[nabs-l] Training centers

Brian Hatgelakas brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
Thu Feb 10 21:57:09 UTC 2011


@Jen were you at the center in 08 when I was their?  Its Brian Hatgelakas!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" <freespirit328 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers


> Hi all,
>
> I met my boyfriend when I was at the Carrol Center. They had issues with 
> touching etc over there, but we didn't actually start dating until after 
> we were both finished our programs, so it wasn't a big deal for me.
>
> Jen
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Shop my store for the latest and greatest in beauty and wellness products!
> www.youravon.com/jaberdeen
>
> Jennifer Aberdeen, AVON Independent Sales Representative
> freespirit328 at gmail.com
> 401-644-5607
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>
>
> As far as dating at Centers, I am still dating my current bf and
> he's amazing.  I met him here at CCB, and he welcomed me with
> open arms.  HE's an amazing traveler, but snow is his weakness.
> lol
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 21:41:15 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
>
> Hi again,
>
> Humberto, yes, people who are born blind are just as welcome at
> NFB
> centers as people who just went blind. I think when I was at LCB,
> it
> was about half and half, or maybe even more people who grew up
> blind
> than people who are newly blind. Some students also attend who
> have
> been "legally blind" for most or all of their lives, but who are
> recently losing more vision.
>
> Brian: It's sad, but also funny to hear about other centers
> discouraging students from dating, because to my knowledge dating
> between students at NFB centers is actually quite common, and not
> discouraged (sometimes teasingly encouraged by staff who like to
> play
> "matchmaker"). I believe that several blind married couples who
> are
> active in the NFB first met at training centers (Dr. Maurer and
> Mrs.
> Maurer met at the Iowa training center, the one that the three
> NFB
> centers are modeled after). That said, there is certainly no
> expectation to get romantically involved with a fellow center
> student
> and many students intentionally avoid it because the time at the
> center is relatively short, or because they don't want to be
> distracted during their training by such things. Either way is
> perfectly acceptable, in my opinion.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 2/9/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As you know, there is no magical number of days you must stay at
> a
> training center in order to emerge as an "enlightened" blind
> person.
> Nor is the center itself magical, or absolutely necessary for
> everyone
> to achieve their optimal amount of self-sufficiency and
> integration in
> the world. If you attend a center (NFB or not), you will
> hopefully
> gain skills you can combine with your prior skills so you have
> as many
> "tools in your toolbox" as possible. Having attended the
> Louisiana
> Center for the Blind, and knowing many people who have gone to
> the
> other two NFB centers, I believe that our centers are unique,
> and
> anybody can gain something from attending one of them at least
> for a
> short time, whether you "need" it or not. However, I also don't
> think
> attending a center is essential for success. Unfortunately,
> center
> training often must serve to fill in the gaps in one's childhood
> blindness skills training, so if you already have a solid
> foundation
> in Braille, Computers, cane travel, and home management and feel
> appropriately confident in your skills in all four of these
> areas,
> then going to a center may not be as important to you as other
> goals,
> like college attendance. However, if you feel deficient in one
> or more
> of these skills or feel your independence is limited because of
> these
> issues, then a center is an excellent way to fill in that
> knowledge
> gap.
>
> In answer to a couple questions that were raised, at least in
> Louisiana, the evenings and weekends are, for the most part,
> your
> time. There are occasional trips like rafting and rock climbing,
> and
> sometimes optional weekend activities, but the rest of the free
> time
> is yours. I know at LCB many students attended local churches
> and some
> exercised at the local fitness center. You are more than welcome
> to
> sign up for community activities, as long as they don't take up
> time
> during the week (Monday-Friday from 8:00-5:00, or 8:00-4:30 for
> CCB;
> I'm not sure about BLIND, Inc.'s exact schedule).
>
> As someone mentioned, contrary to some people's stereotypes
> about NFB
> centers, they really do make an effort to treat every student as
> an
> individual. There are graduation requirements, but if you are
> struggling to meet them, the teachers will work with you to
> develop a
> plan so that you can graduate and be challenged without being
> overwhelmed. When I was at LCB I saw lots of students with a
> great
> range of prior skills and some who had additional disabilities
> and I
> thought that for the most part, the staff did an exceptionally
> good
> job of adjusting to each person's specific needs and abilities.
> And,
> you can negotiate the length of your stay. If you stay for less
> than
> six months you might not officially graduate or get a "freedom
> bell"
> but if you say you only can attend for a few months because of
> school,
> work or other reasons, they're not going to turn you away. I
> think the
> more time, the better, but even a one-month stay is better than
> none
> at all.
>
> There are a lot of things that make NFB centers stand out but I
> think
> the high expectations and belief the instructors have in their
> students is the most important. A few of the instructors are
> sighted,
> but I was struck by the difference in basic approach between the
> sighted teachers at LCB and the other sighted instructors I had
> growing up. It was clear that the teachers all believed in and
> respected the students' capacity to learn and become independent
> in
> completing the assignments. They were both patient and firm,
> challenging us to go beyond what we thought we could do while
> also
> being willing to invest the time and attention we needed to
> learn the
> skills correctly. Even with little things, like having us
> independently find the pots we needed for cooking or the tools
> we
> needed for woodshop, they conveyed that they expected us to
> employ
> alternative techniques in every step of the process. It was also
> clear
> to me that it wasn't just a "day job" for the staff. They really
> care
> about the students and their progress even after graduation.
>
> The main reason I decided to attend the center was because of
> travel.
> Like many of us I grew up with very traditional travel/O&M
> instruction
> where I learned that I could only go to places if I had
> memorized the
> route first. My parents were also very protective and I lived in
> a
> suburban neighborhood so I had few opportunities to walk around
> on my
> own or deal with busy streets, shopping centers, etc. without a
> sighted guide. In college when I did get to travel on my own, I
> frequently got lost, and I had learned from my traditional
> travel
> instruction that getting lost was a "messup" or a failure. So, I
> hated
> getting lost. I also wasn't very good at identifying when I was
> going
> the wrong way because I had never really been taught to pay much
> attention to environmental cues. And, I was afraid of most
> intersections. It would literally take me fifteen minutes to
> cross a
> lighted intersection that didn't have an audible signal because
> I
> couldn't reliably tell the difference between parallel and
> perpendicular traffic. I knew when not to cross, but couldn't
> tell
> when it was safe to cross until it was too late. At LCB we spent
> time
> working on these issues. I also spent many days going out
> finding
> addresses, often to places I had never been before. My
> instructor
> would tell me the address of the business, so I knew what block
> it was
> on, but of course I didn't know the set route to get to the
> place. I
> really had to pay attention to where I was going using cardinal
> directions and carefully tuning in to traffic sounds. We also
> worked
> on parking lots. When I was growing up I was taught to never
> ever walk
> in a parking lot. I was taught routes to get to places where I
> had to
> go around the block or cross over gravel to get to the entrance
> of a
> business without using the parking lot. At LCB I regularly had
> to
> traverse parking lots, sometimes big ones, and I learned that
> there
> was nothing to be so worried about.
>
> I attended the center for just under seven months, graduating in
> August 2008. I will not say that today I am a great traveler, or
> even
> an above-average cane traveler. I still get turned around a fair
> amount (actually did today). But, since leaving the center, I
> don't
> get nearly as frustrated when I do get lost or turned around.
> More
> importantly, I can recognize when I am turned around much more
> quickly, and correct it much more accurately, than I did before
> training. I can reliably detect parallel and turning traffic at
> intersections and I can cross uncontrolled intersections (no
> light or
> stop sign) like the one by my house without problems (something
> else I
> was told to avoid as a child). And, I cut across the driveway
> for my
> condominium complex or the big parking lot by my grocery store
> without
> a second thought. Had I stuck with my traditional training, I
> think I
> would have had artificial limits on where I could live, and my
> mobility on the bus would have been limited by my inability to
> cross
> streets or negotiate parking lots. I find it unlikely that I
> would
> have gained this confidence and safety in cane travel at a
> non-NFB
> training center, because I think the reason these benefits stay
> with
> me today is because the NFB center assignments are so rigorous
> and I
> spent so much time practicing these basic skills, both with
> instructors and by myself.
>
> Of course this is just one person's story, and everyone has a
> different story to bring to the table. I do think all of us can
> experience heightened confidence and skills by attending an NFB
> center
> for any length of time, but of course, there are trade-offs in
> life
> between center training and other priorities. I do think, as Joe
> alluded, that it would be great if we can figure out how to
> bring
> NFB-style training to the one-on-one/home setting so blind
> people can
> receive this quality of instruction without having to leave
> their
> homes or their communities for several months. Until that
> happens,
> though, the NFB centers all have an excellent track record for
> turning
> out competent, self-reliant graduates.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 2/9/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Kirt,
> Would you really need to attend a training center? I do not know
> you
> well,
> but having met you a time or two I am not really sure if you
> need to
> attend
> a training center. However, if you do attend I would encourage
> you to get
> involved in the community and find sighted friends and do not
> fall into
> common blind bubbel of only socializing with other blind people.
> Like you
> said there is nothing wrong with that, but like you most of my
> friends
> are
> also sighted and I believe that we live in a sight world and
> will live in
> a
> sighted world it is important that blind people get out of their
> comfert
> zone and participate in activities that sighted people do. Just
> my two
> sense.
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
> Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a
> breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wednesday, February 9, 2011, 2:37 PM
> Dear Beth, Tara and all,
>  Is it hard to get involved with the community
> outside the center?
> Let me clarify the question, as it maybe doesn't make
> sense.
>  I know a lot of blind people (and please keep in
> mind I'm not
> calling anyone out or judging), who graduated from the
> training
> centers and now spend their lives mostly with other blind
> people.
> There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for
> me. I'm probably
> not going to marry a blind person or seriously date a
> blind
> person...simply because most of my friends aren't
> blind. So, with
> that in mind, I'm going to want to find ways to get
> involved in the
> community at large, at whichever center I decide is right
> for me.
> So...do you think I'll be discouraged or austricized if I
> choose to
> spend lots of my free time with church groups, volunteer
> programs,
> other friends I might find outside the center, etc?
> Because I think
> the worst thing that could happen to me is to get caught in
> a "blind
> bubble" where I learn all the skills I need, hang out with
> center
> people all the time, and miss out on whatever other
> opportunities I
> might find living away from home for such a long
> time. Don't get me
> wrong, I hope to make friends at the center and have a
> great time.
> But I don't want that to be my whole life while I'm out on
> my own like
> this. Thoughts, anyone?
>  Kirt
>
> On 2/9/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
> wrote:
> Training centers are a good way for blind people to
> learn the
> skills, but the CCB staff being blind makes it
> easier. Tara, I
> agree with you on all points. At a center in
> Daytona Beach,
> Florida, there were nurses, old creeps,, and lots of
> rules such
> as the lights out rule. Sexes were separated by
> wing, and there
> was no question about dating. At CCB, blind
> people are treated
> like people.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tara Annis <TAnnis at afb.net
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 14:38:09 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Training centers
>
> I attended the Colorado Center program between
> semesters at
> college. I attended the school for the
> blind and also took
> some classes at a local association of the blind, so
> would like
> to provide some insight.
> I do agree that blind people can be successful and
> have above
> average skills, even though they do not go to
> the NFB center,
> but this is really rare from my observations.
> Before I went to CCB, I did not know that blind people
> could walk
> long distances using a cane, as in m five or ten
> miles. I
> thought people could only walk routes that the O&M
> instructor had
> taught them, and the route would be a mile or
> less. I thought
> blind people needed sighted guide for any
> new place they
> visited, and couldn't use the cane to follow someone.
> I didn't know that blind people could use a charcoal
> grill.
> Some observations:
> 1. There were no nurses at CCB that had control of the
> medication
> you took. If you are supposed to be living in
> the real world,
> why have someone keep track of your meds?
>
> 2. There were no lights out at CCB. As long as
> you showed up to
> class on time, who cares what you do at night, as long
> as you
> aren't breaking the law. You're adults, so you
> should be treated
> like them.
> Go to bed when you feel like it.
>
> 3. There was no hassle at CCB when you wanted to go
> for lunch.
> You just walked out the door. You didn't
> need to make sure
> people had a sighted guide before beginning. You
> didn't need to
> have a sighted person to come along to help out.
>
>
> 4. Instructors were blind at CCB, and not ashamed of
> it. At other
> training centers, the instructors would never be
> caught using a
> cane or reading braille. Sighted people wore
> dark glasses when
> traveling with blind people, so the public couldn't
> look into
> their eyes. They did not like being stared
> at by the public.
> Yet, they never told blind people this fact.
>
> 5. Colorado staff did not hide the fact that the
> public can
> sometimes be cruel, and many do not understand
> blindness. I have
> witnessed at other centers staff outright lying
> to blind people
> telling them that no one can tell they are blind and
> that they
> don't need a cane, since they get around so
> well. Yet, the
> people they tell this to have disfigured eyes, and run
> into
> obstacles. The instructors do not want the blind
> person to feel
> bad so that is why they make up these lies.
>
>
> 6. I hate how at other centers they always assume a
> blind person
> has low self esteem, and needs counseling.
> CCB knew that some of their students are at an
> intermediate
> level, already past the adjustment phase of blidnness,
> and just
> came to CCB for advanced skills training.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
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