[nabs-l] Of Things that Matter

Fri Feb 4 02:00:45 UTC 2011

If there is in fact a significant difference between sighted and blind young
adults in terms of acquisition of accurate sex-related knowledge, would it
not benefit the community for this to be known, and for it to be addressed?
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be, whether it's a
misconception made by sighted people or a generalization made by a few well
educated blind people.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:

> Jamie:
> Please tone down a bit.
>
> This isn't a question that goes against inqury--it just asks weather this
> inquiry is needed and weather it is, indeed, to the public's benefit.
>
>
> And, to talk in your own lango, Science's aim is only and exclusively for
> the benefit of the public.
>
> Isn't it?
>
> Therefore, does this breach what brings benefit to the public?
>
> How would this benefit anyone?
>
> Defend your case well and I'd be willing to listen,
> but seriously, back yourself with some data or reason, please.
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jamie Principato wrote:
>
> > Or we can completely miss the point...
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just
> >> like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up the
> >> survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are just
> >> normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that
> >> message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x in
> >> braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting
> time
> >> trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial
> >> own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of
> them
> >> saying about us.)
> >> Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so
> >> that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that
> >> these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National
> >> Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's
> banquet
> >> speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating
> people
> >> about blindness.
> >> Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but
> >> inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's worth.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>
> >>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter
> >>>
> >>
> >> Completely agree.
> >>> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of
> >>>
> >> private stuff?
> >>
> >> 1 the general public doesn't care,
> >>>
> >>
> >> and
> >>>
> >>
> >> 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore
> >>>
> >> baseless.
> >>
> >> The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are
> >>>
> >> the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jorge
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote:
> >>>
> >>
> >> Joe,
> >>>>       I agree with all the stuff you are saying.  I think the
> >>>>
> >>> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste
> >> paper baket of .. well, wastepaper.  Crumpled up receipts can go on top
> of
> >> the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them
> into
> >> wastepaper basket).  IF only I could do what I think I just did
> virtually.
> >>
> >>> Beth
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com
> >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> >>>>
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>
> >>> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500
> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant.  The age
> >>>>
> >>> range is
> >>
> >>> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we
> >>>>
> >>> really don't
> >>
> >>> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to
> >>>>
> >>> accomplish.
> >>
> >>> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey?  What
> >>>>
> >>> does
> >>
> >>> trouble me is the validity people have given the project.  From
> >>>>
> >>> what little
> >>
> >>> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes
> >>>>
> >>> there is
> >>
> >>> something inherently different in blind people that would make
> >>>>
> >>> sex education
> >>
> >>> a special circumstance for this population.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Maybe I'm missing something.  Is your perception of sex
> >>>>
> >>> different because
> >>
> >>> you're blind?  Was your inability to see a significant challenge
> >>>>
> >>> to figuring
> >>
> >>> out how it works?  Was your childhood so isolated that your
> >>>>
> >>> friends did not
> >>
> >>> fill in the gaps?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke.  You say it's
> >>>>
> >>> important to
> >>
> >>> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of
> >>>>
> >>> intercourse
> >>
> >>> as anyone else.  The million-dollar question is quite simply:
> >>>>
> >>> Why?
> >>
> >>> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind
> >>>>
> >>> people learn
> >>
> >>> about sex the same as any other adolescent.  You could claim
> >>>>
> >>> it's everyday
> >>
> >>> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred
> >>>>
> >>> from
> >>
> >>> equally participating in certain activities.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind
> >>>>
> >>> people feed
> >>
> >>> into public misconceptions.  It makes blind people feel they
> >>>>
> >>> need to defend
> >>
> >>> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary.
> >>>>
> >>> The
> >>
> >>> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of
> >>>>
> >>> unique
> >>
> >>> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples
> >>>>
> >>> the second
> >>
> >>> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment.  You're
> >>>>
> >>> not going
> >>
> >>> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a
> >>>>
> >>> hypothesis.  It's
> >>
> >>> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the
> >>>>
> >>> research in
> >>
> >>> the first place.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly
> >>>>
> >>> ask:  Why are
> >>
> >>> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with
> >>>>
> >>> a blind
> >>
> >>> person?  My educated guess is fear of the unknown.  We have all
> >>>>
> >>> been in
> >>
> >>> situations where we feared too many questions would be just
> >>>>
> >>> plain rude.
> >>
> >>> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds
> >>>>
> >>> if we're not
> >>
> >>> supposed to advocate?  Remember, you're not trying to have sex
> >>>>
> >>> with the
> >>
> >>> general public.  There are things for which you do not need to
> >>>>
> >>> make a
> >>
> >>> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target
> >>>>
> >>> of your
> >>
> >>> natural instincts.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the
> >>>>
> >>> same
> >>
> >>> context?  Certainly.  We should examine the depravity of certain
> >>>>
> >>> humans who
> >>
> >>> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive
> >>>>
> >>> the victims as
> >>
> >>> easy prey.  This is an idea worth investigating and finding
> >>>>
> >>> solutions.
> >>
> >> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a
> >>>>
> >>> victim of
> >>
> >>> society.  In the case of the former, one may not always have the
> >>>>
> >>> resources
> >>
> >>> to protect oneself against the circumstances.  In the case of
> >>>>
> >>> the latter,
> >>
> >>> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel
> >>>>
> >>> pressured to send
> >>
> >>> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be
> >>>>
> >>> laughable.
> >>
> >>> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books
> >>>>
> >>> about sexual
> >>
> >>> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent
> >>>>
> >>> preaching could
> >>
> >>> have been spent...But, I digress.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> We need to keep things in perspective.  We need to not be lured
> >>>>
> >>> into
> >>
> >>> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality.  There are
> >>>>
> >>> plenty of
> >>
> >>> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and
> >>>>
> >>> as far as
> >>
> >>> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public
> >>>>
> >>> for whom the
> >>
> >>> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the
> >>>>
> >>> people who cut
> >>
> >>> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama.  How I
> >>>>
> >>> learned about
> >>
> >>> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic
> >>>>
> >>> speculation,
> >>
> >>> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone
> >>>>
> >>> else.
> >>
> >> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to
> >>>>
> >>> the urge to
> >>
> >>> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction.  I am copying the
> >>>>
> >>> professor here
> >>
> >>> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives.  Maybe there's
> >>>>
> >>> something
> >>
> >>> there I'm just too dense to see?  Criticisms aside, I'm open to
> >>>>
> >>> being
> >>
> >>> educated.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Joe
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
> >>>>
> >>> their sleeves,
> >>
> >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam
> >>>>
> >>> Ewing
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>> sloose%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
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> >> z%40mac.com
> >>
> >>
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> >> for nabs-l:
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> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
> >>>
> >> 5369%40netzero.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
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