[nabs-l] [Braillenote] notetakers: are they worth buyinganymore?

Fri Jul 29 00:06:30 UTC 2011

Chris,
I love the BN for its built in display and portability and of course 
accessibility.
Yes we have talking computers and now talking smart phones but they are not 
the same as a good accessible PDA such as the Braille Note.
I think more would opt for the accessible PDA rather than a talking Ipad or 
Iphone if the notetakers were actually affordable. Even if you work, the 
average entry level salary is 35,000 and buying that 4k or 6k notetaker 
isn't very affortable. Some large employers and the government actually buy 
notetakers for their employees. But still many
blind people's employers cannot afford that.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:31 PM
To: Jasmine Kotsay ; crazy-shawty at ukfreeisp.co.uk ; dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Cc: braillenote at list.humanware.com ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Braillenote] notetakers: are they worth 
buyinganymore?

Braille is vital and I love using Braille to operate my BN! Just
asking the question! * Smile!

Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
Foundation.

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
To: crazy-shawty aka everything you're muther wanted you to be
but you aintquite turned out like me?
<crazy-shawty at ukfreeisp.co.uk>, dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Date sent: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:40:25 -0700
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] notetakers: are they worth buying
anymore?

Hi Louise,
I totally agree with you! I LOVE Braille, and I'll never quit
using it.  I love screen readers, too, but I'll never part with
braille, even if computers and smart phones talk.
----- Original Message -----
From: crazy-shawty aka everything you're muther wanted you to be
but you aintquite turned out like me?
<crazy-shawty at ukfreeisp.co.uk
To: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Date sent: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:08:34 +0100
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] notetakers: are they worth buying
anymore?

This is a question i have to think about.  I really wanted and
apex after
my mpower and got it while i was working.  I am made up with it
for what
i use it for just as i was made up with the mpower when i have
that.  I
have a computer with nvda because it is the best screen reader
for me.  I
use the computer for anything graphical or programs that are only
on the
computer like wavepad but have not got my braillenot paired as a
display
despite trying.
I use my braillenote exclusively for reading books and writing
documents
as it is much more comfortable to write in braille.  I also love
the
braillenote's speech keynote gold synthesizer more than my
screenreader
I use my braillenote for websites like facebook and twitter as i
find it
presents them to me in a better way.  I would feel lost without
my
braillenote and the ability to read and write braille and have
speech
all in one device.  I like the fact it has it own unique menus
and is
accessible no matter what i am using it for.

As for the question of braille, i will never not use it, it is
great to
have an all in one device you can use in a silent environment
without
needing headphones.  A add-on braille display is too much messing
and
connecting to my laptop

I do not like touch screen devices and have r.s.i and dexterity
problems
through this and a keypad or keyboard suits me.  Just because an
iphone
talks, doesn't mean it is accessible to every blind person.

To summarize, i feel both a braillenote and computer have a place
for
what they do best.  I use them both equally for different things
and
maybe the braillenot more as it is so com-packed and light whilst
being
totally accessible and designed for a blind user.

Louise.

On 25/07/2011 04:44, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
Hi Alex,

I totally agree with you! When my friend Josh, who is on this
and the
NABS list, got an iTouch for his birthday recently.  I was at
the
birthday party, and when I asked him if he was going to "ditch
the BN
and do everything on the iTouch," he said "probably." To which I
replied, "Well, what about the Braille display? I don't think
you would
want to be stuck somewhere where it isn't easy for you to use
text-to-speech, for whatever reason, and Braille would fix the
problem,
but you're not using your BN anymore, so you don't have the
Braille to
rely on." By the way, screen readers don't read PDF files
either, unless
you have Adobe, and Adobe's annoying in my opinion.  They're
always
telling you you need a new update! The reading of Docx files is
just
stupid on HumanWare's part, in my opinion.  I mean, come on, the
Victor
Reader Stream's latest version can read Docx files.  So if one
HW
product, the Stream, can read these files, then why can't
another, the
BN Apex?

Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
motto)

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have
the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link
to learn
more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info or like us on
Facebook
at I C.A.N.  Foundation.

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Hall <mehgcap at gmail.com
To: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Date sent: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 22:33:27 -0400
Subject: Re: [Braillenote] notetakers: are they worth buying
anymore?

Oh boy, this will get interesting! <smile

Here are my thoughts.  Like you, I do not have an opinion yet,
since I
think there are good cases both for and against specialized
braille
notetakers.  However, I think that the notetaker's days are
numbered;
it costs more to buy and maintain, it cannot do as much, and
mainstream solutions just keep getting better while our own
notetakers
still can't read docx or pdf files, in mid 2011.

Pro Case:
The notetaker is still the easiest to use, not requiring the
purchasing of special software, the underlying accessibility
frameworks to be used, or the myriad commands or gestures needed
(I
realize a case could be made against that last one).  Notetakers
are up
and ready to go, no connecting the display or anything.  They
are also
designed from the ground up with accessibility in mind; where
else can
you write in three different braille codes in one document,
depending
on the situation? A notetaker, in other words, is designed for a
blind
person to use efficiently and easily, while mainstream devices
that
are accessible are designed with sighted users in mind and then
made
to be accessible after the fact.  Yes, they cost more, but so do
screen
readers, and screen reader upgrades, at least for JFW, can cost
more
than BrailleNote upgrades.

Con Case:
Some of what is in the Pro section is company-specific and so
cannot
be applied to the notetaker or screen reader industries as a
whole.
For instance, JFW upgrades do cost money, as do BrailleNote
upgrades,
but HIMS upgrades are free.  The NVDA screen reader is free to
begin
with.  As for braille being ready immediately, iOS has this
covered;
turn on the display and unlock your iTouch and the two will pair
within five seconds automatically.
(I will now focus on iOS as it is the only mainstream device I
have
been able to use braille with.)
iOS is very accessible and, aside from some grade 2 translation
problems, I find it very useable.  It lacks a good
wordprocessor, but I
can install any number of other apps on it.  A dictionary for my
bn
costs $200 from Humanware, but a dictionary app costs nothing
whatsoever and can go online for definitions if I want it to.
There
are countless games, utilities, and other apps on my iPod that
my bn
could never manage, and most of them were free, not hundreds of
dollars.  Are they as accessible as Keyword on the bn? Not all
of them,
but many are, provided one does not apply the same useability
model to
the iPod as one would to the bn.  That is, the iPod has a screen
I can
touch to do things, whereas the bn relies only on keyboard
input.  It
is unfair to call the iPod not as accessible because everything
cannot
be done from a braille or QWERTY keyboard, since the iPod was
not
designed with keyboard use in mind, just as the bn was not
designed
with a touch-sensitive pad in mind.

The other question was whether braille is important.  I consider
braille absolutely essential.  I often use the iPod and apex
together,
since each offers different things that the other cannot do, or
cannot
do as well.  For instance, I might check my Twitter feed on the
iPod
through the bn's terminal application, then exit the terminal
and send
an email on the bn since I can write faster and not worry about
translation errors.  I may then go back into terminal to open a
PDF
document, and jump between reading the PDF in braille on the bn
(via
the iPod) and writing notes on the bn (in it's own
wordprocessor).
However, even if I did not have the apex, and only the iPod, I
would
have gotten a display of some kind.  What happens when it is
noisy and
I cannot hear the speech well enough? What about when I have no
headphones with me but am somewhere where a yapping computer is
not
welcomed, such as taking notes in a class or meeting? What about
when
I simply want to see how a word is spelled, or look at the
spacing of
a document, without reading character by character with speech?
Braille is vital in these and other instances, and so I consider
it
vital to whatever mobile computing solution a blind person
decides to
use.  My computer at home does not have a display because there
is
rarely a time when one would be useful, since the room where the
computer is set up is quiet and I can use arrows, sound schemes,
and
other means to quickly examine text if I need to.  However, my
apex/iPod combo goes everywhere with me when I am out of the
house,
and I most often use the bn, whether I am actually using the
bn's
applications or am using it as a terminal for the iPod.

On 7/24/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,

I don't have a set opinion on this matter as of yet, but I'd
like
to initiate the discussion.  I'm noticing a trend in the
blindness technology field: PC's can do most everything a
notetaker (BrailleNote, BrailleSense, PacMate, etc.) can do,
with
some obvious changes and differences, and in some cases can do
and support more than the notetaker.  This is also true with the
ever-improving accessible smartphones and tablets: the iPhone,
iPad, iPod Touch, (the semiaccessible) Android phones, the KNFB
Reader, etc.  Yes, the notetakers have built-in Braille
displays,
but you can also install a stand-alone Braille display on a
computer to display what's on the screen, or you could just buy
a
screen reader (text-to-speech, not text-to-Braille) as a
replacement for the Braille display...  that is, if you think it
is in fact a replacement for refreshable Braille.  That's
another
question for all of you in this discussion.  So, here's the
question: with all the advancements and capabilities of a
computer and screen readers or stand-alone refreshable Braille
displays, is it worth it, in your opinion, to buy a notetaker
anymore? What, given all the things a PC can do, is the real
purpose of the notetakers now? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities
motto)

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
Foundation.

Sent from my BrailleNote

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--
Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
mehgcap at gmail.com; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap

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