[nabs-l] Of Things that Matter

Jamie Principato blackbyrdfly at gmail.com
Fri Feb 4 02:20:43 UTC 2011


Well said, Arielle.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Arielle Silverman
<nabs.president at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As a student of experimental psychology and as someone who aspires to
> do research on issues affecting blind people, I have definitely seen
> my share of blindness research that is demeaning and needlessly grim
> and pessimistic. This comes from many problems including problems with
> the initial research questions being asked, interpretations of data
> that paint an overly grim picture of blindness, and studies that are
> poorly designed. My gut reaction to this study was similar to many of
> yours in that I am also not sure why the sex knowledge of blind people
> should differ in meaningful ways from the sex knowledge of the general
> population. However, I strongly believe that if we want to effect any
> change, we should not only take the survey if we meet the criteria,
> but whether or not we meet the criteria we should take the researchers
> up on their request for feedback and, after reviewing the survey
> items, share our concerns and suggestions with them. Like Jamie said,
> science is self-correcting. Those of us who had positive and equal
> experiences with sexuality should share our data with the researchers
> so the data they gather is accurate and representative. Boycotting the
> study is not going to improve the accuracy of the data collected or
> the conclusions drawn from them. Furthermore, I believe one of the
> main reasons why blindness research continues to be so demeaning is
> because there is little real dialogue between the sighted researchers
> and actual blind people. I believe that any researcher worth anything
> would be glad to hear from potential subjects and gain a deeper
> insight into the issues being studied by talking with them directly.
> If you think the hypotheses are completely off-track or the research
> questions being asked might have bad implications for the blind
> community, share your thoughts with the researchers and perhaps offer
> suggestions for different kinds of research questions that might be
> more productive for them to study. They may or may not accept the
> feedback, but a good researcher will listen to a clear message that
> his/her hypothesis is problematic, and will not want to waste time and
> money chasing a hypothesis that is unlikely to be supported. Your
> dialogue might inform the researchers about angles of the issue they
> haven't even thought about before. If nothing else, it would be
> worthwhile to find out what their predictions are and what they hope
> to do with this information before jumping to conclusions.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 2/3/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
> > Jamie:
> > Please tone down a bit.
> >
> > This isn't a question that goes against inqury--it just asks weather this
> > inquiry is needed and weather it is, indeed, to the public's benefit.
> >
> >
> > And, to talk in your own lango, Science's aim is only and exclusively for
> > the benefit of the public.
> >
> > Isn't it?
> >
> > Therefore, does this breach what brings benefit to the public?
> >
> > How would this benefit anyone?
> >
> > Defend your case well and I'd be willing to listen,
> > but seriously, back yourself with some data or reason, please.
> >
> >
> > On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:27 PM, Jamie Principato wrote:
> >
> >> Or we can completely miss the point...
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:20 PM, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> everyone is right. Why are they doing this? Blind people can learn just
> >>> like the sighted, just a little differently, and, whoever started up
> the
> >>> survey, doesn't know anything about blindness and about that we are
> just
> >>> normal people who can't see. I was actually thrilled when I first that
> >>> message arrived, and my index fingers touches the letters s, e, and x
> in
> >>> braille as I read from a braille note. These stupid people are wasting
> >>> time
> >>> trying to figure out how "these weird strange extra-terrestrial
> >>> own-little-world-holder blind people work." (This is what I think of
> them
> >>> saying about us.)
> >>> Now I just hope that this internet mailing list can go public enough so
> >>> that these people can read all our posts regarding the matter, and that
> >>> these people are automatedly being invited to one of our National
> >>> Conventions of the NFB, and so that they can listen to Dr. Maurer's
> >>> banquet
> >>> speeches about blindness. He is really good at speaking and educating
> >>> people
> >>> about blindness.
> >>> Although I didn't think of posting anything about this thread, but
> >>> inspiration made me, and here are my sixteen cents, for what it's
> worth.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com
> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>
> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:11:50 -0500
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Completely agree.
> >>>> Why in the world would the general public care about that kind of
> >>>>
> >>> private stuff?
> >>>
> >>> 1 the general public doesn't care,
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> 2. the survey--if its done on that principle is therefore
> >>>>
> >>> baseless.
> >>>
> >>> The only person we'd ever have to educate about such things are
> >>>>
> >>> the person we would be doing it with--if that makes sense.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jorge
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Beth wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Joe,
> >>>>>       I agree with all the stuff you are saying.  I think the
> >>>>>
> >>>> survey is irreleevant now that I think about it and is a useless waste
> >>> paper baket of .. well, wastepaper.  Crumpled up receipts can go on top
> >>> of
> >>> the survey if possible. *crumples up the survey sheets and throws them
> >>> into
> >>> wastepaper basket).  IF only I could do what I think I just did
> >>> virtually.
> >>>
> >>>> Beth
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com
> >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> >>>>>
> >>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>
> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 13:47:20 -0500
> >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Of Things that Matter
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> For me, the sex study is irrelevant and insignificant.  The age
> >>>>>
> >>>> range is
> >>>
> >>>> limited, making me wonder about a sufficient sample, and we
> >>>>>
> >>>> really don't
> >>>
> >>>> have a clue as to what exactly it is that the research hopes to
> >>>>>
> >>>> accomplish.
> >>>
> >>>> And this survey is merely preparatory for a future survey?  What
> >>>>>
> >>>> does
> >>>
> >>>> trouble me is the validity people have given the project.  From
> >>>>>
> >>>> what little
> >>>
> >>>> we know of the project, it would appear the professor believes
> >>>>>
> >>>> there is
> >>>
> >>>> something inherently different in blind people that would make
> >>>>>
> >>>> sex education
> >>>
> >>>> a special circumstance for this population.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Maybe I'm missing something.  Is your perception of sex
> >>>>>
> >>>> different because
> >>>
> >>>> you're blind?  Was your inability to see a significant challenge
> >>>>>
> >>>> to figuring
> >>>
> >>>> out how it works?  Was your childhood so isolated that your
> >>>>>
> >>>> friends did not
> >>>
> >>>> fill in the gaps?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Okay, let's say we agree the study is a joke.  You say it's
> >>>>>
> >>>> important to
> >>>
> >>>> educate the public that blind people are every bit as capable of
> >>>>>
> >>>> intercourse
> >>>
> >>>> as anyone else.  The million-dollar question is quite simply:
> >>>>>
> >>>> Why?
> >>>
> >>>> Seriously, why is it necessary to tell scholars that blind
> >>>>>
> >>>> people learn
> >>>
> >>>> about sex the same as any other adolescent.  You could claim
> >>>>>
> >>>> it's everyday
> >>>
> >>>> advocacy, but advocacy is only necessary if you are being barred
> >>>>>
> >>>> from
> >>>
> >>>> equally participating in certain activities.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> This specific study is intellectual waste because it makes blind
> >>>>>
> >>>> people feed
> >>>
> >>>> into public misconceptions.  It makes blind people feel they
> >>>>>
> >>>> need to defend
> >>>
> >>>> themselves against something for which no defense is necessary.
> >>>>>
> >>>> The
> >>>
> >>>> research presumes blind individuals are subjects worthy of
> >>>>>
> >>>> unique
> >>>
> >>>> examination, and we allow ourselves to be reduced to odd samples
> >>>>>
> >>>> the second
> >>>
> >>>> we begin to engage the researcher in his own experiment.  You're
> >>>>>
> >>>> not going
> >>>
> >>>> to educate him, because it's not just about disproving a
> >>>>>
> >>>> hypothesis.  It's
> >>>
> >>>> about disproving the preconceived prejudice that triggered the
> >>>>>
> >>>> research in
> >>>
> >>>> the first place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Ultimately, people will wonder but will probably not publicly
> >>>>>
> >>>> ask:  Why are
> >>>
> >>>> sighted people generally put off by the idea of intercourse with
> >>>>>
> >>>> a blind
> >>>
> >>>> person?  My educated guess is fear of the unknown.  We have all
> >>>>>
> >>>> been in
> >>>
> >>>> situations where we feared too many questions would be just
> >>>>>
> >>>> plain rude.
> >>>
> >>>> Well, you think, how is it that we're supposed to change minds
> >>>>>
> >>>> if we're not
> >>>
> >>>> supposed to advocate?  Remember, you're not trying to have sex
> >>>>>
> >>>> with the
> >>>
> >>>> general public.  There are things for which you do not need to
> >>>>>
> >>>> make a
> >>>
> >>>> statement to make happen with the one person that is the target
> >>>>>
> >>>> of your
> >>>
> >>>> natural instincts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Is there a place for an examination of sex and blindness in the
> >>>>>
> >>>> same
> >>>
> >>>> context?  Certainly.  We should examine the depravity of certain
> >>>>>
> >>>> humans who
> >>>
> >>>> force themselves on blind people simply because they perceive
> >>>>>
> >>>> the victims as
> >>>
> >>>> easy prey.  This is an idea worth investigating and finding
> >>>>>
> >>>> solutions.
> >>>
> >>> But, there is a difference between a victim of violence and a
> >>>>>
> >>>> victim of
> >>>
> >>>> society.  In the case of the former, one may not always have the
> >>>>>
> >>>> resources
> >>>
> >>>> to protect oneself against the circumstances.  In the case of
> >>>>>
> >>>> the latter,
> >>>
> >>>> however, you do have a choice, and you do not need to feel
> >>>>>
> >>>> pressured to send
> >>>
> >>>> a signal over something so insubstantial as to almost be
> >>>>>
> >>>> laughable.
> >>>
> >>>> Hard-core disability activists who feel moved to write books
> >>>>>
> >>>> about sexual
> >>>
> >>>> equality irritate me because all that time that was spent
> >>>>>
> >>>> preaching could
> >>>
> >>>> have been spent...But, I digress.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> We need to keep things in perspective.  We need to not be lured
> >>>>>
> >>>> into
> >>>
> >>>> dialogues that do nothing to advance our equality.  There are
> >>>>>
> >>>> plenty of
> >>>
> >>>> fields where we need to educate the public of our abilities, and
> >>>>>
> >>>> as far as
> >>>
> >>>> I'm concerned, the three main people in that big diverse public
> >>>>>
> >>>> for whom the
> >>>
> >>>> extra mile is required are the people you call family, the
> >>>>>
> >>>> people who cut
> >>>
> >>>> your check, and the people you take home to meet mama.  How I
> >>>>>
> >>>> learned about
> >>>
> >>>> and fulfilled my private tasks is not a matter of academic
> >>>>>
> >>>> speculation,
> >>>
> >>>> because my disability does not make me any different from anyone
> >>>>>
> >>>> else.
> >>>
> >>> Alright, now I'm going to smack myself around for succumbing to
> >>>>>
> >>>> the urge to
> >>>
> >>>> fall victim to this irrelevant distraction.  I am copying the
> >>>>>
> >>>> professor here
> >>>
> >>>> in hopes he might enlighten me as to his motives.  Maybe there's
> >>>>>
> >>>> something
> >>>
> >>>> there I'm just too dense to see?  Criticisms aside, I'm open to
> >>>>>
> >>>> being
> >>>
> >>>> educated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Joe
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
> >>>>>
> >>>> their sleeves,
> >>>
> >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam
> >>>>>
> >>>> Ewing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>>
> >>>> info for nabs-l:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi
> >>>
> >>>> sloose%40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>>
> >>>> info for nabs-l:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapae
> >>> z%40mac.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>
> >>> for nabs-l:
> >>>
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
> >>>>
> >>> 5369%40netzero.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>



More information about the NABS-L mailing list