From dandrews at visi.com Tue Feb 1 02:08:15 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale Message-ID: > > > >I have the following items for sale: > > > * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition > >Comes with carrying case and charger > >Asking $4,000 or best offer > * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, > running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger > >Asking $2,000 or best offer > * BrailleNote QT 32 > >Several cells of display need some repairs > >Running Keysoft 5.1 > >Asking $100 > > > >To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: > >stephendecker at comcast.net > >Phone: 612-655-1372 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue Feb 1 14:13:41 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > Liz > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > read the description of the research study below. > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be > able to tell who participated. > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for > your willingness to be interviewed. > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out > or rewritten. > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > participation in the study. > > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Tue Feb 1 18:15:29 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 13:15:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training Message-ID: <4D484DC1.5040906@gmail.com> Hi You can get certified online at www.blindtraining.com I think the website is called. or you can go to lions world services for the blind and get certified there. Josh From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 1 21:06:33 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 16:06:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training In-Reply-To: <4D484DC1.5040906@gmail.com> References: <4D484DC1.5040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Josh. Jorge On Feb 1, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > You can get certified online at www.blindtraining.com I think the website is called. or you can go to lions world services for the blind and get certified there. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Feb 1 22:15:33 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 16:15:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a more substantial amount. I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they want to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two cents. Bridgit P From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 1 22:38:39 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:38:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Second that. I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people seem to have when taking this survey. Jorge On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they > are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? > Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily > view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. > > It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people > understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in > this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind > folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a more > substantial amount. > > I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the > phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as > though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, > but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they want > to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two cents. > > Bridgit P > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Tue Feb 1 23:02:46 2011 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 18:02:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I got the email I sent it to the circular file and was kind of hoping for it to die a natural death and not be revived by endless chatter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey > Second that. > > I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people > seem to have when taking this survey. > > > Jorge > > > On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > >> I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they >> are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? >> Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily >> view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. >> >> It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people >> understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in >> this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind >> folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a more >> substantial amount. >> >> I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the >> phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as >> though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, >> but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they want >> to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two cents. >> >> Bridgit P >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Feb 1 23:20:52 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 18:20:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <20110201232052.16601.46841@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> FYI: This particular topic has nothing to do with blindness or NABS. Please let it die. Respectfully, Jedi Moerke NABS List Chair Original message: > When I got the email I sent it to the circular file and was kind of hoping > for it to die a natural death and not be revived by endless chatter. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey >> Second that. >> I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people >> seem to have when taking this survey. >> Jorge >> On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they >>> are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? >>> Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily >>> view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. >>> It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people >>> understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in >>> this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind >>> folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a more >>> substantial amount. >>> I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the >>> phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as >>> though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, >>> but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they want >>> to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two cents. >>> Bridgit P >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 2 00:03:12 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 19:03:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: <20110201232052.16601.46841@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> References: <20110201232052.16601.46841@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: I wondered why they'd survey blind people. But I'd get more information before assuming anything and participating. It doesn't bother me too much they want to survey blind people, but I thought the age sample was very narrow. How will people learn our views or that we're normal if they don't investigate us? Take it if you want or just leave it; I am too old to participate so just deleted it. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jedi Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:20 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey FYI: This particular topic has nothing to do with blindness or NABS. Please let it die. Respectfully, Jedi Moerke NABS List Chair Original message: > When I got the email I sent it to the circular file and was kind of hoping > for it to die a natural death and not be revived by endless chatter. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jorge Paez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge > survey >> Second that. >> I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people >> seem to have when taking this survey. >> Jorge >> On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>> I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they >>> are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? >>> Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily >>> view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. >>> It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people >>> understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in >>> this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind >>> folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a more >>> substantial amount. >>> I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the >>> phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as >>> though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, >>> but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they want >>> to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two cents. >>> Bridgit P >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Feb 2 01:13:16 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 20:13:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sakai Message-ID: <7DB28C0EC0084DADBA52AED77F8FF504@SerenaPC> Hi all, Have any of you used a website called Sakai to take an online quiz? When I tried to tonight, Jaws read the questions, but, when I tried to type, Jaws wouldn't let me! It simply moved the cursor to another part of the page. I guess, Jaws didn't acknowledge forms mode. I tried pressing enter to make it do so, but that didn't work. I ended up asking the prof. to simply email me the quiz and am sure she will. Is there anything the Rutgers tech staff could do to fix this problem? (The actual Sakai site I'm using is through Rutgers, sakai.rutgers.edu.) Thanks, Serena From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Feb 2 01:39:58 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:39:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <20110202013958.19264.46865@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Weird. I didn't know they were specifically surveying blind people. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > I wondered why they'd survey blind people. But I'd get more information > before assuming anything and participating. It doesn't bother me too much > they want to survey blind people, but I thought the age sample was very > narrow. How will people learn our views or that we're normal if they don't > investigate us? > Take it if you want or just leave it; I am too old to participate so just > deleted it. > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Jedi > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:20 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey > FYI: This particular topic has nothing to do with blindness or NABS. > Please let it die. > Respectfully, > Jedi Moerke > NABS List Chair > Original message: >> When I got the email I sent it to the circular file and was kind of hoping >> for it to die a natural death and not be revived by endless chatter. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jorge Paez" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge >> survey >>> Second that. >>> I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people >>> seem to have when taking this survey. >>> Jorge >>> On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>> I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they >>>> are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? >>>> Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily >>>> view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. >>>> It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people >>>> understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in >>>> this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind >>>> folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a more >>>> substantial amount. >>>> I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the >>>> phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as >>>> though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, >>>> but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they want >>>> to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two cents. >>>> Bridgit P >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Wed Feb 2 02:07:05 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 20:07:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just posted the information. I by no means meant to spark any controversy. I figured if it pertained to people, they would respond, and if not, there is always the Delete key. Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 02:44:23 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:44:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: <20110202013958.19264.46865@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> References: <20110202013958.19264.46865@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Guys, it's a study. They're just pilot testing their survey. If you don't want to take it, don't, but don't get up in arms because some researcher is trying to answer a research question you feel certain you already know the answer to. that isn't how we find answers. It's how we push opinions, and that is not what we want people doing when they determine things about the blind. Science is beautifully self correcting. If it's true that the young blind population is no different in terms of level of sex education than the sighted population, they'll see this in due time once people start giving them data. ALL populations get studied at some point or another. It would only be unethical if you guys were not given the information you were given, and the opportunity to refuse to participate. So either do it or don't, but don't pitch a fit over it. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Jedi wrote: > Weird. I didn't know they were specifically surveying blind people. > > Respectfully Submitted > > Original message: > > I wondered why they'd survey blind people. But I'd get more information >> before assuming anything and participating. It doesn't bother me too much >> they want to survey blind people, but I thought the age sample was very >> narrow. How will people learn our views or that we're normal if they >> don't >> investigate us? >> Take it if you want or just leave it; I am too old to participate so just >> deleted it. >> > > Ashley >> > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Jedi >> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:20 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge >> survey >> > > FYI: This particular topic has nothing to do with blindness or NABS. >> Please let it die. >> > > Respectfully, >> Jedi Moerke >> NABS List Chair >> > > Original message: >> >>> When I got the email I sent it to the circular file and was kind of >>> hoping >>> for it to die a natural death and not be revived by endless chatter. >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:38 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge >>> survey >>> >> > > Second that. >>>> >>> > I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people >>>> seem to have when taking this survey. >>>> >>> > > Jorge >>>> >>> > > On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >>>> >>> > I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they >>>>> are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? >>>>> Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily >>>>> view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. >>>>> >>>> > It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people >>>>> understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in >>>>> this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind >>>>> folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a >>>>> more >>>>> substantial amount. >>>>> >>>> > I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the >>>>> phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as >>>>> though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, >>>>> but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they >>>>> want >>>>> to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two >>>>> cents. >>>>> >>>> > Bridgit P >>>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>>> >>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >> > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 02:49:31 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:49:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They probably aren't trying to find out WHEN students gain the knowledge, but rather if they have it at all by this particular age when one presumably has finished high school and possibly had some sex education. If you have questions about their methodology, they did provide contact information. Speaking as a researcher, I would always answer participant questions about the methodology of the study ***IF it would not interfere with the collection of accurate data. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Jewel S. wrote: > Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited > age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. > They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when > students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will > not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... > > On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > > > > > Liz > > > > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine > the > > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited > to > > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind > or > > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for > participation > > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your > name, > > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your > telephone > > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate > that > > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make > contact > > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you > are > > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the > interview, > > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > > read the description of the research study below. > > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in > being > > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you > can > > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind > and > > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, > we > > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are > written > > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us > your > > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one > except > > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside > of > > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will > be > > able to tell who participated. > > > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you > are > > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation > for > > your willingness to be interviewed. > > > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order > that > > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial > run. > > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to > help > > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown > out > > or rewritten. > > > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, > that > > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then > we > > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or > not > > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > > > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by > telephone > > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I > have > > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > > participation in the study. > > > > Thank you very much. > > Sincerely, > > Gaylen Kapperman > > Professor and Coordinator > > Visual Disabilities Program > > Department of Teaching and Learning > > Northern Illinois University > > DeKalb, IL 60115 > > 815-753-8453 > > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > email: > > > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > > > Follow me on Twitter: > > > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From aadkins7 at verizon.net Wed Feb 2 03:03:12 2011 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 22:03:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: FW: [wvsb-alum-chat] Blind Driver Challenge Message-ID: <83D13E2EAB544D2680E58C4F2A9EBC7F@AnitaAdkinsPC> Just FYI. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Swauger" To: "Anita Adkins" Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:22 PM Subject: FW: FW: [wvsb-alum-chat] Blind Driver Challenge > > karen > > Original Message: > From: "Karen Swauger" > To: "BRUCE" > Subject: FW: [wvsb-alum-chat] Blind Driver Challenge > Date: > 2/1/2011 8:21:30 PM > > > karen > > Original Message: > From: "Atlantic Breeze" > To: "wvsb alum Chat" > Subject: [wvsb-alum-chat] Blind Driver Challenge > Date: > Tue, 1 Feb 2011 13:17:52 -0500 > > Hi all, > > Not sure if any of you will want to download this and listen but sending > anyway in case you do. > Got it from a group I'm on. > > This is the NFB blind driver challenge from Daytona Beach, Florida when > the > first time ever the track was navigated by a man who was blind in the car > > that > the blind can drive. It also includes the conference that was given after > > the event. It's a pretty awesome high quality recording in stereo. > > http://www.sendspace.com/file/39qb29 > > > > > From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Wed Feb 2 04:29:48 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2011 20:29:48 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] message regarding Independence 2011 Message-ID: <2sVn1g0082PutTY05sVoFu@netzero.net> Hello fellow listers. Has anyone here attended the youth summer program "Independence" from Blind Industries and services of Maryland? Did anyone attend the independence 2010 last summer? If so, can you tell me any experiences you've had about the program? Is it a program worth going to? Also, if you have attended any other summer program for the blind, like for example at your local or state agencies, are those summer programs better/worse than the Independence 2010? (I am not sure, but I believe they've started this program last year please correct me if I'm wrong.) But yes, any comments are welcome and I don't care if I have to move out of my house for 7 weeks and go 3000 miles away from home, but I still want to get independent living services and orientation and mobility. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Humberto From cnaylor073 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 05:39:05 2011 From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:39:05 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] l? Message-ID: Hi all, I use web mail for GMail and sometimes when I can't log on the site to check my mail. I have a laptop, and I have to go on the desktop to check my mail from the site. Anybody have this problem with GMail where it keeps asking you for your username and password even though you put in the right info? From cnaylor073 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 05:41:55 2011 From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:41:55 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? Message-ID: Hi all, Are there other sites you all use to download books besides the library of congress and bookshare? I'd like to check out other book sites. From graduate56 at juno.com Wed Feb 2 05:57:06 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 22:57:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE References: Message-ID: <81E7DC38E51B4FE990B5B4081A2039CA@melissa> Martha. I took this exam. It is on the computer. However, you do get a braille supplement for the math part. They will also let you try out the computerized practice test, and if you still prefer braille tests it will be provided. Good luck. Blessings and kind regards Melissa Green "Just like a sunbeam can't separate itself from the sun, and a wave can't separate itself from the ocean, we can't separate ourselves from one another. We are all part of a vast sea of love, one indivisible divine mind." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martha Harris" To: Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:04 PM Subject: [nabs-l] GRE > Hi Everyone, > For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did you use. I > prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think it would be helpful to > have the quantitative part in Braille. > > Thanks, > Martha > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > > From graduate56 at juno.com Wed Feb 2 06:21:33 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 23:21:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey References: Message-ID: <21E6F877173A47C0B0403D55B9BF34A6@melissa> I think that this can be a useful peiece of research. Many research studies on this issue portray blind people as Asexual, or with phenomenal and or strange sexual habbets. Remember the blind guy that felt peoples butts, or the study that said that blind people kiss differently. I could go on and on. Just look at some of the old banquet speeches. I hope that some people will apply to participate in this study. If I was the right age that they are asking for. I would do it. JMHO Blessings and kind regards Melissa Green "Just like a sunbeam can't separate itself from the sun, and a wave can't separate itself from the ocean, we can't separate ourselves from one another. We are all part of a vast sea of love, one indivisible divine mind." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Bottner" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey >I just posted the information. I by no means meant to spark any >controversy. > I figured if it pertained to people, they would respond, and if not, there > is always the Delete key. > > Liz > > email: > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > Visit my LiveJournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > > From jbahm at pcdesk.net Wed Feb 2 08:14:54 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 01:14:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] integration question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D49127E.7060906@pcdesk.net> Min, To answer your first question, there are formulas which you can use to evaluate these integrals if you are doing so over a definite interval. I don't remember them off the top of my head, but I know there are five of them you are likely to encounter. They are: left rectangle, mid rectangle, right rectangle, Trapezoidal, and simptson's rule. Each has a formula you can use, as well as an equation for determining the amount of error. Simpson's rule is the most accurate, but it requires computation of a fourth derivative in order to determine the error so it isn't always practical. Anyway, if you know those formulas, you can use the method. The left, mid, and right rectangle are easy because it's the Remon sum equation, with slight variations for each of the three. The other two, Trapezoidal and simpson's rule, you'll just have to memorize those if you choose to use them. You'll also have to know the equation for error in approximation for each method. To answer your second question, if you choose to go on in mathematics, and you are going to use a computer to read and write your math, I suggest you take up the LaTeX type setting system. This will do two things for you. First, it will allow you to generate accessible math which you can both read and work on. Second, you can use LaTeX source to generate something which a teacher, professor, or coleague will find readable and which uses the symbols which are used in the field. The trouble with using word is that if you try to generate things so they look the same as what a sighted person would expect to see, more than likely your screen reader will not read it correctly for you any more. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Joe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 487 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jbahm at pcdesk.net Wed Feb 2 08:17:50 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 01:17:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D49132E.1020700@pcdesk.net> Christina, Depends on what type of books you are looking for. Are we talking textbooks, pleasure reading, or both? Joe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 487 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Feb 2 13:08:26 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 08:08:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] message regarding Independence 2011 In-Reply-To: <2sVn1g0082PutTY05sVoFu@netzero.net> References: <2sVn1g0082PutTY05sVoFu@netzero.net> Message-ID: Humberto: I don't know about Independence, since I didn't go to it. But be sure to check out Life 101, from BLIND INC. their site is http://www.blindinc.org They're based in Minneapolis Minnesota. I went to their program last year. Its very helpful and really made me independent, not only did they teach me the stuff, but they forced me to think out of the box, which came in handy in a lot of places--specially while I was at the convention. Jorge On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:29 PM, humberto wrote: > Hello fellow listers. > > Has anyone here attended the youth summer program "Independence" from Blind Industries and services of Maryland? Did anyone attend the independence 2010 last summer? If so, can you tell me any experiences you've had about the program? Is it a program worth going to? > Also, if you have attended any other summer program for the blind, like for example at your local or state agencies, are those summer programs better/worse than the Independence 2010? (I am not sure, but I believe they've started this program last year please correct me if I'm wrong.) > But yes, any comments are welcome and I don't care if I have to move out of my house for 7 weeks and go 3000 miles away from home, but I still want to get independent living services and orientation and mobility. > > Thank you for your time. > > Sincerely, Humberto > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 13:24:53 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:24:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? In-Reply-To: <4D49132E.1020700@pcdesk.net> References: <4D49132E.1020700@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: For book sin text files (that can be read with a screenreader or on a book player equipped with a reader (such as the Victor Reader Stream), I definitely suggest the Internet Archives. Just do a google search for it. It has a ton of copyright-free books, many of them classics. There is also a reigious archives...anyone know what it's called? It has relgioius texts for most any religion, from Christianity to Buddhism to Wicca. And you didn't mention RFBD (Recordings for the Blind and Dyslexic, www.rfbd.org). Do you know that one? It's textbooks mainly, but I've seen other books on there also. Audible.com is a great site. Their recordings are amazing, very professionally made. They have a subscription fee, but it's well worth it in my opinion. Let's see...have you looked at your local library's website? Many libraries these days are offering downloadable audio books on loan. I know my local library does, though most of their downloadable books are children's boks, so I don't use it much. There are qutie a few downloadable book sites. If you do an internet search for "audio books"+downloadable, you should find quite a few of them. You can also do a search for "downloadable books"+free, and that should give you a number of books as well. Good luck! On 2/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Christina, > Depends on what type of books you are looking for. Are we talking > textbooks, pleasure reading, or both? > Joe > > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 13:31:43 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:31:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] l? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The only time I have this problem is when, below the login button, it is requesting a Capcha verification. Have you checked for this? It's below the login button, which means that it is easy to miss with a screenreader, but it will just keep sending you back to the login page without any error message that I've noticed until you put in the Capcha verification. Check for this, and if it's not that, I'm not sure whwat it is, as that's the only time I've had trouble with it not accepting my login information. Oh, and if you have a private computer, I highly recommend the automatic login option. I use it, and rarely have to put my information in (just my password from time to time). But I'm the only person who even touches my netbook, so I feel I am safe in using it. I do not recommend using the auto-login if anyone else uses your computer that you dont' want reading your e-mail! On 2/2/11, Christina Mitchell wrote: > Hi all, > I use web mail for GMail and sometimes when I can't log on the site to > check my mail. I have a laptop, and I have to go on the desktop to > check my mail from the site. Anybody have this problem with GMail > where it keeps asking you for your username and password even though > you put in the right info? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 13:34:40 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:34:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sakai In-Reply-To: <7DB28C0EC0084DADBA52AED77F8FF504@SerenaPC> References: <7DB28C0EC0084DADBA52AED77F8FF504@SerenaPC> Message-ID: It may be that the edit boxes are the non-accessible type. You should contact the company who runs the site and inform them of the problem. They need to work on it quickly to fix it. I have not used that site, but I've come across edit forms that do not recognize the virtual cursor before. I much prefer the new Blackboard quizzes, and Moodle has an easy format also. On 2/1/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Hi all, > > > > Have any of you used a website called Sakai to take an online quiz? When I > tried to tonight, Jaws read the questions, but, when I tried to type, Jaws > wouldn't let me! It simply moved the cursor to another part of the page. I > guess, Jaws didn't acknowledge forms mode. I tried pressing enter to make > it do so, but that didn't work. I ended up asking the prof. to simply email > me the quiz and am sure she will. Is there anything the Rutgers tech staff > could do to fix this problem? (The actual Sakai site I'm using is through > Rutgers, sakai.rutgers.edu.) > > > > Thanks, > > Serena > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From blind.biker94 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 13:36:41 2011 From: blind.biker94 at gmail.com (Zach Dreicer Griego) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 06:36:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] l? Message-ID: <4d495e22.8e7cdc0a.55b3.028b@mx.google.com> yes, you have not checked the box "remember me." ----- Original Message ----- From: Christina Mitchell References: <4D49132E.1020700@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <10CB48B4-D974-497C-858B-6B27AC89A936@mac.com> The religious archives--at least the one I found threw google is: Jorge http://www.sacred-texts.com/world.htm On Feb 2, 2011, at 8:24 AM, Jewel S. wrote: > For book sin text files (that can be read with a screenreader or on a > book player equipped with a reader (such as the Victor Reader Stream), > I definitely suggest the Internet Archives. Just do a google search > for it. It has a ton of copyright-free books, many of them classics. > There is also a reigious archives...anyone know what it's called? It > has relgioius texts for most any religion, from Christianity to > Buddhism to Wicca. And you didn't mention RFBD (Recordings for the > Blind and Dyslexic, www.rfbd.org). Do you know that one? It's > textbooks mainly, but I've seen other books on there also. Audible.com > is a great site. Their recordings are amazing, very professionally > made. They have a subscription fee, but it's well worth it in my > opinion. Let's see...have you looked at your local library's website? > Many libraries these days are offering downloadable audio books on > loan. I know my local library does, though most of their downloadable > books are children's boks, so I don't use it much. > > There are qutie a few downloadable book sites. If you do an internet > search for "audio books"+downloadable, you should find quite a few of > them. You can also do a search for "downloadable books"+free, and that > should give you a number of books as well. Good luck! > > On 2/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: >> Christina, >> Depends on what type of books you are looking for. Are we talking >> textbooks, pleasure reading, or both? >> Joe >> >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From cnaylor073 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 15:15:17 2011 From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:15:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? Message-ID: <4d4974f5.d44de50a.4a8c.ffffaeb5@mx.google.com> I mean pleasure reading books. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph C. Lininger Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 3:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? Christina, Depends on what type of books you are looking for. Are we talking textbooks, pleasure reading, or both? Joe From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 16:13:02 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:13:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? In-Reply-To: <4d4974f5.d44de50a.4a8c.ffffaeb5@mx.google.com> References: <4d4974f5.d44de50a.4a8c.ffffaeb5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yep, that's the one. Sacred Text Archives. On 2/2/11, Christina Mitchell wrote: > I mean pleasure reading books. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph C. Lininger > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 3:17 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? > > Christina, > Depends on what type of books you are looking for. Are we talking > textbooks, pleasure reading, or both? > Joe > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From drummer_grl_91 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 2 18:20:23 2011 From: drummer_grl_91 at yahoo.com (angela dehart) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:20:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <446251.52642.qm@web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex lives of blind people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so screw your 131 questions. This is an insult to me as a blind individual and I cannot for the life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. Angela ________________________________ From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey (Liz Bottner) 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) 7. integration question (minh ha) 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey (Jewel S.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 From: Cindy Bennett To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large print supplements come with your voiced GRE. Cindy On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: > Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice. > In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in > planning for this exam. > Thank you. > > > --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: > >> From: Martha Harris >> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >> Hi Everyone, >> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did >> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think >> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in >> Braille. >> >> Thanks, >> Martha >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >>m >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all: Just wondering, how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? Any college courses you need to take? Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach Window Eyes, etc? Thanks, Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 From: Liz Bottner To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. Liz We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please read the description of the research study below. And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. Please read the following paragraphs carefully. With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We will record all of that information including your name and address, but please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be able to tell who participated. The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for your willingness to be interviewed. The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out or rewritten. We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. Please be sure to read the following statement. By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my participation in the study. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Gaylen Kapperman Professor and Coordinator Visual Disabilities Program Department of Teaching and Learning Northern Illinois University DeKalb, IL 60115 815-753-8453 gkapperman at niu.edu email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 From: Brian Wooten To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any suggestions? -- Brian ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all: Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge Rally and launch last weekend. If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my technology show? Please let me know. If you'd rather not do it in audio, we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog. Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 From: minh ha To: blindmath at nfbnet.org Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] integration question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hii, I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s capabilities, so maybe it does? Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this notation as well? Thanks so much for your help Minh -- Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 From: "Melissa " To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at least 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. Until biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, that being said, the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has previously taken the course. They can use work study to pay this person. With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you. For example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific setting, you instruct the to do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for recording and interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what information is pertinent and what is not. I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets. I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science nerd. Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions. Please though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows. Warmly, Melissa Melissa Riley jamandgab at izoom.net riley365 at umn.edu -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoom.ne t ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 From: David Andrews To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > >I have the following items for sale: > > > * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition > >Comes with carrying case and charger > >Asking $4,000 or best offer > * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, > running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger > >Asking $2,000 or best offer > * BrailleNote QT 32 > >Several cells of display need some repairs > >Running Keysoft 5.1 > >Asking $100 > > > >To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: > >stephendecker at comcast.net > >Phone: 612-655-1372 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 From: "Jewel S." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > Liz > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > read the description of the research study below. > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be > able to tell who participated. > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for > your willingness to be interviewed. > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out > or rewritten. > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > participation in the study. > > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >m > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 ************************************* From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 19:18:00 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:18:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Just A Thought In-Reply-To: <446251.52642.qm@web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <446251.52642.qm@web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <09BB0E7FD1244E36A03B71B2A8A5B915@Rufus> On January 7 Debbie Wunder wrote to the list asking for tips on how to better engage young people in what could be considered an aging affiliate. No, we may all not live in Missouri, but yes, it is a common problem that impacts the longevity of the organization. I can count the number of responses the post received. Fast forward a few weeks, and the sex survey has stirred up a pretty consistent response rate. Priorities? Relevance? I don't know the impetus, but for me, it's something worth mulling over. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 19:21:37 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:21:37 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: <446251.52642.qm@web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <446251.52642.qm@web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Angela and list, While I do find the concept of this study interesting, I would like to throw out a few thoughts of my own, if I may. Yes, it is obviously true that blind people have sex and sexual desires, much like any other human being. But the question that may be worth thinking about is, how do we go about getting the information? How do we find out about sex? are we told of it by our parents? by the teachers at the schools for the blind? on T.V., Books, Media? how do we visualize it? Is Sex and sexuality something that can be depicted in a tactual model, or illistrated in a braille book? All I am suggesting, is that there are many questions surrounding sex that don't really have to do with "do you know what goes where?" If I was within the age range of the study (and I am not anymore), I would ask myself if the questions that I'm being asked are really worthwhile questions that help people to be better educated about blindness and what we really can do, or if it's just a study that has no real meaning to it. I would also wonder where the findings will go, where will they be printed, will the consumer organizations (NFB, ACB) get a hold of this data? These are just some thoughtsI am just allowing to surface for now. Thanks, Darian On 2/2/11, angela dehart wrote: > > I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex lives of > blind > people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so screw your 131 > questions. This is an insult to me as a blind individual and I cannot for > the > life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. > Angela > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) > 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) > 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Liz Bottner) > 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) > 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) > 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) > 7. integration question (minh ha) > 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) > 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) > 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Jewel S.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 > From: Cindy Bennett > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large > print supplements come with your voiced GRE. > > Cindy > > On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: >> Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam >> twice. >> In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in >> planning for this exam. >> Thank you. >> >> >> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: >> >>> From: Martha Harris >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >>> Hi Everyone, >>> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did >>> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think >>> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in >>> Braille. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Martha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >>>m >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering, > how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? > Any college courses you need to take? > Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate > certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to > teach > Window Eyes, etc? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 > From: Liz Bottner > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all, > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > Liz > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > read the description of the research study below. > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be > able to tell who participated. > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for > your willingness to be interviewed. > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out > or rewritten. > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > participation in the study. > > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 > From: Brian Wooten > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science > field, > but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview > Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge > Rally > and launch last weekend. > > If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my > technology > show? > > > Please let me know. > > > If you'd rather not do it in audio, > we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog. > > > > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 > From: minh ha > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] integration question > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hii, > > I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation > Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was > wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to > attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my > teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators > so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and > trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems > that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles > out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time > and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but > I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s > capabilities, so maybe it does? > Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in > Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using > Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this > notation as well? > > Thanks so much for your help > > Minh > > > -- > Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 > From: "Melissa " > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of > Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at least > 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and > physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. Until > biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was > the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, that being said, > the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has > previously taken the course. They can use work study to pay this person. > With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to > what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you. For > example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific > setting, you instruct the to do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare > the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for > recording and interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the > course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what > information is pertinent and what is not. > I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your > professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets. > I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science > nerd. Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions. Please > though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually > impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows. > Warmly, > Melissa > Melissa Riley > jamandgab at izoom.net > riley365 at umn.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m >> ac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoom.ne > t > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 > From: David Andrews > To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >> >> >> >>I have the following items for sale: >> >> >> * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition >> >>Comes with carrying case and charger >> >>Asking $4,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, >> running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger >> >>Asking $2,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote QT 32 >> >>Several cells of display need some repairs >> >>Running Keysoft 5.1 >> >>Asking $100 >> >> >> >>To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: >> >>stephendecker at comcast.net >> >>Phone: 612-655-1372 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 > From: "Jewel S." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited > age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. > They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when > students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will > not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... > > On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. >> >> >> >> Liz >> >> >> We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine >> the >> level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually >> disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to >> participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind >> or >> severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for >> participation >> in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if >> you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an >> e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your >> name, >> age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual >> disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone >> number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that >> in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will >> forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make >> contact >> with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you >> are >> male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he >> will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, >> we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please >> read the description of the research study below. >> And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the >> requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in >> being >> included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to >> participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you >> can >> help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. >> >> Please read the following paragraphs carefully. >> With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a >> research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind >> and >> visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, >> we >> are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are >> written >> properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us >> your >> answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one >> except >> the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside >> of >> the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate >> whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We >> will record all of that information including your name and address, but >> please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to >> delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will >> be >> able to tell who participated. >> >> The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the >> interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to >> guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the >> interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not >> understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you >> are >> done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation >> for >> your willingness to be interviewed. >> >> The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that >> we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and >> young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't >> trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial >> run. >> We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to >> help >> us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown >> out >> or rewritten. >> >> We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this >> study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will >> happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that >> is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we >> will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or >> not >> to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. >> >> If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to >> contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by >> e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by >> telephone >> at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. >> >> Please be sure to read the following statement. >> By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail >> indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have >> read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my >> participation in the study. >> >> Thank you very much. >> Sincerely, >> Gaylen Kapperman >> Professor and Coordinator >> Visual Disabilities Program >> Department of Teaching and Learning >> Northern Illinois University >> DeKalb, IL 60115 >> 815-753-8453 >> gkapperman at niu.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> email: >> >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: >> >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>m >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > ************************************* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Feb 2 19:45:03 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:45:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <20110202194503.26068.62107@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> I didn't immediately know that this survey regarded blind youth. I just thought it was some random item that someone put up there for God knows why. Well, we all know what they say about assumptions, right? In any case, it is true that the blind need appropriate sex education just like anyone else, and the topic is especially important because society often thinks that disabled folks don't or can't have a desire to procreate or that we shouldn't procreate. Likewise, folks with disabilities are often seen as aesexual beings which is far from true. Finally, we have access issues to talk about since science of most types are still largely inaccessible to us in public schools unless we extend considerable effort toward accessibility. All that said, I do encourage that the appropriate people take the survey as it's necessary information. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Guys, it's a study. They're just pilot testing their survey. If you don't > want to take it, don't, but don't get up in arms because some researcher is > trying to answer a research question you feel certain you already know the > answer to. that isn't how we find answers. It's how we push opinions, and > that is not what we want people doing when they determine things about the > blind. Science is beautifully self correcting. If it's true that the young > blind population is no different in terms of level of sex education than the > sighted population, they'll see this in due time once people start giving > them data. ALL populations get studied at some point or another. It would > only be unethical if you guys were not given the information you were given, > and the opportunity to refuse to participate. So either do it or don't, but > don't pitch a fit over it. > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Jedi wrote: >> Weird. I didn't know they were specifically surveying blind people. >> Respectfully Submitted >> Original message: >> I wondered why they'd survey blind people. But I'd get more information >>> before assuming anything and participating. It doesn't bother me too much >>> they want to survey blind people, but I thought the age sample was very >>> narrow. How will people learn our views or that we're normal if they >>> don't >>> investigate us? >>> Take it if you want or just leave it; I am too old to participate so just >>> deleted it. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jedi >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:20 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge >>> survey >> FYI: This particular topic has nothing to do with blindness or NABS. >>> Please let it die. >> Respectfully, >>> Jedi Moerke >>> NABS List Chair >> Original message: >>>> When I got the email I sent it to the circular file and was kind of >>>> hoping >>>> for it to die a natural death and not be revived by endless chatter. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:38 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge >>>> survey >> Second that. >> I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people >>>>> seem to have when taking this survey. >> Jorge >> On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they >>>>>> are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? >>>>>> Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily >>>>>> view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. >> It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people >>>>>> understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in >>>>>> this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind >>>>>> folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a >>>>>> more >>>>>> substantial amount. >> I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the >>>>>> phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as >>>>>> though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, >>>>>> but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they >>>>>> want >>>>>> to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two >>>>>> cents. >> Bridgit P >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Feb 2 19:53:42 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:53:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <20110202195342.26120.15633@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Not having looked at the survey myself, I do think it's a good idea to assess what blind people know about sex. This isn't to say that we know squat because we're blind, or that we know more than most, but that we may be at a disadvantage in our aquisition of this kind of knowledge due to accessibility issues and social perceptions. LGBT youth have the same kinds of issues but in a different guise. Now whether or not the researchers are aware of the real reasons why a blind student may not have appropriate sex ed is anyone's guess. They may, like many researchers, be morbidly curious because they're specially surveying the blind population. Even if that is true, someone from our research camp could take whatever data is collected, expand on it, interpret it appropriately, and put the research to good use that it may appropriately serve to create the necessary education for our blind youth that's equal to that of the sighted. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex lives > of blind > people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so screw your 131 > questions. This is an insult to me as a blind individual and I cannot for the > life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. > Angela > ________________________________ > From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > Today's Topics: > 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) > 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) > 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Liz Bottner) > 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) > 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) > 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) > 7. integration question (minh ha) > 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) > 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) > 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Jewel S.) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 > From: Cindy Bennett > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large > print supplements come with your voiced GRE. > Cindy > On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: >> Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice. >> In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in >> planning for this exam. >> Thank you. >> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: >>> From: Martha Harris >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >>> Hi Everyone, >>> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did >>> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think >>> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in >>> Braille. >>> Thanks, >>> Martha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >>> m >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > ------------------------------ > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > Hi all: > Just wondering, > how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? > Any college courses you need to take? > Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate > certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach > Window Eyes, etc? > Thanks, > Jorge > ------------------------------ > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 > From: Liz Bottner > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Hi all, > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > Liz > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > read the description of the research study below. > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be > able to tell who participated. > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for > your willingness to be interviewed. > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out > or rewritten. > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > participation in the study. > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > email: > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > Visit my LiveJournal: > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > ------------------------------ > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 > From: Brian Wooten > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Hello, > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > -- > Brian > ------------------------------ > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science > field, > but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: >> Hello, >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> -- >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > ------------------------------ > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview > Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > Hi all: > Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge Rally > and launch last weekend. > If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my technology > show? > Please let me know. > If you'd rather not do it in audio, > we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog. > Jorge > ------------------------------ > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 > From: minh ha > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] integration question > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > Hii, > I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation > Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was > wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to > attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my > teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators > so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and > trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems > that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles > out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time > and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but > I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s > capabilities, so maybe it does? > Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in > Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using > Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this > notation as well? > Thanks so much for your help > Minh > -- > Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." > ------------------------------ > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 > From: "Melissa " > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of > Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at least > 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and > physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. Until > biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was > the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, that being said, > the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has > previously taken the course. They can use work study to pay this person. > With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to > what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you. For > example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific > setting, you instruct the to do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare > the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for > recording and interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the > course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what > information is pertinent and what is not. > I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your > professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets. > I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science > nerd. Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions. Please > though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually > impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows. > Warmly, > Melissa > Melissa Riley > jamandgab at izoom.net > riley365 at umn.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: >> Hello, >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> -- >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m >> ac.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoom.ne > t > ------------------------------ > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 > From: David Andrews > To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> I have the following items for sale: >> * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition >> Comes with carrying case and charger >> Asking $4,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, >> running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger >> Asking $2,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote QT 32 >> Several cells of display need some repairs >> Running Keysoft 5.1 >> Asking $100 >> To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: >> stephendecker at comcast.net >> Phone: 612-655-1372 > ------------------------------ > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 > From: "Jewel S." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited > age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. > They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when > students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will > not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... > On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: >> Hi all, >> I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. >> Liz >> We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the >> level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually >> disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to >> participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or >> severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation >> in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if >> you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an >> e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, >> age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual >> disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone >> number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that >> in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will >> forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact >> with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are >> male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he >> will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, >> we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please >> read the description of the research study below. >> And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the >> requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being >> included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to >> participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can >> help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. >> Please read the following paragraphs carefully. >> With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a >> research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and >> visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we >> are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written >> properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your >> answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except >> the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of >> the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate >> whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We >> will record all of that information including your name and address, but >> please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to >> delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be >> able to tell who participated. >> The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the >> interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to >> guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the >> interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not >> understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are >> done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for >> your willingness to be interviewed. >> The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that >> we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and >> young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't >> trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. >> We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help >> us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out >> or rewritten. >> We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this >> study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will >> happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that >> is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we >> will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not >> to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. >> If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to >> contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by >> e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone >> at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. >> Please be sure to read the following statement. >> By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail >> indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have >> read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my >> participation in the study. >> Thank you very much. >> Sincerely, >> Gaylen Kapperman >> Professor and Coordinator >> Visual Disabilities Program >> Department of Teaching and Learning >> Northern Illinois University >> DeKalb, IL 60115 >> 815-753-8453 >> gkapperman at niu.edu >> email: >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> Follow me on Twitter: >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> m > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > ************************************* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 21:17:10 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (blackbyrdfly at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:17:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: <446251.52642.qm@web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <446251.52642.qm@web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Then don't participate. It's that simple. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2011, at 1:20 PM, angela dehart wrote: > > I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex lives of blind > people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so screw your 131 > questions. This is an insult to me as a blind individual and I cannot for the > life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. > Angela > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) > 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) > 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Liz Bottner) > 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) > 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) > 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) > 7. integration question (minh ha) > 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) > 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) > 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Jewel S.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 > From: Cindy Bennett > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large > print supplements come with your voiced GRE. > > Cindy > > On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: >> Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice. >> In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in >> planning for this exam. >> Thank you. >> >> >> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: >> >>> From: Martha Harris >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >>> Hi Everyone, >>> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did >>> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think >>> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in >>> Braille. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Martha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >>> m >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering, > how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? > Any college courses you need to take? > Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate > certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach > Window Eyes, etc? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 > From: Liz Bottner > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all, > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > Liz > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > read the description of the research study below. > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be > able to tell who participated. > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for > your willingness to be interviewed. > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out > or rewritten. > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > participation in the study. > > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 > From: Brian Wooten > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science > field, > but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview > Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge Rally > and launch last weekend. > > If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my technology > show? > > > Please let me know. > > > If you'd rather not do it in audio, > we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog. > > > > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 > From: minh ha > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] integration question > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hii, > > I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation > Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was > wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to > attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my > teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators > so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and > trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems > that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles > out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time > and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but > I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s > capabilities, so maybe it does? > Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in > Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using > Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this > notation as well? > > Thanks so much for your help > > Minh > > > -- > Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 > From: "Melissa " > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of > Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at least > 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and > physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. Until > biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was > the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, that being said, > the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has > previously taken the course. They can use work study to pay this person. > With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to > what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you. For > example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific > setting, you instruct the to do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare > the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for > recording and interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the > course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what > information is pertinent and what is not. > I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your > professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets. > I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science > nerd. Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions. Please > though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually > impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows. > Warmly, > Melissa > Melissa Riley > jamandgab at izoom.net > riley365 at umn.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m >> ac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoom.ne > t > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 > From: David Andrews > To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >> >> >> >> I have the following items for sale: >> >> >> * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition >> >> Comes with carrying case and charger >> >> Asking $4,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, >> running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger >> >> Asking $2,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote QT 32 >> >> Several cells of display need some repairs >> >> Running Keysoft 5.1 >> >> Asking $100 >> >> >> >> To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: >> >> stephendecker at comcast.net >> >> Phone: 612-655-1372 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 > From: "Jewel S." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited > age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. > They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when > students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will > not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... > > On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. >> >> >> >> Liz >> >> >> We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the >> level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually >> disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to >> participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or >> severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation >> in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if >> you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an >> e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, >> age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual >> disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone >> number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that >> in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will >> forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact >> with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are >> male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he >> will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, >> we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please >> read the description of the research study below. >> And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the >> requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being >> included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to >> participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can >> help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. >> >> Please read the following paragraphs carefully. >> With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a >> research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and >> visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we >> are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written >> properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your >> answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except >> the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of >> the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate >> whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We >> will record all of that information including your name and address, but >> please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to >> delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be >> able to tell who participated. >> >> The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the >> interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to >> guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the >> interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not >> understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are >> done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for >> your willingness to be interviewed. >> >> The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that >> we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and >> young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't >> trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. >> We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help >> us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out >> or rewritten. >> >> We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this >> study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will >> happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that >> is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we >> will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not >> to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. >> >> If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to >> contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by >> e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone >> at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. >> >> Please be sure to read the following statement. >> By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail >> indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have >> read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my >> participation in the study. >> >> Thank you very much. >> Sincerely, >> Gaylen Kapperman >> Professor and Coordinator >> Visual Disabilities Program >> Department of Teaching and Learning >> Northern Illinois University >> DeKalb, IL 60115 >> 815-753-8453 >> gkapperman at niu.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> email: >> >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: >> >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> m >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > ************************************* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 2 22:14:58 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:14:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I, respectively, fail to see how this is not an issue appropriate for NABS. It was posted on the NABS list, and it is issued to students for consideration. NABS, being a Federation group and email list, has every right to discuss issues, causes and concerns that relate to blindness. I feel placing the notice to begin with was not exactly appropriate for NABS, but I do not think anyone should be concerned about expressing their ideas and opinions. If we follow the argument that this dialogue is wrong for this list, then I think we should no longer post emails about items for sale, or information that does not directly relate to student life. Topics such as this can develop a dialogue that can, and will, lead to a better understanding of our views on blindness-- both on a personal level and a collective level. Respectively, Bridgit Pollpeter From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 22:40:23 2011 From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:40:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Community service call February 13 Message-ID: Hi everyone. It's time for another community service conference call! This time we will be hearing from Conchita Hernandez, who was a 2010 scholarship winner. The information for calling in is below. when: February 13, 7 P.M. ET phone number: (218) 339-3600 passcode 808277. Any questions? Just email this address. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 22:45:15 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:45:15 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm sure that the study was blindness related, fine for the nabs list and that it was just a matter that people needed time to take in all of the information that flooded the list on the topic as of late. Great points were brought up, discussions had, and I'm sure that with the spreading of the word, youth will either take part in, or not take part in the study as they see fit. Much appreciation for the thoughts and contributions! Regards, Darian Smith Board member: National Association of Blind Students On 2/2/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I, respectively, fail to see how this is not an issue appropriate for > NABS. It was posted on the NABS list, and it is issued to students for > consideration. > > NABS, being a Federation group and email list, has every right to > discuss issues, causes and concerns that relate to blindness. I feel > placing the notice to begin with was not exactly appropriate for NABS, > but I do not think anyone should be concerned about expressing their > ideas and opinions. > > If we follow the argument that this dialogue is wrong for this list, > then I think we should no longer post emails about items for sale, or > information that does not directly relate to student life. > > Topics such as this can develop a dialogue that can, and will, lead to a > better understanding of our views on blindness-- both on a personal > level and a collective level. > > Respectively, > Bridgit Pollpeter > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From minh.ha927 at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 01:22:05 2011 From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 20:22:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] integration question In-Reply-To: <4D49127E.7060906@pcdesk.net> References: <4D49127E.7060906@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: Joe, We are studying the different formulas next in our course, and I know the formulas will make things a lot easier to figure out integrals. I just thought for the current problem of drawing rectangles under the curve that there might be a way for me to do it more efficiently. But I guess this is a part of math that I just have to stick it out, no matter how painful. :). As for LaTeX, I heard about it in passing from several people, but I have no idea what it really is and what it can do. I think I'll try and google it and perhaps you can point me in the right direction to find more information about it. Thanks a bunches for your help Minh On 2/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Min, > To answer your first question, there are formulas which you can use to > evaluate these integrals if you are doing so over a definite interval. I > don't remember them off the top of my head, but I know there are five of > them you are likely to encounter. They are: left rectangle, mid > rectangle, right rectangle, Trapezoidal, and simptson's rule. Each has a > formula you can use, as well as an equation for determining the amount > of error. Simpson's rule is the most accurate, but it requires > computation of a fourth derivative in order to determine the error so it > isn't always practical. Anyway, if you know those formulas, you can use > the method. The left, mid, and right rectangle are easy because it's the > Remon sum equation, with slight variations for each of the three. The > other two, Trapezoidal and simpson's rule, you'll just have to memorize > those if you choose to use them. You'll also have to know the equation > for error in approximation for each method. > > To answer your second question, if you choose to go on in mathematics, > and you are going to use a computer to read and write your math, I > suggest you take up the LaTeX type setting system. This will do two > things for you. First, it will allow you to generate accessible math > which you can both read and work on. Second, you can use LaTeX source to > generate something which a teacher, professor, or coleague will find > readable and which uses the symbols which are used in the field. The > trouble with using word is that if you try to generate things so they > look the same as what a sighted person would expect to see, more than > likely your screen reader will not read it correctly for you any more. > > Let me know if I can be of further assistance. > Joe > > -- Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." From missheather at comcast.net Thu Feb 3 02:26:12 2011 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 20:26:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] IRTI NewsClips February 2011 Volume 11 Number 1 Message-ID: <914BD4FEB6294707859A7A723BCD5B10@heathersony> FYI: ----- Original Message ----- From: "IRTI" Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 6:02 PM IRTI NewsClips February 2011 Volume 11 Number 1 Greetings! IRTI is pleased to announce the availability of an exciting new product. Just in are two wireless Perkins style Braille keyboards that support a wide range of devices including: smartphones, Mac, iPhone, iPad, netbook, PC or PDA. Compatible applications and operating systems, including: MobileSpeak Talks Windows Mobile Apple OS 10.5 (Leopard) and 10.6 (Snow Leopard) iPhone version 4, Ipad The Dolphin Pen, Supernova and Pocket Hal, all with a braille keyboard and Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7 as a bluetooth keyboard We have two keyboard models to choose from: The BraillePen Slim Price $299.00 and the BraillePen 12, which includes a built-in 12 Cell Braille Display Price $995.00. For more information about the BraillePen visit these links: For BraillePen visit http://www.irti.net/store/product342.html For BraillePen 12 visit http://www.irti.net/store/product341.html You may also call IRTI at 1 800 322 4784 or 530 274 2090 with your questions. Thank you for taking the time to review this edition of IRTI NewsClips. Subscription and Contact Information You certainly may forward this newsletter in its entirety to others or post it to email lists who would have an interest in it. If you wish to unsubscribe from this newsletter just send an email to info at irti.net with "Unsubscribe NewsClips" in the subject and include your email address. As with all our customer information we do not sell, give, trade or otherwise release your personal information outside of IRTI. To subscribe and receive future issues of IRTI NewsClips send an email to info at irti.net and place "Subscribe NewsClips" in the subject line. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Feb 3 03:00:49 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 22:00:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study Message-ID: <20110203030049.29507.26049@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Gotta keep reading those threads, bridget. I said later on that I had no idea the sex survey had blind folks as its targeted subject pool. That was my mistake and I indicated as such. However, if it didn't have blind people as its target population, the topic wouldn't be appropriate for the forum. That's just my opinion. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I, respectively, fail to see how this is not an issue appropriate for > NABS. It was posted on the NABS list, and it is issued to students for > consideration. > NABS, being a Federation group and email list, has every right to > discuss issues, causes and concerns that relate to blindness. I feel > placing the notice to begin with was not exactly appropriate for NABS, > but I do not think anyone should be concerned about expressing their > ideas and opinions. > If we follow the argument that this dialogue is wrong for this list, > then I think we should no longer post emails about items for sale, or > information that does not directly relate to student life. > Topics such as this can develop a dialogue that can, and will, lead to a > better understanding of our views on blindness-- both on a personal > level and a collective level. > Respectively, > Bridgit Pollpeter > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jbahm at pcdesk.net Thu Feb 3 04:22:40 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:22:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? In-Reply-To: <4d4974f5.d44de50a.4a8c.ffffaeb5@mx.google.com> References: <4d4974f5.d44de50a.4a8c.ffffaeb5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4D4A2D90.4070707@pcdesk.net> Hello Christina, Well, I think that the specific accessibility and audio book sites have received a good treatment in this thread already. I didn't even know about some of those sites. If you want electronic fiction, there are literally tons of places you can look. I'll leave the obvious ones like Project Gutenberg out since I assume you know about them, or can easily find them if you want. To get you started, Baen Publishing makes many of their titles available for free. Look here: http://www.baen.com They also have pay for titles at: http://www.webscription.net From what I understand, those are even in accessible formats. I haven't bought any, so I can't confirm that. Joe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 487 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jbahm at pcdesk.net Thu Feb 3 04:29:20 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:29:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] integration question In-Reply-To: References: <4D49127E.7060906@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <4D4A2F20.5050607@pcdesk.net> Minh, I guess I misunderstood. I didn't process the fact you actually have to draw the stuff. I thought you were just trying to integrate using those methods. As far as LaTeX goes, this wikibook will get you started. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX There are literally hundreds of resources if it's something you decide you're interested in. That book is a good primer. Joe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 487 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 16:18:43 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:18:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study Message-ID: <4d4ad584.5145e50a.3972.2a77@mx.google.com> I agree with you, Bridgit. We need to discuss sex. That's important because in the book, Enabled Romance, people with disabilities are considered "neutered." They are considered almost the same as we consider our pet puppies and kittens who get spayed and neutered. This is wrong. Also, refer to a previous thought provoker on the lists that spoke of a man wanting to fix his daughter so she wouldn't have kids. I personally have read a book about that sort of thing, and it pains me to hear through the book the cry of voices saying, "It hurts to have sex with my husband because my whole body was ripped to shreds by the Nazis." Etc. etc. That was what one deaf woman said. My current boyfriend and I understand that through both the enlightening guie to romance and a good understanding of what lovemking really is, we can do it. So I think sex is a welcome topic especially with disabled folks. Beth Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter I am lucky that I received little if any sex ed in school, in a book, from my dad. I found out about sex, surprisingly, from men who explained it. I am aware that blind people can and will live and love with a disability. There's a good book, and I'm sure some of you know this, "Enabling Romance." Great book. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Jedi wrote: Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice. In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in planning for this exam. Thank you. --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: From: Martha Harris liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: stephendecker at comcast.net Phone: 612-655-1372 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 From: "Jewel S." wrote: Hi all, I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. Liz We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please read the description of the research study below. And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. Please read the following paragraphs carefully. With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We will record all of that information including your name and address, but please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be able to tell who participated. The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for your willingness to be interviewed. The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out or rewritten. We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. Please be sure to read the following statement. By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my participation in the study. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Gaylen Kapperman Professor and Coordinator Visual Disabilities Program Department of Teaching and Learning Northern Illinois University DeKalb, IL 60115 815-753-8453 gkapperman at niu.edu email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: References: <4d4ad584.5145e50a.3972.2a77@mx.google.com> Message-ID: For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age range is limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we really don't have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to accomplish. And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What does trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From what little we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes there is something inherently different in blind people that would make sex education a special circumstance for this population. Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex different because you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge to figuring out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your friends did not fill in the gaps? Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's important to educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of intercourse as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: Why? Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind people learn about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim it's everyday advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred from equally participating in certain activities. This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind people feed into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they need to defend themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. The research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of unique examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples the second we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're not going to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a hypothesis. It's about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the research in the first place. Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly ask: Why are sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with a blind person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all been in situations where we feared too many questions would be just plain rude. Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds if we're not supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex with the general public. There are things for which you do not need to make a statement to make happen with the one person that is the target of your natural instincts. Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the same context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain humans who force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive the victims as easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding solutions. But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a victim of society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the resources to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of the latter, however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel pressured to send a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be laughable. Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books about sexual equality irritate me because all that time that was spent preaching could have been spent...But, I digress. We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured into dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are plenty of fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and as far as I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public for whom the extra mile is required are the people you call family, the people who cut your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I learned about and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic speculation, because my disability does not make me any different from anyone else. Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to the urge to fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the professor here in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's something there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to being educated. Regards, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 19:40:52 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 12:40:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: <4d4b04e6.064cdf0a.0f90.30a2@mx.google.com> Joe, I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top of the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them into wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did virtually. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" References: <4d4b04e6.064cdf0a.0f90.30a2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <881199A1-411A-4868-8373-D1828E8B5508@mac.com> Completely agree. Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of private stuff? 1 the general public doesn't care, and 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore baseless. The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. Jorge On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: > Joe, > I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top of the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them into wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did virtually. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter > > For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age range is > limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we really don't > have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to accomplish. > And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What does > trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From what little > we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes there is > something inherently different in blind people that would make sex education > a special circumstance for this population. > > Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex different because > you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge to figuring > out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your friends did not > fill in the gaps? > > Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's important to > educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of intercourse > as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: Why? > Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind people learn > about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim it's everyday > advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred from > equally participating in certain activities. > > This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind people feed > into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they need to defend > themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. The > research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of unique > examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples the second > we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're not going > to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a hypothesis. It's > about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the research in > the first place. > > Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly ask: Why are > sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with a blind > person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all been in > situations where we feared too many questions would be just plain rude. > Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds if we're not > supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex with the > general public. There are things for which you do not need to make a > statement to make happen with the one person that is the target of your > natural instincts. > > Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the same > context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain humans who > force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive the victims as > easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding solutions. > > But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a victim of > society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the resources > to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of the latter, > however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel pressured to send > a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be laughable. > Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books about sexual > equality irritate me because all that time that was spent preaching could > have been spent...But, I digress. > > We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured into > dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are plenty of > fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and as far as > I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public for whom the > extra mile is required are the people you call family, the people who cut > your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I learned about > and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic speculation, > because my disability does not make me any different from anyone else. > > Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to the urge to > fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the professor here > in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's something > there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to being > educated. > > Regards, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Thu Feb 3 20:44:32 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:44:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: <4d4ad581.5145e50a.3972.2a76@mx.google.com> References: <4d4ad581.5145e50a.3972.2a76@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth and all, That's just it, the fact that you didn't receive adequate sex education in school. The survey is by no means trying to insult blind people, its purpose is purely informational. Better yet, if you have questions, that's what the contact information in the original post is for, to contact the person and ask questions about it rather than jumping to conclusions. JMHO, Liz email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Feb 3 21:38:23 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:38:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex study In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Darian, I agree with you, but I guess I wonder why it is important to study blind people and not all people 18 to 20 years of age. I think it is important to learn how and when we gain this knowledge, and I am a supporter of sex education. This is a topic that affects all people though. Based solely on the information stated in the sex survy email, they seem to be focusing their study on blind individuals. I simply wonder what the importance of this detail is, and why the study is not concerned with all people in that age bracket, or outside that bracket for that matter. I apologize for starting any controversy on the list. As someone out of my twenties, I hoped to urge anyone to think about their actions before engaging in such a study. I did not mean to suggest this study was harmful, but I wanted to caution. There are a lot of questions, too, that I feel surround this study. We know, even recently, studies and surveys have been conducted that did not do anything to help those who are blind, and were based on stereotypes and negative perceptions. Anyone remember the special yoga mat for the blind? So sorry for causing any problems. I merely hoped to begin a dialogue that would make us think-- not judge, just think. Bridgit P From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 21:42:51 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 16:42:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: <881199A1-411A-4868-8373-D1828E8B5508@mac.com> References: <4d4b04e6.064cdf0a.0f90.30a2@mx.google.com> <881199A1-411A-4868-8373-D1828E8B5508@mac.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry, but it's narrow-mindedness and defensive remarks like these that make me believe you guys miss the entire point of such a study, and of scientific inquiry in general. Just because sex education has never been a problem for you in particular doesn't make that so for every individual in the population. N=1 is not reliable enough. If you don't personally feel comfortable talking about your sex knowledge with a researcher, don't. Populations sharing a trait in common are studied ALL THE TIME, as is the general population, and believe it or not, the NFB and its affiliates have and do support such research as it relates to the blind community. I don't see how it is any more demeaning or irrelevant than, say, a study focused on the elderly as a group, and their knowledge of technology. You might say that the elderly are in no way incapable of learning about technology and such a study is insulting or irrelevant. You could reasonably make all of the same arguments that were made here about this, but such studies have been conducted and have proven useful to both the researchers and the population, even if not every single elderly person has had trouble picking up new technology. I think thinks a little more consideration from a logical, scientific vantage point and a little less defensiveness could go a long way. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Completely agree. > Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of private > stuff? > > 1 the general public doesn't care, > > and > > 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore baseless. > > The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are the person > we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. > > > > Jorge > > > On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: > > > Joe, > > I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the survey is > irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste paper baket of > .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top of the survey if > possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them into wastepaper > basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did virtually. > > Beth > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 > > Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter > > > > For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age range is > > limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we really don't > > have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to > accomplish. > > And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What does > > trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From what > little > > we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes there is > > something inherently different in blind people that would make sex > education > > a special circumstance for this population. > > > > Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex different because > > you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge to > figuring > > out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your friends did > not > > fill in the gaps? > > > > Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's important to > > educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of > intercourse > > as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: Why? > > Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind people learn > > about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim it's > everyday > > advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred from > > equally participating in certain activities. > > > > This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind people > feed > > into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they need to > defend > > themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. The > > research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of unique > > examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples the > second > > we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're not > going > > to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a hypothesis. > It's > > about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the research > in > > the first place. > > > > Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly ask: Why > are > > sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with a blind > > person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all been in > > situations where we feared too many questions would be just plain rude. > > Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds if we're > not > > supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex with the > > general public. There are things for which you do not need to make a > > statement to make happen with the one person that is the target of your > > natural instincts. > > > > Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the same > > context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain humans > who > > force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive the victims > as > > easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding solutions. > > > > But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a victim of > > society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the > resources > > to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of the latter, > > however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel pressured to > send > > a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be laughable. > > Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books about sexual > > equality irritate me because all that time that was spent preaching could > > have been spent...But, I digress. > > > > We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured into > > dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are plenty of > > fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and as far > as > > I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public for whom > the > > extra mile is required are the people you call family, the people who cut > > your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I learned > about > > and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic speculation, > > because my disability does not make me any different from anyone else. > > > > Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to the urge > to > > fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the professor > here > > in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's > something > > there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to being > > educated. > > > > Regards, > > > > Joe > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > > sloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 21:51:31 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 16:51:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex study In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Clearly the research question these scientists have is not "What knowledge do people 18-20 have about sex?" There have already been studies conducted to that end. This study asks the more specific question, "What knowledge do blind people age 18-20 have about sex?" It presumably wants to see whether or not the result is different from what has previously been found to be the norm. If there is a statistically significant difference, one could presume they would then seek to determine why, perhaps looking at possible barriers to sex education in public schools (at least, that's where I'd look first), and once they identify possible sources of the difference, they may continue by examining ways to make a difference. This is how science works, but science is self correcting. If there is no difference, the research will probably not continue in this manner. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Darian, > > I agree with you, but I guess I wonder why it is important to study > blind people and not all people 18 to 20 years of age. > > I think it is important to learn how and when we gain this knowledge, > and I am a supporter of sex education. This is a topic that affects all > people though. Based solely on the information stated in the sex survy > email, they seem to be focusing their study on blind individuals. I > simply wonder what the importance of this detail is, and why the study > is not concerned with all people in that age bracket, or outside that > bracket for that matter. > > I apologize for starting any controversy on the list. As someone out of > my twenties, I hoped to urge anyone to think about their actions before > engaging in such a study. I did not mean to suggest this study was > harmful, but I wanted to caution. > > There are a lot of questions, too, that I feel surround this study. We > know, even recently, studies and surveys have been conducted that did > not do anything to help those who are blind, and were based on > stereotypes and negative perceptions. Anyone remember the special yoga > mat for the blind? > > So sorry for causing any problems. I merely hoped to begin a dialogue > that would make us think-- not judge, just think. > > Bridgit P > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Feb 3 21:54:27 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:54:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Beth, Unfortunately, sex education is lacking for all people-- regardless of disability, race and gender. Most of us learn about sex through friends, media and eventually personal experience. It is important we encourage a healthy and balanced idea on the topic for all people. I don't necessarily believe it is the governments job to educate on sex, but that is a topic for another day, another group! *smile* However, any information we can learn and/or provide about sex is important for developmental purposes. True, a survey such as this could educate society on the "real" concerns and abilities for sex for the blind, but we also want to ensure that the researchers are not directing the survey to fit their perceptions-- if they exist. I will no longer continue this discussion-- I apologize, again, for beginning a dialogue. Bridgit From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Feb 3 21:59:01 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 15:59:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my latest blog- sorry, shameless self promotion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have been writing a blog for the Omaha World Herald's website, Live Well Nebraska.com, since October. I am trying to promote my bi-weekly blog so I can continue to gain traffic. Yes, the blog is about blindness, but I also discuss diabetes as well. I have been encouraging my Federation friends to read and comment because you can help provide insight as well as supporting our capabilities. We have strength in numbers. Anyway, check it out, if you wish at http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2011/02/03/the-hindrance-of-sight/. Thanks. Bridgit P -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 12:00 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 3 Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Sex knowledge survey (angela dehart) 2. Just A Thought (Joe Orozco) 3. Re: Sex knowledge survey (Darian Smith) 4. Re: An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey (Jedi) 5. Re: Sex knowledge survey (Jedi) 6. Re: Sex knowledge survey (blackbyrdfly at gmail.com) 7. Invittation to participate in sex study (Bridgit Pollpeter) 8. Community service call February 13 (community service Outreach) 9. Re: Invittation to participate in sex study (Darian Smith) 10. Re: integration question (minh ha) 11. IRTI NewsClips February 2011 Volume 11 Number 1 (H. Field) 12. Re: Invittation to participate in sex study (Jedi) 13. Re: Other sites for downloading books? (Joseph C. Lininger) 14. Re: integration question (Joseph C. Lininger) 15. Re: Invittation to participate in sex study (Beth) 16. Re: Sex knowledge survey (Beth) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 10:20:23 -0800 (PST) From: angela dehart To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <446251.52642.qm at web63005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex lives of blind people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so screw your 131 questions. This is an insult to me as a blind individual and I cannot for the life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. Angela ________________________________ From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey (Liz Bottner) 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) 7. integration question (minh ha) 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey (Jewel S.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 From: Cindy Bennett To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large print supplements come with your voiced GRE. Cindy On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: > Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam > twice. In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are > taking in planning for this exam. Thank you. > > > --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: > >> From: Martha Harris >> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >> Hi Everyone, >> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did you use. I >> prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think it would be helpful >> to have the quantitative part in Braille. >> >> Thanks, >> Martha >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonne >>ll1%40yahoo.com >>m >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmai > l.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all: Just wondering, how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? Any college courses you need to take? Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach Window Eyes, etc? Thanks, Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 From: Liz Bottner To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. Liz We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please read the description of the research study below. And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. Please read the following paragraphs carefully. With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We will record all of that information including your name and address, but please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be able to tell who participated. The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for your willingness to be interviewed. The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out or rewritten. We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. Please be sure to read the following statement. By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my participation in the study. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Gaylen Kapperman Professor and Coordinator Visual Disabilities Program Department of Teaching and Learning Northern Illinois University DeKalb, IL 60115 815-753-8453 gkapperman at niu.edu email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 From: Brian Wooten To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any suggestions? -- Brian ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all: Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge Rally and launch last weekend. If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my technology show? Please let me know. If you'd rather not do it in audio, we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog. Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 From: minh ha To: blindmath at nfbnet.org Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] integration question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hii, I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s capabilities, so maybe it does? Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this notation as well? Thanks so much for your help Minh -- Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 From: "Melissa " To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at least 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. Until biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, that being said, the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has previously taken the course. They can use work study to pay this person. With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you. For example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific setting, you instruct the to do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for recording and interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what information is pertinent and what is not. I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets. I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science nerd. Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions. Please though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows. Warmly, Melissa Melissa Riley jamandgab at izoom.net riley365 at umn.edu -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoo m.ne t ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 From: David Andrews To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > >I have the following items for sale: > > > * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition > >Comes with carrying case and charger > >Asking $4,000 or best offer > * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, > running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger > >Asking $2,000 or best offer > * BrailleNote QT 32 > >Several cells of display need some repairs > >Running Keysoft 5.1 > >Asking $100 > > > >To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: > >stephendecker at comcast.net > >Phone: 612-655-1372 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 From: "Jewel S." To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: > Hi all, > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > Liz > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to > determine the level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or > severely visually disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, > you are being invited to participate if you are between the ages of 18 > and 20 and if you are blind or severely visually impaired. Please > read the ramifications for participation in the study which are > described below. After reading the information, if you wish to > participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an e-e-mail > indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of > visual disability that you have. Include your mailing address and > your telephone number. If you agree to the stipulations as described > below, indicate that in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, > Professor Kapperman will forward your e-mail to one of his research > assistants who will make contact with you to set up a date and time > when you can be interviewed. If you are male, he will choose a male > research assistant and if you are female, he will choose a female > research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, we will send you > a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please read the > description of the research study below. And please forward this > e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the requirements for > participation and whom you think may be interested in being included > in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to participate > as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can help > us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which > blind and visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough > draft. That is, we are not certain whether the 131true/false > statements on the test are written properly. You can help us develop > this test by taking it and giving us your answers. Your answers will > be completely anonymous. That is, no one except the researchers will > know how you answered the statements. No one outside of the research > team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate whether you > are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We will > record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future > will be able to tell who participated. > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you > to guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to > the interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do > not understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. > When you are done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of > our appreciation for your willingness to be interviewed. > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order > that we can use it in the future with other visually disabled > adolescents and young adults. The problem is if the test is not very > good, then we can't trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking > the test as a trial run. We will analyze all of the answers given by > all of the participants to help us figure out which statements are > good and which ones should be thrown out or rewritten. > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in > this study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing > bad will happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to > finish it, that is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish > the interview, then we will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide > not to be interviewed or not to finish the interview, then you will > not receive the money. > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached > by e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by > telephone at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an > e-mail indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact > that I have read the statement above and that I understand the > ramifications of my participation in the study. > > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%4 >0gmail.com >m > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 ************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:18:00 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: [nabs-l] Just A Thought Message-ID: <09BB0E7FD1244E36A03B71B2A8A5B915 at Rufus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On January 7 Debbie Wunder wrote to the list asking for tips on how to better engage young people in what could be considered an aging affiliate. No, we may all not live in Missouri, but yes, it is a common problem that impacts the longevity of the organization. I can count the number of responses the post received. Fast forward a few weeks, and the sex survey has stirred up a pretty consistent response rate. Priorities? Relevance? I don't know the impetus, but for me, it's something worth mulling over. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:21:37 -0800 From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Angela and list, While I do find the concept of this study interesting, I would like to throw out a few thoughts of my own, if I may. Yes, it is obviously true that blind people have sex and sexual desires, much like any other human being. But the question that may be worth thinking about is, how do we go about getting the information? How do we find out about sex? are we told of it by our parents? by the teachers at the schools for the blind? on T.V., Books, Media? how do we visualize it? Is Sex and sexuality something that can be depicted in a tactual model, or illistrated in a braille book? All I am suggesting, is that there are many questions surrounding sex that don't really have to do with "do you know what goes where?" If I was within the age range of the study (and I am not anymore), I would ask myself if the questions that I'm being asked are really worthwhile questions that help people to be better educated about blindness and what we really can do, or if it's just a study that has no real meaning to it. I would also wonder where the findings will go, where will they be printed, will the consumer organizations (NFB, ACB) get a hold of this data? These are just some thoughtsI am just allowing to surface for now. Thanks, Darian On 2/2/11, angela dehart wrote: > > I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex > lives of blind people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so > screw your 131 questions. This is an insult to me as a blind > individual and I cannot for the > life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. > Angela > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) > 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) > 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Liz Bottner) > 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) > 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) > 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) > 7. integration question (minh ha) > 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) > 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) > 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Jewel S.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 > From: Cindy Bennett > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large > print supplements come with your voiced GRE. > > Cindy > > On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: >> Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam >> twice. In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are >> taking in planning for this exam. >> Thank you. >> >> >> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: >> >>> From: Martha Harris >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >>> Hi Everyone, >>> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did you use. >>> I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think it would be >>> helpful to have the quantitative part in Braille. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Martha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonn >>>ell1%40yahoo.com >>>m >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gma >> il.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering, > how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? Any college > courses you need to take? Or would you need to be certefied by each > company: E.G., get seperate certifications from Freedom Scientific to > teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach > Window Eyes, etc? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 > From: Liz Bottner > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all, > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > Liz > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to > determine the level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or > severely visually disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, > you are being invited to participate if you are between the ages of 18 > and 20 and if you are blind or severely visually impaired. Please > read the ramifications for participation in the study which are > described below. After reading the information, if you wish to > participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an e-e-mail > indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of > visual disability that you have. Include your mailing address and > your telephone number. If you agree to the stipulations as described > below, indicate that in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, > Professor Kapperman will forward your e-mail to one of his research > assistants who will make contact with you to set up a date and time > when you can be interviewed. If you are male, he will choose a male > research assistant and if you are female, he will choose a female > research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, we will send you > a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please read the > description of the research study below. And please forward this > e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the requirements for > participation and whom you think may be interested in being included > in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to participate > as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can help > us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which > blind and visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough > draft. That is, we are not certain whether the 131true/false > statements on the test are written properly. You can help us develop > this test by taking it and giving us your answers. Your answers will > be completely anonymous. That is, no one except the researchers will > know how you answered the statements. No one outside of the research > team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate whether you > are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We will > record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future > will be able to tell who participated. > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you > to guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to > the interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do > not understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. > When you are done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of > our appreciation for your willingness to be interviewed. > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order > that we can use it in the future with other visually disabled > adolescents and young adults. The problem is if the test is not very > good, then we can't trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking > the test as a trial run. We will analyze all of the answers given by > all of the participants to help us figure out which statements are > good and which ones should be thrown out or rewritten. > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in > this study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing > bad will happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to > finish it, that is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish > the interview, then we will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide > not to be interviewed or not to finish the interview, then you will > not receive the money. > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached > by e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by > telephone at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an > e-mail indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact > that I have read the statement above and that I understand the > ramifications of my participation in the study. > > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 > From: Brian Wooten > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science field, > but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask > them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40 >> mac.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview > Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver > Challenge Rally and launch last weekend. > > If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my > technology show? > > > Please let me know. > > > If you'd rather not do it in audio, > we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our > blog. > > > > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 > From: minh ha > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] integration question > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hii, > > I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation > Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was > wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to > attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my > teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators > so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and > trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems > that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles > out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time > and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but > I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s > capabilities, so maybe it does? Also, we are doing sigma notation > which looks extremely weird in Braille. Is there anyway to write it > correctly in Microsoft word using Greek letters? Could the Braille > note have a way to write this notation as well? > > Thanks so much for your help > > Minh > > > -- > Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 > From: "Melissa " > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of > Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at > least 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy > and physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. > Until biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at > which I was the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, > that being said, the first thing to do is ask them to find you a > laboratory assistant who has previously taken the course. They can > use work study to pay this person. With this assistant, you will need > to give them explicit instructions as to what you want them to do, and > they will perform the task for you. For example, if you want them to > calibrate the spectrometer to a specific setting, you instruct the to > do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare the sample just so, > then read you the results, which you are responsible for recording and > interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the course as > your lab assistant will help because they will know what information > is pertinent and what is not. I would also suggest forming a close and > snuggly relationship with your professor and lab technician, who can > be very valuable assets. I am more than happy to be of any assistance > that I can, I am a science nerd. Feel free to write me off list if > you have further questions. Please though, take full advantage of > this opportunity, I love it when the visually impaired take courses > that raise other's eyebrows. Warmly, Melissa > Melissa Riley > jamandgab at izoom.net > riley365 at umn.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a > reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask > them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40 >> m >> ac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40iz > oom.ne > t > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 > From: David Andrews > To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >> >> >> >>I have the following items for sale: >> >> >> * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition >> >>Comes with carrying case and charger >> >>Asking $4,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, >>running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger >> >>Asking $2,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote QT 32 >> >>Several cells of display need some repairs >> >>Running Keysoft 5.1 >> >>Asking $100 >> >> >> >>To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker >>at: >> >>stephendecker at comcast.net >> >>Phone: 612-655-1372 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 > From: "Jewel S." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited > age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. > They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when > students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will > not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... > > On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. >> >> >> >> Liz >> >> >> We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to >> determine the level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or >> severely visually disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, >> you are being invited to participate if you are between the ages of >> 18 and 20 and if you are blind or >> severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for >> participation >> in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if >> you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an >> e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your >> name, >> age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual >> disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone >> number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that >> in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will >> forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make >> contact >> with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you >> are >> male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he >> will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, >> we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please >> read the description of the research study below. >> And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the >> requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in >> being >> included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to >> participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you >> can >> help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. >> >> Please read the following paragraphs carefully. >> With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a >> research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which >> blind and visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough >> draft. That is, we >> are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are >> written >> properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us >> your >> answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one >> except >> the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside >> of >> the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate >> whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We >> will record all of that information including your name and address, but >> please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to >> delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will >> be >> able to tell who participated. >> >> The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the >> interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want >> you to guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that >> to the interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you >> do not understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. >> When you are done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of >> our appreciation for >> your willingness to be interviewed. >> >> The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order >> that we can use it in the future with other visually disabled >> adolescents and young adults. The problem is if the test is not very >> good, then we can't trust the results. Thus, you can help us by >> taking the test as a trial run. We will analyze all of the answers >> given by all of the participants to help >> us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown >> out >> or rewritten. >> >> We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in >> this study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing >> bad will happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to >> finish it, that is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish >> the interview, then we will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide >> not to be interviewed or not to finish the interview, then you will >> not receive the money. >> >> If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited >> to contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be >> reached by e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach >> him by telephone at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. >> >> Please be sure to read the following statement. >> By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an >> e-mail indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact >> that I have read the statement above and that I understand the >> ramifications of my participation in the study. >> >> Thank you very much. >> Sincerely, >> Gaylen Kapperman >> Professor and Coordinator >> Visual Disabilities Program >> Department of Teaching and Learning >> Northern Illinois University >> DeKalb, IL 60115 >> 815-753-8453 >> gkapperman at niu.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> email: >> >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: >> >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% >>40gmail.com >>m >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > ************************************* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm > ail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:45:03 -0500 From: Jedi To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <20110202194503.26068.62107 at domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" I didn't immediately know that this survey regarded blind youth. I just thought it was some random item that someone put up there for God knows why. Well, we all know what they say about assumptions, right? In any case, it is true that the blind need appropriate sex education just like anyone else, and the topic is especially important because society often thinks that disabled folks don't or can't have a desire to procreate or that we shouldn't procreate. Likewise, folks with disabilities are often seen as aesexual beings which is far from true. Finally, we have access issues to talk about since science of most types are still largely inaccessible to us in public schools unless we extend considerable effort toward accessibility. All that said, I do encourage that the appropriate people take the survey as it's necessary information. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Guys, it's a study. They're just pilot testing their survey. If you > don't want to take it, don't, but don't get up in arms because some > researcher is trying to answer a research question you feel certain > you already know the answer to. that isn't how we find answers. It's > how we push opinions, and that is not what we want people doing when > they determine things about the blind. Science is beautifully self > correcting. If it's true that the young blind population is no > different in terms of level of sex education than the sighted > population, they'll see this in due time once people start giving them > data. ALL populations get studied at some point or another. It would > only be unethical if you guys were not given the information you were > given, and the opportunity to refuse to participate. So either do it > or don't, but don't pitch a fit over it. > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Jedi > wrote: >> Weird. I didn't know they were specifically surveying blind people. >> Respectfully Submitted >> Original message: >> I wondered why they'd survey blind people. But I'd get more >> information >>> before assuming anything and participating. It doesn't bother me too >>> much they want to survey blind people, but I thought the age sample >>> was very narrow. How will people learn our views or that we're >>> normal if they don't investigate us? >>> Take it if you want or just leave it; I am too old to participate so just >>> deleted it. >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jedi >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 6:20 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge >>> survey >> FYI: This particular topic has nothing to do with blindness or NABS. >>> Please let it die. >> Respectfully, >>> Jedi Moerke >>> NABS List Chair >> Original message: >>>> When I got the email I sent it to the circular file and was kind of >>>> hoping >>>> for it to die a natural death and not be revived by endless chatter. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:38 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to participate in a sex knowledge >>>> survey >> Second that. >> I cossion: make sure you're not supporting the weird stereotypes people >>>>> seem to have when taking this survey. >> Jorge >> On Feb 1, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> I question the reasoning behind this survey. It is vague as to why they >>>>>> are conducting this survey, and why is it specific to blind students? >>>>>> Why not a study simply on any student? Blind people do not necessarily >>>>>> view, or have, sex differently than anyone else. >> It comes across to me as a survey to see how the strange blind people >>>>>> understand and engage in sexual activity. What is the importance in >>>>>> this survey? I didn't realize the topic of sex was an issue to blind >>>>>> folk. And to only offer $10-- usually surveys of this kind offer a >>>>>> more >>>>>> substantial amount. >> I caution any of you who participate in this survey. And why the >>>>>> phrase, "severely blind?" I have always hated that statement-- as >>>>>> though being totally blind is debilitating. Not to get all political, >>>>>> but reading the vague description of the survey, it seems like they >>>>>> want >>>>>> to observe the blind as though we were wild monkeys. Just my two >>>>>> cents. >> Bridgit P >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac .com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail. com >> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40 samobile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40g mail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40 samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:53:42 -0500 From: Jedi To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <20110202195342.26120.15633 at domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" Not having looked at the survey myself, I do think it's a good idea to assess what blind people know about sex. This isn't to say that we know squat because we're blind, or that we know more than most, but that we may be at a disadvantage in our aquisition of this kind of knowledge due to accessibility issues and social perceptions. LGBT youth have the same kinds of issues but in a different guise. Now whether or not the researchers are aware of the real reasons why a blind student may not have appropriate sex ed is anyone's guess. They may, like many researchers, be morbidly curious because they're specially surveying the blind population. Even if that is true, someone from our research camp could take whatever data is collected, expand on it, interpret it appropriately, and put the research to good use that it may appropriately serve to create the necessary education for our blind youth that's equal to that of the sighted. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex lives > of blind > people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so screw your 131 > questions. This is an insult to me as a blind individual and I cannot for the > life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. > Angela > ________________________________ > From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > Today's Topics: > 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) > 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) > 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Liz Bottner) > 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) > 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) > 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) > 7. integration question (minh ha) > 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) > 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) > 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Jewel S.) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 > From: Cindy Bennett > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large > print supplements come with your voiced GRE. > Cindy > On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: >> Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice. >> In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in >> planning for this exam. >> Thank you. >> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: >>> From: Martha Harris >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >>> Hi Everyone, >>> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did >>> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think >>> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in >>> Braille. >>> Thanks, >>> Martha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell 1%40yahoo.com >>> m >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail. com > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > ------------------------------ > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > Hi all: > Just wondering, > how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? > Any college courses you need to take? > Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate > certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach > Window Eyes, etc? > Thanks, > Jorge > ------------------------------ > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 > From: Liz Bottner > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Hi all, > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > Liz > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > read the description of the research study below. > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be > able to tell who participated. > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for > your willingness to be interviewed. > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out > or rewritten. > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > participation in the study. > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > email: > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > Visit my LiveJournal: > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > ------------------------------ > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 > From: Brian Wooten > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Hello, > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > -- > Brian > ------------------------------ > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science > field, > but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: >> Hello, >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> -- >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac .com > ------------------------------ > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview > Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > Hi all: > Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge Rally > and launch last weekend. > If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my technology > show? > Please let me know. > If you'd rather not do it in audio, > we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog. > Jorge > ------------------------------ > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 > From: minh ha > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] integration question > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > Hii, > I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation > Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was > wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to > attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my > teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators > so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and > trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems > that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles > out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time > and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but > I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s > capabilities, so maybe it does? > Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in > Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using > Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this > notation as well? > Thanks so much for your help > Minh > -- > Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." > ------------------------------ > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 > From: "Melissa " > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of > Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at least > 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and > physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. Until > biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was > the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, that being said, > the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has > previously taken the course. They can use work study to pay this person. > With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to > what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you. For > example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific > setting, you instruct the to do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare > the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for > recording and interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the > course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what > information is pertinent and what is not. > I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your > professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets. > I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science > nerd. Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions. Please > though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually > impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows. > Warmly, > Melissa > Melissa Riley > jamandgab at izoom.net > riley365 at umn.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: >> Hello, >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> -- >> Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m >> ac.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoo m.ne > t > ------------------------------ > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 > From: David Andrews > To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >> I have the following items for sale: >> * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition >> Comes with carrying case and charger >> Asking $4,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, >> running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger >> Asking $2,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote QT 32 >> Several cells of display need some repairs >> Running Keysoft 5.1 >> Asking $100 >> To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: >> stephendecker at comcast.net >> Phone: 612-655-1372 > ------------------------------ > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 > From: "Jewel S." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited > age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. > They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when > students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will > not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... > On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: >> Hi all, >> I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. >> Liz >> We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the >> level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually >> disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to >> participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or >> severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation >> in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if >> you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an >> e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, >> age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual >> disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone >> number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that >> in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will >> forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact >> with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are >> male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he >> will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, >> we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please >> read the description of the research study below. >> And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the >> requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being >> included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to >> participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can >> help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. >> Please read the following paragraphs carefully. >> With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a >> research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and >> visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we >> are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written >> properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your >> answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except >> the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of >> the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate >> whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We >> will record all of that information including your name and address, but >> please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to >> delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be >> able to tell who participated. >> The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the >> interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to >> guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the >> interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not >> understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are >> done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for >> your willingness to be interviewed. >> The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that >> we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and >> young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't >> trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. >> We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help >> us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out >> or rewritten. >> We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this >> study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will >> happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that >> is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we >> will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not >> to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. >> If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to >> contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by >> e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone >> at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. >> Please be sure to read the following statement. >> By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail >> indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have >> read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my >> participation in the study. >> Thank you very much. >> Sincerely, >> Gaylen Kapperman >> Professor and Coordinator >> Visual Disabilities Program >> Department of Teaching and Learning >> Northern Illinois University >> DeKalb, IL 60115 >> 815-753-8453 >> gkapperman at niu.edu >> email: >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> Follow me on Twitter: >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 gmail.com >> m > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > ************************************* > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40 samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:17:10 -0500 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Then don't participate. It's that simple. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 2, 2011, at 1:20 PM, angela dehart wrote: > > I fail to understand why individuals are so fascinated by the sex lives of blind > people. We have sex like everyone else in the world, so screw your 131 > questions. This is an insult to me as a blind individual and I cannot for the > life of me understand why it is impertinent for this to be discussed. > Angela > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org" > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:06 PM > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: GRE (Cindy Bennett) > 2. assistive technology training (Jorge Paez) > 3. An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Liz Bottner) > 4. Dealing with Science Labs (Brian Wooten) > 5. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Jorge Paez) > 6. BDC ? interview (Jorge Paez) > 7. integration question (minh ha) > 8. Re: Dealing with Science Labs (Melissa ) > 9. Fwd: items for sale (David Andrews) > 10. Re: An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey > (Jewel S.) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500 > From: Cindy Bennett > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large > print supplements come with your voiced GRE. > > Cindy > > On 1/30/11, William ODonnell wrote: >> Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice. >> In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in >> planning for this exam. >> Thank you. >> >> >> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: >> >>> From: Martha Harris >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM >>> Hi Everyone, >>> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did >>> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think >>> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in >>> Braille. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Martha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell 1%40yahoo.com >>> m >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail. com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering, > how would you get certified to teach assistive technology? > Any college courses you need to take? > Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate > certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach > Window Eyes, etc? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600 > From: Liz Bottner > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all, > > > > I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. > > > > Liz > > > We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the > level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually > disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to > participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or > severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation > in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if > you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an > e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, > age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual > disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone > number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that > in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will > forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact > with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are > male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he > will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, > we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please > read the description of the research study below. > And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the > requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being > included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to > participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can > help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. > > Please read the following paragraphs carefully. > With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a > research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and > visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we > are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written > properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your > answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except > the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of > the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate > whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We > will record all of that information including your name and address, but > please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to > delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be > able to tell who participated. > > The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the > interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to > guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the > interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not > understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are > done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for > your willingness to be interviewed. > > The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that > we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and > young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't > trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. > We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help > us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out > or rewritten. > > We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this > study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will > happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that > is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we > will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not > to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. > > If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to > contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by > e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone > at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. > > Please be sure to read the following statement. > By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail > indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have > read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my > participation in the study. > > Thank you very much. > Sincerely, > Gaylen Kapperman > Professor and Coordinator > Visual Disabilities Program > Department of Teaching and Learning > Northern Illinois University > DeKalb, IL 60115 > 815-753-8453 > gkapperman at niu.edu > > > > > > email: > > liziswhatis at hotmail.com > > Visit my LiveJournal: > > > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > Follow me on Twitter: > > http://twitter.com/lizbot > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600 > From: Brian Wooten > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello, > > I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some > feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are > quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, > interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. > > I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal > with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any > suggestions? > > -- > Brian > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science > field, > but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac .com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] BDC ? interview > Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76 at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII > > Hi all: > Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge Rally > and launch last weekend. > > If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my technology > show? > > > Please let me know. > > > If you'd rather not do it in audio, > we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog. > > > > > Jorge > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500 > From: minh ha > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org > Cc: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] integration question > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hii, > > I?m taking AP Calculus and we?re doing the Rectangle Approximation > Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was > wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to > attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my > teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators > so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and > trapezoids out by hand. It?s also a lot easier to figure out problems > that require really small intervals. I?m currently drawing rectangles > out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time > and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but > I don?t think it supports the RAM. However, I don?t know all of AGC?s > capabilities, so maybe it does? > Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in > Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using > Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this > notation as well? > > Thanks so much for your help > > Minh > > > -- > Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600 > From: "Melissa " > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Good evening. I can help, a little anyway. I am a junior at the U of > Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science. I have taken at least > 6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and > physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry. Until > biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was > the first blind person, and I graduated with honors. So, that being said, > the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has > previously taken the course. They can use work study to pay this person. > With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to > what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you. For > example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific > setting, you instruct the to do so. Then you would instruct them to prepare > the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for > recording and interpreting. Having someone who has previously taken the > course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what > information is pertinent and what is not. > I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your > professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets. > I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science > nerd. Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions. Please > though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually > impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows. > Warmly, > Melissa > Melissa Riley > jamandgab at izoom.net > riley365 at umn.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs > > I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular > Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader. > > That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them. > > > > > On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some >> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are >> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, >> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc. >> >> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal >> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them. Any >> suggestions? >> >> -- >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m >> ac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoo m.ne > t > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:08:15 -0600 > From: David Andrews > To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org, > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: items for sale > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >> >> >> >> I have the following items for sale: >> >> >> * Braille Sense Plus B32, in good condition >> >> Comes with carrying case and charger >> >> Asking $4,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote MPower with 32 cell display, in good condition, >> running Keysoft 7.2Comes with carrying case and charger >> >> Asking $2,000 or best offer >> * BrailleNote QT 32 >> >> Several cells of display need some repairs >> >> Running Keysoft 5.1 >> >> Asking $100 >> >> >> >> To make an offer, or for any questions, please contact Steve Decker at: >> >> stephendecker at comcast.net >> >> Phone: 612-655-1372 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 > From: "Jewel S." > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge > Survey > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Wow, the age range is very restrictive. Do they think that the limited > age range wwill promote a more valid survey? I have to question that. > They should include younger and older students to get an idea of when > students gain sexual knowledge. A survey of just 18-20 year-olds will > not show when students gain that sexual knowledge.... > > On 1/31/11, Liz Bottner wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. >> >> >> >> Liz >> >> >> We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the >> level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually >> disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to >> participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or >> severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation >> in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if >> you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an >> e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, >> age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual >> disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone >> number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that >> in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will >> forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact >> with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are >> male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he >> will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, >> we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please >> read the description of the research study below. >> And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the >> requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being >> included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to >> participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can >> help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. >> >> Please read the following paragraphs carefully. >> With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a >> research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and >> visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we >> are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written >> properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your >> answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except >> the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of >> the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate >> whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We >> will record all of that information including your name and address, but >> please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to >> delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be >> able to tell who participated. >> >> The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the >> interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to >> guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the >> interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not >> understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are >> done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for >> your willingness to be interviewed. >> >> The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that >> we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and >> young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't >> trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. >> We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help >> us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out >> or rewritten. >> >> We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this >> study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will >> happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that >> is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we >> will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not >> to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. >> >> If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to >> contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by >> e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone >> at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. >> >> Please be sure to read the following statement. >> By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail >> indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have >> read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my >> participation in the study. >> >> Thank you very much. >> Sincerely, >> Gaylen Kapperman >> Professor and Coordinator >> Visual Disabilities Program >> Department of Teaching and Learning >> Northern Illinois University >> DeKalb, IL 60115 >> 815-753-8453 >> gkapperman at niu.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> email: >> >> liziswhatis at hotmail.com >> >> Visit my LiveJournal: >> >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> >> Follow me on Twitter: >> >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40 gmail.com >> m >> > > > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 1 > ************************************* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40g mail.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:14:58 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I, respectively, fail to see how this is not an issue appropriate for NABS. It was posted on the NABS list, and it is issued to students for consideration. NABS, being a Federation group and email list, has every right to discuss issues, causes and concerns that relate to blindness. I feel placing the notice to begin with was not exactly appropriate for NABS, but I do not think anyone should be concerned about expressing their ideas and opinions. If we follow the argument that this dialogue is wrong for this list, then I think we should no longer post emails about items for sale, or information that does not directly relate to student life. Topics such as this can develop a dialogue that can, and will, lead to a better understanding of our views on blindness-- both on a personal level and a collective level. Respectively, Bridgit Pollpeter ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:40:23 -0600 From: community service Outreach To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Community service call February 13 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi everyone. It's time for another community service conference call! This time we will be hearing from Conchita Hernandez, who was a 2010 scholarship winner. The information for calling in is below. when: February 13, 7 P.M. ET phone number: (218) 339-3600 passcode 808277. Any questions? Just email this address. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 14:45:15 -0800 From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm sure that the study was blindness related, fine for the nabs list and that it was just a matter that people needed time to take in all of the information that flooded the list on the topic as of late. Great points were brought up, discussions had, and I'm sure that with the spreading of the word, youth will either take part in, or not take part in the study as they see fit. Much appreciation for the thoughts and contributions! Regards, Darian Smith Board member: National Association of Blind Students On 2/2/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I, respectively, fail to see how this is not an issue appropriate for > NABS. It was posted on the NABS list, and it is issued to students for > consideration. > > NABS, being a Federation group and email list, has every right to > discuss issues, causes and concerns that relate to blindness. I feel > placing the notice to begin with was not exactly appropriate for NABS, > but I do not think anyone should be concerned about expressing their > ideas and opinions. > > If we follow the argument that this dialogue is wrong for this list, > then I think we should no longer post emails about items for sale, or > information that does not directly relate to student life. > > Topics such as this can develop a dialogue that can, and will, lead to a > better understanding of our views on blindness-- both on a personal > level and a collective level. > > Respectively, > Bridgit Pollpeter > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmai l.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 20:22:05 -0500 From: minh ha To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] integration question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Joe, We are studying the different formulas next in our course, and I know the formulas will make things a lot easier to figure out integrals. I just thought for the current problem of drawing rectangles under the curve that there might be a way for me to do it more efficiently. But I guess this is a part of math that I just have to stick it out, no matter how painful. :). As for LaTeX, I heard about it in passing from several people, but I have no idea what it really is and what it can do. I think I'll try and google it and perhaps you can point me in the right direction to find more information about it. Thanks a bunches for your help Minh On 2/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Min, > To answer your first question, there are formulas which you can use to > evaluate these integrals if you are doing so over a definite interval. I > don't remember them off the top of my head, but I know there are five of > them you are likely to encounter. They are: left rectangle, mid > rectangle, right rectangle, Trapezoidal, and simptson's rule. Each has a > formula you can use, as well as an equation for determining the amount > of error. Simpson's rule is the most accurate, but it requires > computation of a fourth derivative in order to determine the error so it > isn't always practical. Anyway, if you know those formulas, you can use > the method. The left, mid, and right rectangle are easy because it's the > Remon sum equation, with slight variations for each of the three. The > other two, Trapezoidal and simpson's rule, you'll just have to memorize > those if you choose to use them. You'll also have to know the equation > for error in approximation for each method. > > To answer your second question, if you choose to go on in mathematics, > and you are going to use a computer to read and write your math, I > suggest you take up the LaTeX type setting system. This will do two > things for you. First, it will allow you to generate accessible math > which you can both read and work on. Second, you can use LaTeX source to > generate something which a teacher, professor, or coleague will find > readable and which uses the symbols which are used in the field. The > trouble with using word is that if you try to generate things so they > look the same as what a sighted person would expect to see, more than > likely your screen reader will not read it correctly for you any more. > > Let me know if I can be of further assistance. > Joe > > -- Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live." ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 20:26:12 -0600 From: "H. Field" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] IRTI NewsClips February 2011 Volume 11 Number 1 Message-ID: <914BD4FEB6294707859A7A723BCD5B10 at heathersony> FYI: ----- Original Message ----- From: "IRTI" Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 6:02 PM IRTI NewsClips February 2011 Volume 11 Number 1 Greetings! IRTI is pleased to announce the availability of an exciting new product. Just in are two wireless Perkins style Braille keyboards that support a wide range of devices including: smartphones, Mac, iPhone, iPad, netbook, PC or PDA. Compatible applications and operating systems, including: MobileSpeak Talks Windows Mobile Apple OS 10.5 (Leopard) and 10.6 (Snow Leopard) iPhone version 4, Ipad The Dolphin Pen, Supernova and Pocket Hal, all with a braille keyboard and Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7 as a bluetooth keyboard We have two keyboard models to choose from: The BraillePen Slim Price $299.00 and the BraillePen 12, which includes a built-in 12 Cell Braille Display Price $995.00. For more information about the BraillePen visit these links: For BraillePen visit http://www.irti.net/store/product342.html For BraillePen 12 visit http://www.irti.net/store/product341.html You may also call IRTI at 1 800 322 4784 or 530 274 2090 with your questions. Thank you for taking the time to review this edition of IRTI NewsClips. Subscription and Contact Information You certainly may forward this newsletter in its entirety to others or post it to email lists who would have an interest in it. If you wish to unsubscribe from this newsletter just send an email to info at irti.net with "Unsubscribe NewsClips" in the subject and include your email address. As with all our customer information we do not sell, give, trade or otherwise release your personal information outside of IRTI. To subscribe and receive future issues of IRTI NewsClips send an email to info at irti.net and place "Subscribe NewsClips" in the subject line. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 22:00:49 -0500 From: Jedi To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study Message-ID: <20110203030049.29507.26049 at domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" Gotta keep reading those threads, bridget. I said later on that I had no idea the sex survey had blind folks as its targeted subject pool. That was my mistake and I indicated as such. However, if it didn't have blind people as its target population, the topic wouldn't be appropriate for the forum. That's just my opinion. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I, respectively, fail to see how this is not an issue appropriate for > NABS. It was posted on the NABS list, and it is issued to students for > consideration. > NABS, being a Federation group and email list, has every right to > discuss issues, causes and concerns that relate to blindness. I feel > placing the notice to begin with was not exactly appropriate for NABS, > but I do not think anyone should be concerned about expressing their > ideas and opinions. > If we follow the argument that this dialogue is wrong for this list, > then I think we should no longer post emails about items for sale, or > information that does not directly relate to student life. > Topics such as this can develop a dialogue that can, and will, lead to a > better understanding of our views on blindness-- both on a personal > level and a collective level. > Respectively, > Bridgit Pollpeter > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40 samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:22:40 -0700 From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Other sites for downloading books? Message-ID: <4D4A2D90.4070707 at pcdesk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Christina, Well, I think that the specific accessibility and audio book sites have received a good treatment in this thread already. I didn't even know about some of those sites. If you want electronic fiction, there are literally tons of places you can look. I'll leave the obvious ones like Project Gutenberg out since I assume you know about them, or can easily find them if you want. To get you started, Baen Publishing makes many of their titles available for free. Look here: http://www.baen.com They also have pay for titles at: http://www.webscription.net >From what I understand, those are even in accessible formats. I haven't bought any, so I can't confirm that. Joe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 487 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:29:20 -0700 From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] integration question Message-ID: <4D4A2F20.5050607 at pcdesk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Minh, I guess I misunderstood. I didn't process the fact you actually have to draw the stuff. I thought you were just trying to integrate using those methods. As far as LaTeX goes, this wikibook will get you started. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX There are literally hundreds of resources if it's something you decide you're interested in. That book is a good primer. Joe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 487 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 09:18:43 -0700 From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Invittation to participate in sex study Message-ID: <4d4ad584.5145e50a.3972.2a77 at mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed I agree with you, Bridgit. We need to discuss sex. That's important because in the book, Enabled Romance, people with disabilities are considered "neutered." They are considered almost the same as we consider our pet puppies and kittens who get spayed and neutered. This is wrong. Also, refer to a previous thought provoker on the lists that spoke of a man wanting to fix his daughter so she wouldn't have kids. I personally have read a book about that sort of thing, and it pains me to hear through the book the cry of voices saying, "It hurts to have sex with my husband because my whole body was ripped to shreds by the Nazis." Etc. etc. That was what one deaf woman said. My current boyfriend and I understand that through both the enlightening guie to romance and a good understanding of what lovemking really is, we can do it. So I think sex is a welcome topic especially with disabled folks. Beth Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list, nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: <4d4ad581.5145e50a.3972.2a76 at mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed I am lucky that I received little if any sex ed in school, in a book, from my dad. I found out about sex, surprisingly, from men who explained it. I am aware that blind people can and will live and love with a disability. There's a good book, and I'm sure some of you know this, "Enabling Romance." Great book. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Jedi wrote: Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice. In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in planning for this exam. Thank you. --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris wrote: From: Martha Harris liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: stephendecker at comcast.net Phone: 612-655-1372 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 09:13:41 -0500 From: "Jewel S." wrote: Hi all, I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below. Liz We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or severely visually impaired. Please read the ramifications for participation in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if you wish to participate in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name, age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual disability that you have. Include your mailing address and your telephone number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that in your e-mail. Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact with you to set up a date and time when you can be interviewed. If you are male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please read the description of the research study below. And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation. Thus, you can help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. Please read the following paragraphs carefully. With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your answers. Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of the research team will see your answers. We will ask you to indicate whether you are a male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We will record all of that information including your name and address, but please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to delete all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be able to tell who participated. The interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to tell the interviewer whether you think it is true or false. We do not want you to guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the interviewer. Also, if the interviewer reads words that you do not understand, we want you to tell the interviewer those words. When you are done, we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for your willingness to be interviewed. The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run. We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the participants to help us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out or rewritten. We want you to understand that you are not forced to participate in this study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will happen. If you start the interview and then decide not to finish it, that is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to be interviewed or not to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money. If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone at 815-753-8453 at Northern Illinois University. Please be sure to read the following statement. By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have read the statement above and that I understand the ramifications of my participation in the study. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Gaylen Kapperman Professor and Coordinator Visual Disabilities Program Department of Teaching and Learning Northern Illinois University DeKalb, IL 60115 815-753-8453 gkapperman at niu.edu email: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: *** Donna W. Hill, Head of Media Relations for the NFB's Performing Arts Division, Media Specialist for the NFB of PA and a writer for the online magazine Suite 101 is doing a series of articles on the Blind Driver Challenge. She's looking for both people who attended and others who were strongly affected by the event to share their thoughts and reactions. Links to her first five articles are below. If you care to participate in this effort to document this historic event, write to Donna at: dwhill at epix.net Include, name, age, location, profession or student status, your thoughts or phone number, if you'd rather talk than write about your reactions. JPeg photos are welcomed but not required. 1. Daytona Hosts Blind Driver Challenge Demonstration at Rolex 24 Jan. 26, 2011 http://www.suite101.com/content/daytona-hosts-blind-driver-challenge-demonstration-at-rolex-24-a338445 On Saturday, Jan. 29, 2011, a blind person will drive solo around Daytona before the Rolex 24, in a Ford Escape designed by Virginia Tech and the NFB. 2. Congressman Mica Hands Keys to Blind Driver at Daytona Jan. 28, 2011 http://www.suite101.com/content/congressman-mica-hands-keys-to-blind-driver-at-daytona-a339552 Rep. Mica (FL) hands Ford Escape's keys to a blind driver at the Rolex 24 at Daytona. The Blind Driver Challenge ™ is a research project of VT and the NFB. 3. Mark Riccobono: the Blind Man at the Wheel at Daytona January 29, 2011 http://www.suite101.com/content/mark-riccobono-the-blind-man-at-the-wheel-at-daytona-a339989 Jernigan Institute's blind executive director drove a Ford Escape solo at Daytona. Nonvisual interface technology made the Jan. 29, 2011 event a success. 4. Blind People Gather as Blind Man Prepares to Drive at Daytona January 31, 2011 http://www.suite101.com/content/blind-people-gather-as-blind-man-prepares-to-drive-at-daytona-a341046 Blind Florida writer shares his thoughts from Daytona as blind fans gather before the Blind Driver Challenge ™ demo at Daytona Speedway on Jan. 29, 2011. 5. Florida Writer Sees History at Daytona as Blind Man Drives Solo February 1, 2011 http://www.suite101.com/content/florida-writer-sees-history-at-daytona-as-blind-man-drives-solo-a341320 Bill Outman shares his thoughts from Daytona as a blind man drives a road-worthy American car in public at Daytona Speedway. -- Read Donna's articles on Suite 101: www.suite101.com/profile.cfm/donna_hill Ezine Articles: http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=D._W._Hill American Chronicle: www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3885 Connect with Donna on Twitter: www.twitter.com/dewhill LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/dwh99 FaceBook: www.facebook.com/donna.w.hill. Hear clips from "The Last Straw" at: cdbaby.com/cd/donnahill Apple I-Tunes phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=259244374 Check out the "Sound in Sight" CD project Donna is Head of Media Relations for the nonprofit Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind: www.padnfb.org From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Fri Feb 4 01:20:06 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 17:20:06 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up the survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are just normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x in braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting time trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of them saying about us.) Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's banquet speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating people about blindness. Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's worth. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >Completely agree. >Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of private stuff? >1 the general public doesn't care, >and >2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore baseless. >The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. >Jorge >On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: >> Joe, >> I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top of the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them into wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did virtually. >> Beth >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age range is >> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we really don't >> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to accomplish. >> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What does >> trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From what little >> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes there is >> something inherently different in blind people that would make sex education >> a special circumstance for this population. >> Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex different because >> you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge to figuring >> out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your friends did not >> fill in the gaps? >> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's important to >> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of intercourse >> as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: Why? >> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind people learn >> about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim it's everyday >> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred from >> equally participating in certain activities. >> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind people feed >> into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they need to defend >> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. The >> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of unique >> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples the second >> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're not going >> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a hypothesis. It's >> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the research in >> the first place. >> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly ask: Why are >> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with a blind >> person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all been in >> situations where we feared too many questions would be just plain rude. >> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds if we're not >> supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex with the >> general public. There are things for which you do not need to make a >> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target of your >> natural instincts. >> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the same >> context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain humans who >> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive the victims as >> easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding solutions. >> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a victim of >> society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the resources >> to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of the latter, >> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel pressured to send >> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be laughable. >> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books about sexual >> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent preaching could >> have been spent...But, I digress. >> We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured into >> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are plenty of >> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and as far as >> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public for whom the >> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the people who cut >> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I learned about >> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic speculation, >> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone else. >> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to the urge to >> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the professor here >> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's something >> there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to being >> educated. >> Regards, >> Joe >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae z%40mac.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 01:27:52 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:27:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> References: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> Message-ID: Or we can completely miss the point... On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto wrote: > everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just > like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up the > survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are just > normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that > message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x in > braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting time > trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial > own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of them > saying about us.) > Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so > that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that > these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National > Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's banquet > speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating people > about blindness. > Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but > inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's worth. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > >> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >> > > Completely agree. >> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of >> > private stuff? > > 1 the general public doesn't care, >> > > and >> > > 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore >> > baseless. > > The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are >> > the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. > > > > Jorge >> > > > On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: >> > > Joe, >>> I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the >>> >> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste > paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top of > the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them into > wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did virtually. > >> Beth >>> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >> >> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >>> >> > For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age >>> >> range is > >> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we >>> >> really don't > >> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to >>> >> accomplish. > >> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What >>> >> does > >> trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From >>> >> what little > >> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes >>> >> there is > >> something inherently different in blind people that would make >>> >> sex education > >> a special circumstance for this population. >>> >> > Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex >>> >> different because > >> you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge >>> >> to figuring > >> out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your >>> >> friends did not > >> fill in the gaps? >>> >> > Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's >>> >> important to > >> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of >>> >> intercourse > >> as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: >>> >> Why? > >> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind >>> >> people learn > >> about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim >>> >> it's everyday > >> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred >>> >> from > >> equally participating in certain activities. >>> >> > This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind >>> >> people feed > >> into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they >>> >> need to defend > >> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. >>> >> The > >> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of >>> >> unique > >> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples >>> >> the second > >> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're >>> >> not going > >> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a >>> >> hypothesis. It's > >> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the >>> >> research in > >> the first place. >>> >> > Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly >>> >> ask: Why are > >> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with >>> >> a blind > >> person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all >>> >> been in > >> situations where we feared too many questions would be just >>> >> plain rude. > >> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds >>> >> if we're not > >> supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex >>> >> with the > >> general public. There are things for which you do not need to >>> >> make a > >> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target >>> >> of your > >> natural instincts. >>> >> > Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the >>> >> same > >> context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain >>> >> humans who > >> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive >>> >> the victims as > >> easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding >>> >> solutions. > > But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a >>> >> victim of > >> society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the >>> >> resources > >> to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of >>> >> the latter, > >> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel >>> >> pressured to send > >> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be >>> >> laughable. > >> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books >>> >> about sexual > >> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent >>> >> preaching could > >> have been spent...But, I digress. >>> >> > We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured >>> >> into > >> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are >>> >> plenty of > >> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and >>> >> as far as > >> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public >>> >> for whom the > >> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the >>> >> people who cut > >> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I >>> >> learned about > >> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic >>> >> speculation, > >> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone >>> >> else. > > Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to >>> >> the urge to > >> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the >>> >> professor here > >> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's >>> >> something > >> there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to >>> >> being > >> educated. >>> >> > Regards, >>> >> > Joe >>> >> > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>> >> their sleeves, > >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>> >> Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> >> info for nabs-l: > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > >> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> >> info for nabs-l: > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae > z%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> > 5369%40netzero.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Fri Feb 4 01:34:17 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:34:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> Message-ID: Jamie: Please tone down a bit. This isn't a question that goes against inqury--it just asks weather this inquiry is needed and weather it is, indeed, to the public's benefit. And, to talk in your own lango, Science's aim is only and exclusively for the benefit of the public. Isn't it? Therefore, does this breach what brings benefit to the public? How would this benefit anyone? Defend your case well and I'd be willing to listen, but seriously, back yourself with some data or reason, please. On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: > Or we can completely miss the point... > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto wrote: > >> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just >> like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up the >> survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are just >> normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that >> message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x in >> braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting time >> trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial >> own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of them >> saying about us.) >> Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so >> that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that >> these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National >> Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's banquet >> speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating people >> about blindness. >> Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but >> inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's worth. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> > >>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >>> >> >> Completely agree. >>> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of >>> >> private stuff? >> >> 1 the general public doesn't care, >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore >>> >> baseless. >> >> The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are >>> >> the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. >> >> >> >> Jorge >>> >> >> >> On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: >>> >> >> Joe, >>>> I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the >>>> >>> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste >> paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top of >> the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them into >> wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did virtually. >> >>> Beth >>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>> > >>> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >>>> >>> >> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age >>>> >>> range is >> >>> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we >>>> >>> really don't >> >>> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to >>>> >>> accomplish. >> >>> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What >>>> >>> does >> >>> trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From >>>> >>> what little >> >>> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes >>>> >>> there is >> >>> something inherently different in blind people that would make >>>> >>> sex education >> >>> a special circumstance for this population. >>>> >>> >> Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex >>>> >>> different because >> >>> you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge >>>> >>> to figuring >> >>> out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your >>>> >>> friends did not >> >>> fill in the gaps? >>>> >>> >> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's >>>> >>> important to >> >>> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of >>>> >>> intercourse >> >>> as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: >>>> >>> Why? >> >>> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind >>>> >>> people learn >> >>> about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim >>>> >>> it's everyday >> >>> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred >>>> >>> from >> >>> equally participating in certain activities. >>>> >>> >> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind >>>> >>> people feed >> >>> into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they >>>> >>> need to defend >> >>> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. >>>> >>> The >> >>> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of >>>> >>> unique >> >>> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples >>>> >>> the second >> >>> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're >>>> >>> not going >> >>> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a >>>> >>> hypothesis. It's >> >>> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the >>>> >>> research in >> >>> the first place. >>>> >>> >> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly >>>> >>> ask: Why are >> >>> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with >>>> >>> a blind >> >>> person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all >>>> >>> been in >> >>> situations where we feared too many questions would be just >>>> >>> plain rude. >> >>> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds >>>> >>> if we're not >> >>> supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex >>>> >>> with the >> >>> general public. There are things for which you do not need to >>>> >>> make a >> >>> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target >>>> >>> of your >> >>> natural instincts. >>>> >>> >> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the >>>> >>> same >> >>> context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain >>>> >>> humans who >> >>> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive >>>> >>> the victims as >> >>> easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding >>>> >>> solutions. >> >> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a >>>> >>> victim of >> >>> society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the >>>> >>> resources >> >>> to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of >>>> >>> the latter, >> >>> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel >>>> >>> pressured to send >> >>> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be >>>> >>> laughable. >> >>> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books >>>> >>> about sexual >> >>> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent >>>> >>> preaching could >> >>> have been spent...But, I digress. >>>> >>> >> We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured >>>> >>> into >> >>> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are >>>> >>> plenty of >> >>> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and >>>> >>> as far as >> >>> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public >>>> >>> for whom the >> >>> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the >>>> >>> people who cut >> >>> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I >>>> >>> learned about >> >>> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic >>>> >>> speculation, >> >>> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone >>>> >>> else. >> >> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to >>>> >>> the urge to >> >>> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the >>>> >>> professor here >> >>> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's >>>> >>> something >> >>> there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to >>>> >>> being >> >>> educated. >>>> >>> >> Regards, >>>> >>> >> Joe >>>> >>> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>>> >>> their sleeves, >> >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>>> >>> Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>> info for nabs-l: >> >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>> info for nabs-l: >> >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae >> z%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >> for nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>> >> 5369%40netzero.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 02:00:45 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 21:00:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> Message-ID: If there is in fact a significant difference between sighted and blind young adults in terms of acquisition of accurate sex-related knowledge, would it not benefit the community for this to be known, and for it to be addressed? That which can be destroyed by the truth should be, whether it's a misconception made by sighted people or a generalization made by a few well educated blind people. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Jamie: > Please tone down a bit. > > This isn't a question that goes against inqury--it just asks weather this > inquiry is needed and weather it is, indeed, to the public's benefit. > > > And, to talk in your own lango, Science's aim is only and exclusively for > the benefit of the public. > > Isn't it? > > Therefore, does this breach what brings benefit to the public? > > How would this benefit anyone? > > Defend your case well and I'd be willing to listen, > but seriously, back yourself with some data or reason, please. > > > On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: > > > Or we can completely miss the point... > > > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto > wrote: > > > >> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just > >> like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up the > >> survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are just > >> normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that > >> message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x in > >> braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting > time > >> trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial > >> own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of > them > >> saying about us.) > >> Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so > >> that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that > >> these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National > >> Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's > banquet > >> speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating > people > >> about blindness. > >> Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but > >> inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's worth. > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> > >> >> > >>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500 > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter > >>> > >> > >> Completely agree. > >>> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of > >>> > >> private stuff? > >> > >> 1 the general public doesn't care, > >>> > >> > >> and > >>> > >> > >> 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore > >>> > >> baseless. > >> > >> The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are > >>> > >> the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jorge > >>> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: > >>> > >> > >> Joe, > >>>> I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the > >>>> > >>> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste > >> paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top > of > >> the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them > into > >> wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did > virtually. > >> > >>> Beth > >>>> > >>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>> > >>> >> > >>> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter > >>>> > >>> > >> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age > >>>> > >>> range is > >> > >>> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we > >>>> > >>> really don't > >> > >>> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to > >>>> > >>> accomplish. > >> > >>> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What > >>>> > >>> does > >> > >>> trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From > >>>> > >>> what little > >> > >>> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes > >>>> > >>> there is > >> > >>> something inherently different in blind people that would make > >>>> > >>> sex education > >> > >>> a special circumstance for this population. > >>>> > >>> > >> Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex > >>>> > >>> different because > >> > >>> you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge > >>>> > >>> to figuring > >> > >>> out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your > >>>> > >>> friends did not > >> > >>> fill in the gaps? > >>>> > >>> > >> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's > >>>> > >>> important to > >> > >>> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of > >>>> > >>> intercourse > >> > >>> as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: > >>>> > >>> Why? > >> > >>> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind > >>>> > >>> people learn > >> > >>> about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim > >>>> > >>> it's everyday > >> > >>> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred > >>>> > >>> from > >> > >>> equally participating in certain activities. > >>>> > >>> > >> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind > >>>> > >>> people feed > >> > >>> into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they > >>>> > >>> need to defend > >> > >>> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. > >>>> > >>> The > >> > >>> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of > >>>> > >>> unique > >> > >>> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples > >>>> > >>> the second > >> > >>> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're > >>>> > >>> not going > >> > >>> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a > >>>> > >>> hypothesis. It's > >> > >>> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the > >>>> > >>> research in > >> > >>> the first place. > >>>> > >>> > >> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly > >>>> > >>> ask: Why are > >> > >>> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with > >>>> > >>> a blind > >> > >>> person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all > >>>> > >>> been in > >> > >>> situations where we feared too many questions would be just > >>>> > >>> plain rude. > >> > >>> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds > >>>> > >>> if we're not > >> > >>> supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex > >>>> > >>> with the > >> > >>> general public. There are things for which you do not need to > >>>> > >>> make a > >> > >>> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target > >>>> > >>> of your > >> > >>> natural instincts. > >>>> > >>> > >> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the > >>>> > >>> same > >> > >>> context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain > >>>> > >>> humans who > >> > >>> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive > >>>> > >>> the victims as > >> > >>> easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding > >>>> > >>> solutions. > >> > >> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a > >>>> > >>> victim of > >> > >>> society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the > >>>> > >>> resources > >> > >>> to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of > >>>> > >>> the latter, > >> > >>> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel > >>>> > >>> pressured to send > >> > >>> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be > >>>> > >>> laughable. > >> > >>> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books > >>>> > >>> about sexual > >> > >>> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent > >>>> > >>> preaching could > >> > >>> have been spent...But, I digress. > >>>> > >>> > >> We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured > >>>> > >>> into > >> > >>> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are > >>>> > >>> plenty of > >> > >>> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and > >>>> > >>> as far as > >> > >>> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public > >>>> > >>> for whom the > >> > >>> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the > >>>> > >>> people who cut > >> > >>> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I > >>>> > >>> learned about > >> > >>> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic > >>>> > >>> speculation, > >> > >>> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone > >>>> > >>> else. > >> > >> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to > >>>> > >>> the urge to > >> > >>> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the > >>>> > >>> professor here > >> > >>> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's > >>>> > >>> something > >> > >>> there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to > >>>> > >>> being > >> > >>> educated. > >>>> > >>> > >> Regards, > >>>> > >>> > >> Joe > >>>> > >>> > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > >>>> > >>> their sleeves, > >> > >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > >>>> > >>> Ewing > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>> > >>> info for nabs-l: > >> > >>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > >> > >>> sloose%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>> > >>> info for nabs-l: > >> > >>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae > >> z%40mac.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> > >> for nabs-l: > >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > >>> > >> 5369%40netzero.net > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 02:13:54 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 19:13:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> Message-ID: Hi all, As a student of experimental psychology and as someone who aspires to do research on issues affecting blind people, I have definitely seen my share of blindness research that is demeaning and needlessly grim and pessimistic. This comes from many problems including problems with the initial research questions being asked, interpretations of data that paint an overly grim picture of blindness, and studies that are poorly designed. My gut reaction to this study was similar to many of yours in that I am also not sure why the sex knowledge of blind people should differ in meaningful ways from the sex knowledge of the general population. However, I strongly believe that if we want to effect any change, we should not only take the survey if we meet the criteria, but whether or not we meet the criteria we should take the researchers up on their request for feedback and, after reviewing the survey items, share our concerns and suggestions with them. Like Jamie said, science is self-correcting. Those of us who had positive and equal experiences with sexuality should share our data with the researchers so the data they gather is accurate and representative. Boycotting the study is not going to improve the accuracy of the data collected or the conclusions drawn from them. Furthermore, I believe one of the main reasons why blindness research continues to be so demeaning is because there is little real dialogue between the sighted researchers and actual blind people. I believe that any researcher worth anything would be glad to hear from potential subjects and gain a deeper insight into the issues being studied by talking with them directly. If you think the hypotheses are completely off-track or the research questions being asked might have bad implications for the blind community, share your thoughts with the researchers and perhaps offer suggestions for different kinds of research questions that might be more productive for them to study. They may or may not accept the feedback, but a good researcher will listen to a clear message that his/her hypothesis is problematic, and will not want to waste time and money chasing a hypothesis that is unlikely to be supported. Your dialogue might inform the researchers about angles of the issue they haven't even thought about before. If nothing else, it would be worthwhile to find out what their predictions are and what they hope to do with this information before jumping to conclusions. Arielle On 2/3/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Jamie: > Please tone down a bit. > > This isn't a question that goes against inqury--it just asks weather this > inquiry is needed and weather it is, indeed, to the public's benefit. > > > And, to talk in your own lango, Science's aim is only and exclusively for > the benefit of the public. > > Isn't it? > > Therefore, does this breach what brings benefit to the public? > > How would this benefit anyone? > > Defend your case well and I'd be willing to listen, > but seriously, back yourself with some data or reason, please. > > > On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: > >> Or we can completely miss the point... >> >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto >> wrote: >> >>> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just >>> like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up the >>> survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are just >>> normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that >>> message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x in >>> braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting >>> time >>> trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial >>> own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of them >>> saying about us.) >>> Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so >>> that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that >>> these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National >>> Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's >>> banquet >>> speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating >>> people >>> about blindness. >>> Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but >>> inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's worth. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> >> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >>>> >>> >>> Completely agree. >>>> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of >>>> >>> private stuff? >>> >>> 1 the general public doesn't care, >>>> >>> >>> and >>>> >>> >>> 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore >>>> >>> baseless. >>> >>> The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are >>>> >>> the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge >>>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: >>>> >>> >>> Joe, >>>>> I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the >>>>> >>>> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste >>> paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top >>> of >>> the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them >>> into >>> wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did >>> virtually. >>> >>>> Beth >>>>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>> >> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >>>>> >>>> >>> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age >>>>> >>>> range is >>> >>>> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we >>>>> >>>> really don't >>> >>>> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to >>>>> >>>> accomplish. >>> >>>> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What >>>>> >>>> does >>> >>>> trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From >>>>> >>>> what little >>> >>>> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes >>>>> >>>> there is >>> >>>> something inherently different in blind people that would make >>>>> >>>> sex education >>> >>>> a special circumstance for this population. >>>>> >>>> >>> Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex >>>>> >>>> different because >>> >>>> you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge >>>>> >>>> to figuring >>> >>>> out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your >>>>> >>>> friends did not >>> >>>> fill in the gaps? >>>>> >>>> >>> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's >>>>> >>>> important to >>> >>>> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of >>>>> >>>> intercourse >>> >>>> as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: >>>>> >>>> Why? >>> >>>> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind >>>>> >>>> people learn >>> >>>> about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim >>>>> >>>> it's everyday >>> >>>> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred >>>>> >>>> from >>> >>>> equally participating in certain activities. >>>>> >>>> >>> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind >>>>> >>>> people feed >>> >>>> into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they >>>>> >>>> need to defend >>> >>>> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. >>>>> >>>> The >>> >>>> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of >>>>> >>>> unique >>> >>>> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples >>>>> >>>> the second >>> >>>> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're >>>>> >>>> not going >>> >>>> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a >>>>> >>>> hypothesis. It's >>> >>>> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the >>>>> >>>> research in >>> >>>> the first place. >>>>> >>>> >>> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly >>>>> >>>> ask: Why are >>> >>>> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with >>>>> >>>> a blind >>> >>>> person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all >>>>> >>>> been in >>> >>>> situations where we feared too many questions would be just >>>>> >>>> plain rude. >>> >>>> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds >>>>> >>>> if we're not >>> >>>> supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex >>>>> >>>> with the >>> >>>> general public. There are things for which you do not need to >>>>> >>>> make a >>> >>>> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target >>>>> >>>> of your >>> >>>> natural instincts. >>>>> >>>> >>> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the >>>>> >>>> same >>> >>>> context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain >>>>> >>>> humans who >>> >>>> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive >>>>> >>>> the victims as >>> >>>> easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding >>>>> >>>> solutions. >>> >>> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a >>>>> >>>> victim of >>> >>>> society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the >>>>> >>>> resources >>> >>>> to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of >>>>> >>>> the latter, >>> >>>> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel >>>>> >>>> pressured to send >>> >>>> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be >>>>> >>>> laughable. >>> >>>> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books >>>>> >>>> about sexual >>> >>>> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent >>>>> >>>> preaching could >>> >>>> have been spent...But, I digress. >>>>> >>>> >>> We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured >>>>> >>>> into >>> >>>> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are >>>>> >>>> plenty of >>> >>>> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and >>>>> >>>> as far as >>> >>>> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public >>>>> >>>> for whom the >>> >>>> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the >>>>> >>>> people who cut >>> >>>> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I >>>>> >>>> learned about >>> >>>> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic >>>>> >>>> speculation, >>> >>>> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone >>>>> >>>> else. >>> >>> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to >>>>> >>>> the urge to >>> >>>> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the >>>>> >>>> professor here >>> >>>> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's >>>>> >>>> something >>> >>>> there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to >>>>> >>>> being >>> >>>> educated. >>>>> >>>> >>> Regards, >>>>> >>>> >>> Joe >>>>> >>>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>>>> >>>> their sleeves, >>> >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>>>> >>>> Ewing >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> >>>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> >>>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae >>> z%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>> >>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 02:20:43 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 21:20:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> Message-ID: Well said, Arielle. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As a student of experimental psychology and as someone who aspires to > do research on issues affecting blind people, I have definitely seen > my share of blindness research that is demeaning and needlessly grim > and pessimistic. This comes from many problems including problems with > the initial research questions being asked, interpretations of data > that paint an overly grim picture of blindness, and studies that are > poorly designed. My gut reaction to this study was similar to many of > yours in that I am also not sure why the sex knowledge of blind people > should differ in meaningful ways from the sex knowledge of the general > population. However, I strongly believe that if we want to effect any > change, we should not only take the survey if we meet the criteria, > but whether or not we meet the criteria we should take the researchers > up on their request for feedback and, after reviewing the survey > items, share our concerns and suggestions with them. Like Jamie said, > science is self-correcting. Those of us who had positive and equal > experiences with sexuality should share our data with the researchers > so the data they gather is accurate and representative. Boycotting the > study is not going to improve the accuracy of the data collected or > the conclusions drawn from them. Furthermore, I believe one of the > main reasons why blindness research continues to be so demeaning is > because there is little real dialogue between the sighted researchers > and actual blind people. I believe that any researcher worth anything > would be glad to hear from potential subjects and gain a deeper > insight into the issues being studied by talking with them directly. > If you think the hypotheses are completely off-track or the research > questions being asked might have bad implications for the blind > community, share your thoughts with the researchers and perhaps offer > suggestions for different kinds of research questions that might be > more productive for them to study. They may or may not accept the > feedback, but a good researcher will listen to a clear message that > his/her hypothesis is problematic, and will not want to waste time and > money chasing a hypothesis that is unlikely to be supported. Your > dialogue might inform the researchers about angles of the issue they > haven't even thought about before. If nothing else, it would be > worthwhile to find out what their predictions are and what they hope > to do with this information before jumping to conclusions. > > Arielle > > On 2/3/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > Jamie: > > Please tone down a bit. > > > > This isn't a question that goes against inqury--it just asks weather this > > inquiry is needed and weather it is, indeed, to the public's benefit. > > > > > > And, to talk in your own lango, Science's aim is only and exclusively for > > the benefit of the public. > > > > Isn't it? > > > > Therefore, does this breach what brings benefit to the public? > > > > How would this benefit anyone? > > > > Defend your case well and I'd be willing to listen, > > but seriously, back yourself with some data or reason, please. > > > > > > On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: > > > >> Or we can completely miss the point... > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto > >> wrote: > >> > >>> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just > >>> like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up > the > >>> survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are > just > >>> normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that > >>> message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x > in > >>> braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting > >>> time > >>> trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial > >>> own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of > them > >>> saying about us.) > >>> Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so > >>> that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that > >>> these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National > >>> Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's > >>> banquet > >>> speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating > >>> people > >>> about blindness. > >>> Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but > >>> inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's > worth. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> > >>> >>> > >>>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500 > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter > >>>> > >>> > >>> Completely agree. > >>>> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of > >>>> > >>> private stuff? > >>> > >>> 1 the general public doesn't care, > >>>> > >>> > >>> and > >>>> > >>> > >>> 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore > >>>> > >>> baseless. > >>> > >>> The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are > >>>> > >>> the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Jorge > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: > >>>> > >>> > >>> Joe, > >>>>> I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the > >>>>> > >>>> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste > >>> paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top > >>> of > >>> the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them > >>> into > >>> wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did > >>> virtually. > >>> > >>>> Beth > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >>>>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 > >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age > >>>>> > >>>> range is > >>> > >>>> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we > >>>>> > >>>> really don't > >>> > >>>> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to > >>>>> > >>>> accomplish. > >>> > >>>> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What > >>>>> > >>>> does > >>> > >>>> trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From > >>>>> > >>>> what little > >>> > >>>> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes > >>>>> > >>>> there is > >>> > >>>> something inherently different in blind people that would make > >>>>> > >>>> sex education > >>> > >>>> a special circumstance for this population. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex > >>>>> > >>>> different because > >>> > >>>> you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge > >>>>> > >>>> to figuring > >>> > >>>> out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your > >>>>> > >>>> friends did not > >>> > >>>> fill in the gaps? > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's > >>>>> > >>>> important to > >>> > >>>> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of > >>>>> > >>>> intercourse > >>> > >>>> as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: > >>>>> > >>>> Why? > >>> > >>>> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind > >>>>> > >>>> people learn > >>> > >>>> about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim > >>>>> > >>>> it's everyday > >>> > >>>> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred > >>>>> > >>>> from > >>> > >>>> equally participating in certain activities. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind > >>>>> > >>>> people feed > >>> > >>>> into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they > >>>>> > >>>> need to defend > >>> > >>>> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. > >>>>> > >>>> The > >>> > >>>> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of > >>>>> > >>>> unique > >>> > >>>> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples > >>>>> > >>>> the second > >>> > >>>> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're > >>>>> > >>>> not going > >>> > >>>> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a > >>>>> > >>>> hypothesis. It's > >>> > >>>> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the > >>>>> > >>>> research in > >>> > >>>> the first place. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly > >>>>> > >>>> ask: Why are > >>> > >>>> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with > >>>>> > >>>> a blind > >>> > >>>> person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all > >>>>> > >>>> been in > >>> > >>>> situations where we feared too many questions would be just > >>>>> > >>>> plain rude. > >>> > >>>> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds > >>>>> > >>>> if we're not > >>> > >>>> supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex > >>>>> > >>>> with the > >>> > >>>> general public. There are things for which you do not need to > >>>>> > >>>> make a > >>> > >>>> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target > >>>>> > >>>> of your > >>> > >>>> natural instincts. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the > >>>>> > >>>> same > >>> > >>>> context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain > >>>>> > >>>> humans who > >>> > >>>> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive > >>>>> > >>>> the victims as > >>> > >>>> easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding > >>>>> > >>>> solutions. > >>> > >>> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a > >>>>> > >>>> victim of > >>> > >>>> society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the > >>>>> > >>>> resources > >>> > >>>> to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of > >>>>> > >>>> the latter, > >>> > >>>> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel > >>>>> > >>>> pressured to send > >>> > >>>> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be > >>>>> > >>>> laughable. > >>> > >>>> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books > >>>>> > >>>> about sexual > >>> > >>>> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent > >>>>> > >>>> preaching could > >>> > >>>> have been spent...But, I digress. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured > >>>>> > >>>> into > >>> > >>>> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are > >>>>> > >>>> plenty of > >>> > >>>> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and > >>>>> > >>>> as far as > >>> > >>>> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public > >>>>> > >>>> for whom the > >>> > >>>> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the > >>>>> > >>>> people who cut > >>> > >>>> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I > >>>>> > >>>> learned about > >>> > >>>> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic > >>>>> > >>>> speculation, > >>> > >>>> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone > >>>>> > >>>> else. > >>> > >>> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to > >>>>> > >>>> the urge to > >>> > >>>> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the > >>>>> > >>>> professor here > >>> > >>>> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's > >>>>> > >>>> something > >>> > >>>> there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to > >>>>> > >>>> being > >>> > >>>> educated. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> Regards, > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> Joe > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > >>>>> > >>>> their sleeves, > >>> > >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > >>>>> > >>>> Ewing > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>> > >>>> info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > >>> > >>>> sloose%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > >>>>> > >>>> info for nabs-l: > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae > >>> z%40mac.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>> > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > >>>> > >>> 5369%40netzero.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 02:24:20 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 18:24:20 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Sex study In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridgit, I think thepoints you bring up are valid and very important to consider forthose who will take part in this research (I would love to hear from such folks on this list). Jamie: I appreciate your scientific point of view here in that science naturally self-corrects. If the information you gather for your study (no matter what the study is) is accurate, and the testing methods are sound, then you should get the correct information. It's important to point out, that the "correct: information is nto always the information you think it's going to be. I'm sure this post could go tend different ways from this point, but I am going to hault my thoughts on it and express appreciation for everyone's ideas on the matter- I've enjoyed the lively conversations that carried some thoughtful discussion here. Best, Darian On 2/3/11, Jamie Principato wrote: > Clearly the research question these scientists have is not "What knowledge > do people 18-20 have about sex?" There have already been studies conducted > to that end. This study asks the more specific question, "What knowledge do > blind people age 18-20 have about sex?" It presumably wants to see whether > or not the result is different from what has previously been found to be the > norm. If there is a statistically significant difference, one could presume > they would then seek to determine why, perhaps looking at possible barriers > to sex education in public schools (at least, that's where I'd look first), > and once they identify possible sources of the difference, they may continue > by examining ways to make a difference. This is how science works, but > science is self correcting. If there is no difference, the research will > probably not continue in this manner. > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter > wrote: > >> Darian, >> >> I agree with you, but I guess I wonder why it is important to study >> blind people and not all people 18 to 20 years of age. >> >> I think it is important to learn how and when we gain this knowledge, >> and I am a supporter of sex education. This is a topic that affects all >> people though. Based solely on the information stated in the sex survy >> email, they seem to be focusing their study on blind individuals. I >> simply wonder what the importance of this detail is, and why the study >> is not concerned with all people in that age bracket, or outside that >> bracket for that matter. >> >> I apologize for starting any controversy on the list. As someone out of >> my twenties, I hoped to urge anyone to think about their actions before >> engaging in such a study. I did not mean to suggest this study was >> harmful, but I wanted to caution. >> >> There are a lot of questions, too, that I feel surround this study. We >> know, even recently, studies and surveys have been conducted that did >> not do anything to help those who are blind, and were based on >> stereotypes and negative perceptions. Anyone remember the special yoga >> mat for the blind? >> >> So sorry for causing any problems. I merely hoped to begin a dialogue >> that would make us think-- not judge, just think. >> >> Bridgit P >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 02:26:17 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:26:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Of things that matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joe, Here, here. You said, much mor eloquently, what I have been trying to express. True, it is a bit irrelevent what we think and feel on the subject as it does not advance or educate on anything important to blind people. Way to be active and investigate the reasoning behind such a study. Bridgit Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Cc: gkapperman at niu.edu Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age range is limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we really don't have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to accomplish. And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What does trouble me is the validity people have given the project. >From what little we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes there is something inherently different in blind people that would make sex education a special circumstance for this population. Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex different because you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge to figuring out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your friends did not fill in the gaps? Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's important to educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of intercourse as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: Why? Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind people learn about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim it's everyday advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred from equally participating in certain activities. This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind people feed into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they need to defend themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. The research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of unique examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples the second we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're not going to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a hypothesis. It's about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the research in the first place. Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly ask: Why are sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with a blind person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all been in situations where we feared too many questions would be just plain rude. Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds if we're not supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex with the general public. There are things for which you do not need to make a statement to make happen with the one person that is the target of your natural instincts. Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the same context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain humans who force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive the victims as easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding solutions. But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a victim of society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the resources to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of the latter, however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel pressured to send a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be laughable. Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books about sexual equality irritate me because all that time that was spent preaching could have been spent...But, I digress. We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured into dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are plenty of fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and as far as I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public for whom the extra mile is required are the people you call family, the people who cut your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I learned about and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic speculation, because my disability does not make me any different from anyone else. Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to the urge to fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the professor here in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's something there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to being educated. Regards, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing ------------------------------ From jorgeapaez at mac.com Fri Feb 4 02:35:01 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 21:35:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> Message-ID: <85B7171A-C605-4BC6-A086-1575D206516B@mac.com> Fair point Arielle. I agree--though I'm a bit more skeptical, if only because these sorts of studies tend to have prejudgements. Hope you're right though. Jorge On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:13 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As a student of experimental psychology and as someone who aspires to > do research on issues affecting blind people, I have definitely seen > my share of blindness research that is demeaning and needlessly grim > and pessimistic. This comes from many problems including problems with > the initial research questions being asked, interpretations of data > that paint an overly grim picture of blindness, and studies that are > poorly designed. My gut reaction to this study was similar to many of > yours in that I am also not sure why the sex knowledge of blind people > should differ in meaningful ways from the sex knowledge of the general > population. However, I strongly believe that if we want to effect any > change, we should not only take the survey if we meet the criteria, > but whether or not we meet the criteria we should take the researchers > up on their request for feedback and, after reviewing the survey > items, share our concerns and suggestions with them. Like Jamie said, > science is self-correcting. Those of us who had positive and equal > experiences with sexuality should share our data with the researchers > so the data they gather is accurate and representative. Boycotting the > study is not going to improve the accuracy of the data collected or > the conclusions drawn from them. Furthermore, I believe one of the > main reasons why blindness research continues to be so demeaning is > because there is little real dialogue between the sighted researchers > and actual blind people. I believe that any researcher worth anything > would be glad to hear from potential subjects and gain a deeper > insight into the issues being studied by talking with them directly. > If you think the hypotheses are completely off-track or the research > questions being asked might have bad implications for the blind > community, share your thoughts with the researchers and perhaps offer > suggestions for different kinds of research questions that might be > more productive for them to study. They may or may not accept the > feedback, but a good researcher will listen to a clear message that > his/her hypothesis is problematic, and will not want to waste time and > money chasing a hypothesis that is unlikely to be supported. Your > dialogue might inform the researchers about angles of the issue they > haven't even thought about before. If nothing else, it would be > worthwhile to find out what their predictions are and what they hope > to do with this information before jumping to conclusions. > > Arielle > > On 2/3/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Jamie: >> Please tone down a bit. >> >> This isn't a question that goes against inqury--it just asks weather this >> inquiry is needed and weather it is, indeed, to the public's benefit. >> >> >> And, to talk in your own lango, Science's aim is only and exclusively for >> the benefit of the public. >> >> Isn't it? >> >> Therefore, does this breach what brings benefit to the public? >> >> How would this benefit anyone? >> >> Defend your case well and I'd be willing to listen, >> but seriously, back yourself with some data or reason, please. >> >> >> On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: >> >>> Or we can completely miss the point... >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto >>> wrote: >>> >>>> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just >>>> like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up the >>>> survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are just >>>> normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that >>>> message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x in >>>> braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting >>>> time >>>> trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial >>>> own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of them >>>> saying about us.) >>>> Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so >>>> that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that >>>> these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National >>>> Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's >>>> banquet >>>> speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating >>>> people >>>> about blindness. >>>> Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but >>>> inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's worth. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> >>> >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >>>>> >>>> >>>> Completely agree. >>>>> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of >>>>> >>>> private stuff? >>>> >>>> 1 the general public doesn't care, >>>>> >>>> >>>> and >>>>> >>>> >>>> 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore >>>>> >>>> baseless. >>>> >>>> The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are >>>>> >>>> the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>> Joe, >>>>>> I agree with all the stuff you are saying. I think the >>>>>> >>>>> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste >>>> paper baket of .. well, wastepaper. Crumpled up receipts can go on top >>>> of >>>> the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them >>>> into >>>> wastepaper basket). IF only I could do what I think I just did >>>> virtually. >>>> >>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant. The age >>>>>> >>>>> range is >>>> >>>>> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we >>>>>> >>>>> really don't >>>> >>>>> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to >>>>>> >>>>> accomplish. >>>> >>>>> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey? What >>>>>> >>>>> does >>>> >>>>> trouble me is the validity people have given the project. From >>>>>> >>>>> what little >>>> >>>>> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes >>>>>> >>>>> there is >>>> >>>>> something inherently different in blind people that would make >>>>>> >>>>> sex education >>>> >>>>> a special circumstance for this population. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> Maybe I'm missing something. Is your perception of sex >>>>>> >>>>> different because >>>> >>>>> you're blind? Was your inability to see a significant challenge >>>>>> >>>>> to figuring >>>> >>>>> out how it works? Was your childhood so isolated that your >>>>>> >>>>> friends did not >>>> >>>>> fill in the gaps? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke. You say it's >>>>>> >>>>> important to >>>> >>>>> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of >>>>>> >>>>> intercourse >>>> >>>>> as anyone else. The million-dollar question is quite simply: >>>>>> >>>>> Why? >>>> >>>>> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind >>>>>> >>>>> people learn >>>> >>>>> about sex the same as any other adolescent. You could claim >>>>>> >>>>> it's everyday >>>> >>>>> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred >>>>>> >>>>> from >>>> >>>>> equally participating in certain activities. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind >>>>>> >>>>> people feed >>>> >>>>> into public misconceptions. It makes blind people feel they >>>>>> >>>>> need to defend >>>> >>>>> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary. >>>>>> >>>>> The >>>> >>>>> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of >>>>>> >>>>> unique >>>> >>>>> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples >>>>>> >>>>> the second >>>> >>>>> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment. You're >>>>>> >>>>> not going >>>> >>>>> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a >>>>>> >>>>> hypothesis. It's >>>> >>>>> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the >>>>>> >>>>> research in >>>> >>>>> the first place. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly >>>>>> >>>>> ask: Why are >>>> >>>>> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with >>>>>> >>>>> a blind >>>> >>>>> person? My educated guess is fear of the unknown. We have all >>>>>> >>>>> been in >>>> >>>>> situations where we feared too many questions would be just >>>>>> >>>>> plain rude. >>>> >>>>> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds >>>>>> >>>>> if we're not >>>> >>>>> supposed to advocate? Remember, you're not trying to have sex >>>>>> >>>>> with the >>>> >>>>> general public. There are things for which you do not need to >>>>>> >>>>> make a >>>> >>>>> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target >>>>>> >>>>> of your >>>> >>>>> natural instincts. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the >>>>>> >>>>> same >>>> >>>>> context? Certainly. We should examine the depravity of certain >>>>>> >>>>> humans who >>>> >>>>> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive >>>>>> >>>>> the victims as >>>> >>>>> easy prey. This is an idea worth investigating and finding >>>>>> >>>>> solutions. >>>> >>>> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a >>>>>> >>>>> victim of >>>> >>>>> society. In the case of the former, one may not always have the >>>>>> >>>>> resources >>>> >>>>> to protect oneself against the circumstances. In the case of >>>>>> >>>>> the latter, >>>> >>>>> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel >>>>>> >>>>> pressured to send >>>> >>>>> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be >>>>>> >>>>> laughable. >>>> >>>>> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books >>>>>> >>>>> about sexual >>>> >>>>> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent >>>>>> >>>>> preaching could >>>> >>>>> have been spent...But, I digress. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> We need to keep things in perspective. We need to not be lured >>>>>> >>>>> into >>>> >>>>> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality. There are >>>>>> >>>>> plenty of >>>> >>>>> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and >>>>>> >>>>> as far as >>>> >>>>> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public >>>>>> >>>>> for whom the >>>> >>>>> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the >>>>>> >>>>> people who cut >>>> >>>>> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama. How I >>>>>> >>>>> learned about >>>> >>>>> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic >>>>>> >>>>> speculation, >>>> >>>>> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone >>>>>> >>>>> else. >>>> >>>> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to >>>>>> >>>>> the urge to >>>> >>>>> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction. I am copying the >>>>>> >>>>> professor here >>>> >>>>> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives. Maybe there's >>>>>> >>>>> something >>>> >>>>> there I'm just too dense to see? Criticisms aside, I'm open to >>>>>> >>>>> being >>>> >>>>> educated. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> Joe >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up >>>>>> >>>>> their sleeves, >>>> >>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >>>>>> >>>>> Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> >>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae >>>> z%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>> >>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 02:35:45 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:35:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasoning behind survey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But if the reasoning behind such a survey is to find those lacking sex ed, why make it specific to blind people? Just saying. And, the email is very vague. All it ask for is blind people to answer questions about sex. We have no clue what the intention is. I would prefer more specifics and would like some questions answered first. And like Joe has said, regardless, what is the benefit? We shouldn't have to prove anything to the public especially such sensitive matters as this. Sorry, I truly intended to stop, but others didn't and, well... *smile* Bridgit Message: 4 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:44:32 -0600 From: Liz Bottner To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Beth and all, That's just it, the fact that you didn't receive adequate sex education in school. The survey is by no means trying to insult blind people, its purpose is purely informational. Better yet, if you have questions, that's what the contact information in the original post is for, to contact the person and ask questions about it rather than jumping to conclusions. JMHO, Liz From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 02:45:13 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:45:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Bringing it back to more relevant matters, looking for info on computer programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, Can anyone suggest material-- online or print-- that would help to learn computer Braille? Also, if anyone is a computer programming major, or works in this field, can you let me know what some of the changes have been in the last ten years, and maybe provide me with some helpful tools and tips for computer programmers who are blind. Thanks. Bridgit From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 03:06:36 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:06:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Bringing it back to more relevant matters, looking for info on computer programming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridgit, I believe the National Braille Press has several references for learning computer braille. Patrick On 2/3/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Hey, > > Can anyone suggest material-- online or print-- that would help to learn > computer Braille? > > Also, if anyone is a computer programming major, or works in this field, > can you let me know what some of the changes have been in the last ten > years, and maybe provide me with some helpful tools and tips for > computer programmers who are blind. > > Thanks. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Fri Feb 4 03:13:45 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 19:13:45 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Bringing it back to more relevant matters, looking for info on computer programming References: Message-ID: <3054220F61E344FCA3144120D03C7946@stanford.edu> What exactly are you looking for as far as CS goes? I am a CS major. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 6:45 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Bringing it back to more relevant matters,looking for info on computer programming > Hey, > > Can anyone suggest material-- online or print-- that would help to learn > computer Braille? > > Also, if anyone is a computer programming major, or works in this field, > can you let me know what some of the changes have been in the last ten > years, and maybe provide me with some helpful tools and tips for > computer programmers who are blind. > > Thanks. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 03:44:26 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:44:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3dKv1g00v2PutTY05dKyMV@netzero.net> Message-ID: <7F137042AF024F91AA1DE58D61CF11D7@Rufus> I've since learned the professor is blind and a member of the NFB. He was elegant in his private response to me, and we're going to chat tomorrow. How I allowed myself to get swept up in this is beyond me, but now I'm curious dammit. LOL Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Fri Feb 4 03:59:11 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 19:59:11 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The prof is blind? And we're wasting our energy and our brains and our fingers just by posting comments about sighted people thinking things about blind people? Wow! what a surprise! If this professor is a blind person, that means, we might be able to support his efforts with more trust. Also, if he is blind, we won't stop him from announcing his surveys on this matter. Perhaps if his researchers are also blind, we will even have better support as well. And, a better thing yet, he might have clearly and precisely stated in his survey message that he was blind so that we don't take action in critiquing sighted people. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:44:26 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >I've since learned the professor is blind and a member of the NFB. He was >elegant in his private response to me, and we're going to chat tomorrow. >How I allowed myself to get swept up in this is beyond me, but now I'm >curious dammit. LOL >Joe >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 04:12:36 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:12:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> References: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> Message-ID: Wait, so even if his opinion is the same as it was yesterday, the fact that he's blind now makes him trustworthy enough to *not* receive such harsh criticism? That looks like a terrible bias to me, and in my book, no different than a sighted person discounting your opinions when they suspect you're blind, only to change their minds after realizing you and your affiliates might have some vision. The fact that he is blind shouldn't have any weight here. A blind person can have misleading conceptions about the blind community as easily as a sighted person can, even if they are due-paying members of the NFB. Don't trust or distrust him based on that. Bias against sighted people is just as bad as bias against blind people, and both will feed into one another. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:59 PM, humberto wrote: > Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The prof is blind? And we're wasting our > energy and our brains and our fingers just by posting comments about sighted > people thinking things about blind people? Wow! what a surprise! > If this professor is a blind person, that means, we might be able to > support his efforts with more trust. Also, if he is blind, we won't stop him > from announcing his surveys on this matter. Perhaps if his researchers are > also blind, we will even have better support as well. And, a better thing > yet, he might have clearly and precisely stated in his survey message that > he was blind so that we don't take action in critiquing sighted > people. > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > >> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:44:26 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter >> > > I've since learned the professor is blind and a member of the >> > NFB. He was > >> elegant in his private response to me, and we're going to chat >> > tomorrow. > >> How I allowed myself to get swept up in this is beyond me, but >> > now I'm > >> curious dammit. LOL >> > > Joe >> > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> > sleeves, > >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >> > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> > for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> > 5369%40netzero.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 04:30:42 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:30:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> References: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> Message-ID: <466EBC305D5545F297C431E7750BD3A3@Rufus> Humberto, The fact he's blind means very little. I am just as skeptical, and he knows this. I'll speak to him tomorrow and bring back a report. He did say he'd received a lot of rude messages, to which I hope none of my fellow NFB members are responsible. In my opinion, we're free to oppose the research, but we should and ought to do it with some organized points as opposed to inappropriate phone calls. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 04:36:41 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:36:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: <466EBC305D5545F297C431E7750BD3A3@Rufus> References: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> <466EBC305D5545F297C431E7750BD3A3@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe, While I do not share in your skepticism, I am glad you are not swayed in your stance merely by the fact that the researcher is blind and affiliated with the NFB. I respect that. I also can't believe anyone would have actually sent this person rude messages, especially considering how many of us are students in scientific fields ourselves. I surely hope it was no worse than some of the comments about the researchers that have been tossed around on this list. Anyway, thanks for looking at this rationally, even if we disagree. On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Humberto, > > The fact he's blind means very little. I am just as skeptical, and he > knows > this. I'll speak to him tomorrow and bring back a report. He did say he'd > received a lot of rude messages, to which I hope none of my fellow NFB > members are responsible. In my opinion, we're free to oppose the research, > but we should and ought to do it with some organized points as opposed to > inappropriate phone calls. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 05:12:11 2011 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 00:12:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> <466EBC305D5545F297C431E7750BD3A3@Rufus> Message-ID: Hello All, At the risk of repeating some of what Arielle said, I tend to agree with her whole-heartedly. When preparing research, we as researchers need to take into consideration what benefits our research will have on the targetted population. For example, in 1984, Rosenblum decided to survey mothers of relinquished children. She wanted to know their experiences and how that had affected their later life. However, she was ethically bound to make her study worth while. In other words, what is the reasoning behind having mothers talk about stories that might be painful, of things that might have happened when they were very young. Rosenblum was highly pursuasive, in accurately predicting that their stories and their experiences, might reveal patterns in their later lives. Still, to some this seemed like a morbid study, but most of the women she sent the survey too did answer, mainly because she made this beautiful insentive which in a way commomerated the sacrifice they had made. I could go on and on about studies that observe and survey targetted populations. We do studies on prisoners and minorities. If we are not careful in our recruiting however, the research question can seem cruel and highly offensive, which I think is the case here. My suggestion to everyone is to not get so up in arms because someone is trying to research a question about blind individuals that is so obvious to us. Many questions in the social sciences seem almost intuitive. But we need the scientific data. The researchers are ethically bound to answer the question of how this is going to affect the targetted population, in this case blind young adults. I think that if you want to help our community and the scientific community, and if you want to change perceptions about blindness, you should very politely contact the researcher and ask relevant questions. Ask him, how how he came to do this study? What benefits his findings might have for the blind ccommunity. And even to refer you to some of the literature, if any, that exists which helps back up his hypothesis. At the same time, i have to warn you that if you are within the age range, he might share this only after you take the survey because you will be biased by the previous literature etc. Which might not be the best ideal for data collection. In addition, in psychological research we are permitted to use deception so that our participants are not biased by knowing the real hypothesis. So this might all be a rousse to cover up the real hyhpothesis. Please, please, if you decide to take the survey, do not be so biased. Because that will only do more harm than good. If you truly feel you cannot do this with an open mind, don't go and try to mess up the man's research, let someone else do it. Sincerely, On 2/3/11, Jamie Principato wrote: > Joe, > > While I do not share in your skepticism, I am glad you are not swayed in > your stance merely by the fact that the researcher is blind and affiliated > with the NFB. I respect that. I also can't believe anyone would have > actually sent this person rude messages, especially considering how many of > us are students in scientific fields ourselves. I surely hope it was no > worse than some of the comments about the researchers that have been tossed > around on this list. > > Anyway, thanks for looking at this rationally, even if we disagree. > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Humberto, >> >> The fact he's blind means very little. I am just as skeptical, and he >> knows >> this. I'll speak to him tomorrow and bring back a report. He did say >> he'd >> received a lot of rude messages, to which I hope none of my fellow NFB >> members are responsible. In my opinion, we're free to oppose the >> research, >> but we should and ought to do it with some organized points as opposed to >> inappropriate phone calls. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 06:16:52 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:16:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> <466EBC305D5545F297C431E7750BD3A3@Rufus> Message-ID: Well spoken, Arielle and Joe. Beth On 2/3/11, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hello All, > At the risk of repeating some of what Arielle said, I tend to agree > with her whole-heartedly. When preparing research, we as researchers > need to take into consideration what benefits our research will have > on the targetted population. For example, in 1984, Rosenblum decided > to survey mothers of relinquished children. She wanted to know their > experiences and how that had affected their later life. However, she > was ethically bound to make her study worth while. In other words, > what is the reasoning behind having mothers talk about stories that > might be painful, of things that might have happened when they were > very young. Rosenblum was highly pursuasive, in accurately predicting > that their stories and their experiences, might reveal patterns in > their later lives. Still, to some this seemed like a morbid study, but > most of the women she sent the survey too did answer, mainly because > she made this beautiful insentive which in a way commomerated the > sacrifice they had made. > I could go on and on about studies that observe and survey targetted > populations. We do studies on prisoners and minorities. If we are not > careful in our recruiting however, the research question can seem > cruel and highly offensive, which I think is the case here. My > suggestion to everyone is to not get so up in arms because someone is > trying to research a question about blind individuals that is so > obvious to us. Many questions in the social sciences seem almost > intuitive. But we need the scientific data. The researchers are > ethically bound to answer the question of how this is going to affect > the targetted population, in this case blind young adults. I think > that if you want to help our community and the scientific community, > and if you want to change perceptions about blindness, you should very > politely contact the researcher and ask relevant questions. Ask him, > how how he came to do this study? What benefits his findings might > have for the blind ccommunity. And even to refer you to some of the > literature, if any, that exists which helps back up his hypothesis. > At the same time, i have to warn you that if you are within the age > range, he might share this only after you take the survey because you > will be biased by the previous literature etc. Which might not be the > best ideal for data collection. In addition, in psychological research > we are permitted to use deception so that our participants are not > biased by knowing the real hypothesis. So this might all be a rousse > to cover up the real hyhpothesis. Please, please, if you decide to > take the survey, do not be so biased. Because that will only do more > harm than good. If you truly feel you cannot do this with an open > mind, don't go and try to mess up the man's research, let someone else > do it. > Sincerely, > > On 2/3/11, Jamie Principato wrote: >> Joe, >> >> While I do not share in your skepticism, I am glad you are not swayed in >> your stance merely by the fact that the researcher is blind and affiliated >> with the NFB. I respect that. I also can't believe anyone would have >> actually sent this person rude messages, especially considering how many >> of >> us are students in scientific fields ourselves. I surely hope it was no >> worse than some of the comments about the researchers that have been >> tossed >> around on this list. >> >> Anyway, thanks for looking at this rationally, even if we disagree. >> >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Humberto, >>> >>> The fact he's blind means very little. I am just as skeptical, and he >>> knows >>> this. I'll speak to him tomorrow and bring back a report. He did say >>> he'd >>> received a lot of rude messages, to which I hope none of my fellow NFB >>> members are responsible. In my opinion, we're free to oppose the >>> research, >>> but we should and ought to do it with some organized points as opposed to >>> inappropriate phone calls. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the > most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of > teachers." > Charles W. Eliot > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 07:42:15 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:42:15 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter In-Reply-To: References: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx@netzero.net> <466EBC305D5545F297C431E7750BD3A3@Rufus> Message-ID: Hi List, There is a Moral to this story... it isn't scientific, but it's logical. beyond all else, we should take great care not to assume anything. Just because a person is blind doesn't mean that they understand with other blind people believe to be true, or that a sighted person could never believe with some do. We have sighted allies and blind enimies (though I hesitate to use the word enimey, as it has been used in a very strong andb neggitive way over time). It may be wise to read, then react, and even before you react take a moment further to analyze. Truth is, we are making alot of comotion over some information that we no little about. For the Science buffs (Mary, Jamie, Arielle, and others) science is a way for us to understand the vastness about us, around us and that is us. When we think of it this way, we have to give ourselves over to the fact that we don't know everything that there is to know, and often, we find we didn't know half of what we thought we knew. Now, I'm sure one of the people I mentioned by name, or one of the many people on this list will correct me, proving that we only know so much, and I'm fine with that. Point is, there's no use getting to worked up over something when we don't know the facts. We can take part in the study if we can, decide not to if we can, or ask more questions, as scientests do. and with that rant, I shall take my leave. have a good one folks! On 2/3/11, Beth wrote: > Well spoken, Arielle and Joe. > Beth > > On 2/3/11, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> Hello All, >> At the risk of repeating some of what Arielle said, I tend to agree >> with her whole-heartedly. When preparing research, we as researchers >> need to take into consideration what benefits our research will have >> on the targetted population. For example, in 1984, Rosenblum decided >> to survey mothers of relinquished children. She wanted to know their >> experiences and how that had affected their later life. However, she >> was ethically bound to make her study worth while. In other words, >> what is the reasoning behind having mothers talk about stories that >> might be painful, of things that might have happened when they were >> very young. Rosenblum was highly pursuasive, in accurately predicting >> that their stories and their experiences, might reveal patterns in >> their later lives. Still, to some this seemed like a morbid study, but >> most of the women she sent the survey too did answer, mainly because >> she made this beautiful insentive which in a way commomerated the >> sacrifice they had made. >> I could go on and on about studies that observe and survey targetted >> populations. We do studies on prisoners and minorities. If we are not >> careful in our recruiting however, the research question can seem >> cruel and highly offensive, which I think is the case here. My >> suggestion to everyone is to not get so up in arms because someone is >> trying to research a question about blind individuals that is so >> obvious to us. Many questions in the social sciences seem almost >> intuitive. But we need the scientific data. The researchers are >> ethically bound to answer the question of how this is going to affect >> the targetted population, in this case blind young adults. I think >> that if you want to help our community and the scientific community, >> and if you want to change perceptions about blindness, you should very >> politely contact the researcher and ask relevant questions. Ask him, >> how how he came to do this study? What benefits his findings might >> have for the blind ccommunity. And even to refer you to some of the >> literature, if any, that exists which helps back up his hypothesis. >> At the same time, i have to warn you that if you are within the age >> range, he might share this only after you take the survey because you >> will be biased by the previous literature etc. Which might not be the >> best ideal for data collection. In addition, in psychological research >> we are permitted to use deception so that our participants are not >> biased by knowing the real hypothesis. So this might all be a rousse >> to cover up the real hyhpothesis. Please, please, if you decide to >> take the survey, do not be so biased. Because that will only do more >> harm than good. If you truly feel you cannot do this with an open >> mind, don't go and try to mess up the man's research, let someone else >> do it. >> Sincerely, >> >> On 2/3/11, Jamie Principato wrote: >>> Joe, >>> >>> While I do not share in your skepticism, I am glad you are not swayed in >>> your stance merely by the fact that the researcher is blind and >>> affiliated >>> with the NFB. I respect that. I also can't believe anyone would have >>> actually sent this person rude messages, especially considering how many >>> of >>> us are students in scientific fields ourselves. I surely hope it was no >>> worse than some of the comments about the researchers that have been >>> tossed >>> around on this list. >>> >>> Anyway, thanks for looking at this rationally, even if we disagree. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> Humberto, >>>> >>>> The fact he's blind means very little. I am just as skeptical, and he >>>> knows >>>> this. I'll speak to him tomorrow and bring back a report. He did say >>>> he'd >>>> received a lot of rude messages, to which I hope none of my fellow NFB >>>> members are responsible. In my opinion, we're free to oppose the >>>> research, >>>> but we should and ought to do it with some organized points as opposed >>>> to >>>> inappropriate phone calls. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the >> most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of >> teachers." >> Charles W. Eliot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From th404 at comcast.net Fri Feb 4 07:47:49 2011 From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:47:49 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Wanted: External Stereo Mike for Voice Recorder Message-ID: Some years ago, Radio Shack had a very nice stereo mike that I often used with my digital voice recorder. It was small enough that you could transport it, yet you could place it on a table without needing a mike stand, and you got excellent recordings. That mike gave out in early 2008, and I've not been able to find anything like it. I think it was a lapel mike, but it could also be placed on a table and spread out. I do have a Sony professional grade mike and a stand, but that's too much to carry. I also don't want to use binaural mikes, since I like to monitor recordings. Does anyone out there know where I might find a good stereo external mike for a digital voice recorder? What's a good brand, and where might I get it? Thanks. From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 13:30:17 2011 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:30:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Wanted: External Stereo Mike for Voice Recorder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Two places I like for electronics are You Do It Electronics and Cambridge Sound Works. http://www.youdoitelectronics.com/ http://store.cambridgesoundworks.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Hansen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:47 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Wanted: External Stereo Mike for Voice Recorder > Some years ago, Radio Shack had a very nice stereo mike that I often used > with my digital voice recorder. It was small enough that you could > transport it, yet you could place it on a table without needing a mike > stand, and you got excellent recordings. That mike gave out in early 2008, > and I've not been able to find anything like it. I think it was a lapel > mike, but it could also be placed on a table and spread out. > > I do have a Sony professional grade mike and a stand, but that's too much > to carry. I also don't want to use binaural mikes, since I like to monitor > recordings. > > Does anyone out there know where I might find a good stereo external mike > for a digital voice recorder? What's a good brand, and where might I get > it? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From dkirby at mchsi.com Fri Feb 4 14:16:47 2011 From: dkirby at mchsi.com (darrel kirby) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 08:16:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Reasoning behind survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55542546F377431CA3B39B647C8B6C4A@DHCN2WC1> Hello List, I would like to put in my two cents. Firstly, if one is doing research, it is appropriate to limit the information the participant has about the study so that provided information does not bias the data. The researcher is trying his or her best to not harm the participant through questioning, but maintain validity. Secondly, much of research is used to actually demonstrate that some things are not what we might think. It just might be the case that this researcher is working from the hypothesis that blind youth know just as much about sex as sighted youth. Either way, it does not hurt having more empirical evidence to support either hypothesis. Thirdly, I, from a personal curiosity, am curious if blind youth have differing opinions of sex. I have met blind people who I have felt were shelterd or "protected" by parents, teachers, and peers. I want to know if the sheltering has had an impact on the knowledge blind youth have received about sex education. I think many of us have experienced, first hand, the misconception that blind people are non-sexual beings. I think we all know that this is not true. This misconception, however, might cause parents or our educational system, or even young sighted peers from filling the blind youth in on the truth of sex. Let's give the research a chance. Just my opinion - like belly-buttons, we've all got one, Darrel Kirby -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:36 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Reasoning behind survey But if the reasoning behind such a survey is to find those lacking sex ed, why make it specific to blind people? Just saying. And, the email is very vague. All it ask for is blind people to answer questions about sex. We have no clue what the intention is. I would prefer more specifics and would like some questions answered first. And like Joe has said, regardless, what is the benefit? We shouldn't have to prove anything to the public especially such sensitive matters as this. Sorry, I truly intended to stop, but others didn't and, well... *smile* Bridgit Message: 4 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 14:44:32 -0600 From: Liz Bottner To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sex knowledge survey Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Beth and all, That's just it, the fact that you didn't receive adequate sex education in school. The survey is by no means trying to insult blind people, its purpose is purely informational. Better yet, if you have questions, that's what the contact information in the original post is for, to contact the person and ask questions about it rather than jumping to conclusions. JMHO, Liz _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dkirby%40mchsi.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3384 - Release Date: 02/03/11 01:34:00 From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 18:01:32 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:01:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Retraction Message-ID: <05213664226B4E0C8BF83C733CBE57F3@Rufus> Dear list, I spoke with the professor regarding his sex study of which there's been so much discussion. By way of a summary, there is research suggesting that blind people are at least two years behind in their sexual development. However, there is no research to fully explain why this is the case. Last year he attempted to survey students ages 14-18. Only 3 out of 70 parents gave consent for their children to participate, and naturally, this is an insufficient sample. If the research above is true, his next best option is to interview young adults between 18 and 20, since theoretically their sexual development would be at that of a 16 to 18-year-old. He wanted to stay as close to the original age range as possible. The reason for the survey is to promote equal sex education among blind students. There are schools with no sex education. There are schools where the sex education is fully developed, but even these campuses are not fully prepared to go beyond visual exhibits for their blind students. Blind people are therefore left without a real sense of sex, and even more importantly, sexual safety. Take it a step further, and research suggests blind people are not fully aware of more serious conditions like signs of cancer, a problem that could have been covered in a well-prepared sex education curriculum using replicas and other tools. Ultimately, the current study does not seek to teach blind people how to do what would be self-explanatory. Rather, it seeks to create an instrument that teachers can use to educate blind people in a way sighted people are educated from photos, diagrams and movies. Having written all that, I retract my previous post. I said to the professor that his e-mail could have provided a little more information without tainting the nature of his research. He feels the reaction would have been more positive if he had included the fact that he is also blind. I disagreed with him, pointing out that I took the e-mail at face value. My reaction would have been the same with the information I was provided, regardless of visual acuity. I wish the professor the best in his studies and hope its outcome serves of some value to younger students. No, I do not think equal sex education will make or break a blind person's total sexual development, but I am looking at this from the standpoint of equal access to the classroom. If sighted people can process this information visually, there should be methods to impress the same information among blind students. And, I do not retract my overriding point that as blind people we should not feel compelled to defend ourselves on all fronts. My reference to the study was one example, but I think it also applies to mischaracterizations we might see on television or come across in general media. If we make a habit of defending ourselves against every misguided notion, we will spend more time educating and less time living, and living is sometimes the best method of setting an example. At any rate, it was great to be proven wrong on the study. Anyone who can respond to my loaded points with the poise the professor did deserves my respect and public retraction. It is my understanding that he offered to speak to other people via phone to explain himself, and the only response he received were rude messages and hang-ups. I hope the additional information will help us all see things from the perspective it was meant to be perceived. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 4 18:23:15 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:23:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Message-ID: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Hi all, I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I’m at one of the larger ones Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. What does your school do? This is some continuing education for me. In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by chapter. Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a downloadable link from the dss counselor. You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get it downloaded from the internet and it’s a zipped file. I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download an “expander” something that will unzip the file. You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free trial for thirty days. This is a mess and I don’t see why the dss counselor can’t get a CD or better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I’m trying to get another download link from the dss counselor. Ashley From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 18:30:46 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 12:30:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] On things that matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But what is the benefit? Why do we need to prove everything-- including our abilities in the bedroom. I agree with Joe; it is an irrevelant study that does not enhance our lives, nor does it help society. Respectively, Bridgit Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 21:00:45 -0500 From: Jamie Principato To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If there is in fact a significant difference between sighted and blind young adults in terms of acquisition of accurate sex-related knowledge, would it not benefit the community for this to be known, and for it to be addressed? That which can be destroyed by the truth should be, whether it's a misconception made by sighted people or a generalization made by a few well educated blind people. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 4 18:45:20 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:45:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] On things that matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Wow, I am surprised the amount of responses to the study. It’s a study and it did not offend me. The professor wants to see if there is a difference in the knowledge and acquisition of the knowledge of sex. I think there would be. People learn by the media and diagrams in school. When I took health some of the info was inaccessible to me. They had pictures of male/female atonomy. Joe Orozco said the professor said there is research suggesting blind young adults are two years behind their sighted peers in this knowledge. So his hypothesis is based on prior research. If this is the case, 18 year olds would have the knowledge of 16 year olds. I'd participate, but I do not meet the age requirement. Amazing how we get up in arms about someone's survey; if you don't like it, don't participate. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:30 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] On things that matter But what is the benefit? Why do we need to prove everything-- including our abilities in the bedroom. I agree with Joe; it is an irrevelant study that does not enhance our lives, nor does it help society. Respectively, Bridgit Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 21:00:45 -0500 From: Jamie Principato To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If there is in fact a significant difference between sighted and blind young adults in terms of acquisition of accurate sex-related knowledge, would it not benefit the community for this to be known, and for it to be addressed? That which can be destroyed by the truth should be, whether it's a misconception made by sighted people or a generalization made by a few well educated blind people. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 19:02:15 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:02:15 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, the process at your former campus is the process that I am more familiar with. Another option might be checking the RFB and D website. Also, bookshare is a great resource. I do appoligise if I have suggested rutes that you have already taken. hope this wasHelpful, Darian On 2/4/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, which > is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I’m at > one of the larger ones > Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic books > through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. > What does your school do? > This is some continuing education for me. > In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the > receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by > chapter. > Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a > downloadable link from the dss counselor. > You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get > it downloaded from the internet and it’s a zipped file. > > I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download > an “expander” something that will unzip the file. > You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period > of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will > not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free > trial for thirty days. > > This is a mess and I don’t see why the dss counselor can’t get a CD or > better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! > I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I’m trying to get another > download link from the dss counselor. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 19:04:38 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:04:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Of things that matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joe, But now you know! *smile* I too am not sure why I keep commenting on this-- I just want it to end and yet, I started it! LOL All I wanted was some answers, and it looks like you are getting them. Questioning never hurt anyone. May this discussion rest in peace! *smirk* Bridgit Message: 11 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 22:44:26 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: <7F137042AF024F91AA1DE58D61CF11D7 at Rufus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I've since learned the professor is blind and a member of the NFB. He was elegant in his private response to me, and we're going to chat tomorrow. How I allowed myself to get swept up in this is beyond me, but now I'm curious dammit. LOL Joe From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 19:41:12 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:41:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Of things that matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't think any of us were criticizing sight or those with sight, but I think we were concerned with the vagueness of the email. I don't think the prof needs to disclose his own blindness, but I do think they should have been more specific with the details of the survey. I, personally, was never outright against the survey, nor did I mean to imply it was harmful. I simply wanted to be cautious and encourage anyone who decided to take the survey to ask questions before jumping into something they knew little about. Yes, the world still views blindness as a horrible, life-haltering, cataclysmic way to live, but there are others who do not buy into stereotypes and negative perceptions. And there are those who have open minds and are willing to learn. We can be the victims of our own perceptions if we practice reverse prejudice. Just as we hope people don't judge us based solely on our blindness, in return, we should nnot judge others before we know their intentions. Surveys like this have an agenda-- for good or bad-- and we should be aware of those agendas because, in the bad cases especially, they will not care what our answers are, or what we have to say-- they are following an agenda and their findings will fit this agenda. Now that some questions have been answered, this particular survey seems more legit , though I am still curious what the reasoning is-- what is it about blind people, 18 to 20, and their particular knowledge of sex, that is so important? I have only been blind for 8 years, am I missing something? Can anyone enlighten me? I am just curious. Anyway, here's to moving forward and knocking those barriers down one step at a time. I am unbelieveably proud of all of you, who are students and moving into fields that people do not always think are possible for the blind and visually impaired. I'm truly blessed to call you my Federation family. It has been an amazing thing for me to have a group of people who "gets it." Bridgit Message: 12 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 19:59:11 -0800 From: humberto To: jsorozco at gmail.com, National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx at netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The prof is blind? And we're wasting our energy and our brains and our fingers just by posting comments about sighted people thinking things about blind people? Wow! what a surprise! If this professor is a blind person, that means, we might be able to support his efforts with more trust. Also, if he is blind, we won't stop him from announcing his surveys on this matter. Perhaps if his researchers are also blind, we will even have better support as well. And, a better thing yet, he might have clearly and precisely stated in his survey message that he was blind so that we don't take action in critiquing sighted people. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 19:49:11 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:49:11 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Of things that matter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: *smile* HappyFriday! lol Darian On 2/4/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I don't think any of us were criticizing sight or those with sight, but > I think we were concerned with the vagueness of the email. > > I don't think the prof needs to disclose his own blindness, but I do > think they should have been more specific with the details of the > survey. > > I, personally, was never outright against the survey, nor did I mean to > imply it was harmful. I simply wanted to be cautious and encourage > anyone who decided to take the survey to ask questions before jumping > into something they knew little about. > > Yes, the world still views blindness as a horrible, life-haltering, > cataclysmic way to live, but there are others who do not buy into > stereotypes and negative perceptions. And there are those who have open > minds and are willing to learn. We can be the victims of our own > perceptions if we practice reverse prejudice. > > Just as we hope people don't judge us based solely on our blindness, in > return, we should nnot judge others before we know their intentions. > > Surveys like this have an agenda-- for good or bad-- and we should be > aware of those agendas because, in the bad cases especially, they will > not care what our answers are, or what we have to say-- they are > following an agenda and their findings will fit this agenda. > > Now that some questions have been answered, this particular survey seems > more legit , though I am still curious what the reasoning is-- what is > it about blind people, 18 to 20, and their particular knowledge of sex, > that is so important? I have only been blind for 8 years, am I missing > something? Can anyone enlighten me? I am just curious. > > Anyway, here's to moving forward and knocking those barriers down one > step at a time. I am unbelieveably proud of all of you, who are > students and moving into fields that people do not always think are > possible for the blind and visually impaired. I'm truly blessed to call > you my Federation family. It has been an amazing thing for me to have a > group of people who "gets it." > > Bridgit > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 19:59:11 -0800 > From: humberto > To: jsorozco at gmail.com, National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter > Message-ID: <3fz11g00W2PutTY05fz4Lx at netzero.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed > > Oh my goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The prof is blind? And we're > wasting our energy and our brains and our fingers just by posting > comments about sighted people thinking things about blind people? > Wow! what a surprise! > If this professor is a blind person, that means, we might be able > to support his efforts with more trust. Also, if he is blind, we > won't stop him from announcing his surveys on this matter. > Perhaps if his researchers are also blind, we will even have > better support as well. And, a better thing yet, he might have > clearly and precisely stated in his survey message that he was > blind so that we don't take action in critiquing sighted people. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 20:06:08 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Hi all, I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I'm at one of the larger ones Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. What does your school do? This is some continuing education for me. In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by chapter. Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a downloadable link from the dss counselor. You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get it downloaded from the internet and it's a zipped file. I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download an "expander" something that will unzip the file. You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free trial for thirty days. This is a mess and I don't see why the dss counselor can't get a CD or better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I'm trying to get another download link from the dss counselor. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5846 (20110204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5847 (20110204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 20:06:36 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:06:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that matter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jamie, You bring up a very valid point. Just as we should not criticize sighted people or question their motives, we should not assume a blind person has good intentions, or our best interest in mind. In everything-- school, work, activities, etc.-- we need to have an open mind, but always ask questions and view each situation with equality. Bridgit Message: 13 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 23:12:36 -0500 From: Jamie Principato To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Wait, so even if his opinion is the same as it was yesterday, the fact that he's blind now makes him trustworthy enough to *not* receive such harsh criticism? That looks like a terrible bias to me, and in my book, no different than a sighted person discounting your opinions when they suspect you're blind, only to change their minds after realizing you and your affiliates might have some vision. The fact that he is blind shouldn't have any weight here. A blind person can have misleading conceptions about the blind community as easily as a sighted person can, even if they are due-paying members of the NFB. Don't trust or distrust him based on that. Bias against sighted people is just as bad as bias against blind people, and both will feed into one another. From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 20:20:54 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:20:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nicole, I am asking on behalf of someone else. They were a computer programming minor, briefly, back in 2000 (I know, hundreds of years ago!) and they are considering getting a second degree in CPS. We are just trying to educate ourselves on some of the changes-- what may be different that would be taught in the classes. Also, at the time, they had significant vision and did not use alternative technniques. They now use alternative skills, but are wondering what, beyond the normal tools, Braille, screen readers, etc.-- tools and/or methods may help in their studies and practical application. They are going to learn computer Braille, but we are curious as to if anyone suggest other tools. Thanks for any advice. Bridgit P Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 19:13:45 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Bringing it back to more relevant matters, looking for info on computer programming Message-ID: <3054220F61E344FCA3144120D03C7946 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original What exactly are you looking for as far as CS goes? I am a CS major. Nicole From rob_blach at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 20:26:09 2011 From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:26:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: ? have you asked them to put it on a cd for you and told them your problem? -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:06 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Hi all, I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I'm at one of the larger ones Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. What does your school do? This is some continuing education for me. In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by chapter. Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a downloadable link from the dss counselor. You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get it downloaded from the internet and it's a zipped file. I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download an "expander" something that will unzip the file. You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free trial for thirty days. This is a mess and I don't see why the dss counselor can't get a CD or better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I'm trying to get another download link from the dss counselor. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5846 (20110204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5847 (20110204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 4 20:29:02 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:29:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Slate & Style seeking book reviews In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Slate & Style, the Writers Division publication, is looking to revive the magazine and publish better quality material. I want to publish a few book reviews each issue since writers learn from reading just as much as writing. As students, I know you read a lot-- some required, some for leisure. I am looking for personal reviews that briefly summarize a book and discuss some key/important elements of the book. Essentially an opinion piece. If anyone is interested, the reviews are to be 1500 words or less. The books reviewed can be fiction, poetry, creative nonfiction or other nonfiction books you find interesting. If you have questions or comments, contact me at bpollpeter at hotmail.com. I am also eager to hear from any students who are studying creative writing or journalism, or those who enjoy writing. I can always use pieces, or assistance, from those who have some kind of writing background-- even if it is a hobby. Sincerely, Bridgit Kuenning Pollpeter Editor, Slate & Style Secretary, NFB Writers Division From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 4 20:57:47 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:57:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Darian, I suppose I can search bookshare for it; not a member yet because bookshare had more literary stuff not textbooks; but I hear that changed in recent years. I did check rfb. I was very surprised about this complicated proccess. I think they should order the book on CD and give it to me. That is much simplier than trying to download and unzip a file. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Ashley, the process at your former campus is the process that I am more familiar with. Another option might be checking the RFB and D website. Also, bookshare is a great resource. I do appoligise if I have suggested rutes that you have already taken. hope this wasHelpful, Darian On 2/4/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, > which > is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I’m at > one of the larger ones > Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic > books > through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. > What does your school do? > This is some continuing education for me. > In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the > receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by > chapter. > Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a > downloadable link from the dss counselor. > You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get > it downloaded from the internet and it’s a zipped file. > > I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download > an “expander” something that will unzip the file. > You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period > of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will > not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free > trial for thirty days. > > This is a mess and I don’t see why the dss counselor can’t get a CD or > better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! > I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I’m trying to get another > download link from the dss counselor. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 4 21:00:05 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:00:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, Yep they know the problem and I requested another link be sent because my first download attempt was not successful. I don't think my dss counselor can do it for me becaus e you have to download the expander first onto your computer to unzip the file. She cannot download/install without admin rights. I'll try to download the file again if she can send me a new link. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Rob Blachowicz Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts ? have you asked them to put it on a cd for you and told them your problem? -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:06 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Hi all, I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I'm at one of the larger ones Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. What does your school do? This is some continuing education for me. In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by chapter. Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a downloadable link from the dss counselor. You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get it downloaded from the internet and it's a zipped file. I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download an "expander" something that will unzip the file. You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free trial for thirty days. This is a mess and I don't see why the dss counselor can't get a CD or better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I'm trying to get another download link from the dss counselor. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5846 (20110204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5847 (20110204) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 21:05:46 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:05:46 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: you can also just contact the publisher directly, let them know you've baught the book and would like a copy. In basic, all the person in your DSO is doing is contacting them and seeing if they have it. If they don't have it on CD, maybe they can send it as a file. Thoughts? On 2/4/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Darian, > I suppose I can search bookshare for it; not a member yet because bookshare > had more literary stuff not textbooks; but I hear that changed in recent > years. > I did check rfb. I was very surprised about this complicated proccess. I > think they should order the book on CD and give it to me. That is much > simplier than trying to download and unzip a file. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darian Smith > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 2:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > Ashley, the process at your former campus is the process that I am > more familiar with. Another option might be checking the RFB and D > website. Also, bookshare is a great resource. I do appoligise if I > have suggested rutes that you have already taken. > hope this wasHelpful, > Darian > > On 2/4/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, >> which >> is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I’m at >> one of the larger ones >> Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic >> books >> through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. >> What does your school do? >> This is some continuing education for me. >> In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the >> receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by >> chapter. >> Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a >> downloadable link from the dss counselor. >> You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get >> it downloaded from the internet and it’s a zipped file. >> >> I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download >> an “expander” something that will unzip the file. >> You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period >> of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will >> not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free >> trial for thirty days. >> >> This is a mess and I don’t see why the dss counselor can’t get a CD or >> better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! >> I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I’m trying to get another >> download link from the dss counselor. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From danedunham26 at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 22:11:58 2011 From: danedunham26 at gmail.com (Dane Dunham) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:11:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <01ed01cbc4b8$8cadfb70$0301a8c0@usd232.org> Ashley, I deal with zip files often, and know of a free program that can extract them without problems. It is called Universal Extractor, found at http://www.legroom.net/software/uniextract There is a portable version that does not require admin rights, so anyone helping you could unzip the file no matter what. Hope this helps. Dane PS: there is also another free program called 7zip which also unzips files. That program can be found at http://www.7-zip.org/. 7zip also has a portable version at http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/7-zip_portable. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Hi, > Yep they know the problem and I requested another link be sent because my > first download attempt was not successful. > I don't think my dss counselor can do it for me becaus e you have to > download the expander first onto your computer to unzip the file. > She cannot download/install without admin rights. > I'll try to download the file again if she can send me a new link. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Blachowicz > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:26 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > ? > have you asked them to put it on a cd for you and told them your problem? > -----Original Message----- > From: Marsha Drenth > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:06 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request > the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last > semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard > to > handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got > another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it > so > I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > Hi all, > > I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, > which > is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I'm at > one of the larger ones > Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic > books > through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. > What does your school do? > This is some continuing education for me. > In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the > receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by > chapter. > Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a > downloadable link from the dss counselor. > You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get > it downloaded from the internet and it's a zipped file. > > I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download > an "expander" something that will unzip the file. > You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period > of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will > not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free > trial for thirty days. > > This is a mess and I don't see why the dss counselor can't get a CD or > better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! > I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I'm trying to get another > download link from the dss counselor. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5846 (20110204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5847 (20110204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 4 23:31:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 18:31:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <01ed01cbc4b8$8cadfb70$0301a8c0@usd232.org> References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> <01ed01cbc4b8$8cadfb70$0301a8c0@usd232.org> Message-ID: <0189B9350CBC4C9EB64AE10E40145273@OwnerPC> Hi, Thanks. So if I need to unzip another file, this could be an option. The software I got called Stuff it only gives you a month free trial. -----Original Message----- From: Dane Dunham Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 5:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Ashley, I deal with zip files often, and know of a free program that can extract them without problems. It is called Universal Extractor, found at http://www.legroom.net/software/uniextract There is a portable version that does not require admin rights, so anyone helping you could unzip the file no matter what. Hope this helps. Dane PS: there is also another free program called 7zip which also unzips files. That program can be found at http://www.7-zip.org/. 7zip also has a portable version at http://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/7-zip_portable. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Hi, > Yep they know the problem and I requested another link be sent because my > first download attempt was not successful. > I don't think my dss counselor can do it for me becaus e you have to > download the expander first onto your computer to unzip the file. > She cannot download/install without admin rights. > I'll try to download the file again if she can send me a new link. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Blachowicz > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:26 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > ? > have you asked them to put it on a cd for you and told them your problem? > -----Original Message----- > From: Marsha Drenth > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:06 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request > the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last > semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard > to > handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got > another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it > so > I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 1:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > Hi all, > > I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, > which > is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I'm at > one of the larger ones > Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic > books > through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. > What does your school do? > This is some continuing education for me. > In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the > receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by > chapter. > Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a > downloadable link from the dss counselor. > You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get > it downloaded from the internet and it's a zipped file. > > I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download > an "expander" something that will unzip the file. > You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period > of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will > not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free > trial for thirty days. > > This is a mess and I don't see why the dss counselor can't get a CD or > better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! > I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I'm trying to get another > download link from the dss counselor. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5846 (20110204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5847 (20110204) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Feb 5 00:32:49 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 19:32:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Retraction In-Reply-To: <05213664226B4E0C8BF83C733CBE57F3@Rufus> References: <05213664226B4E0C8BF83C733CBE57F3@Rufus> Message-ID: I agree that I would not and still do not have a changed opinion based on the fact that the professor is himself blind. However, I still question the validity of a survey that only surveys an age range of two years, and why isn't he surveying sighted students as wel? I know, it's been done before, but the difference in time, location of the surveyors and/or students, how many sighted students were surveyed, and much more could make a difference. Also, could someone please send me the professors's contact information? I seem to have lost it, and I'd like to spek with him about his survey. My main question is: When is it expected that the approximage two years difference decreases and disappears altogether, and why not survey older people (20-40) to see what their education is like, in comparison, to find out where the gap ends? I am appalled by the ntote that the professor only recieved rude messages and hang-ups. I may not agree with the survey, but I certainly did not send him a rude message or harass him. I fear that whoever did send those messages has lost their sense of self-honour and honour for the blind movement in general. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, though (at least I hope so!) On 2/4/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Dear list, > > I spoke with the professor regarding his sex study of which there's been so > much discussion. By way of a summary, there is research suggesting that > blind people are at least two years behind in their sexual development. > However, there is no research to fully explain why this is the case. > > Last year he attempted to survey students ages 14-18. Only 3 out of 70 > parents gave consent for their children to participate, and naturally, this > is an insufficient sample. If the research above is true, his next best > option is to interview young adults between 18 and 20, since theoretically > their sexual development would be at that of a 16 to 18-year-old. He wanted > to stay as close to the original age range as possible. > > The reason for the survey is to promote equal sex education among blind > students. There are schools with no sex education. There are schools where > the sex education is fully developed, but even these campuses are not fully > prepared to go beyond visual exhibits for their blind students. Blind > people are therefore left without a real sense of sex, and even more > importantly, sexual safety. Take it a step further, and research suggests > blind people are not fully aware of more serious conditions like signs of > cancer, a problem that could have been covered in a well-prepared sex > education curriculum using replicas and other tools. > > Ultimately, the current study does not seek to teach blind people how to do > what would be self-explanatory. Rather, it seeks to create an instrument > that teachers can use to educate blind people in a way sighted people are > educated from photos, diagrams and movies. > > Having written all that, I retract my previous post. I said to the > professor that his e-mail could have provided a little more information > without tainting the nature of his research. He feels the reaction would > have been more positive if he had included the fact that he is also blind. > I disagreed with him, pointing out that I took the e-mail at face value. My > reaction would have been the same with the information I was provided, > regardless of visual acuity. I wish the professor the best in his studies > and hope its outcome serves of some value to younger students. No, I do not > think equal sex education will make or break a blind person's total sexual > development, but I am looking at this from the standpoint of equal access to > the classroom. If sighted people can process this information visually, > there should be methods to impress the same information among blind > students. > > And, I do not retract my overriding point that as blind people we should not > feel compelled to defend ourselves on all fronts. My reference to the study > was one example, but I think it also applies to mischaracterizations we > might see on television or come across in general media. If we make a habit > of defending ourselves against every misguided notion, we will spend more > time educating and less time living, and living is sometimes the best method > of setting an example. > > At any rate, it was great to be proven wrong on the study. Anyone who can > respond to my loaded points with the poise the professor did deserves my > respect and public retraction. It is my understanding that he offered to > speak to other people via phone to explain himself, and the only response he > received were rude messages and hang-ups. I hope the additional information > will help us all see things from the perspective it was meant to be > perceived. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Feb 5 00:52:44 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:52:44 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming References: Message-ID: <07DD0853D5A64184A95FD11B0CC5BE0C@stanford.edu> I was not studying CS yet back in 2000, so I don't know exactly what has changed. I'm guessing, though, that there has been a shift to include new higher level languages, such as Java, as well as continuing to use the lower level languages such as C and C++. Personally, I do all of my programming on the computer using a code editor and JAWS. I find listening to the code easier than reading it, but that is just a personal preference. Often, professors and books like to explain concepts using diagrams, so it can be helpful if you are good at visualizing things. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 12:20 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming > Nicole, > > I am asking on behalf of someone else. They were a computer programming > minor, briefly, back in 2000 (I know, hundreds of years ago!) and they > are considering getting a second degree in CPS. We are just trying to > educate ourselves on some of the changes-- what may be different that > would be taught in the classes. > > Also, at the time, they had significant vision and did not use > alternative technniques. They now use alternative skills, but are > wondering what, beyond the normal tools, Braille, screen readers, etc.-- > tools and/or methods may help in their studies and practical > application. They are going to learn computer Braille, but we are > curious as to if anyone suggest other tools. > > Thanks for any advice. > > Bridgit P > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 19:13:45 -0800 > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Bringing it back to more relevant matters, > looking for info on computer programming > Message-ID: <3054220F61E344FCA3144120D03C7946 at stanford.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > What exactly are you looking for as far as CS goes? I am a CS major. > > Nicole > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Feb 5 00:55:07 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:55:07 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <66EB9525F2934C559C545CFA0A901D76@stanford.edu> What format is the unzipped file? Also, can use any unzipping program? If so, windows has one built in. Otherwise, they should buy the unzipping program for you; sighted students don't have to pay extra to be able to read the book that they bought, so why should you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:23 AM Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Hi all, > > I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, > which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I’m > at one of the larger ones > Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic > books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. > What does your school do? > This is some continuing education for me. > In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the > receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by > chapter. > Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a > downloadable link from the dss counselor. > You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get > it downloaded from the internet and it’s a zipped file. > > I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download > an “expander” something that will unzip the file. > You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period > of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will > not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free > trial for thirty days. > > This is a mess and I don’t see why the dss counselor can’t get a CD or > better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! > I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I’m trying to get another > download link from the dss counselor. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 5 01:04:58 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 20:04:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <66EB9525F2934C559C545CFA0A901D76@stanford.edu> References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> <66EB9525F2934C559C545CFA0A901D76@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Nicole, Thanks. I think I can use any unzipping program. I didn't know windows has one. I have windows 7. What is it called? That may help next time. You are right in that I shouldn't have to pay extra; that is what I told them. I told DSS that this was a free trial for the expander but it would not work the next book I get from them. Ah, maybe the windows one will work. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts What format is the unzipped file? Also, can use any unzipping program? If so, windows has one built in. Otherwise, they should buy the unzipping program for you; sighted students don't have to pay extra to be able to read the book that they bought, so why should you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:23 AM Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Hi all, > > I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, > which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. I’m > at one of the larger ones > Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic > books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. > What does your school do? > This is some continuing education for me. > In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the > receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by > chapter. > Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a > downloadable link from the dss counselor. > You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get > it downloaded from the internet and it’s a zipped file. > > I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download > an “expander” something that will unzip the file. > You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period > of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will > not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free > trial for thirty days. > > This is a mess and I don’t see why the dss counselor can’t get a CD or > better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! > I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I’m trying to get another > download link from the dss counselor. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat Feb 5 01:13:37 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 17:13:37 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> <66EB9525F2934C559C545CFA0A901D76@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Windows does have a zip program. If you go to open a compressed file, that program should automatically engage and the file should open for you. I wsee no reason why this should have changed with the newer version of windows. good luck Darian On 2/4/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Nicole, > Thanks. I think I can use any unzipping program. I didn't know windows has > one. I have windows 7. What is it called? > That may help next time. You are right in that I shouldn't have to pay > extra; that is what I told them. I told DSS that this was a free trial for > the expander but it would not work the next book I get from them. > Ah, maybe the windows one will work. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > What format is the unzipped file? Also, can use any unzipping program? If > so, windows has one built in. Otherwise, they should buy the unzipping > program for you; sighted students don't have to pay extra to be able to read > the book that they bought, so why should you. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:23 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > >> Hi all, >> >> I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, >> which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. >> I’m >> at one of the larger ones >> Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic >> books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. >> What does your school do? >> This is some continuing education for me. >> In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the >> receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by >> >> chapter. >> Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a >> downloadable link from the dss counselor. >> You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get >> >> it downloaded from the internet and it’s a zipped file. >> >> I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download >> >> an “expander” something that will unzip the file. >> You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period >> >> of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will >> not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free >> trial for thirty days. >> >> This is a mess and I don’t see why the dss counselor can’t get a CD or >> better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! >> I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I’m trying to get another >> download link from the dss counselor. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Feb 5 01:18:41 2011 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 19:18:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <7FC865DAC561409EBA3D010461EE9FBF@OwnerPC> <66EB9525F2934C559C545CFA0A901D76@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <008a01cbc4d2$a27c6a30$e7753e90$@com> Darien, Can you please email me off list? I have some questions for you with in regards to getting involved with my local chapter of NABS. My email address is: kobycox at gmail.com Right back soon, Koby. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Windows does have a zip program. If you go to open a compressed file, that program should automatically engage and the file should open for you. I wsee no reason why this should have changed with the newer version of windows. good luck Darian On 2/4/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Nicole, > Thanks. I think I can use any unzipping program. I didn't know windows has > one. I have windows 7. What is it called? > That may help next time. You are right in that I shouldn't have to pay > extra; that is what I told them. I told DSS that this was a free trial for > the expander but it would not work the next book I get from them. > Ah, maybe the windows one will work. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 7:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > What format is the unzipped file? Also, can use any unzipping program? If > so, windows has one built in. Otherwise, they should buy the unzipping > program for you; sighted students don't have to pay extra to be able to read > the book that they bought, so why should you. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 10:23 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > >> Hi all, >> >> I am a part time student at northern virginia community college, nova, >> which is the largest community college in VA. It has several campuses. >> I'm >> at one of the larger ones >> Well, I am rather surprised at the procedure for obtaining electronic >> books through the disability office who gets them via the publisher. >> What does your school do? >> This is some continuing education for me. >> In my undergraduate studies, I would obtain the book, give a copy of the >> receit to DSS, and they would give me a CD; the text was in word format by >> >> chapter. >> Yet at nova they want proof of purchase but then the ebook comes in a >> downloadable link from the dss counselor. >> You click on a link, save it to the computer, and click on the link to get >> >> it downloaded from the internet and it's a zipped file. >> >> I found this weird. The unfair thing is the link requires you to download >> >> an "expander" something that will unzip the file. >> You can only download a trial version of the expander for a certain period >> >> of time and then have to pay for it; so the next book I get from DSS will >> not be unzippable from online because the expander, stuff it, is a free >> trial for thirty days. >> >> This is a mess and I don't see why the dss counselor can't get a CD or >> better yet download the book, unzip it and put it on a CD! >> I opened the book and its unreadable junk so I'm trying to get another >> download link from the dss counselor. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co m > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Feb 5 09:03:32 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 02:03:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming In-Reply-To: <07DD0853D5A64184A95FD11B0CC5BE0C@stanford.edu> References: <07DD0853D5A64184A95FD11B0CC5BE0C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <4D4D1264.4020505@pcdesk.net> Howdy, Sorry for my late arrival to this discussion, but I've been just a bit busy with school and work. The short answer is that not really all that much has changed in the past 10 years or so as far as the computer science curriculum goes. The exact tools used for teaching have changed some, but over all the topics covered and the order in which they are covered really hasn't changed much. That makes sense if you consider it a bit because while we have had some major developments in technology, the foundations on which they are developed just haven't changed that much. Same general architectures, same players in the market, same programming languages, same algorithms, etc. That being said, there are some things you may find which are different. Some schools now place a greater emphasis on web based applications and their development. For instance, having you develop java applets or ruby applications instead of traditional console or gui based applications. It doesn't really matter as far as learning to develop software goes, but there you have it. Second, there have been some developments in the software life cycle and in how software is engineered, and computer science programs have adapted to encorperate these new ideas and models. Third, people have, in the past 5 years or so, really started to take notice of security issues as far as how they relate to computing. As a result, many computer science programs now offer one or more courses which focus on this topic. Usually it's an elective, not a requirement. At least it has been with every school I've looked it up for or talked to others about. Let me know if you would like more information. I can say more on this topic if desired, including providing a list of the general topics which would be covered in any decent computer science curriculum and the order in which those topics would most likely be covered. Joe From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat Feb 5 16:35:59 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:35:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming In-Reply-To: <4D4D1264.4020505@pcdesk.net> References: <07DD0853D5A64184A95FD11B0CC5BE0C@stanford.edu> <4D4D1264.4020505@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: Yes please. Could you talk about the topics covered? I'm also thinking of minoring in computer Science. What topics/credits would be required? Thanks, Jorge On Feb 5, 2011, at 4:03 AM, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > Howdy, > Sorry for my late arrival to this discussion, but I've been just a bit > busy with school and work. > > The short answer is that not really all that much has changed in the > past 10 years or so as far as the computer science curriculum goes. The > exact tools used for teaching have changed some, but over all the topics > covered and the order in which they are covered really hasn't changed > much. That makes sense if you consider it a bit because while we have > had some major developments in technology, the foundations on which they > are developed just haven't changed that much. Same general > architectures, same players in the market, same programming languages, > same algorithms, etc. > > That being said, there are some things you may find which are different. > Some schools now place a greater emphasis on web based applications and > their development. For instance, having you develop java applets or ruby > applications instead of traditional console or gui based applications. > It doesn't really matter as far as learning to develop software goes, > but there you have it. Second, there have been some developments in the > software life cycle and in how software is engineered, and computer > science programs have adapted to encorperate these new ideas and models. > Third, people have, in the past 5 years or so, really started to take > notice of security issues as far as how they relate to computing. As a > result, many computer science programs now offer one or more courses > which focus on this topic. Usually it's an elective, not a requirement. > At least it has been with every school I've looked it up for or talked > to others about. > > Let me know if you would like more information. I can say more on this > topic if desired, including providing a list of the general topics which > would be covered in any decent computer science curriculum and the order > in which those topics would most likely be covered. > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 23:23:07 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:23:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the material. I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. Bridgit Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Feb 5 23:30:08 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 15:30:08 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text References: Message-ID: <892BA22451D6421785EB48095F968585@stanford.edu> Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself > as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I > request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. > I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of > course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and > we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the > chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they > use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the > material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I > have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always > the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now > that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic > versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other > features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files > on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a > software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a > membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille > display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I > had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so > you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or > at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF > file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge > and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was > all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had > to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sat Feb 5 23:47:22 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:47:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer science info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you so much for the info. I am asking on behalf of my husband, Ross, who briefly minored in the topic years ago, and is considering getting a second degree in computer science. He has some foundational knowledge on the subject, but is looking to learn more that may help him in the classroom. This has been helpful, and I will let him know he can contact you for more info. Thanks. Bridgit Message: 25 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 02:03:32 -0700 From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming Message-ID: <4D4D1264.4020505 at pcdesk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Howdy, Sorry for my late arrival to this discussion, but I've been just a bit busy with school and work. The short answer is that not really all that much has changed in the past 10 years or so as far as the computer science curriculum goes. The exact tools used for teaching have changed some, but over all the topics covered and the order in which they are covered really hasn't changed much. That makes sense if you consider it a bit because while we have had some major developments in technology, the foundations on which they are developed just haven't changed that much. Same general architectures, same players in the market, same programming languages, same algorithms, etc. That being said, there are some things you may find which are different. Some schools now place a greater emphasis on web based applications and their development. For instance, having you develop java applets or ruby applications instead of traditional console or gui based applications. It doesn't really matter as far as learning to develop software goes, but there you have it. Second, there have been some developments in the software life cycle and in how software is engineered, and computer science programs have adapted to encorperate these new ideas and models. Third, people have, in the past 5 years or so, really started to take notice of security issues as far as how they relate to computing. As a result, many computer science programs now offer one or more courses which focus on this topic. Usually it's an elective, not a requirement. At least it has been with every school I've looked it up for or talked to others about. Let me know if you would like more information. I can say more on this topic if desired, including providing a list of the general topics which would be covered in any decent computer science curriculum and the order in which those topics would most likely be covered. Joe From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sun Feb 6 00:30:56 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 19:30:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <892BA22451D6421785EB48095F968585@stanford.edu> References: <892BA22451D6421785EB48095F968585@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <0AD7EBB3E8E24FB69F235A46E238A860@Cptr233> The PDF I got was very very big, so when I did try to use Adobe, it literally just did not nothing. When I ran it through Kurzwwil, it crashed my computer. Not to say that this always happens. I do also use RFBandD, Bookshare, and NLS. Getting the books from the publisher as a PDF, is my last resort too. Like this semester, one of my professors was okay with letting me use a later edition. My another wanted the most recent edition, thus why I had to get it from the publisher. The later edition is pretty much the same just a newer version. The version I am using is a 2010, and the version he originally requested was the 2011 version. I explained to the professor my dilemma and he was okay with using the later version. This is a professor I have worked with in the past, last semester, so he already knows what some times my difficulties are. I rather not use bookshare because of either one I have to read the book on the computer, which is fine especially if I need to know page numbers and such. But if I put the book on my stream, the TTS voice is so bad, with my hearing impairment I can not understand it. Now if I had a Braille display and could connected it up to my stream and read as it talks, I could handle that. I do have a Braille note mPower, but have never used it for bookshare. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself > as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I > request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. > I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of > course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and > we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the > chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they > use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the > material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I > have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always > the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now > that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic > versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other > features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files > on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a > software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a > membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille > display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I > had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so > you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or > at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF > file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge > and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was > all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had > to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5849 (20110205) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5849 (20110205) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 6 02:45:11 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> Brigitte, That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, to scan books for students! Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a salesman that way. Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at Nova though. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the material. I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. Bridgit Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sun Feb 6 02:45:33 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:45:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming In-Reply-To: References: <07DD0853D5A64184A95FD11B0CC5BE0C@stanford.edu> <4D4D1264.4020505@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <4D4E0B4D.50000@pcdesk.net> Hi, Just to warn you, this is going to be a rather long message. Here are the topics you would cover in a standard computer science program. I have not included info on other programs that include software or programming aspects, such as applied computing or computer information systems. Those math majors with a computer science component are also not included, even though that's the computer science degree for some schools. This is the topic list for a dedicated computer science program. Also, the order is only approximate. Schools may cover this info in a different order, some of it might be optional or not offered at all, etc. I've focused mostly on the computer science and mathematics, since those make up the back bone of any good computer science program. -- Computer Science Courses -- * Introductory course to programming. Usially this will use an object oriented language such as Java, and will cover basic programming and object oriented design. * Data structures and algorithms. Algorithms involving Searching, sorting, recursion. Data structures like lists, trees, stacks, and queues. * Sometimes a follow-on data structures course, including graphs, multi-way trees, hashing. This can be merged with the previous item, or sometimes offered later in the course sequence. * Computer organization and asembly language. The goal in this course is not to teach asembly per say, but to teach basic computer architecture. Teaching asembly as it were would be difficult since it varies with different types of hardware. Sometimes a separate "computer architecture" course is offered, sometimes it's rolled into this course. * Possibly a course in digital logic and digital circuits. * One or more courses on software design. These usually focus on object oriented designs since that's what's generally used in industry right now. Sometimes this is offered at this point, sometimes at the end of the course sequence, sometimes both. * Operating systems. This is not a course on how to use different operating systems, but rather a course on what goes into operating system design and programming. You'll probably have to do some low level programming in this course. An example of a problem you may be set would be: "you have a certain number of processes competing for CPU time. Write a program which mimics a round-robin process scheduler to allocate CPU time equally to all processes that want it." * Possibly a course on computer networks. This was required at one school I went to, optional at another. Talking to others seems to indicate it can really go either way. * Computational theory. You'll learn about ways to represent machine states, some algorithm analysis tools, that sort of thing. * Algorithm analysis. You will use the tools from the previous item to analyze the data structures and algorithms you already know, and maybe some new ones. * Possibly a cap stone course. For example, you might be asked to work with a team of students to design and implement a medium sized software system over the course of a semester. * Various other courses, sprinkled throughout the sequence. Examples might be compiler design, networks, computer security, relational databases, AI, and various other topics. Some will be required, some electives. That varies by school. -- Required Math -- * Calculous sequence. Some require Calc I and II only, some require Calc III in addition. * Some kind of course in discrete mathematics. Examples of what would be covered here would be: basic proofs and mathematical arguements, set theory, logic, and the "there exists" and "for all" math operations. * Some kind of algorithmic math course involving extensive use of matrices. Example: linear algebra, but some colleges have a substitute course. * A calculus based probability and statistics course. You'll also have general studies requirements, of course. All of the programs I've seen require two semesters of calc based physics, and you may need some other hard sciences like chemistry too. Technical communications and basic writing are also there, naturally. Wow I wasn't lying, that was a long message. Longest I've written in a while. Let me know if you have any questions. Joe From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 6 03:23:35 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 19:23:35 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > Brigitte, > That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what > upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the > ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't > have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the > name, to scan books for students! > Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows > universities/colleges to share scanned books! > I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four > year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for > students as long as they purchased a book. > Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the > live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare > ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for > english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in > handy. > For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a > salesman that way. > > Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for > DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student > via email. > That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at > Nova though. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself > as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I > request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. > I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of > course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and > we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the > chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they > use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the > material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I > have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always > the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now > that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic > versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other > features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files > on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a > software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a > membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille > display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I > had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so > you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or > at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF > file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge > and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was > all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had > to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 6 03:33:36 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:33:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> Message-ID: You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there > should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to what > DRC's should provide. > > Nicole > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> Brigitte, >> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what >> >> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't >> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the >> >> name, to scan books for students! >> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows >> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >> students as long as they purchased a book. >> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in >> >> handy. >> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >> salesman that way. >> >> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student >> via email. >> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at >> Nova though. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >> course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >> material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >> had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >> at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 6 04:36:03 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 23:36:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC><0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> Joshua, You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since convention is a long time! I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and getting quotes. But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille for math and science if you really push for it. Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there > should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to what > DRC's should provide. > > Nicole > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> Brigitte, >> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >> what >> >> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't >> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >> the >> >> name, to scan books for students! >> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows >> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >> students as long as they purchased a book. >> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >> in >> >> handy. >> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >> salesman that way. >> >> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student >> via email. >> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at >> Nova though. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >> course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >> material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >> had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >> at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 6 04:42:11 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:42:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, > You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read > that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get braille > books from your NLS regional library. > I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since > convention is a long time! > I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially for > english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and > getting quotes. > But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille > for math and science if you really push for it. > > Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are > supposed to provide. > Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books > from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought > those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its > rediculous services are lacking. > I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > > You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to > Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the > NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in > Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on > Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there >> should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to what >> DRC's should provide. >> >> Nicole >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> >>> Brigitte, >>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >>> what >>> >>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't >>> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >>> the >>> >>> name, to scan books for students! >>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows >>> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>> in >>> >>> handy. >>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >>> salesman that way. >>> >>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >>> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student >>> via email. >>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at >>> Nova though. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>> >>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >>> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >>> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>> material. >>> >>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >>> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >>> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>> >>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >>> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >>> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>> had to explain this to them. >>> >>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >>> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >>> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >>> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >>> at least know someone who can provide this information. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >>> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >>> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >>> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >>> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >>> >>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 6 06:21:30 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:21:30 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC><0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state have a department of services for the blind? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > Joshua, > You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read > that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get > braille books from your NLS regional library. > I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since > convention is a long time! > I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially > for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and > getting quotes. > But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you > braille for math and science if you really push for it. > > Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are > supposed to provide. > Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books > from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought > those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its > rediculous services are lacking. > I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > > You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to > Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the > NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in > Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on > Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there >> should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to >> what >> DRC's should provide. >> >> Nicole >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> >>> Brigitte, >>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >>> what >>> >>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >>> don't >>> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >>> the >>> >>> name, to scan books for students! >>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows >>> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>> four >>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>> in >>> >>> handy. >>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >>> salesman that way. >>> >>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >>> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student >>> via email. >>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>> at >>> Nova though. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>> >>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >>> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >>> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>> material. >>> >>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >>> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >>> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>> >>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >>> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >>> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>> had to explain this to them. >>> >>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >>> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >>> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >>> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >>> at least know someone who can provide this information. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >>> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >>> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >>> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >>> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >>> >>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 6 06:33:23 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 00:33:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state have a > department of services for the blind? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > > >> Joshua, >> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read >> >> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >> braille books from your NLS regional library. >> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >> >> convention is a long time! >> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >> for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >> >> getting quotes. >> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >> >> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >> supposed to provide. >> Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books >> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >> those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its >> rediculous services are lacking. >> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text >> >> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there >>> should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to >>> what >>> DRC's should provide. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> >>>> Brigitte, >>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >>>> what >>>> >>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >>>> don't >>>> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >>>> the >>>> >>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows >>>> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>> four >>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>> in >>>> >>>> handy. >>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >>>> salesman that way. >>>> >>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >>>> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student >>>> via email. >>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>> at >>>> Nova though. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >>>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>> >>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >>>> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >>>> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>> material. >>>> >>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >>>> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >>>> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>> >>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >>>> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >>>> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>> had to explain this to them. >>>> >>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >>>> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >>>> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >>>> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >>>> at least know someone who can provide this information. >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> Message: 9 >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >>>> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >>>> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >>>> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >>>> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >>>> >>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Sun Feb 6 07:49:27 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 02:49:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <90F1F80C-BED1-4CBB-A0F0-A7D38778B28F@gmail.com> If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must be frustrating... IC On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas > to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a > Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it > that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need > the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many > volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. > Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Joshua, >> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read >> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get braille >> books from your NLS regional library. >> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >> convention is a long time! >> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially for >> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >> getting quotes. >> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille >> for math and science if you really push for it. >> >> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >> supposed to provide. >> Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books >> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >> those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its >> rediculous services are lacking. >> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text >> >> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there >>> should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to what >>> DRC's should provide. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> >>>> Brigitte, >>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >>>> what >>>> >>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't >>>> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >>>> the >>>> >>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows >>>> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>> in >>>> >>>> handy. >>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >>>> salesman that way. >>>> >>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >>>> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student >>>> via email. >>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at >>>> Nova though. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >>>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>> >>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >>>> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >>>> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>> material. >>>> >>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >>>> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >>>> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>> >>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >>>> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >>>> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>> had to explain this to them. >>>> >>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >>>> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >>>> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >>>> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >>>> at least know someone who can provide this information. >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> Message: 9 >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >>>> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >>>> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >>>> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >>>> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >>>> >>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 6 14:21:45 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:21:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <90F1F80C-BED1-4CBB-A0F0-A7D38778B28F@gmail.com> References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> <90F1F80C-BED1-4CBB-A0F0-A7D38778B28F@gmail.com> Message-ID: All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a notetaker > for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas >> to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a >> Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it >> that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need >> the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many >> volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and >>> read >>> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >>> braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. >>> Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books >>> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >>> those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its >>> rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there >>>> should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to >>>> what >>>> DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >>>>> what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>>>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >>>>> don't >>>>> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows >>>>> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >>>>> salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >>>>> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >>>>> student >>>>> via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >>>>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, >>>>> I >>>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >>>>> and >>>>> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>>>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >>>>> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or >>>>> they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >>>>> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >>>>> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >>>>> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >>>>> always >>>>> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but >>>>> now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >>>>> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >>>>> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options >>>>> so >>>>> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >>>>> at least know someone who can provide this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>>>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >>>>> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >>>>> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >>>>> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >>>>> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 6 15:20:10 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 10:20:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC><0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu><0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC><90F1F80C-BED1-4CBB-A0F0-A7D38778B28F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26C533718DE6492E8601C7E3BDB9D3EC@OwnerPC> Hi joshua, That's bad; how do they expect you to write notes for your own study and in class? Get a notetaker like a braille note and if your counselor says no, go above her. A computer is not portable unless you get a laptop, but I'd recommend a notetaker anyway for its portability and battery life. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:21 AM To: \National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a notetaker > for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must be > frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas >> to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a >> Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it >> that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need >> the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many >> volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and >>> read >>> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >>> braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. >>> Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain >>> books >>> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >>> those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its >>> rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there >>>> should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to >>>> what >>>> DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >>>>> what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>>>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >>>>> don't >>>>> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows >>>>> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has >>>>> come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >>>>> salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >>>>> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >>>>> student >>>>> via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself >>>>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, >>>>> I >>>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >>>>> and >>>>> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>>>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >>>>> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or >>>>> they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download >>>>> the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >>>>> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though >>>>> I >>>>> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >>>>> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >>>>> always >>>>> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but >>>>> now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other >>>>> electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >>>>> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >>>>> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options >>>>> so >>>>> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >>>>> at least know someone who can provide this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>>>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >>>>> PDF >>>>> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >>>>> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >>>>> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >>>>> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Feb 6 16:19:22 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:19:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F@OwnerPC> <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866@stanford.edu> <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <2F10387A-B15D-4F10-B7F0-C99DA3F1F7DB@mac.com> Aren't they required to do that by law though? On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:33 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The > Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. > I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When > they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The > DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state have a >> department of services for the blind? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text >> >> >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read >>> >>> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >>> braille books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >>> >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. >>> Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books >>> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >>> those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its >>> rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there >>>> should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to >>>> what >>>> DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >>>>> what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>>>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >>>>> don't >>>>> have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows >>>>> universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >>>>> salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for >>>>> DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student >>>>> via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >>>>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >>>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >>>>> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>>>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >>>>> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >>>>> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >>>>> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >>>>> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >>>>> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >>>>> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >>>>> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >>>>> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >>>>> at least know someone who can provide this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>>>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >>>>> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >>>>> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >>>>> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >>>>> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From davidschool97 at gmail.com Sun Feb 6 18:14:04 2011 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David Thomas) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 12:14:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <0AD7EBB3E8E24FB69F235A46E238A860@Cptr233> References: <892BA22451D6421785EB48095F968585@stanford.edu> <0AD7EBB3E8E24FB69F235A46E238A860@Cptr233> Message-ID: <0C883562-7CE8-4DF5-A189-584840298CDB@gmail.com> Do you have embosser you could take the book share BRf to your empower and emboss them Sent from my iPhone On Feb 5, 2011, at 6:30 PM, "Marsha Drenth" wrote: > The PDF I got was very very big, so when I did try to use Adobe, it > literally just did not nothing. When I ran it through Kurzwwil, it crashed > my computer. Not to say that this always happens. I do also use RFBandD, > Bookshare, and NLS. Getting the books from the publisher as a PDF, is my > last resort too. Like this semester, one of my professors was okay with > letting me use a later edition. My another wanted the most recent edition, > thus why I had to get it from the publisher. The later edition is pretty > much the same just a newer version. The version I am using is a 2010, and > the version he originally requested was the 2011 version. I explained to the > professor my dilemma and he was okay with using the later version. This is a > professor I have worked with in the past, last semester, so he already knows > what some times my difficulties are. I rather not use bookshare because of > either one I have to read the book on the computer, which is fine especially > if I need to know page numbers and such. But if I put the book on my stream, > the TTS voice is so bad, with my hearing impairment I can not understand it. > Now if I had a Braille display and could connected it up to my stream and > read as it talks, I could handle that. I do have a Braille note mPower, but > have never used it for bookshare. > > Marsha > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a > reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office > might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with > Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have > Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works > better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the > PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I >> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >> course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >> we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >> material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It >> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >> the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now >> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a >> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >> had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >> at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5849 (20110205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5849 (20110205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com From aec732 at msn.com Sun Feb 6 19:06:23 2011 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:06:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] for Joshua and others with similar experiences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joshua,Annemarie Cooke here. First, if your VR counselor won't provide equipment you feel you need, you should speak to the supervisor of that counselor. And if that doesn't work, your blindness agency, by law, has a Client Assistance Program (CAP) which helps consumers resolve issues with the agency). Have you gone beyond a "no" from your counselor? Now is your opportunity to make a convincing case as to why you need a Pacmate or similar braille note taking device. List, please know that the Association on Higher Ed and Disability (AHEAD) runs a multiday annual workshop on creating alternative text materials for DSOs. They acknowledge individual students have individual needs and preferences when it comes to educational materials (www.AHEAD.org) And finally, I went to: nls.loc.gov and found info on the NLS library in AR: Address list for Arkansas Arkansas Regional Library Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped 900 West Capitol Avenue, Suite 100 Little Rock, AR 72201-3108 Librarian: John D Hall Library Code: AR1A Telephone: (501) 682-1155 Toll-free (In-state): (866) 660-0885 TDD: (501) 682-1002 FAX: (501) 682-1529 E-mail: nlsbooks at Library.Arkansas.gov or jd at Library.Arkansas.gov Web site: http://www.library.arkansas.gov/libraryForTheBlind/Pages/default.aspx Hours of Operation: 8:00-5:00 M-F Serves: Arkansas Subregional Library Library for the Blind and Handicapped, Southwest Magnolia, AR 71754 Library Code: AR1E From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 6 19:13:50 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 13:13:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] for Joshua and others with similar experiences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We had trouble in Pine Bluff. My counselor retired, and they took forever to train my current counselor. The problem was, that the Pine Bluff office was willing to help me, but the main one in Little Rock wouldn't cooperate. The guy over the Little Rock one said that I didn't need a Pac Mate, he only authorized them to provide the computer and Jaws. I need a Pac Mate to download my textbooks, and to take notes in class. I've tried to tell them this, but I'm having no success. I'm tired of having work-studies reading things to me. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Annemarie Cooke wrote: > > Hi Joshua,Annemarie Cooke here. First, if your VR counselor won't provide > equipment you feel you need, you should speak to the supervisor of that > counselor. And if that doesn't work, your blindness agency, by law, has a > Client Assistance Program (CAP) which helps consumers resolve issues with > the agency). Have you gone beyond a "no" from your counselor? Now is your > opportunity to make a convincing case as to why you need a Pacmate or > similar braille note taking device. > > List, please know that the Association on Higher Ed and Disability (AHEAD) > runs a multiday annual workshop on creating alternative text materials for > DSOs. They acknowledge individual students have individual needs and > preferences when it comes to educational materials (www.AHEAD.org) > > And finally, I went to: nls.loc.gov and found info on the NLS library in AR: > Address list for Arkansas > > > Arkansas > Regional Library > Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped > 900 West Capitol Avenue, Suite 100 > Little Rock, AR 72201-3108 > > Librarian: John D Hall > Library Code: AR1A > Telephone: (501) 682-1155 > Toll-free (In-state): (866) 660-0885 > TDD: (501) 682-1002 > FAX: (501) 682-1529 > E-mail: nlsbooks at Library.Arkansas.gov or jd at Library.Arkansas.gov > Web site: > http://www.library.arkansas.gov/libraryForTheBlind/Pages/default.aspx > > Hours of Operation: 8:00-5:00 M-F > > Serves: Arkansas > > Subregional Library > Library for the Blind and Handicapped, Southwest > Magnolia, AR 71754 > > Library Code: AR1E > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From snowball07 at gmail.com Sun Feb 6 19:13:50 2011 From: snowball07 at gmail.com (Janice Jeang) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 13:13:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] technology for sell Message-ID: Hello, I have the following items for sale: 1. Braille Note PK with Sendero GPS 2. Brailliant 40 3. Eye Pal Solo 4. Toshiba Satalite Laptop 5. Olympus DS-50 6. KNFB Reader Mobile – software only *all prices do not include shipping and handling. If interested or any questions, contact janice.jeang at gmail.com 1. Braille Note PK with Sendero GPS This unit was refurbished back in August of last year. It has the latest firmware, as well as what was a new battery at that time. It has just been sitting on my shelf, since I moved over to the Mac OS. The device also comes with the BrailleNote GPS from Sendero, as well as a 16GB compact flash card, and compact flash card reader; I will also throw in a GPS receiver if you ask for it. I’m asking $2000 or best offer. Information from the Humanware site about the device. http://www.humanware.com/en-usa/products/blindness/braillenotes/_details/id_26/braillenote_pk.html 2. Brailliant 40 Brailliant-40 braille display in perfect working order. Selling the item because I just have not been using it, and it might as well get some use. Included is the Brailliant, and a mini USB to USB cord, which I was last using it to charge. Fairly certain I should have the AC charger too. Item will come in its original box with all original paperwork. This display works with Apple products, JAWS and Window-Eyes. This device also works with System Access from Serotek. It does not have a keyboard for entering text but has a keypad for issuing screen reading commands. I am asking $1,500 or best offer. Here is the link to the page on Humanware's website for the device. http://www.humanware.com/en-usa/products/blindness/braille_displays/_details/id_34/brailliant_40.html 3. Eye Pal Solo I am asking $1,800 or best offer. Here is the link to the page on Abisee's website for the device. http://www.abisee.com/products/eye-pal-solo.html 4. Toshiba Satalite Laptop This is a used laptop recently reformatted, works perfect. Specs: Processor: Intel Pentium Dual T2330 @ 1.60 GHz Memory: 2GB RAM Hard Drive: 120GB OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit Screen: 15.4 Asking $350 or best offer. Website with more specs and pictures: http://www.clearanceclub.com/products/9307-Satellite-A205-S5810 5. Olympus DS-50 Asking $120 or best offer. Website with more info: http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-DS-50-Digital-voice-recorder/dp/B000MFR34Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1297017730&sr=8-2 6. KNFB Reader Mobile – software only Asking $900 or best offer. Website with more info: http://www.knfbreader.com/products-mobile.php From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 6 19:45:33 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 13:45:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For me, most material I have in PDF form, the DSO is able and willing to break it into smaller sections. They never send me inaccessible PDF's though which is great. True, I don't like converting PDF documents into text files since it loses its formatting. I have had problems, though, when I print then scan PDF's on my own. Usually they scan okay, but not always especially when they are downloaded from Blackboard because they often have pictures or, of course, these are usually not readable with JAWS. Fortunately, I have a wonderful DSO and they are willing to assist in any way I need. Two of my classes this semester did not have most of the required reading selected before hand, and the instructors are posting the material in inaccessible PDF's on Blackboard. The DSO has been allowed to have an administrative access so they can properly format them. Bridgit Message: 1 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:23:07 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the material. I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. Bridgit Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 15:30:08 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <892BA22451D6421785EB48095F968585 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, >I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller >sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they >can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share > and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the > chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or > they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can > download the material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though > I have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not > always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at > times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like > other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, > spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I > download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My > DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't > realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device > like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the > software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options > so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, > or at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a > PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was > huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then > it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. > Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:47:22 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] Computer science info Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you so much for the info. I am asking on behalf of my husband, Ross, who briefly minored in the topic years ago, and is considering getting a second degree in computer science. He has some foundational knowledge on the subject, but is looking to learn more that may help him in the classroom. This has been helpful, and I will let him know he can contact you for more info. Thanks. Bridgit Message: 25 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 02:03:32 -0700 From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming Message-ID: <4D4D1264.4020505 at pcdesk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Howdy, Sorry for my late arrival to this discussion, but I've been just a bit busy with school and work. The short answer is that not really all that much has changed in the past 10 years or so as far as the computer science curriculum goes. The exact tools used for teaching have changed some, but over all the topics covered and the order in which they are covered really hasn't changed much. That makes sense if you consider it a bit because while we have had some major developments in technology, the foundations on which they are developed just haven't changed that much. Same general architectures, same players in the market, same programming languages, same algorithms, etc. That being said, there are some things you may find which are different. Some schools now place a greater emphasis on web based applications and their development. For instance, having you develop java applets or ruby applications instead of traditional console or gui based applications. It doesn't really matter as far as learning to develop software goes, but there you have it. Second, there have been some developments in the software life cycle and in how software is engineered, and computer science programs have adapted to encorperate these new ideas and models. Third, people have, in the past 5 years or so, really started to take notice of security issues as far as how they relate to computing. As a result, many computer science programs now offer one or more courses which focus on this topic. Usually it's an elective, not a requirement. At least it has been with every school I've looked it up for or talked to others about. Let me know if you would like more information. I can say more on this topic if desired, including providing a list of the general topics which would be covered in any decent computer science curriculum and the order in which those topics would most likely be covered. Joe ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 19:30:56 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <0AD7EBB3E8E24FB69F235A46E238A860 at Cptr233> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The PDF I got was very very big, so when I did try to use Adobe, it literally just did not nothing. When I ran it through Kurzwwil, it crashed my computer. Not to say that this always happens. I do also use RFBandD, Bookshare, and NLS. Getting the books from the publisher as a PDF, is my last resort too. Like this semester, one of my professors was okay with letting me use a later edition. My another wanted the most recent edition, thus why I had to get it from the publisher. The later edition is pretty much the same just a newer version. The version I am using is a 2010, and the version he originally requested was the 2011 version. I explained to the professor my dilemma and he was okay with using the later version. This is a professor I have worked with in the past, last semester, so he already knows what some times my difficulties are. I rather not use bookshare because of either one I have to read the book on the computer, which is fine especially if I need to know page numbers and such. But if I put the book on my stream, the TTS voice is so bad, with my hearing impairment I can not understand it. Now if I had a Braille display and could connected it up to my stream and read as it talks, I could handle that. I do have a Braille note mPower, but have never used it for bookshare. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, >I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller >sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they >can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share > and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the > chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or > they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can > download the material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though > I have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not > always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at > times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like > other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, > spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I > download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My > DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't > realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device > like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the > software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options > so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, > or at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a > PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was > huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then > it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. > Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40 gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5849 (20110205) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5849 (20110205) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Brigitte, That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, to scan books for students! Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a salesman that way. Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at Nova though. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the material. I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. Bridgit Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:45:33 -0700 From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming Message-ID: <4D4E0B4D.50000 at pcdesk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Just to warn you, this is going to be a rather long message. Here are the topics you would cover in a standard computer science program. I have not included info on other programs that include software or programming aspects, such as applied computing or computer information systems. Those math majors with a computer science component are also not included, even though that's the computer science degree for some schools. This is the topic list for a dedicated computer science program. Also, the order is only approximate. Schools may cover this info in a different order, some of it might be optional or not offered at all, etc. I've focused mostly on the computer science and mathematics, since those make up the back bone of any good computer science program. -- Computer Science Courses -- * Introductory course to programming. Usially this will use an object oriented language such as Java, and will cover basic programming and object oriented design. * Data structures and algorithms. Algorithms involving Searching, sorting, recursion. Data structures like lists, trees, stacks, and queues. * Sometimes a follow-on data structures course, including graphs, multi-way trees, hashing. This can be merged with the previous item, or sometimes offered later in the course sequence. * Computer organization and asembly language. The goal in this course is not to teach asembly per say, but to teach basic computer architecture. Teaching asembly as it were would be difficult since it varies with different types of hardware. Sometimes a separate "computer architecture" course is offered, sometimes it's rolled into this course. * Possibly a course in digital logic and digital circuits. * One or more courses on software design. These usually focus on object oriented designs since that's what's generally used in industry right now. Sometimes this is offered at this point, sometimes at the end of the course sequence, sometimes both. * Operating systems. This is not a course on how to use different operating systems, but rather a course on what goes into operating system design and programming. You'll probably have to do some low level programming in this course. An example of a problem you may be set would be: "you have a certain number of processes competing for CPU time. Write a program which mimics a round-robin process scheduler to allocate CPU time equally to all processes that want it." * Possibly a course on computer networks. This was required at one school I went to, optional at another. Talking to others seems to indicate it can really go either way. * Computational theory. You'll learn about ways to represent machine states, some algorithm analysis tools, that sort of thing. * Algorithm analysis. You will use the tools from the previous item to analyze the data structures and algorithms you already know, and maybe some new ones. * Possibly a cap stone course. For example, you might be asked to work with a team of students to design and implement a medium sized software system over the course of a semester. * Various other courses, sprinkled throughout the sequence. Examples might be compiler design, networks, computer security, relational databases, AI, and various other topics. Some will be required, some electives. That varies by school. -- Required Math -- * Calculous sequence. Some require Calc I and II only, some require Calc III in addition. * Some kind of course in discrete mathematics. Examples of what would be covered here would be: basic proofs and mathematical arguements, set theory, logic, and the "there exists" and "for all" math operations. * Some kind of algorithmic math course involving extensive use of matrices. Example: linear algebra, but some colleges have a substitute course. * A calculus based probability and statistics course. You'll also have general studies requirements, of course. All of the programs I've seen require two semesters of calc based physics, and you may need some other hard sciences like chemistry too. Technical communications and basic writing are also there, naturally. Wow I wasn't lying, that was a long message. Longest I've written in a while. Let me know if you have any questions. Joe ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 19:23:35 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > Brigitte, > That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is > what > upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the > ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't > have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the > name, to scan books for students! > Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows > universities/colleges to share scanned books! > I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four > year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for > students as long as they purchased a book. > Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the > live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare > ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for > english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in > handy. > For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a > salesman that way. > > Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for > DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student > via email. > That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at > Nova though. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve > myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that > are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in > smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do > what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share > and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the > chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or > they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can > download the material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though > I have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not > always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at > times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like > other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, > spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I > download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My > DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't > realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device > like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the > software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options > so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, > or at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a > PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was > huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then > it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. > Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:33:36 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there > should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to > what DRC's should provide. > > Nicole > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> Brigitte, >> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >> what >> >> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think >> that's the >> >> name, to scan books for students! >> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >> students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and >> like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS >> and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; >> but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings >> like that NLS has come in >> >> handy. >> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >> salesman that way. >> >> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by >> the chapter. Not so at Nova though. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that >> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or >> they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >> download the material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >> always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at >> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like >> other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, >> spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I >> download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My >> DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't >> realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device >> like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the >> software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options >> so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your >> DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was >> huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then >> it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. >> Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 23:36:03 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Joshua, You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since convention is a long time! I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and getting quotes. But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille for math and science if you really push for it. Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there > should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to > what DRC's should provide. > > Nicole > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> Brigitte, >> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >> what >> >> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think >> that's the >> >> name, to scan books for students! >> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >> students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and >> like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS >> and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; >> but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings >> like that NLS has come in >> >> handy. >> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >> salesman that way. >> >> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by >> the chapter. Not so at Nova though. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that >> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by the >> chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, or >> they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >> download the material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >> always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at >> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like >> other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, >> spell words and other features similar to how we use computers. I >> download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny story though. My >> DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't >> realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device >> like a Victor and/or Braille display. In fact, they thought the >> software was the Victor Stream. I had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options >> so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your >> DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was >> huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then >> it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. >> Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:42:11 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, > You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and > read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can > get braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to > read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since convention is a > long time! I also agree that braille texts in college would be > wonderful especially for english classes where you need to read more > carefully for analysis and getting quotes. > But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille > for math and science if you really push for it. > > Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are > supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do > scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova doesn't > because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do not even > have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. > I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic > text > > You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to > Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the > NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in > Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on > Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >> there should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines >> as to what DRC's should provide. >> >> Nicole >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> >>> Brigitte, >>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>> is what >>> >>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >>> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I >>> think that's the >>> >>> name, to scan books for students! >>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >>> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>> students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and >>> like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used >>> NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not >>> textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require >>> readings like that NLS has come in >>> >>> handy. >>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>> a salesman that way. >>> >>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >>> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by >>> the chapter. Not so at Nova though. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that >>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>> >>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >>> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by >>> the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, >>> or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >>> download the material. >>> >>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>> >>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >>> always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at >>> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>> computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny >>> story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In >>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to >>> explain this to them. >>> >>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse >>> they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different >>> options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to >>> your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >>> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF >>> was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and >>> then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>> like. >>> >>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:21:30 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state have a department of services for the blind? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > Joshua, > You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and > read > that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get > braille books from your NLS regional library. > I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since > convention is a long time! > I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially > for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and > getting quotes. > But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you > braille for math and science if you really push for it. > > Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are > supposed to provide. > Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books > from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought > those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its > rediculous services are lacking. > I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > > You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to > Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the > NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in > Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on > Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >> there should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines >> as to what DRC's should provide. >> >> Nicole >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> >>> Brigitte, >>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>> is >>> what >>> >>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they >>> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I >>> think that's the >>> >>> name, to scan books for students! >>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>> in >>> >>> handy. >>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>> a salesman that way. >>> >>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >>> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by >>> the chapter. Not so at >>> Nova though. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that >>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>> >>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >>> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of times, I >>> purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send them by >>> the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for material, >>> or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >>> download the material. >>> >>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>> >>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >>> always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny at >>> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>> computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny >>> story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In >>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to >>> explain this to them. >>> >>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse >>> they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of different >>> options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to >>> your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >>> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF >>> was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and >>> then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>> like. >>> >>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 00:33:23 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state have > a department of services for the blind? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic > text > > >> Joshua, >> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and >> read >> >> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >> braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to >> read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >> >> convention is a long time! >> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful >> especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully >> for analysis and >> >> getting quotes. >> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >> >> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >> doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do >> not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. >> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> >>>> Brigitte, >>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>> is what >>>> >>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>> I think that's the >>>> >>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>> in >>>> >>>> handy. >>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>>> a salesman that way. >>>> >>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They >>>> scanned by the chapter. Not so at >>>> Nova though. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that >>>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>> >>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>> where I can download the material. >>>> >>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>> >>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is >>>> not always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny >>>> at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>> computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny >>>> story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In >>>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to >>>> explain this to them. >>>> >>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>> this information. >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> Message: 9 >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD >>>> as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the >>>> PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file >>>> and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>>> like. >>>> >>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 02:49:27 -0500 From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <90F1F80C-BED1-4CBB-A0F0-A7D38778B28F at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must be frustrating... IC On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas > to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a > Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it > that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need > the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many > volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. > Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >> Joshua, >> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and >> read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can >> get braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you >> to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since convention >> is a long time! I also agree that braille texts in college would be >> wonderful especially for english classes where you need to read more >> carefully for analysis and getting quotes. >> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille >> for math and science if you really push for it. >> >> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >> doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do >> not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. >> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> >>>> Brigitte, >>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>> is what >>>> >>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>> I think that's the >>>> >>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >>>> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>> students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and >>>> like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used >>>> NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not >>>> textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that >>>> require readings like that NLS has come in >>>> >>>> handy. >>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>>> a salesman that way. >>>> >>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They >>>> scanned by the chapter. Not so at Nova though. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that >>>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>> >>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>> where I can download the material. >>>> >>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>> >>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is >>>> not always the most efficient method. The text files sound funny >>>> at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>> computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny >>>> story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. In >>>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had to >>>> explain this to them. >>>> >>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>> this information. >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> Message: 9 >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD >>>> as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the >>>> PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file >>>> and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>>> like. >>>> >>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:21:45 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: "\\National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 10:20:10 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <26C533718DE6492E8601C7E3BDB9D3EC at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi joshua, That's bad; how do they expect you to write notes for your own study and in class? Get a notetaker like a braille note and if your counselor says no, go above her. A computer is not portable unless you get a laptop, but I'd recommend a notetaker anyway for its portability and battery life. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:21 AM To: \National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books >>> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >>> those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its >>> rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has >>>>> come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself >>>>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, >>>>> I >>>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download >>>>> the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other >>>>> electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:19:22 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <2F10387A-B15D-4F10-B7F0-C99DA3F1F7DB at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Aren't they required to do that by law though? On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:33 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The > Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. > I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When > they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The > DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state >> have a department of services for the blind? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read >>> >>> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >>> braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to >>> read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >>> >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful >>> especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully >>> for analysis and >>> >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They >>>>> scanned by the chapter. Not so at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>>> where I can download the material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice >>>>> because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, >>>>> para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>>> computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny >>>>> story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. >>>>> In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had >>>>> to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 7 ************************************* From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 6 20:00:02 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:00:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, Since I am a creative writing major, many of my textbooks are literature books so I like to use BARD, NLS or RFBD so I can enjoy the reading. I mark any places so I can refer to the electronic copy which has page numbers. RFBD is not my favorite, though, because the narrators do not always do a great job. I am reading an ancient Irish text this semester that has been translated into English and the RFBD narrator keeps tripping up on the Gaelic names. *smile* I have gotten use to reading with JAWS however. My emphasis is in creative nonfiction and many of these books are not currently available in accessible audio formats. I am not sure of the legality, but aren't schools now required to find material in proper formats as well as giving them to students in proper amounts of time? It seems like a school should have to have some form of scanning for students who require electronic copies. What do they do when books are not currently in an accessible format? So you can't buy the book and have the DSO scan it? I would look into that. Does your area have a good agency for the blind? Perhaps they can look into this. Bridgit Message: 5 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Brigitte, That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, to scan books for students! Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a salesman that way. Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at Nova though. Ashley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 6 20:18:44 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 15:18:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> No they do not scan books which frustrates me and other students! The other book I need as I said in the prior posts you got to unzip the stupid file from the internet and I did not do it right and now need another link to try downloading again. In my past schools yes they scanned matterial and I'd get it by the chapter via email or they got CDs of ebooks from the publisher. I'll use readers; the dss is not helpful. I'll be lucky if I can get another link to download my tech editing book. -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:00 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Ashley, Since I am a creative writing major, many of my textbooks are literature books so I like to use BARD, NLS or RFBD so I can enjoy the reading. I mark any places so I can refer to the electronic copy which has page numbers. RFBD is not my favorite, though, because the narrators do not always do a great job. I am reading an ancient Irish text this semester that has been translated into English and the RFBD narrator keeps tripping up on the Gaelic names. *smile* I have gotten use to reading with JAWS however. My emphasis is in creative nonfiction and many of these books are not currently available in accessible audio formats. I am not sure of the legality, but aren't schools now required to find material in proper formats as well as giving them to students in proper amounts of time? It seems like a school should have to have some form of scanning for students who require electronic copies. What do they do when books are not currently in an accessible format? So you can't buy the book and have the DSO scan it? I would look into that. Does your area have a good agency for the blind? Perhaps they can look into this. Bridgit Message: 5 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Brigitte, That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, to scan books for students! Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for students as long as they purchased a book. Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a salesman that way. Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so at Nova though. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 6 20:26:42 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:26:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > No they do not scan books which frustrates me and other students! > The other book I need as I said in the prior posts you got to unzip the > stupid file from the internet and I did not do it right and now need another > link to try downloading again. > In my past schools yes they scanned matterial and I'd get it by the chapter > via email or they got CDs of ebooks from the publisher. > > I'll use readers; the dss is not helpful. > I'll be lucky if I can get another link to download my tech editing book. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:00 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > Ashley, > > Since I am a creative writing major, many of my textbooks are literature > books so I like to use BARD, NLS or RFBD so I can enjoy the reading. I > mark any places so I can refer to the electronic copy which has page > numbers. RFBD is not my favorite, though, because the narrators do not > always do a great job. I am reading an ancient Irish text this semester > that has been translated into English and the RFBD narrator keeps > tripping up on the Gaelic names. *smile* > > I have gotten use to reading with JAWS however. My emphasis is in > creative nonfiction and many of these books are not currently available > in accessible audio formats. > > I am not sure of the legality, but aren't schools now required to find > material in proper formats as well as giving them to students in proper > amounts of time? It seems like a school should have to have some form > of scanning for students who require electronic copies. What do they do > when books are not currently in an accessible format? So you can't buy > the book and have the DSO scan it? I would look into that. > > Does your area have a good agency for the blind? Perhaps they can look > into this. > > Bridgit > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Brigitte, > That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is > what > upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the > ability > to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that they don't have > the > software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, > to > scan books for students! > Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows > > universities/colleges to share scanned books! > I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest > four > year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for > students as long as they purchased a book. > Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the > live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare > ocassions > because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or > history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. > For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a > salesman that way. > > Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for > DSOs > to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via > email. > That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so > at > Nova though. > > Ashley > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 6 20:29:04 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:29:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] A national standard, obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joshua, Many departments for the blind are only required to purchase a note taker or a computer. I trained in Iowa and they were going to purchase me both a PAC Mate and laptop with JAWS, but I moved to Nebraska before I started school again and here, they would only purchase me one or the other. A lot of this depends on funding and placement of funding. Directors need to actively focus on gaining funding for necessary programs and services as well as working to properly distributed that funding where it will benefit clients the most. If in this situation, I would advise students choose a laptop, or netbook (which is what I use) so you have the ability to take notes as well as complete assignments. It does make using Braille a problem, but some universities will supply Braille material if requested. My DSO outsources, but they can get my material in Braille. Also, I recommend purchasing your own technology if possible. I know much of it is expensive, but often necessary. Since going back to university, I have had to buy my own Victor Stream and I recently bought my Netbook for the convenience factor due to its size. If possible, do what you can to save up so you can buy any equipment you feel is necessary. Remember, not everything will be cheap in life and we will not always be clients of institutions that will purchase technology and material for us. I know what it is like to be a struggling college student so please do not take my comments as any criticism, but just as advice. I am a non-traditional student now, but I have been there-- hell, I'm still there! LOL Bridgit Message: 14 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:21:45 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: "\\National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 10:20:10 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <26C533718DE6492E8601C7E3BDB9D3EC at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi joshua, That's bad; how do they expect you to write notes for your own study and in class? Get a notetaker like a braille note and if your counselor says no, go above her. A computer is not portable unless you get a laptop, but I'd recommend a notetaker anyway for its portability and battery life. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:21 AM To: \National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books >>> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >>> those resources. Heck they do not even have an updated jaws. Its >>> rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has >>>>> come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount. They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself >>>>> as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents that are long, >>>>> I >>>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download >>>>> the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other >>>>> electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers. I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home. Funny story though. My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display. In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:19:22 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <2F10387A-B15D-4F10-B7F0-C99DA3F1F7DB at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Aren't they required to do that by law though? On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:33 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The > Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. > I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When > they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The > DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state >> have a department of services for the blind? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read >>> >>> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >>> braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to >>> read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >>> >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful >>> especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully >>> for analysis and >>> >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources. Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws. Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told! They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous. Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech. I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount. They >>>>> scanned by the chapter. Not so at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process. With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes. A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them. Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter. I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>>> where I can download the material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method. The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice >>>>> because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, >>>>> para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>>> computers. I download Book Share files on my own at home. Funny >>>>> story though. My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display. >>>>> In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream. I had >>>>> to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no. Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 7 ************************************* From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Feb 6 20:33:05 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:33:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] for Joshua and others with similar experiences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <858E6D33-3664-4289-A621-F52C0E8C13FE@mac.com> Joshua: I forgot what its called, but there's a program that does an annual selection of applicants for devices like the Packmate that covers up to half the cost of your technology. I don't know the link, but Google is your friend. Jorge On Feb 6, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > We had trouble in Pine Bluff. My counselor retired, and they took > forever to train my current counselor. The problem was, that the Pine > Bluff office was willing to help me, but the main one in Little Rock > wouldn't cooperate. The guy over the Little Rock one said that I > didn't need a Pac Mate, he only authorized them to provide the > computer and Jaws. I need a Pac Mate to download my textbooks, and to > take notes in class. I've tried to tell them this, but I'm having no > success. I'm tired of having work-studies reading things to me. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/6/11, Annemarie Cooke wrote: >> >> Hi Joshua,Annemarie Cooke here. First, if your VR counselor won't provide >> equipment you feel you need, you should speak to the supervisor of that >> counselor. And if that doesn't work, your blindness agency, by law, has a >> Client Assistance Program (CAP) which helps consumers resolve issues with >> the agency). Have you gone beyond a "no" from your counselor? Now is your >> opportunity to make a convincing case as to why you need a Pacmate or >> similar braille note taking device. >> >> List, please know that the Association on Higher Ed and Disability (AHEAD) >> runs a multiday annual workshop on creating alternative text materials for >> DSOs. They acknowledge individual students have individual needs and >> preferences when it comes to educational materials (www.AHEAD.org) >> >> And finally, I went to: nls.loc.gov and found info on the NLS library in AR: >> Address list for Arkansas >> >> >> Arkansas >> Regional Library >> Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped >> 900 West Capitol Avenue, Suite 100 >> Little Rock, AR 72201-3108 >> >> Librarian: John D Hall >> Library Code: AR1A >> Telephone: (501) 682-1155 >> Toll-free (In-state): (866) 660-0885 >> TDD: (501) 682-1002 >> FAX: (501) 682-1529 >> E-mail: nlsbooks at Library.Arkansas.gov or jd at Library.Arkansas.gov >> Web site: >> http://www.library.arkansas.gov/libraryForTheBlind/Pages/default.aspx >> >> Hours of Operation: 8:00-5:00 M-F >> >> Serves: Arkansas >> >> Subregional Library >> Library for the Blind and Handicapped, Southwest >> Magnolia, AR 71754 >> >> Library Code: AR1E >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 6 23:20:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:20:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation Message-ID: Hi all, As I said before I am used to windows xp. Going to windows 7 and its layout is worse than the microsoft ribbons. I find jaws gets stuck in the ribbons sometimes and you can’t go backward to the last option. The layout is weird. How do you best navigate it? For instance in the documents, there are two lists where as before it was one list and you could arrow up and down. How do you get to the other part of the screen? Jaws keeps saying tree view. When I enter on the folder, it opens the folder, but all options/files are displayed in the other part of the screen. Its confusing. Is tab the best option? I pressed right arrow to open the “tree view” which is the way things opened before. I still did not see the options for that folder. When you down arrow through the list, jaws says “level 2 something” and Level 3 something” etc. Also after creating a subfolder in documents, how do you save to it? I went to save in the file, shift tabbed back to the name of the folder, and pressed enter. Enter is equivalent to clicking it. This doesn’t work. A family member told me the folder name was not highlighted so that is why it didn’t work. You have to highlight it for it to recognize the folder. Thing is you don’t know if its highlighted. In past microsoft versions if you were on a folder, it was highlighted. You just listened to jaws to tell you where you were. I could down arrow then up arrow to highlight it I suppose. I found the last windows easier. Ashley From beckyasabo at gmail.com Sun Feb 6 23:44:17 2011 From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 16:44:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi everyone, I have a windows seven desktop that I just bought. I am still getting around in it too. So far it seems ok. Becky sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 4:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation Hi all, As I said before I am used to windows xp. Going to windows 7 and its layout is worse than the microsoft ribbons. I find jaws gets stuck in the ribbons sometimes and you can't go backward to the last option. The layout is weird. How do you best navigate it? For instance in the documents, there are two lists where as before it was one list and you could arrow up and down. How do you get to the other part of the screen? Jaws keeps saying tree view. When I enter on the folder, it opens the folder, but all options/files are displayed in the other part of the screen. Its confusing. Is tab the best option? I pressed right arrow to open the "tree view" which is the way things opened before. I still did not see the options for that folder. When you down arrow through the list, jaws says "level 2 something" and Level 3 something" etc. Also after creating a subfolder in documents, how do you save to it? I went to save in the file, shift tabbed back to the name of the folder, and pressed enter. Enter is equivalent to clicking it. This doesn't work. A family member told me the folder name was not highlighted so that is why it didn't work. You have to highlight it for it to recognize the folder. Thing is you don't know if its highlighted. In past microsoft versions if you were on a folder, it was highlighted. You just listened to jaws to tell you where you were. I could down arrow then up arrow to highlight it I suppose. I found the last windows easier. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c om From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 6 23:53:37 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:53:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] creating folders Message-ID: <2C51FA5D29284B39A32258528F91261A@OwnerPC> Hi all, What is a good way to create a new folder? I’d like it to be in the documents area. What order are folders read in? Ashley From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 00:02:56 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 19:02:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Transferring Audio Books on iTunes Message-ID: Hello, I used MP3 to iPod Audio Book Converter to turn a bunch of MP3 tracks into one M4B file. Then, I opened iTunes, went to File, and added that file to my Library. On my PC, it's showing up just fine under Books, but it's not synchronizing with my iPod. iTunes is the devil. I'm going to listen to that FS Cast on iTunes and JAWS 12, but if anyone has any ideas on why my audio book is not transferring over to the device, I sure would be appreciative. Also, any alternatives to iTunes that work well with JAWS would be great. Other than providing a quicker way to downloading and installing apps, I think it's a headache! Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From cowboy0210 at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 00:08:06 2011 From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com (cowboy0210 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 00:08:06 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Transferring Audio Books on iTunes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <710130897-1297037287-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1315790598-@bda2409.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I am not sure how to explain it effectively using a screen reader but you have to make sure the sync audiobooks tab is checked for syncing all audiobooks. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Joe Orozco" Sender: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 19:02:56 To: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Reply-To: jsorozco at gmail.com, National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Transferring Audio Books on iTunes Hello, I used MP3 to iPod Audio Book Converter to turn a bunch of MP3 tracks into one M4B file. Then, I opened iTunes, went to File, and added that file to my Library. On my PC, it's showing up just fine under Books, but it's not synchronizing with my iPod. iTunes is the devil. I'm going to listen to that FS Cast on iTunes and JAWS 12, but if anyone has any ideas on why my audio book is not transferring over to the device, I sure would be appreciative. Also, any alternatives to iTunes that work well with JAWS would be great. Other than providing a quicker way to downloading and installing apps, I think it's a headache! Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Feb 7 00:56:45 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:56:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ashley, I don't know anything about the Windows 7. I use it, but I don't have any of the problems you've had. I have noticed though, on some Websites that enter alone won't let you get a link to come up. I have to hit shift and enter together for the link to come up. I don't know if that's how you'd do it in Windows 7, but some Websites are like that. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > As I said before I am used to windows xp. Going to windows 7 and its layout > is worse than the microsoft ribbons. I find jaws gets stuck in the ribbons > sometimes and you can’t go backward to the last option. > > The layout is weird. How do you best navigate it? For instance in the > documents, there are two lists where as before it was one list and you could > arrow up and down. How do you get to the other part of the screen? Jaws > keeps saying tree view. When I enter on the folder, it opens the folder, > but all options/files are displayed in the other part of the screen. Its > confusing. > Is tab the best option? I pressed right arrow to open the “tree view” which > is the way things opened before. I still did not see the options for that > folder. When you down arrow through the list, jaws says “level 2 something” > and Level 3 something” etc. > > Also after creating a subfolder in documents, how do you save to it? I went > to save in the file, shift tabbed back to the name of the folder, and > pressed enter. Enter is equivalent to clicking it. This doesn’t work. A > family member told me the folder name was not highlighted so that is why it > didn’t work. > You have to highlight it for it to recognize the folder. Thing is you don’t > know if its highlighted. In past microsoft versions if you were on a > folder, it was highlighted. You just listened to jaws to tell you where you > were. I could down arrow then up arrow to highlight it I suppose. > I found the last windows easier. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 01:58:55 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 20:58:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Never Mind on Audio Book Question Message-ID: I figured it out. If you're using JAWS: 1. Use F6 to go to Sources. Arrow down to your device. 2. Tab until you get to a series of check boxes. Tick the Books box. 3. Tab again until you get to Sync Books. From this point forward you'll see options to sync all books or just certain books. Mine is now apparently working. Anyway, I Googled up and down, but it's a little harder to find screen reader instructions. Ultimately I just played around with the darn thing. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From eventhorizon315 at frontier.com Mon Feb 7 02:10:26 2011 From: eventhorizon315 at frontier.com (Bill) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 20:10:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] creating folders In-Reply-To: <2C51FA5D29284B39A32258528F91261A@OwnerPC> References: <2C51FA5D29284B39A32258528F91261A@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi there. Within the documents folder press the alt key and arrow to the new sub menu. Arrow to the right and press the enter key. You may need to press control A and press delete or the folder will be called new folder. Give the folder a name and then press enter. The folders will be journaled in alphabetical order. I hope this was helpful. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:53 PM Subject: [nabs-l] creating folders > Hi all, > What is a good way to create a new folder? I’d like it to be in the > documents area. > What order are folders read in? > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/eventhorizon315%40frontier.com > From djdan567 at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 13:26:26 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a highschool program in NJ called LEAD. I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing how involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it would be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the NABS meeting, I represented New Jersey. So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, you know where to contact me. Take care guys! -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Feb 7 14:30:09 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:30:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Welcome, Daniel. I'm Joshua Lester. I'm from Arkansas. I'm a college student. I joined the NFB last year. I hope you have a great time on this list. I'm a musician, as well. You need to subscribe to the music talk list. Just send your subscription request to musictlk-request at nfbnet.org. Write "subscribe," in the subject line. Send your posts to musictlk at nfbnet.org. You're good to go on that list now. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, Daniel Romero wrote: > Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and > singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New Jersey > Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a highschool > program in NJ called LEAD. > I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing how > involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it would > be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students > around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the NABS > meeting, I represented New Jersey. > So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, you > know where to contact me. Take care guys! > > > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From djdan567 at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 14:34:26 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:34:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey josh. Thank you for that information! Greatly appreciated! I'm going to subscribe now! On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > Welcome, Daniel. I'm Joshua Lester. I'm from Arkansas. I'm a college > student. I joined the NFB last year. I hope you have a great time on > this list. I'm a musician, as well. You need to subscribe to the music > talk list. Just send your subscription request to > musictlk-request at nfbnet.org. Write "subscribe," in the subject line. > Send your posts to musictlk at nfbnet.org. You're good to go on that list > now. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, Daniel Romero wrote: >> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New Jersey >> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a highschool >> program in NJ called LEAD. >> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing how >> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it would >> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the NABS >> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, you >> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From cheyenneandgem87 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 7 15:00:31 2011 From: cheyenneandgem87 at yahoo.com (Cali Sandel) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 07:00:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <875818.97293.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Mon, 2/7/11, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org wrote: From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 8 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date: Monday, February 7, 2011, 9:35 AM Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to     nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit     http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to     nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at     nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics:    1. Re: Obtaining electronic text (David Thomas)    2. for Joshua and others with similar experiences (Annemarie Cooke)    3. Re: for Joshua and others with similar experiences (Joshua Lester)    4. technology for sell (Janice Jeang)    5. Obtaining electronic text (Bridgit Pollpeter)    6. Obtaining electronic text (Bridgit Pollpeter)    7. Re: Obtaining electronic text (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)    8. Re: Obtaining electronic text (Joshua Lester)    9. A national standard, obtaining electronic text (Bridgit Pollpeter)   10. Re: for Joshua and others with similar experiences (Jorge Paez)   11. windows 7 navigation (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)   12. Re: windows 7 navigation (becky sabo)   13. creating folders (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)   14. Transferring Audio Books on iTunes (Joe Orozco)   15. Re: Transferring Audio Books on iTunes (cowboy0210 at gmail.com)   16. Re: windows 7 navigation (Joshua Lester)   17. Never Mind on Audio Book Question (Joe Orozco)   18. Re: creating folders (Bill)   19. Daniel ROmero -- Introduction (Daniel Romero)   20. Re: Daniel ROmero -- Introduction (Joshua Lester)   21. Re: Daniel ROmero -- Introduction (Daniel Romero) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 12:14:04 -0600 From: David Thomas To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <0C883562-7CE8-4DF5-A189-584840298CDB at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii Do you have embosser you could take the book share BRf to your empower and emboss them Sent from my iPhone On Feb 5, 2011, at 6:30 PM, "Marsha Drenth" wrote: > The PDF I got was very very big, so when I did try to use Adobe, it > literally just did not nothing. When I ran it through Kurzwwil, it crashed > my computer. Not to say that this always happens. I do also use RFBandD, > Bookshare, and NLS. Getting the books from the publisher as a PDF, is my > last resort too. Like this semester, one of my professors was okay with > letting me use a later edition. My another wanted the most recent edition, > thus why I had to get it from the publisher. The later edition is pretty > much the same just a newer version. The version I am using is a 2010, and > the version he originally requested was the 2011 version. I explained to the > professor my dilemma and he was okay with using the later version. This is a > professor I have worked with in the past, last semester, so he already knows > what some times my difficulties are. I rather not use bookshare because of > either one I have to read the book on the computer, which is fine especially > if I need to know page numbers and such. But if I put the book on my stream, > the TTS voice is so bad, with my hearing impairment I can not understand it. > Now if I had a Braille display and could connected it up to my stream and > read as it talks, I could handle that. I do have a Braille note mPower, but > have never used it for bookshare. > > Marsha  > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a > reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office > might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with > Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have > Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works > better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the > PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >> as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that are long, I >> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >> course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and >> we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the >> chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they >> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >> material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  It >> is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I >> have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my >> Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always >> the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at times, but now >> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >> features similar to how we use computers.  I download Book Share files >> on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a >> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >> display.  In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I >> had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so >> you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or >> at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF >> file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge >> and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was >> all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had >> to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5849 (20110205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5849 (20110205) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:06:23 -0500 From: Annemarie Cooke To: Subject: [nabs-l] for Joshua and others with similar experiences Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Joshua,Annemarie Cooke here. First, if your VR counselor won't provide equipment you feel you need, you should speak to the supervisor of that counselor. And if that doesn't work, your blindness agency, by law, has a Client Assistance Program (CAP) which helps consumers resolve issues with the agency). Have you gone beyond a "no" from your counselor? Now is your opportunity to make a convincing case as to why you need a Pacmate or similar braille note taking device. List, please know that the Association on Higher Ed and Disability (AHEAD) runs a multiday annual workshop on creating alternative text materials for DSOs. They acknowledge individual students have individual needs and  preferences when it comes to educational materials (www.AHEAD.org) And finally, I went to: nls.loc.gov and found info on the NLS library in AR: Address list for Arkansas Arkansas Regional Library Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped 900 West Capitol Avenue, Suite 100 Little Rock, AR 72201-3108 Librarian: John D Hall Library Code: AR1A Telephone: (501) 682-1155 Toll-free (In-state): (866) 660-0885 TDD: (501) 682-1002 FAX: (501) 682-1529 E-mail: nlsbooks at Library.Arkansas.gov or jd at Library.Arkansas.gov Web site: http://www.library.arkansas.gov/libraryForTheBlind/Pages/default.aspx Hours of Operation: 8:00-5:00 M-F Serves: Arkansas Subregional Library Library for the Blind and Handicapped, Southwest Magnolia, AR 71754 Library Code: AR1E                           ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 13:13:50 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] for Joshua and others with similar experiences Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We had trouble in Pine Bluff. My counselor retired, and they took forever to train my current counselor. The problem was, that the Pine Bluff office was willing to help me, but the main one in Little Rock wouldn't cooperate. The guy over the Little Rock one said that I didn't need a Pac Mate, he only authorized them to provide the computer and Jaws. I need a Pac Mate to download my textbooks, and to take notes in class. I've tried to tell them this, but I'm having no success. I'm tired of having work-studies reading things to me. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Annemarie Cooke wrote: > > Hi Joshua,Annemarie Cooke here. First, if your VR counselor won't provide > equipment you feel you need, you should speak to the supervisor of that > counselor. And if that doesn't work, your blindness agency, by law, has a > Client Assistance Program (CAP) which helps consumers resolve issues with > the agency). Have you gone beyond a "no" from your counselor? Now is your > opportunity to make a convincing case as to why you need a Pacmate or > similar braille note taking device. > > List, please know that the Association on Higher Ed and Disability (AHEAD) > runs a multiday annual workshop on creating alternative text materials for > DSOs. They acknowledge individual students have individual needs and > preferences when it comes to educational materials (www.AHEAD.org) > > And finally, I went to: nls.loc.gov and found info on the NLS library in AR: > Address list for Arkansas > > > Arkansas > Regional Library > Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped > 900 West Capitol Avenue, Suite 100 > Little Rock, AR 72201-3108 > > Librarian: John D Hall > Library Code: AR1A > Telephone: (501) 682-1155 > Toll-free (In-state): (866) 660-0885 > TDD: (501) 682-1002 > FAX: (501) 682-1529 > E-mail: nlsbooks at Library.Arkansas.gov or jd at Library.Arkansas.gov > Web site: > http://www.library.arkansas.gov/libraryForTheBlind/Pages/default.aspx > > Hours of Operation: 8:00-5:00 M-F > > Serves: Arkansas > > Subregional Library > Library for the Blind and Handicapped, Southwest > Magnolia, AR 71754 > > Library Code: AR1E > > > >                          > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 13:13:50 -0600 From: Janice Jeang To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] technology for sell Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hello, I have the following items for sale: 1. Braille Note PK with Sendero GPS 2. Brailliant 40 3. Eye Pal Solo 4. Toshiba Satalite Laptop 5. Olympus DS-50 6. KNFB Reader Mobile ? software only *all prices do not include shipping and handling. If interested or any questions, contact janice.jeang at gmail.com 1. Braille Note PK with Sendero GPS This unit was refurbished back in August of last year. It has the latest firmware, as well as what was a new battery at that time. It has just been sitting on my shelf, since I moved over to the Mac OS. The device also comes with the BrailleNote GPS from Sendero, as well as a 16GB compact flash card, and compact flash card reader; I will also throw in a GPS receiver if you ask for it. I?m asking  $2000 or best offer. Information from the Humanware site about the device. http://www.humanware.com/en-usa/products/blindness/braillenotes/_details/id_26/braillenote_pk.html 2. Brailliant 40 Brailliant-40 braille display in perfect working order. Selling the item because I just have not been using it, and it might as well get some use. Included is the Brailliant, and a mini USB to USB cord, which I was last using it to charge. Fairly certain I should have the AC charger too. Item will come in its original box with all original paperwork. This display works with Apple products, JAWS and Window-Eyes. This device also works with System Access from Serotek. It does not have a keyboard for entering text but has a keypad for issuing screen reading commands. I am asking $1,500 or best offer. Here is the link to the page on Humanware's website for the device. http://www.humanware.com/en-usa/products/blindness/braille_displays/_details/id_34/brailliant_40.html 3. Eye Pal Solo I am asking $1,800 or best offer. Here is the link to the page on Abisee's website for the device. http://www.abisee.com/products/eye-pal-solo.html 4. Toshiba Satalite Laptop This is a used laptop recently reformatted, works perfect. Specs: Processor: Intel Pentium Dual T2330 @ 1.60 GHz Memory: 2GB RAM Hard Drive: 120GB OS: Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit Screen: 15.4 Asking $350 or best offer. Website with more specs and pictures: http://www.clearanceclub.com/products/9307-Satellite-A205-S5810 5. Olympus DS-50 Asking $120 or best offer. Website with more info: http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-DS-50-Digital-voice-recorder/dp/B000MFR34Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1297017730&sr=8-2 6. KNFB Reader Mobile ? software only Asking $900 or best offer. Website with more info: http://www.knfbreader.com/products-mobile.php ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 13:45:33 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For me, most material I have in PDF form, the DSO is able and willing to break it into smaller sections.  They never send me inaccessible PDF's though which is great. True, I don't like converting PDF documents into text files since it loses its formatting.  I have had problems, though, when I print then scan PDF's on my own.  Usually they scan okay, but not always especially when they are downloaded from Blackboard because they often have pictures or, of course, these are usually not readable with JAWS. Fortunately, I have a wonderful DSO and they are willing to assist in any way I need.  Two of my classes this semester did not have most of the required reading selected before hand, and the instructors are posting the material in inaccessible PDF's on Blackboard.  The DSO has been allowed to have an administrative access so they can properly format them. Bridgit Message: 1 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:23:07 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the material. I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had to explain this to them. Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. Bridgit Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 15:30:08 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <892BA22451D6421785EB48095F968585 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that are long, >I  request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller >sections.  I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they >can, but of  course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share > and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the > chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or > they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can > download the material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though > I have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not > always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at > times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like > other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, > spell words and other features similar to how we use computers.  I > download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My > DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't > realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device > like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In fact, they thought the > software was the Victor Stream.  I had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options > so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, > or at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a > PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was > huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then > it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. > Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 17:47:22 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] Computer science info Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thank you so much for the info.  I am asking on behalf of my husband, Ross, who briefly minored in the topic years ago, and is considering getting a second degree in computer science. He has some foundational knowledge on the subject, but is looking to learn more that may help him in the classroom. This has been helpful, and I will let him know he can contact you for more info. Thanks. Bridgit Message: 25 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 02:03:32 -0700 From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming Message-ID: <4D4D1264.4020505 at pcdesk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Howdy, Sorry for my late arrival to this discussion, but I've been just a bit busy with school and work. The short answer is that not really all that much has changed in the past 10 years or so as far as the computer science curriculum goes. The exact tools used for teaching have changed some, but over all the topics covered and the order in which they are covered really hasn't changed much. That makes sense if you consider it a bit because while we have had some major developments in technology, the foundations on which they are developed just haven't changed that much. Same general architectures, same players in the market, same programming languages, same algorithms, etc. That being said, there are some things you may find which are different. Some schools now place a greater emphasis on web based applications and their development. For instance, having you develop java applets or ruby applications instead of traditional console or gui based applications. It doesn't really matter as far as learning to develop software goes, but there you have it. Second, there have been some developments in the software life cycle and in how software is engineered, and computer science programs have adapted to encorperate these new ideas and models. Third, people have, in the past 5 years or so, really started to take notice of security issues as far as how they relate to computing. As a result, many computer science programs now offer one or more courses which focus on this topic. Usually it's an elective, not a requirement. At least it has been with every school I've looked it up for or talked to others about. Let me know if you would like more information. I can say more on this topic if desired, including providing a list of the general topics which would be covered in any decent computer science curriculum and the order in which those topics would most likely be covered. Joe ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 19:30:56 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <0AD7EBB3E8E24FB69F235A46E238A860 at Cptr233> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" The PDF I got was very very big, so when I did try to use Adobe, it literally just did not nothing. When I ran it through Kurzwwil, it crashed my computer. Not to say that this always happens. I do also use RFBandD, Bookshare, and NLS. Getting the books from the publisher as a PDF, is my last resort too. Like this semester, one of my professors was okay with letting me use a later edition. My another wanted the most recent edition, thus why I had to get it from the publisher. The later edition is pretty much the same just a newer version. The version I am using is a 2010, and the version he originally requested was the 2011 version. I explained to the professor my dilemma and he was okay with using the later version. This is a professor I have worked with in the past, last semester, so he already knows what some times my difficulties are. I rather not use bookshare because of either one I have to read the book on the computer, which is fine especially if I need to know page numbers and such. But if I put the book on my stream, the TTS voice is so bad, with my hearing impairment I can not understand it. Now if I had a Braille display and could connected it up to my stream and read as it talks, I could handle that. I do have a Braille note mPower, but have never used it for bookshare. Marsha  -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Breaking up a PDF might not be a problem. However, especially if there is a reasonably large number of other students with disabilities, the office might not want to convert a PDF to a word document if it is readable with Jaws without conversion. If you don't want to deal with the PDF and have Kurzweil, you can run the document through the virtual printer. This works better than saving as text because the formatting is not lost. Also, if the PDF is protected, I don't think that you can save it as text. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself >as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that are long, >I  request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller >sections.  I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they >can, but of  course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share > and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the > chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or > they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can > download the material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though > I have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not > always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at > times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like > other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, > spell words and other features similar to how we use computers.  I > download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My > DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't > realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device > like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In fact, they thought the > software was the Victor Stream.  I had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options > so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, > or at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a > PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was > huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then > it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. > Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40 gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5849 (20110205) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5849 (20110205) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Brigitte, That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, to scan books for students! Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for students as long as they purchased a book. Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a salesman that way. Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter.  Not so at Nova though. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the material. I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had to explain this to them. Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. Bridgit Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. Sorry your college way is so complicated. Marsha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 19:45:33 -0700 From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for infoComputer programming Message-ID: <4D4E0B4D.50000 at pcdesk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Just to warn you, this is going to be a rather long message. Here are the topics you would cover in a standard computer science program. I have not included info on other programs that include software or programming aspects, such as applied computing or computer information systems. Those math majors with a computer science component are also not included, even though that's the computer science degree for some schools. This is the topic list for a dedicated computer science program. Also, the order is only approximate. Schools may cover this info in a different order, some of it might be optional or not offered at all, etc. I've focused mostly on the computer science and mathematics, since those make up the back bone of any good computer science program. -- Computer Science Courses -- * Introductory course to programming. Usially this will use an object oriented language such as Java, and will cover basic programming and object oriented design. * Data structures and algorithms. Algorithms involving Searching, sorting, recursion. Data structures like lists, trees, stacks, and queues. * Sometimes a follow-on data structures course, including graphs, multi-way trees, hashing. This can be merged with the previous item, or sometimes offered later in the course sequence. * Computer organization and asembly language. The goal in this course is not to teach asembly per say, but to teach basic computer architecture. Teaching asembly as it were would be difficult since it varies with different types of hardware. Sometimes a separate "computer architecture" course is offered, sometimes it's rolled into this course. * Possibly a course in digital logic and digital circuits. * One or more courses on software design. These usually focus on object oriented designs since that's what's generally used in industry right now. Sometimes this is offered at this point, sometimes at  the end of the course sequence, sometimes both. * Operating systems. This is not a course on how to use different operating systems, but rather a course on what goes into operating system design and programming. You'll probably have to do some low level programming in this course. An example of a problem you may be set would be: "you have a certain number of processes competing for CPU time. Write a program which mimics a round-robin process scheduler to allocate CPU time equally to all processes that want it." * Possibly a course on computer networks. This was required at one school I went to, optional at another. Talking to others seems to indicate it can really go either way. * Computational theory. You'll learn about ways to represent machine states, some algorithm analysis tools, that sort of thing. * Algorithm analysis. You will use the tools from the previous item to analyze the data structures and algorithms you already know, and maybe some new ones. * Possibly a cap stone course. For example, you might be asked to work with a team of students to design and implement a medium sized software system over the course of a semester. * Various other courses, sprinkled throughout the sequence. Examples might be compiler design, networks, computer security, relational databases, AI, and various other topics. Some will be required, some electives. That varies by school. -- Required Math -- * Calculous sequence. Some require Calc I and II only, some require Calc III in addition. * Some kind of course in discrete mathematics. Examples of what would be covered here would be: basic proofs and mathematical arguements, set theory, logic, and the "there exists" and "for all" math operations. * Some kind of algorithmic math course involving extensive use of matrices. Example: linear algebra, but some colleges have a substitute course. * A calculus based probability and statistics course. You'll also have general studies requirements, of course. All of the programs I've seen require two semesters of calc based physics, and you may need some other hard sciences like chemistry too. Technical communications and basic writing are also there, naturally. Wow I wasn't lying, that was a long message. Longest I've written in a while. Let me know if you have any questions. Joe ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 19:23:35 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re:  Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <0289161648BA4E5CB2C1A657C0943866 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=response And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > Brigitte, > That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is > what > upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the > ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they don't > have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the > name, to scan books for students! > Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows > universities/colleges to share scanned books! > I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four > year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for > students as long as they purchased a book. > Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the > live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare > ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for > english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in > handy. > For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a > salesman that way. > > Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for > DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student > via email. > That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter.  Not so at > Nova though. > > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve > myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that > are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in > smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do > what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. > > We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share > and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I > purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the > chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or > they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can > download the material. > > I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with > electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  It > is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, though > I have grown use to JAWS's drone! > > Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on my > Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not > always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at > times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like > other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, > spell words and other features similar to how we use computers.  I > download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My > DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't > realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device > like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In fact, they thought the > software was the Victor Stream.  I had to explain this to them. > > Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing > material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can > make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they > can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options > so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your DSO, > or at least know someone who can provide this information. > > Bridgit > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 > From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they > request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a > PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was > huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then > it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. > Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. > > Sorry your college way is so complicated. > > Marsha > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:33:36 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there > should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to > what DRC's should provide. > > Nicole > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> Brigitte, >> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >> what >> >> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they >> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think >> that's the >> >> name, to scan books for students! >> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >> students as long as they purchased a book. Of  course I use RFB and >> like you prefer the live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS >> and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; >> but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings >> like that NLS has come in >> >> handy. >> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >> salesman that way. >> >> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by >> the chapter.  Not so at Nova though. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that >> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the >> chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or >> they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >> download the material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  >> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >> always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at >> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like >> other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, >> spell words and other features similar to how we use computers.  I >> download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My >> DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't >> realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device >> like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In fact, they thought the >> software was the Victor Stream.  I had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options >> so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your >> DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was >> huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then >> it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. >> Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 23:36:03 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID: <0FA708973BC94EE79A4195EF30A62FD4 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Joshua, You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since convention is a long time! I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and getting quotes. But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille for math and science if you really push for it. Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do not even have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that there > should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines as to > what DRC's should provide. > > Nicole > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > >> Brigitte, >> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is >> what >> >> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they >> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think >> that's the >> >> name, to scan books for students! >> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >> students as long as they purchased a book. Of  course I use RFB and >> like you prefer the live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS >> and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; >> but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings >> like that NLS has come in >> >> handy. >> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a >> salesman that way. >> >> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by >> the chapter.  Not so at Nova though. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that >> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >> >> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I >> purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by the >> chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, or >> they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >> download the material. >> >> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  >> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >> >> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >> always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at >> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like >> other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by para, >> spell words and other features similar to how we use computers.  I >> download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My >> DSO thought Book Share was a software you downloaded, they didn't >> realize, one, you needed a membership, and two, it required a device >> like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In fact, they thought the >> software was the Victor Stream.  I had to explain this to them. >> >> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you can >> make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse they >> can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different options >> so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to your >> DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >> From: "Marsha Drenth" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF was >> huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and then >> it was all good. I got another book this way again this semester. >> Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is like. >> >> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:42:11 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, Joshua On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, > You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and > read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can > get braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to > read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since convention is a > long time! I also agree that braille texts in college would be > wonderful especially for english classes where you need to read more > carefully for analysis and getting quotes. > But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille > for math and science if you really push for it. > > Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are > supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do > scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova doesn't > because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do not even > have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. > I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic > text > > You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to > Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the > NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in > Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on > Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >> there should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines >> as to what DRC's should provide. >> >> Nicole >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> >>> Brigitte, >>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>> is what >>> >>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they >>> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I >>> think that's the >>> >>> name, to scan books for students! >>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >>> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>> students as long as they purchased a book. Of  course I use RFB and >>> like you prefer the live voice too over speech.  I also have used >>> NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not >>> textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require >>> readings like that NLS has come in >>> >>> handy. >>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>> a salesman that way. >>> >>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >>> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by >>> the chapter.  Not so at Nova though. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that >>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>> >>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >>> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I >>> purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by >>> the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, >>> or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >>> download the material. >>> >>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  >>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>> >>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >>> always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at >>> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>> computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny >>> story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In >>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had to >>> explain this to them. >>> >>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse >>> they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different >>> options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to >>> your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >>> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF >>> was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and >>> then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>> like. >>> >>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:21:30 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=response Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state have a department of services for the blind? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > Joshua, > You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and > read > that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get > braille books from your NLS regional library. > I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since > convention is a long time! > I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially > for english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and > getting quotes. > But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you > braille for math and science if you really push for it. > > Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are > supposed to provide. > Again, I believe most universities/colleges do scan books or obtain books > from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought > those resources.  Heck they do not even have an updated jaws.  Its > rediculous services are lacking. > I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text > > You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to > Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the > NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in > Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on > Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >> there should be some kind of national standard or at least guidelines >> as to what DRC's should provide. >> >> Nicole >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >> >> >>> Brigitte, >>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>> is >>> what >>> >>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the >>> ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they >>> don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I >>> think that's the >>> >>> name, to scan books for students! >>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>> in >>> >>> handy. >>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>> a salesman that way. >>> >>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the >>> student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by >>> the chapter.  Not so at >>> Nova though. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that >>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>> >>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book Share >>> and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of times, I >>> purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send them by >>> the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for material, >>> or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can >>> download the material. >>> >>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books.  >>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>> >>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is not >>> always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny at >>> times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>> computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny >>> story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In >>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had to >>> explain this to them. >>> >>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the worse >>> they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of different >>> options so you can be helpful with methods that may be unfamiliar to >>> your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide this information. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, they >>> request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD as a >>> PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the PDF >>> was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file and >>> then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>> like. >>> >>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 00:33:23 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state have > a department of services for the blind? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic > text > > >> Joshua, >> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and >> read >> >> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >> braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to >> read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >> >> convention is a long time! >> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful >> especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully >> for analysis and >> >> getting quotes. >> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >> >> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >> doesn't because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do >> not even have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. >> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> >>>> Brigitte, >>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>> is what >>>> >>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>> I think that's the >>>> >>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>> in >>>> >>>> handy. >>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>>> a salesman that way. >>>> >>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They >>>> scanned by the chapter.  Not so at >>>> Nova though. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that >>>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>> >>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>> where I can download the material. >>>> >>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>> >>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is >>>> not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny >>>> at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>> computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny >>>> story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In >>>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had to >>>> explain this to them. >>>> >>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>> this information. >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> Message: 9 >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD >>>> as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the >>>> PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file >>>> and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>>> like. >>>> >>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 02:49:27 -0500 From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID: <90F1F80C-BED1-4CBB-A0F0-A7D38778B28F at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must be frustrating... IC On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of Arkansas > to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good deal on a > Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate doing it > that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. I need > the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too many > volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. > Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >> Joshua, >> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS and >> read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can >> get braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you >> to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since convention >> is a long time! I also agree that braille texts in college would be >> wonderful especially for english classes where you need to read more >> carefully for analysis and getting quotes. >> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you braille >> for math and science if you really push for it. >> >> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >> doesn't because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do >> not even have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. >> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>> >>> >>>> Brigitte, >>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>> is what >>>> >>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>> I think that's the >>>> >>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year >>>> college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>> students as long as they purchased a book. Of  course I use RFB and >>>> like you prefer the live voice too over speech.  I also have used >>>> NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not >>>> textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that >>>> require readings like that NLS has come in >>>> >>>> handy. >>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of >>>> a salesman that way. >>>> >>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They >>>> scanned by the chapter.  Not so at Nova though. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that >>>> are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in >>>> smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do >>>> what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>> >>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>> where I can download the material. >>>> >>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>> >>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files on >>>> my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille is >>>> not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound funny >>>> at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, >>>> like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, para by >>>> para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>> computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny >>>> story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  In >>>> fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had to >>>> explain this to them. >>>> >>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>> this information. >>>> >>>> Bridgit >>>> >>>> Message: 9 >>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a CD >>>> as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as the >>>> PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text file >>>> and then it was all good. I got another book this way again this >>>> semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what it is >>>> like. >>>> >>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:21:45 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: "\\National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers.  I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display.  In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 10:20:10 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID: <26C533718DE6492E8601C7E3BDB9D3EC at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Hi joshua, That's bad; how do they expect you to write notes for your own study and in class?  Get a notetaker like a braille note and if your counselor says no, go above her. A computer is not portable unless you get a laptop, but I'd recommend a notetaker anyway for its portability and battery life. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:21 AM To: \National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books >>> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >>> those resources.  Heck they do not even have an updated jaws.  Its >>> rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has >>>>> come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself >>>>> as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that are long, >>>>> I >>>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download >>>>> the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other >>>>> electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers.  I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display.  In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:19:22 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID: <2F10387A-B15D-4F10-B7F0-C99DA3F1F7DB at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Aren't they required to do that by law though? On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:33 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The > Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. > I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When > they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The > DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state >> have a department of services for the blind? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read >>> >>> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >>> braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to >>> read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >>> >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful >>> especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully >>> for analysis and >>> >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They >>>>> scanned by the chapter.  Not so at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>>> where I can download the material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice >>>>> because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, >>>>> para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>>> computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny >>>>> story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  >>>>> In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had >>>>> to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 7 ************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:00:02 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ashley, Since I am a creative writing major, many of my textbooks are literature books so I like to use BARD, NLS or RFBD so I can enjoy the reading.  I mark any places so I can refer to the electronic copy which has page numbers.  RFBD is not my favorite, though, because the narrators do not always do a great job.  I am reading an ancient Irish text this semester that has been translated into English and the RFBD narrator keeps tripping up on the Gaelic names.  *smile* I have gotten use to reading with JAWS however.  My emphasis is in creative nonfiction and many of these books are not currently available in accessible audio formats. I am not sure of the legality, but aren't schools now required to find material in proper formats as well as giving them to students in proper amounts of time?  It seems like a school should have to have some form of scanning for students who require electronic copies.  What do they do when books are not currently in an accessible format?  So you can't buy the book and have the DSO scan it?  I would look into that. Does your area have a good agency for the blind?  Perhaps they can look into this. Bridgit Message: 5 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Brigitte, That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, to scan books for students! Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for students as long as they purchased a book. Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a salesman that way. Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter.  Not so at Nova though. Ashley ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 15:18:44 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original No they do not scan books which frustrates me and other students! The other book I need as I said in the prior posts you got to unzip the stupid file from the internet and I did not do it right and now need another link to try downloading again. In my past schools yes they scanned matterial and I'd get it by the chapter via email or they got CDs of ebooks from the publisher. I'll use readers; the dss is not helpful. I'll be lucky if I can get another link to download my tech editing book. -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:00 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Ashley, Since I am a creative writing major, many of my textbooks are literature books so I like to use BARD, NLS or RFBD so I can enjoy the reading.  I mark any places so I can refer to the electronic copy which has page numbers.  RFBD is not my favorite, though, because the narrators do not always do a great job.  I am reading an ancient Irish text this semester that has been translated into English and the RFBD narrator keeps tripping up on the Gaelic names.  *smile* I have gotten use to reading with JAWS however.  My emphasis is in creative nonfiction and many of these books are not currently available in accessible audio formats. I am not sure of the legality, but aren't schools now required to find material in proper formats as well as giving them to students in proper amounts of time?  It seems like a school should have to have some form of scanning for students who require electronic copies.  What do they do when books are not currently in an accessible format?  So you can't buy the book and have the DSO scan it?  I would look into that. Does your area have a good agency for the blind?  Perhaps they can look into this. Bridgit Message: 5 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Brigitte, That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is what upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, to scan books for students! Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for students as long as they purchased a book. Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a salesman that way. Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter.  Not so at Nova though. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:26:42 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > No they do not scan books which frustrates me and other students! > The other book I need as I said in the prior posts you got to unzip the > stupid file from the internet and I did not do it right and now need another > link to try downloading again. > In my past schools yes they scanned matterial and I'd get it by the chapter > via email or they got CDs of ebooks from the publisher. > > I'll use readers; the dss is not helpful. > I'll be lucky if I can get another link to download my tech editing book. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 3:00 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > Ashley, > > Since I am a creative writing major, many of my textbooks are literature > books so I like to use BARD, NLS or RFBD so I can enjoy the reading.  I > mark any places so I can refer to the electronic copy which has page > numbers.  RFBD is not my favorite, though, because the narrators do not > always do a great job.  I am reading an ancient Irish text this semester > that has been translated into English and the RFBD narrator keeps > tripping up on the Gaelic names.  *smile* > > I have gotten use to reading with JAWS however.  My emphasis is in > creative nonfiction and many of these books are not currently available > in accessible audio formats. > > I am not sure of the legality, but aren't schools now required to find > material in proper formats as well as giving them to students in proper > amounts of time?  It seems like a school should have to have some form > of scanning for students who require electronic copies.  What do they do > when books are not currently in an accessible format?  So you can't buy > the book and have the DSO scan it?  I would look into that. > > Does your area have a good agency for the blind?  Perhaps they can look > into this. > > Bridgit > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:45:11 -0500 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > Message-ID: <52EF84397E574E82BD2E0FC00B69079F at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Brigitte, > That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That is > what > upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have the > ability > to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that they don't have > the > software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, I think that's the name, > to > scan books for students! > Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that allows > > universities/colleges to share scanned books! > I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest > four > year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for > students as long as they purchased a book. > Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the > live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare > ocassions > because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for english or > history classes that require readings like that NLS has come in handy. > For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death of a > salesman that way. > > Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice for > DSOs > to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to the student via > email. > That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter.  Not so > at > Nova though. > > Ashley > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 14:29:04 -0600 From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Subject: [nabs-l] A national standard, obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joshua, Many departments for the blind are only required to purchase a note taker or a computer.  I trained in Iowa and they were going to purchase me both a PAC Mate and laptop with JAWS, but I moved to Nebraska before I started school again and here, they would only purchase me one or the other. A lot of this depends on funding and placement of funding.  Directors need to actively focus on gaining funding for necessary programs and services as well as working to properly distributed that funding where it will benefit clients the most. If in this situation, I would advise students choose a laptop, or netbook (which is what I use) so you have the ability to take notes as well as complete assignments.  It does make using Braille a problem, but some universities will supply Braille material if requested.  My DSO outsources, but they can get my material in Braille. Also, I recommend purchasing your own technology if possible.  I know much of it is expensive, but often necessary.  Since going back to university, I have had to buy my own Victor Stream and I recently bought my Netbook for the convenience factor due to its size.  If possible, do what you can to save up so you can buy any equipment you feel is necessary.  Remember, not everything will be cheap in life and we will not always be clients of institutions that will purchase technology and material for us. I know what it is like to be a struggling college student so please do not take my comments as any criticism, but just as advice.  I am a non-traditional student now, but I have been there-- hell, I'm still there!  LOL Bridgit Message: 14 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:21:45 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: "\\National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers.  I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display.  In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 10:20:10 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID: <26C533718DE6492E8601C7E3BDB9D3EC at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";     reply-type=original Hi joshua, That's bad; how do they expect you to write notes for your own study and in class?  Get a notetaker like a braille note and if your counselor says no, go above her. A computer is not portable unless you get a laptop, but I'd recommend a notetaker anyway for its portability and battery life. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 9:21 AM To: \National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic text All they have done is get a computer and the Jaws software. That's only for me to use at home. It won't help me take notes in class. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > If the division of services for the blind is not even getting a > notetaker for you, what are they planning on helping with? This must > be frustrating... > > IC > On Feb 5, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> Ashley, I can't get the Division of Services for the Blind of >> Arkansas to pay for a note taker. Do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? I'm using readers and audiobooks, as well. I hate >> doing it that way. I'm also an evangelist, which makes it extra hard. >> I need the Bible in Braille. I have it in book form, but that's too >> many volumes. I need a Pac Mate so I can download it from Bookshare. >> Arkansas doesn't, (to my knowledge,) have a NLS library. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/5/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or >>> you can get braille >>> books from your NLS regional library. >>> I'd encourage you to read and keep up your braille skills; no braile >>> since >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful especially >>> for >>> english classes where you need to read more carefully for analysis and >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille >>> for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books >>> from publishers; its just that nova doesn't because they have not bought >>> those resources.  Heck they do not even have an updated jaws.  Its >>> rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! >>>>> I think its called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest >>>>> four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has >>>>> come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. >>>>> That is how it was at Marymount.  They scanned by the chapter. Not so >>>>> at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself >>>>> as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents that are long, >>>>> I >>>>> request they be broken up by chapter, or at least in smaller sections. >>>>> I have said I prefer Word documents, and they do what they can, but of >>>>> course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they >>>>> use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive where I can download >>>>> the >>>>> material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now >>>>> that I am use to it, it is actually nice because, like other >>>>> electronic >>>>> versions, I can read line by line, para by para, spell words and other >>>>> features similar to how we use computers.  I download Book Share files >>>>> on my own at home.  Funny story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was >>>>> a >>>>> software you downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a >>>>> membership, and two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille >>>>> display.  In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I >>>>> had to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:19:22 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic     text Message-ID: <2F10387A-B15D-4F10-B7F0-C99DA3F1F7DB at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Aren't they required to do that by law though? On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:33 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm attending Phillips Community College in DeWitt, Arkansas. The > Department of Services for the Blind won't pay to get me a Pac Mate. > I've gone down that road. They're immovable. I'm tired of them. When > they do decide to help me, they're too slow about getting it done. The > DSB should stand for, "dumb scam for the blind." Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/6/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> Are you going to college in your home state? Does your home state >> have a department of services for the blind? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 8:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >> text >> >> >>> Joshua, >>> You can obtain braille books through web braille sponsored by NLS >>> and read >>> >>> that way if you have a braille display on a notetaker or you can get >>> braille books from your NLS regional library. I'd encourage you to >>> read and keep up your braille skills; no braile since >>> >>> convention is a long time! >>> I also agree that braille texts in college would be wonderful >>> especially for english classes where you need to read more carefully >>> for analysis and >>> >>> getting quotes. >>> But braille is seldom available but some universities will give you >>> braille for math and science if you really push for it. >>> >>> Nicole, I also agree we need a national standard as to what DRCs are >>> supposed to provide. Again, I believe most universities/colleges do >>> scan books or obtain books from publishers; its just that nova >>> doesn't because they have not bought those resources.  Heck they do >>> not even have an updated jaws.  Its rediculous services are lacking. >>> I'm using readers since I can't get books in accessible format. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A National Standard Re: Obtaining electronic >>> text >>> >>> You are all talking about scanning books. I wish we could go back to >>> Braille. The sad thing is, that I haven't read any Braille since the >>> NFB convention. They don't offer college textbooks in Braille in >>> Arkansas. This drives me mad! If our textbooks were available on >>> Bookshare, I'd get them. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/5/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> And it is things like this that are the reason that I think that >>>> there should be some kind of national standard or at least >>>> guidelines as to what DRC's should provide. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:45 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>> >>>> >>>>> Brigitte, >>>>> That is great the DSO helps you and scans chapters as needed. That >>>>> is what >>>>> >>>>> upsets me too. The largest community college in VA does not have >>>>> the ability to scan books; or that's what I'm told!  They say that >>>>> they don't have the software such as Abby fine reader or Omni pro, >>>>> I think that's the >>>>> >>>>> name, to scan books for students! >>>>> Its so rediculous.  Oh they also do not belong to a database that >>>>> allows universities/colleges to share scanned books! I think its >>>>> called Access text. George Mason university, the nearest four >>>>> year college, belongs and does what your school does, scans books for >>>>> students as long as they purchased a book. >>>>> Of  course I use RFB and like you prefer the >>>>> live voice too over speech.  I also have used NLS and BARd on rare >>>>> ocassions because they have novels, not textbooks; but sometimes for >>>>> english or history classes that require readings like that NLS has come >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> handy. >>>>> For instance I read the Prince, The Cruicible, and part of Death >>>>> of a salesman that way. >>>>> >>>>> Glad to know about your college; sounds like its standard practice >>>>> for DSOs to scan books and either put them on CD or send them to >>>>> the student via email. That is how it was at Marymount.  They >>>>> scanned by the chapter.  Not so at >>>>> Nova though. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 6:23 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text >>>>> >>>>> I know each Disability Office is different, but I try to involve >>>>> myself as much as possible in the process.  With PDF documents >>>>> that are long, I request they be broken up by chapter, or at least >>>>> in smaller sections. I have said I prefer Word documents, and they >>>>> do what they can, but of course I can not get everything in Word. >>>>> >>>>> We also look for text available in all formats like RFBD, Book >>>>> Share and we contact the publishers directly sometimes.  A lot of >>>>> times, I purchase books and the DSO scans them.  Usually they send >>>>> them by the chapter.  I either receive emails with attachments for >>>>> material, or they use a feature on Blackboard called the X drive >>>>> where I can download the material. >>>>> >>>>> I do use NLS and BARD at times, but usually in conjunction with >>>>> electronic copies since page numbers are not listed for NLS books. >>>>> It is nice to have a live voice narrating over an electronic one, >>>>> though I have grown use to JAWS's drone! >>>>> >>>>> Book Share was an adjustment for me because I use the text files >>>>> on my Victor Stream because I have a nerve condition and Braille >>>>> is not always the most efficient method.  The text files sound >>>>> funny at times, but now that I am use to it, it is actually nice >>>>> because, like other electronic versions, I can read line by line, >>>>> para by para, spell words and other features similar to how we use >>>>> computers.  I download Book Share files on my own at home.  Funny >>>>> story though.  My DSO thought Book Share was a software you >>>>> downloaded, they didn't realize, one, you needed a membership, and >>>>> two, it required a device like a Victor and/or Braille display.  >>>>> In fact, they thought the software was the Victor Stream.  I had >>>>> to explain this to them. >>>>> >>>>> Again, each DSO has their format for gathering and distributing >>>>> material, but be aware of how other institutions do things so you >>>>> can make suggestions, and do not hesitate to make request; the >>>>> worse they can do is say no.  Also, try to be knowledgeable of >>>>> different options so you can be helpful with methods that may be >>>>> unfamiliar to your DSO, or at least know someone who can provide >>>>> this information. >>>>> >>>>> Bridgit >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:06:08 -0500 >>>>> From: "Marsha Drenth" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Wow that seems very complicated. My college has me sign a form, >>>>> they request the book, and then it comes from the publisher on a >>>>> CD as a PDF file. Last semester that was not sucha good thing, as >>>>> the PDF was huge and very hard to handle. I converted it to a Text >>>>> file and then it was all good. I got another book this way again >>>>> this semester. Haven't had to do much with it so I don't know what >>>>> it is like. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry your college way is so complicated. >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 7 ************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:33:05 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] for Joshua and others with similar experiences Message-ID: <858E6D33-3664-4289-A621-F52C0E8C13FE at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Joshua: I forgot what its called, but there's a program that does an annual selection of applicants for devices like the Packmate that covers up to half the cost of your technology. I don't know the link, but Google is your friend. Jorge On Feb 6, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > We had trouble in Pine Bluff. My counselor retired, and they took > forever to train my current counselor. The problem was, that the Pine > Bluff office was willing to help me, but the main one in Little Rock > wouldn't cooperate. The guy over the Little Rock one said that I > didn't need a Pac Mate, he only authorized them to provide the > computer and Jaws. I need a Pac Mate to download my textbooks, and to > take notes in class. I've tried to tell them this, but I'm having no > success. I'm tired of having work-studies reading things to me. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/6/11, Annemarie Cooke wrote: >> >> Hi Joshua,Annemarie Cooke here. First, if your VR counselor won't provide >> equipment you feel you need, you should speak to the supervisor of that >> counselor. And if that doesn't work, your blindness agency, by law, has a >> Client Assistance Program (CAP) which helps consumers resolve issues with >> the agency). Have you gone beyond a "no" from your counselor? Now is your >> opportunity to make a convincing case as to why you need a Pacmate or >> similar braille note taking device. >> >> List, please know that the Association on Higher Ed and Disability (AHEAD) >> runs a multiday annual workshop on creating alternative text materials for >> DSOs. They acknowledge individual students have individual needs and >> preferences when it comes to educational materials (www.AHEAD.org) >> >> And finally, I went to: nls.loc.gov and found info on the NLS library in AR: >> Address list for Arkansas >> >> >> Arkansas >> Regional Library >> Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped >> 900 West Capitol Avenue, Suite 100 >> Little Rock, AR 72201-3108 >> >> Librarian: John D Hall >> Library Code: AR1A >> Telephone: (501) 682-1155 >> Toll-free (In-state): (866) 660-0885 >> TDD: (501) 682-1002 >> FAX: (501) 682-1529 >> E-mail: nlsbooks at Library.Arkansas.gov or jd at Library.Arkansas.gov >> Web site: >> http://www.library.arkansas.gov/libraryForTheBlind/Pages/default.aspx >> >> Hours of Operation: 8:00-5:00 M-F >> >> Serves: Arkansas >> >> Subregional Library >> Library for the Blind and Handicapped, Southwest >> Magnolia, AR 71754 >> >> Library Code: AR1E >> >> >> >>                         >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:20:19 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8" Hi all, As I said before I am used to windows xp.  Going to windows 7 and its layout is worse than the microsoft ribbons.  I find jaws gets stuck in the ribbons sometimes and you can?t go backward to the last option. The layout is weird.  How do you best navigate it?  For instance in the documents, there are two lists where as before it was one list and you could arrow up and down.  How do you get to the other part of the screen?  Jaws keeps saying tree view.  When I enter on the folder, it opens the folder, but all options/files are displayed in the other part of the screen.  Its confusing. Is tab the best option? I pressed right arrow to open the ?tree view? which is the way things opened before.  I  still did not see the options for that folder.  When you down arrow through the list, jaws says ?level 2 something? and Level 3 something? etc. Also after creating a subfolder in documents, how do you save to it?  I went to save in the file, shift tabbed back to the name of the folder, and pressed enter.  Enter is equivalent to clicking it.  This doesn?t work.  A family member told me the folder name was not highlighted so that is why it didn?t work.  You have to highlight it for it to recognize the folder. Thing is you don?t know if its highlighted.  In past microsoft versions if you were on a folder, it was highlighted.  You just listened to jaws to tell you where you were.  I could down arrow then up arrow to highlight it I suppose. I found the last windows easier. Ashley ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 16:44:17 -0700 From: "becky sabo" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone, I have a windows seven desktop that I just bought.  I am still getting around in it too.  So far it seems ok. Becky sabo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 4:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation Hi all, As I said before I am used to windows xp.  Going to windows 7 and its layout is worse than the microsoft ribbons.  I find jaws gets stuck in the ribbons sometimes and you can't go backward to the last option. The layout is weird.  How do you best navigate it?  For instance in the documents, there are two lists where as before it was one list and you could arrow up and down.  How do you get to the other part of the screen?  Jaws keeps saying tree view.  When I enter on the folder, it opens the folder, but all options/files are displayed in the other part of the screen.  Its confusing. Is tab the best option? I pressed right arrow to open the "tree view" which is the way things opened before.  I  still did not see the options for that folder.  When you down arrow through the list, jaws says "level 2 something" and Level 3 something" etc. Also after creating a subfolder in documents, how do you save to it?  I went to save in the file, shift tabbed back to the name of the folder, and pressed enter.  Enter is equivalent to clicking it.  This doesn't work.  A family member told me the folder name was not highlighted so that is why it didn't work.  You have to highlight it for it to recognize the folder. Thing is you don't know if its highlighted.  In past microsoft versions if you were on a folder, it was highlighted.  You just listened to jaws to tell you where you were.  I could down arrow then up arrow to highlight it I suppose. I found the last windows easier. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c om ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:53:37 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: [nabs-l] creating folders Message-ID: <2C51FA5D29284B39A32258528F91261A at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8" Hi all, What is a good way to create a new folder?  I?d like it to be in the documents area. What order are folders read in? Ashley ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 19:02:56 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'Discussion list for NABS,    National Alliance of Blind Students.'"     ,     "'National Association of Blind Students mailing     list'" Subject: [nabs-l] Transferring Audio Books on iTunes Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" Hello, I used MP3 to iPod Audio Book Converter to turn a bunch of MP3 tracks into one M4B file.  Then, I opened iTunes, went to File, and added that file to my Library.  On my PC, it's showing up just fine under Books, but it's not synchronizing with my iPod.  iTunes is the devil.  I'm going to listen to that FS Cast on iTunes and JAWS 12, but if anyone has any ideas on why my audio book is not transferring over to the device, I sure would be appreciative.  Also, any alternatives to iTunes that work well with JAWS would be great.  Other than providing a quicker way to downloading and installing apps, I think it's a headache! Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 00:08:06 +0000 From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com To: jsorozco at gmail.com,    "National Association of Blind Students     mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Transferring Audio Books on iTunes Message-ID:     <710130897-1297037287-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1315790598- at bda2409.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>     Content-Type: text/plain I am not sure how to explain it effectively using a screen reader but you have to make sure the sync audiobooks tab is checked for syncing all audiobooks. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Joe Orozco" Sender: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 19:02:56 To: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Reply-To: jsorozco at gmail.com,     National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: [nabs-l] Transferring Audio Books on iTunes Hello, I used MP3 to iPod Audio Book Converter to turn a bunch of MP3 tracks into one M4B file.  Then, I opened iTunes, went to File, and added that file to my Library.  On my PC, it's showing up just fine under Books, but it's not synchronizing with my iPod.  iTunes is the devil.  I'm going to listen to that FS Cast on iTunes and JAWS 12, but if anyone has any ideas on why my audio book is not transferring over to the device, I sure would be appreciative.  Also, any alternatives to iTunes that work well with JAWS would be great.  Other than providing a quicker way to downloading and installing apps, I think it's a headache! Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:56:45 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows 7 navigation Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Ashley, I don't know anything about the Windows 7. I use it, but I don't have any of the problems you've had. I have noticed though, on some Websites that enter alone won't let you get a link to come up. I have to hit shift and enter together for the link to come up. I don't know if that's how you'd do it in Windows 7, but some Websites are like that. Blessings, Joshua On 2/6/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > As I said before I am used to windows xp.  Going to windows 7 and its layout > is worse than the microsoft ribbons.  I find jaws gets stuck in the ribbons > sometimes and you can?t go backward to the last option. > > The layout is weird.  How do you best navigate it?  For instance in the > documents, there are two lists where as before it was one list and you could > arrow up and down.  How do you get to the other part of the screen?  Jaws > keeps saying tree view.  When I enter on the folder, it opens the folder, > but all options/files are displayed in the other part of the screen.  Its > confusing. > Is tab the best option? I pressed right arrow to open the ?tree view? which > is the way things opened before.  I  still did not see the options for that > folder.  When you down arrow through the list, jaws says ?level 2 something? > and Level 3 something? etc. > > Also after creating a subfolder in documents, how do you save to it?  I went > to save in the file, shift tabbed back to the name of the folder, and > pressed enter.  Enter is equivalent to clicking it.  This doesn?t work.  A > family member told me the folder name was not highlighted so that is why it > didn?t work. > You have to highlight it for it to recognize the folder. Thing is you don?t > know if its highlighted.  In past microsoft versions if you were on a > folder, it was highlighted.  You just listened to jaws to tell you where you > were.  I could down arrow then up arrow to highlight it I suppose. > I found the last windows easier. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 20:58:55 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'Discussion list for NABS,    National Alliance of Blind Students.'"     ,     "'National Association of Blind Students mailing     list'" Subject: [nabs-l] Never Mind on Audio Book Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii" I figured it out.  If you're using JAWS: 1. Use F6 to go to Sources.  Arrow down to your device. 2. Tab until you get to a series of check boxes.  Tick the Books box. 3. Tab again until you get to Sync Books.  From this point forward you'll see options to sync all books or just certain books.  Mine is now apparently working. Anyway, I Googled up and down, but it's a little harder to find screen reader instructions.  Ultimately I just played around with the darn thing. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 20:10:26 -0600 From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] creating folders Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";     reply-type=original Hi there.  Within the documents folder press the alt key and arrow to the new sub menu.  Arrow to the right and press the enter key.  You may need to press control A and press delete or the folder will be called new folder. Give the folder a name and then press enter.  The folders will be journaled in alphabetical order.  I hope this was helpful.  Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:53 PM Subject: [nabs-l] creating folders > Hi all, > What is a good way to create a new folder?  I?d like it to be in the > documents area. > What order are folders read in? > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/eventhorizon315%40frontier.com > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 From: Daniel Romero To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a highschool program in NJ called LEAD. I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing how involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it would be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the NABS meeting, I represented New Jersey. So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, you know where to contact me. Take care guys! -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:30:09 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Welcome, Daniel. I'm Joshua Lester. I'm from Arkansas. I'm a college student. I joined the NFB last year. I hope you have a great time on this list. I'm a musician, as well. You need to subscribe to the music talk list. Just send your subscription request to musictlk-request at nfbnet.org. Write "subscribe," in the subject line. Send your posts to musictlk at nfbnet.org. You're good to go on that list now. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, Daniel Romero wrote: > Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and > singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New Jersey > Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a highschool > program in NJ called LEAD. > I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing how > involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it would > be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students > around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the NABS > meeting, I represented New Jersey. > So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, you > know where to contact me. Take care guys! > > > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:34:26 -0500 From: Daniel Romero To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID:     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey josh. Thank you for that information! Greatly appreciated! I'm going to subscribe now! On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > Welcome, Daniel. I'm Joshua Lester. I'm from Arkansas. I'm a college > student. I joined the NFB last year. I hope you have a great time on > this list. I'm a musician, as well. You need to subscribe to the music > talk list. Just send your subscription request to > musictlk-request at nfbnet.org. Write "subscribe," in the subject line. > Send your posts to musictlk at nfbnet.org. You're good to go on that list > now. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, Daniel Romero wrote: >> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New Jersey >> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a highschool >> program in NJ called LEAD. >> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing how >> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it would >> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the NABS >> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, you >> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 8 ************************************* From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 18:22:06 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 11:22:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Romero Dear NABS Listserv: My name is Cory, as you can tell, and I am from Missouri. I just learned last week that I've been excepted to a college located here in Missouri, so I'm pretty excited and nervous about that at the same time! This morning, I scheduled a college visit for the end of March. I'm really interested in Psychology; however, the field that I intend to major in is Advocacy for the disabled. If you wish to contact me, you may do so via the following methods: E-mail: cjmc404 at hotmail.com Facebook: cjmc404 at hotmail.com MSN/Windows Live Messenger: cjmc404 at hotmail.com Skype: radiolover1 Thanks, and I hope to get to know and learn from many of you! Cory McMahon From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 18:50:09 2011 From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 13:50:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Member: Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am Albert Korey. What school will you be attending? Congratulations! I am from Northern Virginia. I hopefully will be hearing from Virginia Industries for the blind. If I get this job, I will start 90 day training to use the scanning software. I will train to be the cashier in the office supply store. I am waiting to hear back hopefully this week. Albert On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:32 PM, cory McMahon wrote: > Dear NABS Listserv: > > My name is Cory, as you can tell, and I am from Missouri. I just learned > last week that I've been excepted to a college located here in Missouri, so > I'm pretty excited and nervous about that at the same time! This morning, I > scheduled a college visit for the end of March. > > I'm really interested in Psychology; however, the field that I intend to > major in is Advocacy for the disabled. > > If you wish to contact me, you may do so via the following methods: > > E-mail: cjmc404 at hotmail.com > > Facebook: cjmc404 at hotmail.com > > MSN/Windows Live Messenger: cjmc404 at hotmail.com > > Skype: radiolover1 > > Thanks, and I hope to get to know and learn from many of you! > > Cory McMahon > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albert.k.yoo%40gmail.com > From cjmc404 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 18:53:42 2011 From: cjmc404 at hotmail.com (cory McMahon) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:53:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New Member: Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Albert and all, I will be attending Missouri State University in Springfield, Mo. Cory McMahon -------------------------------------------------- From: "Albert Yoo" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:50 PM To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Member: Introduction > I am Albert Korey. What school will you be attending? Congratulations! I > am > from Northern Virginia. I hopefully will be hearing from Virginia > Industries > for the blind. If I get this job, I will start 90 day training to use the > scanning software. I will train to be the cashier in the office supply > store. I am waiting to hear back hopefully this week. Albert > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:32 PM, cory McMahon wrote: > >> Dear NABS Listserv: >> >> My name is Cory, as you can tell, and I am from Missouri. I just learned >> last week that I've been excepted to a college located here in Missouri, >> so >> I'm pretty excited and nervous about that at the same time! This morning, >> I >> scheduled a college visit for the end of March. >> >> I'm really interested in Psychology; however, the field that I intend to >> major in is Advocacy for the disabled. >> >> If you wish to contact me, you may do so via the following methods: >> >> E-mail: cjmc404 at hotmail.com >> >> Facebook: cjmc404 at hotmail.com >> >> MSN/Windows Live Messenger: cjmc404 at hotmail.com >> >> Skype: radiolover1 >> >> Thanks, and I hope to get to know and learn from many of you! >> >> Cory McMahon >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albert.k.yoo%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cjmc404%40hotmail.com > From djdan567 at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 19:25:06 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 14:25:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in touch! What did you play? On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: > Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician > bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm > going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. > Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, > but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. > My AIM iss the same as my twitter. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Daniel Romero To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and > singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New > Jersey > Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a > highschool > program in NJ called LEAD. > I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing > how > involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it > would > be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students > around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the > NABS > meeting, I represented New Jersey. > So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, > you > know where to contact me. Take care guys! > > > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 19:36:32 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 12:36:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <4d5049e9.26ead80a.122d.ffffd2ad@mx.google.com> I played piano, and still do occasionally. I now focus on doing things that impact others, music excluded. Anyway, I do a lot of things. I've done a few things that you might be interested in. If you want to get to know me, just tweet me or follow me. See you online. Bethn ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Romero wrote: Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Romero References: Message-ID: <8E9FBF9C-7B71-491D-AD31-4A571F592E2A@mac.com> Hi Daniel: Welcome to NABS. I'm also a musician and composer. Check out my site at http://www.jorgepaez.com for more info in that area. I'm an active NFB member, and have participated in some chapter meetings for the NFBNY, though school is packed now and I haven't been able to do that for a while. Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:26 AM, Daniel Romero wrote: > Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and > singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New Jersey > Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a highschool > program in NJ called LEAD. > I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing how > involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it would > be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students > around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the NABS > meeting, I represented New Jersey. > So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, you > know where to contact me. Take care guys! > > > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Feb 7 22:35:11 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:35:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac Message-ID: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> Hi guys: I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. So my question is this. Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? Thanks, Jorge From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 22:50:11 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 17:50:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> Message-ID: Email me off list and I'll help you! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 7, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi guys: > I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, > because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. > > So my question is this. > > Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From rob_blach at hotmail.com Mon Feb 7 23:02:23 2011 From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> Message-ID: ? yes it is because they don't run at the exact same time. If you want to do that there are other programs which I'm not sure if that would work with jaws. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:35 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac Hi guys: I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. So my question is this. Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? Thanks, Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com From minesm at me.com Mon Feb 7 23:48:30 2011 From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 16:48:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> Message-ID: <4DF6BBE4-FB4F-470E-BCBC-86A6D5E4FB1E@me.com> yes. On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi guys: > I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, > because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. > > So my question is this. > > Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com Maurice Mines minesm at me.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 00:02:59 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 19:02:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: <4DF6BBE4-FB4F-470E-BCBC-86A6D5E4FB1E@me.com> References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> <4DF6BBE4-FB4F-470E-BCBC-86A6D5E4FB1E@me.com> Message-ID: <5C35474B-4AF4-448C-B8F2-C517A4783148@mac.com> OK Thanks guys. Anywhere I can download a demo version of Windows? I already have license, but don't have the CD it came with. Anywhere I could download and license the download? Thanks, Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Maurice Mines wrote: > yes. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Hi guys: >> I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, >> because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. >> >> So my question is this. >> >> Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com > > Maurice Mines > minesm at me.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 01:00:15 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:00:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] technology on your campus Message-ID: Hi all, I’m meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. Jaws is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on campus. What technology does your school provide, high tech and low tech, for you? Please say what school you attend. I’m collecting this information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows what other campuses provide. Thanks. Sincerely, Ashley From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 01:00:37 2011 From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:00:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Hello, Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 8 01:11:01 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:11:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] technology on your campus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > I’m meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. Jaws > is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on campus. > What technology does your school provide, high tech and low tech, for you? > Please say what school you attend. > I’m collecting this information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows > what other campuses provide. > Thanks. > Sincerely, > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 01:13:22 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:13:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal References: Message-ID: What's your email adress? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 01:15:17 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:15:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ashley, It's not quite what you're looking for, but here's a link where you can download Jamal's PDF2TXT program. You can read more about it here: http://empowermentzone.com/OpenSourceProjects.htm Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:01 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Hello, Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 01:21:48 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:21:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi. Just use http://www.zamzar.com. Its free, and can convert PDFs to doc, docx, txt, or rtf. Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Ashley wrote: > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 01:31:01 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:31:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] technology on your campus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here in Pennsylvania, my community college provides, numerous computers, including desktops and laptops with Jaws. There are several computers with Kurzwwil and scanners, the version of Kurweild they have is the 3000 version, so its not so blind person friendly. My CC has also Braille my math text book this semester. There are several CCTV's on the campus too, but I don't use them. The college name is Bucks county community College, in Newtown PA. HTH Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] technology on your campus Hi all, I'm meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. Jaws is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on campus. What technology does your school provide, high tech and low tech, for you? Please say what school you attend. I'm collecting this information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows what other campuses provide. Thanks. Sincerely, Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5854 (20110207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5854 (20110207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 01:37:13 2011 From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:37:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Washington seminar Message-ID: Who attended Washington Seminar? Which issues were the legislative representatives will to listen too? Which do you think might get passed? Albert From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 01:46:27 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:46:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This sounds useful. Where do you get it? -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal What's your email adress? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 01:47:20 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:47:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: George, Do you know if this software works with pdf scanned images too? -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Hi. Just use http://www.zamzar.com. Its free, and can convert PDFs to doc, docx, txt, or rtf. Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Ashley wrote: > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 8 01:51:50 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:51:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> Daniel, For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in > touch! What did you play? > > On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Daniel Romero > To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >> Jersey >> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >> highschool >> program in NJ called LEAD. >> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >> how >> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >> would >> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >> NABS >> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >> you >> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 01:52:21 2011 From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:52:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good question, actually. I got the program from here: http://www.empowermentzone.com/palsetup.exe However, the page is no longer available, which is why I need to find the program again. That one seems to work best for me. I have tried some of the other suggestions but they don't seem to work all that well. I will continue to check back for anymore useful help. Thank you. Ashley On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > George, > Do you know if this software works with pdf scanned images too? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > > Hi. > Just use http://www.zamzar.com. > > Its free, > and can convert PDFs to doc, docx, txt, or rtf. > > Jorge > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Ashley wrote: > >> Hello, >> Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on >> my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I >> uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could >> find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I >> really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF >> format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me >> off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for >> any assistance in resolving this issue. >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 8 02:06:44 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:06:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal References: Message-ID: <003601cbc734$d753a0c0$9560c747@BRIAN> what is your email address Ashley? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > What's your email adress? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > > >> Hello, >> Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on >> my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I >> uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could >> find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I >> really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF >> format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me >> off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for >> any assistance in resolving this issue. >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 02:25:46 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:25:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: That may be good, I've heard of the program, though if you're looking for more intensive stuff, BLIND INC. http://www.blindinc.org will do it. Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Daniel, > > For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >> touch! What did you play? >> >> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Daniel Romero >> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>> Jersey >>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>> highschool >>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>> how >>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>> would >>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>> NABS >>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>> you >>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Feb 8 02:33:25 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 18:33:25 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Getting People's Email Addresses Message-ID: <4D6E403B82394D34A8505E7BC1EBC87D@stanford.edu> To get the email address of a particular person on this list, just go to a message that they sent and go to the from field and copy what you find there. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 03:20:20 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:20:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal In-Reply-To: <003601cbc734$d753a0c0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <003601cbc734$d753a0c0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <8B683FF3458E44EABEDAD1271BF8D8AF@OwnerPC> its in my email I think. bookwormahb at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal what is your email address Ashley? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > What's your email adress? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > > >> Hello, >> Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on >> my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I >> uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could >> find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I >> really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF >> format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me >> off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for >> any assistance in resolving this issue. >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 03:28:33 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:28:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian, Can you email me off list and discuss the carroll center? What program did you go to and what did you learn? I have thought about attending the program. Like you iI want to be eased into the skills and do not want to be in an apartment from day one. However I know at the end of your program, you are in the training apartment briefly. Sounds like you liked the training. I know its not like the nfb centers, but I think if you get the skills you need/want that is what matters. I also would like Carroll more because you do not have to use sleepshades. That is something I'm very uncomfortable with. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Daniel, For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in > touch! What did you play? > > On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Daniel Romero > To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >> Jersey >> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >> highschool >> program in NJ called LEAD. >> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >> how >> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >> would >> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >> NABS >> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >> you >> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Tue Feb 8 03:39:52 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:39:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. Dave At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 8 03:48:36 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:48:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: > Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing > apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid > professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are > volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. > > Dave > > At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 03:57:32 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:57:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <38EEAF0E5A674FA9AD7A50F18E630731@OwnerPC> Hi Joshua, No braille isn't the answer in college; college texts change every few years. A braille book is probably fifty volumes considering print text is small and the average text book is 400 pages. Who would pay for the transcription of these braille books? It would literally be thousands per book! I want electronic books in a timely manner. As to RFB they're not bad in my opinion; yes a few history books they stumbled over words but any reader would with foreign words, like names of Greek gods or kings. Most books are fine and pretty impressive; they are volunteers. Next, NLS readers are paid and professional; they may have had a background in tv or radio. That is not a fair comparison. I couldn't have done college without RFB; they are a life saver. I still turn to them for books as a life long learner. I do agree braille should be learned though as a foundation for literacy and adults losing vision should learn braille. But its not the answer for college unless you're studying math or foreign languages. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: > Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing > apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid > professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are > volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. > > Dave > > At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 8 04:04:17 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:04:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <38EEAF0E5A674FA9AD7A50F18E630731@OwnerPC> References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> <38EEAF0E5A674FA9AD7A50F18E630731@OwnerPC> Message-ID: www.bookshare.org. I can't stress this enough! The publishers should send their materials to Bookshare. I'm having trouble with computer programs to. I'll start another thread about Aplia, (the online workbook for my Business Communications class.) I'd like to be able to read it on a refreshable Braille display. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Joshua, > No braille isn't the answer in college; college texts change every few > years. A braille book is probably fifty volumes considering print text is > small and the average text book is 400 pages. > Who would pay for the transcription of these braille books? It would > literally be thousands per book! > > I want electronic books in a timely manner. As to RFB they're not bad in my > opinion; yes a few history books they stumbled over words but any reader > would with foreign words, like names of Greek gods or kings. Most books are > fine and pretty impressive; they are volunteers. > Next, NLS readers are paid and professional; they may have had a background > in tv or radio. That is not a fair comparison. > I couldn't have done college without RFB; they are a life saver. I still > turn to them for books as a life long learner. > > I do agree braille should be learned though as a foundation for literacy and > adults losing vision should learn braille. > But its not the answer for college unless you're studying math or foreign > languages. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they > do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their > best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my > Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. > I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined > the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I > always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that > most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 > years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes > at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the > Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like > Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should > come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >> >> Dave >> >> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 04:05:04 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:05:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Joshua, I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very well at all. 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to me at a consistently faster pace. That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille skills still. All the best, Kirt On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they > do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their > best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my > Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. > I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined > the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I > always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that > most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 > years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes > at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the > Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like > Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should > come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >> >> Dave >> >> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 04:13:51 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 23:13:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <0AE9FF891F1B4A4CB0C52D021B29CB81@OwnerPC> Kirt, I agree with you. Braille is declining which is bad since it’s the foundation of literacy and you learn spelling and punctuation that way. But its not always the practical and efficient way to learn and manage lots of reading, hundreds of pages. I use braille regularly; it has its place like for notetaking. But we need other forms of access too. I can't get a book in electronic format this semster and am using a reader; additionally one book was a zipped file and it looked like junk so I need to download it again once I get another link for the book. I wish the dss could just send me CDs and it would be much easier to read that way. If I get the book link again, I hope I can download it right this time. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Joshua, I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very well at all. 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to me at a consistently faster pace. That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille skills still. All the best, Kirt On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they > do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their > best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my > Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. > I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined > the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I > always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that > most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 > years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes > at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the > Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like > Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should > come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >> >> Dave >> >> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Feb 8 04:42:47 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:42:47 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? Thanks, Nicole From kaybaycar at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 04:58:32 2011 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:58:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question In-Reply-To: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Hi Nicole. Do you by chance have WMA files on your SD card? I have had that problem, and I was told that it was because I put WMA files on my card. There is a reason you are only supposed to only put MP3s on your SD cards for the Stream. I don't know exactly what it is. I'm sure some people on this list know much more than I do, but I have a start for you. I have not had the right protection problem once I stopped putting WMA files on my stream. On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write > protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it using > the computer. Any idea what is going on? > > Thanks, > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 8 05:18:59 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 23:18:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy > among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in > our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential > even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. > Consider a couple things: > 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially > for large books. > 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. > For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer > translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very > well at all. > 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through > large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster > than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit > somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to > me at a consistently faster pace. > That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic > book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I > still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not > just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I > use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge > boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely > should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical > way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. > But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille > skills still. > All the best, > Kirt > > > On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I >> always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 >> years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes >> at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the >> Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like >> Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should >> come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Feb 8 05:53:01 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:53:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <966602CFD90546A796C73169FD3965C9@stanford.edu> I don't think that that is the problem. I reformatted the card, and still no avail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie McGinnity" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Hi Nicole. > > Do you by chance have WMA files on your SD card? I have had that > problem, and I was told that it was because I put WMA files on my > card. There is a reason you are only supposed to only put MP3s on > your SD cards for the Stream. I don't know exactly what it is. I'm > sure some people on this list know much more than I do, but I have a > start for you. I have not had the right protection problem once I > stopped putting WMA files on my stream. > > On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write >> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >> using >> the computer. Any idea what is going on? >> >> Thanks, >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From kaybaycar at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 06:32:28 2011 From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 00:32:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question In-Reply-To: <966602CFD90546A796C73169FD3965C9@stanford.edu> References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> <966602CFD90546A796C73169FD3965C9@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Hmmmmm. I have no idea then. Is that the only card with the problem? Maybe it's just that card. On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I don't think that that is the problem. I reformatted the card, and still no > avail. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie McGinnity" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:58 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > > >> Hi Nicole. >> >> Do you by chance have WMA files on your SD card? I have had that >> problem, and I was told that it was because I put WMA files on my >> card. There is a reason you are only supposed to only put MP3s on >> your SD cards for the Stream. I don't know exactly what it is. I'm >> sure some people on this list know much more than I do, but I have a >> start for you. I have not had the right protection problem once I >> stopped putting WMA files on my stream. >> >> On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write >>> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >>> using >>> the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nicole >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >> Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 06:42:59 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:42:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question In-Reply-To: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <3A7F7BE1-9FA2-41DF-A7CF-2FFF3F5C323C@gmail.com> Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it started working again. On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? > > Thanks, > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Feb 8 06:48:24 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:48:24 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> <3A7F7BE1-9FA2-41DF-A7CF-2FFF3F5C323C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3C4B3FE3996A450186614E48A79F7334@stanford.edu> Not sure, but I will look it up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a > problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card > from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it > started working again. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write >> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >> using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >> >> Thanks, >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 06:51:22 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:51:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] technology on your campus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At Indiana University they have a Jaws license installed on the network on campus. That basically means that up to five people can use JAWS at the same time on any of the computers on campus. I usually try to just use one of the macs because that's what I use all the time, but the JAWS option is there and sometimes I do use it if there isn't a mac nearby. On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:11 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> I’m meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. Jaws >> is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on campus. >> What technology does your school provide, high tech and low tech, for you? >> Please say what school you attend. >> I’m collecting this information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows >> what other campuses provide. >> Thanks. >> Sincerely, >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 06:53:26 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:53:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: <5C35474B-4AF4-448C-B8F2-C517A4783148@mac.com> References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> <4DF6BBE4-FB4F-470E-BCBC-86A6D5E4FB1E@me.com> <5C35474B-4AF4-448C-B8F2-C517A4783148@mac.com> Message-ID: Just get it from Bittorrent or something. As long as you have a valid license you shouldn't have any issues activating Windows. Just make sure to download the exact version of the OS that your license is for. On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > OK Thanks guys. > > Anywhere I can download a demo version of Windows? > > I already have license, > but don't have the CD it came with. > > Anywhere I could download and license the download? > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Maurice Mines wrote: > >> yes. >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Hi guys: >>> I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, >>> because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. >>> >>> So my question is this. >>> >>> Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com >> >> Maurice Mines >> minesm at me.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Feb 8 06:55:36 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:55:36 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> <3A7F7BE1-9FA2-41DF-A7CF-2FFF3F5C323C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream to format it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a > problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card > from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it > started working again. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write >> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >> using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >> >> Thanks, >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 06:57:25 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:57:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> Message-ID: <3289D068-D704-494F-A30D-4769F4513C4A@gmail.com> Bootcamp itself is accessible, but installing Windows isn't. In other words, you will be able to create the Windows partition, but performing the actual installation is a little trickier. If you really need to do this independently, you can perform an automated installation. This is relatively complicated because you will need to create a modified copy of the Windows install CD, which will have to include a few extra files. Editing the automated install file is not all that simple on Windows 7. Just look these things up on google, and make sure you know what you're doing because if not you can end up messing up your OS X installation. On Feb 7, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi guys: > I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, > because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. > > So my question is this. > > Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 06:58:46 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:58:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question In-Reply-To: References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> <3A7F7BE1-9FA2-41DF-A7CF-2FFF3F5C323C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5CFD6FE4-9B4D-4441-B691-A37C2146C3A2@gmail.com> Hmmm... Have you tried moving the little switch on the card? I know it works on the computer, but maybe if you move it a little bit... This is kind of strange anyways! On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:55 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream to format it. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > > >> Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it started working again. >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> >>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nicole >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue Feb 8 07:15:10 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 23:15:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu><3A7F7BE1-9FA2-41DF-A7CF-2FFF3F5C323C@gmail.com> <5CFD6FE4-9B4D-4441-B691-A37C2146C3A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3E71987AAA574218BD9FE4A2FECAD434@stanford.edu> Yes, the switch was the problem. I must have bumped it somehow because I have never moved it before. I actually did not know where it was. Luckily, the resident computing consultant (or at least that is what I think that RCC stands for, there are too many acronyms) was able to help me. At Stanford, every dorm has a student or two students that help with computer stuff. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Hmmm... Have you tried moving the little switch on the card? I know it > works on the computer, but maybe if you move it a little bit... This is > kind of strange anyways! > On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:55 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream to >> format it. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question >> >> >>> Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a >>> problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card >>> from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it >>> started working again. >>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write >>>> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >>>> using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Nicole >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 11:17:31 2011 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 06:17:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question In-Reply-To: <3E71987AAA574218BD9FE4A2FECAD434@stanford.edu> References: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C@stanford.edu> <3A7F7BE1-9FA2-41DF-A7CF-2FFF3F5C323C@gmail.com> <5CFD6FE4-9B4D-4441-B691-A37C2146C3A2@gmail.com> <3E71987AAA574218BD9FE4A2FECAD434@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Hi Nicole, Did you check that the card isn't locked? There's a little button on the left side if you have the ridges facing down and away from you. That should be slid up towards you, ot down away from you. Hope that helps. M On 2/8/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Yes, the switch was the problem. I must have bumped it somehow because I > have never moved it before. I actually did not know where it was. Luckily, > the resident computing consultant (or at least that is what I think that RCC > stands for, there are too many acronyms) was able to help me. At Stanford, > every dorm has a student or two students that help with computer stuff. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ignasi Cambra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:58 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > > >> Hmmm... Have you tried moving the little switch on the card? I know it >> works on the computer, but maybe if you move it a little bit... This is >> kind of strange anyways! >> On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:55 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> >>> Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream to >>> format it. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question >>> >>> >>>> Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a >>>> problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card >>>> from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it >>>> started working again. >>>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>>> >>>>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write >>>>> >>>>> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >>>>> using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Nicole >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 8 11:27:45 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 06:27:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <000b01cbc783$370cf3b0$9560c747@BRIAN> Ashley could I have your email address? Also you can feel free and call me on my cell phone at 412-862-8644. I'd love to discuss The Carroll Center more in-depth with you. Can I have your number as well? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Brian, > Can you email me off list and discuss the carroll center? > What program did you go to and what did you learn? I have thought about > attending the program. > Like you iI want to be eased into the skills and do not want to be in an > apartment from day one. However I know at the end of your program, you > are in the training apartment briefly. > Sounds like you liked the training. I know its not like the nfb centers, > but I think if you get the skills you need/want that is what matters. > I also would like Carroll more because you do not have to use sleepshades. > That is something I'm very uncomfortable with. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Daniel, > > For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the > Blind > in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you > in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that > is > the best thing. It was what I needed! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >> touch! What did you play? >> >> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Daniel Romero >> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>> Jersey >>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>> highschool >>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>> how >>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>> would >>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>> NABS >>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>> you >>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From djdan567 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 13:29:09 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:29:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing about the center. On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Daniel, > > For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind > in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you > in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is > the best thing. It was what I needed! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >> touch! What did you play? >> >> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Daniel Romero >> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>> Jersey >>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>> highschool >>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>> how >>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>> would >>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>> NABS >>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>> you >>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 8 14:04:31 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 09:04:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >> Blind >> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >> you >> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >> is >> the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey >>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 14:37:33 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:37:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com><001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC> Brian, It’s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to experience independent living from day one Many people like it and experimenting. I agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn the skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment. Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >> Blind >> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >> you >> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >> is >> the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey >>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 14:48:06 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:48:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com><001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN><000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D4464B11E3846A69E3C036487D8185E@AnjelinaPC> The advantage to a more time intensive training program is you are immersed in the skills on a regular basis. The skills become habits (having to cook, clean, travel to and from the center, etc.)which are more likely to last. This approach isn't for everyone, however, it is an effective method. More time is spent at the center, but it's more cost effective for voc rehab in the long run. -----Original Message----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Brian, It’s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to experience independent living from day one Many people like it and experimenting. I agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn the skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment. Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >> Blind >> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >> you >> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >> is >> the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey >>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 8 14:55:26 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 09:55:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com><001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <001801cbc7a0$3b0020b0$9560c747@BRIAN> Are you still interested in talking to me about The Carroll Center? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Brian, > It’s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to > experience independent living from day one Many people like it and > experimenting. I agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us > want to learn the skills like cooking/shopping before entering an > apartment. > > Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not > the > way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the > Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >> about the center. >> >> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Daniel, >>> >>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>> Blind >>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>> you >>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>> is >>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>> touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>> Jersey >>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>> highschool >>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>> how >>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>> would >>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>> NABS >>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>> you >>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 8 14:57:29 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 09:57:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com><001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN><000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC> <4D4464B11E3846A69E3C036487D8185E@AnjelinaPC> Message-ID: <001c01cbc7a0$84577510$9560c747@BRIAN> How much cheaper would a CCB training Center be for nine months than a 16 week traditional center like Carroll Center? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > The advantage to a more time intensive training program is you are > immersed in the skills on a regular basis. The skills become habits > (having to cook, clean, travel to and from the center, etc.)which are more > likely to last. This approach isn't for everyone, however, it is an > effective method. More time is spent at the center, but it's more cost > effective for voc rehab in the long run. > -----Original Message----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Brian, > It’s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to > experience > independent living from day one Many people like it and experimenting. I > agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn the > skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment. > > Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not > the > way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the > Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >> about the center. >> >> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Daniel, >>> >>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>> Blind >>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>> you >>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>> is >>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>> touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>> Jersey >>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>> highschool >>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>> how >>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>> would >>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>> NABS >>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>> you >>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 15:31:42 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:31:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <001801cbc7a0$3b0020b0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com><001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN><000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN><1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC> <001801cbc7a0$3b0020b0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <6A8F8C56AD784CBF80077F614DE8CE12@OwnerPC> Hi Brian, Yes we can chat sometime; I'm in school part time for continuing education. But I can find time and I tried to find work after graduating from college but didn't find any openings; all jobs seem to be in the IT or accounting field. I am thinking of a training center out of state since the va rehab center didn't meet my needs. Feel free to write me off list at bookwormahb at earthlink.net. Of particular interest is the personal management class to learn cooking? How does Ellie teach? How was O&M? I know Ed and Heather still teach there; I know some instructors because I attended a summer program years ago. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:55 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Are you still interested in talking to me about The Carroll Center? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Brian, > It’s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to > experience independent living from day one Many people like it and > experimenting. I agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us > want to learn the skills like cooking/shopping before entering an > apartment. > > Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not > the > way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the > Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >> about the center. >> >> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Daniel, >>> >>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>> Blind >>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>> you >>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>> is >>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>> touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>> Jersey >>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>> highschool >>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>> how >>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>> would >>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>> NABS >>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>> you >>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 15:42:49 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:42:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <6A8F8C56AD784CBF80077F614DE8CE12@OwnerPC> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC> <001801cbc7a0$3b0020b0$9560c747@BRIAN> <6A8F8C56AD784CBF80077F614DE8CE12@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I'm a student at CCB, and I've heard many good things about BLIND Inc. I have a friend who graduated from there as well as several friends from LCB. No hard feelings, but CCB's the best. There's been international contingents there such as my current significant other, who came from Somalia, but his famikly is based in Denver now. Then there's a good friend of ours from Saudi Arabia, who is really cool and studies in Oregon. Beth On 2/8/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Brian, > Yes we can chat sometime; I'm in school part time for continuing education. > But I can find time and I tried to find work after graduating from college > but didn't find any openings; all jobs seem to be in the IT or accounting > field. > I am thinking of a training center out of state since the va rehab center > didn't meet my needs. > > Feel free to write me off list at bookwormahb at earthlink.net. > Of particular interest is the personal management class to learn cooking? > How does Ellie teach? How was O&M? I know Ed and Heather still teach there; > I know some instructors because I attended a summer program years ago. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:55 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Are you still interested in talking to me about The Carroll Center? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Brian, >> It’s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to >> experience independent living from day one Many people like it and >> experimenting. I agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us >> want to learn the skills like cooking/shopping before entering an >> apartment. >> >> Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian Hatgelakas >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not >> the >> way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the >> Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >>> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >>> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >>> about the center. >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> Daniel, >>>> >>>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>>> Blind >>>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>>> you >>>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>>> >>>> is >>>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> >>>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>>> touch! What did you play? >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>>> Jersey >>>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>>> highschool >>>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>> how >>>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>> would >>>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>> NABS >>>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>> you >>>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> >>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From djdan567 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 15:51:44 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 10:51:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you in an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is in the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like that. I'm just stating it how it really is. On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the > way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the > Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >> about the center. >> >> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Daniel, >>> >>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>> Blind >>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>> you >>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>> is >>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>> touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>> Jersey >>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>> highschool >>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>> how >>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>> would >>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>> NABS >>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>> you >>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 8 16:15:57 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:15:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What purpose do you have going to a center like this if you can essentially get the same thing from a visiting rehab instructor in your own place! I successfully graduated from the Carroll Center and I'm a very independent person. Do you happen to know a guy by the name of Kacey Lackrets? He and I were in the same Carroll Center program. He is in college at NYU and is an NJ native as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 > week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most > people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make > their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other > indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many > success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you in > an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is in > the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment > during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're > pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think > that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is > that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of > them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 > week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in > Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like > that. I'm just stating it how it really is. > > On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not >> the >> way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the >> Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >>> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >>> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >>> about the center. >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> Daniel, >>>> >>>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>>> Blind >>>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>>> you >>>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like >>>> that >>>> is >>>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> >>>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>>> touch! What did you play? >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>>> Jersey >>>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>>> highschool >>>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>> how >>>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>> would >>>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>> NABS >>>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>> you >>>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> >>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 17:09:00 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:09:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Fwd: Looking for a study participant Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > > Title: The Digital Network for Students with Visual Impairments: How do visually impaired students approach the new trend of digital social networks by using assistive technology? > > > I am Sunggye Hong and currently work at San Francisco State University to train teachers of students with visual impairments. > > > The purpose of this study is to examine the role digital social networks play in the development of social skills of students with visual impairments and the degree to which visually impaired students are participating in such activities. > > > I am looking for a student who is blind or visually impaired and is 12 to 18 years old who would be interested in participating in a survey study. The survey will take approximately 15 to 20 minutes to complete and will focus on the use of digital social media such as online social networks, text messaging, and assistive technology when using such digital media. > > > If you know of any student who would be a good candidate for this study, please share my contact information. As soon as I receive your student's contact information, I will mail the parental consent form and minor assent form that describe the details of the study procedures. > > > If you have any questions or concerns at this point or in the future, or would like to know more about the study, please feel free to contact: > > > Sunggye Hong, Assistant Professor > > Department of Special Education, San Francisco State University > 1600 Holloway Ave. > San Francisco, CA 94132 > > Email: HYPERLINK "mailto:hong72 at sfsu.edu"hong72 at sfsu.edu > > Telephone: 415 338 3430 > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Feb 8 17:31:50 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:31:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Technology on your campus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, I attend the University of Nebraska in Omaha. The Disability Services Office here provides JAWS 9.0 on several computers on campus including one in the library, and these computers also have Zoom Text. They have the ability to scan textbooks and format them in an accessible document. They also contact publishers and RFBD to find the material I need each semester. They can provide Braille material, but they outsource for this. I do a lot of stuff on my own though. I know they provide other services but I am not sure what that all entails. The DSO will let me know if books are available through Book Share, but I have my own Book Share membership so I download copies on my own to my laptop. I also use my Netbook for classes so the only time I use a campus computer is when I take test since I usually go through the Testing Center. We also have a Network for Disability Awareness which is a division of student government, and I work in this office. We have our own computer lab with an accessible computer along with an accessible scanner/magnification product. Again, all my actual technology-- computer, note taker, book reader-- are mine. Really the only thing I rely on the DSO for is my books. I do a lot of scanning on my own too since I have the ability at home, and I am a control freak! LOL Bridgit Message: 13 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:00:15 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] technology on your campus Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi all, I?m meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. Jaws is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on campus. What technology does your school provide, high tech and low tech, for you? Please say what school you attend. I?m collecting this information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows what other campuses provide. Thanks. Sincerely, Ashley ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:00:37 -0600 From: Ashley To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:11:01 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology on your campus Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > I?m meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. > Jaws is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on > campus. What technology does your school provide, high tech and low > tech, for you? Please say what school you attend. I?m collecting this > information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows what other > campuses provide. Thanks. > Sincerely, > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:13:22 -0500 From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original What's your email adress? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande fur%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:15:17 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ashley, It's not quite what you're looking for, but here's a link where you can download Jamal's PDF2TXT program. You can read more about it here: http://empowermentzone.com/OpenSourceProjects.htm Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:01 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Hello, Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:21:48 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi. Just use http://www.zamzar.com. Its free, and can convert PDFs to doc, docx, txt, or rtf. Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Ashley wrote: > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:31:01 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology on your campus Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here in Pennsylvania, my community college provides, numerous computers, including desktops and laptops with Jaws. There are several computers with Kurzwwil and scanners, the version of Kurweild they have is the 3000 version, so its not so blind person friendly. My CC has also Braille my math text book this semester. There are several CCTV's on the campus too, but I don't use them. The college name is Bucks county community College, in Newtown PA. HTH Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] technology on your campus Hi all, I'm meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. Jaws is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on campus. What technology does your school provide, high tech and low tech, for you? Please say what school you attend. I'm collecting this information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows what other campuses provide. Thanks. Sincerely, Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40 gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5854 (20110207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5854 (20110207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:37:13 -0500 From: Albert Yoo To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Washington seminar Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Who attended Washington Seminar? Which issues were the legislative representatives will to listen too? Which do you think might get passed? Albert ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:46:27 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response This sounds useful. Where do you get it? -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal What's your email adress? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande fur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:47:20 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original George, Do you know if this software works with pdf scanned images too? -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Hi. Just use http://www.zamzar.com. Its free, and can convert PDFs to doc, docx, txt, or rtf. Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Ashley wrote: > Hello, > Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on > my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I > uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could > find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I > really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF > format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me > off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for > any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:51:50 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Daniel, For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in > touch! What did you play? > > On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going to >> graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank Goodness >> you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m Twitter name >> is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM iss the same as >> my twitter. Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Daniel Romero > To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >> highschool >> program in NJ called LEAD. >> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >> how >> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >> would >> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >> NABS >> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >> you >> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:52:21 -0600 From: Ashley To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Good question, actually. I got the program from here: http://www.empowermentzone.com/palsetup.exe However, the page is no longer available, which is why I need to find the program again. That one seems to work best for me. I have tried some of the other suggestions but they don't seem to work all that well. I will continue to check back for anymore useful help. Thank you. Ashley On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > George, > Do you know if this software works with pdf scanned images too? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:21 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > > Hi. > Just use http://www.zamzar.com. > > Its free, > and can convert PDFs to doc, docx, txt, or rtf. > > Jorge > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Ashley wrote: > >> Hello, >> Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on >> my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I >> uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could >> find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I >> really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF >> format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me >> off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for >> any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40 >> mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera200 > 5%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:06:44 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: <003601cbc734$d753a0c0$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response what is your email address Ashley? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > What's your email adress? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > > >> Hello, >> Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on >> my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I >> uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could >> find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I >> really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF >> format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me >> off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for >> any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande fur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:25:46 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII That may be good, I've heard of the program, though if you're looking for more intensive stuff, BLIND INC. http://www.blindinc.org will do it. Jorge On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:51 PM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Daniel, > > For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the > Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >> touch! What did you play? >> >> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going to >>> graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank Goodness >>> you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m Twitter >>> name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM iss the >>> same as my twitter. Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Daniel Romero >> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>> highschool >>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>> how >>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>> would >>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>> NABS >>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>> you >>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 18:33:25 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "NABS-L" Subject: [nabs-l] Getting People's Email Addresses Message-ID: <4D6E403B82394D34A8505E7BC1EBC87D at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" To get the email address of a particular person on this list, just go to a message that they sent and go to the from field and copy what you find there. ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:20:20 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal Message-ID: <8B683FF3458E44EABEDAD1271BF8D8AF at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response its in my email I think. bookwormahb at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal what is your email address Ashley? ----- Original Message ----- From: "RJ Sandefur" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > What's your email adress? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:00 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Urgently Needing Latest Version Of Text Pal > > >> Hello, >> Sorry about going a little off topic here, but I had this program on >> my computer, and was using it to convert PDF files into text ones. I >> uninstalled it because the instalation was corrupt. I thought I could >> find the program again, but apparently the page is no longer there. I >> really need this program because my professor sends his notes in PDF >> format, so if anyone has it and can help me to locate it, contact me >> off-list. I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance for >> any assistance in resolving this issue. Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksande fur%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:28:33 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Brian, Can you email me off list and discuss the carroll center? What program did you go to and what did you learn? I have thought about attending the program. Like you iI want to be eased into the skills and do not want to be in an apartment from day one. However I know at the end of your program, you are in the training apartment briefly. Sounds like you liked the training. I know its not like the nfb centers, but I think if you get the skills you need/want that is what matters. I also would like Carroll more because you do not have to use sleepshades. That is something I'm very uncomfortable with. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Daniel, For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in > touch! What did you play? > > On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going to >> graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank Goodness >> you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m Twitter name >> is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM iss the same as >> my twitter. Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Daniel Romero > To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >> highschool >> program in NJ called LEAD. >> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >> how >> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >> would >> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >> NABS >> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >> you >> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:39:52 -0600 From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. Dave At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that the >narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and Geography >books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's laughable. They >need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators weren't that >bad. Blessings, Joshua ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:48:36 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: > Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing > apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid > professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are > volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. > > Dave > > At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:57:32 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <38EEAF0E5A674FA9AD7A50F18E630731 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Joshua, No braille isn't the answer in college; college texts change every few years. A braille book is probably fifty volumes considering print text is small and the average text book is 400 pages. Who would pay for the transcription of these braille books? It would literally be thousands per book! I want electronic books in a timely manner. As to RFB they're not bad in my opinion; yes a few history books they stumbled over words but any reader would with foreign words, like names of Greek gods or kings. Most books are fine and pretty impressive; they are volunteers. Next, NLS readers are paid and professional; they may have had a background in tv or radio. That is not a fair comparison. I couldn't have done college without RFB; they are a life saver. I still turn to them for books as a life long learner. I do agree braille should be learned though as a foundation for literacy and adults losing vision should learn braille. But its not the answer for college unless you're studying math or foreign languages. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: > Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing > apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid > professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are > volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. > > Dave > > At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:04:17 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 www.bookshare.org. I can't stress this enough! The publishers should send their materials to Bookshare. I'm having trouble with computer programs to. I'll start another thread about Aplia, (the online workbook for my Business Communications class.) I'd like to be able to read it on a refreshable Braille display. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi Joshua, > No braille isn't the answer in college; college texts change every few > years. A braille book is probably fifty volumes considering print text > is small and the average text book is 400 pages. Who would pay for the > transcription of these braille books? It would literally be thousands > per book! > > I want electronic books in a timely manner. As to RFB they're not bad > in my opinion; yes a few history books they stumbled over words but > any reader would with foreign words, like names of Greek gods or > kings. Most books are fine and pretty impressive; they are > volunteers. Next, NLS readers are paid and professional; they may have > had a background in tv or radio. That is not a fair comparison. I > couldn't have done college without RFB; they are a life saver. I > still turn to them for books as a life long learner. > > I do agree braille should be learned though as a foundation for > literacy and adults losing vision should learn braille. But its not > the answer for college unless you're studying math or foreign > languages. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they > do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their > best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my > Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. > I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined > the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I > always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that > most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 > years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes > at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the > Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like > Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should > come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >> >> Dave >> >> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:05:04 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Joshua, I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very well at all. 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to me at a consistently faster pace. That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille skills still. All the best, Kirt On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they > do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their > best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my > Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. > I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined > the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I > always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that > most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 > years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes > at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the > Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like > Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should > come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >> >> Dave >> >> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 23:13:51 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <0AE9FF891F1B4A4CB0C52D021B29CB81 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Kirt, I agree with you. Braille is declining which is bad since it?s the foundation of literacy and you learn spelling and punctuation that way. But its not always the practical and efficient way to learn and manage lots of reading, hundreds of pages. I use braille regularly; it has its place like for notetaking. But we need other forms of access too. I can't get a book in electronic format this semster and am using a reader; additionally one book was a zipped file and it looked like junk so I need to download it again once I get another link for the book. I wish the dss could just send me CDs and it would be much easier to read that way. If I get the book link again, I hope I can download it right this time. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Joshua, I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very well at all. 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to me at a consistently faster pace. That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille skills still. All the best, Kirt On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they > do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their > best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my > Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. > I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined > the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I > always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that > most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 > years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes > at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the > Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like > Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should > come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >> >> Dave >> >> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 20:42:47 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "NABS-L" Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: <260764C4AB3F4610B7F7F03F4D4B523C at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? Thanks, Nicole ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:58:32 -0600 From: Julie McGinnity To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Nicole. Do you by chance have WMA files on your SD card? I have had that problem, and I was told that it was because I put WMA files on my card. There is a reason you are only supposed to only put MP3s on your SD cards for the Stream. I don't know exactly what it is. I'm sure some people on this list know much more than I do, but I have a start for you. I have not had the right protection problem once I stopped putting WMA files on my stream. On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was > write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and > from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? > > Thanks, > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gm > ail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 23:18:59 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy > among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in > our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential > even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. > Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and > inconvenient. Especially for large books. > 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. > For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer > translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very > well at all. > 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through > large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster > than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit > somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to > me at a consistently faster pace. > That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic > book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I > still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not > just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I > use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge > boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely > should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical > way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. > But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille > skills still. > All the best, > Kirt > > > On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I >> always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 >> years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes >> at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the >> Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like >> Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should >> come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 21:53:01 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: <966602CFD90546A796C73169FD3965C9 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I don't think that that is the problem. I reformatted the card, and still no avail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie McGinnity" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Hi Nicole. > > Do you by chance have WMA files on your SD card? I have had that > problem, and I was told that it was because I put WMA files on my > card. There is a reason you are only supposed to only put MP3s on > your SD cards for the Stream. I don't know exactly what it is. I'm > sure some people on this list know much more than I do, but I have a > start for you. I have not had the right protection problem once I > stopped putting WMA files on my stream. > > On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home > wrote: >> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was >> write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and >> from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >> >> Thanks, >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40g >> mail.com >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 00:32:28 -0600 From: Julie McGinnity To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hmmmmm. I have no idea then. Is that the only card with the problem? Maybe it's just that card. On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > I don't think that that is the problem. I reformatted the card, and > still no avail. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie McGinnity" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:58 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > > >> Hi Nicole. >> >> Do you by chance have WMA files on your SD card? I have had that >> problem, and I was told that it was because I put WMA files on my >> card. There is a reason you are only supposed to only put MP3s on >> your SD cards for the Stream. I don't know exactly what it is. I'm >> sure some people on this list know much more than I do, but I have a >> start for you. I have not had the right protection problem once I >> stopped putting WMA files on my stream. >> >> On 2/7/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >> wrote: >>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was >>> write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and >>> from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nicole >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmai l.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >> Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gm > ail.com > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:42:59 -0500 From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: <3A7F7BE1-9FA2-41DF-A7CF-2FFF3F5C323C at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it started working again. On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was > write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and > from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? > > Thanks, > Nicole > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:48:24 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: <3C4B3FE3996A450186614E48A79F7334 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Not sure, but I will look it up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a > problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card > from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it > started working again. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was >> write >> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >> using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >> >> Thanks, >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 43 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:51:22 -0500 From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] technology on your campus Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 At Indiana University they have a Jaws license installed on the network on campus. That basically means that up to five people can use JAWS at the same time on any of the computers on campus. I usually try to just use one of the macs because that's what I use all the time, but the JAWS option is there and sometimes I do use it if there isn't a mac nearby. On Feb 7, 2011, at 8:11 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > On 2/7/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >> Hi all, >> I?m meeting with an ADA coordinator for nova, the community college. >> Jaws is very out of date and they do not provide enough technology on >> campus. What technology does your school provide, high tech and low >> tech, for you? Please say what school you attend. I?m collecting this >> information to present to th4e coordinator so she knows what other >> campuses provide. Thanks. >> Sincerely, >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 44 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:53:26 -0500 From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just get it from Bittorrent or something. As long as you have a valid license you shouldn't have any issues activating Windows. Just make sure to download the exact version of the OS that your license is for. On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > OK Thanks guys. > > Anywhere I can download a demo version of Windows? > > I already have license, > but don't have the CD it came with. > > Anywhere I could download and license the download? > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Maurice Mines wrote: > >> yes. >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> >>> Hi guys: >>> I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, >>> because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. >>> >>> So my question is this. >>> >>> Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me. >>> com >> >> Maurice Mines >> minesm at me.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40 >> mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 45 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 22:55:36 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream to format it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a > problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card > from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it > started working again. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was >> write >> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >> using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >> >> Thanks, >> Nicole >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 46 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:57:25 -0500 From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac Message-ID: <3289D068-D704-494F-A30D-4769F4513C4A at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bootcamp itself is accessible, but installing Windows isn't. In other words, you will be able to create the Windows partition, but performing the actual installation is a little trickier. If you really need to do this independently, you can perform an automated installation. This is relatively complicated because you will need to create a modified copy of the Windows install CD, which will have to include a few extra files. Editing the automated install file is not all that simple on Windows 7. Just look these things up on google, and make sure you know what you're doing because if not you can end up messing up your OS X installation. On Feb 7, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi guys: > I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, > because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. > > So my question is this. > > Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 47 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 01:58:46 -0500 From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: <5CFD6FE4-9B4D-4441-B691-A37C2146C3A2 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hmmm... Have you tried moving the little switch on the card? I know it works on the computer, but maybe if you move it a little bit... This is kind of strange anyways! On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:55 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream to > format it. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > > >> Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had a >> problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the >> card from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, >> it started working again. On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. >> Torcolini at Home wrote: >> >>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was >>> write protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and >>> from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Nicole >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra >>> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%4 > 0gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 48 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 23:15:10 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: <3E71987AAA574218BD9FE4A2FECAD434 at stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Yes, the switch was the problem. I must have bumped it somehow because I have never moved it before. I actually did not know where it was. Luckily, the resident computing consultant (or at least that is what I think that RCC stands for, there are too many acronyms) was able to help me. At Stanford, every dorm has a student or two students that help with computer stuff. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > Hmmm... Have you tried moving the little switch on the card? I know it > works on the computer, but maybe if you move it a little bit... This is > kind of strange anyways! > On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:55 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > >> Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream >> to >> format it. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question >> >> >>> Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had >>> a >>> problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting the card >>> from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the camera, it >>> started working again. >>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was >>>> write >>>> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and from it >>>> using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Nicole >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com ------------------------------ Message: 49 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 06:17:31 -0500 From: Mary Fernandez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Nicole, Did you check that the card isn't locked? There's a little button on the left side if you have the ridges facing down and away from you. That should be slid up towards you, ot down away from you. Hope that helps. M On 2/8/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Yes, the switch was the problem. I must have bumped it somehow because > I have never moved it before. I actually did not know where it was. > Luckily, the resident computing consultant (or at least that is what I > think that RCC stands for, there are too many acronyms) was able to > help me. At Stanford, every dorm has a student or two students that > help with computer stuff. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ignasi Cambra" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:58 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question > > >> Hmmm... Have you tried moving the little switch on the card? I know >> it works on the computer, but maybe if you move it a little bit... >> This is kind of strange anyways! On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:55 AM, Nicole >> B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> >>> Nope, no cigar. I get the same message when I try to use the Stream >>> to format it. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:42 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Stream Question >>> >>> >>>> Is it possible to format the SD card from the Stream itself? We had >>>> a problem like that with my girlfriends camera, and reformatting >>>> the card from the computer didn't fix it. When we did it from the >>>> camera, it started working again. On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:42 PM, >>>> Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>>> >>>>> Has anyone had their Victor Stream tell them that the SD card was >>>>> write >>>>> >>>>> protected? Mine is doing that, but I can transfer files to and >>>>> from it using the computer. Any idea what is going on? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Nicole >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wav ecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40g mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40 >> wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40 > gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers." Charles W. Eliot ------------------------------ Message: 50 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 06:27:45 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <000b01cbc783$370cf3b0$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Ashley could I have your email address? Also you can feel free and call me on my cell phone at 412-862-8644. I'd love to discuss The Carroll Center more in-depth with you. Can I have your number as well? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Brian, > Can you email me off list and discuss the carroll center? What program > did you go to and what did you learn? I have thought about attending > the program. Like you iI want to be eased into the skills and do not > want to be in an apartment from day one. However I know at the end of > your program, you are in the training apartment briefly. > Sounds like you liked the training. I know its not like the nfb centers, > but I think if you get the skills you need/want that is what matters. > I also would like Carroll more because you do not have to use sleepshades. > That is something I'm very uncomfortable with. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:51 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Daniel, > > For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the > Blind > in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you > in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that > is > the best thing. It was what I needed! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >> touch! What did you play? >> >> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going to >>> graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank Goodness >>> you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m Twitter >>> name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM iss the >>> same as my twitter. Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Daniel Romero >> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>> highschool >>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>> how >>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>> would >>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>> NABS >>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>> you >>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 51 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:29:09 -0500 From: Daniel Romero To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing about the center. On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Daniel, > > For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the > Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't > force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into > something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >> touch! What did you play? >> >> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going to >>> graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank Goodness >>> you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m Twitter >>> name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM iss the >>> same as my twitter. Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Daniel Romero >> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>> highschool >>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>> how >>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>> would >>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>> NABS >>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>> you >>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gma > il.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 ------------------------------ Message: 52 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 09:04:31 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >> the >> Blind >> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >> you >> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >> is >> the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >>>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going >>>> to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank >>>> Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m >>>> Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM >>>> iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 53 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:37:33 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=response Brian, It?s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to experience independent living from day one Many people like it and experimenting. I agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn the skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment. Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >> the >> Blind >> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >> you >> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >> is >> the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >>>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going >>>> to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank >>>> Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m >>>> Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM >>>> iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 10 ************************************** From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Feb 8 17:35:33 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:35:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Needing Text Pal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, If all you need to do is convert PDF documents into text files, you can do that with MS Word. If the PDF's are not properly tagged and are inaccessible, have you ever tried asking your professor to create the notes in Word? Some profs. Will work with you. I have not heard of this product, I would like to know more. How is it different than converting in Word? Bridgit From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Feb 8 17:45:06 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:45:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dave, I have to disagree that RFBD narrators do okay. For four years, whenever I have to use RFBD books, the narrators have not been great. They stutter, trip up on words, mispronounce words and often, they do not have great speaking voices and some have been monotone. I had an RFBD history book and the narrator mumbled so bad, it was difficult to understand what he was saying. I ended up buying the book and scanning it. It is an useful service, but I only use it when there is no other option. I am well aware that these marrators are volunteers, but just because something is a volunteer service does not mean the quality should not be great. Not all RFBD narrators are horrible, but many are lacking in their ability to read out loud properly. Bridgit Message: 30 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:39:52 -0600 From: David Andrews To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. Dave From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 8 17:49:53 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:49:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's the point I've been trying to make. Bridget, have you subscribed to Bookshare? You can download books to your notetaker from there, if those books are available. Blessings, Joshua On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Dave, > > I have to disagree that RFBD narrators do okay. For four years, > whenever I have to use RFBD books, the narrators have not been great. > They stutter, trip up on words, mispronounce words and often, they do > not have great speaking voices and some have been monotone. > > I had an RFBD history book and the narrator mumbled so bad, it was > difficult to understand what he was saying. I ended up buying the book > and scanning it. > > It is an useful service, but I only use it when there is no other > option. > > I am well aware that these marrators are volunteers, but just because > something is a volunteer service does not mean the quality should not be > great. Not all RFBD narrators are horrible, but many are lacking in > their ability to read out loud properly. > > Bridgit > > Message: 30 > Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:39:52 -0600 > From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing > apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid > professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are > volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. > > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 8 18:02:58 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:02:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] As promised, Aplia post. Message-ID: I'm in a business communications class in college. The online workbook for this class is called Aplia. You can go to www.aplia.com, sign in via your E-mail address, and put your date of birth as your password. That is the only password these college sites accept. Once you've joined Aplia, you can read the questions, and do the assignments. This is only for those of you that are taking Business Communications classes, that use the program, this isn't for just anyone. I'm bringing this up, because the Jaws doesn't read all of the text to me, and I have to have a reader, in order to do this work. When the Jaws does read it, I can read the questions, but when I check the answers, it won't tell me if I've answered the questions or not. My instructor has E-mailed them about this problem, but they haven't responded to her. If they don't respond, I think it would be wise for the NFB to get involved. There may be more blind students using this program, and it needs to be compatible with the Jaws program. If this company doesn't do their duty, as written in the IDEA, there could be legal troubles awaiting them. I just want to know, how many of you are in Business Communications classes, or have taken them, using Aplia. Blessings, Joshua From jandart2 at aol.com Tue Feb 8 18:08:21 2011 From: jandart2 at aol.com (jandart2 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:08:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [nabs-l] iPad apps Message-ID: <8CD95D24D8408D1-1BEC-F901@webmail-m076.sysops.aol.com> Would someone share a list of ipad apps for folks with visual impairments? Thanks Jan jandart2 at aol.com From agrima at nbp.org Tue Feb 8 18:02:33 2011 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:02:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NBP is hiring! Message-ID: <00fb01cbc7ba$5ce495c0$16adc140$@org> Hi all - National Braille Press is hiring! We're looking for a Manager of Education Services. Blind and visually impaired applicants are encouraged, especially those with a good knowledge of the different braille codes and tactile graphics. Help us spread the word! Details about the position and how to apply at: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/aboutus/employment.html Thanks, Tony Grima VP/Braille Publications National Braille Press www.nbp.org From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 18:15:40 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:15:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPad apps References: <8CD95D24D8408D1-1BEC-F901@webmail-m076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <383E7B32B9BA425A98D46C849773451B@hometwxakonvzn> Don't know of any. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:08 PM Subject: [nabs-l] iPad apps > > > > Would someone share a list of ipad apps for folks with visual impairments? > Thanks > > Jan > jandart2 at aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 18:17:03 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:17:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] iPad apps In-Reply-To: <8CD95D24D8408D1-1BEC-F901@webmail-m076.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CD95D24D8408D1-1BEC-F901@webmail-m076.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <30CDCB1C4D444DCEB65F6599FFE9BD90@Rufus> I've found a pretty good list of apps at AppleVis.org. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of jandart2 at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:08 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] iPad apps Would someone share a list of ipad apps for folks with visual impairments? Thanks Jan jandart2 at aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 18:34:30 2011 From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:34:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Needing Text Pal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridgit, Actually, I was not aware word could do this. This one is a lot like note pad, and it opens up the PDF file really quickly. Unfortunately, the program does not seem to be there anymore. Ashley On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Ashley, > > If all you need to do is convert PDF documents into text files, you can > do that with MS Word. If the PDF's are not properly tagged and are > inaccessible, have you ever tried asking your professor to create the > notes in Word? Some profs. Will work with you. > > I have not heard of this product, I would like to know more. How is it > different than converting in Word? > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Feb 8 18:41:23 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:41:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear List, I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training center to attend. As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain after at least a six month stint. As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the benefits. We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove ourselves to the world. I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out what you really are able to do. Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to choosing a training center. Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I have not been back since. I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and I owe this to a positive training center. I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. Bridgit From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 19:17:17 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:17:17 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridgit and list, I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited greatly from that type of environment. I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone through any formalized training or training at a center that stressed structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as happy, just asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also say the same for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no college expirience. Will the numbers end up the same if you were to break down statistics on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are out there. I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a counter argument just for the sake of discussion. Like I say, I went through the training center environment that Bridgit speaks of, and learned a great amount, I first started the program believeing that six months would do it for me, andas I look back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would have. thoughts folks? respectfully, Darian On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers > and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for > years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling > independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the > skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. > Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a > training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain > after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep > shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is > that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you > have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried > something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this > because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind > people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the > benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may > not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I > also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those > skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. > Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of > training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, > where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on > campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out > what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend > time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, > or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we > view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we > not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We > should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to > choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that > blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I > have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not > reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they > can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other > agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, > and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many > other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own > training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves > ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, > leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to > face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. > I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or > any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a > whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I > have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). > I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and > I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As > blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds > too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 19:31:02 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:31:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridgit, This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right path to independence. Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the second reason, to me, still holds a little water. I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind what anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals who would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain economies. After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across a longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have been a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read something like the post below when I graduated from high school. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Dear List, I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training center to attend. As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain after at least a six month stint. As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the benefits. We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove ourselves to the world. I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out what you really are able to do. Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to choosing a training center. Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I have not been back since. I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and I owe this to a positive training center. I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. Bridgit _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 19:58:49 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:58:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the case. Thoughts?, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Bridgit, > > This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at a > Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us > with a slightly dissenting view. > > I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more > interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested in > being forced into what other people felt was the right path to independence. > Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first > reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the > second reason, to me, still holds a little water. > > I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for choosing > not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of > training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes > people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in > line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind what > anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little > sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB > philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, > these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants > training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals who > would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of > stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain > economies. > > After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am > positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me > who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the same > levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across a > longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across > multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I > have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe > later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a > Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is > possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll > have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even > harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and > commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have been > a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read > something like the post below when I graduated from high school. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers > and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for > years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling > independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the > skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. > Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a > training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain > after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep > shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is > that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you > have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried > something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this > because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind > people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the > benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may > not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I > also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those > skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. > Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of > training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, > where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on > campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out > what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend > time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, > or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we > view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we > not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We > should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to > choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that > blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I > have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not > reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they > can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other > agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, > and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many > other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own > training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves > ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, > leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to > face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. > I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or > any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a > whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I > have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). > I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and > I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As > blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds > too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 20:11:19 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:11:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with the posts, Bridgit and Joe. I'm a student at the CCB, and I'm really enjoying it, except for the snow. lol But other than the snow, and all the ploughing and traffic that results, I really love it. I'm going to live somewhere on my own, and sometime later, my current boyfriend, who btw is blind, could marry me! These are things I could never have dreamed of before I came to CCB. Before CCB, I had a family that absolutely would not allow me to catch the bus somewhere or go places without a driver. Well, Titusville, Florida is one of the more rural cities with a dangerous bus system to use. The paratransit sucks, but I wanted a place with more public transit, so Denver won. When I met my current boyfriend, I learned to not only do the skills, but I learned to live, laugh, love, grow. He and I bonded, and believe you me, he has seen my training progress. I love cooking in my crock pot, finding good recipes, and doing cool stuff in the oven. I wanted to make cake cookies for my friend Carrisa who's probably going to be delayed in her coming back. Poor thing. But anyhoo, CCB is the way to go for me because of the transit, the diversity of people there, and the love and support I get from the NFB of Denver. Thanks. :-d Beth Taurasi On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Bridgit, > > This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at a > Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us > with a slightly dissenting view. > > I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more > interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested in > being forced into what other people felt was the right path to independence. > Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first > reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the > second reason, to me, still holds a little water. > > I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for choosing > not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of > training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes > people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in > line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind what > anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little > sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB > philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, > these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants > training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals who > would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of > stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain > economies. > > After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am > positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me > who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the same > levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across a > longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across > multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I > have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe > later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a > Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is > possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll > have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even > harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and > commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have been > a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read > something like the post below when I graduated from high school. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers > and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for > years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling > independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the > skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. > Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a > training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain > after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep > shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is > that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you > have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried > something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this > because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind > people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the > benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may > not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I > also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those > skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. > Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of > training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, > where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on > campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out > what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend > time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, > or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we > view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we > not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We > should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to > choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that > blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I > have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not > reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they > can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other > agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, > and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many > other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own > training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves > ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, > leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to > face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. > I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or > any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a > whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I > have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). > I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and > I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As > blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds > too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 20:11:49 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:11:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F1C496D1A6B4FC69BEC2F7EF0BFD2DF@OwnerPC> Hello, That's true Darian. There are people out there who went to no formal training center or did it another way who are successful. There are other centers out there that use apartments for housing. Some people train on their own and get a teacher from the agency for the blind to come out to their home and teach them. There are itenerant rehab teachers and O&M instructors. Going the extended time to a training center for six months may not be for everyone due to leaving kids, not being able to keep their house while gone or other circumstances. Structured discovery wouldn't work for me because I don't learn by cardinal directions in travel. I cannot interpret sound cues alone without visual input and I like maps rather than just oral directions to walk a few blocks, cross x street and y street and go to some address. Traditional instructors are more concrete and may use maps to convey concepts. Now I do agree some traditional instructors especially for cane travel, don't have the highest expectations. But I hope that is changing and you can always push yourself if your instructor doesn't. People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence. I already went to our state center for a while; several months and its good for some things and bad for others. For instance all we did in cooking class was baking sweets primarily. The class I got the most from was daily living; the instructor showed things and went step by step. One size doesn't fit all. When I hear the nfb center graduates say negative things and make assumptions about other blind people like oh they lack initiative or something it sounds like those who went to centers are acting elite. That said I still need to figure out some skills. I don't know if I'll go to another center, probably carroll center, or learn on my own through friends. But I really need to learn to cook! Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Bridgit and list, I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited greatly from that type of environment. I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone through any formalized training or training at a center that stressed structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as happy, just asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also say the same for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no college expirience. Will the numbers end up the same if you were to break down statistics on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are out there. I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a counter argument just for the sake of discussion. Like I say, I went through the training center environment that Bridgit speaks of, and learned a great amount, I first started the program believeing that six months would do it for me, andas I look back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would have. thoughts folks? respectfully, Darian On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers > and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for > years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling > independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the > skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. > Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a > training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain > after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep > shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is > that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you > have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried > something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this > because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind > people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the > benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may > not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I > also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those > skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. > Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of > training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, > where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on > campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out > what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend > time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, > or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we > view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we > not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We > should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to > choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that > blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I > have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not > reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they > can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other > agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, > and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many > other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own > training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves > ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, > leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to > face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. > I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or > any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a > whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I > have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). > I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and > I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As > blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds > too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 20:14:53 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:14:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] As promised, Aplia post. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Joshua, Beth here. I am not in business communications, but you're right. If Applia doesn't get compatible, then there will be a lawsuit. Same as with Target dot com. Beth On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm in a business communications class in college. The online workbook > for this class is called Aplia. You can go to www.aplia.com, sign in > via your E-mail address, and put your date of birth as your password. > That is the only password these college sites accept. Once you've > joined Aplia, you can read the questions, and do the assignments. This > is only for those of you that are taking Business Communications > classes, that use the program, this isn't for just anyone. I'm > bringing this up, because the Jaws doesn't read all of the text to me, > and I have to have a reader, in order to do this work. When the Jaws > does read it, I can read the questions, but when I check the answers, > it won't tell me if I've answered the questions or not. My instructor > has E-mailed them about this problem, but they haven't responded to > her. If they don't respond, I think it would be wise for the NFB to > get involved. There may be more blind students using this program, and > it needs to be compatible with the Jaws program. If this company > doesn't do their duty, as written in the IDEA, there could be legal > troubles awaiting them. I just want to know, how many of you are in > Business Communications classes, or have taken them, using Aplia. > Blessings, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 20:18:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:18:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kirt, Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them although those individuals were not NFB members. The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational activities for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the case. Thoughts?, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Bridgit, > > This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at > a > Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us > with a slightly dissenting view. > > I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more > interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested > in > being forced into what other people felt was the right path to > independence. > Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first > reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the > second reason, to me, still holds a little water. > > I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for > choosing > not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of > training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes > people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in > line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind > what > anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little > sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB > philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, > these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants > training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals > who > would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of > stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in > uncertain > economies. > > After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am > positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me > who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the > same > levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across > a > longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across > multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I > have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe > later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a > Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success > is > possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll > have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even > harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and > commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have > been > a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read > something like the post below when I graduated from high school. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers > and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for > years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling > independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the > skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. > Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a > training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain > after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep > shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is > that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you > have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried > something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this > because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind > people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the > benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may > not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I > also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those > skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. > Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of > training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, > where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on > campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out > what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend > time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, > or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we > view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we > not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We > should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to > choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that > blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I > have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not > reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they > can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other > agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, > and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many > other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own > training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves > ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, > leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to > face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. > I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or > any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a > whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I > have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). > I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and > I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As > blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds > too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 20:24:34 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:24:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] applications key for Windows on a Mac Message-ID: <5BA56CBA-E666-4DFE-BA87-1BF7B1AEAEE9@mac.com> Hi all: Just wondering, when you are using Windows on a mac, I know the alt key will be the command key, start menu will be to the right of that, etc. Where will the applications key be? Will it be on the left where you find Command, option, control and function on the Mac--and does that mean Windows control will be the function key? Thanks. Jorge From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 20:28:30 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:28:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> <4DF6BBE4-FB4F-470E-BCBC-86A6D5E4FB1E@me.com> <5C35474B-4AF4-448C-B8F2-C517A4783148@mac.com> Message-ID: <71687AB0-C15D-4FAC-BD2F-B521A456C060@mac.com> Thanks IC. Just wondering, would I have to reformat my drive in order to duelboot? On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:53 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Just get it from Bittorrent or something. As long as you have a valid license you shouldn't have any issues activating Windows. Just make sure to download the exact version of the OS that your license is for. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> OK Thanks guys. >> >> Anywhere I can download a demo version of Windows? >> >> I already have license, >> but don't have the CD it came with. >> >> Anywhere I could download and license the download? >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Maurice Mines wrote: >> >>> yes. >>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys: >>>> I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, >>>> because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. >>>> >>>> So my question is this. >>>> >>>> Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com >>> >>> Maurice Mines >>> minesm at me.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 20:37:12 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:37:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Diversity? Can you please elaborate? Thanks, Jorge On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Daniel Romero wrote: > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind >> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you >> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is >> the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey >>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 20:47:02 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:47:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Joshua, Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this one hasn't had that problem. All the best, Kirt On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws > reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the > audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >> Consider a couple things: >> 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially >> for large books. >> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >> well at all. >> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >> me at a consistently faster pace. >> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >> skills still. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >>> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >>> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I >>> always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >>> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 >>> years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes >>> at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the >>> Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like >>> Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should >>> come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 8 20:55:48 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:55:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good > deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with > lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, > but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare > files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this > one hasn't had that problem. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >>> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >>> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >>> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >>> Consider a couple things: >>> 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially >>> for large books. >>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>> well at all. >>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>> skills still. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >>>> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >>>> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I >>>> always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >>>> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 >>>> years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes >>>> at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the >>>> Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like >>>> Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should >>>> come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>>>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>>>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 21:09:24 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:09:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them however I like and, by and large, they are readable. All the best, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any > classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the > Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications > textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, > these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady > reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on > that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they > don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names > of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! > They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate > their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for > audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good >> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with >> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, >> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare >> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this >> one hasn't had that problem. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >>>> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >>>> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >>>> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >>>> Consider a couple things: >>>> 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially >>>> for large books. >>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>>> well at all. >>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>>> skills still. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>>>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>>>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>>>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >>>>> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >>>>> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I >>>>> always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >>>>> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 >>>>> years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes >>>>> at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the >>>>> Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like >>>>> Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should >>>>> come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>>>>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>>>>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 21:34:10 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:34:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <1B40126B-F212-496D-A4B0-712BBEF23413@mac.com> How do they help newly blinded adults? 1. by giving them the same treatment as when they were sighted, building up confidence, and 2. by teaching them the skills, which they'll have to use every day. What I like so much about BLIND INC. was that it was that real-world test that really helped me. Not only did I learn the skills--but I put them to practice each and every day while in training. This was no theory training--but solid hands on training. Jorge On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What purpose do you have going to a center like this if you can essentially get the same thing from a visiting rehab instructor in your own place! I successfully graduated from the Carroll Center and I'm a very independent person. Do you happen to know a guy by the name of Kacey Lackrets? He and I were in the same Carroll Center program. He is in college at NYU and is an NJ native as well. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 >> week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most >> people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make >> their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other >> indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many >> success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you in >> an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is in >> the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment >> during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're >> pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think >> that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is >> that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of >> them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 >> week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in >> Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like >> that. I'm just stating it how it really is. >> >> On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the >>> way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the >>> Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>>> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>>> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >>>> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >>>> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >>>> about the center. >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> Daniel, >>>>> >>>>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>>>> Blind >>>>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>>>> you >>>>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>>>> is >>>>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>>>> touch! What did you play? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>>>> Jersey >>>>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>>>> highschool >>>>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>>> NABS >>>>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>> >>>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 8 22:20:53 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:20:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <2A83070EF5CF4B1783C8C7D0D5FB5B88@OwnerPC> Hi, That's great your DSS and most scan texts and put them in the text form of your choice. How long does that take? Do you get the chapters in time to read for homework? Is the whole book on CD once all scanned? Do you have to give them your book for scanning? If so, do they cut the binding off to scan? I wouldn't want them to tear the book apart since then it cannot be sold to the bookstore. Nova, the community college, does not have scanning ability and told me they'd have to send the book to George mason university if I wanted it scanned. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them however I like and, by and large, they are readable. All the best, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any > classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the > Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications > textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, > these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady > reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on > that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they > don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names > of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! > They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate > their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for > audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good >> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with >> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, >> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare >> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this >> one hasn't had that problem. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >>>> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >>>> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >>>> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >>>> Consider a couple things: >>>> 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially >>>> for large books. >>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>>> well at all. >>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>>> skills still. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>>>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>>>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>>>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >>>>> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >>>>> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I >>>>> always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >>>>> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 >>>>> years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes >>>>> at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the >>>>> Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like >>>>> Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should >>>>> come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>>>>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>>>narrators >>>>>>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 8 22:51:50 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:51:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] training centers Message-ID: Hello. I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do in terms of my training. Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer. But I think I need more training then jus one summer. However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me doing it again. Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year? Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month program? Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program. Also, what is, in your experience the best training center? I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them, but am open to other ideas. Thanks, Jorge From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 18:32:40 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:32:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <001c01cbc7a0$84577510$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com><001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN><000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN><1C19EB2D6C424E45BE8944CB6ED5F680@OwnerPC><4D4464B11E3846A69E3C036487D8185E@AnjelinaPC> <001c01cbc7a0$84577510$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <8528672ED6414B9FB10293FC2BF26B24@AnjelinaPC> I don't know exact figures, but I've heard the two are comparable. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction How much cheaper would a CCB training Center be for nine months than a 16 week traditional center like Carroll Center? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > The advantage to a more time intensive training program is you are > immersed in the skills on a regular basis. The skills become habits > (having to cook, clean, travel to and from the center, etc.)which are more > likely to last. This approach isn't for everyone, however, it is an > effective method. More time is spent at the center, but it's more cost > effective for voc rehab in the long run. > -----Original Message----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Brian, > It’s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to > experience > independent living from day one Many people like it and experimenting. I > agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn the > skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment. > > Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not > the > way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the > Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >> about the center. >> >> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Daniel, >>> >>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>> Blind >>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>> you >>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>> is >>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>> touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>> My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>> Jersey >>>>> Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>> highschool >>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>> how >>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>> would >>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>> NABS >>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>> you >>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 23:29:24 2011 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, Jordan wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. > Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them > although those individuals were not NFB members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If > you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or > get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational activities > for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are > encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one > bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room > mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. > Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it may > not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside > of class as to where you can go. > Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I > want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. > Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at >> a >> Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us >> with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more >> interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested >> in >> being forced into what other people felt was the right path to >> independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing >> not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of >> training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes >> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind >> what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am >> positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me >> who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the >> same >> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across >> a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel >> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training >> center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do >> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers >> and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for >> years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >> independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the >> skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. >> Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >> training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain >> after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are >> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense >> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do >> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at >> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep >> shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is >> that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you >> have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried >> something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >> because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind >> people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >> benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods >> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove >> ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may >> not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I >> also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those >> skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. >> Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >> training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, >> where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on >> campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out >> what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing >> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend >> time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, >> or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we >> view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and >> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that >> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we >> not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We >> should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to >> choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that >> blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I >> have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not >> reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they >> can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other >> agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, >> and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many >> other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own >> training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves >> ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, >> leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to >> face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. >> I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or >> any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a >> whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I >> have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). >> I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and >> I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As >> blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds >> too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 23:37:42 2011 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:37:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, On 8 February 2011 14:18, wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. > Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them > although those individuals were not NFB members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If > you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or > get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational activities > for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are > encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one > bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room > mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. > Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it may > not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside > of class as to where you can go. > Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I > want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. > Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at >> a >> Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us >> with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more >> interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested >> in >> being forced into what other people felt was the right path to >> independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing >> not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of >> training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes >> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind >> what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am >> positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me >> who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the >> same >> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across >> a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel >> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training >> center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do >> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers >> and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for >> years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >> independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the >> skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. >> Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >> training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain >> after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are >> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense >> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do >> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at >> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep >> shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is >> that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you >> have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried >> something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >> because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind >> people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >> benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods >> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove >> ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may >> not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I >> also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those >> skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. >> Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >> training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, >> where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on >> campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out >> what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing >> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend >> time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, >> or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we >> view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and >> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that >> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we >> not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We >> should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to >> choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that >> blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I >> have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not >> reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they >> can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other >> agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, >> and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many >> other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own >> training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves >> ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, >> leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to >> face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. >> I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or >> any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a >> whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I >> have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). >> I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and >> I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As >> blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds >> too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 23:31:35 2011 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:31:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Hi all, > > Here's my two cents. > I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need > a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that > trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be > graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a > teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never > REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always > practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. > > With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" > expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right > possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not > necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get > out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the > skills they have learned while they were growing up. > > I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills > to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to > learn something is to teach that something. > > I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of > your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they will > receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from > their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If you live in > Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to > be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. > > I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills > at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we > can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. > This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that > they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted > peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. > > To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. > > Your thoughts? > Respectfully, > Jordan wrote: > >> Hi Kirt, >> Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using >> apartment style living. >> Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them >> although those individuals were not NFB members. >> >> The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If >> you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or >> get some work experience on days you don't have classes. >> Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational activities >> for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are >> encouraged to go have fun in the city. >> >> Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one >> bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room >> mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. >> Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it may >> not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside >> of class as to where you can go. >> Good luck with your decission. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM >> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> >> Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, >> I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I >> want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training >> centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and >> I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any >> other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of >> independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a >> slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try >> and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned >> activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time >> and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was >> great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the >> case. >> Thoughts?, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Bridgit, >>> >>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at >>> a >>> Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us >>> with a slightly dissenting view. >>> >>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more >>> interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested >>> in >>> being forced into what other people felt was the right path to >>> independence. >>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but >>> the >>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >>> >>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >>> choosing >>> not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of >>> training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that >>> makes >>> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >>> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind >>> what >>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but >>> no, >>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >>> who >>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >>> uncertain >>> economies. >>> >>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and >>> am >>> positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me >>> who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the >>> same >>> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own >>> across a >>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. >>> Maybe >>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince >>> a >>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >>> is >>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, >>> you'll >>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >>> been >>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >>> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel >>> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training >>> center to attend. >>> >>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >>> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do >>> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers >>> and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for >>> years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >>> independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >>> >>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the >>> skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. >>> Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >>> training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain >>> after at least a six month stint. >>> >>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are >>> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense >>> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do >>> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at >>> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep >>> shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is >>> that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you >>> have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. >>> >>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried >>> something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >>> because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind >>> people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >>> benefits. >>> >>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods >>> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove >>> ourselves to the world. >>> >>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may >>> not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I >>> also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those >>> skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. >>> Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >>> training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, >>> where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on >>> campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out >>> what you really are able to do. >>> >>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing >>> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >>> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend >>> time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, >>> or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we >>> view training centers for the blind differently? >>> >>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and >>> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that >>> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we >>> not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We >>> should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to >>> choosing a training center. >>> >>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that >>> blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I >>> have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not >>> reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they >>> can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other >>> agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, >>> and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many >>> other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own >>> training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves >>> ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, >>> leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to >>> face the world. >>> >>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >>> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >>> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >>> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >>> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. >>> I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or >>> any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a >>> whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I >>> have not been back since. >>> >>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). >>> I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and >>> I owe this to a positive training center. >>> >>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As >>> blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds >>> too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Jordan Richardson > President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." > ~*Frederick Douglass* > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 00:29:37 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] training centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would vote for CCB. BLIND Inc is good too. I have a friend or two who graduated from BLIND Inc. Not a bad bunch, the BLIND Inc-ers are. But CCB people are good and I think our director, Julie Deden is the best. Beth On 2/8/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello. > I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do in > terms of my training. > > Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer. > > But I think I need more training then jus one summer. > > However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me doing > it again. > > Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year? > > Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month program? > > Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program. > > Also, what is, in your experience the best training center? > I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them, > but am open to other ideas. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Tue Feb 8 23:40:48 2011 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:40:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protective. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, On 8 February 2011 14:18, wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. > Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them > although those individuals were not NFB members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If > you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or > get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational activities > for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are > encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one > bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room > mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. > Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it may > not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside > of class as to where you can go. > Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I > want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. > Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at >> a >> Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us >> with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more >> interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested >> in >> being forced into what other people felt was the right path to >> independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing >> not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of >> training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes >> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind >> what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am >> positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me >> who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the >> same >> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across >> a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel >> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training >> center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do >> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers >> and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for >> years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >> independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the >> skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. >> Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >> training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain >> after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are >> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense >> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do >> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at >> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep >> shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is >> that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you >> have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried >> something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >> because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind >> people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >> benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods >> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove >> ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may >> not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I >> also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those >> skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. >> Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >> training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, >> where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on >> campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out >> what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing >> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend >> time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, >> or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we >> view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and >> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that >> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we >> not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We >> should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to >> choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that >> blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I >> have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not >> reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they >> can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other >> agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, >> and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many >> other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own >> training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves >> ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, >> leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to >> face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. >> I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or >> any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a >> whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I >> have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). >> I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and >> I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As >> blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds >> too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 01:04:10 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:04:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] training centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi George, there have been many cases where a summer program student has returned for a second summer. In fact, many of those situations have seen people transfer right into the full-time adult program of that person's choosing. In regards to the youth program vs. the adult program, think of the youth program as sort of an introduction to the training center environment. you are generally getting a sample size of the curriculim, with the exception that there are less planned recreational activities. If the oppertunity presents it's self to go to a summer program and the door is still opened for you to go into full-time training, I don't see the harm in taking advantage of it, but I would focus more on the oppertunity to take part in nine months of solid training, as to me, skills and confidence will be best fostered in that type of situation. On 2/8/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello. > I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do in > terms of my training. > > Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer. > > But I think I need more training then jus one summer. > > However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me doing > it again. > > Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year? > > Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month program? > > Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program. > > Also, what is, in your experience the best training center? > I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them, > but am open to other ideas. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 01:37:10 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:37:10 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac In-Reply-To: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> References: <2E07C485-CB03-4394-84C2-E9A1D2C62BAF@mac.com> Message-ID: Hello. I use bootcamp. You will need sighted assistance ti install windows but the first set up is easy. 1. go to utilities from finder and hit cmd o on bootcamp 2. hit continua 3. hit radio button that says I have already burned a set up cd and bootcamp drivers. 4. use the vertical splitter after you hit continue to choose your partition size. 5. hit quit if you don't have sighted help but from there you should be able to install a windows cd on partition 03. Spa On Feb 7, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi guys: > I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, > because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. > > So my question is this. > > Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 01:37:39 2011 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:37:39 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] applications key for Windows on a Mac In-Reply-To: <5BA56CBA-E666-4DFE-BA87-1BF7B1AEAEE9@mac.com> References: <5BA56CBA-E666-4DFE-BA87-1BF7B1AEAEE9@mac.com> Message-ID: I don't have one so what I do is hit shift f10 for the context menu. S On Feb 8, 2011, at 12:24 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi all: > Just wondering, > when you are using Windows on a mac, > I know the alt key will be the command key, start menu will be to the right of that, etc. > > Where will the applications key be? > > Will it be on the left where you find Command, option, control and function on the Mac--and does that mean Windows control will be the function key? > > > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Wed Feb 9 02:30:35 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:30:35 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: <5eWY1g0072PutTY05eWZyp@netzero.net> Hello all: First of all, I think I, personally, would be benefitted from going to a training center. I think the reasons why are: 1. Although my parents are proud for the hard work I've put into by going to school and getting great grades, and they support me quite into the same matter, their blindness philosophy is not mine, and it's not what I want out of my life. My Mom, as I grew up, did not teach me any skills of independence, like washing my own clothes, not being afraid of the stove, cleaning, and even she thought, that using a knife to cut apples was not possible for me. Then again, this is when I was little, and you know, the belief system really sets in when you are a kid. (If you know what I mean, anyways). Not until I came into this wonderful country that stands for freedom for all, I discovered the NFB. And, due to my parents' quite low expectations, I am now 20 years old, and still don't know how to do those things I have mentioned above. 2. I really want to go to college. So, college experience require a lot of independent experiences, So, I want to attend a training center. And with the fact, that I cannot get help from my state agency for the blind, it is quite a challenge to qualify for a training center. But anyways, just my 40 cents. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:31:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Bridgit, >This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at a >Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us >with a slightly dissenting view. >I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more >interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested in >being forced into what other people felt was the right path to independence. >Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for choosing >not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of >training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes >people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind what >anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals who >would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain >economies. >After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am >positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me >who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the same >levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is >possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have been >a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >Best, >Joe >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Dear List, >I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel >it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training >center to attend. >As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do >is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers >and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for >years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the >skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. >Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain >after at least a six month stint. >As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are >against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense >to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do >things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at >all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep >shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is >that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you >have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. >Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried >something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind >people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >benefits. >We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods >to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove >ourselves to the world. >I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may >not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I >also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those >skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. >Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, >where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on >campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out >what you really are able to do. >Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing >six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend >time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, >or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we >view training centers for the blind differently? >I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and >what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that >make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we >not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We >should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to >choosing a training center. >Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that >blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I >have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not >reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they >can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other >agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, >and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many >other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own >training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves >ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, >leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to >face the world. >I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. >I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or >any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a >whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I >have not been back since. >I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). >I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and >I owe this to a positive training center. >I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As >blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds >too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. >Bridgit >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From dandrews at visi.com Wed Feb 9 03:00:29 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 21:00:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian: Over many years, NFB Centers have developed a program for teaching adjustment to blindness that is somewhat different from more traditional programs like the Carroll Center. As they say, "the proof is in the pudding" and the system works. The best way to learn something is to have to actually do it -- hence apartments off the bat. You have the support and help of your fellow students so I am sure it is not as jarring as you might think. Your message seems to say there is a right and best way to do things -- and the Carroll Center does it. This isn't necessarily so -- there are thousands of people in the NFB who can attest otherwise. Dave At 08:04 AM 2/8/2011, you wrote: >Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's >not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire >year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >>Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >>of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >>recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >>about the center. >> >>On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>Daniel, >>> >>>For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the Blind >>>in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force you >>>in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that is >>>the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Daniel Romero" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>>Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>>touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>>On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>>but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>>My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>>Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Daniel Romero >>>>To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>>Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>>singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>>Jersey >>>>>Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>>highschool >>>>>program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>how >>>>>involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>would >>>>>be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>NABS >>>>>meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>you >>>>>know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> >> >>-- >>Daniel C Romero >>Paterson New Jersey From dandrews at visi.com Wed Feb 9 03:04:52 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 21:04:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian, While I am not trying to question your skills or independence, I must disagree that you "essentially get the same thing" from a home teacher. How can a 6 to 9 month intensive program compare to something where you have a teacher for a couple of hours, a couple days a week. Yes, you can learn some basic skills this way, to take care of yourself etc., but most people need more and better skills to live and work completely independently. Dave At 10:15 AM 2/8/2011, you wrote: >How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What >purpose do you have going to a center like this if you can >essentially get the same thing from a visiting rehab instructor in >your own place! I successfully graduated from the Carroll Center >and I'm a very independent person. Do you happen to know a guy by >the name of Kacey Lackrets? He and I were in the same Carroll >Center program. He is in college at NYU and is an NJ native as well. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >>You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 >>week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most >>people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make >>their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other >>indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many >>success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you in >>an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is in >>the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment >>during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're >>pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think >>that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is >>that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of >>them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 >>week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in >>Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like >>that. I'm just stating it how it really is. >> >>On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the >>>way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the >>>Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Daniel Romero" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>>Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>>>think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>>>definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >>>>of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >>>>recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >>>>about the center. >>>> >>>>On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>>Daniel, >>>>> >>>>>For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>>>>Blind >>>>>in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>>>>you >>>>>in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>>>>is >>>>>the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Daniel Romero" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>>>>touch! What did you play? >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>>>bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>>>going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>>>Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>>>>but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>>>>My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>>>>Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Daniel Romero >>>>>>To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>>>>singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>>>>Jersey >>>>>>>Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>>>>highschool >>>>>>>program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>>>I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>>>how >>>>>>>involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>>>would >>>>>>>be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>>>around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>>>NABS >>>>>>>meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>>>So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>>>you >>>>>>>know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>>> >>>>>>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>>>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> >> >>-- >>Daniel C Romero >>Paterson New Jersey >> >>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>djdan567 at gmail.com >>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>Skype: radiodj246 >>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 9 03:09:13 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:09:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: <5eWY1g0072PutTY05eWZyp@netzero.net> References: <5eWY1g0072PutTY05eWZyp@netzero.net> Message-ID: <1BA39D21EFB34272BFB62A459E8D609C@OwnerPC> Humberto, Curious which country? Also, why can't your state agency help? I think you have to be a US citizen; maybe that is why you can't get services. Many states have a lighthouse for the blind. Its not nfb philosophy or expectations. But services from them would teach you some skills like laundry. Another idea is if you have blind friends from NFB or other affiliations, maybe they can teach you some; get together and learn some things. Your parents may not expect anything. Do you have siblings? Maybe they would have more faith and belief in you. Get them to show you things. Cleaning is done a lot like the sighted people do it. In fact that would be a great discussion here. Have someone take your hand and show you the cleaning motion. Take a cleaning tool such as a sponge and go in a systematic pattern such as top to bottom; over lap the strokes as you clean. To clean you use the same tools and matterials as everyone else would. For laundry, if you read braille, have someone help you label the buttons in braille. Use initials such as M for medium and for temperatures: C for Cold, H for hot. Then measure out detergent; you can feel the amount in the cup. Then after clothes are in, just wash. Do not use bleach except for white clothes. Generally to keep clothes from fading, wash in cold water. Another tip is before drying your clothes, clean out the lent filter! Clothes generally dry for an hour. If not dried after that, put them in for another 15 minutes and then check them. Also if you have socks of different colors, you have to feel them to match them in pairs. If you cannot feel them to match say a blue with its coresponding blue sock, then you need another way. Safety pins will keep your socks hooked together in pairs. Also before washing pants, check the pockets to ensure you don't have tissues or other objects in them such as coins. Its easy to take off clothes and forget to remove little items such as these. Of the skills you mentioned, laundry is probably the easiest to learn. I learned some about cleaning at our state center and we reviewed laundry but I already knew most of that. While a center may be the best solution, if you cannot get the financial funding it may not be possible. So meanwhile seek out other sources. Good luck. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: humberto Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:30 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Hello all: First of all, I think I, personally, would be benefitted from going to a training center. I think the reasons why are: 1. Although my parents are proud for the hard work I've put into by going to school and getting great grades, and they support me quite into the same matter, their blindness philosophy is not mine, and it's not what I want out of my life. My Mom, as I grew up, did not teach me any skills of independence, like washing my own clothes, not being afraid of the stove, cleaning, and even she thought, that using a knife to cut apples was not possible for me. Then again, this is when I was little, and you know, the belief system really sets in when you are a kid. (If you know what I mean, anyways). Not until I came into this wonderful country that stands for freedom for all, I discovered the NFB. And, due to my parents' quite low expectations, I am now 20 years old, and still don't know how to do those things I have mentioned above. 2. I really want to go to college. So, college experience require a lot of independent experiences, So, I want to attend a training center. And with the fact, that I cannot get help from my state agency for the blind, it is quite a challenge to qualify for a training center. But anyways, just my 40 cents. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:31:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Bridgit, >This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at a >Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us >with a slightly dissenting view. >I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more >interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested in >being forced into what other people felt was the right path to independence. >Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for choosing >not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of >training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes >people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind what >anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals who >would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain >economies. >After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am >positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me >who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the same >levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is >possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have been >a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >Best, >Joe >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Dear List, >I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel >it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training >center to attend. >As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do >is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers >and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for >years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the >skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. >Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain >after at least a six month stint. >As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are >against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense >to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do >things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at >all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep >shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is >that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you >have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. >Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried >something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind >people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >benefits. >We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods >to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove >ourselves to the world. >I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may >not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I >also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those >skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. >Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, >where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on >campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out >what you really are able to do. >Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing >six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend >time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, >or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we >view training centers for the blind differently? >I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and >what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that >make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we >not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We >should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to >choosing a training center. >Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that >blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I >have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not >reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they >can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other >agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, >and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many >other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own >training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves >ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, >leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to >face the world. >I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. >I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or >any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a >whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I >have not been back since. >I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). >I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and >I owe this to a positive training center. >I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As >blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds >too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. >Bridgit >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Wed Feb 9 03:15:27 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 21:15:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction In-Reply-To: <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian: Each of us defines independence on the basis of our own expectations for ourselves and others. If you believe that a blind person can't travel independently at all, and you then learn how to go around your block, then you think I'm independent. On the other hand if you think that a blind person can't go to the airport by himself, and fly across the country, and stay in a hotel, and you then learn how, you think that's independence. In part, NFB centers help us expand our expectations of ourselves, more than you can generally do in a 16 week program. Dave At 10:15 AM 2/8/2011, you wrote: >How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What >purpose do you have going to a center like this if you can >essentially get the same thing from a visiting rehab instructor in >your own place! I successfully graduated from the Carroll Center >and I'm a very independent person. Do you happen to know a guy by >the name of Kacey Lackrets? He and I were in the same Carroll >Center program. He is in college at NYU and is an NJ native as well. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >>You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 >>week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most >>people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make >>their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other >>indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many >>success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you in >>an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is in >>the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment >>during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're >>pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think >>that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is >>that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of >>them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 >>week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in >>Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like >>that. I'm just stating it how it really is. >> >>On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not the >>>way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the >>>Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Daniel Romero" >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>>Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>>>think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>>>definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >>>>of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >>>>recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >>>>about the center. >>>> >>>>On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>>Daniel, >>>>> >>>>>For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>>>>Blind >>>>>in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>>>>you >>>>>in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>>>>is >>>>>the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Daniel Romero" >>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>>>>touch! What did you play? >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>>>bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>>>going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>>>Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>>>>but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>>>>My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>>>>Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: Daniel Romero >>>>>>To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>>>>singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>>>>Jersey >>>>>>>Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>>>>highschool >>>>>>>program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>>>I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>>>how >>>>>>>involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>>>would >>>>>>>be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>>>around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>>>NABS >>>>>>>meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>>>So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>>>you >>>>>>>know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>>> >>>>>>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>>>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Wed Feb 9 03:16:40 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:16:40 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: <5fGe1g0082PutTY05fGftP@netzero.net> Hey, thanks for the little training lesson you have just posted here, but I am sure I will seek other alternatives. And no, I am not a US citizen. I came from Mexico just 5 years ago. That's why my State agency just cannot provide with services. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:09:13 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Humberto, >Curious which country? Also, why can't your state agency help? I think you >have to be a US citizen; maybe that is why you can't get services. >Many states have a lighthouse for the blind. Its not nfb philosophy or >expectations. But services from them would teach you some skills like >laundry. >Another idea is if you have blind friends from NFB or other affiliations, >maybe they can teach you some; get together and learn some things. Your >parents may not expect anything. Do you have siblings? Maybe they would >have more faith and belief in you. Get them to show you things. >Cleaning is done a lot like the sighted people do it. In fact that would be >a great discussion here. >Have someone take your hand and show you the cleaning motion. Take a >cleaning tool such as a sponge and go in a systematic pattern such as top to >bottom; over lap the strokes as you clean. To clean you use the same tools >and matterials as everyone else would. >For laundry, if you read braille, have someone help you label the buttons in >braille. Use initials such as M for medium and for temperatures: C for Cold, >H for hot. Then measure out detergent; you can feel the amount in the cup. >Then after clothes are in, just wash. >Do not use bleach except for white clothes. Generally to keep clothes from >fading, wash in cold water. >Another tip is before drying your clothes, clean out the lent filter! >Clothes generally dry for an hour. If not dried after that, put them in for >another 15 minutes and then check them. >Also if you have socks of different colors, you have to feel them to match >them in pairs. If you cannot feel them to match say a blue with its >coresponding blue sock, then you need another way. Safety pins will keep >your socks hooked together in pairs. >Also before washing pants, check the pockets to ensure you don't have >tissues or other objects in them such as coins. >Its easy to take off clothes and forget to remove little items such as >these. >Of the skills you mentioned, laundry is probably the easiest to learn. >I learned some about cleaning at our state center and we reviewed laundry >but I already knew most of that. >While a center may be the best solution, if you cannot get the financial >funding it may not be possible. So meanwhile seek out other sources. >Good luck. >Ashley >-----Original Message----- >From: humberto >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:30 PM >To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Hello all: >First of all, I think I, personally, would be benefitted from >going to a training center. I think the reasons why are: >1. Although my parents are proud for the hard work I've put into >by going to school and getting great grades, and they support me >quite into the same matter, their blindness philosophy is not >mine, and it's not what I want out of my life. My Mom, as I grew >up, did not teach me any skills of independence, like washing my >own clothes, not being afraid of the stove, cleaning, and even >she thought, that using a knife to cut apples was not possible >for me. Then again, this is when I was little, and you know, the >belief system really sets in when you are a kid. (If you know >what I mean, anyways). Not until I came into this wonderful >country that stands for freedom for all, I discovered the NFB. >And, due to my parents' quite low expectations, I am now 20 years >old, and still don't know how to do those things I have mentioned >above. >2. I really want to go to college. So, college experience >require a lot of independent experiences, So, I want to attend a >training center. And with the fact, that I cannot get help from >my state agency for the blind, it is quite a challenge to qualify >for a training center. But anyways, just my 40 cents. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe Orozco" >To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:31:02 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >>Bridgit, >>This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >training at a >>Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are >some of us >>with a slightly dissenting view. >>I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I >was more >>interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >interested in >>being forced into what other people felt was the right path to >independence. >>Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my >first >>reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a >priority, but the >>second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >>I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me >for choosing >>not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's >model of >>training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni >that makes >>people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always >first in >>line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never >mind what >>anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very >little >>sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone >to NFB >>philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal >expectations, but no, >>these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or >wants >>training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch >professionals who >>would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable >expectation of >>stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >uncertain >>economies. >>After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue >training and am >>positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people >like me >>who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to >achieve the same >>levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your >own across a >>longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself >across >>multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, >though I >>have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about >woodwork. Maybe >>later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll >convince a >>Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. >Success is >>possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a >Center, you'll >>have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to >work even >>harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for >you and >>commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I >would have been >>a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I >read >>something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >>Best, >>Joe >>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >sleeves, >>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >Ewing >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >>Dear List, >>I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >feel >>it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >training >>center to attend. >>As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in >the >>process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you >can do >>is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >centers >>and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, >for >>years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >>independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >>We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but >these >>centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why >people >>train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can >learn the >>skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >mistaken. >>Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >>training course and they lack the confidence and ability that >most gain >>after at least a six month stint. >>As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why >people are >>against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >sense >>to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >do >>things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my >vision at >>all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >sleep >>shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >across is >>that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when >you >>have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish >things. >>Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >>freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have >never tried >>something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >>because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core >blind >>people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >>benefits. >>We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >>everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >methods >>to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >prove >>ourselves to the world. >>I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment >scenerio may >>not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >but I >>also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use >those >>skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right >away. >>Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >>training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the >Blind, >>where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing >is on >>campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find >out >>what you really are able to do. >>Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good >training >>center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >completing >>six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >>universities that truncate their programs because we don't want >to spend >>time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four >years, >>or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do >we >>view training centers for the blind differently? >>I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we >are and >>what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >that >>make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? >Do we >>not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course >not. We >>should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it >comes to >>choosing a training center. >>Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a >message that >>blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >Yes, I >>have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people >not >>reaching their full potential or not understanding how >independent they >>can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most >other >>agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of >independence, >>and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like >many >>other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened >our own >>training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers >leaves >>ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, >though, >>leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are >ready to >>face the world. >>I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of >training or >>the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing >my >>vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do >things, I >>just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what >people >>told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >things. >>I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the >NFB or >>any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, >in a >>whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from >home. I >>have not been back since. >>I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >too). >>I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >more, and >>I owe this to a positive training center. >>I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this >topic. As >>blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >minds >>too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >potential. >>Bridgit >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >5369%40netzero.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Wed Feb 9 03:24:14 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 22:24:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction References: <4d503877.815bdf0a.43c7.ffff80f2@mx.google.com> <001101cbc732$c2b64b10$9560c747@BRIAN> <000301cbc799$1d0435d0$9560c747@BRIAN> <003301cbc7ab$7b0a78d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <004c01cbc808$d56216a0$9560c747@BRIAN> Dave, I am very independent, I'm living far from family, I've traveled by myself and I'v successfuly completed college and my training program! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > Brian: > > Each of us defines independence on the basis of our own expectations for > ourselves and others. > > If you believe that a blind person can't travel independently at all, and > you then learn how to go around your block, then you think I'm > independent. On the other hand if you think that a blind person can't go > to the airport by himself, and fly across the country, and stay in a > hotel, and you then learn how, you think that's independence. > > In part, NFB centers help us expand our expectations of ourselves, more > than you can generally do in a 16 week program. > > Dave > > At 10:15 AM 2/8/2011, you wrote: >>How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What purpose do >>you have going to a center like this if you can essentially get the same >>thing from a visiting rehab instructor in your own place! I successfully >>graduated from the Carroll Center and I'm a very independent person. Do >>you happen to know a guy by the name of Kacey Lackrets? He and I were in >>the same Carroll Center program. He is in college at NYU and is an NJ >>native as well. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>>You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 >>>week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most >>>people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make >>>their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other >>>indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many >>>success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you in >>>an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is in >>>the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment >>>during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're >>>pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think >>>that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is >>>that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of >>>them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 >>>week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in >>>Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like >>>that. I'm just stating it how it really is. >>> >>>On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's not >>>>the >>>>way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the >>>>Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Daniel Romero" >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> >>>>>Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>>>>think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>>>>definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >>>>>of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >>>>>recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >>>>>about the center. >>>>> >>>>>On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>>>Daniel, >>>>>> >>>>>>For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For the >>>>>>Blind >>>>>>in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>>>>>you >>>>>>in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like >>>>>>that >>>>>>is >>>>>>the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Daniel Romero" >>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>>Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>>>>>>touch! What did you play? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>>>>Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>>>>bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>>>>going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>>>>Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>>>>>but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. >>>>>>>>My AIM iss the same as my twitter. >>>>>>>>Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: Daniel Romero >>>>>>>To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>>>>>singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>>>>>Jersey >>>>>>>>Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>>>>>highschool >>>>>>>>program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>>>>I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>>>>how >>>>>>>>involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>>>>would >>>>>>>>be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>>>>around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>>>>NABS >>>>>>>>meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>>>>So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>>>>you >>>>>>>>know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>>sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>for >>>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>>>>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Daniel C Romero >>>>>Paterson New Jersey >>>>> >>>>>Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>>Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>>MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>nabs-l: >>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 9 03:30:21 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:30:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and state agencies In-Reply-To: <5fGe1g0082PutTY05fGftP@netzero.net> References: <5fGe1g0082PutTY05fGftP@netzero.net> Message-ID: <6A1758B8ACA74322B16E23AA7C7692B8@OwnerPC> Humberto, Oh, I thought you were from Spain or latin America from your name. Anyway yes your immigration status is probably why you are not eligible for services. It costs 3,500 a month approximately to go to a nfb center. So if your agency cannot sponsor you, you probably can't go. Yes seek out other resources. I'm just saying that other people may be able to help you if you have trouble getting the formal training you want. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: humberto Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Hey, thanks for the little training lesson you have just posted here, but I am sure I will seek other alternatives. And no, I am not a US citizen. I came from Mexico just 5 years ago. That's why my State agency just cannot provide with services. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:09:13 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Humberto, >Curious which country? Also, why can't your state agency help? I think you >have to be a US citizen; maybe that is why you can't get services. >Many states have a lighthouse for the blind. Its not nfb philosophy or >expectations. But services from them would teach you some skills like >laundry. >Another idea is if you have blind friends from NFB or other affiliations, >maybe they can teach you some; get together and learn some things. Your >parents may not expect anything. Do you have siblings? Maybe they would >have more faith and belief in you. Get them to show you things. >Cleaning is done a lot like the sighted people do it. In fact that would be >a great discussion here. >Have someone take your hand and show you the cleaning motion. Take a >cleaning tool such as a sponge and go in a systematic pattern such as top to >bottom; over lap the strokes as you clean. To clean you use the same tools >and matterials as everyone else would. >For laundry, if you read braille, have someone help you label the buttons in >braille. Use initials such as M for medium and for temperatures: C for Cold, >H for hot. Then measure out detergent; you can feel the amount in the cup. >Then after clothes are in, just wash. >Do not use bleach except for white clothes. Generally to keep clothes from >fading, wash in cold water. >Another tip is before drying your clothes, clean out the lent filter! >Clothes generally dry for an hour. If not dried after that, put them in for >another 15 minutes and then check them. >Also if you have socks of different colors, you have to feel them to match >them in pairs. If you cannot feel them to match say a blue with its >coresponding blue sock, then you need another way. Safety pins will keep >your socks hooked together in pairs. >Also before washing pants, check the pockets to ensure you don't have >tissues or other objects in them such as coins. >Its easy to take off clothes and forget to remove little items such as >these. >Of the skills you mentioned, laundry is probably the easiest to learn. >I learned some about cleaning at our state center and we reviewed laundry >but I already knew most of that. >While a center may be the best solution, if you cannot get the financial >funding it may not be possible. So meanwhile seek out other sources. >Good luck. >Ashley >-----Original Message----- >From: humberto >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:30 PM >To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >Hello all: >First of all, I think I, personally, would be benefitted from >going to a training center. I think the reasons why are: >1. Although my parents are proud for the hard work I've put into >by going to school and getting great grades, and they support me >quite into the same matter, their blindness philosophy is not >mine, and it's not what I want out of my life. My Mom, as I grew >up, did not teach me any skills of independence, like washing my >own clothes, not being afraid of the stove, cleaning, and even >she thought, that using a knife to cut apples was not possible >for me. Then again, this is when I was little, and you know, the >belief system really sets in when you are a kid. (If you know >what I mean, anyways). Not until I came into this wonderful >country that stands for freedom for all, I discovered the NFB. >And, due to my parents' quite low expectations, I am now 20 years >old, and still don't know how to do those things I have mentioned >above. >2. I really want to go to college. So, college experience >require a lot of independent experiences, So, I want to attend a >training center. And with the fact, that I cannot get help from >my state agency for the blind, it is quite a challenge to qualify >for a training center. But anyways, just my 40 cents. >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joe Orozco" >To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:31:02 -0500 >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >>Bridgit, >>This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >training at a >>Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are >some of us >>with a slightly dissenting view. >>I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I >was more >>interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >interested in >>being forced into what other people felt was the right path to >independence. >>Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my >first >>reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a >priority, but the >>second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >>I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me >for choosing >>not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's >model of >>training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni >that makes >>people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always >first in >>line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never >mind what >>anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very >little >>sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone >to NFB >>philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal >expectations, but no, >>these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or >wants >>training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch >professionals who >>would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable >expectation of >>stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >uncertain >>economies. >>After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue >training and am >>positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people >like me >>who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to >achieve the same >>levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your >own across a >>longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself >across >>multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, >though I >>have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about >woodwork. Maybe >>later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll >convince a >>Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. >Success is >>possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a >Center, you'll >>have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to >work even >>harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for >you and >>commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I >would have been >>a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I >read >>something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >>Best, >>Joe >>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >sleeves, >>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >Ewing >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >>Dear List, >>I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >feel >>it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >training >>center to attend. >>As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in >the >>process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you >can do >>is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >centers >>and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, >for >>years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >>independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >>We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but >these >>centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why >people >>train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can >learn the >>skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >mistaken. >>Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >>training course and they lack the confidence and ability that >most gain >>after at least a six month stint. >>As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why >people are >>against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >sense >>to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >do >>things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my >vision at >>all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >sleep >>shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >across is >>that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when >you >>have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish >things. >>Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >>freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have >never tried >>something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >>because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core >blind >>people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >>benefits. >>We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >>everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >methods >>to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >prove >>ourselves to the world. >>I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment >scenerio may >>not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >but I >>also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use >those >>skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right >away. >>Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >>training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the >Blind, >>where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing >is on >>campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find >out >>what you really are able to do. >>Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good >training >>center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >completing >>six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >>universities that truncate their programs because we don't want >to spend >>time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four >years, >>or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do >we >>view training centers for the blind differently? >>I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we >are and >>what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >that >>make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? >Do we >>not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course >not. We >>should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it >comes to >>choosing a training center. >>Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a >message that >>blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >Yes, I >>have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people >not >>reaching their full potential or not understanding how >independent they >>can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most >other >>agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of >independence, >>and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like >many >>other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened >our own >>training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers >leaves >>ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, >though, >>leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are >ready to >>face the world. >>I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of >training or >>the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing >my >>vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do >things, I >>just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what >people >>told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >things. >>I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the >NFB or >>any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, >in a >>whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from >home. I >>have not been back since. >>I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >too). >>I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >more, and >>I owe this to a positive training center. >>I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this >topic. As >>blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >minds >>too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >potential. >>Bridgit >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>%40gmail.com >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >5369%40netzero.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma hb%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 9 04:25:17 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 23:25:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] formatting and jaws Message-ID: <1BC5728E001F4F3CA5823E4CED733B25@OwnerPC> Hi all, I have jaws 12. I need to obtain more info about the format because in these notes italics mean certain things and bold is something else. When I’m reading a whole screen or line, how can I get jaws to state this? Can I change the settings to state its bold text before reading the bolded words? I already know about insert F. That only works for the word you’re on. Can you change it in the verbosity settings maybe? Thanks. From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 9 06:05:23 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 00:05:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Needing text pal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, When I said Word, I meant Adobe Acrobat. I am having one of those days. PDF's open up through Adobe, and through Adobe, you can convert into text files. It is quick and easy to do. Most computers have Adobe Acrobat on them. All you have to do is go to the File menu then go to Save As Text. If it is not on your computer, you should be able to install it. Bridgit From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 9 06:58:35 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 00:58:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Darian, I agree with you. We can't lump everyone into one group or another. We can't say this is the only way to do something-- when we have this attitude, we begin to close our minds. I will always recommend a training facility that stresses independence and does not accept limitations put on us by society. I can only speak from my own experience, but I do not disagree that you can attend a center different from NFB, or similar centers, and become an active, independent person. Unfortunately, I have not met people like this, but I am not so deluded as to think this means they do not exist. We need to welcome everyone and be open to honest communication. I only ask we all challenge ourselves and strive to reach our full potential. I include myself in this and know I can do better each day. We promote one thing over another because we gain a personal experience and form an opinion. I am on the side of Structured Discovery and sleep shade training. I know what I have witnessed first-hand, and I know what I have observed in others. More power to anyone who finds what they need and lives their life. By saying there is only one way, we place limitations when that is the opposite of the goal we are trying to reach. I mentioned in my previous email that not everyone coming out of NFB centers, or other agencies following similar methods, are capable, independent people. And the opposite can be said about centers that teach another method. Again, I only speak from my experience, and I have to place my vote with what I consider is the stronger program. I think we all must encourage, but we all must respect individual decisions. My experience of the world has led me to discover that not one person-- one entity-- has all the answers. Bridgit Message: 8 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 11:17:17 -0800 From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Bridgit and list, I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited greatly from that type of environment. I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone through any formalized training or training at a center that stressed structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as happy, just asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also say the same for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no college expirience. Will the numbers end up the same if you were to break down statistics on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are out there. I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a counter argument just for the sake of discussion. Like I say, I went through the training center environment that Bridgit speaks of, and learned a great amount, I first started the program believeing that six months would do it for me, andas I look back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would have. thoughts folks? respectfully, Darian On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB > centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is > because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for > instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the > skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn > the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are > mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not > complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability > that most gain after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say > sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes > across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that > when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish > things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never > tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all > this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core > blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know > the benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio > may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, > but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use > those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right > away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style > of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the > Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but > housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself > and find out what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to > spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four > years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why > do we view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do > we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. > We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes > to choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message > that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. > Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind > people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how > independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was > because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this > sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds > to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept > this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating > from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut > this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do > anything, and they are ready to face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of > things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of > the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for > training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived > away from home. I have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind > too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and > more, and I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. > As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our > minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own > potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm > ail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:31:02 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bridgit, This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right path to independence. Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the second reason, to me, still holds a little water. I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind what anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals who would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain economies. After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own across a longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have been a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read something like the post below when I graduated from high school. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Dear List, I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training center to attend. As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain after at least a six month stint. As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the benefits. We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove ourselves to the world. I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out what you really are able to do. Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to choosing a training center. Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I have not been back since. I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and I owe this to a positive training center. I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. Bridgit _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:58:49 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: jsorozco at gmail.com, National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the case. Thoughts?, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Bridgit, > > This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training > at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are > some of us with a slightly dissenting view. > > I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was > more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all > interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right > path to independence. Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate > the stupidity of my first reason. If you want something bad enough, > you make it a priority, but the second reason, to me, still holds a > little water. > > I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for > choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone > else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among > Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left out. > Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing what you > need to do and never mind what anyone else says, but from a marketing > perspective, it makes very little sense to make it appear as though > NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers > feature phenomenal expectations, but no, these centers will never be > able to reach everyone who needs or wants training. A flexible plan > ought to be exercised to catch professionals who would like NFB-style > training without the unreasonable expectation of stopping employment > for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain economies. > > After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training > and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think > people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared > to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of > doing it on your own across a longer period of time. You have to > commit to pushing yourself across multiple fronts to maintain > confidence. I feel I've done that, though I have not found someone to > teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe later when I have the > sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a Center to let me > train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is possible > whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll have > to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even > harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you > and commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would > have been a little more swayed in favor of the training center route > had I read something like the post below when I graduated from high > school. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB > centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is > because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for > instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the > skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn > the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are > mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not > complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability > that most gain after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say > sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes > across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that > when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish > things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never > tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all > this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core > blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know > the benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio > may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, > but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use > those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right > away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style > of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the > Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but > housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself > and find out what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to > spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four > years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why > do we view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do > we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. > We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes > to choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message > that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. > Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind > people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how > independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was > because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this > sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds > to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept > this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating > from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut > this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do > anything, and they are ready to face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of > things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of > the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for > training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived > away from home. I have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind > too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and > more, and I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. > As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our > minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own > potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:11:19 -0700 From: Beth To: jsorozco at gmail.com, National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I agree with the posts, Bridgit and Joe. I'm a student at the CCB, and I'm really enjoying it, except for the snow. lol But other than the snow, and all the ploughing and traffic that results, I really love it. I'm going to live somewhere on my own, and sometime later, my current boyfriend, who btw is blind, could marry me! These are things I could never have dreamed of before I came to CCB. Before CCB, I had a family that absolutely would not allow me to catch the bus somewhere or go places without a driver. Well, Titusville, Florida is one of the more rural cities with a dangerous bus system to use. The paratransit sucks, but I wanted a place with more public transit, so Denver won. When I met my current boyfriend, I learned to not only do the skills, but I learned to live, laugh, love, grow. He and I bonded, and believe you me, he has seen my training progress. I love cooking in my crock pot, finding good recipes, and doing cool stuff in the oven. I wanted to make cake cookies for my friend Carrisa who's probably going to be delayed in her coming back. Poor thing. But anyhoo, CCB is the way to go for me because of the transit, the diversity of people there, and the love and support I get from the NFB of Denver. Thanks. :-d Beth Taurasi On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Bridgit, > > This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training > at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are > some of us with a slightly dissenting view. > > I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was > more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all > interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right > path to independence. Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate > the stupidity of my first reason. If you want something bad enough, > you make it a priority, but the second reason, to me, still holds a > little water. > > I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for > choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone > else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among > Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left out. > Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing what you > need to do and never mind what anyone else says, but from a marketing > perspective, it makes very little sense to make it appear as though > NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers > feature phenomenal expectations, but no, these centers will never be > able to reach everyone who needs or wants training. A flexible plan > ought to be exercised to catch professionals who would like NFB-style > training without the unreasonable expectation of stopping employment > for an extended period of time, especially in uncertain economies. > > After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training > and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think > people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared > to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of > doing it on your own across a longer period of time. You have to > commit to pushing yourself across multiple fronts to maintain > confidence. I feel I've done that, though I have not found someone to > teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe later when I have the > sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a Center to let me > train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success is possible > whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll have > to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even > harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you > and commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would > have been a little more swayed in favor of the training center route > had I read something like the post below when I graduated from high > school. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB > centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is > because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for > instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the > skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn > the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are > mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not > complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability > that most gain after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say > sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes > across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that > when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish > things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never > tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all > this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core > blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know > the benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio > may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, > but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use > those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right > away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style > of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the > Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but > housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself > and find out what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to > spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four > years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why > do we view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do > we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. > We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes > to choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message > that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. > Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind > people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how > independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was > because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this > sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds > to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept > this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating > from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut > this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do > anything, and they are ready to face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of > things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of > the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for > training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived > away from home. I have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind > too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and > more, and I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. > As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our > minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own > potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:11:49 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: <6F1C496D1A6B4FC69BEC2F7EF0BFD2DF at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello, That's true Darian. There are people out there who went to no formal training center or did it another way who are successful. There are other centers out there that use apartments for housing. Some people train on their own and get a teacher from the agency for the blind to come out to their home and teach them. There are itenerant rehab teachers and O&M instructors. Going the extended time to a training center for six months may not be for everyone due to leaving kids, not being able to keep their house while gone or other circumstances. Structured discovery wouldn't work for me because I don't learn by cardinal directions in travel. I cannot interpret sound cues alone without visual input and I like maps rather than just oral directions to walk a few blocks, cross x street and y street and go to some address. Traditional instructors are more concrete and may use maps to convey concepts. Now I do agree some traditional instructors especially for cane travel, don't have the highest expectations. But I hope that is changing and you can always push yourself if your instructor doesn't. People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence. I already went to our state center for a while; several months and its good for some things and bad for others. For instance all we did in cooking class was baking sweets primarily. The class I got the most from was daily living; the instructor showed things and went step by step. One size doesn't fit all. When I hear the nfb center graduates say negative things and make assumptions about other blind people like oh they lack initiative or something it sounds like those who went to centers are acting elite. That said I still need to figure out some skills. I don't know if I'll go to another center, probably carroll center, or learn on my own through friends. But I really need to learn to cook! Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Bridgit and list, I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited greatly from that type of environment. I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone through any formalized training or training at a center that stressed structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as happy, just asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also say the same for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no college expirience. Will the numbers end up the same if you were to break down statistics on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are out there. I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a counter argument just for the sake of discussion. Like I say, I went through the training center environment that Bridgit speaks of, and learned a great amount, I first started the program believeing that six months would do it for me, andas I look back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would have. thoughts folks? respectfully, Darian On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB > centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is > because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for > instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the > skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn > the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are > mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not > complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability > that most gain after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say > sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes > across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that > when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish > things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never > tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all > this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core > blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know > the benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio > may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, > but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use > those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right > away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style > of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the > Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but > housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself > and find out what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to > spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four > years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why > do we view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do > we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. > We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes > to choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message > that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. > Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind > people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how > independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was > because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this > sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds > to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept > this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating > from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut > this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do > anything, and they are ready to face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of > things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of > the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for > training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived > away from home. I have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind > too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and > more, and I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. > As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our > minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own > potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm > ail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:14:53 -0700 From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] As promised, Aplia post. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Joshua, Beth here. I am not in business communications, but you're right. If Applia doesn't get compatible, then there will be a lawsuit. Same as with Target dot com. Beth On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm in a business communications class in college. The online workbook > for this class is called Aplia. You can go to www.aplia.com, sign in > via your E-mail address, and put your date of birth as your password. > That is the only password these college sites accept. Once you've > joined Aplia, you can read the questions, and do the assignments. This > is only for those of you that are taking Business Communications > classes, that use the program, this isn't for just anyone. I'm > bringing this up, because the Jaws doesn't read all of the text to me, > and I have to have a reader, in order to do this work. When the Jaws > does read it, I can read the questions, but when I check the answers, > it won't tell me if I've answered the questions or not. My instructor > has E-mailed them about this problem, but they haven't responded to > her. If they don't respond, I think it would be wise for the NFB to > get involved. There may be more blind students using this program, and > it needs to be compatible with the Jaws program. If this company > doesn't do their duty, as written in the IDEA, there could be legal > troubles awaiting them. I just want to know, how many of you are in > Business Communications classes, or have taken them, using Aplia. > Blessings, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:18:55 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Kirt, Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them although those individuals were not NFB members. The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational activities for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the case. Thoughts?, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Bridgit, > > This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training > at > a > Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us > with a slightly dissenting view. > > I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was > more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all > interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right > path to independence. > Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first > reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the > second reason, to me, still holds a little water. > > I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for > choosing > not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of > training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes > people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in > line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind > what > anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little > sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB > philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, > these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants > training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals > who > would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of > stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in > uncertain > economies. > > After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training > and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think > people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared > to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of > doing it on your own across a > longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across > multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I > have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe > later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a > Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success > is > possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll > have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even > harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and > commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have > been > a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read > something like the post below when I graduated from high school. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB > centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is > because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for > instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the > skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn > the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are > mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not > complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability > that most gain after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say > sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes > across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that > when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish > things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never > tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all > this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core > blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know > the benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio > may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, > but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use > those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right > away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style > of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the > Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but > housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself > and find out what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to > spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four > years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why > do we view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do > we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. > We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes > to choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message > that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. > Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind > people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how > independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was > because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this > sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds > to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept > this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating > from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut > this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do > anything, and they are ready to face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of > things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of > the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for > training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived > away from home. I have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind > too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and > more, and I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. > As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our > minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own > potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:24:34 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] applications key for Windows on a Mac Message-ID: <5BA56CBA-E666-4DFE-BA87-1BF7B1AEAEE9 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all: Just wondering, when you are using Windows on a mac, I know the alt key will be the command key, start menu will be to the right of that, etc. Where will the applications key be? Will it be on the left where you find Command, option, control and function on the Mac--and does that mean Windows control will be the function key? Thanks. Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:28:30 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac Message-ID: <71687AB0-C15D-4FAC-BD2F-B521A456C060 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Thanks IC. Just wondering, would I have to reformat my drive in order to duelboot? On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:53 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Just get it from Bittorrent or something. As long as you have a valid > license you shouldn't have any issues activating Windows. Just make > sure to download the exact version of the OS that your license is for. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> OK Thanks guys. >> >> Anywhere I can download a demo version of Windows? >> >> I already have license, >> but don't have the CD it came with. >> >> Anywhere I could download and license the download? >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Maurice Mines wrote: >> >>> yes. >>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys: >>>> I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, >>>> because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. >>>> >>>> So my question is this. >>>> >>>> Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me >>>> .com >>> >>> Maurice Mines >>> minesm at me.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%4 >>> 0mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:37:12 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Diversity? Can you please elaborate? Thanks, Jorge On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Daniel Romero wrote: > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >> the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they >> don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into >> something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >>>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going >>>> to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank >>>> Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m >>>> Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM >>>> iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:47:02 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Joshua, Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this one hasn't had that problem. All the best, Kirt On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws > reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the > audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >> Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and >> inconvenient. Especially for large books. >> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >> well at all. >> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >> me at a consistently faster pace. >> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >> skills still. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >>> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >>> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and >>> I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >>> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to >>> 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take >>> classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World >>> Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything >>> to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but >>> Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as >>> well. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:55:48 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good > deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with > lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, > but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare > files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this > one hasn't had that problem. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >>> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >>> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >>> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >>> Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, >>> and inconvenient. Especially for large books. >>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>> well at all. >>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>> skills still. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the >>>> answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. >>>> I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to >>>> Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It >>>> bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight >>>> in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. >>>> They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or >>>> Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers >>>> read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer >>>> programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should >>>> join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers >>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny >>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history >>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:09:24 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them however I like and, by and large, they are readable. All the best, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any > classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the > Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications > textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, > these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady > reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on > that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they > don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names > of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! > They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate > their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for > audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good >> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with >> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, >> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare >> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this >> one hasn't had that problem. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for >>>> literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not >>>> being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, >>>> it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit >>>> much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is >>>> cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. >>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>>> well at all. >>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>>> skills still. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that >>>>> they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been >>>>> their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded >>>>> was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is >>>>> the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this >>>>> list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes >>>>> to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! >>>>> It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their >>>>> sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in >>>>> Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the >>>>> Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have >>>>> computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these >>>>> computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, >>>>> I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers >>>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny >>>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history >>>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that >>>>>>>it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:34:10 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <1B40126B-F212-496D-A4B0-712BBEF23413 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII How do they help newly blinded adults? 1. by giving them the same treatment as when they were sighted, building up confidence, and 2. by teaching them the skills, which they'll have to use every day. What I like so much about BLIND INC. was that it was that real-world test that really helped me. Not only did I learn the skills--but I put them to practice each and every day while in training. This was no theory training--but solid hands on training. Jorge On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What purpose > do you have going to a center like this if you can essentially get the same thing from a visiting rehab instructor in your own place! I successfully graduated from the Carroll Center and I'm a very independent person. Do you happen to know a guy by the name of Kacey Lackrets? He and I were in the same Carroll Center program. He is in college at NYU and is an NJ native as well. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 >> week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most >> people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make >> their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other >> indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many >> success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you >> in an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is >> in the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment >> during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're >> pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think >> that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is >> that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of >> them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 >> week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in >> Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like >> that. I'm just stating it how it really is. >> >> On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's >>> not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire >>> year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>>> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>>> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but >>>> because of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But >>>> thanks for the recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since >>>> I know nothing about the center. >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> Daniel, >>>>> >>>>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >>>>> the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and >>>>> they don't force you >>>>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>>>> is >>>>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep >>>>>> in touch! What did you play? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never >>>>>>> guess, but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is >>>>>>> jazzychic2. My AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, >>>>>>> and singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS >>>>>>> (New Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily >>>>>>> active in a highschool >>>>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>>> NABS >>>>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >>>>>>> i >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>> >>>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:20:53 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <2A83070EF5CF4B1783C8C7D0D5FB5B88 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, That's great your DSS and most scan texts and put them in the text form of your choice. How long does that take? Do you get the chapters in time to read for homework? Is the whole book on CD once all scanned? Do you have to give them your book for scanning? If so, do they cut the binding off to scan? I wouldn't want them to tear the book apart since then it cannot be sold to the bookstore. Nova, the community college, does not have scanning ability and told me they'd have to send the book to George mason university if I wanted it scanned. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them however I like and, by and large, they are readable. All the best, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any > classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the > Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications > textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, > these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady > reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on > that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they > don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names > of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! > They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate > their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for > audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good >> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with >> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, >> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare >> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this >> one hasn't had that problem. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for >>>> literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not >>>> being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, >>>> it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit >>>> much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is >>>> cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. >>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>>> well at all. >>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>>> skills still. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that >>>>> they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been >>>>> their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded >>>>> was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is >>>>> the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this >>>>> list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes >>>>> to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! >>>>> It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their >>>>> sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in >>>>> Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the >>>>> Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have >>>>> computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these >>>>> computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, >>>>> I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers >>>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny >>>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history >>>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that >>>>>>>it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:51:50 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] training centers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hello. I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do in terms of my training. Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer. But I think I need more training then jus one summer. However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me doing it again. Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year? Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month program? Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program. Also, what is, in your experience the best training center? I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them, but am open to other ideas. Thanks, Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:32:40 -0500 From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <8528672ED6414B9FB10293FC2BF26B24 at AnjelinaPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response I don't know exact figures, but I've heard the two are comparable. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction How much cheaper would a CCB training Center be for nine months than a 16 week traditional center like Carroll Center? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > The advantage to a more time intensive training program is you are > immersed in the skills on a regular basis. The skills become habits > (having to cook, clean, travel to and from the center, etc.)which are more > likely to last. This approach isn't for everyone, however, it is an > effective method. More time is spent at the center, but it's more cost > effective for voc rehab in the long run. > -----Original Message----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Brian, > It?s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to > experience > independent living from day one Many people like it and experimenting. I > agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn the > skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment. > > Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's > not > the > way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the > Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >> about the center. >> >> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Daniel, >>> >>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >>> the >>> Blind >>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>> you >>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>> is >>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep >>>> in touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My >>>>> AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>> highschool >>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>> how >>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>> would >>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>> NABS >>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>> you >>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gm ail.com > > > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gm ail.com Anjelina ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:24 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, Jordan wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard > good things about them although those individuals were not NFB > members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. > If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part > time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational > activities for students; students can do what they want outside of > class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are > one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a > room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland > sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be > comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of > class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want > to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >> path to independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left >> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing >> what you need to do and never mind what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the >> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can >> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >> skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision >> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and >> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively >> accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >> know the benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of >> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, >> when it comes to choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of >> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for >> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived >> away from home. I have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:37:42 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, On 8 February 2011 14:18, wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard > good things about them although those individuals were not NFB > members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. > If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part > time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational > activities for students; students can do what they want outside of > class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are > one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a > room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland > sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be > comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of > class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want > to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >> path to independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left >> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing >> what you need to do and never mind what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the >> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can >> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >> skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision >> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and >> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively >> accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >> know the benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of >> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, >> when it comes to choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of >> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for >> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived >> away from home. I have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:31:35 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi all, > > Here's my two cents. > I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people > need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also > believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a > center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type > program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I > am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always > learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving > upon the skills we already have. > > With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with > "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has > the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity > they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They > simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other > community, and use the skills they have learned while they were > growing up. > > I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the > skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the > best way to learn something is to teach that something. > > I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out > of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning > they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, > farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If > you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This > will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will > build confidence in you. > > I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these > skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen > programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go > blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right > into the real world so that they can go to college right after high > school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and > contributing to society at large. > > To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. > > Your thoughts? > Respectfully, > Jordan wrote: > >> Hi Kirt, >> Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using >> apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard >> good things about them although those individuals were not NFB >> members. >> >> The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. >> If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part >> time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. >> Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational >> activities for students; students can do what they want outside of >> class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. >> >> Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are >> one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have >> a room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. >> Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it >> may not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no >> restrictions outside of class as to where you can go. Good luck with >> your decission. Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM >> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> >> Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, >> I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I >> want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training >> centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months >> and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest >> any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard >> of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be >> a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try >> and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned >> activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time >> and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was >> great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the >> case. Thoughts?, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Bridgit, >>> >>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >>> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >>> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >>> >>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >>> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >>> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >>> path to independence. >>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but >>> the >>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >>> >>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >>> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >>> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >>> Center alumni that makes >>> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >>> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind >>> what >>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but >>> no, >>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >>> who >>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >>> uncertain >>> economies. >>> >>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >>> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >>> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >>> prepared to achieve the same >>> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own >>> across a >>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. >>> Maybe >>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince >>> a >>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >>> is >>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, >>> you'll >>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >>> been >>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >>> all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >>> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >>> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >>> training center to attend. >>> >>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in >>> the process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you >>> can do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason >>> NFB centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >>> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >>> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >>> skills. >>> >>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >>> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >>> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >>> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >>> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >>> >>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >>> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >>> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you >>> can do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my >>> vision at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when >>> people say sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way >>> this comes across is that vision is still vital to be truly >>> independent, and that when you have no useable vision, you can not >>> effectively accomplish things. >>> >>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >>> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >>> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >>> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >>> know the benefits. >>> >>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >>> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way >>> to prove ourselves to the world. >>> >>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >>> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >>> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >>> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >>> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >>> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >>> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >>> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >>> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >>> >>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >>> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >>> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >>> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >>> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >>> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind >>> differently? >>> >>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >>> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in >>> life that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >>> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, >>> of course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, >>> then, when it comes to choosing a training center. >>> >>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >>> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >>> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >>> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >>> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >>> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >>> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >>> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >>> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >>> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >>> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >>> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >>> >>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training >>> or the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing >>> my vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do >>> things, I just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept >>> what people told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do >>> a lot of things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before >>> I knew of the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, >>> leaving for training, in a whole other state, was the first time I >>> truly lived away from home. I have not been back since. >>> >>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >>> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >>> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >>> >>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >>> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >>> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >>> potential. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydu >>> de%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Jordan Richardson > President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to > repair broken men." ~*Frederick > Douglass* html> > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:37 -0700 From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] training centers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I would vote for CCB. BLIND Inc is good too. I have a friend or two who graduated from BLIND Inc. Not a bad bunch, the BLIND Inc-ers are. But CCB people are good and I think our director, Julie Deden is the best. Beth On 2/8/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello. > I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do > in terms of my training. > > Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer. > > But I think I need more training then jus one summer. > > However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me > doing it again. > > Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year? > > Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month > program? > > Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program. > > Also, what is, in your experience the best training center? > I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them, > but am open to other ideas. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:40:48 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protective. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, On 8 February 2011 14:18, wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard > good things about them although those individuals were not NFB > members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. > If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part > time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational > activities for students; students can do what they want outside of > class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are > one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a > room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland > sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be > comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of > class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want > to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >> path to independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left >> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing >> what you need to do and never mind what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the >> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can >> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >> skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision >> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and >> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively >> accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >> know the benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of >> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, >> when it comes to choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of >> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for >> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived >> away from home. I have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 12 ************************************** From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 9 07:12:36 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 01:12:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, I, too, do not do well with cardinal directions, but I have learned to pay more attention to cardinal directions so when I travel, I can do my best. I was sighted for 22 years, and I am still a very visual person. It helps me to visualize places to better navigate them. I no longer can see beyond light, shadow and some colors (nothing to help in the vision department) but I have relearned to use other sensory information to translate a visual in my mind. Don't say you can't do something until you have really tried it. After graduating from a center, I did not use my travel skills as much as I should have. I was terrible at figuring out unfamiliar places and often I spent my time wandering around, trying to figure out what direction to take. A waste of time, let me tell you. Once I started really paying attention to my surroundings, and traveled independently more often, I began to rely on other sensory information, and using cardinal directions was not so confusing. I will probably always have more difficulty navigating a space right away-- some will be better than me, I will be better than some. I, through practice, have discovered how to get past certain obstacles, and my travel skills are much better and way more efficient. All I have to say is, don't knock it until you've tried it! *smile* Bridgit Message: 12 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:11:49 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: <6F1C496D1A6B4FC69BEC2F7EF0BFD2DF at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello, That's true Darian. There are people out there who went to no formal training center or did it another way who are successful. There are other centers out there that use apartments for housing. Some people train on their own and get a teacher from the agency for the blind to come out to their home and teach them. There are itenerant rehab teachers and O&M instructors. Going the extended time to a training center for six months may not be for everyone due to leaving kids, not being able to keep their house while gone or other circumstances. Structured discovery wouldn't work for me because I don't learn by cardinal directions in travel. I cannot interpret sound cues alone without visual input and I like maps rather than just oral directions to walk a few blocks, cross x street and y street and go to some address. Traditional instructors are more concrete and may use maps to convey concepts. Now I do agree some traditional instructors especially for cane travel, don't have the highest expectations. But I hope that is changing and you can always push yourself if your instructor doesn't. People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence. I already went to our state center for a while; several months and its good for some things and bad for others. For instance all we did in cooking class was baking sweets primarily. The class I got the most from was daily living; the instructor showed things and went step by step. One size doesn't fit all. When I hear the nfb center graduates say negative things and make assumptions about other blind people like oh they lack initiative or something it sounds like those who went to centers are acting elite. That said I still need to figure out some skills. I don't know if I'll go to another center, probably carroll center, or learn on my own through friends. But I really need to learn to cook! Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Bridgit and list, I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited greatly from that type of environment. I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone through any formalized training or training at a center that stressed structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as happy, just asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also say the same for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no college expirience. Will the numbers end up the same if you were to break down statistics on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are out there. I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a counter argument just for the sake of discussion. Like I say, I went through the training center environment that Bridgit speaks of, and learned a great amount, I first started the program believeing that six months would do it for me, andas I look back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would have. thoughts folks? respectfully, Darian On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB > centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is > because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for > instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the > skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn > the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are > mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not > complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability > that most gain after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say > sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes > across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that > when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish > things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never > tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all > this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core > blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know > the benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio > may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, > but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use > those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right > away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style > of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the > Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but > housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself > and find out what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to > spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four > years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why > do we view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do > we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. > We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes > to choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message > that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. > Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind > people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how > independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was > because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this > sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds > to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept > this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating > from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut > this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do > anything, and they are ready to face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of > things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of > the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for > training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived > away from home. I have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind > too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and > more, and I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. > As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our > minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own > potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm > ail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:14:53 -0700 From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] As promised, Aplia post. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Joshua, Beth here. I am not in business communications, but you're right. If Applia doesn't get compatible, then there will be a lawsuit. Same as with Target dot com. Beth On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I'm in a business communications class in college. The online workbook > for this class is called Aplia. You can go to www.aplia.com, sign in > via your E-mail address, and put your date of birth as your password. > That is the only password these college sites accept. Once you've > joined Aplia, you can read the questions, and do the assignments. This > is only for those of you that are taking Business Communications > classes, that use the program, this isn't for just anyone. I'm > bringing this up, because the Jaws doesn't read all of the text to me, > and I have to have a reader, in order to do this work. When the Jaws > does read it, I can read the questions, but when I check the answers, > it won't tell me if I've answered the questions or not. My instructor > has E-mailed them about this problem, but they haven't responded to > her. If they don't respond, I think it would be wise for the NFB to > get involved. There may be more blind students using this program, and > it needs to be compatible with the Jaws program. If this company > doesn't do their duty, as written in the IDEA, there could be legal > troubles awaiting them. I just want to know, how many of you are in > Business Communications classes, or have taken them, using Aplia. > Blessings, Joshua > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:18:55 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Kirt, Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard good things about them although those individuals were not NFB members. The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational activities for students; students can do what they want outside of class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the case. Thoughts?, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Bridgit, > > This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing training > at > a > Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are some of us > with a slightly dissenting view. > > I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was > more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all > interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right > path to independence. > Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first > reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the > second reason, to me, still holds a little water. > > I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for > choosing > not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's model of > training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni that makes > people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in > line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind > what > anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little > sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB > philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, > these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants > training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals > who > would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of > stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in > uncertain > economies. > > After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training > and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think > people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared > to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of > doing it on your own across a > longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across > multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I > have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe > later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a > Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success > is > possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll > have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even > harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and > commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have > been > a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read > something like the post below when I graduated from high school. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > Dear List, > > I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel > it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training > center to attend. > > As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the > process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do > is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB > centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is > because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for > instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the > skills. > > We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these > centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people > train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn > the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are > mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not > complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability > that most gain after at least a six month stint. > > As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are > against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense > to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do > things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at > all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say > sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes > across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that > when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish > things. > > Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that > freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never > tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all > this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core > blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know > the benefits. > > We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do > everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods > to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove > ourselves to the world. > > I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio > may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, > but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use > those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right > away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style > of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the > Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but > housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself > and find out what you really are able to do. > > Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training > center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing > six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose > universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to > spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four > years, or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why > do we view training centers for the blind differently? > > I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and > what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that > make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do > we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. > We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes > to choosing a training center. > > Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message > that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. > Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind > people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how > independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was > because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this > sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds > to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to accept > this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone graduating > from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the world, bbut > this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing they can do > anything, and they are ready to face the world. > > I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or > the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my > vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I > just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people > told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of > things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of > the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for > training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived > away from home. I have not been back since. > > I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind > too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and > more, and I owe this to a positive training center. > > I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. > As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our > minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own > potential. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:24:34 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] applications key for Windows on a Mac Message-ID: <5BA56CBA-E666-4DFE-BA87-1BF7B1AEAEE9 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hi all: Just wondering, when you are using Windows on a mac, I know the alt key will be the command key, start menu will be to the right of that, etc. Where will the applications key be? Will it be on the left where you find Command, option, control and function on the Mac--and does that mean Windows control will be the function key? Thanks. Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:28:30 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] duel booting - JAWS/W7 on a Mac Message-ID: <71687AB0-C15D-4FAC-BD2F-B521A456C060 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Thanks IC. Just wondering, would I have to reformat my drive in order to duelboot? On Feb 8, 2011, at 1:53 AM, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > Just get it from Bittorrent or something. As long as you have a valid > license you shouldn't have any issues activating Windows. Just make > sure to download the exact version of the OS that your license is for. > On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> OK Thanks guys. >> >> Anywhere I can download a demo version of Windows? >> >> I already have license, >> but don't have the CD it came with. >> >> Anywhere I could download and license the download? >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Maurice Mines wrote: >> >>> yes. >>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys: >>>> I'm going to have to duel-boot my Mac for school, >>>> because I'm going to be using Windows and Microsoft Office. >>>> >>>> So my question is this. >>>> >>>> Does anyone here know weather Bootcamp is accessible? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me >>>> .com >>> >>> Maurice Mines >>> minesm at me.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%4 >>> 0mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 15:37:12 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Diversity? Can you please elaborate? Thanks, Jorge On Feb 8, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Daniel Romero wrote: > Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't > think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my > definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because > of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the > recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing > about the center. > > On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Daniel, >> >> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >> the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they >> don't force you in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into >> something like that is the best thing. It was what I needed! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >> >> >>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep in >>> touch! What did you play? >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician bby >>>> blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm going >>>> to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. Thank >>>> Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, but m >>>> Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My AIM >>>> iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Daniel Romero >>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>> >>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>> highschool >>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>> how >>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>> would >>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>> NABS >>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>> you >>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gm >> ail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:47:02 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Joshua, Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this one hasn't had that problem. All the best, Kirt On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws > reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the > audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >> Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, and >> inconvenient. Especially for large books. >> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >> well at all. >> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >> me at a consistently faster pace. >> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >> skills still. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. >>> I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined >>> the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and >>> I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that >>> most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to >>> 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take >>> classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World >>> Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything >>> to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but >>> Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as >>> well. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >>>> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:55:48 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joshua, > Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good > deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with > lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, > but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare > files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this > one hasn't had that problem. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for literacy >>> among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not being met in >>> our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, it's escential >>> even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit much to me. >>> Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is cumbersome, roomy, >>> and inconvenient. Especially for large books. >>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>> well at all. >>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>> skills still. >>> All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they >>>> do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their >>>> best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my >>>> Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the >>>> answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. >>>> I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to >>>> Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It >>>> bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight >>>> in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. >>>> They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or >>>> Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers >>>> read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer >>>> programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should >>>> join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers >>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny >>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history >>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>>>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:09:24 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them however I like and, by and large, they are readable. All the best, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any > classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the > Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications > textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, > these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady > reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on > that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they > don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names > of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! > They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate > their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for > audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good >> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with >> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, >> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare >> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this >> one hasn't had that problem. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for >>>> literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not >>>> being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, >>>> it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit >>>> much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is >>>> cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. >>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>>> well at all. >>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>>> skills still. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that >>>>> they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been >>>>> their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded >>>>> was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is >>>>> the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this >>>>> list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes >>>>> to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! >>>>> It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their >>>>> sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in >>>>> Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the >>>>> Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have >>>>> computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these >>>>> computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, >>>>> I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers >>>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny >>>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history >>>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that >>>>>>>it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 16:34:10 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <1B40126B-F212-496D-A4B0-712BBEF23413 at mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII How do they help newly blinded adults? 1. by giving them the same treatment as when they were sighted, building up confidence, and 2. by teaching them the skills, which they'll have to use every day. What I like so much about BLIND INC. was that it was that real-world test that really helped me. Not only did I learn the skills--but I put them to practice each and every day while in training. This was no theory training--but solid hands on training. Jorge On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > How do these NFB Centers help newly blinded adults then? What purpose > do you have going to a center like this if you can essentially get the same thing from a visiting rehab instructor in your own place! I successfully graduated from the Carroll Center and I'm a very independent person. Do you happen to know a guy by the name of Kacey Lackrets? He and I were in the same Carroll Center program. He is in college at NYU and is an NJ native as well. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:51 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> You see, we have a center in New jersey called JKRC, where it is a 16 >> week program, as well. I've heard way to many negative stories. Most >> people I know who went their, are still living at home, don't make >> their own meals, can't repare anything for themselves and other >> indipendent things that should be done. I've heard however, many >> success stories from the NFB training centers. I think they put you >> in an apartment right at the start, because i feel that's how it is >> in the world. Even in apartments for college. if you get an apartment >> during college, you'd be lost. I think in the real world, you're >> pushed to get your own place and do your own things, and I think >> that's how it should be. That's one of the biggest problems today is >> that blind people can't fend for themselves, that's why 70 percent of >> them are unemployed. That's sad! So by you telling me that it's a 16 >> week program, that's sounding like our JKRC program out here in >> Jersey. I'm not trying to come across rood, nasty or anything like >> that. I'm just stating it how it really is. >> >> On 2/8/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's >>> not the way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire >>> year while the Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >>>> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >>>> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but >>>> because of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But >>>> thanks for the recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since >>>> I know nothing about the center. >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> Daniel, >>>>> >>>>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >>>>> the Blind in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and >>>>> they don't force you >>>>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>>>> is >>>>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep >>>>>> in touch! What did you play? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never >>>>>>> guess, but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is >>>>>>> jazzychic2. My AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, >>>>>>> and singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS >>>>>>> (New Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily >>>>>>> active in a highschool >>>>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>>>> NABS >>>>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/theblues >>>>>>> i >>>>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>>> >>>>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m > ac.com ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:20:53 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Message-ID: <2A83070EF5CF4B1783C8C7D0D5FB5B88 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, That's great your DSS and most scan texts and put them in the text form of your choice. How long does that take? Do you get the chapters in time to read for homework? Is the whole book on CD once all scanned? Do you have to give them your book for scanning? If so, do they cut the binding off to scan? I wouldn't want them to tear the book apart since then it cannot be sold to the bookstore. Nova, the community college, does not have scanning ability and told me they'd have to send the book to George mason university if I wanted it scanned. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text Fair enough. HOnestly, I don't know what I'd do without my campus disability center. They scan my textbooks and give them to me as text/rtf/kurzweil files, whatever format I want...then I can read them however I like and, by and large, they are readable. All the best, Kirt On 2/8/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't have a notetaker, so I use the audiobooks. I don't have any > classes where the graphics are a problem. I'd like to have the > Bookshare files for my Geography textbook, Business communications > textbook, and my Sociology textbook. Even in books like Sociology, > these readers from RFBD, stutter, and mumble. There was a young lady > reading my Freshman English 1 book. She was one of many narrators on > that recording. She was the best one of all of them. Too bad they > don't give their volunteer readers credit. They should give the names > of those narrators. The ones that do a great job should be rewarded! > They need to pick individuals that can project well, and can enunciate > their words. I've had enough of the mumbo-jumbo that passes for > audiobooks. That's just my two cents worth. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/8/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Joshua, >> Respectfully, from my experience audio textbooks have been a good >> deal more consistent than bookshare textbooks. Especially ones with >> lots of graphics/captions that aren't really necessary for the text, >> but get in the way like crazuy when they get scanned in to bookshare >> files. One of my textbooks is from bookshare, and, thankfully, this >> one hasn't had that problem. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> I mentioned Bookshare in my last post. I wouldn't mind the Jaws >>> reading my textbooks, I just want consistancy, something the >>> audiobooks don't provide. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/7/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I agree that braill is the foundation and cornerstone for >>>> literacy among blind people...and, sadly, braille needs are not >>>> being met in our schools in a lot of places. Braille is great, >>>> it's escential even...but "braille or nothing at all" seems a bit >>>> much to me. Consider a couple things: 1. Paper braille is >>>> cumbersome, roomy, and inconvenient. Especially for large books. >>>> 2. Refreshable braille is great, but it doesn't solve everything. >>>> For one, it's expensive. Also, from my experience, computer >>>> translated braille does not handle things like math or graphics very >>>> well at all. >>>> 3. It's really nice and convenient to have jaws speed read through >>>> large books. At least for me, reading documents with jaws is faster >>>> than reading them in braille. I'm a slow braille reader...I sit >>>> somewhere around 120-130 words a minute, and jaws can read things to >>>> me at a consistently faster pace. >>>> That's not to say I don't use braille. One of my textbooks, a logic >>>> book with all sorts of graphics and symbols, is in paper braille. I >>>> still do some of my reading in braille because it's real reading, not >>>> just listening. And braille taught me how to be a better speller. I >>>> use braille some now but, perhaps more importantly, it gave me a huge >>>> boost in my education. So I say braille is necessary, it absolutely >>>> should be taught...but it's not always the most efficient or practical >>>> way to do what needs to be done. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. >>>> But I'm sure glad I learned it, and I hope to improve my braille >>>> skills still. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>>>> I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that >>>>> they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been >>>>> their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded >>>>> was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is >>>>> the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this >>>>> list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes >>>>> to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! >>>>> It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their >>>>> sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in >>>>> Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the >>>>> Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have >>>>> computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these >>>>> computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, >>>>> I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>>> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >>>>>> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >>>>>> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers >>>>>> are volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny >>>>>>>that the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history >>>>>>>and Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that >>>>>>>it's laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress >>>>>>>narrators weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%4 0gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude > %40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:51:50 -0500 From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] training centers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hello. I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do in terms of my training. Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer. But I think I need more training then jus one summer. However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me doing it again. Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year? Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month program? Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program. Also, what is, in your experience the best training center? I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them, but am open to other ideas. Thanks, Jorge ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:32:40 -0500 From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction Message-ID: <8528672ED6414B9FB10293FC2BF26B24 at AnjelinaPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response I don't know exact figures, but I've heard the two are comparable. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction How much cheaper would a CCB training Center be for nine months than a 16 week traditional center like Carroll Center? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anjelina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > The advantage to a more time intensive training program is you are > immersed in the skills on a regular basis. The skills become habits > (having to cook, clean, travel to and from the center, etc.)which are more > likely to last. This approach isn't for everyone, however, it is an > effective method. More time is spent at the center, but it's more cost > effective for voc rehab in the long run. > -----Original Message----- > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:37 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Brian, > It?s a different way of teaching at nfb centers; they want you to > experience > independent living from day one Many people like it and experimenting. I > agree with you. Its not right for everyone; some of us want to learn the > skills like cooking/shopping before entering an apartment. > > Actually Brian, CCB and other nfb centers take 6-9 months. Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:04 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > Why do they push you into an apartment from day one at CCB? That's > not > the > way to teach blindness skills. Plus CCB takes an entire year while the > Carroll Center takes only 16 weeks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction > > >> Blind INC< is another NFB training center, and I'm sorryu, I don't >> think i can do MN. If I were ever to go to a center, CCB is my >> definite first choice. Not only because of the diversity, but because >> of the different climates i'd be able to walk too. But thanks for the >> recommendation in MA> I wouldn't take a chance since I know nothing >> about the center. >> >> On 2/7/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Daniel, >>> >>> For blindness skills training I'd recommend the Carroll Center For >>> the >>> Blind >>> in Newton Mass. You get more one on one training and they don't force >>> you >>> in an apartment from day one! Easing ones self into something like that >>> is >>> the best thing. It was what I needed! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:25 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>> >>> >>>> Very good. I'm constantly tweeting, so that's a great way to keep >>>> in touch! What did you play? >>>> >>>> On 2/7/11, Beth wrote: >>>>> Hi, Daniel. My name is Beth. Welcome to NABS. I'm a musician >>>>> bby blood trade, but I have since switched to social work. I'm >>>>> going to graduate soon from the Colorado center for the Blind. >>>>> Thank Goodness you have Twitter. Me too. You could never guess, >>>>> but m Twitter name is denverqueen0920. My Skype is jazzychic2. My >>>>> AIM iss the same as my twitter. Beth >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Daniel Romero >>>> To: Nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date sent: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 08:26:26 -0500 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel ROmero -- Introduction >>>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm Daniel Romero, a blind musician, music producer, and >>>>> singer from New Jersey. i am an active member in the NJABS (New >>>>> Jersey Association of Blind Students) and also heavily active in a >>>>> highschool >>>>> program in NJ called LEAD. >>>>> I ment to subscribe to this list a long time ago. Also, seeing >>>>> how >>>>> involved all students were in Washington last week, I thought it >>>>> would >>>>> be a great idea to join the list and interact with fello students >>>>> around the country. For those who were their in Washing, at the >>>>> NABS >>>>> meeting, I represented New Jersey. >>>>> So that's pretty much Daniel Romero. IF you want to know more, >>>>> you >>>>> know where to contact me. Take care guys! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> >>>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail .com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gm ail.com > > > Anjelina > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gm ail.com Anjelina ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:24 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, Jordan wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard > good things about them although those individuals were not NFB > members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. > If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part > time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational > activities for students; students can do what they want outside of > class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are > one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a > room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland > sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be > comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of > class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want > to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >> path to independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left >> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing >> what you need to do and never mind what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the >> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can >> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >> skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision >> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and >> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively >> accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >> know the benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of >> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, >> when it comes to choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of >> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for >> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived >> away from home. I have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:37:42 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, On 8 February 2011 14:18, wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard > good things about them although those individuals were not NFB > members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. > If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part > time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational > activities for students; students can do what they want outside of > class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are > one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a > room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland > sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be > comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of > class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want > to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >> path to independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left >> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing >> what you need to do and never mind what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the >> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can >> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >> skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision >> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and >> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively >> accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >> know the benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of >> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, >> when it comes to choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of >> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for >> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived >> away from home. I have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:31:35 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi all, > > Here's my two cents. > I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people > need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also > believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a > center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type > program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I > am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always > learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving > upon the skills we already have. > > With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with > "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has > the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity > they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They > simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other > community, and use the skills they have learned while they were > growing up. > > I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the > skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the > best way to learn something is to teach that something. > > I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out > of your comfort zone. Try to If one goes out of state for trainning > they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, > farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protectinve. If > you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This > will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will > build confidence in you. > > I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these > skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen > programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go > blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right > into the real world so that they can go to college right after high > school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and > contributing to society at large. > > To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. > > Your thoughts? > Respectfully, > Jordan wrote: > >> Hi Kirt, >> Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using >> apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard >> good things about them although those individuals were not NFB >> members. >> >> The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. >> If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part >> time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. >> Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational >> activities for students; students can do what they want outside of >> class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. >> >> Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are >> one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have >> a room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. >> Cleveland sight center has less training time like three months so it >> may not be comprehensive. From what I heard there are no >> restrictions outside of class as to where you can go. Good luck with >> your decission. Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM >> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> >> Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, >> I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I >> want to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training >> centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months >> and I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest >> any other high quality centers out there that push the same standard >> of independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be >> a slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try >> and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned >> activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time >> and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was >> great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the >> case. Thoughts?, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Bridgit, >>> >>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >>> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >>> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >>> >>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >>> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >>> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >>> path to independence. >>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but >>> the >>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >>> >>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >>> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >>> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >>> Center alumni that makes >>> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always first in >>> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never mind >>> what >>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but >>> no, >>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >>> who >>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >>> uncertain >>> economies. >>> >>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >>> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >>> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >>> prepared to achieve the same >>> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your own >>> across a >>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. >>> Maybe >>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince >>> a >>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >>> is >>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, >>> you'll >>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >>> been >>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >>> all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >>> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >>> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >>> training center to attend. >>> >>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in >>> the process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you >>> can do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason >>> NFB centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >>> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >>> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >>> skills. >>> >>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >>> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >>> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >>> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >>> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >>> >>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >>> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >>> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you >>> can do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my >>> vision at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when >>> people say sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way >>> this comes across is that vision is still vital to be truly >>> independent, and that when you have no useable vision, you can not >>> effectively accomplish things. >>> >>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >>> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >>> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >>> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >>> know the benefits. >>> >>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >>> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way >>> to prove ourselves to the world. >>> >>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >>> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >>> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >>> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >>> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >>> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >>> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >>> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >>> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >>> >>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >>> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >>> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >>> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >>> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >>> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind >>> differently? >>> >>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >>> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in >>> life that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >>> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, >>> of course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, >>> then, when it comes to choosing a training center. >>> >>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >>> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >>> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >>> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >>> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >>> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >>> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >>> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >>> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >>> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >>> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >>> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >>> >>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training >>> or the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing >>> my vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do >>> things, I just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept >>> what people told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do >>> a lot of things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before >>> I knew of the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, >>> leaving for training, in a whole other state, was the first time I >>> truly lived away from home. I have not been back since. >>> >>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >>> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >>> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >>> >>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >>> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >>> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >>> potential. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydu >>> de%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411% >> 40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Jordan Richardson > President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to > repair broken men." ~*Frederick > Douglass* html> > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:29:37 -0700 From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] training centers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I would vote for CCB. BLIND Inc is good too. I have a friend or two who graduated from BLIND Inc. Not a bad bunch, the BLIND Inc-ers are. But CCB people are good and I think our director, Julie Deden is the best. Beth On 2/8/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello. > I am currently in high school but I'm thinking of things I need to do > in terms of my training. > > Thus far I went to BLIND INC. for one summer. > > But I think I need more training then jus one summer. > > However, both CBVH and my parrents don't seem to like the idea of me > doing it again. > > Would there be any advantage to me going back to a center this year? > > Or should I simply wait till I graduate and go to the full 9 month > program? > > Is it worth it since I already went to a youth training program. > > Also, what is, in your experience the best training center? > I already attended BLIND INC., so I'm familiar with them, > but am open to other ideas. > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:40:48 -0600 From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, Here's my two cents. I am of the belief that trainning should fit the person. Some people need a trainning center as an adult, and others do not. I also believe that trainning does not end when a person graduates from a center--whether it be graduating from some summers of a buddy-type program and a couple years of a teen program, or an adult program. I am of the belief that trainning never REALLY ends. We are always learning new ways to do things, and always practicing and improving upon the skills we already have. With this said, I believe that if a blind child was raised with "normal" expectations, attended buddy programs, teen programs, and has the right possitive attitude, confidence in themselves, and maturity they do not necessarily need a trainning center as an adult. They simply need to get out into their community, get out into some other community, and use the skills they have learned while they were growing up. I believe that another important factor in trainning is teaching the skills to the blind children who come after them. It is said that the best way to learn something is to teach that something. I also believe that another aspect to "good trainning" is to get out of your comfort zone. If one goes out of state for trainning they will receive better trainning because they are farther from home, farther from their parents who can sometimes be very protective. If you live in Colorado, go to LCB, BLIND Inc or BISM, for example. This will force you to be on your own and to rely on yourself; it will build confidence in you. I will further add that if we can introduce blind children to these skills at a younger age, then get them in buddy programs, then teen programs, we can use adult programs to focus more on people who go blind later in life. This will also help push blind children right into the real world so that they can go to college right after high school, like their sighted peers, and start earning money and contributing to society at large. To summarize, I believe that the trainning should fit the individual. Your thoughts? Respectfully, On 8 February 2011 14:18, wrote: > Hi Kirt, > Just so you know more options out there, there are two centers using > apartment style living. Both centers have blind staff and I've heard > good things about them although those individuals were not NFB > members. > > The Hatlen center in CA is an option. They have classes one on one. > If you finish some classes and have time, you can go to college part > time or get some work experience on days you don't have classes. > Students can stay a year there. They also organize recreational > activities for students; students can do what they want outside of > class and are encouraged to go have fun in the city. > > Next the Cleveland sight center in Ohio has apartments too. Some are > one bedroom efficiencies and others are two bedroom where you'd have a > room mate. You have to maiintain the apartment of course. Cleveland > sight center has less training time like three months so it may not be > comprehensive. From what I heard there are no restrictions outside of > class as to where you can go. Good luck with your decission. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:58 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > > > Bridget, Joe, Darian and all, > I'm pretty sure I'm going to a training center next year. And I want > to find one of the best. I'm thinking one of the NFB training > centers, as I've been living in a dorm for the past 6 or so months and > I think I'm ready for that adjustment. But can you guys suggest any > other high quality centers out there that push the same standard of > independence? If they have some blind staff, that would maybe be a > slight plus for me, too. Also, I'd prefer a place that doesn't try > and regulate your time outside of the classroom and planned > activities. In other words, I want my free time to be my free time > and, in the teen training program I went to in my state (which was > great for me and perfect for my needs at the time), that wasn't the > case. Thoughts?, > Kirt > > On 2/8/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Bridgit, >> >> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >> training at a Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because >> there are some of us with a slightly dissenting view. >> >> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I was >> more interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >> interested in being forced into what other people felt was the right >> path to independence. >> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my first >> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a priority, but the >> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. >> >> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me for >> choosing not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone >> else's model of training. There is a very distinct culture among >> Center alumni that makes people not part of it feel a little left >> out. Now, I am always first in line to preach the line about doing >> what you need to do and never mind what >> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very little >> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone to NFB >> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal expectations, but no, >> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or wants >> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch professionals >> who >> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable expectation of >> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >> economies. >> >> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue training >> and am positive I would benefit from a training program. I think >> people like me who chose not to enroll in a program should be >> prepared to achieve the same levels of proficiency with the >> disadvantage of doing it on your own across a >> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself across >> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, though I >> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about woodwork. Maybe >> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll convince a >> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. Success >> is >> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a Center, you'll >> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to work even >> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for you and >> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I would have >> been >> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I read >> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure >> >> Dear List, >> >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training center to attend. >> >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can >> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >> skills. >> >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >> >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision >> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and >> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively >> accomplish things. >> >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >> know the benefits. >> >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove ourselves to the world. >> >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >> >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? >> >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of >> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, >> when it comes to choosing a training center. >> >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >> >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of >> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for >> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived >> away from home. I have not been back since. >> >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >> >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydud >> e%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ~*Frederick Douglass* ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 12 ************************************** From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 9 07:30:30 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 01:30:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I still encourage training, but let me amend my argument. I view most training centers as facilities for newly blind people or blind people who did not receive proper training as a child. If you possess the proper skills and have confidence, I say go for your goals. Taking six to nine months off to learn skills you already know and gain confidence you already possess, does not seem like the best option. Again, I speak from my personal experience, but many blind people do not have a positive and strong sense of confidence instilled in them. The skills mean little without nerves backing them up. A training center allows one to experience independent living in a controled environment. Some may be able to pack up and take their skills to an independent living situation, but many lack this ability. Training centers, like the NFB centers, provide this vital part of the equation. Centers that offer extra curricular activities are simply trying to demonstrate all the things blind people can do. It is a sneaky way to educate us on our own abilities. Choose what is best for you, but remember, what we want, and what is best for us, do not always coincide. Bridgit From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 13:06:57 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 05:06:57 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, Joe: I don't think your first reason for not attending a training center was invalid at all. how one values their education is a very important thing, and I much appreciate and respect your dicision not to take on something that takes a chunk of time out of your life unless you really wanted it. Re: hatlin-- I'll simply put it like this... I know plenty of people who have gone to hatlin and gained some self-confidence and have gone on to live on their own. However, I'm not very impressed with the training set-up from what I have heard from many alumni of the program. Training is pipically a year, and while you have blind role models as staff, you don't have the sleepshade training, the equil and intensive focus on the core skills of blindness, and most important bi-product to me I don't get the sense that they are on the road to acheving what they truly desire in life. Now granted, that last partis subjective to some degree, but I think you can see it in someone's eyes, hear it in their voice that they have a goal and that if they are going to be stopped in completing it, it's because they themselves have made that dicision on their own terms and not anyone else's. So, I wouldn't suggest hatlin, though it is right down the road from san francisco and berkely, and we can always use a few students out here :), nor would I really suggest the orientation center for the blind out here (seems like OCB has really become a shell of it's self over the years). This all of course is depending on what you want. If you want the NFB training center expirience, I would go for something like B.L.I.N.D. Inc, LCB or CCB. I would also find out a little more about training centers in other states that take on the same philosiphy. I have a dear friend who went to a center in nabraska, I know of a center In Verginia, BISM is in Maryland, the new mexico comission is out there, there is a center in Hawaii, and of course Iowa can't be left out. I would get a hold of people I know of who went to these places, or contact these centers if I was on the search for some serious high-quality training. thanks, Darian On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > I still encourage training, but let me amend my argument. I view most > training centers as facilities for newly blind people or blind people > who did not receive proper training as a child. If you possess the > proper skills and have confidence, I say go for your goals. > > Taking six to nine months off to learn skills you already know and gain > confidence you already possess, does not seem like the best option. > > Again, I speak from my personal experience, but many blind people do not > have a positive and strong sense of confidence instilled in them. The > skills mean little without nerves backing them up. > > A training center allows one to experience independent living in a > controled environment. Some may be able to pack up and take their > skills to an independent living situation, but many lack this ability. > Training centers, like the NFB centers, provide this vital part of the > equation. > > Centers that offer extra curricular activities are simply trying to > demonstrate all the things blind people can do. It is a sneaky way to > educate us on our own abilities. > > Choose what is best for you, but remember, what we want, and what is > best for us, do not always coincide. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 13:27:43 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 05:27:43 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: one more thing about training centers... I hear that the traditional training centers often see students returnto the center for more training even after they've completed a full term . It's important to point out that the federation believes, not that you will remember everything you were ever taught while at an NFB training center, or one based upon structured discovery methodology. What is believed is that if you really apply yourself you will truly understand and believe that blindness need not be the end of the road. could it be the beginning, could it be a continuation? (I'll let you listers argue that point for me * smile*). at these NFB training centers, you have blind people teaching you everything you are expected to know, you learn the philisophical and the practical. and you learn this, within the six to nine months that you are there. yes, these centers believe that once is enough as training goes, yet some do go back for additional training, but those numbers are very small as compared otherwise. Besides, who want's to spent 12 to 18 months somewhere when you know you have a life to lead and plenty of oppertunities to use those skills you've learned, anyway? Darian On 2/9/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hello all, > > Joe: I don't think your first reason for not attending a training > center was invalid at all. how one values their education is a very > important thing, and I much appreciate and respect your dicision not > to take on something that takes a chunk of time out of your life > unless you really wanted it. > Re: hatlin-- I'll simply put it like this... > I know plenty of people who have gone to hatlin and gained some > self-confidence and have gone on to live on their own. However, I'm > not very impressed with the training set-up from what I have heard > from many alumni of the program. Training is pipically a year, and > while you have blind role models as staff, you don't have the > sleepshade training, the equil and intensive focus on the core skills > of blindness, and most important bi-product to me I don't get the > sense that they are on the road to acheving what they truly desire > in life. > Now granted, that last partis subjective to some degree, but I > think you can see it in someone's eyes, hear it in their voice that > they have a goal and that if they are going to be stopped in > completing it, it's because they themselves have made that dicision on > their own terms and not anyone else's. > So, I wouldn't suggest hatlin, though it is right down the road from > san francisco and berkely, and we can always use a few students out > here :), nor would I really suggest the orientation center for the > blind out here (seems like OCB has really become a shell of it's self > over the years). This all of course is depending on what you want. > If you want the NFB training center expirience, I would go for > something like B.L.I.N.D. Inc, LCB or CCB. I would also find out a > little more about training centers in other states that take on the > same philosiphy. I have a dear friend who went to a center in > nabraska, I know of a center In Verginia, BISM is in Maryland, the > new mexico comission is out there, there is a center in Hawaii, and of > course Iowa can't be left out. I would get a hold of people I know of > who went to these places, or contact these centers if I was on the > search for some serious high-quality training. > thanks, > Darian > > > On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> I still encourage training, but let me amend my argument. I view most >> training centers as facilities for newly blind people or blind people >> who did not receive proper training as a child. If you possess the >> proper skills and have confidence, I say go for your goals. >> >> Taking six to nine months off to learn skills you already know and gain >> confidence you already possess, does not seem like the best option. >> >> Again, I speak from my personal experience, but many blind people do not >> have a positive and strong sense of confidence instilled in them. The >> skills mean little without nerves backing them up. >> >> A training center allows one to experience independent living in a >> controled environment. Some may be able to pack up and take their >> skills to an independent living situation, but many lack this ability. >> Training centers, like the NFB centers, provide this vital part of the >> equation. >> >> Centers that offer extra curricular activities are simply trying to >> demonstrate all the things blind people can do. It is a sneaky way to >> educate us on our own abilities. >> >> Choose what is best for you, but remember, what we want, and what is >> best for us, do not always coincide. >> >> Bridgit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 16:40:51 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:40:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <8CFDA442643F44D0A301F591B25BBEC1@Cptr233> Joshua, You are NOT certainly the only one on this list who sees the importance to Braille. I am a non-traditional student, which means I am just older than most students on this list. As a young child I learned Braille, I hated it. Then I lost my vision, and I needed the Braille. Now as a student, I could not get through a day of school or school work with out knowing, reading and or using Braille. My math textbook was Braille by the college, and it has been the best thing ever. I would have to say that there is that "population" out there who does want their e-books, and computers to do all there reading. But in some cases using a rfbandd book, or a nls, or bookshare book, is just as helpful. I use all those things. I would say a majority of the NFB people see the importance to Braille. So keep on talking to people about Braille and about how the NFB has and will continue to advance the use of Braille. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua Lester Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: > Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing > apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid > professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are > volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. > > Dave > > At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen ts.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5854 (20110207) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5855 (20110208) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5857 (20110208) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5859 (20110209) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5859 (20110209) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 17:16:51 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 10:16:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text In-Reply-To: <8CFDA442643F44D0A301F591B25BBEC1@Cptr233> References: <97A75AB4A37D43BBA81F1C83FC0CDECE@OwnerPC> <8CFDA442643F44D0A301F591B25BBEC1@Cptr233> Message-ID: Ashley, Yes, unfortunately, the bindings get cut off. But, for me, it's a small price to pay to have my books on time, in my prefered formats. Mine puts them on a secure internet server and gives me the password for my personal folder, then I can download them and do what I want with them. I get pretty much everything on time. All the best, Kirt On 2/9/11, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Joshua, > > You are NOT certainly the only one on this list who sees the importance to > Braille. I am a non-traditional student, which means I am just older than > most students on this list. As a young child I learned Braille, I hated it. > Then I lost my vision, and I needed the Braille. Now as a student, I could > not get through a day of school or school work with out knowing, reading and > or using Braille. My math textbook was Braille by the college, and it has > been the best thing ever. > > I would have to say that there is that "population" out there who does want > their e-books, and computers to do all there reading. But in some cases > using a rfbandd book, or a nls, or bookshare book, is just as helpful. I use > all those things. > > I would say a majority of the NFB people see the importance to Braille. So > keep on talking to people about Braille and about how the NFB has and will > continue to advance the use of Braille. > > Marsha > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joshua Lester > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Obtaining electronic text > > I know the RFBND readers are volunteers. I appreciate all that they > do, but the last 5 or 6 recordings of textbooks haven't been their > best. They used to be better. The best book they recorded was my > Freshman English 1 book. I still believe that Braille is the answer. > I'm probably the only conservative NFB member on this list. I joined > the NFB last year, but I'm old school when it comes to Braille, and I > always will be. It's Braille or nothing at all! It bothers me that > most blind people that have just lost their sight in the past 8 to 15 > years don't know Braille. That's in Arkansas. They won't take classes > at the Arkansas School for the Blind, or Lions World Services for the > Blind, they'd rather have computers read everything to them. I like > Jaws, and all of these computer programs, but Braille literacy should > come first. Maybe, I should join NAPUB, as well. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/7/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Joshua, when you compare RFB&D and NLS readers you are comparing >> apples and oranges. NLS readers, almost exclusively are paid >> professionals, actors, radio and TV people, etc. RFB&D readers are >> volunteers, who by and large don't do badly. >> >> Dave >> >> At 02:26 PM 2/6/2011, you wrote: >>>I don't know who posted about the RFBD books. I found it funny that >>>the narrators keep tripping up on words. Even in my history and >>>Geography books, they have so many "ums," and "urs," that it's >>>laughable. They need better readers. The Library of Congress narrators >>>weren't that bad. Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen > ts.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5854 (20110207) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5855 (20110208) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5857 (20110208) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5859 (20110209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5859 (20110209) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From TAnnis at afb.net Wed Feb 9 19:38:09 2011 From: TAnnis at afb.net (Tara Annis) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F450AC4@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com> I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at college. I attended the school for the blind and also took some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like to provide some insight. I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, but this is really rare from my observations. Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. Some observations: 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, why have someone keep track of your meds? 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated like them. Go to bed when you feel like it. 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to have a sighted person to come along to help out. 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. Yet, they never told blind people this fact. 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel bad so that is why they make up these lies. 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person has low self esteem, and needs counseling. CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just came to CCB for advanced skills training. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 19:51:01 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:51:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <4d52f052.467bdc0a.4f42.15b9@mx.google.com> Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I agree with you on all points. At a center in Daytona Beach, Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of rules such as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by wing, and there was no question about dating. At CCB, blind people are treated like people. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Tara Annis References: <4d52f052.467bdc0a.4f42.15b9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear Beth, Tara and all, Is it hard to get involved with the community outside the center? Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make sense. I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in mind I'm not calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the training centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind people. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me. I'm probably not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a blind person...simply because most of my friends aren't blind. So, with that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get involved in the community at large, at whichever center I decide is right for me. So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I choose to spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer programs, other friends I might find outside the center, etc? Because I think the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in a "blind bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with center people all the time, and miss out on whatever other opportunities I might find living away from home for such a long time. Don't get me wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a great time. But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on my own like this. Thoughts, anyone? Kirt On 2/9/11, Beth wrote: > Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I > agree with you on all points. At a center in Daytona Beach, > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of rules such > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by wing, and there > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind people are treated > like people. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tara Annis To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at > college. I attended the school for the blind and also took > some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like > to provide some insight. > I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above > average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, > but this is really rare from my observations. > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had > taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought > blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. > Some observations: > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication > you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, > why have someone keep track of your meds? > > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated > like them. > Go to bed when you feel like it. > > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. > You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to > have a sighted person to come along to help out. > > > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other > training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into > their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. > > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they > don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel > bad so that is why they make up these lies. > > > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. > CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just > came to CCB for advanced skills training. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 21:14:14 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 14:14:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <4d5303d3.8937e30a.722c.3770@mx.google.com> Kirt, I don't think you'll be discouraged. Julie Deden and the crew at CCB would highly encourage people to get involved with communities. I am thinking of doing some stuff with Americorps Vista if possible and maybe getting involved with starting my own nonprofit that helps not just blind people, but refugees and women as well. I'd help people who need it. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I agree with you on all points. At a center in Daytona Beach, Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of rules such as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by wing, and there was no question about dating. At CCB, blind people are treated like people. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Tara Annis Hi all, How do you get the texts and are they on time? Do you get them on CD? Word format? My counselor tells me the publisher doesn’t do cds, they do links only and therefore once I get it I have to download it. Groan. CDs where you put it in the computer are much easier. Ashley From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Feb 9 22:08:02 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:08:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Bookwormahb, Wrightsville prison in Arkansas, put my books into Braille, when I was in school. They used to be on time, but in 2003, (when I entered high school,) they were always late. I'm talking about, being halfway through the semester, before I got my books. RFBND's books, are always on time. I'd like to know, (speaking of books,) if NLS does college-levil textbooks. Blessings, Joshua On 2/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > How do you get the texts and are they on time? Do you get them on CD? Word > format? > My counselor tells me the publisher doesn’t do cds, they do links only and > therefore once I get it I have to download it. > Groan. CDs where you put it in the computer are much easier. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Wed Feb 9 22:32:03 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 17:32:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <4d52f052.467bdc0a.4f42.15b9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000701cbc8a9$2d6f7ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> Why are blind people discouraged from dating and treated like little kids at some centers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the skills, but > the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I agree with you on all > points. At a center in Daytona Beach, Florida, there were nurses, old > creeps,, and lots of rules such as the lights out rule. Sexes were > separated by wing, and there was no question about dating. At CCB, blind > people are treated like people. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tara Annis To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at college. I > attended the school for the blind and also took some classes at a local > association of the blind, so would like to provide some insight. > I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above average > skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, but this is really > rare from my observations. > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk long > distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I thought people could > only walk routes that the O&M instructor had taught them, and the route > would be a mile or less. I thought blind people needed sighted guide > for any new place they visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow > someone. > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. > Some observations: > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication you > took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, why have > someone keep track of your meds? > > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to class on > time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you aren't breaking the > law. You're adults, so you should be treated like them. > Go to bed when you feel like it. > > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. You just > walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure people had a sighted > guide before beginning. You didn't need to have a sighted person to come > along to help out. > > > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other training > centers, the instructors would never be caught using a cane or reading > braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when traveling with blind > people, so the public couldn't look into their eyes. They did not like > being stared at by the public. Yet, they never told blind people this > fact. > > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can sometimes be > cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have witnessed at other > centers staff outright lying to blind people telling them that no one can > tell they are blind and that they don't need a cane, since they get around > so well. Yet, the people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run > into obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel bad > so that is why they make up these lies. > > > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person has low > self esteem, and needs counseling. > CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate level, > already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just came to CCB for > advanced skills training. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Feb 9 22:35:44 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 17:35:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure In-Reply-To: <5fGe1g0082PutTY05fGftP@netzero.net> References: <5fGe1g0082PutTY05fGftP@netzero.net> Message-ID: > Humberto: You can also talk to your NFB chapter's President--see if you can get funding for your center that way. On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:16 PM, humberto wrote: > Hey, thanks for the little training lesson you have just posted here, but I am sure I will seek other alternatives. And no, I am not a US citizen. I came from Mexico just 5 years ago. That's why my State agency just cannot provide with services. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 22:09:13 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > >> Humberto, >> Curious which country? Also, why can't your state agency help? > I think you >> have to be a US citizen; maybe that is why you can't get > services. >> Many states have a lighthouse for the blind. Its not nfb > philosophy or >> expectations. But services from them would teach you some skills > like >> laundry. >> Another idea is if you have blind friends from NFB or other > affiliations, >> maybe they can teach you some; get together and learn some > things. Your >> parents may not expect anything. Do you have siblings? Maybe > they would >> have more faith and belief in you. Get them to show you things. >> Cleaning is done a lot like the sighted people do it. In fact > that would be >> a great discussion here. >> Have someone take your hand and show you the cleaning motion. > Take a >> cleaning tool such as a sponge and go in a systematic pattern > such as top to >> bottom; over lap the strokes as you clean. To clean you use the > same tools >> and matterials as everyone else would. >> For laundry, if you read braille, have someone help you label the > buttons in >> braille. Use initials such as M for medium and for temperatures: > C for Cold, >> H for hot. Then measure out detergent; you can feel the amount in > the cup. >> Then after clothes are in, just wash. >> Do not use bleach except for white clothes. Generally to keep > clothes from >> fading, wash in cold water. >> Another tip is before drying your clothes, clean out the lent > filter! >> Clothes generally dry for an hour. If not dried after that, put > them in for >> another 15 minutes and then check them. >> Also if you have socks of different colors, you have to feel them > to match >> them in pairs. If you cannot feel them to match say a blue with > its >> coresponding blue sock, then you need another way. Safety pins > will keep >> your socks hooked together in pairs. >> Also before washing pants, check the pockets to ensure you don't > have >> tissues or other objects in them such as coins. >> Its easy to take off clothes and forget to remove little items > such as >> these. > >> Of the skills you mentioned, laundry is probably the easiest to > learn. >> I learned some about cleaning at our state center and we reviewed > laundry >> but I already knew most of that. >> While a center may be the best solution, if you cannot get the > financial >> funding it may not be possible. So meanwhile seek out other > sources. >> Good luck. > >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: humberto >> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 9:30 PM >> To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > >> Hello all: > >> First of all, I think I, personally, would be benefitted from >> going to a training center. I think the reasons why are: >> 1. Although my parents are proud for the hard work I've put into >> by going to school and getting great grades, and they support me >> quite into the same matter, their blindness philosophy is not >> mine, and it's not what I want out of my life. My Mom, as I grew >> up, did not teach me any skills of independence, like washing my >> own clothes, not being afraid of the stove, cleaning, and even >> she thought, that using a knife to cut apples was not possible >> for me. Then again, this is when I was little, and you know, the >> belief system really sets in when you are a kid. (If you know >> what I mean, anyways). Not until I came into this wonderful >> country that stands for freedom for all, I discovered the NFB. >> And, due to my parents' quite low expectations, I am now 20 years >> old, and still don't know how to do those things I have mentioned >> above. >> 2. I really want to go to college. So, college experience >> require a lot of independent experiences, So, I want to attend a >> training center. And with the fact, that I cannot get help from >> my state agency for the blind, it is quite a challenge to qualify >> for a training center. But anyways, just my 40 cents. > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Date sent: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 14:31:02 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > >>> Bridgit, > >>> This is one of the best cases I've seen laid out for pursuing >> training at a >>> Center. You're not preaching to the choir, because there are >> some of us >>> with a slightly dissenting view. > >>> I initially rejected the NFB training for two reasons. First, I >> was more >>> interested in continuing college, and second, I was not at all >> interested in >>> being forced into what other people felt was the right path to >> independence. >>> Now that I'm a little older, I can appreciate the stupidity of my >> first >>> reason. If you want something bad enough, you make it a >> priority, but the >>> second reason, to me, still holds a little water. > >>> I was not interested in condescending people looking down on me >> for choosing >>> not to take 6 to 9 months out of my life to fit someone else's >> model of >>> training. There is a very distinct culture among Center alumni >> that makes >>> people not part of it feel a little left out. Now, I am always >> first in >>> line to preach the line about doing what you need to do and never >> mind what >>> anyone else says, but from a marketing perspective, it makes very >> little >>> sense to make it appear as though NFB training is a cornerstone >> to NFB >>> philosophy. Yes, the NFB centers feature phenomenal >> expectations, but no, >>> these centers will never be able to reach everyone who needs or >> wants >>> training. A flexible plan ought to be exercised to catch >> professionals who >>> would like NFB-style training without the unreasonable >> expectation of >>> stopping employment for an extended period of time, especially in >> uncertain >>> economies. > >>> After all that babble, my point is this: I did not pursue >> training and am >>> positive I would benefit from a training program. I think people >> like me >>> who chose not to enroll in a program should be prepared to >> achieve the same >>> levels of proficiency with the disadvantage of doing it on your >> own across a >>> longer period of time. You have to commit to pushing yourself >> across >>> multiple fronts to maintain confidence. I feel I've done that, >> though I >>> have not found someone to teach me a thing or three about >> woodwork. Maybe >>> later when I have the sufficient income to pitch the idea, I'll >> convince a >>> Center to let me train for a summer at one of their facilities. >> Success is >>> possible whether you go to a Center or not. If you go to a >> Center, you'll >>> have to work hard. If you go at it on your own, you'll have to >> work even >>> harder, but, make the decision that is truly most beneficial for >> you and >>> commit to it 100% after you've chosen. I personally think I >> would have been >>> a little more swayed in favor of the training center route had I >> read >>> something like the post below when I graduated from high school. > >>> Best, > >>> Joe > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >> Ewing > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:41 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > >>> Dear List, > >>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel >>> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training >>> center to attend. > >>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in >> the >>> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you >> can do >>> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers >>> and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, >> for >>> years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >>> independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. > >>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but >> these >>> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why >> people >>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can >> learn the >>> skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. >>> Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >>> training course and they lack the confidence and ability that >> most gain >>> after at least a six month stint. > >>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why >> people are >>> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense >>> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do >>> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my >> vision at >>> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep >>> shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is >>> that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when >> you >>> have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish >> things. > >>> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >>> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have >> never tried >>> something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >>> because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core >> blind >>> people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >>> benefits. > >>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods >>> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove >>> ourselves to the world. > >>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment >> scenerio may >>> not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I >>> also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use >> those >>> skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right >> away. >>> Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >>> training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the >> Blind, >>> where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing >> is on >>> campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find >> out >>> what you really are able to do. > >>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good >> training >>> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing >>> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >>> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want >> to spend >>> time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four >> years, >>> or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do >> we >>> view training centers for the blind differently? > >>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we >> are and >>> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that >>> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? >> Do we >>> not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course >> not. We >>> should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it >> comes to >>> choosing a training center. > >>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a >> message that >>> blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I >>> have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people >> not >>> reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they >>> can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most >> other >>> agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of >> independence, >>> and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like >> many >>> other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened >> our own >>> training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers >> leaves >>> ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, >> though, >>> leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are >> ready to >>> face the world. > >>> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of >> training or >>> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing >> my >>> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do >> things, I >>> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what >> people >>> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. >>> I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the >> NFB or >>> any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, >> in a >>> whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from >> home. I >>> have not been back since. > >>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). >>> I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and >>> I owe this to a positive training center. > >>> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this >> topic. As >>> blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds >>> too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. > >>> Bridgit > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> 5369%40netzero.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma > hb%40earthlink.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > 5369%40netzero.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 9 22:40:43 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 15:40:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley and all, Personally I like downloading my books better than cds. Mostly that's cause I'm unorganized and proan to lose things...so electronic copies are usually better for me. But that's all personal preference and I guess I can see where a CD could come in handy. On 2/9/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > Bookwormahb, Wrightsville prison in Arkansas, put my books into > Braille, when I was in school. They used to be on time, but in 2003, > (when I entered high school,) they were always late. I'm talking > about, being halfway through the semester, before I got my books. > RFBND's books, are always on time. I'd like to know, (speaking of > books,) if NLS does college-levil textbooks. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> How do you get the texts and are they on time? Do you get them on CD? Word >> format? >> My counselor tells me the publisher doesn’t do cds, they do links only and >> therefore once I get it I have to download it. >> Groan. CDs where you put it in the computer are much easier. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 9 22:52:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 17:52:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: A cd you can put into any computer with windows as well. I can click on individual chapters; I graduated in 2009 and that is how it was done; I don't know if publishers are changing it now, to tell students to download books, or what. I don't know if it’s the college I go to or what it is. -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Ashley and all, Personally I like downloading my books better than cds. Mostly that's cause I'm unorganized and proan to lose things...so electronic copies are usually better for me. But that's all personal preference and I guess I can see where a CD could come in handy. On 2/9/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > Bookwormahb, Wrightsville prison in Arkansas, put my books into > Braille, when I was in school. They used to be on time, but in 2003, > (when I entered high school,) they were always late. I'm talking > about, being halfway through the semester, before I got my books. > RFBND's books, are always on time. I'd like to know, (speaking of > books,) if NLS does college-levil textbooks. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> How do you get the texts and are they on time? Do you get them on CD? >> Word >> format? >> My counselor tells me the publisher doesn’t do cds, they do links only >> and >> therefore once I get it I have to download it. >> Groan. CDs where you put it in the computer are much easier. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 9 22:54:57 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 17:54:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <5C30CCCFF2554289911ED3B59DEA26F1@OwnerPC> Joshua, RFB books are always on time; the CDs are portable too or the downloads are if you put them on a vr stream! Go RFB! NLS does not do college books. Still haven't gotten a electronic book, third week of class. I wondedered if other schools get books on time to students. Frustrated. Ashley Bramlett -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts Bookwormahb, Wrightsville prison in Arkansas, put my books into Braille, when I was in school. They used to be on time, but in 2003, (when I entered high school,) they were always late. I'm talking about, being halfway through the semester, before I got my books. RFBND's books, are always on time. I'd like to know, (speaking of books,) if NLS does college-levil textbooks. Blessings, Joshua On 2/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > How do you get the texts and are they on time? Do you get them on CD? Word > format? > My counselor tells me the publisher doesn’t do cds, they do links only and > therefore once I get it I have to download it. > Groan. CDs where you put it in the computer are much easier. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Feb 9 22:59:09 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:59:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <5C30CCCFF2554289911ED3B59DEA26F1@OwnerPC> References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> <5C30CCCFF2554289911ED3B59DEA26F1@OwnerPC> Message-ID: www.bookshare.org. BTW, Ashley, I sent you an E-mail about my college, and the technology. You didn't reply to it. Please read it. Blessings, Joshua On 2/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, RFB books are always on time; the CDs are portable too or the > downloads are if you put them on a vr stream! Go RFB! > NLS does not do college books. Still haven't gotten a electronic book, > third week of class. I wondedered if other schools get books on time to > students. > Frustrated. > > Ashley Bramlett > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > Bookwormahb, Wrightsville prison in Arkansas, put my books into > Braille, when I was in school. They used to be on time, but in 2003, > (when I entered high school,) they were always late. I'm talking > about, being halfway through the semester, before I got my books. > RFBND's books, are always on time. I'd like to know, (speaking of > books,) if NLS does college-levil textbooks. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> How do you get the texts and are they on time? Do you get them on CD? Word >> format? >> My counselor tells me the publisher doesn’t do cds, they do links only and >> therefore once I get it I have to download it. >> Groan. CDs where you put it in the computer are much easier. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thu Feb 10 02:27:22 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 18:27:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Kirt, Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two sense. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM > Dear Beth, Tara and all, >   Is it hard to get involved with the community > outside the center? > Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make > sense. >   I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in > mind I'm not > calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the > training > centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind > people. > There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for > me.  I'm probably > not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a > blind > person...simply because most of my friends aren't > blind.  So, with > that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get > involved in the > community at large, at whichever center I decide is right > for me. > So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I > choose to > spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer > programs, > other friends I might find outside the center, etc?  > Because I think > the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in > a "blind > bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with > center > people all the time, and miss out on whatever other > opportunities I > might find living away from home for such a long > time.  Don't get me > wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a > great time. > But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on > my own like > this.  Thoughts, anyone? >   Kirt > > On 2/9/11, Beth > wrote: > > Training centers are a good way for blind people to > learn the > > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it > easier.  Tara, I > > agree with you on all points.  At a center in > Daytona Beach, > > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of > rules such > > as the lights out rule.  Sexes were separated by > wing, and there > > was no question about dating.  At CCB, blind > people are treated > > like people. > > Beth > > > >  ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tara Annis > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 > > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > > I attended the Colorado Center program between > semesters at > > college.    I attended the school for the > blind and also took > > some classes at a local association of the blind, so > would like > > to provide some insight. > > I do agree that blind people can be successful and > have above > > average skills, even though they do  not go to > the NFB center, > > but this is really rare from my observations. > > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people > could walk > > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten > miles.  I > > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M > instructor had > > taught them, and the route would be a mile or > less.  I thought > > blind  people needed sighted  guide for any > new place they > > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. > > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal > grill. > > Some observations: > > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the > medication > > you took.  If you are supposed to be living in > the real world, > > why have someone keep track of your meds? > > > > 2. There were no lights out at CCB.  As long as > you showed up to > > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long > as you > > aren't breaking the law.  You're adults, so you > should be treated > > like them. > > Go to bed when you feel like it. > > > > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go > for lunch. > > You just  walked out the door.  You didn't > need to make sure > > people had a sighted guide before beginning.  You > didn't need to > > have a sighted person to come along to help out. > > > > > > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of > it. At other > > training centers, the instructors would never be > caught using a > > cane or reading braille.  Sighted people wore > dark glasses when > > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't > look into > > their eyes.  They did  not like being stared > at by the  public. > > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. > > > > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the > public can > > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand > blindness.  I have > > witnessed at  other centers staff outright lying > to blind people > > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and > that they > > don't need a cane, since they get around  so > well.  Yet, the > > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run > into > > obstacles.  The instructors do not want the blind > person to feel > > bad so that is why they make up these lies. > > > > > > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a > blind person > > has low self  esteem, and needs counseling. > > CCB  knew that some of their students are at an > intermediate > > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, > and just > > came to CCB for advanced skills training. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > > sloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Thu Feb 10 02:53:26 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 20:53:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kirt, I'm involved in church groups, and am trying to organize a Southern Gospel quartet. I'm one of 3 blind individuals in my community. All of my friends in my community are sighted. No, you won't be discouraged, at all. I'm not. I also agree, that I won't marry or date a blind person. I don't want to, because of my travel schedule, I need someone who is able to drive, and can help me in unfamiliar areas. Blessings, Joshua On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Kirt, > Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, > but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend > a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get > involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into > common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you > said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are > also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a > sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert > zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two > sense. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >> Is it hard to get involved with the community >> outside the center? >> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >> sense. >> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >> mind I'm not >> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >> training >> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >> people. >> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >> me. I'm probably >> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >> blind >> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >> blind. So, with >> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >> involved in the >> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >> for me. >> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >> choose to >> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >> programs, >> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >> Because I think >> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >> a "blind >> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >> center >> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >> opportunities I >> might find living away from home for such a long >> time. Don't get me >> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >> great time. >> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >> my own like >> this. Thoughts, anyone? >> Kirt >> >> On 2/9/11, Beth >> wrote: >> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >> learn the >> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >> easier. Tara, I >> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >> Daytona Beach, >> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >> rules such >> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >> wing, and there >> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >> people are treated >> > like people. >> > Beth >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Tara Annis > > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >> > > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >> > >> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >> semesters at >> > college. I attended the school for the >> blind and also took >> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >> would like >> > to provide some insight. >> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >> have above >> > average skills, even though they do not go to >> the NFB center, >> > but this is really rare from my observations. >> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >> could walk >> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >> miles. I >> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >> instructor had >> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >> less. I thought >> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >> new place they >> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >> grill. >> > Some observations: >> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >> medication >> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >> the real world, >> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >> > >> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >> you showed up to >> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >> as you >> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >> should be treated >> > like them. >> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >> > >> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >> for lunch. >> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >> need to make sure >> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >> didn't need to >> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >> > >> > >> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >> it. At other >> > training centers, the instructors would never be >> caught using a >> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >> dark glasses when >> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >> look into >> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >> at by the public. >> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >> > >> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >> public can >> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >> blindness. I have >> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >> to blind people >> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >> that they >> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >> well. Yet, the >> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >> into >> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >> person to feel >> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >> > >> > >> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >> blind person >> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >> intermediate >> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >> and just >> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info >> > for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> > sloose%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Thu Feb 10 04:22:31 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 20:22:31 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <64NQ1g00H2PutTY054NR08@netzero.net> Again, just my 90 cents here: You are talking, all about when people are new to blindness, and they attend blindness centers. But how about people who are blind since birth like me? Can we also go to training centers, or is it just for newly blinded people? I'm just Curious; and also I wanted to be a little more fair on this topic so as to provide fair equality for also those who are blind since they were born. thanks anyways. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Tara Annis To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at college. I attended the school for the blind and also took some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like to provide some insight. >I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, but this is really rare from my observations. >Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. >Some observations: >1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, why have someone keep track of your meds? >2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated like them. >Go to bed when you feel like it. >3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to have a sighted person to come along to help out. >4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel bad so that is why they make up these lies. >6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just came to CCB for advanced skills training. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 04:27:43 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:27:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge gap. In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none at all. There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care about the students and their progress even after graduation. The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there was nothing to be so worried about. I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with instructors and by myself. Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning out competent, self-reliant graduates. Arielle On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Kirt, > Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, > but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend > a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get > involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into > common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you > said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are > also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a > sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert > zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two > sense. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>   Is it hard to get involved with the community >> outside the center? >> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >> sense. >>   I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >> mind I'm not >> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >> training >> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >> people. >> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >> me.  I'm probably >> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >> blind >> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >> blind.  So, with >> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >> involved in the >> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >> for me. >> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >> choose to >> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >> programs, >> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >> Because I think >> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >> a "blind >> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >> center >> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >> opportunities I >> might find living away from home for such a long >> time.  Don't get me >> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >> great time. >> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >> my own like >> this.  Thoughts, anyone? >>   Kirt >> >> On 2/9/11, Beth >> wrote: >> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >> learn the >> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >> easier.  Tara, I >> > agree with you on all points.  At a center in >> Daytona Beach, >> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >> rules such >> > as the lights out rule.  Sexes were separated by >> wing, and there >> > was no question about dating.  At CCB, blind >> people are treated >> > like people. >> > Beth >> > >> >  ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Tara Annis > > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >> > > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >> > >> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >> semesters at >> > college.    I attended the school for the >> blind and also took >> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >> would like >> > to provide some insight. >> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >> have above >> > average skills, even though they do  not go to >> the NFB center, >> > but this is really rare from my observations. >> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >> could walk >> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >> miles.  I >> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >> instructor had >> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >> less.  I thought >> > blind  people needed sighted  guide for any >> new place they >> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >> grill. >> > Some observations: >> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >> medication >> > you took.  If you are supposed to be living in >> the real world, >> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >> > >> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB.  As long as >> you showed up to >> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >> as you >> > aren't breaking the law.  You're adults, so you >> should be treated >> > like them. >> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >> > >> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >> for lunch. >> > You just  walked out the door.  You didn't >> need to make sure >> > people had a sighted guide before beginning.  You >> didn't need to >> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >> > >> > >> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >> it. At other >> > training centers, the instructors would never be >> caught using a >> > cane or reading braille.  Sighted people wore >> dark glasses when >> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >> look into >> > their eyes.  They did  not like being stared >> at by the  public. >> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >> > >> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >> public can >> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >> blindness.  I have >> > witnessed at  other centers staff outright lying >> to blind people >> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >> that they >> > don't need a cane, since they get around  so >> well.  Yet, the >> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >> into >> > obstacles.  The instructors do not want the blind >> person to feel >> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >> > >> > >> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >> blind person >> > has low self  esteem, and needs counseling. >> > CCB  knew that some of their students are at an >> intermediate >> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >> and just >> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info >> > for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> > sloose%40gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 04:41:15 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:41:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi again, Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are recently losing more vision. Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be distracted during their training by such things. Either way is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Arielle On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a > training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. > Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone > to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in > the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully > gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many > "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana > Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the > other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and > anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a > short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think > attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center > training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood > blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation > in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel > appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, > then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, > like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more > of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these > issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge > gap. > > In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in > Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your > time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and > sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time > is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some > exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to > sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time > during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; > I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). > > As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB > centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an > individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are > struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a > plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being > overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great > range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I > thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good > job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, > you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than > six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" > but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, > work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the > more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none > at all. > > There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think > the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their > students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, > but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the > sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had > growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and > respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in > completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, > challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also > being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the > skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us > independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we > needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ > alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear > to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care > about the students and their progress even after graduation. > > The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. > Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction > where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the > route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a > suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my > own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a > sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I > frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel > instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated > getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going > the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much > attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most > intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a > lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I > couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and > perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell > when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time > working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding > addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor > would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was > on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I > really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal > directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked > on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk > in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to > go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a > business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to > traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there > was nothing to be so worried about. > > I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in > August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even > an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair > amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't > get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More > importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more > quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before > training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at > intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or > stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I > was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my > condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without > a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I > would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my > mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross > streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would > have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB > training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with > me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I > spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with > instructors and by myself. > > Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a > different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can > experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center > for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life > between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe > alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring > NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can > receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their > homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, > though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning > out competent, self-reliant graduates. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >> well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >> attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >> are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in >> a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>   Is it hard to get involved with the community >>> outside the center? >>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>> sense. >>>   I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>> mind I'm not >>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>> training >>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>> people. >>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>> me.  I'm probably >>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>> blind >>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>> blind.  So, with >>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>> involved in the >>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>> for me. >>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>> choose to >>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>> programs, >>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>> Because I think >>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>> a "blind >>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>> center >>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>> opportunities I >>> might find living away from home for such a long >>> time.  Don't get me >>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>> great time. >>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>> my own like >>> this.  Thoughts, anyone? >>>   Kirt >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>> wrote: >>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>> learn the >>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>> easier.  Tara, I >>> > agree with you on all points.  At a center in >>> Daytona Beach, >>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>> rules such >>> > as the lights out rule.  Sexes were separated by >>> wing, and there >>> > was no question about dating.  At CCB, blind >>> people are treated >>> > like people. >>> > Beth >>> > >>> >  ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Tara Annis >> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> > >>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>> semesters at >>> > college.    I attended the school for the >>> blind and also took >>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>> would like >>> > to provide some insight. >>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>> have above >>> > average skills, even though they do  not go to >>> the NFB center, >>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>> could walk >>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>> miles.  I >>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>> instructor had >>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>> less.  I thought >>> > blind  people needed sighted  guide for any >>> new place they >>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>> grill. >>> > Some observations: >>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>> medication >>> > you took.  If you are supposed to be living in >>> the real world, >>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>> > >>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB.  As long as >>> you showed up to >>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>> as you >>> > aren't breaking the law.  You're adults, so you >>> should be treated >>> > like them. >>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>> > >>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>> for lunch. >>> > You just  walked out the door.  You didn't >>> need to make sure >>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning.  You >>> didn't need to >>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>> > >>> > >>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>> it. At other >>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>> caught using a >>> > cane or reading braille.  Sighted people wore >>> dark glasses when >>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>> look into >>> > their eyes.  They did  not like being stared >>> at by the  public. >>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>> > >>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>> public can >>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>> blindness.  I have >>> > witnessed at  other centers staff outright lying >>> to blind people >>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>> that they >>> > don't need a cane, since they get around  so >>> well.  Yet, the >>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>> into >>> > obstacles.  The instructors do not want the blind >>> person to feel >>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>> > >>> > >>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>> blind person >>> > has low self  esteem, and needs counseling. >>> > CCB  knew that some of their students are at an >>> intermediate >>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>> and just >>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info >>> > for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 04:52:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 23:52:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Arielle, Interesting; I didn't know dating after classes at nfb centers was common. Wow the Maurers met during training. Anyway, yes its sad if centers do discourage dating; they need to treat people as humans. Give them freedom after classes. I know some centers do not have high expectations, yet this is the first time I heard of centers discouraging dating. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hi again, Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are recently losing more vision. Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be distracted during their training by such things. Either way is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Arielle On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a > training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. > Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone > to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in > the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully > gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many > "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana > Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the > other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and > anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a > short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think > attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center > training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood > blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation > in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel > appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, > then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, > like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more > of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these > issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge > gap. > > In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in > Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your > time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and > sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time > is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some > exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to > sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time > during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; > I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). > > As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB > centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an > individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are > struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a > plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being > overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great > range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I > thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good > job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, > you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than > six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" > but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, > work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the > more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none > at all. > > There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think > the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their > students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, > but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the > sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had > growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and > respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in > completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, > challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also > being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the > skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us > independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we > needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ > alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear > to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care > about the students and their progress even after graduation. > > The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. > Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction > where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the > route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a > suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my > own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a > sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I > frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel > instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated > getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going > the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much > attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most > intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a > lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I > couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and > perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell > when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time > working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding > addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor > would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was > on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I > really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal > directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked > on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk > in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to > go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a > business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to > traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there > was nothing to be so worried about. > > I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in > August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even > an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair > amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't > get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More > importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more > quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before > training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at > intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or > stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I > was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my > condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without > a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I > would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my > mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross > streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would > have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB > training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with > me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I > spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with > instructors and by myself. > > Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a > different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can > experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center > for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life > between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe > alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring > NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can > receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their > homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, > though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning > out competent, self-reliant graduates. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >> well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >> attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >> are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in >> a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>> outside the center? >>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>> sense. >>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>> mind I'm not >>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>> training >>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>> people. >>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>> me. I'm probably >>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>> blind >>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>> blind. So, with >>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>> involved in the >>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>> for me. >>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>> choose to >>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>> programs, >>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>> Because I think >>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>> a "blind >>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>> center >>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>> opportunities I >>> might find living away from home for such a long >>> time. Don't get me >>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>> great time. >>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>> my own like >>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>> wrote: >>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>> learn the >>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>> easier. Tara, I >>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>> Daytona Beach, >>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>> rules such >>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>> wing, and there >>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>> people are treated >>> > like people. >>> > Beth >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Tara Annis >> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> > >>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>> semesters at >>> > college. I attended the school for the >>> blind and also took >>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>> would like >>> > to provide some insight. >>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>> have above >>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>> the NFB center, >>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>> could walk >>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>> miles. I >>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>> instructor had >>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>> less. I thought >>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>> new place they >>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>> grill. >>> > Some observations: >>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>> medication >>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>> the real world, >>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>> > >>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>> you showed up to >>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>> as you >>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>> should be treated >>> > like them. >>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>> > >>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>> for lunch. >>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>> need to make sure >>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>> didn't need to >>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>> > >>> > >>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>> it. At other >>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>> caught using a >>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>> dark glasses when >>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>> look into >>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>> at by the public. >>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>> > >>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>> public can >>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>> blindness. I have >>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>> to blind people >>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>> that they >>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>> well. Yet, the >>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>> into >>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>> person to feel >>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>> > >>> > >>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>> blind person >>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>> intermediate >>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>> and just >>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info >>> > for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 05:00:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:00:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <64NQ1g00H2PutTY054NR08@netzero.net> References: <64NQ1g00H2PutTY054NR08@netzero.net> Message-ID: Humberto, Of course anyone who is legally blind can go to the program. You can be blind from birth or gone blind anytime in life. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: humberto Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Again, just my 90 cents here: You are talking, all about when people are new to blindness, and they attend blindness centers. But how about people who are blind since birth like me? Can we also go to training centers, or is it just for newly blinded people? I'm just Curious; and also I wanted to be a little more fair on this topic so as to provide fair equality for also those who are blind since they were born. thanks anyways. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Tara Annis To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at college. I attended the school for the blind and also took some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like to provide some insight. >I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, but this is really rare from my observations. >Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. >Some observations: >1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, why have someone keep track of your meds? >2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated like them. >Go to bed when you feel like it. >3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to have a sighted person to come along to help out. >4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel bad so that is why they make up these lies. >6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just came to CCB for advanced skills training. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Thu Feb 10 05:02:26 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:02:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hi again, Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are recently losing more vision. Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be distracted during their training by such things. Either way is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Arielle On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a > training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. > Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone > to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in > the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully > gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many > "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana > Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the > other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and > anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a > short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think > attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center > training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood > blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation > in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel > appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, > then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, > like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more > of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these > issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge > gap. > > In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in > Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your > time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and > sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time > is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some > exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to > sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time > during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; > I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). > > As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB > centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an > individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are > struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a > plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being > overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great > range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I > thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good > job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, > you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than > six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" > but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, > work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the > more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none > at all. > > There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think > the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their > students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, > but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the > sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had > growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and > respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in > completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, > challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also > being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the > skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us > independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we > needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ > alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear > to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care > about the students and their progress even after graduation. > > The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. > Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction > where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the > route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a > suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my > own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a > sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I > frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel > instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated > getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going > the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much > attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most > intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a > lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I > couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and > perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell > when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time > working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding > addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor > would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was > on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I > really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal > directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked > on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk > in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to > go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a > business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to > traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there > was nothing to be so worried about. > > I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in > August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even > an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair > amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't > get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More > importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more > quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before > training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at > intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or > stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I > was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my > condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without > a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I > would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my > mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross > streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would > have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB > training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with > me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I > spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with > instructors and by myself. > > Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a > different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can > experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center > for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life > between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe > alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring > NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can > receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their > homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, > though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning > out competent, self-reliant graduates. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >> well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >> attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >> are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in >> a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>> outside the center? >>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>> sense. >>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>> mind I'm not >>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>> training >>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>> people. >>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>> me. I'm probably >>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>> blind >>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>> blind. So, with >>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>> involved in the >>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>> for me. >>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>> choose to >>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>> programs, >>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>> Because I think >>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>> a "blind >>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>> center >>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>> opportunities I >>> might find living away from home for such a long >>> time. Don't get me >>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>> great time. >>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>> my own like >>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>> wrote: >>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>> learn the >>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>> easier. Tara, I >>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>> Daytona Beach, >>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>> rules such >>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>> wing, and there >>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>> people are treated >>> > like people. >>> > Beth >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Tara Annis >> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> > >>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>> semesters at >>> > college. I attended the school for the >>> blind and also took >>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>> would like >>> > to provide some insight. >>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>> have above >>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>> the NFB center, >>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>> could walk >>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>> miles. I >>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>> instructor had >>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>> less. I thought >>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>> new place they >>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>> grill. >>> > Some observations: >>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>> medication >>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>> the real world, >>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>> > >>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>> you showed up to >>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>> as you >>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>> should be treated >>> > like them. >>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>> > >>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>> for lunch. >>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>> need to make sure >>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>> didn't need to >>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>> > >>> > >>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>> it. At other >>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>> caught using a >>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>> dark glasses when >>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>> look into >>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>> at by the public. >>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>> > >>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>> public can >>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>> blindness. I have >>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>> to blind people >>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>> that they >>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>> well. Yet, the >>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>> into >>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>> person to feel >>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>> > >>> > >>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>> blind person >>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>> intermediate >>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>> and just >>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info >>> > for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Feb 10 06:45:20 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 01:45:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Retraction Message-ID: <20110210064520.6442.94702@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Actually, that's a good point. The prof's research should, if it doesn't already, have some additional controls, particularly if he has a well-defined and specific hypothesized relationship between blindness and sex knowledge. Let's say that his hypothesis isn't terribly specific. Let's just say he's simply interested in what blind young adults know. From that angle, a questionnaire could be useful in getting some general information to use in studies that would seek to tease out why (for instance) a blind person's knowledge might differ from a sighted person's. If he's got a more well-defined hypothesis, he needs to add more controls to his study to make sure that all the potential confounds (things that might give him false positives) are ruled out. I'm guessing he's probably got a hypothesis that's kinda somewhere in between. In that case, general questions might be useful, but he may want to add some other general questions such as what kind of sex ed program was made available (abstinence only, abstinence plus, etc), at what age a sex ed program was implemented (that could be a confound especially if the blind students are enrolled in schools that have sex ed later in the school career than others), whether or not the student has attended public school (schools for the blind may have different accessibility options or may do sex ed a little differently than public schools), etc. It is absurd to believe that blindness in and of itself would delay the development of sexual knowledge. However, there are a number of social factors that could contribute (some blindness-related, others not). Joe, could you please forward this e-mail as I've lost the prof's address? And to add one more thing: the prof's lit review should probably critique whether or not these social factors were addressed in previous studies or if the previous studies did find that blindness itself is the main cause of under-development of sex knowledge. If previous studies suggested that blindness is the cause, then he may want to address why a study would find it to be so and use that critical framework as one reason why his study is appropriate and useful. He may even want to include a small section on attitudes and stereotypes regarding blindness and sex (or disability and sex) since they definitely play a part in people's views of blind people and sex that can both confound previous studies and their findings or create serious barriers to gaining appropriate sex education for blind people. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I agree that I would not and still do not have a changed opinion based > on the fact that the professor is himself blind. However, I still > question the validity of a survey that only surveys an age range of > two years, and why isn't he surveying sighted students as wel? I know, > it's been done before, but the difference in time, location of the > surveyors and/or students, how many sighted students were surveyed, > and much more could make a difference. > Also, could someone please send me the professors's contact > information? I seem to have lost it, and I'd like to spek with him > about his survey. My main question is: When is it expected that the > approximage two years difference decreases and disappears altogether, > and why not survey older people (20-40) to see what their education is > like, in comparison, to find out where the gap ends? > I am appalled by the ntote that the professor only recieved rude > messages and hang-ups. I may not agree with the survey, but I > certainly did not send him a rude message or harass him. I fear that > whoever did send those messages has lost their sense of self-honour > and honour for the blind movement in general. I'm sure I'm preaching > to the choir here, though (at least I hope so!) > On 2/4/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Dear list, >> I spoke with the professor regarding his sex study of which there's been so >> much discussion. By way of a summary, there is research suggesting that >> blind people are at least two years behind in their sexual development. >> However, there is no research to fully explain why this is the case. >> Last year he attempted to survey students ages 14-18. Only 3 out of 70 >> parents gave consent for their children to participate, and naturally, this >> is an insufficient sample. If the research above is true, his next best >> option is to interview young adults between 18 and 20, since theoretically >> their sexual development would be at that of a 16 to 18-year-old. He wanted >> to stay as close to the original age range as possible. >> The reason for the survey is to promote equal sex education among blind >> students. There are schools with no sex education. There are schools where >> the sex education is fully developed, but even these campuses are not fully >> prepared to go beyond visual exhibits for their blind students. Blind >> people are therefore left without a real sense of sex, and even more >> importantly, sexual safety. Take it a step further, and research suggests >> blind people are not fully aware of more serious conditions like signs of >> cancer, a problem that could have been covered in a well-prepared sex >> education curriculum using replicas and other tools. >> Ultimately, the current study does not seek to teach blind people how to do >> what would be self-explanatory. Rather, it seeks to create an instrument >> that teachers can use to educate blind people in a way sighted people are >> educated from photos, diagrams and movies. >> Having written all that, I retract my previous post. I said to the >> professor that his e-mail could have provided a little more information >> without tainting the nature of his research. He feels the reaction would >> have been more positive if he had included the fact that he is also blind. >> I disagreed with him, pointing out that I took the e-mail at face value. My >> reaction would have been the same with the information I was provided, >> regardless of visual acuity. I wish the professor the best in his studies >> and hope its outcome serves of some value to younger students. No, I do not >> think equal sex education will make or break a blind person's total sexual >> development, but I am looking at this from the standpoint of equal access to >> the classroom. If sighted people can process this information visually, >> there should be methods to impress the same information among blind >> students. >> And, I do not retract my overriding point that as blind people we should not >> feel compelled to defend ourselves on all fronts. My reference to the study >> was one example, but I think it also applies to mischaracterizations we >> might see on television or come across in general media. If we make a habit >> of defending ourselves against every misguided notion, we will spend more >> time educating and less time living, and living is sometimes the best method >> of setting an example. >> At any rate, it was great to be proven wrong on the study. Anyone who can >> respond to my loaded points with the poise the professor did deserves my >> respect and public retraction. It is my understanding that he offered to >> speak to other people via phone to explain himself, and the only response he >> received were rude messages and hang-ups. I hope the additional information >> will help us all see things from the perspective it was meant to be >> perceived. >> Best, >> Joe >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- > ~Jewel > Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! > Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Feb 10 07:27:36 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 02:27:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: <20110210072736.2453.79585@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> There's a common misconception about Structured Discovery: many (in and out of the NFB) think that Structured Discovery means that one is just thrown into a situation and expected to figure it out for themselves. Though this may happen at an advanced level, it's certainly not what happens toward the beginning and middle of one's SD training. Instead, SD's more like the following analogy previously posted on this topic: People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence. If one can problem-solve while reading, one can problem-solve while traveling. The skills are transferrable and the aim of SD is to make that transfer happen. SD O and M is quite concrete. The difference between SD and traditional instructors is that SD instructors believe in you and will teach you to believe in yourself by not accepting your excuses for why you can't do something. If you've got a genuine limitation, SD is all about helping you overcome it using a wide variety of flexible approaches. Just saying. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello, > That's true Darian. There are people out there who went to no formal > training center or did it another way who are successful. There are other > centers out there that use apartments for housing. Some people train on > their own and get a teacher from the agency for the blind to come out to > their home and teach them. There are itenerant rehab teachers and O&M > instructors. > Going the extended time to a training center for six months may not be for > everyone due to leaving kids, not being able to keep their house while gone > or other circumstances. > Structured discovery wouldn't work for me because I don't learn by cardinal > directions in travel. I cannot interpret sound cues alone without visual > input and I like maps rather than just oral directions to walk a few blocks, > cross x street and y street and go to some address. > Traditional instructors are more concrete and may use maps to convey > concepts. Now I do agree some traditional instructors especially for cane > travel, don't have the highest expectations. > But I hope that is changing and you can always push yourself if your > instructor doesn't. > People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. > Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For > instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have a > foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend them > together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding it out and > problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence. > I already went to our state center for a while; several months and its good > for some things and bad for others. For instance all we did in cooking class > was baking sweets primarily. > The class I got the most from was daily living; the instructor showed > things and went step by step. > One size doesn't fit all. When I hear the nfb center graduates say negative > things and make assumptions about other blind people like oh they lack > initiative or something it sounds like those who went to centers are acting > elite. > That said I still need to figure out some skills. I don't know if I'll go > to another center, probably carroll center, or learn on my own through > friends. But I really need to learn to cook! > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Darian Smith > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > Bridgit and list, > I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited > greatly from that type of environment. > I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone > through any formalized training or training at a center that > stressed structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as > happy, just asproductive as some of those who havegone. > you could also say the same for people who have gone through > non-traditional methods of post-secondary education, with some even > being successful with no college expirience. Will the numbers end up > the same if you were to break down statistics on the matter? I doubt > it, but the examples are out there. > I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a counter > argument just for the sake of discussion. > Like I say, I went through the training center environment that > Bridgit speaks of, and learned a great amount, I first started the > program believeing that six months would do it for me, andas I look > back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would > have. > thoughts folks? > respectfully, > Darian > On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Dear List, >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I feel >> it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good training >> center to attend. >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can do >> is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB centers >> and other progressive centers follow similar methods is because, for >> years now, they have proven to be the best methods for instilling >> independence along with a strong functionality with the skills. >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn the >> skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are mistaken. >> Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not complete a >> training course and they lack the confidence and ability that most gain >> after at least a six month stint. >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people are >> against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made sense >> to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can do >> things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision at >> all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say sleep >> shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes across is >> that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and that when you >> have no useable vision, you can not effectively accomplish things. >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never tried >> something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all this >> because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard core blind >> people; I say all this because I have experienced it and know the >> benefits. >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and methods >> to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to prove >> ourselves to the world. >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio may >> not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, but I >> also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to use those >> skills, living on your own may not be the best situation right away. >> Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this style of >> training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department for the Blind, >> where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, but housing is on >> campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge yourself and find out >> what you really are able to do. >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and completing >> six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we choose >> universities that truncate their programs because we don't want to spend >> time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work for four years, >> or longer, so we can receive the best education possible. Why do we >> view training centers for the blind differently? >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are and >> what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life that >> make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our lives? Do we >> not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of course not. We >> should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, when it comes to >> choosing a training center. >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message that >> blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. Yes, I >> have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind people not >> reaching their full potential or not understanding how independent they >> can be. The reason NFB centers were created was because most other >> agencies were not teaching and instilling this sense of independence, >> and they were not willing to open their minds to a new way. Like many >> other situations, we were not going to accept this so we opened our own >> training centers. Not everyone graduating from these centers leaves >> ready to make their mark on the world, bbut this is life. Many, though, >> leave these centers knowing they can do anything, and they are ready to >> face the world. >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of things. >> I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of the NFB or >> any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for training, in a >> whole other state, was the first time I truly lived away from home. I >> have not been back since. >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind too). >> I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and more, and >> I owe this to a positive training center. >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. As >> blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our minds >> too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own potential. >> Bridgit >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 14:37:14 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:37:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble Message-ID: <3AA6A82AA55142DF9A7FD827BB30C7B5@Rufus> Hello, Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how blind people want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up married to other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of course up to the individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of the very same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst ourselves. In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for people to get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people should be tied at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience is to take what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, where it really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed to a heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from observing other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. Something as simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food court and head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for me in high school and played a key role in my personal development later in college. Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are likely to develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance of following you for the long-term. Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS or Apple or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a point about running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching opportunity. Training should not just be about what you can take away, but also, what you can give back. You just might be the person who can help out this sheltered individual. The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic fashion. At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating and/or marrying another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's own insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they themselves feel more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things are easy when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the conveniences from such things like the sighted person being able to drive their blind spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers for ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not what's going to make a relationship work. All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness bubble that do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if my views are sorely mistaken. I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become complacent with their landscape to the point that their views become a bit limited. Working in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is all you do, I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of confidence. I'm not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and again, at the unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some ways it is almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even our National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even though the students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become an expert at what you do and expect your students or your membership to just learn it, use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a training center instructor to expect a student to become confident in the hypothetical span of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very well become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning environment will be significantly different when the person returns to the real world where there are no other blind people or instructors to keep the momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or chapter to just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more partnerships, but neither of these things are straightforward, even among sighted organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the need to work collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to create an all-inclusive environment. I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am also not suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are selling themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to fight what to me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we attract great professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer you work at something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I think there is an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it just turns people off, because these high standards are good within the blindness field but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general public. Just as professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are opportunities for blind professionals to get out there for a little while and refresh their understanding of the environment in which their charges are living. Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a negative tone. As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that we can examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the professionals. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 15:16:29 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <3AA6A82AA55142DF9A7FD827BB30C7B5@Rufus> References: <3AA6A82AA55142DF9A7FD827BB30C7B5@Rufus> Message-ID: On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted man, who wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could drive me, who could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my blindness, nor even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run my blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now with that said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit more challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly those things are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix me; he is okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick out of making jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. My husband was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that sense, we understand the struggles that go along with being married to a sighted person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the NFB, or because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me better. We married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at the 2009 Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend Youth Slam to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The seriousness of it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there he was. Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, how independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not deal with his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the relationship forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think it was cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God had something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide dog users, or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry blind people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. You should marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will treat you well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So what blind people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, marry, date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they have or do not have, but who they are. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble Hello, Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how blind people want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up married to other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of course up to the individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of the very same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst ourselves. In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for people to get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people should be tied at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience is to take what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, where it really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed to a heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from observing other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. Something as simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food court and head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for me in high school and played a key role in my personal development later in college. Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are likely to develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance of following you for the long-term. Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS or Apple or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a point about running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching opportunity. Training should not just be about what you can take away, but also, what you can give back. You just might be the person who can help out this sheltered individual. The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic fashion. At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating and/or marrying another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's own insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they themselves feel more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things are easy when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the conveniences from such things like the sighted person being able to drive their blind spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers for ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not what's going to make a relationship work. All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness bubble that do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if my views are sorely mistaken. I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become complacent with their landscape to the point that their views become a bit limited. Working in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is all you do, I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of confidence. I'm not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and again, at the unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some ways it is almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even our National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even though the students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become an expert at what you do and expect your students or your membership to just learn it, use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a training center instructor to expect a student to become confident in the hypothetical span of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very well become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning environment will be significantly different when the person returns to the real world where there are no other blind people or instructors to keep the momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or chapter to just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more partnerships, but neither of these things are straightforward, even among sighted organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the need to work collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to create an all-inclusive environment. I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am also not suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are selling themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to fight what to me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we attract great professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer you work at something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I think there is an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it just turns people off, because these high standards are good within the blindness field but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general public. Just as professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are opportunities for blind professionals to get out there for a little while and refresh their understanding of the environment in which their charges are living. Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a negative tone. As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that we can examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the professionals. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5861 (20110210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5862 (20110210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 16:12:02 2011 From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 08:12:02 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Community service call, Feb13. Message-ID: Hello all, here is a reminder about the next community service conference call! Information about the call follows: Hi everyone. It's time for another community service conference call! This time we will be hearing from Conchita Hernandez, who was a 2010 scholarship winner. The information for calling in is below. when: February 13, 7 P.M. ET phone number: (218) 339-3600 passcode 808277. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 16:21:55 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:21:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <4d5410d3.a7fed80a.29d0.0adc@mx.google.com> As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. lol Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi all, As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge gap. In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none at all. There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care about the students and their progress even after graduation. The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there was nothing to be so worried about. I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with instructors and by myself. Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning out competent, self-reliant graduates. Arielle On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: Kirt, Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two sense. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: From: Kirt Manwaring Sotrue. I was yelled at for dating in high school, but then again, my public school had no expectations of a blind girl either. Nobody says anything about me and my bf dating here. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Hatgelakas" wrote: Hi all, As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge gap. In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none at all. There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care about the students and their progress even after graduation. The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there was nothing to be so worried about. I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with instructors and by myself. Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning out competent, self-reliant graduates. Arielle On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: Kirt, Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two sense. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: From: Kirt Manwaring I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what African people think of blind people. African blind men marry sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good old-fashioned love." Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsha Drenth" ,"'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a nuisence...but, that's just me. All the best, Kirt On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: > I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. > HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what > African people think of blind people. African blind men marry > sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a > Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. > That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we > will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee > he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good > old-fashioned love." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted > man, who > wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could > drive me, who > could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my > blindness, nor > even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run > my > blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now > with that > said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit > more > challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly > those things > are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix > me; he is > okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick > out of making > jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. > My husband > was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that > sense, we > understand the struggles that go along with being married to a > sighted > person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the > NFB, or > because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me > better. We > married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at > the 2009 > Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend > Youth Slam > to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The > seriousness of > it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there > he was. > Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, > how > independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not > deal with > his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the > relationship > forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think > it was > cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God > had > something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. > > But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of > understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide > dog users, > or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry > blind > people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the > transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. > You should > marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will > treat you > well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. > > So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So > what blind > people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, > marry, > date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they > have or do > not have, but who they are. > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > Hello, > > Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how > blind people > want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up > married to > other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of > course up to the > individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of > the very > same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst > ourselves. > > In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for > people to > get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people > should be tied > at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience > is to take > what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, > where it > really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed > to a > heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from > observing > other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. > Something as > simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food > court and > head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for > me in high > school and played a key role in my personal development later in > college. > Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are > likely to > develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance > of > following you for the long-term. > > Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS > or Apple > or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a > point about > running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching > opportunity. > Training should not just be about what you can take away, but > also, what you > can give back. You just might be the person who can help out > this sheltered > individual. > > The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic > fashion. > At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating > and/or marrying > another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's > own > insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they > themselves feel > more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things > are easy > when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the > conveniences > from such things like the sighted person being able to drive > their blind > spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers > for > ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not > what's going > to make a relationship work. > > All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness > bubble that > do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if > my views > are sorely mistaken. > > I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become > complacent with > their landscape to the point that their views become a bit > limited. Working > in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is > all you do, > I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of > confidence. I'm > not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and > again, at the > unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some > ways it is > almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even > our > National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even > though the > students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become > an expert > at what you do and expect your students or your membership to > just learn it, > use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a > training center > instructor to expect a student to become confident in the > hypothetical span > of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very > well > become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning > environment will be significantly different when the person > returns to the > real world where there are no other blind people or instructors > to keep the > momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or > chapter to > just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more > partnerships, > but neither of these things are straightforward, even among > sighted > organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the > need to work > collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to > create an > all-inclusive environment. > > I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am > also not > suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are > selling > themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to > fight what to > me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we > attract great > professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer > you work at > something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I > think there is > an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it > just turns > people off, because these high standards are good within the > blindness field > but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general > public. Just as > professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are > opportunities for > blind professionals to get out there for a little while and > refresh their > understanding of the environment in which their charges are > living. > > Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a > negative tone. > As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that > we can > examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the > professionals. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr > enth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5861 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5862 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From aaatlantic at aol.com Thu Feb 10 17:03:14 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:03:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <191D29F7-E69F-485B-AB4B-A2DF110EDFAD@aol.com> Dear all, I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a nuisence...but, that's just me. All the best, Kirt On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: > I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. > HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what > African people think of blind people. African blind men marry > sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a > Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. > That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we > will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee > he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good > old-fashioned love." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted > man, who > wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could > drive me, who > could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my > blindness, nor > even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run > my > blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now > with that > said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit > more > challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly > those things > are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix > me; he is > okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick > out of making > jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. > My husband > was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that > sense, we > understand the struggles that go along with being married to a > sighted > person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the > NFB, or > because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me > better. We > married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at > the 2009 > Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend > Youth Slam > to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The > seriousness of > it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there > he was. > Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, > how > independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not > deal with > his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the > relationship > forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think > it was > cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God > had > something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. > > But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of > understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide > dog users, > or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry > blind > people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the > transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. > You should > marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will > treat you > well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. > > So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So > what blind > people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, > marry, > date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they > have or do > not have, but who they are. > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > Hello, > > Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how > blind people > want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up > married to > other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of > course up to the > individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of > the very > same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst > ourselves. > > In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for > people to > get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people > should be tied > at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience > is to take > what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, > where it > really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed > to a > heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from > observing > other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. > Something as > simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food > court and > head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for > me in high > school and played a key role in my personal development later in > college. > Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are > likely to > develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance > of > following you for the long-term. > > Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS > or Apple > or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a > point about > running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching > opportunity. > Training should not just be about what you can take away, but > also, what you > can give back. You just might be the person who can help out > this sheltered > individual. > > The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic > fashion. > At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating > and/or marrying > another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's > own > insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they > themselves feel > more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things > are easy > when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the > conveniences > from such things like the sighted person being able to drive > their blind > spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers > for > ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not > what's going > to make a relationship work. > > All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness > bubble that > do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if > my views > are sorely mistaken. > > I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become > complacent with > their landscape to the point that their views become a bit > limited. Working > in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is > all you do, > I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of > confidence. I'm > not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and > again, at the > unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some > ways it is > almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even > our > National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even > though the > students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become > an expert > at what you do and expect your students or your membership to > just learn it, > use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a > training center > instructor to expect a student to become confident in the > hypothetical span > of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very > well > become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning > environment will be significantly different when the person > returns to the > real world where there are no other blind people or instructors > to keep the > momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or > chapter to > just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more > partnerships, > but neither of these things are straightforward, even among > sighted > organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the > need to work > collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to > create an > all-inclusive environment. > > I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am > also not > suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are > selling > themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to > fight what to > me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we > attract great > professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer > you work at > something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I > think there is > an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it > just turns > people off, because these high standards are good within the > blindness field > but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general > public. Just as > professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are > opportunities for > blind professionals to get out there for a little while and > refresh their > understanding of the environment in which their charges are > living. > > Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a > negative tone. > As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that > we can > examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the > professionals. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr > enth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5861 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5862 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com From aaatlantic at aol.com Thu Feb 10 17:03:13 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:03:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a nuisence...but, that's just me. All the best, Kirt On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: > I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. > HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what > African people think of blind people. African blind men marry > sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a > Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. > That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we > will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee > he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good > old-fashioned love." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted > man, who > wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could > drive me, who > could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my > blindness, nor > even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run > my > blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now > with that > said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit > more > challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly > those things > are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix > me; he is > okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick > out of making > jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. > My husband > was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that > sense, we > understand the struggles that go along with being married to a > sighted > person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the > NFB, or > because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me > better. We > married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at > the 2009 > Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend > Youth Slam > to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The > seriousness of > it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there > he was. > Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, > how > independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not > deal with > his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the > relationship > forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think > it was > cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God > had > something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. > > But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of > understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide > dog users, > or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry > blind > people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the > transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. > You should > marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will > treat you > well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. > > So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So > what blind > people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, > marry, > date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they > have or do > not have, but who they are. > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > Hello, > > Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how > blind people > want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up > married to > other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of > course up to the > individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of > the very > same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst > ourselves. > > In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for > people to > get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people > should be tied > at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience > is to take > what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, > where it > really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed > to a > heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from > observing > other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. > Something as > simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food > court and > head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for > me in high > school and played a key role in my personal development later in > college. > Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are > likely to > develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance > of > following you for the long-term. > > Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS > or Apple > or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a > point about > running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching > opportunity. > Training should not just be about what you can take away, but > also, what you > can give back. You just might be the person who can help out > this sheltered > individual. > > The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic > fashion. > At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating > and/or marrying > another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's > own > insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they > themselves feel > more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things > are easy > when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the > conveniences > from such things like the sighted person being able to drive > their blind > spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers > for > ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not > what's going > to make a relationship work. > > All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness > bubble that > do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if > my views > are sorely mistaken. > > I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become > complacent with > their landscape to the point that their views become a bit > limited. Working > in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is > all you do, > I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of > confidence. I'm > not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and > again, at the > unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some > ways it is > almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even > our > National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even > though the > students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become > an expert > at what you do and expect your students or your membership to > just learn it, > use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a > training center > instructor to expect a student to become confident in the > hypothetical span > of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very > well > become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning > environment will be significantly different when the person > returns to the > real world where there are no other blind people or instructors > to keep the > momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or > chapter to > just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more > partnerships, > but neither of these things are straightforward, even among > sighted > organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the > need to work > collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to > create an > all-inclusive environment. > > I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am > also not > suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are > selling > themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to > fight what to > me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we > attract great > professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer > you work at > something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I > think there is > an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it > just turns > people off, because these high standards are good within the > blindness field > but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general > public. Just as > professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are > opportunities for > blind professionals to get out there for a little while and > refresh their > understanding of the environment in which their charges are > living. > > Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a > negative tone. > As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that > we can > examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the > professionals. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr > enth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5861 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5862 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com From aaatlantic at aol.com Thu Feb 10 17:03:12 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:03:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a nuisence...but, that's just me. All the best, Kirt On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: > I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. > HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what > African people think of blind people. African blind men marry > sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a > Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. > That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we > will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee > he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good > old-fashioned love." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted > man, who > wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could > drive me, who > could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my > blindness, nor > even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run > my > blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now > with that > said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit > more > challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly > those things > are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix > me; he is > okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick > out of making > jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. > My husband > was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that > sense, we > understand the struggles that go along with being married to a > sighted > person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the > NFB, or > because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me > better. We > married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at > the 2009 > Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend > Youth Slam > to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The > seriousness of > it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there > he was. > Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, > how > independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not > deal with > his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the > relationship > forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think > it was > cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God > had > something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. > > But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of > understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide > dog users, > or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry > blind > people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the > transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. > You should > marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will > treat you > well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. > > So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So > what blind > people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, > marry, > date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they > have or do > not have, but who they are. > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > Hello, > > Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how > blind people > want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up > married to > other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of > course up to the > individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of > the very > same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst > ourselves. > > In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for > people to > get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people > should be tied > at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience > is to take > what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, > where it > really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed > to a > heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from > observing > other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. > Something as > simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food > court and > head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for > me in high > school and played a key role in my personal development later in > college. > Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are > likely to > develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance > of > following you for the long-term. > > Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS > or Apple > or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a > point about > running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching > opportunity. > Training should not just be about what you can take away, but > also, what you > can give back. You just might be the person who can help out > this sheltered > individual. > > The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic > fashion. > At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating > and/or marrying > another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's > own > insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they > themselves feel > more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things > are easy > when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the > conveniences > from such things like the sighted person being able to drive > their blind > spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers > for > ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not > what's going > to make a relationship work. > > All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness > bubble that > do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if > my views > are sorely mistaken. > > I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become > complacent with > their landscape to the point that their views become a bit > limited. Working > in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is > all you do, > I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of > confidence. I'm > not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and > again, at the > unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some > ways it is > almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even > our > National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even > though the > students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become > an expert > at what you do and expect your students or your membership to > just learn it, > use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a > training center > instructor to expect a student to become confident in the > hypothetical span > of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very > well > become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning > environment will be significantly different when the person > returns to the > real world where there are no other blind people or instructors > to keep the > momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or > chapter to > just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more > partnerships, > but neither of these things are straightforward, even among > sighted > organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the > need to work > collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to > create an > all-inclusive environment. > > I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am > also not > suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are > selling > themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to > fight what to > me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we > attract great > professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer > you work at > something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I > think there is > an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it > just turns > people off, because these high standards are good within the > blindness field > but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general > public. Just as > professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are > opportunities for > blind professionals to get out there for a little while and > refresh their > understanding of the environment in which their charges are > living. > > Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a > negative tone. > As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that > we can > examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the > professionals. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr > enth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5861 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5862 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com From aaatlantic at aol.com Thu Feb 10 17:03:15 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:03:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1AC5AA15-7177-4A7E-886B-55A1D95CF132@aol.com> Dear all, I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a nuisence...but, that's just me. All the best, Kirt On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: > I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. > HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what > African people think of blind people. African blind men marry > sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a > Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. > That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we > will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee > he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good > old-fashioned love." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted > man, who > wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could > drive me, who > could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my > blindness, nor > even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run > my > blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now > with that > said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit > more > challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly > those things > are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix > me; he is > okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick > out of making > jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. > My husband > was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that > sense, we > understand the struggles that go along with being married to a > sighted > person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the > NFB, or > because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me > better. We > married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at > the 2009 > Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend > Youth Slam > to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The > seriousness of > it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there > he was. > Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, > how > independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not > deal with > his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the > relationship > forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think > it was > cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God > had > something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. > > But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of > understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide > dog users, > or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry > blind > people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the > transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. > You should > marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will > treat you > well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. > > So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So > what blind > people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, > marry, > date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they > have or do > not have, but who they are. > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > Hello, > > Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how > blind people > want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up > married to > other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of > course up to the > individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of > the very > same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst > ourselves. > > In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for > people to > get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people > should be tied > at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience > is to take > what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, > where it > really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed > to a > heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from > observing > other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. > Something as > simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food > court and > head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for > me in high > school and played a key role in my personal development later in > college. > Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are > likely to > develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance > of > following you for the long-term. > > Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS > or Apple > or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a > point about > running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching > opportunity. > Training should not just be about what you can take away, but > also, what you > can give back. You just might be the person who can help out > this sheltered > individual. > > The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic > fashion. > At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating > and/or marrying > another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's > own > insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they > themselves feel > more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things > are easy > when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the > conveniences > from such things like the sighted person being able to drive > their blind > spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers > for > ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not > what's going > to make a relationship work. > > All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness > bubble that > do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if > my views > are sorely mistaken. > > I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become > complacent with > their landscape to the point that their views become a bit > limited. Working > in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is > all you do, > I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of > confidence. I'm > not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and > again, at the > unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some > ways it is > almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even > our > National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even > though the > students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become > an expert > at what you do and expect your students or your membership to > just learn it, > use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a > training center > instructor to expect a student to become confident in the > hypothetical span > of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very > well > become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning > environment will be significantly different when the person > returns to the > real world where there are no other blind people or instructors > to keep the > momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or > chapter to > just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more > partnerships, > but neither of these things are straightforward, even among > sighted > organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the > need to work > collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to > create an > all-inclusive environment. > > I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am > also not > suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are > selling > themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to > fight what to > me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we > attract great > professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer > you work at > something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I > think there is > an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it > just turns > people off, because these high standards are good within the > blindness field > but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general > public. Just as > professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are > opportunities for > blind professionals to get out there for a little while and > refresh their > understanding of the environment in which their charges are > living. > > Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a > negative tone. > As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that > we can > examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the > professionals. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr > enth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5861 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5862 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com From aaatlantic at aol.com Thu Feb 10 17:03:14 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:03:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a nuisence...but, that's just me. All the best, Kirt On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: > I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. > HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what > African people think of blind people. African blind men marry > sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a > Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. > That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we > will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee > he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good > old-fashioned love." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted > man, who > wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could > drive me, who > could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my > blindness, nor > even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run > my > blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now > with that > said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit > more > challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly > those things > are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix > me; he is > okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick > out of making > jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. > My husband > was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that > sense, we > understand the struggles that go along with being married to a > sighted > person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the > NFB, or > because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me > better. We > married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at > the 2009 > Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend > Youth Slam > to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The > seriousness of > it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there > he was. > Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, > how > independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not > deal with > his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the > relationship > forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think > it was > cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God > had > something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. > > But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of > understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide > dog users, > or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry > blind > people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the > transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. > You should > marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will > treat you > well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. > > So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So > what blind > people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, > marry, > date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they > have or do > not have, but who they are. > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > Hello, > > Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how > blind people > want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up > married to > other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of > course up to the > individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of > the very > same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst > ourselves. > > In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for > people to > get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people > should be tied > at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience > is to take > what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, > where it > really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed > to a > heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from > observing > other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. > Something as > simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food > court and > head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for > me in high > school and played a key role in my personal development later in > college. > Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are > likely to > develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance > of > following you for the long-term. > > Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS > or Apple > or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a > point about > running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching > opportunity. > Training should not just be about what you can take away, but > also, what you > can give back. You just might be the person who can help out > this sheltered > individual. > > The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic > fashion. > At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating > and/or marrying > another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's > own > insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they > themselves feel > more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things > are easy > when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the > conveniences > from such things like the sighted person being able to drive > their blind > spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers > for > ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not > what's going > to make a relationship work. > > All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness > bubble that > do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if > my views > are sorely mistaken. > > I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become > complacent with > their landscape to the point that their views become a bit > limited. Working > in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is > all you do, > I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of > confidence. I'm > not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and > again, at the > unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some > ways it is > almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even > our > National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even > though the > students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become > an expert > at what you do and expect your students or your membership to > just learn it, > use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a > training center > instructor to expect a student to become confident in the > hypothetical span > of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very > well > become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning > environment will be significantly different when the person > returns to the > real world where there are no other blind people or instructors > to keep the > momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or > chapter to > just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more > partnerships, > but neither of these things are straightforward, even among > sighted > organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the > need to work > collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to > create an > all-inclusive environment. > > I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am > also not > suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are > selling > themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to > fight what to > me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we > attract great > professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer > you work at > something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I > think there is > an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it > just turns > people off, because these high standards are good within the > blindness field > but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general > public. Just as > professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are > opportunities for > blind professionals to get out there for a little while and > refresh their > understanding of the environment in which their charges are > living. > > Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a > negative tone. > As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that > we can > examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the > professionals. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr > enth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5861 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5862 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com From aaatlantic at aol.com Thu Feb 10 17:03:12 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:03:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2AABF9DB-72F6-43A4-B963-A83F3B9B444F@aol.com> Dear all, I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a nuisence...but, that's just me. All the best, Kirt On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: > I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. > HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what > African people think of blind people. African blind men marry > sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a > Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. > That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we > will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee > he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good > old-fashioned love." > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted > man, who > wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could > drive me, who > could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my > blindness, nor > even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run > my > blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now > with that > said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit > more > challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly > those things > are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix > me; he is > okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick > out of making > jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. > My husband > was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that > sense, we > understand the struggles that go along with being married to a > sighted > person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the > NFB, or > because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me > better. We > married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at > the 2009 > Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend > Youth Slam > to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The > seriousness of > it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there > he was. > Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, > how > independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not > deal with > his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the > relationship > forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think > it was > cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God > had > something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. > > But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of > understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide > dog users, > or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry > blind > people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the > transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. > You should > marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will > treat you > well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. > > So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So > what blind > people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, > marry, > date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they > have or do > not have, but who they are. > > Marsha > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble > > Hello, > > Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how > blind people > want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up > married to > other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of > course up to the > individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of > the very > same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst > ourselves. > > In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for > people to > get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people > should be tied > at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience > is to take > what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, > where it > really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed > to a > heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from > observing > other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. > Something as > simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food > court and > head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for > me in high > school and played a key role in my personal development later in > college. > Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are > likely to > develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance > of > following you for the long-term. > > Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS > or Apple > or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a > point about > running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching > opportunity. > Training should not just be about what you can take away, but > also, what you > can give back. You just might be the person who can help out > this sheltered > individual. > > The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic > fashion. > At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating > and/or marrying > another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's > own > insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they > themselves feel > more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things > are easy > when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the > conveniences > from such things like the sighted person being able to drive > their blind > spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers > for > ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not > what's going > to make a relationship work. > > All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness > bubble that > do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if > my views > are sorely mistaken. > > I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become > complacent with > their landscape to the point that their views become a bit > limited. Working > in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is > all you do, > I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of > confidence. I'm > not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and > again, at the > unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some > ways it is > almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even > our > National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even > though the > students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become > an expert > at what you do and expect your students or your membership to > just learn it, > use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a > training center > instructor to expect a student to become confident in the > hypothetical span > of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very > well > become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning > environment will be significantly different when the person > returns to the > real world where there are no other blind people or instructors > to keep the > momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or > chapter to > just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more > partnerships, > but neither of these things are straightforward, even among > sighted > organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the > need to work > collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to > create an > all-inclusive environment. > > I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am > also not > suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are > selling > themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to > fight what to > me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we > attract great > professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer > you work at > something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I > think there is > an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it > just turns > people off, because these high standards are good within the > blindness field > but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general > public. Just as > professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are > opportunities for > blind professionals to get out there for a little while and > refresh their > understanding of the environment in which their charges are > living. > > Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a > negative tone. > As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that > we can > examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the > professionals. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam > Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr > enth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5861 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > database 5862 (20110210) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Feb 10 18:33:17 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:33:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Curt, It is true, especially for those involved in the Federation, we may tend to spend a lot of time with other blind folk, and yes, there may be a line to watch, but we like who we like too. We should not isolate ourselves from the sighted world, but there is nothing wrong either with being friends with other blind people or even marrying them. As humans, we connect with certain people and we shouldn't base any of our relationships on disability, or any other reason. As blind people, we tend to draw lines at times. We don't have to count up our relationships and divvy people up. Oh, too many blind friends, I must cut back so I don't come across as only liking "my kind." *smile* I am not making judgements either, but I have learned that you have to live your life and do what you want-- don't base it on what others want, or by others standards. I was sighted for 22 years, and before losing my vision, I did not know any blind people. I still am friends with those people, but I also have met people whose company I enjoy and they happen to be blind. I am one of those who married a blind person, but, like you, I had no intention of doing this. When I met him, though, sparks flew. I couldn't deny the connection! LOL Obviously, at training centers, we are around other blind people because we are all learning skills and what not, but the point of good training is to give you the skills and confidence to go home and go into your community to be an equal, vital member of society. However, I do have this to say. Many of my sighted friends grew uncomfortable with my blindness. I did not change, I still enjoyed doing the same things, but some of my friends could not get past the blindness. We grew apart because they could not "deal" with my blindness even though I did not act differently. Others have experienced this and we find our blind friends tend to stick closer. Again, people are people, and sighted or blind, true friends care about you and remain a part of your life. The point is that no one-- blind or sighted, should base, or judge, their relationships on a disability. Saying you have no intention of spending time with other blind people is like, to me, the same as sighted people saying they will not hang out with blind people. I know your concern is that you do not currently have involvement in groups or activities that include other blind people, but be careful that you are not excluding us because you are trying to avoid some stereotype. Point-- live life and say F U to anyone who gives you flack for how you live your life. Bridgit Message: 3 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 13:37:37 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Beth, Tara and all, Is it hard to get involved with the community outside the center? Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make sense. I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in mind I'm not calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the training centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind people. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me. I'm probably not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a blind person...simply because most of my friends aren't blind. So, with that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get involved in the community at large, at whichever center I decide is right for me. So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I choose to spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer programs, other friends I might find outside the center, etc? Because I think the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in a "blind bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with center people all the time, and miss out on whatever other opportunities I might find living away from home for such a long time. Don't get me wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a great time. But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on my own like this. Thoughts, anyone? Kirt From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 19:02:56 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:02:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301cbc955$2158c520$640a4f60$@com> Kirt, While I agree with much of what you are saying, it leads me to a few general observations: First, blindness is neither a minor inconvenience nor a nuisance. If it were, would we really need NFB, ACB, AFB, etc.? No, we would not. It is a characteristic, of course, but pointing out that it is a characteristic offers no insight into the impact blindness has on one's life. I am willing to bet that, for most of us, our blindness has a greater impact on our day to day lives than our hair color. This isn't to say that we, as blind people, cannot achieve most anything we strive for, but I do think one's blindness, both for social reasons and for reasons related to the inherent nature of blindness, does present us with unique challenges to overcome and problems to address. You say that there are things that are more important to you than work on blindness issues, and that is good, as long as you realize that, in some sense, there are very few things more important to you and your life prospects. Something can be important to you in the sense that you care a lot about it, or it can be important to you in the sense that it effects you greatly and has a substantial impact on your life. I certainly have interests beyond blindness. I am very politically active, I volunteer in capacities not related to blindness, and I care deeply about a broad range of issues. Equal access to a quality education, for instance, is something that is very important to me, but without generations of blind people, and some sighted people too, fighting to ensure that blind folks have life opportunities, I wouldn't be in the position I am to work on things that I care about. What I mean to say is that, whether each of us desires to work in the blindness field or make NFB work a large part of our volunteerism or not, I hope we can all recognize that the efforts of people who came before us, as well as those being currently undertaken, matter greatly. If we start viewing work in the blindness field as second rate, we are not serving our cause well. True though it is that I have seen people take blindness related jobs because, in my opinion, it was the easier road, we must never demean or devalue the work of those who have the passion, dedication and desire to choose to work in the blindness field. I, for one, am glad that we have a highly competent and professional staff at NFB in Baltimore, and I rejoice in capable blind role models choosing to teach blind kids. Blindness work is not next best, it is important and meaningful work. I don't want to work in the blindness field, and, in fact, have had to make a real effort to avoid being pigeonholed into blindness/disability issues in my current work. I know it is not what I want, but I also know that that doesn't mean that I am somehow doing better than somebody who chooses to work in the field of blindness. Regarding dating, I'll echo what Joe said. If you have a problem with dating a blind person, I would submit that you have an issue with your own view of blindness. I don't like losing potential partners because they "couldn't date a blind person." So, why should I, based on the same ignorant stereotypes or paltry conveniences a sighted partner would offer write off all blind people. Obviously, I'd be just as happy to end up with a sighted woman as a blind one, but do not view the visual acuity of a partner as a measure of their fitness or desirability. Just to be clear, Kirt, none of this is directed specifically at you, but some are prone to look down their noses at couples who have met through NFB or other blindness related organizations or events. Some blind folks I know with sighted spouses have an insufferable sense of smug satisfaction at having gotten a sighted partner. You can hear comments like "I wish more people would date outside the NFB." Or "I found somebody who is sighted, why does it seem so hard for people to break out of their blindness bubble?" The implication, of course, is that, irrespective of all other qualities, the sighted partner is superior to any blind partner, simply in virtue of being sighted. It makes me wonder how happy with their inferior blind selves these lucky people can really be. Finally, while it is true that the vast majority of the general public is sighted, it isn't necessarily true that the vast majority of a blind person's dating pool is sighted. If a blind person is involved with organizations or programs that place him or her into proximity with other blind people, it stands to reason that a significantly larger portion of their friends and/or potential dating partners will be blind as well. Many of my closest friends are blind. Several of the women with whom I have been romantically involved have been blind. Is this a negative reflection on my fitness for friendship or dating? Of course not. Nor is it a sign of social failure, just as having sighted friends is no measure of social success. We all have our own priorities, interests and desires, and these, not baseless notions about the superiority of working in a non-blindness-related field or dating a sighted person, should be the basis for the decisions we make about our lives, professional, romantic or otherwise. Take care, Sean From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 19:07:50 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:07:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Alice and all, First off, Alice, I'm sorry I couldn't see your emails...they all came as blank text to me. And, second, I feel like I should clarify my "homemaker" comment...as I'm sure it could be taken the wrong way. (and, Dave, forgive me if I go slightly off topic here.) I didn't mean to insinuate that my wife should be poorly educated, not capable of getting a good career, or less smart than me. On the contrary, I want to marry a woman who can work, who is intelligent, who has a great education, etc. All I was saying, and I gess this makes me fairly conservative and traditional...but I want to marry a woma who's a mother first. This will probably mean she's able to be home when the kids are home. And she'd better be able to cook, clean, etc. I sure as heck better be able to do all of those things too, because she's going to need a lot of help. I see myself as being the main breadwinner. It's going to be primarily my responsibility to work so my family has what we'll need. Just as I better know my way around the kitchen, my wife better know how to work because I'm sure she'll need to. I didn't mean to imply any kind of inequality in my future marriage...I see me and my wife being equal partners, who help each other fulfill our responsibilities. If anyone's curious why I feel this way in a world that's increasingly disregarding traditional gender roles, feel free to check out this link. http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,FF.html In any case, I feel like blind people can be totally capable spouses and parents. So, whoever I marry, blind or sighted, will be someone who understands and respects the need to make parenting the top priority. Warmest regards, Kirt On 2/10/11, alex wrote: > Dear all, > I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted > here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who > you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry > a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I > work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a > sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a > girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, > and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both > can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my > "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to > happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. > Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness > and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals > in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for > accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more > important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to > advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it > myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the > Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it > makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a > characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such > a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a > nuisence...but, that's just me. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: >> I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. >> HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what >> African people think of blind people. African blind men marry >> sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a >> Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. >> That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we >> will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee >> he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good >> old-fashioned love." >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list'" > Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble >> >> On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted >> man, who >> wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could >> drive me, who >> could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my >> blindness, nor >> even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run >> my >> blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now >> with that >> said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit >> more >> challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly >> those things >> are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix >> me; he is >> okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick >> out of making >> jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. >> My husband >> was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that >> sense, we >> understand the struggles that go along with being married to a >> sighted >> person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the >> NFB, or >> because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me >> better. We >> married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at >> the 2009 >> Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend >> Youth Slam >> to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The >> seriousness of >> it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there >> he was. >> Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, >> how >> independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not >> deal with >> his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the >> relationship >> forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think >> it was >> cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God >> had >> something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. >> >> But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of >> understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide >> dog users, >> or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry >> blind >> people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the >> transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. >> You should >> marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will >> treat you >> well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. >> >> So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So >> what blind >> people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, >> marry, >> date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they >> have or do >> not have, but who they are. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble >> >> Hello, >> >> Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how >> blind people >> want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up >> married to >> other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of >> course up to the >> individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of >> the very >> same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst >> ourselves. >> >> In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for >> people to >> get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people >> should be tied >> at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience >> is to take >> what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, >> where it >> really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed >> to a >> heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from >> observing >> other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. >> Something as >> simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food >> court and >> head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for >> me in high >> school and played a key role in my personal development later in >> college. >> Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are >> likely to >> develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance >> of >> following you for the long-term. >> >> Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS >> or Apple >> or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a >> point about >> running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching >> opportunity. >> Training should not just be about what you can take away, but >> also, what you >> can give back. You just might be the person who can help out >> this sheltered >> individual. >> >> The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic >> fashion. >> At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating >> and/or marrying >> another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's >> own >> insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they >> themselves feel >> more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things >> are easy >> when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the >> conveniences >> from such things like the sighted person being able to drive >> their blind >> spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers >> for >> ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not >> what's going >> to make a relationship work. >> >> All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness >> bubble that >> do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if >> my views >> are sorely mistaken. >> >> I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become >> complacent with >> their landscape to the point that their views become a bit >> limited. Working >> in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is >> all you do, >> I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of >> confidence. I'm >> not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and >> again, at the >> unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some >> ways it is >> almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even >> our >> National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even >> though the >> students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become >> an expert >> at what you do and expect your students or your membership to >> just learn it, >> use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a >> training center >> instructor to expect a student to become confident in the >> hypothetical span >> of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very >> well >> become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning >> environment will be significantly different when the person >> returns to the >> real world where there are no other blind people or instructors >> to keep the >> momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or >> chapter to >> just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more >> partnerships, >> but neither of these things are straightforward, even among >> sighted >> organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the >> need to work >> collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to >> create an >> all-inclusive environment. >> >> I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am >> also not >> suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are >> selling >> themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to >> fight what to >> me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we >> attract great >> professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer >> you work at >> something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I >> think there is >> an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it >> just turns >> people off, because these high standards are good within the >> blindness field >> but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general >> public. Just as >> professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are >> opportunities for >> blind professionals to get out there for a little while and >> refresh their >> understanding of the environment in which their charges are >> living. >> >> Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a >> negative tone. >> As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that >> we can >> examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the >> professionals. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >> Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr >> enth%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature >> database 5861 (20110210) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature >> database 5862 (20110210) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 19:13:21 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:13:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] As promised, Aplia post. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, That's a problem. Contact someone in the technology department like Curtis Chong for advice. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] As promised, Aplia post. I'm in a business communications class in college. The online workbook for this class is called Aplia. You can go to www.aplia.com, sign in via your E-mail address, and put your date of birth as your password. That is the only password these college sites accept. Once you've joined Aplia, you can read the questions, and do the assignments. This is only for those of you that are taking Business Communications classes, that use the program, this isn't for just anyone. I'm bringing this up, because the Jaws doesn't read all of the text to me, and I have to have a reader, in order to do this work. When the Jaws does read it, I can read the questions, but when I check the answers, it won't tell me if I've answered the questions or not. My instructor has E-mailed them about this problem, but they haven't responded to her. If they don't respond, I think it would be wise for the NFB to get involved. There may be more blind students using this program, and it needs to be compatible with the Jaws program. If this company doesn't do their duty, as written in the IDEA, there could be legal troubles awaiting them. I just want to know, how many of you are in Business Communications classes, or have taken them, using Aplia. Blessings, Joshua _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 19:21:19 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:21:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: <000301cbc955$2158c520$640a4f60$@com> References: <000301cbc955$2158c520$640a4f60$@com> Message-ID: Sean, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. And, as I said, I admire greatly people who choose to devote their professional and volunteer lives to the blindness field. We need that. I respect it. But, as you said, it's not for me. At least not as a major part of my life. Causes like interfaith dialogue and economic responsibility mean a great more to me than blindness and, I assure you, have impacted me on a much, much deeper level. Yes, it is true that blindness does mean more than hair color or eye color or what have you...there are many other individual traits which impact me much more than blindness. I'm lazy, I'm outgoing (sometimes), I'm a political Conservative. I'm a Mormon. I have a passion for the law. I like public speaki9ng and writing. I am an Eagle Scout...and those values in the Scout Oath and Law, which I hope I have even a little bit of, effect me so much more than blindness ever could. So, with respect, I disagree that blindness is one of the most influential characteristics in my life. As for a blind person's dating pool...you're right. It certainly could contain a lot of blind people, mine doesn't. That's all I'm saying. Take care, Kirt On 2/10/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > Kirt, > > While I agree with much of what you are saying, it leads me to a few general > observations: > > First, blindness is neither a minor inconvenience nor a nuisance. If it > were, would we really need NFB, ACB, AFB, etc.? No, we would not. It is a > characteristic, of course, but pointing out that it is a characteristic > offers no insight into the impact blindness has on one's life. I am willing > to bet that, for most of us, our blindness has a greater impact on our day > to day lives than our hair color. This isn't to say that we, as blind > people, cannot achieve most anything we strive for, but I do think one's > blindness, both for social reasons and for reasons related to the inherent > nature of blindness, does present us with unique challenges to overcome and > problems to address. > > You say that there are things that are more important to you than work on > blindness issues, and that is good, as long as you realize that, in some > sense, there are very few things more important to you and your life > prospects. Something can be important to you in the sense that you care a > lot about it, or it can be important to you in the sense that it effects you > greatly and has a substantial impact on your life. I certainly have > interests beyond blindness. I am very politically active, I volunteer in > capacities not related to blindness, and I care deeply about a broad range > of issues. Equal access to a quality education, for instance, is something > that is very important to me, but without generations of blind people, and > some sighted people too, fighting to ensure that blind folks have life > opportunities, I wouldn't be in the position I am to work on things that I > care about. What I mean to say is that, whether each of us desires to work > in the blindness field or make NFB work a large part of our volunteerism or > not, I hope we can all recognize that the efforts of people who came before > us, as well as those being currently undertaken, matter greatly. > > If we start viewing work in the blindness field as second rate, we are not > serving our cause well. True though it is that I have seen people take > blindness related jobs because, in my opinion, it was the easier road, we > must never demean or devalue the work of those who have the passion, > dedication and desire to choose to work in the blindness field. I, for one, > am glad that we have a highly competent and professional staff at NFB in > Baltimore, and I rejoice in capable blind role models choosing to teach > blind kids. Blindness work is not next best, it is important and meaningful > work. I don't want to work in the blindness field, and, in fact, have had to > make a real effort to avoid being pigeonholed into blindness/disability > issues in my current work. I know it is not what I want, but I also know > that that doesn't mean that I am somehow doing better than somebody who > chooses to work in the field of blindness. > > Regarding dating, I'll echo what Joe said. If you have a problem with dating > a blind person, I would submit that you have an issue with your own view of > blindness. I don't like losing potential partners because they "couldn't > date a blind person." So, why should I, based on the same ignorant > stereotypes or paltry conveniences a sighted partner would offer write off > all blind people. Obviously, I'd be just as happy to end up with a sighted > woman as a blind one, but do not view the visual acuity of a partner as a > measure of their fitness or desirability. > > Just to be clear, Kirt, none of this is directed specifically at you, but > some are prone to look down their noses at couples who have met through NFB > or other blindness related organizations or events. Some blind folks I know > with sighted spouses have an insufferable sense of smug satisfaction at > having gotten a sighted partner. You can hear comments like "I wish more > people would date outside the NFB." Or "I found somebody who is sighted, why > does it seem so hard for people to break out of their blindness bubble?" The > implication, of course, is that, irrespective of all other qualities, the > sighted partner is superior to any blind partner, simply in virtue of being > sighted. It makes me wonder how happy with their inferior blind selves these > lucky people can really be. > > Finally, while it is true that the vast majority of the general public is > sighted, it isn't necessarily true that the vast majority of a blind > person's dating pool is sighted. If a blind person is involved with > organizations or programs that place him or her into proximity with other > blind people, it stands to reason that a significantly larger portion of > their friends and/or potential dating partners will be blind as well. Many > of my closest friends are blind. Several of the women with whom I have been > romantically involved have been blind. Is this a negative reflection on my > fitness for friendship or dating? Of course not. Nor is it a sign of social > failure, just as having sighted friends is no measure of social success. We > all have our own priorities, interests and desires, and these, not baseless > notions about the superiority of working in a non-blindness-related field or > dating a sighted person, should be the basis for the decisions we make about > our lives, professional, romantic or otherwise. > > Take care, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 19:35:36 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:35:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble In-Reply-To: References: <4d5410da.a7fed80a.29d0.0adf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5EC68A801B7C45D68C47A713B67A2CAD@OwnerPC> Kirt, Good post! Consider the relationship and skill level if you want a woman homemaker. Blind or sighted, some wives are not good cooks or housekeepers. I understand where you're coming from; a parent needs to be there for their kid; studies indicate negative impact when going to childcare. Glad you clarified; now your decission/view makes more sense. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble Alice and all, First off, Alice, I'm sorry I couldn't see your emails...they all came as blank text to me. And, second, I feel like I should clarify my "homemaker" comment...as I'm sure it could be taken the wrong way. (and, Dave, forgive me if I go slightly off topic here.) I didn't mean to insinuate that my wife should be poorly educated, not capable of getting a good career, or less smart than me. On the contrary, I want to marry a woman who can work, who is intelligent, who has a great education, etc. All I was saying, and I gess this makes me fairly conservative and traditional...but I want to marry a woma who's a mother first. This will probably mean she's able to be home when the kids are home. And she'd better be able to cook, clean, etc. I sure as heck better be able to do all of those things too, because she's going to need a lot of help. I see myself as being the main breadwinner. It's going to be primarily my responsibility to work so my family has what we'll need. Just as I better know my way around the kitchen, my wife better know how to work because I'm sure she'll need to. I didn't mean to imply any kind of inequality in my future marriage...I see me and my wife being equal partners, who help each other fulfill our responsibilities. If anyone's curious why I feel this way in a world that's increasingly disregarding traditional gender roles, feel free to check out this link. http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,FF.html In any case, I feel like blind people can be totally capable spouses and parents. So, whoever I marry, blind or sighted, will be someone who understands and respects the need to make parenting the top priority. Warmest regards, Kirt On 2/10/11, alex wrote: > Dear all, > I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted > here, so far. Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who > you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry > a blind person. Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I > work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a > sighted person I eventually marry. Let's say I fall in love with a > girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, > and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both > can travel independently where we need to go...great. But because my > "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to > happen. If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter. > Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness > and blind issues their livelyhoods. I know we need good professionals > in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for > accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more > important to me. I admire people who devote their time and energy to > advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it > myself...but I hope to do much, much more. And so many people in the > Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it > makes me think "wait a minute. Isn't this only supposed to be a > characteristic? A minor inconvenience?" I don't want to devote such > a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a > nuisence...but, that's just me. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/10/11, Beth wrote: >> I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. >> HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what >> African people think of blind people. African blind men marry >> sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a >> Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. >> That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we >> will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee >> he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good >> old-fashioned love." >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marsha Drenth" > To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list'" > Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble >> >> On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted >> man, who >> wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could >> drive me, who >> could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my >> blindness, nor >> even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run >> my >> blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now >> with that >> said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit >> more >> challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly >> those things >> are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix >> me; he is >> okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick >> out of making >> jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. >> My husband >> was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that >> sense, we >> understand the struggles that go along with being married to a >> sighted >> person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the >> NFB, or >> because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me >> better. We >> married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at >> the 2009 >> Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend >> Youth Slam >> to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The >> seriousness of >> it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there >> he was. >> Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, >> how >> independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not >> deal with >> his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the >> relationship >> forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think >> it was >> cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God >> had >> something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. >> >> But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of >> understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide >> dog users, >> or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry >> blind >> people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the >> transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. >> You should >> marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will >> treat you >> well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. >> >> So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So >> what blind >> people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, >> marry, >> date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they >> have or do >> not have, but who they are. >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble >> >> Hello, >> >> Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how >> blind people >> want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up >> married to >> other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of >> course up to the >> individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of >> the very >> same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst >> ourselves. >> >> In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for >> people to >> get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people >> should be tied >> at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience >> is to take >> what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, >> where it >> really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed >> to a >> heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from >> observing >> other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. >> Something as >> simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food >> court and >> head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for >> me in high >> school and played a key role in my personal development later in >> college. >> Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are >> likely to >> develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance >> of >> following you for the long-term. >> >> Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS >> or Apple >> or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a >> point about >> running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching >> opportunity. >> Training should not just be about what you can take away, but >> also, what you >> can give back. You just might be the person who can help out >> this sheltered >> individual. >> >> The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic >> fashion. >> At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating >> and/or marrying >> another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's >> own >> insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they >> themselves feel >> more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things >> are easy >> when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the >> conveniences >> from such things like the sighted person being able to drive >> their blind >> spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers >> for >> ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not >> what's going >> to make a relationship work. >> >> All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness >> bubble that >> do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if >> my views >> are sorely mistaken. >> >> I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become >> complacent with >> their landscape to the point that their views become a bit >> limited. Working >> in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is >> all you do, >> I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of >> confidence. I'm >> not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and >> again, at the >> unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some >> ways it is >> almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even >> our >> National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even >> though the >> students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become >> an expert >> at what you do and expect your students or your membership to >> just learn it, >> use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a >> training center >> instructor to expect a student to become confident in the >> hypothetical span >> of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very >> well >> become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning >> environment will be significantly different when the person >> returns to the >> real world where there are no other blind people or instructors >> to keep the >> momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or >> chapter to >> just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more >> partnerships, >> but neither of these things are straightforward, even among >> sighted >> organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the >> need to work >> collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to >> create an >> all-inclusive environment. >> >> I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am >> also not >> suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are >> selling >> themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to >> fight what to >> me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we >> attract great >> professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer >> you work at >> something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I >> think there is >> an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it >> just turns >> people off, because these high standards are good within the >> blindness field >> but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general >> public. Just as >> professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are >> opportunities for >> blind professionals to get out there for a little while and >> refresh their >> understanding of the environment in which their charges are >> living. >> >> Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a >> negative tone. >> As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that >> we can >> examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the >> professionals. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >> Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr >> enth%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature >> database 5861 (20110210) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature >> database 5862 (20110210) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 19:38:33 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:38:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridget, First off, I'm fairly involved with the NFB, especially on a local level. I went to Washington Seminar, I've been to a few conventions, I won a scholarship, I'm vice president of our state student devision. I'm not isolating myself from the blind community at all. But it's a small part of my life. I respect you for marrying a blind man and make no judgements whatsoever. I've seen blind people marry who didn't have the skills they needed to get married, and I've seen others who make it work. The only reason I say I probably won't marry a blind person is because most of my friends aren't blind. And, from my experience, my friends have stuck by me and learned to see that blindness is just a part of me...a big enough part that I'm going to get training so it doesn't hold me back, but a characteristic nonetheless. And, from my experience, most of my sighted friends are ok with that. Warmest regards, Kirt On 2/10/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Curt, > > It is true, especially for those involved in the Federation, we may tend > to spend a lot of time with other blind folk, and yes, there may be a > line to watch, but we like who we like too. > > We should not isolate ourselves from the sighted world, but there is > nothing wrong either with being friends with other blind people or even > marrying them. As humans, we connect with certain people and we > shouldn't base any of our relationships on disability, or any other > reason. > > As blind people, we tend to draw lines at times. We don't have to count > up our relationships and divvy people up. Oh, too many blind friends, I > must cut back so I don't come across as only liking "my kind." *smile* > > I am not making judgements either, but I have learned that you have to > live your life and do what you want-- don't base it on what others want, > or by others standards. > > I was sighted for 22 years, and before losing my vision, I did not know > any blind people. I still am friends with those people, but I also have > met people whose company I enjoy and they happen to be blind. > > I am one of those who married a blind person, but, like you, I had no > intention of doing this. When I met him, though, sparks flew. I > couldn't deny the connection! LOL > > Obviously, at training centers, we are around other blind people because > we are all learning skills and what not, but the point of good training > is to give you the skills and confidence to go home and go into your > community to be an equal, vital member of society. > > However, I do have this to say. Many of my sighted friends grew > uncomfortable with my blindness. I did not change, I still enjoyed > doing the same things, but some of my friends could not get past the > blindness. We grew apart because they could not "deal" with my > blindness even though I did not act differently. Others have > experienced this and we find our blind friends tend to stick closer. > Again, people are people, and sighted or blind, true friends care about > you and remain a part of your life. > > The point is that no one-- blind or sighted, should base, or judge, > their relationships on a disability. Saying you have no intention of > spending time with other blind people is like, to me, the same as > sighted people saying they will not hang out with blind people. > > I know your concern is that you do not currently have involvement in > groups or activities that include other blind people, but be careful > that you are not excluding us because you are trying to avoid some > stereotype. > > Point-- live life and say F U to anyone who gives you flack for how you > live your life. > > Bridgit > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 13:37:37 -0700 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear Beth, Tara and all, > Is it hard to get involved with the community outside the center? Let > me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make sense. > I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in mind I'm not calling > anyone out or judging), who graduated from the training centers and now > spend their lives mostly with other blind people. There's nothing wrong > with that, it's just not for me. I'm probably not going to marry a > blind person or seriously date a blind person...simply because most of > my friends aren't blind. So, with that in mind, I'm going to want to > find ways to get involved in the community at large, at whichever center > I decide is right for me. So...do you think I'll be discouraged or > austricized if I choose to spend lots of my free time with church > groups, volunteer programs, other friends I might find outside the > center, etc? Because I think the worst thing that could happen to me is > to get caught in a "blind bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, > hang out with center people all the time, and miss out on whatever other > opportunities I might find living away from home for such a long time. > Don't get me wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a > great time. But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on > my own like this. Thoughts, anyone? > Kirt > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 19:52:00 2011 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:52:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Bubble? Message-ID: Hi all, I couldn't help but comment on the following. "Let's say I fall in love with a girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both can travel independently where we need to go...great.  But because my "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to happen." I'm curious, in the example above, would any girl you want to be with have to be a "competent homemaker," or is it specific to this hypothetical blind girl? Another question: There is mention of the dating pool being filled with sighted women, am I correct to assume that you often, or mostly have experience with dating sighted women? Most people are sighted, so unless one is heavily involved in the blind community, most of everyone's dating pool will be sighted as well. Thanks, Alex From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Feb 10 19:56:00 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:56:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian: You can't let centers do that to you. Its like you're not human. I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? And you still call it good? On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > Hi again, > > Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB > centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it > was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind > than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have > been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are > recently losing more vision. > > Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers > discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating > between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not > discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play > "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are > active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. > Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB > centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no > expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student > and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the > center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be > distracted during their training by such things. Either way is > perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >> gap. >> >> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >> >> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >> at all. >> >> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >> >> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >> was nothing to be so worried about. >> >> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >> instructors and by myself. >> >> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>> well, >>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>> attend >>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>> are >>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in >>> a >>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>> sense. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>> outside the center? >>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>> sense. >>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>> mind I'm not >>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>> training >>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>> people. >>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>> me. I'm probably >>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>> blind >>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>> blind. So, with >>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>> involved in the >>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>> for me. >>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>> choose to >>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>> programs, >>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>> Because I think >>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>> a "blind >>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>> center >>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>> opportunities I >>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>> time. Don't get me >>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>> great time. >>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>> my own like >>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>> learn the >>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>> easier. Tara, I >>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>> Daytona Beach, >>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>> rules such >>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>> wing, and there >>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>> people are treated >>>> > like people. >>>> > Beth >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Tara Annis >>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>> >>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> > >>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>> semesters at >>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>> blind and also took >>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>> would like >>>> > to provide some insight. >>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>> have above >>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>> the NFB center, >>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>> could walk >>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>> miles. I >>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>> instructor had >>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>> less. I thought >>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>> new place they >>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>> grill. >>>> > Some observations: >>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>> medication >>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>> the real world, >>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>> > >>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>> you showed up to >>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>> as you >>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>> should be treated >>>> > like them. >>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>> > >>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>> for lunch. >>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>> need to make sure >>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>> didn't need to >>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>> it. At other >>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>> caught using a >>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>> dark glasses when >>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>> look into >>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>> at by the public. >>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>> > >>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>> public can >>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>> blindness. I have >>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>> to blind people >>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>> that they >>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>> well. Yet, the >>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>> into >>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>> person to feel >>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>> blind person >>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>> intermediate >>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>> and just >>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info >>>> > for nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 19:57:50 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:57:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Bubble? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex, See my earlier post- that will answer your question. But yes, whoever I marry should be able to be a good mom, which includes at least being a compitent homemaker. And, yes, most girls I've dated are sighted. All theBest, Kirt On 2/10/11, Alexander Castillo wrote: > Hi all, I couldn't help but comment on the following. > > "Let's say I fall in love with a > girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker, > and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both > can travel independently where we need to go...great.  But because my > "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to > happen." > > I'm curious, in the example above, would any girl you want to be with > have to be a "competent homemaker," or is it specific to this > hypothetical blind girl? > > Another question: There is mention of the dating pool being filled > with sighted women, am I correct to assume that you often, or mostly > have experience with dating sighted women? > > Most people are sighted, so unless one is heavily involved in the > blind community, most of everyone's dating pool will be sighted as > well. > > Thanks, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 20:03:31 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:03:31 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello list, I find that one thing that is important to think about, but not as easy to practice is not to analyze too deeply the connections we have with people. I can say, that I have the sighted friends that I do because I have a connection with them. I can say the same for my blind friends too. But, am I going to have the same conversations with my sighted friends as my blind ones? in some senses, I absolutely will- I'll talk about politics, music, fashion, food, and enjoy those conversations just the same. Now, will I talk about Braille, good training, blind parenting and the like with my sighted friends? some, but largely not so much. I think one of the biggest concerns blind people have in getting to know sighted peers is the initial awkward moments; the person who grabs you out of seemingly no where, the people who ask you about your note taker during class, when all you want is to focus on your work, or just having a normal conversation. Those are the things you don't really get trained on, those are the things that could probably get to bevery real, very frustrating and even scary. We maybe as confident in reading our braille or cooking that amazing seven-layer cake, but the interpersonal communication controlsalot of our comfort in who we will befriend and marry. just some thoughts. Darian On 2/10/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Bridget, > First off, I'm fairly involved with the NFB, especially on a local > level. I went to Washington Seminar, I've been to a few conventions, > I won a scholarship, I'm vice president of our state student devision. > I'm not isolating myself from the blind community at all. But it's a > small part of my life. I respect you for marrying a blind man and > make no judgements whatsoever. I've seen blind people marry who > didn't have the skills they needed to get married, and I've seen > others who make it work. The only reason I say I probably won't marry > a blind person is because most of my friends aren't blind. And, from > my experience, my friends have stuck by me and learned to see that > blindness is just a part of me...a big enough part that I'm going to > get training so it doesn't hold me back, but a characteristic > nonetheless. And, from my experience, most of my sighted friends are > ok with that. > Warmest regards, > Kirt > > On 2/10/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Curt, >> >> It is true, especially for those involved in the Federation, we may tend >> to spend a lot of time with other blind folk, and yes, there may be a >> line to watch, but we like who we like too. >> >> We should not isolate ourselves from the sighted world, but there is >> nothing wrong either with being friends with other blind people or even >> marrying them. As humans, we connect with certain people and we >> shouldn't base any of our relationships on disability, or any other >> reason. >> >> As blind people, we tend to draw lines at times. We don't have to count >> up our relationships and divvy people up. Oh, too many blind friends, I >> must cut back so I don't come across as only liking "my kind." *smile* >> >> I am not making judgements either, but I have learned that you have to >> live your life and do what you want-- don't base it on what others want, >> or by others standards. >> >> I was sighted for 22 years, and before losing my vision, I did not know >> any blind people. I still am friends with those people, but I also have >> met people whose company I enjoy and they happen to be blind. >> >> I am one of those who married a blind person, but, like you, I had no >> intention of doing this. When I met him, though, sparks flew. I >> couldn't deny the connection! LOL >> >> Obviously, at training centers, we are around other blind people because >> we are all learning skills and what not, but the point of good training >> is to give you the skills and confidence to go home and go into your >> community to be an equal, vital member of society. >> >> However, I do have this to say. Many of my sighted friends grew >> uncomfortable with my blindness. I did not change, I still enjoyed >> doing the same things, but some of my friends could not get past the >> blindness. We grew apart because they could not "deal" with my >> blindness even though I did not act differently. Others have >> experienced this and we find our blind friends tend to stick closer. >> Again, people are people, and sighted or blind, true friends care about >> you and remain a part of your life. >> >> The point is that no one-- blind or sighted, should base, or judge, >> their relationships on a disability. Saying you have no intention of >> spending time with other blind people is like, to me, the same as >> sighted people saying they will not hang out with blind people. >> >> I know your concern is that you do not currently have involvement in >> groups or activities that include other blind people, but be careful >> that you are not excluding us because you are trying to avoid some >> stereotype. >> >> Point-- live life and say F U to anyone who gives you flack for how you >> live your life. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 13:37:37 -0700 >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >> Is it hard to get involved with the community outside the center? Let >> me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make sense. >> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in mind I'm not calling >> anyone out or judging), who graduated from the training centers and now >> spend their lives mostly with other blind people. There's nothing wrong >> with that, it's just not for me. I'm probably not going to marry a >> blind person or seriously date a blind person...simply because most of >> my friends aren't blind. So, with that in mind, I'm going to want to >> find ways to get involved in the community at large, at whichever center >> I decide is right for me. So...do you think I'll be discouraged or >> austricized if I choose to spend lots of my free time with church >> groups, volunteer programs, other friends I might find outside the >> center, etc? Because I think the worst thing that could happen to me is >> to get caught in a "blind bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, >> hang out with center people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >> opportunities I might find living away from home for such a long time. >> Don't get me wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >> great time. But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >> my own like this. Thoughts, anyone? >> Kirt >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From graduate56 at juno.com Thu Feb 10 21:05:58 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:05:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <732D3FC25B3742B9BE5F72E359ACF3F2@melissa> Its been my experience, that like many centers, the staff are discouraged from dating students. I totally agree with this pollecy of students and staff not dating. I should say, that I hope this pollecy is frowned upon and discouraged in the centers. Blessings and kind regards, Melissa Green Each person must live their life as a model for others. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hi again, Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are recently losing more vision. Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be distracted during their training by such things. Either way is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Arielle On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a > training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. > Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone > to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in > the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully > gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many > "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana > Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the > other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and > anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a > short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think > attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center > training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood > blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation > in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel > appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, > then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, > like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more > of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these > issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge > gap. > > In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in > Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your > time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and > sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time > is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some > exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to > sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time > during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; > I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). > > As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB > centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an > individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are > struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a > plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being > overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great > range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I > thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good > job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, > you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than > six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" > but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, > work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the > more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none > at all. > > There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think > the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their > students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, > but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the > sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had > growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and > respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in > completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, > challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also > being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the > skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us > independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we > needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ > alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear > to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care > about the students and their progress even after graduation. > > The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. > Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction > where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the > route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a > suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my > own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a > sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I > frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel > instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated > getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going > the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much > attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most > intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a > lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I > couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and > perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell > when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time > working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding > addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor > would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was > on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I > really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal > directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked > on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk > in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to > go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a > business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to > traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there > was nothing to be so worried about. > > I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in > August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even > an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair > amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't > get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More > importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more > quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before > training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at > intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or > stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I > was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my > condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without > a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I > would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my > mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross > streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would > have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB > training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with > me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I > spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with > instructors and by myself. > > Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a > different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can > experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center > for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life > between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe > alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring > NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can > receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their > homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, > though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning > out competent, self-reliant graduates. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >> well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >> attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >> are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in >> a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>> outside the center? >>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>> sense. >>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>> mind I'm not >>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>> training >>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>> people. >>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>> me. I'm probably >>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>> blind >>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>> blind. So, with >>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>> involved in the >>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>> for me. >>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>> choose to >>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>> programs, >>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>> Because I think >>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>> a "blind >>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>> center >>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>> opportunities I >>> might find living away from home for such a long >>> time. Don't get me >>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>> great time. >>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>> my own like >>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>> wrote: >>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>> learn the >>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>> easier. Tara, I >>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>> Daytona Beach, >>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>> rules such >>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>> wing, and there >>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>> people are treated >>> > like people. >>> > Beth >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Tara Annis >> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> > >>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>> semesters at >>> > college. I attended the school for the >>> blind and also took >>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>> would like >>> > to provide some insight. >>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>> have above >>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>> the NFB center, >>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>> could walk >>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>> miles. I >>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>> instructor had >>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>> less. I thought >>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>> new place they >>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>> grill. >>> > Some observations: >>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>> medication >>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>> the real world, >>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>> > >>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>> you showed up to >>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>> as you >>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>> should be treated >>> > like them. >>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>> > >>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>> for lunch. >>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>> need to make sure >>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>> didn't need to >>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>> > >>> > >>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>> it. At other >>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>> caught using a >>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>> dark glasses when >>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>> look into >>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>> at by the public. >>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>> > >>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>> public can >>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>> blindness. I have >>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>> to blind people >>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>> that they >>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>> well. Yet, the >>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>> into >>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>> person to feel >>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>> > >>> > >>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>> blind person >>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>> intermediate >>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>> and just >>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info >>> > for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Feb 10 21:20:00 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:20:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <732D3FC25B3742B9BE5F72E359ACF3F2@melissa> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <732D3FC25B3742B9BE5F72E359ACF3F2@melissa> Message-ID: <2B82F840-F481-4C5C-A9A7-4ACFD0D98E8E@mac.com> Of course staff dating students is discouraged. I think we were talking about students dating amongst themselves. Jorge On Feb 10, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Melissa Green wrote: > Its been my experience, that like many centers, the staff are discouraged from dating students. > I totally agree with this pollecy of students and staff not dating. > I should say, that I hope this pollecy is frowned upon and discouraged in the centers. > Blessings and kind regards, > Melissa Green > Each person must live their life as a model for others. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:41 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > Hi again, > > Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB > centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it > was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind > than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have > been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are > recently losing more vision. > > Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers > discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating > between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not > discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play > "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are > active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. > Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB > centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no > expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student > and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the > center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be > distracted during their training by such things. Either way is > perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >> gap. >> >> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >> >> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >> at all. >> >> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >> >> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >> was nothing to be so worried about. >> >> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >> instructors and by myself. >> >> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>> well, >>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>> attend >>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>> are >>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in >>> a >>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>> sense. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>> outside the center? >>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>> sense. >>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>> mind I'm not >>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>> training >>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>> people. >>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>> me. I'm probably >>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>> blind >>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>> blind. So, with >>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>> involved in the >>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>> for me. >>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>> choose to >>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>> programs, >>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>> Because I think >>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>> a "blind >>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>> center >>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>> opportunities I >>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>> time. Don't get me >>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>> great time. >>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>> my own like >>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>> learn the >>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>> easier. Tara, I >>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>> Daytona Beach, >>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>> rules such >>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>> wing, and there >>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>> people are treated >>>> > like people. >>>> > Beth >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Tara Annis >>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>> >>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> > >>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>> semesters at >>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>> blind and also took >>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>> would like >>>> > to provide some insight. >>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>> have above >>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>> the NFB center, >>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>> could walk >>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>> miles. I >>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>> instructor had >>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>> less. I thought >>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>> new place they >>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>> grill. >>>> > Some observations: >>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>> medication >>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>> the real world, >>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>> > >>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>> you showed up to >>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>> as you >>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>> should be treated >>>> > like them. >>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>> > >>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>> for lunch. >>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>> need to make sure >>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>> didn't need to >>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>> it. At other >>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>> caught using a >>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>> dark glasses when >>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>> look into >>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>> at by the public. >>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>> > >>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>> public can >>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>> blindness. I have >>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>> to blind people >>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>> that they >>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>> well. Yet, the >>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>> into >>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>> person to feel >>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>> blind person >>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>> intermediate >>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>> and just >>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info >>>> > for nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 21:25:32 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:25:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <732D3FC25B3742B9BE5F72E359ACF3F2@melissa> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <732D3FC25B3742B9BE5F72E359ACF3F2@melissa> Message-ID: <1CEC23AC403A449C811429966D821489@OwnerPC> Yikes, I hope so. Staff shouldn't date students. Then you cannot have a teacher - student relationship, regardless of the center. -----Original Message----- From: Melissa Green Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:05 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Its been my experience, that like many centers, the staff are discouraged from dating students. I totally agree with this pollecy of students and staff not dating. I should say, that I hope this pollecy is frowned upon and discouraged in the centers. Blessings and kind regards, Melissa Green Each person must live their life as a model for others. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hi again, Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are recently losing more vision. Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be distracted during their training by such things. Either way is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Arielle On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a > training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. > Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone > to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in > the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully > gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many > "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana > Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the > other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and > anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a > short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think > attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center > training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood > blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation > in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel > appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, > then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, > like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more > of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these > issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge > gap. > > In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in > Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your > time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and > sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time > is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some > exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to > sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time > during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; > I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). > > As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB > centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an > individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are > struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a > plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being > overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great > range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I > thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good > job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, > you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than > six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" > but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, > work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the > more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none > at all. > > There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think > the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their > students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, > but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the > sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had > growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and > respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in > completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, > challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also > being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the > skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us > independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we > needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ > alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear > to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care > about the students and their progress even after graduation. > > The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. > Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction > where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the > route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a > suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my > own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a > sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I > frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel > instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated > getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going > the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much > attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most > intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a > lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I > couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and > perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell > when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time > working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding > addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor > would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was > on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I > really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal > directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked > on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk > in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to > go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a > business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to > traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there > was nothing to be so worried about. > > I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in > August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even > an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair > amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't > get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More > importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more > quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before > training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at > intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or > stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I > was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my > condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without > a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I > would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my > mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross > streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would > have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB > training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with > me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I > spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with > instructors and by myself. > > Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a > different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can > experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center > for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life > between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe > alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring > NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can > receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their > homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, > though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning > out competent, self-reliant graduates. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >> well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >> attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >> are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in >> a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>> outside the center? >>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>> sense. >>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>> mind I'm not >>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>> training >>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>> people. >>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>> me. I'm probably >>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>> blind >>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>> blind. So, with >>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>> involved in the >>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>> for me. >>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>> choose to >>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>> programs, >>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>> Because I think >>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>> a "blind >>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>> center >>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>> opportunities I >>> might find living away from home for such a long >>> time. Don't get me >>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>> great time. >>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>> my own like >>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>> wrote: >>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>> learn the >>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>> easier. Tara, I >>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>> Daytona Beach, >>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>> rules such >>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>> wing, and there >>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>> people are treated >>> > like people. >>> > Beth >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Tara Annis >> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> > >>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>> semesters at >>> > college. I attended the school for the >>> blind and also took >>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>> would like >>> > to provide some insight. >>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>> have above >>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>> the NFB center, >>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>> could walk >>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>> miles. I >>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>> instructor had >>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>> less. I thought >>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>> new place they >>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>> grill. >>> > Some observations: >>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>> medication >>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>> the real world, >>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>> > >>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>> you showed up to >>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>> as you >>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>> should be treated >>> > like them. >>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>> > >>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>> for lunch. >>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>> need to make sure >>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>> didn't need to >>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>> > >>> > >>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>> it. At other >>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>> caught using a >>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>> dark glasses when >>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>> look into >>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>> at by the public. >>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>> > >>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>> public can >>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>> blindness. I have >>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>> to blind people >>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>> that they >>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>> well. Yet, the >>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>> into >>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>> person to feel >>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>> > >>> > >>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>> blind person >>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>> intermediate >>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>> and just >>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info >>> > for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From freespirit328 at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 21:32:13 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:32:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <4d5410d3.a7fed80a.29d0.0adc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I met my boyfriend when I was at the Carrol Center. They had issues with touching etc over there, but we didn't actually start dating until after we were both finished our programs, so it wasn't a big deal for me. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. lol Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi all, As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge gap. In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none at all. There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care about the students and their progress even after graduation. The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there was nothing to be so worried about. I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with instructors and by myself. Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning out competent, self-reliant graduates. Arielle On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: Kirt, Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two sense. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: From: Kirt Manwaring References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> George, There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking each other. In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low expectations. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Brian: You can't let centers do that to you. Its like you're not human. I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? And you still call it good? On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was > that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl > friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and right > when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. The > weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled into > my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and grilled > for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't scene her > in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people wouldn't > have raised hell about that tiny issue! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > Hi again, > > Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB > centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it > was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind > than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have > been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are > recently losing more vision. > > Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers > discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating > between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not > discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play > "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are > active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. > Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB > centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no > expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student > and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the > center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be > distracted during their training by such things. Either way is > perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >> gap. >> >> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >> >> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >> at all. >> >> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >> >> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >> was nothing to be so worried about. >> >> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >> instructors and by myself. >> >> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>> well, >>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>> attend >>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>> get >>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>> you >>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>> are >>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>> in >>> a >>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>> sense. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>> outside the center? >>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>> sense. >>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>> mind I'm not >>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>> training >>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>> people. >>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>> me. I'm probably >>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>> blind >>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>> blind. So, with >>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>> involved in the >>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>> for me. >>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>> choose to >>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>> programs, >>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>> Because I think >>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>> a "blind >>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>> center >>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>> opportunities I >>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>> time. Don't get me >>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>> great time. >>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>> my own like >>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>> learn the >>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>> easier. Tara, I >>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>> Daytona Beach, >>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>> rules such >>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>> wing, and there >>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>> people are treated >>>> > like people. >>>> > Beth >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Tara Annis >>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>> >>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> > >>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>> semesters at >>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>> blind and also took >>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>> would like >>>> > to provide some insight. >>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>> have above >>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>> the NFB center, >>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>> could walk >>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>> miles. I >>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>> instructor had >>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>> less. I thought >>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>> new place they >>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>> grill. >>>> > Some observations: >>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>> medication >>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>> the real world, >>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>> > >>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>> you showed up to >>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>> as you >>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>> should be treated >>>> > like them. >>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>> > >>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>> for lunch. >>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>> need to make sure >>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>> didn't need to >>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>> it. At other >>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>> caught using a >>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>> dark glasses when >>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>> look into >>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>> at by the public. >>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>> > >>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>> public can >>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>> blindness. I have >>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>> to blind people >>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>> that they >>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>> well. Yet, the >>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>> into >>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>> person to feel >>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>> blind person >>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>> intermediate >>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>> and just >>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info >>>> > for nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Thu Feb 10 21:54:35 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:54:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <732D3FC25B3742B9BE5F72E359ACF3F2@melissa> Message-ID: <004501cbc96d$1c38bdd0$9560c747@BRIAN> What if I was to meet a staff member at a center close to my age, graduate, and then down the road fall in love what that be a crime? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Its been my experience, that like many centers, the staff are discouraged > from dating students. > I totally agree with this pollecy of students and staff not dating. > I should say, that I hope this pollecy is frowned upon and discouraged in > the centers. > Blessings and kind regards, > Melissa Green > Each person must live their life as a model for others. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:41 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > Hi again, > > Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB > centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it > was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind > than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have > been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are > recently losing more vision. > > Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers > discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating > between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not > discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play > "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are > active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. > Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB > centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no > expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student > and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the > center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be > distracted during their training by such things. Either way is > perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >> gap. >> >> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >> >> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >> at all. >> >> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >> >> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >> was nothing to be so worried about. >> >> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >> instructors and by myself. >> >> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>> well, >>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>> attend >>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>> get >>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>> you >>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>> are >>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>> in >>> a >>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>> sense. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>> outside the center? >>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>> sense. >>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>> mind I'm not >>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>> training >>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>> people. >>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>> me. I'm probably >>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>> blind >>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>> blind. So, with >>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>> involved in the >>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>> for me. >>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>> choose to >>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>> programs, >>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>> Because I think >>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>> a "blind >>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>> center >>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>> opportunities I >>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>> time. Don't get me >>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>> great time. >>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>> my own like >>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>> wrote: >>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>> learn the >>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>> easier. Tara, I >>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>> Daytona Beach, >>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>> rules such >>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>> wing, and there >>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>> people are treated >>>> > like people. >>>> > Beth >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Tara Annis >>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>> >>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> > >>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>> semesters at >>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>> blind and also took >>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>> would like >>>> > to provide some insight. >>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>> have above >>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>> the NFB center, >>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>> could walk >>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>> miles. I >>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>> instructor had >>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>> less. I thought >>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>> new place they >>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>> grill. >>>> > Some observations: >>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>> medication >>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>> the real world, >>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>> > >>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>> you showed up to >>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>> as you >>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>> should be treated >>>> > like them. >>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>> > >>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>> for lunch. >>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>> need to make sure >>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>> didn't need to >>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>> it. At other >>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>> caught using a >>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>> dark glasses when >>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>> look into >>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>> at by the public. >>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>> > >>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>> public can >>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>> blindness. I have >>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>> to blind people >>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>> that they >>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>> well. Yet, the >>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>> into >>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>> person to feel >>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>> blind person >>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>> intermediate >>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>> and just >>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info >>>> > for nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Thu Feb 10 21:57:09 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:57:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <4d5410d3.a7fed80a.29d0.0adc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <004d01cbc96d$77fc1ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> @Jen were you at the center in 08 when I was their? Its Brian Hatgelakas! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Hi all, > > I met my boyfriend when I was at the Carrol Center. They had issues with > touching etc over there, but we didn't actually start dating until after > we were both finished our programs, so it wasn't a big deal for me. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > > As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and > he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with > open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. > lol > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:41:15 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hi again, > > Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at > NFB > centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, > it > was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up > blind > than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who > have > been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are > recently losing more vision. > > Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers > discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating > between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not > discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to > play > "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who > are > active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and > Mrs. > Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three > NFB > centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no > expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center > student > and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the > center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be > distracted during their training by such things. Either way is > perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at > a > training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind > person. > Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for > everyone > to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and > integration in > the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will > hopefully > gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have > as many > "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the > Louisiana > Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to > the > other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, > and > anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least > for a > short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't > think > attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, > center > training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood > blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid > foundation > in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel > appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these > areas, > then going to a center may not be as important to you as other > goals, > like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one > or more > of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of > these > issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that > knowledge > gap. > > In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in > Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, > your > time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, > and > sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free > time > is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches > and some > exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome > to > sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up > time > during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for > CCB; > I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). > > As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes > about NFB > centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as > an > individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are > struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to > develop a > plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being > overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a > great > range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities > and I > thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally > good > job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. > And, > you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less > than > six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom > bell" > but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of > school, > work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I > think the > more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than > none > at all. > > There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I > think > the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their > students is the most important. A few of the instructors are > sighted, > but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the > sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had > growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and > respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent > in > completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, > challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while > also > being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to > learn the > skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us > independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools > we > needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to > employ > alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also > clear > to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really > care > about the students and their progress even after graduation. > > The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of > travel. > Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M > instruction > where I learned that I could only go to places if I had > memorized the > route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in > a > suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around > on my > own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a > sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I > frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional > travel > instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I > hated > getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was > going > the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much > attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most > intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to > cross a > lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because > I > couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and > perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't > tell > when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent > time > working on these issues. I also spent many days going out > finding > addresses, often to places I had never been before. My > instructor > would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block > it was > on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the > place. I > really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal > directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also > worked > on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never > ever walk > in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I > had to > go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance > of a > business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had > to > traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that > there > was nothing to be so worried about. > > I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in > August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or > even > an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair > amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I > don't > get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. > More > importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more > quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before > training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at > intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no > light or > stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something > else I > was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway > for my > condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store > without > a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I > think I > would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my > mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to > cross > streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I > would > have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a > non-NFB > training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay > with > me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous > and I > spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with > instructors and by myself. > > Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a > different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can > experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB > center > for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in > life > between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe > alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to > bring > NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind > people can > receive this quality of instruction without having to leave > their > homes or their communities for several months. Until that > happens, > though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for > turning > out competent, self-reliant graduates. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Kirt, > Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know > you > well, > but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you > need to > attend > a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage > you to get > involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not > fall into > common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. > Like you > said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my > friends > are > also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and > will live in > a > sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their > comfert > zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just > my two > sense. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a > breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring > wrote: > > From: Kirt Manwaring Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM > Dear Beth, Tara and all, > Is it hard to get involved with the community > outside the center? > Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make > sense. > I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in > mind I'm not > calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the > training > centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind > people. > There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for > me. I'm probably > not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a > blind > person...simply because most of my friends aren't > blind. So, with > that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get > involved in the > community at large, at whichever center I decide is right > for me. > So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I > choose to > spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer > programs, > other friends I might find outside the center, etc? > Because I think > the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in > a "blind > bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with > center > people all the time, and miss out on whatever other > opportunities I > might find living away from home for such a long > time. Don't get me > wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a > great time. > But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on > my own like > this. Thoughts, anyone? > Kirt > > On 2/9/11, Beth wrote: > Training centers are a good way for blind people to > learn the > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it > easier. Tara, I > agree with you on all points. At a center in > Daytona Beach, > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of > rules such > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by > wing, and there > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind > people are treated > like people. > Beth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tara Annis To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I attended the Colorado Center program between > semesters at > college. I attended the school for the > blind and also took > some classes at a local association of the blind, so > would like > to provide some insight. > I do agree that blind people can be successful and > have above > average skills, even though they do not go to > the NFB center, > but this is really rare from my observations. > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people > could walk > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten > miles. I > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M > instructor had > taught them, and the route would be a mile or > less. I thought > blind people needed sighted guide for any > new place they > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal > grill. > Some observations: > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the > medication > you took. If you are supposed to be living in > the real world, > why have someone keep track of your meds? > > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as > you showed up to > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long > as you > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you > should be treated > like them. > Go to bed when you feel like it. > > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go > for lunch. > You just walked out the door. You didn't > need to make sure > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You > didn't need to > have a sighted person to come along to help out. > > > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of > it. At other > training centers, the instructors would never be > caught using a > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore > dark glasses when > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't > look into > their eyes. They did not like being stared > at by the public. > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. > > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the > public can > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand > blindness. I have > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying > to blind people > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and > that they > don't need a cane, since they get around so > well. Yet, the > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run > into > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind > person to feel > bad so that is why they make up these lies. > > > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a > blind person > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. > CCB knew that some of their students are at an > intermediate > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, > and just > came to CCB for advanced skills training. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info > for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbha > tia%40yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres > ident%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi > sloose%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From freespirit328 at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 22:14:57 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:14:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but looking back now, I think it was rather funny. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > George, > There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, > opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to > hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember > whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking each > other. > In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. > I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low > expectations. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Brian: > You can't let centers do that to you. > > Its like you're not human. > > I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? > > And you still call it good? > > > > On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > >> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was >> that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl >> friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and right >> when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. >> The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled >> into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and >> grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't >> scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center >> people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >> Hi again, >> >> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >> recently losing more vision. >> >> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>> gap. >>> >>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>> >>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>> at all. >>> >>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>> >>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>> >>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>> instructors and by myself. >>> >>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>> well, >>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>> attend >>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>> get >>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>> you >>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>> are >>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>> in >>>> a >>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>> comfert >>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>> sense. >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>> outside the center? >>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>> sense. >>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>> mind I'm not >>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>> training >>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>> people. >>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>> blind >>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>> blind. So, with >>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>> involved in the >>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>> for me. >>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>> choose to >>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>> programs, >>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>> Because I think >>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>> a "blind >>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>> center >>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>> opportunities I >>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>> great time. >>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>> my own like >>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>> learn the >>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>> rules such >>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>> wing, and there >>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>> people are treated >>>>> > like people. >>>>> > Beth >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>> >>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> > >>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>> semesters at >>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>> blind and also took >>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>> would like >>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>> have above >>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>> the NFB center, >>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>> could walk >>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>> miles. I >>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>> instructor had >>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>> less. I thought >>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>> new place they >>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>> grill. >>>>> > Some observations: >>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>> medication >>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>> the real world, >>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>> > >>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>> you showed up to >>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>> as you >>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>> should be treated >>>>> > like them. >>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>> > >>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>> for lunch. >>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>> need to make sure >>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>> didn't need to >>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>> it. At other >>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>> caught using a >>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>> dark glasses when >>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>> look into >>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>> at by the public. >>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>> > >>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>> public can >>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>> blindness. I have >>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>> to blind people >>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>> that they >>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>> into >>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>> person to feel >>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>> blind person >>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>> intermediate >>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>> and just >>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info >>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 22:18:36 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:18:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <4d5410d3.a7fed80a.29d0.0adc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5AC6C780180A43E9A566AA8178D08971@OwnerPC> Jen, What program did you attend at carroll? Feel free to explain what you learned, pros and cons, of it off list. -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Aberdeen Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hi all, I met my boyfriend when I was at the Carrol Center. They had issues with touching etc over there, but we didn't actually start dating until after we were both finished our programs, so it wasn't a big deal for me. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. lol Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi all, As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge gap. In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none at all. There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care about the students and their progress even after graduation. The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there was nothing to be so worried about. I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with instructors and by myself. Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning out competent, self-reliant graduates. Arielle On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: Kirt, Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two sense. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: From: Kirt Manwaring <004d01cbc96d$77fc1ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Hi, I was there from September of 2008 until January of 2009. I have to say it was great there and lots of fun! I don't remember seeing you there though. Perhaps you were there in the spring... Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > @Jen were you at the center in 08 when I was their? Its Brian Hatgelakas! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:32 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> Hi all, >> >> I met my boyfriend when I was at the Carrol Center. They had issues with >> touching etc over there, but we didn't actually start dating until after >> we were both finished our programs, so it wasn't a big deal for me. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >> products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:21 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >> As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and >> he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with >> open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. >> lol >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:41:15 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Hi again, >> >> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at >> NFB >> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, >> it >> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up >> blind >> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who >> have >> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >> recently losing more vision. >> >> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to >> play >> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who >> are >> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and >> Mrs. >> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three >> NFB >> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center >> student >> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at >> a >> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind >> person. >> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for >> everyone >> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and >> integration in >> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will >> hopefully >> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have >> as many >> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the >> Louisiana >> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to >> the >> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, >> and >> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least >> for a >> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't >> think >> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, >> center >> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid >> foundation >> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these >> areas, >> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other >> goals, >> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one >> or more >> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of >> these >> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that >> knowledge >> gap. >> >> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, >> your >> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, >> and >> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free >> time >> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches >> and some >> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome >> to >> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up >> time >> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for >> CCB; >> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >> >> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes >> about NFB >> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as >> an >> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to >> develop a >> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a >> great >> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities >> and I >> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally >> good >> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. >> And, >> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less >> than >> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom >> bell" >> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of >> school, >> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I >> think the >> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than >> none >> at all. >> >> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I >> think >> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are >> sighted, >> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent >> in >> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while >> also >> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to >> learn the >> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools >> we >> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to >> employ >> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also >> clear >> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really >> care >> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >> >> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of >> travel. >> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M >> instruction >> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had >> memorized the >> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in >> a >> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around >> on my >> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional >> travel >> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I >> hated >> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was >> going >> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to >> cross a >> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because >> I >> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't >> tell >> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent >> time >> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out >> finding >> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My >> instructor >> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block >> it was >> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the >> place. I >> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also >> worked >> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never >> ever walk >> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I >> had to >> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance >> of a >> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had >> to >> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that >> there >> was nothing to be so worried about. >> >> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or >> even >> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I >> don't >> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. >> More >> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no >> light or >> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something >> else I >> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway >> for my >> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store >> without >> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I >> think I >> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to >> cross >> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I >> would >> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a >> non-NFB >> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay >> with >> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous >> and I >> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >> instructors and by myself. >> >> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB >> center >> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in >> life >> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to >> bring >> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind >> people can >> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave >> their >> homes or their communities for several months. Until that >> happens, >> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for >> turning >> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know >> you >> well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you >> need to >> attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage >> you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not >> fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. >> Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >> friends >> are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and >> will live in >> a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >> comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just >> my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring >> wrote: >> >> From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >> Is it hard to get involved with the community >> outside the center? >> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >> sense. >> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >> mind I'm not >> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >> training >> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >> people. >> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >> me. I'm probably >> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >> blind >> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >> blind. So, with >> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >> involved in the >> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >> for me. >> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >> choose to >> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >> programs, >> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >> Because I think >> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >> a "blind >> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >> center >> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >> opportunities I >> might find living away from home for such a long >> time. Don't get me >> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >> great time. >> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >> my own like >> this. Thoughts, anyone? >> Kirt >> >> On 2/9/11, Beth > wrote: >> Training centers are a good way for blind people to >> learn the >> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >> easier. Tara, I >> agree with you on all points. At a center in >> Daytona Beach, >> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >> rules such >> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >> wing, and there >> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >> people are treated >> like people. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tara Annis > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I attended the Colorado Center program between >> semesters at >> college. I attended the school for the >> blind and also took >> some classes at a local association of the blind, so >> would like >> to provide some insight. >> I do agree that blind people can be successful and >> have above >> average skills, even though they do not go to >> the NFB center, >> but this is really rare from my observations. >> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >> could walk >> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >> miles. I >> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >> instructor had >> taught them, and the route would be a mile or >> less. I thought >> blind people needed sighted guide for any >> new place they >> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >> grill. >> Some observations: >> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >> medication >> you took. If you are supposed to be living in >> the real world, >> why have someone keep track of your meds? >> >> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >> you showed up to >> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >> as you >> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >> should be treated >> like them. >> Go to bed when you feel like it. >> >> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >> for lunch. >> You just walked out the door. You didn't >> need to make sure >> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >> didn't need to >> have a sighted person to come along to help out. >> >> >> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >> it. At other >> training centers, the instructors would never be >> caught using a >> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >> dark glasses when >> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >> look into >> their eyes. They did not like being stared >> at by the public. >> Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >> >> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >> public can >> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >> blindness. I have >> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >> to blind people >> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >> that they >> don't need a cane, since they get around so >> well. Yet, the >> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >> into >> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >> person to feel >> bad so that is why they make up these lies. >> >> >> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >> blind person >> has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >> CCB knew that some of their students are at an >> intermediate >> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >> and just >> came to CCB for advanced skills training. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >> ydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbha >> tia%40yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres >> ident%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 22:20:30 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:20:30 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <004d01cbc96d$77fc1ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d5410d3.a7fed80a.29d0.0adc@mx.google.com> <004d01cbc96d$77fc1ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: I think that Dating is but a small part of the expirience. I would say that the confidence you gain at the center will allow you to date, to marry, to have as great or as horrible of a job as you would like. within the NFB training center environment, it's understood that you are an adult, you can take the training as serious as you like, push yourself to learn outside of the work week (or not) as you choose. it is important to understand that the effort one puts into the time is the difference between serving one's self well, or cheating one's self out of something. Finally, if I may throw in a bit of commentary - if we so strongly dislike others cheating us out of oppertunities to seek the lives we feel we deserve, why should we allow for ourselves to do this? Darian On 2/10/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > @Jen were you at the center in 08 when I was their? Its Brian Hatgelakas! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:32 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> Hi all, >> >> I met my boyfriend when I was at the Carrol Center. They had issues with >> touching etc over there, but we didn't actually start dating until after >> we were both finished our programs, so it wasn't a big deal for me. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:21 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >> As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and >> he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with >> open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. >> lol >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:41:15 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Hi again, >> >> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at >> NFB >> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, >> it >> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up >> blind >> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who >> have >> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >> recently losing more vision. >> >> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to >> play >> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who >> are >> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and >> Mrs. >> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three >> NFB >> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center >> student >> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at >> a >> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind >> person. >> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for >> everyone >> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and >> integration in >> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will >> hopefully >> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have >> as many >> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the >> Louisiana >> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to >> the >> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, >> and >> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least >> for a >> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't >> think >> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, >> center >> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid >> foundation >> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these >> areas, >> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other >> goals, >> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one >> or more >> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of >> these >> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that >> knowledge >> gap. >> >> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, >> your >> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, >> and >> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free >> time >> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches >> and some >> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome >> to >> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up >> time >> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for >> CCB; >> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >> >> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes >> about NFB >> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as >> an >> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to >> develop a >> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a >> great >> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities >> and I >> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally >> good >> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. >> And, >> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less >> than >> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom >> bell" >> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of >> school, >> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I >> think the >> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than >> none >> at all. >> >> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I >> think >> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are >> sighted, >> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent >> in >> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while >> also >> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to >> learn the >> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools >> we >> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to >> employ >> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also >> clear >> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really >> care >> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >> >> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of >> travel. >> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M >> instruction >> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had >> memorized the >> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in >> a >> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around >> on my >> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional >> travel >> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I >> hated >> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was >> going >> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to >> cross a >> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because >> I >> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't >> tell >> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent >> time >> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out >> finding >> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My >> instructor >> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block >> it was >> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the >> place. I >> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also >> worked >> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never >> ever walk >> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I >> had to >> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance >> of a >> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had >> to >> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that >> there >> was nothing to be so worried about. >> >> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or >> even >> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I >> don't >> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. >> More >> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no >> light or >> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something >> else I >> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway >> for my >> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store >> without >> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I >> think I >> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to >> cross >> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I >> would >> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a >> non-NFB >> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay >> with >> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous >> and I >> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >> instructors and by myself. >> >> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB >> center >> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in >> life >> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to >> bring >> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind >> people can >> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave >> their >> homes or their communities for several months. Until that >> happens, >> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for >> turning >> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know >> you >> well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you >> need to >> attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage >> you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not >> fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. >> Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >> friends >> are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and >> will live in >> a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >> comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just >> my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >> Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >> like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring >> wrote: >> >> From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >> Is it hard to get involved with the community >> outside the center? >> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >> sense. >> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >> mind I'm not >> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >> training >> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >> people. >> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >> me. I'm probably >> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >> blind >> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >> blind. So, with >> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >> involved in the >> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >> for me. >> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >> choose to >> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >> programs, >> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >> Because I think >> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >> a "blind >> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >> center >> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >> opportunities I >> might find living away from home for such a long >> time. Don't get me >> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >> great time. >> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >> my own like >> this. Thoughts, anyone? >> Kirt >> >> On 2/9/11, Beth > wrote: >> Training centers are a good way for blind people to >> learn the >> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >> easier. Tara, I >> agree with you on all points. At a center in >> Daytona Beach, >> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >> rules such >> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >> wing, and there >> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >> people are treated >> like people. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tara Annis > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I attended the Colorado Center program between >> semesters at >> college. I attended the school for the >> blind and also took >> some classes at a local association of the blind, so >> would like >> to provide some insight. >> I do agree that blind people can be successful and >> have above >> average skills, even though they do not go to >> the NFB center, >> but this is really rare from my observations. >> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >> could walk >> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >> miles. I >> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >> instructor had >> taught them, and the route would be a mile or >> less. I thought >> blind people needed sighted guide for any >> new place they >> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >> grill. >> Some observations: >> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >> medication >> you took. If you are supposed to be living in >> the real world, >> why have someone keep track of your meds? >> >> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >> you showed up to >> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >> as you >> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >> should be treated >> like them. >> Go to bed when you feel like it. >> >> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >> for lunch. >> You just walked out the door. You didn't >> need to make sure >> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >> didn't need to >> have a sighted person to come along to help out. >> >> >> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >> it. At other >> training centers, the instructors would never be >> caught using a >> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >> dark glasses when >> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >> look into >> their eyes. They did not like being stared >> at by the public. >> Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >> >> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >> public can >> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >> blindness. I have >> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >> to blind people >> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >> that they >> don't need a cane, since they get around so >> well. Yet, the >> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >> into >> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >> person to feel >> bad so that is why they make up these lies. >> >> >> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >> blind person >> has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >> CCB knew that some of their students are at an >> intermediate >> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >> and just >> came to CCB for advanced skills training. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info >> for nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >> ydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbha >> tia%40yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres >> ident%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 22:36:15 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:36:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> Jennifer, When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath had a mock wedding. I don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I think. -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Aberdeen Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but looking back now, I think it was rather funny. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > George, > There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, > opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to > hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember > whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking each > other. > In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. > I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low > expectations. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Brian: > You can't let centers do that to you. > > Its like you're not human. > > I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? > > And you still call it good? > > > > On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > >> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was >> that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl >> friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and right >> when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. The >> weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled into >> my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and grilled >> for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't scene her >> in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people wouldn't >> have raised hell about that tiny issue! >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >> Hi again, >> >> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >> recently losing more vision. >> >> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>> gap. >>> >>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>> >>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>> at all. >>> >>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>> >>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>> >>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>> instructors and by myself. >>> >>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>> well, >>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>> attend >>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>> get >>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>> you >>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>> are >>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>> in >>>> a >>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>> comfert >>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>> sense. >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>> Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>> outside the center? >>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>> sense. >>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>> mind I'm not >>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>> training >>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>> people. >>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>> blind >>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>> blind. So, with >>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>> involved in the >>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>> for me. >>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>> choose to >>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>> programs, >>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>> Because I think >>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>> a "blind >>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>> center >>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>> opportunities I >>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>> great time. >>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>> my own like >>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>> learn the >>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>> rules such >>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>> wing, and there >>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>> people are treated >>>>> > like people. >>>>> > Beth >>>>> > >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>> >>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> > >>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>> semesters at >>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>> blind and also took >>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>> would like >>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>> have above >>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>> the NFB center, >>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>> could walk >>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>> miles. I >>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>> instructor had >>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>> less. I thought >>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>> new place they >>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>> grill. >>>>> > Some observations: >>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>> medication >>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>> the real world, >>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>> > >>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>> you showed up to >>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>> as you >>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>> should be treated >>>>> > like them. >>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>> > >>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>> for lunch. >>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>> need to make sure >>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>> didn't need to >>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>> it. At other >>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>> caught using a >>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>> dark glasses when >>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>> look into >>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>> at by the public. >>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>> > >>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>> public can >>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>> blindness. I have >>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>> to blind people >>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>> that they >>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>> into >>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>> person to feel >>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>> blind person >>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>> intermediate >>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>> and just >>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info >>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 23:00:17 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:00:17 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hello Ladies, would one of you mind explaining a littel more about Carroll? I've nevver heard of it and would appreciate the education. off list or on list is fine; I imagineI'm probably not the only kid in the classroom with the question, rather the only one raising their hand *smile*. Darian On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Jennifer, > When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath had > a mock wedding. I > don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The > independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I > think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but looking > back now, I think it was rather funny. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> George, >> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking each >> >> other. >> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >> expectations. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Brian: >> You can't let centers do that to you. >> >> Its like you're not human. >> >> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >> >> And you still call it good? >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> >>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB was >>> >>> that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl >>> friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and right >>> when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. The >>> >>> weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled into >>> my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and grilled >>> for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't scene her >>> >>> in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people wouldn't >>> >>> have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>> recently losing more vision. >>> >>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>> gap. >>>> >>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>> >>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>> at all. >>>> >>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>> >>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>> >>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>> instructors and by myself. >>>> >>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>> well, >>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>> attend >>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>> get >>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>> you >>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>> are >>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>> comfert >>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>> sense. >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>> involved in the >>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>> for me. >>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>> choose to >>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>> programs, >>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>> Because I think >>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>> a "blind >>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>> center >>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>> great time. >>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>> my own like >>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>> learn the >>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>> rules such >>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>> people are treated >>>>>> > like people. >>>>>> > Beth >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>> >>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>> semesters at >>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>> would like >>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>> have above >>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>> could walk >>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>> miles. I >>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>> instructor had >>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>> new place they >>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>> grill. >>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>> medication >>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>> the real world, >>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>> as you >>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>> should be treated >>>>>> > like them. >>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>> it. At other >>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>> caught using a >>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>> look into >>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>> public can >>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>> to blind people >>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>> that they >>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>> into >>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>> person to feel >>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>> blind person >>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>> intermediate >>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>> and just >>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info >>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From freespirit328 at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 23:03:08 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:03:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway> Yes, the independent living Transition program. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Jennifer, > When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath > had a mock wedding. I > don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The > independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I > think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but > looking > back now, I think it was rather funny. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> George, >> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >> each other. >> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >> expectations. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Brian: >> You can't let centers do that to you. >> >> Its like you're not human. >> >> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >> >> And you still call it good? >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> >>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at >>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>> recently losing more vision. >>> >>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>> gap. >>>> >>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>> >>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>> at all. >>>> >>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>> >>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>> >>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>> instructors and by myself. >>>> >>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>> well, >>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>> attend >>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>> get >>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>> into >>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>> you >>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>> are >>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>> comfert >>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>> sense. >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>> involved in the >>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>> for me. >>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>> choose to >>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>> programs, >>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>> Because I think >>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>> a "blind >>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>> center >>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>> great time. >>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>> my own like >>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>> learn the >>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>> rules such >>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>> people are treated >>>>>> > like people. >>>>>> > Beth >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>> >>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>> semesters at >>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>> would like >>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>> have above >>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>> could walk >>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>> miles. I >>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>> instructor had >>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>> new place they >>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>> grill. >>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>> medication >>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>> the real world, >>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>> as you >>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>> should be treated >>>>>> > like them. >>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>> it. At other >>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>> caught using a >>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>> look into >>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>> public can >>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>> to blind people >>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>> that they >>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>> into >>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>> person to feel >>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>> blind person >>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>> intermediate >>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>> and just >>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info >>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Feb 10 23:21:15 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 16:21:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <4d54731c.4c8de50a.43ce.0603@mx.google.com> I think the students should never date staff as well. My bf is a graduate and a staff member dating me would not be so hot in my opinion. Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Green" wrote: Hi all, As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge gap. In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none at all. There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care about the students and their progress even after graduation. The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there was nothing to be so worried about. I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with instructors and by myself. Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning out competent, self-reliant graduates. Arielle On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: Kirt, Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two sense. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: From: Kirt Manwaring References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <86836D74A56D4E85AB887FF16AC365A1@OwnerPC> Darian, Carroll center for the blind, in Newton Ma, is another training center. They are a nonprofit center with dorms for students. But they also have day students. Apparently Jennifer went to a program, probably the independent living program for adults. I only attended a youth summer program. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hello Ladies, would one of you mind explaining a littel more about Carroll? I've nevver heard of it and would appreciate the education. off list or on list is fine; I imagineI'm probably not the only kid in the classroom with the question, rather the only one raising their hand *smile*. Darian On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Jennifer, > When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath > had > a mock wedding. I > don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The > independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I > think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but > looking > back now, I think it was rather funny. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> George, >> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >> each >> >> other. >> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >> expectations. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Brian: >> You can't let centers do that to you. >> >> Its like you're not human. >> >> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >> >> And you still call it good? >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> >>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>> was >>> >>> that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted girl >>> friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and right >>> when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. >>> The >>> >>> weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled into >>> my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and grilled >>> for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't scene >>> her >>> >>> in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people >>> wouldn't >>> >>> have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>> recently losing more vision. >>> >>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>> gap. >>>> >>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>> >>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>> at all. >>>> >>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>> >>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>> >>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>> instructors and by myself. >>>> >>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>> well, >>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>> attend >>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>> get >>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>> into >>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>> you >>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>> are >>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>> comfert >>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>> sense. >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>> involved in the >>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>> for me. >>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>> choose to >>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>> programs, >>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>> Because I think >>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>> a "blind >>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>> center >>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>> great time. >>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>> my own like >>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>> learn the >>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>> rules such >>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>> people are treated >>>>>> > like people. >>>>>> > Beth >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>> >>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>> semesters at >>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>> would like >>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>> have above >>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>> could walk >>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>> miles. I >>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>> instructor had >>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>> new place they >>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>> grill. >>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>> medication >>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>> the real world, >>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>> as you >>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>> should be treated >>>>>> > like them. >>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>> it. At other >>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>> caught using a >>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>> look into >>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>> public can >>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>> to blind people >>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>> that they >>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>> into >>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>> person to feel >>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>> blind person >>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>> intermediate >>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>> and just >>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info >>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Feb 10 23:49:47 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:49:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> <764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway> Message-ID: <75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC> Jen, There are two programs: vocational transition where it gives you some work experience and the independent living program. I'm not sure which one you went to. Anyway, I'd be interested in your experience with the program; perhaps you can write off list and explain what you learned. Many nfb people criticize the O&M instructors for not having high expectations. I believe there are some good so called traditional O&M instructors out there. Unfortunately, the one I had growing up was not so progressive in her attitude, but some are. At Carroll, what did you do on mobility and was it helpful in teaching you transferable skills, as opposed to just route travel? My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Aberdeen Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Yes, the independent living Transition program. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Jennifer, > When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath > had a mock wedding. I > don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The > independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I > think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but > looking > back now, I think it was rather funny. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> George, >> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >> each other. >> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >> expectations. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Brian: >> You can't let centers do that to you. >> >> Its like you're not human. >> >> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >> >> And you still call it good? >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> >>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at >>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>> recently losing more vision. >>> >>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>> gap. >>>> >>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>> >>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>> at all. >>>> >>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>> >>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>> >>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>> instructors and by myself. >>>> >>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>> well, >>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>> attend >>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>> get >>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>> into >>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>> you >>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>> are >>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>> comfert >>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>> sense. >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>> involved in the >>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>> for me. >>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>> choose to >>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>> programs, >>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>> Because I think >>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>> a "blind >>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>> center >>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>> great time. >>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>> my own like >>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>> learn the >>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>> rules such >>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>> people are treated >>>>>> > like people. >>>>>> > Beth >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>> >>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>> semesters at >>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>> would like >>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>> have above >>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>> could walk >>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>> miles. I >>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>> instructor had >>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>> new place they >>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>> grill. >>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>> medication >>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>> the real world, >>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>> as you >>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>> should be treated >>>>>> > like them. >>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>> it. At other >>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>> caught using a >>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>> look into >>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>> public can >>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>> to blind people >>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>> that they >>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>> into >>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>> person to feel >>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>> blind person >>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>> intermediate >>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>> and just >>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info >>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jty727 at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 00:08:46 2011 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:08:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> <764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway> <75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Darian, Explaining further about the Carroll Center in Newton, MA there are many different programs. I went 3 consecutive Summers. I started in the Youth In Transition(YIT) program which focuses on daily living skills with different classes from 8am-3pm approximately(at least that was the time frame when I attended). The second Summer I attended the Real World of Work Experience(RWWE) Program. This program lasts 5 to 6 weeks where you spend 1 week of stuff you do in YIT and then you are on your own. You have an assigned Job Coach who goes out to the site with you and helps you out. You are treated as a volunteer at your work site, but you are paid by Carroll Center twice a week. Come to think of it it was 5 weeks the YIT was 6. The final Summer I was one of 5 individuals who tested out the pilot program known as Transition To College(TTC). This lasts 4 weeks where you live 2 on the Carroll Center property and the other 2 weeks at a College living in a resident hall. It was a suite style setting. I'm not sure if they still do it with the same college, but when I did it we stayed at Boston College. For this program they give you $15 per day(might have changed because like I said it was the pilot) for food. During the day you attend seminars which were held in the Education building. We walked like a mile between the classroom and our dorm. The other program which I didn't attend was the Computting to College(CTC). Its 2 weeks of classroom sessions in the Technology center on the Carroll Center property. You learn much about microsoft office and all that fun stuff. There is also the Adult programs which are held during the year and not during the Summer. Hope this helps answer some of your questions, Justin On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Jen, > There are two programs: vocational transition where it gives you some work > experience and the independent living program. > I'm not sure which one you went to. Anyway, I'd be interested in your > experience with the program; perhaps you can write off list and > explain what you learned. Many nfb people criticize the O&M instructors for > not having high expectations. > I believe there are some good so called traditional O&M instructors out > there. > Unfortunately, the one I had growing up was not so progressive in her > attitude, but some are. > At Carroll, what did you do on mobility and was it helpful in teaching you > transferable skills, as opposed to just route travel? > > My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Yes, the independent living Transition program. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> Jennifer, >> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >> had a mock wedding. I >> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I >> think. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >> looking >> back now, I think it was rather funny. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> George, >>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >>> >>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>> each other. >>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>> expectations. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Brian: >>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>> >>> Its like you're not human. >>> >>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>> >>> And you still call it good? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> >>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at >>>> >>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi again, >>>> >>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>> recently losing more vision. >>>> >>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>> gap. >>>>> >>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>> >>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>> at all. >>>>> >>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>> >>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>> >>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>> >>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>> well, >>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>> attend >>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>>> get >>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>> into >>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>>> you >>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>>> are >>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>> comfert >>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>> breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>> training >>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>> center >>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>> would like >>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>> have above >>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>> medication >>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>> as you >>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>> look into >>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>> public can >>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>> that they >>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>> and just >>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info >>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From freespirit328 at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 00:23:03 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:23:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC><764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway><75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <211C67E6AC1542298FF0A0ECE7C211E2@Gateway> Oh yeah, I did a little of the job training program, but I had a hard time finding a place to volunteer because of my wheelchair. Why that makes a difference, I don't know, but I ended up volunteering at Perkin's for one day. Later I took an Excel class through their online program. I wanted to go back for the six week Office Skills program , but State Services wouldn't pay for me to go, so that's why I took the online course instead. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Darian, > > Explaining further about the Carroll Center in Newton, MA there are > many different programs. I went 3 consecutive Summers. I started in > the Youth In Transition(YIT) program which focuses on daily living > skills with different classes from 8am-3pm approximately(at least that > was the time frame when I attended). The second Summer I attended the > Real World of Work Experience(RWWE) Program. This program lasts 5 to > 6 weeks where you spend 1 week of stuff you do in YIT and then you are > on your own. You have an assigned Job Coach who goes out to the site > with you and helps you out. You are treated as a volunteer at your > work site, but you are paid by Carroll Center twice a week. Come to > think of it it was 5 weeks the YIT was 6. The final Summer I was one > of 5 individuals who tested out the pilot program known as Transition > To College(TTC). This lasts 4 weeks where you live 2 on the Carroll > Center property and the other 2 weeks at a College living in a > resident hall. It was a suite style setting. I'm not sure if they > still do it with the same college, but when I did it we stayed at > Boston College. For this program they give you $15 per day(might have > changed because like I said it was the pilot) for food. During the > day you attend seminars which were held in the Education building. We > walked like a mile between the classroom and our dorm. The other > program which I didn't attend was the Computting to College(CTC). Its > 2 weeks of classroom sessions in the Technology center on the Carroll > Center property. You learn much about microsoft office and all that > fun stuff. There is also the Adult programs which are held during the > year and not during the Summer. > Hope this helps answer some of your questions, > Justin > > On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Jen, >> There are two programs: vocational transition where it gives you some >> work >> experience and the independent living program. >> I'm not sure which one you went to. Anyway, I'd be interested in your >> experience with the program; perhaps you can write off list and >> explain what you learned. Many nfb people criticize the O&M instructors >> for >> not having high expectations. >> I believe there are some good so called traditional O&M instructors out >> there. >> Unfortunately, the one I had growing up was not so progressive in her >> attitude, but some are. >> At Carroll, what did you do on mobility and was it helpful in teaching >> you >> transferable skills, as opposed to just route travel? >> >> My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:03 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Yes, the independent living Transition program. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >> products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> Jennifer, >>> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >>> had a mock wedding. I >>> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >>> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 >>> I >>> think. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >>> looking >>> back now, I think it was rather funny. >>> >>> Jen >>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>> products! >>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> 401-644-5607 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> George, >>>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>>> to >>>> >>>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>>> each other. >>>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>>> expectations. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Brian: >>>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>>> >>>> Its like you're not human. >>>> >>>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>>> >>>> And you still call it good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> >>>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my >>>>> sighted >>>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend >>>>> and >>>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled >>>>> at >>>>> >>>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi again, >>>>> >>>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>>> recently losing more vision. >>>>> >>>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for >>>>>> everyone >>>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration >>>>>> in >>>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as >>>>>> many >>>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or >>>>>> more >>>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>>> gap. >>>>>> >>>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and >>>>>> some >>>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>>> >>>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of >>>>>> school, >>>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think >>>>>> the >>>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>>> at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also >>>>>> clear >>>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>>> >>>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M >>>>>> instruction >>>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I >>>>>> hated >>>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it >>>>>> was >>>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever >>>>>> walk >>>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>>> >>>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else >>>>>> I >>>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store >>>>>> without >>>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB >>>>>> center >>>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for >>>>>> turning >>>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>>> well, >>>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>>> attend >>>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. >>>>>>> Like >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>>> friends >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>>> live >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>>> comfert >>>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>>> two >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>>> breeze >>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>>> have above >>>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>>> medication >>>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>>> look into >>>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>>> public can >>>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>>> that they >>>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>>> and just >>>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 00:29:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:29:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <211C67E6AC1542298FF0A0ECE7C211E2@Gateway> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC><764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway><75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC> <211C67E6AC1542298FF0A0ECE7C211E2@Gateway> Message-ID: Jen, Are you saying you went to the independent living program then switched to vocational transition? But in the vocational program, they couldn't find a place for you to get experience. That's too bad. Just clarifying because there's two different programs. The independent living one takes four months, 16 weeks usually; the vocational transition is a few months longer. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Aberdeen Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Oh yeah, I did a little of the job training program, but I had a hard time finding a place to volunteer because of my wheelchair. Why that makes a difference, I don't know, but I ended up volunteering at Perkin's for one day. Later I took an Excel class through their online program. I wanted to go back for the six week Office Skills program , but State Services wouldn't pay for me to go, so that's why I took the online course instead. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Darian, > > Explaining further about the Carroll Center in Newton, MA there are > many different programs. I went 3 consecutive Summers. I started in > the Youth In Transition(YIT) program which focuses on daily living > skills with different classes from 8am-3pm approximately(at least that > was the time frame when I attended). The second Summer I attended the > Real World of Work Experience(RWWE) Program. This program lasts 5 to > 6 weeks where you spend 1 week of stuff you do in YIT and then you are > on your own. You have an assigned Job Coach who goes out to the site > with you and helps you out. You are treated as a volunteer at your > work site, but you are paid by Carroll Center twice a week. Come to > think of it it was 5 weeks the YIT was 6. The final Summer I was one > of 5 individuals who tested out the pilot program known as Transition > To College(TTC). This lasts 4 weeks where you live 2 on the Carroll > Center property and the other 2 weeks at a College living in a > resident hall. It was a suite style setting. I'm not sure if they > still do it with the same college, but when I did it we stayed at > Boston College. For this program they give you $15 per day(might have > changed because like I said it was the pilot) for food. During the > day you attend seminars which were held in the Education building. We > walked like a mile between the classroom and our dorm. The other > program which I didn't attend was the Computting to College(CTC). Its > 2 weeks of classroom sessions in the Technology center on the Carroll > Center property. You learn much about microsoft office and all that > fun stuff. There is also the Adult programs which are held during the > year and not during the Summer. > Hope this helps answer some of your questions, > Justin > > On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Jen, >> There are two programs: vocational transition where it gives you some >> work >> experience and the independent living program. >> I'm not sure which one you went to. Anyway, I'd be interested in your >> experience with the program; perhaps you can write off list and >> explain what you learned. Many nfb people criticize the O&M instructors >> for >> not having high expectations. >> I believe there are some good so called traditional O&M instructors out >> there. >> Unfortunately, the one I had growing up was not so progressive in her >> attitude, but some are. >> At Carroll, what did you do on mobility and was it helpful in teaching >> you >> transferable skills, as opposed to just route travel? >> >> My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:03 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Yes, the independent living Transition program. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >> products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> Jennifer, >>> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >>> had a mock wedding. I >>> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >>> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 >>> I >>> think. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >>> looking >>> back now, I think it was rather funny. >>> >>> Jen >>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>> products! >>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> 401-644-5607 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> George, >>>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>>> to >>>> >>>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>>> each other. >>>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>>> expectations. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Brian: >>>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>>> >>>> Its like you're not human. >>>> >>>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>>> >>>> And you still call it good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> >>>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my >>>>> sighted >>>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend >>>>> and >>>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled >>>>> at >>>>> >>>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi again, >>>>> >>>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>>> recently losing more vision. >>>>> >>>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for >>>>>> everyone >>>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration >>>>>> in >>>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as >>>>>> many >>>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or >>>>>> more >>>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>>> gap. >>>>>> >>>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and >>>>>> some >>>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>>> >>>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of >>>>>> school, >>>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think >>>>>> the >>>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>>> at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also >>>>>> clear >>>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>>> >>>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M >>>>>> instruction >>>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I >>>>>> hated >>>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it >>>>>> was >>>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever >>>>>> walk >>>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>>> >>>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else >>>>>> I >>>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store >>>>>> without >>>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB >>>>>> center >>>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for >>>>>> turning >>>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>>> well, >>>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>>> attend >>>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. >>>>>>> Like >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>>> friends >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>>> live >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>>> comfert >>>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>>> two >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>>> breeze >>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>>> have above >>>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>>> medication >>>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>>> look into >>>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>>> public can >>>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>>> that they >>>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>>> and just >>>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From freespirit328 at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 00:11:49 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:11:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <43CB8D30680A4BA89EC0CC8380493B45@Gateway> Hi Darian, The Carrol Center is located in Newton, MA. It's right outside of Boston. The building is an old tuitor style mansion; it has a dormatory type setting. Anyway, my original program was twelve weeks, but I got an eight week extention because of my particular situation. There were your usual classes: O & M, independent living skills, communications Skills and wood shop. Mobility was interesting because I was trying to learn how to travel safely in a power wheelchair. We worked on it for months, but we finally decided there was no way I could do it safely without sighted assistance. I kept driving the dumb thing off the sidewalk. I did much better with my manual wheelchair. I did learn very quickly though. My instructor told me I have really good orientation skills. I didn't really like Woodshop. There was a lot of measuring involved and I always had a hard time with that when I had sight, so it wasn't any different being blind. I did end up making a bed for my cat though. I was really good in communications skills. I've always been good with technology though, so I wasn't surprised. My instructor recommended the Stream and Braille Note, and state services did get those for me. Independent living skills was a bit challanging for me, but I did learn quite a bit. Cooking was a challange, but I think I got the basics down anyway. I never plan on being a gourmet shef, so I'm satisfied with what I did learn. Then there was fencing, which I hated at first, but after I got really good at it and really enjoyed beating all the guys, lol. The best part was after classes though where I could just hang out with the other students and stuff. I did make quite a few friends there, although most of them I've lost contact with now, but there are still two or three people I still talk to over the phone. I was really sad when my time there came to an end, but I have been back to visit and most of my instructors are on my facebook friend's list. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Hello Ladies, > would one of you mind explaining a littel more about Carroll? > I've nevver heard of it and would appreciate the education. off list > or on list is fine; I imagineI'm probably not the only kid in the > classroom with the question, rather the only one raising their hand > *smile*. > Darian > > > On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Jennifer, >> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >> had >> a mock wedding. I >> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I >> think. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >> looking >> back now, I think it was rather funny. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >> products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> George, >>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>> to >>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>> each >>> >>> other. >>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>> expectations. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Brian: >>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>> >>> Its like you're not human. >>> >>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>> >>> And you still call it good? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> >>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>> was >>>> >>>> that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>>> girl >>>> friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>>> right >>>> when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and kiss. >>>> The >>>> >>>> weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was pulled >>>> into >>>> my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at and >>>> grilled >>>> for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I hadn't scene >>>> her >>>> >>>> in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB center people >>>> wouldn't >>>> >>>> have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi again, >>>> >>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>> recently losing more vision. >>>> >>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>> gap. >>>>> >>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>> >>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>> at all. >>>>> >>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>> >>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>> >>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>> >>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>> well, >>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>> attend >>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>>> get >>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>> into >>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>>> you >>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>> friends >>>>>> are >>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>> live >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>> comfert >>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>> two >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>> breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>> training >>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>> center >>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>> would like >>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>> have above >>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>> medication >>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>> as you >>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>> look into >>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>> public can >>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>> that they >>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>> and just >>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info >>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 00:34:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:34:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC><764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway><75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Justin, What year did you attend YIT? I was in that summer program in 2001; yep its about 5 weeks. I had a fun time; many activities we were shown though I knew how to do already; but the instructors were fine. I got to go on some bus lessons for O&M. The field trips were so fun too and things I don't experience at home. They do allow sighted guide though on field trips, where as nfb centers would not. But you don't have to go sighted guide. We went to Cape cod on a beach, a dance studio and I got to touch dancer's clothes/shoes, and to a museum. We also had fun recreation activities such as canoeing, sailing, beep ball, clay making, and shopping. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Justin Young Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:08 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Darian, Explaining further about the Carroll Center in Newton, MA there are many different programs. I went 3 consecutive Summers. I started in the Youth In Transition(YIT) program which focuses on daily living skills with different classes from 8am-3pm approximately(at least that was the time frame when I attended). The second Summer I attended the Real World of Work Experience(RWWE) Program. This program lasts 5 to 6 weeks where you spend 1 week of stuff you do in YIT and then you are on your own. You have an assigned Job Coach who goes out to the site with you and helps you out. You are treated as a volunteer at your work site, but you are paid by Carroll Center twice a week. Come to think of it it was 5 weeks the YIT was 6. The final Summer I was one of 5 individuals who tested out the pilot program known as Transition To College(TTC). This lasts 4 weeks where you live 2 on the Carroll Center property and the other 2 weeks at a College living in a resident hall. It was a suite style setting. I'm not sure if they still do it with the same college, but when I did it we stayed at Boston College. For this program they give you $15 per day(might have changed because like I said it was the pilot) for food. During the day you attend seminars which were held in the Education building. We walked like a mile between the classroom and our dorm. The other program which I didn't attend was the Computting to College(CTC). Its 2 weeks of classroom sessions in the Technology center on the Carroll Center property. You learn much about microsoft office and all that fun stuff. There is also the Adult programs which are held during the year and not during the Summer. Hope this helps answer some of your questions, Justin On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Jen, > There are two programs: vocational transition where it gives you some work > experience and the independent living program. > I'm not sure which one you went to. Anyway, I'd be interested in your > experience with the program; perhaps you can write off list and > explain what you learned. Many nfb people criticize the O&M instructors > for > not having high expectations. > I believe there are some good so called traditional O&M instructors out > there. > Unfortunately, the one I had growing up was not so progressive in her > attitude, but some are. > At Carroll, what did you do on mobility and was it helpful in teaching you > transferable skills, as opposed to just route travel? > > My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Yes, the independent living Transition program. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> Jennifer, >> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >> had a mock wedding. I >> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I >> think. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >> looking >> back now, I think it was rather funny. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >> products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> George, >>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>> to >>> >>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>> each other. >>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>> expectations. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Brian: >>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>> >>> Its like you're not human. >>> >>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>> >>> And you still call it good? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> >>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled >>>> at >>>> >>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi again, >>>> >>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>> recently losing more vision. >>>> >>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>> gap. >>>>> >>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>> >>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>> at all. >>>>> >>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>> >>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>> >>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>> >>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>> well, >>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>> attend >>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>>> get >>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>> into >>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>>> you >>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>> friends >>>>>> are >>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>> live >>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>> comfert >>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>> two >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>> breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>> training >>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>> center >>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>> would like >>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>> have above >>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>> medication >>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>> as you >>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>> look into >>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>> public can >>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>> that they >>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>> and just >>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info >>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 11 00:38:20 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:38:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training Centers and their structure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Message: 22 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 02:27:36 -0500 From: Jedi To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Jedi, You are correct to point out how Structured Discovery works. I attended the Iowa Department for the Blind (which the NFB centers are modeled after) so I have SD hammered into my brain! LOL Instructors observe you and determine where you are skills wise when initially entering training. They help develop the best curriculum for the individual. There are parts of the program that everyone has to do, just like gen. eds in college, but they try to focus on what your strengths and flaws are in the beginning. This way, everyone knows how to strengthen, and what to work on as you advance through the training. I knew people who had learned Braille as children so they did not spend time working on the alphabet or contractions, they would write different things and use the slate and stylus and Perkins. I already had developed my own cooking and household-type skills so I pretty much came into home EC each day and just cooked a bunch of stuff for everyone! *smile* You are only "thrown" into situations once you have reached a level where you have a firm grasp on the skills. Usually this is before graduation. A lot of students (when I was training) knew the skills, and most were really good with them, but they lacked true confidence. They did not know they could live just like non-blind people. They felt stifled and limited. They spent time gaining a sense of independence. Some of the activities centers like IDB and the NFB facilities do are essentially training tools. When you learn how to climb a rocky cliff, or navigate a on a raft while traveling down a white-water river, or have fun at an amusement park, or grill hotdogs at a campfire, or just go out to dinner, you become aware of your abilities. Not only do you use the skills during these activities, you begin to see how independent you can be. Structured Discovery has proven to be an effective method, and this is why centers are adopting the SD method. Bridgit Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure Message-ID: <20110210072736.2453.79585 at domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" There's a common misconception about Structured Discovery: many (in and out of the NFB) think that Structured Discovery means that one is just thrown into a situation and expected to figure it out for themselves. Though this may happen at an advanced level, it's certainly not what happens toward the beginning and middle of one's SD training. Instead, SD's more like the following analogy previously posted on this topic: People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence. If one can problem-solve while reading, one can problem-solve while traveling. The skills are transferrable and the aim of SD is to make that transfer happen. SD O and M is quite concrete. The difference between SD and traditional instructors is that SD instructors believe in you and will teach you to believe in yourself by not accepting your excuses for why you can't do something. If you've got a genuine limitation, SD is all about helping you overcome it using a wide variety of flexible approaches. Just saying. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello, > That's true Darian. There are people out there who went to no formal > training center or did it another way who are successful. There are > other centers out there that use apartments for housing. Some people > train on their own and get a teacher from the agency for the blind to > come out to their home and teach them. There are itenerant rehab > teachers and O&M instructors. Going the extended time to a training > center for six months may not be for everyone due to leaving kids, not > being able to keep their house while gone or other circumstances. > Structured discovery wouldn't work for me because I don't learn by > cardinal directions in travel. I cannot interpret sound cues alone > without visual input and I like maps rather than just oral directions > to walk a few blocks, cross x street and y street and go to some > address. Traditional instructors are more concrete and may use maps to > convey concepts. Now I do agree some traditional instructors > especially for cane travel, don't have the highest expectations. But I > hope that is changing and you can always push yourself if your > instructor doesn't. > People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. > Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For > instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I > have a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to > blend them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by > sounding it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the > sentence. > I already went to our state center for a while; several months and its > good for some things and bad for others. For instance all we did in > cooking class was baking sweets primarily. The class I got the most > from was daily living; the instructor showed things and went step by > step. One size doesn't fit all. When I hear the nfb center graduates > say negative things and make assumptions about other blind people like > oh they lack initiative or something it sounds like those who went to > centers are acting elite. > That said I still need to figure out some skills. I don't know if > I'll go to another center, probably carroll center, or learn on my own > through friends. But I really need to learn to cook! > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Darian Smith > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure > Bridgit and list, > I too graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited > greatly from that type of environment. > I will point out, however, that there are people who have not gone > through any formalized training or training at a center that stressed > structured discovery and end up just as successful, just as happy, > just asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also say > the same for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of > post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no > college expirience. Will the numbers end up the same if you were to > break down statistics on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are > out there. I say this not to disagree with bridgit, but to make a > counter argument just for the sake of discussion. > Like I say, I went through the training center environment that > Bridgit speaks of, and learned a great amount, I first started the > program believeing that six months would do it for me, andas I look > back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would > have. > thoughts folks? > respectfully, > Darian > On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> Dear List, >> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I >> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good >> training center to attend. >> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the >> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can >> do is attend the best training center you can find. The reason NFB >> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is >> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for >> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the >> skills. >> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these >> centers are structured to meet individual needs. This is why people >> train anywhere from 6 months to a year. If you think you can learn >> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are >> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not >> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability >> that most gain after at least a six month stint. >> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people >> are against this. I initially learned with sleep shades and it made >> sense to me. How better to gain that confidence than to know you can >> do things in non-visual ways? Now that I can no longer use my vision >> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say >> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary. The way this comes >> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and >> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively >> accomplish things. >> Do not sell yourself short. We all have the ability to gain that >> freedom and independence we hear so much about. If you have never >> tried something, how do you know you can't do it? I don't say all >> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard >> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and >> know the benefits. >> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do >> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and >> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to >> prove ourselves to the world. >> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio >> may not work for everyone. I understand the reasoning behind this, >> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to >> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation >> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this >> style of training. You can find centers, like the Iowa Department >> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, >> but housing is on campus, not apartments. Regardless, challenge >> yourself and find out what you really are able to do. >> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training >> center that teaches Structured Discovery. Sleep shades and >> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs. Do we >> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't >> want to spend time completing a degree? No, we know we have to work >> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education >> possible. Why do we view training centers for the blind differently? >> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are >> and what we are capable of. We will all encounter situations in life >> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our >> lives? Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves? No, of >> course not. We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then, >> when it comes to choosing a training center. >> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message >> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision. >> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind >> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how >> independent they can be. The reason NFB centers were created was >> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this >> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds >> to a new way. Like many other situations, we were not going to >> accept this so we opened our own training centers. Not everyone >> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the >> world, bbut this is life. Many, though, leave these centers knowing >> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world. >> I am one of these people. I never understood the fear of training or >> the insistance that it was not important. When I started losing my >> vision, I couldn't wait to train. I knew I could still do things, I >> just had to figure out how to do them. I did not accept what people >> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of >> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of >> the NFB or any other group. I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for >> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived >> away from home. I have not been back since. >> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind >> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work. I do everything, and >> more, and I owe this to a positive training center. >> I will stop. I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic. >> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our >> minds too. I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own >> potential. >> Bridgit >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40g >> mail.com > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40 > earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% > 40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:37:14 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble Message-ID: <3AA6A82AA55142DF9A7FD827BB30C7B5 at Rufus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how blind people want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up married to other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of course up to the individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of the very same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst ourselves. In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for people to get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people should be tied at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience is to take what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, where it really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed to a heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from observing other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. Something as simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food court and head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for me in high school and played a key role in my personal development later in college. Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are likely to develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance of following you for the long-term. Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS or Apple or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a point about running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching opportunity. Training should not just be about what you can take away, but also, what you can give back. You just might be the person who can help out this sheltered individual. The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic fashion. At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating and/or marrying another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's own insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they themselves feel more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things are easy when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the conveniences from such things like the sighted person being able to drive their blind spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers for ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not what's going to make a relationship work. All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness bubble that do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if my views are sorely mistaken. I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become complacent with their landscape to the point that their views become a bit limited. Working in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is all you do, I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of confidence. I'm not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and again, at the unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some ways it is almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even our National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even though the students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become an expert at what you do and expect your students or your membership to just learn it, use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a training center instructor to expect a student to become confident in the hypothetical span of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very well become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning environment will be significantly different when the person returns to the real world where there are no other blind people or instructors to keep the momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or chapter to just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more partnerships, but neither of these things are straightforward, even among sighted organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the need to work collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to create an all-inclusive environment. I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am also not suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are selling themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to fight what to me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we attract great professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer you work at something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I think there is an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it just turns people off, because these high standards are good within the blindness field but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general public. Just as professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are opportunities for blind professionals to get out there for a little while and refresh their understanding of the environment in which their charges are living. Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a negative tone. As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that we can examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the professionals. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: , "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted man, who wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could drive me, who could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my blindness, nor even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run my blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now with that said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit more challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly those things are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix me; he is okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick out of making jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. My husband was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that sense, we understand the struggles that go along with being married to a sighted person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the NFB, or because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me better. We married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at the 2009 Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend Youth Slam to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The seriousness of it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there he was. Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, how independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not deal with his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the relationship forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think it was cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God had something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide dog users, or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry blind people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. You should marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will treat you well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So what blind people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, marry, date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they have or do not have, but who they are. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble Hello, Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how blind people want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up married to other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of course up to the individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of the very same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst ourselves. In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for people to get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people should be tied at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience is to take what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, where it really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed to a heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from observing other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. Something as simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food court and head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for me in high school and played a key role in my personal development later in college. Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are likely to develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance of following you for the long-term. Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS or Apple or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a point about running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching opportunity. Training should not just be about what you can take away, but also, what you can give back. You just might be the person who can help out this sheltered individual. The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic fashion. At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating and/or marrying another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's own insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they themselves feel more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things are easy when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the conveniences from such things like the sighted person being able to drive their blind spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers for ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not what's going to make a relationship work. All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness bubble that do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if my views are sorely mistaken. I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become complacent with their landscape to the point that their views become a bit limited. Working in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is all you do, I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of confidence. I'm not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and again, at the unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some ways it is almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even our National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even though the students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become an expert at what you do and expect your students or your membership to just learn it, use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a training center instructor to expect a student to become confident in the hypothetical span of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very well become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning environment will be significantly different when the person returns to the real world where there are no other blind people or instructors to keep the momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or chapter to just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more partnerships, but neither of these things are straightforward, even among sighted organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the need to work collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to create an all-inclusive environment. I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am also not suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are selling themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to fight what to me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we attract great professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer you work at something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I think there is an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it just turns people off, because these high standards are good within the blindness field but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general public. Just as professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are opportunities for blind professionals to get out there for a little while and refresh their understanding of the environment in which their charges are living. Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a negative tone. As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that we can examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the professionals. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40 gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5861 (20110210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5862 (20110210) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 08:12:02 -0800 From: community service Outreach To: nabs-l , community-service Subject: [nabs-l] Community service call, Feb13. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello all, here is a reminder about the next community service conference call! Information about the call follows: Hi everyone. It's time for another community service conference call! This time we will be hearing from Conchita Hernandez, who was a 2010 scholarship winner. The information for calling in is below. when: February 13, 7 P.M. ET phone number: (218) 339-3600 passcode 808277. ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:21:55 -0700 From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Message-ID: <4d5410d3.a7fed80a.29d0.0adc at mx.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. lol Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: Hi all, As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge gap. In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none at all. There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care about the students and their progress even after graduation. The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there was nothing to be so worried about. I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with instructors and by myself. Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning out competent, self-reliant graduates. Arielle On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: Kirt, Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two sense. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: From: Kirt Manwaring References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> <764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway> <75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I went to YIT in the Summer of 2006 and yeah we did most of those things as well! On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Justin, > What year did you attend YIT? I was in that summer program in 2001; yep its > about 5 weeks. > I had a fun time; many activities we were shown though I knew how to do > already; but the instructors were fine. I got to go on some bus lessons for > O&M. > The field trips were so fun too and things I don't experience at home. They > do allow sighted guide though on field trips, where as nfb centers would > not. But you don't have to go sighted guide. We went to Cape cod on a beach, > a dance studio and I got to touch dancer's clothes/shoes, and to a museum. > We also had fun recreation activities such as canoeing, sailing, beep ball, > clay making, and shopping. > > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin Young > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:08 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Darian, > > Explaining further about the Carroll Center in Newton, MA there are > many different programs. I went 3 consecutive Summers. I started in > the Youth In Transition(YIT) program which focuses on daily living > skills with different classes from 8am-3pm approximately(at least that > was the time frame when I attended). The second Summer I attended the > Real World of Work Experience(RWWE) Program. This program lasts 5 to > 6 weeks where you spend 1 week of stuff you do in YIT and then you are > on your own. You have an assigned Job Coach who goes out to the site > with you and helps you out. You are treated as a volunteer at your > work site, but you are paid by Carroll Center twice a week. Come to > think of it it was 5 weeks the YIT was 6. The final Summer I was one > of 5 individuals who tested out the pilot program known as Transition > To College(TTC). This lasts 4 weeks where you live 2 on the Carroll > Center property and the other 2 weeks at a College living in a > resident hall. It was a suite style setting. I'm not sure if they > still do it with the same college, but when I did it we stayed at > Boston College. For this program they give you $15 per day(might have > changed because like I said it was the pilot) for food. During the > day you attend seminars which were held in the Education building. We > walked like a mile between the classroom and our dorm. The other > program which I didn't attend was the Computting to College(CTC). Its > 2 weeks of classroom sessions in the Technology center on the Carroll > Center property. You learn much about microsoft office and all that > fun stuff. There is also the Adult programs which are held during the > year and not during the Summer. > Hope this helps answer some of your questions, > Justin > > On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Jen, >> There are two programs: vocational transition where it gives you some work >> experience and the independent living program. >> I'm not sure which one you went to. Anyway, I'd be interested in your >> experience with the program; perhaps you can write off list and >> explain what you learned. Many nfb people criticize the O&M instructors >> for >> not having high expectations. >> I believe there are some good so called traditional O&M instructors out >> there. >> Unfortunately, the one I had growing up was not so progressive in her >> attitude, but some are. >> At Carroll, what did you do on mobility and was it helpful in teaching you >> transferable skills, as opposed to just route travel? >> >> My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:03 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Yes, the independent living Transition program. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> Jennifer, >>> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >>> had a mock wedding. I >>> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >>> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I >>> think. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >>> looking >>> back now, I think it was rather funny. >>> >>> Jen >>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>> products! >>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> 401-644-5607 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> George, >>>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>>> to >>>> >>>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>>> each other. >>>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>>> expectations. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Brian: >>>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>>> >>>> Its like you're not human. >>>> >>>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>>> >>>> And you still call it good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> >>>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled >>>>> at >>>>> >>>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi again, >>>>> >>>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>>> recently losing more vision. >>>>> >>>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>>> gap. >>>>>> >>>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>>> >>>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>>> at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>>> >>>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>>> >>>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>>> well, >>>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>>> attend >>>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>>> friends >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>>> live >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>>> comfert >>>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>>> two >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>>> breeze >>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>>> have above >>>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>>> medication >>>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>>> look into >>>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>>> public can >>>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>>> that they >>>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>>> and just >>>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 00:50:24 2011 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:50:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <4d52f052.467bdc0a.4f42.15b9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0E70B116-D535-40F8-B768-5F67AC736B04@gmail.com> Hello Kirt and all, I realize that a training center is an excellent way for a blind person to gain skills and confidence. The apartment living allows any student to live however they so please, leaving it wide open on whether one will learn to plan and make meals, shedule their time, live well, with balance and respect--or not. I attended the colorado center for about 3 months in 2003, and found a general lack of direction, standards, and curriculum. These were reasons why I left, but let me turn the discussion elsewhere since this is not the focus of your question. The life you lead as a center student is somewhat restricted by a social environment where all students live in the same apartment complex. You will make friends in this circle, hang out with your friends, ad end up spending a good amount of time with your blind friends in and out of center activities. The trick is to try and get out and to know the people and places in the city outside a blind community. This is nearly inpossible in a place like Denver. There are tuns of blind people who have come and stayed in Denver as you might observe, and you might actually have to make an effort to expand your horizons while at CCB. Friends of mine at the center have been able to go out and enjoy the city for what it's got. They observed the cosmopolitan flavor of the place, met sighted friends, and participated in activities outside center territory. Your experience wiull be what you make of it. A center philosophy of training and one's drive to be integrated in work and community life may be just what the doctor ordered. You decide. Antonio Guimaraes On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:37 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear Beth, Tara and all, > Is it hard to get involved with the community outside the center? > Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make sense. > I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in mind I'm not > calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the training > centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind people. > There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me. I'm probably > not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a blind > person...simply because most of my friends aren't blind. So, with > that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get involved in the > community at large, at whichever center I decide is right for me. > So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I choose to > spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer programs, > other friends I might find outside the center, etc? Because I think > the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in a "blind > bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with center > people all the time, and miss out on whatever other opportunities I > might find living away from home for such a long time. Don't get me > wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a great time. > But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on my own like > this. Thoughts, anyone? > Kirt > > On 2/9/11, Beth wrote: >> Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the >> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I >> agree with you on all points. At a center in Daytona Beach, >> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of rules such >> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by wing, and there >> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind people are treated >> like people. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tara Annis > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at >> college. I attended the school for the blind and also took >> some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like >> to provide some insight. >> I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above >> average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, >> but this is really rare from my observations. >> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk >> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I >> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had >> taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought >> blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they >> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. >> Some observations: >> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication >> you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, >> why have someone keep track of your meds? >> >> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to >> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you >> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated >> like them. >> Go to bed when you feel like it. >> >> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. >> You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure >> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to >> have a sighted person to come along to help out. >> >> >> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other >> training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a >> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when >> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into >> their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. >> Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >> >> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can >> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have >> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people >> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they >> don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the >> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into >> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel >> bad so that is why they make up these lies. >> >> >> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person >> has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >> CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate >> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just >> came to CCB for advanced skills training. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From freespirit328 at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 00:51:14 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:51:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC><764F3855DEE84B7BA6106CD65616E024@Gateway><75A03868DDFA49E5A39CFA34E5654588@OwnerPC><211C67E6AC1542298FF0A0ECE7C211E2@Gateway> Message-ID: Hi Ashley, The covational program was included as part of my Independent Living program, so if things had worked out the way it was suppose to, I would have had about four weeks of the work experience program. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Jen, > Are you saying you went to the independent living program then switched to > vocational transition? > But in the vocational program, they couldn't find a place for you to get > experience. That's too bad. Just clarifying because there's two different > programs. The independent living one takes four months, 16 weeks usually; > the vocational transition is a few months longer. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Oh yeah, I did a little of the job training program, but I had a hard time > finding a place to volunteer because of my wheelchair. Why that makes a > difference, I don't know, but I ended up volunteering at Perkin's for one > day. > > Later I took an Excel class through their online program. > > I wanted to go back for the six week Office Skills program , but State > Services wouldn't pay for me to go, so that's why I took the online course > instead. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Justin Young" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> Darian, >> >> Explaining further about the Carroll Center in Newton, MA there are >> many different programs. I went 3 consecutive Summers. I started in >> the Youth In Transition(YIT) program which focuses on daily living >> skills with different classes from 8am-3pm approximately(at least that >> was the time frame when I attended). The second Summer I attended the >> Real World of Work Experience(RWWE) Program. This program lasts 5 to >> 6 weeks where you spend 1 week of stuff you do in YIT and then you are >> on your own. You have an assigned Job Coach who goes out to the site >> with you and helps you out. You are treated as a volunteer at your >> work site, but you are paid by Carroll Center twice a week. Come to >> think of it it was 5 weeks the YIT was 6. The final Summer I was one >> of 5 individuals who tested out the pilot program known as Transition >> To College(TTC). This lasts 4 weeks where you live 2 on the Carroll >> Center property and the other 2 weeks at a College living in a >> resident hall. It was a suite style setting. I'm not sure if they >> still do it with the same college, but when I did it we stayed at >> Boston College. For this program they give you $15 per day(might have >> changed because like I said it was the pilot) for food. During the >> day you attend seminars which were held in the Education building. We >> walked like a mile between the classroom and our dorm. The other >> program which I didn't attend was the Computting to College(CTC). Its >> 2 weeks of classroom sessions in the Technology center on the Carroll >> Center property. You learn much about microsoft office and all that >> fun stuff. There is also the Adult programs which are held during the >> year and not during the Summer. >> Hope this helps answer some of your questions, >> Justin >> >> On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Jen, >>> There are two programs: vocational transition where it gives you some >>> work >>> experience and the independent living program. >>> I'm not sure which one you went to. Anyway, I'd be interested in your >>> experience with the program; perhaps you can write off list and >>> explain what you learned. Many nfb people criticize the O&M instructors >>> for >>> not having high expectations. >>> I believe there are some good so called traditional O&M instructors out >>> there. >>> Unfortunately, the one I had growing up was not so progressive in her >>> attitude, but some are. >>> At Carroll, what did you do on mobility and was it helpful in teaching >>> you >>> transferable skills, as opposed to just route travel? >>> >>> My email is bookwormahb at earthlink.net. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:03 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Yes, the independent living Transition program. >>> >>> Jen >>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>> products! >>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> 401-644-5607 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> Jennifer, >>>> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >>>> had a mock wedding. I >>>> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >>>> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 >>>> I >>>> think. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >>>> looking >>>> back now, I think it was rather funny. >>>> >>>> Jen >>>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>>> products! >>>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>>> >>>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>>> 401-644-5607 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> >>>>> George, >>>>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth >>>>> program, >>>>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>>>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>>>> each other. >>>>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>>>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>>>> expectations. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> Brian: >>>>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>>>> >>>>> Its like you're not human. >>>>> >>>>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>>>> >>>>> And you still call it good? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend >>>>>> and >>>>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I >>>>>> was >>>>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled >>>>>> at >>>>>> >>>>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi again, >>>>>> >>>>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>>>> recently losing more vision. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for >>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as >>>>>>> many >>>>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other >>>>>>> goals, >>>>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>>>> gap. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about >>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of >>>>>>> school, >>>>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>>>> at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are >>>>>>> sighted, >>>>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also >>>>>>> clear >>>>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really >>>>>>> care >>>>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of >>>>>>> travel. >>>>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M >>>>>>> instruction >>>>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I >>>>>>> hated >>>>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was >>>>>>> going >>>>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store >>>>>>> without >>>>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB >>>>>>> center >>>>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for >>>>>>> turning >>>>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> well, >>>>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> attend >>>>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. >>>>>>>> Like >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>>>> live >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>>>> comfert >>>>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>>>> breeze >>>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>>>> have above >>>>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>>>> medication >>>>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>>>> look into >>>>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>>>> public can >>>>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>>>> that they >>>>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>>>> and just >>>>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 00:55:05 2011 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:55:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <000701cbc8a9$2d6f7ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4d52f052.467bdc0a.4f42.15b9@mx.google.com> <000701cbc8a9$2d6f7ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <29A86AB1-1039-4135-A131-C12AFFFDC9B3@gmail.com> Hello, Neither encouraging not discouraging dating among students is appropriate. You might hear of one center doing the work to take adult choices away, while others present some choices more or less explisitally. Antonio Guimaraes On Feb 9, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Why are blind people discouraged from dating and treated like little kids at some centers! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 2:51 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I agree with you on all points. At a center in Daytona Beach, Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of rules such as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by wing, and there was no question about dating. At CCB, blind people are treated like people. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tara Annis > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at college. I attended the school for the blind and also took some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like to provide some insight. >> I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, but this is really rare from my observations. >> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. >> Some observations: >> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, why have someone keep track of your meds? >> >> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated like them. >> Go to bed when you feel like it. >> >> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to have a sighted person to come along to help out. >> >> >> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >> >> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel bad so that is why they make up these lies. >> >> >> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >> CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just came to CCB for advanced skills training. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 01:04:32 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 20:04:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <0E70B116-D535-40F8-B768-5F67AC736B04@gmail.com> References: <4d52f052.467bdc0a.4f42.15b9@mx.google.com> <0E70B116-D535-40F8-B768-5F67AC736B04@gmail.com> Message-ID: Antonio, I thought that was the case. Other than graduation requirements, I sensed there was not a curriculum at the centers. I suppose that's good for flexibility though so you can learn what you need/want to learn. What did you do after you left Colorado Antonio? Work? You all also say you have free time after 5:00 when classes end at these nfb centers. Do you get any homework? I thought you had it in braille or technology. Obviously by cooking, cleaning, shopping and more you practice the home management skills so you don't have to have homework in that. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hello Kirt and all, I realize that a training center is an excellent way for a blind person to gain skills and confidence. The apartment living allows any student to live however they so please, leaving it wide open on whether one will learn to plan and make meals, shedule their time, live well, with balance and respect--or not. I attended the colorado center for about 3 months in 2003, and found a general lack of direction, standards, and curriculum. These were reasons why I left, but let me turn the discussion elsewhere since this is not the focus of your question. The life you lead as a center student is somewhat restricted by a social environment where all students live in the same apartment complex. You will make friends in this circle, hang out with your friends, ad end up spending a good amount of time with your blind friends in and out of center activities. The trick is to try and get out and to know the people and places in the city outside a blind community. This is nearly inpossible in a place like Denver. There are tuns of blind people who have come and stayed in Denver as you might observe, and you might actually have to make an effort to expand your horizons while at CCB. Friends of mine at the center have been able to go out and enjoy the city for what it's got. They observed the cosmopolitan flavor of the place, met sighted friends, and participated in activities outside center territory. Your experience wiull be what you make of it. A center philosophy of training and one's drive to be integrated in work and community life may be just what the doctor ordered. You decide. Antonio Guimaraes On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:37 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear Beth, Tara and all, > Is it hard to get involved with the community outside the center? > Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make sense. > I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in mind I'm not > calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the training > centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind people. > There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me. I'm probably > not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a blind > person...simply because most of my friends aren't blind. So, with > that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get involved in the > community at large, at whichever center I decide is right for me. > So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I choose to > spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer programs, > other friends I might find outside the center, etc? Because I think > the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in a "blind > bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with center > people all the time, and miss out on whatever other opportunities I > might find living away from home for such a long time. Don't get me > wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a great time. > But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on my own like > this. Thoughts, anyone? > Kirt > > On 2/9/11, Beth wrote: >> Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the >> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I >> agree with you on all points. At a center in Daytona Beach, >> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of rules such >> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by wing, and there >> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind people are treated >> like people. >> Beth >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tara Annis > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at >> college. I attended the school for the blind and also took >> some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like >> to provide some insight. >> I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above >> average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, >> but this is really rare from my observations. >> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk >> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I >> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had >> taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought >> blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they >> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. >> Some observations: >> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication >> you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, >> why have someone keep track of your meds? >> >> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to >> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you >> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated >> like them. >> Go to bed when you feel like it. >> >> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. >> You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure >> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to >> have a sighted person to come along to help out. >> >> >> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other >> training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a >> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when >> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into >> their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. >> Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >> >> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can >> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have >> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people >> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they >> don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the >> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into >> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel >> bad so that is why they make up these lies. >> >> >> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person >> has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >> CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate >> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just >> came to CCB for advanced skills training. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >> sloose%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From freethaught at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 01:09:04 2011 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 20:09:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello arielle, You sight participation in NFB training center as an avenue to becoming an "enlightened blind person." You also argued that anyone blind person would benefit from attendance at one of our finest whether they needed such training or not. These two statements raise some questions. What makes an "enlightened blind person?" Why would I spend my time, and rehabilitation services funding to go through some time to train at a center even when I know I don't need to? I'll address the later here, since the former will take lots of thought and effort to discuss with some eloquence. Say I was born blind, had a good public school education, had access to braille, nemeth, sports and technology resources and training. I am adjusted as a blind person in my late teens, just make believe okay? I have a bright future as a college student in my career of choice. In comes my NFB chapter president, ad fellow NABs list embers. They beliede, as you do, that anyone can bennefit from NFB Center training. This includes me. Remember, I had training and opportunity! How would I, why should I even try to convince my state agency to spend in upwards of $3000 a month for me to receive blindness training and the NFB philosophy? How would the center justify my say, 4 months of training at the program that typically takes 8 or 9. Is it justifiable to put resources behind a student that does not need, but could benefit from some training? Antonio Guimaraes On Feb 9, 2011, at 11:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a > training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. > Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone > to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in > the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully > gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many > "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana > Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the > other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and > anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a > short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think > attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center > training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood > blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation > in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel > appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, > then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, > like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more > of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these > issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge > gap. > > In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in > Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your > time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and > sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time > is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some > exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to > sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time > during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; > I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). > > As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB > centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an > individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are > struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a > plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being > overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great > range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I > thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good > job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, > you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than > six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" > but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, > work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the > more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none > at all. > > There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think > the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their > students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, > but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the > sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had > growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and > respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in > completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, > challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also > being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the > skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us > independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we > needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ > alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear > to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care > about the students and their progress even after graduation. > > The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. > Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction > where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the > route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a > suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my > own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a > sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I > frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel > instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated > getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going > the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much > attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most > intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a > lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I > couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and > perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell > when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time > working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding > addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor > would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was > on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I > really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal > directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked > on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk > in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to > go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a > business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to > traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there > was nothing to be so worried about. > > I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in > August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even > an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair > amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't > get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More > importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more > quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before > training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at > intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or > stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I > was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my > condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without > a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I > would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my > mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross > streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would > have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB > training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with > me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I > spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with > instructors and by myself. > > Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a > different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can > experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center > for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life > between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe > alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring > NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can > receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their > homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, > though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning > out competent, self-reliant graduates. > > Arielle > > On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you well, >> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to attend >> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to get >> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall into >> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like you >> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends are >> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live in a >> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their comfert >> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >> sense. >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>> outside the center? >>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>> sense. >>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>> mind I'm not >>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>> training >>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>> people. >>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>> me. I'm probably >>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>> blind >>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>> blind. So, with >>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>> involved in the >>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>> for me. >>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>> choose to >>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>> programs, >>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>> Because I think >>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>> a "blind >>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>> center >>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>> opportunities I >>> might find living away from home for such a long >>> time. Don't get me >>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>> great time. >>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>> my own like >>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>> wrote: >>>> Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>> learn the >>>> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>> easier. Tara, I >>>> agree with you on all points. At a center in >>> Daytona Beach, >>>> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>> rules such >>>> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>> wing, and there >>>> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>> people are treated >>>> like people. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Tara Annis >>> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> I attended the Colorado Center program between >>> semesters at >>>> college. I attended the school for the >>> blind and also took >>>> some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>> would like >>>> to provide some insight. >>>> I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>> have above >>>> average skills, even though they do not go to >>> the NFB center, >>>> but this is really rare from my observations. >>>> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>> could walk >>>> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>> miles. I >>>> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>> instructor had >>>> taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>> less. I thought >>>> blind people needed sighted guide for any >>> new place they >>>> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>> grill. >>>> Some observations: >>>> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>> medication >>>> you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>> the real world, >>>> why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>> >>>> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>> you showed up to >>>> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>> as you >>>> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>> should be treated >>>> like them. >>>> Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>> >>>> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>> for lunch. >>>> You just walked out the door. You didn't >>> need to make sure >>>> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>> didn't need to >>>> have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>> >>>> >>>> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>> it. At other >>>> training centers, the instructors would never be >>> caught using a >>>> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>> dark glasses when >>>> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>> look into >>>> their eyes. They did not like being stared >>> at by the public. >>>> Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>> >>>> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>> public can >>>> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>> blindness. I have >>>> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>> to blind people >>>> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>> that they >>>> don't need a cane, since they get around so >>> well. Yet, the >>>> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>> into >>>> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>> person to feel >>>> bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>> >>>> >>>> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>> blind person >>>> has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>> CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>> intermediate >>>> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>> and just >>>> came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>> sloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Feb 11 01:10:45 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 19:10:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind relationships In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kirt, I did not mean to direct my comments specifically to you. I understand that you're argument is due to the fact that you simply do not have other blind people involved in the activities you take part in. I was not lecturing you nor did I intend to address you alone. I just hope we all base our relationships on a persons character and not on their physical or aestetic qualities, or their interest. There is a tendancy for us to have reverse prejudice against other blind people as well as sighted people. You seem like an upstanding guy who has focus and determination. I respect that in anyone. I wish for everyone to find someone who they connect with and find a sense of contentment with-- romantic or plutonic. Best of luck to you, and all others. You are right for not focusing on blindness, but what your dreams and desires are. I agree with those who view the "blindness field" as a safety net for some (though I do not believe everyone working in blindness related fields are there for this reason). I, too, do not like spending all my time dealing with blindness topics, though I am extremely active in the Federation. I do have a life outside "blindness" and I encourage us all to follow our own path and not be caught in the trap of having our world revolve around blindness itself. Having said that, I believe it is important we take the lead. For centuries, people chose our paths for us, and society determined what it is to be blind. It was not until we, the actual blind, took charge and carved our own road, that the world began to change. We have discovered that blindness is a perception of reality and not a truth-- meaning, what we once thought was reality has turned out to be largely a perception, and a perception we can change. We need blind people working in blindness fields to, one, prove that we can teach the blind just as well, and two, so our world does not revert back to antiquated ideals about blindness. Anyway, my point is to not let blindness determine how and why you do things. The hardest part of being blind, I have found, is dealing with negative perceptions and stereotypes. I can set a goal and find a way to achieve it. By accomplishing my goals, I am showing the world that I am not that different. It strengthens me to know that so many are accomplishing goals and moving into their communities to be active players in this game. These dialogues allow us to share our experiences, and to learn and grow from them. It is awesome to see so many people shedding the old identity of blindness and creating their own existance. Bridgit Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:38:33 -0700 From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 15 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Bridget, First off, I'm fairly involved with the NFB, especially on a local level. I went to Washington Seminar, I've been to a few conventions, I won a scholarship, I'm vice president of our state student devision. I'm not isolating myself from the blind community at all. But it's a small part of my life. I respect you for marrying a blind man and make no judgements whatsoever. I've seen blind people marry who didn't have the skills they needed to get married, and I've seen others who make it work. The only reason I say I probably won't marry a blind person is because most of my friends aren't blind. And, from my experience, my friends have stuck by me and learned to see that blindness is just a part of me...a big enough part that I'm going to get training so it doesn't hold me back, but a characteristic nonetheless. And, from my experience, most of my sighted friends are ok with that. Warmest regards, Kirt From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 01:21:29 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:21:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind relationships In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridget, *assumes his preacher guise, gets behind a pulpet, bangs it a few times, and starts talking* Amen! You go, girl! And...just for the record, blind girls are just as hot as sighted girls. And I know that from...umm, hands-on experience! :) Anyways...yeah- nothing wrong with dating and marrying blind people. Find the right person, as it sounds like you did, and go for it. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was arguing, or yelling earlier...I totally didn't intend to. Take care, Kirt On 2/10/11, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > Kirt, > > I did not mean to direct my comments specifically to you. I understand > that you're argument is due to the fact that you simply do not have > other blind people involved in the activities you take part in. I was > not lecturing you nor did I intend to address you alone. > > I just hope we all base our relationships on a persons character and not > on their physical or aestetic qualities, or their interest. There is a > tendancy for us to have reverse prejudice against other blind people as > well as sighted people. > > You seem like an upstanding guy who has focus and determination. I > respect that in anyone. > > I wish for everyone to find someone who they connect with and find a > sense of contentment with-- romantic or plutonic. > > Best of luck to you, and all others. You are right for not focusing on > blindness, but what your dreams and desires are. > > I agree with those who view the "blindness field" as a safety net for > some (though I do not believe everyone working in blindness related > fields are there for this reason). I, too, do not like spending all my > time dealing with blindness topics, though I am extremely active in the > Federation. I do have a life outside "blindness" and I encourage us all > to follow our own path and not be caught in the trap of having our world > revolve around blindness itself. > > Having said that, I believe it is important we take the lead. For > centuries, people chose our paths for us, and society determined what it > is to be blind. It was not until we, the actual blind, took charge and > carved our own road, that the world began to change. We have discovered > that blindness is a perception of reality and not a truth-- meaning, > what we once thought was reality has turned out to be largely a > perception, and a perception we can change. > > We need blind people working in blindness fields to, one, prove that we > can teach the blind just as well, and two, so our world does not revert > back to antiquated ideals about blindness. > > Anyway, my point is to not let blindness determine how and why you do > things. The hardest part of being blind, I have found, is dealing with > negative perceptions and stereotypes. I can set a goal and find a way > to achieve it. By accomplishing my goals, I am showing the world that I > am not that different. > > It strengthens me to know that so many are accomplishing goals and > moving into their communities to be active players in this game. These > dialogues allow us to share our experiences, and to learn and grow from > them. It is awesome to see so many people shedding the old identity of > blindness and creating their own existance. > > Bridgit > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:38:33 -0700 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 15 > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Bridget, > First off, I'm fairly involved with the NFB, especially on a local > level. I went to Washington Seminar, I've been to a few conventions, I > won a scholarship, I'm vice president of our state student devision. > I'm not isolating myself from the blind community at all. But it's a > small part of my life. I respect you for marrying a blind man and make > no judgements whatsoever. I've seen blind people marry who didn't have > the skills they needed to get married, and I've seen others who make it > work. The only reason I say I probably won't marry a blind person is > because most of my friends aren't blind. And, from my experience, my > friends have stuck by me and learned to see that blindness is just a > part of me...a big enough part that I'm going to get training so it > doesn't hold me back, but a characteristic nonetheless. And, from my > experience, most of my sighted friends are ok with that. > Warmest regards, > Kirt > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Fri Feb 11 01:31:51 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:31:51 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble Message-ID: <6RXY1g00a2PutTY05RXi0l@netzero.net> I also have a girlfriend who is blind. We started engaging since we were both 15, in high school. I still keep in touch with her, and we sometimes date. It's been like 4 years or 3, that I have her. However, I don't like her just because she's blind; though besides blindness, she has a lot of things in common with me. I enjoy each other's company. We know each other so well. And like some of you stated, we choose our dating partners because respect each other, and we have trust in each other, and we love each other no matter what. Even if I have improvements to make in my life, I'd still date that girlfriend because she knows me and she knows my ways. Our weaknesses aren't going to separate us, but what will keep us together, are our strengths. We can't change each other or judge each other. A relationship must be of best friends. Just my 9 cents. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing listDate sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:22:03 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble >I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind. >HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what >African people think of blind people. African blind men marry >sighted women to take care of them. My bf could've married a >Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong. >That was a trial by fire, and we're still together. Someday, we >will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee >he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good >old-fashioned love." >Beth > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Marsha Drenth" To: ,"'National Association of Blind Students >mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble >On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted >man, who >wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could >drive me, who >could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my >blindness, nor >even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run >my >blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now >with that >said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit >more >challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly >those things >are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix >me; he is >okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick >out of making >jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing. >My husband >was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that >sense, we >understand the struggles that go along with being married to a >sighted >person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the >NFB, or >because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me >better. We >married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at >the 2009 >Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend >Youth Slam >to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The >seriousness of >it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there >he was. >Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, >how >independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not >deal with >his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the >relationship >forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think >it was >cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God >had >something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. >But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of >understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide >dog users, >or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry >blind >people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the >transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. >You should >marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will >treat you >well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you. >So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So >what blind >people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated, >marry, >date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they >have or do >not have, but who they are. >Marsha >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Joe Orozco >Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM >To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble >Hello, >Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how >blind people >want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up >married to >other blind people. What each person does or prefers is of >course up to the >individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of >the very >same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst >ourselves. >In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for >people to >get to know their fellow students. This does not mean people >should be tied >at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience >is to take >what you have learned during class hours and use it out there, >where it >really counts. Part of my confidence in different areas is owed >to a >heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from >observing >other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars. >Something as >simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food >court and >head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for >me in high >school and played a key role in my personal development later in >college. >Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are >likely to >develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance >of >following you for the long-term. >Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS >or Apple >or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a >point about >running the other way. Or, you could think of it as a teaching >opportunity. >Training should not just be about what you can take away, but >also, what you >can give back. You just might be the person who can help out >this sheltered >individual. >The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic >fashion. >At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating >and/or marrying >another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's >own >insecurities. I believe their views might shift after they >themselves feel >more confident about themselves. I don't want to say that things >are easy >when both partners are blind. I don't want to belittle the >conveniences >from such things like the sighted person being able to drive >their blind >spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers >for >ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not >what's going >to make a relationship work. >All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness >bubble that >do trouble me. This is only a theory, and I welcome education if >my views >are sorely mistaken. >I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become >complacent with >their landscape to the point that their views become a bit >limited. Working >in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is >all you do, >I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of >confidence. I'm >not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and >again, at the >unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some >ways it is >almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even >our >National Center in Baltimore. The reason for this is that even >though the >students and skill sets change, the method does not. You become >an expert >at what you do and expect your students or your membership to >just learn it, >use it, and succeed at it. For instance, it is easy for a >training center >instructor to expect a student to become confident in the >hypothetical span >of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very >well >become confident in that learning environment. But, the learning >environment will be significantly different when the person >returns to the >real world where there are no other blind people or instructors >to keep the >momentum going. Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or >chapter to >just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more >partnerships, >but neither of these things are straightforward, even among >sighted >organizations. This is why in my company I over emphasize the >need to work >collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to >create an >all-inclusive environment. >I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted. I am >also not >suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are >selling >themselves short. On the contrary, I respect their courage to >fight what to >me seems an overwhelming battle. It is imperative that we >attract great >professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer >you work at >something, the higher your expectations become. Sometimes, I >think there is >an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it >just turns >people off, because these high standards are good within the >blindness field >but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general >public. Just as >professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are >opportunities for >blind professionals to get out there for a little while and >refresh their >understanding of the environment in which their charges are >living. >Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a >negative tone. >As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that >we can >examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the >professionals. >Best, >Joe >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam >Ewing >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.dr >enth%40gmai >l.com >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature >database 5861 (20110210) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >virus signature >database 5862 (20110210) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >sloose%40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From freespirit328 at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 02:43:34 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:43:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <4d52f052.467bdc0a.4f42.15b9@mx.google.com><0E70B116-D535-40F8-B768-5F67AC736B04@gmail.com> Message-ID: We didn't really have homework. I think the only students who actually have "homework" at the Carroll Center are those in the Office Skills and other computer training classes. I already knew how to read Braille, so I guess that helped. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Antonio, > I thought that was the case. Other than graduation requirements, I sensed > there was not a curriculum at the centers. I suppose that's good for > flexibility though so you can learn what you need/want to learn. > What did you do after you left Colorado Antonio? Work? > > You all also say you have free time after 5:00 when classes end at these > nfb centers. > Do you get any homework? I thought you had it in braille or technology. > Obviously by cooking, cleaning, shopping and more you practice the home > management skills so you don't have to have homework in that. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hello Kirt and all, > > I realize that a training center is an excellent way for a blind person to > gain skills and confidence. The apartment living allows any student to > live however they so please, leaving it wide open on whether one will > learn to plan and make meals, shedule their time, live well, with balance > and respect--or not. > > I attended the colorado center for about 3 months in 2003, and found a > general lack of direction, standards, and curriculum. > > These were reasons why I left, but let me turn the discussion elsewhere > since this is not the focus of your question. > > The life you lead as a center student is somewhat restricted by a social > environment where all students live in the same apartment complex. You > will make friends in this circle, hang out with your friends, ad end up > spending a good amount of time with your blind friends in and out of > center activities. > > The trick is to try and get out and to know the people and places in the > city outside a blind community. This is nearly inpossible in a place like > Denver. There are tuns of blind people who have come and stayed in Denver > as you might observe, and you might actually have to make an effort to > expand your horizons while at CCB. > > Friends of mine at the center have been able to go out and enjoy the city > for what it's got. They observed the cosmopolitan flavor of the place, met > sighted friends, and participated in activities outside center territory. > > Your experience wiull be what you make of it. A center philosophy of > training and one's drive to be integrated in work and community life may > be just what the doctor ordered. You decide. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > > > > > On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:37 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >> Is it hard to get involved with the community outside the center? >> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make sense. >> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in mind I'm not >> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the training >> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind people. >> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me. I'm probably >> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a blind >> person...simply because most of my friends aren't blind. So, with >> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get involved in the >> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right for me. >> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I choose to >> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer programs, >> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? Because I think >> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in a "blind >> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with center >> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other opportunities I >> might find living away from home for such a long time. Don't get me >> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a great time. >> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on my own like >> this. Thoughts, anyone? >> Kirt >> >> On 2/9/11, Beth wrote: >>> Training centers are a good way for blind people to learn the >>> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it easier. Tara, I >>> agree with you on all points. At a center in Daytona Beach, >>> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of rules such >>> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by wing, and there >>> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind people are treated >>> like people. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Tara Annis >> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >> Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> I attended the Colorado Center program between semesters at >>> college. I attended the school for the blind and also took >>> some classes at a local association of the blind, so would like >>> to provide some insight. >>> I do agree that blind people can be successful and have above >>> average skills, even though they do not go to the NFB center, >>> but this is really rare from my observations. >>> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people could walk >>> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten miles. I >>> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M instructor had >>> taught them, and the route would be a mile or less. I thought >>> blind people needed sighted guide for any new place they >>> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal grill. >>> Some observations: >>> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the medication >>> you took. If you are supposed to be living in the real world, >>> why have someone keep track of your meds? >>> >>> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as you showed up to >>> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long as you >>> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you should be treated >>> like them. >>> Go to bed when you feel like it. >>> >>> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go for lunch. >>> You just walked out the door. You didn't need to make sure >>> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You didn't need to >>> have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>> >>> >>> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of it. At other >>> training centers, the instructors would never be caught using a >>> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore dark glasses when >>> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't look into >>> their eyes. They did not like being stared at by the public. >>> Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>> >>> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the public can >>> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand blindness. I have >>> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying to blind people >>> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and that they >>> don't need a cane, since they get around so well. Yet, the >>> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run into >>> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind person to feel >>> bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>> >>> >>> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a blind person >>> has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>> CCB knew that some of their students are at an intermediate >>> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, and just >>> came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Fri Feb 11 03:05:40 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:05:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <4d5410d3.a7fed80a.29d0.0adc@mx.google.com> <004d01cbc96d$77fc1ae0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <000b01cbc998$91727340$9560c747@BRIAN> I was their in the Spring of 08! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Hi, > > I was there from September of 2008 until January of 2009. I have to say it > was great there and lots of fun! > > I don't remember seeing you there though. Perhaps you were there in the > spring... > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Hatgelakas" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:57 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> @Jen were you at the center in 08 when I was their? Its Brian >> Hatgelakas! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:32 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I met my boyfriend when I was at the Carrol Center. They had issues with >>> touching etc over there, but we didn't actually start dating until after >>> we were both finished our programs, so it wasn't a big deal for me. >>> >>> Jen >>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>> products! >>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> 401-644-5607 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:21 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>> As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and >>> he's amazing. I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with >>> open arms. HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness. >>> lol >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Arielle Silverman >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:41:15 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at >>> NFB >>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, >>> it >>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up >>> blind >>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who >>> have >>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>> recently losing more vision. >>> >>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to >>> play >>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who >>> are >>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and >>> Mrs. >>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three >>> NFB >>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center >>> student >>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at >>> a >>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind >>> person. >>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for >>> everyone >>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and >>> integration in >>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will >>> hopefully >>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have >>> as many >>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the >>> Louisiana >>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to >>> the >>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, >>> and >>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least >>> for a >>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't >>> think >>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, >>> center >>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid >>> foundation >>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these >>> areas, >>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other >>> goals, >>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one >>> or more >>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of >>> these >>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that >>> knowledge >>> gap. >>> >>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, >>> your >>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, >>> and >>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free >>> time >>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches >>> and some >>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome >>> to >>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up >>> time >>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for >>> CCB; >>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>> >>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes >>> about NFB >>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as >>> an >>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to >>> develop a >>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a >>> great >>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities >>> and I >>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally >>> good >>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. >>> And, >>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less >>> than >>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom >>> bell" >>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of >>> school, >>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I >>> think the >>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than >>> none >>> at all. >>> >>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I >>> think >>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are >>> sighted, >>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent >>> in >>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while >>> also >>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to >>> learn the >>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools >>> we >>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to >>> employ >>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also >>> clear >>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really >>> care >>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>> >>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of >>> travel. >>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M >>> instruction >>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had >>> memorized the >>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in >>> a >>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around >>> on my >>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional >>> travel >>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I >>> hated >>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was >>> going >>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to >>> cross a >>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because >>> I >>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't >>> tell >>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent >>> time >>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out >>> finding >>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My >>> instructor >>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block >>> it was >>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the >>> place. I >>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also >>> worked >>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never >>> ever walk >>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I >>> had to >>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance >>> of a >>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had >>> to >>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that >>> there >>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>> >>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or >>> even >>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I >>> don't >>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. >>> More >>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no >>> light or >>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something >>> else I >>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway >>> for my >>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store >>> without >>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I >>> think I >>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to >>> cross >>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I >>> would >>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a >>> non-NFB >>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay >>> with >>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous >>> and I >>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>> instructors and by myself. >>> >>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB >>> center >>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in >>> life >>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to >>> bring >>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind >>> people can >>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave >>> their >>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that >>> happens, >>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for >>> turning >>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know >>> you >>> well, >>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you >>> need to >>> attend >>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage >>> you to get >>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not >>> fall into >>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. >>> Like you >>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>> friends >>> are >>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and >>> will live in >>> a >>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>> comfert >>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just >>> my two >>> sense. >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>> Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, >>> like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>> outside the center? >>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>> sense. >>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>> mind I'm not >>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>> training >>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>> people. >>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>> me. I'm probably >>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>> blind >>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>> blind. So, with >>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>> involved in the >>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>> for me. >>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>> choose to >>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>> programs, >>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>> Because I think >>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>> a "blind >>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>> center >>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>> opportunities I >>> might find living away from home for such a long >>> time. Don't get me >>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>> great time. >>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>> my own like >>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Beth >> wrote: >>> Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>> learn the >>> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>> easier. Tara, I >>> agree with you on all points. At a center in >>> Daytona Beach, >>> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>> rules such >>> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>> wing, and there >>> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>> people are treated >>> like people. >>> Beth >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Tara Annis >> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> I attended the Colorado Center program between >>> semesters at >>> college. I attended the school for the >>> blind and also took >>> some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>> would like >>> to provide some insight. >>> I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>> have above >>> average skills, even though they do not go to >>> the NFB center, >>> but this is really rare from my observations. >>> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>> could walk >>> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>> miles. I >>> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>> instructor had >>> taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>> less. I thought >>> blind people needed sighted guide for any >>> new place they >>> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>> grill. >>> Some observations: >>> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>> medication >>> you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>> the real world, >>> why have someone keep track of your meds? >>> >>> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>> you showed up to >>> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>> as you >>> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>> should be treated >>> like them. >>> Go to bed when you feel like it. >>> >>> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>> for lunch. >>> You just walked out the door. You didn't >>> need to make sure >>> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>> didn't need to >>> have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>> >>> >>> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>> it. At other >>> training centers, the instructors would never be >>> caught using a >>> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>> dark glasses when >>> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>> look into >>> their eyes. They did not like being stared >>> at by the public. >>> Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>> >>> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>> public can >>> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>> blindness. I have >>> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>> to blind people >>> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>> that they >>> don't need a cane, since they get around so >>> well. Yet, the >>> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>> into >>> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>> person to feel >>> bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>> >>> >>> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>> blind person >>> has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>> CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>> intermediate >>> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>> and just >>> came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>> ydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbha >>> tia%40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres >>> ident%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>> sloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Fri Feb 11 03:12:16 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:12:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <001101cbc999$7d2c8500$9560c747@BRIAN> Ashley, I was their in the Summer of 2001 as well! I am very good friends with Jen and Heath. I roomed with an annoying kid named Dan Fooster. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Jennifer, > When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath > had a mock wedding. I > don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The > independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I > think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but > looking > back now, I think it was rather funny. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> George, >> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >> each other. >> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >> expectations. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Brian: >> You can't let centers do that to you. >> >> Its like you're not human. >> >> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >> >> And you still call it good? >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> >>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at >>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>> recently losing more vision. >>> >>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>> gap. >>>> >>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>> >>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>> at all. >>>> >>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>> >>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>> >>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>> instructors and by myself. >>>> >>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>> well, >>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>> attend >>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>> get >>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>> into >>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>> you >>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>> are >>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>> comfert >>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>> sense. >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>> involved in the >>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>> for me. >>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>> choose to >>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>> programs, >>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>> Because I think >>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>> a "blind >>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>> center >>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>> great time. >>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>> my own like >>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>> learn the >>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>> rules such >>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>> people are treated >>>>>> > like people. >>>>>> > Beth >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>> >>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>> semesters at >>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>> would like >>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>> have above >>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>> could walk >>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>> miles. I >>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>> instructor had >>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>> new place they >>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>> grill. >>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>> medication >>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>> the real world, >>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>> as you >>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>> should be treated >>>>>> > like them. >>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>> it. At other >>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>> caught using a >>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>> look into >>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>> public can >>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>> to blind people >>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>> that they >>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>> into >>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>> person to feel >>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>> blind person >>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>> intermediate >>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>> and just >>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info >>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From trev.saunders at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 03:18:49 2011 From: trev.saunders at gmail.com (Trevor Saunders) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:18:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <20110211031849.GB28413@football.tbsaunde.org> Hi, On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 03:40:43PM -0700, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Ashley and all, > Personally I like downloading my books better than cds. Mostly > that's cause I'm unorganized and proan to lose things...so electronic > copies are usually better for me. But that's all personal preference > and I guess I can see where a CD could come in handy. I may be missing something, but imho that basically equivelent you can copy files off the cd and given the files you can burn them to a cd ... Now the publisher may not like this, but I've never seen a book with effective enough drm to actually prevent this, most appear to have no drm at all. Trev > > On 2/9/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > > Bookwormahb, Wrightsville prison in Arkansas, put my books into > > Braille, when I was in school. They used to be on time, but in 2003, > > (when I entered high school,) they were always late. I'm talking > > about, being halfway through the semester, before I got my books. > > RFBND's books, are always on time. I'd like to know, (speaking of > > books,) if NLS does college-levil textbooks. Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 2/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> How do you get the texts and are they on time? Do you get them on CD? Word > >> format? > >> My counselor tells me the publisher doesn’t do cds, they do links only and > >> therefore once I get it I have to download it. > >> Groan. CDs where you put it in the computer are much easier. > >> > >> Ashley > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trev.saunders%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 03:36:28 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:36:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <20110211031849.GB28413@football.tbsaunde.org> References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> <20110211031849.GB28413@football.tbsaunde.org> Message-ID: <59B10BC48B86439BAEA90C2B1973921F@OwnerPC> this message was blank Trevor. -----Original Message----- From: Trevor Saunders Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 03:39:46 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:39:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <001101cbc999$7d2c8500$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN><94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC><4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> <001101cbc999$7d2c8500$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian, I'm pretty sure it was 2001; I know it was shortlyy before finishing high school. I can't believe you know Jen and Heath. Wow, I'll never forget that fake wedding they did. Tell me how they are off list. Feel free to tell them I finished college at marymount and am looking for a job. They both had a lot of vision. Something that bothered me about carrol is not everyone had to use canes. Well at least they discouraged sighted guide on campus. Sadly some centers let those with more vision guide those with none and that is wrong because you need to be independent regardless of how much vision you have. What a small world. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Ashley, I was their in the Summer of 2001 as well! I am very good friends with Jen and Heath. I roomed with an annoying kid named Dan Fooster. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > Jennifer, > When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath > had a mock wedding. I > don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The > independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I > think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but > looking > back now, I think it was rather funny. > > Jen > ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative > freespirit328 at gmail.com > 401-644-5607 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> George, >> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >> each other. >> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >> expectations. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Brian: >> You can't let centers do that to you. >> >> Its like you're not human. >> >> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >> >> And you still call it good? >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> >>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at >>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>> recently losing more vision. >>> >>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>> gap. >>>> >>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>> >>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>> at all. >>>> >>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>> >>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>> >>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>> instructors and by myself. >>>> >>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>> Kirt, >>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>> well, >>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>> attend >>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>> get >>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>> into >>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>> you >>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>> are >>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>> in >>>>> a >>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>> comfert >>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>> sense. >>>>> Anmol >>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>> Perhaps >>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>> breeze >>>>> among flowers. >>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>> training >>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>> people. >>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>> involved in the >>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>> for me. >>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>> choose to >>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>> programs, >>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>> Because I think >>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>> a "blind >>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>> center >>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>> great time. >>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>> my own like >>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>> Kirt >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>> learn the >>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>> rules such >>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>> people are treated >>>>>> > like people. >>>>>> > Beth >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>> >>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>> semesters at >>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>> would like >>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>> have above >>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>> could walk >>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>> miles. I >>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>> instructor had >>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>> new place they >>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>> grill. >>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>> medication >>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>> the real world, >>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>> as you >>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>> should be treated >>>>>> > like them. >>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>> it. At other >>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>> caught using a >>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>> look into >>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>> public can >>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>> to blind people >>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>> that they >>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>> into >>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>> person to feel >>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>> blind person >>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>> intermediate >>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>> and just >>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info >>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for >>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Feb 11 03:45:22 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:45:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts In-Reply-To: <59B10BC48B86439BAEA90C2B1973921F@OwnerPC> References: <0A2BDB9B722948FC83079DED926F31A4@OwnerPC> <20110211031849.GB28413@football.tbsaunde.org> <59B10BC48B86439BAEA90C2B1973921F@OwnerPC> Message-ID: He was talking about burning those files on CD. Blessings, Joshua On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > this message was blank Trevor. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Trevor Saunders > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:18 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] obtaining electronic texts > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jty727 at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 05:06:04 2011 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 00:06:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> <001101cbc999$7d2c8500$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Yeah some of the Carroll policies are kind of weird. Oh well On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Brian, > I'm pretty sure it was 2001; I know it was shortlyy before finishing high > school. > I can't believe you know Jen and Heath. Wow, I'll never forget that fake > wedding they did. > Tell me how they are off list. Feel free to tell them I finished college at > marymount and am looking for a job. > They both had a lot of vision. > Something that bothered me about carrol is not everyone had to use canes. > Well at least they discouraged sighted guide on campus. > Sadly some centers let those with more vision guide those with none and that > is wrong because > you need to be independent regardless of how much vision you have. > What a small world. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:12 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Ashley, > > I was their in the Summer of 2001 as well! I am very good friends with Jen > and Heath. I roomed with an annoying kid named Dan Fooster. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > >> Jennifer, >> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >> had a mock wedding. I >> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I >> think. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >> looking >> back now, I think it was rather funny. >> >> Jen >> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! >> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> 401-644-5607 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> George, >>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free to >>> >>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>> each other. >>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>> expectations. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Brian: >>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>> >>> Its like you're not human. >>> >>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>> >>> And you still call it good? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> >>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled at >>>> >>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi again, >>>> >>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>> recently losing more vision. >>>> >>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>> gap. >>>>> >>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>> >>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>> at all. >>>>> >>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>> >>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>> >>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>> >>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>> well, >>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>> attend >>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>>> get >>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>> into >>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>>> you >>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my friends >>>>>> are >>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will live >>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> a >>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>> comfert >>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my two >>>>>> sense. >>>>>> Anmol >>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>> breeze >>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>> training >>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>> center >>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>> would like >>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>> have above >>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>> medication >>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>> as you >>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>> look into >>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>> public can >>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>> that they >>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>> and just >>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info >>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 05:24:03 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:24:03 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> <001101cbc999$7d2c8500$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Alright, so for the sake of stearing the car back on the road *smile*, what do people think of challange recreation activities at training centers? Challange recreation activities are activities such as rock climbing, horseback riding, tree cuttiing and so-on, that are done under sleepshade (blind fold) as a part of the centers curriculim On 2/10/11, Justin Young wrote: > Yeah some of the Carroll policies are kind of weird. Oh well > > On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Brian, >> I'm pretty sure it was 2001; I know it was shortlyy before finishing high >> school. >> I can't believe you know Jen and Heath. Wow, I'll never forget that fake >> wedding they did. >> Tell me how they are off list. Feel free to tell them I finished college >> at >> marymount and am looking for a job. >> They both had a lot of vision. >> Something that bothered me about carrol is not everyone had to use canes. >> Well at least they discouraged sighted guide on campus. >> Sadly some centers let those with more vision guide those with none and >> that >> is wrong because >> you need to be independent regardless of how much vision you have. >> What a small world. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian Hatgelakas >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:12 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Ashley, >> >> I was their in the Summer of 2001 as well! I am very good friends with >> Jen >> and Heath. I roomed with an annoying kid named Dan Fooster. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> >>> Jennifer, >>> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >>> had a mock wedding. I >>> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >>> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 I >>> think. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >>> looking >>> back now, I think it was rather funny. >>> >>> Jen >>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>> products! >>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> 401-644-5607 >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> George, >>>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth program, >>>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>>> to >>>> >>>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>>> each other. >>>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>>> expectations. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> Brian: >>>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>>> >>>> Its like you're not human. >>>> >>>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>>> >>>> And you still call it good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> >>>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my sighted >>>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend and >>>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I was >>>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled >>>>> at >>>>> >>>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi again, >>>>> >>>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>>> recently losing more vision. >>>>> >>>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for everyone >>>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration in >>>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as many >>>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't think >>>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other goals, >>>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or more >>>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of these >>>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>>> gap. >>>>>> >>>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and some >>>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>>> >>>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about NFB >>>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop a >>>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of school, >>>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think the >>>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>>> at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I think >>>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are sighted, >>>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn the >>>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also clear >>>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really care >>>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>>> >>>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of travel. >>>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M instruction >>>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized the >>>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on my >>>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I hated >>>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was going >>>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent time >>>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it was >>>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever walk >>>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had to >>>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>>> >>>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or even >>>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light or >>>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else I >>>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store without >>>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think I >>>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB center >>>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people can >>>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for turning >>>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know you >>>>>>> well, >>>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need to >>>>>>> attend >>>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>>> into >>>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. Like >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>>> friends >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>>> live >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>>> comfert >>>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>>> two >>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>>> breeze >>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>>> have above >>>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>>> medication >>>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>>> look into >>>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>>> public can >>>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>>> that they >>>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>>> and just >>>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 05:36:17 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:36:17 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <505783.29268.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <000501cbc8df$b70ce950$9560c747@BRIAN> <94187923F13D4621BD0E9D7DC973BE41@OwnerPC> <4D9BCE2CC7CA48BCBEB483CF96645CA2@OwnerPC> <001101cbc999$7d2c8500$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: (sorry got cut off by pressing the wrong button). Re: challange recreation activities: These activities are designed to further reenforce the notion that blind people can participate in whatever they choose to. Expiriences? thoughts? On 2/10/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Alright, so for the sake of stearing the car back on the road > *smile*, what do people think of challange recreation activities at > training centers? > Challange recreation activities are activities such as rock climbing, > horseback riding, tree cuttiing and so-on, that are done under > sleepshade (blind fold) as a part of the centers curriculim > > On 2/10/11, Justin Young wrote: >> Yeah some of the Carroll policies are kind of weird. Oh well >> >> On 2/10/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Brian, >>> I'm pretty sure it was 2001; I know it was shortlyy before finishing >>> high >>> school. >>> I can't believe you know Jen and Heath. Wow, I'll never forget that >>> fake >>> wedding they did. >>> Tell me how they are off list. Feel free to tell them I finished >>> college >>> at >>> marymount and am looking for a job. >>> They both had a lot of vision. >>> Something that bothered me about carrol is not everyone had to use >>> canes. >>> Well at least they discouraged sighted guide on campus. >>> Sadly some centers let those with more vision guide those with none and >>> that >>> is wrong because >>> you need to be independent regardless of how much vision you have. >>> What a small world. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Brian Hatgelakas >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:12 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> Ashley, >>> >>> I was their in the Summer of 2001 as well! I am very good friends with >>> Jen >>> and Heath. I roomed with an annoying kid named Dan Fooster. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>> >>> >>>> Jennifer, >>>> When I was in the youth in transition program a girl name Jen and Heath >>>> had a mock wedding. I >>>> don't think it was you though. Which adult program were you at? The >>>> independence one? I only attended the YIT program in the summer in 2001 >>>> I >>>> think. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jennifer Aberdeen >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:14 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> I had a mock wedding while I was there also. It wasn't my idea, but >>>> looking >>>> back now, I think it was rather funny. >>>> >>>> Jen >>>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>>> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness >>>> products! >>>> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen >>>> >>>> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative >>>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>>> 401-644-5607 >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:36 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>> >>>> >>>>> George, >>>>> There may be more to the story. When I was in Carroll's youth >>>>> program, >>>>> opposite gender students could not visit your room, but they were free >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> hang out together. A guy got pretty close to me. I can't remember >>>>> whether he kissed me or not. Anyway, no one got in trouble for liking >>>>> each other. >>>>> In fact there was a mock wedding and divorce between a couple. >>>>> I didn't find the attitudes or treatment there indicative of low >>>>> expectations. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:56 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>> >>>>> Brian: >>>>> You can't let centers do that to you. >>>>> >>>>> Its like you're not human. >>>>> >>>>> I mean--I've heard of centers with low expectations, but this low!!!!? >>>>> >>>>> And you still call it good? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The only complaint I have about the center I went to that was non NFB >>>>>> was that I was yelled at and given a 15 minute lecture about my >>>>>> sighted >>>>>> girl friend who I met in college. She came to visit me one weekend >>>>>> and >>>>>> right when I ran into her in the lobby I gave her a great big hug and >>>>>> kiss. The weekend we had was lots of fun but that Monday morning I >>>>>> was >>>>>> pulled into my home management's instructor's office and I was yelled >>>>>> at >>>>>> >>>>>> and grilled for 15 minutes for kissing and hugging her. Meanwhile I >>>>>> hadn't scene her in a month! I'm sure if this would've been an NFB >>>>>> center people wouldn't have raised hell about that tiny issue! >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:41 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi again, >>>>>> >>>>>> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at NFB >>>>>> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB, it >>>>>> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up blind >>>>>> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who have >>>>>> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are >>>>>> recently losing more vision. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers >>>>>> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating >>>>>> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not >>>>>> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to play >>>>>> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who are >>>>>> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and Mrs. >>>>>> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three NFB >>>>>> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no >>>>>> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center student >>>>>> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the >>>>>> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be >>>>>> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is >>>>>> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at a >>>>>>> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind person. >>>>>>> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for >>>>>>> everyone >>>>>>> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and integration >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will hopefully >>>>>>> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have as >>>>>>> many >>>>>>> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the Louisiana >>>>>>> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to the >>>>>>> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique, and >>>>>>> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least for a >>>>>>> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately, center >>>>>>> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood >>>>>>> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid foundation >>>>>>> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel >>>>>>> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these areas, >>>>>>> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other >>>>>>> goals, >>>>>>> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one or >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that knowledge >>>>>>> gap. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in >>>>>>> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part, your >>>>>>> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing, and >>>>>>> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free time >>>>>>> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches and >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome to >>>>>>> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up time >>>>>>> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for CCB; >>>>>>> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes about >>>>>>> NFB >>>>>>> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as an >>>>>>> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are >>>>>>> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to develop >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being >>>>>>> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a great >>>>>>> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities and I >>>>>>> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally good >>>>>>> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities. And, >>>>>>> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less than >>>>>>> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom bell" >>>>>>> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of >>>>>>> school, >>>>>>> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I think >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than none >>>>>>> at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their >>>>>>> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are >>>>>>> sighted, >>>>>>> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the >>>>>>> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had >>>>>>> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and >>>>>>> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent in >>>>>>> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm, >>>>>>> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while also >>>>>>> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to learn >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us >>>>>>> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools we >>>>>>> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to employ >>>>>>> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also >>>>>>> clear >>>>>>> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really >>>>>>> care >>>>>>> about the students and their progress even after graduation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of >>>>>>> travel. >>>>>>> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M >>>>>>> instruction >>>>>>> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had memorized >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in a >>>>>>> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around on >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a >>>>>>> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I >>>>>>> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional travel >>>>>>> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I >>>>>>> hated >>>>>>> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was >>>>>>> going >>>>>>> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much >>>>>>> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most >>>>>>> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to cross a >>>>>>> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because I >>>>>>> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and >>>>>>> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't tell >>>>>>> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out finding >>>>>>> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My instructor >>>>>>> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block it >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the place. I >>>>>>> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal >>>>>>> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also worked >>>>>>> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never ever >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I had >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance of a >>>>>>> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had to >>>>>>> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that there >>>>>>> was nothing to be so worried about. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in >>>>>>> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair >>>>>>> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I don't >>>>>>> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around. More >>>>>>> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more >>>>>>> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before >>>>>>> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at >>>>>>> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no light >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something else >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway for my >>>>>>> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store >>>>>>> without >>>>>>> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I think >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my >>>>>>> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to cross >>>>>>> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I would >>>>>>> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a non-NFB >>>>>>> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay with >>>>>>> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous and I >>>>>>> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with >>>>>>> instructors and by myself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a >>>>>>> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can >>>>>>> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB >>>>>>> center >>>>>>> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in life >>>>>>> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe >>>>>>> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to bring >>>>>>> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind people >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave their >>>>>>> homes or their communities for several months. Until that happens, >>>>>>> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for >>>>>>> turning >>>>>>> out competent, self-reliant graduates. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arielle >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>>>>>> Kirt, >>>>>>>> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> well, >>>>>>>> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you need >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> attend >>>>>>>> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage you >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not fall >>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people. >>>>>>>> Like >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my >>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and will >>>>>>>> live >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their >>>>>>>> comfert >>>>>>>> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just my >>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>> Anmol >>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. >>>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>>>>>> breeze >>>>>>>> among flowers. >>>>>>>> Hellen Keller >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM >>>>>>>>> Dear Beth, Tara and all, >>>>>>>>> Is it hard to get involved with the community >>>>>>>>> outside the center? >>>>>>>>> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make >>>>>>>>> sense. >>>>>>>>> I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in >>>>>>>>> mind I'm not >>>>>>>>> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the >>>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>>> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind >>>>>>>>> people. >>>>>>>>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for >>>>>>>>> me. I'm probably >>>>>>>>> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a >>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> person...simply because most of my friends aren't >>>>>>>>> blind. So, with >>>>>>>>> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get >>>>>>>>> involved in the >>>>>>>>> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right >>>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>>> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I >>>>>>>>> choose to >>>>>>>>> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer >>>>>>>>> programs, >>>>>>>>> other friends I might find outside the center, etc? >>>>>>>>> Because I think >>>>>>>>> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in >>>>>>>>> a "blind >>>>>>>>> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with >>>>>>>>> center >>>>>>>>> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other >>>>>>>>> opportunities I >>>>>>>>> might find living away from home for such a long >>>>>>>>> time. Don't get me >>>>>>>>> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a >>>>>>>>> great time. >>>>>>>>> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on >>>>>>>>> my own like >>>>>>>>> this. Thoughts, anyone? >>>>>>>>> Kirt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/9/11, Beth >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > Training centers are a good way for blind people to >>>>>>>>> learn the >>>>>>>>> > skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it >>>>>>>>> easier. Tara, I >>>>>>>>> > agree with you on all points. At a center in >>>>>>>>> Daytona Beach, >>>>>>>>> > Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of >>>>>>>>> rules such >>>>>>>>> > as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by >>>>>>>>> wing, and there >>>>>>>>> > was no question about dating. At CCB, blind >>>>>>>>> people are treated >>>>>>>>> > like people. >>>>>>>>> > Beth >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> > From: Tara Annis >>>>>>>> > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500 >>>>>>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > I attended the Colorado Center program between >>>>>>>>> semesters at >>>>>>>>> > college. I attended the school for the >>>>>>>>> blind and also took >>>>>>>>> > some classes at a local association of the blind, so >>>>>>>>> would like >>>>>>>>> > to provide some insight. >>>>>>>>> > I do agree that blind people can be successful and >>>>>>>>> have above >>>>>>>>> > average skills, even though they do not go to >>>>>>>>> the NFB center, >>>>>>>>> > but this is really rare from my observations. >>>>>>>>> > Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people >>>>>>>>> could walk >>>>>>>>> > long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten >>>>>>>>> miles. I >>>>>>>>> > thought people could only walk routes that the O&M >>>>>>>>> instructor had >>>>>>>>> > taught them, and the route would be a mile or >>>>>>>>> less. I thought >>>>>>>>> > blind people needed sighted guide for any >>>>>>>>> new place they >>>>>>>>> > visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone. >>>>>>>>> > I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal >>>>>>>>> grill. >>>>>>>>> > Some observations: >>>>>>>>> > 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the >>>>>>>>> medication >>>>>>>>> > you took. If you are supposed to be living in >>>>>>>>> the real world, >>>>>>>>> > why have someone keep track of your meds? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as >>>>>>>>> you showed up to >>>>>>>>> > class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long >>>>>>>>> as you >>>>>>>>> > aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you >>>>>>>>> should be treated >>>>>>>>> > like them. >>>>>>>>> > Go to bed when you feel like it. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go >>>>>>>>> for lunch. >>>>>>>>> > You just walked out the door. You didn't >>>>>>>>> need to make sure >>>>>>>>> > people had a sighted guide before beginning. You >>>>>>>>> didn't need to >>>>>>>>> > have a sighted person to come along to help out. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of >>>>>>>>> it. At other >>>>>>>>> > training centers, the instructors would never be >>>>>>>>> caught using a >>>>>>>>> > cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore >>>>>>>>> dark glasses when >>>>>>>>> > traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't >>>>>>>>> look into >>>>>>>>> > their eyes. They did not like being stared >>>>>>>>> at by the public. >>>>>>>>> > Yet, they never told blind people this fact. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the >>>>>>>>> public can >>>>>>>>> > sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand >>>>>>>>> blindness. I have >>>>>>>>> > witnessed at other centers staff outright lying >>>>>>>>> to blind people >>>>>>>>> > telling them that no one can tell they are blind and >>>>>>>>> that they >>>>>>>>> > don't need a cane, since they get around so >>>>>>>>> well. Yet, the >>>>>>>>> > people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run >>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>> > obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind >>>>>>>>> person to feel >>>>>>>>> > bad so that is why they make up these lies. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a >>>>>>>>> blind person >>>>>>>>> > has low self esteem, and needs counseling. >>>>>>>>> > CCB knew that some of their students are at an >>>>>>>>> intermediate >>>>>>>>> > level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness, >>>>>>>>> and just >>>>>>>>> > came to CCB for advanced skills training. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>> account info >>>>>>>>> > for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi >>>>>>>>> > sloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>> account info for >>>>>>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 08:51:11 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 02:51:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601cbc9c8$d5fef850$81fce8f0$@com> Antonio, Is it justifiable to use financial resources to buy a student a laptop that that student could benefit from but does not need? What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need training, we could all sit at home without skills or technology and collect SSI, right? A need is vague and undefined until you put it in the context of an end to be achieved by fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to complete classes in school. I could have used readers. I did, however, need e-texts to perform up to my potential in classes, as I very much struggle with retaining information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are not what matter. The cost of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed against the prospective benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are what matter. I absolutely believe that any blind person could benefit from attending a training center. This said, I certainly do not believe that all blind people need to, or even should, attend a training center. I chose to do so because I was never taught to read in school. I felt that the benefits to be gained by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful computer tips, travel tricks and life lessons that I might pick up along the way outweighed the cost of my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the training. I have no doubt I could have been successful in life without spending time in Ruston, but I definitely feel that I took more away from the experience than I gave up to go. Each of us must make our own calculations based on cost/benefit analysis to determine what is the best option for us as individuals. Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life success. Not attending a center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of people who attend centers won't reach their true potential, and plenty of people who do not attend will do so. Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry from claiming that everybody ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people benefit in one way or another from almost every experience each of us has. This might not make them good, enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is still some benefit to be gained in virtually all circumstances. More to the point, whether, and how, to get training is a highly individual choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of one's skill level, age, family situation, employment status and prospects, and myriad other things. Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend a center is being doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge the benefits, in many cases vast benefits, that good training can yield is being equally rigid and dogmatic. By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I just found your post to be a good jumping off point. All the best, Sean From aspooner at blindinc.org Fri Feb 11 12:45:07 2011 From: aspooner at blindinc.org (Al Spooner) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 06:45:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <000601cbc9c8$d5fef850$81fce8f0$@com> References: <000601cbc9c8$d5fef850$81fce8f0$@com> Message-ID: <375B3606A28B4A9781D1E9A42E199E52@rocky> Hi all, I have not been able to follow every detail of this thread topic, so please excuse me if I am repeating something that has already been mentioned. To help you define "need," what you have to do is read a couple of sections of our RSA regulations regarding informed choice. In so many words, the regulations state that you are the person that defines this need, and it should be chosen to allow you to maximize your individual potential. Below is a quote taken directly from a policy directive, RSA-PD-01-03 dated January 17, 2001, written by Dr. Fred Schroeder, during his time as RSA Commissioner. Pay specific attention to the following verbiage "consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice" Below are the two sections of this directive that I am referring too. Beginning of quote: "The 1998 amendments link the individual's employment outcome with the informed choice of the individual. Section 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act specifies the description of the individual's chosen employment outcome as a "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates that the employment outcome must be chosen by the individual and must be consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual. The respective responsibilities of the individual and the State VR agency in working toward the achievement of the employment outcome must be described in the IPE (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i) and (ii) of the Act)." "The link between the employment outcome and informed choice is further reinforced by the description of VR services in section 103(a) of the Act as "any services described in an individualized plan for employment necessary to assist an individual with a disability in preparing for, securing, retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that is consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual." This is a change from the previous description of VR services as "any goods or services necessary to render an individual with a disability employable." These changes make it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of vocational rehabilitation services that an eligible individual may need to achieve a particular employment goal should not be considered in identifying the goal. Instead, the employment outcome must be based only on what is consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual." End of quote Al Spooner Assistant Director Outreach and Marketing Blindness Learning In New Dimensions, Incorporated (BLIND, Incorporated) 100 East 22nd Street Minneapolis, MN 55404 Office: 612-872-0100 Toll Free: 800-597-9558 Fax: 612-872-9358 Web Site: www.blindinc.org Office E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sean Whalen Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Antonio, Is it justifiable to use financial resources to buy a student a laptop that that student could benefit from but does not need? What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need training, we could all sit at home without skills or technology and collect SSI, right? A need is vague and undefined until you put it in the context of an end to be achieved by fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to complete classes in school. I could have used readers. I did, however, need e-texts to perform up to my potential in classes, as I very much struggle with retaining information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are not what matter. The cost of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed against the prospective benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are what matter. I absolutely believe that any blind person could benefit from attending a training center. This said, I certainly do not believe that all blind people need to, or even should, attend a training center. I chose to do so because I was never taught to read in school. I felt that the benefits to be gained by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful computer tips, travel tricks and life lessons that I might pick up along the way outweighed the cost of my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the training. I have no doubt I could have been successful in life without spending time in Ruston, but I definitely feel that I took more away from the experience than I gave up to go. Each of us must make our own calculations based on cost/benefit analysis to determine what is the best option for us as individuals. Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life success. Not attending a center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of people who attend centers won't reach their true potential, and plenty of people who do not attend will do so. Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry from claiming that everybody ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people benefit in one way or another from almost every experience each of us has. This might not make them good, enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is still some benefit to be gained in virtually all circumstances. More to the point, whether, and how, to get training is a highly individual choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of one's skill level, age, family situation, employment status and prospects, and myriad other things. Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend a center is being doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge the benefits, in many cases vast benefits, that good training can yield is being equally rigid and dogmatic. By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I just found your post to be a good jumping off point. All the best, Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. org From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 15:14:35 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:14:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Free Textbooks for College Students Message-ID: <575FDA14C68F49C48FE0E5D621AAF43C@Rufus> Subject: Free Textbooks for College Students Free Textbooks for College Students Are you tired of spending too much money on textbooks, or selling books back to the bookstores at a fraction of the costs you paid for them? Got a stack of old textbooks just taking up space? Created by a student, Xoob is the perfect place to get rid of old textbooks and search for the ones you need- all for free! Xoob is a network designed to allow members to trade textbooks among one another free of charge. Search before buying from bookstores, and use this website to get rid of that stack of used textbooks. Simply join the Xoob community, list your available books, and begin trading immediately. It's really that easy! Click this link to start trading books with http://www.xoobbooks.com. Source: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FredsHeadCompanion/~3/9wz8jDUpNYw/free-textbooks-for-college-students.html Fred's Head from APH The Fred's Head blog contains tips, techniques, tutorials, in-depth articles, and resources for and by blind or visually impaired people. Fred's Head is offered by the American Printing House for the Blind. APH Navigation * Fred's Head Home * APH Home * Shop * Product Info * Louis Database Fred's Head, Sharing Tips and Techniques Welcome Fred's Head is named after the legendary Fred Gissoni of APH's Customer Relations Department. Check out the bottom of this page for: Fred's Head on Twitter; receiving posts by email; browsing articles by subject; subscribing to RSS feeds; the archive of this blog; APH on YouTube; contributing articles to Fred's Head; and disclaimers. Search by Keyword or Text String Thursday, January 27, 2011 Free Textbooks for College Students Are you tired of spending too much money on textbooks, or selling books back to the bookstores at a fraction of the costs you paid for them? Got a stack of old textbooks just taking up space? Created by a student, Xoob is the perfect place to get rid of old textbooks and search for the ones you need- all for free! Xoob is a network designed to allow members to trade textbooks among one another free of charge. Search before buying from bookstores, and use this website to get rid of that stack of used textbooks. Simply join the Xoob community, list your available books, and begin trading immediately. It's really that easy! Click this link to start trading books with http://www.xoobbooks.com. 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Blind Bargains Best Blog 2007-2009 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 16:26:18 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:26:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <375B3606A28B4A9781D1E9A42E199E52@rocky> References: <000601cbc9c8$d5fef850$81fce8f0$@com> <375B3606A28B4A9781D1E9A42E199E52@rocky> Message-ID: Al, Good point; if you Need a training center experience you got to prove it and link it to your vocational goal. If you just want to or say Oh I can benefit from learning more of this or that skill, that will not fly. In these times of budget tightness and accountability, everything has to be justified. Glad you pointed that directive out; its very important to use for justifications. -----Original Message----- From: Al Spooner Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:45 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Hi all, I have not been able to follow every detail of this thread topic, so please excuse me if I am repeating something that has already been mentioned. To help you define "need," what you have to do is read a couple of sections of our RSA regulations regarding informed choice. In so many words, the regulations state that you are the person that defines this need, and it should be chosen to allow you to maximize your individual potential. Below is a quote taken directly from a policy directive, RSA-PD-01-03 dated January 17, 2001, written by Dr. Fred Schroeder, during his time as RSA Commissioner. Pay specific attention to the following verbiage "consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice" Below are the two sections of this directive that I am referring too. Beginning of quote: "The 1998 amendments link the individual's employment outcome with the informed choice of the individual. Section 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act specifies the description of the individual's chosen employment outcome as a "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates that the employment outcome must be chosen by the individual and must be consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual. The respective responsibilities of the individual and the State VR agency in working toward the achievement of the employment outcome must be described in the IPE (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i) and (ii) of the Act)." "The link between the employment outcome and informed choice is further reinforced by the description of VR services in section 103(a) of the Act as "any services described in an individualized plan for employment necessary to assist an individual with a disability in preparing for, securing, retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that is consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual." This is a change from the previous description of VR services as "any goods or services necessary to render an individual with a disability employable." These changes make it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of vocational rehabilitation services that an eligible individual may need to achieve a particular employment goal should not be considered in identifying the goal. Instead, the employment outcome must be based only on what is consistent with the strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and informed choice of the individual." End of quote Al Spooner Assistant Director Outreach and Marketing Blindness Learning In New Dimensions, Incorporated (BLIND, Incorporated) 100 East 22nd Street Minneapolis, MN 55404 Office: 612-872-0100 Toll Free: 800-597-9558 Fax: 612-872-9358 Web Site: www.blindinc.org Office E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sean Whalen Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Antonio, Is it justifiable to use financial resources to buy a student a laptop that that student could benefit from but does not need? What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need training, we could all sit at home without skills or technology and collect SSI, right? A need is vague and undefined until you put it in the context of an end to be achieved by fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to complete classes in school. I could have used readers. I did, however, need e-texts to perform up to my potential in classes, as I very much struggle with retaining information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are not what matter. The cost of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed against the prospective benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are what matter. I absolutely believe that any blind person could benefit from attending a training center. This said, I certainly do not believe that all blind people need to, or even should, attend a training center. I chose to do so because I was never taught to read in school. I felt that the benefits to be gained by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful computer tips, travel tricks and life lessons that I might pick up along the way outweighed the cost of my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the training. I have no doubt I could have been successful in life without spending time in Ruston, but I definitely feel that I took more away from the experience than I gave up to go. Each of us must make our own calculations based on cost/benefit analysis to determine what is the best option for us as individuals. Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life success. Not attending a center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of people who attend centers won't reach their true potential, and plenty of people who do not attend will do so. Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry from claiming that everybody ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people benefit in one way or another from almost every experience each of us has. This might not make them good, enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is still some benefit to be gained in virtually all circumstances. More to the point, whether, and how, to get training is a highly individual choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of one's skill level, age, family situation, employment status and prospects, and myriad other things. Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend a center is being doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge the benefits, in many cases vast benefits, that good training can yield is being equally rigid and dogmatic. By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I just found your post to be a good jumping off point. All the best, Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 18:00:13 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:00:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <000601cbc9c8$d5fef850$81fce8f0$@com> <375B3606A28B4A9781D1E9A42E199E52@rocky> Message-ID: Hi Antonio and all, When I used the term "enlightened blind person" I was being satirical, and poking a little fun at the notion that a training center is magical or that training center graduates are inherently superior to non-graduates. I don't genuinely believe in the concept of an "enlightened blind person". As for need and benefit, I would agree with what Sean said. I think we are always growing and can always gain a little more confidence and knowledge by spending some time with competent blind people, and a center is an excellent way to do that, but of course this must be weighed against the cost of taking time out of your life, as well as the cost to your rehab agency. Arielle On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Al, > Good point; if you Need a training center experience you got to prove it and > link it to your vocational goal. > If you just want to or say Oh I can benefit from learning more of this or > that skill, that will not fly. > In these times of budget tightness and accountability, everything has to be > justified. > Glad you pointed that directive out; its very important to use for > justifications. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Spooner > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:45 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Hi all, > > I have not been able to follow every detail of this thread topic, so please > excuse me if I am repeating something that has already been mentioned. > > To help you define "need," what you have to do is read a couple of sections > of our RSA regulations regarding informed choice. In so many words, the > regulations state that you are the person that defines this need, and it > should be chosen to allow you to maximize your individual potential. > > Below is a quote taken directly from a policy directive, RSA-PD-01-03 dated > January 17, 2001, written by Dr. Fred Schroeder, during his time as RSA > Commissioner. > Pay specific attention to the following verbiage "consistent with the > strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, > interests, and informed choice" > > Below are the two sections of this directive that I am referring too. > Beginning of quote: > "The 1998 amendments link the individual's employment outcome with the > informed choice of the individual. Section 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act > specifies the description of the individual's chosen employment outcome as a > "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates that the employment outcome > must be chosen by the individual and must be consistent with the strengths, > resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and > informed choice of the individual. The respective responsibilities of the > individual and the State VR agency in working toward the achievement of the > employment outcome must be described in the IPE (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i) > and (ii) of the Act)." > > "The link between the employment outcome and informed choice is further > reinforced by the description of VR services in section 103(a) of the Act as > "any services described in an individualized plan for employment necessary > to assist an individual with a disability in preparing for, securing, > retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that is consistent with the > strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, > interests, and informed choice of the individual." This is a change from > the previous description of VR services as "any goods or services necessary > to render an individual with a disability employable." These changes make > it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of vocational rehabilitation > services that an eligible individual may need to achieve a particular > employment goal should not be considered in identifying the goal. Instead, > the employment outcome must be based only on what is consistent with the > strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, > interests, and informed choice of the individual." > End of quote > > Al Spooner > Assistant Director > Outreach and Marketing > Blindness Learning In New Dimensions, Incorporated (BLIND, Incorporated) > 100 East 22nd Street > Minneapolis, MN 55404 > Office: 612-872-0100 > Toll Free: 800-597-9558 > Fax: 612-872-9358 > Web Site: www.blindinc.org > Office E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sean Whalen > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > > Antonio, > > Is it justifiable to use financial resources to buy a student a laptop that > that student could benefit from but does not need? > > What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need training, we could all sit > at home without skills or technology and collect SSI, right? A need is vague > and undefined until you put it in the context of an end to be achieved by > fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to complete classes in > school. I could have used readers. I did, however, need e-texts to perform > up to my potential in classes, as I very much struggle with retaining > information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are not what matter. The cost > of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed against the prospective > benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are what matter. > > I absolutely believe that any blind person could benefit from attending a > training center. This said, I certainly do not believe that all blind people > need to, or even should, attend a training center. I chose to do so because > I was never taught to read in school. I felt that the benefits to be gained > by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful computer tips, travel tricks > and life lessons that I might pick up along the way outweighed the cost of > my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the training. I have no doubt > I could have been successful in life without spending time in Ruston, but I > definitely feel that I took more away from the experience than I gave up to > go. Each of us must make our own calculations based on cost/benefit analysis > to determine what is the best option for us as individuals. > > Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life success. Not attending a > center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of people who attend centers won't > reach their true potential, and plenty of people who do not attend will do > so. > > Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry from claiming that everybody > ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people benefit in one way or another > from almost every experience each of us has. This might not make them good, > enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is still some benefit to be > gained in virtually all circumstances. > > More to the point, whether, and how, to get training is a highly individual > choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of one's skill level, age, > family situation, employment status and prospects, and myriad other things. > Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend a center is being > doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge the benefits, in many cases > vast benefits, that good training can yield is being equally rigid and > dogmatic. > > By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I just found your post to be > a good jumping off point. > > All the best, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. > org > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 20:25:21 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:25:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: References: <000601cbc9c8$d5fef850$81fce8f0$@com> <375B3606A28B4A9781D1E9A42E199E52@rocky> Message-ID: <793FA631-701A-4F97-8076-DB913F8CCFFC@gmail.com> Hello, I've been reading emails from this thread for a while and figured I would finally say something, without trying to offend anyone as always. In very general terms, I feel as though many times training centers are more useful to people who become blind as adults or even as children. This is because they must learn how to do things in ways they had never imagined before. It's true that I'm saying this basing myself on personal experiences alone, and without having too much knowledge about training centers. I was born totally blind and from the very beginning my parents made me find my own ways to do pretty much everything. They were told that me being blind didn't mean I couldn't do stuff, so even though they weren't necessarily sure how I was going to handle things, they let me try and fail over and over, which I guess is the equivalent of training :). We all know that blind people can do pretty much everything, but sometimes I feel like they tend to wait a little too much until training is given to them, when training might not be necessary. I received a very small amount of orientation and mobility training as a child, because at one point I saw that operating a cane wasn't all that complicated. Once I understood how traffic worked, my mom decided that I was going to go to school by myself every day. I live in a very large city so I had to take two busses to get there. I got lost many times, and I had to call home several times for someone to come and pick me up. But by age 11 I could navigate the city pretty confidently. That's actually earlier than any of my other siblings, because my mother was really obsessed about me being independent, to the point that the blind organization in Spain even suggested that she was being a little irresponsible. She also sent me to all kinds of random camps every summer in France and England (by myself, with no other blind people) because she thought that that would help me to be independent in all kinds of situations. This is just an example to say that in my particular case I don't feel like I need a training center because I never had the choice to let other people do things for me, so I had to learn how to do them. Still, I must say that sometimes I have doubts about this, especially after I attended the NFB national convention last year and saw that everyone was talking about these training centers that I had never heard about. After convention I thought about it for a while, and ended up coming to the conclusion that I don't really need training, but could I be wrong? I don't know what everybody thinks about this. I don't think I need the training, but what's true is that I am really not used to being around other blind people. This sometimes really bothers me because I am blind myself. My girlfriend is sighted, and so are all my friends. I spend most of the year playing concerts either by myself or with orchestras and conductors who are also sighted. At this point I probably wouldn't have time for training anyways, but I think the part of it which involves getting to know other blind individuals seems fun and interesting, just because I'm not used to it. IC On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Antonio and all, > > When I used the term "enlightened blind person" I was being satirical, > and poking a little fun at the notion that a training center is > magical or that training center graduates are inherently superior to > non-graduates. I don't genuinely believe in the concept of an > "enlightened blind person". > > As for need and benefit, I would agree with what Sean said. I think we > are always growing and can always gain a little more confidence and > knowledge by spending some time with competent blind people, and a > center is an excellent way to do that, but of course this must be > weighed against the cost of taking time out of your life, as well as > the cost to your rehab agency. > > Arielle > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Al, >> Good point; if you Need a training center experience you got to prove it and >> link it to your vocational goal. >> If you just want to or say Oh I can benefit from learning more of this or >> that skill, that will not fly. >> In these times of budget tightness and accountability, everything has to be >> justified. >> Glad you pointed that directive out; its very important to use for >> justifications. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Al Spooner >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:45 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Hi all, >> >> I have not been able to follow every detail of this thread topic, so please >> excuse me if I am repeating something that has already been mentioned. >> >> To help you define "need," what you have to do is read a couple of sections >> of our RSA regulations regarding informed choice. In so many words, the >> regulations state that you are the person that defines this need, and it >> should be chosen to allow you to maximize your individual potential. >> >> Below is a quote taken directly from a policy directive, RSA-PD-01-03 dated >> January 17, 2001, written by Dr. Fred Schroeder, during his time as RSA >> Commissioner. >> Pay specific attention to the following verbiage "consistent with the >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, >> interests, and informed choice" >> >> Below are the two sections of this directive that I am referring too. >> Beginning of quote: >> "The 1998 amendments link the individual's employment outcome with the >> informed choice of the individual. Section 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act >> specifies the description of the individual's chosen employment outcome as a >> "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates that the employment outcome >> must be chosen by the individual and must be consistent with the strengths, >> resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, interests, and >> informed choice of the individual. The respective responsibilities of the >> individual and the State VR agency in working toward the achievement of the >> employment outcome must be described in the IPE (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i) >> and (ii) of the Act)." >> >> "The link between the employment outcome and informed choice is further >> reinforced by the description of VR services in section 103(a) of the Act as >> "any services described in an individualized plan for employment necessary >> to assist an individual with a disability in preparing for, securing, >> retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that is consistent with the >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, >> interests, and informed choice of the individual." This is a change from >> the previous description of VR services as "any goods or services necessary >> to render an individual with a disability employable." These changes make >> it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of vocational rehabilitation >> services that an eligible individual may need to achieve a particular >> employment goal should not be considered in identifying the goal. Instead, >> the employment outcome must be based only on what is consistent with the >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, capabilities, >> interests, and informed choice of the individual." >> End of quote >> >> Al Spooner >> Assistant Director >> Outreach and Marketing >> Blindness Learning In New Dimensions, Incorporated (BLIND, Incorporated) >> 100 East 22nd Street >> Minneapolis, MN 55404 >> Office: 612-872-0100 >> Toll Free: 800-597-9558 >> Fax: 612-872-9358 >> Web Site: www.blindinc.org >> Office E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Sean Whalen >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers >> >> Antonio, >> >> Is it justifiable to use financial resources to buy a student a laptop that >> that student could benefit from but does not need? >> >> What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need training, we could all sit >> at home without skills or technology and collect SSI, right? A need is vague >> and undefined until you put it in the context of an end to be achieved by >> fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to complete classes in >> school. I could have used readers. I did, however, need e-texts to perform >> up to my potential in classes, as I very much struggle with retaining >> information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are not what matter. The cost >> of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed against the prospective >> benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are what matter. >> >> I absolutely believe that any blind person could benefit from attending a >> training center. This said, I certainly do not believe that all blind people >> need to, or even should, attend a training center. I chose to do so because >> I was never taught to read in school. I felt that the benefits to be gained >> by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful computer tips, travel tricks >> and life lessons that I might pick up along the way outweighed the cost of >> my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the training. I have no doubt >> I could have been successful in life without spending time in Ruston, but I >> definitely feel that I took more away from the experience than I gave up to >> go. Each of us must make our own calculations based on cost/benefit analysis >> to determine what is the best option for us as individuals. >> >> Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life success. Not attending a >> center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of people who attend centers won't >> reach their true potential, and plenty of people who do not attend will do >> so. >> >> Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry from claiming that everybody >> ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people benefit in one way or another >> from almost every experience each of us has. This might not make them good, >> enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is still some benefit to be >> gained in virtually all circumstances. >> >> More to the point, whether, and how, to get training is a highly individual >> choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of one's skill level, age, >> family situation, employment status and prospects, and myriad other things. >> Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend a center is being >> doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge the benefits, in many cases >> vast benefits, that good training can yield is being equally rigid and >> dogmatic. >> >> By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I just found your post to be >> a good jumping off point. >> >> All the best, >> >> Sean >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. >> org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 20:46:37 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:46:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> Hi I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. Josh From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Feb 11 21:04:39 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:04:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> Message-ID: In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within > the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician > and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 21:25:48 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:25:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> Message-ID: Joshua, I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide by such restrictions. It didn't work. Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a certification; so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training center afterward? But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew where you got to be in your room? I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly fried food which is very unhealthy. As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify their meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and cannot know what meds they have in what bottle! But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have friends or family down in say Georga, then why move there? Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within > the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician > and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 21:29:15 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:29:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> Message-ID: Joshua, I was also curious why you decided to try LWSB in the first place? Are you a student now? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within > the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician > and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Feb 11 21:36:45 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:36:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> Message-ID: lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but trouble. There are other places where he can get training without going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, > I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told > him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide by > such restrictions. It didn't work. > Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a certification; > so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. > > Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training > center afterward? > > But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew > where you got to be in your room? > I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone > told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly > fried food which is very unhealthy. > As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify their > meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and cannot > know what meds they have in what bottle! > But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. > However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish > their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? > > On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. > That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have friends > or family down in say Georga, then why move there? > Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of > those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights > out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They > thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it > assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off > to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is > Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for > example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in > that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All > of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't > know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> Hi >> >> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Feb 11 22:06:01 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:06:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2965364499F842E8944654EB4F5226F1@OwnerPC> Joshua, Thanks for the clarification. What time is the curphew? That is bad. I thought they promoted independence, guess not. Those who need help with meds should get it, but if you got a way for identifying your meds already, they need to leave you alone. How terrible your roommate smoked. While I'm not alergic to dogs, I cannot stand their smell and shedding hair. I thought it was only this ACB student complaining, but now I know the food is bad having gotten another opinion. This is good for Josh to know. At the center in Virginia, the nurses individualize the meds issue. Many take their own medicine. If they cannot do it because they can't label the meds yet, then the nurses help. Nurses also taught about diabetes management for those needing it and connected students with adaptive medical equipment such as talking glucose machines and talking blood pressure cuffs. You could also self administer any over the counter drugs without question. Sad to hear about such restrictive policies in this century. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but trouble. There are other places where he can get training without going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, > I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told > him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide > by > such restrictions. It didn't work. > Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a > certification; > so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. > > Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training > center afterward? > > But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew > where you got to be in your room? > I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone > told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly > fried food which is very unhealthy. > As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify > their > meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and > cannot > know what meds they have in what bottle! > But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. > However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish > their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? > > On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. > That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have friends > or family down in say Georga, then why move there? > Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of > those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights > out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They > thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it > assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off > to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is > Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for > example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in > that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All > of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't > know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> Hi >> >> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Feb 11 22:22:56 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:22:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <2965364499F842E8944654EB4F5226F1@OwnerPC> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <2965364499F842E8944654EB4F5226F1@OwnerPC> Message-ID: My room mate was the drunk. An old man was the one smoking in his room. The only good food we had was when they had pizza. I'm a Christian, (so,) I prayed all of the time. My room mate didn't mind my praying, because we agreed on the subject of the prayer. This was my prayer every day for 4 weeks. "Okay, God," here's the deal." I hate the food here. Please let us have pizza all day, because that's the only good thing they cook." I know that prayer sounds immature, but that's how I felt. Thankfully, we had pizza every other day. The other stuff made me sick. The rest of the food is like the stuff you'd eat in high school. They also think that everyone's on the same levil. I've been blind since birth. Those fools thought that I didn't know Braille. A young lady called it the "Braille Jail." That's nothing further than the truth. I didn't need to take that Braille class. We went to Walmart every other Wednesday. I had trouble getting to a church on Wednesday nights. Thank God, I was able to go home on the weekends. The curfue was 10-00, Although, my room mate was at the latest, midnight getting to the room. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Joshua, > Thanks for the clarification. > What time is the curphew? > That is bad. I thought they promoted independence, guess not. > Those who need help with meds should get it, but if you got a way for > identifying your meds already, they need to leave you alone. > How terrible your roommate smoked. While I'm not alergic to dogs, I cannot > stand their smell and shedding hair. > I thought it was only this ACB student complaining, but now I know the food > is bad having gotten another opinion. > This is good for Josh to know. > > At the center in Virginia, the nurses individualize the meds issue. Many > take their own medicine. > If they cannot do it because they can't label the meds yet, then the nurses > help. > Nurses also taught about diabetes management for those needing it and > connected students with adaptive medical equipment such as talking glucose > machines and talking blood pressure cuffs. > You could also self administer any over the counter drugs without question. > Sad to hear about such restrictive policies in this century. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. > Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The > piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, > out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his > dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or > not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how > much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I > haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills > in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only > stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some > friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but > trouble. There are other places where he can get training without > going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed > their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Joshua, >> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told >> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >> by >> such restrictions. It didn't work. >> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >> certification; >> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >> center afterward? >> >> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew >> where you got to be in your room? >> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone >> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >> their >> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >> cannot >> know what meds they have in what bottle! >> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >> >> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. >> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have friends >> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 22:23:16 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 17:23:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] student fiction contest (no fee): Charles Johnson Student Fiction Award Message-ID: Subject: [CRWROPPS-B] student fiction contest (no fee): Charles Johnson Student Fiction Award GUIDELINES FOR THE 2011 CHARLES JOHNSON STUDENT FICTION AWARD http://johnson.siuc.edu/ The Charles Johnson Student Fiction Award from Southern Illinois University Carbondale is an annual award competition intended to encourage increased artistic and intellectual growth among students, as well as reward excellence and diversity in creative writing. Each year, $1000 and a signed copy of a Charles Johnson book will be awarded to the winner. The winning entry will also be published in the Winter/Spring issue of CRAB ORCHARD REVIEW. The award is co-sponsored by Charles Johnson, CRAB ORCHARD REVIEW, and the SIUC Department of English and College of Liberal Arts. The award competition is open to all undergraduate and graduate students who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents currently enrolled full- or part-time in a U.S. college or university. There is no entry fee. Entrants may only submit one story. All entries will be screened by published and accomplished writers and editors. The award winner will be selected by Charles Johnson. Finalists must meet all contest guidelines and be able to verify their status as students. (Evidence of current enrollment: a xeroxed copy of a grade transcript, a class schedule or receipt of payment of tuition showing your full- or part-time status for the Spring 2011 semester. The name of the institution and its address must be clear. Please indicate the name of the department of your major field of study.) Submit one unpublished short story, no longer than 20 pages in length. All entries must be typed double-spaced. Please type or print full name, complete address, phone number, e-mail address, and name of college or university attending on a cover page for the manuscript. Cover letters are not required. Submissions must be postmarked in February 2011. Entries will not be returned, and we are unable to provide feedback on the entries. Simultaneous submissions are acceptable, but the contest director must be informed immediately if a story is accepted for publication elsewhere. Include a self-addressed, stamped envelope for notification of contest results. If you would like confirmation that the manuscript has been received, please include a self-addressed, stamped postcard as well. The winner will be announced in September 2011 on the Southern Illinois University Carbondale website . Mail entries (with a self-addressed stamped envelope) to: Allison Joseph Charles Johnson Student Fiction Award English Department- Mail Code 4503 Southern Illinois University Carbondale 1000 Faner Drive Carbondale, IL 62901 You may e-mail questions or comments to . Electronic submissions and faxes are not accepted. From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 00:00:30 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:00:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to babys in my opinion! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. > Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The > piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, > out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his > dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or > not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how > much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I > haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills > in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only > stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some > friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but > trouble. There are other places where he can get training without > going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed > their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Joshua, >> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told >> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >> by >> such restrictions. It didn't work. >> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >> certification; >> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >> center afterward? >> >> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew >> where you got to be in your room? >> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone >> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >> their >> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >> cannot >> know what meds they have in what bottle! >> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >> >> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. >> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >> friends >> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 00:05:12 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:05:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <2965364499F842E8944654EB4F5226F1@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <001301cbca48$8600b340$9560c747@BRIAN> I agree with you Ashley it isn't fair and if I were going to that center I'd either A. sublet an apartment on my own or rent an offiency at a Residence In or Extended Stay hotel. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > Joshua, > Thanks for the clarification. > What time is the curphew? > That is bad. I thought they promoted independence, guess not. > Those who need help with meds should get it, but if you got a way for > identifying your meds already, they need to leave you alone. > How terrible your roommate smoked. While I'm not alergic to dogs, I > cannot stand their smell and shedding hair. > I thought it was only this ACB student complaining, but now I know the > food is bad having gotten another opinion. > This is good for Josh to know. > > At the center in Virginia, the nurses individualize the meds issue. Many > take their own medicine. > If they cannot do it because they can't label the meds yet, then the > nurses help. > Nurses also taught about diabetes management for those needing it and > connected students with adaptive medical equipment such as talking glucose > machines and talking blood pressure cuffs. > You could also self administer any over the counter drugs without > question. > Sad to hear about such restrictive policies in this century. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. > Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The > piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, > out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his > dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or > not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how > much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I > haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills > in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only > stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some > friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but > trouble. There are other places where he can get training without > going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed > their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Joshua, >> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told >> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >> by >> such restrictions. It didn't work. >> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >> certification; >> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >> center afterward? >> >> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew >> where you got to be in your room? >> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone >> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >> their >> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >> cannot >> know what meds they have in what bottle! >> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >> >> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. >> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >> friends >> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 00:07:11 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:07:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: I don't know, but they've done this since their founding in 1946. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish medications? > That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to babys in my opinion! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told >>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >>> by >>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>> certification; >>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>> >>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>> center afterward? >>> >>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew >>> where you got to be in your room? >>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone >>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>> their >>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>> cannot >>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>> >>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. >>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>> friends >>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 00:12:45 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:12:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <002101cbca49$939eeac0$9560c747@BRIAN> They should get with the 21st century this isn't the 40's anymore. Or if it is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this internet thingie? LOL! just kidding! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >I don't know, but they've done this since their founding in 1946. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >> medications? >> That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to babys in my >> opinion! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> >>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Joshua, >>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>>> told >>>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to >>>> abide >>>> by >>>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>>> certification; >>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>>> >>>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>>> center afterward? >>>> >>>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>>> curphew >>>> where you got to be in your room? >>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>>> Someone >>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >>>> mostly >>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>>> their >>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>>> cannot >>>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>>> >>>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>>> program. >>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>>> friends >>>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >>>>> technician >>>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>>> >>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 00:19:42 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:19:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <002101cbca49$939eeac0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> <002101cbca49$939eeac0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Exactly! The majority of the trainees are 5 or more years past "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old there. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the 40's anymore. Or if it > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this internet thingie? > LOL! just kidding! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >>I don't know, but they've done this since their founding in 1946. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >>> medications? >>> That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to babys in my >>> opinion! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>>> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>>> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> Joshua, >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>>>> told >>>>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to >>>>> abide >>>>> by >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>>>> certification; >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>>>> center afterward? >>>>> >>>>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>>>> curphew >>>>> where you got to be in your room? >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>>>> Someone >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >>>>> mostly >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>>>> their >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>>>> cannot >>>>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>>>> >>>>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>>>> program. >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>>>> friends >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>>>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >>>>>> technician >>>>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 00:34:06 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:34:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as such. There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones run by NFB. O! and I forgot to address one more point that of taking one's meds. The trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse but are not required to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally the trainy's responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you to remind you to take your medison. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM > Exactly! The majority of the trainees > are 5 or more years past > "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old > there. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > wrote: > > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the > 40's anymore.  Or if it > > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this > internet thingie? > > LOL! just kidding! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > > > > >>I don't know, but they've done this since their > founding in 1946. > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > wrote: > >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make > everyone relinquish > >>> medications? > >>> That is dumbing really independent blind > adults down to babys in my > >>> opinion! > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Joshua Lester" > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>> > >>> > >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's > always warm in the dorm rooms. > >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to > relinquish their meds. The > >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) > is out of tune. I hate old, > >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking > the rules. He smoked in his > >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on > whether I wanted a room mate or > >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was > always bragging about how > >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for > an evaluation, in 2007. I > >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've > received the mobility skills > >>>> in school, and received my endependent > living skills at LWSB. I only > >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an > evaluation lasts. I made some > >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my > room mate,) were nothing but > >>>> trouble. There are other places where he > can get training without > >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many > of the trainees, allowed > >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm > allergic to dogs. > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > >>>>> Joshua, > >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs > list, the one belonging to ACB; I > >>>>> told > >>>>> him to think through it, think about > the rules and if he'd like to > >>>>> abide > >>>>> by > >>>>> such restrictions.  It didn't > work. > >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; > now he wants to get a > >>>>> certification; > >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay > confined at LWSB to get that training. > >>>>> > >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend > and did you go to another training > >>>>> center afterward? > >>>>> > >>>>> But do they really have a lights out > rule?  Do they really have a > >>>>> curphew > >>>>> where you got to be in your room? > >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. > They don't have apartments. > >>>>> Someone > >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the > food was not too good; it was > >>>>> mostly > >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. > >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if > a blind person cannot identify > >>>>> their > >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people > cannot read braille or print and > >>>>> cannot > >>>>> know what meds they have in what > bottle! > >>>>> But some blind people have the skills > already to take their meds. > >>>>> However, is this an individual > thing?  Does everyone have to relinquish > >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who > cannot take it independently yet? > >>>>> > >>>>> On their website it says you have to > agree to relocate after the > >>>>> program. > >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons > you stated. If you don't have > >>>>> friends > >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why > move there? > >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you > again. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ashley > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 > PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind > Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>>> > >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended > there for 4 weeks. That is one of > >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was > talking about. They have "lights > >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I > know, because I was there. They > >>>>> thought that every blind person needed > counseling. They called it > >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole > thing is a scam! They ship you off > >>>>> to another state once you've > graduated. Let's say, your home state is > >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You > go through the IRS program, (for > >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, > (since there are no jobs for you in > >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to > Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. > I want to stay in Arkansas. All > >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm > going to a state where I don't > >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's > all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of > training, but stay away from LWSB! > >>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>>> > >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy > wrote: > >>>>>> Hi > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I > will be going to lions world within > >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be > going for desktop support > >>>>>> technician > >>>>>> and then microsoft certified > systems engineer program. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Josh > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 00:42:43 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:42:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212004243.30297.20810@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Hello all. Normally I'm pretty quiet on this list but when I saw the post on lwsb I thought I'd chime in as well. I went to lwsb in 2008 and they don't have a nurse they have a medical cordinator. His name is Mike. He's not a nurse or anything like that he just helps people make whatever arrangements they may need. they do have dorms and as far a s a lights out rule they don't have that. they do have hours from about ten at night until about six in the morning whare you can't really have stuff up loud like you can't have the sterio blasting at that time but you couldn't do that in an apartment either. so. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 00:44:45 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:44:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow! Much has changed since 2007. That's when I was there. Yes, they have had a change in leadership, but some of the same things still go on. BTW, (Anmol,) I think I met you in Dallas, didn't I? Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as such. > There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones run by NFB. O! > and I forgot to address one more point that of taking one's meds. The > trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse but are not required > to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally the trainy's > responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you to remind you to take > your medison. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >> are 5 or more years past >> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old >> there. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> wrote: >> > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the >> 40's anymore. Or if it >> > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this >> internet thingie? >> > LOL! just kidding! >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> > >> > >> >>I don't know, but they've done this since their >> founding in 1946. >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> wrote: >> >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make >> everyone relinquish >> >>> medications? >> >>> That is dumbing really independent blind >> adults down to babys in my >> >>> opinion! >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >> >>> >> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's >> always warm in the dorm rooms. >> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to >> relinquish their meds. The >> >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) >> is out of tune. I hate old, >> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking >> the rules. He smoked in his >> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on >> whether I wanted a room mate or >> >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was >> always bragging about how >> >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for >> an evaluation, in 2007. I >> >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've >> received the mobility skills >> >>>> in school, and received my endependent >> living skills at LWSB. I only >> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an >> evaluation lasts. I made some >> >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my >> room mate,) were nothing but >> >>>> trouble. There are other places where he >> can get training without >> >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many >> of the trainees, allowed >> >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm >> allergic to dogs. >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >> wrote: >> >>>>> Joshua, >> >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs >> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >> >>>>> told >> >>>>> him to think through it, think about >> the rules and if he'd like to >> >>>>> abide >> >>>>> by >> >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't >> work. >> >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; >> now he wants to get a >> >>>>> certification; >> >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay >> confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend >> and did you go to another training >> >>>>> center afterward? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> But do they really have a lights out >> rule? Do they really have a >> >>>>> curphew >> >>>>> where you got to be in your room? >> >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. >> They don't have apartments. >> >>>>> Someone >> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the >> food was not too good; it was >> >>>>> mostly >> >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if >> a blind person cannot identify >> >>>>> their >> >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people >> cannot read braille or print and >> >>>>> cannot >> >>>>> know what meds they have in what >> bottle! >> >>>>> But some blind people have the skills >> already to take their meds. >> >>>>> However, is this an individual >> thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >> >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who >> cannot take it independently yet? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On their website it says you have to >> agree to relocate after the >> >>>>> program. >> >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons >> you stated. If you don't have >> >>>>> friends >> >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why >> move there? >> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you >> again. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ashley >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 >> PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>>> >> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended >> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was >> talking about. They have "lights >> >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I >> know, because I was there. They >> >>>>> thought that every blind person needed >> counseling. They called it >> >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole >> thing is a scam! They ship you off >> >>>>> to another state once you've >> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You >> go through the IRS program, (for >> >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, >> (since there are no jobs for you in >> >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to >> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. >> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm >> going to a state where I don't >> >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's >> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of >> training, but stay away from LWSB! >> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy >> wrote: >> >>>>>> Hi >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I >> will be going to lions world within >> >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be >> going for desktop support >> >>>>>> technician >> >>>>>> and then microsoft certified >> systems engineer program. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Josh >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 00:47:53 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:47:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212004753.30427.61177@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> You can't. You have to live on campus out there. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 00:49:00 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:49:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212004900.20980.96877@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Yes they have and they've turned out many successful people so. Obviously they're doing something right. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 00:52:44 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:52:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <20110212004753.30427.61177@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <900150.4547.qm@web162019.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Not anymore. They have a contract with a apartment complex off campus and even before you could live off campus. I had friends who lived off campus. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. wrote: > From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:47 PM > You can't.  You have to live on > campus out there. > > -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile > Network.  Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about > accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 00:55:45 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:55:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> You know folks I think we need to let Jush make his own decisions on what training he wants and ware he wants to go. Some of you may have been to lions worls and some of you may not have been there. It is not fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb training center or where ever else to say stuff that you've heard about lions world. Especially if you haven't been there. I've been there and I also went to lcb. I think lions world is doing a fine job like I say they've been doing it since the forties and since then they've turned out many successful blind people who have good careers so. Like I say obviously they're doing something right. If they weren't they would have closed their doors a long time ago. So those of you who haven't been there and are just saying what you've heard? Stop it. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 00:56:58 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 16:56:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <659335.89311.qm@web162011.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Josh I think we did meet in Dallas. I think you were with MR. Right right? Small world. Much has changed since 2007 with the new leadership and much still needs to change but things are getting better. Know place is perfect, but it is not as bad as some have made it out to be. Think how many people have benefited from it and have been able to get a job because of it. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:44 PM > Wow! Much has changed since 2007. > That's when I was there. Yes, they > have had a change in leadership, but some of the same > things still go > on. BTW, (Anmol,) I think I met you in Dallas, didn't I? > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, Anmol Bhatia > wrote: > > Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and > are treated as such. > > There is good and bad to every training centers even > the ones run by NFB. O! > > and I forgot to address one more point that of taking > one's meds. The > > trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse > but are not required > > to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally > the trainy's > > responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you > to remind you to take > > your medison. > > > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never > make me sad. Perhaps > > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is > vague, like a breeze > > among flowers. > > Hellen Keller > > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester > wrote: > > > >> From: Joshua Lester > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > >> > >> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM > >> Exactly! The majority of the trainees > >> are 5 or more years past > >> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only > 18-year-old > >> there. > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > >> wrote: > >> > They should get with the 21st century this > isn't the > >> 40's anymore.  Or if it > >> > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear > on this > >> internet thingie? > >> > LOL! just kidding! > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing > >> list" > >> > > >> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >> > > >> > > >> >>I don't know, but they've done this since > their > >> founding in 1946. > >> >> Blessings, Joshua > >> >> > >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > >> wrote: > >> >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and > make > >> everyone relinquish > >> >>> medications? > >> >>> That is dumbing really independent > blind > >> adults down to babys in my > >> >>> opinion! > >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" > >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students > >> mailing list" > >> >>> > >> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 > PM > >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! > It's > >> always warm in the dorm rooms. > >> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone > has to > >> relinquish their meds. The > >> >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a > musician,) > >> is out of tune. I hate old, > >> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept > breaking > >> the rules. He smoked in his > >> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice > on > >> whether I wanted a room mate or > >> >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, > because he was > >> always bragging about how > >> >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I > went for > >> an evaluation, in 2007. I > >> >>>> haven't attended a training > center. I've > >> received the mobility skills > >> >>>> in school, and received my > endependent > >> living skills at LWSB. I only > >> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long > an > >> evaluation lasts. I made some > >> >>>> friends, but some of them, > (including my > >> room mate,) were nothing but > >> >>>> trouble. There are other places > where he > >> can get training without > >> >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and > too many > >> of the trainees, allowed > >> >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. > I'm > >> allergic to dogs. > >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > >> > >> wrote: > >> >>>>> Joshua, > >> >>>>> I told Josh that on the other > nabs > >> list, the one belonging to ACB; I > >> >>>>> told > >> >>>>> him to think through it, > think about > >> the rules and if he'd like to > >> >>>>> abide > >> >>>>> by > >> >>>>> such restrictions.  It > didn't > >> work. > >> >>>>> Josh has already been to a > nfb center; > >> now he wants to get a > >> >>>>> certification; > >> >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to > stay > >> confined at LWSB to get that training. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you > attend > >> and did you go to another training > >> >>>>> center afterward? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> But do they really have a > lights out > >> rule?  Do they really have a > >> >>>>> curphew > >> >>>>> where you got to be in your > room? > >> >>>>> I know they got dorms and > roommates. > >> They don't have apartments. > >> >>>>> Someone > >> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list > that the > >> food was not too good; it was > >> >>>>> mostly > >> >>>>> fried food which is very > unhealthy. > >> >>>>> As to nurses, I can > understand that if > >> a blind person cannot identify > >> >>>>> their > >> >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind > people > >> cannot read braille or print and > >> >>>>> cannot > >> >>>>> know what meds they have in > what > >> bottle! > >> >>>>> But some blind people have > the skills > >> already to take their meds. > >> >>>>> However, is this an > individual > >> thing?  Does everyone have to relinquish > >> >>>>> their meds, or just the ones > who > >> cannot take it independently yet? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On their website it says you > have to > >> agree to relocate after the > >> >>>>> program. > >> >>>>> That sounds terrible for the > reasons > >> you stated. If you don't have > >> >>>>> friends > >> >>>>> or family down in say Georga, > then why > >> move there? > >> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear > from you > >> again. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Ashley > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester > >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, > 2011 4:04 > >> PM > >> >>>>> To: National Association of > Blind > >> Students mailing list > >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions > world > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I > attended > >> there for 4 weeks. That is one of > >> >>>>> those centers like the one > Tara was > >> talking about. They have "lights > >> >>>>> out," "nurses controling > meds," etc. I > >> know, because I was there. They > >> >>>>> thought that every blind > person needed > >> counseling. They called it > >> >>>>> assertiveness training. The > whole > >> thing is a scam! They ship you off > >> >>>>> to another state once you've > >> graduated. Let's say, your home state is > >> >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's > mine.) You > >> go through the IRS program, (for > >> >>>>> example.) Once you've > graduated, > >> (since there are no jobs for you in > >> >>>>> that field, they'll ship you > to > >> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > >> >>>>> somewhere else, without your > consent. > >> I want to stay in Arkansas. All > >> >>>>> of my family is here. You > think I'm > >> going to a state where I don't > >> >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! > That's > >> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > >> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that > kind of > >> training, but stay away from LWSB! > >> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy > > >> wrote: > >> >>>>>> Hi > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> I want to let you guys > know that I > >> will be going to lions world within > >> >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. > I will be > >> going for desktop support > >> >>>>>> technician > >> >>>>>> and then microsoft > certified > >> systems engineer program. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Josh > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list > >> options or get your account info for > >> >>>>>> nabs-l: > >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list > >> options or get your account info for > >> >>>>> nabs-l: > >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list > >> options or get your account info for > >> >>>>> nabs-l: > >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options > >> or get your account info for > >> >>>> nabs-l: > >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or > >> get your account info for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for > >> > nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your > >> account info for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 00:57:09 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:57:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212005709.30507.7317@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> yea and his name is Mike and he's a good guy so. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 02:00:26 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:00:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <793FA631-701A-4F97-8076-DB913F8CCFFC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <806796.65500.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Ignasi, >From everything you have described I don't think you really need to attend a training center. Your parents did what I wish every parent would do which is to have a attitude that a blind person can do anything if given the opportunity. Your parents installed the confidence that every parent should install in their kids which is to let them travel independently and do things and fail. That is better then any training that any of the NFB training centers or any other training center can provide. So I do not really think you need a training center. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > From: Ignasi Cambra > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 2:25 PM > Hello, > I've been reading emails from this thread for a while and > figured I would finally say something, without trying to > offend anyone as always. In very general terms, I feel as > though many times training centers are more useful to people > who become blind as adults or even as children. This is > because they must learn how to do things in ways they had > never imagined before. It's true that I'm saying this basing > myself on personal experiences alone, and without having too > much knowledge about training centers. I was born totally > blind and from the very beginning my parents made me find my > own ways to do pretty much everything. They were told that > me being blind didn't mean I couldn't do stuff, so even > though they weren't necessarily sure how I was going to > handle things, they let me try and fail over and over, which > I guess is the equivalent of training :). We all know that > blind people can do pretty much everything, but sometimes I > feel like they tend to wait a little too much until training > is given to them, when training might not be necessary. I > received a very small amount of orientation and mobility > training as a child, because at one point I saw that > operating a cane wasn't all that complicated. Once I > understood how traffic worked, my mom decided that I was > going to go to school by myself every day. I live in a very > large city so I had to take two busses to get there. I got > lost many times, and I had to call home several times for > someone to come and pick me up. But by age 11 I could > navigate the city pretty confidently. That's actually > earlier than any of my other siblings, because my mother was > really obsessed about me being independent, to the point > that the blind organization in Spain even suggested that she > was being a little irresponsible. She also sent me to all > kinds of random camps every summer in France and England (by > myself, with no other blind people) because she thought that > that would help me to be independent in all kinds of > situations. This is just an example to say that in my > particular case I don't feel like I need a training center > because I never had the choice to let other people do things > for me, so I had to learn how to do them. Still, I must say > that sometimes I have doubts about this, especially after I > attended the NFB national convention last year and saw that > everyone was talking about these training centers that I had > never heard about. After convention I thought about it for a > while, and ended up coming to the conclusion that I don't > really need training, but could I be wrong? I don't know > what everybody thinks about this. I don't think I need the > training, but what's true is that I am really not used to > being around other blind people. This sometimes really > bothers me because I am blind myself. My girlfriend is > sighted, and so are all my friends. I spend most of the year > playing concerts either by myself or with orchestras and > conductors who are also sighted. At this point I probably > wouldn't have time for training anyways, but I think the > part of it which involves getting to know other blind > individuals seems fun and interesting, just because I'm not > used to it. > > IC > On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > Hi Antonio and all, > > > > When I used the term "enlightened blind person" I was > being satirical, > > and poking a little fun at the notion that a training > center is > > magical or that training center graduates are > inherently superior to > > non-graduates. I don't genuinely believe in the > concept of an > > "enlightened blind person". > > > > As for need and benefit, I would agree with what Sean > said. I think we > > are always growing and can always gain a little more > confidence and > > knowledge by spending some time with competent blind > people, and a > > center is an excellent way to do that, but of course > this must be > > weighed against the cost of taking time out of your > life, as well as > > the cost to your rehab agency. > > > > Arielle > > > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > >> Al, > >> Good point; if you Need a training center > experience you got to prove it and > >> link it to your vocational goal. > >> If you just want to or say Oh I can benefit from > learning more of this or > >> that skill, that will not fly. > >> In these times of budget tightness and > accountability, everything has to be > >> justified. > >> Glad you pointed that directive out; its very > important to use for > >> justifications. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Al Spooner > >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:45 AM > >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list' > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I have not been able to follow every detail of > this thread topic, so please > >> excuse me if I am repeating something that has > already been mentioned. > >> > >> To help you define "need," what you have to do is > read a couple of sections > >> of our RSA regulations regarding informed > choice.  In so many words, the > >> regulations state that you are the person that > defines this need, and it > >> should be chosen to allow you to maximize your > individual potential. > >> > >> Below is a quote taken directly from a policy > directive, RSA-PD-01-03 dated > >> January 17, 2001, written by Dr. Fred Schroeder, > during his time as RSA > >> Commissioner. > >> Pay specific attention to the following verbiage > "consistent with the > >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, > abilities, capabilities, > >> interests, and informed choice" > >> > >> Below are the two sections of this directive that > I am referring too. > >> Beginning of quote: > >> "The 1998 amendments link the individual's > employment outcome with the > >> informed choice of the individual.  Section > 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act > >> specifies the description of the individual's > chosen employment outcome as a > >> "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates > that the  employment outcome > >> must be chosen by the individual and must be > consistent with the strengths, > >> resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, > capabilities, interests, and > >> informed choice of the individual.  The > respective responsibilities of the > >> individual and the State VR agency in working > toward the achievement of the > >> employment outcome must be described in the > IPE  (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i) > >> and (ii) of the Act)." > >> > >> "The link between the employment outcome and > informed choice is further > >> reinforced by the description of VR services in > section 103(a) of the Act as > >> "any services described in an individualized plan > for employment necessary > >> to assist an individual with a disability in > preparing for, securing, > >> retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that > is consistent with the > >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, > abilities, capabilities, > >> interests, and informed choice of the > individual."  This is a change from > >> the previous description of VR services as "any > goods or services necessary > >> to render an individual with a disability > employable."  These changes make > >> it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of > vocational rehabilitation > >> services that an eligible individual may need to > achieve a particular > >> employment goal should not be considered in > identifying the goal.  Instead, > >> the employment outcome must be based only on what > is consistent with the > >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, > abilities, capabilities, > >> interests, and informed choice of the > individual." > >> End of quote > >> > >> Al Spooner > >> Assistant Director > >> Outreach and Marketing > >> Blindness Learning In New Dimensions, Incorporated > (BLIND, Incorporated) > >> 100 East 22nd Street > >> Minneapolis, MN 55404 > >> Office: 612-872-0100 > >> Toll Free: 800-597-9558 > >> Fax: 612-872-9358 > >> Web Site: www.blindinc.org > >> Office E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf > >> Of Sean Whalen > >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > >> > >> Antonio, > >> > >> Is it justifiable to use financial resources to > buy a student a laptop that > >> that student could benefit from but does not > need? > >> > >> What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need > training, we could all sit > >> at home without skills or technology and collect > SSI, right? A need is vague > >> and undefined until you put it in the context of > an end to be achieved by > >> fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to > complete classes in > >> school. I could have used readers. I did, however, > need e-texts to perform > >> up to my potential in classes, as I very much > struggle with retaining > >> information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are > not what matter. The cost > >> of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed > against the prospective > >> benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are > what matter. > >> > >> I absolutely believe that any blind person could > benefit from attending a > >> training center. This said, I certainly do not > believe that all blind people > >> need to, or even should, attend a training center. > I chose to do so because > >> I was never taught to read in school. I felt that > the benefits to be gained > >> by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful > computer tips, travel tricks > >> and life lessons that I might pick up along the > way outweighed the cost of > >> my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the > training. I have no doubt > >> I could have been successful in life without > spending time in Ruston, but I > >> definitely feel that I took more away from the > experience than I gave up to > >> go. Each of us must make our own calculations > based on cost/benefit analysis > >> to determine what is the best option for us as > individuals. > >> > >> Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life > success. Not attending a > >> center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of > people who attend centers won't > >> reach their true potential, and plenty of people > who do not attend will do > >> so. > >> > >> Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry > from claiming that everybody > >> ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people > benefit in one way or another > >> from almost every experience each of us has. This > might not make them good, > >> enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is > still some benefit to be > >> gained in virtually all circumstances. > >> > >> More to the point, whether, and how, to get > training is a highly individual > >> choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of > one's skill level, age, > >> family situation, employment status and prospects, > and myriad other things. > >> Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend > a center is being > >> doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge > the benefits, in many cases > >> vast benefits, that good training can yield is > being equally rigid and > >> dogmatic. > >> > >> By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I > just found your post to be > >> a good jumping off point. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Sean > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. > >> org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Arielle Silverman > > President, National Association of Blind Students > > Phone:  602-502-2255 > > Email: > > nabs.president at gmail.com > > Website: > > www.nabslink.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 02:04:03 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:04:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: MIUSA Exchange Programs in 2011 Message-ID: <499924.44067.qm@web162001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Mobility International USA wrote: > From: Mobility International USA > Subject: MIUSA Exchange Programs in 2011 > To: NDSU at LISTSERV.UIC.EDU > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 2:35 PM > **Accessibility information at > bottom** > > In this Issue: > The Year Ahead: MIUSA's 2011 Exchange Programs > Opportunities with MIUSA > How Can You Help? > News & Announcements > > Dear ndsu, > > Over 100 emerging and professional leaders with > disabilities from around the > world took part in a MIUSA international exchange program > in 2010! Read > below to learn how you or someone you know can become > involved in one of > our unique disability-rights leadership exchange programs > for youth and > adults with diverse disabilities. If you have any questions > about these > programs, please let us know. > > THE YEAR AHEAD: MIUSA'S 2011 EXCHANGE PROGRAMS > 2011 marks MIUSA's 30th year of hosting cross-cultural > disability-rights > exchange programs! Join us in celebrating this important > milestone in MIUSA > history by spreading the word about the exciting > opportunities listed below > for 2011. > > International High School Students with Disabilities Study > Abroad in the > U.S.! This year MIUSA is fostering successful study abroad > experiences > for 28 high school students with disabilities from 17 > countries. As these > students embark upon academics across the U.S., we are > supporting them as > they prepare for life as young people with disabilities in > a new country. > During the MIUSA program, students will learn how to > overcome barriers > related to accessibility and inclusion, build > self-confidence and gain > leadership and self advocacy skills for a successful year > abroad. The > students will return to MIUSA in the Spring to reflect on > their > disability-related experience and how they can be > rolemodels for other > students with disabilities in their home countries. Learn > more! http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/flexyesasmyle/hs2011 > > U.S. and Bahrain Professionals Collaborate to Increase > Inclusive Sport & > Recreation Programs for Youth with Disabilities. As part of > a reciprocal > program, MIUSA will take eight U.S. professionals on a > 14-day exchange > program to the Kingdom of Bahrain to offer expertise in > disability-inclusive > programming strategies for non-elite sport and recreation > programs. This > program is designed to address the needs of youth with > disabilities to be > active participants in their communities and to increase > the capacity of > physical education instructors, coaches, community leaders > and government > officials to include youth with disabilities in their > programs. Learn > more! http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/bahrain > > Increasing Participation of Youth with Disabilities in > Sports and > Recreation Activities in China. This Spring MIUSA will > welcome ten sports > and recreation professionals with and without disabilities > from China. The > two-week interactive program is designed to address the > needs of youth with > disabilities to be active participants in society by > increasing their > involvement in sport and recreation activities. This > program will increase > the capacity of participants to provide inclusive > recreation, sport and > physical education programs that enable youth with and > without disabilities > to participate together. Learn more! http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/china/chinaprograms > > Young Adults with Disabilities from New York City to Gain > Cross-Cultural > Leadership Skills in Spain. Eight young adults with > disabilities from New > York City will kick-off their summer in Madrid, Spain on > MIUSA's 10-day > leadership exchange program! This program will bring the > group of emerging > leaders together to participate in dialogue about > disability rights and to > learn about the cultures, food, languages and traditions of > Spain. We are > NOW ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS! The deadline to apply is March > 1st, 2011. Visit > our website to learn more and to apply! http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/spain/spain2011 > > Grassroots Women Leaders with Disabilities from Jordan come > to the U.S. to > Create Collaborative Plans for Full Inclusion. Ten young > women > professionals with disabilities from Jordan will be > selected to travel to > Eugene, Oregon for a three-week program to build effective > leadership > skills, develop strategic plans for increasing the > participation of women > and girls with disabilities in society and strengthen the > capacity of > grassroots organizations to advocate for their empowerment. > The program will > address priority issues for women and girls with > disabilities including > community-based support, legal literacy, organizational > development and > sustainability, project development, funding and > educational rights among > others. Learn more! http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/jordan/jordan > > OPPORTUNITIES WITH MIUSA > MIUSA is currently accepting applications for one exchange > program in > 2011. > > 2011 U.S./Spain: Cross-Cultural Perspectives on Disability > Rights > Leadership Exchange Program > Dates: June 24 - July 4, 2011 > Location: Madrid, Spain > Who: Eight young adults, ages 18 - 24, with diverse > disabilities from NEW > YORK CITY. Individuals with disabilities who are first time > travelers and/or > are from low income backgrounds are strongly encouraged to > apply! > Application instructions: NOW ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS! > Scholarships > provided. Deadline to apply is March 1st, 2011. Visit our > website to > LEARN MORE and APPLY! http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/spain/spain2011 > > HOW CAN YOU HELP? > There are many ways you can support people with > disabilities around the > world to achieve their human rights! Pursue your dream of > making a > difference and take a moment to browse the many ways to > become involved: >   * Become a host family for international visitors > with diverse >     disabilities! >   * Spread the word! Post one of our program flyers > (Spain program >     flyer) or posters in your school, study > abroad office or place of >     work. > http://www.miusa.org/exchange/currentprogs/spain/spainflyer > http://www.miusa.org/publications/products/poster >   * Sponsor a person with a disability to go overseas > on a MIUSA >     exchange program by making a donation to the > Mike & Lisa Sygall >     Scholarship Fund! > http://www.miusa.org/donate >   * Employment, volunteer and internship opportunities > with MIUSA. > http://www.miusa.org/about-miusa/jobs-and-internships/positionsavailable >   * Donation items needed for exchange programs: > camping supplies >     (tents, sleeping bags, sleeping pads, > pillows) and office supplies. > http://www.miusa.org/donate > > NEWS & ANNOUNCEMENTS >   * Watch our WILD music video featuring women with > disabilities from >     around the world who celebrate their > achievements, pride and solidarity!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxxomUVsSik >   * New web feature! Check-out our map and photos from > recent exchange >     programs: http://www.miusa.org/exchange/history/programmap >   * MIUSA launches a blog! Add us to your news feed > and send your >     thoughts on featured blog topics: http://www.miusablog.org >   * MIUSA's clearninghouse publishes new tipsheets and > stories from >     international travelers with disabilities. >     http://www.miusa.org/ncde/tipsheets >     http://www.miusa.org/ncde/stories >   * Disability leadership and inclusion resources now > availalbe on the >     web!: http://www.miusa.org/exchange > > Any questions? Email exchange at miusa.org > or call 541-343-1284 tel/tty. > > > Challenge Yourself and Change the World!® > Mobility International USA, a non-profit organization > founded in 1981, empowers people with disabilities around > the world to achieve their human rights through > international exchange and international development. > > Unsubscribe NDSU at LISTSERV.UIC.EDU > from this list: > http://miusa.us1.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=d39e81314218b930d5315426a&id=d7231be449&e=693aKyXPhw&c=0d0b299b00 > > [26]Remove me from this list >   Links: >     26. http://miusa.us1.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=d39e81314218b930d5315426a&id=d7231be449&e=693aKyXPhw&c=0d0b299b00 > > Our mailing address is: > Mobility International USA > 132 E. Broadway > Suite 343 > Eugene, Oregon 97401 > > Our telephone: > 541-343-1284 tel/tty > > ------------------------------------------------------- > If you are having trouble accessing this listserv please > contact Joe Hall at jozhall at gmail.com > ------------------------------------------------------- > ACCESS IS A CIVIL RIGHT!! Please DO NOT forget to include a > topic in the subject of every message you send to the NDSU > listserv. > > NDSU List Topics: CURR, ORG, GOV, DS, and ANN. > > CURR: for current events. Education about current issues. > ORG: for discussions of organizing. Practical education. > GOV: Includes legislative, judicial, and executive > information, organization, and calls to action on government > issues. Political education. > DS: for discussions of disability as a political and > cultural issue. Theoretical education. > ANN: for any general announcements and housekeeping, > including discussions concerning accessibility. > > If you would like to change the topics that you are > currently subscribed to, go to: http://listserv.uic.edu/htbin/wa?LMGT1 > > For more information on NDSU visit: > www.disabledstudents.org > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 02:46:54 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:46:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian, Because some centers treat adults like children. Adults at centers may not have the skills to live, but they are still adults who can think and make decissions, and need to be treated as such. I know nurses are at the carroll center. But I don't know what role they play. Do they administer meds to everyone, or just those who can't handle it yet themselves? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to babys in my opinion! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. > Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The > piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, > out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his > dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or > not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how > much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I > haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills > in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only > stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some > friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but > trouble. There are other places where he can get training without > going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed > their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Joshua, >> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told >> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >> by >> such restrictions. It didn't work. >> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >> certification; >> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >> center afterward? >> >> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew >> where you got to be in your room? >> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone >> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >> their >> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >> cannot >> know what meds they have in what bottle! >> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >> >> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. >> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >> friends >> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 12 03:05:43 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:05:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sleep Disorder Study Message-ID: I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Sleep disorder study Announcing an upcoming sleep study focusing on totally blind individuals. The Light House International of New York and the New York Eye and Ear Hospital Are looking for blind individuals with no light perception to participate in this study. Do you have problems sleeping or trouble with daytime sleepiness? If you qualify would you like to earn $1500 while you sleep? Non-24-hour sleep wake disorder occurs in some individuals who are totally blind and lack the light sensitivity necessary to reset the “body clock”. This can lead to problems with sleep and/or daytime excessive sleepiness. You can help researchers understand non-24-hour sleep wake disorder by taking a brief phone survey. In addition, you will have the opportunity to be informed of upcoming clinical studies recruiting in your area. Survey Participants Need to: · be over 18 years of age · be blind with no light perception · have sleep problems and/or daytime sleepiness Collected information will be kept strictly confidential. If you want to participate in the study, please call Katy Tai at 212-979-4251 or toll-free 1-212-821-9499, Monday-Friday between 9:00 AM and 5:00 PM ET. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 03:20:04 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:20:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers In-Reply-To: <806796.65500.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <806796.65500.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ignasi, Anmol is right. If parents raise you with the skills and let you have opportunity like other sighted kids, that is wonderful. Then you develop the skills as you grow up. Problem solving and experiementing and just practicing through opportunity is the right way. That is better than any training center can do. You got your training growing up. I wish more parents would have progressive attitudes. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers Ignasi, >From everything you have described I don't think you really need to attend >a training center. Your parents did what I wish every parent would do which >is to have a attitude that a blind person can do anything if given the >opportunity. Your parents installed the confidence that every parent should >install in their kids which is to let them travel independently and do >things and fail. That is better then any training that any of the NFB >training centers or any other training center can provide. So I do not >really think you need a training center. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > From: Ignasi Cambra > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 2:25 PM > Hello, > I've been reading emails from this thread for a while and > figured I would finally say something, without trying to > offend anyone as always. In very general terms, I feel as > though many times training centers are more useful to people > who become blind as adults or even as children. This is > because they must learn how to do things in ways they had > never imagined before. It's true that I'm saying this basing > myself on personal experiences alone, and without having too > much knowledge about training centers. I was born totally > blind and from the very beginning my parents made me find my > own ways to do pretty much everything. They were told that > me being blind didn't mean I couldn't do stuff, so even > though they weren't necessarily sure how I was going to > handle things, they let me try and fail over and over, which > I guess is the equivalent of training :). We all know that > blind people can do pretty much everything, but sometimes I > feel like they tend to wait a little too much until training > is given to them, when training might not be necessary. I > received a very small amount of orientation and mobility > training as a child, because at one point I saw that > operating a cane wasn't all that complicated. Once I > understood how traffic worked, my mom decided that I was > going to go to school by myself every day. I live in a very > large city so I had to take two busses to get there. I got > lost many times, and I had to call home several times for > someone to come and pick me up. But by age 11 I could > navigate the city pretty confidently. That's actually > earlier than any of my other siblings, because my mother was > really obsessed about me being independent, to the point > that the blind organization in Spain even suggested that she > was being a little irresponsible. She also sent me to all > kinds of random camps every summer in France and England (by > myself, with no other blind people) because she thought that > that would help me to be independent in all kinds of > situations. This is just an example to say that in my > particular case I don't feel like I need a training center > because I never had the choice to let other people do things > for me, so I had to learn how to do them. Still, I must say > that sometimes I have doubts about this, especially after I > attended the NFB national convention last year and saw that > everyone was talking about these training centers that I had > never heard about. After convention I thought about it for a > while, and ended up coming to the conclusion that I don't > really need training, but could I be wrong? I don't know > what everybody thinks about this. I don't think I need the > training, but what's true is that I am really not used to > being around other blind people. This sometimes really > bothers me because I am blind myself. My girlfriend is > sighted, and so are all my friends. I spend most of the year > playing concerts either by myself or with orchestras and > conductors who are also sighted. At this point I probably > wouldn't have time for training anyways, but I think the > part of it which involves getting to know other blind > individuals seems fun and interesting, just because I'm not > used to it. > > IC > On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > > Hi Antonio and all, > > > > When I used the term "enlightened blind person" I was > being satirical, > > and poking a little fun at the notion that a training > center is > > magical or that training center graduates are > inherently superior to > > non-graduates. I don't genuinely believe in the > concept of an > > "enlightened blind person". > > > > As for need and benefit, I would agree with what Sean > said. I think we > > are always growing and can always gain a little more > confidence and > > knowledge by spending some time with competent blind > people, and a > > center is an excellent way to do that, but of course > this must be > > weighed against the cost of taking time out of your > life, as well as > > the cost to your rehab agency. > > > > Arielle > > > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > >> Al, > >> Good point; if you Need a training center > experience you got to prove it and > >> link it to your vocational goal. > >> If you just want to or say Oh I can benefit from > learning more of this or > >> that skill, that will not fly. > >> In these times of budget tightness and > accountability, everything has to be > >> justified. > >> Glad you pointed that directive out; its very > important to use for > >> justifications. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Al Spooner > >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:45 AM > >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students > mailing list' > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I have not been able to follow every detail of > this thread topic, so please > >> excuse me if I am repeating something that has > already been mentioned. > >> > >> To help you define "need," what you have to do is > read a couple of sections > >> of our RSA regulations regarding informed > choice. In so many words, the > >> regulations state that you are the person that > defines this need, and it > >> should be chosen to allow you to maximize your > individual potential. > >> > >> Below is a quote taken directly from a policy > directive, RSA-PD-01-03 dated > >> January 17, 2001, written by Dr. Fred Schroeder, > during his time as RSA > >> Commissioner. > >> Pay specific attention to the following verbiage > "consistent with the > >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, > abilities, capabilities, > >> interests, and informed choice" > >> > >> Below are the two sections of this directive that > I am referring too. > >> Beginning of quote: > >> "The 1998 amendments link the individual's > employment outcome with the > >> informed choice of the individual. Section > 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act > >> specifies the description of the individual's > chosen employment outcome as a > >> "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates > that the employment outcome > >> must be chosen by the individual and must be > consistent with the strengths, > >> resources, priorities, concerns, abilities, > capabilities, interests, and > >> informed choice of the individual. The > respective responsibilities of the > >> individual and the State VR agency in working > toward the achievement of the > >> employment outcome must be described in the > IPE (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i) > >> and (ii) of the Act)." > >> > >> "The link between the employment outcome and > informed choice is further > >> reinforced by the description of VR services in > section 103(a) of the Act as > >> "any services described in an individualized plan > for employment necessary > >> to assist an individual with a disability in > preparing for, securing, > >> retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that > is consistent with the > >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, > abilities, capabilities, > >> interests, and informed choice of the > individual." This is a change from > >> the previous description of VR services as "any > goods or services necessary > >> to render an individual with a disability > employable." These changes make > >> it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of > vocational rehabilitation > >> services that an eligible individual may need to > achieve a particular > >> employment goal should not be considered in > identifying the goal. Instead, > >> the employment outcome must be based only on what > is consistent with the > >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns, > abilities, capabilities, > >> interests, and informed choice of the > individual." > >> End of quote > >> > >> Al Spooner > >> Assistant Director > >> Outreach and Marketing > >> Blindness Learning In New Dimensions, Incorporated > (BLIND, Incorporated) > >> 100 East 22nd Street > >> Minneapolis, MN 55404 > >> Office: 612-872-0100 > >> Toll Free: 800-597-9558 > >> Fax: 612-872-9358 > >> Web Site: www.blindinc.org > >> Office E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On Behalf > >> Of Sean Whalen > >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers > >> > >> Antonio, > >> > >> Is it justifiable to use financial resources to > buy a student a laptop that > >> that student could benefit from but does not > need? > >> > >> What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need > training, we could all sit > >> at home without skills or technology and collect > SSI, right? A need is vague > >> and undefined until you put it in the context of > an end to be achieved by > >> fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to > complete classes in > >> school. I could have used readers. I did, however, > need e-texts to perform > >> up to my potential in classes, as I very much > struggle with retaining > >> information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are > not what matter. The cost > >> of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed > against the prospective > >> benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are > what matter. > >> > >> I absolutely believe that any blind person could > benefit from attending a > >> training center. This said, I certainly do not > believe that all blind people > >> need to, or even should, attend a training center. > I chose to do so because > >> I was never taught to read in school. I felt that > the benefits to be gained > >> by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful > computer tips, travel tricks > >> and life lessons that I might pick up along the > way outweighed the cost of > >> my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the > training. I have no doubt > >> I could have been successful in life without > spending time in Ruston, but I > >> definitely feel that I took more away from the > experience than I gave up to > >> go. Each of us must make our own calculations > based on cost/benefit analysis > >> to determine what is the best option for us as > individuals. > >> > >> Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life > success. Not attending a > >> center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of > people who attend centers won't > >> reach their true potential, and plenty of people > who do not attend will do > >> so. > >> > >> Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry > from claiming that everybody > >> ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people > benefit in one way or another > >> from almost every experience each of us has. This > might not make them good, > >> enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is > still some benefit to be > >> gained in virtually all circumstances. > >> > >> More to the point, whether, and how, to get > training is a highly individual > >> choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of > one's skill level, age, > >> family situation, employment status and prospects, > and myriad other things. > >> Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend > a center is being > >> doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge > the benefits, in many cases > >> vast benefits, that good training can yield is > being equally rigid and > >> dogmatic. > >> > >> By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I > just found your post to be > >> a good jumping off point. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Sean > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. > >> org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Arielle Silverman > > President, National Association of Blind Students > > Phone: 602-502-2255 > > Email: > > nabs.president at gmail.com > > Website: > > www.nabslink.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 12 03:20:33 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:20:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] BANA Announcement on NUBS Evaluation Message-ID: > >Press Release > >February 2011 > >For Immediate Release > > > >CONTACT: Judith Dixon, Chairperson > >Braille Authority of North America > >Phone: 202-707-0722 > >Email: jdix at loc.gov > > > > > >BANA Announces Results of NUBS Evaluation > > > >The Braille Authority of North America, (BANA) has concluded a >two-year evaluation study of the Nemeth Uniform Braille System >(NUBS). BANA will publish the complete results of the study on its >website in late February. > > > >NUBS is an outgrowth of the Nemeth Braille Code of Mathematics and >Science Notation, which was first published in 1965. Its developer, >Dr. Abraham Nemeth, reports that this new system has been in >development for ten years and is capable of rendering both literary >and technical texts. > > > >The evaluation of NUBS was handled by BANA's Braille Research >Committee, which employed several research strategies including >timed reading tests, focus groups, and a questionnaire based on a >sampler of various texts written in NUBS. Dr. Frances Mary D'Andrea >and Dr. Diane Wormsley, Co-Chairs of the research committee, shared >preliminary statements that reflect the results of the committee's >evaluation of NUBS: > * An examination of reading speed was conducted using the > measure of characters per second. The results of the examination > provided some limited evidence that NUBS was slower in general than > current braille codes. > * The results of the sampler questionnaire suggested that, while > people who reviewed the sampler found text written in NUBS > generally not difficult to read, opinions expressed in the > responses to the NUBS questionnaire as well as open-ended comments > that were included by participants were generally much more > negative than positive. > * Positive comments about NUBS included reference to the concept > of a single code rather than three separate ones; ease of learning > due to familiarity with Nemeth; preference for dropped numbers; and > potential for increasing the accuracy of transcription into > braille. Negative comments included the increased bulk of NUBS > compared to the current code; lack of necessity for changes since > the current code works well; dislike for certain symbols of NUBS > such as the modes; cumbersomeness of NUBS for writing; and concern > about needing to show all the print indicators. Other questions and > concerns raised included the potential impact on children learning > braille and on current braille readers, particularly adults; the > cost of implementation; the cost of producing books; the fact that > no other country is considering the use of NUBS; and the lack of > transcribers and teachers who know NUBS. > > > >When the complete evaluation report is posted on its website, BANA >will send a notification to the subscribers of the BANA-Announce >e-mail list that disseminates official BANA information. To join >this one-way e-mail list, send a blank email message to >bana-announce-subscribe at brailleauthority.org >and follow the directions in the confirmation email that will be >sent in response. > > > >For additional resource information, visit >www.brailleauthority.org > > > >The mission and purpose of the Braille Authority of North America >are to assure literacy for tactile readers through the >standardization of braille and/or tactile graphics. BANA promotes >and facilitates the use, teaching, and production of braille. It >publishes rules, interprets, and renders opinions pertaining to >braille in all existing codes. It deals with codes now in existence >or to be developed in the future, in collaboration with other >countries using English braille. In exercising its function and >authority, BANA considers the effects of its decisions on other >existing braille codes and formats; the ease of production by >various methods; and acceptability to readers. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >BANA-Announce mailing list >BANA-Announce at brailleauthority.org >http://www.brailleauthority.org/mailman/listinfo/bana-announce From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 03:29:58 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:29:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> References: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Dave, Wow, that is some tone. I was asking questions. It was Joshua Lester who criticized LWSB. I agree people need to make their own decissions regarding training. But I'd also like to let Josh and consumers know what really happens at centers. That is what informed choice is about. BTW I have not been to any private center as an adult; I did attend our state center in Richmond though. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:55 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world You know folks I think we need to let Jush make his own decisions on what training he wants and ware he wants to go. Some of you may have been to lions worls and some of you may not have been there. It is not fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb training center or where ever else to say stuff that you've heard about lions world. Especially if you haven't been there. I've been there and I also went to lcb. I think lions world is doing a fine job like I say they've been doing it since the forties and since then they've turned out many successful blind people who have good careers so. Like I say obviously they're doing something right. If they weren't they would have closed their doors a long time ago. So those of you who haven't been there and are just saying what you've heard? Stop it. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 03:32:04 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:32:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <900150.4547.qm@web162019.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <900150.4547.qm@web162019.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <040BF7C0741D4324801D42BC96B6B8F6@OwnerPC> Anmol, I'm confused. Are you saying you can live off campus in an apartment if you choose to? If you went there, how long and which program did you do? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world Not anymore. They have a contract with a apartment complex off campus and even before you could live off campus. I had friends who lived off campus. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. wrote: > From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:47 PM > You can't. You have to live on > campus out there. > > -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile > Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about > accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 03:38:02 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:38:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: LWSB is good for some things, but they could make some improvements. I would've gone to the Assistive Technology program, but they would've shipped me off to Florida. What they need to do, is have a survey. In this survey, they should ask the following questions. #1. Where do you live? and #2. Are there any jobs in your community, that a blind person can do? That way, the trainee can be trained in a profession that they can work in, and stay in their community. That's the point! Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Dave, > Wow, that is some tone. I was asking questions. > It was Joshua Lester who criticized LWSB. > I agree people need to make their own decissions regarding training. > But I'd also like to let Josh and consumers know what really happens at > centers. > That is what informed choice is about. > BTW I have not been to any private center as an adult; I did attend our > state center in Richmond though. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:55 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > You know folks I think we need to let Jush make his own decisions on > what training he wants and ware he wants to go. Some of you may have > been to lions worls and some of you may not have been there. It is not > fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb training center or where > ever else to say stuff that you've heard about lions world. Especially > if you haven't been there. I've been there and I also went to lcb. I > think lions world is doing a fine job like I say they've been doing it > since the forties and since then they've turned out many successful > blind people who have good careers so. Like I say obviously they're > doing something right. If they weren't they would have closed their > doors a long time ago. So those of you who haven't been there and are > just saying what you've heard? Stop it. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 03:40:04 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:40:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> Anmol, When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy in policy and people's experiences has to do with the leadership there. Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over meds to a nurse. You said its optional. Some centers have a rule where you have to be cleared by an O&M staff person. Is this the case at LWSB before you can go off campus? Also acording to the LWSB website, they still have a psychologist and psychiatrist on staff. Is that the case? If so, do you have to take the counseling class, assertive training I think they call it? Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as such. There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones run by NFB. O! and I forgot to address one more point that of taking one's meds. The trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse but are not required to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally the trainy's responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you to remind you to take your medison. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM > Exactly! The majority of the trainees > are 5 or more years past > "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old > there. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > wrote: > > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the > 40's anymore. Or if it > > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this > internet thingie? > > LOL! just kidding! > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > > > > >>I don't know, but they've done this since their > founding in 1946. > >> Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > wrote: > >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make > everyone relinquish > >>> medications? > >>> That is dumbing really independent blind > adults down to babys in my > >>> opinion! > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Joshua Lester" > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>> > >>> > >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's > always warm in the dorm rooms. > >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to > relinquish their meds. The > >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) > is out of tune. I hate old, > >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking > the rules. He smoked in his > >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on > whether I wanted a room mate or > >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was > always bragging about how > >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for > an evaluation, in 2007. I > >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've > received the mobility skills > >>>> in school, and received my endependent > living skills at LWSB. I only > >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an > evaluation lasts. I made some > >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my > room mate,) were nothing but > >>>> trouble. There are other places where he > can get training without > >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many > of the trainees, allowed > >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm > allergic to dogs. > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > >>>>> Joshua, > >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs > list, the one belonging to ACB; I > >>>>> told > >>>>> him to think through it, think about > the rules and if he'd like to > >>>>> abide > >>>>> by > >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't > work. > >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; > now he wants to get a > >>>>> certification; > >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay > confined at LWSB to get that training. > >>>>> > >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend > and did you go to another training > >>>>> center afterward? > >>>>> > >>>>> But do they really have a lights out > rule? Do they really have a > >>>>> curphew > >>>>> where you got to be in your room? > >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. > They don't have apartments. > >>>>> Someone > >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the > food was not too good; it was > >>>>> mostly > >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. > >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if > a blind person cannot identify > >>>>> their > >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people > cannot read braille or print and > >>>>> cannot > >>>>> know what meds they have in what > bottle! > >>>>> But some blind people have the skills > already to take their meds. > >>>>> However, is this an individual > thing? Does everyone have to relinquish > >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who > cannot take it independently yet? > >>>>> > >>>>> On their website it says you have to > agree to relocate after the > >>>>> program. > >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons > you stated. If you don't have > >>>>> friends > >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why > move there? > >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you > again. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ashley > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 > PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind > Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>>> > >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended > there for 4 weeks. That is one of > >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was > talking about. They have "lights > >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I > know, because I was there. They > >>>>> thought that every blind person needed > counseling. They called it > >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole > thing is a scam! They ship you off > >>>>> to another state once you've > graduated. Let's say, your home state is > >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You > go through the IRS program, (for > >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, > (since there are no jobs for you in > >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to > Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. > I want to stay in Arkansas. All > >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm > going to a state where I don't > >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's > all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of > training, but stay away from LWSB! > >>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>>> > >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy > wrote: > >>>>>> Hi > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I > will be going to lions world within > >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be > going for desktop support > >>>>>> technician > >>>>>> and then microsoft certified > systems engineer program. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Josh > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 03:42:01 2011 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:42:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <4D560189.6050200@gmail.com> Actually Mr. Josh, he point of Lions World is to get you employed. In the sign up process, they ask you if you mind relocating. If you do, there are programs such as the IRS program that you probably can't get. If you have issues with that, don't go. If you want to find a job in your community, then do it. On 02/11/2011 09:38 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > LWSB is good for some things, but they could make some improvements. I > would've gone to the Assistive Technology program, but they would've > shipped me off to Florida. What they need to do, is have a survey. In > this survey, they should ask the following questions. #1. Where do you > live? and #2. Are there any jobs in your community, that a blind > person can do? That way, the trainee can be trained in a profession > that they can work in, and stay in their community. That's the point! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Dave, >> Wow, that is some tone. I was asking questions. >> It was Joshua Lester who criticized LWSB. >> I agree people need to make their own decissions regarding training. >> But I'd also like to let Josh and consumers know what really happens at >> centers. >> That is what informed choice is about. >> BTW I have not been to any private center as an adult; I did attend our >> state center in Richmond though. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:55 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> You know folks I think we need to let Jush make his own decisions on >> what training he wants and ware he wants to go. Some of you may have >> been to lions worls and some of you may not have been there. It is not >> fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb training center or where >> ever else to say stuff that you've heard about lions world. Especially >> if you haven't been there. I've been there and I also went to lcb. I >> think lions world is doing a fine job like I say they've been doing it >> since the forties and since then they've turned out many successful >> blind people who have good careers so. Like I say obviously they're >> doing something right. If they weren't they would have closed their >> doors a long time ago. So those of you who haven't been there and are >> just saying what you've heard? Stop it. >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 03:42:17 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:42:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <20110212004243.30297.20810@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> References: <20110212004243.30297.20810@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Dave, The quiet rule sounds very reasonable; that was a rule in the dorm at the state center in VA too. I'm glad you liked your experience. Maybe tell the list what you got from it? Job training? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:42 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world Hello all. Normally I'm pretty quiet on this list but when I saw the post on lwsb I thought I'd chime in as well. I went to lwsb in 2008 and they don't have a nurse they have a medical cordinator. His name is Mike. He's not a nurse or anything like that he just helps people make whatever arrangements they may need. they do have dorms and as far a s a lights out rule they don't have that. they do have hours from about ten at night until about six in the morning whare you can't really have stuff up loud like you can't have the sterio blasting at that time but you couldn't do that in an apartment either. so. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 03:44:05 2011 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:44:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> References: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4D560205.8090509@gmail.com> Nobody forces you to go to counseling. Thanks. On 02/11/2011 09:40 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Anmol, > When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy in policy and people's > experiences has to do with the leadership there. > Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over meds to a nurse. You said > its optional. > Some centers have a rule where you have to be cleared by an O&M staff > person. Is this > the case at LWSB before you can go off campus? > > Also acording to the LWSB website, they still have a psychologist and > psychiatrist on staff. > Is that the case? If so, do you have to take the counseling class, > assertive training I think they call it? > > Thanks. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as > such. There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones > run by NFB. O! and I forgot to address one more point that of taking > one's meds. The trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse > but are not required to do so. However, coming to take the meds is > totally the trainy's responsibility. The nerse will not come and find > you to remind you to take your medison. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. > Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, > like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester > wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >> are 5 or more years past >> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old >> there. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> wrote: >> > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the >> 40's anymore. Or if it >> > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this >> internet thingie? >> > LOL! just kidding! >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> > >> > >> >>I don't know, but they've done this since their >> founding in 1946. >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> wrote: >> >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make >> everyone relinquish >> >>> medications? >> >>> That is dumbing really independent blind >> adults down to babys in my >> >>> opinion! >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >> >>> >> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's >> always warm in the dorm rooms. >> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to >> relinquish their meds. The >> >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) >> is out of tune. I hate old, >> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking >> the rules. He smoked in his >> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on >> whether I wanted a room mate or >> >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was >> always bragging about how >> >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for >> an evaluation, in 2007. I >> >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've >> received the mobility skills >> >>>> in school, and received my endependent >> living skills at LWSB. I only >> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an >> evaluation lasts. I made some >> >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my >> room mate,) were nothing but >> >>>> trouble. There are other places where he >> can get training without >> >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many >> of the trainees, allowed >> >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm >> allergic to dogs. >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >> wrote: >> >>>>> Joshua, >> >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs >> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >> >>>>> told >> >>>>> him to think through it, think about >> the rules and if he'd like to >> >>>>> abide >> >>>>> by >> >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't >> work. >> >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; >> now he wants to get a >> >>>>> certification; >> >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay >> confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend >> and did you go to another training >> >>>>> center afterward? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> But do they really have a lights out >> rule? Do they really have a >> >>>>> curphew >> >>>>> where you got to be in your room? >> >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. >> They don't have apartments. >> >>>>> Someone >> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the >> food was not too good; it was >> >>>>> mostly >> >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if >> a blind person cannot identify >> >>>>> their >> >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people >> cannot read braille or print and >> >>>>> cannot >> >>>>> know what meds they have in what >> bottle! >> >>>>> But some blind people have the skills >> already to take their meds. >> >>>>> However, is this an individual >> thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >> >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who >> cannot take it independently yet? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On their website it says you have to >> agree to relocate after the >> >>>>> program. >> >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons >> you stated. If you don't have >> >>>>> friends >> >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why >> move there? >> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you >> again. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ashley >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 >> PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>>> >> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended >> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was >> talking about. They have "lights >> >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I >> know, because I was there. They >> >>>>> thought that every blind person needed >> counseling. They called it >> >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole >> thing is a scam! They ship you off >> >>>>> to another state once you've >> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You >> go through the IRS program, (for >> >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, >> (since there are no jobs for you in >> >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to >> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. >> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm >> going to a state where I don't >> >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's >> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of >> training, but stay away from LWSB! >> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy >> wrote: >> >>>>>> Hi >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I >> will be going to lions world within >> >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be >> going for desktop support >> >>>>>> technician >> >>>>>> and then microsoft certified >> systems engineer program. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Josh >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 03:46:48 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:46:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> References: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <5B77BD28881F4C45A18FEB85BE25ED74@OwnerPC> Dave, Which did you attend first, LCB or LWSB? Are students free to do what they want after classes at LWSB? Is there a difference in the amount of freedom you have at the centers you attended? Some centers are more restrictive than others that are not NFB driven. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:55 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world You know folks I think we need to let Jush make his own decisions on what training he wants and ware he wants to go. Some of you may have been to lions worls and some of you may not have been there. It is not fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb training center or where ever else to say stuff that you've heard about lions world. Especially if you haven't been there. I've been there and I also went to lcb. I think lions world is doing a fine job like I say they've been doing it since the forties and since then they've turned out many successful blind people who have good careers so. Like I say obviously they're doing something right. If they weren't they would have closed their doors a long time ago. So those of you who haven't been there and are just saying what you've heard? Stop it. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 03:48:47 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 21:48:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> References: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> Message-ID: You don't have to attend after the first week. I didn't go to them after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, the other one was your "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The turning over of meds must have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended a year or so after I did. That's when they got a new administrator. Ramona was crazy! They do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked the one I had. I just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille class. I hated the dorm rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so hot in the rooms, I couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the only places with air conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and the breizway. I think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in my list of improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in the salarium! I bet it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Anmol, > When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy in policy and people's > experiences has to do with the leadership there. > Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over meds to a nurse. You said its > optional. > Some centers have a rule where you have to be cleared by an O&M staff > person. Is this > the case at LWSB before you can go off campus? > > Also acording to the LWSB website, they still have a psychologist and > psychiatrist on staff. > Is that the case? If so, do you have to take the counseling class, assertive > training I think they call it? > > Thanks. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as such. > There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones run by NFB. O! > and I forgot to address one more point that of taking one's meds. The > trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse but are not required > to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally the trainy's > responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you to remind you to take > your medison. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >> are 5 or more years past >> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old >> there. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> wrote: >> > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the >> 40's anymore. Or if it >> > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this >> internet thingie? >> > LOL! just kidding! >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> > >> > >> >>I don't know, but they've done this since their >> founding in 1946. >> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> wrote: >> >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make >> everyone relinquish >> >>> medications? >> >>> That is dumbing really independent blind >> adults down to babys in my >> >>> opinion! >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >> >>> >> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's >> always warm in the dorm rooms. >> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to >> relinquish their meds. The >> >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) >> is out of tune. I hate old, >> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking >> the rules. He smoked in his >> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on >> whether I wanted a room mate or >> >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was >> always bragging about how >> >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for >> an evaluation, in 2007. I >> >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've >> received the mobility skills >> >>>> in school, and received my endependent >> living skills at LWSB. I only >> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an >> evaluation lasts. I made some >> >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my >> room mate,) were nothing but >> >>>> trouble. There are other places where he >> can get training without >> >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many >> of the trainees, allowed >> >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm >> allergic to dogs. >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >> wrote: >> >>>>> Joshua, >> >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs >> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >> >>>>> told >> >>>>> him to think through it, think about >> the rules and if he'd like to >> >>>>> abide >> >>>>> by >> >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't >> work. >> >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; >> now he wants to get a >> >>>>> certification; >> >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay >> confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend >> and did you go to another training >> >>>>> center afterward? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> But do they really have a lights out >> rule? Do they really have a >> >>>>> curphew >> >>>>> where you got to be in your room? >> >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. >> They don't have apartments. >> >>>>> Someone >> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the >> food was not too good; it was >> >>>>> mostly >> >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if >> a blind person cannot identify >> >>>>> their >> >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people >> cannot read braille or print and >> >>>>> cannot >> >>>>> know what meds they have in what >> bottle! >> >>>>> But some blind people have the skills >> already to take their meds. >> >>>>> However, is this an individual >> thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >> >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who >> cannot take it independently yet? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On their website it says you have to >> agree to relocate after the >> >>>>> program. >> >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons >> you stated. If you don't have >> >>>>> friends >> >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why >> move there? >> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you >> again. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ashley >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 >> PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>>> >> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended >> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was >> talking about. They have "lights >> >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I >> know, because I was there. They >> >>>>> thought that every blind person needed >> counseling. They called it >> >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole >> thing is a scam! They ship you off >> >>>>> to another state once you've >> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You >> go through the IRS program, (for >> >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, >> (since there are no jobs for you in >> >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to >> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. >> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm >> going to a state where I don't >> >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's >> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of >> training, but stay away from LWSB! >> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy >> wrote: >> >>>>>> Hi >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I >> will be going to lions world within >> >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be >> going for desktop support >> >>>>>> technician >> >>>>>> and then microsoft certified >> systems engineer program. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Josh >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 03:54:31 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:54:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4002BAC42B354A35A0DB7F500105AE0C@hometwxakonvzn> I think that's a good think for those who have psyke issues. What's their websight? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > You don't have to attend after the first week. I didn't go to them > after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, the other one was your > "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The turning over of meds must > have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended a year or so after I > did. That's when they got a new administrator. Ramona was crazy! They > do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked the one I had. I > just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille class. I hated the dorm > rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so hot in the rooms, I > couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the only places with air > conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and the breizway. I > think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in my list of > improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in the salarium! I bet > it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Anmol, >> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy in policy and people's >> experiences has to do with the leadership there. >> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over meds to a nurse. You said >> its >> optional. >> Some centers have a rule where you have to be cleared by an O&M staff >> person. Is this >> the case at LWSB before you can go off campus? >> >> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still have a psychologist and >> psychiatrist on staff. >> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take the counseling class, >> assertive >> training I think they call it? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as >> such. >> There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones run by NFB. >> O! >> and I forgot to address one more point that of taking one's meds. The >> trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse but are not >> required >> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally the trainy's >> responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you to remind you to >> take >> your medison. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >>> are 5 or more years past >>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old >>> there. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>> wrote: >>> > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the >>> 40's anymore. Or if it >>> > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this >>> internet thingie? >>> > LOL! just kidding! >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> > >>> > >>> >>I don't know, but they've done this since their >>> founding in 1946. >>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>> >> >>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>> wrote: >>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make >>> everyone relinquish >>> >>> medications? >>> >>> That is dumbing really independent blind >>> adults down to babys in my >>> >>> opinion! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list" >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's >>> always warm in the dorm rooms. >>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to >>> relinquish their meds. The >>> >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) >>> is out of tune. I hate old, >>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking >>> the rules. He smoked in his >>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on >>> whether I wanted a room mate or >>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was >>> always bragging about how >>> >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for >>> an evaluation, in 2007. I >>> >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've >>> received the mobility skills >>> >>>> in school, and received my endependent >>> living skills at LWSB. I only >>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an >>> evaluation lasts. I made some >>> >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my >>> room mate,) were nothing but >>> >>>> trouble. There are other places where he >>> can get training without >>> >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many >>> of the trainees, allowed >>> >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm >>> allergic to dogs. >>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>> Joshua, >>> >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs >>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>> >>>>> told >>> >>>>> him to think through it, think about >>> the rules and if he'd like to >>> >>>>> abide >>> >>>>> by >>> >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't >>> work. >>> >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; >>> now he wants to get a >>> >>>>> certification; >>> >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay >>> confined at LWSB to get that training. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend >>> and did you go to another training >>> >>>>> center afterward? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> But do they really have a lights out >>> rule? Do they really have a >>> >>>>> curphew >>> >>>>> where you got to be in your room? >>> >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. >>> They don't have apartments. >>> >>>>> Someone >>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the >>> food was not too good; it was >>> >>>>> mostly >>> >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if >>> a blind person cannot identify >>> >>>>> their >>> >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people >>> cannot read braille or print and >>> >>>>> cannot >>> >>>>> know what meds they have in what >>> bottle! >>> >>>>> But some blind people have the skills >>> already to take their meds. >>> >>>>> However, is this an individual >>> thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>> >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who >>> cannot take it independently yet? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On their website it says you have to >>> agree to relocate after the >>> >>>>> program. >>> >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons >>> you stated. If you don't have >>> >>>>> friends >>> >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why >>> move there? >>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you >>> again. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Ashley >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 >>> PM >>> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list >>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended >>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>> >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was >>> talking about. They have "lights >>> >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I >>> know, because I was there. They >>> >>>>> thought that every blind person needed >>> counseling. They called it >>> >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole >>> thing is a scam! They ship you off >>> >>>>> to another state once you've >>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You >>> go through the IRS program, (for >>> >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, >>> (since there are no jobs for you in >>> >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to >>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>> >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. >>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>> >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm >>> going to a state where I don't >>> >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's >>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of >>> training, but stay away from LWSB! >>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>> Hi >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I >>> will be going to lions world within >>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be >>> going for desktop support >>> >>>>>> technician >>> >>>>>> and then microsoft certified >>> systems engineer program. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Josh >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get your account info for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 04:00:56 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:00:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <4002BAC42B354A35A0DB7F500105AE0C@hometwxakonvzn> References: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> <4002BAC42B354A35A0DB7F500105AE0C@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: RJ, the website is www.lwsb.org. Yes it’s a good thing if you need psychological help; many blind people get depressed from going blind. But its not for everyone; some are adjusted and are just fine psychologically and that's why I asked what role they play and if counseling is optional. -----Original Message----- From: RJ Sandefur Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world I think that's a good think for those who have psyke issues. What's their websight? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > You don't have to attend after the first week. I didn't go to them > after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, the other one was your > "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The turning over of meds must > have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended a year or so after I > did. That's when they got a new administrator. Ramona was crazy! They > do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked the one I had. I > just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille class. I hated the dorm > rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so hot in the rooms, I > couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the only places with air > conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and the breizway. I > think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in my list of > improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in the salarium! I bet > it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Anmol, >> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy in policy and people's >> experiences has to do with the leadership there. >> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over meds to a nurse. You said >> its >> optional. >> Some centers have a rule where you have to be cleared by an O&M staff >> person. Is this >> the case at LWSB before you can go off campus? >> >> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still have a psychologist and >> psychiatrist on staff. >> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take the counseling class, >> assertive >> training I think they call it? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as >> such. >> There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones run by NFB. >> O! >> and I forgot to address one more point that of taking one's meds. The >> trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse but are not >> required >> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally the trainy's >> responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you to remind you to >> take >> your medison. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >> breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester >> wrote: >> >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >>> are 5 or more years past >>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old >>> there. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>> wrote: >>> > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the >>> 40's anymore. Or if it >>> > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this >>> internet thingie? >>> > LOL! just kidding! >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> > >>> > >>> >>I don't know, but they've done this since their >>> founding in 1946. >>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>> >> >>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>> wrote: >>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make >>> everyone relinquish >>> >>> medications? >>> >>> That is dumbing really independent blind >>> adults down to babys in my >>> >>> opinion! >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list" >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's >>> always warm in the dorm rooms. >>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to >>> relinquish their meds. The >>> >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) >>> is out of tune. I hate old, >>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking >>> the rules. He smoked in his >>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on >>> whether I wanted a room mate or >>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was >>> always bragging about how >>> >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for >>> an evaluation, in 2007. I >>> >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've >>> received the mobility skills >>> >>>> in school, and received my endependent >>> living skills at LWSB. I only >>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an >>> evaluation lasts. I made some >>> >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my >>> room mate,) were nothing but >>> >>>> trouble. There are other places where he >>> can get training without >>> >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many >>> of the trainees, allowed >>> >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm >>> allergic to dogs. >>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>> Joshua, >>> >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs >>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>> >>>>> told >>> >>>>> him to think through it, think about >>> the rules and if he'd like to >>> >>>>> abide >>> >>>>> by >>> >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't >>> work. >>> >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; >>> now he wants to get a >>> >>>>> certification; >>> >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay >>> confined at LWSB to get that training. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend >>> and did you go to another training >>> >>>>> center afterward? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> But do they really have a lights out >>> rule? Do they really have a >>> >>>>> curphew >>> >>>>> where you got to be in your room? >>> >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. >>> They don't have apartments. >>> >>>>> Someone >>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the >>> food was not too good; it was >>> >>>>> mostly >>> >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if >>> a blind person cannot identify >>> >>>>> their >>> >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people >>> cannot read braille or print and >>> >>>>> cannot >>> >>>>> know what meds they have in what >>> bottle! >>> >>>>> But some blind people have the skills >>> already to take their meds. >>> >>>>> However, is this an individual >>> thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>> >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who >>> cannot take it independently yet? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On their website it says you have to >>> agree to relocate after the >>> >>>>> program. >>> >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons >>> you stated. If you don't have >>> >>>>> friends >>> >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why >>> move there? >>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you >>> again. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Ashley >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 >>> PM >>> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list >>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended >>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>> >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was >>> talking about. They have "lights >>> >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I >>> know, because I was there. They >>> >>>>> thought that every blind person needed >>> counseling. They called it >>> >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole >>> thing is a scam! They ship you off >>> >>>>> to another state once you've >>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You >>> go through the IRS program, (for >>> >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, >>> (since there are no jobs for you in >>> >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to >>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>> >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. >>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>> >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm >>> going to a state where I don't >>> >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's >>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of >>> training, but stay away from LWSB! >>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>> Hi >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I >>> will be going to lions world within >>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be >>> going for desktop support >>> >>>>>> technician >>> >>>>>> and then microsoft certified >>> systems engineer program. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Josh >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get your account info for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 04:05:33 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:05:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <4002BAC42B354A35A0DB7F500105AE0C@hometwxakonvzn> References: <114468.59363.qm@web162020.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1DFB9D3832E843A8B3F0E28664587DD5@OwnerPC> <4002BAC42B354A35A0DB7F500105AE0C@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: Their Website is, www.lwsb.org. Harold Williams, and Jerry Leach are the counselors. They're great people, and I appreciate them. They're more than just counselors, if you have a problem, they're there to help. If something's going wrong, (the man smoking in his room, while I'm in there,) (for example,) the counselors are the ones to reprimand the offender. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: > I think that's a good think for those who have psyke issues. What's their > websight? RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >> You don't have to attend after the first week. I didn't go to them >> after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, the other one was your >> "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The turning over of meds must >> have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended a year or so after I >> did. That's when they got a new administrator. Ramona was crazy! They >> do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked the one I had. I >> just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille class. I hated the dorm >> rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so hot in the rooms, I >> couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the only places with air >> conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and the breizway. I >> think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in my list of >> improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in the salarium! I bet >> it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Anmol, >>> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy in policy and people's >>> experiences has to do with the leadership there. >>> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over meds to a nurse. You said >>> its >>> optional. >>> Some centers have a rule where you have to be cleared by an O&M staff >>> person. Is this >>> the case at LWSB before you can go off campus? >>> >>> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still have a psychologist and >>> psychiatrist on staff. >>> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take the counseling class, >>> assertive >>> training I think they call it? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are adults and are treated as >>> such. >>> There is good and bad to every training centers even the ones run by NFB. >>> >>> O! >>> and I forgot to address one more point that of taking one's meds. The >>> trainies have the option to give their meds to a nerse but are not >>> required >>> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is totally the trainy's >>> responsibility. The nerse will not come and find you to remind you to >>> take >>> your medison. >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester >>> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >>>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >>>> are 5 or more years past >>>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the only 18-year-old >>>> there. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>>> wrote: >>>> > They should get with the 21st century this isn't the >>>> 40's anymore. Or if it >>>> > is why am I born and what am I doing out hear on this >>>> internet thingie? >>>> > LOL! just kidding! >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>>> list" >>>> > >>>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>I don't know, but they've done this since their >>>> founding in 1946. >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >> >>>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make >>>> everyone relinquish >>>> >>> medications? >>>> >>> That is dumbing really independent blind >>>> adults down to babys in my >>>> >>> opinion! >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing list" >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's >>>> always warm in the dorm rooms. >>>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to >>>> relinquish their meds. The >>>> >>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) >>>> is out of tune. I hate old, >>>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking >>>> the rules. He smoked in his >>>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on >>>> whether I wanted a room mate or >>>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was >>>> always bragging about how >>>> >>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for >>>> an evaluation, in 2007. I >>>> >>>> haven't attended a training center. I've >>>> received the mobility skills >>>> >>>> in school, and received my endependent >>>> living skills at LWSB. I only >>>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an >>>> evaluation lasts. I made some >>>> >>>> friends, but some of them, (including my >>>> room mate,) were nothing but >>>> >>>> trouble. There are other places where he >>>> can get training without >>>> >>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many >>>> of the trainees, allowed >>>> >>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm >>>> allergic to dogs. >>>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Joshua, >>>> >>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs >>>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>>> >>>>> told >>>> >>>>> him to think through it, think about >>>> the rules and if he'd like to >>>> >>>>> abide >>>> >>>>> by >>>> >>>>> such restrictions. It didn't >>>> work. >>>> >>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; >>>> now he wants to get a >>>> >>>>> certification; >>>> >>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay >>>> confined at LWSB to get that training. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend >>>> and did you go to another training >>>> >>>>> center afterward? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> But do they really have a lights out >>>> rule? Do they really have a >>>> >>>>> curphew >>>> >>>>> where you got to be in your room? >>>> >>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. >>>> They don't have apartments. >>>> >>>>> Someone >>>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the >>>> food was not too good; it was >>>> >>>>> mostly >>>> >>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if >>>> a blind person cannot identify >>>> >>>>> their >>>> >>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people >>>> cannot read braille or print and >>>> >>>>> cannot >>>> >>>>> know what meds they have in what >>>> bottle! >>>> >>>>> But some blind people have the skills >>>> already to take their meds. >>>> >>>>> However, is this an individual >>>> thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>> >>>>> their meds, or just the ones who >>>> cannot take it independently yet? >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On their website it says you have to >>>> agree to relocate after the >>>> >>>>> program. >>>> >>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons >>>> you stated. If you don't have >>>> >>>>> friends >>>> >>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why >>>> move there? >>>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you >>>> again. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 >>>> PM >>>> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind >>>> Students mailing list >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended >>>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>> >>>>> those centers like the one Tara was >>>> talking about. They have "lights >>>> >>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I >>>> know, because I was there. They >>>> >>>>> thought that every blind person needed >>>> counseling. They called it >>>> >>>>> assertiveness training. The whole >>>> thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>> >>>>> to another state once you've >>>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You >>>> go through the IRS program, (for >>>> >>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, >>>> (since there are no jobs for you in >>>> >>>>> that field, they'll ship you to >>>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>> >>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. >>>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>> >>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm >>>> going to a state where I don't >>>> >>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's >>>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of >>>> training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I >>>> will be going to lions world within >>>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be >>>> going for desktop support >>>> >>>>>> technician >>>> >>>>>> and then microsoft certified >>>> systems engineer program. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>> options or get your account info for >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>> options or get your account info for >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>>> options or get your account info for >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>>> or get your account info for >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>>> get your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>>> your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 04:12:24 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:12:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <9B7A975C3F06414493ED6E2A508424E0@OwnerPC> Josh, I thought about the ATI program too; I like technology and wouldn't mind teaching it to others. But they shouldn't make you relocate after training. Try to get the trainee a job in his/her own community! At least I don't think that should be a requirement to attend the program. Its refreshing to see that the meds policy changed in 2008 when Anmol attended; that is good; adults should be able to take their own meds. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world LWSB is good for some things, but they could make some improvements. I would've gone to the Assistive Technology program, but they would've shipped me off to Florida. What they need to do, is have a survey. In this survey, they should ask the following questions. #1. Where do you live? and #2. Are there any jobs in your community, that a blind person can do? That way, the trainee can be trained in a profession that they can work in, and stay in their community. That's the point! Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Dave, > Wow, that is some tone. I was asking questions. > It was Joshua Lester who criticized LWSB. > I agree people need to make their own decissions regarding training. > But I'd also like to let Josh and consumers know what really happens at > centers. > That is what informed choice is about. > BTW I have not been to any private center as an adult; I did attend our > state center in Richmond though. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:55 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > You know folks I think we need to let Jush make his own decisions on > what training he wants and ware he wants to go. Some of you may have > been to lions worls and some of you may not have been there. It is not > fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb training center or where > ever else to say stuff that you've heard about lions world. Especially > if you haven't been there. I've been there and I also went to lcb. I > think lions world is doing a fine job like I say they've been doing it > since the forties and since then they've turned out many successful > blind people who have good careers so. Like I say obviously they're > doing something right. If they weren't they would have closed their > doors a long time ago. So those of you who haven't been there and are > just saying what you've heard? Stop it. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 04:25:10 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:25:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <9B7A975C3F06414493ED6E2A508424E0@OwnerPC> References: <20110212005545.21177.24991@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> <9B7A975C3F06414493ED6E2A508424E0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Why don't you ask the new administrator to do exactly what we've suggested. Maybe, you and I can do the ATI program together. I just don't want to have the same problem, (looking for a church.) Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Josh, > I thought about the ATI program too; I like technology and wouldn't mind > teaching it to others. > But they shouldn't make you relocate after training. Try to get the trainee > a job in his/her own community! > At least I don't think that should be a requirement to attend the program. > Its refreshing to see that the meds policy changed in 2008 when Anmol > attended; that is good; adults should be able to take their own meds. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > LWSB is good for some things, but they could make some improvements. I > would've gone to the Assistive Technology program, but they would've > shipped me off to Florida. What they need to do, is have a survey. In > this survey, they should ask the following questions. #1. Where do you > live? and #2. Are there any jobs in your community, that a blind > person can do? That way, the trainee can be trained in a profession > that they can work in, and stay in their community. That's the point! > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Dave, >> Wow, that is some tone. I was asking questions. >> It was Joshua Lester who criticized LWSB. >> I agree people need to make their own decissions regarding training. >> But I'd also like to let Josh and consumers know what really happens at >> centers. >> That is what informed choice is about. >> BTW I have not been to any private center as an adult; I did attend our >> state center in Richmond though. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:55 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> You know folks I think we need to let Jush make his own decisions on >> what training he wants and ware he wants to go. Some of you may have >> been to lions worls and some of you may not have been there. It is not >> fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb training center or where >> ever else to say stuff that you've heard about lions world. Especially >> if you haven't been there. I've been there and I also went to lcb. I >> think lions world is doing a fine job like I say they've been doing it >> since the forties and since then they've turned out many successful >> blind people who have good careers so. Like I say obviously they're >> doing something right. If they weren't they would have closed their >> doors a long time ago. So those of you who haven't been there and are >> just saying what you've heard? Stop it. >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 12 04:27:06 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:27:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in the NFB, started our own Centers. Dave At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to >babys in my opinion! >----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" > >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >>lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>Joshua, >>>I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told >>>him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide by >>>such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a certification; >>>so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>> >>>Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>>center afterward? >>> >>>But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew >>>where you got to be in your room? >>>I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone >>>told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >>>fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify their >>>meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and cannot >>>know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>> >>>On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. >>>That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have friends >>>or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>> >>>Ashley >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Joshua Lester >>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>>In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>>thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>>example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>Hi >>>> >>>>I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>>the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>>>and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>> >>>>Josh From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 04:28:12 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:28:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <040BF7C0741D4324801D42BC96B6B8F6@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <956833.66658.qm@web162012.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Yes you can choose to live off campus if you wish. I went there to stay there on the weekends because I needed a place to stay on the weekends but I have had many friends who have attended LWSB for training. So thats how I know alot of this information. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 9:32 PM > Anmol, > I'm confused. Are you saying you can live off campus in an > apartment if you choose to? > If you went there, how long and which program did you do? > Ashley > > > -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > Not anymore. They have a contract with a apartment complex > off campus and even before you could live off campus. I had > friends who lived off campus. > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me > sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but > it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Dave.  I lost my cookie at the > disco. > wrote: > > > From: Dave.  I lost my cookie at the disco. > > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:47 PM > > You can't.  You have to live on > > campus out there. > > > > -- Email services provided by the System Access > Mobile > > Network.  Visit www.serotek.com to learn more > about > > accessibility anywhere. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! > Games. > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 04:30:54 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:30:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new state president, and we'll raise money for this. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: > Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they > must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in > the NFB, started our own Centers. > > Dave > > At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >>Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >>medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to >>babys in my opinion! >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> >>>lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>>Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>>piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>>out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>>dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>>not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>>much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>>haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>>in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>>stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>>friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>>trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>>going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>>their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>>Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>Joshua, >>>>I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told >>>>him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >>>> by >>>>such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>>Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>>> certification; >>>>so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>>> >>>>Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>>>center afterward? >>>> >>>>But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew >>>>where you got to be in your room? >>>>I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone >>>>told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >>>>fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>>As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>>> their >>>>meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>>> cannot >>>>know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>>But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>>However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>>their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>>> >>>>On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. >>>>That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>>> friends >>>>or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>>Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>>> >>>>Ashley >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Joshua Lester >>>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>>In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>>those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>>out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>>>thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>>assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>>to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>>Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>>>example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>>that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>>somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>>of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>>know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>>Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>>Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>>On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>Hi >>>>> >>>>>I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>>>the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>>>>and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>>> >>>>>Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 04:46:28 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:46:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com><000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> Do you have any idea what this would involv? RJs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, > (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new > state president, and we'll raise money for this. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: >> Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they >> must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in >> the NFB, started our own Centers. >> >> Dave >> >> At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >>>Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >>>medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to >>>babys in my opinion! >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> >>>>lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>>>Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>>>piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>>>out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>>>dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>>>not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>>>much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>>>haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>>>in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>>>stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>>>friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>>>trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>>>going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>>>their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>>>Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>>On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>Joshua, >>>>>I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>>>>told >>>>>him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to >>>>>abide >>>>> by >>>>>such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>>>Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>>>> certification; >>>>>so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>>>> >>>>>Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>>>>center afterward? >>>>> >>>>>But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>>>>curphew >>>>>where you got to be in your room? >>>>>I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>>>>Someone >>>>>told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >>>>>mostly >>>>>fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>>>As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>>>> their >>>>>meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>>>> cannot >>>>>know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>>>But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>>>However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>>>their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>>>> >>>>>On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>>>>program. >>>>>That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>>>> friends >>>>>or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>>>Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>>>> >>>>>Ashley >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Joshua Lester >>>>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>>In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>>>those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>>>out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>>>>thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>>>assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>>>to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>>>Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>>>>example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>>>that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>>>somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>>>of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>>>know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>>>Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>>>Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>>On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>Hi >>>>>> >>>>>>I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>>>>the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >>>>>>technician >>>>>>and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>>>> >>>>>>Josh >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 12 04:48:17 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:48:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Joshua: It would be nice to have other NFb Centers, but I think it is vastly more difficult and expensive then you think. Plus Arkansas is pretty close to Louisiana -- if we were going to start another Center I think it would be in an area that is geographically more distant from an existing Center. Dave At 10:30 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, >(the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new >state president, and we'll raise money for this. >Blessings, Joshua > >On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: > > Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they > > must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in > > the NFB, started our own Centers. > > > > Dave > > > > At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: > >>Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish > >>medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to > >>babys in my opinion! > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" > >> > >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >> > >> > >>>lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. > >>>Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The > >>>piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, > >>>out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his > >>>dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or > >>>not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how > >>>much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I > >>>haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills > >>>in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only > >>>stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some > >>>friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but > >>>trouble. There are other places where he can get training without > >>>going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed > >>>their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. > >>>Blessings, Joshua > >>> > >>>On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >>>>Joshua, > >>>>I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I told > >>>>him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide > >>>> by > >>>>such restrictions. It didn't work. > >>>>Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a > >>>> certification; > >>>>so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. > >>>> > >>>>Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training > >>>>center afterward? > >>>> > >>>>But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a curphew > >>>>where you got to be in your room? > >>>>I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. Someone > >>>>told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly > >>>>fried food which is very unhealthy. > >>>>As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify > >>>> their > >>>>meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and > >>>> cannot > >>>>know what meds they have in what bottle! > >>>>But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. > >>>>However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish > >>>>their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? > >>>> > >>>>On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the program. > >>>>That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have > >>>> friends > >>>>or family down in say Georga, then why move there? > >>>>Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. > >>>> > >>>>Ashley > >>>> > >>>>-----Original Message----- > >>>>From: Joshua Lester > >>>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM > >>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>> > >>>>In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of > >>>>those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights > >>>>out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They > >>>>thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it > >>>>assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off > >>>>to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is > >>>>Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for > >>>>example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in > >>>>that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > >>>>somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All > >>>>of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't > >>>>know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > >>>>Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! > >>>>Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>>On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > >>>>>Hi > >>>>> > >>>>>I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within > >>>>>the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician > >>>>>and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. > >>>>> > >>>>>Josh From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 04:54:29 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:54:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <355386.82584.qm@web162009.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> They don't make you go away somewhere else is just that there may not be a job opportunity where you live. But if you can find a job in Arkansas then by all means you can live in Arkansas but it will be a challenge find a AT instructor position in Arkansas. As far as the IRS the agreement even before you are excepted is that you are willing to relocate to whereever there is a position. There is limit to how many positions are available in your local community. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:25 PM > Why don't you ask the new > administrator to do exactly what we've > suggested. Maybe, you and I can do the ATI program > together. I just > don't want to have the same problem, (looking for a > church.) > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > > Josh, > > I thought about the ATI program too; I like technology > and wouldn't mind > > teaching it to others. > > But they shouldn't make you relocate after > training.  Try to get the trainee > > a job in his/her own community! > > At least I don't think that should be a requirement to > attend the program. > > Its refreshing to see that the meds policy changed in > 2008 when Anmol > > attended; that is good; adults should be able to take > their own meds. > > > > Ashley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joshua Lester > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:38 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > > > LWSB is good for some things, but they could make some > improvements. I > > would've gone to the Assistive Technology program, but > they would've > > shipped me off to Florida. What they need to do, is > have a survey. In > > this survey, they should ask the following questions. > #1. Where do you > > live? and #2. Are there any jobs in your community, > that a blind > > person can do? That way, the trainee can be trained in > a profession > > that they can work in, and stay in their community. > That's the point! > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > >> Dave, > >> Wow, that is some tone.  I was asking > questions. > >> It was Joshua Lester who criticized LWSB. > >> I agree people need to make their own decissions > regarding training. > >> But I'd also like to let Josh and consumers know > what really happens at > >> centers. > >> That is what informed choice is about. > >> BTW I have not been to any private center as an > adult; I did attend our > >> state center in Richmond though. > >> Ashley > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. > >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:55 PM > >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >> > >> You know folks I think we need to let Jush make > his own decisions on > >> what training he wants and ware he wants to > go.  Some of you may have > >> been to lions worls and some of you may not have > been there.  It is not > >> fair for those of you who have gone to an nfb > training center or where > >> ever else to say stuff that you've heard about > lions world.  Especially > >> if you haven't been there.  I've been there > and I also went to lcb.  I > >> think lions world is doing a fine job like I say > they've been doing it > >> since the forties and since then they've turned > out many successful > >> blind people who have good careers so.  Like > I say obviously they're > >> doing something right.  If they weren't they > would have closed their > >> doors a long time ago.  So those of you who > haven't been there and are > >> just saying what you've heard?  Stop it. > >> > >> -- > >> Email services provided by the System Access > Mobile Network.  Visit > >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility > anywhere. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 04:54:50 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:54:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: It takes alot of time, and money, but it will be worth it. I'm not going to Rustin, LA, because I don't know of any Apostolic Pentecostal churches in that area. How far is Alexandria from there? Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Do you have any idea what this would involv? RJs > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >> Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, >> (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new >> state president, and we'll raise money for this. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: >>> Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they >>> must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in >>> the NFB, started our own Centers. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >>>>Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >>>>medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to >>>>babys in my opinion! >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> >>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> >>>>>lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>>>>Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>>>>piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>>>>out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>>>>dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>>>>not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>>>>much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>>>>haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>>>>in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>>>>stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>>>>friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>>>>trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>>>>going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>>>>their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>>>>Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>>On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>>Joshua, >>>>>>I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>>>>>told >>>>>>him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to >>>>>>abide >>>>>> by >>>>>>such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>>>>Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>>>>> certification; >>>>>>so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>>>>> >>>>>>Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>>>>>center afterward? >>>>>> >>>>>>But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>>>>>curphew >>>>>>where you got to be in your room? >>>>>>I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>>>>>Someone >>>>>>told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >>>>>>mostly >>>>>>fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>>>>As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>>>>> their >>>>>>meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>>>>> cannot >>>>>>know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>>>>But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>>>>However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>>>>their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>>>>> >>>>>>On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>>>>>program. >>>>>>That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>>>>> friends >>>>>>or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>>>>Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>> >>>>>>In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>>>>those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>>>>out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>>>>>thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>>>>assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>>>>to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>>>>Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>>>>>example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>>>>that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>>>>somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>>>>of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>>>>know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>>>>Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>>>>Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>>On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>Hi >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>>>>>the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >>>>>>>technician >>>>>>>and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Josh >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 04:58:02 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:58:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Actually Jerry Leach is not there any more. He is actually doing his PH.D at the same university as me (University of Arkansas). Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:05 PM > Their Website is, www.lwsb.org. > Harold Williams, and Jerry Leach are > the counselors. They're great people, and I appreciate > them. They're > more than just counselors, if you have a problem, they're > there to > help. If something's going wrong, (the man smoking in his > room, while > I'm in there,) (for example,) the counselors are the ones > to reprimand > the offender. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur > wrote: > > I think that's a good think for those who have psyke > issues. What's their > > websight? RJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > > > > >> You don't have to attend after the first week. I > didn't go to them > >> after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, > the other one was your > >> "Assertiveness Training"  counselor. The > turning over of meds must > >> have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended > a year or so after I > >> did. That's when they got a new administrator. > Ramona was crazy! They > >> do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked > the one I had. I > >> just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille > class. I hated the dorm > >> rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so > hot in the rooms, I > >> couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the > only places with air > >> conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and > the breizway. I > >> think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in > my list of > >> improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in > the salarium! I bet > >> it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > >>> Anmol, > >>> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy > in policy and people's > >>> experiences has to do with the leadership > there. > >>> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over > meds to a nurse.  You said > >>> its > >>> optional. > >>> Some centers have a rule where you have to be > cleared by an O&M staff > >>> person. Is this > >>> the case at LWSB before you can go off > campus? > >>> > >>> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still > have a psychologist and > >>> psychiatrist on staff. > >>> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take > the counseling class, > >>> assertive > >>> training I think they call it? > >>> > >>> Thanks. > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Anmol Bhatia > >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>> > >>> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are > adults and are treated as > >>> such. > >>> There is good and bad to every training > centers even the ones run by NFB. > >>> > >>> O! > >>> and I forgot to address one more point that of > taking one's meds. The > >>> trainies have the option to give their meds to > a nerse but are not > >>> required > >>> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is > totally the trainy's > >>> responsibility. The nerse will not come and > find you to remind you to > >>> take > >>> your medison. > >>> > >>> Anmol > >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they > never make me sad. Perhaps > >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; > but it is vague, like a > >>> breeze > >>> among flowers. > >>> Hellen Keller > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > >>>> > >>>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM > >>>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees > >>>> are 5 or more years past > >>>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the > only 18-year-old > >>>> there. > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > They should get with the 21st century > this isn't the > >>>> 40's anymore.  Or if it > >>>> > is why am I born and what am I doing > out hear on this > >>>> internet thingie? > >>>> > LOL! just kidding! > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >>>> list" > >>>> > > >>>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 > PM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >>I don't know, but they've done > this since their > >>>> founding in 1946. > >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> >> > >>>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a > curfew and make > >>>> everyone relinquish > >>>> >>> medications? > >>>> >>> That is dumbing really > independent blind > >>>> adults down to babys in my > >>>> >>> opinion! > >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" > >>>> >>> To: "National Association of > Blind Students > >>>> mailing list" > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, > 2011 4:36 PM > >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions > world > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> lolololol! The food is > horible! It's > >>>> always warm in the dorm rooms. > >>>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. > Everyone has to > >>>> relinquish their meds. The > >>>> >>>> piano in the salarium, > (I'm a musician,) > >>>> is out of tune. I hate old, > >>>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! > Someone kept breaking > >>>> the rules. He smoked in his > >>>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have > a choice on > >>>> whether I wanted a room mate or > >>>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand > him, because he was > >>>> always bragging about how > >>>> >>>> much alcohol he could > consume. I went for > >>>> an evaluation, in 2007. I > >>>> >>>> haven't attended a > training center. I've > >>>> received the mobility skills > >>>> >>>> in school, and received > my endependent > >>>> living skills at LWSB. I only > >>>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw > long an > >>>> evaluation lasts. I made some > >>>> >>>> friends, but some of > them, (including my > >>>> room mate,) were nothing but > >>>> >>>> trouble. There are other > places where he > >>>> can get training without > >>>> >>>> going to that place. O > yeah, and too many > >>>> of the trainees, allowed > >>>> >>>> their guide dogs to run > loose. I'm > >>>> allergic to dogs. > >>>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >>>>> Joshua, > >>>> >>>>> I told Josh that on > the other nabs > >>>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I > >>>> >>>>> told > >>>> >>>>> him to think through > it, think about > >>>> the rules and if he'd like to > >>>> >>>>> abide > >>>> >>>>> by > >>>> >>>>> such > restrictions.  It didn't > >>>> work. > >>>> >>>>> Josh has already been > to a nfb center; > >>>> now he wants to get a > >>>> >>>>> certification; > >>>> >>>>> so perhaps he's > willing to stay > >>>> confined at LWSB to get that training. > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program > did you attend > >>>> and did you go to another training > >>>> >>>>> center afterward? > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> But do they really > have a lights out > >>>> rule?  Do they really have a > >>>> >>>>> curphew > >>>> >>>>> where you got to be > in your room? > >>>> >>>>> I know they got dorms > and roommates. > >>>> They don't have apartments. > >>>> >>>>> Someone > >>>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB > list that the > >>>> food was not too good; it was > >>>> >>>>> mostly > >>>> >>>>> fried food which is > very unhealthy. > >>>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can > understand that if > >>>> a blind person cannot identify > >>>> >>>>> their > >>>> >>>>> meds; I mean some > newly blind people > >>>> cannot read braille or print and > >>>> >>>>> cannot > >>>> >>>>> know what meds they > have in what > >>>> bottle! > >>>> >>>>> But some blind people > have the skills > >>>> already to take their meds. > >>>> >>>>> However, is this an > individual > >>>> thing?  Does everyone have to > relinquish > >>>> >>>>> their meds, or just > the ones who > >>>> cannot take it independently yet? > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> On their website it > says you have to > >>>> agree to relocate after the > >>>> >>>>> program. > >>>> >>>>> That sounds terrible > for the reasons > >>>> you stated. If you don't have > >>>> >>>>> friends > >>>> >>>>> or family down in say > Georga, then why > >>>> move there? > >>>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't > hear from you > >>>> again. > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> Ashley > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> -----Original > Message----- > >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, > February 11, 2011 4:04 > >>>> PM > >>>> >>>>> To: National > Association of Blind > >>>> Students mailing list > >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > lions world > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, > Arkansas? I attended > >>>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of > >>>> >>>>> those centers like > the one Tara was > >>>> talking about. They have "lights > >>>> >>>>> out," "nurses > controling meds," etc. I > >>>> know, because I was there. They > >>>> >>>>> thought that every > blind person needed > >>>> counseling. They called it > >>>> >>>>> assertiveness > training. The whole > >>>> thing is a scam! They ship you off > >>>> >>>>> to another state once > you've > >>>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is > >>>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because > that's mine.) You > >>>> go through the IRS program, (for > >>>> >>>>> example.) Once you've > graduated, > >>>> (since there are no jobs for you in > >>>> >>>>> that field, they'll > ship you to > >>>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > >>>> >>>>> somewhere else, > without your consent. > >>>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All > >>>> >>>>> of my family is here. > You think I'm > >>>> going to a state where I don't > >>>> >>>>> know anyone from > Adam? Nope! That's > >>>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > >>>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you > want that kind of > >>>> training, but stay away from LWSB! > >>>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh > Kennedy > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >>>>>> Hi > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> I want to let you > guys know that I > >>>> will be going to lions world within > >>>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so > months. I will be > >>>> going for desktop support > >>>> >>>>>> technician > >>>> >>>>>> and then > microsoft certified > >>>> systems engineer program. > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> Josh > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list > >>>> options or get your account info for > >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list > >>>> options or get your account info for > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list > >>>> options or get your account info for > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options > >>>> or get your account info for > >>>> >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or > >>>> get your account info for > >>>> >>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >>> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get > >>>> your account info for > >>>> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >>>> >> > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your > >>>> account info for > >>>> > nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your > >>>> account info for nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 05:05:09 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:05:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow! Tell him I said hello! I'd like for him to come to the state convention, this year. Will you be there? If you haven't already, join the Nfb-arkansas list. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Actually Jerry Leach is not there any more. He is actually doing his PH.D at > the same university as me (University of Arkansas). > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:05 PM >> Their Website is, www.lwsb.org. >> Harold Williams, and Jerry Leach are >> the counselors. They're great people, and I appreciate >> them. They're >> more than just counselors, if you have a problem, they're >> there to >> help. If something's going wrong, (the man smoking in his >> room, while >> I'm in there,) (for example,) the counselors are the ones >> to reprimand >> the offender. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur >> wrote: >> > I think that's a good think for those who have psyke >> issues. What's their >> > websight? RJ >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> > >> > >> >> You don't have to attend after the first week. I >> didn't go to them >> >> after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, >> the other one was your >> >> "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The >> turning over of meds must >> >> have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended >> a year or so after I >> >> did. That's when they got a new administrator. >> Ramona was crazy! They >> >> do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked >> the one I had. I >> >> just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille >> class. I hated the dorm >> >> rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so >> hot in the rooms, I >> >> couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the >> only places with air >> >> conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and >> the breizway. I >> >> think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in >> my list of >> >> improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in >> the salarium! I bet >> >> it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >> wrote: >> >>> Anmol, >> >>> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy >> in policy and people's >> >>> experiences has to do with the leadership >> there. >> >>> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over >> meds to a nurse. You said >> >>> its >> >>> optional. >> >>> Some centers have a rule where you have to be >> cleared by an O&M staff >> >>> person. Is this >> >>> the case at LWSB before you can go off >> campus? >> >>> >> >>> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still >> have a psychologist and >> >>> psychiatrist on staff. >> >>> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take >> the counseling class, >> >>> assertive >> >>> training I think they call it? >> >>> >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> Ashley >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>> >> >>> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are >> adults and are treated as >> >>> such. >> >>> There is good and bad to every training >> centers even the ones run by NFB. >> >>> >> >>> O! >> >>> and I forgot to address one more point that of >> taking one's meds. The >> >>> trainies have the option to give their meds to >> a nerse but are not >> >>> required >> >>> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is >> totally the trainy's >> >>> responsibility. The nerse will not come and >> find you to remind you to >> >>> take >> >>> your medison. >> >>> >> >>> Anmol >> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they >> never make me sad. Perhaps >> >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; >> but it is vague, like a >> >>> breeze >> >>> among flowers. >> >>> Hellen Keller >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list" >> >>>> >> >>>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >> >>>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >> >>>> are 5 or more years past >> >>>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the >> only 18-year-old >> >>>> there. >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> > They should get with the 21st century >> this isn't the >> >>>> 40's anymore. Or if it >> >>>> > is why am I born and what am I doing >> out hear on this >> >>>> internet thingie? >> >>>> > LOL! just kidding! >> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >>>> list" >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 >> PM >> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >>I don't know, but they've done >> this since their >> >>>> founding in 1946. >> >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a >> curfew and make >> >>>> everyone relinquish >> >>>> >>> medications? >> >>>> >>> That is dumbing really >> independent blind >> >>>> adults down to babys in my >> >>>> >>> opinion! >> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>>> >>> To: "National Association of >> Blind Students >> >>>> mailing list" >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, >> 2011 4:36 PM >> >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions >> world >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> lolololol! The food is >> horible! It's >> >>>> always warm in the dorm rooms. >> >>>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. >> Everyone has to >> >>>> relinquish their meds. The >> >>>> >>>> piano in the salarium, >> (I'm a musician,) >> >>>> is out of tune. I hate old, >> >>>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! >> Someone kept breaking >> >>>> the rules. He smoked in his >> >>>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have >> a choice on >> >>>> whether I wanted a room mate or >> >>>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand >> him, because he was >> >>>> always bragging about how >> >>>> >>>> much alcohol he could >> consume. I went for >> >>>> an evaluation, in 2007. I >> >>>> >>>> haven't attended a >> training center. I've >> >>>> received the mobility skills >> >>>> >>>> in school, and received >> my endependent >> >>>> living skills at LWSB. I only >> >>>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw >> long an >> >>>> evaluation lasts. I made some >> >>>> >>>> friends, but some of >> them, (including my >> >>>> room mate,) were nothing but >> >>>> >>>> trouble. There are other >> places where he >> >>>> can get training without >> >>>> >>>> going to that place. O >> yeah, and too many >> >>>> of the trainees, allowed >> >>>> >>>> their guide dogs to run >> loose. I'm >> >>>> allergic to dogs. >> >>>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >>>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, >> >>>> >>>>> I told Josh that on >> the other nabs >> >>>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >> >>>> >>>>> told >> >>>> >>>>> him to think through >> it, think about >> >>>> the rules and if he'd like to >> >>>> >>>>> abide >> >>>> >>>>> by >> >>>> >>>>> such >> restrictions. It didn't >> >>>> work. >> >>>> >>>>> Josh has already been >> to a nfb center; >> >>>> now he wants to get a >> >>>> >>>>> certification; >> >>>> >>>>> so perhaps he's >> willing to stay >> >>>> confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program >> did you attend >> >>>> and did you go to another training >> >>>> >>>>> center afterward? >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> But do they really >> have a lights out >> >>>> rule? Do they really have a >> >>>> >>>>> curphew >> >>>> >>>>> where you got to be >> in your room? >> >>>> >>>>> I know they got dorms >> and roommates. >> >>>> They don't have apartments. >> >>>> >>>>> Someone >> >>>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB >> list that the >> >>>> food was not too good; it was >> >>>> >>>>> mostly >> >>>> >>>>> fried food which is >> very unhealthy. >> >>>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can >> understand that if >> >>>> a blind person cannot identify >> >>>> >>>>> their >> >>>> >>>>> meds; I mean some >> newly blind people >> >>>> cannot read braille or print and >> >>>> >>>>> cannot >> >>>> >>>>> know what meds they >> have in what >> >>>> bottle! >> >>>> >>>>> But some blind people >> have the skills >> >>>> already to take their meds. >> >>>> >>>>> However, is this an >> individual >> >>>> thing? Does everyone have to >> relinquish >> >>>> >>>>> their meds, or just >> the ones who >> >>>> cannot take it independently yet? >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> On their website it >> says you have to >> >>>> agree to relocate after the >> >>>> >>>>> program. >> >>>> >>>>> That sounds terrible >> for the reasons >> >>>> you stated. If you don't have >> >>>> >>>>> friends >> >>>> >>>>> or family down in say >> Georga, then why >> >>>> move there? >> >>>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't >> hear from you >> >>>> again. >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> Ashley >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> -----Original >> Message----- >> >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, >> February 11, 2011 4:04 >> >>>> PM >> >>>> >>>>> To: National >> Association of Blind >> >>>> Students mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> lions world >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, >> Arkansas? I attended >> >>>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> >>>> >>>>> those centers like >> the one Tara was >> >>>> talking about. They have "lights >> >>>> >>>>> out," "nurses >> controling meds," etc. I >> >>>> know, because I was there. They >> >>>> >>>>> thought that every >> blind person needed >> >>>> counseling. They called it >> >>>> >>>>> assertiveness >> training. The whole >> >>>> thing is a scam! They ship you off >> >>>> >>>>> to another state once >> you've >> >>>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> >>>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because >> that's mine.) You >> >>>> go through the IRS program, (for >> >>>> >>>>> example.) Once you've >> graduated, >> >>>> (since there are no jobs for you in >> >>>> >>>>> that field, they'll >> ship you to >> >>>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> >>>> >>>>> somewhere else, >> without your consent. >> >>>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> >>>> >>>>> of my family is here. >> You think I'm >> >>>> going to a state where I don't >> >>>> >>>>> know anyone from >> Adam? Nope! That's >> >>>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> >>>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you >> want that kind of >> >>>> training, but stay away from LWSB! >> >>>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh >> Kennedy >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>>> Hi >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> I want to let you >> guys know that I >> >>>> will be going to lions world within >> >>>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so >> months. I will be >> >>>> going for desktop support >> >>>> >>>>>> technician >> >>>> >>>>>> and then >> microsoft certified >> >>>> systems engineer program. >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> Josh >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing >> list >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change >> your list options >> >>>> or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or >> >>>> get your account info for >> >>>> >>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get >> >>>> your account info for >> >>>> >> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your >> >>>> account info for >> >>>> > nabs-l: >> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your >> >>>> account info for nabs-l: >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat Feb 12 05:08:14 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 00:08:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <5329361F-5201-410A-B495-1036528B428C@mac.com> What about possibly doing something in NYC? On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:54 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > It takes alot of time, and money, but it will be worth it. I'm not > going to Rustin, LA, because I don't know of any Apostolic Pentecostal > churches in that area. How far is Alexandria from there? Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> Do you have any idea what this would involv? RJs >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> >>> Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, >>> (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new >>> state president, and we'll raise money for this. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>> Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they >>>> must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in >>>> the NFB, started our own Centers. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >>>>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >>>>> medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to >>>>> babys in my opinion! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>>>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>>>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>>>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>>>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>>>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>>>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>>>>> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>>>>> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>>>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>>>>> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>>>>> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>>>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>>>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>>> Joshua, >>>>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>>>>>> told >>>>>>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to >>>>>>> abide >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>>>>>> certification; >>>>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>>>>>> center afterward? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>>>>>> curphew >>>>>>> where you got to be in your room? >>>>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>>>>>> Someone >>>>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >>>>>>> mostly >>>>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>>>>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>>>>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>>>>>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>>>>>> program. >>>>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>>>>>> friends >>>>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>>>>>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>>>>>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>>>>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>>>>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>>>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>>>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>>>>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>>>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >>>>>>>> technician >>>>>>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 05:14:18 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:14:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <5329361F-5201-410A-B495-1036528B428C@mac.com> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> <5329361F-5201-410A-B495-1036528B428C@mac.com> Message-ID: Jorge, I'm in Arkansas, lol. Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > What about possibly doing something in NYC? > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:54 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> It takes alot of time, and money, but it will be worth it. I'm not >> going to Rustin, LA, because I don't know of any Apostolic Pentecostal >> churches in that area. How far is Alexandria from there? Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: >>> Do you have any idea what this would involv? RJs >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> >>>> Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, >>>> (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new >>>> state president, and we'll raise money for this. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they >>>>> must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in >>>>> the NFB, started our own Centers. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >>>>>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >>>>>> medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to >>>>>> babys in my opinion! >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >>>>>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>>>>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >>>>>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >>>>>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >>>>>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >>>>>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >>>>>>> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >>>>>>> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >>>>>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>>>>>> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >>>>>>> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>>>>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>>>>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Joshua, >>>>>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>>>>>>> told >>>>>>>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to >>>>>>>> abide >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>>>>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>>>>>>> certification; >>>>>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that >>>>>>>> training. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another >>>>>>>> training >>>>>>>> center afterward? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>>>>>>> curphew >>>>>>>> where you got to be in your room? >>>>>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>>>>>>> Someone >>>>>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >>>>>>>> mostly >>>>>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>>>>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot >>>>>>>> identify >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>>>>>>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>>>>>>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to >>>>>>>> relinquish >>>>>>>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>>>>>>> program. >>>>>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>>>>>>> friends >>>>>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>>>>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>>>>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. >>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>>>>>>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>>>>>>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, >>>>>>>> (for >>>>>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>>>>>>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>>>>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. >>>>>>>> All >>>>>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>>>>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>>>>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from >>>>>>>> LWSB! >>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world >>>>>>>>> within >>>>>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >>>>>>>>> technician >>>>>>>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 05:37:27 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 00:37:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anmol, what are you studying? You live in Arkansas for school; no wonder you know about the center. -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world Actually Jerry Leach is not there any more. He is actually doing his PH.D at the same university as me (University of Arkansas). Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > From: Joshua Lester > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:05 PM > Their Website is, www.lwsb.org. > Harold Williams, and Jerry Leach are > the counselors. They're great people, and I appreciate > them. They're > more than just counselors, if you have a problem, they're > there to > help. If something's going wrong, (the man smoking in his > room, while > I'm in there,) (for example,) the counselors are the ones > to reprimand > the offender. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur > wrote: > > I think that's a good think for those who have psyke > issues. What's their > > websight? RJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > > > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > > > > >> You don't have to attend after the first week. I > didn't go to them > >> after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, > the other one was your > >> "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The > turning over of meds must > >> have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended > a year or so after I > >> did. That's when they got a new administrator. > Ramona was crazy! They > >> do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked > the one I had. I > >> just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille > class. I hated the dorm > >> rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so > hot in the rooms, I > >> couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the > only places with air > >> conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and > the breizway. I > >> think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in > my list of > >> improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in > the salarium! I bet > >> it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua > >> > >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > > wrote: > >>> Anmol, > >>> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy > in policy and people's > >>> experiences has to do with the leadership > there. > >>> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over > meds to a nurse. You said > >>> its > >>> optional. > >>> Some centers have a rule where you have to be > cleared by an O&M staff > >>> person. Is this > >>> the case at LWSB before you can go off > campus? > >>> > >>> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still > have a psychologist and > >>> psychiatrist on staff. > >>> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take > the counseling class, > >>> assertive > >>> training I think they call it? > >>> > >>> Thanks. > >>> Ashley > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Anmol Bhatia > >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>> > >>> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are > adults and are treated as > >>> such. > >>> There is good and bad to every training > centers even the ones run by NFB. > >>> > >>> O! > >>> and I forgot to address one more point that of > taking one's meds. The > >>> trainies have the option to give their meds to > a nerse but are not > >>> required > >>> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is > totally the trainy's > >>> responsibility. The nerse will not come and > find you to remind you to > >>> take > >>> your medison. > >>> > >>> Anmol > >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they > never make me sad. Perhaps > >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; > but it is vague, like a > >>> breeze > >>> among flowers. > >>> Hellen Keller > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > >>>> > >>>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM > >>>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees > >>>> are 5 or more years past > >>>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the > only 18-year-old > >>>> there. > >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> > >>>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > They should get with the 21st century > this isn't the > >>>> 40's anymore. Or if it > >>>> > is why am I born and what am I doing > out hear on this > >>>> internet thingie? > >>>> > LOL! just kidding! > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" > >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing > >>>> list" > >>>> > > >>>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 > PM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >>I don't know, but they've done > this since their > >>>> founding in 1946. > >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> >> > >>>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas > > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a > curfew and make > >>>> everyone relinquish > >>>> >>> medications? > >>>> >>> That is dumbing really > independent blind > >>>> adults down to babys in my > >>>> >>> opinion! > >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" > >>>> >>> To: "National Association of > Blind Students > >>>> mailing list" > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, > 2011 4:36 PM > >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions > world > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> lolololol! The food is > horible! It's > >>>> always warm in the dorm rooms. > >>>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. > Everyone has to > >>>> relinquish their meds. The > >>>> >>>> piano in the salarium, > (I'm a musician,) > >>>> is out of tune. I hate old, > >>>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! > Someone kept breaking > >>>> the rules. He smoked in his > >>>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have > a choice on > >>>> whether I wanted a room mate or > >>>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand > him, because he was > >>>> always bragging about how > >>>> >>>> much alcohol he could > consume. I went for > >>>> an evaluation, in 2007. I > >>>> >>>> haven't attended a > training center. I've > >>>> received the mobility skills > >>>> >>>> in school, and received > my endependent > >>>> living skills at LWSB. I only > >>>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw > long an > >>>> evaluation lasts. I made some > >>>> >>>> friends, but some of > them, (including my > >>>> room mate,) were nothing but > >>>> >>>> trouble. There are other > places where he > >>>> can get training without > >>>> >>>> going to that place. O > yeah, and too many > >>>> of the trainees, allowed > >>>> >>>> their guide dogs to run > loose. I'm > >>>> allergic to dogs. > >>>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >>>>> Joshua, > >>>> >>>>> I told Josh that on > the other nabs > >>>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I > >>>> >>>>> told > >>>> >>>>> him to think through > it, think about > >>>> the rules and if he'd like to > >>>> >>>>> abide > >>>> >>>>> by > >>>> >>>>> such > restrictions. It didn't > >>>> work. > >>>> >>>>> Josh has already been > to a nfb center; > >>>> now he wants to get a > >>>> >>>>> certification; > >>>> >>>>> so perhaps he's > willing to stay > >>>> confined at LWSB to get that training. > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program > did you attend > >>>> and did you go to another training > >>>> >>>>> center afterward? > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> But do they really > have a lights out > >>>> rule? Do they really have a > >>>> >>>>> curphew > >>>> >>>>> where you got to be > in your room? > >>>> >>>>> I know they got dorms > and roommates. > >>>> They don't have apartments. > >>>> >>>>> Someone > >>>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB > list that the > >>>> food was not too good; it was > >>>> >>>>> mostly > >>>> >>>>> fried food which is > very unhealthy. > >>>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can > understand that if > >>>> a blind person cannot identify > >>>> >>>>> their > >>>> >>>>> meds; I mean some > newly blind people > >>>> cannot read braille or print and > >>>> >>>>> cannot > >>>> >>>>> know what meds they > have in what > >>>> bottle! > >>>> >>>>> But some blind people > have the skills > >>>> already to take their meds. > >>>> >>>>> However, is this an > individual > >>>> thing? Does everyone have to > relinquish > >>>> >>>>> their meds, or just > the ones who > >>>> cannot take it independently yet? > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> On their website it > says you have to > >>>> agree to relocate after the > >>>> >>>>> program. > >>>> >>>>> That sounds terrible > for the reasons > >>>> you stated. If you don't have > >>>> >>>>> friends > >>>> >>>>> or family down in say > Georga, then why > >>>> move there? > >>>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't > hear from you > >>>> again. > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> Ashley > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> -----Original > Message----- > >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, > February 11, 2011 4:04 > >>>> PM > >>>> >>>>> To: National > Association of Blind > >>>> Students mailing list > >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > lions world > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, > Arkansas? I attended > >>>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of > >>>> >>>>> those centers like > the one Tara was > >>>> talking about. They have "lights > >>>> >>>>> out," "nurses > controling meds," etc. I > >>>> know, because I was there. They > >>>> >>>>> thought that every > blind person needed > >>>> counseling. They called it > >>>> >>>>> assertiveness > training. The whole > >>>> thing is a scam! They ship you off > >>>> >>>>> to another state once > you've > >>>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is > >>>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because > that's mine.) You > >>>> go through the IRS program, (for > >>>> >>>>> example.) Once you've > graduated, > >>>> (since there are no jobs for you in > >>>> >>>>> that field, they'll > ship you to > >>>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > >>>> >>>>> somewhere else, > without your consent. > >>>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All > >>>> >>>>> of my family is here. > You think I'm > >>>> going to a state where I don't > >>>> >>>>> know anyone from > Adam? Nope! That's > >>>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > >>>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you > want that kind of > >>>> training, but stay away from LWSB! > >>>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh > Kennedy > >>>> wrote: > >>>> >>>>>> Hi > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> I want to let you > guys know that I > >>>> will be going to lions world within > >>>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so > months. I will be > >>>> going for desktop support > >>>> >>>>>> technician > >>>> >>>>>> and then > microsoft certified > >>>> systems engineer program. > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> Josh > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list > >>>> options or get your account info for > >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >>>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list > >>>> options or get your account info for > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list > >>>> options or get your account info for > >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >>>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options > >>>> or get your account info for > >>>> >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or > >>>> get your account info for > >>>> >>> nabs-l: > >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> >>> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get > >>>> your account info for > >>>> >> nabs-l: > >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > >>>> >> > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > nabs-l mailing list > >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your > >>>> account info for > >>>> > nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your > >>>> account info for nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 05:50:12 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:50:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There are people from many different states, who are sent there, by their DSB counselors, rehab counselors, etc. I was the only Arkansan, (when it came to trainees,) there. I was constantly made fun of, because of my ocasional, "Y'all." Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Anmol, > what are you studying? You live in Arkansas for school; no wonder you know > about the center. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:58 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > Actually Jerry Leach is not there any more. He is actually doing his PH.D at > the same university as me (University of Arkansas). > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:05 PM >> Their Website is, www.lwsb.org. >> Harold Williams, and Jerry Leach are >> the counselors. They're great people, and I appreciate >> them. They're >> more than just counselors, if you have a problem, they're >> there to >> help. If something's going wrong, (the man smoking in his >> room, while >> I'm in there,) (for example,) the counselors are the ones >> to reprimand >> the offender. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur >> wrote: >> > I think that's a good think for those who have psyke >> issues. What's their >> > websight? RJ >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> > >> > >> >> You don't have to attend after the first week. I >> didn't go to them >> >> after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, >> the other one was your >> >> "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The >> turning over of meds must >> >> have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended >> a year or so after I >> >> did. That's when they got a new administrator. >> Ramona was crazy! They >> >> do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked >> the one I had. I >> >> just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille >> class. I hated the dorm >> >> rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so >> hot in the rooms, I >> >> couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the >> only places with air >> >> conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and >> the breizway. I >> >> think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in >> my list of >> >> improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in >> the salarium! I bet >> >> it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >> wrote: >> >>> Anmol, >> >>> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy >> in policy and people's >> >>> experiences has to do with the leadership >> there. >> >>> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over >> meds to a nurse. You said >> >>> its >> >>> optional. >> >>> Some centers have a rule where you have to be >> cleared by an O&M staff >> >>> person. Is this >> >>> the case at LWSB before you can go off >> campus? >> >>> >> >>> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still >> have a psychologist and >> >>> psychiatrist on staff. >> >>> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take >> the counseling class, >> >>> assertive >> >>> training I think they call it? >> >>> >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> Ashley >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>> >> >>> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are >> adults and are treated as >> >>> such. >> >>> There is good and bad to every training >> centers even the ones run by NFB. >> >>> >> >>> O! >> >>> and I forgot to address one more point that of >> taking one's meds. The >> >>> trainies have the option to give their meds to >> a nerse but are not >> >>> required >> >>> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is >> totally the trainy's >> >>> responsibility. The nerse will not come and >> find you to remind you to >> >>> take >> >>> your medison. >> >>> >> >>> Anmol >> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they >> never make me sad. Perhaps >> >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; >> but it is vague, like a >> >>> breeze >> >>> among flowers. >> >>> Hellen Keller >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list" >> >>>> >> >>>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >> >>>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >> >>>> are 5 or more years past >> >>>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the >> only 18-year-old >> >>>> there. >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> > They should get with the 21st century >> this isn't the >> >>>> 40's anymore. Or if it >> >>>> > is why am I born and what am I doing >> out hear on this >> >>>> internet thingie? >> >>>> > LOL! just kidding! >> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >>>> list" >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 >> PM >> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >>I don't know, but they've done >> this since their >> >>>> founding in 1946. >> >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a >> curfew and make >> >>>> everyone relinquish >> >>>> >>> medications? >> >>>> >>> That is dumbing really >> independent blind >> >>>> adults down to babys in my >> >>>> >>> opinion! >> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>>> >>> To: "National Association of >> Blind Students >> >>>> mailing list" >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, >> 2011 4:36 PM >> >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions >> world >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> lolololol! The food is >> horible! It's >> >>>> always warm in the dorm rooms. >> >>>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. >> Everyone has to >> >>>> relinquish their meds. The >> >>>> >>>> piano in the salarium, >> (I'm a musician,) >> >>>> is out of tune. I hate old, >> >>>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! >> Someone kept breaking >> >>>> the rules. He smoked in his >> >>>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have >> a choice on >> >>>> whether I wanted a room mate or >> >>>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand >> him, because he was >> >>>> always bragging about how >> >>>> >>>> much alcohol he could >> consume. I went for >> >>>> an evaluation, in 2007. I >> >>>> >>>> haven't attended a >> training center. I've >> >>>> received the mobility skills >> >>>> >>>> in school, and received >> my endependent >> >>>> living skills at LWSB. I only >> >>>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw >> long an >> >>>> evaluation lasts. I made some >> >>>> >>>> friends, but some of >> them, (including my >> >>>> room mate,) were nothing but >> >>>> >>>> trouble. There are other >> places where he >> >>>> can get training without >> >>>> >>>> going to that place. O >> yeah, and too many >> >>>> of the trainees, allowed >> >>>> >>>> their guide dogs to run >> loose. I'm >> >>>> allergic to dogs. >> >>>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >>>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, >> >>>> >>>>> I told Josh that on >> the other nabs >> >>>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >> >>>> >>>>> told >> >>>> >>>>> him to think through >> it, think about >> >>>> the rules and if he'd like to >> >>>> >>>>> abide >> >>>> >>>>> by >> >>>> >>>>> such >> restrictions. It didn't >> >>>> work. >> >>>> >>>>> Josh has already been >> to a nfb center; >> >>>> now he wants to get a >> >>>> >>>>> certification; >> >>>> >>>>> so perhaps he's >> willing to stay >> >>>> confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program >> did you attend >> >>>> and did you go to another training >> >>>> >>>>> center afterward? >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> But do they really >> have a lights out >> >>>> rule? Do they really have a >> >>>> >>>>> curphew >> >>>> >>>>> where you got to be >> in your room? >> >>>> >>>>> I know they got dorms >> and roommates. >> >>>> They don't have apartments. >> >>>> >>>>> Someone >> >>>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB >> list that the >> >>>> food was not too good; it was >> >>>> >>>>> mostly >> >>>> >>>>> fried food which is >> very unhealthy. >> >>>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can >> understand that if >> >>>> a blind person cannot identify >> >>>> >>>>> their >> >>>> >>>>> meds; I mean some >> newly blind people >> >>>> cannot read braille or print and >> >>>> >>>>> cannot >> >>>> >>>>> know what meds they >> have in what >> >>>> bottle! >> >>>> >>>>> But some blind people >> have the skills >> >>>> already to take their meds. >> >>>> >>>>> However, is this an >> individual >> >>>> thing? Does everyone have to >> relinquish >> >>>> >>>>> their meds, or just >> the ones who >> >>>> cannot take it independently yet? >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> On their website it >> says you have to >> >>>> agree to relocate after the >> >>>> >>>>> program. >> >>>> >>>>> That sounds terrible >> for the reasons >> >>>> you stated. If you don't have >> >>>> >>>>> friends >> >>>> >>>>> or family down in say >> Georga, then why >> >>>> move there? >> >>>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't >> hear from you >> >>>> again. >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> Ashley >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> -----Original >> Message----- >> >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, >> February 11, 2011 4:04 >> >>>> PM >> >>>> >>>>> To: National >> Association of Blind >> >>>> Students mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> lions world >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, >> Arkansas? I attended >> >>>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> >>>> >>>>> those centers like >> the one Tara was >> >>>> talking about. They have "lights >> >>>> >>>>> out," "nurses >> controling meds," etc. I >> >>>> know, because I was there. They >> >>>> >>>>> thought that every >> blind person needed >> >>>> counseling. They called it >> >>>> >>>>> assertiveness >> training. The whole >> >>>> thing is a scam! They ship you off >> >>>> >>>>> to another state once >> you've >> >>>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> >>>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because >> that's mine.) You >> >>>> go through the IRS program, (for >> >>>> >>>>> example.) Once you've >> graduated, >> >>>> (since there are no jobs for you in >> >>>> >>>>> that field, they'll >> ship you to >> >>>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> >>>> >>>>> somewhere else, >> without your consent. >> >>>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> >>>> >>>>> of my family is here. >> You think I'm >> >>>> going to a state where I don't >> >>>> >>>>> know anyone from >> Adam? Nope! That's >> >>>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> >>>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you >> want that kind of >> >>>> training, but stay away from LWSB! >> >>>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh >> Kennedy >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>>> Hi >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> I want to let you >> guys know that I >> >>>> will be going to lions world within >> >>>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so >> months. I will be >> >>>> going for desktop support >> >>>> >>>>>> technician >> >>>> >>>>>> and then >> microsoft certified >> >>>> systems engineer program. >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> Josh >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing >> list >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change >> your list options >> >>>> or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or >> >>>> get your account info for >> >>>> >>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get >> >>>> your account info for >> >>>> >> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your >> >>>> account info for >> >>>> > nabs-l: >> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your >> >>>> account info for nabs-l: >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From nabs.president at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 06:12:32 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:12:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Josh K., I'm just curious: Are you interested in attending LWSB to get training in basic blindness skills like Braille and O&M, or are you going there to get a certification in desktop support/Microsoft systems engineer? If you are going for training, then talking to LWSB alumni about the pros and cons of the program seems wise. If you are going just to get the certificates, then have you thought about trying to get certified through a regular program near your home or online? I'm not sure there's anything better about getting certified through a blindness center than getting certified through the same kinds of programs that sighted technicians use, and since you mentioned you have a wife and child, this would allow you to stay home with them. It's just a thought. Arielle On 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > There are people from many different states, who are sent there, by > their DSB counselors, rehab counselors, etc. I was the only Arkansan, > (when it came to trainees,) there. I was constantly made fun of, > because of my ocasional, "Y'all." Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Anmol, >> what are you studying? You live in Arkansas for school; no wonder you know >> about the center. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Anmol Bhatia >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:58 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> Actually Jerry Leach is not there any more. He is actually doing his PH.D >> at >> the same university as me (University of Arkansas). >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:05 PM >>> Their Website is, www.lwsb.org. >>> Harold Williams, and Jerry Leach are >>> the counselors. They're great people, and I appreciate >>> them. They're >>> more than just counselors, if you have a problem, they're >>> there to >>> help. If something's going wrong, (the man smoking in his >>> room, while >>> I'm in there,) (for example,) the counselors are the ones >>> to reprimand >>> the offender. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur >>> wrote: >>> > I think that's a good think for those who have psyke >>> issues. What's their >>> > websight? RJ >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> > >>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> > >>> > >>> >> You don't have to attend after the first week. I >>> didn't go to them >>> >> after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, >>> the other one was your >>> >> "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The >>> turning over of meds must >>> >> have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended >>> a year or so after I >>> >> did. That's when they got a new administrator. >>> Ramona was crazy! They >>> >> do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked >>> the one I had. I >>> >> just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille >>> class. I hated the dorm >>> >> rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so >>> hot in the rooms, I >>> >> couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the >>> only places with air >>> >> conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and >>> the breizway. I >>> >> think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in >>> my list of >>> >> improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in >>> the salarium! I bet >>> >> it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua >>> >> >>> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Anmol, >>> >>> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy >>> in policy and people's >>> >>> experiences has to do with the leadership >>> there. >>> >>> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over >>> meds to a nurse. You said >>> >>> its >>> >>> optional. >>> >>> Some centers have a rule where you have to be >>> cleared by an O&M staff >>> >>> person. Is this >>> >>> the case at LWSB before you can go off >>> campus? >>> >>> >>> >>> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still >>> have a psychologist and >>> >>> psychiatrist on staff. >>> >>> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take >>> the counseling class, >>> >>> assertive >>> >>> training I think they call it? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM >>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> >>> >>> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are >>> adults and are treated as >>> >>> such. >>> >>> There is good and bad to every training >>> centers even the ones run by NFB. >>> >>> >>> >>> O! >>> >>> and I forgot to address one more point that of >>> taking one's meds. The >>> >>> trainies have the option to give their meds to >>> a nerse but are not >>> >>> required >>> >>> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is >>> totally the trainy's >>> >>> responsibility. The nerse will not come and >>> find you to remind you to >>> >>> take >>> >>> your medison. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anmol >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they >>> never make me sad. Perhaps >>> >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; >>> but it is vague, like a >>> >>> breeze >>> >>> among flowers. >>> >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >>> >>>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >>> >>>> are 5 or more years past >>> >>>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the >>> only 18-year-old >>> >>>> there. >>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> > They should get with the 21st century >>> this isn't the >>> >>>> 40's anymore. Or if it >>> >>>> > is why am I born and what am I doing >>> out hear on this >>> >>>> internet thingie? >>> >>>> > LOL! just kidding! >>> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing >>> >>>> list" >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 >>> PM >>> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> >>I don't know, but they've done >>> this since their >>> >>>> founding in 1946. >>> >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a >>> curfew and make >>> >>>> everyone relinquish >>> >>>> >>> medications? >>> >>>> >>> That is dumbing really >>> independent blind >>> >>>> adults down to babys in my >>> >>>> >>> opinion! >>> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>>> >>> To: "National Association of >>> Blind Students >>> >>>> mailing list" >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, >>> 2011 4:36 PM >>> >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions >>> world >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> lolololol! The food is >>> horible! It's >>> >>>> always warm in the dorm rooms. >>> >>>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. >>> Everyone has to >>> >>>> relinquish their meds. The >>> >>>> >>>> piano in the salarium, >>> (I'm a musician,) >>> >>>> is out of tune. I hate old, >>> >>>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! >>> Someone kept breaking >>> >>>> the rules. He smoked in his >>> >>>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have >>> a choice on >>> >>>> whether I wanted a room mate or >>> >>>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand >>> him, because he was >>> >>>> always bragging about how >>> >>>> >>>> much alcohol he could >>> consume. I went for >>> >>>> an evaluation, in 2007. I >>> >>>> >>>> haven't attended a >>> training center. I've >>> >>>> received the mobility skills >>> >>>> >>>> in school, and received >>> my endependent >>> >>>> living skills at LWSB. I only >>> >>>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw >>> long an >>> >>>> evaluation lasts. I made some >>> >>>> >>>> friends, but some of >>> them, (including my >>> >>>> room mate,) were nothing but >>> >>>> >>>> trouble. There are other >>> places where he >>> >>>> can get training without >>> >>>> >>>> going to that place. O >>> yeah, and too many >>> >>>> of the trainees, allowed >>> >>>> >>>> their guide dogs to run >>> loose. I'm >>> >>>> allergic to dogs. >>> >>>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> >>>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, >>> >>>> >>>>> I told Josh that on >>> the other nabs >>> >>>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>> >>>> >>>>> told >>> >>>> >>>>> him to think through >>> it, think about >>> >>>> the rules and if he'd like to >>> >>>> >>>>> abide >>> >>>> >>>>> by >>> >>>> >>>>> such >>> restrictions. It didn't >>> >>>> work. >>> >>>> >>>>> Josh has already been >>> to a nfb center; >>> >>>> now he wants to get a >>> >>>> >>>>> certification; >>> >>>> >>>>> so perhaps he's >>> willing to stay >>> >>>> confined at LWSB to get that training. >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program >>> did you attend >>> >>>> and did you go to another training >>> >>>> >>>>> center afterward? >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> But do they really >>> have a lights out >>> >>>> rule? Do they really have a >>> >>>> >>>>> curphew >>> >>>> >>>>> where you got to be >>> in your room? >>> >>>> >>>>> I know they got dorms >>> and roommates. >>> >>>> They don't have apartments. >>> >>>> >>>>> Someone >>> >>>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB >>> list that the >>> >>>> food was not too good; it was >>> >>>> >>>>> mostly >>> >>>> >>>>> fried food which is >>> very unhealthy. >>> >>>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can >>> understand that if >>> >>>> a blind person cannot identify >>> >>>> >>>>> their >>> >>>> >>>>> meds; I mean some >>> newly blind people >>> >>>> cannot read braille or print and >>> >>>> >>>>> cannot >>> >>>> >>>>> know what meds they >>> have in what >>> >>>> bottle! >>> >>>> >>>>> But some blind people >>> have the skills >>> >>>> already to take their meds. >>> >>>> >>>>> However, is this an >>> individual >>> >>>> thing? Does everyone have to >>> relinquish >>> >>>> >>>>> their meds, or just >>> the ones who >>> >>>> cannot take it independently yet? >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> On their website it >>> says you have to >>> >>>> agree to relocate after the >>> >>>> >>>>> program. >>> >>>> >>>>> That sounds terrible >>> for the reasons >>> >>>> you stated. If you don't have >>> >>>> >>>>> friends >>> >>>> >>>>> or family down in say >>> Georga, then why >>> >>>> move there? >>> >>>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't >>> hear from you >>> >>>> again. >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original >>> Message----- >>> >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, >>> February 11, 2011 4:04 >>> >>>> PM >>> >>>> >>>>> To: National >>> Association of Blind >>> >>>> Students mailing list >>> >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >>> lions world >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, >>> Arkansas? I attended >>> >>>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>> >>>> >>>>> those centers like >>> the one Tara was >>> >>>> talking about. They have "lights >>> >>>> >>>>> out," "nurses >>> controling meds," etc. I >>> >>>> know, because I was there. They >>> >>>> >>>>> thought that every >>> blind person needed >>> >>>> counseling. They called it >>> >>>> >>>>> assertiveness >>> training. The whole >>> >>>> thing is a scam! They ship you off >>> >>>> >>>>> to another state once >>> you've >>> >>>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>> >>>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because >>> that's mine.) You >>> >>>> go through the IRS program, (for >>> >>>> >>>>> example.) Once you've >>> graduated, >>> >>>> (since there are no jobs for you in >>> >>>> >>>>> that field, they'll >>> ship you to >>> >>>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>> >>>> >>>>> somewhere else, >>> without your consent. >>> >>>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>> >>>> >>>>> of my family is here. >>> You think I'm >>> >>>> going to a state where I don't >>> >>>> >>>>> know anyone from >>> Adam? Nope! That's >>> >>>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>> >>>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you >>> want that kind of >>> >>>> training, but stay away from LWSB! >>> >>>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh >>> Kennedy >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>>> Hi >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>>> I want to let you >>> guys know that I >>> >>>> will be going to lions world within >>> >>>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so >>> months. I will be >>> >>>> going for desktop support >>> >>>> >>>>>> technician >>> >>>> >>>>>> and then >>> microsoft certified >>> >>>> systems engineer program. >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>>> Josh >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing >>> list >>> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, >>> change your list >>> >>>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >>> change your list >>> >>>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >>> change your list >>> >>>> options or get your account info for >>> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change >>> your list options >>> >>>> or get your account info for >>> >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your >>> list options or >>> >>>> get your account info for >>> >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get >>> >>>> your account info for >>> >>>> >> nabs-l: >>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your >>> >>>> account info for >>> >>>> > nabs-l: >>> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get your >>> >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get your account info for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Get your own web address. >> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. >> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat Feb 12 06:23:40 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:23:40 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Needing text pal References: Message-ID: A few words of caution: Not all PDF's can be saved as text. This is only possible if the PDF is made a certain way. As a matter of fact, it has been my experience that, if Jaws cannot read the PDF in Adobe Acrobat, then you cannot save it as text. Even if a PDF can be saved as text, it is not always the best way. This tends to insert linebreaks where there are not any visually and leaves out any blank lines. Finally, I have come across PDF's that could be saved as text, but what the text said had no resemblance to what was actually written. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:05 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Needing text pal > Ashley, > > When I said Word, I meant Adobe Acrobat. I am having one of those days. > PDF's open up through Adobe, and through Adobe, you can convert into > text files. It is quick and easy to do. Most computers have Adobe > Acrobat on them. > > All you have to do is go to the File menu then go to Save As Text. > > If it is not on your computer, you should be able to install it. > > Bridgit > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From winy_kwany at yahoo.com Sat Feb 12 09:56:27 2011 From: winy_kwany at yahoo.com (Winy Kwany) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:56:27 +0800 (SGT) Subject: [nabs-l] embossing with Index Basic D--any help? Message-ID: <207281.96785.qm@web76816.mail.sg1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I apologize if this is out of topic. I just try my best to find help as soon as possible. I have Index Basic D embosser. When I emboss both BRF and DXB files, they look fine for the first and second page, but it embosses funny things which are not content of the documents at all in page3 and 4. It embosses the continuation of the document in page5 and 6, and it embosses the funny things again in the next two pages. This patterrn is happening on and on. The dots are unreadable. It's only consist of letter A, B, E and I repeated again and again. Any Index Basic users experience similar thing? What should I do? What setting should I change/adjust? Is there any way to reset the embosser's memory or the embosser setting except the "Change set up or saving set up menu". Any mailing list for Index Basic users? I look forward to hearing from you soon. Please forward this to anyone who can help. I have contacted Index Basic customer service but I haven't heard from them. Any help, ideas, input will be highly appreciated. Many thanks. Winy. From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 14:56:34 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 09:56:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <000501cbcac5$0ddd0df0$9560c747@BRIAN> They administer meds to those that can't handle medicin administration yet. As an adult even if I didn't have the skills to live on my own yet and I was at a center I'd rather be in jail than treated like a minor under 18! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > Brian, > Because some centers treat adults like children. > Adults at centers may not have the skills to live, but they are still > adults who can think and make decissions, and need to be treated as such. > I know nurses are at the carroll center. But I don't know what role they > play. > Do they administer meds to everyone, or just those who can't handle it yet > themselves? > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:00 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish > medications? > That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to babys in my > opinion! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>> told >>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >>> by >>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>> certification; >>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>> >>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>> center afterward? >>> >>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>> curphew >>> where you got to be in your room? >>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>> Someone >>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>> their >>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>> cannot >>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>> >>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>> program. >>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>> friends >>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:11:10 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:11:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <4D56A30E.5040402@gmail.com> Hi No I will not stay away from lwsb. I am willing to relocate. I will take my wife and son to wherever my job will be. the rest of my family can stay behind in pennsylvania. I will fly back here to visit them a few times a year or when i can afford to do so. My wife and son are my immediate family and I will simply move them to where I will be working at. Besides why should I go to lcb? I already successfully graduated from the colorado center for the blind nfb. I want vocational training, not more independence training. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:14:10 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:14:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <4D56A3C2.6010409@gmail.com> Hi My friend who is there now really likes it. he has a guide dog. he does not have a room mate. he said right now they have a lot of empty rooms. Him and I are very very good friends and I have known him for a few years now. I know him well enough that if he says he thinks I'll do good at lions world and I'll like it then I think I can believe him, mark, that is. If I have to move my family to Arkansas, florida, alabama, wherever so I can get a job and work then that is what I will do. As for the rest of my folks back here in pensylvania? I can fly back once or twice a year and visit for a week or two. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:15:12 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:15:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <4D56A400.1040004@gmail.com> Hi Yes I am a student at capella university but I am taking several quarters off to attend lions world. having the certifications will allow me to clep out of some or a good number of my college classes. From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:17:17 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:17:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <4D56A47D.20101@gmail.com> Hi there is no kerfew at lions world. My friend mark is there now, he says so and I believe him. also my friend jason went there. he also recommended it to me. and my counselor is letting me go so hey I'm taking advantage of this opportunity because it may not be offered to me again. Josh From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:18:58 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:18:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation Message-ID: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 cities with the best public transit. You can search the site for the article to read more about each entry, but note that the presentation is an online slideshow. Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver #8 Honolulu #7 Los Angeles #6 San Francisco #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul #4 Boston #3 New York City #2 Salt Lake City #1 Portland Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:26:30 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:26:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> Message-ID: I'm shocked that Washing D.C. was not in the top 10. I've gone to Austin, u sed its transportation and didn't like it, but I loved the Metro and bus system in D.C. I know this top ten is not based on access to the blind, but I was sighted when I used both of these transportation systems, so yea....I'd like to see what they based their choices on, because I honestly think D.C. should have been in there. On 2/12/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 cities with > the best public transit. You can search the site for the article to read > more about each entry, but note that the presentation is an online > slideshow. > > Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver > #8 Honolulu > #7 Los Angeles > #6 San Francisco > #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul > #4 Boston > #3 New York City > #2 Salt Lake City > #1 Portland > > Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From davidb521 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:26:37 2011 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 09:26:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> Message-ID: What was 10? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 12, 2011, at 9:18 AM, "Joe Orozco" wrote: > US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 cities with > the best public transit. You can search the site for the article to read > more about each entry, but note that the presentation is an online > slideshow. > > Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver > #8 Honolulu > #7 Los Angeles > #6 San Francisco > #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul > #4 Boston > #3 New York City > #2 Salt Lake City > #1 Portland > > Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:27:00 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:27:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <4D56A6C4.5090407@gmail.com> Hi But I don't really want to stay in my community. I want to move to a different one, a bigger one, more stuff going on. Reading is too small. There are no jobs. Even a lady at my church said if you can, move! Berks county is not the place for jobs you won't find them here, at least not in your area of interest. So with the help of voc rehab I'll when the time comes just move my family to, well, wherever I need to be to work and make a reasonably good income. and I'll just get on a plane or amtrack train and visit my family back in pennsylvania a few times a year. It will be very hard work yes I know but I think it will be so very rewarding. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:32:07 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:32:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] relocation for jobs Message-ID: <4D56A7F7.9010007@gmail.com> Hi Oh in my opinion relocation will be excellent! that is depending on where I relocate to. Personally I cannot wait to relocate my family, move and start working and making a decent living. It sure beats sitting here living off of the government for the rest of my life. so yes and I told lions world this I said yes yes I will gladly and happily relocate my entire family if it means I can work, get off of SSI and live as close to sighted people and make at least $3000 a year and stuff yes I will gladly very gladly relocate. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:33:24 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:33:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] looking for a church Message-ID: <4D56A844.9080308@gmail.com> Hi I already found the church I want to go to and I'm not even there yet. I used google maps and tell-me. now on monday I will call the church and ask when I'm there if they'll pick me up. if not I'l use my trekker breeze, create a route, verify with my o&m instructor, and walk to the church. yes that is what I will do. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:36:39 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:36:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] finding a church Message-ID: <4D56A907.90509@gmail.com> Hi oh that's so simple. use tell me or google maps and find whatever church you want. I'm catholic so I just entered catholic church plus zip code. a number of them came up. I then chose the closest one to the center. I then used the get directions of google maps to make a walking route from lions world to the church so I have a rough idea of how to get there if I want to walk using my cane and trekker breeze. Josh From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 15:47:30 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:47:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world References: <4D56A400.1040004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005b01cbcacc$294e0830$9560c747@BRIAN> Stop it Josh! We know you are going hear to lyons world Just get an Apartment in Arkansas and move your wife and child. You should've done this before getting maried! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:15 AM Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world > Hi > > > Yes I am a student at capella university but I am taking several quarters > off to attend lions world. having the certifications will allow me to clep > out of some or a good number of my college classes. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 15:54:01 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:54:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] finding a church References: <4D56A907.90509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006f01cbcacd$12e62450$9560c747@BRIAN> At least your annoyance will be gone while you are at the center. From this list! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:36 AM Subject: [nabs-l] finding a church > Hi > > oh that's so simple. use tell me or google maps and find whatever church > you want. I'm catholic so I just entered catholic church plus zip code. a > number of them came up. I then chose the closest one to the center. I then > used the get directions of google maps to make a walking route from lions > world to the church so I have a rough idea of how to get there if I want > to walk using my cane and trekker breeze. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 15:55:09 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:55:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world References: <4D56A400.1040004@gmail.com> <005b01cbcacc$294e0830$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Josh, you can email me off list if you like. joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Can you tell me a bit about this place? RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re lions world > Stop it Josh! We know you are going hear to lyons world Just get an > Apartment in Arkansas and move your wife and child. You should've done > this before getting maried! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Josh Kennedy" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:15 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world > > >> Hi >> >> >> Yes I am a student at capella university but I am taking several quarters >> off to attend lions world. having the certifications will allow me to >> clep out of some or a good number of my college classes. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 16:53:09 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:53:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> Message-ID: <10D4AB70A8BB4C8F93BA1349DDAA8955@Rufus> Julie, Trust me. I live in DC and was surprised as well. My only guess is that certain parts of the District are not serviced by the subway, but even in these areas there is a sufficient number of trolleys, shuttles and city buses. Dave, There was no #10. #9 was a tie. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 17:05:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:05:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <439812.51298.qm@web162015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40E38BF938554208A352182154DD6FFA@OwnerPC> Joshua, That's sad; they shouldn't make fun of an accent. My dad's family is southern and while its harder to understand, I am used to the southern accent. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 12:50 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world There are people from many different states, who are sent there, by their DSB counselors, rehab counselors, etc. I was the only Arkansan, (when it came to trainees,) there. I was constantly made fun of, because of my ocasional, "Y'all." Blessings, Joshua On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Anmol, > what are you studying? You live in Arkansas for school; no wonder you know > about the center. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:58 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > Actually Jerry Leach is not there any more. He is actually doing his PH.D > at > the same university as me (University of Arkansas). > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> From: Joshua Lester >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:05 PM >> Their Website is, www.lwsb.org. >> Harold Williams, and Jerry Leach are >> the counselors. They're great people, and I appreciate >> them. They're >> more than just counselors, if you have a problem, they're >> there to >> help. If something's going wrong, (the man smoking in his >> room, while >> I'm in there,) (for example,) the counselors are the ones >> to reprimand >> the offender. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur >> wrote: >> > I think that's a good think for those who have psyke >> issues. What's their >> > websight? RJ >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> > >> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 10:48 PM >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> > >> > >> >> You don't have to attend after the first week. I >> didn't go to them >> >> after the first week. Whoever your advisor was, >> the other one was your >> >> "Assertiveness Training" counselor. The >> turning over of meds must >> >> have stopped when Anmol went. I think he attended >> a year or so after I >> >> did. That's when they got a new administrator. >> Ramona was crazy! They >> >> do have good O and M instructors, though. I liked >> the one I had. I >> >> just didn't care for the not-so-needed Braille >> class. I hated the dorm >> >> rooms. It was mid-fall, and they always had it so >> hot in the rooms, I >> >> couldn't stand it. It was 100 degrees, and the >> only places with air >> >> conditioning were the cafeterea, the salarium, and >> the breizway. I >> >> think the classrooms were hot to. They also, (in >> my list of >> >> improvements,) need to tune that stinking piano in >> the salarium! I bet >> >> it's still out of tune! Blessings, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >> wrote: >> >>> Anmol, >> >>> When did you go there? Perhaps the discrepancy >> in policy and people's >> >>> experiences has to do with the leadership >> there. >> >>> Joshua Lester said everyone had to turn over >> meds to a nurse. You said >> >>> its >> >>> optional. >> >>> Some centers have a rule where you have to be >> cleared by an O&M staff >> >>> person. Is this >> >>> the case at LWSB before you can go off >> campus? >> >>> >> >>> Also acording to the LWSB website, they still >> have a psychologist and >> >>> psychiatrist on staff. >> >>> Is that the case? If so, do you have to take >> the counseling class, >> >>> assertive >> >>> training I think they call it? >> >>> >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> Ashley >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Anmol Bhatia >> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:34 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>> >> >>> Josh most of the people who attend LWSB are >> adults and are treated as >> >>> such. >> >>> There is good and bad to every training >> centers even the ones run by NFB. >> >>> >> >>> O! >> >>> and I forgot to address one more point that of >> taking one's meds. The >> >>> trainies have the option to give their meds to >> a nerse but are not >> >>> required >> >>> to do so. However, coming to take the meds is >> totally the trainy's >> >>> responsibility. The nerse will not come and >> find you to remind you to >> >>> take >> >>> your medison. >> >>> >> >>> Anmol >> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they >> never make me sad. Perhaps >> >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; >> but it is vague, like a >> >>> breeze >> >>> among flowers. >> >>> Hellen Keller >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Joshua Lester >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list" >> >>>> >> >>>> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 6:19 PM >> >>>> Exactly! The majority of the trainees >> >>>> are 5 or more years past >> >>>> "fresh-out-of-high-school" age. I was the >> only 18-year-old >> >>>> there. >> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >>>> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> > They should get with the 21st century >> this isn't the >> >>>> 40's anymore. Or if it >> >>>> > is why am I born and what am I doing >> out hear on this >> >>>> internet thingie? >> >>>> > LOL! just kidding! >> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> > From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>>> > To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >> >>>> list" >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:07 >> PM >> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> >>I don't know, but they've done >> this since their >> >>>> founding in 1946. >> >>>> >> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> On 2/11/11, Brian Hatgelakas >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>> Why did Lyons World have a >> curfew and make >> >>>> everyone relinquish >> >>>> >>> medications? >> >>>> >>> That is dumbing really >> independent blind >> >>>> adults down to babys in my >> >>>> >>> opinion! >> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>>> >>> To: "National Association of >> Blind Students >> >>>> mailing list" >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, >> 2011 4:36 PM >> >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions >> world >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> lolololol! The food is >> horible! It's >> >>>> always warm in the dorm rooms. >> >>>> >>>> Yes, there's a curfue. >> Everyone has to >> >>>> relinquish their meds. The >> >>>> >>>> piano in the salarium, >> (I'm a musician,) >> >>>> is out of tune. I hate old, >> >>>> >>>> out-of-tune pianos! >> Someone kept breaking >> >>>> the rules. He smoked in his >> >>>> >>>> dorm room. I didn't have >> a choice on >> >>>> whether I wanted a room mate or >> >>>> >>>> not. I couldn't stand >> him, because he was >> >>>> always bragging about how >> >>>> >>>> much alcohol he could >> consume. I went for >> >>>> an evaluation, in 2007. I >> >>>> >>>> haven't attended a >> training center. I've >> >>>> received the mobility skills >> >>>> >>>> in school, and received >> my endependent >> >>>> living skills at LWSB. I only >> >>>> >>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw >> long an >> >>>> evaluation lasts. I made some >> >>>> >>>> friends, but some of >> them, (including my >> >>>> room mate,) were nothing but >> >>>> >>>> trouble. There are other >> places where he >> >>>> can get training without >> >>>> >>>> going to that place. O >> yeah, and too many >> >>>> of the trainees, allowed >> >>>> >>>> their guide dogs to run >> loose. I'm >> >>>> allergic to dogs. >> >>>> >>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >>>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, >> >>>> >>>>> I told Josh that on >> the other nabs >> >>>> list, the one belonging to ACB; I >> >>>> >>>>> told >> >>>> >>>>> him to think through >> it, think about >> >>>> the rules and if he'd like to >> >>>> >>>>> abide >> >>>> >>>>> by >> >>>> >>>>> such >> restrictions. It didn't >> >>>> work. >> >>>> >>>>> Josh has already been >> to a nfb center; >> >>>> now he wants to get a >> >>>> >>>>> certification; >> >>>> >>>>> so perhaps he's >> willing to stay >> >>>> confined at LWSB to get that training. >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> Joshua, what program >> did you attend >> >>>> and did you go to another training >> >>>> >>>>> center afterward? >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> But do they really >> have a lights out >> >>>> rule? Do they really have a >> >>>> >>>>> curphew >> >>>> >>>>> where you got to be >> in your room? >> >>>> >>>>> I know they got dorms >> and roommates. >> >>>> They don't have apartments. >> >>>> >>>>> Someone >> >>>> >>>>> told me from Nabs ACB >> list that the >> >>>> food was not too good; it was >> >>>> >>>>> mostly >> >>>> >>>>> fried food which is >> very unhealthy. >> >>>> >>>>> As to nurses, I can >> understand that if >> >>>> a blind person cannot identify >> >>>> >>>>> their >> >>>> >>>>> meds; I mean some >> newly blind people >> >>>> cannot read braille or print and >> >>>> >>>>> cannot >> >>>> >>>>> know what meds they >> have in what >> >>>> bottle! >> >>>> >>>>> But some blind people >> have the skills >> >>>> already to take their meds. >> >>>> >>>>> However, is this an >> individual >> >>>> thing? Does everyone have to >> relinquish >> >>>> >>>>> their meds, or just >> the ones who >> >>>> cannot take it independently yet? >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> On their website it >> says you have to >> >>>> agree to relocate after the >> >>>> >>>>> program. >> >>>> >>>>> That sounds terrible >> for the reasons >> >>>> you stated. If you don't have >> >>>> >>>>> friends >> >>>> >>>>> or family down in say >> Georga, then why >> >>>> move there? >> >>>> >>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't >> hear from you >> >>>> again. >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> Ashley >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> -----Original >> Message----- >> >>>> >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, >> February 11, 2011 4:04 >> >>>> PM >> >>>> >>>>> To: National >> Association of Blind >> >>>> Students mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> lions world >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> In Little Rock, >> Arkansas? I attended >> >>>> there for 4 weeks. That is one of >> >>>> >>>>> those centers like >> the one Tara was >> >>>> talking about. They have "lights >> >>>> >>>>> out," "nurses >> controling meds," etc. I >> >>>> know, because I was there. They >> >>>> >>>>> thought that every >> blind person needed >> >>>> counseling. They called it >> >>>> >>>>> assertiveness >> training. The whole >> >>>> thing is a scam! They ship you off >> >>>> >>>>> to another state once >> you've >> >>>> graduated. Let's say, your home state is >> >>>> >>>>> Arkansas, (because >> that's mine.) You >> >>>> go through the IRS program, (for >> >>>> >>>>> example.) Once you've >> graduated, >> >>>> (since there are no jobs for you in >> >>>> >>>>> that field, they'll >> ship you to >> >>>> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> >>>> >>>>> somewhere else, >> without your consent. >> >>>> I want to stay in Arkansas. All >> >>>> >>>>> of my family is here. >> You think I'm >> >>>> going to a state where I don't >> >>>> >>>>> know anyone from >> Adam? Nope! That's >> >>>> all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >> >>>> >>>>> Go to LCB, if you >> want that kind of >> >>>> training, but stay away from LWSB! >> >>>> >>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh >> Kennedy >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>>> Hi >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> I want to let you >> guys know that I >> >>>> will be going to lions world within >> >>>> >>>>>> the next 5 or so >> months. I will be >> >>>> going for desktop support >> >>>> >>>>>> technician >> >>>> >>>>>> and then >> microsoft certified >> >>>> systems engineer program. >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> Josh >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing >> list >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list >> >>>> options or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change >> your list options >> >>>> or get your account info for >> >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or >> >>>> get your account info for >> >>>> >>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get >> >>>> your account info for >> >>>> >> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your >> >>>> account info for >> >>>> > nabs-l: >> >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your >> >>>> account info for nabs-l: >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 17:31:27 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:31:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world In-Reply-To: <4D56A6C4.5090407@gmail.com> References: <4D56A6C4.5090407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <92F1F2D9426D4176BF047D0EF43D89C3@OwnerPC> Josh, That is fine you want to move due to the small town you're in. Yet some of us live in or near cities and wouldn't want to relocate; lwsb shouldn't force that on everyone, in my opinion. Good luck where ever you live. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Josh Kennedy Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:27 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Hi But I don't really want to stay in my community. I want to move to a different one, a bigger one, more stuff going on. Reading is too small. There are no jobs. Even a lady at my church said if you can, move! Berks county is not the place for jobs you won't find them here, at least not in your area of interest. So with the help of voc rehab I'll when the time comes just move my family to, well, wherever I need to be to work and make a reasonably good income. and I'll just get on a plane or amtrack train and visit my family back in pennsylvania a few times a year. It will be very hard work yes I know but I think it will be so very rewarding. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 17:34:35 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:34:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <4D56A47D.20101@gmail.com> References: <4D56A47D.20101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9590CFBE3BA04A8B814E1C86C595EDCF@OwnerPC> There is no curphew, but there are quiet hours; that seems common curtesy to those asleep. Hope you like it there. I do encourage you to get your college degree afterward; if you want to advance in a career, a real I T degree will help a lot. Employers look upon degrees more than certifications. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Josh Kennedy Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:17 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Hi there is no kerfew at lions world. My friend mark is there now, he says so and I believe him. also my friend jason went there. he also recommended it to me. and my counselor is letting me go so hey I'm taking advantage of this opportunity because it may not be offered to me again. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 17:37:52 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:37:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world In-Reply-To: <4D56A30E.5040402@gmail.com> References: <4D56A30E.5040402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3F2FFF0F766647AA9D0EC01235727D49@OwnerPC> Josh, With respect, why are you repeating yourself? You sent several messages regarding the same subject to the list and some of it is repetitive. Couldn't you say most of the things you wanted in one post? If you are replying to different people, I understand multiple posts but this is general comments. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Josh Kennedy Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:11 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Hi No I will not stay away from lwsb. I am willing to relocate. I will take my wife and son to wherever my job will be. the rest of my family can stay behind in pennsylvania. I will fly back here to visit them a few times a year or when i can afford to do so. My wife and son are my immediate family and I will simply move them to where I will be working at. Besides why should I go to lcb? I already successfully graduated from the colorado center for the blind nfb. I want vocational training, not more independence training. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 17:58:42 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 12:58:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: <10D4AB70A8BB4C8F93BA1349DDAA8955@Rufus> References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> <10D4AB70A8BB4C8F93BA1349DDAA8955@Rufus> Message-ID: Were they only going on the subways, then? I wouldn't think that would give very accurate results. Some cities have no subway, but have a wonderful bus system. And some places don't need a subway system. Then again, there are places that desperately need it and won't admit it. I don't think I'm moving to Los Angeles or San Francisco just for their transportation, thoug. No thank you! On 2/12/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > Julie, > > Trust me. I live in DC and was surprised as well. My only guess is that > certain parts of the District are not serviced by the subway, but even in > these areas there is a sufficient number of trolleys, shuttles and city > buses. > > Dave, > > There was no #10. #9 was a tie. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From freespirit328 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 18:16:33 2011 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 13:16:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com><000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: The nurse at the Carrol Center is there to help you if you need help with your meds. Otherwise it is totally the student's responsibility. For example, if a student is a diabetic and doesn't know how to administer his/her insolin, the nurse will show you how and make sure you know what you're doing. After that, she is there if you have questions, but that's all. Jen ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products! www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative freespirit328 at gmail.com 401-644-5607 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > Brian, > Because some centers treat adults like children. > Adults at centers may not have the skills to live, but they are still > adults who can think and make decissions, and need to be treated as such. > I know nurses are at the carroll center. But I don't know what role they > play. > Do they administer meds to everyone, or just those who can't handle it yet > themselves? > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:00 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish > medications? > That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to babys in my > opinion! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. >> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, >> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his >> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or >> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how >> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I >> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills >> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only >> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but >> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Joshua, >>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I >>> told >>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to abide >>> by >>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>> certification; >>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get that training. >>> >>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to another training >>> center afterward? >>> >>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>> curphew >>> where you got to be in your room? >>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>> Someone >>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was mostly >>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify >>> their >>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and >>> cannot >>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have to relinquish >>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? >>> >>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>> program. >>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have >>> friends >>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. That is one of >>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights >>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was there. They >>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off >>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is >>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for >>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in >>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All >>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't >>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! >>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away from LWSB! >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions world within >>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support technician >>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 19:10:41 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 14:10:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <4D56DB31.2060404@gmail.com> Hi Ariel, I am going there for certifications, not independence training I already got that at colorado center. Yes I could go to a local school for the same kinds of certifications. But there's no garnatee I would succeed there. Example. this past month I had $0.00 no money at all because our heating bill was so high. Now if I had to go to school for certifications this means that I would be skipping a whole month of school because I have absolutely no money at all to pay for paratransit to get me to school and back again. Next month I may have $50 perhaps $100 and the next month I may only have $10 or so. It depends on how high the bills, rent is from month to month. I think lions world is the best option for me. My wife and son can stay here and keep things up and running then I'll have a place to come back to. If I do get a job I'm going to have to come back here for a little while so I can pack this place up and move my family to wherever it is I'll be working anyway. Yes I'll miss them but its a necessary sacrifice and I'm certainly willing to make that sacrifice if it means working and allowing my family as nice an income as I can provide for them. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 19:15:09 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 14:15:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <4D56DC3D.7010107@gmail.com> Hi As soon as I'm done with lions world I am going to continue with capella university and finnish up there and get my degree. Josh From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 19:22:13 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 13:22:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] finding a church In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601cbcaea$27b962d0$772c2870$@com> Brian, If you have constructive comments to offer, feel free to post, but criticizing Josh's personal decisions, which are truly none of your business, and letting us all know how annoying you find him certainly do not fall in this category. Please do not post irrelevant opinions about other people's personal lives or jabs at others on the list. Thanks, Sean From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat Feb 12 21:05:34 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:05:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone Message-ID: <1EAF680E-1A8D-4245-A45D-8B80CC649022@mac.com> Hi all: Just wondering, has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? If so, is it accessible with Voice Over? Or JAWS? I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. Thanks, Jorge From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 12 21:25:12 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:25:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <5329361F-5201-410A-B495-1036528B428C@mac.com> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> <5329361F-5201-410A-B495-1036528B428C@mac.com> Message-ID: Anything is possible but it will take some people with the will, know-how, and wherewithal to get it done. Dave >What about possibly doing something in NYC? > > >On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:54 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > > > It takes alot of time, and money, but it will be worth it. I'm not > > going to Rustin, LA, because I don't know of any Apostolic Pentecostal > > churches in that area. How far is Alexandria from there? Blessings, > > Joshua > > > > On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: > >> Do you have any idea what this would involv? RJs > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Joshua Lester" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >> > >> > >>> Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, > >>> (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new > >>> state president, and we'll raise money for this. > >>> Blessings, Joshua > >>> > >>> On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: > >>>> Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they > >>>> must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in > >>>> the NFB, started our own Centers. > >>>> > >>>> Dave > >>>> > >>>> At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: > >>>>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish > >>>>> medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down to > >>>>> babys in my opinion! > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" > >>>>> > >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm rooms. > >>>>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The > >>>>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate old, > >>>>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in his > >>>>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate or > >>>>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about how > >>>>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. I > >>>>>> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility skills > >>>>>> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I only > >>>>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some > >>>>>> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing but > >>>>>> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without > >>>>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed > >>>>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. > >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > >>>>>>> Joshua, > >>>>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to ACB; I > >>>>>>> told > >>>>>>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like to > >>>>>>> abide > >>>>>>> by > >>>>>>> such restrictions. It didn't work. > >>>>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a > >>>>>>> certification; > >>>>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get > that training. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to > another training > >>>>>>> center afterward? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a > >>>>>>> curphew > >>>>>>> where you got to be in your room? > >>>>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. > >>>>>>> Someone > >>>>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was > >>>>>>> mostly > >>>>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. > >>>>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot identify > >>>>>>> their > >>>>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print and > >>>>>>> cannot > >>>>>>> know what meds they have in what bottle! > >>>>>>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. > >>>>>>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have > to relinquish > >>>>>>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently yet? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the > >>>>>>> program. > >>>>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't have > >>>>>>> friends > >>>>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? > >>>>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ashley > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM > >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. > That is one of > >>>>>>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have "lights > >>>>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was > there. They > >>>>>>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it > >>>>>>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you off > >>>>>>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home state is > >>>>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, (for > >>>>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you in > >>>>>>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or > >>>>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. All > >>>>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I don't > >>>>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay away! > >>>>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away > from LWSB! > >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions > world within > >>>>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support > >>>>>>>> technician > >>>>>>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Josh From dandrews at visi.com Sat Feb 12 21:46:36 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 15:46:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Lions World et al Message-ID: There has been a discussion of Lions World, someone going there etc., on this list. Some of it has gotten personal -- which is inappropriate for any list. If you disagree with something or somebody, it is ok to discuss the facts, but not personal motivations, personal opinions and the like. Anyway, this topic has been discussed to death on this and other lists, so I politely ask everyone to drop it and move on. David Andrews, List Owner From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 12 22:17:58 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:17:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Message-ID: <9E9174F243AD4C3293F3E631F149B50C@OwnerPC> Hi all, I’m taking an online editing class. We’re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said “ The tests “involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I’m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can’t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don’t have names, at least I don’t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we’re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I’ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 22:19:14 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:19:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world References: <4D56A30E.5040402@gmail.com> <3F2FFF0F766647AA9D0EC01235727D49@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <000f01cbcb02$e3841b50$9560c747@BRIAN> I agree 100 percent with you Ashley! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re lions world > Josh, > With respect, why are you repeating yourself? You sent several messages > regarding the same subject to the list and some of it is repetitive. > Couldn't you say most of the things you wanted in one post? > If you are replying to different people, I understand multiple posts but > this is general comments. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Kennedy > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:11 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world > > Hi > > No I will not stay away from lwsb. I am willing to relocate. I will take > my wife and son to wherever my job will be. the rest of my family can > stay behind in pennsylvania. I will fly back here to visit them a few > times a year or when i can afford to do so. My wife and son are my > immediate family and I will simply move them to where I will be working > at. Besides why should I go to lcb? I already successfully graduated > from the colorado center for the blind nfb. I want vocational training, > not more independence training. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 22:27:15 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:27:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world References: <4D56DB31.2060404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001901cbcb04$01f8ee70$9560c747@BRIAN> What would you do if your wife while you were away met a sighted person in Philadelphia and got her "needs met" You know scenarios like this can happen if couples are apart for lengthie periods of time! I hope she is faithful enough to be strong while you are away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:10 PM Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world > Hi Ariel, > > I am going there for certifications, not independence training I already > got that at colorado center. Yes I could go to a local school for the same > kinds of certifications. But there's no garnatee I would succeed there. > Example. this past month I had $0.00 no money at all because our heating > bill was so high. Now if I had to go to school for certifications this > means that I would be skipping a whole month of school because I have > absolutely no money at all to pay for paratransit to get me to school and > back again. Next month I may have $50 perhaps $100 and the next month I > may only have $10 or so. It depends on how high the bills, rent is from > month to month. I think lions world is the best option for me. My wife and > son can stay here and keep things up and running then I'll have a place to > come back to. If I do get a job I'm going to have to come back here for a > little while so I can pack this place up and move my family to wherever it > is I'll be working anyway. Yes I'll miss them but its a necessary > sacrifice and I'm certainly willing to make that sacrifice if it means > working and allowing my family as nice an income as I can provide for > them. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 22:29:09 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:29:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] finding a church References: <001601cbcaea$27b962d0$772c2870$@com> Message-ID: <001f01cbcb04$45cf43b0$9560c747@BRIAN> Sorry Sean I just worry about Josh being gone like that. I will be kinder out hear I promise! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Whalen" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] finding a church > Brian, > > If you have constructive comments to offer, feel free to post, but > criticizing Josh's personal decisions, which are truly none of your > business, and letting us all know how annoying you find him certainly do > not > fall in this category. Please do not post irrelevant opinions about other > people's personal lives or jabs at others on the list. > > Thanks, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sat Feb 12 22:31:41 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:31:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> <5329361F-5201-410A-B495-1036528B428C@mac.com> Message-ID: <002301cbcb04$a0986240$9560c747@BRIAN> We can do it don't forget at the NFB we have a "can do attitude" ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > Anything is possible but it will take some people with the will, know-how, > and wherewithal to get it done. > > Dave > > >>What about possibly doing something in NYC? >> >> >>On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:54 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >> > It takes alot of time, and money, but it will be worth it. I'm not >> > going to Rustin, LA, because I don't know of any Apostolic Pentecostal >> > churches in that area. How far is Alexandria from there? Blessings, >> > Joshua >> > >> > On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> >> Do you have any idea what this would involv? RJs >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >> >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> >> >> >> >>> Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, >> >>> (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new >> >>> state president, and we'll raise money for this. >> >>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>> >> >>> On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: >> >>>> Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they >> >>>> must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in >> >>>> the NFB, started our own Centers. >> >>>> >> >>>> Dave >> >>>> >> >>>> At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >> >>>>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >> >>>>> medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> babys in my opinion! >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm >> >>>>>> rooms. >> >>>>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >> >>>>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate >> >>>>>> old, >> >>>>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in >> >>>>>> his >> >>>>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate >> >>>>>> or >> >>>>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about >> >>>>>> how >> >>>>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. >> >>>>>> I >> >>>>>> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility >> >>>>>> skills >> >>>>>> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I >> >>>>>> only >> >>>>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >> >>>>>> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing >> >>>>>> but >> >>>>>> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >> >>>>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >> >>>>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >> >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >> >>>>>>> Joshua, >> >>>>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to >> >>>>>>> ACB; I >> >>>>>>> told >> >>>>>>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like >> >>>>>>> to >> >>>>>>> abide >> >>>>>>> by >> >>>>>>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >> >>>>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >> >>>>>>> certification; >> >>>>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get >> that training. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to >> another training >> >>>>>>> center afterward? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >> >>>>>>> curphew >> >>>>>>> where you got to be in your room? >> >>>>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >> >>>>>>> Someone >> >>>>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >> >>>>>>> mostly >> >>>>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >> >>>>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot >> >>>>>>> identify >> >>>>>>> their >> >>>>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print >> >>>>>>> and >> >>>>>>> cannot >> >>>>>>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >> >>>>>>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >> >>>>>>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have >> to relinquish >> >>>>>>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently >> >>>>>>> yet? >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >> >>>>>>> program. >> >>>>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't >> >>>>>>> have >> >>>>>>> friends >> >>>>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >> >>>>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Ashley >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >> >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. >> That is one of >> >>>>>>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have >> >>>>>>> "lights >> >>>>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was >> there. They >> >>>>>>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >> >>>>>>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you >> >>>>>>> off >> >>>>>>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home >> >>>>>>> state is >> >>>>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, >> >>>>>>> (for >> >>>>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you >> >>>>>>> in >> >>>>>>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >> >>>>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. >> >>>>>>> All >> >>>>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I >> >>>>>>> don't >> >>>>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay >> >>>>>>> away! >> >>>>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away >> from LWSB! >> >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> >>>>>>>> Hi >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions >> world within >> >>>>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >> >>>>>>>> technician >> >>>>>>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From lriddle at cocenter.org Sat Feb 12 22:46:17 2011 From: lriddle at cocenter.org (Lorinda Riddle) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:46:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] The NFBCO of Colorado request for Scholarship Applicants for the 2011 Scholarship Program Message-ID: Dear Federationists, Friends, and Financial Aid Advisors, The National Federation of the Blind of Colorado is seeking scholarship applicants for the 2011Scholarship program. The Scholarship application is attached along with a fact sheet and a flyer. Please distribute wherever possible. Prior winners are encouraged to apply again. The application deadline for the NFBCO Scholarship is April 15, 2011. For additional information about the scholarship program, contact Buna Dahal, NFBCO Scholarship Committee Chairperson, at 303-758-1232 or email her at bunadahal at dynamicbuna.com. After March 8 contact Lorinda Riddle at 303-778-1130, extension 236 or email her at lriddle at cocenter.org. Lorinda Ann Riddle Coordinator of Special Projects National Federation of the Blind of Colorado (NFBCO) 2233 W. Shepperd Avenue Littleton, CO 80120 W: 303-778-1130, extension 236 C: 720-384-5871 lriddle at cocenter.org www.nfbco.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 Scholarship Fact Sheet.doc Type: application/msword Size: 96768 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 Application Form.doc Type: application/msword Size: 96768 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 SCHOLARFLYER.doc Type: application/msword Size: 89088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 23:11:52 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:11:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212231152.29972.99137@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> No they had air conditioning in the rooms. there were vents in there. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 23:13:36 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:13:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212231336.30044.72217@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Nol. the requirement is that a person needs to be willing to relocate after training. There's a big difference. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 23:10:39 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:10:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212231039.7847.40451@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> I went to lcb first. Of course you can do what ever you want after classes at loins world. People use to doit all the time. Most centers I know about treat youlike adults. What else would they do and how else would they treat you? Each center has thie own stuff they do and if you don't like it don't go. If you go and find out you don't like it then leave. its simple. Most of the time we can't change what centers do so what's the point in us trhing to do it. Like I say if you go to a center and you don't like it be it you don't like how you're treated or what ever then just simply leave. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 23:18:18 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:18:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212231818.29857.58740@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> You only go to a training center for 6 to 9 months. So you don't find a church its not like you're there forever. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 23:18:47 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:18:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212231847.30049.4203@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Jerry was my advisor. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 23:15:59 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:15:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <20110212231559.7686.43111@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> yea that will be interresting. We start our own training center. I'm sure lions world and everybody else will yell about that one. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computerguy125 at samobile.net Sat Feb 12 23:22:54 2011 From: computerguy125 at samobile.net (Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:22:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <20110212232254.29857.768@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Oh I'm a student at cvapella as well. Do you know Jackie Dutel? -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 23:22:57 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:22:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] rosetta stone Message-ID: <4D571651.9030700@gmail.com> Hi yes I'm interested in this as well. I have a mac with voiceover. But if I need to I suppose I could use it with the windows side of things. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 23:29:43 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:29:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> hi brian, in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out to both her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for divorce. Josh From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 23:33:03 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:33:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <20110212231559.7686.43111@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> References: <20110212231559.7686.43111@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Noone seems to be saying anything about this. I've noticed something over at LWSB. I know Mr. Andrews is tired of seeing this thread, and I don't blame him. I'm going to say this, and then, we'll drop it. I have noticed that the ACB, (yes! the American Council of the Blind,) is one of the biggest sponsors of LWSB. It's no secret, that the CCB, (California Council, of the Blind,) sent one of their members to LWSB. I was supportive of the Council's fight for accessible currency, but I've recently found, that the NFB is the way to go. I love what we, (the NFB,) stand for. I wouldn't want any of us going where the ACB is getting all of the respect. Let's drop it now. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. wrote: > yea that will be interresting. We start our own training center. I'm > sure lions world and everybody else will yell about that one. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 23:38:28 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:38:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: <10D4AB70A8BB4C8F93BA1349DDAA8955@Rufus> References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> <10D4AB70A8BB4C8F93BA1349DDAA8955@Rufus> Message-ID: Very interesting list. As someone who has lived in Baltimore, Dallas, and Austin, and now Philly. I am seriously surprised that Philly is not on that list. We have the buses, the regional rail, the subway the L, paratransit, and I can't forget about the trolleys. M -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:53 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation Julie, Trust me. I live in DC and was surprised as well. My only guess is that certain parts of the District are not serviced by the subway, but even in these areas there is a sufficient number of trolleys, shuttles and city buses. Dave, There was no #10. #9 was a tie. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 23:44:17 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:44:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> Message-ID: Josh, I'd like to give you some information. They, (Lwsb,) have an apartment, where a husband and wife can stay together. I knew a couple that was there. They may let you and your family have that apartment, if you ask for it. I'll back down, knowing that you're wife is sighted. I just don't want to be blind, by myself in a town and a state where I don't know anyone. I don't want to be offensive, and I appologize if anything I've said against LWSB, has offended you. I don't want anything to sound too personal, and I don't want to sound like I'm in attack-mode all the time. I've just experienced too much there, and every time I hear LWSB, I get the same old feer over and over again. What scared me the most, was one night next door, I heard guns going off. I don't remember hearing a policecar anywhere. Little Rock is the most violent town in Arkansas. It's terrible. Last year, they had the highest record for murders in Arkansas. All I can say, is be careful. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > hi brian, > > in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading > or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would > forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out > to both her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry > by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I > would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as > possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to > her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. > I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and > move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for > children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a > mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she > did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I > don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for divorce. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From nabs.president at gmail.com Sat Feb 12 23:51:38 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 16:51:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to think about posting things that make our list and our organization look like a place that people would want to go to get information about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be future members of our organization. Respectfully, Arielle Silverman, President National Association of blind Students On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > hi brian, > > in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading > or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would > forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out > to both her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry > by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I > would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as > possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to > her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. > I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and > move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for > children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a > mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she > did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I > don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for divorce. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 12 23:53:56 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:53:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <20110212231039.7847.40451@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> References: <20110212231039.7847.40451@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Dave, that's exactly right, and that's what I did. I left after 4 weeks, and didn't continue. I was treated well by the instructors, and the majority of the trainees, but they need to make some changes, as I've mentioned. Also, anyone can E-mail me off list. Let's move this off list, I'm tired of seeing this. I have a question, and if anyone knows, please, again, contact me off list. Whatever happened to them working on a new building, and having it ready by 2012? Maybe, once they've taken care of that, there will be some changes. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Dave. I lost my cookie at the disco. wrote: > I went to lcb first. Of course you can do what ever you want after > classes at loins world. People use to doit all the time. Most centers > I know about treat youlike adults. What else would they do and how > else would they treat you? Each center has thie own stuff they do and > if you don't like it don't go. If you go and find out you don't like > it then leave. its simple. Most of the time we can't change what > centers do so what's the point in us trhing to do it. Like I say if > you go to a center and you don't like it be it you don't like how > you're treated or what ever then just simply leave. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 00:02:11 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:02:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite > a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise > you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS > list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would > urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly > in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's > inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. > Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for > NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to > think about posting things that make our list and our organization > look like a place that people would want to go to get information > about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful > content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be > future members of our organization. > > Respectfully, > Arielle Silverman, President > National Association of blind Students > > On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> hi brian, >> >> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading >> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out >> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry >> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to >> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. >> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she >> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for divorce. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 00:20:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:20:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas In-Reply-To: References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was prison more of a metaphor? A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read or hear for ourselves. This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite > a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise > you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS > list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would > urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly > in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's > inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. > Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for > NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to > think about posting things that make our list and our organization > look like a place that people would want to go to get information > about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful > content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be > future members of our organization. > > Respectfully, > Arielle Silverman, President > National Association of blind Students > > On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> hi brian, >> >> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading >> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out >> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry >> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to >> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. >> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she >> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >> divorce. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 00:26:06 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:26:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas In-Reply-To: References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi, > Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in Dalas > and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? > What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was > prison more of a metaphor? > A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read or > hear for ourselves. > This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to > stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the > prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like > the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >> future members of our organization. >> >> Respectfully, >> Arielle Silverman, President >> National Association of blind Students >> >> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> hi brian, >>> >>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading >>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out >>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry >>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to >>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. >>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she >>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>> divorce. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 00:27:38 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:27:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001101cbcb14$d2c01820$9560c747@BRIAN> Some people do this if their spouse is away for a long period I hope she keeps her faithfulness to you while you are away! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] lions world > hi brian, > > in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading or > philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would forgive > her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out to both > her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry by doing > this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I would next > encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as possible. I would > forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do > that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would recommend > marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and move on. Besides all > the research shows that divorce is bad for children. My priority is to > keep my family together. If she makes a mistake she makes a mistake. I > would dialog with her to find out why she did such a thing. Most people > would divorce their wives, I would not. I don't find cheating on one's > spouse to be a sufficient reason for divorce. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 13 00:28:38 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:28:38 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Needing Text Pal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nicole, You are right. When I mentioned converting PDF documents, I meant ones that are accessible. I am sure you know more than I do, but I don't think inaccessible PDF's will convert to text either. Since JAWS recognizes these PDF's as pictures, essentially, it won't recognize the text in any other format. JAWS still "sees" it as a picture. If I have no other option, I print out inaccessible PDF's and rescan them. Usually this works, though not always. I, too, don't like converting PDF's into text files. I only do this when I need to mark passages frequently. Even when sighted, I never understood the advantage of PDF's over Word. Bridgit Message: 3 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 22:23:40 -0800 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Needing text pal Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original A few words of caution: Not all PDF's can be saved as text. This is only possible if the PDF is made a certain way. As a matter of fact, it has been my experience that, if Jaws cannot read the PDF in Adobe Acrobat, then you cannot save it as text. Even if a PDF can be saved as text, it is not always the best way. This tends to insert linebreaks where there are not any visually and leaves out any blank lines. Finally, I have come across PDF's that could be saved as text, but what the text said had no resemblance to what was actually written. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:05 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Needing text pal > Ashley, > > When I said Word, I meant Adobe Acrobat. I am having one of those > days. PDF's open up through Adobe, and through Adobe, you can convert > into text files. It is quick and easy to do. Most computers have > Adobe Acrobat on them. > > All you have to do is go to the File menu then go to Save As Text. > > If it is not on your computer, you should be able to install it. > > Bridgit From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 00:34:42 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:34:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] personal information In-Reply-To: <001101cbcb14$d2c01820$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <001101cbcb14$d2c01820$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Hi Brian and all, Can we keep personal comments like spouses off list please? Npow back on topic to discuss blindness stuff. Thanks. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:27 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world Some people do this if their spouse is away for a long period I hope she keeps her faithfulness to you while you are away! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:29 PM Subject: [nabs-l] lions world > hi brian, > > in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading or > philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would forgive > her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out to both > her and the person she was with that they are committing adultry by doing > this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I would next > encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as possible. I would > forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do > that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would recommend > marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and move on. Besides all > the research shows that divorce is bad for children. My priority is to > keep my family together. If she makes a mistake she makes a mistake. I > would dialog with her to find out why she did such a thing. Most people > would divorce their wives, I would not. I don't find cheating on one's > spouse to be a sufficient reason for divorce. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 00:47:45 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:47:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] math and science resources Message-ID: Hi all, I’m doing some advocacy for resources to benefit blind and Visually impaired students, vi, at the community college campus. They do have some models for biology. But blind students are at a disadvantage in not seeing the visuals in lectures. The college provides scribes who will sit with you and describe/read things already and take notes; you don’t have to have one; but its there if needed. So I suppose they could describe the specimens and things seen in labs. But I’m wondering what they can do for equal access? Readers need to be qualified for one thing to read tests; they need to know how to pronounce names of things. What else? My questions are: 1. What accomodations did you get in these classes? 2. What resources should a college have to provide access? I am thinking matterials to make tactile drawings. APH has an atonomy book that may be of us as well. Are there already tactile graphics out there that one can print on an embosser? If there is a list of science resources I can give them let me know. Thanks. Ashley From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 00:50:58 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:50:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Hi all, I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high winds? Arielle From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 00:52:07 2011 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:52:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <002301cbcb04$a0986240$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D55A02D.3040502@gmail.com> <000f01cbca47$ddd0ab80$9560c747@BRIAN> <7FD953B49B7A46AD823A377220E8D950@hometwxakonvzn> <5329361F-5201-410A-B495-1036528B428C@mac.com> <002301cbcb04$a0986240$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: They are emailing the menuf or the week one week ahead of time. Anyway ... On 12/02/2011, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > We can do it don't forget at the NFB we have a "can do attitude" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Andrews" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 4:25 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > > >> Anything is possible but it will take some people with the will, know-how, >> >> and wherewithal to get it done. >> >> Dave >> >> >>>What about possibly doing something in NYC? >>> >>> >>>On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:54 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> >>> > It takes alot of time, and money, but it will be worth it. I'm not >>> > going to Rustin, LA, because I don't know of any Apostolic Pentecostal >>> > churches in that area. How far is Alexandria from there? Blessings, >>> > Joshua >>> > >>> > On 2/11/11, RJ Sandefur wrote: >>> >> Do you have any idea what this would involv? RJs >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> >>> >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> Mr. Andrews, there are plenty of blind people in Arkansas, for us, >>> >>> (the NFB,) to start a center. What's the holdup? I'll E-mail our new >>> >>> state president, and we'll raise money for this. >>> >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2/11/11, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>> Because they view us as blind persons as being very limited and they >>> >>>> must take care of and watch out for us. This is in part why we, in >>> >>>> the NFB, started our own Centers. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Dave >>> >>>> >>> >>>> At 06:00 PM 2/11/2011, you wrote: >>> >>>>> Why did Lyons World have a curfew and make everyone relinquish >>> >>>>> medications? That is dumbing really independent blind adults down >>> >>>>> to >>> >>>>> babys in my opinion! >>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:36 PM >>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> lolololol! The food is horible! It's always warm in the dorm >>> >>>>>> rooms. >>> >>>>>> Yes, there's a curfue. Everyone has to relinquish their meds. The >>> >>>>>> piano in the salarium, (I'm a musician,) is out of tune. I hate >>> >>>>>> old, >>> >>>>>> out-of-tune pianos! Someone kept breaking the rules. He smoked in >>> >>>>>> his >>> >>>>>> dorm room. I didn't have a choice on whether I wanted a room mate >>> >>>>>> or >>> >>>>>> not. I couldn't stand him, because he was always bragging about >>> >>>>>> how >>> >>>>>> much alcohol he could consume. I went for an evaluation, in 2007. >>> >>>>>> I >>> >>>>>> haven't attended a training center. I've received the mobility >>> >>>>>> skills >>> >>>>>> in school, and received my endependent living skills at LWSB. I >>> >>>>>> only >>> >>>>>> stayed 4 weeks. That's hw long an evaluation lasts. I made some >>> >>>>>> friends, but some of them, (including my room mate,) were nothing >>> >>>>>> but >>> >>>>>> trouble. There are other places where he can get training without >>> >>>>>> going to that place. O yeah, and too many of the trainees, allowed >>> >>>>>> their guide dogs to run loose. I'm allergic to dogs. >>> >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Joshua, >>> >>>>>>> I told Josh that on the other nabs list, the one belonging to >>> >>>>>>> ACB; I >>> >>>>>>> told >>> >>>>>>> him to think through it, think about the rules and if he'd like >>> >>>>>>> to >>> >>>>>>> abide >>> >>>>>>> by >>> >>>>>>> such restrictions. It didn't work. >>> >>>>>>> Josh has already been to a nfb center; now he wants to get a >>> >>>>>>> certification; >>> >>>>>>> so perhaps he's willing to stay confined at LWSB to get >>> that training. >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> Joshua, what program did you attend and did you go to >>> another training >>> >>>>>>> center afterward? >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> But do they really have a lights out rule? Do they really have a >>> >>>>>>> curphew >>> >>>>>>> where you got to be in your room? >>> >>>>>>> I know they got dorms and roommates. They don't have apartments. >>> >>>>>>> Someone >>> >>>>>>> told me from Nabs ACB list that the food was not too good; it was >>> >>>>>>> mostly >>> >>>>>>> fried food which is very unhealthy. >>> >>>>>>> As to nurses, I can understand that if a blind person cannot >>> >>>>>>> identify >>> >>>>>>> their >>> >>>>>>> meds; I mean some newly blind people cannot read braille or print >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>> cannot >>> >>>>>>> know what meds they have in what bottle! >>> >>>>>>> But some blind people have the skills already to take their meds. >>> >>>>>>> However, is this an individual thing? Does everyone have >>> to relinquish >>> >>>>>>> their meds, or just the ones who cannot take it independently >>> >>>>>>> yet? >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On their website it says you have to agree to relocate after the >>> >>>>>>> program. >>> >>>>>>> That sounds terrible for the reasons you stated. If you don't >>> >>>>>>> have >>> >>>>>>> friends >>> >>>>>>> or family down in say Georga, then why move there? >>> >>>>>>> Maybe so LWSB doesn't hear from you again. >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 4:04 PM >>> >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> In Little Rock, Arkansas? I attended there for 4 weeks. >>> That is one of >>> >>>>>>> those centers like the one Tara was talking about. They have >>> >>>>>>> "lights >>> >>>>>>> out," "nurses controling meds," etc. I know, because I was >>> there. They >>> >>>>>>> thought that every blind person needed counseling. They called it >>> >>>>>>> assertiveness training. The whole thing is a scam! They ship you >>> >>>>>>> off >>> >>>>>>> to another state once you've graduated. Let's say, your home >>> >>>>>>> state is >>> >>>>>>> Arkansas, (because that's mine.) You go through the IRS program, >>> >>>>>>> (for >>> >>>>>>> example.) Once you've graduated, (since there are no jobs for you >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> in >>> >>>>>>> that field, they'll ship you to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, or >>> >>>>>>> somewhere else, without your consent. I want to stay in Arkansas. >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> All >>> >>>>>>> of my family is here. You think I'm going to a state where I >>> >>>>>>> don't >>> >>>>>>> know anyone from Adam? Nope! That's all LWSB is good for. Stay >>> >>>>>>> away! >>> >>>>>>> Go to LCB, if you want that kind of training, but stay away >>> from LWSB! >>> >>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On 2/11/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Hi >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I want to let you guys know that I will be going to lions >>> world within >>> >>>>>>>> the next 5 or so months. I will be going for desktop support >>> >>>>>>>> technician >>> >>>>>>>> and then microsoft certified systems engineer program. >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Josh >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 00:58:18 2011 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:58:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arielle, I used to do it with a cane all the time. I now do it with a dog. It is a little bit easier with a dog. Most states require people to shovel their sidewalks, but that doesn't mean it's done. Also, public sidewalks are the last to be cleared, if at all. Most snow that is plowed from the streets is moved to the side of the street or to the curb. Keeping that in mind, try to always be visible by wearing something reflective. This is for other cars driving who can barely see. Walk on the left side of the road against traffic. If you can't walk on the sidewalk, walk as close as possible to the edge. Always square off and make sure you know what direction you're crossing when you cross a street. Make sure that you are swinging your cane in wide arcs as it will hopefully keep you aligned and keep you going in a straight line most of the time. And if at all possible, don't wear a hat as this will serve to muffle your ears. I know that you probably should because of the cold, but try to avoid it if at all possible. Oh, and they have these things that you can get to stick on the bottom of your shoes that help out with ice. If you can't find them, then use your cane as a balancing device. thanks Nimer J On 12/02/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually > cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for > cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have > found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or > high winds? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Feb 13 01:02:49 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:02:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0359B336-7E6B-4E86-B618-0854A2A28124@mac.com> I agree. I never wear any kind of hat or anything either when I'm doing independent travel, I find it would completely mess my auditory ques up. Jorge On Feb 12, 2011, at 7:50 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually > cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for > cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have > found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or > high winds? > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 13 01:10:40 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:10:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, I am an editor, and I also have assignments in class where we use universal symbols for copy editing. I am a creative writing major with a minor in public relations so I am familiar with this issue. There are two ways you can approach this. 1. create your own way to mark errors. I use JAWS and have done this for my classes for creative writing and public relations classes. Since I can not independently make these marks, and JAWS can not either, my instructors have allowed me to make corrections in a way that is accessible. My instructors have also applied this for corrections on my writing. For example: We may go too (to) the festivel (festival) after picking Jake up (comma) but him (he) may not have muney (money). In copy editing, there are specific symbols used for corrections, but I have used the same paranthetical corrections, as demonstrated above, for PR writing too. 2. Use a reader/scribe for your test. They can read the test (though you will need a copy I suppose to point out the errors). Use whatever method you are comfortable with so you can read the test too, and Indicate what is to be corrected then have them draw the necessary symbol. You will be telling them exactly what to do, and there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do this. Bridgit Message: 8 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:17:58 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Message-ID: <9E9174F243AD4C3293F3E631F149B50C at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, I?m taking an online editing class. We?re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said ? The tests ?involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I?m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can?t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don?t have names, at least I don?t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we?re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I?ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett From jj at bestmidi.com Sun Feb 13 01:13:48 2011 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:13:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> Message-ID: <1AF9C055B2B5423786C85FA165D3D28C@jage> The list puzzles me a bit. Los Angeles, but not Chicago? I wonder how they gathered their data. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" ; ; "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:18 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation > US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 cities > with > the best public transit. You can search the site for the article to read > more about each entry, but note that the presentation is an online > slideshow. > > Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver > #8 Honolulu > #7 Los Angeles > #6 San Francisco > #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul > #4 Boston > #3 New York City > #2 Salt Lake City > #1 Portland > > Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 01:15:52 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Hi all, I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high winds? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Feb 13 01:17:18 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 19:17:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world In-Reply-To: <001901cbcb04$01f8ee70$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D56DB31.2060404@gmail.com> <001901cbcb04$01f8ee70$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Brian: This is really none of your business and not appropriate, so cut it out. David Andrews, List Owner At 04:27 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote: >What would you do if your wife while you were away met a sighted >person in Philadelphia and got her "needs met" You know scenarios >like this can happen if couples are apart for lengthie periods of >time! I hope she is faithful enough to be strong while you are away. >----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:10 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world > > >>Hi Ariel, >> >>I am going there for certifications, not independence training I >>already got that at colorado center. Yes I could go to a local >>school for the same kinds of certifications. But there's no >>garnatee I would succeed there. Example. this past month I had >>$0.00 no money at all because our heating bill was so high. Now if >>I had to go to school for certifications this means that I would be >>skipping a whole month of school because I have absolutely no money >>at all to pay for paratransit to get me to school and back again. >>Next month I may have $50 perhaps $100 and the next month I may >>only have $10 or so. It depends on how high the bills, rent is from >>month to month. I think lions world is the best option for me. My >>wife and son can stay here and keep things up and running then I'll >>have a place to come back to. If I do get a job I'm going to have >>to come back here for a little while so I can pack this place up >>and move my family to wherever it is I'll be working anyway. Yes >>I'll miss them but its a necessary sacrifice and I'm certainly >>willing to make that sacrifice if it means working and allowing my >>family as nice an income as I can provide for them. >> >>Josh >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > From nfbnj at yahoo.com Sun Feb 13 02:18:46 2011 From: nfbnj at yahoo.com (Joe Ruffalo) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:18:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Thru Our Eyes, next interview, Wednesday, March 16, 8:00 pm eastern Message-ID: On Wednesday, February 16, at 8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our Eyes host, Joe Ruffalo will interview Carl Jacobson, president of the New York affiliate and a national board member and Jesse Hartle, Government program Specialist at the National Center for the Blind. This informative interview will highlight Carl's involvement in the organization, his beliefs and philosophy to change what it means to be blind. Jesse will feature issues presented recently at the Washington Seminar. He will discuss the importance for all to get involved to promote and pass legislation. To watch and listen, visit: www.thruoureyes.org or for JAWS and mobile phone users, please visit: m.thruoureyes.org To call with your questions and or comments, please call: 1 888 572 0141 Save the Date The next Thru Our Eyes interview with Joe Ruffalo is scheduled for Wednesday, March 16 at 8:00 pm. eastern. Joe will interview Parnell Diggs, chairperson of the Imagination Fund and the Race for Independence. Discussion will feature the procedure to register, techniques and methods to make the ask and the importance to make a difference. In addition, the Rolex 24 and the blind driver challenge will be highlighted. Several Imagination Fund grants awarded this past year will be featured. Remember: When we all do, it becomes doable. The more we try, the more we succeed. Everything is impossible until you do it. Keep believing. Keep dreaming. Keep learning Let's work together. Let's make a difference! Joseph J. Ruffalo President, National Federation of the Blind of New Jersey Phone: 973-743-0075 Please visit our State and National Web Sites http://www.nfbnj.org http://www.thruoureyes.org http://www.blindchildren.org http://www.nfb.org Email: nfbnj at yahoo.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 02:21:02 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:21:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2EE083F5152A485E86F9D4CFE302B042@OwnerPC> Marsha, When landmarks are covered its hard. Just do the best you can. In snow, the snow is heavier on grass. I use that edge as a shoreline. I can't hear echos as well in the wind and snow. I have vision too so look for buildings; but also listen for other cues like opening doors or a heat vent noise. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:15 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Hi all, I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high winds? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 02:25:57 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:25:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Yes I mean the copy editing symbols that editors use. They are standard; I can use a reader for tests, but how will I tell them what symbol to write? I don't know if they have names. Also I have to have it in braille to see commas, other punctuation and spelling. I hope my professor lets me braille the article for copy editing at home before the test. My school does not provide braille for tests nor do they have up dated technology. This wouldn't be such an issue if they could emboss tests. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:10 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Ashley, I am an editor, and I also have assignments in class where we use universal symbols for copy editing. I am a creative writing major with a minor in public relations so I am familiar with this issue. There are two ways you can approach this. 1. create your own way to mark errors. I use JAWS and have done this for my classes for creative writing and public relations classes. Since I can not independently make these marks, and JAWS can not either, my instructors have allowed me to make corrections in a way that is accessible. My instructors have also applied this for corrections on my writing. For example: We may go too (to) the festivel (festival) after picking Jake up (comma) but him (he) may not have muney (money). In copy editing, there are specific symbols used for corrections, but I have used the same paranthetical corrections, as demonstrated above, for PR writing too. 2. Use a reader/scribe for your test. They can read the test (though you will need a copy I suppose to point out the errors). Use whatever method you are comfortable with so you can read the test too, and Indicate what is to be corrected then have them draw the necessary symbol. You will be telling them exactly what to do, and there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do this. Bridgit Message: 8 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:17:58 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Message-ID: <9E9174F243AD4C3293F3E631F149B50C at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, I?m taking an online editing class. We?re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said ? The tests ?involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I?m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can?t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don?t have names, at least I don?t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we?re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I?ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Sun Feb 13 04:04:37 2011 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 22:04:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Marcia, Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used to winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure it is difficult for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it doesn't seem appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you were not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will always be easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel challenges as something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find people who will be supportive. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: >Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the >northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing >wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best >mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be >disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on >the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic >here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess >it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, >it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might >say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to >go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. >Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to >judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I >will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to >say about this. >This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >Marsha > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Arielle Silverman >Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >Hi all, >I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >high winds? >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >l.com > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 5868 (20110212) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 5868 (20110212) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 04:10:40 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:10:40 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: <1AF9C055B2B5423786C85FA165D3D28C@jage> References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> <1AF9C055B2B5423786C85FA165D3D28C@jage> Message-ID: I am very curious as to how they put this list together. I like Portland's system quite a bit, and Denver's is pretty solid considering how far-reaching it is. alot of these systems differ from san francisco in that if you are looking at SF proper's transportation system, it only serves San Francisco and maybe a few parts outside of it. There is certainly a system of transit agencies thatwhen counted, servefromBErkleyto San Jose, and points between. You can even get to both San Francisco and Oakland's airports via public trans. L.A. is notoriously suspect. I do have to call into question the Methodology of this list. Now, I can have a problem with this "scientific study" *smile* Darian On 2/12/11, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: > The list puzzles me a bit. Los Angeles, but not Chicago? > I wonder how they gathered their data. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" > ; ; "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:18 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation > > >> US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 cities >> with >> the best public transit. You can search the site for the article to read >> more about each entry, but note that the presentation is an online >> slideshow. >> >> Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver >> #8 Honolulu >> #7 Los Angeles >> #6 San Francisco >> #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul >> #4 Boston >> #3 New York City >> #2 Salt Lake City >> #1 Portland >> >> Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From jesusfreak262 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 04:55:25 2011 From: jesusfreak262 at gmail.com (Bre B) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:55:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone In-Reply-To: <1EAF680E-1A8D-4245-A45D-8B80CC649022@mac.com> References: <1EAF680E-1A8D-4245-A45D-8B80CC649022@mac.com> Message-ID: <4D57643D.8090800@gmail.com> On 2/12/2011 4:05 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi all: > Just wondering, > has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? > If so, > is it accessible with Voice Over? > > Or JAWS? > > I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, > but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. > > Thanks, > > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jesusfreak262%40gmail.com Ah Yes, I have been wondering about the accessibility of Roseta Stone. I have jaws, but I am planning to get a mac at some point. Bre From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 05:08:33 2011 From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:08:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder--Community service call tomorrow! Message-ID: Hi everyone. Just a reminder that there is a community service call tomorrow. We will be hearing from an awesome guest speaker. I tpromises to be a great call. Here is the call in information again phone number: (218) 339-3600 passcode 808277. From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 05:10:16 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:10:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for > his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi, >> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >> Dalas >> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >> prison more of a metaphor? >> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >> or >> hear for ourselves. >> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>> future members of our organization. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Arielle Silverman, President >>> National Association of blind Students >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> hi brian, >>>> >>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading >>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out >>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>> adultry >>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to >>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. >>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>> she >>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>> divorce. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 05:14:59 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:14:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world References: <4D56DB31.2060404@gmail.com> <001901cbcb04$01f8ee70$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <003f01cbcb3c$f798be90$9560c747@BRIAN> I will David. Have a happy Valentines Weekend. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re lions world > Brian: This is really none of your business and not appropriate, so cut > it out. > > David Andrews, List Owner > > At 04:27 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote: >>What would you do if your wife while you were away met a sighted person in >>Philadelphia and got her "needs met" You know scenarios like this can >>happen if couples are apart for lengthie periods of time! I hope she is >>faithful enough to be strong while you are away. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:10 PM >>Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world >> >> >>>Hi Ariel, >>> >>>I am going there for certifications, not independence training I already >>>got that at colorado center. Yes I could go to a local school for the >>>same kinds of certifications. But there's no garnatee I would succeed >>>there. Example. this past month I had $0.00 no money at all because our >>>heating bill was so high. Now if I had to go to school for certifications >>>this means that I would be skipping a whole month of school because I >>>have absolutely no money at all to pay for paratransit to get me to >>>school and back again. Next month I may have $50 perhaps $100 and the >>>next month I may only have $10 or so. It depends on how high the bills, >>>rent is from month to month. I think lions world is the best option for >>>me. My wife and son can stay here and keep things up and running then >>>I'll have a place to come back to. If I do get a job I'm going to have to >>>come back here for a little while so I can pack this place up and move my >>>family to wherever it is I'll be working anyway. Yes I'll miss them but >>>its a necessary sacrifice and I'm certainly willing to make that >>>sacrifice if it means working and allowing my family as nice an income as >>>I can provide for them. >>> >>>Josh >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 05:15:04 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:15:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas In-Reply-To: <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>> Dalas >>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >>> prison more of a metaphor? >>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >>> >>> or >>> hear for ourselves. >>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>> future members of our organization. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>> National Association of blind Students >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>> hi brian, >>>>> >>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading >>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out >>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>> adultry >>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to >>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. >>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>> she >>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>> divorce. >>>>> >>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 05:17:09 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:17:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais In-Reply-To: <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <91AD7CE8123B4B2E8C3C0E36E20BFE42@OwnerPC> I hear it was a good one; it would be great if there was a transcript available. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:10 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for > his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi, >> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >> Dalas >> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >> prison more of a metaphor? >> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >> or >> hear for ourselves. >> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>> future members of our organization. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Arielle Silverman, President >>> National Association of blind Students >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> hi brian, >>>> >>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading >>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out >>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>> adultry >>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to >>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. >>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>> she >>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>> divorce. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 05:22:47 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:22:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> What is Scott's email address? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>>> Dalas >>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>> was >>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>> read >>>> >>>> or >>>> hear for ourselves. >>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>> convention. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>> >>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>> Reading >>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>> out >>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>> adultry >>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>> to >>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>> her. >>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>> and >>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>> she >>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>> divorce. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From gpaikens at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 05:23:07 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:23:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Some hats seem to work fine without blocking auditory clues. Also, some looser fitting hoodies can break the wind and cover your ears without hindering auditory clues. GregOn Feb 12, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Marcia, > > Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used to winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure it is difficult > for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it doesn't seem > appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you were > not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will always be > easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel challenges as > something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find people who will be supportive. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > > On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: > >> Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the >> northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing >> wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best >> mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be >> disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on >> the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic >> here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >> center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >> because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess >> it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >> loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, >> it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might >> say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to >> go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. > >> Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to >> judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I >> will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to >> say about this. > >> This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL > >> Marsha > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel > >> Hi all, > >> I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >> cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >> cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >> found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >> high winds? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >> l.com >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5868 (20110212) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5868 (20110212) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 05:26:39 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:26:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas In-Reply-To: <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > What is Scott's email address? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>>>> Dalas >>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>> was >>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>> read >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>> convention. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>> her. >>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From gpaikens at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 05:31:01 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone In-Reply-To: <4D57643D.8090800@gmail.com> References: <1EAF680E-1A8D-4245-A45D-8B80CC649022@mac.com> <4D57643D.8090800@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have not tried their software, but from what I understand, their method of teaching language is highly visual in nature. It involves looking at pictures/videos and saying out loud what is happening in the foreign language. The idea is to get you to think in a foreign language by connecting what you see to what you are saying without translating to english first. I haven't used their products but I checked out the program a couple years back because I was interested. This was the understanding I got and it turned me off. An accessible alternative is languagepod101.com. They have courses available in a whole bunch of languages. I have been using their russian site to try and learn some russian and it has been very accessible. Hope this helps. Greg On Feb 12, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Bre B wrote: > On 2/12/2011 4:05 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Hi all: >> Just wondering, >> has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? >> If so, >> is it accessible with Voice Over? >> >> Or JAWS? >> >> I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, >> but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jesusfreak262%40gmail.com > Ah Yes, I have been wondering about the accessibility of Roseta Stone. I have jaws, but I am planning to get a mac at some point. > Bre > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 05:33:16 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:33:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <006501cbcb3f$84cc70c0$9560c747@BRIAN> What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do I find the speech? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> What is Scott's email address? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>> Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>>>> in >>>>>> Dalas >>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>> was >>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>> read >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>> convention. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>> advise >>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 05:37:33 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:37:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas In-Reply-To: <006501cbcb3f$84cc70c0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> <006501cbcb3f$84cc70c0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: The speech isn't on the site, but his E-mail address is. Go to www.cocenter.org. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do I > find the speech? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> What is Scott's email address? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>>> Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> Dalas >>>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>>> convention. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>>> advise >>>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 05:44:00 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:44:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais In-Reply-To: <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com><003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB@OwnerPC> Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and placed online. I'll see if his was. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas What is Scott's email address? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>>> Dalas >>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>> was >>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>> read >>>> >>>> or >>>> hear for ourselves. >>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>> convention. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>> >>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>> Reading >>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>> out >>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>> adultry >>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>> to >>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>> her. >>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>> and >>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>> she >>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>> divorce. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 05:49:53 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:49:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> <006501cbcb3f$84cc70c0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <006b01cbcb41$d6c48ff0$9560c747@BRIAN> Did scott write the speech so he'll know what I'm talking about? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > The speech isn't on the site, but his E-mail address is. Go to > www.cocenter.org. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do I >> find the speech? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> What is Scott's email address? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>> >>>> >>>>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>>>> Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> Dalas >>>>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>>>> convention. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>>>>>> Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>>>> advise >>>>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the >>>>>>>>> NABS >>>>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the >>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack >>>>>>>>> meaningful >>>>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would >>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay >>>>>>>>>> married >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, >>>>>>>>>> divorce >>>>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay >>>>>>>>>> married >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From gpaikens at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 05:50:44 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:50:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais In-Reply-To: <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB@OwnerPC> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com><003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <36A26BC3-38BB-4C70-AD93-7726CB450B1B@gmail.com> The link to the audio for this speech is: http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Audio/2010_Convention_Highlights/Tuesday_July_6/04_SWEP_And_The_Bars_Of_Our_Prison.mp3 The NFB website has all kinds of useful materials like this and the search feature is fantastic. Greg On Feb 13, 2011, at 12:44 AM, wrote: > Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and placed online. I'll see if his was. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > What is Scott's email address? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>>>> Dalas >>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered quite >>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would advise >>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say succinctly >>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in Reading >>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point out >>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married to >>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. >>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 06:06:39 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:06:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas In-Reply-To: <006b01cbcb41$d6c48ff0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> <006501cbcb3f$84cc70c0$9560c747@BRIAN> <006b01cbcb41$d6c48ff0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Mr. Aikins gave you the audio on this list. Yes Scott wrote it, so you could understand it. it's his personal story. BTW, (Greg,) sorry if I misspelled your name. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Did scott write the speech so he'll know what I'm talking about? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:37 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> The speech isn't on the site, but his E-mail address is. Go to >> www.cocenter.org. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do I >>> find the speech? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. >>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> What is Scott's email address? >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>>>>> Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Dalas >>>>>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> read >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>>>>> convention. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>>>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>>>>>>> Joshua >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>>>>> advise >>>>>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the >>>>>>>>>> NABS >>>>>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the >>>>>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack >>>>>>>>>> meaningful >>>>>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I >>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would >>>>>>>>>>> point >>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay >>>>>>>>>>> married >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, >>>>>>>>>>> divorce >>>>>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay >>>>>>>>>>> married >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 13 07:22:20 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 01:22:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Arielle, It would be great to see how others navigate through the snowy, slushed-filled streets while getting to and from their locations. I live in Nebraska and we can have brutal winters, though not as bad as the Dakota's or Minnesota. I have never enjoyed the cold, and when the thermostat drops below 70 degrees, I am freezing! *smile* When it snows around here, especially like this winter where piles and piles of snow are covering everything, my usual landmarks are nowhere to be found. Between work and school, I do not have time to wander about in the cold and snow, but I want to be safe at the same time. I have to find, or create, new landmarks, but more than this, I have to rely on my other senses more than normal. I live close to a bus stop. Typically, I leave my complex, turn up the road leading to a main thoroughfare, find the sidewalk and wait for the bus. The road up to the main thoroughfare does not have a sidewalk so I walk in the road, staying close to the curb. When I reach the intersection of this road and the main thoroughfare, I cane along the curb looking for the sidewalk. In the winter, however, a wall of snow lines the curb on the road and creates a barrier between me and the sidewalk. Fortunately, the road is not super busy so I continue to walk in the street, keeping as close as possible to the new curb of snow. As I approach the intersection, there is a turning lane so I pay careful attention to the traffic making sure to not walk too far past the sidewalk and into the main thoroughfare. Noticing where the cars are turning on the nearest lane, I begin to cane over the snow to find the sidewalk. If the snow mounds reach too high, I may have to traverse over them. When it is really bad. I stick close to the "curb" of snow right before the turning lane, I stand on the snow so I am somewhat out of the road, and the bus will pick me up there. Living in a bigger city, usually major streets and sidewalks are cleared. Same with campus. The most difficult thing for me is the snow piled along the curbs. If I miss the mark on a crossing, I have to climb mountains of snow which is a pain. LOL There is no right or wrong answer, I think. We all find and develop our own methods for dealing with situations like winter weather. My main word of advice is to truly rely on your other senses. Especially on those routes you know the best. Listening to your surroundings, and being prepared for any situation, will ensure safety and efficient traveling. Of course, if someone is willing, I take a ride with a friend or family member when it is unbearable. Last week, we had a day where the temp dropped to ten below with wind. As I mentioned, I don't like being cold-- I found a ride. *smile* Bridgit Message: 22 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:50:58 -0700 From: Arielle Silverman To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high winds? Arielle From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 07:29:11 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:29:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> <1AF9C055B2B5423786C85FA165D3D28C@jage> Message-ID: Dear all, I'm a little surprised that Salt Lake is number 2, not so surprised it's in the top ten. Buses cover pretty much anywhere in the city, light rail and buses can take you almost anywhere in the suburbs...but the light rail system is woefully lacking (it doesn't go to the airport, for instance), and I've heard complaints about buses missing places outside of downtown. Which makes me curious, like all the rest of you, how this thing got put together. Best, Kirt On 2/12/11, Darian Smith wrote: > I am very curious as to how they put this list together. I like > Portland's system quite a bit, and Denver's is pretty solid > considering how far-reaching it is. > alot of these systems differ from san francisco in that if you are > looking at SF proper's transportation system, it only serves San > Francisco and maybe a few parts outside of it. There is certainly a > system of transit agencies thatwhen counted, servefromBErkleyto San > Jose, and points between. You can even get to both San Francisco and > Oakland's airports via public trans. L.A. is notoriously suspect. I > do have to call into question the Methodology of this list. Now, I > can have a problem with this "scientific study" *smile* > Darian > > On 2/12/11, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: >> The list puzzles me a bit. Los Angeles, but not Chicago? >> I wonder how they gathered their data. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" >> ; ; "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:18 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation >> >> >>> US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 cities >>> with >>> the best public transit. You can search the site for the article to read >>> more about each entry, but note that the presentation is an online >>> slideshow. >>> >>> Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver >>> #8 Honolulu >>> #7 Los Angeles >>> #6 San Francisco >>> #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul >>> #4 Boston >>> #3 New York City >>> #2 Salt Lake City >>> #1 Portland >>> >>> Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 13 07:44:35 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 01:44:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Marsha, First, no one is "super" anything-- that goes for blind people too. True, some may understand cardinal directions better, and some have an inate ability to quickly navigate new surroundings, but we are human-- not cookie-cutter versions of one another. If anyone caused you-- or anyone else-- to feel inferior because of struggling in nasty, winter conditions, I would assume said person has never independently traveled in such conditions. Sighted and blind, we all lose our direction, and we all can become disoriented. The true test of good skills is when you refuse to give up and keep truckin'. We should work on using any skills and methods available to us. We should live as independently as we can-- and by this, I mean pursuing our goals efficiently, living by our own terms and not what others direct, and setting a positive example as a blind person, and as an individual in general. We strengthen our own lives as well as those around us when following this path. This does not mean, however, that you will not make mistakes or lose focus at times. Training at an NFB center, or other similar center, does not ensure a life devoid of mistakes or challenges. What it does ensure is that you will be armored with the proper tools, methods, attitudes and support to help you navigate challenges. You mentioned an hearing impairment-- this, of course, adds another dimension to your "skills" used for dealing with weather related issues when traveling. It does not mean it is impossible, but it certainly presents a challenge, and one, I might add, you seem to have overcome. I have mild neuropathy so Braille is not always efficient for me. I have spent the last 8 years being embarrassed by this, but I realized it is out of my control. Others can think what they want about the lack of my Braille reading; I know the truth. I know Braille, and I use it as often as I can. We all learn at different paces, and we all have strengths as well as flaws. Anyone implying that difficulty when traversing city streets during winter,, or other unfriendly weather, is due to a lack of ability with mobility skills, has their own issues to deal with. These mindsets-- attitudes-- do not fill people with a desire to attend a training center, or join the Federation. They simply turn people off, and give us rational, open-minded people, a bad name. Bridgit Message: 28 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 13 07:54:19 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 01:54:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, I can email you off list with a document that describes some often used editing symbols. Has your instructor ever gone through these symbols with the class or you? Considering asking them, or a tutor knowledgeable on the subject, to go over these symbols with you. One example is that you would circle a word that is misspelled or used out of context. A line through a word usually means to cut it. So I guess, if you know the specific symbol-- like circle or carrot-- and you knew how and when to use them, you could direct a scribe to make that mark on the necessary correction. You can email me off list if you have more questions. If you use JAWS, it is possible to edit. Turn on the "all punctuation" feature with JAWS, but you will have to be careful to watch for commonly confused words (like their and there) and misspelled words. These can be tedious. If your DSO can not Braille the test, I believe Brailleing it on your own would be considered a reasonable accomodation. Explain the need to your professor to be able to read the test, just like everyone else, so you do not miss corrections. Bridgit Message: 32 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:25:57 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, Yes I mean the copy editing symbols that editors use. They are standard; I can use a reader for tests, but how will I tell them what symbol to write? I don't know if they have names. Also I have to have it in braille to see commas, other punctuation and spelling. I hope my professor lets me braille the article for copy editing at home before the test. My school does not provide braille for tests nor do they have up dated technology. This wouldn't be such an issue if they could emboss tests. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:10 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Ashley, I am an editor, and I also have assignments in class where we use universal symbols for copy editing. I am a creative writing major with a minor in public relations so I am familiar with this issue. There are two ways you can approach this. 1. create your own way to mark errors. I use JAWS and have done this for my classes for creative writing and public relations classes. Since I can not independently make these marks, and JAWS can not either, my instructors have allowed me to make corrections in a way that is accessible. My instructors have also applied this for corrections on my writing. For example: We may go too (to) the festivel (festival) after picking Jake up (comma) but him (he) may not have muney (money). In copy editing, there are specific symbols used for corrections, but I have used the same paranthetical corrections, as demonstrated above, for PR writing too. 2. Use a reader/scribe for your test. They can read the test (though you will need a copy I suppose to point out the errors). Use whatever method you are comfortable with so you can read the test too, and Indicate what is to be corrected then have them draw the necessary symbol. You will be telling them exactly what to do, and there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do this. Bridgit Message: 8 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:17:58 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Message-ID: <9E9174F243AD4C3293F3E631F149B50C at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, I?m taking an online editing class. We?re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said ? The tests ?involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I?m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can?t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don?t have names, at least I don?t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we?re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I?ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 22:04:37 -0600 From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Marcia, Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used to winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure it is difficult for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it doesn't seem appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you were not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will always be easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel challenges as something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find people who will be supportive. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: >Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to >the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I >am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just >the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never >be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of >snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very >sarcastic >here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess >it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, >it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might >say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to >go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. >Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so >quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do >so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks >others have to say about this. >This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >Marsha > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Arielle Silverman >Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >Hi all, >I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold >and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane >and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found >helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high >winds? >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%4 >0gmai >l.com > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson% >40visi.com ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:10:40 -0800 From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am very curious as to how they put this list together. I like Portland's system quite a bit, and Denver's is pretty solid considering how far-reaching it is. alot of these systems differ from san francisco in that if you are looking at SF proper's transportation system, it only serves San Francisco and maybe a few parts outside of it. There is certainly a system of transit agencies thatwhen counted, servefromBErkleyto San Jose, and points between. You can even get to both San Francisco and Oakland's airports via public trans. L.A. is notoriously suspect. I do have to call into question the Methodology of this list. Now, I can have a problem with this "scientific study" *smile* Darian On 2/12/11, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: > The list puzzles me a bit. Los Angeles, but not Chicago? > I wonder how they gathered their data. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" > ; ; "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:18 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation > > >> US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 >> cities with the best public transit. You can search the site for the >> article to read more about each entry, but note that the presentation >> is an online slideshow. >> >> Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver >> #8 Honolulu >> #7 Los Angeles >> #6 San Francisco >> #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul >> #4 Boston >> #3 New York City >> #2 Salt Lake City >> #1 Portland >> >> Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi >> .com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm > ail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:55:25 -0500 From: Bre B To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone Message-ID: <4D57643D.8090800 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 2/12/2011 4:05 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi all: > Just wondering, > has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? > If so, > is it accessible with Voice Over? > > Or JAWS? > > I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, > but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. > > Thanks, > > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jesusfreak262%40 gmail.com Ah Yes, I have been wondering about the accessibility of Roseta Stone. I have jaws, but I am planning to get a mac at some point. Bre ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:08:33 -0600 From: community service Outreach To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder--Community service call tomorrow! Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi everyone. Just a reminder that there is a community service call tomorrow. We will be hearing from an awesome guest speaker. I tpromises to be a great call. Here is the call in information again phone number: (218) 339-3600 passcode 808277. ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:10:16 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for > his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >> Hi, >> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >> in >> Dalas >> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >> prison more of a metaphor? >> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >> or >> hear for ourselves. >> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post >>> to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived online, >>> and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google can see the >>> posts we write. We need to think about posting things that make our >>> list and our organization look like a place that people would want >>> to go to get information about blindness. Posts that are >>> inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about blindness are >>> likely to turn off people who could be future members of our >>> organization. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Arielle Silverman, President >>> National Association of blind Students >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> hi brian, >>>> >>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second >>>> I would point out to both her and the person she was with that they >>>> are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal sin, >>>> contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to get out >>>> of that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive her, make >>>> up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do that to me >>>> I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would recommend marriage >>>> counseling, forgive forget stay married and move on. Besides all >>>> the research shows that divorce is bad for children. My priority is >>>> to keep my family together. If she makes a mistake she makes a >>>> mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she >>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>> divorce. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:14:59 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <003f01cbcb3c$f798be90$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response I will David. Have a happy Valentines Weekend. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re lions world > Brian: This is really none of your business and not appropriate, so > cut > it out. > > David Andrews, List Owner > > At 04:27 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote: >>What would you do if your wife while you were away met a sighted >>person in >>Philadelphia and got her "needs met" You know scenarios like this can >>happen if couples are apart for lengthie periods of time! I hope she is >>faithful enough to be strong while you are away. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:10 PM >>Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world >> >> >>>Hi Ariel, >>> >>>I am going there for certifications, not independence training I >>>already >>>got that at colorado center. Yes I could go to a local school for the >>>same kinds of certifications. But there's no garnatee I would succeed >>>there. Example. this past month I had $0.00 no money at all because our >>>heating bill was so high. Now if I had to go to school for certifications >>>this means that I would be skipping a whole month of school because I >>>have absolutely no money at all to pay for paratransit to get me to >>>school and back again. Next month I may have $50 perhaps $100 and the >>>next month I may only have $10 or so. It depends on how high the bills, >>>rent is from month to month. I think lions world is the best option for >>>me. My wife and son can stay here and keep things up and running then >>>I'll have a place to come back to. If I do get a job I'm going to have to >>>come back here for a little while so I can pack this place up and move my >>>family to wherever it is I'll be working anyway. Yes I'll miss them but >>>its a necessary sacrifice and I'm certainly willing to make that >>>sacrifice if it means working and allowing my family as nice an income as >>>I can provide for them. >>> >>>Josh >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela kas%40verizon.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis i.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:15:04 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>> in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >>> prison more of a metaphor? >>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >>> >>> or >>> hear for ourselves. >>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>> convention. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived online, >>>> and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google can see >>>> the posts we write. We need to think about posting things that make >>>> our list and our organization look like a place that people would >>>> want to go to get information about blindness. Posts that are >>>> inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about blindness are >>>> likely to turn off people who could be future members of our >>>> organization. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>> National Association of blind Students >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>> hi brian, >>>>> >>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. >>>>> Second I would point out to both her and the person she was with >>>>> that they are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal >>>>> sin, contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to >>>>> get out of that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive >>>>> her, make up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do >>>>> that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would >>>>> recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes >>>>> a mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>> why she did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I >>>>> would not. I don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a >>>>> sufficient reason for divorce. >>>>> >>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:17:09 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais Message-ID: <91AD7CE8123B4B2E8C3C0E36E20BFE42 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response I hear it was a good one; it would be great if there was a transcript available. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:10 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for > his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >> Hi, >> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >> in >> Dalas >> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >> prison more of a metaphor? >> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >> or >> hear for ourselves. >> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post >>> to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived online, >>> and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google can see the >>> posts we write. We need to think about posting things that make our >>> list and our organization look like a place that people would want >>> to go to get information about blindness. Posts that are >>> inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about blindness are >>> likely to turn off people who could be future members of our >>> organization. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Arielle Silverman, President >>> National Association of blind Students >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> hi brian, >>>> >>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second >>>> I would point out to both her and the person she was with that they >>>> are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal sin, >>>> contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to get out >>>> of that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive her, make >>>> up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do that to me >>>> I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would recommend marriage >>>> counseling, forgive forget stay married and move on. Besides all >>>> the research shows that divorce is bad for children. My priority is >>>> to keep my family together. If she makes a mistake she makes a >>>> mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she >>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>> divorce. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:22:47 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original What is Scott's email address? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>> in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>> was >>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>> read >>>> >>>> or >>>> hear for ourselves. >>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>> convention. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>> like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>> Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>>>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>>>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>>>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived >>>>> online, and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google >>>>> can see the posts we write. We need to think about posting things >>>>> that make our list and our organization look like a place that >>>>> people would want to go to get information about blindness. Posts >>>>> that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about >>>>> blindness are likely to turn off people who could be future >>>>> members of our organization. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>> >>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>> Reading >>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>> out >>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>> adultry >>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>> to >>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>> her. >>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>> and >>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>> she >>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>> divorce. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:23:07 -0500 From: Greg Aikens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Some hats seem to work fine without blocking auditory clues. Also, some looser fitting hoodies can break the wind and cover your ears without hindering auditory clues. GregOn Feb 12, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Marcia, > > Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used > to winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure it is difficult > for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it doesn't seem > appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you were > not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will always be > easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel challenges as > something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find people who will be supportive. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > > On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: > >> Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to >> the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I >> am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has >> just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor >> never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 >> feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. >> *being very sarcastic >> here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >> center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >> because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess >> it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >> loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, >> it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might >> say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to >> go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. > >> Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so >> quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't >> do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and >> tricks others have to say about this. > >> This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL > >> Marsha > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel > >> Hi all, > >> I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >> cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >> cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >> found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >> high winds? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth >> %40gmai >> l.com >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobso >> n%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gma > il.com ------------------------------ Message: 43 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:26:39 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > What is Scott's email address? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the >>>>> convention in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you >>>>> explain? What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other >>>>> centers or was >>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>> read >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>> convention. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>>> like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>>> Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what >>>>>> we want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to >>>>>> minimize clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may >>>>>> not be interested in the discussion. Second, this list is >>>>>> archived online, and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness >>>>>> on Google can see the posts we write. We need to think about >>>>>> posting things that make our list and our organization look like >>>>>> a place that people would want to go to get information about >>>>>> blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could >>>>>> be future members of our organization. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. >>>>>>> Second I would point out >>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>> her. >>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason >>>>>>> for divorce. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 44 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500 From: Greg Aikens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have not tried their software, but from what I understand, their method of teaching language is highly visual in nature. It involves looking at pictures/videos and saying out loud what is happening in the foreign language. The idea is to get you to think in a foreign language by connecting what you see to what you are saying without translating to english first. I haven't used their products but I checked out the program a couple years back because I was interested. This was the understanding I got and it turned me off. An accessible alternative is languagepod101.com. They have courses available in a whole bunch of languages. I have been using their russian site to try and learn some russian and it has been very accessible. Hope this helps. Greg On Feb 12, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Bre B wrote: > On 2/12/2011 4:05 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Hi all: >> Just wondering, >> has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? >> If so, >> is it accessible with Voice Over? >> >> Or JAWS? >> >> I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, >> but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jesusfreak262%40 gmail.com > Ah Yes, I have been wondering about the accessibility of Roseta > Stone. I have jaws, but I am planning to get a mac at some point. Bre > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gma > il.com ------------------------------ Message: 45 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:33:16 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: <006501cbcb3f$84cc70c0$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do I find the speech? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> What is Scott's email address? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>> Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the >>>>>> convention >>>>>> in >>>>>> Dalas >>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>> was >>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>> read >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>> convention. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising >>>>>> people to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech >>>>>> about the prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such >>>>>> center, like the individual giving the speech was referring to. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>> advise >>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>>>>> First I would >>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason >>>>>>>> for divorce. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 46 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:37:33 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The speech isn't on the site, but his E-mail address is. Go to www.cocenter.org. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do > I find the speech? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> What is Scott's email address? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>>> Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>>>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the >>>>>>> convention in Dalas >>>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>>> convention. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising >>>>>>> people to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech >>>>>>> about the prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one >>>>>>> such center, like the individual giving the speech was referring >>>>>>> to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has >>>>>>>> veered quite a bit away from the original topic of training >>>>>>>> centers. I would advise >>>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>>>>>> First I would >>>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason >>>>>>>>> for divorce. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.p >>>>>>>>> resident%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester >>>>>>>> 8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 47 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:44:00 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais Message-ID: <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and placed online. I'll see if his was. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas What is Scott's email address? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>> in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>> was >>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>> read >>>> >>>> or >>>> hear for ourselves. >>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>> convention. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>> like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>> Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>>>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>>>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>>>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived >>>>> online, and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google >>>>> can see the posts we write. We need to think about posting things >>>>> that make our list and our organization look like a place that >>>>> people would want to go to get information about blindness. Posts >>>>> that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about >>>>> blindness are likely to turn off people who could be future >>>>> members of our organization. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>> >>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>> Reading >>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>> out >>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>> adultry >>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>> to >>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>> her. >>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>> and >>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>> she >>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>> divorce. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 26 ************************************** From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 08:02:48 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 02:02:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone Message-ID: <004401cbcb54$68a13d80$39e3b880$@com> I have tried a demo of Rosetta Stone on the web, and believe that it will not work for blind users. Unless I am way off on how the program works, I believe it shows pictures and animations and you select, for instance, the appropriate verb to describe the action in the picture. My understanding of how the program works is extremely basic, but it seems to be very much built around interaction with visual stimuli. If anybody has information to the contrary, I'd be glad to hear it. I'd also be interested in any suggestions of similar interactive language learning methods that would work better for blind learners. Sean From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 08:20:37 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 02:20:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Message-ID: <004901cbcb56$e56be2f0$b043a8d0$@com> Ashley, On the first issue, even if the symbols do not have names, which I suspect they likely do, you can still give them names. As long as you and your reader/scribe have an agreed upon set of terms, there should not be an issue. I do see the difficulty you refer to about not having the articles to be edited in Braille. On one hand, it seems a little bit questionable for them to let you take the articles home, read them and transcribe them before any of your classmates have ever had a chance to see them, but on the other hand, I understand that many people do much better at editing with Braille than using audio. Is there a trusted third party who you and the school could agree to allow to produce the Braille? Do you have access to a refreshable Braille display? It might be easier for them to get you an electronic version than an embossed hard copy. I'll admit, that with a school that cannot produce Braille, this can be difficult. It can be hard to balance your needed accommodations with the integrity of the test. I hope you are able to find a good solution. Take care, Sean From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 13:41:39 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 08:41:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com><003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <006f01cbcb83$bf390310$9560c747@BRIAN> No I didn't hear it liveif you find it please email it to me? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais > Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and > placed online. I'll see if his was. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > What is Scott's email address? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>>>> Dalas >>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>> was >>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>> read >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>> convention. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>> quite >>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>> advise >>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>> succinctly >>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>> her. >>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>> not. I >>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 14:20:47 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 08:20:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais In-Reply-To: <006f01cbcb83$bf390310$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com> <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB@OwnerPC> <006f01cbcb83$bf390310$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: The link has already been posted on this thread, by Greg Aikins. If you can't navigate it, I'll tell you what to do. Just go to www.nfb.org, go to the search field, type in Convention Highlights, and you can find the audio archives. Just click on 2010, and the list of speeches from last year's convention are there. Blessings, Joshua On 2/13/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > No I didn't hear it liveif you find it please email it to me? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:44 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais > > >> Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and >> placed online. I'll see if his was. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian Hatgelakas >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> What is Scott's email address? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>> Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>>>>> Dalas >>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>> was >>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>> read >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>> convention. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>> advise >>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>> not. I >>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Sun Feb 13 14:26:41 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:26:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com><003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN> <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN> <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB@OwnerPC> <36A26BC3-38BB-4C70-AD93-7726CB450B1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <008701cbcb8a$09b65220$9560c747@BRIAN> I tried downloading the MP3 from the NFB sight and I got a message saying "Error system can't download audio. If anyone has an actual MP3 copy please email it to me off list at brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Aikens" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais > The link to the audio for this speech is: > http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Audio/2010_Convention_Highlights/Tuesday_July_6/04_SWEP_And_The_Bars_Of_Our_Prison.mp3 > > The NFB website has all kinds of useful materials like this and the search > feature is fantastic. > > Greg > > On Feb 13, 2011, at 12:44 AM, wrote: > >> Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and >> placed online. I'll see if his was. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> What is Scott's email address? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>> Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>>>> in >>>>>> Dalas >>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>> was >>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>> read >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>> convention. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>> advise >>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>> not. I >>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 14:27:29 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:27:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey guys, I highly disagree with the idea that you shouldn't wear a hat. The risk of a slightly dampened hearing is not nearly as bad as the risk of getting severely sick because your head was bare in below freezing temperatures. I know, I did it, and now I'm sick as a dog! Someone mentioned using your cane as balance. An alternative to this, as leaning on the cane can bend it and mess up the swing of the cane, is to get a support cane for in the winter. I have one year-round due to physical issues, but it is even more useful in ice and snow. You can get an inexpensive folding support cane from a discount store like Wal-Mart for around $10. I say folding because then you can put it away when you get inside...if you don't need it, why have it out? If your dog accepts booties on h is feet, there are non-skid booties out there that are great for pups. Keeps their feet warm and keeps them from slipping and injuring themselves. Also, if it is *very* cold weather, you might consider getting a dog sweater. Not sure how these work with harnesses, but I would suspect that since the harness is adjustable, you could put it under the harness without too much trouble since most are not very thick but nice and warm. Back to cane travel. If the sidewalk is not available but snow has been cleared from the road, tap the curb as you go by. I know, many times snow is piled up on the curb (super unsafe), but often ice and snow stay on sidewalks much longer than on roads and curbs, since people take care of the roads and leave the sidewalks up to the individual home owners. If the sidewalk in front of your home is prone to ice, as soon as the snow or sleet is on the ground, go out and mess it up. Shuffle yor foot through it, sweep your cane back and forth, have your kids or neighbour's kids play in it. Rouch snow or ice, when packed down, is much better than smooth snow/ice! On 2/13/11, Greg Aikens wrote: > > Some hats seem to work fine without blocking auditory clues. Also, some > looser fitting hoodies can break the wind and cover your ears without > hindering auditory clues. > > GregOn Feb 12, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: > >> Marcia, >> >> Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used to >> winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure >> it is difficult >> for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take >> some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it >> doesn't seem >> appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you >> might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you >> were >> not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master >> such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will >> always be >> easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the >> possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel >> challenges as >> something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find >> people who will be supportive. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> >> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: >> >>> Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the >>> northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am >>> doing >>> wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best >>> mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be >>> disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow >>> on >>> the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic >>> here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >>> center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >>> because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I >>> guess >>> it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >>> loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry >>> guys, >>> it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you >>> might >>> say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing >>> to >>> go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. >>> >> >>> Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick >>> to >>> judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I >>> will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have >>> to >>> say about this. >> >>> This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >> >>> Marsha >> >>> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >>> cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >>> cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >>> found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >>> high winds? >> >>> Arielle >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >>> l.com >>> >> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 15:26:27 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 10:26:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais In-Reply-To: <36A26BC3-38BB-4C70-AD93-7726CB450B1B@gmail.com> References: <4D5717E7.5040507@gmail.com><003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747@BRIAN><004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747@BRIAN><82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB@OwnerPC> <36A26BC3-38BB-4C70-AD93-7726CB450B1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005416710985469781E434DF27330D25@OwnerPC> Greg, Thanks. I'm dying to hear it! Anyone know how long the speech is? -----Original Message----- From: Greg Aikens Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:50 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais The link to the audio for this speech is: http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Audio/2010_Convention_Highlights/Tuesday_July_6/04_SWEP_And_The_Bars_Of_Our_Prison.mp3 The NFB website has all kinds of useful materials like this and the search feature is fantastic. Greg On Feb 13, 2011, at 12:44 AM, wrote: > Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and > placed online. I'll see if his was. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > What is Scott's email address? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >>>> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention in >>>>> Dalas >>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>> was >>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>> read >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>> convention. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >>>>> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>>>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>> quite >>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>> advise >>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>> succinctly >>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>> Reading >>>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>> her. >>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>> not. I >>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>>> divorce. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Sun Feb 13 15:36:41 2011 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:36:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bridgit, You have described well many of the things that I do as well. I think it is worth mentioning that high mounds of snow are not particularly convenient for sighted people, either. It sometimes bugs me a little at the extent to which society is willing to pay to keep roads clear but not to clear sidewalks, but of course I do see that there is a difference, too. We were joking here just the other night how much longer cane tips last during the winter. Another think worth mentioning is that often there is a nice path cleared from the sidewalk to the street, but it might not be aimed at the street you wish to cross. People will sometimes just shovel out one direction. Therefore, when looking for a way to get from the sidewalk to the street or from the street to the sidewalk, it is worth cheching around the corner to see if there is an opening before climging over a large pile of snow. Also, one should not overlook driveways as a way to get from sidewalk to street if you know a corner has not been shoveled out. Frankly, sometimes even if all the openings are present and the street is not too busy, it is easier to walk on the street because they are often cleared better than the sidewalk. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 01:22:20 -0600, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >Arielle, >It would be great to see how others navigate through the snowy, >slushed-filled streets while getting to and from their locations. >I live in Nebraska and we can have brutal winters, though not as bad as >the Dakota's or Minnesota. >I have never enjoyed the cold, and when the thermostat drops below 70 >degrees, I am freezing! *smile* >When it snows around here, especially like this winter where piles and >piles of snow are covering everything, my usual landmarks are nowhere to >be found. Between work and school, I do not have time to wander about >in the cold and snow, but I want to be safe at the same time. >I have to find, or create, new landmarks, but more than this, I have to >rely on my other senses more than normal. >I live close to a bus stop. Typically, I leave my complex, turn up the >road leading to a main thoroughfare, find the sidewalk and wait for the >bus. The road up to the main thoroughfare does not have a sidewalk so I >walk in the road, staying close to the curb. When I reach the >intersection of this road and the main thoroughfare, I cane along the >curb looking for the sidewalk. >In the winter, however, a wall of snow lines the curb on the road and >creates a barrier between me and the sidewalk. Fortunately, the road is >not super busy so I continue to walk in the street, keeping as close as >possible to the new curb of snow. As I approach the intersection, there >is a turning lane so I pay careful attention to the traffic making sure >to not walk too far past the sidewalk and into the main thoroughfare. >Noticing where the cars are turning on the nearest lane, I begin to cane >over the snow to find the sidewalk. If the snow mounds reach too high, >I may have to traverse over them. >When it is really bad. I stick close to the "curb" of snow right before >the turning lane, I stand on the snow so I am somewhat out of the road, >and the bus will pick me up there. >Living in a bigger city, usually major streets and sidewalks are >cleared. Same with campus. The most difficult thing for me is the snow >piled along the curbs. If I miss the mark on a crossing, I have to >climb mountains of snow which is a pain. LOL >There is no right or wrong answer, I think. We all find and develop our >own methods for dealing with situations like winter weather. My main >word of advice is to truly rely on your other senses. Especially on >those routes you know the best. Listening to your surroundings, and >being prepared for any situation, will ensure safety and efficient >traveling. >Of course, if someone is willing, I take a ride with a friend or family >member when it is unbearable. Last week, we had a day where the temp >dropped to ten below with wind. As I mentioned, I don't like being >cold-- I found a ride. *smile* >Bridgit >Message: 22 >Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:50:58 -0700 >From: Arielle Silverman >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Hi all, >I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold >and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane >and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found >helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high >winds? >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 15:45:18 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 10:45:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: <004901cbcb56$e56be2f0$b043a8d0$@com> References: <004901cbcb56$e56be2f0$b043a8d0$@com> Message-ID: <68CD6CDA70E544D48D12A88BB22DB4D5@OwnerPC> Sean, I have to look for punctuation and spelling errors as part of a copy editing exercise for homework and tests. Its not the whole test; some of it is just multiple choice. The school does not produce braille and a reader cannot exactly read misspelled words and spell them without giving the answer away. I do have a braille display on the braille note yet I can't use that during a test; that would be cheating to have access to my notes and everything. As to a third party brailling it, I don't know; I doubt it because GmU is the closest university in the next town over; and we don't have time for them to braille something; they would need like 3 weeks notice; but I'll ask my professor what she thinks we should do with that as an option. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sean Whalen Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 3:20 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Ashley, On the first issue, even if the symbols do not have names, which I suspect they likely do, you can still give them names. As long as you and your reader/scribe have an agreed upon set of terms, there should not be an issue. I do see the difficulty you refer to about not having the articles to be edited in Braille. On one hand, it seems a little bit questionable for them to let you take the articles home, read them and transcribe them before any of your classmates have ever had a chance to see them, but on the other hand, I understand that many people do much better at editing with Braille than using audio. Is there a trusted third party who you and the school could agree to allow to produce the Braille? Do you have access to a refreshable Braille display? It might be easier for them to get you an electronic version than an embossed hard copy. I'll admit, that with a school that cannot produce Braille, this can be difficult. It can be hard to balance your needed accommodations with the integrity of the test. I hope you are able to find a good solution. Take care, Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 15:50:14 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 10:50:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01A5D2B0FD3F4C6C888098CD5D3B26D2@OwnerPC> Hi, This is an online class so no explanation; but yes I want to go over it with her as you suggested. She could even draw with a dark marker as she explains because I can see a little. I need an awareness of what the symbols mean and do. Yes I do want to braille that part of the test at home to take in with me; I can only know misspellings if I read it myself. I'll see what the professor says. -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 2:54 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Ashley, I can email you off list with a document that describes some often used editing symbols. Has your instructor ever gone through these symbols with the class or you? Considering asking them, or a tutor knowledgeable on the subject, to go over these symbols with you. One example is that you would circle a word that is misspelled or used out of context. A line through a word usually means to cut it. So I guess, if you know the specific symbol-- like circle or carrot-- and you knew how and when to use them, you could direct a scribe to make that mark on the necessary correction. You can email me off list if you have more questions. If you use JAWS, it is possible to edit. Turn on the "all punctuation" feature with JAWS, but you will have to be careful to watch for commonly confused words (like their and there) and misspelled words. These can be tedious. If your DSO can not Braille the test, I believe Brailleing it on your own would be considered a reasonable accomodation. Explain the need to your professor to be able to read the test, just like everyone else, so you do not miss corrections. Bridgit Message: 32 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:25:57 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi, Yes I mean the copy editing symbols that editors use. They are standard; I can use a reader for tests, but how will I tell them what symbol to write? I don't know if they have names. Also I have to have it in braille to see commas, other punctuation and spelling. I hope my professor lets me braille the article for copy editing at home before the test. My school does not provide braille for tests nor do they have up dated technology. This wouldn't be such an issue if they could emboss tests. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:10 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Ashley, I am an editor, and I also have assignments in class where we use universal symbols for copy editing. I am a creative writing major with a minor in public relations so I am familiar with this issue. There are two ways you can approach this. 1. create your own way to mark errors. I use JAWS and have done this for my classes for creative writing and public relations classes. Since I can not independently make these marks, and JAWS can not either, my instructors have allowed me to make corrections in a way that is accessible. My instructors have also applied this for corrections on my writing. For example: We may go too (to) the festivel (festival) after picking Jake up (comma) but him (he) may not have muney (money). In copy editing, there are specific symbols used for corrections, but I have used the same paranthetical corrections, as demonstrated above, for PR writing too. 2. Use a reader/scribe for your test. They can read the test (though you will need a copy I suppose to point out the errors). Use whatever method you are comfortable with so you can read the test too, and Indicate what is to be corrected then have them draw the necessary symbol. You will be telling them exactly what to do, and there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do this. Bridgit Message: 8 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 17:17:58 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Message-ID: <9E9174F243AD4C3293F3E631F149B50C at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, I?m taking an online editing class. We?re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said ? The tests ?involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I?m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can?t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don?t have names, at least I don?t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we?re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I?ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 22:04:37 -0600 From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Marcia, Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used to winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure it is difficult for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it doesn't seem appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you were not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will always be easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel challenges as something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find people who will be supportive. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: >Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to >the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I >am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just >the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never >be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of >snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very >sarcastic >here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess >it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, >it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might >say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to >go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. >Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so >quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do >so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks >others have to say about this. >This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >Marsha > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf Of Arielle Silverman >Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >Hi all, >I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold >and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane >and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found >helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high >winds? >Arielle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%4 >0gmai >l.com > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson% >40visi.com ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:10:40 -0800 From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I am very curious as to how they put this list together. I like Portland's system quite a bit, and Denver's is pretty solid considering how far-reaching it is. alot of these systems differ from san francisco in that if you are looking at SF proper's transportation system, it only serves San Francisco and maybe a few parts outside of it. There is certainly a system of transit agencies thatwhen counted, servefromBErkleyto San Jose, and points between. You can even get to both San Francisco and Oakland's airports via public trans. L.A. is notoriously suspect. I do have to call into question the Methodology of this list. Now, I can have a problem with this "scientific study" *smile* Darian On 2/12/11, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: > The list puzzles me a bit. Los Angeles, but not Chicago? > I wonder how they gathered their data. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" > ; ; "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:18 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation > > >> US News and World Report recently published a list of the top 10 >> cities with the best public transit. You can search the site for the >> article to read more about each entry, but note that the presentation >> is an online slideshow. >> >> Tied at #9 were Austin and Denver >> #8 Honolulu >> #7 Los Angeles >> #6 San Francisco >> #5 Minneapolis/Saint Paul >> #4 Boston >> #3 New York City >> #2 Salt Lake City >> #1 Portland >> >> Anyway, I thought you guys might find it interesting. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at >> all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi >> .com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm > ail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:55:25 -0500 From: Bre B To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone Message-ID: <4D57643D.8090800 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 2/12/2011 4:05 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi all: > Just wondering, > has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? > If so, > is it accessible with Voice Over? > > Or JAWS? > > I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, > but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. > > Thanks, > > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jesusfreak262%40 gmail.com Ah Yes, I have been wondering about the accessibility of Roseta Stone. I have jaws, but I am planning to get a mac at some point. Bre ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:08:33 -0600 From: community service Outreach To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder--Community service call tomorrow! Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi everyone. Just a reminder that there is a community service call tomorrow. We will be hearing from an awesome guest speaker. I tpromises to be a great call. Here is the call in information again phone number: (218) 339-3600 passcode 808277. ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:10:16 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: <003301cbcb3c$4ee33320$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for > his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >> Hi, >> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >> in >> Dalas >> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >> prison more of a metaphor? >> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >> or >> hear for ourselves. >> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post >>> to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived online, >>> and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google can see the >>> posts we write. We need to think about posting things that make our >>> list and our organization look like a place that people would want >>> to go to get information about blindness. Posts that are >>> inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about blindness are >>> likely to turn off people who could be future members of our >>> organization. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Arielle Silverman, President >>> National Association of blind Students >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> hi brian, >>>> >>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second >>>> I would point out to both her and the person she was with that they >>>> are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal sin, >>>> contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to get out >>>> of that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive her, make >>>> up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do that to me >>>> I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would recommend marriage >>>> counseling, forgive forget stay married and move on. Besides all >>>> the research shows that divorce is bad for children. My priority is >>>> to keep my family together. If she makes a mistake she makes a >>>> mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she >>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>> divorce. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:14:59 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <003f01cbcb3c$f798be90$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response I will David. Have a happy Valentines Weekend. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re lions world > Brian: This is really none of your business and not appropriate, so > cut > it out. > > David Andrews, List Owner > > At 04:27 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote: >>What would you do if your wife while you were away met a sighted >>person in >>Philadelphia and got her "needs met" You know scenarios like this can >>happen if couples are apart for lengthie periods of time! I hope she is >>faithful enough to be strong while you are away. >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" >>To: >>Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:10 PM >>Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world >> >> >>>Hi Ariel, >>> >>>I am going there for certifications, not independence training I >>>already >>>got that at colorado center. Yes I could go to a local school for the >>>same kinds of certifications. But there's no garnatee I would succeed >>>there. Example. this past month I had $0.00 no money at all because our >>>heating bill was so high. Now if I had to go to school for certifications >>>this means that I would be skipping a whole month of school because I >>>have absolutely no money at all to pay for paratransit to get me to >>>school and back again. Next month I may have $50 perhaps $100 and the >>>next month I may only have $10 or so. It depends on how high the bills, >>>rent is from month to month. I think lions world is the best option for >>>me. My wife and son can stay here and keep things up and running then >>>I'll have a place to come back to. If I do get a job I'm going to have to >>>come back here for a little while so I can pack this place up and move my >>>family to wherever it is I'll be working anyway. Yes I'll miss them but >>>its a necessary sacrifice and I'm certainly willing to make that >>>sacrifice if it means working and allowing my family as nice an income as >>>I can provide for them. >>> >>>Josh >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela kas%40verizon.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40vis i.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:15:04 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for >> his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>> in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >>> prison more of a metaphor? >>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >>> >>> or >>> hear for ourselves. >>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>> convention. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Joshua Lester >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>> >>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >>> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived online, >>>> and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google can see >>>> the posts we write. We need to think about posting things that make >>>> our list and our organization look like a place that people would >>>> want to go to get information about blindness. Posts that are >>>> inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about blindness are >>>> likely to turn off people who could be future members of our >>>> organization. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>> National Association of blind Students >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>> hi brian, >>>>> >>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. >>>>> Second I would point out to both her and the person she was with >>>>> that they are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal >>>>> sin, contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to >>>>> get out of that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive >>>>> her, make up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do >>>>> that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would >>>>> recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married and >>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes >>>>> a mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>> why she did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I >>>>> would not. I don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a >>>>> sufficient reason for divorce. >>>>> >>>>> Josh >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:17:09 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais Message-ID: <91AD7CE8123B4B2E8C3C0E36E20BFE42 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response I hear it was a good one; it would be great if there was a transcript available. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:10 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like for > his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >> Hi, >> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >> in >> Dalas >> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or was >> prison more of a metaphor? >> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can read >> or >> hear for ourselves. >> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at convention. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >> >> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people to >> stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, like >> the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post >>> to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived online, >>> and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google can see the >>> posts we write. We need to think about posting things that make our >>> list and our organization look like a place that people would want >>> to go to get information about blindness. Posts that are >>> inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about blindness are >>> likely to turn off people who could be future members of our >>> organization. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Arielle Silverman, President >>> National Association of blind Students >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> hi brian, >>>> >>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second >>>> I would point out to both her and the person she was with that they >>>> are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal sin, >>>> contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to get out >>>> of that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive her, make >>>> up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do that to me >>>> I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would recommend marriage >>>> counseling, forgive forget stay married and move on. Besides all >>>> the research shows that divorce is bad for children. My priority is >>>> to keep my family together. If she makes a mistake she makes a >>>> mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why she >>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. I >>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>> divorce. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4 >> 0earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:22:47 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: <004f01cbcb3e$0e230ca0$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original What is Scott's email address? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>> in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>> was >>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>> read >>>> >>>> or >>>> hear for ourselves. >>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>> convention. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>> like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>> Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>>>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>>>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>>>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived >>>>> online, and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google >>>>> can see the posts we write. We need to think about posting things >>>>> that make our list and our organization look like a place that >>>>> people would want to go to get information about blindness. Posts >>>>> that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about >>>>> blindness are likely to turn off people who could be future >>>>> members of our organization. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>> >>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>> Reading >>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>> out >>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>> adultry >>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>> to >>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>> her. >>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>> and >>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>> she >>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>> divorce. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:23:07 -0500 From: Greg Aikens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Some hats seem to work fine without blocking auditory clues. Also, some looser fitting hoodies can break the wind and cover your ears without hindering auditory clues. GregOn Feb 12, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Marcia, > > Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used > to winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure it is difficult > for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it doesn't seem > appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you were > not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will always be > easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel challenges as > something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find people who will be supportive. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > > On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: > >> Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to >> the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I >> am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has >> just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor >> never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 >> feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. >> *being very sarcastic >> here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >> center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >> because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess >> it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >> loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, >> it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might >> say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to >> go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. > >> Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so >> quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't >> do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and >> tricks others have to say about this. > >> This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL > >> Marsha > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel > >> Hi all, > >> I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >> cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >> cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >> found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >> high winds? > >> Arielle > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth >> %40gmai >> l.com >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> >> > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobso >> n%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gma > il.com ------------------------------ Message: 43 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:26:39 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > What is Scott's email address? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >> Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the >>>>> convention in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you >>>>> explain? What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other >>>>> centers or was >>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>> read >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>> convention. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>> >>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>>> like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>>> Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what >>>>>> we want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to >>>>>> minimize clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may >>>>>> not be interested in the discussion. Second, this list is >>>>>> archived online, and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness >>>>>> on Google can see the posts we write. We need to think about >>>>>> posting things that make our list and our organization look like >>>>>> a place that people would want to go to get information about >>>>>> blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could >>>>>> be future members of our organization. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>>>> First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. >>>>>>> Second I would point out >>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>> her. >>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason >>>>>>> for divorce. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>> Email: >>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>> Website: >>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 44 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500 From: Greg Aikens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have not tried their software, but from what I understand, their method of teaching language is highly visual in nature. It involves looking at pictures/videos and saying out loud what is happening in the foreign language. The idea is to get you to think in a foreign language by connecting what you see to what you are saying without translating to english first. I haven't used their products but I checked out the program a couple years back because I was interested. This was the understanding I got and it turned me off. An accessible alternative is languagepod101.com. They have courses available in a whole bunch of languages. I have been using their russian site to try and learn some russian and it has been very accessible. Hope this helps. Greg On Feb 12, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Bre B wrote: > On 2/12/2011 4:05 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Hi all: >> Just wondering, >> has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? >> If so, >> is it accessible with Voice Over? >> >> Or JAWS? >> >> I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, >> but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jesusfreak262%40 gmail.com > Ah Yes, I have been wondering about the accessibility of Roseta > Stone. I have jaws, but I am planning to get a mac at some point. Bre > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gma > il.com ------------------------------ Message: 45 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:33:16 -0500 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: <006501cbcb3f$84cc70c0$9560c747 at BRIAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do I find the speech? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> What is Scott's email address? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>> Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the >>>>>> convention >>>>>> in >>>>>> Dalas >>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>> was >>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>> read >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>> convention. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising >>>>>> people to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech >>>>>> about the prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such >>>>>> center, like the individual giving the speech was referring to. >>>>>> Blessings, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I would >>>>>>> advise >>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>>>>> First I would >>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason >>>>>>>> for divorce. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net ------------------------------ Message: 46 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:37:33 -0600 From: Joshua Lester To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The speech isn't on the site, but his E-mail address is. Go to www.cocenter.org. Blessings, Joshua On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > What is their website? Also after I navigate onto it how and where do > I find the speech? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > > >> You can find it on the Colorado Center for the Blind's Website. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> What is Scott's email address? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>> >>> >>>> Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, >>>> Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>>> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>>>>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the >>>>>>> convention in Dalas >>>>>>> and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>>>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>>>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> hear for ourselves. >>>>>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>>>>> convention. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising >>>>>>> people to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech >>>>>>> about the prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one >>>>>>> such center, like the individual giving the speech was referring >>>>>>> to. Blessings, Joshua >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has >>>>>>>> veered quite a bit away from the original topic of training >>>>>>>> centers. I would advise >>>>>>>> you to all be aware of two things when deciding to post to the NABS >>>>>>>> list. First, be mindful of other people's email mailboxes. I would >>>>>>>> urge all of us to make an effort to say what we want to say >>>>>>>> succinctly >>>>>>>> in one or two messages so as to minimize clutter to other people's >>>>>>>> inboxes, people who may or may not be interested in the discussion. >>>>>>>> Second, this list is archived online, and anybody who searches for >>>>>>>> NABS or blindness on Google can see the posts we write. We need to >>>>>>>> think about posting things that make our list and our organization >>>>>>>> look like a place that people would want to go to get information >>>>>>>> about blindness. Posts that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful >>>>>>>> content about blindness are likely to turn off people who could be >>>>>>>> future members of our organization. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>>>>> Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? >>>>>>>>> First I would >>>>>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>>>>> adultry >>>>>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>>>>> her. >>>>>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out >>>>>>>>> why >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would >>>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason >>>>>>>>> for divorce. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Josh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.p >>>>>>>>> resident%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>>>>> Website: >>>>>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester >>>>>>>> 8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>> info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela >> kas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40 > students.pccua.edu > ------------------------------ Message: 47 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:44:00 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalais Message-ID: <82D0BA98805740C09A0D6AA34D2EDDBB at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Brian, did you hear it live? Many of the speeches were recorded and placed online. I'll see if his was. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brian Hatgelakas Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas What is Scott's email address? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas > Well, since you're interested, E-mail Mr. Scott LaBarre. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I'd love to read a coppy of that dalais speech! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joshua Lester" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] speech in Dalas >> >> >>> Ashley, E-mail me off list. I'm sure this gentleman wouldn't like >>> for his name to be mentioned on this list. Thanks, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/12/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> Do you mean last convention? For those who attended the convention >>>> in Dalas and heard the speech about the prison, can you explain? >>>> What was the speech about and by whom? Was it about other centers or >>>> was >>>> prison more of a metaphor? >>>> A transcript or link to the speech online would be helpful so we can >>>> read >>>> >>>> or >>>> hear for ourselves. >>>> This caught my attention for a speech to be about a prison at >>>> convention. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joshua Lester >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:02 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world >>>> >>>> I'm in agreement with you, Ms. Silverman. I'm just advising people >>>> to stay away from a scam. If anyone remembers The speech about the >>>> prison, from the convention in Dallas, LWSB is one such center, >>>> like the individual giving the speech was referring to. Blessings, >>>> Joshua >>>> >>>> On 2/12/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I think I don't have to tell you that this discussion has veered >>>>> quite a bit away from the original topic of training centers. I >>>>> would advise you to all be aware of two things when deciding to >>>>> post to the NABS list. First, be mindful of other people's email >>>>> mailboxes. I would urge all of us to make an effort to say what we >>>>> want to say succinctly in one or two messages so as to minimize >>>>> clutter to other people's inboxes, people who may or may not be >>>>> interested in the discussion. Second, this list is archived >>>>> online, and anybody who searches for NABS or blindness on Google >>>>> can see the posts we write. We need to think about posting things >>>>> that make our list and our organization look like a place that >>>>> people would want to go to get information about blindness. Posts >>>>> that are inflammatory or that lack meaningful content about >>>>> blindness are likely to turn off people who could be future >>>>> members of our organization. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Arielle Silverman, President >>>>> National Association of blind Students >>>>> >>>>> On 2/12/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>>>> hi brian, >>>>>> >>>>>> in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted person in >>>>>> Reading >>>>>> or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I do? First I would >>>>>> forgive her for committing adultry against me. Second I would point >>>>>> out >>>>>> to both her and the person she was with that they are committing >>>>>> adultry >>>>>> by doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of God. I >>>>>> would next encourage her to get out of that relationship as soon as >>>>>> possible. I would forgive her, make up and move on and stay married >>>>>> to >>>>>> her. If she would do that to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce >>>>>> her. >>>>>> I would recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married >>>>>> and >>>>>> move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is bad for >>>>>> children. My priority is to keep my family together. If she makes a >>>>>> mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog with her to find out why >>>>>> she >>>>>> did such a thing. Most people would divorce their wives, I would not. >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't find cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for >>>>>> divorce. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%4 0gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st udents.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4 >> 0students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas %40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthlink.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 26 ************************************** _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 16:32:07 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 11:32:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bridgit, Speak for yourself lady. When the sun goes down and my black cape comes out, I feel pretty damn heroic. LOL Seriously though, people should consider buying those shoes with little spikes on the soles. I got a pair for Christmas a few years ago. I thought they were a bit goofy, but I probably look even sillier trying to slowly walk through the ice on regular shoes. I too have a worry about muffling the sound by wearing a hat, but earmuffs work pretty well at keeping your ears warm and the sound unfiltered. These too, I thought, didn't make me look very manly-like, but I think they have their uses. Someone a few years ago recommended hanging a luggage locator from your porch to better find your house in the midst of the snow. If you shovel your snow like a good little citizen, this may not be necessary, but then again, if the snow is constantly falling and shoveling is almost pointless, it's an amusing little idea worth mulling over. I say "almost" because during last year's blizzard here in the District, we quickly learned it would have been a lot easier to stay on top of the snow and prevent the few feet of ice we had to contend with afterward. On the subject of snow, I think it's a great opportunity to help your neighbors shovel their sidewalks and driveways. What better education opportunity than to show you can pitch in to help others? It's one of those things for which no sight is needed to shovel and pile up. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 2:45 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel Marsha, First, no one is "super" anything-- that goes for blind people too. True, some may understand cardinal directions better, and some have an inate ability to quickly navigate new surroundings, but we are human-- not cookie-cutter versions of one another. If anyone caused you-- or anyone else-- to feel inferior because of struggling in nasty, winter conditions, I would assume said person has never independently traveled in such conditions. Sighted and blind, we all lose our direction, and we all can become disoriented. The true test of good skills is when you refuse to give up and keep truckin'. We should work on using any skills and methods available to us. We should live as independently as we can-- and by this, I mean pursuing our goals efficiently, living by our own terms and not what others direct, and setting a positive example as a blind person, and as an individual in general. We strengthen our own lives as well as those around us when following this path. This does not mean, however, that you will not make mistakes or lose focus at times. Training at an NFB center, or other similar center, does not ensure a life devoid of mistakes or challenges. What it does ensure is that you will be armored with the proper tools, methods, attitudes and support to help you navigate challenges. You mentioned an hearing impairment-- this, of course, adds another dimension to your "skills" used for dealing with weather related issues when traveling. It does not mean it is impossible, but it certainly presents a challenge, and one, I might add, you seem to have overcome. I have mild neuropathy so Braille is not always efficient for me. I have spent the last 8 years being embarrassed by this, but I realized it is out of my control. Others can think what they want about the lack of my Braille reading; I know the truth. I know Braille, and I use it as often as I can. We all learn at different paces, and we all have strengths as well as flaws. Anyone implying that difficulty when traversing city streets during winter,, or other unfriendly weather, is due to a lack of ability with mobility skills, has their own issues to deal with. These mindsets-- attitudes-- do not fill people with a desire to attend a training center, or join the Federation. They simply turn people off, and give us rational, open-minded people, a bad name. Bridgit Message: 28 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 13 17:32:36 2011 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:32:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] lions world In-Reply-To: <001101cbcb14$d2c01820$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <817666.34104.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jerry, Jerry, Jerry...... Maybe we will find out on da next Morie... LMAO... --- On Sat, 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 7:27 PM > Some people do this if their spouse > is away for a long period I hope she keeps her faithfulness > to you while you are away! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:29 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] lions world > > > > hi brian, > > > > in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted > person in Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what > would I do? First I would forgive her for committing adultry > against me. Second I would point out to both her and the > person she was with that they are committing adultry by > doing this which is a mortal sin, contrary to the will of > God. I would next encourage her to get out of that > relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive her, make > up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do that > to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would > recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married > and move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is > bad for children. My priority is to keep my family together. > If she makes a mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog > with her to find out why she did such a thing. Most people > would divorce their wives, I would not. I don't find > cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for > divorce. > > > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > ____________________________________________________________________________________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 17:33:12 2011 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:33:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: <2EE083F5152A485E86F9D4CFE302B042@OwnerPC> References: <2EE083F5152A485E86F9D4CFE302B042@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashly, I do try to stay orientated. At least now I know am not the only one. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Marsha, When landmarks are covered its hard. Just do the best you can. In snow, the snow is heavier on grass. I use that edge as a shoreline. I can't hear echos as well in the wind and snow. I have vision too so look for buildings; but also listen for other cues like opening doors or a heat vent noise. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:15 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Hi all, I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high winds? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5870 (20110213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5870 (20110213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 17:56:12 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:56:12 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] [nfb-talk] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation In-Reply-To: References: <50F1F759950B4FE594D3A0B10839D163@Rufus> Message-ID: I wonder if they have factored in customer service with regards to the public transportation piece of this. You also have to factor in how tourest friendly the city may be. From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 18:24:43 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:24:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Message-ID: <005a01cbcbab$49fdb140$ddf913c0$@com> Hi Ashley, Yes, I understand what you are saying. I was thinking that you could have the reader there to notate the corrections you want to make after you find them by reading a Braille copy of the article. True though it may be that you could cheat by accessing notes on your BrailleNote if you were reading the article on its refreshable display, you could certainly also cheat, by having access to all your notes, as well as nearly unlimited time to look for errors in the article, if you took the article home ahead of time and transcribed it yourself. You see what I mean? On a tangentially related note, and not having anything to do with you in particular, Ashley, it drives me crazy sometimes how much leeway is given to blind students on exams, when the leeway clearly opens up the option of cheating for a student. I don't know if many professors/alternative testing administrators just assume that these sweet little blind kids would never cheat on an exam, or what, but many many times in college, the only thing that stopped me from cheating my ass off was my own sense of what was the right thing to do. It amazes me how many students are allowed to use notetakers and laptops (with internet connections), get copies of tests ahead of time, or email in test answers well after the testing period is over. If we want our work to be viewed just like anybody else's, it is important that our accommodations do not compromise the integrity of our work. It seems to me that, given your completely reasonable request to have a Braille version of the articles you are to edit, the onus is on the school to find a way to provide them to you. Having them talk to GMU or another local establishment with Braille production capabilities seems like a good idea. Good luck, Sean From steve.jacobson at visi.com Sun Feb 13 18:28:51 2011 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:28:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jewel, I am sorry if you got sick because of not wearing a hat, but this is something that individuals have to work out for themselves. I routinely don't wear a hat down to close to zero and I have never gotten sick in a way I can attribute to not wearing a hat. I am not saying that is necessarily wise, only that there just are not hard and fast rules than can be broadly applied. It is also possible to simply remove one's hat when crossing a street, for example, to have the best of both worlds. I also have no doubt that some have conditions that require that the head be protected well. What I hate to see is blind people being afraid of winter travel and staying home without figuring out what can be done. There are clearly things we need to be aware of and should discuss, but for many of us, winter happens every year and we can't afford to let it confine us too much. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:27:29 -0500, Jewel S. wrote: >Hey guys, >I highly disagree with the idea that you shouldn't wear a hat. The >risk of a slightly dampened hearing is not nearly as bad as the risk >of getting severely sick because your head was bare in below freezing >temperatures. I know, I did it, and now I'm sick as a dog! >Someone mentioned using your cane as balance. An alternative to this, >as leaning on the cane can bend it and mess up the swing of the cane, >is to get a support cane for in the winter. I have one year-round due >to physical issues, but it is even more useful in ice and snow. You >can get an inexpensive folding support cane from a discount store like >Wal-Mart for around $10. I say folding because then you can put it >away when you get inside...if you don't need it, why have it out? >If your dog accepts booties on h is feet, there are non-skid booties >out there that are great for pups. Keeps their feet warm and keeps >them from slipping and injuring themselves. Also, if it is *very* cold >weather, you might consider getting a dog sweater. Not sure how these >work with harnesses, but I would suspect that since the harness is >adjustable, you could put it under the harness without too much >trouble since most are not very thick but nice and warm. >Back to cane travel. If the sidewalk is not available but snow has >been cleared from the road, tap the curb as you go by. I know, many >times snow is piled up on the curb (super unsafe), but often ice and >snow stay on sidewalks much longer than on roads and curbs, since >people take care of the roads and leave the sidewalks up to the >individual home owners. >If the sidewalk in front of your home is prone to ice, as soon as the >snow or sleet is on the ground, go out and mess it up. Shuffle yor >foot through it, sweep your cane back and forth, have your kids or >neighbour's kids play in it. Rouch snow or ice, when packed down, is >much better than smooth snow/ice! >On 2/13/11, Greg Aikens wrote: >> >> Some hats seem to work fine without blocking auditory clues. Also, some >> looser fitting hoodies can break the wind and cover your ears without >> hindering auditory clues. >> >> GregOn Feb 12, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> >>> Marcia, >>> >>> Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used to >>> winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am sure >>> it is difficult >>> for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take >>> some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it >>> doesn't seem >>> appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures you >>> might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you >>> were >>> not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who master >>> such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will >>> always be >>> easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the >>> possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel >>> challenges as >>> something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find >>> people who will be supportive. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: >>> >>>> Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the >>>> northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am >>>> doing >>>> wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best >>>> mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be >>>> disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow >>>> on >>>> the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic >>>> here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >>>> center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >>>> because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I >>>> guess >>>> it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing >>>> loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry >>>> guys, >>>> it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you >>>> might >>>> say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing >>>> to >>>> go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. >>>> >>> >>>> Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick >>>> to >>>> judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I >>>> will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have >>>> to >>>> say about this. >>> >>>> This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >>> >>>> Marsha >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >>> >>>> Hi all, >>> >>>> I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >>>> cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >>>> cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >>>> found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >>>> high winds? >>> >>>> Arielle >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >>>> l.com >>>> >>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >-- >~Jewel >Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 18:36:04 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:36:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] capella Message-ID: <4D582494.4010302@gmail.com> Hi yes Jackie is the disabilities coordinater there. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 18:38:48 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:38:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world Message-ID: <4D582538.1090607@gmail.com> Hi joshua, My wife is not sighted. my wife is blind. I am blind also my son who is three years old, he is sighted. but my wife and I are both totally blind. she uses Jaws I use NVDA. Josh From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 18:46:01 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:46:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world In-Reply-To: <4D582538.1090607@gmail.com> References: <4D582538.1090607@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've never heard of NVDA. I'm interested though. I hate how Jaws reads too much unwanted junk. Maybe, I should start another thread to discuss this, but it reads every little detail. It even reads the periods as "dot dot dot," when there's a list of links. It gets old, and I hate the robotic voice. Blessings, Joshua On 2/13/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi joshua, > > My wife is not sighted. my wife is blind. I am blind also my son who is > three years old, he is sighted. but my wife and I are both totally > blind. she uses Jaws I use NVDA. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 18:46:27 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:46:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re winter weather travel Message-ID: <4D582703.5050005@gmail.com> Hi yes, it always helps to have a braille compass or gps or both along with you when traveling. I find my compass and gps very helpful. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 18:47:55 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:47:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] winter weather travel Message-ID: <4D58275B.3000101@gmail.com> Hi I don't wear a hat either. It messes up my sound queues when trying to cross streets and things. or when crossing I take my hat off, cross, then put it back on. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 19:02:04 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 14:02:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re rosetta stone Message-ID: <4D582AAC.1000909@gmail.com> Hi I am disappointed. languagepod101.com does not have languages lessons for the finnish language, the icelandic language or the irish gaelic language. I am interested in German so will download and learn German with their podcasts. but if I could somehow learn finnish icelandic and irish gaelic? that would be excellent. I did email languagepod101 about those languages. a few moments ago. Josh From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 19:06:36 2011 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:06:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jewel and all, know that not wearing a hat has inherent risks, but I have accepted those risks and find traveling to be a little bit easier when I have full hearing instead of muffled hearing. This is more fo9r just crossing streets, as I sometimes need to find a building line, door, or something else that my hearing would help with. I am not telling everyone to go out without a hat when it's cold. I was just saying that that is what I do, and it helps me. If you don't want to do this, or think that you might harm yourself by doing so, then please don't. Another alternative to all this is to wear a baseball cap as it will retain some heat but will leave your ears open to hearing. Thanks Nimer J On 13/02/2011, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Jewel, > > I am sorry if you got sick because of not wearing a hat, but this is > something that individuals have to work out for > themselves. I routinely don't wear a hat down to close to zero and I have > never gotten sick in a way I can attribute to > not wearing a hat. I am not saying that is necessarily wise, only that > there just are not hard and fast rules than can be > broadly applied. It is also possible to simply remove one's hat when > crossing a street, for example, to have the best of > both worlds. I also have no doubt that some have conditions that require > that the head be protected well. What I > hate to see is blind people being afraid of winter travel and staying home > without figuring out what can be done. > There are clearly things we need to be aware of and should discuss, but for > many of us, winter happens every year > and we can't afford to let it confine us too much. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:27:29 -0500, Jewel S. wrote: > >>Hey guys, >>I highly disagree with the idea that you shouldn't wear a hat. The >>risk of a slightly dampened hearing is not nearly as bad as the risk >>of getting severely sick because your head was bare in below freezing >>temperatures. I know, I did it, and now I'm sick as a dog! > >>Someone mentioned using your cane as balance. An alternative to this, >>as leaning on the cane can bend it and mess up the swing of the cane, >>is to get a support cane for in the winter. I have one year-round due >>to physical issues, but it is even more useful in ice and snow. You >>can get an inexpensive folding support cane from a discount store like >>Wal-Mart for around $10. I say folding because then you can put it >>away when you get inside...if you don't need it, why have it out? > >>If your dog accepts booties on h is feet, there are non-skid booties >>out there that are great for pups. Keeps their feet warm and keeps >>them from slipping and injuring themselves. Also, if it is *very* cold >>weather, you might consider getting a dog sweater. Not sure how these >>work with harnesses, but I would suspect that since the harness is >>adjustable, you could put it under the harness without too much >>trouble since most are not very thick but nice and warm. > >>Back to cane travel. If the sidewalk is not available but snow has >>been cleared from the road, tap the curb as you go by. I know, many >>times snow is piled up on the curb (super unsafe), but often ice and >>snow stay on sidewalks much longer than on roads and curbs, since >>people take care of the roads and leave the sidewalks up to the >>individual home owners. > >>If the sidewalk in front of your home is prone to ice, as soon as the >>snow or sleet is on the ground, go out and mess it up. Shuffle yor >>foot through it, sweep your cane back and forth, have your kids or >>neighbour's kids play in it. Rouch snow or ice, when packed down, is >>much better than smooth snow/ice! > > > >>On 2/13/11, Greg Aikens wrote: >>> >>> Some hats seem to work fine without blocking auditory clues. Also, some >>> looser fitting hoodies can break the wind and cover your ears without >>> hindering auditory clues. >>> >>> GregOn Feb 12, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> >>>> Marcia, >>>> >>>> Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used >>>> to >>>> winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am >>>> sure >>>> it is difficult >>>> for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can take >>>> some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it >>>> doesn't seem >>>> appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures >>>> you >>>> might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you >>>> were >>>> not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who >>>> master >>>> such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel will >>>> always be >>>> easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the >>>> possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter travel >>>> challenges as >>>> something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find >>>> people who will be supportive. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobson >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: >>>> >>>>> Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to >>>>> the >>>>> northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am >>>>> doing >>>>> wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best >>>>> mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be >>>>> disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of >>>>> snow >>>>> on >>>>> the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very >>>>> sarcastic >>>>> here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a >>>>> training >>>>> center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >>>>> because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I >>>>> guess >>>>> it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a >>>>> hearing >>>>> loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry >>>>> guys, >>>>> it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you >>>>> might >>>>> say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into >>>>> needing >>>>> to >>>>> go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will >>>>> be. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so >>>>> quick >>>>> to >>>>> judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. >>>>> I >>>>> will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have >>>>> to >>>>> say about this. >>>> >>>>> This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>> I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >>>>> cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >>>>> cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >>>>> found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >>>>> high winds? >>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> > > >>-- >>~Jewel >>Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sun Feb 13 19:59:32 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 11:59:32 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone Message-ID: <20110213195949.VUAV19767.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Hi All, I'm not sure how accessible it is, but I'm definitely interested as well. I've used Pimsleur for learning Mandarine and a little Spanish in the past and it is very accessible. They are audio files that can be purchased online or on cd. Hope this helps and feel free to ask questions. Cheers, Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Greg Aikens To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 00:31:01 -0500 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Rosetta Stone >I have not tried their software, but from what I understand, their method of teaching language is highly visual in nature. It involves looking at pictures/videos and saying out loud what is happening in the foreign language. The idea is to get you to think in a foreign language by connecting what you see to what you are saying without translating to english first. >I haven't used their products but I checked out the program a couple years back because I was interested. This was the understanding I got and it turned me off. >An accessible alternative is languagepod101.com. They have courses available in a whole bunch of languages. I have been using their russian site to try and learn some russian and it has been very accessible. >Hope this helps. >Greg >On Feb 12, 2011, at 11:55 PM, Bre B wrote: >> On 2/12/2011 4:05 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> Hi all: >>> Just wondering, >>> has anyone ever used Rosetta Stone? >>> If so, >>> is it accessible with Voice Over? >>> Or JAWS? >>> I'd prefer Voice Over as Mac's my primary system, >>> but I could alwasy add it to the Windows side of things I guess. >>> Thanks, >>> Jorge >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jesusfrea k262%40gmail.com >> Ah Yes, I have been wondering about the accessibility of Roseta Stone. I have jaws, but I am planning to get a mac at some point. >> Bre >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens% 40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 20:45:29 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:45:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5408C42793AA4816BA0845DBE313F58F@OwnerPC> I think we should wear hats. I see buildings which might help too. But what I do is cover my ears partway so I can still hear. Alternatively, I cover it all the way and just raise the hat a little when needing to hear more information like at a street. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Nimer Jaber Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 2:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Jewel and all, know that not wearing a hat has inherent risks, but I have accepted those risks and find traveling to be a little bit easier when I have full hearing instead of muffled hearing. This is more fo9r just crossing streets, as I sometimes need to find a building line, door, or something else that my hearing would help with. I am not telling everyone to go out without a hat when it's cold. I was just saying that that is what I do, and it helps me. If you don't want to do this, or think that you might harm yourself by doing so, then please don't. Another alternative to all this is to wear a baseball cap as it will retain some heat but will leave your ears open to hearing. Thanks Nimer J On 13/02/2011, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Jewel, > > I am sorry if you got sick because of not wearing a hat, but this is > something that individuals have to work out for > themselves. I routinely don't wear a hat down to close to zero and I have > never gotten sick in a way I can attribute to > not wearing a hat. I am not saying that is necessarily wise, only that > there just are not hard and fast rules than can be > broadly applied. It is also possible to simply remove one's hat when > crossing a street, for example, to have the best of > both worlds. I also have no doubt that some have conditions that require > that the head be protected well. What I > hate to see is blind people being afraid of winter travel and staying home > without figuring out what can be done. > There are clearly things we need to be aware of and should discuss, but > for > many of us, winter happens every year > and we can't afford to let it confine us too much. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:27:29 -0500, Jewel S. wrote: > >>Hey guys, >>I highly disagree with the idea that you shouldn't wear a hat. The >>risk of a slightly dampened hearing is not nearly as bad as the risk >>of getting severely sick because your head was bare in below freezing >>temperatures. I know, I did it, and now I'm sick as a dog! > >>Someone mentioned using your cane as balance. An alternative to this, >>as leaning on the cane can bend it and mess up the swing of the cane, >>is to get a support cane for in the winter. I have one year-round due >>to physical issues, but it is even more useful in ice and snow. You >>can get an inexpensive folding support cane from a discount store like >>Wal-Mart for around $10. I say folding because then you can put it >>away when you get inside...if you don't need it, why have it out? > >>If your dog accepts booties on h is feet, there are non-skid booties >>out there that are great for pups. Keeps their feet warm and keeps >>them from slipping and injuring themselves. Also, if it is *very* cold >>weather, you might consider getting a dog sweater. Not sure how these >>work with harnesses, but I would suspect that since the harness is >>adjustable, you could put it under the harness without too much >>trouble since most are not very thick but nice and warm. > >>Back to cane travel. If the sidewalk is not available but snow has >>been cleared from the road, tap the curb as you go by. I know, many >>times snow is piled up on the curb (super unsafe), but often ice and >>snow stay on sidewalks much longer than on roads and curbs, since >>people take care of the roads and leave the sidewalks up to the >>individual home owners. > >>If the sidewalk in front of your home is prone to ice, as soon as the >>snow or sleet is on the ground, go out and mess it up. Shuffle yor >>foot through it, sweep your cane back and forth, have your kids or >>neighbour's kids play in it. Rouch snow or ice, when packed down, is >>much better than smooth snow/ice! > > > >>On 2/13/11, Greg Aikens wrote: >>> >>> Some hats seem to work fine without blocking auditory clues. Also, some >>> looser fitting hoodies can break the wind and cover your ears without >>> hindering auditory clues. >>> >>> GregOn Feb 12, 2011, at 11:04 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> >>>> Marcia, >>>> >>>> Since I have lived in Minnesota all my life, I have gotten pretty used >>>> to >>>> winter travel. It is something one can adjust to over time, but I am >>>> sure >>>> it is difficult >>>> for those in areas that are getting unusual weather. Still, it can >>>> take >>>> some getting used to. Whether or not one has other disabilities, it >>>> doesn't seem >>>> appropriate to me for anyone to be laughing at whatever misadventures >>>> you >>>> might have unless you are also laughing at them, and I gather that you >>>> were >>>> not. However, I also don't believe it is just the super-blind who >>>> master >>>> such obstacles, either. It can take time and work, and such travel >>>> will >>>> always be >>>> easier for some than for others. I hope you don't write off the >>>> possibility that you might be able to overcome some of the winter >>>> travel >>>> challenges as >>>> something only the superblind can do, and I also hope that you can find >>>> people who will be supportive. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobson >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500, Marsha Drenth wrote: >>>> >>>>> Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to >>>>> the >>>>> northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am >>>>> doing >>>>> wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best >>>>> mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be >>>>> disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of >>>>> snow >>>>> on >>>>> the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very >>>>> sarcastic >>>>> here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a >>>>> training >>>>> center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >>>>> because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I >>>>> guess >>>>> it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a >>>>> hearing >>>>> loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry >>>>> guys, >>>>> it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you >>>>> might >>>>> say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into >>>>> needing >>>>> to >>>>> go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will >>>>> be. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so >>>>> quick >>>>> to >>>>> judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so >>>>> well. >>>>> I >>>>> will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others >>>>> have >>>>> to >>>>> say about this. >>>> >>>>> This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>> I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually >>>>> cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for >>>>> cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have >>>>> found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or >>>>> high winds? >>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai >>>>> l.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5868 (20110212) __________ >>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> > > >>-- >>~Jewel >>Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >>Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 20:52:21 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:52:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel In-Reply-To: References: <2EE083F5152A485E86F9D4CFE302B042@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Marsha, If you know your route in terms of compass directions like I need to walk three blocks north and this building is east of me. You could use a compass. Normally I use the sun as a cue for orientation, but in the winter its too cold to feel the sun adaquately. I've only traveled in the city, my yard, and campus when it snows and things have been pretty clear for sidewalks; guess I've been lucky. There are big mounds of snow on the grass and where gardens would be. So instead of a grassline to follow, I have a snow line. About hats, I do recommend proper winter clothes like them. I also use a scarf and boots if I'll be in the snow a long time. If I really need to hear something, I raise the hat so my ears are exposed or take it off and put it back on again when I heard what I need to. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:33 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Ashly, I do try to stay orientated. At least now I know am not the only one. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Marsha, When landmarks are covered its hard. Just do the best you can. In snow, the snow is heavier on grass. I use that edge as a shoreline. I can't hear echos as well in the wind and snow. I have vision too so look for buildings; but also listen for other cues like opening doors or a heat vent noise. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:15 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Hi all, I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high winds? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5870 (20110213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5870 (20110213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 20:54:22 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:54:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] winter weather travel In-Reply-To: <4D58275B.3000101@gmail.com> References: <4D58275B.3000101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1709015571064CA0829CFFF60D54F5FE@OwnerPC> Josh, be careful then that you don't get too cold like hyperthermia. Try ear muffs; some people can hear okay through them. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Josh Kennedy Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 1:47 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] winter weather travel Hi I don't wear a hat either. It messes up my sound queues when trying to cross streets and things. or when crossing I take my hat off, cross, then put it back on. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Sun Feb 13 21:22:08 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 21:22:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: <9E9174F243AD4C3293F3E631F149B50C@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <1969282086.746591.1297632128314.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello ashely, to help you out on this matter i took a couple of copy editing classes a few semesters ago and, when i did this for my tests i used a reader for them. as for the tests i did this and, for my homework i did them under my cctv. but, a reader would be recommendable for this class. i hope that i was able to help you out. take care and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 22:17:58 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Hi all, I’m taking an online editing class. We’re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said “ The tests “involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I’m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can’t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don’t have names, at least I don’t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we’re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I’ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 21:22:19 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:22:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: <005a01cbcbab$49fdb140$ddf913c0$@com> References: <005a01cbcbab$49fdb140$ddf913c0$@com> Message-ID: <4EB8BDE8C1FF45C29BD6591577FA1F8C@OwnerPC> Sean, Wow, I never knew blind students had that much lee way. I was treated like other students, but with accomodations. They had procedures there so you would not be able to cheat easily. The only quizzes I took home were last semester when I did them electronically; we figured it would be easier to take a short quiz that way rather than going to the testing center who does not have a decent version of Jaws! The school is way behind in providing reasonable accomodations; jaws is old! I had to email my take home tests and quizzes at the same time as other students. I never questioned it as it seemed fair to me. Oh only one time for my counseling theories test I had an extra day for the take home, open book test. I went to George mason university, GMU, before Marymount university, mu. You said "It amazes me how many students are allowed to use notetakers and laptops (with internet connections), get copies of tests ahead of time, or email in test answers well after the testing period is over." At both schools that never happened. I took my test in the learning resource center, lrc, at mu and the dss office at GMU. In all cases, I had to leave my belongings in the main part of the dss office or lrc. They told me not to bring a phone either. I was not allowed to have a laptop or a notetaker with me. At mu they even wrote down the time you started and finished the test so your professor would know you did not get extra time than you were supposed to have. I'll add that these procedures were for all students with disabilities, not just blind students. I was treated like other students but got double time for tests. They had policies to ensure that you did not cheat or that someone was taking the test for you. At MU they also have you show your ID and sign the honor pledge. I was allowed to use the computer for essays though; but not allowed on the internet. Regarding my case, I'll see what the disability counselor says. She is going to get me a reader for the test; I'll have to explain that I need to read this part myself to ensure I pick up errors. I can braille it myself at home with my embosser, yet I don't know if they'll allow that. I'm an honest person and would never take advantage of time, but who knows. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Sean Whalen Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 1:24 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Assignments with copy editing Hi Ashley, Yes, I understand what you are saying. I was thinking that you could have the reader there to notate the corrections you want to make after you find them by reading a Braille copy of the article. True though it may be that you could cheat by accessing notes on your BrailleNote if you were reading the article on its refreshable display, you could certainly also cheat, by having access to all your notes, as well as nearly unlimited time to look for errors in the article, if you took the article home ahead of time and transcribed it yourself. You see what I mean? On a tangentially related note, and not having anything to do with you in particular, Ashley, it drives me crazy sometimes how much leeway is given to blind students on exams, when the leeway clearly opens up the option of cheating for a student. I don't know if many professors/alternative testing administrators just assume that these sweet little blind kids would never cheat on an exam, or what, but many many times in college, the only thing that stopped me from cheating my ass off was my own sense of what was the right thing to do. It amazes me how many students are allowed to use notetakers and laptops (with internet connections), get copies of tests ahead of time, or email in test answers well after the testing period is over. If we want our work to be viewed just like anybody else's, it is important that our accommodations do not compromise the integrity of our work. It seems to me that, given your completely reasonable request to have a Braille version of the articles you are to edit, the onus is on the school to find a way to provide them to you. Having them talk to GMU or another local establishment with Braille production capabilities seems like a good idea. Good luck, Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 21:30:28 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:30:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: <1969282086.746591.1297632128314.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1969282086.746591.1297632128314.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Amy, Oh, you were in communications so you would have done copy editing. How exactly did you work with the reader? Did they read slowly for you to hear the errors and you'd tell them what symbol to use? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Amy Sabo Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 4:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing hello ashely, to help you out on this matter i took a couple of copy editing classes a few semesters ago and, when i did this for my tests i used a reader for them. as for the tests i did this and, for my homework i did them under my cctv. but, a reader would be recommendable for this class. i hope that i was able to help you out. take care and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 22:17:58 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Hi all, I’m taking an online editing class. We’re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said “ The tests “involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I’m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can’t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don’t have names, at least I don’t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we’re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I’ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 21:32:13 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:32:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing In-Reply-To: <1969282086.746591.1297632128314.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1969282086.746591.1297632128314.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1837DA8D43F14BD7B4267CED4EF20DCE@OwnerPC> It was hard, but thank goodness I finally found readers! I knew I'd need some. There are so many foreign students at community college and students who just can't read well; so its harder to find decent readers. Most reader applicants last semester were from India or Pakastan with accents. This semester it wasn't so bad. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Amy Sabo Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 4:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing hello ashely, to help you out on this matter i took a couple of copy editing classes a few semesters ago and, when i did this for my tests i used a reader for them. as for the tests i did this and, for my homework i did them under my cctv. but, a reader would be recommendable for this class. i hope that i was able to help you out. take care and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 22:17:58 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] assignments with copy editing Hi all, I’m taking an online editing class. We’re supposed to apply editing symbols to some assignments Additionally we take tests in person at the testing center. The professor said “ The tests “involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.) So how can I do this part? I skipped over that symbol page when reading since its not text. Now I realize I need to use them. I thought about enlarging them and trying to see them with my vision, central vision. But what else can I do for this? I’m reading with a reader. Do I need to complete the visual work with a reader? Even then I can’t say reader draw a punctuation symbol because they don’t have names, at least I don’t think the symbols have names. The class is technical editing so we’re supposed to write business corespondence and edit existing documents. I’ll see if I cancopy directions from the next assignment so you see what its about. Thanks. Ashley Bramlett _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 21:43:34 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 14:43:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? Message-ID: Dear nabs list, I'm not really sure where to ask, but I have a few questions about our infamous 70 percent unemployment rate. So here goes: 1. When was the last time we obtained statistics about the unemployment rate of blind people? (in other words, has it changed at all, because I've been hearing 70 percent for a long, long time.) 2. Does this include cognatively disabled people, or is it 70 percent of those of us who are only blind? (I'm not really concerned about how people with other physical disabilities impact that statistic) 3. What are the unemployment rates for other blind people in western European countries? (that one might be addressed to the gentleman on the list who suggests we all pack our bags and get the heck out of America) And finally.... *big drumroll* 4. Of the blind people employed in the United States, what percentage work in the blindness field? Best, Kirt P.S. That last question wasn't meant in any kind of condescending or judgmental way at all, I'm just curious. As I've said earlier, I respect qualified blind people who work in the blindness arena. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 13 21:50:09 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:50:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This can be on the NABS list. In order to get a better answer, though, you must put it on the NFB talk list. Blessings, Joshua On 2/13/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear nabs list, > I'm not really sure where to ask, but I have a few questions about > our infamous 70 percent unemployment rate. So here goes: > 1. When was the last time we obtained statistics about the > unemployment rate of blind people? (in other words, has it changed at > all, because I've been hearing 70 percent for a long, long time.) > 2. Does this include cognatively disabled people, or is it 70 percent > of those of us who are only blind? (I'm not really concerned about > how people with other physical disabilities impact that statistic) > 3. What are the unemployment rates for other blind people in western > European countries? (that one might be addressed to the gentleman on > the list who suggests we all pack our bags and get the heck out of > America) > And finally.... *big drumroll* > 4. Of the blind people employed in the United States, what percentage > work in the blindness field? > Best, > Kirt > P.S. That last question wasn't meant in any kind of condescending or > judgmental way at all, I'm just curious. As I've said earlier, I > respect qualified blind people who work in the blindness arena. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 21:52:28 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 14:52:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Joshua, Must I? Good to know. :) All the best, Kirt On 2/13/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > This can be on the NABS list. In order to get a better answer, though, > you must put it on the NFB talk list. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/13/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear nabs list, >> I'm not really sure where to ask, but I have a few questions about >> our infamous 70 percent unemployment rate. So here goes: >> 1. When was the last time we obtained statistics about the >> unemployment rate of blind people? (in other words, has it changed at >> all, because I've been hearing 70 percent for a long, long time.) >> 2. Does this include cognatively disabled people, or is it 70 percent >> of those of us who are only blind? (I'm not really concerned about >> how people with other physical disabilities impact that statistic) >> 3. What are the unemployment rates for other blind people in western >> European countries? (that one might be addressed to the gentleman on >> the list who suggests we all pack our bags and get the heck out of >> America) >> And finally.... *big drumroll* >> 4. Of the blind people employed in the United States, what percentage >> work in the blindness field? >> Best, >> Kirt >> P.S. That last question wasn't meant in any kind of condescending or >> judgmental way at all, I'm just curious. As I've said earlier, I >> respect qualified blind people who work in the blindness arena. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 13 21:58:00 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:58:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve, I completely agree with you. The way cities and towns push snow up against curbs and sidewalks is ridiculous for everyone. The ice is the worse. Sheets of ice can be found with a cane, or when you step on it, you know right away, but when ice covers the piles of snows, it creates a mountainous type terrain. When there is no clear path, I hate having to step over icy snow mounds. Driveways are a good way to cross streets when sidewalks are not clear. When I stop by my husband's officeI have to have the bus driver drop me off in a nearby driveway instead of the usual drop off since the usual corner is always covered in snow. Plus, where he works, there are not true sidewalks. Through the years, the city has widened the streets taking away the sidewalks. When snow covers these sorry excuses for sidewalks, it is not safe to walk in the street since it is one of the busiest streets in our area. True, I have not changed my cane tip in almost 3 months. Interesting. I would think they would come off in the snow and ice, but not usually, for me! LOL Bridgit , Message: 15 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:36:41 -0600 From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bridgit, You have described well many of the things that I do as well. I think it is worth mentioning that high mounds of snow are not particularly convenient for sighted people, either. It sometimes bugs me a little at the extent to which society is willing to pay to keep roads clear but not to clear sidewalks, but of course I do see that there is a difference, too. We were joking here just the other night how much longer cane tips last during the winter. Another think worth mentioning is that often there is a nice path cleared from the sidewalk to the street, but it might not be aimed at the street you wish to cross. People will sometimes just shovel out one direction. Therefore, when looking for a way to get from the sidewalk to the street or from the street to the sidewalk, it is worth cheching around the corner to see if there is an opening before climging over a large pile of snow. Also, one should not overlook driveways as a way to get from sidewalk to street if you know a corner has not been shoveled out. Frankly, sometimes even if all the openings are present and the street is not too busy, it is easier to walk on the street because they are often cleared better than the sidewalk. Best regards, Steve Jacobson From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 13 22:05:35 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:05:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74C68CB2C2F04A83B1ABDE49E1726A41@OwnerPC> Hi, Its an old AFB stastic and I heard it includes those with other challenges, like cognitive impairment. For other western countries, goole will help. Something like the Canadian National institute for the blind may help. AFB may also have stats for other countries. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 4:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? This can be on the NABS list. In order to get a better answer, though, you must put it on the NFB talk list. Blessings, Joshua On 2/13/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear nabs list, > I'm not really sure where to ask, but I have a few questions about > our infamous 70 percent unemployment rate. So here goes: > 1. When was the last time we obtained statistics about the > unemployment rate of blind people? (in other words, has it changed at > all, because I've been hearing 70 percent for a long, long time.) > 2. Does this include cognatively disabled people, or is it 70 percent > of those of us who are only blind? (I'm not really concerned about > how people with other physical disabilities impact that statistic) > 3. What are the unemployment rates for other blind people in western > European countries? (that one might be addressed to the gentleman on > the list who suggests we all pack our bags and get the heck out of > America) > And finally.... *big drumroll* > 4. Of the blind people employed in the United States, what percentage > work in the blindness field? > Best, > Kirt > P.S. That last question wasn't meant in any kind of condescending or > judgmental way at all, I'm just curious. As I've said earlier, I > respect qualified blind people who work in the blindness arena. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Sun Feb 13 22:30:42 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 16:30:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 28 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joe, Well, you're an exception. We should call you Super Blind Man, or something! LOL I have more trouble with sound when I cover my head during rain. Not sure why, but in the winter, it is not so much a problem. I use one of those thermal headbands-- it coordinates with my coat! *smile* My mother-in-law has also mentioned these things you wear over your shoes to help with ice. I think you can find them at places like Bass Pro shop, but probably Wal-mart too. To smush snow down, you could go out and make snow angels too. Then you have flattened snow, and a decorative lawn! *smile* Bridgit Message: 1 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 11:32:07 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bridgit, Speak for yourself lady. When the sun goes down and my black cape comes out, I feel pretty damn heroic. LOL Seriously though, people should consider buying those shoes with little spikes on the soles. I got a pair for Christmas a few years ago. I thought they were a bit goofy, but I probably look even sillier trying to slowly walk through the ice on regular shoes. I too have a worry about muffling the sound by wearing a hat, but earmuffs work pretty well at keeping your ears warm and the sound unfiltered. These too, I thought, didn't make me look very manly-like, but I think they have their uses. Someone a few years ago recommended hanging a luggage locator from your porch to better find your house in the midst of the snow. If you shovel your snow like a good little citizen, this may not be necessary, but then again, if the snow is constantly falling and shoveling is almost pointless, it's an amusing little idea worth mulling over. I say "almost" because during last year's blizzard here in the District, we quickly learned it would have been a lot easier to stay on top of the snow and prevent the few feet of ice we had to contend with afterward. On the subject of snow, I think it's a great opportunity to help your neighbors shovel their sidewalks and driveways. What better education opportunity than to show you can pitch in to help others? It's one of those things for which no sight is needed to shovel and pile up. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 2:45 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel Marsha, First, no one is "super" anything-- that goes for blind people too. True, some may understand cardinal directions better, and some have an inate ability to quickly navigate new surroundings, but we are human-- not cookie-cutter versions of one another. If anyone caused you-- or anyone else-- to feel inferior because of struggling in nasty, winter conditions, I would assume said person has never independently traveled in such conditions. Sighted and blind, we all lose our direction, and we all can become disoriented. The true test of good skills is when you refuse to give up and keep truckin'. We should work on using any skills and methods available to us. We should live as independently as we can-- and by this, I mean pursuing our goals efficiently, living by our own terms and not what others direct, and setting a positive example as a blind person, and as an individual in general. We strengthen our own lives as well as those around us when following this path. This does not mean, however, that you will not make mistakes or lose focus at times. Training at an NFB center, or other similar center, does not ensure a life devoid of mistakes or challenges. What it does ensure is that you will be armored with the proper tools, methods, attitudes and support to help you navigate challenges. You mentioned an hearing impairment-- this, of course, adds another dimension to your "skills" used for dealing with weather related issues when traveling. It does not mean it is impossible, but it certainly presents a challenge, and one, I might add, you seem to have overcome. I have mild neuropathy so Braille is not always efficient for me. I have spent the last 8 years being embarrassed by this, but I realized it is out of my control. Others can think what they want about the lack of my Braille reading; I know the truth. I know Braille, and I use it as often as I can. We all learn at different paces, and we all have strengths as well as flaws. Anyone implying that difficulty when traversing city streets during winter,, or other unfriendly weather, is due to a lack of ability with mobility skills, has their own issues to deal with. These mindsets-- attitudes-- do not fill people with a desire to attend a training center, or join the Federation. They simply turn people off, and give us rational, open-minded people, a bad name. Bridgit Message: 28 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:32:36 -0800 (PST) From: William ODonnell To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world Message-ID: <817666.34104.qm at web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jerry, Jerry, Jerry...... Maybe we will find out on da next Morie... LMAO... --- On Sat, 2/12/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > From: Brian Hatgelakas > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] lions world > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 7:27 PM > Some people do this if their spouse > is away for a long period I hope she keeps her faithfulness > to you while you are away! > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:29 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] lions world > > > > hi brian, > > > > in reply to what would I do if my wife met a sighted > person in Reading or philadelphia to get her needs met, what would I > do? First I would forgive her for committing adultry against me. > Second I would point out to both her and the person she was with that > they are committing adultry by doing this which is a mortal sin, > contrary to the will of God. I would next encourage her to get out of > that relationship as soon as possible. I would forgive her, make > up and move on and stay married to her. If she would do that > to me I would not, I repeat not, divorce her. I would > recommend marriage counseling, forgive forget stay married > and move on. Besides all the research shows that divorce is > bad for children. My priority is to keep my family together. > If she makes a mistake she makes a mistake. I would dialog > with her to find out why she did such a thing. Most people > would divorce their wives, I would not. I don't find > cheating on one's spouse to be a sufficient reason for > divorce. > > > > Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgel > > akas%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonne > ll1%40yahoo.com > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 12:33:12 -0500 From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Ashly, I do try to stay orientated. At least now I know am not the only one. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Marsha, When landmarks are covered its hard. Just do the best you can. In snow, the snow is heavier on grass. I use that edge as a shoreline. I can't hear echos as well in the wind and snow. I have vision too so look for buildings; but also listen for other cues like opening doors or a heat vent noise. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Marsha Drenth Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:15 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very sarcastic here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind person, nor ever will be. Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks others have to say about this. This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:51 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel Hi all, I'm sure many of you are experiencing the effects of our unusually cold and snowy winter this year, which can pose unique challenges for cane and guide dog travel. Have you discovered any tricks you have found helpful for staying oriented while walking in snow, ice, and/or high winds? Arielle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40 gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ea rthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40 gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5868 (20110212) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5870 (20110213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5870 (20110213) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:56:12 -0800 From: Darian Smith To: NFB Talk Mailing List Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [nfb-talk] Top 10 Cities with Best Transportation Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I wonder if they have factored in customer service with regards to the public transportation piece of this. You also have to factor in how tourest friendly the city may be. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 28 ************************************** From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Feb 13 22:33:29 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:33:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? In-Reply-To: <74C68CB2C2F04A83B1ABDE49E1726A41@OwnerPC> References: <74C68CB2C2F04A83B1ABDE49E1726A41@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi Kurt and all, Since I do psychological research related to blindness and rehabilitation, I often have to look up statistics on unemployment and other disadvantages blind Americans face when I write grants or make presentations about my research. I have been quite troubled by the lack of accurate statistics or by the use of statistics that classify people with other disabilities in the same category as the blind. Recently, beginning in 2008, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) began collecting disability-specific employment data. You can find a summary by going to http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=15&SubTopicID=177 The survey defines "vision loss" as an affirmative answer to the question, "Are you blind or have trouble seeing, even with glasses"? It's important to note that according to the BLS there are three levels of employment: employed, unemployed but seeking employment, and "not in the labor force". While only 6% of blind working-age adults (aged 16-64) were classified as "unemployed but seeking employment" in September 2010, a frightening 56% were classified as "not in the labor force". As a result of this extensive non-participation in the labor force, only 38% of all working-age blind adults were classified as employed, with 6% unemployed but seeking work and the remaining 56% "not in the labor force". By comparison, the "labor force nonparticipation" rate for nondisabled adults, including those over the age of 65, is 30%, so it's likely to be much lower in the working-age population. Of course I don't really know what "not in the labor force" means. One problem is that people are classified as blind if they answer "yes" to the blindness question even if they also answer "yes" to other questions about additional disabilities. So at this time there's no real estimate for people who are just blind. I also don't know if someone is counted as "not in the labor force" if they're just not actively seeking a job in the month of the survey. But, clearly, there is a problem if our rate of workforce non-participation is at least double that of the nondisabled population. And, if you look at just those blind adults who are actively seeking work, their unemployment rate is 13.4%--also significantly higher than that for the sighted/nondisabled population. Arielle On 2/13/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi, > Its an old AFB stastic and I heard it includes those with other challenges, > like cognitive impairment. > For other western countries, goole will help. > Something like the Canadian National institute for the blind may help. > AFB may also have stats for other countries. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 4:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? > > This can be on the NABS list. In order to get a better answer, though, > you must put it on the NFB talk list. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/13/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Dear nabs list, >> I'm not really sure where to ask, but I have a few questions about >> our infamous 70 percent unemployment rate. So here goes: >> 1. When was the last time we obtained statistics about the >> unemployment rate of blind people? (in other words, has it changed at >> all, because I've been hearing 70 percent for a long, long time.) >> 2. Does this include cognatively disabled people, or is it 70 percent >> of those of us who are only blind? (I'm not really concerned about >> how people with other physical disabilities impact that statistic) >> 3. What are the unemployment rates for other blind people in western >> European countries? (that one might be addressed to the gentleman on >> the list who suggests we all pack our bags and get the heck out of >> America) >> And finally.... *big drumroll* >> 4. Of the blind people employed in the United States, what percentage >> work in the blindness field? >> Best, >> Kirt >> P.S. That last question wasn't meant in any kind of condescending or >> judgmental way at all, I'm just curious. As I've said earlier, I >> respect qualified blind people who work in the blindness arena. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dandrews at visi.com Sun Feb 13 23:42:43 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:42:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? In-Reply-To: References: <74C68CB2C2F04A83B1ABDE49E1726A41@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Arrielle: The Department of Labor doesn't count you if you aren't "actively looking for a job. So, I think they say the rate of unemployment for disabled persons is around 14 percent -- but if 56 percent of our population isn't even counted in that figure, primarily because they have been unemployed for so long they get discouraged, etc., this is a problem. The 70 percent figure, as originally was "70 percent are unemployed or underemployed." Over the years the under employment part has gotten dropped off -- nevertheless, I don't think anyone knows what our unemployment figure is. As someone working in rehab, and in contact with DOL programs my educated guess is that our unemployment rate is probably 40 percent or worse. Dave At 04:33 PM 2/13/2011, you wrote: >Hi Kurt and all, > >Since I do psychological research related to blindness and >rehabilitation, I often have to look up statistics on unemployment and >other disadvantages blind Americans face when I write grants or make >presentations about my research. I have been quite troubled by the >lack of accurate statistics or by the use of statistics that classify >people with other disabilities in the same category as the blind. >Recently, beginning in 2008, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) >began collecting disability-specific employment data. You can find a >summary by going to >http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=15&SubTopicID=177 > >The survey defines "vision loss" as an affirmative answer to the >question, "Are you blind or have trouble seeing, even with glasses"? >It's important to note that according to the BLS there are three >levels of employment: employed, unemployed but seeking employment, >and "not in the labor force". While only 6% of blind working-age >adults (aged 16-64) were classified as "unemployed but seeking >employment" in September 2010, a frightening 56% were classified as >"not in the labor force". As a result of this extensive >non-participation in the labor force, only 38% of all working-age >blind adults were classified as employed, with 6% unemployed but >seeking work and the remaining 56% "not in the labor force". By >comparison, the "labor force nonparticipation" rate for nondisabled >adults, including those over the age of 65, is 30%, so it's likely to >be much lower in the working-age population. > >Of course I don't really know what "not in the labor force" means. One >problem is that people are classified as blind if they answer "yes" to >the blindness question even if they also answer "yes" to other >questions about additional disabilities. So at this time there's no >real estimate for people who are just blind. I also don't know if >someone is counted as "not in the labor force" if they're just not >actively seeking a job in the month of the survey. But, clearly, there >is a problem if our rate of workforce non-participation is at least >double that of the nondisabled population. And, if you look at just >those blind adults who are actively seeking work, their unemployment >rate is 13.4%--also significantly higher than that for the >sighted/nondisabled population. > >Arielle > >On 2/13/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > Hi, > > Its an old AFB stastic and I heard it includes those with other challenges, > > like cognitive impairment. > > For other western countries, goole will help. > > Something like the Canadian National institute for the blind may help. > > AFB may also have stats for other countries. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joshua Lester > > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 4:50 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? > > > > This can be on the NABS list. In order to get a better answer, though, > > you must put it on the NFB talk list. > > Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 2/13/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Dear nabs list, > >> I'm not really sure where to ask, but I have a few questions about > >> our infamous 70 percent unemployment rate. So here goes: > >> 1. When was the last time we obtained statistics about the > >> unemployment rate of blind people? (in other words, has it changed at > >> all, because I've been hearing 70 percent for a long, long time.) > >> 2. Does this include cognatively disabled people, or is it 70 percent > >> of those of us who are only blind? (I'm not really concerned about > >> how people with other physical disabilities impact that statistic) > >> 3. What are the unemployment rates for other blind people in western > >> European countries? (that one might be addressed to the gentleman on > >> the list who suggests we all pack our bags and get the heck out of > >> America) > >> And finally.... *big drumroll* > >> 4. Of the blind people employed in the United States, what percentage > >> work in the blindness field? > >> Best, > >> Kirt > >> P.S. That last question wasn't meant in any kind of condescending or > >> judgmental way at all, I'm just curious. As I've said earlier, I > >> respect qualified blind people who work in the blindness arena. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > > >-- >Arielle Silverman >President, National Association of Blind Students >Phone: 602-502-2255 >Email: >nabs.president at gmail.com >Website: >www.nabslink.org From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Feb 13 23:59:02 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 18:59:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] k-12 online school Message-ID: <592618C5-768C-4525-B1A9-19A35FEBB91D@mac.com> Hi all: Just wondering, I found a site that is run by K threw 12 education Corp. Its basically an online high school and I'm wondering if anyone has any pros or cons accessibility wise, please contact me offline. Jorge From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Mon Feb 14 03:07:30 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:07:30 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel Message-ID: <7f7U1g00K2PutTY05f7YSf@netzero.net> Like my so knowledgable and graceful teacher of the blind says, We learn more from our failures than our successes. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Date sent: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 01:44:35 -0600 >Subject: [nabs-l] Winter weather travel >Marsha, >First, no one is "super" anything-- that goes for blind people too. >True, some may understand cardinal directions better, and some have an >inate ability to quickly navigate new surroundings, but we are human-- >not cookie-cutter versions of one another. >If anyone caused you-- or anyone else-- to feel inferior because of >struggling in nasty, winter conditions, I would assume said person has >never independently traveled in such conditions. >Sighted and blind, we all lose our direction, and we all can become >disoriented. The true test of good skills is when you refuse to give up >and keep truckin'. >We should work on using any skills and methods available to us. We >should live as independently as we can-- and by this, I mean pursuing >our goals efficiently, living by our own terms and not what others >direct, and setting a positive example as a blind person, and as an >individual in general. We strengthen our own lives as well as those >around us when following this path. >This does not mean, however, that you will not make mistakes or lose >focus at times. Training at an NFB center, or other similar center, >does not ensure a life devoid of mistakes or challenges. What it does >ensure is that you will be armored with the proper tools, methods, >attitudes and support to help you navigate challenges. >You mentioned an hearing impairment-- this, of course, adds another >dimension to your "skills" used for dealing with weather related issues >when traveling. It does not mean it is impossible, but it certainly >presents a challenge, and one, I might add, you seem to have overcome. >I have mild neuropathy so Braille is not always efficient for me. I >have spent the last 8 years being embarrassed by this, but I realized it >is out of my control. Others can think what they want about the lack of >my Braille reading; I know the truth. I know Braille, and I use it as >often as I can. >We all learn at different paces, and we all have strengths as well as >flaws. Anyone implying that difficulty when traversing city streets >during winter,, or other unfriendly weather, is due to a lack of ability >with mobility skills, has their own issues to deal with. >These mindsets-- attitudes-- do not fill people with a desire to attend >a training center, or join the Federation. They simply turn people off, >and give us rational, open-minded people, a bad name. >Bridgit >Message: 28 >Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:15:52 -0500 >From: "Marsha Drenth" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Winter Weather Travel >Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Great question. Last year I asked this same question, as I am new to the >northeast. And the response I got was that it must be something I am >doing wrong with my mobility. Because as a NFB person, who has just the >best mobility and orientation, I should NEVER get lost, nor never be >disorientated, and it does not matter that there was 3 or 4 feet of snow >on the ground. I should always be able to find my way. *being very >sarcastic >here* and that "if" I were getting lost, maybe I should go to a training >center, where I could get better skills. My point was I was laughed at >because I was getting lost in the snow, the ice, and the high winds. I >guess it should not matter, that I have additional disabilities, like a >hearing loss, and balance issues. Its my fault, and not the snow. I am >sorry guys, it was not my fault all my landmarks were covered up. Now >some of you might say, going to a center is important here, but I do not >fall into needing to go to a center category. I am NOT a super blind >person, nor ever will be. >Great question. But I also find it funny how so many people are so quick >to judge others who are blind, for skills or things they can't do so >well. I will be happy to see suggestions and little tips and tricks >others have to say about this. >This was certainly not directed at anyone. Just sayin. LOL >Marsha >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Feb 14 04:22:09 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 23:22:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] braille tests and accomodations Message-ID: Hi All, AS you may know from reading my last question, I have a test for the technical editing class and the test requires us to edit it for errors like spelling and punctuation. When I asked my professor about what we’re tested on she said this: “Exam 1 will also involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.)” So I need to read it; a reader is Not a reasonable accomodation for this because they cannot convey the errors. Next I have grammar tests, probably three of them, for applied grammar. I said probably because it’s the first time the professor is teaching the class and she is not sure how far we will get. These writing classes are part of a writing certificate; I already finished my degree. Anyway, for language study, where you have to really analyze sentences and think through every word, braille would be so much better. Do your colleges provide braille for technical subjects like math, science or foreign languages? Maybe even english if you have to really study it? I feel at a disadvantage without braille. I feel it tests my ability to listen rather than the matterial. The directions for quizzes are complex and probably the same with grammar tests. I’d still need a reader with the braille but I could read it and then dictate my answers; so the “reader” would really be more of a scribe then. Students have to mark certain things to note the grammar in each centence. For instance bracketing prepositional phrases, underlining adverbial phrases, and marking with an arrow the complete subject. Having only a reader may hinder my ability to perform well. I want the test to test my knowledge of the subject, not other abilities like communicating to a reader. I have to listen to the sentence several times. Then repeat the clause I want underlined or bracketed off or whatever the directions say. Its real tetious and I can’t imagine what a test will feel like. Sean said in another message “It seems to me that, given your completely reasonable request to have a Braille version of the articles you are to edit, the onus is on the school to find a way to provide them to you.” I totally agree. I just wrote the dss counselor asking if they could get braille through GMU. I explained that a reader was not an adequate accomodation, given the fact I need to read to observe errors! We’ll see what happens. I also wonder if the ADA requires them to provide our prefered accomodation for tests, so our abilities are tested, not another factor.\ Okay, just venting a little. I just am a conscientious student and do not feel that readers are a decent accomodation in this case, particularly when they are new and have not read often out loud. Ashley From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 07:12:23 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 02:12:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D582538.1090607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4858AAC0-AAA3-4011-8935-EFEF7A958C4A@gmail.com> You do know that you can change all those things, right? I stopped using JAWS a long time ago but certainly not because of that... On Feb 13, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I've never heard of NVDA. I'm interested though. I hate how Jaws reads > too much unwanted junk. Maybe, I should start another thread to > discuss this, but it reads every little detail. It even reads the > periods as "dot dot dot," when there's a list of links. It gets old, > and I hate the robotic voice. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/13/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> Hi joshua, >> >> My wife is not sighted. my wife is blind. I am blind also my son who is >> three years old, he is sighted. but my wife and I are both totally >> blind. she uses Jaws I use NVDA. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From missheather at comcast.net Mon Feb 14 08:44:14 2011 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 02:44:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] rosetta stone References: <4D571651.9030700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <753A89FE11834860A94EA5FE859A33AC@heathersony> Hi all, Pimsler language curriculum is by far the best research-based language learning curriculum. As it correctly assumes that language is primarily learned by listening and speaking the language, it provides structured, research-based audio lessons. Therefore, it is fabulous for nonvisual learners. It has a large number of languages available and has various levels available. For example, if you just want enough knowledge for a holiday in a particular country, you can purchase a product for that purpose. However, if you want to become a fluent speaker, you can purchase a different product which is devided into several, progressively more difficult levels. You can even purchase a product designed to teach you to read and write your language of choice. It is a Simon and Schuster product. I would encourage blind people interested in learning a language to invest in the Pimsler curricula. Regards, Heather ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 5:22 PM Subject: [nabs-l] rosetta stone Hi yes I'm interested in this as well. I have a mac with voiceover. But if I need to I suppose I could use it with the windows side of things. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Feb 14 13:43:33 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 07:43:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world In-Reply-To: <4858AAC0-AAA3-4011-8935-EFEF7A958C4A@gmail.com> References: <4D582538.1090607@gmail.com> <4858AAC0-AAA3-4011-8935-EFEF7A958C4A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ignasi, how can I change those things? I haven't been shown those other commands. They just showed me how to navigate sites, programs, etc, with it. BTW, I'd like for you to E-mail me off list. This is concerning your music. I was wondering if yu had a cd out yet. Please let me know off list. Thanks, Joshua On 2/14/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > You do know that you can change all those things, right? I stopped using > JAWS a long time ago but certainly not because of that... > On Feb 13, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > >> I've never heard of NVDA. I'm interested though. I hate how Jaws reads >> too much unwanted junk. Maybe, I should start another thread to >> discuss this, but it reads every little detail. It even reads the >> periods as "dot dot dot," when there's a list of links. It gets old, >> and I hate the robotic voice. >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/13/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> Hi joshua, >>> >>> My wife is not sighted. my wife is blind. I am blind also my son who is >>> three years old, he is sighted. but my wife and I are both totally >>> blind. she uses Jaws I use NVDA. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 13:53:42 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 08:53:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] foreign languages Message-ID: <4D5933E6.3040302@gmail.com> Hi I do not have an ipod at least not now. So if I downloaded itunes, and if I used it to get podcasts, could I turn those podcasts into standard mp3 files? or once downloaded are they automatically put in the itunes format? I want to play them on my nls digital player but it only plays standard mp3 files. or maybe for me I wonder can anyone recommend an alternative podcast search software and downloader that is accessible? I don't think itunes podcasts will play on my nls player because they are in mp4. Is juice good? or is itunes just better? Josh From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Feb 14 14:48:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:48:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] rosetta stone In-Reply-To: <753A89FE11834860A94EA5FE859A33AC@heathersony> References: <4D571651.9030700@gmail.com> <753A89FE11834860A94EA5FE859A33AC@heathersony> Message-ID: Thanks Heather; I didn't know there was an accessible product out there. I know the well known rosetta stone is visual. -----Original Message----- From: H. Field Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:44 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] rosetta stone Hi all, Pimsler language curriculum is by far the best research-based language learning curriculum. As it correctly assumes that language is primarily learned by listening and speaking the language, it provides structured, research-based audio lessons. Therefore, it is fabulous for nonvisual learners. It has a large number of languages available and has various levels available. For example, if you just want enough knowledge for a holiday in a particular country, you can purchase a product for that purpose. However, if you want to become a fluent speaker, you can purchase a different product which is devided into several, progressively more difficult levels. You can even purchase a product designed to teach you to read and write your language of choice. It is a Simon and Schuster product. I would encourage blind people interested in learning a language to invest in the Pimsler curricula. Regards, Heather ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 5:22 PM Subject: [nabs-l] rosetta stone Hi yes I'm interested in this as well. I have a mac with voiceover. But if I need to I suppose I could use it with the windows side of things. Josh _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From danedunham26 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 15:35:33 2011 From: danedunham26 at gmail.com (Dane Dunham) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:35:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator Message-ID: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> Hi all, Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good program, please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a CCTV, which is not exactly the best for me. Thanks, Dane From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 15:40:46 2011 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:40:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> References: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> Message-ID: Hello Dane, There is one called I think calculator plus and it is an add-on to the windows calculator app. There is also an app called audio graphing calculator which is, as thetitle implies, an audio calculator that also allows you to see what you're graphing. It does have those features you were talking about. I've used it, and it works pretty well. It also is pretty expensive though. But for me, it was worth it. There are I'm sure some free or cheap alternatives, but they will not be audio. As you said you don't need audio though, that shouldn't be a problem for you. Thanks Nimer J On 14/02/2011, Dane Dunham wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing > calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio > based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which > works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate > equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good program, > please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a CCTV, which is > not exactly the best for me. > > Thanks, > > Dane > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 15:43:03 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:43:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] winter weather travel In-Reply-To: <1709015571064CA0829CFFF60D54F5FE@OwnerPC> References: <4D58275B.3000101@gmail.com> <1709015571064CA0829CFFF60D54F5FE@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I wonder at all these people going out in very cold weather without a hat. The largest amount of heat escapes through the top of your head (not your ears). So, you can wear a hat that doesn't cover the ears. I usually wear a beanie (I call it a skull cap) or as another suggested, a baseball cap. But please don't go out without a hat of some sort? Just saying... On 2/13/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Josh, be careful then that you don't get too cold like hyperthermia. > Try ear muffs; some people can hear okay through them. > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Kennedy > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 1:47 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] winter weather travel > > Hi > > I don't wear a hat either. It messes up my sound queues when trying to > cross streets and things. or when crossing I take my hat off, cross, > then put it back on. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > -- ~Jewel Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com From aadkins7 at verizon.net Mon Feb 14 15:43:05 2011 From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:43:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> References: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> Message-ID: <6BE8654B0490449C8E19806C47E13B6C@AnitaAdkinsPC> Have you thought of Excel? In College Algebra, I think we used it for graphing x and y coordinate info. However, I am very novice when it comes to such stuff. So just replying as a suggestion. Anita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dane Dunham" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:35 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator > Hi all, > > Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing > calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio > based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which > works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate > equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good > program, please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a > CCTV, which is not exactly the best for me. > > Thanks, > > Dane > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net From danedunham26 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 15:48:36 2011 From: danedunham26 at gmail.com (Dane Dunham) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:48:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator References: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> Message-ID: <006f01cbcc5e$a55bcc80$5412c90a@usd232.org> Thanks for the ideas, I'll check into these and see what I can find. I tried AGC briefly, but found it confusing. It seems as if it's going to be my best option, so I'll have to try it again and see. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nimer Jaber" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator > Hello Dane, > > There is one called I think calculator plus and it is an add-on to the > windows calculator app. There is also an app called audio graphing > calculator which is, as thetitle implies, an audio calculator that > also allows you to see what you're graphing. It does have those > features you were talking about. I've used it, and it works pretty > well. It also is pretty expensive though. But for me, it was worth it. > There are I'm sure some free or cheap alternatives, but they will not > be audio. As you said you don't need audio though, that shouldn't be a > problem for you. > > Thanks > Nimer J > > On 14/02/2011, Dane Dunham wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing >> calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio >> based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which >> works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate >> equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good >> program, >> please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a CCTV, which >> is >> not exactly the best for me. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dane >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com > From danedunham26 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 15:54:43 2011 From: danedunham26 at gmail.com (Dane Dunham) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:54:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator References: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> <6BE8654B0490449C8E19806C47E13B6C@AnitaAdkinsPC> Message-ID: <007a01cbcc5f$8009b3b0$5412c90a@usd232.org> I have heard of that too, but even my teacher has issues with Excel. Currently, I am in a high school Algebra class, and we are working on quadratic equations. The teacher gives us a two column table with X and Y values, and we are expected to put these values into a graphing calculator which generates the equation to graph. I was just wondering if there is a way to do this on computer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Adkins" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator > Have you thought of Excel? In College Algebra, I think we used it for > graphing x and y coordinate info. However, I am very novice when it comes > to such stuff. So just replying as a suggestion. Anita > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dane Dunham" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:35 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator > > >> Hi all, >> >> Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing >> calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio >> based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which >> works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate >> equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good >> program, please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a >> CCTV, which is not exactly the best for me. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dane >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com > From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 16:12:19 2011 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:12:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <007a01cbcc5f$8009b3b0$5412c90a@usd232.org> References: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> <6BE8654B0490449C8E19806C47E13B6C@AnitaAdkinsPC> <007a01cbcc5f$8009b3b0$5412c90a@usd232.org> Message-ID: I did stuff up to algebra two in excel. If you get any higher, then you probably will need a graphing calculator, but excel worked well for me in Algebra. Thanks Nimer J On 14/02/2011, Dane Dunham wrote: > I have heard of that too, but even my teacher has issues with Excel. > Currently, I am in a high school Algebra class, and we are working on > quadratic equations. The teacher gives us a two column table with X and Y > values, and we are expected to put these values into a graphing calculator > which generates the equation to graph. I was just wondering if there is a > way to do this on computer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anita Adkins" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 9:43 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator > > >> Have you thought of Excel? In College Algebra, I think we used it for >> graphing x and y coordinate info. However, I am very novice when it comes >> to such stuff. So just replying as a suggestion. Anita >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dane Dunham" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:35 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing >>> calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio >>> based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which >>> works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate >>> equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good >>> program, please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a >>> CCTV, which is not exactly the best for me. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dane >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 16:31:38 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:31:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Internet Radio Station Looking For Broadcasters Message-ID: <854EE72DDA1C4BC4A80D3433E321BCA0@AudioShockWave> Hi All! After taking some time off to reevaluate my stance on a few things, I'm back at it again. I'm getting to launch my final attempt at internet radio station ownership! Plans for the station are getting under way, and we are searching for talent. Whether you want to broadcast, are great with audio production, web design, or a combination of these things, we are interested in hearing from you! To hear an audio presentation by one of the co founders about the station, visit http://www.audioaccessradio.com/listen.html or to fill out the dj application directly it's at http://www.audioaccessradio.com and follow audioaccess1 on twitter for spoilers and clues as to what we're working on up through our launch date, which will be soon, but is unclear as to exactly when, but more than likely, within the next month or two. So what are you waiting for? Find out what we've got going on at http://www.audioaccessradio.com Hope to hear from you! Send any post or pre application questions to djd at audioaccessradio.com >From David Dunphy From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon Feb 14 16:37:33 2011 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:37:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] winter weather travel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Maybe it is because I live in Minnesota, but I think people simply get overly dramatic about these things. If it was a fact that one would get sick if they don't wear a hat in cold weather, I would be sick all winter because I often don't wear a hat. While it is true that one looses most of the heat through the top of one's head, the ears, being generally very thin and exposed, are more easily subject to frost bite as is the tip of one's nose. People need to use common sense and also what is comfortable for them. What I don't want to see happen is to have people think that they need to get a ride to the corner grocery store when it is 15 degrees and they can't find a hat. Having stated the above, let me also say that if one is going to take a bus somewhere, it is common sense to have a hat or a hood on one's coat available in case one is stranded at the bus stop longer than expected. It also makes sense to pay attention to wind chill factors as that can have an effect on exposed surfaces such as ears. There are, of course, other health factors that should be considered as well. If one has poor circulation, one needs to take additional steps to protect their extremities. Also, individuals vary in their tollerance for the cold. The point is that winter weather doesn't have to be scarey, but one needs to think about how to approach it. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:43:03 -0500, Jewel S. wrote: >I wonder at all these people going out in very cold weather without a >hat. The largest amount of heat escapes through the top of your head >(not your ears). So, you can wear a hat that doesn't cover the ears. I >usually wear a beanie (I call it a skull cap) or as another suggested, >a baseball cap. But please don't go out without a hat of some sort? >Just saying... >On 2/13/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Josh, be careful then that you don't get too cold like hyperthermia. >> Try ear muffs; some people can hear okay through them. >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Josh Kennedy >> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 1:47 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] winter weather travel >> >> Hi >> >> I don't wear a hat either. It messes up my sound queues when trying to >> cross streets and things. or when crossing I take my hat off, cross, >> then put it back on. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >-- >~Jewel >Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind! >Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Mon Feb 14 18:36:35 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:36:35 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, I would not recommend using a reader, either, for your test. If the point is to find and correct errors in the test, a straight reader will not do. If you are comfortable with Braille, I would suggest you find a way to ensure the test will be in Braille. To review the material and have an efficient method in which to find the errors, Braille is the best option. You can then use a scribe who will make the actual mark or correction, but they only follow your directions. If your school can not, or refuses, to provide material in Braille, I would find some way. Perhaps your local agency for the blind can help, or maybe there is some independent organization that can emboss the test for you. I agree that embossing it on your own may not be the best option just because other students will not have access to the test ahead of time. Communicate all this to your professor and they may be willing to assist in any way. My school does have the ability to provide Braille material, but they outsource for it-- they do not have their own embosser. This is one piece of technology I have yet to purchase since it is expensive. Good luck. Bridgit Message: 28 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 23:22:09 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] braille tests and accomodations Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi All, AS you may know from reading my last question, I have a test for the technical editing class and the test requires us to edit it for errors like spelling and punctuation. When I asked my professor about what we?re tested on she said this: ?Exam 1 will also involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.)? So I need to read it; a reader is Not a reasonable accomodation for this because they cannot convey the errors. Next I have grammar tests, probably three of them, for applied grammar. I said probably because it?s the first time the professor is teaching the class and she is not sure how far we will get. These writing classes are part of a writing certificate; I already finished my degree. Anyway, for language study, where you have to really analyze sentences and think through every word, braille would be so much better. Do your colleges provide braille for technical subjects like math, science or foreign languages? Maybe even english if you have to really study it? I feel at a disadvantage without braille. I feel it tests my ability to listen rather than the matterial. The directions for quizzes are complex and probably the same with grammar tests. I?d still need a reader with the braille but I could read it and then dictate my answers; so the ?reader? would really be more of a scribe then. Students have to mark certain things to note the grammar in each centence. For instance bracketing prepositional phrases, underlining adverbial phrases, and marking with an arrow the complete subject. Having only a reader may hinder my ability to perform well. I want the test to test my knowledge of the subject, not other abilities like communicating to a reader. I have to listen to the sentence several times. Then repeat the clause I want underlined or bracketed off or whatever the directions say. Its real tetious and I can?t imagine what a test will feel like. Sean said in another message ?It seems to me that, given your completely reasonable request to have a Braille version of the articles you are to edit, the onus is on the school to find a way to provide them to you.? I totally agree. I just wrote the dss counselor asking if they could get braille through GMU. I explained that a reader was not an adequate accomodation, given the fact I need to read to observe errors! We?ll see what happens. I also wonder if the ADA requires them to provide our prefered accomodation for tests, so our abilities are tested, not another factor.\ Okay, just venting a little. I just am a conscientious student and do not feel that readers are a decent accomodation in this case, particularly when they are new and have not read often out loud. Ashley From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 19:29:26 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:29:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> References: <002101cbcc5c$d30aa9a0$5412c90a@usd232.org> Message-ID: <4CCD81AD-63E5-4039-BB29-5F59935BD05F@gmail.com> Have you tried Maple? It does a lot more than a graphing calculator, but if you learn how to use it, it's a very powerful tool. On Feb 14, 2011, at 10:35 AM, Dane Dunham wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good program, please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a CCTV, which is not exactly the best for me. > > Thanks, > > Dane > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 19:34:12 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:34:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world In-Reply-To: References: <4D582538.1090607@gmail.com> <4858AAC0-AAA3-4011-8935-EFEF7A958C4A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6264F87C-B9B1-48F4-93F6-65CD2052FD76@gmail.com> Hello, Again I haven't used JAWS consistently in over two years now, so I don't want to confuse you. But all those settings can be changed easily. Just read the JAWS help files. If there's anything good about JAWS it's that it coms with reasonably good documentation. And no, as of right now I don't have any commercial CD's out. We started a pretty big recording project last year but the label and I did not agree on the repertoire. I do have a youtube channel though, with a bunch of random videos. Not all of them are music related though. IC On Feb 14, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > Ignasi, how can I change those things? I haven't been shown those > other commands. They just showed me how to navigate sites, programs, > etc, with it. BTW, I'd like for you to E-mail me off list. This is > concerning your music. I was wondering if yu had a cd out yet. Please > let me know off list. > Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/14/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> You do know that you can change all those things, right? I stopped using >> JAWS a long time ago but certainly not because of that... >> On Feb 13, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: >> >>> I've never heard of NVDA. I'm interested though. I hate how Jaws reads >>> too much unwanted junk. Maybe, I should start another thread to >>> discuss this, but it reads every little detail. It even reads the >>> periods as "dot dot dot," when there's a list of links. It gets old, >>> and I hate the robotic voice. >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/13/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>>> Hi joshua, >>>> >>>> My wife is not sighted. my wife is blind. I am blind also my son who is >>>> three years old, he is sighted. but my wife and I are both totally >>>> blind. she uses Jaws I use NVDA. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 19:54:45 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:54:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA screen reader Message-ID: <4D598885.5010002@gmail.com> Hi go to google type in NVDA blog then get nvda2011.1 beta2. it works great. reads many things better than jaws does. also reads a whole lot more fireign languages than jaws does too. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 20:01:35 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 15:01:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA Message-ID: <4D598A1F.2040709@gmail.com> Hi Oh did I mention that NVDA screen reader is scriptable it also has video hooks which means it'll show you graphics and stuff. It also has a cursor like the jaws cursor and mouse movement commands. You can also change its hotkeys if you don't like them. eloquence has not been developed since 2001 or 2000 or so. ESpeak is fast becoming popular. It reads tons more languages than eloquence does and is constantly being updated with new voices and languages. Some languages could be better but I'm sure it'll get there soon. Josh From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Mon Feb 14 20:13:53 2011 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (Hannah) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 12:13:53 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator Message-ID: <20110214201403.QJIG19767.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Hi Dane and List, I've used the View Plus Audio Graphing Calculator when I took Algebra 2 in my sophomore year in High School, but only for a short time because I found it very confusing. It's a software and I heard that it works well for graphing. I've heard that it's the closest to the TI 83 and other TI products. Hope this helps! Hannah >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dane Dunham" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:35:33 -0600 >Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator >Hi all, >Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a graphing calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to be entirely audio based. I have found a program call GraphCalc from graphcalc.com, which works okay, accept for the fact that the user is unable to generate equations from tables of X and Y values. If anyone knows of a good program, please let me know. Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a CCTV, which is not exactly the best for me. >Thanks, >Dane >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 20:17:07 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 14:17:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate Message-ID: <002801cbcc84$27b8e850$772ab8f0$@com> People who are not actively looking for employment are considered not to be part of the labor force. Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of nonparticipation is vastly higher than the rate that would apply to only those, say, under 65. Blind people with other disabilities are blind people too, so why shouldn't we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities count in the general unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. Sure, you could figure out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and have no other disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could also find the rate for the blind people who have no additional disability, a college degree and IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand selecting who you are looking at and ignore the population as a whole. I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are 25 million blind or visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has 50,000 members. Finally, related to the initial post, why does it matter how many of the blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? That hearkens back to the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser jobs. Yes, it may be easier to get them because you are working with and being hired by people who have experience with blindness, and are therefore less likely to be freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor are those who do them less successful people. Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take them for what they're worth. Take care, Sean From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 20:44:21 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 15:44:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator In-Reply-To: <20110214201403.QJIG19767.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20110214201403.QJIG19767.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: Hi all, My recommendation is MathTrax. It's a free download from the NASA website, and it's really user-friendly. You can put a table into Excel, save it as a CSV file, and import it into MathTrax. Then MathTrax gives you a verbal and an audio description of your graph. Patrick On 2/14/11, Hannah wrote: > Hi Dane and List, > I've used the View Plus Audio Graphing Calculator when I took > Algebra 2 in my sophomore year in High School, but only for a > short time because I found it very confusing. It's a software > and I heard that it works well for graphing. I've heard that > it's the closest to the TI 83 and other TI products. > Hope this helps! > Hannah > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Dane Dunham" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date sent: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:35:33 -0600 >>Subject: [nabs-l] Graphing calculator > >>Hi all, > >>Does anyone know of a good computer program to serve as a > graphing calculator? I have some vision, so it doesn't have to > be entirely audio based. I have found a program call GraphCalc > from graphcalc.com, which works okay, accept for the fact that > the user is unable to generate equations from tables of X and Y > values. If anyone knows of a good program, please let me know. > Currently, I have to use a TI83 under a CCTV, which is not > exactly the best for me. > >>Thanks, > >>Dane > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 20:56:57 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:56:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: <002801cbcc84$27b8e850$772ab8f0$@com> References: <002801cbcc84$27b8e850$772ab8f0$@com> Message-ID: Sean, I'd like to point out a few things. First...other disabilities, particularly severe cognative disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job eligability. I don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it is. I know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who happen to be blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as people, I am fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a person's ability to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment rate is for people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those people, other severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in their unemployed status. As for the question about blind people working in the blindness field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was implying that was inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most blind people I know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally blind person in my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness field...so I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I were to ask what percentage of the American working population works in, say, the lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the inferiority or superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm interested to know how many employed blind people have jobs in the blindness field. Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm a blind person and most blind people I know work primarily with other blind people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show how many blind people work outside of the blindness arena. That's all, I just want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job in the field of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, percentage-wise. In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. All the best, Kirt On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > People who are not actively looking for employment are considered not to be > part of the labor force. > > > > Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of nonparticipation is vastly > higher than the rate that would apply to only those, say, under 65. > > > > Blind people with other disabilities are blind people too, so why shouldn't > we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities count in the general > unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. Sure, you could figure > out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and have no other > disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could also find the rate for > the blind people who have no additional disability, a college degree and > IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand selecting who you are > looking at and ignore the population as a whole. > > > > I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are 25 million blind or > visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has 50,000 members. > > > > Finally, related to the initial post, why does it matter how many of the > blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? That hearkens back to > the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser jobs. Yes, it may be > easier to get them because you are working with and being hired by people > who have experience with blindness, and are therefore less likely to be > freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor are those who do them > less successful people. > > > > Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take them for what they're > worth. > > > > Take care, > > > > Sean > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Feb 14 21:26:23 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:26:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D1D14E5C5AD48ECB585C128D192BA8D@OwnerPC> Brigette, Yes exactly; due to the necessity to find errors, a reader will not work. I have to read it and seel the spellings. I don't know what I'll do because the school does not provide braille; to my knowledge they never outsource. Students just have to use readers or type essays on a computer. I'll ask and see if they will outsource to another university. But I doubt it. They just seem to do enough to get by for students and don't go the extra mile. That is why jaws is very out of date; no sense of urgency to do anything! Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:36 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 29 Ashley, I would not recommend using a reader, either, for your test. If the point is to find and correct errors in the test, a straight reader will not do. If you are comfortable with Braille, I would suggest you find a way to ensure the test will be in Braille. To review the material and have an efficient method in which to find the errors, Braille is the best option. You can then use a scribe who will make the actual mark or correction, but they only follow your directions. If your school can not, or refuses, to provide material in Braille, I would find some way. Perhaps your local agency for the blind can help, or maybe there is some independent organization that can emboss the test for you. I agree that embossing it on your own may not be the best option just because other students will not have access to the test ahead of time. Communicate all this to your professor and they may be willing to assist in any way. My school does have the ability to provide Braille material, but they outsource for it-- they do not have their own embosser. This is one piece of technology I have yet to purchase since it is expensive. Good luck. Bridgit Message: 28 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 23:22:09 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] braille tests and accomodations Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi All, AS you may know from reading my last question, I have a test for the technical editing class and the test requires us to edit it for errors like spelling and punctuation. When I asked my professor about what we?re tested on she said this: ?Exam 1 will also involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.)? So I need to read it; a reader is Not a reasonable accomodation for this because they cannot convey the errors. Next I have grammar tests, probably three of them, for applied grammar. I said probably because it?s the first time the professor is teaching the class and she is not sure how far we will get. These writing classes are part of a writing certificate; I already finished my degree. Anyway, for language study, where you have to really analyze sentences and think through every word, braille would be so much better. Do your colleges provide braille for technical subjects like math, science or foreign languages? Maybe even english if you have to really study it? I feel at a disadvantage without braille. I feel it tests my ability to listen rather than the matterial. The directions for quizzes are complex and probably the same with grammar tests. I?d still need a reader with the braille but I could read it and then dictate my answers; so the ?reader? would really be more of a scribe then. Students have to mark certain things to note the grammar in each centence. For instance bracketing prepositional phrases, underlining adverbial phrases, and marking with an arrow the complete subject. Having only a reader may hinder my ability to perform well. I want the test to test my knowledge of the subject, not other abilities like communicating to a reader. I have to listen to the sentence several times. Then repeat the clause I want underlined or bracketed off or whatever the directions say. Its real tetious and I can?t imagine what a test will feel like. Sean said in another message ?It seems to me that, given your completely reasonable request to have a Braille version of the articles you are to edit, the onus is on the school to find a way to provide them to you.? I totally agree. I just wrote the dss counselor asking if they could get braille through GMU. I explained that a reader was not an adequate accomodation, given the fact I need to read to observe errors! We?ll see what happens. I also wonder if the ADA requires them to provide our prefered accomodation for tests, so our abilities are tested, not another factor.\ Okay, just venting a little. I just am a conscientious student and do not feel that readers are a decent accomodation in this case, particularly when they are new and have not read often out loud. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Feb 14 21:27:05 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:27:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh I'm also definitely comfortable with braille; read it most of my life. The problem is they don't have an embosser! -----Original Message----- From: Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:36 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 52, Issue 29 Ashley, I would not recommend using a reader, either, for your test. If the point is to find and correct errors in the test, a straight reader will not do. If you are comfortable with Braille, I would suggest you find a way to ensure the test will be in Braille. To review the material and have an efficient method in which to find the errors, Braille is the best option. You can then use a scribe who will make the actual mark or correction, but they only follow your directions. If your school can not, or refuses, to provide material in Braille, I would find some way. Perhaps your local agency for the blind can help, or maybe there is some independent organization that can emboss the test for you. I agree that embossing it on your own may not be the best option just because other students will not have access to the test ahead of time. Communicate all this to your professor and they may be willing to assist in any way. My school does have the ability to provide Braille material, but they outsource for it-- they do not have their own embosser. This is one piece of technology I have yet to purchase since it is expensive. Good luck. Bridgit Message: 28 Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 23:22:09 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] braille tests and accomodations Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi All, AS you may know from reading my last question, I have a test for the technical editing class and the test requires us to edit it for errors like spelling and punctuation. When I asked my professor about what we?re tested on she said this: ?Exam 1 will also involve applying proof reading symbols to edit a document provided at the Testing Center. (A copy of the usual synbols will be provided.)? So I need to read it; a reader is Not a reasonable accomodation for this because they cannot convey the errors. Next I have grammar tests, probably three of them, for applied grammar. I said probably because it?s the first time the professor is teaching the class and she is not sure how far we will get. These writing classes are part of a writing certificate; I already finished my degree. Anyway, for language study, where you have to really analyze sentences and think through every word, braille would be so much better. Do your colleges provide braille for technical subjects like math, science or foreign languages? Maybe even english if you have to really study it? I feel at a disadvantage without braille. I feel it tests my ability to listen rather than the matterial. The directions for quizzes are complex and probably the same with grammar tests. I?d still need a reader with the braille but I could read it and then dictate my answers; so the ?reader? would really be more of a scribe then. Students have to mark certain things to note the grammar in each centence. For instance bracketing prepositional phrases, underlining adverbial phrases, and marking with an arrow the complete subject. Having only a reader may hinder my ability to perform well. I want the test to test my knowledge of the subject, not other abilities like communicating to a reader. I have to listen to the sentence several times. Then repeat the clause I want underlined or bracketed off or whatever the directions say. Its real tetious and I can?t imagine what a test will feel like. Sean said in another message ?It seems to me that, given your completely reasonable request to have a Braille version of the articles you are to edit, the onus is on the school to find a way to provide them to you.? I totally agree. I just wrote the dss counselor asking if they could get braille through GMU. I explained that a reader was not an adequate accomodation, given the fact I need to read to observe errors! We?ll see what happens. I also wonder if the ADA requires them to provide our prefered accomodation for tests, so our abilities are tested, not another factor.\ Okay, just venting a little. I just am a conscientious student and do not feel that readers are a decent accomodation in this case, particularly when they are new and have not read often out loud. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Feb 14 21:38:07 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 16:38:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: References: <002801cbcc84$27b8e850$772ab8f0$@com> Message-ID: Kirt, You know many people in the blindness field? That is something. In my area they are mostly office jobs or speciality jobs like lawyers and computer programmers; most blind people I know work in the government or government contractors. -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate Sean, I'd like to point out a few things. First...other disabilities, particularly severe cognative disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job eligability. I don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it is. I know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who happen to be blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as people, I am fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a person's ability to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment rate is for people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those people, other severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in their unemployed status. As for the question about blind people working in the blindness field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was implying that was inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most blind people I know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally blind person in my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness field...so I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I were to ask what percentage of the American working population works in, say, the lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the inferiority or superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm interested to know how many employed blind people have jobs in the blindness field. Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm a blind person and most blind people I know work primarily with other blind people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show how many blind people work outside of the blindness arena. That's all, I just want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job in the field of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, percentage-wise. In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. All the best, Kirt On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > People who are not actively looking for employment are considered not to > be > part of the labor force. > > > > Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of nonparticipation is vastly > higher than the rate that would apply to only those, say, under 65. > > > > Blind people with other disabilities are blind people too, so why > shouldn't > we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities count in the general > unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. Sure, you could > figure > out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and have no other > disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could also find the rate > for > the blind people who have no additional disability, a college degree and > IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand selecting who you > are > looking at and ignore the population as a whole. > > > > I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are 25 million blind or > visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has 50,000 members. > > > > Finally, related to the initial post, why does it matter how many of the > blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? That hearkens back to > the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser jobs. Yes, it may be > easier to get them because you are working with and being hired by people > who have experience with blindness, and are therefore less likely to be > freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor are those who do > them > less successful people. > > > > Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take them for what they're > worth. > > > > Take care, > > > > Sean > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 22:08:25 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:08:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA screen reader Message-ID: <4D59A7D9.2000404@gmail.com> Hi here is information from the about nvda dialog. About NVDA NonVisual Desktop Access (NVDA) Version: 2011.1beta2 URL: http://www.nvda-project.org/ Copyright (C) 2006-2011 NVDA Contributors NVDA is covered by the GNU General Public License (Version 2). You are free to share or change this software in any way you like as long as it is accompanied by the license and you make all source code available to anyone who wants it. This applies to both original and modified copies of this software, plus any derivative works. For further details, you can view the license from the Help menu. It can also be viewed online at: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html NVDA is developed by NV Access, a non-profit organisation committed to helping and promoting free and open source solutions for blind and vision impaired people. If you find NVDA useful and want it to continue to improve, please consider donating to NV Access. You can do this by selecting Donate from the NVDA menu. OK From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 22:12:27 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:12:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA screen reader Message-ID: <4D59A8CB.4030407@gmail.com> Hi NVDA can read 54 foreign languages. And the list of languages ESpeak supports is growing often. If you want a spanish jaws you have to buy a special jaws with the spanish language interface. Compare that to NVDA. just change NVDA's interface language, switch espeak to spanish tweek ESpeak to what sounds good for you and you're up and running. Josh From jkenn337 at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 22:15:32 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:15:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ESpeak with pirate or irish accent Message-ID: <4D59A984.4080806@gmail.com> Hi ESpeak with NVDA has several english accents. I think it would be cool if someone would program espeak to have a pirate accent or an irish accent. It has english scottish. oh its also lacking australian accent as well. ESpeak is free so you can tweek it all you want if you know how. Josh From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 22:16:31 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:16:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Elements of Clunk Message-ID: <561FAB66354C4DBBA1373666E944974F@Rufus> The Elements of Clunk The Elements of Clunk 1 Enlarge Image close The Elements of Clunk 1 By Ben Yagoda Four years ago, I wrote an essay for The Chronicle Review cataloging "The Seven Deadly Sins of Student Writers"-the errors and infelicities that cropped up most frequently in my students' work. Since then a whole new strain of bad writing has come to the fore, not only in student work but also on the Internet, that unparalleled source for assessing the state of the language. Consider: For our one year anniversary, my girlfriend and myself are going to a Yankees game, with whomever amongst our friends can go. But, the Weather Channel just changed their forecast and the skies are grey, so we might go with the girl that lives next door to see the movie, "Iron Man 2". Those two hypothetical sentences contain 11 instances of this new type of "mistake" (I put the word in quotes to include usages that would almost universally be deemed errors, ones that merely diverge from standard practice, and outposts in between). They are as follows: 1. There should be no comma after "But." 2. The period after "Iron Man 2" should be inside the quotation marks around the title (which would be italicized in most publications, including The Chronicle). 3. No comma is needed after "movie." 4. "Its," not "their," is needed with "Weather Channel." 5. "Whomever" should be "whoever." 6. "Myself" should be "I." 7. "Girl that" should be "girl who" 8. "Gray" is the correct spelling, not "grey." 9. "Amongst" should be "among." 10. "One year anniversary" should be written as "one-year anniversary," but, really, "first anniversary." 11. It's a "Yankee," not "Yankees," game. Are you surprised by the absence of smiley faces, LOL-type abbreviations, and slang terms like "diss" or "phat"? A reading of the typical lament about student writing would lead you to think all are rampant. However, I have yet to encounter a single example in all my years of grading. Students realize that this kind of thing is in the wrong register for a college assignment (even an assignment for my classes, which for the most part cover journalism, broadly defined-that is, writing for publication in newspapers and magazines, in print or online). Maybe students are being too careful. Slang can streamline or lend poetry to language, or both. The new errors and changes, on the other hand, make it longer and more prosaic. They give a new sound to prose. I call it clunk. The leadoff hitters are Nos. 1 to 3; punctuation is a train wreck among my students. I have no doubt as to the root of the problem: Students haven't spent much time reading. Punctuation, including the use of apostrophes and hyphens, is governed by a fairly complicated series of rules and conventions, learned for the most part not in the classroom but by encountering and subliminally absorbing them again and again. Students have a lot of conversations and texting sessions, but that's no help. You need to read a lot of edited and published prose. Unfamiliarity with written English has brought about the other mistakes and changes as well. They may not appear at first to have much in common, but note: All except Nos. 2 and 8 lengthen the sentence they're in. This is the opposite of the way language usually changes. "God be with you" becomes "goodbye"; "base ball" becomes "base-ball" and then "baseball"; "disrespect" becomes "diss." Two hundred years ago, Jane Austen wrote, "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife." A copy editor today would cut both commas. Standard written English is a whole other language from its spoken (and texted) counterpart, with conventions not just of punctuation but also of many shortcuts to meaning-streamlined words and phrases, ellipses (omitted word or words), idioms, figures of speech-that have developed over many years. You learn them by reading. And if you haven't read much, when you set pen to paper yourself, you take things more slowly and apply a literal-minded logic, as you would in finding your way through a dark house. Thus, in No. 1, it seems natural to place a comma after "But" because in speaking you would pause there. (So natural that commas after "But," "And," or "Yet" at the start of a sentence now show up frequently in Associated Press dispatches and The New York Times, as well as in blogs and other writing on the Web.) And in No. 2, it makes sense to put a period after the title Iron Man 2-after all, a film title is a unit. But in both cases the rules, animated by a general urge to make writing smooth and efficient, allow us and in fact compel us to punctuate in an illogical and counterintuitive way. The question in No. 3, of whether to put a comma after the word "movie," relates to the famously difficult issue of defining or nondefining clauses and phrases-the whole "that/which" thing. It's a slam dunk that students would be clueless here. What I want to point out is that they're much more likely to err by putting a comma in than by taking one out. In other words, every day I see mistakes like "the movie, Iron Man 2" or "my friend, Steve." But rarely do I encounter something along the lines of "We live in the richest country in the world the United States." As for No. 4, every student of mine who is not the child of a high-school English teacher uses the third-person plural pronoun ("they," "them," "their") to refer to companies, organizations, and rock bands with nonplural names, such as the Clash and Arcade Fire. That is eminently reasonable, given that these outfits consist of multiple individuals, and in fact the plural pronoun is standard in Britain. However, we live in the United States, where it is not. (Even English teachers' children use "they" for the epicene pronoun-that is, to stand for a person of indeterminate sex. Thus, "Everyone who wants to come on the trip should bring their passport." In that sentence, "their" is so much better a choice than "his or her," "her or his," or "her/his" that it will almost certainly become standard in written English in the next 10 years.) Nos. 5 and 6 are examples of "hypercorrection": errors that are induced by a combination of grammatical confusion and a desire to sound fancy, such as the chorine who refers to "a girl like I." Her equivalent today would say "a girl like myself." The enormous popularity of that last word stems in part from understandable uncertainty over whether "I" or "me" is correct. The same goes for "who" and "whom," about which almost nobody is completely confident. But there is more going on here; stay with me. In No. 5, while "whoever" is correct (you would say "we'll go with he who can make it," not "with him who can make it"), the error is reasonable because most of the time prepositions like "with" take an object, like "whom." But people often use "whomever" even when the error is not reasonable. A Google search quickly yields a Facebook group called "Quazie's Hair Fan-club" (put up by college students, significantly), which has a discussion called "Whomever wants an office in this group." Here's what's happening, as I see it. My students aren't unique but represent a portion of the millennial generation: at least moderately intelligent, reasonably well-educated young people. When they write in a formal setting-for a class assignment or for publication in a blog or a magazine-they almost always favor length over brevity, ornateness over simplicity, literalness over figuration. The reasons, I hypothesize, are a combination: the wandering-the-house-in-the-dark factor, hypercorrection brought on by chronic uncertainty, and the truth that once people start talking or writing, they like to do so as long as they can, even if the extra airtime comes from saying "myself" instead of "I." Examples of the trend may seem trivial in isolation. Take "a person that" instead of "a person who." It's not a crime against the language. But the language, in its wisdom, has offered us "who" as a relative pronoun when referring to a person rather than a thing. It's there to make your prose marginally more fluid, to save a letter, and to be used. Why not use it? Another manifestation is a boom in Britishisms: not only the weirdly popular "amongst," but also "amidst," "whilst"-I actually have gotten that more than once in assignments-and "oftentimes." (In a parallel move, the stretched-out and unpleasant "off-ten" has become a vogue pronunciation among youth, as has "eye-ther.") In spelling, "grey" has taken over from the previously standard "gray." I haven't seen "labour" yet, but the day is young. "Advisor" isn't British-in fact, dictionaries label it an Americanism-but it seems so, or at least fancier and more official than good old "adviser." The "-or" spelling has become so prevalent-85 million in Google, against 26 million for "adviser"-that although the Times, The New Yorker, and the Associated Press, along with The Chronicle, cling to "-er," it has started to look funny in their articles. Rampant hyphen confusion is part of the general punctuation problem, but the particular usage in No. 10 is also an example of a concise locution replaced by an awkward literalism. People: We've always had a way to indicate the day when something is a year old, and it's "first anniversary." A Google search yields 1.2 million hits for "one-year anniversary" (or "one year anniversary") to 2.4 million for "first anniversary"-and I predict the margin will quickly vanish. (It just occurred to me to Google "one-year," as opposed to "first," birthday. I have to admit I am shocked: nearly two million hits.) A lot of venerable expressions have had their seams let out recently. One change (picked up and then propelled by Facebook) is from the traditional "he's my friend" or "he's a friend of mine" to the longer, clunkier, and more literal "I'm friends with him." In similar fashion, "too big a" has turned into "too big of a"; "can't help thinking" into "can't help but think"; "this kind of thing" into "these kinds of things"; "I would like to have gone" and "I would have liked to go" combined into "I would have liked to have gone." And then we come to the Yankees and their contests. I know there will be skeptics on this one, so let me start with some numbers. In The New York Times, from 1851 to 1980, the phrase "a Yankee game" occurred 39 times. And "a Yankees game"? Zero. Contrast the period between January 2005 and June 2010. The Times used "a Yankee game" 19 times and "a Yankees game" 65 times: more than three times as often. To understand the change, let's first look at the previously dominant "Yankee game." I would characterize "Yankee game," "Yankee pitcher," or "Yankee fan" as metonymy: a figure of speech in which the part (a Yankee) stands for the whole (the Yankees collectively). The convention still holds for some expressions: We say "I'm a cookie lover" or "Let's go to the shoe store," even though I like cookies (plural) and the store stocks many pairs of footwear. The dropping of the "s" is one of those shortcuts that streamline the language. Not for sports teams, however-not anymore. Trying to get a more precise fix on when the change occurred, I compared a "Yankees game" with a "Yankee game" in the Times database for various chunks of time. It turns out that "Yankees" surged ahead between 1996 and 2000, beating out the previously preferred "Yankee" 35 to 22 and setting the stage for dominance in the 2000s. What was going on in the late 1990s? I confess I do not have a clue, only a conviction that this was an early sign of the coming of clunk. Ben Yagoda is a professor of English at the University of Delaware and author, most recently, of Memoir: A History (Riverhead Books, 2009). From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 22:36:07 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:36:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: References: <002801cbcc84$27b8e850$772ab8f0$@com> Message-ID: I've also yet to meet an employed blind adult in my state who isn't either working for our state's division of blind services or otherwise in the blindness field. I'm rather curious, myself, how prevalent a trend this is. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:38 PM, wrote: > Kirt, > You know many people in the blindness field? > That is something. In my area they are mostly office jobs or speciality > jobs like lawyers and computer programmers; most blind people I know work in > the government or government contractors. > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate > > > Sean, > I'd like to point out a few things. > First...other disabilities, particularly severe cognative > disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job eligability. I > don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it is. I > know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who happen to be > blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as people, I am > fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a person's ability > to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment rate is for > people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those people, other > severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in their > unemployed status. > As for the question about blind people working in the blindness > field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was implying that was > inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most blind people I > know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally blind person in > my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness field...so > I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I were to ask what > percentage of the American working population works in, say, the > lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the inferiority or > superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm interested to > know how many employed blind people have jobs in the blindness field. > Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm a blind person > and most blind people I know work primarily with other blind > people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show how many > blind people work outside of the blindness arena. That's all, I just > want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job in the field > of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, percentage-wise. > In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > >> People who are not actively looking for employment are considered not to >> be >> part of the labor force. >> >> >> >> Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of nonparticipation is vastly >> higher than the rate that would apply to only those, say, under 65. >> >> >> >> Blind people with other disabilities are blind people too, so why >> shouldn't >> we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities count in the general >> unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. Sure, you could >> figure >> out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and have no other >> disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could also find the rate >> for >> the blind people who have no additional disability, a college degree and >> IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand selecting who you >> are >> looking at and ignore the population as a whole. >> >> >> >> I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are 25 million blind or >> visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has 50,000 members. >> >> >> >> Finally, related to the initial post, why does it matter how many of the >> blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? That hearkens back to >> the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser jobs. Yes, it may be >> easier to get them because you are working with and being hired by people >> who have experience with blindness, and are therefore less likely to be >> freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor are those who do >> them >> less successful people. >> >> >> >> Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take them for what they're >> worth. >> >> >> >> Take care, >> >> >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com Mon Feb 14 22:58:16 2011 From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:58:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA screen reader In-Reply-To: <4D59A7D9.2000404@gmail.com> References: <4D59A7D9.2000404@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is one of the languages Korean Josh?Albert On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > here is information from the about nvda dialog. > > About NVDA > NonVisual Desktop Access (NVDA) > Version: 2011.1beta2 > URL: http://www.nvda-project.org/ > Copyright (C) 2006-2011 NVDA Contributors > > NVDA is covered by the GNU General Public License (Version 2). > You are free to share or change this software in any way you like > as long as it is accompanied by the license and you make all source > code available to anyone who wants it. This applies to both original > and modified copies of this software, plus any derivative works. > For further details, you can view the license from the Help menu. > It can also be viewed online at: > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html > NVDA is developed by NV Access, a non-profit organisation > committed to helping and promoting free and open source > solutions for blind and vision impaired people. > If you find NVDA useful and want it to continue to improve, please > consider donating to NV Access. You can do this by selecting > Donate from the NVDA menu. > > OK > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albert.k.yoo%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Feb 14 23:39:41 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:39:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: References: <002801cbcc84$27b8e850$772ab8f0$@com> Message-ID: <753703B8CE224DDA870949CDEAC7D0A7@OwnerPC> Jamie, What state are you in? I see the opposite. The majority of blind employees work for the government, government contractors, or large corporations is what I see. Several nfb members in the two nearest chapters are lawyers and computer programmers. -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Principato Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 5:36 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate I've also yet to meet an employed blind adult in my state who isn't either working for our state's division of blind services or otherwise in the blindness field. I'm rather curious, myself, how prevalent a trend this is. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:38 PM, wrote: > Kirt, > You know many people in the blindness field? > That is something. In my area they are mostly office jobs or speciality > jobs like lawyers and computer programmers; most blind people I know work > in > the government or government contractors. > > -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate > > > Sean, > I'd like to point out a few things. > First...other disabilities, particularly severe cognative > disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job eligability. I > don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it is. I > know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who happen to be > blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as people, I am > fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a person's ability > to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment rate is for > people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those people, other > severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in their > unemployed status. > As for the question about blind people working in the blindness > field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was implying that was > inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most blind people I > know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally blind person in > my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness field...so > I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I were to ask what > percentage of the American working population works in, say, the > lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the inferiority or > superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm interested to > know how many employed blind people have jobs in the blindness field. > Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm a blind person > and most blind people I know work primarily with other blind > people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show how many > blind people work outside of the blindness arena. That's all, I just > want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job in the field > of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, percentage-wise. > In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. > All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > >> People who are not actively looking for employment are considered not to >> be >> part of the labor force. >> >> >> >> Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of nonparticipation is vastly >> higher than the rate that would apply to only those, say, under 65. >> >> >> >> Blind people with other disabilities are blind people too, so why >> shouldn't >> we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities count in the >> general >> unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. Sure, you could >> figure >> out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and have no other >> disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could also find the rate >> for >> the blind people who have no additional disability, a college degree and >> IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand selecting who you >> are >> looking at and ignore the population as a whole. >> >> >> >> I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are 25 million blind >> or >> visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has 50,000 members. >> >> >> >> Finally, related to the initial post, why does it matter how many of the >> blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? That hearkens back to >> the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser jobs. Yes, it may be >> easier to get them because you are working with and being hired by people >> who have experience with blindness, and are therefore less likely to be >> freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor are those who do >> them >> less successful people. >> >> >> >> Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take them for what they're >> worth. >> >> >> >> Take care, >> >> >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 02:01:48 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:01:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: <753703B8CE224DDA870949CDEAC7D0A7@OwnerPC> References: <002801cbcc84$27b8e850$772ab8f0$@com> <753703B8CE224DDA870949CDEAC7D0A7@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I live in Florida. I've known some blind people in other states who had these jobs you've mentioned, but not nearly as many. I'm eager to understand the prevalence of and possible reasons for all employment trends among the blind of different regions. On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 6:39 PM, wrote: > Jamie, > What state are you in? I see the opposite. The majority of blind employees > work for the government, government contractors, or large corporations is > what I see. Several nfb members in the two nearest chapters are lawyers and > computer programmers. > > > -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Principato > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 5:36 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate > > I've also yet to meet an employed blind adult in my state who isn't either > working for our state's division of blind services or otherwise in the > blindness field. I'm rather curious, myself, how prevalent a trend this is. > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:38 PM, wrote: > > Kirt, >> You know many people in the blindness field? >> That is something. In my area they are mostly office jobs or speciality >> jobs like lawyers and computer programmers; most blind people I know work >> in >> the government or government contractors. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate >> >> >> Sean, >> I'd like to point out a few things. >> First...other disabilities, particularly severe cognative >> disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job eligability. I >> don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it is. I >> know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who happen to be >> blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as people, I am >> fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a person's ability >> to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment rate is for >> people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those people, other >> severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in their >> unemployed status. >> As for the question about blind people working in the blindness >> field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was implying that was >> inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most blind people I >> know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally blind person in >> my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness field...so >> I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I were to ask what >> percentage of the American working population works in, say, the >> lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the inferiority or >> superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm interested to >> know how many employed blind people have jobs in the blindness field. >> Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm a blind person >> and most blind people I know work primarily with other blind >> people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show how many >> blind people work outside of the blindness arena. That's all, I just >> want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job in the field >> of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, percentage-wise. >> In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. >> All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen wrote: >> >> People who are not actively looking for employment are considered not to >>> be >>> part of the labor force. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of nonparticipation is vastly >>> higher than the rate that would apply to only those, say, under 65. >>> >>> >>> >>> Blind people with other disabilities are blind people too, so why >>> shouldn't >>> we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities count in the >>> general >>> unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. Sure, you could >>> figure >>> out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and have no other >>> disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could also find the rate >>> for >>> the blind people who have no additional disability, a college degree and >>> IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand selecting who you >>> are >>> looking at and ignore the population as a whole. >>> >>> >>> >>> I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are 25 million blind >>> or >>> visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has 50,000 members. >>> >>> >>> >>> Finally, related to the initial post, why does it matter how many of the >>> blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? That hearkens back to >>> the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser jobs. Yes, it may be >>> easier to get them because you are working with and being hired by people >>> who have experience with blindness, and are therefore less likely to be >>> freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor are those who do >>> them >>> less successful people. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take them for what they're >>> worth. >>> >>> >>> >>> Take care, >>> >>> >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Tue Feb 15 02:13:27 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:13:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <585656.92601.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Kirt, You raise some really good points and I happen to totally agree with you. I think now with unemployment in general being high, unemployment amongest the blind is higher then 70 percent. The 70 percent was the unemployment in the 1990s and early 2000s when the national employment was at about 4 to 5 percent. Of the 20 percent of blind people who are employment half or more are working in a non-main stream environment meaning blindness pesific or disability pesific agency or serving people who are eather blind or disabled. Others go through a special training to directly related to their blindness in order to work in a main-stream organization. For example, those who are working for the IRS are working for a main-stream organization, but most have gone through a special training at Lions World Services for the Blind in order to do their job. The problem I see is that how many blind people can go to work for the Division Services for the Blind or the Indistry for the Blind? You are also correct in that we must consider that some have more then just blind as a disability which effects their ability to hold a job. We have been discussing such issues in one of my class. However, I see to many perfectly fine people who's disability is only blindness waste away good potential. I could on all night discussing this, but these are just my thoughts for now. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 2:56 PM > Sean, >   I'd like to point out a few things. >   First...other disabilities, particularly severe > cognative > disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job > eligability.  I > don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it > is.  I > know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who > happen to be > blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as > people, I am > fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a > person's ability > to work.  That's why I'm curious what the unemployment > rate is for > people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those > people, other > severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in > their > unemployed status. >   As for the question about blind people working in > the blindness > field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was > implying that was > inferior.  I'm just curious because that's where most > blind people I > know work.  Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally > blind person in > my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness > field...so > I think it's a legitimate question.  It's like if I > were to ask what > percentage of the American working population works in, > say, the > lobbying business.  That, to me, does not imply the > inferiority or > superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm > interested to > know how many employed blind people have jobs in the > blindness field. > Do you see my point?  I just want to know because I'm > a blind person > and most blind people I know work primarily with other > blind > people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show > how many > blind people work outside of the blindness arena.  > That's all, I just > want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job > in the field > of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, > percentage-wise. > In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. >   All the best, > Kirt > > On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen > wrote: > > People who are not actively looking for employment are > considered not to be > > part of the labor force. > > > > > > > > Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of > nonparticipation is vastly > > higher than the rate that would apply to only those, > say, under 65. > > > > > > > > Blind people with other disabilities are blind people > too, so why shouldn't > > we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities > count in the general > > unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. > Sure, you could figure > > out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and > have no other > > disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could > also find the rate for > > the blind people who have no additional disability, a > college degree and > > IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand > selecting who you are > > looking at and ignore the population as a whole. > > > > > > > > I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are > 25 million blind or > > visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has > 50,000 members. > > > > > > > > Finally, related to the initial post, why does it > matter how many of the > > blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? > That hearkens back to > > the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser > jobs. Yes, it may be > > easier to get them because you are working with and > being hired by people > > who have experience with blindness, and are therefore > less likely to be > > freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor > are those who do them > > less successful people. > > > > > > > > Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take > them for what they're > > worth. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 15 03:57:53 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:57:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] educating faculty and staff Message-ID: Hi all, I’m meeting with the ADA coordinator and probably a few other officials to advocate for adequate technology and accomodations. I’d like to also share tips on interacting with blind people and show blind people working and playing regularly. I know we’re all different, but I figured there may be some curtesy rules out there. Maybe youtube videos? For one thing I’d like something explaining sighted guide; if you are going to lead someone, lead them properly and offer an arm. Do not grab the blind person’s cane or arm. Tips might be: announce who you are when you arrive, announce when you are walking away, speak in a normal volume because we hear fine and its okay to use visual words such as “see” and “watch”. Thanks for ideas. Ashley From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 04:22:54 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:22:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: <585656.92601.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <585656.92601.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I think it's important to remember that those of us who are NFB members have much of our contact with other NFB members and many NFB members choose to work in blindness rehabilitation or education because they are drawn to helping resolve the social obstacles that blind people face. It's entirely possible that the majority of the blind people who don't join a blindness organization choose not to work in the blindness field. In fact, some blind people go so far as to avoid all contact with the blind community. One of my only blind role models growing up was an attorney who repeatedly told me that the best thing I could do for myself was to rise above my blindness and connect with other blind people as little as possible. It apparently worked for him as he is an intelligent, successful, happily married man, but I know that's certainly not the way for all of us. Those of us who choose to join organizations do so in large part because we want to affiliate with and reach out to other blind people, so naturally those of us who join consumer organizations will be more likely to find employment in the blindness field. Arielle On 2/14/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Kirt, > You raise some really good points and I happen to totally agree with you. I > think now with unemployment in general being high, unemployment amongest the > blind is higher then 70 percent. The 70 percent was the unemployment in the > 1990s and early 2000s when the national employment was at about 4 to 5 > percent. Of the 20 percent of blind people who are employment half or more > are working in a non-main stream environment meaning blindness pesific or > disability pesific agency or serving people who are eather blind or > disabled. Others go through a special training to directly related to their > blindness in order to work in a main-stream organization. For example, those > who are working for the IRS are working for a main-stream organization, but > most have gone through a special training at Lions World Services for the > Blind in order to do their job. The problem I see is that how many blind > people can go to work for the Division Services for the Blind or the > Indistry for the Blind? > You are also correct in that we must consider that some have more then just > blind as a disability which effects their ability to hold a job. We have > been discussing such issues in one of my class. However, I see to many > perfectly fine people who's disability is only blindness waste away good > potential. > I could on all night discussing this, but these are just my thoughts for > now. > > Anmol > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 2:56 PM >> Sean, >>   I'd like to point out a few things. >>   First...other disabilities, particularly severe >> cognative >> disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job >> eligability.  I >> don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it >> is.  I >> know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who >> happen to be >> blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as >> people, I am >> fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a >> person's ability >> to work.  That's why I'm curious what the unemployment >> rate is for >> people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those >> people, other >> severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in >> their >> unemployed status. >>   As for the question about blind people working in >> the blindness >> field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was >> implying that was >> inferior.  I'm just curious because that's where most >> blind people I >> know work.  Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally >> blind person in >> my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness >> field...so >> I think it's a legitimate question.  It's like if I >> were to ask what >> percentage of the American working population works in, >> say, the >> lobbying business.  That, to me, does not imply the >> inferiority or >> superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm >> interested to >> know how many employed blind people have jobs in the >> blindness field. >> Do you see my point?  I just want to know because I'm >> a blind person >> and most blind people I know work primarily with other >> blind >> people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show >> how many >> blind people work outside of the blindness arena. >> That's all, I just >> want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job >> in the field >> of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, >> percentage-wise. >> In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. >>   All the best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen >> wrote: >> > People who are not actively looking for employment are >> considered not to be >> > part of the labor force. >> > >> > >> > >> > Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of >> nonparticipation is vastly >> > higher than the rate that would apply to only those, >> say, under 65. >> > >> > >> > >> > Blind people with other disabilities are blind people >> too, so why shouldn't >> > we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities >> count in the general >> > unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. >> Sure, you could figure >> > out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and >> have no other >> > disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could >> also find the rate for >> > the blind people who have no additional disability, a >> college degree and >> > IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand >> selecting who you are >> > looking at and ignore the population as a whole. >> > >> > >> > >> > I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are >> 25 million blind or >> > visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has >> 50,000 members. >> > >> > >> > >> > Finally, related to the initial post, why does it >> matter how many of the >> > blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? >> That hearkens back to >> > the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser >> jobs. Yes, it may be >> > easier to get them because you are working with and >> being hired by people >> > who have experience with blindness, and are therefore >> less likely to be >> > freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor >> are those who do them >> > less successful people. >> > >> > >> > >> > Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take >> them for what they're >> > worth. >> > >> > >> > >> > Take care, >> > >> > >> > >> > Sean >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 04:52:00 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:52:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: References: <585656.92601.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Arielle, Fair enough- I commend those of you who choose to do so. (and I want to, just not as much) But what fraction of the employed "successful" blind community are actively part of blind consumer organizations? And...is that the main factor in determining whether or not a blind person is employed in the blindness field? All the best to all of you, Kirt On 2/14/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > I think it's important to remember that those of us who are NFB > members have much of our contact with other NFB members and many NFB > members choose to work in blindness rehabilitation or education > because they are drawn to helping resolve the social obstacles that > blind people face. It's entirely possible that the majority of the > blind people who don't join a blindness organization choose not to > work in the blindness field. In fact, some blind people go so far as > to avoid all contact with the blind community. One of my only blind > role models growing up was an attorney who repeatedly told me that the > best thing I could do for myself was to rise above my blindness and > connect with other blind people as little as possible. It apparently > worked for him as he is an intelligent, successful, happily married > man, but I know that's certainly not the way for all of us. Those of > us who choose to join organizations do so in large part because we > want to affiliate with and reach out to other blind people, so > naturally those of us who join consumer organizations will be more > likely to find employment in the blindness field. > > Arielle > > On 2/14/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Kirt, >> You raise some really good points and I happen to totally agree with you. >> I >> think now with unemployment in general being high, unemployment amongest >> the >> blind is higher then 70 percent. The 70 percent was the unemployment in >> the >> 1990s and early 2000s when the national employment was at about 4 to 5 >> percent. Of the 20 percent of blind people who are employment half or more >> are working in a non-main stream environment meaning blindness pesific or >> disability pesific agency or serving people who are eather blind or >> disabled. Others go through a special training to directly related to >> their >> blindness in order to work in a main-stream organization. For example, >> those >> who are working for the IRS are working for a main-stream organization, >> but >> most have gone through a special training at Lions World Services for the >> Blind in order to do their job. The problem I see is that how many blind >> people can go to work for the Division Services for the Blind or the >> Indistry for the Blind? >> You are also correct in that we must consider that some have more then >> just >> blind as a disability which effects their ability to hold a job. We have >> been discussing such issues in one of my class. However, I see to many >> perfectly fine people who's disability is only blindness waste away good >> potential. >> I could on all night discussing this, but these are just my thoughts for >> now. >> >> Anmol >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 2:56 PM >>> Sean, >>>   I'd like to point out a few things. >>>   First...other disabilities, particularly severe >>> cognative >>> disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job >>> eligability.  I >>> don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it >>> is.  I >>> know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who >>> happen to be >>> blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as >>> people, I am >>> fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a >>> person's ability >>> to work.  That's why I'm curious what the unemployment >>> rate is for >>> people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those >>> people, other >>> severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in >>> their >>> unemployed status. >>>   As for the question about blind people working in >>> the blindness >>> field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was >>> implying that was >>> inferior.  I'm just curious because that's where most >>> blind people I >>> know work.  Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally >>> blind person in >>> my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness >>> field...so >>> I think it's a legitimate question.  It's like if I >>> were to ask what >>> percentage of the American working population works in, >>> say, the >>> lobbying business.  That, to me, does not imply the >>> inferiority or >>> superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm >>> interested to >>> know how many employed blind people have jobs in the >>> blindness field. >>> Do you see my point?  I just want to know because I'm >>> a blind person >>> and most blind people I know work primarily with other >>> blind >>> people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show >>> how many >>> blind people work outside of the blindness arena. >>> That's all, I just >>> want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job >>> in the field >>> of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, >>> percentage-wise. >>> In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. >>>   All the best, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen >>> wrote: >>> > People who are not actively looking for employment are >>> considered not to be >>> > part of the labor force. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of >>> nonparticipation is vastly >>> > higher than the rate that would apply to only those, >>> say, under 65. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Blind people with other disabilities are blind people >>> too, so why shouldn't >>> > we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities >>> count in the general >>> > unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. >>> Sure, you could figure >>> > out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and >>> have no other >>> > disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could >>> also find the rate for >>> > the blind people who have no additional disability, a >>> college degree and >>> > IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand >>> selecting who you are >>> > looking at and ignore the population as a whole. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are >>> 25 million blind or >>> > visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has >>> 50,000 members. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Finally, related to the initial post, why does it >>> matter how many of the >>> > blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? >>> That hearkens back to >>> > the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser >>> jobs. Yes, it may be >>> > easier to get them because you are working with and >>> being hired by people >>> > who have experience with blindness, and are therefore >>> less likely to be >>> > freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor >>> are those who do them >>> > less successful people. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take >>> them for what they're >>> > worth. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Take care, >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Sean >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 06:50:23 2011 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:50:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? In-Reply-To: References: <74C68CB2C2F04A83B1ABDE49E1726A41@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <1D4AE7F1-9845-44A9-BA5D-499B568C3ADA@gmail.com> The question of the 70 percent unemployment is a interesting one, and I am glad you ask it, Kirt. I believe all, and especially those of us who read this list, need an injection of education about what the numbers mean, who is tallying them, and how this information is used. Department of Labor data will likely become the golden standard when it comes to accuracy, reliability, and public policy. We must take time to learn the nuances here, and hopefully someone has taken the time to explain the issue. Perhaps a Braille Monitor article will do this justice. It is only a matter of time before we need to start explaining the 70 percent disparity in lots more detail than a simple blanket statement. It is important to understand the full picture, and crucial to speak from the point of view of one who is fully informed about the facts. What are the facts about unemployment for blind people? One is that we are undertrained, and therefore under-skilled. Another is that employers steer away from hiring the disabled in general, and the blind in particular. Another sad fact is that some have become accustomed with the status quo, feer losing bennefits, and lack motivation to reach up to full employment. This last point is likely why so many are counted amongst those not looking for a job. Controversial but true. Sincerely, Antonio Guimaraes On Feb 13, 2011, at 6:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > Arrielle: > > The Department of Labor doesn't count you if you aren't "actively looking for a job. So, I think they say the rate of unemployment for disabled persons is around 14 percent -- but if 56 percent of our population isn't even counted in that figure, primarily because they have been unemployed for so long they get discouraged, etc., this is a problem. > > The 70 percent figure, as originally was "70 percent are unemployed or underemployed." Over the years the under employment part has gotten dropped off -- nevertheless, I don't think anyone knows what our unemployment figure is. > > As someone working in rehab, and in contact with DOL programs my educated guess is that our unemployment rate is probably 40 percent or worse. > > Dave > > > At 04:33 PM 2/13/2011, you wrote: >> Hi Kurt and all, >> >> Since I do psychological research related to blindness and >> rehabilitation, I often have to look up statistics on unemployment and >> other disadvantages blind Americans face when I write grants or make >> presentations about my research. I have been quite troubled by the >> lack of accurate statistics or by the use of statistics that classify >> people with other disabilities in the same category as the blind. >> Recently, beginning in 2008, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) >> began collecting disability-specific employment data. You can find a >> summary by going to >> http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=15&SubTopicID=177 >> >> The survey defines "vision loss" as an affirmative answer to the >> question, "Are you blind or have trouble seeing, even with glasses"? >> It's important to note that according to the BLS there are three >> levels of employment: employed, unemployed but seeking employment, >> and "not in the labor force". While only 6% of blind working-age >> adults (aged 16-64) were classified as "unemployed but seeking >> employment" in September 2010, a frightening 56% were classified as >> "not in the labor force". As a result of this extensive >> non-participation in the labor force, only 38% of all working-age >> blind adults were classified as employed, with 6% unemployed but >> seeking work and the remaining 56% "not in the labor force". By >> comparison, the "labor force nonparticipation" rate for nondisabled >> adults, including those over the age of 65, is 30%, so it's likely to >> be much lower in the working-age population. >> >> Of course I don't really know what "not in the labor force" means. One >> problem is that people are classified as blind if they answer "yes" to >> the blindness question even if they also answer "yes" to other >> questions about additional disabilities. So at this time there's no >> real estimate for people who are just blind. I also don't know if >> someone is counted as "not in the labor force" if they're just not >> actively seeking a job in the month of the survey. But, clearly, there >> is a problem if our rate of workforce non-participation is at least >> double that of the nondisabled population. And, if you look at just >> those blind adults who are actively seeking work, their unemployment >> rate is 13.4%--also significantly higher than that for the >> sighted/nondisabled population. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/13/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> > Hi, >> > Its an old AFB stastic and I heard it includes those with other challenges, >> > like cognitive impairment. >> > For other western countries, goole will help. >> > Something like the Canadian National institute for the blind may help. >> > AFB may also have stats for other countries. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Joshua Lester >> > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 4:50 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate? >> > >> > This can be on the NABS list. In order to get a better answer, though, >> > you must put it on the NFB talk list. >> > Blessings, Joshua >> > >> > On 2/13/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >> Dear nabs list, >> >> I'm not really sure where to ask, but I have a few questions about >> >> our infamous 70 percent unemployment rate. So here goes: >> >> 1. When was the last time we obtained statistics about the >> >> unemployment rate of blind people? (in other words, has it changed at >> >> all, because I've been hearing 70 percent for a long, long time.) >> >> 2. Does this include cognatively disabled people, or is it 70 percent >> >> of those of us who are only blind? (I'm not really concerned about >> >> how people with other physical disabilities impact that statistic) >> >> 3. What are the unemployment rates for other blind people in western >> >> European countries? (that one might be addressed to the gentleman on >> >> the list who suggests we all pack our bags and get the heck out of >> >> America) >> >> And finally.... *big drumroll* >> >> 4. Of the blind people employed in the United States, what percentage >> >> work in the blindness field? >> >> Best, >> >> Kirt >> >> P.S. That last question wasn't meant in any kind of condescending or >> >> judgmental way at all, I'm just curious. As I've said earlier, I >> >> respect qualified blind people who work in the blindness arena. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From freethaught at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 07:08:27 2011 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 02:08:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: References: <585656.92601.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1321B2A7-DCBB-481B-8FBB-06C2C483FDB6@gmail.com> Kirt, While I agree with you that blindness alone should be considered in determining employment rates for blind people, I believe you may be holding too dearly to the blind professionals in the blindness-related work factor. It appears to me that this is slightly beyond a mere curiosity on your part. Let's measure employment for the blind, taking into consideration people who are blind-only. Why not measure the percentage of blind professionals in various positions while we're at it. It shouldn't be hard to take standard methods of economic research and data gathering and apply it to our population. Isn't this sort of thing why the Jernigan Institute was founded? Antonio Guimaraes On Feb 14, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Arielle, > Fair enough- I commend those of you who choose to do so. (and I > want to, just not as much) But what fraction of the employed > "successful" blind community are actively part of blind consumer > organizations? And...is that the main factor in determining whether > or not a blind person is employed in the blindness field? > All the best to all of you, > Kirt > > On 2/14/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I think it's important to remember that those of us who are NFB >> members have much of our contact with other NFB members and many NFB >> members choose to work in blindness rehabilitation or education >> because they are drawn to helping resolve the social obstacles that >> blind people face. It's entirely possible that the majority of the >> blind people who don't join a blindness organization choose not to >> work in the blindness field. In fact, some blind people go so far as >> to avoid all contact with the blind community. One of my only blind >> role models growing up was an attorney who repeatedly told me that the >> best thing I could do for myself was to rise above my blindness and >> connect with other blind people as little as possible. It apparently >> worked for him as he is an intelligent, successful, happily married >> man, but I know that's certainly not the way for all of us. Those of >> us who choose to join organizations do so in large part because we >> want to affiliate with and reach out to other blind people, so >> naturally those of us who join consumer organizations will be more >> likely to find employment in the blindness field. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/14/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Kirt, >>> You raise some really good points and I happen to totally agree with you. >>> I >>> think now with unemployment in general being high, unemployment amongest >>> the >>> blind is higher then 70 percent. The 70 percent was the unemployment in >>> the >>> 1990s and early 2000s when the national employment was at about 4 to 5 >>> percent. Of the 20 percent of blind people who are employment half or more >>> are working in a non-main stream environment meaning blindness pesific or >>> disability pesific agency or serving people who are eather blind or >>> disabled. Others go through a special training to directly related to >>> their >>> blindness in order to work in a main-stream organization. For example, >>> those >>> who are working for the IRS are working for a main-stream organization, >>> but >>> most have gone through a special training at Lions World Services for the >>> Blind in order to do their job. The problem I see is that how many blind >>> people can go to work for the Division Services for the Blind or the >>> Indistry for the Blind? >>> You are also correct in that we must consider that some have more then >>> just >>> blind as a disability which effects their ability to hold a job. We have >>> been discussing such issues in one of my class. However, I see to many >>> perfectly fine people who's disability is only blindness waste away good >>> potential. >>> I could on all night discussing this, but these are just my thoughts for >>> now. >>> >>> Anmol >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 2:56 PM >>>> Sean, >>>> I'd like to point out a few things. >>>> First...other disabilities, particularly severe >>>> cognative >>>> disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job >>>> eligability. I >>>> don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it >>>> is. I >>>> know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who >>>> happen to be >>>> blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as >>>> people, I am >>>> fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a >>>> person's ability >>>> to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment >>>> rate is for >>>> people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those >>>> people, other >>>> severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in >>>> their >>>> unemployed status. >>>> As for the question about blind people working in >>>> the blindness >>>> field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was >>>> implying that was >>>> inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most >>>> blind people I >>>> know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally >>>> blind person in >>>> my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness >>>> field...so >>>> I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I >>>> were to ask what >>>> percentage of the American working population works in, >>>> say, the >>>> lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the >>>> inferiority or >>>> superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm >>>> interested to >>>> know how many employed blind people have jobs in the >>>> blindness field. >>>> Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm >>>> a blind person >>>> and most blind people I know work primarily with other >>>> blind >>>> people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show >>>> how many >>>> blind people work outside of the blindness arena. >>>> That's all, I just >>>> want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job >>>> in the field >>>> of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, >>>> percentage-wise. >>>> In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. >>>> All the best, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen >>>> wrote: >>>>> People who are not actively looking for employment are >>>> considered not to be >>>>> part of the labor force. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of >>>> nonparticipation is vastly >>>>> higher than the rate that would apply to only those, >>>> say, under 65. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Blind people with other disabilities are blind people >>>> too, so why shouldn't >>>>> we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities >>>> count in the general >>>>> unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. >>>> Sure, you could figure >>>>> out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and >>>> have no other >>>>> disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could >>>> also find the rate for >>>>> the blind people who have no additional disability, a >>>> college degree and >>>>> IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand >>>> selecting who you are >>>>> looking at and ignore the population as a whole. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are >>>> 25 million blind or >>>>> visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has >>>> 50,000 members. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Finally, related to the initial post, why does it >>>> matter how many of the >>>>> blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? >>>> That hearkens back to >>>>> the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser >>>> jobs. Yes, it may be >>>>> easier to get them because you are working with and >>>> being hired by people >>>>> who have experience with blindness, and are therefore >>>> less likely to be >>>>> freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor >>>> are those who do them >>>>> less successful people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take >>>> them for what they're >>>>> worth. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take care, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 07:32:52 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 00:32:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate In-Reply-To: <1321B2A7-DCBB-481B-8FBB-06C2C483FDB6@gmail.com> References: <585656.92601.qm@web162014.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1321B2A7-DCBB-481B-8FBB-06C2C483FDB6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Antonio, I really should be asleep...but I guess the list's just too adicting. :) Yes...I am blind, so it's a little more than a "mere curiosity."...I'm curious because I want to know how much, if at all, the deck's stacked against me if I'm planning on working outside the blindness field. And as for your other suggestions about gathering data about the variety of professions in which blind people work...by all means, I'm all for it. It's certainly a worthwhile idea. I'd merely suggest that the number of blind people working in the blindness field is a good place to start looking...as that's where most of the successfully employed blind people I know happen to work. Best, Kirt On 2/15/11, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Kirt, > > While I agree with you that blindness alone should be considered in > determining employment rates for blind people, I believe you may be holding > too dearly to the blind professionals in the blindness-related work factor. > > It appears to me that this is slightly beyond a mere curiosity on your part. > > Let's measure employment for the blind, taking into consideration people who > are blind-only. > > Why not measure the percentage of blind professionals in various positions > while we're at it. > > It shouldn't be hard to take standard methods of economic research and data > gathering and apply it to our population. > > Isn't this sort of thing why the Jernigan Institute was founded? > > Antonio Guimaraes > > > > > > On Feb 14, 2011, at 11:52 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Arielle, >> Fair enough- I commend those of you who choose to do so. (and I >> want to, just not as much) But what fraction of the employed >> "successful" blind community are actively part of blind consumer >> organizations? And...is that the main factor in determining whether >> or not a blind person is employed in the blindness field? >> All the best to all of you, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/14/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I think it's important to remember that those of us who are NFB >>> members have much of our contact with other NFB members and many NFB >>> members choose to work in blindness rehabilitation or education >>> because they are drawn to helping resolve the social obstacles that >>> blind people face. It's entirely possible that the majority of the >>> blind people who don't join a blindness organization choose not to >>> work in the blindness field. In fact, some blind people go so far as >>> to avoid all contact with the blind community. One of my only blind >>> role models growing up was an attorney who repeatedly told me that the >>> best thing I could do for myself was to rise above my blindness and >>> connect with other blind people as little as possible. It apparently >>> worked for him as he is an intelligent, successful, happily married >>> man, but I know that's certainly not the way for all of us. Those of >>> us who choose to join organizations do so in large part because we >>> want to affiliate with and reach out to other blind people, so >>> naturally those of us who join consumer organizations will be more >>> likely to find employment in the blindness field. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/14/11, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>> You raise some really good points and I happen to totally agree with >>>> you. >>>> I >>>> think now with unemployment in general being high, unemployment amongest >>>> the >>>> blind is higher then 70 percent. The 70 percent was the unemployment in >>>> the >>>> 1990s and early 2000s when the national employment was at about 4 to 5 >>>> percent. Of the 20 percent of blind people who are employment half or >>>> more >>>> are working in a non-main stream environment meaning blindness pesific >>>> or >>>> disability pesific agency or serving people who are eather blind or >>>> disabled. Others go through a special training to directly related to >>>> their >>>> blindness in order to work in a main-stream organization. For example, >>>> those >>>> who are working for the IRS are working for a main-stream organization, >>>> but >>>> most have gone through a special training at Lions World Services for >>>> the >>>> Blind in order to do their job. The problem I see is that how many >>>> blind >>>> people can go to work for the Division Services for the Blind or the >>>> Indistry for the Blind? >>>> You are also correct in that we must consider that some have more then >>>> just >>>> blind as a disability which effects their ability to hold a job. We >>>> have >>>> been discussing such issues in one of my class. However, I see to many >>>> perfectly fine people who's disability is only blindness waste away good >>>> potential. >>>> I could on all night discussing this, but these are just my thoughts for >>>> now. >>>> >>>> Anmol >>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>>> breeze >>>> among flowers. >>>> Hellen Keller >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 2:56 PM >>>>> Sean, >>>>> I'd like to point out a few things. >>>>> First...other disabilities, particularly severe >>>>> cognative >>>>> disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job >>>>> eligability. I >>>>> don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it >>>>> is. I >>>>> know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who >>>>> happen to be >>>>> blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as >>>>> people, I am >>>>> fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a >>>>> person's ability >>>>> to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment >>>>> rate is for >>>>> people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those >>>>> people, other >>>>> severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in >>>>> their >>>>> unemployed status. >>>>> As for the question about blind people working in >>>>> the blindness >>>>> field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was >>>>> implying that was >>>>> inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most >>>>> blind people I >>>>> know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally >>>>> blind person in >>>>> my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness >>>>> field...so >>>>> I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I >>>>> were to ask what >>>>> percentage of the American working population works in, >>>>> say, the >>>>> lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the >>>>> inferiority or >>>>> superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm >>>>> interested to >>>>> know how many employed blind people have jobs in the >>>>> blindness field. >>>>> Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm >>>>> a blind person >>>>> and most blind people I know work primarily with other >>>>> blind >>>>> people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show >>>>> how many >>>>> blind people work outside of the blindness arena. >>>>> That's all, I just >>>>> want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job >>>>> in the field >>>>> of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, >>>>> percentage-wise. >>>>> In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 2/14/11, Sean Whalen >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> People who are not actively looking for employment are >>>>> considered not to be >>>>>> part of the labor force. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course the 30% for nonblind folks' rate of >>>>> nonparticipation is vastly >>>>>> higher than the rate that would apply to only those, >>>>> say, under 65. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Blind people with other disabilities are blind people >>>>> too, so why shouldn't >>>>>> we count them? Nonblind folks with other disabilities >>>>> count in the general >>>>>> unemployment and labor force nonparticipation rates. >>>>> Sure, you could figure >>>>>> out an unemployment rate for people who are blind and >>>>> have no other >>>>>> disabilities, but how is that instructive? You could >>>>> also find the rate for >>>>>> the blind people who have no additional disability, a >>>>> college degree and >>>>>> IQ's above the national average, but then you are hand >>>>> selecting who you are >>>>>> looking at and ignore the population as a whole. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I wouldn't trust numbers from AFB - they say there are >>>>> 25 million blind or >>>>>> visually impaired people in the US. Right. And NFB has >>>>> 50,000 members. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, related to the initial post, why does it >>>>> matter how many of the >>>>>> blind people with jobs work in the blindness field? >>>>> That hearkens back to >>>>>> the ridiculous notion that these are somehow lesser >>>>> jobs. Yes, it may be >>>>>> easier to get them because you are working with and >>>>> being hired by people >>>>>> who have experience with blindness, and are therefore >>>>> less likely to be >>>>>> freaked out by it, but they are not inferior jobs, nor >>>>> are those who do them >>>>>> less successful people. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry for the list of disjointed thoughts, but take >>>>> them for what they're >>>>>> worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From djdan567 at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 14:07:27 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:07:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 Message-ID: Hey all! I'm dan, host of The Dan Show that broadcast's live on Wednesdays. It's a radio show i host every week on an online station http://www.tbrn.net I've been doing radio for a while and it's just something i have loved to do since i was very young. I wanted to come by and tell you about my show coming up tomorrow, Wednesday the 16th. Every week, I play your favorite top 40, hiphop, and R&b music, as well as ask two questions, play a prank call recorded by my favorite morning show, Elvis Duran and the morning show, and episode of The Jamie Foxx show, and allow listener interaction by writing into messengers and taking phone calls. I get very interactive with my listeners, so feel free to talk to me, answer the questions, and just have fun. I take requests and everything, so it's a fun show through and through. This week I'm going to give a list of one hit wonders, and going to ask for people to add to the list, going to give a list of things that happen in movies that don't happen in real life, and one of the questions of the week is, what is your opinion on women who do not want to take the last name of their spouse? It'll be fun. Be sure to tune into http://www.tbrn.net tomorrow at 7 P.M, and let the fun begin! Follow me on my personal twitter http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 or the radio show's twitter http://www.twitter.com/TheDanShowLive I'll see you guys there! -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 15 15:49:38 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 10:49:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 References: Message-ID: <000901cbcd27$f602fa40$9560c747@BRIAN> I have been in radio for seven years have you worked at any commercial stations? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:07 AM Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 > Hey all! I'm dan, host of The Dan Show that broadcast's live on > Wednesdays. It's a radio show i host every week on an online station > http://www.tbrn.net > I've been doing radio for a while and it's just something i have loved > to do since i was very young. > I wanted to come by and tell you about my show coming up tomorrow, > Wednesday the 16th. Every week, I play your favorite top 40, hiphop, > and R&b music, as well as ask two questions, play a prank call > recorded by my favorite morning show, Elvis Duran and the morning > show, and episode of The Jamie Foxx show, and allow listener > interaction by writing into messengers and taking phone calls. I get > very interactive with my listeners, so feel free to talk to me, answer > the questions, and just have fun. I take requests and everything, so > it's a fun show through and through. This week I'm going to give a > list of one hit wonders, and going to ask for people to add to the > list, going to give a list of things that happen in movies that don't > happen in real life, and one of the questions of the week is, what is > your opinion on women who do not want to take the last name of their > spouse? > It'll be fun. > Be sure to tune into > http://www.tbrn.net > tomorrow at 7 P.M, and let the fun begin! > Follow me on my personal twitter > http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > or the radio show's twitter > http://www.twitter.com/TheDanShowLive > I'll see you guys there! > > > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 19:10:50 2011 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:10:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? Message-ID: Hi Ashley, I would let your fellow staff members know that it's not "sighted guide" as many blind people quite often lead blind people, and use a phrase like "human guide," as opposed to dog guide, or animal guide. I think you are correct in your approach in saying that we are all different. There is no one way of interacting with someone blind, but there are more effective ways than others. For example, if you are going to do human guide, the person following should lightly place their hand on your elbow: you should not grab someone by the shoulder and lead them. Your question for me, is one which is always strange to consider, as I wouldn't think of training fellow staff on how to interact with Latinos, unless they were traveling to a particular Spanish speaking country and needed to understand cultural differences in etiquette and such. So, is there such a thing as blind etiquette? I would stick to the basics, Human guide... What are the typical interactions which your fellow staff members have with blind individuals? This might help in determining the approach you might want to take on when doing this training. Thanks for reading, Alex From djdan567 at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 19:24:41 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:24:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 In-Reply-To: <000901cbcd27$f602fa40$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <000901cbcd27$f602fa40$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Really? That's awesome. Never have been in commercial radio. I used to want to be but with al the cindication and voicetracking that's going on today, it's hard to get a slot on air. Where do you work? And what do you do> On 2/15/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > I have been in radio for seven years have you worked at any commercial > stations? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:07 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 > > >> Hey all! I'm dan, host of The Dan Show that broadcast's live on >> Wednesdays. It's a radio show i host every week on an online station >> http://www.tbrn.net >> I've been doing radio for a while and it's just something i have loved >> to do since i was very young. >> I wanted to come by and tell you about my show coming up tomorrow, >> Wednesday the 16th. Every week, I play your favorite top 40, hiphop, >> and R&b music, as well as ask two questions, play a prank call >> recorded by my favorite morning show, Elvis Duran and the morning >> show, and episode of The Jamie Foxx show, and allow listener >> interaction by writing into messengers and taking phone calls. I get >> very interactive with my listeners, so feel free to talk to me, answer >> the questions, and just have fun. I take requests and everything, so >> it's a fun show through and through. This week I'm going to give a >> list of one hit wonders, and going to ask for people to add to the >> list, going to give a list of things that happen in movies that don't >> happen in real life, and one of the questions of the week is, what is >> your opinion on women who do not want to take the last name of their >> spouse? >> It'll be fun. >> Be sure to tune into >> http://www.tbrn.net >> tomorrow at 7 P.M, and let the fun begin! >> Follow me on my personal twitter >> http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> or the radio show's twitter >> http://www.twitter.com/TheDanShowLive >> I'll see you guys there! >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 19:33:03 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:33:03 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, I have not read every message on this topic, so please forgive any rehashing that may take place as a result. There is a page on the NFB website dedacated to the "courtesy rules of blindness" I've pasted the text from that page, and wanted to see what people thought about this. would this be something you would tell someone about blindness? does this representyour views and feelings, ordo you have a slightly different view. Below is the text. THE COURTESY RULES OF BLINDNESS Ten simple, straightforward pointers which encourage sighted persons to feel comfortable and at ease with blind persons, is also helpful to know. When you meet me don't be ill at ease. It will help both of us if you remember these simple points of courtesy: list of 10 items 1. I'm an ordinary person, just blind. You don't need to raise your voice or address me as if I were a child. Don't ask my spouse what I want—"Cream in the coffee?"—ask me. 2. I may use a long white cane or a guide dog to walk independently; or I may ask to take your arm. Let me decide, and please don't grab my arm; let me take yours. I'll keep a half-step behind to anticipate curbs and steps. 3. I want to know who's in the room with me. Speak when you enter. Introduce me to the others. Include children, and tell me if there's a cat or dog. 4. The door to a room or cabinet or to a car left partially open is a hazard to me. 5. At dinner I will not have trouble with ordinary table skills. 6. Don't avoid words like "see." I use them, too. I'm always glad to see you. 7. I don't want pity. But don't talk about the "wonderful compensations" of blindness. My sense of smell, touch, or hearing did not improve when I became blind. I rely on them more and, therefore, may get more information through those senses than you do—that's all. 8. If I'm your houseguest, show me the bathroom, closet, dresser, window—the light switch, too. I like to know whether the lights are on. 9. I'll discuss blindness with you if you're curious, but it's an old story to me. I have as many other interests as you do. 10. Don't think of me as just a blind person. I'm just a person who happens to be blind. list end In all 50 states, the law requires drivers to yield the right of way when they see my extended white cane. Only the blind may carry white canes. You see more blind persons today walking alone, not because there are more of us, but because we have learned to make our own way. Best, Darian On 2/15/11, Alexander Castillo wrote: > Hi Ashley, I would let your fellow staff members know that it's not > "sighted guide" as many blind people quite often lead blind people, > and use a phrase like "human guide," as opposed to dog guide, or > animal guide. > > I think you are correct in your approach in saying that we are all > different. There is no one way of interacting with someone blind, but > there are more effective ways than others. > > For example, if you are going to do human guide, the person following > should lightly place their hand on your elbow: you should not grab > someone by the shoulder and lead them. > > Your question for me, is one which is always strange to consider, as > I wouldn't think of training fellow staff on how to interact with > Latinos, unless they were traveling to a particular Spanish speaking > country and needed to understand cultural differences in etiquette and > such. > > So, is there such a thing as blind etiquette? > > I would stick to the basics, Human guide... > > What are the typical interactions which your fellow staff members have > with blind individuals? This might help in determining the approach > you might want to take on when doing this training. > > Thanks for reading, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 15 19:35:04 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:35:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 References: <000901cbcd27$f602fa40$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <001101cbcd47$75ff9f90$9560c747@BRIAN> Dan, Can I email you off list what is your email address I'd love to talk shop with you! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 > Really? That's awesome. Never have been in commercial radio. I used to > want to be but with al the cindication and voicetracking that's going > on today, it's hard to get a slot on air. Where do you work? And what > do you do> > > On 2/15/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I have been in radio for seven years have you worked at any commercial >> stations? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:07 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 >> >> >>> Hey all! I'm dan, host of The Dan Show that broadcast's live on >>> Wednesdays. It's a radio show i host every week on an online station >>> http://www.tbrn.net >>> I've been doing radio for a while and it's just something i have loved >>> to do since i was very young. >>> I wanted to come by and tell you about my show coming up tomorrow, >>> Wednesday the 16th. Every week, I play your favorite top 40, hiphop, >>> and R&b music, as well as ask two questions, play a prank call >>> recorded by my favorite morning show, Elvis Duran and the morning >>> show, and episode of The Jamie Foxx show, and allow listener >>> interaction by writing into messengers and taking phone calls. I get >>> very interactive with my listeners, so feel free to talk to me, answer >>> the questions, and just have fun. I take requests and everything, so >>> it's a fun show through and through. This week I'm going to give a >>> list of one hit wonders, and going to ask for people to add to the >>> list, going to give a list of things that happen in movies that don't >>> happen in real life, and one of the questions of the week is, what is >>> your opinion on women who do not want to take the last name of their >>> spouse? >>> It'll be fun. >>> Be sure to tune into >>> http://www.tbrn.net >>> tomorrow at 7 P.M, and let the fun begin! >>> Follow me on my personal twitter >>> http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> or the radio show's twitter >>> http://www.twitter.com/TheDanShowLive >>> I'll see you guys there! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Tue Feb 15 19:36:03 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:36:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 References: <000901cbcd27$f602fa40$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <001701cbcd47$987779d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Also feel free to call me at 412-862-8644. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 > Really? That's awesome. Never have been in commercial radio. I used to > want to be but with al the cindication and voicetracking that's going > on today, it's hard to get a slot on air. Where do you work? And what > do you do> > > On 2/15/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> I have been in radio for seven years have you worked at any commercial >> stations? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:07 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 >> >> >>> Hey all! I'm dan, host of The Dan Show that broadcast's live on >>> Wednesdays. It's a radio show i host every week on an online station >>> http://www.tbrn.net >>> I've been doing radio for a while and it's just something i have loved >>> to do since i was very young. >>> I wanted to come by and tell you about my show coming up tomorrow, >>> Wednesday the 16th. Every week, I play your favorite top 40, hiphop, >>> and R&b music, as well as ask two questions, play a prank call >>> recorded by my favorite morning show, Elvis Duran and the morning >>> show, and episode of The Jamie Foxx show, and allow listener >>> interaction by writing into messengers and taking phone calls. I get >>> very interactive with my listeners, so feel free to talk to me, answer >>> the questions, and just have fun. I take requests and everything, so >>> it's a fun show through and through. This week I'm going to give a >>> list of one hit wonders, and going to ask for people to add to the >>> list, going to give a list of things that happen in movies that don't >>> happen in real life, and one of the questions of the week is, what is >>> your opinion on women who do not want to take the last name of their >>> spouse? >>> It'll be fun. >>> Be sure to tune into >>> http://www.tbrn.net >>> tomorrow at 7 P.M, and let the fun begin! >>> Follow me on my personal twitter >>> http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> or the radio show's twitter >>> http://www.twitter.com/TheDanShowLive >>> I'll see you guys there! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 15 19:49:50 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:49:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like those Blindness Courtesy rules. I'd like them in a manageable format, so I can give them to every sighted person in my hometown. I'm tired of the same old, same old! Too many people think that I can't care for myself, because of my blindness. It's about time thoughts concerning us change. Thanks, darion for posting this. Blessings, Joshua On 2/15/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hello all, > I have not read every message on this topic, so please forgive any > rehashing that may take place as a result. > There is a page on the NFB website dedacated to the "courtesy > rules of blindness" > I've pasted the text from that page, and wanted to see what people > thought about this. would this be something you would tell someone > about blindness? does this representyour views and feelings, ordo you > have a slightly different view. Below is the text. > > THE COURTESY RULES OF BLINDNESS > Ten simple, straightforward pointers which encourage sighted persons > to feel comfortable and at ease with blind persons, is also helpful to > know. > When you meet me don't be ill at ease. It will help both of us if you > remember these simple points of courtesy: > list of 10 items > 1. I'm an ordinary person, just blind. You don't need to raise your > voice or address me as if I were a child. Don't ask my spouse what I > want—"Cream in > the coffee?"—ask me. > 2. I may use a long white cane or a guide dog to walk independently; > or I may ask to take your arm. Let me decide, and please don't grab my > arm; let me > take yours. I'll keep a half-step behind to anticipate curbs and steps. > 3. I want to know who's in the room with me. Speak when you enter. > Introduce me to the others. Include children, and tell me if there's a > cat or dog. > 4. The door to a room or cabinet or to a car left partially open is a > hazard to me. > 5. At dinner I will not have trouble with ordinary table skills. > 6. Don't avoid words like "see." I use them, too. I'm always glad to see > you. > 7. I don't want pity. But don't talk about the "wonderful > compensations" of blindness. My sense of smell, touch, or hearing did > not improve when I became > blind. I rely on them more and, therefore, may get more information > through those senses than you do—that's all. > 8. If I'm your houseguest, show me the bathroom, closet, dresser, > window—the light switch, too. I like to know whether the lights are > on. > 9. I'll discuss blindness with you if you're curious, but it's an old > story to me. I have as many other interests as you do. > 10. Don't think of me as just a blind person. I'm just a person who > happens to be blind. > list end > > In all 50 states, the law requires drivers to yield the right of way > when they see my extended white cane. Only the blind may carry white > canes. You see > more blind persons today walking alone, not because there are more of > us, but because we have learned to make our own way. > > Best, > Darian > > > > On 2/15/11, Alexander Castillo wrote: >> Hi Ashley, I would let your fellow staff members know that it's not >> "sighted guide" as many blind people quite often lead blind people, >> and use a phrase like "human guide," as opposed to dog guide, or >> animal guide. >> >> I think you are correct in your approach in saying that we are all >> different. There is no one way of interacting with someone blind, but >> there are more effective ways than others. >> >> For example, if you are going to do human guide, the person following >> should lightly place their hand on your elbow: you should not grab >> someone by the shoulder and lead them. >> >> Your question for me, is one which is always strange to consider, as >> I wouldn't think of training fellow staff on how to interact with >> Latinos, unless they were traveling to a particular Spanish speaking >> country and needed to understand cultural differences in etiquette and >> such. >> >> So, is there such a thing as blind etiquette? >> >> I would stick to the basics, Human guide... >> >> What are the typical interactions which your fellow staff members have >> with blind individuals? This might help in determining the approach >> you might want to take on when doing this training. >> >> Thanks for reading, >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 15 20:00:01 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:00:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree. I also like them and would like to find it online; I'll copy and give them out; that is what I was talking about: take the blind person sighted guide but don't grab them; announce when you are coming into the room; above all we are normal people. -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Educating staff? I like those Blindness Courtesy rules. I'd like them in a manageable format, so I can give them to every sighted person in my hometown. I'm tired of the same old, same old! Too many people think that I can't care for myself, because of my blindness. It's about time thoughts concerning us change. Thanks, darion for posting this. Blessings, Joshua On 2/15/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hello all, > I have not read every message on this topic, so please forgive any > rehashing that may take place as a result. > There is a page on the NFB website dedacated to the "courtesy > rules of blindness" > I've pasted the text from that page, and wanted to see what people > thought about this. would this be something you would tell someone > about blindness? does this representyour views and feelings, ordo you > have a slightly different view. Below is the text. > > THE COURTESY RULES OF BLINDNESS > Ten simple, straightforward pointers which encourage sighted persons > to feel comfortable and at ease with blind persons, is also helpful to > know. > When you meet me don't be ill at ease. It will help both of us if you > remember these simple points of courtesy: > list of 10 items > 1. I'm an ordinary person, just blind. You don't need to raise your > voice or address me as if I were a child. Don't ask my spouse what I > want—"Cream in > the coffee?"—ask me. > 2. I may use a long white cane or a guide dog to walk independently; > or I may ask to take your arm. Let me decide, and please don't grab my > arm; let me > take yours. I'll keep a half-step behind to anticipate curbs and steps. > 3. I want to know who's in the room with me. Speak when you enter. > Introduce me to the others. Include children, and tell me if there's a > cat or dog. > 4. The door to a room or cabinet or to a car left partially open is a > hazard to me. > 5. At dinner I will not have trouble with ordinary table skills. > 6. Don't avoid words like "see." I use them, too. I'm always glad to see > you. > 7. I don't want pity. But don't talk about the "wonderful > compensations" of blindness. My sense of smell, touch, or hearing did > not improve when I became > blind. I rely on them more and, therefore, may get more information > through those senses than you do—that's all. > 8. If I'm your houseguest, show me the bathroom, closet, dresser, > window—the light switch, too. I like to know whether the lights are > on. > 9. I'll discuss blindness with you if you're curious, but it's an old > story to me. I have as many other interests as you do. > 10. Don't think of me as just a blind person. I'm just a person who > happens to be blind. > list end > > In all 50 states, the law requires drivers to yield the right of way > when they see my extended white cane. Only the blind may carry white > canes. You see > more blind persons today walking alone, not because there are more of > us, but because we have learned to make our own way. > > Best, > Darian > > > > On 2/15/11, Alexander Castillo wrote: >> Hi Ashley, I would let your fellow staff members know that it's not >> "sighted guide" as many blind people quite often lead blind people, >> and use a phrase like "human guide," as opposed to dog guide, or >> animal guide. >> >> I think you are correct in your approach in saying that we are all >> different. There is no one way of interacting with someone blind, but >> there are more effective ways than others. >> >> For example, if you are going to do human guide, the person following >> should lightly place their hand on your elbow: you should not grab >> someone by the shoulder and lead them. >> >> Your question for me, is one which is always strange to consider, as >> I wouldn't think of training fellow staff on how to interact with >> Latinos, unless they were traveling to a particular Spanish speaking >> country and needed to understand cultural differences in etiquette and >> such. >> >> So, is there such a thing as blind etiquette? >> >> I would stick to the basics, Human guide... >> >> What are the typical interactions which your fellow staff members have >> with blind individuals? This might help in determining the approach >> you might want to take on when doing this training. >> >> Thanks for reading, >> Alex >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 15 20:10:26 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:10:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex, Oh yes, I meant human guide; that is more accurate; I just grew up calling it sighted guide but in later years they called it human guide; that seems more appropriate. There are more effective ways than others and some things are down right rude such as grabbing a person. So that is why I'd just pass along some tips if I could. -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Castillo Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:10 PM To: nabs-l Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? Hi Ashley, I would let your fellow staff members know that it's not "sighted guide" as many blind people quite often lead blind people, and use a phrase like "human guide," as opposed to dog guide, or animal guide. I think you are correct in your approach in saying that we are all different. There is no one way of interacting with someone blind, but there are more effective ways than others. For example, if you are going to do human guide, the person following should lightly place their hand on your elbow: you should not grab someone by the shoulder and lead them. Your question for me, is one which is always strange to consider, as I wouldn't think of training fellow staff on how to interact with Latinos, unless they were traveling to a particular Spanish speaking country and needed to understand cultural differences in etiquette and such. So, is there such a thing as blind etiquette? I would stick to the basics, Human guide... What are the typical interactions which your fellow staff members have with blind individuals? This might help in determining the approach you might want to take on when doing this training. Thanks for reading, Alex _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From mgoalball at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 19:48:08 2011 From: mgoalball at gmail.com (Matt McCubbin) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:48:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Classic Perkins Braille Writers with Warranty For sale Message-ID: <4D5AD878.8020104@gmail.com> A T Guys is pleased to offer the classic, high-quality Perkins Braille Writer at a very competitive price. All braillers are like-new and have been reconditioned by an experienced braille repair technician. We also include a one year warranty against defects to give you added peace of mind. 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To learn more, please visit our website at http://www.atguys.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=57 or give us a call at (269) 216-4798 Best regards, Matt McCubbin A T Guys, LLC Your Assistive Technology Experts (269) 216-4798 http://www.ATGuys.com __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) RECENT ACTIVITY: Visit Your Group -- List Owners: Tom Klaus and Rick Harmon to post a message, send a message to: blind-bst at yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to: blind-bst-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com Other list commands are listed below. Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . __,_._,___ From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 20:53:57 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:53:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Darian, I agree with the vast, vast majority of everything in the "ten courtesy rules of blindness." The only point I take a _slight_ issue with is number 8, and maybe that's just because I'm totally blind, but I don't really care if lights are on and I prefer to ask directions as needed rather than have someone show me everything in their house at first. All the best, Kirt On 2/15/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Alex, > Oh yes, I meant human guide; that is more accurate; I just grew up calling > it sighted guide but in later years they called it human guide; that seems > more appropriate. > There are more effective ways than others and some things are down right > rude such as grabbing a person. > So that is why I'd just pass along some tips if I could. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Castillo > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:10 PM > To: nabs-l > Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? > > Hi Ashley, I would let your fellow staff members know that it's not > "sighted guide" as many blind people quite often lead blind people, > and use a phrase like "human guide," as opposed to dog guide, or > animal guide. > > I think you are correct in your approach in saying that we are all > different. There is no one way of interacting with someone blind, but > there are more effective ways than others. > > For example, if you are going to do human guide, the person following > should lightly place their hand on your elbow: you should not grab > someone by the shoulder and lead them. > > Your question for me, is one which is always strange to consider, as > I wouldn't think of training fellow staff on how to interact with > Latinos, unless they were traveling to a particular Spanish speaking > country and needed to understand cultural differences in etiquette and > such. > > So, is there such a thing as blind etiquette? > > I would stick to the basics, Human guide... > > What are the typical interactions which your fellow staff members have > with blind individuals? This might help in determining the approach > you might want to take on when doing this training. > > Thanks for reading, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From djdan567 at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 21:09:33 2011 From: djdan567 at gmail.com (Daniel Romero) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:09:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 In-Reply-To: <001701cbcd47$987779d0$9560c747@BRIAN> References: <000901cbcd27$f602fa40$9560c747@BRIAN> <001701cbcd47$987779d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: Definitely, go right ahead. On 2/15/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: > Also feel free to call me at 412-862-8644. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel Romero" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 > > >> Really? That's awesome. Never have been in commercial radio. I used to >> want to be but with al the cindication and voicetracking that's going >> on today, it's hard to get a slot on air. Where do you work? And what >> do you do> >> >> On 2/15/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>> I have been in radio for seven years have you worked at any commercial >>> stations? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:07 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 >>> >>> >>>> Hey all! I'm dan, host of The Dan Show that broadcast's live on >>>> Wednesdays. It's a radio show i host every week on an online station >>>> http://www.tbrn.net >>>> I've been doing radio for a while and it's just something i have loved >>>> to do since i was very young. >>>> I wanted to come by and tell you about my show coming up tomorrow, >>>> Wednesday the 16th. Every week, I play your favorite top 40, hiphop, >>>> and R&b music, as well as ask two questions, play a prank call >>>> recorded by my favorite morning show, Elvis Duran and the morning >>>> show, and episode of The Jamie Foxx show, and allow listener >>>> interaction by writing into messengers and taking phone calls. I get >>>> very interactive with my listeners, so feel free to talk to me, answer >>>> the questions, and just have fun. I take requests and everything, so >>>> it's a fun show through and through. This week I'm going to give a >>>> list of one hit wonders, and going to ask for people to add to the >>>> list, going to give a list of things that happen in movies that don't >>>> happen in real life, and one of the questions of the week is, what is >>>> your opinion on women who do not want to take the last name of their >>>> spouse? >>>> It'll be fun. >>>> Be sure to tune into >>>> http://www.tbrn.net >>>> tomorrow at 7 P.M, and let the fun begin! >>>> Follow me on my personal twitter >>>> http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> or the radio show's twitter >>>> http://www.twitter.com/TheDanShowLive >>>> I'll see you guys there! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel C Romero >>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Daniel C Romero >> Paterson New Jersey >> >> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >> MSN messenger/E-mail: >> djdan567 at gmail.com >> Aim: RadioDJ246 >> Skype: radiodj246 >> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan567 at gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 21:57:02 2011 From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:57:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blindness rules Message-ID: I am totally blind and I don't mind if the lights are on and off. I would rather some one show me around their own house because I would mess up their things if I wandered around by myself. I am not always good at asking questions. I would wait on the other person in their house. Other rules I would not have any problems with. I would not add anything more. Would you give these rules to any one in the community not just the school faculty? What about national federation of the blind literature would it be given out to the community around the neighborhood not just in schools? I don't think most people have awareness of blindness. Albert What do other people on the list think? You could get more people in to the nfb student chapters this way by making people aware of blindness. Albert From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Feb 15 22:38:29 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:38:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access Message-ID: Hi all, Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? Novels? Classics? Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time student? What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your notetaker. The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if all students can join for free; I doubt it. Also, how much is the institutional membership? Thanks. Ashley From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Tue Feb 15 22:41:57 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:41:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd just go to www.bookshare.org, to find out. I'm not sure what all they offer. Blessings, Joshua "possessing the promises of Christ" On 2/15/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? Novels? > Classics? > Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time > student? > What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe you > read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your notetaker. > The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if > all students can join for free; I doubt it. > Also, how much is the institutional membership? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue Feb 15 22:49:05 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:49:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download the dasy and strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to learn to use. Jorge On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? Novels? Classics? > Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time student? > What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your notetaker. > The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if all students can join for free; I doubt it. > Also, how much is the institutional membership? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From davidschool97 at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 00:12:29 2011 From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David Thomas) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:12:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Educating staff? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 15, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Joshua Lester wrote: > I like those Blindness Courtesy rules. I'd like them in a manageable > format, so I can give them to every sighted person in my hometown. I'm > tired of the same old, same old! Too many people think that I can't > care for myself, because of my blindness. It's about time thoughts > concerning us change. Thanks, darion for posting this. Blessings, > Joshua > > On 2/15/11, Darian Smith wrote: >> Hello all, >> I have not read every message on this topic, so please forgive any >> rehashing that may take place as a result. >> There is a page on the NFB website dedacated to the "courtesy >> rules of blindness" >> I've pasted the text from that page, and wanted to see what people >> thought about this. would this be something you would tell someone >> about blindness? does this representyour views and feelings, ordo you >> have a slightly different view. Below is the text. >> >> THE COURTESY RULES OF BLINDNESS >> Ten simple, straightforward pointers which encourage sighted persons >> to feel comfortable and at ease with blind persons, is also helpful to >> know. >> When you meet me don't be ill at ease. It will help both of us if you >> remember these simple points of courtesy: >> list of 10 items >> 1. I'm an ordinary person, just blind. You don't need to raise your >> voice or address me as if I were a child. Don't ask my spouse what I >> want—"Cream in >> the coffee?"—ask me. >> 2. I may use a long white cane or a guide dog to walk independently; >> or I may ask to take your arm. Let me decide, and please don't grab my >> arm; let me >> take yours. I'll keep a half-step behind to anticipate curbs and steps. >> 3. I want to know who's in the room with me. Speak when you enter. >> Introduce me to the others. Include children, and tell me if there's a >> cat or dog. >> 4. The door to a room or cabinet or to a car left partially open is a >> hazard to me. >> 5. At dinner I will not have trouble with ordinary table skills. >> 6. Don't avoid words like "see." I use them, too. I'm always glad to see >> you. >> 7. I don't want pity. But don't talk about the "wonderful >> compensations" of blindness. My sense of smell, touch, or hearing did >> not improve when I became >> blind. I rely on them more and, therefore, may get more information >> through those senses than you do—that's all. >> 8. If I'm your houseguest, show me the bathroom, closet, dresser, >> window—the light switch, too. I like to know whether the lights are >> on. >> 9. I'll discuss blindness with you if you're curious, but it's an old >> story to me. I have as many other interests as you do. >> 10. Don't think of me as just a blind person. I'm just a person who >> happens to be blind. >> list end >> >> In all 50 states, the law requires drivers to yield the right of way >> when they see my extended white cane. Only the blind may carry white >> canes. You see >> more blind persons today walking alone, not because there are more of >> us, but because we have learned to make our own way. >> >> Best, >> Darian >> >> >> >> On 2/15/11, Alexander Castillo wrote: >>> Hi Ashley, I would let your fellow staff members know that it's not >>> "sighted guide" as many blind people quite often lead blind people, >>> and use a phrase like "human guide," as opposed to dog guide, or >>> animal guide. >>> >>> I think you are correct in your approach in saying that we are all >>> different. There is no one way of interacting with someone blind, but >>> there are more effective ways than others. >>> >>> For example, if you are going to do human guide, the person following >>> should lightly place their hand on your elbow: you should not grab >>> someone by the shoulder and lead them. >>> >>> Your question for me, is one which is always strange to consider, as >>> I wouldn't think of training fellow staff on how to interact with >>> Latinos, unless they were traveling to a particular Spanish speaking >>> country and needed to understand cultural differences in etiquette and >>> such. >>> >>> So, is there such a thing as blind etiquette? >>> >>> I would stick to the basics, Human guide... >>> >>> What are the typical interactions which your fellow staff members have >>> with blind individuals? This might help in determining the approach >>> you might want to take on when doing this training. >>> >>> Thanks for reading, >>> Alex >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >> But only you can have the drive." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidschool97%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: blindnes rules.doc Type: application/msword Size: 22016 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- hey guys I have made them into a word doc From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 16 00:48:05 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:48:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> References: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> Message-ID: I don't know how to use fs reader either. Are you saying you can get it in two forms: daisy and .brf files? Did it come that way or did you have to translate it to .brf? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download the dasy and strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to learn to use. Jorge On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? > Novels? Classics? > Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time > student? > What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe > you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your > notetaker. > The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if > all students can join for free; I doubt it. > Also, how much is the institutional membership? > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Feb 16 00:56:41 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:56:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: References: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> Message-ID: You choose from the downloads page. On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:48 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I don't know how to use fs reader either. > Are you saying you can get it in two forms: daisy and .brf files? > Did it come that way or did you have to translate it to .brf? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access > > Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download the dasy and strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. > > Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to learn to use. > > > > Jorge > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? Novels? Classics? >> Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time student? >> What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your notetaker. >> The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if all students can join for free; I doubt it. >> Also, how much is the institutional membership? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 01:00:15 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:00:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: References: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi, Ashley, Bookshare has a wide range of fiction and nonfiction selections, so it is a great source of pleasure/personal reading, but to my knowledge it does not carry very many textbooks (although I think this is gradually changing). It can be helpful if you are taking classes like English lit though as you will likely be able to find the classics you are required to read on the site. The files come in both DAISY and BRF formats, so you can choose whichever file type that works better for you (the DAISY files can be played on a Victor Stream, for example, and you can read the brf files on your Braille Note). I know that all full-time students under age 26 can join for free, but I'm not sure about the eligibility of part-time students; I'm sure you can find out by going to the Membership link on the Bookshare site. Hope this helps! Katie On 2/15/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I don't know how to use fs reader either. > Are you saying you can get it in two forms: daisy and .brf files? > Did it come that way or did you have to translate it to .brf? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access > > Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download the dasy and > strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. > > Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to learn to use. > > > > Jorge > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? >> Novels? Classics? >> Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time >> student? >> What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe >> you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your >> notetaker. >> The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if >> >> all students can join for free; I doubt it. >> Also, how much is the institutional membership? >> >> Thanks. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net Wed Feb 16 01:06:04 2011 From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:06:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 References: <000901cbcd27$f602fa40$9560c747@BRIAN> <001701cbcd47$987779d0$9560c747@BRIAN> Message-ID: <001f01cbcd75$b175b4a0$9560c747@BRIAN> what's your email address? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Romero" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 > Definitely, go right ahead. > > On 2/15/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >> Also feel free to call me at 412-862-8644. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Daniel Romero" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:24 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 >> >> >>> Really? That's awesome. Never have been in commercial radio. I used to >>> want to be but with al the cindication and voicetracking that's going >>> on today, it's hard to get a slot on air. Where do you work? And what >>> do you do> >>> >>> On 2/15/11, Brian Hatgelakas wrote: >>>> I have been in radio for seven years have you worked at any commercial >>>> stations? >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Daniel Romero" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:07 AM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Dan show -- Feb. 16, 2011 >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hey all! I'm dan, host of The Dan Show that broadcast's live on >>>>> Wednesdays. It's a radio show i host every week on an online station >>>>> http://www.tbrn.net >>>>> I've been doing radio for a while and it's just something i have loved >>>>> to do since i was very young. >>>>> I wanted to come by and tell you about my show coming up tomorrow, >>>>> Wednesday the 16th. Every week, I play your favorite top 40, hiphop, >>>>> and R&b music, as well as ask two questions, play a prank call >>>>> recorded by my favorite morning show, Elvis Duran and the morning >>>>> show, and episode of The Jamie Foxx show, and allow listener >>>>> interaction by writing into messengers and taking phone calls. I get >>>>> very interactive with my listeners, so feel free to talk to me, answer >>>>> the questions, and just have fun. I take requests and everything, so >>>>> it's a fun show through and through. This week I'm going to give a >>>>> list of one hit wonders, and going to ask for people to add to the >>>>> list, going to give a list of things that happen in movies that don't >>>>> happen in real life, and one of the questions of the week is, what is >>>>> your opinion on women who do not want to take the last name of their >>>>> spouse? >>>>> It'll be fun. >>>>> Be sure to tune into >>>>> http://www.tbrn.net >>>>> tomorrow at 7 P.M, and let the fun begin! >>>>> Follow me on my personal twitter >>>>> http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> or the radio show's twitter >>>>> http://www.twitter.com/TheDanShowLive >>>>> I'll see you guys there! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Daniel C Romero >>>>> Paterson New Jersey >>>>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>>>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>>>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>>>> Skype: radiodj246 >>>>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel C Romero >>> Paterson New Jersey >>> >>> Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 >>> Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 >>> MSN messenger/E-mail: >>> djdan567 at gmail.com >>> Aim: RadioDJ246 >>> Skype: radiodj246 >>> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdan567%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Daniel C Romero > Paterson New Jersey > > Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 > Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 > MSN messenger/E-mail: > djdan567 at gmail.com > Aim: RadioDJ246 > Skype: radiodj246 > Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net From spangler.robert at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 01:31:20 2011 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:31:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blindness rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is definitely great to share literature and explain what the NFB is about. I don't think you are being fair to yourself, however, by saying you will let someone show you around their house because you would mess things up. I let someone show me around their house because that's what they would do for anyone, sighted or not. However, if I am walking around someone's house, I do not feel that I will mess anything up; I just ask them if they have a lot of breakables. If I am in someone's home, I tend to be a little easier with my cane and more cautious in general. Thanks, Robby On 2/15/11, Albert Yoo wrote: > I am totally blind and I don't mind if the lights are on and off. I would > rather some one show me around their own house because I would mess up their > things if I wandered around by myself. I am not always good at asking > questions. I would wait on the other person in their house. Other rules I > would not have any problems with. I would not add anything more. Would you > give these rules to any one in the community not just the school faculty? > What about national federation of the blind literature would it be given out > to the community around the neighborhood not just in schools? I don't think > most people have awareness of blindness. Albert What do other people on the > list think? You could get more people in to the nfb student chapters this > way by making people aware of blindness. Albert > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - SSIPS Committee Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Feb 16 01:48:19 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:48:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: References: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> Message-ID: <4AD0CAD6-B01E-41A6-AC60-DBD67701B046@mac.com> One thing I would add. There are a couple of textbooks, but most are restricted to people with NYMAC access--vision teachers and so on, due to publisher deals. Hope this changes though. Jorge On Feb 15, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi, Ashley, > Bookshare has a wide range of fiction and nonfiction selections, so > it is a great source of pleasure/personal reading, but to my knowledge > it does not carry very many textbooks (although I think this is > gradually changing). It can be helpful if you are taking classes like > English lit though as you will likely be able to find the classics you > are required to read on the site. The files come in both DAISY and BRF > formats, so you can choose whichever file type that works better for > you (the DAISY files can be played on a Victor Stream, for example, > and you can read the brf files on your Braille Note). I know that all > full-time students under age 26 can join for free, but I'm not sure > about the eligibility of part-time students; I'm sure you can find out > by going to the Membership link on the Bookshare site. Hope this > helps! > Katie > > On 2/15/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> I don't know how to use fs reader either. >> Are you saying you can get it in two forms: daisy and .brf files? >> Did it come that way or did you have to translate it to .brf? >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jorge Paez >> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access >> >> Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download the dasy and >> strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. >> >> Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to learn to use. >> >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? >>> Novels? Classics? >>> Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time >>> student? >>> What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe >>> you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your >>> notetaker. >>> The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if >>> >>> all students can join for free; I doubt it. >>> Also, how much is the institutional membership? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 16 02:27:10 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:27:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blindness rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E44B9927F794E649B5C01B5CB388513@OwnerPC> Robby, true; if you're a new guest in a home, its common etiquette to be shown around and the host will tell you where the major things are and then lead you to the living room or where ever you're sitting down. I, too, am just more cautious with my cane and ask if there are breakable things in certain places. But generally using the cane and modifying its arc so its not so wide , is all that's needed. I don't feel anymore at risk or that something will be messed up because I'm almost blind. I just enjoy the house; in some instances I'll go sighted guide as well. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Spangler Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blindness rules It is definitely great to share literature and explain what the NFB is about. I don't think you are being fair to yourself, however, by saying you will let someone show you around their house because you would mess things up. I let someone show me around their house because that's what they would do for anyone, sighted or not. However, if I am walking around someone's house, I do not feel that I will mess anything up; I just ask them if they have a lot of breakables. If I am in someone's home, I tend to be a little easier with my cane and more cautious in general. Thanks, Robby On 2/15/11, Albert Yoo wrote: > I am totally blind and I don't mind if the lights are on and off. I would > rather some one show me around their own house because I would mess up > their > things if I wandered around by myself. I am not always good at asking > questions. I would wait on the other person in their house. Other rules I > would not have any problems with. I would not add anything more. Would you > give these rules to any one in the community not just the school faculty? > What about national federation of the blind literature would it be given > out > to the community around the neighborhood not just in schools? I don't > think > most people have awareness of blindness. Albert What do other people on > the > list think? You could get more people in to the nfb student chapters this > way by making people aware of blindness. Albert > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - SSIPS Committee Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 03:11:41 2011 From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:11:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blindness rules In-Reply-To: <8E44B9927F794E649B5C01B5CB388513@OwnerPC> References: <8E44B9927F794E649B5C01B5CB388513@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Robert, I guess I could ask if they have any breakable stuff. I would go sighted guide. Robert where are you from? Enjoy your night. Albert On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:27 PM, wrote: > Robby, true; if you're a new guest in a home, its common etiquette to be > shown around and the host will tell you where the major things are and then > lead you to the living room or where ever you're sitting down. > I, too, am just more cautious with my cane and ask if there are breakable > things in certain places. But generally using the cane and modifying its > arc so its not so wide , is all that's needed. I don't feel anymore at risk > or that something will be messed up because I'm almost blind. > I just enjoy the house; in some instances I'll go sighted guide as well. > > -----Original Message----- From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blindness rules > > > It is definitely great to share literature and explain what the NFB is > about. > > I don't think you are being fair to yourself, however, by saying you > will let someone show you around their house because you would mess > things up. I let someone show me around their house because that's > what they would do for anyone, sighted or not. However, if I am > walking around someone's house, I do not feel that I will mess > anything up; I just ask them if they have a lot of breakables. If I > am in someone's home, I tend to be a little easier with my cane and > more cautious in general. > > Thanks, > Robby > > On 2/15/11, Albert Yoo wrote: > >> I am totally blind and I don't mind if the lights are on and off. I would >> rather some one show me around their own house because I would mess up >> their >> things if I wandered around by myself. I am not always good at asking >> questions. I would wait on the other person in their house. Other rules I >> would not have any problems with. I would not add anything more. Would you >> give these rules to any one in the community not just the school faculty? >> What about national federation of the blind literature would it be given >> out >> to the community around the neighborhood not just in schools? I don't >> think >> most people have awareness of blindness. Albert What do other people on >> the >> list think? You could get more people in to the nfb student chapters this >> way by making people aware of blindness. Albert >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> >> > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - SSIPS Committee > Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team > Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albert.k.yoo%40gmail.com > From gpaikens at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 04:10:39 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:10:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: <4AD0CAD6-B01E-41A6-AC60-DBD67701B046@mac.com> References: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> <4AD0CAD6-B01E-41A6-AC60-DBD67701B046@mac.com> Message-ID: <0187FB64-030B-4CC2-9E16-8757F8210E8A@gmail.com> I think they are pushing for more textbooks. Also, I have never read about an age limit for the free accounts for students. Ashley, I would recommend getting your own bookshare account instead of waiting for your school to decide since it is free for you. The setup is especially easy if you also use RFB and D or NLS. -Greg On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > One thing I would add. > There are a couple of textbooks, but most are restricted to people with NYMAC access--vision teachers and so on, > due to publisher deals. > > Hope this changes though. > > > Jorge > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > >> Hi, Ashley, >> Bookshare has a wide range of fiction and nonfiction selections, so >> it is a great source of pleasure/personal reading, but to my knowledge >> it does not carry very many textbooks (although I think this is >> gradually changing). It can be helpful if you are taking classes like >> English lit though as you will likely be able to find the classics you >> are required to read on the site. The files come in both DAISY and BRF >> formats, so you can choose whichever file type that works better for >> you (the DAISY files can be played on a Victor Stream, for example, >> and you can read the brf files on your Braille Note). I know that all >> full-time students under age 26 can join for free, but I'm not sure >> about the eligibility of part-time students; I'm sure you can find out >> by going to the Membership link on the Bookshare site. Hope this >> helps! >> Katie >> >> On 2/15/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> I don't know how to use fs reader either. >>> Are you saying you can get it in two forms: daisy and .brf files? >>> Did it come that way or did you have to translate it to .brf? >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:49 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access >>> >>> Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download the dasy and >>> strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. >>> >>> Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to learn to use. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? >>>> Novels? Classics? >>>> Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time >>>> student? >>>> What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe >>>> you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your >>>> notetaker. >>>> The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if >>>> >>>> all students can join for free; I doubt it. >>>> Also, how much is the institutional membership? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From graduate56 at juno.com Wed Feb 16 06:25:16 2011 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 23:25:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFBCO scholarship information. Message-ID: <4832B61EB18B429899C08F335EC5ACCA@melissa> Attached is information about the NFB of colorado state scholarship program. Blessings and kind regards, Melissa Green Each person must live their life as a model for others. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 Scholarship Fact Sheet.doc Type: application/msword Size: 96768 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 Application Form.doc Type: application/msword Size: 96768 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011 SCHOLARFLYER.doc Type: application/msword Size: 89088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 16 15:47:47 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:47:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Book Share access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ashley, If you have been diagnosed as legally blind, and you are a student-- high school or college-- you qualify for Book Share with no charge. When you sign up, Book Share will ask for certain info to confirm this, but once it does, you can access their books and select what option of downloading works best for you. Schools must pay for the service, but since it is free to students, and most have a membership nowadays, schools don't request their own membership-- at least not universities. I would recommend you get your own membership since you hold all the control then. Personally, I do not use Book Share much outside of school, though they do offer a decent selection of literature books. I have found a few textbooks on Book Share, but I am also a writing major so most of my textbooks are literature or anthology books which are more popular. Visit the Book Share website for more info and to learn more about what they can provide. Good luck. Bridgit Message: 13 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:38:29 -0500 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? Novels? Classics? Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time student? What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your notetaker. The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if all students can join for free; I doubt it. Also, how much is the institutional membership? Thanks. Ashley From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Feb 16 16:09:19 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:09:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness rules In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The blindness courtesy rules on the NFB website are a good resource to use. They succinctly summarize the key ideas to keep in mind when meeting blind people. I think we can all agree that we want to be viewed as normal human beings-- just like everyone else. This list simply offers some great advice for people. I agree that I do not care if the lights are on or off. We purchased the energy efficient light bulbs a couple of years ago, but usually when it is just me and the hubby, we don't keep many lights on. And lights give me a headache after a while. However, when sighted people are over, I make sure to turn lights on and ask if the lighting is okay for them. This is mere courtesy. Also, it can be disconcerting for others when we mill about in the darkness even if they know we are blind. We will turn a light on before answering the door for delivery people or if neighbors knock. And I turn lights on when using public restrooms or other public places. In my own home, I do not carry my cane, but when I am at a home that I do not know well, or at all, I make sure to carry my cane until I familiarize myself with the place. One, it just reinforces the idea that I can be independent and safe, two, I don't require my guest to follow me around and inconvenience them in any way. To each his own, but I think it benefits us, and our family and friends, if we learn to do things without constantly having to have some one with us. Blind or sighted, it looks better if we do not require an attendant while learning to navigate a new space. As suggested already, don't fully extend your cane out, use more gentle arcing, and don't constantly reach your hands out to feel for items-- this will lead to knocking stuff over. However, remember that everyone knocks stuff over or spills or trips-- we are human and it is okay to mess up as long as you are doing what you can to travel and navigate as efficiently as possible. My chapter and affiliate keep a ton of Federation brochures and material on hand to disiminate to people at events. As an individual, I think it is equally appropriate to have NFB literature on hand to distribute to people you encounter. It was suggested once to pass this info out during Meet the Blind Month (October) to people you see frequently-- bus drivers, teachers, grocery clerks, etc. Again, my advice is to live your life as you intend, and do not get caught up in what others think you should, or should not, do. We all discover and develop our own little techniques for stuff, and we are normal people who have our own goals and dreams. Independence is about living your life in the most capable, efficient and positive manner you can. Don't be afraid to challenge yourself, but also understand you don't have to jump on every band wagon that pulls into town. Learn to be normal-- whatever that is-- and do not let society's rules and perceptions snare you; though this is easier said than done. Bridgit From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 16:46:23 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:46:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: <0187FB64-030B-4CC2-9E16-8757F8210E8A@gmail.com> References: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com><4AD0CAD6-B01E-41A6-AC60-DBD67701B046@mac.com> <0187FB64-030B-4CC2-9E16-8757F8210E8A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3B665D757FEF4DEB9B749A9269DAAD4E@Rufus> On a podcast recently, it was mentioned that while K-12 education typically uses something in the range of 10,000 textbooks, post-secondary uses up to 300,000. You can see why it is not quite as easy to capture a good chunk of these. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:11 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access I think they are pushing for more textbooks. Also, I have never read about an age limit for the free accounts for students. Ashley, I would recommend getting your own bookshare account instead of waiting for your school to decide since it is free for you. The setup is especially easy if you also use RFB and D or NLS. -Greg On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > One thing I would add. > There are a couple of textbooks, but most are restricted to people with NYMAC access--vision teachers and so on, > due to publisher deals. > > Hope this changes though. > > > Jorge > > > On Feb 15, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > >> Hi, Ashley, >> Bookshare has a wide range of fiction and nonfiction selections, so >> it is a great source of pleasure/personal reading, but to my knowledge >> it does not carry very many textbooks (although I think this is >> gradually changing). It can be helpful if you are taking classes like >> English lit though as you will likely be able to find the classics you >> are required to read on the site. The files come in both DAISY and BRF >> formats, so you can choose whichever file type that works better for >> you (the DAISY files can be played on a Victor Stream, for example, >> and you can read the brf files on your Braille Note). I know that all >> full-time students under age 26 can join for free, but I'm not sure >> about the eligibility of part-time students; I'm sure you can find out >> by going to the Membership link on the Bookshare site. Hope this >> helps! >> Katie >> >> On 2/15/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> I don't know how to use fs reader either. >>> Are you saying you can get it in two forms: daisy and .brf files? >>> Did it come that way or did you have to translate it to .brf? >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:49 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access >>> >>> Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download the dasy and >>> strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. >>> >>> Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to learn to use. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? >>>> Novels? Classics? >>>> Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a full time >>>> student? >>>> What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were text, so maybe >>>> you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your >>>> notetaker. >>>> The community college is considering a membership and they want to know if >>>> >>>> all students can join for free; I doubt it. >>>> Also, how much is the institutional membership? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa ez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm ahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykat ie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa ez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 17:05:46 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society Message-ID: Hi all, So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people don't understand something and want to know what we do. How do people deal with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing you want to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were on, and you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally didn't win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not require said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed and/or taking it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? Darian -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 17:39:15 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:39:15 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] bookshare access In-Reply-To: <3B665D757FEF4DEB9B749A9269DAAD4E@Rufus> References: <203B98CB-9A13-4ADD-B7DE-526F9572CB3A@mac.com> <4AD0CAD6-B01E-41A6-AC60-DBD67701B046@mac.com> <0187FB64-030B-4CC2-9E16-8757F8210E8A@gmail.com> <3B665D757FEF4DEB9B749A9269DAAD4E@Rufus> Message-ID: Ashly, any student can get a free membership, I doubt that the college's membership is going to be free, but they cqan go to the bookshare website www.bookshare.org and check out their FAQ section for more info. Bookshare has a diverse selection of books and is always adding. Darian On 2/16/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > On a podcast recently, it was mentioned that while K-12 education typically > uses something in the range of 10,000 textbooks, post-secondary uses up to > 300,000. You can see why it is not quite as easy to capture a good chunk of > these. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Aikens > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 11:11 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access > > I think they are pushing for more textbooks. Also, I have > never read about an age limit for the free accounts for students. > > Ashley, I would recommend getting your own bookshare account > instead of waiting for your school to decide since it is free for you. > > The setup is especially easy if you also use RFB and D or NLS. > > -Greg > On Feb 15, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> One thing I would add. >> There are a couple of textbooks, but most are restricted to > people with NYMAC access--vision teachers and so on, >> due to publisher deals. >> >> Hope this changes though. >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Feb 15, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Katie Wang wrote: >> >>> Hi, Ashley, >>> Bookshare has a wide range of fiction and nonfiction selections, so >>> it is a great source of pleasure/personal reading, but to my > knowledge >>> it does not carry very many textbooks (although I think this is >>> gradually changing). It can be helpful if you are taking classes like >>> English lit though as you will likely be able to find the > classics you >>> are required to read on the site. The files come in both > DAISY and BRF >>> formats, so you can choose whichever file type that works better for >>> you (the DAISY files can be played on a Victor Stream, for example, >>> and you can read the brf files on your Braille Note). I know that all >>> full-time students under age 26 can join for free, but I'm not sure >>> about the eligibility of part-time students; I'm sure you > can find out >>> by going to the Membership link on the Bookshare site. Hope this >>> helps! >>> Katie >>> >>> On 2/15/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: >>>> I don't know how to use fs reader either. >>>> Are you saying you can get it in two forms: daisy and .brf files? >>>> Did it come that way or did you have to translate it to .brf? >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:49 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] bookshare access >>>> >>>> Equiptment wise I either use the BRF on my note or download > the dasy and >>>> strip it just leaving the HTML version for my computer. >>>> >>>> Though I do have a copy of FS Reader that I still have to > learn to use. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 15, 2011, at 5:38 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Would you say the bookshare is more literature driven or textbooks? >>>>> Novels? Classics? >>>>> Who qualifies for the free membership? Do you have to be a > full time >>>>> student? >>>>> What equipment do you read the files? I thought they were > text, so maybe >>>>> you read them on your computer, or maybe braille display on your >>>>> notetaker. >>>>> The community college is considering a membership and they > want to know if >>>>> >>>>> all students can join for free; I doubt it. >>>>> Also, how much is the institutional membership? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa > ez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm > ahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykat > ie6%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapa > ez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 20:08:49 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:08:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Darian, To answer your first question, regarding getting asked a general question, my personal way of dealing with that would be to answer the question, then say something like: "But really I'm no different than you. Say, did you see the Grammies on Sunday?" To answer your second question, regarding getting somewhere and being offered assistance, I myself have had this happen. First I will say something like: "Thanks, but I'm good." If the person is more insistent, I will say that I know where I am going, but I will always make a point to thank them for offering. Sometimes it can be a great way to educate people by just doing the normal things that everyone else does. Hope This Helps, Patrick On 2/16/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi all, > So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate > into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as > "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general > blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people > don't understand something and want to know what we do. How do > people deal with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last > thing you want to hear is something related to blindness, but the > grammys were on, and you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain > pop star finally didn't win something *smile*. > Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to direct you somewhere, > when you've made it clear that you do not require said assistance? > How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed and/or taking > it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about > the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of > stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does > one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and > keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? > > Darian > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From jkenn337 at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 21:03:17 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 16:03:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Video Description Survey 2011 - Text-to-Speech Preferences Message-ID: <4D5C3B95.40008@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Video Description Survey 2011 - Text-to-Speech Preferences Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:10:56 -0500 From: Mary Watkins To: SpeechSynth2 at mail4.wgbh.org Hello friends of DVS. Please see the invitation below to participate in an online survey. Feel free to forward this posting as you see fit to friends, colleagues and other lists. Thank you. February 16, 2011 Video Description Survey 2011 – Text-to-Speech Preferences IBM Research-Japan and WGBH's Carl and Ruth Shapiro Family National Center for Accessible Media (NCAM) are conducting a joint study on the applicability of speech synthesis for video description. This is the second survey we are conducting as part of this study to solicit reactions to the use of synthesized speech to deliver descriptions of informational Web content. This study will ask you to evaluate different options for text-to-speech (TTS) description placement, content, length and speed. Though we are conducting this study, WGBH does not intend to substitute synthesized speech for human voices on the programs and movies we currently describe. Rather, we are focusing on the potential of using TTS technologies to increase the overall amount of described Web-based media. The survey, accessible via screen-reading software, should take 45-60 minutes. We are eager to hear your opinions, and are grateful for your time and assistance. The survey is posted at this site: _http://www.surveygizmo.com/s/461112/3i40b _ Best, Mary -- Mary Watkins Director of Communications and Outreach Media Access Group at WGBH One Guest Street Boston, MA 02135 617 300-3700 _mary_watkins at wgbh.org _access.wgbh.org Follow the Media Access Group on Facebook and Twitter (@AccessWGBH) WGBH Boston informs, inspires, and entertains millions through public broadcasting, the Web, educational multimedia, and access services for people with disabilities. From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Feb 17 00:02:23 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Message-ID: It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your blindness-- as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments as educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, to the best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to answer questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the discussion. It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, in a diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other interest. Ask the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I think. There is a section with some strong language so if you do not enjoy strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small section that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* The Event of the Century The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's building with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do the same with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill air. It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, and we are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are seven friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be blind. Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating the restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it with our canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I call out, "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes from all directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way to the counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the cashier to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our friends from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into a cup and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the soda fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine which direction to walk around the island, but before I can take another step, a stranger approaches me. "Can I help you?" she asks. "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step around the stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I know what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the island. "It's this way," she says . "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an open table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I follow the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle happening before her eyes. "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra says as I approach the table. We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all use to this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have left the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has always been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and outdated attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism fresh. Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of being blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I very quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. I accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability to solve a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, but because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me exceptional. It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but because others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as a blind person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children because they have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a perceived reality. My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew and nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological clock and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I talk endlessly about them. Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is five and extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. Kensley is two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and then, she gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and full of energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have watched them evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them I see where the future can lie. I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when people find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. "How could you watch children?" "Isn't it difficult?" "Can blind people do that?" I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I respond accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a seven-year-old, five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be dead. I wonder if people think about what they say. The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to them. My actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We think children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults can not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for this, but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all day long. Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get Caiden to stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too many video games you will go blind." Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. Look at Aunt Bridgy." With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and nieces. They are the beginning of a generation that can break the stereotypes about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through these children, I know the effect is lasting. Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed because she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my house, she insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of print. Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on them. She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to "be." Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe what you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my nephew and nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after blindness. Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. My children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view other adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and there is no thought of limitations. Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not respond to visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly adjusted to finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting to be held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When they want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. Kensley and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, I am comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I know where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their location away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand that they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with me. These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I can care for them. Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The world created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys into the antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, but, in my experience, most people still cling to old notions. I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind and declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted as though I had no clue. "What do you mean?" I asked. "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps of the fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to capture a blind person out of their natural environment. I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. "Wow, it's snowing again?" "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be your sixth sense." "No, I feel it. Can't you?" Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I can no longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I try to be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the street. Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a person who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How many sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip across. I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the right-away) is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the green, I stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the dot. Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of boredom. Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on Center Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into oncoming traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this Crazy Carla dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I had no choice but to keep truckin'. Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and shouted, "What the hell are you doing?" "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have the right-away. Shit!" Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out on Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives you the idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" "Can you make it home from here?" I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting around before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" Grabbing my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the perceptions society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was safely and cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed incapable by a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, "Hmm, this person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they must be okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the blind girl standing alone and do not get past that thought. My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people enjoying each other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered the event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to thirty-five, some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted companion. It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any other conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about what to do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing on the television. "You're all blind, right?" he asks. Seven voices chorus, "Yes." Message: 4 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 From: Darian Smith Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people don't understand something and want to know what we do. How do people deal with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing you want to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were on, and you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally didn't win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not require said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed and/or taking it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? Darian From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net Thu Feb 17 04:19:13 2011 From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:19:13 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Message-ID: <8sKE1g00B2PutTY05sKFG4@netzero.net> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people just don't understand about blindness. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Bridgit Pollpeter To: Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your blindness-- >as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments as >educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, to the >best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to answer >questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the discussion. >It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, in a >diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other interest. Ask >the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I think. >There is a section with some strong language so if you do not enjoy >strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small section >that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >The Event of the Century >The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's building >with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do the same >with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill air. >It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, and we >are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are seven >friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be blind. >Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating the >restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it with our >canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I call out, >"I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes from all >directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way to the >counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the cashier >to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our friends >from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into a cup >and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the soda >fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine which >direction to walk around the island, but before I can take another step, >a stranger approaches me. >"Can I help you?" she asks. >"No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step around the >stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I know >what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >island. >"It's this way," she says . >"Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an open >table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >"Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I follow >the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle happening >before her eyes. >"The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra says >as I approach the table. >We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all use to >this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have left >the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has always >been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and outdated >attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism fresh. >Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of being >blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I very >quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. I >accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability to solve >a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, but >because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me exceptional. >It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but because >others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as a blind >person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children because they >have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a perceived >reality. >My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew and >nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological clock >and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I talk >endlessly about them. >Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is five and >extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. Kensley is >two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and then, she >gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and full of >energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have watched them >evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them I see >where the future can lie. >I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when people >find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >"How could you watch children?" >"Isn't it difficult?" >"Can blind people do that?" >I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I respond >accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a seven-year-old, >five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be dead. >I wonder if people think about what they say. >The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to them. My >actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We think >children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults can >not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for this, >but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all day long. >Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get Caiden to >stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too many >video games you will go blind." >Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. Look >at Aunt Bridgy." >With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and nieces. >They are the beginning of a generation that can break the stereotypes >about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through these >children, I know the effect is lasting. >Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed because >she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my house, she >insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of print. >Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on them. >She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to "be." >Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe what >you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my nephew and >nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after blindness. >Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. My >children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view other >adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and there is >no thought of limitations. >Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not respond to >visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly adjusted to >finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting to be >held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When they >want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. Kensley >and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, I am >comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I know >where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their location >away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand that >they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with me. >These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I can care >for them. >Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The world >created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys into the >antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, but, in >my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind and >declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted as >though I had no clue. >"What do you mean?" I asked. >"You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >"Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >"I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >"If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps of the >fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to capture a >blind person out of their natural environment. >I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. "Wow, it's >snowing again?" >"See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be your >sixth sense." >"No, I feel it. Can't you?" >Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I can no >longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I try to >be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the street. >Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a person >who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How many >sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip across. >I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the right-away) >is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the green, I >stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the dot. >Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of boredom. >Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on Center >Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into oncoming >traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this Crazy Carla >dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I had no >choice but to keep truckin'. >Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and shouted, >"What the hell are you doing?" >"Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >"Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have the >right-away. Shit!" >Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out on >Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives you the >idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >"Can you make it home from here?" >I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >"Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting around >before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >"Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" Grabbing >my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the perceptions >society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was safely and >cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed incapable by >a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, "Hmm, this >person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they must be >okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the blind girl >standing alone and do not get past that thought. >My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people enjoying each >other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered the >event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to thirty-five, >some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted companion. >It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any other >conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about what to >do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing on the >television. >"You're all blind, right?" he asks. >Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >From: Darian Smith Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Hi all, > So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate >into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as >"normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people don't >understand something and want to know what we do. How do people deal >with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing you want >to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were on, and >you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally didn't >win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to >direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not require >said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed >and/or taking >it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about >the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of >stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does >one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and >keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? > Darian >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa 5369%40netzero.net From freethaught at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 05:12:51 2011 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 00:12:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3576B62C-09F1-40A6-992A-65AFE188225F@gmail.com> Hmm, I wonder to what extend the blindness focus is curiosity, how much of it is ignorance, or just how much is that the blind person themselves lack wide interests, has little conversation to offer, or has a hard time socializing. I would not think all or most blind people are uninteresting, but there becomes a time when you pass the point of superficial relationships, and present yourself as a friendsly, hopefully smart individual. This coming from an introvert who finds himself at odds with small talk and socializing in large groups. Antonio Guimaraes On Feb 16, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your blindness-- > as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments as > educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, to the > best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to answer > questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other > matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the discussion. > > It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, in a > diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other interest. Ask > the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. > > I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I think. > There is a section with some strong language so if you do not enjoy > strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small section > that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* > > The Event of the Century > > The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's building > with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do the same > with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill air. > It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, and we > are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are seven > friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be blind. > > Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating the > restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it with our > canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I call out, > "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes from all > directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way to the > counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the cashier > to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our friends > from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. > > Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into a cup > and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the soda > fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine which > direction to walk around the island, but before I can take another step, > a stranger approaches me. > > "Can I help you?" she asks. > > "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step around the > stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I know > what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the > island. > > "It's this way," she says . > > "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." > > The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an open > table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. > > "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I follow > the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle happening > before her eyes. > > "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra says > as I approach the table. > > We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all use to > this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have left > the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has always > been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and outdated > attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism fresh. > > Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of being > blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I very > quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. I > accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability to solve > a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, but > because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me exceptional. > > It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but because > others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as a blind > person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children because they > have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a perceived > reality. > > My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew and > nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological clock > and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I talk > endlessly about them. > > Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is five and > extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. Kensley is > two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and then, she > gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and full of > energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have watched them > evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them I see > where the future can lie. > > I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when people > find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. > > "How could you watch children?" > > "Isn't it difficult?" > > "Can blind people do that?" > > I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I respond > accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. > > When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people > usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a seven-year-old, > five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be dead. > > > I wonder if people think about what they say. > > The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to them. My > actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We think > children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults can > not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. > > Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for this, > but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all day long. > > > Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get Caiden to > stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too many > video games you will go blind." > > Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. Look > at Aunt Bridgy." > > With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and nieces. > They are the beginning of a generation that can break the stereotypes > about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through these > children, I know the effect is lasting. > > Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed because > she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my house, she > insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also > fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of print. > Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on them. > She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to "be." > > Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe what > you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my nephew and > nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after blindness. > Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. My > children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view other > adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and there is > no thought of limitations. > > Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not respond to > visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly adjusted to > finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting to be > held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When they > want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. Kensley > and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, I am > comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! > > Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I know > where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their location > away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand that > they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with me. > These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I can care > for them. > > Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The world > created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability > leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys into the > antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, but, in > my experience, most people still cling to old notions. > > I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind and > declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted as > though I had no clue. > > "What do you mean?" I asked. > > "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." > > "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." > > "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." > > "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps of the > fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to capture a > blind person out of their natural environment. > > I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. "Wow, it's > snowing again?" > > "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be your > sixth sense." > > "No, I feel it. Can't you?" > > Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I can no > longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I try to > be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. > > I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the street. > Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the > traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a person > who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a > street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How many > sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. > > Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip across. > I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the right-away) > is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the green, I > stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the dot. > Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of boredom. > > Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on Center > Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into oncoming > traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this Crazy Carla > dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I had no > choice but to keep truckin'. > > Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and shouted, > "What the hell are you doing?" > > "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. > > "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have the > right-away. Shit!" > > Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out on > Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. > > Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives you the > idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" > > "Can you make it home from here?" > > I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? > > "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting around > before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" > > "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" > > Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" Grabbing > my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. > > No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the perceptions > society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was safely and > cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed incapable by > a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and > themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, "Hmm, this > person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they must be > okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the blind girl > standing alone and do not get past that thought. > > My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people enjoying each > other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered the > event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to thirty-five, > some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome > accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted companion. > > It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any other > conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about what to > do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing on the > television. > > "You're all blind, right?" he asks. > > Seven voices chorus, "Yes." > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 > From: Darian Smith > Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi all, > So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate > into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as > "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general > blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people don't > understand something and want to know what we do. How do people deal > with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing you want > to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were on, and > you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally didn't > win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to > direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not require > said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed > and/or taking > it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about > the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of > stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does > one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and > keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? > > Darian > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 05:42:00 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:42:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <3576B62C-09F1-40A6-992A-65AFE188225F@gmail.com> References: <3576B62C-09F1-40A6-992A-65AFE188225F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Antonio, I feel like a lot of my blind friends, at least when I'm with them, talk mostly about blindness-related things. (and I'm not talking about meetings or formal discussions...I'm talking like when we hang out casually) So much of the conversation has to do with such and such audio computer game, which notetaker is better, gossip about other blind people (even if you hardly know them) that sort of thing. And most of these people, it seems like, don't even try to become well-rounded in the world outside their blind comfort zones. I know someone here's going to quote me out of context, or misunderstand, so let me clarify. My gripe isn't with blindness. It isn't with blind people supporting each other, hanging out together, being friends, marrying each other, working in jobs with other blind people, etc. But when blindness becomes a person's identity, when a person's life is his/her few blind friends, and when that person doesn't even try to meet people and broaden horizons outside their group of blind people, it bothers me. Blindness doesn't really make me that different from everyone else, but so many blind people isolate themselves in a blindness-centered life and, yeah, I think that's really, really bad for our public image. Best, Kirt On 2/16/11, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Hmm, > > I wonder to what extend the blindness focus is curiosity, how much of it is > ignorance, or just how much is that the blind person themselves lack wide > interests, has little conversation to offer, or has a hard time socializing. > > I would not think all or most blind people are uninteresting, but there > becomes a time when you pass the point of superficial relationships, and > present yourself as a friendsly, hopefully smart individual. > > This coming from an introvert who finds himself at odds with small talk and > socializing in large groups. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > > > > On Feb 16, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > >> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your blindness-- >> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments as >> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, to the >> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to answer >> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the discussion. >> >> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, in a >> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other interest. Ask >> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >> >> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I think. >> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not enjoy >> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small section >> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >> >> The Event of the Century >> >> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's building >> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do the same >> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill air. >> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, and we >> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are seven >> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be blind. >> >> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating the >> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it with our >> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I call out, >> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes from all >> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way to the >> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the cashier >> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our friends >> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >> >> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into a cup >> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the soda >> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine which >> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take another step, >> a stranger approaches me. >> >> "Can I help you?" she asks. >> >> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step around the >> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I know >> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >> island. >> >> "It's this way," she says . >> >> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >> >> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an open >> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >> >> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I follow >> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle happening >> before her eyes. >> >> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra says >> as I approach the table. >> >> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all use to >> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have left >> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has always >> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and outdated >> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism fresh. >> >> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of being >> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I very >> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. I >> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability to solve >> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, but >> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me exceptional. >> >> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but because >> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as a blind >> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children because they >> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a perceived >> reality. >> >> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew and >> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological clock >> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I talk >> endlessly about them. >> >> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is five and >> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. Kensley is >> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and then, she >> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and full of >> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have watched them >> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them I see >> where the future can lie. >> >> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when people >> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >> >> "How could you watch children?" >> >> "Isn't it difficult?" >> >> "Can blind people do that?" >> >> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I respond >> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >> >> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a seven-year-old, >> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be dead. >> >> >> I wonder if people think about what they say. >> >> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to them. My >> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We think >> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults can >> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >> >> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for this, >> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all day long. >> >> >> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get Caiden to >> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too many >> video games you will go blind." >> >> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. Look >> at Aunt Bridgy." >> >> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and nieces. >> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the stereotypes >> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through these >> children, I know the effect is lasting. >> >> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed because >> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my house, she >> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of print. >> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on them. >> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to "be." >> >> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe what >> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my nephew and >> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after blindness. >> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. My >> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view other >> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and there is >> no thought of limitations. >> >> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not respond to >> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly adjusted to >> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting to be >> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When they >> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. Kensley >> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, I am >> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >> >> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I know >> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their location >> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand that >> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with me. >> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I can care >> for them. >> >> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The world >> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys into the >> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, but, in >> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >> >> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind and >> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted as >> though I had no clue. >> >> "What do you mean?" I asked. >> >> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >> >> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >> >> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >> >> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps of the >> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to capture a >> blind person out of their natural environment. >> >> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. "Wow, it's >> snowing again?" >> >> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be your >> sixth sense." >> >> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >> >> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I can no >> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I try to >> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >> >> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the street. >> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a person >> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How many >> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >> >> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip across. >> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the right-away) >> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the green, I >> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the dot. >> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of boredom. >> >> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on Center >> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into oncoming >> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this Crazy Carla >> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I had no >> choice but to keep truckin'. >> >> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and shouted, >> "What the hell are you doing?" >> >> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >> >> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have the >> right-away. Shit!" >> >> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out on >> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >> >> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives you the >> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >> >> "Can you make it home from here?" >> >> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >> >> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting around >> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >> >> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >> >> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" Grabbing >> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >> >> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the perceptions >> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was safely and >> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed incapable by >> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, "Hmm, this >> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they must be >> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the blind girl >> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >> >> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people enjoying each >> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered the >> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to thirty-five, >> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted companion. >> >> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any other >> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about what to >> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing on the >> television. >> >> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >> >> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >> From: Darian Smith >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi all, >> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate >> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as >> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people don't >> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people deal >> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing you want >> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were on, and >> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally didn't >> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to >> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not require >> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed >> and/or taking >> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about >> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of >> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does >> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and >> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >> >> Darian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 06:12:09 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 23:12:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math Message-ID: Dear Nabs-ers, I have a question for all y'all that came up in conversation with my roommate just a minute ago. Have any of you taken highly advanced college math classes? (I'm not talking general-ed math, I'm talking like calculus and linear algebra and classes like that) Because I'm sure it's possible, I'm sure it's been done, but I don't know any blind person who's taken math classes at that high of a level. I'm sure some of you have, so please let me know so I can tell my roommate it can be done. (also...if you happen to be totally blind, that'll help my case a lot, just sayin...:)) Best, Kirt From brice.smith319 at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 14:16:20 2011 From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:16:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: References: <3576B62C-09F1-40A6-992A-65AFE188225F@gmail.com> Message-ID: These conversations are always interesting to me, because I don't usually have the same experiences as Bridgit and others. I sometimes get comments about my blindness, but they occur only occasionally and are rarely a big deal. Many people my age seem curious about blindness only in passing. Kirt, Conversation with anyone, blind or sited, best flows naturally. Sometimes you will talk about blindness. Sometimes you will not. Obviously, talking only about issues related to blindness does not make for well-rounded individuals. But when you consciously avoid a topic just for the sake of avoiding it, you also have a problem. Brice On 2/17/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Antonio, > I feel like a lot of my blind friends, at least when I'm with them, > talk mostly about blindness-related things. (and I'm not talking > about meetings or formal discussions...I'm talking like when we hang > out casually) So much of the conversation has to do with such and > such audio computer game, which notetaker is better, gossip about > other blind people (even if you hardly know them) that sort of thing. > And most of these people, it seems like, don't even try to become > well-rounded in the world outside their blind comfort zones. > I know someone here's going to quote me out of context, or > misunderstand, so let me clarify. My gripe isn't with blindness. It > isn't with blind people supporting each other, hanging out together, > being friends, marrying each other, working in jobs with other blind > people, etc. But when blindness becomes a person's identity, when a > person's life is his/her few blind friends, and when that person > doesn't even try to meet people and broaden horizons outside their > group of blind people, it bothers me. Blindness doesn't really make > me that different from everyone else, but so many blind people isolate > themselves in a blindness-centered life and, yeah, I think that's > really, really bad for our public image. > Best, > Kirt > > On 2/16/11, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: >> Hmm, >> >> I wonder to what extend the blindness focus is curiosity, how much of it >> is >> ignorance, or just how much is that the blind person themselves lack wide >> interests, has little conversation to offer, or has a hard time >> socializing. >> >> I would not think all or most blind people are uninteresting, but there >> becomes a time when you pass the point of superficial relationships, and >> present yourself as a friendsly, hopefully smart individual. >> >> This coming from an introvert who finds himself at odds with small talk >> and >> socializing in large groups. >> >> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: >> >>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your blindness-- >>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments as >>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, to the >>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to answer >>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the discussion. >>> >>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, in a >>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other interest. Ask >>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >>> >>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I think. >>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not enjoy >>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small section >>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >>> >>> The Event of the Century >>> >>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's building >>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do the same >>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill air. >>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, and we >>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are seven >>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be blind. >>> >>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating the >>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it with our >>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I call out, >>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes from all >>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way to the >>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the cashier >>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our friends >>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >>> >>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into a cup >>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the soda >>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine which >>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take another step, >>> a stranger approaches me. >>> >>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >>> >>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step around the >>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I know >>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>> island. >>> >>> "It's this way," she says . >>> >>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >>> >>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an open >>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >>> >>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I follow >>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle happening >>> before her eyes. >>> >>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra says >>> as I approach the table. >>> >>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all use to >>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have left >>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has always >>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and outdated >>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism fresh. >>> >>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of being >>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I very >>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. I >>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability to solve >>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, but >>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me exceptional. >>> >>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but because >>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as a blind >>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children because they >>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a perceived >>> reality. >>> >>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew and >>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological clock >>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I talk >>> endlessly about them. >>> >>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is five and >>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. Kensley is >>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and then, she >>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and full of >>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have watched them >>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them I see >>> where the future can lie. >>> >>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when people >>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >>> >>> "How could you watch children?" >>> >>> "Isn't it difficult?" >>> >>> "Can blind people do that?" >>> >>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I respond >>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >>> >>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a seven-year-old, >>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be dead. >>> >>> >>> I wonder if people think about what they say. >>> >>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to them. My >>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We think >>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults can >>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >>> >>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for this, >>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all day long. >>> >>> >>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get Caiden to >>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too many >>> video games you will go blind." >>> >>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. Look >>> at Aunt Bridgy." >>> >>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and nieces. >>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the stereotypes >>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through these >>> children, I know the effect is lasting. >>> >>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed because >>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my house, she >>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of print. >>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on them. >>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to "be." >>> >>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe what >>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my nephew and >>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after blindness. >>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. My >>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view other >>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and there is >>> no thought of limitations. >>> >>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not respond to >>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly adjusted to >>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting to be >>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When they >>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. Kensley >>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, I am >>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >>> >>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I know >>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their location >>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand that >>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with me. >>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I can care >>> for them. >>> >>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The world >>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys into the >>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, but, in >>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >>> >>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind and >>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted as >>> though I had no clue. >>> >>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >>> >>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >>> >>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >>> >>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >>> >>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps of the >>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to capture a >>> blind person out of their natural environment. >>> >>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. "Wow, it's >>> snowing again?" >>> >>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be your >>> sixth sense." >>> >>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >>> >>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I can no >>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I try to >>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >>> >>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the street. >>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a person >>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How many >>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >>> >>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip across. >>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the right-away) >>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the green, I >>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the dot. >>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of boredom. >>> >>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on Center >>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into oncoming >>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this Crazy Carla >>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I had no >>> choice but to keep truckin'. >>> >>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and shouted, >>> "What the hell are you doing?" >>> >>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >>> >>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have the >>> right-away. Shit!" >>> >>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out on >>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >>> >>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives you the >>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >>> >>> "Can you make it home from here?" >>> >>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >>> >>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting around >>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >>> >>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >>> >>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" Grabbing >>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >>> >>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the perceptions >>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was safely and >>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed incapable by >>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, "Hmm, this >>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they must be >>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the blind girl >>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >>> >>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people enjoying each >>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered the >>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to thirty-five, >>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted companion. >>> >>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any other >>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about what to >>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing on the >>> television. >>> >>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >>> >>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>> From: Darian Smith >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> Hi all, >>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate >>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as >>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people don't >>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people deal >>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing you want >>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were on, and >>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally didn't >>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to >>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not require >>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed >>> and/or taking >>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about >>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of >>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does >>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and >>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >>> >>> Darian >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com > -- Brice Smith North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com From bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net Thu Feb 17 14:36:16 2011 From: bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net (Bernadetta Pracon) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:36:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Message-ID: <20110217143616.23224.59327@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Bridgit, Great essay. I really enjoyed reading it. I think it definitely echos the way we all feel. Bernadetta P. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From gpaikens at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 14:58:56 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:58:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kurt, This sounds like a silly argument but I'll indulge you. As part of my undergrad degree in computer science I nearly earned a minor in math. I had to take two calculus classes, a discrete math class, and a linear algebra class. I opted to take the half semester matrix algebra class instead of linear algebra, not because I'm blind but because I was lazy. Matrix algebra is no joke though, just half the number of classes and homework assignments. A lot of the upper level algorithms courses in computer science also make use of advanced math such as calculus. I know there are others on this list who have or are majoring in computer science and I'm sure they have similar degree requirements. I would suspect that many blind people have taken these advanced math courses, not just a handful. What about Dr. Nemeth? And yes, I am totally blind. Hope this helps you win an argument and broadens your knowledge about the experiences of other blind people. Greg On Feb 17, 2011, at 12:12 AM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Dear Nabs-ers, > I have a question for all y'all that came up in conversation with my > roommate just a minute ago. Have any of you taken highly advanced > college math classes? (I'm not talking general-ed math, I'm talking > like calculus and linear algebra and classes like that) Because I'm > sure it's possible, I'm sure it's been done, but I don't know any > blind person who's taken math classes at that high of a level. I'm > sure some of you have, so please let me know so I can tell my roommate > it can be done. (also...if you happen to be totally blind, that'll > help my case a lot, just sayin...:)) > Best, > Kirt > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 15:54:47 2011 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:54:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society References: <3576B62C-09F1-40A6-992A-65AFE188225F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002801cbcebb$040f2a20$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> I don't know if it's only me or maybe because I've always been mainstreamed, but I usually get bored around blind people. I feel as if I have better things to talk about that the sighted people find interesting. Speaking from experience of living in a country where the blind aren't as educated or as "normal" as in the US I find that I can educate the sighted people more than sticking around other blind people. Gerardo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Antonio, I feel like a lot of my blind friends, at least when I'm with them, talk mostly about blindness-related things. (and I'm not talking about meetings or formal discussions...I'm talking like when we hang out casually) So much of the conversation has to do with such and such audio computer game, which notetaker is better, gossip about other blind people (even if you hardly know them) that sort of thing. And most of these people, it seems like, don't even try to become well-rounded in the world outside their blind comfort zones. I know someone here's going to quote me out of context, or misunderstand, so let me clarify. My gripe isn't with blindness. It isn't with blind people supporting each other, hanging out together, being friends, marrying each other, working in jobs with other blind people, etc. But when blindness becomes a person's identity, when a person's life is his/her few blind friends, and when that person doesn't even try to meet people and broaden horizons outside their group of blind people, it bothers me. Blindness doesn't really make me that different from everyone else, but so many blind people isolate themselves in a blindness-centered life and, yeah, I think that's really, really bad for our public image. Best, Kirt On 2/16/11, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Hmm, > > I wonder to what extend the blindness focus is curiosity, how much of it > is > ignorance, or just how much is that the blind person themselves lack wide > interests, has little conversation to offer, or has a hard time > socializing. > > I would not think all or most blind people are uninteresting, but there > becomes a time when you pass the point of superficial relationships, and > present yourself as a friendsly, hopefully smart individual. > > This coming from an introvert who finds himself at odds with small talk > and > socializing in large groups. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > > > > On Feb 16, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter wrote: > >> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your blindness-- >> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments as >> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, to the >> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to answer >> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the discussion. >> >> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, in a >> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other interest. Ask >> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >> >> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I think. >> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not enjoy >> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small section >> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >> >> The Event of the Century >> >> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's building >> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do the same >> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill air. >> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, and we >> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are seven >> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be blind. >> >> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating the >> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it with our >> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I call out, >> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes from all >> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way to the >> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the cashier >> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our friends >> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >> >> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into a cup >> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the soda >> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine which >> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take another step, >> a stranger approaches me. >> >> "Can I help you?" she asks. >> >> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step around the >> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I know >> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >> island. >> >> "It's this way," she says . >> >> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >> >> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an open >> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >> >> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I follow >> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle happening >> before her eyes. >> >> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra says >> as I approach the table. >> >> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all use to >> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have left >> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has always >> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and outdated >> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism fresh. >> >> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of being >> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I very >> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. I >> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability to solve >> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, but >> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me exceptional. >> >> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but because >> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as a blind >> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children because they >> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a perceived >> reality. >> >> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew and >> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological clock >> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I talk >> endlessly about them. >> >> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is five and >> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. Kensley is >> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and then, she >> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and full of >> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have watched them >> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them I see >> where the future can lie. >> >> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when people >> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >> >> "How could you watch children?" >> >> "Isn't it difficult?" >> >> "Can blind people do that?" >> >> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I respond >> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >> >> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a seven-year-old, >> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be dead. >> >> >> I wonder if people think about what they say. >> >> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to them. My >> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We think >> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults can >> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >> >> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for this, >> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all day long. >> >> >> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get Caiden to >> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too many >> video games you will go blind." >> >> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. Look >> at Aunt Bridgy." >> >> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and nieces. >> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the stereotypes >> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through these >> children, I know the effect is lasting. >> >> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed because >> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my house, she >> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of print. >> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on them. >> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to "be." >> >> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe what >> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my nephew and >> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after blindness. >> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. My >> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view other >> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and there is >> no thought of limitations. >> >> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not respond to >> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly adjusted to >> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting to be >> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When they >> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. Kensley >> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, I am >> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >> >> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I know >> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their location >> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand that >> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with me. >> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I can care >> for them. >> >> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The world >> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys into the >> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, but, in >> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >> >> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind and >> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted as >> though I had no clue. >> >> "What do you mean?" I asked. >> >> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >> >> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >> >> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >> >> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps of the >> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to capture a >> blind person out of their natural environment. >> >> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. "Wow, it's >> snowing again?" >> >> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be your >> sixth sense." >> >> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >> >> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I can no >> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I try to >> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >> >> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the street. >> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a person >> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How many >> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >> >> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip across. >> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the right-away) >> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the green, I >> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the dot. >> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of boredom. >> >> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on Center >> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into oncoming >> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this Crazy Carla >> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I had no >> choice but to keep truckin'. >> >> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and shouted, >> "What the hell are you doing?" >> >> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >> >> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have the >> right-away. Shit!" >> >> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out on >> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >> >> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives you the >> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >> >> "Can you make it home from here?" >> >> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >> >> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting around >> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >> >> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >> >> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" Grabbing >> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >> >> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the perceptions >> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was safely and >> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed incapable by >> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, "Hmm, this >> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they must be >> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the blind girl >> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >> >> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people enjoying each >> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered the >> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to thirty-five, >> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted companion. >> >> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any other >> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about what to >> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing on the >> television. >> >> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >> >> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >> From: Darian Smith >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi all, >> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate >> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as >> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people don't >> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people deal >> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing you want >> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were on, and >> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally didn't >> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to >> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not require >> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed >> and/or taking >> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about >> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of >> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does >> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and >> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >> >> Darian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 16:06:53 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:06:53 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <20110217143616.23224.59327@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> References: <20110217143616.23224.59327@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: On the topic of blind people in blindness-related conversation: I believe that's not at all uncommon or unreasonable. Ifyou are around blind friends and something blindness related comes up, then it comes up. It's normal for any ethnic group to have conversations of or relating to their culture or ethnicity. Can those conversations run a little long and be overkill, sure they can. And while I could guess that we've gotten caught up in a little more "blindness talk" than we might expect every once in a while, I am not too sure how this translates into how we deal with the sighted community's perceptions of us, yet respect where we as a person/people are at the time? We may know the truth about blindness, but does that mmean that we need to walk around with nfb litriture in our back pack ready to wirl around with something in hand in responce to "why do you use that stick?" or, "you must be really good at music"? Doesn't that underscore why we are different more than equil? just some thoughts. Respectfully, Darian On 2/17/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: > Bridgit, > Great essay. I really enjoyed reading it. I think it definitely echos > the way we all feel. > > Bernadetta P. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 17 16:09:57 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:09:57 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math References: Message-ID: <009901cbcebd$1f930260$7201a8c0@server> Hello Curt, Many totally blind people have taken advanced math classes and have actually obtained PhD's in math. I went to engineering school and took calculus, differential equations, partial differential equations, and linear algebra. I had all of my books in Braille, and speaking only for myself, I could not have successfully taken these classes without Braille books. Hope that helps. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirt Manwaring" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:12 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math > Dear Nabs-ers, > I have a question for all y'all that came up in conversation with my > roommate just a minute ago. Have any of you taken highly advanced > college math classes? (I'm not talking general-ed math, I'm talking > like calculus and linear algebra and classes like that) Because I'm > sure it's possible, I'm sure it's been done, but I don't know any > blind person who's taken math classes at that high of a level. I'm > sure some of you have, so please let me know so I can tell my roommate > it can be done. (also...if you happen to be totally blind, that'll > help my case a lot, just sayin...:)) > Best, > Kirt > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From gcazares10 at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 17:38:44 2011 From: gcazares10 at gmail.com (Gabriel Cazares) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:38:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Providing Public Comments about Accessible Instructional Materials & Feb 24 2011 Public Hearing In-Reply-To: <001801cbcec8$173e21c0$45ba6540$@net> References: <001801cbcec8$173e21c0$45ba6540$@net> Message-ID: Read the message below, and consider providing your input. ...Gabe ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mike Vandervoort Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:28:27 -0600 Subject: Providing Public Comments about Accessible Instructional Materials & Feb 24 2011 Public Hearing To: Linda Grant , Richie Flores , Steve Tompkins , Gabriel Cazares , Juan Carlos Munoz , Kathy Turner Cc: Marilyn Monroe , Mary Kindrick , Robert Vandervoort If you would, please respond to the enclosed invitation and also forward this info to anyone wishing to provide public comment regarding accessible instructional materials in a post-secondary education institute (yes, all of you college folks J ! ) Now is the time to tell the federal government your experience and what you think might improve matters. You can either send in your comments or ask to be part of a telephone testimony session on February 24. Please read the following for more information. Regardless of how you may choose to participate, please send in your comments by email to AIMCommission at ed.gov. ! If things are going to get any better for those who are blind or suffer other print disabilities, the more people expressing themselves about the problems and providing possible solutions, the better. NOW IS THE TIME TO SOMETHING!!! Thank you, Mike Vandervoort Abilene, Texas 325-513-9552 Member, Abilene Disability Awareness Committee Board Member, National Federation of the Blind of Texas, Abilene Chapter Owner/Operator of Vandervoort's Vending (a Randolph Sheppard Program Operation) ========================================================================== Commission Meeting February 24-25, 2011 Hyatt Regency Jacksonville Riverfront Hotel 225 East Coastline Drive, Jacksonville, Florida 32202 Date: February 24 & 25, 2011, Room: Board Room 4 Commission Meeting and Public Hearing Internet Access The Commission meetings will be broadcast live via iLinc webinar on Thursday, February 24 (8:30 AM - 3:30 PM) and Friday February 25 (8:30 AM - 4:00 PM) and the Public Hearing on Thursday, February 24 (4:30 PM - 9:00 PM); all times Eastern . Webinar login information is noted below: The Commission strongly recommends that remote attendees perform a systems and audio test when first logging in at least 15 minutes prior to the scheduled meeting time. The links below will be available 30 minutes prior to the start of each meeting. For internet audio, you will need either computer speakers or headphones to hear the proceedings. The Audio Wizard sets the volume for your speakers and microphone and configures your computer to use audio correctly. This ensures that you will be able to hear participants during the meetings. The Audio Wizard pops up automatically after you first install the iLinc Client. You can also run the Audio Wizard anytime you encounter audio problems during a session by going to Menu bar >Tools > Audio Wizard. Please note that all public meeting attendees will be muted throughout the meeting period. Meeting log-in information: Thursday, February 24 (8:30 AM - 3:30 PM): https://aimpsc.ilinc.com/join/rrrmxwh Day 1 of the third meeting of the Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities Thursday, February 24 (4:30 PM - 9:00 PM): https://aimpsc.ilinc.com/join/yvyhyrz Public Hearing of the third meeting of the Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities Friday, February 25 (8:30 AM - 4:00 PM): https://aimpsc.ilinc.com/join/rrrmrvz Day 2 of the third meeting of the Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities Purpose of February 24th Public Hearing The purpose of the public hearing is for the Commission to receive information from its stakeholders on issues pertaining to accessible instructional materials in postsecondary education. The public hearing session will address issues related to law, technology, the market model, and low-incidence/high-cost materials. Additionally, the public hearing will focus on individual experiences related to accessible instructional materials in postsecondary education. Process for Public Testimony Participants who wish to comment at the public hearing should register in advance by calling Janet Gronneberg at CAST at 781-245-2212 (voice) or 781-245-9320 (TTY) or jgronneberg at cast.org by 5:00 PM EST February 18, 2011. When pre-registering, please provide the following information: Name, organizational affiliation, title, email address and phone number, additionally, please indicate whether you plan to offer comments in person or remotely. If you intend to testify by telephone, please provide us with a phone number where you can be reached between 4:30 and 9:00 PM on Feb. 24th. See the guidelines below for specific information regarding in-person and remote testimony. Please note that the Commission is eager to hear from the public and has scheduled time at each of the upcoming Commission meetings for public comment. Priority will be given in the following order to those wishing to testify: In-person testimony, pre-registered Remote testimony, pre-registered Walk-in, unregistered NOTE: if the number of registrations for in-person on-site testimony reaches the maximum number of testimony periods available (approximately 22), the option for both remote and walk-in testimony will be withdrawn. Individuals who have pre-registered for remote testimony by 5:00 PM EST February 18, 2011 will be notified no later than 5:00 PM EST Tuesday, February 23, 2011 if remote testimony periods are no longer available. As noted in the Federal Register notice February 9, 2011 (Volume 76, Number 27), Members of the public who would like to offer comments may submit written comments to AIMCommission at ed.gov or by mail to Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities, 550 12th St., SW., Room PCP-5113, Washington, DC 20202. Public Testimony Guidelines Comments will be limited to five minutes per person or organization, but participants have the option of supplementing their testimony with written statements that will be part of the official public record. The Commission requests that organizations with multiple participants designate no more than one individual to speak on its behalf. The Commission strongly encourages participants to submit their comments electronically in advance of the public hearing to jgronneberg at cast.org. If PowerPoint slides will be used during testimony they MUST be submitted to jgronneberg at cast.org by February 21, 2011. In-person testimony, pre-registered Participants who register by February 18, 2011 should report to the hearing registration desk at Board Room 4, Hyatt Regency Jacksonville Riverfront at 4:00 PM on Thursday, February 24, 2011. Each five-minute testimony will be scheduled on a first-come, first-serve basis beginning at 4:30 PM. Remote testimony, pre-registered Members of the public may offer a five-minute testimony remotely via telephone for any available testimony period on February 24. Participants wishing to testify remotely must pre-register by calling Janet Gronneberg at CAST at 781-245-2212 (voice) or 781-245-9320 (TTY) or emailing jgronneberg at cast.org by 5:00 PM EST February 18, 2011. Remote testimony requests will be placed in the testimony queue in the order of pre-registration received. Following the scheduling of pre-registered individuals on-site on February 24, 2011, pre-registered individuals wishing to testify remotely will be notified by telephone and email beginning at 4:30 PM of their assigned testimony time period, and to be available within a 30-minute window. Confirmation of an available time slot will be sent via email and voice to the contact email address and telephone number provided during pre-registration. Walk-in, unregistered A period of time will be reserved for individuals who choose to not register in advance. A sign-up sheet will be available at the hotel (Board Room 4). Participation in the hearing for unregistered participants will be subject to availability. Additional Information Individuals who will need accommodations for a disability in order to attend the public hearing (e.g., interpreting services, assistive listening devices, or material in alternative format) should notify Elizabeth Shook at (202) 245-7642, or Mary O'Malley momalley at cast.org no later than February 18, 2011. We will make every attempt to meet requests for accommodations after this date, but cannot guarantee their availability. The meeting site is accessible to individuals with disabilities. -- Gabriel M. Cazares, 2nd Vice President Texas Association of Blind Students (TABS) www.nfb-texas.org/tabs.html Phone: 713-581-0619 "Of course, loyalty to one's friends is an important principle. But so is writing what you believe--otherwise, why bother to write at all?"-Arianna Huffington From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 17:43:10 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:43:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: References: <20110217143616.23224.59327@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: To all, First, I'm on this list. I'm not consciously avoiding anything blindness-related. And, yes, it's normal and ok for blind people to sometimes talk about blindness. I get that. (heck, I feel perfectly fine talking about blindness on this list and with my blind friends) But it becomes a real problem when you never, or hardly ever, talk about anything else. I have friends who, when I'm with them, only talk about blindness, only talk about assistive technology, braille, canes, NFB/ACB philosophy, educating sighted people about blindness, etc. It's not that those things are bad to talk about...they're necessary and good and important. But it's equally as important, maybe even more so, to become well-rounded individuals who can relate and participate in the sighted world on terms of equality. And most of my blind friends, unfortunately, do not have that balance. I can relate perfectly to what Jerardo is saying. Best, Kirt On 2/17/11, Darian Smith wrote: > On the topic of blind people in blindness-related conversation: I > believe that's not at all uncommon or unreasonable. Ifyou are around > blind friends and something blindness related comes up, then it comes > up. It's normal for any ethnic group to have conversations of or > relating to their culture or ethnicity. Can those conversations run > a little long and be overkill, sure they can. And while I could > guess that we've gotten caught up in a little more "blindness talk" > than we might expect every once in a while, I am not too sure how this > translates into how we deal with the sighted community's perceptions > of us, yet respect where we as a person/people are at the time? We > may know the truth about blindness, but does that mmean that we need > to walk around with nfb litriture in our back pack ready to wirl > around with something in hand in responce to "why do you use that > stick?" or, "you must be really good at music"? Doesn't that > underscore why we are different more than equil? > just some thoughts. > > Respectfully, > Darian > > On 2/17/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: >> Bridgit, >> Great essay. I really enjoyed reading it. I think it definitely echos >> the way we all feel. >> >> Bernadetta P. >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 17:32:53 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:32:53 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: Hi all, Please spread the word. Appoligies for the late-breaking nature of this. Hello NABS, It’s amazing how much stress we go through on a daily basis. Between homework, note taking, tests, family, significant others where applicable, etc, the much-needed summer break seems so far away, but in fact, will be here before we know it. And thinking about it seems pointless because of what’s already on your plate. But what if you could have it taken care of and not have to think about it till you’re free, free, free? Perhaps your lovely membership committee can assist you in making your plans with this month’s conference call, in which we’ll be talking about the 2011 Youth Slam!, Treva Olivero will be on hand to talk about and answer questions about this exciting 5-day STEM academy for blind high school students taking place in Maryland this July. Who: The Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students What: Conference call on the 2011 Youth Slam When: Sunday, February 20, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by access code 257963 Why: Because even if you’re not into science, technology, engineering or math, there’s something for everyone at Youth Slam! Please spread the word and join us for an exciting call about a summer to look forward to (beach attire optional.) See you there. NABS Membership Committee -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Summer_conference_call_(1).doc Type: application/msword Size: 23040 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 17:49:43 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:49:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math In-Reply-To: <009901cbcebd$1f930260$7201a8c0@server> References: <009901cbcebd$1f930260$7201a8c0@server> Message-ID: Denis and Greg, Thank you. I knew you would be out there, and I knew you didn't have to be a "super blind" hero to do higher-level math but, unfortunately, a lot of blind people I know don't even graduate college so that kind of limits the sample size, you know? And yeah- I totally forgot about dr. Nemeth. My bad. :) And it's not so much about an argument...it's more about education. We weren't really at each other's throats...my roommate was just curious, and I couldn't really give him a good answer. So thanks for helping me out. Best, Kirt On 2/17/11, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Curt, > Many totally blind people have taken advanced math classes and have actually > obtained PhD's in math. I went to engineering school and took calculus, > differential equations, partial differential equations, and linear algebra. > I had all of my books in Braille, and speaking only for myself, I could not > have successfully taken these classes without Braille books. Hope that > helps. > Best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirt Manwaring" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:12 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math > > >> Dear Nabs-ers, >> I have a question for all y'all that came up in conversation with my >> roommate just a minute ago. Have any of you taken highly advanced >> college math classes? (I'm not talking general-ed math, I'm talking >> like calculus and linear algebra and classes like that) Because I'm >> sure it's possible, I'm sure it's been done, but I don't know any >> blind person who's taken math classes at that high of a level. I'm >> sure some of you have, so please let me know so I can tell my roommate >> it can be done. (also...if you happen to be totally blind, that'll >> help my case a lot, just sayin...:)) >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Feb 17 17:51:21 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 11:51:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out latest blog Message-ID: Hey, My latest blog for Live Well Nebraska has posted. Check it out at http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2011/02/17/one-more-challenge-driving- while-blind/ Bridgit P From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 17:39:51 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 09:39:51 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Next Nabs conference call: All about Youth Slam 2011 Message-ID: On 2/17/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi all, > Please spread the word. Appoligies for the late-breaking nature of this. > > Hello NABS, > > It’s amazing how much stress we go through on a daily basis. Between > homework, note taking, tests, family, significant others where > applicable, etc, the much-needed summer break seems so far away, but > in fact, will be here before we know it. And thinking about it seems > pointless because of what’s already on your plate. But what if you > could have it taken care of and not have to think about it till you’re > free, free, free? Perhaps your lovely membership committee can assist > you in making your plans with this month’s conference call, in which > we’ll be talking about the 2011 Youth Slam!, Treva Olivero will be on > hand to talk about and answer questions about this exciting 5-day STEM > academy for blind high school students taking place in Maryland this > July. > > Who: The Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students > What: Conference call on the 2011 Youth Slam > When: Sunday, February 20, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET > Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by access code 257963 > Why: Because even if you’re not into science, technology, engineering > or math, there’s something for everyone at Youth Slam! > > Please spread the word and join us for an exciting call about a summer > to look forward to (beach attire optional.) See you there. > > NABS Membership Committee > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." Appoligies for the mis -labeling... here is the announcement with an actual title! *smile* From steve.jacobson at visi.com Thu Feb 17 18:00:32 2011 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:00:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math In-Reply-To: <009901cbcebd$1f930260$7201a8c0@server> Message-ID: Curt, To add to what Dennis said, I also majored in math, and as you may know, the creator of the Nemeth code was a math professor and is blind. We even have a BlindMath list on NFBNET. There are challenges, of course, but blind persons interested in math should go for it. Best regards, Steve Jacobson and On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 08:09:57 -0800, Dennis Clark wrote: >Hello Curt, >Many totally blind people have taken advanced math classes and have actually >obtained PhD's in math. I went to engineering school and took calculus, >differential equations, partial differential equations, and linear algebra. >I had all of my books in Braille, and speaking only for myself, I could not >have successfully taken these classes without Braille books. Hope that >helps. >Best, >Dennis >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kirt Manwaring" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:12 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math >> Dear Nabs-ers, >> I have a question for all y'all that came up in conversation with my >> roommate just a minute ago. Have any of you taken highly advanced >> college math classes? (I'm not talking general-ed math, I'm talking >> like calculus and linear algebra and classes like that) Because I'm >> sure it's possible, I'm sure it's been done, but I don't know any >> blind person who's taken math classes at that high of a level. I'm >> sure some of you have, so please let me know so I can tell my roommate >> it can be done. (also...if you happen to be totally blind, that'll >> help my case a lot, just sayin...:)) >> Best, >> Kirt >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu Feb 17 21:49:08 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:49:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <8sKE1g00B2PutTY05sKFG4@netzero.net> References: <8sKE1g00B2PutTY05sKFG4@netzero.net> Message-ID: <3914CE45-6C8E-4C3F-BB29-BD131A963EF3@mac.com> So very true. I remember being in the Mall Of America, the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a rolercoaster, and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. Councelors fought it out and won that one though, but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that is, said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used as a weapon." Jorge On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: > Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people just don't understand about blindness. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Bridgit Pollpeter > To: > Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > >> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your > blindness-- >> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments > as >> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, > to the >> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to > answer >> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the > discussion. > >> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, > in a >> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other > interest. Ask >> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. > >> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I > think. >> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not > enjoy >> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small > section >> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* > >> The Event of the Century > >> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's > building >> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do > the same >> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill > air. >> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, > and we >> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are > seven >> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be > blind. > >> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating > the >> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it > with our >> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I > call out, >> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes > from all >> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way > to the >> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the > cashier >> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our > friends >> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. > >> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into > a cup >> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the > soda >> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine > which >> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take > another step, >> a stranger approaches me. > >> "Can I help you?" she asks. > >> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step > around the >> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I > know >> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >> island. > >> "It's this way," she says . > >> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." > >> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an > open >> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. > >> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I > follow >> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle > happening >> before her eyes. > >> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra > says >> as I approach the table. > >> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all > use to >> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have > left >> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has > always >> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and > outdated >> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism > fresh. > >> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of > being >> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I > very >> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. > I >> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability > to solve >> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, > but >> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me > exceptional. > >> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but > because >> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as > a blind >> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children > because they >> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a > perceived >> reality. > >> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew > and >> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological > clock >> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I > talk >> endlessly about them. > >> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is > five and >> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. > Kensley is >> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and > then, she >> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and > full of >> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have > watched them >> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them > I see >> where the future can lie. > >> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when > people >> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. > >> "How could you watch children?" > >> "Isn't it difficult?" > >> "Can blind people do that?" > >> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I > respond >> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. > >> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a > seven-year-old, >> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be > dead. > > >> I wonder if people think about what they say. > >> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to > them. My >> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We > think >> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults > can >> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. > >> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for > this, >> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all > day long. > > >> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get > Caiden to >> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too > many >> video games you will go blind." > >> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. > Look >> at Aunt Bridgy." > >> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and > nieces. >> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the > stereotypes >> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through > these >> children, I know the effect is lasting. > >> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed > because >> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my > house, she >> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of > print. >> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on > them. >> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to > "be." > >> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe > what >> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my > nephew and >> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after > blindness. >> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. > My >> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view > other >> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and > there is >> no thought of limitations. > >> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not > respond to >> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly > adjusted to >> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting > to be >> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When > they >> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. > Kensley >> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, > I am >> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! > >> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I > know >> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their > location >> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand > that >> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with > me. >> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I > can care >> for them. > >> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The > world >> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys > into the >> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, > but, in >> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. > >> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind > and >> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted > as >> though I had no clue. > >> "What do you mean?" I asked. > >> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." > >> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." > >> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." > >> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps > of the >> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to > capture a >> blind person out of their natural environment. > >> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. > "Wow, it's >> snowing again?" > >> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be > your >> sixth sense." > >> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" > >> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I > can no >> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I > try to >> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. > >> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the > street. >> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a > person >> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How > many >> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. > >> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip > across. >> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the > right-away) >> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the > green, I >> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the > dot. >> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of > boredom. > >> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on > Center >> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into > oncoming >> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this > Crazy Carla >> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I > had no >> choice but to keep truckin'. > >> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and > shouted, >> "What the hell are you doing?" > >> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. > >> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have > the >> right-away. Shit!" > >> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out > on >> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. > >> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives > you the >> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" > >> "Can you make it home from here?" > >> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? > >> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting > around >> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" > >> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" > >> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" > Grabbing >> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. > >> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the > perceptions >> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was > safely and >> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed > incapable by >> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, > "Hmm, this >> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they > must be >> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the > blind girl >> standing alone and do not get past that thought. > >> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people > enjoying each >> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered > the >> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to > thirty-five, >> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted > companion. > >> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any > other >> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about > what to >> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing > on the >> television. > >> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. > >> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." > >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >> From: Darian Smith > Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >> Message-ID: >> > m >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> Hi all, >> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can > translate >> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be > considered as >> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people > don't >> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people > deal >> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing > you want >> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were > on, and >> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally > didn't >> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person > trying to >> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not > require >> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly > annoyed >> and/or taking >> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk > about >> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil > importance of >> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How > does >> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life > and >> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? > >> Darian > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > 5369%40netzero.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From jbahm at pcdesk.net Thu Feb 17 23:21:07 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:21:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced college math In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D5DAD63.6000601@pcdesk.net> Kirt, I have taken, and am currently taking advanced math classes. I did Calculus in the past, and am currently doing Linear Algebra and Discrete Math. As for the total thing, I do have a small amount of useable vision. But functionally, I'm a total. I have to use alternative techniques and all for classes. Hope this helps. Joe From dkent5817 at att.net Fri Feb 18 02:52:21 2011 From: dkent5817 at att.net (Deborah Kent Stein) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 20:52:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Information to distribute about Non 24 Hour Sleep Wake Disorder Message-ID: We have been asked to circulate the following: Dave Again, Thank you for offering to distribute information about the study we are conducting that is testing an experimental treatment for individuals who are blind and suffer from a sleep disorder known as Non-24 Hour Sleep Wake Disorder in the Chicago area. I have copied and pasted the announcement below and attached it and the information packet about this disorder to this email. You can also read more about the drug on clinical trials.gov. The link to this website is as follows: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01163032?term=vanda&rank=2. A few things to note about this trial: * The site will arrange and cover the cost for all transportation to and from the site for participants and guardians. Any other necessary travel arrangements (ie. guide dogs, hotel) will be accommodated. * There is compensation for participation in the trial. * Please note that it is possible that some people may report having some light perception, but also have sleep issues (e.g. trouble falling asleep, trouble staying asleep, daytime sleepiness, etc.); we would encourage these people to call the 1800 number on the announcement, as it is still possible that they could qualify for the trial. We really appreciate you helping us spread the word about this clinical trial. If you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to contact me by phone at 240-599-4517 by email at adrienne.annison at vandapharma.com. Thank you so much for all your help. STUDY ANNOUNCEMENT: Clinical Research Study Recruitment Blind individuals with no light perception needed. A local doctor is conducting research to evaluate a new investigational treatment for insomnia and daytime sleepiness in individuals who are totally blind. Individuals may qualify who: • are between 18 and 75 years of age • are blind with no light perception • have trouble sleeping at night or experience daytime sleepiness Participants will be compensated for their time and effort and will receive study medication and study-related medical evaluation at no cost. For more information Call 1-888-389-7033 M-F 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM ET Adrienne Annison Executive Assistant Vanda Pharmaceuticals 9605 Medical Center Drive – Suite 300 – Rockville, MD 20850 Adrienne.annison at vandapharma.com 240-599-4517 From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 18 04:01:13 2011 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 20:01:13 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Emailing: Alert VSA Arts wants to display your artwork at the JFK Center in Washington Message-ID: <8F432979EC0148549FFF20FEFB07310A@windows4c0ed96> _____ From: bigdaddylou63 at sbcglobal.net [mailto:bigdaddylou63 at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:48 PM To: V Nork Subject: Emailing: Alert VSA Arts wants to display your artwork at the JFK Center in Washington Having trouble viewing this email? Click here An informational alert prepared by Fifth Freedom Information courtesy of the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD) and VSA Arts (Very Special Arts) VSA Arts Call for Art from Artists with Disabilities Enter to have your work on display at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts VSA Arts (Very Special Arts) is calling for submissions from artists with disabilities for an upcoming exhibition, "Shift". In this exhibition, "Every life contains moments of change. Shift seeks to investigate those moments that alter the direction of a person's path and create a new reality." Artists with disabilities age 18 or older are eligible to enter. Artworks can be in a variety of media, including but not limited to: * Painting * Sculpture * Photography * Jewelry * Textiles * Glass * Digital art * Installation * Video & Film Selected work will be presented at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, D.C., June 3-30, 2011. For complete rules and to enter, visit http://fifthfreedom.org/u/6u . If clicking the link does not work, copy and paste the link into your browser's address bar. Doug Schmidt Act Team Coordinator The Fifth Freedom Network 4606-C E. State Blvd., Suite 102 Fort Wayne, IN 46815 act at fifthfreedom.org www.fifthfreedom.org Forward email This email was sent to bigdaddylou63 at sbcglobal.net by act at fifthfreedom.org | Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe T | Privacy Policy . Fifth Freedom | 4606-C E. State Blvd. | Suite 102 | Fort Wayne | IN | 46815 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 433 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.gif Type: image/gif Size: 43 bytes Desc: not available URL: From agrima at nbp.org Fri Feb 18 20:48:39 2011 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:48:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NBP needs Android users! Message-ID: <007c01cbcfad$38e86fc0$aab94f40$@org> Hello! National Braille Press is looking for Android users to test some applications we're developing for our PDA. If you have interest in helping us please contact Lindsay Broyhill at lbroyhill at nbp.org and we will get you the information needed. Thanks for your help. Thanks, Tony Grima VP/Braille Publications National Braille Press From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 01:52:13 2011 From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 20:52:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National, Albert Yoo has invited you to open a Gmail account Message-ID: I've been using Gmail and thought you might like to try it out. Here's an invitation to create an account. You're Invited to Gmail! Albert Yoo has invited you to open a Gmail account. Gmail is Google's free email service, built on the idea that email can be intuitive, efficient, and fun. Gmail has: *Less spam* Keep unwanted messages out of your inbox with Google's innovative technology. *Lots of space* Enough storage so that you'll never have to delete another message. *Built-in chat* Text or video chat with Albert Yoo and other friends in real time. *Mobile access* Get your email anywhere with Gmail on your mobile phone. You can even import your contacts and email from Yahoo!, Hotmail, AOL, or any other web mail or POP accounts. Once you create your account, Albert Yoo will be notified of your new Gmail address so you can stay in touch. Learn moreor get started ! Sign up Google Inc. | 1600 Ampitheatre Parkway | Mountain View, California 94043 From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 19 03:23:29 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:23:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] New Brailler Message-ID: Hi, it's Joshua Lester. Was anyone on this list at the convention, in Dallas, last year? If so, do you remember Dave Pilloshire? He was the one advertising his new Brailler. It was the kind of Brailler that you could use to put your work in Braille, (like your standard Perkins,) but you could hook it up to your computer, and the Brailler would have your work put up in a Word document, so you could print it right off of the computer, and give it to a teacher. Well, he told me that it would sell for around $1500. That was the last I've heard of him. Does anyone know anything about this new Brailler, and when it will be put on the market? If so, please E-mail me and others who would be interested. Thanks, Joshua From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 17:01:13 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:01:13 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Don't forget to "slam" your weekend with this month's nabs conference call! (Tomorrow) Message-ID: Hello NABS, It’s amazing how much stress we go through on a daily basis. Between homework, note taking, tests, family, significant others where applicable, etc, the much-needed summer break seems so far away, but in fact, will be here before we know it. And thinking about it seems pointless because of what’s already on your plate. But what if you could have it taken care of and not have to think about it till you’re free, free, free? Perhaps your lovely membership committee can assist you in making your plans with this month’s conference call, in which we’ll be talking about the 2011 Youth Slam!, Treva Olivero will be on hand to talk about and answer questions about this exciting 5-day STEM academy for blind high school students taking place in Maryland this July. Who: The Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students What: Conference call on the 2011 Youth Slam When: Sunday, February 20, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by access code 257963 Why: Because even if you’re not into science, technology, engineering or math, there’s something for everyone at Youth Slam! Please spread the word and join us for an exciting call about a summer to look forward to (beach attire optional.) See you there. NABS Membership Committee -- Darian Smith Board member National Association of Blind Students From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 18:04:00 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:04:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Don't forget to "slam" your weekend with this month's nabs conference call! (Tomorrow) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: JJ could you contact me off list with info for a temporary stream? On 2/19/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hello NABS, > > It’s amazing how much stress we go through on a daily basis. Between > homework, note taking, tests, family, significant others where > applicable, etc, the much-needed summer break seems so far away, but > in fact, will be here before we know it. And thinking about it seems > pointless because of what’s already on your plate. But what if you > could have it taken care of and not have to think about it till you’re > free, free, free? Perhaps your lovely membership committee can assist > you in making your plans with this month’s conference call, in which > we’ll be talking about the 2011 Youth Slam!, Treva Olivero will be on > hand to talk about and answer questions about this exciting 5-day STEM > academy for blind high school students taking place in Maryland this > July. > > Who: The Membership Committee of the National Association of Blind Students > What: Conference call on the 2011 Youth Slam > When: Sunday, February 20, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET > Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by access code 257963 > Why: Because even if you’re not into science, technology, engineering > or math, there’s something for everyone at Youth Slam! > > Please spread the word and join us for an exciting call about a summer > to look forward to (beach attire optional.) See you there. > > NABS Membership Committee > > > -- > Darian Smith > Board member > National Association of Blind Students > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 18:43:25 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:43:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? Message-ID: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> Hi all, I haven’t heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? Anjelina From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 18:56:51 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:56:51 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> Message-ID: hey Listers, Would it be useful to you if at some point during the up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on Washington Legislative Seminar? Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! Darian Smith Board Member/Membership Chair National Association of Blind Students. On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: > Hi all, > I haven’t heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? > > Anjelina > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From jkenn337 at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 19:19:19 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:19:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler Message-ID: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> Hi I am interested in this new brailler also. It would be nice to have a basic braille printer, size of a perkins brailler that takes regular braille paper that I could hook to my computer and braille stuff. An inexpensive braille embosser that does not take tractor-feed paper that would be excellent. Oh and in case you are interested there is now a braille display that costs under $1000. It is called the BraillePen12 sold by arroga technologies. it has 12 cells, works with all screen readers and IPhone. its $995. Josh From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 19 19:26:59 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:26:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler In-Reply-To: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> References: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dave Pilloshire is the guy, that has invented this Brailler. I haven't heard anything, since July. Josh, do you know where I can get a good deal on a Pac Mate? That will have to do, until I find out more about this Brailler. Thanks, Joshua On 2/19/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I am interested in this new brailler also. It would be nice to have a > basic braille printer, size of a perkins brailler that takes regular > braille paper that I could hook to my computer and braille stuff. An > inexpensive braille embosser that does not take tractor-feed paper that > would be excellent. Oh and in case you are interested there is now a > braille display that costs under $1000. It is called the BraillePen12 > sold by arroga technologies. it has 12 cells, works with all screen > readers and IPhone. its $995. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 19:32:19 2011 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:32:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> Message-ID: <694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> I think that it would be useful Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Darian Smith wrote: > hey Listers, > Would it be useful to you if at some point during the > up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on > Washington Legislative Seminar? > Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! > Darian Smith > Board Member/Membership Chair > National Association of Blind Students. > > > On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: >> Hi all, >> I haven’t heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? >> >> Anjelina >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 20:45:26 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:45:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: <694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> <694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> Message-ID: I can pop in to talk about the NABS meeting and give a summary of the three issues we discussed with our legislators. I was not able to stay through the end of the seminar so I am not sure how much progress we made legislatively, so it'd be great if someone who was there through the end could comment as well. Arielle On 2/19/11, Koby Cox wrote: > I think that it would be useful > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Darian Smith wrote: > >> hey Listers, >> Would it be useful to you if at some point during the >> up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on >> Washington Legislative Seminar? >> Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! >> Darian Smith >> Board Member/Membership Chair >> National Association of Blind Students. >> >> >> On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I haven’t heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? >>> >>> Anjelina >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >> But only you can have the drive." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From kobycox at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 21:15:54 2011 From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:15:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> <694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> Message-ID: arielle did you get my previous email that I sent you? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can pop in to talk about the NABS meeting and give a summary of the > three issues we discussed with our legislators. I was not able to stay > through the end of the seminar so I am not sure how much progress we > made legislatively, so it'd be great if someone who was there through > the end could comment as well. > > Arielle > > On 2/19/11, Koby Cox wrote: >> I think that it would be useful >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >> >>> hey Listers, >>> Would it be useful to you if at some point during the >>> up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on >>> Washington Legislative Seminar? >>> Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! >>> Darian Smith >>> Board Member/Membership Chair >>> National Association of Blind Students. >>> >>> >>> On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I haven’t heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Darian Smith >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>> >>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >>> But only you can have the drive." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Feb 19 21:37:59 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:37:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler In-Reply-To: References: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <301B8B90AA0042DBBD761EE82AFD2392@OwnerPC> Sounds like a good invention. Does Dave have a website or phone number where we can contact him for more info? -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 2:26 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re new brailler Dave Pilloshire is the guy, that has invented this Brailler. I haven't heard anything, since July. Josh, do you know where I can get a good deal on a Pac Mate? That will have to do, until I find out more about this Brailler. Thanks, Joshua On 2/19/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > Hi > > I am interested in this new brailler also. It would be nice to have a > basic braille printer, size of a perkins brailler that takes regular > braille paper that I could hook to my computer and braille stuff. An > inexpensive braille embosser that does not take tractor-feed paper that > would be excellent. Oh and in case you are interested there is now a > braille display that costs under $1000. It is called the BraillePen12 > sold by arroga technologies. it has 12 cells, works with all screen > readers and IPhone. its $995. > > Josh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 19 21:41:26 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:41:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler In-Reply-To: <301B8B90AA0042DBBD761EE82AFD2392@OwnerPC> References: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> <301B8B90AA0042DBBD761EE82AFD2392@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I don't know, but I'll Google it, and post. Blessings, Joshua On 2/19/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Sounds like a good invention. Does Dave have a website or phone number where > we can contact him for more info? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joshua Lester > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 2:26 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re new brailler > > Dave Pilloshire is the guy, that has invented this Brailler. I haven't > heard anything, since July. Josh, do you know where I can get a good > deal on a Pac Mate? That will have to do, until I find out more about > this Brailler. Thanks, Joshua > > On 2/19/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> Hi >> >> I am interested in this new brailler also. It would be nice to have a >> basic braille printer, size of a perkins brailler that takes regular >> braille paper that I could hook to my computer and braille stuff. An >> inexpensive braille embosser that does not take tractor-feed paper that >> would be excellent. Oh and in case you are interested there is now a >> braille display that costs under $1000. It is called the BraillePen12 >> sold by arroga technologies. it has 12 cells, works with all screen >> readers and IPhone. its $995. >> >> Josh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 19 21:46:03 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:46:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler In-Reply-To: References: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> <301B8B90AA0042DBBD761EE82AFD2392@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Well, I Googled it, but I didn't find anything. Blessings, Joshua On 2/19/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > I don't know, but I'll Google it, and post. Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/19/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Sounds like a good invention. Does Dave have a website or phone number >> where >> we can contact him for more info? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joshua Lester >> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 2:26 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re new brailler >> >> Dave Pilloshire is the guy, that has invented this Brailler. I haven't >> heard anything, since July. Josh, do you know where I can get a good >> deal on a Pac Mate? That will have to do, until I find out more about >> this Brailler. Thanks, Joshua >> >> On 2/19/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> I am interested in this new brailler also. It would be nice to have a >>> basic braille printer, size of a perkins brailler that takes regular >>> braille paper that I could hook to my computer and braille stuff. An >>> inexpensive braille embosser that does not take tractor-feed paper that >>> would be excellent. Oh and in case you are interested there is now a >>> braille display that costs under $1000. It is called the BraillePen12 >>> sold by arroga technologies. it has 12 cells, works with all screen >>> readers and IPhone. its $995. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From trising at sbcglobal.net Sat Feb 19 21:49:36 2011 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:49:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler References: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8185A48F7DE24E8C85B5B2305045DB35@user6389c7a3c9> I am selling a Pack Mate Omni qx version 6.5 on ebay the item number is 320656051434 The QX can be setup so that you can use sdf and jkl as Braille keys. Nick -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1527 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sat Feb 19 21:49:23 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (anjelinac26 at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 16:49:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> <694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> Message-ID: What were the main issues discussed? I'm not sure if I'll be able to make the conference call. Thanks Anjelina Sent from my iPhone On Feb 19, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > I can pop in to talk about the NABS meeting and give a summary of the > three issues we discussed with our legislators. I was not able to stay > through the end of the seminar so I am not sure how much progress we > made legislatively, so it'd be great if someone who was there through > the end could comment as well. > > Arielle > > On 2/19/11, Koby Cox wrote: >> I think that it would be useful >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >> >>> hey Listers, >>> Would it be useful to you if at some point during the >>> up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on >>> Washington Legislative Seminar? >>> Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! >>> Darian Smith >>> Board Member/Membership Chair >>> National Association of Blind Students. >>> >>> >>> On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I haven’t heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? >>>> >>>> Anjelina >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Darian Smith >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>> >>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >>> But only you can have the drive." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com From brownbears at mchsi.com Sun Feb 20 03:07:02 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 21:07:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Compression Software Message-ID: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> Does anyone know of free compression software? Miranda From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 20 03:38:45 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 21:38:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Compression Software In-Reply-To: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> References: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> Message-ID: What's Compression sofftware? I've never heard of it. Blessings, joshua On 2/19/11, Miranda Morse wrote: > Does anyone know of free compression software? > Miranda > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Feb 20 03:50:35 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:50:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Compression Software In-Reply-To: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> References: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> Message-ID: Levelator. Google it. Jorge On Feb 19, 2011, at 10:07 PM, Miranda Morse wrote: > Does anyone know of free compression software? > Miranda > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From brownbears at mchsi.com Sun Feb 20 04:07:43 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:07:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Compression Software References: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> Message-ID: <01B44E2617B047FCBE41B9080954D0BA@MIRANDA> I think that is what it is called. It is software to compress files to .zip files and software that will unzip compressed files. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Compression Software > What's Compression sofftware? I've never heard of it. Blessings, joshua > > On 2/19/11, Miranda Morse wrote: >> Does anyone know of free compression software? >> Miranda >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brownbears%40mchsi.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun Feb 20 04:18:00 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:18:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler In-Reply-To: References: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> <301B8B90AA0042DBBD761EE82AFD2392@OwnerPC> Message-ID: His name is David Pillischer. Dave >Well, I Googled it, but I didn't find anything. Blessings, Joshua > >On 2/19/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > > I don't know, but I'll Google it, and post. Blessings, Joshua > > > > On 2/19/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> Sounds like a good invention. Does Dave have a website or phone number > >> where > >> we can contact him for more info? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Joshua Lester > >> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 2:26 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re new brailler > >> > >> Dave Pilloshire is the guy, that has invented this Brailler. I haven't > >> heard anything, since July. Josh, do you know where I can get a good > >> deal on a Pac Mate? That will have to do, until I find out more about > >> this Brailler. Thanks, Joshua > >> > >> On 2/19/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: > >>> Hi > >>> > >>> I am interested in this new brailler also. It would be nice to have a > >>> basic braille printer, size of a perkins brailler that takes regular > >>> braille paper that I could hook to my computer and braille stuff. An > >>> inexpensive braille embosser that does not take tractor-feed paper that > >>> would be excellent. Oh and in case you are interested there is now a > >>> braille display that costs under $1000. It is called the BraillePen12 > >>> sold by arroga technologies. it has 12 cells, works with all screen > >>> readers and IPhone. its $995. > >>> > >>> Josh From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 20 04:23:17 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:23:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler In-Reply-To: References: <4D6017B7.3050203@gmail.com> <301B8B90AA0042DBBD761EE82AFD2392@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Mr. Andrews, thanks for the correct spelling. I wasn't sure about it, so I took a guess. Blessings, Joshua On 2/19/11, David Andrews wrote: > His name is David Pillischer. > > Dave > > >>Well, I Googled it, but I didn't find anything. Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 2/19/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> > I don't know, but I'll Google it, and post. Blessings, Joshua >> > >> > On 2/19/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> >> Sounds like a good invention. Does Dave have a website or phone number >> >> where >> >> we can contact him for more info? >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Joshua Lester >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 2:26 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re new brailler >> >> >> >> Dave Pilloshire is the guy, that has invented this Brailler. I haven't >> >> heard anything, since July. Josh, do you know where I can get a good >> >> deal on a Pac Mate? That will have to do, until I find out more about >> >> this Brailler. Thanks, Joshua >> >> >> >> On 2/19/11, Josh Kennedy wrote: >> >>> Hi >> >>> >> >>> I am interested in this new brailler also. It would be nice to have a >> >>> basic braille printer, size of a perkins brailler that takes regular >> >>> braille paper that I could hook to my computer and braille stuff. An >> >>> inexpensive braille embosser that does not take tractor-feed paper >> >>> that >> >>> would be excellent. Oh and in case you are interested there is now a >> >>> braille display that costs under $1000. It is called the BraillePen12 >> >>> sold by arroga technologies. it has 12 cells, works with all screen >> >>> readers and IPhone. its $995. >> >>> >> >>> Josh > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 20 04:26:13 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 22:26:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Compression Software In-Reply-To: <01B44E2617B047FCBE41B9080954D0BA@MIRANDA> References: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> <01B44E2617B047FCBE41B9080954D0BA@MIRANDA> Message-ID: That's all new to me. Thanks. Blessings, Joshua On 2/19/11, Miranda Morse wrote: > I think that is what it is called. It is software to compress files to .zip > files and software that will unzip compressed files. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Compression Software > > >> What's Compression sofftware? I've never heard of it. Blessings, joshua >> >> On 2/19/11, Miranda Morse wrote: >>> Does anyone know of free compression software? >>> Miranda >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brownbears%40mchsi.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From danedunham26 at gmail.com Sun Feb 20 17:57:12 2011 From: danedunham26 at gmail.com (Dane Dunham) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 11:57:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Compression Software References: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> <01B44E2617B047FCBE41B9080954D0BA@MIRANDA> Message-ID: <005601cbd127$9bfbc7d0$0501a8c0@usd232.org> Another option is 7zip from http://www.7-zip.org/. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miranda Morse" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Compression Software >I think that is what it is called. It is software to compress files to .zip >files and software that will unzip compressed files. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joshua Lester" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Compression Software > > >> What's Compression sofftware? I've never heard of it. Blessings, joshua >> >> On 2/19/11, Miranda Morse wrote: >>> Does anyone know of free compression software? >>> Miranda >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brownbears%40mchsi.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com > From bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net Sun Feb 20 23:18:24 2011 From: bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net (Bernadetta Pracon) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:18:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler Message-ID: <20110220231824.12522.16709@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Hi Joshua: My name is Bernadetta,and I'm on the NABS-L list that you're subscribed to. I noticed that a few days ago you mentioned you might be interested in buying a pac mate for a good price... If you wouldn't mind a used one, I might be willing to sell mine. Very lightly used, I just bought a brand new leather case for it, and it's got a wireless card. I don't really need it anymore; I thought I'd use it more often but I only ever used it as an appointment book. It's the QT model with the twenty cell braille display, by the way. If you're interested, let me know, and we can work out a reasonable price. If you need any more information on it, just ask. All Best Bernadetta. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From aaatlantic at aol.com Sun Feb 20 23:46:52 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:46:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] roommate Message-ID: <1112A7F4-A8CE-4A59-852C-AFC24B9CC131@aol.com> hey guys I am looking for a room mate for the national convention from July secand to July 9th. my Name is Alexander Atlantic I have a guide dog and I am verymuch open it doesn't matter a female or male would work. contact info phone number 18144644247 email address aaatlantic at aol.com thanks Alex.Atlantic From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Mon Feb 21 01:10:58 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:10:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] re new brailler In-Reply-To: <20110220231824.12522.16709@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> References: <20110220231824.12522.16709@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: I'm going to try going through that Client Assistance Program first. If that doesn't work out, I'll get back to you. Blessings, Joshua On 2/20/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: > Hi Joshua: > My name is Bernadetta,and I'm on the NABS-L list that you're subscribed > to. I noticed that a few days ago you mentioned you might be interested > in buying a pac mate for a good price... If you wouldn't mind a used > one, I might be willing to sell mine. Very lightly used, I just bought > a brand new leather case for it, and it's got a wireless card. I don't > really need it anymore; I thought I'd use it more often but I only ever > used it as an appointment book. > It's the QT model with the twenty cell braille display, by the way. If > you're interested, let me know, and we can work out a reasonable price. > If you need any more information on it, just ask. > > All Best > > Bernadetta. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Feb 21 01:13:28 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 20:13:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financing Message-ID: Hi guys: Just wondering, where can you apply for the NFB financing program to attend the NFB National convention? Is it opened yet, and if so, where can I access it? Thanks, Jorge From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Feb 21 01:56:19 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 20:56:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If this will be your first national convention, then see the January edition of the Braille Monitor where directions for submitting a letter are detailed. It is pretty simple, you have to write a letter about why you think you should receive funding, and your state president has to write a letter on your behalf. Cindy On 2/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi guys: > Just wondering, > where can you apply for the NFB financing program to attend the NFB National > convention? > > Is it opened yet, and if so, where can I access it? > > Thanks, > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon Feb 21 03:11:45 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:11:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F1FA9F1-26B7-4BB4-A3AF-7A4F7E0A8E1A@mac.com> OK. Just one more question. I went to convention last year as part of Blind INc., but would be going with my parrents this time--would this still technically count as my first convention since last year it was with a training center? Thanks, Jorge On Feb 20, 2011, at 8:56 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > If this will be your first national convention, then see the January > edition of the Braille Monitor where directions for submitting a > letter are detailed. It is pretty simple, you have to write a letter > about why you think you should receive funding, and your state > president has to write a letter on your behalf. > > Cindy > > On 2/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Hi guys: >> Just wondering, >> where can you apply for the NFB financing program to attend the NFB National >> convention? >> >> Is it opened yet, and if so, where can I access it? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Feb 21 03:35:02 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 22:35:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] financing In-Reply-To: <4F1FA9F1-26B7-4BB4-A3AF-7A4F7E0A8E1A@mac.com> References: <4F1FA9F1-26B7-4BB4-A3AF-7A4F7E0A8E1A@mac.com> Message-ID: I don't think you would be eligible for the first time scholarship anymore, but reading the Braille Monitor article would probably clear that up. Sometimes states fundraise or have funding for people going to convention. You should get in touch with your state or local chapter president. Cindy On 2/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > OK. > > Just one more question. > > I went to convention last year as part of Blind INc., > but would be going with my parrents this time--would this still technically > count as my first convention since last year it was with a training center? > > Thanks, > > > Jorge > > > On Feb 20, 2011, at 8:56 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > >> If this will be your first national convention, then see the January >> edition of the Braille Monitor where directions for submitting a >> letter are detailed. It is pretty simple, you have to write a letter >> about why you think you should receive funding, and your state >> president has to write a letter on your behalf. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 2/20/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> Hi guys: >>> Just wondering, >>> where can you apply for the NFB financing program to attend the NFB >>> National >>> convention? >>> >>> Is it opened yet, and if so, where can I access it? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon Feb 21 05:25:46 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:25:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Note About The Conference Calls Message-ID: Hi All! Below is a link that when clicked will give you an explanation as to why the Nabs conference calls haven't been streamed live these last two or three months. Please take a moment to check out what is said here, as it does give an indication as to the uture of the streaming. This is something I think many will be happy with. The link is at http://twaud.io/q8R7 The archive of tonight's call is on its way. Email me off list with any questions. >From David From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon Feb 21 05:46:01 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (NabslinkAudioWebMaster) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 00:46:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download Message-ID: Greetings! This is an automatic notification to let you know that our latest conference call has been uploaded, and is now ready for you to download. Title: The Nabs Conference Call For February 2011 Description: Have you always wanted to make a difference in the life of a young blind student but didn't know how or if you could? Check out tonight's conference call, and learn how you can make a difference by joining the summer event we've come to know as Youth Slam. What is it? Who's involved? What purporse does it served? Here the answers to these and other questions on this exciting and informative call broght to you by the Nabs membership committee. You can download the show directly at: http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations/February2011Call.mp3 Alternatively you can visit the archive page at: http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations to hear some of the other calls we've done. Best regards, David Dunphy And The Nabs Membership Committee http://www.nabslinkaudio.org http://www.nabslink.org From amylsabo at comcast.net Mon Feb 21 07:53:14 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 07:53:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] A Note About The Conference Calls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <136566843.1133629.1298274794923.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello david, thanks for putting this out to the land of nabs. i just got done from listening to this broadcast you put out about the nabs conference calls and, i haven't tuned into them because of this and, of other personal issues in my life. i enjoyed and, i love the idea that you are going to interwind them into audio access radio and also the show joe ruffalo does too. joe is a excellent guy and, i have met him personally and, he is a awesome person to work with in regards to the nfb. i have listened a few of his shows and, they are very good indeed! so, that's my food for thought on this matter. thanks again for putting this out and, i will talk to you soon my dear! hugs always, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 05:25:46 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] A Note About The Conference Calls Hi All! Below is a link that when clicked will give you an explanation as to why the Nabs conference calls haven't been streamed live these last two or three months. Please take a moment to check out what is said here, as it does give an indication as to the uture of the streaming. This is something I think many will be happy with. The link is at http://twaud.io/q8R7 The archive of tonight's call is on its way. Email me off list with any questions. >From David _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Feb 22 00:00:52 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 17:00:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> <694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Angelina and all, There will be more thorough updates about the Washington Seminar published soon in the Braille Monitor and NABS publications, but I'll briefly summarize the three legislative issues we pursued this year. If I inadvertently quote the details of our proposals incorrectly, someone please correct me: (1) The technology bill of rights: We would like to introduce legislation requiring manufacturers of consumer electronics to build accessibility into their designs. This bill was introduced into the House of Representatives last year, but failed to gain co-sponsorship, so we would like to re-introduce it this year. (2) Educational standards for blind children: We would like to propose legislation setting up a commission to develop nationwide standards for the education of blind children. Currently there is no national standard, so educational goals and benchmarks are set by the individual IEP team. As many of us know from personal experience, all too often IEP teams, if dominated by people who have low expectations for blind children, end up setting goals that dumb down the quality of education the blind child receives (such as not requiring the child to be able to read or do math on grade level), or that neglect teaching of essential skills like Braille. This national standard would hold teachers of blind children accountable and ensure that we are being taught appropriate skills on the same level as our sighted peers. (3) The Americans with Disabilities Business Opportunities Act (ADBOA): This proposed legislation would enable business owners with disabilities (including blind merchants) to utilize advantages similar to those given to female and minority business owners, such as tax credits and incentives to businesses that conduct transactions with them. Arielle On 2/19/11, anjelinac26 at gmail.com wrote: > What were the main issues discussed? I'm not sure if I'll be able to make > the conference call. > Thanks > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 19, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >> I can pop in to talk about the NABS meeting and give a summary of the >> three issues we discussed with our legislators. I was not able to stay >> through the end of the seminar so I am not sure how much progress we >> made legislatively, so it'd be great if someone who was there through >> the end could comment as well. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/19/11, Koby Cox wrote: >>> I think that it would be useful >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >>> >>>> hey Listers, >>>> Would it be useful to you if at some point during the >>>> up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on >>>> Washington Legislative Seminar? >>>> Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! >>>> Darian Smith >>>> Board Member/Membership Chair >>>> National Association of Blind Students. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I haven’t heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? >>>>> >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Darian Smith >>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>>> >>>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >>>> But only you can have the drive." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Feb 22 00:31:38 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC><694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752@Rufus> A couple questions: 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the former. 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor of a national benchmark? I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate more people to venture out and start their own operations. Thanks for any information on the first two points. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 7:01 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? Hi Angelina and all, There will be more thorough updates about the Washington Seminar published soon in the Braille Monitor and NABS publications, but I'll briefly summarize the three legislative issues we pursued this year. If I inadvertently quote the details of our proposals incorrectly, someone please correct me: (1) The technology bill of rights: We would like to introduce legislation requiring manufacturers of consumer electronics to build accessibility into their designs. This bill was introduced into the House of Representatives last year, but failed to gain co-sponsorship, so we would like to re-introduce it this year. (2) Educational standards for blind children: We would like to propose legislation setting up a commission to develop nationwide standards for the education of blind children. Currently there is no national standard, so educational goals and benchmarks are set by the individual IEP team. As many of us know from personal experience, all too often IEP teams, if dominated by people who have low expectations for blind children, end up setting goals that dumb down the quality of education the blind child receives (such as not requiring the child to be able to read or do math on grade level), or that neglect teaching of essential skills like Braille. This national standard would hold teachers of blind children accountable and ensure that we are being taught appropriate skills on the same level as our sighted peers. (3) The Americans with Disabilities Business Opportunities Act (ADBOA): This proposed legislation would enable business owners with disabilities (including blind merchants) to utilize advantages similar to those given to female and minority business owners, such as tax credits and incentives to businesses that conduct transactions with them. Arielle On 2/19/11, anjelinac26 at gmail.com wrote: > What were the main issues discussed? I'm not sure if I'll be able to make > the conference call. > Thanks > > Anjelina > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 19, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >> I can pop in to talk about the NABS meeting and give a summary of the >> three issues we discussed with our legislators. I was not able to stay >> through the end of the seminar so I am not sure how much progress we >> made legislatively, so it'd be great if someone who was there through >> the end could comment as well. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/19/11, Koby Cox wrote: >>> I think that it would be useful >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >>> >>>> hey Listers, >>>> Would it be useful to you if at some point during the >>>> up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on >>>> Washington Legislative Seminar? >>>> Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! >>>> Darian Smith >>>> Board Member/Membership Chair >>>> National Association of Blind Students. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> I haven't heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? >>>>> >>>>> Anjelina >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co m >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Darian Smith >>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>>> >>>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >>>> But only you can have the drive." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail. com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Tue Feb 22 00:52:04 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 17:52:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752@Rufus> References: <43EBE08A5238410A9AFB2BB7D872C79A@AnjelinaPC> <694B79CD-4596-4D8D-BC43-6476BBAAC773@gmail.com> <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe, It's my understanding that the twenty-first century Communications Accessibility Act was pretty specific in the things it covered, whereas the Technology Bill of Rights is more general in what it asks for. And...yes, at least coming from conservative Utah, the states-rights issue came up a lot with our representatives. (although, ironicly, our most conservative representative's staff seemed more interested in that than any of the other issues) All the best, Kirt On 2/21/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > A couple questions: > > 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the 21st > Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is requested > in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the former. > > 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to setting > this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, but how > feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor of a > national benchmark? > > I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already an > ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, but > hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate more > people to venture out and start their own operations. > > Thanks for any information on the first two points. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 7:01 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? > > Hi Angelina and all, > > There will be more thorough updates about the Washington Seminar > published soon in the Braille Monitor and NABS publications, but I'll > briefly summarize the three legislative issues we pursued this year. > If I inadvertently quote the details of our proposals incorrectly, > someone please correct me: > (1) The technology bill of rights: We would like to introduce > legislation requiring manufacturers of consumer electronics to build > accessibility into their designs. This bill was introduced into the > House of Representatives last year, but failed to gain co-sponsorship, > so we would like to re-introduce it this year. > (2) Educational standards for blind children: We would like to propose > legislation setting up a commission to develop nationwide standards > for the education of blind children. Currently there is no national > standard, so educational goals and benchmarks are set by the > individual IEP team. As many of us know from personal experience, all > too often IEP teams, if dominated by people who have low expectations > for blind children, end up setting goals that dumb down the quality of > education the blind child receives (such as not requiring the child > to be able to read or do math on grade level), or that neglect > teaching of essential skills like Braille. This national standard > would hold teachers of blind children accountable and ensure that we > are being taught appropriate skills on the same level as our sighted > peers. > (3) The Americans with Disabilities Business Opportunities Act > (ADBOA): This proposed legislation would enable business owners with > disabilities (including blind merchants) to utilize advantages similar > to those given to female and minority business owners, such as tax > credits and incentives to businesses that conduct transactions with > them. > > Arielle > > On 2/19/11, anjelinac26 at gmail.com wrote: >> What were the main issues discussed? I'm not sure if I'll be able to make >> the conference call. >> Thanks >> >> Anjelina >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Feb 19, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> I can pop in to talk about the NABS meeting and give a summary of the >>> three issues we discussed with our legislators. I was not able to stay >>> through the end of the seminar so I am not sure how much progress we >>> made legislatively, so it'd be great if someone who was there through >>> the end could comment as well. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/19/11, Koby Cox wrote: >>>> I think that it would be useful >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Feb 19, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Darian Smith wrote: >>>> >>>>> hey Listers, >>>>> Would it be useful to you if at some point during the >>>>> up-coming call on youth slam, that someone does a quick recap on >>>>> Washington Legislative Seminar? >>>>> Let me know what you think, and we'll make it happen! >>>>> Darian Smith >>>>> Board Member/Membership Chair >>>>> National Association of Blind Students. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2/19/11, Anjelina wrote: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> I haven't heard much about Washington seminar. How were the sessions? >>>>>> >>>>>> Anjelina >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co > m >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Darian Smith >>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >>>>> >>>>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >>>>> But only you can have the drive." >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > il.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail. > com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > il.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Tue Feb 22 05:15:47 2011 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:15:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Few Convention Questions Message-ID: Hi All! I have a couple of questions about national convention this summer in Orlando. I was originally planning to room with a friend and her mother, and was only going to stay from July 2 to the 9th. However, after speaking with a few people from my state, it seems like a lot of people are either meeting up with family either after or before convention or just staying with friends and such for an extra vacation after convention. I would kind of like to stay a few extra days to go to Disney and such. Are most of you just staying the week of convention or are you staying extra? If I don't end up finding a group or my family members who live in Florida to stay with, is there enough to do at the various parks that I could enjoy them by myself? If I am planning to stay extra, do I need to reserve and make my plans ASAP? I know rooms for the convention week are going very fast and have to be reserved ASAP but if I want to try to plan to stay extra what is my time frame? Is it the same as convention week? I know my friend and her mother are not staying extra so I assume I'd have to reserve my own room if I want to stay extra. I hope it's okay that I ask these questions;like I said I was going to just stay the week but it seems a lot of other people are staying extra and I don't have any urgent reason I would have to be back for so thought I'd get a feel for my options and see what others on this list are planning to do. I've never been to Disney, or Orlando for that matter so want to try to enjoy it if I can and I know that I will be too busy during convention week to do anything else besides just convention things. Thanks, Kerri From aaatlantic at aol.com Tue Feb 22 05:28:04 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (alex) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:28:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Few Convention Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hey Kerri, Alex here I am going to the convention from July 2 to July 9th really you will not have time to do anything with the convention their are many things to do. I am going but I am staying for the one week only because I have to get back to school. On Feb 22, 2011, at 12:15 AM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi All! > > I have a couple of questions about national convention this summer in Orlando. > > I was originally planning to room with a friend and her mother, and > was only going to stay from July 2 to the 9th. > > However, after speaking with a few people from my state, it seems like > a lot of people are either meeting up with family either after or > before convention or just staying with friends and such for an extra > vacation after convention. > > I would kind of like to stay a few extra days to go to Disney and > such. Are most of you just staying the week of convention or are you > staying extra? > > If I don't end up finding a group or my family members who live in > Florida to stay with, is there enough to do at the various parks that > I could enjoy them by myself? > > If I am planning to stay extra, do I need to reserve and make my plans > ASAP? I know rooms for the convention week are going very fast and > have to be reserved ASAP but if I want to try to plan to stay extra > what is my time frame? Is it the same as convention week? > > I know my friend and her mother are not staying extra so I assume I'd > have to reserve my own room if I want to stay extra. > > I hope it's okay that I ask these questions;like I said I was going to > just stay the week but it seems a lot of other people are staying > extra and I don't have any urgent reason I would have to be back for > so thought I'd get a feel for my options and see what others on this > list are planning to do. > > I've never been to Disney, or Orlando for that matter so want to try > to enjoy it if I can and I know that I will be too busy during > convention week to do anything else besides just convention things. > > Thanks, > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Feb 22 13:51:36 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:51:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A Few Convention Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F92EE7B76D94EA8AD321F0B56113CE4@Rufus> For those of you guys going to Orlando, you should check out the Arabian Knights dinner show. I don't know if it's as good or better than Medieval Times, but I was personally a huge fan. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kerri Kosten Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:16 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] A Few Convention Questions Hi All! I have a couple of questions about national convention this summer in Orlando. I was originally planning to room with a friend and her mother, and was only going to stay from July 2 to the 9th. However, after speaking with a few people from my state, it seems like a lot of people are either meeting up with family either after or before convention or just staying with friends and such for an extra vacation after convention. I would kind of like to stay a few extra days to go to Disney and such. Are most of you just staying the week of convention or are you staying extra? If I don't end up finding a group or my family members who live in Florida to stay with, is there enough to do at the various parks that I could enjoy them by myself? If I am planning to stay extra, do I need to reserve and make my plans ASAP? I know rooms for the convention week are going very fast and have to be reserved ASAP but if I want to try to plan to stay extra what is my time frame? Is it the same as convention week? I know my friend and her mother are not staying extra so I assume I'd have to reserve my own room if I want to stay extra. I hope it's okay that I ask these questions;like I said I was going to just stay the week but it seems a lot of other people are staying extra and I don't have any urgent reason I would have to be back for so thought I'd get a feel for my options and see what others on this list are planning to do. I've never been to Disney, or Orlando for that matter so want to try to enjoy it if I can and I know that I will be too busy during convention week to do anything else besides just convention things. Thanks, Kerri _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From dianefilipe at peoplepc.com Tue Feb 22 13:53:02 2011 From: dianefilipe at peoplepc.com (Diane) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 06:53:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] A Few Convention Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My reservations are from July 1-11 with the convention rate, as I have a very ill cousin in Miami. Your reservations can always be changed! Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 10:15 PM Subject: [nabs-l] A Few Convention Questions > Hi All! > > I have a couple of questions about national convention this summer in > Orlando. > > I was originally planning to room with a friend and her mother, and > was only going to stay from July 2 to the 9th. > > However, after speaking with a few people from my state, it seems like > a lot of people are either meeting up with family either after or > before convention or just staying with friends and such for an extra > vacation after convention. > > I would kind of like to stay a few extra days to go to Disney and > such. Are most of you just staying the week of convention or are you > staying extra? > > If I don't end up finding a group or my family members who live in > Florida to stay with, is there enough to do at the various parks that > I could enjoy them by myself? > > If I am planning to stay extra, do I need to reserve and make my plans > ASAP? I know rooms for the convention week are going very fast and > have to be reserved ASAP but if I want to try to plan to stay extra > what is my time frame? Is it the same as convention week? > > I know my friend and her mother are not staying extra so I assume I'd > have to reserve my own room if I want to stay extra. > > I hope it's okay that I ask these questions;like I said I was going to > just stay the week but it seems a lot of other people are staying > extra and I don't have any urgent reason I would have to be back for > so thought I'd get a feel for my options and see what others on this > list are planning to do. > > I've never been to Disney, or Orlando for that matter so want to try > to enjoy it if I can and I know that I will be too busy during > convention week to do anything else besides just convention things. > > Thanks, > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Tue Feb 22 23:00:17 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 17:00:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joe and others, I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory it is great, but how practical is it? We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when you begin to think about all the people who can not use current technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group who require alternative means to technology. Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally everything be made with accessible features out of the package? For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in person to determine how difficult it may be to use. But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the Federation play? Is there a timeline? Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. Bridgit Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" A couple questions: 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the former. 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor of a national benchmark? I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate more people to venture out and start their own operations. Thanks for any information on the first two points. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 00:20:54 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:20:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we been a part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not about being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and it's always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, it's as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar Joe and others, I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory it is great, but how practical is it? We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when you begin to think about all the people who can not use current technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group who require alternative means to technology. Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally everything be made with accessible features out of the package? For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in person to determine how difficult it may be to use. But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the Federation play? Is there a timeline? Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. Bridgit Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" A couple questions: 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the former. 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor of a national benchmark? I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate more people to venture out and start their own operations. Thanks for any information on the first two points. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 01:57:40 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:57:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Chemistry Resource for Blind Students and Professionals Message-ID: I have been asked to post the following: The MOLinsight web portal is a gateway to open-source software as well as software freely accessible to students that can be integrated in strategies for blind users to process chemical structures - www.molinsight.net It includes the NavMol program - a molecular editor for visually impaired users. The NavMol program enables the user to navigate the structure of a molecule atom-by-atom, providing information about neighbors of each atom and bond types. It also allows structures to be changed by adding or deleting atoms and bonds. This is a very simple application, which only uses the MS-DOS or Linux shell command-line interface. Users interact with the program via the keyboard and text-to-speech software (such as JAWS), or Braille hardware. If you are interested in installing and testing the new version, or getting involved in the project, please contact Joao Aires de Sousa (jas at fct.unl.pt). Testers of the new improved version are welcome. Best regards, joao -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 02:12:42 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:12:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joe and all, I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting opinions. Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more important for the education of blind children than it is for the education of children in general. Arielle On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join > the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have > included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we been a > part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, > but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net > neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the > totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not about > being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and it's > always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete > plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also > support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, it's > as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Bridgit Pollpeter > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > Joe and others, > > I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory > it is great, but how practical is it? > > We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but > shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when > you begin to think about all the people who can not use current > technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility > for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group > who require alternative means to technology. > > Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their > own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most > expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge > undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally > everything be made with accessible features out of the package? > > For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed > Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven > and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. > > I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch > screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like > the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand > mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in > person to determine how difficult it may be to use. > > But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology > would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream > technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. > > Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the > specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. > > I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access > to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their > own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the > Federation play? Is there a timeline? > > Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say > that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access > to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. > > Bridgit > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? > Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > A couple questions: > > 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the > 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is > requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the > former. > > 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to > setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, > but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor > of a national benchmark? > > I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already > an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, > but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate > more people to venture out and start their own operations. > > Thanks for any information on the first two points. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Feb 23 02:15:38 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:15:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> Aren't all education standards directed by the states? On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Joe and all, > > I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology > bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have > questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to > Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse > will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and > he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting > opinions. > > Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what > extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards > vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question > either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between > state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the > extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national > standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted > children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind > children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. > While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized > tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance > standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national > mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that > blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic > potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are > behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but > in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of > access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential > literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and > blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put > upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and > learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more > important for the education of blind children than it is for the > education of children in general. > > Arielle > > On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we been a >> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not about >> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and it's >> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, it's >> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >> >> Joe and others, >> >> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >> it is great, but how practical is it? >> >> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >> who require alternative means to technology. >> >> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >> >> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >> >> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >> >> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >> >> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >> >> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >> >> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> A couple questions: >> >> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >> former. >> >> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >> of a national benchmark? >> >> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >> >> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 02:18:25 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:18:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> References: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> Message-ID: George, No. It's my understanding that there is a federal standard. Take no child left behind, for instance. And there was a federal curiculum that our senators/staffers kept talking about, some liked it and some didn't at all. So yeah, as far as I know, there are federal standards. Best, Kirt On 2/22/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Aren't all education standards directed by the states? > > > On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi Joe and all, >> >> I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology >> bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have >> questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to >> Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse >> will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and >> he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting >> opinions. >> >> Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what >> extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards >> vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question >> either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between >> state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the >> extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national >> standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted >> children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind >> children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. >> While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized >> tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance >> standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national >> mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that >> blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic >> potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are >> behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but >> in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of >> access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential >> literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and >> blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put >> upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and >> learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more >> important for the education of blind children than it is for the >> education of children in general. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >>> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >>> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we >>> been a >>> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >>> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >>> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >>> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not >>> about >>> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and >>> it's >>> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >>> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >>> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, >>> it's >>> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >>> >>> Joe and others, >>> >>> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >>> it is great, but how practical is it? >>> >>> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >>> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >>> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >>> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >>> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >>> who require alternative means to technology. >>> >>> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >>> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >>> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >>> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >>> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >>> >>> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >>> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >>> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >>> >>> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >>> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >>> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >>> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >>> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >>> >>> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >>> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >>> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >>> >>> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >>> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >>> >>> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >>> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >>> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >>> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >>> >>> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >>> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >>> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >>> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> A couple questions: >>> >>> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >>> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >>> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >>> former. >>> >>> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >>> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >>> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >>> of a national benchmark? >>> >>> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >>> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >>> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >>> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >>> >>> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 23 02:31:26 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:31:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> References: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> Message-ID: <0A7921506D954F73BFB4CC89FBF1A30E@OwnerPC> No George. The fedederal Department of education has a hand in some guidelines. I've not looked into it and do not work for DOE so I do not know what role the federal government plays but it plays some role. The No Child Left behind Act mandated standardized testing and strengthened the federal government role. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar Aren't all education standards directed by the states? On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Joe and all, > > I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology > bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have > questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to > Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse > will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and > he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting > opinions. > > Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what > extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards > vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question > either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between > state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the > extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national > standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted > children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind > children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. > While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized > tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance > standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national > mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that > blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic > potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are > behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but > in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of > access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential > literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and > blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put > upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and > learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more > important for the education of blind children than it is for the > education of children in general. > > Arielle > > On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we >> been a >> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not >> about >> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and >> it's >> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, >> it's >> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >> >> Joe and others, >> >> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >> it is great, but how practical is it? >> >> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >> who require alternative means to technology. >> >> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >> >> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >> >> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >> >> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >> >> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >> >> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >> >> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> A couple questions: >> >> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >> former. >> >> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >> of a national benchmark? >> >> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >> >> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Feb 23 03:03:02 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:03:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible Statistics software program? Message-ID: Hi guys, I remember from you guys that SPSS isn't accessible with Jaws. I have to take Stats this summer as a requirement for grad school. Rutgers has an online course that's pass fail! **smile!** Only thing is, SPSS is required. The prof. asked me if there is any alternative software program that's accessible with Jaws I can use, instead. Anybody know? Thanks, Serena From jbahm at pcdesk.net Wed Feb 23 03:05:44 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 20:05:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Compression Software In-Reply-To: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> References: <09373B3112DC4CA2802B1D2B2DAA2AA5@MIRANDA> Message-ID: <4D647988.1040209@pcdesk.net> LOL With that question you're going to get blown away with emails about people expressing their preference. Here's mine. http://www.7-zip.org It can do zip if you need that, but it also has a superior format and several better compression methods. Joe From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 03:14:28 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:14:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: <0A7921506D954F73BFB4CC89FBF1A30E@OwnerPC> References: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> <0A7921506D954F73BFB4CC89FBF1A30E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Oh, I hope no one mentioned No Child Left Untested, I mean, Behind, as part of their pitch to congressional staffers. Even a Republican such as me knows that law was more aspiration than anything else. I'm all in favor of the NFB's approach. I'm curious as to why this was not promoted back when IDEA was reauthorized though. In the current climate of battles over the federal budget, this does not seem to be the most prudent time to create another governmental body. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar No George. The fedederal Department of education has a hand in some guidelines. I've not looked into it and do not work for DOE so I do not know what role the federal government plays but it plays some role. The No Child Left behind Act mandated standardized testing and strengthened the federal government role. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar Aren't all education standards directed by the states? On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Joe and all, > > I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology > bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have > questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to > Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse > will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and > he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting > opinions. > > Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what > extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards > vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question > either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between > state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the > extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national > standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted > children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind > children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. > While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized > tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance > standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national > mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that > blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic > potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are > behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but > in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of > access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential > literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and > blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put > upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and > learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more > important for the education of blind children than it is for the > education of children in general. > > Arielle > > On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we >> been a >> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not >> about >> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and >> it's >> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, >> it's >> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >> >> Joe and others, >> >> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >> it is great, but how practical is it? >> >> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >> who require alternative means to technology. >> >> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >> >> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >> >> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >> >> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >> >> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >> >> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >> >> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> A couple questions: >> >> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >> former. >> >> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >> of a national benchmark? >> >> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >> >> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From liamskitten at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 03:16:43 2011 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:16:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible Statistics software program? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Serena, This comes from a post by Mary Fernandez on this topic: Hi Serena, Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And it is accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right person in the tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did absolutely everything independently. However, it is a complex software even for sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just work with a reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same computer, and get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will be using this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar with it. I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's something you're interested in. Good luck! Sincerely The java bridge that was discussed can be found here: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/index-jsp-136191.html Hopefully, this will prove useful. Courtney On 2/22/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Hi guys, > > > > I remember from you guys that SPSS isn't accessible with Jaws. I have to > take Stats this summer as a requirement for grad school. Rutgers has an > online course that's pass fail! **smile!** Only thing is, SPSS is required. > The prof. asked me if there is any alternative software program that's > accessible with Jaws I can use, instead. Anybody know? > > > > Thanks, > > Serena > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 03:24:08 2011 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:24:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible Statistics software program? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Serena and Courtney! Courtney thanks for posting that, I was about to give the same speech. lol. Serena if you want, send me your phone number off list, o call me, my cell is in the signature. we can talk about it more. Thanks! On 2/22/11, Courtney Stover wrote: > Serena, > > This comes from a post by Mary Fernandez on this topic: > > Hi Serena, > Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And it is > accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right person in the > tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did absolutely > everything independently. However, it is a complex software even for > sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just work with a > reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same computer, and > get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will be using > this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar with it. > I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's something you're > interested in. > Good luck! > Sincerely > > The java bridge that was discussed can be found here: > > > http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/index-jsp-136191.html > Hopefully, this will prove useful. > Courtney > > > On 2/22/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> >> >> I remember from you guys that SPSS isn't accessible with Jaws. I have to >> take Stats this summer as a requirement for grad school. Rutgers has an >> online course that's pass fail! **smile!** Only thing is, SPSS is >> required. >> The prof. asked me if there is any alternative software program that's >> accessible with Jaws I can use, instead. Anybody know? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Serena >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez President: Georgia Association of Blind Students Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing it." Terry Pratchett From liamskitten at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 03:37:50 2011 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 21:37:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible Statistics software program? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mary; You're more than welcome. I'm starting a statistics class next year, so your original post is going to come in extremely handy. Courtney On 2/22/11, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hi Serena and Courtney! > Courtney thanks for posting that, I was about to give the same speech. > lol. Serena if you want, send me your phone number off list, o call > me, my cell is in the signature. we can talk about it more. > Thanks! > > > On 2/22/11, Courtney Stover wrote: >> Serena, >> >> This comes from a post by Mary Fernandez on this topic: >> >> Hi Serena, >> Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And it is >> accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right person in the >> tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did absolutely >> everything independently. However, it is a complex software even for >> sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just work with a >> reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same computer, and >> get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will be using >> this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar with it. >> I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's something you're >> interested in. >> Good luck! >> Sincerely >> >> The java bridge that was discussed can be found here: >> >> >> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/index-jsp-136191.html >> Hopefully, this will prove useful. >> Courtney >> >> >> On 2/22/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> >>> >>> I remember from you guys that SPSS isn't accessible with Jaws. I have to >>> take Stats this summer as a requirement for grad school. Rutgers has an >>> online course that's pass fail! **smile!** Only thing is, SPSS is >>> required. >>> The prof. asked me if there is any alternative software program that's >>> accessible with Jaws I can use, instead. Anybody know? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > President: Georgia Association of Blind Students > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > > "It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much > rather you weren't doing it." > Terry Pratchett > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Feb 23 03:42:28 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:42:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: References: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com><0A7921506D954F73BFB4CC89FBF1A30E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7A27E9E1C0904A818EDF02C06EF619BC@OwnerPC> e, I agree there! NCLB did not work! Yet the federal government has a hand in education. I agree given the political turmoil, its not the best time to introduce new government ideas. Yet I guess NFB felt blind kids are not held to same standards and figured they needed to do something. Arielle is right; the government should support blind kids to the extent they support sighted kids. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Orozco Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:14 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar Oh, I hope no one mentioned No Child Left Untested, I mean, Behind, as part of their pitch to congressional staffers. Even a Republican such as me knows that law was more aspiration than anything else. I'm all in favor of the NFB's approach. I'm curious as to why this was not promoted back when IDEA was reauthorized though. In the current climate of battles over the federal budget, this does not seem to be the most prudent time to create another governmental body. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar No George. The fedederal Department of education has a hand in some guidelines. I've not looked into it and do not work for DOE so I do not know what role the federal government plays but it plays some role. The No Child Left behind Act mandated standardized testing and strengthened the federal government role. -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar Aren't all education standards directed by the states? On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Joe and all, > > I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology > bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have > questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to > Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse > will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and > he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting > opinions. > > Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what > extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards > vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question > either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between > state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the > extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national > standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted > children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind > children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. > While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized > tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance > standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national > mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that > blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic > potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are > behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but > in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of > access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential > literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and > blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put > upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and > learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more > important for the education of blind children than it is for the > education of children in general. > > Arielle > > On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we >> been a >> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not >> about >> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and >> it's >> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, >> it's >> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >> >> Joe and others, >> >> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >> it is great, but how practical is it? >> >> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >> who require alternative means to technology. >> >> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >> >> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >> >> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >> >> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >> >> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >> >> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >> >> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >> >> Bridgit >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> A couple questions: >> >> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >> former. >> >> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >> of a national benchmark? >> >> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >> >> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed Feb 23 03:48:09 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:48:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: <7A27E9E1C0904A818EDF02C06EF619BC@OwnerPC> References: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> <0A7921506D954F73BFB4CC89FBF1A30E@OwnerPC> <7A27E9E1C0904A818EDF02C06EF619BC@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <33DBE531-5A0E-4D86-9717-04294AFF3B5D@mac.com> Joe: I'm wondering, would it be better to perhaps launch a state-by-state campaign? To introduce measures in states to the same effect, and have the federal bill serve as a backup? So that we're not just relying on the federal government passing this for changes to start taking effect. On Feb 22, 2011, at 10:42 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > e, I agree there! NCLB did not work! > Yet the federal government has a hand in education. > I agree given the political turmoil, its not the best time to introduce new government ideas. > Yet I guess NFB felt blind kids are not held to same standards and figured they needed to do something. > Arielle is right; the government should support blind kids to the extent they support sighted kids. > > -----Original Message----- From: Joe Orozco > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:14 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > Oh, I hope no one mentioned No Child Left Untested, I mean, Behind, as part > of their pitch to congressional staffers. Even a Republican such as me > knows that law was more aspiration than anything else. I'm all in favor of > the NFB's approach. I'm curious as to why this was not promoted back when > IDEA was reauthorized though. In the current climate of battles over the > federal budget, this does not seem to be the most prudent time to create > another governmental body. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > No George. The fedederal Department of education has a hand in some > guidelines. > I've not looked into it and do not work for DOE so I do not know what role > the federal government plays but it plays some role. > The No Child Left behind Act mandated standardized testing and strengthened > the federal government role. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > Aren't all education standards directed by the states? > > > On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi Joe and all, >> >> I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology >> bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have >> questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to >> Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse >> will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and >> he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting >> opinions. >> >> Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what >> extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards >> vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question >> either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between >> state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the >> extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national >> standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted >> children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind >> children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. >> While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized >> tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance >> standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national >> mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that >> blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic >> potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are >> behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but >> in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of >> access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential >> literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and >> blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put >> upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and >> learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more >> important for the education of blind children than it is for the >> education of children in general. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >>> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >>> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we >>> been a >>> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >>> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >>> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >>> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not >>> about >>> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and >>> it's >>> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >>> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >>> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, >>> it's >>> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >>> >>> Joe and others, >>> >>> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >>> it is great, but how practical is it? >>> >>> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >>> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >>> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >>> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >>> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >>> who require alternative means to technology. >>> >>> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >>> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >>> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >>> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >>> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >>> >>> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >>> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >>> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >>> >>> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >>> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >>> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >>> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >>> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >>> >>> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >>> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >>> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >>> >>> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >>> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >>> >>> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >>> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >>> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >>> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >>> >>> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >>> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >>> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >>> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> A couple questions: >>> >>> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >>> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >>> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >>> former. >>> >>> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >>> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >>> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >>> of a national benchmark? >>> >>> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >>> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >>> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >>> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >>> >>> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > il.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From agrima at nbp.org Wed Feb 23 10:38:31 2011 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 04:38:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NBP-Announce: Calling Android Users! Plus, our Top 5 List Message-ID: Are you an Android user? NBP is looking for Android users to test some applications we are developing for our PDA. If you have interest in helping us please contact Lindsay Broyhill at lbroyhill at nbp.org and we will get you the information needed. Thanks for your help! Our Top 5 Bestsellers of 2011 1. Getting Started with the iPhone: An Introduction for Blind Users, $18.00 (Braille, eBraille, DAISY, or Word) http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/IPHONE.html 2. Monday Morning Quotations, $9.00 (Braille) http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/QUOTES2011.html 3. Helen Keller Magnet, $4.95 (Print/braille magnet) http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/MAG-KELLER.html 4. Tacky the Penguin, $10.99 (Print/braille picture book with audio CD) http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/BC1101-TACKY.html 5. Braille Caravan, $30.00 (30 blocks, print activity guide, canvas bag) http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/CARAVAN.htm ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . _______________________________________________ Nbp mailing list Nbp at nbp.org PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . Visit us at http://www.nbp.org From jkenn337 at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 13:35:09 2011 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 08:35:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] hebrew and Arabic Message-ID: <4D650D0D.7030600@gmail.com> Hi Is there anyone on here who could add the following languages to espeak? You can get espeak at http://espeak.sourceforge.net/test/latest.html . If you could add and make it speak the following languages I would appreciate it. Japanese Korean Arabic Hebrew Irish Gaelic I looked at the phonemes tables files but they are beyond my understanding. thanks, Josh Kennedy From cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com Wed Feb 23 10:15:50 2011 From: cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com (cheryl echevarria) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 04:15:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Tours at 2011 NFb Convention Message-ID: Cheryl Echevarria of Echevarria Travel, and member of the Greater Long Island Chapter and Maurice Shackelford of Peachtreetravel.net and member of the Georgia Affiliate are working with Dan Hicks and the Florida NFB Affiliate on July 9th to have some tours around the Orlando area. There will be a full announcement in the Braille Monitor in April. But, in the meantime, I wanted to give you all a heads up on it. I have already reserved 4 buses, if we need more then I will order more, 1 bus for Kennedy Space Center, 1 Bus for Walt Disney World, 1 Bus for Universal Studios, and one Bus for Sea World The bus tickets will be round trip for $20.00 per person, $10.00 per person deposit is due no later than May 1, 2011 We are working today on getting group rates of all locations posted, we need a head count as soon as possible so that we can arrange for more or less buses to each location. Again. Let me know asap, and spread the word please. Thank you. I have our contact information below The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! Cheryl Echevarria Owner of Echevarria Travel http://www.Echevarriatravel.com 1-866-580-5574 or 631-456-5394 reservations at echevarriatravel.com Maurice Shackelford Owner of http://www,Peachtreetravel.net (phone) 888-389-2723 reservations at peachtreetravel.net _______________________________________________ Nfbnet-members-list mailing list Nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 17:54:52 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 12:54:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: <33DBE531-5A0E-4D86-9717-04294AFF3B5D@mac.com> References: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com><0A7921506D954F73BFB4CC89FBF1A30E@OwnerPC><7A27E9E1C0904A818EDF02C06EF619BC@OwnerPC> <33DBE531-5A0E-4D86-9717-04294AFF3B5D@mac.com> Message-ID: <53A18A13B8AD4C27B84E944A3B718CE2@Rufus> I'm not so sure about a state-by-state approach, since the main idea is that states are already responsible for poor standards, hence the need for a federal benchmark, but even if a state approach were feasible, you'd have to assume the affiliate was strong enough to undertake the lobby/education effort. State-level legislation campaigns are a slow process, as was true of the various Braille bills states passed. No, I think the NFB has the right idea, but it's hard to envision it getting far given this year's general political agenda and next year's election. This is, however, one of those things I am eager to be proven wrong on. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jorge Paez Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar Joe: I'm wondering, would it be better to perhaps launch a state-by-state campaign? To introduce measures in states to the same effect, and have the federal bill serve as a backup? So that we're not just relying on the federal government passing this for changes to start taking effect. On Feb 22, 2011, at 10:42 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > e, I agree there! NCLB did not work! > Yet the federal government has a hand in education. > I agree given the political turmoil, its not the best time to introduce new government ideas. > Yet I guess NFB felt blind kids are not held to same standards and figured they needed to do something. > Arielle is right; the government should support blind kids to the extent they support sighted kids. > > -----Original Message----- From: Joe Orozco > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 10:14 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > Oh, I hope no one mentioned No Child Left Untested, I mean, Behind, as part > of their pitch to congressional staffers. Even a Republican such as me > knows that law was more aspiration than anything else. I'm all in favor of > the NFB's approach. I'm curious as to why this was not promoted back when > IDEA was reauthorized though. In the current climate of battles over the > federal budget, this does not seem to be the most prudent time to create > another governmental body. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > No George. The fedederal Department of education has a hand in some > guidelines. > I've not looked into it and do not work for DOE so I do not know what role > the federal government plays but it plays some role. > The No Child Left behind Act mandated standardized testing and strengthened > the federal government role. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > Aren't all education standards directed by the states? > > > On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi Joe and all, >> >> I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology >> bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have >> questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to >> Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse >> will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and >> he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting >> opinions. >> >> Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what >> extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards >> vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question >> either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between >> state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the >> extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national >> standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted >> children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind >> children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. >> While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized >> tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance >> standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national >> mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that >> blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic >> potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are >> behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but >> in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of >> access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential >> literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and >> blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put >> upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and >> learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more >> important for the education of blind children than it is for the >> education of children in general. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >>> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >>> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we >>> been a >>> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >>> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >>> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >>> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not >>> about >>> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and >>> it's >>> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >>> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >>> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, >>> it's >>> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >>> >>> Joe and others, >>> >>> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >>> it is great, but how practical is it? >>> >>> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >>> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >>> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >>> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >>> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >>> who require alternative means to technology. >>> >>> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >>> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >>> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >>> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >>> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >>> >>> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >>> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >>> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >>> >>> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >>> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >>> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >>> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >>> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >>> >>> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >>> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >>> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >>> >>> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >>> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >>> >>> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >>> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >>> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >>> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >>> >>> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >>> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >>> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >>> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> A couple questions: >>> >>> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >>> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >>> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >>> former. >>> >>> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >>> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >>> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >>> of a national benchmark? >>> >>> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >>> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >>> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >>> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >>> >>> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > il.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 19:40:44 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 13:40:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? Message-ID: <009b01cbd391$90940710$b1bc1530$@com> Good afternoon, George is correct. There are no national standards in education. NCLB requires states and local educational agencies, if they wish to continue to receive federal education funding, to test and measure the progress of their students. There is no definition of standards on the federal level, and there is no common curriculum mandated by the federal government. Each state is left to set standards and define what students must know, they are only required to test students to see if students are achieving the standards states have set forth. NCLB does require that each state have only one standard, for all districts and all students. That "all students" ought to include blind and other disabled students. Certainly there could be implemented laws or regulations that would encourage states, with financial or other incentives, to create better standards for the education of blind kids without mandating specific standards from the federal Department of Education. Personally, I have no problem with federal requirements for standards or curricula, but I realize many people do not feel that way. States rights, I suppose, include the right to have a woefully inadequate public education system, as long as it is equally inadequate for all students statewide. Regarding the political viability of the commission to start working out what might be done to address the problem, I agree it is a tough sell politically in this environment, but so would be virtually any legislative initiative that involved additional resources being expended. That would be most legislative initiatives we could take up. The mere fact that a thing's success does not look immediately probable in no way implies that the thing is not worth fighting for. Yes, IDEA reauthorization would have been a nice time to address this, but that ship has sailed. Besides, we were too busy arguing that we former SSDI recipients with jobs should still be raking in the government cheese. I agree that political realities and opportunities should play a large determining role in what legislative initiatives we take up, and, in my opinion, this is one place where are legislative strategy has occasionally fallen short, but I also very much believe that if you see an issue that needs addressing, you should bring it to people's attention, lay the groundwork for success, and wait for the opportunity to effect the change you desire. I think that is what we are doing. Regarding the 21st Century Communications Act, yes, it is sad that our inability to acknowledge that the ACB ever does anything good stopped us from vocally supporting it, but it has passed. What more ought we to be doing to support it? While it does cover some devices of major import, it left many untouched in its initial form, and, in fact, was largely gutted before passage. Even the initial version of the bill was not a panacea, and the passed version, relative to broad access to technology, scarcely makes a dent. I don't think we are concerned about products that can be easily made accessible. I am troubled by the knowledge that, one day in the not too distant future, I might not be able to use my stove, washer, or thermostat at home, or the fax machine, data base, or communications device at work. Again, is this a tough political sell? Of course. Does that mean it is not worth fighting for? To my mind, no. We may have to bang this drum for a long time, and we will likely never achieve the 100% access we desire, but the problem is real and the solutions are viable. I don't mind banging my head against the wall on an issue of fundamental fairness like this, though I certainly did not enjoy the repeated noggin knocking over the SSDI issue, which was grounded in a notion that was fundamentally unfair, and I would submit, at odds with espoused NFB philosophy. Take care, Sean From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 19:53:57 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 12:53:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: <009b01cbd391$90940710$b1bc1530$@com> References: <009b01cbd391$90940710$b1bc1530$@com> Message-ID: Sean, What about the Common Core State Standards? I thought that every state in the union has committed to follow these guidelines. I know that's not the same as the federal government mandating anything, but doesn't it almost amount to the same thing? It was these common core standards that our affiliate emphasized the most in our lobbying. Best, Kirt On 2/23/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > Good afternoon, > > > > George is correct. There are no national standards in education. NCLB > requires states and local educational agencies, if they wish to continue to > receive federal education funding, to test and measure the progress of their > students. There is no definition of standards on the federal level, and > there is no common curriculum mandated by the federal government. Each state > is left to set standards and define what students must know, they are only > required to test students to see if students are achieving the standards > states have set forth. NCLB does require that each state have only one > standard, for all districts and all students. That "all students" ought to > include blind and other disabled students. > > > > Certainly there could be implemented laws or regulations that would > encourage states, with financial or other incentives, to create better > standards for the education of blind kids without mandating specific > standards from the federal Department of Education. Personally, I have no > problem with federal requirements for standards or curricula, but I realize > many people do not feel that way. States rights, I suppose, include the > right to have a woefully inadequate public education system, as long as it > is equally inadequate for all students statewide. > > > > Regarding the political viability of the commission to start working out > what might be done to address the problem, I agree it is a tough sell > politically in this environment, but so would be virtually any legislative > initiative that involved additional resources being expended. That would be > most legislative initiatives we could take up. The mere fact that a thing's > success does not look immediately probable in no way implies that the thing > is not worth fighting for. Yes, IDEA reauthorization would have been a nice > time to address this, but that ship has sailed. Besides, we were too busy > arguing that we former SSDI recipients with jobs should still be raking in > the government cheese. I agree that political realities and opportunities > should play a large determining role in what legislative initiatives we take > up, and, in my opinion, this is one place where are legislative strategy has > occasionally fallen short, but I also very much believe that if you see an > issue that needs addressing, you should bring it to people's attention, lay > the groundwork for success, and wait for the opportunity to effect the > change you desire. I think that is what we are doing. > > > > Regarding the 21st Century Communications Act, yes, it is sad that our > inability to acknowledge that the ACB ever does anything good stopped us > from vocally supporting it, but it has passed. What more ought we to be > doing to support it? While it does cover some devices of major import, it > left many untouched in its initial form, and, in fact, was largely gutted > before passage. Even the initial version of the bill was not a panacea, and > the passed version, relative to broad access to technology, scarcely makes a > dent. I don't think we are concerned about products that can be easily made > accessible. I am troubled by the knowledge that, one day in the not too > distant future, I might not be able to use my stove, washer, or thermostat > at home, or the fax machine, data base, or communications device at work. > Again, is this a tough political sell? Of course. Does that mean it is not > worth fighting for? To my mind, no. We may have to bang this drum for a long > time, and we will likely never achieve the 100% access we desire, but the > problem is real and the solutions are viable. I don't mind banging my head > against the wall on an issue of fundamental fairness like this, though I > certainly did not enjoy the repeated noggin knocking over the SSDI issue, > which was grounded in a notion that was fundamentally unfair, and I would > submit, at odds with espoused NFB philosophy. > > > > Take care, > > > > Sean > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 21:48:42 2011 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:48:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Accessible stats software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alexander Castillo Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:45:28 -0500 Subject: Accessible stats software? To: b-l at nfbnet.org Hi all, some of you guys mentioned SPSS being fully accessible. This was not the case when I used it. Yes, I had installed the java access bridge and made all modifications. Different versions of SPSS work differently with accessibility software. What versions were you using? Also, this has been posted before, but there is another program out there called r which seems to have better accessibility. I have not tried it. I believe it is open source, so you can download and play around with it at no cost. it can be found at http://www.r-project.org/ Thanks, Alex From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 23:08:29 2011 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 18:08:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Colorado Grads and present students! Message-ID: Hi all, one of our friends from New York would like to attend CCB. I think it would be a great idea if one of you CCB grads, or current students can speak and give her a bit more information on what she can expect from training and life as a student. She is a college grad with a BA in Sociology, mid 20's and a non-native English speaker, and in the justification process of getting sponsored for training. Email me off list at AlexanderA.Castillo at gmail.com if you are interested in speaking with her. Thanks for reading, Alex From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 23:16:36 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:16:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] For any CCB graduate or current student Message-ID: Dear list, As I've mentioned earlier, I'm strongly considering attending a training center. After doing a bit of research, I'm thinking the Colorado environment might be best for me. I'd apreciate any Colorado student/graduate emailing me off list and telling me what I could expect. Basically the same kinds of things Alexander put in his post...just a couple minutes ago. Also, if anyone wants to make the case for another center, feel free to email me off list as well. I've not quite made up my mind yet. Best, Kirt From kea.anderson at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 01:13:29 2011 From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:13:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Slate Contest Message-ID: <4d65b0be.0548960a.5e2e.4b48@mx.google.com> Hello NABSters, James Konechne from BISM has asked me to cerculate the following. Feel free to contact either him or me with any questions. Karen Anderson Hi all, My name is James Konechne. I'm the Braille instructor at Blind Industries and Services of Maryland's comprehensive adult blindness structured discovery training program. As a large component of my Braille curriculum, I teach our students how to write with the slate and stylus. A strategy I recently began utilizing to monitor my students' accuracy and speed with this skill has been to create a monthly contest within the student body. Not only does this give me the information I need to gage their progress, it also encourages a healthy dose of competition between the students. The contest consists of two components: a slate sprint and an endurance race. Each involves writing the alphabet repeatedly. For the slate sprint, the students write as fast as they can for 30 seconds. I count each four letters as a word and take a word off for every error that is made. The endurance race is similar in scoring and speed, with the exception of the student being timed for five minutes of constant writing. My students were trash talking lately and came up with the idea of having a friendly little competition among all adults currently learning how to write with the slate. They are ready and willing to take on any writer with the guts to join in on the contest!! If you want to get a piece of the action, time your students for both races and send me your results via e-mail. Then, let the trash talk begin!! Let's have a little fun and promote Braille writing at the same time! Official Rules: Contest writing must be done using a standard, 28-cell, four-line slate. Standard, heavy weight Braille paper must be used. Only one alphabet can be written per line. The clock must be allowed to continue to run while the slate is being moved to fresh paper since this is an essential component of writing. A Timing Example and Scoring: In the five minute endurance race, if, for example, a student writes five complete alphabets, they will have written a total of 30 words. If they make five errors, five words are subtracted bringing them down to a total of 25 total correct words. This is then divided by five to come up with a total of five words per minute. Call or e-mail with any questions. James K cell 4109250707 From clb5590 at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 16:27:24 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:27:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] upcoming NCABS student seminar! Message-ID: The NC Association of Blind Students wants to inform you of our third annual student seminar, Saturday, March 19. A flyer is attached, but some notable events will be speakers on innovations in assistive technology, a resume building workshop, breakout sessions, and a session on sports and fitness. We will have an exhibit hall with 21 vendors including several technology demonstrations, BLIND, Inc., and the Raleigh board of elections teaching blind students how to use the accessible voting machines. More information can be found on the flyer and by visiting our website, www.ncabs.org. Please pass this along to anyone who might be interested, and feel free to email me with questions. -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NCABS_2011_Student_Seminar_Flyer.doc Type: application/msword Size: 28160 bytes Desc: not available URL: From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 18:31:39 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:31:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? Message-ID: <002d01cbd451$148e4a20$3daade60$@com> Kirt, You are correct that there are common core standards that were worked out by the National Governors Association, but, as far as I know, only 41 states are currently signed on to that effort. You are certainly right in that this is the closest thing we have to national standards, but, as you point out, standards voluntarily agreed upon by the states are something very different than federally mandated standards. It is hard to make the argument for standards for blind kids based on that parallel. If anything, I would think that pointing to the common core standards adopted by the states would lead lawmakers to suggest that our issue be resolved in a similar fashion rather than by addressing the issue on the national level. All the best, Sean From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 18:58:15 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:58:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? In-Reply-To: <002d01cbd451$148e4a20$3daade60$@com> References: <002d01cbd451$148e4a20$3daade60$@com> Message-ID: Sean, I'm wondering if starting with the Common Core isn't a bad idea. I'm not quite sure who puts the common core together (the National Governor's Association I think), but...if we got that same body to make an addendum to the common core, would that not be a decent place to start from? Best, Kirt On 2/24/11, Sean Whalen wrote: > Kirt, > > > > You are correct that there are common core standards that were worked out by > the National Governors Association, but, as far as I know, only 41 states > are currently signed on to that effort. You are certainly right in that this > is the closest thing we have to national standards, but, as you point out, > standards voluntarily agreed upon by the states are something very different > than federally mandated standards. It is hard to make the argument for > standards for blind kids based on that parallel. If anything, I would think > that pointing to the common core standards adopted by the states would lead > lawmakers to suggest that our issue be resolved in a similar fashion rather > than by addressing the issue on the national level. > > > > All the best, > > > > Sean > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 19:01:23 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 13:01:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] unemployment rate Message-ID: <003d01cbd455$3b57f580$b207e080$@com> Kirt, I know this thread has long since passed, but I just wanted to write to say I'm sorry, you are correct. Nothing in your original post said or implied that you devalue the work of blind folks in the blindness field. It was an unfair characterization. Everything I said still stands, generally speaking, and many people do devalue the blindness work, but you did not. To answer the question, I know of no such statistic, but, fortunately for you, your success in gaining employment in whichever field you choose is not dependent on the number of other blind folks who have been successfully employed in that field. I can see where the temptation to gauge your prospects against the number of others who have done what you want to do comes from, but I wouldn't give it too much thought. Just get the education, develop the skills, and keep the determination, and you will be bringing up the numbers of the employed blind in no time. Take care, Sean From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] unemployment rate Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sean, I'd like to point out a few things. First...other disabilities, particularly severe cognative disabilities, are extremely relivant to a person's job eligability. I don't want to sound prejudiced...but that's just the way it is. I know lots of people with severe mental disabilities who happen to be blind as well and, while I'm not under-valuing them as people, I am fully aware that some of those disabilities impact a person's ability to work. That's why I'm curious what the unemployment rate is for people who are only blind...because, for a lot of those people, other severe cognative disabilities are definitely a factor in their unemployed status. As for the question about blind people working in the blindness field...I'm a little lost as to why you think I was implying that was inferior. I'm just curious because that's where most blind people I know work. Indeed I'm hard-pressed to find a totally blind person in my local area who I know that doesn't work in the blindness field...so I think it's a legitimate question. It's like if I were to ask what percentage of the American working population works in, say, the lobbying business. That, to me, does not imply the inferiority or superiority of that kind of work...it just means I'm interested to know how many employed blind people have jobs in the blindness field. Do you see my point? I just want to know because I'm a blind person and most blind people I know work primarily with other blind people...so I wonder if anyone has any kind of data to show how many blind people work outside of the blindness arena. That's all, I just want to know because I'm probably not going to have a job in the field of blindness and I want to see where that puts me, percentage-wise. In this case, I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. All the best, Kirt Sean Whalen Policy Associate Linchpin Strategies, LLC 639 Massachusetts Ave NE Washington, DC 20002 Phone: (866) 443-0998 Fax: (202) 318-8113 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 20:07:37 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:07:37 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Youth-outreach] Independence 2011 In-Reply-To: References: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC02F3810D@blindmail.BISM.COM> Message-ID: For your information. Appoligies if you've seen this before. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Darian Smith Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:26:24 -0800 Subject: Fwd: [Youth-outreach] Independence 2011 To: cabs-talk For your information ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Amy Phelps Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:01:22 -0500 Subject: [Youth-outreach] Independence 2011 To: Youth outreach projects Support List Spring is almost here, so it is time to start thinking about summer fun and Blind Industries and Services of Maryland Independence 2011! Last year Independence 2010 was a great success and this year it is going to be even better. Independence 2011 is a seven-week residential program where blind and low vision youth entering into the 10th, 11th, and 12th grades in the fall of 2011 will have the opportunity to learn the nonvisual skills of blindness from successful blind instructors. We will return to the campus of Towson University, where students will live in apartments with their blind adult instructors/mentors and learn how to manage their own apartment, cook, clean, grocery shop, manage money, wash clothes, to name just a few things. Not only will students of the seven-week residential program learn the skills of blindness through classes such as cane travel, Braille, computer/technology, and independent living (Home Ec.) but they are going to be able to gain that much needed resume builder - paid employment. With these economic times, who doesn't need a little extra spending money? Students will have the opportunity to work a total of 30-40 hours in the community during the last two weeks of the program. Independence 2011 is going to attend the national convention of the National Federation of the Blind in Orlando, FL and participate in the National Federation of the Blind Youth Slam and we can't forget spend a day having fun in Disney World. Then, there are the times that we explore Baltimore, Towson, visit our Nation's capital, attend an O's game, go swimming, check out a movie or two and we can't forget those evenings of playing cards until the wee hours of morning. Sound fun!?! You better believe it! Dates: June 19 - August 5, 2011 For more information about Independence 2011, feel free to email me at aphelps at bism.org and please forward this to youth, parents, teachers, and blindness professionals. Warm regards, Amy C. Phelps, CRC, NOMC Help sponsor our youth program activities Donate Check out information about our summer youth program: Independence 2011 Take the NCLB at BISM in Baltimore on March 26. For information: National Certification in Literary Braille Blind Industries and Services of Maryland 3345 Washington Blvd Baltimore, MD 21227 Phone: 410-737-2642 Mobile: 410-274-1647 Fax: 410-737-2689 Toll Free: 888-322-4567 E-mail: aphelps at bism.org "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 20:05:40 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:05:40 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Slate Contest In-Reply-To: <4d65b0be.0548960a.5e2e.4b48@mx.google.com> References: <4d65b0be.0548960a.5e2e.4b48@mx.google.com> Message-ID: For your information. appoligies for any repeat-posting. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Karen Anderson Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:13:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Slate Contest To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Hello NABSters, James Konechne from BISM has asked me to cerculate the following. Feel free to contact either him or me with any questions. Karen Anderson Hi all, My name is James Konechne. I'm the Braille instructor at Blind Industries and Services of Maryland's comprehensive adult blindness structured discovery training program. As a large component of my Braille curriculum, I teach our students how to write with the slate and stylus. A strategy I recently began utilizing to monitor my students' accuracy and speed with this skill has been to create a monthly contest within the student body. Not only does this give me the information I need to gage their progress, it also encourages a healthy dose of competition between the students. The contest consists of two components: a slate sprint and an endurance race. Each involves writing the alphabet repeatedly. For the slate sprint, the students write as fast as they can for 30 seconds. I count each four letters as a word and take a word off for every error that is made. The endurance race is similar in scoring and speed, with the exception of the student being timed for five minutes of constant writing. My students were trash talking lately and came up with the idea of having a friendly little competition among all adults currently learning how to write with the slate. They are ready and willing to take on any writer with the guts to join in on the contest!! If you want to get a piece of the action, time your students for both races and send me your results via e-mail. Then, let the trash talk begin!! Let's have a little fun and promote Braille writing at the same time! Official Rules: Contest writing must be done using a standard, 28-cell, four-line slate. Standard, heavy weight Braille paper must be used. Only one alphabet can be written per line. The clock must be allowed to continue to run while the slate is being moved to fresh paper since this is an essential component of writing. A Timing Example and Scoring: In the five minute endurance race, if, for example, a student writes five complete alphabets, they will have written a total of 30 words. If they make five errors, five words are subtracted bringing them down to a total of 25 total correct words. This is then divided by five to come up with a total of five words per minute. Call or e-mail with any questions. James K cell 4109250707 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From gpaikens at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 22:32:15 2011 From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:32:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar In-Reply-To: References: <4FCCFD54-3D53-4A97-9BC0-6F91B9E53D67@mac.com> <0A7921506D954F73BFB4CC89FBF1A30E@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, Perhaps they found the timing appropriate because of the major emphasis being put on education. The government has created major incentives for states to get up to scratch through the "Race to the top" money. Even though money is tight, the government has committed millions, if not billions to this project in the last year. Also, our congressmen mentioned that there is talk of renewing the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, which was what became No Child Left Behind in 2002. So, they might be onto something. As to the question of national standards, if I have paid attention in class, NCLB and IDEA primarily raised the standards for teachers and educational agencies, trying to bring a measure of needed accountability into the education process. They did not define standards for the content areas to say exactly what kids should learn. Recently states were asked to adopt a set of national content standards as part of Race to the Top. 48 states have chosen to adopt them. So, national standards for education are the "hip" thing, I just don't see the government offering such enticing incentives to states for Blind students, since we are such a small group. Hopefully this muddied the water even further. If you want to know more about any of the stuff I mentioned, a quick google search or wikipedia is a great resource for cursory info. -Greg On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:14 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Oh, I hope no one mentioned No Child Left Untested, I mean, Behind, as part > of their pitch to congressional staffers. Even a Republican such as me > knows that law was more aspiration than anything else. I'm all in favor of > the NFB's approach. I'm curious as to why this was not promoted back when > IDEA was reauthorized though. In the current climate of battles over the > federal budget, this does not seem to be the most prudent time to create > another governmental body. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > No George. The fedederal Department of education has a hand in some > guidelines. > I've not looked into it and do not work for DOE so I do not know what role > the federal government plays but it plays some role. > The No Child Left behind Act mandated standardized testing and strengthened > the federal government role. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Paez > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:15 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar > > Aren't all education standards directed by the states? > > > On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > >> Hi Joe and all, >> >> I don't know the answers to the questions asked about the technology >> bill, but the points raised all seem reasonable to me. If you have >> questions about the details of the legislation, perhaps a call to >> Jesse Hartle at the national center could be useful. I think Jesse >> will have the most accurate information about the NFB's positions and >> he is a very reasonable guy who won't object to debate or dissenting >> opinions. >> >> Regarding the education bill, the question I would ask is: To what >> extent is education of sighted children governed by national standards >> vs. state standards? I don't fully know the answer to that question >> either, as I am far from expert about the balances of power between >> state and federal legislatures. However, I would submit that to the >> extent teachers of sighted children are held accountable to national >> standards, blind children should be as well. We do know that sighted >> children are subjected to lots of national testing, and although blind >> children often have to take the tests, our scores aren't analyzed. >> While I have mixed feelings about the utility of national standardized >> tests, I think it's crucial that we be held to the same performance >> standards as our sighted peers, be they shaped by state or national >> mandates. The truth, which hundreds of us have demonstrated, is that >> blindness by itself has no impact on one's intelligence or academic >> potential. Unfortunately a good percentage of blind children are >> behind the curve even if they have no intellectual disabilities, but >> in the vast majority of cases, this can be attributed to a lack of >> access to materials, or a lack of opportunity to learn essential >> literacy and math skills. If clear performance standards are set and >> blind children are not meeting them, the responsibility must be put >> upon the teachers and the school to provide the needed access and >> learning opportunities. I see no reason why states' autonomy is more >> important for the education of blind children than it is for the >> education of children in general. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/22/11, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> I too support the legislation. Yet, I think it was a mistake not to join >>> the coalition surrounding the 21st Century bill. I think we could have >>> included more of the provisions in that successful legislation had we >>> been a >>> part of the group. If this bill gets anywhere, I'll be a monkey's uncle, >>> but I think this is going to go the way of Social Security caps. Net >>> neutrality, privacy and rural broadband would appear to be higher on the >>> totem pole to leave much room for this type of legislation. It's not >>> about >>> being anti-Federation. It's about pointing out practical concerns, and >>> it's >>> always bugged me that we've mostly gone onto the Hill without a concrete >>> plan or even specific proposed language to support our cases. I also >>> support the second priority about educational standards, but come on, >>> it's >>> as if we have the NFB world and then the rest of reality... >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Bridgit Pollpeter >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:00 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington Seminar >>> >>> Joe and others, >>> >>> I agree with your point about the Technology Bill of Rights. In theory >>> it is great, but how practical is it? >>> >>> We certainly have rights and should have equal access to technology, but >>> shouldn't everyone then? This legislation creates a huge mountain when >>> you begin to think about all the people who can not use current >>> technology with traditional means. Is it fair to enforce accessibility >>> for one group, but exclude others? Blind people are not the only group >>> who require alternative means to technology. >>> >>> Also, I understand the legislation would allow company's to create their >>> own means to alternative access, and we are not asking for the most >>> expensive route, or that everything must be audio. But this is a huge >>> undertaking when you think about it. Are we requesting literally >>> everything be made with accessible features out of the package? >>> >>> For instance, most microwaves are not readily accessible, but I placed >>> Braille labels on my microwave after purchasing it. Same with the oven >>> and washing machine. It did not require much work to do this. >>> >>> I am aware that more and more technology is developed with flat touch >>> screens replacing dials and buttons, and this includes appliances like >>> the ones mentioned above. I recently attempted to purchase a hand >>> mixer, but the speeds were on a touch pad. I now need to see one in >>> person to determine how difficult it may be to use. >>> >>> But even simple alternative methods may take years before all technology >>> would meet the standards. Or are we just talking about mainstream >>> technology like airport kiosk and mobile phones and elevators, etc. >>> >>> Anyway, I question the practicality of this Bill. Without knowing the >>> specific language, I wonder to what extent we are looking at here. >>> >>> I have only ever been told that the bill is meant to give equal access >>> to current and future technology, and it allows groups to develop their >>> own accessibility, but what are the specifics? What role will the >>> Federation play? Is there a timeline? >>> >>> Before anyone accuses me of being anti-Federation, *smile* let me say >>> that I support this bill, and it would be great to have instant access >>> to technology, but I just wonder how feasible this is. >>> >>> Bridgit >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:31:38 -0500 >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Any thoughts on Washington seminar? >>> Message-ID: <629B16A89EE441B6B974CB1DC40C0752 at Rufus> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> A couple questions: >>> >>> 1. Is the NFB planning on doing anything to reinforce or enhance the >>> 21st Century Accessibility Act? I would have thought much of what is >>> requested in the Technology Bill of Rights can already be covered in the >>> former. >>> >>> 2. How will the NFB battle states' rights mentality when it comes to >>> setting this national standard? I think it's a great idea in theory, >>> but how feasible is it for states to give up their flexibility in favor >>> of a national benchmark? >>> >>> I think the third legislative priority is an excellent one. I'm already >>> an ethnic minority and can enjoy the tax benefits of owning a business, >>> but hopefully the expansion of coverage to disabilities will motivate >>> more people to venture out and start their own operations. >>> >>> Thanks for any information on the first two points. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > il.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Feb 25 09:26:44 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:26:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Up Dates on the Tours for National Convention in Orlando Message-ID: >From: "cheryl echevarria" >To: "david andrews" >Subject: Up Dates on the Tours for National Convention in Orlando >Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:24:33 -0500 > >Dear Fellow Federationists: > >A number of people have been contacting me for another day besides >the 9th of July. > >We will work on buses and tickets also for the 2nd. If you have a >large group of 10 or more and are coming in earlier then the 2nd or >staying later then the 9th, please let us know, if there is enough >interest we will add another bus or your own group as well, but we >need to hear from you. > >Please remember to order your seats on the bus first. That is $20.00 >per person, $10 per person deposit is due no later than May 1st, and >final payment is due no later than June 1st, 2011. > >I will be sending information to David Andrews, Dan Hicks and Gary >Wunder for posting in the Braille Monitor and on the talk lists. > >So remember to contact myself, Cheryl Echevarria, my contact is >listed below or Maurice Shackelford, which his information is also >listed below. Please remember we are on Eastern Time as well. > >The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! > >Cheryl Echevarria >http://www.Echevarriatravel.com >1-866-580-5574 or 631-456-5394 >reservations at echevarriatravel.com > >Maurice Shackelford >http://peachtreetravel.net/ >1-888-389-2723 >reservations at peachtreetravel.net > From cathy at blindtraining.com Fri Feb 25 09:47:00 2011 From: cathy at blindtraining.com (CathyAnne) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 03:47:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 Message-ID: I'm pleased to announce the release of our latest textbook. An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 is a comprehensive exploration of Word 2010 with JAWS or Window-Eyes. It takes readers from the basics of Word 2010 through some of the more advanced features such as Macros, Forms, and Mail Merge. This textbook is available for sale from Access Technology Institute and is available for immediate download. To review the table of contents and purchase your digital download textbook, please visit: http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm. CathyAnne --- CathyAnne Murtha cathy at blindtraining.com Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha Yahoo IM: CathyAnneMurtha Access Technology Institute www.blindtraining.com Phone: (520) 303-5885 FAX: (800) 986-6198 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ News mailing list News at lists.blindtraining.com http://lists.blindtraining.com/listinfo.cgi/news-blindtraining.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 19:29:55 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 14:29:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let me ask a question, as I think it's important for students. How user friendly is Jaws and Office 2010? I've been told to avoid Office 2010 by someone and to stay with office 2007. Thoughts anyone? On 2/25/11, CathyAnne wrote: > I'm pleased to announce the release of our latest textbook. > > > > An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 is a comprehensive exploration of Word > 2010 with JAWS or Window-Eyes. It takes readers from the basics of Word > 2010 through some of the more advanced features such as Macros, Forms, and > Mail Merge. > > > > This textbook is available for sale from Access Technology Institute and is > available for immediate download. To review the table of contents and > purchase your digital download textbook, please visit: > http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm. > > > > CathyAnne > > > > > > --- > > CathyAnne Murtha > > cathy at blindtraining.com > > Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha > > Yahoo IM: CathyAnneMurtha > > > > Access Technology Institute > > www.blindtraining.com > > Phone: (520) 303-5885 > > FAX: (800) 986-6198 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > _______________________________________________ > News mailing list > News at lists.blindtraining.com > http://lists.blindtraining.com/listinfo.cgi/news-blindtraining.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Fri Feb 25 19:35:00 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:35:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jaws works better with the 2011 version. That's what I use. Blessings, Joshua On 2/25/11, David Dunphy wrote: > Let me ask a question, as I think it's important for students. > How user friendly is Jaws and Office 2010? I've been told to avoid > Office 2010 by someone and to stay with office 2007. > Thoughts anyone? > > On 2/25/11, CathyAnne wrote: >> I'm pleased to announce the release of our latest textbook. >> >> >> >> An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 is a comprehensive exploration of >> Word >> 2010 with JAWS or Window-Eyes. It takes readers from the basics of Word >> 2010 through some of the more advanced features such as Macros, Forms, and >> Mail Merge. >> >> >> >> This textbook is available for sale from Access Technology Institute and >> is >> available for immediate download. To review the table of contents and >> purchase your digital download textbook, please visit: >> http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm. >> >> >> >> CathyAnne >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> CathyAnne Murtha >> >> cathy at blindtraining.com >> >> Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha >> >> Yahoo IM: CathyAnneMurtha >> >> >> >> Access Technology Institute >> >> www.blindtraining.com >> >> Phone: (520) 303-5885 >> >> FAX: (800) 986-6198 >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> News mailing list >> News at lists.blindtraining.com >> http://lists.blindtraining.com/listinfo.cgi/news-blindtraining.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 21:51:36 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 13:51:36 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Rooms Message-ID: Hey all, So I've heard that rooms are filling up rather quickly for national convention. If you are trying to get in before the 2nd, that's going to be nearly impossible, but if on or after the2nd, you should be fine. What have people found when registering? any facts for all of those convention loving folk? Darian -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. But only you can have the drive." From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 22:00:23 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 15:00:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] accessible Statistics software program? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It sounds like newer versions of SPSS are accessible with JAWS. I used SPSS 15 with JAWS 8.0 and wasn't able to access the data editor, but I was able to work around this by editing data in Excel and importing it into SPSS just before analysis. I now use SAS for all my data analysis. It is fully accessible, but it is command-driven, so you need to be taught what the commands are. It's pretty easy once you understand the general command structure. If anyone is interested in learning to use SAS, write me off-list. Good luck! Arielle On 2/22/11, Courtney Stover wrote: > Mary; > > You're more than welcome. I'm starting a statistics class next year, > so your original post is going to come in extremely handy. > Courtney > > On 2/22/11, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> Hi Serena and Courtney! >> Courtney thanks for posting that, I was about to give the same speech. >> lol. Serena if you want, send me your phone number off list, o call >> me, my cell is in the signature. we can talk about it more. >> Thanks! >> >> >> On 2/22/11, Courtney Stover wrote: >>> Serena, >>> >>> This comes from a post by Mary Fernandez on this topic: >>> >>> Hi Serena, >>> Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And it is >>> accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right person in the >>> tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did absolutely >>> everything independently. However, it is a complex software even for >>> sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just work with a >>> reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same computer, and >>> get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will be using >>> this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar with it. >>> I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's something you're >>> interested in. >>> Good luck! >>> Sincerely >>> >>> The java bridge that was discussed can be found here: >>> >>> >>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/index-jsp-136191.html >>> Hopefully, this will prove useful. >>> Courtney >>> >>> >>> On 2/22/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >>>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I remember from you guys that SPSS isn't accessible with Jaws. I have >>>> to >>>> take Stats this summer as a requirement for grad school. Rutgers has an >>>> online course that's pass fail! **smile!** Only thing is, SPSS is >>>> required. >>>> The prof. asked me if there is any alternative software program that's >>>> accessible with Jaws I can use, instead. Anybody know? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> President: Georgia Association of Blind Students >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> >> "It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much >> rather you weren't doing it." >> Terry Pratchett >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dstrick1 at roadrunner.com Sat Feb 26 03:07:44 2011 From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com (dstrick1 at roadrunner.com) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 3:07:44 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110226030744.3BU29.114504.root@cdptpa-web13-z02> There is no office 2011 for windows. it is only 2010 and it works fine with jaws v 11 or 12.. ---- Joshua Lester wrote: > Jaws works better with the 2011 version. That's what I use. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/25/11, David Dunphy wrote: > > Let me ask a question, as I think it's important for students. > > How user friendly is Jaws and Office 2010? I've been told to avoid > > Office 2010 by someone and to stay with office 2007. > > Thoughts anyone? > > > > On 2/25/11, CathyAnne wrote: > >> I'm pleased to announce the release of our latest textbook. > >> > >> > >> > >> An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 is a comprehensive exploration of > >> Word > >> 2010 with JAWS or Window-Eyes. It takes readers from the basics of Word > >> 2010 through some of the more advanced features such as Macros, Forms, and > >> Mail Merge. > >> > >> > >> > >> This textbook is available for sale from Access Technology Institute and > >> is > >> available for immediate download. To review the table of contents and > >> purchase your digital download textbook, please visit: > >> http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm. > >> > >> > >> > >> CathyAnne > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- > >> > >> CathyAnne Murtha > >> > >> cathy at blindtraining.com > >> > >> Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha > >> > >> Yahoo IM: CathyAnneMurtha > >> > >> > >> > >> Access Technology Institute > >> > >> www.blindtraining.com > >> > >> Phone: (520) 303-5885 > >> > >> FAX: (800) 986-6198 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> News mailing list > >> News at lists.blindtraining.com > >> http://lists.blindtraining.com/listinfo.cgi/news-blindtraining.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com From mcikeyc at aol.com Sat Feb 26 21:47:56 2011 From: mcikeyc at aol.com (Michelle Clark) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 16:47:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Rooms Message-ID: <201102262147.p1QLlvqW010781@imr-db01.mx.aol.com> One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one that if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! Michelle From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sat Feb 26 21:58:32 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:58:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Rooms In-Reply-To: <201102262147.p1QLlvqW010781@imr-db01.mx.aol.com> References: <201102262147.p1QLlvqW010781@imr-db01.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi, Michelle. I'm Joshua Lester. I haven't heard from you in a while. Glad to know you're on this list! Private Message in coming! Blessings, joshua On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: > One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are > getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one that > if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might > find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bfs1206 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 00:31:40 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:31:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College Message-ID: Hello NABS Members, My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school and I never use it. Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. Thank You Brianna On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: > One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are > getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one that > if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might > find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 00:41:32 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:41:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2862405E36D94666A8978982CC3882BF@AnjelinaPC> Hi Brianna, I'm saddened to hear a few Braille instructors would see Braille as being obsolete. Can you imagine the revolt if a sighted student had all print materials removed from their education? If you can justify a display or embosser definitely go for it. Audio feedback is an option, but it can't replace the benefits of Braille. Reading a textbook with JAWS or in audio format will not automatically give you the spelling and punctuation you get with Braille. Just my thoughts -----Original Message----- From: Brianna Scerenscko Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College Hello NABS Members, My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school and I never use it. Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. Thank You Brianna On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: > One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are > getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one > that > if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might > find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Feb 27 00:52:27 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:52:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society Message-ID: <20110227005227.6083.47762@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Darian, You're asking a great, yet complicated, question. I've taken a lot of time to think these issues through, and i've come to some pretty important decisions. I'm attaching some files to this message for anyone to read. They are papers I've produced for school, so they are written for scholars. Still though, I think you all can get something out of them as the process I went through helped me find a lot of peace. The first is a narrative. Although it's written as though it happened to me, it's actually a composit of situations I've been in and/or witnessed as other blind people managed them. The second three are theoretical in nature: they explain conflict processes as they relate to communications between the blind and sighted. The final paper is kind of an agrogate of the last three I just mensioned with an additional element called Honor. One more concept needs to be added before you all start picking apart my work. *grin* That is the notion that it is always okay to say no to a sighted person who wants to be educated or who wants to help. As is true with any other request anyone might be presented with, we as humans weigh the necessity of complying to that request based on a number of factors including how well we know a person, any past exchanges we've had that might make it worthwhile to make yet another exchange, the amount of power each of you have in the situation, whether or not you want something from that person, etc. All of my work assumes that dealing with blindness issues is no different than dealing with other issues all people face, just in a different and much more potent context. So here you go folks. Happy reading if you are so interested. These are just my thought processes backed by what I larned during my senior year of undergraduate school regarding conflict and intercultural processes as they relate to blindness. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi all, > So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can translate > into society. For example, socializing, we want to be considered as > "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general > blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people > don't understand something and want to know what we do. How do > people deal with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last > thing you want to hear is something related to blindness, but the > grammys were on, and you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain > pop star finally didn't win something *smile*. > Or, you have the weel-meaning person trying to direct you somewhere, > when you've made it clear that you do not require said assistance? > How do you handle this without getting fairly annoyed and/or taking > it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk about > the importance of educating the public, yet the equil importance of > stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How does > one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life and > keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? > Darian > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. > But only you can have the drive." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Interpersonal Conflict Narrative Styles and Systems.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 19816 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: A SAD Interaction Draft 4.doc Type: application/msword Size: 37376 bytes Desc: not available URL: From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Feb 27 01:08:48 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:08:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <593226F34EE748BC95A51A102DE43C8C@SerenaPC> Hi Briana, Your Braille teachers who said Braille is opsalete and that you'll mostly rely on audio formats are half right and half wrong. If you have a subscription to Bookshare or can get one, you can download bookshare books to your BrailleNote, if you have one of those. Bookshare subscriptions are free for students! It is true that there are not that many books in hard copy Braille in college, so, maybe, that's what your Braille teachers meant. They really shouldn't have said it that way! As far as a Braille embosser,if you didn't use it in high school, you probably won't need it much in college. Can't you simply bring the one you used in high school with you to college? If you have to pick what to ask your Commission for the Blind to buy for you, I strongly suggest a BrailleNote, rather than a Braille embosser. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brianna Scerenscko Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College Hello NABS Members, My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school and I never use it. Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. Thank You Brianna On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: > One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are > getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one that > if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might > find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Sun Feb 27 01:09:19 2011 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:09:19 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Rooms Message-ID: <005201cbd61a$f6530200$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening everyone, I'm sure Dr. Maurer and Mrs. Jernigan are on top of the room situation. I expect that we'll be using an overflow hotel if the Rosen Shingle Creek sells out. My suggestion is to watch The Braille Monitor and the presidential releases for further information concerning convention hotel rooms. Peter Donahue "Will you come and awake our lost land from its slumber And her fetters we'll break, links that long are encumbered. And the air will resound with hosannas to greet you On the shore will be found gallant Irishmen to greet you." Will You Come to the Bower Traditional Irish Folk Song From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Feb 27 01:26:12 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:26:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Message-ID: <20110227012612.6532.5774@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Kirt and List, Has anyone heard of the hierarchy of needs? Basically, the principle states that we have basic needs as human beings, and that we'll work on meeting "lower order needs" first before meeting "higher order needs." >From that perspective, it is possible that blind people (and any other minority for that matter) focus on issues related to their minority status because they are working on fulfilling a need that has not yet been met and that such individuals won't be able to move up the needs ladder until their immediate needs are met. In this context, there is a need in the hierarchy called "esteem needs" and "need for belonging." I bet that people are talking at length regarding blindness issues because, at the moment, it meets their belonging needs. Lots of these people haven't had access to people just like them. They are also frustrated with a society that keeps them out, so they talk about it in order to repair the wounds done to their self-esteem and self-concept/self-efficacy. Once those needs have been met, then it's a lot easier to talk about other things of varying depth. Just my thoughts. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > To all, > First, I'm on this list. I'm not consciously avoiding anything > blindness-related. > And, yes, it's normal and ok for blind people to sometimes talk > about blindness. I get that. (heck, I feel perfectly fine talking > about blindness on this list and with my blind friends) But it > becomes a real problem when you never, or hardly ever, talk about > anything else. I have friends who, when I'm with them, only talk > about blindness, only talk about assistive technology, braille, canes, > NFB/ACB philosophy, educating sighted people about blindness, etc. > It's not that those things are bad to talk about...they're necessary > and good and important. But it's equally as important, maybe even > more so, to become well-rounded individuals who can relate and > participate in the sighted world on terms of equality. And most of my > blind friends, unfortunately, do not have that balance. I can relate > perfectly to what Jerardo is saying. > Best, > Kirt > On 2/17/11, Darian Smith wrote: >> On the topic of blind people in blindness-related conversation: I >> believe that's not at all uncommon or unreasonable. Ifyou are around >> blind friends and something blindness related comes up, then it comes >> up. It's normal for any ethnic group to have conversations of or >> relating to their culture or ethnicity. Can those conversations run >> a little long and be overkill, sure they can. And while I could >> guess that we've gotten caught up in a little more "blindness talk" >> than we might expect every once in a while, I am not too sure how this >> translates into how we deal with the sighted community's perceptions >> of us, yet respect where we as a person/people are at the time? We >> may know the truth about blindness, but does that mmean that we need >> to walk around with nfb litriture in our back pack ready to wirl >> around with something in hand in responce to "why do you use that >> stick?" or, "you must be really good at music"? Doesn't that >> underscore why we are different more than equil? >> just some thoughts. >> Respectfully, >> Darian >> On 2/17/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: >>> Bridgit, >>> Great essay. I really enjoyed reading it. I think it definitely echos >>> the way we all feel. >>> Bernadetta P. >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >> But only you can have the drive." >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 02:05:53 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:05:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <20110227012612.6532.5774@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> References: <20110227012612.6532.5774@domU-12-31-38-07-3C-65.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Jedi, Very, very good point. And I think I can at least understand, I've had many blind friends and still do. But as I'm growing up and going to college, I can't help but feel less and less of a pull towards the blindness subculture. Or, putting it better, I feel stronger pulls towards other subcultures. Maybe that's just me. But I found that I'm more similar to some of my friends who happen to be sighted than I am to most blind people I know. Does that make sense at all? Sincerely, Kirt On 2/26/11, Jedi wrote: > Kirt and List, > > Has anyone heard of the hierarchy of needs? Basically, the principle > states that we have basic needs as human beings, and that we'll work on > meeting "lower order needs" first before meeting "higher order needs." > > >From that perspective, it is possible that blind people (and any other > minority for that matter) focus on issues related to their minority > status because they are working on fulfilling a need that has not yet > been met and that such individuals won't be able to move up the needs > ladder until their immediate needs are met. In this context, there is a > need in the hierarchy called "esteem needs" and "need for belonging." I > bet that people are talking at length regarding blindness issues > because, at the moment, it meets their belonging needs. Lots of these > people haven't had access to people just like them. They are also > frustrated with a society that keeps them out, so they talk about it in > order to repair the wounds done to their self-esteem and > self-concept/self-efficacy. Once those needs have been met, then it's a > lot easier to talk about other things of varying depth. Just my thoughts. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> To all, >> First, I'm on this list. I'm not consciously avoiding anything >> blindness-related. >> And, yes, it's normal and ok for blind people to sometimes talk >> about blindness. I get that. (heck, I feel perfectly fine talking >> about blindness on this list and with my blind friends) But it >> becomes a real problem when you never, or hardly ever, talk about >> anything else. I have friends who, when I'm with them, only talk >> about blindness, only talk about assistive technology, braille, canes, >> NFB/ACB philosophy, educating sighted people about blindness, etc. >> It's not that those things are bad to talk about...they're necessary >> and good and important. But it's equally as important, maybe even >> more so, to become well-rounded individuals who can relate and >> participate in the sighted world on terms of equality. And most of my >> blind friends, unfortunately, do not have that balance. I can relate >> perfectly to what Jerardo is saying. >> Best, >> Kirt > >> On 2/17/11, Darian Smith wrote: >>> On the topic of blind people in blindness-related conversation: I >>> believe that's not at all uncommon or unreasonable. Ifyou are around >>> blind friends and something blindness related comes up, then it comes >>> up. It's normal for any ethnic group to have conversations of or >>> relating to their culture or ethnicity. Can those conversations run >>> a little long and be overkill, sure they can. And while I could >>> guess that we've gotten caught up in a little more "blindness talk" >>> than we might expect every once in a while, I am not too sure how this >>> translates into how we deal with the sighted community's perceptions >>> of us, yet respect where we as a person/people are at the time? We >>> may know the truth about blindness, but does that mmean that we need >>> to walk around with nfb litriture in our back pack ready to wirl >>> around with something in hand in responce to "why do you use that >>> stick?" or, "you must be really good at music"? Doesn't that >>> underscore why we are different more than equil? >>> just some thoughts. > >>> Respectfully, >>> Darian > >>> On 2/17/11, Bernadetta Pracon wrote: >>>> Bridgit, >>>> Great essay. I really enjoyed reading it. I think it definitely echos >>>> the way we all feel. > >>>> Bernadetta P. > >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > >>> -- >>> Darian Smith >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > >>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. >>> But only you can have the drive." > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 27 02:36:42 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:36:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Rooms In-Reply-To: <201102262147.p1QLlvqW010781@imr-db01.mx.aol.com> References: <201102262147.p1QLlvqW010781@imr-db01.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: <3C5E45894EA3435BA8CE3C61B256A45B@OwnerPC> Michelle, Given there are several months til convention, I would hope other arrangements are being made should the hotel be booked. Most conventions have an overflow hotel and perhaps the organizers including Dr. Maurer will arrange that. I agree you shouldn't wait to the last minute to book a room, but we have over four months and some people may not know if they can come yet. Maybe some need to take off work and need permission from their supervisor; maybe family engagements come up. So given that some may have no choice but to book at a later date, I do hope they have an overflow hotel. -----Original Message----- From: Michelle Clark Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 4:47 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Rooms One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one that if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! Michelle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 27 02:55:57 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:55:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brianna, Hi, well I don't agree with the obsolete statement. Its true that given the large amount of reading and new textbooks you have in college, audio formats will be your primary way of reading and obtaining information. You'll read slides/handouts from professors. You'll read your texts in audio format through RFB and/or electronic text. But you will certainly need braille and will use it daily, especially if you used braille to study in high school! Some are already auditory learners; others like me used braille a lot in public school and still do! You need a braille notetaker with a braille display! This way you can take notes and read them. As others have said, you can also download books and read them that way. Your english classes and perhaps history courses may require reading novels or parts of them. These novels may be available online. You can then download them to the computer and then to a thumb drive or SD card so you can put that into your notetaker and read. For instance using bookshare or web Braille from NLS. I had to read the Prince for history; I had to read some classics and novels for english including Death of a Salesman, The Glass Manassury, and To Kill a Mocking bird. Although I read them on audio format I'm sure they are also available in braille. As to the question of the embosser, that is up to you. Will you want to have hard copy braille of notes or handouts? Are you one who likes to see braille and read it down the page rather than linearly on a display? I have an old embosser; we did not get it through the agency though; I think we bought it used; I can;'t remember how my family got it for me. I use it sometimes; but use the display more. I find the embossed braille helpful to study particular concepts having odd spelled names or something difficult. Also to study something like Grammar in english or another language, I need braille and particularly hard copy braille! Audio just is not real helpful. So when you justify equipment, definitely have a way to access braille whether it be a display on your notetaker or a display hooked to a laptop or desktop. You may or may not need the embosser. But if you do not get that, you should have a braille writer, I mean the old fashioned perkins brailler! I say this because there will be some times where you need hard copy braille. Two instances: 1. you do a presentation and need notes in a speech class or something else. 2. You need to read something in class or you need to memorize something for an acting class or something. You'll want something hard copy then. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brianna Scerenscko Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College Hello NABS Members, My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school and I never use it. Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. Thank You Brianna On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: > One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are > getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one > that > if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might > find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 27 03:09:21 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:09:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Right on, Ashley! I don't like the Perkins Brailler, though. It makes too much noise, and disturbs my sighted counterparts in college. I'm looking forward to getting that new Brailler, that I was talking about in a previous thread. Brianna, this Brailler I'm referring to is lighter, and makes less racket! Best of all, you can plug it into a computer, and print out your work, so you can have the hard copy Braille, that you did, plus the print to give to your professor. Contact David Pillisher, (the one that has invented this Brailler.) Blessings, Joshua On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Brianna, > Hi, well I don't agree with the obsolete statement. > Its true that given the large amount of reading and new textbooks you have > in college, > audio formats will be your primary way of reading and obtaining information. > You'll read slides/handouts from professors. You'll read your texts in audio > format through RFB and/or electronic text. > > But you will certainly need braille and will use it daily, especially if you > used braille to study in high school! Some are already auditory learners; > others like me used braille a lot in public school and still do! > You need a braille notetaker with a braille display! This way you can take > notes and read them. > As others have said, you can also download books and read them that way. > Your english classes and perhaps history courses may require reading novels > or parts of them. > These novels may be available online. You can then download them to the > computer and then to a thumb drive or SD card so you can put that into your > notetaker and read. > For instance using bookshare or web Braille from NLS. > I had to read the Prince for history; I had to read some classics and novels > for english including Death of a Salesman, The Glass Manassury, and To Kill > a Mocking bird. > Although I read them on audio format I'm sure they are also available in > braille. > > As to the question of the embosser, that is up to you. > Will you want to have hard copy braille of notes or handouts? > Are you one who likes to see braille and read it down the page rather than > linearly on a display? > > I have an old embosser; we did not get it through the agency though; I think > we bought it used; I can;'t remember how my family got it for me. > I use it sometimes; but use the display more. > I find the embossed braille helpful to study particular concepts having odd > spelled names or something difficult. > Also to study something like Grammar in english or another language, I need > braille and particularly hard copy braille! > Audio just is not real helpful. > > So when you justify equipment, definitely have a way to access braille > whether it be a display on your notetaker or a display hooked to a laptop or > desktop. > You may or may not need the embosser. But if you do not get that, you > should have a braille writer, I mean the old fashioned perkins brailler! > I say this because there will be some times where you need hard copy > braille. > Two instances: > 1. you do a presentation and need notes in a speech class or something else. > 2. You need to read something in class or you need to memorize something for > an acting class or something. > You'll want something hard copy then. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brianna Scerenscko > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College > > Hello NABS Members, > My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am > working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need > for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know > and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that > you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that > I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school > and I never use it. > Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. > Thank You > Brianna > > > On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: >> One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are >> getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one >> that >> if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might >> find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bfs1206 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 03:20:19 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:20:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks everyone. On 2/26/11, Joshua Lester wrote: > Right on, Ashley! I don't like the Perkins Brailler, though. It makes > too much noise, and disturbs my sighted counterparts in college. I'm > looking forward to getting that new Brailler, that I was talking about > in a previous thread. Brianna, this Brailler I'm referring to is > lighter, and makes less racket! Best of all, you can plug it into a > computer, and print out your work, so you can have the hard copy > Braille, that you did, plus the print to give to your professor. > Contact David Pillisher, (the one that has invented this Brailler.) > Blessings, Joshua > > On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Brianna, >> Hi, well I don't agree with the obsolete statement. >> Its true that given the large amount of reading and new textbooks you have >> in college, >> audio formats will be your primary way of reading and obtaining >> information. >> You'll read slides/handouts from professors. You'll read your texts in >> audio >> format through RFB and/or electronic text. >> >> But you will certainly need braille and will use it daily, especially if >> you >> used braille to study in high school! Some are already auditory learners; >> others like me used braille a lot in public school and still do! >> You need a braille notetaker with a braille display! This way you can >> take >> notes and read them. >> As others have said, you can also download books and read them that way. >> Your english classes and perhaps history courses may require reading >> novels >> or parts of them. >> These novels may be available online. You can then download them to the >> computer and then to a thumb drive or SD card so you can put that into >> your >> notetaker and read. >> For instance using bookshare or web Braille from NLS. >> I had to read the Prince for history; I had to read some classics and >> novels >> for english including Death of a Salesman, The Glass Manassury, and To >> Kill >> a Mocking bird. >> Although I read them on audio format I'm sure they are also available in >> braille. >> >> As to the question of the embosser, that is up to you. >> Will you want to have hard copy braille of notes or handouts? >> Are you one who likes to see braille and read it down the page rather than >> linearly on a display? >> >> I have an old embosser; we did not get it through the agency though; I >> think >> we bought it used; I can;'t remember how my family got it for me. >> I use it sometimes; but use the display more. >> I find the embossed braille helpful to study particular concepts having >> odd >> spelled names or something difficult. >> Also to study something like Grammar in english or another language, I >> need >> braille and particularly hard copy braille! >> Audio just is not real helpful. >> >> So when you justify equipment, definitely have a way to access braille >> whether it be a display on your notetaker or a display hooked to a laptop >> or >> desktop. >> You may or may not need the embosser. But if you do not get that, you >> should have a braille writer, I mean the old fashioned perkins brailler! >> I say this because there will be some times where you need hard copy >> braille. >> Two instances: >> 1. you do a presentation and need notes in a speech class or something >> else. >> 2. You need to read something in class or you need to memorize something >> for >> an acting class or something. >> You'll want something hard copy then. >> >> Ashley >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brianna Scerenscko >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College >> >> Hello NABS Members, >> My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am >> working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need >> for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know >> and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that >> you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that >> I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school >> and I never use it. >> Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. >> Thank You >> Brianna >> >> >> On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: >>> One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are >>> getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one >>> that >>> if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might >>> find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! >>> >>> >>> >>> Michelle >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sun Feb 27 03:26:05 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:26:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Then you are a man ahead of his times, as there is no 2011 version of Office. Dave At 01:35 PM 2/25/2011, you wrote: >Jaws works better with the 2011 version. That's what I use. >Blessings, Joshua > >On 2/25/11, David Dunphy wrote: > > Let me ask a question, as I think it's important for students. > > How user friendly is Jaws and Office 2010? I've been told to avoid > > Office 2010 by someone and to stay with office 2007. > > Thoughts anyone? > > > > On 2/25/11, CathyAnne wrote: > >> I'm pleased to announce the release of our latest textbook. > >> > >> > >> > >> An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 is a comprehensive exploration of > >> Word > >> 2010 with JAWS or Window-Eyes. It takes readers from the basics of Word > >> 2010 through some of the more advanced features such as Macros, Forms, and > >> Mail Merge. > >> > >> > >> > >> This textbook is available for sale from Access Technology Institute and > >> is > >> available for immediate download. To review the table of contents and > >> purchase your digital download textbook, please visit: > >> http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm. > >> > >> > >> > >> CathyAnne > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- > >> > >> CathyAnne Murtha > >> > >> cathy at blindtraining.com > >> > >> Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha > >> > >> Yahoo IM: CathyAnneMurtha > >> > >> > >> > >> Access Technology Institute > >> > >> www.blindtraining.com > >> > >> Phone: (520) 303-5885 > >> > >> FAX: (800) 986-6198 > >> > >> From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 27 03:56:04 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 19:56:04 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College References: Message-ID: <9FE374F3AED04A92B925CE3D96E5CBF3@stanford.edu> The embosser issue is a personal choice, but I definitely agree that, if you do not have an embosser, you at least need to have a Perkins or other Braille writer. I have an embosser, but, do to space, I opted not to bring it to college with me this year, but I did bring my Perkins. My safety net, should I ever need to use an embosser, is that I can ask the DRC to emboss something for me, which I have not had to do, as I do not use hardcopy Braille that much, with the major exception being tactile graphics. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brianna Scerenscko" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College > Thanks everyone. > > On 2/26/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >> Right on, Ashley! I don't like the Perkins Brailler, though. It makes >> too much noise, and disturbs my sighted counterparts in college. I'm >> looking forward to getting that new Brailler, that I was talking about >> in a previous thread. Brianna, this Brailler I'm referring to is >> lighter, and makes less racket! Best of all, you can plug it into a >> computer, and print out your work, so you can have the hard copy >> Braille, that you did, plus the print to give to your professor. >> Contact David Pillisher, (the one that has invented this Brailler.) >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Brianna, >>> Hi, well I don't agree with the obsolete statement. >>> Its true that given the large amount of reading and new textbooks you >>> have >>> in college, >>> audio formats will be your primary way of reading and obtaining >>> information. >>> You'll read slides/handouts from professors. You'll read your texts in >>> audio >>> format through RFB and/or electronic text. >>> >>> But you will certainly need braille and will use it daily, especially if >>> you >>> used braille to study in high school! Some are already auditory >>> learners; >>> others like me used braille a lot in public school and still do! >>> You need a braille notetaker with a braille display! This way you can >>> take >>> notes and read them. >>> As others have said, you can also download books and read them that way. >>> Your english classes and perhaps history courses may require reading >>> novels >>> or parts of them. >>> These novels may be available online. You can then download them to the >>> computer and then to a thumb drive or SD card so you can put that into >>> your >>> notetaker and read. >>> For instance using bookshare or web Braille from NLS. >>> I had to read the Prince for history; I had to read some classics and >>> novels >>> for english including Death of a Salesman, The Glass Manassury, and To >>> Kill >>> a Mocking bird. >>> Although I read them on audio format I'm sure they are also available in >>> braille. >>> >>> As to the question of the embosser, that is up to you. >>> Will you want to have hard copy braille of notes or handouts? >>> Are you one who likes to see braille and read it down the page rather >>> than >>> linearly on a display? >>> >>> I have an old embosser; we did not get it through the agency though; I >>> think >>> we bought it used; I can;'t remember how my family got it for me. >>> I use it sometimes; but use the display more. >>> I find the embossed braille helpful to study particular concepts having >>> odd >>> spelled names or something difficult. >>> Also to study something like Grammar in english or another language, I >>> need >>> braille and particularly hard copy braille! >>> Audio just is not real helpful. >>> >>> So when you justify equipment, definitely have a way to access braille >>> whether it be a display on your notetaker or a display hooked to a >>> laptop >>> or >>> desktop. >>> You may or may not need the embosser. But if you do not get that, you >>> should have a braille writer, I mean the old fashioned perkins brailler! >>> I say this because there will be some times where you need hard copy >>> braille. >>> Two instances: >>> 1. you do a presentation and need notes in a speech class or something >>> else. >>> 2. You need to read something in class or you need to memorize something >>> for >>> an acting class or something. >>> You'll want something hard copy then. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Brianna Scerenscko >>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College >>> >>> Hello NABS Members, >>> My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am >>> working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need >>> for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know >>> and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that >>> you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that >>> I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school >>> and I never use it. >>> Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. >>> Thank You >>> Brianna >>> >>> >>> On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: >>>> One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are >>>> getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one >>>> that >>>> if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They >>>> might >>>> find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Michelle >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From astrochem119 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 03:58:42 2011 From: astrochem119 at gmail.com (Chelsea Cook) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:58:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items Message-ID: Hi all, One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing down everything would be helpful. Thanks, Chelsea -- Chelsea Cook Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major cook2010 at vt.edu "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has been reached through the stars." Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 From orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 04:06:14 2011 From: orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com (Laura Glowacki) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:06:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items References: Message-ID: Chelsey, Though not an exact science, I have just learned over the years to tell when something smells/tastes/feels as if it's gone bad, especially milk, bread, lunch meat, and cheese. Also, in general, certain foods you buy will last you a certain amount of time in your fridge. For instance, milk usually lasts just about 2 weeks give or take a day or two. Cheese, if kept properly wrapped up, can last several weeks depending on what type it is. If in doubt, I just remember what the food tastes/smells/feels like when I first opened the packaging when it was fresh and note if there's any major differences. If in serious doubt, I will often err on the side of caution and toss it especially meat and dairy products. I don't know if that helps answer your question at all. If you want an exact date of expiration, writing it down may be the only way to accurately track such things. Otherwise, remembering what dy you bought it and searching the internet for information on shelf life of a certain food will often give you some ball park numbers. Most people I know, blind and sighted, just go by what it looks like as even the expiration dates or use-by dates are not always super accurate in predicting when a product will expire. HTH, Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chelsea Cook" To: Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items Hi all, One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing down everything would be helpful. Thanks, Chelsea -- Chelsea Cook Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major cook2010 at vt.edu "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has been reached through the stars." Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/orangebutterfly87%40gmail.com From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 27 04:10:03 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:10:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mr. Andrews, if you would have read my post, after someone said that the 2011 version of Office wasn't out, yet, you would have seen my response. I thought the original poster was referring to Word. Blessings, Joshua On 2/26/11, David Andrews wrote: > Then you are a man ahead of his times, as there is no 2011 version of > Office. > > Dave > > At 01:35 PM 2/25/2011, you wrote: >>Jaws works better with the 2011 version. That's what I use. >>Blessings, Joshua >> >>On 2/25/11, David Dunphy wrote: >> > Let me ask a question, as I think it's important for students. >> > How user friendly is Jaws and Office 2010? I've been told to avoid >> > Office 2010 by someone and to stay with office 2007. >> > Thoughts anyone? >> > >> > On 2/25/11, CathyAnne wrote: >> >> I'm pleased to announce the release of our latest textbook. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 is a comprehensive exploration of >> >> Word >> >> 2010 with JAWS or Window-Eyes. It takes readers from the basics of >> >> Word >> >> 2010 through some of the more advanced features such as Macros, Forms, >> >> and >> >> Mail Merge. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This textbook is available for sale from Access Technology Institute >> >> and >> >> is >> >> available for immediate download. To review the table of contents and >> >> purchase your digital download textbook, please visit: >> >> http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> CathyAnne >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> >> >> CathyAnne Murtha >> >> >> >> cathy at blindtraining.com >> >> >> >> Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha >> >> >> >> Yahoo IM: CathyAnneMurtha >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Access Technology Institute >> >> >> >> www.blindtraining.com >> >> >> >> Phone: (520) 303-5885 >> >> >> >> FAX: (800) 986-6198 >> >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 27 04:15:40 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 20:15:40 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items References: Message-ID: <0CC14658A7EC4ACDBFA18E5054487732@stanford.edu> Some brands of things expire faster, such as milk. The best way is to know about how long something lasts and the rate of consumption. If you don't mind the individually packaged things, such as cheese sticks instead of sliced or whole cheese, that can make it last a lot longer. Yoghurt usually lasts at least 1.5, if not 2 or more weeks. Yes...and, if in doubt, throw it out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Glowacki" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items > Chelsey, > > Though not an exact science, I have just learned over the years > to tell when something smells/tastes/feels as if it's gone bad, > especially milk, bread, lunch meat, and cheese. Also, in > general, certain foods you buy will last you a certain amount of > time in your fridge. For instance, milk usually lasts just about > 2 weeks give or take a day or two. Cheese, if kept properly > wrapped up, can last several weeks depending on what type it is. > > If in doubt, I just remember what the food tastes/smells/feels > like when I first opened the packaging when it was fresh and note > if there's any major differences. If in serious doubt, I will > often err on the side of caution and toss it especially meat and > dairy products. I don't know if that helps answer your question > at all. If you want an exact date of expiration, writing it down > may be the only way to accurately track such things. Otherwise, > remembering what dy you bought it and searching the internet for > information on shelf life of a certain food will often give you > some ball park numbers. Most people I know, blind and sighted, > just go by what it looks like as even the expiration dates or > use-by dates are not always super accurate in predicting when a > product will expire. > > HTH, > Laura > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chelsea Cook" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items > > > Hi all, > > One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the > mini > fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me > trouble. > How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in > terms of > expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping > about > every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same > window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a > science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of > writing > down everything would be helpful. > > Thanks, > Chelsea > > -- > Chelsea Cook > > Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major > cook2010 at vt.edu > "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the > stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom > has > been reached through > the stars." > Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars > and > Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/orangebutterfly87%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From spangler.robert at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 04:21:40 2011 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 23:21:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: <9FE374F3AED04A92B925CE3D96E5CBF3@stanford.edu> References: <9FE374F3AED04A92B925CE3D96E5CBF3@stanford.edu> Message-ID: I doubt you will need a Braille embosser. IN fact, I haven't used mine for the duration of time that I have been in college which is why I've been trying to sell it. You can use Braille but you will most likely use it less. Depending on your university, they may have an Braille embosser and will be able to Braille things for you. Thanks, Robby On 2/26/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > The embosser issue is a personal choice, but I definitely agree that, if you > do not have an embosser, you at least need to have a Perkins or other > Braille writer. I have an embosser, but, do to space, I opted not to bring > it to college with me this year, but I did bring my Perkins. My safety net, > should I ever need to use an embosser, is that I can ask the DRC to emboss > something for me, which I have not had to do, as I do not use hardcopy > Braille that much, with the major exception being tactile graphics. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brianna Scerenscko" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College > > >> Thanks everyone. >> >> On 2/26/11, Joshua Lester wrote: >>> Right on, Ashley! I don't like the Perkins Brailler, though. It makes >>> too much noise, and disturbs my sighted counterparts in college. I'm >>> looking forward to getting that new Brailler, that I was talking about >>> in a previous thread. Brianna, this Brailler I'm referring to is >>> lighter, and makes less racket! Best of all, you can plug it into a >>> computer, and print out your work, so you can have the hard copy >>> Braille, that you did, plus the print to give to your professor. >>> Contact David Pillisher, (the one that has invented this Brailler.) >>> Blessings, Joshua >>> >>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Brianna, >>>> Hi, well I don't agree with the obsolete statement. >>>> Its true that given the large amount of reading and new textbooks you >>>> have >>>> in college, >>>> audio formats will be your primary way of reading and obtaining >>>> information. >>>> You'll read slides/handouts from professors. You'll read your texts in >>>> audio >>>> format through RFB and/or electronic text. >>>> >>>> But you will certainly need braille and will use it daily, especially if >>>> you >>>> used braille to study in high school! Some are already auditory >>>> learners; >>>> others like me used braille a lot in public school and still do! >>>> You need a braille notetaker with a braille display! This way you can >>>> take >>>> notes and read them. >>>> As others have said, you can also download books and read them that way. >>>> Your english classes and perhaps history courses may require reading >>>> novels >>>> or parts of them. >>>> These novels may be available online. You can then download them to the >>>> computer and then to a thumb drive or SD card so you can put that into >>>> your >>>> notetaker and read. >>>> For instance using bookshare or web Braille from NLS. >>>> I had to read the Prince for history; I had to read some classics and >>>> novels >>>> for english including Death of a Salesman, The Glass Manassury, and To >>>> Kill >>>> a Mocking bird. >>>> Although I read them on audio format I'm sure they are also available in >>>> braille. >>>> >>>> As to the question of the embosser, that is up to you. >>>> Will you want to have hard copy braille of notes or handouts? >>>> Are you one who likes to see braille and read it down the page rather >>>> than >>>> linearly on a display? >>>> >>>> I have an old embosser; we did not get it through the agency though; I >>>> think >>>> we bought it used; I can;'t remember how my family got it for me. >>>> I use it sometimes; but use the display more. >>>> I find the embossed braille helpful to study particular concepts having >>>> odd >>>> spelled names or something difficult. >>>> Also to study something like Grammar in english or another language, I >>>> need >>>> braille and particularly hard copy braille! >>>> Audio just is not real helpful. >>>> >>>> So when you justify equipment, definitely have a way to access braille >>>> whether it be a display on your notetaker or a display hooked to a >>>> laptop >>>> or >>>> desktop. >>>> You may or may not need the embosser. But if you do not get that, you >>>> should have a braille writer, I mean the old fashioned perkins brailler! >>>> I say this because there will be some times where you need hard copy >>>> braille. >>>> Two instances: >>>> 1. you do a presentation and need notes in a speech class or something >>>> else. >>>> 2. You need to read something in class or you need to memorize something >>>> for >>>> an acting class or something. >>>> You'll want something hard copy then. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Brianna Scerenscko >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College >>>> >>>> Hello NABS Members, >>>> My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am >>>> working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need >>>> for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know >>>> and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that >>>> you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that >>>> I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school >>>> and I never use it. >>>> Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. >>>> Thank You >>>> Brianna >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: >>>>> One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are >>>>> getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one >>>>> that >>>>> if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They >>>>> might >>>>> find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Michelle >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - SSIPS Committee Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Feb 27 04:33:15 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 23:33:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> Chelsea, That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask someone the expiration date? If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry about. Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my own much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. Generally, things have a certain shelf life. Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe you buy lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, sometimes. Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. You can smell or taste when it goes bad. For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container tight after using it. Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts a week at least. One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't know. So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. Like I had this bread six days, its still good. Hth, Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Chelsea Cook Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items Hi all, One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing down everything would be helpful. Thanks, Chelsea -- Chelsea Cook Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major cook2010 at vt.edu "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has been reached through the stars." Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Sun Feb 27 05:47:08 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 23:47:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on New Brailler Message-ID: Hi, it's Joshua Lester. David Pillischer is the president and founder of Sighted Electronics. I found this on a Google search. There's still no news on his Brailler. If anyone has his contact information, please E-mail me off list, and give it to me. Thank you. Blessings, Joshua From clb5590 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 06:05:55 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 01:05:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a sealable container. It will last way longer. And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in my room. And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all about judgment and your comfort level. Cindy On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Chelsea, > That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask someone the > expiration date? > If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry > about. > Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my own > much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. > Generally, things have a certain shelf life. > Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe you buy > lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, > sometimes. > > Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. > You can smell or taste when it goes bad. > For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. > Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container tight > after using it. > > Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts > a week at least. > > One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel > different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't know. > So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. Like I > had this bread six days, its still good. > > Hth, > Ashley > -----Original Message----- > From: Chelsea Cook > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items > > Hi all, > > One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini > fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. > How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of > expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about > every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same > window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a > science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing > down everything would be helpful. > > Thanks, > Chelsea > > -- > Chelsea Cook > > Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major > cook2010 at vt.edu > "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the > stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has > been reached through > the stars." > Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and > Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 06:32:28 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 23:32:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <3914CE45-6C8E-4C3F-BB29-BD131A963EF3@mac.com> References: <8sKE1g00B2PutTY05sKFG4@netzero.net> <3914CE45-6C8E-4C3F-BB29-BD131A963EF3@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Kurt and all, I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. Arielle On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > So very true. > > I remember being in the Mall Of America, > the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a rolercoaster, > and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. > > Councelors fought it out and won that one though, > but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. > > Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that is, > said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used as a > weapon." > > Jorge > > > > On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: > >> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people just >> don't understand about blindness. >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >> To: >> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >> >>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your >> blindness-- >>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments >> as >>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, >> to the >>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to >> answer >>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the >> discussion. >> >>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, >> in a >>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other >> interest. Ask >>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >> >>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I >> think. >>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not >> enjoy >>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small >> section >>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >> >>> The Event of the Century >> >>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's >> building >>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do >> the same >>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill >> air. >>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, >> and we >>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are >> seven >>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be >> blind. >> >>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating >> the >>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it >> with our >>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I >> call out, >>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes >> from all >>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way >> to the >>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the >> cashier >>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our >> friends >>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >> >>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into >> a cup >>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the >> soda >>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine >> which >>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take >> another step, >>> a stranger approaches me. >> >>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >> >>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step >> around the >>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I >> know >>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>> island. >> >>> "It's this way," she says . >> >>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >> >>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an >> open >>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >> >>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I >> follow >>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle >> happening >>> before her eyes. >> >>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >> says >>> as I approach the table. >> >>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all >> use to >>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have >> left >>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has >> always >>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and >> outdated >>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism >> fresh. >> >>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of >> being >>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I >> very >>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. >> I >>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability >> to solve >>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, >> but >>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me >> exceptional. >> >>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but >> because >>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as >> a blind >>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children >> because they >>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a >> perceived >>> reality. >> >>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew >> and >>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological >> clock >>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I >> talk >>> endlessly about them. >> >>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is >> five and >>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. >> Kensley is >>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and >> then, she >>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and >> full of >>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have >> watched them >>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them >> I see >>> where the future can lie. >> >>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when >> people >>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >> >>> "How could you watch children?" >> >>> "Isn't it difficult?" >> >>> "Can blind people do that?" >> >>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I >> respond >>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >> >>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a >> seven-year-old, >>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be >> dead. >> >> >>> I wonder if people think about what they say. >> >>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to >> them. My >>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We >> think >>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults >> can >>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >> >>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for >> this, >>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all >> day long. >> >> >>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get >> Caiden to >>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too >> many >>> video games you will go blind." >> >>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. >> Look >>> at Aunt Bridgy." >> >>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and >> nieces. >>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the >> stereotypes >>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through >> these >>> children, I know the effect is lasting. >> >>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed >> because >>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my >> house, she >>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of >> print. >>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on >> them. >>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to >> "be." >> >>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe >> what >>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my >> nephew and >>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after >> blindness. >>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. >> My >>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view >> other >>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and >> there is >>> no thought of limitations. >> >>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not >> respond to >>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly >> adjusted to >>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting >> to be >>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When >> they >>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. >> Kensley >>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, >> I am >>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >> >>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I >> know >>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their >> location >>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand >> that >>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with >> me. >>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >> can care >>> for them. >> >>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The >> world >>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys >> into the >>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, >> but, in >>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >> >>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind >> and >>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted >> as >>> though I had no clue. >> >>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >> >>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >> >>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >> >>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >> >>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps >> of the >>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to >> capture a >>> blind person out of their natural environment. >> >>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. >> "Wow, it's >>> snowing again?" >> >>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be >> your >>> sixth sense." >> >>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >> >>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I >> can no >>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I >> try to >>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >> >>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the >> street. >>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a >> person >>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How >> many >>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >> >>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip >> across. >>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the >> right-away) >>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the >> green, I >>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the >> dot. >>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of >> boredom. >> >>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on >> Center >>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into >> oncoming >>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this >> Crazy Carla >>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >> had no >>> choice but to keep truckin'. >> >>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and >> shouted, >>> "What the hell are you doing?" >> >>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >> >>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have >> the >>> right-away. Shit!" >> >>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out >> on >>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >> >>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives >> you the >>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >> >>> "Can you make it home from here?" >> >>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >> >>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting >> around >>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >> >>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >> >>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" >> Grabbing >>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >> >>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the >> perceptions >>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was >> safely and >>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed >> incapable by >>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, >> "Hmm, this >>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they >> must be >>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the >> blind girl >>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >> >>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people >> enjoying each >>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered >> the >>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to >> thirty-five, >>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted >> companion. >> >>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any >> other >>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about >> what to >>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing >> on the >>> television. >> >>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >> >>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>> From: Darian Smith >> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>> Message-ID: >>> >> > m >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >>> Hi all, >>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can >> translate >>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be >> considered as >>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people >> don't >>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people >> deal >>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing >> you want >>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were >> on, and >>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally >> didn't >>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person >> trying to >>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not >> require >>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly >> annoyed >>> and/or taking >>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk >> about >>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil >> importance of >>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How >> does >>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life >> and >>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >> >>> Darian >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> 5369%40netzero.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 06:49:38 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 23:49:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi all, I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most problems. By the way, I just learned about a website called www.directionsforme.com which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if you are so inclined. They also have package labels for over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other pertinent drug information. Arielle On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: > I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a > lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini > fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but > wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient > is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't > want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go > to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a > meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things > complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found > that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable > food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. > I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep > ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing > food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use > dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger > niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a > case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try > some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is > helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. > Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards > the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. > > This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a > restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a > sealable container. It will last way longer. > > And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as > bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in > the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. > > But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that > reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few > extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, > and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in > my room. > > And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons > that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you > should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or > something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it > out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all > about judgment and your comfort level. > > Cindy > > On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Chelsea, >> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask someone >> the >> expiration date? >> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry >> about. >> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my own >> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe you >> buy >> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >> sometimes. >> >> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container tight >> after using it. >> >> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >> a week at least. >> >> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel >> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't >> know. >> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. Like I >> had this bread six days, its still good. >> >> Hth, >> Ashley >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chelsea Cook >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >> >> Hi all, >> >> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. >> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of >> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >> down everything would be helpful. >> >> Thanks, >> Chelsea >> >> -- >> Chelsea Cook >> >> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >> cook2010 at vt.edu >> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >> been reached through >> the stars." >> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Cindy Bennett > uNC Wilmington Psychology major > > clb5590 at gmail.com > 828.989.5383 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 07:07:11 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 00:07:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: References: <8sKE1g00B2PutTY05sKFG4@netzero.net> <3914CE45-6C8E-4C3F-BB29-BD131A963EF3@mac.com> Message-ID: Arielle, I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again. :) I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own. But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number, who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist. Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world. And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case. Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine. It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors, braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple, all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they so choose, a family. That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge people who make the blind community their primary social network. I only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy. Best, Kirt P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded that way. On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Kurt and all, > > I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff > a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have > similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part > of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my > blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends > and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness > stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk > about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I > don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is > blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind > person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted > coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us > prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities > but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main > community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these > people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but > again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to > interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make > an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we > don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. > > Arielle > > On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> So very true. >> >> I remember being in the Mall Of America, >> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a rolercoaster, >> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. >> >> Councelors fought it out and won that one though, >> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. >> >> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that is, >> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used as >> a >> weapon." >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: >> >>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people just >>> don't understand about blindness. >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> To: >>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >>> >>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your >>> blindness-- >>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments >>> as >>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, >>> to the >>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to >>> answer >>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the >>> discussion. >>> >>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, >>> in a >>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other >>> interest. Ask >>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >>> >>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I >>> think. >>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not >>> enjoy >>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small >>> section >>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >>> >>>> The Event of the Century >>> >>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's >>> building >>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do >>> the same >>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill >>> air. >>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, >>> and we >>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are >>> seven >>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be >>> blind. >>> >>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating >>> the >>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it >>> with our >>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I >>> call out, >>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes >>> from all >>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way >>> to the >>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the >>> cashier >>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our >>> friends >>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >>> >>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into >>> a cup >>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the >>> soda >>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine >>> which >>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take >>> another step, >>>> a stranger approaches me. >>> >>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >>> >>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step >>> around the >>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I >>> know >>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>>> island. >>> >>>> "It's this way," she says . >>> >>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >>> >>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an >>> open >>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >>> >>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I >>> follow >>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle >>> happening >>>> before her eyes. >>> >>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >>> says >>>> as I approach the table. >>> >>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all >>> use to >>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have >>> left >>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has >>> always >>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and >>> outdated >>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism >>> fresh. >>> >>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of >>> being >>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I >>> very >>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. >>> I >>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability >>> to solve >>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, >>> but >>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me >>> exceptional. >>> >>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but >>> because >>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as >>> a blind >>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children >>> because they >>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a >>> perceived >>>> reality. >>> >>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew >>> and >>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological >>> clock >>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I >>> talk >>>> endlessly about them. >>> >>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is >>> five and >>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. >>> Kensley is >>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and >>> then, she >>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and >>> full of >>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have >>> watched them >>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them >>> I see >>>> where the future can lie. >>> >>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when >>> people >>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >>> >>>> "How could you watch children?" >>> >>>> "Isn't it difficult?" >>> >>>> "Can blind people do that?" >>> >>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I >>> respond >>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >>> >>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a >>> seven-year-old, >>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be >>> dead. >>> >>> >>>> I wonder if people think about what they say. >>> >>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to >>> them. My >>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We >>> think >>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults >>> can >>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >>> >>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for >>> this, >>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all >>> day long. >>> >>> >>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get >>> Caiden to >>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too >>> many >>>> video games you will go blind." >>> >>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. >>> Look >>>> at Aunt Bridgy." >>> >>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and >>> nieces. >>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the >>> stereotypes >>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through >>> these >>>> children, I know the effect is lasting. >>> >>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed >>> because >>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my >>> house, she >>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of >>> print. >>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on >>> them. >>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to >>> "be." >>> >>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe >>> what >>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my >>> nephew and >>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after >>> blindness. >>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. >>> My >>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view >>> other >>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and >>> there is >>>> no thought of limitations. >>> >>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not >>> respond to >>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly >>> adjusted to >>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting >>> to be >>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When >>> they >>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. >>> Kensley >>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, >>> I am >>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >>> >>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I >>> know >>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their >>> location >>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand >>> that >>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with >>> me. >>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >>> can care >>>> for them. >>> >>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The >>> world >>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys >>> into the >>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, >>> but, in >>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >>> >>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind >>> and >>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted >>> as >>>> though I had no clue. >>> >>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >>> >>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >>> >>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >>> >>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >>> >>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps >>> of the >>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to >>> capture a >>>> blind person out of their natural environment. >>> >>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. >>> "Wow, it's >>>> snowing again?" >>> >>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be >>> your >>>> sixth sense." >>> >>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >>> >>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I >>> can no >>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I >>> try to >>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >>> >>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the >>> street. >>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a >>> person >>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How >>> many >>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >>> >>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip >>> across. >>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the >>> right-away) >>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the >>> green, I >>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the >>> dot. >>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of >>> boredom. >>> >>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on >>> Center >>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into >>> oncoming >>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this >>> Crazy Carla >>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >>> had no >>>> choice but to keep truckin'. >>> >>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and >>> shouted, >>>> "What the hell are you doing?" >>> >>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >>> >>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have >>> the >>>> right-away. Shit!" >>> >>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out >>> on >>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >>> >>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives >>> you the >>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >>> >>>> "Can you make it home from here?" >>> >>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >>> >>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting >>> around >>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >>> >>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >>> >>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" >>> Grabbing >>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >>> >>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the >>> perceptions >>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was >>> safely and >>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed >>> incapable by >>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, >>> "Hmm, this >>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they >>> must be >>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the >>> blind girl >>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >>> >>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people >>> enjoying each >>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered >>> the >>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to >>> thirty-five, >>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted >>> companion. >>> >>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any >>> other >>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about >>> what to >>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing >>> on the >>>> television. >>> >>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >>> >>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>>> From: Darian Smith >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>> >> m >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can >>> translate >>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be >>> considered as >>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people >>> don't >>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people >>> deal >>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing >>> you want >>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were >>> on, and >>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally >>> didn't >>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person >>> trying to >>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not >>> require >>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly >>> annoyed >>>> and/or taking >>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk >>> about >>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil >>> importance of >>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How >>> does >>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life >>> and >>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >>> >>>> Darian >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 27 08:36:00 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 00:36:00 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are often packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something quick once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of food. If anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave that don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items > Hi all, > > I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy > products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time > to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes > fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods > like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed > is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure > if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow > with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely > for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it > feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like > keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying > attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most > problems. > > By the way, I just learned about a website called > www.directionsforme.com > which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you > can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy > mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if > you are so inclined. They also have package labels for > over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold > pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other > pertinent drug information. > > Arielle > > On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but >> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go >> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >> >> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >> sealable container. It will last way longer. >> >> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in >> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. >> >> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, >> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >> my room. >> >> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons >> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all >> about judgment and your comfort level. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Chelsea, >>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask someone >>> the >>> expiration date? >>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry >>> about. >>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my own >>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe you >>> buy >>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>> sometimes. >>> >>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container tight >>> after using it. >>> >>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>> a week at least. >>> >>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel >>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't >>> know. >>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. Like >>> I >>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>> >>> Hth, >>> Ashley >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Chelsea Cook >>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. >>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of >>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >>> down everything would be helpful. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Chelsea >>> >>> -- >>> Chelsea Cook >>> >>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >>> been reached through >>> the stars." >>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cindy Bennett >> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >> >> clb5590 at gmail.com >> 828.989.5383 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From aaatlantic at aol.com Sun Feb 27 13:13:24 2011 From: aaatlantic at aol.com (aaatlantic at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 08:13:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac Message-ID: <02747512-A60E-44B9-8586-7C816F78956D@aol.com> Hey guys, I am looking for a used Mac note book. If anybody have any idea where to get one please let me know. Thanks Alex Atlantic cell 1-814-464-4247 sent from my awesome iPhone From bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net Sun Feb 27 16:25:29 2011 From: bernadetta_pracon at samobile.net (Bernadetta Pracon) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:25:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College Message-ID: <20110227162529.14595.56109@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Hi Briana, I had the same dilemma as you do when I was facing my freshman year of college a few years ago. I never actually used my school's braille embosser when I was in high school, but I had a braillist use it for me to transcribe papers, worksheets, and tests. I was told that braille wouldn't be as practical in college too, but I'm a strong advocate for braille andI was determined to make use of it as much as possible. I ended up getting abraille embosser from my state's commission, andI think I only used it once. It ended up hanging out in my dorm room, taking up a ton of space, till I recently got rid of it. For one thing, it's way too loud for a dorm room--at least the one I had was. Secondly, I never really had the need to emboss things, except for one class, where I had to read a speech. And even then, I could have used my Braille Note instead if I hadn't owned a braille embosser. My advice to you is, even though getting an embosser may seem like a great idea, it's most likely going to be kind of useless to you in a college setting, and you really need quite a bit of room for it. You should have them get you a braille notetaker or a braille display instead. Any of the ones on the market today are going to allow you to read things back in braille, so you can still keep up with the skill, but without having to waiste room, paper, and without it being noisy. Plus a notetaker or a display is portable, whereas a braille embosser can only be used in your dorm or wherever you'd have it. Just my two cents!! All Best, Bernadetta. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From amylsabo at comcast.net Sun Feb 27 17:21:31 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <893396358.1462951.1298827291949.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello david, i too have also thoought of this myself since i have wanted to purchase ms office 2010 for my desktop and laptop since i have ms office 2003 on my desktop but, i have ms office 2007 on my laptop. i have used ms office 2007 on my laptop and, it's very accessible with jfw and i have jfw 12 on my laptop. so, that's my thoughts on this and, i too ma also interested in your question too. take care and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 19:29:55 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 Let me ask a question, as I think it's important for students. How user friendly is Jaws and Office 2010? I've been told to avoid Office 2010 by someone and to stay with office 2007. Thoughts anyone? On 2/25/11, CathyAnne wrote: > I'm pleased to announce the release of our latest textbook. > > > > An Immersion into Microsoft Word 2010 is a comprehensive exploration of Word > 2010 with JAWS or Window-Eyes. It takes readers from the basics of Word > 2010 through some of the more advanced features such as Macros, Forms, and > Mail Merge. > > > > This textbook is available for sale from Access Technology Institute and is > available for immediate download. To review the table of contents and > purchase your digital download textbook, please visit: > http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm. > > > > CathyAnne > > > > > > --- > > CathyAnne Murtha > > cathy at blindtraining.com > > Twitter: CathyAnneMurtha > > Yahoo IM: CathyAnneMurtha > > > > Access Technology Institute > > www.blindtraining.com > > Phone: (520) 303-5885 > > FAX: (800) 986-6198 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > _______________________________________________ > News mailing list > News at lists.blindtraining.com > http://lists.blindtraining.com/listinfo.cgi/news-blindtraining.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 18:53:01 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 13:53:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Hi, nicole, That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list will benefit as well. Thanks! Katie On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are often > packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something quick > once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of food. If > anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave that > don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. > > Nicole > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items > > >> Hi all, >> >> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >> problems. >> >> By the way, I just learned about a website called >> www.directionsforme.com >> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >> pertinent drug information. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but >>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go >>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>> >>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>> >>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in >>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. >>> >>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, >>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>> my room. >>> >>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons >>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all >>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Chelsea, >>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask someone >>>> the >>>> expiration date? >>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry >>>> about. >>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my own >>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe you >>>> buy >>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>> sometimes. >>>> >>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container tight >>>> after using it. >>>> >>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>> a week at least. >>>> >>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel >>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't >>>> know. >>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. Like >>>> >>>> I >>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>> >>>> Hth, >>>> Ashley >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. >>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of >>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Chelsea >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chelsea Cook >>>> >>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >>>> been reached through >>>> the stars." >>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cindy Bennett >>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>> >>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>> 828.989.5383 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From amylsabo at comcast.net Sun Feb 27 18:59:08 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:59:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] upcoming news Message-ID: <183022062.1466623.1298833148516.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> HELLO ALL, I JUST WANT TO INFORM YOU ALL ON SOME UPCOMING ANNIOUNCEMENTS IN REGARDS TO AUDIO ACCESS RADIO THAT HAVE CAME TO MY APPEARANCE THIS PAST WEEKEND. THERE WILL BE SOON A LISTENER COMMENT LINE WHERE YOU CAN GIVE FEEBACK, GET ON LISTENER GAMES PRIZZES TO WIN AND SO MUCH MORE.. IT WON’TBE A WAY FOR YOU TO LISTEN INTO OUR STATION LIKE BEFORE BUT, IF YOU WANT TO GIVE FEEBACK THIS IS WHERE TO GO.2. TO FOLLOW US ON TWITTER WHICH IS WHERE WE WILL BE HAVING ALL OF THE NEWS, SHOWS, AND OTHER STUFF JUST FOLLOW US AT AUDIOACCESS13. IF YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF OUR LISTER ANNOUNCEMENT LIST JUST SEND A EMAIL TO OUR COOWNER DAVID DUNPHY AT DJD at AUDIOACCESSRADIO.COM WITH THE SUBJECT LINE SUBSCRIBE ME! WELL, THAT’S ALL FOR NOW THERE WILL BE MORE NEWS TO FOLLOW SO STAY TUNED TO YOUR EMAIL IN BOX AND ALSO THROUGH TWITTER AS WE ARE GETTING CLOSER TO OUR BREAKTHROUGH IN A EXCITING AND AWESOME WAYY TO LISTEN TO AUDIO! SINCERELY, AMY From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 27 19:56:12 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:56:12 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <091C0FB496FE47718D0F77FE272EC513@stanford.edu> Okay, so you cannot make everything in a microwave, but you can make most things. Most things that you boil, such as pasta or carrots, can be made in a microwave. You just need a container that is big enough that the water will not boil over and can withstand a lot of heat. I have a quart Pyrex pitcher that I use for boiling pasta or carrots. You also have to have somewhere to strain whatever you have boiled, so this may not be an option if you don't have a sink in your room or a dorm kitchen. Vegetables, both frozen and fresh, can be cooked in the microwave. The trick to cooking anything in the microwave is knowing how long to cook it for. Often, you have to rotate and/or stir whatever you are cooking, even if your microwave has a turn table and particularly if you are cooking something that is more than an inch deep, such as macaroni and cheese. Potatoes cook well in the microwave, as long as you do not over cook them. You can make grilled cheese sandwiches or mini pizzas with regular bread, English muffins, or any other type of bread. You can also use a mix of packaged food and fresh food. For example, you can make mini tuna casserole by cooking pasta, cooking carrots, and then mixing then together with cheese and a small can of tuna and then heating it again. Something else to note about cooking in the microwave is that somethings don't necessarily burn, but they get tough, such as bread/pizza or meat. Different microwaves cook things on different powers, and most microwaves have an option for controlling the power setting. Make sure that you know all of the functions that your microwave has and that you have it labeled in some way that you can access the ones that you want. Don't ever leave the room with the microwave running. If you ever smell smoke, stop the microwave, but don't open it. Let me know if you have any other questions. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items > Hi, nicole, > That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so > any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than > packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list > will benefit as well. Thanks! > Katie > > On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are >> often >> packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something >> quick >> once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of food. >> If >> anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave that >> don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >>> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >>> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >>> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >>> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >>> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >>> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >>> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >>> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >>> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >>> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >>> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >>> problems. >>> >>> By the way, I just learned about a website called >>> www.directionsforme.com >>> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >>> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >>> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >>> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >>> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >>> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >>> pertinent drug information. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but >>>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go >>>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>>> >>>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>>> >>>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in >>>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. >>>> >>>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, >>>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>>> my room. >>>> >>>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons >>>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all >>>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>>> >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> wrote: >>>>> Chelsea, >>>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask >>>>> someone >>>>> the >>>>> expiration date? >>>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry >>>>> about. >>>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my >>>>> own >>>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe >>>>> you >>>>> buy >>>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>>> sometimes. >>>>> >>>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container >>>>> tight >>>>> after using it. >>>>> >>>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>>> a week at least. >>>>> >>>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel >>>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't >>>>> know. >>>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. >>>>> Like >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>>> >>>>> Hth, >>>>> Ashley >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. >>>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of >>>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >>>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chelsea >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Chelsea Cook >>>>> >>>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >>>>> been reached through >>>>> the stars." >>>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> 828.989.5383 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 27 19:58:36 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 11:58:36 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <956E27B763F9441BB0ABFE663FA0FD85@stanford.edu> Oh, and if you are cooking breakfast, eggs can also be cooked in the microwave, but not the best idea for a dorm room. If you do cook eggs, the best way is to scramble them and to keep stirring them. This is important for two reasons. First, they sometimes tend to kind of explode if you don't keep stirring them; very messy. Second, you end up with a ring of cooked egg around the outside and raw egg in the middle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items > Hi, nicole, > That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so > any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than > packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list > will benefit as well. Thanks! > Katie > > On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are >> often >> packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something >> quick >> once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of food. >> If >> anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave that >> don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >>> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >>> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >>> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >>> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >>> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >>> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >>> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >>> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >>> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >>> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >>> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >>> problems. >>> >>> By the way, I just learned about a website called >>> www.directionsforme.com >>> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >>> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >>> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >>> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >>> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >>> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >>> pertinent drug information. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but >>>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go >>>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>>> >>>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>>> >>>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in >>>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. >>>> >>>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, >>>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>>> my room. >>>> >>>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons >>>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all >>>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>>> >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> wrote: >>>>> Chelsea, >>>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask >>>>> someone >>>>> the >>>>> expiration date? >>>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry >>>>> about. >>>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my >>>>> own >>>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe >>>>> you >>>>> buy >>>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>>> sometimes. >>>>> >>>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container >>>>> tight >>>>> after using it. >>>>> >>>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>>> a week at least. >>>>> >>>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel >>>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't >>>>> know. >>>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. >>>>> Like >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>>> >>>>> Hth, >>>>> Ashley >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. >>>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of >>>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >>>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chelsea >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Chelsea Cook >>>>> >>>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >>>>> been reached through >>>>> the stars." >>>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> 828.989.5383 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 20:21:19 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 13:21:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: <956E27B763F9441BB0ABFE663FA0FD85@stanford.edu> References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> <956E27B763F9441BB0ABFE663FA0FD85@stanford.edu> Message-ID: The website busycooks.about.com has lots of great easy recipes, including a whole "microwave meals" section and a whole "five ingredients or less" section. I'm not sure if these will work in dorm rooms, but George Foreman grills are incredibly easy to use for cooking hamburgers or chicken breasts. Just plug it in, put the meat inside, put the grease tray underneath and take the meat out with a fork when it's done. Arielle On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Oh, and if you are cooking breakfast, eggs can also be cooked in the > microwave, but not the best idea for a dorm room. If you do cook eggs, the > best way is to scramble them and to keep stirring them. This is important > for two reasons. First, they sometimes tend to kind of explode if you don't > keep stirring them; very messy. Second, you end up with a ring of cooked egg > around the outside and raw egg in the middle. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katie Wang" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items > > >> Hi, nicole, >> That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so >> any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than >> packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list >> will benefit as well. Thanks! >> Katie >> >> On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are >>> often >>> packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something >>> quick >>> once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of food. >>> If >>> anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave that >>> don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >>>> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >>>> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >>>> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >>>> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >>>> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >>>> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >>>> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >>>> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >>>> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >>>> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >>>> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >>>> problems. >>>> >>>> By the way, I just learned about a website called >>>> www.directionsforme.com >>>> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >>>> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >>>> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >>>> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >>>> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >>>> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >>>> pertinent drug information. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>>>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>>>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>>>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but >>>>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>>>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>>>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go >>>>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>>>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>>>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>>>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>>>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>>>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>>>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>>>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>>>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>>>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>>>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>>>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>>>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>>>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>>>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>>>> >>>>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>>>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>>>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>>>> >>>>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>>>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in >>>>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. >>>>> >>>>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>>>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>>>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, >>>>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >>>>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons >>>>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>>>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>>>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>>>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all >>>>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>>>> >>>>> Cindy >>>>> >>>>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Chelsea, >>>>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask >>>>>> someone >>>>>> the >>>>>> expiration date? >>>>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry >>>>>> about. >>>>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my >>>>>> own >>>>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe >>>>>> you >>>>>> buy >>>>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>>>> sometimes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container >>>>>> tight >>>>>> after using it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>>>> a week at least. >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel >>>>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't >>>>>> know. >>>>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. >>>>>> Like >>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hth, >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. >>>>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of >>>>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >>>>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chelsea >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Chelsea Cook >>>>>> >>>>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >>>>>> been reached through >>>>>> the stars." >>>>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Cindy Bennett >>>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>>>> >>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>>> 828.989.5383 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun Feb 27 20:54:18 2011 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 12:54:18 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC><956E27B763F9441BB0ABFE663FA0FD85@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <766BAB084CBB43C08888F723F20783AB@stanford.edu> I'm guessing not. Most colleges do not allow cooking things besides microwaves in dorm rooms. Some dorms have a dorm kitchen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items > The website > busycooks.about.com > has lots of great easy recipes, including a whole "microwave meals" > section and a whole "five ingredients or less" section. > > I'm not sure if these will work in dorm rooms, but George Foreman > grills are incredibly easy to use for cooking hamburgers or chicken > breasts. Just plug it in, put the meat inside, put the grease tray > underneath and take the meat out with a fork when it's done. > > Arielle > > On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Oh, and if you are cooking breakfast, eggs can also be cooked in the >> microwave, but not the best idea for a dorm room. If you do cook eggs, >> the >> best way is to scramble them and to keep stirring them. This is important >> for two reasons. First, they sometimes tend to kind of explode if you >> don't >> keep stirring them; very messy. Second, you end up with a ring of cooked >> egg >> around the outside and raw egg in the middle. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Katie Wang" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:53 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items >> >> >>> Hi, nicole, >>> That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so >>> any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than >>> packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list >>> will benefit as well. Thanks! >>> Katie >>> >>> On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are >>>> often >>>> packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something >>>> quick >>>> once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of >>>> food. >>>> If >>>> anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave >>>> that >>>> don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >>>>> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >>>>> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >>>>> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >>>>> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >>>>> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >>>>> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >>>>> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >>>>> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >>>>> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >>>>> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >>>>> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >>>>> problems. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, I just learned about a website called >>>>> www.directionsforme.com >>>>> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >>>>> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >>>>> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >>>>> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >>>>> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >>>>> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >>>>> pertinent drug information. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>>>>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>>>>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>>>>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan >>>>>> but >>>>>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>>>>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>>>>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money >>>>>> go >>>>>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>>>>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>>>>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>>>>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>>>>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>>>>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>>>>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>>>>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>>>>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>>>>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>>>>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>>>>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>>>>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>>>>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>>>>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>>>>> >>>>>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>>>>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>>>>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>>>>> >>>>>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>>>>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread >>>>>> in >>>>>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a >>>>>> loaf. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>>>>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>>>>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining >>>>>> hall, >>>>>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>>>>> my room. >>>>>> >>>>>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience >>>>>> reasons >>>>>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>>>>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>>>>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>>>>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is >>>>>> all >>>>>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cindy >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Chelsea, >>>>>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask >>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> expiration date? >>>>>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to >>>>>>> worry >>>>>>> about. >>>>>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my >>>>>>> own >>>>>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>>>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>>>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> buy >>>>>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>>>>> sometimes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>>>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>>>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>>>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container >>>>>>> tight >>>>>>> after using it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>>>>> a week at least. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or >>>>>>> feel >>>>>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> know. >>>>>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. >>>>>>> Like >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hth, >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>>>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me >>>>>>> trouble. >>>>>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>>>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>>>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>>>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of >>>>>>> writing >>>>>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Chelsea >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Chelsea Cook >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>>>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>>>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>>>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> been reached through >>>>>>> the stars." >>>>>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>>>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Cindy Bennett >>>>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>>>>> >>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>>>> 828.989.5383 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 21:39:27 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:39:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC><956E27B763F9441BB0ABFE663FA0FD85@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <2C86BFD8DB8A48B9A63572D80406D053@AnjelinaPC> Another site to check out for easy recipes is: www.directionsforme.org -----Original Message----- From: Arielle Silverman Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 3:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items The website busycooks.about.com has lots of great easy recipes, including a whole "microwave meals" section and a whole "five ingredients or less" section. I'm not sure if these will work in dorm rooms, but George Foreman grills are incredibly easy to use for cooking hamburgers or chicken breasts. Just plug it in, put the meat inside, put the grease tray underneath and take the meat out with a fork when it's done. Arielle On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: > Oh, and if you are cooking breakfast, eggs can also be cooked in the > microwave, but not the best idea for a dorm room. If you do cook eggs, the > best way is to scramble them and to keep stirring them. This is important > for two reasons. First, they sometimes tend to kind of explode if you > don't > keep stirring them; very messy. Second, you end up with a ring of cooked > egg > around the outside and raw egg in the middle. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katie Wang" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items > > >> Hi, nicole, >> That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so >> any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than >> packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list >> will benefit as well. Thanks! >> Katie >> >> On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >>> Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are >>> often >>> packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something >>> quick >>> once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of food. >>> If >>> anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave that >>> don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. >>> >>> Nicole >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >>>> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >>>> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >>>> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >>>> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >>>> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >>>> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >>>> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >>>> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >>>> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >>>> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >>>> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >>>> problems. >>>> >>>> By the way, I just learned about a website called >>>> www.directionsforme.com >>>> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >>>> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >>>> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >>>> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >>>> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >>>> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >>>> pertinent drug information. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>>>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>>>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>>>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but >>>>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>>>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>>>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go >>>>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>>>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>>>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>>>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>>>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>>>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>>>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>>>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>>>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>>>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>>>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>>>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>>>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>>>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>>>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>>>> >>>>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>>>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>>>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>>>> >>>>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>>>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in >>>>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. >>>>> >>>>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>>>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>>>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, >>>>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>>>> my room. >>>>> >>>>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons >>>>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>>>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>>>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>>>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all >>>>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>>>> >>>>> Cindy >>>>> >>>>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Chelsea, >>>>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask >>>>>> someone >>>>>> the >>>>>> expiration date? >>>>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to >>>>>> worry >>>>>> about. >>>>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my >>>>>> own >>>>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe >>>>>> you >>>>>> buy >>>>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>>>> sometimes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container >>>>>> tight >>>>>> after using it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>>>> a week at least. >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or >>>>>> feel >>>>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> know. >>>>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. >>>>>> Like >>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hth, >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me >>>>>> trouble. >>>>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms >>>>>> of >>>>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >>>>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Chelsea >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Chelsea Cook >>>>>> >>>>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >>>>>> been reached through >>>>>> the stars." >>>>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Cindy Bennett >>>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>>>> >>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>>> 828.989.5383 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>> Email: >>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>> Website: >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From dstrick1 at roadrunner.com Sun Feb 27 21:56:25 2011 From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com (dstrick1 at roadrunner.com) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:56:25 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20110227215625.XLWOT.220835.root@cdptpa-web12-z01> I agree 100%. I have met a lot of blind people who are all about blindness. They live and breathe it. However, I have also noticed that these are some of the most closed minded people refusing to see that there may be a better way of accomplishing a task. Just my personal observations but I have noticed that blind people can be some of the most cliquish people. Either you are in the inner circle as a favorite or their nose is turned up at you if you are not in their circle. Now, to me this seems hypocritical because these are some of the same people who are screaming to the world at large for fair treatment. ---- Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Arielle, > I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again. :) > I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own. > But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number, > who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives > are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone > else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes > get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist. > Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I > were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently > know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of > them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have > been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world. > And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly > spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle > themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know > a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I > know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case. > Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind > people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine. > It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good > to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors, > braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much > respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple, > all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have > the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they > so choose, a family. > That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people > for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a > social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do > outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge > people who make the blind community their primary social network. I > only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen > to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help > define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect > I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all > be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You > may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power > to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy. > Best, > Kirt > P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some > of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning > to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded > that way. > > On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > > Hi Kurt and all, > > > > I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff > > a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have > > similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part > > of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my > > blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends > > and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness > > stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk > > about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I > > don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is > > blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind > > person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted > > coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us > > prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities > > but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main > > community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these > > people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but > > again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to > > interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make > > an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we > > don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. > > > > Arielle > > > > On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> So very true. > >> > >> I remember being in the Mall Of America, > >> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a rolercoaster, > >> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. > >> > >> Councelors fought it out and won that one though, > >> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. > >> > >> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that is, > >> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used as > >> a > >> weapon." > >> > >> Jorge > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: > >> > >>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people just > >>> don't understand about blindness. > >>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> To: >>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 > >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > >>> > >>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your > >>> blindness-- > >>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments > >>> as > >>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, > >>> to the > >>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to > >>> answer > >>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other > >>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the > >>> discussion. > >>> > >>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, > >>> in a > >>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other > >>> interest. Ask > >>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. > >>> > >>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I > >>> think. > >>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not > >>> enjoy > >>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small > >>> section > >>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* > >>> > >>>> The Event of the Century > >>> > >>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's > >>> building > >>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do > >>> the same > >>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill > >>> air. > >>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, > >>> and we > >>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are > >>> seven > >>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be > >>> blind. > >>> > >>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating > >>> the > >>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it > >>> with our > >>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I > >>> call out, > >>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes > >>> from all > >>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way > >>> to the > >>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the > >>> cashier > >>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our > >>> friends > >>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. > >>> > >>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into > >>> a cup > >>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the > >>> soda > >>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine > >>> which > >>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take > >>> another step, > >>>> a stranger approaches me. > >>> > >>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. > >>> > >>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step > >>> around the > >>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I > >>> know > >>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the > >>>> island. > >>> > >>>> "It's this way," she says . > >>> > >>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." > >>> > >>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an > >>> open > >>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. > >>> > >>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I > >>> follow > >>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle > >>> happening > >>>> before her eyes. > >>> > >>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra > >>> says > >>>> as I approach the table. > >>> > >>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all > >>> use to > >>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have > >>> left > >>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has > >>> always > >>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and > >>> outdated > >>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism > >>> fresh. > >>> > >>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of > >>> being > >>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I > >>> very > >>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. > >>> I > >>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability > >>> to solve > >>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, > >>> but > >>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me > >>> exceptional. > >>> > >>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but > >>> because > >>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as > >>> a blind > >>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children > >>> because they > >>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a > >>> perceived > >>>> reality. > >>> > >>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew > >>> and > >>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological > >>> clock > >>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I > >>> talk > >>>> endlessly about them. > >>> > >>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is > >>> five and > >>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. > >>> Kensley is > >>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and > >>> then, she > >>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and > >>> full of > >>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have > >>> watched them > >>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them > >>> I see > >>>> where the future can lie. > >>> > >>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when > >>> people > >>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. > >>> > >>>> "How could you watch children?" > >>> > >>>> "Isn't it difficult?" > >>> > >>>> "Can blind people do that?" > >>> > >>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I > >>> respond > >>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. > >>> > >>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people > >>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a > >>> seven-year-old, > >>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be > >>> dead. > >>> > >>> > >>>> I wonder if people think about what they say. > >>> > >>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to > >>> them. My > >>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We > >>> think > >>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults > >>> can > >>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. > >>> > >>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for > >>> this, > >>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all > >>> day long. > >>> > >>> > >>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get > >>> Caiden to > >>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too > >>> many > >>>> video games you will go blind." > >>> > >>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. > >>> Look > >>>> at Aunt Bridgy." > >>> > >>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and > >>> nieces. > >>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the > >>> stereotypes > >>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through > >>> these > >>>> children, I know the effect is lasting. > >>> > >>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed > >>> because > >>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my > >>> house, she > >>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also > >>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of > >>> print. > >>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on > >>> them. > >>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to > >>> "be." > >>> > >>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe > >>> what > >>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my > >>> nephew and > >>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after > >>> blindness. > >>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. > >>> My > >>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view > >>> other > >>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and > >>> there is > >>>> no thought of limitations. > >>> > >>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not > >>> respond to > >>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly > >>> adjusted to > >>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting > >>> to be > >>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When > >>> they > >>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. > >>> Kensley > >>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, > >>> I am > >>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! > >>> > >>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I > >>> know > >>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their > >>> location > >>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand > >>> that > >>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with > >>> me. > >>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I > >>> can care > >>>> for them. > >>> > >>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The > >>> world > >>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability > >>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys > >>> into the > >>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, > >>> but, in > >>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. > >>> > >>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind > >>> and > >>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted > >>> as > >>>> though I had no clue. > >>> > >>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. > >>> > >>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." > >>> > >>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." > >>> > >>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." > >>> > >>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps > >>> of the > >>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to > >>> capture a > >>>> blind person out of their natural environment. > >>> > >>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. > >>> "Wow, it's > >>>> snowing again?" > >>> > >>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be > >>> your > >>>> sixth sense." > >>> > >>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" > >>> > >>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I > >>> can no > >>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I > >>> try to > >>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. > >>> > >>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the > >>> street. > >>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the > >>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a > >>> person > >>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a > >>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How > >>> many > >>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. > >>> > >>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip > >>> across. > >>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the > >>> right-away) > >>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the > >>> green, I > >>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the > >>> dot. > >>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of > >>> boredom. > >>> > >>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on > >>> Center > >>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into > >>> oncoming > >>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this > >>> Crazy Carla > >>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I > >>> had no > >>>> choice but to keep truckin'. > >>> > >>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and > >>> shouted, > >>>> "What the hell are you doing?" > >>> > >>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. > >>> > >>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have > >>> the > >>>> right-away. Shit!" > >>> > >>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out > >>> on > >>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. > >>> > >>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives > >>> you the > >>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" > >>> > >>>> "Can you make it home from here?" > >>> > >>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? > >>> > >>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting > >>> around > >>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" > >>> > >>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" > >>> > >>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" > >>> Grabbing > >>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. > >>> > >>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the > >>> perceptions > >>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was > >>> safely and > >>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed > >>> incapable by > >>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and > >>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, > >>> "Hmm, this > >>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they > >>> must be > >>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the > >>> blind girl > >>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. > >>> > >>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people > >>> enjoying each > >>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered > >>> the > >>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to > >>> thirty-five, > >>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome > >>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted > >>> companion. > >>> > >>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any > >>> other > >>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about > >>> what to > >>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing > >>> on the > >>>> television. > >>> > >>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. > >>> > >>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." > >>> > >>>> Message: 4 > >>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 > >>>> From: Darian Smith >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society > >>>> Message-ID: > >>>> > >>> >>> m > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can > >>> translate > >>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be > >>> considered as > >>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general > >>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people > >>> don't > >>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people > >>> deal > >>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing > >>> you want > >>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were > >>> on, and > >>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally > >>> didn't > >>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person > >>> trying to > >>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not > >>> require > >>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly > >>> annoyed > >>>> and/or taking > >>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk > >>> about > >>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil > >>> importance of > >>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How > >>> does > >>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life > >>> and > >>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? > >>> > >>>> Darian > >>> > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > >>> 5369%40netzero.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Arielle Silverman > > President, National Association of Blind Students > > Phone: 602-502-2255 > > Email: > > nabs.president at gmail.com > > Website: > > www.nabslink.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 22:13:49 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:13:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: <091C0FB496FE47718D0F77FE272EC513@stanford.edu> References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC> <091C0FB496FE47718D0F77FE272EC513@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <8D111687CDF041E886DD468BE839BC89@Rufus> I don't remember, but are crock pots allowed in dorm rooms? I think the variety of things you can make from a single appliance would triple or more if using a crock pot. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items Okay, so you cannot make everything in a microwave, but you can make most things. Most things that you boil, such as pasta or carrots, can be made in a microwave. You just need a container that is big enough that the water will not boil over and can withstand a lot of heat. I have a quart Pyrex pitcher that I use for boiling pasta or carrots. You also have to have somewhere to strain whatever you have boiled, so this may not be an option if you don't have a sink in your room or a dorm kitchen. Vegetables, both frozen and fresh, can be cooked in the microwave. The trick to cooking anything in the microwave is knowing how long to cook it for. Often, you have to rotate and/or stir whatever you are cooking, even if your microwave has a turn table and particularly if you are cooking something that is more than an inch deep, such as macaroni and cheese. Potatoes cook well in the microwave, as long as you do not over cook them. You can make grilled cheese sandwiches or mini pizzas with regular bread, English muffins, or any other type of bread. You can also use a mix of packaged food and fresh food. For example, you can make mini tuna casserole by cooking pasta, cooking carrots, and then mixing then together with cheese and a small can of tuna and then heating it again. Something else to note about cooking in the microwave is that somethings don't necessarily burn, but they get tough, such as bread/pizza or meat. Different microwaves cook things on different powers, and most microwaves have an option for controlling the power setting. Make sure that you know all of the functions that your microwave has and that you have it labeled in some way that you can access the ones that you want. Don't ever leave the room with the microwave running. If you ever smell smoke, stop the microwave, but don't open it. Let me know if you have any other questions. Nicole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items > Hi, nicole, > That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so > any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than > packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list > will benefit as well. Thanks! > Katie > > On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are >> often >> packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something >> quick >> once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of food. >> If >> anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave that >> don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. >> >> Nicole >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Arielle Silverman" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >>> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >>> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >>> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >>> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >>> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >>> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >>> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >>> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >>> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >>> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >>> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >>> problems. >>> >>> By the way, I just learned about a website called >>> www.directionsforme.com >>> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >>> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >>> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >>> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >>> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >>> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >>> pertinent drug information. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan but >>>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money go >>>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>>> >>>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>>> >>>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread in >>>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a loaf. >>>> >>>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining hall, >>>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>>> my room. >>>> >>>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience reasons >>>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is all >>>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>>> >>>> Cindy >>>> >>>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> wrote: >>>>> Chelsea, >>>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask >>>>> someone >>>>> the >>>>> expiration date? >>>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to worry >>>>> about. >>>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my >>>>> own >>>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe >>>>> you >>>>> buy >>>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>>> sometimes. >>>>> >>>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container >>>>> tight >>>>> after using it. >>>>> >>>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>>> a week at least. >>>>> >>>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or feel >>>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I don't >>>>> know. >>>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. >>>>> Like >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>>> >>>>> Hth, >>>>> Ashley >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me trouble. >>>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms of >>>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of writing >>>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Chelsea >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Chelsea Cook >>>>> >>>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom has >>>>> been reached through >>>>> the stars." >>>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cindy Bennett >>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>> 828.989.5383 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail. com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From jordyn2493 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 22:55:34 2011 From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:55:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items Message-ID: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> Hey all, I'm just looking for tips on how you all identify your different cards, like credit cards, state ID's, and other cards. Do most cards feel different? Also, do you just write down your different credit card numbers and expiration dates? I'm getting to the point now where I'm going to have to keep track of these things so I'm just wondering lol. Another random question: Do a lot of you have iBills or do you just prefer folding your money? Do you ever worry about a cashier tricking you and giving you the wrong bills or giving a cashier the wrong bills and not getting the correct change back? As of now, I fold my money but again, I'm just looking for your opinions. Thanks for your help! Jordyn From dwebster125 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 23:16:44 2011 From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 17:16:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items In-Reply-To: <766BAB084CBB43C08888F723F20783AB@stanford.edu> References: <19EC6A509E1D4C548F2B545CC472050D@OwnerPC><956E27B763F9441BB0ABFE663FA0FD85@stanford.edu> <766BAB084CBB43C08888F723F20783AB@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <000601cbd6d4$6741afc0$35c50f40$@gmail.com> When I went to point loma in san diego we use to have something called a micro fridge. It was a frig and a small freezer and then it had a microwave with a dial on top. It couldn't store a bunchof stuff but it was nice for small stuff. You could put drinds n it and it was fine. Now I live on my own and do ok.. --- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:54 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items I'm guessing not. Most colleges do not allow cooking things besides microwaves in dorm rooms. Some dorms have a dorm kitchen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items > The website > busycooks.about.com > has lots of great easy recipes, including a whole "microwave meals" > section and a whole "five ingredients or less" section. > > I'm not sure if these will work in dorm rooms, but George Foreman > grills are incredibly easy to use for cooking hamburgers or chicken > breasts. Just plug it in, put the meat inside, put the grease tray > underneath and take the meat out with a fork when it's done. > > Arielle > > On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote: >> Oh, and if you are cooking breakfast, eggs can also be cooked in the >> microwave, but not the best idea for a dorm room. If you do cook eggs, >> the >> best way is to scramble them and to keep stirring them. This is important >> for two reasons. First, they sometimes tend to kind of explode if you >> don't >> keep stirring them; very messy. Second, you end up with a ring of cooked >> egg >> around the outside and raw egg in the middle. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Katie Wang" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 10:53 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Easy but Bad Re: Parishable Food Items >> >> >>> Hi, nicole, >>> That's a very good point. I'm in the process of learning to cook so >>> any suggestions/tips about what to make in a microwave other than >>> packaged food would be much appreciated. I'm sure others on the list >>> will benefit as well. Thanks! >>> Katie >>> >>> On 2/27/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home >>> wrote: >>>> Just a friendly reminder that those easy-to-make microwave meals are >>>> often >>>> packed with sodium and other bad things. Not bad if you need something >>>> quick >>>> once in a while, but not the best thing to use as a main source of >>>> food. >>>> If >>>> anyone is interested in knowing how to make things in the microwave >>>> that >>>> don't just come out of a package, shoot me an email. >>>> >>>> Nicole >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:49 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I don't think you need to worry too much about expiration dates. Dairy >>>>> products will give a telltale smell and/or taste signal when it's time >>>>> to throw them away. In my experience, if the milk smells and tastes >>>>> fine, it won't make you sick. For uncooked meats and perishable foods >>>>> like restaurant leftovers, my mother's rule that I've always followed >>>>> is to eat it or freeze it within 3-4 days of getting it. I am not sure >>>>> if this rule is too strict but I have found it pretty easy to follow >>>>> with a little planning. Once food is frozen it can be stored safely >>>>> for a long time; just Braille your freezer bag or remember what it >>>>> feels like. Generally, I think just using some common sense like >>>>> keeping track of approximately when you bought something and paying >>>>> attention to the texture and smell of foods will prevent most >>>>> problems. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, I just learned about a website called >>>>> www.directionsforme.com >>>>> which contains a searchable database of food package labels. So you >>>>> can easily look up the preparation instructions for frozen meals, easy >>>>> mac, Ramen, etc. or even read ingredient lists and nutritional info if >>>>> you are so inclined. They also have package labels for >>>>> over-the-counter medications so you can verify how many Advil or cold >>>>> pills you need to take, how often you can safely redose and any other >>>>> pertinent drug information. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 2/26/11, Cindy Bennett wrote: >>>>>> I know exactly what you're going through. Mini fridges don't havev a >>>>>> lot of space, and especially the mini freezers in the top of the mini >>>>>> fridges don't always keep things frozen. And, being on a meal plan >>>>>> but >>>>>> wanting to have food options for when the meal plan is not convenient >>>>>> is hard to balance, because the meal plan was expensive, so you don't >>>>>> want to spend a lot of money on other food let alone see that money >>>>>> go >>>>>> to waste with food going bad. And that combined with the fact that a >>>>>> meal plan causes you to eat your own food less often can make things >>>>>> complicated. The previous advice is good. One thing that I have found >>>>>> that might be unique to where I go to school is that the perishable >>>>>> food found in the convenient stores on campus tends to expire sooner. >>>>>> I think this is the case because it wouldn't be efficient to keep >>>>>> ordering more stock when they don't sell it quickly, but purchasing >>>>>> food at the convenience stores is convenient, because you can use >>>>>> dollars from your meal plan. Like I said, especially at larger >>>>>> niversities with more on campus students, this might be less of a >>>>>> case, but if you've been having a problem with on campus stores, try >>>>>> some off campus. Also, when you go shopping, you can ask whoever is >>>>>> helping you to look for the latest expiration date available. >>>>>> Sometimes stores will place food that is closer to expiration towards >>>>>> the front of shelves which might hide longer lasting products behind. >>>>>> >>>>>> This might sound obvious, but if you bring home leftovers from a >>>>>> restaurant, take it out of the crappy styrofoam and store it in a >>>>>> sealable container. It will last way longer. >>>>>> >>>>>> And one thing that I have found for nonrefridgerated food such as >>>>>> bread is that keeping it in cabinets helps. You can even keep bread >>>>>> in >>>>>> the freezer for a while granted your freezer is big enough for a >>>>>> loaf. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I totally understand what you are going through, and for that >>>>>> reason, I found myself not really buying fruit, but grabbing a few >>>>>> extra pieces for the next couple of days when leaving the dining >>>>>> hall, >>>>>> and mainly consuming nonperishable foods such as soup or easy mac in >>>>>> my room. >>>>>> >>>>>> And you will probably notice that for money and/or convenience >>>>>> reasons >>>>>> that you will become less paranoid about food. I'm not saying you >>>>>> should do this with dairy products, but if pizza has been left out or >>>>>> something, I definitely consider it a second meal before throwing it >>>>>> out. I would have absolutely never done this before college. It is >>>>>> all >>>>>> about judgment and your comfort level. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cindy >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2/26/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Chelsea, >>>>>>> That is a little hard to know. If you're in a dorm, why not ask >>>>>>> someone >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> expiration date? >>>>>>> If you go shopping every two weeks, you probably have nothing to >>>>>>> worry >>>>>>> about. >>>>>>> Over time you'll sense when things go bad; as I haven't lived on my >>>>>>> own >>>>>>> much, living in the dorm with the new fridge was new to me too. >>>>>>> Generally, things have a certain shelf life. >>>>>>> Sounds like you mainly buy dairy products: yogurt, milk, etc. Maybe >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> buy >>>>>>> lunch meat and bread and cheese to have in place of cafeteria food, >>>>>>> sometimes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well for milk, I heard it lasts a few weeks. >>>>>>> You can smell or taste when it goes bad. >>>>>>> For yogurt, I imagine it would smell bad too. >>>>>>> Yogurt should last a couple weeks provided you seal the container >>>>>>> tight >>>>>>> after using it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lunch meat lasts over a week. Cheese sliced up lasts >>>>>>> a week at least. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One thing is I cannot tell if bread is moldy; it doesn't smell or >>>>>>> feel >>>>>>> different, unless its real gotten moldy, but just a little bit I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> know. >>>>>>> So I've just asked someone or relied on how long its been around. >>>>>>> Like >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> had this bread six days, its still good. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hth, >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Chelsea Cook >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 10:58 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Parishable Food Items >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One of the coolest things about college dorm rooms is ... the mini >>>>>>> fridge! However, the stuff I put into mine sometimes gives me >>>>>>> trouble. >>>>>>> How do you guys manage milk and yogurt and stuff like that in terms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> expiration dates? Usually, since it's just me, I go shopping about >>>>>>> every two weeks and try to get items that will expire in the same >>>>>>> window, but it's still tricky and I haven't gotten it down to a >>>>>>> science yet. (Play on words, haha!) Anyway, any tips short of >>>>>>> writing >>>>>>> down everything would be helpful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Chelsea >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Chelsea Cook >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Virginia Tech 2015; Physics Major >>>>>>> cook2010 at vt.edu >>>>>>> "I ask you to look both ways. For the road to a knowledge of the >>>>>>> stars leads through the atom; and important knowledge of the atom >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> been reached through >>>>>>> the stars." >>>>>>> Sir Arthur Eddington, British astrophysicist (1882-1944), Stars and >>>>>>> Atoms (1928), Lecture 1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Cindy Bennett >>>>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major >>>>>> >>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com >>>>>> 828.989.5383 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>>>> Email: >>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>>>> Website: >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail. com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail. com From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 23:21:50 2011 From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:21:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items In-Reply-To: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> References: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jordyn, A credit card will feel different from, say, a photo ID. I always know I have my Visa card by the raised numbers and letters on the front. Also, to answer your question about bills, I have a little device that puts Braille numbers on bills for me. Hope this Helps, Patrick On 2/27/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: > Hey all, > I'm just looking for tips on how you all identify your different cards, > like credit cards, state ID's, and other cards. Do most cards feel > different? Also, do you just write down your different credit card > numbers and expiration dates? I'm getting to the point now where I'm > going to have to keep track of these things so I'm just wondering lol. > Another random question: Do a lot of you have iBills or do you just > prefer folding your money? Do you ever worry about a cashier tricking > you and giving you the wrong bills or giving a cashier the wrong bills > and not getting the correct change back? As of now, I fold my money but > again, I'm just looking for your opinions. > Thanks for your help! > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun Feb 27 23:47:22 2011 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:47:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items In-Reply-To: References: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <11CCD208-8D7C-4B77-8DE9-45945AF06809@mac.com> Patric: What's the braille device called and how much would it cost? Thanks, Jorge On Feb 27, 2011, at 6:21 PM, Patrick Molloy wrote: > Jordyn, > A credit card will feel different from, say, a photo ID. I always know > I have my Visa card by the raised numbers and letters on the front. > Also, to answer your question about bills, I have a little device that > puts Braille numbers on bills for me. > Hope this Helps, > Patrick > > On 2/27/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: >> Hey all, >> I'm just looking for tips on how you all identify your different cards, >> like credit cards, state ID's, and other cards. Do most cards feel >> different? Also, do you just write down your different credit card >> numbers and expiration dates? I'm getting to the point now where I'm >> going to have to keep track of these things so I'm just wondering lol. >> Another random question: Do a lot of you have iBills or do you just >> prefer folding your money? Do you ever worry about a cashier tricking >> you and giving you the wrong bills or giving a cashier the wrong bills >> and not getting the correct change back? As of now, I fold my money but >> again, I'm just looking for your opinions. >> Thanks for your help! >> Jordyn >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Sun Feb 27 23:50:11 2011 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:50:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items In-Reply-To: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> References: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jordyn, I don't use an iBill; folding bills has never posed any problems for me. I usually carry small bills or use my debit card. As for credit cards, I use my slate and dymo tape to make a label for the numbers on the card. I also put different cards in their own compartment in my wallet. HTH -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items Hey all, I'm just looking for tips on how you all identify your different cards, like credit cards, state ID's, and other cards. Do most cards feel different? Also, do you just write down your different credit card numbers and expiration dates? I'm getting to the point now where I'm going to have to keep track of these things so I'm just wondering lol. Another random question: Do a lot of you have iBills or do you just prefer folding your money? Do you ever worry about a cashier tricking you and giving you the wrong bills or giving a cashier the wrong bills and not getting the correct change back? As of now, I fold my money but again, I'm just looking for your opinions. Thanks for your help! Jordyn _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com Anjelina From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Feb 27 23:58:05 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:58:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, you could just take your notes for your presentation on your BrailleNote. One more use for a Brailler--Statistics or other required Math course! Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College Brianna, Hi, well I don't agree with the obsolete statement. Its true that given the large amount of reading and new textbooks you have in college, audio formats will be your primary way of reading and obtaining information. You'll read slides/handouts from professors. You'll read your texts in audio format through RFB and/or electronic text. But you will certainly need braille and will use it daily, especially if you used braille to study in high school! Some are already auditory learners; others like me used braille a lot in public school and still do! You need a braille notetaker with a braille display! This way you can take notes and read them. As others have said, you can also download books and read them that way. Your english classes and perhaps history courses may require reading novels or parts of them. These novels may be available online. You can then download them to the computer and then to a thumb drive or SD card so you can put that into your notetaker and read. For instance using bookshare or web Braille from NLS. I had to read the Prince for history; I had to read some classics and novels for english including Death of a Salesman, The Glass Manassury, and To Kill a Mocking bird. Although I read them on audio format I'm sure they are also available in braille. As to the question of the embosser, that is up to you. Will you want to have hard copy braille of notes or handouts? Are you one who likes to see braille and read it down the page rather than linearly on a display? I have an old embosser; we did not get it through the agency though; I think we bought it used; I can;'t remember how my family got it for me. I use it sometimes; but use the display more. I find the embossed braille helpful to study particular concepts having odd spelled names or something difficult. Also to study something like Grammar in english or another language, I need braille and particularly hard copy braille! Audio just is not real helpful. So when you justify equipment, definitely have a way to access braille whether it be a display on your notetaker or a display hooked to a laptop or desktop. You may or may not need the embosser. But if you do not get that, you should have a braille writer, I mean the old fashioned perkins brailler! I say this because there will be some times where you need hard copy braille. Two instances: 1. you do a presentation and need notes in a speech class or something else. 2. You need to read something in class or you need to memorize something for an acting class or something. You'll want something hard copy then. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Brianna Scerenscko Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College Hello NABS Members, My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school and I never use it. Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. Thank You Brianna On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: > One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are > getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one > that > if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might > find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! > > > > Michelle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon Feb 28 00:03:38 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:03:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Message-ID: <20110228000338.18480.82024@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Someone once pointed something out to me, and I hate to have forgotten who it was because the point is absolutely brilliant. Basically, the idea is that there seems to be an unspoken belief out there that relationships with the sighted are somehow superior to relationships with the blind. Now, I'm speaking in terms of a blind person being the focus here. So how it seems to work out is that the more sighted friends you have, the more normal you are. The fewer sighted friends you have, the more you need to get a life. I don't think anyone here has ever said that explicitly, but I do think the implicit assumption is there whether we know it or not. I just want to make sure everyone knows that we should all judge our friendships based on how they contribute to our sense of well-being regardless of the perportions of blind and sighted friends we have. I've noticed a similar trend with careers. the more outside of the blindness field your career is, the more normal you are. The more inside the blindness field your career is, the less normal you are. Again, I think this is an assumption that opperates in the background without our knowledge. again, it should be stated that one should choose a career that best suits their talents and passions regardless of whether or not it is in the blindness field. Unfortunately, people tend to be steered in one direction or another for whatever reason. But the fact is that our Federation needs people in and out of the field in order to really change what it means to be blind. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Arielle, > I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again. :) > I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own. > But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number, > who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives > are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone > else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes > get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist. > Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I > were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently > know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of > them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have > been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world. > And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly > spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle > themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know > a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I > know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case. > Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind > people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine. > It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good > to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors, > braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much > respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple, > all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have > the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they > so choose, a family. > That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people > for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a > social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do > outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge > people who make the blind community their primary social network. I > only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen > to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help > define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect > I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all > be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You > may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power > to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy. > Best, > Kirt > P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some > of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning > to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded > that way. > On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Kurt and all, >> I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff >> a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have >> similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part >> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my >> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends >> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness >> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk >> about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I >> don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is >> blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind >> person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted >> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us >> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities >> but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main >> community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these >> people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but >> again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to >> interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make >> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we >> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. >> Arielle >> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> So very true. >>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, >>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a rolercoaster, >>> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. >>> Councelors fought it out and won that one though, >>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. >>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that is, >>> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used as >>> a >>> weapon." >>> Jorge >>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: >>>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people just >>>> don't understand about blindness. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> To: >>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >>>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your >>>> blindness-- >>>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments >>>> as >>>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, >>>> to the >>>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to >>>> answer >>>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the >>>> discussion. >>>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, >>>> in a >>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other >>>> interest. Ask >>>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I >>>> think. >>>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not >>>> enjoy >>>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small >>>> section >>>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >>>>> The Event of the Century >>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's >>>> building >>>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do >>>> the same >>>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill >>>> air. >>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, >>>> and we >>>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are >>>> seven >>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be >>>> blind. >>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating >>>> the >>>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it >>>> with our >>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I >>>> call out, >>>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes >>>> from all >>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way >>>> to the >>>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the >>>> cashier >>>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our >>>> friends >>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into >>>> a cup >>>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the >>>> soda >>>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine >>>> which >>>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take >>>> another step, >>>>> a stranger approaches me. >>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >>>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step >>>> around the >>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I >>>> know >>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>>>> island. >>>>> "It's this way," she says . >>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >>>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an >>>> open >>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I >>>> follow >>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle >>>> happening >>>>> before her eyes. >>>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >>>> says >>>>> as I approach the table. >>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all >>>> use to >>>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have >>>> left >>>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has >>>> always >>>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and >>>> outdated >>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism >>>> fresh. >>>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of >>>> being >>>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I >>>> very >>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. >>>> I >>>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability >>>> to solve >>>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, >>>> but >>>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me >>>> exceptional. >>>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but >>>> because >>>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as >>>> a blind >>>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children >>>> because they >>>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a >>>> perceived >>>>> reality. >>>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew >>>> and >>>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological >>>> clock >>>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I >>>> talk >>>>> endlessly about them. >>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is >>>> five and >>>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. >>>> Kensley is >>>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and >>>> then, she >>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and >>>> full of >>>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have >>>> watched them >>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them >>>> I see >>>>> where the future can lie. >>>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when >>>> people >>>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >>>>> "How could you watch children?" >>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" >>>>> "Can blind people do that?" >>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I >>>> respond >>>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >>>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a >>>> seven-year-old, >>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be >>>> dead. >>>>> I wonder if people think about what they say. >>>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to >>>> them. My >>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We >>>> think >>>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults >>>> can >>>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >>>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for >>>> this, >>>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all >>>> day long. >>>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get >>>> Caiden to >>>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too >>>> many >>>>> video games you will go blind." >>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. >>>> Look >>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." >>>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and >>>> nieces. >>>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the >>>> stereotypes >>>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through >>>> these >>>>> children, I know the effect is lasting. >>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed >>>> because >>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my >>>> house, she >>>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of >>>> print. >>>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on >>>> them. >>>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to >>>> "be." >>>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe >>>> what >>>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my >>>> nephew and >>>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after >>>> blindness. >>>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. >>>> My >>>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view >>>> other >>>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and >>>> there is >>>>> no thought of limitations. >>>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not >>>> respond to >>>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly >>>> adjusted to >>>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting >>>> to be >>>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When >>>> they >>>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. >>>> Kensley >>>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, >>>> I am >>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I >>>> know >>>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their >>>> location >>>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand >>>> that >>>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with >>>> me. >>>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >>>> can care >>>>> for them. >>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The >>>> world >>>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys >>>> into the >>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, >>>> but, in >>>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind >>>> and >>>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted >>>> as >>>>> though I had no clue. >>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >>>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps >>>> of the >>>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to >>>> capture a >>>>> blind person out of their natural environment. >>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. >>>> "Wow, it's >>>>> snowing again?" >>>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be >>>> your >>>>> sixth sense." >>>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I >>>> can no >>>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I >>>> try to >>>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >>>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the >>>> street. >>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a >>>> person >>>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How >>>> many >>>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >>>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip >>>> across. >>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the >>>> right-away) >>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the >>>> green, I >>>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the >>>> dot. >>>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of >>>> boredom. >>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on >>>> Center >>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into >>>> oncoming >>>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this >>>> Crazy Carla >>>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >>>> had no >>>>> choice but to keep truckin'. >>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and >>>> shouted, >>>>> "What the hell are you doing?" >>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >>>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have >>>> the >>>>> right-away. Shit!" >>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out >>>> on >>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives >>>> you the >>>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >>>>> "Can you make it home from here?" >>>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting >>>> around >>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >>>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" >>>> Grabbing >>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >>>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the >>>> perceptions >>>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was >>>> safely and >>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed >>>> incapable by >>>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, >>>> "Hmm, this >>>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they >>>> must be >>>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the >>>> blind girl >>>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >>>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people >>>> enjoying each >>>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered >>>> the >>>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to >>>> thirty-five, >>>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted >>>> companion. >>>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any >>>> other >>>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about >>>> what to >>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing >>>> on the >>>>> television. >>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >>>>> Message: 4 >>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>> m >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can >>>> translate >>>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be >>>> considered as >>>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people >>>> don't >>>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people >>>> deal >>>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing >>>> you want >>>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were >>>> on, and >>>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally >>>> didn't >>>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person >>>> trying to >>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not >>>> require >>>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly >>>> annoyed >>>>> and/or taking >>>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk >>>> about >>>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil >>>> importance of >>>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How >>>> does >>>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life >>>> and >>>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >>>>> Darian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From trising at sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 28 00:06:44 2011 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:06:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items References: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> Message-ID: My husband and I share an i-bill. We also fold our money because that is how we did things before the i-bill. We also have a little pocket money Brailler. Between the three methods, we know what our bills are. Terri and Nick Wilcox -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1637 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 00:19:01 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:19:01 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, The following is a link to an informitive conference call talking about the National Federation of the blind scholarship program. Chair of the scholarship committee, Patty chang speaks about this amazing oppertunity for blind students, and I encourage you to listen and spread the word! Thank you, Darian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: NabslinkAudioWebMaster Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:42:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Greetings! This is an automatic notification to let you know that our latest conference call has been uploaded, and is now ready for you to download. Title: The Nabs Conference Call For January 2011 Description: College semesters are in full swing again, and between books and other necessities, who doesn't need money in college? I know I did when I was in college, and I'm sure many of you do too. Luckily, the NFB has an awesome scholarship program, and Patty Chang, head of the scholarship committee, and others speak with us about this amazing program. Apply, and who knows? Maybe you'll win, learn more about the nfb, get to convention, and so much more! This is a call you don't want to miss. You can download the show directly at: http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations/January2011ConferenceCall.mp3 Alternatively you can visit the archive page at: http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations to hear some of the other calls we've done. Best regards, David Dunphy And The Nabs Membership Committee http://www.nabslinkaudio.org http://www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 01:21:33 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:21:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <20110228000338.18480.82024@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> References: <20110228000338.18480.82024@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: Jedi, I absolutely agree that friendships should be based on quality rather than being blind or sighted. And I echo your sentiments about working in or out of the blindness field. But I'd almost say the reverse of your other comment is true. I've definitely been just a little bit austricized by some blind people for not being blind enough. I know plenty of blind people who, it seems, think less of me because I choose to spend the majority of my time in the sighted world. I say it shouldn't matter. If you get along well with some people who happen to be blind, that's awesome. But I think that goes both ways. If I decide, as I've done, to socialize more with sighted friends who share my interests and who I get along with, the least I could ask for is understanding from the blind community. And sometimes I don't get it. Sometimes I'm told I need to be around other blind people more because they "understand" me. But I've found that my close friends, whether blind or sighted, understand me really about the same. And, looking at the culture as a whole, I think I fit in better with my school community than I do with the blind community. I understand lots of you probably have mostly blind friends, and that's great. I'm certainly not more successful or better than any of you because most of my friends happen to be sighted. But I'm not any worse, either. All the best, Kirt P.S. Again, I'm not upset with anyone on the NABS list. I appologize if I sound confrontational, I certainly don't intend to. On 2/27/11, Jedi wrote: > Someone once pointed something out to me, and I hate to have forgotten > who it was because the point is absolutely brilliant. Basically, the > idea is that there seems to be an unspoken belief out there that > relationships with the sighted are somehow superior to relationships > with the blind. Now, I'm speaking in terms of a blind person being the > focus here. So how it seems to work out is that the more sighted > friends you have, the more normal you are. The fewer sighted friends > you have, the more you need to get a life. > > I don't think anyone here has ever said that explicitly, but I do think > the implicit assumption is there whether we know it or not. I just want > to make sure everyone knows that we should all judge our friendships > based on how they contribute to our sense of well-being regardless of > the perportions of blind and sighted friends we have. > > I've noticed a similar trend with careers. the more outside of the > blindness field your career is, the more normal you are. The more > inside the blindness field your career is, the less normal you are. > Again, I think this is an assumption that opperates in the background > without our knowledge. again, it should be stated that one should > choose a career that best suits their talents and passions regardless > of whether or not it is in the blindness field. Unfortunately, people > tend to be steered in one direction or another for whatever reason. But > the fact is that our Federation needs people in and out of the field in > order to really change what it means to be blind. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Arielle, >> I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again. >> :) >> I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own. >> But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number, >> who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives >> are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone >> else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes >> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist. >> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I >> were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently >> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of >> them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have >> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world. >> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly >> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle >> themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know >> a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I >> know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case. >> Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind >> people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine. >> It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good >> to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors, >> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much >> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple, >> all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have >> the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they >> so choose, a family. >> That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people >> for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a >> social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do >> outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge >> people who make the blind community their primary social network. I >> only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen >> to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help >> define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect >> I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all >> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You >> may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power >> to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy. >> Best, >> Kirt >> P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some >> of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning >> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded >> that way. > >> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Kurt and all, > >>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff >>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have >>> similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part >>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my >>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends >>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness >>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk >>> about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I >>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is >>> blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind >>> person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted >>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us >>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities >>> but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main >>> community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these >>> people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but >>> again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to >>> interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make >>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we >>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. > >>> Arielle > >>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> So very true. > >>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, >>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a >>>> rolercoaster, >>>> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. > >>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one though, >>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. > >>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that >>>> is, >>>> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used >>>> as >>>> a >>>> weapon." > >>>> Jorge > > > >>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: > >>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people >>>>> just >>>>> don't understand about blindness. > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> To: >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > >>>>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your >>>>> blindness-- >>>>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments >>>>> as >>>>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, >>>>> to the >>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to >>>>> answer >>>>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>>>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the >>>>> discussion. > >>>>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, >>>>> in a >>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other >>>>> interest. Ask >>>>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. > >>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I >>>>> think. >>>>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not >>>>> enjoy >>>>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small >>>>> section >>>>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* > >>>>>> The Event of the Century > >>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's >>>>> building >>>>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do >>>>> the same >>>>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill >>>>> air. >>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, >>>>> and we >>>>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are >>>>> seven >>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be >>>>> blind. > >>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating >>>>> the >>>>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it >>>>> with our >>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I >>>>> call out, >>>>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes >>>>> from all >>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way >>>>> to the >>>>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the >>>>> cashier >>>>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our >>>>> friends >>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. > >>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into >>>>> a cup >>>>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the >>>>> soda >>>>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine >>>>> which >>>>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take >>>>> another step, >>>>>> a stranger approaches me. > >>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. > >>>>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step >>>>> around the >>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I >>>>> know >>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>>>>> island. > >>>>>> "It's this way," she says . > >>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." > >>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an >>>>> open >>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. > >>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I >>>>> follow >>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle >>>>> happening >>>>>> before her eyes. > >>>>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >>>>> says >>>>>> as I approach the table. > >>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all >>>>> use to >>>>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have >>>>> left >>>>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has >>>>> always >>>>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and >>>>> outdated >>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism >>>>> fresh. > >>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of >>>>> being >>>>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I >>>>> very >>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. >>>>> I >>>>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability >>>>> to solve >>>>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, >>>>> but >>>>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me >>>>> exceptional. > >>>>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but >>>>> because >>>>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as >>>>> a blind >>>>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children >>>>> because they >>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a >>>>> perceived >>>>>> reality. > >>>>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew >>>>> and >>>>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological >>>>> clock >>>>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I >>>>> talk >>>>>> endlessly about them. > >>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is >>>>> five and >>>>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. >>>>> Kensley is >>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and >>>>> then, she >>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and >>>>> full of >>>>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have >>>>> watched them >>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them >>>>> I see >>>>>> where the future can lie. > >>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when >>>>> people >>>>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. > >>>>>> "How could you watch children?" > >>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" > >>>>>> "Can blind people do that?" > >>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I >>>>> respond >>>>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. > >>>>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a >>>>> seven-year-old, >>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be >>>>> dead. > > >>>>>> I wonder if people think about what they say. > >>>>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to >>>>> them. My >>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We >>>>> think >>>>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults >>>>> can >>>>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. > >>>>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for >>>>> this, >>>>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all >>>>> day long. > > >>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get >>>>> Caiden to >>>>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too >>>>> many >>>>>> video games you will go blind." > >>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. >>>>> Look >>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." > >>>>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and >>>>> nieces. >>>>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the >>>>> stereotypes >>>>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through >>>>> these >>>>>> children, I know the effect is lasting. > >>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed >>>>> because >>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my >>>>> house, she >>>>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of >>>>> print. >>>>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on >>>>> them. >>>>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to >>>>> "be." > >>>>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe >>>>> what >>>>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my >>>>> nephew and >>>>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after >>>>> blindness. >>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. >>>>> My >>>>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view >>>>> other >>>>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and >>>>> there is >>>>>> no thought of limitations. > >>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not >>>>> respond to >>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly >>>>> adjusted to >>>>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting >>>>> to be >>>>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When >>>>> they >>>>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. >>>>> Kensley >>>>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, >>>>> I am >>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! > >>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I >>>>> know >>>>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their >>>>> location >>>>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand >>>>> that >>>>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with >>>>> me. >>>>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >>>>> can care >>>>>> for them. > >>>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The >>>>> world >>>>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>>>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys >>>>> into the >>>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, >>>>> but, in >>>>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. > >>>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind >>>>> and >>>>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted >>>>> as >>>>>> though I had no clue. > >>>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. > >>>>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." > >>>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." > >>>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." > >>>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps >>>>> of the >>>>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to >>>>> capture a >>>>>> blind person out of their natural environment. > >>>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. >>>>> "Wow, it's >>>>>> snowing again?" > >>>>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be >>>>> your >>>>>> sixth sense." > >>>>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" > >>>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I >>>>> can no >>>>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I >>>>> try to >>>>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. > >>>>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the >>>>> street. >>>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a >>>>> person >>>>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How >>>>> many >>>>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. > >>>>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip >>>>> across. >>>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the >>>>> right-away) >>>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the >>>>> green, I >>>>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the >>>>> dot. >>>>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of >>>>> boredom. > >>>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on >>>>> Center >>>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into >>>>> oncoming >>>>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this >>>>> Crazy Carla >>>>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >>>>> had no >>>>>> choice but to keep truckin'. > >>>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and >>>>> shouted, >>>>>> "What the hell are you doing?" > >>>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. > >>>>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have >>>>> the >>>>>> right-away. Shit!" > >>>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out >>>>> on >>>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. > >>>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives >>>>> you the >>>>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" > >>>>>> "Can you make it home from here?" > >>>>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? > >>>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting >>>>> around >>>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" > >>>>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" > >>>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" >>>>> Grabbing >>>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. > >>>>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the >>>>> perceptions >>>>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was >>>>> safely and >>>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed >>>>> incapable by >>>>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>>>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, >>>>> "Hmm, this >>>>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they >>>>> must be >>>>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the >>>>> blind girl >>>>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. > >>>>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people >>>>> enjoying each >>>>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered >>>>> the >>>>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to >>>>> thirty-five, >>>>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>>>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted >>>>> companion. > >>>>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any >>>>> other >>>>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about >>>>> what to >>>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing >>>>> on the >>>>>> television. > >>>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. > >>>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." > >>>>>> Message: 4 >>>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>>>>> Message-ID: > >>>>> >>>> m >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can >>>>> translate >>>>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be >>>>> considered as >>>>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>>>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people >>>>> don't >>>>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people >>>>> deal >>>>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing >>>>> you want >>>>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were >>>>> on, and >>>>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally >>>>> didn't >>>>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person >>>>> trying to >>>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not >>>>> require >>>>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly >>>>> annoyed >>>>>> and/or taking >>>>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk >>>>> about >>>>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil >>>>> importance of >>>>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How >>>>> does >>>>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life >>>>> and >>>>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? > >>>>>> Darian > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 01:24:39 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 20:24:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <20110228000338.18480.82024@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> References: <20110228000338.18480.82024@domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <895B5024A5D441FC94A10163391A00DA@Rufus> One day in college while waiting on a Greyhound I encountered a blind guy taking the same bus. We were talking about this and that, and when the subject of jobs came up, I told him I was still in school and thinking about going into public service after law school. He tried to evade my question of him but eventually admitted he worked at the Lighthouse. I asked why he seemed ashamed of where he worked. He said he knew he could be somewhere better. I pointed out that it did not matter where he worked, so long as he was employed. There's pride in being able to claim to have a job and earning one's own money, and if he knew he could be somewhere better, it was probably because he'd given thought to where he wanted to be and shouldn't stop until he achieved his ambition. I maintain my position that people who work in the blindness field, either willingly or through unforeseen circumstances, ought to keep their occupations in the context of the sighted world in which we live. The NFB philosophy understands that the blindness population is a small minority, that we will never experience a world where everything is laid out exactly how we would like it to be laid out, and so even though to the seasoned blindness professional everything is possible through the high expectations they've cultivated over the years, we can't forget that blind people are as diverse as the myriad of circumstances they are likely to encounter while among the general public. Although the majority of blind professionals are certainly not this way, I've met a few too many blindness professionals who carve out such a steep niche for themselves to the point of being snobs. I think I may've shared a story once of a fellow student who dropped a plate of food at the National Center and was mortified not because she'd dropped the plate but because she'd done so in front of a bunch of so-called distinguished blind leaders. I've never forgotten that incident, and honestly, it's made me feel a little edgy every time I've visited the National Center since then, because for all the talk of how it's supposed to be our Center, our home, it sure feels like you're being scrutinized under a microscope. Should we not have standards to help people become really highly independent persons? Of course not. That's why there's an ACB, but all I'm saying is to keep things in perspective. And, yes, I'm kidding about my jab at the ACB. No, I am not advancing the notion that blind people who work at the National Center, or any other blindness facility for that matter, are snobs. Yet, I feel there is a certain rigidity that develops from tackling the immense burden that is blindness education and advocacy, almost to the point where blindness development becomes polarized. However, this is not a blindness-specific mentality. It's a state that can impact any profession, because in my area of nonprofit development I am constantly surprised at the number of executive directors who become so swept up in their story of success that anything that deviates from their plot is inadequate and insufficient. In short, what's "normal" supposed to mean anyway? You went, or are going to, school to pursue your own dreams and aspirations. It took me a little while to figure out exactly what I wanted to do, and when I made my decision, I was something of a disappointment to my family and some friends. Nevertheless, I love the path I'm on now, and my point to you is to do what makes you get up in the morning, be it blindness-related or not. Pick friends that support you no matter where you head, people that get you, laugh with you and give you a healthy kick in the ass when you need it. Sometimes it'll be blind people. At other times it'll be sighted people, and sometimes it'll just be the person that happens to come by first. I'll tell you this much: Sighted people don't get it when I condemn JAWS to the deepest, darkest pit of all things technology that work my nerves, but this is only because other JAWS users can relate to my frustrations. This is no different from excitement I can only share with Sword of Truth fans who get it when I was eager that Terry Goodkind finally put out a new book. Anyway, just my two cents. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From bfs1206 at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 00:57:46 2011 From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:57:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for all the help everyone. On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Actually, you could just take your notes for your presentation on your > BrailleNote. One more use for a Brailler--Statistics or other required Math > course! > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College > > Brianna, > Hi, well I don't agree with the obsolete statement. > Its true that given the large amount of reading and new textbooks you have > in college, > audio formats will be your primary way of reading and obtaining information. > > You'll read slides/handouts from professors. You'll read your texts in audio > > format through RFB and/or electronic text. > > But you will certainly need braille and will use it daily, especially if you > > used braille to study in high school! Some are already auditory learners; > others like me used braille a lot in public school and still do! > You need a braille notetaker with a braille display! This way you can take > notes and read them. > As others have said, you can also download books and read them that way. > Your english classes and perhaps history courses may require reading novels > or parts of them. > These novels may be available online. You can then download them to the > computer and then to a thumb drive or SD card so you can put that into your > notetaker and read. > For instance using bookshare or web Braille from NLS. > I had to read the Prince for history; I had to read some classics and novels > > for english including Death of a Salesman, The Glass Manassury, and To Kill > a Mocking bird. > Although I read them on audio format I'm sure they are also available in > braille. > > As to the question of the embosser, that is up to you. > Will you want to have hard copy braille of notes or handouts? > Are you one who likes to see braille and read it down the page rather than > linearly on a display? > > I have an old embosser; we did not get it through the agency though; I think > > we bought it used; I can;'t remember how my family got it for me. > I use it sometimes; but use the display more. > I find the embossed braille helpful to study particular concepts having odd > spelled names or something difficult. > Also to study something like Grammar in english or another language, I need > braille and particularly hard copy braille! > Audio just is not real helpful. > > So when you justify equipment, definitely have a way to access braille > whether it be a display on your notetaker or a display hooked to a laptop or > > desktop. > You may or may not need the embosser. But if you do not get that, you > should have a braille writer, I mean the old fashioned perkins brailler! > I say this because there will be some times where you need hard copy > braille. > Two instances: > 1. you do a presentation and need notes in a speech class or something else. > 2. You need to read something in class or you need to memorize something for > > an acting class or something. > You'll want something hard copy then. > > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brianna Scerenscko > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Using A Braille Embosser In College > > Hello NABS Members, > My name is Brianna. I will be entering college next Fall and am > working on writing up my justification list of technology I will need > for college. I have spoken to three braille instructores that I know > and two of them said that braille kind of becomes opsalete and that > you mostly use audio formatts in college, but the third one said that > I will need a braille embosser. I have access to an embosser in school > and I never use it. > Any feedback would be extremely appreachiated. > Thank You > Brianna > > > On 2/26/11, Michelle Clark wrote: >> One of my members called a few days ago and was advised that rooms are >> getting low. It is my opinion that this Convention will not be the one >> that >> if one really wants to go to wait around to make arrangements. They might >> find themselves having to book at Motel of the Crabshack! >> >> >> >> Michelle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Feb 28 02:16:17 2011 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 21:16:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Kirt, I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on this list) who could definitely use better social skills. Keep in mind, though, many blind people who only talk about blindness may have additional disabilities that make social interaction difficult. I know plenty of these. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Arielle, I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again. :) I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own. But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number, who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist. Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world. And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case. Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine. It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors, braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple, all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they so choose, a family. That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge people who make the blind community their primary social network. I only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy. Best, Kirt P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded that way. On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Kurt and all, > > I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff > a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have > similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part > of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my > blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends > and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness > stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk > about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I > don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is > blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind > person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted > coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us > prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities > but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main > community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these > people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but > again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to > interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make > an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we > don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. > > Arielle > > On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> So very true. >> >> I remember being in the Mall Of America, >> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a rolercoaster, >> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. >> >> Councelors fought it out and won that one though, >> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. >> >> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that is, >> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used as >> a >> weapon." >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: >> >>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people just >>> don't understand about blindness. >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>> To: >>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >>> >>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your >>> blindness-- >>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments >>> as >>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, >>> to the >>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to >>> answer >>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the >>> discussion. >>> >>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, >>> in a >>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other >>> interest. Ask >>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >>> >>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I >>> think. >>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not >>> enjoy >>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small >>> section >>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >>> >>>> The Event of the Century >>> >>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's >>> building >>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do >>> the same >>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill >>> air. >>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, >>> and we >>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are >>> seven >>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be >>> blind. >>> >>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating >>> the >>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it >>> with our >>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I >>> call out, >>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes >>> from all >>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way >>> to the >>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the >>> cashier >>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our >>> friends >>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >>> >>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into >>> a cup >>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the >>> soda >>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine >>> which >>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take >>> another step, >>>> a stranger approaches me. >>> >>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >>> >>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step >>> around the >>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I >>> know >>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>>> island. >>> >>>> "It's this way," she says . >>> >>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >>> >>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an >>> open >>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >>> >>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I >>> follow >>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle >>> happening >>>> before her eyes. >>> >>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >>> says >>>> as I approach the table. >>> >>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all >>> use to >>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have >>> left >>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has >>> always >>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and >>> outdated >>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism >>> fresh. >>> >>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of >>> being >>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I >>> very >>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. >>> I >>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability >>> to solve >>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, >>> but >>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me >>> exceptional. >>> >>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but >>> because >>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as >>> a blind >>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children >>> because they >>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a >>> perceived >>>> reality. >>> >>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew >>> and >>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological >>> clock >>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I >>> talk >>>> endlessly about them. >>> >>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is >>> five and >>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. >>> Kensley is >>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and >>> then, she >>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and >>> full of >>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have >>> watched them >>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them >>> I see >>>> where the future can lie. >>> >>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when >>> people >>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >>> >>>> "How could you watch children?" >>> >>>> "Isn't it difficult?" >>> >>>> "Can blind people do that?" >>> >>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I >>> respond >>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >>> >>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a >>> seven-year-old, >>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be >>> dead. >>> >>> >>>> I wonder if people think about what they say. >>> >>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to >>> them. My >>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We >>> think >>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults >>> can >>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >>> >>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for >>> this, >>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all >>> day long. >>> >>> >>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get >>> Caiden to >>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too >>> many >>>> video games you will go blind." >>> >>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. >>> Look >>>> at Aunt Bridgy." >>> >>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and >>> nieces. >>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the >>> stereotypes >>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through >>> these >>>> children, I know the effect is lasting. >>> >>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed >>> because >>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my >>> house, she >>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of >>> print. >>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on >>> them. >>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to >>> "be." >>> >>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe >>> what >>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my >>> nephew and >>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after >>> blindness. >>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. >>> My >>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view >>> other >>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and >>> there is >>>> no thought of limitations. >>> >>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not >>> respond to >>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly >>> adjusted to >>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting >>> to be >>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When >>> they >>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. >>> Kensley >>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, >>> I am >>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >>> >>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I >>> know >>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their >>> location >>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand >>> that >>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with >>> me. >>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >>> can care >>>> for them. >>> >>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The >>> world >>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys >>> into the >>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, >>> but, in >>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >>> >>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind >>> and >>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted >>> as >>>> though I had no clue. >>> >>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >>> >>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >>> >>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >>> >>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >>> >>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps >>> of the >>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to >>> capture a >>>> blind person out of their natural environment. >>> >>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. >>> "Wow, it's >>>> snowing again?" >>> >>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be >>> your >>>> sixth sense." >>> >>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >>> >>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I >>> can no >>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I >>> try to >>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >>> >>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the >>> street. >>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a >>> person >>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How >>> many >>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >>> >>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip >>> across. >>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the >>> right-away) >>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the >>> green, I >>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the >>> dot. >>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of >>> boredom. >>> >>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on >>> Center >>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into >>> oncoming >>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this >>> Crazy Carla >>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >>> had no >>>> choice but to keep truckin'. >>> >>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and >>> shouted, >>>> "What the hell are you doing?" >>> >>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >>> >>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have >>> the >>>> right-away. Shit!" >>> >>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out >>> on >>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >>> >>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives >>> you the >>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >>> >>>> "Can you make it home from here?" >>> >>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >>> >>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting >>> around >>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >>> >>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >>> >>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" >>> Grabbing >>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >>> >>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the >>> perceptions >>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was >>> safely and >>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed >>> incapable by >>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, >>> "Hmm, this >>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they >>> must be >>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the >>> blind girl >>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >>> >>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people >>> enjoying each >>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered >>> the >>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to >>> thirty-five, >>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted >>> companion. >>> >>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any >>> other >>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about >>> what to >>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing >>> on the >>>> television. >>> >>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >>> >>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>>> From: Darian Smith >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>> >> m >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can >>> translate >>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be >>> considered as >>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people >>> don't >>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people >>> deal >>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing >>> you want >>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were >>> on, and >>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally >>> didn't >>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person >>> trying to >>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not >>> require >>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly >>> annoyed >>>> and/or taking >>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk >>> about >>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil >>> importance of >>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How >>> does >>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life >>> and >>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >>> >>>> Darian >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>> 5369%40netzero.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma il.com >> > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 02:23:40 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:23:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Serena, Absolutely. I'm talking about those whose only diagnosed disability is blindness. But certainly their sense of entitlement, laziness, low expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be considered disabilities, in their own right. On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Hi Kirt, > > I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on this list) who could > definitely use better social skills. Keep in mind, though, many blind > people who only talk about blindness may have additional disabilities that > make social interaction difficult. I know plenty of these. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > > Arielle, > I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again. :) > I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own. > But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number, > who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives > are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone > else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes > get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist. > Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I > were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently > know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of > them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have > been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world. > And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly > spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle > themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know > a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I > know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case. > Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind > people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine. > It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good > to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors, > braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much > respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple, > all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have > the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they > so choose, a family. > That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people > for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a > social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do > outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge > people who make the blind community their primary social network. I > only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen > to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help > define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect > I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all > be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You > may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power > to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy. > Best, > Kirt > P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some > of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning > to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded > that way. > > On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Kurt and all, >> >> I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff >> a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have >> similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part >> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my >> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends >> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness >> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk >> about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I >> don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is >> blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind >> person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted >> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us >> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities >> but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main >> community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these >> people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but >> again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to >> interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make >> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we >> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> So very true. >>> >>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, >>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a rolercoaster, >>> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. >>> >>> Councelors fought it out and won that one though, >>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. >>> >>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that > is, >>> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used > as >>> a >>> weapon." >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: >>> >>>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people > just >>>> don't understand about blindness. >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>> To: >>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >>>> >>>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your >>>> blindness-- >>>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments >>>> as >>>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, >>>> to the >>>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to >>>> answer >>>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the >>>> discussion. >>>> >>>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, >>>> in a >>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other >>>> interest. Ask >>>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >>>> >>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I >>>> think. >>>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not >>>> enjoy >>>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small >>>> section >>>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >>>> >>>>> The Event of the Century >>>> >>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's >>>> building >>>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do >>>> the same >>>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill >>>> air. >>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, >>>> and we >>>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are >>>> seven >>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be >>>> blind. >>>> >>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating >>>> the >>>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it >>>> with our >>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I >>>> call out, >>>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes >>>> from all >>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way >>>> to the >>>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the >>>> cashier >>>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our >>>> friends >>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >>>> >>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into >>>> a cup >>>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the >>>> soda >>>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine >>>> which >>>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take >>>> another step, >>>>> a stranger approaches me. >>>> >>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >>>> >>>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step >>>> around the >>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I >>>> know >>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>>>> island. >>>> >>>>> "It's this way," she says . >>>> >>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >>>> >>>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an >>>> open >>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >>>> >>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I >>>> follow >>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle >>>> happening >>>>> before her eyes. >>>> >>>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >>>> says >>>>> as I approach the table. >>>> >>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all >>>> use to >>>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have >>>> left >>>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has >>>> always >>>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and >>>> outdated >>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism >>>> fresh. >>>> >>>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of >>>> being >>>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I >>>> very >>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. >>>> I >>>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability >>>> to solve >>>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, >>>> but >>>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me >>>> exceptional. >>>> >>>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but >>>> because >>>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as >>>> a blind >>>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children >>>> because they >>>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a >>>> perceived >>>>> reality. >>>> >>>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew >>>> and >>>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological >>>> clock >>>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I >>>> talk >>>>> endlessly about them. >>>> >>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is >>>> five and >>>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. >>>> Kensley is >>>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and >>>> then, she >>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and >>>> full of >>>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have >>>> watched them >>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them >>>> I see >>>>> where the future can lie. >>>> >>>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when >>>> people >>>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >>>> >>>>> "How could you watch children?" >>>> >>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" >>>> >>>>> "Can blind people do that?" >>>> >>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I >>>> respond >>>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >>>> >>>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a >>>> seven-year-old, >>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be >>>> dead. >>>> >>>> >>>>> I wonder if people think about what they say. >>>> >>>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to >>>> them. My >>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We >>>> think >>>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults >>>> can >>>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >>>> >>>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for >>>> this, >>>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all >>>> day long. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get >>>> Caiden to >>>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too >>>> many >>>>> video games you will go blind." >>>> >>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. >>>> Look >>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." >>>> >>>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and >>>> nieces. >>>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the >>>> stereotypes >>>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through >>>> these >>>>> children, I know the effect is lasting. >>>> >>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed >>>> because >>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my >>>> house, she >>>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of >>>> print. >>>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on >>>> them. >>>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to >>>> "be." >>>> >>>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe >>>> what >>>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my >>>> nephew and >>>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after >>>> blindness. >>>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. >>>> My >>>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view >>>> other >>>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and >>>> there is >>>>> no thought of limitations. >>>> >>>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not >>>> respond to >>>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly >>>> adjusted to >>>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting >>>> to be >>>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When >>>> they >>>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. >>>> Kensley >>>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, >>>> I am >>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >>>> >>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I >>>> know >>>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their >>>> location >>>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand >>>> that >>>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with >>>> me. >>>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >>>> can care >>>>> for them. >>>> >>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The >>>> world >>>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys >>>> into the >>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, >>>> but, in >>>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >>>> >>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind >>>> and >>>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted >>>> as >>>>> though I had no clue. >>>> >>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >>>> >>>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >>>> >>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >>>> >>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >>>> >>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps >>>> of the >>>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to >>>> capture a >>>>> blind person out of their natural environment. >>>> >>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. >>>> "Wow, it's >>>>> snowing again?" >>>> >>>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be >>>> your >>>>> sixth sense." >>>> >>>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >>>> >>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I >>>> can no >>>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I >>>> try to >>>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >>>> >>>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the >>>> street. >>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a >>>> person >>>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How >>>> many >>>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >>>> >>>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip >>>> across. >>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the >>>> right-away) >>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the >>>> green, I >>>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the >>>> dot. >>>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of >>>> boredom. >>>> >>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on >>>> Center >>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into >>>> oncoming >>>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this >>>> Crazy Carla >>>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >>>> had no >>>>> choice but to keep truckin'. >>>> >>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and >>>> shouted, >>>>> "What the hell are you doing?" >>>> >>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >>>> >>>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have >>>> the >>>>> right-away. Shit!" >>>> >>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out >>>> on >>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >>>> >>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives >>>> you the >>>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >>>> >>>>> "Can you make it home from here?" >>>> >>>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >>>> >>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting >>>> around >>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >>>> >>>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >>>> >>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" >>>> Grabbing >>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >>>> >>>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the >>>> perceptions >>>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was >>>> safely and >>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed >>>> incapable by >>>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, >>>> "Hmm, this >>>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they >>>> must be >>>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the >>>> blind girl >>>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >>>> >>>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people >>>> enjoying each >>>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered >>>> the >>>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to >>>> thirty-five, >>>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted >>>> companion. >>>> >>>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any >>>> other >>>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about >>>> what to >>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing >>>> on the >>>>> television. >>>> >>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >>>> >>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >>>> >>>>> Message: 4 >>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>> >>> m >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can >>>> translate >>>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be >>>> considered as >>>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people >>>> don't >>>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people >>>> deal >>>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing >>>> you want >>>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were >>>> on, and >>>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally >>>> didn't >>>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person >>>> trying to >>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not >>>> require >>>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly >>>> annoyed >>>>> and/or taking >>>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk >>>> about >>>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil >>>> importance of >>>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How >>>> does >>>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life >>>> and >>>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >>>> >>>>> Darian >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > il.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 02:32:30 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:32:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To all, I have to appologize for my last email. Most blind people, even the ones that frustrate me to no end, deserve more respect than I just gave. I can only think of a few to whom all my last blanket statements apply. Best, Kirt On 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Serena, > Absolutely. I'm talking about those whose only diagnosed disability > is blindness. But certainly their sense of entitlement, laziness, low > expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be considered > disabilities, in their own right. > > On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >> Hi Kirt, >> >> I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on this list) who could >> definitely use better social skills. Keep in mind, though, many blind >> people who only talk about blindness may have additional disabilities >> that >> make social interaction difficult. I know plenty of these. >> >> Serena >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >> >> Arielle, >> I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again. >> :) >> I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own. >> But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number, >> who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives >> are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone >> else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes >> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist. >> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I >> were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently >> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of >> them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have >> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world. >> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly >> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle >> themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know >> a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I >> know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case. >> Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind >> people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine. >> It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good >> to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors, >> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much >> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple, >> all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have >> the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they >> so choose, a family. >> That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people >> for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a >> social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do >> outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge >> people who make the blind community their primary social network. I >> only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen >> to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help >> define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect >> I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all >> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You >> may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power >> to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy. >> Best, >> Kirt >> P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some >> of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning >> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded >> that way. >> >> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Kurt and all, >>> >>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff >>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have >>> similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part >>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my >>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends >>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness >>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk >>> about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I >>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is >>> blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind >>> person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted >>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us >>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities >>> but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main >>> community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these >>> people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but >>> again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to >>> interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make >>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we >>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> So very true. >>>> >>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, >>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a >>>> rolercoaster, >>>> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us. >>>> >>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one though, >>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. >>>> >>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that >> is, >>>> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used >> as >>>> a >>>> weapon." >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote: >>>> >>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people >> just >>>>> don't understand about blindness. >>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>> To: >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >>>>> >>>>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your >>>>> blindness-- >>>>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments >>>>> as >>>>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain, >>>>> to the >>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to >>>>> answer >>>>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other >>>>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the >>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to, >>>>> in a >>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other >>>>> interest. Ask >>>>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins. >>>>> >>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I >>>>> think. >>>>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not >>>>> enjoy >>>>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small >>>>> section >>>>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile* >>>>> >>>>>> The Event of the Century >>>>> >>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's >>>>> building >>>>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do >>>>> the same >>>>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill >>>>> air. >>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold, >>>>> and we >>>>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are >>>>> seven >>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be >>>>> blind. >>>>> >>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating >>>>> the >>>>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it >>>>> with our >>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I >>>>> call out, >>>>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes >>>>> from all >>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way >>>>> to the >>>>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the >>>>> cashier >>>>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our >>>>> friends >>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best. >>>>> >>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into >>>>> a cup >>>>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the >>>>> soda >>>>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine >>>>> which >>>>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take >>>>> another step, >>>>>> a stranger approaches me. >>>>> >>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >>>>> >>>>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step >>>>> around the >>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I >>>>> know >>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the >>>>>> island. >>>>> >>>>>> "It's this way," she says . >>>>> >>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am." >>>>> >>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an >>>>> open >>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks. >>>>> >>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I >>>>> follow >>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle >>>>> happening >>>>>> before her eyes. >>>>> >>>>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >>>>> says >>>>>> as I approach the table. >>>>> >>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all >>>>> use to >>>>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have >>>>> left >>>>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has >>>>> always >>>>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and >>>>> outdated >>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism >>>>> fresh. >>>>> >>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of >>>>> being >>>>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I >>>>> very >>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am. >>>>> I >>>>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability >>>>> to solve >>>>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else, >>>>> but >>>>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me >>>>> exceptional. >>>>> >>>>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but >>>>> because >>>>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as >>>>> a blind >>>>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children >>>>> because they >>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a >>>>> perceived >>>>>> reality. >>>>> >>>>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew >>>>> and >>>>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological >>>>> clock >>>>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I >>>>> talk >>>>>> endlessly about them. >>>>> >>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is >>>>> five and >>>>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart. >>>>> Kensley is >>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and >>>>> then, she >>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and >>>>> full of >>>>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have >>>>> watched them >>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them >>>>> I see >>>>>> where the future can lie. >>>>> >>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when >>>>> people >>>>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces. >>>>> >>>>>> "How could you watch children?" >>>>> >>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" >>>>> >>>>>> "Can blind people do that?" >>>>> >>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I >>>>> respond >>>>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be. >>>>> >>>>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people >>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a >>>>> seven-year-old, >>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be >>>>> dead. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I wonder if people think about what they say. >>>>> >>>>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to >>>>> them. My >>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We >>>>> think >>>>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults >>>>> can >>>>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me. >>>>> >>>>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for >>>>> this, >>>>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all >>>>> day long. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get >>>>> Caiden to >>>>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too >>>>> many >>>>>> video games you will go blind." >>>>> >>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind. >>>>> Look >>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." >>>>> >>>>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and >>>>> nieces. >>>>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the >>>>> stereotypes >>>>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through >>>>> these >>>>>> children, I know the effect is lasting. >>>>> >>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed >>>>> because >>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my >>>>> house, she >>>>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also >>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of >>>>> print. >>>>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on >>>>> them. >>>>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to >>>>> "be." >>>>> >>>>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe >>>>> what >>>>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my >>>>> nephew and >>>>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after >>>>> blindness. >>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are. >>>>> My >>>>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view >>>>> other >>>>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and >>>>> there is >>>>>> no thought of limitations. >>>>> >>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not >>>>> respond to >>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly >>>>> adjusted to >>>>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting >>>>> to be >>>>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When >>>>> they >>>>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands. >>>>> Kensley >>>>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them, >>>>> I am >>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food! >>>>> >>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I >>>>> know >>>>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their >>>>> location >>>>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand >>>>> that >>>>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with >>>>> me. >>>>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >>>>> can care >>>>>> for them. >>>>> >>>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The >>>>> world >>>>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability >>>>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys >>>>> into the >>>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior, >>>>> but, in >>>>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions. >>>>> >>>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind >>>>> and >>>>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted >>>>> as >>>>>> though I had no clue. >>>>> >>>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >>>>> >>>>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk." >>>>> >>>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed." >>>>> >>>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff." >>>>> >>>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps >>>>> of the >>>>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to >>>>> capture a >>>>>> blind person out of their natural environment. >>>>> >>>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face. >>>>> "Wow, it's >>>>>> snowing again?" >>>>> >>>>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be >>>>> your >>>>>> sixth sense." >>>>> >>>>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?" >>>>> >>>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I >>>>> can no >>>>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I >>>>> try to >>>>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day. >>>>> >>>>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the >>>>> street. >>>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the >>>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a >>>>> person >>>>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a >>>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How >>>>> many >>>>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case. >>>>> >>>>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip >>>>> across. >>>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the >>>>> right-away) >>>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the >>>>> green, I >>>>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the >>>>> dot. >>>>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of >>>>> boredom. >>>>> >>>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on >>>>> Center >>>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into >>>>> oncoming >>>>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this >>>>> Crazy Carla >>>>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >>>>> had no >>>>>> choice but to keep truckin'. >>>>> >>>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and >>>>> shouted, >>>>>> "What the hell are you doing?" >>>>> >>>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question. >>>>> >>>>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have >>>>> the >>>>>> right-away. Shit!" >>>>> >>>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out >>>>> on >>>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again. >>>>> >>>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives >>>>> you the >>>>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?" >>>>> >>>>>> "Can you make it home from here?" >>>>> >>>>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf? >>>>> >>>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting >>>>> around >>>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?" >>>>> >>>>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?" >>>>> >>>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!" >>>>> Grabbing >>>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex. >>>>> >>>>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the >>>>> perceptions >>>>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was >>>>> safely and >>>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed >>>>> incapable by >>>>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and >>>>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking, >>>>> "Hmm, this >>>>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they >>>>> must be >>>>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the >>>>> blind girl >>>>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought. >>>>> >>>>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people >>>>> enjoying each >>>>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered >>>>> the >>>>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to >>>>> thirty-five, >>>>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome >>>>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted >>>>> companion. >>>>> >>>>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any >>>>> other >>>>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about >>>>> what to >>>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing >>>>> on the >>>>>> television. >>>>> >>>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks. >>>>> >>>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >>>>> >>>>>> Message: 4 >>>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800 >>>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> m >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can >>>>> translate >>>>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be >>>>> considered as >>>>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general >>>>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people >>>>> don't >>>>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people >>>>> deal >>>>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing >>>>> you want >>>>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were >>>>> on, and >>>>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally >>>>> didn't >>>>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person >>>>> trying to >>>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not >>>>> require >>>>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly >>>>> annoyed >>>>>> and/or taking >>>>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk >>>>> about >>>>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil >>>>> importance of >>>>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How >>>>> does >>>>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life >>>>> and >>>>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along? >>>>> >>>>>> Darian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma >> il.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma >> il.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> n.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 04:06:15 2011 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 23:06:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items In-Reply-To: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> References: <4D6AD666.6000302@gmail.com> Message-ID: I definitely think an iBill, or some money identifyer, would be helpful, because sometimes my money gets mixed up, and I have to ask someone. I have a wallet with a bunch of different pockets, I fold it, or I organize it so that my money is in a stack from smallest to largest bills, but this is hard, because you have to remember how many of each bill you have, but it is convenient if you want to keep money in your pocket or in a pouch on your key ring or something. I just don't like to carry around purses, so that's why I do that, but again, not always wise. You could keep different bills in pockets too. I personally don't label my cards, but I haven't had to thus far. My credit cards feel different, one is more slick than the other, but putting a sticker on one wouldn't be a bad idea. I would just be sure and have someone make sure you don't put the sticker over your signature or over any of the numbers on the back. I have a braille list of all of my credit card information. I keep this at home, because typically, you don't need this information when you're out, because you'll use your physical card. And, I haven't really ever felt like I got ripped off, but that's just my experience. If you look confident when you're making a financial transaction, then that will help, but that is where using a credit card instead of cash might help. You can check your bank statements online to make sure your idea of what you spent lines up with the bank has record of. Cindy On 2/27/11, Jordyn Castor wrote: > Hey all, > I'm just looking for tips on how you all identify your different cards, > like credit cards, state ID's, and other cards. Do most cards feel > different? Also, do you just write down your different credit card > numbers and expiration dates? I'm getting to the point now where I'm > going to have to keep track of these things so I'm just wondering lol. > Another random question: Do a lot of you have iBills or do you just > prefer folding your money? Do you ever worry about a cashier tricking > you and giving you the wrong bills or giving a cashier the wrong bills > and not getting the correct change back? As of now, I fold my money but > again, I'm just looking for your opinions. > Thanks for your help! > Jordyn > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > -- Cindy Bennett uNC Wilmington Psychology major clb5590 at gmail.com 828.989.5383 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Feb 28 05:18:14 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 00:18:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteering for the public Message-ID: Hi all, I thought I’d ask here as well because this list has more subscribers. I want to volunteer to gain experience for my resume and hopefully use some skills I will use on a job when I am employed. I have a BA but getting a job is hard in this economy. I like outreach and helping people. Therefore I want to serve the public. I am thinking at the Smithsonian museums perhaps or another museum, another tourist attraction, or maybe even the White House visitors’ center. But I cannot find the link for the white house information. So if anyone has it, let me know. I want to have communication with the public in person and on the phone. I want to also do other communications work such as writing press releases, press letters, newsletters and brochures. What volunteer experiences have you had doing these sort of things? What were your duties? How can you handle things like greeting guests or papers if you work at a front desk? I don’t think there is a perfect secure way to handle people in terms of having them sign in and telling me certain info. I am concerned that they could slip by me without my notice. I have tunnel vision. Often desk staff have to see people and say “can I help you?” or something. I’m not sure how I can modify this so I can do it. Of course I may not be at the front desk; but many positions have you assist at the front desk, I’m sure. Thanks. Ashley From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Feb 28 17:17:13 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:17:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <738975.18563.qm@web162018.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hello Kirt, There is know need to ve to appologize since pretty much everything you said in your previous email is mostly true. I just commend you for having the courage to speak the trouth and for saying what I and I spect a few other blind people think in a public blind list. But pretty much I agree with everything you said about most blind people feeling the need of entitlement, suffering from laziness,and having low expectation and how all this can be classified as related to their disability. Frankly this frustrates me to know extend. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 8:32 PM > To all, >   I have to appologize for my last email.  Most > blind people, even the > ones that frustrate me to no end, deserve more respect than > I just > gave.  I can only think of a few to whom all my last > blanket > statements apply. >   Best, > Kirt > > On 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring > wrote: > > Serena, > >   Absolutely.  I'm talking about > those whose only diagnosed disability > > is blindness.  But certainly their sense of > entitlement, laziness, low > > expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be > considered > > disabilities, in their own right. > > > > On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco > wrote: > >> Hi Kirt, > >> > >> I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on > this list) who could > >> definitely use better social skills.  Keep in > mind, though, many blind > >> people who only talk about blindness may have > additional disabilities > >> that > >> make social interaction difficult.  I know > plenty of these. > >> > >> Serena > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf > >> Of Kirt Manwaring > >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > >> > >> Arielle, > >>   I really shouldn't beat a dead > horse senseless.  But here I go again. > >> :) > >>   I suppose, strictly speaking, > you're right.  To each his/her own. > >> But I know plenty of blind people, a > disproportionately large number, > >> who don't know how to interact with the sighted > public.  Their lives > >> are blindness.  And they don't ever interact > with anything, or anyone > >> else.  It's no wonder, then, that we as a > blind community sometimes > >> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, > and even eletist. > >> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing > about blindness, and I > >> were to meet at random one of the blind people who > I currently > >> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed > enough to think of > >> them as an equal.  Because, let's face it, > too many blind people have > >> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in > the sighted world. > >> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, > (maybe explicitly > >> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know > how to handle > >> themselves with sighted people when they need > to.  I think we all know > >> a good number of blind people who fit the > description I just gave.  I > >> know far too many.  So, on that front, I rest > my case. > >>   Now let's move on to the other > issues you raised.  For those blind > >> people who want blindness to basically be their > whole identity...fine. > >>  It's not my place to say they shouldn't do > that.  It's certainly good > >> to see qualified blind people working as cane > travel instructors, > >> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc.  And > I have just as much > >> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would > for a sighted couple, > >> all other factors being equal, provided the blind > spouses both have > >> the skills they need to independently manage a > marriage and, if they > >> so choose, a family. > >>   That being said, I've taken a lot > of heat from lots of blind people > >> for not being "involved" enough.  Never mind > I'm in school, I have a > >> social life at school, and I have lots of other > things I want to do > >> outside the blind community.  As I've said, > I'm not going to judge > >> people who make the blind community their primary > social network.  I > >> only ask for that to go both ways.  Blindness > is not me, I just happen > >> to be blind along with all the plethora of other > things that help > >> define me.  Unfortunately, often times I > don't get the same respect > >> I'm trying to give.  Y'all do your thing, > I'll do mine.  And let's all > >> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring > to the table.  You > >> may choose to live your life primarily with blind > people, more power > >> to you!  I choose not to, and all I want is > that same courtesy. > >>   Best, > >> Kirt > >> P.S.  Arielle, that was in no way directed > against you.  Just...some > >> of my frustrations about some other people came > out.  I'm not meaning > >> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive > me if it sounded > >> that way. > >> > >> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >>> Hi Kurt and all, > >>> > >>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone > talks about blindness stuff > >>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't > necessarily mean they will have > >>> similarly narrow conversation when with > sighted people. Being a part > >>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) > I can attest that my > >>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness > and my Jewish friends > >>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't > talk about the blindness > >>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. > I also tend to talk > >>> about psychology a lot with my grad student > and faculty colleagues. I > >>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's > primary identity is > >>> blindness, they work in the blindness field > and they marry a blind > >>> person, as long as they're able to get along > OK with sighted > >>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they > need to. Some of us > >>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or > multiple social communities > >>> but others are perfectly content with a few > friends or one main > >>> community and I don't think it's our place to > pass judgment on these > >>> people. I can understand the concerns about > our public image, but > >>> again I think that boils down to how well the > blind person is able to > >>> interact with sighted people when they need > to. I think we should make > >>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted > people around us, but we > >>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as > our friends. > >>> > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez > wrote: > >>>> So very true. > >>>> > >>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, > >>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of > the councelers on a > >>>> rolercoaster, > >>>> and they tried to force an adult > administrator to go with us. > >>>> > >>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one > though, > >>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. > >>>> > >>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a > plane--the flight attendance that > >> is, > >>>> said my cane had to be stored in the > overhead because it could "be used > >> as > >>>> a > >>>> weapon." > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into > stories like that. I know, people > >> just > >>>>> don't understand about blindness. > >>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 > 18:02:23 -0600 > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in > society > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is a total drag when people > want to only talk about your > >>>>> blindness-- > >>>>>> as though you have nothing to > offer.  I try to view these moments > >>>>> as > >>>>>> educational opportunities.  I > kindly and diplomatically explain, > >>>>> to the > >>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind > people "do" things.  I try to > >>>>> answer > >>>>>> questions, but then turn the > conversation around to discuss other > >>>>>> matters.  Find opportunities > in conversations to change the > >>>>> discussion. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is not always easy.  I do > think it is perfectly acceptable to, > >>>>> in a > >>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that > blind people have other > >>>>> interest.  Ask > >>>>>> the person questions so a > back-and-forth begins. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that > exemplifies this discussion, I > >>>>> think. > >>>>>> There is a section with some > strong language so if you do not > >>>>> enjoy > >>>>>> strong language, you may want to > skip this.  It is only a small > >>>>> section > >>>>>> that includes the language.  > Enjoy.  *smile* > >>>>> > >>>>>> The Event of the Century > >>>>> > >>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I > cane along the Fuddrucker's > >>>>> building > >>>>>> with my long white cane searching > for the door.  My friends do > >>>>> the same > >>>>>> with their canes.  The scent > of grease filters through the chill > >>>>> air. > >>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a > hamburger joint.  We are cold, > >>>>> and we > >>>>>> are hungry.  Finding the > door, we all scurry inside.  We are > >>>>> seven > >>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a > good time-we all happen to be > >>>>> blind. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap > our white canes investigating > >>>>> the > >>>>>> restaurant.  Ross, my > husband, and I find a wall and follow it > >>>>> with our > >>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth > against the wall.  "Hey guys," I > >>>>> call out, > >>>>>> "I believe this is the > counter."  The click of cane tips echoes > >>>>> from all > >>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, > Jamie and Carol find their way > >>>>> to the > >>>>>> counter.  Since the menu is > not available in Braille, I ask the > >>>>> cashier > >>>>>> to please read the choices out > loud.  Ross and I order as our > >>>>> friends > >>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see > often, decide what sounds best. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the > soda fountain.  Ice chinks into > >>>>> a cup > >>>>>> and I follow the sound.  I > encounter an island separating the > >>>>> soda > >>>>>> fountain from where I stand.  > Pausing for a second, I determine > >>>>> which > >>>>>> direction to walk around the > island, but before I can take > >>>>> another step, > >>>>>> a stranger approaches me. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "No thanks.  I'm just going > to fill my cup," I say. As I step > >>>>> around the > >>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can > tell she is hesitating.  Before I > >>>>> know > >>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of > my coat and yanks me around the > >>>>>> island. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "It's this way," she says . > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction > I was moving in, ma'am." > >>>>> > >>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my > friends move past looking for an > >>>>> open > >>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" > she asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, > we don't have a companion."  I > >>>>> follow > >>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger > alone to ponder the miracle > >>>>> happening > >>>>>> before her eyes. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "The freak show's out.  > Everyone should grab their camera," Audra > >>>>> says > >>>>>> as I approach the table. > >>>>> > >>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't > mean to be rude, but we are all > >>>>> use to > >>>>>> this reaction when in > public.  The amazing blind people who have > >>>>> left > >>>>>> the security of their homes!  > Yes, I am cynical, but this has > >>>>> always > >>>>>> been a part of my character.  > Encountering ridiculous ideas and > >>>>> outdated > >>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a > daily basis, keeps my cynicism > >>>>> fresh. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have > thought the hardest part of > >>>>> being > >>>>>> blind was dealing with society's > perceptions and attitudes.  I > >>>>> very > >>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, > and it is a part of who I am. > >>>>> I > >>>>>> accept it just as I accept the > color of my hair or my inability > >>>>> to solve > >>>>>> a math equation quickly.  I > am no more amazing than anyone else, > >>>>> but > >>>>>> because I do things without > vision, it suddenly makes me > >>>>> exceptional. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is difficult to be around > people, not because I am blind, but > >>>>> because > >>>>>> others usually have problems > accepting me as a person and not as > >>>>> a blind > >>>>>> person.  Sometimes, I would > rather spend time with children > >>>>> because they > >>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and > not doubt because of a > >>>>> perceived > >>>>>> reality. > >>>>> > >>>>>> My favorite past time these days > is spending time with my nephew > >>>>> and > >>>>>> nieces.  I must have the baby > bug or something-- the biological > >>>>> clock > >>>>>> and all.  They bring joy to > my life, and yes, I must admit, I > >>>>> talk > >>>>>> endlessly about them. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too > smart for his own good.  Chloe is > >>>>> five and > >>>>>> extremely independent, but she > loves with her whole heart. > >>>>> Kensley is > >>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest > temperament, but every now and > >>>>> then, she > >>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer > in her eyes.  Penny is one and > >>>>> full of > >>>>>> energy, but I have become a > surrogate mother to her. I have > >>>>> watched them > >>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real > people, and it is through them > >>>>> I see > >>>>>> where the future can lie. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares > and hesitant concerns when > >>>>> people > >>>>>> find out that I frequently watch > my nephew and nieces. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "How could you watch children?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can blind people do that?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, > and depending on my mood, I > >>>>> respond > >>>>>> accordingly.  I do not > believe how insulting people can be. > >>>>> > >>>>>> When I take the kids to the park > or the mall or on a walk, people > >>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding > me around.  Yes, a > >>>>> seven-year-old, > >>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a > baby guide me.  We would all be > >>>>> dead. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I wonder if people think about > what they say. > >>>>> > >>>>>> The kids never question my > abilities.  Blindness is normal to > >>>>> them.  My > >>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, > Chloe, Kensley and Penny.  We > >>>>> think > >>>>>> children have mental limitations, > but they understand what adults > >>>>> can > >>>>>> not.  My babies accept me and > do not doubt their safety with me. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden loves to play video > games.  I think he is a bit young for > >>>>> this, > >>>>>> but what do adults know, > right?  If allowed, he would play all > >>>>> day long. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the > kids, and in an attempt to get > >>>>> Caiden to > >>>>>> stop the game and play outside, > she told him, "If you play too > >>>>> many > >>>>>> video games you will go blind." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, > it's not a big deal to be blind. > >>>>> Look > >>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." > >>>>> > >>>>>> With these words, I realize the > impact I have on my nephew and > >>>>> nieces. > >>>>>> They are the beginning of a > generation that can break the > >>>>> stereotypes > >>>>>> about blindness.  The efforts > I make seem so small, but through > >>>>> these > >>>>>> children, I know the effect is > lasting. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to > walking around with her eyes closed > >>>>> because > >>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt > Bridgy." Every time she is at my > >>>>> house, she > >>>>>> insists on using a white cane to > walk around with.  She is also > >>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants > to learn this tactile form of > >>>>> print. > >>>>>> Every where she goes, she points > out signs that have Braille on > >>>>> them. > >>>>>> She has no fear.  To Chloe, > blindness is just another way to > >>>>> "be." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Children are not caught up in > their perceptions, but will believe > >>>>> what > >>>>>> you tell them at face value.  > Exposure to me has allowed my > >>>>> nephew and > >>>>>> nieces to learn and understand > that life does not stop after > >>>>> blindness. > >>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children > accept people for who they are. > >>>>> My > >>>>>> children accept me as capable and > confident-the way they view > >>>>> other > >>>>>> adults in their lives.  In > their eyes, I am no different, and > >>>>> there is > >>>>>> no thought of limitations. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still > grasping the fact that I do not > >>>>> respond to > >>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their > heads.  Both have quickly > >>>>> adjusted to > >>>>>> finding other means in which to > express their wants. When wanting > >>>>> to be > >>>>>> held, they come to me and place > their arms around my legs.  When > >>>>> they > >>>>>> want to show me something like a > toy, they place it in my hands. > >>>>> Kensley > >>>>>> and Penny do not question my > ability to care for them.  To them, > >>>>> I am > >>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, > and of course I am food! > >>>>> > >>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to > the back of their clothing so I > >>>>> know > >>>>>> where they are, but usually their > gibber-gabber gives their > >>>>> location > >>>>>> away.  As Penny and Kensley > learn to speak, they will understand > >>>>> that > >>>>>> they must use their words, and not > gestures, to communicate with > >>>>> me. > >>>>>> These two will grow up never > thinking I am odd, or doubt that I > >>>>> can care > >>>>>> for them. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not > see beyond my blindness.  The > >>>>> world > >>>>>> created a reality in which > blindness is a debilitating disability > >>>>>> leaving one limited and to be > pitied.  True, not everyone buys > >>>>> into the > >>>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not > everyone believes me inferior, > >>>>> but, in > >>>>>> my experience, most people still > cling to old notions. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and > a man approached me from behind > >>>>> and > >>>>>> declared, "You are amazing!"  > I knew what he meant, but I acted > >>>>> as > >>>>>> though I had no clue. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "You get around so well.  It > is truly amazing you can walk." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not > paralyzed." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you > don't run into stuff." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I > would."  I proceeded down the steps > >>>>> of the > >>>>>> fine arts building. Following > behind me, he seemed poised to > >>>>> capture a > >>>>>> blind person out of their natural > environment. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall > lightly on my head and face. > >>>>> "Wow, it's > >>>>>> snowing again?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "See, you're amazing!  How do > you know it's snowing?  It must be > >>>>> your > >>>>>> sixth sense." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "No, I feel it.  Can't you?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I > take, but there are times when I > >>>>> can no > >>>>>> longer deal with the attitudes > forced on me.  I try to educate-I > >>>>> try to > >>>>>> be positive, but watch out if you > catch me on a bad day. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I stood, a few months ago,  > waiting at the curb to cross the > >>>>> street. > >>>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center > street in front of me, and the > >>>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my > right, I prepare to cross.  As a > >>>>> person > >>>>>> who is blind, I listen to the > sound of traffic to help me cross a > >>>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do > this.  Still not sure?  How > >>>>> many > >>>>>> sighted people get into > accidents?  I rest my case. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Once the light changes, it won't > stay green long, and I must zip > >>>>> across. > >>>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red > light (red as in I have the > >>>>> right-away) > >>>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds > long, but when traffic has the > >>>>> green, I > >>>>>> stand here forever.  I > checked the time, three o' clock on the > >>>>> dot. > >>>>>> Come on.  I tapped my long > white cane on the pavement out of > >>>>> boredom. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow > from behind.  With cars on > >>>>> Center > >>>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed > pedestrian forces me into > >>>>> oncoming > >>>>>> traffic.  I could not stop, > so I continue this farce as this > >>>>> Crazy Carla > >>>>>> dragged me across the > street.  Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I > >>>>> had no > >>>>>> choice but to keep truckin'. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped > the strangers hand away and > >>>>> shouted, > >>>>>> "What the hell are you doing?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, > ignoring my question. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Are you insane?  You can > see, right?  Clearly we did not have > >>>>> the > >>>>>> right-away.  Shit!" > >>>>> > >>>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore,  > was about to meet her fate back out > >>>>> on > >>>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my > arm again. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I > know you?  No, so what gives > >>>>> you the > >>>>>> idea I want a complete stranger > touching me?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can you make it home from here?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> I stared in her direction.  > Is she deaf? > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good.  How > the hell do you think I was getting > >>>>> around > >>>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove > me across the street?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Have a good day.  Ya' sure > you can get home okay?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I > shouted, "O-H MY GOD!  Fuck you!" > >>>>> Grabbing > >>>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped > towards my apartment complex. > >>>>> > >>>>>> No, I am not proud of such > outburst, but I don't accept the > >>>>> perceptions > >>>>>> society has constructed about > blindness either.  I, who was > >>>>> safely and > >>>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy > city street, was assumed > >>>>> incapable by > >>>>>> a sighted person who threw caution > to the wind and placed me, and > >>>>>> themselves, into a dangerous > situation.  Instead of thinking, > >>>>> "Hmm, this > >>>>>> person is blind, but they are out > and about on their own, they > >>>>> must be > >>>>>> okay-they must know what they are > doing," they only "see" the > >>>>> blind girl > >>>>>> standing alone and do not get past > that thought. > >>>>> > >>>>>> My friends all have similar > stories.  We are seven people > >>>>> enjoying each > >>>>>> other's company, but because we > are all blind, it is considered > >>>>> the > >>>>>> event of the century. We range in > age from twenty-five to > >>>>> thirty-five, > >>>>>> some of us have children, all of > us work, but it is an awesome > >>>>>> accomplishment that we are > socializing without a sighted > >>>>> companion. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is even more incredible that > our conversation sounds like any > >>>>> other > >>>>>> conversation.  This confuses > our server as the girls talk about > >>>>> what to > >>>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk > about the football game playing > >>>>> on the > >>>>>> television. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he > asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Message: 4 > >>>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 > -0800 > >>>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in > society > >>>>>> Message-ID: > >>>>>>     > >>>>> > >>>>> m > >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> So, I was thinking about how  > what we learn in the NFb can > >>>>> translate > >>>>>> into society.  For > example,  socializing, we want to be > >>>>> considered as > >>>>>> "normal" as the next person, but > often we are asked the  general > >>>>>> blindness related questions, > not  ina bad way, but because people > >>>>> don't > >>>>>> understand something and want to > know  what we do.  How do people > >>>>> deal > >>>>>> with this?  Say, you really > had a long day, and the last thing > >>>>> you want > >>>>>> to hear is something related to > blindness, but the grammys were > >>>>> on, and > >>>>>> you wouldn't mind talking > about  how a certain pop star finally > >>>>> didn't > >>>>>> win something *smile*.  > Or,  you have the weel-meaning person > >>>>> trying to > >>>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've > made it clear  that you do not > >>>>> require > >>>>>> said assistance? How do you  > handle this without getting  fairly > >>>>> annoyed > >>>>>> and/or taking > >>>>>> it to be more serious than > it's  simply ment.   I know we talk > >>>>> about > >>>>>> the  importance of educating > the public, yet   the equil > >>>>> importance of > >>>>>> stressing > normality.   How have people handled  > these ideas?  How > >>>>> does > >>>>>> one  operate keeping in mind > the ideas of both living one's life > >>>>> and > >>>>>> keep in mind the next blind person > that comes along? > >>>>> > >>>>>>   Darian > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info > >>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > >> il.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Arielle Silverman > >>> President, National Association of Blind > Students > >>> Phone:  602-502-2255 > >>> Email: > >>> nabs.president at gmail.com > >>> Website: > >>> www.nabslink.org > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > >> il.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > >> n.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com > From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon Feb 28 17:18:05 2011 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:18:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Message-ID: <50332.31859.qm@web162010.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hello Kirt, There is know need to ve to appologize since pretty much everything you said in your previous email is mostly true. I just commend you for having the courage to speak t I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 8:32 PM > To all, >   I have to appologize for my last email.  Most > blind people, even the > ones that frustrate me to no end, deserve more respect than > I just > gave.  I can only think of a few to whom all my last > blanket > statements apply. >   Best, > Kirt > > On 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring > wrote: > > Serena, > >   Absolutely.  I'm talking about > those whose only diagnosed disability > > is blindness.  But certainly their sense of > entitlement, laziness, low > > expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be > considered > > disabilities, in their own right. > > > > On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco > wrote: > >> Hi Kirt, > >> > >> I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on > this list) who could > >> definitely use better social skills.  Keep in > mind, though, many blind > >> people who only talk about blindness may have > additional disabilities > >> that > >> make social interaction difficult.  I know > plenty of these. > >> > >> Serena > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf > >> Of Kirt Manwaring > >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > >> > >> Arielle, > >>   I really shouldn't beat a dead > horse senseless.  But here I go again. > >> :) > >>   I suppose, strictly speaking, > you're right.  To each his/her own. > >> But I know plenty of blind people, a > disproportionately large number, > >> who don't know how to interact with the sighted > public.  Their lives > >> are blindness.  And they don't ever interact > with anything, or anyone > >> else.  It's no wonder, then, that we as a > blind community sometimes > >> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, > and even eletist. > >> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing > about blindness, and I > >> were to meet at random one of the blind people who > I currently > >> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed > enough to think of > >> them as an equal.  Because, let's face it, > too many blind people have > >> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in > the sighted world. > >> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, > (maybe explicitly > >> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know > how to handle > >> themselves with sighted people when they need > to.  I think we all know > >> a good number of blind people who fit the > description I just gave.  I > >> know far too many.  So, on that front, I rest > my case. > >>   Now let's move on to the other > issues you raised.  For those blind > >> people who want blindness to basically be their > whole identity...fine. > >>  It's not my place to say they shouldn't do > that.  It's certainly good > >> to see qualified blind people working as cane > travel instructors, > >> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc.  And > I have just as much > >> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would > for a sighted couple, > >> all other factors being equal, provided the blind > spouses both have > >> the skills they need to independently manage a > marriage and, if they > >> so choose, a family. > >>   That being said, I've taken a lot > of heat from lots of blind people > >> for not being "involved" enough.  Never mind > I'm in school, I have a > >> social life at school, and I have lots of other > things I want to do > >> outside the blind community.  As I've said, > I'm not going to judge > >> people who make the blind community their primary > social network.  I > >> only ask for that to go both ways.  Blindness > is not me, I just happen > >> to be blind along with all the plethora of other > things that help > >> define me.  Unfortunately, often times I > don't get the same respect > >> I'm trying to give.  Y'all do your thing, > I'll do mine.  And let's all > >> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring > to the table.  You > >> may choose to live your life primarily with blind > people, more power > >> to you!  I choose not to, and all I want is > that same courtesy. > >>   Best, > >> Kirt > >> P.S.  Arielle, that was in no way directed > against you.  Just...some > >> of my frustrations about some other people came > out.  I'm not meaning > >> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive > me if it sounded > >> that way. > >> > >> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >>> Hi Kurt and all, > >>> > >>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone > talks about blindness stuff > >>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't > necessarily mean they will have > >>> similarly narrow conversation when with > sighted people. Being a part > >>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) > I can attest that my > >>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness > and my Jewish friends > >>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't > talk about the blindness > >>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. > I also tend to talk > >>> about psychology a lot with my grad student > and faculty colleagues. I > >>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's > primary identity is > >>> blindness, they work in the blindness field > and they marry a blind > >>> person, as long as they're able to get along > OK with sighted > >>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they > need to. Some of us > >>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or > multiple social communities > >>> but others are perfectly content with a few > friends or one main > >>> community and I don't think it's our place to > pass judgment on these > >>> people. I can understand the concerns about > our public image, but > >>> again I think that boils down to how well the > blind person is able to > >>> interact with sighted people when they need > to. I think we should make > >>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted > people around us, but we > >>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as > our friends. > >>> > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez > wrote: > >>>> So very true. > >>>> > >>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, > >>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of > the councelers on a > >>>> rolercoaster, > >>>> and they tried to force an adult > administrator to go with us. > >>>> > >>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one > though, > >>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. > >>>> > >>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a > plane--the flight attendance that > >> is, > >>>> said my cane had to be stored in the > overhead because it could "be used > >> as > >>>> a > >>>> weapon." > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into > stories like that. I know, people > >> just > >>>>> don't understand about blindness. > >>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 > 18:02:23 -0600 > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in > society > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is a total drag when people > want to only talk about your > >>>>> blindness-- > >>>>>> as though you have nothing to > offer.  I try to view these moments > >>>>> as > >>>>>> educational opportunities.  I > kindly and diplomatically explain, > >>>>> to the > >>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind > people "do" things.  I try to > >>>>> answer > >>>>>> questions, but then turn the > conversation around to discuss other > >>>>>> matters.  Find opportunities > in conversations to change the > >>>>> discussion. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is not always easy.  I do > think it is perfectly acceptable to, > >>>>> in a > >>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that > blind people have other > >>>>> interest.  Ask > >>>>>> the person questions so a > back-and-forth begins. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that > exemplifies this discussion, I > >>>>> think. > >>>>>> There is a section with some > strong language so if you do not > >>>>> enjoy > >>>>>> strong language, you may want to > skip this.  It is only a small > >>>>> section > >>>>>> that includes the language.  > Enjoy.  *smile* > >>>>> > >>>>>> The Event of the Century > >>>>> > >>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I > cane along the Fuddrucker's > >>>>> building > >>>>>> with my long white cane searching > for the door.  My friends do > >>>>> the same > >>>>>> with their canes.  The scent > of grease filters through the chill > >>>>> air. > >>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a > hamburger joint.  We are cold, > >>>>> and we > >>>>>> are hungry.  Finding the > door, we all scurry inside.  We are > >>>>> seven > >>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a > good time-we all happen to be > >>>>> blind. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap > our white canes investigating > >>>>> the > >>>>>> restaurant.  Ross, my > husband, and I find a wall and follow it > >>>>> with our > >>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth > against the wall.  "Hey guys," I > >>>>> call out, > >>>>>> "I believe this is the > counter."  The click of cane tips echoes > >>>>> from all > >>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, > Jamie and Carol find their way > >>>>> to the > >>>>>> counter.  Since the menu is > not available in Braille, I ask the > >>>>> cashier > >>>>>> to please read the choices out > loud.  Ross and I order as our > >>>>> friends > >>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see > often, decide what sounds best. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the > soda fountain.  Ice chinks into > >>>>> a cup > >>>>>> and I follow the sound.  I > encounter an island separating the > >>>>> soda > >>>>>> fountain from where I stand.  > Pausing for a second, I determine > >>>>> which > >>>>>> direction to walk around the > island, but before I can take > >>>>> another step, > >>>>>> a stranger approaches me. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "No thanks.  I'm just going > to fill my cup," I say. As I step > >>>>> around the > >>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can > tell she is hesitating.  Before I > >>>>> know > >>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of > my coat and yanks me around the > >>>>>> island. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "It's this way," she says . > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction > I was moving in, ma'am." > >>>>> > >>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my > friends move past looking for an > >>>>> open > >>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" > she asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, > we don't have a companion."  I > >>>>> follow > >>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger > alone to ponder the miracle > >>>>> happening > >>>>>> before her eyes. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "The freak show's out.  > Everyone should grab their camera," Audra > >>>>> says > >>>>>> as I approach the table. > >>>>> > >>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't > mean to be rude, but we are all > >>>>> use to > >>>>>> this reaction when in > public.  The amazing blind people who have > >>>>> left > >>>>>> the security of their homes!  > Yes, I am cynical, but this has > >>>>> always > >>>>>> been a part of my character.  > Encountering ridiculous ideas and > >>>>> outdated > >>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a > daily basis, keeps my cynicism > >>>>> fresh. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have > thought the hardest part of > >>>>> being > >>>>>> blind was dealing with society's > perceptions and attitudes.  I > >>>>> very > >>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, > and it is a part of who I am. > >>>>> I > >>>>>> accept it just as I accept the > color of my hair or my inability > >>>>> to solve > >>>>>> a math equation quickly.  I > am no more amazing than anyone else, > >>>>> but > >>>>>> because I do things without > vision, it suddenly makes me > >>>>> exceptional. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is difficult to be around > people, not because I am blind, but > >>>>> because > >>>>>> others usually have problems > accepting me as a person and not as > >>>>> a blind > >>>>>> person.  Sometimes, I would > rather spend time with children > >>>>> because they > >>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and > not doubt because of a > >>>>> perceived > >>>>>> reality. > >>>>> > >>>>>> My favorite past time these days > is spending time with my nephew > >>>>> and > >>>>>> nieces.  I must have the baby > bug or something-- the biological > >>>>> clock > >>>>>> and all.  They bring joy to > my life, and yes, I must admit, I > >>>>> talk > >>>>>> endlessly about them. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too > smart for his own good.  Chloe is > >>>>> five and > >>>>>> extremely independent, but she > loves with her whole heart. > >>>>> Kensley is > >>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest > temperament, but every now and > >>>>> then, she > >>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer > in her eyes.  Penny is one and > >>>>> full of > >>>>>> energy, but I have become a > surrogate mother to her. I have > >>>>> watched them > >>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real > people, and it is through them > >>>>> I see > >>>>>> where the future can lie. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares > and hesitant concerns when > >>>>> people > >>>>>> find out that I frequently watch > my nephew and nieces. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "How could you watch children?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can blind people do that?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, > and depending on my mood, I > >>>>> respond > >>>>>> accordingly.  I do not > believe how insulting people can be. > >>>>> > >>>>>> When I take the kids to the park > or the mall or on a walk, people > >>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding > me around.  Yes, a > >>>>> seven-year-old, > >>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a > baby guide me.  We would all be > >>>>> dead. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I wonder if people think about > what they say. > >>>>> > >>>>>> The kids never question my > abilities.  Blindness is normal to > >>>>> them.  My > >>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, > Chloe, Kensley and Penny.  We > >>>>> think > >>>>>> children have mental limitations, > but they understand what adults > >>>>> can > >>>>>> not.  My babies accept me and > do not doubt their safety with me. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden loves to play video > games.  I think he is a bit young for > >>>>> this, > >>>>>> but what do adults know, > right?  If allowed, he would play all > >>>>> day long. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the > kids, and in an attempt to get > >>>>> Caiden to > >>>>>> stop the game and play outside, > she told him, "If you play too > >>>>> many > >>>>>> video games you will go blind." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, > it's not a big deal to be blind. > >>>>> Look > >>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." > >>>>> > >>>>>> With these words, I realize the > impact I have on my nephew and > >>>>> nieces. > >>>>>> They are the beginning of a > generation that can break the > >>>>> stereotypes > >>>>>> about blindness.  The efforts > I make seem so small, but through > >>>>> these > >>>>>> children, I know the effect is > lasting. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to > walking around with her eyes closed > >>>>> because > >>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt > Bridgy." Every time she is at my > >>>>> house, she > >>>>>> insists on using a white cane to > walk around with.  She is also > >>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants > to learn this tactile form of > >>>>> print. > >>>>>> Every where she goes, she points > out signs that have Braille on > >>>>> them. > >>>>>> She has no fear.  To Chloe, > blindness is just another way to > >>>>> "be." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Children are not caught up in > their perceptions, but will believe > >>>>> what > >>>>>> you tell them at face value.  > Exposure to me has allowed my > >>>>> nephew and > >>>>>> nieces to learn and understand > that life does not stop after > >>>>> blindness. > >>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children > accept people for who they are. > >>>>> My > >>>>>> children accept me as capable and > confident-the way they view > >>>>> other > >>>>>> adults in their lives.  In > their eyes, I am no different, and > >>>>> there is > >>>>>> no thought of limitations. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still > grasping the fact that I do not > >>>>> respond to > >>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their > heads.  Both have quickly > >>>>> adjusted to > >>>>>> finding other means in which to > express their wants. When wanting > >>>>> to be > >>>>>> held, they come to me and place > their arms around my legs.  When > >>>>> they > >>>>>> want to show me something like a > toy, they place it in my hands. > >>>>> Kensley > >>>>>> and Penny do not question my > ability to care for them.  To them, > >>>>> I am > >>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, > and of course I am food! > >>>>> > >>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to > the back of their clothing so I > >>>>> know > >>>>>> where they are, but usually their > gibber-gabber gives their > >>>>> location > >>>>>> away.  As Penny and Kensley > learn to speak, they will understand > >>>>> that From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 17:32:05 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:32:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: <738975.18563.qm@web162018.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <738975.18563.qm@web162018.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm not quite sure that's what I took away from Kirt's e-mail. Yes, I'm sure there are blind people with low expectations and a sense of entitlement resulting from their disability, but I don't know that every blind unemployed person out there has found themselves in this situation on account of being lazy or for lack of trying. I've known three highly competent blind people who were unemployed for a period of time for no other reason than the poor state of the job market. That being said, the job market will remain competitive even when the economy bounces back, and people, blind or otherwise, should be prepared to run the extra mile to make themselves marketable. For blind people unfortunately this means living in cities with better public transportation, better education and plenty of experience, whether it be paid or unpaid. Writing list posts, producing podcasts and maintaining blog journals will only get us so far on the resume unless these activities are advancing one's objectives or directly relevant to the position to which one is applying. Joe “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anmol Bhatia Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society Hello Kirt, There is know need to ve to appologize since pretty much everything you said in your previous email is mostly true. I just commend you for having the courage to speak the trouth and for saying what I and I spect a few other blind people think in a public blind list. But pretty much I agree with everything you said about most blind people feeling the need of entitlement, suffering from laziness,and having low expectation and how all this can be classified as related to their disability. Frankly this frustrates me to know extend. Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller --- On Sun, 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > From: Kirt Manwaring > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 8:32 PM > To all, >   I have to appologize for my last email.  Most > blind people, even the > ones that frustrate me to no end, deserve more respect than > I just > gave.  I can only think of a few to whom all my last > blanket > statements apply. >   Best, > Kirt > > On 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring > wrote: > > Serena, > >   Absolutely.  I'm talking about > those whose only diagnosed disability > > is blindness.  But certainly their sense of > entitlement, laziness, low > > expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be > considered > > disabilities, in their own right. > > > > On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco > wrote: > >> Hi Kirt, > >> > >> I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on > this list) who could > >> definitely use better social skills.  Keep in > mind, though, many blind > >> people who only talk about blindness may have > additional disabilities > >> that > >> make social interaction difficult.  I know > plenty of these. > >> > >> Serena > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >> Behalf > >> Of Kirt Manwaring > >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > >> > >> Arielle, > >>   I really shouldn't beat a dead > horse senseless.  But here I go again. > >> :) > >>   I suppose, strictly speaking, > you're right.  To each his/her own. > >> But I know plenty of blind people, a > disproportionately large number, > >> who don't know how to interact with the sighted > public.  Their lives > >> are blindness.  And they don't ever interact > with anything, or anyone > >> else.  It's no wonder, then, that we as a > blind community sometimes > >> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, > and even eletist. > >> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing > about blindness, and I > >> were to meet at random one of the blind people who > I currently > >> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed > enough to think of > >> them as an equal.  Because, let's face it, > too many blind people have > >> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in > the sighted world. > >> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, > (maybe explicitly > >> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know > how to handle > >> themselves with sighted people when they need > to.  I think we all know > >> a good number of blind people who fit the > description I just gave.  I > >> know far too many.  So, on that front, I rest > my case. > >>   Now let's move on to the other > issues you raised.  For those blind > >> people who want blindness to basically be their > whole identity...fine. > >>  It's not my place to say they shouldn't do > that.  It's certainly good > >> to see qualified blind people working as cane > travel instructors, > >> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc.  And > I have just as much > >> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would > for a sighted couple, > >> all other factors being equal, provided the blind > spouses both have > >> the skills they need to independently manage a > marriage and, if they > >> so choose, a family. > >>   That being said, I've taken a lot > of heat from lots of blind people > >> for not being "involved" enough.  Never mind > I'm in school, I have a > >> social life at school, and I have lots of other > things I want to do > >> outside the blind community.  As I've said, > I'm not going to judge > >> people who make the blind community their primary > social network.  I > >> only ask for that to go both ways.  Blindness > is not me, I just happen > >> to be blind along with all the plethora of other > things that help > >> define me.  Unfortunately, often times I > don't get the same respect > >> I'm trying to give.  Y'all do your thing, > I'll do mine.  And let's all > >> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring > to the table.  You > >> may choose to live your life primarily with blind > people, more power > >> to you!  I choose not to, and all I want is > that same courtesy. > >>   Best, > >> Kirt > >> P.S.  Arielle, that was in no way directed > against you.  Just...some > >> of my frustrations about some other people came > out.  I'm not meaning > >> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive > me if it sounded > >> that way. > >> > >> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >>> Hi Kurt and all, > >>> > >>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone > talks about blindness stuff > >>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't > necessarily mean they will have > >>> similarly narrow conversation when with > sighted people. Being a part > >>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) > I can attest that my > >>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness > and my Jewish friends > >>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't > talk about the blindness > >>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. > I also tend to talk > >>> about psychology a lot with my grad student > and faculty colleagues. I > >>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's > primary identity is > >>> blindness, they work in the blindness field > and they marry a blind > >>> person, as long as they're able to get along > OK with sighted > >>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they > need to. Some of us > >>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or > multiple social communities > >>> but others are perfectly content with a few > friends or one main > >>> community and I don't think it's our place to > pass judgment on these > >>> people. I can understand the concerns about > our public image, but > >>> again I think that boils down to how well the > blind person is able to > >>> interact with sighted people when they need > to. I think we should make > >>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted > people around us, but we > >>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as > our friends. > >>> > >>> Arielle > >>> > >>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez > wrote: > >>>> So very true. > >>>> > >>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, > >>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of > the councelers on a > >>>> rolercoaster, > >>>> and they tried to force an adult > administrator to go with us. > >>>> > >>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one > though, > >>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. > >>>> > >>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a > plane--the flight attendance that > >> is, > >>>> said my cane had to be stored in the > overhead because it could "be used > >> as > >>>> a > >>>> weapon." > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into > stories like that. I know, people > >> just > >>>>> don't understand about blindness. > >>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 > 18:02:23 -0600 > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in > society > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is a total drag when people > want to only talk about your > >>>>> blindness-- > >>>>>> as though you have nothing to > offer.  I try to view these moments > >>>>> as > >>>>>> educational opportunities.  I > kindly and diplomatically explain, > >>>>> to the > >>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind > people "do" things.  I try to > >>>>> answer > >>>>>> questions, but then turn the > conversation around to discuss other > >>>>>> matters.  Find opportunities > in conversations to change the > >>>>> discussion. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is not always easy.  I do > think it is perfectly acceptable to, > >>>>> in a > >>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that > blind people have other > >>>>> interest.  Ask > >>>>>> the person questions so a > back-and-forth begins. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that > exemplifies this discussion, I > >>>>> think. > >>>>>> There is a section with some > strong language so if you do not > >>>>> enjoy > >>>>>> strong language, you may want to > skip this.  It is only a small > >>>>> section > >>>>>> that includes the language.  > Enjoy.  *smile* > >>>>> > >>>>>> The Event of the Century > >>>>> > >>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I > cane along the Fuddrucker's > >>>>> building > >>>>>> with my long white cane searching > for the door.  My friends do > >>>>> the same > >>>>>> with their canes.  The scent > of grease filters through the chill > >>>>> air. > >>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a > hamburger joint.  We are cold, > >>>>> and we > >>>>>> are hungry.  Finding the > door, we all scurry inside.  We are > >>>>> seven > >>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a > good time-we all happen to be > >>>>> blind. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap > our white canes investigating > >>>>> the > >>>>>> restaurant.  Ross, my > husband, and I find a wall and follow it > >>>>> with our > >>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth > against the wall.  "Hey guys," I > >>>>> call out, > >>>>>> "I believe this is the > counter."  The click of cane tips echoes > >>>>> from all > >>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, > Jamie and Carol find their way > >>>>> to the > >>>>>> counter.  Since the menu is > not available in Braille, I ask the > >>>>> cashier > >>>>>> to please read the choices out > loud.  Ross and I order as our > >>>>> friends > >>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see > often, decide what sounds best. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the > soda fountain.  Ice chinks into > >>>>> a cup > >>>>>> and I follow the sound.  I > encounter an island separating the > >>>>> soda > >>>>>> fountain from where I stand.  > Pausing for a second, I determine > >>>>> which > >>>>>> direction to walk around the > island, but before I can take > >>>>> another step, > >>>>>> a stranger approaches me. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "No thanks.  I'm just going > to fill my cup," I say. As I step > >>>>> around the > >>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can > tell she is hesitating.  Before I > >>>>> know > >>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of > my coat and yanks me around the > >>>>>> island. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "It's this way," she says . > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction > I was moving in, ma'am." > >>>>> > >>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my > friends move past looking for an > >>>>> open > >>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" > she asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, > we don't have a companion."  I > >>>>> follow > >>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger > alone to ponder the miracle > >>>>> happening > >>>>>> before her eyes. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "The freak show's out.  > Everyone should grab their camera," Audra > >>>>> says > >>>>>> as I approach the table. > >>>>> > >>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't > mean to be rude, but we are all > >>>>> use to > >>>>>> this reaction when in > public.  The amazing blind people who have > >>>>> left > >>>>>> the security of their homes!  > Yes, I am cynical, but this has > >>>>> always > >>>>>> been a part of my character.  > Encountering ridiculous ideas and > >>>>> outdated > >>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a > daily basis, keeps my cynicism > >>>>> fresh. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have > thought the hardest part of > >>>>> being > >>>>>> blind was dealing with society's > perceptions and attitudes.  I > >>>>> very > >>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, > and it is a part of who I am. > >>>>> I > >>>>>> accept it just as I accept the > color of my hair or my inability > >>>>> to solve > >>>>>> a math equation quickly.  I > am no more amazing than anyone else, > >>>>> but > >>>>>> because I do things without > vision, it suddenly makes me > >>>>> exceptional. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is difficult to be around > people, not because I am blind, but > >>>>> because > >>>>>> others usually have problems > accepting me as a person and not as > >>>>> a blind > >>>>>> person.  Sometimes, I would > rather spend time with children > >>>>> because they > >>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and > not doubt because of a > >>>>> perceived > >>>>>> reality. > >>>>> > >>>>>> My favorite past time these days > is spending time with my nephew > >>>>> and > >>>>>> nieces.  I must have the baby > bug or something-- the biological > >>>>> clock > >>>>>> and all.  They bring joy to > my life, and yes, I must admit, I > >>>>> talk > >>>>>> endlessly about them. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too > smart for his own good.  Chloe is > >>>>> five and > >>>>>> extremely independent, but she > loves with her whole heart. > >>>>> Kensley is > >>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest > temperament, but every now and > >>>>> then, she > >>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer > in her eyes.  Penny is one and > >>>>> full of > >>>>>> energy, but I have become a > surrogate mother to her. I have > >>>>> watched them > >>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real > people, and it is through them > >>>>> I see > >>>>>> where the future can lie. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares > and hesitant concerns when > >>>>> people > >>>>>> find out that I frequently watch > my nephew and nieces. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "How could you watch children?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can blind people do that?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, > and depending on my mood, I > >>>>> respond > >>>>>> accordingly.  I do not > believe how insulting people can be. > >>>>> > >>>>>> When I take the kids to the park > or the mall or on a walk, people > >>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding > me around.  Yes, a > >>>>> seven-year-old, > >>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a > baby guide me.  We would all be > >>>>> dead. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I wonder if people think about > what they say. > >>>>> > >>>>>> The kids never question my > abilities.  Blindness is normal to > >>>>> them.  My > >>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, > Chloe, Kensley and Penny.  We > >>>>> think > >>>>>> children have mental limitations, > but they understand what adults > >>>>> can > >>>>>> not.  My babies accept me and > do not doubt their safety with me. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden loves to play video > games.  I think he is a bit young for > >>>>> this, > >>>>>> but what do adults know, > right?  If allowed, he would play all > >>>>> day long. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the > kids, and in an attempt to get > >>>>> Caiden to > >>>>>> stop the game and play outside, > she told him, "If you play too > >>>>> many > >>>>>> video games you will go blind." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, > it's not a big deal to be blind. > >>>>> Look > >>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." > >>>>> > >>>>>> With these words, I realize the > impact I have on my nephew and > >>>>> nieces. > >>>>>> They are the beginning of a > generation that can break the > >>>>> stereotypes > >>>>>> about blindness.  The efforts > I make seem so small, but through > >>>>> these > >>>>>> children, I know the effect is > lasting. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to > walking around with her eyes closed > >>>>> because > >>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt > Bridgy." Every time she is at my > >>>>> house, she > >>>>>> insists on using a white cane to > walk around with.  She is also > >>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants > to learn this tactile form of > >>>>> print. > >>>>>> Every where she goes, she points > out signs that have Braille on > >>>>> them. > >>>>>> She has no fear.  To Chloe, > blindness is just another way to > >>>>> "be." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Children are not caught up in > their perceptions, but will believe > >>>>> what > >>>>>> you tell them at face value.  > Exposure to me has allowed my > >>>>> nephew and > >>>>>> nieces to learn and understand > that life does not stop after > >>>>> blindness. > >>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children > accept people for who they are. > >>>>> My > >>>>>> children accept me as capable and > confident-the way they view > >>>>> other > >>>>>> adults in their lives.  In > their eyes, I am no different, and > >>>>> there is > >>>>>> no thought of limitations. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still > grasping the fact that I do not > >>>>> respond to > >>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their > heads.  Both have quickly > >>>>> adjusted to > >>>>>> finding other means in which to > express their wants. When wanting > >>>>> to be > >>>>>> held, they come to me and place > their arms around my legs.  When > >>>>> they > >>>>>> want to show me something like a > toy, they place it in my hands. > >>>>> Kensley > >>>>>> and Penny do not question my > ability to care for them.  To them, > >>>>> I am > >>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, > and of course I am food! > >>>>> > >>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to > the back of their clothing so I > >>>>> know > >>>>>> where they are, but usually their > gibber-gabber gives their > >>>>> location > >>>>>> away.  As Penny and Kensley > learn to speak, they will understand > >>>>> that > >>>>>> they must use their words, and not > gestures, to communicate with > >>>>> me. > >>>>>> These two will grow up never > thinking I am odd, or doubt that I > >>>>> can care > >>>>>> for them. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not > see beyond my blindness.  The > >>>>> world > >>>>>> created a reality in which > blindness is a debilitating disability > >>>>>> leaving one limited and to be > pitied.  True, not everyone buys > >>>>> into the > >>>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not > everyone believes me inferior, > >>>>> but, in > >>>>>> my experience, most people still > cling to old notions. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and > a man approached me from behind > >>>>> and > >>>>>> declared, "You are amazing!"  > I knew what he meant, but I acted > >>>>> as > >>>>>> though I had no clue. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "You get around so well.  It > is truly amazing you can walk." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not > paralyzed." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you > don't run into stuff." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I > would."  I proceeded down the steps > >>>>> of the > >>>>>> fine arts building. Following > behind me, he seemed poised to > >>>>> capture a > >>>>>> blind person out of their natural > environment. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall > lightly on my head and face. > >>>>> "Wow, it's > >>>>>> snowing again?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "See, you're amazing!  How do > you know it's snowing?  It must be > >>>>> your > >>>>>> sixth sense." > >>>>> > >>>>>> "No, I feel it.  Can't you?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I > take, but there are times when I > >>>>> can no > >>>>>> longer deal with the attitudes > forced on me.  I try to educate-I > >>>>> try to > >>>>>> be positive, but watch out if you > catch me on a bad day. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I stood, a few months ago,  > waiting at the curb to cross the > >>>>> street. > >>>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center > street in front of me, and the > >>>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my > right, I prepare to cross.  As a > >>>>> person > >>>>>> who is blind, I listen to the > sound of traffic to help me cross a > >>>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do > this.  Still not sure?  How > >>>>> many > >>>>>> sighted people get into > accidents?  I rest my case. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Once the light changes, it won't > stay green long, and I must zip > >>>>> across. > >>>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red > light (red as in I have the > >>>>> right-away) > >>>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds > long, but when traffic has the > >>>>> green, I > >>>>>> stand here forever.  I > checked the time, three o' clock on the > >>>>> dot. > >>>>>> Come on.  I tapped my long > white cane on the pavement out of > >>>>> boredom. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow > from behind.  With cars on > >>>>> Center > >>>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed > pedestrian forces me into > >>>>> oncoming > >>>>>> traffic.  I could not stop, > so I continue this farce as this > >>>>> Crazy Carla > >>>>>> dragged me across the > street.  Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I > >>>>> had no > >>>>>> choice but to keep truckin'. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped > the strangers hand away and > >>>>> shouted, > >>>>>> "What the hell are you doing?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, > ignoring my question. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Are you insane?  You can > see, right?  Clearly we did not have > >>>>> the > >>>>>> right-away.  Shit!" > >>>>> > >>>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore,  > was about to meet her fate back out > >>>>> on > >>>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my > arm again. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I > know you?  No, so what gives > >>>>> you the > >>>>>> idea I want a complete stranger > touching me?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Can you make it home from here?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> I stared in her direction.  > Is she deaf? > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good.  How > the hell do you think I was getting > >>>>> around > >>>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove > me across the street?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> "Have a good day.  Ya' sure > you can get home okay?" > >>>>> > >>>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I > shouted, "O-H MY GOD!  Fuck you!" > >>>>> Grabbing > >>>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped > towards my apartment complex. > >>>>> > >>>>>> No, I am not proud of such > outburst, but I don't accept the > >>>>> perceptions > >>>>>> society has constructed about > blindness either.  I, who was > >>>>> safely and > >>>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy > city street, was assumed > >>>>> incapable by > >>>>>> a sighted person who threw caution > to the wind and placed me, and > >>>>>> themselves, into a dangerous > situation.  Instead of thinking, > >>>>> "Hmm, this > >>>>>> person is blind, but they are out > and about on their own, they > >>>>> must be > >>>>>> okay-they must know what they are > doing," they only "see" the > >>>>> blind girl > >>>>>> standing alone and do not get past > that thought. > >>>>> > >>>>>> My friends all have similar > stories.  We are seven people > >>>>> enjoying each > >>>>>> other's company, but because we > are all blind, it is considered > >>>>> the > >>>>>> event of the century. We range in > age from twenty-five to > >>>>> thirty-five, > >>>>>> some of us have children, all of > us work, but it is an awesome > >>>>>> accomplishment that we are > socializing without a sighted > >>>>> companion. > >>>>> > >>>>>> It is even more incredible that > our conversation sounds like any > >>>>> other > >>>>>> conversation.  This confuses > our server as the girls talk about > >>>>> what to > >>>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk > about the football game playing > >>>>> on the > >>>>>> television. > >>>>> > >>>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he > asks. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." > >>>>> > >>>>>> Message: 4 > >>>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 > -0800 > >>>>>> From: Darian Smith >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in > society > >>>>>> Message-ID: > >>>>>>     > >>>>> > >>>>> m > >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> So, I was thinking about how  > what we learn in the NFb can > >>>>> translate > >>>>>> into society.  For > example,  socializing, we want to be > >>>>> considered as > >>>>>> "normal" as the next person, but > often we are asked the  general > >>>>>> blindness related questions, > not  ina bad way, but because people > >>>>> don't > >>>>>> understand something and want to > know  what we do.  How do people > >>>>> deal > >>>>>> with this?  Say, you really > had a long day, and the last thing > >>>>> you want > >>>>>> to hear is something related to > blindness, but the grammys were > >>>>> on, and > >>>>>> you wouldn't mind talking > about  how a certain pop star finally > >>>>> didn't > >>>>>> win something *smile*.  > Or,  you have the weel-meaning person > >>>>> trying to > >>>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've > made it clear  that you do not > >>>>> require > >>>>>> said assistance? How do you  > handle this without getting  fairly > >>>>> annoyed > >>>>>> and/or taking > >>>>>> it to be more serious than > it's  simply ment.   I know we talk > >>>>> about > >>>>>> the  importance of educating > the public, yet   the equil > >>>>> importance of > >>>>>> stressing > normality.   How have people handled  > these ideas?  How > >>>>> does > >>>>>> one  operate keeping in mind > the ideas of both living one's life > >>>>> and > >>>>>> keep in mind the next blind person > that comes along? > >>>>> > >>>>>>   Darian > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info > >>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa > >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma > >> il.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Arielle Silverman > >>> President, National Association of Blind > Students > >>> Phone:  602-502-2255 > >>> Email: > >>> nabs.president at gmail.com > >>> Website: > >>> www.nabslink.org > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > >> il.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > >> n.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo .com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 17:39:40 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:39:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society In-Reply-To: References: <738975.18563.qm@web162018.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Joe, Amen! And, on that note, I'm taking some time off from the list. Discussion here's nice, but I have some real writing to do. Namely a paper about how young-earth Creationism isn't scientifically credible, and an essay about how Nicholo Machiavelli was a real piece of work...so I'll be back in a few weeks when I got some time. To any of you I'm in contact with off-list, I'll still keep in touch as time permits. Best, Kirt On 2/28/11, Joe Orozco wrote: > I'm not quite sure that's what I took away from Kirt's e-mail. Yes, I'm > sure there are blind people with low expectations and a sense of entitlement > resulting from their disability, but I don't know that every blind > unemployed person out there has found themselves in this situation on > account of being lazy or for lack of trying. I've known three highly > competent blind people who were unemployed for a period of time for no other > reason than the poor state of the job market. That being said, the job > market will remain competitive even when the economy bounces back, and > people, blind or otherwise, should be prepared to run the extra mile to make > themselves marketable. For blind people unfortunately this means living in > cities with better public transportation, better education and plenty of > experience, whether it be paid or unpaid. Writing list posts, producing > podcasts and maintaining blog journals will only get us so far on the resume > unless these activities are advancing one's objectives or directly relevant > to the position to which one is applying. > > Joe > > “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Anmol Bhatia > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society > > > Hello Kirt, > There is know need to ve to appologize since pretty much everything you said > in your previous email is mostly true. I just commend you for having the > courage to speak the trouth and for saying what I and I spect a few other > blind people think in a public blind list. But pretty much I agree with > everything you said about most blind people feeling the need of entitlement, > suffering from laziness,and having low expectation and how all this can be > classified as related to their disability. Frankly this frustrates me to > know extend. > > Anmol > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > --- On Sun, 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 8:32 PM >> To all, >>   I have to appologize for my last email.  Most >> blind people, even the >> ones that frustrate me to no end, deserve more respect than >> I just >> gave.  I can only think of a few to whom all my last >> blanket >> statements apply. >>   Best, >> Kirt >> >> On 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring >> wrote: >> > Serena, >> >   Absolutely.  I'm talking about >> those whose only diagnosed disability >> > is blindness.  But certainly their sense of >> entitlement, laziness, low >> > expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be >> considered >> > disabilities, in their own right. >> > >> > On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco >> wrote: >> >> Hi Kirt, >> >> >> >> I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on >> this list) who could >> >> definitely use better social skills.  Keep in >> mind, though, many blind >> >> people who only talk about blindness may have >> additional disabilities >> >> that >> >> make social interaction difficult.  I know >> plenty of these. >> >> >> >> Serena >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >> Behalf >> >> Of Kirt Manwaring >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society >> >> >> >> Arielle, >> >>   I really shouldn't beat a dead >> horse senseless.  But here I go again. >> >> :) >> >>   I suppose, strictly speaking, >> you're right.  To each his/her own. >> >> But I know plenty of blind people, a >> disproportionately large number, >> >> who don't know how to interact with the sighted >> public.  Their lives >> >> are blindness.  And they don't ever interact >> with anything, or anyone >> >> else.  It's no wonder, then, that we as a >> blind community sometimes >> >> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, >> and even eletist. >> >> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing >> about blindness, and I >> >> were to meet at random one of the blind people who >> I currently >> >> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed >> enough to think of >> >> them as an equal.  Because, let's face it, >> too many blind people have >> >> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in >> the sighted world. >> >> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, >> (maybe explicitly >> >> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know >> how to handle >> >> themselves with sighted people when they need >> to.  I think we all know >> >> a good number of blind people who fit the >> description I just gave.  I >> >> know far too many.  So, on that front, I rest >> my case. >> >>   Now let's move on to the other >> issues you raised.  For those blind >> >> people who want blindness to basically be their >> whole identity...fine. >> >>  It's not my place to say they shouldn't do >> that.  It's certainly good >> >> to see qualified blind people working as cane >> travel instructors, >> >> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc.  And >> I have just as much >> >> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would >> for a sighted couple, >> >> all other factors being equal, provided the blind >> spouses both have >> >> the skills they need to independently manage a >> marriage and, if they >> >> so choose, a family. >> >>   That being said, I've taken a lot >> of heat from lots of blind people >> >> for not being "involved" enough.  Never mind >> I'm in school, I have a >> >> social life at school, and I have lots of other >> things I want to do >> >> outside the blind community.  As I've said, >> I'm not going to judge >> >> people who make the blind community their primary >> social network.  I >> >> only ask for that to go both ways.  Blindness >> is not me, I just happen >> >> to be blind along with all the plethora of other >> things that help >> >> define me.  Unfortunately, often times I >> don't get the same respect >> >> I'm trying to give.  Y'all do your thing, >> I'll do mine.  And let's all >> >> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring >> to the table.  You >> >> may choose to live your life primarily with blind >> people, more power >> >> to you!  I choose not to, and all I want is >> that same courtesy. >> >>   Best, >> >> Kirt >> >> P.S.  Arielle, that was in no way directed >> against you.  Just...some >> >> of my frustrations about some other people came >> out.  I'm not meaning >> >> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive >> me if it sounded >> >> that way. >> >> >> >> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Kurt and all, >> >>> >> >>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone >> talks about blindness stuff >> >>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't >> necessarily mean they will have >> >>> similarly narrow conversation when with >> sighted people. Being a part >> >>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) >> I can attest that my >> >>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness >> and my Jewish friends >> >>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't >> talk about the blindness >> >>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. >> I also tend to talk >> >>> about psychology a lot with my grad student >> and faculty colleagues. I >> >>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's >> primary identity is >> >>> blindness, they work in the blindness field >> and they marry a blind >> >>> person, as long as they're able to get along >> OK with sighted >> >>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they >> need to. Some of us >> >>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or >> multiple social communities >> >>> but others are perfectly content with a few >> friends or one main >> >>> community and I don't think it's our place to >> pass judgment on these >> >>> people. I can understand the concerns about >> our public image, but >> >>> again I think that boils down to how well the >> blind person is able to >> >>> interact with sighted people when they need >> to. I think we should make >> >>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted >> people around us, but we >> >>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as >> our friends. >> >>> >> >>> Arielle >> >>> >> >>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez >> wrote: >> >>>> So very true. >> >>>> >> >>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America, >> >>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of >> the councelers on a >> >>>> rolercoaster, >> >>>> and they tried to force an adult >> administrator to go with us. >> >>>> >> >>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one >> though, >> >>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones. >> >>>> >> >>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a >> plane--the flight attendance that >> >> is, >> >>>> said my cane had to be stored in the >> overhead because it could "be used >> >> as >> >>>> a >> >>>> weapon." >> >>>> >> >>>> Jorge >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into >> stories like that. I know, people >> >> just >> >>>>> don't understand about blindness. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter > >>>>>> To: > >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 >> 18:02:23 -0600 >> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in >> society >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> It is a total drag when people >> want to only talk about your >> >>>>> blindness-- >> >>>>>> as though you have nothing to >> offer.  I try to view these moments >> >>>>> as >> >>>>>> educational opportunities.  I >> kindly and diplomatically explain, >> >>>>> to the >> >>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind >> people "do" things.  I try to >> >>>>> answer >> >>>>>> questions, but then turn the >> conversation around to discuss other >> >>>>>> matters.  Find opportunities >> in conversations to change the >> >>>>> discussion. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> It is not always easy.  I do >> think it is perfectly acceptable to, >> >>>>> in a >> >>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that >> blind people have other >> >>>>> interest.  Ask >> >>>>>> the person questions so a >> back-and-forth begins. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that >> exemplifies this discussion, I >> >>>>> think. >> >>>>>> There is a section with some >> strong language so if you do not >> >>>>> enjoy >> >>>>>> strong language, you may want to >> skip this.  It is only a small >> >>>>> section >> >>>>>> that includes the language. >> Enjoy.  *smile* >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> The Event of the Century >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I >> cane along the Fuddrucker's >> >>>>> building >> >>>>>> with my long white cane searching >> for the door.  My friends do >> >>>>> the same >> >>>>>> with their canes.  The scent >> of grease filters through the chill >> >>>>> air. >> >>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a >> hamburger joint.  We are cold, >> >>>>> and we >> >>>>>> are hungry.  Finding the >> door, we all scurry inside.  We are >> >>>>> seven >> >>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a >> good time-we all happen to be >> >>>>> blind. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap >> our white canes investigating >> >>>>> the >> >>>>>> restaurant.  Ross, my >> husband, and I find a wall and follow it >> >>>>> with our >> >>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth >> against the wall.  "Hey guys," I >> >>>>> call out, >> >>>>>> "I believe this is the >> counter."  The click of cane tips echoes >> >>>>> from all >> >>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, >> Jamie and Carol find their way >> >>>>> to the >> >>>>>> counter.  Since the menu is >> not available in Braille, I ask the >> >>>>> cashier >> >>>>>> to please read the choices out >> loud.  Ross and I order as our >> >>>>> friends >> >>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see >> often, decide what sounds best. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the >> soda fountain.  Ice chinks into >> >>>>> a cup >> >>>>>> and I follow the sound.  I >> encounter an island separating the >> >>>>> soda >> >>>>>> fountain from where I stand. >> Pausing for a second, I determine >> >>>>> which >> >>>>>> direction to walk around the >> island, but before I can take >> >>>>> another step, >> >>>>>> a stranger approaches me. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "No thanks.  I'm just going >> to fill my cup," I say. As I step >> >>>>> around the >> >>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can >> tell she is hesitating.  Before I >> >>>>> know >> >>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of >> my coat and yanks me around the >> >>>>>> island. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "It's this way," she says . >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction >> I was moving in, ma'am." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my >> friends move past looking for an >> >>>>> open >> >>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" >> she asks. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, >> we don't have a companion."  I >> >>>>> follow >> >>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger >> alone to ponder the miracle >> >>>>> happening >> >>>>>> before her eyes. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "The freak show's out. >> Everyone should grab their camera," Audra >> >>>>> says >> >>>>>> as I approach the table. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't >> mean to be rude, but we are all >> >>>>> use to >> >>>>>> this reaction when in >> public.  The amazing blind people who have >> >>>>> left >> >>>>>> the security of their homes! >> Yes, I am cynical, but this has >> >>>>> always >> >>>>>> been a part of my character. >> Encountering ridiculous ideas and >> >>>>> outdated >> >>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a >> daily basis, keeps my cynicism >> >>>>> fresh. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have >> thought the hardest part of >> >>>>> being >> >>>>>> blind was dealing with society's >> perceptions and attitudes.  I >> >>>>> very >> >>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, >> and it is a part of who I am. >> >>>>> I >> >>>>>> accept it just as I accept the >> color of my hair or my inability >> >>>>> to solve >> >>>>>> a math equation quickly.  I >> am no more amazing than anyone else, >> >>>>> but >> >>>>>> because I do things without >> vision, it suddenly makes me >> >>>>> exceptional. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> It is difficult to be around >> people, not because I am blind, but >> >>>>> because >> >>>>>> others usually have problems >> accepting me as a person and not as >> >>>>> a blind >> >>>>>> person.  Sometimes, I would >> rather spend time with children >> >>>>> because they >> >>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and >> not doubt because of a >> >>>>> perceived >> >>>>>> reality. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> My favorite past time these days >> is spending time with my nephew >> >>>>> and >> >>>>>> nieces.  I must have the baby >> bug or something-- the biological >> >>>>> clock >> >>>>>> and all.  They bring joy to >> my life, and yes, I must admit, I >> >>>>> talk >> >>>>>> endlessly about them. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too >> smart for his own good.  Chloe is >> >>>>> five and >> >>>>>> extremely independent, but she >> loves with her whole heart. >> >>>>> Kensley is >> >>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest >> temperament, but every now and >> >>>>> then, she >> >>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer >> in her eyes.  Penny is one and >> >>>>> full of >> >>>>>> energy, but I have become a >> surrogate mother to her. I have >> >>>>> watched them >> >>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real >> people, and it is through them >> >>>>> I see >> >>>>>> where the future can lie. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares >> and hesitant concerns when >> >>>>> people >> >>>>>> find out that I frequently watch >> my nephew and nieces. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "How could you watch children?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Can blind people do that?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, >> and depending on my mood, I >> >>>>> respond >> >>>>>> accordingly.  I do not >> believe how insulting people can be. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> When I take the kids to the park >> or the mall or on a walk, people >> >>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding >> me around.  Yes, a >> >>>>> seven-year-old, >> >>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a >> baby guide me.  We would all be >> >>>>> dead. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I wonder if people think about >> what they say. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> The kids never question my >> abilities.  Blindness is normal to >> >>>>> them.  My >> >>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, >> Chloe, Kensley and Penny.  We >> >>>>> think >> >>>>>> children have mental limitations, >> but they understand what adults >> >>>>> can >> >>>>>> not.  My babies accept me and >> do not doubt their safety with me. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Caiden loves to play video >> games.  I think he is a bit young for >> >>>>> this, >> >>>>>> but what do adults know, >> right?  If allowed, he would play all >> >>>>> day long. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the >> kids, and in an attempt to get >> >>>>> Caiden to >> >>>>>> stop the game and play outside, >> she told him, "If you play too >> >>>>> many >> >>>>>> video games you will go blind." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, >> it's not a big deal to be blind. >> >>>>> Look >> >>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> With these words, I realize the >> impact I have on my nephew and >> >>>>> nieces. >> >>>>>> They are the beginning of a >> generation that can break the >> >>>>> stereotypes >> >>>>>> about blindness.  The efforts >> I make seem so small, but through >> >>>>> these >> >>>>>> children, I know the effect is >> lasting. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to >> walking around with her eyes closed >> >>>>> because >> >>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt >> Bridgy." Every time she is at my >> >>>>> house, she >> >>>>>> insists on using a white cane to >> walk around with.  She is also >> >>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants >> to learn this tactile form of >> >>>>> print. >> >>>>>> Every where she goes, she points >> out signs that have Braille on >> >>>>> them. >> >>>>>> She has no fear.  To Chloe, >> blindness is just another way to >> >>>>> "be." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Children are not caught up in >> their perceptions, but will believe >> >>>>> what >> >>>>>> you tell them at face value. >> Exposure to me has allowed my >> >>>>> nephew and >> >>>>>> nieces to learn and understand >> that life does not stop after >> >>>>> blindness. >> >>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children >> accept people for who they are. >> >>>>> My >> >>>>>> children accept me as capable and >> confident-the way they view >> >>>>> other >> >>>>>> adults in their lives.  In >> their eyes, I am no different, and >> >>>>> there is >> >>>>>> no thought of limitations. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still >> grasping the fact that I do not >> >>>>> respond to >> >>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their >> heads.  Both have quickly >> >>>>> adjusted to >> >>>>>> finding other means in which to >> express their wants. When wanting >> >>>>> to be >> >>>>>> held, they come to me and place >> their arms around my legs.  When >> >>>>> they >> >>>>>> want to show me something like a >> toy, they place it in my hands. >> >>>>> Kensley >> >>>>>> and Penny do not question my >> ability to care for them.  To them, >> >>>>> I am >> >>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, >> and of course I am food! >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to >> the back of their clothing so I >> >>>>> know >> >>>>>> where they are, but usually their >> gibber-gabber gives their >> >>>>> location >> >>>>>> away.  As Penny and Kensley >> learn to speak, they will understand >> >>>>> that >> >>>>>> they must use their words, and not >> gestures, to communicate with >> >>>>> me. >> >>>>>> These two will grow up never >> thinking I am odd, or doubt that I >> >>>>> can care >> >>>>>> for them. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not >> see beyond my blindness.  The >> >>>>> world >> >>>>>> created a reality in which >> blindness is a debilitating disability >> >>>>>> leaving one limited and to be >> pitied.  True, not everyone buys >> >>>>> into the >> >>>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not >> everyone believes me inferior, >> >>>>> but, in >> >>>>>> my experience, most people still >> cling to old notions. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and >> a man approached me from behind >> >>>>> and >> >>>>>> declared, "You are amazing!" >> I knew what he meant, but I acted >> >>>>> as >> >>>>>> though I had no clue. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "You get around so well.  It >> is truly amazing you can walk." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not >> paralyzed." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you >> don't run into stuff." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I >> would."  I proceeded down the steps >> >>>>> of the >> >>>>>> fine arts building. Following >> behind me, he seemed poised to >> >>>>> capture a >> >>>>>> blind person out of their natural >> environment. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall >> lightly on my head and face. >> >>>>> "Wow, it's >> >>>>>> snowing again?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "See, you're amazing!  How do >> you know it's snowing?  It must be >> >>>>> your >> >>>>>> sixth sense." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "No, I feel it.  Can't you?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I >> take, but there are times when I >> >>>>> can no >> >>>>>> longer deal with the attitudes >> forced on me.  I try to educate-I >> >>>>> try to >> >>>>>> be positive, but watch out if you >> catch me on a bad day. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I stood, a few months ago, >> waiting at the curb to cross the >> >>>>> street. >> >>>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center >> street in front of me, and the >> >>>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my >> right, I prepare to cross.  As a >> >>>>> person >> >>>>>> who is blind, I listen to the >> sound of traffic to help me cross a >> >>>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do >> this.  Still not sure?  How >> >>>>> many >> >>>>>> sighted people get into >> accidents?  I rest my case. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Once the light changes, it won't >> stay green long, and I must zip >> >>>>> across. >> >>>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red >> light (red as in I have the >> >>>>> right-away) >> >>>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds >> long, but when traffic has the >> >>>>> green, I >> >>>>>> stand here forever.  I >> checked the time, three o' clock on the >> >>>>> dot. >> >>>>>> Come on.  I tapped my long >> white cane on the pavement out of >> >>>>> boredom. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow >> from behind.  With cars on >> >>>>> Center >> >>>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed >> pedestrian forces me into >> >>>>> oncoming >> >>>>>> traffic.  I could not stop, >> so I continue this farce as this >> >>>>> Crazy Carla >> >>>>>> dragged me across the >> street.  Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I >> >>>>> had no >> >>>>>> choice but to keep truckin'. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped >> the strangers hand away and >> >>>>> shouted, >> >>>>>> "What the hell are you doing?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, >> ignoring my question. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Are you insane?  You can >> see, right?  Clearly we did not have >> >>>>> the >> >>>>>> right-away.  Shit!" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, >> was about to meet her fate back out >> >>>>> on >> >>>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my >> arm again. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I >> know you?  No, so what gives >> >>>>> you the >> >>>>>> idea I want a complete stranger >> touching me?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Can you make it home from here?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> I stared in her direction. >> Is she deaf? >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good.  How >> the hell do you think I was getting >> >>>>> around >> >>>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove >> me across the street?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "Have a good day.  Ya' sure >> you can get home okay?" >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I >> shouted, "O-H MY GOD!  Fuck you!" >> >>>>> Grabbing >> >>>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped >> towards my apartment complex. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> No, I am not proud of such >> outburst, but I don't accept the >> >>>>> perceptions >> >>>>>> society has constructed about >> blindness either.  I, who was >> >>>>> safely and >> >>>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy >> city street, was assumed >> >>>>> incapable by >> >>>>>> a sighted person who threw caution >> to the wind and placed me, and >> >>>>>> themselves, into a dangerous >> situation.  Instead of thinking, >> >>>>> "Hmm, this >> >>>>>> person is blind, but they are out >> and about on their own, they >> >>>>> must be >> >>>>>> okay-they must know what they are >> doing," they only "see" the >> >>>>> blind girl >> >>>>>> standing alone and do not get past >> that thought. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> My friends all have similar >> stories.  We are seven people >> >>>>> enjoying each >> >>>>>> other's company, but because we >> are all blind, it is considered >> >>>>> the >> >>>>>> event of the century. We range in >> age from twenty-five to >> >>>>> thirty-five, >> >>>>>> some of us have children, all of >> us work, but it is an awesome >> >>>>>> accomplishment that we are >> socializing without a sighted >> >>>>> companion. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> It is even more incredible that >> our conversation sounds like any >> >>>>> other >> >>>>>> conversation.  This confuses >> our server as the girls talk about >> >>>>> what to >> >>>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk >> about the football game playing >> >>>>> on the >> >>>>>> television. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he >> asks. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes." >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Message: 4 >> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 >> -0800 >> >>>>>> From: Darian Smith > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in >> society >> >>>>>> Message-ID: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> > >>>>> m >> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>> So, I was thinking about how >> what we learn in the NFb can >> >>>>> translate >> >>>>>> into society.  For >> example,  socializing, we want to be >> >>>>> considered as >> >>>>>> "normal" as the next person, but >> often we are asked the  general >> >>>>>> blindness related questions, >> not  ina bad way, but because people >> >>>>> don't >> >>>>>> understand something and want to >> know  what we do.  How do people >> >>>>> deal >> >>>>>> with this?  Say, you really >> had a long day, and the last thing >> >>>>> you want >> >>>>>> to hear is something related to >> blindness, but the grammys were >> >>>>> on, and >> >>>>>> you wouldn't mind talking >> about  how a certain pop star finally >> >>>>> didn't >> >>>>>> win something *smile*. >> Or,  you have the weel-meaning person >> >>>>> trying to >> >>>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've >> made it clear  that you do not >> >>>>> require >> >>>>>> said assistance? How do you >> handle this without getting  fairly >> >>>>> annoyed >> >>>>>> and/or taking >> >>>>>> it to be more serious than >> it's  simply ment.   I know we talk >> >>>>> about >> >>>>>> the  importance of educating >> the public, yet   the equil >> >>>>> importance of >> >>>>>> stressing >> normality.   How have people handled >> these ideas?  How >> >>>>> does >> >>>>>> one  operate keeping in mind >> the ideas of both living one's life >> >>>>> and >> >>>>>> keep in mind the next blind person >> that comes along? >> >>>>> >> >>>>>>   Darian >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info >> >>>>> for nabs-l: >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa >> >>>>> 5369%40netzero.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gma >> >> il.com >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Arielle Silverman >> >>> President, National Association of Blind >> Students >> >>> Phone:  602-502-2255 >> >>> Email: >> >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >> >>> Website: >> >>> www.nabslink.org >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma >> >> il.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo >> >> n.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com >> >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo > .com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From gcazares10 at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 19:13:50 2011 From: gcazares10 at gmail.com (Gabriel Cazares) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:13:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nfbnet-master-list] FW: Quick Survey on a new product for the Blind and Vision Impaired In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Ringlein, Ellen" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:38:24 -0600 Subject: [Nfbnet-master-list] FW: Quick Survey on a new product for the Blind and Vision Impaired To: nfbnet-master-list at nfbnet.org ---------- From: Kathleen Wolff [mailto:kpw8 at mail.msb.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:42 PM To: Ringlein, Ellen Subject: Quick Survey on a new product for the Blind and Vision Impaired Hello! Please help our design team! At the McDonough School of Business at Georgetown University, a group of MBA students is designing a high-quality talking watch for the blind and vision impaired. The link below will take you to a 10-question survey asking your opinion about features that should be included in this new product. Here is the link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FBY826B Please don't delay! Responses prior to March 1 will be included in a presentation to key decision-makers regarding this product. Thank you for your input. We look forward to providing a product that delivers genuine value. Kathleen Wolff MBA Candidate EMBA17, Date of Graduation, April 2012 -- Gabriel M. Cazares, 2nd Vice President Texas Association of Blind Students (TABS) www.nfb-texas.org/tabs.html Phone: 713-581-0619 "Of course, loyalty to one's friends is an important principle. But so is writing what you believe--otherwise, why bother to write at all?"-Arianna Huffington From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 19:12:39 2011 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:12:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] question about identification of different items Message-ID: <005b01cbd77b$782597f0$6870c7d0$@com> Hi Jordyn, Often times, I have found, that you can distinguish credit cards tactily by feeling the card numbers. You can often feel the difference between a 1 or an 8, just for example, at the start of the card number. Also, different cards have different number protocols that feel different. For example, Visa cards have 4 sets of 4 numbers, and Amex have a different setup. Many people also stick small labels on the cards to distinguish. I do as you say, and just have the card numbers taken down in a document. A fairly obvious word of caution, but one that warrants stating anyway: do not keep your pin numbers and passwords in the same document or on the same sheet of notes with the card numbers. This way, if the numbers are compromised, at least the pin numbers are not included. Frankly, your best off to just keep pin numbers in your head and nowhere else. While I will say that the iBill is a very neat and useful little item, I have lived without one my whole life, and have been handling money since I was 12. I have never, and I do mean never, been stiffed by a sighted person. I collected payment on a paper route for three years, and have made all sorts of cash transactions, and have always found the bills given to me to be exactly what I was told they were. Incidentally, I have had some instances of being both under and over paid for items that I have sold for NFB fundraisers to other blind folks, but this is a separate question. I'm quite sure that these were all cases of poor money management skills, and not cases of intentional deception. Especially the one time I ended up with a 20 that somebody gave me proclaiming that it was a 5. In short, the iBill saves you the trouble of asking the cashier or cabby what they are handing you, but does require you to take the time to sort it out later. An iBill will let you independently sort your cash, but in no way diminishes from the need for good money management skills and a system of folding or placement to keep track of what is what. After all, who wants to go through the trouble of figuring out what each bill is each time they wish to make a cash transaction? Not me! Hope something here was useful. Take care, Sean From jwiley at UIC.EDU Mon Feb 28 20:47:12 2011 From: jwiley at UIC.EDU (Wiley, Jennifer) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:47:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Summer Research Opportunity: Dan Gilbert's Lab at Harvard Message-ID: <83815ceb381eb494b7c574deb3478288.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu> > Professor Daniel Gilbert's Lab at Harvard University is accepting > applications for volunteer research assistants for the summer. The > ideal candidate is a motivated undergraduate or recent graduate with a > keen interest in social psychology. Research experience is an asset > but not a necessity. > > Research topics relate to affective forecasting, the role of shared > experience, the impact of alternatives and expertise on well-being, > and judgment and decision making. Interns work approximately 35 hours > a week; this includes data collection, analysis, and lab meetings. > > To apply: please send a CV, unofficial grade report, and your proposed > summer start and stop dates to gilbertlab.summer at gmail.com > > The opportunity is for summer 2011; start and stop dates can be > anywhere between May-September. Applications will be reviewed on a > rolling basis until positions are filled. > > _____________________ > > Lisa L. Shu > Organizational Behavior & Psychology > Harvard Business School | Harvard Psychology Department > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwiley at UIC.EDU Mon Feb 28 20:45:55 2011 From: jwiley at UIC.EDU (Wiley, Jennifer) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:45:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Summer Internship Opportunity at Automaticity in Cognition, Motivation, and Evaluation Lab at Yale University Message-ID: <72b4e0523de048e26ab8ee702bfe443a.squirrel@webmail.uic.edu> > Summer Internship Opportunity at Automaticity in Cognition, > Motivation, and Evaluation Lab at Yale University > > The Automaticity in Cognition, Motivation, and Evaluation Lab (ACME; > http://yale.edu/acmelab), under the direction of Dr. John Bargh at > Yale University, is looking for bright and motivated research > assistants interested in getting hands-on experience in psychological > research to apply to our summer 2011 internship program. This is a > volunteer internship program in which we aim to immerse our interns in > every aspect of the research process, including hypothesis generation > (in the lines of research we are currently pursuing), designing the > study, creating the materials for the study, running the study, > entering the data, doing data analysis and writing, all while working > closely with our graduate students and post-doc. Interns will also > participate in a weekly reading group where we will discuss empirical > and theoretical papers at the cutting edge of our discipline. > > The dates of the program are June 1st - August 5th, and we generally > prefer a full-time commitment, though dates and daily schedules are > flexible to accommodate your needs. Undergraduates interested in > pursuing graduate studies in Psychology or Cognitive Science are > especially encouraged to apply. > > If you would like to apply find out more information about this > internship program, please e-mail sarah.hailey at yale.edu. In addition > to sending a CV and unofficial transcript, please send a brief > statement of interest detailing how working in our lab in particular > will help you develop your research interests and goals. You may also > have faculty members send letters of recommendation on your behalf. > Our policy is to use rolling admissions, so please apply as soon as > you can. > > Sincerely, > > Sarah Hailey > Graduate Student > Yale University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Feb 28 21:45:30 2011 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:45:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Summer Internship Opportunity at Automaticity in Cognition, Motivation, and Evaluation Lab at Yale University Message-ID: Subject: Summer Internship Opportunity at Automaticity in Cognition,Motivation, and Evaluation Lab at Yale University > Summer Internship Opportunity at Automaticity in Cognition, > Motivation, and Evaluation Lab at Yale University > > The Automaticity in Cognition, Motivation, and Evaluation Lab (ACME; > http://yale.edu/acmelab), under the direction of Dr. John Bargh at > Yale University, is looking for bright and motivated research > assistants interested in getting hands-on experience in psychological > research to apply to our summer 2011 internship program. This is a > volunteer internship program in which we aim to immerse our interns in > every aspect of the research process, including hypothesis generation > (in the lines of research we are currently pursuing), designing the > study, creating the materials for the study, running the study, > entering the data, doing data analysis and writing, all while working > closely with our graduate students and post-doc. Interns will also > participate in a weekly reading group where we will discuss empirical > and theoretical papers at the cutting edge of our discipline. > > The dates of the program are June 1st - August 5th, and we generally > prefer a full-time commitment, though dates and daily schedules are > flexible to accommodate your needs. Undergraduates interested in > pursuing graduate studies in Psychology or Cognitive Science are > especially encouraged to apply. > > If you would like to apply find out more information about this > internship program, please e-mail sarah.hailey at yale.edu. In addition > to sending a CV and unofficial transcript, please send a brief > statement of interest detailing how working in our lab in particular > will help you develop your research interests and goals. You may also > have faculty members send letters of recommendation on your behalf. > Our policy is to use rolling admissions, so please apply as soon as > you can. > > Sincerely, > > Sarah Hailey > Graduate Student > Yale University