From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 00:27:43 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:27:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <4de571d8.524ee50a.18f7.2564@mx.google.com> References: <4de571d8.524ee50a.18f7.2564@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I still stand by what I said, however: Be cautious that the positive image your projecting is for your own benefit, and perhaps your close family and friends; not a world at large in which you may never be accepted. The cold hard truth is, we will not be able to change the minds of every person we encounter. This topic's subject, security in ourselves, is what is most important. So, while we should strive to be the best we can be, we are not Supermen and Superwomen, we are just like everyone else. We love, hate, laugh, cry and all the rest like everyone else. That is the part of ourselves we should be betraying, our humanity. On 5/31/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > You make a lot of sense! I'm still trying to get rid of my > blindism, and sometimes I would get a little annoyed when Mom > always "got on my case" about it. She told me that, like it or > not, the world around me is mostly sighted and wrong or right, > they make judgments on people based on what they see. So if we > want to change what it means to be blind (hint hint, NFB says > that all the time) we need to convey that positive image about > blindness not only in what we say, but in what sighted people see > visually from us. > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Daniel Romero To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:27:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view > that > we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted > are not > used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind > person > being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a > person > thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. > So if > you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes > or > just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make > an > assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not > saying > it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a > skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them > out > because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label > on us > blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be > independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right > but I > don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative > conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, > twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own > clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's > going > to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall > right > behind that. Am I making sense? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 00:29:08 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:29:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4de571d8.524ee50a.18f7.2564@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sorry for the double post, but oops, meant portraying in that last post, not betraying! That's what I get for typing too fast, huh? On 5/31/11, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > I still stand by what I said, however: Be cautious that the positive > image your projecting is for your own benefit, and perhaps your close > family and friends; not a world at large in which you may never be > accepted. The cold hard truth is, we will not be able to change the > minds of every person we encounter. This topic's subject, security in > ourselves, is what is most important. So, while we should strive to be > the best we can be, we are not Supermen and Superwomen, we are just > like everyone else. We love, hate, laugh, cry and all the rest like > everyone else. That is the part of ourselves we should be betraying, > our humanity. > > On 5/31/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> You make a lot of sense! I'm still trying to get rid of my >> blindism, and sometimes I would get a little annoyed when Mom >> always "got on my case" about it. She told me that, like it or >> not, the world around me is mostly sighted and wrong or right, >> they make judgments on people based on what they see. So if we >> want to change what it means to be blind (hint hint, NFB says >> that all the time) we need to convey that positive image about >> blindness not only in what we say, but in what sighted people see >> visually from us. >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Daniel Romero > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:27:53 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others >> >> I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view >> that >> we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted >> are not >> used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind >> person >> being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a >> person >> thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. >> So if >> you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes >> or >> just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make >> an >> assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not >> saying >> it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a >> skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them >> out >> because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label >> on us >> blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be >> independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right >> but I >> don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative >> conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, >> twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own >> clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's >> going >> to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall >> right >> behind that. Am I making sense? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > From AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com Wed Jun 1 00:35:03 2011 From: AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com (Alexander Kaiser) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:35:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response Required: Rehabilitation center question Message-ID: ____________________________________________________________ Send your photos by email in seconds... TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3 Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. From AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com Wed Jun 1 00:37:59 2011 From: AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com (Alexander Kaiser) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:37:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely fast Response Required: Rehabilitation center question Message-ID: <0099CD22A2024E21B157B083C5F3F8A0@1x3pqn1> extremely urgent extremely fast Response Required: Attention All Floridian Students, Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to discuss an important matter. I would like to find out more information on the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. I also want to know if training at the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired is adequate or inadequate for blind students seeking independence. I would like to speak to someone who has just recently attended the Conklin Center for the Blind. I would also like to hear from someone who just recently Attended lighthouse of Broward . I would like to speek to anyone who just recently attended Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. If someone has recently attended , I would also like to talk to you because I would also like to get oppinions on all three rehabilitation centers from people with prior experiences at these three centers. I can be contacted off list by aim, msn IM Yahoo IM, email and cell phone and skype. My msn ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My aim ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My yahoo IM address is weatherwiz999 at yahoo.com. My email address is AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. Thank you, Alex Kaiser ____________________________________________________________ GET FREE SMILEYS FOR YOUR IM & EMAIL - Learn more at http://www.inbox.com/smileys Works with AIM®, MSN® Messenger, Yahoo!® Messenger, ICQ®, Google TalkT and most webmails From AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com Wed Jun 1 00:56:12 2011 From: AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com (Alexander Kaiser) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% recommended: rehabilitation center question Message-ID: <5901DB11E13A4316824AF50531174461@1x3pqn1> extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% recommended: Attention All Floridian Students, Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to discuss an extremely important matter. I would like to find out more information on the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. I would like to learn about how basic the training at the Lighthouse of broward, training at the Conklin center for the blind and training at the Florida Devision of blind services Rehabilitation and adjustment center for the blind and Visually Impaired is compared to the entensity of training at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I also want to know if training at the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired is adequate or inadequate for blind students seeking independence. I would like to speak to someone who has just recently attended the Conklin Center for the Blind. I would also like to hear from someone who just recently Attended lighthouse of Broward . I would like to speek to anyone who just recently attended Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. If someone has recently attended , I would also like to talk to you because I would also like to get oppinions on all three rehabilitation centers from people with prior experiences at these three centers. I can be contacted off list by aim, msn IM Yahoo IM, email and cell phone and skype. My msn ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My aim ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My yahoo IM address is weatherwiz999 at yahoo.com. My email address is AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. Thank you, Alex Kaiser ____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Jun 1 00:56:22 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <20110601005622.20882.70893@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Okay. We know that some blindisms (as they are called) are a direct result of blind children not getting the appropriate opportunities to move around that they should have gotten early on. But I also think that so-called blindisms can also be our version of boredisms, little self-adaptive behaviors that we do when we've shifted our attention. They could also be behaviors that we do when we're excited or overstimulated. Sighted people have these, too. For example, they drumb their fingers, fidget, shake their knees, etc. These are no more appropriate than our behaviors except that they are more normative. So here's a thought. Instead of trying to eraticate a so-called blindism, try employing some alternative movement. So instead of rocking, tap a foot or shake an ankle. My mother suggested this technique to me and it worked. Eventually, i found that I didn't need the alternative movement. I guess employing the alternative made me more aware of my behavior and so I stopped it on my own. But in those weird times when I am moving, I find that I'm shaking an ankle or something, and most sighted people don't think much of it because they do it, too. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > You make a lot of sense! I'm still trying to get rid of my > blindism, and sometimes I would get a little annoyed when Mom > always "got on my case" about it. She told me that, like it or > not, the world around me is mostly sighted and wrong or right, > they make judgments on people based on what they see. So if we > want to change what it means to be blind (hint hint, NFB says > that all the time) we need to convey that positive image about > blindness not only in what we say, but in what sighted people see > visually from us. > Chris > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Daniel Romero To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:27:53 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view > that > we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted > are not > used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind > person > being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a > person > thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. > So if > you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes > or > just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make > an > assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not > saying > it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a > skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them > out > because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label > on us > blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be > independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right > but I > don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative > conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, > twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own > clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's > going > to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall > right > behind that. Am I making sense? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu Wed Jun 1 01:02:35 2011 From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:02:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% recommended: rehabilitation center question In-Reply-To: <5901DB11E13A4316824AF50531174461@1x3pqn1> References: <5901DB11E13A4316824AF50531174461@1x3pqn1> Message-ID: Hey. Alix, we don't know, the answer to your question, so please stop the posting. Thanks, Joshua On 5/31/11, Alexander Kaiser wrote: > extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% > recommended: > Attention All Floridian Students, > Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to discuss an extremely > important matter. I would like to find out more information on the Conklin > Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind > services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually > impaired. I would like to learn about how basic the training at the > Lighthouse of broward, training at the Conklin center for the blind and > training at the Florida Devision of blind services Rehabilitation and > adjustment center for the blind and Visually Impaired is compared to the > entensity of training at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I also want to > know if training at the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, > and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center > for the Blind and Visually impaired is adequate or inadequate for blind > students seeking independence. I would like to speak to someone who has > just recently attended the Conklin Center for the Blind. I would also like > to hear from someone who just recently Attended lighthouse of Broward . I > would like to speek to anyone who just recently attended Florida Devision of > blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and > Visually impaired. If someone has recently attended , I would also like to > talk to you because I would also like to get oppinions on all three > rehabilitation centers from people with prior experiences at these three > centers. I can be contacted off list by aim, msn IM Yahoo IM, email and > cell phone and skype. My msn ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My aim ID is > coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My yahoo IM address is weatherwiz999 at yahoo.com. > My email address is AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is > 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. > > Thank you, > Alex Kaiser > > ____________________________________________________________ > FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your > desktop! > Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jun 1 01:06:13 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:06:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response Required:Rehabilitation center question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D260C091CDF4E29ACE6F4417C77E0E8@OwnerPC> Alexander, The message was blank -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Kaiser Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:35 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response Required:Rehabilitation center question ____________________________________________________________ Send your photos by email in seconds... TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3 Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:14:22 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:14:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: References: <001101cc1f97$8b9f08c0$a2dd1a40$@com> Message-ID: <4CD278BB-B98A-43E3-8D56-64BD2387C23E@gmail.com> They're a pain only when trying to type long document/texting on them. At least for me. Everything else is fine. On May 31, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Joshua Lester wrote: > They've been a pain, for me. > I guess, it's because I'm not used to them. > Blessings, Joshua > > On 5/31/11, Alexander wrote: >> I think they are awesome devices and blind people can use them because they >> can. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Joshua Lester >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 3:25 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> Touch Screens are of the devil! >> Blind people, like myself, can't use them. >> Buttons are better. >> I don't have any notetakers now, but it's Pac Mate, all the way! >> Blessings, Joshua >> >> On 5/31/11, Philip S wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch >>> screen. How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices >>> adopt this interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in >>> the rear, or something in between...? Please share how you feel about >>> it and be as thorough as you wish. >>> >>> Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile phones do >>> you use now? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40studen >> ts.pccua.edu >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aaatlantic%40aol.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3666 - Release Date: 05/28/11 >> 18:34:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com Wed Jun 1 01:24:40 2011 From: AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com (Alexander Kaiser) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:24:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% recommended: response needed: Rehabilatation center question Message-ID: extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% recommended: response needed: Attention All Floridian blind students: Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to discuss an extremely important matter. I would like to find out more information on the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. I would like to learn about how basic the training at the Lighthouse of broward, training at the Conklin center for the blind and training at the Florida Devision of blind services Rehabilitation and adjustment center for the blind and Visually Impaired is compared to the entensity of training at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I also want to know if I should attend one of the three centers. How are the living quarters at the lighthouse of broward, conklin center for the Blind and at the Florida devision of Blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the blind and Visually Impaired? I am moving to Florida in July. I am doing research to see what NFB members say about each of these three centers. I also want to know if training at the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired is adequate or inadequate for blind students seeking independence. I would like to speak to someone who has just recently attended the Conklin Center for the Blind. I would also like to hear from someone who just recently Attended lighthouse of Broward . I would like to speek to anyone who just recently attended Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. If someone has recently attended , I would also like to talk to you because I would also like to get oppinions on all three rehabilitation centers from people with prior experiences at these three centers. I can be contacted off list by aim, msn IM Yahoo IM, email and cell phone and skype. My msn ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My aim ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My yahoo IM address is weatherwiz999 at yahoo.com. My email address is AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. Thank you, Alex Kaiser ____________________________________________________________ Send any screenshot to your friends in seconds... Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if2 for FREE From joshkart12 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:29:46 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:29:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely fastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed: Rehabilatationcenter question Message-ID: <4de5961b.8c00e50a.6f46.265b@mx.google.com> Hi, This has come to the list multiple times. As others have said, you may have an issue with your email program. You may want to check that. Thank you, Josh sent from my Apex Email:joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Kaiser" References: <0D260C091CDF4E29ACE6F4417C77E0E8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: This spammer should be removed from the list. On 5/31/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Alexander, > The message was blank > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Kaiser > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:35 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response > Required:Rehabilitation center question > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Send your photos by email in seconds... > TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3 > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:34:56 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:34:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <20110601005622.20882.70893@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110601005622.20882.70893@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: That's a good way to look at it. I know myself that I always want to be doing something with my hands. I'd venture to say that, as Braille readers, we take in more through our fingers, even using them as our eyes in a sense. So it makes sense that we want to employ some form of stimulation since we are not getting the visual stimulation that sighted people get when their eyes roam around a room, or look at a clock in a boring meeting, etc. On 5/31/11, Jedi wrote: > Okay. > > We know that some blindisms (as they are called) are a direct result of > blind children not getting the appropriate opportunities to move around > that they should have gotten early on. But I also think that so-called > blindisms can also be our version of boredisms, little self-adaptive > behaviors that we do when we've shifted our attention. They could also > be behaviors that we do when we're excited or overstimulated. Sighted > people have these, too. For example, they drumb their fingers, fidget, > shake their knees, etc. These are no more appropriate than our > behaviors except that they are more normative. So here's a thought. > Instead of trying to eraticate a so-called blindism, try employing some > alternative movement. So instead of rocking, tap a foot or shake an > ankle. My mother suggested this technique to me and it worked. > Eventually, i found that I didn't need the alternative movement. I > guess employing the alternative made me more aware of my behavior and > so I stopped it on my own. But in those weird times when I am moving, I > find that I'm shaking an ankle or something, and most sighted people > don't think much of it because they do it, too. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> You make a lot of sense! I'm still trying to get rid of my >> blindism, and sometimes I would get a little annoyed when Mom >> always "got on my case" about it. She told me that, like it or >> not, the world around me is mostly sighted and wrong or right, >> they make judgments on people based on what they see. So if we >> want to change what it means to be blind (hint hint, NFB says >> that all the time) we need to convey that positive image about >> blindness not only in what we say, but in what sighted people see >> visually from us. > >> Chris > >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Daniel Romero > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:27:53 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > >> I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view >> that >> we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted >> are not >> used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind >> person >> being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a >> person >> thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. >> So if >> you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes >> or >> just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make >> an >> assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not >> saying >> it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a >> skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them >> out >> because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label >> on us >> blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be >> independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right >> but I >> don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative >> conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, >> twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own >> clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's >> going >> to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall >> right >> behind that. Am I making sense? > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:36:14 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:36:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremelyfastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed:Rehabilatationcenter question References: <4de5961b.8c00e50a.6f46.265b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7D165B62366C4495A168F6284E52939C@hometwxakonvzn> I've given him the emailaddress of our director of the Florida division of blind services. I shall provide it here in case Alex didn't get it. Hildreth, Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Gregory" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremelyfastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed:Rehabilatationcenter question > Hi, > This has come to the list multiple times. As others have said, you may > have an issue with your email program. You may want to check that. > Thank you, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email:joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexander Kaiser" To: Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:24:40 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely > fastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed: Rehabilatationcenter > question > > extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% > recommended: response needed: > > Attention All Floridian blind students: > Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to discuss an extremely > important matter. I would like to find out more information on the > Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision > of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and > Visually impaired. I would like to learn about how basic the training at > the Lighthouse of broward, training at the Conklin center for the blind > and training at the Florida Devision of blind services Rehabilitation and > adjustment center for the blind and Visually Impaired is compared to the > entensity of training at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I also want > to know if I should attend one of the three centers. How are the living > quarters at the lighthouse of broward, conklin center for the Blind and at > the Florida devision of Blind services rehabilitation and adjustment > center for the blind and Visually Impaired? I am moving to Florida in > July. I am doing research to see what NFB members say about each of these > three centers. I also want to know if training at the Conklin Center for > the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services > rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired > is adequate or inadequate for blind students seeking independence. I > would like to speak to someone who has just recently attended the Conklin > Center for the Blind. I would also like to hear from someone who just > recently Attended lighthouse of Broward . I would like to speek to > anyone who just recently attended Florida Devision of blind services > rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. > If someone has recently attended , I would also like to talk to you > because I would also like to get oppinions on all three rehabilitation > centers from people with prior experiences at these three centers. I can > be contacted off list by aim, msn IM Yahoo IM, email and cell phone and > skype. My msn ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My aim ID is > coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My yahoo IM address is > weatherwiz999 at yahoo.com. My email address is > AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 > 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. > > Thank you, > Alex Kaiser > > ____________________________________________________________ > Send any screenshot to your friends in seconds... > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social > networks. > TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if2 for FREE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com Please email her at once, and not this list. Thank you From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Jun 1 01:39:32 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:39:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Florida rehabilitation center question immediate responsegranted In-Reply-To: <48CC8B7C4BC243DA9E6D6C5E85B3D77A@1x3pqn1> References: <48CC8B7C4BC243DA9E6D6C5E85B3D77A@1x3pqn1> Message-ID: Dear Alexander, You might want to post this on the florida student list. Also I hope sending this so many times was a mistake. Also, you might want to state some background of yourself like if you finished college and more specific questions. Asking if the services are adequate or inadequate is a very broad question. Remember people's needs vary. If you want a total package of skills, then a residential adjustment center may be best. But if you want just training in a specific area such as daily living skills, then the lighthouse may suit your needs. Expectations vary from center to center and a good way to know is by talking to staff, observing a class, touring the facility, and asking those students who went there as you just did. I cannot speak to the Lighthouse of Broward, but I can say that the Columbia lighthouse for the blind, CLB, has decent training. I've heard mainly good things about it and I was pleased with the mobility service they gave me. What is neat about CLB, is that they will come to your work and help install technology and I believe they can do training at your workplace or home or at their offices. They also offer a day camp for kids and special events for them. I think this is a good service because blind and visually impaired kids don't get to do every day fun things with people like themselves and CLB provides good opportunities for them. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Alexander Kaiser Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 6:11 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Florida rehabilitation center question immediate responsegranted Attention List, Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to find out more information on the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. I also want to know if training at the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired is adequate or inadequate for blind students seeking independence. I would like to speak to someone who has attended the Conklin Center for the Blind. I would also like to hear from someone who Attended lighthouse of Broward . Has anyone attended Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired if someone has recently attended , I would also like to talk to you because I would also like to get oppinions on all three rehabilitation centers from people with prior experiences at these three centers. I can be contacted off list by email and cell phone and skype. My email address is AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. Thank you, Alex Kaiser ____________________________________________________________ Share photos & screenshots in seconds... TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if1 Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:40:27 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:40:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <20110601005622.20882.70893@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: I honestly think it's not a bad idea to have something to play with and keep our hands busy...especially in long NFB convention meetings! *grin* I have this little wooden carving thingie my scoutmaster gave me a few years back and I like carrying thatwith me so I can do something with my hands when all else fails. On 5/31/11, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > That's a good way to look at it. I know myself that I always want to > be doing something with my hands. I'd venture to say that, as Braille > readers, we take in more through our fingers, even using them as our > eyes in a sense. So it makes sense that we want to employ some form of > stimulation since we are not getting the visual stimulation that > sighted people get when their eyes roam around a room, or look at a > clock in a boring meeting, etc. > > On 5/31/11, Jedi wrote: >> Okay. >> >> We know that some blindisms (as they are called) are a direct result of >> blind children not getting the appropriate opportunities to move around >> that they should have gotten early on. But I also think that so-called >> blindisms can also be our version of boredisms, little self-adaptive >> behaviors that we do when we've shifted our attention. They could also >> be behaviors that we do when we're excited or overstimulated. Sighted >> people have these, too. For example, they drumb their fingers, fidget, >> shake their knees, etc. These are no more appropriate than our >> behaviors except that they are more normative. So here's a thought. >> Instead of trying to eraticate a so-called blindism, try employing some >> alternative movement. So instead of rocking, tap a foot or shake an >> ankle. My mother suggested this technique to me and it worked. >> Eventually, i found that I didn't need the alternative movement. I >> guess employing the alternative made me more aware of my behavior and >> so I stopped it on my own. But in those weird times when I am moving, I >> find that I'm shaking an ankle or something, and most sighted people >> don't think much of it because they do it, too. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >>> You make a lot of sense! I'm still trying to get rid of my >>> blindism, and sometimes I would get a little annoyed when Mom >>> always "got on my case" about it. She told me that, like it or >>> not, the world around me is mostly sighted and wrong or right, >>> they make judgments on people based on what they see. So if we >>> want to change what it means to be blind (hint hint, NFB says >>> that all the time) we need to convey that positive image about >>> blindness not only in what we say, but in what sighted people see >>> visually from us. >> >>> Chris >> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Daniel Romero >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Thu, 26 May 2011 14:27:53 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others >> >>> I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view >>> that >>> we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted >>> are not >>> used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind >>> person >>> being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a >>> person >>> thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. >>> So if >>> you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes >>> or >>> just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make >>> an >>> assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not >>> saying >>> it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a >>> skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them >>> out >>> because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label >>> on us >>> blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be >>> independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right >>> but I >>> don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative >>> conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, >>> twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own >>> clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's >>> going >>> to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall >>> right >>> behind that. Am I making sense? >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:43:48 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:43:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] To Alex Kaiser Message-ID: Hello Alex, We have now received at least 15 separate email messages from you which are all asking the same question. While your question is a good one, the excessive, repetitive emails are not appropriate for these lists. If you choose to send another copy of this message to the lists, I will recommend to our list moderator that your email address be removed from these lists. It is not clear whether or not you are a spammer, but assuming that you are not and are actually seeking information about the Florida rehabilitation centers, please wait for a response rather than bombarding the list with messages. Thank you for your consideration. Cordially, Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:29:20 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:29:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely fastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed: Rehabilatationcenter question References: Message-ID: <8711B9A5A34F4D8A921688E6BF7F829C@hometwxakonvzn> Alex, This is RJ. I'm going to put you in touch with Joyce Hildreth, Director of the Florida division of blind service. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Kaiser" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:24 PM Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely fastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed: Rehabilatationcenter question > extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% > recommended: response needed: > > Attention All Floridian blind students: > Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to discuss an extremely > important matter. I would like to find out more information on the Conklin > Center for the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind > services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually > impaired. I would like to learn about how basic the training at the > Lighthouse of broward, training at the Conklin center for the blind and > training at the Florida Devision of blind services Rehabilitation and > adjustment center for the blind and Visually Impaired is compared to the > entensity of training at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I also want to > know if I should attend one of the three centers. How are the living > quarters at the lighthouse of broward, conklin center for the Blind and at > the Florida devision of Blind services rehabilitation and adjustment > center for the blind and Visually Impaired? I am moving to Florida in > July. I am doing research to see what NFB members say about each of these > three centers. I also want to know if training at the Conklin Center for > the Blind, lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services > rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired > is adequate or inadequate for blind students seeking independence. I > would like to speak to someone who has just recently attended the Conklin > Center for the Blind. I would also like to hear from someone who just > recently Attended lighthouse of Broward . I would like to speek to > anyone who just recently attended Florida Devision of blind services > rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. > If someone has recently attended , I would also like to talk to you > because I would also like to get oppinions on all three rehabilitation > centers from people with prior experiences at these three centers. I can > be contacted off list by aim, msn IM Yahoo IM, email and cell phone and > skype. My msn ID is coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My aim ID is > coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My yahoo IM address is > weatherwiz999 at yahoo.com. My email address is > AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 > 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. > > Thank you, > Alex Kaiser > > ____________________________________________________________ > Send any screenshot to your friends in seconds... > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social > networks. > TRY IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if2 for FREE > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 01:55:45 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 19:55:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] back to school, but thinking about it, anyone in colorado? Message-ID: Hi, guys. I am thinking about going to Metro State College of Denver, CO, to study social work. Anybody know the Metro community and could tell me anything is welcome to e-mail me off list. Also, what I was wondering is if anybody has any details about the testing policy at Metro State College as FSU had a weeks-in-advance test sign up policy. Do they have accessible computers in their library? My bf told me all the great things Metro has to offer, but if there's anybody interested in telling me about that or University of Colorado Denver. Also, what places in Denver could I do my service learning? I guess if anybody could forward this to the Human Services List, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. BethSent from my iPod From serena.c.cucco at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 02:19:00 2011 From: serena.c.cucco at gmail.com (Serena Cucco) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:19:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <758CB4F6E1514FAC91206506583DFEB5@SerenaPC> Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the Haven today. It rocks! Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi guys. I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: > OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need > them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they > provide. > Apologies, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens > and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple > devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more > efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally > pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I > find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient > because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is > helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. > Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't > see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth > keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I > have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot > smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a > notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display > user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love > reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm > working on a computer. > In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I > use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. > I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to > type in class etc. > > On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: > > Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. > > For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, > do you > see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker > device, or > is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute > to your > notetaker device? Why or why not? > > Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, > why is > that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > > On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: > Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really > like the > touch screen. > I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes > and writing > documents on my BrailleNote. > Thanks, > Hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Philip S > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi all, > > I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch > screen. > How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices > adopt this > interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the > rear, or > something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and > be as > thorough as you wish. > > Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile > phones do you > use now? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 > 1%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 > 3%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co m > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 02:25:48 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:25:48 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: <758CB4F6E1514FAC91206506583DFEB5@SerenaPC> References: <758CB4F6E1514FAC91206506583DFEB5@SerenaPC> Message-ID: Serena, I'd say at least look at one...as I said, you really don't need to know where things are on the screen if you have voiceover read through the list. (although after a while you start to learn just by habbit-and this is coming from a guy who isn't really a visual or tactile learner) Although I can see why you'd want a phone to just be a phone. Makes sense to me, although I'm getting me an iphone ASAP. Best, Kirt On 5/31/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they > seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial > relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone > to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the > Haven today. It rocks! > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Julie McGinnity > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi guys. > > I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access > office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let > me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood > it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I > couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual > for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me > 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I > could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface > when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use > this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to > everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple > keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that > these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want > one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. > > I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung > Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, > incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, > and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I > like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart > phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. > > > > On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: >> OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need >> them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they >> provide. >> Apologies, >> Josh >> >> sent from my Apex >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ignasi Cambra > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens >> and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple >> devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more >> efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally >> pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I >> find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient >> because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is >> helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. >> Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't >> see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth >> keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I >> have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot >> smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a >> notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display >> user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love >> reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm >> working on a computer. >> In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I >> use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. >> I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to >> type in class etc. >> >> On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: >> >> Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. >> >> For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, >> do you >> see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker >> device, or >> is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute >> to your >> notetaker device? Why or why not? >> >> Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, >> why is >> that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Phil >> >> >> On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: >> Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really >> like the >> touch screen. >> I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes >> and writing >> documents on my BrailleNote. >> Thanks, >> Hannah >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Philip S >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> Hi all, >> >> I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch >> screen. >> How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices >> adopt this >> interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the >> rear, or >> something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and >> be as >> thorough as you wish. >> >> Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile >> phones do you >> use now? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Phil >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 >> 1%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 >> 3%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >> bra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 >> 2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co > m >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 02:37:26 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:37:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: <758CB4F6E1514FAC91206506583DFEB5@SerenaPC> Message-ID: <4de5a5f1.814de50a.4b5c.2de2@mx.google.com> Is the Haven easy to use? I am thinking of upgradeing to it my self. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:19 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the Haven today. It rocks! Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi guys. I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: > OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need > them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they > provide. > Apologies, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens > and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple > devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more > efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally > pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I > find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient > because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is > helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. > Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't > see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth > keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I > have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot > smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a > notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display > user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love > reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm > working on a computer. > In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I > use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. > I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to > type in class etc. > > On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: > > Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. > > For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, > do you > see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker > device, or > is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute > to your > notetaker device? Why or why not? > > Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, > why is > that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > > On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: > Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really > like the > touch screen. > I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes > and writing > documents on my BrailleNote. > Thanks, > Hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Philip S > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi all, > > I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch > screen. > How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices > adopt this > interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the > rear, or > something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and > be as > thorough as you wish. > > Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile > phones do you > use now? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 > 1%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 > 3%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co m > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com From serena.c.cucco at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 02:45:24 2011 From: serena.c.cucco at gmail.com (Serena Cucco) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:45:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: <4de5a5f1.814de50a.4b5c.2de2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey Rania! Oh yeah ... I can actually enter contacts using the number pad myself! You've gotta learn the correct letters that correspond to each number on the phone. Haven't tried texting yet, but I'm sure it'll be a snap! Serena P.S. What's your cell number? (off list, of course) -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail CMT Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:37 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Is the Haven easy to use? I am thinking of upgradeing to it my self. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:19 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the Haven today. It rocks! Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi guys. I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: > OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need > them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they > provide. > Apologies, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens > and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple > devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more > efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally > pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I > find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient > because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is > helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. > Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't > see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth > keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I > have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot > smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a > notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display > user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love > reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm > working on a computer. > In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I > use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. > I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to > type in class etc. > > On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: > > Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. > > For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, > do you > see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker > device, or > is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute > to your > notetaker device? Why or why not? > > Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, > why is > that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > > On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: > Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really > like the > touch screen. > I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes > and writing > documents on my BrailleNote. > Thanks, > Hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Philip S > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi all, > > I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch > screen. > How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices > adopt this > interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the > rear, or > something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and > be as > thorough as you wish. > > Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile > phones do you > use now? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 > 1%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 > 3%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co m > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 02:46:39 2011 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:46:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] To Alex Kaiser References: Message-ID: <45FC6E7C3B13474E8ED69A45F27AB1B5@hometwxakonvzn> Arielle, I've already given Alex Kiser the email adress to the Florida division of blind services. I understand you're wanting to find out Alex, but man you can't keep pestering these folks. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:43 PM Subject: [nabs-l] To Alex Kaiser > Hello Alex, > We have now received at least 15 separate email messages from you > which are all asking the same question. While your question is a good > one, the excessive, repetitive emails are not appropriate for these > lists. If you choose to send another copy of this message to the > lists, I will recommend to our list moderator that your email address > be removed from these lists. It is not clear whether or not you are a > spammer, but assuming that you are not and are actually seeking > information about the Florida rehabilitation centers, please wait for > a response rather than bombarding the list with messages. Thank you > for your consideration. > > Cordially, > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 02:53:14 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:53:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4de5a9a6.9c82e50a.2e7f.2c93@mx.google.com> When looking at it in the store before deciding to get it how do you get used to it sinse you have a short amount of time in the store? Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:45 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hey Rania! Oh yeah ... I can actually enter contacts using the number pad myself! You've gotta learn the correct letters that correspond to each number on the phone. Haven't tried texting yet, but I'm sure it'll be a snap! Serena P.S. What's your cell number? (off list, of course) -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail CMT Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:37 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Is the Haven easy to use? I am thinking of upgradeing to it my self. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:19 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the Haven today. It rocks! Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi guys. I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: > OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need > them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they > provide. > Apologies, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens > and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple > devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more > efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally > pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I > find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient > because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is > helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. > Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't > see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth > keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I > have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot > smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a > notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display > user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love > reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm > working on a computer. > In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I > use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. > I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to > type in class etc. > > On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: > > Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. > > For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, > do you > see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker > device, or > is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute > to your > notetaker device? Why or why not? > > Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, > why is > that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > > On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: > Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really > like the > touch screen. > I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes > and writing > documents on my BrailleNote. > Thanks, > Hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Philip S > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi all, > > I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch > screen. > How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices > adopt this > interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the > rear, or > something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and > be as > thorough as you wish. > > Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile > phones do you > use now? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 > 1%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 > 3%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co m > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com From serena.c.cucco at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 03:01:41 2011 From: serena.c.cucco at gmail.com (Serena Cucco) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:01:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: <4de5a9a6.9c82e50a.2e7f.2c93@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6B53C77F4CC4482A8F7E940386CC740A@SerenaPC> Ask the Verizon people to activate the "all readout" option and let you listen to it. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail CMT Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:53 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen When looking at it in the store before deciding to get it how do you get used to it sinse you have a short amount of time in the store? Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:45 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hey Rania! Oh yeah ... I can actually enter contacts using the number pad myself! You've gotta learn the correct letters that correspond to each number on the phone. Haven't tried texting yet, but I'm sure it'll be a snap! Serena P.S. What's your cell number? (off list, of course) -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail CMT Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:37 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Is the Haven easy to use? I am thinking of upgradeing to it my self. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:19 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the Haven today. It rocks! Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi guys. I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: > OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need > them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they > provide. > Apologies, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens > and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple > devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more > efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally > pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I > find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient > because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is > helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. > Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't > see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth > keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I > have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot > smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a > notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display > user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love > reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm > working on a computer. > In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I > use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. > I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to > type in class etc. > > On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: > > Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. > > For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, > do you > see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker > device, or > is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute > to your > notetaker device? Why or why not? > > Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, > why is > that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > > On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: > Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really > like the > touch screen. > I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes > and writing > documents on my BrailleNote. > Thanks, > Hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Philip S > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi all, > > I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch > screen. > How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices > adopt this > interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the > rear, or > something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and > be as > thorough as you wish. > > Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile > phones do you > use now? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 > 1%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 > 3%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co m > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 03:22:07 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:22:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: <6B53C77F4CC4482A8F7E940386CC740A@SerenaPC> References: <4de5a9a6.9c82e50a.2e7f.2c93@mx.google.com> <6B53C77F4CC4482A8F7E940386CC740A@SerenaPC> Message-ID: Hi Phil, Can you tell us a little more about your research? what is it for? what do you hope to do with what you find out? I'm simply curious, as this seems to be a rather informal survay. Aside from apple products, I have not used touch screens, but I like them just fine, when they work. about a very very small percentage of the time, I've noticed the I phone freezes and voiceover shutsdown. I have only had this happen maybe four times over the past year and some change, but it has. Aside from that, I like it alot. Buttons are a nice thing because mostly, you can find a non-visual way of trouble-shooting a problem should it come up on a phone, or notetaker, etc. Darian On 5/31/11, Serena Cucco wrote: > Ask the Verizon people to activate the "all readout" option and let you > listen to it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Rania Ismail CMT > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:53 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > When looking at it in the store before deciding to get it how do you get > used to it sinse you have a short amount of time in the store? > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Serena Cucco > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:45 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hey Rania! > > Oh yeah ... I can actually enter contacts using the number pad myself! > You've gotta learn the correct letters that correspond to each number on the > phone. Haven't tried texting yet, but I'm sure it'll be a snap! > Serena > P.S. What's your cell number? (off list, of course) > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Rania Ismail CMT > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:37 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Is the Haven easy to use? I am thinking of upgradeing to it my self. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Serena Cucco > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:19 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they > seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial > relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone > to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the > Haven today. It rocks! > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Julie McGinnity > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi guys. > > I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access > office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let > me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood > it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I > couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual > for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me > 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I > could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface > when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use > this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to > everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple > keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that > these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want > one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. > > I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung > Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, > incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, > and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I > like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart > phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. > > > > On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: >> OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need >> them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they >> provide. >> Apologies, >> Josh >> >> sent from my Apex >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ignasi Cambra > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens >> and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple >> devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more >> efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally >> pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I >> find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient >> because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is >> helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. >> Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't >> see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth >> keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I >> have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot >> smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a >> notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display >> user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love >> reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm >> working on a computer. >> In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I >> use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. >> I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to >> type in class etc. >> >> On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: >> >> Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. >> >> For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, >> do you >> see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker >> device, or >> is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute >> to your >> notetaker device? Why or why not? >> >> Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, >> why is >> that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Phil >> >> >> On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: >> Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really >> like the >> touch screen. >> I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes >> and writing >> documents on my BrailleNote. >> Thanks, >> Hannah >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Philip S >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> Hi all, >> >> I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch >> screen. >> How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices >> adopt this >> interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the >> rear, or >> something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and >> be as >> thorough as you wish. >> >> Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile >> phones do you >> use now? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Phil >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 >> 1%40gmail.c >> om >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 >> 3%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >> bra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 >> 2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co > m >> > > > -- > Julie McG > Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera > Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding > Eyes for the Blind > > "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that > everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal > life." > John 3:16 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From carlymih at earthlink.net Wed Jun 1 03:41:54 2011 From: carlymih at earthlink.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:41:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response Required:Rehabilitation center question In-Reply-To: References: <0D260C091CDF4E29ACE6F4417C77E0E8@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110531203716.01cda3b0@earthlink.net> Good evening, List, Doncha think Alexander deserves the benefit of a doubt in not hastily concluding that, anything else['s is going on but a problem with his mail program? C'mon guys, don't we celebrate sensitivity, in others? for today, Car : >This spammer should be removed from the list. > >On 5/31/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > Alexander, > > The message was blank > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alexander Kaiser > > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:35 PM > > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response > > Required:Rehabilitation center question > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Send your photos by email in seconds... > > TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3 > > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks. > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 04:04:37 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:04:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response Required:Rehabilitation center question In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110531203716.01cda3b0@earthlink.net> References: <0D260C091CDF4E29ACE6F4417C77E0E8@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20110531203716.01cda3b0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Carly, Well, the messages each had slightly different subjects and message texts. If each message was a verbaitum copy of all the others, I'd agree with you...but as it stands now there are enough variations to make it seem like it's not a simple program malfunction. Of course, if I'm wrong, I offer Alexander my sincere apologies. And anyway, even if my program was acting up and sending 15 messages that are almost identical, I'd hope the list owners would have the good sense to remove my email address until I sorted it all out. No sense spamming everyone's inboxes for nothing. Warmly, Kirt On 5/31/11, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > > Good evening, List, > > Doncha think Alexander deserves the benefit of a doubt > in not hastily concluding that, anything else['s is going on but a > problem with his mail program? > C'mon guys, don't we celebrate sensitivity, in others? > for today, > Car : >>This spammer should be removed from the list. >> >>On 5/31/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> > Alexander, >> > The message was blank >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Alexander Kaiser >> > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:35 PM >> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response >> > Required:Rehabilitation center question >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________ >> > Send your photos by email in seconds... >> > TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3 >> > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social >> > networks. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 04:15:56 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 00:15:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response Required:Rehabilitation center question In-Reply-To: References: <0D260C091CDF4E29ACE6F4417C77E0E8@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20110531203716.01cda3b0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I totally agree. And, I know this person, so I have reason to believe it is intentional. I wasn't trying to start anything, and I don't go around flaming people for no reason. But it was frustrating, to say the least, to have to go through my inbox and clean up all this crap. On 6/1/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Carly, > Well, the messages each had slightly different subjects and message > texts. If each message was a verbaitum copy of all the others, I'd > agree with you...but as it stands now there are enough variations to > make it seem like it's not a simple program malfunction. Of course, > if I'm wrong, I offer Alexander my sincere apologies. And anyway, > even if my program was acting up and sending 15 messages that are > almost identical, I'd hope the list owners would have the good sense > to remove my email address until I sorted it all out. No sense > spamming everyone's inboxes for nothing. > Warmly, > Kirt > > On 5/31/11, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> >> Good evening, List, >> >> Doncha think Alexander deserves the benefit of a doubt >> in not hastily concluding that, anything else['s is going on but a >> problem with his mail program? >> C'mon guys, don't we celebrate sensitivity, in others? >> for today, >> Car : >>>This spammer should be removed from the list. >>> >>>On 5/31/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> > Alexander, >>> > The message was blank >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Alexander Kaiser >>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:35 PM >>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response >>> > Required:Rehabilitation center question >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ____________________________________________________________ >>> > Send your photos by email in seconds... >>> > TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3 >>> > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social >>> > networks. >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From philso1003 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 04:35:55 2011 From: philso1003 at gmail.com (Philip S) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 00:35:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: References: <4de5a9a6.9c82e50a.2e7f.2c93@mx.google.com> <6B53C77F4CC4482A8F7E940386CC740A@SerenaPC> Message-ID: Thanks guys for this very interesting discussion. I am learning a lot. Please keep these comments flowing! smile Tina, your universal keypad accessory idea sounds so cool. Can you describe more what you have in mind? I'm picturing a Braille keyboard or a QWERTY keyboard with a Braille display? Or something else? Darian, a little about myself. I'm legally blind and a JAWS user myself. I'm a graduate student and am working with a professor to carry out a more formal survey research on this topic starting this summer through end of the year. After this is done, I also plan to work with a neuroscience professor to look at what types of user interface are most natural for blind people, for example what is the most natural way for blind people to understand graphs and statistics? Is it tactile? or is it something completely different, not even graph. So when the formal survey comes out this summer, hopefully you guys will give me your support and take the time to fill out that survey! smile Phil On 5/31/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi Phil, > Can you tell us a little more about your research? what is it for? > what do you hope to do with what you find out? I'm simply curious, as > this seems to be a rather informal survay. > > Aside from apple products, I have not used touch screens, but I > like them just fine, when they work. about a very very small > percentage of the time, I've noticed the I phone freezes and voiceover > shutsdown. I have only had this happen maybe four times over the past > year and some change, but it has. > Aside from that, I like it alot. > > Buttons are a nice thing because mostly, you can find a non-visual > way of trouble-shooting a problem should it come up on a phone, or > notetaker, etc. > > Darian > > > On 5/31/11, Serena Cucco wrote: >> Ask the Verizon people to activate the "all readout" option and let you >> listen to it. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Rania Ismail CMT >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:53 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> When looking at it in the store before deciding to get it how do you get >> used to it sinse you have a short amount of time in the store? >> Rania, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Serena Cucco >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:45 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> Hey Rania! >> >> Oh yeah ... I can actually enter contacts using the number pad myself! >> You've gotta learn the correct letters that correspond to each number on >> the >> phone. Haven't tried texting yet, but I'm sure it'll be a snap! >> Serena >> P.S. What's your cell number? (off list, of course) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Rania Ismail CMT >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:37 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> Is the Haven easy to use? I am thinking of upgradeing to it my self. >> Rania, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Serena Cucco >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:19 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they >> seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial >> relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my >> phone >> to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got >> the >> Haven today. It rocks! >> >> Serena >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Julie McGinnity >> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >> >> Hi guys. >> >> I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access >> office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let >> me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood >> it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I >> couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual >> for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me >> 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I >> could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface >> when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use >> this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to >> everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple >> keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that >> these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want >> one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. >> >> I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung >> Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, >> incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, >> and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I >> like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart >> phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. >> >> >> >> On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: >>> OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need >>> them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they >>> provide. >>> Apologies, >>> Josh >>> >>> sent from my Apex >>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Ignasi Cambra >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >>> >>> There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens >>> and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple >>> devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more >>> efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally >>> pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I >>> find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient >>> because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is >>> helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. >>> Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't >>> see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth >>> keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I >>> have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot >>> smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a >>> notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display >>> user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love >>> reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm >>> working on a computer. >>> In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I >>> use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. >>> I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to >>> type in class etc. >>> >>> On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: >>> >>> Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. >>> >>> For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, >>> do you >>> see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker >>> device, or >>> is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute >>> to your >>> notetaker device? Why or why not? >>> >>> Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, >>> why is >>> that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: >>> Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really >>> like the >>> touch screen. >>> I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes >>> and writing >>> documents on my BrailleNote. >>> Thanks, >>> Hannah >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Philip S >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch >>> screen. >>> How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices >>> adopt this >>> interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the >>> rear, or >>> something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and >>> be as >>> thorough as you wish. >>> >>> Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile >>> phones do you >>> use now? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 >>> 1%40gmail.c >>> om >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 >>> 3%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >>> bra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 >>> 2%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co >> m >>> >> >> >> -- >> Julie McG >> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera >> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding >> Eyes for the Blind >> >> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that >> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal >> life." >> John 3:16 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. > > — Robert Byrne > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 04:38:29 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 22:38:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response Required:Rehabilitation center question In-Reply-To: References: <0D260C091CDF4E29ACE6F4417C77E0E8@OwnerPC> <7.0.1.0.2.20110531203716.01cda3b0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: man...I can't help wondering if he's really named after an ancient emperor and a German Kaiser? I want a cool name like that! On 5/31/11, Desiree Oudinot wrote: > I totally agree. And, I know this person, so I have reason to believe > it is intentional. I wasn't trying to start anything, and I don't go > around flaming people for no reason. But it was frustrating, to say > the least, to have to go through my inbox and clean up all this crap. > > On 6/1/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> Carly, >> Well, the messages each had slightly different subjects and message >> texts. If each message was a verbaitum copy of all the others, I'd >> agree with you...but as it stands now there are enough variations to >> make it seem like it's not a simple program malfunction. Of course, >> if I'm wrong, I offer Alexander my sincere apologies. And anyway, >> even if my program was acting up and sending 15 messages that are >> almost identical, I'd hope the list owners would have the good sense >> to remove my email address until I sorted it all out. No sense >> spamming everyone's inboxes for nothing. >> Warmly, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/31/11, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> >>> >>> Good evening, List, >>> >>> Doncha think Alexander deserves the benefit of a doubt >>> in not hastily concluding that, anything else['s is going on but a >>> problem with his mail program? >>> C'mon guys, don't we celebrate sensitivity, in others? >>> for today, >>> Car : >>>>This spammer should be removed from the list. >>>> >>>>On 5/31/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> > Alexander, >>>> > The message was blank >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Alexander Kaiser >>>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:35 PM >>>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Extremely urgent extremely fast response >>>> > Required:Rehabilitation center question >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ____________________________________________________________ >>>> > Send your photos by email in seconds... >>>> > TRY FREE IM TOOLPACK at http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3 >>>> > Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social >>>> > networks. >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 06:07:17 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 02:07:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4de57273.814de50a.5d67.21f2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3114DB38-4352-4DF1-9458-D2AD178E0861@gmail.com> The United States is the big exception here. In most countries one can just by iPhones from Apple and use them with whatever carrier they want. Also, I remind you that if you can buy an iPhone from someone you can try jailbraking and unlocking it, which is actually legal. I bought an iPhone 4 with AT&T last summer and I'm using it happily with my carrier here in Spain. Whenever I'm in the US I just switch sim cards. On May 31, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Chris, > The iphone isn't even close to universally provided by carriers. If > it were, I'd have a lot less of a gripe with t-mobile. *smile* I > think sprint doesn't carry it either-that's two of the top 5 carriers > in the USA. I actually think the only ones that do carry it are > Varison and at&t...so maybe my t-mobile problem will go away in a year > or so. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > On 5/31/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> NFB discount? >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:54:15 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >> >> But you can't get an iphone from T-Mobile...so I'm stuck. >> >> On 5/25/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> There are many Android phones available both on Verizon and >> AT&T, and you >> can also get an iPhone from either carrier. >> On May 25, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> >> AT and T? I thought the Android was only for Verizon phones. As >> far as I >> know, the Android is semiaccessible, but doesn't read some >> features. But >> if you have AT and T already, I would totally suggest getting >> the iPhone! >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities >> motto) >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:40:45 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >> >> Hi all: >> Just wondering, >> my time is coming for a chance to upgrade on AT&T and I am >> interested in >> the Android platform. >> What experiences have you had with the platform/screenreader? >> Is TalkBack any good? >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> Jorge >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >> bra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >> ydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 07:39:55 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 01:39:55 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility In-Reply-To: <3114DB38-4352-4DF1-9458-D2AD178E0861@gmail.com> References: <4de57273.814de50a.5d67.21f2@mx.google.com> <3114DB38-4352-4DF1-9458-D2AD178E0861@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ignasi, But you aren't locked into a contract wth another company, are you? On 6/1/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > The United States is the big exception here. In most countries one can just > by iPhones from Apple and use them with whatever carrier they want. Also, I > remind you that if you can buy an iPhone from someone you can try > jailbraking and unlocking it, which is actually legal. I bought an iPhone 4 > with AT&T last summer and I'm using it happily with my carrier here in > Spain. Whenever I'm in the US I just switch sim cards. > On May 31, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Chris, >> The iphone isn't even close to universally provided by carriers. If >> it were, I'd have a lot less of a gripe with t-mobile. *smile* I >> think sprint doesn't carry it either-that's two of the top 5 carriers >> in the USA. I actually think the only ones that do carry it are >> Varison and at&t...so maybe my t-mobile problem will go away in a year >> or so. >> Respectfully, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/31/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> NFB discount? >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Kirt Manwaring >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:54:15 -0600 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>> >>> But you can't get an iphone from T-Mobile...so I'm stuck. >>> >>> On 5/25/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> There are many Android phones available both on Verizon and >>> AT&T, and you >>> can also get an iPhone from either carrier. >>> On May 25, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>> >>> AT and T? I thought the Android was only for Verizon phones. As >>> far as I >>> know, the Android is semiaccessible, but doesn't read some >>> features. But >>> if you have AT and T already, I would totally suggest getting >>> the iPhone! >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities >>> motto) >>> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Jorge Paez >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >> Date sent: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:40:45 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>> >>> Hi all: >>> Just wondering, >>> my time is coming for a chance to upgrade on AT&T and I am >>> interested in >>> the Android platform. >>> What experiences have you had with the platform/screenreader? >>> Is TalkBack any good? >>> >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >>> bra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>> ydude%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 08:54:21 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 04:54:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4de57273.814de50a.5d67.21f2@mx.google.com> <3114DB38-4352-4DF1-9458-D2AD178E0861@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47DB81B3-5D57-4FF6-9A32-11A7B20F8B6A@gmail.com> I travel a lot between the US and Europe, so I have a contract with AT&T. All I'm saying is that I use my AT&T iPhone with my spanish carrier when I'm here. I unlocked it and it works very well. I also have several friends who use unlocked iPhones on T-Mobile and they don't seem to have any problems. In this way, I don't need to sign a contract with the Spanish carrier and I can cancel my line or switch companies whenever I want. If you look on Ebay or Craigslist you can probably find AT&T iPhones that you can buy. Just unlock it and use it! Not all models at all firmware versions can be unlocked though, so you do need to know what you're buying and what you're doing. On Jun 1, 2011, at 3:39 AM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Ignasi, > But you aren't locked into a contract wth another company, are you? > > On 6/1/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> The United States is the big exception here. In most countries one can just >> by iPhones from Apple and use them with whatever carrier they want. Also, I >> remind you that if you can buy an iPhone from someone you can try >> jailbraking and unlocking it, which is actually legal. I bought an iPhone 4 >> with AT&T last summer and I'm using it happily with my carrier here in >> Spain. Whenever I'm in the US I just switch sim cards. >> On May 31, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> Chris, >>> The iphone isn't even close to universally provided by carriers. If >>> it were, I'd have a lot less of a gripe with t-mobile. *smile* I >>> think sprint doesn't carry it either-that's two of the top 5 carriers >>> in the USA. I actually think the only ones that do carry it are >>> Varison and at&t...so maybe my t-mobile problem will go away in a year >>> or so. >>> Respectfully, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 5/31/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> NFB discount? >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>>> >>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:54:15 -0600 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>>> >>>> But you can't get an iphone from T-Mobile...so I'm stuck. >>>> >>>> On 5/25/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> There are many Android phones available both on Verizon and >>>> AT&T, and you >>>> can also get an iPhone from either carrier. >>>> On May 25, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>> >>>> AT and T? I thought the Android was only for Verizon phones. As >>>> far as I >>>> know, the Android is semiaccessible, but doesn't read some >>>> features. But >>>> if you have AT and T already, I would totally suggest getting >>>> the iPhone! >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities >>>> motto) >>>> >>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Jorge Paez >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>> Date sent: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:40:45 -0400 >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>>> >>>> Hi all: >>>> Just wondering, >>>> my time is coming for a chance to upgrade on AT&T and I am >>>> interested in >>>> the Android platform. >>>> What experiences have you had with the platform/screenreader? >>>> Is TalkBack any good? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >>>> bra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>>> ydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jun 1 10:15:20 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 05:15:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely fastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed: Rehabilitation question In-Reply-To: <4de5961b.8c00e50a.6f46.265b@mx.google.com> References: <4de5961b.8c00e50a.6f46.265b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: He has been written to, and placed on moderated status until this stops, so everybody, please ignore. David Andrews, List Owner At 08:29 PM 5/31/2011, you wrote: >Hi, >This has come to the list multiple times. As others have said, you >may have an issue with your email program. You may want to check that. >Thank you, >Josh > >sent from my Apex >Email:joshkart12 at gmail.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alexander Kaiser" To: Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:24:40 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] extremely urgent extremely important extremely >fastResponse is 100% recommended: response needed: >Rehabilatationcenter question > >extremely urgent extremely important extremely fast Response is 100% >recommended: response needed: > >Attention All Floridian blind students: >Hi my name is Alexander Kaiser. I would like to discuss an >extremely important matter. I would like to find out more >information on the Conklin Center for the Blind, lighthouse of >Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services rehabilitation and >adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired. I would like >to learn about how basic the training at the Lighthouse of broward, >training at the Conklin center for the blind and training at the >Florida Devision of blind services Rehabilitation and adjustment >center for the blind and Visually Impaired is compared to the >entensity of training at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I also >want to know if I should attend one of the three centers. How are >the living quarters at the lighthouse of broward, conklin center for >the Blind and at the Florida devision of Blind services >rehabilitation and adjustment center for the blind and Visually >Impaired? I am moving to Florida in July. I am doing research to >see what NFB members say about each of these three centers. I also >want to know if training at the Conklin Center for the Blind, >lighthouse of Broward, and Florida Devision of blind services >rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind and Visually impaired is >adequate or inadequate for blind students seeking independence. >I would like to speak to someone who has just recently attended the >Conklin Center for the Blind. I would also like to hear from >someone who just recently Attended lighthouse of Broward . I would >like to speek to anyone who just recently attended Florida Devision >of blind services rehabilitation and adjustment center for the Blind >and Visually impaired. If someone has recently attended , I would >also like to talk to you because I would also like to get oppinions >on all three rehabilitation centers from people with prior >experiences at these three centers. I can be contacted off list by >aim, msn IM Yahoo IM, email and cell phone and skype. My msn ID is >coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My aim ID is >coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com. My yahoo IM address is >weatherwiz999 at yahoo.com. My email address is >AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com. My cell phone number is 9 7 3 5 2 5 >8 0 9 6. My skype ID is Alexander.the.great1990. > >Thank you, >Alex Kaiser From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 12:46:18 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 08:46:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: <6B53C77F4CC4482A8F7E940386CC740A@SerenaPC> Message-ID: <4de634a6.1c4de50a.2713.43fc@mx.google.com> Ok thanks. Send me an email off list so we can talk more about this. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 11:02 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Ask the Verizon people to activate the "all readout" option and let you listen to it. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail CMT Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:53 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen When looking at it in the store before deciding to get it how do you get used to it sinse you have a short amount of time in the store? Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:45 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hey Rania! Oh yeah ... I can actually enter contacts using the number pad myself! You've gotta learn the correct letters that correspond to each number on the phone. Haven't tried texting yet, but I'm sure it'll be a snap! Serena P.S. What's your cell number? (off list, of course) -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Ismail CMT Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:37 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Is the Haven easy to use? I am thinking of upgradeing to it my self. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:19 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Although I have never seen an iphone or any other touch screen phone, they seem too visual for me from the way you guys are describing them. Spacial relationships aren't my thing. Also, as someone else said, I want my phone to be simply that, a phone, not a substitute for a computer. I just got the Haven today. It rocks! Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi guys. I find this topic very interesting. A few months ago our access office was given an iPad to try out, so our assistive tech person let me and a friend use one. My friend had it first, and she understood it almost immediately, but I hated the thing. I tried it out, but I couldn't understand the interface. The lay out was just too visual for me. I kept hitting the wrong thing on the screen, and it took me 10 minutes just to type my name. I suppose that with practice, I could get used to it, but I don't want to have to relearn an interface when I already understand the technology I'm using. In order to use this device, you need to understand where everything is in relation to everything else on the screen. You can't just memorize a couple keystrokes. I know this works for people, and I think it's great that these things can be made accessible; however, I personally do not want one and hope that using keys and buttons will always be an option. I use a braille note Apex, and I really love it. I have a Samsung Haven because I had a bad experience with a smart phone, which, incidentally I lost at last year's convention. :) I love my Haven, and I really don't want another smart phone in the near future. I like my cell phones to be phones. I also don't think that smart phones will replace braille notes, at least not for a while. On 5/31/11, Josh Gregory wrote: > OK, forget what I said about not needing notetakers, we will need > them for the braille keyboards and the accessibility they > provide. > Apologies, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ignasi Cambra To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 13:28:08 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > There are two types of touch screens: accessible touch screens > and inaccessible touch screens. It's as simple as that. Apple > devices are accessible and in my opinion there's nothing more > efficient for a blind person to use. The interface is generally > pretty consistent across applications and things just work. I > find the small touch screen on the iPhone extremely convenient > because I can operate it with one hand most of the time, which is > helpful when I'm walking with my guide dog or anything like that. > Everyone has different opinions on this,but I personally don't > see the need of a notetaker. There are very small bluetooth > keyboards out there which unfold and are very nice to type on. I > have one of those that I use with my iphone, and it's a lot > smaller than any notetaker and does lots of things which a > notetaker can't do. I do think that if I was a braille display > user I would probably have a different opinion on this. I love > reading books in Braille etc, but I just don't need it when I'm > working on a computer. > In a nutshell, I use my iPhone by itself most of the time, and I > use the keyboard if I need to take notes or write long documents. > I can just keep my phone in my pocket and use the keyboard to > type in class etc. > > On May 31, 2011, at 11:35 AM, Philip S wrote: > > Thanks guys for your feedback. Please keep 'em coming. > > For those of you who have both notetaker device and SmartPhone, > do you > see your SmartPhone taking over the role of your notetaker > device, or > is your SmartPhone simply an addition rather than a substitute > to your > notetaker device? Why or why not? > > Josh, you said iPod's touch-screen is easier than SmartPhone, > why is > that? Are you referring to iPhone or Android? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > > On 5/31/11, Hannah Furney wrote: > Hi. I received an Ipod Touch in February as a gift. I really > like the > touch screen. > I also have a BrailleNote Classic. I really like taking notes > and writing > documents on my BrailleNote. > Thanks, > Hannah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Philip S > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen > > Hi all, > > I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch > screen. > How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices > adopt this > interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the > rear, or > something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and > be as > thorough as you wish. > > Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile > phones do you > use now? > > Thanks. > > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hannahgf1 > 1%40gmail.c > om > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso100 > 3%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam > bra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co m > -- Julie McG Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life." John 3:16 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 13:25:27 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 06:25:27 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nfbc-info] iphone users! please take this quick survey In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings, Just passing this along for those who may be interestedin participating ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Shiri Azenkot Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:19:18 -0700 Subject: [Nfbc-info] iphone users! please take this quick survey To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List , nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org, nfbc-info at nfbnet.org, wcb-l Cc: Kyle K Rector Hi everyone, I'm a PhD student at the University of Washington researching accessibility. If you are a blind or low-vision iPhone user, please take a few minutes to fill out this survey about iPhone security. Results will be used in our research and be kept anonymous. On Saturday, June 4, I will randomly select a participant who will receive a $30 gift card to Amazon.com. Here's the link to the survey: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDRncVpKVGFRQXNXaXZDU25UNTVNS1E6MQ Thank you for your help! Shiri Azenkot _______________________________________________ Nfbc-info mailing list Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbc-info: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 16:15:51 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 10:15:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility In-Reply-To: <47DB81B3-5D57-4FF6-9A32-11A7B20F8B6A@gmail.com> References: <4de57273.814de50a.5d67.21f2@mx.google.com> <3114DB38-4352-4DF1-9458-D2AD178E0861@gmail.com> <47DB81B3-5D57-4FF6-9A32-11A7B20F8B6A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ignasi or anyone who knows, How do you unlock an iphone? I don't want to fiddle around before I understand exactly what's supposed to happen. On 6/1/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I travel a lot between the US and Europe, so I have a contract with AT&T. > All I'm saying is that I use my AT&T iPhone with my spanish carrier when I'm > here. I unlocked it and it works very well. I also have several friends who > use unlocked iPhones on T-Mobile and they don't seem to have any problems. > In this way, I don't need to sign a contract with the Spanish carrier and I > can cancel my line or switch companies whenever I want. If you look on Ebay > or Craigslist you can probably find AT&T iPhones that you can buy. Just > unlock it and use it! Not all models at all firmware versions can be > unlocked though, so you do need to know what you're buying and what you're > doing. > On Jun 1, 2011, at 3:39 AM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> Ignasi, >> But you aren't locked into a contract wth another company, are you? >> >> On 6/1/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>> The United States is the big exception here. In most countries one can >>> just >>> by iPhones from Apple and use them with whatever carrier they want. Also, >>> I >>> remind you that if you can buy an iPhone from someone you can try >>> jailbraking and unlocking it, which is actually legal. I bought an iPhone >>> 4 >>> with AT&T last summer and I'm using it happily with my carrier here in >>> Spain. Whenever I'm in the US I just switch sim cards. >>> On May 31, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Chris, >>>> The iphone isn't even close to universally provided by carriers. If >>>> it were, I'd have a lot less of a gripe with t-mobile. *smile* I >>>> think sprint doesn't carry it either-that's two of the top 5 carriers >>>> in the USA. I actually think the only ones that do carry it are >>>> Varison and at&t...so maybe my t-mobile problem will go away in a year >>>> or so. >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Kirt >>>> >>>> On 5/31/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>>> NFB discount? >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>>>> >>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:54:15 -0600 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>>>> >>>>> But you can't get an iphone from T-Mobile...so I'm stuck. >>>>> >>>>> On 5/25/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>> There are many Android phones available both on Verizon and >>>>> AT&T, and you >>>>> can also get an iPhone from either carrier. >>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>>> >>>>> AT and T? I thought the Android was only for Verizon phones. As >>>>> far as I >>>>> know, the Android is semiaccessible, but doesn't read some >>>>> features. But >>>>> if you have AT and T already, I would totally suggest getting >>>>> the iPhone! >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities >>>>> motto) >>>>> >>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:40:45 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>>>> >>>>> Hi all: >>>>> Just wondering, >>>>> my time is coming for a chance to upgrade on AT&T and I am >>>>> interested in >>>>> the Android platform. >>>>> What experiences have you had with the platform/screenreader? >>>>> Is TalkBack any good? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> Jorge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >>>>> bra%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>>>> ydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 16:51:45 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 12:51:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility In-Reply-To: References: <4de57273.814de50a.5d67.21f2@mx.google.com> <3114DB38-4352-4DF1-9458-D2AD178E0861@gmail.com> <47DB81B3-5D57-4FF6-9A32-11A7B20F8B6A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5044BC24-1425-41B6-AA6C-324082BF9448@gmail.com> Write me off list. On Jun 1, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Ignasi or anyone who knows, > How do you unlock an iphone? I don't want to fiddle around before I > understand exactly what's supposed to happen. > > On 6/1/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >> I travel a lot between the US and Europe, so I have a contract with AT&T. >> All I'm saying is that I use my AT&T iPhone with my spanish carrier when I'm >> here. I unlocked it and it works very well. I also have several friends who >> use unlocked iPhones on T-Mobile and they don't seem to have any problems. >> In this way, I don't need to sign a contract with the Spanish carrier and I >> can cancel my line or switch companies whenever I want. If you look on Ebay >> or Craigslist you can probably find AT&T iPhones that you can buy. Just >> unlock it and use it! Not all models at all firmware versions can be >> unlocked though, so you do need to know what you're buying and what you're >> doing. >> On Jun 1, 2011, at 3:39 AM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> Ignasi, >>> But you aren't locked into a contract wth another company, are you? >>> >>> On 6/1/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>> The United States is the big exception here. In most countries one can >>>> just >>>> by iPhones from Apple and use them with whatever carrier they want. Also, >>>> I >>>> remind you that if you can buy an iPhone from someone you can try >>>> jailbraking and unlocking it, which is actually legal. I bought an iPhone >>>> 4 >>>> with AT&T last summer and I'm using it happily with my carrier here in >>>> Spain. Whenever I'm in the US I just switch sim cards. >>>> On May 31, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chris, >>>>> The iphone isn't even close to universally provided by carriers. If >>>>> it were, I'd have a lot less of a gripe with t-mobile. *smile* I >>>>> think sprint doesn't carry it either-that's two of the top 5 carriers >>>>> in the USA. I actually think the only ones that do carry it are >>>>> Varison and at&t...so maybe my t-mobile problem will go away in a year >>>>> or so. >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Kirt >>>>> >>>>> On 5/31/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>>>> NFB discount? >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>>>>> >>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:54:15 -0600 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>>>>> >>>>>> But you can't get an iphone from T-Mobile...so I'm stuck. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/25/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: >>>>>> There are many Android phones available both on Verizon and >>>>>> AT&T, and you >>>>>> can also get an iPhone from either carrier. >>>>>> On May 25, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> AT and T? I thought the Android was only for Verizon phones. As >>>>>> far as I >>>>>> know, the Android is semiaccessible, but doesn't read some >>>>>> features. But >>>>>> if you have AT and T already, I would totally suggest getting >>>>>> the iPhone! >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities >>>>>> motto) >>>>>> >>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Jorge Paez >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:40:45 -0400 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Android and Mobile Accessibility >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all: >>>>>> Just wondering, >>>>>> my time is coming for a chance to upgrade on AT&T and I am >>>>>> interested in >>>>>> the Android platform. >>>>>> What experiences have you had with the platform/screenreader? >>>>>> Is TalkBack any good? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jorge >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicam >>>>>> bra%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>> info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >>>>>> ydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 19:04:30 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:04:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 Message-ID: Hello, all, I recently installed AIM (AOL Instant messenger) 7.5, which is supposed to be compatible with JAWS 12. However, I have discovered a minor accessibility glitch: JAWS does not always speak incoming messages consistently during a conversation. Specifically, when a new message arrives, JAWS tends to repeat the previously sent message first, after which it will either stop or speak the new message. This does not make the program unuseable by any means, as I can always tab over to the conversation history and review any incoming IM's, but I find it a bit annoying and less user-friendly than the previous versions. Has anyone encountered this problem? Is there a setting I can adjust to fix this, or is this just the reality of how JAWS behaves with the new software? Any tips/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks! Katie From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 1 19:09:28 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 12:09:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel 2010 Question Message-ID: <027201cc208f$6e8390f0$6b01a8c0@server> Hello, We have just switched from Office 2002 to Office 2010. In the 2002 version of Excel, you could use the cursor keys to navigate from one cell to another. But when Excel 2010 is opened, we find that Jaws is not announcing the cell name or any of its contents when we attempt to navigate with the cursor keys. To be clear, it is actually moving from cell to cell, and we are able to type text in the cells just fine, but Jaws is not announcing the cell or its contents. What should we be doing in order to get Jaws to speak as we navigate from cell to cell with the cursor keys? I appreciate your assistance, Dennis From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 19:14:15 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:14:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33071891-5E3F-40CA-A2B3-7EF5119C5E63@gmail.com> Well, Katie, I have an AIM that doesn't read the incoming messages. Try VO, and you'll get the same thing on an Ipod or Iphone. Anyway, I have JAWS 10, and to answer your questions, I think it's just the way JAWS works. I had scripts installed, but they just tell me who's online and who's offline. Now, I have an AIM for Ipod, and it works, but very much the same way. Voiceover is amazing! Beth Sent from my iPod On Jun 1, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > Hello, all, > I recently installed AIM (AOL Instant messenger) 7.5, which is > supposed to be compatible with JAWS 12. However, I have discovered a > minor accessibility glitch: JAWS does not always speak incoming > messages consistently during a conversation. Specifically, when a new > message arrives, JAWS tends to repeat the previously sent message > first, after which it will either stop or speak the new message. This > does not make the program unuseable by any means, as I can always tab > over to the conversation history and review any incoming IM's, but I > find it a bit annoying and less user-friendly than the previous > versions. Has anyone encountered this problem? Is there a setting I > can adjust to fix this, or is this just the reality of how JAWS > behaves with the new software? Any tips/suggestions would be much > appreciated. Thanks! > Katie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From turtlepower17 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 19:22:51 2011 From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:22:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 In-Reply-To: <33071891-5E3F-40CA-A2B3-7EF5119C5E63@gmail.com> References: <33071891-5E3F-40CA-A2B3-7EF5119C5E63@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I went back to Aim 6.9 because when I tried to use 7.5 with Jaws 12, when my focus was on the conversation window, Jaws would freeze, often for a full minute or more, and I would have to wait for it to get its act together before I could read messages. Even if I did shift tab to get to the conversation history, it wouldn't speak, and I had to wait. It was annoying, so I went back to 6.9. It no longer kicks you off for not upgrading to the latest version, either like it used to do about a year or so ago. On 6/1/11, Beth wrote: > Well, Katie, I have an AIM that doesn't read the incoming messages. Try VO, > and you'll get the same thing on an Ipod or Iphone. Anyway, I have JAWS 10, > and to answer your questions, I think it's just the way JAWS works. I had > scripts installed, but they just tell me who's online and who's offline. > Now, I have an AIM for Ipod, and it works, but very much the same way. > Voiceover is amazing! > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 1, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > >> Hello, all, >> I recently installed AIM (AOL Instant messenger) 7.5, which is >> supposed to be compatible with JAWS 12. However, I have discovered a >> minor accessibility glitch: JAWS does not always speak incoming >> messages consistently during a conversation. Specifically, when a new >> message arrives, JAWS tends to repeat the previously sent message >> first, after which it will either stop or speak the new message. This >> does not make the program unuseable by any means, as I can always tab >> over to the conversation history and review any incoming IM's, but I >> find it a bit annoying and less user-friendly than the previous >> versions. Has anyone encountered this problem? Is there a setting I >> can adjust to fix this, or is this just the reality of how JAWS >> behaves with the new software? Any tips/suggestions would be much >> appreciated. Thanks! >> Katie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 19:50:25 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:50:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C51CDAB-5474-4B73-A202-33771EE5EEB0@gmail.com> You can always try to use one of the many instant messaging programs compatible with AIM. I don't use Windows, but I'm sure there are many of them. I don't know how accessible they are though. On Jun 1, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > Hello, all, > I recently installed AIM (AOL Instant messenger) 7.5, which is > supposed to be compatible with JAWS 12. However, I have discovered a > minor accessibility glitch: JAWS does not always speak incoming > messages consistently during a conversation. Specifically, when a new > message arrives, JAWS tends to repeat the previously sent message > first, after which it will either stop or speak the new message. This > does not make the program unuseable by any means, as I can always tab > over to the conversation history and review any incoming IM's, but I > find it a bit annoying and less user-friendly than the previous > versions. Has anyone encountered this problem? Is there a setting I > can adjust to fix this, or is this just the reality of how JAWS > behaves with the new software? Any tips/suggestions would be much > appreciated. Thanks! > Katie > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 20:30:32 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 16:30:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math-to-Speech technology project Message-ID: <4de6a187.0d41340a.58e8.4112@mx.google.com> I'm a little confused here. How's this going to work, is it a dictation software like DragonSpeak, or is it like a screen reader? Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Serena - The current project is focused on Algebra 1; it is too soon to say what a future project may address. Thanks for the suggestion, though; I'll keep it in mind, and I've already passed it along to the researchers. Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D. Assistant Director Office of Disability Policy, ETS phone: 609-683-2984 fax: 609-683-2220 Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:36:04 -0400 From: "Serena Cucco" References: <3C51CDAB-5474-4B73-A202-33771EE5EEB0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Does anyone know where to get the latest pre-configured version of Miranda? I did use that for a long time, but when I bought my new computer I couldn't get the old one to work properly, not to mention it was having a lot of problems on my old computer too, crashing all the time and stuff. The Facebook plugin had also stopped working. But if anyone can provide me with the version that's configured for screen readers, I'd really appreciate it. On 6/1/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > You can always try to use one of the many instant messaging programs > compatible with AIM. I don't use Windows, but I'm sure there are many of > them. I don't know how accessible they are though. > On Jun 1, 2011, at 3:04 PM, Katie Wang wrote: > >> Hello, all, >> I recently installed AIM (AOL Instant messenger) 7.5, which is >> supposed to be compatible with JAWS 12. However, I have discovered a >> minor accessibility glitch: JAWS does not always speak incoming >> messages consistently during a conversation. Specifically, when a new >> message arrives, JAWS tends to repeat the previously sent message >> first, after which it will either stop or speak the new message. This >> does not make the program unuseable by any means, as I can always tab >> over to the conversation history and review any incoming IM's, but I >> find it a bit annoying and less user-friendly than the previous >> versions. Has anyone encountered this problem? Is there a setting I >> can adjust to fix this, or is this just the reality of how JAWS >> behaves with the new software? Any tips/suggestions would be much >> appreciated. Thanks! >> Katie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com > From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Wed Jun 1 22:02:06 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 17:02:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jedi and others, I agree with you. Movement is not necessarily a result of "blindisms." While some motion- in anyone, disabled or not- is odd and even inappropriate, as human beings, we move. It would be odd for a person to appear like a stone statue. Before I lost my vision, I was a dancer-- like ballet and all that jazz! *grin* So naturally, movement is a part of my entire being. I tend to literally tap dance when standing, and I'm always doing things like tapping or drumming my fingers on surfaces, or swinging my leg when crossing it. When bored, I also tend to do small ballet exercises with my feet. And when I hear music, well, I just gotta dance! *giggle* I'm always aware of my body and what I do with it, and of course, I understand that there is a time and place for everything. Tap dancing while waiting in line to buy tickets for a movie is okay. Tapping down the aisle during a funeral wake may be a bit inappropriate! Having been sighted for 22 years, I also respond visually to things like looking in the direction of sound, or turning my head or eyes to follow someone or something. Most the time I can not visually see, but I still respond as though I do. It is learned behavior, which anyone can learn, but obviously if you can't see, someone must instruct. It is an instinctive thing though. In fact, all movement is instinctive, but some are more uninhibited than others in their expressions and movement. So don't assume every motion you make is wrong or out of place. And if you got the music in you, just dance! BP Message: 14 Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 20:56:22 -0400 From: Jedi To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <20110601005622.20882.70893 at ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" Okay. We know that some blindisms (as they are called) are a direct result of blind children not getting the appropriate opportunities to move around that they should have gotten early on. But I also think that so-called blindisms can also be our version of boredisms, little self-adaptive behaviors that we do when we've shifted our attention. They could also be behaviors that we do when we're excited or overstimulated. Sighted people have these, too. For example, they drumb their fingers, fidget, shake their knees, etc. These are no more appropriate than our behaviors except that they are more normative. So here's a thought. Instead of trying to eraticate a so-called blindism, try employing some alternative movement. So instead of rocking, tap a foot or shake an ankle. My mother suggested this technique to me and it worked. Eventually, i found that I didn't need the alternative movement. I guess employing the alternative made me more aware of my behavior and so I stopped it on my own. But in those weird times when I am moving, I find that I'm shaking an ankle or something, and most sighted people don't think much of it because they do it, too. Respectfully, Jedi From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 23:10:56 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 19:10:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] Princess Cruise Lines Welcomes Guide Dogs for the BlindGroup Message-ID: <4de6c720.4c1edc0a.2f76.0063@mx.google.com> ---- Original Message ------ From: "cheryl echevarria" can accommodate visually impaired travelers and their canine companions. The group was able to enjoy a tour of the ship and lunch in the dining room, while learning how Princess can provide for their needs and those of their dogs. The event was hosted in association with Dimensions in Travel, a travel agency that regularly organizes travel for Guide Dogs for the Blind clients, to give new guide dog users a feel for what to expect if they join one of the agency's group cruises, or travel independently. Since 2004, Princess has hosted 11 Guide Dogs for the Blind groups on cruises to destinations such as Mexico and Alaska. "Working with these clients has changed the way we travel," said Diana Saint James, owner of Dimensions in Travel. "It's not all about what we see when we travel anymore -- it's all of our senses. That's what our relationship with our blind travelers has taught us. It's a different way to see the world." Aboard Sea Princess guests were able to test out many of the special features offered for visually impaired travelers and their dogs. For the dogs, the ships provide special life jackets, bowls of water in the dining room, and relieving boxes with favored cedar chips. Passengers also have specially translated menus and can enjoy reserved seating in the Princess Theater with room for their dogs. During a cruise, passengers and crew are also invited to meet the dogs during a designated play time. "These dogs are canine heroes," said Brian Rademacher, Princess Cruises district sales manager. "It's truly a labor of love for us to work with this wonderful organization." http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1160 Message-ID: <201106012319.p51NJHG2002697@imr-da05.mx.aol.com> Hi Rania, Try calling the phone store and ask if they will give you an appointment for some amount of time. I know they will do this at the Apple store to make sure you buy their phones. If they bulk, tell them they do it at some of their competitors. That ought to make them think. If all else fails, ask for a manager and tell them the same. Make sure you call in advance to get it straightened out. Michelle From dandrews at visi.com Wed Jun 1 23:21:56 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 18:21:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel 2010 Question In-Reply-To: <027201cc208f$6e8390f0$6b01a8c0@server> References: <027201cc208f$6e8390f0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: What version of JAWS are you using. I use JAWS 12 with Excel 2010 almost daily, and it works fine. You may need to update your JAWS. Dave At 02:09 PM 6/1/2011, you wrote: >Hello, >We have just switched from Office 2002 to Office 2010. In the 2002 >version of Excel, you could use the cursor keys to navigate from one >cell to another. But when Excel 2010 is opened, we find that Jaws >is not announcing the cell name or any of its contents when we >attempt to navigate with the cursor keys. To be clear, it is >actually moving from cell to cell, and we are able to type text in >the cells just fine, but Jaws is not announcing the cell or its >contents. What should we be doing in order to get Jaws to speak as >we navigate from cell to cell with the cursor keys? >I appreciate your assistance, >Dennis From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 23:26:09 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 19:26:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: <201106012319.p51NJHG2002697@imr-da05.mx.aol.com> Message-ID: <4de6ca9e.524ee50a.5e7a.0205@mx.google.com> Thanks for the suggestion. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michelle Clark Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 7:19 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi Rania, Try calling the phone store and ask if they will give you an appointment for some amount of time. I know they will do this at the Apple store to make sure you buy their phones. If they bulk, tell them they do it at some of their competitors. That ought to make them think. If all else fails, ask for a manager and tell them the same. Make sure you call in advance to get it straightened out. Michelle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 00:38:44 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 20:38:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4de6dbb4.524ee50a.5e7a.037c@mx.google.com> Mike, Although I'd love to (history buff that I am) I believe the reports are only available on NFB's site since 1990. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" wrote: I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our struggle for civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black American experience, but we have struggled for civil rights. Go read some history on how blind people have been treated by families and institutions over the years. Blind children were targets for sexual assault in extremely high numbers because they were considered to be vulnerable. They were placed in horrific living conditions throughout history in institutions because families believed that blindness was equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be able to succeed or help out their relatives. As a people group, we have suffered many indignities that I don't think the current generation of blind people even come close to realizing. Best, Briley On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote: Mike: African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon how they were treated by whites up to that time. It is curious that how african-americans were treated is always one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I wonder, were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully protest the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we safely make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I could be, and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our histories were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on largely different levels. Just some thoughts on the matter,and I very much appreciate the question. Respectfully, Darian On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman wrote: Darian: What do you think African-americans would have said during the 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would rather date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black persons dating? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Jedi, Sure-let me see... We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to "visually impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person uses products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille compass, braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people who don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman than a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two blind people dating. Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I would like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is in their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am fine with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told that we are "wrong" for thinking like we do. Does that make sense? Respecgfully, Darian On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: Very good points. We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to remember that there are other minorities out there. How does one member of a minority group address another member of that same group if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should in public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive image of the rest of that group to society? I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with it varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it upon ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model that positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that probably is the healthiest way to approach this idea of perception-changing that we think about alot, Does that make sense? thoughts? On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: Excellent points. I'm going to add to that some. I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness or discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible audience for the blind person in question. This audience is made of both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts like "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I react this or that way? What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress that limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy in the interaction. So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind person to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience concept boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom line is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability to present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to the public. On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it in our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about us. The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. Sure, we want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions of one person. But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about that except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely that the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're all amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception to a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to deconstruct society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all of us based on one person. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap of taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless you're a therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it is not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously said, if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative ways of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows a lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. So if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! That person will either fall hard when they find out their parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs to happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They will either come around in time or they won't. Choice is the key word here. Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to lose out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as soon as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that other person real quick On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view that we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's going to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepo wer 17%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind jed i%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb % 40g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p ani x.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40 gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 0gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40gm ail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 00:38:58 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 20:38:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4de6dbc2.524ee50a.5e7a.0381@mx.google.com> In our case then, do you think more could have or can happen if the NFB and ACB spend more time working together and less time bickering and "attacking each other's philosophy?" Yes, in fact I do. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place. However, you could do worse than to read Dr. Floyd Matson's book, "Walking Alone and marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS Web-braille site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, James McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council of the Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites. It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB convention banquet speechdes of Drs. tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer. I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said Federationism was easy! (huge grin) Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Is there a site with... the history of blind people and what they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread. Josh sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" wrote: Darian: What do you think African-americans would have said during the 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would rather date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black persons dating? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Jedi, Sure-let me see... We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to "visually impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person uses products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille compass, braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people who don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman than a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two blind people dating. Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I would like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is in their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am fine with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told that we are "wrong" for thinking like we do. Does that make sense? Respecgfully, Darian On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: Very good points. We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to remember that there are other minorities out there. How does one member of a minority group address another member of that same group if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should in public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive image of the rest of that group to society? I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with it varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it upon ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model that positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that probably is the healthiest way to approach this idea of perception-changing that we think about alot, Does that make sense? thoughts? On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: Excellent points. I'm going to add to that some. I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness or discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible audience for the blind person in question. This audience is made of both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts like "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I react this or that way? What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress that limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy in the interaction. So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind person to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience concept boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom line is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability to present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to the public. On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it in our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about us. The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. Sure, we want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions of one person. But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about that except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely that the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're all amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception to a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to deconstruct society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all of us based on one person. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap of taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless you're a therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it is not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously said, if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative ways of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows a lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. So if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! That person will either fall hard when they find out their parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs to happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They will either come around in time or they won't. Choice is the key word here. Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to lose out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as soon as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that other person real quick On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view that we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's going to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow er 17%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind j ed i%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %4 0g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 0gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 00:38:53 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 20:38:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4de6dbbd.524ee50a.5e7a.037d@mx.google.com> Josh, Me too! Love history! You could probably read the NFB history book, Walking Alone and Marching Together, which I believe you can get from the TenBroek Library. I've seen the Braille copy at the library at the national center, and I'd love to read it as well. So, please let me know if you're able to get it online! Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory wrote: Darian: What do you think African-americans would have said during the 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would rather date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black persons dating? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Jedi, Sure-let me see... We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to "visually impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person uses products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille compass, braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people who don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman than a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two blind people dating. Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I would like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is in their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am fine with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told that we are "wrong" for thinking like we do. Does that make sense? Respecgfully, Darian On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: Very good points. We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to remember that there are other minorities out there. How does one member of a minority group address another member of that same group if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should in public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive image of the rest of that group to society? I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with it varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it upon ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model that positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that probably is the healthiest way to approach this idea of perception-changing that we think about alot, Does that make sense? thoughts? On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: Excellent points. I'm going to add to that some. I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness or discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible audience for the blind person in question. This audience is made of both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts like "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I react this or that way? What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress that limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy in the interaction. So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind person to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience concept boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom line is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability to present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to the public. On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it in our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about us. The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. Sure, we want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions of one person. But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about that except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely that the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're all amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception to a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to deconstruct society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all of us based on one person. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap of taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless you're a therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it is not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously said, if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative ways of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows a lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. So if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! That person will either fall hard when they find out their parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs to happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They will either come around in time or they won't. Choice is the key word here. Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to lose out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as soon as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that other person real quick On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view that we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's going to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow er 17%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind j ed i%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %4 0g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 0gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 00:38:56 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 20:38:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4de6dbbf.524ee50a.5e7a.037e@mx.google.com> Mike, Can you send me the link to the Walking Alone and Marching Together on the Web site and that of the NLS Web-Braille site? I'll look as well! Thanks! Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" wrote: Darian: What do you think African-americans would have said during the 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would rather date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black persons dating? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Jedi, Sure-let me see... We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to "visually impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person uses products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille compass, braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people who don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman than a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two blind people dating. Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I would like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is in their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am fine with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told that we are "wrong" for thinking like we do. Does that make sense? Respecgfully, Darian On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: Very good points. We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to remember that there are other minorities out there. How does one member of a minority group address another member of that same group if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should in public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive image of the rest of that group to society? I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with it varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it upon ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model that positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that probably is the healthiest way to approach this idea of perception-changing that we think about alot, Does that make sense? thoughts? On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: Excellent points. I'm going to add to that some. I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness or discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible audience for the blind person in question. This audience is made of both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts like "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I react this or that way? What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress that limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy in the interaction. So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind person to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience concept boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom line is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability to present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to the public. On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it in our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about us. The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. Sure, we want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions of one person. But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about that except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely that the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're all amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception to a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to deconstruct society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all of us based on one person. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap of taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless you're a therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it is not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously said, if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative ways of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows a lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. So if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! That person will either fall hard when they find out their parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs to happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They will either come around in time or they won't. Choice is the key word here. Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to lose out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as soon as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that other person real quick On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view that we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's going to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow er 17%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind j ed i%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %4 0g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 0gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 01:06:49 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 21:06:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <4de6dbc2.524ee50a.5e7a.0381@mx.google.com> References: <4de6dbc2.524ee50a.5e7a.0381@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Chris: I've seen them working together a lot lately which surprises me. But as long as its for the good of the community yes, I would agree with you. On Jun 1, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > In our case then, do you think more could have or can happen > if the NFB and ACB spend more time working together and less time bickering and "attacking each other's philosophy?" Yes, in fact I do. > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:35:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > Mike, > In the African-american struggle for huma rights, there were/are > lots of different philosophies and approaches taken by a lot of > different people-you probably know more about that than me having > lived through a lot of the craziness. Do you think more could've > happened faster if...say, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X spent less > time bickering and more time cooperating or, at the very least, > ignoring each other? I'm not denying that both of them did a lot to > better the condition of black people...but imagine what could've > happened if the two of them didn't take so long to reconcile-or, if > nothing else, if they didn't spend time attacking each others' > philosophies and devoted that energy to their respective movements? > Could that comparison be aplicable to us? Am I remiss when I say > that we in NFB sometimes spend too much time attacking the > philosophies of other blind people rather than advancing our own > philosophy? Am I remiss in saying that many in the ACB spend more > time trying to tear down the Federation instead of building up the > Council? Why can't we, if nothing else, leave each other alone and > spend all our time working on our own goals? > Maybe we could take that comparison further, to incolude individual > blind people who disagree with us. Ideally we should try to engage in > constructive dialogue and find some sort of common ground with people > who disagree and, for example, have next to no travel or daily living > skills. After all, we hope they'll "see the light", so to speak, and > become empowered with good training. But let's say they don't accept > our philosophy...whether they're compitent blind people or not, let's > say they want nothing to do with the Federation. I say first we try > and learn whatever we can from them, no matter their skills and > atitude (or lack thereof). Once we've learned something from them, > even if it's as simple as "I need to have better cane skills" or "this > guy has terrible hygiene-at least I know now why it's so important to > take showers!", then I think we try and let them learn from us. That > can either be by talking or by them looking at our example...if they > chose to not accept our world view, there's no reason to get angry and > defensive. There is still probably common ground somewhere and, even > in the highly unlikely event you can't find any (which is probably due > to you not looking hard enough), just ignore the person and move on. > If we can't be friends, there's no reason to be enemies...live and let > live, and all that jazz. > Warmly, > Kirt > > On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place. However, you > could do worse than to read Dr. Floyd Matson's book, "Walking Alone and > marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS Web-braille > site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, James > McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council of the > Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites. > > It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB convention > banquet speechdes of Drs. tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer. > > I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said Federationism was easy! > (huge grin) > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Josh Gregory > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > Is there a site with... the history of blind people and what > they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread. > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Freeman" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:52:47 -0700 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > Although I was never subject to one, I can still remember when, > at late as > the 1960's, welfare workers conducted "night raids" with the help > of the > police wherein said workers would visit blind clients and go > through their > homes to make sure that nothing had been bought that would > indicate that the > clients had unreported income. This extended even to such items > as a new > dress. > > I echo Briley's sentiments that many today have no concept of > what went down > in the past. > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:28 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our > struggle for > civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black American > experience, > but we have struggled for civil rights. Go read some history on > how blind > people have been treated by families and institutions over the > years. Blind > children were targets for sexual assault in extremely high > numbers because > they were considered to be vulnerable. They were placed in > horrific living > conditions throughout history in institutions because families > believed that > blindness was equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be > able to > succeed or help out their relatives. As a people group, we have > suffered > many indignities that I don't think the current generation of > blind people > even come close to realizing. > > Best, > Briley > On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote: > > Mike: > African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term > themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon > how > they were treated by whites up to that time. > It is curious that how african-americans were treated is > always > one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our > comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I > wonder, > were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully > protest > the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we > safely > make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I > could be, > and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some > similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our > histories > were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on > largely > different levels. > Just some thoughts on the matter,and I very much appreciate > the > question. > Respectfully, > Darian > > On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman wrote: > Darian: > > What do you think African-americans would have said during the > 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would > rather > date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black > persons > dating? > > Mike > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Darian Smith > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in > others > > Jedi, > Sure-let me see... > We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with > situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For > example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to > "visually > impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person > uses > products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille > compass, > braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people > who > don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. > I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman > than > a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two > blind people dating. > Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I > would > like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is > in > their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am > fine > with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are > accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told > that we > are "wrong" > for thinking like we do. > Does that make sense? > Respecgfully, > Darian > > > On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Very good points. > We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to > remember that there are other minorities out there. How does > one > member of a minority group address another member of that same > group > if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should > in > public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive > image > of the rest of that group to society? > I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with > it > varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it > upon > ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model > that > positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that > probably is > the healthiest way to approach this idea of > perception-changing > that we think about alot, Does that make sense? > thoughts? > > On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: > Excellent points. > > I'm going to add to that some. > > I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when > they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness > or > discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of > such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible > audience for the blind person in question. This audience is > made of > both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts > like > "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I > react this > or that way? > What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will > sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose > situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress > that > limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also > creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived > threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy > in the > interaction. > So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind > person > to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience > concept > boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved > with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective > and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person > who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom > line > is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we > may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high > stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability > to > present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to > the > public. > > On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it > in > our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about > us. > The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. > Sure, we > want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone > else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions > of one > person. > But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about > that > except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our > population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely > that > the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're > all > amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception > to > a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that > we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to > deconstruct > society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough > diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all > of > us based on one > person. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: > That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap > of > taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we > lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless > you're a > therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it > is > not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your > place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously > said, > if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative > ways > of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old > patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows > a > lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. > So > if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! > That person will either fall hard when they find out their > parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't > take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs > to > happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and > want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind > person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's > not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They > will > either come around in time or they > won't. Choice is the key word here. > Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not > hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to > lose > out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as > soon > as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that > other person real quick > > On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: > I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view > that we get from the public in general. Most people who are > sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand > that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now > reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are > the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who > smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the > proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say > that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right > for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills > set > that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because > they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us > blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to > be > independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right > but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a > negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, > rock, > hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their > own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group > that's going to display such a view that is negative to the > public, > we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow > er > 17%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind > j > ed > i%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. > Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info > for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb > %4 > 0g > mail.com > > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: > http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. > > - Robert Byrne > > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: > http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. > > - Robert Byrne > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p > anix > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb > %40g > mail.com > > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: > http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. > > - Robert Byrne > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 > 0gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p > anix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p > anix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 01:13:29 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 19:13:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4de6dbc2.524ee50a.5e7a.0381@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Chris, That's just the resolutions-they have banquet speeches and presidential releases going all the way back. On 6/1/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > Chris: > I've seen them working together a lot lately which surprises me. > But as long as its for the good of the community yes, I would agree with > you. > > > On Jun 1, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > >> In our case then, do you think more could have or can happen >> if the NFB and ACB spend more time working together and less time >> bickering and "attacking each other's philosophy?" Yes, in fact I do. >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just >> click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. >> >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have >> the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn >> more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. >> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night >> Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars >> per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and >> visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting >> Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at >> wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation >> Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. >> Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:35:34 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others >> >> Mike, >> In the African-american struggle for huma rights, there were/are >> lots of different philosophies and approaches taken by a lot of >> different people-you probably know more about that than me having >> lived through a lot of the craziness. Do you think more could've >> happened faster if...say, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X spent less >> time bickering and more time cooperating or, at the very least, >> ignoring each other? I'm not denying that both of them did a lot to >> better the condition of black people...but imagine what could've >> happened if the two of them didn't take so long to reconcile-or, if >> nothing else, if they didn't spend time attacking each others' >> philosophies and devoted that energy to their respective movements? >> Could that comparison be aplicable to us? Am I remiss when I say >> that we in NFB sometimes spend too much time attacking the >> philosophies of other blind people rather than advancing our own >> philosophy? Am I remiss in saying that many in the ACB spend more >> time trying to tear down the Federation instead of building up the >> Council? Why can't we, if nothing else, leave each other alone and >> spend all our time working on our own goals? >> Maybe we could take that comparison further, to incolude individual >> blind people who disagree with us. Ideally we should try to engage in >> constructive dialogue and find some sort of common ground with people >> who disagree and, for example, have next to no travel or daily living >> skills. After all, we hope they'll "see the light", so to speak, and >> become empowered with good training. But let's say they don't accept >> our philosophy...whether they're compitent blind people or not, let's >> say they want nothing to do with the Federation. I say first we try >> and learn whatever we can from them, no matter their skills and >> atitude (or lack thereof). Once we've learned something from them, >> even if it's as simple as "I need to have better cane skills" or "this >> guy has terrible hygiene-at least I know now why it's so important to >> take showers!", then I think we try and let them learn from us. That >> can either be by talking or by them looking at our example...if they >> chose to not accept our world view, there's no reason to get angry and >> defensive. There is still probably common ground somewhere and, even >> in the highly unlikely event you can't find any (which is probably due >> to you not looking hard enough), just ignore the person and move on. >> If we can't be friends, there's no reason to be enemies...live and let >> live, and all that jazz. >> Warmly, >> Kirt >> >> On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman wrote: >> I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place. However, you >> could do worse than to read Dr. Floyd Matson's book, "Walking Alone and >> marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS >> Web-braille >> site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, James >> McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council of the >> Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites. >> >> It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB convention >> banquet speechdes of Drs. tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer. >> >> I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said Federationism was >> easy! >> (huge grin) >> >> Mike >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Josh Gregory >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others >> >> Is there a site with... the history of blind people and what >> they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread. >> Josh >> >> sent from my Apex >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Freeman" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> > Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:52:47 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others >> >> Although I was never subject to one, I can still remember when, >> at late as >> the 1960's, welfare workers conducted "night raids" with the help >> of the >> police wherein said workers would visit blind clients and go >> through their >> homes to make sure that nothing had been bought that would >> indicate that the >> clients had unreported income. This extended even to such items >> as a new >> dress. >> >> I echo Briley's sentiments that many today have no concept of >> what went down >> in the past. >> >> Mike >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Briley Pollard >> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:28 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others >> >> I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our >> struggle for >> civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black American >> experience, >> but we have struggled for civil rights. Go read some history on >> how blind >> people have been treated by families and institutions over the >> years. Blind >> children were targets for sexual assault in extremely high >> numbers because >> they were considered to be vulnerable. They were placed in >> horrific living >> conditions throughout history in institutions because families >> believed that >> blindness was equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be >> able to >> succeed or help out their relatives. As a people group, we have >> suffered >> many indignities that I don't think the current generation of >> blind people >> even come close to realizing. >> >> Best, >> Briley >> On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote: >> >> Mike: >> African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term >> themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon >> how >> they were treated by whites up to that time. >> It is curious that how african-americans were treated is >> always >> one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our >> comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I >> wonder, >> were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully >> protest >> the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we >> safely >> make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I >> could be, >> and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some >> similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our >> histories >> were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on >> largely >> different levels. >> Just some thoughts on the matter,and I very much appreciate >> the >> question. >> Respectfully, >> Darian >> >> On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman wrote: >> Darian: >> >> What do you think African-americans would have said during the >> 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would >> rather >> date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black >> persons >> dating? >> >> Mike >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in >> others >> >> Jedi, >> Sure-let me see... >> We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with >> situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For >> example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to >> "visually >> impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person >> uses >> products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille >> compass, >> braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people >> who >> don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. >> I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman >> than >> a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two >> blind people dating. >> Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I >> would >> like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is >> in >> their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am >> fine >> with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are >> accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told >> that we >> are "wrong" >> for thinking like we do. >> Does that make sense? >> Respecgfully, >> Darian >> >> >> On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: >> Very good points. >> We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to >> remember that there are other minorities out there. How does >> one >> member of a minority group address another member of that same >> group >> if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should >> in >> public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive >> image >> of the rest of that group to society? >> I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with >> it >> varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it >> upon >> ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model >> that >> positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that >> probably is >> the healthiest way to approach this idea of >> perception-changing >> that we think about alot, Does that make sense? >> thoughts? >> >> On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: >> Excellent points. >> >> I'm going to add to that some. >> >> I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when >> they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness >> or >> discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of >> such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible >> audience for the blind person in question. This audience is >> made of >> both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts >> like >> "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I >> react this >> or that way? >> What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will >> sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose >> situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress >> that >> limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also >> creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived >> threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy >> in the >> interaction. >> So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind >> person >> to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience >> concept >> boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved >> with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective >> and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person >> who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom >> line >> is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we >> may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high >> stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability >> to >> present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to >> the >> public. >> >> On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it >> in >> our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about >> us. >> The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. >> Sure, we >> want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone >> else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions >> of one >> person. >> But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about >> that >> except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our >> population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely >> that >> the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're >> all >> amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception >> to >> a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that >> we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to >> deconstruct >> society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough >> diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all >> of >> us based on one >> person. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Original message: >> That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap >> of >> taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we >> lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless >> you're a >> therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it >> is >> not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your >> place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously >> said, >> if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative >> ways >> of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old >> patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows >> a >> lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. >> So >> if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! >> That person will either fall hard when they find out their >> parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't >> take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs >> to >> happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and >> want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind >> person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's >> not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They >> will >> either come around in time or they >> won't. Choice is the key word here. >> Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not >> hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to >> lose >> out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as >> soon >> as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that >> other person real quick >> >> On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: >> I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view >> that we get from the public in general. Most people who are >> sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand >> that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now >> reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are >> the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who >> smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the >> proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say >> that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right >> for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills >> set >> that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because >> they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us >> blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to >> be >> independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right >> but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a >> negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, >> rock, >> hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their >> own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group >> that's going to display such a view that is negative to the >> public, >> we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow >> er >> 17%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind >> j >> ed >> i%40samobile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. >> Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info >> for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb >> %4 >> 0g >> mail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: >> http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. >> >> - Robert Byrne >> >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: >> http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. >> >> - Robert Byrne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p >> anix >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb >> %40g >> mail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: >> http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. >> >> - Robert Byrne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 >> 0gmai >> l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p >> anix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 >> 2%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p >> anix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz >> ydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 01:47:20 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 21:47:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi! I don't know about Aim 7.5 wit Jaws12, as I've not used it. However, if yo don't get this problem fixed, I can recommend a tool called Miranda Instant Messenger, which lets you use Aim, MSN, facebook chat, and other messengers in one interface. The program is accessible, very customizable, and works well. If you'd like more info on this, let me know off list. Good luck, hope you get aim working. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jun 2 02:22:30 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands Message-ID: Hi all, I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. At least I can change it to elloquence. So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading commands I mean. I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. How are the internet commands different? I know that you move through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen reader thing. I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: insert f7: links list. insert f5: headings list Insert f9: frames list H: headings C: combo box R: radio button B: button In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command is Control insert tab. Thanks for any tips. Ashley From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 02:22:52 2011 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, David, I have heard of Miranda and tried to download it a few months ago, but I wasn't able to get it to work properly (it kept causing my computer to crash). Would you please send me a link where I can get the appropriate version for screen readers? It sounds like others on the list would be interested as well. Thanks! Katie On 6/1/11, David Dunphy wrote: > Hi! > I don't know about Aim 7.5 wit Jaws12, as I've not used it. However, > if yo don't get this problem fixed, I can recommend a tool called > Miranda Instant Messenger, which lets you use Aim, MSN, facebook chat, > and other messengers in one interface. The program is accessible, very > customizable, and works well. > If you'd like more info on this, let me know off list. > Good luck, hope you get aim working. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jun 2 02:27:20 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:27:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws vs window eyes Message-ID: <560F3C449AC74AF4B33E51FF9C4FBB63@OwnerPC> Hi all, For those of you who used both screen readers, what do you prefer? I have always used jaws and like the numeric keypad and either using the keypad arrows or the regular arrows for the commands. You do not have to stretch your fingers far to do the commands. Which provides better internet support with internet explorer? So far I think jaws does. Window eyes seems to skip some text, but maybe I wasn’t reading it right. I learned a few commands so far. Thanks. Ashley From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 2 03:01:50 2011 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 20:01:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Excel 2010 Question References: <027201cc208f$6e8390f0$6b01a8c0@server> Message-ID: <004d01cc20d1$6c0b5f00$6b01a8c0@server> Hi Dave, I appreciate hearing that you are having success using Excel with Jaws 12. We have the latest version of Jaws 12, and we are using Windows 7. However, I think I have uncovered the problem thanks to Jaws tech support. The version of Office 2010 we are using is the downloadable 60 day trial version of Office 2010 which Microsoft offers, and it turns out that it isn't really Office 2010. After many efforts by tech support to resolve the problem, the tech support representative had us press insert q, and we all discovered that Jaws had loaded the configuration file for Excel 2007, not 2010. This was not a mistake where Jaws loaded the wrong configuration file, but rather that Microsoft is actually identifying this trial product as 2010 when it really isn't. We will have Office 2010 tomorrow thanks to Amazon, so we will install it, and hopefully Excel will perform as it should. I am comforted to know that Excel 2010 will work with Jaws 12 based on your experience. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Excel 2010 Question > What version of JAWS are you using. I use JAWS 12 with Excel 2010 almost > daily, and it works fine. You may need to update your JAWS. > > Dave > > At 02:09 PM 6/1/2011, you wrote: >>Hello, >>We have just switched from Office 2002 to Office 2010. In the 2002 version >>of Excel, you could use the cursor keys to navigate from one cell to >>another. But when Excel 2010 is opened, we find that Jaws is not >>announcing the cell name or any of its contents when we attempt to >>navigate with the cursor keys. To be clear, it is actually moving from >>cell to cell, and we are able to type text in the cells just fine, but >>Jaws is not announcing the cell or its contents. What should we be doing >>in order to get Jaws to speak as we navigate from cell to cell with the >>cursor keys? >>I appreciate your assistance, >>Dennis > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 05:28:06 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 01:28:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is About To Return With A New Online Station Message-ID: <11D530ADF6154D8F9A881A588A65E5C2@audioaccess1PC> Hello Everybody! Please spread the word to anyone you think would want to know the following: After months of being away from online radio so that I could regroup after the terrible circumstances that took me off the air in December of 2010, I am happy to report that I am back in the game, The Djd Invasion is about to return sounding better than ever before, and with that will come my last and final attempt to provide you an online radio station! As just stated, this means the return of The Djd Invasion and other shows that you've come to enjoy from stations I've run in the past. However, many of the fun features of my past sites have been upgraded to be better than ever, and we have some exciting new programs and broadcasters to provide to you too! Also, from August forward, you’ll be able to hear the National Association Of Blind Students Membership Committee conference calls streamed live as they’re happening once again. You’ll still go to http://www.nabslinkaudio.org but the calls will be aired on our new servers, supporting broadband and dialup users, and allowing us as a division to reach many new people, both blind and sighted alike. And there will be a specialized version of our station site for those wishing to listen to shows and archives via phone. Select a show you like, jump from archive to archive, and give feedback to each dj through comment lines and so much more. We’re pulling out all the stops! Once our station launches, our exciting new site will give you A show schedule where you can select your time zone for viewing the schedule so you’ll always know when your show will air in your local time, whether here or abroad The opportunity for you to join our team if you wish Listen to our shows using a variety of media players Missed a show? Subscribe to its podcast, listen to shows when they’re replayed, and get notifications by email, twitter, or text message when your favorite show is ready for download And more... Can’t give everything away, can we! So when do we launch you might ask? Head on over to http://www.audioaccessradio.com right now to hear our exciting press release announcing our official launch date of June 13 2011! >From that page, you can hear the announcement, and hear how you can follow us so you can be there, from the pre launch presentation to our kick off party! While there, make sure to subscribe to our listeners list so you can be notified about shows and other events Feel free to check us out on twitter too, simply follow audioaccess1 I can promise you that with the resources I have at my disposal right now, this will be the best project that I am able to give you. So spread the word, get in touch, and join us for our exciting launch! I hope to see you there! Best wishes to all, David Dunphy From carlymih at earthlink.net Thu Jun 2 06:23:28 2011 From: carlymih at earthlink.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:23:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110601231359.01ddda48@earthlink.net> Hi, Ashley, I too, use WE but do not readily remember specific reading commands. Instead, I usually simply use the arrow keys and controlleft/down left/right, which are Windows commands and are therefore, somewhat universal. Others may have some more sound advice for Ashley, like something specific to navigate within WE. Sorry I am not more helpful, but reverting to basics may save you. . 22 PM 6/1/2011, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >At least I can change it to elloquence. > >So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading commands I mean. >I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws that >is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current line, >current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen reader thing. > >I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >insert f7: links list. >insert f5: headings list >Insert f9: frames list >H: headings >C: combo box >R: radio button >B: button >In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command is >Control insert tab. > >Thanks for any tips. >Ashley >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net From carlymih at earthlink.net Thu Jun 2 06:24:17 2011 From: carlymih at earthlink.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:24:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110601232358.01d64ef0@earthlink.net> Hi, Katie, What is Miranda?At 07:22 PM 6/1/2011, you wrote: >Hi, David, > I have heard of Miranda and tried to download it a few months ago, >but I wasn't able to get it to work properly (it kept causing my >computer to crash). Would you please send me a link where I can get >the appropriate version for screen readers? It sounds like others on >the list would be interested as well. Thanks! > Katie > >On 6/1/11, David Dunphy wrote: > > Hi! > > I don't know about Aim 7.5 wit Jaws12, as I've not used it. However, > > if yo don't get this problem fixed, I can recommend a tool called > > Miranda Instant Messenger, which lets you use Aim, MSN, facebook chat, > > and other messengers in one interface. The program is accessible, very > > customizable, and works well. > > If you'd like more info on this, let me know off list. > > Good luck, hope you get aim working. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 06:27:49 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 02:27:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] question about JAWS 12 and AIM 7.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi There! What I can do for you is this: Tomorrow, I'll send you a link to download Miranda with the configurations that I belieeve will serve you best and give you the best access to things. Once I send this to you, and you can tell me the best email address to use, why don't we get together on phone or skype and I'll get it so everything gets configured for you, since there are a couple of tweaks necessary, and you'll be good to go. And adding other messengers and accounts once you're set up is a snap too. I'll work with others too if anyone wants. >From David From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jun 2 09:49:15 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 04:49:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Settlement with Wells-Fargo Bank Message-ID: Settlement Agreement between the United States and Wells Fargo & Company On May 31, 2011, the Justice Department's Disability Rights Section and Office of the United States Attorney for the Northern District of California entered into a comprehensive settlement agreement with Wells Fargo & Company. Under the Agreement, Wells Fargo will pay up to $16 million to compensate individuals who experienced discrimination in violation of Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) when trying to call Wells Fargo, access Wells Fargo's services, or visit one of Wells Fargo's retail stores. On the website http://www.ada.gov/wells_fargo/index.htm you will find these links: How to file a claim for compensation from Wells Fargo Settlement Agreement between United States and Wells Fargo Fact Sheet about Agreement Press Release Wells Fargo owns or operates almost 10,000 retail stores and 12,000 ATMs located throughout the United States. Wells Fargo offers a wide variety of financial services, including personal and commercial banking, mortgages, brokerage, insurance, and investments. The Department initiated its investigation after receiving complaints under Title III of the ADA filed by numerous individuals who are deaf, are hard of hearing, or have speech disabilities. The complainants alleged that Wells Fargo would not do business with them over the phone using a telecommunications relay service. Instead, the individuals were directed to call a TTY/TDD line that asked them to leave a message, which went unanswered. The Department determined that these actions violated the ADA. The Department also received a variety of other complaints alleging ADA violations by Wells Fargo, including the failure to provide financial documents to people who are blind or have low vision in alternate formats (e.g., Braille or large print), the failure to provide appropriate auxiliary aids and services upon request for in-person meetings between Wells Fargo staff and individuals who are deaf, and the failure to remove barriers to access for individuals with mobility disabilities. The settlement agreement provides for resolution of all complaints alleging violation of the ADA in connection with Wells Fargo's financial services and retail facilities based on events occurring before May 31, 2011. The settlement agreement requires Wells Fargo to accept calls made through a relay service by customers who are deaf, are hard of hearing, or have speech disabilities; remove physical barriers to access identified at its retail stores; provide appropriate auxiliary aids and services, including qualified sign language or oral interpreters, computer-assisted real-time transcription, qualified readers, and documents in alternate formats (Braille, large print, audio format, accessible electronic format) to persons with disabilities when necessary to ensure effective communication throughout its financial services and programs; ensure that its ATMs and websites are accessible to individuals with disabilities; and remedy all other instances of discrimination - including architectural barriers and operational issues -- under Title III of the ADA that are identified during the claims process. In addition, the agreement requires Wells Fargo to make $1 million in charitable donations to non-profit organizations that will assist veterans with disabilities caused by injuries sustained while serving in Iraq or Afghanistan to live independently in the community. Wells Fargo will also pay a $55,000 civil penalty to the United States Treasury. From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 10:50:44 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 06:50:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws vs window eyes In-Reply-To: <560F3C449AC74AF4B33E51FF9C4FBB63@OwnerPC> References: <560F3C449AC74AF4B33E51FF9C4FBB63@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I like JFW better--it seems to be more responsive. On Jun 1, 2011, at 10:27 PM, wrote: > Hi all, > For those of you who used both screen readers, what do you prefer? > I have always used jaws and like the numeric keypad and either using the keypad arrows or the regular arrows for the commands. You do not have to stretch your fingers far to do the commands. > > Which provides better internet support with internet explorer? > So far I think jaws does. Window eyes seems to skip some text, but maybe I wasn’t reading it right. > I learned a few commands so far. > > Thanks. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 14:45:01 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:45:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker Message-ID: Hi all, A friend was asking me about a device called the I clicker. Wondering if you all g have heard of such a thing and how accessable you believe it to be? Thanks, Darian -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne From jbahm at pcdesk.net Thu Jun 2 15:53:14 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 09:53:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE7B1EA.9090408@pcdesk.net> Ashley, There's a list of the keystrokes in the Window-Eyes manual. It can be accessed from within Window-Eyes, or if you need it ahead of time I can send you the manual in chm or txt format. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, From jbahm at pcdesk.net Thu Jun 2 15:59:02 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 09:59:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DE7B346.8000605@pcdesk.net> I have used one. The device itself is mostly useable. It has 5 buttons labeled A through E, and a power button. What it's generally used for are in class questions and that sort of thing. There are a couple things that can be difficult. Setting the frequency the device communicates on requires you look at the lights on the device, but a person could just memorize the sequence or else have someone help them do it. It's not something you have to do often, and I could talk a person through setting the right frequency without sight if necessary since I've done it myself a time or ten. The only other potential difficulty would be that the device indicates a successful transmission with a green light and an unsuccessful one with a blinking red light. That may or may not be a problem for your friend depending on the situation. Usually the unsuccessful transmission thing doesn't happen if the device is set to the right frequency and registered with the base the instructor is using, and the instructor has the base set up to receive transmissions. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 16:11:50 2011 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:11:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We use those here at FSU and they've created some problems for blind students here. First, the original iClicker isn't accessible. Basically you're holding a thin bar with six buttons and an LED light on the front. The buttons are marked with raised letters, and from top to bottom go On/Off, A, B, C, D, E (the letters would be used for answer choices). If you can identify raised letters well enough or just memorize the order, you're set there. The problem is a small one. When you turn the device on in class, you have to connect to a channel being used for that class. You do this by holding down the on/off button until the LED light indicating the device is on starts to flash. Then you type in a letter code given to you by the professor, and if you connected succesfully, the LED light will give you some sort of signal and go solid again. The light also indicates visually whether your answer was submitted successfully or not, when your battery is low, and when the device is on or off (and it does get turned on accidentally if left in a bag or binder or pocket for any period of time). This means you may need help from sighted peers to properly opperate the device and troubleshoot errors. The company that makes the iClicker has an accessible model available. This model gives vibrating signals instead of lights. I think it's poor design for these to be two separate products since the vibrating version would work for both blind and sighted students equally, but at least it's available. The problem is that these devices, if bought by ordinary people through the company, are extremely expensive. The university bookstores buy the lighted versions in bulk, and at least at FSU, I was told that they did not purchase any accessible models as well and still have not done so. You might ask your bookstore or disability services office if an accessible iClicker is already available for you to purchase (at the rate students normally pay for the iClicker from the bookstore) or borrow. If not, I'd ask if they can get one, or a few, for students in need at your university, or switch to keeping the vibrating versions in stock at the bookstore since they work well for sighted students too. On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi all, > A friend was asking me about a device called the I clicker. > Wondering if you all g have heard of such a thing and how accessable > you believe it to be? > Thanks, > Darian > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truthas vi > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. > > — Robert Byrne > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 16:14:54 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:14:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: <4DE7B346.8000605@pcdesk.net> References: <4DE7B346.8000605@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: Darian, I'd echo what Joseph said-I had to use them a lot last year. It's easier just to have a sighted friend help set up the frequency and, when in a class, just ask the person next to you if the iclicker sent the answer ok or, in some cases, they may have to read the questions if the instructor's lazy like that. But from my experience, people in classes are usually cool with that sort of thing...I've made some new friends that way. *grin* Warmly, Kirt On 6/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > I have used one. The device itself is mostly useable. It has 5 buttons > labeled A through E, and a power button. What it's generally used for > are in class questions and that sort of thing. > > There are a couple things that can be difficult. Setting the frequency > the device communicates on requires you look at the lights on the > device, but a person could just memorize the sequence or else have > someone help them do it. It's not something you have to do often, and I > could talk a person through setting the right frequency without sight if > necessary since I've done it myself a time or ten. > > The only other potential difficulty would be that the device indicates a > successful transmission with a green light and an unsuccessful one with > a blinking red light. That may or may not be a problem for your friend > depending on the situation. Usually the unsuccessful transmission thing > doesn't happen if the device is set to the right frequency and > registered with the base the instructor is using, and the instructor has > the base set up to receive transmissions. > -- > "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box > Joseph C. Lininger, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 16:17:21 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:17:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EDF679A-20E6-4A4A-8872-71F93396849B@gmail.com> It's not accessible. It's easy to memorize the buttons, but the device has lights that blink when it's working properly etc. What I normally did with those is to just ask a friend to confirm that my answers actually got registered. You can operate it by yourself just fine, but you will have no confirmation that transmissions were successful. On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi all, > A friend was asking me about a device called the I clicker. > Wondering if you all g have heard of such a thing and how accessable > you believe it to be? > Thanks, > Darian > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace > > "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. > > — Robert Byrne > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 16:28:59 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:28:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: <3EDF679A-20E6-4A4A-8872-71F93396849B@gmail.com> References: <3EDF679A-20E6-4A4A-8872-71F93396849B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jamie, At least for me, it stays on the channel you set until you set a new one. So I could turn it off all I wanted, go to class, turn it on again there and it'd be on the right channel. I didn't have to change anything after I had a friend help me get to the right frequency the first time. And, although nominally inconvenient, it takes all of 5 seconds for a sighted person to change to the right frequency so it's not a huge deal. Best, Kirt On 6/2/11, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > It's not accessible. It's easy to memorize the buttons, but the device has > lights that blink when it's working properly etc. What I normally did with > those is to just ask a friend to confirm that my answers actually got > registered. You can operate it by yourself just fine, but you will have no > confirmation that transmissions were successful. > On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Darian Smith wrote: > >> Hi all, >> A friend was asking me about a device called the I clicker. >> Wondering if you all g have heard of such a thing and how accessable >> you believe it to be? >> Thanks, >> Darian >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace >> >> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. >> >> — Robert Byrne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From joshkart12 at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 16:37:18 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:37:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Math-to-Speech technology project In-Reply-To: <4de6a187.0d41340a.58e8.4112@mx.google.com> References: <4de6a187.0d41340a.58e8.4112@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, from what I can understand, kind of a screen reader that will read the math to you in a form that you can understand, that is, algebraically. HTH, Josh On 6/1/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > I'm a little confused here. How's this going to work, is > it a dictation software like DragonSpeak, or is it like a screen > reader? > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. > Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for > more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: > nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirt Manwaring To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Fri, 27 May 2011 11:47:43 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math-to-Speech technology project > > Kevin, > I do see your point-for me, and probably for most blind people, > nemeth is better than speech for math. While I personally > wouldn't > spend a million and a half dollars on a project like this if I > had the > money (maybe making braille notetakers compatible with nemeth out > of > the box would be a more productive idea), it's certainly not a > bad > concept. Especially in really advanced math where the way things > are > read matters a little more. > That being said, along with this we should make sure that our > rights > to do math in braille are protected. Is this threatening the use > of > nemeth braille for advanced math? I doubt it-it sounds like this > is > in very early planning, will only work for basic algebra at > first, and > I don't think there's anything wrong with having two options out > there > as long as both are protected and you aren't forced to choose > one. If > you are being forced to make that kind of choice, I suspect > that's due > to stubborn people at your DSS office more than the possible > availability of speech technology to help with math. > So I am very skeptical this will go anywhere. Most sighted > people > read and write math, I think it's the same for us. I'd be > honestly a > little shocked if this is even able to compete with nemeth code > as an > exclusive way to access math-but it could maybe be a nice > appendage to > the code for some people. Remember Dr. Nemeth is helping with > this to > some extent...if he thought this threatened the security of the > Nemeth > code, I doubt he'd throw his name behind it. > Warmly, > Kirt > > On 5/27/11, Loew, Ruth wrote: > Serena - > > The current project is focused on Algebra 1; it is too soon to > say what a > future project may address. Thanks for the suggestion, though; > I'll keep it > in mind, and I've already passed it along to the researchers. > > Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D. > Assistant Director > Office of Disability Policy, ETS > phone: 609-683-2984 > fax: 609-683-2220 > > > Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:36:04 -0400 > From: "Serena Cucco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Math-to-Speech technology project > Message-ID: <8E1B0FFA42DD487AA9B9AAC841A249A6 at SerenaPC > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Just wondering, might this project deal with more advanced Math, > such as > Statistics, in the future? > > Serena > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz > ydude%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com > -- The Ever-curious Master Yoda Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 19:57:27 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:57:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download Message-ID: <4de7eb47.8c00e50a.7c71.20a2@mx.google.com> Hi Arielle, Do you know if the meeting will be streamed or should I call the national center? Also, are there any past meetings available for download on nabslinkaudio.org? Thanks! Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Arielle Silverman wrote: I'm in Oregon, and we're attempting to get a student division off the ground. At best, I could stop by the student meeting to pick up any tools that might help our state. Thanks. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres ident%40gmail.com -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 19:57:24 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:57:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4de7eb45.8c00e50a.7c71.20a1@mx.google.com> I completely agree, Mike! Great post! Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" wrote: Kirt: I agree that, ideally at least, we should live and let live. In fact, as a practical matter, that is what is done here in the state of Washington: the NFB of Washington and the Washington Council of the Blind work together when we can -- often rather closely -- but we agree to disagree on some matters and as long as no one stirs the pot, we tend to stay out of each other's way on matters on which we disagree, if only because neither organization has sufficient political clout to prevail easily when we work at cross-purposes. But you can bet your life that if WCB actively pushed something that was totally against NFB policy, we of NFB would try to defeat WCB's effort. In like fashion, I am certain that WCB would do the same viz. our efforts if they directly contradicted some ACB policy that WCB members held dear. That isn't really a problem in that Mitch Pomerantz, President of ACB, himself said that ACB stands for no organized philosophy and ACB doesn't enforce unified policy directives on its affiliates. In other words, the problem hasn't arisen here -- at least not in the past twenty-five years. And the threats to blindness agencies in this state have been of sufficient magnitude that we (NFBW and WCB) were on the same side, even if we love some the agencies a bit less than do members of WCB; there was no alternative. Having said this, I don't believe that the lack of effectiveness in the black civil rights movement of the late 1960's was due to fragmented voices within that movement. Rather, I think it was due in some measure to martin Luther King Jr.'s scattering his shots -- coming out against the Vietnam War and for anti-poverty initiatives, for example, instead of keeping his "eye on the prize" as the PBS history of the civil rights movement is called. I think there was room enough for many voices in the civil rights movement although I confess that many WASPs such as I were turned off big-time by Stoakley Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, bobby Seal, Eldrige Cleaver and other persons of like mind. I think the comparison by some of our detractors of NFB to a religion is much overblown. However, I think the comparison is valid to this extent: if one truly applied your "live and let live" and "preach by example" philosophy -- quite admirable in the abstract -- to religion, there would be no missionaries, no jihad, no outreach ministries, and the like. Put another way, it's human nature to try to reach out to convince those with whom we disagree or those whom we would convert. "gospel" means "good news", after all. Does this mean that we should look down upon blind people who do not have the skills of blindness? Of course not. They, like we, are "Within the Grace of God" as tenBroek's speech is entitled. Does this mean that there are not alternative ways to look at the problems of blindness? Again, of course not. But let us remember that we of NFB are out to do nothing less than to change society -- to obliterate the stereotype of the "helpless blind person" and the discriminatory treatment, blighted hopes and missed opportunities that flow from this misbegotten stereotype. And in the United States, change is effected by banding together in associations of like mind to advocate for those policies we believe in. This is not an undertaking of passivity. For better or worse, advocacy involves, to some extent at least, preaching. Of course this does not mean that we should be intolerant or maintain that there are no other viewpoints. But it *also* doesn't mean that we refrain from passionately advocating for what we believe in. that's the way things get done in this country. How this all plays out at a personal level isn't always easy to fathom. As I've said before, no one ever said being a Federationist was easy. But I submit that *not* saying anything -- even if only words of encouragement -- when we find injustice, erroneous stereotypes and persons selling themselves short -- is contrary to what we have pledged ourselves to accomplish. WE should never be obnoxious or boorish. But saying nothing is itself making a statement. What this all amounts to is espousal of the Serenity Prayer: "O god: give me the strength to change the things I can, the patience to accept the things I cannot and the wisdom to discern the difference.". Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:36 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Mike, In the African-american struggle for huma rights, there were/are lots of different philosophies and approaches taken by a lot of different people-you probably know more about that than me having lived through a lot of the craziness. Do you think more could've happened faster if...say, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X spent less time bickering and more time cooperating or, at the very least, ignoring each other? I'm not denying that both of them did a lot to better the condition of black people...but imagine what could've happened if the two of them didn't take so long to reconcile-or, if nothing else, if they didn't spend time attacking each others' philosophies and devoted that energy to their respective movements? Could that comparison be aplicable to us? Am I remiss when I say that we in NFB sometimes spend too much time attacking the philosophies of other blind people rather than advancing our own philosophy? Am I remiss in saying that many in the ACB spend more time trying to tear down the Federation instead of building up the Council? Why can't we, if nothing else, leave each other alone and spend all our time working on our own goals? Maybe we could take that comparison further, to incolude individual blind people who disagree with us. Ideally we should try to engage in constructive dialogue and find some sort of common ground with people who disagree and, for example, have next to no travel or daily living skills. After all, we hope they'll "see the light", so to speak, and become empowered with good training. But let's say they don't accept our philosophy...whether they're compitent blind people or not, let's say they want nothing to do with the Federation. I say first we try and learn whatever we can from them, no matter their skills and atitude (or lack thereof). Once we've learned something from them, even if it's as simple as "I need to have better cane skills" or "this guy has terrible hygiene-at least I know now why it's so important to take showers!", then I think we try and let them learn from us. That can either be by talking or by them looking at our example...if they chose to not accept our world view, there's no reason to get angry and defensive. There is still probably common ground somewhere and, even in the highly unlikely event you can't find any (which is probably due to you not looking hard enough), just ignore the person and move on. If we can't be friends, there's no reason to be enemies...live and let live, and all that jazz. Warmly, Kirt On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman wrote: I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place. However, you could do worse than to read Dr. Floyd Matson's book, "Walking Alone and marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS Web-braille site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, James McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council of the Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites. It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB convention banquet speechdes of Drs. tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer. I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said Federationism was easy! (huge grin) Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Is there a site with... the history of blind people and what they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread. Josh sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" wrote: Darian: What do you think African-americans would have said during the 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would rather date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black persons dating? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Jedi, Sure-let me see... We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to "visually impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person uses products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille compass, braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people who don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman than a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two blind people dating. Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I would like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is in their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am fine with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told that we are "wrong" for thinking like we do. Does that make sense? Respecgfully, Darian On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: Very good points. We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to remember that there are other minorities out there. How does one member of a minority group address another member of that same group if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should in public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive image of the rest of that group to society? I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with it varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it upon ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model that positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that probably is the healthiest way to approach this idea of perception-changing that we think about alot, Does that make sense? thoughts? On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: Excellent points. I'm going to add to that some. I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness or discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible audience for the blind person in question. This audience is made of both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts like "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I react this or that way? What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress that limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy in the interaction. So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind person to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience concept boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom line is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability to present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to the public. On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it in our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about us. The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. Sure, we want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions of one person. But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about that except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely that the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're all amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception to a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to deconstruct society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all of us based on one person. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap of taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless you're a therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it is not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously said, if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative ways of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows a lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. So if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! That person will either fall hard when they find out their parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs to happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They will either come around in time or they won't. Choice is the key word here. Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to lose out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as soon as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that other person real quick On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view that we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's going to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow er 17%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind j ed i%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %4 0g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 0gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude %40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix. com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 19:57:34 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:57:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4de7eb4e.8c00e50a.7c71.20a6@mx.google.com> No Josh, it has nothing to do with blindness in my opinion, but rather NFB philosophy about blindness. I was surprised as well when I heard that, but come to think of it, it isn't that surprising considering how radical some people think NFB philosophy is. Now I'd like to know, did Dr. Jernigan get a death threat from a sighted person or another blind person who had something against the NFB, like he was diehard ACB, and what was his motive? Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory Wow, Dr. Jernigan? And this might be really ignorant of me, but who is Rommi Rabby? Did I spell that right? Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Jedi wrote: Darian: WE of NFB often compare ourselves to African-americans because we consider ourselves, like them, to be a minority group within the larger society. Certainly, no one would argue that blind people were attacked with fire-hoses or lynched while trying to exercise their rights. I do know of plenty of instances when blind persons were arrested for refusing to move from exit-row seating to which they were legitimately assigned on airplanes and I know of one incident wherein a blind person was severely beaten for being a NFB member. I believe there's a bit about this comparison in Dr. Jernigan's 1976 banquet speech, "Of visions and Vultures". I appreciate your question to clarify the comparison. Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Mike: African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon how they were treated by whites up to that time. It is curious that how african-americans were treated is always one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I wonder, were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully protest the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we safely make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I could be, and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our histories were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on largely different levels. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 19:57:38 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:57:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] iPod Touch 4th Generation 64G Drawing Message-ID: <4de7eb52.8c00e50a.7c71.20aa@mx.google.com> ---- Original Message ------ From: "Mike Freeman" (by way of David Andrews) Subject: [Blindtlk] iPod Touch 4th Generation 64G Drawing Date sent: Sun, 29 May 2011 11:07:50 -0500 The national Federation of the Blind of Washington will hold a drawing, the winner of which will receive an iPod Touch 4th Generation 64G. This iPod is fully accessible. The drawing will take place at noon on July 8, 2011, at the annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind in Orlando, Fl. You do not need to be present to win. Tickets cost $5 each or 5 for $20. If you will not be attending the convention but still wish to enter the drawing, you may send a note giving the number of tickets you wish to purchase, your name and your telephone number and/or email address along with payment to: Michael Freeman; 3101 NE 87th Ave; Vancouver, WA 98662-6832. Your note *must* be accompanied by payment. WE prefer that payment be in the form of a check, Pay to the Order of "the National Federation of the Blind of Washington" or "NFBW". (the NFB of Washington does *not* have PayPal and although I have a personal PayPal account, there's no truly easy/foolproof way to assure the IRS and state authorities governing charities that electronic payments would be used for ticket purchases.) If you have questions, please send them to me, Mike Freeman, at . Good luck! Michael Freeman, President national Federation of the blind of Washington _______________________________________________ blindtlk mailing list blindtlk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid. nusbaum%40gmail.com From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 19:57:36 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 15:57:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4de7eb50.8c00e50a.7c71.20a7@mx.google.com> Well, the same goes for Reagan, Kennedy, and all the other political figures who have been asascinated or have been the victim of asascination attempts. President of the United States, symbol of the country, President of the NFB, symbol of the organized blind movement. Both are associated with a philosophy and an ide, and both of those philosophies and ideas have very passionate opponents throughout the world. Sad, but true. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory Hi Adriana, Although I don't have experience with universities, I would say that people with disabilities will be received somewhat better in larger cities than in smaller ones, only because cities have a larger and more diverse population, therefore the people in those urban environments are a little more experienced in the diverse nature of the population, if you know what I mean. I'm not saying all people in rural areas are closed-minded and have little to no experience with people with disabilities, but that's just a generalization. I live in a small town in Maryland and some people in my area are a little closed-minded and show prejudice against people with disabilities, but I think that there are a lot less prejudices in our town because of the education that I and my family do as well as other families in which a family member has a disability. But don't let the prejudice in rural areas scare you from going there entirely. Dr. Jernigan grew up on a farm in Tenessee, and look what he did. You're going to find prejudice everywhere, sad, but true. There are really prejudiced people in large cities, and I'm sure anyone working at the national headquarters of the NFB in Baltimore can speak to that. If you decide to go to Fayetteville, you might have to do some more educating, that's all. You're probably going to have to do some educating if you go to Tampa or Gainesville or DeKalb. Just more opportunity to spread the NFB's positive philosophy. Hope that helps! Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: ADRIANA PULIDO References: <4DE7B346.8000605@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <101272CBA3B343E0B40AA79C5C81EB92@OwnerPC> Are these used to give answers for tests? Or just assignments? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I clicker Darian, I'd echo what Joseph said-I had to use them a lot last year. It's easier just to have a sighted friend help set up the frequency and, when in a class, just ask the person next to you if the iclicker sent the answer ok or, in some cases, they may have to read the questions if the instructor's lazy like that. But from my experience, people in classes are usually cool with that sort of thing...I've made some new friends that way. *grin* Warmly, Kirt On 6/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > I have used one. The device itself is mostly useable. It has 5 buttons > labeled A through E, and a power button. What it's generally used for > are in class questions and that sort of thing. > > There are a couple things that can be difficult. Setting the frequency > the device communicates on requires you look at the lights on the > device, but a person could just memorize the sequence or else have > someone help them do it. It's not something you have to do often, and I > could talk a person through setting the right frequency without sight if > necessary since I've done it myself a time or ten. > > The only other potential difficulty would be that the device indicates a > successful transmission with a green light and an unsuccessful one with > a blinking red light. That may or may not be a problem for your friend > depending on the situation. Usually the unsuccessful transmission thing > doesn't happen if the device is set to the right frequency and > registered with the base the instructor is using, and the instructor has > the base set up to receive transmissions. > -- > "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box > Joseph C. Lininger, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 21:52:20 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 15:52:20 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: <101272CBA3B343E0B40AA79C5C81EB92@OwnerPC> References: <4DE7B346.8000605@pcdesk.net> <101272CBA3B343E0B40AA79C5C81EB92@OwnerPC> Message-ID: For me it was multiple-choice quizzes in class. On 6/2/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Are these used to give answers for tests? Or just assignments? > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:14 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I clicker > > Darian, > I'd echo what Joseph said-I had to use them a lot last year. It's > easier just to have a sighted friend help set up the frequency and, > when in a class, just ask the person next to you if the iclicker sent > the answer ok or, in some cases, they may have to read the questions > if the instructor's lazy like that. But from my experience, people in > classes are usually cool with that sort of thing...I've made some new > friends that way. *grin* > Warmly, > Kirt > > On 6/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: >> I have used one. The device itself is mostly useable. It has 5 buttons >> labeled A through E, and a power button. What it's generally used for >> are in class questions and that sort of thing. >> >> There are a couple things that can be difficult. Setting the frequency >> the device communicates on requires you look at the lights on the >> device, but a person could just memorize the sequence or else have >> someone help them do it. It's not something you have to do often, and I >> could talk a person through setting the right frequency without sight if >> necessary since I've done it myself a time or ten. >> >> The only other potential difficulty would be that the device indicates a >> successful transmission with a green light and an unsuccessful one with >> a blinking red light. That may or may not be a problem for your friend >> depending on the situation. Usually the unsuccessful transmission thing >> doesn't happen if the device is set to the right frequency and >> registered with the base the instructor is using, and the instructor has >> the base set up to receive transmissions. >> -- >> "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From adrimpc80 at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 22:22:09 2011 From: adrimpc80 at gmail.com (ADRIANA PULIDO) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 17:22:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] An additional question about selecting universety In-Reply-To: <4de7eb68.8c00e50a.7c71.20b7@mx.google.com> References: <4de7eb68.8c00e50a.7c71.20b7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you Chris for sharing your thoughts! 2011/6/2, Chris Nusbaum : > Hi Adriana, > > Although I don't have experience with universities, I would say > that people with disabilities will be received somewhat better in > larger cities than in smaller ones, only because cities have a > larger and more diverse population, therefore the people in those > urban environments are a little more experienced in the diverse > nature of the population, if you know what I mean. I'm not > saying all people in rural areas are closed-minded and have > little to no experience with people with disabilities, but that's > just a generalization. I live in a small town in Maryland and > some people in my area are a little closed-minded and show > prejudice against people with disabilities, but I think that > there are a lot less prejudices in our town because of the > education that I and my family do as well as other families in > which a family member has a disability. But don't let the > prejudice in rural areas scare you from going there entirely. > Dr. Jernigan grew up on a farm in Tenessee, and look what he > did. You're going to find prejudice everywhere, sad, but true. > There are really prejudiced people in large cities, and I'm sure > anyone working at the national headquarters of the NFB in > Baltimore can speak to that. If you decide to go to > Fayetteville, you might have to do some more educating, that's > all. You're > probably going to have to do some educating if you go to Tampa or > Gainesville or DeKalb. Just more opportunity to spread the NFB's > positive philosophy. Hope that helps! > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. > Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for > more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: > nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ADRIANA PULIDO To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date sent: Mon, 30 May 2011 11:25:02 -0500 > Subject: [nabs-l] An additional question about selecting > universety > > Hi all! > > As I told you some time ago, I'm currently choosing a university > to > study a Master's Degree. I have to think about it carefully, > since I'm > going to spend two years there. So far, I have been offered > admision > in the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. According to what > I've > been searching, that city is small and rural. > I also have university optiones at Gainesville, Tampa, Dekalb, > and > philadelphia; but I'm still waiting for them to answer. > Here is the question: > Acorrding to your experience, do you think that people with > disabilities are likely to be better received in big cities than > in > small ones? > Are we more exposed to prejudices in small cities? > > Thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions! > > -- > Adriana Pulido > Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad > Nacional de Colombia. Becaria Fulbright para Maestría. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrimpc80%40gmail.com > -- Adriana Pulido Filóloga en Inglés y músico de la Universidad Nacional de Colombia. Becaria Fulbright para Maestría. From jbahm at pcdesk.net Fri Jun 3 00:19:07 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 18:19:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: <101272CBA3B343E0B40AA79C5C81EB92@OwnerPC> References: <4DE7B346.8000605@pcdesk.net> <101272CBA3B343E0B40AA79C5C81EB92@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4DE8287B.3010805@pcdesk.net> Typically what they're used for is pop quizzes or else in class questions that a professor may set for the students. My chemistry professor used them for example. We were allowed to work in groups to come up with the answer. A correct answer was worth 3 points, an incorrect answer was worth a point, and no answer was worth nothing. I think she did it mostly to ensure people actually showed up and paid attention during class. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 06:16:49 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 00:16:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] downloading attachments with Hotmail Message-ID: <8A5E0C37-899E-4126-8900-FC097AEA27CB@gmail.com> Hey, guys. I'm wondering how to download attachments. My boyfriend had been trying to download from live.com, but alas, it was inaccessible! His college's e-mail address is also inaccessible, and I hate all the graphics and stuff. What we're trying to do is get around the safety blocks in Hotmail, so if there's any way to download from Hotmail directly, that's something I'd like to know. It would help us both a lot. Beth Sent from my iPod From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 08:03:16 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 04:03:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download In-Reply-To: <4de7eb47.8c00e50a.7c71.20a2@mx.google.com> References: <4de7eb47.8c00e50a.7c71.20a2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris And Others! The meeting will not be streamed, it will be available for download though. Streaming of calls will be resumed in August, that's the plan anyway. If anyone has any past recorded convention meetings, I'm happy to put them up on nabslinkaudio.org, but they need to be sent to me. Thanks. >From David On 6/2/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Hi Arielle, > > Do you know if the meeting will be streamed or should I call the > national center? Also, are there any past meetings available for > download on nabslinkaudio.org? Thanks! > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. > Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for > more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: > nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arielle Silverman To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:22:58 -0600 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For > Download > > Hi all, > > I have asked David Dunfy to record this summer's meeting in > Orlando > and he has agreed to do so, so barring any unforeseen technical > problems, the recording should be available shortly after the > convention in July. As for Oregon's student division, I have > been > informed that Chrys Buckley was recently elected president. > Tina, are > you in contact with her? If you would like to talk to someone > about > growing your new division, you can contact Domonique Lawless, > your > regional representative, at > dlawless86 at gmail.com > or contact me at > nabs.president at gmail.com > A few years ago, I compiled some sample state division > constitutions, > meeting agendas, etc. and I'd be glad to share these materials > with > anyone upon request. > > Arielle > > On 5/26/11, Tina Hansen wrote: > I'm in Oregon, and we're attempting to get a student division > off the > ground. At best, I could stop by the student meeting to pick up > any tools > that might help our state. Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres > ident%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 08:04:49 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 04:04:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] downloading attachments with Hotmail In-Reply-To: <8A5E0C37-899E-4126-8900-FC097AEA27CB@gmail.com> References: <8A5E0C37-899E-4126-8900-FC097AEA27CB@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would recommend that you access hotmail from an email client. You can even use your iPod to do that. I haven't used the hotmail site in a long time so can't tell you how to get the attachments, but if you use Windows Mail, Microsoft Outlook or anything else you shouldn't have any problems. On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:16 AM, Beth wrote: > Hey, guys. I'm wondering how to download attachments. My boyfriend had been trying to download from live.com, but alas, it was inaccessible! His college's e-mail address is also inaccessible, and I hate all the graphics and stuff. What we're trying to do is get around the safety blocks in Hotmail, so if there's any way to download from Hotmail directly, that's something I'd like to know. It would help us both a lot. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From iperrault at hotmail.com Fri Jun 3 13:55:17 2011 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 09:55:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Incrfeasing Confidence to travel independently on the Boston, Massachusetts Transit System Message-ID: Hi All, I’m wondering if there is anyone from the Boston area who would be interested in becoming more independent when riding the Boston public transportation system? If so, or if you are unsure and have questions, please e-mail me off list. I’m totally blind myself and have taught a few students how to increase their confidence level, and the results have been positive so let me know! Ian From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 17:01:09 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 10:01:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download In-Reply-To: References: <4de7eb47.8c00e50a.7c71.20a2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello Chris, Just what information are you looking to get from the National Center? on the nabslink audio site, you are able to look at all of the calls that were recorded and were available for download Hope this is helpful, Darian On 6/3/11, David Dunphy wrote: > Hi Chris And Others! > The meeting will not be streamed, it will be available for download though. > Streaming of calls will be resumed in August, that's the plan anyway. > If anyone has any past recorded convention meetings, I'm happy to put > them up on nabslinkaudio.org, but they need to be sent to me. > Thanks. > >From David > > On 6/2/11, Chris Nusbaum wrote: >> Hi Arielle, >> >> Do you know if the meeting will be streamed or should I call the >> national center? Also, are there any past meetings available for >> download on nabslinkaudio.org? Thanks! >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >> www.campabilities.org. >> >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >> www.icanfoundation.info. >> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >> phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. >> Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for >> more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: >> nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Arielle Silverman > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:22:58 -0600 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For >> Download >> >> Hi all, >> >> I have asked David Dunfy to record this summer's meeting in >> Orlando >> and he has agreed to do so, so barring any unforeseen technical >> problems, the recording should be available shortly after the >> convention in July. As for Oregon's student division, I have >> been >> informed that Chrys Buckley was recently elected president. >> Tina, are >> you in contact with her? If you would like to talk to someone >> about >> growing your new division, you can contact Domonique Lawless, >> your >> regional representative, at >> dlawless86 at gmail.com >> or contact me at >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> A few years ago, I compiled some sample state division >> constitutions, >> meeting agendas, etc. and I'd be glad to share these materials >> with >> anyone upon request. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 5/26/11, Tina Hansen wrote: >> I'm in Oregon, and we're attempting to get a student division >> off the >> ground. At best, I could stop by the student meeting to pick up >> any tools >> that might help our state. Thanks. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.pres >> ident%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith “My secret?  See it, and stay focused on it.” — Shaquille O'Neal From gcazares10 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 04:22:10 2011 From: gcazares10 at gmail.com (Gabriel Cazares) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 23:22:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Convention Agenda in Different Formats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For your information. ...Gabe ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Andrews Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 20:46:14 -0500 Subject: [Nfbnet-master-list] NFB Convention Agenda in Different Formats To: nfbnet-master-list at nfbnet.org There seems to be a small cottage industry in converting the NFB National Convention agenda to different formats. Below is information on two such efforts, the first is DAISY -- full text/full audio, and the second is HTML. or you can of course go to http://www.nfb.org and view the agenda there or download the Microsoft Word file. Dave From: Greg Kearney [ mailto:gkearney at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 10:35 PM Subject: 2011 NFB convention agenda in DAISY format As I do every year I have converted the 2011 NFB national convention agenda to DAISY digital talking book format that will play in any standard DAISY playback device and software. Navigation is by major section and by day. This is a full text full audio DAISY digital talking book it will play back on the NLS players as well as other devices. Here is a link to the bibliographic page for the agenda from here you can download the finished book: http://www.guidedogswa.org/Library/openbiblio/shared/biblio_view.php?bibid=1 08851&tab=opac Gregory Kearney | Manager Accessible Media Association for the Blind of WA - Guide Dogs WA PO Box 101, Victoria Park WA 6979 | 61 Kitchener Ave, Victoria Park WA 6100 Tel: 08 9311 8246 | Fax: 08 9361 8696 | www.guidedogswa.com.au Tel: 307-224-4022 (North America) Email: greg.kearney at guidedogswa.com.au Email: gkearney at gmail.com From: Thomas Stivers To: David Andrews Subject: Re: 2011 NFB Convention Agenda If you think this is useful would you please post it to appropriate lists. If it is a problem please let me know that as well. Thanks. I have rewritten the 2011 Convention agenda in plain html with markup designed to make navigation easy on smartphones, laptops, and notetakers while on the run at convention. http://www.nfbaustin.org/2011-national-agenda/ -- Thomas Stivers Website Administrator http://www.nfbaustin.org admin at nfbaustin.org _______________________________________________ Nfbnet-master-list mailing list Nfbnet-master-list at nfbnet.org -- Gabriel M. Cazares, 2nd Vice President Texas Association of Blind Students - TABS (A Division of the National Federation of the Blind of Texas) www.nfb-texas.org/tabs.html Phone: 713-581-0619 "Of course, loyalty to one's friends is an important principle. But so is writing what you believe--otherwise, why bother to write at all?"-Arianna Huffington From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 19:15:41 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 14:15:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB NABS: STEPP/CourseSmart Mainstream Accessible eTextBooks Presentation Message-ID: Please join STEPP for 20 minutes on July 4, 6:15 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS (NABS) At Panzacola G-1 Ballroom, Level 1 STEPP - STudent E-rent Pilot Project Wiki has goals, docs, advisory panel, meeting, agenda, and panel member’s info. http://stepp.gatech.edu/index.php?title=Main_Page STEPP will present, demonstrate (Windows Firefox NVDA and iOS Safari VoiceOver), and discuss http://www.CourseSmart.com eTextBook reader, which is intended for higher education (college/university) professors, students, disabled student services, and anyone in post-secondary education. CourseSmart is very unique, innovative, and now/future. It is world’s largest eTextBooks portal, mainstream, accessible, 60% off textbooks, instant, anywhere, multi-platform, and multi-screen reader support. STEPP look forwards to having the great opportunity, privilege, and honor in presenting, demonstrating, and discussing CourseSmart.com Reader with you. CourseSmart.com has been around since 2007 and accessible since August 2010. STEPP From nabs.president at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 19:46:06 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 13:46:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Special Convention Bulletin! Message-ID: National Association of Blind Students >From the Desk of the President June 4, 2011 Special Bulletin: NFB Convention Highlights Beginning Sunday July 3, members of the National Federation of the Blind will gather in Orlando for the 62nd NFB national convention. The convention promises to be a fun and enriching experience for first-time attendees and veteran members alike. Come to reconnect with old friends and make new ones, to learn about the latest in blindness programs and technology, and to be part of the process of changing what it means to be blind! Attached please find the full schedule of convention activities (the convention agenda). In this bulletin I have included information about NABS activities and a summary of other convention events. Please consult the attached agenda for information about activities not listed here in the bulletin. At the very end of the agenda is some useful information about the layout of our convention hotel and dining options within the hotel and convention center. Our convention hotel, the Rosen Shingle Creek Resort, is located at 9939 Universal Boulevard, Orlando, FL 32819. Hotel phone: (866) 996-9939 Taxi and shuttle service is available to travel between the Orlando airport and the convention hotel. For more information, go to http://www.nfb.org/nfb/National_Convention.asp There you will also find some good general information about the convention, including a guide for first-time attendees. If you have won an NFB scholarship or other convention award, you may be required or invited to attend events not listed here; you will be notified individually about these additional events. At this time the convention hotel rooms are all reserved. If you still need a room, contact your affiliate president to find out if anyone going from your state has a space in their room. If not, then contact me at Nabs.president at gmail.com I look forward to seeing all of you in Orlando! Schedule of Highlighted Convention Activities Sunday July 3, 2011 Sunday features several technology seminars, an art workshop, and an opportunity to test the nonvisual interface of the car being developed in the Blind Driver project. Consult the agenda for details and room locations. There will also be organized games and activities for middle and high school students on Sunday throughout the day. Exact times for these and other teen sessions are listed in the agenda. Finally, there will be an employment seminar from 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. on Sunday. On Sunday evening from 9:00 to midnight, NABS will be hosting a Student Hospitality Night in the Affiliate Action Suite, Room 14230. Drop in for snacks, games, and the chance to meet and mingle with other blind high school, college, graduate and nontraditional students. Feel free to drop in and out while also enjoying karaoke, or the Rookie Roundup, a gathering for first-time convention attendees. Monday July 4, 2011 On Monday both the exhibit hall and the NFB Independence Market will open. Come to the Exhibit Hall to browse information and products from leading assistive technology vendors and to learn about our NFB training centers. Come to the Independence Market to buy canes, watches, and other blindness products and to pick up NFB literature. Both the exhibit hall and the Independence Market will be open on Monday and Tuesday all day and on Wednesday and Thursday during the lunch break. The exhibit hall will also be open Wednesday and Thursday evenings. NABS will have a table in the exhibit hall where we will be selling coffee mugs and raffle tickets, and passing out student information packets. Come see us! Monday is also a good time to pick up your registration materials if you pre-registered, or to purchase them if you didn't. The registration desk will also be open on Tuesday and on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday mornings before the general session. Check the agenda for programs on Monday including the meeting of the Resolutions Committee and the Mock Trial, where the National Association of Blind Lawyers will provide a comical reenactment of a serious legal case involving discrimination against the blind. There will also be a writing workshop for youth ages 11 to 19. On Monday evening from 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. NABS will have its annual business meeting. Come early to register with us, or register online now by going to www.nabslink.org Annual NABS dues, which you will need to pay in order to vote in the elections, are $5. At our meeting we will hear about exciting new developments regarding access to E-textbooks, and we will also hear from a young woman who is a blind electrical engineer. We will also be holding elections. Join our business meeting to learn the latest about issues affecting us as blind students, and become a part of our organization. Tuesday July 5, 2011 On Tuesday morning we will have the national NFB Board of Directors meeting, an open meeting where a variety of announcements about the convention and other general NFB matters will be given. On Tuesday afternoon and evening, a variety of NFB divisions will hold their annual meetings. Many NFB divisions are organized by shared professional interests, such as the National Association of Blind Lawyers, the National Association of Blind Educators, the Science and Engineering Division, and the Human Services Division. Check the agenda to find the division meeting(s) you want to attend. This is a great opportunity to meet blind people working in your field of study and to learn about the latest developments in techniques that can be useful to you in your career. Finally, on Tuesday evening, check out salsa dancing, the indoor rowing workshop and the annual play performed by students at the Louisiana Center for the Blind. All proceeds from the play support the teen summer program at the LCB! Wednesday July 6, 2011 Wednesday is the first of three days of general sessions. A highlight of the Wednesday session is the presidential report, when Dr. Maurer updates us on what the NFB has been doing over the past year and what work is still ahead of us. Check the agenda for a detailed description of the General Session program for Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. On Wednesday evening, the NFB of Florida is hosting a beach-themed dance party. At the same time, there will be a swimming activity for teens ages 11-18. Check the agenda for room locations. Finally, the Colorado Center for the Blind will have an open house where you can go to learn more about their training programs. Thursday July 7, 2011 On Thursday we have more general sessions in the morning and afternoon. On Thursday night NABS will be holding our annual Monte Carlo Night fund-raiser. Pay $10 to purchase chips and play casino-style card games; whoever has the most chips at the end of the night will win a cash prize. The Performing Arts Division is also hosting their annual Showcase of Talent on Wednesday night, and the exhibit hall will be open for the last time. Finally, from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Pearson products will be demonstrating some new products to mae math content more accessible. They’re looking for students to come test the products and give them feedback. Please consider helping out with this initiative. Check the agenda for room location. Friday July 8, 2011 On Friday we will have one final day of general sessions, followed by the banquet in the evening. If you didn’t pre-register for the convention, you can purchase your banquet ticket for $60 during registration. I personally find the banquet and especially Dr. Maurer’s presidential address to be one of the most fun and inspiring parts of the convention. It reminds us of where we the blind of this country have come from, where we are going and that we are all united in the business of changing what it means to be blind. -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2011_Agenda_FINAL.doc Type: application/msword Size: 3041280 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nabs.president at gmail.com Sat Jun 4 20:27:37 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 14:27:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Elections, and Other Things Message-ID: Hello all, I wanted to make a few announcements about this year's elections for the National Association of Blind Students. This year, because we are transitioning to the staggered board called for by our recent constitutional amendment, the terms will be a little different. In this year's election we will be electing the president, second vice-president, and treasurer to a one-year term, and the first vice-president, secretary, and board members 1 and 3 to a two-year term. Board members 2 and 4 were elected to a two-year term last year, so there will only be two board member positions up for election along with all five officer positions. Anyone who plans to be a student during the coming year, and who pays their $5 membership dues before the meeting, is welcome to run for a position. This year we will again be implementing card ballots to ensure that only paid members can vote, that each member votes only once in each contest, and that vote counting is exact and fair. On a related topic, I would like to announce that I have decided not to seek re-election to the presidency this year. As many of you know, I am a doctoral student and approaching the infamous "dissertation stage" of my program. I anticipate that in the next two years most of my time and energy will be taken up by dissertation planning and writing, and by preparing to find my first real job after graduation. I would like to pass on the reins to someone who is able to give NABS the attention and focus the organization deserves. Sean Whalen, currently second vice-president of NABS, has agreed to step up and I fully support his candidacy to become the next NABS president. Sean has done a great deal of work both on the front lines and behind the scenes to support the growth and development NABS has seen over the past two years, and he plans to be a student during the next four years. While I would recommend that he take the position, I am committed to support whomever NABS chooses to elect to the presidency and to the board. As we approach the end of this leadership term, I would like to express my appreciation to those who currently serve on the NABS board, whose names I will list at the bottom of this message. I believe NABS has made great strides forward in the past two years and I can attribute the vast majority of our progress to the dedication and hard work shown by our current board members. While we have grown a lot during the past two years, there is still much more NABS can do in the future to reach out to blind students, to improve educational opportunities for the blind and to build stronger collaborations with the National Federation of the Blind at large. I trust that those of you who are elected to the next NABS board will accomplish this. I have served on the NABS board now for six years, and I will say that it is a great honor to be involved in leading the organization. But it is more than a title-being on the NABS board is an act of service to fellow blind students and to the blind students of the future. Along with the honor of being elected to the NABS board comes responsibility. If you are elected to the NABS board, you will be placed in charge of NABS activities, fund-raisers, or communications, and will serve as a national representative of the organization. NABS will be counting on you to contribute your time and skills. If you would like to run for the NABS board, I'd encourage you to get started in your service to NABS by signing up to help us with staffing the exhibit hall table at convention or working at Monte Carlo night. (There should be a formal sign-up sheet circulated soon). Finally, as we wrap upthis administration of NABS, I'd like to get your feedback. What did we do well, and what could we have done better? Are there new projects you would like to see NABS undertake? Projects you'd be willing to help organize? If you'd like to send me feedback, I can be sure it gets passed along to the next administration, or you can give us your comments on-list. I look forward to seeing you at the convention! Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students NABS board members: Karen Anderson, First Vice-President; Sean Whalen, Second Vice-President; Janice jeang, Secretary; Nijat Worley, Treasurer; Isaiah Wilcox, Board Member; Meghan Whalen, Board Member; Domonique Lawless, Board Member; and Darian Smith, Board Member. From kevinchao89 at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 05:59:49 2011 From: kevinchao89 at gmail.com (Kevin Chao) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 00:59:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] online college vs classroom instruction In-Reply-To: References: <4dd7068d.81a5e60a.15cc.5689@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Blakboard is mostly accessible. In particular, discussion board and exams are mostly screen reader accessible. I've used it over 2 semesters, 7.3 and 9.1 Windows, Mac OS X, and iOS apps. Sent from my iPad On May 20, 2011, at 11:16 PM, wrote: > Josh, > You have a lot to consider with being a student coupled with the wheelchair. > I went to the traditional classroom all through college. I went to a big > state run school and then transferred to a smaller private school, Marymount > university. > No, online college is not more accessible. Things like the discussion board > on Blackboard are problematic, so are the quizzes. > I tried an online class this semester and was very disappointed. Its partly > my learning style. I didn't know what was important to extract from the text > without a class lecture. I wasn't sure what to study for the test. > Assignments seemed a bit ambiguous with the instructions. I just was never > sure what the professor expected. > > What do you want from college? If you want the social aspect, the > independence and living away from home, the increased freedom, the ability > to just go where you want on campus such as a friend's room late at night to > hang out, then stay on campus. Oh, another thing on campus its easier to > see your professors, if you need extra help during office hours; where as if > you are a commuter or online, you can't get to campus as easily. > ] > But if you just want the academics, then online might work. Also what is your study habits? Online classes you are more on your own. You are not in class with a schedule to turn in things and you won't have classmates to study/compare work with; what I mean is with papers, you often get to read each other's work and get suggestions. > > Personally, I see challenges either way. On campus classes will present accessibility challenges since you cannot see the board or screen; so you will want the powerpoints or screen lecture notes sent to you. > But online challenges abound because of graphics, flash content, and blackboard if your school uses it. > > > Regarding access to school due to your wheelchair, I'd check that a lot, even more than the blindness accomodations. The blindness is something minor to accommodate, where as physical disabilities require modifications to the built environment. > > Ensure you can access all classrooms with your wheel chair. Does the school have enough ramp access? Does the school have enough space for your chair to wheel into class? > The law, ADA, requires renovated buildings to be wheel chair accessible. > Unfortunately, some schools including the community college, I'm at now, are not in ADA compliance because either they did not think of it or buildings were built prior to 1990 and were not yet renovated. > > So the law requires access, but if your school was not built with ADA accessibility in mind such as wide door ways, ramps, accessible restrooms, push buttons, etc. you will have a hard time living and moving around campus. So check into that. You could even bring someone sighted and help you look around. That person can check for ramps, push buttons, elevators to each floor, accessible restrooms, and even check the door way width for you. > For ADA compliant wheel chair access door widths need to be 32 inches. But again, if built before 1990 without renovations, buildings are not covered by ADA. > > HTH, > Ashley > > -----Original Message----- From: Josh Gregory > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 8:25 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] online college vs classroom instruction > > Hi all, > I'm a little curious here, what do people think on this? For us > blind students who are about to graduate from high school soon > (I'm a junior this year and will be a senior next) college is > something some of us look into. So, my question: Do people think > that online college is more accessible for blind people, or > classroom instruction? If I may ask, what have people's > experiences been with both? What about a person who is blind and > partially in a wheelchair such as myself, could I manage in an > on-campus environment or would online instruction be better for > me? > Thanks so much, > Josh > > Sent from my Apex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kevinchao89%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 07:06:00 2011 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 00:06:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention Message-ID: <20110605070600.GA23591@yumi.bluecherry.net> Hey everyone, I have been playing with a very cool "backpack alternative" for about two weeks now. If you carry too much stuff with you and are coming to National Convention, I’d be happy to show it to you! As probably most of you who know me are already aware, I tend to carry everything but the kitchen sink around with me. My girlfriend has even threatened to buy me a folding camping sink so that the next time someone asks if I have it, I can respond with, "Actually..." and pull the thing out! It would be SO worth it. *grin* Anyway, there are two problems with a backpack: You can't get at anything in them without stopping to take it off first, and of course a heavy backpack is literally a pain to wear. A sling or messenger bag makes the first problem easier, but makes the second problem much worse. That's where this ingenious device comes in. It's called a BackTPack (that should be read "Back Tee Pack" if your screen reader of choice mangles it.) The company's website is: http://www.backtpack.com/ and the product doesn't cost significantly more than any quality backpack would, making it very much worth a look! The design of the BackTPack is a bit unusual, but completely logical. Essentially it takes your backpack and splits the bag portion in half to make two (relatively) thinner bags. Then it slides these down the straps so they hang more like messenger bags, one on each side. The place where the bag was becomes just a small, flat piece to hold it all together and attach the backpack straps. Like nicer backpacks it has a sternum strap to keep the BackTPack sitting properly on your shoulders. It's way less complicated than it sounds, I promise. The idea behind this arrangement is that it balances the load and places it vertically on your spine, which is the part of your body that is intended to support that kind of weight. It was designed by a physical therapist who saw one too many school kids hunched over carrying the weight of school books. Even a moderately heavy backpack pretty much ensures bad posture and eventually back pain. With the BackTPack, you aren't hunched over or pulled backward or off to either side. This consequently makes it easier to wear for a longer period of time, and the whole thing feels lighter than my backpack for the same contents. If you're wondering if the BackTPack would interfere with using a cane, it doesn't in my experience. I cannot wear messenger and laptop bags on my left side because they interfere with movement of my cane-using arm, but I do not have that problem with the BackTPack at all. The BackTPack website talks about how useful it is when using a service animal, but it's just as useful for a cane user and for the same reason: One of our hands is occupied pretty much all the time! Of course a pack is only as good as what it will let you carry. The size of the bags on the BackTPack vary slightly based on which of the three models you're using, but the smallest size is 13 inches square by 3 inches wide. The medium/large model 3 is 14 inches by 13 inches by 3.5 inches. The bags are soft, so they can fit items that are a little bigger in one of these dimensions, but you're not going to cram a 17 inch MacBook Pro into it. The larger model 3 will hold about a 15.4 inch laptop. It easily swallows netbooks, note takers, iPads with folio cases, etc. If you look into one of the bags, there are pockets about the size of a pen pouch you'd put into a three ring binder. On the wall toward your body, the pocket has a zippered top. On opposite wall, the pocket is sewn into a few pen holders and pocket about four inches wide. The model 2 and 3 bags have a mesh bottle holder pocket as well intended for 16-20 ounce bottles. A Camelbak 25 ounce bottle fits, barely, but the large 32 ounce Nalgene bottles are too wide for the mesh pockets. The other bag mirrors all of the above, and adds a strap with a keyring clip toward the front. Outside, there are two pockets in the front that will hold a cell phone (including larger phones like the iPhone or Blackberry), glasses, or whatever you need. On the outside of each bag is a pocket big enough to carry a men's wallet (which is not what I'd suggest putting there, of course!). On one side, this small pocket has a mesh window for a bus pass or ID badge, should you need one of those. There are two other features which might be really nice, depending on your circumstances. First, if you're going to sit down in chair that has no armrests, a bench, or a seat on a bus that's wide enough, there is no need to take a BackTPack off. There's a strap that hangs down in front on each side called a sit strap. Buckle it and have a seat! All of the weight is taken completely off your shoulders by the sit strap. Plus you know how much space you occupy, so you're unlikely to turn and smack someone with with your backpack. The other feature is a set of elastic loops on the inside of the bag intended for a hip belt, should you desire one. You might find this useful for longer trips. And speaking of elastic, purely as an attention to detail matter, all of the straps have elastic keepers to hold the excess strap so it isn't flopping about or getting tangled. If you'd like to see my BackTPack in person, just let me know! I will be attending the whole Convention. I am staying in the overflow hotel, but I literally take the BackTPack with me everywhere. Just reply off-list to this email or give me a call at 503-610-8709 and we can arrange a time and place. (I'm still going through the agenda trying to determine where all I will be and when, and I'll bet I am not alone in that regard!) And yes, I AM going to be there this year—my state president tells me I am not allowed to suddenly find any scary medical problems that keep me from going. If I find another tumor or something, I won't have to worry about it, because Art is likely to kill me first. *grin* That is assuming of course a few others who have said similar things don't beat him to it. (It's good to know I'm loved, hehe!) See you all there, Joseph From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sun Jun 5 16:49:52 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2011 10:49:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention In-Reply-To: <20110605070600.GA23591@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <20110605070600.GA23591@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4DEBB3B0.5050807@pcdesk.net> Man, too bad it won't take a 17 inch laptop. I've got an HP business notebook with an extended battery, so it almost certainly will not fit. I'll tell you what though, it really is unpleasant carrying all that stuff around sometimes, and I've been looking for a better alternative. I know about the "kitchen sink" problem as you put it. All the junk for my laptop and other devices I carry, (including an extra laptop battery), an extra telescoping cane, papers of various sorts for school and work, and an asortment of other stuff I don't even know about off the top of my head. I think my favorite from a weirdness standpoint is a small set of tools for working on computers. Screw drivers, a couple types of plyers, that sort of thing. That one caused quite a show at the airport a while ago when I completely forgot I had them in there. I removed all the junk that I thought they might flip over, the pocket knife and whatnot. But I forgot about the damn tools. In the end I ended up having to empty my entire bag because I couldn't figure out what could possibly be showing up on their scan. The very last item was that tool set. I just kinda held up the holder with the tools in it, and, in a very sheepish voice said, "I forgot about this." Luckily security thought it was funny rather than being upset about it, but talk about embarrassing. Rolling bags work, but they introduce a completely separate set of propblems as anyone who has used one for long enough could tell you. Oh well, the search continues I suppose. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 16:51:18 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 12:51:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention In-Reply-To: <20110605070600.GA23591@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4debb418.0508dc0a.3b23.1433@mx.google.com> Thanks for sharing! As a massage therapist I also see people with neck shoulder and back pain like a physical therapist does. I will hold on to this website and suggest this as an alternative to changing bags or lightening the load! Thanks Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 3:06 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention Hey everyone, I have been playing with a very cool "backpack alternative" for about two weeks now. If you carry too much stuff with you and are coming to National Convention, I'd be happy to show it to you! As probably most of you who know me are already aware, I tend to carry everything but the kitchen sink around with me. My girlfriend has even threatened to buy me a folding camping sink so that the next time someone asks if I have it, I can respond with, "Actually..." and pull the thing out! It would be SO worth it. *grin* Anyway, there are two problems with a backpack: You can't get at anything in them without stopping to take it off first, and of course a heavy backpack is literally a pain to wear. A sling or messenger bag makes the first problem easier, but makes the second problem much worse. That's where this ingenious device comes in. It's called a BackTPack (that should be read "Back Tee Pack" if your screen reader of choice mangles it.) The company's website is: http://www.backtpack.com/ and the product doesn't cost significantly more than any quality backpack would, making it very much worth a look! The design of the BackTPack is a bit unusual, but completely logical. Essentially it takes your backpack and splits the bag portion in half to make two (relatively) thinner bags. Then it slides these down the straps so they hang more like messenger bags, one on each side. The place where the bag was becomes just a small, flat piece to hold it all together and attach the backpack straps. Like nicer backpacks it has a sternum strap to keep the BackTPack sitting properly on your shoulders. It's way less complicated than it sounds, I promise. The idea behind this arrangement is that it balances the load and places it vertically on your spine, which is the part of your body that is intended to support that kind of weight. It was designed by a physical therapist who saw one too many school kids hunched over carrying the weight of school books. Even a moderately heavy backpack pretty much ensures bad posture and eventually back pain. With the BackTPack, you aren't hunched over or pulled backward or off to either side. This consequently makes it easier to wear for a longer period of time, and the whole thing feels lighter than my backpack for the same contents. If you're wondering if the BackTPack would interfere with using a cane, it doesn't in my experience. I cannot wear messenger and laptop bags on my left side because they interfere with movement of my cane-using arm, but I do not have that problem with the BackTPack at all. The BackTPack website talks about how useful it is when using a service animal, but it's just as useful for a cane user and for the same reason: One of our hands is occupied pretty much all the time! Of course a pack is only as good as what it will let you carry. The size of the bags on the BackTPack vary slightly based on which of the three models you're using, but the smallest size is 13 inches square by 3 inches wide. The medium/large model 3 is 14 inches by 13 inches by 3.5 inches. The bags are soft, so they can fit items that are a little bigger in one of these dimensions, but you're not going to cram a 17 inch MacBook Pro into it. The larger model 3 will hold about a 15.4 inch laptop. It easily swallows netbooks, note takers, iPads with folio cases, etc. If you look into one of the bags, there are pockets about the size of a pen pouch you'd put into a three ring binder. On the wall toward your body, the pocket has a zippered top. On opposite wall, the pocket is sewn into a few pen holders and pocket about four inches wide. The model 2 and 3 bags have a mesh bottle holder pocket as well intended for 16-20 ounce bottles. A Camelbak 25 ounce bottle fits, barely, but the large 32 ounce Nalgene bottles are too wide for the mesh pockets. The other bag mirrors all of the above, and adds a strap with a keyring clip toward the front. Outside, there are two pockets in the front that will hold a cell phone (including larger phones like the iPhone or Blackberry), glasses, or whatever you need. On the outside of each bag is a pocket big enough to carry a men's wallet (which is not what I'd suggest putting there, of course!). On one side, this small pocket has a mesh window for a bus pass or ID badge, should you need one of those. There are two other features which might be really nice, depending on your circumstances. First, if you're going to sit down in chair that has no armrests, a bench, or a seat on a bus that's wide enough, there is no need to take a BackTPack off. There's a strap that hangs down in front on each side called a sit strap. Buckle it and have a seat! All of the weight is taken completely off your shoulders by the sit strap. Plus you know how much space you occupy, so you're unlikely to turn and smack someone with with your backpack. The other feature is a set of elastic loops on the inside of the bag intended for a hip belt, should you desire one. You might find this useful for longer trips. And speaking of elastic, purely as an attention to detail matter, all of the straps have elastic keepers to hold the excess strap so it isn't flopping about or getting tangled. If you'd like to see my BackTPack in person, just let me know! I will be attending the whole Convention. I am staying in the overflow hotel, but I literally take the BackTPack with me everywhere. Just reply off-list to this email or give me a call at 503-610-8709 and we can arrange a time and place. (I'm still going through the agenda trying to determine where all I will be and when, and I'll bet I am not alone in that regard!) And yes, I AM going to be there this year-my state president tells me I am not allowed to suddenly find any scary medical problems that keep me from going. If I find another tumor or something, I won't have to worry about it, because Art is likely to kill me first. *grin* That is assuming of course a few others who have said similar things don't beat him to it. (It's good to know I'm loved, hehe!) See you all there, Joseph _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sun Jun 5 17:00:01 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2011 13:00:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention Message-ID: <4debb628.c6bbe60a.4ab9.37d6@mx.google.com> This sounds cool! Now, if only there were something like this for wheelchairs... I have 2 bags already, and I use my black briefcase type thing for books and such. It's often crammed to the max, and 2 bags (I have a blue one too) is a lot for the back of my chair. Ah well, as Joseph C said, I guess I'll have to keep the search up. Josh sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania Ismail CMT" ,"'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" References: <4debb628.c6bbe60a.4ab9.37d6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: This sounds really really cool. I'll call you at convention-I too am stuck in the overflow hotel but I wanna see this! On 6/5/11, Josh Gregory wrote: > This sounds cool! Now, if only there were something like this for > wheelchairs... I have 2 bags already, and I use my black > briefcase type thing for books and such. It's often crammed to > the max, and 2 bags (I have a blue one too) is a lot for the back > of my chair. Ah well, as Joseph C said, I guess I'll have to > keep the search up. > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania Ismail CMT" To: ,"'National Association of Blind > Students mailing list'" Date sent: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 12:51:18 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention > > Thanks for sharing! As a massage therapist I also see people with > neck > shoulder and back pain like a physical therapist does. > I will hold on to this website and suggest this as an alternative > to > changing bags or lightening the load! > Thanks > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of T. Joseph Carter > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 3:06 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention > > Hey everyone, > > I have been playing with a very cool "backpack alternative" for > about > two weeks now. If you carry too much stuff with you and are > coming > to National Convention, I'd be happy to show it to you! > > As probably most of you who know me are already aware, I tend to > carry everything but the kitchen sink around with me. My > girlfriend > has even threatened to buy me a folding camping sink so that the > next > time someone asks if I have it, I can respond with, "Actually..." > and > pull the thing out! It would be SO worth it. *grin* > > Anyway, there are two problems with a backpack: You can't get at > anything in them without stopping to take it off first, and of > course > a heavy backpack is literally a pain to wear. A sling or > messenger > bag makes the first problem easier, but makes the second problem > much > worse. > > That's where this ingenious device comes in. It's called a > BackTPack > (that should be read "Back Tee Pack" if your screen reader of > choice > mangles it.) The company's website is: http://www.backtpack.com/ > and > the product doesn't cost significantly more than any quality > backpack > would, making it very much worth a look! > > The design of the BackTPack is a bit unusual, but completely > logical. > Essentially it takes your backpack and splits the bag portion in > half > to make two (relatively) thinner bags. Then it slides these down > the > straps so they hang more like messenger bags, one on each side. > The > place where the bag was becomes just a small, flat piece to hold > it > all together and attach the backpack straps. Like nicer > backpacks it > has a sternum strap to keep the BackTPack sitting properly on > your > shoulders. It's way less complicated than it sounds, I promise. > > The idea behind this arrangement is that it balances the load and > places it vertically on your spine, which is the part of your > body > that is intended to support that kind of weight. It was designed > by > a physical therapist who saw one too many school kids hunched > over > carrying the weight of school books. Even a moderately heavy > backpack pretty much ensures bad posture and eventually back > pain. > > With the BackTPack, you aren't hunched over or pulled backward or > off > to either side. This consequently makes it easier to wear for a > longer period of time, and the whole thing feels lighter than my > backpack for the same contents. > > If you're wondering if the BackTPack would interfere with using a > cane, it doesn't in my experience. I cannot wear messenger and > laptop bags on my left side because they interfere with movement > of > my cane-using arm, but I do not have that problem with the > BackTPack > at all. The BackTPack website talks about how useful it is when > using a service animal, but it's just as useful for a cane user > and > for the same reason: One of our hands is occupied pretty much all > the > time! > > Of course a pack is only as good as what it will let you carry. > The > size of the bags on the BackTPack vary slightly based on which of > the > three models you're using, but the smallest size is 13 inches > square > by 3 inches wide. The medium/large model 3 is 14 inches by 13 > inches > by 3.5 inches. The bags are soft, so they can fit items that are > a > little bigger in one of these dimensions, but you're not going to > cram a 17 inch MacBook Pro into it. The larger model 3 will hold > about a 15.4 inch laptop. It easily swallows netbooks, note > takers, > iPads with folio cases, etc. > > If you look into one of the bags, there are pockets about the > size of > a pen pouch you'd put into a three ring binder. On the wall > toward > your body, the pocket has a zippered top. On opposite wall, the > pocket is sewn into a few pen holders and pocket about four > inches > wide. The model 2 and 3 bags have a mesh bottle holder pocket as > well intended for 16-20 ounce bottles. A Camelbak 25 ounce > bottle > fits, barely, but the large 32 ounce Nalgene bottles are too wide > for > the mesh pockets. The other bag mirrors all of the above, and > adds a > strap with a keyring clip toward the front. > > Outside, there are two pockets in the front that will hold a cell > phone (including larger phones like the iPhone or Blackberry), > glasses, or whatever you need. On the outside of each bag is a > pocket big enough to carry a men's wallet (which is not what I'd > suggest putting there, of course!). On one side, this small > pocket > has a mesh window for a bus pass or ID badge, should you need one > of > those. > > There are two other features which might be really nice, > depending on > your circumstances. First, if you're going to sit down in chair > that > has no armrests, a bench, or a seat on a bus that's wide enough, > there is no need to take a BackTPack off. There's a strap that > hangs down in front on each side called a sit strap. Buckle it > and > have a seat! All of the weight is taken completely off your > shoulders by the sit strap. Plus you know how much space you > occupy, > so you're unlikely to turn and smack someone with with your > backpack. > > The other feature is a set of elastic loops on the inside of the > bag > intended for a hip belt, should you desire one. You might find > this > useful for longer trips. > > And speaking of elastic, purely as an attention to detail matter, > all > of the straps have elastic keepers to hold the excess strap so it > isn't flopping about or getting tangled. > > If you'd like to see my BackTPack in person, just let me know! I > will be attending the whole Convention. I am staying in the > overflow > hotel, but I literally take the BackTPack with me everywhere. > Just > reply off-list to this email or give me a call at 503-610-8709 > and we > can arrange a time and place. (I'm still going through the > agenda > trying to determine where all I will be and when, and I'll bet I > am > not alone in that regard!) > > And yes, I AM going to be there this year-my state president > tells me > I am not allowed to suddenly find any scary medical problems that > keep me from going. If I find another tumor or something, I > won't > have to worry about it, because Art is likely to kill me first. > *grin* That is assuming of course a few others who have said > similar > things don't beat him to it. (It's good to know I'm loved, > hehe!) > > See you all there, > > Joseph > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma > il04%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From liziswhatis at hotmail.com Sun Jun 5 19:37:29 2011 From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 14:37:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, To echo what another poster said: accessible touch screens are great, inaccessible touch screens are not. I myself use an iPhone, (love it!), a netbook/laptop and a BrailleNote Apex on a daily basis. Take care, and I hope that helps. Liz Bottner Guiding Eyes Graduate Council GEB Voicemail: 800-942-0149 Ext. 2531 e-mail: liziswhatis at hotmail.com Visit my LiveJournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Philip S Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:19 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi all, I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch screen. How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices adopt this interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the rear, or something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and be as thorough as you wish. Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile phones do you use now? Thanks. Phil _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liziswhatis%40hotmai l.com From jcmunoz1989 at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 00:30:10 2011 From: jcmunoz1989 at gmail.com (Juan Munoz) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:30:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Southern Strums: Seaking performers Message-ID: Dear Federationists, As you all know, Southern Strums is making it’s return to National Convention this year in Orlando, Florida. It is with great pleasure to announce that we are now accepting auditions for performances. Any genre and anyone may participate, provided that a few criteria are met, as well as if you are accepted to perform. This is what we are looking for: • Individual and group performances will be accepted. • AN audio sample for auditioning purposes is needed (one song will be enough, but you may submit more if you wish.) • Accompaniments may only be in the form of live instruments and or other people. Backing tracks from CDs are discouraged. We want to showcase your talent and that of your partner or partners where applicable. • At least a fifteen-minute set, but no more than thirty minutes, is required. • The date or dates you would be available to perform (July 2, 3, or 4) • If you do more than one night, we ask that you make each set at least a little different to spice things up for our audience. The most common genres we get are folk and country, but a little something new and different always makes things that much more interesting. We know there are plenty of you out there who love music and relish or at least entertain the idea of performing in front of an audience. Let us know who you are, and you may very well get your chance. If you have any questions, or want to discuss further, send an e-mail to jcmunoznfb at gmail.com and we will gladly assist you. We need your help to make Southern Strums a huge success as always. So break out those recorders and send in your auditions. We look forward to hearing from you, and seeing you at convention. -- Respectfully, Juan Carlos Munoz President Texas Association of Blind Students www.nfbtx.org/tabs From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 02:08:54 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 19:08:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Membership call: Getting Ready for National Convention! Message-ID: Introducing the Nabs Membership call for June: "It's All About Convention 2011!"    Whether you have been to the National Federation of the Blind's National Convention before or this year will be your first time going, come and hear all about what makes convention fun, informative and an experience you will most likely never forget!  Join guest speakers Karen Anderson and Sean Whalen, who will be on hand to give you an overview of the convention week, and   what events the National Association of Blind Students will be taking part in and how you can help. Bring your convention experiences, stories and questions! When: Sunday, June 12, 6:00 PM Eastern. Where: Conference call: (712) 775-7100, passcode 257963. Your Nabs Membership Committee From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 05:49:11 2011 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 22:49:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention In-Reply-To: <4debb628.c6bbe60a.4ab9.37d6@mx.google.com> References: <4debb628.c6bbe60a.4ab9.37d6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20110606054911.GH23591@yumi.bluecherry.net> The BackTPack unfortunately is not very good for wheelchair users because while the bags won't interfere with a cane or a dog, they do interfere with getting to your wheels. My dear GF is a wheelchair user and she is having strain problems lately associated with digging her laptop out of the backpack on her wheelchair. There are wheelchair-specific bags, but they all seem to have that fundamental bucket in the back of your chair that you have to twist around to get to. We are (read: I am) looking for something better for her. Joseph On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 01:00:01PM -0400, Josh Gregory wrote: >This sounds cool! Now, if only there were something like this for >wheelchairs... I have 2 bags already, and I use my black briefcase >type thing for books and such. It's often crammed to the max, and 2 >bags (I have a blue one too) is a lot for the back of my chair. Ah >well, as Joseph C said, I guess I'll have to keep the search up. >Josh > >sent from my Apex >Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rania Ismail CMT" To: ,"'National Association of Blind >Students mailing list'" Date sent: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 12:51:18 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention > >Thanks for sharing! As a massage therapist I also see people with >neck >shoulder and back pain like a physical therapist does. >I will hold on to this website and suggest this as an alternative to >changing bags or lightening the load! >Thanks >Rania, > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >Behalf >Of T. Joseph Carter >Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 3:06 AM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention > >Hey everyone, > >I have been playing with a very cool "backpack alternative" for about >two weeks now. If you carry too much stuff with you and are coming >to National Convention, I'd be happy to show it to you! > >As probably most of you who know me are already aware, I tend to >carry everything but the kitchen sink around with me. My girlfriend >has even threatened to buy me a folding camping sink so that the next >time someone asks if I have it, I can respond with, "Actually..." and >pull the thing out! It would be SO worth it. *grin* > >Anyway, there are two problems with a backpack: You can't get at >anything in them without stopping to take it off first, and of course >a heavy backpack is literally a pain to wear. A sling or messenger >bag makes the first problem easier, but makes the second problem much >worse. > >That's where this ingenious device comes in. It's called a BackTPack >(that should be read "Back Tee Pack" if your screen reader of choice >mangles it.) The company's website is: http://www.backtpack.com/ and >the product doesn't cost significantly more than any quality backpack >would, making it very much worth a look! > >The design of the BackTPack is a bit unusual, but completely logical. >Essentially it takes your backpack and splits the bag portion in half >to make two (relatively) thinner bags. Then it slides these down the >straps so they hang more like messenger bags, one on each side. The >place where the bag was becomes just a small, flat piece to hold it >all together and attach the backpack straps. Like nicer backpacks it >has a sternum strap to keep the BackTPack sitting properly on your >shoulders. It's way less complicated than it sounds, I promise. > >The idea behind this arrangement is that it balances the load and >places it vertically on your spine, which is the part of your body >that is intended to support that kind of weight. It was designed by >a physical therapist who saw one too many school kids hunched over >carrying the weight of school books. Even a moderately heavy >backpack pretty much ensures bad posture and eventually back pain. > >With the BackTPack, you aren't hunched over or pulled backward or off >to either side. This consequently makes it easier to wear for a >longer period of time, and the whole thing feels lighter than my >backpack for the same contents. > >If you're wondering if the BackTPack would interfere with using a >cane, it doesn't in my experience. I cannot wear messenger and >laptop bags on my left side because they interfere with movement of >my cane-using arm, but I do not have that problem with the BackTPack >at all. The BackTPack website talks about how useful it is when >using a service animal, but it's just as useful for a cane user and >for the same reason: One of our hands is occupied pretty much all the >time! > >Of course a pack is only as good as what it will let you carry. The >size of the bags on the BackTPack vary slightly based on which of the >three models you're using, but the smallest size is 13 inches square >by 3 inches wide. The medium/large model 3 is 14 inches by 13 inches >by 3.5 inches. The bags are soft, so they can fit items that are a >little bigger in one of these dimensions, but you're not going to >cram a 17 inch MacBook Pro into it. The larger model 3 will hold >about a 15.4 inch laptop. It easily swallows netbooks, note takers, >iPads with folio cases, etc. > >If you look into one of the bags, there are pockets about the size of >a pen pouch you'd put into a three ring binder. On the wall toward >your body, the pocket has a zippered top. On opposite wall, the >pocket is sewn into a few pen holders and pocket about four inches >wide. The model 2 and 3 bags have a mesh bottle holder pocket as >well intended for 16-20 ounce bottles. A Camelbak 25 ounce bottle >fits, barely, but the large 32 ounce Nalgene bottles are too wide for >the mesh pockets. The other bag mirrors all of the above, and adds a >strap with a keyring clip toward the front. > >Outside, there are two pockets in the front that will hold a cell >phone (including larger phones like the iPhone or Blackberry), >glasses, or whatever you need. On the outside of each bag is a >pocket big enough to carry a men's wallet (which is not what I'd >suggest putting there, of course!). On one side, this small pocket >has a mesh window for a bus pass or ID badge, should you need one of >those. > >There are two other features which might be really nice, depending on >your circumstances. First, if you're going to sit down in chair that >has no armrests, a bench, or a seat on a bus that's wide enough, >there is no need to take a BackTPack off. There's a strap that >hangs down in front on each side called a sit strap. Buckle it and >have a seat! All of the weight is taken completely off your >shoulders by the sit strap. Plus you know how much space you occupy, >so you're unlikely to turn and smack someone with with your backpack. > >The other feature is a set of elastic loops on the inside of the bag >intended for a hip belt, should you desire one. You might find this >useful for longer trips. > >And speaking of elastic, purely as an attention to detail matter, all >of the straps have elastic keepers to hold the excess strap so it >isn't flopping about or getting tangled. > >If you'd like to see my BackTPack in person, just let me know! I >will be attending the whole Convention. I am staying in the overflow >hotel, but I literally take the BackTPack with me everywhere. Just >reply off-list to this email or give me a call at 503-610-8709 and we >can arrange a time and place. (I'm still going through the agenda >trying to determine where all I will be and when, and I'll bet I am >not alone in that regard!) > >And yes, I AM going to be there this year-my state president tells me >I am not allowed to suddenly find any scary medical problems that >keep me from going. If I find another tumor or something, I won't >have to worry about it, because Art is likely to kill me first. >*grin* That is assuming of course a few others who have said similar >things don't beat him to it. (It's good to know I'm loved, hehe!) > >See you all there, > >Joseph > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaisma >il04%40gmai >l.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 >2%40gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 06:02:17 2011 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 23:02:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention In-Reply-To: <4debb418.0508dc0a.3b23.1433@mx.google.com> References: <20110605070600.GA23591@yumi.bluecherry.net> <4debb418.0508dc0a.3b23.1433@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20110606060216.GK23591@yumi.bluecherry.net> Very cool Rania! I'm not an employee or anything, I just have been really excited about the thing because it works so well. Joseph On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:51:18PM -0400, Rania Ismail CMT wrote: >Thanks for sharing! As a massage therapist I also see people with neck >shoulder and back pain like a physical therapist does. >I will hold on to this website and suggest this as an alternative to >changing bags or lightening the load! >Thanks >Rania, > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of T. Joseph Carter >Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 3:06 AM >To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >Subject: [nabs-l] Backpack alternative at convention > >Hey everyone, > >I have been playing with a very cool "backpack alternative" for about >two weeks now. If you carry too much stuff with you and are coming >to National Convention, I'd be happy to show it to you! > >As probably most of you who know me are already aware, I tend to >carry everything but the kitchen sink around with me. My girlfriend >has even threatened to buy me a folding camping sink so that the next >time someone asks if I have it, I can respond with, "Actually..." and >pull the thing out! It would be SO worth it. *grin* > >Anyway, there are two problems with a backpack: You can't get at >anything in them without stopping to take it off first, and of course >a heavy backpack is literally a pain to wear. A sling or messenger >bag makes the first problem easier, but makes the second problem much >worse. > >That's where this ingenious device comes in. It's called a BackTPack >(that should be read "Back Tee Pack" if your screen reader of choice >mangles it.) The company's website is: http://www.backtpack.com/ and >the product doesn't cost significantly more than any quality backpack >would, making it very much worth a look! > >The design of the BackTPack is a bit unusual, but completely logical. >Essentially it takes your backpack and splits the bag portion in half >to make two (relatively) thinner bags. Then it slides these down the >straps so they hang more like messenger bags, one on each side. The >place where the bag was becomes just a small, flat piece to hold it >all together and attach the backpack straps. Like nicer backpacks it >has a sternum strap to keep the BackTPack sitting properly on your >shoulders. It's way less complicated than it sounds, I promise. > >The idea behind this arrangement is that it balances the load and >places it vertically on your spine, which is the part of your body >that is intended to support that kind of weight. It was designed by >a physical therapist who saw one too many school kids hunched over >carrying the weight of school books. Even a moderately heavy >backpack pretty much ensures bad posture and eventually back pain. > >With the BackTPack, you aren't hunched over or pulled backward or off >to either side. This consequently makes it easier to wear for a >longer period of time, and the whole thing feels lighter than my >backpack for the same contents. > >If you're wondering if the BackTPack would interfere with using a >cane, it doesn't in my experience. I cannot wear messenger and >laptop bags on my left side because they interfere with movement of >my cane-using arm, but I do not have that problem with the BackTPack >at all. The BackTPack website talks about how useful it is when >using a service animal, but it's just as useful for a cane user and >for the same reason: One of our hands is occupied pretty much all the >time! > >Of course a pack is only as good as what it will let you carry. The >size of the bags on the BackTPack vary slightly based on which of the >three models you're using, but the smallest size is 13 inches square >by 3 inches wide. The medium/large model 3 is 14 inches by 13 inches >by 3.5 inches. The bags are soft, so they can fit items that are a >little bigger in one of these dimensions, but you're not going to >cram a 17 inch MacBook Pro into it. The larger model 3 will hold >about a 15.4 inch laptop. It easily swallows netbooks, note takers, >iPads with folio cases, etc. > >If you look into one of the bags, there are pockets about the size of >a pen pouch you'd put into a three ring binder. On the wall toward >your body, the pocket has a zippered top. On opposite wall, the >pocket is sewn into a few pen holders and pocket about four inches >wide. The model 2 and 3 bags have a mesh bottle holder pocket as >well intended for 16-20 ounce bottles. A Camelbak 25 ounce bottle >fits, barely, but the large 32 ounce Nalgene bottles are too wide for >the mesh pockets. The other bag mirrors all of the above, and adds a >strap with a keyring clip toward the front. > >Outside, there are two pockets in the front that will hold a cell >phone (including larger phones like the iPhone or Blackberry), >glasses, or whatever you need. On the outside of each bag is a >pocket big enough to carry a men's wallet (which is not what I'd >suggest putting there, of course!). On one side, this small pocket >has a mesh window for a bus pass or ID badge, should you need one of >those. > >There are two other features which might be really nice, depending on >your circumstances. First, if you're going to sit down in chair that >has no armrests, a bench, or a seat on a bus that's wide enough, >there is no need to take a BackTPack off. There's a strap that >hangs down in front on each side called a sit strap. Buckle it and >have a seat! All of the weight is taken completely off your >shoulders by the sit strap. Plus you know how much space you occupy, >so you're unlikely to turn and smack someone with with your backpack. > >The other feature is a set of elastic loops on the inside of the bag >intended for a hip belt, should you desire one. You might find this >useful for longer trips. > >And speaking of elastic, purely as an attention to detail matter, all >of the straps have elastic keepers to hold the excess strap so it >isn't flopping about or getting tangled. > >If you'd like to see my BackTPack in person, just let me know! I >will be attending the whole Convention. I am staying in the overflow >hotel, but I literally take the BackTPack with me everywhere. Just >reply off-list to this email or give me a call at 503-610-8709 and we >can arrange a time and place. (I'm still going through the agenda >trying to determine where all I will be and when, and I'll bet I am >not alone in that regard!) > >And yes, I AM going to be there this year-my state president tells me >I am not allowed to suddenly find any scary medical problems that >keep me from going. If I find another tumor or something, I won't >have to worry about it, because Art is likely to kill me first. >*grin* That is assuming of course a few others who have said similar >things don't beat him to it. (It's good to know I'm loved, hehe!) > >See you all there, > >Joseph > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai >l.com > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Thu Jun 2 14:27:00 2011 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 09:27:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110601231359.01ddda48@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Ashley, Some of the functioning of Window-Eyes and JFW are very similar and some are somewhat different. It is really hard to give you a comprehensive list of commands, and it really makes more sense for you to explain more how you will be using Window-Eyes on the job. The biggest difference for most people is that Window-eyes does not toggle the cursor keys between JAWS and APPLICATION functions as JFW does. This is a feature that those of us who use Window-Eyes tend to like and JFW users tend to hate. I never understood why, if we have two sets of navigation keys, why JFW insists on toggling both sets between JAWS cursor and the Windows cursor. Anyway, with Window-Eyes, the Numeric keypad controls the equivelent of the JAWS cursor all the time and the middle set of navigation keys remains connected to the application. What would probably be worth your time is to download the latest Window-Eyes demo and start experimenting with it and reading it's manual. While both programs have many of the same capabilities, they don't both assign them to keys. You could find a JFW command that is not assigned in Window-Eyes and you may need to assign it. I think Window-Eyes still has a JFW configuration, but I frankly think that is a waste of time unless you are only going to use Window-Eyes on the job for a short period of time. You are better off using the Window-Eyes default layout so that the manual makes sense and so you can get help from others. However, I think most of the keys you mentioned do have equivelents. I am a Window-Eyes user and would be glad to answer more questions, but some questions and answers will depend upon exactly which applications you are using. to answer some of your specific questions, one needs to know if you mean with the JAWS Cursor active or the Applications cursor? Anyway, changing screen readers or learning to use two different ones is not an easy task. We all like the one we know the best or learned first the best, but if you are required to use Window-Eyes you'll have to do what you can to put your natural biases asside since they won't help you learn. Both screen readers are good, but they are different, and they tend to have different strengths. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 23:23:28 -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >Hi, Ashley, > I too, use WE but do not readily remember specific reading >commands. Instead, I usually simply use the arrow keys and >controlleft/down left/right, which are Windows commands and are >therefore, somewhat universal. >Others may have some more sound advice for Ashley, like something >specific to navigate within WE. >Sorry I am not more helpful, but reverting to basics may save you. . >22 PM 6/1/2011, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >>Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >>At least I can change it to elloquence. >> >>So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading commands I mean. >>I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws that >>is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current line, >>current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >> >>How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >>through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >>choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen reader thing. >> >>I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >>you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >>Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >>insert f7: links list. >>insert f5: headings list >>Insert f9: frames list >>H: headings >>C: combo box >>R: radio button >>B: button >>In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command is >>Control insert tab. >> >>Thanks for any tips. >>Ashley >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 20:42:22 2011 From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:42:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Community Service division Organizing Meeting Message-ID: Come Join a group of federationests at the community service division organizing meeting at national convention! Come learn about the goals of this new exciting division, and how we can utilize community service to further the goals of the national federation of the blind. We will meet on Sunday, July 3 at 4p.m.(check convention ajenda for location) and the meeting will last until 6p.m. Should you have any questions, please contact Coordinator Darian Smith at dsmithnfb at gmail.comm. From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Jun 7 23:14:07 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 23:14:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is About To Return With A New Online Station In-Reply-To: <11D530ADF6154D8F9A881A588A65E5C2@audioaccess1PC> Message-ID: <2105074973.1276014.1307488447896.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> dear david, thanks as always for sending this note to me and also to the list. i will in the next few days send this out to all of my family and friends so that they know of this exciting news! i will definately will be there for the breakout party of audio access radio on jusne 13th with big bells on for sure... thanks again and, i will talk to you soon! hugs always, amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Sent: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 05:28:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is About To Return With A New Online Station Hello Everybody! Please spread the word to anyone you think would want to know the following: After months of being away from online radio so that I could regroup after the terrible circumstances that took me off the air in December of 2010, I am happy to report that I am back in the game, The Djd Invasion is about to return sounding better than ever before, and with that will come my last and final attempt to provide you an online radio station! As just stated, this means the return of The Djd Invasion and other shows that you've come to enjoy from stations I've run in the past. However, many of the fun features of my past sites have been upgraded to be better than ever, and we have some exciting new programs and broadcasters to provide to you too! Also, from August forward, you’ll be able to hear the National Association Of Blind Students Membership Committee conference calls streamed live as they’re happening once again. You’ll still go to http://www.nabslinkaudio.org but the calls will be aired on our new servers, supporting broadband and dialup users, and allowing us as a division to reach many new people, both blind and sighted alike. And there will be a specialized version of our station site for those wishing to listen to shows and archives via phone. Select a show you like, jump from archive to archive, and give feedback to each dj through comment lines and so much more. We’re pulling out all the stops! Once our station launches, our exciting new site will give you A show schedule where you can select your time zone for viewing the schedule so you’ll always know when your show will air in your local time, whether here or abroad The opportunity for you to join our team if you wish Listen to our shows using a variety of media players Missed a show? Subscribe to its podcast, listen to shows when they’re replayed, and get notifications by email, twitter, or text message when your favorite show is ready for download And more... Can’t give everything away, can we! So when do we launch you might ask? Head on over to http://www.audioaccessradio.com right now to hear our exciting press release announcing our official launch date of June 13 2011! >From that page, you can hear the announcement, and hear how you can follow us so you can be there, from the pre launch presentation to our kick off party! While there, make sure to subscribe to our listeners list so you can be notified about shows and other events Feel free to check us out on twitter too, simply follow audioaccess1 I can promise you that with the resources I have at my disposal right now, this will be the best project that I am able to give you. So spread the word, get in touch, and join us for our exciting launch! I hope to see you there! Best wishes to all, David Dunphy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From dandrews at visi.com Tue Jun 7 23:34:23 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 18:34:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: 2 Webinars: Free Software to Read and Write DAISY Content Message-ID: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Prof Norm Coombs >Subject: 2 Webinars: Free Software to Read and Write DAISY Content >To: ITD-JNL at listserv.icors.org > >While campuses are a bit slow in moving to producing alternative content in >the DAISY format, the 3 major resources for books for people with >disabilities: >1. National Library Service, Library of Congress >2 RFB&D now called Learning Ally >3 Bookshare.org > >Tools that work well for producing large books or large numbers of books in >DAISY are a bit expensive and purchased mainly by institutions. >However, there is an open source, free, software player called, AMIS >There also is a free add-in for Word that will convert properly designed >Word documents into DAISY. > > > > > >Webinar: AMIS: the Free, Open Source Software DAISY Player > >Presenter: Marisa DeMeglio, Software Developer for the DAISY Consortium >June 21 at 11 AM Pacific, Noon Mountain, 1 PM Central and 2 PM Eastern > > > >Free Webinar: Word to DAISY Add-in Thur. June 30 >Free Webinar: Word to DAISY Add-in Thur. June 30 > >Times: 11 AM Pacific, Noon Mountain, 1 PM Central, 2 Eastern and 8 in >Barcelona (all Daylight) > > >Presenters: Professor Mireia Ribera, PhD in Library Science from >Universitat de Barcelona >Afra Pascual, BS in Computer Human Interaction from Universitat de Lleida > > >read more and register for these 2 free Webinars in late June: >http://easi.cc/clinic.htm > > >Times: 11 AM Pacific, Noon Mountain, 1 PM Central, 2 Eastern and 8 in >Barcelona (all Daylight) > > > > > >Presenters: Professor Mireia Ribera, PhD in Library Science from >Universitat de Barcelona >Afra Pascual, BS in Computer Human Interaction from Universitat de Lleida > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >Once you choose hope, anything's possible. Christopher Reeve >Norman Coombs norm.coombs at gmail.com > >Making Online Teaching Accessible: Inclusive Course Design for Students >with Disabilities by Norman Coombs published by Jossey-Bass Oct 10,2010 >http://www.josseybass.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470499044.html > >----------------------- >Check out EASI's New Synchronous Clinics: >http://easi.cc/clinic.htm > >EASI Home Page http://www.rit.edu/~easi >Online Courses and Clinics http://easi.cc/workshop.htm From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Jun 7 23:36:59 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 23:36:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1407031654.1276963.1307489819206.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> dear phil, as to my regards to touch screen accessibility and how it has worked for me in lucitrice! i have tried to use it at the grocery store and also at the airport for checking for my boarding pass and seat arrangement. they aren't voice activated. the one at the grocery store is particially accessible with voice activation but, not for all of the features of doing self serve checkout service. this needs to all be accessible for all to use these not just the sighted. that's my voice on this topic. thanks for asking and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip S To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Tue, 31 May 2011 07:18:55 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Your thoughts on touch screen Hi all, I'm doing research and am curious to know your thoughts on touch screen. How do you feel about touch screen as more and more devices adopt this interface? Do you love it, embrace it, hate it, a pain in the rear, or something in between...? Please share how you feel about it and be as thorough as you wish. Also, what kind of notetaker, PDA, mobile devices and mobile phones do you use now? Thanks. Phil _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Jun 7 23:41:19 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 23:41:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1539532320.1277192.1307490079629.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello david, thanks for clarifyling this all to us in your lengthly message. that's awesome that the nabs seminar to be held at national convention will be on the web site. that's awesome news.... i might be coming to national convention but, i don't know yet! but, if not then listening it on the web site will be just as awesome! thanks again for doing this for nabs and, i will talk to you soon! hugs always, amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 16:25:24 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download Let me just clarify.. First off, sorry the links for the training centers appeared that way in email. I have a feeling unless your email is set to display html it'll be weird like that. Yes, APril is the most recent call sadly. Ironic that technology would fail in a technology conference. But as I also said, I'll be working with the membership committee to get the audio sounding better, get the recordings to not fail like that as has happened at times, and most importantly, to make it so these calls can be heard live as they're happening as it was when this project first started. I can tell you now that the meeting from National Convention will be on the nabslinkaudio.org site as one large download, unless people want it broken up, but that will be much harder to set up with our archival system as it is now. >From David _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Jun 7 23:44:07 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 23:44:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] important message concerning nabslink audio and recent membership calls In-Reply-To: <44041A17395043BE824A280A6ED2FF1F@audioaccess1PC> Message-ID: <1621285639.1277303.1307490247319.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> thanks david for the update on the streaming of nabs audio and the situation in regards to them. thanks again and, i will talk to you soon. hugs, amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 03:05:08 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] important message concerning nabslink audio and recent membership calls Hi All! This is an important piece of information concerning the most recent nabs calls and their availability, so please take a moment to read this. 1. The March Call: The March call on center summer programs is about to be sent out to you again. The call was put in to two parts, so I’ve combined them both in to one, so that will be coming your way shortly. 2. The April call on NFB philosophy will be sent to you right after. 3. To those of you who requested to be notified by text message on your phone when an archive is working, you should get two messages, one per call. This won’t normally happen, as we generally don’t upload two calls at a time, but in this case, this is what has happened. If you wish to receive notifications of membership calls being available for download, please email djdrocks4ever at gmail.com with your name, number, and cell phone carrier. This info will not be disclosed to anyone, it is only inserted in to the script that powers our podcast system, which I just updated to incorporate these new features. 4. Lastly, my PC decided not to record the May call on technology. I apologize for this. I will be working with the membership committee to make some changes to not only improve the audio of these calls and to make sure they are up a little more consistently but to make it so they can be heard live online as they are happening again. Keep an eye on email for further details. Please don’t hesitate to contact me should you have any questions. All the best, David Dunphy _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Wed Jun 8 00:03:17 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 00:03:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Why Did I Join Nabs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <355696365.1278092.1307491397299.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello darron and all, thanks for posting this topic to the list... why i joined nabs was back in 2000 when i began my college career which was a long time ago. i didn't know any blind students in my state or in this country so i emailed the president of the student division and, then i attened my first nabs conference in 2000 where i met many and many blind students across this nation. i also had a hand in beginning a student division in my home state of michigan as well too! after i joined nabs i joineed the listserv where i have mmet many friends and also made many personal relationships too! i have gotten advice from you all and, also have given advice and put my two cents worth where it needs to be and not to be... i also began on reading the student slate back issues and all the recent issues too and, i have trried to contribute stories as well too for publication but, have no success in them. i have also helped at national convention for nabs for it's seminars as a marshall nad did whatever needed to be done for the division. so, that's why i joined nabs have stayted here for the long run! thanks again and, i will talk to you all soon! hugs, amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Wed, 25 May 2011 01:31:15 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Why Did I Join Nabs? Hey all, I am just wondering, what made you want to be a part of nabs? Yes, This is a large Division, made of a network of divisions and more to the point lots of us students. So what made you want to be involved with nabs? This could be anything from why do you post messages on the list? why you go to conference calls? meetings at Washington Seminar or National Convention? Or...Why do you contribute to the student slate, read the student slate, are a part of your state division. If I didn't cover it all then feel free to point out what I missed. Thanks! Darian p.s. I am seriously curious :) -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. — Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Wed Jun 8 00:12:04 2011 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 00:12:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] online college vs classroom instruction In-Reply-To: <4dd7068d.81a5e60a.15cc.5689@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <291499245.1278497.1307491924390.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello josh, thanks for your interest in going to college either by doing online classes or going to class in person. to assist you i have never really taken classes online but, i have tried it with a latin class which i was able to do but, i had to drop it since i wasn't com[prehend the material and, i couldn't get a tutor for the class. i have mainly done onsight classes. whatever you decide to do do it for your needs only not for just for other needs. if you want to take online classes than do it but, if you want to do onsight classes than do it! whatever you decide to do it will benefit you in the long run! thanks for the information and, i wish you good luuck in your academic career! hugs, amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Gregory To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Sent: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:25:00 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] online college vs classroom instruction Hi all, I'm a little curious here, what do people think on this? For us blind students who are about to graduate from high school soon (I'm a junior this year and will be a senior next) college is something some of us look into. So, my question: Do people think that online college is more accessible for blind people, or classroom instruction? If I may ask, what have people's experiences been with both? What about a person who is blind and partially in a wheelchair such as myself, could I manage in an on-campus environment or would online instruction be better for me? Thanks so much, Josh Sent from my Apex _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From revacanti at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 00:46:18 2011 From: revacanti at gmail.com (Rachael Vacanti) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 18:46:18 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] National Convention Roommate Message-ID: Hey NABS, Rachael here from Omaha, Nebraska. So, girls I'm looking for a roommate for convention. If anyone from any state can help me out, or has room please let me know. If your room has four and you guys are okay with it, I'll pay for a rollaway bed for myself. Please let me know. All I need is a name, confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit card number. If your staying at Shingle Creek hotel from the 2nd-8th of July, please let me know. Thanks! Rachael Vacanti From agrima at nbp.org Wed Jun 8 14:01:55 2011 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 10:01:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] June Braille Book Club Selection: Ferdinand! Message-ID: <002301cc25e4$a093e540$e1bbafc0$@org> June 2011 Book Club Selection The Story of Ferdinand By Munro Leaf Print/braille edition, $7.99 In contracted braille Ages 4-8 What else can be said about the fabulous Ferdinand? All the other bulls would run and jump and butt their heads together. But Ferdinand would rather sit and smell the flowers. So what will happen when our pacifist hero is accidentally picked for the bullfights in Madrid? Ferdinand's day in the arena gives readers not only an education in the historical tradition of bullfighting, but also a lesson in nonviolent tranquility. The Story of Ferdinand closes with one of the happiest endings in the history of happy endings - readers of all ages will drift off dreaming of sweet-smelling flowers and contented cows. To order or read more about this book online, visit http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/BC1106-FERDINAND.html And don't miss our excellent Father's Day gifts: Braille "Dad" or "Daddy" key chains! Order soon to get them in time for June 19th. Check out the key chains at: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/KEYCHAIN-DAD.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 520. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . From iperrault at hotmail.com Wed Jun 8 14:27:22 2011 From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 10:27:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Increasing one's confidence to travel independently on the Boston Transit System Message-ID: Hi All, I’m wondering if there is anyone who is either from the Boston area, or who will be staying here for a length of time, who would be interested in becoming more independent when riding the Boston public transportation system. If so, or if you are unsure and have questions, please e-mail me off list. I’m totally blind myself and have taught a few blind students how to increase their confidence level, and the results have been positive because they are now using the system and are loving it! So let me know and we can talk! Ian Ian From brownbears at mchsi.com Wed Jun 8 19:25:42 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:25:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away Message-ID: <6630B9E1B4DD48F2834042935B8E4CBA@MIRANDA> Greetings Everyone: The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets for a Vacation Get-A-Away. This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency to use anywhere of your choice. We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October 29, 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa table at National Convention. But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go quickly. I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get your tickets before they are all gone. If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may contact me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. Sincerely, Miranda Morse NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman From brownbears at mchsi.com Wed Jun 8 19:26:53 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:26:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away Raffle Message-ID: <58752A4A39FF49F198E808858315B205@MIRANDA> Greetings Everyone: The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets for a Vacation Get-A-Away. This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency to use anywhere of your choice. We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October 29, 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa table at National Convention. But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go quickly. I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get your tickets before they are all gone. If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may contact me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. Sincerely, Miranda Morse NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman From brownbears at mchsi.com Wed Jun 8 19:28:08 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:28:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-Away Raffle Message-ID: <92E6C31D937D4E61A793E771FBF809D9@MIRANDA> Greetings Everyone: The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets for a Vacation Get-A-Away. This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency to use anywhere of your choice. We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October 29, 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa table at National Convention. But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go quickly. I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get your tickets before they are all gone. If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may contact me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. Sincerely, Miranda Morse NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman From brownbears at mchsi.com Wed Jun 8 19:26:13 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:26:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away Raffle Message-ID: <10557AB8409C47D3BB67D69D62DA3C4A@MIRANDA> Greetings Everyone: The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets for a Vacation Get-A-Away. This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency to use anywhere of your choice. We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October 29, 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa table at National Convention. But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go quickly. I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get your tickets before they are all gone. If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may contact me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. Sincerely, Miranda Morse NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 19:48:30 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:48:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away Raffle In-Reply-To: <10557AB8409C47D3BB67D69D62DA3C4A@MIRANDA> References: <10557AB8409C47D3BB67D69D62DA3C4A@MIRANDA> Message-ID: Your message is being sent to the list every few minutes... On Jun 8, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Miranda Morse wrote: > Greetings Everyone: > > The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets for a Vacation Get-A-Away. > > This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency to use anywhere of your choice. > > We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October 29, 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. > > We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. > > Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa table at National Convention. > > But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go quickly. I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get your tickets before they are all gone. > > If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may contact me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. > > Sincerely, > Miranda Morse > NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From brownbears at mchsi.com Wed Jun 8 21:11:02 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:11:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away Raffle References: <10557AB8409C47D3BB67D69D62DA3C4A@MIRANDA> Message-ID: <39DF7EF184AB4AE09A315BDF5F2170BD@MIRANDA> Sorry, about that my email is doing some crazy stuff at the moment. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ignasi Cambra" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away Raffle > Your message is being sent to the list every few minutes... > On Jun 8, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Miranda Morse wrote: > >> Greetings Everyone: >> >> The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets >> for a Vacation Get-A-Away. >> >> This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency >> to use anywhere of your choice. >> >> We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October >> 29, 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. >> >> We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. >> >> Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa >> table at National Convention. >> >> But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go >> quickly. I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get >> your tickets before they are all gone. >> >> If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may >> contact me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. >> >> Sincerely, >> Miranda Morse >> NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brownbears%40mchsi.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 23:40:19 2011 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:40:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away In-Reply-To: <6630B9E1B4DD48F2834042935B8E4CBA@MIRANDA> References: <6630B9E1B4DD48F2834042935B8E4CBA@MIRANDA> Message-ID: I have a question. Where will the raffle tickets be sold at the national convention? I'd like to purchase a couple and will be at the convention. ~Jewel On 6/8/11, Miranda Morse wrote: > Greetings Everyone: > > The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets for > a Vacation Get-A-Away. > > This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency to > use anywhere of your choice. > > We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October 29, > 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. > > We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. > > Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa > table at National Convention. > > But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go quickly. > I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get your > tickets before they are all gone. > > If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may contact > me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. > > Sincerely, > Miranda Morse > NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From brownbears at mchsi.com Thu Jun 9 00:31:43 2011 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda Morse) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:31:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away References: <6630B9E1B4DD48F2834042935B8E4CBA@MIRANDA> Message-ID: They will be at the Iowa table in the exhibit hall, or if you find someone from Iowa they should have some to. Miranda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Vacation Get-A-Away >I have a question. Where will the raffle tickets be sold at the > national convention? I'd like to purchase a couple and will be at the > convention. > > ~Jewel > > On 6/8/11, Miranda Morse wrote: >> Greetings Everyone: >> >> The National Federation of the Blind of Iowa are selling raffle tickets >> for >> a Vacation Get-A-Away. >> >> This is a $3,500.00 Gift Certificate from Allen Vacations Travel Agency >> to >> use anywhere of your choice. >> >> We will be holding the drawing at our annual state convention on October >> 29, >> 2011 in Mason City Iowa, and you need not be present to win. >> >> We are only selling 2500 tickets so your chance to win is very good. >> >> Tickets are being sold for $10 a chance and will be available at the Iowa >> table at National Convention. >> >> But I would not wait with only 2500 tickets being sold they will go >> quickly. >> I want to stress you need not be present to win so hurry and get your >> tickets before they are all gone. >> >> If you have any questions or would like to purchase a ticket you may >> contact >> me off list at brownbears at mchsi.com. >> >> Sincerely, >> Miranda Morse >> NFB of Iowa Fundraising Chairman >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brownbears%40mchsi.com From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Jun 9 07:08:41 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 02:08:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out blog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, Please check out my latest blog at: http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2011/06/09/blindness-facts-often-are-f iction/ Bridgit P From trising at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 9 13:31:48 2011 From: trising at sbcglobal.net (trising at sbcglobal.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:31:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out blog References: Message-ID: Your blogs are all absolutely fabulous! Thanks for sharing. Terri Wilcox -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 134 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 15:29:50 2011 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 11:29:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Short social Skills conversation Message-ID: Hey all, I will be doing a presentation on social skills for NOPBC this convention. In preparation, I want to talk to students between the ages 12-18, to discuss some social challenges you've faced, things you wished you could have known, things that your parents might have been able to help with, and how you have created a healthy social nitch for yourself. Please email me off list if you are willing to talk to me for a little bit. I truly appreciate your helps. Sincerely, -- Mary Fernandez President: Georgia Association of Blind Students Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 "It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing it." Terry Pratchett From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 17:04:11 2011 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 11:04:11 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Short social Skills conversation Message-ID: <4df0fd41.09cfe70a.7e92.1ed1@mx.google.com> E-mail me off list, Mary. I'd like to talk to talk to you. I'd be happy to discuss my social life with you. thebluesisloose at gmail.com Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Fernandez Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek and Dr. Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez wrote: I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place. However, you could do worse than to read Dr. Floyd Matson's book, "Walking Alone and marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS Web-braille site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, James McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council of the Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites. It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB convention banquet speechdes of Drs. tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer. I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said Federationism was easy! (huge grin) Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Gregory Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Is there a site with... the history of blind people and what they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread. Josh sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Freeman" wrote: Darian: What do you think African-americans would have said during the 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would rather date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black persons dating? Mike -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Jedi, Sure-let me see... We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to "visually impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person uses products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille compass, braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people who don't utilize these things seem lesser for not. I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman than a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two blind people dating. Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I would like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is in their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am fine with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told that we are "wrong" for thinking like we do. Does that make sense? Respecgfully, Darian On 5/26/11, Darian Smith wrote: Very good points. We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to remember that there are other minorities out there. How does one member of a minority group address another member of that same group if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should in public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive image of the rest of that group to society? I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with it varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it upon ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model that positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that probably is the healthiest way to approach this idea of perception-changing that we think about alot, Does that make sense? thoughts? On 5/26/11, Jedi wrote: Excellent points. I'm going to add to that some. I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness or discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible audience for the blind person in question. This audience is made of both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts like "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I react this or that way? What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress that limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy in the interaction. So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind person to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience concept boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom line is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability to present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to the public. On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it in our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about us. The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility. Sure, we want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions of one person. But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about that except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely that the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're all amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception to a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to deconstruct society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all of us based on one person. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap of taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless you're a therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it is not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously said, if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative ways of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows a lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves. So if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them! That person will either fall hard when they find out their parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs to happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They will either come around in time or they won't. Choice is the key word here. Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to lose out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as soon as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that other person real quick On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero wrote: I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view that we get from the public in general. Most people who are sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills set that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to be independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes, rock, hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group that's going to display such a view that is negative to the public, we fall right behind that. Am I making sense? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepow er 17%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind j ed i%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %4 0g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix .com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb %40g mail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace "The purpose of life is a life of purpose. - Robert Byrne _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%4 0gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40p anix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz ydude%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert echjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu sbaum%40gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: June Braille Forum.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 59773 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: June Braille Forum.txt Type: application/octet-stream Size: 50074 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: June Braille Forum.brf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 49985 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dandrews at visi.com Thu Jun 9 20:42:23 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 15:42:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Chris: While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. David Andrews, List Owner At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a >little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum >(ACB's magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille >Forum. Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their >convention in Reno, please especially take time to read the >President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there >what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek and Dr. >Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too >much? Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Thu Jun 9 21:36:55 2011 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:36:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out my blog Message-ID: Thank you so much. I appreciate your support. I try to represent the blind community as best, but also fairly, as I can. Bridgit Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:31:48 -0400 From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Check out blog Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Your blogs are all absolutely fabulous! Thanks for sharing. Terri Wilcox From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jun 9 22:22:28 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:22:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Hey NABS Girls, If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who spends time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. All I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, girls, let me know as soon as possible please. Rachael Vacanti From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 22:48:42 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:48:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Ashley, You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Hi all, > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > At least I can change it to elloquence. > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > commands I mean. > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > reader thing. > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > insert f7: links list. > insert f5: headings list > Insert f9: frames list > H: headings > C: combo box > R: radio button > B: button > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > is > Control insert tab. > > Thanks for any tips. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From carlymih at earthlink.net Thu Jun 9 22:59:50 2011 From: carlymih at earthlink.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 15:59:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609155803.01c1c100@earthlink.net> Hi, I know whatcha mean about the Apple speech. I learned to type on a 2e in the early nineties and when i got my DecTalk Express in '95 I was shocked at how much better the quality was! for today, CarAt 03:48 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >Ashley, > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > >On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Nusbaum > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > > > Chris > > > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > > www.campabilities.org. > > > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > > www.icanfoundation.info. > > > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > > C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > > Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > > to see you at the game!!! > > > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > Hi all, > > > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > > Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > > At least I can change it to elloquence. > > > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > > commands I mean. > > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > > that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > > reader thing. > > > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > > you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > > insert f7: links list. > > insert f5: headings list > > Insert f9: frames list > > H: headings > > C: combo box > > R: radio button > > B: button > > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > > is > > Control insert tab. > > > > Thanks for any tips. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > > sbaum%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 23:08:21 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:08:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Do you mean Fred and the rest of them? On Jun 9, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Ashley, > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >> www.campabilities.org. >> >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >> www.icanfoundation.info. >> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >> to see you at the game!!! >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >> At least I can change it to elloquence. >> >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >> commands I mean. >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >> >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >> reader thing. >> >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >> insert f7: links list. >> insert f5: headings list >> Insert f9: frames list >> H: headings >> C: combo box >> R: radio button >> B: button >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >> is >> Control insert tab. >> >> Thanks for any tips. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 23:16:49 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:16:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> David: With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing view is he? Is he telling us to join the ACB? No, and I take that as harmless. Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by future leaders anyway? Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we not open to discussion on this? Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden threat in reading a politically contrary paper? I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, but just once won't hurt anyone will it? Jorge On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > Chris: > > While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > > David Andrews, List Owner > > > > At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek and Dr. >> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Jun 9 23:56:17 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:56:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com><3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning the computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to understand. Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands Ashley, You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Hi all, > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > At least I can change it to elloquence. > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > commands I mean. > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > reader thing. > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > insert f7: links list. > insert f5: headings list > Insert f9: frames list > H: headings > C: combo box > R: radio button > B: button > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > is > Control insert tab. > > Thanks for any tips. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 00:00:22 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:00:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: Jorge, I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning the > computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to understand. > Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Ashley, > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >> www.campabilities.org. >> >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >> www.icanfoundation.info. >> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >> to see you at the game!!! >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >> At least I can change it to elloquence. >> >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >> commands I mean. >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >> >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >> reader thing. >> >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >> insert f7: links list. >> insert f5: headings list >> Insert f9: frames list >> H: headings >> C: combo box >> R: radio button >> B: button >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >> is >> Control insert tab. >> >> Thanks for any tips. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 00:12:17 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:12:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Jorge, > I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning the >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to understand. >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> Ashley, >> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* >> >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Chris Nusbaum >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>> >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >>> www.campabilities.org. >>> >>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >>> www.icanfoundation.info. >>> >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >>> to see you at the game!!! >>> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >>> At least I can change it to elloquence. >>> >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >>> commands I mean. >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >>> >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >>> reader thing. >>> >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >>> insert f7: links list. >>> insert f5: headings list >>> Insert f9: frames list >>> H: headings >>> C: combo box >>> R: radio button >>> B: button >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >>> is >>> Control insert tab. >>> >>> Thanks for any tips. >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 01:02:10 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:02:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> Message-ID: David, I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" Sincerely, Kirt On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > David: > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing view > is he? > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > No, and I take that as harmless. > > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by > future leaders anyway? > > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we not > open to discussion on this? > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > > Jorge > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> Chris: >> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >> >> David Andrews, List Owner >> >> >> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>> TenBroek and Dr. >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From carlymih at earthlink.net Fri Jun 10 01:21:46 2011 From: carlymih at earthlink.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 18:21:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609181927.01d5e920@earthlink.net> Hi, We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef between the consumer organizations. There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! Car: >David, > I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > Sincerely, >Kirt > >On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > David: > > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > > > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing view > > is he? > > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > > No, and I take that as harmless. > > > > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by > > future leaders anyway? > > > > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must > > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and > say we will > > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and > > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of > > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > > > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and > are we not > > open to discussion on this? > > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden > > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > > > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > > > > > Jorge > > > > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > >> Chris: > >> > >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, > >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This > >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the > >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >> > >> David Andrews, List Owner > >> > >> > >> > >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little > >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although > >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from > >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > >>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? > >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 01:26:46 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:26:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E@gmail.com> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? Yet we encourage distributing it. I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being distributed for free would they? Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not good" for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > David, > I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > Sincerely, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> David: >> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >> >> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing view >> is he? >> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >> No, and I take that as harmless. >> >> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >> future leaders anyway? >> >> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will >> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and >> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of >> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >> >> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we not >> open to discussion on this? >> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden >> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >> >> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >> >> >> Jorge >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> Chris: >>> >>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>> >>> David Andrews, List Owner >>> >>> >>> >>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little >>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From carlymih at earthlink.net Fri Jun 10 01:33:29 2011 From: carlymih at earthlink.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 18:33:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> Samantha, sounds right. Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with perfect Paul! Car: >I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. > > >On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > Jorge, > > I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > > much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > > voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > > > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first > learning the > >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > understand. > >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Kirt Manwaring > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Ashley, > >> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > >> > >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Chris Nusbaum > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>> > >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >>> www.campabilities.org. > >>> > >>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >>> www.icanfoundation.info. > >>> > >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >>> to see you at the game!!! > >>> > >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >>> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >>> > >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >>> commands I mean. > >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >>> > >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >>> reader thing. > >>> > >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >>> insert f7: links list. > >>> insert f5: headings list > >>> Insert f9: frames list > >>> H: headings > >>> C: combo box > >>> R: radio button > >>> B: button > >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >>> is > >>> Control insert tab. > >>> > >>> Thanks for any tips. > >>> Ashley > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >>> sbaum%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 01:37:39 2011 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:37:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <26FBC135-29DD-41D2-8712-6DAAA16F7375@gmail.com> Yes indeed, it is Samantha. The voices on the iPhone are Nuance voices. On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:33 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > > Samantha, sounds right. > Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with perfect Paul! > Car: >> I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >> > Jorge, >> > I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I >> > much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the >> > voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. >> > >> > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning the >> >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to understand. >> >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Kirt Manwaring >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> >> >> Ashley, >> >> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >> >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* >> >> >> >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> >>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Chris Nusbaum >> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >>> >> >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >> >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >> >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >> >>> >> >>> Chris >> >>> >> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >> >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >> >>> www.campabilities.org. >> >>> >> >>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >> >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >> >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >> >>> www.icanfoundation.info. >> >>> >> >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >> >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >> >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >> >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >> >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >> >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >> >>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >> >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >> >>> to see you at the game!!! >> >>> >> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>> > >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >>> >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> >> >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >> >>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >> >>> At least I can change it to elloquence. >> >>> >> >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >> >>> commands I mean. >> >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >> >>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >> >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >> >>> >> >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >> >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >> >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >> >>> reader thing. >> >>> >> >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >> >>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >> >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >> >>> insert f7: links list. >> >>> insert f5: headings list >> >>> Insert f9: frames list >> >>> H: headings >> >>> C: combo box >> >>> R: radio button >> >>> B: button >> >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >> >>> is >> >>> Control insert tab. >> >>> >> >>> Thanks for any tips. >> >>> Ashley >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>> for nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> >>> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jun 10 02:30:48 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 21:30:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have an open mind and I don't need you lecturing to me. My point was that such a discussion isn't the purpose of this list. Dave At 06:16 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >David: >With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >opposing view is he? >Is he telling us to join the ACB? >No, and I take that as harmless. > >Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought >up by future leaders anyway? > >Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, >so must our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy >and say we will follow it until we die for if the target changes, >then so must our aim--and we should be open to anything and consider >all as long as our principles of blind independence and first class >citizenship are not at risk. > >You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and >are we not open to discussion on this? >Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a >hidden threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > >Jorge > > >On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > Chris: > > > > While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > inappropriate, and not in step with the purpose of this list. This > is not a debating society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute > the Braille Forum. This list is for NABS and blind students, not > to discuss the founding of the ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > > > > David Andrews, List Owner > > > > > > > > At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone > a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille > Forum (ACB's magazine) by email. I will attach this month's > Braille Forum. Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics > of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read > the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see > there what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek and Dr. > >> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the > United States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the > pot too much? Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jun 10 02:33:49 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 21:33:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609181927.01d5e920@earthlink.net> References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110609181927.01d5e920@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they disagreed with the way things were done by us. Dave At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >Hi, > >We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef >between the consumer organizations. >There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >Car: >>David, >> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >> Sincerely, >>Kirt >> >>On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> > David: >> > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >> > >> > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >> opposing view >> > is he? >> > Is he telling us to join the ACB? >> > No, and I take that as harmless. >> > >> > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >> > future leaders anyway? >> > >> > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >> > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >> > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and >> say we will >> > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must >> our aim--and >> > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >> principles of >> > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >> > >> > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, >> and are we not >> > open to discussion on this? >> > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >> > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there >> is a hidden >> > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >> > >> > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >> > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >> > >> > >> > Jorge >> > >> > >> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> > >> >> Chris: >> >> >> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >> >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >> >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >> >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >> >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >> >> >> >> David Andrews, List Owner >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort >> zone a little >> >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >> >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >> >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >> >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >> >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >> >>> TenBroek and Dr. >> >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >> >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >> >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 02:36:55 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:36:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110609181927.01d5e920@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6ADD8FA5-B59B-4B17-B07F-732EBF980EF0@gmail.com> > Car: Read the ACB website under "about us" and "history" and some NFB documents (i forget where I found them), they describe the conflict quite in detail. On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:33 PM, David Andrews wrote: > I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they disagreed with the way things were done by us. > > Dave > > At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >> Hi, >> >> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef between the consumer organizations. >> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >> Car: >>> David, >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>> Sincerely, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> > David: >>> > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >>> > >>> > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing view >>> > is he? >>> > Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>> > No, and I take that as harmless. >>> > >>> > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>> > future leaders anyway? >>> > >>> > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>> > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >>> > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will >>> > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and >>> > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of >>> > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >>> > >>> > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we not >>> > open to discussion on this? >>> > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>> > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden >>> > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >>> > >>> > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>> > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >>> > >>> > >>> > Jorge >>> > >>> > >>> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> > >>> >> Chris: >>> >> >>> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>> >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>> >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>> >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>> >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>> >> >>> >> David Andrews, List Owner >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>> >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little >>> >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>> >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>> >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>> >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>> >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>> >>> TenBroek and Dr. >>> >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>> >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>> >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Fri Jun 10 02:39:56 2011 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:39:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate References: Message-ID: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Rachael and everyone, Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 and she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay with us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends those red flags flying high in our minds! I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes treat them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay with them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with them at 1:30 in the morning! This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went very wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping everyone has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachael Vacanti" To: Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate Hey NABS Girls, If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who spends time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. All I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, girls, let me know as soon as possible please. Rachael Vacanti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 02:44:47 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:44:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E@gmail.com> References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jorge, I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other things. I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who they're dealing with in the political arena. Respectfully, Kirt On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > > Yet we encourage distributing it. > > I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > distributed for free would they? > > > Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not good" > for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > > > > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> David, >> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >> Sincerely, >> Kirt >> >> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> David: >>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >>> >>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing >>> view >>> is he? >>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>> No, and I take that as harmless. >>> >>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>> future leaders anyway? >>> >>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so >>> must >>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we >>> will >>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our >>> aim--and >>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles >>> of >>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >>> >>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we >>> not >>> open to discussion on this? >>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a >>> hidden >>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >>> >>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >>> >>> >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>> Chris: >>>> >>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>>> >>>> David Andrews, List Owner >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a >>>>> little >>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. >>>>> Although >>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 02:50:02 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:50:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <175DDA44-838F-41F7-A9A2-934DFEB21819@gmail.com> Hi Kirt: Yes--perhaps you're right. Unfortunately I've met waay too many people who go on trying to shield fellow NFB members from the ACB, and seeing as the tensions are still high in many regards, I thought this might be a reason--not so much to raise any points but to stay out of any trouble. And you're right, we have pretty much debated other issues to death so… anyway, I'll go before I get called out by David again. Jorge On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Jorge, > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > things. > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > they're dealing with in the political arena. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? >> >> Yet we encourage distributing it. >> >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being >> distributed for free would they? >> >> >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not good" >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> David, >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>> Sincerely, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> David: >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >>>> >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing >>>> view >>>> is he? >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. >>>> >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>>> future leaders anyway? >>>> >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so >>>> must >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we >>>> will >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our >>>> aim--and >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles >>>> of >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >>>> >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we >>>> not >>>> open to discussion on this? >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a >>>> hidden >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >>>> >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chris: >>>>> >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>>>> >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a >>>>>> little >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. >>>>>> Although >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 03:00:02 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:00:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dave, I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one concern. Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would have been more willing to network with other blind students in the Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this question not fit to be discussed here. Respectfully, Kirt On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Jorge, > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > things. > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > they're dealing with in the political arena. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? >> >> Yet we encourage distributing it. >> >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being >> distributed for free would they? >> >> >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not >> good" >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> David, >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>> Sincerely, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> David: >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >>>> >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing >>>> view >>>> is he? >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. >>>> >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up >>>> by >>>> future leaders anyway? >>>> >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so >>>> must >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we >>>> will >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our >>>> aim--and >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>>> principles >>>> of >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >>>> >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are >>>> we >>>> not >>>> open to discussion on this? >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a >>>> hidden >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >>>> >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chris: >>>>> >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is >>>>> inappropriate, >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. >>>>> This >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of >>>>> the >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>>>> >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a >>>>>> little >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. >>>>>> Although >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column >>>>>> from >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too >>>>>> much? >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > From serena.c.cucco at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 03:31:05 2011 From: serena.c.cucco at gmail.com (Serena Cucco) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:31:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9DB7C35B04DA455A976F3BDBF6D912D8@SerenaPC> I don't think David Andrews was trying to keep us from talking about the history between the organizations. I think he didn't approve of the distribution of the ACB's magazine on this list, which is pretty much for the NFB, although we don't exclude ACB students. I think Dave's objectin is simply cuz he still considers the ACB our enemy. Similar to countries at war. Yeah, the civil war is over, but the leadership cannot forget it. It's possible he was also concerned that Chris was trying to convert people into the ACB by distributing the magazine on this list. Knowing Chris a little from the list, I doubt this was his intention, although I can see why David might've thought so. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:00 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Dave, I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one concern. Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would have been more willing to network with other blind students in the Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this question not fit to be discussed here. Respectfully, Kirt On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Jorge, > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > things. > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > they're dealing with in the political arena. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? >> >> Yet we encourage distributing it. >> >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being >> distributed for free would they? >> >> >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not >> good" >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> David, >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>> Sincerely, >>> Kirt >>> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> David: >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >>>> >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing >>>> view >>>> is he? >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. >>>> >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up >>>> by >>>> future leaders anyway? >>>> >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so >>>> must >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we >>>> will >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our >>>> aim--and >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>>> principles >>>> of >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >>>> >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are >>>> we >>>> not >>>> open to discussion on this? >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a >>>> hidden >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >>>> >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chris: >>>>> >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is >>>>> inappropriate, >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. >>>>> This >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of >>>>> the >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>>>> >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a >>>>>> little >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. >>>>>> Although >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column >>>>>> from >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too >>>>>> much? >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae z%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae z%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma il.com >> > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jun 10 03:38:02 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:38:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: References: <4df12562.a2ae340a.3d7b.40fe@mx.google.com> <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C@gmail.com> <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I will say two things, and then ask everybody to just move on. Frankly what I objected the most was attaching three versions of the Braille Forum to a message. It just isn't necessary for the discussion of one article. and ... in general I think I run things with a pretty light hand -- the other endless debates prove that, but when I do say something why is it that everybody feels compelled to argue with me.? Dave >Dave, > I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on >this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one >concern. > Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the >purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. > For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the >two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is >absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom >having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why >there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two >organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't >understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I >studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest >factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't >these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to >this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would >have been more willing to network with other blind students in the >Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there >were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but >bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil >war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the >two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. > So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to >blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what >we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, >why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? >What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've >debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it >matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this >question not fit to be discussed here. > Respectfully, >Kirt > >On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > Jorge, > > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > > things. > > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > > they're dealing with in the political arena. > > Respectfully, > > Kirt > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > >> > >> Yet we encourage distributing it. > >> > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > >> distributed for free would they? > >> > >> > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > >> good" > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > >>> David, > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>>> David: > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>> > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing > >>>> view > >>>> is he? > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>> > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > >>>> by > >>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>> > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > >>>> must > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we > >>>> will > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > >>>> aim--and > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > >>>> principles > >>>> of > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>> > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are > >>>> we > >>>> not > >>>> open to discussion on this? > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > >>>> hidden > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>> > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Chris: > >>>>> > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > >>>>> inappropriate, > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > >>>>> This > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > >>>>> the > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > >>>>>> Although > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > >>>>>> from > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > >>>>>> much? > >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! From dandrews at visi.com Fri Jun 10 03:45:59 2011 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:45:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <9DB7C35B04DA455A976F3BDBF6D912D8@SerenaPC> References: <9DB7C35B04DA455A976F3BDBF6D912D8@SerenaPC> Message-ID: I am flattered that you consider me to be a leader -- but you shouldn't attribute motives to me that may or may not be true. I do not consider the ACB to be the enemy, I don't always agree with them, and I am not about to join. they probably keep us honest and we do the same for them Dave >I don't think David Andrews was trying to keep us from talking about the >history between the organizations. I think he didn't approve of the >distribution of the ACB's magazine on this list, which is pretty much for >the NFB, although we don't exclude ACB students. I think Dave's objectin is >simply cuz he still considers the ACB our enemy. Similar to countries at >war. Yeah, the civil war is over, but the leadership cannot forget it. >It's possible he was also concerned that Chris was trying to convert people >into the ACB by distributing the magazine on this list. Knowing Chris a >little from the list, I doubt this was his intention, although I can see why >David might've thought so. > >Serena > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Kirt Manwaring >Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:00 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > >Dave, > I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on >this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one >concern. > Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the >purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. > For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the >two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is >absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom >having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why >there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two >organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't >understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I >studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest >factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't >these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to >this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would >have been more willing to network with other blind students in the >Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there >were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but >bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil >war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the >two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. > So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to >blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what >we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, >why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? >What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've >debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it >matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this >question not fit to be discussed here. > Respectfully, >Kirt > >On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > Jorge, > > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > > things. > > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > > they're dealing with in the political arena. > > Respectfully, > > Kirt > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > >> > >> Yet we encourage distributing it. > >> > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > >> distributed for free would they? > >> > >> > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > >> good" > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > >>> David, > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>>> David: > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>> > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing > >>>> view > >>>> is he? > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>> > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > >>>> by > >>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>> > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > >>>> must > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we > >>>> will > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > >>>> aim--and > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > >>>> principles > >>>> of > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>> > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are > >>>> we > >>>> not > >>>> open to discussion on this? > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > >>>> hidden > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>> > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Chris: > >>>>> > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > >>>>> inappropriate, > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > >>>>> This > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > >>>>> the > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > >>>>>> Although > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > >>>>>> from > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > >>>>>> much? > >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 06:19:18 2011 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:19:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> Message-ID: <20110610061917.GI21333@yumi.bluecherry.net> The ones from the System 7 era? That are still in Mac OS X 10.7 coming out next month for old times' sake? ;) Besides Alex which has had some additional tuning, 10.7 has the option of three Nuance voices—Samantha, Tom, and Jill. There are also a collection of international voices. Joseph On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 04:48:42PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >Ashley, > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > >On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Nusbaum >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >> >> Chris >> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >> www.campabilities.org. >> >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >> www.icanfoundation.info. >> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >> to see you at the game!!! >> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >> At least I can change it to elloquence. >> >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >> commands I mean. >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >> >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >> reader thing. >> >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >> insert f7: links list. >> insert f5: headings list >> Insert f9: frames list >> H: headings >> C: combo box >> R: radio button >> B: button >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >> is >> Control insert tab. >> >> Thanks for any tips. >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 06:21:50 2011 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:21:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20110610062149.GJ21333@yumi.bluecherry.net> My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream. She still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile version of Tom. I do prefer full version of Samantha, though. Joseph On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > >Samantha, sounds right. >Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha >and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who >has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the >standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with >perfect Paul! >Car: >>I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. >> >> >>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >> >>> Jorge, >>> I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I >>> much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the >>> voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. >>> >>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first >>learning the >>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to >>understand. >>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>> >>>> Ashley, >>>> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* >>>> >>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>> >>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >>>>> www.campabilities.org. >>>>> >>>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >>>>> www.icanfoundation.info. >>>>> >>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >>>>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >>>>> to see you at the game!!! >>>>> >>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >>>>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence. >>>>> >>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >>>>> commands I mean. >>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >>>>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >>>>> >>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >>>>> reader thing. >>>>> >>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >>>>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >>>>> insert f7: links list. >>>>> insert f5: headings list >>>>> Insert f9: frames list >>>>> H: headings >>>>> C: combo box >>>>> R: radio button >>>>> B: button >>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >>>>> is >>>>> Control insert tab. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any tips. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From dianefilipe at peoplepc.com Fri Jun 10 13:16:10 2011 From: dianefilipe at peoplepc.com (Diane) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:16:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate In-Reply-To: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: I also was questioning this Peter. Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed? If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed... D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "Mary Donahue" Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > Hello Rachael and everyone, > > Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room > with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 > and > she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay > with > us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends > those red flags flying high in our minds! > > I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national > convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes > treat > them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay > with > them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with > them at 1:30 in the morning! > > This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went very > wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't > want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year > due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping everyone > has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachael Vacanti" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > Hey NABS Girls, > > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who > spends > time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. > All > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit > card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, > girls, let me know as soon as possible please. > > Rachael Vacanti > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 14:37:04 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:37:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate In-Reply-To: References: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Possibly what the individual she spoke with at the hotel told her. at any rate, I hope this person finds a roomate, I would hate to see someone not be able to benifit from the admosphere, activity, and energy that is our national conventionn - that's what counts here. Darian On 6/10/11, Diane wrote: > I also was questioning this Peter. > Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed? > If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed... > D > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: "Mary Donahue" > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > > >> Hello Rachael and everyone, >> >> Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room >> with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 >> and >> she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay >> with >> us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends >> those red flags flying high in our minds! >> >> I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national >> convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes >> treat >> them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay >> with >> them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with >> them at 1:30 in the morning! >> >> This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went very >> wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't >> want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year >> due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping everyone >> has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rachael Vacanti" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate >> >> >> Hey NABS Girls, >> >> If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. >> Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who >> spends >> time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. >> All >> I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit >> card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle >> Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, >> girls, let me know as soon as possible please. >> >> Rachael Vacanti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith “My secret?  See it, and stay focused on it.” — Shaquille O'Neal From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com Fri Jun 10 16:20:49 2011 From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:20:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate References: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <003101cc278a$5c758ec0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Dianne and everyone, I didn't catch the bit about the confirmation and CC numbers when I read her message yesterday. Her plea for a room in the Shingle Creek has all the makings of a scam and definitely has the red flags flying! No one needs to be taken advantage of or scammed in this way. All the best. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate I also was questioning this Peter. Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed? If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed... D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Cc: "Mary Donahue" Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > Hello Rachael and everyone, > > Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room > with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 > and > she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay > with > us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends > those red flags flying high in our minds! > > I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national > convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes > treat > them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay > with > them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with > them at 1:30 in the morning! > > This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went very > wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't > want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year > due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping everyone > has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachael Vacanti" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > Hey NABS Girls, > > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who > spends > time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. > All > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit > card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, > girls, let me know as soon as possible please. > > Rachael Vacanti > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 16:48:57 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:48:57 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: <20110610062149.GJ21333@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> <20110610062149.GJ21333@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: Joseph, I only just yesterday connected the dots and realized that the iphone and victor stream have the same synthesizer, lol! And I don't really mind Samantha on the iPhone, is she really a lot better on a full computer? On 6/10/11, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream. She > still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile > version of Tom. > > I do prefer full version of Samantha, though. > > Joseph > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >> >> >>Samantha, sounds right. >>Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha >>and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who >>has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the >>standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with >>perfect Paul! >>Car: >>>I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. >>> >>> >>>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>> >>>> Jorge, >>>> I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I >>>> much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the >>>> voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. >>>> >>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first >>>learning the >>>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to >>>understand. >>>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>> >>>>> Ashley, >>>>> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >>>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* >>>>> >>>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>> >>>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >>>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >>>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >>>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >>>>>> www.campabilities.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >>>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >>>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info. >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >>>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >>>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >>>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >>>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >>>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >>>>>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >>>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >>>>>> to see you at the game!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >>>>>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >>>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence. >>>>>> >>>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >>>>>> commands I mean. >>>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >>>>>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >>>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >>>>>> >>>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >>>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >>>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >>>>>> reader thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >>>>>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >>>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >>>>>> insert f7: links list. >>>>>> insert f5: headings list >>>>>> Insert f9: frames list >>>>>> H: headings >>>>>> C: combo box >>>>>> R: radio button >>>>>> B: button >>>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >>>>>> is >>>>>> Control insert tab. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for any tips. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From revacanti at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 18:00:27 2011 From: revacanti at gmail.com (Rachael Vacanti) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:00:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 56, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear National NABS, I must firstly clear up a few things: 1. I was simply going off of what the person at the hotel told me. I don't think the last 4 numbers of the credit card are needed, but the guy I talked to said it was. 2. Please, I beg you to get a grip. This is NOT a scam. I'm seriously desperate for a room. 3. Just because you had a bad experience last time, doesn't mean you will this time. I'm from Nebraska, a very hospitable, and welcoming state. Finally, I now have a room, thanks to an email I sent to my ala modern, Colorado Center for the Blind. So, there's no need to worry about it. Thank you for your time. Rachael E. Vacanti On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: window eyes commands (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) > 2. Roommate (Rachael Vacanti) > 3. Re: window eyes commands (Kirt Manwaring) > 4. Re: window eyes commands (Carly Mihalakis) > 5. Re: window eyes commands (Jorge Paez) > 6. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez) > 7. Re: window eyes commands (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) > 8. Re: window eyes commands (Kirt Manwaring) > 9. Re: window eyes commands (Jorge Paez) > 10. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Kirt Manwaring) > 11. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Carly Mihalakis) > 12. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez) > 13. Re: window eyes commands (Carly Mihalakis) > 14. Re: window eyes commands (Ignasi Cambra) > 15. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews) > 16. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews) > 17. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez) > 18. Re: Roommate (Peter Donahue) > 19. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Kirt Manwaring) > 20. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez) > 21. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Kirt Manwaring) > 22. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Serena Cucco) > 23. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews) > 24. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews) > 25. Re: window eyes commands (T. Joseph Carter) > 26. Re: window eyes commands (T. Joseph Carter) > 27. Re: Roommate (Diane) > 28. Re: Roommate (Darian Smith) > 29. Re: Roommate (Peter Donahue) > 30. Re: window eyes commands (Kirt Manwaring) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:22:28 -0400 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0 at OwnerPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Nusbaum > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Hi all, > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > At least I can change it to elloquence. > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > commands I mean. > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > reader thing. > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > insert f7: links list. > insert f5: headings list > Insert f9: frames list > H: headings > C: combo box > R: radio button > B: button > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > is > Control insert tab. > > Thanks for any tips. > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:44:38 -0600 > From: Rachael Vacanti > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hey NABS Girls, > > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who > spends > time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. All > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit > card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, > girls, let me know as soon as possible please. > > Rachael Vacanti > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:48:42 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Ashley, > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Nusbaum > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > > > Chris > > > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > > www.campabilities.org. > > > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > > www.icanfoundation.info. > > > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > > C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > > Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > > to see you at the game!!! > > > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > Hi all, > > > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > > Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > > At least I can change it to elloquence. > > > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > > commands I mean. > > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > > that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > > reader thing. > > > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > > you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > > insert f7: links list. > > insert f5: headings list > > Insert f9: frames list > > H: headings > > C: combo box > > R: radio button > > B: button > > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > > is > > Control insert tab. > > > > Thanks for any tips. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > > sbaum%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 15:59:50 -0700 > From: Carly Mihalakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609155803.01c1c100 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > > Hi, I know whatcha mean about the Apple speech. I learned to type on > a 2e in the early nineties and when i got my DecTalk Express in '95 I > was shocked at how much better the quality was! > for today, > CarAt 03:48 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >Ashley, > > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > >synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > > >On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > > dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Chris Nusbaum > > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > > > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > > > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > > > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > > > www.campabilities.org. > > > > > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > > > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > > > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > > > www.icanfoundation.info. > > > > > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > > > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > > > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > > > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > > > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > > > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > > > C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > > > Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > > > to see you at the game!!! > > > > > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > > > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > > > Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > > > At least I can change it to elloquence. > > > > > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > > > commands I mean. > > > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > > > that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > > > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > > > > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > > > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > > > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > > > reader thing. > > > > > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > > > you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > > > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > > > insert f7: links list. > > > insert f5: headings list > > > Insert f9: frames list > > > H: headings > > > C: combo box > > > R: radio button > > > B: button > > > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > > > is > > > Control insert tab. > > > > > > Thanks for any tips. > > > Ashley > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > > for nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > > > sbaum%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:08:21 -0400 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Do you mean Fred and the rest of them? > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > Ashley, > > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Chris Nusbaum > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >> www.campabilities.org. > >> > >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >> www.icanfoundation.info. > >> > >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >> to see you at the game!!! > >> > >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >> > >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >> commands I mean. > >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >> > >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >> reader thing. > >> > >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >> insert f7: links list. > >> insert f5: headings list > >> Insert f9: frames list > >> H: headings > >> C: combo box > >> R: radio button > >> B: button > >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >> is > >> Control insert tab. > >> > >> Thanks for any tips. > >> Ashley > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:16:49 -0400 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > David: > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing > view is he? > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > No, and I take that as harmless. > > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by > future leaders anyway? > > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we > not open to discussion on this? > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > > Jorge > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > Chris: > > > > While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, > and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This > list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the ACB, > or debate how it is different from the NFB. > > > > David Andrews, List Owner > > > > > > > > At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although a > lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, please > especially take time to read the President's Message column from Mitch > Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek > and Dr. > >> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? Oh > heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:56:17 -0400 > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning the > computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > understand. > Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > Ashley, > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chris Nusbaum > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > > > Chris > > > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > > www.campabilities.org. > > > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > > www.icanfoundation.info. > > > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > > C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > > Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > > to see you at the game!!! > > > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > Hi all, > > > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > > Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > > At least I can change it to elloquence. > > > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > > commands I mean. > > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > > that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > > reader thing. > > > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > > you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > > insert f7: links list. > > insert f5: headings list > > Insert f9: frames list > > H: headings > > C: combo box > > R: radio button > > B: button > > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > > is > > Control insert tab. > > > > Thanks for any tips. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > > sbaum%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:00:22 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Jorge, > I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > > I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning > the > > computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > understand. > > Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kirt Manwaring > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > > > Ashley, > > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Chris Nusbaum > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >> www.campabilities.org. > >> > >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >> www.icanfoundation.info. > >> > >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >> to see you at the game!!! > >> > >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >> > >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >> commands I mean. > >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >> > >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >> reader thing. > >> > >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >> insert f7: links list. > >> insert f5: headings list > >> Insert f9: frames list > >> H: headings > >> C: combo box > >> R: radio button > >> B: button > >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >> is > >> Control insert tab. > >> > >> Thanks for any tips. > >> Ashley > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:12:17 -0400 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > Jorge, > > I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > > much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > > voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > > > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning > the > >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > understand. > >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Kirt Manwaring > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Ashley, > >> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > >> > >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Chris Nusbaum > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>> > >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >>> www.campabilities.org. > >>> > >>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >>> www.icanfoundation.info. > >>> > >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >>> to see you at the game!!! > >>> > >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >>> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >>> > >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >>> commands I mean. > >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >>> > >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >>> reader thing. > >>> > >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >>> insert f7: links list. > >>> insert f5: headings list > >>> Insert f9: frames list > >>> H: headings > >>> C: combo box > >>> R: radio button > >>> B: button > >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >>> is > >>> Control insert tab. > >>> > >>> Thanks for any tips. > >>> Ashley > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>> for nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >>> sbaum%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:02:10 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > David, > I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > Sincerely, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > David: > > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > > > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing > view > > is he? > > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > > No, and I take that as harmless. > > > > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by > > future leaders anyway? > > > > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > must > > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we > will > > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > aim--and > > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles > of > > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > > > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we > not > > open to discussion on this? > > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > hidden > > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > > > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > > > > > Jorge > > > > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > >> Chris: > >> > >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, > >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This > >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the > >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >> > >> David Andrews, List Owner > >> > >> > >> > >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > little > >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > Although > >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from > >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > >>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? > >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 18:21:46 -0700 > From: Carly Mihalakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > , National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609181927.01d5e920 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > > Hi, > > We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef > between the consumer organizations. > There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! > Car: > >David, > > I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > > Sincerely, > >Kirt > > > >On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > > David: > > > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > > > > > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > > opposing view > > > is he? > > > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > > > No, and I take that as harmless. > > > > > > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > by > > > future leaders anyway? > > > > > > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > > > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > must > > > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and > > say we will > > > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > aim--and > > > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > principles of > > > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > > > > > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and > > are we not > > > open to discussion on this? > > > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > > > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > hidden > > > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > > > > > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > > > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > > > > > > > > Jorge > > > > > > > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > > > >> Chris: > > >> > > >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > inappropriate, > > >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > > >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > This > > >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > the > > >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > > >> > > >> David Andrews, List Owner > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > little > > >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > > >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > Although > > >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > > >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > from > > >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > > >>> TenBroek and Dr. > > >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > > >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > much? > > >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:26:46 -0400 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > > Yet we encourage distributing it. > > I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > distributed for free would they? > > > Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not good" > for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > > > > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > David, > > I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > > the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > > issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > > slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > > circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > > terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > > Sincerely, > > Kirt > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> David: > >> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >> > >> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing > view > >> is he? > >> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >> No, and I take that as harmless. > >> > >> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by > >> future leaders anyway? > >> > >> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > must > >> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we > will > >> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > aim--and > >> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles > of > >> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >> > >> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we > not > >> open to discussion on this? > >> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > hidden > >> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >> > >> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >> > >> > >> Jorge > >> > >> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> > >>> Chris: > >>> > >>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, > >>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > >>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > This > >>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the > >>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>> > >>> David Andrews, List Owner > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > little > >>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > Although > >>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > >>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > from > >>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > >>>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > much? > >>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 18:33:29 -0700 > From: Carly Mihalakis > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > , National Association of Blind Students > mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78 at earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > > Samantha, sounds right. > Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha > and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who > has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the > standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen > with perfect Paul! > Car: > >I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. > > > > > >On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > > > Jorge, > > > I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > > > much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > > > voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > > > > > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > > >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first > > learning the > > >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > > understand. > > >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Kirt Manwaring > > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > >> > > >> Ashley, > > >> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > > >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > >> > > >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > > >>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: Chris Nusbaum > > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > >>> > > >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > > >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > > >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > > >>> > > >>> Chris > > >>> > > >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > > >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > > >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > > >>> www.campabilities.org. > > >>> > > >>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > > >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > > >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > > >>> www.icanfoundation.info. > > >>> > > >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > > >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > > >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > > >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > > >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > > >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > > >>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > > >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > > >>> to see you at the game!!! > > >>> > > >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>> > >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > > >>> > > >>> Hi all, > > >>> > > >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > > >>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > > >>> At least I can change it to elloquence. > > >>> > > >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > > >>> commands I mean. > > >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > > >>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > > >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > > >>> > > >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > > >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > > >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > > >>> reader thing. > > >>> > > >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > > >>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > > >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > > >>> insert f7: links list. > > >>> insert f5: headings list > > >>> Insert f9: frames list > > >>> H: headings > > >>> C: combo box > > >>> R: radio button > > >>> B: button > > >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > > >>> is > > >>> Control insert tab. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks for any tips. > > >>> Ashley > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > >>> for nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > > >>> sbaum%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > > for nabs-l: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:37:39 -0400 > From: Ignasi Cambra > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: <26FBC135-29DD-41D2-8712-6DAAA16F7375 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Yes indeed, it is Samantha. The voices on the iPhone are Nuance voices. > On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:33 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > > > > > > Samantha, sounds right. > > Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha and > other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who has always > been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the standalone > OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with perfect Paul! > > Car: > >> I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. > >> > >> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > >> > Jorge, > >> > I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > >> > much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > >> > voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > >> > > >> > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > >> >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first > learning the > >> >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > understand. > >> >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Kirt Manwaring > >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> >> > >> >> Ashley, > >> >> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > >> >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > >> >> > >> >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > >> >>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >> >>> > >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>> From: Chris Nusbaum > >> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> >>> > >> >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >> >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >> >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >> >>> > >> >>> Chris > >> >>> > >> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >> >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >> >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >> >>> www.campabilities.org. > >> >>> > >> >>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >> >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >> >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >> >>> www.icanfoundation.info. > >> >>> > >> >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >> >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >> >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >> >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >> >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >> >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >> >>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >> >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >> >>> to see you at the game!!! > >> >>> > >> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >> >>> > >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>> From: >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >>> >> >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> >>> > >> >>> Hi all, > >> >>> > >> >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >> >>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >> >>> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >> >>> > >> >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >> >>> commands I mean. > >> >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >> >>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >> >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >> >>> > >> >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >> >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >> >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >> >>> reader thing. > >> >>> > >> >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >> >>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >> >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >> >>> insert f7: links list. > >> >>> insert f5: headings list > >> >>> Insert f9: frames list > >> >>> H: headings > >> >>> C: combo box > >> >>> R: radio button > >> >>> B: button > >> >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >> >>> is > >> >>> Control insert tab. > >> >>> > >> >>> Thanks for any tips. > >> >>> Ashley > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> >>> for nabs-l: > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >> >>> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> nabs-l mailing list > >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >> >>> nabs-l: > >> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> nabs-l mailing list > >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> >> nabs-l: > >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > nabs-l mailing list > >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 21:30:48 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I have an open mind and I don't need you lecturing to me. My point > was that such a discussion isn't the purpose of this list. > > Dave > > At 06:16 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >David: > >With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > > >After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > >opposing view is he? > >Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >No, and I take that as harmless. > > > >Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought > >up by future leaders anyway? > > > >Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, > >so must our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy > >and say we will follow it until we die for if the target changes, > >then so must our aim--and we should be open to anything and consider > >all as long as our principles of blind independence and first class > >citizenship are not at risk. > > > >You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and > >are we not open to discussion on this? > >Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > >hidden threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > > >I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > > > > >Jorge > > > > > >On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > > > Chris: > > > > > > While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > > inappropriate, and not in step with the purpose of this list. This > > is not a debating society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute > > the Braille Forum. This list is for NABS and blind students, not > > to discuss the founding of the ACB, or debate how it is different from > the NFB. > > > > > > David Andrews, List Owner > > > > > > > > > > > > At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone > > a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille > > Forum (ACB's magazine) by email. I will attach this month's > > Braille Forum. Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics > > of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read > > the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see > > there what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek and Dr. > > >> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the > > United States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the > > pot too much? Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 21:33:49 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics > for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke > away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they > disagreed with the way things were done by us. > > Dave > > At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > > >Hi, > > > >We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef > >between the consumer organizations. > >There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! > >Car: > >>David, > >> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >>the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >>issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >>slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >>circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >>terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >> Sincerely, > >>Kirt > >> > >>On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> > David: > >> > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >> > > >> > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > >> opposing view > >> > is he? > >> > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >> > No, and I take that as harmless. > >> > > >> > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > by > >> > future leaders anyway? > >> > > >> > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >> > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > must > >> > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and > >> say we will > >> > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must > >> our aim--and > >> > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > >> principles of > >> > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >> > > >> > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, > >> and are we not > >> > open to discussion on this? > >> > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >> > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there > >> is a hidden > >> > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >> > > >> > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >> > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >> > > >> > > >> > Jorge > >> > > >> > > >> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> > > >> >> Chris: > >> >> > >> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > inappropriate, > >> >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a > debating > >> >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > This > >> >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > the > >> >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >> >> > >> >> David Andrews, List Owner > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >> >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort > >> zone a little > >> >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >> >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > Although > >> >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in > Reno, > >> >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > from > >> >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and > Dr. > >> >>> TenBroek and Dr. > >> >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >> >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > much? > >> >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:36:55 -0400 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: <6ADD8FA5-B59B-4B17-B07F-732EBF980EF0 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Car: > Read the ACB website under "about us" and "history" and some NFB documents > (i forget where I found them), they describe the conflict quite in detail. > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:33 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > > I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics for > which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke away from > the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they disagreed with > the way things were done by us. > > > > Dave > > > > At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef > between the consumer organizations. > >> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! > >> Car: > >>> David, > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>> > David: > >>> > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>> > > >>> > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing view > >>> > is he? > >>> > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >>> > No, and I take that as harmless. > >>> > > >>> > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > by > >>> > future leaders anyway? > >>> > > >>> > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >>> > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > must > >>> > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say > we will > >>> > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > aim--and > >>> > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > principles of > >>> > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>> > > >>> > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are > we not > >>> > open to discussion on this? > >>> > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >>> > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > hidden > >>> > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>> > > >>> > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >>> > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Jorge > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Chris: > >>> >> > >>> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > inappropriate, > >>> >> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a > debating > >>> >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > This > >>> >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > the > >>> >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>> >> > >>> >> David Andrews, List Owner > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>> >>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > little > >>> >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>> >>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > Although > >>> >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in > Reno, > >>> >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > from > >>> >>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and > Dr. > >>> >>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>> >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>> >>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > much? > >>> >>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:39:56 -0500 > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: Mary Donahue > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > Message-ID: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43 at yourfsyly0jtwn> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Rachael and everyone, > > Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room > with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 and > she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay > with > us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends > those red flags flying high in our minds! > > I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national > convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes > treat > them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay > with > them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with > them at 1:30 in the morning! > > This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went very > wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't > want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year > due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping everyone > has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachael Vacanti" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > Hey NABS Girls, > > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who > spends > time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. All > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit > card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, > girls, let me know as soon as possible please. > > Rachael Vacanti > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:44:47 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Jorge, > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > things. > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > they're dealing with in the political arena. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > > > > Yet we encourage distributing it. > > > > I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > > distributed for free would they? > > > > > > Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > good" > > for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > >> David, > >> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >> Sincerely, > >> Kirt > >> > >> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>> David: > >>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>> > >>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing > >>> view > >>> is he? > >>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>> > >>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > by > >>> future leaders anyway? > >>> > >>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > >>> must > >>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we > >>> will > >>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > >>> aim--and > >>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > principles > >>> of > >>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>> > >>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are > we > >>> not > >>> open to discussion on this? > >>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > >>> hidden > >>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>> > >>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >>> > >>> > >>> Jorge > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>> > >>>> Chris: > >>>> > >>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > inappropriate, > >>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > >>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > This > >>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > the > >>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>> > >>>> David Andrews, List Owner > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > >>>>> little > >>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > >>>>> Although > >>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > >>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > from > >>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > >>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > much? > >>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:50:02 -0400 > From: Jorge Paez > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: <175DDA44-838F-41F7-A9A2-934DFEB21819 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hi Kirt: > > Yes--perhaps you're right. > Unfortunately I've met waay too many people who go on trying to shield > fellow NFB members from the ACB, > and seeing as the tensions are still high in many regards, > I thought this might be a reason--not so much to raise any points but to > stay out of any trouble. > > And you're right, we have pretty much debated other issues to death so? > > anyway, I'll go before I get called out by David again. > > Jorge > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > Jorge, > > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > > things. > > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > > they're dealing with in the political arena. > > Respectfully, > > Kirt > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > >> > >> Yet we encourage distributing it. > >> > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > >> distributed for free would they? > >> > >> > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > good" > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > >>> David, > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>>> David: > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>> > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing > >>>> view > >>>> is he? > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>> > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > by > >>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>> > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > >>>> must > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say > we > >>>> will > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > >>>> aim--and > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > principles > >>>> of > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>> > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are > we > >>>> not > >>>> open to discussion on this? > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > >>>> hidden > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>> > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Chris: > >>>>> > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > inappropriate, > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a > debating > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > This > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > the > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > >>>>>> Although > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in > Reno, > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > from > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and > Dr. > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > much? > >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:00:02 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dave, > I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on > this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one > concern. > Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the > purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. > For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the > two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is > absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom > having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why > there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two > organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't > understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I > studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest > factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't > these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to > this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would > have been more willing to network with other blind students in the > Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there > were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but > bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil > war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the > two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. > So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to > blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what > we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, > why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? > What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've > debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it > matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this > question not fit to be discussed here. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > Jorge, > > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > > things. > > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > > they're dealing with in the political arena. > > Respectfully, > > Kirt > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > >> > >> Yet we encourage distributing it. > >> > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > >> distributed for free would they? > >> > >> > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > >> good" > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > >>> David, > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>>> David: > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>> > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing > >>>> view > >>>> is he? > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>> > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > >>>> by > >>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>> > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > >>>> must > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say > we > >>>> will > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > >>>> aim--and > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > >>>> principles > >>>> of > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>> > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are > >>>> we > >>>> not > >>>> open to discussion on this? > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > >>>> hidden > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>> > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Chris: > >>>>> > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > >>>>> inappropriate, > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a > debating > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > >>>>> This > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > >>>>> the > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > >>>>>> Although > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in > Reno, > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > >>>>>> from > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and > Dr. > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > >>>>>> much? > >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:31:05 -0400 > From: "Serena Cucco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: <9DB7C35B04DA455A976F3BDBF6D912D8 at SerenaPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I don't think David Andrews was trying to keep us from talking about the > history between the organizations. I think he didn't approve of the > distribution of the ACB's magazine on this list, which is pretty much for > the NFB, although we don't exclude ACB students. I think Dave's objectin > is > simply cuz he still considers the ACB our enemy. Similar to countries at > war. Yeah, the civil war is over, but the leadership cannot forget it. > It's possible he was also concerned that Chris was trying to convert people > into the ACB by distributing the magazine on this list. Knowing Chris a > little from the list, I doubt this was his intention, although I can see > why > David might've thought so. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Kirt Manwaring > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:00 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > Dave, > I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on > this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one > concern. > Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the > purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. > For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the > two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is > absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom > having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why > there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two > organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't > understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I > studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest > factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't > these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to > this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would > have been more willing to network with other blind students in the > Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there > were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but > bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil > war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the > two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. > So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to > blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what > we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, > why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? > What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've > debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it > matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this > question not fit to be discussed here. > Respectfully, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > Jorge, > > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > > things. > > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > > they're dealing with in the political arena. > > Respectfully, > > Kirt > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > >> > >> Yet we encourage distributing it. > >> > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > >> distributed for free would they? > >> > >> > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > >> good" > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > >>> David, > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > >>> Sincerely, > >>> Kirt > >>> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > >>>> David: > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>> > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing > >>>> view > >>>> is he? > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>> > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > >>>> by > >>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>> > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > >>>> must > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say > we > >>>> will > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > >>>> aim--and > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > >>>> principles > >>>> of > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>> > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are > >>>> we > >>>> not > >>>> open to discussion on this? > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > >>>> hidden > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>> > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jorge > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Chris: > >>>>> > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > >>>>> inappropriate, > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a > debating > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > >>>>> This > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > >>>>> the > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > >>>>>> little > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > >>>>>> Although > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in > Reno, > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > >>>>>> from > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and > Dr. > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > >>>>>> much? > >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae > z%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae > z%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma > il.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma > il.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:38:02 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I will say two things, and then ask everybody to just move > on. Frankly what I objected the most was attaching three versions of > the Braille Forum to a message. It just isn't necessary for the > discussion of one article. and ... in general I think I run things > with a pretty light hand -- the other endless debates prove that, but > when I do say something why is it that everybody feels compelled to > argue with me.? > > Dave > > > >Dave, > > I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on > >this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one > >concern. > > Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the > >purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. > > For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the > >two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is > >absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom > >having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why > >there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two > >organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't > >understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I > >studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest > >factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't > >these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to > >this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would > >have been more willing to network with other blind students in the > >Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there > >were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but > >bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil > >war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the > >two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. > > So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to > >blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what > >we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, > >why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? > >What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've > >debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it > >matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this > >question not fit to be discussed here. > > Respectfully, > >Kirt > > > >On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > Jorge, > > > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > > > things. > > > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > > > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > > > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > > > they're dealing with in the political arena. > > > Respectfully, > > > Kirt > > > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > > >> > > >> Yet we encourage distributing it. > > >> > > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > > >> distributed for free would they? > > >> > > >> > > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > > >> good" > > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > >> > > >>> David, > > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > > >>> Sincerely, > > >>> Kirt > > >>> > > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > >>>> David: > > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > >>>> > > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing > > >>>> view > > >>>> is he? > > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > > >>>> > > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought > up > > >>>> by > > >>>> future leaders anyway? > > >>>> > > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, > so > > >>>> must > > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say > we > > >>>> will > > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > > >>>> aim--and > > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > > >>>> principles > > >>>> of > > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > >>>> > > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and > are > > >>>> we > > >>>> not > > >>>> open to discussion on this? > > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > > >>>> hidden > > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > >>>> > > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Jorge > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Chris: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > > >>>>> inappropriate, > > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a > debating > > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > > >>>>> This > > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > > >>>>>> little > > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > > >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > > >>>>>> Although > > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in > Reno, > > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > > >>>>>> from > > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and > Dr. > > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > > >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > > >>>>>> much? > > >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:45:59 -0500 > From: David Andrews > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I am flattered that you consider me to be a leader -- but you > shouldn't attribute motives to me that may or may not be true. I do > not consider the ACB to be the enemy, I don't always agree with them, > and I am not about to join. they probably keep us honest and we do > the same for them > > Dave > > > >I don't think David Andrews was trying to keep us from talking about the > >history between the organizations. I think he didn't approve of the > >distribution of the ACB's magazine on this list, which is pretty much for > >the NFB, although we don't exclude ACB students. I think Dave's objectin > is > >simply cuz he still considers the ACB our enemy. Similar to countries at > >war. Yeah, the civil war is over, but the leadership cannot forget it. > >It's possible he was also concerned that Chris was trying to convert > people > >into the ACB by distributing the magazine on this list. Knowing Chris a > >little from the list, I doubt this was his intention, although I can see > why > >David might've thought so. > > > >Serena > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > >Of Kirt Manwaring > >Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:00 PM > >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > > >Dave, > > I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on > >this list. I certainly respect your decision. However, I do have one > >concern. > > Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the > >purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students. > > For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the > >two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is > >absolutely important, critical even. Blind students, many of whom > >having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why > >there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two > >organizations from always working together. Certainly I didn't > >understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I > >studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest > >factors that kept me out of the Federation. I thought "why can't > >these people just work together and get along?" Had I been exposed to > >this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would > >have been more willing to network with other blind students in the > >Federation at a younger age. My perception was honestly that there > >were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but > >bickering over silly past history. Once I was exposed to the "civil > >war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the > >two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing. > > So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to > >blind students. We need to know our history, it helps us decide what > >we're going to do now. So I ask you, with civility and an open mind, > >why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students? > >What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've > >debated in the past? Certainly it matters to us blind students and it > >matters to us a great deal. I honestly want to know what makes this > >question not fit to be discussed here. > > Respectfully, > >Kirt > > > >On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > > Jorge, > > > I disagree with you on the last point. I think Dave was trying to > > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming > > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me > > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other > > > things. > > > I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB > > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book > > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us. So, no, I > > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB > > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this > > > NFB-sponsored public forum. Do I agree with his decision? With all > > > cander, no. But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the > > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the > > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB. If anything, I think > > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who > > > they're dealing with in the political arena. > > > Respectfully, > > > Kirt > > > > > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property? > > >> > > >> Yet we encourage distributing it. > > >> > > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being > > >> distributed for free would they? > > >> > > >> > > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not > > >> good" > > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > > >> > > >>> David, > > >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > > >>> Sincerely, > > >>> Kirt > > >>> > > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > > >>>> David: > > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > >>>> > > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing > > >>>> view > > >>>> is he? > > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? > > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > > >>>> > > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought > up > > >>>> by > > >>>> future leaders anyway? > > >>>> > > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, > so > > >>>> must > > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say > we > > >>>> will > > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our > > >>>> aim--and > > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > > >>>> principles > > >>>> of > > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > >>>> > > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and > are > > >>>> we > > >>>> not > > >>>> open to discussion on this? > > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a > > >>>> hidden > > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > >>>> > > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Jorge > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Chris: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > > >>>>> inappropriate, > > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a > debating > > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > > >>>>> This > > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > > >>>>> the > > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a > > >>>>>> little > > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > > >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > > >>>>>> Although > > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in > Reno, > > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > > >>>>>> from > > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and > Dr. > > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. > > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > > >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > > >>>>>> much? > > >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:19:18 -0700 > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: <20110610061917.GI21333 at yumi.bluecherry.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > The ones from the System 7 era? That are still in Mac OS X 10.7 > coming out next month for old times' sake? ;) > > Besides Alex which has had some additional tuning, 10.7 has the > option of three Nuance voices?Samantha, Tom, and Jill. There are > also a collection of international voices. > > Joseph > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 04:48:42PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >Ashley, > > You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > >synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > > > >On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > >> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Chris Nusbaum > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >> www.campabilities.org. > >> > >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >> www.icanfoundation.info. > >> > >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >> to see you at the game!!! > >> > >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> >> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >> > >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >> commands I mean. > >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >> > >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >> reader thing. > >> > >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >> insert f7: links list. > >> insert f5: headings list > >> Insert f9: frames list > >> H: headings > >> C: combo box > >> R: radio button > >> B: button > >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >> is > >> Control insert tab. > >> > >> Thanks for any tips. > >> Ashley > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >> for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:21:50 -0700 > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: <20110610062149.GJ21333 at yumi.bluecherry.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream. She > still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile > version of Tom. > > I do prefer full version of Samantha, though. > > Joseph > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > > > > > >Samantha, sounds right. > >Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha > >and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who > >has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the > >standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with > >perfect Paul! > >Car: > >>I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. > >> > >> > >>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >> > >>> Jorge, > >>> I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > >>> much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > >>> voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > >>> > >>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > >>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first > >>learning the > >>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > >>understand. > >>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring > >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>>> > >>>> Ashley, > >>>> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > >>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > >>>> > >>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > >>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>>>> > >>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >>>>> www.campabilities.org. > >>>>> > >>>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >>>>> www.icanfoundation.info. > >>>>> > >>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >>>>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >>>>> to see you at the game!!! > >>>>> > >>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >>>>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >>>>> > >>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >>>>> commands I mean. > >>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >>>>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >>>>> > >>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >>>>> reader thing. > >>>>> > >>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >>>>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >>>>> insert f7: links list. > >>>>> insert f5: headings list > >>>>> Insert f9: frames list > >>>>> H: headings > >>>>> C: combo box > >>>>> R: radio button > >>>>> B: button > >>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >>>>> is > >>>>> Control insert tab. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for any tips. > >>>>> Ashley > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>for nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:16:10 -0600 > From: "Diane" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I also was questioning this Peter. > Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed? > If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed... > D > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: "Mary Donahue" > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > > Hello Rachael and everyone, > > > > Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room > > with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 > > and > > she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay > > with > > us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends > > those red flags flying high in our minds! > > > > I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national > > convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes > > treat > > them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay > > with > > them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with > > them at 1:30 in the morning! > > > > This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went > very > > wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't > > want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year > > due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping > everyone > > has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! > > > > Peter Donahue > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rachael Vacanti" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM > > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > > > > Hey NABS Girls, > > > > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. > > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who > > spends > > time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. > > All > > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit > > card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle > > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, > > girls, let me know as soon as possible please. > > > > Rachael Vacanti > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:37:04 -0700 > From: Darian Smith > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Possibly what the individual she spoke with at the hotel told her. > at any rate, I hope this person finds a roomate, I would hate to see > someone not be able to benifit from the admosphere, activity, and > energy that is our national conventionn - that's what counts here. > Darian > > > On 6/10/11, Diane wrote: > > I also was questioning this Peter. > > Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed? > > If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed... > > D > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter Donahue" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Cc: "Mary Donahue" > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > > > >> Hello Rachael and everyone, > >> > >> Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room > >> with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 > >> and > >> she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay > >> with > >> us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends > >> those red flags flying high in our minds! > >> > >> I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national > >> convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes > >> treat > >> them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay > >> with > >> them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle > with > >> them at 1:30 in the morning! > >> > >> This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went > very > >> wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't > >> want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that > year > >> due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping > everyone > >> has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! > >> > >> Peter Donahue > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Rachael Vacanti" > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate > >> > >> > >> Hey NABS Girls, > >> > >> If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. > >> Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who > >> spends > >> time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. > >> All > >> I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit > >> card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle > >> Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, > >> girls, let me know as soon as possible please. > >> > >> Rachael Vacanti > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Darian Smith > > ?My secret?? See it, and stay focused on it.? > > ? Shaquille O'Neal > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:20:49 -0500 > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: Mary Donahue > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > Message-ID: <003101cc278a$5c758ec0$82070b43 at yourfsyly0jtwn> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Dianne and everyone, > > I didn't catch the bit about the confirmation and CC numbers when I read > her message yesterday. Her plea for a room in the Shingle Creek has all the > makings of a scam and definitely has the red flags flying! No one needs to > be taken advantage of or scammed in this way. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diane" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > I also was questioning this Peter. > Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed? > If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed... > D > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: "Mary Donahue" > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > > Hello Rachael and everyone, > > > > Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room > > with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 > > and > > she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay > > with > > us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends > > those red flags flying high in our minds! > > > > I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national > > convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes > > treat > > them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay > > with > > them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with > > them at 1:30 in the morning! > > > > This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went > very > > wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't > > want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year > > due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping > everyone > > has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! > > > > Peter Donahue > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rachael Vacanti" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM > > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > > > > Hey NABS Girls, > > > > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. > > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who > > spends > > time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. > > All > > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit > > card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle > > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, > > girls, let me know as soon as possible please. > > > > Rachael Vacanti > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:48:57 -0600 > From: Kirt Manwaring > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > , "T. Joseph Carter" < > carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Joseph, > I only just yesterday connected the dots and realized that the > iphone and victor stream have the same synthesizer, lol! And I don't > really mind Samantha on the iPhone, is she really a lot better on a > full computer? > > On 6/10/11, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > > My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream. She > > still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile > > version of Tom. > > > > I do prefer full version of Samantha, though. > > > > Joseph > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote: > >> > >> > >>Samantha, sounds right. > >>Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha > >>and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who > >>has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the > >>standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with > >>perfect Paul! > >>Car: > >>>I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. > >>> > >>> > >>>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jorge, > >>>> I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I > >>>> much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the > >>>> voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. > >>>> > >>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > >>>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first > >>>learning the > >>>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to > >>>understand. > >>>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>>>> > >>>>> Ashley, > >>>>> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech > >>>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* > >>>>> > >>>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net > wrote: > >>>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive > >>>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. > >>>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Chris > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > >>>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > >>>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > >>>>>> www.campabilities.org. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > >>>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > >>>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: > >>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > >>>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > >>>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > >>>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > >>>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > >>>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I > >>>>>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on > >>>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope > >>>>>> to see you at the game!!! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use > >>>>>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. > >>>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading > >>>>>> commands I mean. > >>>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws > >>>>>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current > >>>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move > >>>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu > >>>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen > >>>>>> reader thing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws > >>>>>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. > >>>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: > >>>>>> insert f7: links list. > >>>>>> insert f5: headings list > >>>>>> Insert f9: frames list > >>>>>> H: headings > >>>>>> C: combo box > >>>>>> R: radio button > >>>>>> B: button > >>>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command > >>>>>> is > >>>>>> Control insert tab. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks for any tips. > >>>>>> Ashley > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>> for nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > >>>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>for nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>nabs-l mailing list > >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>nabs-l mailing list > >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 56, Issue 13 > ************************************** > From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 18:55:03 2011 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:55:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate In-Reply-To: <003101cc278a$5c758ec0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> <003101cc278a$5c758ec0$82070b43@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Hi all, I know Rachel personally, and can vouch for the legitimacy of her room request. Rachel, I'm glad you worked it out. To the rest: I see nothing wrong with putting out roommate requests like this. In today's convention world, rooms run out fast and many of us find ourselves in need of a room, or of roommates to split costs. Occasionally bad experiences do happen with stranger room-sharing arrangements, but that's not the norm. I've taken girls I didn't know into my room at two past conventions, and had very good experiences. So let's not jump to conclusions here and give our fellow Federationists the benefit of the doubt. Arielle On 6/10/11, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Dianne and everyone, > > I didn't catch the bit about the confirmation and CC numbers when I read > her message yesterday. Her plea for a room in the Shingle Creek has all the > makings of a scam and definitely has the red flags flying! No one needs to > be taken advantage of or scammed in this way. All the best. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Diane" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > > > I also was questioning this Peter. > Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed? > If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed... > D > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Donahue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Cc: "Mary Donahue" > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate > > >> Hello Rachael and everyone, >> >> Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room >> with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 >> and >> she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay >> with >> us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends >> those red flags flying high in our minds! >> >> I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national >> convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes >> treat >> them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay >> with >> them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with >> them at 1:30 in the morning! >> >> This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went very >> wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't >> want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year >> due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping everyone >> has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin! >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rachael Vacanti" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate >> >> >> Hey NABS Girls, >> >> If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know. >> Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along. After all, who >> spends >> time in their room during national convention? Certainly, I won't be. >> All >> I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit >> card. Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle >> Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd. So, >> girls, let me know as soon as possible please. >> >> Rachael Vacanti >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 19:47:38 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:47:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker Message-ID: <4df27503.31ad340a.333d.76a5@mx.google.com> Is that like the Active Expression remote that I use in school, where the teacher puts a multiple-choice question on the board and you type in your answer on the remote and hit send? For fill-in-the-blank or short answers, you can also text in your answer, like you're texting on a phone. It's part of the Permethian Education software. Is the iClicker something like that? Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Are these used to give answers for tests? Or just assignments? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I clicker Darian, I'd echo what Joseph said-I had to use them a lot last year. It's easier just to have a sighted friend help set up the frequency and, when in a class, just ask the person next to you if the iclicker sent the answer ok or, in some cases, they may have to read the questions if the instructor's lazy like that. But from my experience, people in classes are usually cool with that sort of thing...I've made some new friends that way. *grin* Warmly, Kirt On 6/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: I have used one. The device itself is mostly useable. It has 5 buttons labeled A through E, and a power button. What it's generally used for are in class questions and that sort of thing. There are a couple things that can be difficult. Setting the frequency the device communicates on requires you look at the lights on the device, but a person could just memorize the sequence or else have someone help them do it. It's not something you have to do often, and I could talk a person through setting the right frequency without sight if necessary since I've done it myself a time or ten. The only other potential difficulty would be that the device indicates a successful transmission with a green light and an unsuccessful one with a blinking red light. That may or may not be a problem for your friend depending on the situation. Usually the unsuccessful transmission thing doesn't happen if the device is set to the right frequency and registered with the base the instructor is using, and the instructor has the base set up to receive transmissions. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, Could he just get Gmail? I think that would be a more accessible alternative to Hotmail, and it's free. If you need help downloading attachments from Gmail, let me know. By the way, what version of Windows is he running, and what screen reader is being used? Hope this helps! Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Beth References: <4df27503.31ad340a.333d.76a5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Looks like that is an interesting device. I wonder if they would be able to make it beep or talk or do something audible so blind people can use it effectively? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 12:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I clicker Is that like the Active Expression remote that I use in school, where the teacher puts a multiple-choice question on the board and you type in your answer on the remote and hit send? For fill-in-the-blank or short answers, you can also text in your answer, like you're texting on a phone. It's part of the Permethian Education software. Is the iClicker something like that? Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Are these used to give answers for tests? Or just assignments? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I clicker Darian, I'd echo what Joseph said-I had to use them a lot last year. It's easier just to have a sighted friend help set up the frequency and, when in a class, just ask the person next to you if the iclicker sent the answer ok or, in some cases, they may have to read the questions if the instructor's lazy like that. But from my experience, people in classes are usually cool with that sort of thing...I've made some new friends that way. *grin* Warmly, Kirt On 6/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: I have used one. The device itself is mostly useable. It has 5 buttons labeled A through E, and a power button. What it's generally used for are in class questions and that sort of thing. There are a couple things that can be difficult. Setting the frequency the device communicates on requires you look at the lights on the device, but a person could just memorize the sequence or else have someone help them do it. It's not something you have to do often, and I could talk a person through setting the right frequency without sight if necessary since I've done it myself a time or ten. The only other potential difficulty would be that the device indicates a successful transmission with a green light and an unsuccessful one with a blinking red light. That may or may not be a problem for your friend depending on the situation. Usually the unsuccessful transmission thing doesn't happen if the device is set to the right frequency and registered with the base the instructor is using, and the instructor has the base set up to receive transmissions. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, References: <4df27509.31ad340a.333d.76a7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: HE'S USING WINDOWS 7 AND JAWS 12 IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO KNOW. OH, AND HE'S CALLING ME. BETH Sent from my iPod On Jun 10, 2011, at 1:47 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Could he just get Gmail? I think that would be a more accessible alternative to Hotmail, and it's free. If you need help downloading attachments from Gmail, let me know. By the way, what version of Windows is he running, and what screen reader is being used? Hope this helps! > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 00:16:49 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] downloading attachments with Hotmail > > Hey, guys. I'm wondering how to download attachments. My boyfriend had been trying to download from live.com, but alas, it was inaccessible! His college's e-mail address is also inaccessible, and I hate all the graphics and stuff. What we're trying to do is get around the safety blocks in Hotmail, so if there's any way to download from Hotmail directly, that's something I'd like to know. It would help us both a lot. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 21:26:36 2011 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:26:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> <20110610062149.GJ21333@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20110610212635.GD52709@yumi.bluecherry.net> Substantially less mechanical, yes. Joseph On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:48:57AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >Joseph, > I only just yesterday connected the dots and realized that the >iphone and victor stream have the same synthesizer, lol! And I don't >really mind Samantha on the iPhone, is she really a lot better on a >full computer? > >On 6/10/11, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream. She >> still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile >> version of Tom. >> >> I do prefer full version of Samantha, though. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> >>> >>>Samantha, sounds right. >>>Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha >>>and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who >>>has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the >>>standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with >>>perfect Paul! >>>Car: >>>>I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. >>>> >>>> >>>>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jorge, >>>>> I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I >>>>> much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the >>>>> voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. >>>>> >>>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first >>>>learning the >>>>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to >>>>understand. >>>>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >>>>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >>>>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >>>>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>>>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >>>>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >>>>>>> www.campabilities.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >>>>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >>>>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >>>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >>>>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >>>>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >>>>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >>>>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >>>>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >>>>>>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >>>>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >>>>>>> to see you at the game!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >>>>>>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >>>>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >>>>>>> commands I mean. >>>>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >>>>>>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >>>>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >>>>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >>>>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >>>>>>> reader thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >>>>>>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >>>>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >>>>>>> insert f7: links list. >>>>>>> insert f5: headings list >>>>>>> Insert f9: frames list >>>>>>> H: headings >>>>>>> C: combo box >>>>>>> R: radio button >>>>>>> B: button >>>>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> Control insert tab. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any tips. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 23:14:38 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:14:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands In-Reply-To: References: <4df12564.a2ae340a.3d7b.4100@mx.google.com> <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0@OwnerPC> <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C@gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78@earthlink.net> <20110610062149.GJ21333@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <4974D1F1-892F-4064-8CBF-DE748161AB1E@gmail.com> She's alright on my computer but in my experience its fine either way, no real difference. On Jun 10, 2011, at 12:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: > Joseph, > I only just yesterday connected the dots and realized that the > iphone and victor stream have the same synthesizer, lol! And I don't > really mind Samantha on the iPhone, is she really a lot better on a > full computer? > > On 6/10/11, T. Joseph Carter wrote: >> My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream. She >> still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile >> version of Tom. >> >> I do prefer full version of Samantha, though. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote: >>> >>> >>> Samantha, sounds right. >>> Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha >>> and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who >>> has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the >>> standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I prefer to listen with >>> perfect Paul! >>> Car: >>>> I think the voice Over lady is Samantha. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jorge, >>>>> I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I >>>>> much prefer Reed myself. *smile* Oh-and someone should give the >>>>> voiceover lady a name. I like her, too. >>>>> >>>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first >>>> learning the >>>>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to >>>> understand. >>>>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley, >>>>>> You think decktalk's robotic? Listen to the old Apple speech >>>>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic! *grin* >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive >>>>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. >>>>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >>>>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >>>>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >>>>>>> www.campabilities.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >>>>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >>>>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >>>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >>>>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >>>>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >>>>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >>>>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >>>>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I >>>>>>> C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on >>>>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope >>>>>>> to see you at the game!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use >>>>>>> Window Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws. >>>>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading >>>>>>> commands I mean. >>>>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws >>>>>>> that is insert down arrow. Also read next/previous word, current >>>>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move >>>>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu >>>>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen >>>>>>> reader thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws >>>>>>> you do not. Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same. >>>>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are: >>>>>>> insert f7: links list. >>>>>>> insert f5: headings list >>>>>>> Insert f9: frames list >>>>>>> H: headings >>>>>>> C: combo box >>>>>>> R: radio button >>>>>>> B: button >>>>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> Control insert tab. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any tips. >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >>>>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 23:19:02 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:19:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] downloading attachments with Hotmail In-Reply-To: <4df27509.31ad340a.333d.76a7@mx.google.com> References: <4df27509.31ad340a.333d.76a7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <93C67751-8A29-4F45-BBA8-A8028BC0FF51@gmail.com> Chris: Can you please email me off list re: gmail? I opened a live account because I need to use it with some windows services, but need to download some attachments from Gmail too. Please let me know, thanks. Jorge On Jun 10, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote: > Could he just get Gmail? I think that would be a more accessible alternative to Hotmail, and it's free. If you need help downloading attachments from Gmail, let me know. By the way, what version of Windows is he running, and what screen reader is being used? Hope this helps! > > Chris > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. > > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 00:16:49 -0600 > Subject: [nabs-l] downloading attachments with Hotmail > > Hey, guys. I'm wondering how to download attachments. My boyfriend had been trying to download from live.com, but alas, it was inaccessible! His college's e-mail address is also inaccessible, and I hate all the graphics and stuff. What we're trying to do is get around the safety blocks in Hotmail, so if there's any way to download from Hotmail directly, that's something I'd like to know. It would help us both a lot. > Beth > > Sent from my iPod > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Jun 10 23:38:11 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:38:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: <4df27503.31ad340a.333d.76a5@mx.google.com> References: <4df27503.31ad340a.333d.76a5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If these are touch screen devices where you type the letter of your answer, how are they accessible? If you have a classmate help you, I'm surprised the professor lets the classmate see your answers. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 3:47 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I clicker Is that like the Active Expression remote that I use in school, where the teacher puts a multiple-choice question on the board and you type in your answer on the remote and hit send? For fill-in-the-blank or short answers, you can also text in your answer, like you're texting on a phone. It's part of the Permethian Education software. Is the iClicker something like that? Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: Are these used to give answers for tests? Or just assignments? Ashley -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:14 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] I clicker Darian, I'd echo what Joseph said-I had to use them a lot last year. It's easier just to have a sighted friend help set up the frequency and, when in a class, just ask the person next to you if the iclicker sent the answer ok or, in some cases, they may have to read the questions if the instructor's lazy like that. But from my experience, people in classes are usually cool with that sort of thing...I've made some new friends that way. *grin* Warmly, Kirt On 6/2/11, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: I have used one. The device itself is mostly useable. It has 5 buttons labeled A through E, and a power button. What it's generally used for are in class questions and that sort of thing. There are a couple things that can be difficult. Setting the frequency the device communicates on requires you look at the lights on the device, but a person could just memorize the sequence or else have someone help them do it. It's not something you have to do often, and I could talk a person through setting the right frequency without sight if necessary since I've done it myself a time or ten. The only other potential difficulty would be that the device indicates a successful transmission with a green light and an unsuccessful one with a blinking red light. That may or may not be a problem for your friend depending on the situation. Usually the unsuccessful transmission thing doesn't happen if the device is set to the right frequency and registered with the base the instructor is using, and the instructor has the base set up to receive transmissions. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, Hi everyone, I'm testing if my messages go through. I recently signed up for a gmail account and would like to know if my new email address works through and you are receiving this message. Cheers, Humberto From joshkart12 at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 00:13:53 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:13:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Test Message: please disregard or reply Message-ID: <4df2b361.505c340a.596e.792c@mx.google.com> Hi, Humberto, Yes, the messages are coming through on my end. Best, Josh sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Humberto Avila" , Introducing the Nabs Membership call for June: "It's All About Convention 2011!" Whether you have been to the National Federation of the Blind's National Convention before or this year will be your first time going, come and hear all about what makes convention fun, informative and an experience you will most likely never forget! Join guest speakers Karen Anderson and Sean Whalen, who will be on hand to give you an overview of the convention week, and what events the National Association of Blind Students will be taking part in and how you can help. Bring your convention experiences, stories and questions! When: Sunday, June 12, 6:00 PM Eastern. Where: Conference call: (712) 775-7100, passcode 257963. Your Nabs Membership Committee -- Darian Smith “My secret? See it, and stay focused on it.” — Shaquille O'Neal From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Jun 11 03:43:55 2011 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 23:43:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Test Message: please disregard or reply In-Reply-To: <845FFEF61CF443B9B643F67BCB58060C@HumbertoAvila> References: <845FFEF61CF443B9B643F67BCB58060C@HumbertoAvila> Message-ID: <5795879A2FEE455ABFBC4555E085B175@OwnerPC> its fine. -----Original Message----- From: Humberto Avila Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:06 PM To: nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Test Message: please disregard or reply Hi everyone, I'm testing if my messages go through. I recently signed up for a gmail account and would like to know if my new email address works through and you are receiving this message. Cheers, Humberto _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Jun 11 06:29:56 2011 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 00:29:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I clicker In-Reply-To: <4df27503.31ad340a.333d.76a5@mx.google.com> References: <4df27503.31ad340a.333d.76a5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4DF30B64.4010403@pcdesk.net> It is something like that, but not quite. It's an RF driven device which allows for multiple choice questions to be asked in class. It doesn't support free form answering of questions though, and the system "grades" the answers automatically for the professor. You can change your answer up to the point that the professor closes the question. To answer Ashley's question, if she was refering to the I clicker, it is not a touch screen device. It has no screen at all in fact. The buttons are traditional, and feedback is provided with three LED's located near the top of the device. -- "All models are wrong, but some are useful." George E. P. Box Joseph C. Lininger, From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Jun 11 17:43:16 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 13:43:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Test Message: please disregard or reply In-Reply-To: <845FFEF61CF443B9B643F67BCB58060C@HumbertoAvila> Message-ID: <4df3a94e.4a8ee50a.1696.ffff94b0@mx.google.com> Yes the messages are coming in on my end as well. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:07 PM To: nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Test Message: please disregard or reply Hi everyone, I'm testing if my messages go through. I recently signed up for a gmail account and would like to know if my new email address works through and you are receiving this message. Cheers, Humberto _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun Jun 12 20:56:47 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:56:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Nabs Membership call: Getting Ready for National Convention! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, If you are going to National Convention inFlorida, I absolutely want you on this call! Introducing the Nabs Membership call for June: "It's All About Convention 2011!" Whether you have been to the National Federation of the Blind's National Convention before or this year will be your first time going, come and hear all about what makes convention fun, informative and an experience you will most likely never forget! Join guest speakers Karen Anderson and Sean Whalen, who will be on hand to give you an overview of the convention week, and what events the National Association of Blind Students will be taking part in and how you can help. Bring your convention experiences, stories and questions! When: Sunday, June 12, 6:00 PM Eastern. Where: Conference call: (712) 775-7100, passcode 257963. Your Nabs Membership Committee -- Darian Smith “My secret? See it, and stay focused on it.” — Shaquille O'Neal From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Jun 12 22:34:09 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 18:34:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <20110612223409.4639.90358@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> The death threat issued to Jernigan and others came from sighted individuals associated with rival agencies during that time. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > No Josh, it has nothing to do with blindness in my opinion, but > rather NFB philosophy about blindness. I was surprised as well > when I heard that, but come to think of it, it isn't that > surprising considering how radical some people think NFB > philosophy is. Now I'd like to know, did Dr. Jernigan get a > death threat from a sighted person or another blind person who > had something against the NFB, like he was diehard ACB, and what > was his motive? > Chris > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near > you, just click on this link to their national Web site: > www.campabilities.org. > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click > on this link to learn more and to contribute: > www.icanfoundation.info. > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by > phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. > Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for > more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: > nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > --- Sent from my BrailleNote > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Gregory To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 23:20:27 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Hi, such a respectable person as Dr. Journigan receiving death > threats? To me that is unheard of that such... um... deplorable > things could happen to us blind people. > Josh > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jedi To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:17:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > Federationists have received death threats in the past; i can > recall from my studies that Rammi Rabby and Dr. Jernigan did. > Respectfully, > Jedi > Sent from my iPhone > On May 28, 2011, at 12:47 AM, "Mike Freeman" wrote: > Darian: > WE of NFB often compare ourselves to African-americans because > we consider > ourselves, like them, to be a minority group within the larger > society. > Certainly, no one would argue that blind people were attacked > with > fire-hoses or lynched while trying to exercise their rights. I > do know of > plenty of instances when blind persons were arrested for > refusing to move > from exit-row seating to which they were legitimately assigned > on airplanes > and I know of one incident wherein a blind person was severely > beaten for > being a NFB member. > I believe there's a bit about this comparison in Dr. Jernigan's > 1976 banquet > speech, "Of visions and Vultures". > I appreciate your question to clarify the comparison. > Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Darian Smith > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:23 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in > others > Mike: > African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term > themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon > how > they were treated by whites up to that time. > It is curious that how african-americans were treated is > always > one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our > comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I > wonder, > were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully > protest > the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we > safely > make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I > could be, > and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some > similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our > histories > were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on > largely > different levels. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu > sbaum%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Sun Jun 12 22:47:42 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 18:47:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <20110612223409.4639.90358@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> References: <20110612223409.4639.90358@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> Message-ID: <24934B29-7968-4CE2-99A0-F157D6801D65@gmail.com> What about the "masacre" and "stabbing off officials?" These are references that I've heard both from ACB and NFB sources. On Jun 12, 2011, at 6:34 PM, Jedi wrote: > The death threat issued to Jernigan and others came from sighted individuals associated with rival agencies during that time. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> No Josh, it has nothing to do with blindness in my opinion, but >> rather NFB philosophy about blindness. I was surprised as well >> when I heard that, but come to think of it, it isn't that >> surprising considering how radical some people think NFB >> philosophy is. Now I'd like to know, did Dr. Jernigan get a >> death threat from a sighted person or another blind person who >> had something against the NFB, like he was diehard ACB, and what >> was his motive? > >> Chris > >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site: >> www.campabilities.org. > >> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click >> on this link to learn more and to contribute: >> www.icanfoundation.info. > >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by >> phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. >> Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for >> more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: >> nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! > >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Josh Gregory > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list> Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 23:20:27 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > >> Hi, such a respectable person as Dr. Journigan receiving death >> threats? To me that is unheard of that such... um... deplorable >> things could happen to us blind people. >> Josh > >> sent from my Apex >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jedi > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:17:13 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > >> Federationists have received death threats in the past; i can >> recall from my studies that Rammi Rabby and Dr. Jernigan did. > >> Respectfully, >> Jedi > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 28, 2011, at 12:47 AM, "Mike Freeman" > wrote: > >> Darian: > >> WE of NFB often compare ourselves to African-americans because >> we consider >> ourselves, like them, to be a minority group within the larger >> society. >> Certainly, no one would argue that blind people were attacked >> with >> fire-hoses or lynched while trying to exercise their rights. I >> do know of >> plenty of instances when blind persons were arrested for >> refusing to move >> from exit-row seating to which they were legitimately assigned >> on airplanes >> and I know of one incident wherein a blind person was severely >> beaten for >> being a NFB member. > >> I believe there's a bit about this comparison in Dr. Jernigan's >> 1976 banquet >> speech, "Of visions and Vultures". > >> I appreciate your question to clarify the comparison. > >> Mike > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Darian Smith >> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 10:23 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in >> others > >> Mike: >> African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term >> themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon >> how >> they were treated by whites up to that time. >> It is curious that how african-americans were treated is >> always >> one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our >> comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I >> wonder, >> were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully >> protest >> the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we >> safely >> make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I >> could be, >> and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some >> similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our >> histories >> were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on >> largely >> different levels. > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 >> 2%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu >> sbaum%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Jun 12 23:16:27 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 19:16:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Nabs Membership call: Getting Ready for National Convention! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi! It seems like we can't get lucky when it comes to recordings and calls these days. I thought the call was at 7 PM eastern like it normally is, not 6. I misread the time, and thus, there won't be a recording made available again for this month's call. My apologies on behalf of the membership committee. On 6/12/11, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi all, > If you are going to National Convention inFlorida, > I absolutely want you on this call! > > > > Introducing the Nabs Membership call for June: "It's All About Convention > 2011!" > Whether you have been to the National Federation of the Blind's > National Convention before or this year will be your first time going, > come and hear all about what makes convention fun, informative and an > experience you will most likely never forget! Join guest speakers > Karen Anderson and Sean Whalen, who will be on hand to give you an > overview of the convention week, and what events the National > Association of Blind Students will be taking part in and how you can > help. Bring your convention experiences, stories and questions! > > When: Sunday, June 12, 6:00 PM Eastern. > Where: Conference call: (712) 775-7100, passcode 257963. > > Your Nabs Membership Committee > > > -- > Darian Smith > > “My secret? See it, and stay focused on it.” > > — Shaquille O'Neal > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djdrocks4ever%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Jun 12 23:58:41 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 19:58:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Short social Skills conversation Message-ID: <20110612235841.5092.87833@domU-12-31-38-04-0E-D6.compute-1.internal> I'll do it if you're still looking for participants. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hey all, > I will be doing a presentation on social skills for NOPBC this > convention. In preparation, I want to talk to students between the > ages 12-18, to discuss some social challenges you've faced, things you > wished you could have known, things that your parents might have been > able to help with, and how you have created a healthy social nitch for > yourself. Please email me off list if you are willing to talk to me > for a little bit. > I truly appreciate your helps. > Sincerely, > -- > Mary Fernandez > President: Georgia Association of Blind Students > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > "It's not worth doing something unless someone, somewhere, would much > rather you weren't doing it." > Terry Pratchett > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 00:00:01 2011 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:00:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs news and notes Message-ID: Greetings nabsters! I wanted to pass along some things for your knowledge... 1. If you attended todays nabs Convention call, thank you!! some thanks go to, in particular go to 1st vice-president Karen Anderson and 2nd Vice-president Sean Whalen, who took some time out to serve as guest speakers for this call. As well, nabs board member Dominique Lawless, and a host of other folks who added their expiriences in the hopes to make the convention a great time for you. The call was not recorded, but you may go to www.nabslinkaudio.org where you can listen to some recorded calls. 2. 2. Nabs is looking for help with operating some of our most successful events at convention. If you are interested in Marshaling (monte carlo, nabs hospitality, nabs business meeting) being a vote counter/runner at the nabs business meeting, card dealer at monte carlo, or tableing at the nabs exhibit hall table, Please feel free to contact me at dsmithnfb at gmail.com. 3. If your student division had something that they are selling, and would like to share table space at the nabs table in the exhibit hall, you may also contact me. 4. If you have any suggestions for slate articles, or would like to write one, you may contact the slate committee at slate at nabslink.org. Also, if you should find that you are interested in assisting with national membership building projects, or have ideas on how to help nabs membership build, or you evenhave an idea for a membership call that you would like to moderate... please feel free to E-mail nabs.membership at gmail.com 5. Keep a lookout for the student slate, it's coming out soon! Also, watch out at convention for those nabs coffie mugs! that's right... nabs is selling coffie mugs with a whosit, but not just any type of whosit, one with micky mouse ears! you can get it for $10 at the nabs table, so come on out and get your coffie mug on! That's it for now! See you in orlando! -- Darian Smith Board member/ convention volunteer coordinator National Association of Blind Students “My secret? See it, and stay focused on it.” — Shaquille O'Neal From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon Jun 13 00:15:43 2011 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:15:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> David, I have to agree that a discussion on the organizational split might actually be appropriate for this list. Yes, our list's mission is to talk about student issues. At the same time, it is also understood that the student organization represents future leadership. We also talk about philosophical issues that may or may not have anything to do with student status exactly. A discussion on the organizational split is a useful education. How can future leaders learn how to lead the organization if there isn't much education on where we've been? I'm not suggesting that no education is currently present, i'm only suggesting that this list is a great venue for seasoned Federationists to explore our history with newcomers and future leaders. I suggest that the article from the Braille Forum be reattached (I got a bunch of weirdness when I opened the file) with a similar article from the Federation's viewpoint With that said, readers can see both sides. If the discussion has enough interest, we could move it off list to a conference call so as not to clutter the space with too many messages. During such a call, NFB leaders and historians could answer any questions posed to them by the student body while shairing their unique perspectives as individuals who either lived during the split or lived during the early years after the split. What do you think about this possibility? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics > for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke > away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they > disagreed with the way things were done by us. > Dave > At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >> Hi, >> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef >> between the consumer organizations. >> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >> Car: >>> David, >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>> Sincerely, >>> Kirt >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> David: >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >>> opposing view >>>> is he? >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>>> future leaders anyway? >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and >>> say we will >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must >>> our aim--and >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>> principles of >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, >>> and are we not >>>> open to discussion on this? >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there >>> is a hidden >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >>>> Jorge >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Chris: >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort >>> zone a little >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 00:30:07 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:30:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <6185DFE2-68B1-41F9-A2B5-7EF338DAB298@gmail.com> Certainly. Also: the document will work, but only in its original brf form. On Jun 12, 2011, at 8:15 PM, Jedi wrote: > David, > > I have to agree that a discussion on the organizational split might actually be appropriate for this list. Yes, our list's mission is to talk about student issues. At the same time, it is also understood that the student organization represents future leadership. We also talk about philosophical issues that may or may not have anything to do with student status exactly. A discussion on the organizational split is a useful education. How can future leaders learn how to lead the organization if there isn't much education on where we've been? I'm not suggesting that no education is currently present, i'm only suggesting that this list is a great venue for seasoned Federationists to explore our history with newcomers and future leaders. > > I suggest that the article from the Braille Forum be reattached (I got a bunch of weirdness when I opened the file) with a similar article from the Federation's viewpoint With that said, readers can see both sides. If the discussion has enough interest, we could move it off list to a conference call so as not to clutter the space with too many messages. During such a call, NFB leaders and historians could answer any questions posed to them by the student body while shairing their unique perspectives as individuals who either lived during the split or lived during the early years after the split. > > What do you think about this possibility? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics >> for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke >> away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they >> disagreed with the way things were done by us. > >> Dave > >> At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >>> Hi, > >>> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef >>> between the consumer organizations. >>> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >>> Car: >>>> David, >>>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Kirt > >>>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> David: >>>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >>>> opposing view >>>>> is he? >>>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >>>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and >>>> say we will >>>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must >>>> our aim--and >>>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>>> principles of >>>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, >>>> and are we not >>>>> open to discussion on this? >>>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there >>>> is a hidden >>>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > >>>>> Jorge > > >>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>>>> Chris: > >>>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > > > >>>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort >>>> zone a little >>>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 00:32:10 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:32:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4df55aad.d04ee50a.6bd4.ffffb03d@mx.google.com> Hi, what about people that use pcs? I think a doc format would do, there. Well that or rtf. Best, Josh sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez wrote: David: With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing view is he? Is he telling us to join the ACB? No, and I take that as harmless. Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by future leaders anyway? Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we not open to discussion on this? Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden threat in reading a politically contrary paper? I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, but just once won't hurt anyone will it? Jorge On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: Chris: While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. David Andrews, List Owner At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek and Dr. Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind jedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert echjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com From carlymih at earthlink.net Mon Jun 13 00:42:42 2011 From: carlymih at earthlink.net (Carly Mihalakis) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:42:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110612173201.01d47f28@earthlink.net> Hi, Jedi, I believe that a totally enriching idea, making a connection between those who were Federation leaders in past generations with those to whom the torch of leadership has been passed, for a purpose of learning from the real eyewitness accounts of those who were actually THERE! I would be interested to know if others believe this such a constructive and wholistic idea, as I? I believe wrappin' about "cluttering" the List is nonsense. Do we not know where our delete keys are, or what? for today, Car05:15 PM 6/12/2011, Jedi wrote: >David, > >I have to agree that a discussion on the organizational split might >actually be appropriate for this list. Yes, our list's mission is to >talk about student issues. At the same time, it is also understood >that the student organization represents future leadership. We also >talk about philosophical issues that may or may not have anything to >do with student status exactly. A discussion on the organizational >split is a useful education. How can future leaders learn how to >lead the organization if there isn't much education on where we've >been? I'm not suggesting that no education is currently present, i'm >only suggesting that this list is a great venue for seasoned >Federationists to explore our history with newcomers and future leaders. > >I suggest that the article from the Braille Forum be reattached (I >got a bunch of weirdness when I opened the file) with a similar >article from the Federation's viewpoint With that said, readers can >see both sides. If the discussion has enough interest, we could move >it off list to a conference call so as not to clutter the space with >too many messages. During such a call, NFB leaders and historians >could answer any questions posed to them by the student body while >shairing their unique perspectives as individuals who either lived >during the split or lived during the early years after the split. > >What do you think about this possibility? > >Respectfully, >Jedi > >Original message: >>I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics >>for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke >>away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they >>disagreed with the way things were done by us. > >>Dave > >>At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >>>Hi, > >>>We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef >>>between the consumer organizations. >>>There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >>>Car: >>>>David, >>>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>>>the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>>>issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>>>slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>>>circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>>>terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>>> Sincerely, >>>>Kirt > >>>>On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>>David: >>>>>With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>>>After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >>>>opposing view >>>>>is he? >>>>>Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>>>No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>>>Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>>>>future leaders anyway? > >>>>>Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>>>organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >>>>>our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and >>>>say we will >>>>>follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must >>>>our aim--and >>>>>we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>>>principles of >>>>>blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>>>You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, >>>>and are we not >>>>>open to discussion on this? >>>>>Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>>>are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there >>>>is a hidden >>>>>threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>>>I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>>>but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > >>>>>Jorge > > >>>>>On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>>>>Chris: > >>>>>>While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>>>>>and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>>>society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>>>>>list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>>>>>ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>>>David Andrews, List Owner > > > >>>>>>At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>>Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort >>>>zone a little >>>>>>>and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>>>magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>>>>>>a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>>>please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>>>>>Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>>>TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>>>Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>>>States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>>>>>Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >-- >Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net From computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 00:54:28 2011 From: computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:54:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <4df55aad.d04ee50a.6bd4.ffffb03d@mx.google.com> References: <4df55aad.d04ee50a.6bd4.ffffb03d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1C624935-533B-48D5-BF94-2F9DF63AF3BF@gmail.com> problem is that the doc wasn't translated correctly. But, at the risk of getting in deep trouble with David, I'll post the .doc version tomorrow. On Jun 12, 2011, at 8:32 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: > Hi, what about people that use pcs? I think a doc format would do, there. Well that or rtf. > Best, > Josh > > sent from my Apex > Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jorge Paez To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Date sent: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:30:07 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > Certainly. > Also: the document will work, but only in its original brf form. > > > On Jun 12, 2011, at 8:15 PM, Jedi wrote: > > David, > > I have to agree that a discussion on the organizational split might actually be appropriate for this list. Yes, our list's mission is to talk about student issues. At the same time, it is also understood that the student organization represents future leadership. We also talk about philosophical issues that may or may not have anything to do with student status exactly. A discussion on the organizational split is a useful education. How can future leaders learn how to lead the organization if there isn't much education on where we've been? I'm not suggesting that no education is currently present, i'm only suggesting that this list is a great venue for seasoned Federationists to explore our history with newcomers and future leaders. > > I suggest that the article from the Braille Forum be reattached (I got a bunch of weirdness when I opened the file) with a similar article from the Federation's viewpoint With that said, readers can see both sides. If the discussion has enough interest, we could move it off list to a conference call so as not to clutter the space with too many messages. During such a call, NFB leaders and historians could answer any questions posed to them by the student body while shairing their unique perspectives as individuals who either lived during the split or lived during the early years after the split. > > What do you think about this possibility? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: > I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics > for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke > away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they > disagreed with the way things were done by us. > > Dave > > At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > > Hi, > > We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef > between the consumer organizations. > There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! > Car: > David, > I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of > the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical > issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am > slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would > circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in > terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" > Sincerely, > Kirt > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: > David: > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an > opposing view > is he? > Is he telling us to join the ACB? > No, and I take that as harmless. > > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by > future leaders anyway? > > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and > say we will > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must > our aim--and > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our > principles of > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, > and are we not > open to discussion on this? > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there > is a hidden > threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, > but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > > Jorge > > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > > Chris: > > While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, > and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating > society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This > list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the > ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > > David Andrews, List Owner > > > > At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort > zone a little > and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's > magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although > a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, > please especially take time to read the President's Message column from > Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. > TenBroek and Dr. > Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United > States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? > Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind > jedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert > echjorgepaez%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 > 2%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 01:16:47 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:16:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4df56522.8ea4e60a.269e.6bb0@mx.google.com> I see. sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez wrote: David: With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing view is he? Is he telling us to join the ACB? No, and I take that as harmless. Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by future leaders anyway? Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we not open to discussion on this? Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden threat in reading a politically contrary paper? I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, but just once won't hurt anyone will it? Jorge On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: Chris: While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. David Andrews, List Owner At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort zone a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. TenBroek and Dr. Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblind jedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert echjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computert echjorgepaez%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 02:58:20 2011 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 19:58:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT test web site Message-ID: Hello Nabs, I was trying to use the SAT web site from the College Board: http://sat.collegeboard.com/ I have a collegeboard account, so today I opened it and started taking an SAT practice test with multiple choice questions and everything as I need to prepare for a test that I will take tomorrow at my local community college in Braille. On the practice test, I got to the part where I had to answer the multiple choice questions. Well, turns out that the radio buttons for the "A, B, C, D, ETC." answers are accessible with JAWS. Also JAWS was able to read the question clearly, including math equations and numbers. the practice test page was also accessible itself--quite accessible and did not have to route the JAWS cursor at all. However, the only problem I see is that once I get to the question I want to answer, JAWS does read the question and the 5 radio buttons that are present. but he only reports the radio buttons to me along with the A, B, or C information, and he does not report the answer itself. It's like.. for example I read the question and then come across the radio buttons. JAWS would only say: Radio button not check (A) 1 of 5, Radio button not checked (B) 2 of 5, Radio button not checked (e) 5 of 5, ETC. but I don't hear the answer from those possible answers. What would this be? Could it be that the answer choices are in an * Image * that JAWS of course can not see? or why am I not seeing any choice answers on the page? what should I do about this? Will I have to route the JAWS cursor (for those you JAWS users that know this) or what? any comments appreciated. cheers, Humberto From serena.c.cucco at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 03:18:11 2011 From: serena.c.cucco at gmail.com (Serena Cucco) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:18:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT test web site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I haven't come across Jaws not reading answers to multiple choice exams before. You could try using the Jaws cursor and see. Let us know what happens. I'd be interested to know myself. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:58 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] SAT test web site Hello Nabs, I was trying to use the SAT web site from the College Board: http://sat.collegeboard.com/ I have a collegeboard account, so today I opened it and started taking an SAT practice test with multiple choice questions and everything as I need to prepare for a test that I will take tomorrow at my local community college in Braille. On the practice test, I got to the part where I had to answer the multiple choice questions. Well, turns out that the radio buttons for the "A, B, C, D, ETC." answers are accessible with JAWS. Also JAWS was able to read the question clearly, including math equations and numbers. the practice test page was also accessible itself--quite accessible and did not have to route the JAWS cursor at all. However, the only problem I see is that once I get to the question I want to answer, JAWS does read the question and the 5 radio buttons that are present. but he only reports the radio buttons to me along with the A, B, or C information, and he does not report the answer itself. It's like.. for example I read the question and then come across the radio buttons. JAWS would only say: Radio button not check (A) 1 of 5, Radio button not checked (B) 2 of 5, Radio button not checked (e) 5 of 5, ETC. but I don't hear the answer from those possible answers. What would this be? Could it be that the answer choices are in an * Image * that JAWS of course can not see? or why am I not seeing any choice answers on the page? what should I do about this? Will I have to route the JAWS cursor (for those you JAWS users that know this) or what? any comments appreciated. cheers, Humberto _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com From wujing19861209 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 13 03:39:19 2011 From: wujing19861209 at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Jing_Crystal_Wu_=E5=90=B4=E6=99=B6?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 05:39:19 +0200 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT test web site References: Message-ID: Wow! Good question! If anyone knows, I'd be interested to know the answer, too. I tried to prepare for a SAT test before, but it was not that easy at all. Now, I am in university, and soon would have to take GRE test. Prep tests are not easy for us. Crystal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena Cucco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 5:18 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT test web site >I haven't come across Jaws not reading answers to multiple choice exams > before. You could try using the Jaws cursor and see. Let us know what > happens. I'd be interested to know myself. > > Serena > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Humberto Avila > Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:58 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] SAT test web site > > Hello Nabs, > > I was trying to use the SAT web site from the College Board: > http://sat.collegeboard.com/ > > I have a collegeboard account, so today I opened it and started taking an > SAT practice test with multiple choice questions and everything as I need > to > prepare for a test that I will take tomorrow at my local community college > in Braille. > > On the practice test, I got to the part where I had to answer the multiple > choice questions. Well, turns out that the radio buttons for the "A, B, C, > D, ETC." answers are accessible with JAWS. Also JAWS was able to read the > question clearly, including math equations and numbers. the practice test > page was also accessible itself--quite accessible and did not have to > route > the JAWS cursor at all. > However, the only problem I see is that once I get to the question I want > to > answer, JAWS does read the question and the 5 radio buttons that are > present. but he only reports the radio buttons to me along with the A, B, > or > C information, and he does not report the answer itself. It's like.. for > example I read the question and then come across the radio buttons. JAWS > would only say: > Radio button not check (A) 1 of 5, Radio button not checked (B) 2 of 5, > Radio button not checked (e) 5 of 5, ETC. but I don't hear the answer from > those possible answers. > What would this be? Could it be that the answer choices are in an * Image > * > that JAWS of course can not see? or why am I not seeing any choice answers > on the page? > what should I do about this? Will I have to route the JAWS cursor (for > those > you JAWS users that know this) or what? > any comments appreciated. > > cheers, Humberto > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com > From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 03:50:14 2011 From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:50:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] SAT test web site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh by the way I didn't mention this in my original message; I am running JAWS version 12.0 on a Windows XP machine and Internet Explorer version 8.0. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Cucco Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:18 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SAT test web site I haven't come across Jaws not reading answers to multiple choice exams before. You could try using the Jaws cursor and see. Let us know what happens. I'd be interested to know myself. Serena -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Humberto Avila Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:58 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] SAT test web site Hello Nabs, I was trying to use the SAT web site from the College Board: http://sat.collegeboard.com/ I have a collegeboard account, so today I opened it and started taking an SAT practice test with multiple choice questions and everything as I need to prepare for a test that I will take tomorrow at my local community college in Braille. On the practice test, I got to the part where I had to answer the multiple choice questions. Well, turns out that the radio buttons for the "A, B, C, D, ETC." answers are accessible with JAWS. Also JAWS was able to read the question clearly, including math equations and numbers. the practice test page was also accessible itself--quite accessible and did not have to route the JAWS cursor at all. However, the only problem I see is that once I get to the question I want to answer, JAWS does read the question and the 5 radio buttons that are present. but he only reports the radio buttons to me along with the A, B, or C information, and he does not report the answer itself. It's like.. for example I read the question and then come across the radio buttons. JAWS would only say: Radio button not check (A) 1 of 5, Radio button not checked (B) 2 of 5, Radio button not checked (e) 5 of 5, ETC. but I don't hear the answer from those possible answers. What would this be? Could it be that the answer choices are in an * Image * that JAWS of course can not see? or why am I not seeing any choice answers on the page? what should I do about this? Will I have to route the JAWS cursor (for those you JAWS users that know this) or what? any comments appreciated. cheers, Humberto _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2 %40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 04:48:20 2011 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 00:48:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> References: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <079BF180-AC7B-436C-8C81-0C288B26EC10@gmail.com> Jedi, I love the idea of a conference call on this issue. There is a lot that could be gained from such a discussion. Best, Briley On Jun 12, 2011, at 8:15 PM, Jedi wrote: > David, > > I have to agree that a discussion on the organizational split might actually be appropriate for this list. Yes, our list's mission is to talk about student issues. At the same time, it is also understood that the student organization represents future leadership. We also talk about philosophical issues that may or may not have anything to do with student status exactly. A discussion on the organizational split is a useful education. How can future leaders learn how to lead the organization if there isn't much education on where we've been? I'm not suggesting that no education is currently present, i'm only suggesting that this list is a great venue for seasoned Federationists to explore our history with newcomers and future leaders. > > I suggest that the article from the Braille Forum be reattached (I got a bunch of weirdness when I opened the file) with a similar article from the Federation's viewpoint With that said, readers can see both sides. If the discussion has enough interest, we could move it off list to a conference call so as not to clutter the space with too many messages. During such a call, NFB leaders and historians could answer any questions posed to them by the student body while shairing their unique perspectives as individuals who either lived during the split or lived during the early years after the split. > > What do you think about this possibility? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics >> for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke >> away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they >> disagreed with the way things were done by us. > >> Dave > >> At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >>> Hi, > >>> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef >>> between the consumer organizations. >>> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >>> Car: >>>> David, >>>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Kirt > >>>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> David: >>>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >>>> opposing view >>>>> is he? >>>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >>>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and >>>> say we will >>>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must >>>> our aim--and >>>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>>> principles of >>>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, >>>> and are we not >>>>> open to discussion on this? >>>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there >>>> is a hidden >>>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > >>>>> Jorge > > >>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>>>> Chris: > >>>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > > > >>>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort >>>> zone a little >>>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 07:58:28 2011 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:58:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Mark Riccobono Appears Tonight On The Return Of Te Djd Invasion Message-ID: <6EA29651E3A74166A98E2A57320C2FD5@audioaccess1PC> Greetings All! The following is meant to provide information to those who may be interested. If the following does interest you, please consider passing it along! It's been six months since the unfortunate incident that took me, my show, and all the work I had put in to it off the internet! This has given me a lot of time to reevaluate, make some tweaks to my philosophy about online radio, and yes, I've even had time to retweak how my shows will run. And now, after six long months, the microphone has been off long enough! Join us tonight, June 13 2011 at 7:00PM eastern for the return of The Djd Invasion radio show, and even more importantly than that, the launch of a new online radio station with a fresh and exciting concept. It's so easy to find stations online that just play music, do talk shows, etc. But here, we're going to give it to you in one exciting package! That package is known as AudioAccessRadio, Stretching The Boundaries Of Sound Programming! Whether we play your favorite music group, take you on tours of lands and places unknown through special programs or dramatic radio, show you new and exciting pieces of technology, etc, the goal is to provide you with a place that, through the use of audio, you can learn things, have fun, be entertained, and so much more! And the fun begins this evening with our kick off party. Come learn about our station and what we're all about. Listen to some new tunes, and bring along your requests! And if that's not enough, we have a special guest, Mark Riccobono, who will be joining us to discuss the first car that can be driven by the blind. Much has been said about this car, but what is it? Come learn what everyone is talking about. To get in touch, you can send in any requests, comments, or just say hello through email at djd at audioaccessradio.com or through my radio show's personal twitter thedjdinvasion And be warned, you never know when you might just have your chance to call in and join in on the fun! As stated, the fun begins at 7 PM eastern, and what good is a party without guests, so come listen in at http://www.audioaccessradio.com The site will launch a little bit before 7 so you can hear the rest of the pre launch sequence, and make sure you are tuned in when the station takes to the air! If you want to keep receiving similar announcements on your computer about this new station, you can subscribe to our announcements list right now before site launch at http://www.audioaccessradio.com or follow the station's official twitter audioaccess1 and even add us to your skype at audioaccessradio I'm very excited about returning to the internet airwaves. I can't wait to talk with Mark, to play you some great songs, and to interact with you throughout the night. So come, make this party fun. You as listeners will be helping what is, admittedly right now, a small station to grow and get better. I hope you won't miss the party!!! >From David Dunphy, host of The Djd Invasion On The Soon To Be Launched AudioAccessRadio, Stretching The Boundaries Of Sound Programming http://www.audioaccessradio.com From joshkart12 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 08:05:14 2011 From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (Josh Gregory) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 04:05:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Mark Riccobono Appears Tonight On The Return Of Te DjdInvasion Message-ID: <4df5c4de.4a8ee50a.7b58.ffffb34e@mx.google.com> Hi David! First, this has sounded unbelievably awesome from the start to me, and I intend to be streaming it. Secondly, is there an mp3 stream available for people such as myself that use notetakers? Cannot wait to hear it! Best, Josh sent from my Apex Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dunphy" From David Dunphy, host of The Djd Invasion On The Soon To Be Launched AudioAccessRadio, Stretching The Boundaries Of Sound Programming http://www.audioaccessradio.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart1 2%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 12:03:34 2011 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:03:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> Message-ID: <4df5fc99.1c4de50a.7bf7.ffffb497@mx.google.com> -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:16 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others David,I like that idea. Rania, I have to agree that a discussion on the organizational split might actually be appropriate for this list. Yes, our list's mission is to talk about student issues. At the same time, it is also understood that the student organization represents future leadership. We also talk about philosophical issues that may or may not have anything to do with student status exactly. A discussion on the organizational split is a useful education. How can future leaders learn how to lead the organization if there isn't much education on where we've been? I'm not suggesting that no education is currently present, i'm only suggesting that this list is a great venue for seasoned Federationists to explore our history with newcomers and future leaders. I suggest that the article from the Braille Forum be reattached (I got a bunch of weirdness when I opened the file) with a similar article from the Federation's viewpoint With that said, readers can see both sides. If the discussion has enough interest, we could move it off list to a conference call so as not to clutter the space with too many messages. During such a call, NFB leaders and historians could answer any questions posed to them by the student body while shairing their unique perspectives as individuals who either lived during the split or lived during the early years after the split. What do you think about this possibility? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics > for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke > away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they > disagreed with the way things were done by us. > Dave > At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >> Hi, >> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef >> between the consumer organizations. >> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >> Car: >>> David, >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>> Sincerely, >>> Kirt >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> David: >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >>> opposing view >>>> is he? >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>> No, and I take that as harmless. >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by >>>> future leaders anyway? >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and >>> say we will >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must >>> our aim--and >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>> principles of >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, >>> and are we not >>>> open to discussion on this? >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there >>> is a hidden >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? >>>> Jorge >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>>> Chris: >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate, >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. This >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort >>> zone a little >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. Although >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? >>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 17:28:39 2011 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:28:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others In-Reply-To: <4df5fc99.1c4de50a.7bf7.ffffb497@mx.google.com> References: <20110613001543.9061.57894@ip-10-203-66-216.ec2.internal> <4df5fc99.1c4de50a.7bf7.ffffb497@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If such a thing were set up, I'd do my best to attend as long as it didn't conflict with anything super important. *grin* On 6/13/11, Rania Ismail CMT wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:16 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others > > David,I like that idea. > Rania, > > I have to agree that a discussion on the organizational split might > actually be appropriate for this list. Yes, our list's mission is to > talk about student issues. At the same time, it is also understood that > the student organization represents future leadership. We also talk > about philosophical issues that may or may not have anything to do with > student status exactly. A discussion on the organizational split is a > useful education. How can future leaders learn how to lead the > organization if there isn't much education on where we've been? I'm not > suggesting that no education is currently present, i'm only suggesting > that this list is a great venue for seasoned Federationists to explore > our history with newcomers and future leaders. > > I suggest that the article from the Braille Forum be reattached (I got > a bunch of weirdness when I opened the file) with a similar article > from the Federation's viewpoint With that said, readers can see both > sides. If the discussion has enough interest, we could move it off list > to a conference call so as not to clutter the space with too many > messages. During such a call, NFB leaders and historians could answer > any questions posed to them by the student body while shairing their > unique perspectives as individuals who either lived during the split or > lived during the early years after the split. > > What do you think about this possibility? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics >> for which it was intended. And ... the history was that people broke >> away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they >> disagreed with the way things were done by us. > >> Dave > >> At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: > > >>> Hi, > >>> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef >>> between the consumer organizations. >>> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here! >>> Car: >>>> David, >>>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of >>>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical >>>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels. But I am >>>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would >>>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor describing the split in >>>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?" >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Kirt > >>>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> David: >>>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind? > >>>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an >>>> opposing view >>>>> is he? >>>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB? >>>>> No, and I take that as harmless. > >>>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up > by >>>>> future leaders anyway? > >>>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the >>>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so > must >>>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and >>>> say we will >>>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must >>>> our aim--and >>>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our >>>> principles of >>>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk. > >>>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, >>>> and are we not >>>>> open to discussion on this? >>>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do, >>>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there >>>> is a hidden >>>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper? > >>>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why, >>>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it? > > >>>>> Jorge > > >>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>>>> Chris: > >>>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is > inappropriate, >>>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list. This is not a debating >>>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum. > This >>>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of > the >>>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB. > >>>>>> David Andrews, List Owner > > > >>>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote: >>>>>>> Hmm... that's interesting. Well, I went out of my comfort >>>> zone a little >>>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's >>>>>>> magazine) by email. I will attach this month's Braille Forum. > Although >>>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, >>>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column > from >>>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz. You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr. >>>>>>> TenBroek and Dr. >>>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United >>>>>>> States. What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too > much? >>>>>>> Oh heck... another little debate won't hurt. * Smile! > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com Mon Jun 13 20:07:22 2011 From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:07:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others Message-ID: <4df66e27.e925340a.0c58.ffffa587@mx.google.com> Hi David, Thanks for clarifying! I guess I was getting into a pretty touchy subject. So, I'll just keep the Forums when I get them for my own reading and send them to people offlist if I think they might be interesting. I just wanted to see what people thought of the ACB's president's comments. So, guess that's my warning before you delete my email address from the list. * Smile! Thanks! Sorry for anyone who was offended. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: David Andrews And the old Narrator. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirt Manwaring wrote: dec talk sounds too robotic! Its annoying. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying. But the Dectalk archive songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence. Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site. Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Thank you for the backup Jorge! Great advice! To add to what you said, I would be surprised if I got the same response from sending an article expressing a controversial point of view from the Monitor. This is all politics, partisan politics. Read "The Nature of Independence." Chris "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto) To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info. PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N. Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!! --- Sent from my BrailleNote ----- Original Message ----- From: Jorge Paez