[nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

Sun Jul 3 21:07:35 UTC 2011

Ashley, ah, that's a nice double standard.  Lovely, isn't it? And 
very sad.
Best,
Josh

sent from my Apex
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

 ----- Original Message -----
From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 17:03:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

What do they do for students without disabilities? Well, many 
state
universities and community colleges are spending millions on 
entertainment
systems.  They are spending tons to upgrade
existing computers, projectors, and other technology.  Ever 
wonder how much
those computers cost to maintain and upgrade?  It¡¯s a lot of 
money, yet my
school won't even upgrade to jaws 12.
Entertainment includes fitness equipment, which is somewhat 
inaccessible to
us, of course with flat pannels.
Also, they get big expensive plasma tvs, internet connections in 
the
classrooms and most of the campus, a pool table and other 
entertainment
things.
Ah, they can spend money on non essential things to please other 
students
and make them comfortable, but when it comes to requesting a jaws 
upgrade or
a brailled exam, that seems to difficult to get and handle.
I've been frustrated with the community college's inadequate 
accomodations
including the inability to produce braille and tactile graphics.
I needed braille to read the punctuation and spelling in my exams 
because
they were testing us on the ability to edit and correct errors.
Well, in short, they could not braille in-house and said they 
were not going
to get a new embosser because hardly any students would need it.  
That is
true; only one or two blind students at a time need braille.
So I guess I kind of understand that.  Well, they outsourced the 
brailling to
another school, but I had to politely stay on them about getting 
the exam
back and find out when they delivered it to the testing center.

Its frustrating.  I hope the lawsuit yeilds positive results.
Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Gregory
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:48 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

Just a thought: Cost should only matter if the school is having
budget issues or something...  otherwise...  what do they do for
students without disabilities?
Best,
Josh

sent from my Apex
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 01:34:14 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

This is what Freedomscientific website says.

Multi-user options are available for JAWS Professional and
Standard
licenses, MAGic Professional licenses only, and all OpenBook
licenses.
They may be purchased
in blocks of five seats in all cases.  In the US, please call
1-800-444-4443 for pricing.  International customers, please
contact
your local distributor
for pricing.
Site License: Specifically designed for educational institutions,
public libraries, and organizations whose sole purpose is to
better
the lives of the
visually impaired.  The Site License may only be used at one
designated
location.

District License: Also designed for educational institutions,
public
libraries, and organizations whose sole purpose is to better the
lives
of the visually
impaired.  This license allows the institution to install the
software
at more than one facility.

Enterprise License: Tailored to meet the needs of private
businesses
and government agencies.  The enterprise license may be installed
in
multiple locations,
but may only be used on machines owned by the specified company
or agency.

So your school would have to get a District License.  My school
allows
me to put a demo on any and all of the computers I wish.  better
than
nothing but not as great as having a full version.
What about using one of those thumb drive Jaws?
I need to look online on how that will work.  I am going to take
a
computer class in the fall and need to figure out about putting
jaws
on a computer.  My schools says that they only allow up to $250
per
student to spend on stuff for school if they are unable to
purches it
themselves They did start to look in to getting my math and other
books in braille until i told them how much it would cost.
At least they thought about it!
I too face simmular problems that these two are facing.  My
college
uses math labs on the web that is not totally exsessible to blind
people.  I have to have all my math read to me and is difficult
at
times when I have to spend hours a week in the learning center as
if I
am taking a whole other class that I am not getting credit for.

On 7/2/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
If anyone can help me find a good deal on a Pac Mate, with a 20
cell
display, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks, Joshua

On 7/2/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
wrote:
Joshua,
As for jaws, sometimes classes are in computer labs or visit
computer
labs.
Mine did so for freshman english.
You have a right to use the computer with jaws.  If your school
can only
place jaws on one computer, then they bought the wrong
authorization key.
I don't know the specifics; FS could tell you.  But I believe
there is a
network license where jaws can be placed on multiple computers.

As for brailled texts, yes ask them about other sources.
NBP can give them a cost estimate rather quickly.  Their website
says
Textbooks
Our qualified staff follows the rules for literary, Nemeth,
music, and
computer braille codes as set forth by the Braille Authority of
North
America (BANA).

So they do all types of brailling including math and music.

Good luck with advocacy.  Its too bad you don't have a braille
display as I
think that would be helpful to read your work and notes.  Unless
you are a
auditory learner, its easy to miss something by just listening.
I always study via my braille Note for tests.  Reading my notes
helps me
remember them better.  And I like being able to find things
easily via the
find command or place markers.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 8:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

Ashley, if you read my other posts, I don't have a note taker,
anymore.
I'll bring up NBP, this year.
Thanks for bringing them up!
Also, the college is only authorized to put Jaws on one
computer.
They can't put it on every one.
I can't understand why.
Blessings, Joshua

On 7/2/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
wrote:
Joshua,
Yes it’s a big problem.  At nova, community college, they failed
to
provide
braille math books too.
Get an advocate involved.  The school is not helping because
its very expensive to get a math book transcribed into braille.
RFB will not produce braille and if that is what you need, then
they are
not
providing you adaquate accomodations.
A solution is electronic text in Word.  If you get the
electronic text
from
the publisher, a Braille Note or other notetaker with braille
display
will
read the Word file.  I think it can translate the text into
nemeth
braille.
So read it on the braille display.
Another solution to get some critical concepts is have a reader
type the
information in the computer.  Then if you have an embosser,
emboss the
material or, again with a braille display, just read it on the
display
from
the computer.

Its not a perfect solution.  But yes I think you need to see it
to learn
it,
so you need braille and these may be some ways to get braille.
Your school is trying APH.  How about National braille Press?
NBP has
transcribed college level texts before.  They might have an
algebra book
your
school should purchase.  No, it may not be your school's
textbook, but the
concepts probably are the same.  You could call NBP for more
info about a
book.
That may be a cheaper option than sending a book to be
transcribed and
embossed to braille.
Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 6:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

Why won't someone help me, get Braille Math books, for my
community
college?
I haven't had a Braille Math book, and it's time for
Intermediate
Algebra.
I've already gone to Disability services, and they're willing to
help,
on the local level, but they're going through RFBND, (now,
Learning
Ally,) instead of APH, for the Blind.
I've asked them to try them, but I'm not hearing anything.
This isn't just an FSU issue, it's universities, and community
colleges, nationwide.
Something more needs to be done.
Blessings, Joshua

On 7/2/11, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
I won't be in Orlando, but call me and tell me what happens
during the general sessions.  I can't go because of money and
stuff.  Jamie, I'd love to see FSU get bombed with more than one
lawsuit about discrimination against the blind.  You got lots of
errors in their accessibility policy, but I have yet to see
those
errors.  I hope to see an article about this in the Monitor.
Beth

  ----- Original Message -----
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 17:22:36 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

Thanks to everyone who wished us luck in our case.  I'll relay
your words of encouragement to Christopher as well.

See you all in Orlando!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Joshua Lester
<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

  Yes she is.
  Jamie, this message is to you, when you look at this list
again.
  I pray that you're successful, and that other universities stop
  discriminating against the disabled.
  Blessings, Joshua

  On 7/2/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
  That is...  outrageous! I believe Jamie's on this list, so I
wish
  you the best of luck! Mr.  Goldstein is a great lawyer and one
  that NFB has been working with for 20 years, so I think you'll
  have a good chance of winning the case! Good luck!

  Chris

  "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
motto)

  The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
  Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How?
Click
  on this link to learn more and to contribute:
  www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
  Foundation.

  Sent from my BrailleNote

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Fri, 01 Jul 2011 22:15:42 -0600
  Subject: [nabs-l] did anyone hear about the FSU lawsuit?

  Hi, guys.  I thought I might ask you Florida students or any
  students out there if you've heard that two of my friends are
  suing FSU, my old university.  They're suing because of the
math
  department and the way the faculty has been treating them.  For
  more, here's a clip of the article.

  Blind Students Sue Florida State University for Discrimination
  6/29/2011

  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
  CONTACT:
  Chris Danielsen
  Director of Public Relations
  National Federation of the Blind
  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
  cdanielsen at nfb.org

  Blind Students Sue Florida State University for Discrimination
  National Federation of the Blind Outraged at University's
Actions
  Baltimore, Maryland (June 29, 2011): With the assistance of the
  National
  Federation of the Blind, two blind students-Christopher Shane
  Toth and Jamie
  Ann Principato-filed suit today against Florida State
University
  (FSU) and
  its board of trustees.  The suit alleges that FSU's Department
of
  Mathematics discriminated against Mr.  Toth and Ms.  Principato
  by
  failing to
  provide them with proper accommodations so that they could
  successfully
  complete required math courses for their respective degree
  programs.  The
  violations include requiring the students to use an
inaccessible
  Web-based
  application to complete homework assignments, tests, and
quizzes;
  requiring
  the use of clickers that cannot be used by a blind person to
  respond to
  in-class questions and obtain bonus credit; failing to provide
  Braille
  versions of the required textbooks in violation of agreed-upon
  accommodation
  plans; and engaging in retaliatory actions when the students
  complained of
  these violations.  In all cases, faculty members in the
  Department of
  Mathematics were generally uncooperative, unhelpful, and even
  hostile, and
  did not provide meaningful alternative methods for Mr.  Toth
and
  Ms.
  Principato to successfully complete the required courses.  As a
  result, both
  students are currently unable to continue their degree programs
  and find
  their careers indefinitely on hold.

  Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
  Blind, said:
  "Discrimination against blind students is all too common, but
it
  rarely
  stems from actual animus towards the students.  This case,
  however, involves
  the repeated, deliberate, and intentional disregard of the
rights
  of these
  two students, whose academic records have now suffered
  irreparable damage
  and who have suffered lost opportunities, emotional distress,
  embarrassment,
  humiliation, and retaliation by university officials.  The
  National
  Federation of the Blind will not stand for this outrageous
  treatment of
  blind students and we will continue to support this lawsuit as
  fully as
  necessary in order to ensure that these young people are
  compensated for the
  egregious conduct of faculty and staff in FSU's Department of
  Mathematics."

  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Daniel F.
  Goldstein, Sharon
  Krevor-Weisbaum, and Brooke E.  Lierman of the Baltimore firm
  Brown,
  Goldstein, and Levy; and Matthew Dietz of the Miami firm Law
  Offices of
  Matthew W.  Dietz, P.L.

  Beth Taurasi
  Sent from my BrailleNote Apex

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--
Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
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Lea.williams738
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