[nabs-l] Philosophy in society
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Mon Feb 28 02:32:30 UTC 2011
To all,
I have to appologize for my last email. Most blind people, even the
ones that frustrate me to no end, deserve more respect than I just
gave. I can only think of a few to whom all my last blanket
statements apply.
Best,
Kirt
On 2/27/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Serena,
> Absolutely. I'm talking about those whose only diagnosed disability
> is blindness. But certainly their sense of entitlement, laziness, low
> expectations and nonexistent work ethics could all be considered
> disabilities, in their own right.
>
> On 2/27/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hi Kirt,
>>
>> I agree ... I know plenty of blind people (not on this list) who could
>> definitely use better social skills. Keep in mind, though, many blind
>> people who only talk about blindness may have additional disabilities
>> that
>> make social interaction difficult. I know plenty of these.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Kirt Manwaring
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:07 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society
>>
>> Arielle,
>> I really shouldn't beat a dead horse senseless. But here I go again.
>> :)
>> I suppose, strictly speaking, you're right. To each his/her own.
>> But I know plenty of blind people, a disproportionately large number,
>> who don't know how to interact with the sighted public. Their lives
>> are blindness. And they don't ever interact with anything, or anyone
>> else. It's no wonder, then, that we as a blind community sometimes
>> get a bad rap for being narrow-minded, exclusive, and even eletist.
>> Were a sighted person who didn't know a thing about blindness, and I
>> were to meet at random one of the blind people who I currently
>> know...odds are, I probably wouldn't be impressed enough to think of
>> them as an equal. Because, let's face it, too many blind people have
>> been told their whole lives they can't succeed in the sighted world.
>> And, because of that rediculous unspoken mantra, (maybe explicitly
>> spoken sometimes, I don't know) they don't know how to handle
>> themselves with sighted people when they need to. I think we all know
>> a good number of blind people who fit the description I just gave. I
>> know far too many. So, on that front, I rest my case.
>> Now let's move on to the other issues you raised. For those blind
>> people who want blindness to basically be their whole identity...fine.
>> It's not my place to say they shouldn't do that. It's certainly good
>> to see qualified blind people working as cane travel instructors,
>> braille teachers, rehab counselors, etc. And I have just as much
>> respect for a blind husband and wife as I would for a sighted couple,
>> all other factors being equal, provided the blind spouses both have
>> the skills they need to independently manage a marriage and, if they
>> so choose, a family.
>> That being said, I've taken a lot of heat from lots of blind people
>> for not being "involved" enough. Never mind I'm in school, I have a
>> social life at school, and I have lots of other things I want to do
>> outside the blind community. As I've said, I'm not going to judge
>> people who make the blind community their primary social network. I
>> only ask for that to go both ways. Blindness is not me, I just happen
>> to be blind along with all the plethora of other things that help
>> define me. Unfortunately, often times I don't get the same respect
>> I'm trying to give. Y'all do your thing, I'll do mine. And let's all
>> be friendly and realize the diversity we all bring to the table. You
>> may choose to live your life primarily with blind people, more power
>> to you! I choose not to, and all I want is that same courtesy.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>> P.S. Arielle, that was in no way directed against you. Just...some
>> of my frustrations about some other people came out. I'm not meaning
>> to accuse or insult anyone here, so please forgive me if it sounded
>> that way.
>>
>> On 2/26/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Kurt and all,
>>>
>>> I agree with Darian. Just because someone talks about blindness stuff
>>> a lot with their blind friends doesn't necessarily mean they will have
>>> similarly narrow conversation when with sighted people. Being a part
>>> of two minority groups (blind people and Jews) I can attest that my
>>> blind friends and I talk a lot about blindness and my Jewish friends
>>> and I talk a lot about Jewish things. I don't talk about the blindness
>>> stuff with my Jewish friends, and vice versa. I also tend to talk
>>> about psychology a lot with my grad student and faculty colleagues. I
>>> don't even think it's a problem if someone's primary identity is
>>> blindness, they work in the blindness field and they marry a blind
>>> person, as long as they're able to get along OK with sighted
>>> coworkers, friends or acquaintances when they need to. Some of us
>>> prefer to have a wide circle of friends or multiple social communities
>>> but others are perfectly content with a few friends or one main
>>> community and I don't think it's our place to pass judgment on these
>>> people. I can understand the concerns about our public image, but
>>> again I think that boils down to how well the blind person is able to
>>> interact with sighted people when they need to. I think we should make
>>> an effort to be kind and inclusive to sighted people around us, but we
>>> don't necessarily need to reach out to them as our friends.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 2/17/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> So very true.
>>>>
>>>> I remember being in the Mall Of America,
>>>> the 4 of us kids were going with one of the councelers on a
>>>> rolercoaster,
>>>> and they tried to force an adult administrator to go with us.
>>>>
>>>> Councelors fought it out and won that one though,
>>>> but yes, I've seen some quite bad ones.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I remember a guy once on a plane--the flight attendance that
>> is,
>>>> said my cane had to be stored in the overhead because it could "be used
>> as
>>>> a
>>>> weapon."
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 16, 2011, at 11:19 PM, humberto wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Interesting essay: We all run into stories like that. I know, people
>> just
>>>>> don't understand about blindness.
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 18:02:23 -0600
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophy in society
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a total drag when people want to only talk about your
>>>>> blindness--
>>>>>> as though you have nothing to offer. I try to view these moments
>>>>> as
>>>>>> educational opportunities. I kindly and diplomatically explain,
>>>>> to the
>>>>>> best of my abilities, how blind people "do" things. I try to
>>>>> answer
>>>>>> questions, but then turn the conversation around to discuss other
>>>>>> matters. Find opportunities in conversations to change the
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not always easy. I do think it is perfectly acceptable to,
>>>>> in a
>>>>>> diplomatic fashion, explain that blind people have other
>>>>> interest. Ask
>>>>>> the person questions so a back-and-forth begins.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am posting an essay I wrote that exemplifies this discussion, I
>>>>> think.
>>>>>> There is a section with some strong language so if you do not
>>>>> enjoy
>>>>>> strong language, you may want to skip this. It is only a small
>>>>> section
>>>>>> that includes the language. Enjoy. *smile*
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Event of the Century
>>>>>
>>>>>> The chill wind whips my hair as I cane along the Fuddrucker's
>>>>> building
>>>>>> with my long white cane searching for the door. My friends do
>>>>> the same
>>>>>> with their canes. The scent of grease filters through the chill
>>>>> air.
>>>>>> It is the unmistakeable odor of a hamburger joint. We are cold,
>>>>> and we
>>>>>> are hungry. Finding the door, we all scurry inside. We are
>>>>> seven
>>>>>> friends out on a Saturday having a good time-we all happen to be
>>>>> blind.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Piling into the entrance, we tap our white canes investigating
>>>>> the
>>>>>> restaurant. Ross, my husband, and I find a wall and follow it
>>>>> with our
>>>>>> canes tapping back-and-forth against the wall. "Hey guys," I
>>>>> call out,
>>>>>> "I believe this is the counter." The click of cane tips echoes
>>>>> from all
>>>>>> directions as Shane, Amy, Audra, Jamie and Carol find their way
>>>>> to the
>>>>>> counter. Since the menu is not available in Braille, I ask the
>>>>> cashier
>>>>>> to please read the choices out loud. Ross and I order as our
>>>>> friends
>>>>>> from Lincoln, who we do not see often, decide what sounds best.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Grabbing my cup, I listen for the soda fountain. Ice chinks into
>>>>> a cup
>>>>>> and I follow the sound. I encounter an island separating the
>>>>> soda
>>>>>> fountain from where I stand. Pausing for a second, I determine
>>>>> which
>>>>>> direction to walk around the island, but before I can take
>>>>> another step,
>>>>>> a stranger approaches me.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Can I help you?" she asks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "No thanks. I'm just going to fill my cup," I say. As I step
>>>>> around the
>>>>>> stranger, arcing my cane, I can tell she is hesitating. Before I
>>>>> know
>>>>>> what to do, she pinches a fold of my coat and yanks me around the
>>>>>> island.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "It's this way," she says .
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Thanks, but that's the direction I was moving in, ma'am."
>>>>>
>>>>>> The stranger pauses again as my friends move past looking for an
>>>>> open
>>>>>> table. "Where is your companion?" she asks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Well, seeing as we're all adults, we don't have a companion." I
>>>>> follow
>>>>>> the cane taps leaving the stranger alone to ponder the miracle
>>>>> happening
>>>>>> before her eyes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "The freak show's out. Everyone should grab their camera," Audra
>>>>> says
>>>>>> as I approach the table.
>>>>>
>>>>>> We all quietly chuckle. We don't mean to be rude, but we are all
>>>>> use to
>>>>>> this reaction when in public. The amazing blind people who have
>>>>> left
>>>>>> the security of their homes! Yes, I am cynical, but this has
>>>>> always
>>>>>> been a part of my character. Encountering ridiculous ideas and
>>>>> outdated
>>>>>> attitudes towards blindness on a daily basis, keeps my cynicism
>>>>> fresh.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eight years ago I would never have thought the hardest part of
>>>>> being
>>>>>> blind was dealing with society's perceptions and attitudes. I
>>>>> very
>>>>>> quickly adjusted to my blindness, and it is a part of who I am.
>>>>> I
>>>>>> accept it just as I accept the color of my hair or my inability
>>>>> to solve
>>>>>> a math equation quickly. I am no more amazing than anyone else,
>>>>> but
>>>>>> because I do things without vision, it suddenly makes me
>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is difficult to be around people, not because I am blind, but
>>>>> because
>>>>>> others usually have problems accepting me as a person and not as
>>>>> a blind
>>>>>> person. Sometimes, I would rather spend time with children
>>>>> because they
>>>>>> have an inate ability to trust and not doubt because of a
>>>>> perceived
>>>>>> reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My favorite past time these days is spending time with my nephew
>>>>> and
>>>>>> nieces. I must have the baby bug or something-- the biological
>>>>> clock
>>>>>> and all. They bring joy to my life, and yes, I must admit, I
>>>>> talk
>>>>>> endlessly about them.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Caiden is seven and a bit too smart for his own good. Chloe is
>>>>> five and
>>>>>> extremely independent, but she loves with her whole heart.
>>>>> Kensley is
>>>>>> two, and she has the sweetest temperament, but every now and
>>>>> then, she
>>>>>> gets a wild, mischievious glimmer in her eyes. Penny is one and
>>>>> full of
>>>>>> energy, but I have become a surrogate mother to her. I have
>>>>> watched them
>>>>>> evolve from tiny beings, into real people, and it is through them
>>>>> I see
>>>>>> where the future can lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am often met with dubious stares and hesitant concerns when
>>>>> people
>>>>>> find out that I frequently watch my nephew and nieces.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "How could you watch children?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Isn't it difficult?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Can blind people do that?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> I hear these questions repeatedly, and depending on my mood, I
>>>>> respond
>>>>>> accordingly. I do not believe how insulting people can be.
>>>>>
>>>>>> When I take the kids to the park or the mall or on a walk, people
>>>>>> usually think the kids are guiding me around. Yes, a
>>>>> seven-year-old,
>>>>>> five-year-old, two-year-old and a baby guide me. We would all be
>>>>> dead.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if people think about what they say.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The kids never question my abilities. Blindness is normal to
>>>>> them. My
>>>>>> actions speak volumes to Caiden, Chloe, Kensley and Penny. We
>>>>> think
>>>>>> children have mental limitations, but they understand what adults
>>>>> can
>>>>>> not. My babies accept me and do not doubt their safety with me.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Caiden loves to play video games. I think he is a bit young for
>>>>> this,
>>>>>> but what do adults know, right? If allowed, he would play all
>>>>> day long.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Once, my mom was watching the kids, and in an attempt to get
>>>>> Caiden to
>>>>>> stop the game and play outside, she told him, "If you play too
>>>>> many
>>>>>> video games you will go blind."
>>>>>
>>>>>> Caiden's response was, "Grandma, it's not a big deal to be blind.
>>>>> Look
>>>>>> at Aunt Bridgy."
>>>>>
>>>>>> With these words, I realize the impact I have on my nephew and
>>>>> nieces.
>>>>>> They are the beginning of a generation that can break the
>>>>> stereotypes
>>>>>> about blindness. The efforts I make seem so small, but through
>>>>> these
>>>>>> children, I know the effect is lasting.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently Chloe has taken to walking around with her eyes closed
>>>>> because
>>>>>> she, "Wants to be like Aunt Bridgy." Every time she is at my
>>>>> house, she
>>>>>> insists on using a white cane to walk around with. She is also
>>>>>> fascinated with Braille and wants to learn this tactile form of
>>>>> print.
>>>>>> Every where she goes, she points out signs that have Braille on
>>>>> them.
>>>>>> She has no fear. To Chloe, blindness is just another way to
>>>>> "be."
>>>>>
>>>>>> Children are not caught up in their perceptions, but will believe
>>>>> what
>>>>>> you tell them at face value. Exposure to me has allowed my
>>>>> nephew and
>>>>>> nieces to learn and understand that life does not stop after
>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>> Diversity is wide, and children accept people for who they are.
>>>>> My
>>>>>> children accept me as capable and confident-the way they view
>>>>> other
>>>>>> adults in their lives. In their eyes, I am no different, and
>>>>> there is
>>>>>> no thought of limitations.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kensley and Penny are still grasping the fact that I do not
>>>>> respond to
>>>>>> visual cues, like nodding their heads. Both have quickly
>>>>> adjusted to
>>>>>> finding other means in which to express their wants. When wanting
>>>>> to be
>>>>>> held, they come to me and place their arms around my legs. When
>>>>> they
>>>>>> want to show me something like a toy, they place it in my hands.
>>>>> Kensley
>>>>>> and Penny do not question my ability to care for them. To them,
>>>>> I am
>>>>>> comfort, I am love, I am security, and of course I am food!
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes, I pin a small bell to the back of their clothing so I
>>>>> know
>>>>>> where they are, but usually their gibber-gabber gives their
>>>>> location
>>>>>> away. As Penny and Kensley learn to speak, they will understand
>>>>> that
>>>>>> they must use their words, and not gestures, to communicate with
>>>>> me.
>>>>>> These two will grow up never thinking I am odd, or doubt that I
>>>>> can care
>>>>>> for them.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Adults, on the other hand, do not see beyond my blindness. The
>>>>> world
>>>>>> created a reality in which blindness is a debilitating disability
>>>>>> leaving one limited and to be pitied. True, not everyone buys
>>>>> into the
>>>>>> antiquated stereotypes, and not everyone believes me inferior,
>>>>> but, in
>>>>>> my experience, most people still cling to old notions.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was leaving campus one day, and a man approached me from behind
>>>>> and
>>>>>> declared, "You are amazing!" I knew what he meant, but I acted
>>>>> as
>>>>>> though I had no clue.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "What do you mean?" I asked.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "You get around so well. It is truly amazing you can walk."
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Thanks, but I am blind, not paralyzed."
>>>>>
>>>>>> "I just mean it is amazing you don't run into stuff."
>>>>>
>>>>>> "If I didn't use this cane I would." I proceeded down the steps
>>>>> of the
>>>>>> fine arts building. Following behind me, he seemed poised to
>>>>> capture a
>>>>>> blind person out of their natural environment.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I looked up as I felt snow fall lightly on my head and face.
>>>>> "Wow, it's
>>>>>> snowing again?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> "See, you're amazing! How do you know it's snowing? It must be
>>>>> your
>>>>>> sixth sense."
>>>>>
>>>>>> "No, I feel it. Can't you?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> Diplomacy is the usual route I take, but there are times when I
>>>>> can no
>>>>>> longer deal with the attitudes forced on me. I try to educate-I
>>>>> try to
>>>>>> be positive, but watch out if you catch me on a bad day.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I stood, a few months ago, waiting at the curb to cross the
>>>>> street.
>>>>>> Listening to the traffic on Center street in front of me, and the
>>>>>> traffic on Paddock road to my right, I prepare to cross. As a
>>>>> person
>>>>>> who is blind, I listen to the sound of traffic to help me cross a
>>>>>> street, and yes, it is safe to do this. Still not sure? How
>>>>> many
>>>>>> sighted people get into accidents? I rest my case.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Once the light changes, it won't stay green long, and I must zip
>>>>> across.
>>>>>> I wait and wait and wait-the red light (red as in I have the
>>>>> right-away)
>>>>>> is a freakin' fifteen-seconds long, but when traffic has the
>>>>> green, I
>>>>>> stand here forever. I checked the time, three o' clock on the
>>>>> dot.
>>>>>> Come on. I tapped my long white cane on the pavement out of
>>>>> boredom.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Suddenly, I'm grabbed by the elbow from behind. With cars on
>>>>> Center
>>>>>> Street still zooming by, a crazed pedestrian forces me into
>>>>> oncoming
>>>>>> traffic. I could not stop, so I continue this farce as this
>>>>> Crazy Carla
>>>>>> dragged me across the street. Cars whizzed and rumbled by, and I
>>>>> had no
>>>>>> choice but to keep truckin'.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Reaching the other side, I slapped the strangers hand away and
>>>>> shouted,
>>>>>> "What the hell are you doing?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Are you good?" Crazy Carla asked, ignoring my question.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Are you insane? You can see, right? Clearly we did not have
>>>>> the
>>>>>> right-away. Shit!"
>>>>>
>>>>>> Crazy Carla, who, I swore, was about to meet her fate back out
>>>>> on
>>>>>> Center street , tried grabbing my arm again.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Grabbing her wrist, I asked, "Do I know you? No, so what gives
>>>>> you the
>>>>>> idea I want a complete stranger touching me?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Can you make it home from here?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> I stared in her direction. Is she deaf?
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Uh, I think I'm good. How the hell do you think I was getting
>>>>> around
>>>>>> before you, like a maniac, drove me across the street?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Have a good day. Ya' sure you can get home okay?"
>>>>>
>>>>>> Throwing my backpack down, I shouted, "O-H MY GOD! Fuck you!"
>>>>> Grabbing
>>>>>> my bag, I turned and stomped towards my apartment complex.
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I am not proud of such outburst, but I don't accept the
>>>>> perceptions
>>>>>> society has constructed about blindness either. I, who was
>>>>> safely and
>>>>>> cautiously waiting to cross a busy city street, was assumed
>>>>> incapable by
>>>>>> a sighted person who threw caution to the wind and placed me, and
>>>>>> themselves, into a dangerous situation. Instead of thinking,
>>>>> "Hmm, this
>>>>>> person is blind, but they are out and about on their own, they
>>>>> must be
>>>>>> okay-they must know what they are doing," they only "see" the
>>>>> blind girl
>>>>>> standing alone and do not get past that thought.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My friends all have similar stories. We are seven people
>>>>> enjoying each
>>>>>> other's company, but because we are all blind, it is considered
>>>>> the
>>>>>> event of the century. We range in age from twenty-five to
>>>>> thirty-five,
>>>>>> some of us have children, all of us work, but it is an awesome
>>>>>> accomplishment that we are socializing without a sighted
>>>>> companion.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is even more incredible that our conversation sounds like any
>>>>> other
>>>>>> conversation. This confuses our server as the girls talk about
>>>>> what to
>>>>>> do at the mall, and the guys talk about the football game playing
>>>>> on the
>>>>>> television.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "You're all blind, right?" he asks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Seven voices chorus, "Yes."
>>>>>
>>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:05:46 -0800
>>>>>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosiphy in society
>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>
>>>>> <AANLkTikL2J4zOC0PFjwZqC2v+UyOnOPxaKM791A3+vdZ at mail.gmail.co
>>>>> m
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> So, I was thinking about how what we learn in the NFb can
>>>>> translate
>>>>>> into society. For example, socializing, we want to be
>>>>> considered as
>>>>>> "normal" as the next person, but often we are asked the general
>>>>>> blindness related questions, not ina bad way, but because people
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> understand something and want to know what we do. How do people
>>>>> deal
>>>>>> with this? Say, you really had a long day, and the last thing
>>>>> you want
>>>>>> to hear is something related to blindness, but the grammys were
>>>>> on, and
>>>>>> you wouldn't mind talking about how a certain pop star finally
>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> win something *smile*. Or, you have the weel-meaning person
>>>>> trying to
>>>>>> direct you somewhere, when you've made it clear that you do not
>>>>> require
>>>>>> said assistance? How do you handle this without getting fairly
>>>>> annoyed
>>>>>> and/or taking
>>>>>> it to be more serious than it's simply ment. I know we talk
>>>>> about
>>>>>> the importance of educating the public, yet the equil
>>>>> importance of
>>>>>> stressing normality. How have people handled these ideas? How
>>>>> does
>>>>>> one operate keeping in mind the ideas of both living one's life
>>>>> and
>>>>>> keep in mind the next blind person that comes along?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Darian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 5369%40netzero.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Arielle Silverman
>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>> Email:
>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>> Website:
>>> www.nabslink.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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