[nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

Josh Gregory joshkart12 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 3 06:40:41 UTC 2011


I see...  still...  hey what about NVDA? That's a free screen 
reader.  Might not be as good as Jaws, but it's something...
Best,
Josh

sent from my Apex
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 02:35:17 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

Sometimes I guess they may not have enough money to pay for 
paper,
pens and such and are going to school on lones and grants.  Some 
has
issues with gas ETC.
It's a small two year college.  Comunity, close to my apartment 
than a
univercity would be.

On 7/3/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Just a thought: Cost should only matter if the school is having
 budget issues or something...  otherwise...  what do they do for
 students without disabilities?
 Best,
 Josh

 sent from my Apex
 Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 01:34:14 -0400
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

 This is what Freedomscientific website says.

 Multi-user options are available for JAWS Professional and
 Standard
 licenses, MAGic Professional licenses only, and all OpenBook
 licenses.
 They may be purchased
 in blocks of five seats in all cases.  In the US, please call
 1-800-444-4443 for pricing.  International customers, please
 contact
 your local distributor
 for pricing.
 Site License: Specifically designed for educational 
institutions,
 public libraries, and organizations whose sole purpose is to
 better
 the lives of the
 visually impaired.  The Site License may only be used at one
 designated
 location.

 District License: Also designed for educational institutions,
 public
 libraries, and organizations whose sole purpose is to better the
 lives
 of the visually
 impaired.  This license allows the institution to install the
 software
 at more than one facility.

 Enterprise License: Tailored to meet the needs of private
 businesses
 and government agencies.  The enterprise license may be 
installed
 in
 multiple locations,
 but may only be used on machines owned by the specified company
 or agency.

 So your school would have to get a District License.  My school
 allows
 me to put a demo on any and all of the computers I wish.  better
 than
 nothing but not as great as having a full version.
 What about using one of those thumb drive Jaws?
 I need to look online on how that will work.  I am going to take
 a
 computer class in the fall and need to figure out about putting
 jaws
 on a computer.  My schools says that they only allow up to $250
 per
 student to spend on stuff for school if they are unable to
 purches it
 themselves They did start to look in to getting my math and 
other
 books in braille until i told them how much it would cost.
 At least they thought about it!
 I too face simmular problems that these two are facing.  My
 college
 uses math labs on the web that is not totally exsessible to 
blind
 people.  I have to have all my math read to me and is difficult
 at
 times when I have to spend hours a week in the learning center 
as
 if I
 am taking a whole other class that I am not getting credit for.

 On 7/2/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
  If anyone can help me find a good deal on a Pac Mate, with a 20
 cell
  display, I'd appreciate it.
  Thanks, Joshua

  On 7/2/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
 wrote:
  Joshua,
  As for jaws, sometimes classes are in computer labs or visit
 computer
  labs.
  Mine did so for freshman english.
  You have a right to use the computer with jaws.  If your school
 can only
  place jaws on one computer, then they bought the wrong
 authorization key.
  I don't know the specifics; FS could tell you.  But I believe
 there is a
  network license where jaws can be placed on multiple computers.

  As for brailled texts, yes ask them about other sources.
  NBP can give them a cost estimate rather quickly.  Their 
website
 says
  Textbooks
  Our qualified staff follows the rules for literary, Nemeth,
 music, and
  computer braille codes as set forth by the Braille Authority of
 North
  America (BANA).

  So they do all types of brailling including math and music.

  Good luck with advocacy.  Its too bad you don't have a braille
 display as I
  think that would be helpful to read your work and notes.  
Unless
 you are a
  auditory learner, its easy to miss something by just listening.
  I always study via my braille Note for tests.  Reading my notes
 helps me
  remember them better.  And I like being able to find things
 easily via the
  find command or place markers.

  Ashley

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Joshua Lester
  Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 8:19 PM
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

  Ashley, if you read my other posts, I don't have a note taker,
 anymore.
  I'll bring up NBP, this year.
  Thanks for bringing them up!
  Also, the college is only authorized to put Jaws on one
 computer.
  They can't put it on every one.
  I can't understand why.
  Blessings, Joshua

  On 7/2/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
 wrote:
  Joshua,
  Yes itë­© a big problem.  At nova, community college, they 
failed
 to
  provide
  braille math books too.
  Get an advocate involved.  The school is not helping because
  its very expensive to get a math book transcribed into braille.
  RFB will not produce braille and if that is what you need, then
 they are
  not
  providing you adaquate accomodations.
  A solution is electronic text in Word.  If you get the
 electronic text
  from
  the publisher, a Braille Note or other notetaker with braille
 display
  will
  read the Word file.  I think it can translate the text into
 nemeth
  braille.
  So read it on the braille display.
  Another solution to get some critical concepts is have a reader
 type the
  information in the computer.  Then if you have an embosser,
 emboss the
  material or, again with a braille display, just read it on the
 display
  from
  the computer.

  Its not a perfect solution.  But yes I think you need to see it
 to learn
  it,
  so you need braille and these may be some ways to get braille.
  Your school is trying APH.  How about National braille Press?
 NBP has
  transcribed college level texts before.  They might have an
 algebra book
  your
  school should purchase.  No, it may not be your school's
 textbook, but the
  concepts probably are the same.  You could call NBP for more
 info about a
  book.
  That may be a cheaper option than sending a book to be
 transcribed and
  embossed to braille.
  Ashley


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Joshua Lester
  Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 6:25 PM
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

  Why won't someone help me, get Braille Math books, for my
 community
  college?
  I haven't had a Braille Math book, and it's time for
 Intermediate
  Algebra.
  I've already gone to Disability services, and they're willing 
to
 help,
  on the local level, but they're going through RFBND, (now,
 Learning
  Ally,) instead of APH, for the Blind.
  I've asked them to try them, but I'm not hearing anything.
  This isn't just an FSU issue, it's universities, and community
  colleges, nationwide.
  Something more needs to be done.
  Blessings, Joshua

  On 7/2/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
  I won't be in Orlando, but call me and tell me what happens
  during the general sessions.  I can't go because of money and
  stuff.  Jamie, I'd love to see FSU get bombed with more than 
one
  lawsuit about discrimination against the blind.  You got lots 
of
  errors in their accessibility policy, but I have yet to see
 those
  errors.  I hope to see an article about this in the Monitor.
  Beth

   ----- Original Message -----
  From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 17:22:36 -0400
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

  Thanks to everyone who wished us luck in our case.  I'll relay
  your words of encouragement to Christopher as well.

  See you all in Orlando!

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jul 2, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Joshua Lester
  <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

   Yes she is.
   Jamie, this message is to you, when you look at this list
 again.
   I pray that you're successful, and that other universities 
stop
   discriminating against the disabled.
   Blessings, Joshua

   On 7/2/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
   That is...  outrageous! I believe Jamie's on this list, so I
  wish
   you the best of luck! Mr.  Goldstein is a great lawyer and one
   that NFB has been working with for 20 years, so I think you'll
   have a good chance of winning the case! Good luck!

   Chris

   "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
  motto)

   The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
   Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How?
 Click
   on this link to learn more and to contribute:
   www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
   Foundation.



   Sent from my BrailleNote

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
   To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
   Date sent: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:15:42 -0600
   Subject: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

   Hi, guys.  I thought I might ask you Florida students or any
   students out there if you've heard that two of my friends are
   suing FSU, my old university.  They're suing because of the
 math
   department and the way the faculty has been treating them.  
For
   more, here's a clip of the article.

   Blind Students Sue Florida State University for Discrimination
   6/29/2011


   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
   CONTACT:
   Chris Danielsen
   Director of Public Relations
   National Federation of the Blind
   (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
   (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
   cdanielsen at nfb.org

   Blind Students Sue Florida State University for Discrimination
   National Federation of the Blind Outraged at University's
  Actions
   Baltimore, Maryland (June 29, 2011): With the assistance of 
the
   National
   Federation of the Blind, two blind students-Christopher Shane
   Toth and Jamie
   Ann Principato-filed suit today against Florida State
 University
   (FSU) and
   its board of trustees.  The suit alleges that FSU's Department
  of
   Mathematics discriminated against Mr.  Toth and Ms.  
Principato
   by
   failing to
   provide them with proper accommodations so that they could
   successfully
   complete required math courses for their respective degree
   programs.  The
   violations include requiring the students to use an
 inaccessible
   Web-based
   application to complete homework assignments, tests, and
  quizzes;
   requiring
   the use of clickers that cannot be used by a blind person to
   respond to
   in-class questions and obtain bonus credit; failing to provide
   Braille
   versions of the required textbooks in violation of agreed-upon
   accommodation
   plans; and engaging in retaliatory actions when the students
   complained of
   these violations.  In all cases, faculty members in the
   Department of
   Mathematics were generally uncooperative, unhelpful, and even
   hostile, and
   did not provide meaningful alternative methods for Mr.  Toth
 and
   Ms.
   Principato to successfully complete the required courses.  As 
a
   result, both
   students are currently unable to continue their degree 
programs
   and find
   their careers indefinitely on hold.

   Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
   Blind, said:
   "Discrimination against blind students is all too common, but
 it
   rarely
   stems from actual animus towards the students.  This case,
   however, involves
   the repeated, deliberate, and intentional disregard of the
  rights
   of these
   two students, whose academic records have now suffered
   irreparable damage
   and who have suffered lost opportunities, emotional distress,
   embarrassment,
   humiliation, and retaliation by university officials.  The
   National
   Federation of the Blind will not stand for this outrageous
   treatment of
   blind students and we will continue to support this lawsuit as
   fully as
   necessary in order to ensure that these young people are
   compensated for the
   egregious conduct of faculty and staff in FSU's Department of
   Mathematics."

   The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Daniel F.
   Goldstein, Sharon
   Krevor-Weisbaum, and Brooke E.  Lierman of the Baltimore firm
   Brown,
   Goldstein, and Levy; and Matthew Dietz of the Miami firm Law
   Offices of
   Matthew W.  Dietz, P.L.

   Beth Taurasi
   Sent from my BrailleNote Apex

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