[nabs-l] Training centers

bookwormahb at earthlink.net bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sat Feb 12 03:20:04 UTC 2011


Hi Ignasi,
Anmol is right. If parents raise you with the skills and let you have 
opportunity like other sighted kids, that is wonderful.
Then you develop the skills as you grow up.
Problem solving and experiementing and just practicing through opportunity 
is the right way.
That is better than any training center can do.
You got your training growing up. I wish more parents would have progressive 
attitudes.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Anmol Bhatia
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:00 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers

Ignasi,
>From everything you have described I don't think you really need to attend 
>a training center. Your parents did what I wish every parent would do which 
>is to have a attitude that a blind person can do anything if given the 
>opportunity. Your parents installed the confidence that every parent should 
>install in their kids which is to let them travel independently and do 
>things and fail. That is better then any training that any of the NFB 
>training centers or any other training center can provide. So I do not 
>really think you need a training center.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps 
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze 
among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Fri, 2/11/11, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 2:25 PM
> Hello,
> I've been reading emails from this thread for a while and
> figured I would finally say something, without trying to
> offend anyone as always. In very general terms, I feel as
> though many times training centers are more useful to people
> who become blind as adults or even as children. This is
> because they must learn how to do things in ways they had
> never imagined before. It's true that I'm saying this basing
> myself on personal experiences alone, and without having too
> much knowledge about training centers. I was born totally
> blind and from the very beginning my parents made me find my
> own ways to do pretty much everything. They were told that
> me being blind didn't mean I couldn't do stuff, so even
> though they weren't necessarily sure how I was going to
> handle things, they let me try and fail over and over, which
> I guess is the equivalent of training :). We all know that
> blind people can do pretty much everything, but sometimes I
> feel like they tend to wait a little too much until training
> is given to them, when training might not be necessary. I
> received a very small amount of orientation and mobility
> training as a child, because at one point I saw that
> operating a cane wasn't all that complicated. Once I
> understood how traffic worked, my mom decided that I was
> going to go to school by myself every day. I live in a very
> large city so I had to take two busses to get there. I got
> lost many times, and I had to call home several times for
> someone to come and pick me up. But by age 11 I could
> navigate the city pretty confidently. That's actually
> earlier than any of my other siblings, because my mother was
> really obsessed about me being independent, to the point
> that the blind organization in Spain even suggested that she
> was being a little irresponsible. She also sent me to all
> kinds of random camps every summer in France and England (by
> myself, with no other blind people) because she thought that
> that would help me to be independent in all kinds of
> situations. This is just an example to say that in my
> particular case I don't feel like I need a training center
> because I never had the choice to let other people do things
> for me, so I had to learn how to do them. Still, I must say
> that sometimes I have doubts about this, especially after I
> attended the NFB national convention last year and saw that
> everyone was talking about these training centers that I had
> never heard about. After convention I thought about it for a
> while, and ended up coming to the conclusion that I don't
> really need training, but could I be wrong? I don't know
> what everybody thinks about this. I don't think I need the
> training, but what's true is that I am really not used to
> being around other blind people. This sometimes really
> bothers me because I am blind myself. My girlfriend is
> sighted, and so are all my friends. I spend most of the year
> playing concerts either by myself or with orchestras and
> conductors who are also sighted. At this point I probably
> wouldn't have time for training anyways, but I think the
> part of it which involves getting to know other blind
> individuals seems fun and interesting, just because I'm not
> used to it.
>
> IC
> On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:00 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>
> > Hi Antonio and all,
> >
> > When I used the term "enlightened blind person" I was
> being satirical,
> > and poking a little fun at the notion that a training
> center is
> > magical or that training center graduates are
> inherently superior to
> > non-graduates. I don't genuinely believe in the
> concept of an
> > "enlightened blind person".
> >
> > As for need and benefit, I would agree with what Sean
> said. I think we
> > are always growing and can always gain a little more
> confidence and
> > knowledge by spending some time with competent blind
> people, and a
> > center is an excellent way to do that, but of course
> this must be
> > weighed against the cost of taking time out of your
> life, as well as
> > the cost to your rehab agency.
> >
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 2/11/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >> Al,
> >> Good point; if you Need a training center
> experience you got to prove it and
> >> link it to your vocational goal.
> >> If you just want to or say Oh I can benefit from
> learning more of this or
> >> that skill, that will not fly.
> >> In these times of budget tightness and
> accountability, everything has to be
> >> justified.
> >> Glad you pointed that directive out; its very
> important to use for
> >> justifications.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Al Spooner
> >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:45 AM
> >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list'
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I have not been able to follow every detail of
> this thread topic, so please
> >> excuse me if I am repeating something that has
> already been mentioned.
> >>
> >> To help you define "need," what you have to do is
> read a couple of sections
> >> of our RSA regulations regarding informed
> choice.  In so many words, the
> >> regulations state that you are the person that
> defines this need, and it
> >> should be chosen to allow you to maximize your
> individual potential.
> >>
> >> Below is a quote taken directly from a policy
> directive, RSA-PD-01-03 dated
> >> January 17, 2001, written by Dr. Fred Schroeder,
> during his time as RSA
> >> Commissioner.
> >> Pay specific attention to the following verbiage
> "consistent with the
> >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns,
> abilities, capabilities,
> >> interests, and informed choice"
> >>
> >> Below are the two sections of this directive that
> I am referring too.
> >> Beginning of quote:
> >> "The 1998 amendments link the individual's
> employment outcome with the
> >> informed choice of the individual.  Section
> 102(b)(3)(A) of the Act
> >> specifies the description of the individual's
> chosen employment outcome as a
> >> "mandatory component" of the IPE and stipulates
> that the  employment outcome
> >> must be chosen by the individual and must be
> consistent with the strengths,
> >> resources, priorities, concerns, abilities,
> capabilities, interests, and
> >> informed choice of the individual.  The
> respective responsibilities of the
> >> individual and the State VR agency in working
> toward the achievement of the
> >> employment outcome must be described in the
> IPE  (Section 102(b)(3)(E)(i)
> >> and (ii) of the Act)."
> >>
> >> "The link between the employment outcome and
> informed choice is further
> >> reinforced by the description of VR services in
> section 103(a) of the Act as
> >> "any services described in an individualized plan
> for employment necessary
> >> to assist an individual with a disability in
> preparing for, securing,
> >> retaining, or regaining an employment outcome that
> is consistent with the
> >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns,
> abilities, capabilities,
> >> interests, and informed choice of the
> individual."  This is a change from
> >> the previous description of VR services as "any
> goods or services necessary
> >> to render an individual with a disability
> employable."  These changes make
> >> it clear that the cost, duration, or extent of
> vocational rehabilitation
> >> services that an eligible individual may need to
> achieve a particular
> >> employment goal should not be considered in
> identifying the goal.  Instead,
> >> the employment outcome must be based only on what
> is consistent with the
> >> strengths, resources, priorities, concerns,
> abilities, capabilities,
> >> interests, and informed choice of the
> individual."
> >> End of quote
> >>
> >> Al Spooner
> >> Assistant Director
> >> Outreach and Marketing
> >> Blindness Learning In New Dimensions, Incorporated
> (BLIND, Incorporated)
> >> 100 East 22nd Street
> >> Minneapolis, MN 55404
> >> Office: 612-872-0100
> >> Toll Free: 800-597-9558
> >> Fax: 612-872-9358
> >> Web Site: www.blindinc.org
> >> Office E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> >> Of Sean Whalen
> >> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 2:51 AM
> >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers
> >>
> >> Antonio,
> >>
> >> Is it justifiable to use financial resources to
> buy a student a laptop that
> >> that student could benefit from but does not
> need?
> >>
> >> What do we mean by "need?" None of us really need
> training, we could all sit
> >> at home without skills or technology and collect
> SSI, right? A need is vague
> >> and undefined until you put it in the context of
> an end to be achieved by
> >> fulfillment of the need. I didn't need e-texts to
> complete classes in
> >> school. I could have used readers. I did, however,
> need e-texts to perform
> >> up to my potential in classes, as I very much
> struggle with retaining
> >> information when it is read aloud to me. Needs are
> not what matter. The cost
> >> of the things we need to achieve a goal weighed
> against the prospective
> >> benefit to be gained by attainment of the goal are
> what matter.
> >>
> >> I absolutely believe that any blind person could
> benefit from attending a
> >> training center. This said, I certainly do not
> believe that all blind people
> >> need to, or even should, attend a training center.
> I chose to do so because
> >> I was never taught to read in school. I felt that
> the benefits to be gained
> >> by learning Braille, plus whatever other useful
> computer tips, travel tricks
> >> and life lessons that I might pick up along the
> way outweighed the cost of
> >> my giving up 6 months of my life to undertake the
> training. I have no doubt
> >> I could have been successful in life without
> spending time in Ruston, but I
> >> definitely feel that I took more away from the
> experience than I gave up to
> >> go. Each of us must make our own calculations
> based on cost/benefit analysis
> >> to determine what is the best option for us as
> individuals.
> >>
> >> Attending an NFB center is no guarantee of life
> success. Not attending a
> >> center is no guarantee of failure. Plenty of
> people who attend centers won't
> >> reach their true potential, and plenty of people
> who do not attend will do
> >> so.
> >>
> >> Saying that anybody could benefit is a far cry
> from claiming that everybody
> >> ought to attend. Frankly, I think that people
> benefit in one way or another
> >> from almost every experience each of us has. This
> might not make them good,
> >> enjoyable or useful experiences, but there is
> still some benefit to be
> >> gained in virtually all circumstances.
> >>
> >> More to the point, whether, and how, to get
> training is a highly individual
> >> choice and wholly dependent on the particulars of
> one's skill level, age,
> >> family situation, employment status and prospects,
> and myriad other things.
> >> Anybody who tells you that everybody should attend
> a center is being
> >> doctrinaire, but anybody who cannot acknowledge
> the benefits, in many cases
> >> vast benefits, that good training can yield is
> being equally rigid and
> >> dogmatic.
> >>
> >> By the way, I'm not claiming that you do this. I
> just found your post to be
> >> a good jumping off point.
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >>
> >> Sean
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Arielle Silverman
> > President, National Association of Blind Students
> > Phone:  602-502-2255
> > Email:
> > nabs.president at gmail.com
> > Website:
> > www.nabslink.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
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>
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