[nabs-l] The Blind Bubble

Thu Feb 10 19:35:36 UTC 2011

Kirt,
Good post!  Consider the relationship and skill level if you want a woman 
homemaker.  Blind or sighted, some wives are not good cooks or housekeepers.
I understand where you're coming from; a parent needs to be there for their 
kid;  studies indicate negative impact when going to childcare.
Glad you clarified; now your decission/view makes more sense.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble

Alice and all,
  First off, Alice, I'm sorry I couldn't see your emails...they all
came as blank text to me.  And, second, I feel like I should clarify
my "homemaker" comment...as I'm sure it could be taken the wrong way.
(and, Dave, forgive me if I go slightly off topic here.)
  I didn't mean to insinuate that my wife should be poorly educated,
not capable of getting a good career, or less smart than me.  On the
contrary, I want to marry a woman who can work, who is intelligent,
who has a great education, etc.  All I was saying, and I gess this
makes me fairly conservative and traditional...but I want to marry a
woma who's a mother first.  This will probably mean she's able to be
home when the kids are home.  And she'd better be able to cook, clean,
etc.  I sure as heck better be able to do all of those things too,
because she's going to need a lot of help.
  I see myself as being the main breadwinner.  It's going to be
primarily my responsibility to work so my family has what we'll need.
Just as I better know my way around the kitchen, my wife better know
how to work because I'm sure she'll need to.  I didn't mean to imply
any kind of inequality in my future marriage...I see me and my wife
being equal partners, who help each other fulfill our
responsibilities.  If anyone's curious why I feel this way in a world
that's increasingly disregarding traditional gender roles, feel free
to check out this link.
http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,FF.html
  In any case, I feel like blind people can be totally capable spouses
and parents.  So, whoever I marry, blind or sighted, will be someone
who understands and respects the need to make parenting the top
priority.
  Warmest regards,
Kirt

On 2/10/11, alex <aaatlantic at aol.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>  I absolutely agree with pretty much everything that's been posted
> here, so far.  Blindness shouldn't really be a factor in deciding who
> you're going to marry, which is why I'm _probably_ not going to marry
> a blind person.  Most of my friends are sighted, most of the people I
> work with are sighted, and, because of that, odds are it'll be a
> sighted person I eventually marry.  Let's say I fall in love with a
> girl who happens to be blind...assuming she's a competent homemaker,
> and assuming I have the skills to get a good job, and assuming we both
> can travel independently where we need to go...great.  But because my
> "dating pool" is almost totally sighted...that's probably not going to
> happen.  If blindness is only a characteristic, it shouldn't matter.
> Yet I know so many (who I respect a great deal), who make blindness
> and blind issues their livelyhoods.  I know we need good professionals
> in the blindness field, I know we have to fight for
> accessibility...but there are other fights and other causes much more
> important to me.  I admire people who devote their time and energy to
> advocating for other blind people, I hope to do a good bit of it
> myself...but I hope to do much, much more.  And so many people in the
> Federation, from what I've seen, focus so much on blindness and it
> makes me think "wait a minute.  Isn't this only supposed to be a
> characteristic?  A minor inconvenience?"  I don't want to devote such
> a disproportionate amount of my energy and ability to a
> nuisence...but, that's just me.
>  All the best,
> Kirt
>
> On 2/10/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am dating my bf because he's sweet, not because he's blind.
>> HE's from Africa though, and sometimes it frustrates me what
>> African people think of blind people.  African blind men marry
>> sighted women to take care of them.  My bf could've married a
>> Somali college student, but I feel that would've been wrong.
>> That was a trial by fire, and we're still together.  Someday, we
>> will probably marry, but not because of blindness, but becausee
>> he's sweet and I'm weet and we're in what Marsha stated as "good
>> old-fashioned love."
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com
>> To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>,"'National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble
>>
>> On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted
>> man, who
>> wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could
>> drive me, who
>> could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my
>> blindness, nor
>> even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the long run
>> my
>> blindness was used against me when it came to my children. Now
>> with that
>> said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation is a bit
>> more
>> challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but certainly
>> those things
>> are not doable in some way. My husband now does not want to fix
>> me; he is
>> okay with my blindness just as much as I am. And we get a kick
>> out of making
>> jokes about funny things in our life when it comes to not seeing.
>> My husband
>> was also previously married to a sighted person. So in that
>> sense, we
>> understand the struggles that go along with being married to a
>> sighted
>> person. Neither of us married each other because we were in the
>> NFB, or
>> because he was blind, or because I knew he would understand me
>> better. We
>> married because we fell in good old fashion love. Yes we met at
>> the 2009
>> Youth Slam. And certainly I am not suggesting that people attend
>> Youth Slam
>> to meet there future spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The
>> seriousness of
>> it, when I attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there
>> he was.
>> Yes looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things,
>> how
>> independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not
>> deal with
>> his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the
>> relationship
>> forward. We did not marry because we thought society would think
>> it was
>> cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think that God
>> had
>> something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion.
>>
>> But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of
>> understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide
>> dog users,
>> or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry
>> blind
>> people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the
>> transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier.
>> You should
>> marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will
>> treat you
>> well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change you.
>>
>> So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So
>> what blind
>> people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated,
>> marry,
>> date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they
>> have or do
>> not have, but who they are.
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Joe Orozco
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how
>> blind people
>> want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up
>> married to
>> other blind people.  What each person does or prefers is of
>> course up to the
>> individual, but I'd like to caution us against projecting some of
>> the very
>> same stereotypes we have been fighting for years amongst
>> ourselves.
>>
>> In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for
>> people to
>> get to know their fellow students.  This does not mean people
>> should be tied
>> at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience
>> is to take
>> what you have learned during class hours and use it out there,
>> where it
>> really counts.  Part of my confidence in different areas is owed
>> to a
>> heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came from
>> observing
>> other blind people at conventions and legislative seminars.
>> Something as
>> simple as observing a blind person get up from a table at a food
>> court and
>> head off for a refill on their drink was pretty inspirational for
>> me in high
>> school and played a key role in my personal development later in
>> college.
>> Class will only teach you so much, and the friendships you are
>> likely to
>> develop during this phase in your life have a pretty good chance
>> of
>> following you for the long-term.
>>
>> Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS
>> or Apple
>> or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a
>> point about
>> running the other way.  Or, you could think of it as a teaching
>> opportunity.
>> Training should not just be about what you can take away, but
>> also, what you
>> can give back.  You just might be the person who can help out
>> this sheltered
>> individual.
>>
>> The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic
>> fashion.
>> At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating
>> and/or marrying
>> another blind person is at least partially owed to that person's
>> own
>> insecurities.  I believe their views might shift after they
>> themselves feel
>> more confident about themselves.  I don't want to say that things
>> are easy
>> when both partners are blind.  I don't want to belittle the
>> conveniences
>> from such things like the sighted person being able to drive
>> their blind
>> spouse, but I also do not want us to create artificial barriers
>> for
>> ourselves, because the presence or absence of blindness is not
>> what's going
>> to make a relationship work.
>>
>> All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness
>> bubble that
>> do trouble me.  This is only a theory, and I welcome education if
>> my views
>> are sorely mistaken.
>>
>> I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become
>> complacent with
>> their landscape to the point that their views become a bit
>> limited.  Working
>> in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is
>> all you do,
>> I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of
>> confidence.  I'm
>> not going to make a clear point without concrete examples, and
>> again, at the
>> unfortunate risk of offending still more people, I think in some
>> ways it is
>> almost counterproductive to work at NFB training centers and even
>> our
>> National Center in Baltimore.  The reason for this is that even
>> though the
>> students and skill sets change, the method does not.  You become
>> an expert
>> at what you do and expect your students or your membership to
>> just learn it,
>> use it, and succeed at it.  For instance, it is easy for a
>> training center
>> instructor to expect a student to become confident in the
>> hypothetical span
>> of nine months, and during those nine months the student may very
>> well
>> become confident in that learning environment.  But, the learning
>> environment will be significantly different when the person
>> returns to the
>> real world where there are no other blind people or instructors
>> to keep the
>> momentum going.  Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or
>> chapter to
>> just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate more
>> partnerships,
>> but neither of these things are straightforward, even among
>> sighted
>> organizations.  This is why in my company I over emphasize the
>> need to work
>> collaboratively with people and organizations in the community to
>> create an
>> all-inclusive environment.
>>
>> I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted.  I am
>> also not
>> suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are
>> selling
>> themselves short.  On the contrary, I respect their courage to
>> fight what to
>> me seems an overwhelming battle.  It is imperative that we
>> attract great
>> professionals to help create a good foundation, but the longer
>> you work at
>> something, the higher your expectations become.  Sometimes, I
>> think there is
>> an unintentional risk of these expectations being so high that it
>> just turns
>> people off, because these high standards are good within the
>> blindness field
>> but are a little less sturdy in the context of the general
>> public.  Just as
>> professors sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are
>> opportunities for
>> blind professionals to get out there for a little while and
>> refresh their
>> understanding of the environment in which their charges are
>> living.
>>
>> Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a
>> negative tone.
>> As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that
>> we can
>> examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the
>> professionals.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>> sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam
>> Ewing
>>
>>
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