From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun Jan  2 02:34:25 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 18:34:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy New Year!
Message-ID: <AANLkTim2hvv5v1WW79Yp0mCVdWeCMs1sy4oZQajfdbau@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
  I'm sure you are getting plenty of texts/ E-mails wishing you well
in the new year, so I figure that I would just add one more to read;
besides, you can't go  wrong with too much good energy, huh?
  I just wanted to wish you a very happy, healthy, successful and
amazing new year!  I hope that your resolutions become reality, and
theneggitive of the past be but a  distant memory.
 My sincerest well wishes to you in a time when we look to start fresh
and dream big.
   warm  regards,
  Darian

-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Sun Jan  2 02:59:44 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2011 21:59:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy New Year!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim2hvv5v1WW79Yp0mCVdWeCMs1sy4oZQajfdbau@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTim2hvv5v1WW79Yp0mCVdWeCMs1sy4oZQajfdbau@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71AFAB9112E54A7DA790EB8DA43E45A7@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hello,

Thanks, and happy new year back and to everyone else on the list. I am 
excited because now I can say I graduate in December, which isn't even a 
year away. I am beginning with a positive outlook. Have a great one 
everyone. Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darian Smith" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
To: "undisclosed-recipients:"
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2011 9:34 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Happy New Year!


Hi all,
  I'm sure you are getting plenty of texts/ E-mails wishing you well
in the new year, so I figure that I would just add one more to read;
besides, you can't go  wrong with too much good energy, huh?
  I just wanted to wish you a very happy, healthy, successful and
amazing new year!  I hope that your resolutions become reality, and
theneggitive of the past be but a  distant memory.
 My sincerest well wishes to you in a time when we look to start fresh
and dream big.
   warm  regards,
  Darian

-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin

_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 




From noreply at serotek.com  Mon Jan  3 18:14:36 2011
From: noreply at serotek.com (Serotek Announcements)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 12:14:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] News Release: HoverCam Teams with DocuScan Plus at CES
Message-ID: <auto-000184686718@mailfront2.g2host.com>


For Immediate Release



Media Contact:

<mailto:contact at thehovercam.com>contact at thehovercam.com

858-812-6358

Or

<mailto:pr at serotek.com>pr at serotek.com

612.246.4818, Ext. 104






HoverCam Teams with DocuScan Plus at CES

Alliance Brings Together Pocket-Sized Document Camera

and World’s First Cloud-Based Scanning Technology




SAN DIEGO, Calif – January 3, 2011 – 
<http://www.thehovercam.com/>Pathway Innovations 
and Technologies, Inc., the designer and 
manufacturer of HoverCam office cameras, and 
<http://www.serotek.com/>Serotek Corporation, the 
leading provider of accessible multi-platform and 
cloud-based mobile technology solutions, announce 
their alliance for CES 2011. Together the 
organizations deliver mainstream convenience plus 
assistive technology industry accessibility to 
mobile document scanning.  The HoverCam Mini™ and 
Neo™ office cameras and DocuScan Plus™, the 
world’s first cloud-based scanning solution, will 
be demonstrated together at the 2011 
International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in 
Las Vegas, Nevada, January 6 – 9.

Unlike conventional scanners, the portable Neo 
and pocket-sized HoverCam Mini scan documents in 
one second or less. Users need only plug it into 
any computer’s USB port. The 
<http://www.docuscanplus.com/>DocuScan Plus 
software offers high-quality optical character 
recognition to convert the printed page to text. 
This self-voicing application requires no special 
drivers and can read printed pages as well as 
many types of PDF files, including those 
containing text or those containing only images. 
The entire camera and software package is affordably priced below $800 USD.

“In today’s mobile business environment, users 
demand immediacy, portability and global 
accessibility,” said Ji Shen, Chairman and CEO, 
Pathway Innovations and Technology, Inc., “By 
teaming with Serotek’s DocuScan Plus technology, 
the HoverCam can deliver all three.”

“While DocuScan Plus was originally designed for 
the reading impaired, such as those who are 
blind, have low vision or are dyslexic, it also 
has mass appeal,” said Serotek CEO, Mike Calvo, 
“The size and simplicity of the HoverCam Mini 
broadens the mobility as well as the reach and 
appeal of this total scanning solution.”

Both products will be demonstrated at booth 
number 35955 on the second floor of the south 
hall at CES 2011. For additional information, 
contact Pathway Innovations and Technology, Inc. 
at 858-812-6358, visit 
<http://www.thehovercam.com/>www.thehovercam.com, 
contact Serotek Corporation at (612) 246-4818 or 
visit <http://www.docuscanplus.com/>www.docuscanplus.com.





Pathway Innovations and Technologies, Inc.

Based in San Diego, California, Pathway 
Innovations and Technology is the designer and 
manufacturer of HoverCam document cameras. Used 
in schools, hospitals and other businesses, 
HoverCam cameras are designed for document 
scanning, video recording, student assessment and 
the visually impaired. For more information, 
visit <http://www.thehovercam.com/>www.thehovercam.com.



Serotek Corporation

Based in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Serotek 
Corporation develops software and manufactures 
accessible, multi-platform and cloud-based mobile 
technology solutions. Committed to the mission of 
providing accessibility anywhere, Serotek designs 
its solutions to meet the needs of people who are 
blind or have low vision, with minimal training 
and investment. For more information, visit 
<http://www.serotek.com/>www.serotek.com.



###

From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 18:35:43 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 10:35:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [nfbwatlk] Fwd: White House Disability Group Call:
	Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00 PM
References: <8AFC8CDE-44AE-4872-80D0-3F9D351CCF7E@me.com>
Message-ID: <F5F8A902-DD71-458A-BC8D-30BDA2EAE6DE@gmail.com>

>> From: Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
>> Date: January 3, 2011 10:31:46 AM MST
>> To: "nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org" <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [nfbwatlk] Fwd: White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10	at 3:00 PM
>> Reply-To: NFB of Washington Talk Mailing List <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>>> From: "Outreach , Disability (CRT)" <Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov>
>>> Date: January 3, 2011 7:35:27 PST
>>> To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)" <Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov>
>>> Subject: White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00 PM
>>> 
>> 
>>> Dear Disability Community,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In order to help keep you more informed, the White House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls to update you on various disability issues as well as to introduce you to persons who work on disability issues in the federal government.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This call is off the record and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and ask that you distribute this email broadly to your networks and list serves so that anyone who wants to participate can do so.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Our next call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM Eastern.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The conference call information is below.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dial in: (800) 230-1093
>>> 
>>> Title: Disability Call (use instead of code)
>>> 
>>> Date of Call: 01/10/2011
>>> 
>>> Start Time: 3:00 PM Eastern
>>> 
>>> For live captioning, at time of call, log onto:
>>> 
>>> http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321 <http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Again, please distribute widely.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The White House · 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW · Washington DC 20500 · 202-456-1111
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbwatlk mailing list
>> nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbwatlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbwatlk_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com
> 
> maurice amateur radio call sign,kd0iko.
> national Federation of the blind of Cole Rondo assisted newsline coordinator, office phone 970.
> 373-3076 Northern Colorado amateur radio club tried Vander, newsletter editor. University of Northern Colorado student e-mail address , mine1533 at bears.unco.edu.
> note this message has been dictate by using MacSpeech dictate,  Some words may be spelled incorrectl, may also be in the wrong context.
> Please forgive any errors in the text of this communication.
> Thank you very much forreading this.
> 
> 
> 



From k7uij at panix.com  Mon Jan  3 19:36:51 2011
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 13:36:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10	at 3:00
	PM
Message-ID: <auto-000184700993@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Begin forwarded message: > From: "Outreach , 
Disability (CRT)" 
<Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov> > Date: January 
3, 2011 7:35:27 PST > To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)" 
<Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov> > Subject: White House 
Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00 
PM > > Dear Disability Community, > >  > > In 
order to help keep you more informed, the White 
House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls 
to update you on various disability issues as 
well as to introduce you to persons who work on 
disability issues in the federal 
government. > >  > > This call is off the record 
and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and 
ask that you distribute this email broadly to 
your networks and list serves so that anyone who 
wants to participate can do so. > >  > > Our next 
call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM 
Eastern. > >  > > The conference call information 
is below. > >  > > Dial in: (800) 230-1093 > > 
Title: Disability Call (use instead of code) > > 
Date of Call: 01/10/2011 > > Start Time: 3:00 PM 
Eastern > > For live captioning, at time of call, 
log onto: > > 
http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321 
<http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>  
 > >  > >  > > Again, please distribute 
widely. > >  > > The White House · 1600 
Pennsylvania Avenue, NW · Washington DC 20500 · 202-456-1111 > >  > >  




From liamskitten at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 01:41:14 2011
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 19:41:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
 3:00 PM
In-Reply-To: <auto-000184700993@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000184700993@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikuacg=Qn4z-i0k918jqmWbdp=WLDqwzhzj8WdW@mail.gmail.com>

Mike,

Did any subsequent messages give the dial-in info?  I know there's
that website where you can get captioning, and I'm not sure if the
call will be streamed from there, or if there's some info we're
missing.
Courtney

On 1/3/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Outreach ,
> Disability (CRT)"
> <Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov> > Date: January
> 3, 2011 7:35:27 PST > To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)"
> <Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov> > Subject: White House
> Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
> PM > > Dear Disability Community, > >  > > In
> order to help keep you more informed, the White
> House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls
> to update you on various disability issues as
> well as to introduce you to persons who work on
> disability issues in the federal
> government. > >  > > This call is off the record
> and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and
> ask that you distribute this email broadly to
> your networks and list serves so that anyone who
> wants to participate can do so. > >  > > Our next
> call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM
> Eastern. > >  > > The conference call information
> is below. > >  > > Dial in: (800) 230-1093 > >
> Title: Disability Call (use instead of code) > >
> Date of Call: 01/10/2011 > > Start Time: 3:00 PM
> Eastern > > For live captioning, at time of call,
> log onto: > >
> http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321
> <http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>
>  > >  > >  > > Again, please distribute
> widely. > >  > > The White House · 1600
> Pennsylvania Avenue, NW · Washington DC 20500 · 202-456-1111 > >  > >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 01:45:46 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 20:45:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft project
Message-ID: <4D227BCA.9020105@gmail.com>

Hi

Is microsoft project 2007 and 2010 accessible at all with NVDA or Jaws? 
I use NVDA as my primary screen reader. Here are my courses for the next 
quarter and book lists. capella university.
IT3200 Enterprise Architecture 6 quarter credits
Learners in this course study how core business processes and 
information technology infrastructure merge to form enterprise 
architecture. Learners conduct an organizational requirements analysis 
as a first step in constructing an enterprise architecture. Learners 
also examine the stages of enterprise architecture maturity and develop 
core designs appropriate for each corresponding maturity level.
Book:
Enterprise Architecture as Strategy : Creating a Foundation for Business 
Execution
Required • Edition: 2006 • Ross, Jeanne W.
ISBN: 9781591398394
List Price: $39.95
IT3120 Fundamentals of Project Management 6 quarter credits
This course emphasizes the critical activities associated with managing 
and leading information technology projects while maintaining the 
structure of a standardized enterprise architecture. Topics include 
vendor management, configuration management, project estimation, risk 
management, and management of cross-functional and multinational teams. 
Learners explore case studies of IT project successes and failures and 
are introduced to software management practices within the Software 
Engineering Institute’s Capability Maturity Model. Learners also build 
and apply a project plan during this course.
Books:
Information Technology Project Management - With CD
Required • Edition: 6TH 10 • Schwalbe, Kathy
ISBN: 9780324786927
List Price: $93.50
Microsoft Office Project 2007 : Step by Step- With CD
Required • Edition: 2007 • Chatfield, Carl
ISBN: 9780735623057
List Price: $29.99
Microsoft Project 2010 Step-by Step
Required • Edition: 2010 • Chatfield, Carl
ISBN: 9780735626959
List Price: $29.99


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Jan  4 02:52:03 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 18:52:03 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and Psychology
Message-ID: <E925C933B12343A185A323C98A5ADA31@stanford.edu>

    This quarter, I am taking a psychology course. In the book, it talks about imagery in the brain. Does anyone know of a resource that talks about the affect that blindness can have on this function of the brain?

Thanks,
Nicole

From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Tue Jan  4 12:26:28 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:26:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
 3:00 PM
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikuacg=Qn4z-i0k918jqmWbdp=WLDqwzhzj8WdW@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000184700993@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<AANLkTikuacg=Qn4z-i0k918jqmWbdp=WLDqwzhzj8WdW@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29CD3139000B422AB6CC4978FCEFCED1@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hey,
Sorry if you have been asswered by Mike, but the number is provieded in the 
email. I, too, had truble finding it at first, but the number is immediately 
after the sentence, but still on the same line, that reads "The conference 
call-in information is as follows" or words to that effect.
I will also paste the number from the email here.
"Dial in: (800) 230-1093"
If this msg didn't come from someone who is a frequenter on this list, I 
might have taken it for a scam. There is just something about the way it is 
worded. Mike, did you get it from a real contact, meaning someone in the 
whitehouse, or did you get it from somewhere else? Just curious, and I may 
be wrong. I don't know why I get that feeling, but it just doesn't seem to 
have a genuine feel to it. Maybe it is because it is "off the record", but 
it is asking to be widely distributed. That seems contradictory. I'm not 
sure. If it is genuine, I apologize in advance for my doubting it. Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Courtney Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 
3:00 PM


Mike,

Did any subsequent messages give the dial-in info?  I know there's
that website where you can get captioning, and I'm not sure if the
call will be streamed from there, or if there's some info we're
missing.
Courtney

On 1/3/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Outreach ,
> Disability (CRT)"
> <Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov> > Date: January
> 3, 2011 7:35:27 PST > To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)"
> <Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov> > Subject: White House
> Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
> PM > > Dear Disability Community, > >  > > In
> order to help keep you more informed, the White
> House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls
> to update you on various disability issues as
> well as to introduce you to persons who work on
> disability issues in the federal
> government. > >  > > This call is off the record
> and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and
> ask that you distribute this email broadly to
> your networks and list serves so that anyone who
> wants to participate can do so. > >  > > Our next
> call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM
> Eastern. > >  > > The conference call information
> is below. > >  > > Dial in: (800) 230-1093 > >
> Title: Disability Call (use instead of code) > >
> Date of Call: 01/10/2011 > > Start Time: 3:00 PM
> Eastern > > For live captioning, at time of call,
> log onto: > >
> http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321
> <http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>
>  > >  > >  > > Again, please distribute
> widely. > >  > > The White House · 1600
> Pennsylvania Avenue, NW · Washington DC 20500 · 202-456-1111 > >  > >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 




From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan  4 14:12:41 2011
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 06:12:41 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
Message-ID: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>

Hello Everyone,
I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really appreciate it.  
Warmest regards,
Dennis

From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 14:34:46 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 06:34:46 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
In-Reply-To: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
References: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik_CFYhfYcTUur8RuidDmSNWBrGZLUg62fmCFsb@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Dennis,
  The first book that comes to mind is "walking alone and  marching
together"  by Floyde W. Matson. I found it to be rather informitive if
you want a solid dose of history- that will certainly give
yousomething to read.  The book

On 1/4/11, Dennis Clark <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which
> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a
> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I
> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot
> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare
> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I might
> be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the history
> of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really appreciate it.
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 14:36:59 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 06:36:59 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik_CFYhfYcTUur8RuidDmSNWBrGZLUg62fmCFsb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
	<AANLkTik_CFYhfYcTUur8RuidDmSNWBrGZLUg62fmCFsb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikGrSuM9rxWcisCDW0CBOc5L-Y5tqHp7yEqBSKS@mail.gmail.com>

... the book covers the history of the organized blindness  movement
from  1940,  to 1990.
 Hope that is helpful.
   Darian

On 1/4/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings Dennis,
>   The first book that comes to mind is "walking alone and  marching
> together"  by Floyde W. Matson. I found it to be rather informitive if
> you want a solid dose of history- that will certainly give
> yousomething to read.  The book
>
> On 1/4/11, Dennis Clark <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which
>> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a
>> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).
>> I
>> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot
>> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare
>> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I
>> might
>> be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the
>> history
>> of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really appreciate
>> it.
>> Warmest regards,
>> Dennis
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
>
> “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
> spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Tue Jan  4 14:40:13 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:40:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
In-Reply-To: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
References: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <66B52E38C4324C2B8715C2F01BF7FDEF@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hello,

First, let me apologize to this list about my mistakes in the previous 
email. I usually proofread before I send an email, but of course, this time 
when it would matter, I failed to do that.

The book you mention is by a major contributor to the cause of the NFB, and 
I imagine if it is available, it is probably in their library, also, I 
believe,  named after him, and so you may call and speak with someone at the 
NFB store about this publication because if it is available for purchase or 
otherwise, they will know it. Also, the NFB has other publications related 
to blindness that you may find interesting. The contact info for them is 
below.
The phone number for questions or concerns is 410-659-9314, ext. 2216
the book section of the Independence Market at the NFB address is:
http://secure.nfb.org/ecommerce/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=57

Anita
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:12 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history


> Hello Everyone,
> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which 
> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a 
> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I 
> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot 
> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare 
> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I 
> might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the 
> history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really 
> appreciate it.
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 14:22:46 2011
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 09:22:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
In-Reply-To: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
References: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <CB04C6FDE24D48B0A9DD11693FFFD96F@AnjelinaPC>

The library for the Blind has lots of books about the history of blindness 
and other disabilities.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:12 AM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history

> Hello Everyone,
> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which 
> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a 
> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I 
> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot 
> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare 
> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I 
> might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the 
> history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really 
> appreciate it.
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>

Anjelina 



From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  4 15:48:42 2011
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 09:48:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
References: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <966E9154D08D43BD8D3B11AECAED3A05@D3DTZP41>

Hello Dennis:

     I suggest starting with Dr. Jernigan's banquet speech Is History 
Against Us. The year is either 1973 or 1974. The text of the speech lists 
some books in the endnotes. RFB&D has Wilson's History of the Blind edited 
by Ken Stuckey. This is an odd sort of book, but interesting nevertheless. 
Beauties and Achievements of the Blind by Artman and Hall is another early 
reference. Not sure if this book is in accessible form. There is a list for 
blindness history, nfb-history on nfbnet.

     The ACB has a book, I think its called People of Vision. Haven't read 
it, so don't know much about it except that it is very large. Hope this 
helps.

Regards,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 8:12 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history


> Hello Everyone,
> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which 
> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a 
> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I 
> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot 
> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare 
> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I 
> might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the 
> history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really 
> appreciate it.
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net 



From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan  4 16:11:37 2011
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 08:11:37 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
References: <02de01cbac19$73ba2510$6601a8c0@server>
	<AANLkTik_CFYhfYcTUur8RuidDmSNWBrGZLUg62fmCFsb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <02fc01cbac2a$11602a70$6601a8c0@server>

Hello Darian,
I appreciate the lead and I will get a copy of the book.  It sounds 
interesting.  Thanks for your help.
All the best,
Dennis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darian Smith" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books on blind history


Greetings Dennis,
  The first book that comes to mind is "walking alone and  marching
together"  by Floyde W. Matson. I found it to be rather informitive if
you want a solid dose of history- that will certainly give
yousomething to read.  The book

On 1/4/11, Dennis Clark <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which
> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a
> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I
> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot
> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare
> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I 
> might
> be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the 
> history
> of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really appreciate 
> it.
> Warmest regards,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net 



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 17:50:05 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:50:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland
Message-ID: <4D235DCD.6070201@gmail.com>

Hi

Are there lots of blind people who have jobs living in Baltimore 
Maryland? Once I get my bachelors degree from capella university I would 
like to try and find a job there and move there. There are no jobs in 
the information technology field here in Berks County in the city of 
Reading Pennsylvania Berks county Pennsylvania unfortunately. I will 
have to move if I want work. I would like to live in a place where I 
could take a bus or train and go to the beach frequently in the summer. 
Also Baltimore has an aquarium with dolphins. I never saw dolphins 
before, was interested in what they are like since I was little. I'm now 
28 years old. Plus Baltimore has inner harbor and its a fairly big city. 
Much bigger than Reading PA. My wife bought me a kapten gps for 
christmas. I already have a trekker breeze and we're short or I'm short 
on money this month so I'll send the kapten back, get money back for it 
and use that money to pay for my college textbooks. The trekker breeze 
works fine for me. its a tough little deice like the nls player is made 
to last so is the breeze. Humanware did a good job with its construction.


Josh


From th404 at comcast.net  Tue Jan  4 18:26:57 2011
From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:26:57 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
Message-ID: <26DA0487EB5942C280D65B558931A506@userbafffee1fc>

You probably know that during the past quarter, I have been taking an environmental science course at my local community college for a General Studies degree. I'm in the second course in the series, and there are a number of labs coming up that either use chemicals, or are heavily dependent on measurements. I don't know if the lists accept attachments, but I felt the best way to give people an idea of what these labs are like is to send the information about them that I've gotten from my instructor. The instructor and I are not sure how to deal with these labs, but I figured that if you got a look at them, you could give me some ideas on how I might be able to participate and not just sit on the sidelines. So if you have any ideas on how I might deal with these labs, I'm all ears. Thanks.
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From kat.bottner at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 18:28:28 2011
From: kat.bottner at gmail.com (Kat Bottner)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 13:28:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland
In-Reply-To: <4D235DCD.6070201@gmail.com>
References: <4D235DCD.6070201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimhOz5qdGOfZ_q+h4yck7EcE9L2UKnj-P2fy+mQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Josh,
I've been back and forth to Baltimore from Delaware and like you, want
to move there at some point.  I've noticed that paratransit is better,
and yes they do have busses and just a better over all transportation
system.  I want to work at the Maryland School for the Blind as a
teachers's assistant, I passed the national certified test for the
state of Maryland.  I was three points off the needed score for
Delaware, but we don't have a school for the blind here, only a school
for the deaf, that does have a deaf-blind program , but it's not the
same as working in a school for the blind.
I'm very intrested in what Maryland has to offer the blind community,
I dont' think I've ever said I dont like something I've heard about
their services etc.  I have friends there, and they tell me nothing
but totally awesome things about the over all services, transportation
and any other general programs that people with disabilities can take
advantage of.
Another plus is that the NFB headquarters is in Baltimore as well, so
again, that's a reason for me to relocate at some point.  I hope all
this information helps, if you have any other question, feel free to e
mail me off list.

Thanks and take care,
Kat

On 1/4/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Are there lots of blind people who have jobs living in Baltimore
> Maryland? Once I get my bachelors degree from capella university I would
> like to try and find a job there and move there. There are no jobs in
> the information technology field here in Berks County in the city of
> Reading Pennsylvania Berks county Pennsylvania unfortunately. I will
> have to move if I want work. I would like to live in a place where I
> could take a bus or train and go to the beach frequently in the summer.
> Also Baltimore has an aquarium with dolphins. I never saw dolphins
> before, was interested in what they are like since I was little. I'm now
> 28 years old. Plus Baltimore has inner harbor and its a fairly big city.
> Much bigger than Reading PA. My wife bought me a kapten gps for
> christmas. I already have a trekker breeze and we're short or I'm short
> on money this month so I'll send the kapten back, get money back for it
> and use that money to pay for my college textbooks. The trekker breeze
> works fine for me. its a tough little deice like the nls player is made
> to last so is the breeze. Humanware did a good job with its construction.
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottner%40gmail.com
>


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Tue Jan  4 18:32:06 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:32:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
In-Reply-To: <66B52E38C4324C2B8715C2F01BF7FDEF@AnitaAdkinsPC>
Message-ID: <auto-000023831175@mailback2.g2host.com>

Dr. Jernigan gave an interesting banquet address called "Blindness, Is History Against Us" perhaps from 1973 or so which notes that blind people have 
been more a part of history than commonly believed.  He covers a few who were quite well-known but are not commonly heard of today.  You might find that 
interesting.  The text can be found at 

http://nfb.org/legacy/fr/fr1/fr92fl17.htm

I found this to be very interesting when I read it for the first time many years ago, but I ended up almost reading the whole thing now while looking for it.

When doing a search on NFB.ORG, I did not find the text of "Hope Deferred," but there are a number of references to it.  I did find a PDF version within 
GoogleBooks for $5 but don't know about the accessibility.  This may still be copyrighted.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:40:13 -0500, Anita Adkins wrote:

>Hello,

>First, let me apologize to this list about my mistakes in the previous 
>email. I usually proofread before I send an email, but of course, this time 
>when it would matter, I failed to do that.

>The book you mention is by a major contributor to the cause of the NFB, and 
>I imagine if it is available, it is probably in their library, also, I 
>believe,  named after him, and so you may call and speak with someone at the 
>NFB store about this publication because if it is available for purchase or 
>otherwise, they will know it. Also, the NFB has other publications related 
>to blindness that you may find interesting. The contact info for them is 
>below.
>The phone number for questions or concerns is 410-659-9314, ext. 2216
>the book section of the Independence Market at the NFB address is:
>http://secure.nfb.org/ecommerce/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=57

>Anita
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:12 AM
>Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history


>> Hello Everyone,
>> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which 
>> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a 
>> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I 
>> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot 
>> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare 
>> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I 
>> might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the 
>> history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really 
>> appreciate it.
>> Warmest regards,
>> Dennis
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 19:45:36 2011
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:45:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness and Psychology
In-Reply-To: <E925C933B12343A185A323C98A5ADA31@stanford.edu>
References: <E925C933B12343A185A323C98A5ADA31@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinofr5_dzq=W7ctz9zWJ-FSyU72Y3uuM3bE4F3T@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nicole,
This is an extremely interesting topic, and I know there is some
literature out there on it. I would suggest that you use your college
databases, and research that question. I would start with PsychInfo
and branch off from there. The sage journal has the latest in psych
research usually. So if your on campus on the school network just do a
google scholar search and see  what you find.
I'll probably go ahead and look around myself too. But let us know
what kind of stuff you find.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 1/3/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>     This quarter, I am taking a psychology course. In the book, it talks
> about imagery in the brain. Does anyone know of a resource that talks about
> the affect that blindness can have on this function of the brain?
>
> Thanks,
> Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Tue Jan  4 19:50:08 2011
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 14:50:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
References: <26DA0487EB5942C280D65B558931A506@userbafffee1fc>
Message-ID: <001001cbac48$990c3d10$9560c747@BRIAN>

Why would you need this type of class for just a general studdies degree? 
It baffles me?  At scols like my almardara Point Park University in 
Pittsburgh PA all you had to take was one general science class that was 
based only on reading and lecture notes.  I received an A. in that course! 
The instructor made the course fun and interesting!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tina Hansen" <th404 at comcast.net>
To: <nfb-science at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 1:26 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up


> You probably know that during the past quarter, I have been taking an 
> environmental science course at my local community college for a General 
> Studies degree. I'm in the second course in the series, and there are a 
> number of labs coming up that either use chemicals, or are heavily 
> dependent on measurements. I don't know if the lists accept attachments, 
> but I felt the best way to give people an idea of what these labs are like 
> is to send the information about them that I've gotten from my instructor. 
> The instructor and I are not sure how to deal with these labs, but I 
> figured that if you got a look at them, you could give me some ideas on 
> how I might be able to participate and not just sit on the sidelines. So 
> if you have any ideas on how I might deal with these labs, I'm all ears. 
> Thanks.
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
> 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Jan  4 19:51:53 2011
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:51:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
References: <auto-000023831175@mailback2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <41AF5421452C4E6CB186F0AC1947ADB2@labarre>

I apologize if this suggestion has been made already but I haven't been able 
to review all the posts.  You should contact our Jacobus tenBroek Library 
and ask the library staff to give you research leads.  They may also be able 
to tell you how to get an accessible version of Hope Defered etc.  Call 410 
659-9314 and ask for the tenBroek Library.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, 
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books on blind history


> Dr. Jernigan gave an interesting banquet address called "Blindness, Is 
> History Against Us" perhaps from 1973 or so which notes that blind people 
> have
> been more a part of history than commonly believed.  He covers a few who 
> were quite well-known but are not commonly heard of today.  You might find 
> that
> interesting.  The text can be found at
>
> http://nfb.org/legacy/fr/fr1/fr92fl17.htm
>
> I found this to be very interesting when I read it for the first time many 
> years ago, but I ended up almost reading the whole thing now while looking 
> for it.
>
> When doing a search on NFB.ORG, I did not find the text of "Hope 
> Deferred," but there are a number of references to it.  I did find a PDF 
> version within
> GoogleBooks for $5 but don't know about the accessibility.  This may still 
> be copyrighted.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:40:13 -0500, Anita Adkins wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>
>>First, let me apologize to this list about my mistakes in the previous
>>email. I usually proofread before I send an email, but of course, this 
>>time
>>when it would matter, I failed to do that.
>
>>The book you mention is by a major contributor to the cause of the NFB, 
>>and
>>I imagine if it is available, it is probably in their library, also, I
>>believe,  named after him, and so you may call and speak with someone at 
>>the
>>NFB store about this publication because if it is available for purchase 
>>or
>>otherwise, they will know it. Also, the NFB has other publications related
>>to blindness that you may find interesting. The contact info for them is
>>below.
>>The phone number for questions or concerns is 410-659-9314, ext. 2216
>>the book section of the Independence Market at the NFB address is:
>>http://secure.nfb.org/ecommerce/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=57
>
>>Anita
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:12 AM
>>Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
>
>
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness 
>>> which
>>> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a
>>> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled). 
>>> I
>>> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a 
>>> lot
>>> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on 
>>> Bookshare
>>> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I
>>> might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about 
>>> the
>>> history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really
>>> appreciate it.
>>> Warmest regards,
>>> Dennis
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
> 




From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Tue Jan  4 20:39:32 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 14:39:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
In-Reply-To: <26DA0487EB5942C280D65B558931A506@userbafffee1fc>
Message-ID: <auto-000023832923@mailback2.g2host.com>

Tina,

There are a lot of considerations in figuring out how you deal with this.  Let me start by saying that when I was in school, I took a general physics class 
because it was an area I wanted to learn.  The instructor was not happy and he did not want me to take the class at all, let alone the lab.  My compromise 
was to take the class without the lab and receive one less credit.  After taking the class, which was near the beginning of my college experience, I learned 
about other blind people who took similar labs.  Since I took the class because I wanted to learn the subject, I have always regretted the fact that I didn't 
take the lab.  I also saw students strike up friendships in the less formal settings of a lab.  I say all this to contrast my response with one other response to 
your note that wondered why you have to do all this when he didn't.  Probably the first thing you need to determine iswhether you want to get in there and 
experience what the other students are experiencing, or whether you just want to meet a requirement.

When I read the materials, it seems that there are a lot of things you will be able to observe.  The rings in a tree won't be as expressive to you in terms of the 
information they convey, but you will likely be able to feel them, and probably even judge relative thicknesses with your fingernail, and while I'm no gardener, 
I know from firsthand experience that you will be able to tell a good deal about the differences in soil by feeling it.  This sounds like a set of courses where 
the labs contribute a lot to what is learned, and if your instructor has taken this time to discuss your participation with you, I have to think this is a good sign.

Here are a couple of things that occur to me.  It appears that some of your activities occur in a group.  Understanding which activities are in groups might be 
important.  One thing that sometimes works if you are in a group or a team is that you might be a good person to be the taker of notes.  I don't mean you 
wouldn't do anything else, but some of the functions you can't easily do could be done by other members, but you can still feel you are pulling your weight by 
doing something that many others will not want to do.  Maybe you are less squeamish than some.  I know a blind person who won a lot of points with her 
biology lab partner because the blind person didn't mind coming into contact with the white rats they were observing.  Her partner couldn't handle that part 
of their lab and was glad to handle some of the other things that the blind person had some difficulty in handling.  How are you with earthworms, for 
example?  <smile>

If a lot of these labs do not involve groups or teams, having someone work with you on some of this as a reader is also an option.  If you were to advertise in 
your clas that another student could earn a little something extra working with you while being able to get their own work done might work.  If the college 
has a DSS office, they may know of people who do reading who may have a particular interest.  In the old days, before DSS offices, advertising within the 
class itself or on bulletin boards did work pretty well, if the DSS office either can't help or doesn't play that role.

Finally, establishing with the instructor what it is that he or she wants you to get out of this experience is important.  The instructor may not be concerned if 
you dot every "I" and cross every "T" if the instructor feels that you are making a serious effort to do what you can and that you are indeed sharing the 
experience and learning the basics.  Especially when students work in teams, the experience is never exactly the same for every student.  This will depend 
upon the flexibility of the instructor, and I know that some might not be all that helpful, but it is likely that many would be.  Make sure the instructor knows 
you are honestly curious.  Anyone present can tell you what color occurs when a chemical is poured on the soil, physically seeing that color isn't important 
unless you are going to make a career of this, and then there really are some options.  You would, in that case, talk with Mr. Supalo, the blind guy who has 
worked with others to develop audible instruments for measuring colors resulting from chemical reactions.  But you might also wonder if there is a sound to 
the reaction.  You might let the instructor know that you are curious about what you can determine by feeling the slice of the tree's rings that are displayed 
from a core.  There might even be some alternate experiments that you might be able to do to bring home some of the same points if it is important to you 
and the instructor.  The instructor would have to guide you on this because I'm just an old math major, but it occurs to me that observing soil that is wet and 
then observing it after it has dried for a day might yield some information about the makeup of the soil, maybe different information, but perhaps useful 
information.  

As you can probably tell, I hate to see blind people left out of experiences like this even if one can't learn every single thing in the same way as we would 
with sight.  I hope that there might be some ideas here that help.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:26:57 -0800, Tina Hansen wrote:

>You probably know that during the past quarter, I have been taking an environmental science course at my local community college for a General Studies 
degree. I'm in the second course in the series, and there are a number of labs coming up that either use chemicals, or are heavily dependent on 
measurements. I don't know if the lists accept attachments, but I felt the best way to give people an idea of what these labs are like is to send the 
information about them that I've gotten from my instructor. The instructor and I are not sure how to deal with these labs, but I figured that if you got a look at 
them, you could give me some ideas on how I might be able to participate and not just sit on the sidelines. So if you have any ideas on how I might deal with 
these labs, I'm all ears. Thanks.





From liamskitten at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 20:59:50 2011
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:59:50 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
 3:00 PM
In-Reply-To: <29CD3139000B422AB6CC4978FCEFCED1@AnitaAdkinsPC>
References: <auto-000184700993@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<AANLkTikuacg=Qn4z-i0k918jqmWbdp=WLDqwzhzj8WdW@mail.gmail.com>
	<29CD3139000B422AB6CC4978FCEFCED1@AnitaAdkinsPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=X8G9WZchbCGbm7NAvNGhpXciaWwYvMJUna9e3@mail.gmail.com>

Anita,

Thanks for pasting the info in.
Courtney

On 1/4/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey,
> Sorry if you have been asswered by Mike, but the number is provieded in the
> email. I, too, had truble finding it at first, but the number is immediately
> after the sentence, but still on the same line, that reads "The conference
> call-in information is as follows" or words to that effect.
> I will also paste the number from the email here.
> "Dial in: (800) 230-1093"
> If this msg didn't come from someone who is a frequenter on this list, I
> might have taken it for a scam. There is just something about the way it is
> worded. Mike, did you get it from a real contact, meaning someone in the
> whitehouse, or did you get it from somewhere else? Just curious, and I may
> be wrong. I don't know why I get that feeling, but it just doesn't seem to
> have a genuine feel to it. Maybe it is because it is "off the record", but
> it is asking to be widely distributed. That seems contradictory. I'm not
> sure. If it is genuine, I apologize in advance for my doubting it. Anita
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Courtney Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
> 3:00 PM
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Did any subsequent messages give the dial-in info?  I know there's
> that website where you can get captioning, and I'm not sure if the
> call will be streamed from there, or if there's some info we're
> missing.
> Courtney
>
> On 1/3/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Outreach ,
>> Disability (CRT)"
>> <Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov> > Date: January
>> 3, 2011 7:35:27 PST > To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)"
>> <Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov> > Subject: White House
>> Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
>> PM > > Dear Disability Community, > >  > > In
>> order to help keep you more informed, the White
>> House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls
>> to update you on various disability issues as
>> well as to introduce you to persons who work on
>> disability issues in the federal
>> government. > >  > > This call is off the record
>> and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and
>> ask that you distribute this email broadly to
>> your networks and list serves so that anyone who
>> wants to participate can do so. > >  > > Our next
>> call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM
>> Eastern. > >  > > The conference call information
>> is below. > >  > > Dial in: (800) 230-1093 > >
>> Title: Disability Call (use instead of code) > >
>> Date of Call: 01/10/2011 > > Start Time: 3:00 PM
>> Eastern > > For live captioning, at time of call,
>> log onto: > >
>> http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321
>> <http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>
>>  > >  > >  > > Again, please distribute
>> widely. > >  > > The White House · 1600
>> Pennsylvania Avenue, NW · Washington DC 20500 · 202-456-1111 > >  > >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Tue Jan  4 21:36:22 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:36:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
 3:00 PM
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=X8G9WZchbCGbm7NAvNGhpXciaWwYvMJUna9e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000184700993@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<AANLkTikuacg=Qn4z-i0k918jqmWbdp=WLDqwzhzj8WdW@mail.gmail.com>
	<29CD3139000B422AB6CC4978FCEFCED1@AnitaAdkinsPC>
	<AANLkTi=X8G9WZchbCGbm7NAvNGhpXciaWwYvMJUna9e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F18409057E4143F195EBAC5EC3BFD291@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hi,

You are welcome. Also, as for my comments, I did a bit of research and found 
that that number is the whitehouse's comments number, meaning it is most 
likely not spam or anything like that, for which I am thankful. Have a great 
day. Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Courtney Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 
3:00 PM


Anita,

Thanks for pasting the info in.
Courtney

On 1/4/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey,
> Sorry if you have been asswered by Mike, but the number is provieded in 
> the
> email. I, too, had truble finding it at first, but the number is 
> immediately
> after the sentence, but still on the same line, that reads "The conference
> call-in information is as follows" or words to that effect.
> I will also paste the number from the email here.
> "Dial in: (800) 230-1093"
> If this msg didn't come from someone who is a frequenter on this list, I
> might have taken it for a scam. There is just something about the way it 
> is
> worded. Mike, did you get it from a real contact, meaning someone in the
> whitehouse, or did you get it from somewhere else? Just curious, and I may
> be wrong. I don't know why I get that feeling, but it just doesn't seem to
> have a genuine feel to it. Maybe it is because it is "off the record", but
> it is asking to be widely distributed. That seems contradictory. I'm not
> sure. If it is genuine, I apologize in advance for my doubting it. Anita
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Courtney Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
> 3:00 PM
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Did any subsequent messages give the dial-in info?  I know there's
> that website where you can get captioning, and I'm not sure if the
> call will be streamed from there, or if there's some info we're
> missing.
> Courtney
>
> On 1/3/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Outreach ,
>> Disability (CRT)"
>> <Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov> > Date: January
>> 3, 2011 7:35:27 PST > To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)"
>> <Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov> > Subject: White House
>> Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
>> PM > > Dear Disability Community, > >  > > In
>> order to help keep you more informed, the White
>> House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls
>> to update you on various disability issues as
>> well as to introduce you to persons who work on
>> disability issues in the federal
>> government. > >  > > This call is off the record
>> and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and
>> ask that you distribute this email broadly to
>> your networks and list serves so that anyone who
>> wants to participate can do so. > >  > > Our next
>> call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM
>> Eastern. > >  > > The conference call information
>> is below. > >  > > Dial in: (800) 230-1093 > >
>> Title: Disability Call (use instead of code) > >
>> Date of Call: 01/10/2011 > > Start Time: 3:00 PM
>> Eastern > > For live captioning, at time of call,
>> log onto: > >
>> http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321
>> <http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>
>>  > >  > >  > > Again, please distribute
>> widely. > >  > > The White House · 1600
>> Pennsylvania Avenue, NW · Washington DC 20500 · 202-456-1111 > >  > >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 




From nabs.president at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 23:59:36 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:59:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
In-Reply-To: <auto-000023832923@mailback2.g2host.com>
References: <26DA0487EB5942C280D65B558931A506@userbafffee1fc>
	<auto-000023832923@mailback2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinAP-0e_yCvWaDmqWERfRLd-r0YsHyg6dvtbiyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tina,

I would second everything Steve said. Also, if you are strong in math,
you could offer to be  the one in charge of calculations for your
group, as well as note-taking.

Also, if you have labs that require you to draw and label diagrams, I
think writing up a verbal description of the organisms/environments
you are working with is acceptable.

Arielle

On 1/4/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Tina,
>
> There are a lot of considerations in figuring out how you deal with this.
> Let me start by saying that when I was in school, I took a general physics
> class
> because it was an area I wanted to learn.  The instructor was not happy and
> he did not want me to take the class at all, let alone the lab.  My
> compromise
> was to take the class without the lab and receive one less credit.  After
> taking the class, which was near the beginning of my college experience, I
> learned
> about other blind people who took similar labs.  Since I took the class
> because I wanted to learn the subject, I have always regretted the fact that
> I didn't
> take the lab.  I also saw students strike up friendships in the less formal
> settings of a lab.  I say all this to contrast my response with one other
> response to
> your note that wondered why you have to do all this when he didn't.
> Probably the first thing you need to determine iswhether you want to get in
> there and
> experience what the other students are experiencing, or whether you just
> want to meet a requirement.
>
> When I read the materials, it seems that there are a lot of things you will
> be able to observe.  The rings in a tree won't be as expressive to you in
> terms of the
> information they convey, but you will likely be able to feel them, and
> probably even judge relative thicknesses with your fingernail, and while I'm
> no gardener,
> I know from firsthand experience that you will be able to tell a good deal
> about the differences in soil by feeling it.  This sounds like a set of
> courses where
> the labs contribute a lot to what is learned, and if your instructor has
> taken this time to discuss your participation with you, I have to think this
> is a good sign.
>
> Here are a couple of things that occur to me.  It appears that some of your
> activities occur in a group.  Understanding which activities are in groups
> might be
> important.  One thing that sometimes works if you are in a group or a team
> is that you might be a good person to be the taker of notes.  I don't mean
> you
> wouldn't do anything else, but some of the functions you can't easily do
> could be done by other members, but you can still feel you are pulling your
> weight by
> doing something that many others will not want to do.  Maybe you are less
> squeamish than some.  I know a blind person who won a lot of points with her
> biology lab partner because the blind person didn't mind coming into contact
> with the white rats they were observing.  Her partner couldn't handle that
> part
> of their lab and was glad to handle some of the other things that the blind
> person had some difficulty in handling.  How are you with earthworms, for
> example?  <smile>
>
> If a lot of these labs do not involve groups or teams, having someone work
> with you on some of this as a reader is also an option.  If you were to
> advertise in
> your clas that another student could earn a little something extra working
> with you while being able to get their own work done might work.  If the
> college
> has a DSS office, they may know of people who do reading who may have a
> particular interest.  In the old days, before DSS offices, advertising
> within the
> class itself or on bulletin boards did work pretty well, if the DSS office
> either can't help or doesn't play that role.
>
> Finally, establishing with the instructor what it is that he or she wants
> you to get out of this experience is important.  The instructor may not be
> concerned if
> you dot every "I" and cross every "T" if the instructor feels that you are
> making a serious effort to do what you can and that you are indeed sharing
> the
> experience and learning the basics.  Especially when students work in teams,
> the experience is never exactly the same for every student.  This will
> depend
> upon the flexibility of the instructor, and I know that some might not be
> all that helpful, but it is likely that many would be.  Make sure the
> instructor knows
> you are honestly curious.  Anyone present can tell you what color occurs
> when a chemical is poured on the soil, physically seeing that color isn't
> important
> unless you are going to make a career of this, and then there really are
> some options.  You would, in that case, talk with Mr. Supalo, the blind guy
> who has
> worked with others to develop audible instruments for measuring colors
> resulting from chemical reactions.  But you might also wonder if there is a
> sound to
> the reaction.  You might let the instructor know that you are curious about
> what you can determine by feeling the slice of the tree's rings that are
> displayed
> from a core.  There might even be some alternate experiments that you might
> be able to do to bring home some of the same points if it is important to
> you
> and the instructor.  The instructor would have to guide you on this because
> I'm just an old math major, but it occurs to me that observing soil that is
> wet and
> then observing it after it has dried for a day might yield some information
> about the makeup of the soil, maybe different information, but perhaps
> useful
> information.
>
> As you can probably tell, I hate to see blind people left out of experiences
> like this even if one can't learn every single thing in the same way as we
> would
> with sight.  I hope that there might be some ideas here that help.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:26:57 -0800, Tina Hansen wrote:
>
>>You probably know that during the past quarter, I have been taking an
>> environmental science course at my local community college for a General
>> Studies
> degree. I'm in the second course in the series, and there are a number of
> labs coming up that either use chemicals, or are heavily dependent on
> measurements. I don't know if the lists accept attachments, but I felt the
> best way to give people an idea of what these labs are like is to send the
> information about them that I've gotten from my instructor. The instructor
> and I are not sure how to deal with these labs, but I figured that if you
> got a look at
> them, you could give me some ideas on how I might be able to participate and
> not just sit on the sidelines. So if you have any ideas on how I might deal
> with
> these labs, I'm all ears. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 00:11:53 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 17:11:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS State Division Contact Info
Message-ID: <AANLkTikwrjfBWYx9_nMzaoNEd1Z+N5HUR4z5_5oe_m7G@mail.gmail.com>

Hello students,

As Washington Seminar approaches we are making a big push to ensure
that our contact list for all the NABS state student divisions is as
up-to-date as possible. To help us with this effort I would like to
request the following:

-- If you are serving as president of a state student division at this
time, please send me an email at
nabs.president at gmail.com
with your current phone number and email address. Please do this even
if you have been president for several years, just so we can be sure
your contact info is accurate.
-- If your state doesn't have a formal student division yet but you
are involved with efforts to organize one, and would like to be listed
on the NABS website as a contact for blind students in your state,
please email me your contact info.
-- Just as an early heads-up, our Washington Seminar meeting this year
will once again include the presidents' lunch. We would like to have
one representative from each state attend this meeting, even if there
is no formal division in your state. This is a good opportunity to
chat with the NABS board and other division leaders about any
questions or concerns you may have, and to exchange ideas. Also, for
the first time we will be having a breakout session dedicated to
division development issues. All are welcome to attend, even if you
are not a state division president or contact.

Thanks for your assistance, and see you in Washington!


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 00:21:17 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 17:21:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Bulletin Announcements
Message-ID: <AANLkTiktdoyjkFGVLacPdOhjjAuNHutq9FrkhbdhfNOC@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

Another NABS bulletin will be coming out soon! If you have any
announcements you would like to make before Washington Seminar, please
send them to me by the end of the week. Thanks!
Arielle

-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From gkearney at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 01:00:12 2011
From: gkearney at gmail.com (Greg Kearney)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:00:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Procedure for writing Words,
 Music and Plain-song using dots  (1829) in DAISY format
Message-ID: <auto-000184924819@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Procedure for writing Words, Music and Plain-song using dots D7769 
Louis Braille's 1829 book setting out the Braille code can now be 
downloaded from our library system. As this title is in the public 
domain no library login is required.

This is a full text full audio DAISY digital talking book which 
includes photographs of the original 1829 raised type book along with 
explanatory production notes and the original footnotes. Navigation 
is by section at the first navigation level as well as by the 
original first edition page numbers.

The URL to the download link is as follows:

http://www.guidedogswa.org/library/openbiblio/shared/biblio_view.php?bibid=107755&tab=opac





Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100
Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
Email: greg.kearney at guidedogswa.com.au
Email: gkearney at gmail.com


_______________________________________________
Dtb-talk mailing list
Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Dtb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
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From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Wed Jan  5 04:00:31 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:00:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
Message-ID: <rg001f0032PutTY05g0FQs@netzero.net>

Hello,

Is anybody familiar with Adobe In design? Is this software 
accessible with screen readers like JAWS, NVDA, or some other? If 
so, how accessible? Also, is this free?
Does anyone use this program? I've heard that this program is 
used for publishing newspapers and books, and has anyone done 
such things successfully with In Design?


From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 15:00:56 2011
From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 09:00:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbwnews] FW: [blindlaw] Great Opinion in Enyart v.
	NCBE
Message-ID: <4d2487ac.c9e82a0a.4663.ffff8322@mx.google.com>

:)

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwnews-bounces at nfbwis.org [mailto:nfbwnews-bounces at nfbwis.org] On
Behalf Of Hyde, David W. (ESC)
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:04 AM
To: 'Gorman, Mary M - DHS (Mary.Gorman at dhs.wisconsin.gov)'; 'nfb of
wisconsin (nfbwnews at nfbwis.org)'; 'mabullis at hotmail.com'
Subject: [nfbwnews] FW: [blindlaw] Great Opinion in Enyart v. NCBE

You can read this for yourself, but I'll summarize.
If it stands, and has precedent value this means that:
1. A private testing or regulatory entity cannot determine which
accommodations it will offer, and may not refuse to offer others unless they
can show that doing so would compromise the test or impose an undue
hardship.
2.The accommodations must be fitted to the person, not the person to the
accommodation.
3. Refusal to make specific accommodations can be considered irreparable
damage to the disabled person.

We'll se what happens next, but this is a most interesting ruling, and may
have implications for at least other private entities that produce tests
required for licensure. 

-----Original Message-----
6From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:02 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Great Opinion in Enyart v. NCBE

Friends, we secured a wonderful victory in the Enyart case.  Please find an
accessible pdf attached.  The Panel upheld Judge Breyer's original ruling
that NCBE must provide the requested accommodations of Stephanie Enyart.
Additionally, the 9th Circuit made it clear that the DOJ regulation
requiring that test administraters provide the accommodations that best
insure that a person with a disability to take  the exam on a level playing
field applies.   
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§
2510-2521.
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From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 15:57:48 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:57:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] kurzweil or new docuscanPlus?
Message-ID: <4D2494FC.4060406@gmail.com>

Hi

Depending on your rrequirements you may want to save some money and buy 
docuscanPlus from serotek. just go to www.docuscanplus.com its 
self-voiceing and you can also install the thing on your computer. Oh 
and by the way this friday they'll be taking pre-orders for the 
hover-cam which works with docuscanplus. docuscanplus uses omnipage OCR. 
they'll be adding foreign language recognition to it soon. why use a 
camera to scan books? no debinding the book, hoverCam focuses and 
adjusts for lighting automatically. best of all to scan a book just 
position it under the camera and turn the pages until you're done.

Josh


From jp100 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 19:17:26 2011
From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 11:17:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Live Messenger
Message-ID: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>

Howdy,

 

I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on to
my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and will
do that in a while.

Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read the
messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to me.

 

I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
something's different here.

 

Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
necessary.

Thanks.

Jim

 


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 19:18:29 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 14:18:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in baltimore
Message-ID: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>

Hi

I hope that after I get my degree that I will be able to get a job more 
easily. I'm working on my bachelors in information technology right now. 
I wrote to the nabs-l list about ms-project. nobody responded so I guess 
its really not that accessible so I'm going to have to work with the 
college, capella university online to come up with another way for me to 
take this class or these two classes. I also want to move to baltimore 
because they have an aquarium with dolphins there. I've been interested 
in dolphins since I was little. And I'd like to volunteer there someday 
soon. Actually my son is three years old now but when he turns 18 I want 
to propose to him the idea maybe starting our own aquarium. most 
aquariums have the standard bottlenose dolphin species. but there are 
other smaller species out there that don't get nearly as much attention 
so perhaps midway in my IT career I could find out what it takes to have 
an aquarium and make it profitable by having the less common and smaller 
more safe and sociable dolphin species rather than the common larger 
species which for some reason most aquariums have. Now I have no 
experience whatsoever working with dolphins, but information technology, 
computers, foreign languages and dolphins are my primary interests. I 
would like to have a pet dolphin someday. But you can't have them as 
pets. So the only legal way for me to have pet dolphins would be if I 
owned my own aquarium someday and had all the licenses and stuff. I may 
need sighted help, at least some. so that's where my son and any other 
kids I may have would come in if they're interested when they're older. 
My wife is blind too. Living in baltimore would let her go to bism for 8 
months while still being with her family. I went out to colorado and 
missed 8 or so months of my son's life. My wife really needs to go to a 
good quality training program at some point but before she does I want 
to arrange it so she is close and we're in the same state same city if 
possible.

Josh



From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 19:27:47 2011
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (anjelinac26 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:27:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in baltimore
In-Reply-To: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
References: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22B35A72-0ABC-4FB0-85CE-7160B51E4ADB@gmail.com>

Have you given ms project a try?  I wouldn't rule out its accessibility based on the lack of replies.
Good luck

Anjelina
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 5, 2011, at 2:18 PM, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I hope that after I get my degree that I will be able to get a job more easily. I'm working on my bachelors in information technology right now. I wrote to the nabs-l list about ms-project. nobody responded so I guess its really not that accessible so I'm going to have to work with the college, capella university online to come up with another way for me to take this class or these two classes. I also want to move to baltimore because they have an aquarium with dolphins there. I've been interested in dolphins since I was little. And I'd like to volunteer there someday soon. Actually my son is three years old now but when he turns 18 I want to propose to him the idea maybe starting our own aquarium. most aquariums have the standard bottlenose dolphin species. but there are other smaller species out there that don't get nearly as much attention so perhaps midway in my IT career I could find out what it takes to have an aquarium and make it profitable by having the less common and smaller more safe and sociable dolphin species rather than the common larger species which for some reason most aquariums have. Now I have no experience whatsoever working with dolphins, but information technology, computers, foreign languages and dolphins are my primary interests. I would like to have a pet dolphin someday. But you can't have them as pets. So the only legal way for me to have pet dolphins would be if I owned my own aquarium someday and had all the licenses and stuff. I may need sighted help, at least some. so that's where my son and any other kids I may have would come in if they're interested when they're older. My wife is blind too. Living in baltimore would let her go to bism for 8 months while still being with her family. I went out to colorado and missed 8 or so months of my son's life. My wife really needs to go to a good quality training program at some point but before she does I want to arrange it so she is close and we're in the same state same city if possible.
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 19:43:34 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:43:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in baltimore
References: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <244DB4150BC4460FB396285DE2C240D2@Ashley>

Josh,
First I would try the software MS project before assuming its not usable. 
Maybe no one used it here.  Call Freedom scientific or the screen reader 
company you're using and ask them.

Second, regarding moving, think ahead.  You can visit the acquarium when 
visiting Baltimore.  I would research and ensure that is where you want to 
live.  Surely there's other aquariums near you so don't let dolphins be a 
determining factor.  Consider the job outlook, public transit, affordability 
of housing and more.Call someone in the Baltimore nfb chapter and ask about 
Baltimore's transit and things like that to live.

Also consider what you're wife wants.  There are other centers besides Bism; 
moving needs to be a team decission.
Ashley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:18 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in baltimore


> Hi
>
> I hope that after I get my degree that I will be able to get a job more 
> easily. I'm working on my bachelors in information technology right now. I 
> wrote to the nabs-l list about ms-project. nobody responded so I guess its 
> really not that accessible so I'm going to have to work with the college, 
> capella university online to come up with another way for me to take this 
> class or these two classes. I also want to move to baltimore because they 
> have an aquarium with dolphins there. I've been interested in dolphins 
> since I was little. And I'd like to volunteer there someday soon. Actually 
> my son is three years old now but when he turns 18 I want to propose to 
> him the idea maybe starting our own aquarium. most aquariums have the 
> standard bottlenose dolphin species. but there are other smaller species 
> out there that don't get nearly as much attention so perhaps midway in my 
> IT career I could find out what it takes to have an aquarium and make it 
> profitable by having the less common and smaller more safe and sociable 
> dolphin species rather than the common larger species which for some 
> reason most aquariums have. Now I have no experience whatsoever working 
> with dolphins, but information technology, computers, foreign languages 
> and dolphins are my primary interests. I would like to have a pet dolphin 
> someday. But you can't have them as pets. So the only legal way for me to 
> have pet dolphins would be if I owned my own aquarium someday and had all 
> the licenses and stuff. I may need sighted help, at least some. so that's 
> where my son and any other kids I may have would come in if they're 
> interested when they're older. My wife is blind too. Living in baltimore 
> would let her go to bism for 8 months while still being with her family. I 
> went out to colorado and missed 8 or so months of my son's life. My wife 
> really needs to go to a good quality training program at some point but 
> before she does I want to arrange it so she is close and we're in the same 
> state same city if possible.
>
> Josh
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 19:45:38 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:45:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in baltimore
In-Reply-To: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
References: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <133F904072D940BA9DB7D62C0E009C3F@Rufus>

Josh,

I think you'd be better off writing to the Computer Science list.  I briefly
considered learning how to use the software to help streamline workflow, but
it's a rather bloated package and opted for Basecamp instead.

Regards,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:18 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in baltimore

Hi

I hope that after I get my degree that I will be able to get a job more 
easily. I'm working on my bachelors in information technology 
right now. 
I wrote to the nabs-l list about ms-project. nobody responded 
so I guess 
its really not that accessible so I'm going to have to work with the 
college, capella university online to come up with another way 
for me to 
take this class or these two classes. I also want to move to baltimore 
because they have an aquarium with dolphins there. I've been interested 
in dolphins since I was little. And I'd like to volunteer there someday 
soon. Actually my son is three years old now but when he turns 
18 I want 
to propose to him the idea maybe starting our own aquarium. most 
aquariums have the standard bottlenose dolphin species. but there are 
other smaller species out there that don't get nearly as much attention 
so perhaps midway in my IT career I could find out what it 
takes to have 
an aquarium and make it profitable by having the less common 
and smaller 
more safe and sociable dolphin species rather than the common larger 
species which for some reason most aquariums have. Now I have no 
experience whatsoever working with dolphins, but information 
technology, 
computers, foreign languages and dolphins are my primary interests. I 
would like to have a pet dolphin someday. But you can't have them as 
pets. So the only legal way for me to have pet dolphins would be if I 
owned my own aquarium someday and had all the licenses and stuff. I may 
need sighted help, at least some. so that's where my son and any other 
kids I may have would come in if they're interested when they're older. 
My wife is blind too. Living in baltimore would let her go to 
bism for 8 
months while still being with her family. I went out to colorado and 
missed 8 or so months of my son's life. My wife really needs to go to a 
good quality training program at some point but before she does I want 
to arrange it so she is close and we're in the same state same city if 
possible.

Josh


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jan  5 19:57:08 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 13:57:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in Baltimore
In-Reply-To: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
References: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000185045179@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Josh:

Just because you don't get a response here -- it doesn't mean that MS 
Project is accessible, or that it isn't.  People here may not know.

I could be wrong -- but I believe I am remembering that it is at 
least partially accessible. I would suggest asking on the NFBCS list,

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org

as people there are more likely to have used it.  Other possible 
lists where people might know include, gui-talk, trainer-talk, and/or 
promotion-technology.

Other lists on other servers might include one aimed at blind 
programmers, as they may well have used the program.

Dave

At 01:18 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>I hope that after I get my degree that I will be able to get a job 
>more easily. I'm working on my bachelors in information technology 
>right now. I wrote to the nabs-l list about ms-project. nobody 
>responded so I guess its really not that accessible so I'm going to 
>have to work with the college, capella university online to come up 
>with another way for me to take this class or these two classes. I 
>also want to move to baltimore because they have an aquarium with 
>dolphins there. I've been interested in dolphins since I was little. 
>And I'd like to volunteer there someday soon. Actually my son is 
>three years old now but when he turns 18 I want to propose to him 
>the idea maybe starting our own aquarium. most aquariums have the 
>standard bottlenose dolphin species. but there are other smaller 
>species out there that don't get nearly as much attention so perhaps 
>midway in my IT career I could find out what it takes to have an 
>aquarium and make it profitable by having the less common and 
>smaller more safe and sociable dolphin species rather than the 
>common larger species which for some reason most aquariums have. Now 
>I have no experience whatsoever working with dolphins, but 
>information technology, computers, foreign languages and dolphins 
>are my primary interests. I would like to have a pet dolphin 
>someday. But you can't have them as pets. So the only legal way for 
>me to have pet dolphins would be if I owned my own aquarium someday 
>and had all the licenses and stuff. I may need sighted help, at 
>least some. so that's where my son and any other kids I may have 
>would come in if they're interested when they're older. My wife is 
>blind too. Living in baltimore would let her go to bism for 8 months 
>while still being with her family. I went out to colorado and missed 
>8 or so months of my son's life. My wife really needs to go to a 
>good quality training program at some point but before she does I 
>want to arrange it so she is close and we're in the same state same 
>city if possible.
>
>Josh




From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jan  5 20:00:22 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 14:00:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
In-Reply-To: <rg001f0032PutTY05g0FQs@netzero.net>
References: <rg001f0032PutTY05g0FQs@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000185046192@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Adobe InDesign is definitely not free.  It is a sophisticated, 
graphical, desktop publishing program.  While I don't know for sure, 
I would have to guess that is is not primarily accessible.  You might 
be able to learn to do specific things in it -- but it is designed as 
a graphical tool.

You could try contacting Adobe's access folks access.adobe.com I 
believe is their site.

Dave



At 10:00 PM 1/4/2011, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Is anybody familiar with Adobe In design? Is this software 
>accessible with screen readers like JAWS, NVDA, or some other? If 
>so, how accessible? Also, is this free?
>Does anyone use this program? I've heard that this program is used 
>for publishing newspapers and books, and has anyone done such things 
>successfully with In Design?




From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 20:21:23 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 15:21:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in Baltimore
References: <4D24C405.50701@gmail.com>
	<auto-000185045179@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <0C816A3AD99B483BB3EAF3DD3EF8F583@Ashley>

Hi,
That's right. This is a student's list and most students use typical 
Microsoft office products such as Word, powerpoint and excell.  So lack of 
responses just means no one knows or your message was overlooked; people get 
lots of messages a day and you may get a hundred if you're subscribed to 
multiple lists.

I'd also suggest calling the maker of the product to ask about 
accessibility; if you belong to a NFB chapter ask there too.  People can be 
real resourceful.
Someone at NFB headquarters may know; maybe Curtis Chong.
Good luck.
Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blind people in Baltimore


> Josh:
>
> Just because you don't get a response here -- it doesn't mean that MS 
> Project is accessible, or that it isn't.  People here may not know.
>
> I could be wrong -- but I believe I am remembering that it is at least 
> partially accessible. I would suggest asking on the NFBCS list,
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>
> as people there are more likely to have used it.  Other possible lists 
> where people might know include, gui-talk, trainer-talk, and/or 
> promotion-technology.
>
> Other lists on other servers might include one aimed at blind programmers, 
> as they may well have used the program.
>
> Dave
>
> At 01:18 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote:
>>Hi
>>
>>I hope that after I get my degree that I will be able to get a job more 
>>easily. I'm working on my bachelors in information technology right now. I 
>>wrote to the nabs-l list about ms-project. nobody responded so I guess its 
>>really not that accessible so I'm going to have to work with the college, 
>>capella university online to come up with another way for me to take this 
>>class or these two classes. I also want to move to baltimore because they 
>>have an aquarium with dolphins there. I've been interested in dolphins 
>>since I was little. And I'd like to volunteer there someday soon. Actually 
>>my son is three years old now but when he turns 18 I want to propose to 
>>him the idea maybe starting our own aquarium. most aquariums have the 
>>standard bottlenose dolphin species. but there are other smaller species 
>>out there that don't get nearly as much attention so perhaps midway in my 
>>IT career I could find out what it takes to have an aquarium and make it 
>>profitable by having the less common and smaller more safe and sociable 
>>dolphin species rather than the common larger species which for some 
>>reason most aquariums have. Now I have no experience whatsoever working 
>>with dolphins, but information technology, computers, foreign languages 
>>and dolphins are my primary interests. I would like to have a pet dolphin 
>>someday. But you can't have them as pets. So the only legal way for me to 
>>have pet dolphins would be if I owned my own aquarium someday and had all 
>>the licenses and stuff. I may need sighted help, at least some. so that's 
>>where my son and any other kids I may have would come in if they're 
>>interested when they're older. My wife is blind too. Living in baltimore 
>>would let her go to bism for 8 months while still being with her family. I 
>>went out to colorado and missed 8 or so months of my son's life. My wife 
>>really needs to go to a good quality training program at some point but 
>>before she does I want to arrange it so she is close and we're in the same 
>>state same city if possible.
>>
>>Josh
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From mikaelastevens at cableone.net  Wed Jan  5 20:53:24 2011
From: mikaelastevens at cableone.net (Mikaela Stevens)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:53:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
In-Reply-To: <auto-000185046192@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <rg001f0032PutTY05g0FQs@netzero.net>
	<auto-000185046192@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <000001cbad1a$98a6bc10$c9f43430$@net>

In Design is very expensive, even if purchased with the student discount. It
is an amazing graphical tool, but unfortunately it is not accessible for the
blind. I have used it with assistance many times. I could not do anything on
my own...it is simply too visual. Some people who have some residual vision
have told me that they can get close to the screen and use it, but if you
need a screen reader, In Design is not the program for you.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:00 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design

Adobe InDesign is definitely not free.  It is a sophisticated, 
graphical, desktop publishing program.  While I don't know for sure, 
I would have to guess that is is not primarily accessible.  You might 
be able to learn to do specific things in it -- but it is designed as 
a graphical tool.

You could try contacting Adobe's access folks access.adobe.com I 
believe is their site.

Dave



At 10:00 PM 1/4/2011, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Is anybody familiar with Adobe In design? Is this software 
>accessible with screen readers like JAWS, NVDA, or some other? If 
>so, how accessible? Also, is this free?
>Does anyone use this program? I've heard that this program is used 
>for publishing newspapers and books, and has anyone done such things 
>successfully with In Design?



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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3359 - Release Date: 01/04/11
12:34:00



From tealbloodworth at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 20:58:20 2011
From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (autTeal Bloodwortho)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:58:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] kurzweil or new docuscanPlus?
References: <4D2494FC.4060406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A4AA39C173C4B8AAF709A4B00E937B6@PC185582706413>

is this the intell scanner that you hold at eye level? I am going to be 
introduced to this scanner friday but haven't really found any information 
about it.

        -Teal

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:57 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] kurzweil or new docuscanPlus?


> Hi
>
> Depending on your rrequirements you may want to save some money and buy 
> docuscanPlus from serotek. just go to www.docuscanplus.com its 
> self-voiceing and you can also install the thing on your computer. Oh and 
> by the way this friday they'll be taking pre-orders for the hover-cam 
> which works with docuscanplus. docuscanplus uses omnipage OCR. they'll be 
> adding foreign language recognition to it soon. why use a camera to scan 
> books? no debinding the book, hoverCam focuses and adjusts for lighting 
> automatically. best of all to scan a book just position it under the 
> camera and turn the pages until you're done.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com
> 



From mikaelastevens at cableone.net  Wed Jan  5 21:01:25 2011
From: mikaelastevens at cableone.net (Mikaela Stevens)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:01:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry designing
Message-ID: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC>

Hello,

 

I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get some help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind person.



For those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do you use to help you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which color? Do you use pliers? What helps you do this successfully without hurting yourself?

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Mikaela

From mikaelastevens at cableone.net  Wed Jan  5 21:05:13 2011
From: mikaelastevens at cableone.net (Mikaela Stevens)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:05:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
Message-ID: <0010218FA9BA4F8A99BA600D199E7F5E@MikealaPC>

Hello,

 

I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get some help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind person. For those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do you use to help you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which color? Do you use pliers? What helps you do this successfully without hurting yourself?

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Mikaela

From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jan  5 21:19:57 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 15:19:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] kurzweil or new docuscanPlus?
In-Reply-To: <8A4AA39C173C4B8AAF709A4B00E937B6@PC185582706413>
References: <4D2494FC.4060406@gmail.com>
	<8A4AA39C173C4B8AAF709A4B00E937B6@PC185582706413>
Message-ID: <auto-000188740516@mailfront1.g2host.com>

No, that is the Intel Reader.  Docuscan is from Serotek, it is a 
"cloud-based OCR solution" which means you send it an image, it 
analyzes it and sends you text back.

Dave At 02:58 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote:
>is this the intell scanner that you hold at eye level? I am going to 
>be introduced to this scanner friday but haven't really found any 
>information about it.
>
>        -Teal




From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 21:22:29 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:22:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
References: <rg001f0032PutTY05g0FQs@netzero.net><auto-000185046192@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<000001cbad1a$98a6bc10$c9f43430$@net>
Message-ID: <928DE697453D4590BB00B496D82FDA93@Ashley>

What does the software do?  Create brochures?  Is its purpose for presenting 
graphical stuff like pictures for advertisements or text with a visual 
background?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mikaela Stevens" <mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design


> In Design is very expensive, even if purchased with the student discount. 
> It
> is an amazing graphical tool, but unfortunately it is not accessible for 
> the
> blind. I have used it with assistance many times. I could not do anything 
> on
> my own...it is simply too visual. Some people who have some residual 
> vision
> have told me that they can get close to the screen and use it, but if you
> need a screen reader, In Design is not the program for you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of David Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:00 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
>
> Adobe InDesign is definitely not free.  It is a sophisticated,
> graphical, desktop publishing program.  While I don't know for sure,
> I would have to guess that is is not primarily accessible.  You might
> be able to learn to do specific things in it -- but it is designed as
> a graphical tool.
>
> You could try contacting Adobe's access folks access.adobe.com I
> believe is their site.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> At 10:00 PM 1/4/2011, you wrote:
>>Hello,
>>
>>Is anybody familiar with Adobe In design? Is this software
>>accessible with screen readers like JAWS, NVDA, or some other? If
>>so, how accessible? Also, is this free?
>>Does anyone use this program? I've heard that this program is used
>>for publishing newspapers and books, and has anyone done such things
>>successfully with In Design?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40cab
> leone.net
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3359 - Release Date: 01/04/11
> 12:34:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From jp100 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 21:24:32 2011
From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:24:32 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
In-Reply-To: <D4769BC30BB24137A1A6067A5860E3F8@CherrylPC>
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>
	<D4769BC30BB24137A1A6067A5860E3F8@CherrylPC>
Message-ID: <001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>

Howdy,

I just installed Windows Live yesterday, so I'm running that particular
version.

I'm also running JFW 10.0.1139.

What has now been happening is that my friend types something in, and JAWS
will read it the first time but when I try to use my jaws cursor or other
commands, I can't get it to read anything but graphics and the menu bar.
It's annoying.


-----Original Message-----
From: trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cherryl
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:59 AM
To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology; 'NFB in Computer
Science Mailing List'; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger

Hello Jim.

I am also running Windows Vista with Jaws 10 and Windows Live.  I am having 
no issue, mine is working well, so I have a couple questions.

1.  What version of Windows live are you running?

2.  What version of Jaws 10 are you using?

3.  Did you go into control panel and turn off user accounts?  This can 
cause lots of problems with Jaws and other external programs if left on.


I look forward to your response.

Have an excellent day.

Cherryl
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'List for 
teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger


> Howdy,
>
>
>
> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on 
> to
> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and will
> do that in a while.
>
> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read 
> the
> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to 
> me.
>
>
>
> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
> something's different here.
>
>
>
> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
> necessary.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trainer-talk mailing list
> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Trainer-talk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/cermc%40telus.
net 


_______________________________________________
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Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Trainer-talk:
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ink.net



From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Wed Jan  5 21:24:29 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 16:24:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
In-Reply-To: <0010218FA9BA4F8A99BA600D199E7F5E@MikealaPC>
References: <0010218FA9BA4F8A99BA600D199E7F5E@MikealaPC>
Message-ID: <CC7EE6B952A84002AAEB6358921EA163@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hey,

I have no idea how to make jewlry, but could you separate beads into 
separate, labeled containers, such as one labeled red for red beads, white 
for white beads, etc. To do this, you may have a sighted assistant do the 
separating, or it may be possible to obtain the beads or other jewlry making 
pieces in certain colors so you could do it yourself. Anita


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mikaela Stevens" <mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:05 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but 
> have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get 
> some help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind 
> person. For those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do you 
> use to help you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which color? Do 
> you use pliers? What helps you do this successfully without hurting 
> yourself?
>
>
>
> Thanks for the advice!
>
>
>
> Mikaela
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Jan  5 21:33:01 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:33:01 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
References: <0010218FA9BA4F8A99BA600D199E7F5E@MikealaPC>
	<CC7EE6B952A84002AAEB6358921EA163@AnitaAdkinsPC>
Message-ID: <3F9A4D877B9346F5B5BB5A8BFE15CBBD@stanford.edu>

For color sorting, do you have an iPhone?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing


> Hey,
>
> I have no idea how to make jewlry, but could you separate beads into 
> separate, labeled containers, such as one labeled red for red beads, white 
> for white beads, etc. To do this, you may have a sighted assistant do the 
> separating, or it may be possible to obtain the beads or other jewlry 
> making pieces in certain colors so you could do it yourself. Anita
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mikaela Stevens" <mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:05 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but 
>> have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get 
>> some help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind 
>> person. For those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do 
>> you use to help you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which 
>> color? Do you use pliers? What helps you do this successfully without 
>> hurting yourself?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the advice!
>>
>>
>>
>> Mikaela
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 22:01:20 2011
From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:01:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Live Messenger
In-Reply-To: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>
Message-ID: <A769EF9BAC2148F48052AE25CBCA02C6@kerrie025e8776>

Jim.
They have changed versions of windows live messenger. You'll probably have 
to upgrade to either jaws 11 or 12. Which I think only work on windows vista 
or 7
Hope that helps,
Karrie

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:17 PM
To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'List for 
teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Live Messenger

> Howdy,
>
>
>
> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on 
> to
> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and will
> do that in a while.
>
> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read 
> the
> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to 
> me.
>
>
>
> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
> something's different here.
>
>
>
> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
> necessary.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com 



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jan  5 21:55:59 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 15:55:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
In-Reply-To: <928DE697453D4590BB00B496D82FDA93@Ashley>
References: <rg001f0032PutTY05g0FQs@netzero.net>
	<auto-000185046192@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<000001cbad1a$98a6bc10$c9f43430$@net>
	<928DE697453D4590BB00B496D82FDA93@Ashley>
Message-ID: <auto-000185072969@mailfront2.g2host.com>

It is a professional desktop publishing program.  It can be used to 
produce files employed to print anything from brochures to books.  It 
can also output PDF files.

Dave

At 03:22 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote:
>What does the software do?  Create brochures?  Is its purpose for 
>presenting graphical stuff like pictures for advertisements or text 
>with a visual background?
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikaela Stevens" 
><mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:53 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
>
>
>>In Design is very expensive, even if purchased with the student discount. It
>>is an amazing graphical tool, but unfortunately it is not accessible for the
>>blind. I have used it with assistance many times. I could not do anything on
>>my own...it is simply too visual. Some people who have some residual vision
>>have told me that they can get close to the screen and use it, but if you
>>need a screen reader, In Design is not the program for you.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>Of David Andrews
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:00 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
>>
>>Adobe InDesign is definitely not free.  It is a sophisticated,
>>graphical, desktop publishing program.  While I don't know for sure,
>>I would have to guess that is is not primarily accessible.  You might
>>be able to learn to do specific things in it -- but it is designed as
>>a graphical tool.
>>
>>You could try contacting Adobe's access folks access.adobe.com I
>>believe is their site.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>At 10:00 PM 1/4/2011, you wrote:
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>Is anybody familiar with Adobe In design? Is this software
>>>accessible with screen readers like JAWS, NVDA, or some other? If
>>>so, how accessible? Also, is this free?
>>>Does anyone use this program? I've heard that this program is used
>>>for publishing newspapers and books, and has anyone done such things
>>>successfully with In Design?




From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 22:08:30 2011
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:08:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Live Messenger
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>
	<A769EF9BAC2148F48052AE25CBCA02C6@kerrie025e8776>
Message-ID: <16BB195FC5874F5597E617D4A84A4BC7@hometwxakonvzn>

Karrie, Doesn't work on eleven. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karrie Kinstetter" <skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Windows Live Messenger


> Jim.
> They have changed versions of windows live messenger. You'll probably have 
> to upgrade to either jaws 11 or 12. Which I think only work on windows 
> vista or 7
> Hope that helps,
> Karrie
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:17 PM
> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'List 
> for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" 
> <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association 
> of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Live Messenger
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on 
>> to
>> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and 
>> will
>> do that in a while.
>>
>> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read 
>> the
>> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to 
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
>> something's different here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
>> necessary.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 22:31:27 2011
From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:31:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
In-Reply-To: <3F9A4D877B9346F5B5BB5A8BFE15CBBD@stanford.edu>
References: <0010218FA9BA4F8A99BA600D199E7F5E@MikealaPC>
	<CC7EE6B952A84002AAEB6358921EA163@AnitaAdkinsPC>
	<3F9A4D877B9346F5B5BB5A8BFE15CBBD@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikM1GjdPOv5Jja_uZmDtK7tXTYXDJ=oHxP+-Urb@mail.gmail.com>

You can definitely get beads at craft stores separated by color, and the
same stores will usually sell those boxes with various size compartments.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <
ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> For color sorting, do you have an iPhone?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
>
>
>  Hey,
>>
>> I have no idea how to make jewlry, but could you separate beads into
>> separate, labeled containers, such as one labeled red for red beads, white
>> for white beads, etc. To do this, you may have a sighted assistant do the
>> separating, or it may be possible to obtain the beads or other jewlry making
>> pieces in certain colors so you could do it yourself. Anita
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikaela Stevens" <
>> mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:05 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
>>
>>
>>  Hello,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but
>>> have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get some
>>> help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind person. For
>>> those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do you use to help
>>> you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which color? Do you use
>>> pliers? What helps you do this successfully without hurting yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mikaela
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carroll.kathryn.e%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
St. John's University College of Law 2013
631-521-3018

From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 22:40:27 2011
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 16:40:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry designing
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC>
Message-ID: <2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41>

Hello Mikaela:

     I suggest you join the Krafters list. That group will have better 
answers. Beads could be sorted into compartmented boxes. Ziplock bags could 
hold a certain kind of bead with a braille label. Are you wanting to do lost 
wax casting of rings or other solid pieces? Hope this makes sense.

Regards,

Robedrt

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mikaela Stevens" <mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:01 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry designing


> Hello,
>
>
>
> I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but 
> have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get 
> some help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind 
> person.
>
>
>
> For those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do you use to 
> help you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which color? Do you 
> use pliers? What helps you do this successfully without hurting yourself?
>
>
>
> Thanks for the advice!
>
>
>
> Mikaela
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net 



From k7uij at panix.com  Wed Jan  5 22:53:53 2011
From: k7uij at panix.com (Mike Freeman)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 14:53:53 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
In-Reply-To: <001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>
	<D4769BC30BB24137A1A6067A5860E3F8@CherrylPC>
	<001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>
Message-ID: <5C2274D7-124A-4900-AB54-98110F011EB7@panix.com>

Hey!  You might have to -- gasp -- call your friend on the phone! <g>

Mike


On Jan 5, 2011, at 13:24, "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> I just installed Windows Live yesterday, so I'm running that particular
> version.
> 
> I'm also running JFW 10.0.1139.
> 
> What has now been happening is that my friend types something in, and JAWS
> will read it the first time but when I try to use my jaws cursor or other
> commands, I can't get it to read anything but graphics and the menu bar.
> It's annoying.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cherryl
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:59 AM
> To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology; 'NFB in Computer
> Science Mailing List'; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
> 
> Hello Jim.
> 
> I am also running Windows Vista with Jaws 10 and Windows Live.  I am having 
> no issue, mine is working well, so I have a couple questions.
> 
> 1.  What version of Windows live are you running?
> 
> 2.  What version of Jaws 10 are you using?
> 
> 3.  Did you go into control panel and turn off user accounts?  This can 
> cause lots of problems with Jaws and other external programs if left on.
> 
> 
> I look forward to your response.
> 
> Have an excellent day.
> 
> Cherryl
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'List for 
> teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:17 AM
> Subject: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
> 
> 
>> Howdy,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on 
>> to
>> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and will
>> do that in a while.
>> 
>> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read 
>> the
>> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to 
>> me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
>> something's different here.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
>> necessary.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trainer-talk mailing list
>> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Trainer-talk:
>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/cermc%40telus.
> net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trainer-talk mailing list
> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Trainer-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthl
> ink.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com


From jp100 at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 23:29:10 2011
From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 15:29:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] [nfbcs] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live
	Messenger
In-Reply-To: <5C2274D7-124A-4900-AB54-98110F011EB7@panix.com>
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>	<D4769BC30BB24137A1A6067A5860E3F8@CherrylPC>	<001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>
	<5C2274D7-124A-4900-AB54-98110F011EB7@panix.com>
Message-ID: <006b01cbad30$5be4ae20$13ae0a60$@net>

Funny.
He's long distance, and it was his request to use the program.


-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Freeman
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:54 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Cc: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; National Association of Blind Students mailing
list; List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology; NFB in Computer
Science Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [nfbcs] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger

Hey!  You might have to -- gasp -- call your friend on the phone! <g>

Mike


On Jan 5, 2011, at 13:24, "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> I just installed Windows Live yesterday, so I'm running that particular
> version.
> 
> I'm also running JFW 10.0.1139.
> 
> What has now been happening is that my friend types something in, and JAWS
> will read it the first time but when I try to use my jaws cursor or other
> commands, I can't get it to read anything but graphics and the menu bar.
> It's annoying.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cherryl
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:59 AM
> To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology; 'NFB in
Computer
> Science Mailing List'; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
> 
> Hello Jim.
> 
> I am also running Windows Vista with Jaws 10 and Windows Live.  I am
having 
> no issue, mine is working well, so I have a couple questions.
> 
> 1.  What version of Windows live are you running?
> 
> 2.  What version of Jaws 10 are you using?
> 
> 3.  Did you go into control panel and turn off user accounts?  This can 
> cause lots of problems with Jaws and other external programs if left on.
> 
> 
> I look forward to your response.
> 
> Have an excellent day.
> 
> Cherryl
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'List
for 
> teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:17 AM
> Subject: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
> 
> 
>> Howdy,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on 
>> to
>> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and
will
>> do that in a while.
>> 
>> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read 
>> the
>> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to 
>> me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
>> something's different here.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
>> necessary.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trainer-talk mailing list
>> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Trainer-talk:
>> 
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/cermc%40telus.
> net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trainer-talk mailing list
> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Trainer-talk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthl
> ink.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nfbcs:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthlink.
net



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jan  5 23:30:29 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:30:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
In-Reply-To: <5C2274D7-124A-4900-AB54-98110F011EB7@panix.com>
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net>
	<D4769BC30BB24137A1A6067A5860E3F8@CherrylPC>
	<001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>
	<5C2274D7-124A-4900-AB54-98110F011EB7@panix.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000188765903@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Is there an app for that? (smirk)


Dave

At 04:53 PM 1/5/2011, Mike Freeman wrote:
>Hey!  You might have to -- gasp -- call your friend on the phone! <g>
>
>Mike
>
>
>On Jan 5, 2011, at 13:24, "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I just installed Windows Live yesterday, so I'm running that particular
> > version.
> >
> > I'm also running JFW 10.0.1139.
> >
> > What has now been happening is that my friend types something in, and JAWS
> > will read it the first time but when I try to use my jaws cursor or other
> > commands, I can't get it to read anything but graphics and the menu bar.
> > It's annoying.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cherryl
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:59 AM
> > To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology; 'NFB in Computer
> > Science Mailing List'; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> > Students mailing list'
> > Subject: Re: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
> >
> > Hello Jim.
> >
> > I am also running Windows Vista with Jaws 10 and Windows Live.  I 
> am having
> > no issue, mine is working well, so I have a couple questions.
> >
> > 1.  What version of Windows live are you running?
> >
> > 2.  What version of Jaws 10 are you using?
> >
> > 3.  Did you go into control panel and turn off user accounts?  This can
> > cause lots of problems with Jaws and other external programs if left on.
> >
> >
> > I look forward to your response.
> >
> > Have an excellent day.
> >
> > Cherryl
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> > To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; 
> "'List for
> > teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>;
> > <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> > list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:17 AM
> > Subject: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
> >
> >
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on
> >> to
> >> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and will
> >> do that in a while.
> >>
> >> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read
> >> the
> >> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to
> >> me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
> >> something's different here.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
> >> necessary.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trainer-talk mailing list
> >> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> Trainer-talk:
> >>
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/cermc%40telus.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trainer-talk mailing list
> > Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Trainer-talk:
> > 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthl
> > ink.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nfbcs mailing list
> > nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nfbcs:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nfbcs mailing list
>nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com




From mikaelastevens at cableone.net  Thu Jan  6 01:13:25 2011
From: mikaelastevens at cableone.net (Mikaela Stevens)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 18:13:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
In-Reply-To: <3F9A4D877B9346F5B5BB5A8BFE15CBBD@stanford.edu>
References: <0010218FA9BA4F8A99BA600D199E7F5E@MikealaPC><CC7EE6B952A84002AAEB6358921EA163@AnitaAdkinsPC>
	<3F9A4D877B9346F5B5BB5A8BFE15CBBD@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <DFD3877FDEC84BFC9E4167DAD283FE3E@MikealaPC>

Nicole,
No, I do not have an i Phone.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing


> For color sorting, do you have an iPhone?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
>
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> I have no idea how to make jewlry, but could you separate beads into 
>> separate, labeled containers, such as one labeled red for red beads, 
>> white for white beads, etc. To do this, you may have a sighted assistant 
>> do the separating, or it may be possible to obtain the beads or other 
>> jewlry making pieces in certain colors so you could do it yourself. Anita
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mikaela Stevens" <mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:05 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry Designing
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but 
>>> have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get 
>>> some help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind 
>>> person. For those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do 
>>> you use to help you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which 
>>> color? Do you use pliers? What helps you do this successfully without 
>>> hurting yourself?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the advice!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mikaela
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40cableone.net 



From mcikeyc at aol.com  Thu Jan  6 02:04:13 2011
From: mcikeyc at aol.com (Michelle Clark)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 21:04:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Visio using JAWS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1294250406.11279.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <201101060204.p0624FNI024035@imr-da05.mx.aol.com>

Hello,

I am looking for feedback on how I can use JAWS to interpret flowchart done
in Visio. Any ideas?

Michelle 



From mikaelastevens at cableone.net  Thu Jan  6 02:06:55 2011
From: mikaelastevens at cableone.net (Mikaela Stevens)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 19:06:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry designing
In-Reply-To: <2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC>
	<2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41>
Message-ID: <129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC>

Robert,
I'm not sure what wax casting rings means. So I guess I won't be doing much 
of that. Smile. Ha ha. I would like to make bracelets and necklaces--maybe 
some earings.
Thanks for the sorting suggestion!

Mikaela

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Jaquiss" <rjaquiss at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jewelry designing


> Hello Mikaela:
>
>     I suggest you join the Krafters list. That group will have better 
> answers. Beads could be sorted into compartmented boxes. Ziplock bags 
> could hold a certain kind of bead with a braille label. Are you wanting to 
> do lost wax casting of rings or other solid pieces? Hope this makes sense.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robedrt
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mikaela Stevens" <mikaelastevens at cableone.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 3:01 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Jewelry designing
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking into starting a jewelry making business. I love jewelry but 
>> have not had much experience creating designs before. I am going to get 
>> some help from sighted people that have no idea how to help a blind 
>> person.
>>
>>
>>
>> For those of you who have made nice jewelry what techniques do you use to 
>> help you? How do you tell which stones or beads are which color? Do you 
>> use pliers? What helps you do this successfully without hurting yourself?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the advice!
>>
>>
>>
>> Mikaela
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikaelastevens%40cableone.net 



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Thu Jan  6 03:41:44 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 21:41:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] blind people in Baltimore
In-Reply-To: <0C816A3AD99B483BB3EAF3DD3EF8F583@Ashley>
Message-ID: <auto-000188786952@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Josh,

I have done some checking, and Microsoft Project is apparently not very accessible.  However, there may have been 
some changes in the latest version that might make parts of it more accessible.  This might be a good question for the 
Blind Programmers list.  Given your field of study, that would probably be a good resource for you in general.  You can 
subscribe by sending a note with "subscribe" without the quotes in the subject to

program-l-request at freelists.org

I would also suggest that you may not necessarily want to look for other alternatives to use in your classes.  There is 
something to be said for learning software like this even if you need to work with a reader.  First, it allows you to 
concentrate on the software and not the accessibility which can be important because there are some concepts 
about project tracking that you will likely learn.  Second, it is likely you won't start out with a heavy involvement in 
project management, but it is good to know how your supervisor is tracking your work.  Third, there is at least some 
chance that MS Project will be more accessible in two or three years when you are in the job market.  Fourth, I have 
found it can be useful to know software that you can't use well.  In my job, I had to learn a couple of different report 
generators that I could not use.  The reason this was important is that I had to decide which report generator best fit a 
given task as part of my job, but it was someone else's job to actually create the reports based upon the information I 
gave them.  As I have tried to point out to you on the JOBS list, not everything on the job will be as accessible as you 
would like, and you have to know how to deal with getting information using multiple tools.  Some of this would be 
easier to work around if you were not taking your course through an on-line institution, but it is still workable.  Still, we 
need to push Microsoft and the screen reader developers to work on this as MS Project can be very important when 
one gets into management.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 15:21:23 -0500, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:

>Hi,
>That's right. This is a student's list and most students use typical 
>Microsoft office products such as Word, powerpoint and excell.  So lack of 
>responses just means no one knows or your message was overlooked; people get 
>lots of messages a day and you may get a hundred if you're subscribed to 
>multiple lists.

>I'd also suggest calling the maker of the product to ask about 
>accessibility; if you belong to a NFB chapter ask there too.  People can be 
>real resourceful.
>Someone at NFB headquarters may know; maybe Curtis Chong.
>Good luck.
>Ashley
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 2:57 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blind people in Baltimore


>> Josh:
>>
>> Just because you don't get a response here -- it doesn't mean that MS 
>> Project is accessible, or that it isn't.  People here may not know.
>>
>> I could be wrong -- but I believe I am remembering that it is at least 
>> partially accessible. I would suggest asking on the NFBCS list,
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>
>> as people there are more likely to have used it.  Other possible lists 
>> where people might know include, gui-talk, trainer-talk, and/or 
>> promotion-technology.
>>
>> Other lists on other servers might include one aimed at blind programmers, 
>> as they may well have used the program.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 01:18 PM 1/5/2011, you wrote:
>>>Hi
>>>
>>>I hope that after I get my degree that I will be able to get a job more 
>>>easily. I'm working on my bachelors in information technology right now. I 
>>>wrote to the nabs-l list about ms-project. nobody responded so I guess its 
>>>really not that accessible so I'm going to have to work with the college, 
>>>capella university online to come up with another way for me to take this 
>>>class or these two classes. I also want to move to baltimore because they 
>>>have an aquarium with dolphins there. I've been interested in dolphins 
>>>since I was little. And I'd like to volunteer there someday soon. Actually 
>>>my son is three years old now but when he turns 18 I want to propose to 
>>>him the idea maybe starting our own aquarium. most aquariums have the 
>>>standard bottlenose dolphin species. but there are other smaller species 
>>>out there that don't get nearly as much attention so perhaps midway in my 
>>>IT career I could find out what it takes to have an aquarium and make it 
>>>profitable by having the less common and smaller more safe and sociable 
>>>dolphin species rather than the common larger species which for some 
>>>reason most aquariums have. Now I have no experience whatsoever working 
>>>with dolphins, but information technology, computers, foreign languages 
>>>and dolphins are my primary interests. I would like to have a pet dolphin 
>>>someday. But you can't have them as pets. So the only legal way for me to 
>>>have pet dolphins would be if I owned my own aquarium someday and had all 
>>>the licenses and stuff. I may need sighted help, at least some. so that's 
>>>where my son and any other kids I may have would come in if they're 
>>>interested when they're older. My wife is blind too. Living in baltimore 
>>>would let her go to bism for 8 months while still being with her family. I 
>>>went out to colorado and missed 8 or so months of my son's life. My wife 
>>>really needs to go to a good quality training program at some point but 
>>>before she does I want to arrange it so she is close and we're in the same 
>>>state same city if possible.
>>>
>>>Josh
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 03:50:56 2011
From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach)
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 21:50:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Comunity Service conference call January 9
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=iPTc+7_8jF1Dj-oBEKrRf5EnuLXu0MQaiQfQB@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone.
 We hope you  had very happy holidays with  family and friends!
 We want to invite you to our next community service committee call on
Sunday, January 9 at 6p.m. ET.
 We will be  having Guest Speaker and current committee Secretary,
Christine Parsons   on the call sharing about her  experiences in the
community service world.
 We will be talking about  the activities we have beenAny questions?
Feel free to email me: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com
working on and  would like  to work on as well.
 So please join  us on Sunday  Janurary  9 at 6p.m. ET.  And call in
by using   the following information: (218) 339-3600 and using
passcode 808277.  We look Forward to  having you on the call.


From kramc11 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 12:58:05 2011
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 07:58:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
In-Reply-To: <001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net><D4769BC30BB24137A1A6067A5860E3F8@CherrylPC>
	<001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>
Message-ID: <31025B3EFB194219879B81FC171056A4@SonyPC>

Have you tried other IM programs like pidgin or Miranda that can access 
windows live without using the inaccessible program? Having never tried 
this, I can't say how accessible those programs are, but it is just a 
thought.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
To: "'List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" 
<trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>; "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" 
<nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind 
Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger


> Howdy,
>
> I just installed Windows Live yesterday, so I'm running that particular
> version.
>
> I'm also running JFW 10.0.1139.
>
> What has now been happening is that my friend types something in, and JAWS
> will read it the first time but when I try to use my jaws cursor or other
> commands, I can't get it to read anything but graphics and the menu bar.
> It's annoying.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cherryl
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:59 AM
> To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology; 'NFB in 
> Computer
> Science Mailing List'; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
>
> Hello Jim.
>
> I am also running Windows Vista with Jaws 10 and Windows Live.  I am 
> having
> no issue, mine is working well, so I have a couple questions.
>
> 1.  What version of Windows live are you running?
>
> 2.  What version of Jaws 10 are you using?
>
> 3.  Did you go into control panel and turn off user accounts?  This can
> cause lots of problems with Jaws and other external programs if left on.
>
>
> I look forward to your response.
>
> Have an excellent day.
>
> Cherryl
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'List 
> for
> teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>;
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:17 AM
> Subject: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
>
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on
>> to
>> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and 
>> will
>> do that in a while.
>>
>> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read
>> the
>> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
>> something's different here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
>> necessary.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trainer-talk mailing list
>> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Trainer-talk:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/cermc%40telus.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trainer-talk mailing list
> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Trainer-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/jp100%40earthl
> ink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com 



From jp100 at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  6 16:42:35 2011
From: jp100 at earthlink.net (Jim)
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:42:35 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
In-Reply-To: <31025B3EFB194219879B81FC171056A4@SonyPC>
References: <00d801cbad0d$31ae07a0$950a16e0$@net><D4769BC30BB24137A1A6067A5860E3F8@CherrylPC>	<001d01cbad1e$f41608e0$dc421aa0$@net>
	<31025B3EFB194219879B81FC171056A4@SonyPC>
Message-ID: <006301cbadc0$b9a27930$2ce76b90$@net>

Hi Mark,

No.  I've not.  I frankly didn't even know about their existence.  <grin>


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Mark J. Cadigan
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 4:58 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger

Have you tried other IM programs like pidgin or Miranda that can access 
windows live without using the inaccessible program? Having never tried 
this, I can't say how accessible those programs are, but it is just a 
thought.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
To: "'List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" 
<trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>; "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" 
<nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind 
Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger


> Howdy,
>
> I just installed Windows Live yesterday, so I'm running that particular
> version.
>
> I'm also running JFW 10.0.1139.
>
> What has now been happening is that my friend types something in, and JAWS
> will read it the first time but when I try to use my jaws cursor or other
> commands, I can't get it to read anything but graphics and the menu bar.
> It's annoying.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cherryl
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:59 AM
> To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology; 'NFB in 
> Computer
> Science Mailing List'; blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
>
> Hello Jim.
>
> I am also running Windows Vista with Jaws 10 and Windows Live.  I am 
> having
> no issue, mine is working well, so I have a couple questions.
>
> 1.  What version of Windows live are you running?
>
> 2.  What version of Jaws 10 are you using?
>
> 3.  Did you go into control panel and turn off user accounts?  This can
> cause lots of problems with Jaws and other external programs if left on.
>
>
> I look forward to your response.
>
> Have an excellent day.
>
> Cherryl
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim" <jp100 at earthlink.net>
> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'List 
> for
> teachers and trainers of adaptive technology'" <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>;
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 11:17 AM
> Subject: [Trainer-talk] Windows Live Messenger
>
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am needing to use Windows Live Messenger very soon.  I've loaded it on
>> to
>> my Vista machine with JAWS 10.  I know.I know, I need to upgrade, and 
>> will
>> do that in a while.
>>
>> Anyway, when trying to use it with someone, I couldn't get JAWS to read
>> the
>> messages that I was typing or the messages that my friend was typing to
>> me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to use it on a Netbook computer with Windows XP and JAWS 10, but
>> something's different here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do I need specific scripts or certain commands to use it?  It's kind of
>> necessary.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trainer-talk mailing list
>> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Trainer-talk:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/cermc%40telus.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Trainer-talk at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Trainer-talk:
>
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> ink.net
>
>
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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t



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 18:27:16 2011
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 11:27:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] auto-complete and mocrosoft excel 2007
Message-ID: <AANLkTinvk=c05h3FZrhZoKVv6KMbEQ7XZmcbHbr5h2Qe@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
  I have a quick question with microsoft excel.  I'm trying to figure
out how to turn off auto-complete, as it's really, really bugging me.
Are there any avid excel users out there who can help me?
  Thanks a bunch,
Kirt


From TAnnis at afb.net  Thu Jan  6 19:30:53 2011
From: TAnnis at afb.net (Tara Annis)
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 14:30:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] AFB now accepting scholarship applications
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1294250406.11279.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.27.1294250406.11279.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F3ED2F5@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com>

I just wanted to let everyone know that the American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) is now accepting applications for our 2011 scholarships.
You can go directly to the form by visiting www.afb.org/scholarships.asp.  Our homepage, www.afb.org, has a link to the form, under the "headlines" section as well.
I have sent this announcement to the NFB parents of blind children listserv and  AER listserv, but would like more advertisement; so  please feel free to spread the word by sending information to other  listservs, make announcements on your  Facebook pages, or through word of mouth.  You can contact me, if you have any questions.

Tara Annis
Information Specialist
American Foundation for the Blind
1000 fifth Ave.
Suite 350
Huntington, WV 25701
Phone: (304) 710-3035
E-mail: tannis at afb.net
Visit our web site at: www.afb.org
Expanding possibilities for people with vision loss (TM)

Information provided in this message is for educational and informational use only and is not intended as medical advice or as an endorsement of any product.



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:00 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 51, Issue 4

Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
        nabs-l at nfbnet.org

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: baltimore maryland (Kat Bottner)
   2. Re: books on blind history (Steve Jacobson)
   3. Re: Blindness and Psychology (Mary Fernandez)
   4. Re: Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
      (Brian Hatgelakas)
   5. Re: books on blind history (Scott C. LaBarre)
   6. Re: Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
      (Steve Jacobson)
   7. Re: White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
      PM (Courtney Stover)
   8. Re: White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
      PM (Anita Adkins)
   9. Re: Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
      (Arielle Silverman)
  10. NABS State Division Contact Info (Arielle Silverman)
  11. NABS Bulletin Announcements (Arielle Silverman)
  12. Procedure for writing Words, Music and Plain-song using dots
      (1829) in DAISY format (Greg Kearney)
  13. Adobe In Design (humberto)
  14. FW: [nfbwnews] FW: [blindlaw] Great Opinion in Enyart v.  NCBE
      (Carrie Gilmer)
  15. kurzweil or new docuscanPlus? (Josh Kennedy)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 13:28:28 -0500
From: Kat Bottner <kat.bottner at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTimhOz5qdGOfZ_q+h4yck7EcE9L2UKnj-P2fy+mQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hey Josh,
I've been back and forth to Baltimore from Delaware and like you, want
to move there at some point.  I've noticed that paratransit is better,
and yes they do have busses and just a better over all transportation
system.  I want to work at the Maryland School for the Blind as a
teachers's assistant, I passed the national certified test for the
state of Maryland.  I was three points off the needed score for
Delaware, but we don't have a school for the blind here, only a school
for the deaf, that does have a deaf-blind program , but it's not the
same as working in a school for the blind.
I'm very intrested in what Maryland has to offer the blind community,
I dont' think I've ever said I dont like something I've heard about
their services etc.  I have friends there, and they tell me nothing
but totally awesome things about the over all services, transportation
and any other general programs that people with disabilities can take
advantage of.
Another plus is that the NFB headquarters is in Baltimore as well, so
again, that's a reason for me to relocate at some point.  I hope all
this information helps, if you have any other question, feel free to e
mail me off list.

Thanks and take care,
Kat

On 1/4/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Are there lots of blind people who have jobs living in Baltimore
> Maryland? Once I get my bachelors degree from capella university I would
> like to try and find a job there and move there. There are no jobs in
> the information technology field here in Berks County in the city of
> Reading Pennsylvania Berks county Pennsylvania unfortunately. I will
> have to move if I want work. I would like to live in a place where I
> could take a bus or train and go to the beach frequently in the summer.
> Also Baltimore has an aquarium with dolphins. I never saw dolphins
> before, was interested in what they are like since I was little. I'm now
> 28 years old. Plus Baltimore has inner harbor and its a fairly big city.
> Much bigger than Reading PA. My wife bought me a kapten gps for
> christmas. I already have a trekker breeze and we're short or I'm short
> on money this month so I'll send the kapten back, get money back for it
> and use that money to pay for my college textbooks. The trekker breeze
> works fine for me. its a tough little deice like the nls player is made
> to last so is the breeze. Humanware did a good job with its construction.
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kat.bottner%40gmail.com
>



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:32:06 -0600
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books on blind history
Message-ID: <auto-000023831175 at mailback2.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dr. Jernigan gave an interesting banquet address called "Blindness, Is History Against Us" perhaps from 1973 or so which notes that blind people have
been more a part of history than commonly believed.  He covers a few who were quite well-known but are not commonly heard of today.  You might find that
interesting.  The text can be found at

http://nfb.org/legacy/fr/fr1/fr92fl17.htm

I found this to be very interesting when I read it for the first time many years ago, but I ended up almost reading the whole thing now while looking for it.

When doing a search on NFB.ORG, I did not find the text of "Hope Deferred," but there are a number of references to it.  I did find a PDF version within
GoogleBooks for $5 but don't know about the accessibility.  This may still be copyrighted.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:40:13 -0500, Anita Adkins wrote:

>Hello,

>First, let me apologize to this list about my mistakes in the previous
>email. I usually proofread before I send an email, but of course, this time
>when it would matter, I failed to do that.

>The book you mention is by a major contributor to the cause of the NFB, and
>I imagine if it is available, it is probably in their library, also, I
>believe,  named after him, and so you may call and speak with someone at the
>NFB store about this publication because if it is available for purchase or
>otherwise, they will know it. Also, the NFB has other publications related
>to blindness that you may find interesting. The contact info for them is
>below.
>The phone number for questions or concerns is 410-659-9314, ext. 2216
>the book section of the Independence Market at the NFB address is:
>http://secure.nfb.org/ecommerce/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=57

>Anita
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:12 AM
>Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history


>> Hello Everyone,
>> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness which
>> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a
>> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).  I
>> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a lot
>> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on Bookshare
>> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I
>> might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about the
>> history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really
>> appreciate it.
>> Warmest regards,
>> Dennis
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:45:36 -0500
From: Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Psychology
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTinofr5_dzq=W7ctz9zWJ-FSyU72Y3uuM3bE4F3T at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Nicole,
This is an extremely interesting topic, and I know there is some
literature out there on it. I would suggest that you use your college
databases, and research that question. I would start with PsychInfo
and branch off from there. The sage journal has the latest in psych
research usually. So if your on campus on the school network just do a
google scholar search and see  what you find.
I'll probably go ahead and look around myself too. But let us know
what kind of stuff you find.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 1/3/11, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>     This quarter, I am taking a psychology course. In the book, it talks
> about imagery in the brain. Does anyone know of a resource that talks about
> the affect that blindness can have on this function of the brain?
>
> Thanks,
> Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


--
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 14:50:08 -0500
From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs
        Coming Up
Message-ID: <001001cbac48$990c3d10$9560c747 at BRIAN>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
        reply-type=original

Why would you need this type of class for just a general studdies degree?
It baffles me?  At scols like my almardara Point Park University in
Pittsburgh PA all you had to take was one general science class that was
based only on reading and lecture notes.  I received an A. in that course!
The instructor made the course fun and interesting!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tina Hansen" <th404 at comcast.net>
To: <nfb-science at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 1:26 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up


> You probably know that during the past quarter, I have been taking an
> environmental science course at my local community college for a General
> Studies degree. I'm in the second course in the series, and there are a
> number of labs coming up that either use chemicals, or are heavily
> dependent on measurements. I don't know if the lists accept attachments,
> but I felt the best way to give people an idea of what these labs are like
> is to send the information about them that I've gotten from my instructor.
> The instructor and I are not sure how to deal with these labs, but I
> figured that if you got a look at them, you could give me some ideas on
> how I might be able to participate and not just sit on the sidelines. So
> if you have any ideas on how I might deal with these labs, I'm all ears.
> Thanks.
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 12:51:53 -0700
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books on blind history
Message-ID: <41AF5421452C4E6CB186F0AC1947ADB2 at labarre>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

I apologize if this suggestion has been made already but I haven't been able
to review all the posts.  You should contact our Jacobus tenBroek Library
and ask the library staff to give you research leads.  They may also be able
to tell you how to get an accessible version of Hope Defered etc.  Call 410
659-9314 and ask for the tenBroek Library.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. ?? 2510-2521.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books on blind history


> Dr. Jernigan gave an interesting banquet address called "Blindness, Is
> History Against Us" perhaps from 1973 or so which notes that blind people
> have
> been more a part of history than commonly believed.  He covers a few who
> were quite well-known but are not commonly heard of today.  You might find
> that
> interesting.  The text can be found at
>
> http://nfb.org/legacy/fr/fr1/fr92fl17.htm
>
> I found this to be very interesting when I read it for the first time many
> years ago, but I ended up almost reading the whole thing now while looking
> for it.
>
> When doing a search on NFB.ORG, I did not find the text of "Hope
> Deferred," but there are a number of references to it.  I did find a PDF
> version within
> GoogleBooks for $5 but don't know about the accessibility.  This may still
> be copyrighted.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:40:13 -0500, Anita Adkins wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>
>>First, let me apologize to this list about my mistakes in the previous
>>email. I usually proofread before I send an email, but of course, this
>>time
>>when it would matter, I failed to do that.
>
>>The book you mention is by a major contributor to the cause of the NFB,
>>and
>>I imagine if it is available, it is probably in their library, also, I
>>believe,  named after him, and so you may call and speak with someone at
>>the
>>NFB store about this publication because if it is available for purchase
>>or
>>otherwise, they will know it. Also, the NFB has other publications related
>>to blindness that you may find interesting. The contact info for them is
>>below.
>>The phone number for questions or concerns is 410-659-9314, ext. 2216
>>the book section of the Independence Market at the NFB address is:
>>http://secure.nfb.org/ecommerce/asp/prodtype.asp?prodtype=57
>
>>Anita
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 9:12 AM
>>Subject: [nabs-l] books on blind history
>
>
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>> I am hoping to get the titles and authors of any books on blindness
>>> which
>>> you may have found helpful or educational.  Many many years ago I read a
>>> book called "hope Deferred" by Jacobus Tendbrook (probably misspelled).
>>> I
>>> think it was written in the 1940's, and my memory is that I learned a
>>> lot
>>> about the history of blindness from the book.  I just looked on
>>> Bookshare
>>> for Hope Deferred, but it is not there.  If anyone can tell me where I
>>> might be able to get a copy of this, along with any other titles about
>>> the
>>> history of blindness which you have found worthwhile, I would really
>>> appreciate it.
>>> Warmest regards,
>>> Dennis
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com
>





------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 14:39:32 -0600
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs
        Coming Up
Message-ID: <auto-000023832923 at mailback2.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Tina,

There are a lot of considerations in figuring out how you deal with this.  Let me start by saying that when I was in school, I took a general physics class
because it was an area I wanted to learn.  The instructor was not happy and he did not want me to take the class at all, let alone the lab.  My compromise
was to take the class without the lab and receive one less credit.  After taking the class, which was near the beginning of my college experience, I learned
about other blind people who took similar labs.  Since I took the class because I wanted to learn the subject, I have always regretted the fact that I didn't
take the lab.  I also saw students strike up friendships in the less formal settings of a lab.  I say all this to contrast my response with one other response to
your note that wondered why you have to do all this when he didn't.  Probably the first thing you need to determine iswhether you want to get in there and
experience what the other students are experiencing, or whether you just want to meet a requirement.

When I read the materials, it seems that there are a lot of things you will be able to observe.  The rings in a tree won't be as expressive to you in terms of the
information they convey, but you will likely be able to feel them, and probably even judge relative thicknesses with your fingernail, and while I'm no gardener,
I know from firsthand experience that you will be able to tell a good deal about the differences in soil by feeling it.  This sounds like a set of courses where
the labs contribute a lot to what is learned, and if your instructor has taken this time to discuss your participation with you, I have to think this is a good sign.

Here are a couple of things that occur to me.  It appears that some of your activities occur in a group.  Understanding which activities are in groups might be
important.  One thing that sometimes works if you are in a group or a team is that you might be a good person to be the taker of notes.  I don't mean you
wouldn't do anything else, but some of the functions you can't easily do could be done by other members, but you can still feel you are pulling your weight by
doing something that many others will not want to do.  Maybe you are less squeamish than some.  I know a blind person who won a lot of points with her
biology lab partner because the blind person didn't mind coming into contact with the white rats they were observing.  Her partner couldn't handle that part
of their lab and was glad to handle some of the other things that the blind person had some difficulty in handling.  How are you with earthworms, for
example?  <smile>

If a lot of these labs do not involve groups or teams, having someone work with you on some of this as a reader is also an option.  If you were to advertise in
your clas that another student could earn a little something extra working with you while being able to get their own work done might work.  If the college
has a DSS office, they may know of people who do reading who may have a particular interest.  In the old days, before DSS offices, advertising within the
class itself or on bulletin boards did work pretty well, if the DSS office either can't help or doesn't play that role.

Finally, establishing with the instructor what it is that he or she wants you to get out of this experience is important.  The instructor may not be concerned if
you dot every "I" and cross every "T" if the instructor feels that you are making a serious effort to do what you can and that you are indeed sharing the
experience and learning the basics.  Especially when students work in teams, the experience is never exactly the same for every student.  This will depend
upon the flexibility of the instructor, and I know that some might not be all that helpful, but it is likely that many would be.  Make sure the instructor knows
you are honestly curious.  Anyone present can tell you what color occurs when a chemical is poured on the soil, physically seeing that color isn't important
unless you are going to make a career of this, and then there really are some options.  You would, in that case, talk with Mr. Supalo, the blind guy who has
worked with others to develop audible instruments for measuring colors resulting from chemical reactions.  But you might also wonder if there is a sound to
the reaction.  You might let the instructor know that you are curious about what you can determine by feeling the slice of the tree's rings that are displayed
from a core.  There might even be some alternate experiments that you might be able to do to bring home some of the same points if it is important to you
and the instructor.  The instructor would have to guide you on this because I'm just an old math major, but it occurs to me that observing soil that is wet and
then observing it after it has dried for a day might yield some information about the makeup of the soil, maybe different information, but perhaps useful
information.

As you can probably tell, I hate to see blind people left out of experiences like this even if one can't learn every single thing in the same way as we would
with sight.  I hope that there might be some ideas here that help.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:26:57 -0800, Tina Hansen wrote:

>You probably know that during the past quarter, I have been taking an environmental science course at my local community college for a General Studies
degree. I'm in the second course in the series, and there are a number of labs coming up that either use chemicals, or are heavily dependent on
measurements. I don't know if the lists accept attachments, but I felt the best way to give people an idea of what these labs are like is to send the
information about them that I've gotten from my instructor. The instructor and I are not sure how to deal with these labs, but I figured that if you got a look at
them, you could give me some ideas on how I might be able to participate and not just sit on the sidelines. So if you have any ideas on how I might deal with
these labs, I'm all ears. Thanks.






------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 14:59:50 -0600
From: Courtney Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan.
        10 at 3:00 PM
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTi=X8G9WZchbCGbm7NAvNGhpXciaWwYvMJUna9e3 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Anita,

Thanks for pasting the info in.
Courtney

On 1/4/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey,
> Sorry if you have been asswered by Mike, but the number is provieded in the
> email. I, too, had truble finding it at first, but the number is immediately
> after the sentence, but still on the same line, that reads "The conference
> call-in information is as follows" or words to that effect.
> I will also paste the number from the email here.
> "Dial in: (800) 230-1093"
> If this msg didn't come from someone who is a frequenter on this list, I
> might have taken it for a scam. There is just something about the way it is
> worded. Mike, did you get it from a real contact, meaning someone in the
> whitehouse, or did you get it from somewhere else? Just curious, and I may
> be wrong. I don't know why I get that feeling, but it just doesn't seem to
> have a genuine feel to it. Maybe it is because it is "off the record", but
> it is asking to be widely distributed. That seems contradictory. I'm not
> sure. If it is genuine, I apologize in advance for my doubting it. Anita
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Courtney Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
> 3:00 PM
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Did any subsequent messages give the dial-in info?  I know there's
> that website where you can get captioning, and I'm not sure if the
> call will be streamed from there, or if there's some info we're
> missing.
> Courtney
>
> On 1/3/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Outreach ,
>> Disability (CRT)"
>> <Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov> > Date: January
>> 3, 2011 7:35:27 PST > To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)"
>> <Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov> > Subject: White House
>> Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
>> PM > > Dear Disability Community, > >  > > In
>> order to help keep you more informed, the White
>> House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls
>> to update you on various disability issues as
>> well as to introduce you to persons who work on
>> disability issues in the federal
>> government. > >  > > This call is off the record
>> and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and
>> ask that you distribute this email broadly to
>> your networks and list serves so that anyone who
>> wants to participate can do so. > >  > > Our next
>> call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM
>> Eastern. > >  > > The conference call information
>> is below. > >  > > Dial in: (800) 230-1093 > >
>> Title: Disability Call (use instead of code) > >
>> Date of Call: 01/10/2011 > > Start Time: 3:00 PM
>> Eastern > > For live captioning, at time of call,
>> log onto: > >
>> http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321
>> <http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>
>>  > >  > >  > > Again, please distribute
>> widely. > >  > > The White House ?? 1600
>> Pennsylvania Avenue, NW ?? Washington DC 20500 ?? 202-456-1111 > >  > >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:36:22 -0500
From: "Anita Adkins" <aadkins7 at verizon.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan.
        10 at 3:00 PM
Message-ID: <F18409057E4143F195EBAC5EC3BFD291 at AnitaAdkinsPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
        reply-type=original

Hi,

You are welcome. Also, as for my comments, I did a bit of research and found
that that number is the whitehouse's comments number, meaning it is most
likely not spam or anything like that, for which I am thankful. Have a great
day. Anita

----- Original Message -----
From: "Courtney Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
3:00 PM


Anita,

Thanks for pasting the info in.
Courtney

On 1/4/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey,
> Sorry if you have been asswered by Mike, but the number is provieded in
> the
> email. I, too, had truble finding it at first, but the number is
> immediately
> after the sentence, but still on the same line, that reads "The conference
> call-in information is as follows" or words to that effect.
> I will also paste the number from the email here.
> "Dial in: (800) 230-1093"
> If this msg didn't come from someone who is a frequenter on this list, I
> might have taken it for a scam. There is just something about the way it
> is
> worded. Mike, did you get it from a real contact, meaning someone in the
> whitehouse, or did you get it from somewhere else? Just curious, and I may
> be wrong. I don't know why I get that feeling, but it just doesn't seem to
> have a genuine feel to it. Maybe it is because it is "off the record", but
> it is asking to be widely distributed. That seems contradictory. I'm not
> sure. If it is genuine, I apologize in advance for my doubting it. Anita
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Courtney Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] White House Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at
> 3:00 PM
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Did any subsequent messages give the dial-in info?  I know there's
> that website where you can get captioning, and I'm not sure if the
> call will be streamed from there, or if there's some info we're
> missing.
> Courtney
>
> On 1/3/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Begin forwarded message: > From: "Outreach ,
>> Disability (CRT)"
>> <Disability.Outreach at usdoj.gov> > Date: January
>> 3, 2011 7:35:27 PST > To: "Basrawi, Mazen (CRT)"
>> <Mazen.Basrawi at usdoj.gov> > Subject: White House
>> Disability Group Call: Monday Jan. 10 at 3:00
>> PM > > Dear Disability Community, > >  > > In
>> order to help keep you more informed, the White
>> House Disability Group is hosting monthly calls
>> to update you on various disability issues as
>> well as to introduce you to persons who work on
>> disability issues in the federal
>> government. > >  > > This call is off the record
>> and not for press purposes.  We strongly urge and
>> ask that you distribute this email broadly to
>> your networks and list serves so that anyone who
>> wants to participate can do so. > >  > > Our next
>> call will be Monday, January 10 at 3:00 PM
>> Eastern. > >  > > The conference call information
>> is below. > >  > > Dial in: (800) 230-1093 > >
>> Title: Disability Call (use instead of code) > >
>> Date of Call: 01/10/2011 > > Start Time: 3:00 PM
>> Eastern > > For live captioning, at time of call,
>> log onto: > >
>> http://www.fedrcc.us//Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321
>> <http://www.fedrcc.us/Enter.aspx?EventID=1679107&CustomerID=321>
>>  > >  > >  > > Again, please distribute
>> widely. > >  > > The White House ?? 1600
>> Pennsylvania Avenue, NW ?? Washington DC 20500 ?? 202-456-1111 > >  > >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net





------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:59:36 -0700
From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs
        Coming Up
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTinAP-0e_yCvWaDmqWERfRLd-r0YsHyg6dvtbiyQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Tina,

I would second everything Steve said. Also, if you are strong in math,
you could offer to be  the one in charge of calculations for your
group, as well as note-taking.

Also, if you have labs that require you to draw and label diagrams, I
think writing up a verbal description of the organisms/environments
you are working with is acceptable.

Arielle

On 1/4/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Tina,
>
> There are a lot of considerations in figuring out how you deal with this.
> Let me start by saying that when I was in school, I took a general physics
> class
> because it was an area I wanted to learn.  The instructor was not happy and
> he did not want me to take the class at all, let alone the lab.  My
> compromise
> was to take the class without the lab and receive one less credit.  After
> taking the class, which was near the beginning of my college experience, I
> learned
> about other blind people who took similar labs.  Since I took the class
> because I wanted to learn the subject, I have always regretted the fact that
> I didn't
> take the lab.  I also saw students strike up friendships in the less formal
> settings of a lab.  I say all this to contrast my response with one other
> response to
> your note that wondered why you have to do all this when he didn't.
> Probably the first thing you need to determine iswhether you want to get in
> there and
> experience what the other students are experiencing, or whether you just
> want to meet a requirement.
>
> When I read the materials, it seems that there are a lot of things you will
> be able to observe.  The rings in a tree won't be as expressive to you in
> terms of the
> information they convey, but you will likely be able to feel them, and
> probably even judge relative thicknesses with your fingernail, and while I'm
> no gardener,
> I know from firsthand experience that you will be able to tell a good deal
> about the differences in soil by feeling it.  This sounds like a set of
> courses where
> the labs contribute a lot to what is learned, and if your instructor has
> taken this time to discuss your participation with you, I have to think this
> is a good sign.
>
> Here are a couple of things that occur to me.  It appears that some of your
> activities occur in a group.  Understanding which activities are in groups
> might be
> important.  One thing that sometimes works if you are in a group or a team
> is that you might be a good person to be the taker of notes.  I don't mean
> you
> wouldn't do anything else, but some of the functions you can't easily do
> could be done by other members, but you can still feel you are pulling your
> weight by
> doing something that many others will not want to do.  Maybe you are less
> squeamish than some.  I know a blind person who won a lot of points with her
> biology lab partner because the blind person didn't mind coming into contact
> with the white rats they were observing.  Her partner couldn't handle that
> part
> of their lab and was glad to handle some of the other things that the blind
> person had some difficulty in handling.  How are you with earthworms, for
> example?  <smile>
>
> If a lot of these labs do not involve groups or teams, having someone work
> with you on some of this as a reader is also an option.  If you were to
> advertise in
> your clas that another student could earn a little something extra working
> with you while being able to get their own work done might work.  If the
> college
> has a DSS office, they may know of people who do reading who may have a
> particular interest.  In the old days, before DSS offices, advertising
> within the
> class itself or on bulletin boards did work pretty well, if the DSS office
> either can't help or doesn't play that role.
>
> Finally, establishing with the instructor what it is that he or she wants
> you to get out of this experience is important.  The instructor may not be
> concerned if
> you dot every "I" and cross every "T" if the instructor feels that you are
> making a serious effort to do what you can and that you are indeed sharing
> the
> experience and learning the basics.  Especially when students work in teams,
> the experience is never exactly the same for every student.  This will
> depend
> upon the flexibility of the instructor, and I know that some might not be
> all that helpful, but it is likely that many would be.  Make sure the
> instructor knows
> you are honestly curious.  Anyone present can tell you what color occurs
> when a chemical is poured on the soil, physically seeing that color isn't
> important
> unless you are going to make a career of this, and then there really are
> some options.  You would, in that case, talk with Mr. Supalo, the blind guy
> who has
> worked with others to develop audible instruments for measuring colors
> resulting from chemical reactions.  But you might also wonder if there is a
> sound to
> the reaction.  You might let the instructor know that you are curious about
> what you can determine by feeling the slice of the tree's rings that are
> displayed
> from a core.  There might even be some alternate experiments that you might
> be able to do to bring home some of the same points if it is important to
> you
> and the instructor.  The instructor would have to guide you on this because
> I'm just an old math major, but it occurs to me that observing soil that is
> wet and
> then observing it after it has dried for a day might yield some information
> about the makeup of the soil, maybe different information, but perhaps
> useful
> information.
>
> As you can probably tell, I hate to see blind people left out of experiences
> like this even if one can't learn every single thing in the same way as we
> would
> with sight.  I hope that there might be some ideas here that help.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 10:26:57 -0800, Tina Hansen wrote:
>
>>You probably know that during the past quarter, I have been taking an
>> environmental science course at my local community college for a General
>> Studies
> degree. I'm in the second course in the series, and there are a number of
> labs coming up that either use chemicals, or are heavily dependent on
> measurements. I don't know if the lists accept attachments, but I felt the
> best way to give people an idea of what these labs are like is to send the
> information about them that I've gotten from my instructor. The instructor
> and I are not sure how to deal with these labs, but I figured that if you
> got a look at
> them, you could give me some ideas on how I might be able to participate and
> not just sit on the sidelines. So if you have any ideas on how I might deal
> with
> these labs, I'm all ears. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


--
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 17:11:53 -0700
From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,    nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS State Division Contact Info
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTikwrjfBWYx9_nMzaoNEd1Z+N5HUR4z5_5oe_m7G at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello students,

As Washington Seminar approaches we are making a big push to ensure
that our contact list for all the NABS state student divisions is as
up-to-date as possible. To help us with this effort I would like to
request the following:

-- If you are serving as president of a state student division at this
time, please send me an email at
nabs.president at gmail.com
with your current phone number and email address. Please do this even
if you have been president for several years, just so we can be sure
your contact info is accurate.
-- If your state doesn't have a formal student division yet but you
are involved with efforts to organize one, and would like to be listed
on the NABS website as a contact for blind students in your state,
please email me your contact info.
-- Just as an early heads-up, our Washington Seminar meeting this year
will once again include the presidents' lunch. We would like to have
one representative from each state attend this meeting, even if there
is no formal division in your state. This is a good opportunity to
chat with the NABS board and other division leaders about any
questions or concerns you may have, and to exchange ideas. Also, for
the first time we will be having a breakout session dedicated to
division development issues. All are welcome to attend, even if you
are not a state division president or contact.

Thanks for your assistance, and see you in Washington!


--
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 17:21:17 -0700
From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Cc: nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Bulletin Announcements
Message-ID:
        <AANLkTiktdoyjkFGVLacPdOhjjAuNHutq9FrkhbdhfNOC at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello again,

Another NABS bulletin will be coming out soon! If you have any
announcements you would like to make before Washington Seminar, please
send them to me by the end of the week. Thanks!
Arielle

--
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:00:12 -0600
From: Greg Kearney <gkearney at gmail.com> (by way of David Andrews
        <dandrews at visi.com>)
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org,
Subject: [nabs-l] Procedure for writing Words, Music and Plain-song
        using dots  (1829) in DAISY format
Message-ID: <auto-000184924819 at mailfront2.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"

Procedure for writing Words, Music and Plain-song using dots D7769
Louis Braille's 1829 book setting out the Braille code can now be
downloaded from our library system. As this title is in the public
domain no library login is required.

This is a full text full audio DAISY digital talking book which
includes photographs of the original 1829 raised type book along with
explanatory production notes and the original footnotes. Navigation
is by section at the first navigation level as well as by the
original first edition page numbers.

The URL to the download link is as follows:

http://www.guidedogswa.org/library/openbiblio/shared/biblio_view.php?bibid=107755&tab=opac





Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media
Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA
PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100
Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au
Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America)
Email: greg.kearney at guidedogswa.com.au
Email: gkearney at gmail.com


_______________________________________________
Dtb-talk mailing list
Dtb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Dtb-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/dtb-talk_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:00:31 -0800
From: humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindTlk at nfbNet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe In Design
Message-ID: <rg001f0032PutTY05g0FQs at netzero.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello,

Is anybody familiar with Adobe In design? Is this software
accessible with screen readers like JAWS, NVDA, or some other? If
so, how accessible? Also, is this free?
Does anyone use this program? I've heard that this program is
used for publishing newspapers and books, and has anyone done
such things successfully with In Design?



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 09:00:56 -0600
From: "Carrie Gilmer" <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,    \(for parents of blind
        children\)'" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>,     "'National Association of Blind
        Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbwnews] FW: [blindlaw] Great Opinion in
        Enyart v.       NCBE
Message-ID: <4d2487ac.c9e82a0a.4663.ffff8322 at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

:)

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbwnews-bounces at nfbwis.org [mailto:nfbwnews-bounces at nfbwis.org] On
Behalf Of Hyde, David W. (ESC)
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 8:04 AM
To: 'Gorman, Mary M - DHS (Mary.Gorman at dhs.wisconsin.gov)'; 'nfb of
wisconsin (nfbwnews at nfbwis.org)'; 'mabullis at hotmail.com'
Subject: [nfbwnews] FW: [blindlaw] Great Opinion in Enyart v. NCBE

You can read this for yourself, but I'll summarize.
If it stands, and has precedent value this means that:
1. A private testing or regulatory entity cannot determine which
accommodations it will offer, and may not refuse to offer others unless they
can show that doing so would compromise the test or impose an undue
hardship.
2.The accommodations must be fitted to the person, not the person to the
accommodation.
3. Refusal to make specific accommodations can be considered irreparable
damage to the disabled person.

We'll se what happens next, but this is a most interesting ruling, and may
have implications for at least other private entities that produce tests
required for licensure.

-----Original Message-----
6From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:02 PM
To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Subject: [blindlaw] Great Opinion in Enyart v. NCBE

Friends, we secured a wonderful victory in the Enyart case.  Please find an
accessible pdf attached.  The Panel upheld Judge Breyer's original ruling
that NCBE must provide the requested accommodations of Stephanie Enyart.
Additionally, the 9th Circuit made it clear that the DOJ regulation
requiring that test administraters provide the accommodations that best
insure that a person with a disability to take  the exam on a level playing
field applies.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read,
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in
error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com,
and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments
are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. ??
2510-2521.
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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:57:48 -0500
From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] kurzweil or new docuscanPlus?
Message-ID: <4D2494FC.4060406 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi

Depending on your rrequirements you may want to save some money and buy
docuscanPlus from serotek. just go to www.docuscanplus.com its
self-voiceing and you can also install the thing on your computer. Oh
and by the way this friday they'll be taking pre-orders for the
hover-cam which works with docuscanplus. docuscanplus uses omnipage OCR.
they'll be adding foreign language recognition to it soon. why use a
camera to scan books? no debinding the book, hoverCam focuses and
adjusts for lighting automatically. best of all to scan a book just
position it under the camera and turn the pages until you're done.

Josh



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org


End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 51, Issue 4
*************************************


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  6 22:55:07 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 17:55:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland
References: <4D235DCD.6070201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <584886C9725E4841972C4D2A908E2436@Ashley>

Hi Josh,
There may be other jobs outside your county in IT; check there before moving 
to Baltimore.  But if you're serious about it, I'd recommend researching the 
area such as housing prices and transportation.  Talk to NFB members of the 
Baltimore chapter.  NFB of Maryland also has a list serve like this one and 
you can subscribe  by going to nfbnet.org.

A Baltimore newspaper will probably list jobs as well.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:50 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland


> Hi
>
> Are there lots of blind people who have jobs living in Baltimore Maryland? 
> Once I get my bachelors degree from capella university I would like to try 
> and find a job there and move there. There are no jobs in the information 
> technology field here in Berks County in the city of Reading Pennsylvania 
> Berks county Pennsylvania unfortunately. I will have to move if I want 
> work. I would like to live in a place where I could take a bus or train 
> and go to the beach frequently in the summer. Also Baltimore has an 
> aquarium with dolphins. I never saw dolphins before, was interested in 
> what they are like since I was little. I'm now 28 years old. Plus 
> Baltimore has inner harbor and its a fairly big city. Much bigger than 
> Reading PA. My wife bought me a kapten gps for christmas. I already have a 
> trekker breeze and we're short or I'm short on money this month so I'll 
> send the kapten back, get money back for it and use that money to pay for 
> my college textbooks. The trekker breeze works fine for me. its a tough 
> little deice like the nls player is made to last so is the breeze. 
> Humanware did a good job with its construction.
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 23:14:53 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 18:14:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland
In-Reply-To: <584886C9725E4841972C4D2A908E2436@Ashley>
References: <4D235DCD.6070201@gmail.com>
	<584886C9725E4841972C4D2A908E2436@Ashley>
Message-ID: <EBAC7DFB021246DF8E0FEE062968D63C@Rufus>

And, with all due respect, don't rely on your children to provide you with
assistance in running that dolphin aquarium in the future.  Surely there are
better, and quicker, alternatives.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 5:55 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland

Hi Josh,
There may be other jobs outside your county in IT; check there 
before moving 
to Baltimore.  But if you're serious about it, I'd recommend 
researching the 
area such as housing prices and transportation.  Talk to NFB 
members of the 
Baltimore chapter.  NFB of Maryland also has a list serve like 
this one and 
you can subscribe  by going to nfbnet.org.

A Baltimore newspaper will probably list jobs as well.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 12:50 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] baltimore maryland


> Hi
>
> Are there lots of blind people who have jobs living in 
Baltimore Maryland? 
> Once I get my bachelors degree from capella university I 
would like to try 
> and find a job there and move there. There are no jobs in the 
information 
> technology field here in Berks County in the city of Reading 
Pennsylvania 
> Berks county Pennsylvania unfortunately. I will have to move 
if I want 
> work. I would like to live in a place where I could take a 
bus or train 
> and go to the beach frequently in the summer. Also Baltimore has an 
> aquarium with dolphins. I never saw dolphins before, was 
interested in 
> what they are like since I was little. I'm now 28 years old. Plus 
> Baltimore has inner harbor and its a fairly big city. Much 
bigger than 
> Reading PA. My wife bought me a kapten gps for christmas. I 
already have a 
> trekker breeze and we're short or I'm short on money this 
month so I'll 
> send the kapten back, get money back for it and use that 
money to pay for 
> my college textbooks. The trekker breeze works fine for me. 
its a tough 
> little deice like the nls player is made to last so is the breeze. 
> Humanware did a good job with its construction.
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
ahb%40earthlink.net
> 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 14:27:34 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:27:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
Message-ID: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>

Hi

I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get 
a bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could 
graduate and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?


Josh


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Fri Jan  7 14:37:00 2011
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501cbae78$59922690$9560c747@BRIAN>

No just do what your doing!  Do you want to go through the headache of 
getting a BA in something that you won't use in your job or career?  You 
should enjoy college because it prepares you for the working world!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 9:27 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?


> Hi
>
> I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
> basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a 
> bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate 
> and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net 



From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Fri Jan  7 14:40:35 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:40:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E81F7D332674C719B55432C0BAF7071@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hi,

What I think is that I would get a major in what I was interested in and not 
let challenges keep me from it. Sorry if that sounds harsh because I don't 
mean for it to be, but in a career, such challenges will come up, and one 
must figure out a way to solve or get around the challenges. A reader may 
make the class accessible for you and maybe you could have someone who could 
use a raised line drawing board to draw replicas of what the screen looks 
like so you could have a mental picture of it. A scribe could insert data 
where you wished. In a class I just had, I had to do this. I had to create a 
brochure that had to look just right. To figure out how it should go and 
what should go where, I simply had my instructor show me a physical example 
and exactly where things should go. It was a computer class, and so my 
skills required me to use Word and its templates to create this brochure. To 
reach various sections, I had to use the JAWS cursor to move to text on 
which I could then select and paste appropriate information. During another 
semester, When I took my editing and production class, I had the instructor 
for the class put tape where the pictures were in the sample copy of the 
magazine the students were looking at so I could flip through the book and 
feel how, how much, and how many pictures were on the page. So if your 
future career is computers, think up ways to make it work. I remember those 
books which were called something like A Ten Minute Guide to Windows 95 that 
actually had raised diagrams in them. I think they kept updating those. 
Anyway, the diagrams you have someone help you create might be a cheaper, 
but still effective version of this. Also, try to get in touch with an 
experienced, blind computer programmer or computer computer mechanic or 
whatever and tell them what the class is, its requirements, and ask for 
their suggestions on how to solve the problem. What I am saying is don't 
give up just because a challenge pops up. Figure out sollutions; if you do 
so, you will have excellent skills to put on a resume and you will also have 
an excellent refference when you apply for a job somewhere in the future. 
Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 9:27 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?


> Hi
>
> I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
> basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a 
> bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate 
> and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From marsha.drenth at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 14:48:46 2011
From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 09:48:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E8AC33E8007B4EAA926C7472DDD2AA79@Cptr233>


Josh,

Your going to let that one course, affect that you will change majors. If
its not accessible to you in the current form, then, find some way to make
the class work. If that means finding someone who can sit with you at the
computer and do the course, then do that. A lot of things in our lives are
not accessible, but does that mean we should give up. Not to me. Means we
should try harder. If you can't figure out a course and how to make it
accessible, then when you get into a work situation, there are going to be
lots of things that are unaccessible. Don't give up so easily, you have done
all this work thus far, why change and throw it all away. If IT is your
thing, then do it. You should seriously ask the computer savvy people on the
computer science list, if anyone has taken this course and how they dealt
with it. I know of other blind folks in the IT field. 

Josh, if there is a will, there is a way!

Just my two cents for whatever its worth,
Marsha 


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 9:28 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?

Hi

I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get 
a bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could 
graduate and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?


Josh

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
l.com
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5766 (20110107) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5766 (20110107) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 15:01:37 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 07:01:37 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Mn-abs] Fw: Advisory Commission on Accessible
 Instructional Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with
 Disabilities to Meet Friday by Teleconference: Public Invited to Listen
In-Reply-To: <3A8CE761B4F34BAF90ED81FE6A8DEB77@jdunnamlap>
References: <3A8CE761B4F34BAF90ED81FE6A8DEB77@jdunnamlap>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=TkezYWR4Mj3SA9aVNFD=U2bfdpRs8MWbwzAUW@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jennifer Dunnam <jennifer.dunnam at earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:37:42 -0600
Subject: [Mn-abs] Fw: Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional
Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities to
Meet Friday by Teleconference: Public Invited to Listen
To: Minnesota Association of Blind Students List <mn-abs at nfbnet.org>


The phone number for the teleconference referenced below, to be held
this Friday (tomorrow) from 11:00 to 5:00 Eastern,  is 800-860-2442.
There will be discussion about preliminary findings on access to
postsecondary education materials, and the public is invited to
listen.

From: OSERS Office of the Assistant Secretary [mailto:OSERS.OAS at ed.gov]
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 02:17 PM
Subject: Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional Materials in
Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities to Meet Friday
by Teleconference: Public Invited to Listen







      News, Events and Updates from the Office of the Assistant Secretary
     January 6, 2011



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dear Colleagues:



I am pleased to share with you the following media advisory inviting
the public to join the Advisory Council on Accessible Instructional
Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities
during their teleconference on Friday, January 7 from 11 a.m.-5 p.m.
ET.



You may view this and other Department media advisories by visiting
http://www.ed.gov/news/media-advisories.





Sincerely,



Alexa Posny, Ph.D.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



U.S. Department of Education

Office of Communications & Outreach, Press Office

400 Maryland Ave., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20202



MEDIA ADVISORY

EVENT DATE: Friday, Jan. 7, 2011

Contact: Jim Bradshaw

(202) 401-1576 or jim.bradshaw at ed.gov




ADVISORY COMMISSION ON ACCESSIBLE INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIALS IN
POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION FOR STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES TO MEET FRIDAY
BY TELECONFERENCE: PUBLIC INVITED TO LISTEN



The Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional Materials in
Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities (AIM
Commission) invites the general public to listen in to a
teleconference discussion on preliminary findings from the
commission's legal and technology working groups. Interested
participants can access the teleconference by phone at 1-800-860-2442.



Established by the Higher Education Opportunity Act of 2008, the panel
has brought together government leaders, representatives from the
publishing industry, individuals with print disabilities (such as
those with ADD, ADHD, dyslexia and visual impairments),
representatives from two- and four-year institutions of higher
education and leaders in accessible technology.



The commission is charged with studying the current state of
accessible materials for students with disabilities in postsecondary
education and making recommendations to Congress for improving access
to and the distribution of instructional materials in manageable
formats.



For more information, see
http://www2.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/aim/index.html.  The commission
encourages public to submit comments during the meeting to
psc at cast.org or pscpublic at lists.cast.org.



WHAT:

Teleconference meeting of the Advisory Commission on Accessible
Instructional Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with
Disabilities (AIM Commission).  The public may listen at the number
listed below.


DIAL IN:

800-860-2442



WHEN:

11 a.m.-5 p.m. ET Friday, Jan. 7, 2011



# # #













-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin
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From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  7 16:54:33 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 08:54:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <796284.60174.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would like to give some input here on this topic. I think that the colleges and universities help by providing discouraging information causing us to think that we should change a major or take a different set of courses.  I know of some people who were told that the courses are not made for the blind within specific majors due to the visual timely material.  I have some of my own personal experiences where taking courses for a specific requirement has cause problems with the college’s administration especially the disabilities services center.  I was in a class that required proper interpretation basic knowledge of HTML skills.  Taking the class was not an issue; however, some of the labs and assignments were.  With out asking me how I would take the class, the director of the disabled students office was on the telephone attempting to get a special waver for the course.  I proceeded at educating the director that I could find alternate means
 and that getting a waver would hurt me in the long run since the corporate world does not give wavers.  I was faced with an up-hill battle to complete the course utilizing all resources and having an understanding professor to help evaluate my work since the DSS office refused to properly accommodate the tests saying that I should have changed my major.  This was during the period when JFW 4.0 was current; so, it was not as advanced with some of its functions and the schools adaptive PCS were using windows 95/98.  So, I would say to who ever this is happening to, never give up; but, be strong and prepared to fight a big fight if administration from the college wants you to do something easier than what you want to do.  Good luck and I hope this helps.

--- On Fri, 1/7/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 9:27 AM


Hi

I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?


Josh

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      

From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 14:59:35 2011
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 09:59:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <066E270D9F254418932281E07A260078@AnjelinaPC>

Josh,
I agree with what's already been said. I don't think there's a single major 
which wouldn't present challenges or require  some thinking outside of the 
box to meet course requirements.
You're investing time, hard work and money into a degree--why not pursue 
your interests?
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 9:27 AM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?

> Hi
>
> I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
> basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a 
> bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate 
> and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>

Anjelina 



From debbiewunder at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  7 17:31:58 2011
From: debbiewunder at earthlink.net (Debbie Wunder)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 11:31:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC><2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41>
	<129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC>
Message-ID: <9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER>

Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It is 
very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous growth 
in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and any 
suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group 
interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of a 
grassroots organization such as ours.



Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you join 
and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be working on 
that would help in getting some people involved?



I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most 
appreciated.



Thanks,

Debbie Wunder

573 874 1774 home

573 529 2008 AT&T cell



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  7 17:36:30 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 12:36:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87269E4AB9534C518DBBED1F57513FB0@Ashley>

I agree with everyone else.  Major in what is interesting to you and 
prepares you for the job market.  Find a reader to help make this class 
work.  That may be harder since its online and you're not interacting with 
classmates, but I'm sure you could find a reader by other means.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 9:27 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?


> Hi
>
> I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
> basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a 
> bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate 
> and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?
>
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  7 18:12:39 2011
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 12:12:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
References: <796284.60174.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0479B9CA6A7743C68654882D581A4C09@D3DTZP41>

Hello Josh:

     If you want to work in the IT field, then you need an IT related 
degree. There do seem to be two exceptions. I have seen internships from the 
Veterans Administration for people to do Adaptive Technology. The VA does 
want a health-related degree such as psychology.  School districts sometimes 
want people to to teach students Adaptive Technology and want a education 
related degree. In general, I wouldn't change majors. You will have classes 
that require readers, so get them out of the way and on with your life.

Regards,

Robert



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 18:54:34 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 10:54:34 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <796284.60174.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <796284.60174.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <12E04485-BC22-41DD-B6A1-011860FE69D0@gmail.com>

unfortunately my school takes action with out my beeing aware of it and by the time I find out it is way too late. I've talked to the heads of the school but they jjust don't care and now that they are cutting staff and departments they really don't care.

Take care.

S
On Jan 7, 2011, at 8:54 AM, William ODonnell wrote:

> I would like to give some input here on this topic. I think that the colleges and universities help by providing discouraging information causing us to think that we should change a major or take a different set of courses.  I know of some people who were told that the courses are not made for the blind within specific majors due to the visual timely material.  I have some of my own personal experiences where taking courses for a specific requirement has cause problems with the college’s administration especially the disabilities services center.  I was in a class that required proper interpretation basic knowledge of HTML skills.  Taking the class was not an issue; however, some of the labs and assignments were.  With out asking me how I would take the class, the director of the disabled students office was on the telephone attempting to get a special waver for the course.  I proceeded at educating the director that I could find alternate means
> and that getting a waver would hurt me in the long run since the corporate world does not give wavers.  I was faced with an up-hill battle to complete the course utilizing all resources and having an understanding professor to help evaluate my work since the DSS office refused to properly accommodate the tests saying that I should have changed my major.  This was during the period when JFW 4.0 was current; so, it was not as advanced with some of its functions and the schools adaptive PCS were using windows 95/98.  So, I would say to who ever this is happening to, never give up; but, be strong and prepared to fight a big fight if administration from the college wants you to do something easier than what you want to do.  Good luck and I hope this helps.
> 
> --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 9:27 AM
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?
> 
> 
> Josh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Fri Jan  7 19:26:56 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:26:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
In-Reply-To: <9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC><2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41>
	<129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC>
	<9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER>
Message-ID: <7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hello,

I'm Anita, and I don't live in Missouri. However, I am 33, but I joined when 
I was in my twenties because I felt it was important for students to have 
their textbooks in Braille and I wanted to assist with that. I am hoping 
that Braille will become a priority for college students and working 
students now, but I realize that will take time. The other reason I went was 
to be around other blind people. Can your group do activities, such as 
bowling, games, or etc. that might bring people into it? The other thought I 
have is the availability of transportation for blind people in your area. 
Unfortunately, that is not the case in my area, and our bus system does not 
function after 5. Our meetings are in the evenings and are not over in time 
for me to catch a bus. Actually, they aren't even started prior to the bus 
stopping. So that may be another concern combined with lack of blindness 
skills training. Is their a driver who could pick people up. Door prizes 
might also work. Just some thoughts. Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people


> Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It is 
> very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous 
> growth in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and any 
> suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group 
> interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of a 
> grassroots organization such as ours.
>
>
>
> Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you join 
> and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be working on 
> that would help in getting some people involved?
>
>
>
> I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most 
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Debbie Wunder
>
> 573 874 1774 home
>
> 573 529 2008 AT&T cell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 19:43:15 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:43:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests
Message-ID: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>

Hi

I did some job searching. My main career goal is to be a helpdesk or 
helpdesk/tech support person making $35000 to $40000 per year. Either 
that or training blind people in assistive technology. I already have 
lots of experience in tech support and training due to having mostly 
friends who are blind. Here where I live most my friends are either 
blind. I do have sighted friends but they are older retired people mid 
60s 70s and 80s. I'm only 28. Also guys what do you think of the website 
www.instantdegrees.com ? upon reading the faq and other info there do 
you think it is legitimate? could I get a job after purchasing from that 
website www.instantdegrees.com ? take a look at it and let me know what 
your thoughts are.

Josh


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:07:01 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 12:07:01 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTUvesvmVUtf-_9f853Kx1FHnKwh4vwysb6_N8@mail.gmail.com>

Hey folks,

I am dealing with a spread sheet of names and such and am looking to
alphibetize them in Excel, might anyone have any ideas on how to sort
them as I would intend to?
  Thanks so much in  advance!
  Darian

-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:07:35 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:07:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests
In-Reply-To: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>
References: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F172DBD3DCD14D0BAE939FB0D728E5B7@Rufus>

Josh,

It sounds to me as though you are more focused on getting the career without
giving too much attention to your degree.  A degree isn't a pass card to
land a job.  In fact, many people find it difficult to find a job even with
a degree, so you really have to milk your degree for all it's worth to
really know your field and ensure you are competitive against the hundreds
of people that apply for any one position.  To that end, I'm not sure where
this nonsense of psychology fits anywhere.  In due course I will be looking
for someone to add to my company with the ability to handle web design and
database management, and I assure you psychology will not be a key qualifier
for me.  I already know I'm crazy. LOL

Seriously, this may sound harsh.  Yet, I think you're setting yourself up
for failure.  Helping friends fix their technical issues is nice but is not
tangible experience.  Volunteer for an organization where you can document
your work and walk away with a reference or two.  And, remember that just
because you're interested in adaptive technology, this does not mean the job
will be any easier to land.  As you have already discovered, degrees are
preferred, and my own opinion, relevant degrees are even better so that I,
as a potential future customer, can trust that the representative on the
other end of the line is fully competent to discuss all the issues related
to my problem if my inquiry is related to technical support.  If I'm a
student, I want to ensure the teacher knows more than I do, not the other
way around as was sadly the case in a recent experience.

I'm still scratching my head over this business of dolphins.  Maybe the
first step is to sit down and really figure out what it is you want out of
life.  Don't feel compelled to enter a career because anyone is pressuring
you.  If you can figure out your true ambition, your studies are going to be
much more enjoyable, and you will feel more motivated to find a way to get
around inaccessible Microsoft products.  Trust me, the accessibility
problems will never go away.  I consider myself to be just shy of an
advanced computer user, and I still go back and forth with our office on our
stupid file exchange network.

Finally, if you have to ask whether InstantDegrees.com is a credible
educational institution, you've got a lot of work ahead of you my friend.
It's a diploma mill.  I've seen your posts where you've checked out several
different options for your education.  Pick one, suck it up and stick to it!

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:43 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests

Hi

I did some job searching. My main career goal is to be a helpdesk or 
helpdesk/tech support person making $35000 to $40000 per year. Either 
that or training blind people in assistive technology. I already have 
lots of experience in tech support and training due to having mostly 
friends who are blind. Here where I live most my friends are either 
blind. I do have sighted friends but they are older retired people mid 
60s 70s and 80s. I'm only 28. Also guys what do you think of 
the website 
www.instantdegrees.com ? upon reading the faq and other info there do 
you think it is legitimate? could I get a job after purchasing 
from that 
website www.instantdegrees.com ? take a look at it and let me know what 
your thoughts are.

Josh

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:11:36 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:11:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] final decision
Message-ID: <4D277378.2030806@gmail.com>

Hi

I decided to take this next winter quarter off. Taking off will give me 
and the college time to better prepare and for me to have all my 
materials at the same time sighted people do, and furthermore to have 
them in a accessible format.

Josh


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:12:16 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:12:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests
In-Reply-To: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>
References: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <465F9B9DA51D483187123325639BCDFC@Rufus>

Crap, I meant to send that off-list, but if I'm already in trouble for
borderline flaming, I may as well add that I should hope people are aiming
for salaries higher than 40K, especially in the technology field where it is
not unreasonable to demand twice the amount with the right credentials.  I
thought you'd done job searching?

Anyway, my apologies all around for potentially being an ass.  There goes my
first New Year's resolution...

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:13:22 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:13:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikTUvesvmVUtf-_9f853Kx1FHnKwh4vwysb6_N8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikTUvesvmVUtf-_9f853Kx1FHnKwh4vwysb6_N8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C42A608B9D246269A07DB8F57A5F18D@Rufus>

What version of Excel are you using?  I can help if it's 2003.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files

Hey folks,

I am dealing with a spread sheet of names and such and am looking to
alphibetize them in Excel, might anyone have any ideas on how to sort
them as I would intend to?
  Thanks so much in  advance!
  Darian

-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  7 20:18:35 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 12:18:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <12E04485-BC22-41DD-B6A1-011860FE69D0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <403920.61259.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


As a whole, I think that blind people need to consider making plans on leaving America. We need to break the cycle of sub-standard careers and living since we are first affected by government’s cutbacks and last thought of in major political decisions.  
 
--- On Fri, 1/7/11, Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] switching majors?
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 1:54 PM


unfortunately my school takes action with out my beeing aware of it and by the time I find out it is way too late. I've talked to the heads of the school but they jjust don't care and now that they are cutting staff and departments they really don't care.

Take care.

S
On Jan 7, 2011, at 8:54 AM, William ODonnell wrote:

> I would like to give some input here on this topic. I think that the colleges and universities help by providing discouraging information causing us to think that we should change a major or take a different set of courses.  I know of some people who were told that the courses are not made for the blind within specific majors due to the visual timely material.  I have some of my own personal experiences where taking courses for a specific requirement has cause problems with the college’s administration especially the disabilities services center.  I was in a class that required proper interpretation basic knowledge of HTML skills.  Taking the class was not an issue; however, some of the labs and assignments were.  With out asking me how I would take the class, the director of the disabled students office was on the telephone attempting to get a special waver for the course.  I proceeded at educating the director that I could find alternate
 means
> and that getting a waver would hurt me in the long run since the corporate world does not give wavers.  I was faced with an up-hill battle to complete the course utilizing all resources and having an understanding professor to help evaluate my work since the DSS office refused to properly accommodate the tests saying that I should have changed my major.  This was during the period when JFW 4.0 was current; so, it was not as advanced with some of its functions and the schools adaptive PCS were using windows 95/98.  So, I would say to who ever this is happening to, never give up; but, be strong and prepared to fight a big fight if administration from the college wants you to do something easier than what you want to do.  Good luck and I hope this helps.
> 
> --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 9:27 AM
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?
> 
> 
> Josh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      

From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Fri Jan  7 20:19:58 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:19:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests
In-Reply-To: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000026349867@mailback1.g2host.com>

Josh,

I went to the site and listened to the presentation, and I am extremely skeptical.  You simply can't get an instant degree that is worth anything unless they 
are able to take credits you have earned and get them applied toward a degree somehow.  A Google search turned up an article that says 
instantdegrees.com gets its degrees from Buxton University which is located outside the United states and is said not to be accredited in the United States.  
You can look at

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2007/apr/05/diploma-mills-deserve-their-own-rankings/

if you are curious.  There is also a Wikipedia entry at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buxton_University

which fills in the picture.  These are both on the first page returned from a Google search,.  If something sounds too good to be true, it almost always is, so 
always do research.  Besides, how do you think you would do a job if you didn't have the knowledge your degree says you have?  Sure, not all jobs use all 
of one's degree, but you would certainly use some of the training applied in a degree.

On another subject in your note, it is good to have an idea of what you want to do, but there are only so many help desk jobs to help blind persons.  I would 
probably want to think more broadly if I were you as you get your training.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:43:15 -0500, Josh Kennedy wrote:

>Hi

>I did some job searching. My main career goal is to be a helpdesk or 
>helpdesk/tech support person making $35000 to $40000 per year. Either 
>that or training blind people in assistive technology. I already have 
>lots of experience in tech support and training due to having mostly 
>friends who are blind. Here where I live most my friends are either 
>blind. I do have sighted friends but they are older retired people mid 
>60s 70s and 80s. I'm only 28. Also guys what do you think of the website 
>www.instantdegrees.com ? upon reading the faq and other info there do 
>you think it is legitimate? could I get a job after purchasing from that 
>website www.instantdegrees.com ? take a look at it and let me know what 
>your thoughts are.

>Josh

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:21:37 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 12:21:37 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
In-Reply-To: <4C42A608B9D246269A07DB8F57A5F18D@Rufus>
References: <AANLkTikTUvesvmVUtf-_9f853Kx1FHnKwh4vwysb6_N8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C42A608B9D246269A07DB8F57A5F18D@Rufus>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=tf4VSewT6HKJT+=SKdi-wa+5PwmH2kn-1HVb9@mail.gmail.com>

It is 2003

On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> What version of Excel are you using?  I can help if it's 2003.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:07 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>
> Hey folks,
>
> I am dealing with a spread sheet of names and such and am looking to
> alphibetize them in Excel, might anyone have any ideas on how to sort
> them as I would intend to?
>   Thanks so much in  advance!
>   Darian
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
>
> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:24:06 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:24:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <403920.61259.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <12E04485-BC22-41DD-B6A1-011860FE69D0@gmail.com>
	<403920.61259.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6163DE7EA6344D35A1CAA2AB2DB4091E@Rufus>

William,

What country boasts more blind educated and gainfully employed people?

Joe

“Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William ODonnell
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] switching majors?


As a whole, I think that blind people need to consider making 
plans on leaving America. We need to break the cycle of 
sub-standard careers and living since we are first affected by 
government’s cutbacks and last thought of in major political 
decisions.  
 
--- On Fri, 1/7/11, Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] switching majors?
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 1:54 PM


unfortunately my school takes action with out my beeing aware 
of it and by the time I find out it is way too late. I've 
talked to the heads of the school but they jjust don't care and 
now that they are cutting staff and departments they really don't care.

Take care.

S
On Jan 7, 2011, at 8:54 AM, William ODonnell wrote:

> I would like to give some input here on this topic. I think 
that the colleges and universities help by providing 
discouraging information causing us to think that we should 
change a major or take a different set of courses.  I know of 
some people who were told that the courses are not made for the 
blind within specific majors due to the visual timely material. 
 I have some of my own personal experiences where taking 
courses for a specific requirement has cause problems with the 
college’s administration especially the disabilities services 
center.  I was in a class that required proper interpretation 
basic knowledge of HTML skills.  Taking the class was not an 
issue; however, some of the labs and assignments were.  With 
out asking me how I would take the class, the director of the 
disabled students office was on the telephone attempting to get 
a special waver for the course.  I proceeded at educating the 
director that I could find alternate
 means
> and that getting a waver would hurt me in the long run since 
the corporate world does not give wavers.  I was faced with an 
up-hill battle to complete the course utilizing all resources 
and having an understanding professor to help evaluate my work 
since the DSS office refused to properly accommodate the tests 
saying that I should have changed my major.  This was during 
the period when JFW 4.0 was current; so, it was not as advanced 
with some of its functions and the schools adaptive PCS were 
using windows 95/98.  So, I would say to who ever this is 
happening to, never give up; but, be strong and prepared to 
fight a big fight if administration from the college wants you 
to do something easier than what you want to do.  Good luck and 
I hope this helps.
> 
> --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 9:27 AM
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft 
project will basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to 
switch majors and get a bachelors in psychology just to get a 
bachelors degree if I could graduate and still work in the IT 
field with that degree? What do you think?
> 
> 
> Josh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.
odonnell1%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12
%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.
odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:29:16 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:29:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=tf4VSewT6HKJT+=SKdi-wa+5PwmH2kn-1HVb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikTUvesvmVUtf-_9f853Kx1FHnKwh4vwysb6_N8@mail.gmail.com><4C42A608B9D246269A07DB8F57A5F18D@Rufus>
	<AANLkTi=tf4VSewT6HKJT+=SKdi-wa+5PwmH2kn-1HVb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F91F764B954D4B0D86611E792271ACB7@Rufus>

1. Activate the Data menu with Alt + D.

2. Enter on Sort.

3. Say "yes" to the warning about expanding selection.  This is so that all
your other columns will be synchronized.

4. Pick the column you want to sort.  Tab and pick whether you want
ascending or descending.  Make sure to check the box for the Header row,
unless you want the top row to be sorted as well.

5. Enter on OK, and you're in business.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: Darian Smith [mailto:dsmithnfb at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:22 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] .XLS files

It is 2003

On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> What version of Excel are you using?  I can help if it's 2003.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up 
their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:07 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>
> Hey folks,
>
> I am dealing with a spread sheet of names and such and am looking to
> alphibetize them in Excel, might anyone have any ideas on how to sort
> them as I would intend to?
>   Thanks so much in  advance!
>   Darian
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
>
> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf
b%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin



From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Fri Jan  7 20:37:27 2011
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:37:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests
References: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301cbaeaa$b35d4a60$9560c747@BRIAN>

Why don't you make some sighted friends in their 20's and 30's! What part of 
Reading are you living in?  My friend is from Hamburg!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:43 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests


> Hi
>
> I did some job searching. My main career goal is to be a helpdesk or 
> helpdesk/tech support person making $35000 to $40000 per year. Either that 
> or training blind people in assistive technology. I already have lots of 
> experience in tech support and training due to having mostly friends who 
> are blind. Here where I live most my friends are either blind. I do have 
> sighted friends but they are older retired people mid 60s 70s and 80s. I'm 
> only 28. Also guys what do you think of the website www.instantdegrees.com 
> ? upon reading the faq and other info there do you think it is legitimate? 
> could I get a job after purchasing from that website 
> www.instantdegrees.com ? take a look at it and let me know what your 
> thoughts are.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net 



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 20:38:30 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:38:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] taking off
Message-ID: <4D2779C6.6010400@gmail.com>

Hi

The best thing is for me to take off this quarter to better prepare, 
which I already have done. Oh I'm not giving up believe me! Furthermore 
I don't think using instantdegrees.com to take the easy way out is the 
solution either. I'm sticking with capella just taking this quarter off 
to better plan my program. that's all.

Josh


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 22:31:47 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 14:31:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
In-Reply-To: <F91F764B954D4B0D86611E792271ACB7@Rufus>
References: <AANLkTikTUvesvmVUtf-_9f853Kx1FHnKwh4vwysb6_N8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C42A608B9D246269A07DB8F57A5F18D@Rufus>
	<AANLkTi=tf4VSewT6HKJT+=SKdi-wa+5PwmH2kn-1HVb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<F91F764B954D4B0D86611E792271ACB7@Rufus>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=UGSAo7mNi88Rz3dy8M7Z8YAWt8fcqq=eXWVaZ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks so much, Joe!   and that, my friends is  the beauty of  list
serves! *smile*

On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. Activate the Data menu with Alt + D.
>
> 2. Enter on Sort.
>
> 3. Say "yes" to the warning about expanding selection.  This is so that all
> your other columns will be synchronized.
>
> 4. Pick the column you want to sort.  Tab and pick whether you want
> ascending or descending.  Make sure to check the box for the Header row,
> unless you want the top row to be sorted as well.
>
> 5. Enter on OK, and you're in business.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darian Smith [mailto:dsmithnfb at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:22 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>
> It is 2003
>
> On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What version of Excel are you using?  I can help if it's 2003.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
> their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:07 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> I am dealing with a spread sheet of names and such and am looking to
>> alphibetize them in Excel, might anyone have any ideas on how to sort
>> them as I would intend to?
>>   Thanks so much in  advance!
>>   Darian
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>>
>> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
>> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf
> b%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
>
> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 23:15:16 2011
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 17:15:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
In-Reply-To: <7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC>
	<2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41>
	<129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC>
	<9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER>
	<7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=YAEwFTiCyeq=grGhEdov52AcTY0TJLyo+7t+=@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Debbie.  My name is Julie, and I am a member of the St. Louis
chapter.  There are a small group of us "young people" who would like
to work building the student division back up in Missouri.  I am
currently a colege student, and I would like to do what I can to help
recruit more young people and students.  You can email me off list if
you would like.

kaybaycar at gmail.com

Thanks

On 1/7/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm Anita, and I don't live in Missouri. However, I am 33, but I joined when
> I was in my twenties because I felt it was important for students to have
> their textbooks in Braille and I wanted to assist with that. I am hoping
> that Braille will become a priority for college students and working
> students now, but I realize that will take time. The other reason I went was
> to be around other blind people. Can your group do activities, such as
> bowling, games, or etc. that might bring people into it? The other thought I
> have is the availability of transportation for blind people in your area.
> Unfortunately, that is not the case in my area, and our bus system does not
> function after 5. Our meetings are in the evenings and are not over in time
> for me to catch a bus. Actually, they aren't even started prior to the bus
> stopping. So that may be another concern combined with lack of blindness
> skills training. Is their a driver who could pick people up. Door prizes
> might also work. Just some thoughts. Anita
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>
>
>> Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It is
>> very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous
>> growth in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and any
>> suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group
>> interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of a
>> grassroots organization such as ours.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you join
>>
>> and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be working on
>>
>> that would help in getting some people involved?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Debbie Wunder
>>
>> 573 874 1774 home
>>
>> 573 529 2008 AT&T cell
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan  8 00:23:35 2011
From: christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net (christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:23:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=YAEwFTiCyeq=grGhEdov52AcTY0TJLyo+7t+=@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC><2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41><129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC><9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER><7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC>
	<AANLkTi=YAEwFTiCyeq=grGhEdov52AcTY0TJLyo+7t+=@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E3D0F1870EC480FBB36A86F560064C7@ChristineTHINK>

Hi Debbie,

I'm a friend of Julie's and also one of the people in St. Louis who is 
interested in helping to build the Missouri student division and recruit 
younger members. You can e-mail me off list as well if you would like:

christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net

Christine Parsons



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:15 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people

> Hi Debbie.  My name is Julie, and I am a member of the St. Louis
> chapter.  There are a small group of us "young people" who would like
> to work building the student division back up in Missouri.  I am
> currently a colege student, and I would like to do what I can to help
> recruit more young people and students.  You can email me off list if
> you would like.
>
> kaybaycar at gmail.com
>
> Thanks
>
> On 1/7/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm Anita, and I don't live in Missouri. However, I am 33, but I joined 
>> when
>> I was in my twenties because I felt it was important for students to have
>> their textbooks in Braille and I wanted to assist with that. I am hoping
>> that Braille will become a priority for college students and working
>> students now, but I realize that will take time. The other reason I went 
>> was
>> to be around other blind people. Can your group do activities, such as
>> bowling, games, or etc. that might bring people into it? The other 
>> thought I
>> have is the availability of transportation for blind people in your area.
>> Unfortunately, that is not the case in my area, and our bus system does 
>> not
>> function after 5. Our meetings are in the evenings and are not over in 
>> time
>> for me to catch a bus. Actually, they aren't even started prior to the 
>> bus
>> stopping. So that may be another concern combined with lack of blindness
>> skills training. Is their a driver who could pick people up. Door prizes
>> might also work. Just some thoughts. Anita
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>>
>>
>>> Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It 
>>> is
>>> very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous
>>> growth in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and 
>>> any
>>> suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group
>>> interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of a
>>> grassroots organization such as ours.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you 
>>> join
>>>
>>> and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be working 
>>> on
>>>
>>> that would help in getting some people involved?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Debbie Wunder
>>>
>>> 573 874 1774 home
>>>
>>> 573 529 2008 AT&T cell
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
> Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christine-parsons%40sbcglobal.net 



From kramc11 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 00:30:20 2011
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 19:30:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
In-Reply-To: <7E3D0F1870EC480FBB36A86F560064C7@ChristineTHINK>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC><2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41><129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC><9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER><7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC><AANLkTi=YAEwFTiCyeq=grGhEdov52AcTY0TJLyo+7t+=@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E3D0F1870EC480FBB36A86F560064C7@ChristineTHINK>
Message-ID: <216A84242130481595368271D4E53EBF@SonyPC>

I am the secretary of the Massachusetts Association of Blind Students 
division. I created a facebook page and have 28 members. Most of them haven't 
gone to a meeting, but that's no fault of there's. We haven't had a meeting 
since the creation of the page, but hopefully when we do have the next 
meeting, many of them will show up.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people


> Hi Debbie,
>
> I'm a friend of Julie's and also one of the people in St. Louis who is 
> interested in helping to build the Missouri student division and recruit 
> younger members. You can e-mail me off list as well if you would like:
>
> christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net
>
> Christine Parsons
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:15 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>
>> Hi Debbie.  My name is Julie, and I am a member of the St. Louis
>> chapter.  There are a small group of us "young people" who would like
>> to work building the student division back up in Missouri.  I am
>> currently a colege student, and I would like to do what I can to help
>> recruit more young people and students.  You can email me off list if
>> you would like.
>>
>> kaybaycar at gmail.com
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On 1/7/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm Anita, and I don't live in Missouri. However, I am 33, but I joined 
>>> when
>>> I was in my twenties because I felt it was important for students to 
>>> have
>>> their textbooks in Braille and I wanted to assist with that. I am hoping
>>> that Braille will become a priority for college students and working
>>> students now, but I realize that will take time. The other reason I went 
>>> was
>>> to be around other blind people. Can your group do activities, such as
>>> bowling, games, or etc. that might bring people into it? The other 
>>> thought I
>>> have is the availability of transportation for blind people in your 
>>> area.
>>> Unfortunately, that is not the case in my area, and our bus system does 
>>> not
>>> function after 5. Our meetings are in the evenings and are not over in 
>>> time
>>> for me to catch a bus. Actually, they aren't even started prior to the 
>>> bus
>>> stopping. So that may be another concern combined with lack of blindness
>>> skills training. Is their a driver who could pick people up. Door prizes
>>> might also work. Just some thoughts. Anita
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It 
>>>> is
>>>> very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous
>>>> growth in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and 
>>>> any
>>>> suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group
>>>> interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of 
>>>> a
>>>> grassroots organization such as ours.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you 
>>>> join
>>>>
>>>> and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be working 
>>>> on
>>>>
>>>> that would help in getting some people involved?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Debbie Wunder
>>>>
>>>> 573 874 1774 home
>>>>
>>>> 573 529 2008 AT&T cell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christine-parsons%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com 



From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  8 00:42:05 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 19:42:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
In-Reply-To: <216A84242130481595368271D4E53EBF@SonyPC>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC><2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41><129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC><9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER><7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC><AANLkTi=YAEwFTiCyeq=grGhEdov52AcTY0TJLyo+7t+=@mail.gmail.com><7E3D0F1870EC480FBB36A86F560064C7@ChristineTHINK>
	<216A84242130481595368271D4E53EBF@SonyPC>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS16EC7311BFD566BB76D9808B0C0@phx.gbl>

?
I am a board member of the New York devision we started very small and 
basically only with the officers.  The biggest way to get members is through 
social networking and also getting out in the camunity including bars, 
clubs, social events and  in any of your dayly activities.  The other way is 
by calling campuses and giving them your information instead of asking for 
students info to pass out about the NFB as well as your state devision.
Rob Blachowicz

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark J. Cadigan
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people

I am the secretary of the Massachusetts Association of Blind Students
division. I created a facebook page and have 28 members. Most of them 
haven't
gone to a meeting, but that's no fault of there's. We haven't had a meeting
since the creation of the page, but hopefully when we do have the next
meeting, many of them will show up.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people


> Hi Debbie,
>
> I'm a friend of Julie's and also one of the people in St. Louis who is 
> interested in helping to build the Missouri student division and recruit 
> younger members. You can e-mail me off list as well if you would like:
>
> christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net
>
> Christine Parsons
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:15 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>
>> Hi Debbie.  My name is Julie, and I am a member of the St. Louis
>> chapter.  There are a small group of us "young people" who would like
>> to work building the student division back up in Missouri.  I am
>> currently a colege student, and I would like to do what I can to help
>> recruit more young people and students.  You can email me off list if
>> you would like.
>>
>> kaybaycar at gmail.com
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On 1/7/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm Anita, and I don't live in Missouri. However, I am 33, but I joined 
>>> when
>>> I was in my twenties because I felt it was important for students to 
>>> have
>>> their textbooks in Braille and I wanted to assist with that. I am hoping
>>> that Braille will become a priority for college students and working
>>> students now, but I realize that will take time. The other reason I went 
>>> was
>>> to be around other blind people. Can your group do activities, such as
>>> bowling, games, or etc. that might bring people into it? The other 
>>> thought I
>>> have is the availability of transportation for blind people in your 
>>> area.
>>> Unfortunately, that is not the case in my area, and our bus system does 
>>> not
>>> function after 5. Our meetings are in the evenings and are not over in 
>>> time
>>> for me to catch a bus. Actually, they aren't even started prior to the 
>>> bus
>>> stopping. So that may be another concern combined with lack of blindness
>>> skills training. Is their a driver who could pick people up. Door prizes
>>> might also work. Just some thoughts. Anita
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It 
>>>> is
>>>> very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous
>>>> growth in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and 
>>>> any
>>>> suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group
>>>> interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of 
>>>> a
>>>> grassroots organization such as ours.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you 
>>>> join
>>>>
>>>> and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be working 
>>>> on
>>>>
>>>> that would help in getting some people involved?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Debbie Wunder
>>>>
>>>> 573 874 1774 home
>>>>
>>>> 573 529 2008 AT&T cell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christine-parsons%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 01:04:36 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 17:04:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
In-Reply-To: <BAY130-DS16EC7311BFD566BB76D9808B0C0@phx.gbl>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC>
	<2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41>
	<129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC>
	<9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER>
	<7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC>
	<AANLkTi=YAEwFTiCyeq=grGhEdov52AcTY0TJLyo+7t+=@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E3D0F1870EC480FBB36A86F560064C7@ChristineTHINK>
	<216A84242130481595368271D4E53EBF@SonyPC>
	<BAY130-DS16EC7311BFD566BB76D9808B0C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinnHdf=C70Y1TJSGf6mXeRtg=4apwz3=DQESwmU@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,
  I think one thing that   was always a big thing for me when I was
younger was navigating the contentious issues  that  we tend to have
stuck with us in the NFB. "Why does the NFB feel so strongly about not
taking assistance?" or "am I less a blind person because I read large
print" or "am I not welcomed because I use a guide dog?"  "what's the
big idea of   the training centers anyway"   then there is a whole
different question  of "who can take on  leadership in the NFB? "
obviously, these questions are contentious, as I have stated earlier,
but  I think those are questions that if approached in a way that
doesn't push people away, that can help hugely.  Over the past year,
nabs has  touched on everything from dating and relationships, to  the
S.T.E.M field, guide dogs and canes.  Just showing that we all look at
the big peature  the same, but probably look at it from different
angels. I think it's that deversity that keeps  the student division i
in this case,  lively and active.

On 1/7/11, Rob Blachowicz <rob_blach at hotmail.com> wrote:
> ?
> I am a board member of the New York devision we started very small and
> basically only with the officers.  The biggest way to get members is through
> social networking and also getting out in the camunity including bars,
> clubs, social events and  in any of your dayly activities.  The other way is
> by calling campuses and giving them your information instead of asking for
> students info to pass out about the NFB as well as your state devision.
> Rob Blachowicz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark J. Cadigan
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>
> I am the secretary of the Massachusetts Association of Blind Students
> division. I created a facebook page and have 28 members. Most of them
> haven't
> gone to a meeting, but that's no fault of there's. We haven't had a meeting
> since the creation of the page, but hopefully when we do have the next
> meeting, many of them will show up.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>
>
>> Hi Debbie,
>>
>> I'm a friend of Julie's and also one of the people in St. Louis who is
>> interested in helping to build the Missouri student division and recruit
>> younger members. You can e-mail me off list as well if you would like:
>>
>> christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net
>>
>> Christine Parsons
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:15 PM
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>>
>>> Hi Debbie.  My name is Julie, and I am a member of the St. Louis
>>> chapter.  There are a small group of us "young people" who would like
>>> to work building the student division back up in Missouri.  I am
>>> currently a colege student, and I would like to do what I can to help
>>> recruit more young people and students.  You can email me off list if
>>> you would like.
>>>
>>> kaybaycar at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On 1/7/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I'm Anita, and I don't live in Missouri. However, I am 33, but I joined
>>>> when
>>>> I was in my twenties because I felt it was important for students to
>>>> have
>>>> their textbooks in Braille and I wanted to assist with that. I am hoping
>>>> that Braille will become a priority for college students and working
>>>> students now, but I realize that will take time. The other reason I went
>>>>
>>>> was
>>>> to be around other blind people. Can your group do activities, such as
>>>> bowling, games, or etc. that might bring people into it? The other
>>>> thought I
>>>> have is the availability of transportation for blind people in your
>>>> area.
>>>> Unfortunately, that is not the case in my area, and our bus system does
>>>> not
>>>> function after 5. Our meetings are in the evenings and are not over in
>>>> time
>>>> for me to catch a bus. Actually, they aren't even started prior to the
>>>> bus
>>>> stopping. So that may be another concern combined with lack of blindness
>>>> skills training. Is their a driver who could pick people up. Door prizes
>>>> might also work. Just some thoughts. Anita
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It
>>>>> is
>>>>> very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous
>>>>> growth in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and
>>>>> any
>>>>> suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group
>>>>> interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of
>>>>> a
>>>>> grassroots organization such as ours.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you
>>>>> join
>>>>>
>>>>> and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be working
>>>>>
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>> that would help in getting some people involved?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most
>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Debbie Wunder
>>>>>
>>>>> 573 874 1774 home
>>>>>
>>>>> 573 529 2008 AT&T cell
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christine-parsons%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  8 01:14:35 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 20:14:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinnHdf=C70Y1TJSGf6mXeRtg=4apwz3=DQESwmU@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77C0F407A1CE4E2382C25C06247948D1@MikealaPC><2DF137C8F4E14D83BF6C5EC72104E987@D3DTZP41><129BF2E4BA014A54AC10897AB32B7B5F@MikealaPC><9A4BFCD46A1D4E69B4330682BE55BBE4@DEBBIECOMPUTER><7538AE992E004DD1B54A21A08F3907D1@AnitaAdkinsPC><AANLkTi=YAEwFTiCyeq=grGhEdov52AcTY0TJLyo+7t+=@mail.gmail.com><7E3D0F1870EC480FBB36A86F560064C7@ChristineTHINK><216A84242130481595368271D4E53EBF@SonyPC><BAY130-DS16EC7311BFD566BB76D9808B0C0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTinnHdf=C70Y1TJSGf6mXeRtg=4apwz3=DQESwmU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS369D62813067DDA2D31948B0C0@phx.gbl>

?
I'll agree with you on that greatly.  Bringing up issues in a constructive 
way that people question the NFB about is a good way to change peoples 
misconseptions about our mission aand that we are a diverse group from all 
walks of life.
Rob Blachowicz
-----Original Message----- 
From: Darian Smith
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 8:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people

Hi List,
  I think one thing that   was always a big thing for me when I was
younger was navigating the contentious issues  that  we tend to have
stuck with us in the NFB. "Why does the NFB feel so strongly about not
taking assistance?" or "am I less a blind person because I read large
print" or "am I not welcomed because I use a guide dog?"  "what's the
big idea of   the training centers anyway"   then there is a whole
different question  of "who can take on  leadership in the NFB? "
obviously, these questions are contentious, as I have stated earlier,
but  I think those are questions that if approached in a way that
doesn't push people away, that can help hugely.  Over the past year,
nabs has  touched on everything from dating and relationships, to  the
S.T.E.M field, guide dogs and canes.  Just showing that we all look at
the big peature  the same, but probably look at it from different
angels. I think it's that deversity that keeps  the student division i
in this case,  lively and active.

On 1/7/11, Rob Blachowicz <rob_blach at hotmail.com> wrote:
> ?
> I am a board member of the New York devision we started very small and
> basically only with the officers.  The biggest way to get members is 
> through
> social networking and also getting out in the camunity including bars,
> clubs, social events and  in any of your dayly activities.  The other way 
> is
> by calling campuses and giving them your information instead of asking for
> students info to pass out about the NFB as well as your state devision.
> Rob Blachowicz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark J. Cadigan
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>
> I am the secretary of the Massachusetts Association of Blind Students
> division. I created a facebook page and have 28 members. Most of them
> haven't
> gone to a meeting, but that's no fault of there's. We haven't had a 
> meeting
> since the creation of the page, but hopefully when we do have the next
> meeting, many of them will show up.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 7:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>
>
>> Hi Debbie,
>>
>> I'm a friend of Julie's and also one of the people in St. Louis who is
>> interested in helping to build the Missouri student division and recruit
>> younger members. You can e-mail me off list as well if you would like:
>>
>> christine-parsons at sbcglobal.net
>>
>> Christine Parsons
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:15 PM
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>>
>>> Hi Debbie.  My name is Julie, and I am a member of the St. Louis
>>> chapter.  There are a small group of us "young people" who would like
>>> to work building the student division back up in Missouri.  I am
>>> currently a colege student, and I would like to do what I can to help
>>> recruit more young people and students.  You can email me off list if
>>> you would like.
>>>
>>> kaybaycar at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On 1/7/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I'm Anita, and I don't live in Missouri. However, I am 33, but I joined
>>>> when
>>>> I was in my twenties because I felt it was important for students to
>>>> have
>>>> their textbooks in Braille and I wanted to assist with that. I am 
>>>> hoping
>>>> that Braille will become a priority for college students and working
>>>> students now, but I realize that will take time. The other reason I 
>>>> went
>>>>
>>>> was
>>>> to be around other blind people. Can your group do activities, such as
>>>> bowling, games, or etc. that might bring people into it? The other
>>>> thought I
>>>> have is the availability of transportation for blind people in your
>>>> area.
>>>> Unfortunately, that is not the case in my area, and our bus system does
>>>> not
>>>> function after 5. Our meetings are in the evenings and are not over in
>>>> time
>>>> for me to catch a bus. Actually, they aren't even started prior to the
>>>> bus
>>>> stopping. So that may be another concern combined with lack of 
>>>> blindness
>>>> skills training. Is their a driver who could pick people up. Door 
>>>> prizes
>>>> might also work. Just some thoughts. Anita
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Debbie Wunder" <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:31 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] getting the interest of young people
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello students. I am the membership chair in the state of Missouri. It
>>>>> is
>>>>> very obvious that our affiliate is aging, and there is not tremendous
>>>>> growth in the under thirty-five age group. I am looking for input and
>>>>> any
>>>>> suggestions as to what interests, and makes people in this age group
>>>>> interested in joining the federation and interested in being a part of
>>>>> a
>>>>> grassroots organization such as ours.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you tell me why you came to a meeting? After coming what made you
>>>>> join
>>>>>
>>>>> and get involved? Do you see different issues that we should be 
>>>>> working
>>>>>
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>> that would help in getting some people involved?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Any input would be most
>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Debbie Wunder
>>>>>
>>>>> 573 874 1774 home
>>>>>
>>>>> 573 529 2008 AT&T cell
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christine-parsons%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 03:24:10 2011
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 22:24:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests
In-Reply-To: <F172DBD3DCD14D0BAE939FB0D728E5B7@Rufus>
References: <4D276CD3.8090004@gmail.com>
	<F172DBD3DCD14D0BAE939FB0D728E5B7@Rufus>
Message-ID: <74B26731-93D9-43B6-85BA-F0ED1042CA7D@gmail.com>

Joe,
I just wanted to say that your email below is...well...just great. Sometimes it's good to have someone say things the way they are, and I don't think you should feel bad about it. You were not rude and you didn't say anything bad to anyone.

IC
On Jan 7, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> Josh,
> 
> It sounds to me as though you are more focused on getting the career without
> giving too much attention to your degree.  A degree isn't a pass card to
> land a job.  In fact, many people find it difficult to find a job even with
> a degree, so you really have to milk your degree for all it's worth to
> really know your field and ensure you are competitive against the hundreds
> of people that apply for any one position.  To that end, I'm not sure where
> this nonsense of psychology fits anywhere.  In due course I will be looking
> for someone to add to my company with the ability to handle web design and
> database management, and I assure you psychology will not be a key qualifier
> for me.  I already know I'm crazy. LOL
> 
> Seriously, this may sound harsh.  Yet, I think you're setting yourself up
> for failure.  Helping friends fix their technical issues is nice but is not
> tangible experience.  Volunteer for an organization where you can document
> your work and walk away with a reference or two.  And, remember that just
> because you're interested in adaptive technology, this does not mean the job
> will be any easier to land.  As you have already discovered, degrees are
> preferred, and my own opinion, relevant degrees are even better so that I,
> as a potential future customer, can trust that the representative on the
> other end of the line is fully competent to discuss all the issues related
> to my problem if my inquiry is related to technical support.  If I'm a
> student, I want to ensure the teacher knows more than I do, not the other
> way around as was sadly the case in a recent experience.
> 
> I'm still scratching my head over this business of dolphins.  Maybe the
> first step is to sit down and really figure out what it is you want out of
> life.  Don't feel compelled to enter a career because anyone is pressuring
> you.  If you can figure out your true ambition, your studies are going to be
> much more enjoyable, and you will feel more motivated to find a way to get
> around inaccessible Microsoft products.  Trust me, the accessibility
> problems will never go away.  I consider myself to be just shy of an
> advanced computer user, and I still go back and forth with our office on our
> stupid file exchange network.
> 
> Finally, if you have to ask whether InstantDegrees.com is a credible
> educational institution, you've got a lot of work ahead of you my friend.
> It's a diploma mill.  I've seen your posts where you've checked out several
> different options for your education.  Pick one, suck it up and stick to it!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Joe
> 
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 2:43 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] my career interests
> 
> Hi
> 
> I did some job searching. My main career goal is to be a helpdesk or 
> helpdesk/tech support person making $35000 to $40000 per year. Either 
> that or training blind people in assistive technology. I already have 
> lots of experience in tech support and training due to having mostly 
> friends who are blind. Here where I live most my friends are either 
> blind. I do have sighted friends but they are older retired people mid 
> 60s 70s and 80s. I'm only 28. Also guys what do you think of 
> the website 
> www.instantdegrees.com ? upon reading the faq and other info there do 
> you think it is legitimate? could I get a job after purchasing 
> from that 
> website www.instantdegrees.com ? take a look at it and let me know what 
> your thoughts are.
> 
> Josh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 14:27:22 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 09:27:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Grant Opportunity, Please Help Forward
Message-ID: <7DC4BCE36EDC4D7DB15868F033C9BE2A@Rufus>

This may be of benefit to someone on the educators list.  I'm not subscribed
but felt maybe someone here was cross-subscribed and could forward it.  Or,
someone here in their graduate program might very well find some use for it.

Department of Education: Disability and Rehabilitation Research Projects and
Centers Program: Field Initiated Projects: Research and Development Grants
Application deadline: February 4, 2011
This program provides support for research or development projects that
address important topics identified by investigators and that produce new
scientific
knowledge or better understanding of the subject, problem, or body of
knowledge. Priority will be given to disability and rehabilitation research
and development
projects that facilitate the advancement of knowledge and understanding of
the unique needs of, and determine the best strategies and programs to
improve
rehabilitation outcomes for, individuals with disabilities from
traditionally underserved populations.

Link:
http://www2.ed.gov/programs/fip/applicant.html

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 18:55:00 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 13:55:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] classes
Message-ID: <4D28B304.6030100@gmail.com>

Hi

I have the solution to my problem! I'll take the ms-project class in the 
summer of 2011. In the meantime I wrote to gwmicro asking if they would 
make project accessible with their reader by summer. I wrote to serotek 
asking the same thing. And if neither of those do it then I will get 
supernova screen reader. its the only one that works with ms-project. So 
if I have to buy supernova to take the class and use in my future career 
then I will. I wish jaws and supernova had rental programs cancel 
anytime. you pay $10 per month and you can rent the screen reader. when 
you're done, stop paying and it goes back to a demo. serotek does it, 
why won't freedom and dolphin and gwmicro do this as well? it would 
really help me out. then I could rent supernova for the time I need it 
when I'm done stop paying and the license goes away.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 19:00:42 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 14:00:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] re my career interests
Message-ID: <4D28B45A.7070101@gmail.com>

Hi

I am living in East Reading zip code 19602. There is only one help desk 
tech support job that is in another town about a 10 minute drive away 
and it requires a bachelors degree. Reading pennsylvania is not the 
place for jobs.

Josh


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 19:04:38 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 14:04:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] classes
In-Reply-To: <4D28B304.6030100@gmail.com>
References: <4D28B304.6030100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C58F8307CB141798926D045C75113DA@Rufus>

That sounds like an excellent plan.  It shows some forethought.  Just
remember that it may not be possible even later in 2011 for this application
to be accessible, but if this is the case, you'll have ample time to find a
good, reliable reader who can help explain some of the application concepts.
With this, you may very well be able to find some workarounds.

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 1:55 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] classes

Hi

I have the solution to my problem! I'll take the ms-project 
class in the 
summer of 2011. In the meantime I wrote to gwmicro asking if they would 
make project accessible with their reader by summer. I wrote to serotek 
asking the same thing. And if neither of those do it then I will get 
supernova screen reader. its the only one that works with 
ms-project. So 
if I have to buy supernova to take the class and use in my 
future career 
then I will. I wish jaws and supernova had rental programs cancel 
anytime. you pay $10 per month and you can rent the screen reader. when 
you're done, stop paying and it goes back to a demo. serotek does it, 
why won't freedom and dolphin and gwmicro do this as well? it would 
really help me out. then I could rent supernova for the time I need it 
when I'm done stop paying and the license goes away.

Josh

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From th404 at comcast.net  Sat Jan  8 21:25:58 2011
From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 13:25:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Need Guidance: Several Heavily Visual Labs Coming Up
References: <auto-000023832923@mailback2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <F0365E47693143A8BD6A94B554EDCFDC@userbafffee1fc>

Steve,

Your points are well taken. Is there anyone on this list who has majored in 
chemistry or biology who might be able to offer additional ideas for the 
soil labs coming up? Thanks. 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jan  8 22:00:31 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 16:00:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000185518477@mailfront2.g2host.com>

No, in my opinion that isn't the answer.  One degree isn't 
interchangeable for another in most instances, particularly in a 
technical field.  Further, at the risk of offending, I would say that 
if you are unable to come up with a solution for this class, then 
even if you change, you will come up against another obstacle after 
the change, and have to change again.  You may have to be creative, 
like using a reader to run Project for you, but it is best to solve 
the problem and move forward, not avoid it.

Dave

At 08:27 AM 1/7/2011, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
>basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and 
>get a bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I 
>could graduate and still work in the IT field with that degree? What 
>do you think?
>
>
>Josh




From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Sat Jan  8 22:45:32 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 17:45:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <auto-000185518477@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
	<auto-000185518477@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS3BCA1BBD9893DEF57286D8B0C0@phx.gbl>

?
I disagree.  Depending on the person only of course.  Just because one blind 
person can do it doesn't mean another can.  I do not agree with the college 
trying to convince anyone to change majors because of a course but I do 
believe the student can request a waver for classes they don't believe they 
need ssuccess.  Just like with reduced fair cards for poorer people that are 
blind should we use them-- and this is the great debate.
-----Original Message----- 
From: David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:00 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] switching majors?

No, in my opinion that isn't the answer.  One degree isn't
interchangeable for another in most instances, particularly in a
technical field.  Further, at the risk of offending, I would say that
if you are unable to come up with a solution for this class, then
even if you change, you will come up against another obstacle after
the change, and have to change again.  You may have to be creative,
like using a reader to run Project for you, but it is best to solve
the problem and move forward, not avoid it.

Dave

At 08:27 AM 1/7/2011, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
>basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and get a 
>bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I could graduate 
>and still work in the IT field with that degree? What do you think?
>
>
>Josh



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From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 23:25:58 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 18:25:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Foundation scholarship competition for creative young
	people
Message-ID: <9B9EA4EB0B75491AB9603A20679666C5@Rufus>

The Jack Kent Cooke Foundation has launched a new scholarship program 
to help
cultivate the next generation of great artists and writers 
with the establishment of the
Jack Kent Cooke Graduate Arts Award. The new award, worth up 
to $50,000 per
year, will recognize and reward the most promising 
up-and-coming artists and writers
from lower-income backgrounds.
 
The Graduate Arts Award will enable ten students with 
artistic and creative merit and
outstanding academic achievement to pursue a graduate degree 
in the fine arts,
performing arts, or creative writing. The award will provide 
funding for tuition, room
and board, required fees, and books, and is renewable for up 
to three years.
 
Students eligible for the Jack Kent Cooke Foundation Graduate 
Arts Award must be
nominated by their undergraduate institution by mid-February 
2011. For additional
information, a list of faculty representatives, and 
eligibility requirements, please
visit:
http://www.jkcf.org/scholarships


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 03:04:22 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 22:04:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
Message-ID: <4BD78617A5AD43868CBD6DD685B110B8@Ashley>

Hi all,

I heard you say blackboard is pretty accessible.  I used it a little so far to obtain class announcements and documents.  But I will need it more because of an online class and my communication prof uses it a lot.
Are these features accessible?  The discussion board? Taking tests?  Reading other students' comments / work?

If you had access problems what accomodations did you have?  Did you do an alternative assignment?
My school has blackboard 9 and I am using jaws 12.
Thanks.
Ashley

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 03:08:31 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 22:08:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
Message-ID: <CC2B5738441A4F6E9A51C2651753C850@Ashley>

Hi All,

What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?  
Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in the ribbon bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control N for new, Control O for Open, and control f for find?

Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. Also is microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but may need that at work someday.
Thanks.
Ashley

From gpaikens at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 03:35:14 2011
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 21:35:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
In-Reply-To: <4BD78617A5AD43868CBD6DD685B110B8@Ashley>
References: <4BD78617A5AD43868CBD6DD685B110B8@Ashley>
Message-ID: <E04A8299-6D17-425D-A795-DA2B3B10ED04@gmail.com>

I have found the discussion boards to be quite accessible once you get used to where things are. The layout is not the most screen reader friendly but you can get to everything. I was able to post and respond to others posts without trouble. 

-Greg
On Jan 8, 2011, at 9:04 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I heard you say blackboard is pretty accessible.  I used it a little so far to obtain class announcements and documents.  But I will need it more because of an online class and my communication prof uses it a lot.
> Are these features accessible?  The discussion board? Taking tests?  Reading other students' comments / work?
> 
> If you had access problems what accomodations did you have?  Did you do an alternative assignment?
> My school has blackboard 9 and I am using jaws 12.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From empower at smart.net  Sun Jan  9 03:46:41 2011
From: empower at smart.net (Jamal Mazrui)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 21:46:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindmath] wxMaxima -- an accessible,
	computer algebra system
Message-ID: <auto-000189216603@mailfront1.g2host.com>

It seems rare these days to find sophisticated software with a 
graphical user interface that is accessible, even though that was 
apparently not a design goal of the project.  Thus, I want to 
encourage folks to check out wxMaxima if they have an interest in 
using software for mathematics work, or if they have an interest in a 
cross-platform development approach that results in accessible GUIs.

wxMaxima is a free, open source "computer algebra system" available at

http://maxima.sourceforge.net/


It uses wxWidgets as its GUI library, which wraps native controls of 
the operating system, and hence, implements the accessible API of 
that platform.  It includes the Maxima console-mode, command-line 
interface as well, which is also accessible with any screen reader.

In my opinion, this project is worth spreading the word about and 
showing support for!

Jamal




From danedunham26 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 04:03:19 2011
From: danedunham26 at gmail.com (Dane Dunham)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 22:03:19 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Re:  Microsoft publisher and word
In-Reply-To: <CC2B5738441A4F6E9A51C2651753C850@Ashley>
References: <CC2B5738441A4F6E9A51C2651753C850@Ashley>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimM0nFt+wBuLcOii5sCwGP21zxoh-Ec+BNGOg7A@mail.gmail.com>

I have not had any experience with office 2010, but I've been using office
2007 for over a year with the freely available NVDA screen reader.  You move
from ribbon to ribbon using the left and right arrow keys after pressing
alt.

The ribbon bar is really a tab bar with subsequent options under each tab.
In my experience, most access keys have remained the same, at least in
office 2007, with few exceptions.  For example, many access keys have become
triple-stroke access keys, meaning you have to press a key like ALT+N, and
then another letter immediately afterword to make things happen.

It does get a little unusual after you get to the ribbon you want.  Usually,
you would need to press tab to get to the other options, but in office 2007,
you use the up and down arrows to get to the options under each tab.  It’s a
little difficult to explain, so please let me know if something doesn’t make
sense.

However, I have had to use publisher for a few things, and needed to have
sited assistance because the edit controls in publisher are not accessible
with NVDA or ZoomText, the other access program I use.  Publisher might work
with JFW or another screen reader though.
Overall, it takes a bit of getting used to, but I have found office 2007 to
be much easier to use and more intuitive than office 2003.


On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 9:08 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?
> Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in the ribbon
> bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
> Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control N for new,
> Control O for Open, and control f for find?
>
> Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. Also is
> microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but may need
> that at work someday.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com
>

                                                  <#>              <#>
<#>       <#>

From kobycox at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 04:14:37 2011
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 22:14:37 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Re:  Microsoft publisher and word
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimM0nFt+wBuLcOii5sCwGP21zxoh-Ec+BNGOg7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CC2B5738441A4F6E9A51C2651753C850@Ashley>
	<AANLkTimM0nFt+wBuLcOii5sCwGP21zxoh-Ec+BNGOg7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501cbafb3$d0aa0040$71fe00c0$@com>

All,
As a technical Support Specialist for a company who cells products for people who have a vision disability and also for people who are legally Blind like my self I talk to many clients dayley about different Tech Support problems and I actually know a client who can use BlackBoard and it takes some scripting in order to work well with JFW. I don't know about NVDA or ZoomText. I'm also a at large board member for the national Federation of the Blind of OK.
Thanks,
Koby.   

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dane Dunham
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 10:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Re: Microsoft publisher and word

I have not had any experience with office 2010, but I've been using office
2007 for over a year with the freely available NVDA screen reader.  You move
from ribbon to ribbon using the left and right arrow keys after pressing
alt.

The ribbon bar is really a tab bar with subsequent options under each tab.
In my experience, most access keys have remained the same, at least in
office 2007, with few exceptions.  For example, many access keys have become
triple-stroke access keys, meaning you have to press a key like ALT+N, and
then another letter immediately afterword to make things happen.

It does get a little unusual after you get to the ribbon you want.  Usually,
you would need to press tab to get to the other options, but in office 2007,
you use the up and down arrows to get to the options under each tab.  It’s a
little difficult to explain, so please let me know if something doesn’t make
sense.

However, I have had to use publisher for a few things, and needed to have
sited assistance because the edit controls in publisher are not accessible
with NVDA or ZoomText, the other access program I use.  Publisher might work
with JFW or another screen reader though.
Overall, it takes a bit of getting used to, but I have found office 2007 to
be much easier to use and more intuitive than office 2003.


On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 9:08 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?
> Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in the ribbon
> bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
> Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control N for new,
> Control O for Open, and control f for find?
>
> Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. Also is
> microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but may need
> that at work someday.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunham26%40gmail.com
>

                                                  <#>              <#>
<#>       <#>
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sun Jan  9 05:30:07 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 21:30:07 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Re:  Microsoft publisher and word
Message-ID: <tHW41f0072PutTY05HW5Ai@netzero.net>

Microsoft publisher isn't that accessible. I've tried to use it 
with JAWS, but the only controls that are accessible are the 
dialog boxes, not the edit controls where you actually do the 
work. I am an expert (somehow) writing HTML, but I tried to 
create a web page in publisher and it didn't work out.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Dane Dunham <danedunham26 at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 22:03:19 -0600
>Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} Re:  Microsoft publisher and word

>I have not had any experience with office 2010, but I've been 
using office
>2007 for over a year with the freely available NVDA screen 
reader.  You move
>from ribbon to ribbon using the left and right arrow keys after 
pressing
>alt.

>The ribbon bar is really a tab bar with subsequent options under 
each tab.
>In my experience, most access keys have remained the same, at 
least in
>office 2007, with few exceptions.  For example, many access keys 
have become
>triple-stroke access keys, meaning you have to press a key like 
ALT+N, and
>then another letter immediately afterword to make things happen.

>It does get a little unusual after you get to the ribbon you 
want.  Usually,
>you would need to press tab to get to the other options, but in 
office 2007,
>you use the up and down arrows to get to the options under each 
tab.  It’s a
>little difficult to explain, so please let me know if something 
doesn’t make
>sense.

>However, I have had to use publisher for a few things, and needed 
to have
>sited assistance because the edit controls in publisher are not 
accessible
>with NVDA or ZoomText, the other access program I use.  Publisher 
might work
>with JFW or another screen reader though.
>Overall, it takes a bit of getting used to, but I have found 
office 2007 to
>be much easier to use and more intuitive than office 2003.


>On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 9:08 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

>> Hi All,

>> What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?
>> Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in 
the ribbon
>> bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
>> Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control 
N for new,
>> Control O for Open, and control f for find?

>> Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. 
Also is
>> microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but 
may need
>> that at work someday.
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> nabs-l:

>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/danedunha
m26%40gmail.com


>                                                  <#>              
<#
><#>       <#
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sun Jan  9 05:34:02 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 21:34:02 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] facebook question
Message-ID: <tHZz1f00H2PutTY05Ha0LZ@netzero.net>

Hi all listers,

I'm not sure if this is off-topic for this list, but do you know 
if it is possible to upload MP3 files on facebook? Are there any 
rules, if it is possible, for uploading MP3 files? If so, how can 
this be done with facebook?
Thanks, and have a nice weekend!


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 06:21:01 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 01:21:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] facebook question
In-Reply-To: <tHZz1f00H2PutTY05Ha0LZ@netzero.net>
References: <tHZz1f00H2PutTY05Ha0LZ@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinOJm7SXb0g9okHdqhfRVdL6kHq-Jsmc-UmdPOc@mail.gmail.com>

Hey:
I think there's a Facebook application where you can upload songs, but
I'm really not sure.

On 1/9/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
> Hi all listers,
>
> I'm not sure if this is off-topic for this list, but do you know
> if it is possible to upload MP3 files on facebook? Are there any
> rules, if it is possible, for uploading MP3 files? If so, how can
> this be done with facebook?
> Thanks, and have a nice weekend!
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From knownoflove at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 07:40:14 2011
From: knownoflove at gmail.com (Miranda)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 02:40:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] facebook question
Message-ID: <4d29654e.c8122a0a.364f.68db@mx.google.com>

Hi,
This has been my experience. As a musician, I created a Facebook page. If I wanted to upload Mp3 files directly to Facebook (without using a 3rd party add-in), I needed to scan a coppy of my state ID to prove I owned the coppyright to my music. In my opinion, this poses a security risk. I therefore chose to use the "My Band" application in conjunction with www.reverbnation.com.
As I said, this has been my experience, and other experiences may differ depending on each situation.
Hth, and have a great weekend!

In Christ, Miranda

-----Original Message-----
From: humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:34 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] facebook question

Hi all listers,

I'm not sure if this is off-topic for this list, but do you know 
if it is possible to upload MP3 files on facebook? Are there any 
rules, if it is possible, for uploading MP3 files? If so, how can 
this be done with facebook?
Thanks, and have a nice weekend!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  9 15:57:19 2011
From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma )
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:57:19 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
Message-ID: <COL107-DS19A0C6B1142457C026BECFB50D0@phx.gbl>

You need to be using black borad 9.1


-----Original Message-----
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: 1/9/2011 3:04:22 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
Hi all,

I heard you say blackboard is pretty accessible.  I used it a little so far to obtain class announcements and documents.  But I will need it more because of an online class and my communication prof uses it a lot.
Are these features accessible?  The discussion board? Taking tests?  Reading other students' comments / work?

If you had access problems what accomodations did you have?  Did you do an alternative assignment?
My school has blackboard 9 and I am using jaws 12.
Thanks.
Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com

From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  9 16:04:19 2011
From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma )
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:04:19 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
Message-ID: <COL107-DS78C772DF152FABB0C6EF5B50D0@phx.gbl>

If you have jaws 12 then you get victual menu so then you have menu in office 2007 only if you have jaws 12


-----Original Message-----
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: 1/9/2011 3:08:31 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
Hi All,

What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?
Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in the ribbon bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control N for new, Control O for Open, and control f for find?

Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. Also is microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but may need that at work someday.
Thanks.
Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com

From ginisd at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  9 16:14:16 2011
From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 08:14:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
In-Reply-To: <COL107-DS19A0C6B1142457C026BECFB50D0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL107-DS19A0C6B1142457C026BECFB50D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AC1F5ACC529847A090482E91D76F0925@windows4c0ed96>

Hello, Actually, I did use a kind of older version of Blackboard called Web
ct, But I was able to find workarounds for everything and complete my class.
The toll free Blackboard staff can be very helpful in finding ways around
obstacles.  Web Ct  is apparently used on very few campuses, but on my
campus there are no immediate pplans to update.  I had to have my professor
e mail me as attatchments PDF files I could not open online, for example.
The message Board takes some trial and error, but is really intuitive to use
after a time.  Best, Ginny

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jacob Struiksma 
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:57 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard features

You need to be using black borad 9.1


-----Original Message-----
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: 1/9/2011 3:04:22 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
Hi all,

I heard you say blackboard is pretty accessible.  I used it a little so far
to obtain class announcements and documents.  But I will need it more
because of an online class and my communication prof uses it a lot.
Are these features accessible?  The discussion board? Taking tests?  Reading
other students' comments / work?

If you had access problems what accomodations did you have?  Did you do an
alternative assignment?
My school has blackboard 9 and I am using jaws 12.
Thanks.
Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai
l.com
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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et



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 19:11:29 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:11:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ms-project
Message-ID: <4D2A0861.30902@gmail.com>

Hi

As I said, the supernova screen reader is completely make ms-project 
accessible to blind people. as far as I know it is the only reader that 
lets people use ms-project. I did ask gwmicro and serotek to script 
their readers for ms-project but I don't know whether they will and how 
long it will take.


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 19:13:15 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:13:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
Message-ID: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com>

Hi

I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class. 
You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers 
accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova. 
supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010 
accessible.

Josh


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Jan  9 19:31:25 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 11:31:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D4BEE20AD7A4685B05C2231968711DB@stanford.edu>

In order for a company to make changes like that, it takes a large demand. I 
doubt that that many blind people use MS Project, so it would be a low 
priority. Also, even if they did, these types of things are not over night 
events. And one last factor is the program itself. MS Project just might be 
one of those programs for which it is very hard to adapt a screen reader. I 
am by no means an expert on all of the in and outs of such programs, but let 
me know if you would like a very general description of the types of 
features that can cause problems with screen readers.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 11:13 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] waver


> Hi
>
> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class. 
> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers 
> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova. 
> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010 
> accessible.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 20:16:37 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:16:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
References: <COL107-DS19A0C6B1142457C026BECFB50D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EBC5B76839004E9681FF91BD9D6194AC@Ashley>

Well as I said Imy school uses 9 unless they updated to 9.1.  If I run into 
issues I'll call blackboard about it.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jacob Struiksma " <lawnmower84 at hotmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list " 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard features


> You need to be using black borad 9.1
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> Sent: 1/9/2011 3:04:22 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
> Hi all,
>
> I heard you say blackboard is pretty accessible.  I used it a little so 
> far to obtain class announcements and documents.  But I will need it more 
> because of an online class and my communication prof uses it a lot.
> Are these features accessible?  The discussion board? Taking tests? 
> Reading other students' comments / work?
>
> If you had access problems what accomodations did you have?  Did you do an 
> alternative assignment?
> My school has blackboard 9 and I am using jaws 12.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 20:20:17 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:20:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ms-project
References: <4D2A0861.30902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE84A5B571D74E4BB9EFB8D4C32F8644@Ashley>

You seem to know about a lot of screen readers.  Where do you get Super 
Nova?  Is it less expensive than jaws?
What reader is with Serotek?  I wouldn't want to learn and buy a new screen 
reader just for a class but its your choice.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:11 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] ms-project


> Hi
>
> As I said, the supernova screen reader is completely make ms-project 
> accessible to blind people. as far as I know it is the only reader that 
> lets people use ms-project. I did ask gwmicro and serotek to script their 
> readers for ms-project but I don't know whether they will and how long it 
> will take.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 20:29:00 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 15:29:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley>

Josh,
Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think your voc 
rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I highly 
doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy 
something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology purchase has to 
be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them 
accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the time you need 
it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you think 
the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the 
scripting process?
If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered 
accessible; some software is just not.
Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people 
needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.

Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a reader to help 
you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another program 
to accomplish the same goals of the class?

Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking companies to 
script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a realistic 
idea.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] waver


> Hi
>
> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class. 
> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers 
> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova. 
> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010 
> accessible.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 21:05:53 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:05:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley>
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com>
	<60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Josh and all,

I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
other software.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
service.

For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.

My point is that I would caution against saying something is
impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.

Good luck!
Arielle

On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Josh,
> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think your voc
> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I highly
> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology purchase has to
> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the time you need
> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you think
> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
> scripting process?
> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
> accessible; some software is just not.
> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>
> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a reader to help
> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another program
> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>
> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking companies to
> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a realistic
> idea.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class.
>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010
>> accessible.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 21:22:49 2011
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:22:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
In-Reply-To: <COL107-DS78C772DF152FABB0C6EF5B50D0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL107-DS78C772DF152FABB0C6EF5B50D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=HaEaEBQEY2J92n8du90MfXGHQyesPJB61Kptc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Ashley,
  I recently upgraded to MS Office 2007 and Jaws 12, and so far things
are working well. Most of the keyboard shortcuts stay the same, and as
has already been mentioned the Virtual Menu feature makes the ribbons
behave just like traditional menus. You use Alt to get to the ribbons
and move around using arrow keys; the only catch is that you have to
press Alt again to return to the document instead of pressing Escape.
I have heard about some accessibility challenges with earlier versions
of JAWS though so if that's what you have you may want to double-check
before you upgrade. Hope this helps!
   Katie

On 1/9/11, Jacob Struiksma <lawnmower84 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you have jaws 12 then you get victual menu so then you have menu in
> office 2007 only if you have jaws 12
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> Sent: 1/9/2011 3:08:31 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
> Hi All,
>
> What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?
> Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in the ribbon
> bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
> Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control N for new,
> Control O for Open, and control f for find?
>
> Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. Also is
> microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but may need
> that at work someday.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Sun Jan  9 21:33:33 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 16:33:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=HaEaEBQEY2J92n8du90MfXGHQyesPJB61Kptc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL107-DS78C772DF152FABB0C6EF5B50D0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=HaEaEBQEY2J92n8du90MfXGHQyesPJB61Kptc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1BEC244DDB1E4E90B8E86749ED507DAA@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hi, I use Office 2007 with JAWS 10, and I have no trouble with Excel, 
PowerPoint or Word as those are the ones I use. If you press alt to get to 
the menu bar, you can left or right arrow until the menu name is spoken that 
you are desiring to reach. Then, treat it like a dialogue box, meaning tab 
through until you hear the choice you are looking for. Like already said, 
shortcut keys, including for previous versions, work as well. Anita
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Wang" <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word


> Hi, Ashley,
>  I recently upgraded to MS Office 2007 and Jaws 12, and so far things
> are working well. Most of the keyboard shortcuts stay the same, and as
> has already been mentioned the Virtual Menu feature makes the ribbons
> behave just like traditional menus. You use Alt to get to the ribbons
> and move around using arrow keys; the only catch is that you have to
> press Alt again to return to the document instead of pressing Escape.
> I have heard about some accessibility challenges with earlier versions
> of JAWS though so if that's what you have you may want to double-check
> before you upgrade. Hope this helps!
>   Katie
>
> On 1/9/11, Jacob Struiksma <lawnmower84 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If you have jaws 12 then you get victual menu so then you have menu in
>> office 2007 only if you have jaws 12
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> Sent: 1/9/2011 3:08:31 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
>> Hi All,
>>
>> What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?
>> Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in the 
>> ribbon
>> bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
>> Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control N for 
>> new,
>> Control O for Open, and control f for find?
>>
>> Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. Also is
>> microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but may need
>> that at work someday.
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 21:44:38 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:44:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
References: <COL107-DS78C772DF152FABB0C6EF5B50D0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=HaEaEBQEY2J92n8du90MfXGHQyesPJB61Kptc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1844D10012EF476B86AA488E6135D634@Ashley>

Katie,
Thanks; I am using jaws 12.  That's good to know most shortcuts work.  I use 
mostly skey commands rather than the menus anyway.  I use f12 for save as; f 
7 for spell check, etc.
Glad to know its not problematic.
What does the virtual menu feature do and how do I access it?

Thanks.
Ashley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Wang" <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word


> Hi, Ashley,
>  I recently upgraded to MS Office 2007 and Jaws 12, and so far things
> are working well. Most of the keyboard shortcuts stay the same, and as
> has already been mentioned the Virtual Menu feature makes the ribbons
> behave just like traditional menus. You use Alt to get to the ribbons
> and move around using arrow keys; the only catch is that you have to
> press Alt again to return to the document instead of pressing Escape.
> I have heard about some accessibility challenges with earlier versions
> of JAWS though so if that's what you have you may want to double-check
> before you upgrade. Hope this helps!
>   Katie
>
> On 1/9/11, Jacob Struiksma <lawnmower84 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If you have jaws 12 then you get victual menu so then you have menu in
>> office 2007 only if you have jaws 12
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> Sent: 1/9/2011 3:08:31 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft publisher and word
>> Hi All,
>>
>> What features of Word in 2007 and 2010 don't work well?
>> Have most accessibility issues been worked out?  Alt puts you in the 
>> ribbon
>> bar; how do you move from ribbon to ribbon?
>> Do all Microsoft key shortcuts still work?  For instance Control N for 
>> new,
>> Control O for Open, and control f for find?
>>
>> Just wondered how much has stayed the same; I'm upgrading soon. Also is
>> microsoft publisher accessible? I am not using it at school, but may need
>> that at work someday.
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 21:47:52 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:47:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
References: <COL107-DS19A0C6B1142457C026BECFB50D0@phx.gbl>
	<AC1F5ACC529847A090482E91D76F0925@windows4c0ed96>
Message-ID: <C8DFAC41885043C2B52037BBA4A91F38@Ashley>

Jenny,
Wow, i though web ct didn't exist anymore; I remember one class used that 
back in 2002.
I'll call blackboard if I have problems then.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard features


> Hello, Actually, I did use a kind of older version of Blackboard called 
> Web
> ct, But I was able to find workarounds for everything and complete my 
> class.
> The toll free Blackboard staff can be very helpful in finding ways around
> obstacles.  Web Ct  is apparently used on very few campuses, but on my
> campus there are no immediate pplans to update.  I had to have my 
> professor
> e mail me as attatchments PDF files I could not open online, for example.
> The message Board takes some trial and error, but is really intuitive to 
> use
> after a time.  Best, Ginny
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Jacob Struiksma
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:57 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blackboard features
>
> You need to be using black borad 9.1
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> Sent: 1/9/2011 3:04:22 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] blackboard features
> Hi all,
>
> I heard you say blackboard is pretty accessible.  I used it a little so 
> far
> to obtain class announcements and documents.  But I will need it more
> because of an online class and my communication prof uses it a lot.
> Are these features accessible?  The discussion board? Taking tests? 
> Reading
> other students' comments / work?
>
> If you had access problems what accomodations did you have?  Did you do an
> alternative assignment?
> My school has blackboard 9 and I am using jaws 12.
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai
> l.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n
> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 22:03:41 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:03:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
Message-ID: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com>

Hi

Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from 
both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this will work 
I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we 
need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to 
implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how it works.
You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent 
it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick product rentals. 
you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per month basis. 
So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will 
pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4 
months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for 
window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and I decide I 
don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go into your 
product rental account on the company's websites and cancel your rental. 
And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets deactivated. 
Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month plus $5 or 
so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I need it on 
two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for 
something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my 
rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!

Josh


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 22:37:53 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:37:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
In-Reply-To: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com>
References: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E0DB44CF23334C589CE11547F4A4731F@Rufus>

Josh,

Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have previously
suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what GW Micro has
been doing for its product, and a few years later the landscape has not
changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very well discover
that the course using MS Project would have come and gone before you know
it.

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental

Hi

Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from 
both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this will work 
I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we 
need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to 
implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how 
it works.
You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent 
it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick product rentals. 
you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per month basis. 
So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will 
pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4 
months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for 
window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and I decide I 
don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go 
into your 
product rental account on the company's websites and cancel 
your rental. 
And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets 
deactivated. 
Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month 
plus $5 or 
so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I 
need it on 
two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for 
something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my 
rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!

Josh

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Sun Jan  9 22:54:12 2011
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:54:12 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com><60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley>
	<AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <021301cbb050$22731230$6601a8c0@server>

Hello Josh,

I think that Arielle has articulated my thoughts better than I could have. 
Additionally let me say that I think it is very "dangerous" for us to ask to 
be excused from required classes because of blindness, and it will have an 
impact on your ability to get a job.  In this specific case of MS Project, 
it is probably true that you will not end up using this software in a job 
because it is not very accessible given its graphical nature.  However, it 
is essential that you learn how to use it and master its concepts during 
your education, so that you know what the program is capable of, and so you 
can communicate with your sighted colleagues who may be using MS Project on 
joint work assignments once you're employed.  When I was doing my undergrad 
program in mechanical engineering, we all had to take a class called design 
communication.  One third of this course was learning to do drafting which 
is the primary way that mechanical designs are communicated among engineers. 
I did not ask to be excused from this class, because I knew I needed to 
learn how to do drafting, not that I would ever actually be assigned to do 
this as a working engineer.  I did learn enough about drafting that if a 
sighted person, even a non engineer, is describing a mechanical diagram to 
me, I can ask questions, such as is the line solid or dotted, and I can 
pretty quickly know what is contained in the drawing.  Moreover, I did 
develop a pretty good system for drawing my own mechanical diagrams 
independently.  Had I been excused from this course I would not had been as 
good an engineer as I was for having taken the course.

When I went for job interviews, the most common first question was, "how did 
you do drafting?"  I described my method and system, and they were always 
impressed.  I'm sure they never thought that my system was sufficient that 
they would have assigned me to do drafting, but they did conclude that I was 
a problem solver, and this is what most employers in technology fields are 
looking for.  If I had told them that I was excused from drafting, they 
would have quite rightly wondered what other essential things I had been 
excused from, and what other gaps were present in my education.

Microsoft Project is an amazingly powerful program, and you need to learn 
how to use it, even though you will probably not be able to use it 
independently with any screen reader.  I suspect that you will need to use 
readers to accomplish this course, and this is perfectly acceptable.  As you 
have been advised by several people here so far, you must not give up. 
Lot's of us who are totally blind have been successful in programs which are 
fairly visual.  As I recall Arielle received her undergrad degree in 
biology, and much of that work is visual.  I worked as a systems analyst for 
IBM for a number of years after I earned an Masters degree in computer 
science, and some aspects of both my school work and professional work was 
visual.  My point is that many blind people have already done the type of 
thing you are trying to do, so please feel confident that you are not 
engaged in something which is impossible, or can only be done by having 
classes waived for you.

We're all pulling for you, so take on MS Project knowing that you can do it, 
and be excited by what you are about to learn.

All the best,
Dennis




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <nabs.president at gmail.com>
To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National Association of 
Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Hi Josh and all,
>
> I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
> of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
> but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
> of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
> software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
> other software.
>
> I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
> people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
> they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
> educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
> possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
> assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
> statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
> possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
> service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
> with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
> service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
> or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
> religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
> service.
>
> For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
> psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
> poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
> data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
> presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
> handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
> working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
> shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
> participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
> myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
> elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
> ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
> many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
> with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
> class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
> the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
> data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
> tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
> teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
> decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
> identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
> that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
> similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
> paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
> don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
> work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>
> My point is that I would caution against saying something is
> impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
> course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
> the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
> comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
> options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>
> Good luck!
> Arielle
>
> On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think your voc
>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I 
>> highly
>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology purchase has 
>> to
>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the time you 
>> need
>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you 
>> think
>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
>> scripting process?
>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
>> accessible; some software is just not.
>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>
>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a reader to 
>> help
>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another 
>> program
>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>
>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking companies to
>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a realistic
>> idea.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class.
>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010
>>> accessible.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net 



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sun Jan  9 22:56:58 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:56:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
Message-ID: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net>

Hello all.
I can understand your points about readers and being able to get 
assistance in college. I understand that even sighted people 
request assistance, I don't blame them for that. I know things 
can be done this way, but isn't it the goal of the National 
Federation of the blind and the blind ourselves to be as 
independent as the sighted? Can't we do and fight for our freedom 
just like the sighted?

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
>To: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>, National 
Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:05:53 -0700
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

>Hi Josh and all,

>I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived 
because
>of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned 
already,
>but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the 
help
>of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of 
necessary
>software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than 
SuperNova or
>other software.

>I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and 
sighted
>people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task 
independently,
>they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who 
were
>educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success 
is
>possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and 
other
>assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in 
their
>statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
>possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to 
provide a
>service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or 
working
>with volunteers from an organization that requires them to 
complete
>service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and 
sororities
>or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
>religious organizations require their members to perform 
volunteer
>service.

>For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral 
program in
>psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or 
make
>poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter 
the
>data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
>presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
>handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so 
by
>working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a 
real
>shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
>participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
>myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
>elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once 
and
>ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. 
Yet
>many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who 
help
>with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
>class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still 
performing
>the important work. I still independently develop the content for 
my
>data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on 
their
>tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The 
blind
>teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one 
who
>decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they 
are
>identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to 
remember
>that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
>similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
>paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted 
classmates
>don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do 
often
>work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.

>My point is that I would caution against saying something is
>impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
>course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible 
out of
>the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
>comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
>options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.

>Good luck!
>Arielle

>On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think 
your voc
>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one 
class?  I highly
>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to 
buy
>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology 
purchase has to
>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make 
them
>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the 
time you need
>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, 
do you think
>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of 
the
>> scripting process?
>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is 
rendered
>> accessible; some software is just not.
>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind 
people
>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.

>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a 
reader to help
>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use 
another program
>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?

>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking 
companies to
>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a 
realistic
>> idea.

>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver


>>> Hi

>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management 
class.
>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their 
readers
>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me 
supernova.
>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 
and 2010
>>> accessible.

>>> Josh

>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma
hb%40earthlink.net



>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres
ident%40gmail.com



>--
>Arielle Silverman
>President, National Association of Blind Students
>Phone:  602-502-2255
>Email:
>nabs.president at gmail.com
>Website:
>www.nabslink.org

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 23:11:03 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:11:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
References: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com>
	<E0DB44CF23334C589CE11547F4A4731F@Rufus>
Message-ID: <D75586E348084F37957CABB1C589F4C8@Ashley>

Joe,
I, too, have heard this idea before.  I wasn't aware that GW Micro did it 
though.
Do you use it? What products do they sell and how much is renting a screen 
reader by the month?
This may be a great idea for me if I have a internship or temporary job; I'd 
rather rent the product
rather than buy it if I only need it for a short time.  I know employers are 
supposed to provide the accomodation but realistically they will not if the 
job is short term.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
<nabs at acb.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental


> Josh,
>
> Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have 
> previously
> suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what GW Micro has
> been doing for its product, and a few years later the landscape has not
> changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
> writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very well discover
> that the course using MS Project would have come and gone before you know
> it.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>
> Hi
>
> Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from
> both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this will work
> I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we
> need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to
> implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how
> it works.
> You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent
> it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick product rentals.
> you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per month basis.
> So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will
> pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4
> months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for
> window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and I decide I
> don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go
> into your
> product rental account on the company's websites and cancel
> your rental.
> And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets
> deactivated.
> Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month
> plus $5 or
> so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I
> need it on
> two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for
> something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my
> rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sun Jan  9 23:15:06 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:15:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
In-Reply-To: <D75586E348084F37957CABB1C589F4C8@Ashley>
References: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com>
	<E0DB44CF23334C589CE11547F4A4731F@Rufus>
	<D75586E348084F37957CABB1C589F4C8@Ashley>
Message-ID: <BC9B76AC487041CCB2B4DD9606135083@Rufus>

I don't know that GW Micro would necessarily call what they do renting their
product.  Ultimately the idea is that you will pay up to ownership.
Serotek, as best as I know, is the only one with a month to month payment
arrangement.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ashley Bramlett [mailto:bookwormahb at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:11 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental

Joe,
I, too, have heard this idea before.  I wasn't aware that GW 
Micro did it 
though.
Do you use it? What products do they sell and how much is 
renting a screen 
reader by the month?
This may be a great idea for me if I have a internship or 
temporary job; I'd 
rather rent the product
rather than buy it if I only need it for a short time.  I know 
employers are 
supposed to provide the accomodation but realistically they 
will not if the 
job is short term.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
<nabs at acb.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental


> Josh,
>
> Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have 
> previously
> suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what 
GW Micro has
> been doing for its product, and a few years later the 
landscape has not
> changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
> writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very 
well discover
> that the course using MS Project would have come and gone 
before you know
> it.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up 
their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>
> Hi
>
> Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from
> both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this 
will work
> I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we
> need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to
> implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how
> it works.
> You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent
> it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick 
product rentals.
> you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per 
month basis.
> So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will
> pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4
> months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for
> window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and 
I decide I
> don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go
> into your
> product rental account on the company's websites and cancel
> your rental.
> And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets
> deactivated.
> Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month
> plus $5 or
> so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I
> need it on
> two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for
> something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my
> rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
ahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan  9 23:20:45 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:20:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
References: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com>
	<E0DB44CF23334C589CE11547F4A4731F@Rufus>
Message-ID: <5566863EA59648548050CD9AFA2A837B@Ashley>

Joe,
I assume you can also buy GW micro products?  Do they have keys for their 
screen reader like Freedom scientific does? Keys limit the number of 
computers you can use jaws on which is the point I guess.  When I bought  a 
new computer I had to get the keys reset since I used up my set of them.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
<nabs at acb.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental


> Josh,
>
> Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have 
> previously
> suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what GW Micro has
> been doing for its product, and a few years later the landscape has not
> changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
> writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very well discover
> that the course using MS Project would have come and gone before you know
> it.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>
> Hi
>
> Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from
> both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this will work
> I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we
> need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to
> implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how
> it works.
> You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent
> it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick product rentals.
> you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per month basis.
> So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will
> pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4
> months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for
> window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and I decide I
> don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go
> into your
> product rental account on the company's websites and cancel
> your rental.
> And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets
> deactivated.
> Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month
> plus $5 or
> so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I
> need it on
> two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for
> something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my
> rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 10 00:01:25 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 19:01:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
References: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com><E0DB44CF23334C589CE11547F4A4731F@Rufus><D75586E348084F37957CABB1C589F4C8@Ashley>
	<BC9B76AC487041CCB2B4DD9606135083@Rufus>
Message-ID: <9E916A5BCA6B43CB9EC932182809F381@Ashley>

Joe,
I saw their website; its an installment plan where you pay to own it.
So Serotek is the only one with month to month payment.
Does it sound like jaws?
Where do I get that screen reader? Is it as sophisticated as jaws and make 
the internet and microsoft products accessible?

Ashley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental


>I don't know that GW Micro would necessarily call what they do renting 
>their
> product.  Ultimately the idea is that you will pay up to ownership.
> Serotek, as best as I know, is the only one with a month to month payment
> arrangement.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett [mailto:bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>
> Joe,
> I, too, have heard this idea before.  I wasn't aware that GW
> Micro did it
> though.
> Do you use it? What products do they sell and how much is
> renting a screen
> reader by the month?
> This may be a great idea for me if I have a internship or
> temporary job; I'd
> rather rent the product
> rather than buy it if I only need it for a short time.  I know
> employers are
> supposed to provide the accomodation but realistically they
> will not if the
> job is short term.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
> <nabs at acb.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>
>
>> Josh,
>>
>> Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have
>> previously
>> suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what
> GW Micro has
>> been doing for its product, and a few years later the
> landscape has not
>> changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
>> writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very
> well discover
>> that the course using MS Project would have come and gone
> before you know
>> it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
> their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from
>> both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this
> will work
>> I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we
>> need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to
>> implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how
>> it works.
>> You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent
>> it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick
> product rentals.
>> you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per
> month basis.
>> So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will
>> pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4
>> months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for
>> window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and
> I decide I
>> don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go
>> into your
>> product rental account on the company's websites and cancel
>> your rental.
>> And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets
>> deactivated.
>> Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month
>> plus $5 or
>> so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I
>> need it on
>> two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for
>> something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my
>> rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
> ahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 00:04:08 2011
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:04:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
In-Reply-To: <9E916A5BCA6B43CB9EC932182809F381@Ashley>
References: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com>
	<E0DB44CF23334C589CE11547F4A4731F@Rufus>
	<D75586E348084F37957CABB1C589F4C8@Ashley>
	<BC9B76AC487041CCB2B4DD9606135083@Rufus>
	<9E916A5BCA6B43CB9EC932182809F381@Ashley>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimwADfLeR3HnA=PdEzSY3nagSJ+hckQOQYGHEZg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
GWMicro has actually a month to month payment arrangement, and it can
be considered rent or I guess more accurately rent to own because once
you pay it off, you own it. And you pay a payment every month.

Thanks
Nimer J

On 09/01/2011, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Joe,
> I saw their website; its an installment plan where you pay to own it.
> So Serotek is the only one with month to month payment.
> Does it sound like jaws?
> Where do I get that screen reader? Is it as sophisticated as jaws and make
> the internet and microsoft products accessible?
>
> Ashley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>
>
>>I don't know that GW Micro would necessarily call what they do renting
>>their
>> product.  Ultimately the idea is that you will pay up to ownership.
>> Serotek, as best as I know, is the only one with a month to month payment
>> arrangement.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ashley Bramlett [mailto:bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:11 PM
>> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>>
>> Joe,
>> I, too, have heard this idea before.  I wasn't aware that GW
>> Micro did it
>> though.
>> Do you use it? What products do they sell and how much is
>> renting a screen
>> reader by the month?
>> This may be a great idea for me if I have a internship or
>> temporary job; I'd
>> rather rent the product
>> rather than buy it if I only need it for a short time.  I know
>> employers are
>> supposed to provide the accomodation but realistically they
>> will not if the
>> job is short term.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>> <nabs at acb.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>>
>>
>>> Josh,
>>>
>>> Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have
>>> previously
>>> suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what
>> GW Micro has
>>> been doing for its product, and a few years later the
>> landscape has not
>>> changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
>>> writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very
>> well discover
>>> that the course using MS Project would have come and gone
>> before you know
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>> their sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from
>>> both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this
>> will work
>>> I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we
>>> need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to
>>> implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how
>>> it works.
>>> You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent
>>> it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick
>> product rentals.
>>> you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per
>> month basis.
>>> So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will
>>> pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4
>>> months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for
>>> window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and
>> I decide I
>>> don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go
>>> into your
>>> product rental account on the company's websites and cancel
>>> your rental.
>>> And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets
>>> deactivated.
>>> Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month
>>> plus $5 or
>>> so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I
>>> need it on
>>> two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for
>>> something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my
>>> rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
>> ahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer M. Jaber

This message is addressed for the sole use of the intended recipient.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply
email and destroy this email from computer, server, and anywhere else
where it might be stored. Failure to do so may result in legal action.
I will niot be held responsible for any Action taken as a result of
the content of my correspondence that results in any harm whatsoever.
Furthermore, distribution or dissemination of this email, any part of
this email, or any attachments to this email is prohibited except when
explicitly stated.
registered Linux user number 529141
http://counter.li.org

Phone: (720) (251-4530)
Email: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nimer.jaber


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 00:08:52 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 19:08:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=E5sXyVawVCx70SEbXyheiMwVXRrGh-ZBeNh7N@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone:
My senior class is going to Disney World for our senior trip this
year. I am writing to ask if anyone who has visited Disney World can
tell me what the procedure is with a cane. I use a folding cane, and I
know there are certain rides where Disney doesn't want you carrying
anything on with you. In this case, what happens with the cane? If you
have to have someone hold the cane, what happens if the ride entrance
and exit are not in the same place?
Thanks,
Patrick


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 00:18:13 2011
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:18:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=E5sXyVawVCx70SEbXyheiMwVXRrGh-ZBeNh7N@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=E5sXyVawVCx70SEbXyheiMwVXRrGh-ZBeNh7N@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik67EJn_8e7XP6wboLX9XEKLPkWm-_BmMHZ7dYS@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick,
  Usually in front of your seat on a ride, there's a little bag which
I'd put my foldeed cane in.  It's on the back of the seat in front of
you, on most rides.  And, if they ever asked for my cane at the ride
gate, I just gave it to the employee.  They always gave it back to me
at the end...but you should be fine folding the dang thing and putting
it in that bag, or even if you hold onto it on your lap you're
probably fine.
  Hope that helps,
Kirt

On 1/9/11, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Everyone:
> My senior class is going to Disney World for our senior trip this
> year. I am writing to ask if anyone who has visited Disney World can
> tell me what the procedure is with a cane. I use a folding cane, and I
> know there are certain rides where Disney doesn't want you carrying
> anything on with you. In this case, what happens with the cane? If you
> have to have someone hold the cane, what happens if the ride entrance
> and exit are not in the same place?
> Thanks,
> Patrick
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 00:27:31 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 19:27:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik67EJn_8e7XP6wboLX9XEKLPkWm-_BmMHZ7dYS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=E5sXyVawVCx70SEbXyheiMwVXRrGh-ZBeNh7N@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik67EJn_8e7XP6wboLX9XEKLPkWm-_BmMHZ7dYS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinw9SNd4dyB3y74qUaTq8kRq4FBqCowx6LxKv9V@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks! I figured I would call Disney and see what they had to say,
but I also figured I'd ask here and see what others knew.
Patrick

On 1/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Patrick,
>   Usually in front of your seat on a ride, there's a little bag which
> I'd put my foldeed cane in.  It's on the back of the seat in front of
> you, on most rides.  And, if they ever asked for my cane at the ride
> gate, I just gave it to the employee.  They always gave it back to me
> at the end...but you should be fine folding the dang thing and putting
> it in that bag, or even if you hold onto it on your lap you're
> probably fine.
>   Hope that helps,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/9/11, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Everyone:
>> My senior class is going to Disney World for our senior trip this
>> year. I am writing to ask if anyone who has visited Disney World can
>> tell me what the procedure is with a cane. I use a folding cane, and I
>> know there are certain rides where Disney doesn't want you carrying
>> anything on with you. In this case, what happens with the cane? If you
>> have to have someone hold the cane, what happens if the ride entrance
>> and exit are not in the same place?
>> Thanks,
>> Patrick
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 10 00:47:01 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 19:47:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinw9SNd4dyB3y74qUaTq8kRq4FBqCowx6LxKv9V@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=E5sXyVawVCx70SEbXyheiMwVXRrGh-ZBeNh7N@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik67EJn_8e7XP6wboLX9XEKLPkWm-_BmMHZ7dYS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinw9SNd4dyB3y74qUaTq8kRq4FBqCowx6LxKv9V@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A50C26F811B4E5BA32AEC1DC7651D53@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hey,
You might want to check out here if you are interested in audio descriptions 
and Braille stuff and such about disney. Just FYI.
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guests-with-disabilities/visual/
Anita
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Molloy" <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World


> Thanks! I figured I would call Disney and see what they had to say,
> but I also figured I'd ask here and see what others knew.
> Patrick
>
> On 1/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>   Usually in front of your seat on a ride, there's a little bag which
>> I'd put my foldeed cane in.  It's on the back of the seat in front of
>> you, on most rides.  And, if they ever asked for my cane at the ride
>> gate, I just gave it to the employee.  They always gave it back to me
>> at the end...but you should be fine folding the dang thing and putting
>> it in that bag, or even if you hold onto it on your lap you're
>> probably fine.
>>   Hope that helps,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 1/9/11, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Everyone:
>>> My senior class is going to Disney World for our senior trip this
>>> year. I am writing to ask if anyone who has visited Disney World can
>>> tell me what the procedure is with a cane. I use a folding cane, and I
>>> know there are certain rides where Disney doesn't want you carrying
>>> anything on with you. In this case, what happens with the cane? If you
>>> have to have someone hold the cane, what happens if the ride entrance
>>> and exit are not in the same place?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 01:08:40 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:08:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World
In-Reply-To: <6A50C26F811B4E5BA32AEC1DC7651D53@AnitaAdkinsPC>
References: <AANLkTi=E5sXyVawVCx70SEbXyheiMwVXRrGh-ZBeNh7N@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik67EJn_8e7XP6wboLX9XEKLPkWm-_BmMHZ7dYS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinw9SNd4dyB3y74qUaTq8kRq4FBqCowx6LxKv9V@mail.gmail.com>
	<6A50C26F811B4E5BA32AEC1DC7651D53@AnitaAdkinsPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik9QOhM2XnRomocB=sjsMj7hoh1UKVoMo9M7koq@mail.gmail.com>

I'll definitely check that out. Thanks!
Patrick

On 1/9/11, Anita Adkins <aadkins7 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey,
> You might want to check out here if you are interested in audio descriptions
> and Braille stuff and such about disney. Just FYI.
> http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guests-with-disabilities/visual/
> Anita
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Molloy" <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World
>
>
>> Thanks! I figured I would call Disney and see what they had to say,
>> but I also figured I'd ask here and see what others knew.
>> Patrick
>>
>> On 1/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Patrick,
>>>   Usually in front of your seat on a ride, there's a little bag which
>>> I'd put my foldeed cane in.  It's on the back of the seat in front of
>>> you, on most rides.  And, if they ever asked for my cane at the ride
>>> gate, I just gave it to the employee.  They always gave it back to me
>>> at the end...but you should be fine folding the dang thing and putting
>>> it in that bag, or even if you hold onto it on your lap you're
>>> probably fine.
>>>   Hope that helps,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 1/9/11, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Everyone:
>>>> My senior class is going to Disney World for our senior trip this
>>>> year. I am writing to ask if anyone who has visited Disney World can
>>>> tell me what the procedure is with a cane. I use a folding cane, and I
>>>> know there are certain rides where Disney doesn't want you carrying
>>>> anything on with you. In this case, what happens with the cane? If you
>>>> have to have someone hold the cane, what happens if the ride entrance
>>>> and exit are not in the same place?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Mon Jan 10 01:10:49 2011
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:10:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World
In-Reply-To: <6A50C26F811B4E5BA32AEC1DC7651D53@AnitaAdkinsPC>
Message-ID: <40503A46052C4318A77B31F4C0E5F1C6@SerenaPC>

Another idea: If you have a friend or acquaintance who's going and you can
get him/her to assist you around the park, he/she can hold your cane for
you.  Not that employees wouldn't give it back to you at the end, but your
friend might know better when to ask you to give it to him/her than the
employee.  The employee might ask you to give it up before you have to walk
up some steps, for example.  Hopefully, your friend would know you well
enough to let you walk as far as possible using your cane.

Serena

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Anita Adkins
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World

Hey,
You might want to check out here if you are interested in audio descriptions

and Braille stuff and such about disney. Just FYI.
http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/guests-with-disabilities/visual/
Anita
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Molloy" <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question regarding Disney World


> Thanks! I figured I would call Disney and see what they had to say,
> but I also figured I'd ask here and see what others knew.
> Patrick
>
> On 1/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Patrick,
>>   Usually in front of your seat on a ride, there's a little bag which
>> I'd put my foldeed cane in.  It's on the back of the seat in front of
>> you, on most rides.  And, if they ever asked for my cane at the ride
>> gate, I just gave it to the employee.  They always gave it back to me
>> at the end...but you should be fine folding the dang thing and putting
>> it in that bag, or even if you hold onto it on your lap you're
>> probably fine.
>>   Hope that helps,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 1/9/11, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Everyone:
>>> My senior class is going to Disney World for our senior trip this
>>> year. I am writing to ask if anyone who has visited Disney World can
>>> tell me what the procedure is with a cane. I use a folding cane, and I
>>> know there are certain rides where Disney doesn't want you carrying
>>> anything on with you. In this case, what happens with the cane? If you
>>> have to have someone hold the cane, what happens if the ride entrance
>>> and exit are not in the same place?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma
il.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail
.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.n
et 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net



From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 01:19:22 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:19:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com><60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley>
	<AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl>

?
The question I have if it's a college requirement and doesn't really pertain 
to your major should you be required to take it if it requires a lot of 
accomidations.  Should we stress our selves out twice as much as sighted 
students for something that isn't even our goals.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:05 PM
To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Hi Josh and all,

I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
other software.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
service.

For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.

My point is that I would caution against saying something is
impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.

Good luck!
Arielle

On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Josh,
> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think your voc
> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I 
> highly
> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology purchase has 
> to
> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the time you 
> need
> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you 
> think
> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
> scripting process?
> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
> accessible; some software is just not.
> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>
> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a reader to help
> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another 
> program
> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>
> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking companies to
> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a realistic
> idea.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class.
>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010
>> accessible.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 01:29:53 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:29:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl>
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com><60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley><AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6D5C3D634119450CA19D76ABB8E0A50A@Rufus>

Robert,

I think you raise a good point, but think of it this way:  Should students
at the NFB training centers take wood shop even if they never plan to go
into woodwork?  Clearly, for the centers this class is about confidence, but
just like colleges, the required courses are there to enhance general
competence.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Blachowicz
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

?
The question I have if it's a college requirement and doesn't 
really pertain 
to your major should you be required to take it if it requires a lot of 
accomidations.  Should we stress our selves out twice as much 
as sighted 
students for something that isn't even our goals.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:05 PM
To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Hi Josh and all,

I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
other software.

I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
service.

For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.

My point is that I would caution against saying something is
impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.

Good luck!
Arielle

On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Josh,
> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you 
think your voc
> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I 
> highly
> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology 
purchase has 
> to
> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the 
time you 
> need
> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you 
> think
> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
> scripting process?
> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
> accessible; some software is just not.
> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>
> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a 
reader to help
> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another 
> program
> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>
> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking 
companies to
> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a 
realistic
> idea.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project 
management class.
>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes 
ms-project2007 and 2010
>> accessible.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
ahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pre
sident%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blac
h%40hotmail.com 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Mon Jan 10 01:43:15 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:43:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl>
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com><60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley>
	<AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A31DB9B642A245C88B7D347D906ACEF5@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hello,

Here is my two cents for what it's worth. I believe the answer depends on 
whether or not the one choosing to have a class waivered is concerned with 
the blindness community or with him or herself. If it were a personal matter 
only, the answer, in my opinion, would be no. However, when we make 
decisions about what to choose as a blind person, I believe we should also 
consider our blind brothers and sisters, if we can think of those that make 
up the blindness community in that way. No. It isn't fair that we should 
have to work harder or do extra to plant ourselves as blind people on the 
same soil as the sighted folks. However, the unfortunate reality is that 
what we should or should not have to do does not always agree with what 
needs doing. So when the opportunity arises, I choose not to have classes 
waivered because one, they are accomplishable with the appropriate 
accommodations, and two, doing so means I am saying to the sighted students 
who may be future teachers, future lawyers, future service representatives I 
want to treat me equal, etc. that the challenges associated with blindness 
can be conquered, and that my job is to figure out how and that I can figure 
it out since I have done it in the past. It may be someone else who is blind 
they encounter and if one of them happens to be in a position to employ the 
blind person, maybe they will say yes because of that positive experience 
they once had where they saw that a blind person they knew long ago wasn't 
helpless or incapable of doing certain things like the stereotype says. Now, 
let me say after all that that I agree it is irritating and all that. 
Sometimes there is a time to educate, and sometimes there is a time to put 
oneself first. Both choices are right. It is up to the person to decide when 
to choose which choice depending on circumstances and other factors, but my 
hope is that decision will be based on a logical, informed decision with all 
factors being considered. There are times I choose to put myself first as 
well. And, there are those days where I am not in the mood to fight the 
challenges. I just hope that I choose to fight those challenges for the good 
of everyone more days than I choose not to. Sorry if this offends because it 
is not intended for that purpose. Thanks for the ear. Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> ?
> The question I have if it's a college requirement and doesn't really 
> pertain to your major should you be required to take it if it requires a 
> lot of accomidations.  Should we stress our selves out twice as much as 
> sighted students for something that isn't even our goals.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:05 PM
> To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Hi Josh and all,
>
> I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
> of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
> but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
> of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
> software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
> other software.
>
> I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
> people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
> they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
> educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
> possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
> assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
> statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
> possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
> service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
> with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
> service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
> or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
> religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
> service.
>
> For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
> psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
> poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
> data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
> presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
> handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
> working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
> shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
> participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
> myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
> elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
> ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
> many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
> with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
> class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
> the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
> data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
> tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
> teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
> decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
> identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
> that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
> similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
> paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
> don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
> work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>
> My point is that I would caution against saying something is
> impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
> course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
> the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
> comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
> options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>
> Good luck!
> Arielle
>
> On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think your voc
>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I 
>> highly
>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology purchase has 
>> to
>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the time you 
>> need
>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you 
>> think
>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
>> scripting process?
>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
>> accessible; some software is just not.
>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>
>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a reader to 
>> help
>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another 
>> program
>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>
>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking companies to
>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a realistic
>> idea.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class.
>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010
>>> accessible.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
> 



From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 01:43:45 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:43:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <6D5C3D634119450CA19D76ABB8E0A50A@Rufus>
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com>
	<60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley>
	<AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<6D5C3D634119450CA19D76ABB8E0A50A@Rufus>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik6dMacy8gGqCPr9U5fB=s5qqLJKcC5FsMOye8K@mail.gmail.com>

I would say, yes, simply because you will need to prove that you are
able to handle almost any task thrown at you in the workplace.
Everyone has different challenges; the rules should not be different.
Granted, I would have loved to be exempt from certain requirements
that required accommodations that I didn't necessarily need, but it
would have been taking the easy way out.

On 1/9/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> I think you raise a good point, but think of it this way:  Should students
> at the NFB training centers take wood shop even if they never plan to go
> into woodwork?  Clearly, for the centers this class is about confidence, but
> just like colleges, the required courses are there to enhance general
> competence.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Blachowicz
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:19 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> ?
> The question I have if it's a college requirement and doesn't
> really pertain
> to your major should you be required to take it if it requires a lot of
> accomidations.  Should we stress our selves out twice as much
> as sighted
> students for something that isn't even our goals.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:05 PM
> To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Hi Josh and all,
>
> I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
> of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
> but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
> of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
> software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
> other software.
>
> I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
> people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
> they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
> educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
> possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
> assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
> statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
> possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
> service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
> with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
> service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
> or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
> religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
> service.
>
> For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
> psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
> poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
> data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
> presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
> handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
> working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
> shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
> participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
> myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
> elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
> ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
> many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
> with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
> class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
> the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
> data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
> tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
> teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
> decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
> identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
> that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
> similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
> paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
> don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
> work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>
> My point is that I would caution against saying something is
> impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
> course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
> the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
> comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
> options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>
> Good luck!
> Arielle
>
> On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you
> think your voc
>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I
>> highly
>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology
> purchase has
>> to
>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the
> time you
>> need
>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you
>> think
>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
>> scripting process?
>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
>> accessible; some software is just not.
>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>
>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a
> reader to help
>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another
>> program
>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>
>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking
> companies to
>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a
> realistic
>> idea.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project
> management class.
>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes
> ms-project2007 and 2010
>>> accessible.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
> ahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pre
> sident%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blac
> h%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor


From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 01:54:38 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:54:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik6dMacy8gGqCPr9U5fB=s5qqLJKcC5FsMOye8K@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com><60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley><AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com><BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl><6D5C3D634119450CA19D76ABB8E0A50A@Rufus>
	<AANLkTik6dMacy8gGqCPr9U5fB=s5qqLJKcC5FsMOye8K@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS24CA3FB288524C3A98BC88B0E0@phx.gbl>


and that’s one thing I disagree with NFB on and what made me not want to 
join in the first place is this issue what's wrong with the easy road once 
ina  while we have enough other crap to deal with.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Robert Spangler
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:43 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

I would say, yes, simply because you will need to prove that you are
able to handle almost any task thrown at you in the workplace.
Everyone has different challenges; the rules should not be different.
Granted, I would have loved to be exempt from certain requirements
that required accommodations that I didn't necessarily need, but it
would have been taking the easy way out.

On 1/9/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> I think you raise a good point, but think of it this way:  Should students
> at the NFB training centers take wood shop even if they never plan to go
> into woodwork?  Clearly, for the centers this class is about confidence, 
> but
> just like colleges, the required courses are there to enhance general
> competence.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rob Blachowicz
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:19 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> ?
> The question I have if it's a college requirement and doesn't
> really pertain
> to your major should you be required to take it if it requires a lot of
> accomidations.  Should we stress our selves out twice as much
> as sighted
> students for something that isn't even our goals.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:05 PM
> To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Hi Josh and all,
>
> I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
> of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
> but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
> of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
> software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
> other software.
>
> I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
> people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
> they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
> educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
> possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
> assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
> statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
> possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
> service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
> with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
> service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
> or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
> religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
> service.
>
> For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
> psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
> poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
> data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
> presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
> handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
> working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
> shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
> participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
> myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
> elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
> ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
> many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
> with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
> class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
> the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
> data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
> tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
> teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
> decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
> identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
> that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
> similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
> paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
> don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
> work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>
> My point is that I would caution against saying something is
> impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
> course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
> the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
> comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
> options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>
> Good luck!
> Arielle
>
> On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you
> think your voc
>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I
>> highly
>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology
> purchase has
>> to
>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the
> time you
>> need
>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you
>> think
>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
>> scripting process?
>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
>> accessible; some software is just not.
>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>
>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a
> reader to help
>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another
>> program
>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>
>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking
> companies to
>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a
> realistic
>> idea.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project
> management class.
>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes
> ms-project2007 and 2010
>>> accessible.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
> ahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pre
> sident%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blac
> h%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 01:56:34 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:56:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <A31DB9B642A245C88B7D347D906ACEF5@AnitaAdkinsPC>
References: <4D2A08CB.10608@gmail.com><60C66CDFFB8743D98A271444041EF9D1@Ashley><AANLkTikvkd=o8F7OSWCTpG=8X2XNW2T7rq7004YpYK9k@mail.gmail.com><BAY130-DS2F0542B2BD9402460396B8B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<A31DB9B642A245C88B7D347D906ACEF5@AnitaAdkinsPC>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS5F2044E32B272F8E227838B0E0@phx.gbl>


The other thing I wanted to question is equility equil or is it the right to 
be an individual.  That’s the one question I have for all of us.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Anita Adkins
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:43 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Hello,

Here is my two cents for what it's worth. I believe the answer depends on
whether or not the one choosing to have a class waivered is concerned with
the blindness community or with him or herself. If it were a personal matter
only, the answer, in my opinion, would be no. However, when we make
decisions about what to choose as a blind person, I believe we should also
consider our blind brothers and sisters, if we can think of those that make
up the blindness community in that way. No. It isn't fair that we should
have to work harder or do extra to plant ourselves as blind people on the
same soil as the sighted folks. However, the unfortunate reality is that
what we should or should not have to do does not always agree with what
needs doing. So when the opportunity arises, I choose not to have classes
waivered because one, they are accomplishable with the appropriate
accommodations, and two, doing so means I am saying to the sighted students
who may be future teachers, future lawyers, future service representatives I
want to treat me equal, etc. that the challenges associated with blindness
can be conquered, and that my job is to figure out how and that I can figure
it out since I have done it in the past. It may be someone else who is blind
they encounter and if one of them happens to be in a position to employ the
blind person, maybe they will say yes because of that positive experience
they once had where they saw that a blind person they knew long ago wasn't
helpless or incapable of doing certain things like the stereotype says. Now,
let me say after all that that I agree it is irritating and all that.
Sometimes there is a time to educate, and sometimes there is a time to put
oneself first. Both choices are right. It is up to the person to decide when
to choose which choice depending on circumstances and other factors, but my
hope is that decision will be based on a logical, informed decision with all
factors being considered. There are times I choose to put myself first as
well. And, there are those days where I am not in the mood to fight the
challenges. I just hope that I choose to fight those challenges for the good
of everyone more days than I choose not to. Sorry if this offends because it
is not intended for that purpose. Thanks for the ear. Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> ?
> The question I have if it's a college requirement and doesn't really 
> pertain to your major should you be required to take it if it requires a 
> lot of accomidations.  Should we stress our selves out twice as much as 
> sighted students for something that isn't even our goals.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 4:05 PM
> To: Ashley Bramlett ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Hi Josh and all,
>
> I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived because
> of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned already,
> but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the help
> of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of necessary
> software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than SuperNova or
> other software.
>
> I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and sighted
> people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task independently,
> they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who were
> educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success is
> possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and other
> assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in their
> statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
> possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to provide a
> service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or working
> with volunteers from an organization that requires them to complete
> service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and sororities
> or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
> religious organizations require their members to perform volunteer
> service.
>
> For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral program in
> psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or make
> poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter the
> data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
> presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
> handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so by
> working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a real
> shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
> participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
> myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
> elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once and
> ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class. Yet
> many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who help
> with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
> class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still performing
> the important work. I still independently develop the content for my
> data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on their
> tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The blind
> teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one who
> decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they are
> identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to remember
> that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
> similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
> paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted classmates
> don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do often
> work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>
> My point is that I would caution against saying something is
> impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
> course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible out of
> the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
> comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
> options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>
> Good luck!
> Arielle
>
> On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think your voc
>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one class?  I 
>> highly
>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to buy
>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology purchase has 
>> to
>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make them
>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the time you 
>> need
>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would, do you 
>> think
>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of the
>> scripting process?
>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is rendered
>> accessible; some software is just not.
>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind people
>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>
>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a reader to 
>> help
>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use another 
>> program
>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>
>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking companies to
>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a realistic
>> idea.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management class.
>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their readers
>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me supernova.
>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007 and 2010
>>> accessible.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net
>


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 10 01:57:49 2011
From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:57:49 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server>

Hello humberto,
You have raised an interesting question, but I think my analysis leads me to 
a different conclusion than you reach.  My thinking is that if one is a 
blind person working in, or hoping to work in the private sector, efficiency 
is much more important than independence.  If you as a blind person can do a 
job "independently" as quickly as a sighted person can do the job, or as 
quickly as you can do it as a blind person with sighted assistance, then you 
are golden.  However, if you are functioning independently, but working 
slower than a sighted person, then you are not independent.  Why should I as 
an employer be happy about writing you a paycheck when you took longer to do 
the job, and cost me more money than would have been true if you were a 
sighted employee?  How is your independence supposed to make me feel better 
about the higher cost of hiring you?

The post which initiated this discussion concerned using M.S. Project with a 
screen reader.  I have some experience with this program, and no one is 
going to be able to use most of the features of this program with a screen 
reader.  Among other things it displays pert and ghant charts to convey 
information about a project, it uses diagrams to convey critical path 
analysis, etc.  Its purpose is to use relational pictures to quickly convey 
project flow and bottlenecks.  How can a screen reader be used to convey 
this kind of pictorial information?

Perhaps at some time in the future, way in the future, we will be able to 
load up every blind person with all the hardware and software necessary to 
make us virtually sighted, and therefore "independent."  For this to 
actually happen, technology for sighted people is going to need to come to a 
screeching halt, so that we can have the necessary time to adapt what is 
already there to make it accessible.  Consider this.  If technology 
continues to evolve for sighted people, and if we assume at least an 18 
month delay to make the existing products accessible to us, we will always 
be 18 months behind our sighted colleagues.  Moreover, the lifecycle of 
today's products is hardly longer than 18 months, so by the time our 
adaptive software and hardware is available, the next release is sold to the 
employers and sighted public and we are once again behind, and not 
independent.   Of course we cannot halt continuing development for sighted 
people, so our ability to access and use products in the work place 
independently, is going to continue to lag behind unless manufacturers can 
be forced to make their products accessible to the blind the day they are 
released to the sighted public generally.  I think, though possibly 
incorrectly, that the NFB is opposed to forcing manufacturers to make their 
products accessible to us, so what is the solution.

I also wonder how blind people are going to become rich enough to buy all 
these independence goodies.  What portion of the NFB membership or blind 
people in this country are living on either SSI or SSDI?  I think this 
places us as a group way below the poverty level, and unless something 
changes in a major way, I don't see many of us owning homes, automated cars 
which will drive us around, or even the software and hardware we need to 
make us functional, let alone independent.  An idea or "philosophy" if we 
want to elevate the independence idea to this level, is only valid or 
worthwhile, if it can withstand reality testing.  If it cannot, then it is 
nothing more than a fantasy which is interfering with our progress, not 
advancing it.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "humberto" <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Hello all.
> I can understand your points about readers and being able to get 
> assistance in college. I understand that even sighted people request 
> assistance, I don't blame them for that. I know things can be done this 
> way, but isn't it the goal of the National Federation of the blind and the 
> blind ourselves to be as independent as the sighted? Can't we do and fight 
> for our freedom just like the sighted?
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
>>To: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>, National
> Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:05:53 -0700
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>>Hi Josh and all,
>
>>I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived
> because
>>of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned
> already,
>>but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the
> help
>>of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of
> necessary
>>software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than
> SuperNova or
>>other software.
>
>>I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and
> sighted
>>people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task
> independently,
>>they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who
> were
>>educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success
> is
>>possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and
> other
>>assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in
> their
>>statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
>>possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to
> provide a
>>service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or
> working
>>with volunteers from an organization that requires them to
> complete
>>service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and
> sororities
>>or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
>>religious organizations require their members to perform
> volunteer
>>service.
>
>>For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral
> program in
>>psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or
> make
>>poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter
> the
>>data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
>>presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
>>handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so
> by
>>working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a
> real
>>shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
>>participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
>>myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
>>elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once
> and
>>ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class.
> Yet
>>many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who
> help
>>with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
>>class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still
> performing
>>the important work. I still independently develop the content for
> my
>>data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on
> their
>>tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The
> blind
>>teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one
> who
>>decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they
> are
>>identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to
> remember
>>that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
>>similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
>>paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted
> classmates
>>don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do
> often
>>work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>
>>My point is that I would caution against saying something is
>>impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
>>course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible
> out of
>>the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
>>comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
>>options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>
>>Good luck!
>>Arielle
>
>>On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Josh,
>>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think
> your voc
>>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one
> class?  I highly
>>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to
> buy
>>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology
> purchase has to
>>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make
> them
>>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the
> time you need
>>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would,
> do you think
>>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of
> the
>>> scripting process?
>>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is
> rendered
>>> accessible; some software is just not.
>>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind
> people
>>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>
>>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a
> reader to help
>>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use
> another program
>>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>
>>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking
> companies to
>>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a
> realistic
>>> idea.
>
>>> Ashley
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>>>> Hi
>
>>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management
> class.
>>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their
> readers
>>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me
> supernova.
>>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007
> and 2010
>>>> accessible.
>
>>>> Josh
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma
> hb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres
> ident%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>>--
>>Arielle Silverman
>>President, National Association of Blind Students
>>Phone:  602-502-2255
>>Email:
>>nabs.president at gmail.com
>>Website:
>>www.nabslink.org
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
> 5369%40netzero.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net 



From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:04:36 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:04:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server>
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net>
	<002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>

?
There it is.  This is what I was pointing out.  If a course isn't needed for 
your major like a "filler course as there called" why should you waist your 
time being non-productive.  It's like putting a person at a job their not 
good at.  So lets say I had two blind people joe and Frank.  Joe was good at 
filing papers and Frank wasn't and fumbled and had a hard time and even with 
training himself didn't really pick up speed.  So are all blind people the 
same or should we be fighting that we are all different and that we should 
be looked as such.
Rob
-----Original Message----- 
From: Dennis Clark
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Hello humberto,
You have raised an interesting question, but I think my analysis leads me to
a different conclusion than you reach.  My thinking is that if one is a
blind person working in, or hoping to work in the private sector, efficiency
is much more important than independence.  If you as a blind person can do a
job "independently" as quickly as a sighted person can do the job, or as
quickly as you can do it as a blind person with sighted assistance, then you
are golden.  However, if you are functioning independently, but working
slower than a sighted person, then you are not independent.  Why should I as
an employer be happy about writing you a paycheck when you took longer to do
the job, and cost me more money than would have been true if you were a
sighted employee?  How is your independence supposed to make me feel better
about the higher cost of hiring you?

The post which initiated this discussion concerned using M.S. Project with a
screen reader.  I have some experience with this program, and no one is
going to be able to use most of the features of this program with a screen
reader.  Among other things it displays pert and ghant charts to convey
information about a project, it uses diagrams to convey critical path
analysis, etc.  Its purpose is to use relational pictures to quickly convey
project flow and bottlenecks.  How can a screen reader be used to convey
this kind of pictorial information?

Perhaps at some time in the future, way in the future, we will be able to
load up every blind person with all the hardware and software necessary to
make us virtually sighted, and therefore "independent."  For this to
actually happen, technology for sighted people is going to need to come to a
screeching halt, so that we can have the necessary time to adapt what is
already there to make it accessible.  Consider this.  If technology
continues to evolve for sighted people, and if we assume at least an 18
month delay to make the existing products accessible to us, we will always
be 18 months behind our sighted colleagues.  Moreover, the lifecycle of
today's products is hardly longer than 18 months, so by the time our
adaptive software and hardware is available, the next release is sold to the
employers and sighted public and we are once again behind, and not
independent.   Of course we cannot halt continuing development for sighted
people, so our ability to access and use products in the work place
independently, is going to continue to lag behind unless manufacturers can
be forced to make their products accessible to the blind the day they are
released to the sighted public generally.  I think, though possibly
incorrectly, that the NFB is opposed to forcing manufacturers to make their
products accessible to us, so what is the solution.

I also wonder how blind people are going to become rich enough to buy all
these independence goodies.  What portion of the NFB membership or blind
people in this country are living on either SSI or SSDI?  I think this
places us as a group way below the poverty level, and unless something
changes in a major way, I don't see many of us owning homes, automated cars
which will drive us around, or even the software and hardware we need to
make us functional, let alone independent.  An idea or "philosophy" if we
want to elevate the independence idea to this level, is only valid or
worthwhile, if it can withstand reality testing.  If it cannot, then it is
nothing more than a fantasy which is interfering with our progress, not
advancing it.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "humberto" <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Hello all.
> I can understand your points about readers and being able to get 
> assistance in college. I understand that even sighted people request 
> assistance, I don't blame them for that. I know things can be done this 
> way, but isn't it the goal of the National Federation of the blind and the 
> blind ourselves to be as independent as the sighted? Can't we do and fight 
> for our freedom just like the sighted?
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
>>To: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>, National
> Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:05:53 -0700
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>>Hi Josh and all,
>
>>I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived
> because
>>of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned
> already,
>>but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the
> help
>>of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of
> necessary
>>software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than
> SuperNova or
>>other software.
>
>>I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and
> sighted
>>people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task
> independently,
>>they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who
> were
>>educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success
> is
>>possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and
> other
>>assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in
> their
>>statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
>>possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to
> provide a
>>service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or
> working
>>with volunteers from an organization that requires them to
> complete
>>service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and
> sororities
>>or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
>>religious organizations require their members to perform
> volunteer
>>service.
>
>>For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral
> program in
>>psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or
> make
>>poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter
> the
>>data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
>>presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
>>handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so
> by
>>working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a
> real
>>shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
>>participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
>>myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
>>elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once
> and
>>ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class.
> Yet
>>many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who
> help
>>with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
>>class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still
> performing
>>the important work. I still independently develop the content for
> my
>>data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on
> their
>>tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The
> blind
>>teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one
> who
>>decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they
> are
>>identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to
> remember
>>that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
>>similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
>>paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted
> classmates
>>don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do
> often
>>work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>
>>My point is that I would caution against saying something is
>>impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
>>course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible
> out of
>>the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
>>comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
>>options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>
>>Good luck!
>>Arielle
>
>>On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Josh,
>>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think
> your voc
>>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one
> class?  I highly
>>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to
> buy
>>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology
> purchase has to
>>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make
> them
>>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the
> time you need
>>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would,
> do you think
>>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of
> the
>>> scripting process?
>>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is
> rendered
>>> accessible; some software is just not.
>>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind
> people
>>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>
>>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a
> reader to help
>>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use
> another program
>>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>
>>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking
> companies to
>>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a
> realistic
>>> idea.
>
>>> Ashley
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>>>> Hi
>
>>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management
> class.
>>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their
> readers
>>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me
> supernova.
>>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007
> and 2010
>>>> accessible.
>
>>>> Josh
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma
> hb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres
> ident%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>>--
>>Arielle Silverman
>>President, National Association of Blind Students
>>Phone:  602-502-2255
>>Email:
>>nabs.president at gmail.com
>>Website:
>>www.nabslink.org
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
> 5369%40netzero.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From kea.anderson at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:12:27 2011
From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:12:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate for Washington Seminar
In-Reply-To: <mailman.107982.1294625132.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.107982.1294625132.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <4d2a6b0e.5242ec0a.2ece.56d8@mx.google.com>

Hi everyone,

A friend and I are looking for roommates for Washington Seminar. We already
have a room and are hoping to cut costs by sharing with another person or
two. If anyone is interested, please email me off list at
Kea.anderson at gmail.com
The room is reserved for Sunday through Tuesday nights.

Thanks,

Karen Anderson




From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Jan 10 02:18:40 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:18:40 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server>
	<BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3C43A29846B844E18BE3268FE0EDFE2E@stanford.edu>

Okay, I am trying to tread carefully here. As a person who is blind, I do 
not like to admit that there are things that I cannot do. In most cases, 
that is not true. If there is a will, there is a way. However, I do admit 
that there is a limit to this. There are things that I cannot do. I am not 
going to name them here because I do not want to start a debate, as this 
limit is different for all of us. However, I do think that how something 
could be achieved should at least be considered before just saying that it 
is not possible.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> ?
> There it is.  This is what I was pointing out.  If a course isn't needed 
> for your major like a "filler course as there called" why should you waist 
> your time being non-productive.  It's like putting a person at a job their 
> not good at.  So lets say I had two blind people joe and Frank.  Joe was 
> good at filing papers and Frank wasn't and fumbled and had a hard time and 
> even with training himself didn't really pick up speed.  So are all blind 
> people the same or should we be fighting that we are all different and 
> that we should be looked as such.
> Rob
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Dennis Clark
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Hello humberto,
> You have raised an interesting question, but I think my analysis leads me 
> to
> a different conclusion than you reach.  My thinking is that if one is a
> blind person working in, or hoping to work in the private sector, 
> efficiency
> is much more important than independence.  If you as a blind person can do 
> a
> job "independently" as quickly as a sighted person can do the job, or as
> quickly as you can do it as a blind person with sighted assistance, then 
> you
> are golden.  However, if you are functioning independently, but working
> slower than a sighted person, then you are not independent.  Why should I 
> as
> an employer be happy about writing you a paycheck when you took longer to 
> do
> the job, and cost me more money than would have been true if you were a
> sighted employee?  How is your independence supposed to make me feel 
> better
> about the higher cost of hiring you?
>
> The post which initiated this discussion concerned using M.S. Project with 
> a
> screen reader.  I have some experience with this program, and no one is
> going to be able to use most of the features of this program with a screen
> reader.  Among other things it displays pert and ghant charts to convey
> information about a project, it uses diagrams to convey critical path
> analysis, etc.  Its purpose is to use relational pictures to quickly 
> convey
> project flow and bottlenecks.  How can a screen reader be used to convey
> this kind of pictorial information?
>
> Perhaps at some time in the future, way in the future, we will be able to
> load up every blind person with all the hardware and software necessary to
> make us virtually sighted, and therefore "independent."  For this to
> actually happen, technology for sighted people is going to need to come to 
> a
> screeching halt, so that we can have the necessary time to adapt what is
> already there to make it accessible.  Consider this.  If technology
> continues to evolve for sighted people, and if we assume at least an 18
> month delay to make the existing products accessible to us, we will always
> be 18 months behind our sighted colleagues.  Moreover, the lifecycle of
> today's products is hardly longer than 18 months, so by the time our
> adaptive software and hardware is available, the next release is sold to 
> the
> employers and sighted public and we are once again behind, and not
> independent.   Of course we cannot halt continuing development for sighted
> people, so our ability to access and use products in the work place
> independently, is going to continue to lag behind unless manufacturers can
> be forced to make their products accessible to the blind the day they are
> released to the sighted public generally.  I think, though possibly
> incorrectly, that the NFB is opposed to forcing manufacturers to make 
> their
> products accessible to us, so what is the solution.
>
> I also wonder how blind people are going to become rich enough to buy all
> these independence goodies.  What portion of the NFB membership or blind
> people in this country are living on either SSI or SSDI?  I think this
> places us as a group way below the poverty level, and unless something
> changes in a major way, I don't see many of us owning homes, automated 
> cars
> which will drive us around, or even the software and hardware we need to
> make us functional, let alone independent.  An idea or "philosophy" if we
> want to elevate the independence idea to this level, is only valid or
> worthwhile, if it can withstand reality testing.  If it cannot, then it is
> nothing more than a fantasy which is interfering with our progress, not
> advancing it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "humberto" <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> Hello all.
>> I can understand your points about readers and being able to get 
>> assistance in college. I understand that even sighted people request 
>> assistance, I don't blame them for that. I know things can be done this 
>> way, but isn't it the goal of the National Federation of the blind and 
>> the blind ourselves to be as independent as the sighted? Can't we do and 
>> fight for our freedom just like the sighted?
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>To: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>, National
>> Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:05:53 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>>Hi Josh and all,
>>
>>>I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived
>> because
>>>of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned
>> already,
>>>but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the
>> help
>>>of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of
>> necessary
>>>software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than
>> SuperNova or
>>>other software.
>>
>>>I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and
>> sighted
>>>people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task
>> independently,
>>>they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who
>> were
>>>educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success
>> is
>>>possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and
>> other
>>>assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in
>> their
>>>statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
>>>possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to
>> provide a
>>>service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or
>> working
>>>with volunteers from an organization that requires them to
>> complete
>>>service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and
>> sororities
>>>or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
>>>religious organizations require their members to perform
>> volunteer
>>>service.
>>
>>>For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral
>> program in
>>>psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or
>> make
>>>poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter
>> the
>>>data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
>>>presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
>>>handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so
>> by
>>>working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a
>> real
>>>shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
>>>participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
>>>myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
>>>elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once
>> and
>>>ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class.
>> Yet
>>>many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who
>> help
>>>with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
>>>class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still
>> performing
>>>the important work. I still independently develop the content for
>> my
>>>data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on
>> their
>>>tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The
>> blind
>>>teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one
>> who
>>>decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they
>> are
>>>identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to
>> remember
>>>that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
>>>similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
>>>paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted
>> classmates
>>>don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do
>> often
>>>work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>>
>>>My point is that I would caution against saying something is
>>>impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
>>>course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible
>> out of
>>>the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
>>>comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
>>>options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>>
>>>Good luck!
>>>Arielle
>>
>>>On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Josh,
>>>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think
>> your voc
>>>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one
>> class?  I highly
>>>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to
>> buy
>>>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology
>> purchase has to
>>>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>>>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make
>> them
>>>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the
>> time you need
>>>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would,
>> do you think
>>>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of
>> the
>>>> scripting process?
>>>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is
>> rendered
>>>> accessible; some software is just not.
>>>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind
>> people
>>>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>
>>>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a
>> reader to help
>>>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use
>> another program
>>>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>
>>>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking
>> companies to
>>>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a
>> realistic
>>>> idea.
>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>>>> Hi
>>
>>>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management
>> class.
>>>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their
>> readers
>>>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me
>> supernova.
>>>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007
>> and 2010
>>>>> accessible.
>>
>>>>> Josh
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma
>> hb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres
>> ident%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>Arielle Silverman
>>>President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>Email:
>>>nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>Website:
>>>www.nabslink.org
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>> 5369%40netzero.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Jan 10 02:19:23 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:19:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [nfbcs] Mac Questions
Message-ID: <BB26FECFF19D46128E0F13FB6A601CF2@stanford.edu>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "NFBCS Mailing List List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 9:18 PM
Subject: [nfbcs] Mac Questions


> Can someone who has a Mac email me off list?
>
> Thanks,
> Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nfbcs:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:21:59 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:21:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <3C43A29846B844E18BE3268FE0EDFE2E@stanford.edu>
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<3C43A29846B844E18BE3268FE0EDFE2E@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS17BD2D62A67E4FBD0FA5278B0E0@phx.gbl>


I will mostly agree but I think that it's harder to do and the thing that 
needs doing may not be something that’s absolutly nessessary or something 
that we might not even want to do.  Another words should there always be a 
need for a the will to do something.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Okay, I am trying to tread carefully here. As a person who is blind, I do
not like to admit that there are things that I cannot do. In most cases,
that is not true. If there is a will, there is a way. However, I do admit
that there is a limit to this. There are things that I cannot do. I am not
going to name them here because I do not want to start a debate, as this
limit is different for all of us. However, I do think that how something
could be achieved should at least be considered before just saying that it
is not possible.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> ?
> There it is.  This is what I was pointing out.  If a course isn't needed 
> for your major like a "filler course as there called" why should you waist 
> your time being non-productive.  It's like putting a person at a job their 
> not good at.  So lets say I had two blind people joe and Frank.  Joe was 
> good at filing papers and Frank wasn't and fumbled and had a hard time and 
> even with training himself didn't really pick up speed.  So are all blind 
> people the same or should we be fighting that we are all different and 
> that we should be looked as such.
> Rob
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Dennis Clark
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Hello humberto,
> You have raised an interesting question, but I think my analysis leads me 
> to
> a different conclusion than you reach.  My thinking is that if one is a
> blind person working in, or hoping to work in the private sector, 
> efficiency
> is much more important than independence.  If you as a blind person can do 
> a
> job "independently" as quickly as a sighted person can do the job, or as
> quickly as you can do it as a blind person with sighted assistance, then 
> you
> are golden.  However, if you are functioning independently, but working
> slower than a sighted person, then you are not independent.  Why should I 
> as
> an employer be happy about writing you a paycheck when you took longer to 
> do
> the job, and cost me more money than would have been true if you were a
> sighted employee?  How is your independence supposed to make me feel 
> better
> about the higher cost of hiring you?
>
> The post which initiated this discussion concerned using M.S. Project with 
> a
> screen reader.  I have some experience with this program, and no one is
> going to be able to use most of the features of this program with a screen
> reader.  Among other things it displays pert and ghant charts to convey
> information about a project, it uses diagrams to convey critical path
> analysis, etc.  Its purpose is to use relational pictures to quickly 
> convey
> project flow and bottlenecks.  How can a screen reader be used to convey
> this kind of pictorial information?
>
> Perhaps at some time in the future, way in the future, we will be able to
> load up every blind person with all the hardware and software necessary to
> make us virtually sighted, and therefore "independent."  For this to
> actually happen, technology for sighted people is going to need to come to 
> a
> screeching halt, so that we can have the necessary time to adapt what is
> already there to make it accessible.  Consider this.  If technology
> continues to evolve for sighted people, and if we assume at least an 18
> month delay to make the existing products accessible to us, we will always
> be 18 months behind our sighted colleagues.  Moreover, the lifecycle of
> today's products is hardly longer than 18 months, so by the time our
> adaptive software and hardware is available, the next release is sold to 
> the
> employers and sighted public and we are once again behind, and not
> independent.   Of course we cannot halt continuing development for sighted
> people, so our ability to access and use products in the work place
> independently, is going to continue to lag behind unless manufacturers can
> be forced to make their products accessible to the blind the day they are
> released to the sighted public generally.  I think, though possibly
> incorrectly, that the NFB is opposed to forcing manufacturers to make 
> their
> products accessible to us, so what is the solution.
>
> I also wonder how blind people are going to become rich enough to buy all
> these independence goodies.  What portion of the NFB membership or blind
> people in this country are living on either SSI or SSDI?  I think this
> places us as a group way below the poverty level, and unless something
> changes in a major way, I don't see many of us owning homes, automated 
> cars
> which will drive us around, or even the software and hardware we need to
> make us functional, let alone independent.  An idea or "philosophy" if we
> want to elevate the independence idea to this level, is only valid or
> worthwhile, if it can withstand reality testing.  If it cannot, then it is
> nothing more than a fantasy which is interfering with our progress, not
> advancing it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "humberto" <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> Hello all.
>> I can understand your points about readers and being able to get 
>> assistance in college. I understand that even sighted people request 
>> assistance, I don't blame them for that. I know things can be done this 
>> way, but isn't it the goal of the National Federation of the blind and 
>> the blind ourselves to be as independent as the sighted? Can't we do and 
>> fight for our freedom just like the sighted?
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>To: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>, National
>> Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:05:53 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>>Hi Josh and all,
>>
>>>I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived
>> because
>>>of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned
>> already,
>>>but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the
>> help
>>>of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of
>> necessary
>>>software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than
>> SuperNova or
>>>other software.
>>
>>>I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and
>> sighted
>>>people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task
>> independently,
>>>they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who
>> were
>>>educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success
>> is
>>>possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and
>> other
>>>assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in
>> their
>>>statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
>>>possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to
>> provide a
>>>service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or
>> working
>>>with volunteers from an organization that requires them to
>> complete
>>>service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and
>> sororities
>>>or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
>>>religious organizations require their members to perform
>> volunteer
>>>service.
>>
>>>For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral
>> program in
>>>psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or
>> make
>>>poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter
>> the
>>>data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
>>>presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
>>>handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so
>> by
>>>working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a
>> real
>>>shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
>>>participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
>>>myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
>>>elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once
>> and
>>>ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class.
>> Yet
>>>many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who
>> help
>>>with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
>>>class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still
>> performing
>>>the important work. I still independently develop the content for
>> my
>>>data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on
>> their
>>>tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The
>> blind
>>>teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one
>> who
>>>decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they
>> are
>>>identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to
>> remember
>>>that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
>>>similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
>>>paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted
>> classmates
>>>don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do
>> often
>>>work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>>
>>>My point is that I would caution against saying something is
>>>impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
>>>course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible
>> out of
>>>the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
>>>comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
>>>options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>>
>>>Good luck!
>>>Arielle
>>
>>>On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Josh,
>>>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think
>> your voc
>>>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one
>> class?  I highly
>>>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to
>> buy
>>>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology
>> purchase has to
>>>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>>>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make
>> them
>>>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the
>> time you need
>>>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would,
>> do you think
>>>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of
>> the
>>>> scripting process?
>>>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is
>> rendered
>>>> accessible; some software is just not.
>>>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind
>> people
>>>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>
>>>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a
>> reader to help
>>>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use
>> another program
>>>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>
>>>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking
>> companies to
>>>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a
>> realistic
>>>> idea.
>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>>>> Hi
>>
>>>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management
>> class.
>>>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their
>> readers
>>>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me
>> supernova.
>>>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007
>> and 2010
>>>>> accessible.
>>
>>>>> Josh
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma
>> hb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres
>> ident%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>Arielle Silverman
>>>President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>Email:
>>>nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>Website:
>>>www.nabslink.org
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>> 5369%40netzero.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:41:34 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:41:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server>
	<BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus>

Dennis,

The NFB is not opposed to manufacturers making things accessible to us.  I'm
not challenging you, but where did you get that perception?  I think it'd be
worth us exploring the literature for possible confusion or slapping the
person upside the head for misleading you.  I think the fact that the NFB
has gone after airlines, universities and test agencies is indicative of a
group that is trying to make more products accessible to us all.

Robert,

No one is rejecting the notion that we're all different in our capacities as
blind individuals.  Yet, you have to recognize that it's far easier for us
to, like Nicole pointed out, assume that something is impossible than it is
for us to give it an extra push to understand the concepts of how something
works and potentially learn it.  We can't have it both ways in expecting
employers to see us as equal to our sighted fellow applicants but advance
the caveat that there are some things that we're not prepared to make an
effort at learning.  Does this mean we idiotically go out and do things just
to prove a point?  Perhaps there are some people who do this, but most of us
would rather emphasize our efficiency.

At one of my jobs I had a supervisor who once handed me a stack of checks
and asked me to enter their numbers into our system.  This would have
involved me sitting there and scanning each individual check with potential
glitches in OCR.  Could I have done it?  Yes, but it would have taken her
less than half the time to get the job done.  I traded her tasks, and we
achieved the overall assignment with less fuss.

But, people have to be willing to make an effort.  I think those of us with
experience with MS Project have all agreed it is largely inaccessible.  Yet,
who are we to know that maybe Josh won't be the guy who will have a bright
idea and find a solution to it?  Maybe he will find someone who will make
scripts available to make the non-graphical representations at least more
accessible to us.

Anyway, just my twenty dollar's worth.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 



From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:41:44 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:41:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <BAY130-DS17BD2D62A67E4FBD0FA5278B0E0@phx.gbl>
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net>
	<002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server>
	<BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<3C43A29846B844E18BE3268FE0EDFE2E@stanford.edu>
	<BAY130-DS17BD2D62A67E4FBD0FA5278B0E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinxgUD9RVBjdVsyNn5A_VFEW44pObC4N-aDu1dA@mail.gmail.com>

Wa wa wa, I have so much crap to deal with, I'm the poor disadvantaged
blind person, everyone have pity on me...

LOL...

Sorry - couldn't resist.

Seriously, though, in the grand scheme of things, whether you are
blind or not - no one gives a damn.  Ultimately, we've all got to fend
for ourselves and no one, I repeat no one, should be permitted to skip
up a requirement in a program because they are blind.  Being blind
does not make us special; thus, we deserve no special exceptions.  Of
course, there's the obvious; if you have to take a course that
requires that you look through a telescope or something, that is
clearly something that we cannot do; therefore, different arrangements
may need to be made.

Sorry if the post seems harsh but I have little tolerance for people
who whine about their blindness and "all the crap we have to deal
with."

Thanks,
Robby

On 1/9/11, Rob Blachowicz <rob_blach at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I will mostly agree but I think that it's harder to do and the thing that
> needs doing may not be something that’s absolutly nessessary or something
> that we might not even want to do.  Another words should there always be a
> need for a the will to do something.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:18 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Okay, I am trying to tread carefully here. As a person who is blind, I do
> not like to admit that there are things that I cannot do. In most cases,
> that is not true. If there is a will, there is a way. However, I do admit
> that there is a limit to this. There are things that I cannot do. I am not
> going to name them here because I do not want to start a debate, as this
> limit is different for all of us. However, I do think that how something
> could be achieved should at least be considered before just saying that it
> is not possible.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> ?
>> There it is.  This is what I was pointing out.  If a course isn't needed
>> for your major like a "filler course as there called" why should you waist
>>
>> your time being non-productive.  It's like putting a person at a job their
>>
>> not good at.  So lets say I had two blind people joe and Frank.  Joe was
>> good at filing papers and Frank wasn't and fumbled and had a hard time and
>>
>> even with training himself didn't really pick up speed.  So are all blind
>> people the same or should we be fighting that we are all different and
>> that we should be looked as such.
>> Rob
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dennis Clark
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 8:57 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>> Hello humberto,
>> You have raised an interesting question, but I think my analysis leads me
>> to
>> a different conclusion than you reach.  My thinking is that if one is a
>> blind person working in, or hoping to work in the private sector,
>> efficiency
>> is much more important than independence.  If you as a blind person can do
>>
>> a
>> job "independently" as quickly as a sighted person can do the job, or as
>> quickly as you can do it as a blind person with sighted assistance, then
>> you
>> are golden.  However, if you are functioning independently, but working
>> slower than a sighted person, then you are not independent.  Why should I
>> as
>> an employer be happy about writing you a paycheck when you took longer to
>> do
>> the job, and cost me more money than would have been true if you were a
>> sighted employee?  How is your independence supposed to make me feel
>> better
>> about the higher cost of hiring you?
>>
>> The post which initiated this discussion concerned using M.S. Project with
>>
>> a
>> screen reader.  I have some experience with this program, and no one is
>> going to be able to use most of the features of this program with a screen
>> reader.  Among other things it displays pert and ghant charts to convey
>> information about a project, it uses diagrams to convey critical path
>> analysis, etc.  Its purpose is to use relational pictures to quickly
>> convey
>> project flow and bottlenecks.  How can a screen reader be used to convey
>> this kind of pictorial information?
>>
>> Perhaps at some time in the future, way in the future, we will be able to
>> load up every blind person with all the hardware and software necessary to
>> make us virtually sighted, and therefore "independent."  For this to
>> actually happen, technology for sighted people is going to need to come to
>>
>> a
>> screeching halt, so that we can have the necessary time to adapt what is
>> already there to make it accessible.  Consider this.  If technology
>> continues to evolve for sighted people, and if we assume at least an 18
>> month delay to make the existing products accessible to us, we will always
>> be 18 months behind our sighted colleagues.  Moreover, the lifecycle of
>> today's products is hardly longer than 18 months, so by the time our
>> adaptive software and hardware is available, the next release is sold to
>> the
>> employers and sighted public and we are once again behind, and not
>> independent.   Of course we cannot halt continuing development for sighted
>> people, so our ability to access and use products in the work place
>> independently, is going to continue to lag behind unless manufacturers can
>> be forced to make their products accessible to the blind the day they are
>> released to the sighted public generally.  I think, though possibly
>> incorrectly, that the NFB is opposed to forcing manufacturers to make
>> their
>> products accessible to us, so what is the solution.
>>
>> I also wonder how blind people are going to become rich enough to buy all
>> these independence goodies.  What portion of the NFB membership or blind
>> people in this country are living on either SSI or SSDI?  I think this
>> places us as a group way below the poverty level, and unless something
>> changes in a major way, I don't see many of us owning homes, automated
>> cars
>> which will drive us around, or even the software and hardware we need to
>> make us functional, let alone independent.  An idea or "philosophy" if we
>> want to elevate the independence idea to this level, is only valid or
>> worthwhile, if it can withstand reality testing.  If it cannot, then it is
>> nothing more than a fantasy which is interfering with our progress, not
>> advancing it.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "humberto" <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>>
>>
>>> Hello all.
>>> I can understand your points about readers and being able to get
>>> assistance in college. I understand that even sighted people request
>>> assistance, I don't blame them for that. I know things can be done this
>>> way, but isn't it the goal of the National Federation of the blind and
>>> the blind ourselves to be as independent as the sighted? Can't we do and
>>> fight for our freedom just like the sighted?
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>To: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>, National
>>> Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:05:53 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>>>
>>>>Hi Josh and all,
>>>
>>>>I can think of very few cases in which getting a course waived
>>> because
>>>>of blindness is justifiable. I know this has been mentioned
>>> already,
>>>>but in my experience almost any course can be completed with the
>>> help
>>>>of a good human reader, regardless of the accessibility of
>>> necessary
>>>>software. A reader will be much, much less expensive than
>>> SuperNova or
>>>>other software.
>>>
>>>>I think one of the biggest misconceptions, held by blind and
>>> sighted
>>>>people alike, is that if a blind person can't do a task
>>> independently,
>>>>they can't do the task at all. But decades of blind students who
>>> were
>>>>educated prior to the computer era have proven that true success
>>> is
>>>>possible through appropriate collaborations with readers and
>>> other
>>>>assistants. Many state agencies for the blind have provisions in
>>> their
>>>>statutes requiring them to pay for reader services. If not, it is
>>>>possible to hire readers on a volunteer basis, offering to
>>> provide a
>>>>service such as food, babysitting, etc. as compensation or
>>> working
>>>>with volunteers from an organization that requires them to
>>> complete
>>>>service hours. Many college clubs, such as fraternities and
>>> sororities
>>>>or service organizations, or even groups at a church or other
>>>>religious organizations require their members to perform
>>> volunteer
>>>>service.
>>>
>>>>For example, I have been successful thus far in my doctoral
>>> program in
>>>>psychology despite not being able to independently enter data or
>>> make
>>>>poster presentations. I work with research assistants who enter
>>> the
>>>>data and help me with formatting my posters and graphical
>>>>presentations of my research. I also cannot independently grade
>>>>handwritten tests for my teaching assistant jobs, but I can do so
>>> by
>>>>working with a reader who reads the tests to me. It would be a
>>> real
>>>>shame if I, or someone in my graduate program, thought I couldn't
>>>>participate in the program because I can't do these tasks all by
>>>>myself. Similarly, some people think a blind person cannot teach
>>>>elementary school because they cannot watch all the kids at once
>>> and
>>>>ascertain whether they are fooling around silently during class.
>>> Yet
>>>>many blind elementary school teachers work with assistants who
>>> help
>>>>with visual classroom monitoring so they are free to instruct the
>>>>class. In both of these cases, the blind person is still
>>> performing
>>>>the important work. I still independently develop the content for
>>> my
>>>>data presentations and I decide what grades students will get on
>>> their
>>>>tests after the reader has told me what the students wrote. The
>>> blind
>>>>teacher is still the one in charge of the classroom and the one
>>> who
>>>>decides how mischievous students will be disciplined after they
>>> are
>>>>identified by the teacher's aide. It is also important to
>>> remember
>>>>that in many of these professions, sighted people also work with
>>>>similar kinds of assistants. Some sighted teachers have
>>>>paraprofessionals (teacher's aides). Although my sighted
>>> classmates
>>>>don't use their RA's to help them with presentations, they do
>>> often
>>>>work with RA's who provide data entry assistance.
>>>
>>>>My point is that I would caution against saying something is
>>>>impossible just because it can't be done without assistance. Of
>>>>course, the ideal is to have software designed to be accessible
>>> out of
>>>>the box so we can do everything independently. But until that day
>>>>comes, I would not give up on a class or an activity until all
>>>>options, including use of human readers, have been exhausted.
>>>
>>>>Good luck!
>>>>Arielle
>>>
>>>>On 1/9/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Josh,
>>>>> Sorry to be blunt but your ideas seem like dreams.  Do you think
>>> your voc
>>>>> rehab agency will buy you a different screen reader for one
>>> class?  I highly
>>>>> doubt it because budgets are tight and its not cost effective to
>>> buy
>>>>> something you'll use three months.  Any adaptive technology
>>> purchase has to
>>>>> be justifiable and related to your employment goal.
>>>>> Next for the companies to script their screen readers and make
>>> them
>>>>> accessible its a large undertaking and will not happen in the
>>> time you need
>>>>> it to.  Even if you take a semester off as you said you would,
>>> do you think
>>>>> the companies will be ready?  Did you ask them the time frame of
>>> the
>>>>> scripting process?
>>>>> If MS project is graphical it may not be something that is
>>> rendered
>>>>> accessible; some software is just not.
>>>>> Also there needs to be a large demand for this.  Are many blind
>>> people
>>>>> needing Ms project and made the request? I have no idea.
>>>
>>>>> Rather than getting a waver, I suggest some things.  Hire a
>>> reader to help
>>>>> you; get a course substitution for the class.  Could you use
>>> another program
>>>>> to accomplish the same goals of the class?
>>>
>>>>> Anyway, good luck figuring this out but I don't think asking
>>> companies to
>>>>> script their software, and expecting it to be ready soon is a
>>> realistic
>>>>> idea.
>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 2:13 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] waver
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>
>>>>>> I used to think I would need a waver for this project management
>>> class.
>>>>>> You see if I can get gwmicro or serotek or both to make their
>>> readers
>>>>>> accessible, great. if not, I will get voc rehab to get me
>>> supernova.
>>>>>> supernova is the only screen reader which makes ms-project2007
>>> and 2010
>>>>>> accessible.
>>>
>>>>>> Josh
>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworma
>>> hb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres
>>> ident%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Arielle Silverman
>>>>President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>Phone:  602-502-2255
>>>>Email:
>>>>nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>Website:
>>>>www.nabslink.org
>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>>> 5369%40netzero.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:47:37 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:47:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen readers
Message-ID: <4D2A7349.3080206@gmail.com>

Hi

Serotek's screen reader is called system access. supernova is less 
expensive than jaws.

Josh


From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:48:35 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:48:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus>
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS9DD74AFA70A00A32915628B0E0@phx.gbl>

?
oh I want to clarify that I do agree with making an atempt in most 
ccercumstances.  I'm mainly talking about courses that don't reallyahve 
anything to do with the major such as visual performing arts for someone 
that doesn't want to go into the arts I had no interest in it and did get a 
waver for it.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joe Orozco
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:41 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Dennis,

The NFB is not opposed to manufacturers making things accessible to us.  I'm
not challenging you, but where did you get that perception?  I think it'd be
worth us exploring the literature for possible confusion or slapping the
person upside the head for misleading you.  I think the fact that the NFB
has gone after airlines, universities and test agencies is indicative of a
group that is trying to make more products accessible to us all.

Robert,

No one is rejecting the notion that we're all different in our capacities as
blind individuals.  Yet, you have to recognize that it's far easier for us
to, like Nicole pointed out, assume that something is impossible than it is
for us to give it an extra push to understand the concepts of how something
works and potentially learn it.  We can't have it both ways in expecting
employers to see us as equal to our sighted fellow applicants but advance
the caveat that there are some things that we're not prepared to make an
effort at learning.  Does this mean we idiotically go out and do things just
to prove a point?  Perhaps there are some people who do this, but most of us
would rather emphasize our efficiency.

At one of my jobs I had a supervisor who once handed me a stack of checks
and asked me to enter their numbers into our system.  This would have
involved me sitting there and scanning each individual check with potential
glitches in OCR.  Could I have done it?  Yes, but it would have taken her
less than half the time to get the job done.  I traded her tasks, and we
achieved the overall assignment with less fuss.

But, people have to be willing to make an effort.  I think those of us with
experience with MS Project have all agreed it is largely inaccessible.  Yet,
who are we to know that maybe Josh won't be the guy who will have a bright
idea and find a solution to it?  Maybe he will find someone who will make
scripts available to make the non-graphical representations at least more
accessible to us.

Anyway, just my twenty dollar's worth.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 10 02:52:15 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:52:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus>
Message-ID: <57D5830B837844529C69A7C189254EBA@Ashley>

Hi,

Good points Joe. Now what is MS project used for?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Dennis,
>
> The NFB is not opposed to manufacturers making things accessible to us. 
> I'm
> not challenging you, but where did you get that perception?  I think it'd 
> be
> worth us exploring the literature for possible confusion or slapping the
> person upside the head for misleading you.  I think the fact that the NFB
> has gone after airlines, universities and test agencies is indicative of a
> group that is trying to make more products accessible to us all.
>
> Robert,
>
> No one is rejecting the notion that we're all different in our capacities 
> as
> blind individuals.  Yet, you have to recognize that it's far easier for us
> to, like Nicole pointed out, assume that something is impossible than it 
> is
> for us to give it an extra push to understand the concepts of how 
> something
> works and potentially learn it.  We can't have it both ways in expecting
> employers to see us as equal to our sighted fellow applicants but advance
> the caveat that there are some things that we're not prepared to make an
> effort at learning.  Does this mean we idiotically go out and do things 
> just
> to prove a point?  Perhaps there are some people who do this, but most of 
> us
> would rather emphasize our efficiency.
>
> At one of my jobs I had a supervisor who once handed me a stack of checks
> and asked me to enter their numbers into our system.  This would have
> involved me sitting there and scanning each individual check with 
> potential
> glitches in OCR.  Could I have done it?  Yes, but it would have taken her
> less than half the time to get the job done.  I traded her tasks, and we
> achieved the overall assignment with less fuss.
>
> But, people have to be willing to make an effort.  I think those of us 
> with
> experience with MS Project have all agreed it is largely inaccessible. 
> Yet,
> who are we to know that maybe Josh won't be the guy who will have a bright
> idea and find a solution to it?  Maybe he will find someone who will make
> scripts available to make the non-graphical representations at least more
> accessible to us.
>
> Anyway, just my twenty dollar's worth.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From ginisd at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 10 02:53:23 2011
From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:53:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
In-Reply-To: <5566863EA59648548050CD9AFA2A837B@Ashley>
References: <4D2A30BD.5080500@gmail.com><E0DB44CF23334C589CE11547F4A4731F@Rufus>
	<5566863EA59648548050CD9AFA2A837B@Ashley>
Message-ID: <EF8E164E378041978E64F661E6266996@windows4c0ed96>

Hi Ashley, I have only used Window eyes as my screen reader,  although it
seems I am in a minority a bit most people these days use Jaws.  I am fairly
sure that you can use window eyes on as many computers as are for your own
personal use, I think on the honor system.  Recently I called Gw Micro and
asked about putting my Window eyes on a net book I might buy soon since I
now only have a desktop.  I was told it should be no problem. This is a
definite difference from Jaws, I gather, in that you can only put Jaws on a
limited number of computers.It is also possible, for a volunteer job or part
time or temp job as you say, to put Window eyes on a thumb drive or by
another method and put it on any computer you wish.  I have not done this
but  I understand it is not impossibly convoluted and tech support would
help at GW Micro.  Can you do this with Jaws?  I would suggest you call Gw
Micro at 1-260-489-3671 to confirm all this, especially the key or license
issue.  I think when you call, push the phone option for sales and if
possible, ask to talk with Jeremy Curry, he is very patient, and
knowledgeable.  The regular tech support people at option one are also very
good, but sometimes a bit hassled.   HTh, Ginnie

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:21 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental

Joe,
I assume you can also buy GW micro products?  Do they have keys for their 
screen reader like Freedom scientific does? Keys limit the number of 
computers you can use jaws on which is the point I guess.  When I bought  a 
new computer I had to get the keys reset since I used up my set of them.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
<nabs at acb.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental


> Josh,
>
> Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have 
> previously
> suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what GW Micro has
> been doing for its product, and a few years later the landscape has not
> changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
> writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very well discover
> that the course using MS Project would have come and gone before you know
> it.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>
> Hi
>
> Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from
> both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this will work
> I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we
> need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to
> implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how
> it works.
> You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent
> it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick product rentals.
> you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per month basis.
> So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will
> pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4
> months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for
> window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and I decide I
> don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go
> into your
> product rental account on the company's websites and cancel
> your rental.
> And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets
> deactivated.
> Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month
> plus $5 or
> so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I
> need it on
> two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for
> something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my
> rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl
ink.net
> 


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et



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 02:56:59 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:56:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ms-project
Message-ID: <4D2A757B.9040702@gmail.com>

Hi

Does anybody know any python programmers? NVDA the free open source 
screen reader is written in python and its appModules are also written 
in Python. NVDA has had video hooks for a while now otherwise known as a 
display model. So perhaps NVDA could be scripted to gain access to 
ms-object's document object model and perhaps even read its gant charts? 
Perhaps voc rehab won't buy supernova. But perhaps they have or know 
someone who knows Python scripting who can script NVDA to work with 
ms-project and it may even be much cheaper than bying supernova. I think 
many of NVDA's appModule functions are contained in AppModule.handler or 
something like that. Weird, I understand the concepts behind scripting 
but putting the pieces together, well I have trouble with that.

Josh


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 10 03:01:45 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:01:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl><097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus>
	<BAY130-DS9DD74AFA70A00A32915628B0E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2B33B9E772254CDC9DB63F51D9F02A3C@Ashley>

Rob,
Good point.  NFB members probably won't agree.  They think waving a class 
says we're unequal and can't compete.  I think we have to try to get 
accomodations.  To Josh's cridit he said he could use another screen reader 
to facilitate his access but he can't buy the screen reader which led him to 
propose renting the screen reader; good idea.

But yeah I see what you're saying; if the  class is real visual and has 
nothing to do with your interests or major, should you get a waver?
I don't know. Part of me says no since you are not meeting college 
requirements; the other part says yes.
For instance if you constantly use a reader to input data in the computer 
and have to have everything read, described, and written in for you, is it 
really worth it? Are you really feeling the benefit and equal anyway to your 
peers?
I'd say if you do get a waver then have a course substitution for another 
class.

BTW to fulfill
the performing arts requirement, I took acting, a basic acting class that 
met once a week.  Turned out to be fun.  I didn't like memorizing lines 
though.

Ashley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> ?
> oh I want to clarify that I do agree with making an atempt in most 
> ccercumstances.  I'm mainly talking about courses that don't reallyahve 
> anything to do with the major such as visual performing arts for someone 
> that doesn't want to go into the arts I had no interest in it and did get 
> a waver for it.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Joe Orozco
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:41 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Dennis,
>
> The NFB is not opposed to manufacturers making things accessible to us. 
> I'm
> not challenging you, but where did you get that perception?  I think it'd 
> be
> worth us exploring the literature for possible confusion or slapping the
> person upside the head for misleading you.  I think the fact that the NFB
> has gone after airlines, universities and test agencies is indicative of a
> group that is trying to make more products accessible to us all.
>
> Robert,
>
> No one is rejecting the notion that we're all different in our capacities 
> as
> blind individuals.  Yet, you have to recognize that it's far easier for us
> to, like Nicole pointed out, assume that something is impossible than it 
> is
> for us to give it an extra push to understand the concepts of how 
> something
> works and potentially learn it.  We can't have it both ways in expecting
> employers to see us as equal to our sighted fellow applicants but advance
> the caveat that there are some things that we're not prepared to make an
> effort at learning.  Does this mean we idiotically go out and do things 
> just
> to prove a point?  Perhaps there are some people who do this, but most of 
> us
> would rather emphasize our efficiency.
>
> At one of my jobs I had a supervisor who once handed me a stack of checks
> and asked me to enter their numbers into our system.  This would have
> involved me sitting there and scanning each individual check with 
> potential
> glitches in OCR.  Could I have done it?  Yes, but it would have taken her
> less than half the time to get the job done.  I traded her tasks, and we
> achieved the overall assignment with less fuss.
>
> But, people have to be willing to make an effort.  I think those of us 
> with
> experience with MS Project have all agreed it is largely inaccessible. 
> Yet,
> who are we to know that maybe Josh won't be the guy who will have a bright
> idea and find a solution to it?  Maybe he will find someone who will make
> scripts available to make the non-graphical representations at least more
> accessible to us.
>
> Anyway, just my twenty dollar's worth.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 10 03:03:27 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:03:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen readers
References: <4D2A7349.3080206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E099DA82916540AB8C87A6972D5AD677@Ashley>

Hi Josh,
Is system access the screen reader you can rent?
Where do you get it?
That's good Supernova is less expensive. Where do you get it? Does it sound 
like jaws?
Do both screen readers read everything jaws does?

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] screen readers


> Hi
>
> Serotek's screen reader is called system access. supernova is less 
> expensive than jaws.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 10 03:03:57 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:03:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl><097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus>
	<BAY130-DS9DD74AFA70A00A32915628B0E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <229083A2DEAC4D3D9C218EA601A153B8@Ashley>

Rob,
What is your major?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> ?
> oh I want to clarify that I do agree with making an atempt in most 
> ccercumstances.  I'm mainly talking about courses that don't reallyahve 
> anything to do with the major such as visual performing arts for someone 
> that doesn't want to go into the arts I had no interest in it and did get 
> a waver for it.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Joe Orozco
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:41 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Dennis,
>
> The NFB is not opposed to manufacturers making things accessible to us. 
> I'm
> not challenging you, but where did you get that perception?  I think it'd 
> be
> worth us exploring the literature for possible confusion or slapping the
> person upside the head for misleading you.  I think the fact that the NFB
> has gone after airlines, universities and test agencies is indicative of a
> group that is trying to make more products accessible to us all.
>
> Robert,
>
> No one is rejecting the notion that we're all different in our capacities 
> as
> blind individuals.  Yet, you have to recognize that it's far easier for us
> to, like Nicole pointed out, assume that something is impossible than it 
> is
> for us to give it an extra push to understand the concepts of how 
> something
> works and potentially learn it.  We can't have it both ways in expecting
> employers to see us as equal to our sighted fellow applicants but advance
> the caveat that there are some things that we're not prepared to make an
> effort at learning.  Does this mean we idiotically go out and do things 
> just
> to prove a point?  Perhaps there are some people who do this, but most of 
> us
> would rather emphasize our efficiency.
>
> At one of my jobs I had a supervisor who once handed me a stack of checks
> and asked me to enter their numbers into our system.  This would have
> involved me sitting there and scanning each individual check with 
> potential
> glitches in OCR.  Could I have done it?  Yes, but it would have taken her
> less than half the time to get the job done.  I traded her tasks, and we
> achieved the overall assignment with less fuss.
>
> But, people have to be willing to make an effort.  I think those of us 
> with
> experience with MS Project have all agreed it is largely inaccessible. 
> Yet,
> who are we to know that maybe Josh won't be the guy who will have a bright
> idea and find a solution to it?  Maybe he will find someone who will make
> scripts available to make the non-graphical representations at least more
> accessible to us.
>
> Anyway, just my twenty dollar's worth.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 03:13:18 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 22:13:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
Message-ID: <4D2A794E.3060703@gmail.com>

Hi

Guys why not give NVDA 2010.2 a chance? It has video hooks, you can 
script it, its free, its open source! So to tell you the truth guys I 
have been using NVDA as my primary screen reader for a year or so now. 
And since it got video hooks and an off-screen display model its great! 
Oh and if I don't like a certain hotkey I can change it. It has a 
pronunciation dictionary and many configurable options. And if you know 
python you can script it to your heart's content. My point is if 
supernova can be and has been scripted for ms-project then why not 
NVDA2010.2 and later snapshots? Imagine NVDA coming with tons of 
scripts. Imagine NVDA being the primary screen reader that state 
agencies recommend. If you want Jaws in Spanish that's an extra expense. 
Want NVDA2010.2 and later in spanish?
1. press insert control g for the general dialog.
2 arrow down in the language interface combo box to spanish, tab to ok 
and hit enter. when prompted to restart nvda say yes. now switch ESpeak 
or your sapi4 or sapi5 synthesizer to spanish and you got yourself a 
spanish screen reader with spanish help files and spanish everything.
Maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Maybe I am thinking too big! yes 
thats it I'm thinking too big! oh heck my primary screen reader has 
video hooks and an off-screen model, a review cursor the ability to 
click mouse with the review cursor. and it can be scripted. so, anyone 
out there anyone know python? anyone can script ms-object for nvda? Why 
should I make voc rehab buy supernova? What if NVDA once scripted can 
provide the same access that supernova provides?

Josh


From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 03:47:28 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 22:47:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <2B33B9E772254CDC9DB63F51D9F02A3C@Ashley>
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl><097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus><BAY130-DS9DD74AFA70A00A32915628B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<2B33B9E772254CDC9DB63F51D9F02A3C@Ashley>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS12D944E757235E9447579C8B0E0@phx.gbl>

?One more clarification I'm not knocking performing arts or that particular 
course and maybe for another blind person they could do it and I probably 
could have as well if I really wanted to which iI didn't.  But good point 
Ashley.

-----Original Message----- 
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Rob,
Good point.  NFB members probably won't agree.  They think waving a class
says we're unequal and can't compete.  I think we have to try to get
accomodations.  To Josh's cridit he said he could use another screen reader
to facilitate his access but he can't buy the screen reader which led him to
propose renting the screen reader; good idea.

But yeah I see what you're saying; if the  class is real visual and has
nothing to do with your interests or major, should you get a waver?
I don't know. Part of me says no since you are not meeting college
requirements; the other part says yes.
For instance if you constantly use a reader to input data in the computer
and have to have everything read, described, and written in for you, is it
really worth it? Are you really feeling the benefit and equal anyway to your
peers?
I'd say if you do get a waver then have a course substitution for another
class.

BTW to fulfill
the performing arts requirement, I took acting, a basic acting class that
met once a week.  Turned out to be fun.  I didn't like memorizing lines
though.

Ashley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Blachowicz" <rob_blach at hotmail.com>
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> ?
> oh I want to clarify that I do agree with making an atempt in most 
> ccercumstances.  I'm mainly talking about courses that don't reallyahve 
> anything to do with the major such as visual performing arts for someone 
> that doesn't want to go into the arts I had no interest in it and did get 
> a waver for it.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Joe Orozco
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:41 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
> Dennis,
>
> The NFB is not opposed to manufacturers making things accessible to us. 
> I'm
> not challenging you, but where did you get that perception?  I think it'd 
> be
> worth us exploring the literature for possible confusion or slapping the
> person upside the head for misleading you.  I think the fact that the NFB
> has gone after airlines, universities and test agencies is indicative of a
> group that is trying to make more products accessible to us all.
>
> Robert,
>
> No one is rejecting the notion that we're all different in our capacities 
> as
> blind individuals.  Yet, you have to recognize that it's far easier for us
> to, like Nicole pointed out, assume that something is impossible than it 
> is
> for us to give it an extra push to understand the concepts of how 
> something
> works and potentially learn it.  We can't have it both ways in expecting
> employers to see us as equal to our sighted fellow applicants but advance
> the caveat that there are some things that we're not prepared to make an
> effort at learning.  Does this mean we idiotically go out and do things 
> just
> to prove a point?  Perhaps there are some people who do this, but most of 
> us
> would rather emphasize our efficiency.
>
> At one of my jobs I had a supervisor who once handed me a stack of checks
> and asked me to enter their numbers into our system.  This would have
> involved me sitting there and scanning each individual check with 
> potential
> glitches in OCR.  Could I have done it?  Yes, but it would have taken her
> less than half the time to get the job done.  I traded her tasks, and we
> achieved the overall assignment with less fuss.
>
> But, people have to be willing to make an effort.  I think those of us 
> with
> experience with MS Project have all agreed it is largely inaccessible. 
> Yet,
> who are we to know that maybe Josh won't be the guy who will have a bright
> idea and find a solution to it?  Maybe he will find someone who will make
> scripts available to make the non-graphical representations at least more
> accessible to us.
>
> Anyway, just my twenty dollar's worth.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 10 04:33:31 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:33:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <4D2A794E.3060703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12CFB5B7D04F4F51B95AA9E8439F5793@Ashley>

Josh,
What are video hooks?
Remember for a screen reader to be scripted for a product, someone has to 
pay for it.  You could look into it though.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 10:13 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] waver


> Hi
>
> Guys why not give NVDA 2010.2 a chance? It has video hooks, you can script 
> it, its free, its open source! So to tell you the truth guys I have been 
> using NVDA as my primary screen reader for a year or so now. And since it 
> got video hooks and an off-screen display model its great! Oh and if I 
> don't like a certain hotkey I can change it. It has a pronunciation 
> dictionary and many configurable options. And if you know python you can 
> script it to your heart's content. My point is if supernova can be and has 
> been scripted for ms-project then why not NVDA2010.2 and later snapshots? 
> Imagine NVDA coming with tons of scripts. Imagine NVDA being the primary 
> screen reader that state agencies recommend. If you want Jaws in Spanish 
> that's an extra expense. Want NVDA2010.2 and later in spanish?
> 1. press insert control g for the general dialog.
> 2 arrow down in the language interface combo box to spanish, tab to ok and 
> hit enter. when prompted to restart nvda say yes. now switch ESpeak or 
> your sapi4 or sapi5 synthesizer to spanish and you got yourself a spanish 
> screen reader with spanish help files and spanish everything.
> Maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Maybe I am thinking too big! yes 
> thats it I'm thinking too big! oh heck my primary screen reader has video 
> hooks and an off-screen model, a review cursor the ability to click mouse 
> with the review cursor. and it can be scripted. so, anyone out there 
> anyone know python? anyone can script ms-object for nvda? Why should I 
> make voc rehab buy supernova? What if NVDA once scripted can provide the 
> same access that supernova provides?
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From gera1027 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 06:13:20 2011
From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:13:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] How to activate the mouse within the Flat cursor?
Message-ID: <00eb01cbb08d$7d9168f0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1>

Hi guys: with all the talk of NVDA I'm curious to know suppose I'm using the 
flat cursor to review a screen and I want to click the mouse button to open 
up a menu or press a button   How's it done exactly? In my laptop I don't 
know where the mouse clock key is so any ideas?
Gerardo 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 14:31:19 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:31:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <2B33B9E772254CDC9DB63F51D9F02A3C@Ashley>
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl><097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus><BAY130-DS9DD74AFA70A00A32915628B0E0@phx.gbl>
	<2B33B9E772254CDC9DB63F51D9F02A3C@Ashley>
Message-ID: <BB30F798D5F447D4B350549BE0067513@Rufus>

I think a good project for the NABS board would be a policy guide on the
NFB's positions on specific issues.  There's been so much talk the past
couple days about what the NFB believes and how the NFB membership views
things, and I'm honestly surprised by some of the authors of these
observations, considering how long they've been around.

To Ashley,

There are some courses that require more vision than others.  When I took
statistics, SPSS was not very accessible.  I befriended a fellow student in
the class, and we completed the calculations on the program while my
classmate explained the concepts.  After all, the point of most software is
to facilitate what would otherwise take a longer time doing by hand.  The
point of MS Project is to enhance workflow, and the concepts underscored by
the software are going to basically hold true whether you use another
product or map it out on a chalkboard.  For a person that wants to make
technology their bread and butter, it's good to at least have a working
knowledge of the product.  It is not unreasonable for the professor to be
asked to adjust the exams so that the student is tested on what he or she
was capable of learning, but if the course is never taken: A. the student
will never know what could have been done; and B. the school administration
and faculty will consider it a pass to discourage future enrollment to more
proactive students.

To all,

No one is suggesting that other courses should not be taken if there are
options.  That being said, the student should not shy away from a
potentially good experience just because they think it is impossible.  If
the course is a requirement and there are no alternatives as was the case
with my stats course, buckle down and find creative ways to make it happen.
There are numerous lists of people with varying abilities who might be of
assistance.  And, there are classmates who really won't bite if you ask to
partner up to get through a project.

This is what it takes to be competitive.  Equality in the job market is not
something we're entitled to just because we're blind.  No one is required to
hire us just because we're blind.  It is our responsibility, and our
responsibility alone, to prove that despite being blind, employers can see
us as equal, and college is the premier place to learn this.  Shaking a fist
at the NFB and crying fowl because it demands the best of individuals is not
going to improve your competitive edge.  It's only working to distract you.
Part of what makes employment and technology innovations difficult is that
blind people are honestly our own worst enemies.

Regards,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Mon Jan 10 15:01:44 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:01:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
In-Reply-To: <9E916A5BCA6B43CB9EC932182809F381@Ashley>
Message-ID: <auto-000026372187@mailback1.g2host.com>

GW Micro also has a leas plan for Window-Eyes.  How a screen reader sounds depends upon the synthesizer being used, not the screen reader.  JFW 
uses eloquence but can use other synthesizers.  Window-Eyes also includes a version of Eloquence.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson


On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 19:01:25 -0500, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:

>Joe,
>I saw their website; its an installment plan where you pay to own it.
>So Serotek is the only one with month to month payment.
>Does it sound like jaws?
>Where do I get that screen reader? Is it as sophisticated as jaws and make 
>the internet and microsoft products accessible?

>Ashley

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:15 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental


>>I don't know that GW Micro would necessarily call what they do renting 
>>their
>> product.  Ultimately the idea is that you will pay up to ownership.
>> Serotek, as best as I know, is the only one with a month to month payment
>> arrangement.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ashley Bramlett [mailto:bookwormahb at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 6:11 PM
>> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>>
>> Joe,
>> I, too, have heard this idea before.  I wasn't aware that GW
>> Micro did it
>> though.
>> Do you use it? What products do they sell and how much is
>> renting a screen
>> reader by the month?
>> This may be a great idea for me if I have a internship or
>> temporary job; I'd
>> rather rent the product
>> rather than buy it if I only need it for a short time.  I know
>> employers are
>> supposed to provide the accomodation but realistically they
>> will not if the
>> job is short term.
>>
>> Ashley
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>> <nabs at acb.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>>
>>
>>> Josh,
>>>
>>> Your idea is a fair one.  Yet, it is not a new one.  Others have
>>> previously
>>> suggested that JAWS change to a leasing model similar to what
>> GW Micro has
>>> been doing for its product, and a few years later the
>> landscape has not
>>> changed.  I dare say that if you spent half the energy you exercise in
>>> writing these posts on completing your studies, you may very
>> well discover
>>> that the course using MS Project would have come and gone
>> before you know
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>> their sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:04 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Well then guys the only solution is this! We need to go at this from
>>> both the nfb and the ACB ok? because that's the only way this
>> will work
>>> I think. Ok so I need supernova to do the ms-project class. Ok so we
>>> need to email dolphin and freedom scientific on mass and ask them to
>>> implement a build a bundle program like serotek has. Here's how
>>> it works.
>>> You want supernova and jaws but you don't want to buy it. So lets rent
>>> it. You go to the freedom and or dolphin websites pick
>> product rentals.
>>> you pick the products you want to rent on a monthly or per
>> month basis.
>>> So I want supernova reader and jaws screen reader software. So I will
>>> pay $10 per month to rent supernova and another $10 for jaws. Now 4
>>> months later I don't want to rent them anymore, oh same goes for
>>> window-eyes. $10 per month. So anyway some months go bye and
>> I decide I
>>> don't want this screen reader or that one. no problem! just go
>>> into your
>>> product rental account on the company's websites and cancel
>>> your rental.
>>> And at the end of the billing cycle that screen reader gets
>>> deactivated.
>>> Want some more licenses? One license of jaws is $10 per month
>>> plus $5 or
>>> so for another. So I could pay $10 for one jaws license and I
>>> need it on
>>> two other machines so I'll pay $20. Oh, I need to use openbook for
>>> something. No problem. I'll rent it for a month or two then cancel my
>>> rental. serotek does it. lets wake up the other companies folks!
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm
>> ahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From gera1027 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 16:06:54 2011
From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:06:54 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <taws1f00B2PutTY05awv11@netzero.net><002b01cbb069$c977aff0$6601a8c0@server><BAY130-DS965D9A8EE882B67CE30AC8B0E0@phx.gbl><097CA1C9B8A6437F99BBEB665C775242@Rufus><BAY130-DS9DD74AFA70A00A32915628B0E0@phx.gbl><2B33B9E772254CDC9DB63F51D9F02A3C@Ashley>
	<BB30F798D5F447D4B350549BE0067513@Rufus>
Message-ID: <008401cbb0e0$69129720$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1>

Hi Joe and listers: Such an interesting topic really!and yes all of you guys 
are right! because thanks to what I've learned of figuring out how to do 
things in alternative wayhs has really helped me out in taking courses to 
keep on learning. For instance in a recent course I took an area was devoted 
to having the patient draw a picture; the therapist sees the picture and has 
to, according to what he or she sees, guide the patient. However I figured 
out myself while I heard how the others wer seeing each others' pictures as 
if we were patients, that I'd go around this by asking the patient to 
describe how he or she sees the picture in his or her mind; luckily I wasn't 
on such bad track because after the otherswer finished wen I brought up how 
I'd do this everyone agreed! So don't let a course not being doable 
frighten you away! Imagine how borring life would be if everything was 
easy!GE
rardo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


I think a good project for the NABS board would be a policy guide on the
NFB's positions on specific issues.  There's been so much talk the past
couple days about what the NFB believes and how the NFB membership views
things, and I'm honestly surprised by some of the authors of these
observations, considering how long they've been around.

To Ashley,

There are some courses that require more vision than others.  When I took
statistics, SPSS was not very accessible.  I befriended a fellow student in
the class, and we completed the calculations on the program while my
classmate explained the concepts.  After all, the point of most software is
to facilitate what would otherwise take a longer time doing by hand.  The
point of MS Project is to enhance workflow, and the concepts underscored by
the software are going to basically hold true whether you use another
product or map it out on a chalkboard.  For a person that wants to make
technology their bread and butter, it's good to at least have a working
knowledge of the product.  It is not unreasonable for the professor to be
asked to adjust the exams so that the student is tested on what he or she
was capable of learning, but if the course is never taken: A. the student
will never know what could have been done; and B. the school administration
and faculty will consider it a pass to discourage future enrollment to more
proactive students.

To all,

No one is suggesting that other courses should not be taken if there are
options.  That being said, the student should not shy away from a
potentially good experience just because they think it is impossible.  If
the course is a requirement and there are no alternatives as was the case
with my stats course, buckle down and find creative ways to make it happen.
There are numerous lists of people with varying abilities who might be of
assistance.  And, there are classmates who really won't bite if you ask to
partner up to get through a project.

This is what it takes to be competitive.  Equality in the job market is not
something we're entitled to just because we're blind.  No one is required to
hire us just because we're blind.  It is our responsibility, and our
responsibility alone, to prove that despite being blind, employers can see
us as equal, and college is the premier place to learn this.  Shaking a fist
at the NFB and crying fowl because it demands the best of individuals is not
going to improve your competitive edge.  It's only working to distract you.
Part of what makes employment and technology innovations difficult is that
blind people are honestly our own worst enemies.

Regards,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com 



From gera1027 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 16:11:29 2011
From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:11:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for NFB filosophy in spanish?
Message-ID: <008801cbb0e1$0c57c540$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1>

Hi guys: I'm creating a website
http://imagina.byethost9.com
where I'm talking about how we live life as visually impaired people; not 
only technologically but also psychologically speaking. I'm of the idea that 
(like in the NFB training centers) not only the technology side of being 
able to funcion with blindness is important but also the psychological side. 
thus I've been for about ten or fifteen years reading up on NFB filosophy 
which is kind of how I see things, so is there anywhere where I can get the 
basics of NFB filosophy in spanish to put it on my site? In this way lots of 
spanish speaking friends,both blind and sighted who visit the site, will 
benefit from learning a new way of seeing blindness so any ideas?
Gerardo 



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 17:20:10 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 12:20:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader rental
Message-ID: <4D2B3FCA.9050805@gmail.com>

Hi

The company that lets you rent their screen reader is called serotek and 
their website is www.serotek.com . Their screen reader is very good. 
They have several different payment options.
1. rent to own $39 cancel anytime.
2. $25 48 month rent to own. you are locked into a contract, if you stop 
paying then you must pay the balance owed.
3. $399 full buy out buy it all at once. there are no software 
maintenance agreements smas with any of serotek's products.
4. $499 full buy out. gives you one extra license to put the products on 
a u3 flash drive.
5. build a bundle. $10 plus a one time setup fee of $25. This is cancel 
anytime. when you choose build a bundle you are renting the product or 
combination of products you want to use. You will never own them by 
using build a bundle you will or are just renting them. don't want them 
anymore? just go to your account, cancel your build a bundle service and 
when; the next billing cycle begins your services that you canceled go 
away. want to build a bundle or rent again in 3 months or so? just go 
into your acount, reactivate your service and you're up and going again.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 18:16:39 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:16:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] don't want a waver
Message-ID: <4D2B4D07.7080603@gmail.com>

Hi

Well since I use nvda as my primary screen reader and since nvda is 
scriptable then I will fight and try and corral or force or get my voc 
rehab agency to script nvda so it will work with ms-project, ms-access 
and fully with ms-office and ms-power point. I think it would be in the 
longrun cheaper for them to get someone to script nvda rather than 
making voc rehab buy me a whole new screen reader. nvda is my primary 
screen reader and it is certainly scriptable. so then they should hire 
someone to script it and make nvda do what I need it to do so I can 
complete college.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 18:20:37 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:20:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] screen reader questions
Message-ID: <4D2B4DF5.4010009@gmail.com>

ashley you wrote a lot of questions. I will paste your message below and 
the answers to your questions will below the questions themselves.

Hi Josh,
Is system access the screen reader you can rent?
Yes system access is the screen reader you can rent.

Where do you get it?

You get it at www.serotek.com you begin using it by going to 
www.satogo.com and you begin using serotek's scanning and reading 
program by going to www.docuscanplus.com .

That's good Supernova is less expensive. Where do you get it?
You get supernova at www.yourdolphin.com
Does it sound
like jaws?
Yes it sounds exactly like jaws. You can also get other voices for it if 
you want.

Do both screen readers read everything jaws does?
For the most part system access will do everything Jaws does. Supernova 
a bit more so. Supernova is scriptable, while system access is not 
scriptable.

Ashley


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 18:23:04 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:23:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] video hooks
Message-ID: <4D2B4E88.5080205@gmail.com>

Hi

Video hooks or GDI graphic display interface hooking is a way for a 
screen reader to get access to a lot more information on the screen 
without having to install special drivers. I'm not sure of the 
technicalities of it but it lets the screen reader give you a lot more 
information along with having a cursor like the jaws cursor and being 
able to be scripted to work with nearly any application you need it to 
work with.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 18:24:31 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:24:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nvda mouse
Message-ID: <4D2B4EDF.5010105@gmail.com>

Hi

Ok first go into the keyboard dialog and switch your keyboard to laptop 
layout, make sure you have the capslock set to be an nvda modifier key. 
now route the mouse to the object navigator with capslock shift f9. left 
click with capslock left arrow and right click with capslock right arrow.

Josh


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Mon Jan 10 20:17:21 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:17:21 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] don't want a waver
In-Reply-To: <4D2B4D07.7080603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000023912060@mailback2.g2host.com>

Josh,

It must seem that we are all just throwing wet blankets on things for you, so let me say first that I hope that you hang in there and that you get the degree 
you want.

First, as you probably know, you simply cannot script everything, especially in NVDA.  It is a good screen reader, but it does not have the access to all data 
that Window-Eyes, JFW or Super Nova have even though it handles some things better.  Also, people that are good at scripting generally charge pretty 
well.  It is not at all certain that you would save money by scripting NVDA instead of purchasing Super Nova.  However, as I have mentioned before, buying 
a different screen reader and learning it to us MS Project for a class may still not be the most sensible approach.  It could be that working with someone who 
can look at the screen and tell you how to do things might be the most effective way to deal with the class.  You can then concentrate on learning the 
concepts of the software rather than trying to figure out which keystroke does the same thing as the mouse click that the professor mentions.  I've done this 
myself as I have said before, and then dealt with the access issues later.  You also will want to be sure to understand exactly what Super Nova does to 
make MS Project accessible.  Super Nova uses some different techniques, so it is possible that they are able to deal with some things better than can other 
screen readers.  Did you check out that programming web site that I gave you on another list to see if there might be other programmers with ideas on MS 
Project?  You can send a message to

program-l-request at freelists.org

with the word "subscribe" without the quotes in the subject.  

Also, please note that GW Micro has a lease plan for their screen reader, Window-Eyes.  This provides one more option in addition to Serotek's System 
Access.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:16:39 -0500, Josh Kennedy wrote:

>Hi

>Well since I use nvda as my primary screen reader and since nvda is 
>scriptable then I will fight and try and corral or force or get my voc 
>rehab agency to script nvda so it will work with ms-project, ms-access 
>and fully with ms-office and ms-power point. I think it would be in the 
>longrun cheaper for them to get someone to script nvda rather than 
>making voc rehab buy me a whole new screen reader. nvda is my primary 
>screen reader and it is certainly scriptable. so then they should hire 
>someone to script it and make nvda do what I need it to do so I can 
>complete college.

>Josh

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 20:50:49 2011
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:50:49 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>

Good afternoon,

I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB to
prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit use,
reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. People,
both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the impression that
we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If you want
to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the programs we
implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we all
work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may or may
not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the group. I,
for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the NFB's
policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a member
does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. Like
anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a Democrat,
would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views? Would
your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel about every
issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. So, why
does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I feel
about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.

This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take a waiver
for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should there be.
Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our membership,
but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."

My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, counterproductive, and
absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a case where
a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
everything. 

Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required for a
BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential for
your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other credits
somewhere else. The argument goes:

Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
extra work not required of other students.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, please don't
make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me so much
longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really needs math
anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional English
credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. Better, no
chance in hell.

Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or disagree
with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating reasonably
well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the line
about how blind students simply won't take anything away from certain
classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, took
calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily visual in
many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers I was
able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any of the
information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine economic
or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what economists are
talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the right
questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the graph. So
often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all they are
are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
underlying concept is what is important.

So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required to take
one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a class,
and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But what if I
had been required to take a class on art history or something of the sort.
What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me? Would
that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of learning
about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would not, which,
incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't fair.
But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the progression
of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, hopefully I
would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will any of
the other students in the class who were forced to take it to graduate. So I
had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If we say
we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The "when it
suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art class or
science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip abroad,
and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you need to
come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major, and
besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems." Wouldn't
it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the optional trip?"

I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.

If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too hard, then
either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you believe
and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where you want
to be in life.

Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the wall. All
the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks because I'm
blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also suck
about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having one leg;
or growing old and dying. That. is. life!

Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you
that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.

Sean



From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 21:06:19 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 13:06:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
Message-ID: <482276.92487.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

That was well said.
--- On Mon, 1/10/11, Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Monday, January 10, 2011, 3:50 PM


Good afternoon,

I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB to
prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit use,
reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. People,
both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the impression that
we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If you want
to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the programs we
implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we all
work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may or may
not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the group. I,
for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the NFB's
policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a member
does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. Like
anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a Democrat,
would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views? Would
your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel about every
issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. So, why
does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I feel
about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.

This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take a waiver
for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should there be.
Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our membership,
but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."

My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, counterproductive, and
absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a case where
a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
everything. 

Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required for a
BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential for
your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other credits
somewhere else. The argument goes:

Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
extra work not required of other students.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, please don't
make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me so much
longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really needs math
anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional English
credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. Better, no
chance in hell.

Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or disagree
with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating reasonably
well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the line
about how blind students simply won't take anything away from certain
classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, took
calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily visual in
many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers I was
able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any of the
information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine economic
or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what economists are
talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the right
questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the graph. So
often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all they are
are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
underlying concept is what is important.

So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required to take
one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a class,
and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But what if I
had been required to take a class on art history or something of the sort.
What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me? Would
that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of learning
about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would not, which,
incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't fair.
But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the progression
of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, hopefully I
would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will any of
the other students in the class who were forced to take it to graduate. So I
had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If we say
we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The "when it
suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art class or
science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip abroad,
and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you need to
come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major, and
besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems." Wouldn't
it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the optional trip?"

I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.

If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too hard, then
either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you believe
and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where you want
to be in life.

Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the wall. All
the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks because I'm
blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also suck
about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having one leg;
or growing old and dying. That. is. life!

Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you
that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.

Sean


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      

From rob_blach at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 10 21:11:59 2011
From: rob_blach at hotmail.com (Rob Blachowicz)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:11:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
Message-ID: <BAY130-DS90FDFAB2FD2C87BDA4D1E8B0E0@phx.gbl>

?
I'd like to say that I mostly agree with you and congradulate you on 
pointing out that we are all federationists with not all the same view 
points and also think you have the most constructive argument against my 
argument.  The funny thing about this was that I had to change schools for 
different reasons and avoided the course anyways so it's a mood point but an 
interesting discussion.
Thanks
Rob
-----Original Message----- 
From: Sean Whalen
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 3:50 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

Good afternoon,

I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB to
prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit use,
reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. People,
both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the impression that
we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If you want
to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the programs we
implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we all
work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may or may
not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the group. I,
for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the NFB's
policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a member
does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. Like
anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a Democrat,
would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views? Would
your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel about every
issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. So, why
does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I feel
about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.

This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take a waiver
for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should there be.
Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our membership,
but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."

My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, counterproductive, and
absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a case where
a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
everything.

Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required for a
BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential for
your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other credits
somewhere else. The argument goes:

Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
extra work not required of other students.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, please don't
make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me so much
longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really needs math
anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional English
credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. Better, no
chance in hell.

Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or disagree
with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating reasonably
well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the line
about how blind students simply won't take anything away from certain
classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, took
calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily visual in
many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers I was
able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any of the
information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine economic
or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what economists are
talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the right
questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the graph. So
often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all they are
are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
underlying concept is what is important.

So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required to take
one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a class,
and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But what if I
had been required to take a class on art history or something of the sort.
What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me? Would
that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of learning
about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would not, which,
incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't fair.
But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the progression
of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, hopefully I
would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will any of
the other students in the class who were forced to take it to graduate. So I
had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If we say
we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The "when it
suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art class or
science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip abroad,
and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you need to
come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major, and
besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems." Wouldn't
it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the optional trip?"

I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.

If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too hard, then
either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you believe
and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where you want
to be in life.

Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the wall. All
the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks because I'm
blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also suck
about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having one leg;
or growing old and dying. That. is. life!

Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you
that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.

Sean


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rob_blach%40hotmail.com 



From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 22:08:10 2011
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:08:10 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
Message-ID: <D31D59F96B2145EFACE0CC4C8AE15AE3@MarcPC>

I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.

SW,
Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there 
somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

MW,
Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have.  How 
about:

Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, solely 
because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above version. 
Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases are 
not the same.

Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, solely 
because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are unfair.  I'm not 
sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind something like 
just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are unfair is like 
saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We certainly do have to 
do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly because we live in an unjust 
world, but this doesn't mean we should have to do these things.

The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to take 
very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has been 
badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only sighted 
students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's unjust, 
and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to require a music 
appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there were a university 
for the blind, would it make sense to require these highly visual courses? 
My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be learned from taking 
courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I agree, but I'm also 
sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation course, and if this 
blind university required an art history course, the courses would be 
designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't be forced 
to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people who 
designed the course/curriculum.

SW,
If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
"when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

MW,
If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all its 
forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do extra 
work simply because they are blind.

SW,
Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
optional trip?"

MW,
Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an argument 
showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have something, but 
without this, I think the analogy fails.

SW,
Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less 
difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to 
build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you 
that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.

MW,
It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for 
things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking Alone and 
Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early goals 
of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn money in 
the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this not a 
kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn a 
certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is one 
example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a change 
has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind people 
and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a kind of 
a waver.

I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal treatment, 
or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This is a 
simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good reasons for 
wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that treating her 
the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then there is 
nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees that 
differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the abilities of 
blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I will hold 
him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for insisting on 
her right to be free from discrimination.

I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of 
products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with 
clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all blind 
people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.

Best,

Marc


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Good afternoon,
>
> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB to
> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit use,
> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. People,
> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the impression 
> that
> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If you 
> want
> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the programs 
> we
> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we all
> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may or may
> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the group. I,
> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the NFB's
> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a member
> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. Like
> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a Democrat,
> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views? Would
> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel about 
> every
> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. So, why
> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I feel
> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.
>
> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take a 
> waiver
> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should there be.
> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our 
> membership,
> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."
>
> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, counterproductive, 
> and
> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a case 
> where
> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
> everything.
>
> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required for a
> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential for
> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other credits
> somewhere else. The argument goes:
>
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, please 
> don't
> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me so much
> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really needs math
> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional 
> English
> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. Better, 
> no
> chance in hell.
>
> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or 
> disagree
> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating reasonably
> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the line
> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from certain
> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, took
> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily visual in
> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers I was
> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any of the
> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine economic
> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what economists 
> are
> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the right
> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the graph. 
> So
> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all they are
> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
> underlying concept is what is important.
>
> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required to 
> take
> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a 
> class,
> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But what if I
> had been required to take a class on art history or something of the sort.
> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me? Would
> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of 
> learning
> about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would not, 
> which,
> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't fair.
> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the progression
> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, hopefully I
> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will any of
> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to graduate. So 
> I
> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If we 
> say
> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The "when it
> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art class 
> or
> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip abroad,
> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you need 
> to
> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major, and
> besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems." 
> Wouldn't
> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the optional 
> trip?"
>
> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.
>
> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too hard, 
> then
> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you believe
> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where you 
> want
> to be in life.
>
> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the wall. All
> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks because I'm
> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also suck
> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having one 
> leg;
> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!
>
> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you
> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>
> Sean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 22:12:51 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:12:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
Message-ID: <433FEFCA5B354D4DAC9F8E121D334636@Rufus>

Sean,

Excellent post.  I believe, however, that any large organization, with as
many facets as the NFB, should have a constructive guide on what positions
it has taken with regard to popular issues and at least a brief description
of why that position was taken.  I was appalled to read some of the comments
where the overarching views of the organization were misconstrued.  Some of
the points that come to mind are: audible signals, accessible currency,
video descriptions, and Braille literacy.  I feel such a guide could be a
good way to succinctly inform prospective members and the public at large,
because while I agree that such points can be found in resolutions and
general literature, we're assuming that people will go hunting for
information to disprove their preconceived notions.  Such a guide would at
least serve as a starting point for putting the NFB philosophy into some
kind of context for the uninformed.  Otherwise, thanks for laying out one
hell of a post.  Not bad for a Democrat!

Regards,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 22:47:49 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:47:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] skiing?
Message-ID: <AANLkTinLQqYaWpzTn2JN3ot5hgfujoSsFeLy44qhURAU@mail.gmail.com>

I have a friend who attends college in a wintery town and is
interested in learning to ski. I have heard of organizations such as
Ski for Light that use partners with blind people to cross country
ski, but she is more interested in the slopes. If anyone has
experience with this, she would love for me to connect you with her.

Thanks.



-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From kobycox at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 22:50:46 2011
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:50:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] skiing?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinLQqYaWpzTn2JN3ot5hgfujoSsFeLy44qhURAU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9DFB90A7242D4363AE8E562A3A82F2CB@OwnerPC>

I'm totally blind and I've skeed down the slopes.
Koby.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Cindy Bennett
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:48 PM
To: National Asociation of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] skiing?

I have a friend who attends college in a wintery town and is
interested in learning to ski. I have heard of organizations such as
Ski for Light that use partners with blind people to cross country
ski, but she is more interested in the slopes. If anyone has
experience with this, she would love for me to connect you with her.

Thanks.



-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383

_______________________________________________
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01:34:00




From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 23:16:01 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:16:01 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] skiing?
In-Reply-To: <9DFB90A7242D4363AE8E562A3A82F2CB@OwnerPC>
References: <AANLkTinLQqYaWpzTn2JN3ot5hgfujoSsFeLy44qhURAU@mail.gmail.com>
	<9DFB90A7242D4363AE8E562A3A82F2CB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinqkXezA0Jv=eW1=jpNiHp8zZtPotc6Q9YmiH55@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Cindy,
   there are many organizations that can be of assistance to your
friend.  Discovery Blind Sports and  ABSF are two regionally based
locations that  work with interested persons to  downhill ski. I am
not expert (nor do I play one on T.V.), but   aside from doing a
search for such locations on the internet or subscribing  to the
sports and recreation list, I would suggest  the United states
association of Blind Athletes.  They are rather  good at connecting
you  with  oppertunities to be  athleticly active.   their site is
www.usaba.org.  Also, for a person to contact, I would contact Mark
Lucas at mlucas at usaba.org.
 Hope this proves helpful,
  Darian

On 1/10/11, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm totally blind and I've skeed down the slopes.
> Koby.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:48 PM
> To: National Asociation of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] skiing?
>
> I have a friend who attends college in a wintery town and is
> interested in learning to ski. I have heard of organizations such as
> Ski for Light that use partners with blind people to cross country
> ski, but she is more interested in the slopes. If anyone has
> experience with this, she would love for me to connect you with her.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.
> com
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3365 - Release Date: 01/07/11
> 01:34:00
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 10 23:19:23 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:19:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org><000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
	<D31D59F96B2145EFACE0CC4C8AE15AE3@MarcPC>
Message-ID: <4573B18689C849BBBC98F882E803635D@Ashley>

Mark,
Excellent post.
I believe wavers should be used as a last resort; try to work it out and if 
you take another class make it be related to what you're missing.

I especially agree with your last comment
"I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of
products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with
clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all blind
people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones."

Absolutely.  I would have received a waver for a physical education class if 
my school had one.  I'd say that and a visual art class such as drawing or 
painting are instances where I think a waver is justified.
Some suggestions put forth here to render a class accessible simply are not 
feasible a lot of the time.  The two are having a reader and using 
classmates to glean neccessary information.

As someone who faced discrimination, went the extra mile to the professor to 
ask questions, and kept hitting brick walls, I see where Mark is coming from 
and
do understand why blind students would want a waver.

Two cases from what I was in.  You'll see why readers and classmates are not 
workable solutions all the time.

Readers, even outside class, are hard to get in my experience.  Even when 
living at campus, it was difficult.  Many readers are not qualified; others 
have accents; others are simply unreliable.  I had some readers quit on me 
because they claimed they needed to focus on their own work only.
The college did not provide a reader in class.  Class met twice a week for a 
3 credit class; so one would have to have VR pay for that reader or you'd 
pay yourself; that is a lot of commitment on the reader's part to attend 
class with you.
Many of you suggest using classmates.  This never worked for me except for 
some ocasions; I'm sure I'm not the only one who had problems there.
Classmates didn't want to study together; often schedules didn't match; in 
class they were busy taking their own notes and were not willing to help at 
all.

I faced discrimination when a instructor refused to let me take a ballroom 
dance class at George Mason university.
I was at GMU before transfering.  I explained how I could be accomodated 
including more verbal descriptions and having him show me the moves before 
or during class.  He refused.  The few classes I attended were a mess 
because I couldn't see the moves he was doing.  He was quiet while 
demonstrating rather than being descriptive.  I dropped the class.
It was not required; but if PE was required you better bet I'd get a waver!

Next I was in intercultural communication. This was at Marymount university; 
The professor showed us videos; not many maybe four or five.
Her solution was to get a notetaker for me in class and DSS paid her; but 
Soraya was a bad notetaker; not thourough.
I asked students to go over it with me after class; like summarize it and 
any visual settings I missed; for instance they had a scene from Vietnam and 
I wondered what it looked like.
But no one called me back to discuss it.  Then I asked to borrow the video 
and watch it with a reader.  I'll add a reader I hired; not one provided by 
the school!

Again the professor refused to do this; she would not lend her video out.
The school did not provide a reader in class; one video had subtitles 
because a little was in Vietnamese; finally some student helped me out with 
that.

When I took a class named psychology of the media or something like it, 
again due to the videos I did not have full access to the curriclum; 
classmates were a little more helpful or tried to help here; but they didn't 
know how to describe a video.  The professor was a little more helpful here 
as well; she answered my questions in her office hours.
No readers were provided to describe the films to me.

Mark is right on that more needs to be done to ensure equal access.  Why 
doesn't each
university/college have a section 508 coordinator?  That is someone to 
ensure all matterial the school uses meets accessibility guidelines.
Colleges readily employ software and websites that are not 508 compliant.
Yes products, services and institutions need to be more adaptable.  They 
need to follow laws like the ADA and 504 of the rehab act.
Then we wouldn't have to face discriminatory designs right and left.


Ashley----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


>I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.
>
> SW,
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
> extra work not required of other students.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there 
> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
> MW,
> Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have.  How 
> about:
>
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
> extra work not required of other students.
> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, 
> solely because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
> Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above version. 
> Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases are 
> not the same.
>
> Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
> extra work not required of other students.
> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, 
> solely because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
> Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are unfair.  I'm 
> not sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind 
> something like just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are 
> unfair is like saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We 
> certainly do have to do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly 
> because we live in an unjust world, but this doesn't mean we should have 
> to do these things.
>
> The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to 
> take very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has 
> been badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only 
> sighted students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, 
> it's unjust, and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to 
> require a music appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there 
> were a university for the blind, would it make sense to require these 
> highly visual courses? My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be 
> learned from taking courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I 
> agree, but I'm also sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation 
> course, and if this blind university required an art history course, the 
> courses would be designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students 
> wouldn't be forced to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of 
> the people who designed the course/curriculum.
>
> SW,
> If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
> "when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
> MW,
> If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all its 
> forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do extra 
> work simply because they are blind.
>
> SW,
> Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
> optional trip?"
>
> MW,
> Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an argument 
> showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have something, 
> but without this, I think the analogy fails.
>
> SW,
> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less 
> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to 
> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you 
> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>
> MW,
> It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for 
> things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking Alone 
> and Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early 
> goals of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn 
> money in the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is 
> this not a kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when 
> they earn a certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? 
> This is one example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any 
> time a change has been requested that is designed to make things easier 
> for blind people and will lead to differential treatment, this can be 
> construed as a kind of a waver.
>
> I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal treatment, 
> or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This is a 
> simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good reasons for 
> wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that treating 
> her the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then there 
> is nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees that 
> differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the abilities 
> of blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I will 
> hold him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for 
> insisting on her right to be free from discrimination.
>
> I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of 
> products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with 
> clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all 
> blind people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB to
>> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit use,
>> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
>> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. People,
>> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the impression 
>> that
>> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If you 
>> want
>> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the programs 
>> we
>> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we all
>> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may or 
>> may
>> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the group. 
>> I,
>> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the NFB's
>> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a member
>> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. Like
>> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a Democrat,
>> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views? Would
>> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel about 
>> every
>> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. So, why
>> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I feel
>> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.
>>
>> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take a 
>> waiver
>> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should there 
>> be.
>> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our 
>> membership,
>> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."
>>
>> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, counterproductive, 
>> and
>> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a case 
>> where
>> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
>> everything.
>>
>> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required for 
>> a
>> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential for
>> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other 
>> credits
>> somewhere else. The argument goes:
>>
>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
>> extra work not required of other students.
>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>>
>> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
>> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>>
>> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>>
>> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, please 
>> don't
>> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me so 
>> much
>> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really needs 
>> math
>> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional 
>> English
>> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. Better, 
>> no
>> chance in hell.
>>
>> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or 
>> disagree
>> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating reasonably
>> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the line
>> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from certain
>> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, took
>> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily visual in
>> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers I 
>> was
>> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any of 
>> the
>> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine 
>> economic
>> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what economists 
>> are
>> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the right
>> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the graph. 
>> So
>> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all they 
>> are
>> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
>> underlying concept is what is important.
>>
>> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required to 
>> take
>> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a 
>> class,
>> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But what if 
>> I
>> had been required to take a class on art history or something of the 
>> sort.
>> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me? 
>> Would
>> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of 
>> learning
>> about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
>> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would not, 
>> which,
>> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't fair.
>> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the 
>> progression
>> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, hopefully I
>> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will any 
>> of
>> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to graduate. 
>> So I
>> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If we 
>> say
>> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The "when it
>> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>>
>> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art class 
>> or
>> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip abroad,
>> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you need 
>> to
>> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major, and
>> besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems." 
>> Wouldn't
>> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the optional 
>> trip?"
>>
>> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.
>>
>> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too hard, 
>> then
>> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you believe
>> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where you 
>> want
>> to be in life.
>>
>> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the wall. 
>> All
>> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks because 
>> I'm
>> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also suck
>> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having one 
>> leg;
>> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!
>>
>> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
>> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
>> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure 
>> you
>> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> 



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 23:35:56 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:35:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <433FEFCA5B354D4DAC9F8E121D334636@Rufus>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
	<433FEFCA5B354D4DAC9F8E121D334636@Rufus>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=_Q0MWjAXh1ssiNP0+=gwJ4fm--up4LisQbzNN@mail.gmail.com>

I disagree with the position that math and science courses are highly
visual. They are only visual to the extent that sighted teachers tend
to present the material in visual ways, and sighted students tend to
prefer to learn the information visually and express it visually. The
knowledge gained in math and science courses is not inherently visual;
it can be mentally represented in several different modalities:
sentences, tactile imagery, sounds, experiences, mathematical
equations or likely a combination of the above. I would even venture
to argue that art history is not a visual course. The art itself is
usually perceived visually, but what you learn in an art history
course is the history behind the origins of the art, different
classifications of art, etc. This is all semantic knowledge, not
visual or aesthetic knowledge. I think it is critically important to
distinguish between visual knowledge (i.e. an understanding of what
different shades of blue look like) and knowledge that can be
transmitted in multiple ways, including through visual images (i.e.
statistics, which can be represented either through graphs, equations,
or computer code). The latter group of courses is readily amenable to
creative solutions, as all the blind scientists, mathematicians,
engineers and economists have illustrated. So I find it hard to claim
that such courses discriminate against the blind.

Arielle

On 1/10/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sean,
>
> Excellent post.  I believe, however, that any large organization, with as
> many facets as the NFB, should have a constructive guide on what positions
> it has taken with regard to popular issues and at least a brief description
> of why that position was taken.  I was appalled to read some of the comments
> where the overarching views of the organization were misconstrued.  Some of
> the points that come to mind are: audible signals, accessible currency,
> video descriptions, and Braille literacy.  I feel such a guide could be a
> good way to succinctly inform prospective members and the public at large,
> because while I agree that such points can be found in resolutions and
> general literature, we're assuming that people will go hunting for
> information to disprove their preconceived notions.  Such a guide would at
> least serve as a starting point for putting the NFB philosophy into some
> kind of context for the uninformed.  Otherwise, thanks for laying out one
> hell of a post.  Not bad for a Democrat!
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 00:56:35 2011
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:56:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=_Q0MWjAXh1ssiNP0+=gwJ4fm--up4LisQbzNN@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org><000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com><433FEFCA5B354D4DAC9F8E121D334636@Rufus>
	<AANLkTi=_Q0MWjAXh1ssiNP0+=gwJ4fm--up4LisQbzNN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <85CF7301382D4106B2C00EC458F79EEA@MarcPC>

Hello Arielle,

Not sure if your message below was a response to my post, but since I'm the 
one that brought up discrimination, I'm going to offer a response.

I don't think I suggested that math and science classes are highly visual, 
at least not inherently highly visual.  In fact, I said that music 
appreciation at Gallaudet and art history at my imaginary blind university 
would be "designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't 
be forced to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people 
who designed the course/curriculum."

You yourself said such courses are "visual to the extent that sighted 
teachers tend to present the material in visual ways".  This is where the 
discrimination occurs, in the fact that blind students are forced to do 
extra work, when this requirement is not actually necessary.

Would it be acceptable to require a woman to do extra work, simply because 
the teacher tends to present the material in such a way that it requires 
more work for women? I doubt it.

I think you make interesting points, but since my claim was never that such 
courses are necessarily discriminatory, but are in fact discriminatory due 
to the way the material is presented, which you seem to agree can be done in 
a visual manner, I would ask why it would not be discrimination to 
unnecessarily create more work for a blind student when it would be 
discrimination to unnecessarily create more work for a woman.

Students can certainly succeed, even in the face of pervaisive 
discrimination.  They can be creative, and work harder, and come up with 
solutions to solve fundamental design problems, and this can even make them 
better.  But I have trouble understanding why someone would accept 
discrimination on the grounds that it can be overcome.

Best,

Marc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <nabs.president at gmail.com>
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


>I disagree with the position that math and science courses are highly
> visual. They are only visual to the extent that sighted teachers tend
> to present the material in visual ways, and sighted students tend to
> prefer to learn the information visually and express it visually. The
> knowledge gained in math and science courses is not inherently visual;
> it can be mentally represented in several different modalities:
> sentences, tactile imagery, sounds, experiences, mathematical
> equations or likely a combination of the above. I would even venture
> to argue that art history is not a visual course. The art itself is
> usually perceived visually, but what you learn in an art history
> course is the history behind the origins of the art, different
> classifications of art, etc. This is all semantic knowledge, not
> visual or aesthetic knowledge. I think it is critically important to
> distinguish between visual knowledge (i.e. an understanding of what
> different shades of blue look like) and knowledge that can be
> transmitted in multiple ways, including through visual images (i.e.
> statistics, which can be represented either through graphs, equations,
> or computer code). The latter group of courses is readily amenable to
> creative solutions, as all the blind scientists, mathematicians,
> engineers and economists have illustrated. So I find it hard to claim
> that such courses discriminate against the blind.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 1/10/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sean,
>>
>> Excellent post.  I believe, however, that any large organization, with as
>> many facets as the NFB, should have a constructive guide on what 
>> positions
>> it has taken with regard to popular issues and at least a brief 
>> description
>> of why that position was taken.  I was appalled to read some of the 
>> comments
>> where the overarching views of the organization were misconstrued.  Some 
>> of
>> the points that come to mind are: audible signals, accessible currency,
>> video descriptions, and Braille literacy.  I feel such a guide could be a
>> good way to succinctly inform prospective members and the public at 
>> large,
>> because while I agree that such points can be found in resolutions and
>> general literature, we're assuming that people will go hunting for
>> information to disprove their preconceived notions.  Such a guide would 
>> at
>> least serve as a starting point for putting the NFB philosophy into some
>> kind of context for the uninformed.  Otherwise, thanks for laying out one
>> hell of a post.  Not bad for a Democrat!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their 
>> sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com 



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 01:14:23 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:14:23 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <85CF7301382D4106B2C00EC458F79EEA@MarcPC>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
	<433FEFCA5B354D4DAC9F8E121D334636@Rufus>
	<AANLkTi=_Q0MWjAXh1ssiNP0+=gwJ4fm--up4LisQbzNN@mail.gmail.com>
	<85CF7301382D4106B2C00EC458F79EEA@MarcPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinVa0qXYWgd5bMKS96d578KdGEf9Kd-RudjqPvv@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,
I am having difficulty coming up with an example of a course that
would require extra work for a woman than for a man, though I agree
with the sentiment of your analogy.

I think in the ideal case, courses would be designed so the nonvisual
learning route would be just as easy as the visual one. However, I
worry that reaching this ideal is difficult enough that we must also
shoulder some of the burden ourselves. Unfortunately disability groups
are such small minorities that we are unlikely to effect the radical
system changes that would render the playing field completely level.
Of course we can and should try as best we can to effect small
changes, such as making individual programs accessible, but in the
meantime we must also figure out how to work within the system.

Respectfully,
Arielle

On 1/10/11, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Arielle,
>
> Not sure if your message below was a response to my post, but since I'm the
> one that brought up discrimination, I'm going to offer a response.
>
> I don't think I suggested that math and science classes are highly visual,
> at least not inherently highly visual.  In fact, I said that music
> appreciation at Gallaudet and art history at my imaginary blind university
> would be "designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't
> be forced to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people
> who designed the course/curriculum."
>
> You yourself said such courses are "visual to the extent that sighted
> teachers tend to present the material in visual ways".  This is where the
> discrimination occurs, in the fact that blind students are forced to do
> extra work, when this requirement is not actually necessary.
>
> Would it be acceptable to require a woman to do extra work, simply because
> the teacher tends to present the material in such a way that it requires
> more work for women? I doubt it.
>
> I think you make interesting points, but since my claim was never that such
> courses are necessarily discriminatory, but are in fact discriminatory due
> to the way the material is presented, which you seem to agree can be done in
> a visual manner, I would ask why it would not be discrimination to
> unnecessarily create more work for a blind student when it would be
> discrimination to unnecessarily create more work for a woman.
>
> Students can certainly succeed, even in the face of pervaisive
> discrimination.  They can be creative, and work harder, and come up with
> solutions to solve fundamental design problems, and this can even make them
> better.  But I have trouble understanding why someone would accept
> discrimination on the grounds that it can be overcome.
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <nabs.president at gmail.com>
> To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>>I disagree with the position that math and science courses are highly
>> visual. They are only visual to the extent that sighted teachers tend
>> to present the material in visual ways, and sighted students tend to
>> prefer to learn the information visually and express it visually. The
>> knowledge gained in math and science courses is not inherently visual;
>> it can be mentally represented in several different modalities:
>> sentences, tactile imagery, sounds, experiences, mathematical
>> equations or likely a combination of the above. I would even venture
>> to argue that art history is not a visual course. The art itself is
>> usually perceived visually, but what you learn in an art history
>> course is the history behind the origins of the art, different
>> classifications of art, etc. This is all semantic knowledge, not
>> visual or aesthetic knowledge. I think it is critically important to
>> distinguish between visual knowledge (i.e. an understanding of what
>> different shades of blue look like) and knowledge that can be
>> transmitted in multiple ways, including through visual images (i.e.
>> statistics, which can be represented either through graphs, equations,
>> or computer code). The latter group of courses is readily amenable to
>> creative solutions, as all the blind scientists, mathematicians,
>> engineers and economists have illustrated. So I find it hard to claim
>> that such courses discriminate against the blind.
>>
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 1/10/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sean,
>>>
>>> Excellent post.  I believe, however, that any large organization, with as
>>> many facets as the NFB, should have a constructive guide on what
>>> positions
>>> it has taken with regard to popular issues and at least a brief
>>> description
>>> of why that position was taken.  I was appalled to read some of the
>>> comments
>>> where the overarching views of the organization were misconstrued.  Some
>>> of
>>> the points that come to mind are: audible signals, accessible currency,
>>> video descriptions, and Braille literacy.  I feel such a guide could be a
>>> good way to succinctly inform prospective members and the public at
>>> large,
>>> because while I agree that such points can be found in resolutions and
>>> general literature, we're assuming that people will go hunting for
>>> information to disprove their preconceived notions.  Such a guide would
>>> at
>>> least serve as a starting point for putting the NFB philosophy into some
>>> kind of context for the uninformed.  Otherwise, thanks for laying out one
>>> hell of a post.  Not bad for a Democrat!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>> sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Arielle Silverman
>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>> Phone:  602-502-2255
>> Email:
>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>> Website:
>> www.nabslink.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From kramc11 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 01:56:28 2011
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:56:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] skiing?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinLQqYaWpzTn2JN3ot5hgfujoSsFeLy44qhURAU@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinLQqYaWpzTn2JN3ot5hgfujoSsFeLy44qhURAU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F97BEF55A3F4EDEA70FA5C25B36761F@SonyPC>

I am blind, and I go down-hill skiing. The places I mostly go are in Maine 
and New Hampshire. I will gladly talk with anyone looking for additional 
information. My email is kramc11 at gmail.com



From davidschool97 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 01:57:36 2011
From: davidschool97 at gmail.com (David Thomas)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:57:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Syncing computers planners
In-Reply-To: <00eb01cbb08d$7d9168f0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1>
References: <00eb01cbb08d$7d9168f0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1>
Message-ID: <B001E0C6-8D6C-4920-82CD-0A9DE6431BC7@gmail.com>

> Hi This is David Thomas.
I am a student in the second semester of eighth grade and Need some tech help.
I have a mac at school, a mac at home, an I-phone and a braille note empower.
I need to figure out a way to have a planner that has all the appointments, homework assignments, and upcoming projects.
I wan't them all to sync together without interring them on each device.
The school mac only will have internet at home unless we can figure out how to get it on the schools network that runs on PC's.
The I-phone, home mac, and the Braille note could be connected at home on the same network.
At the school I go to does not Let cell phones to be out at school so I couldn't inter them into the I-Phone at school.

Any help would be appreciated
Thank you

From missheather at comcast.net  Tue Jan 11 02:04:43 2011
From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:04:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org><000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com>
	<D31D59F96B2145EFACE0CC4C8AE15AE3@MarcPC>
Message-ID: <43BDD5BA6E35447783C7830A950C85C9@heathersony>

Mark, some interesting points.
However, I'm not convinced that the, I have to do extra work in this 
course and that's discrimination, argument is appropriate in this 
situation.

I don't believe that we are actually discussing a situation in which 
extra work is required. It is not extra work that is required to 
successfully complete many of the courses that are very visual. In 
most cases, the blind person needs to get sighted assistance, such as 
a reader or describer or a diagramer, but this use of assistance is 
not requiring the blind person to do extra work. The same amount of 
work is covered, it is just completed in a different way. The blind 
person may use a bit more time while listening to descriptions and so 
on. However, I don't think there are many sighted students who don't 
have to spend extra time on one course or other during their time at 
college. Very few students are great at everything and usually, most 
of us struggle in one area or other. many average students use extra 
time on particular subjects because they are difficult for them.

By way of a real life example. A sighted friend of mine was required 
to take a language course as part of his undergraduate degree. He 
detests learning a foreign language and he is horrible at it. He spent 
hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars on a tutor and he barely 
scraped over the pass mark. I don't believe that it was discrimination 
to make him take a language course. The business faculty considered 
that graduates should have a basic knowledge of at least one of the 
languages spoken by the country's largest trading partners. The 
designers of that degree program decided on what program components 
would turn out a well-rounded, competent business student. This same 
friend, who struggled with the language course, actually tutored three 
fellow students who were floundering with one of the accounting 
courses that they were required to take one semester. These three 
students spent hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars to acquire 
knowledge and skills to pass their accounting courses. So, all of 
these students were required to spend extra time and effort on the 
particular required courses which they found challenging if they 
wanted to graduate with the business degree from that university.

So, even though blind people are often required to spend extra time, 
and sometimes money, though the disability office usually pays for 
assistance, in the grand scheme of college experience, it doesn't 
appear to me that the blind end up doing more than most students. 
Given the incredibly large number of options available to creative, 
blind problem-solvers in finding ways to access information and learn 
skills, it is hard to imagine many courses where a waiver is the best 
answer. Perhaps if a course required portrait and landscape painting, 
a case could be made that the blind person couldn't do this with 
assistance. But, there are no doubt possible substitutions that the 
art professor would accept such as a a relief carving in clay or 
drawing using raised line drawing materials. I cannot imagine a reason 
why a blind person should receive a waiver from a performing arts 
program as there are blind people who perform in just about every 
branch of the performing arts.

In my experience, most blind people request waivers because they don't 
know how they can make accommodations for a particular course. Yet, 
when they actually get into the situation they come up with ideas and 
methods and end up passing the course without undue difficulty or 
hardship. Sadly, and this is an unpleasant truth, many blind students 
also request waivers because they are afraid of going out of their 
comfort zone. Imagine how many students would request waivers if they 
could use discomfort as a reason. But, blind students are often 
working with sighted people who have no idea what abilities and skills 
blind people have, so they allow the blind student to substitute the 
word "blind" for the words uncomfortable and unwilling, and they grant 
them a waiver.

the argument that no waivers are given in the working world is a 
compelling one for refusing waivers and taking the opportunity to 
develop problem-solving skills and positive attitudes towards 
challenging situations. The years spent at college are a 
once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for blind students to learn the skills 
and attitudes that they will need to be successful employees. Whether 
or not an ethical argument for discrimination can be made in this 
context, and I'm not convinced that it can, reality makes it's own 
immutable point. If you don't learn to be a creative problem-solver 
and a proactive and flexible blind person, willing and able to adapt 
to the challenges of living in a sighted world, then you will not 
succeed in obtaining and maintaining employment in your career of 
choice.

YES! There is absolutely a place for collective action to work to 
improve the overall accessibility of the sighted world for the blind. 
But, total accessibility to the sighted world requires sight. In the 
meantime blind people have ethical decisions to make daily about what 
is a reasonable accommodation and what is an unnecessary waiver.

On the question of the NFB asking for waivers, I submit the following. 
I don't believe that the NFB has asked for blind people to be allowed 
to work while not losing their welfare payments. I am by no means an 
expert on this topic so please correct me those who know about such 
things. However, as I understand it, There are two kinds of disability 
payments that blind people may receive. SSi, and SSDI.
In the case of the first, if a blind recipient starts to work, they 
will lose government payment dollars at the same rate as sighted 
recipients though, given the unique equipment needs of blind workers 
in many situations, There is a provision where blind workers may 
retain benefits if they are putting their job earnings toward certain 
essential, job-related equipment, transportation etc.

In the case of SSDI, blind recipients also start to lose benefits at 
the same rate as sighted recipients. The NFB has been trying to have 
the earnings limit raised so that the disincentive not to work and 
loose benefits is not so large. They are only seeking to have the 
earnings limit raised to where it matches that given to senior 
citizens receiving government benefits. Thus, the NFB is seeking an 
already existing benefit be extended to blind workers and is not 
requesting a waiver on the earnings limit.

Regards,

Heather


'm not sure,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.

SW,
Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges 
and
extra work not required of other students.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

MW,
Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have. 
How
about:

Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges 
and
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, 
solely
because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above 
version.
Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases 
are
not the same.

Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges 
and
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, 
solely
because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are unfair. 
I'm not
sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind 
something like
just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are unfair is 
like
saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We certainly do 
have to
do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly because we live in an 
unjust
world, but this doesn't mean we should have to do these things.

The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to 
take
very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has 
been
badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only 
sighted
students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's 
unjust,
and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to require a 
music
appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there were a 
university
for the blind, would it make sense to require these highly visual 
courses?
My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be learned from taking
courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I agree, but I'm 
also
sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation course, and if 
this
blind university required an art history course, the courses would be
designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't be 
forced
to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people who
designed the course/curriculum.

SW,
If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. 
The
"when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

MW,
If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all 
its
forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do 
extra
work simply because they are blind.

SW,
Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the
optional trip?"

MW,
Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an 
argument
showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have 
something, but
without this, I think the analogy fails.

SW,
Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue 
to
build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure 
you
that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.

MW,
It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for
things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking 
Alone and
Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early 
goals
of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn 
money in
the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this 
not a
kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn 
a
certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is 
one
example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a 
change
has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind 
people
and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a 
kind of
a waver.

I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal 
treatment,
or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This is a
simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good reasons for
wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that 
treating her
the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then there 
is
nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees that
differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the 
abilities of
blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I will 
hold
him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for 
insisting on
her right to be free from discrimination.

I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design 
of
products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up 
with
clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all 
blind
people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.

Best,

Marc


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Good afternoon,
>
> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB 
> to
> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit 
> use,
> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. 
> People,
> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the 
> impression
> that
> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If 
> you
> want
> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the 
> programs
> we
> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we 
> all
> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may 
> or may
> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the 
> group. I,
> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the 
> NFB's
> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a 
> member
> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. 
> Like
> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a 
> Democrat,
> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views? 
> Would
> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel 
> about
> every
> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. 
> So, why
> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I 
> feel
> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.
>
> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take 
> a
> waiver
> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should 
> there be.
> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our
> membership,
> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."
>
> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, 
> counterproductive,
> and
> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a 
> case
> where
> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
> everything.
>
> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required 
> for a
> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential 
> for
> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other 
> credits
> somewhere else. The argument goes:
>
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges 
> and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, 
> please
> don't
> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me 
> so much
> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really 
> needs math
> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional
> English
> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. 
> Better,
> no
> chance in hell.
>
> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or
> disagree
> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating 
> reasonably
> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the 
> line
> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from 
> certain
> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, 
> took
> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily 
> visual in
> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers 
> I was
> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any 
> of the
> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine 
> economic
> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what 
> economists
> are
> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the 
> right
> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the 
> graph.
> So
> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all 
> they are
> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
> underlying concept is what is important.
>
> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required 
> to
> take
> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a
> class,
> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But 
> what if I
> had been required to take a class on art history or something of the 
> sort.
> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me? 
> Would
> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of
> learning
> about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would 
> not,
> which,
> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't 
> fair.
> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the 
> progression
> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, 
> hopefully I
> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will 
> any of
> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to 
> graduate. So
> I
> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If 
> we
> say
> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
> "when it
> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art 
> class
> or
> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip 
> abroad,
> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you 
> need
> to
> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major, 
> and
> besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems."
> Wouldn't
> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
> optional
> trip?"
>
> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.
>
> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too 
> hard,
> then
> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you 
> believe
> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where 
> you
> want
> to be in life.
>
> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the 
> wall. All
> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks 
> because I'm
> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also 
> suck
> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having 
> one
> leg;
> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!
>
> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and 
> continue to
> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, 
> assure you
> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>
> Sean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net 




From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 02:11:09 2011
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:11:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Syncing computers planners
In-Reply-To: <B001E0C6-8D6C-4920-82CD-0A9DE6431BC7@gmail.com>
References: <00eb01cbb08d$7d9168f0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1>
	<B001E0C6-8D6C-4920-82CD-0A9DE6431BC7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D2BBC3D.9030600@gmail.com>

Hello,

Have you looked at google calendar? This will require you to have 
internet access, but it might be worth looking at.

Thanks
Nimer J

On 01/10/2011 07:57 PM, David Thomas wrote:
>> Hi This is David Thomas.
> I am a student in the second semester of eighth grade and Need some tech help.
> I have a mac at school, a mac at home, an I-phone and a braille note empower.
> I need to figure out a way to have a planner that has all the appointments, homework assignments, and upcoming projects.
> I wan't them all to sync together without interring them on each device.
> The school mac only will have internet at home unless we can figure out how to get it on the schools network that runs on PC's.
> The I-phone, home mac, and the Braille note could be connected at home on the same network.
> At the school I go to does not Let cell phones to be out at school so I couldn't inter them into the I-Phone at school.
>
> Any help would be appreciated
> Thank you
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com


From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 02:18:39 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:18:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all!

Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
 Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
Thanks,
Justin


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 02:57:47 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:57:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTini-HuL2yUm1RYZCLXh+qyK74jRDZC=XVgac1VY@mail.gmail.com>

Justin,
If you are using the BrailleNote, enable the language you wish to use,
then set the braille grade to that language. You should be able to put
in whatever you need. If you're using a computer, I really have no
idea.
Patrick

On 1/10/11, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
> know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
>  Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 03:03:10 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:03:10 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Bulletin Announcements
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiktdoyjkFGVLacPdOhjjAuNHutq9FrkhbdhfNOC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTiktdoyjkFGVLacPdOhjjAuNHutq9FrkhbdhfNOC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikAKkYfrr_q1Jxk0OXjG5dew77BmDJcKLkZ+_7V@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Since i've only received one announcement request so far, I'd like to
open up the bulletin to publicizing any Washington Seminar
fund-raisers state divisions will be having. If your division is
selling or raffling anything at Washington Seminar, please submit the
announcements to me by Friday and I will publish them far and wide.
[To save space, let's limit this to student division fund-raisers
only, not chapter fund-raisers].

Thanks!
Arielle

On 1/4/11, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> Another NABS bulletin will be coming out soon! If you have any
> announcements you would like to make before Washington Seminar, please
> send them to me by the end of the week. Thanks!
> Arielle
>
> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 11 03:04:44 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:04:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
References: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AE785DF653304E33B2F9ADB5298C335E@Ashley>

Are you refering to writing in braille or the keyboard?
If typing, not sure but certain key combinations make the accented letters. 
Dots are accents usually.
If you mean braille, there are contracted braille symbols to stand for the 
accented letters.
Foreign languages are written in uncontracted braille.

Ashley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:18 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols


> Hi all!
>
> Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
> know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
> Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 03:26:39 2011
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:26:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <43BDD5BA6E35447783C7830A950C85C9@heathersony>
References: <mailman.5.1294682403.9081.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org><000501cbb108$10fa87a0$32ef96e0$@com><D31D59F96B2145EFACE0CC4C8AE15AE3@MarcPC>
	<43BDD5BA6E35447783C7830A950C85C9@heathersony>
Message-ID: <D7AD0E7DE454483FA92191D3020743C5@MarcPC>

Hello Heather,

It would take more time than I have if I were to respond to all of your 
points, but I'll take a few minutes to say a few things.

H said,
However, I'm not convinced that the, I have to do extra work in this course 
and that's discrimination, argument is appropriate in this situation.

M says,
I wouldn't be convinced if I were you either.  It's a good thing that that 
is not my position.  You left out a key caveat, and this omission undermines 
much of what you say afterwards.  What I said was it is a form of 
discrimination to require a blind student to do extra work simply because 
that student is blind.

First, you say it is not extra work, which I think the actual facts would 
show to be false, though neither of us can offer proof here I'm sure, but 
then you admit that it may take a bit more time, which is really all I need 
to make my case.

It may be true that sighted students have to spend a bit more time on one 
course or another, but are they being forced to do this simply because they 
are sighted?  As noted above, it isn't just the extra work, it's the extra 
work that is required of the student solely because she is blind.

H said,
it doesn't appear to me that the blind end up doing more than most students.

M says,
I'm afraid I don't have evidence to back this up, but I would be very 
comfortable betting a large sum of money on the fact that blind students, on 
average, take longer to complete their university degrees than sighted 
students.  I attend a university with several dozen blind students, and this 
is, I believe, the case here.  I don't think it's because the students are 
lazy or stupid, at least not anymore so than the average student, it's 
because the classes are designed to be completed by sighted students using 
visual techniques.

H said,
Given the incredibly large number of options available to creative, blind 
problem-solvers in finding ways to access information and learn skills, it 
is hard to imagine many courses where a waiver is the best answer.

M says,
I'm not sure what you mean when you say best answer.  Best for whom? The 
student? The professor? Blind people generally? Society at large?

I can think of many situations where having a class waved would be better 
for a student.  A course that the student is going to have to put a lot of 
effort in to make accessible, and that she is going to get very little out 
of, and that does not contribute to her future plans in any meaningful way. 
This would obviously be a situation where waving the course would be best 
for the student.  And this would apply to many sighted students as well. 
It's only when the student is being require to put in more effort, and only 
because she is blind, that I think it constitutes discrimination and is thus 
good grounds for not taking that particular course.  Waving the course may 
not do anything to challenge the discrimination, so I'm willing to admit 
that it may not be best for blind people generally, but my point was only 
that wanting to avoid discrimination is a legitimate reason for insisting 
that course requirements be adapted.

I don't dispute what you say about why wavers are often requested.  I only 
say that this is not the only reason to request them.

H said,
the argument that no waivers are given in the working world is a compelling 
one for refusing waivers and taking the opportunity to develop 
problem-solving skills and positive attitudes towards challenging 
situations.

M says,
Here, I'm not sure what you mean by waver.  Joe recently told a story of 
switching tasks with his employer in order to be more efficient.  He was 
assigned one task, and he ended up doing another because the overall 
efficiency was maximized by him taking on the other task.  This sounds to me 
like a waver, and one that was given in the working world.  In fact, I would 
argue that this sort of nagotiating of tasks happens all the time.  It's 
important to remember that waving a course requirement doesn't mean you 
replace it with nothing.  You wave it and replace it with some agreed upon 
alternative.  At least, this is what I would suggest if someone wanted to 
try to have a requirement waved.

Finally, with respect to the NFB on welfare benefits, I was talking about a 
historical position.  And I'm not familiar enough with the details, but you 
yourself made the point for me.

H said,
They are only seeking to have the earnings limit raised to where it matches 
that given to senior citizens receiving government benefits. Thus, the NFB 
is seeking an already existing benefit be extended to blind workers and is 
not requesting a waiver on the earnings limit.

M says,
So the NFB is requesting that a benefit that is normally extended only to 
seniors be given to all blind people, whether or not they are seniors? 
Again, we may be working with different definitions of the word waver, but 
we are talking about having the rules changed so that things will be easier 
for blind people.  How is what you said, receiving benefits normally given 
only to seniors, different than what I said, receiving benefits normally not 
given to anyone.  Besides the obvious, which isn't an important difference 
at all.

Best,

Marc

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "H. Field" <missheather at comcast.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Mark, some interesting points.
> However, I'm not convinced that the, I have to do extra work in this
> course and that's discrimination, argument is appropriate in this
> situation.
>
> I don't believe that we are actually discussing a situation in which
> extra work is required. It is not extra work that is required to
> successfully complete many of the courses that are very visual. In
> most cases, the blind person needs to get sighted assistance, such as
> a reader or describer or a diagramer, but this use of assistance is
> not requiring the blind person to do extra work. The same amount of
> work is covered, it is just completed in a different way. The blind
> person may use a bit more time while listening to descriptions and so
> on. However, I don't think there are many sighted students who don't
> have to spend extra time on one course or other during their time at
> college. Very few students are great at everything and usually, most
> of us struggle in one area or other. many average students use extra
> time on particular subjects because they are difficult for them.
>
> By way of a real life example. A sighted friend of mine was required
> to take a language course as part of his undergraduate degree. He
> detests learning a foreign language and he is horrible at it. He spent
> hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars on a tutor and he barely
> scraped over the pass mark. I don't believe that it was discrimination
> to make him take a language course. The business faculty considered
> that graduates should have a basic knowledge of at least one of the
> languages spoken by the country's largest trading partners. The
> designers of that degree program decided on what program components
> would turn out a well-rounded, competent business student. This same
> friend, who struggled with the language course, actually tutored three
> fellow students who were floundering with one of the accounting
> courses that they were required to take one semester. These three
> students spent hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars to acquire
> knowledge and skills to pass their accounting courses. So, all of
> these students were required to spend extra time and effort on the
> particular required courses which they found challenging if they
> wanted to graduate with the business degree from that university.
>
> So, even though blind people are often required to spend extra time,
> and sometimes money, though the disability office usually pays for
> assistance, in the grand scheme of college experience, it doesn't
> appear to me that the blind end up doing more than most students.
> Given the incredibly large number of options available to creative,
> blind problem-solvers in finding ways to access information and learn
> skills, it is hard to imagine many courses where a waiver is the best
> answer. Perhaps if a course required portrait and landscape painting,
> a case could be made that the blind person couldn't do this with
> assistance. But, there are no doubt possible substitutions that the
> art professor would accept such as a a relief carving in clay or
> drawing using raised line drawing materials. I cannot imagine a reason
> why a blind person should receive a waiver from a performing arts
> program as there are blind people who perform in just about every
> branch of the performing arts.
>
> In my experience, most blind people request waivers because they don't
> know how they can make accommodations for a particular course. Yet,
> when they actually get into the situation they come up with ideas and
> methods and end up passing the course without undue difficulty or
> hardship. Sadly, and this is an unpleasant truth, many blind students
> also request waivers because they are afraid of going out of their
> comfort zone. Imagine how many students would request waivers if they
> could use discomfort as a reason. But, blind students are often
> working with sighted people who have no idea what abilities and skills
> blind people have, so they allow the blind student to substitute the
> word "blind" for the words uncomfortable and unwilling, and they grant
> them a waiver.
>
> the argument that no waivers are given in the working world is a
> compelling one for refusing waivers and taking the opportunity to
> develop problem-solving skills and positive attitudes towards
> challenging situations. The years spent at college are a
> once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for blind students to learn the skills
> and attitudes that they will need to be successful employees. Whether
> or not an ethical argument for discrimination can be made in this
> context, and I'm not convinced that it can, reality makes it's own
> immutable point. If you don't learn to be a creative problem-solver
> and a proactive and flexible blind person, willing and able to adapt
> to the challenges of living in a sighted world, then you will not
> succeed in obtaining and maintaining employment in your career of
> choice.
>
> YES! There is absolutely a place for collective action to work to
> improve the overall accessibility of the sighted world for the blind.
> But, total accessibility to the sighted world requires sight. In the
> meantime blind people have ethical decisions to make daily about what
> is a reasonable accommodation and what is an unnecessary waiver.
>
> On the question of the NFB asking for waivers, I submit the following.
> I don't believe that the NFB has asked for blind people to be allowed
> to work while not losing their welfare payments. I am by no means an
> expert on this topic so please correct me those who know about such
> things. However, as I understand it, There are two kinds of disability
> payments that blind people may receive. SSi, and SSDI.
> In the case of the first, if a blind recipient starts to work, they
> will lose government payment dollars at the same rate as sighted
> recipients though, given the unique equipment needs of blind workers
> in many situations, There is a provision where blind workers may
> retain benefits if they are putting their job earnings toward certain
> essential, job-related equipment, transportation etc.
>
> In the case of SSDI, blind recipients also start to lose benefits at
> the same rate as sighted recipients. The NFB has been trying to have
> the earnings limit raised so that the disincentive not to work and
> loose benefits is not so large. They are only seeking to have the
> earnings limit raised to where it matches that given to senior
> citizens receiving government benefits. Thus, the NFB is seeking an
> already existing benefit be extended to blind workers and is not
> requesting a waiver on the earnings limit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Heather
>
>
> 'm not sure,
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
> I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.
>
> SW,
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges
> and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
> MW,
> Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have.
> How
> about:
>
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges
> and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students,
> solely
> because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
> Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above
> version.
> Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases
> are
> not the same.
>
> Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges
> and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students,
> solely
> because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
> Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are unfair.
> I'm not
> sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind
> something like
> just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are unfair is
> like
> saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We certainly do
> have to
> do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly because we live in an
> unjust
> world, but this doesn't mean we should have to do these things.
>
> The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to
> take
> very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has
> been
> badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only
> sighted
> students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's
> unjust,
> and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to require a
> music
> appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there were a
> university
> for the blind, would it make sense to require these highly visual
> courses?
> My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be learned from taking
> courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I agree, but I'm
> also
> sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation course, and if
> this
> blind university required an art history course, the courses would be
> designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't be
> forced
> to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people who
> designed the course/curriculum.
>
> SW,
> If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it.
> The
> "when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
> MW,
> If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all
> its
> forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do
> extra
> work simply because they are blind.
>
> SW,
> Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the
> optional trip?"
>
> MW,
> Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an
> argument
> showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have
> something, but
> without this, I think the analogy fails.
>
> SW,
> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue
> to
> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure
> you
> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>
> MW,
> It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for
> things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking
> Alone and
> Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early
> goals
> of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn
> money in
> the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this
> not a
> kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn
> a
> certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is
> one
> example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a
> change
> has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind
> people
> and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a
> kind of
> a waver.
>
> I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal
> treatment,
> or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This is a
> simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good reasons for
> wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that
> treating her
> the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then there
> is
> nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees that
> differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the
> abilities of
> blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I will
> hold
> him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for
> insisting on
> her right to be free from discrimination.
>
> I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design
> of
> products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up
> with
> clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all
> blind
> people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the NFB
>> to
>> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit
>> use,
>> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
>> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all.
>> People,
>> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the
>> impression
>> that
>> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. If
>> you
>> want
>> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the
>> programs
>> we
>> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while we
>> all
>> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization may
>> or may
>> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the
>> group. I,
>> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the
>> NFB's
>> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a
>> member
>> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions.
>> Like
>> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a
>> Democrat,
>> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of views?
>> Would
>> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel
>> about
>> every
>> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't.
>> So, why
>> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how I
>> feel
>> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.
>>
>> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should take
>> a
>> waiver
>> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should
>> there be.
>> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our
>> membership,
>> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."
>>
>> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy,
>> counterproductive,
>> and
>> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a
>> case
>> where
>> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
>> everything.
>>
>> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is required
>> for a
>> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not essential
>> for
>> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 other
>> credits
>> somewhere else. The argument goes:
>>
>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges
>> and
>> extra work not required of other students.
>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>>
>> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
>> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>>
>> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>>
>> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind,
>> please
>> don't
>> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes me
>> so much
>> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really
>> needs math
>> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some additional
>> English
>> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe.
>> Better,
>> no
>> chance in hell.
>>
>> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree or
>> disagree
>> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating
>> reasonably
>> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with the
>> line
>> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from
>> certain
>> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way,
>> took
>> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily
>> visual in
>> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and readers
>> I was
>> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having any
>> of the
>> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine
>> economic
>> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what
>> economists
>> are
>> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask the
>> right
>> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from the
>> graph.
>> So
>> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all
>> they are
>> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of the
>> underlying concept is what is important.
>>
>> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was required
>> to
>> take
>> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take such a
>> class,
>> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But
>> what if I
>> had been required to take a class on art history or something of the
>> sort.
>> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to me?
>> Would
>> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester of
>> learning
>> about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure of
>> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would
>> not,
>> which,
>> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that isn't
>> fair.
>> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the
>> progression
>> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes,
>> hopefully I
>> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither will
>> any of
>> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to
>> graduate. So
>> I
>> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. If
>> we
>> say
>> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The
>> "when it
>> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>>
>> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome art
>> class
>> or
>> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip
>> abroad,
>> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do you
>> need
>> to
>> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your major,
>> and
>> besides, it would really present us with some logistical problems."
>> Wouldn't
>> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the
>> optional
>> trip?"
>>
>> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.
>>
>> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too
>> hard,
>> then
>> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you
>> believe
>> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up where
>> you
>> want
>> to be in life.
>>
>> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the
>> wall. All
>> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks
>> because I'm
>> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things also
>> suck
>> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or having
>> one
>> leg;
>> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!
>>
>> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
>> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and
>> continue to
>> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however,
>> assure you
>> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Tue Jan 11 03:47:16 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:47:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
Message-ID: <u3mp1f00R2PutTY053n8HV@netzero.net>

Oh other little thing here: Some people are saying in these 
threads things like, "Oh, it sucks being blind," or "Oh being 
blind is hard," or "Oh, there are things I don't like about being 
blind." Honestly, and essentially, everyone can feel that way. 
But that shouldn't be my attitude, nor your attitude, nor our 
attitudes, nor everyone who is blind's attitudes.
My attitude is that BLINDNESS is BEAUTIFUL!! I LOVE BEING BLIND! 
Being Blind is just being someone ordinary in our world, and we 
are normal people who can't see, and life should be worth it!

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:50:49 -0600
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

>Good afternoon,

>I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the 
NFB to
>prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, paratransit 
use,
>reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not accept
>assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at all. 
People,
>both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the 
impression that
>we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. 
If you want
>to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the 
programs we
>implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, while 
we all
>work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization 
may or may
>not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the 
group. I,
>for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the 
NFB's
>policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be a 
member
>does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own opinions. 
Like
>anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a 
Democrat,
>would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of 
views? Would
>your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel 
about every
>issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it wouldn't. 
So, why
>does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing how 
I feel
>about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.

>This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should 
take a waiver
>for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should 
there be.
>Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our 
membership,
>but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."

>My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, 
counterproductive, and
>absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me a 
case where
>a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples to
>everything.

>Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is 
required for a
>BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not 
essential for
>your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 
other credits
>somewhere else. The argument goes:

>Being blind, this class would present me with additional 
challenges and
>extra work not required of other students.
>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

>Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise 
there
>somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

>People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

>That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, 
please don't
>make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes 
me so much
>longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really 
needs math
>anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some 
additional English
>credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. 
Better, no
>chance in hell.

>Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree 
or disagree
>with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating 
reasonably
>well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with 
the line
>about how blind students simply won't take anything away from 
certain
>classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, 
took
>calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily 
visual in
>many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and 
readers I was
>able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having 
any of the
>information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or examine 
economic
>or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what 
economists are
>talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask 
the right
>questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from 
the graph. So
>often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when all 
they are
>are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of 
the
>underlying concept is what is important.

>So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was 
required to take
>one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take 
such a class,
>and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But 
what if I
>had been required to take a class on art history or something of 
the sort.
>What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to 
me? Would
>that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester 
of learning
>about different styles of painting would I ever have the pleasure 
of
>enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would 
not, which,
>incidentally is just another one of those things in life that 
isn't fair.
>But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the 
progression
>of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, 
hopefully I
>would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither 
will any of
>the other students in the class who were forced to take it to 
graduate. So I
>had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is life. 
If we say
>we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
"when it
>suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

>Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome 
art class or
>science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student trip 
abroad,
>and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do 
you need to
>come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your 
major, and
>besides, it would really present us with some logistical 
problems." Wouldn't
>it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
optional trip?"

>I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.

>If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just too 
hard, then
>either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what you 
believe
>and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up 
where you want
>to be in life.

>Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the 
wall. All
>the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks 
because I'm
>blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things 
also suck
>about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or 
having one leg;
>or growing old and dying. That. is. life!

>Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things 
less
>difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and 
continue to
>build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, 
assure you
>that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a 
waiver.

>Sean


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Tue Jan 11 03:46:58 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:46:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
Message-ID: <u3mp1f00R2PutTY053mqD4@netzero.net>

Bravo bravo bravo!!!!!! nice dreams!!! The future is in our way, 
the ball is now in our court, and we can be the change for the 
world of screen-reading technology with NVDA. Some day, some day 
we will be able to read graphical objects and other inaccessible 
stuff with screen readers, and maybe the screen readers will be 
able to describe pictures!

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 22:13:18 -0500
>Subject: [nabs-l] waver

>Hi

>Guys why not give NVDA 2010.2 a chance? It has video hooks, you 
can
>script it, its free, its open source! So to tell you the truth 
guys I
>have been using NVDA as my primary screen reader for a year or so 
now.
>And since it got video hooks and an off-screen display model its 
great!
>Oh and if I don't like a certain hotkey I can change it. It has a
>pronunciation dictionary and many configurable options. And if 
you know
>python you can script it to your heart's content. My point is if
>supernova can be and has been scripted for ms-project then why 
not
>NVDA2010.2 and later snapshots? Imagine NVDA coming with tons of
>scripts. Imagine NVDA being the primary screen reader that state
>agencies recommend. If you want Jaws in Spanish that's an extra 
expense.
>Want NVDA2010.2 and later in spanish?
>1. press insert control g for the general dialog.
>2 arrow down in the language interface combo box to spanish, tab 
to ok
>and hit enter. when prompted to restart nvda say yes. now switch 
ESpeak
>or your sapi4 or sapi5 synthesizer to spanish and you got 
yourself a
>spanish screen reader with spanish help files and spanish 
everything.
>Maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Maybe I am thinking too 
big! yes
>thats it I'm thinking too big! oh heck my primary screen reader 
has
>video hooks and an off-screen model, a review cursor the ability 
to
>click mouse with the review cursor. and it can be scripted. so, 
anyone
>out there anyone know python? anyone can script ms-object for 
nvda? Why
>should I make voc rehab buy supernova? What if NVDA once scripted 
can
>provide the same access that supernova provides?

>Josh

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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5369%40netzero.net



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Tue Jan 11 03:47:23 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:47:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
Message-ID: <u3mp1f00R2PutTY053nEJv@netzero.net>

High 5!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with this!

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:08:10 -0700
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

>I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.

>SW,
>Being blind, this class would present me with additional 
challenges and
>extra work not required of other students.
>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

>Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise 
there
>somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

>People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

>MW,
>Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could 
have.  How
>about:

>Being blind, this class would present me with additional 
challenges and
>extra work not required of other students.
>Being require to complete extra work not required of other 
students, solely
>because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
>Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

>Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above 
version.
>Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two 
cases are
>not the same.

>Being a woman, this class would present me with additional 
challenges and
>extra work not required of other students.
>Being require to complete extra work not required of other 
students, solely
>because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
>Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

>Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are 
unfair.  I'm not
>sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind 
something like
>just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are unfair 
is like
>saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We certainly 
do have to
>do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly because we live in 
an unjust
>world, but this doesn't mean we should have to do these things.

>The point I would make is that a college that requires all 
students to take
>very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree 
has been
>badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only 
sighted
>students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, 
it's unjust,
>and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to 
require a music
>appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there were a 
university
>for the blind, would it make sense to require these highly visual 
courses?
>My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be learned from 
taking
>courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I agree, but 
I'm also
>sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation course, and 
if this
>blind university required an art history course, the courses 
would be
>designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't 
be forced
>to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people 
who
>designed the course/curriculum.

>SW,
>If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to 
mean it. The
>"when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

>MW,
>If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, 
in all its
>forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to 
do extra
>work simply because they are blind.

>SW,
>Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip 
the
>optional trip?"

>MW,
>Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an 
argument
>showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have 
something, but
>without this, I think the analogy fails.

>SW,
>Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things 
less
>difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and 
continue to
>build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, 
assure you
>that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a 
waiver.

>MW,
>It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has 
asked for
>things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read 
Walking Alone and
>Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the 
early goals
>of the organization was to make it so that blind people could 
earn money in
>the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is 
this not a
>kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they 
earn a
>certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This 
is one
>example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time 
a change
>has been requested that is designed to make things easier for 
blind people
>and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as 
a kind of
>a waver.

>I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal 
treatment,
>or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This 
is a
>simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good 
reasons for
>wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that 
treating her
>the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then 
there is
>nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees 
that
>differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the 
abilities of
>blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I 
will hold
>him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for 
insisting on
>her right to be free from discrimination.

>I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory 
design of
>products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming 
up with
>clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, 
all blind
>people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.

>Best,

>Marc


>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


>> Good afternoon,

>> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the 
NFB to
>> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, 
paratransit use,
>> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not 
accept
>> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at 
all. People,
>> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the 
impression
>> that
>> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. 
If you
>> want
>> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the 
programs
>> we
>> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, 
while we all
>> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization 
may or may
>> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the 
group. I,
>> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the 
NFB's
>> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be 
a member
>> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own 
opinions. Like
>> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a 
Democrat,
>> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of 
views? Would
>> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel 
about
>> every
>> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it 
wouldn't. So, why
>> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing 
how I feel
>> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.

>> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should 
take a
>> waiver
>> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should 
there be.
>> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our
>> membership,
>> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."

>> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, 
counterproductive,
>> and
>> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me 
a case
>> where
>> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples 
to
>> everything.

>> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is 
required for a
>> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not 
essential for
>> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 
other credits
>> somewhere else. The argument goes:

>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional 
challenges and
>> extra work not required of other students.
>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

>> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise 
there
>> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

>> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

>> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, 
please
>> don't
>> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes 
me so much
>> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really 
needs math
>> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some 
additional
>> English
>> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. 
Better,
>> no
>> chance in hell.

>> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree 
or
>> disagree
>> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating 
reasonably
>> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with 
the line
>> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from 
certain
>> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, 
took
>> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily 
visual in
>> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and 
readers I was
>> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having 
any of the
>> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or 
examine economic
>> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what 
economists
>> are
>> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask 
the right
>> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from 
the graph.
>> So
>> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when 
all they are
>> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of 
the
>> underlying concept is what is important.

>> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was 
required to
>> take
>> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take 
such a
>> class,
>> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But 
what if I
>> had been required to take a class on art history or something of 
the sort.
>> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to 
me? Would
>> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester 
of
>> learning
>> about different styles of painting would I ever have the 
pleasure of
>> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would 
not,
>> which,
>> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that 
isn't fair.
>> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the 
progression
>> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, 
hopefully I
>> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither 
will any of
>> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to 
graduate. So
>> I
>> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is 
life. If we
>> say
>> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
"when it
>> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

>> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome 
art class
>> or
>> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student 
trip abroad,
>> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do 
you need
>> to
>> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your 
major, and
>> besides, it would really present us with some logistical 
problems."
>> Wouldn't
>> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
optional
>> trip?"

>> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.

>> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just 
too hard,
>> then
>> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what 
you believe
>> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up 
where you
>> want
>> to be in life.

>> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the 
wall. All
>> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks 
because I'm
>> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things 
also suck
>> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or 
having one
>> leg;
>> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!

>> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things 
less
>> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and 
continue to
>> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, 
assure you
>> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a 
waiver.

>> Sean


>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.
lists%40gmail.com


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 03:51:08 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:51:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
In-Reply-To: <AE785DF653304E33B2F9ADB5298C335E@Ashley>
References: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AE785DF653304E33B2F9ADB5298C335E@Ashley>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=FZ4XA2485iFgd-oACEUhkqt+iMoJq=HvY=3Z9@mail.gmail.com>

No I am talking like Microsoft word on PC.

On 1/10/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Are you refering to writing in braille or the keyboard?
> If typing, not sure but certain key combinations make the accented letters.
> Dots are accents usually.
> If you mean braille, there are contracted braille symbols to stand for the
> accented letters.
> Foreign languages are written in uncontracted braille.
>
> Ashley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:18 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
>
>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
>> know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
>> Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From amylsabo at comcast.net  Tue Jan 11 04:04:00 2011
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 04:04:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] IN TRANSISTION
Message-ID: <1239102781.959287.1294718640490.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

HELLO ALL,

I HOPE THAT YOU ALL HAD A VERY HAPPY HOLIDAY AND THAT THE NEW YEAR IS GOING TO BE A GOOD ONE FOR YOU ALL! WELL, 2010 WASN'T GOOD FOR ME AT ALL BUT, HOPEFULLY 2011 WILL BE BETTER FOR ME. IT ALL BEGUN IN NOVEMBER OF LAST MONTH WHEN I HAD TO APPEAL MY FINANCIAL AID SINCE MY GPA WAS SO LOW FROM LAST SEMESTER THANKFULLY, IT WENT TROUGH UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF DECEMBER WHICH WAS GOOD!

SO, I FINISHED UP FALL SEMESTER AND CAME HOME TO MICHIGAN FOR THE HOLIDAYS. RIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS GRADES WERE POSTED AND, I COULDN'T ACCESS THEM BECAUSE WHEN I WENT TO GET MY FINANCIAL AID APPEAL TO GO THROUGH THE FINANCIAL AID FORGOT TO MENTION TO ME THAT I HAD TO CLICK ON A CERTAIN LINK ONLINE TO ACCEPT IT EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T KNOW OF THIS SINCE MY COLLEGE'S WEB SITE IS SEMI ACCESSIBLE WITH MY SCREEN READER. SO, AFTER CHRISTMAS I WAS ABLE TO ACCESS MY GRADES AND, I FOUND OUT THAT I HAD FLUNKED OUT OF SCHOOL AND WAS PUT ON ACADEMIC SUSPENSION!

I FELTT LIKE A FAILURE AND, THAT I WAS DUMB AND STUPID! IT WAS VERY STRESSFUL AND VERY EMOTIONAL FOR ME AND, STILL IS... SO, AFTER THE NEW YEAR I TALKED WITH THE ACADEMIC AFFAIRS OFFICE AND, I COULD APPEAL TO BE REMITTED INTO SCHOOL. BUT, AFTER DOING SOME MAJOR SOUL SEARCHING I HAVE DECIDED TO TAKE SOMETIME OFF FROM SCHOOL TO CONCENTRATE ON MY PUBLIC RELATIONS CAREER IN FINDING A JOB IN GOING BACK TO NONPROFIT WORK IN GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES, A EMPHASIS WITH PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES ESPECIALLY WITH BLINDNESS. I ALSO PLAN TO LOOK INTO DOING MEDIA RELATIONS IN RADIO WITH A EMPHASIS IN INTERNET RADIO.

I PLAN TO PURSUE THIS CAREER ADVENTURE IN DENVER, COLORADO BUT, I ALSO STILL HAVE DREAMS OF WORKING IN THESE ADVENTURES IN THE EAST COAST ESPECIALLY NEW YORK. SO, THAT'S WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING TO ME FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS.

I HAVE TOLD THIS NEWS TO SOME OF YOU AND SOME OF YOU HAVE BEEN VERY SUPPORTIVE TO ME AND, I GREATLY APPRECIATE IT AND, I NOW FROM YOU ALL IS YOUR SUPPORT, GUIDANCE, LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING AS I GO THROUGH THIS NEW JOURNEY IN MY LIFE.

THANKS AGAIN AND, I WILL TALK TO YOU ALL SOON.


HUGS ALWAYS,
AMY

From amylsabo at comcast.net  Tue Jan 11 04:16:25 2011
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 04:16:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Your Help And Feedback Are Wanted If You Believe In
 The Djd Invasion
Message-ID: <305086081.959797.1294719385302.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

HELLO ALL,

I HOPE THAT YOU ALL HAD A WONDERFUL HOLIDAY AND GOOD NEW YEAR. SORRY, THAT IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I HAVE SENT OUT ANY NEWS OF THE DJD INVASION AND THE STATION AND ALL.. I HAD TO STEP AWAY FROM THIS JOB DUE TO PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL ISSUES IN MY LIFE. WELL, I'M BACK...

PLEASE READ ON ON THIS ANNOUNCEMEENT AND PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN AND RESPOND TO THE LINKS MENTIONED. YOUR HELP AND COOPERATION ARE OF NEED!


THANKS,
AMY	

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: David Dunphy <djdrocks4ever at gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 00:03:43 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Your Help And Feedback Are Wanted If You Believe In The Djd Invasion




Hi All!
First off, hope everyone had a terrific 

Christmas!
Next...
On Thursday before Christmas Eve, I did a replay of 

my Christmas special. Before that, I made a very sincere recording called The 

Last Words Of David Dunphy For 2010.
This was an attempt to those who have been critical 

of my radio efforts over the past 1.5 years, but it was also a reach out to 

anyone who would listen.
This was posted on twitter, but if you want to help 

me grow my collapsed station future, then here's what you can do.
1. You should, especially if you've had doubts 

about the things I've done over recent times, download this mp3 of a recording 

that explains a lot
http://djd.icastcenter.com/LastWordsOfDavidDunphy2010.mp3
2. After listening to this recording, if you decide 

you want to stay on board and help me move in to the next stages of my 

broadcasting future, please go to
http://djd.icastcenter.com/feedback
and take the brief survey you'll find there. The 

more honest you are, regardless of how critical you might be, the better it will 

serve me.
Please only do these things if you're serious about 

helping me to grow and if you believe in my sincerity.
Thank you.
>From David

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Jan 11 04:35:51 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 20:35:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
References: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com><AE785DF653304E33B2F9ADB5298C335E@Ashley>
	<AANLkTi=FZ4XA2485iFgd-oACEUhkqt+iMoJq=HvY=3Z9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F16AF1FB438442FBA77E05206AB04FD0@stanford.edu>

You do it by turning on num lock and then holding down the alt key and 
punching in on the numpad the ascii code for the symbol. I know the codes 
for the german umlauts.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National Association of 
Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols


> No I am talking like Microsoft word on PC.
>
> On 1/10/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Are you refering to writing in braille or the keyboard?
>> If typing, not sure but certain key combinations make the accented 
>> letters.
>> Dots are accents usually.
>> If you mean braille, there are contracted braille symbols to stand for 
>> the
>> accented letters.
>> Foreign languages are written in uncontracted braille.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:18 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
>>
>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
>>> know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
>>> Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 04:34:51 2011
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 23:34:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
References: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTini-HuL2yUm1RYZCLXh+qyK74jRDZC=XVgac1VY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1683B08084A14BF8B6429C9464354A54@Espy>

Hi there. Which language are you studying, and which mode of writing ar eyou 
using-- braille note or computer? Also, which screen reader do you use? Once 
you give me this information, I can provide you with the proper way to make 
the symbols.
Hope Paulos
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Molloy" <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols


> Justin,
> If you are using the BrailleNote, enable the language you wish to use,
> then set the braille grade to that language. You should be able to put
> in whatever you need. If you're using a computer, I really have no
> idea.
> Patrick
>
> On 1/10/11, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all!
>>
>> Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
>> know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
>>  Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com 



From adrijana.prokopenko at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 07:35:50 2011
From: adrijana.prokopenko at gmail.com (adrijana prokopenko)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:35:50 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for a blind rehabilitation student
Message-ID: <AANLkTim9dfxfycVnrTKfFgKOLnAs=FcWKZt6QHS1tz6B@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

 I am writing to you with regards to a blind student who may be
studying at your university. He is about 36, living in Medford, has
priviously studied music and now may be studying rehabilitation
counseling at a university in or near Boston. university. If you know
of   a person like that studying there, I would appreciate it if you
can help me get in touch with him. He placed an ad for people to
contact him through a site, but the site doesn't allow emails to be
sent to free members. I would appreciate your help very much. And if
anyone else would like to write me off list, feel free to do so. Would
be happy to gane some penpals and chat friends.

Regards,

 Adrijana


From brice.smith319 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 07:56:45 2011
From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 02:56:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Filling out forms
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=xMCx_EBvYrJY000wYJETHXXKOkMHQCwCfr7vv@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm struggling with how to fill out already created forms and
documents, even when an electronic copy is available. I'm referring to
any type of paper where you must insert data in blank spaces including
job applications and various other forms. When I open an application
or form in Microsoft Word they often include a long series of
underlines and seemingly random tabs throughout the document. With a
screen reader, everything appears to run together. I've been told that
Trying to type text in the document can mess up the visual alignment
and layout of the form. What's the best way to handle this? Do I
remove all the markings  and clean up the document as best I can? A
small excerpt from a form I'm trying to fill out is pasted in its
original form from Word below. I don't know if there is a simple
solution I'm overlooking, but I find it hard to manipulate these forms
and add data.

-----

Sources of this information:   	(Check all that apply)
	___TV        				___ Local Agency Website	
___RADIO				___ Larger / Parent Agency Website
___NEWSPAPER        		___ Text, Face book, Spam Email, Tweet
___ OTHER (please be specific):  ______________________________________
__________________________________________________________________

Please rate the following 1 – 5

Ease of access to this information  _____	  Ease of finding specific
info needed	_____
Clarity of information available     _____	  Amount of needed info
available	_____
Layers I had to go through 	        _____  	  Accessible for diverse
populations	_____
Amount of “Distracting “Stuff”     _____        Other:
_______________________  _____
						  Other: _______________________  _____
Overall feeling (Comments): __________________
________________________________________________________________________	

-Brice


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 10:06:21 2011
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 04:06:21 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
In-Reply-To: <F16AF1FB438442FBA77E05206AB04FD0@stanford.edu>
References: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com><AE785DF653304E33B2F9ADB5298C335E@Ashley>
	<AANLkTi=FZ4XA2485iFgd-oACEUhkqt+iMoJq=HvY=3Z9@mail.gmail.com>
	<F16AF1FB438442FBA77E05206AB04FD0@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4046C477-2F23-40F2-A48E-AB7E4167D348@gmail.com>

An easier solution than having to type in these number combinations is to install the keyboard for the language you need to be working in. That way you can type normally and add whatever accents or symbols as you go. I have done this for Spanish, Greek and Hebrew. 

Maybe if you are more specific about what system you are using people can offer more suggestions. I was working with Jaws 9 and Vista at the time I had this set up. I had to add the keyboards to something called the language bar. I needed some sighted assistance in setting up the language bar initially, but once I had, switching between the various keyboards could be done with a keystroke. Alt+Shift if I remember correctly. 

I'm sorry I don't remember the details more clearly. 

Hope this helps. 

Greg
On Jan 10, 2011, at 10:35 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote:

> You do it by turning on num lock and then holding down the alt key and punching in on the numpad the ascii code for the symbol. I know the codes for the german umlauts.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
> To: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
> 
> 
>> No I am talking like Microsoft word on PC.
>> 
>> On 1/10/11, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Are you refering to writing in braille or the keyboard?
>>> If typing, not sure but certain key combinations make the accented letters.
>>> Dots are accents usually.
>>> If you mean braille, there are contracted braille symbols to stand for the
>>> accented letters.
>>> Foreign languages are written in uncontracted braille.
>>> 
>>> Ashley
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:18 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi all!
>>>> 
>>>> Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
>>>> know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
>>>> Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Justin
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 13:25:24 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:25:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Filling out forms
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=xMCx_EBvYrJY000wYJETHXXKOkMHQCwCfr7vv@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=xMCx_EBvYrJY000wYJETHXXKOkMHQCwCfr7vv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin1g+taxUi1wO0cFJNs8QOeDVHyd7ACqGKxujrx@mail.gmail.com>

Brice,
Whenever I have a worksheet to fill out for school, I always clean up
the document to make it accessible. In your case, I would put each
individual question/statement that you have to fill out on a separate
line. Hope this helps,
Patrick

On 1/11/11, Brice Smith <brice.smith319 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm struggling with how to fill out already created forms and
> documents, even when an electronic copy is available. I'm referring to
> any type of paper where you must insert data in blank spaces including
> job applications and various other forms. When I open an application
> or form in Microsoft Word they often include a long series of
> underlines and seemingly random tabs throughout the document. With a
> screen reader, everything appears to run together. I've been told that
> Trying to type text in the document can mess up the visual alignment
> and layout of the form. What's the best way to handle this? Do I
> remove all the markings  and clean up the document as best I can? A
> small excerpt from a form I'm trying to fill out is pasted in its
> original form from Word below. I don't know if there is a simple
> solution I'm overlooking, but I find it hard to manipulate these forms
> and add data.
>
> -----
>
> Sources of this information:   	(Check all that apply)
> 	___TV        				___ Local Agency Website	
> ___RADIO				___ Larger / Parent Agency Website
> ___NEWSPAPER        		___ Text, Face book, Spam Email, Tweet
> ___ OTHER (please be specific):  ______________________________________
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Please rate the following 1 – 5
>
> Ease of access to this information  _____	  Ease of finding specific
> info needed	_____
> Clarity of information available     _____	  Amount of needed info
> available	_____
> Layers I had to go through 	        _____  	  Accessible for diverse
> populations	_____
> Amount of “Distracting “Stuff”     _____        Other:
> _______________________  _____
> 						  Other: _______________________  _____
> Overall feeling (Comments): __________________
> ________________________________________________________________________	
>
> -Brice
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From agrima at nbp.org  Tue Jan 11 14:39:32 2011
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:39:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Our 2011 print/braille Valentines are here!
Message-ID: <002f01cbb19d$5cff7b20$16fe7160$@org>

Our 2011 print/braille Valentine plays with words and sounds - and it's a
decoding game, too! 

Start by identifying the two colorful images on the front - above each image
is its name in braille, which you can decode using the chart on the back
side. When you say them together out loud, you'll "get" the silly Valentine
message. It works whether you are a print reader or a braille scholar. 

Large Packs: 32 print/braille Valentines plus envelopes: $14 
Small Packs: 20 print/braille Valentines plus envelopes: $10 

Our other Valentine cards are also still available! 
Note: All Valentines will ship FREE MATTER FOR THE BLIND until February 1;
after that date we will send via priority mail and charge you for the
postage cost. 


Check out our Valentine Gift Ideas at:
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/VAL11-32.html



******
To order any books, send payment to:
NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302
Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520.
Or order any of our books online at 
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html .



From agrima at nbp.org  Tue Jan 11 14:54:30 2011
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:54:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=krro=TbmGg0W1Q4v5DfKKs-txV8VoKx=asSs_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003401cbb19f$73bca390$5b35eab0$@org>

Hi Justin - I don't know if it's been mentioned, but NBP has a book called
"It's Not On the Keyboard," which tells you how to type all those odd and
foreign-language symbols in Word. It's in both braille and Word formats.
It's here:
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/SPECIAL.html

Best,
Tony Grima, NBP

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Justin Young
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 9:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Making foreign Language symbols

Hi all!

Hope your semesters have begun great!  I had a question.  Does anyone
know how to make those fancy symbols when writing in foreign language?
 Like the 2 dots above a "u" in a German word and so on.
Thanks,
Justin

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/agrima%40nbp.org



From adrijana.prokopenko at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 14:59:37 2011
From: adrijana.prokopenko at gmail.com (adrijana prokopenko)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:59:37 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for a person namedDominic in San Antonio - Texas
Message-ID: <AANLkTimNT4bng7PoJJ__iNLRpChc2H9QKAR=qj+joLSb@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

 I am also trying to find another blind person. Another 42-year old
student studying at the university of Texas in San Antonio. His name
is Dominic, but not sure of his sir name. He has  a brown hair and
green eyes and if anyone can help me, feel free to email me back.
Thanks.

 Adrijana


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Tue Jan 11 15:01:06 2011
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:01:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Filling out forms
References: <AANLkTi=xMCx_EBvYrJY000wYJETHXXKOkMHQCwCfr7vv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin1g+taxUi1wO0cFJNs8QOeDVHyd7ACqGKxujrx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002201cbb1a0$6063fb80$9560c747@BRIAN>

Whenever I had to fill out a form for school I always got sighted assistance 
from another class mate or my girl friend who was also a journalism major!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Molloy" <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Filling out forms


Brice,
Whenever I have a worksheet to fill out for school, I always clean up
the document to make it accessible. In your case, I would put each
individual question/statement that you have to fill out on a separate
line. Hope this helps,
Patrick

On 1/11/11, Brice Smith <brice.smith319 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm struggling with how to fill out already created forms and
> documents, even when an electronic copy is available. I'm referring to
> any type of paper where you must insert data in blank spaces including
> job applications and various other forms. When I open an application
> or form in Microsoft Word they often include a long series of
> underlines and seemingly random tabs throughout the document. With a
> screen reader, everything appears to run together. I've been told that
> Trying to type text in the document can mess up the visual alignment
> and layout of the form. What's the best way to handle this? Do I
> remove all the markings  and clean up the document as best I can? A
> small excerpt from a form I'm trying to fill out is pasted in its
> original form from Word below. I don't know if there is a simple
> solution I'm overlooking, but I find it hard to manipulate these forms
> and add data.
>
> -----
>
> Sources of this information:   (Check all that apply)
> ___TV        ___ Local Agency Website
> ___RADIO ___ Larger / Parent Agency Website
> ___NEWSPAPER        ___ Text, Face book, Spam Email, Tweet
> ___ OTHER (please be specific):  ______________________________________
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Please rate the following 1 – 5
>
> Ease of access to this information  _____   Ease of finding specific
> info needed _____
> Clarity of information available     _____   Amount of needed info
> available _____
> Layers I had to go through         _____    Accessible for diverse
> populations _____
> Amount of “Distracting “Stuff”     _____        Other:
> _______________________  _____
>   Other: _______________________  _____
> Overall feeling (Comments): __________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> -Brice
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net 




From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 15:45:40 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:45:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] BLIO READER
Message-ID: <4D2C7B24.3080700@gmail.com>

Hi

So when is the blio reader going to be accessible? Also why are we still 
paying $1300 for jaws and similar price for window-eyes when NVDA is 
already scriptable? Guys in order for me not to get a waver for my 
future microsoft project course I need access to that software. Voc 
rehab will have to buy window-eyes, supernova or jaws plus pay who knows 
how much to script it to work with project. So why doesn't the nfb 
organise and get people with the talent to start writing appModules for 
NVDA? Or write serotek and ask them to support more software 
applications? I don't have access to readers in rural berks county 
pennsylvania. Also why is the blio reader still not accessible? They 
said it would be accessible in October and blindbargains says that so 
far it only works with jaws. Well guys I have a free open source 
scriptable screen reader right here and even if I had the money I 
wouldn't spend $1295 or so on jaws12. Why should I? nvda and system 
access do most of what I want. I tried learning python and failed. Not 
everybody can be a programmer just like not everybody can be an 
auto-mechanic fixing cars. System access works with mostly everything I 
need except for project. So can we all here on the nabs-l list write 
serotek asking for ms-project support? I don't really have access to 
readers. Neither can I pay for them. I would rather do the work myself, 
learn and experience ms-project for myself. and then the question is 
since nvda2011.1 will be out soon all 2010.2 scripts or appmodules will 
be broken.
I want to take this project class if I can. nvda scripting obviously is 
not stable yet. I bought serotek's build a bundle system access a few 
days ago. I'm a paying customer and I need access to 
ms-project2007-2010. Sometimes I get the feeling that money takes 
precedence over making a program accessible. Don't you guys see that if 
serotek added ms-project support or if nvda got their scripting stable 
and added it these low cost screen readers would be even more useful? Oh 
I can't wait to see the day, if it even happens that system access and 
nvda become the leading screen readers on the market. And when I 
graduate and when I get to baltimore and join the nfb I am going to push 
and push and push for widespread nvda scripting and widespread serotek 
product use. As soon as I can I'm getting docuscanplus and serotek's 
hoverCam neo or HoverCam mini. Blindbargains wrote an article in the top 
stories of 2010. In the article they said the reason or part of the 
reason windows narrator did not become a full screen reader was because 
microsoft caved into pressure from the nfb and other organizations so 
that the $1300 screen reader would remain in the forfront of the 
computer accessibility market. my question is why? and is this even true 
or are blindbargains' claims false? If I need a waver and have to 
replace the project class with another I will but I'd rather not go that 
route. I have two screen readers on here with the potential to give me 
microsoft project accessibility. Now if ms-project accessibility were 
implemented in either software it would benefit many blind people and 
increase our job opportunities. Freedom scientific is disappointing. 
They're up to jaws12 but they only support project2000? Perhaps someone 
at capella could at least script nvda2010.2 to make it work. So far 
there are still two developers, only two, working on nvda. why are there 
not more? Freedom scientific and gw-micro don't even want to seem to 
even hear that nvda exists and is getting better. Serotek on the other 
hand acknowledges nvda's existance. If I ever would win the lottery I 
would spend as much money as needed hire developers and I would make 
nvda the leading screen reader followed by system access. I wonder if gw 
and fs are afraid of nvda and system access taking over? or could it be 
the different state agencies who are afraid of that happening? I wonder 
if there's some conspiracy going on keeping the blind community for the 
most part locked into using gw and fs products? System access reads 
charts in excel and I only have to pay $10 per month to get access to 
that or go to satogo.com and use it that way. It just makes me mad that 
even after I make the agency get me a mac, with windows7, as soon as I 
need something scripted they won't even look at nvda they instead 
gravitate to jaws or window-eyes. This has to be changed.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 15:46:46 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:46:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] slap in the face from microsoft
Message-ID: <4D2C7B66.5040805@gmail.com>

Hi

Here is the blindbargains article which mentions the nfb.

http://www.blindbargains.com/b/5933

Josh


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 11 18:00:59 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:00:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Filling out forms
References: <AANLkTi=xMCx_EBvYrJY000wYJETHXXKOkMHQCwCfr7vv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A5427BA04EB49B083550683625ECE1D@Ashley>

Brice, For official forms I ask a reader to help me.
If its for class or someone I know I remove the underlines and markers and 
type under the questions.
Since they know I use a screen reader they understand.  But official forms I 
want the visual layout still in tact.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brice Smith" <brice.smith319 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:56 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Filling out forms


Hi,

I'm struggling with how to fill out already created forms and
documents, even when an electronic copy is available. I'm referring to
any type of paper where you must insert data in blank spaces including
job applications and various other forms. When I open an application
or form in Microsoft Word they often include a long series of
underlines and seemingly random tabs throughout the document. With a
screen reader, everything appears to run together. I've been told that
Trying to type text in the document can mess up the visual alignment
and layout of the form. What's the best way to handle this? Do I
remove all the markings  and clean up the document as best I can? A
small excerpt from a form I'm trying to fill out is pasted in its
original form from Word below. I don't know if there is a simple
solution I'm overlooking, but I find it hard to manipulate these forms
and add data.

-----

Sources of this information:   (Check all that apply)
___TV        ___ Local Agency Website
___RADIO ___ Larger / Parent Agency Website
___NEWSPAPER        ___ Text, Face book, Spam Email, Tweet
___ OTHER (please be specific):  ______________________________________
__________________________________________________________________

Please rate the following 1 – 5

Ease of access to this information  _____   Ease of finding specific
info needed _____
Clarity of information available     _____   Amount of needed info
available _____
Layers I had to go through         _____    Accessible for diverse
populations _____
Amount of “Distracting “Stuff”     _____        Other:
_______________________  _____
  Other: _______________________  _____
Overall feeling (Comments): __________________
________________________________________________________________________

-Brice

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 18:10:37 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:10:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
Message-ID: <4D2C9D1D.8070401@gmail.com>

Hi

I requested of voc rehab to buy me window-eyes. So I'll see what happens 
plus I asked them to get someone to script it to work with ms-project. 
Serotek said Project won't be accessible with system access anytime 
soon, Jaws's scripting language is very rigid. Plus window-eyes also has 
a payment plan so if voc rehab won't buy it for me I'll just have to 
break down and buy it myself that's all. And maybe someone at the 
college can script window-eyes for ms-project 2007 or 2010 or both.

Josh


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 11 18:24:31 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:24:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] BLIO READER
References: <4D2C7B24.3080700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B1FF80E1DC554A15A02CFB5CF1A9D960@Ashley>

Josh,]
aYour best option is to call the company.
Not everyone knows about the blio reader.  I guess not everything is 
accessible because the blind community is a small market and accessibility 
is not thought of when designing products.

There are companies who do scripting for products but they cost money for 
their services.
Maybe you can work out a payment plan with them. In my area SSB bart group 
does scripting.
Having someone pay for it to be scripted such as a lions club would be the 
best option.  Call around and see what your options are.
It bothers me when people think the only solution is turning to voc rehab.
VR is slow and counselors are less likely to give you what you need with 
budget cuts.
So look into it yourself.  Call the company; write letters.

All your messages say "its unfair things are not accessible.  What is taking 
so long." I wonder too; its not fair but there is not too much we can do 
about it.
Things do cost money; so if money is an issue unfortunately your options are 
also limited.

I hope things work out though.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:45 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] BLIO READER


> Hi
>
> So when is the blio reader going to be accessible? Also why are we still 
> paying $1300 for jaws and similar price for window-eyes when NVDA is 
> already scriptable? Guys in order for me not to get a waver for my future 
> microsoft project course I need access to that software. Voc rehab will 
> have to buy window-eyes, supernova or jaws plus pay who knows how much to 
> script it to work with project. So why doesn't the nfb organise and get 
> people with the talent to start writing appModules for NVDA? Or write 
> serotek and ask them to support more software applications? I don't have 
> access to readers in rural berks county pennsylvania. Also why is the blio 
> reader still not accessible? They said it would be accessible in October 
> and blindbargains says that so far it only works with jaws. Well guys I 
> have a free open source scriptable screen reader right here and even if I 
> had the money I wouldn't spend $1295 or so on jaws12. Why should I? nvda 
> and system access do most of what I want. I tried learning python and 
> failed. Not everybody can be a programmer just like not everybody can be 
> an auto-mechanic fixing cars. System access works with mostly everything I 
> need except for project. So can we all here on the nabs-l list write 
> serotek asking for ms-project support? I don't really have access to 
> readers. Neither can I pay for them. I would rather do the work myself, 
> learn and experience ms-project for myself. and then the question is since 
> nvda2011.1 will be out soon all 2010.2 scripts or appmodules will be 
> broken.
> I want to take this project class if I can. nvda scripting obviously is 
> not stable yet. I bought serotek's build a bundle system access a few days 
> ago. I'm a paying customer and I need access to ms-project2007-2010. 
> Sometimes I get the feeling that money takes precedence over making a 
> program accessible. Don't you guys see that if serotek added ms-project 
> support or if nvda got their scripting stable and added it these low cost 
> screen readers would be even more useful? Oh I can't wait to see the day, 
> if it even happens that system access and nvda become the leading screen 
> readers on the market. And when I graduate and when I get to baltimore and 
> join the nfb I am going to push and push and push for widespread nvda 
> scripting and widespread serotek product use. As soon as I can I'm getting 
> docuscanplus and serotek's hoverCam neo or HoverCam mini. Blindbargains 
> wrote an article in the top stories of 2010. In the article they said the 
> reason or part of the reason windows narrator did not become a full screen 
> reader was because microsoft caved into pressure from the nfb and other 
> organizations so that the $1300 screen reader would remain in the forfront 
> of the computer accessibility market. my question is why? and is this even 
> true or are blindbargains' claims false? If I need a waver and have to 
> replace the project class with another I will but I'd rather not go that 
> route. I have two screen readers on here with the potential to give me 
> microsoft project accessibility. Now if ms-project accessibility were 
> implemented in either software it would benefit many blind people and 
> increase our job opportunities. Freedom scientific is disappointing. 
> They're up to jaws12 but they only support project2000? Perhaps someone at 
> capella could at least script nvda2010.2 to make it work. So far there are 
> still two developers, only two, working on nvda. why are there not more? 
> Freedom scientific and gw-micro don't even want to seem to even hear that 
> nvda exists and is getting better. Serotek on the other hand acknowledges 
> nvda's existance. If I ever would win the lottery I would spend as much 
> money as needed hire developers and I would make nvda the leading screen 
> reader followed by system access. I wonder if gw and fs are afraid of nvda 
> and system access taking over? or could it be the different state agencies 
> who are afraid of that happening? I wonder if there's some conspiracy 
> going on keeping the blind community for the most part locked into using 
> gw and fs products? System access reads charts in excel and I only have to 
> pay $10 per month to get access to that or go to satogo.com and use it 
> that way. It just makes me mad that even after I make the agency get me a 
> mac, with windows7, as soon as I need something scripted they won't even 
> look at nvda they instead gravitate to jaws or window-eyes. This has to be 
> changed.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 11 18:26:36 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:26:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
References: <4D2C9D1D.8070401@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C8DE64503764EFFB75C3CF4BDAB0720@Ashley>

I hope they purchase it for you.
Do system access and Window eyes have the speech synthesizer jaws has?  Then 
it would sound the same; think its called eliquonce.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:10 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes


> Hi
>
> I requested of voc rehab to buy me window-eyes. So I'll see what happens 
> plus I asked them to get someone to script it to work with ms-project. 
> Serotek said Project won't be accessible with system access anytime soon, 
> Jaws's scripting language is very rigid. Plus window-eyes also has a 
> payment plan so if voc rehab won't buy it for me I'll just have to break 
> down and buy it myself that's all. And maybe someone at the college can 
> script window-eyes for ms-project 2007 or 2010 or both.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 



From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 18:35:15 2011
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:35:15 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
In-Reply-To: <4C8DE64503764EFFB75C3CF4BDAB0720@Ashley>
References: <4D2C9D1D.8070401@gmail.com>
	<4C8DE64503764EFFB75C3CF4BDAB0720@Ashley>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim4MvY23WYs6snSPkroONTrY-HBX_ARsJ5VCkVZ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Ash,

Window-eyes and System Access both provide you the option of using
eloquence, although I know that with window-eyes, it is not the
default.

Thanks
Nimer J

On 11/01/2011, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I hope they purchase it for you.
> Do system access and Window eyes have the speech synthesizer jaws has?  Then
> it would sound the same; think its called eliquonce.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:10 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I requested of voc rehab to buy me window-eyes. So I'll see what happens
>> plus I asked them to get someone to script it to work with ms-project.
>> Serotek said Project won't be accessible with system access anytime soon,
>> Jaws's scripting language is very rigid. Plus window-eyes also has a
>> payment plan so if voc rehab won't buy it for me I'll just have to break
>> down and buy it myself that's all. And maybe someone at the college can
>> script window-eyes for ms-project 2007 or 2010 or both.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer M. Jaber

This message is addressed for the sole use of the intended recipient.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply
email and destroy this email from computer, server, and anywhere else
where it might be stored. Failure to do so may result in legal action.
I will niot be held responsible for any Action taken as a result of
the content of my correspondence that results in any harm whatsoever.
Furthermore, distribution or dissemination of this email, any part of
this email, or any attachments to this email is prohibited except when
explicitly stated.
registered Linux user number 529141
http://counter.li.org

Phone: (720) (251-4530)
Email: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nimer.jaber


From kgilbride at dralegal.org  Tue Jan 11 19:00:31 2011
From: kgilbride at dralegal.org (Karla Gilbride)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:00:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] skiing?
In-Reply-To: <5F97BEF55A3F4EDEA70FA5C25B36761F@SonyPC>
References: <AANLkTinLQqYaWpzTn2JN3ot5hgfujoSsFeLy44qhURAU@mail.gmail.com>
	<5F97BEF55A3F4EDEA70FA5C25B36761F@SonyPC>
Message-ID: <754D9C7D0111F64FB1C87BD46B8ACD1CE2216D@draexchange.dralegal.com>

I'm also a blind downhill skier. I've mostly skied in Colorado and at
Lake Tahoe. Feel free to contact me off-list with questions at
kgilbride22 at hotmail.com. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 5:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] skiing?

I am blind, and I go down-hill skiing. The places I mostly go are in
Maine and New Hampshire. I will gladly talk with anyone looking for
additional information. My email is kramc11 at gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kgilbride%40dral
egal.org


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 21:27:47 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:27:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for a Washington Seminar female roommate
Message-ID: <AANLkTik+eE2xCfoW+BeXHcymAjPW2aeMYXtrPOi9DzWF@mail.gmail.com>

I am staying with 2 older women during Washington Seminar, and we are
looking for a fourth female roommate. We have reservations Sunday
through Tuesday nights, and if you are only staying for a couple of
those, you are still welcome. Please email me at clb5590 at gmail.com if
you are interested.

-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Tue Jan 11 21:26:46 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:26:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] BLIO READER
In-Reply-To: <B1FF80E1DC554A15A02CFB5CF1A9D960@Ashley>
Message-ID: <auto-000185899424@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Josh,

Some of these issues are just more complicated than it seems.  I am one who believes it is not in our interest to have 
Microsoft provide a full-featured screen reader with Windows at this time, and a number of other people, not all in the 
NFB, feel the same way.  Some aspects are changing, though.  As we see how VoiceOver continues to evolve on the 
apple and as we see how Windows changes, it is not a certainty that Microsoft won't have to do the same thing.  
Before you ask, though, I receive no kickbacks from anybody and I do not work for any assistive technology 
companies.  

If you are going to succeed in the career goals you have, you really need to take some time to learn about how screen 
readers work and what the differences truly are.  You have to learn some about off-screen models, Microsoft Active 
Accessibility, UI Automation, and IAccessible2 which all play a role in determining which screen readers work on 
which applications.  Scripts are also not always the answer.  There are two limiting factors to how scripts can work.  
First, a script can only work with the functions that a screen reader makes available.  Second, a script has to have a 
predictable way to get information from the application being scripted.  Screen readers do not all have the same 
functionality.  What this means is that it is not always possible to make up for accessibility with a script.  I do not 
honestly know if all of the building blocks are there to make MS project completely accessible or not.  I do know that 
Nova, for example, is particularly strong in analyzing graphics, so it makes some sense to me that it might work with 
MS project better than other screen readers.  It is quite possible that Nova has some functionality that none of the 
other screen readers have that might make MS project workable.  When looking at scripts, it is good to consider that it 
is quite possible that paying someone for 20 hours of scripting time may well cost more than purchasing Nova.  

NVDA is particularly strong on the newer technologies that are used by software, but there are some older 
technologies that are still in use that are supported better by JFW and Window-Eyes.  I have not tried the latest 
versions of NVDA or System Access, but when I last tried them a little less than a year ago, neither worked well on 
some of the software that I need to use on the job, and from what I could tell, scripting would not have made them 
work.  There are still cases where the expensive screen readers work where the cheaper ones do not.  

On the one hand, you wonder why other programs are not free like NVDA, and then you later wonder why NVDA only 
has two developers.  The more expensive screen readers are able to afford more developers which is part of what you 
are paying for.  Serotek does not have many developers either, but they have at least one with a lot of tallent.  One 
worries some what might happen to them if that developer were to leave.  

One of the things I worry about is how we could count on Microsoft to make a screen reader they developed work 
well with products that compete with other Microsoft products.  I don't think that they would intentionally not support 
competing products, but it would probably be understandable that they would support their own products first and 
perhaps never get to the competition.  Also, both JFW and Window-Eyes are better programs because of each other.  
There are things that neither program would have done if they had not been afraid that the other would do it.  A full-
featured screen reader built into Windows would make other screen readers quite unnecessary eliminating the 
competition.  

One can ask then, what about Apple?  There are a number of ways that apple functions differently than Microsoft.  
Apple controls more closely the applications written for it so they have more influence as to how applications deal with 
accessibility.  This makes the job of writing a screen reader for the MAC just a little easier.  Even so, we will need to 
keep a watchful eye over time to make sure that the apple screen reader, VoiceOver, doesn't get pushed to the back 
burner.  Apple has done a nice job, but they pretty much had to do something to get government sales, and we'll have 
to see how they do when the good publicity has run its course.  This is not meant to take anything away from Apple, 
but we are still pretty early in the life of VoiceOver to really know how it will work in the long run.  

What about readers?  You are at a disadvantage there because of going to an on-line college and living in a smaller 
town.  However, do you think some of the rest of us were born with a reader?  We had to go out and find them in a 
number of ways.  Your VR might resist paying for readers, but it is something they are authorized to do to help with 
college courses, and it is something colleges also do, although I don't know how that applies to on=-line colleges.  If 
you take the MS Project class, it isn't to learn how to use accessible software, it is to learn what MS Project does and 
probably to learn some of the ins and outs of project management.  If you can get it to work with a screen reader, that 
would indeed be nice, but it is possible to get what you need out of the course with a reader, and those of us here 
could halpe you with ideas on finding readers.  You would have to check into funding, though from your counselor.  
You also need to find out how much of the course actually involves physically using MS Project.  I find it hard to 
believe that the entire course is just in using it, there are likely other materials having to do with project planning that 
you would need to master as well with some of the time.  I think you really have to think about how you can prevent 
this problem with MS Project from keeping you from reaching your goal.  Those of us who are working have to deal all 
the time with materials that are not accessible, and it is just a part of life.  Certainly we need to keep working to 
increase the accessibility of software, but we also can't just wait for everything to be accessible, we have to find ways 
to get the job done in the meantime.

 Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

	On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:24:31 -0500, Ashley  Bramlett wrote:

>Josh,]
>aYour best option is to call the company.
>Not everyone knows about the blio reader.  I guess not everything is 
>accessible because the blind community is a small market and accessibility 
>is not thought of when designing products.

>There are companies who do scripting for products but they cost money for 
>their services.
>Maybe you can work out a payment plan with them. In my area SSB bart group 
>does scripting.
>Having someone pay for it to be scripted such as a lions club would be the 
>best option.  Call around and see what your options are.
>It bothers me when people think the only solution is turning to voc rehab.
>VR is slow and counselors are less likely to give you what you need with 
>budget cuts.
>So look into it yourself.  Call the company; write letters.

>All your messages say "its unfair things are not accessible.  What is taking 
>so long." I wonder too; its not fair but there is not too much we can do 
>about it.
>Things do cost money; so if money is an issue unfortunately your options are 
>also limited.

>I hope things work out though.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:45 AM
>Subject: [nabs-l] BLIO READER


>> Hi
>>
>> So when is the blio reader going to be accessible? Also why are we still 
>> paying $1300 for jaws and similar price for window-eyes when NVDA is 
>> already scriptable? Guys in order for me not to get a waver for my future 
>> microsoft project course I need access to that software. Voc rehab will 
>> have to buy window-eyes, supernova or jaws plus pay who knows how much to 
>> script it to work with project. So why doesn't the nfb organise and get 
>> people with the talent to start writing appModules for NVDA? Or write 
>> serotek and ask them to support more software applications? I don't have 
>> access to readers in rural berks county pennsylvania. Also why is the blio 
>> reader still not accessible? They said it would be accessible in October 
>> and blindbargains says that so far it only works with jaws. Well guys I 
>> have a free open source scriptable screen reader right here and even if I 
>> had the money I wouldn't spend $1295 or so on jaws12. Why should I? nvda 
>> and system access do most of what I want. I tried learning python and 
>> failed. Not everybody can be a programmer just like not everybody can be 
>> an auto-mechanic fixing cars. System access works with mostly everything I 
>> need except for project. So can we all here on the nabs-l list write 
>> serotek asking for ms-project support? I don't really have access to 
>> readers. Neither can I pay for them. I would rather do the work myself, 
>> learn and experience ms-project for myself. and then the question is since 
>> nvda2011.1 will be out soon all 2010.2 scripts or appmodules will be 
>> broken.
>> I want to take this project class if I can. nvda scripting obviously is 
>> not stable yet. I bought serotek's build a bundle system access a few days 
>> ago. I'm a paying customer and I need access to ms-project2007-2010. 
>> Sometimes I get the feeling that money takes precedence over making a 
>> program accessible. Don't you guys see that if serotek added ms-project 
>> support or if nvda got their scripting stable and added it these low cost 
>> screen readers would be even more useful? Oh I can't wait to see the day, 
>> if it even happens that system access and nvda become the leading screen 
>> readers on the market. And when I graduate and when I get to baltimore and 
>> join the nfb I am going to push and push and push for widespread nvda 
>> scripting and widespread serotek product use. As soon as I can I'm getting 
>> docuscanplus and serotek's hoverCam neo or HoverCam mini. Blindbargains 
>> wrote an article in the top stories of 2010. In the article they said the 
>> reason or part of the reason windows narrator did not become a full screen 
>> reader was because microsoft caved into pressure from the nfb and other 
>> organizations so that the $1300 screen reader would remain in the forfront 
>> of the computer accessibility market. my question is why? and is this even 
>> true or are blindbargains' claims false? If I need a waver and have to 
>> replace the project class with another I will but I'd rather not go that 
>> route. I have two screen readers on here with the potential to give me 
>> microsoft project accessibility. Now if ms-project accessibility were 
>> implemented in either software it would benefit many blind people and 
>> increase our job opportunities. Freedom scientific is disappointing. 
>> They're up to jaws12 but they only support project2000? Perhaps someone at 
>> capella could at least script nvda2010.2 to make it work. So far there are 
>> still two developers, only two, working on nvda. why are there not more? 
>> Freedom scientific and gw-micro don't even want to seem to even hear that 
>> nvda exists and is getting better. Serotek on the other hand acknowledges 
>> nvda's existance. If I ever would win the lottery I would spend as much 
>> money as needed hire developers and I would make nvda the leading screen 
>> reader followed by system access. I wonder if gw and fs are afraid of nvda 
>> and system access taking over? or could it be the different state agencies 
>> who are afraid of that happening? I wonder if there's some conspiracy 
>> going on keeping the blind community for the most part locked into using 
>> gw and fs products? System access reads charts in excel and I only have to 
>> pay $10 per month to get access to that or go to satogo.com and use it 
>> that way. It just makes me mad that even after I make the agency get me a 
>> mac, with windows7, as soon as I need something scripted they won't even 
>> look at nvda they instead gravitate to jaws or window-eyes. This has to be 
>> changed.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Wed Jan 12 00:11:24 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:11:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <u3mp1f00R2PutTY053nEJv@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000185902947@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Boy, there are some things in these notes that really make me feel uncomfortable.  I think that a case can be made 
that there needs to be reasonable accommodations in a visual arts class, and I even wonder a little about a school 
that does not provide some options to fulfill and art requirement.  Having said that, though, to say that there is no 
reason for us to learn about visual arts because we are blind makes no sense to me.  To have a course waived 
because it might take some extra work for us without investigating how we might take the course seems hard to me to 
defend.  Comments are made about life being fair.  Well, it isn't fair to many people besides those who are blind.  How 
fair is it that some people have to work so much harder to get the same grades while others learn easily and hardly 
have to study.  How fair is it that some have to work to have spending money while they are in school and may even 
graduate with a debt while others are fortunate enough to get everything from their parents.  Aren't most classes more 
difficult for us than someone with vision but with our equal intelligence?  Part of the reason that we justify getting extra 
help in college by having the rehabilitation system cover some of our expenses is because we do have to work harder.  
Part of the reason for Disabled Students Services offices is to help bridge this kind of gap.  It seems to me that we 
have some responsibility to conform to the requirement of the college we have chosen because we presumably 
picked that college for a reason.  Where does it stop if we start deciding not to take a class at all because it is harder?  

I respectfully admit that I don't know all of the details here, and it would be interesting to hear exactly what the college 
would say about this.  It would be good to know if another art class was suggested as a replacement, too.  But with 
some flexibility, this doesn't seem like an impossible task.  We have to talk about what is reasonable more than what is 
fair or even just.  This could well be a good learning experience for dealing with aspects of one's job after graduation, 
where some of the protections we have as students doesn't apply and we may have to find alternatives to dealing with 
visual charts and such.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:47:23 -0800, humberto wrote:

>High 5!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with this!

>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:08:10 -0700
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver

>>I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.

>>SW,
>>Being blind, this class would present me with additional 
>challenges and
>>extra work not required of other students.
>>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

>>Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise 
>there
>>somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

>>People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

>>MW,
>>Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could 
>have.  How
>>about:

>>Being blind, this class would present me with additional 
>challenges and
>>extra work not required of other students.
>>Being require to complete extra work not required of other 
>students, solely
>>because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
>>Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

>>Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above 
>version.
>>Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two 
>cases are
>>not the same.

>>Being a woman, this class would present me with additional 
>challenges and
>>extra work not required of other students.
>>Being require to complete extra work not required of other 
>students, solely
>>because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
>>Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

>>Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are 
>unfair.  I'm not
>>sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind 
>something like
>>just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are unfair 
>is like
>>saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We certainly 
>do have to
>>do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly because we live in 
>an unjust
>>world, but this doesn't mean we should have to do these things.

>>The point I would make is that a college that requires all 
>students to take
>>very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree 
>has been
>>badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only 
>sighted
>>students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, 
>it's unjust,
>>and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to 
>require a music
>>appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there were a 
>university
>>for the blind, would it make sense to require these highly visual 
>courses?
>>My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be learned from 
>taking
>>courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I agree, but 
>I'm also
>>sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation course, and 
>if this
>>blind university required an art history course, the courses 
>would be
>>designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't 
>be forced
>>to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people 
>who
>>designed the course/curriculum.

>>SW,
>>If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to 
>mean it. The
>>"when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

>>MW,
>>If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, 
>in all its
>>forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to 
>do extra
>>work simply because they are blind.

>>SW,
>>Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip 
>the
>>optional trip?"

>>MW,
>>Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an 
>argument
>>showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have 
>something, but
>>without this, I think the analogy fails.

>>SW,
>>Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things 
>less
>>difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and 
>continue to
>>build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, 
>assure you
>>that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a 
>waiver.

>>MW,
>>It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has 
>asked for
>>things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read 
>Walking Alone and
>>Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the 
>early goals
>>of the organization was to make it so that blind people could 
>earn money in
>>the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is 
>this not a
>>kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they 
>earn a
>>certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This 
>is one
>>example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time 
>a change
>>has been requested that is designed to make things easier for 
>blind people
>>and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as 
>a kind of
>>a waver.

>>I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal 
>treatment,
>>or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This 
>is a
>>simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good 
>reasons for
>>wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that 
>treating her
>>the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then 
>there is
>>nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees 
>that
>>differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the 
>abilities of
>>blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I 
>will hold
>>him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for 
>insisting on
>>her right to be free from discrimination.

>>I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory 
>design of
>>products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming 
>up with
>>clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, 
>all blind
>>people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.

>>Best,

>>Marc


>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com
>>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


>>> Good afternoon,

>>> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the 
>NFB to
>>> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers, 
>paratransit use,
>>> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not 
>accept
>>> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at 
>all. People,
>>> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the 
>impression
>>> that
>>> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues. 
>If you
>>> want
>>> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the 
>programs
>>> we
>>> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And, 
>while we all
>>> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization 
>may or may
>>> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the 
>group. I,
>>> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the 
>NFB's
>>> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be 
>a member
>>> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own 
>opinions. Like
>>> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a 
>Democrat,
>>> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of 
>views? Would
>>> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel 
>about
>>> every
>>> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it 
>wouldn't. So, why
>>> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing 
>how I feel
>>> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.

>>> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should 
>take a
>>> waiver
>>> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should 
>there be.
>>> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our
>>> membership,
>>> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."

>>> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy, 
>counterproductive,
>>> and
>>> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me 
>a case
>>> where
>>> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples 
>to
>>> everything.

>>> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is 
>required for a
>>> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not 
>essential for
>>> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3 
>other credits
>>> somewhere else. The argument goes:

>>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional 
>challenges and
>>> extra work not required of other students.
>>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

>>> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise 
>there
>>> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

>>> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

>>> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind, 
>please
>>> don't
>>> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes 
>me so much
>>> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really 
>needs math
>>> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some 
>additional
>>> English
>>> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe. 
>Better,
>>> no
>>> chance in hell.

>>> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree 
>or
>>> disagree
>>> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating 
>reasonably
>>> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with 
>the line
>>> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from 
>certain
>>> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way, 
>took
>>> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily 
>visual in
>>> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and 
>readers I was
>>> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having 
>any of the
>>> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or 
>examine economic
>>> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what 
>economists
>>> are
>>> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask 
>the right
>>> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from 
>the graph.
>>> So
>>> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when 
>all they are
>>> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of 
>the
>>> underlying concept is what is important.

>>> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was 
>required to
>>> take
>>> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take 
>such a
>>> class,
>>> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But 
>what if I
>>> had been required to take a class on art history or something of 
>the sort.
>>> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to 
>me? Would
>>> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester 
>of
>>> learning
>>> about different styles of painting would I ever have the 
>pleasure of
>>> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would 
>not,
>>> which,
>>> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that 
>isn't fair.
>>> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the 
>progression
>>> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes, 
>hopefully I
>>> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither 
>will any of
>>> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to 
>graduate. So
>>> I
>>> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is 
>life. If we
>>> say
>>> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
>"when it
>>> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

>>> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome 
>art class
>>> or
>>> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student 
>trip abroad,
>>> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do 
>you need
>>> to
>>> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your 
>major, and
>>> besides, it would really present us with some logistical 
>problems."
>>> Wouldn't
>>> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
>optional
>>> trip?"

>>> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.

>>> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just 
>too hard,
>>> then
>>> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what 
>you believe
>>> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up 
>where you
>>> want
>>> to be in life.

>>> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the 
>wall. All
>>> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks 
>because I'm
>>> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things 
>also suck
>>> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or 
>having one
>>> leg;
>>> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!

>>> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things 
>less
>>> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and 
>continue to
>>> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, 
>assure you
>>> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a 
>waiver.

>>> Sean


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.
>lists%40gmail.com


>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>5369%40netzero.net


>_______________________________________________
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From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 00:40:31 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:40:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for a person namedDominic in San Antonio -
	Texas
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimNT4bng7PoJJ__iNLRpChc2H9QKAR=qj+joLSb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimNT4bng7PoJJ__iNLRpChc2H9QKAR=qj+joLSb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DFF3B6C64F804C70935EC9CB8C6E4E45@Rufus>

Creepy, or stockerish?  Can't quite make up my mind...

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of adrijana prokopenko
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:00 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for a person namedDominic in San 
Antonio - Texas

Hello again,

 I am also trying to find another blind person. Another 42-year old
student studying at the university of Texas in San Antonio. His name
is Dominic, but not sure of his sir name. He has  a brown hair and
green eyes and if anyone can help me, feel free to email me back.
Thanks.

 Adrijana

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 00:57:37 2011
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:57:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] waver
In-Reply-To: <auto-000185902947@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000185902947@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <B80BD98EDCF04C22A03D6A5301BF913F@MarcPC>

Hello Steve,

I guess I may have missed it, can you please point me to where anyone said 
that "there is no
reason for us to learn about visual arts because we are blind".  I'm sure I 
didn't say it, but perhaps someone else did.  I would agree that there's 
something not right about that position.

Steve said,
How fair is it that some people have to work so much harder to get the same 
grades while others learn easily and hardly have to study.  How fair is it 
that some have to work to have spending money while they are in school and 
may even graduate with a debt while others are fortunate enough to get 
everything from their parents.

Marc says,
Of course life isn't fair, the question is whether we should simply accept 
this.  There is injustice all over the place, but the fact that it exists, 
and maybe even always will exist, doesn't mean it *ought* to exist.  It 
doesn't mean we shouldn't be pointing it out every chance we get.

Steve said,
It seems to me that we have some responsibility to conform to the 
requirement of the college we have chosen because we presumably picked that 
college for a reason.

Marc says,
Do you agree with the following statement, or can you show me why the two 
situations are not the same?

It seems to me that we have some responsibility to accept the low wages of 
the workhouse we have chosen because we presumably picked that workhouse for 
a reason.

You might say that there were no acceptable alternatives to the workhouses, 
so the workers didn't have real choice.  I think the same could be said of 
universities that force students to work harder simply because they are 
blind.  I doubt there are any universities where this is not the case, so 
there is also no acceptable alternative.

I respect the argument that dealing with these challenges better prepares us 
for difficult situations we may face in the future, employment for example. 
Joe has made similar arguments in past discussions of universal design.  I 
have a problem with it for two reasons:

1, it is an equally strong argument for throwing up roadblocks to make life 
more difficult for blind people, and everyone else for that matter.  After 
all, if the challenges make us better, then up to a point, the more 
challenges, the more skills we will acquire.  Why bother trying to make 
airlines more accessible? Blind people might learn to be more confident and 
assertive if they have to stand up for themselves.  So why should the NFB 
try to make it so we don't have to do this? Why not take away some of the 
disability office support? We learn things as a result of the current level 
of inaccessibility, so a little more inaccessibility will likely lead to us 
learning a little more.  Actually, my guess is that there are many who 
really would advocate for making things harder.  And the argument would 
almost certainly include the phrase: "when I was in university, we didn't 
have..."

2, this argument presupposes that one would not spend that extra time 
developing the same or other skills.  Why assume that if I didn't spend 
extra time dealing with the challenges of inaccessible classes that I 
wouldn't be learning something else? Perhaps something else that would be 
equally useful in an employment situation.  I see no reason to assume that 
dealing with these challenges is the only way to ensure that we will have 
necessary and marketable skills when looking for employment.

Just by way of conclusion, I'll say that, out of the dozen or so 
blindness-related lists I'm on, I think this one has some of the smartest 
participants and the most interesting debates about blindness, which is very 
good.  The bad thing is that they draw me in and take me away from studying 
and working.

Best,

Marc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver


> Boy, there are some things in these notes that really make me feel 
> uncomfortable.  I think that a case can be made
> that there needs to be reasonable accommodations in a visual arts class, 
> and I even wonder a little about a school
> that does not provide some options to fulfill and art requirement.  Having 
> said that, though, to say that there is no
> reason for us to learn about visual arts because we are blind makes no 
> sense to me.  To have a course waived
> because it might take some extra work for us without investigating how we 
> might take the course seems hard to me to
> defend.  Comments are made about life being fair.  Well, it isn't fair to 
> many people besides those who are blind.  How
> fair is it that some people have to work so much harder to get the same 
> grades while others learn easily and hardly
> have to study.  How fair is it that some have to work to have spending 
> money while they are in school and may even
> graduate with a debt while others are fortunate enough to get everything 
> from their parents.  Aren't most classes more
> difficult for us than someone with vision but with our equal intelligence? 
> Part of the reason that we justify getting extra
> help in college by having the rehabilitation system cover some of our 
> expenses is because we do have to work harder.
> Part of the reason for Disabled Students Services offices is to help 
> bridge this kind of gap.  It seems to me that we
> have some responsibility to conform to the requirement of the college we 
> have chosen because we presumably
> picked that college for a reason.  Where does it stop if we start deciding 
> not to take a class at all because it is harder?
>
> I respectfully admit that I don't know all of the details here, and it 
> would be interesting to hear exactly what the college
> would say about this.  It would be good to know if another art class was 
> suggested as a replacement, too.  But with
> some flexibility, this doesn't seem like an impossible task.  We have to 
> talk about what is reasonable more than what is
> fair or even just.  This could well be a good learning experience for 
> dealing with aspects of one's job after graduation,
> where some of the protections we have as students doesn't apply and we may 
> have to find alternatives to dealing with
> visual charts and such.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:47:23 -0800, humberto wrote:
>
>>High 5!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with this!
>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Marc Workman" <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:08:10 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>>>I wasn't going to say anything, but Sean has motivated me.
>
>>>SW,
>>>Being blind, this class would present me with additional
>>challenges and
>>>extra work not required of other students.
>>>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
>>>Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise
>>there
>>>somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
>>>People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
>>>MW,
>>>Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could
>>have.  How
>>>about:
>
>>>Being blind, this class would present me with additional
>>challenges and
>>>extra work not required of other students.
>>>Being require to complete extra work not required of other
>>students, solely
>>>because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
>>>Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>>>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
>>>Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above
>>version.
>>>Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two
>>cases are
>>>not the same.
>
>>>Being a woman, this class would present me with additional
>>challenges and
>>>extra work not required of other students.
>>>Being require to complete extra work not required of other
>>students, solely
>>>because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
>>>Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>>>Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
>>>Besides, of course we shouldn't have to do things that are
>>unfair.  I'm not
>>>sure exactly what you mean by fair/unfair, but I have in mind
>>something like
>>>just/unjust.  Saying we should have to do things that are unfair
>>is like
>>>saying we should have to do things that are unjust.  We certainly
>>do have to
>>>do things that are unfair/unjust, particularly because we live in
>>an unjust
>>>world, but this doesn't mean we should have to do these things.
>
>>>The point I would make is that a college that requires all
>>students to take
>>>very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree
>>has been
>>>badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only
>>sighted
>>>students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair,
>>it's unjust,
>>>and it should be challenged.  Do you think it is common to
>>require a music
>>>appreciation class at Gallaudet University? Imagine there were a
>>university
>>>for the blind, would it make sense to require these highly visual
>>courses?
>>>My guess is you will say yes because a lot can be learned from
>>taking
>>>courses like this, math, biology, art history, etc.  I agree, but
>>I'm also
>>>sure that if Gallaudet required a music appreciation course, and
>>if this
>>>blind university required an art history course, the courses
>>would be
>>>designed in such a way that the deaf and blind students wouldn't
>>be forced
>>>to work harder simply to make up for the ignorance of the people
>>who
>>>designed the course/curriculum.
>
>>>SW,
>>>If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to
>>mean it. The
>>>"when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
>>>MW,
>>>If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it,
>>in all its
>>>forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to
>>do extra
>>>work simply because they are blind.
>
>>>SW,
>>>Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip
>>the
>>>optional trip?"
>
>>>MW,
>>>Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an
>>argument
>>>showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have
>>something, but
>>>without this, I think the analogy fails.
>
>>>SW,
>>>Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things
>>less
>>>difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and
>>continue to
>>>build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however,
>>assure you
>>>that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a
>>waiver.
>
>>>MW,
>>>It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has
>>asked for
>>>things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read
>>Walking Alone and
>>>Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the
>>early goals
>>>of the organization was to make it so that blind people could
>>earn money in
>>>the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is
>>this not a
>>>kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they
>>earn a
>>>certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This
>>is one
>>>example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time
>>a change
>>>has been requested that is designed to make things easier for
>>blind people
>>>and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as
>>a kind of
>>>a waver.
>
>>>I think it is too commonly thought that equality requires equal
>>treatment,
>>>or that equal treatment requires treating people the same.  This
>>is a
>>>simplistic understanding of equality.  If someone has good
>>reasons for
>>>wanting to be treated differently, and I include the fact that
>>treating her
>>>the same would result in discrimination among good reasons, then
>>there is
>>>nothing wrong with treating her differently.  If someone sees
>>that
>>>differential treatment and makes mistaken assumptions about the
>>abilities of
>>>blind people, and then discriminates against me in the future, I
>>will hold
>>>him responsible for making those false assumptions, not her for
>>insisting on
>>>her right to be free from discrimination.
>
>>>I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory
>>design of
>>>products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming
>>up with
>>>clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems,
>>all blind
>>>people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.
>
>>>Best,
>
>>>Marc
>
>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com
>>>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 1:50 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] waver
>
>
>>>> Good afternoon,
>
>>>> I don't necessarily think that it is the purpose of NABS or the
>>NFB to
>>>> prescribe rigid stances on issues like class waivers,
>>paratransit use,
>>>> reduced price tickets for transport, when to accept or not
>>accept
>>>> assistance, etc. In fact, I think that is not our purpose at
>>all. People,
>>>> both inside and outside of the organization, seem to get the
>>impression
>>>> that
>>>> we are some monolith that holds clear positions on such issues.
>>If you
>>>> want
>>>> to know what the NFB thinks, go look at our resolutions and the
>>programs
>>>> we
>>>> implement. Those are the policies of the organization. And,
>>while we all
>>>> work to further them, the policy objectives of the organization
>>may or may
>>>> not be in line with the thinking of any particular member of the
>>group. I,
>>>> for instance, certainly have my points of disagreement with the
>>NFB's
>>>> policies in certain areas, and just because I have chosen to be
>>a member
>>>> does not mean that I have forfeited the right to my own
>>opinions. Like
>>>> anything, you take the good with the bad. If I tell you I'm a
>>Democrat,
>>>> would you automatically assume that I hold a specific set of
>>views? Would
>>>> your knowing that I am a democrat entail your knowing how I feel
>>about
>>>> every
>>>> issue, abortion, economy, education, etc.? Of course it
>>wouldn't. So, why
>>>> does your knowing that I am an NFB member entail your knowing
>>how I feel
>>>> about all issues related to blindness? Obviously, it doesn't.
>
>>>> This said, when it comes to the question of whether one should
>>take a
>>>> waiver
>>>> for a class, there isn't even an official NFB stance. Nor should
>>there be.
>>>> Certainly you are likely to find a prevailing opinion among our
>>>> membership,
>>>> but that doesn't make it "what the NFB thinks."
>
>>>> My personal opinion on the matter is that it is lazy,
>>counterproductive,
>>>> and
>>>> absolutely the wrong thing to do. I'm sure somebody can show me
>>a case
>>>> where
>>>> a waiver was the right decision, but there are counterexamples
>>to
>>>> everything.
>
>>>> Ok, so you don't want to take the visual arts class that is
>>required for a
>>>> BA. It would present certain challenges, and surely is not
>>essential for
>>>> your history major. It would be way easier to just pick up 3
>>other credits
>>>> somewhere else. The argument goes:
>
>>>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional
>>challenges and
>>>> extra work not required of other students.
>>>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
>>>> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise
>>there
>>>> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
>>>> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
>>>> That's about what you'd have to believe to make the "I'm blind,
>>please
>>>> don't
>>>> make me." Argument hold water. Jeez, is it fair that math takes
>>me so much
>>>> longer than my classmates. I'm an English major, and who really
>>needs math
>>>> anyway? Wouldn't it be more fair if I could pick up some
>>additional
>>>> English
>>>> credits to replace that pesky college algebra? More fair, maybe.
>>Better,
>>>> no
>>>> chance in hell.
>
>>>> Universities have these requirements for a reason. You may agree
>>or
>>>> disagree
>>>> with the reason, but there is an objective, namely graduating
>>reasonably
>>>> well-rounded students, behind them. And please do not come with
>>the line
>>>> about how blind students simply won't take anything away from
>>certain
>>>> classes. I, a Political Science and Philosophy major by the way,
>>took
>>>> calculus, statistics, and economics courses which were heavily
>>visual in
>>>> many respects. Through work with classmates, instructors and
>>readers I was
>>>> able to master the concepts at play in each without ever having
>>any of the
>>>> information represented to me visually. So, can I draw or
>>examine economic
>>>> or mathematical graphs? Nope, but I can sure understand what
>>economists
>>>> are
>>>> talking about when they refer to them, and I can absolutely ask
>>the right
>>>> questions of a lay person to glean the information I need from
>>the graph.
>>>> So
>>>> often people get caught up in and intimidated by graphs, when
>>all they are
>>>> are tools to represent data and illustrate concepts. Mastery of
>>the
>>>> underlying concept is what is important.
>
>>>> So what about a visual arts class. Fortunately, I never was
>>required to
>>>> take
>>>> one. I say fortunately, because I have no inclination to take
>>such a
>>>> class,
>>>> and don't think I would enjoy it, though one can never know. But
>>what if I
>>>> had been required to take a class on art history or something of
>>the sort.
>>>> What if I had to have a reader come in and describe paintings to
>>me? Would
>>>> that be a pain in the ass? Yes, probably. In an entire semester
>>of
>>>> learning
>>>> about different styles of painting would I ever have the
>>pleasure of
>>>> enjoying the aesthetic beauty of any of these works? No, I would
>>not,
>>>> which,
>>>> incidentally is just another one of those things in life that
>>isn't fair.
>>>> But, at the end of the class, would I know something about the
>>progression
>>>> of artistic expression that I didn't know at the start? Yes,
>>hopefully I
>>>> would. That is the point. I likely won't enjoy it, but neither
>>will any of
>>>> the other students in the class who were forced to take it to
>>graduate. So
>>>> I
>>>> had to work a little harder to not enjoy something. Such is
>>life. If we
>>>> say
>>>> we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The
>>"when it
>>>> suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
>>>> Imagine you get a waiver and don't have to take that bothersome
>>art class
>>>> or
>>>> science lab, but some time later you wish to go on a student
>>trip abroad,
>>>> and the school doesn't want to allow you to come along. "Why do
>>you need
>>>> to
>>>> come with us to Egypt?" they ask, "It isn't required for your
>>major, and
>>>> besides, it would really present us with some logistical
>>problems."
>>>> Wouldn't
>>>> it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the
>>optional
>>>> trip?"
>
>>>> I'll leave it to you to draw the parallel.
>
>>>> If you think you can compete, compete. If you think it's just
>>too hard,
>>>> then
>>>> either just cash it in now, or take a real close look at what
>>you believe
>>>> and ask yourself whether it is consistent with your ending up
>>where you
>>>> want
>>>> to be in life.
>
>>>> Sorry for the length, but this thread has been driving me up the
>>wall. All
>>>> the bellyaching: "This is hard because I'm blind." "That sucks
>>because I'm
>>>> blind." A lot of things suck about being blind. A lot of things
>>also suck
>>>> about being stupid, disorganized, or lazy; having cancer or
>>having one
>>>> leg;
>>>> or growing old and dying. That. is. life!
>
>>>> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things
>>less
>>>> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and
>>continue to
>>>> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however,
>>assure you
>>>> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a
>>waiver.
>
>>>> Sean
>
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.
>>lists%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>>5369%40netzero.net
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Jan 12 01:46:32 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:46:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Braille Sense, Braille Connect 32/40 Fitted cases
Message-ID: <auto-000185910006@mailfront2.g2host.com>


>From: "Al Eremita" <aleremita at executiveproductsinc.com>
>To: "Al Eremita" <aleremita at executiveproductsinc.com>
>Subject: Braille Sense, Braille Connect 32/40 Fitted cases
>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:55:00 -0800
>
>
>Protect your Unit

. Buy an EPI Case
>
>*New* Braille Sense, Braille Connect 32/40 Fitted Leather Case with Strap!!!
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>[]
>
>Braille Connect 
>32 
>Braille Connect 40                                               Braille Sense
>
>Features: New Softer Leather and E-Rings
>The EPI Braille Connect 32 and 40 cases will not 
>allow your unit to slip out of this case. It is 
>a form fit custom leather case and designed to
>enable the Braille Connect user to easily 
>utilize the note taker. These cases comes with a 
>comfortable shoulder strap that will secure your unit
>while not in use and transit. The face of the 
>unit is covered with a zipper pocket cover which 
>may be opened / closed with magnet closures.
>The zipper pocket cover may be flipped on to the 
>rear and secured under the unit if the user 
>needs to utilize the note taker while walking.
>The large zipper pocket can store your ear buds 
>and other items which provide security and 
>protection. It is designed to enable the user to
>utilize your Braille Connect while the case is 
>on. The case is equipped with a black plastic 
>hooks to provide security, durability and safety.
>EPI continues the tradition of creating 
>functional, durable and beautiful fitted cases. Made in the U.S.A.
>****Shipment will begin on Dec 20, 2010****
>
>•The Braille Connect 32 will not slip out of this case
>
>•Accessibility to data ports, headphone, all keys and other ports.
>
>•The zipper pocket may be used to store date cards, ear buds, etc.
>
>•Keyboard is exposed while the cover is open
>
>•Extremely durable with a superior design.
>
>Order at 
><http://www.executiveproductsinc.com>www.executiveproductsinc.com 
>or call us at 818-833-8080   24/7
>
>We have cases for the following devices,
>
>QX 400/420/440         BX 
>400/420/440         Victor Stream              Book Port+
>
>Braille Icon                 Braille Note 
>Apex       GW BookSense          GW Voice sense
>
>Trekker 
>Breeze            Plextalk 
>NLS/BPH                   Cane Holders
>
>If you have any questions please call us at 
>818-833-8080 or visit our website at
><http://www.executiveproductsinc.com>www.executiveproductsinc.com
>
>
>Executive Products Inc.
>tback_yellow-1
>
>12900 Bradley Ave.
>Sylmar Ca. 91342.
>Fax: 818-833-5798
>Office: 818-833-8080
>Mobile: 818-723-8444
><http://www.executiveproductsinc.com/>www.ExecutiveProductsinc.com
>
>
>
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From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 18:31:38 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:31:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
Message-ID: <4D2DF38A.6020800@gmail.com>

Hi

system access and jaws and window-eyes all have the same eloquence 
synthesizer. and if voc rehab won't buy window-eyes for me then I'll buy 
it myself using their payment plan.

Josh


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 19:10:27 2011
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:10:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
In-Reply-To: <4D2DF38A.6020800@gmail.com>
References: <4D2DF38A.6020800@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimrNWgRkt+E1xJNasi+sos+bSkqprs+5atNgki8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Josh,

If you are capable and able to buy it on your own which you are saying
you are, then why wait for Voc Rehab and take up their funds to do it?

Thanks
Nimer J

On 12/01/2011, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> system access and jaws and window-eyes all have the same eloquence
> synthesizer. and if voc rehab won't buy window-eyes for me then I'll buy
> it myself using their payment plan.
>
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer M. Jaber

This message is addressed for the sole use of the intended recipient.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me via reply
email and destroy this email from computer, server, and anywhere else
where it might be stored. Failure to do so may result in legal action.
I will niot be held responsible for any Action taken as a result of
the content of my correspondence that results in any harm whatsoever.
Furthermore, distribution or dissemination of this email, any part of
this email, or any attachments to this email is prohibited except when
explicitly stated.
registered Linux user number 529141
http://counter.li.org

Phone: (720) (251-4530)
Email: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nimer.jaber


From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 20:46:52 2011
From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:46:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online courses
Message-ID: <AANLkTimU9vcwd3BvtBYG-=2rvvAy61jjR7Q7UnTxejWY@mail.gmail.com>

How would a blind person take a science course online? I know the lab part
might be difficult to take online. I was thinking about taking online
courses. I have never done an online course. I can get through the english
history jaws has the foreign language language voices. Any feedback would be
cool.

From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 20:54:52 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:54:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] online courses
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimU9vcwd3BvtBYG-=2rvvAy61jjR7Q7UnTxejWY@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimU9vcwd3BvtBYG-=2rvvAy61jjR7Q7UnTxejWY@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=WRcbV0iWsK6=AM0QkNr5ff6V9Uji1Pz5Dn719@mail.gmail.com>

I can't speak about Science, but I can definitely comment on online
courses in both History and Enlish.  I must caution you though it is
all on you to keep up with the work and if you don't you loose credit.
 For example, for my History course I did online I had to post every
Sunday, Monday and Thursday.  I forgot to post some days and one full
posting session I forgot.  It is up to the person in determining
whether or not to take online courses.  I will give you another
example of what I mean.  For the course I describe I received an "F"
and for the same course I did in a classroom I got a "B-".

Good luck

On 1/12/11, Albert Yoo <albert.k.yoo at gmail.com> wrote:
> How would a blind person take a science course online? I know the lab part
> might be difficult to take online. I was thinking about taking online
> courses. I have never done an online course. I can get through the english
> history jaws has the foreign language language voices. Any feedback would be
> cool.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From davidb521 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 05:19:20 2011
From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:19:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Blind broadcast
Message-ID: <4d2e8b6a.0a48960a.49d1.54ae@mx.google.com>

Hi,
A friend sent me the link below which will direct you to a documentary page
of the BBC about a blind broadcaster who travels throuout two cities: San
Francisco and Istanbul. If you decide to watch the broadcasts, I'd be
interested to know your thoughts and observations regarding the methods
which he employed in his travels. For someone who has most likely received
little or no training, he seems to be quite successful.

David
-----Original Message-----
From: Artis Ford [mailto:artisf at ext.msstate.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:24 PM
To: David Bouchard
Subject: Blind broadcast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/2011/01/110105_blind_man_roa
ms_the_globe.shtml

Check out the two audio stories on this blind broadcaster .



-- 
Artis Ford, 662-325-1720
Mississippi State University
Office of Agricultural Communications
Bost Extension Ctr, Rm 110
Mississippi State, MS  39762




From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 05:47:40 2011
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:47:40 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Waver
In-Reply-To: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <002001cbb2e5$650f7d80$2f2e7880$@com>

Marc,

Here are some thoughts. I have taken your tack and entered comments in the
text as if it were a running dialogue.

SW,
Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.

Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there 
somewhere, no? Maybe something like:

People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.

MW,
Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have.  How 
about:

Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, solely 
because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

SW reply:
In fact, I'm sure I didn't present the argument as strongly as it might have
been presented, but, cut me some slack here, I wrote quickly and didn't know
Professor Workman would be coming through with his fine-toothed comb.
Seriously though, your formulation is more clear, though it still relies on
the commonsense proposition that we should not have to do things that are
unfair/unjust (I use the two interchangeably). We shouldn't have to do
things that are discriminatory, because those things are unfair, and we
shouldn't have to do unfair things.

MW,
Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above version. 
Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases are 
not the same.

Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges and 
extra work not required of other students.
Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, solely 
because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.

SW reply,
Actually, I agree with the argument in both cases. I shouldn't have to take
classes that require more work of me solely because I am blind. Nor should a
woman have to take a class, God knows what it might be, that would require
more work of her solely because she is a woman. I recognize that my initial
post reads as if I take issue with the claim that "people shouldn't have to
do things that are unfair," or the parallel from your reformulation,
"students shouldn't have to take classes that are discriminatory," but that
is not the case. In an ideal world, such injustices would not exist. What I
take issue with is people making the jump from "I shouldn't have to" to "I
am right to not." The mere fact that, in a perfectly just world, one would
not have to do something, in no way means that, in the world as it actually
exists, doing that thing is not the right thing to do. I think that the path
toward justice in the classroom lies, in particular, in making information,
which is frequently presented in a visual fashion, more readily available to
blind students, and, in general, in teaching courses with an eye toward
reaching as many students as possible, and not in granting students waivers
or exemptions. I would suspect that you agree with me here, as you have
basically said as much.

One other question you can get at by thinking about other parallel arguments
is this: What if you take characteristics like sex or visual acuity out, and
substitute instead characteristics that have more to do with academic
success. Should dyslexics, in a just world, not be forced to take lit
classes? Should those who struggle with math, in an ideal world, be exempt
from math courses? It seems obvious to me that the answer is no, so what is
the difference? Is calculus not discriminatory to somebody who lacks the
facility to deal with numbers? Is there something more fundamental to the
education of a person about math than art?

MW,
The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to take 
very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has been 
badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only sighted 
students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's unjust,

and it should be challenged.

SW reply,
I largely agree with you. What should be challenged is the way the
information is presented, not what information is required to be learned. As
Arielle has rightly pointed out, math, science, statistics, economics, and
many other courses in which material is traditionally presented visually are
by no means inherently visual. We should absolutely fight for better access,
but in the time being, while access is still what it is, we have to choose
between two less than perfect options. 1) Skip the class, miss out on the
content, which obviously the university felt important, and send the message
that we cannot compete, or 2) deal with the injustice of having to do extra
work compared with that which we would have to do if we were sighted
versions of ourselves. I'll pick number 2 any day.



SW,
If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The 
"when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.

MW,
If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all its 
forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do extra 
work simply because they are blind.

SW reply:
Yes, we do have to fight it, but while we are fighting it, we have to get by
the best we can. As I say, neither skipping the class nor taking it and
doing extra work are ideal, but unless we wish to suspend our academic
careers until the battle is won, that is the choice we are left with, and
you know where I come down.

SW,
Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the 
optional trip?"

MW,
Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an argument 
showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have something, but 
without this, I think the analogy fails.

SW reply:
That was kind of tongue in cheek. Clearly there is no argument from justice
or fairness on the part of the school here. What I was driving at was the
fact that, to a given individual, what is fair or just often conveniently
coincides with what would be best for them. Also, as I'm sure you recognize,
an argument's not being a good one rarely stops people from making it, and
often with considerable effect. Surely if I had a class waved, and later
wanted to do something that my school didn't want to let me do, the waiver
would come back to bite, or at least attempt to bite, me in the ass.


SW,
Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less 
difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to 
build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you 
that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.

MW,
It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for 
things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking Alone and

Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early goals

of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn money in 
the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this not a 
kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn a 
certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is one 
example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a change 
has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind people 
and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a kind of 
a waver.

SW reply:
When I say we haven't made progress by "requesting a waiver" I, of course,
do not mean it literally. Taken literally, it doesn't make much sense at
all. Read "requesting a waiver" as "taking the easy way out," which taking a
waiver certainly is. 

MW,
I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of 
products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with 
clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all blind 
people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.

SW reply:
Thinking about the ought and knowing the ideal are very useful, and, in
fact, necessary if one wants to change things for the better, but it is
dangerous to fixate on how things ought to be to the point where one becomes
unwilling to deal with what actually is. Of course, full access and
universal design are laudable goals. I share them with you. I agree that
time and energy should be devoted to changing the system rather than
exclusively to figuring out how to get along within the broken one we have,
but at the same time, if we don't figure out how to get along in the world
we inhabit, we will never amass the power to change it. Both approaches are
necessary.

Thanks for the interesting thoughts and forcing me to clarify my own
thinking.

Take care,

Sean



From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 06:06:51 2011
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 00:06:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Waver
In-Reply-To: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <003101cbb2e8$12ec8b80$38c5a280$@com>

Joe,

I agree with you 100% that we would be well served to have something to
clearly and concisely lay out NFB's policy positions in one place. Frankly,
I wish something like that existed and that it didn't have to come to people
suggesting that NABS compile it.

I just don't feel that the class waiver question, like the paratransit
question or any number of others which I view as individual questions,
should be included in NFB policy. NFB should advocate for access to course
materials, but not tell individuals whether or not they should take waivers.
NFB can choose to advocate for paratransit service, or not, but I don't
think we need an organizational position on whether or not to take it where
it exists. How people choose to interpret the philosophical underpinnings of
the NFB, and how people choose to incorporate that interpretation in their
own lives is, as far as I'm concerned, their own business. That doesn't mean
that I might not have my own opinion based on my own philosophical position,
but I'll keep it to myself, unless, of course, somebody asks.

All this said, I definitely share your frustration with the frequent
mischaracterization or oversimplification of NFB policies, especially among
those you enumerated.

And, finally, come on now Joe! Whoever said I was a Democrat? We all know
that was simply a hypothetical example!

Take care,

Sean



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 06:17:22 2011
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 23:17:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Waver
In-Reply-To: <003101cbb2e8$12ec8b80$38c5a280$@com>
References: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<003101cbb2e8$12ec8b80$38c5a280$@com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik2vcY+7g9OVqQBf9STPbPAypZfOMfsXPEO2PZd@mail.gmail.com>

Sean shoots...and he scores!  Very well said.

On 1/12/11, Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> I agree with you 100% that we would be well served to have something to
> clearly and concisely lay out NFB's policy positions in one place. Frankly,
> I wish something like that existed and that it didn't have to come to people
> suggesting that NABS compile it.
>
> I just don't feel that the class waiver question, like the paratransit
> question or any number of others which I view as individual questions,
> should be included in NFB policy. NFB should advocate for access to course
> materials, but not tell individuals whether or not they should take waivers.
> NFB can choose to advocate for paratransit service, or not, but I don't
> think we need an organizational position on whether or not to take it where
> it exists. How people choose to interpret the philosophical underpinnings of
> the NFB, and how people choose to incorporate that interpretation in their
> own lives is, as far as I'm concerned, their own business. That doesn't mean
> that I might not have my own opinion based on my own philosophical position,
> but I'll keep it to myself, unless, of course, somebody asks.
>
> All this said, I definitely share your frustration with the frequent
> mischaracterization or oversimplification of NFB policies, especially among
> those you enumerated.
>
> And, finally, come on now Joe! Whoever said I was a Democrat? We all know
> that was simply a hypothetical example!
>
> Take care,
>
> Sean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 09:02:22 2011
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 02:02:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Waver
In-Reply-To: <002001cbb2e5$650f7d80$2f2e7880$@com>
References: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<002001cbb2e5$650f7d80$2f2e7880$@com>
Message-ID: <25CF34BDA26243298CB28133477B8418@MarcPC>

Hi Sean,

You make some very persuasive points.  I hesitate to continue the debate, 
and I suspect some would prefer that I don't, but I think it's such an 
interesting topic with wider implications about how we see ourselves and 
other blind people, so I will make a few points.

SW,
What I take issue with is people making the jump from "I shouldn't have to" 
to "I am right to not." The mere fact that, in a perfectly just world, one 
would not have to do something, in no way means that, in the world as it 
actually exists, doing that thing is not the right thing to do.

MW,
I think this is the most significant point you make.  I don't really have a 
response.  That may have been what I was doing.  At least, I need to give 
this more thought.  The point, though, that I initially wanted to make comes 
in response to something you say later.

SW,
Read "requesting a waiver" as "taking the easy way out," which taking a 
waiver certainly is.

MW,
I don't know if this is just a throw away statement, or if you actually 
believe it.  I think you do believe it, and this is really the attitude that 
I think is wrong.  Taking a waver, or perhaps fighting for the right to 
receive a waver, which is often what is required, is not necessarily the 
easy way out.  It might be much easier to simply go along with the system as 
it stands.  Hire the readers, or have the disability office hire the readers 
for you, spend more time trying to understand the visually presented 
concepts, walk away with a mediocre grade, do less well than you otherwise 
would have done in your other classes, and take pride in the fact that you 
didn't take a waver.  Or, stand up to your department/faculty, convince 
those in charge that there are other ways you can demonstrate the bredth of 
knowledge they are looking for, ways that will not require you to deal as 
much with inaccessible materials, spend more time learning about the topics 
that interest you and that you plan to work on later in life, get better 
grades in all your classes, and take pride in the fact that you stood up for 
yourself and nagotiated an alternative arrangement that suited everyone 
better.  How is this taking the easy way out? The attitude I take issue with 
is that a waver necessarily, or certainly, equals taking the easy way out. 
You might think my reconstruction is farfetched, but I really don't think it 
is.  And I think it is important to be less sweeping in our condemnation of 
other's decisions.

If I can convince you or others that fighting for a waver is not necessarily 
taking the easy way out, and I don't mean that there are farfetched 
scenarios in which it is acceptable, but that it is a legitimate option that 
can be equally demanding, then that's all I'm aiming to do.  Just a little 
less total rejection of the waver as an acceptable, and sometimes 
appropriate, option.

SW,
if we don't figure out how to get along in the world we inhabit, we will 
never amass the power to change it.

MW,
There is something lofty about this statement.  It seems obviously true at 
first, but where's the justification, where's the argument to back it up. 
After some reflection, it's really not all that obvious to me.  How does 
learning how to get along as a slave bring one any closer to freedom? It's 
also worth noting that finding an alternative way of completing a course 
requirement is equally a means of getting along in the world we inhabit. 
And this brings me to my last point.

SW,
I think that the path toward justice in the classroom lies, in particular, 
in making information, which is frequently presented in a visual fashion, 
more readily available to blind students, and, in general, in teaching 
courses with an eye toward reaching as many students as possible, and not in 
granting students waivers or exemptions.

MW,
I admit that a waver might not do much to change the way classes are taught. 
Since my main point is that wavers are not necessarily the easier option, 
and that there are good reasons for pursuing them, I'm not troubled by that 
admission.  But it isn't clear to me that taking the class, hiring readers, 
relying on classmates, spending more time and effort on a single class, and 
generally placing the burden on the student rather than the professor and 
the university, where it belongs, will do much to change the system either. 
In other words, changing the way the classes are taught is independent of 
taking a waver or not.  The course might remain as inaccessible despite the 
student taking a waver, maybe even because the student went along with the 
inaccessible class, rather than arguing that it is inaccessible and should 
not be required.

There are other things you say that I'm unsure of or disagree with, but I 
think the most important points have been covered.

As someone who took philosophy, you should be used to the fine-tooth-comb 
treatment, but I apologize if it has been used to pick nits.  Not my 
intention, though too often my habit.

Regards,

Marc
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waver


> Marc,
>
> Here are some thoughts. I have taken your tack and entered comments in the
> text as if it were a running dialogue.
>
> SW,
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>
> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>
> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>
> MW,
> Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have.  How
> about:
>
> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, 
> solely
> because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
> SW reply:
> In fact, I'm sure I didn't present the argument as strongly as it might 
> have
> been presented, but, cut me some slack here, I wrote quickly and didn't 
> know
> Professor Workman would be coming through with his fine-toothed comb.
> Seriously though, your formulation is more clear, though it still relies 
> on
> the commonsense proposition that we should not have to do things that are
> unfair/unjust (I use the two interchangeably). We shouldn't have to do
> things that are discriminatory, because those things are unfair, and we
> shouldn't have to do unfair things.
>
> MW,
> Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above version.
> Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases are
> not the same.
>
> Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges and
> extra work not required of other students.
> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students, 
> solely
> because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>
> SW reply,
> Actually, I agree with the argument in both cases. I shouldn't have to 
> take
> classes that require more work of me solely because I am blind. Nor should 
> a
> woman have to take a class, God knows what it might be, that would require
> more work of her solely because she is a woman. I recognize that my 
> initial
> post reads as if I take issue with the claim that "people shouldn't have 
> to
> do things that are unfair," or the parallel from your reformulation,
> "students shouldn't have to take classes that are discriminatory," but 
> that
> is not the case. In an ideal world, such injustices would not exist. What 
> I
> take issue with is people making the jump from "I shouldn't have to" to "I
> am right to not." The mere fact that, in a perfectly just world, one would
> not have to do something, in no way means that, in the world as it 
> actually
> exists, doing that thing is not the right thing to do. I think that the 
> path
> toward justice in the classroom lies, in particular, in making 
> information,
> which is frequently presented in a visual fashion, more readily available 
> to
> blind students, and, in general, in teaching courses with an eye toward
> reaching as many students as possible, and not in granting students 
> waivers
> or exemptions. I would suspect that you agree with me here, as you have
> basically said as much.
>
> One other question you can get at by thinking about other parallel 
> arguments
> is this: What if you take characteristics like sex or visual acuity out, 
> and
> substitute instead characteristics that have more to do with academic
> success. Should dyslexics, in a just world, not be forced to take lit
> classes? Should those who struggle with math, in an ideal world, be exempt
> from math courses? It seems obvious to me that the answer is no, so what 
> is
> the difference? Is calculus not discriminatory to somebody who lacks the
> facility to deal with numbers? Is there something more fundamental to the
> education of a person about math than art?
>
> MW,
> The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to 
> take
> very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has been
> badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only sighted
> students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's 
> unjust,
>
> and it should be challenged.
>
> SW reply,
> I largely agree with you. What should be challenged is the way the
> information is presented, not what information is required to be learned. 
> As
> Arielle has rightly pointed out, math, science, statistics, economics, and
> many other courses in which material is traditionally presented visually 
> are
> by no means inherently visual. We should absolutely fight for better 
> access,
> but in the time being, while access is still what it is, we have to choose
> between two less than perfect options. 1) Skip the class, miss out on the
> content, which obviously the university felt important, and send the 
> message
> that we cannot compete, or 2) deal with the injustice of having to do 
> extra
> work compared with that which we would have to do if we were sighted
> versions of ourselves. I'll pick number 2 any day.
>
>
>
> SW,
> If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The
> "when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>
> MW,
> If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all its
> forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do extra
> work simply because they are blind.
>
> SW reply:
> Yes, we do have to fight it, but while we are fighting it, we have to get 
> by
> the best we can. As I say, neither skipping the class nor taking it and
> doing extra work are ideal, but unless we wish to suspend our academic
> careers until the battle is won, that is the choice we are left with, and
> you know where I come down.
>
> SW,
> Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the
> optional trip?"
>
> MW,
> Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an argument
> showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have something, 
> but
> without this, I think the analogy fails.
>
> SW reply:
> That was kind of tongue in cheek. Clearly there is no argument from 
> justice
> or fairness on the part of the school here. What I was driving at was the
> fact that, to a given individual, what is fair or just often conveniently
> coincides with what would be best for them. Also, as I'm sure you 
> recognize,
> an argument's not being a good one rarely stops people from making it, and
> often with considerable effect. Surely if I had a class waved, and later
> wanted to do something that my school didn't want to let me do, the waiver
> would come back to bite, or at least attempt to bite, me in the ass.
>
>
> SW,
> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you
> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>
> MW,
> It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for
> things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking Alone 
> and
>
> Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early 
> goals
>
> of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn money 
> in
> the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this not a
> kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn a
> certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is one
> example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a change
> has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind people
> and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a kind 
> of
> a waver.
>
> SW reply:
> When I say we haven't made progress by "requesting a waiver" I, of course,
> do not mean it literally. Taken literally, it doesn't make much sense at
> all. Read "requesting a waiver" as "taking the easy way out," which taking 
> a
> waiver certainly is.
>
> MW,
> I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of
> products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with
> clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all 
> blind
> people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.
>
> SW reply:
> Thinking about the ought and knowing the ideal are very useful, and, in
> fact, necessary if one wants to change things for the better, but it is
> dangerous to fixate on how things ought to be to the point where one 
> becomes
> unwilling to deal with what actually is. Of course, full access and
> universal design are laudable goals. I share them with you. I agree that
> time and energy should be devoted to changing the system rather than
> exclusively to figuring out how to get along within the broken one we 
> have,
> but at the same time, if we don't figure out how to get along in the world
> we inhabit, we will never amass the power to change it. Both approaches 
> are
> necessary.
>
> Thanks for the interesting thoughts and forcing me to clarify my own
> thinking.
>
> Take care,
>
> Sean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com 



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 17:05:04 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:05:04 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <AANLkTikxdSf16gDbaq2nA19EC95w8=AeHi9XzCStdPqR@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all,
  The below announcement is regarding a conference call sponsored by
the National Association of Blind Students (NABS), a division of the
national federation of the blind. This call is going to cover
scholarships! the announcement will be atatched as well.
  Please circulate widely so we can promote scholarship oppertunities
to as many  blind students as we are able!
  REgards,
  Darian

  Hello all,

As everyone prepares to tackle a new year, getting squared away for
another semester of lost sleep due to endless studying in this cycle
we know so well
by now, your beloved membership committee has been hard at work
putting together another outstanding conference call for you. This one
should definitely
perk your ears because it’s all about scholarships. We will have
Patty Chang from the  NFB scholarship committee, Mark Lucas from
USABA, and RFB&D’s own Melissa Greenwald
will join us as well.
Be sure to call in to get your hands on some exciting and useful info.

Who: The National Association of Blind Students Membership Committee

What: Conference call about scholarships

When: Sunday January 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET

Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by the passcode 257963

Why: Because who couldn’t use more money for books, food, and survival?

As always,we hope to see you all there , but if you can’t make it, we
will be streaming and recording the call for your use at a future
date. Looking forward
to a wonderful conversation with all of you. See you there!
 Nabs Membership committee.






-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin
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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 17:19:27 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:19:27 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs presents: all about scholarships
Message-ID: <AANLkTikdDi7xxHh6U=Ey4vfgqhKwf1mmo+-u8YKgnNAT@mail.gmail.com>

Appoligies for not properly labling  via subject line- don't know what
I was thinking! :)

 Greetings all, Re-sending  minus the  mistake.
   The below announcement is regarding a conference call sponsored by
 the National Association of Blind Students (NABS), a division of the
 national federation of the blind. This call is going to cover
 scholarships! the announcement will be atatched as well.
   Please circulate widely so we can promote scholarship oppertunities
 to as many  blind students as we are able!
   REgards,
   Darian

   Hello all,

 As everyone prepares to tackle a new year, getting squared away for
 another semester of lost sleep due to endless studying in this cycle
 we know so well
 by now, your beloved membership committee has been hard at work
 putting together another outstanding conference call for you. This one
 should definitely
 perk your ears because it’s all about scholarships. We will have
 Patty Chang from the  NFB scholarship committee, Mark Lucas from
 USABA, and RFB&D’s own Melissa Greenwald
 will join us as well.
 Be sure to call in to get your hands on some exciting and useful info.

 Who: The National Association of Blind Students Membership Committee

 What: Conference call about scholarships

 When: Sunday January 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET

 Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by the passcode 257963

 Why: Because who couldn’t use more money for books, food, and survival?

 As always,we hope to see you all there , but if you can’t make it, we
 will be streaming and recording the call for your use at a future
 date. Looking forward
 to a wonderful conversation with all of you. See you there!
  Nabs Membership committee.





-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin


From agrima at nbp.org  Thu Jan 13 17:55:46 2011
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:55:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Gift Ideas for Valentine's Day - and we'll gift-wrap for
	free!
Message-ID: <002101cbb34b$1ae5fbb0$50b1f310$@org>

Looking for a Valentine's Day gift?

National Braille Press has Valentine gift ideas for classmates, friends,
colleagues, or that someone special. We've got braille jewelry, magnets,
books, and of course our Valentines cards - and if you order a gift before
February 4th, we'll gift-wrap it for you for free! 

We encourage telephone orders. You can order online, but you'll need to call
or email us for the wrapping request. 

Check out our Valentine Gift Ideas at:
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/valentinesale.html

And don't forget - in honor of Louis Braille's birthday this month, order
anything before February 4th and you'll be automatically entered to win a
basket of Louis goodies! Order by phone, fax, mail, or website, and you
could win!


******
To order any books, send payment to:
NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302
Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520.
Or order any of our books online at 
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html .




From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 18:26:59 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:26:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
Message-ID: <4D2F43F3.2030604@gmail.com>

Hi

I need voc rehab's funds anyway to pay for the scripting of microsoft 
project.



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Thu Jan 13 19:09:56 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:09:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] window-eyes
In-Reply-To: <4D2F43F3.2030604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000023953529@mailback2.g2host.com>

Josh,

Did you subscribe to the PROGRAM-L list to ask about MS Project?  I think people there would be helpful in explaining what might be done with a script.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:26:59 -0500, Josh Kennedy wrote:

>Hi

>I need voc rehab's funds anyway to pay for the scripting of microsoft 
>project.


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From tinadt at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan 13 19:00:56 2011
From: tinadt at sbcglobal.net (Tina Thomas)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:00:56 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] punctuations signs in Braille
Message-ID: <003001cbb354$35fd5250$a1f7f6f0$@net>

Hello- Does anyone   know the Braille dots for open and close quotation
marks. 
Thanks. 
Tina    



From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Thu Jan 13 19:58:22 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:58:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] punctuations signs in Braille
In-Reply-To: <003001cbb354$35fd5250$a1f7f6f0$@net>
References: <003001cbb354$35fd5250$a1f7f6f0$@net>
Message-ID: <F11125E6CE9044BEA2AFA16428DE3B56@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Open quotes is dots 236; closed quotations is 356. Anita
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tina Thomas" <tinadt at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 2:00 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] punctuations signs in Braille


> Hello- Does anyone   know the Braille dots for open and close quotation
> marks.
> Thanks.
> Tina
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From trillian551 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 19:58:38 2011
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:58:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] punctuations signs in Braille
In-Reply-To: <003001cbb354$35fd5250$a1f7f6f0$@net>
References: <003001cbb354$35fd5250$a1f7f6f0$@net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=aWUVe9A+W82jVfx6AYNFpdDNAhMoEj25BBf9k@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Open quote is 2 3 6 and closed is 5 6 3

On 1/13/11, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello- Does anyone   know the Braille dots for open and close quotation
> marks.
> Thanks.
> Tina
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 00:19:26 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:19:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
Message-ID: <A49D83D92F334613AF9548B8FE54C2E2@Rufus>

The Sierra Group is assisting Barclays Bank as they recruit candidates with
disabilities and veterans for their well paying summer internships! Deadline
is short, please send your resumes
College students with disabilities, including VETERANS, take note, Barclays
Capital, a leading global investment bank, has a culture that emphasizes
teamwork and collaboration. LEARN while you EARN. Apply today for a 10 week,
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week, PAID Internships is Jan. 14th so apply
NOW.www.barcap.com/expectexcellence to apply directly.



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 01:07:35 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:07:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Waver
In-Reply-To: <25CF34BDA26243298CB28133477B8418@MarcPC>
References: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<002001cbb2e5$650f7d80$2f2e7880$@com>
	<25CF34BDA26243298CB28133477B8418@MarcPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimqqr0e0AeXryF+UgV8uPa8kDfbs1uC1JQ9m19G@mail.gmail.com>

Mark and all,

What I fail to understand is how fighting for a waiver is an effective
means of fighting discrimination. To me, getting a waiver sounds like
a very passive means of self-defense which does nothing to change the
system. If you ask to have a class waived, and the waiver is granted,
you and your concerns are out of the minds of the university
administration. They don't have to worry about making courses
accessible if all the disabled people can just opt out of them. On the
other hand, insisting on taking the course, while also getting on the
backs of those in authority about making the class accessible, is an
active means of fighting injustice, which in the end will benefit the
entire community and not just yourself. There's also the issue that
discrimination complaints, in the real world, are not always heard or
processed to our satisfaction. So why not complain, but while waiting
for the complaint to prompt action, move along in the class and handle
the accommodations necessary to be successful?

Respectfully,
Arielle

On 1/13/11, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sean,
>
> You make some very persuasive points.  I hesitate to continue the debate,
> and I suspect some would prefer that I don't, but I think it's such an
> interesting topic with wider implications about how we see ourselves and
> other blind people, so I will make a few points.
>
> SW,
> What I take issue with is people making the jump from "I shouldn't have to"
> to "I am right to not." The mere fact that, in a perfectly just world, one
> would not have to do something, in no way means that, in the world as it
> actually exists, doing that thing is not the right thing to do.
>
> MW,
> I think this is the most significant point you make.  I don't really have a
> response.  That may have been what I was doing.  At least, I need to give
> this more thought.  The point, though, that I initially wanted to make comes
> in response to something you say later.
>
> SW,
> Read "requesting a waiver" as "taking the easy way out," which taking a
> waiver certainly is.
>
> MW,
> I don't know if this is just a throw away statement, or if you actually
> believe it.  I think you do believe it, and this is really the attitude that
> I think is wrong.  Taking a waver, or perhaps fighting for the right to
> receive a waver, which is often what is required, is not necessarily the
> easy way out.  It might be much easier to simply go along with the system as
> it stands.  Hire the readers, or have the disability office hire the readers
> for you, spend more time trying to understand the visually presented
> concepts, walk away with a mediocre grade, do less well than you otherwise
> would have done in your other classes, and take pride in the fact that you
> didn't take a waver.  Or, stand up to your department/faculty, convince
> those in charge that there are other ways you can demonstrate the bredth of
> knowledge they are looking for, ways that will not require you to deal as
> much with inaccessible materials, spend more time learning about the topics
> that interest you and that you plan to work on later in life, get better
> grades in all your classes, and take pride in the fact that you stood up for
> yourself and nagotiated an alternative arrangement that suited everyone
> better.  How is this taking the easy way out? The attitude I take issue with
> is that a waver necessarily, or certainly, equals taking the easy way out.
> You might think my reconstruction is farfetched, but I really don't think it
> is.  And I think it is important to be less sweeping in our condemnation of
> other's decisions.
>
> If I can convince you or others that fighting for a waver is not necessarily
> taking the easy way out, and I don't mean that there are farfetched
> scenarios in which it is acceptable, but that it is a legitimate option that
> can be equally demanding, then that's all I'm aiming to do.  Just a little
> less total rejection of the waver as an acceptable, and sometimes
> appropriate, option.
>
> SW,
> if we don't figure out how to get along in the world we inhabit, we will
> never amass the power to change it.
>
> MW,
> There is something lofty about this statement.  It seems obviously true at
> first, but where's the justification, where's the argument to back it up.
> After some reflection, it's really not all that obvious to me.  How does
> learning how to get along as a slave bring one any closer to freedom? It's
> also worth noting that finding an alternative way of completing a course
> requirement is equally a means of getting along in the world we inhabit.
> And this brings me to my last point.
>
> SW,
> I think that the path toward justice in the classroom lies, in particular,
> in making information, which is frequently presented in a visual fashion,
> more readily available to blind students, and, in general, in teaching
> courses with an eye toward reaching as many students as possible, and not in
> granting students waivers or exemptions.
>
> MW,
> I admit that a waver might not do much to change the way classes are taught.
> Since my main point is that wavers are not necessarily the easier option,
> and that there are good reasons for pursuing them, I'm not troubled by that
> admission.  But it isn't clear to me that taking the class, hiring readers,
> relying on classmates, spending more time and effort on a single class, and
> generally placing the burden on the student rather than the professor and
> the university, where it belongs, will do much to change the system either.
> In other words, changing the way the classes are taught is independent of
> taking a waver or not.  The course might remain as inaccessible despite the
> student taking a waver, maybe even because the student went along with the
> inaccessible class, rather than arguing that it is inaccessible and should
> not be required.
>
> There are other things you say that I'm unsure of or disagree with, but I
> think the most important points have been covered.
>
> As someone who took philosophy, you should be used to the fine-tooth-comb
> treatment, but I apologize if it has been used to pick nits.  Not my
> intention, though too often my habit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Marc
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waver
>
>
>> Marc,
>>
>> Here are some thoughts. I have taken your tack and entered comments in the
>> text as if it were a running dialogue.
>>
>> SW,
>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
>> extra work not required of other students.
>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>>
>> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
>> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>>
>> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>>
>> MW,
>> Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have.  How
>> about:
>>
>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
>> extra work not required of other students.
>> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students,
>> solely
>> because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
>> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>>
>> SW reply:
>> In fact, I'm sure I didn't present the argument as strongly as it might
>> have
>> been presented, but, cut me some slack here, I wrote quickly and didn't
>> know
>> Professor Workman would be coming through with his fine-toothed comb.
>> Seriously though, your formulation is more clear, though it still relies
>> on
>> the commonsense proposition that we should not have to do things that are
>> unfair/unjust (I use the two interchangeably). We shouldn't have to do
>> things that are discriminatory, because those things are unfair, and we
>> shouldn't have to do unfair things.
>>
>> MW,
>> Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above version.
>> Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases are
>> not the same.
>>
>> Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges and
>> extra work not required of other students.
>> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students,
>> solely
>> because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
>> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>>
>> SW reply,
>> Actually, I agree with the argument in both cases. I shouldn't have to
>> take
>> classes that require more work of me solely because I am blind. Nor should
>>
>> a
>> woman have to take a class, God knows what it might be, that would require
>> more work of her solely because she is a woman. I recognize that my
>> initial
>> post reads as if I take issue with the claim that "people shouldn't have
>> to
>> do things that are unfair," or the parallel from your reformulation,
>> "students shouldn't have to take classes that are discriminatory," but
>> that
>> is not the case. In an ideal world, such injustices would not exist. What
>> I
>> take issue with is people making the jump from "I shouldn't have to" to "I
>> am right to not." The mere fact that, in a perfectly just world, one would
>> not have to do something, in no way means that, in the world as it
>> actually
>> exists, doing that thing is not the right thing to do. I think that the
>> path
>> toward justice in the classroom lies, in particular, in making
>> information,
>> which is frequently presented in a visual fashion, more readily available
>> to
>> blind students, and, in general, in teaching courses with an eye toward
>> reaching as many students as possible, and not in granting students
>> waivers
>> or exemptions. I would suspect that you agree with me here, as you have
>> basically said as much.
>>
>> One other question you can get at by thinking about other parallel
>> arguments
>> is this: What if you take characteristics like sex or visual acuity out,
>> and
>> substitute instead characteristics that have more to do with academic
>> success. Should dyslexics, in a just world, not be forced to take lit
>> classes? Should those who struggle with math, in an ideal world, be exempt
>> from math courses? It seems obvious to me that the answer is no, so what
>> is
>> the difference? Is calculus not discriminatory to somebody who lacks the
>> facility to deal with numbers? Is there something more fundamental to the
>> education of a person about math than art?
>>
>> MW,
>> The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to
>> take
>> very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has been
>> badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only sighted
>> students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's
>> unjust,
>>
>> and it should be challenged.
>>
>> SW reply,
>> I largely agree with you. What should be challenged is the way the
>> information is presented, not what information is required to be learned.
>> As
>> Arielle has rightly pointed out, math, science, statistics, economics, and
>> many other courses in which material is traditionally presented visually
>> are
>> by no means inherently visual. We should absolutely fight for better
>> access,
>> but in the time being, while access is still what it is, we have to choose
>> between two less than perfect options. 1) Skip the class, miss out on the
>> content, which obviously the university felt important, and send the
>> message
>> that we cannot compete, or 2) deal with the injustice of having to do
>> extra
>> work compared with that which we would have to do if we were sighted
>> versions of ourselves. I'll pick number 2 any day.
>>
>>
>>
>> SW,
>> If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. The
>> "when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>>
>> MW,
>> If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all its
>> forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do extra
>> work simply because they are blind.
>>
>> SW reply:
>> Yes, we do have to fight it, but while we are fighting it, we have to get
>> by
>> the best we can. As I say, neither skipping the class nor taking it and
>> doing extra work are ideal, but unless we wish to suspend our academic
>> careers until the battle is won, that is the choice we are left with, and
>> you know where I come down.
>>
>> SW,
>> Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the
>> optional trip?"
>>
>> MW,
>> Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an argument
>> showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have something,
>> but
>> without this, I think the analogy fails.
>>
>> SW reply:
>> That was kind of tongue in cheek. Clearly there is no argument from
>> justice
>> or fairness on the part of the school here. What I was driving at was the
>> fact that, to a given individual, what is fair or just often conveniently
>> coincides with what would be best for them. Also, as I'm sure you
>> recognize,
>> an argument's not being a good one rarely stops people from making it, and
>> often with considerable effect. Surely if I had a class waved, and later
>> wanted to do something that my school didn't want to let me do, the waiver
>> would come back to bite, or at least attempt to bite, me in the ass.
>>
>>
>> SW,
>> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
>> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue to
>> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure you
>> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>>
>> MW,
>> It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for
>> things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking Alone
>> and
>>
>> Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early
>> goals
>>
>> of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn money
>> in
>> the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this not a
>> kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn a
>> certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is one
>> example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a change
>> has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind people
>> and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a kind
>> of
>> a waver.
>>
>> SW reply:
>> When I say we haven't made progress by "requesting a waiver" I, of course,
>> do not mean it literally. Taken literally, it doesn't make much sense at
>> all. Read "requesting a waiver" as "taking the easy way out," which taking
>>
>> a
>> waiver certainly is.
>>
>> MW,
>> I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of
>> products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with
>> clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all
>> blind
>> people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.
>>
>> SW reply:
>> Thinking about the ought and knowing the ideal are very useful, and, in
>> fact, necessary if one wants to change things for the better, but it is
>> dangerous to fixate on how things ought to be to the point where one
>> becomes
>> unwilling to deal with what actually is. Of course, full access and
>> universal design are laudable goals. I share them with you. I agree that
>> time and energy should be devoted to changing the system rather than
>> exclusively to figuring out how to get along within the broken one we
>> have,
>> but at the same time, if we don't figure out how to get along in the world
>> we inhabit, we will never amass the power to change it. Both approaches
>> are
>> necessary.
>>
>> Thanks for the interesting thoughts and forcing me to clarify my own
>> thinking.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Fri Jan 14 02:00:14 2011
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 21:00:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=UGSAo7mNi88Rz3dy8M7Z8YAWt8fcqq=eXWVaZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8237E79186E14E13BB0E09EDF6D45BE4@SerenaPC>

Hi Joe and all,

I'm also using Excell 2003.  How do you get the rows and columns to match
correctly, so Jaws can read all the column and row headings?  I thought the
command was something like control shift R for row and control shift C for
column, but these commands aren't working.  Maybe, I was using an older
version of Excell on my old computer.

Thanks,
Serena

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Darian Smith
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:32 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] .XLS files

Thanks so much, Joe!   and that, my friends is  the beauty of  list
serves! *smile*

On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. Activate the Data menu with Alt + D.
>
> 2. Enter on Sort.
>
> 3. Say "yes" to the warning about expanding selection.  This is so that
all
> your other columns will be synchronized.
>
> 4. Pick the column you want to sort.  Tab and pick whether you want
> ascending or descending.  Make sure to check the box for the Header row,
> unless you want the top row to be sorted as well.
>
> 5. Enter on OK, and you're in business.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darian Smith [mailto:dsmithnfb at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:22 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>
> It is 2003
>
> On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What version of Excel are you using?  I can help if it's 2003.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
> their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:07 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> I am dealing with a spread sheet of names and such and am looking to
>> alphibetize them in Excel, might anyone have any ideas on how to sort
>> them as I would intend to?
>>   Thanks so much in  advance!
>>   Darian
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>>
>> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
>> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf
> b%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
>
> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co
m
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin

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From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 02:12:40 2011
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:12:40 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Waver
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimqqr0e0AeXryF+UgV8uPa8kDfbs1uC1JQ9m19G@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.109713.1294719438.4373.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org><002001cbb2e5$650f7d80$2f2e7880$@com><25CF34BDA26243298CB28133477B8418@MarcPC>
	<AANLkTimqqr0e0AeXryF+UgV8uPa8kDfbs1uC1JQ9m19G@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60A04A649F9049A69DCADE692F7A80EB@MarcPC>

Hello Arielle,

Arielle said,
What I fail to understand is how fighting for a waiver is an effective means 
of fighting discrimination.

Marc says,
Near the end of my message, I said:

I admit that a waver might not do much to change the way classes are taught. 
Since my main point is that wavers are not necessarily the easier option, 
and that there are good reasons for pursuing them, I'm not troubled by that 
admission.

So I agree that receiving a waver doesn't necessarily do much to fight 
discrimination, but that was never really my point.  The fact that it does 
not necessarily do much to change the system does not mean that it equals 
taking the easy way out, or that it is, as you put it, "a very passive means 
of self-defense".

Arielle said,
On the other hand, insisting on taking the course, while also getting on the 
backs of those in authority about making the class accessible, is an active 
means of fighting injustice, which in the end will benefit the entire 
community and not just yourself.

Marc says,
You sneak a hugely presumptuous caveat in that sentence, and in doing so, I 
think you end up begging the question.  If I remove the caveat, "while also 
getting on the backs of those in authority about making the class 
accessible", the argument collapses.  Taking the class without getting on 
anyone's back, which seems just as likely an approach, does nothing to 
change the system either, and you end up only benefitting yourself.  Yet, 
the sentence can easily be rewritten:

On the other hand, insisting on taking an alternative course to complete the 
requirement, while also getting on the backs of those in authority about 
making the class accessible, is an active means of fighting injustice, which 
in the end will benefit the entire community and not just yourself.

It goes back to the point I made in my last message:

In other words, changing the way the classes are taught is independent of 
taking a waver or not.

You can accept the system as it is while taking the class, or you can fight 
to change the system while fighting for a waver.  Neither approach has a 
monopoly on changing the teaching method.  Both approaches, to me, seem 
equally likely, assuming we exclude the caveat you included, to do little to 
end the discrimination.

Cheers,

Marc

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <nabs.president at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waver


> Mark and all,
>
> What I fail to understand is how fighting for a waiver is an effective
> means of fighting discrimination. To me, getting a waiver sounds like
> a very passive means of self-defense which does nothing to change the
> system. If you ask to have a class waived, and the waiver is granted,
> you and your concerns are out of the minds of the university
> administration. They don't have to worry about making courses
> accessible if all the disabled people can just opt out of them. On the
> other hand, insisting on taking the course, while also getting on the
> backs of those in authority about making the class accessible, is an
> active means of fighting injustice, which in the end will benefit the
> entire community and not just yourself. There's also the issue that
> discrimination complaints, in the real world, are not always heard or
> processed to our satisfaction. So why not complain, but while waiting
> for the complaint to prompt action, move along in the class and handle
> the accommodations necessary to be successful?
>
> Respectfully,
> Arielle
>
> On 1/13/11, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Sean,
>>
>> You make some very persuasive points.  I hesitate to continue the debate,
>> and I suspect some would prefer that I don't, but I think it's such an
>> interesting topic with wider implications about how we see ourselves and
>> other blind people, so I will make a few points.
>>
>> SW,
>> What I take issue with is people making the jump from "I shouldn't have 
>> to"
>> to "I am right to not." The mere fact that, in a perfectly just world, 
>> one
>> would not have to do something, in no way means that, in the world as it
>> actually exists, doing that thing is not the right thing to do.
>>
>> MW,
>> I think this is the most significant point you make.  I don't really have 
>> a
>> response.  That may have been what I was doing.  At least, I need to give
>> this more thought.  The point, though, that I initially wanted to make 
>> comes
>> in response to something you say later.
>>
>> SW,
>> Read "requesting a waiver" as "taking the easy way out," which taking a
>> waiver certainly is.
>>
>> MW,
>> I don't know if this is just a throw away statement, or if you actually
>> believe it.  I think you do believe it, and this is really the attitude 
>> that
>> I think is wrong.  Taking a waver, or perhaps fighting for the right to
>> receive a waver, which is often what is required, is not necessarily the
>> easy way out.  It might be much easier to simply go along with the system 
>> as
>> it stands.  Hire the readers, or have the disability office hire the 
>> readers
>> for you, spend more time trying to understand the visually presented
>> concepts, walk away with a mediocre grade, do less well than you 
>> otherwise
>> would have done in your other classes, and take pride in the fact that 
>> you
>> didn't take a waver.  Or, stand up to your department/faculty, convince
>> those in charge that there are other ways you can demonstrate the bredth 
>> of
>> knowledge they are looking for, ways that will not require you to deal as
>> much with inaccessible materials, spend more time learning about the 
>> topics
>> that interest you and that you plan to work on later in life, get better
>> grades in all your classes, and take pride in the fact that you stood up 
>> for
>> yourself and nagotiated an alternative arrangement that suited everyone
>> better.  How is this taking the easy way out? The attitude I take issue 
>> with
>> is that a waver necessarily, or certainly, equals taking the easy way 
>> out.
>> You might think my reconstruction is farfetched, but I really don't think 
>> it
>> is.  And I think it is important to be less sweeping in our condemnation 
>> of
>> other's decisions.
>>
>> If I can convince you or others that fighting for a waver is not 
>> necessarily
>> taking the easy way out, and I don't mean that there are farfetched
>> scenarios in which it is acceptable, but that it is a legitimate option 
>> that
>> can be equally demanding, then that's all I'm aiming to do.  Just a 
>> little
>> less total rejection of the waver as an acceptable, and sometimes
>> appropriate, option.
>>
>> SW,
>> if we don't figure out how to get along in the world we inhabit, we will
>> never amass the power to change it.
>>
>> MW,
>> There is something lofty about this statement.  It seems obviously true 
>> at
>> first, but where's the justification, where's the argument to back it up.
>> After some reflection, it's really not all that obvious to me.  How does
>> learning how to get along as a slave bring one any closer to freedom? 
>> It's
>> also worth noting that finding an alternative way of completing a course
>> requirement is equally a means of getting along in the world we inhabit.
>> And this brings me to my last point.
>>
>> SW,
>> I think that the path toward justice in the classroom lies, in 
>> particular,
>> in making information, which is frequently presented in a visual fashion,
>> more readily available to blind students, and, in general, in teaching
>> courses with an eye toward reaching as many students as possible, and not 
>> in
>> granting students waivers or exemptions.
>>
>> MW,
>> I admit that a waver might not do much to change the way classes are 
>> taught.
>> Since my main point is that wavers are not necessarily the easier option,
>> and that there are good reasons for pursuing them, I'm not troubled by 
>> that
>> admission.  But it isn't clear to me that taking the class, hiring 
>> readers,
>> relying on classmates, spending more time and effort on a single class, 
>> and
>> generally placing the burden on the student rather than the professor and
>> the university, where it belongs, will do much to change the system 
>> either.
>> In other words, changing the way the classes are taught is independent of
>> taking a waver or not.  The course might remain as inaccessible despite 
>> the
>> student taking a waver, maybe even because the student went along with 
>> the
>> inaccessible class, rather than arguing that it is inaccessible and 
>> should
>> not be required.
>>
>> There are other things you say that I'm unsure of or disagree with, but I
>> think the most important points have been covered.
>>
>> As someone who took philosophy, you should be used to the fine-tooth-comb
>> treatment, but I apologize if it has been used to pick nits.  Not my
>> intention, though too often my habit.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Marc
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Waver
>>
>>
>>> Marc,
>>>
>>> Here are some thoughts. I have taken your tack and entered comments in 
>>> the
>>> text as if it were a running dialogue.
>>>
>>> SW,
>>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
>>> extra work not required of other students.
>>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take it.
>>>
>>> Short argument, I know. Seems there must be a missing premise there
>>> somewhere, no? Maybe something like:
>>>
>>> People shouldn't have to do things that aren't fair.
>>>
>>> MW,
>>> Not sure you've presented the argument as strongly as you could have. 
>>> How
>>> about:
>>>
>>> Being blind, this class would present me with additional challenges and
>>> extra work not required of other students.
>>> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students,
>>> solely
>>> because I'm blind, is a form of discrimination.
>>> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>>>
>>> SW reply:
>>> In fact, I'm sure I didn't present the argument as strongly as it might
>>> have
>>> been presented, but, cut me some slack here, I wrote quickly and didn't
>>> know
>>> Professor Workman would be coming through with his fine-toothed comb.
>>> Seriously though, your formulation is more clear, though it still relies
>>> on
>>> the commonsense proposition that we should not have to do things that 
>>> are
>>> unfair/unjust (I use the two interchangeably). We shouldn't have to do
>>> things that are discriminatory, because those things are unfair, and we
>>> shouldn't have to do unfair things.
>>>
>>> MW,
>>> Now, you'll probably disagree, but don't disagree with the above 
>>> version.
>>> Instead, show me why the following one is wrong, or why the two cases 
>>> are
>>> not the same.
>>>
>>> Being a woman, this class would present me with additional challenges 
>>> and
>>> extra work not required of other students.
>>> Being require to complete extra work not required of other students,
>>> solely
>>> because I'm a woman, is a form of discrimination.
>>> Students should not have to take classes that discriminate.
>>> Therefore, I shouldn't have to take this particular class.
>>>
>>> SW reply,
>>> Actually, I agree with the argument in both cases. I shouldn't have to
>>> take
>>> classes that require more work of me solely because I am blind. Nor 
>>> should
>>>
>>> a
>>> woman have to take a class, God knows what it might be, that would 
>>> require
>>> more work of her solely because she is a woman. I recognize that my
>>> initial
>>> post reads as if I take issue with the claim that "people shouldn't have
>>> to
>>> do things that are unfair," or the parallel from your reformulation,
>>> "students shouldn't have to take classes that are discriminatory," but
>>> that
>>> is not the case. In an ideal world, such injustices would not exist. 
>>> What
>>> I
>>> take issue with is people making the jump from "I shouldn't have to" to 
>>> "I
>>> am right to not." The mere fact that, in a perfectly just world, one 
>>> would
>>> not have to do something, in no way means that, in the world as it
>>> actually
>>> exists, doing that thing is not the right thing to do. I think that the
>>> path
>>> toward justice in the classroom lies, in particular, in making
>>> information,
>>> which is frequently presented in a visual fashion, more readily 
>>> available
>>> to
>>> blind students, and, in general, in teaching courses with an eye toward
>>> reaching as many students as possible, and not in granting students
>>> waivers
>>> or exemptions. I would suspect that you agree with me here, as you have
>>> basically said as much.
>>>
>>> One other question you can get at by thinking about other parallel
>>> arguments
>>> is this: What if you take characteristics like sex or visual acuity out,
>>> and
>>> substitute instead characteristics that have more to do with academic
>>> success. Should dyslexics, in a just world, not be forced to take lit
>>> classes? Should those who struggle with math, in an ideal world, be 
>>> exempt
>>> from math courses? It seems obvious to me that the answer is no, so what
>>> is
>>> the difference? Is calculus not discriminatory to somebody who lacks the
>>> facility to deal with numbers? Is there something more fundamental to 
>>> the
>>> education of a person about math than art?
>>>
>>> MW,
>>> The point I would make is that a college that requires all students to
>>> take
>>> very visually oriented classes as part of completion of a degree has 
>>> been
>>> badly designed.  It has been designed on the assumption that only 
>>> sighted
>>> students will be attending the university.  And that is unfair, it's
>>> unjust,
>>>
>>> and it should be challenged.
>>>
>>> SW reply,
>>> I largely agree with you. What should be challenged is the way the
>>> information is presented, not what information is required to be 
>>> learned.
>>> As
>>> Arielle has rightly pointed out, math, science, statistics, economics, 
>>> and
>>> many other courses in which material is traditionally presented visually
>>> are
>>> by no means inherently visual. We should absolutely fight for better
>>> access,
>>> but in the time being, while access is still what it is, we have to 
>>> choose
>>> between two less than perfect options. 1) Skip the class, miss out on 
>>> the
>>> content, which obviously the university felt important, and send the
>>> message
>>> that we cannot compete, or 2) deal with the injustice of having to do
>>> extra
>>> work compared with that which we would have to do if we were sighted
>>> versions of ourselves. I'll pick number 2 any day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SW,
>>> If we say we want to be treated like anybody else, we have to mean it. 
>>> The
>>> "when it suits me" Caveat undermines the whole stance.
>>>
>>> MW,
>>> If we say discrimination is wrong, we have to fight against it, in all 
>>> its
>>> forms, including those cases where blind students are forced to do extra
>>> work simply because they are blind.
>>>
>>> SW reply:
>>> Yes, we do have to fight it, but while we are fighting it, we have to 
>>> get
>>> by
>>> the best we can. As I say, neither skipping the class nor taking it and
>>> doing extra work are ideal, but unless we wish to suspend our academic
>>> careers until the battle is won, that is the choice we are left with, 
>>> and
>>> you know where I come down.
>>>
>>> SW,
>>> Wouldn't it be easier, and maybe more fair, to just have you skip the
>>> optional trip?"
>>>
>>> MW,
>>> Don't see how this would be more fair.  Perhaps if there were an 
>>> argument
>>> showing that this really would be more fair, then you'd have something,
>>> but
>>> without this, I think the analogy fails.
>>>
>>> SW reply:
>>> That was kind of tongue in cheek. Clearly there is no argument from
>>> justice
>>> or fairness on the part of the school here. What I was driving at was 
>>> the
>>> fact that, to a given individual, what is fair or just often 
>>> conveniently
>>> coincides with what would be best for them. Also, as I'm sure you
>>> recognize,
>>> an argument's not being a good one rarely stops people from making it, 
>>> and
>>> often with considerable effect. Surely if I had a class waved, and later
>>> wanted to do something that my school didn't want to let me do, the 
>>> waiver
>>> would come back to bite, or at least attempt to bite, me in the ass.
>>>
>>>
>>> SW,
>>> Fortunately, we in the NFB are working together to make things less
>>> difficult, and through our collective work we have built, and continue 
>>> to
>>> build, a brighter future for all blind people. I will, however, assure 
>>> you
>>> that none of our progress was ever attained by requesting a waiver.
>>>
>>> MW,
>>> It sort of depends on what you mean by a waver.  The NFB has asked for
>>> things to be altered for the benefit of the blind.  I read Walking Alone
>>> and
>>>
>>> Marching Together not that long ago, and if I recall, one of the early
>>> goals
>>>
>>> of the organization was to make it so that blind people could earn money
>>> in
>>> the market place without having welfare benefits cut back.  Is this not 
>>> a
>>> kind of a waver? Everyone else gets their benefits cut when they earn a
>>> certain income, but this shouldn't happen for blind people? This is one
>>> example that readily comes to mind.  I think pretty much any time a 
>>> change
>>> has been requested that is designed to make things easier for blind 
>>> people
>>> and will lead to differential treatment, this can be construed as a kind
>>> of
>>> a waver.
>>>
>>> SW reply:
>>> When I say we haven't made progress by "requesting a waiver" I, of 
>>> course,
>>> do not mean it literally. Taken literally, it doesn't make much sense at
>>> all. Read "requesting a waiver" as "taking the easy way out," which 
>>> taking
>>>
>>> a
>>> waiver certainly is.
>>>
>>> MW,
>>> I think if more energy were spent fighting the discriminatory design of
>>> products, services, and institutions, and less time spent coming up with
>>> clever ways of getting along within these badly designed systems, all
>>> blind
>>> people would be a lot better off, not just the clever ones.
>>>
>>> SW reply:
>>> Thinking about the ought and knowing the ideal are very useful, and, in
>>> fact, necessary if one wants to change things for the better, but it is
>>> dangerous to fixate on how things ought to be to the point where one
>>> becomes
>>> unwilling to deal with what actually is. Of course, full access and
>>> universal design are laudable goals. I share them with you. I agree that
>>> time and energy should be devoted to changing the system rather than
>>> exclusively to figuring out how to get along within the broken one we
>>> have,
>>> but at the same time, if we don't figure out how to get along in the 
>>> world
>>> we inhabit, we will never amass the power to change it. Both approaches
>>> are
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the interesting thoughts and forcing me to clarify my own
>>> thinking.
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gmail.com 



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Fri Jan 14 04:01:56 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 20:01:56 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Audio from NLS music Section
Message-ID: <vG1q1f00S2PutTY05G1sPE@netzero.net>

Hello,

Do you know if the NLS music section provides audio recordings of 
musical scores? Or, are there music recordings from the NLS music 
section?

Thanks,

humberto


From danedunham26 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 15:33:58 2011
From: danedunham26 at gmail.com (Dane Dunham)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:33:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Flat-topped Stoves
Message-ID: <000e01cbb400$777d4850$5012c90a@usd232.org>

Hi,

I am currently taking a nutrition class for my senior year in high school, and all the kitchens were recently remodeled with newer equipment including flat-topped stoves.  Does anyone know of a possible technique a blind person could use to tell whether or not the pot is properly centered on the burner?

Thanks,

Dane

From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 15:48:01 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:48:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
In-Reply-To: <8237E79186E14E13BB0E09EDF6D45BE4@SerenaPC>
References: <AANLkTi=UGSAo7mNi88Rz3dy8M7Z8YAWt8fcqq=eXWVaZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8237E79186E14E13BB0E09EDF6D45BE4@SerenaPC>
Message-ID: <62095DCFF20E4300B57E4C47E27D4146@Rufus>

Hi Serena,

I'm not sure I completely understand your question.  If you want JAWS to
list all the items in a row or column, you use Insert + Shift + C or R.  If
you want JAWS to read column or row titles as you navigate, use Insert + V
and press "T" until you get to Title Reading.  Let me know if that helps.

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Serena Cucco
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:00 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] .XLS files

Hi Joe and all,

I'm also using Excell 2003.  How do you get the rows and columns to match
correctly, so Jaws can read all the column and row headings?  I thought the
command was something like control shift R for row and control shift C for
column, but these commands aren't working.  Maybe, I was using an older
version of Excell on my old computer.

Thanks,
Serena

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Darian Smith
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 5:32 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] .XLS files

Thanks so much, Joe!   and that, my friends is  the beauty of  list
serves! *smile*

On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. Activate the Data menu with Alt + D.
>
> 2. Enter on Sort.
>
> 3. Say "yes" to the warning about expanding selection.  This is so that
all
> your other columns will be synchronized.
>
> 4. Pick the column you want to sort.  Tab and pick whether you want
> ascending or descending.  Make sure to check the box for the Header row,
> unless you want the top row to be sorted as well.
>
> 5. Enter on OK, and you're in business.
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darian Smith [mailto:dsmithnfb at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:22 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>
> It is 2003
>
> On 1/7/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What version of Excel are you using?  I can help if it's 2003.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
> their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 3:07 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] .XLS files
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> I am dealing with a spread sheet of names and such and am looking to
>> alphibetize them in Excel, might anyone have any ideas on how to sort
>> them as I would intend to?
>>   Thanks so much in  advance!
>>   Darian
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>>
>> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
>> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnf
> b%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
>
> "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
> spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co
m
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 14 16:07:16 2011
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:07:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Flat-topped Stoves
References: <000e01cbb400$777d4850$5012c90a@usd232.org>
Message-ID: <C41830699F854C7597C66A0C6D5F8ADD@D3DTZP41>

Hello:

     After you get familiar with a particular stove, you will know about 
where to put the pot or pan. We have a Bosch stove. I put the pot where I 
think it ought to be and turn on the burner. If it is not centered, you will 
feel more heat on one side of the pot than on the other. When the burner is 
first started, move your hands around the outside of the pot. You will feel 
heat if it isn't centered. You can also use the distance from knovs or the 
edge of the stove as a guide. I often have food in the pot before I turn on 
the burner. Hope this helps.


Regards,

Robert


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dane Dunham" <danedunham26 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:33 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Flat-topped Stoves


> Hi,
>
> I am currently taking a nutrition class for my senior year in high school, 
> and all the kitchens were recently remodeled with newer equipment 
> including flat-topped stoves.  Does anyone know of a possible technique a 
> blind person could use to tell whether or not the pot is properly centered 
> on the burner?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dane
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net 



From ginisd at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jan 14 19:36:57 2011
From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:36:57 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: GW Micro Providing FREE Online Training Webinars
Message-ID: <EA8F36BF72E641C7845B846084529085@windows4c0ed96>

 

 

  _____  

From: gw-news at gwmicro.com [mailto:gw-news at gwmicro.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 7:31 AM
To: gw-news at gwmicro.com
Subject: GW Micro Providing FREE Online Training Webinars

 

GW Micro is proud to announce our online webinar training series.  These are
free training sessions that typically last up to an hour in length.  These
webinars are a good way to brush up on your Window-Eyes skills, as well as
to learn how Window-Eyes works with various applications.  Our online
training series provides worksheets for each webinar, which are useful for a
classroom setting.  Whether you are a seasoned veteran, or a beginner to
Window-Eyes, our hope is that this online training series will enhance your
Window-Eyes skillset and to provide you with the tools that will allow you
better access to your computer.

For 2011, these training webinars take place on the second Wednesday of
every month at 2 P.M. Eastern time (19:00 UTC or 18:00 UTC during DST) the
schedule for the free training webinars follows:

2/9: What's new in the next version of Window-Eyes?

3/9: The basics of using the Internet with Window-Eyes

4/13: Reading a PDF file with Window-Eyes

5/11: What is a Script, and how does it help me?

6/8: Accessing iTunes with Window-Eyes

7/13: How do I read in Word?

8/10: Window-Eyes and Excel: How do I get monitor cells and my headers to
read?

9/14: How do I use the mouse to read the screen?

10/12: How do I use Thunderbird to read my email?

11/9: How do I read those pesky PowerPoint presentations?

12/14: Social networking and Window-Eyes

You do not need to register for the webinars.  Simply go to
www.gwmicro.com/meeting, make sure you have the Talking Communities plugin
downloaded, and when prompted for your username and password, simply enter
your first and last name as your username.  No password is needed.  There is
a limit to the amount of people that the room will hold, so space is given
on a first-come, first-served basis.  If you need help accessing the room,
please call Talking Communities support at (262) 456-5911.  The training
webinars will be archived, and available for download or streaming.  Learn
more at http://www.gwmicro.com/Training/Webinar_Training/.  If you have
specific questions regarding the online training series, please contact Drew
Markley at drew at gwmicro.com.

Jeremy Curry
Director of Training
GW Micro, Inc.
Phone: (260) 489-3671
Fax: (260) 489-2608
Email: jeremy at gwmicro.com
Web: www.gwmicro.com


From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 20:47:39 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:47:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Flat-topped Stoves
In-Reply-To: <C41830699F854C7597C66A0C6D5F8ADD@D3DTZP41>
References: <000e01cbb400$777d4850$5012c90a@usd232.org>
	<C41830699F854C7597C66A0C6D5F8ADD@D3DTZP41>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4empv6+3Qa_hbsdLb0EWQBmWLQRQYdz1SJVu0@mail.gmail.com>

Put the skillet where you think it should go (with some minimal
knowledge of a stove, you should be able to approximate the location)
and turn on the burner.  Now, move your hands around the skillet --
that is, over it, around the edges, in a circular motion, but don't
touch it.  This allows you to feel where the heat is coming from and
gives you the capability to center the skillet better.  You may have
to touch it a little bit but this should be OK so long as you get it
centered within the first few seconds of turning on the burner.  These
stoves tend to heat up very quickly.

Thanks,
Robby

On 1/14/11, Robert Jaquiss <rjaquiss at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hello:
>
>      After you get familiar with a particular stove, you will know about
> where to put the pot or pan. We have a Bosch stove. I put the pot where I
> think it ought to be and turn on the burner. If it is not centered, you will
> feel more heat on one side of the pot than on the other. When the burner is
> first started, move your hands around the outside of the pot. You will feel
> heat if it isn't centered. You can also use the distance from knovs or the
> edge of the stove as a guide. I often have food in the pot before I turn on
> the burner. Hope this helps.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dane Dunham" <danedunham26 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:33 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Flat-topped Stoves
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am currently taking a nutrition class for my senior year in high school,
>>
>> and all the kitchens were recently remodeled with newer equipment
>> including flat-topped stoves.  Does anyone know of a possible technique a
>> blind person could use to tell whether or not the pot is properly centered
>>
>> on the burner?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dane
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 23:30:47 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:30:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
In-Reply-To: <A49D83D92F334613AF9548B8FE54C2E2@Rufus>
References: <A49D83D92F334613AF9548B8FE54C2E2@Rufus>
Message-ID: <E921128F-3208-46EC-A2D5-EB85921289DF@gmail.com>

Ok I went to the site and it said on the 17th not the 14th. That's not what concerns me though I went to the news that the summer application was there and it took me to a Facebook page. How in the  blazes do I apply for this thing?
On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> The Sierra Group is assisting Barclays Bank as they recruit candidates with
> disabilities and veterans for their well paying summer internships! Deadline
> is short, please send your resumes
> College students with disabilities, including VETERANS, take note, Barclays
> Capital, a leading global investment bank, has a culture that emphasizes
> teamwork and collaboration. LEARN while you EARN. Apply today for a 10 week,
> PAID SUMMER INTERNSHIP! 
> Internships are located across the country and abroad. 
> Fields of study range from Investment Banking, to Technology, to Human
> Resources and MORE 
> 
> Please submit your resumes today! DEADLINE to apply for Summer 2011, 10
> week, PAID Internships is Jan. 14th so apply
> NOW.www.barcap.com/expectexcellence to apply directly.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 00:42:04 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:42:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
In-Reply-To: <E921128F-3208-46EC-A2D5-EB85921289DF@gmail.com>
References: <A49D83D92F334613AF9548B8FE54C2E2@Rufus>
	<E921128F-3208-46EC-A2D5-EB85921289DF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42CEDC907E5E4D4EA7AF55041FED2F4B@Rufus>

I would normally pull the journalist's preferred line:  I don't make the
news; I only report it.  But, I'm feeling nice today.  Here's the link you
need:

https://www.barclays.gtios.com/BarclaysCapital/index.asp?JSActiveYN=2&url=/B
arclaysCapital/index.asp

If you have difficulties, e-mail them at:

jobaccess at barcap.com.

Good luck!

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah Alawami [mailto:marrie12 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:31 PM
To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students

Ok I went to the site and it said on the 17th not the 14th. 
That's not what concerns me though I went to the news that the 
summer application was there and it took me to a Facebook page. 
How in the  blazes do I apply for this thing?
On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> The Sierra Group is assisting Barclays Bank as they recruit 
candidates with
> disabilities and veterans for their well paying summer 
internships! Deadline
> is short, please send your resumes
> College students with disabilities, including VETERANS, take 
note, Barclays
> Capital, a leading global investment bank, has a culture that 
emphasizes
> teamwork and collaboration. LEARN while you EARN. Apply today 
for a 10 week,
> PAID SUMMER INTERNSHIP! 
> Internships are located across the country and abroad. 
> Fields of study range from Investment Banking, to Technology, to Human
> Resources and MORE 
> 
> Please submit your resumes today! DEADLINE to apply for 
Summer 2011, 10
> week, PAID Internships is Jan. 14th so apply
> NOW.www.barcap.com/expectexcellence to apply directly.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12
%40gmail.com



From missheather at comcast.net  Sat Jan 15 01:37:49 2011
From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:37:49 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Textbooks
Message-ID: <1DF9FD444BE44AA38AFC98B044A5B196@heathersony>


FYI:

  
REPOSITORY OF ACCESSIBLE TEXTBOOKS

The AccessText Network is a national online database of 
alternative college materials. Students with disabilities who 
are enrolled at member colleges and universities can receive 
books in accessible electronic formats in just a few days. The 
network has more than 500 colleges and universities in 49 states 
currently enrolled, providing students with disabilities access 
to more than 360,000 textbook titles. You can learn if your 
school participates in this network by contacting its office for 
students with disabilities. For more information, visit 
wwwddAccessTextddorg.


From jty727 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 02:03:33 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:03:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Textbooks
In-Reply-To: <1DF9FD444BE44AA38AFC98B044A5B196@heathersony>
References: <1DF9FD444BE44AA38AFC98B044A5B196@heathersony>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinkH8aE4vJ9uiiwnoPQC6KicV57XWER0q2dzDL5@mail.gmail.com>

What is the site for this?  The one I tried to put in that you put at
the bottom of your email and it didn't go anywhere

On 1/14/11, H. Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> FYI:
>
>
> REPOSITORY OF ACCESSIBLE TEXTBOOKS
>
> The AccessText Network is a national online database of
> alternative college materials. Students with disabilities who
> are enrolled at member colleges and universities can receive
> books in accessible electronic formats in just a few days. The
> network has more than 500 colleges and universities in 49 states
> currently enrolled, providing students with disabilities access
> to more than 360,000 textbook titles. You can learn if your
> school participates in this network by contacting its office for
> students with disabilities. For more information, visit
> wwwddAccessTextddorg.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From missheather at comcast.net  Sat Jan 15 02:23:38 2011
From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:23:38 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Textbooks
References: <1DF9FD444BE44AA38AFC98B044A5B196@heathersony>
	<AANLkTinkH8aE4vJ9uiiwnoPQC6KicV57XWER0q2dzDL5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FE677387EAD4F218C58C432CD037350@heathersony>

Justin,
I did not write the e-mail. Nor did I put a link into the e-mail. I 
simply forwarded the e-mail that I received from another list.

The link, indeed, does not go nowhere. In line with common practise, 
the writers of the original e-mail which I simply forwarded, wrote out 
the link rather than putting a live link in the e-mail. This helps to 
keep automated pesky netbots away from the site. So, you can't click 
on the link. Instead you must read the link and type it into your 
browser. I only discovered this when I checked using my braille 
display.

Type The following into your browser and it will take you to the 
website.

w w w dot access text dot o r g

Regards,

Heather
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Textbooks


What is the site for this?  The one I tried to put in that you put at
the bottom of your email and it didn't go anywhere

On 1/14/11, H. Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> FYI:
>
>
> REPOSITORY OF ACCESSIBLE TEXTBOOKS
>
> The AccessText Network is a national online database of
> alternative college materials. Students with disabilities who
> are enrolled at member colleges and universities can receive
> books in accessible electronic formats in just a few days. The
> network has more than 500 colleges and universities in 49 states
> currently enrolled, providing students with disabilities access
> to more than 360,000 textbook titles. You can learn if your
> school participates in this network by contacting its office for
> students with disabilities. For more information, visit
> wwwddAccessTextddorg.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net 




From jty727 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 02:34:38 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:34:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Textbooks
In-Reply-To: <0FE677387EAD4F218C58C432CD037350@heathersony>
References: <1DF9FD444BE44AA38AFC98B044A5B196@heathersony>
	<AANLkTinkH8aE4vJ9uiiwnoPQC6KicV57XWER0q2dzDL5@mail.gmail.com>
	<0FE677387EAD4F218C58C432CD037350@heathersony>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimxfMmJ0AetrK0vbzY5+sxHh6fahRb7m+NowtLE@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much!

On 1/14/11, H. Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> Justin,
> I did not write the e-mail. Nor did I put a link into the e-mail. I
> simply forwarded the e-mail that I received from another list.
>
> The link, indeed, does not go nowhere. In line with common practise,
> the writers of the original e-mail which I simply forwarded, wrote out
> the link rather than putting a live link in the e-mail. This helps to
> keep automated pesky netbots away from the site. So, you can't click
> on the link. Instead you must read the link and type it into your
> browser. I only discovered this when I checked using my braille
> display.
>
> Type The following into your browser and it will take you to the
> website.
>
> w w w dot access text dot o r g
>
> Regards,
>
> Heather
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 8:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible Textbooks
>
>
> What is the site for this?  The one I tried to put in that you put at
> the bottom of your email and it didn't go anywhere
>
> On 1/14/11, H. Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> FYI:
>>
>>
>> REPOSITORY OF ACCESSIBLE TEXTBOOKS
>>
>> The AccessText Network is a national online database of
>> alternative college materials. Students with disabilities who
>> are enrolled at member colleges and universities can receive
>> books in accessible electronic formats in just a few days. The
>> network has more than 500 colleges and universities in 49 states
>> currently enrolled, providing students with disabilities access
>> to more than 360,000 textbook titles. You can learn if your
>> school participates in this network by contacting its office for
>> students with disabilities. For more information, visit
>> wwwddAccessTextddorg.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 02:52:44 2011
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:52:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
In-Reply-To: <42CEDC907E5E4D4EA7AF55041FED2F4B@Rufus>
References: <A49D83D92F334613AF9548B8FE54C2E2@Rufus>
	<E921128F-3208-46EC-A2D5-EB85921289DF@gmail.com>
	<42CEDC907E5E4D4EA7AF55041FED2F4B@Rufus>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=rHxeQGs-jvZOGXmo+Q5b6jxRtzzYRNPk-eicL@mail.gmail.com>

And aren't we all glad your heart was warm and fuzzy today? Smiley!
M

On 1/14/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would normally pull the journalist's preferred line:  I don't make the
> news; I only report it.  But, I'm feeling nice today.  Here's the link you
> need:
>
> https://www.barclays.gtios.com/BarclaysCapital/index.asp?JSActiveYN=2&url=/B
> arclaysCapital/index.asp
>
> If you have difficulties, e-mail them at:
>
> jobaccess at barcap.com.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Alawami [mailto:marrie12 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:31 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
>
> Ok I went to the site and it said on the 17th not the 14th.
> That's not what concerns me though I went to the news that the
> summer application was there and it took me to a Facebook page.
> How in the  blazes do I apply for this thing?
> On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>> The Sierra Group is assisting Barclays Bank as they recruit
> candidates with
>> disabilities and veterans for their well paying summer
> internships! Deadline
>> is short, please send your resumes
>> College students with disabilities, including VETERANS, take
> note, Barclays
>> Capital, a leading global investment bank, has a culture that
> emphasizes
>> teamwork and collaboration. LEARN while you EARN. Apply today
> for a 10 week,
>> PAID SUMMER INTERNSHIP!
>> Internships are located across the country and abroad.
>> Fields of study range from Investment Banking, to Technology, to Human
>> Resources and MORE
>>
>> Please submit your resumes today! DEADLINE to apply for
> Summer 2011, 10
>> week, PAID Internships is Jan. 14th so apply
>> NOW.www.barcap.com/expectexcellence to apply directly.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 04:33:49 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:33:49 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
In-Reply-To: <42CEDC907E5E4D4EA7AF55041FED2F4B@Rufus>
References: <A49D83D92F334613AF9548B8FE54C2E2@Rufus>
	<E921128F-3208-46EC-A2D5-EB85921289DF@gmail.com>
	<42CEDC907E5E4D4EA7AF55041FED2F4B@Rufus>
Message-ID: <F32F1533-6DE7-46BB-9F60-8C9A36D21FD2@gmail.com>

Thanks. lol! Yeah the page was confusing. I'll take a look. I'm usually good at navagating a page, except when it comes to the facebook site. Bleh!

Take care.

S
On Jan 14, 2011, at 4:42 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> I would normally pull the journalist's preferred line:  I don't make the
> news; I only report it.  But, I'm feeling nice today.  Here's the link you
> need:
> 
> https://www.barclays.gtios.com/BarclaysCapital/index.asp?JSActiveYN=2&url=/B
> arclaysCapital/index.asp
> 
> If you have difficulties, e-mail them at:
> 
> jobaccess at barcap.com.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Joe
> 
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Alawami [mailto:marrie12 at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:31 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
> 
> Ok I went to the site and it said on the 17th not the 14th. 
> That's not what concerns me though I went to the news that the 
> summer application was there and it took me to a Facebook page. 
> How in the  blazes do I apply for this thing?
> On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
> 
>> The Sierra Group is assisting Barclays Bank as they recruit 
> candidates with
>> disabilities and veterans for their well paying summer 
> internships! Deadline
>> is short, please send your resumes
>> College students with disabilities, including VETERANS, take 
> note, Barclays
>> Capital, a leading global investment bank, has a culture that 
> emphasizes
>> teamwork and collaboration. LEARN while you EARN. Apply today 
> for a 10 week,
>> PAID SUMMER INTERNSHIP! 
>> Internships are located across the country and abroad. 
>> Fields of study range from Investment Banking, to Technology, to Human
>> Resources and MORE 
>> 
>> Please submit your resumes today! DEADLINE to apply for 
> Summer 2011, 10
>> week, PAID Internships is Jan. 14th so apply
>> NOW.www.barcap.com/expectexcellence to apply directly.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12
> %40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 04:35:28 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:35:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
In-Reply-To: <42CEDC907E5E4D4EA7AF55041FED2F4B@Rufus>
References: <A49D83D92F334613AF9548B8FE54C2E2@Rufus>
	<E921128F-3208-46EC-A2D5-EB85921289DF@gmail.com>
	<42CEDC907E5E4D4EA7AF55041FED2F4B@Rufus>
Message-ID: <240BA417-D11B-427E-9F17-D9740A12D376@gmail.com>

Oh and I've never heard that line before. Interesting. Now back to navigating this page.

S
On Jan 14, 2011, at 4:42 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> I would normally pull the journalist's preferred line:  I don't make the
> news; I only report it.  But, I'm feeling nice today.  Here's the link you
> need:
> 
> https://www.barclays.gtios.com/BarclaysCapital/index.asp?JSActiveYN=2&url=/B
> arclaysCapital/index.asp
> 
> If you have difficulties, e-mail them at:
> 
> jobaccess at barcap.com.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Joe
> 
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Alawami [mailto:marrie12 at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 6:31 PM
> To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Internship Possibility for Students
> 
> Ok I went to the site and it said on the 17th not the 14th. 
> That's not what concerns me though I went to the news that the 
> summer application was there and it took me to a Facebook page. 
> How in the  blazes do I apply for this thing?
> On Jan 13, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
> 
>> The Sierra Group is assisting Barclays Bank as they recruit 
> candidates with
>> disabilities and veterans for their well paying summer 
> internships! Deadline
>> is short, please send your resumes
>> College students with disabilities, including VETERANS, take 
> note, Barclays
>> Capital, a leading global investment bank, has a culture that 
> emphasizes
>> teamwork and collaboration. LEARN while you EARN. Apply today 
> for a 10 week,
>> PAID SUMMER INTERNSHIP! 
>> Internships are located across the country and abroad. 
>> Fields of study range from Investment Banking, to Technology, to Human
>> Resources and MORE 
>> 
>> Please submit your resumes today! DEADLINE to apply for 
> Summer 2011, 10
>> week, PAID Internships is Jan. 14th so apply
>> NOW.www.barcap.com/expectexcellence to apply directly.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nabs-l:
>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12
> %40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From amylsabo at comcast.net  Sat Jan 15 06:24:23 2011
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 06:24:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone question
Message-ID: <1211396801.1189677.1295072663391.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello all,

i hope that everyone is doing good so far for the new year! anyway, i had to get a new cell phone 2 years ago since my old one i had lost somewhere... i bought the htc-ozone with mobile speak... well, i love mobile spreak but, i hat the phone and, it always locks up mobile speak on it.

i also changed carriers from at&t to verizon. the reason that i hate this phone is that it's hard for me to use since my fingers are too big for the small keys on the phone. so, here's my question does anyone know of a cell phone that i can use with mobile speak besides the htc ozone through verizon or knows of a accessible phone through verizon?

thanks again and, i will forward to hearing from you all soon!


hugs,
amy

From kramc11 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 16:40:38 2011
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 11:40:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone question
In-Reply-To: <1211396801.1189677.1295072663391.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <1211396801.1189677.1295072663391.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <4075004AC3664505A08B247B391B95CA@SonyPC>

Well, the I-Phone is now available on Verizon. It is an accessible phone.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Amy Sabo" <amylsabo at comcast.net>
To: "NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS" <NABS-L at NFBNET.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:24 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone question


> hello all,
>
> i hope that everyone is doing good so far for the new year! anyway, i had 
> to get a new cell phone 2 years ago since my old one i had lost 
> somewhere... i bought the htc-ozone with mobile speak... well, i love 
> mobile spreak but, i hat the phone and, it always locks up mobile speak on 
> it.
>
> i also changed carriers from at&t to verizon. the reason that i hate this 
> phone is that it's hard for me to use since my fingers are too big for the 
> small keys on the phone. so, here's my question does anyone know of a cell 
> phone that i can use with mobile speak besides the htc ozone through 
> verizon or knows of a accessible phone through verizon?
>
> thanks again and, i will forward to hearing from you all soon!
>
>
> hugs,
> amy
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jan 15 20:11:22 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:11:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Winamp
Message-ID: <B063B94027564007A60AF012CACF31CF@Rufus>

Hello,

Anyone here using Winamp for their music/video needs?  I was hoping to get
some tips and tricks, and if I need scripts, where might I find these?
Thanks much in advance.

Regards,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sat Jan 15 23:13:18 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 15:13:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone question
Message-ID: <vzD21f00U2PutTY05zDAuz@netzero.net>

Yes, it will be available on February 10. The thing is, if you 
are not familiar with touch-screens, the IPhone will be a 
learning stretch for you. Unless you want to consider the iPhone, 
then go ahead and learn the touch-screen, which is quite new for 
you if you don't know how touch-screens work. Otherwise, please 
consider other carriers like t-mobile who supports the Knfb 
Reader phones. Or, just buy an unlocked phone from ebay or amazon 
dot com.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 11:40:38 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] cell phone question

>Well, the I-Phone is now available on Verizon. It is an 
accessible phone.


>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Amy Sabo" <amylsabo at comcast.net
>To: "NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS" <NABS-L at NFBNET.ORG
>Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:24 AM
>Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone question


>> hello all,

>> i hope that everyone is doing good so far for the new year! 
anyway, i had
>> to get a new cell phone 2 years ago since my old one i had lost
>> somewhere... i bought the htc-ozone with mobile speak... well, i 
love
>> mobile spreak but, i hat the phone and, it always locks up 
mobile speak on
>> it.

>> i also changed carriers from at&t to verizon. the reason that i 
hate this
>> phone is that it's hard for me to use since my fingers are too 
big for the
>> small keys on the phone. so, here's my question does anyone know 
of a cell
>> phone that i can use with mobile speak besides the htc ozone 
through
>> verizon or knows of a accessible phone through verizon?

>> thanks again and, i will forward to hearing from you all soon!


>> hugs,
>> amy
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%4
0gmail.com


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Sun Jan 16 00:19:17 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 19:19:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness Blog
Message-ID: <3B09D1C61CF2416EAE2C9CFBDB53B0CB@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hello,

I am writing because, this year, I have decided to include blogs by other blind people on various topics or blogs by sighted people on topics related to blindness in someway within posts on the Blindness Blog. If interested in my including your blog, please provide me with the direct address for your blog and one to two sentences telling me what the blog is about. In the subject line, write blindness blog/blindness and in the body of the email, place the blog address and descriptive sentences. Email it to me at aadkins7 at verizon.net
I will maintain the right to not include your blog, but I am hoping I can include all blogs because the Blindness Blog is a place to teach and learn about various aspects of living with blindness, from types of employment, to hobbies, to how blind people are educated, and beyond. Note that I may not include a listing of blogs on each post as this will depend on how many blogs I have. I hope to include them at least every other week. Thanks. Anita
www.blindnessblog.blogspot.com

From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 00:28:48 2011
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 19:28:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Winamp
In-Reply-To: <B063B94027564007A60AF012CACF31CF@Rufus>
References: <B063B94027564007A60AF012CACF31CF@Rufus>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin0uhvMvQL-=CrYkmto+nrnt4uwFX6SbOm96ts3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Joe,
  I do use Winnamp for my music needs but mostly for pretty basic
things-- Listening to music, making play lists, etc. So far i have
found it pretty accessible and no need for scripts. Do you have any
specific questions? I don't know how the program does with videos so
would appreciate hearing from those with experience in that regard.
   Katie

On 1/15/11, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Anyone here using Winamp for their music/video needs?  I was hoping to get
> some tips and tricks, and if I need scripts, where might I find these?
> Thanks much in advance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From empower at smart.net  Sun Jan  9 03:46:41 2011
From: empower at smart.net (Jamal Mazrui)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 21:46:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindmath] wxMaxima -- an accessible,
	computer algebra system
Message-ID: <auto-000186558957@mailfront2.g2host.com>

It seems rare these days to find sophisticated software with a 
graphical user interface that is accessible, even though that was 
apparently not a design goal of the project.  Thus, I want to 
encourage folks to check out wxMaxima if they have an interest in 
using software for mathematics work, or if they have an interest in a 
cross-platform development approach that results in accessible GUIs.

wxMaxima is a free, open source "computer algebra system" available at

http://maxima.sourceforge.net/


It uses wxWidgets as its GUI library, which wraps native controls of 
the operating system, and hence, implements the accessible API of 
that platform.  It includes the Maxima console-mode, command-line 
interface as well, which is also accessible with any screen reader.

In my opinion, this project is worth spreading the word about and 
showing support for!

Jamal




From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jan  8 21:59:08 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 15:59:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] switching majors?
In-Reply-To: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
References: <4D2722D6.60209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000186559073@mailfront2.g2host.com>

No, in my opinion that isn't the answer.  One degree isn't 
interchangeable for another in most instances, particularly in a 
technical field.  Further, at the risk of offending, I would say that 
if you are unable to come up with a solution for this class, then At 
08:27 AM 1/7/2011, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>I thought of something. Since this class with microsoft project will 
>basically not be accessible I wonder if I were to switch majors and 
>get a bachelors in psychology just to get a bachelors degree if I 
>could graduate and still work in the IT field with that degree? What 
>do you think?
>
>
>Josh
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>




From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sun Jan 16 22:11:25 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 14:11:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] braille certification
Message-ID: <wNBP1f00Y2PutTY05NBTs3@netzero.net>

Hello,

Just a quick question before I check all my emails: Has anyone 
gotten Braille certified? Is the test easy or hard in order to 
get Braille certified? What are reference materials?

I'm planning on getting a Braille certification this year, and 
need your comments about it.

Thanks


From mbrianwooten at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 23:21:42 2011
From: mbrianwooten at gmail.com (Brian Wooten)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 17:21:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Regarding cell phone questions
Message-ID: <AANLkTimxY9WYPZ-q+am4pdRY3KRA08F=C=eq6+9Gk0S=@mail.gmail.com>

Those considering the iPhone for Verizon should be aware that the life
cycle of the iPhone for new models is every year in June.  So if you
can wait four months from the initial Verizon iPhone release, then you
will be able to get the new Iphone 5 in June.  There is speculation
that the new summer model will have the LTE 4G data speeds.

I hope this information is helpful.

-- 
Brian Wooten


From treyman19 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 06:59:01 2011
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:59:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for a Ipad or a Ipod touch
Message-ID: <AANLkTim0S74V+zQeCsVKEKhumLNYHCTpFfePnJULbOo2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I am Roosevelt Bradley.  I am wanting a Ipad or a Ipod touch.  I
would even make a trade.  I have a BrailleNote M Power 18 Cell running
Keysoft 7.5 its in good condition.  Also I have a ASUS Net Book
laptop.  Please contact me by email or phone.

treyman19 at gmail.com

219-577-2367


-- 
Roosevelt Bradley


From empower at smart.net  Mon Jan 17 15:52:52 2011
From: empower at smart.net (Jamal Mazrui)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 09:52:52 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] 2011 updates to several, free,
	accessible software solutions
Message-ID: <auto-000186769521@mailfront2.g2host.com>

NonvisualDevelopment.org announces updates to several free, open 
source projects.  Below is a short description of each project, 
including links to its download package and user guide, followed by a 
summary of recent changes.

Nearly all of these are Windows-based programs published under the 
GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL), which  is explained at
http://gnu.org

Some programs are written in cross-platform languages, so may be 
adaptable to run on other operating systems as  well.  Anyone may use 
the programs in either binary or source code form.  I welcome 
feedback, suggestions, and code  contributions.

Jamal

----------

EdSharp -- A productive text editor, word processor, file converter, 
and code editor.
http://EmpowermentZone.com/edsetup.exe

Documentation
http://EmpowermentZone.com/EdSharp.htm

Version 3.3 adds the Format Code command, Control+4, to format source 
code of C-like languages based on file  extension.  This incorporates 
the free Artistic Style utility, which is also available separately at
http://astyle.sourceforge.net

Added an unofficial encoding, UTF-8N, meaning UTF-8 encoding without 
a Byte Order Mark (BOM).  If this code is used  in the YieldEncoding 
configuration setting (Alt+Shift+C for Configuration Options), that 
default encoding will be  assumed.  This maximizes compatibility of 
files uploaded to Linux-based web servers  -- Windows programs 
typically  add a BOM, but it is often not recognized by 
cross-platform programs with Linux origin.

A file saved on the Recent Files list (Alt+R) now includes the last 
cursor position when the file window was closed  (Control+F4 or 
Alt+F4).  This position is automatically restored the next time the 
file is opened -- unless an  explicit bookmark was set (Control+K), 
which takes precedence as the initial location in the file.

Added many more import (Control+Shift+O) and output (Alt+Shift+E) 
format options, supporting conversions among HTML  (.htm), LaTeX 
(.tex), Markdown (.md), rich text format (.rtf), and txt2tags (.tt) 
formats.  These conversions are  made possible by incorporating free 
utilities called Pandoc
http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/

and txt2tags
http://txt2tags.org

In addition, Microsoft Office 2007 formats such as .docx may be 
imported if you install a Microsoft "filter pack"  that is offered at 
the end of the EdSharp installer.

Sped up time for subsequent invocations of EdSharp after the  initial 
one. Improved the optional JAWS scripts for EdSharp so that titles of 
top-level windows are more reliably  read.

----------

Encoding -- Check and convert among various file encodings, including 
versions of ANSI and Unicode.
http://EmpowermentZone.com/Encoding.zip

Documentation
http://EmpowermentZone.com/Encoding.htm

Version 1.1 adds an unofficial encoding called ASCIIFY.  This works 
similar to the ASCII encoding in that only 7- bit characters having 
an ordinal value less than 128 are included in the resulting file.  A 
significant difference,  however, is that rather than just dropping 
each non-ASCII character, an attempt is made to substitute an 
ASCII  character or word with equivalent meaning.  For example, the 
single Unicode character for an ellipses symbol is  replaced with 
three consecutive period characters.  The Encoding.exe utility is now 
also distributed in the  WebClient subdirectory of the EdSharp and 
FileDir applications, which make use of it for detecting 
encodings  automatically, or converting among different ones.

----------

FileDir -- A file and directory manager that does much more than 
Windows Explorer.
http://EmpowermentZone.com/dirsetup.exe

Documentation
http://EmpowermentZone.com/FileDir.htm

Version 3.9 strengthens the Query Encoding command, Shift+2, so that 
it automatically detects an encoding using the  Encoding.exe utility 
previously mentioned.  Convert Encoding , Control+2, is a new command 
for converting the  current or tagged files to another encoding.  You 
can pick among nearly 100 encodings, including the 
unofficial  ASCIIFY, UTF-8B, and UTF-8N ones previously 
mentioned.  As a safety measure, original files are 
automatically  backed up to files with the same names and an 
additional .bak extension.  Microsoft Office 2007 formats are 
now  supported with the What command (Question Mark), Output to Text 
command (Shift+O), and Append Text to Clipboard  command 
(Shift+A).  This support requires installation of the Microsoft 
"filter pack" previously mentioned, which  is offered at the end of 
the FileDir installer, and also available separately at
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=60c92a37-719c-4077-b5c6-cac34f4227cc&displaylang=en&tm

----------

JAWS Script Exchange -- A program for installing 3rd party JAWS 
scripts from a zip archive, or for Creating an  executable package of 
scripts to distribute to others.
http://EmpowermentZone.com/jsxsetup.exe

Documentation
http://EmpowermentZone.com/jsx.htm

Version 3.3 finds the appropriate user script directory more 
reliably, regardless of whether JAWS is running as a  Windows service 
or user process (typically determined by whether JAWS is configured 
to run at Windows startup or  not).  A conflict is eliminated between 
the optional HomerKit scripts for Internet Explorer and the IEMax 
scripts  available separately at
http://EmpowermentZone.com/IEMax.exe
(or .zip for a manual install)

Comprehensive documentation for JAWS 12, rather than JAWS 11, is now 
included.  JSX also now incorporates the  latest, 5.4.0 version of 
Inno Setup, which is also available separately from
http://InnoSetup.org

----------

PDF2TXT -- A program for single or batch conversion of PDFs to text, 
including OCR capability.
http://EmpowermentZone.com/p2tsetup.exe

Documentation
http://EmpowermentZone.com/pdf2txt.htm

Version 2.3 supports enhanced speech messages with NVDA, in addition 
to JAWS, System Access, and Window-Eyes.  This  is done via a new 
version of the SayLine.exe utility that is part of the updated 
SayTools package mentioned below.

----------

SayTools -- A COM server and set of executable utilities for 
developers to add speech to an application, using  either the default 
screen reader or SAPI voice.
http://EmpowermentZone.com/saysetup.exe

Documentation
http://EmpowermentZone.com/SayTools.htm

Version 1.9 adds support for NVDA, a free, open source screen reader 
available from
http://nvda-project.org

----------

Let me also mention that the web site of the "fruit basket" project 
has recently been revised to take advantage of  features of the 
Drupal content management system:
http://FruitBasketDemos.org

A fruit basket program is a simple, but nontrivial program with a 
graphical user interface (GUI).   This community  project offers many 
samples that meet the same criteria using different programming 
languages, thereby allowing  programmers to compare various aspects 
when considering a development approach.

----------

I edit a set of answers to frequently asked questions about nonvisual 
development at
http://EmpowermentZone.com/NonvisualDevelopmentFAQ.htm

----------

A complete list of my open source projects (excluding screen 
reader-specific scripts) is available at
http://EmpowermentZone.com/OpenSourceProjects.htm









From nabs.president at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 17:45:39 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:45:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS January Bulletin!
Message-ID: <AANLkTim=sbeb-O_sGTbMYmA3MkHmhRf-0JJ+fBVQ4511@mail.gmail.com>

national Association of Blind Students
>From the Desk of the President
January 17, 2011
In This Bulletin:
Washington Seminar 2011!
NABS Conference Call: All About Scholarships!
Sign Up for 2011 NFB Youth Slam!
Washington Seminar 2011!
	The National Federation of the Blind will be gathering once again
this winter in Washington, D.C. to meet with our national legislators
and discuss our legislative priorities with them. As usual, just prior
to our legislative visits, the National Association of Blind Students
will be holding its annual winter meeting. This year, our NABS student
meeting will be held on Monday, January 31, 2011 from 9:00 a.m. to
3:30 p.m. The Great Gathering-In meeting, where the entire NFB
delegation assembles to discuss the upcoming legislative work, will
happen on Monday just after the conclusion of the NABS meeting, and
legislative appointments will be held Tuesday, February 1, through
Thursday, February 3.

We encourage all of you to join us for the NABS meeting, the
legislative appointments, or both. To find out who else is going from
your state or to inquire about funding to cover the cost of your trip,
please contact your NFB state affiliate president.

Stay tuned for our meeting agenda, which should be distributed by the
end of next week. Once again this year’s seminar promises some
exciting presentations and breakout sessions, including a new breakout
session devoted to state student division development. Before the
meeting, at 7:30 a.m., those of you who are attending your first-ever
Washington Seminar are invited to join us for a breakfast
meet-and-greet at Starbucks.

2. All About Scholarships!
 Hello all,

As everyone prepares to tackle a new year, getting squared away for
another semester of lost sleep due to endless studying in this cycle
we know so well
by now, your beloved membership committee has been hard at work
putting together another outstanding conference call for you. This one
should definitely perk your ears because it’s all about scholarships.
We will have
Patty Chang from the  NFB scholarship committee, Mark Lucas from
USABA, and RFB&D’s own Melissa Greenwald
will join us as well.
Be sure to call in to get your hands on some exciting and useful info.

Who: The National Association of Blind Students Membership Committee

What: Conference call about scholarships

When: Sunday January 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET

Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by the passcode 257963

Why: Because who couldn’t use more money for books, food, and survival?

As always,we hope to see you all there , but if you can’t make it, we
will be streaming and recording the call for your use at a future
date. Looking forward
to a wonderful conversation with all of you. See you there!
 Nabs Membership committee

** Don’t forget to check out the NFB 2011 national scholarship program at
www.nfb.org/scholarships

3. Sign Up for NFB 2011 Youth Slam!
>From Mary Jo Hartle, director of education, National Federation of the
Blind Jernigan Institute:
We are pleased to announce the third biennial NFB Youth Slam.  Whether
or not science or technology is “your thing,” there’s sure to be
something for everyone.  Learn the science behind building apps for
your iPod, use cutting-edge equipment and technology to determine
chemical reactions in chemistry labs, build robots, or learn how to
use nonvisual techniques to perform a real dissection.  We guarantee
this summer program will be like no other you've ever been to before!



One hundred and fifty blind and low vision students from all across
the country will be selected to attend this five-day adventure, to be
held in Baltimore, Maryland, that will engage, inspire, and encourage
the next generation of blind youth to consider careers falsely
believed to be impossible for the blind.



While staying on a college campus, students will be mentored by blind
role models during fun and challenging activities designed to build
confidence and increase science literacy.  Participants will also have
the opportunity to attend workshops on topics such as leadership,
career preparation, and blindness.  In addition, students and mentors
will take part in a variety of social events throughout the week.
Come to the NFB Youth Slam and meet other blind and low vision
students from all over the United States!



Interested students who will be age fourteen at the time of the
program, and are starting high school (ninth grade) in the fall of
2011 or are currently in high school (including those graduating in
the spring of 2011) should complete an application online. Students
need not have a strong interest in science, technology, engineering,
or math (STEM) in order to participate, enjoy, and benefit from this
extraordinary experience.



If you are interested in attending the NFB Youth Slam, either as a
student participant, or as an adult volunteer, visit
www.blindscience.org to complete an online application.  Applications
are due by March 1, 2011.



If you have any questions about the NFB Youth Slam, please visit the
Web site or contact Mary Jo Hartle, Director of Education, NFB
Jernigan Institute,

(410) 659-9314, extension 2407, or e-mail YouthSlam at nfb.org.



Join us as we continue to make history at what promises to be the best
NFB Youth slam yet!



Mary Jo T. Hartle
Please see board meeting minutes attached.
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From winy_kwany at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 18:06:32 2011
From: winy_kwany at yahoo.com (Winy Kwany)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 02:06:32 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible digital recorder
Message-ID: <115474.44632.qm@web76803.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
Is there any accessible digital recorder for the blind? I want not only to record sounds and music, but I also want to be able to know the parameters such as the peak, frequency and anything related to it, so I can get the most optimum result. I know that Sonar, CT, JAWS and PC can do it and I am using it. but Any handy digital recorder out there? Ideas?
I've heard about Olympus products. Would someone tell me how accessible is it? Does it allow blind users to know the voice frequency, parameters and other things--not only basic functions--to record?
I look forward to hearing from you soon. Any help will be highly appreciated. Many thanks.
Winy.



      

From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 18:21:15 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:21:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
Message-ID: <54247931D6BE4918A6E05F572B97E9B0@Rufus>

The article below recently went viral.  If you haven't read it, I'd like you
to read it carefully and than share your thoughts.  You may not see the
direct link between it and a discussion of blindness right away, but one
thing that occurred to me is that if my parents had employed even half of
the techniques traditional Chinese parents are exercising, I might be even
more successful than even I can imagine.  Anyway, I'll come back with
commentary later, but as we go about searching for the root of what it is
that keeps the unemployment rate among the blind so high, perhaps parenting
is one good place to start, since most if not all of us could agree that our
own family is sometimes our greatest obstacle to independence.  But, enough
of me.  Here's the article:

Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

By AMY CHUA 

A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically
successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math
whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether
they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are
some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:

Erin Patrice O'Brien for The Wall Street Journal 
Amy Chua with her daughters, Louisa and Sophia, at their home in New Haven,
Conn.



. attend a sleepover

. have a playdate

. be in a school play

. complain about not being in a school play

. watch TV or play computer games

. choose their own extracurricular activities

. get any grade less than an A

. not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

. play any instrument other than the piano or violin

. not play the piano or violin.

I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian,
Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know
some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are
not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term
"Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties. 

Ideas Market 
The Tiger Mother Responds to Readers 

Ms. Chua answers questions from Journal readers who wrote in to the Ideas
Market blog.

All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they
usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western
friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their
instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the
first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.

 
When it comes to parenting, the Chinese seem to produce children who display
academic excellence, musical mastery and professional success - or so the
stereotype goes. WSJ's Christina Tsuei speaks to two moms raised by Chinese
immigrants who share what it was like growing up and how they hope to raise
their children.

More Parenting Videos
Teaching Math to Spark Creative Thinking 

Can Bilingualism Make Preschoolers Smarter? 

Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of
studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between
Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50
Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the
Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for
children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By
contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the
vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children
can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful
parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a
problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that
compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as
long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By
contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at
it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own
never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their
preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents
because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning,
which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the
Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice,
practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in
America. Once a child starts to excel at something-whether it's math, piano,
pitching or ballet-he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This
builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn
makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.

Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once
when I was young-maybe more than once-when I was extremely disrespectful to
my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien
dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I
had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew
exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless
or feel like a piece of garbage.

As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in
English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned
that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One
guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave
early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the
remaining guests.

The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem
unimaginable-even legally actionable-to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say
to their daughters, "Hey fatty-lose some weight." By contrast, Western
parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and
never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for
eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western
father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly
competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.) 

Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can
only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're
lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western
parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about
achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed
about how their kids turned out.

I've thought long and hard about how Chinese parents can get away with what
they do. I think there are three big differences between the Chinese and
Western parental mind-sets.

First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their
children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if
they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children
about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or
at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their
children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not
fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.

For example, if a child comes home with an A-minus on a test, a Western
parent will most likely praise the child. The Chinese mother will gasp in
horror and ask what went wrong. If the child comes home with a B on the
test, some Western parents will still praise the child. Other Western
parents will sit their child down and express disapproval, but they will be
careful not to make their child feel inadequate or insecure, and they will
not call their child "stupid," "worthless" or "a disgrace." Privately, the
Western parents may worry that their child does not test well or have
aptitude in the subject or that there is something wrong with the curriculum
and possibly the whole school. If the child's grades do not improve, they
may eventually schedule a meeting with the school principal to challenge the
way the subject is being taught or to call into question the teacher's
credentials.

If a Chinese child gets a B-which would never happen-there would first be a
screaming, hair-tearing explosion. The devastated Chinese mother would then
get dozens, maybe hundreds of practice tests and work through them with her
child for as long as it takes to get the grade up to an A. 

Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child
can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes
it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to
substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child.
The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take
the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there
is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the
home.)

Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The
reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of
Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and
done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in
the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training,
interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that
Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying
them and making them proud. 

By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children
being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has
the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to
me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their
kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't
owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This
strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.

Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their
children and therefore override all of their children's own desires and
preferences. That's why Chinese daughters can't have boyfriends in high
school and why Chinese kids can't go to sleepaway camp. It's also why no
Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, "I got a part in the school
play! I'm Villager Number Six. I'll have to stay after school for rehearsal
every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I'll also need a ride on weekends." God
help any Chinese kid who tried that one.

Don't get me wrong: It's not that Chinese parents don't care about their
children. Just the opposite. They would give up anything for their children.
It's just an entirely different parenting model.

In China, Not All Practice Tough Love 
The Juggle: Are U.S. Parents Too Soft? 
Here's a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still
playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little
White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really
cute-you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with
its master-but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the
two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.

Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of
her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands
together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart.
Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she
was giving up and stomped off.

"Get back to the piano now," I ordered.

"You can't make me."

"Oh yes, I can."

Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She
grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back
together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be
destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd
donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The
Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you
were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her
with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday
parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I
told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was
secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly,
self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu-which I wasn't even
doing, I was just motivating her-and that he didn't think threatening Lulu
was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the
technique-perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet-had I considered that
possibility? 

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their
special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in
their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger.
I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one
hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and
take them to Yankees games."

I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic
I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I
wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The
house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed
to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together-her
right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing-just like
that.

Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it
tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still
the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.

"Mommy, look-it's easy!" After that, she wanted to play the piece over and
over and wouldn't leave the piano. That night, she came to sleep in my bed,
and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up. When she performed "The
Little White Donkey" at a recital a few weeks later, parents came up to me
and said, "What a perfect piece for Lulu-it's so spunky and so her."

Even Jed gave me credit for that one. Western parents worry a lot about
their children's self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you
can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip
side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can
do something you thought you couldn't.

There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as
scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids' true
interests. For their part, many Chinese secretly believe that they care more
about their children and are willing to sacrifice much more for them than
Westerners, who seem perfectly content to let their children turn out badly.
I think it's a misunderstanding on both sides. All decent parents want to do
what's best for their children. The Chinese just have a totally different
idea of how to do that.

Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging
them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing
positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese
believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for
the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with
skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.

-Amy Chua is a professor at Yale Law School and author of "Day of Empire"
and "World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred
and Global Instability." This essay is excerpted from "Battle Hymn of the
Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua, to be published Tuesday by the Penguin Press, a
member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright C 2011 by Amy Chua.



From jenny at hims-inc.com  Mon Jan 17 19:42:34 2011
From: jenny at hims-inc.com (Jenny Axler)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:42:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [HIMS-News] Announcing BookSense version 2.21.
Message-ID: <auto-000186815760@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Hello all,

Below you will find links and instructions for downloading the update 
to the 2.2 release. (v2.21)This software update fixes the following 
problems with the 2.2 upgrade:
Problem of incomplete upgrade downloads, resulting in empty/invalid zip files.
Problem of distortion when speeding up audio.
Problem of recognizing Serotek key when connected to PC.
problem of crashing when deleting files.

Please note that there are 3 sets of instructions below:
1: Upgrading Booksense standard.
2: upgrading BookSense XT from the current 2.2 release.
3: Upgrading BookSense XT from 2.1 or earlier.
Please make sure to read and follow the instructions and links for 
your particular product and situation as all installations are not the same.


1: Upgrading BookSense standard.
Please download the upgrade from the following link:
<http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/BookSense_Eng_v221_110113.zip>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/BookSense_Eng_v221_110113.zip 

Please follow these instructions to upgrade your BookSense.

1. Download the zip file containing the firmware from the link above 
to your PC.

2. Extract the firmware file on your PC; please be sure it contains a 
file with a .bin extension.

3. Copy the file from your PC and paste it into the root of your SD card.

* Please make sure the .bin file , is placed in the root of the SD card.

4. Insert the SD card into the BookSense.

5. Connect the AC adaptor to the BookSense.

6. Power on the BookSense.

7. Press the MENU button and navigate to "Advanced options" using the 
Up or Down arrow.

8. Press the Right arrow to open the "Advanced options", you are 
placed on the "Upgrade firmware" option.

9. Press the Right arrow. You are asked "Do you want to upgrade? Yes".

10. Press the MENU or the OK button and the system will upgrade and reboot.

            * When the upgrade is complete, please check your system 
information to ensure that you are running firmware 2.21.



---------2: Upgrading BookSense XT from 2.2:

Please note that XT users running version 2.2 return to normal 
upgrade procedure for this update. XT users running 2.1 or earlier 
must follow instructions in section 3 below.

XT users running 2.2, Please download upgrade file from the following link:

<http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/BookSenseXT_Eng_v221_From_V22_110113.zip>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/BookSenseXT_Eng_v221_From_V22_110113.zip 
--------------
Upgrade steps are the same as are used to upgrade Booksense standard. 
For your convenience, they are copied here:

1. Download the zip file containing the firmware from the link above 
to your PC.

2. Extract the firmware file on your PC; please be sure it contains a 
file with a .bin extension.

3. Copy the file from your PC and paste it into the root of your SD card.

* Please make sure the .bin file , is placed in the root of the SD card.

4. Insert the SD card into the BookSense.

5. Connect the AC adaptor to the BookSense.

6. Power on the BookSense.

7. Press the MENU button and navigate to "Advanced options" using the 
Up or Down arrow.

8. Press the Right arrow to open the "Advanced options", you are 
placed on the "Upgrade firmware" option.

9. Press the Right arrow. You are asked "Do you want to upgrade? Yes".

10. Press the MENU or the OK button and the system will upgrade and reboot.

            * When the upgrade is complete, please check your system 
information to ensure that you are running firmware 2.21.


3: Upgrading BookSense XT from 2.1 or earlier.
Caution: only for BookSense XT users: and only for those who have not 
yet upgraded to 2.2.
please note: this procedure is very different than those above. pleas 
read the instructions in their entirety before proceeding with the upgrade.
please download upgrade file from the following link:
<http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/BookSenseXT_Eng_v221_From_V21_110113.zip>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/BookSenseXT_Eng_v221_From_V21_110113.zip 


Please note the following:

1. Before upgrading your BookSense, please back up all the data from 
your flashdisk to your PC, an SD card, or USB memory stick as a 
format of the Flashdisk is required to complete the upgrade process, 
and the format will erase all your data.

2. Please note, the Upgrade procedure must be performed twice--this 
is not a misprint. Once the first upgrade is complete, you must 
repeat the upgrade process again for the firmware to install fully.

3. The Upgrade will take about 5 minutes. When the upgrade is 
complete, the BookSense XT will restart. So please do not press the 
reset button nor disconnect the AC adaptor during the upgrade process.

4. After you go through the upgrade process twice, you must format 
the flashdisk. (To do this, navigate to Format storage device under 
the global options Menu, and choose "Format Flashdisk")

Note: keys for NLS, RFB&D and Serotek should remain intact as these 
are installed in a protected area of the BookSense not affected by 
the flashdisk format. If you use Audible.com, please make sure to 
back up the Audible folder before formatting the flashdisk, and 
restore it once the format is complete.



Please follow the below instructions to upgrade your BookSense XT.

1. Download the zip file containing the firmware from the link above 
to your PC.

2. Extract the firmware file on your PC; please be sure it contains 5 
things: a folder and 4 files.

3. Copy the 5 things, a folder and 4 files, from your PC and paste 
them into the root of your SD card.

* Please make sure that all the contents, a folder and 4 files, are 
placed in the root of the SD card.

4. Insert the SD card into the BookSense XT.

5. Connect the AC adaptor to the BookSense XT.

6. Power on the BookSense XT.

7. Press the MENU button and navigate to "Advanced options" using the 
Up or Down arrow.

8. Press the Right arrow to open the "Advanced options", you are 
placed on the "Upgrade firmware" option.

9. Press the Right arrow. You are asked "Do you want to upgrade? Yes".

10. Press the MENU or the OK button and the system will reboot and 
start upgrading.

11. When the 1st upgrade is complete, repeat the above steps 7 to 10. 
Please note: the BookSense will inform you that you are already 
running the firmware found on the SD card and ask if you wish to 
upgrade anyway. Please press the OK key to continue with the upgrade.

12. When the 1st and 2nd upgrades are complete, you must format the 
flashdisk. To do this, press the Menu key and navigate to Global 
options using the Up or Down Arrow.

13. Press the Right Arrow to open, and use the Up or Down Arrow to 
navigate to "format Storage Device".

14. You are placed on the "format Flashdisk?" option. Press the Menu 
or OK key.

15. You are prompted that this will erase all data, and asked if you 
are sure. Press the OK key for each prompt.



* When the upgrade is complete, please check your system information 
to ensure that you are running firmware 2.2.



Jenny Axler
Technical Support Specialist
HIMS, Inc.
4616 West Howard Lane, Suite 960
Austin, Texas 78728
Phone: 512-837-2000
email: Jenny at hims-inc.com
Web: www.hims-inc.com

From brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu  Mon Jan 17 20:04:43 2011
From: brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu (Brian Miller)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:04:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [nfb-talk] Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
In-Reply-To: <54247931D6BE4918A6E05F572B97E9B0@Rufus>
References: <54247931D6BE4918A6E05F572B97E9B0@Rufus>
Message-ID: <D130BC9040104C1AA7A573C7A035C16A@BrianPC>

Hi Joe,
An interesting read, but  like most articles that go viral on the internet,
this one is 1 part true and 99 parts junk.  I think this is mostly
conservative palaver disguised as cross-cultural story time.  This is just a
warmed over version of the old argument about how if we were only tougher on
our children we wouldn't have this generation of feckless naire-do-well
children on our hands.  The old tough love solves all problem notion feels
good because it is simple and taps into our anxiety centers by trying to
show us how other cultures do it right while we're falling apart because of
our adoption of namby-pamby wimpy liberal parenting styles.  

The baby-boomer generation adopted a more "self-esteem" oriented approach to
parenting because most of that generation agreed that the hard-assed
brass-knuckles approach that they experienced was a rather miserable affair,
and resulted in kids with as least as many hang-ups as our current
generation enjoys, diagnosed or otherwise.  

I hardly think that screaming at our children that they are garbage if they
get anything less than an A is the anecdote to our current state of
ambivalence about how to parent.  

And is it even statistically possible for every child to get all A's in
school?  Isn't that where we are now with grade inflation?

I do agree, however, that we've lost the appreciation for the benefits of
practice, even when it isn't fun, because learning to do something well
results in fun in the guise of doing something well.  Who was it that said,
"The more I practice, the luckier I get?"  Whoever it was, they were right.
The notion of innate talent is a fraud; people who are superb at what they
do are superb because they dedicate countless hours of practice and focused
attention to that task they most wish to perfect.  

I think I see where you are going with this with respect to blindness,
however, and I appreciate the dialog that this article will most likely
engender.

Best,

Brian Miller


-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 1:21 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Cc: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
Subject: [nfb-talk] Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

The article below recently went viral.  If you haven't read it, I'd like you
to read it carefully and than share your thoughts.  You may not see the
direct link between it and a discussion of blindness right away, but one
thing that occurred to me is that if my parents had employed even half of
the techniques traditional Chinese parents are exercising, I might be even
more successful than even I can imagine.  Anyway, I'll come back with
commentary later, but as we go about searching for the root of what it is
that keeps the unemployment rate among the blind so high, perhaps parenting
is one good place to start, since most if not all of us could agree that our
own family is sometimes our greatest obstacle to independence.  But, enough
of me.  Here's the article:

Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

By AMY CHUA

A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically
successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math
whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether
they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are
some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:

Erin Patrice O'Brien for The Wall Street Journal Amy Chua with her
daughters, Louisa and Sophia, at their home in New Haven, Conn.



. attend a sleepover

. have a playdate

. be in a school play

. complain about not being in a school play

. watch TV or play computer games

. choose their own extracurricular activities

. get any grade less than an A

. not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

. play any instrument other than the piano or violin

. not play the piano or violin.

I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian,
Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know
some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are
not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term
"Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties.

Ideas Market
The Tiger Mother Responds to Readers

Ms. Chua answers questions from Journal readers who wrote in to the Ideas
Market blog.

All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they
usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western
friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their
instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the
first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.


When it comes to parenting, the Chinese seem to produce children who display
academic excellence, musical mastery and professional success - or so the
stereotype goes. WSJ's Christina Tsuei speaks to two moms raised by Chinese
immigrants who share what it was like growing up and how they hope to raise
their children.

More Parenting Videos
Teaching Math to Spark Creative Thinking

Can Bilingualism Make Preschoolers Smarter?

Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of
studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between
Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50
Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the
Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for
children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By
contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the
vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children
can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful
parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a
problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that
compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as
long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By
contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at
it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own
never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their
preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents
because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning,
which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the
Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice,
practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in
America. Once a child starts to excel at something-whether it's math, piano,
pitching or ballet-he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This
builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn
makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.

Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once
when I was young-maybe more than once-when I was extremely disrespectful to
my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien
dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I
had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew
exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless
or feel like a piece of garbage.

As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in
English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned
that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One
guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave
early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the
remaining guests.

The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem
unimaginable-even legally actionable-to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say
to their daughters, "Hey fatty-lose some weight." By contrast, Western
parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and
never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for
eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western
father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly
competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.)

Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can
only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're
lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western
parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about
achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed
about how their kids turned out.

I've thought long and hard about how Chinese parents can get away with what
they do. I think there are three big differences between the Chinese and
Western parental mind-sets.

First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their
children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if
they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children
about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or
at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their
children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not
fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.

For example, if a child comes home with an A-minus on a test, a Western
parent will most likely praise the child. The Chinese mother will gasp in
horror and ask what went wrong. If the child comes home with a B on the
test, some Western parents will still praise the child. Other Western
parents will sit their child down and express disapproval, but they will be
careful not to make their child feel inadequate or insecure, and they will
not call their child "stupid," "worthless" or "a disgrace." Privately, the
Western parents may worry that their child does not test well or have
aptitude in the subject or that there is something wrong with the curriculum
and possibly the whole school. If the child's grades do not improve, they
may eventually schedule a meeting with the school principal to challenge the
way the subject is being taught or to call into question the teacher's
credentials.

If a Chinese child gets a B-which would never happen-there would first be a
screaming, hair-tearing explosion. The devastated Chinese mother would then
get dozens, maybe hundreds of practice tests and work through them with her
child for as long as it takes to get the grade up to an A.

Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child
can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes
it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to
substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child.
The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take
the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there
is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the
home.)

Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The
reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of
Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and
done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in
the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training,
interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that
Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying
them and making them proud.

By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children
being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has
the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to
me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their
kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't
owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This
strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.

Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their
children and therefore override all of their children's own desires and
preferences. That's why Chinese daughters can't have boyfriends in high
school and why Chinese kids can't go to sleepaway camp. It's also why no
Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, "I got a part in the school
play! I'm Villager Number Six. I'll have to stay after school for rehearsal
every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I'll also need a ride on weekends." God
help any Chinese kid who tried that one.

Don't get me wrong: It's not that Chinese parents don't care about their
children. Just the opposite. They would give up anything for their children.
It's just an entirely different parenting model.

In China, Not All Practice Tough Love
The Juggle: Are U.S. Parents Too Soft?
Here's a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still
playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little
White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really
cute-you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with
its master-but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the
two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.

Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of
her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands
together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart.
Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she
was giving up and stomped off.

"Get back to the piano now," I ordered.

"You can't make me."

"Oh yes, I can."

Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She
grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back
together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be
destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd
donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The
Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you
were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her
with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday
parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I
told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was
secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly,
self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu-which I wasn't even
doing, I was just motivating her-and that he didn't think threatening Lulu
was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the
technique-perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet-had I considered that
possibility?

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their
special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in
their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger.
I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one
hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and
take them to Yankees games."

I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic
I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I
wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The
house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed
to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together-her
right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing-just like
that.

Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it
tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still
the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.

"Mommy, look-it's easy!" After that, she wanted to play the piece over and
over and wouldn't leave the piano. That night, she came to sleep in my bed,
and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up. When she performed "The
Little White Donkey" at a recital a few weeks later, parents came up to me
and said, "What a perfect piece for Lulu-it's so spunky and so her."

Even Jed gave me credit for that one. Western parents worry a lot about
their children's self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you
can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip
side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can
do something you thought you couldn't.

There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as
scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids' true
interests. For their part, many Chinese secretly believe that they care more
about their children and are willing to sacrifice much more for them than
Westerners, who seem perfectly content to let their children turn out badly.
I think it's a misunderstanding on both sides. All decent parents want to do
what's best for their children. The Chinese just have a totally different
idea of how to do that.

Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging
them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing
positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese
believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for
the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with
skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.

-Amy Chua is a professor at Yale Law School and author of "Day of Empire"
and "World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred
and Global Instability." This essay is excerpted from "Battle Hymn of the
Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua, to be published Tuesday by the Penguin Press, a
member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright C 2011 by Amy Chua.


_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 20:37:35 2011
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:37:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] [nfb-talk] Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
In-Reply-To: <D130BC9040104C1AA7A573C7A035C16A@BrianPC>
References: <54247931D6BE4918A6E05F572B97E9B0@Rufus>
	<D130BC9040104C1AA7A573C7A035C16A@BrianPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim2_pzFDk-vrHVmybU_m58ODWSvJQ3i08VTjsh0@mail.gmail.com>

Joe,
  I admit to being very, very intrigued.  Especially because I always
thought my parents were handing out cruel and unusual punishment for
grounding me when I didn't turn in an assignment, or making me
practice piano for a half hour a day.  (I won on both those fronts, by
the way, but I know I'd probably be a lot more academicly motivated
and musicly talented right now if I hadn't)  That said...I take this
with a rather large grain of salt.  But I don't think your purpose
here has anything to do with quibbling over ethnic stereotypes...so
I'll digress on that front.
  I think there's quite a bit of truth to the idea that Americanized
parents don't push their children as hard as they were pushed.  I got
plenty of praise for a B in college-level algebra...and I suppose I
could've gotten an A if I devoted all my free time to the class.  But
instead I went for our school Mock Trial team, and got plenty of
experience that way, so it all worked out.  But...I'm kinda wandering,
so I'll get to the main problem we face as blind folks.  Where most
children aren't expected to achieve perfection in school, we're
expected to achieve even less...generally speaking.  And...over time,
we can come to expect less out of ourselves.  Not to say my parents
didn't push me...they did.  And...no doubt, in their minds, they were
pushing me as hard as they thought I could go.  But now I know I
could've done better...my 3.6 in high school could've easily been a
3.8 or 3.9, had I been pressured a little more I have no doubt my ACT
score could've been in the low thirties instead of my still
respectable 29.  So...yes, as blind people I think it's probably a
good idea to set our own personal expectations higher (even just a
little bit higher) than the expectations of our parents.  I'm of
course only speaking generally, maybe some of our parents want us to
get 4.0 grades and have no life outside the classroom...and if you
don't want that I think you're perfectly fine with a 3.8 or so.  But,
as a general rule, people expect less out of us and I feel like it
becomes a real problem when we start to expect that for ourselves.
  I'm sorry for the digression, it probably wasn't really all that
substantive...but there you have it.  I'm looking forward to reading
everyone's opinions...I expect my inbox to be full of them.  And I
think it's appropriate, especially on this holiday, to remind
ourselves that we can transcend the barriers we think are unbreakable,
we can eclipse the hopes others have for us...and we can make
ourselves meet our own level of excellence.  It just takes a hell of a
lot of work, grit, and hours and hours of determined, focused action.
  Have a great holiday,
Kirt

On 1/17/11, Brian Miller <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu> wrote:
> Hi Joe,
> An interesting read, but  like most articles that go viral on the internet,
> this one is 1 part true and 99 parts junk.  I think this is mostly
> conservative palaver disguised as cross-cultural story time.  This is just a
> warmed over version of the old argument about how if we were only tougher on
> our children we wouldn't have this generation of feckless naire-do-well
> children on our hands.  The old tough love solves all problem notion feels
> good because it is simple and taps into our anxiety centers by trying to
> show us how other cultures do it right while we're falling apart because of
> our adoption of namby-pamby wimpy liberal parenting styles.
>
> The baby-boomer generation adopted a more "self-esteem" oriented approach to
> parenting because most of that generation agreed that the hard-assed
> brass-knuckles approach that they experienced was a rather miserable affair,
> and resulted in kids with as least as many hang-ups as our current
> generation enjoys, diagnosed or otherwise.
>
> I hardly think that screaming at our children that they are garbage if they
> get anything less than an A is the anecdote to our current state of
> ambivalence about how to parent.
>
> And is it even statistically possible for every child to get all A's in
> school?  Isn't that where we are now with grade inflation?
>
> I do agree, however, that we've lost the appreciation for the benefits of
> practice, even when it isn't fun, because learning to do something well
> results in fun in the guise of doing something well.  Who was it that said,
> "The more I practice, the luckier I get?"  Whoever it was, they were right.
> The notion of innate talent is a fraud; people who are superb at what they
> do are superb because they dedicate countless hours of practice and focused
> attention to that task they most wish to perfect.
>
> I think I see where you are going with this with respect to blindness,
> however, and I appreciate the dialog that this article will most likely
> engender.
>
> Best,
>
> Brian Miller
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Joe Orozco
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 1:21 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Cc: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
>
> The article below recently went viral.  If you haven't read it, I'd like you
> to read it carefully and than share your thoughts.  You may not see the
> direct link between it and a discussion of blindness right away, but one
> thing that occurred to me is that if my parents had employed even half of
> the techniques traditional Chinese parents are exercising, I might be even
> more successful than even I can imagine.  Anyway, I'll come back with
> commentary later, but as we go about searching for the root of what it is
> that keeps the unemployment rate among the blind so high, perhaps parenting
> is one good place to start, since most if not all of us could agree that our
> own family is sometimes our greatest obstacle to independence.  But, enough
> of me.  Here's the article:
>
> Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
>
> By AMY CHUA
>
> A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically
> successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math
> whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether
> they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are
> some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:
>
> Erin Patrice O'Brien for The Wall Street Journal Amy Chua with her
> daughters, Louisa and Sophia, at their home in New Haven, Conn.
>
>
>
> . attend a sleepover
>
> . have a playdate
>
> . be in a school play
>
> . complain about not being in a school play
>
> . watch TV or play computer games
>
> . choose their own extracurricular activities
>
> . get any grade less than an A
>
> . not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama
>
> . play any instrument other than the piano or violin
>
> . not play the piano or violin.
>
> I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian,
> Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know
> some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are
> not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term
> "Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties.
>
> Ideas Market
> The Tiger Mother Responds to Readers
>
> Ms. Chua answers questions from Journal readers who wrote in to the Ideas
> Market blog.
>
> All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they
> usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western
> friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their
> instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the
> first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.
>
>
> When it comes to parenting, the Chinese seem to produce children who display
> academic excellence, musical mastery and professional success - or so the
> stereotype goes. WSJ's Christina Tsuei speaks to two moms raised by Chinese
> immigrants who share what it was like growing up and how they hope to raise
> their children.
>
> More Parenting Videos
> Teaching Math to Spark Creative Thinking
>
> Can Bilingualism Make Preschoolers Smarter?
>
> Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of
> studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between
> Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50
> Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the
> Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for
> children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By
> contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the
> vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children
> can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful
> parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a
> problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that
> compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as
> long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By
> contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.
>
> What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at
> it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own
> never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their
> preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents
> because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning,
> which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the
> Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice,
> practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in
> America. Once a child starts to excel at something-whether it's math, piano,
> pitching or ballet-he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This
> builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn
> makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.
>
> Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once
> when I was young-maybe more than once-when I was extremely disrespectful to
> my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien
> dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I
> had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew
> exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless
> or feel like a piece of garbage.
>
> As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in
> English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned
> that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One
> guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave
> early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the
> remaining guests.
>
> The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem
> unimaginable-even legally actionable-to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say
> to their daughters, "Hey fatty-lose some weight." By contrast, Western
> parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and
> never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for
> eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western
> father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly
> competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.)
>
> Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can
> only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're
> lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western
> parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about
> achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed
> about how their kids turned out.
>
> I've thought long and hard about how Chinese parents can get away with what
> they do. I think there are three big differences between the Chinese and
> Western parental mind-sets.
>
> First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their
> children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if
> they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children
> about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or
> at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their
> children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not
> fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.
>
> For example, if a child comes home with an A-minus on a test, a Western
> parent will most likely praise the child. The Chinese mother will gasp in
> horror and ask what went wrong. If the child comes home with a B on the
> test, some Western parents will still praise the child. Other Western
> parents will sit their child down and express disapproval, but they will be
> careful not to make their child feel inadequate or insecure, and they will
> not call their child "stupid," "worthless" or "a disgrace." Privately, the
> Western parents may worry that their child does not test well or have
> aptitude in the subject or that there is something wrong with the curriculum
> and possibly the whole school. If the child's grades do not improve, they
> may eventually schedule a meeting with the school principal to challenge the
> way the subject is being taught or to call into question the teacher's
> credentials.
>
> If a Chinese child gets a B-which would never happen-there would first be a
> screaming, hair-tearing explosion. The devastated Chinese mother would then
> get dozens, maybe hundreds of practice tests and work through them with her
> child for as long as it takes to get the grade up to an A.
>
> Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child
> can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes
> it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to
> substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child.
> The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take
> the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there
> is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the
> home.)
>
> Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The
> reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of
> Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and
> done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in
> the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training,
> interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that
> Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying
> them and making them proud.
>
> By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children
> being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has
> the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to
> me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their
> kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't
> owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This
> strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.
>
> Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their
> children and therefore override all of their children's own desires and
> preferences. That's why Chinese daughters can't have boyfriends in high
> school and why Chinese kids can't go to sleepaway camp. It's also why no
> Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, "I got a part in the school
> play! I'm Villager Number Six. I'll have to stay after school for rehearsal
> every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I'll also need a ride on weekends." God
> help any Chinese kid who tried that one.
>
> Don't get me wrong: It's not that Chinese parents don't care about their
> children. Just the opposite. They would give up anything for their children.
> It's just an entirely different parenting model.
>
> In China, Not All Practice Tough Love
> The Juggle: Are U.S. Parents Too Soft?
> Here's a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still
> playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little
> White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really
> cute-you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with
> its master-but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the
> two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.
>
> Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of
> her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands
> together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart.
> Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she
> was giving up and stomped off.
>
> "Get back to the piano now," I ordered.
>
> "You can't make me."
>
> "Oh yes, I can."
>
> Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She
> grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back
> together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be
> destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd
> donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The
> Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you
> were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her
> with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday
> parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I
> told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was
> secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly,
> self-indulgent and pathetic.
>
> Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu-which I wasn't even
> doing, I was just motivating her-and that he didn't think threatening Lulu
> was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the
> technique-perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet-had I considered that
> possibility?
>
> "You just don't believe in her," I accused.
>
> "That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."
>
> "Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."
>
> "But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.
>
> "Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their
> special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in
> their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger.
> I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one
> hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and
> take them to Yankees games."
>
> I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic
> I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I
> wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The
> house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed
> to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.
>
> Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together-her
> right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing-just like
> that.
>
> Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it
> tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still
> the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.
>
> "Mommy, look-it's easy!" After that, she wanted to play the piece over and
> over and wouldn't leave the piano. That night, she came to sleep in my bed,
> and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up. When she performed "The
> Little White Donkey" at a recital a few weeks later, parents came up to me
> and said, "What a perfect piece for Lulu-it's so spunky and so her."
>
> Even Jed gave me credit for that one. Western parents worry a lot about
> their children's self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you
> can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip
> side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can
> do something you thought you couldn't.
>
> There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as
> scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids' true
> interests. For their part, many Chinese secretly believe that they care more
> about their children and are willing to sacrifice much more for them than
> Westerners, who seem perfectly content to let their children turn out badly.
> I think it's a misunderstanding on both sides. All decent parents want to do
> what's best for their children. The Chinese just have a totally different
> idea of how to do that.
>
> Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging
> them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing
> positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese
> believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for
> the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with
> skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.
>
> -Amy Chua is a professor at Yale Law School and author of "Day of Empire"
> and "World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred
> and Global Instability." This essay is excerpted from "Battle Hymn of the
> Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua, to be published Tuesday by the Penguin Press, a
> member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright C 2011 by Amy Chua.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 21:37:12 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:37:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim2_pzFDk-vrHVmybU_m58ODWSvJQ3i08VTjsh0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <54247931D6BE4918A6E05F572B97E9B0@Rufus><D130BC9040104C1AA7A573C7A035C16A@BrianPC>
	<AANLkTim2_pzFDk-vrHVmybU_m58ODWSvJQ3i08VTjsh0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9AC01C3D412C465FAC790F3B766CD043@Rufus>

Kirt,

Yours is exactly the kind of feedback I'm hoping we'll all explore.  It's
not the fact that the subject of the article is Chinese parents.  I think my
hope is that we'll investigate the sources that yield results.  I would
never call my future children "garbage" nor would I accuse them of being
"fatty," but I do hope to elevate my standards so that they can ultimately
be better than I am and thereby make a greater contribution to their world.

What I find troubling is that for every one successful blind person,
statistics say there are three who are not.  There are a myriad of reasons
we could cite for why this is the case, but I genuinely believe that a lot
of it begins at home.  On one level, we have the first generation of sighted
parents who do not feel compelled to believe in their blind children, and so
how can the blind children themselves believe they can ever amount to
anything?  Then there is the second generation of blind parents who for
whatever reason are not successful and pass the same dismal expectations on
to their children.

I know there is much to be changed in the educational system.  I also know
there is much to be gained in technology.  However, there is a certain point
where I believe parental guidance is absolutely crucial to inspiring the
best in our children to take full advantage of a reformed educational system
and a fully accessible technology landscape, neither of which is worth
anything if the consumer does not use them to make herself shine.  I
genuinely believe that a critical factor in success is confidence.

At least for me, I would have benefited the most from my parents driving me
a little harder, for the confidence to originate from their corner.  My
parents instead chose to step aside and allow my teachers to direct the
course of my education.  I was fortunate that in high school I had the rare
privilege of an excellent VI teacher who took very little crap from me and
my blindness.  When I claimed I needed to go to the state school for the
blind for math classes, she said she would teach me math herself if that's
what it took, and she did.  I passed the classes because of her.  Not every
student out there is so fortunate.

Now, I am by no means claiming my parents had it all wrong.  My mom made me
do chores and disciplined me the same as my siblings.  I was never
discouraged from pursuing whatever activities I wanted, but I think their
confidence in me was somewhat artificial.  For example, even though they
began sending me away to summer camps and weekend retreats as early as eight
years old, they are still astonished by my ability to navigate the subway
system here in DC as an adult.

How much of it comes down to giving the blind child an extra nudge?  How
much of it is cultural?  In the Hispanic culture, blind people, at least
from my experience, are seen as charity cases or as supremely brilliant.
Damned if I didn't go and disappoint on both counts. LOL  I don't have all
the answers, but I hope people will chime in.  Hopefully we can come up with
some answers and play a role in educating parents on what is absolutely
needed of them to expand the hope for future generations.

Regards,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 



From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 18 00:44:43 2011
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Hai Nguyen)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:44:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ACCESSIBLE WORLD TEK TALK PRESENTS MICHAEL MAY TO DISCUSS
	THE CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW, LAS VEGAS, JAN. 17, 2011
References: <2AC584AD1F214BDBB929067BB50FEBC0@D42PWFG1>
Message-ID: <B7A0056B-DD30-412C-89B1-1316E356983A@sbcglobal.net>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Bob Acosta" <boacosta at pacbell.net>
> Date: January 17, 2011 9:44:58 AM CST
> To: "Bob Acosta" <boacosta at pacbell.net>
> Subject: [gps-talkusers] Fw: ACCESSIBLE WORLD TEK TALK PRESENTS MICHAEL MAY TO DISCUSS THE CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW, LAS VEGAS, JAN. 17, 2011
> Reply-To: gps-talkusers at freelists.org
> 
>     ACCESSIBLE WORLD TEK TALK PRESENTS MICHAEL MAY TO DISCUSS THE CONSUMER ELECTRONICS SHOW, LAS VEGAS, JAN. 17, 2011
> 
> News Wire:
> 
> For many years, Michael May produced an audio summary of the Consumer Electronics show for Playback Magazine. For the second year in a row, Mike is giving us a verbal tour of his  CES highlights on TechTalk.
> 
> We have all heard lots about CES 2011 in the mainstream media but Mike May provides the perspective of a blind technologist wandering the show floor. Here about the obvious and the unusual, headphones and robots, iPhone apps and late night concerts.
> 
> Please join Mike May from the Sendero Group on Tek Talk.
> 
> Presenter: Michael May
> E-Mail: mikemay at senderogroup.com
> 
> Date: Monday January 17, 2011,
> 
> Time: 5:00 PM PST, 6:00 PM MST, 7:00 PM CST,  8:00 PM EST  
>           and elsewhere in the world Tuesday 01:00 GMT
>  
> Approximately 15 minutes prior to the event start time; go to The Pat Price Tek Talk Training Room at:
>  
> http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2
>  
> Or, alternatively.
>  
> Select The Pat Price Tek Talk Training Room at: www.accessibleworld.org
> Enter your first and last names on the sign-in screen.
>  
> All Tek Talk training events are recorded so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the Tek Talk archives on our website atwww.accessibleworld.org
>  
> If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available on every entry screen to the Accessible World online rooms.
>  
> All online interactive programs are free of charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience or text chat with the attendees. To speak to us, hold down the control key and talk; then let up to listen. 
>  
> Accessible World uses News Wires, like this one, to inform people of the topic and times for the many Discussion Groups on Accessible World. The lists are announce only to keep the traffic to a minimum.
> 
> You can join the Accessible World Announce List, the Tek Talk Announce List or the Sports Talk Announce List by completing the form at: www.accessibleworld.org/mailinglists
>  
> Accessible World also provides a Tek Talk Discussion List. This list is intended to give you an opportunity to ask computer related questions, suggest topics to be used in the weekly Monday training programs, or just to interact with others interested in using assistive devices to access computers. You may sign up for this list by selecting the Tek Talk Discussion link on the same page and completing the form.
>  
> Accessible World Contacts:
>  
> Robert Acosta, Chair
> Accessible World
> 818-998-0044
> Email: boacosta at pacbell.net
> Web: www.helpinghands4theblind.org
>  
> Marcia Moses, Events Coordinator
> Accessible World
> 734-495-1496
> Email: mgmoses at comcast.net
>  
> Steve Hoffman, President
> Talking Communities
> Email: steve at talkingcommunities.com
>  
> The Accessible World, a division of Helping Hands For The Blind, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization, seeks to educate the general public, the disabled community and the professionals who serve them by providing highly relevant information about new products, services, and training opportunities designed specifically to eliminate geographic and access barriers that adversely affect them
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Bob Acosta [mailto:boacosta at pacbell.net] 
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:43 PM
> To: Michael May
> Subject: Re: Consumer electronics show
> 
>             Mike, this is wonderful.  Could you please prepare a few paragraphs about what you will be talking to us about and i shall put them into a news wire.  you know about our Client.  i would suggest that you update the software.  Thank you and i am so sorry I wrote you so late in the game.
> Bob Acosta
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Michael May 
> To: 'Bob Acosta' 
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 3:40 PM
> Subject: RE: Consumer electronics show
> 
> Bob,
> 
> January 17 could work for me.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> From: Bob Acosta [mailto:boacosta at pacbell.net] 
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 8:59 AM
> To: Michael May
> Subject: Consumer electronics show
> 
> Dear mike,
> Could you speak to Tek talk on your visit to the Consumer electronics show in las Vegas?  We have an opening on january 17 or january 31. 
> Bob Acosta    
>  
>  
> Robert Acosta, President
> Helping Hands for the Blind
> Email: boacosta at pacbell.net
> Web Site: www.helpinghands4theblind.org
>  
> You can assist Helping Hands for the Blind by donating your used computers to us. If you have a blind friend in need of a computer, please mail us at the above address.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> --
> If you no longer wish to receive any more announcements from the Accessible World announce list service, you may unsubscribe, edit your preferences or forward this email by using one of the links below.
> 
> Unsubscribe:
> this link
> 
> Update your preferences or unsubscribe:
> this link
> Forward a Message to Someone:
> this link
> 


From th404 at comcast.net  Tue Jan 18 02:06:57 2011
From: th404 at comcast.net (Tina Hansen)
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:06:57 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Access to Data Maps
Message-ID: <61DFA6CD6E404E4ABF5501AE8671D9C8@userbafffee1fc>

In the next Environmental Science lab tomorrow, we'll be running into a bit of an issue: access to data that has been graphically mapped from an online soils survey. Does anyone out there have suggestions for how to address this or similar issues involving graphically mapped data? Thanks.

From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 15:49:32 2011
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 10:49:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille certification
In-Reply-To: <wNBP1f00Y2PutTY05NBTs3@netzero.net>
References: <wNBP1f00Y2PutTY05NBTs3@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim9QP=hRTEgbpb9otiEMfoT+8UovVCtzEDgdaih@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going to jump on here and ask a question I've been meaning to ask
for awhile. How does a blind person get a certification in Braille
transcription? Doesn't the course require that you transcribe print
into Braille? If you cann't see print at all, what is the
accommodation for the Braille transcription course and test?

I also want to become certificed in Braille transcription, towards a
career as a TVi (teacher of the blind and visually impaired), and I
think certification in Braille is an important part of that career.


On 1/16/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Just a quick question before I check all my emails: Has anyone
> gotten Braille certified? Is the test easy or hard in order to
> get Braille certified? What are reference materials?
>
> I'm planning on getting a Braille certification this year, and
> need your comments about it.
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com


From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Tue Jan 18 15:55:29 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 10:55:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille certification
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim9QP=hRTEgbpb9otiEMfoT+8UovVCtzEDgdaih@mail.gmail.com>
References: <wNBP1f00Y2PutTY05NBTs3@netzero.net>
	<AANLkTim9QP=hRTEgbpb9otiEMfoT+8UovVCtzEDgdaih@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14CADAD98057409A886D9BF360EE459F@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hello,

I am taking the Braille Certification Course from the NFB, which is in 
partnership with NLS. My books are in Braille. I have been a lifelong 
Braille reader, and I have never used print as a primary reading medium. The 
course begins by teaching Braille. If you know Braille, this is the route to 
take. If you do not, call or contact them with your questions. Their 
website, with a brief overview,  is:
http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Braille_Certification.asp

Anita

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille certification


> I'm going to jump on here and ask a question I've been meaning to ask
> for awhile. How does a blind person get a certification in Braille
> transcription? Doesn't the course require that you transcribe print
> into Braille? If you cann't see print at all, what is the
> accommodation for the Braille transcription course and test?
>
> I also want to become certificed in Braille transcription, towards a
> career as a TVi (teacher of the blind and visually impaired), and I
> think certification in Braille is an important part of that career.
>
>
> On 1/16/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Just a quick question before I check all my emails: Has anyone
>> gotten Braille certified? Is the test easy or hard in order to
>> get Braille certified? What are reference materials?
>>
>> I'm planning on getting a Braille certification this year, and
>> need your comments about it.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 16:26:18 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:26:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Graduate Students Invited to Apply for RGK Center Summer
	Fellowship Program on Nonprofit Sector
Message-ID: <A369EF1996364AFA8AF41E487664A907@Rufus>

Graduate Students Invited to Apply for RGK Center Summer Fellowship Program
on Nonprofit Sector

The RGK Center for Philanthropy and Community Service at the University of
Texas at Austin is inviting graduate students from around the United States
to applyto the center's Summer Fellowship Program. 

Fellows participate in an intensive four-week seminar (June 1-24, 2011) that
culminates in the completion of papers for the RGK Center's working papers
series. Over the course of the seminar, fellows will critically examine
issues in the nonprofit sector and will work on their own research projects
in nonprofit management, volunteerism, international civil society, social
entrepreneurship, and philanthropic studies. Students are expected to submit
a draft research paper that they would like to refine and prepare for
academic publication during the summer program. 

Ph.D. and masters-level graduate students considering doctoral work are
invited to apply. The application process is competitive and takes into
consideration the academic potential of the student and the working paper
topic.

Stipends of $3,000 each are provided to each Summer Fellow. Housing near the
UT Austin campus is provided by the RGK Center. No course credit is
provided. 

Complete program information and the application are available at the RGK
Center Web site. 

http://www.rgkcenter.org/programs/summerfellows



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 21:02:20 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:02:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] The 24-Step Modern Resume
Message-ID: <63797FC89C0D438FB086BB49FEC5347D@Rufus>

The 24-Step Modern Resume
What's the difference between a computerized ATS (Applicant Tracking System)
and a black hole?

Not much, if you don't know which aspects of your resume give you a good
ranking vs. what makes these software programs choke.

The people who work with these tools say it best: "[They're] a wonderful
tool (if utilized correctly) for recruiters and hiring managers; however,
they can be a black hole for the applicant if their resume is not accurately
targeted to the open position with appropriate keywords and/or highlighted
experience," according to Laurie M. Winslow, principal at Talent Innovations
Group Inc. Winslow has worked with a slew of vendors' ATSes over her 20-plus
years in human resources, as an executive search consultant, an in-house
corporate recruiter and as a career coach and professional resume writer.

TheLadders spoke to ATS vendors and people like Winslow - the professionals
who use this technology - to unlock these mysterious black boxes to figure
out how they handle your resume. We also spent time with these pros to
figure out how your resume gets handled by other computer systems, including
e-mail security screening.

Use this list to ensure your resume gets where it needs to go and that it
receives as high a ranking as possible, optimizing your chances of getting
an interview.

Checklist
1.Do not apply to a company multiple times if the positions do not match
your experience and skills. Recruiters notice multiple submissions, and it
reflects poorly on a candidate if he or she applies for jobs that aren't a
good fit.
2.Don't send your resume as an attachment. To avoid getting caught by
security scans, paste it into the body of the e-mail.
3.When e-mailing a resume, keep exclamation marks out of the subject line
and body of the text.
4.When e-mailing a resume, don't use words in the document or headline that
could be misinterpreted by spam filters. For example, use "graduated with
high honors" instead of "graduated cum laude."
5.Include a professional or executive summary at the resume top, followed by
a list of bulleted qualifications and/or achievements.
6.Customize the professional/executive summary and bulleted list(s) with
keywords that match a given job.
7.Make sure the keywords in the executive summary and bulleted
qualifications and achievements replicate those in the job posting.
8.Keywords alone aren't enough. State-of-the-art ATS technology relies on
contextualization as well. Frame keywords with descriptive material that
demonstrates experience and familiarity with the subject.
9.Do not use abbreviations such as "Mgr" instead of "Manager." It is
unlikely that the ATS has been programmed with a list of abbreviations to
stand in for keywords.
10.Avoid misspellings. A misspelled keyword is a keyword that the ATS will
miss, lowering your ranking.
11.Use standard capitalization, not all lowercase or full capitals. Improper
capitalization annoys recruiters.
12.Fill in all the information requested by an online application process,
even if it's listed as optional. Recruiters often sort by optional
information to filter out applicants, and filling in all fields will ensure
you don't erroneously get caught in a screening filter.
13.Fill in all information requested by an online application process, even
if it's included in your resume. This information can be used to filter out
applicants before a hiring manager comes to the point of opening the resume
itself.
14.If you're being referred by an employee, make sure the ATS knows it,
because it's smart enough to care and will rate your resume higher.
15.If the ATS offers options, opt for uploading your resume instead of
cutting and pasting. This feature often parses information and saves it in
the optimal format, ensuring the cleanest presentation.
16.To avoid choking an ATS with a highly formatted resume, make sure your
resume is in a clear, concise format, with your contact information located
at the top instead of in the header or footer. 
17.Do not include graphics or logos on a resume; they can garble the
information the ATS processes.
18.Respond within 24 hours after hearing back from a company. 
19.Keep an eye on spam folders. Filters are so sensitive today that they can
recognize e-mail that's automatically generated - a category which both spam
and follow-up e-mail generated from an ATS program can fall into.
20.Adhere to instructions provided in follow-up e-mail. If the follow-up
e-mail lacks a phone number but directs you to respond with your
availability, respond via e-mail, not by calling. This will likely get you
the fastest response. 
21.If you receive an automatically generated rejection e-mail, immediately
contact the recruitment office of the rejecting organization or a
sympathetic administrative assistant - anyone who can advise you as to the
best way to replace the resume currently in the ATS with one containing
better keywords and phrases.
22.When reapplying after an initial rejection, tweak executive summaries and
bulleted lists of key skills and achievements. Don't alter your work history
elements.
23.When reapplying, don't try to use a different e-mail address from the one
you used on your first try. This isn't enough to avoid a duplicate record in
advanced systems such as Taleo, which use multiple candidate identifiers, so
make sure to follow Step #21.
24.Once your customized resume has been resubmitted, contact the appropriate
recruiter (or sympathetic administrative assistant) and request that your
updated resume be reviewed for the open position.
Lisa Vaas covers resume writing techniques and the technology behind the job
search for TheLadders.

 



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 02:27:37 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:27:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Access to Data Maps
In-Reply-To: <61DFA6CD6E404E4ABF5501AE8671D9C8@userbafffee1fc>
References: <61DFA6CD6E404E4ABF5501AE8671D9C8@userbafffee1fc>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinVAME2NfvPytmwinO_ghoToznGiWU1M3uA6-n2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tina,

I would try to work with a reader or lab partner to glean the
information from the online map. I did this with a genetics course
that required looking up gene maps in a database. I actually just
approached a student in my class and offered to buy pizza in exchange
for a few meetings to go over the map stuff and it worked out great.
It helped that he was an acquaintance of mine already, but if you
offer a small payment or free food, that should suffice. It's really
not that big of an extra inconvenience for another student to assist
when they have to do the assignment too. Good luck!
Arielle

On 1/17/11, Tina Hansen <th404 at comcast.net> wrote:
> In the next Environmental Science lab tomorrow, we'll be running into a bit
> of an issue: access to data that has been graphically mapped from an online
> soils survey. Does anyone out there have suggestions for how to address this
> or similar issues involving graphically mapped data? Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From treyman19 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 04:46:25 2011
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 22:46:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Ipad Iphone or Ipod Touch
Message-ID: <AANLkTim3CZ+DojjyvmsFeTuaZ6bRQVHnDu9Uno4Eq6+j@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I am looking for these items in the subject box  and I have a
Book-Sense and a BrailleNote M Power  Please email me at
treyman19 at gmail.com  or call 219-577-2367

-- 
Roosevelt Bradley


From freethaught at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 05:21:57 2011
From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 00:21:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible digital recorder
In-Reply-To: <115474.44632.qm@web76803.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
References: <115474.44632.qm@web76803.mail.sg1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8F44518-8B12-4301-931E-388E64116D10@gmail.com>

Hello,

Blind Cool Tech is one useful and very helpful source of information for accessible digital recorders.

Neil Yures, I probably misspelled the name, has done several compairsons of recorders and microphones on this blindness-related podcast site.

Visit

www.blindcooltech.com

Sincerely,

Antonio Guimaraes



On Jan 17, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Winy Kwany wrote:

> Hi all,
> Is there any accessible digital recorder for the blind? I want not only to record sounds and music, but I also want to be able to know the parameters such as the peak, frequency and anything related to it, so I can get the most optimum result. I know that Sonar, CT, JAWS and PC can do it and I am using it. but Any handy digital recorder out there? Ideas?
> I've heard about Olympus products. Would someone tell me how accessible is it? Does it allow blind users to know the voice frequency, parameters and other things--not only basic functions--to record?
> I look forward to hearing from you soon. Any help will be highly appreciated. Many thanks.
> Winy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 10:24:37 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 02:24:37 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs presents: all about scholarships
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikdDi7xxHh6U=Ey4vfgqhKwf1mmo+-u8YKgnNAT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikdDi7xxHh6U=Ey4vfgqhKwf1mmo+-u8YKgnNAT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=nTPyFRRqBwiL5McVycibbXmFrm2P6DLLSadbX@mail.gmail.com>

    Hello all,

  As everyone prepares to tackle a new year, getting squared away for
  another semester of lost sleep due to endless studying in this cycle
  we know so well
  by now, your beloved membership committee has been hard at work
  putting together another outstanding conference call for you. This one
  should definitely
  perk your ears because it’s all about scholarships. We will have
  Patty Chang from the  NFB scholarship committee, Mark Lucas from
  USABA, and RFB&D’s own Melissa Greenwald
  will join us as well.
  Be sure to call in to get your hands on some exciting and useful info.

  Who: The National Association of Blind Students Membership Committee

  What: Conference call about scholarships

  When: Sunday January 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET

  Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by the passcode 257963

  Why: Because who couldn’t use more money for books, food, and survival?

  As always,we hope to see you all there , but if you can’t make it, we
  will be streaming and recording the call for your use at a future
  date. Looking forward
  to a wonderful conversation with all of you. See you there!
   Nabs Membership committee.





-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace

"You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
But only you can have the drive."


From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 12:00:11 2011
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 07:00:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs presents: all about scholarships
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=nTPyFRRqBwiL5McVycibbXmFrm2P6DLLSadbX@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikdDi7xxHh6U=Ey4vfgqhKwf1mmo+-u8YKgnNAT@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=nTPyFRRqBwiL5McVycibbXmFrm2P6DLLSadbX@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimOf65Z+-CrA+TyT5AG-PpVev0V+MKt3XZ7Jyfh@mail.gmail.com>

I'll send out the link to the nabs list prior to the conference for
those who want to hear the stream. Link will be placed on twitter too!

On 1/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>     Hello all,
>
>   As everyone prepares to tackle a new year, getting squared away for
>   another semester of lost sleep due to endless studying in this cycle
>   we know so well
>   by now, your beloved membership committee has been hard at work
>   putting together another outstanding conference call for you. This one
>   should definitely
>   perk your ears because it’s all about scholarships. We will have
>   Patty Chang from the  NFB scholarship committee, Mark Lucas from
>   USABA, and RFB&D’s own Melissa Greenwald
>   will join us as well.
>   Be sure to call in to get your hands on some exciting and useful info.
>
>   Who: The National Association of Blind Students Membership Committee
>
>   What: Conference call about scholarships
>
>   When: Sunday January 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET
>
>   Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by the passcode 257963
>
>   Why: Because who couldn’t use more money for books, food, and survival?
>
>   As always,we hope to see you all there , but if you can’t make it, we
>   will be streaming and recording the call for your use at a future
>   date. Looking forward
>   to a wonderful conversation with all of you. See you there!
>    Nabs Membership committee.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
> But only you can have the drive."
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com
>


From beckyasabo at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 17:07:03 2011
From: beckyasabo at gmail.com (becky sabo)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:07:03 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs presents: all about scholarships
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimOf65Z+-CrA+TyT5AG-PpVev0V+MKt3XZ7Jyfh@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikdDi7xxHh6U=Ey4vfgqhKwf1mmo+-u8YKgnNAT@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTi=nTPyFRRqBwiL5McVycibbXmFrm2P6DLLSadbX@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimOf65Z+-CrA+TyT5AG-PpVev0V+MKt3XZ7Jyfh@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7D236BD9CE19453390C79CB83DDB8FD7@BECKY1>

Hi David,
When and where are you going to put the stream for the scholarship
conference call that was ?
Becky sabo  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David Dunphy
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 5:00 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs presents: all about scholarships

I'll send out the link to the nabs list prior to the conference for those
who want to hear the stream. Link will be placed on twitter too!

On 1/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>     Hello all,
>
>   As everyone prepares to tackle a new year, getting squared away for
>   another semester of lost sleep due to endless studying in this cycle
>   we know so well
>   by now, your beloved membership committee has been hard at work
>   putting together another outstanding conference call for you. This one
>   should definitely
>   perk your ears because it's all about scholarships. We will have
>   Patty Chang from the  NFB scholarship committee, Mark Lucas from
>   USABA, and RFB&D's own Melissa Greenwald
>   will join us as well.
>   Be sure to call in to get your hands on some exciting and useful info.
>
>   Who: The National Association of Blind Students Membership Committee
>
>   What: Conference call about scholarships
>
>   When: Sunday January 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET
>
>   Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by the passcode 257963
>
>   Why: Because who couldn't use more money for books, food, and survival?
>
>   As always,we hope to see you all there , but if you can't make it, we
>   will be streaming and recording the call for your use at a future
>   date. Looking forward
>   to a wonderful conversation with all of you. See you there!
>    Nabs Membership committee.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: 
> http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
> But only you can have the drive."
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%
> 40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/beckyasabo%40gmail.c
om



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 02:00:42 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:00:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] A phone question for all of you sprint users.
Message-ID: <AANLkTincdnL+D==Q06QvaqYH4Zow9HwqZEn7DMv4FiZw@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings all,
   A friend of  mine is looking for  accessible options for cellular
phones on the sprint network.  Might any of you have  any leads on
phones?  Are there any phones that  have speach  built into the
device?

-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace

"You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
But only you can have the drive."

  Please  contact me  off-list  with  any info you may have.
  Thanks in advance!
  Darian


From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 09:31:54 2011
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 03:31:54 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A phone question for all of you sprint users.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincdnL+D==Q06QvaqYH4Zow9HwqZEn7DMv4FiZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincdnL+D==Q06QvaqYH4Zow9HwqZEn7DMv4FiZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimUhATBmhs686WYtO3iMd3OAp1T-5pLdp91Q0is@mail.gmail.com>

Darian,
I have a phone that I use it is called a rumor. it works pretty well,
and is accessible right out of the box. What they were able to do for
me at the store was put it into a voice mode, where a built-in thing
sort of like a screen reader would then read me everything. Granted
there are some things that this phone does not read me, but basic
things such as managing contacts, knowing who's calling, and some of
the menus, are read aloud. It is actually very good considering there
isn't a need to put a screen reader on there. I was also pretty amazed
at how when I had to get my number changed, it was able to read me
everything that needed to be read in order for me to do what the agent
was asking me to on the phone. So overall I think it's a pretty good
phone. The only down thing about this phone is that there is only one
ringtone that works with the voice caller ID. But other than that, i
have not had any problems with it so far. The alarm is also a bit
challenging but playing around with it you'll find most things doable,
but most importantly, all of the basic things one would need are
there. It also has a keyboard that slides out from the bottom and I
find it a lot easier to use for putting in contacts. So, while the
phone still has some flaws as to what it may or may not read, I think
it's actually pretty good for being accessible right out of the box,
and if you're looking for something that would at least give you basic
access, then i highly recommend it.


On 1/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings all,
>    A friend of  mine is looking for  accessible options for cellular
> phones on the sprint network.  Might any of you have  any leads on
> phones?  Are there any phones that  have speach  built into the
> device?
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>
> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
> But only you can have the drive."
>
>   Please  contact me  off-list  with  any info you may have.
>   Thanks in advance!
>   Darian
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>


From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 09:34:33 2011
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 03:34:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A phone question for all of you sprint users.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimUhATBmhs686WYtO3iMd3OAp1T-5pLdp91Q0is@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincdnL+D==Q06QvaqYH4Zow9HwqZEn7DMv4FiZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimUhATBmhs686WYtO3iMd3OAp1T-5pLdp91Q0is@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikw2D6SFOJhR+gS0TZhhxqfshmT62qV3fDAgerk@mail.gmail.com>

One other thing I need to mention about this phone is that whenever
you are in a call, you have to take it off speaker when you answer it
because it automatically goes into speaker mode. I think the voice
feature is most commonly used for people when they're driving, which
is why it may be set up that way. But other than that it's a
reasonably good phone.

On 1/20/11, Ashley <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Darian,
> I have a phone that I use it is called a rumor. it works pretty well,
> and is accessible right out of the box. What they were able to do for
> me at the store was put it into a voice mode, where a built-in thing
> sort of like a screen reader would then read me everything. Granted
> there are some things that this phone does not read me, but basic
> things such as managing contacts, knowing who's calling, and some of
> the menus, are read aloud. It is actually very good considering there
> isn't a need to put a screen reader on there. I was also pretty amazed
> at how when I had to get my number changed, it was able to read me
> everything that needed to be read in order for me to do what the agent
> was asking me to on the phone. So overall I think it's a pretty good
> phone. The only down thing about this phone is that there is only one
> ringtone that works with the voice caller ID. But other than that, i
> have not had any problems with it so far. The alarm is also a bit
> challenging but playing around with it you'll find most things doable,
> but most importantly, all of the basic things one would need are
> there. It also has a keyboard that slides out from the bottom and I
> find it a lot easier to use for putting in contacts. So, while the
> phone still has some flaws as to what it may or may not read, I think
> it's actually pretty good for being accessible right out of the box,
> and if you're looking for something that would at least give you basic
> access, then i highly recommend it.
>
>
> On 1/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>    A friend of  mine is looking for  accessible options for cellular
>> phones on the sprint network.  Might any of you have  any leads on
>> phones?  Are there any phones that  have speach  built into the
>> device?
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
>> But only you can have the drive."
>>
>>   Please  contact me  off-list  with  any info you may have.
>>   Thanks in advance!
>>   Darian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>
>


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 14:15:46 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:15:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] about europe
Message-ID: <4D384392.70604@gmail.com>

Hi

A short while ago on this list there was somebody who said something 
about maybe we should all move to europe or blind people living in 
europe or something like that. Could the person who wrote that message 
please email me at jkenn337 at gmail.com I would like to discuss this 
further but off list.



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 15:32:29 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:32:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote mPower for Sale
Message-ID: <DB22E75A34F842D18FA50294355105BE@Rufus>

I am selling my BrailleNote mPower BT 32, Keysoft 7.5. If I had to pick the
top three best qualities of the unit they would be the crisp Braille
display, the context sensitive help system and ease of menu navigation. It's
a nice workhorse, and given Humanware's trade-in program, it could be
upgraded to something even better. My reason for selling is nothing more
than a preference for the laptop and the fact that the mPower has sat around
for a while. It's perfect for the busy college student, working professional
or computer enthusiast who'd like a unit to tinker with.

>From the manufacturer's website:

The BrailleNote mPower BT provides a choice of output options by combining a
crisp, high definition Braille display with clear, responsive speech.

Features
. 32 cell refreshable Braille display
. Nine-key Braille keyboard
. Speech output
. Effortless thumb navigation by line, sentence, or paragraph
. One-handed mode for people with limited mobility
. Context sensitive help and indexed user guide
. Serves as a Braille display for PC's screen reader
. Weight: 1.3kg / 2.9lb
. Dimensions:&#160;25cm x 15.5cm x 5cm / 9.9" x 6.1" x 2"

The device comes in its original box and includes the unit, carrying case
and AC adapter. The list price for the unit is $6,195. I'll send it over to
you for $750 and include shipping. We'll use PayPal, and it goes out the
same day if your payment clears before 3:00 PM East. If you find a published
and legitimate price somewhere with a better deal, send over the link, and
we'll chat.

Let me know if you're interested.

Regards,

Joe Orozco



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Thu Jan 20 16:49:09 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:49:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A phone question for all of you sprint users.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimUhATBmhs686WYtO3iMd3OAp1T-5pLdp91Q0is@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000026642325@mailback1.g2host.com>

Ashley,

My wife has a Rumor 2, but I have not been able to get it to read text messages although I am told that it does.  Do you read text messages with your phone 
and if you do, would explain what you do?

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 03:31:54 -0600, Ashley wrote:

>Darian,
>I have a phone that I use it is called a rumor. it works pretty well,
>and is accessible right out of the box. What they were able to do for
>me at the store was put it into a voice mode, where a built-in thing
>sort of like a screen reader would then read me everything. Granted
>there are some things that this phone does not read me, but basic
>things such as managing contacts, knowing who's calling, and some of
>the menus, are read aloud. It is actually very good considering there
>isn't a need to put a screen reader on there. I was also pretty amazed
>at how when I had to get my number changed, it was able to read me
>everything that needed to be read in order for me to do what the agent
>was asking me to on the phone. So overall I think it's a pretty good
>phone. The only down thing about this phone is that there is only one
>ringtone that works with the voice caller ID. But other than that, i
>have not had any problems with it so far. The alarm is also a bit
>challenging but playing around with it you'll find most things doable,
>but most importantly, all of the basic things one would need are
>there. It also has a keyboard that slides out from the bottom and I
>find it a lot easier to use for putting in contacts. So, while the
>phone still has some flaws as to what it may or may not read, I think
>it's actually pretty good for being accessible right out of the box,
>and if you're looking for something that would at least give you basic
>access, then i highly recommend it.


>On 1/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>    A friend of  mine is looking for  accessible options for cellular
>> phones on the sprint network.  Might any of you have  any leads on
>> phones?  Are there any phones that  have speach  built into the
>> device?
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
>> But only you can have the drive."
>>
>>   Please  contact me  off-list  with  any info you may have.
>>   Thanks in advance!
>>   Darian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 17:03:24 2011
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 11:03:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A phone question for all of you sprint users.
In-Reply-To: <auto-000026642325@mailback1.g2host.com>
References: <AANLkTimUhATBmhs686WYtO3iMd3OAp1T-5pLdp91Q0is@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000026642325@mailback1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikTgPK07g=fYq1RzMmiAfD-PxQFJnvY2SWyzzrr@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,
I have not yet tried text messaging with this phone. I know that it
does automatically put me on the text messaging screen when I pull out
the keyboard, but that is all I know because I don't have texting on
my plan right now. So not sure if it reads them but chances are you
may have to hit ok or something on the message. I do know that it will
let you know when you have a new message.
Ashley


On 1/20/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Ashley,
>
> My wife has a Rumor 2, but I have not been able to get it to read text
> messages although I am told that it does.  Do you read text messages with
> your phone
> and if you do, would explain what you do?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 03:31:54 -0600, Ashley wrote:
>
>>Darian,
>>I have a phone that I use it is called a rumor. it works pretty well,
>>and is accessible right out of the box. What they were able to do for
>>me at the store was put it into a voice mode, where a built-in thing
>>sort of like a screen reader would then read me everything. Granted
>>there are some things that this phone does not read me, but basic
>>things such as managing contacts, knowing who's calling, and some of
>>the menus, are read aloud. It is actually very good considering there
>>isn't a need to put a screen reader on there. I was also pretty amazed
>>at how when I had to get my number changed, it was able to read me
>>everything that needed to be read in order for me to do what the agent
>>was asking me to on the phone. So overall I think it's a pretty good
>>phone. The only down thing about this phone is that there is only one
>>ringtone that works with the voice caller ID. But other than that, i
>>have not had any problems with it so far. The alarm is also a bit
>>challenging but playing around with it you'll find most things doable,
>>but most importantly, all of the basic things one would need are
>>there. It also has a keyboard that slides out from the bottom and I
>>find it a lot easier to use for putting in contacts. So, while the
>>phone still has some flaws as to what it may or may not read, I think
>>it's actually pretty good for being accessible right out of the box,
>>and if you're looking for something that would at least give you basic
>>access, then i highly recommend it.
>
>
>>On 1/19/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Greetings all,
>>>    A friend of  mine is looking for  accessible options for cellular
>>> phones on the sprint network.  Might any of you have  any leads on
>>> phones?  Are there any phones that  have speach  built into the
>>> device?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>>
>>> "You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
>>> But only you can have the drive."
>>>
>>>   Please  contact me  off-list  with  any info you may have.
>>>   Thanks in advance!
>>>   Darian
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 15:32:29 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:32:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote mPower for Sale
Message-ID: <DB22E75A34F842D18FA50294355105BE@Rufus>

I am selling my BrailleNote mPower BT 32, Keysoft 7.5. If I had to pick the
top three best qualities of the unit they would be the crisp Braille
display, the context sensitive help system and ease of menu navigation. It's
a nice workhorse, and given Humanware's trade-in program, it could be
upgraded to something even better. My reason for selling is nothing more
than a preference for the laptop and the fact that the mPower has sat around
for a while. It's perfect for the busy college student, working professional
or computer enthusiast who'd like a unit to tinker with.

> From the manufacturer's website:

The BrailleNote mPower BT provides a choice of output options by combining a
crisp, high definition Braille display with clear, responsive speech.

Features
. 32 cell refreshable Braille display
. Nine-key Braille keyboard
. Speech output
. Effortless thumb navigation by line, sentence, or paragraph
. One-handed mode for people with limited mobility
. Context sensitive help and indexed user guide
. Serves as a Braille display for PC's screen reader
. Weight: 1.3kg / 2.9lb
. Dimensions:&#160;25cm x 15.5cm x 5cm / 9.9" x 6.1" x 2"

The device comes in its original box and includes the unit, carrying case
and AC adapter. The list price for the unit is $6,195. I'll send it over to
you for $750 and include shipping. We'll use PayPal, and it goes out the
same day if your payment clears before 3:00 PM East. If you find a published
and legitimate price somewhere with a better deal, send over the link, and
we'll chat.

Let me know if you're interested.

Regards,

Joe Orozco


_______________________________________________
Iabs-talk mailing list
Iabs-talk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/iabs-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Iabs-talk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/iabs-talk_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net


From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Fri Jan 21 04:07:54 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 20:07:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] College classes Vs. High School classes
Message-ID: <y47e1f00A2PutTY0547fTB@netzero.net>

Hello to all listers.

I have a question for you. I'm going off to college soon so I can 
get higher education.
Can you give me an explanation of what college life and college 
classes are like? What is the difference between college classes 
and high school classes? What is the difference between college 
life and high school life?
Most of you are all in college already, and I would preferably 
need a real explanation, not an explanation from a search on 
google. (smile:) Since most of you all have experiences on the 
matter, any comments are appreciated. Especially from a blindness 
perspective. Thanks.



From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 04:21:28 2011
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:21:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] College classes Vs. High School classes
In-Reply-To: <y47e1f00A2PutTY0547fTB@netzero.net>
References: <y47e1f00A2PutTY0547fTB@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim2_mvqbYETyTuQ78mtoYvv2WSw5yun7xrWDaRT@mail.gmail.com>

Homberto,
  College is so much better than High School.  Especially if you live
on campus/close to campus and not at home.  People are so much
more...friendly than they were in high school.  Not that high
schoolers are usually mean...but I felt like in high school lots of
people were lots more worried about their image and how they looked to
other people than they are in college.  So...lots of parties, lots of
fun, lots of nice people.  At least in my experience.  Student life,
especially for me here in the dorms, is fantastic.  I've been in the
dorms ever since this school year started...and I've not had this much
fun before.  Ever.
  A word of caution though.  Social life's funner, work's a lot
harder.  Don't do what I did and treat your first semester like high
school.  Work is a lot more tense, professors are generally a l9ot
less leniant than high school teachers.  And noone's there making you
go to class, so it's all on you.  In high school, I pretty much just
coasted through, did a little bit of studying and ended up with a 3.6.
 You can't do that in college- the work is a lot more rigorous, takes
longer, and...if you don't study, you'll probably have a lot harder
time passing tests than you would've if you blew off homework in high
school.  Do your work (even when it takes really really long and you
want to go to that party that sounds so fun), do it well...get a
system down for the hard things that aren't as accessible, and keep in
touch with your campus disability services center.  If you do all
those things, you're gonna be fine.  And you can have a hell of a time
while you're at it.
  Good luck,
Kirt

On 1/20/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
> Hello to all listers.
>
> I have a question for you. I'm going off to college soon so I can
> get higher education.
> Can you give me an explanation of what college life and college
> classes are like? What is the difference between college classes
> and high school classes? What is the difference between college
> life and high school life?
> Most of you are all in college already, and I would preferably
> need a real explanation, not an explanation from a search on
> google. (smile:) Since most of you all have experiences on the
> matter, any comments are appreciated. Especially from a blindness
> perspective. Thanks.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 04:49:21 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 23:49:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] College classes Vs. High School classes
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim2_mvqbYETyTuQ78mtoYvv2WSw5yun7xrWDaRT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <y47e1f00A2PutTY0547fTB@netzero.net>
	<AANLkTim2_mvqbYETyTuQ78mtoYvv2WSw5yun7xrWDaRT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimccQ+DbdXVmqK_eobscE7vHLsi14Cdx6F4zmbm@mail.gmail.com>

Kirt's explanation was really good. I don't think there is a way to
totally describe them though. It kind of depends on what type of
school you go to. You could have bigger or smaller classes. Although
some professors don't care about attendance, some do, and some in an
indirect way such as through pop quizzes or giving extra credit points
now and then to people who show up. You'll just have to get used to
how much reading, or lack there of, you need to do. It takes a
semester or two to figure out how you study and how well you retain
information, so don't take one person's advice as the path to easy
A's. Although some classes will have assignments aside from tests,
there will be a lot fewer, and some classes simply have 3 or 4 tests
and that's your final grade. Some professors are very high tech with
interactive powerpoints, some are willing to put the notes online, and
others just stand in the front and talk. The biggest difference I
think is that you won't spend as much time in class. On average a
person takes 15 credit hours a semester, and that means they spend 15
hours in class each week, and classes can meet, once, twice, or three
times a week, usually on alternating days. Classes can be from 8:00 in
the morning, and some don't end until 9:00 at night. So you'll have a
lot more time, but you'll have to do a lot more yourself. There won't
be as much direction, but most professors in my experience have been
willing to help if you take initiative.

There will be tons of student organizations, so you can find
organizations representing things you're interested in and meet people
with common interests. There will still be ignorant people, but I have
met a lot of people who are great. Sometimes all you need to do is
answer a few questions, or be willing to talk about yourself, and then
after a while, they'll forget taht you're blind. I love college, but
it definitely took me a semester to transition. I am slow to change,
so it certainly is different for all people, but don't give up if you
don't make a ton of friends instantly like a lot of pop culture and
people say happens. Right now it feels like I made a ton of friends
instantly, but that's because once I made friends I kind of forgot not
having them, you know? So just give yourself time before you decide
that where you go to school isn't right for you or anything like that.

Well, I'll stop rambling, but look forward to school! If you put in
the effort, you'll get a lot out of it and never want to graduate.

Cindy

On 1/20/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Homberto,
>   College is so much better than High School.  Especially if you live
> on campus/close to campus and not at home.  People are so much
> more...friendly than they were in high school.  Not that high
> schoolers are usually mean...but I felt like in high school lots of
> people were lots more worried about their image and how they looked to
> other people than they are in college.  So...lots of parties, lots of
> fun, lots of nice people.  At least in my experience.  Student life,
> especially for me here in the dorms, is fantastic.  I've been in the
> dorms ever since this school year started...and I've not had this much
> fun before.  Ever.
>   A word of caution though.  Social life's funner, work's a lot
> harder.  Don't do what I did and treat your first semester like high
> school.  Work is a lot more tense, professors are generally a l9ot
> less leniant than high school teachers.  And noone's there making you
> go to class, so it's all on you.  In high school, I pretty much just
> coasted through, did a little bit of studying and ended up with a 3.6.
>  You can't do that in college- the work is a lot more rigorous, takes
> longer, and...if you don't study, you'll probably have a lot harder
> time passing tests than you would've if you blew off homework in high
> school.  Do your work (even when it takes really really long and you
> want to go to that party that sounds so fun), do it well...get a
> system down for the hard things that aren't as accessible, and keep in
> touch with your campus disability services center.  If you do all
> those things, you're gonna be fine.  And you can have a hell of a time
> while you're at it.
>   Good luck,
> Kirt
>
> On 1/20/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
>> Hello to all listers.
>>
>> I have a question for you. I'm going off to college soon so I can
>> get higher education.
>> Can you give me an explanation of what college life and college
>> classes are like? What is the difference between college classes
>> and high school classes? What is the difference between college
>> life and high school life?
>> Most of you are all in college already, and I would preferably
>> need a real explanation, not an explanation from a search on
>> google. (smile:) Since most of you all have experiences on the
>> matter, any comments are appreciated. Especially from a blindness
>> perspective. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From debbiewunder at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 21 05:01:20 2011
From: debbiewunder at earthlink.net (Debbie Wunder)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 23:01:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] College classes Vs. High School classes
References: <y47e1f00A2PutTY0547fTB@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <21B9FBECD30F4004A53020EA6C243C9F@DEBBIECOMPUTER>

I think that people haven given you some good advise, but one important 
thing to remember is the National Federation of the Blind. If you stay 
connected to the student division, and your local chapter, giving you a 
place to tap in to things is very important.

Taking good written notes is very important, not recording calsees as many 
of us use to do.

Have, learn a lot, make good decisions, and learn from the ones that were 
not so good.

Good Luck!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "humberto" <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:07 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] College classes Vs. High School classes


> Hello to all listers.
>
> I have a question for you. I'm going off to college soon so I can get 
> higher education.
> Can you give me an explanation of what college life and college classes 
> are like? What is the difference between college classes and high school 
> classes? What is the difference between college life and high school life?
> Most of you are all in college already, and I would preferably need a real 
> explanation, not an explanation from a search on google. (smile:) Since 
> most of you all have experiences on the matter, any comments are 
> appreciated. Especially from a blindness perspective. Thanks.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40earthlink.net 



From agrima at nbp.org  Fri Jan 21 09:58:25 2011
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 03:58:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NBP-Announce: Get two for the price of one!
Message-ID: <auto-000187423647@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Get two for the price of one!
Label It! Braille and Audio Strategies for Identifying Items at Home and
Work
By  Judith M. Dixon
$12 for two copies

Labeling items around the house is a great way to reinforce braille. "Label
It!" tells you everything you need to know to label clothes, cables,
folders, food containers, pill cases, appliances, and more. What to buy,
where to buy it, and how to apply it.

Order a print copy and receive a free second copy, in either print or in
braille! Get one copy for yourself, and give the second copy to a parent or
teacher, or donate it to a classroom or library! (Please specify the format
of the second copy by calling or emailing us - see below.)

Check out the table of contents for this book at:
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/LABELIT.html

And don't forget - in honor of Louis Braille's birthday this month, order
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basket of Louis goodies. Order by phone, fax, mail, or website, and you
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******
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your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org .

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From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 18:10:23 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:10:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accepting applications for the 2011 Fall Student
	Internship Program
Message-ID: <FD56841843394BBF934F179EB95BA179@Rufus>

 Hello: 

We are pleased to inform you that we are accepting applications for the U.S.
Department of State's 2011 Fall Student Internship Program. 

Click here (http://careers.state.gov/students/programs
<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=bWFpbGluZ2lkPTExNzkzM
jImbWVzc2FnZWlkPVBSRC1CVUwtMTE3OTMyMiZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTEyNzY3M
zU0MDUmZW1haWxpZD1qc29yb3pjb0BnbWFpbC5jb20mdXNlcmlkPWpzb3JvemNvQGdtYWlsLmNvb
SZmbD0mZXh0cmE9TXVsdGl2YXJpYXRlSWQ9JiYm&&&100&&&http://careers.state.gov/stu
dents/programs> , and click on Student Internships under Undergraduate or
Graduate/Post-Graduate) for more information, and to start the Gateway to
State online application process via USAJobs. 

Please note that the deadline to submit completed applications is March 01,
2011. 

You must be a U.S. Citizen and a student (a full- or part-time continuing
college or university junior, or graduate student - including graduating
seniors intending to go on to graduate school) to be eligible. Please read
the program description and vacancy announcement for more information and
all qualification requirements. 

We appreciate your interest in a career with the U.S. Department of State. 

U.S. citizenship is required. An equal opportunity employer. 

  _____  

 
<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=bWFpbGluZ2lkPTExNzkzM
jImbWVzc2FnZWlkPVBSRC1CVUwtMTE3OTMyMiZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTEyNzY3M
zU0MDUmZW1haWxpZD1qc29yb3pjb0BnbWFpbC5jb20mdXNlcmlkPWpzb3JvemNvQGdtYWlsLmNvb
SZmbD0mZXh0cmE9TXVsdGl2YXJpYXRlSWQ9JiYm&&&101&&&http://careers.state.gov/>
U.S. Deptartment of State Logo 	Questions? Contact Us
<http://links.govdelivery.com:80/track?type=click&enid=bWFpbGluZ2lkPTExNzkzM
jImbWVzc2FnZWlkPVBSRC1CVUwtMTE3OTMyMiZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTEyNzY3M
zU0MDUmZW1haWxpZD1qc29yb3pjb0BnbWFpbC5jb20mdXNlcmlkPWpzb3JvemNvQGdtYWlsLmNvb
SZmbD0mZXh0cmE9TXVsdGl2YXJpYXRlSWQ9JiYm&&&102&&&http://contact-us.state.gov/
cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php>  	

From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 18:49:24 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:49:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Just wish to let everyone know that I have several items for sale.

I have a Braille Lite Millennium 40 that is still in pretty good shape
- the display is in perfect condition despite being used for five
years then being stored for about three years.  I'd like to sell it
for $500 but will go for the best offer.

I have a couple desktop computers that I would like to get rid of.
Will give them up for $200 a piece or best offer - contact me for
details.

Also got a Romeo Pro 50 Braille embosser that I will sell for $1,000.

My email address is:
spangler.robert at gmail.com

Thanks,
Robby


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Fri Jan 21 21:41:28 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:41:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F5C2E2EA-4E83-41F9-AA54-5FFA2967AFA6@mac.com>

What OS do your desktops run?
What screenreader?


On Jan 21, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Just wish to let everyone know that I have several items for sale.
> 
> I have a Braille Lite Millennium 40 that is still in pretty good shape
> - the display is in perfect condition despite being used for five
> years then being stored for about three years.  I'd like to sell it
> for $500 but will go for the best offer.
> 
> I have a couple desktop computers that I would like to get rid of.
> Will give them up for $200 a piece or best offer - contact me for
> details.
> 
> Also got a Romeo Pro 50 Braille embosser that I will sell for $1,000.
> 
> My email address is:
> spangler.robert at gmail.com
> 
> Thanks,
> Robby
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 23:38:59 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:38:59 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs presents: all about scholarships
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikdDi7xxHh6U=Ey4vfgqhKwf1mmo+-u8YKgnNAT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikdDi7xxHh6U=Ey4vfgqhKwf1mmo+-u8YKgnNAT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik_7pwRs6UE4MJsSoGHY8vcXqrvNPeYDMeKTYKD@mail.gmail.com>

    Hello all,
>
  As everyone prepares to tackle a new year, getting squared away for
  another semester of lost sleep due to endless studying in this cycle
  we know so well
  by now, your beloved membership committee has been hard at work
  putting together another outstanding conference call for you. This one
  should definitely
  perk your ears because it’s all about scholarships. We will have
  Patty Chang from the  NFB scholarship committee, Mark Lucas from
  USABA, and RFB&D’s own Melissa Greenwald
  will join us as well.
  Be sure to call in to get your hands on some exciting and useful info.

  Who: The National Association of Blind Students Membership Committee

  What: Conference call about scholarships

  When: Sunday January 23, 2011 at 7:00 PM ET

  Where: (712) 775-7100, followed by the passcode 257963

  Why: Because who couldn’t use more money for books, food, and survival?

  As always,we hope to see you all there , but if you can’t make it, we
  will be streaming and recording the call for your use at a future
  date. Looking forward
  to a wonderful conversation with all of you. See you there!
   Nabs Membership committee.





 --
 Darian Smith
 Skype: The_Blind_Truth
 Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
 Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace


 “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are
 spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin



--


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 22 01:56:04 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:56:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] computer questions and leaving
Message-ID: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi all,
e
I got a new computer  because the old one broke; this one does not have outlook or outlook express.
I need a mail client to effectively manage email that is accessible with jaws 12 and windows 7.

Anyone know if the windows live mail that replaced outlook express is accessible? If so how do i find out commands?

Until I figure out an accessible mail client or how to use windows live mail i will unsubscribe from many lists in the near future.

Feel free to reach me at bookwormahb at earthlink.net; i can also check archives.

Thanks.

Ashley

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Sat Jan 22 02:28:40 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:28:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Pro Tools guide
Message-ID: <CCF5B9FF-54B9-45C6-89F7-F825E18F253B@mac.com>

Hi all:
Just wondering,
does anyone know of a good Voice Over guide for Protools?

Thanks,

Jorge


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 06:00:39 2011
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 23:00:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] computer questions and leaving
In-Reply-To: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinRSBQxQ4F0ZOM4t8PuFmGimVdeRymO2KfocQoZ@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley,
  I'm guessing you don't want to do this...but you could always switch
over to gmail.  I like it so much better than outlook express...but
that's just me.  It saves your messages, folders are super easy to
manage, the conversation view is so convenient...I like the interface
a lot better than outlook/outlook express.  But that's just me.
  Take care,
Kirt

On 1/21/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
> e
> I got a new computer  because the old one broke; this one does not have
> outlook or outlook express.
> I need a mail client to effectively manage email that is accessible with
> jaws 12 and windows 7.
>
> Anyone know if the windows live mail that replaced outlook express is
> accessible? If so how do i find out commands?
>
> Until I figure out an accessible mail client or how to use windows live mail
> i will unsubscribe from many lists in the near future.
>
> Feel free to reach me at bookwormahb at earthlink.net; i can also check
> archives.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Jan 22 15:33:29 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 09:33:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] computer questions and leaving
In-Reply-To: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.
	earthlink.net>
References: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000191430421@mailfront1.g2host.com>

To the best of my knowledge, Windows Live Mail is accessible -- but I 
haven't used it.

Dave

At 07:56 PM 1/21/2011, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>e
>I got a new computer  because the old one broke; this one does not 
>have outlook or outlook express.
>I need a mail client to effectively manage email that is accessible 
>with jaws 12 and windows 7.
>
>Anyone know if the windows live mail that replaced outlook express 
>is accessible? If so how do i find out commands?




From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 19:36:27 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:36:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale
In-Reply-To: <F5C2E2EA-4E83-41F9-AA54-5FFA2967AFA6@mac.com>
References: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5C2E2EA-4E83-41F9-AA54-5FFA2967AFA6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimwvrQXsDnsw0oRHLr3Lt1KjpHnLWt2AhjBbgk4@mail.gmail.com>

If I remember properly, one has a copy of Arch Linux on it and the
other is a very old installation of Windows XP.  I would wipe the
drives if they got sold.

Thanks,
Robby

On 1/21/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
> What OS do your desktops run?
> What screenreader?
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Just wish to let everyone know that I have several items for sale.
>>
>> I have a Braille Lite Millennium 40 that is still in pretty good shape
>> - the display is in perfect condition despite being used for five
>> years then being stored for about three years.  I'd like to sell it
>> for $500 but will go for the best offer.
>>
>> I have a couple desktop computers that I would like to get rid of.
>> Will give them up for $200 a piece or best offer - contact me for
>> details.
>>
>> Also got a Romeo Pro 50 Braille embosser that I will sell for $1,000.
>>
>> My email address is:
>> spangler.robert at gmail.com
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Robby
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Sat Jan 22 19:42:07 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:42:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimwvrQXsDnsw0oRHLr3Lt1KjpHnLWt2AhjBbgk4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5C2E2EA-4E83-41F9-AA54-5FFA2967AFA6@mac.com>
	<AANLkTimwvrQXsDnsw0oRHLr3Lt1KjpHnLWt2AhjBbgk4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5CD4A29-5D73-4800-94F1-22DEBB577E44@mac.com>

OK.
What are the specs of these machines?
Company, model, etc.


(feel free to contact me offline if it is better for you.)


On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:

> If I remember properly, one has a copy of Arch Linux on it and the
> other is a very old installation of Windows XP.  I would wipe the
> drives if they got sold.
> 
> Thanks,
> Robby
> 
> On 1/21/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>> What OS do your desktops run?
>> What screenreader?
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 21, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> Just wish to let everyone know that I have several items for sale.
>>> 
>>> I have a Braille Lite Millennium 40 that is still in pretty good shape
>>> - the display is in perfect condition despite being used for five
>>> years then being stored for about three years.  I'd like to sell it
>>> for $500 but will go for the best offer.
>>> 
>>> I have a couple desktop computers that I would like to get rid of.
>>> Will give them up for $200 a piece or best offer - contact me for
>>> details.
>>> 
>>> Also got a Romeo Pro 50 Braille embosser that I will sell for $1,000.
>>> 
>>> My email address is:
>>> spangler.robert at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Robby
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Robert Spangler
> The University of Toledo
> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 22:28:21 2011
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:28:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] computer questions and leaving
In-Reply-To: <auto-000191430421@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<auto-000191430421@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <4D3B5A05.7010204@gmail.com>

I use Thunderbird and love it.  I don't know if it is accessible with 
JAWS though because I primarily use NVDA.
On 1/22/2011 10:33 AM, David Andrews wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge, Windows Live Mail is accessible -- but I 
> haven't used it.
>
> Dave
>
> At 07:56 PM 1/21/2011, you wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> e
>> I got a new computer  because the old one broke; this one does not 
>> have outlook or outlook express.
>> I need a mail client to effectively manage email that is accessible 
>> with jaws 12 and windows 7.
>>
>> Anyone know if the windows live mail that replaced outlook express is 
>> accessible? If so how do i find out commands?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com 
>



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 22 23:49:33 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:49:33 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
Message-ID: <25970351.1295740174746.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi all,

Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.  
So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons labeled? What access issues are there?
Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?

Thanks!

Ashley Bramlett


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 23 00:08:10 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:08:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
Message-ID: <5858606.1295741290950.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi,
any accessibility challenges with windows 7 and if so what?
I use jaws 12. i notice jaws loses focus more and i refocus with alt tab.
Ashley

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From kimthurman at insightbb.com  Sun Jan 23 00:30:53 2011
From: kimthurman at insightbb.com (Kimberly thurman)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:30:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
In-Reply-To: <25970351.1295740174746.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <25970351.1295740174746.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DDE91BD8-D86B-439D-A544-F1B1BEB65CA5@insightbb.com>

Ashley, Jaws 12 has a built-in feature that turns the ribbons into what looks more like menus. It has to be turned on via the configuration manager, but it makes the ribbons more navigable and predictable.  hth  I'm sure you can google the subject and get step-by-step directions on how to turn this feature on.  
On Jan 22, 2011, at 6:49 PM, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.  
> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons labeled? What access issues are there?
> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ashley Bramlett
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kimthurman%40insightbb.com



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sun Jan 23 01:40:05 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:40:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
Message-ID: <ypg21f00F2PutTY05pg5sc@netzero.net>

Well, JAWS version 12 has a new feature that is called virtual 
ribbons. Press the insert key plus number 6 on your upper 
keyboard row to get to the settings center, then in the search 
edit box, just type ribbon and the option to turn on or off the 
virtual ribbons is presented. It is a checkbox. Good luck!

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:49:33 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility

>Hi all,

>Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting 
it.
>So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is 
everything accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut 
commands such as control s for save or control F for find still 
work?  Are all buttons labeled? What access issues are there?
>Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 
2010?

>Thanks!

>Ashley Bramlett


>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sun Jan 23 01:40:09 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:40:09 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
Message-ID: <ypg21f00F2PutTY05pg8tN@netzero.net>

Actually, it is not christmas anymore. it is already getting 
closer to the end of January. Your signature is outdated. better 
update it.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:08:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility

>Hi,
>any accessibility challenges with windows 7 and if so what?
>I use jaws 12. i notice jaws loses focus more and i refocus with 
alt tab.
>Ashley

>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 01:48:03 2011
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:48:03 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
Message-ID: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage therapist!
I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
after graduation!
Rania,


From cnaylor073 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 02:26:11 2011
From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:26:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
Message-ID: <4d3b91b5.5145e50a.490c.fffffe96@mx.google.com>

Hey Rania congratulations.  I'm so happy for you.

Christina Mitchell

-----Original Message-----
From: Rania Ismail <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:48 PM
To: nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!

I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage therapist!
I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
after graduation!
Rania,

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com



From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 02:26:54 2011
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:26:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
In-Reply-To: <ypg21f00F2PutTY05pg8tN@netzero.net>
References: <ypg21f00F2PutTY05pg8tN@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=mO--mTo7wsU2k30+Vh3niCjohgtD4+ff6Hbzj@mail.gmail.com>

The ribbon feature that was mentioned is called Virtual Ribbon. It is
new as of JAWS 12, and if you read the update features for JAWS 12, it
discusses it there. I have JAWS 11, but will be begging for an update
for that feature, and the bookmark feature for Word (insert a bookmark
with CTRL+Windows key+K, and go to it with WINDOWS Key+K). All of the
hotkeys (like CTRL + S, CTRL + O, and for formatting like bold and
underline) are there.

On 1/22/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
> Actually, it is not christmas anymore. it is already getting
> closer to the end of January. Your signature is outdated. better
> update it.
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:08:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>>Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
>
>>Hi,
>>any accessibility challenges with windows 7 and if so what?
>>I use jaws 12. i notice jaws loses focus more and i refocus with
> alt tab.
>>Ashley
>
>>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
> 5369%40netzero.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 23 02:39:33 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:39:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
Message-ID: <7436344.1295750374048.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi,
Where is the virtual ribbobn feature?
I checked out the ribbon setup in word and other applications.  There are two ribbons in the word processor if I see it right.  Jaws says there's an upper ribbon and lower ribbbon.  It seems that the lower ribbon gives you all the buttons with options, options that would have been in a menu in 2003 versions.
To select an option as I arrow to it, I think I press enter.  So when I hear "bullets" for instance I enter and arrow down to review the options under that option.  That is how I understand the ribbon bar thing.
Ms word gives eight tabs in the upper ribbon.

Ashley
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 22, 2011 9:26 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
>
>The ribbon feature that was mentioned is called Virtual Ribbon. It is
>new as of JAWS 12, and if you read the update features for JAWS 12, it
>discusses it there. I have JAWS 11, but will be begging for an update
>for that feature, and the bookmark feature for Word (insert a bookmark
>with CTRL+Windows key+K, and go to it with WINDOWS Key+K). All of the
>hotkeys (like CTRL + S, CTRL + O, and for formatting like bold and
>underline) are there.
>
>On 1/22/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
>> Actually, it is not christmas anymore. it is already getting
>> closer to the end of January. Your signature is outdated. better
>> update it.
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:08:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>>>Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>any accessibility challenges with windows 7 and if so what?
>>>I use jaws 12. i notice jaws loses focus more and i refocus with
>> alt tab.
>>>Ashley
>>
>>>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>> 5369%40netzero.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>-- 
>~Jewel
>Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 23 02:41:02 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:41:02 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
Message-ID: <20742520.1295750462232.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Rania,

That's a great update.  I know you worked a long time for this. Congradulations!

-----Original Message-----
>From: Christina <cnaylor073 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 22, 2011 9:26 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
>
>Hey Rania congratulations.  I'm so happy for you.
>
>Christina Mitchell
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rania Ismail <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:48 PM
>To: nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
>
>I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage therapist!
>I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
>accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
>after graduation!
>Rania,
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From jackson.dezman at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 03:28:37 2011
From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:28:37 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinubJGdOm6nA19qD82PTkrYmvFHKxfWwtDUUSCa@mail.gmail.com>

Rania,

Way to go.  All the best and keep up the good work.

Dezman

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Rania Ismail <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage
> therapist!
> I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
> accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
> after graduation!
> Rania,
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB

From trillian551 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 04:02:25 2011
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:02:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinubJGdOm6nA19qD82PTkrYmvFHKxfWwtDUUSCa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinubJGdOm6nA19qD82PTkrYmvFHKxfWwtDUUSCa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinhwDevkh2HW36kd9NnNEn6-dKi1NbYDC74x0d+@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Rania!
Congratulations! I know you have worked really hard for this in the
last few years, and I commend you for persisting despite all the
obstacles. Good job Girl! Keep it up, and I can't wait to enjoy a
massage from those magical hands next time I'm in Jersey.
Love


On 1/22/11, Dezman Jackson <jackson.dezman at gmail.com> wrote:
> Rania,
>
> Way to go.  All the best and keep up the good work.
>
> Dezman
>
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Rania Ismail
> <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage
>> therapist!
>> I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
>> accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
>> after graduation!
>> Rania,
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot


From aphelps at bism.org  Sun Jan 23 04:11:07 2011
From: aphelps at bism.org (aphelps at bism.org)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 04:11:07 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinubJGdOm6nA19qD82PTkrYmvFHKxfWwtDUUSCa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTinubJGdOm6nA19qD82PTkrYmvFHKxfWwtDUUSCa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <795897352-1295755870-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-783476168-@bda2475.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Who Rania, that is fantastic news!!!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Dezman Jackson <jackson.dezman at gmail.com>
Sender: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 21:28:37 
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!

Rania,

Way to go.  All the best and keep up the good work.

Dezman

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Rania Ismail <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage
> therapist!
> I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
> accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
> after graduation!
> Rania,
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org

From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 04:35:48 2011
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:35:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72E39FDCB31A46C6A933727BFEDF5F9D@AnjelinaPC>

Congratulations Rania!
I'm proud of you. How does it feel to finally be certified?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Rania Ismail
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:48 PM
To: nabs-l
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!

I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage 
therapist!
I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
after graduation!
Rania,

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com


Anjelina 



From graduate56 at juno.com  Sun Jan 23 10:50:07 2011
From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 03:50:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!
References: <AANLkTinSbEMZnOVGaH_pgEOJH=MhBfkXLk5XKE2r6wKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA16EEC711FD4A5DBC01B3BCE0E1ADF4@melissa>

Congratulations!

Blessings and kind regards
Melissa Green
"Just like a sunbeam can't separate itself from the sun, and a wave can't 
separate itself from the ocean, we can't separate ourselves from one 
another. We are all part of a vast sea of love, one indivisible divine 
mind."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rania Ismail" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
To: "nabs-l" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:48 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello Nabs! I have another update!


>I am proud to say that I am now a New Jersey State certified massage 
>therapist!
> I am on call at a local salon and am also renting a room from the
> accupuncturist near me so I can see the client's who stayed with me
> after graduation!
> Rania,
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com
>
> 



From rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us  Sun Jan 23 15:29:06 2011
From: rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us (Robert Miller)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:29:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] computer questions and leaving
In-Reply-To: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <10617366.1295661365357.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <46AD857062164534BF4778EF22C63A86@osb.local>

I use Windows live mail and it is very accessible. Like with anything new it 
will take some time to understand where everything is located.  I pasted a 
link below that I googled for you.  Try copying and pasting it in your web 
browser, if that doesn't get you there then just googled windows live mail 
shortcut keys you will find the link.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Windows-Mail-keyboard-shortcuts

--------------------------------------------------
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 7:56 PM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] computer questions and leaving

> Hi all,
> e
> I got a new computer  because the old one broke; this one does not have 
> outlook or outlook express.
> I need a mail client to effectively manage email that is accessible with 
> jaws 12 and windows 7.
>
> Anyone know if the windows live mail that replaced outlook express is 
> accessible? If so how do i find out commands?
>
> Until I figure out an accessible mail client or how to use windows live 
> mail i will unsubscribe from many lists in the near future.
>
> Feel free to reach me at bookwormahb at earthlink.net; i can also check 
> archives.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
>
> 


From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 17:40:45 2011
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 12:40:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
In-Reply-To: <7436344.1295750374048.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <7436344.1295750374048.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikHQBo5gTJw8+usRs-KU3fHTmS3VECkcqHeiQQW@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, ashley,
  Your understanding of the ribbon is correct, and it sounds like you
have figured out how to get to most of the menu options. This is
indeed the virtual ribbon feature we have been talking about. Good
luck with learning Windows 7!
   Katie

On 1/22/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Where is the virtual ribbobn feature?
> I checked out the ribbon setup in word and other applications.  There are
> two ribbons in the word processor if I see it right.  Jaws says there's an
> upper ribbon and lower ribbbon.  It seems that the lower ribbon gives you
> all the buttons with options, options that would have been in a menu in 2003
> versions.
> To select an option as I arrow to it, I think I press enter.  So when I hear
> "bullets" for instance I enter and arrow down to review the options under
> that option.  That is how I understand the ribbon bar thing.
> Ms word gives eight tabs in the upper ribbon.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>Sent: Jan 22, 2011 9:26 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
>>
>>The ribbon feature that was mentioned is called Virtual Ribbon. It is
>>new as of JAWS 12, and if you read the update features for JAWS 12, it
>>discusses it there. I have JAWS 11, but will be begging for an update
>>for that feature, and the bookmark feature for Word (insert a bookmark
>>with CTRL+Windows key+K, and go to it with WINDOWS Key+K). All of the
>>hotkeys (like CTRL + S, CTRL + O, and for formatting like bold and
>>underline) are there.
>>
>>On 1/22/11, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net> wrote:
>>> Actually, it is not christmas anymore. it is already getting
>>> closer to the end of January. Your signature is outdated. better
>>> update it.
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:08:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] windows accessibility
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>any accessibility challenges with windows 7 and if so what?
>>>>I use jaws 12. i notice jaws loses focus more and i refocus with
>>> alt tab.
>>>>Ashley
>>>
>>>>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>>> 5369%40netzero.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>~Jewel
>>Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>>Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 19:24:03 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:24:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
Message-ID: <4D3C8053.7080504@gmail.com>

Hi

Personally I cannot wait to graduate from college. When I went to 
college I spent much time at the numan center at least I think that's 
how it's spelled. Anyway its the place on campus for people who are 
catholic. Actually looking back on it I wish I had gone to a college in 
Pittsburg or Baltimore Maryland. I would have had access to good public 
transportation. Seems like so far in my life I grow up in a small town, 
go to college in a small town. get married move to another even smaller 
town. Then move to a town that in my opinion is pretending to be a city 
where nothing happens anyway. I don't care if it takes me 20 years I'm 
getting my degree from capella. And then if it takes me another 20 years 
to get a good paying 40k a year job well fine then. I attribute my 
current and past failures to growing up in a small town. When my mom 
realized she had a disabled child she should have moved us to Baltimore 
or Philadelphia at least in my opinion. then I would have had a better 
opportunity. I may be wrong about this completely but I think that blind 
people who grow up in farely large cities have more opportunities from 
the get go versus those who grow up in small towns. Grant-it my parents 
did the best they could. I got to go to costa rica, florida, bism, and 
one or two other places. But the rest of the time I was living a in  a 
small very small town. As a child it was fine maybe up through 8 or so 
years old. But after that it became so very boring nearly ever day I 
wished I lived somewhere else, anywhere else. in some place where 
something was happning. If I were my mom and I was raising me I would 
have given up the little safety zone of my small quiet town in the 
middle of nowhere and moved to a big city not for my own comfort but to 
give my child every opportunity to succeed I possibly could.
Another thing I don't get with sighted people is again lets take my mom 
for example. she drives 1 and a half hours to work each day. so that's 3 
hours of driving each day. 15 hours a week and 60 hours a month. that's 
about 3000 hours per year just driving back and forth to work. Now if we 
would have moved closer to where he worked. as in if we had lived in the 
same city then she could have spend thousands more hours with me. So 
part of my moving out getting married having a child means also that I 
have to not only take care of my family, I also have to correct my 
parents failures and the failures of the educational system. Oh it'll 
happen, slowly but surely it will happen I will correct ehrie their 
gheir failures.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 19:25:30 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:25:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
Message-ID: <4D3C80AA.6090600@gmail.com>

Hi

The first thing I'll do or one of the first things when and if I get to 
baltimore would be join the nfb chapter there. The support system at 
least here is non-existent.


From marsha.drenth at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 21:34:45 2011
From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 16:34:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
In-Reply-To: <4D3C80AA.6090600@gmail.com>
References: <4D3C80AA.6090600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C4BB3B78FBF48C488341375BF7F771F@Cptr233>

Josh,

As someone who has lived in Baltimore MD, for a little over a year, and now
living in PA. I honestly do not consider the public transportation in
Baltimore to be all that great. Yes it has a fixed route system, but if your
going to live in any sort of "nice" part of town, its going to take you a
few hours if not longer to get any where. Yes they have a light rail system,
but it also limiting on where it goes. Baltimore does not have
transportation like Philly, DC, or New York. Yes I understand your in a
small town now. And Yes I understand your not around a NFB chapter. The
Baltimore chapter is awesome, with awesome people. So that is a plus to
Baltimore, but with that said its not a factor you should be considering. If
your so wanting a NFB chapter in your area, then put one together. I am
sure, confident of it, that is you approached Jim Antonacci, and said you
wanted to do such a thing, he would talk to you. And even further more, if
you want to be affiliated with a NFB chapter, but because of your location,
maybe you should speak to Jim, about having a "at large chapter". I know, I
know, that there are others in the state, who for whatever reason can't get
to a chapter.  You say how horrible Redding is, are you aware that Redding
has a public transportation system? So if your taking online classes because
of the lack of transportation, and your having to rely on others for
everything, here is some information you might not have known about:
http://www.bartabus.com/ I found this with a simple google search. They do
have a paratransit system, if that is more of your style. I know your
troubles with transportation, my husband I live out of a fixed route system,
about 15 minutes from a train station. But we do have cabs, a paratransit
system, and can walk to grocery and other stores. I actually like it out
here in the country, as I am the only person, thus I have the great pleasure
of educating lots and lots of people what it means to be a successful blind
person. Now I am not sure what you mean about a support system? Don't you
have family near? What about a local church? If your need of help, and can
pay something, or exchange for a meal or whatever, find someone on Craig's
list. My point is, that the grass is always greener on the other side, but
you have what you have now, and you need to make the best out of it.   

Just some food for thoughts,
Marsha 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:26 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter

Hi

The first thing I'll do or one of the first things when and if I get to 
baltimore would be join the nfb chapter there. The support system at 
least here is non-existent.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
l.com
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5811 (20110123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5811 (20110123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From dstrick1 at roadrunner.com  Sun Jan 23 21:46:00 2011
From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com (dstrick1 at roadrunner.com)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 21:46:00 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
In-Reply-To: <4D3C8053.7080504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110123214600.ZPLOO.79073.root@cdptpa-web05-z02>

I believe your past successes and failures are what you make of them; you cannot blame your failures on anyone but yourself. They are the decisions that you made as an adult. If you do not learn from them you are doomed to repeat them. You repeatedly speak of goals but are doing nothing to further these ideas. On paper something may look good but if nothing is done to put the idea into action it is still time wasted. I grew up in a small town, I went to college in a small town and now I live outside of Los Angeles and am getting my doctorate. It was something that I wanted and I made it happen. My parents are not to blame for my decisions. I am solely responsible for them. You have had many opportunities that you have not taken advantage of over the past several years. You are going to school online. Why not join the work force doing something because if you think there are not people out there with the same degree and more experience looking for a job you are fooling yourself. There are thousands of people who have experience and cannot find work. Just because you get the degree does not guarantee you a job. What are you going to say when the interviewer asks you about work experience and you are 30 years-old? Also, you are saying you wish you went to college in a large city. Well, did you ever think that if you did that you would not have a wife or child? The past is the past, but I know the area in which you live and there are a lot more opportunities there then you lead people to believe. So, in closing I say strap on your boots and start forging your way through the sea of life!
---- Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Hi
> 
> Personally I cannot wait to graduate from college. When I went to 
> college I spent much time at the Neumann center at least I think that's 
> how it's spelled. Anyway its the place on campus for people who are 
> catholic. Actually looking back on it I wish I had gone to a college in 
> Pittsburgh or Baltimore Maryland. I would have had access to good public 
> transportation. Seems like so far in my life I grow up in a small town, 
> go to college in a small town. get married move to another even smaller 
> town. Then move to a town that in my opinion is pretending to be a city 
> where nothing happens anyway. I don't care if it takes me 20 years I'm 
> getting my degree from cappella. And then if it takes me another 20 years 
> to get a good paying 40 a year job well fine then. I attribute my 
> current and past failures to growing up in a small town. When my mom 
> realized she had a disabled child she should have moved us to Baltimore 
> or Philadelphia at least in my opinion. then I would have had a better 
> opportunity. I may be wrong about this completely but I think that blind 
> people who grow up in farely large cities have more opportunities from 
> the get go versus those who grow up in small towns. Grant-it my parents 
> did the best they could. I got to go to Costa Rica, Florida, bism, and 
> one or two other places. But the rest of the time I was living a in  a 
> small very small town. As a child it was fine maybe up through 8 or so 
> years old. But after that it became so very boring nearly ever day I 
> wished I lived somewhere else, anywhere else. in some place where 
> something was happening. If I were my mom and I was raising me I would 
> have given up the little safety zone of my small quiet town in the 
> middle of nowhere and moved to a big city not for my own comfort but to 
> give my child every opportunity to succeed I possibly could.
> Another thing I don't get with sighted people is again lets take my mom 
> for example. she drives 1 and a half hours to work each day. so that's 3 
> hours of driving each day. 15 hours a week and 60 hours a month. that's 
> about 3000 hours per year just driving back and forth to work. Now if we 
> would have moved closer to where he worked. as in if we had lived in the 
> same city then she could have spend thousands more hours with me. So 
> part of my moving out getting married having a child means also that I 
> have to not only take care of my family, I also have to correct my 
> parents failures and the failures of the educational system. Oh it'll 
> happen, slowly but surely it will happen I will correct ehrie their 
> gheir failures.
> 
> Josh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com


From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 00:06:24 2011
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:06:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] good news and bad news
Message-ID: <E5DB0E2648DB42589D8AFC40E2089990@AudioShockWave>

Hi All!
I've got good news and bad news. Bad news is that my stream provider has by accident taken my streaming server off line. So I can't stream this live. Good newsw is not that I saved a bunch on my car insurance by switching to Geico, but that it is still recording, and will be up for download. I'm also going to talk to the nabs membership committee about an idea that, if approved, will really help get ourselves out there beyond just this list and the nfb site. Details to hopefully come soon.
>From David

******
Looking for a unique sound and different definition of what awesome internet radio is all about? Looking to listen to and interact with a group of djs who strive for professionalism, but are fun and respect their listeners?
Look no further than AudioMirrorFM, a station with broadcasters from all over the world who play different types of music and enjoy interacting with you the listener. We're a group of broadcasters who love what we do, and we want to share that love with anyone who wants to tune in! So come on by and give us a look
http://www.audiomirrorfm.com

From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Mon Jan 24 00:07:39 2011
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:07:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
References: <4D3C80AA.6090600@gmail.com>
	<8C4BB3B78FBF48C488341375BF7F771F@Cptr233>
Message-ID: <001301cbbb5a$b736be20$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Marsha and everyone,

    Or join an at large chapter. Some states have them. Check with your 
state president as to whether your state has an at large chapter or not.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb chapter


Josh,

As someone who has lived in Baltimore MD, for a little over a year, and now
living in PA. I honestly do not consider the public transportation in
Baltimore to be all that great. Yes it has a fixed route system, but if your
going to live in any sort of "nice" part of town, its going to take you a
few hours if not longer to get any where. Yes they have a light rail system,
but it also limiting on where it goes. Baltimore does not have
transportation like Philly, DC, or New York. Yes I understand your in a
small town now. And Yes I understand your not around a NFB chapter. The
Baltimore chapter is awesome, with awesome people. So that is a plus to
Baltimore, but with that said its not a factor you should be considering. If
your so wanting a NFB chapter in your area, then put one together. I am
sure, confident of it, that is you approached Jim Antonacci, and said you
wanted to do such a thing, he would talk to you. And even further more, if
you want to be affiliated with a NFB chapter, but because of your location,
maybe you should speak to Jim, about having a "at large chapter". I know, I
know, that there are others in the state, who for whatever reason can't get
to a chapter.  You say how horrible Redding is, are you aware that Redding
has a public transportation system? So if your taking online classes because
of the lack of transportation, and your having to rely on others for
everything, here is some information you might not have known about:
http://www.bartabus.com/ I found this with a simple google search. They do
have a paratransit system, if that is more of your style. I know your
troubles with transportation, my husband I live out of a fixed route system,
about 15 minutes from a train station. But we do have cabs, a paratransit
system, and can walk to grocery and other stores. I actually like it out
here in the country, as I am the only person, thus I have the great pleasure
of educating lots and lots of people what it means to be a successful blind
person. Now I am not sure what you mean about a support system? Don't you
have family near? What about a local church? If your need of help, and can
pay something, or exchange for a meal or whatever, find someone on Craig's
list. My point is, that the grass is always greener on the other side, but
you have what you have now, and you need to make the best out of it.

Just some food for thoughts,
Marsha

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:26 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter

Hi

The first thing I'll do or one of the first things when and if I get to
baltimore would be join the nfb chapter there. The support system at
least here is non-existent.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
l.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5811 (20110123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5811 (20110123) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com 



From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 01:15:44 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 17:15:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
In-Reply-To: <4D3C8053.7080504@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <713646.93415.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Josh,
I do not know much about the area you live in; however, you appear to be going through a state of loss or grief by blaming others with angered feelings.  Based on your demographics and religious background, you will have more opportunities afforded to you in this country.  The unfortunate reality is that America culture bases people automatically on skin color and specific religious origins rather than actual characteristics of the individual.  As a white person, I denounce this ignorant practice; I feel our society still lives in a 1940S mentality.  I want you to consider the current political tea-party movements that have taken place since 2009.  We would not have seen these take place during the last presidential administration.  Those who would have participated in such behaviors would have been arrested and tried for treason.  This is one of the many reasons why I personally do not want to raze children in America.  
            I grew up in a small town and went to a school district with a graduating class of 12-1500.  Although I was one of several blind children in the school system, I faced many of the frustrations of being the popular student since I was disabled, lacking educational services, and limits placed upon me that were unusual limits not placed on other children.  
I always had the drive to be a self-sufficient adult with a better life than my childhood.  I was one of those individuals who felt that I was included and treated properly since I did not know of the laws and came from a family that felt the need to never disrupt the status-quo.  My family always supported me by making me feel that I was as normal as possible and just could not see.  I was always told that I could fit in like anyone else.  I just could not drive or fly.  Later in life I saw there well intentioned ideas quickly turn into the harsh reality of our culture of denial.  
Although some would say that I was razed in a world of make-believe, I feel that giving a child the drive to believe in themselves makes the individual handle the harsh reality with confidence to not lose sight of there agenda and goals.  
Josh, find your deep inner passion and be determined to get it regardless of what you are told when speaking to others or going through life.  Think big and dream big.  I see you writing that you would basically settle for a job with 40K or so, that is good; however, how will a job earning 40K help you save for the future and most importantly help the future of your family?  Maybe you have more resources than you are informed about.  Most importantly, you can network and be the driving force of change within your local community.  Maybe your county needs a chapter of NFB, ACB, etc.  I would tell you and others in your position  to understand the hand you have been delft realize that it is factual and that you have some important decisions to make to better yourself.  Bard also has many good books on inspirational topics for reading that you may be interested in.  

--- On Sun, 1/23/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 2:24 PM


Hi

Personally I cannot wait to graduate from college. When I went to college I spent much time at the numan center at least I think that's how it's spelled. Anyway its the place on campus for people who are catholic. Actually looking back on it I wish I had gone to a college in Pittsburg or Baltimore Maryland. I would have had access to good public transportation. Seems like so far in my life I grow up in a small town, go to college in a small town. get married move to another even smaller town. Then move to a town that in my opinion is pretending to be a city where nothing happens anyway. I don't care if it takes me 20 years I'm getting my degree from capella. And then if it takes me another 20 years to get a good paying 40k a year job well fine then. I attribute my current and past failures to growing up in a small town. When my mom realized she had a disabled child she should have moved us to Baltimore or Philadelphia at least in my opinion. then I would
 have had a better opportunity. I may be wrong about this completely but I think that blind people who grow up in farely large cities have more opportunities from the get go versus those who grow up in small towns. Grant-it my parents did the best they could. I got to go to costa rica, florida, bism, and one or two other places. But the rest of the time I was living a in  a small very small town. As a child it was fine maybe up through 8 or so years old. But after that it became so very boring nearly ever day I wished I lived somewhere else, anywhere else. in some place where something was happning. If I were my mom and I was raising me I would have given up the little safety zone of my small quiet town in the middle of nowhere and moved to a big city not for my own comfort but to give my child every opportunity to succeed I possibly could.
Another thing I don't get with sighted people is again lets take my mom for example. she drives 1 and a half hours to work each day. so that's 3 hours of driving each day. 15 hours a week and 60 hours a month. that's about 3000 hours per year just driving back and forth to work. Now if we would have moved closer to where he worked. as in if we had lived in the same city then she could have spend thousands more hours with me. So part of my moving out getting married having a child means also that I have to not only take care of my family, I also have to correct my parents failures and the failures of the educational system. Oh it'll happen, slowly but surely it will happen I will correct ehrie their gheir failures.

Josh

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      

From amylsabo at comcast.net  Mon Jan 24 01:26:39 2011
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 01:26:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] good news and bad news
In-Reply-To: <E5DB0E2648DB42589D8AFC40E2089990@AudioShockWave>
Message-ID: <643022047.1575914.1295832399461.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello david,

thanks for the news of good and bad! i'm sorry that your stream went bad and, that you couldn't stream what you wanted to stream for nabs and beyond! i bet that it's very frustrating for you... but, i knew of the good news for the joke!

as for getting the nabs out there besides the listserv and the web site this sounds exciting! i can't wait to hear all about it for sure!!!

you are keeping me in suspense... oh, well that's all for now take care and, i will talk to you soon!


hugs always,
from amy	

----- Original Message -----
From: David Dunphy <djdrocks4ever at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 00:06:24 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] good news and bad news

Hi All!
I've got good news and bad news. Bad news is that my stream provider has by accident taken my streaming server off line. So I can't stream this live. Good newsw is not that I saved a bunch on my car insurance by switching to Geico, but that it is still recording, and will be up for download. I'm also going to talk to the nabs membership committee about an idea that, if approved, will really help get ourselves out there beyond just this list and the nfb site. Details to hopefully come soon.
>From David

******
Looking for a unique sound and different definition of what awesome internet radio is all about? Looking to listen to and interact with a group of djs who strive for professionalism, but are fun and respect their listeners?
Look no further than AudioMirrorFM, a station with broadcasters from all over the world who play different types of music and enjoy interacting with you the listener. We're a group of broadcasters who love what we do, and we want to share that love with anyone who wants to tune in! So come on by and give us a look
http://www.audiomirrorfm.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 02:13:37 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 21:13:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
Message-ID: <2807000.1295835218252.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi Josh and all,
William had some good advice.  As for college, Josh you chose the online program so try it and finish it; you can always transfer or do another college if the program online doesn't work out.

As for the past and what your mother did or did not do, you cannot change that; yes cities and middle class communities have more resources and better services for the blind than rural counties.
But I know you in person, and do not know many here as actually people, and I'd say you seemed active and had  sevearal  opportunities; I met you in the summer youth program at Bism.
Whether blind or sighted, cities and suburbs have more opportunities for jobs, housing options, etc so moving may be a good option.
But research the area, determine your goals and make a move if that is best for you.  
Try not to dwell and grieve on the past; it gets you no where.  Set goals, be determined, and move on.
I'm sure you can do it!

Ashley
-----Original Message-----
>From: William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jan 23, 2011 8:15 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
>
>Josh,
>I do not know much about the area you live in; however, you appear to be going through a state of loss or grief by blaming others with angered feelings.  Based on your demographics and religious background, you will have more opportunities afforded to you in this country.  The unfortunate reality is that America culture bases people automatically on skin color and specific religious origins rather than actual characteristics of the individual.  As a white person, I denounce this ignorant practice; I feel our society still lives in a 1940S mentality.  I want you to consider the current political tea-party movements that have taken place since 2009.  We would not have seen these take place during the last presidential administration.  Those who would have participated in such behaviors would have been arrested and tried for treason.  This is one of the many reasons why I personally do not want to raze children in America.  
>            I grew up in a small town and went to a school district with a graduating class of 12-1500.  Although I was one of several blind children in the school system, I faced many of the frustrations of being the popular student since I was disabled, lacking educational services, and limits placed upon me that were unusual limits not placed on other children.  
>I always had the drive to be a self-sufficient adult with a better life than my childhood.  I was one of those individuals who felt that I was included and treated properly since I did not know of the laws and came from a family that felt the need to never disrupt the status-quo.  My family always supported me by making me feel that I was as normal as possible and just could not see.  I was always told that I could fit in like anyone else.  I just could not drive or fly.  Later in life I saw there well intentioned ideas quickly turn into the harsh reality of our culture of denial.  
>Although some would say that I was razed in a world of make-believe, I feel that giving a child the drive to believe in themselves makes the individual handle the harsh reality with confidence to not lose sight of there agenda and goals.  
>Josh, find your deep inner passion and be determined to get it regardless of what you are told when speaking to others or going through life.  Think big and dream big.  I see you writing that you would basically settle for a job with 40K or so, that is good; however, how will a job earning 40K help you save for the future and most importantly help the future of your family?  Maybe you have more resources than you are informed about.  Most importantly, you can network and be the driving force of change within your local community.  Maybe your county needs a chapter of NFB, ACB, etc.  I would tell you and others in your position  to understand the hand you have been delft realize that it is factual and that you have some important decisions to make to better yourself.  Bard also has many good books on inspirational topics for reading that you may be interested in.  
>
>--- On Sun, 1/23/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 2:24 PM
>
>
>Hi
>
>Personally I cannot wait to graduate from college. When I went to college I spent much time at the numan center at least I think that's how it's spelled. Anyway its the place on campus for people who are catholic. Actually looking back on it I wish I had gone to a college in Pittsburg or Baltimore Maryland. I would have had access to good public transportation. Seems like so far in my life I grow up in a small town, go to college in a small town. get married move to another even smaller town. Then move to a town that in my opinion is pretending to be a city where nothing happens anyway. I don't care if it takes me 20 years I'm getting my degree from capella. And then if it takes me another 20 years to get a good paying 40k a year job well fine then. I attribute my current and past failures to growing up in a small town. When my mom realized she had a disabled child she should have moved us to Baltimore or Philadelphia at least in my opinion. then I would
> have had a better opportunity. I may be wrong about this completely but I think that blind people who grow up in farely large cities have more opportunities from the get go versus those who grow up in small towns. Grant-it my parents did the best they could. I got to go to costa rica, florida, bism, and one or two other places. But the rest of the time I was living a in  a small very small town. As a child it was fine maybe up through 8 or so years old. But after that it became so very boring nearly ever day I wished I lived somewhere else, anywhere else. in some place where something was happning. If I were my mom and I was raising me I would have given up the little safety zone of my small quiet town in the middle of nowhere and moved to a big city not for my own comfort but to give my child every opportunity to succeed I possibly could.
>Another thing I don't get with sighted people is again lets take my mom for example. she drives 1 and a half hours to work each day. so that's 3 hours of driving each day. 15 hours a week and 60 hours a month. that's about 3000 hours per year just driving back and forth to work. Now if we would have moved closer to where he worked. as in if we had lived in the same city then she could have spend thousands more hours with me. So part of my moving out getting married having a child means also that I have to not only take care of my family, I also have to correct my parents failures and the failures of the educational system. Oh it'll happen, slowly but surely it will happen I will correct ehrie their gheir failures.
>
>Josh
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>      
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us  Mon Jan 24 02:21:48 2011
From: rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us (Robert Miller)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:21:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
In-Reply-To: <25970351.1295740174746.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <25970351.1295740174746.JavaMail.root@wamui-bucket.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B1FEF733C42A47738206FB24B30EC553@osb.local>

Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well.  Below I 
inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through the 
Ribbon and keyboard commands.  It starts as soon as the page loads.
http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033

--------------------------------------------------
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility

> Hi all,
>
> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything 
> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as 
> control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons 
> labeled? What access issues are there?
> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ashley Bramlett
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
>
> 


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 02:23:37 2011
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:23:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
In-Reply-To: <2807000.1295835218252.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <2807000.1295835218252.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikuxhhoOYMMe-GmLGS83NF7tdnSAVaoWDzSJC0j@mail.gmail.com>

William,
  I know I'm about to walk really close to the off topic border.
Nonetheless...I can't help being astounded by a few things you just
said.  Don't get me wrong, the general thrust of your message is, I
think, on the right track.  At least in this particular case.
But...what the heck does the Tea Party have to do with anything?
And...I'm assuming you were exagerating about the "arrested for
treason" bit.  Not only did the Tea Party have its roots as an
opposition to the Democratic congress under the Bush
administration...but there are fringe political parties out there,
with far stranger and more radical ideas than the Tea Party...and
their leaders haven't been arrested for anything.  So what makes you
think the tea party's different?

On 1/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Josh and all,
> William had some good advice.  As for college, Josh you chose the online
> program so try it and finish it; you can always transfer or do another
> college if the program online doesn't work out.
>
> As for the past and what your mother did or did not do, you cannot change
> that; yes cities and middle class communities have more resources and better
> services for the blind than rural counties.
> But I know you in person, and do not know many here as actually people, and
> I'd say you seemed active and had  sevearal  opportunities; I met you in the
> summer youth program at Bism.
> Whether blind or sighted, cities and suburbs have more opportunities for
> jobs, housing options, etc so moving may be a good option.
> But research the area, determine your goals and make a move if that is best
> for you.
> Try not to dwell and grieve on the past; it gets you no where.  Set goals,
> be determined, and move on.
> I'm sure you can do it!
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Jan 23, 2011 8:15 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
>>
>>Josh,
>>I do not know much about the area you live in; however, you appear to be
>> going through a state of loss or grief by blaming others with angered
>> feelings.  Based on your demographics and religious background, you will
>> have more opportunities afforded to you in this country.  The unfortunate
>> reality is that America culture bases people automatically on skin color
>> and specific religious origins rather than actual characteristics of the
>> individual.  As a white person, I denounce this ignorant practice; I feel
>> our society still lives in a 1940S mentality.  I want you to consider the
>> current political tea-party movements that have taken place since 2009.
>> We would not have seen these take place during the last presidential
>> administration.  Those who would have participated in such behaviors would
>> have been arrested and tried for treason.  This is one of the many reasons
>> why I personally do not want to raze children in America.
>>            I grew up in a small town and went to a school district with a
>> graduating class of 12-1500.  Although I was one of several blind children
>> in the school system, I faced many of the frustrations of being the
>> popular student since I was disabled, lacking educational services, and
>> limits placed upon me that were unusual limits not placed on other
>> children.
>>I always had the drive to be a self-sufficient adult with a better life
>> than my childhood.  I was one of those individuals who felt that I was
>> included and treated properly since I did not know of the laws and came
>> from a family that felt the need to never disrupt the status-quo.  My
>> family always supported me by making me feel that I was as normal as
>> possible and just could not see.  I was always told that I could fit in
>> like anyone else.  I just could not drive or fly.  Later in life I saw
>> there well intentioned ideas quickly turn into the harsh reality of our
>> culture of denial.
>>Although some would say that I was razed in a world of make-believe, I feel
>> that giving a child the drive to believe in themselves makes the
>> individual handle the harsh reality with confidence to not lose sight of
>> there agenda and goals.
>>Josh, find your deep inner passion and be determined to get it regardless
>> of what you are told when speaking to others or going through life.  Think
>> big and dream big.  I see you writing that you would basically settle for
>> a job with 40K or so, that is good; however, how will a job earning 40K
>> help you save for the future and most importantly help the future of your
>> family?  Maybe you have more resources than you are informed about.  Most
>> importantly, you can network and be the driving force of change within
>> your local community.  Maybe your county needs a chapter of NFB, ACB, etc.
>>  I would tell you and others in your position  to understand the hand you
>> have been delft realize that it is factual and that you have some
>> important decisions to make to better yourself.  Bard also has many good
>> books on inspirational topics for reading that you may be interested in.
>>
>>--- On Sun, 1/23/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>>Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 2:24 PM
>>
>>
>>Hi
>>
>>Personally I cannot wait to graduate from college. When I went to college I
>> spent much time at the numan center at least I think that's how it's
>> spelled. Anyway its the place on campus for people who are catholic.
>> Actually looking back on it I wish I had gone to a college in Pittsburg or
>> Baltimore Maryland. I would have had access to good public transportation.
>> Seems like so far in my life I grow up in a small town, go to college in a
>> small town. get married move to another even smaller town. Then move to a
>> town that in my opinion is pretending to be a city where nothing happens
>> anyway. I don't care if it takes me 20 years I'm getting my degree from
>> capella. And then if it takes me another 20 years to get a good paying 40k
>> a year job well fine then. I attribute my current and past failures to
>> growing up in a small town. When my mom realized she had a disabled child
>> she should have moved us to Baltimore or Philadelphia at least in my
>> opinion. then I would
>> have had a better opportunity. I may be wrong about this completely but I
>> think that blind people who grow up in farely large cities have more
>> opportunities from the get go versus those who grow up in small towns.
>> Grant-it my parents did the best they could. I got to go to costa rica,
>> florida, bism, and one or two other places. But the rest of the time I was
>> living a in  a small very small town. As a child it was fine maybe up
>> through 8 or so years old. But after that it became so very boring nearly
>> ever day I wished I lived somewhere else, anywhere else. in some place
>> where something was happning. If I were my mom and I was raising me I
>> would have given up the little safety zone of my small quiet town in the
>> middle of nowhere and moved to a big city not for my own comfort but to
>> give my child every opportunity to succeed I possibly could.
>>Another thing I don't get with sighted people is again lets take my mom for
>> example. she drives 1 and a half hours to work each day. so that's 3 hours
>> of driving each day. 15 hours a week and 60 hours a month. that's about
>> 3000 hours per year just driving back and forth to work. Now if we would
>> have moved closer to where he worked. as in if we had lived in the same
>> city then she could have spend thousands more hours with me. So part of my
>> moving out getting married having a child means also that I have to not
>> only take care of my family, I also have to correct my parents failures
>> and the failures of the educational system. Oh it'll happen, slowly but
>> surely it will happen I will correct ehrie their gheir failures.
>>
>>Josh
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>


From jamandgab at izoom.net  Mon Jan 24 02:27:23 2011
From: jamandgab at izoom.net (Melissa )
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:27:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Microsoft 2010 and accessibility
Message-ID: <022801cbbb6e$3c84bd80$b58e3880$@izoom.net>

One of the biggest differences you'll notice, besides the ribbons, is the
backstage view, which is used in place of the file menu.  Pressing ALT F
will open this, and you arrow up and down through your options, i.e. save,
save as, print; then tab for options within that area.
Warmly,
Melissa

Melissa Riley
jamandgab at izoom.net
riley365 at umn.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Miller
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:22 PM
To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility

Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well.  Below I
inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through the
Ribbon and keyboard commands.  It starts as soon as the page loads.
http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033

--------------------------------------------------
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility

> Hi all,
>
> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything 
> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such 
> as control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all 
> buttons labeled? What access issues are there?
> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ashley Bramlett
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
>
> 

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoom.ne
t



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 02:51:05 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 21:51:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
Message-ID: <27965023.1295837465364.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi,
Well word 2010 doesn't seem as user frienddly although may be accessibile.  I'll check out the link!

Things are certainly where I thought they'd be!  
Do I down arrow to see the options in the ribbon?
There's eight tabs.

Questions
1. How do i find the thesaurus?
2. Where do you find outlines like II and ABC?
3. Where do  you get the word count; used to be under the tools menu.
Quite important for students.

4. How do you insert a table? That was under the table menu and the insert option in 2003.
I may be able to get some training through the lighthouse here; for now I'm learning/exploring myself.
I don't have much patience with new technology!
Thanks!

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>
>Sent: Jan 23, 2011 9:21 PM
>To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>
>Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well.  Below I 
>inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through the 
>Ribbon and keyboard commands.  It starts as soon as the page loads.
>http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
>> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything 
>> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as 
>> control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons 
>> labeled? What access issues are there?
>> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Ashley Bramlett
>>
>>
>> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>>
>>
>> 
Robert and all,
I will check out that link.  So far I looked over the ribbons in word; two ribbons, upper and lower and the lower appears to give you options under that tab.  But it doesn't seem as user friendly.  With the menus in 2003 I could arrow down the menus and/or press the first letter of the option i wanted like t for thesaurus.  Now all these buttons don't seem to give easy shortcuts and navigation.
To see my options on the lower ribbon, do I down arrow?

Some questions:
1. Where do I find thesaurus?
2. Where do I find the box giving you the word count/character count? It used to be under tools.
3. 


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From dstrick1 at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan 24 03:04:23 2011
From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com (dstrick1 at roadrunner.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 3:04:23 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
In-Reply-To: <27965023.1295837465364.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20110124030423.T54UX.80914.root@cdptpa-web05-z02>

1. the thesaurus is under the applications menu there is a menu under there that has suggestions and if you press the enter key on one of them you will replace the previous word with the new one.
2. the table function is found if you press alt+a then I then T and the same dialog will appear.
3. word count can be found if you read the bottom of the window. jaws key insert+page down.
4. outlines can be started if you start typing the auto complete function will pick up what you are trying to do. 
also, to get from the tabs hit the tab key and you will be placed in the functions of that ribbon. to cycle through the tabs press the right and left arrows.
Finally, I would turn off the jaws virtual ribbon function. I have found it to be more tedious than the actual ribbons from microsoft.

HTH,
Derrick
---- bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: 
> Hi,
> Well word 2010 doesn't seem as user frienddly although may be accessibile.  I'll check out the link!
> 
> Things are certainly where I thought they'd be!  
> Do I down arrow to see the options in the ribbon?
> There's eight tabs.
> 
> Questions
> 1. How do i find the thesaurus?
> 2. Where do you find outlines like II and ABC?
> 3. Where do  you get the word count; used to be under the tools menu.
> Quite important for students.
> 
> 4. How do you insert a table? That was under the table menu and the insert option in 2003.
> I may be able to get some training through the lighthouse here; for now I'm learning/exploring myself.
> I don't have much patience with new technology!
> Thanks!
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>
> >Sent: Jan 23, 2011 9:21 PM
> >To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
> >
> >Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well.  Below I 
> >inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through the 
> >Ribbon and keyboard commands.  It starts as soon as the page loads.
> >http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------
> >From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
> >To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
> >> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything 
> >> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as 
> >> control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons 
> >> labeled? What access issues are there?
> >> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Ashley Bramlett
> >>
> >>
> >> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> Robert and all,
> I will check out that link.  So far I looked over the ribbons in word; two ribbons, upper and lower and the lower appears to give you options under that tab.  But it doesn't seem as user friendly.  With the menus in 2003 I could arrow down the menus and/or press the first letter of the option i wanted like t for thesaurus.  Now all these buttons don't seem to give easy shortcuts and navigation.
> To see my options on the lower ribbon, do I down arrow?
> 
> Some questions:
> 1. Where do I find thesaurus?
> 2. Where do I find the box giving you the word count/character count? It used to be under tools.
> 3. 
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 03:13:15 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 22:13:15 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
Message-ID: <3574149.1295838795806.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi,
I second that.  I was going to say that but someone who lived in Baltimore makes the case stronger!  Nfb chapters should not be a factor in moving.
I also think you should research the transportation options before believing "the grass is greener" over in the big city because as Marsha said, the fixed route system has a lot to be desired.  

Josh, I'd encourage you to help start an "at large" chapter of NFB because there are many others like you who want the support and philosophy of nfb but cannot get to a chapter meeting.  We have such a chapter in VA and it meets by conference call once a month.
Next what you're really seeking is social compionship it seems; why not join a church bible study or something; you mentioned you liked the religious activities when you were at a real campus, Kutztown university I think.
Why not volunteer? That will give you the social interaction and the experience needed for a resume.  As someone else said, think of when you're 30 looking for work, and the interviewer asks about work experience?  They look for experience-- proof you can do the work, just as much as the degree.
HTH,
Ashley


-----Original Message-----
>From: Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 23, 2011 4:34 PM
>To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
>
>Josh,
>
>As someone who has lived in Baltimore MD, for a little over a year, and now
>living in PA. I honestly do not consider the public transportation in
>Baltimore to be all that great. Yes it has a fixed route system, but if your
>going to live in any sort of "nice" part of town, its going to take you a
>few hours if not longer to get any where. Yes they have a light rail system,
>but it also limiting on where it goes. Baltimore does not have
>transportation like Philly, DC, or New York. Yes I understand your in a
>small town now. And Yes I understand your not around a NFB chapter. The
>Baltimore chapter is awesome, with awesome people. So that is a plus to
>Baltimore, but with that said its not a factor you should be considering. If
>your so wanting a NFB chapter in your area, then put one together. I am
>sure, confident of it, that is you approached Jim Antonacci, and said you
>wanted to do such a thing, he would talk to you. And even further more, if
>you want to be affiliated with a NFB chapter, but because of your location,
>maybe you should speak to Jim, about having a "at large chapter". I know, I
>know, that there are others in the state, who for whatever reason can't get
>to a chapter.  You say how horrible Redding is, are you aware that Redding
>has a public transportation system? So if your taking online classes because
>of the lack of transportation, and your having to rely on others for
>everything, here is some information you might not have known about:
>http://www.bartabus.com/ I found this with a simple google search. They do
>have a paratransit system, if that is more of your style. I know your
>troubles with transportation, my husband I live out of a fixed route system,
>about 15 minutes from a train station. But we do have cabs, a paratransit
>system, and can walk to grocery and other stores. I actually like it out
>here in the country, as I am the only person, thus I have the great pleasure
>of educating lots and lots of people what it means to be a successful blind
>person. Now I am not sure what you mean about a support system? Don't you
>have family near? What about a local church? If your need of help, and can
>pay something, or exchange for a meal or whatever, find someone on Craig's
>list. My point is, that the grass is always greener on the other side, but
>you have what you have now, and you need to make the best out of it.   
>
>Just some food for thoughts,
>Marsha 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Josh Kennedy
>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:26 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
>
>Hi
>
>The first thing I'll do or one of the first things when and if I get to 
>baltimore would be join the nfb chapter there. The support system at 
>least here is non-existent.
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
>l.com
> 
>
>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>database 5811 (20110123) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>http://www.eset.com
> 
> 
>
>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>database 5811 (20110123) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>http://www.eset.com
> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 03:19:03 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 22:19:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
Message-ID: <4889549.1295839144118.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Thanks; hadn't heard of the insert page down command.



-----Original Message-----
>From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com
>Sent: Jan 23, 2011 10:04 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>
>1. the thesaurus is under the applications menu there is a menu under there that has suggestions and if you press the enter key on one of them you will replace the previous word with the new one.
>2. the table function is found if you press alt+a then I then T and the same dialog will appear.
>3. word count can be found if you read the bottom of the window. jaws key insert+page down.
>4. outlines can be started if you start typing the auto complete function will pick up what you are trying to do. 
>also, to get from the tabs hit the tab key and you will be placed in the functions of that ribbon. to cycle through the tabs press the right and left arrows.
>Finally, I would turn off the jaws virtual ribbon function. I have found it to be more tedious than the actual ribbons from microsoft.
>
>HTH,
>Derrick
>---- bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: 
>> Hi,
>> Well word 2010 doesn't seem as user frienddly although may be accessibile.  I'll check out the link!
>> 
>> Things are certainly where I thought they'd be!  
>> Do I down arrow to see the options in the ribbon?
>> There's eight tabs.
>> 
>> Questions
>> 1. How do i find the thesaurus?
>> 2. Where do you find outlines like II and ABC?
>> 3. Where do  you get the word count; used to be under the tools menu.
>> Quite important for students.
>> 
>> 4. How do you insert a table? That was under the table menu and the insert option in 2003.
>> I may be able to get some training through the lighthouse here; for now I'm learning/exploring myself.
>> I don't have much patience with new technology!
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>
>> >Sent: Jan 23, 2011 9:21 PM
>> >To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>> >
>> >Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well.  Below I 
>> >inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through the 
>> >Ribbon and keyboard commands.  It starts as soon as the page loads.
>> >http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033
>> >
>> >--------------------------------------------------
>> >From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> >Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
>> >To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
>> >> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything 
>> >> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as 
>> >> control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons 
>> >> labeled? What access issues are there?
>> >> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> Ashley Bramlett
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 
>> Robert and all,
>> I will check out that link.  So far I looked over the ribbons in word; two ribbons, upper and lower and the lower appears to give you options under that tab.  But it doesn't seem as user friendly.  With the menus in 2003 I could arrow down the menus and/or press the first letter of the option i wanted like t for thesaurus.  Now all these buttons don't seem to give easy shortcuts and navigation.
>> To see my options on the lower ribbon, do I down arrow?
>> 
>> Some questions:
>> 1. Where do I find thesaurus?
>> 2. Where do I find the box giving you the word count/character count? It used to be under tools.
>> 3. 
>> 
>> 
>> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 03:54:25 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:54:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
In-Reply-To: <3574149.1295838795806.JavaMail.root@wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <712382.64984.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Let us see if this message comes across (with all proper text)!
Josh,
In regard to living in a big city with fixed transportation routes, many of the routes have diversions, delays, etc.  I live in Manhattan, NY.  We have over 100 buses in the New York City Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA); we have over 50 different subway lines and 100 different commuter rail line options covering the Tri-state area.  I am including the Port Authority path options as well as the New York Waterway taxi services when talking about the overall transit system.  
I have taken fixed bus routes many times while traveling throughout the city.  As the great transportation options abound, we when thinking of locating to a major city, one needs to decide on what options they want for transportation.  Since the economy is struggling, we are experiencing many faults within the bus and rail system where more limited options are happening causing riders to be stranded at specific times of the day.  In some locations, we are now experiencing full elimination of subway and bus lines where the city has deemed transportation rider ship small and minute.  Hope this information helps while you research transit options for the areas you want to live in.
--- On Sun, 1/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:


From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:13 PM



Hi,
I second that.  I was going to say that but someone who lived in Baltimore makes the case stronger!  Nfb chapters should not be a factor in moving.
I also think you should research the transportation options before believing "the grass is greener" over in the big city because as Marsha said, the fixed route system has a lot to be desired.  

Josh, I'd encourage you to help start an "at large" chapter of NFB because there are many others like you who want the support and philosophy of nfb but cannot get to a chapter meeting.  We have such a chapter in VA and it meets by conference call once a month.
Next what you're really seeking is social compionship it seems; why not join a church bible study or something; you mentioned you liked the religious activities when you were at a real campus, Kutztown university I think.
Why not volunteer? That will give you the social interaction and the experience needed for a resume.  As someone else said, think of when you're 30 looking for work, and the interviewer asks about work experience?  They look for experience-- proof you can do the work, just as much as the degree.
HTH,
Ashley


-----Original Message-----
>From: Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 23, 2011 4:34 PM
>To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
>
>Josh,
>
>As someone who has lived in Baltimore MD, for a little over a year, and now
>living in PA. I honestly do not consider the public transportation in
>Baltimore to be all that great. Yes it has a fixed route system, but if your
>going to live in any sort of "nice" part of town, its going to take you a
>few hours if not longer to get any where. Yes they have a light rail system,
>but it also limiting on where it goes. Baltimore does not have
>transportation like Philly, DC, or New York. Yes I understand your in a
>small town now. And Yes I understand your not around a NFB chapter. The
>Baltimore chapter is awesome, with awesome people. So that is a plus to
>Baltimore, but with that said its not a factor you should be considering. If
>your so wanting a NFB chapter in your area, then put one together. I am
>sure, confident of it, that is you approached Jim Antonacci, and said you
>wanted to do such a thing, he would talk to you. And even further more, if
>you want to be affiliated with a NFB chapter, but because of your location,
>maybe you should speak to Jim, about having a "at large chapter". I know, I
>know, that there are others in the state, who for whatever reason can't get
>to a chapter.  You say how horrible Redding is, are you aware that Redding
>has a public transportation system? So if your taking online classes because
>of the lack of transportation, and your having to rely on others for
>everything, here is some information you might not have known about:
>http://www.bartabus.com/ I found this with a simple google search. They do
>have a paratransit system, if that is more of your style. I know your
>troubles with transportation, my husband I live out of a fixed route system,
>about 15 minutes from a train station. But we do have cabs, a paratransit
>system, and can walk to grocery and other stores. I actually like it out
>here in the country, as I am the only person, thus I have the great pleasure
>of educating lots and lots of people what it means to be a successful blind
>person. Now I am not sure what you mean about a support system? Don't you
>have family near? What about a local church? If your need of help, and can
>pay something, or exchange for a meal or whatever, find someone on Craig's
>list. My point is, that the grass is always greener on the other side, but
>you have what you have now, and you need to make the best out of it.   
>
>Just some food for thoughts,
>Marsha 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Josh Kennedy
>Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:26 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] nfb chapter
>
>Hi
>
>The first thing I'll do or one of the first things when and if I get to 
>baltimore would be join the nfb chapter there. The support system at 
>least here is non-existent.
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
>l.com
> 
>
>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>database 5811 (20110123) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>http://www.eset.com
> 
> 
>
>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>database 5811 (20110123) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>http://www.eset.com
> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      

From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 03:57:25 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:57:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
In-Reply-To: <20110124030423.T54UX.80914.root@cdptpa-web05-z02>
Message-ID: <900045.94631.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Am I correct in understanding that this product works well for individuals with low vision and with a program like Jaws or NVDA?  I do not see the option for a voiced guided system.  I have some individuals with other multiple disabilities who are interested in using something that is voice-guided.
Thank you.

--- On Sun, 1/23/11, dstrick1 at roadrunner.com <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com> wrote:


From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:04 PM


1. the thesaurus is under the applications menu there is a menu under there that has suggestions and if you press the enter key on one of them you will replace the previous word with the new one.
2. the table function is found if you press alt+a then I then T and the same dialog will appear.
3. word count can be found if you read the bottom of the window. jaws key insert+page down.
4. outlines can be started if you start typing the auto complete function will pick up what you are trying to do. 
also, to get from the tabs hit the tab key and you will be placed in the functions of that ribbon. to cycle through the tabs press the right and left arrows.
Finally, I would turn off the jaws virtual ribbon function. I have found it to be more tedious than the actual ribbons from microsoft.

HTH,
Derrick
---- bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: 
> Hi,
> Well word 2010 doesn't seem as user frienddly although may be accessibile.  I'll check out the link!
> 
> Things are certainly where I thought they'd be!  
> Do I down arrow to see the options in the ribbon?
> There's eight tabs.
> 
> Questions
> 1. How do i find the thesaurus?
> 2. Where do you find outlines like II and ABC?
> 3. Where do  you get the word count; used to be under the tools menu.
> Quite important for students.
> 
> 4. How do you insert a table? That was under the table menu and the insert option in 2003.
> I may be able to get some training through the lighthouse here; for now I'm learning/exploring myself.
> I don't have much patience with new technology!
> Thanks!
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>
> >Sent: Jan 23, 2011 9:21 PM
> >To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
> >
> >Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well.  Below I 
> >inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through the 
> >Ribbon and keyboard commands.  It starts as soon as the page loads.
> >http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------
> >From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
> >To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
> >> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything 
> >> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as 
> >> control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons 
> >> labeled? What access issues are there?
> >> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Ashley Bramlett
> >>
> >>
> >> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> Robert and all,
> I will check out that link.  So far I looked over the ribbons in word; two ribbons, upper and lower and the lower appears to give you options under that tab.  But it doesn't seem as user friendly.  With the menus in 2003 I could arrow down the menus and/or press the first letter of the option i wanted like t for thesaurus.  Now all these buttons don't seem to give easy shortcuts and navigation.
> To see my options on the lower ribbon, do I down arrow?
> 
> Some questions:
> 1. Where do I find thesaurus?
> 2. Where do I find the box giving you the word count/character count? It used to be under tools.
> 3. 
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      

From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 04:01:01 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:01:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikuxhhoOYMMe-GmLGS83NF7tdnSAVaoWDzSJC0j@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <954122.93466.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The message text was cut-off since some of the message was to say:
"some individuals have said that ..." 

--- On Sun, 1/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 9:23 PM


William,
  I know I'm about to walk really close to the off topic border.
Nonetheless...I can't help being astounded by a few things you just
said.  Don't get me wrong, the general thrust of your message is, I
think, on the right track.  At least in this particular case.
But...what the heck does the Tea Party have to do with anything?
And...I'm assuming you were exagerating about the "arrested for
treason" bit.  Not only did the Tea Party have its roots as an
opposition to the Democratic congress under the Bush
administration...but there are fringe political parties out there,
with far stranger and more radical ideas than the Tea Party...and
their leaders haven't been arrested for anything.  So what makes you
think the tea party's different?

On 1/23/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Josh and all,
> William had some good advice.  As for college, Josh you chose the online
> program so try it and finish it; you can always transfer or do another
> college if the program online doesn't work out.
>
> As for the past and what your mother did or did not do, you cannot change
> that; yes cities and middle class communities have more resources and better
> services for the blind than rural counties.
> But I know you in person, and do not know many here as actually people, and
> I'd say you seemed active and had  sevearal  opportunities; I met you in the
> summer youth program at Bism.
> Whether blind or sighted, cities and suburbs have more opportunities for
> jobs, housing options, etc so moving may be a good option.
> But research the area, determine your goals and make a move if that is best
> for you.
> Try not to dwell and grieve on the past; it gets you no where.  Set goals,
> be determined, and move on.
> I'm sure you can do it!
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Jan 23, 2011 8:15 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
>>
>>Josh,
>>I do not know much about the area you live in; however, you appear to be
>> going through a state of loss or grief by blaming others with angered
>> feelings.  Based on your demographics and religious background, you will
>> have more opportunities afforded to you in this country.  The unfortunate
>> reality is that America culture bases people automatically on skin color
>> and specific religious origins rather than actual characteristics of the
>> individual.  As a white person, I denounce this ignorant practice; I feel
>> our society still lives in a 1940S mentality.  I want you to consider the
>> current political tea-party movements that have taken place since 2009.
>> We would not have seen these take place during the last presidential
>> administration.  Those who would have participated in such behaviors would
>> have been arrested and tried for treason.  This is one of the many reasons
>> why I personally do not want to raze children in America.
>>            I grew up in a small town and went to a school district with a
>> graduating class of 12-1500.  Although I was one of several blind children
>> in the school system, I faced many of the frustrations of being the
>> popular student since I was disabled, lacking educational services, and
>> limits placed upon me that were unusual limits not placed on other
>> children.
>>I always had the drive to be a self-sufficient adult with a better life
>> than my childhood.  I was one of those individuals who felt that I was
>> included and treated properly since I did not know of the laws and came
>> from a family that felt the need to never disrupt the status-quo.  My
>> family always supported me by making me feel that I was as normal as
>> possible and just could not see.  I was always told that I could fit in
>> like anyone else.  I just could not drive or fly.  Later in life I saw
>> there well intentioned ideas quickly turn into the harsh reality of our
>> culture of denial.
>>Although some would say that I was razed in a world of make-believe, I feel
>> that giving a child the drive to believe in themselves makes the
>> individual handle the harsh reality with confidence to not lose sight of
>> there agenda and goals.
>>Josh, find your deep inner passion and be determined to get it regardless
>> of what you are told when speaking to others or going through life.  Think
>> big and dream big.  I see you writing that you would basically settle for
>> a job with 40K or so, that is good; however, how will a job earning 40K
>> help you save for the future and most importantly help the future of your
>> family?  Maybe you have more resources than you are informed about.  Most
>> importantly, you can network and be the driving force of change within
>> your local community.  Maybe your county needs a chapter of NFB, ACB, etc.
>>  I would tell you and others in your position  to understand the hand you
>> have been delft realize that it is factual and that you have some
>> important decisions to make to better yourself.  Bard also has many good
>> books on inspirational topics for reading that you may be interested in.
>>
>>--- On Sun, 1/23/11, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>>Subject: [nabs-l] re college classes vs high school classes
>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 2:24 PM
>>
>>
>>Hi
>>
>>Personally I cannot wait to graduate from college. When I went to college I
>> spent much time at the numan center at least I think that's how it's
>> spelled. Anyway its the place on campus for people who are catholic.
>> Actually looking back on it I wish I had gone to a college in Pittsburg or
>> Baltimore Maryland. I would have had access to good public transportation.
>> Seems like so far in my life I grow up in a small town, go to college in a
>> small town. get married move to another even smaller town. Then move to a
>> town that in my opinion is pretending to be a city where nothing happens
>> anyway. I don't care if it takes me 20 years I'm getting my degree from
>> capella. And then if it takes me another 20 years to get a good paying 40k
>> a year job well fine then. I attribute my current and past failures to
>> growing up in a small town. When my mom realized she had a disabled child
>> she should have moved us to Baltimore or Philadelphia at least in my
>> opinion. then I would
>> have had a better opportunity. I may be wrong about this completely but I
>> think that blind people who grow up in farely large cities have more
>> opportunities from the get go versus those who grow up in small towns.
>> Grant-it my parents did the best they could. I got to go to costa rica,
>> florida, bism, and one or two other places. But the rest of the time I was
>> living a in  a small very small town. As a child it was fine maybe up
>> through 8 or so years old. But after that it became so very boring nearly
>> ever day I wished I lived somewhere else, anywhere else. in some place
>> where something was happning. If I were my mom and I was raising me I
>> would have given up the little safety zone of my small quiet town in the
>> middle of nowhere and moved to a big city not for my own comfort but to
>> give my child every opportunity to succeed I possibly could.
>>Another thing I don't get with sighted people is again lets take my mom for
>> example. she drives 1 and a half hours to work each day. so that's 3 hours
>> of driving each day. 15 hours a week and 60 hours a month. that's about
>> 3000 hours per year just driving back and forth to work. Now if we would
>> have moved closer to where he worked. as in if we had lived in the same
>> city then she could have spend thousands more hours with me. So part of my
>> moving out getting married having a child means also that I have to not
>> only take care of my family, I also have to correct my parents failures
>> and the failures of the educational system. Oh it'll happen, slowly but
>> surely it will happen I will correct ehrie their gheir failures.
>>
>>Josh
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com



      

From dstrick1 at roadrunner.com  Mon Jan 24 04:32:53 2011
From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com (dstrick1 at roadrunner.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 4:32:53 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
In-Reply-To: <900045.94631.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20110124043253.4U18B.81303.root@cdptpa-web05-z02>

There are options that are available for using speach to control the computer in programs like ms word but the only one that I know of is Dragon naturally speaking from nuance. There is one built into windows but I do not know how good either of these packages are as I do not use them myself. However, Word is fully accessible with Jaws. Also not sure about NVDA as I do not use it either.
---- William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> Am I correct in understanding that this product works well for individuals with low vision and with a program like Jaws or NVDA?  I do not see the option for a voiced guided system.  I have some individuals with other multiple disabilities who are interested in using something that is voice-guided.
> Thank you.
> 
> --- On Sun, 1/23/11, dstrick1 at roadrunner.com <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:04 PM
> 
> 
> 1. the thesaurus is under the applications menu there is a menu under there that has suggestions and if you press the enter key on one of them you will replace the previous word with the new one.
> 2. the table function is found if you press alt+a then I then T and the same dialog will appear.
> 3. word count can be found if you read the bottom of the window. jaws key insert+page down.
> 4. outlines can be started if you start typing the auto complete function will pick up what you are trying to do. 
> also, to get from the tabs hit the tab key and you will be placed in the functions of that ribbon. to cycle through the tabs press the right and left arrows.
> Finally, I would turn off the jaws virtual ribbon function. I have found it to be more tedious than the actual ribbons from microsoft.
> 
> HTH,
> Derrick
> ---- bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: 
> > Hi,
> > Well word 2010 doesn't seem as user frienddly although may be accessibile.  I'll check out the link!
> > 
> > Things are certainly where I thought they'd be!  
> > Do I down arrow to see the options in the ribbon?
> > There's eight tabs.
> > 
> > Questions
> > 1. How do i find the thesaurus?
> > 2. Where do you find outlines like II and ABC?
> > 3. Where do  you get the word count; used to be under the tools menu.
> > Quite important for students.
> > 
> > 4. How do you insert a table? That was under the table menu and the insert option in 2003.
> > I may be able to get some training through the lighthouse here; for now I'm learning/exploring myself.
> > I don't have much patience with new technology!
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > Ashley
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>
> > >Sent: Jan 23, 2011 9:21 PM
> > >To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
> > >
> > >Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well.  Below I 
> > >inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through the 
> > >Ribbon and keyboard commands.  It starts as soon as the page loads.
> > >http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033
> > >
> > >--------------------------------------------------
> > >From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> > >Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
> > >To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > >Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
> > >> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is everything 
> > >> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12.  Do all shortcut commands such as 
> > >> control s for save or control F for find still work?  Are all buttons 
> > >> labeled? What access issues are there?
> > >> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 2010?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks!
> > >>
> > >> Ashley Bramlett
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 
> > Robert and all,
> > I will check out that link.  So far I looked over the ribbons in word; two ribbons, upper and lower and the lower appears to give you options under that tab.  But it doesn't seem as user friendly.  With the menus in 2003 I could arrow down the menus and/or press the first letter of the option i wanted like t for thesaurus.  Now all these buttons don't seem to give easy shortcuts and navigation.
> > To see my options on the lower ribbon, do I down arrow?
> > 
> > Some questions:
> > 1. Where do I find thesaurus?
> > 2. Where do I find the box giving you the word count/character count? It used to be under tools.
> > 3. 
> > 
> > 
> > Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Jan 24 04:42:56 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:42:56 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
References: <20110124043253.4U18B.81303.root@cdptpa-web05-z02>
Message-ID: <8ACA2DA20939449A893AB49143D5488A@stanford.edu>

I have experimented with the Speech Recognition that comes with both Vista 
and Windows 7. If you train it and use a good microphone, such as one on a 
head set, you can get pretty good results.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility


> There are options that are available for using speach to control the 
> computer in programs like ms word but the only one that I know of is 
> Dragon naturally speaking from nuance. There is one built into windows but 
> I do not know how good either of these packages are as I do not use them 
> myself. However, Word is fully accessible with Jaws. Also not sure about 
> NVDA as I do not use it either.
> ---- William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Am I correct in understanding that this product works well for 
>> individuals with low vision and with a program like Jaws or NVDA? I do 
>> not see the option for a voiced guided system. I have some individuals 
>> with other multiple disabilities who are interested in using something 
>> that is voice-guided.
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --- On Sun, 1/23/11, dstrick1 at roadrunner.com <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: dstrick1 at roadrunner.com <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Sunday, January 23, 2011, 10:04 PM
>>
>>
>> 1. the thesaurus is under the applications menu there is a menu under 
>> there that has suggestions and if you press the enter key on one of them 
>> you will replace the previous word with the new one.
>> 2. the table function is found if you press alt+a then I then T and the 
>> same dialog will appear.
>> 3. word count can be found if you read the bottom of the window. jaws key 
>> insert+page down.
>> 4. outlines can be started if you start typing the auto complete function 
>> will pick up what you are trying to do.
>> also, to get from the tabs hit the tab key and you will be placed in the 
>> functions of that ribbon. to cycle through the tabs press the right and 
>> left arrows.
>> Finally, I would turn off the jaws virtual ribbon function. I have found 
>> it to be more tedious than the actual ribbons from microsoft.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Derrick
>> ---- bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > Well word 2010 doesn't seem as user frienddly although may be 
>> > accessibile. I'll check out the link!
>> >
>> > Things are certainly where I thought they'd be!
>> > Do I down arrow to see the options in the ribbon?
>> > There's eight tabs.
>> >
>> > Questions
>> > 1. How do i find the thesaurus?
>> > 2. Where do you find outlines like II and ABC?
>> > 3. Where do you get the word count; used to be under the tools menu.
>> > Quite important for students.
>> >
>> > 4. How do you insert a table? That was under the table menu and the 
>> > insert option in 2003.
>> > I may be able to get some training through the lighthouse here; for now 
>> > I'm learning/exploring myself.
>> > I don't have much patience with new technology!
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Ashley
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >From: Robert Miller <rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us>
>> > >Sent: Jan 23, 2011 9:21 PM
>> > >To: bookwormahb at earthlink.net, National Association of Blind Students 
>> > >mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>> > >
>> > >Office 2007 is very accessible and I'm sure 2010 is as well. Below I
>> > >inserted a Microsoft online tutorial link that will walk you through 
>> > >the
>> > >Ribbon and keyboard commands. It starts as soon as the page loads.
>> > >http://office.microsoft.com/training/training.aspx?AssetID=RC101562731033
>> > >
>> > >--------------------------------------------------
>> > >From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> > >Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:49 PM
>> > >To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > >Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft 2010 and accessibility
>> > >
>> > >> Hi all,
>> > >>
>> > >> Since microsoft suite 2010 is what is sold nowadays I'm getting it.
>> > >> So other than the tricky rinbon bar, what is different? Is 
>> > >> everything
>> > >> accessible with jaws? I have jaws 12. Do all shortcut commands such 
>> > >> as
>> > >> control s for save or control F for find still work? Are all buttons
>> > >> labeled? What access issues are there?
>> > >> Are there any help features built in for jaws and microsoft word 
>> > >> 2010?
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks!
>> > >>
>> > >> Ashley Bramlett
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > Robert and all,
>> > I will check out that link. So far I looked over the ribbons in word; 
>> > two ribbons, upper and lower and the lower appears to give you options 
>> > under that tab. But it doesn't seem as user friendly. With the menus in 
>> > 2003 I could arrow down the menus and/or press the first letter of the 
>> > option i wanted like t for thesaurus. Now all these buttons don't seem 
>> > to give easy shortcuts and navigation.
>> > To see my options on the lower ribbon, do I down arrow?
>> >
>> > Some questions:
>> > 1. Where do I find thesaurus?
>> > 2. Where do I find the box giving you the word count/character count? 
>> > It used to be under tools.
>> > 3.
>> >
>> >
>> > Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dstrick1%40roadrunner.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
> 



From jj at bestmidi.com  Mon Jan 24 05:30:06 2011
From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 00:30:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Traveling from ATIA Orlando to Daytona
Message-ID: <F054AFBD8B274819A69786350245FF8A@jage>

Hey, I know this may be a long shot, but if anyone else happens to be traveling to the ATIA conference in Orlando this week and then going up to Daytona for the Blind Driver Challenge, I'm taking a shuttle on Friday afternoon. Email off list if you would like more info.
Thanks.

From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 16:00:28 2011
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:00:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <475914.10733.qm@web162002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>





Hello,
Anyone from the scholarship class or the College Leadership
program attending the Rolex 24 at Daytona Beach thiss
weekend?
 
If so if you can contact me off line I would appreciate
 it.
 
 thanks
 Anmol
  
 
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but
it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
 Hellen Keller
 
 
       
 


      


From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 20:09:28 2011
From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:09:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Room for Sat in DC?
Message-ID: <AANLkTinp0-jVGoQzc+sMOpsaLWvCCxJcyZXRF3z0RmVD@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, if anyone is looking for a female roomate this upcoming
Saturday night in DC, Shoot me an email at
AlexanderA.Castillo at gmail.com.

Thanks,
Alex


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 21:43:24 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:43:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pro life march
Message-ID: <4D3DF27C.9030209@gmail.com>

Hi

Were any nfb people at the pro-life march in Washington DC today? I 
listened to it on EWTN radio on the internet.

Josh


From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 22:13:55 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:13:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale
In-Reply-To: <D5CD4A29-5D73-4800-94F1-22DEBB577E44@mac.com>
References: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5C2E2EA-4E83-41F9-AA54-5FFA2967AFA6@mac.com>
	<AANLkTimwvrQXsDnsw0oRHLr3Lt1KjpHnLWt2AhjBbgk4@mail.gmail.com>
	<D5CD4A29-5D73-4800-94F1-22DEBB577E44@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinEgHOVOhU-creg4t_dgWvPx9noj7pfPoWeM1tz@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

One of the machines is a Dell Dymension 3000 with 512 MB RAM, 40 GB
HDD and I believe it's a P4.  This machine was purchased near the end
of 2003 or 2004.  The other machine is a bit older, having been
purchased probably around 2001 or 2002.  I'm a little fuzzy on the
exact specs for this one - will have to look them up - but it has a
20GB HDD, think it's a P3, and the RAM was upgraded to 700 or so.

Thanks,
Robby

On 1/22/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
> OK.
> What are the specs of these machines?
> Company, model, etc.
>
>
> (feel free to contact me offline if it is better for you.)
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>
>> If I remember properly, one has a copy of Arch Linux on it and the
>> other is a very old installation of Windows XP.  I would wipe the
>> drives if they got sold.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Robby
>>
>> On 1/21/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>>> What OS do your desktops run?
>>> What screenreader?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> Just wish to let everyone know that I have several items for sale.
>>>>
>>>> I have a Braille Lite Millennium 40 that is still in pretty good shape
>>>> - the display is in perfect condition despite being used for five
>>>> years then being stored for about three years.  I'd like to sell it
>>>> for $500 but will go for the best offer.
>>>>
>>>> I have a couple desktop computers that I would like to get rid of.
>>>> Will give them up for $200 a piece or best offer - contact me for
>>>> details.
>>>>
>>>> Also got a Romeo Pro 50 Braille embosser that I will sell for $1,000.
>>>>
>>>> My email address is:
>>>> spangler.robert at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Robby
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Spangler
>> The University of Toledo
>> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
>> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
>> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 22:32:55 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:32:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] re nfb chapter
Message-ID: <4D3DFE17.5040703@gmail.com>

Oh I would have thought since the nfb is located in Baltimore that they 
would have had a good transportation system. Doesn't Baltimore also have 
paratransit? I also knowing that bism is there thought they would have a 
good transportation system as well. I wonder what city in the United 
States has the most blind people living in it?



From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Mon Jan 24 22:37:39 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:37:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] re nfb chapter
In-Reply-To: <4D3DFE17.5040703@gmail.com>
References: <4D3DFE17.5040703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65E6FD24-9380-4040-ADD4-C772293BA928@mac.com>

I would go for Minneapolis.
NY has a big population, but I haven't seen that many people--not as many as in Mineapolis when it comes to population anyway.

Services?

That's a different story.

Jorge


On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:32 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

> Oh I would have thought since the nfb is located in Baltimore that they would have had a good transportation system. Doesn't Baltimore also have paratransit? I also knowing that bism is there thought they would have a good transportation system as well. I wonder what city in the United States has the most blind people living in it?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 22:42:21 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:42:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
Message-ID: <4D3E004D.4060602@gmail.com>

Hi Derick,

How did you deal with the issue of living on SSI? If I would get more 
SSI money then I could save more, move to Philadelphia or Baltimore or 
Miami or Jacksonville Florida. In the field of HelpDesk and tech support 
the options around here are well almost none at all. I have another 
blind friend in his 50s going to Lions world. We're gunna keep in touch 
on skype and he's gunna report to me where the jobs are and how the 
economy is looking. Perhaps he could help get me in somewhere, moved, 
and get working. I'm on linked-in twitter, facebook. I post on linkedin 
once in awhile and nobody responds.


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Mon Jan 24 22:47:23 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:47:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
In-Reply-To: <4D3E004D.4060602@gmail.com>
References: <4D3E004D.4060602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <277A5D9C-03C9-4584-A03E-E322FCCED4E9@mac.com>

Josh,
What kind of tech support do you do?

Thanks,

Jorge


On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:42 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

> Hi Derick,
> 
> How did you deal with the issue of living on SSI? If I would get more SSI money then I could save more, move to Philadelphia or Baltimore or Miami or Jacksonville Florida. In the field of HelpDesk and tech support the options around here are well almost none at all. I have another blind friend in his 50s going to Lions world. We're gunna keep in touch on skype and he's gunna report to me where the jobs are and how the economy is looking. Perhaps he could help get me in somewhere, moved, and get working. I'm on linked-in twitter, facebook. I post on linkedin once in awhile and nobody responds.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 22:53:09 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:53:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
Message-ID: <32638705.1295909590025.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Josh,
This is a personal issue; nothing to do with nfb chapters; ssi is low; when you make your own living, you can move or do what ever you want with your life.  SSI may give you a small pay check to live on and free medical care, but not a good livelyhood; go to college, get a job and you can have the independent life you want off the government's paycheck.

Why say publicly you want more ssi and you know that won't change?
This is a bit personal and I'm sure none of us nabsters can help.
Make the most of what you have; the more you say "what if" the more depressed things will look.
As for finding where IT jobs are, why rely just on one blind friend?  Research it yourself online at the dept of labor site; research jobs on a local 
job wesite; in my area its dcjobs.com.
You need to network and do some research; why not go to a career center somewhere; go to job fairs.
Get out and look for jobs.  Posting on facebook and linked in is not going to help too much.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
>From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2011 5:42 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
>
>Hi Derick,
>
>How did you deal with the issue of living on SSI? If I would get more 
>SSI money then I could save more, move to Philadelphia or Baltimore or 
>Miami or Jacksonville Florida. In the field of HelpDesk and tech support 
>the options around here are well almost none at all. I have another 
>blind friend in his 50s going to Lions world. We're gunna keep in touch 
>on skype and he's gunna report to me where the jobs are and how the 
>economy is looking. Perhaps he could help get me in somewhere, moved, 
>and get working. I'm on linked-in twitter, facebook. I post on linkedin 
>once in awhile and nobody responds.
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From marsha.drenth at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 23:04:00 2011
From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:04:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] re nfb chapter
In-Reply-To: <4D3DFE17.5040703@gmail.com>
References: <4D3DFE17.5040703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5440130C11E144679B9C56AFCC773E92@Cptr233>

Josh,

Yes, Baltimore has a paratransit. It is just like other paratransit systems,
it has its good and bad points. But just because the NFB HQ and BISM are
located in Baltimore does not mean that it has this great, awesome,
wonderful, incredible transportation system. NFB promotes for independence,
not necessarily for the bestest and greatest transportation systems. Now
with that said there are people in Baltimore who are NFB members who work
hard to make sure that the Baltimore fixed buses and paratransit make the
best decisions. They clearly do all they can, but a huge transportation
system only has the money it does, the people it has working for them, and
the resources it has. 

What would it matter if a particular city has a big blind community? Because
certainly some of those people are going to be on one side of the fence, and
the others on a different side. They are all going to want different things,
especially if those blind people have differing views on what independence
is. And further more, some of those blind people are going to have special
needs and require specific transportation needs. So I really don't think its
going to matter where you live, or how many blind people there are. 

Yes Baltimore has a better transportation system than say Dallas Texas, I
only know this because I grew up and lived there for 30 years. But Philly
has a better transportation system than Baltimore. Denver has a great
transportation system, New York, and even Boston has a great system. 

   
More pieces of food for the thoughts,
Marsha Drenth




-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 5:33 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] re nfb chapter

Oh I would have thought since the nfb is located in Baltimore that they 
would have had a good transportation system. Doesn't Baltimore also have 
paratransit? I also knowing that bism is there thought they would have a 
good transportation system as well. I wonder what city in the United 
States has the most blind people living in it?


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
l.com
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5814 (20110124) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5814 (20110124) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 23:14:01 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
Message-ID: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

I’m trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try thunderbird as my email client.
Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
The problems I am finding so far:
1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread.  It used to say “unread”  when I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express. 
2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down several times to get there.

Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?

Ashley

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 23:17:42 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:17:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] re nfb chapter
In-Reply-To: <5440130C11E144679B9C56AFCC773E92@Cptr233>
References: <4D3DFE17.5040703@gmail.com>
	<5440130C11E144679B9C56AFCC773E92@Cptr233>
Message-ID: <D20EABDEF31A4871B4136ED3E4EAC5B7@OwnerPC>

Hi,
I agree Marsha; what matters more is not the amount of blind people, but how 
many people use the transit system?
The more demand there is, the more riders they have, the likely the better 
service is because customers demand it and the company makes money off 
ridership; so less demand for service, less service, and bus lines cut; less 
money and less staff; more riders means more money and hopefully more 
overall good service and staff for customer service; I also heard good 
things about the boston transit system and new york transit.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Marsha Drenth
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:04 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] re nfb chapter

Josh,

Yes, Baltimore has a paratransit. It is just like other paratransit systems,
it has its good and bad points. But just because the NFB HQ and BISM are
located in Baltimore does not mean that it has this great, awesome,
wonderful, incredible transportation system. NFB promotes for independence,
not necessarily for the bestest and greatest transportation systems. Now
with that said there are people in Baltimore who are NFB members who work
hard to make sure that the Baltimore fixed buses and paratransit make the
best decisions. They clearly do all they can, but a huge transportation
system only has the money it does, the people it has working for them, and
the resources it has.

What would it matter if a particular city has a big blind community? Because
certainly some of those people are going to be on one side of the fence, and
the others on a different side. They are all going to want different things,
especially if those blind people have differing views on what independence
is. And further more, some of those blind people are going to have special
needs and require specific transportation needs. So I really don't think its
going to matter where you live, or how many blind people there are.

Yes Baltimore has a better transportation system than say Dallas Texas, I
only know this because I grew up and lived there for 30 years. But Philly
has a better transportation system than Baltimore. Denver has a great
transportation system, New York, and even Boston has a great system.


More pieces of food for the thoughts,
Marsha Drenth




-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 5:33 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] re nfb chapter

Oh I would have thought since the nfb is located in Baltimore that they
would have had a good transportation system. Doesn't Baltimore also have
paratransit? I also knowing that bism is there thought they would have a
good transportation system as well. I wonder what city in the United
States has the most blind people living in it?


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai
l.com


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5814 (20110124) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5814 (20110124) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 23:22:37 2011
From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:22:37 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
References: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <65D7C4B446324335B20FB7D82F80939F@kerrie025e8776>

Ashley,
I think this is inacessable... ever since outlook 2007 has refused to get 
out of safe m,ode for me, I've been using windows live mail. I haven't 
bothered with the message rules feature, but the other things you mentioned 
I've noticed

--------------------------------------------------
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 5:14 PM
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail

> Hi all,
>
> I’m trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try 
> thunderbird as my email client.
> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
> The problems I am finding so far:
> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and 
> alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread.  It used to say “unread” 
> when I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do 
> in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down 
> several times to get there.
>
> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com
> 


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 23:32:46 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:32:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
References: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <6C6E1C9301504C17805718F7793FFE1F@Rufus>

Ashley,

People don't much care for Outlook, but if you've got MS Office on your
machine, I recommend that instead.  It's far more robust and has the
features you've listed.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:14 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail

Hi all,

I'm trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail 
or try thunderbird as my email client.
Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
The problems I am finding so far:
1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like 
control N and alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread.  It 
used to say "unread"  when I arrowed to an unread message in 
outlook express. 
2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I 
normally do in a list. For instance D for deleted items; 
instead I have to arrow down several times to get there.

Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?

Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 23:36:56 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:36:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
Message-ID: <30958311.1295912217368.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Kerry!
Thanks; its probably inaccessible then to some extent.
jIts not user friendly at all; if I'm not the onlyy one having this problem, then I 
think we should complain to microsoft and nfb should get involved. How appalling to buy a computer with windows live mail built in, and not be able to use it; there's no excuse for not being accessible.
I might need to change email  clients because I cannot tell what messages are unread with jaws.
Ashley

-----Original Message-----
>From: Karrie Kinstetter <skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2011 6:22 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>Ashley,
>I think this is inacessable... ever since outlook 2007 has refused to get 
>out of safe m,ode for me, I've been using windows live mail. I haven't 
>bothered with the message rules feature, but the other things you mentioned 
>I've noticed
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 5:14 PM
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I’m trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try 
>> thunderbird as my email client.
>> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>> The problems I am finding so far:
>> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and 
>> alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread.  It used to say “unread” 
>> when I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
>> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do 
>> in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down 
>> several times to get there.
>>
>> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com
>> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 24 23:39:25 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:39:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
Message-ID: <11174723.1295912365252.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>



Hi,
I cannot get outlook because the microsoft package was already iinstalled for me; I will have to get another email client like thunderbird.

Outlook has a ribbon bar, but I heard it got more acccessible recently and you can now use the calendar feature.
I'll definately use outlook when i get a job.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2011 6:32 PM
>To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>Ashley,
>
>People don't much care for Outlook, but if you've got MS Office on your
>machine, I recommend that instead.  It's far more robust and has the
>features you've listed.
>
>Joe
>
>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:14 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>Hi all,
>
>I'm trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail 
>or try thunderbird as my email client.
>Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>The problems I am finding so far:
>1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like 
>control N and alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread.  It 
>used to say "unread"  when I arrowed to an unread message in 
>outlook express. 
>2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I 
>normally do in a list. For instance D for deleted items; 
>instead I have to arrow down several times to get there.
>
>Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>
>Ashley
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>%40gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 23:57:12 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:57:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <30958311.1295912217368.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <30958311.1295912217368.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <EBEFC4A80C334324941661BC7EDC1FB5@Rufus>

Jamal wrote some scripts for Thunderbird that appear to make that option
pretty accessible.  You'll have to Google them, as I don't know where to
find the direct URL off the top of my head.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail

Hi Kerry!
Thanks; its probably inaccessible then to some extent.
jIts not user friendly at all; if I'm not the onlyy one having 
this problem, then I 
think we should complain to microsoft and nfb should get 
involved. How appalling to buy a computer with windows live 
mail built in, and not be able to use it; there's no excuse for 
not being accessible.
I might need to change email  clients because I cannot tell 
what messages are unread with jaws.
Ashley

-----Original Message-----
>From: Karrie Kinstetter <skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2011 6:22 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>Ashley,
>I think this is inacessable... ever since outlook 2007 has 
refused to get 
>out of safe m,ode for me, I've been using windows live mail. I haven't 
>bothered with the message rules feature, but the other things 
you mentioned 
>I've noticed
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 5:14 PM
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live 
mail or try 
>> thunderbird as my email client.
>> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>> The problems I am finding so far:
>> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like 
control N and 
>> alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread.  It used to say 
"unread" 
>> when I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
>> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as 
I normally do 
>> in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have 
to arrow down 
>> several times to get there.
>>
>> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittles
freak69%40gmail.com
>> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwor
mahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 00:20:33 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:20:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] life at conception act
Message-ID: <4D3E1751.6080108@gmail.com>

Hi

Take a look at this bill. I personally am gunna write my state senators 
and urge them to vote to have this bill passed.

http://www.prolifealliance.com/life%20at%20conception%20act.htm

Josh


From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 00:38:34 2011
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:38:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] life at conception act
In-Reply-To: <4D3E1751.6080108@gmail.com>
References: <4D3E1751.6080108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98BECA233FEB4AF087CAF6C285E89382@AnjelinaPC>

What does this have to do with being a student who is blind?
Just my thoughts: public forums aren't always the best place to mix politics 
and religion.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 7:20 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] life at conception act

Hi

Take a look at this bill. I personally am gunna write my state senators
and urge them to vote to have this bill passed.

http://www.prolifealliance.com/life%20at%20conception%20act.htm

Josh

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com


Anjelina 



From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 00:43:39 2011
From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:43:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <11174723.1295912365252.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <11174723.1295912365252.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <D836B9CB4F8541D6B7177AB3946B218C@kerrie025e8776>

You should be able to use microsoft office. You can install it on your pc, 
and you can change the default email client

--------------------------------------------------
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 5:39 PM
To: <jsorozco at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail

>
>
> Hi,
> I cannot get outlook because the microsoft package was already iinstalled 
> for me; I will have to get another email client like thunderbird.
>
> Outlook has a ribbon bar, but I heard it got more acccessible recently and 
> you can now use the calendar feature.
> I'll definately use outlook when i get a job.
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>Sent: Jan 24, 2011 6:32 PM
>>To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' 
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>
>>Ashley,
>>
>>People don't much care for Outlook, but if you've got MS Office on your
>>machine, I recommend that instead.  It's far more robust and has the
>>features you've listed.
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:14 PM
>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail
>>or try thunderbird as my email client.
>>Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>>I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>>Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>>The problems I am finding so far:
>>1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like
>>control N and alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread.  It
>>used to say "unread"  when I arrowed to an unread message in
>>outlook express.
>>2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I
>>normally do in a list. For instance D for deleted items;
>>instead I have to arrow down several times to get there.
>>
>>Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>>
>>Ashley
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>info for nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>>%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gmail.com 



From anne at duxsys.com  Tue Jan 25 00:56:35 2011
From: anne at duxsys.com (Anne Ronco)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:56:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [duxnews] Announcement DBT 11.1 is Now Shipping
Message-ID: <auto-000187854160@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Dear Duxnews and Duxuser listers,

Our next major version, DBT 11.1 (build date 
2011-1-07), has been released. DBT 11.1 is now 
shipping and available on the Web for download.

Those with existing licenses can use Help/Check 
for Updates (Alt-H-U) to download DBT 11.1 and 
check if their licenses are within the 
eligibility period for receiving DBT 11.1 as a 
free update. Those with licenses outside of the 
eligibility period can run DBT 11.1 as a time-limited trial for up to 45 days.

DBT 11.1 can also be downloaded from our main web site home page:

<http://www.duxburysystems.com>www.duxburysystems.com

The DBT 11.1 download will run as a demo version for those without a license.

Here is a list of what's new since DBT 10.7 SR1:
    * Imports MS Word 2007 and 2010; MS Excel 2007 and 2010 files
    * Imports Open Office Writer & Open Office Calc files
    * Now supports 
<http://www.duxburysystems.com/nations.asp> over 
130 languages for braille translation
    * 
<http://www.duxburysystems.com/documentation/dbt11.1/working_with_word/Table_and_Style_Example.htm> 
Table importer & Braille tabular material formatter:
        * Imports tables and offers multiple 
braille table styles including automatic selection of the optimal style
        * Allows easy change between table styles
        * Supports differences in table formatting for different braille codes
    * Improves Math support in many ways: better 
importer, better translation, now supporting spatial layout for matrixes
    * 
<http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbt_math.asp> Lets 
the user select one math translator for all file 
imports (use Nemeth with Hindi or British Math with Nigerian languages, etc.)
    * 
<http://www.duxburysystems.com/documentation/dbt11.1/language_translation_tables/language_switching.htm> 
Allows Switching Braille Tables inside of a 
document to combine multiple braille systems in a single document.
    * Improves functionality for DAISY & NIMAS and other XML document files.
    * Now provides back translation (braille to 
print) as well as print to braille for most braille translators
    * Includes New Learning Tables to assist & 
support approved braille teaching courses: 2 for 
BANA, 3 for BAUK/UKAAF and 2 for UEB. NOW listed in DOCUMENT menu.
    * Offers a low cost print & braille solution 
– 
<http://www.duxburysystems.com/documentation/transendse.asp> 
The TranSend SE: Software version of TranSend is 
available for licensing from Enabling Technologies
    * Organizes Translation tables by region
    * Refines and updates over a dozen translation tables
    * Features New 
<http://www.duxburysystems.com/documentation/dbt11.1/index.asp?Screenreader=1> 
Translation Help
    * Adds support for new embossers including the NEW COSMO.
    * Improves handling of many current embossers
    * Strengthens support for JAWS screen reader
For a more detailed list, see 
<http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbtwhst.asp>http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbtwhst.asp. 



Regards to all,

Joe Sullivan
President, Duxbury Systems, Inc.





From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Jan 25 01:36:30 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:36:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] life at conception act
In-Reply-To: <4D3E1751.6080108@gmail.com>
References: <4D3E1751.6080108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000191700315@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Josh, this is not blindness, or student related and is off topic for 
this list.  Please don't post such things on our lists.

David Andrews, List Owner

At 06:20 PM 1/24/2011, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>Take a look at this bill. I personally am gunna write my state 
>senators and urge them to vote to have this bill passed.
>
>http://www.prolifealliance.com/life%20at%20conception%20act.htm
>
>Josh




From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 25 01:52:10 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:52:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] life at conception act
Message-ID: <2254180.1295920331268.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Josh,
Share your views on bills pertaining to students or blindness or both; but this one is a bit off topic.
I'd like to see congress have a bill on mandating publishers release documents in accessible electronic texts.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Anjelina <anjelinac26 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 24, 2011 7:38 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] life at conception act
>
>What does this have to do with being a student who is blind?
>Just my thoughts: public forums aren't always the best place to mix politics 
>and religion.
>
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Josh Kennedy
>Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 7:20 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] life at conception act
>
>Hi
>
>Take a look at this bill. I personally am gunna write my state senators
>and urge them to vote to have this bill passed.
>
>http://www.prolifealliance.com/life%20at%20conception%20act.htm
>
>Josh
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>
>
>Anjelina 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From debbiewunder at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 25 02:36:22 2011
From: debbiewunder at earthlink.net (Debbie Wunder)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:36:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
References: <4D3E004D.4060602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A51F10CDB070448BB0FF380E17EDEAD8@DEBBIECOMPUTER>

Josh, have you looked ate the IRS program? I understand from a friend that 
it is really good.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 4:42 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs


> Hi Derick,
>
> How did you deal with the issue of living on SSI? If I would get more SSI 
> money then I could save more, move to Philadelphia or Baltimore or Miami 
> or Jacksonville Florida. In the field of HelpDesk and tech support the 
> options around here are well almost none at all. I have another blind 
> friend in his 50s going to Lions world. We're gunna keep in touch on skype 
> and he's gunna report to me where the jobs are and how the economy is 
> looking. Perhaps he could help get me in somewhere, moved, and get 
> working. I'm on linked-in twitter, facebook. I post on linkedin once in 
> awhile and nobody responds.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40earthlink.net 



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 04:51:25 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:51:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Washington Seminar 2011 Meeting Agenda!
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=M7WdjU1MYez08OsmiRERk0oECHF+Qb1fffH8W@mail.gmail.com>

Please note that the agenda is pasted below and also attached for your
convenience. See you next week!

 Monday January 31, 2011
National Association of Blind Students
Midwinter Gathering
Holiday Inn Capitol Hotel
Washington, D.C.
Columbia Ballroom
7:30-8:30 Breakfast meet-and-greet for new students, Starbucks
If this is your first Washington Seminar, come have breakfast with us!
Members of the NABS board will be around to answer any questions you
may have.

8:00-9:00 Registration ($5.00)
9:00 Call to Order and Welcome
Arielle Silverman, President, National Association of Blind Students
9:05 All About NFB Scholarships!
Patti Chang, Chair, NFB Scholarship Committee
9:20 Accessing our Books: Updates from RFB&D, BookShare, and NFBNewsline
Annemarie Cooke, Consultant, Recording for the Blind and Dyslexic, Princeton, NJ
Allison Hilliker, Collection Development Associate, BookShare, Palo Alto, CA
Renee West, Manager of Marketing and Outreach for Sponsored Technology
Programs, National Federation of the Blind
9:50 Slammin Scientists: Some Comments on the NFB Youth Slam Experience
Jeremy Ellis, Waterloo Iowa, University of northern Iowa student; 2009
Youth Slam participant
Ashley Ritter, Mentor, 2009 Youth Slam
Mary Jo Hartle, Director of Education Programs, NFB Jernigan Institute
10:15 What are we Fighting For? A Legislative Update
Jesse Hartle, Governmental Affairs Specialist, National Federation of the Blind
10:25 Beyond the Classroom: Accessing Sports, Clubs and Community Involvement
Cindy Bennett, Asheville, North Carolina, University of North
Carolina, Wilmington student.
Bre Brown, President, West Virginia Association of Blind Students
Mika Baugh, President, Indiana Association of Blind Students.
10:50 Accessing Testing: What’s New at ETS
Ruth Loew, Assistant Director, Office of Disability Policy, Princeton, NJ
10:55 Accessing Financial Aid: An Update
Dave Rives, U.S. Department of Education, Washington, D.C.
11:00 A Word from our NFB National President
Marc Maurer, President, National Federation of the Blind
11:15 Accessing Learning Technology: New Challenges, New Strides
Tony Olivero, International Braille and Technology Center, National
Federation of the Blind
Glinda Hill, Education Program Specialist, Office of Special
Education, U.S. Department of Education; Washington, D.C.
Daniel Goldstein, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP; Baltimore, MD
11:45 Roll Call of States
12:00 Adjourn
12:15-1:30 NABS Presidents' Luncheon.  Each state please send one
delegate to this luncheon.

2:00-2:40 Breakout Session I
NFB Philosophy: What you’ve always wanted to know about the NFB (but
were afraid to ask)!
Led by Nijat Worley, Treasurer, National Association of Blind Students
Technology Q&A. Bring your questions about notetakers, screen-reading
software, or access to popular applications!
Led by Domonique Lawless, Board Member, National Association of Blind
Students, and Tony Olivero, International Braille and Technology
Center, National Federation of the Blind
Advocacy in School and on the Job
Led by Sean Whalen, Second Vice-President, National Association of
Blind Students
 Social issues-meeting people, dating, and getting involved on campus
and in the community!
Led by Meghan Whalen, Board Member, National Association of Blind Students
Division development. Learn how to organize a student division in your
state, or make your current division stronger!
Led by Karen Anderson, First Vice-President, National Association of
Blind Students
2:45-3:30 Breakout Session II. See above.
3:30 Adjourn
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From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 05:30:01 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:30:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dowloading files from Bookshare to Victor Stream
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=TL0fZKLB5zC_Jm-Jk=T31kvJ6c9d_7gNcAt=9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Hope the semester has begun nicely for you all!  I have a quick
question.  I just recently got a Bookshare license and was wondering
can you put the files you download when you want to download a book or
whatever.  Can you put that on the Victor Stream?  If so, how do you
do that?  I have tried a few different ways and when I go to see if it
will play it doesn't recognize it even being there.
Thanks so much,

Justin


From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 06:06:52 2011
From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 01:06:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Roomate for Sat night in DC?
Message-ID: <AANLkTimwS_u1DNzLV9JSq1UkBTamPEf41xiYvt0FORpX@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, if you will be attending Washington Seminar,  have a room and
are looking for someone to share with on Saturday night, you may
contact sarahchung610 at gmail.com.

Thanks for reading,
Alex


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 11:45:09 2011
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 03:45:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
In-Reply-To: <32638705.1295909590025.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <862360.13639.qm@web162010.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Josh,
I like what everyone has already said, but I wanted to add my two sense. Appreciate what you have... Many blind people in other countries such as my country of India do not have any government support. This means that we do not have such things as SSI or voc rehab to help us perchase technology or pay for college and must rely on family and others just get by and still alot of blind people live a successful lives. At this point I I really wish I received at least some sort of SSI but can not due to me not being a citizen. I would get off it SSI asap but would keep till I could get on myfeet by getting a job.
So keep a smile and be thankful for what you have.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Mon, 1/24/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 4:53 PM
> Hi Josh,
> This is a personal issue; nothing to do with nfb chapters;
> ssi is low; when you make your own living, you can move or
> do what ever you want with your life.  SSI may give you
> a small pay check to live on and free medical care, but not
> a good livelyhood; go to college, get a job and you can have
> the independent life you want off the government's
> paycheck.
> 
> Why say publicly you want more ssi and you know that won't
> change?
> This is a bit personal and I'm sure none of us nabsters can
> help.
> Make the most of what you have; the more you say "what if"
> the more depressed things will look.
> As for finding where IT jobs are, why rely just on one
> blind friend?  Research it yourself online at the dept
> of labor site; research jobs on a local 
> job wesite; in my area its dcjobs.com.
> You need to network and do some research; why not go to a
> career center somewhere; go to job fairs.
> Get out and look for jobs.  Posting on facebook and
> linked in is not going to help too much.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Jan 24, 2011 5:42 PM
> >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
> >
> >Hi Derick,
> >
> >How did you deal with the issue of living on SSI? If I
> would get more 
> >SSI money then I could save more, move to Philadelphia
> or Baltimore or 
> >Miami or Jacksonville Florida. In the field of HelpDesk
> and tech support 
> >the options around here are well almost none at all. I
> have another 
> >blind friend in his 50s going to Lions world. We're
> gunna keep in touch 
> >on skype and he's gunna report to me where the jobs are
> and how the 
> >economy is looking. Perhaps he could help get me in
> somewhere, moved, 
> >and get working. I'm on linked-in twitter, facebook. I
> post on linkedin 
> >once in awhile and nobody responds.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


      


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 11:51:25 2011
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 03:51:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
In-Reply-To: <A51F10CDB070448BB0FF380E17EDEAD8@DEBBIECOMPUTER>
Message-ID: <14956.18443.qm@web162010.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

The IRS program (the one through Lions World Services for the Blind in Little Rock Arkansas) is a good program. If I were a US citizen I would have applied for it few years ago and it is job asured. There are also other programs at LWSB which are programs worth looking into. Also look at some programs with Indestries for the Blind.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Mon, 1/24/11, Debbie Wunder <debbiewunder at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Debbie Wunder <debbiewunder at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 8:36 PM
> Josh, have you looked ate the IRS
> program? I understand from a friend that it is really good.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Kennedy" <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 4:42 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] social security and jobs
> 
> 
> > Hi Derick,
> > 
> > How did you deal with the issue of living on SSI? If I
> would get more SSI money then I could save more, move to
> Philadelphia or Baltimore or Miami or Jacksonville Florida.
> In the field of HelpDesk and tech support the options around
> here are well almost none at all. I have another blind
> friend in his 50s going to Lions world. We're gunna keep in
> touch on skype and he's gunna report to me where the jobs
> are and how the economy is looking. Perhaps he could help
> get me in somewhere, moved, and get working. I'm on
> linked-in twitter, facebook. I post on linkedin once in
> awhile and nobody responds.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40earthlink.net
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


      


From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 12:30:00 2011
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:30:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dowloading files from Bookshare to Victor Stream
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=TL0fZKLB5zC_Jm-Jk=T31kvJ6c9d_7gNcAt=9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=TL0fZKLB5zC_Jm-Jk=T31kvJ6c9d_7gNcAt=9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimkDE_fEQv2CgYK3_-UC5Gtox9nCkLVhqugeKEv@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Justin,
Here are the steps that I take to download and extract a Bookshare
book onto my Victor. I take extra steps to have the book available on
my external hard drive in case something goes wrong and I have to
delete the book off my Victor.
1. Download the file into My Documents (or a flash drive or esxternal
harddrive as you prefer, but not your Victor yet).
Name the file the book's title plus ZIPPED plus Bookshare
, so you can recognize it well.
2. Go into the folder you put the file in, and right-click and select
Extract All.
3. Follow the steps of the Extraction Wizard, and click the Browse
button to extract the file into a new folder in the same location as
the original file. This way, all the files are together and easy to
copy and passte the whole folder and only those files.
4. Once the files are extractred into their folder, go into that
location, copy (or cut) the unzipped file, and paste it into your
Victor's $DTB (digital talking book) file.

If this doesnn't work, you may jave the download settings set to the
wrong type. Can anyone remember how to check this? I don't recall...

Later,
Jewel


On 1/25/11, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Hope the semester has begun nicely for you all!  I have a quick
> question.  I just recently got a Bookshare license and was wondering
> can you put the files you download when you want to download a book or
> whatever.  Can you put that on the Victor Stream?  If so, how do you
> do that?  I have tried a few different ways and when I go to see if it
> will play it doesn't recognize it even being there.
> Thanks so much,
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com


From agrima at nbp.org  Tue Jan 25 14:07:29 2011
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:07:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Getting Started with the iPhone: An Introduction for Blind
	Users!
Message-ID: <000901cbbc99$340e9460$9c2bbd20$@org>

Getting Started with the iPhone
An Introduction for Blind Users
By Anna Dresner and Dean Martineau
In braille, eBraille, ASCII text/Word, and DAISY formats, $18

The iPhone. You know you want one.

You can use your iPhone to check email and Twitter, listen to music, listen
to radio programs from faraway places, read eBooks, verify your walking or
driving location, pay bills and transfer funds, monitor the weather across
the planet, time recipes, awaken to the alarm clock, be reminded of
appointments, exchange text messages, play a wide variety of games, play the
auto harp and ocarina, fight with a light saber that makes different sounds
as you move your hand around, scan bar codes, make multi-track recordings,
cure a headache - even to make and receive telephone calls! You'll be blown
away by the power and flexibility of this device. To be able to do so much
with a gadget that fits into a pocket is absolutely amazing. And it's
accessible out of the  box!

In Getting Started with the iPhone, authors Anna Dresner and Dean Martineau
show you what's possible on the iPhone and get you up and running.

The book is divided into four main parts. Part 1 tells you what you need to
know before you can start using your iPhone: advice on purchasing an iPhone
and getting it ready to use.

In Part 2 you'll turn on your iPhone and begin to use it. You'll explore the
home screen, configure basic settings, make phone calls, and type using the
on-screen keyboard, a Bluetooth keyboard, and a braille display keyboard.

Part 3 goes through the wide variety of apps that come with the phone, and
shows how to purchase apps, music, and other fun content.

Finally, Part 4 includes a journal Anna wrote as she learned to use the
iPhone. It will give you an idea of what it's like to use an iPhone and how
you might go about learning new apps.

Appendix A compiles all the gestures - specific ways of touching the iPhone
screen. Appendix B includes answers to frequently asked questions, and
Appendix C lists resources you can use to learn more. 

Read the complete table of contents at:
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/IPHONE.html


While this book focuses on the iPhone, most of it also applies to the iPod
Touch, and much of it applies to the iPad.

And don't forget - in honor of Louis Braille's birthday this month, order
anything before February 4th and you'll be automatically entered to win a
basket of Louis goodies. Order by phone, fax, mail, or website, and you
could win!


******
To order any books, send payment to:
NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302
Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520
Emails: orders at nbp.org
Or order any of our books online at
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html .




From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 14:14:51 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:14:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dowloading files from Bookshare to Victor Stream
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimkDE_fEQv2CgYK3_-UC5Gtox9nCkLVhqugeKEv@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=TL0fZKLB5zC_Jm-Jk=T31kvJ6c9d_7gNcAt=9@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimkDE_fEQv2CgYK3_-UC5Gtox9nCkLVhqugeKEv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinOCEB00kzxZ_qb0x84s6sM7zJpK7zHk5pTvweQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your help Jewel!

On 1/25/11, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Justin,
> Here are the steps that I take to download and extract a Bookshare
> book onto my Victor. I take extra steps to have the book available on
> my external hard drive in case something goes wrong and I have to
> delete the book off my Victor.
> 1. Download the file into My Documents (or a flash drive or esxternal
> harddrive as you prefer, but not your Victor yet).
> Name the file the book's title plus ZIPPED plus Bookshare
> , so you can recognize it well.
> 2. Go into the folder you put the file in, and right-click and select
> Extract All.
> 3. Follow the steps of the Extraction Wizard, and click the Browse
> button to extract the file into a new folder in the same location as
> the original file. This way, all the files are together and easy to
> copy and passte the whole folder and only those files.
> 4. Once the files are extractred into their folder, go into that
> location, copy (or cut) the unzipped file, and paste it into your
> Victor's $DTB (digital talking book) file.
>
> If this doesnn't work, you may jave the download settings set to the
> wrong type. Can anyone remember how to check this? I don't recall...
>
> Later,
> Jewel
>
>
> On 1/25/11, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Hope the semester has begun nicely for you all!  I have a quick
>> question.  I just recently got a Bookshare license and was wondering
>> can you put the files you download when you want to download a book or
>> whatever.  Can you put that on the Victor Stream?  If so, how do you
>> do that?  I have tried a few different ways and when I go to see if it
>> will play it doesn't recognize it even being there.
>> Thanks so much,
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From aphelps at BISM.org  Tue Jan 25 15:22:40 2011
From: aphelps at BISM.org (Amy Phelps)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:22:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking counselors/instructors for Independence 2011
Message-ID: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC02E5DFB0@blindmail.BISM.COM>

 

Good morning everyone! As some of you may have heard, Independence 2010
was a great success and Independence 2011 is going to be even better. We
are seeking instructor/counselors who want to be a part of something
fantastic. Independence 2011 is going to be a seven week program where
we will teach the nonvisual skills of blindness and work with 12 blind
youth to develop a positive attitude about blindness based on the
philosophy of the National Federation of the Blind. Please contact me
off list if you are interested in applying to be a counselor/instructor.
You don't want to miss this fantastic opportunity! 

 

Warm regards, 

 

Amy C. Phelps  

 

Amy C. Phelps, CRC, NOMC

 

Help support a blind youth to attend Indepenence 2011 Donate
<https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=100
3647>  

Check out information about our summer youth program: Independence 2011
<http://bism.org/r_youth_TEMP_2.cfm>  

 

Blind Industries and Services of Maryland

3345 Washington Blvd

Baltimore, MD 21227

Phone: 410-737-2642

Mobile: 410-274-1647

Fax: 410-737-2689

Toll Free: 888-322-4567

E-mail: aphelps at bism.org <mailto:aphelps at bism.org> 

 

"...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can
do the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as
his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig

 

 

 

Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message may be
privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the
message and deleting it from your computer.

 

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From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Tue Jan 25 16:01:35 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 10:01:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dowloading files from Bookshare to Victor Stream
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinOCEB00kzxZ_qb0x84s6sM7zJpK7zHk5pTvweQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000024243287@mailback2.g2host.com>

Justin,

I am not sure if Jewel was suggesting this, but I would avoid renaming the files you download.  If you do, though, the end of the file name should remain 
".zip" to be sure that it is detected as a "ZIP" file.  If the last part of the file name is not ".zip", the extract option may not appear.  You may be asked to 
enter your Bookshare password as well.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:14:51 -0500, Justin Young wrote:

>Thanks for your help Jewel!

>On 1/25/11, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Justin,
>> Here are the steps that I take to download and extract a Bookshare
>> book onto my Victor. I take extra steps to have the book available on
>> my external hard drive in case something goes wrong and I have to
>> delete the book off my Victor.
>> 1. Download the file into My Documents (or a flash drive or esxternal
>> harddrive as you prefer, but not your Victor yet).
>> Name the file the book's title plus ZIPPED plus Bookshare
>> , so you can recognize it well.
>> 2. Go into the folder you put the file in, and right-click and select
>> Extract All.
>> 3. Follow the steps of the Extraction Wizard, and click the Browse
>> button to extract the file into a new folder in the same location as
>> the original file. This way, all the files are together and easy to
>> copy and passte the whole folder and only those files.
>> 4. Once the files are extractred into their folder, go into that
>> location, copy (or cut) the unzipped file, and paste it into your
>> Victor's $DTB (digital talking book) file.
>>
>> If this doesnn't work, you may jave the download settings set to the
>> wrong type. Can anyone remember how to check this? I don't recall...
>>
>> Later,
>> Jewel
>>
>>
>> On 1/25/11, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Hope the semester has begun nicely for you all!  I have a quick
>>> question.  I just recently got a Bookshare license and was wondering
>>> can you put the files you download when you want to download a book or
>>> whatever.  Can you put that on the Victor Stream?  If so, how do you
>>> do that?  I have tried a few different ways and when I go to see if it
>>> will play it doesn't recognize it even being there.
>>> Thanks so much,
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~Jewel
>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 16:21:00 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:21:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dowloading files from Bookshare to Victor Stream
In-Reply-To: <auto-000024243287@mailback2.g2host.com>
References: <AANLkTinOCEB00kzxZ_qb0x84s6sM7zJpK7zHk5pTvweQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000024243287@mailback2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikWa41HvwrkPsSetfd3dsspXNEKATYREP65QxKR@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,

When I did the extract thing it worked.  And yes I had to put in a password too.
Thanks for all the help

On 1/25/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Justin,
>
> I am not sure if Jewel was suggesting this, but I would avoid renaming the
> files you download.  If you do, though, the end of the file name should
> remain
> ".zip" to be sure that it is detected as a "ZIP" file.  If the last part of
> the file name is not ".zip", the extract option may not appear.  You may be
> asked to
> enter your Bookshare password as well.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:14:51 -0500, Justin Young wrote:
>
>>Thanks for your help Jewel!
>
>>On 1/25/11, Jewel S. <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Justin,
>>> Here are the steps that I take to download and extract a Bookshare
>>> book onto my Victor. I take extra steps to have the book available on
>>> my external hard drive in case something goes wrong and I have to
>>> delete the book off my Victor.
>>> 1. Download the file into My Documents (or a flash drive or esxternal
>>> harddrive as you prefer, but not your Victor yet).
>>> Name the file the book's title plus ZIPPED plus Bookshare
>>> , so you can recognize it well.
>>> 2. Go into the folder you put the file in, and right-click and select
>>> Extract All.
>>> 3. Follow the steps of the Extraction Wizard, and click the Browse
>>> button to extract the file into a new folder in the same location as
>>> the original file. This way, all the files are together and easy to
>>> copy and passte the whole folder and only those files.
>>> 4. Once the files are extractred into their folder, go into that
>>> location, copy (or cut) the unzipped file, and paste it into your
>>> Victor's $DTB (digital talking book) file.
>>>
>>> If this doesnn't work, you may jave the download settings set to the
>>> wrong type. Can anyone remember how to check this? I don't recall...
>>>
>>> Later,
>>> Jewel
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/25/11, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Hope the semester has begun nicely for you all!  I have a quick
>>>> question.  I just recently got a Bookshare license and was wondering
>>>> can you put the files you download when you want to download a book or
>>>> whatever.  Can you put that on the Victor Stream?  If so, how do you
>>>> do that?  I have tried a few different ways and when I go to see if it
>>>> will play it doesn't recognize it even being there.
>>>> Thanks so much,
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~Jewel
>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 18:40:29 2011
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:40:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
Message-ID: <01cd01cbbcbf$583513c0$089f3b40$@com>

Just because something may not be optimized for use by blind users does not
mean that it is "inaccessible." The term is thrown around far too
frequently. Sometimes things are a bit cumbersome. Sometimes we may even
have to (gasp) use the JAWS cursor. Inaccessible means unable to be
accessed. This, of course, doesn't mean that I don't like things to be
easily useable by blind users. I do, and I pursue that goal where I can, but
let's reserve the label for things like flat screen appliances, software
applications, etc. to which we truly do not have independent access.

 

Sean

 


From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 18:51:04 2011
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:51:04 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Mandating Publishers Provide Accessible Texts
Message-ID: <01d701cbbcc0$d201ff00$7605fd00$@com>

Ashley,

 

As I recall, we did work to pass such a bill through the US Congress. I am
not sure what stage of implementation the law is at, but I know there is a
law on the books.

 

Sean

 

Sean Whalen

Policy Associate

Linchpin Strategies, LLC

 

639 Massachusetts Ave NE

Washington, DC 20002

Phone:  (866) 443-0998

Fax:       (202) 318-8113

 


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 19:11:03 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:11:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] college
Message-ID: <4D3F2047.2000300@gmail.com>

Ok guys,
think I'm going after a new strategy here. I'm going to go to Lions 
world. Once I have a job then I will resume at capella. My voc rehab 
counselor suggested lions world. I can become certified has helpdesk 
desktop support technician microsoft certified engineer among other 
programs.



From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 19:13:42 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:13:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] tech support
Message-ID: <4D3F20E6.7070503@gmail.com>

Hi

Oh that's a broad question. I can do anything from setting up screen 
readers to reformatting your entire machine and installing your choice 
of Windows or Linux. I'm familiar with Jaws, window-eyes, NVDA system 
access Orca and voiceover. Not so much supernova yet though. I'm sure at 
lions world I'll learn more though.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 19:15:00 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:15:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] lions world
Message-ID: <4D3F2134.1050603@gmail.com>

So,
what do you guys think of lions world? Julie Deden from the ccb 
according to one of my friends she thinks its good. In fact I may call 
her and ask her personally.

Josh


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Tue Jan 25 20:48:18 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:48:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinEgHOVOhU-creg4t_dgWvPx9noj7pfPoWeM1tz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5C2E2EA-4E83-41F9-AA54-5FFA2967AFA6@mac.com>
	<AANLkTimwvrQXsDnsw0oRHLr3Lt1KjpHnLWt2AhjBbgk4@mail.gmail.com>
	<D5CD4A29-5D73-4800-94F1-22DEBB577E44@mac.com>
	<AANLkTinEgHOVOhU-creg4t_dgWvPx9noj7pfPoWeM1tz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <410E87DB-1008-40DE-83C3-FD64C58201C6@mac.com>

And what's your asking price for the 2004 model?


On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> One of the machines is a Dell Dymension 3000 with 512 MB RAM, 40 GB
> HDD and I believe it's a P4.  This machine was purchased near the end
> of 2003 or 2004.  The other machine is a bit older, having been
> purchased probably around 2001 or 2002.  I'm a little fuzzy on the
> exact specs for this one - will have to look them up - but it has a
> 20GB HDD, think it's a P3, and the RAM was upgraded to 700 or so.
> 
> Thanks,
> Robby
> 
> On 1/22/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>> OK.
>> What are the specs of these machines?
>> Company, model, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> (feel free to contact me offline if it is better for you.)
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>> 
>>> If I remember properly, one has a copy of Arch Linux on it and the
>>> other is a very old installation of Windows XP.  I would wipe the
>>> drives if they got sold.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Robby
>>> 
>>> On 1/21/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> What OS do your desktops run?
>>>> What screenreader?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 21, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just wish to let everyone know that I have several items for sale.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a Braille Lite Millennium 40 that is still in pretty good shape
>>>>> - the display is in perfect condition despite being used for five
>>>>> years then being stored for about three years.  I'd like to sell it
>>>>> for $500 but will go for the best offer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a couple desktop computers that I would like to get rid of.
>>>>> Will give them up for $200 a piece or best offer - contact me for
>>>>> details.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also got a Romeo Pro 50 Braille embosser that I will sell for $1,000.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My email address is:
>>>>> spangler.robert at gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Robby
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Robert Spangler
>>> The University of Toledo
>>> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
>>> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
>>> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Robert Spangler
> The University of Toledo
> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Tue Jan 25 21:11:44 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:11:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] lions world
In-Reply-To: <4D3F2134.1050603@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000026713782@mailback1.g2host.com>

Josh,

How long is their program and will your family move with you?

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:15:00 -0500, Josh Kennedy wrote:

>So,
>what do you guys think of lions world? Julie Deden from the ccb 
>according to one of my friends she thinks its good. In fact I may call 
>her and ask her personally.

>Josh

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Jan 25 22:37:48 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:37:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] lions world
Message-ID: <33367369.1295995069441.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi Josh,
I think you're better off finishing college first; don't want to say how to live life, but it just seems like you'd be more motivated to study and follow through if you had to do it together.  
Do you think you'd be successful coming back to school a year later?  Wel you'd probably forget the stuff you already studied.

As for lions world, do investigate it; they do have several training programms and would place you in a job afterward; but you'd have to relocate to where they find you a job.
I heard good and bad things about lions world; the independence program is traditional where students live in dorms and you do not have as much freedom as you would at a nfb center; but the vocational training may be decent.
You should talk to staff and students and probably tour the facility before comitting to attend.  
There program is five months at least depending on the vocational program you attend; so consider also whether you can be away from yo so and wife that long.

Good luck.
Ashley

-----Original Message-----
>From: Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 25, 2011 2:15 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] lions world
>
>So,
>what do you guys think of lions world? Julie Deden from the ccb 
>according to one of my friends she thinks its good. In fact I may call 
>her and ask her personally.
>
>Josh
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Tue Jan 25 23:39:41 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:39:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] adult versus youth programing
Message-ID: <F0ABAF71-9AD5-433D-8D5D-2F9ABBFDDA56@mac.com>

Hi all:
As some of you may remember I posted earlier in the spring of last year asking questions regarding the NFB's training centers.

Well, I finally was able to attend BLIND INC., in Minneapolis,
and let me just say that was a great decision on my part.

My question is this:
as I am under 18, and, having the summer only, I attended Life 101 which is a 3 month long program.
So, I was wondering,
having had training at that program, do you think it would be worth it to go to the full
adult program before I go to college?
Would it reinforce my skills,
or not that much?

Would it be a plus?

If so, why or why not?


Thanks,

Jorge




From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 01:43:12 2011
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:43:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] college
In-Reply-To: <4D3F2047.2000300@gmail.com>
References: <4D3F2047.2000300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikBC1crdnzP+WSV0gL7117qg9JMN6uL+w_tkENs@mail.gmail.com>

Josh,

You have to get the certifications for desktop support which is a four
month program after a one-month eval and then you can get into the
MCSE class if that's what you want to do, but they are two different
programs, and you have to be certified as desktop support before you
can get certified as a MCSE.

Thanks.

On 25/01/2011, Josh Kennedy <jkenn337 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok guys,
> think I'm going after a new strategy here. I'm going to go to Lions
> world. Once I have a job then I will resume at capella. My voc rehab
> counselor suggested lions world. I can become certified has helpdesk
> desktop support technician microsoft certified engineer among other
> programs.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


From agrima at nbp.org  Wed Jan 26 02:16:34 2011
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:16:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NBP-Announce: Getting Started with the iPhone: An
 Introduction for	Blind Users!
Message-ID: <auto-000188046115@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Getting Started with the iPhone
An Introduction for Blind Users
By Anna Dresner and Dean Martineau
In braille, eBraille, ASCII text/Word, and DAISY formats, $18

The iPhone. You know you want one.

You can use your iPhone to check email and Twitter, listen to music, listen
to radio programs from faraway places, read eBooks, verify your walking or
driving location, pay bills and transfer funds, monitor the weather across
the planet, time recipes, awaken to the alarm clock, be reminded of
appointments, exchange text messages, play a wide variety of games, play the
auto harp and ocarina, fight with a light saber that makes different sounds
as you move your hand around, scan bar codes, make multi-track recordings,
cure a headache - even to make and receive telephone calls! You'll be blown
away by the power and flexibility of this device. To be able to do so much
with a gadget that fits into a pocket is absolutely amazing. And it's
accessible out of the  box!

In Getting Started with the iPhone, authors Anna Dresner and Dean Martineau
show you what's possible on the iPhone and get you up and running.

The book is divided into four main parts. Part 1 tells you what you need to
know before you can start using your iPhone: advice on purchasing an iPhone
and getting it ready to use.

In Part 2 you'll turn on your iPhone and begin to use it. You'll explore the
home screen, configure basic settings, make phone calls, and type using the
on-screen keyboard, a Bluetooth keyboard, and a braille display keyboard.

Part 3 goes through the wide variety of apps that come with the phone, and
shows how to purchase apps, music, and other fun content.

Finally, Part 4 includes a journal Anna wrote as she learned to use the
iPhone. It will give you an idea of what it's like to use an iPhone and how
you might go about learning new apps.

Appendix A compiles all the gestures - specific ways of touching the iPhone
screen. Appendix B includes answers to frequently asked questions, and
Appendix C lists resources you can use to learn more.

Read the complete table of contents at:
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/IPHONE.html


While this book focuses on the iPhone, most of it also applies to the iPod
Touch, and much of it applies to the iPad.

And don't forget - in honor of Louis Braille's birthday this month, order
anything before February 4th and you'll be automatically entered to win a
basket of Louis goodies. Order by phone, fax, mail, or website, and you
could win!


******
To order any books, send payment to:
NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302
Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520
Emails: orders at nbp.org
Or order any of our books online at
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html .


_______________________________________________
Nbp mailing list
Nbp at nbp.org

PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message and 
your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org .

Visit us at http://www.nbp.org




From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 26 04:14:21 2011
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:14:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
References: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <COL118-W52B9DA159D3AE9F46340A8BAFF0@phx.gbl>


Please forgive me, but how does hitting the down arrow several times mean that something is not accessible? It seems to me that if it was not accessible then you would not be able to use the program at all. Simply because the program does not appear to have all of the features you want does not necessarily mean that a blind person cannot use it. Just my two cents on the matter.
 
Elizabeth
 
> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I’m trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try thunderbird as my email client.
> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
> The problems I am finding so far:
> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread. It used to say “unread” when I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express. 
> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down several times to get there.
> 
> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 26 04:21:04 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:21:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <COL118-W52B9DA159D3AE9F46340A8BAFF0@phx.gbl>
References: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
	<COL118-W52B9DA159D3AE9F46340A8BAFF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0D0D0A73148243F0B4819B62BB35DB12@OwnerPC>

What I mean is jaws does not tell you everything it should.
Jaws should say what messages are unread as it did in outlook express.
In a list, normally you can type the letter of the option you want. That is 
standard in jaws.
But I found I have to arrow to everything in the tree list view.  Also a few 
buttons in the ribbon are not labeled. Unless you used windows live mail you 
don't know how accessible/user friendly it is.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Elizabeth
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:14 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail


Please forgive me, but how does hitting the down arrow several times mean 
that something is not accessible? It seems to me that if it was not 
accessible then you would not be able to use the program at all. Simply 
because the program does not appear to have all of the features you want 
does not necessarily mean that a blind person cannot use it. Just my two 
cents on the matter.

Elizabeth

> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
> Hi all,
>
> I’m trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try 
> thunderbird as my email client.
> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
> The problems I am finding so far:
> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and 
> alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread. It used to say “unread” when 
> I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do 
> in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down 
> several times to get there.
>
> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 26 04:46:21 2011
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:46:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <0D0D0A73148243F0B4819B62BB35DB12@OwnerPC>
References: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>,
	<COL118-W52B9DA159D3AE9F46340A8BAFF0@phx.gbl>,
	<0D0D0A73148243F0B4819B62BB35DB12@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <COL118-W10649BF8A777D77D8988B4BAFF0@phx.gbl>


Actually, yes, I have used windows live mail, and it seems to work just fine for me. Although I think it would be nice to be able to change the color scheme just a bit, but it seems to work fine for reading and composing emails. Again, just because something does not necessarily have all the features you want does not automatically mean that it is not accessible. 
 
Elizabeth 
 
> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:21:04 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
> 
> What I mean is jaws does not tell you everything it should.
> Jaws should say what messages are unread as it did in outlook express.
> In a list, normally you can type the letter of the option you want. That is 
> standard in jaws.
> But I found I have to arrow to everything in the tree list view. Also a few 
> buttons in the ribbon are not labeled. Unless you used windows live mail you 
> don't know how accessible/user friendly it is.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Elizabeth
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:14 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
> 
> 
> Please forgive me, but how does hitting the down arrow several times mean 
> that something is not accessible? It seems to me that if it was not 
> accessible then you would not be able to use the program at all. Simply 
> because the program does not appear to have all of the features you want 
> does not necessarily mean that a blind person cannot use it. Just my two 
> cents on the matter.
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
> > Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I’m trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try 
> > thunderbird as my email client.
> > Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
> > I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
> > Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
> > The problems I am finding so far:
> > 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and 
> > alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread. It used to say “unread” when 
> > I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
> > 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do 
> > in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down 
> > several times to get there.
> >
> > Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
> >
> > Ashley
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> > nabs-l:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  

From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 13:28:12 2011
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:28:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <COL118-W10649BF8A777D77D8988B4BAFF0@phx.gbl>
References: <546EAE03B2F446B6AF0CE1CC1B7BBAC0@OwnerPC>
	<COL118-W52B9DA159D3AE9F46340A8BAFF0@phx.gbl>
	<0D0D0A73148243F0B4819B62BB35DB12@OwnerPC>
	<COL118-W10649BF8A777D77D8988B4BAFF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikjxu4V107XkLDOrt34iaKt2SErKXL4SJY9MZAK@mail.gmail.com>

I have to use Windows Live for my college e-mail. While I truly hate
the program, and feel it is not screenreader-friednly, it *is*
accessible, if barely so. Accessibility means I can check my e-mails
using Windows Live. I can reply to the e-mails, though I usually
choose to reply using my GMail account, and I can download
attachments. It is accessible, but not friendly.

I agree that the term 'inaccessible' should be reserved for things
that are truly imposible to do with a sscreenreader. For example, I am
in a Spanish course, and the company's website has exercises that are
assigned for a grade. However, many of them have grapphics that have
no alt tag or text alternative. This makes those exercises
inaccessible to me. On the other hand, while the buttons in their
flash players are not labelled, their flash tutorials, which start
automatically, are accessible, but not friendly, because I can't
pause, rewind, or re-play without restarting the tutorial altogether.

Back on the topic of Windows Liiive, though...you said that it doesn't
say whether an e-mail si read or undread? This is not true. If you g
into your inbox, and you go to the first check mark with X, then arrow
down, it will say first who sent it, then either Unread or Read (which
is a link to bring up that e-mail), then the subject of the e-mail.
Once you click Unread or Read, hit H for heading, and it will take you
to the beginning of that e-mail. Just be aware that as you read the
e-mail, it's going to say 'clickable, clickable, clickable' all the
way through...this is annoying, but one can get used to it. I all but
ignore it nowadays.

I hope that h elps a little. If you are using Windows Live for your
college e-mailo account, talk to your schools' Disability Support
Services office and see if they have a technical specialist who can
work with you to help you improve your use of Windows Live. It will
never be super easy, but it doesn't have to be the hardest thing you
do.

If you hate Windows Live and have the option of foregoing using it, I
highly recommend GMail. the plain HTML format of GMail is very
helpful, and I am rarely frustrated with GMail, which means I can
check my e-mail without worrying about accessibility or firendliness
of the ce-mail client.

~Jewel

On 1/25/11, Elizabeth <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Actually, yes, I have used windows live mail, and it seems to work just fine
> for me. Although I think it would be nice to be able to change the color
> scheme just a bit, but it seems to work fine for reading and composing
> emails. Again, just because something does not necessarily have all the
> features you want does not automatically mean that it is not accessible.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:21:04 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>
>> What I mean is jaws does not tell you everything it should.
>> Jaws should say what messages are unread as it did in outlook express.
>> In a list, normally you can type the letter of the option you want. That
>> is
>> standard in jaws.
>> But I found I have to arrow to everything in the tree list view. Also a
>> few
>> buttons in the ribbon are not labeled. Unless you used windows live mail
>> you
>> don't know how accessible/user friendly it is.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elizabeth
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:14 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>
>>
>> Please forgive me, but how does hitting the down arrow several times mean
>> that something is not accessible? It seems to me that if it was not
>> accessible then you would not be able to use the program at all. Simply
>> because the program does not appear to have all of the features you want
>> does not necessarily mean that a blind person cannot use it. Just my two
>> cents on the matter.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
>> > Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I’m trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try
>> > thunderbird as my email client.
>> > Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>> > I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>> > Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>> > The problems I am finding so far:
>> > 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N
>> > and
>> > alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread. It used to say “unread”
>> > when
>> > I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
>> > 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally
>> > do
>> > in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow
>> > down
>> > several times to get there.
>> >
>> > Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>> >
>> > Ashley
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>  		 	   		
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com


From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 15:12:28 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:12:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question About Focus Braille Display
Message-ID: <AANLkTinNiua2KFUaDTXpmbYa4WwejWc=0H0u33k1Ws96@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I have a Focus 40 Braille display that I am using with JFW.  When I
use it in Word to read a document, when using the round button all the
way to the right on the front to scroll forward, I often see the Word
menu bar and other information when I only wish to see the text of the
document!

Would anyone have advice on how to get the most out of this device?
Also, when I am reading, it won't use the entire display to show
something - it will show a full line, I'll scroll, it will show a
couple words on the left side, then I must scroll again to see the
full line.

Thanks,
Robby

-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor


From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 15:14:01 2011
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:14:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Things for Sale
In-Reply-To: <410E87DB-1008-40DE-83C3-FD64C58201C6@mac.com>
References: <AANLkTi=yLa892z6duv4nozZ-8ehHpmnDv7QPfnXN26k7@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5C2E2EA-4E83-41F9-AA54-5FFA2967AFA6@mac.com>
	<AANLkTimwvrQXsDnsw0oRHLr3Lt1KjpHnLWt2AhjBbgk4@mail.gmail.com>
	<D5CD4A29-5D73-4800-94F1-22DEBB577E44@mac.com>
	<AANLkTinEgHOVOhU-creg4t_dgWvPx9noj7pfPoWeM1tz@mail.gmail.com>
	<410E87DB-1008-40DE-83C3-FD64C58201C6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim=hERHF9v0HY=GMBT2kQTgO5EGr15czYyMAiGT@mail.gmail.com>

$200 but will take best offer.  Oh I forgot to mention that it also
has a Creative Audigy II sound card in it.

Thanks,
Robby

On 1/25/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
> And what's your asking price for the 2004 model?
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> One of the machines is a Dell Dymension 3000 with 512 MB RAM, 40 GB
>> HDD and I believe it's a P4.  This machine was purchased near the end
>> of 2003 or 2004.  The other machine is a bit older, having been
>> purchased probably around 2001 or 2002.  I'm a little fuzzy on the
>> exact specs for this one - will have to look them up - but it has a
>> 20GB HDD, think it's a P3, and the RAM was upgraded to 700 or so.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Robby
>>
>> On 1/22/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>>> OK.
>>> What are the specs of these machines?
>>> Company, model, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> (feel free to contact me offline if it is better for you.)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I remember properly, one has a copy of Arch Linux on it and the
>>>> other is a very old installation of Windows XP.  I would wipe the
>>>> drives if they got sold.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Robby
>>>>
>>>> On 1/21/11, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> What OS do your desktops run?
>>>>> What screenreader?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 21, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just wish to let everyone know that I have several items for sale.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a Braille Lite Millennium 40 that is still in pretty good shape
>>>>>> - the display is in perfect condition despite being used for five
>>>>>> years then being stored for about three years.  I'd like to sell it
>>>>>> for $500 but will go for the best offer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a couple desktop computers that I would like to get rid of.
>>>>>> Will give them up for $200 a piece or best offer - contact me for
>>>>>> details.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also got a Romeo Pro 50 Braille embosser that I will sell for $1,000.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My email address is:
>>>>>> spangler.robert at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Robby
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Robert Spangler
>>>> The University of Toledo
>>>> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
>>>> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
>>>> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Spangler
>> The University of Toledo
>> Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
>> Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
>> Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - SSIPS Committee
Student Government Cabinet - Advanced Team
Mentoring Collaborative - Student Mentor


From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 15:55:04 2011
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:55:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nabslinkaudio.org and the conference calls
Message-ID: <AANLkTimYiU19KpNhDrX3Zw42mF-UQczPds7dP-4vRgH5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi There!
I wanted to advise all of you that we're experiencing a small
technical difficulty with the nabslinkaudio.org site. We had to move
the site to a new hosting provider, and we're experiencing a small
problem. Please know I'm doing everything I can to fix this so you can
hear previous calls and our most recent one on scholarships too!
>From David


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Wed Jan 26 15:42:30 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:42:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <0D0D0A73148243F0B4819B62BB35DB12@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <auto-000024258340@mailback2.g2host.com>

Ashley,

Which version of JFW are you using?  If you are not using JFW 11 or 12, you should try the demo and see if it makes a difference.  If you are using the 
latest version, you should contact Freedom Scientific as it is my understanding they had things working with Windows Live Mail pretty well.

While there is blame enough for everyone, it needs to be understood that Microsoft has been warning screen reader developers for several years that they 
will be using some different technology in some of their software.  Screen reader developers tend not to deal with warnings that much, because they have 
other priorities.  They deal with it not until it becomes reality as it is happening in this case.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:21:04 -0500, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:

>What I mean is jaws does not tell you everything it should.
>Jaws should say what messages are unread as it did in outlook express.
>In a list, normally you can type the letter of the option you want. That is 
>standard in jaws.
>But I found I have to arrow to everything in the tree list view.  Also a few 
>buttons in the ribbon are not labeled. Unless you used windows live mail you 
>don't know how accessible/user friendly it is.

>Ashley

>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Elizabeth
>Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:14 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail


>Please forgive me, but how does hitting the down arrow several times mean 
>that something is not accessible? It seems to me that if it was not 
>accessible then you would not be able to use the program at all. Simply 
>because the program does not appear to have all of the features you want 
>does not necessarily mean that a blind person cannot use it. Just my two 
>cents on the matter.

>Elizabeth

>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Im trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try 
>> thunderbird as my email client.
>> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>> The problems I am finding so far:
>> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and 
>> alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread. It used to say 
unread
 when 
>> I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
>> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do 
>> in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down 
>> several times to get there.
>>
>> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 16:38:26 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:38:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NLS and Audible
Message-ID: <136473311D354D3F8CBE917C6D79A490@Rufus>

Someone, I can't remember who, mentioned somewhere that NLS was looking at a
partnership with Audible.com.  I've Googled it but haven't found anything.
Am I mistaken, or is this really a possibility?

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing



From aphelps at BISM.org  Wed Jan 26 17:00:15 2011
From: aphelps at BISM.org (Amy Phelps)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:00:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NBP-Announce: Getting Started with the iPhone: An
	Introduction for	Blind Users!
In-Reply-To: <auto-000188046115@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000188046115@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC02E93646@blindmail.BISM.COM>



Thanks!  
Amy C. Phelps  
410-737-2642
Check out information about our summer youth program: Independence 2011 
Help support a blind youth to attend Indepenence 2011 Donate 



"...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business and do it as well as his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James H. Omvig
Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tony Grima
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:17 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] NBP-Announce: Getting Started with the iPhone: An Introduction for Blind Users!

Getting Started with the iPhone
An Introduction for Blind Users
By Anna Dresner and Dean Martineau
In braille, eBraille, ASCII text/Word, and DAISY formats, $18

The iPhone. You know you want one.

You can use your iPhone to check email and Twitter, listen to music, listen to radio programs from faraway places, read eBooks, verify your walking or driving location, pay bills and transfer funds, monitor the weather across the planet, time recipes, awaken to the alarm clock, be reminded of appointments, exchange text messages, play a wide variety of games, play the auto harp and ocarina, fight with a light saber that makes different sounds as you move your hand around, scan bar codes, make multi-track recordings, cure a headache - even to make and receive telephone calls! You'll be blown away by the power and flexibility of this device. To be able to do so much with a gadget that fits into a pocket is absolutely amazing. And it's accessible out of the  box!

In Getting Started with the iPhone, authors Anna Dresner and Dean Martineau show you what's possible on the iPhone and get you up and running.

The book is divided into four main parts. Part 1 tells you what you need to know before you can start using your iPhone: advice on purchasing an iPhone and getting it ready to use.

In Part 2 you'll turn on your iPhone and begin to use it. You'll explore the home screen, configure basic settings, make phone calls, and type using the on-screen keyboard, a Bluetooth keyboard, and a braille display keyboard.

Part 3 goes through the wide variety of apps that come with the phone, and shows how to purchase apps, music, and other fun content.

Finally, Part 4 includes a journal Anna wrote as she learned to use the iPhone. It will give you an idea of what it's like to use an iPhone and how you might go about learning new apps.

Appendix A compiles all the gestures - specific ways of touching the iPhone screen. Appendix B includes answers to frequently asked questions, and Appendix C lists resources you can use to learn more.

Read the complete table of contents at:
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/IPHONE.html


While this book focuses on the iPhone, most of it also applies to the iPod Touch, and much of it applies to the iPad.

And don't forget - in honor of Louis Braille's birthday this month, order anything before February 4th and you'll be automatically entered to win a basket of Louis goodies. Order by phone, fax, mail, or website, and you could win!


******
To order any books, send payment to:
NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520
Emails: orders at nbp.org
Or order any of our books online at
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html .


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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 26 17:02:20 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:02:20 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
Message-ID: <15751163.1296061341196.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Steve,
I do have the latest version of jaws; thanks for the suggestion.
I did not know microsoft told screen reader companies of the changes.  
I think its a great idea to call FS and bring it to their attention. I can use it to some extent.  But its my belief as i test its accessibility that windows live mail is not fully accessible; yes its partly accessible.  But what's most annoying is i cannot  tell what messages are unread with jaws. 
I can see that if I look closely because unread messages are highlighted but I should be able to glean this info with jaws.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>Sent: Jan 26, 2011 10:42 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>Ashley,
>
>Which version of JFW are you using?  If you are not using JFW 11 or 12, you should try the demo and see if it makes a difference.  If you are using the 
>latest version, you should contact Freedom Scientific as it is my understanding they had things working with Windows Live Mail pretty well.
>
>While there is blame enough for everyone, it needs to be understood that Microsoft has been warning screen reader developers for several years that they 
>will be using some different technology in some of their software.  Screen reader developers tend not to deal with warnings that much, because they have 
>other priorities.  They deal with it not until it becomes reality as it is happening in this case.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Steve Jacobson
>
>On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:21:04 -0500, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>
>>What I mean is jaws does not tell you everything it should.
>>Jaws should say what messages are unread as it did in outlook express.
>>In a list, normally you can type the letter of the option you want. That is 
>>standard in jaws.
>>But I found I have to arrow to everything in the tree list view.  Also a few 
>>buttons in the ribbon are not labeled. Unless you used windows live mail you 
>>don't know how accessible/user friendly it is.
>
>>Ashley
>
>>-----Original Message----- 
>>From: Elizabeth
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:14 PM
>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>
>
>>Please forgive me, but how does hitting the down arrow several times mean 
>>that something is not accessible? It seems to me that if it was not 
>>accessible then you would not be able to use the program at all. Simply 
>>because the program does not appear to have all of the features you want 
>>does not necessarily mean that a blind person cannot use it. Just my two 
>>cents on the matter.
>
>>Elizabeth
>
>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Im trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try 
>>> thunderbird as my email client.
>>> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>>> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>>> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>>> The problems I am finding so far:
>>> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and 
>>> alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread. It used to say unread when 
>>> I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
>>> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do 
>>> in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down 
>>> several times to get there.
>>>
>>> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 18:27:31 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:27:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] re lions world
Message-ID: <4D406793.4010101@gmail.com>

Hi

Their program is 4 months long. my family will move once I have an 
established job somewhere and a place for them to live.


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Wed Jan 26 18:30:33 2011
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:30:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
In-Reply-To: <15751163.1296061341196.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000024261015@mailback2.g2host.com>

Ashley,

Also, it may matter which version of Windows Live Mail you have, 2010 or the new 2011, as well, so you may need to know that when you contact Freedom 
Scientific.  

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:02:20 -0500 (GMT-05:00), bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:

>Hi Steve,
>I do have the latest version of jaws; thanks for the suggestion.
>I did not know microsoft told screen reader companies of the changes.  
>I think its a great idea to call FS and bring it to their attention. I can use it to some extent.  But its my belief as i test its accessibility that windows live mail is 
not fully accessible; yes its partly accessible.  But what's most annoying is i cannot  tell what messages are unread with jaws. 
>I can see that if I look closely because unread messages are highlighted but I should be able to glean this info with jaws.

>Ashley

>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>Sent: Jan 26, 2011 10:42 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>
>>Ashley,
>>
>>Which version of JFW are you using?  If you are not using JFW 11 or 12, you should try the demo and see if it makes a difference.  If you are using the 
>>latest version, you should contact Freedom Scientific as it is my understanding they had things working with Windows Live Mail pretty well.
>>
>>While there is blame enough for everyone, it needs to be understood that Microsoft has been warning screen reader developers for several years that 
they 
>>will be using some different technology in some of their software.  Screen reader developers tend not to deal with warnings that much, because they have 
>>other priorities.  They deal with it not until it becomes reality as it is happening in this case.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Steve Jacobson
>>
>>On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 23:21:04 -0500, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>>>What I mean is jaws does not tell you everything it should.
>>>Jaws should say what messages are unread as it did in outlook express.
>>>In a list, normally you can type the letter of the option you want. That is 
>>>standard in jaws.
>>>But I found I have to arrow to everything in the tree list view.  Also a few 
>>>buttons in the ribbon are not labeled. Unless you used windows live mail you 
>>>don't know how accessible/user friendly it is.
>>
>>>Ashley
>>
>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>From: Elizabeth
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:14 PM
>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>
>>
>>>Please forgive me, but how does hitting the down arrow several times mean 
>>>that something is not accessible? It seems to me that if it was not 
>>>accessible then you would not be able to use the program at all. Simply 
>>>because the program does not appear to have all of the features you want 
>>>does not necessarily mean that a blind person cannot use it. Just my two 
>>>cents on the matter.
>>
>>>Elizabeth
>>
>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 18:14:01 -0500
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] windows live mail
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Im trying to figure out whether to stay with windows live mail or try 
>>>> thunderbird as my email client.
>>>> Live mail is the new version of outlook express.
>>>> I really need to create message rules to sort emails.
>>>> Do you have these problems if you use it with jaws?
>>>> The problems I am finding so far:
>>>> 1. While I can read and send email using shortcut keys like control N and 
>>>> alt S, jaws does not tell me what is unread. It used to say 
unread
 when 
>>>> I arrowed to an unread message in outlook express.
>>>> 2. I cannot arrow through the list using the first letter as I normally do 
>>>> in a list. For instance D for deleted items; instead I have to arrow down 
>>>> several times to get there.
>>>>
>>>> Can this be fixed or is this just partly inaccessible?
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


>Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 20:39:45 2011
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:39:45 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Yodisabledproud] White House Youth Kickoff Call
 2011! Tonight January 26th 9pm Eastern Standard Time,
 6pm Pacific Standard Time
In-Reply-To: <95492840868F0D4EA1E69C00409EAEEE27710D4D5B@UTOPIA.CFSBS.local>
References: <95492840868F0D4EA1E69C00409EAEEE27710D4D5B@UTOPIA.CFSBS.local>
Message-ID: <AANLkTingz5KEy_Jv0=Hu5Vc=f7poQmvUcaL2=RpgmLzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like an interesting oppertunity, please pass to  interested individuals

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ELizabeth Pope <ELizabeth at cfilc.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:09:20 -0800
Subject: [Yodisabledproud] White House Youth Kickoff Call 2011!
Tonight January 26th 9pm Eastern Standard Time, 6pm Pacific Standard
Time
To: "yodisabledproud at cftalk.org" <yodisabledproud at cftalk.org>

Greetings YO! members,



The White House is holding a Youth Kickoff Call 2011! Please be a part of it.



Details  are below:



Friends of the White House,



Happy Wednesday. This is an especially big week here at the White
House, and I wanted to make sure you knew about an opportunity to talk
with the President's Senior Advisor David Plouffe and his Assistant &
Director of Special Projects, Stephanie Cutter TONIGHT!



Just 24-hours after the President gave the State of the Union Address,
we will be holding this Youth Kickoff Call for 2011. Young Americans
may be particularly interested in a number of issues ranging from jobs
and the economy to the Affordable Care Act - the new health reform law
- and education.



Wednesday January 26 at 9 p.m. EST, 6 p.m. California time.



Sign up to join the call. Feel free to forward to anyone else who
might be interested:



http://www.whitehouse.gov/youthcall


Best,

Elizabeth Pope
Youth Advocate
1234 H Street Suite 100
Sacramento, CA 95814
916-325-1690 ext. 342
866-296-9753 Toll Free
916-325-1695 TDD
916-325-1699 Fax
email: elizabeth at cfilc.org
www.yodisabledproud.org
www.calylf.org
www.cfilc.org

[cid:image001.jpg at 01CBBD41.19115000]<http://recovery.ca.gov/>





-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace

"You could be shown the road, given the vehicle, even handed the key.
But only you can have the drive."
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From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 23:10:56 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:10:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] capella and lions world
Message-ID: <4D40AA00.7090201@gmail.com>

Hi

sorry if I sent 2 coppies of this. I called capella. If I get the 
desktop support certifications and microsoft certified engineer 
certifications. depending on how many certifications I get it could 
knock 7 to 8 semesters off of my classes at capella. I called my 
adviser, asked him about taking off to go to lions world. my adviser at 
capella university told me this. So my certifications I'll get at lions 
world will count towards me getting quite a good number of college 
credits from capella and possibly having many classes waved.

Josh


From jkenn337 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 23:12:42 2011
From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:12:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Capella University: Prior Learning Assessment
Message-ID: <4D40AA6A.4020501@gmail.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Capella University: Prior Learning Assessment
Date: 	Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:45:47 -0600
From: 	Beth, Matthew <Matthew.Beth at capella.edu>
To: 	JKENNEDY21 at CAPELLAUNIVERSITY.EDU <JKENNEDY21 at CAPELLAUNIVERSITY.EDU>



Hi Josh,
Thank you so much for your call!
I think it is a fantastic opportunity for you and, with these
certifications, you have the potential to lessen your time to degree
completion significantly. Below is a link to our Prior Learning
Assessment page (which lists all of the IT certifications and the
courses that you would receive credit for.
_https://campus.capella.edu/web/programs/credit-for-prior-learning/pla-course-petition-center/undergraduate-documented-credit/#CNNA_
Please do let me know if you have any questions Josh!
All my very best!
Cheers,
Matt
*Matthew Beth*| Academic Advisor | *225 South 6th Street, 9th Floor*|
Minneapolis, MN 55402
_undergraduate_academicadvisors at capella.edu_ <www.capella.edu>|
*1-888-227-3552, Option 2, Option 4, Option 4*| Fax: 612-977-5060
*******Internet Email Confidentiality Footer*********
Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If
you are not the addressee indicated on this message, (or responsible for
delivery of the message to such person) you may not copy or deliver this
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kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if
you or your employer does not consent to Internet email for messages of
this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message
that do not relate to the official business of my business shall be
understood as neither given nor endorsed by it.


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Wed Jan 26 23:49:59 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 18:49:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] capella and lions world
In-Reply-To: <4D40AA00.7090201@gmail.com>
References: <4D40AA00.7090201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5D77662-7725-463F-88E8-3E82E2D816E9@mac.com>

Josh:
I am not one to suggest you should leave school,
 but if this will resolve in classes being waved,
I say go for it.

As long as it enhances your study ,
its fine.



Just my opinion.


Jorge


On Jan 26, 2011, at 6:10 PM, Josh Kennedy wrote:

> Hi
> 
> sorry if I sent 2 coppies of this. I called capella. If I get the desktop support certifications and microsoft certified engineer certifications. depending on how many certifications I get it could knock 7 to 8 semesters off of my classes at capella. I called my adviser, asked him about taking off to go to lions world. my adviser at capella university told me this. So my certifications I'll get at lions world will count towards me getting quite a good number of college credits from capella and possibly having many classes waved.
> 
> Josh
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Thu Jan 27 00:15:53 2011
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:15:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
Message-ID: <F96391BA5DE14C8982328490DDC2916F@SerenaPC>

Hi all,

 

How does Jaws version 11 work with Power Point slides?

 

Thanks,

Serena


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:19:03 2011
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:19:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] XL question
Message-ID: <28764189F12142D7B75E7AC7702EC21A@hometwxakonvzn>

How do you create a total some in XL? Basically, I'm planning a trip to see my girlfriend, and I know my cab fare is seven bucks, my train ticket round trip is eighty bucks, etc. Or should I just use the calkulater? RJ

From serenacucco at verizon.net  Thu Jan 27 00:19:36 2011
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:19:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
Message-ID: <788A4D0195C8483C9D9E8587FB76E0BF@SerenaPC>

Hi all,

 

For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a computer lab to do
data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class assignment.  Is
SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a fellow
student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't want to spend too
much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.

 

Thanks,

Serena


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:25:46 2011
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:25:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
References: <788A4D0195C8483C9D9E8587FB76E0BF@SerenaPC>
Message-ID: <E3B49222FEE142008F673261FA33ED71@hometwxakonvzn>

What is SPSS? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS


> Hi all,
>
>
>
> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a computer lab to do
> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class assignment.  Is
> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a 
> fellow
> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't want to spend 
> too
> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Serena
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:25:46 2011
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:25:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
References: <788A4D0195C8483C9D9E8587FB76E0BF@SerenaPC>
Message-ID: <CF64F8F3920E4D0DBF4319D3350ABBD1@hometwxakonvzn>

What is SPSS? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS


> Hi all,
>
>
>
> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a computer lab to do
> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class assignment.  Is
> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a 
> fellow
> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't want to spend 
> too
> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Serena
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:32:56 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:32:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
In-Reply-To: <E3B49222FEE142008F673261FA33ED71@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <788A4D0195C8483C9D9E8587FB76E0BF@SerenaPC>
	<E3B49222FEE142008F673261FA33ED71@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikjax4b8m6mduDkF+T2m3DLuy1yZwm+f7b=Ncnr@mail.gmail.com>

SPSS is a statistical software. Since it is only one assignment, I
would use a reader. However, if you are doing a thesis for your
masters and going into the research field, I think it would be wise
for you to research different statistical softwares such as Vassar
Stats, or R, and see if they are accessible with various screen
readers. I did not have any luck with JAWS and SPSS in the 2 courses i
took in which it was required, but I have heard that NVDA works with
it, but have not had time to investigate. You can do Pearson's
correlations, and T Tests along with descriptive statistics in Excel
using by writing out the formulas. I'm sure if you google it, you can
find out how to write the formulas. I'm sorry, I don't have them
listed in a document.

Hope this helps, and I'm sorry I can't offer you a more positive
answer regarding JAWS.

Cindy

On 1/26/11, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is SPSS? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a computer lab to do
>> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class assignment.  Is
>> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a
>> fellow
>> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
>> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't want to spend
>> too
>> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Serena
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:38:36 2011
From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:38:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] washington seminar
Message-ID: <AANLkTinYAQ_Juaf=JGbxD2p3eN4VsS9ohm5BUF=LzvL+@mail.gmail.com>

will there be a tour of the national center this year? Who will be all their
at Washington Seminar as far as students and people on this list?

From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:38:50 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:38:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] XL question
In-Reply-To: <28764189F12142D7B75E7AC7702EC21A@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <28764189F12142D7B75E7AC7702EC21A@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim4fx=ucZWc+Kw-Oy2CF_ZsJqVyecpnuLYfrk_m@mail.gmail.com>

I love to use Excel for formulas. You can do much more than add, and
i'm sure if you google it, you can find syntax for several formulas.
If you are interested in typing the individual cell numbers that you
want to add, you would navigate to the cell in which you want to type
your formula, and press the = key. then type, without the quotation
marks as follows of course replacing it with the cells you intend to
add, "sum(a1,b2,c3) and press enter. Typically JAWS moves to the next
cell down, so you can press the up arrow and find your answer. If the
cells you are adding are right next to each other, sometimes it is
easier to write a formula that represents a range of cells to save
time. For example, you would type the equals sign then, "sum(a1:d1).
the colon includes each cell in the range from a1 to d1. If you
accidentally type a formula wrong or want to replace it with a
different one, pressing the delete key on that cell will clear the
formula.

Hope this helps, and like I said, there are a ton of other things you
can do with Excel formulas that google could definitely help with.

Cindy

On 1/26/11, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> How do you create a total some in XL? Basically, I'm planning a trip to see
> my girlfriend, and I know my cab fare is seven bucks, my train ticket round
> trip is eighty bucks, etc. Or should I just use the calkulater? RJ
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From inland2wards at att.net  Thu Jan 27 00:41:39 2011
From: inland2wards at att.net (Anne Ward)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:41:39 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for input for a new anti-bullying website
Message-ID: <378C23E83B854107AAD911CF0382A124@dennisPC>

 
Jacob Lesner-Buxton is starting an anti-bullying website, and looking for material to post on the site:  videos, advice, songs, essays, ??  Jacob is a 27 year old grad student at Cal State East Bay, going for his master's in Sociology.  He is the son of Judith Lesner and Buck Buxton.  Please check out Jake on the link, and if you have relevant material to post, or know someone who might, please take action.

 
Hey check out  my anti-bullying youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1V_NoFmKXo


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:44:10 2011
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:44:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] XL question
References: <28764189F12142D7B75E7AC7702EC21A@hometwxakonvzn>
	<AANLkTim4fx=ucZWc+Kw-Oy2CF_ZsJqVyecpnuLYfrk_m@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6021A6436DA4A368C46EAA6CA3D7690@hometwxakonvzn>

Thanks Cindy. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] XL question


>I love to use Excel for formulas. You can do much more than add, and
> i'm sure if you google it, you can find syntax for several formulas.
> If you are interested in typing the individual cell numbers that you
> want to add, you would navigate to the cell in which you want to type
> your formula, and press the = key. then type, without the quotation
> marks as follows of course replacing it with the cells you intend to
> add, "sum(a1,b2,c3) and press enter. Typically JAWS moves to the next
> cell down, so you can press the up arrow and find your answer. If the
> cells you are adding are right next to each other, sometimes it is
> easier to write a formula that represents a range of cells to save
> time. For example, you would type the equals sign then, "sum(a1:d1).
> the colon includes each cell in the range from a1 to d1. If you
> accidentally type a formula wrong or want to replace it with a
> different one, pressing the delete key on that cell will clear the
> formula.
>
> Hope this helps, and like I said, there are a ton of other things you
> can do with Excel formulas that google could definitely help with.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/26/11, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> How do you create a total some in XL? Basically, I'm planning a trip to 
>> see
>> my girlfriend, and I know my cab fare is seven bucks, my train ticket 
>> round
>> trip is eighty bucks, etc. Or should I just use the calkulater? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 00:46:34 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:46:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
In-Reply-To: <F96391BA5DE14C8982328490DDC2916F@SerenaPC>
References: <F96391BA5DE14C8982328490DDC2916F@SerenaPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTincwJP88214LDMFKY7M36MFwg+LQdwfj=WR0A0i@mail.gmail.com>

It depends what you intend to do. If you just intend to read a
powerpoint with class notes, I find it more efficient to export the
slides to Microsoft Word. To do this, assuming you have office 2007,
Press alt f, u, and click on "create handouts in Microsoft Office
word." You can then tab over a couple of times, and choose how you
want the slides to appear. Since I don't need pictures, or space to
handwrite, i prefer ""outline only." Press enter, and a document will
open with all of the information bulletted.

If you are interested in creating a PowerPoint to present, I found
that this URL has a great tutorial.

http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/training-powerpoint.asp

That being said, if it is for a class presentation, or if you are
interested in different slides than the tutorial teaches, I definitely
reccomend a reader, or someone with a good eye for color and placement
to make your presentation as interesting as possible.

Cindy

On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> How does Jaws version 11 work with Power Point slides?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Serena
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 27 00:53:53 2011
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
In-Reply-To: <788A4D0195C8483C9D9E8587FB76E0BF@SerenaPC>
Message-ID: <875702.8936.qm@web162013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I would actually work with a fellow student with this assignment but then try to learn SPSS. I went to the menu bar and played around with to learn it. I is not once you learn it. SPSS is a statistic program used to do social science data analysis.
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Wed, 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:

> From: Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 6:19 PM
> Hi all,
> 
>  
> 
> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a
> computer lab to do
> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day
> in-class assignment.  Is
> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better
> to work with a fellow
> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the
> future, if
> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so
> don't want to spend too
> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers,
> etc.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Serena
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


      


From amylsabo at comcast.net  Thu Jan 27 02:05:36 2011
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 02:05:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] washington seminar
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinYAQ_Juaf=JGbxD2p3eN4VsS9ohm5BUF=LzvL+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1485280021.1749950.1296093936328.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello albert,

i unfortunately won't be going to washington seminar this year due to many financial issues. but, i do plan to attend national convention this summer in orlando! thanks for asking and, i will talk to you soon!


hugs,
from amy	

----- Original Message -----
From: Albert Yoo <albert.k.yoo at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 00:38:36 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] washington seminar

will there be a tour of the national center this year? Who will be all their
at Washington Seminar as far as students and people on this list?
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net

From amylsabo at comcast.net  Thu Jan 27 02:08:45 2011
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 02:08:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] nabslinkaudio.org and the conference calls
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimYiU19KpNhDrX3Zw42mF-UQczPds7dP-4vRgH5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29610011.1750111.1296094125283.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello david,

thanks for lettinbg us know of this technical problem with the nabsaudio.org site. i went to it last night and, this problem must've happened today or something likje that... oh well! i will keep my eye out for it my dear and, thanks for the update on the site and the latest conference call on scholarships.

take care and, i will talk to you soon!


hugs always,
from amy	

----- Original Message -----
From: David Dunphy <djdrocks4ever at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:55:04 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] nabslinkaudio.org and the conference calls

Hi There!
I wanted to advise all of you that we're experiencing a small
technical difficulty with the nabslinkaudio.org site. We had to move
the site to a new hosting provider, and we're experiencing a small
problem. Please know I'm doing everything I can to fix this so you can
hear previous calls and our most recent one on scholarships too!
>From David

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net

From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Thu Jan 27 02:41:42 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:41:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for people willing to do a quick interview
Message-ID: <4914B5D2-EE19-4EE9-8D68-D1D4F9E7D0A9@mac.com>

Hello,
Its Jorge again.
Just looking for anyone who is going to the Blind Driver Challenge ® launch and who'd be willing to be interviewed either Saturday night or Sunday night for our technology network's coverage of the event.

Please email me off list if you're interested.


Jorge

From serenacucco at verizon.net  Thu Jan 27 03:31:51 2011
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:31:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
In-Reply-To: <CF64F8F3920E4D0DBF4319D3350ABBD1@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <53E227F6E79C4066BE94FEB6933ED586@SerenaPC>

It's a program for Stastics.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of RJ Sandefur
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:26 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS

What is SPSS? RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS


> Hi all,
>
>
>
> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a computer lab to do
> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class assignment.  Is
> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a 
> fellow
> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't want to spend 
> too
> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Serena
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
40gmail.com 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 03:42:02 2011
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (NabslinkAudioWebMaster)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 22:42:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download
Message-ID: <E1PiIkE-0000WW-1p@delivery.icastcenter.com>



Greetings!
This is an automatic notification to let you know that our latest conference call has been uploaded, and is now ready for you to download.

Title: The Nabs Conference Call For January 2011
Description: College semesters are in full swing again, and between books and other necessities, who doesn't need money in college? I know I did when I was in college, and I'm sure many of you do too.
Luckily, the NFB has an awesome scholarship program, and Patty Chang, head of the scholarship committee, and others speak with us about this amazing program. Apply, and who knows? Maybe you'll win, learn more about the nfb, get to convention, and so much more! This is a call you don't want to miss.


You can download the show directly at:
http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations/January2011ConferenceCall.mp3

Alternatively you can visit the archive page at:
http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations
to hear some of the other calls we've done.
Best regards,
David Dunphy And The Nabs Membership Committee
http://www.nabslinkaudio.org
http://www.nabslink.org


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 04:14:12 2011
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:14:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
In-Reply-To: <53E227F6E79C4066BE94FEB6933ED586@SerenaPC>
References: <CF64F8F3920E4D0DBF4319D3350ABBD1@hometwxakonvzn>
	<53E227F6E79C4066BE94FEB6933ED586@SerenaPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim5TUSgFJmtFftiuYyuUhmLX4Jjf3Nk-Z9UtkM-@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Serena,
Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And it is
accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right person in the
tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did absolutely
everything independently. However, it is a complex software even for
sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just work with a
reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same computer, and
get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will be using
this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar with it.
I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's something you're
interested in.
Good luck!
Sincerely


On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> It's a program for Stastics.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of RJ Sandefur
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:26 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
>
> What is SPSS? RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a computer lab to do
>> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class assignment.  Is
>> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a
>> fellow
>> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
>> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't want to spend
>> too
>> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Serena
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
> 40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
> n.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 04:16:58 2011
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:16:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] XL question
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim4fx=ucZWc+Kw-Oy2CF_ZsJqVyecpnuLYfrk_m@mail.gmail.com>
References: <28764189F12142D7B75E7AC7702EC21A@hometwxakonvzn>
	<AANLkTim4fx=ucZWc+Kw-Oy2CF_ZsJqVyecpnuLYfrk_m@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikobvNS6Mm5SVXqbTEHY1_GgZUqtuxVT4=Bcr4C@mail.gmail.com>

Hi RJ,
I think you should just use a calculator. I think that you should
leave learning Excel for more complex and involved stuff, such as big
chunks of data. You know?
Have fun!
Mary

On 1/26/11, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I love to use Excel for formulas. You can do much more than add, and
> i'm sure if you google it, you can find syntax for several formulas.
> If you are interested in typing the individual cell numbers that you
> want to add, you would navigate to the cell in which you want to type
> your formula, and press the = key. then type, without the quotation
> marks as follows of course replacing it with the cells you intend to
> add, "sum(a1,b2,c3) and press enter. Typically JAWS moves to the next
> cell down, so you can press the up arrow and find your answer. If the
> cells you are adding are right next to each other, sometimes it is
> easier to write a formula that represents a range of cells to save
> time. For example, you would type the equals sign then, "sum(a1:d1).
> the colon includes each cell in the range from a1 to d1. If you
> accidentally type a formula wrong or want to replace it with a
> different one, pressing the delete key on that cell will clear the
> formula.
>
> Hope this helps, and like I said, there are a ton of other things you
> can do with Excel formulas that google could definitely help with.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/26/11, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> How do you create a total some in XL? Basically, I'm planning a trip to
>> see
>> my girlfriend, and I know my cab fare is seven bucks, my train ticket
>> round
>> trip is eighty bucks, etc. Or should I just use the calkulater? RJ
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 04:22:57 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 23:22:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim5TUSgFJmtFftiuYyuUhmLX4Jjf3Nk-Z9UtkM-@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CF64F8F3920E4D0DBF4319D3350ABBD1@hometwxakonvzn>
	<53E227F6E79C4066BE94FEB6933ED586@SerenaPC>
	<AANLkTim5TUSgFJmtFftiuYyuUhmLX4Jjf3Nk-Z9UtkM-@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikNjOyWke8VVh8+V9z+ATvt-qFwC8w05tJ4C480@mail.gmail.com>

Wow that’s awesome! Is the java bridge available to download for free
online? That was another thing, all of the computers at school have
SPSS, but none are accessible to me, well with updated JAWS that is.
My school did buy a 6 month lease of SPSS for me to use on my personal
computer, but I hear that buying a real license is very expensive. We
got a 6 month trial on my computer, because Freedom Scientific did
give us a link to download scripts or something, it could have been
java bridge, but we followed the directions to no avail, but I am so
happy to hear that you have found success, because of all of the
related software I have worked with, it has been the most efficient
and can do the most complex tests.

Cindy


On 1/26/11, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Serena,
> Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And it is
> accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right person in the
> tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did absolutely
> everything independently. However, it is a complex software even for
> sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just work with a
> reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same computer, and
> get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will be using
> this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar with it.
> I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's something you're
> interested in.
> Good luck!
> Sincerely
>
>
> On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> It's a program for Stastics.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:26 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
>>
>> What is SPSS? RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a computer lab to do
>>> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class assignment.
>>> Is
>>> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a
>>> fellow
>>> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
>>> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't want to spend
>>> too
>>> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory University 2012
> P.O. Box 123056
> Atlanta Ga.
> 30322
> Phone: 732-857-7004
> "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
> most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
> teachers."
> Charles W. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Thu Jan 27 05:13:15 2011
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:13:15 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Free Matter for the Blind?
Message-ID: <61C0F8C3815A467DA13377BA619A08D6@stanford.edu>

Does anyone know the weight and size limit for Free Matter for the Blind?

Thanks,
Nicole

From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 27 12:29:07 2011
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 04:29:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim5TUSgFJmtFftiuYyuUhmLX4Jjf3Nk-Z9UtkM-@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <235939.10921.qm@web162019.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hello Mary,
I would actually be interested in having the SPSS guide in braille.

thanks
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Wed, 1/26/11, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 10:14 PM
> Hi Serena,
> Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And
> it is
> accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right
> person in the
> tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did
> absolutely
> everything independently. However, it is a complex software
> even for
> sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just
> work with a
> reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same
> computer, and
> get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will
> be using
> this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar
> with it.
> I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's
> something you're
> interested in.
> Good luck!
> Sincerely
> 
> 
> On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > It's a program for Stastics.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf
> > Of RJ Sandefur
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:26 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
> >
> > What is SPSS? RJ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
> >
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go
> to a computer lab to do
> >> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a
> one-day in-class assignment.  Is
> >> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it
> be better to work with a
> >> fellow
> >> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS
> in the future, if
> >> necessary?  I'm not too great at time
> management, so don't want to spend
> >> too
> >> much time learning SPSS when I have to study,
> write papers, etc.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Serena
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%
> > 40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
> > n.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory University 2012
> P.O. Box 123056
> Atlanta Ga.
> 30322
> Phone: 732-857-7004
> "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they
> are the
> most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most
> patient of
> teachers."
> Charles W. Eliot
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 




From aec732 at msn.com  Thu Jan 27 15:16:34 2011
From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:16:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] RFB&D books on car racing and driving!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1296064805.23374.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.19.1296064805.23374.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <COL123-W2628C3E841D422C49E7E4994FE0@phx.gbl>


Hey Folks!
 
Whether Daytona and the fabulous racei s part of your weekend plan, it may have whetted your appetite to learn more about car racing and driving . This bibliography from Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic is sure to have a title of interest -- including the biography of the first African American NASCAR driver! I'll see you Monday in DC!
I am pasting the lists in here because they're short and attachments may get blocked.
Until then, travel safely.
Annemarie Cooke
 
 

Adult Nonfiction
Book Number      JP328
Personal Name    DONOVAN, BRIAN
Title            HARD DRIVING : THE WENDELL SCOTT STORY : THE AMERICAN ODYSSEY
 OF NASCAR'S FIRST BLACK DRIVER
Published        STEERFORTH PRESS 2008
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             9781586421441
Adult Fiction
Book Number      HY666
Personal Name    McCrumb, Sharyn, 1948-
Title            St. Dale [sound recording] / Sharyn McCrumb.
Published        Kensington Books [2006], c2005
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             0758207778
ISBN             9780758207777
Summary          The Dale Ernhardt Memorial Pilgrimage is the last trip Judge
 Bekasu Holifield would have chosen for her vacation. but this year it's her
 sister Justine's turn to make their plans, and soon Bekasu's boarding a silver
 cruise bus for a tour of Southern stock car speed ways with Justine, their
 cousin Cayle, and a group of strangers -- all of whose lives have somehow been
 touched by the legendary racer they never met.
Subject (Name)   Earnhardt, Dale, 1951-2001 -- Influence -- Fiction.
Subject          Fans (Persons) -- Fiction.
Subject          Stock car drivers -- Fiction.
Subject          Stock car racing -- Fiction.
Juvenile Fiction
Book Number      JZ064
Personal Name    Wight, Eric
Title            Frankie Pickle and the Pine Run 3000 / Eric Wight
Published        Simon & Schuster Books For Young Readers 2010
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             1416964851
ISBN             9781416964858
Grade/Level      [Grades 1-5]
Summary          Fourth-grader Frankie Piccolini's vivid imagination does not
 help him advance in rank with the rest of his Possum Scout troop, but winning
 the Pine Run 3000 model car race would give him the points he needs.
Subject          Racing -- Juvenile fiction
Book Number      HP287
Personal Name    Peck, Richard, 1934-
Title            Here lies the librarian [sound recording] / Richard Peck.
Published        Dial Books c2006
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             0803730802
ISBN             9780803730809
Grade/Level      [Grades 5-11].
Summary          Fourteen-year-old Eleanor "Peewee" McGrath, a tomboy and
 automobile enthusiast, discovers new possibilities for her future after the
 1914 arrival in her small Indiana town of four young librarians.
Subject          American fiction -- 20th century.
Subject          Automobiles -- Juvenile fiction.
Subject          Automobile racing -- Juvenile fiction.
Book Number      JX109
Personal Name    Weaver, Will.
Title            Saturday night dirt [sound recording] / by Will Weaver.
Edition          1st Square 1st ed.
Published        Square Fish 2009, c2008
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             9780312561314
ISBN             0312561318
Grade/Level      [Grades 7-12].
Summary          In a small town in northern Minnesota, the much-anticipated
 Saturday night dirt-track race at the old-fashioned, barely viable Headwaters
 Speedway becomes, in many ways, an important life-changing event for all the
 participants on and off the track.
Subject          Automobile racing -- Juvenile fiction.
Subject          Stock car racing -- Juvenile fiction.
Juvenile Nonfiction
Book Number      JR954
Personal Name    Kulling, Monica.
Title            Eat my dust! [sound recording] : Henry Ford's first race / by
 Monica Kulling ; illustrated by Richard Walz.
Edition          1st ed.
Published        Random House c2004
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             0375815104
ISBN             9780375815102
Series Title     Step into reading. Step 3
Series Title     Step into reading. Step 3 book.
Grade/Level      [Grades 1-3].
Summary          Relates the excitement caused by Henry Ford as he drove the
 "horseless carriage" he built, particularly when he decided to win a race to
 get money to build a new car that anyone could afford.
Subject (Name)   Ford, Henry, 1863-1947 -- Juvenile literature.
Subject          Automobile engineers -- United States -- Biography -- Juvenile
 literature.
Subject          Automobiles, Racing -- Juvenile literature.
Subject          Industrialists -- Juvenile literature.
Subject          Automobile industry and trade -- Biography -- Juvenile
 literature.

PBook Number      HP917
Personal Name    Smith, Timothy C.
Title            Crashproof your kids [sound recording] : make your teen a
 safer, smarter driver / Timothy C. Smith.
Published        Simon & Schuster c2006
ISBN             0743277112
ISBN             9780743277112
Book Number      JP271
Personal Name    Crabb, Owen
Title            Drive right / Owen Crabb, Randall R. Thiel, Frederik R.
 Mottola, Elizabeth A. Weaver
Edition          11th ed
Published        Pearson 2010
Grade/Level      Grades 10-12
ISBN             0133612600
ISBN             9780133612608
Book Number      HR668
Personal Name    Peli, Eli.
Title            Driving with confidence [sound recording] : a practical guide
 to driving with low vision / Eli Peli, Doron Peli.
Published        World Scientific c2002
ISBN             9810247044
Book Number      HM227
Title            License to drive [sound recording] / ASD.
Edition          2nd ed.
Published        Thomson/Delmar Learning c2007
ISBN             1401879780
Book Number      HJ088
Title            Responsible driving [sound recording] / [consulting authors,
 John W. Palmer ... et al.].
Published        McGraw-Hill/Glencoe c2006
Grade/Level      Grades 9-12.
ISBN             0078678145
Book Number      HY165
Personal Name    Kimball, Richard S.
Title            Things to know about cars and driving [sound recording] / by
 Richard S. Kimball.
Published        J. Weston Walch c1998
Grade/Level      Grades 9-12. RL: 4.
ISBN             0825138280
ISBN             9780825138287 		 	   		  

From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 17:08:27 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:08:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikNjOyWke8VVh8+V9z+ATvt-qFwC8w05tJ4C480@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CF64F8F3920E4D0DBF4319D3350ABBD1@hometwxakonvzn><53E227F6E79C4066BE94FEB6933ED586@SerenaPC><AANLkTim5TUSgFJmtFftiuYyuUhmLX4Jjf3Nk-Z9UtkM-@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikNjOyWke8VVh8+V9z+ATvt-qFwC8w05tJ4C480@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65727731C849458FABF0D11902E41B01@Rufus>

Cindy,

The JAVA Access Bridge can be found here:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/index-jsp-136191.html

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Bennett
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:23 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS

Wow that's awesome! Is the java bridge available to download for free
online? That was another thing, all of the computers at school have
SPSS, but none are accessible to me, well with updated JAWS that is.
My school did buy a 6 month lease of SPSS for me to use on my personal
computer, but I hear that buying a real license is very expensive. We
got a 6 month trial on my computer, because Freedom Scientific did
give us a link to download scripts or something, it could have been
java bridge, but we followed the directions to no avail, but I am so
happy to hear that you have found success, because of all of the
related software I have worked with, it has been the most efficient
and can do the most complex tests.

Cindy


On 1/26/11, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Serena,
> Here's the deal. I usedSPSS for the last two semesters. And it is
> accessible with Jaws!!! You just have to find the right person in the
> tech department to install the java bridge for it. I did absolutely
> everything independently. However, it is a complex software even for
> sighted people, and so, for one assignment I would just work with a
> reader. But if you can get Jaws installed on the same computer, and
> get the Java bridge installed, and if your grad work will be using
> this in the future,than go ahead and start getting familiar with it.
> I actually have an spss guide in braille if that's something you're
> interested in.
> Good luck!
> Sincerely
>
>
> On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> It's a program for Stastics.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of RJ Sandefur
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:26 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
>>
>> What is SPSS? RJ
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Serena Cucco" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:19 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and SPSS
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For one of my graduate courses, my class will go to a 
computer lab to do
>>> data analysis using SPSS.  This is only a one-day in-class 
assignment.
>>> Is
>>> SPSS relatively easy to learn?  Or would it be better to work with a
>>> fellow
>>> student for this single assignment and learn SPSS in the future, if
>>> necessary?  I'm not too great at time management, so don't 
want to spend
>>> too
>>> much time learning SPSS when I have to study, write papers, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingj
acksandefur%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu
cco%40verizo
>> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian
551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory University 2012
> P.O. Box 123056
> Atlanta Ga.
> 30322
> Phone: 732-857-7004
> "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
> most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
> teachers."
> Charles W. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%
40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From aec732 at msn.com  Thu Jan 27 17:11:56 2011
From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:11:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Washington Seminar
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1296064805.23374.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.19.1296064805.23374.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <COL123-W20F355E1ECA319D9EFAF5C94FE0@phx.gbl>


Hey NABSters attending the Washington Seminar on Monday:
 Do any of you use Read Hear, RFB&D's free new reading software that works on MAC as well as PC? If so, I'd love to treat you to lunch and talk about how you  use Read Hear and how it's working for you. Look for me at the Seminar or shoot me a private message beforehand so I can find you. I will be staying at the holiday Inn.
Thanks, all! Look forward to seeing you.
Annemarie Cooke 		 	   		  

From TAnnis at afb.net  Thu Jan 27 19:09:38 2011
From: TAnnis at afb.net (Tara Annis)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:09:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1296151206.9228.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.21.1296151206.9228.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F4502A4@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com>

Blind Inc. used to give out a CD that explained  about their program; and on this CD was a list of skills their staff thought a blind person should master.  It may have been  specific graduation requirements, but I am not sure, since it was fairly  extensive.  It had all areas of the  curriculum, such as technology, cooking, cleaning, and travel.  I have seen similar lists from other blindness agencies, but they  list   less challenging activities.  
I want my consumers to have a positive outlook on life, and strive for  the most independence, so I would like to find this list online.  Do any of you know if it is on  the blind inc web site?  If not, I will l call the agency and see if I can get the CD, but I thought I  would try and save time to find it on the Internet.



From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Thu Jan 27 19:56:30 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 14:56:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question
In-Reply-To: <8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F4502A4@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com>
References: <mailman.21.1296151206.9228.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F4502A4@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com>
Message-ID: <53772C1E-8FB3-453D-9CD6-F85583E618DB@mac.com>

Yeah.
Its on the site under audio browsure.


On Jan 27, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Tara Annis wrote:

> Blind Inc. used to give out a CD that explained  about their program; and on this CD was a list of skills their staff thought a blind person should master.  It may have been  specific graduation requirements, but I am not sure, since it was fairly  extensive.  It had all areas of the  curriculum, such as technology, cooking, cleaning, and travel.  I have seen similar lists from other blindness agencies, but they  list   less challenging activities.  
> I want my consumers to have a positive outlook on life, and strive for  the most independence, so I would like to find this list online.  Do any of you know if it is on  the blind inc web site?  If not, I will l call the agency and see if I can get the CD, but I thought I  would try and save time to find it on the Internet.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 23:10:15 2011
From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:10:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blind drive challenge
Message-ID: <AANLkTikqSo86V_1CFRc8wq7jbzLRSOY51djTv797-rFd@mail.gmail.com>

David Andrews, will the blind driver car challenge be streamed through the
nfb website? Will it start at 8 A.M.? I am looking forward to the first time
event. Albert

From amylsabo at comcast.net  Fri Jan 28 00:07:02 2011
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 00:07:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question
In-Reply-To: <8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F4502A4@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com>
Message-ID: <1509545543.1798835.1296173222807.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello tara,

as for the cd that you have mentioned here on the list yes, there was a cd that they put out but, if you contacted them they might have it for you... but, there's a audio brochure that is done and is available on their web site at www.blindinc..org
and, that's where you will find it!

i hope this helps you out. take care anhd, i will talk to you soon.


hugs,
from amy	

----- Original Message -----
From: Tara Annis <TAnnis at afb.net>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:09:38 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question

Blind Inc. used to give out a CD that explained  about their program; and on this CD was a list of skills their staff thought a blind person should master.  It may have been  specific graduation requirements, but I am not sure, since it was fairly  extensive.  It had all areas of the  curriculum, such as technology, cooking, cleaning, and travel.  I have seen similar lists from other blindness agencies, but they  list   less challenging activities.  
I want my consumers to have a positive outlook on life, and strive for  the most independence, so I would like to find this list online.  Do any of you know if it is on  the blind inc web site?  If not, I will l call the agency and see if I can get the CD, but I thought I  would try and save time to find it on the Internet.


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net

From carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 00:23:58 2011
From: carroll.kathryn.e at gmail.com (Kate Carroll)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:23:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Mobility International USA summer exchange program for
 young adults with disabilities application!!
Message-ID: <AANLkTimYURcqJQ=n+=V-NNW-hz8yuQ2eAUK_MHh_1K0C@mail.gmail.com>

Dear NABS,

Attached is the information you need to apply to the next MIUSA 10-day
summer exchange program in Spain for young people with disabilities! I went
on the trip to Costa Rica last summer and had an excellent time. Application
is open to persons aged 18-25 with a disability and living in the NYC area.
People from cultural minorities and low-income backgrounds are encouraged to
apply!! Applications are due March 1, 2011. Please consider applying - it's
a great opportunity.

If you have any questions about my experience with the program, please feel
free to contact me.

Cheers,

-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
St. John's University College of Law 2013
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 00:25:10 2011
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:25:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] blind drive challenge
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikqSo86V_1CFRc8wq7jbzLRSOY51djTv797-rFd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikqSo86V_1CFRc8wq7jbzLRSOY51djTv797-rFd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED2ECB75-8ED6-4B2C-8023-1AF21D1AFE82@gmail.com>

I'm actually going to miss it as I have class that day and i need my sleep. lol! but too bad I was not there or that would have gone on my podcast definatly!

S
On Jan 27, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Albert Yoo wrote:

> David Andrews, will the blind driver car challenge be streamed through the
> nfb website? Will it start at 8 A.M.? I am looking forward to the first time
> event. Albert
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Jan 28 01:05:44 2011
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:05:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question
In-Reply-To: <1509545543.1798835.1296173222807.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F4502A4@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com>
	<1509545543.1798835.1296173222807.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=2nUJSoUqU4L=WYYeKa=iwRXW1eHP9qB-5G0J_@mail.gmail.com>

What was that cd that was on every table at the karaoke event at the
Dallas, (NFB convention?) That might have been the one that's being
discussed on this list. Hope this helps. Blessings, Joshua

On 1/27/11, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
> hello tara,
>
> as for the cd that you have mentioned here on the list yes, there was a cd
> that they put out but, if you contacted them they might have it for you...
> but, there's a audio brochure that is done and is available on their web
> site at www.blindinc..org
> and, that's where you will find it!
>
> i hope this helps you out. take care anhd, i will talk to you soon.
>
>
> hugs,
> from amy	
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tara Annis <TAnnis at afb.net>
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:09:38 -0000 (UTC)
> Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question
>
> Blind Inc. used to give out a CD that explained  about their program; and on
> this CD was a list of skills their staff thought a blind person should
> master.  It may have been  specific graduation requirements, but I am not
> sure, since it was fairly  extensive.  It had all areas of the  curriculum,
> such as technology, cooking, cleaning, and travel.  I have seen similar
> lists from other blindness agencies, but they  list   less challenging
> activities.
> I want my consumers to have a positive outlook on life, and strive for  the
> most independence, so I would like to find this list online.  Do any of you
> know if it is on  the blind inc web site?  If not, I will l call the agency
> and see if I can get the CD, but I thought I  would try and save time to
> find it on the Internet.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Jan 28 01:18:33 2011
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:18:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with Dazy player
Message-ID: <AANLkTinR7oxbtO0Jmux3jaNFPSzxmetO8h3aoe0=880F@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I'm Joshua Lester. Some of you, I've met at the convention, last
year. Some of you, i don't know. I just joined the NABS list today,
because I'm a college student. I've been blind since birth. I've known
Braille, and used it all of my life. Because of this, I've had a
distaste for audiobooks. I'd rather have them in Braille. I have had
trouble in college classes, because they don't have any of the books
in Braille. The Dazy player has become a problem. To my knowledge,
there is no way to pause the player, and go back so it will repeat the
last line. How do I get the Dazy player to go back? If there's no way,
are there any college textbooks on www.bookshare.org? I'm a member of
Bookshare. Thanks for your help. Blessings, Joshua


From bpollpeter at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 28 01:58:57 2011
From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:58:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] New Slate & Style Editor Welcomes Submissions for all
	Forms of Writing
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP266C6841E0329652650158C4E10@phx.gbl>

Dear Friends,

 

As new editor for Slate & Style, magazine for the NFB Writers Division,
I am working with President Robert Newman, and those interested, to
create a fresh publication that can gain attention throughout the
Federation and perhaps beyond.  Many members of the division and email
list, Stylist, write literature, but we want to incorporate all genres
and styles-journalism, technical, music, newsletter, literature, etc.

As we set a new pace for Slate & Style, I want to include articles that
discuss various tips and style guides along with practical applications
for different forms of writing.  Slate & Style will continue to publish
short literature pieces-fiction and creative nonfiction-along with
poetry, but we are broadening our horizons.  The Federation has a lot of
talent to offer that encompasses a wide range of writing forms.

Our next issue of Slate & Style will release this spring.  All
submissions must be turned in by April 3 for consideration in the spring
issue.  Please follow the submission guidelines listed:

Articles are to be 1000 words or less.  Fiction and creative nonfiction
submissions are to be 3000 words or less.  Poems are to be 36 lines or
less.

Include a title page with author name, title of each piece and contact
info-phone, email and address.  Please include a brief bio of
yourself-no more than 150 words.

All email submissions must be attachments and sent to
bpollpeter at hotmail.com.  Do not paste entries into the body of an email.
In the subject line, write:  Slate & Style submission, name, title.

If you send a submission via snail mail, please use a standard font so
it can be scanned with no complications.

Use MS Word or create an RTF for all submissions.

Make sure to proofread and check your own grammar and formatting.

Slate & Style will consider all submissions for publication.  However,
please refrain from graphic sexual and violent content as well as
language and anti-religious, anti-gender, anti-racial and anti-sexual
orientation content.  Material will be published according to the
discretion of the editor though.

Please direct questions and comments to Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter at
<mailto:bpollpeter at hotmail.com> bpollpeter at hotmail.com, or 402.350.1735.

I look forward to developing a new voice with Slate & Style.  Your
contributions will pave the road for our future ahead.

 

Sincerely,

Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter

Editor, Slate & Style


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 02:14:52 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:14:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with Dazy player
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinR7oxbtO0Jmux3jaNFPSzxmetO8h3aoe0=880F@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinR7oxbtO0Jmux3jaNFPSzxmetO8h3aoe0=880F@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=bZDQ+r_6hMnq10avGTQ7EuzGfvrCvepRyMwwT@mail.gmail.com>

Josh,
It all depends upon what player you're using. If you told me the
specific type of player, maybe I could help.
Patrick

On 1/27/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Hi, I'm Joshua Lester. Some of you, I've met at the convention, last
> year. Some of you, i don't know. I just joined the NABS list today,
> because I'm a college student. I've been blind since birth. I've known
> Braille, and used it all of my life. Because of this, I've had a
> distaste for audiobooks. I'd rather have them in Braille. I have had
> trouble in college classes, because they don't have any of the books
> in Braille. The Dazy player has become a problem. To my knowledge,
> there is no way to pause the player, and go back so it will repeat the
> last line. How do I get the Dazy player to go back? If there's no way,
> are there any college textbooks on www.bookshare.org? I'm a member of
> Bookshare. Thanks for your help. Blessings, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Fri Jan 28 02:26:39 2011
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena Cucco)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:26:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTincwJP88214LDMFKY7M36MFwg+LQdwfj=WR0A0i@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53B77B3E780F464CAAAA6BCB6351EB3F@SerenaPC>

Hi Cindy and all,

Actually, I have Word 2003.  Can I still export the power point slides to
Word?  All I want to do is read class notes.

Serena

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Bennett
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point

It depends what you intend to do. If you just intend to read a
powerpoint with class notes, I find it more efficient to export the
slides to Microsoft Word. To do this, assuming you have office 2007,
Press alt f, u, and click on "create handouts in Microsoft Office
word." You can then tab over a couple of times, and choose how you
want the slides to appear. Since I don't need pictures, or space to
handwrite, i prefer ""outline only." Press enter, and a document will
open with all of the information bulletted.

If you are interested in creating a PowerPoint to present, I found
that this URL has a great tutorial.

http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/training-powerpoint.asp

That being said, if it is for a class presentation, or if you are
interested in different slides than the tutorial teaches, I definitely
reccomend a reader, or someone with a good eye for color and placement
to make your presentation as interesting as possible.

Cindy

On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> How does Jaws version 11 work with Power Point slides?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Serena
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Jan 28 02:31:41 2011
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:31:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with Dazy player
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=bZDQ+r_6hMnq10avGTQ7EuzGfvrCvepRyMwwT@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinR7oxbtO0Jmux3jaNFPSzxmetO8h3aoe0=880F@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=bZDQ+r_6hMnq10avGTQ7EuzGfvrCvepRyMwwT@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin=-vknRuAUHkVJB=mpP6PpWkRE1KbneawEboRw@mail.gmail.com>

It is the Victor Reader. I can't get the player to go back and repeat
something on a CD. I need to know how to do this, so I can answer the
questions on my study guides for the class. Blessings, Joshua

On 1/27/11, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
> Josh,
> It all depends upon what player you're using. If you told me the
> specific type of player, maybe I could help.
> Patrick
>
> On 1/27/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Hi, I'm Joshua Lester. Some of you, I've met at the convention, last
>> year. Some of you, i don't know. I just joined the NABS list today,
>> because I'm a college student. I've been blind since birth. I've known
>> Braille, and used it all of my life. Because of this, I've had a
>> distaste for audiobooks. I'd rather have them in Braille. I have had
>> trouble in college classes, because they don't have any of the books
>> in Braille. The Dazy player has become a problem. To my knowledge,
>> there is no way to pause the player, and go back so it will repeat the
>> last line. How do I get the Dazy player to go back? If there's no way,
>> are there any college textbooks on www.bookshare.org? I'm a member of
>> Bookshare. Thanks for your help. Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From brownbears at mchsi.com  Fri Jan 28 02:35:54 2011
From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:35:54 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Wireless Keyboard
Message-ID: <59DA6C4AE19F4E01BF8065560EE6F84A@MIRANDA>


I received a wireless keyboard for Christmas and the function key does not work for JAWS commands. Does anyone else have a wireless keyboard and if so have you experienced this problem. The key does work for the commands that it is programmed to work with the F keys.

Miranda

From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Jan 28 02:36:14 2011
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:36:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Congressman Mica to Participate in NFB Blind Driver
 Challenge(tm)
Message-ID: <auto-000188405315@mailfront2.g2host.com>


>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>CONTACT:
>
>Chris Danielsen
>
>Director of Public Relations
>
>National Federation of the Blind
>
>(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
><mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>Congressman Mica to Participate in NFB Blind Driver Challenge™
>
>
>
>
>
>Washington, D.C. (January 27, 2011): The 
>National Federation of the Blind announced today 
>that Congressman John Mica, who represents 
>Florida’s Seventh Congressional District and 
>chairs the House Transportation and 
>Infrastructure Committee, will participate in 
>the demonstration of a vehicle that can be 
>driven by the blind.  The Congressman will be 
>present along with NFB officials and other 
>dignitaries when a modified Ford Escape equipped 
>with nonvisual technology allowing a blind 
>person to drive it independently is demonstrated 
>as part of pre-race activities leading up to the 
>Rolex 24 at the Daytona International Speedway 
>on January 29.  Congressman Mica will drive the 
>vehicle onto the course and present the keys to 
>a blind driver, who will then drive the road course alone.
>
>
>
>Congressman Mica said: “I am pleased to 
>participate in this historic moment, which will 
>shatter misconceptions about blind citizens and 
>show the world exciting new technologies that 
>will enhance the quality of living for many 
>Americans.  I have no doubt that this event is a 
>milestone in revolutionary technological change 
>that will dramatically improve transportation 
>and safety in the twenty-first century.”
>
>
>
>Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National 
>Federation of the Blind, said: “We are extremely 
>pleased that Congressman Mica is joining us for 
>this historic occasion.  It is fitting that the 
>Chairman of the House Transportation and 
>Infrastructure Committee will participate in the 
>demonstration of technology that will ultimately 
>benefit sighted drivers as well as the blind.”
>
>The National Federation of the Blind Jernigan 
>Institute­the only research and training 
>facility on blindness operated by the blind­has 
>challenged universities, technology developers, 
>and other interested innovators to establish NFB 
>Blind Driver Challenge™ (BDC) teams, in 
>collaboration with the NFB, to build interface 
>technologies that will empower blind people to 
>drive a car independently.  The purpose of the 
>NFB Blind Driver Challenge™ is to stimulate the 
>development of nonvisual interface 
>technology.  The Virginia Tech/TORC team, under 
>the direction of Dr. Dennis Hong, Director of 
>the Robotics and Mechanisms Laboratory at 
>Virginia Tech., is the only team that has 
>accepted the challenge.  The team is currently 
>working with the National Federation of the 
>Blind on the second-generation prototype vehicle 
>to integrate new and improved versions of the 
>first-generation nonvisual interface technologies into a Ford Escape.
>
>For more information about the NFB, please visit 
><http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org.  For our 
>digital news release about the Blind Driver 
>Challenge™ and the debut of the BDC car at the 
>Rolex 24, including audio and video clips for 
>television and radio, please visit 
><http://www.digitalnewsrelease.com/?q=NFB_CarKit>www.DigitalNewsRelease.com/?q=NFB_CarKit. 
>
>
>
>
>###
>
>
>
>
>About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>
>With more than 50,000 members, the National 
>Federation of the Blind is the largest and most 
>influential membership organization of blind 
>people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = 
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" 
>/>United States.  The NFB improves blind 
>people’s lives through advocacy, education, 
>research, technology, and programs encouraging 
>independence and self-confidence.  It is the 
>leading force in the blindness field today and 
>the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 
>2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of 
>the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
>and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>

From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 02:36:24 2011
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:36:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with Dazy player
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin=-vknRuAUHkVJB=mpP6PpWkRE1KbneawEboRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinR7oxbtO0Jmux3jaNFPSzxmetO8h3aoe0=880F@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=bZDQ+r_6hMnq10avGTQ7EuzGfvrCvepRyMwwT@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin=-vknRuAUHkVJB=mpP6PpWkRE1KbneawEboRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin7tgU4eA126-0M1J8WDWAisLQzvxjwM0x3L-KP@mail.gmail.com>

When the CD is playing, hit the rewind button. If you hold it down,
that should take you back. Otherwise, insert bookmarks where you want
to go, and then jump by bookmark.
Patrick

On 1/27/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> It is the Victor Reader. I can't get the player to go back and repeat
> something on a CD. I need to know how to do this, so I can answer the
> questions on my study guides for the class. Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 1/27/11, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> It all depends upon what player you're using. If you told me the
>> specific type of player, maybe I could help.
>> Patrick
>>
>> On 1/27/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> Hi, I'm Joshua Lester. Some of you, I've met at the convention, last
>>> year. Some of you, i don't know. I just joined the NABS list today,
>>> because I'm a college student. I've been blind since birth. I've known
>>> Braille, and used it all of my life. Because of this, I've had a
>>> distaste for audiobooks. I'd rather have them in Braille. I have had
>>> trouble in college classes, because they don't have any of the books
>>> in Braille. The Dazy player has become a problem. To my knowledge,
>>> there is no way to pause the player, and go back so it will repeat the
>>> last line. How do I get the Dazy player to go back? If there's no way,
>>> are there any college textbooks on www.bookshare.org? I'm a member of
>>> Bookshare. Thanks for your help. Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From aec732 at msn.com  Fri Jan 28 02:42:51 2011
From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:42:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Downloadable DAISY books about car racing and driving from
 RFB&D
Message-ID: <auto-000188405773@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Dear NFB Community:
On the eve of the exciting Blind Driver Challenge, perhaps you are 
thinking more about racing cars and driving. Whether you're heading 
to Daytona, you may be interested in reading some of these DAISY 
downloadable audio books from RFB&D!  Included is the biography of 
the first African American NASCAR driver. Remember, individual RFB&D 
memberships are free if you haven't yet signed up. 
<http://www.rfbd.org>www.rfbd.org
  Enjoy!
Annemarie Cooke


Adult Nonfiction
Book Number      JP328
Personal Name    DONOVAN, BRIAN
Title            HARD DRIVING : THE WENDELL SCOTT STORY : THE AMERICAN ODYSSEY
  OF NASCAR'S FIRST BLACK DRIVER
Published        STEERFORTH PRESS 2008
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             9781586421441
Adult Fiction
Book Number      HY666
Personal Name    McCrumb, Sharyn, 1948-
Title            St. Dale [sound recording] / Sharyn McCrumb.
Published        Kensington Books [2006], c2005
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             0758207778
ISBN             9780758207777
Summary          The Dale Ernhardt Memorial Pilgrimage is the last trip Judge
  Bekasu Holifield would have chosen for her vacation. but this year it's her
  sister Justine's turn to make their plans, and soon Bekasu's 
boarding a silver
  cruise bus for a tour of Southern stock car speed ways with Justine, their
  cousin Cayle, and a group of strangers -- all of whose lives have 
somehow been
  touched by the legendary racer they never met.
Subject (Name)   Earnhardt, Dale, 1951-2001 -- Influence -- Fiction.
Subject          Fans (Persons) -- Fiction.
Subject          Stock car drivers -- Fiction.
Subject          Stock car racing -- Fiction.
Juvenile Fiction
Book Number      JZ064
Personal Name    Wight, Eric
Title            Frankie Pickle and the Pine Run 3000 / Eric Wight
Published        Simon & Schuster Books For Young Readers 2010
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             1416964851
ISBN             9781416964858
Grade/Level      [Grades 1-5]
Summary          Fourth-grader Frankie Piccolini's vivid imagination does not
  help him advance in rank with the rest of his Possum Scout troop, but winning
  the Pine Run 3000 model car race would give him the points he needs.
Subject          Racing -- Juvenile fiction
Book Number      HP287
Personal Name    Peck, Richard, 1934-
Title            Here lies the librarian [sound recording] / Richard Peck.
Published        Dial Books c2006
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             0803730802
ISBN             9780803730809
Grade/Level      [Grades 5-11].
Summary          Fourteen-year-old Eleanor "Peewee" McGrath, a tomboy and
  automobile enthusiast, discovers new possibilities for her future after the
  1914 arrival in her small Indiana town of four young librarians.
Subject          American fiction -- 20th century.
Subject          Automobiles -- Juvenile fiction.
Subject          Automobile racing -- Juvenile fiction.
Book Number      JX109
Personal Name    Weaver, Will.
Title            Saturday night dirt [sound recording] / by Will Weaver.
Edition          1st Square 1st ed.
Published        Square Fish 2009, c2008
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             9780312561314
ISBN             0312561318
Grade/Level      [Grades 7-12].
Summary          In a small town in northern Minnesota, the much-anticipated
  Saturday night dirt-track race at the old-fashioned, barely viable Headwaters
  Speedway becomes, in many ways, an important life-changing event for all the
  participants on and off the track.
Subject          Automobile racing -- Juvenile fiction.
Subject          Stock car racing -- Juvenile fiction.
Juvenile Nonfiction
Book Number      JR954
Personal Name    Kulling, Monica.
Title            Eat my dust! [sound recording] : Henry Ford's first race / by
  Monica Kulling ; illustrated by Richard Walz.
Edition          1st ed.
Published        Random House c2004
Phys. Descript.  1 sound disc :
ISBN             0375815104
ISBN             9780375815102
Series Title     Step into reading. Step 3
Series Title     Step into reading. Step 3 book.
Grade/Level      [Grades 1-3].
Summary          Relates the excitement caused by Henry Ford as he drove the
  "horseless carriage" he built, particularly when he decided to win a race to
  get money to build a new car that anyone could afford.
Subject (Name)   Ford, Henry, 1863-1947 -- Juvenile literature.
Subject          Automobile engineers -- United States -- Biography -- Juvenile
  literature.
Subject          Automobiles, Racing -- Juvenile literature.
Subject          Industrialists -- Juvenile literature.
Subject          Automobile industry and trade -- Biography -- Juvenile
  literature.

Book Number      HP917
Personal Name    Smith, Timothy C.
Title            Crashproof your kids [sound recording] : make your teen a
  safer, smarter driver / Timothy C. Smith.
Published        Simon & Schuster c2006
ISBN             0743277112
ISBN             9780743277112
Book Number      JP271
Personal Name    Crabb, Owen
Title            Drive right / Owen Crabb, Randall R. Thiel, Frederik R.
  Mottola, Elizabeth A. Weaver
Edition          11th ed
Published        Pearson 2010
Grade/Level      Grades 10-12
ISBN             0133612600
ISBN             9780133612608
Book Number      HR668
Personal Name    Peli, Eli.
Title            Driving with confidence [sound recording] : a practical guide
  to driving with low vision / Eli Peli, Doron Peli.
Published        World Scientific c2002
ISBN             9810247044
Book Number      HM227
Title            License to drive [sound recording] / ASD.
Edition          2nd ed.
Published        Thomson/Delmar Learning c2007
ISBN             1401879780
Book Number      HJ088
Title            Responsible driving [sound recording] / [consulting authors,
  John W. Palmer ... et al.].
Published        McGraw-Hill/Glencoe c2006
Grade/Level      Grades 9-12.
ISBN             0078678145
Book Number      HY165
Personal Name    Kimball, Richard S.
Title            Things to know about cars and driving [sound recording] / by
  Richard S. Kimball.
Published        J. Weston Walch c1998
Grade/Level      Grades 9-12. RL: 4.
ISBN             0825138280
ISBN             9780825138287


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 02:51:10 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:51:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
In-Reply-To: <53B77B3E780F464CAAAA6BCB6351EB3F@SerenaPC>
References: <AANLkTincwJP88214LDMFKY7M36MFwg+LQdwfj=WR0A0i@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B77B3E780F464CAAAA6BCB6351EB3F@SerenaPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik7H4KfVtvZeC0xOSS8evN9iokePqZQOueFT4oG@mail.gmail.com>

The link to the tutorial i put in the last message is a tutorial for
jaws and powerpoint with instructions for word 2003 and 2007, so it
should be in that.

Cindy

On 1/27/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi Cindy and all,
>
> Actually, I have Word 2003.  Can I still export the power point slides to
> Word?  All I want to do is read class notes.
>
> Serena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Bennett
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
>
> It depends what you intend to do. If you just intend to read a
> powerpoint with class notes, I find it more efficient to export the
> slides to Microsoft Word. To do this, assuming you have office 2007,
> Press alt f, u, and click on "create handouts in Microsoft Office
> word." You can then tab over a couple of times, and choose how you
> want the slides to appear. Since I don't need pictures, or space to
> handwrite, i prefer ""outline only." Press enter, and a document will
> open with all of the information bulletted.
>
> If you are interested in creating a PowerPoint to present, I found
> that this URL has a great tutorial.
>
> http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/training-powerpoint.asp
>
> That being said, if it is for a class presentation, or if you are
> interested in different slides than the tutorial teaches, I definitely
> reccomend a reader, or someone with a good eye for color and placement
> to make your presentation as interesting as possible.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> How does Jaws version 11 work with Power Point slides?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Serena
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
> n.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 03:35:46 2011
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 22:35:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik7H4KfVtvZeC0xOSS8evN9iokePqZQOueFT4oG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincwJP88214LDMFKY7M36MFwg+LQdwfj=WR0A0i@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B77B3E780F464CAAAA6BCB6351EB3F@SerenaPC>
	<AANLkTik7H4KfVtvZeC0xOSS8evN9iokePqZQOueFT4oG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinyWV-BdWMPqyeRLQOQL2-d7cYVADTixP8qtJJ+@mail.gmail.com>

A quick tip: If nothing else works, send the powerpoint files to
yourself as an attachment via e-mail. Then, instead of downloading,
selest 'View as HTML' (I know this is available in GMail, but I don't
know about other clients). By viewing as HTML, you get a web view in
text of the slides. To save, you can then just copy and paste into
Word and save it as a regular file. Thanks for the tip about exporting
files, though; I didn't know about that!

On 1/27/11, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The link to the tutorial i put in the last message is a tutorial for
> jaws and powerpoint with instructions for word 2003 and 2007, so it
> should be in that.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/27/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hi Cindy and all,
>>
>> Actually, I have Word 2003.  Can I still export the power point slides to
>> Word?  All I want to do is read class notes.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Cindy Bennett
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
>>
>> It depends what you intend to do. If you just intend to read a
>> powerpoint with class notes, I find it more efficient to export the
>> slides to Microsoft Word. To do this, assuming you have office 2007,
>> Press alt f, u, and click on "create handouts in Microsoft Office
>> word." You can then tab over a couple of times, and choose how you
>> want the slides to appear. Since I don't need pictures, or space to
>> handwrite, i prefer ""outline only." Press enter, and a document will
>> open with all of the information bulletted.
>>
>> If you are interested in creating a PowerPoint to present, I found
>> that this URL has a great tutorial.
>>
>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/training-powerpoint.asp
>>
>> That being said, if it is for a class presentation, or if you are
>> interested in different slides than the tutorial teaches, I definitely
>> reccomend a reader, or someone with a good eye for color and placement
>> to make your presentation as interesting as possible.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How does Jaws version 11 work with Power Point slides?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com


From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Fri Jan 28 04:59:14 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:59:14 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] blind drive challenge
Message-ID: <0syt1g00A2PutTY05szFod@netzero.net>

Oh, me too! I'm looking forward for that. will it be streamed?

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Albert Yoo <albert.k.yoo at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:10:15 -0500
>Subject: [nabs-l] blind drive challenge

>David Andrews, will the blind driver car challenge be streamed 
through the
>nfb website? Will it start at 8 A.M.? I am looking forward to the 
first time
>event. Albert
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
5369%40netzero.net



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 05:06:52 2011
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 00:06:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=2nUJSoUqU4L=WYYeKa=iwRXW1eHP9qB-5G0J_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8FF687EB29A6AD4B8D020BAC05C85CC2244F4502A4@KOCL385270EXCH.msp.tech.int.digex.com>
	<1509545543.1798835.1296173222807.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
	<AANLkTi=2nUJSoUqU4L=WYYeKa=iwRXW1eHP9qB-5G0J_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=e628+m__zdhYquvk0DU-9ydWxYm2CZYUnrAM-@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!
If you go to
http://www.blindinc.org
you can download the audio CD, learn about the requirements, etc. I'm
a grad from there, and would be more than willing to take some time to
speak to you by phone to answer questions for you if you'd like. If
interested, and I'd even be able to put the mp3 package together for
you of all the audio from their site if you'd like, email me off list
and we can exchange contact details.
>From David

On 1/27/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> What was that cd that was on every table at the karaoke event at the
> Dallas, (NFB convention?) That might have been the one that's being
> discussed on this list. Hope this helps. Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 1/27/11, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>> hello tara,
>>
>> as for the cd that you have mentioned here on the list yes, there was a cd
>> that they put out but, if you contacted them they might have it for you...
>> but, there's a audio brochure that is done and is available on their web
>> site at www.blindinc..org
>> and, that's where you will find it!
>>
>> i hope this helps you out. take care anhd, i will talk to you soon.
>>
>>
>> hugs,
>> from amy	
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tara Annis <TAnnis at afb.net>
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:09:38 -0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Another blind inc. question
>>
>> Blind Inc. used to give out a CD that explained  about their program; and
>> on
>> this CD was a list of skills their staff thought a blind person should
>> master.  It may have been  specific graduation requirements, but I am not
>> sure, since it was fairly  extensive.  It had all areas of the
>> curriculum,
>> such as technology, cooking, cleaning, and travel.  I have seen similar
>> lists from other blindness agencies, but they  list   less challenging
>> activities.
>> I want my consumers to have a positive outlook on life, and strive for
>> the
>> most independence, so I would like to find this list online.  Do any of
>> you
>> know if it is on  the blind inc web site?  If not, I will l call the
>> agency
>> and see if I can get the CD, but I thought I  would try and save time to
>> find it on the Internet.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com
>


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 13:51:13 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:51:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinyWV-BdWMPqyeRLQOQL2-d7cYVADTixP8qtJJ+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTincwJP88214LDMFKY7M36MFwg+LQdwfj=WR0A0i@mail.gmail.com><53B77B3E780F464CAAAA6BCB6351EB3F@SerenaPC><AANLkTik7H4KfVtvZeC0xOSS8evN9iokePqZQOueFT4oG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinyWV-BdWMPqyeRLQOQL2-d7cYVADTixP8qtJJ+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4B4D550732B4D6A9B043EFA16A7E722@Rufus>

That's cumbersome.  Use F6, go to Outline and Save As RTF.

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S.
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:36 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point

A quick tip: If nothing else works, send the powerpoint files to
yourself as an attachment via e-mail. Then, instead of downloading,
selest 'View as HTML' (I know this is available in GMail, but I don't
know about other clients). By viewing as HTML, you get a web view in
text of the slides. To save, you can then just copy and paste into
Word and save it as a regular file. Thanks for the tip about exporting
files, though; I didn't know about that!

On 1/27/11, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The link to the tutorial i put in the last message is a tutorial for
> jaws and powerpoint with instructions for word 2003 and 2007, so it
> should be in that.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 1/27/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hi Cindy and all,
>>
>> Actually, I have Word 2003.  Can I still export the power 
point slides to
>> Word?  All I want to do is read class notes.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Cindy Bennett
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
>>
>> It depends what you intend to do. If you just intend to read a
>> powerpoint with class notes, I find it more efficient to export the
>> slides to Microsoft Word. To do this, assuming you have office 2007,
>> Press alt f, u, and click on "create handouts in Microsoft Office
>> word." You can then tab over a couple of times, and choose how you
>> want the slides to appear. Since I don't need pictures, or space to
>> handwrite, i prefer ""outline only." Press enter, and a document will
>> open with all of the information bulletted.
>>
>> If you are interested in creating a PowerPoint to present, I found
>> that this URL has a great tutorial.
>>
>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/training-powerpoint.asp
>>
>> That being said, if it is for a class presentation, or if you are
>> interested in different slides than the tutorial teaches, I 
definitely
>> reccomend a reader, or someone with a good eye for color and 
placement
>> to make your presentation as interesting as possible.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How does Jaws version 11 work with Power Point slides?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%
40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu
cco%40verizo
>> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%
40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cindy Bennett
> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt
ykat2%40gmail.com
>


-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
%40gmail.com



From albert.k.yoo at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 14:07:37 2011
From: albert.k.yoo at gmail.com (Albert Yoo)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:07:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] blind drive challenge
In-Reply-To: <0syt1g00A2PutTY05szFod@netzero.net>
References: <0syt1g00A2PutTY05szFod@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=AOwuD0FHbt4q6c3nHDMt_b8UBWkrCRg9DjHWa@mail.gmail.com>

 I don't know that is why I was asking.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:59 PM, humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>wrote:

> Oh, me too! I'm looking forward for that. will it be streamed?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Albert Yoo <albert.k.yoo at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
>> Date sent: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:10:15 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] blind drive challenge
>>
>
>  David Andrews, will the blind driver car challenge be streamed
>>
> through the
>
>> nfb website? Will it start at 8 A.M.? I am looking forward to the
>>
> first time
>
>> event. Albert
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>
> for nabs-l:
>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/humbertoa
>>
> 5369%40netzero.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albert.k.yoo%40gmail.com
>

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Jan 28 15:14:37 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:14:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
Message-ID: <19894893.1296227678167.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi Serena,
I haven't learned or figured out power point either.
But two basic commands are these.
To create a new slide press control M. Tpo see the slide show press f 5.
If you just want to read the power point for notes like from class, save it as text or you can read it easily in the slide show format and you get to that mode with f 5.
If you have no or unreliable vision i recommend haviga sighted person describe your slide background and check formating because jaws does not describe how the background looks.
Ashley
-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 28, 2011 8:51 AM
>To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
>
>That's cumbersome.  Use F6, go to Outline and Save As RTF.
>
>Joe
>
>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S.
>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:36 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
>
>A quick tip: If nothing else works, send the powerpoint files to
>yourself as an attachment via e-mail. Then, instead of downloading,
>selest 'View as HTML' (I know this is available in GMail, but I don't
>know about other clients). By viewing as HTML, you get a web view in
>text of the slides. To save, you can then just copy and paste into
>Word and save it as a regular file. Thanks for the tip about exporting
>files, though; I didn't know about that!
>
>On 1/27/11, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The link to the tutorial i put in the last message is a tutorial for
>> jaws and powerpoint with instructions for word 2003 and 2007, so it
>> should be in that.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 1/27/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Cindy and all,
>>>
>>> Actually, I have Word 2003.  Can I still export the power 
>point slides to
>>> Word?  All I want to do is read class notes.
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Cindy Bennett
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:47 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jaws 11 and Power Point
>>>
>>> It depends what you intend to do. If you just intend to read a
>>> powerpoint with class notes, I find it more efficient to export the
>>> slides to Microsoft Word. To do this, assuming you have office 2007,
>>> Press alt f, u, and click on "create handouts in Microsoft Office
>>> word." You can then tab over a couple of times, and choose how you
>>> want the slides to appear. Since I don't need pictures, or space to
>>> handwrite, i prefer ""outline only." Press enter, and a document will
>>> open with all of the information bulletted.
>>>
>>> If you are interested in creating a PowerPoint to present, I found
>>> that this URL has a great tutorial.
>>>
>>> http://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/training-powerpoint.asp
>>>
>>> That being said, if it is for a class presentation, or if you are
>>> interested in different slides than the tutorial teaches, I 
>definitely
>>> reccomend a reader, or someone with a good eye for color and 
>placement
>>> to make your presentation as interesting as possible.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> On 1/26/11, Serena Cucco <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How does Jaws version 11 work with Power Point slides?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Serena
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>> 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%
>40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cindy Bennett
>>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>>>
>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>> 828.989.5383
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu
>cco%40verizo
>>> n.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%
>40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cindy Bennett
>> uNC Wilmington Psychology major
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekitt
>ykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>-- 
>~Jewel
>Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
>%40gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 15:50:17 2011
From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:50:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Summer Law program
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Jv=G4quPwDvOAsDs92oSzbvhQpOU1PsdKRC6F@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, saw this and thought to pass it on.

TRIALS - A partnership of NYU School of Law, Harvard Law School, and
the Advantage Testing Foundation - Training and Recruitment Initiative
for Admission
to Leading Law Schools

http://trials.atfoundation.org/index

Alex


From lindsay3.14 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 18:37:20 2011
From: lindsay3.14 at gmail.com (Lindsay Yazzolino)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:37:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Kindle software accessibility
Message-ID: <AANLkTimZ0a-e9Nnfjsn50U0jsPiS8vv1CTe8n5riHjai@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I apologize in advance for the cross-posting, but I recently
downloaded the Kindle software for Windows with the accessibility
plugin, and am wondering if anyone here has had any experience using
it. In the short time that I've spent playing with it, I have found
navigation commands to be somewhat cumbersome and inefficient. For
example, each time I jump between sentences, I must enter the "read"
command in order for the software to actually speak what is under the
cursor. Also, I haven't found any commands for quickly jumping to a
specific chapter, section, etc., and find the overall interface to be
somewhat confining as far as navigation is concerned. I need to obtain
several books for classes which are only available in Kindle and
Audible.com formats, and though Kindle is certainly the least
expensive of the two, I'm not willing to spend more money on Kindle
books  if the software is not fully accessible. I do not yet have an
audible.com account, but know a number of blind people who use the
service seemingly without problem. Am I correct in my assessment of
Kindle accessibility, or is there anything I'm missing? Thanks in
advance for any input.

Lindsay


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 20:00:04 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:00:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPod Help
Message-ID: <E7A2F5E313FC4D08BE1B64CA853956A0@Rufus>

Hello,

I finally took the plunge and got an iPod.  The registration process on
iTunes left something to be desired.  It seems iTunes is fairly accessible
with JAWS 12, so is there a specific reason why I would want to buy
something like J-Tunes?  I tried using J-Tunes during the registration
process but found it more annoying.  At any rate, can someone direct me to a
good resource to get started?  I've read and taken notes from the Apple Vis
website, but I need a dummy's Getting Started resource that can tell me
something about the general screen layout, etc.  The iPod is a 4th Gen
running the latest software, if that's of any importance.

Thanks all,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 20:09:01 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:09:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] washington seminar roommate
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=tFaaCGjNDAQ4vFvs0LHBe6YgrzCO_22qc1gyS@mail.gmail.com>

I know that everyone is probably more than prepared for Washington
Seminar, but I wanted to extend one final offer. We are looking for a
4th female roommate, have a room Sunday through Tuesday nights, and
are open to someone staying during only some of those nights if
necessary. Please contact me off list if you are interested. Thanks.

-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From jbahm at pcdesk.net  Sat Jan 29 01:24:03 2011
From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 18:24:03 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with Dazy player
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin=-vknRuAUHkVJB=mpP6PpWkRE1KbneawEboRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinR7oxbtO0Jmux3jaNFPSzxmetO8h3aoe0=880F@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=bZDQ+r_6hMnq10avGTQ7EuzGfvrCvepRyMwwT@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin=-vknRuAUHkVJB=mpP6PpWkRE1KbneawEboRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D436C33.4050407@pcdesk.net>

Joshua,
Pressing the play button on the Victor reader pauses the currently
playing item if you have something playing. To go back by a few seconds,
press and hold the rewind button. You can also use page and/or heading
navigation features if the book you are currently reading supports them.
Joe


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Jan 29 03:59:40 2011
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 21:59:40 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Compressed Video
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=e_0mhYdhchm7QVD=-Um=LWQ3dN=NKnqgeuJiS@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, it's Joshua Lester. I just wanted to know how many of you on this
list have taken, or are taking a compressed video class in college.
I'm in a Sociology class, that the teacher is doing compressed video.
It's not as bad as I thought it would be. I wonder if any of you have
taken a CV, class or are taking one like that now. Thanks, Joshua


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Jan 29 04:23:14 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:23:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Compressed Video
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=e_0mhYdhchm7QVD=-Um=LWQ3dN=NKnqgeuJiS@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=e_0mhYdhchm7QVD=-Um=LWQ3dN=NKnqgeuJiS@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <659F61CBAD084C7CB01D054578D51EAC@OwnerPC>

Is that part of an online class?
I suppose if the videos are pretty verbal, you'll be fine. If there's 
subtitles or too many moments where its quiet, you may need to sit with a 
reader so they can explain what you don't pick up. I haven't done this sort 
of course.
Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Compressed Video

Hi, it's Joshua Lester. I just wanted to know how many of you on this
list have taken, or are taking a compressed video class in college.
I'm in a Sociology class, that the teacher is doing compressed video.
It's not as bad as I thought it would be. I wonder if any of you have
taken a CV, class or are taking one like that now. Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From humbertoa5369 at netzero.net  Sat Jan 29 04:31:28 2011
From: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net (humberto)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:31:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] applying for the independence 2011 program
Message-ID: <1GXQ1g00N2PutTY05GXRUP@netzero.net>

Hello everyone:

Does anyone know where or how can I apply for the Blind 
Industries and Services of Maryland Independence 2011 supper 
program? As you know, I am in need of learning more blindness 
skills and I would like to apply to the program. Is there 
anything I need?

I looked online, but there's no application or such, that I can 
find in order to apply.
Also, what requirements are needed in order to be qualified? Are 
there any deadlines for this program?
Any comments are welcome.
Thanks, humberto


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Jan 29 04:33:09 2011
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 22:33:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Compressed Video
In-Reply-To: <659F61CBAD084C7CB01D054578D51EAC@OwnerPC>
References: <AANLkTi=e_0mhYdhchm7QVD=-Um=LWQ3dN=NKnqgeuJiS@mail.gmail.com>
	<659F61CBAD084C7CB01D054578D51EAC@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=8bfVhJmOkCLTU7MY9jjcYEqpZ_mTVvEAXLHyh@mail.gmail.com>

No, the teacher is on another campus. She is has a microphone plugged
into some sort of computer monitor. She is able to see us from her
screen, and the students on campus at my college see her from their
screen. It's like the way news reporters communicate with each other
on tv. If you want to say something, you push a button on a remote,
and the machine get's the teacher's attention, so you can tell her
what you want to say to the class. The two classes, (the one where
she's teaching in person, and our class,) are connected. They can see
us, and we can see them. That's the best way I can explain it.
Blessings, Joshua

On 1/28/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Is that part of an online class?
> I suppose if the videos are pretty verbal, you'll be fine. If there's
> subtitles or too many moments where its quiet, you may need to sit with a
> reader so they can explain what you don't pick up. I haven't done this sort
> of course.
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:59 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Compressed Video
>
> Hi, it's Joshua Lester. I just wanted to know how many of you on this
> list have taken, or are taking a compressed video class in college.
> I'm in a Sociology class, that the teacher is doing compressed video.
> It's not as bad as I thought it would be. I wonder if any of you have
> taken a CV, class or are taking one like that now. Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From iperrault at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 29 11:31:36 2011
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 06:31:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Driver Challenge
Message-ID: <SNT111-DS255E43FF7F795447302303BFE00@phx.gbl>

Hi
How exactly do you log on for the driver challenge? I tried and JAWS kept saying wrong link, so I ended up missing the rally last night. I certainly don't want to miss the demonstration itself!
Ian

From aadkins7 at verizon.net  Sat Jan 29 12:02:21 2011
From: aadkins7 at verizon.net (Anita Adkins)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 07:02:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] applying for the independence 2011 program
In-Reply-To: <1GXQ1g00N2PutTY05GXRUP@netzero.net>
References: <1GXQ1g00N2PutTY05GXRUP@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <1C61FDACC9BD47A88E44FCAD64F7CB32@AnitaAdkinsPC>

Hello,

You could call BISM at 1-888-322-4567 and speak with Amy Phelps about 
requirements and obtaining an application. Anita
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "humberto" <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbNet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:31 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] applying for the independence 2011 program


> Hello everyone:
>
> Does anyone know where or how can I apply for the Blind Industries and 
> Services of Maryland Independence 2011 supper program? As you know, I am 
> in need of learning more blindness skills and I would like to apply to the 
> program. Is there anything I need?
>
> I looked online, but there's no application or such, that I can find in 
> order to apply.
> Also, what requirements are needed in order to be qualified? Are there any 
> deadlines for this program?
> Any comments are welcome.
> Thanks, humberto
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aadkins7%40verizon.net 



From aphelps at bism.org  Sat Jan 29 17:11:10 2011
From: aphelps at bism.org (aphelps at bism.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:11:10 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] applying for the independence 2011 program
In-Reply-To: <1GXQ1g00N2PutTY05GXRUP@netzero.net>
References: <1GXQ1g00N2PutTY05GXRUP@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <1961861792-1296321074-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1796983448-@bda953.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hello Humberto, please email me off line aphelps at bism.org and I will get you the. Information. Have a great day!  
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: humberto <humbertoa5369 at netzero.net>
Sender: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 20:31:28 
To: <nabs-l at nfbNet.org>
Reply-To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] applying for the independence 2011 program

Hello everyone:

Does anyone know where or how can I apply for the Blind 
Industries and Services of Maryland Independence 2011 supper 
program? As you know, I am in need of learning more blindness 
skills and I would like to apply to the program. Is there 
anything I need?

I looked online, but there's no application or such, that I can 
find in order to apply.
Also, what requirements are needed in order to be qualified? Are 
there any deadlines for this program?
Any comments are welcome.
Thanks, humberto

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org

From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Jan 29 22:01:13 2011
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:01:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Oabs] Online Medical Transcription Training?
Message-ID: <89CD3316907C416CA8AAEDB1BE684A4C@Rufus>

-----Original Message-----
From: oabs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:oabs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Everett Gavel
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 4:11 PM
To: jobs at nfbnet.org
Cc: oabs at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Oabs] Online Medical Transcription Training?

Hi all,

I know there are some specific, 'for the blind,' Medical Transcription
training programs out there.  But in doing a search, there are many more
universities and colleges offering such training, too.  I'm interested to
know if anyone's taken course like these through universities?  If so, was
it accessible?  Did it use Blackboard, or some other training platform?
What was your experience, etc.?  Maybe someone could forward this to the
Nabs-l list, as well?  I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's taken
such courses.  Please e-mail me at: everett at everettgavel.com.  Thanks.

Strive On!
Everett


_______________________________________________
Oabs mailing list
Oabs at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/oabs_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Oabs:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/oabs_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com



From treyman19 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 29 22:33:04 2011
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:33:04 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote interests
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=g9bj4jsy9pVk9MNu6x00K8-B=0QE6=R7NxTgO@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I am Roosevelt Bradley.  I was wondering if there is anyone that is
interested in a Human Ware BrailleNote it is a Notae taker pda device.
 It runs windows ce and Key soft 7.5  it has a 18 cell braille
display.  It has a SD Card slot, Compact Flash card slot, two usb
ports, and a eithernet port, also built in bluetooth and you can use
wireless on this BrailleNote.  for more information  Please contact me
by via email or phone

treyman19 at gmail.com

219-577-2367



-- 
Roosevelt Bradley


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Sun Jan 30 03:55:15 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 20:55:15 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Sign up for a free Bookshare membership and enter the
 drawing for an iPod Touch!
In-Reply-To: <D862367895B192479C33F05BA866425102DC8DB005@VA3DIAXVS451.RED001.local>
References: <D862367895B192479C33F05BA866425102DC8DB005@VA3DIAXVS451.RED001.local>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikbDPv6SgnCefOXuGSTUpZxKM8qwgPjAc4oA0jC@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Allison Hilliker <AllisonH at benetech.org>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 13:26:41 -0800
Subject: Sign up for a free Bookshare membership and enter the drawing
for an iPod Touch!
To: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com>
Cc: Cherie Miller <cheriem at benetech.org>, "hillikera at gmail.com"
<hillikera at gmail.com>


Sign up for a free Bookshare membership and enter the drawing for an iPod Touch!

Dear Washington Seminar Attendees:

Haven't signed up yet for your free Bookshare membership? Allison
Hilliker from Bookshare will be on hand on Monday, January 31, at a
table near the Colombia room where the NABS seminar will be taking
place. She will answer all your Bookshare questions and start the
paperwork for your own membership. The table will be open from 8:00am
to 4:30pm, and again for an hour right after the conclusion of the NFB
gathering in meeting.  Having a Bookshare membership helps you find
the books you need for classes and pleasure reading. Read freely and
independently  with Bookshare!
All those who sign up with Allison will have their names entered in a
drawing at the end of the day on Monday for a free, state-of-the-art
iPod Touch! The iPod Touch will support the new "Read2Go" application
for reading Bookshare books - coming soon to the iTunes App Store.

For more information about "Read2Go" - visit
http://www.bookshare.org/_/aboutUs/2011/01/read2go

Sincerely,

The Bookshare Team

If you have questions about Bookshare at the Washington Seminar,
please contact Allison Hilliker
Phone: (623) 523-4854
E-mail: allison.h at bookshare.org



-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Sun Jan 30 17:44:01 2011
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 10:44:01 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS First-Timer Breakfast Tomorrow!
Message-ID: <AANLkTikh9CJwYBNXCm4zoc=doz2uoZqD5i4Bp-RybmW+@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Is this your first Washington Seminar or your first NABS meeting? Do
you have students in your affiliate who are first-time Washington
Seminar attendees? If so, please join us at our NABS first-timer
breakfast just before the NABS student seminar tomorrow. We will be
meeting at Starbucks at 7:30 a.m. until 8:30 a.m. Members of the NABS
board will be on hand to answer any questions you may have. We look
forward to meeting you!

Arielle

-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From troubleclark at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 01:20:20 2011
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:20:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>

I really want to learn how to use Excel better with JAWS. I know the
basics but I am looking for a course with JAWS commands for Excel
2007. If anyone has any information or suggestions on where I should
go - I would appreciate it. I'd be interested in hearing how others
learned Excel.

I looked on bookshare and they seem to have some good introductory
books but not with JAWS commands.

Thanks in advance,

Nathan Clark


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 01:23:41 2011
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:23:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
References: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93256695D4854822B248BA9B91D873C5@hometwxakonvzn>

Nathan, I'm with you on that one. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:20 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel


>I really want to learn how to use Excel better with JAWS. I know the
> basics but I am looking for a course with JAWS commands for Excel
> 2007. If anyone has any information or suggestions on where I should
> go - I would appreciate it. I'd be interested in hearing how others
> learned Excel.
>
> I looked on bookshare and they seem to have some good introductory
> books but not with JAWS commands.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nathan Clark
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 31 01:30:52 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:30:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69A1BF0CA79C42B498690BB30E275640@OwnerPC>

Hi Nathan,
Two suggestions.
First, National braille press has a book on keyboard commands and excell.
Second, Carroll center for the blind in Newton, Ma has online technology 
courses.
They cost some money but hope they're affordable.  Their site is 
www.carrolltech.org.
One class is on excell; I have not tried these options so can't say if its 
good but heard other good things about them.
I was going to get the NBP series on keyboard commands, but I have 2010 now 
not 2007.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nathan Clark
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel

I really want to learn how to use Excel better with JAWS. I know the
basics but I am looking for a course with JAWS commands for Excel
2007. If anyone has any information or suggestions on where I should
go - I would appreciate it. I'd be interested in hearing how others
learned Excel.

I looked on bookshare and they seem to have some good introductory
books but not with JAWS commands.

Thanks in advance,

Nathan Clark

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From kramc11 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 01:34:22 2011
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:34:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9EF9F91F5254DD2BB42A6CC93762C2E@SonyPC>

The Carroll Center in MA has an online course that is supposed to be good. I 
have never taken the class, so I can't speak from experience.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:20 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel


>I really want to learn how to use Excel better with JAWS. I know the
> basics but I am looking for a course with JAWS commands for Excel
> 2007. If anyone has any information or suggestions on where I should
> go - I would appreciate it. I'd be interested in hearing how others
> learned Excel.
>
> I looked on bookshare and they seem to have some good introductory
> books but not with JAWS commands.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nathan Clark
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 31 01:58:05 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:58:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
In-Reply-To: <93256695D4854822B248BA9B91D873C5@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
	<93256695D4854822B248BA9B91D873C5@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <046DCD17BF25438E9FF9D52F088DEC26@OwnerPC>

Also freedom scientific may have a tutorial to learn it.


-----Original Message----- 
From: RJ Sandefur
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:23 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question on learning excel

Nathan, I'm with you on that one. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:20 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel


>I really want to learn how to use Excel better with JAWS. I know the
> basics but I am looking for a course with JAWS commands for Excel
> 2007. If anyone has any information or suggestions on where I should
> go - I would appreciate it. I'd be interested in hearing how others
> learned Excel.
>
> I looked on bookshare and they seem to have some good introductory
> books but not with JAWS commands.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nathan Clark
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Jan 31 02:12:01 2011
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:12:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
In-Reply-To: <A9EF9F91F5254DD2BB42A6CC93762C2E@SonyPC>
References: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9EF9F91F5254DD2BB42A6CC93762C2E@SonyPC>
Message-ID: <21026509B55D4F3DA38B13B7344FA081@OwnerPC>

Hi,
If anyone takes the online class through Carroll tech, let me know how it 
goes.
I might call them and see if their classes address 2010 office suite or just 
2007 now.
One more option I though of is Hadley school for the blind.
That is a distance education school and classes are free.
Go to www.hadley.edu to learn more.
Here is the description of the excell course.
Microsoft Excel is one of the most popular computer programs in use today. 
If you are entering or reentering the workforce, creating and using 
spreadsheets is an asset. Excel helps not only with tasks concerning numbers 
and computation, but also with organizational tasks such as keeping contact 
information, maintaining an inventory and cataloging music. This course will 
help you use Excel to manage and compute real-world data.
Prerequisite: Basic math operations, fractions, decimals, percents; 
familiarity with PC and access technology; access to a computer with Excel 
software installed (Excel 95 or newer) and a word processor.
Course: BBS-111, Media: B, C, LP or OL, Lessons: 5


Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark J. Cadigan
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question on learning excel

The Carroll Center in MA has an online course that is supposed to be good. I
have never taken the class, so I can't speak from experience.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:20 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel


>I really want to learn how to use Excel better with JAWS. I know the
> basics but I am looking for a course with JAWS commands for Excel
> 2007. If anyone has any information or suggestions on where I should
> go - I would appreciate it. I'd be interested in hearing how others
> learned Excel.
>
> I looked on bookshare and they seem to have some good introductory
> books but not with JAWS commands.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Nathan Clark
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From latinanewschic at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 03:04:48 2011
From: latinanewschic at gmail.com (Martha Harris)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:04:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE
Message-ID: <AE07BB4D9BC540B7AECFF384C6D7CD77@MarthaPC>

Hi Everyone,
For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in Braille.

Thanks,
Martha

From jty727 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 03:57:26 2011
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:57:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
In-Reply-To: <21026509B55D4F3DA38B13B7344FA081@OwnerPC>
References: <AANLkTi=OQff=6u0pZ3fEsNmZyDh5jPqwO2M6VeTPxCZ_@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9EF9F91F5254DD2BB42A6CC93762C2E@SonyPC>
	<21026509B55D4F3DA38B13B7344FA081@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinztyM1x8xaYTcMeJ67DH-bqdg8S+gcqu5J4Z9a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

A few months ago when I was not sure how to use excel I did some
research and found the following site:
http://www.mycomputeraid.com/microsoft-software/excel/excel-hotkeys-shortcuts/

It gives some great pointers
Justin

On 1/30/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> If anyone takes the online class through Carroll tech, let me know how it
> goes.
> I might call them and see if their classes address 2010 office suite or just
> 2007 now.
> One more option I though of is Hadley school for the blind.
> That is a distance education school and classes are free.
> Go to www.hadley.edu to learn more.
> Here is the description of the excell course.
> Microsoft Excel is one of the most popular computer programs in use today.
> If you are entering or reentering the workforce, creating and using
> spreadsheets is an asset. Excel helps not only with tasks concerning numbers
> and computation, but also with organizational tasks such as keeping contact
> information, maintaining an inventory and cataloging music. This course will
> help you use Excel to manage and compute real-world data.
> Prerequisite: Basic math operations, fractions, decimals, percents;
> familiarity with PC and access technology; access to a computer with Excel
> software installed (Excel 95 or newer) and a word processor.
> Course: BBS-111, Media: B, C, LP or OL, Lessons: 5
>
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark J. Cadigan
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:34 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
>
> The Carroll Center in MA has an online course that is supposed to be good. I
> have never taken the class, so I can't speak from experience.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:20 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] question on learning excel
>
>
>>I really want to learn how to use Excel better with JAWS. I know the
>> basics but I am looking for a course with JAWS commands for Excel
>> 2007. If anyone has any information or suggestions on where I should
>> go - I would appreciate it. I'd be interested in hearing how others
>> learned Excel.
>>
>> I looked on bookshare and they seem to have some good introductory
>> books but not with JAWS commands.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 04:11:00 2011
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:11:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE
In-Reply-To: <AE07BB4D9BC540B7AECFF384C6D7CD77@MarthaPC>
Message-ID: <348694.95697.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice.  In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in planning for this exam.
Thank you.


--- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris <latinanewschic at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Martha Harris <latinanewschic at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM
> Hi Everyone,
> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did
> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think
> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in
> Braille.
> 
> Thanks,
> Martha
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
> 


      


From treyman19 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 07:30:16 2011
From: treyman19 at gmail.com (Trey Bradley)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 01:30:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote for sell
Message-ID: <AANLkTim33giy9uNSTEt+EEzH2hAAEd2yviL7R-_Xfu1r@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I am Roosevelt Bradley.  I have a BrailleNote M Power for sell.  I
have had for a short period of time.  I was wondering if there is
anyone interested.  I would let it go for $650  or for trade a
bluetooth Braille display or a Ipad with voice over on it.  It runs
Keysoft 7.5 on and it can be upgraded to Keysoft 8 and it runs windows
ce, bluetooth built in, usb ports two, eithernet port one, sd slot
one, conpact flash card slot one, daisy book reader, media center for
playing music and radio, radio built in, recorder built in, word
processor, internet, usb cord, data base manager, address book, 18
cell braille display, I can add in a compact flash card, lether case
with strapbraille keyboard, ac charger, games, scientific caculator,
planner, email, and file file manager, utilities, date and time, and
more.  Its a good device.  It is in good shape.  for more questions
email me at

treyman19 at gmail.com

219-577-2367



-- 
Roosevelt Bradley


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 13:54:54 2011
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 06:54:54 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] AIM 7.5 questions
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=TrhPu3bdQg4o+bj7XENaWWPaZgx804U0YiLF5@mail.gmail.com>

I can't seem to get my AIM executable file to do its thing.  I tried
opening what seemed like a good copy of AIM, but it says it's "not a
valid Win 32 application."  Win 32?  I have 64-bit Windows Vista, so I
don't know.  What sholuld I do?
Beth


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Mon Jan 31 17:15:42 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 12:15:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] survey - guide dogs
Message-ID: <06CFAB11-61CD-4246-8B1D-70224F69E89E@mac.com>

Hi all:
I'm currently doing a project with my high school Research group on guide dogs and we need some back ground data before we begin exploring options for my group's proposal project.

Please email me offline if you wish to take the survey.

Thanks,

Jorge


From liziswhatis at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 31 17:23:55 2011
From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:23:55 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Illinois Basic Skills Test Accommodations
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS1182FC310BC2C7FA3F1C68BAE20@phx.gbl>

Hi all,

 

I ask this on behalf of a friend: Has anybody been able to take the
computer-based version of the basic skill test and receive the use of screen
reading software as an accommodation on the test? Feel free to pass this on
to anyone who may be able to answer. Responses may be directed at me.

 

Thanks, and take care,

 

Liz

 

email: 

 <mailto:liziswhatis at hotmail.com> liziswhatis at hotmail.com 

Visit my LiveJournal: 

 <http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com/>
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 

Follow me on Twitter: 

http://twitter.com/lizbot 

 


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 19:06:36 2011
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:06:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE
In-Reply-To: <348694.95697.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <AE07BB4D9BC540B7AECFF384C6D7CD77@MarthaPC>
	<348694.95697.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimEg8XR2AsupoPDD+F1uHCEznaSG=uvOFHrjPZ=@mail.gmail.com>

You can email me off list as well. But one quick thing, braille/large
print supplements come with your voiced GRE.

Cindy

On 1/30/11, William ODonnell <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Please email me off-list so we can discuss this since I took the exam twice.
>  In addition, I would like to find out what measures you are taking in
> planning for this exam.
> Thank you.
>
>
> --- On Sun, 1/30/11, Martha Harris <latinanewschic at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Martha Harris <latinanewschic at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Sunday, January 30, 2011, 10:04 PM
>> Hi Everyone,
>> For anyone who has taken this exam, what accomodations did
>> you use. I prefer taking tests on the computer, but I think
>> it would be helpful to have the quantitative part in
>> Braille.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Martha
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
uNC Wilmington Psychology major

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Mon Jan 31 19:11:58 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:11:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] assistive technology training
Message-ID: <E0AD29FC-062E-4160-8E13-F262568CDD07@mac.com>

Hi all:
Just wondering,
how would you get certified to teach assistive technology?
Any college courses you need to take?
Or would you need to be certefied by each company: E.G., get seperate certifications from Freedom Scientific to teach JAWS, and from gMicro to teach Window Eyes, etc?

Thanks,

Jorge


From liziswhatis at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 31 19:20:08 2011
From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:20:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] An Invitation to Participate in a Sex Knowledge Survey
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS15CC62C41B2A90BE7F3AA7BAE20@phx.gbl>

Hi all,

 

I send the following on behalf of a colleague. See below.

 

Liz


We are conducting a study to develop the content of a test to determine the
level of knowledge that young adults who are blind or severely visually
disabled possess. Thus, with this e-mail message, you are being invited to
participate if you are between the ages of 18 and 20 and if you are blind or
severely visually impaired.  Please read the ramifications for participation
in the study which are described below. After reading the information, if
you wish to participate  in the study, please send Gaylen Kapperman an
e-e-mail indicating that you are willing to participate. Include your name,
age, whether you are male or female, and the approximate level of visual
disability that you have. Include  your mailing address and your telephone
number. If you agree to the stipulations as described below, indicate that
in your e-mail.  Upon receipt of your e-mail, Professor Kapperman will
forward your e-mail to one of his research assistants who will make contact
with you to set up a  date and time when you can be interviewed.  If you are
male, he will choose a male research assistant and if you are female, he
will choose a female research assistant. Upon completion of the interview,
we will send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation. Please
read the description of the research study below. 
And please forward this e-mail to anyone whom you know who meets the
requirements for participation and whom you think may be interested in being
included in the study. We are trying to find as many individuals to
participate as we can by "going viral" with this invitation.  Thus, you can
help us a lot by forwarding this on to others. 
 
Please read the following paragraphs carefully. 
With this e-mail message, we are requesting that you participate in a
research study. We want to develop a test over sex knowledge which blind and
visually impaired young adults can take. This is a rough draft. That is, we
are not certain whether the 131true/false statements on the test are written
properly. You can help us develop this test by taking it and giving us your
answers.  Your answers will be completely anonymous. That is, no one except
the researchers will know how you answered the statements. No one outside of
the research team will see your answers.  We will ask you to indicate
whether you are a  male or female , your age, and your visual acuity. We
will record all of that information including your name and address, but
please be assured that once we have analyzed the results, we intend to
delete  all of the names of the participants so no one in the future will be
able to tell who participated. 
 
The  interviewer will read each statement. Then, you are to  tell the
interviewer whether you think it is true or false.  We do not want you to
guess. Thus, if you do not know, we want you to indicate that to the
interviewer. Also, if  the interviewer  reads words that you do not
understand, we want you to  tell the interviewer those words.  When you are
done, we will  send you a ten-dollar bill as a token of our appreciation for
your willingness to  be interviewed. 
 
The purpose of this study is to develop the best test we can in order that
we can use it in the future with other visually disabled adolescents and
young adults. The problem is if the test is not very good, then we can't
trust the results. Thus, you can help us by taking the test as a trial run.
We will analyze all of the answers given by all of the  participants to help
us figure out which statements are good and which ones should be thrown out
or rewritten. 
 
We want you to understand that you are not forced to  participate in this
study. If you choose not to participate, that is okay. Nothing bad will
happen. If you start the  interview and then decide not to finish it, that
is okay too. We want you to know that if you finish the interview, then we
will give you a ten-dollar bill. If you decide not to  be interviewed or not
to finish the interview, then you will not receive the money.
 
If you have questions or concerns about this study, you are invited to
contact Gaylen Kapperman, the director of the study. He can be reached by
e-mail at gkapperman at niu.edu. Alternatively, you may reach him by telephone
at 815-753-8453 at Northern  Illinois University. 
 
Please be sure to read the following statement. 
By my responding to this invitation by sending Gaylen Kapperman an e-mail
indicating my willingness to participate, I attest to the fact that I have
read the statement above and that I understand the  ramifications of my
participation in the study.  
 
Thank you very  much.
Sincerely,
Gaylen Kapperman
Professor and Coordinator
Visual Disabilities Program
Department of Teaching and Learning
Northern Illinois University
DeKalb, IL 60115
815-753-8453
gkapperman at niu.edu
 



   
email: 

 <mailto:liziswhatis at hotmail.com> liziswhatis at hotmail.com 

Visit my LiveJournal: 

 <http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com/>
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 

Follow me on Twitter: 

http://twitter.com/lizbot 

 


From mbrianwooten at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 20:17:55 2011
From: mbrianwooten at gmail.com (Brian Wooten)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 14:17:55 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=PiOpwRjvUE0HdiOLZZqA5o_RiWNCkeq2gkhKb@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some
feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are
quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers,
interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc.

I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal
with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them.  Any
suggestions?

-- 
Brian


From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Mon Jan 31 20:20:53 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:20:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=PiOpwRjvUE0HdiOLZZqA5o_RiWNCkeq2gkhKb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=PiOpwRjvUE0HdiOLZZqA5o_RiWNCkeq2gkhKb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE@mac.com>

I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular Science field,
but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader.

That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them.

 


On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some
> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are
> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers,
> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc.
> 
> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal
> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them.  Any
> suggestions?
> 
> -- 
> Brian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40mac.com



From jorgeapaez at mac.com  Mon Jan 31 20:45:17 2011
From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:45:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?BDC_=AE_interview?=
Message-ID: <575A050E-0569-4393-A9A8-BFB7F2650D76@mac.com>

Hi all:
Just wondering if any of you participated in the Blind Driver Challenge Rally and launch last weekend.

If so, would you be willing to do an interview this Saturday for my technology show?


Please let me know.


If you'd rather not do it in audio,
we can also do it via email and I'll post the transcripts up on our blog.




Jorge


From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 20:47:59 2011
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:47:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] integration question
Message-ID: <AANLkTikKwBSgWFg3LFQZTUZGiGAS94sqJ8jCWEyBw0zY@mail.gmail.com>

Hii,

I’m taking AP Calculus and we’re doing the Rectangle Approximation
Method and Trapezoidal Rule for integration at the moment. I was
wondering if you guys have any suggestions or know of any programs to
attack this problem. My classmates have graphing calculators and my
teachers gave them a couple of programs to put in to their calculators
so they could figure out problems without drawing the rectangles and
trapezoids out by hand. It’s also a lot easier to figure out problems
that require really small intervals. I’m currently drawing rectangles
out on raised graph paper, but this takes an excessive amount of time
and is not really efficient. I have the Audio Graphing Calculator, but
I don’t think it supports the RAM. However, I don’t know all of AGC’s
capabilities, so maybe it does?
Also, we are doing sigma notation which looks extremely weird in
Braille. Is there anyway to write it correctly in Microsoft word using
Greek letters? Could the Braille note have a way to write this
notation as well?

Thanks so much for your help

Minh


-- 
Douglas Adams - "You live and learn. At any rate, you live."


From jamandgab at izoom.net  Mon Jan 31 23:05:16 2011
From: jamandgab at izoom.net (Melissa )
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:05:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs
In-Reply-To: <08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE@mac.com>
References: <AANLkTi=PiOpwRjvUE0HdiOLZZqA5o_RiWNCkeq2gkhKb@mail.gmail.com>
	<08173A7E-BD9D-4A46-A110-D1250897EEBE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <002201cbc19b$55c86840$015938c0$@izoom.net>

Good evening.  I can help, a little anyway.  I am a junior at the U of
Minnesota, majoring in nutrition and dietary science.  I have taken at least
6 chemistry courses, 2 biology courses, including micro, anatomy and
physiology which includes labs, and am currently in biochemistry.  Until
biochem, all of my labs were at a local community college, at which I was
the first blind person, and I graduated with honors.  So, that being said,
the first thing to do is ask them to find you a laboratory assistant who has
previously taken the course.  They can use work study to pay this person.
With this assistant, you will need to give them explicit instructions as to
what you want them to do, and they will perform the task for you.  For
example, if you want them to calibrate the spectrometer to a specific
setting, you instruct the to do so.  Then you would instruct them to prepare
the sample just so, then read you the results, which you are responsible for
recording and interpreting.  Having someone who has previously taken the
course as your lab assistant will help because they will know what
information is pertinent and what is not.
I would also suggest forming a close and snuggly relationship with your
professor and lab technician, who can be very valuable assets.
I am more than happy to be of any assistance that I can, I am a science
nerd.  Feel free to write me off list if you have further questions.  Please
though, take full advantage of this opportunity, I love it when the visually
impaired take courses that raise other's eyebrows.
Warmly,
Melissa
Melissa Riley
jamandgab at izoom.net
riley365 at umn.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jorge Paez
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:21 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dealing with Science Labs

I don't know the specifics because I've never been in this particular
Science field, but I'd say the most important thing is to ask for a reader.

That way, if anything comes up that you MUST know, you can always ask them.

 


On Jan 31, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Brian Wooten wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am taking Astronomy this semester and I would like to get some 
> feedback, pointers and suggestions on how to deal with labs which are 
> quite visual. For example, measuring with calipers and micrometers, 
> interpreting spectroscopes, using Planetarium software, etc.
> 
> I attend a small community college and they don't know how to deal 
> with blind students. I am not sure what to ask of them.  Any 
> suggestions?
> 
> --
> Brian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorgeapaez%40m
> ac.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jamandgab%40izoom.ne
t