[nabs-l] Training Centers and their structure

Fri Feb 11 00:38:20 UTC 2011

Message: 22
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 02:27:36 -0500
From: Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Jedi,

You are correct to point out how Structured Discovery works.

I attended the Iowa Department for the Blind (which the NFB centers are
modeled after) so I have SD hammered into my brain!  LOL

Instructors observe you and determine where you are skills wise when
initially entering training.  They help develop the best curriculum for
the individual.  There are parts of the program that everyone has to do,
just like gen. eds in college, but they try to focus on what your
strengths and flaws are in the beginning.  This way, everyone knows how
to strengthen, and what to work on as you advance through the training.

I knew people who had learned Braille as children so they did not spend
time working on the alphabet or contractions, they would write different
things and use the slate and stylus and Perkins.

I already had developed my own cooking and household-type skills so I
pretty much came into home EC each day and just cooked a bunch of stuff
for everyone!  *smile*

You are only "thrown" into situations once you have reached a level
where you have a firm grasp on the skills.  Usually this is before
graduation.

A lot of students (when I was training) knew the skills, and most were
really good with them, but they lacked true confidence.  They did not
know they could live just like non-blind people.  They felt stifled and
limited.  They spent time gaining a sense of independence.

Some of the activities centers like IDB and the NFB facilities do are
essentially training tools.  When you learn how to climb a rocky cliff,
or navigate a on a raft while traveling down a white-water river, or
have fun at an amusement park, or grill hotdogs at a campfire, or just
go out to dinner, you become aware of your abilities.  Not only do you
use the skills during these activities, you begin to see how independent
you can be.

Structured Discovery has proven to be an effective method, and this is
why centers are adopting the SD method.

Bridgit

Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure
Message-ID:

<20110210072736.2453.79585 at domU-12-31-38-00-AD-3E.compute-1.internal>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"

There's a common misconception about Structured Discovery: many (in and 
out of the NFB) think that Structured Discovery means that one is just 
thrown into a situation and expected to figure it out for themselves. 
Though this may happen at an advanced level, it's certainly not what 
happens toward the beginning and middle of one's SD training. Instead, 
SD's more like the following analogy previously posted on this topic:

People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged. 
Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it. For 
instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I have 
a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to blend 
them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by sounding 
it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the sentence.

If one can problem-solve while reading, one can problem-solve while 
traveling. The skills are transferrable and the aim of SD is to make 
that transfer happen.

SD O and M is quite concrete. The difference between SD and traditional 
instructors is that SD instructors believe in you and will teach you to 
believe in yourself by not accepting your excuses for why you can't do 
something. If you've got a genuine limitation, SD is all about helping 
you overcome it using a wide variety of flexible approaches.

Just saying.

Respectfully,
Jedi

Original message:
> Hello,
> That's true Darian. There are people out there who went to no formal 
> training center or did it another way who are successful.  There are 
> other centers out there that use apartments for housing.  Some people 
> train on their own and get a teacher from the agency for the blind to 
> come out to their home and teach them.  There are itenerant rehab 
> teachers and O&M instructors. Going the extended time to a training 
> center for six months may not be for everyone due to leaving kids, not

> being able to keep their house while gone or other circumstances.

> Structured discovery wouldn't work for me because I don't learn by 
> cardinal directions in travel.  I cannot interpret sound cues alone 
> without visual input and I like maps rather than just oral directions 
> to walk a few blocks, cross x street and y street and go to some 
> address. Traditional instructors are more concrete and may use maps to

> convey concepts.  Now I do agree some traditional instructors 
> especially for cane travel, don't have the highest expectations. But I

> hope that is changing and you can always push yourself if your 
> instructor doesn't.

> People learn differently and some people are directionally challenged.

> Some people just can't problem solve with no foundation for it.  For 
> instance take reading. I can figure out unfamiliar words because I 
> have a foundation, that is I know what letters sound like and how to 
> blend them together; therefore I can figure out unfamiliar words by 
> sounding it out and problem solving with contextual clues in the 
> sentence.

> I already went to our state center for a while; several months and its

> good for some things and bad for others. For instance all we did in 
> cooking class was baking sweets primarily. The class I got the most 
> from was daily living;  the instructor showed things and went step by 
> step. One size doesn't fit all.  When I hear the nfb center graduates 
> say negative things and make assumptions about other blind people like

> oh they lack initiative or something it sounds like those who went to 
> centers are acting elite.

> That said I still need to figure out some skills.  I don't know if 
> I'll go to another center, probably carroll center, or learn on my own

> through friends. But I really need to learn to cook!

> Ashley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darian Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers and their structure

> Bridgit and list,
> I   too  graduated from a training center and feell like I benifited
> greatly from that type of environment.
>    I will point out, however, that there are  people who have not gone

> through  any formalized training or training at a center that stressed

> structured discovery and end  up just as successful, just as happy, 
> just asproductive as some of those who havegone. you could also  say 
> the same for people who have gone through non-traditional methods of  
> post-secondary education, with some even being successful with no 
> college expirience. Will the numbers  end up the same if you were to 
> break down statistics  on the matter? I doubt it, but the examples are

> out there. I say this not  to disagree with bridgit, but  to make a 
> counter argument just for the sake of discussion.
> Like I say, I went through  the training center environment that
> Bridgit speaks of,  and  learned a great amount, I first started the
> program believeing that  six months would do it for me, andas I look
> back on it, it wouldn't have done half of what I thought it would
> have.
>   thoughts folks?
>   respectfully,
>   Darian

> On 2/8/11, Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear List,

>> I know I will be preaching to the choir here so forgive me, but I 
>> feel it is important to stress the importance of choosing a good 
>> training center to attend.

>> As a blind person-- whether blind from birth, later in life or in the

>> process of losing vision-- one of the most important things you can 
>> do is attend the best training center you can find.  The reason NFB 
>> centers and other progressive centers follow similar methods is 
>> because, for years now, they have proven to be the best methods for 
>> instilling independence along with a strong functionality with the 
>> skills.

>> We all learn at different paces and with different styles, but these 
>> centers are structured to meet individual needs.  This is why people 
>> train anywhere from 6 months to a year.  If you think you can learn 
>> the skills in less than 6 months and use them effectively, you are 
>> mistaken. Time and time again, I have seen people choose to not 
>> complete a training course and they lack the confidence and ability 
>> that most gain after at least a six month stint.

>> As for sleep shades, I have always failed to understand why people 
>> are against this.  I initially learned with sleep shades and it made 
>> sense to me.  How better to gain that confidence than to know you can

>> do things in non-visual ways?  Now that I can no longer use my vision

>> at all, it makes me feel like I must be less capable when people say 
>> sleep shade training is wrong or not necessary.  The way this comes 
>> across is that vision is still vital to be truly independent, and 
>> that when you have no useable vision, you can not effectively 
>> accomplish things.

>> Do not sell yourself short.  We all have the ability to gain that 
>> freedom and independence we hear so much about.  If you have never 
>> tried something, how do you know you can't do it?  I don't say all 
>> this because I have been brain washed, and I am one of those hard 
>> core blind people; I say all this because I have experienced it and 
>> know the benefits.

>> We will struggle, we will need to learn, we will not always do 
>> everything perfectly, but if we have been handed the tools and 
>> methods to give us independence and confidence, we will find a way to

>> prove ourselves to the world.

>> I agree that placing an untrained student into an apartment scenerio 
>> may not work for everyone.  I understand the reasoning behind this, 
>> but I also know that before you learn skills and the confidence to 
>> use those skills, living on your own may not be the best situation 
>> right away. Not all training centers, good ones that is, follow this 
>> style of training.  You can find centers, like the Iowa Department 
>> for the Blind, where there structure is similar to the NFB centers, 
>> but housing is on campus, not apartments.  Regardless, challenge 
>> yourself and find out what you really are able to do.

>> Many of us can a test to the positive influence of a good training 
>> center that teaches Structured Discovery.  Sleep shades and 
>> completing six to nine months is essential to these programs.  Do we 
>> choose universities that truncate their programs because we don't 
>> want to spend time completing a degree?  No, we know we have to work 
>> for four years, or longer, so we can receive the best education 
>> possible.  Why do we view training centers for the blind differently?

>> I urge us all to take a good look inside and figure out who we are 
>> and what we are capable of.  We will all encounter situations in life

>> that make us nervous or scared, but does that mean we limit our 
>> lives?  Do we not reach our full potential because of nerves?  No, of

>> course not.  We should not follow an opposite line of thinking, then,

>> when it comes to choosing a training center.

>> Centers that do not offer this kind of training only send a message 
>> that blindness is limiting, and one is better off with some vision.  
>> Yes, I have visited centers like this and it is sad to see blind 
>> people not reaching their full potential or not understanding how 
>> independent they can be.  The reason NFB centers were created was 
>> because most other agencies were not teaching and instilling this 
>> sense of independence, and they were not willing to open their minds 
>> to a new way.  Like many other situations, we were not going to 
>> accept this so we opened our own training centers.  Not everyone 
>> graduating from these centers leaves ready to make their mark on the 
>> world, bbut this is life.  Many, though, leave these centers knowing 
>> they can do anything, and they are ready to face the world.

>> I am one of these people.  I never understood the fear of training or

>> the insistance that it was not important.  When I started losing my 
>> vision, I couldn't wait to train.  I knew I could still do things, I 
>> just had to figure out how to do them.  I did not accept what people 
>> told me, that I was limited and would not be able to do a lot of 
>> things. I felt this way long before I trained, long before I knew of 
>> the NFB or any other group.  I was nervous, and at 23, leaving for 
>> training, in a whole other state, was the first time I truly lived 
>> away from home.  I have not been back since.

>> I live on my own (wel, with my husband, who, by the way, is blind 
>> too). I take the bus, I go to school, I work.  I do everything, and 
>> more, and I owe this to a positive training center.

>> I will stop.  I apologize, but I feel so strongly about this topic.  
>> As blind people-- as people-- I know we can do anything we put our 
>> minds too.  I simply don't want to see anyone stifle their own 
>> potential.

>> Bridgit

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> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace

> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key. 
> But only you can have the drive."

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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:37:14 -0500
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble
Message-ID: <3AA6A82AA55142DF9A7FD827BB30C7B5 at Rufus>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Hello,

Over the past few days I've noticed various statements of how blind
people want to ensure they are not forced to mingle with or wind up
married to other blind people.  What each person does or prefers is of
course up to the individual, but I'd like to caution us against
projecting some of the very same stereotypes we have been fighting for
years amongst ourselves.

In the case of training programs, I think it is only logical for people
to get to know their fellow students.  This does not mean people should
be tied at the hip after hours, but I would think part of the experience
is to take what you have learned during class hours and use it out
there, where it really counts.  Part of my confidence in different areas
is owed to a heavy-handed mother and great teachers, but more of it came
from observing other blind people at conventions and legislative
seminars.  Something as simple as observing a blind person get up from a
table at a food court and head off for a refill on their drink was
pretty inspirational for me in high school and played a key role in my
personal development later in college. Class will only teach you so
much, and the friendships you are likely to develop during this phase in
your life have a pretty good chance of following you for the long-term.

Now, if you come across someone who only wants to talk about JAWS or
Apple or the never-ending debate of NFB versus ACB, you may have a point
about running the other way.  Or, you could think of it as a teaching
opportunity. Training should not just be about what you can take away,
but also, what you can give back.  You just might be the person who can
help out this sheltered individual.

The point about relationships is trickier to make in a diplomatic
fashion. At the risk of offending people, I think the fear of dating
and/or marrying another blind person is at least partially owed to that
person's own insecurities.  I believe their views might shift after they
themselves feel more confident about themselves.  I don't want to say
that things are easy when both partners are blind.  I don't want to
belittle the conveniences from such things like the sighted person being
able to drive their blind spouse, but I also do not want us to create
artificial barriers for ourselves, because the presence or absence of
blindness is not what's going to make a relationship work.

All of this having been said, there are aspects of the blindness bubble
that do trouble me.  This is only a theory, and I welcome education if
my views are sorely mistaken.

I think it is very easy for advocates and teachers to become complacent
with their landscape to the point that their views become a bit limited.
Working in the field of blindness is a tiring exercise, and when this is
all you do, I believe there is the potential to create a false sense of
confidence.  I'm not going to make a clear point without concrete
examples, and again, at the unfortunate risk of offending still more
people, I think in some ways it is almost counterproductive to work at
NFB training centers and even our National Center in Baltimore.  The
reason for this is that even though the students and skill sets change,
the method does not.  You become an expert at what you do and expect
your students or your membership to just learn it, use it, and succeed
at it.  For instance, it is easy for a training center instructor to
expect a student to become confident in the hypothetical span of nine
months, and during those nine months the student may very well become
confident in that learning environment.  But, the learning environment
will be significantly different when the person returns to the real
world where there are no other blind people or instructors to keep the
momentum going.  Also, it is easy to impress upon an affiliate or
chapter to just get out there and recruit more members and cultivate
more partnerships, but neither of these things are straightforward, even
among sighted organizations.  This is why in my company I over emphasize
the need to work collaboratively with people and organizations in the
community to create an all-inclusive environment.

I am not suggesting that the blindness field is wasted.  I am also not
suggesting that people who work in the blindness field are selling
themselves short.  On the contrary, I respect their courage to fight
what to me seems an overwhelming battle.  It is imperative that we
attract great professionals to help create a good foundation, but the
longer you work at something, the higher your expectations become.
Sometimes, I think there is an unintentional risk of these expectations
being so high that it just turns people off, because these high
standards are good within the blindness field but are a little less
sturdy in the context of the general public.  Just as professors
sometimes take sabbaticals, I hope there are opportunities for blind
professionals to get out there for a little while and refresh their
understanding of the environment in which their charges are living.

Anyway, I hope this made sense and that it is not taken in a negative
tone. As long as we're talking about training philosophies, I hope that
we can examine the responsibilities of the student as much as the
professionals.

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam
Ewing

------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 10:16:29 -0500
From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>,	"'National Association of Blind Students
	mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble
Message-ID: <D90D3B75F5274F6697CCFE81969BD76F at Cptr233>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

On the subject of relationships. I was once married to a sighted man,
who wanted me to see. Yes it was great having a person who could drive
me, who could read things, and so on. But he did not understand my
blindness, nor even cared to. He did not want a blind wife. And in the
long run my blindness was used against me when it came to my children.
Now with that said, I am married to a blind person. Yes transportation
is a bit more challenging, yes reading things is challenging, but
certainly those things are not doable in some way. My husband now does
not want to fix me; he is okay with my blindness just as much as I am.
And we get a kick out of making jokes about funny things in our life
when it comes to not seeing. My husband was also previously married to a
sighted person. So in that sense, we understand the struggles that go
along with being married to a sighted person. Neither of us married each
other because we were in the NFB, or because he was blind, or because I
knew he would understand me better. We married because we fell in good
old fashion love. Yes we met at the 2009 Youth Slam. And certainly I am
not suggesting that people attend Youth Slam to meet there future
spouses, boyfriends or girlfriends. The seriousness of it, when I
attended Youth Slam, I was so done with men. But there he was. Yes
looking at how as a blind person, how he dealt with things, how
independent he was, yes those were all factors, as if he did not deal
with his blindness well. I would have never chosen to move the
relationship forward. We did not marry because we thought society would
think it was cute, or that it is expected of us. And I like to think
that God had something to do with it, but that is my personal opinion. 

But no one should marry another blind person just on the bases of
understanding, or that you're in the same ORG, or your both guide dog
users, or because society thinks it is expected of blind people to marry
blind people. No one should marry a sighted person, just because of the
transportation thing, or the fact that reading things is easier. You
should marry and be happy with someone who makes you happy, who will
treat you well, who loves you for you, and who does not want to change
you. 

So both my husband and I, just happen to be blind, so what! So what
blind people marry sighted people. My point, not so eloquently stated,
marry, date, girlfriend or boyfriend someone for them, not for what they
have or do not have, but who they are. 

Marsha 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:37 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] The Blind Bubble

Hello,