[nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Thu Jun 2 00:38:58 UTC 2011


In our case then, do you think more could have or can happen
if the NFB and ACB spend more time working together and less time 
bickering and "attacking each other's philosophy?" Yes, in fact I 
do.

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
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--- Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:35:34 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others

Mike,
  In the African-american struggle for huma rights, there 
were/are
lots of different philosophies and approaches taken by a lot of
different people-you probably know more about that than me having
lived through a lot of the craziness.  Do you think more could've
happened faster if...say, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X spent 
less
time bickering and more time cooperating or, at the very least,
ignoring each other?  I'm not denying that both of them did a lot 
to
better the condition of black people...but imagine what could've
happened if the two of them didn't take so long to reconcile-or, 
if
nothing else, if they didn't spend time attacking each others'
philosophies and devoted that energy to their respective 
movements?
  Could that comparison be aplicable to us?  Am I remiss when I 
say
that we in NFB sometimes spend too much time attacking the
philosophies of other blind people rather than advancing our own
philosophy?  Am I remiss in saying that many in the ACB spend 
more
time trying to tear down the Federation instead of building up 
the
Council?  Why can't we, if nothing else, leave each other alone 
and
spend all our time working on our own goals?
  Maybe we could take that comparison further, to incolude 
individual
blind people who disagree with us.  Ideally we should try to 
engage in
constructive dialogue and find some sort of common ground with 
people
who disagree and, for example, have next to no travel or daily 
living
skills.  After all, we hope they'll "see the light", so to speak, 
and
become empowered with good training.  But let's say they don't 
accept
our philosophy...whether they're compitent blind people or not, 
let's
say they want nothing to do with the Federation.  I say first we 
try
and learn whatever we can from them, no matter their skills and
atitude (or lack thereof).  Once we've learned something from 
them,
even if it's as simple as "I need to have better cane skills" or 
"this
guy has terrible hygiene-at least I know now why it's so 
important to
take showers!", then I think we try and let them learn from us.  
That
can either be  by talking or by them looking at our example...if 
they
chose to not accept our world view, there's no reason to get 
angry and
defensive.  There is still probably common ground somewhere and, 
even
in the highly unlikely event you can't find any (which is 
probably due
to you not looking hard enough), just ignore the person and move 
on.
If we can't be friends, there's no reason to be enemies...live 
and let
live, and all that jazz.
  Warmly,
Kirt

On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
 I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place.  
However, you
 could do worse than to read Dr.  Floyd Matson's book, "Walking 
Alone and
 marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS 
Web-braille
 site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, 
James
 McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council 
of the
 Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites.

 It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB 
convention
 banquet speechdes of Drs.  tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer.

 I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said 
Federationism was easy!
 (huge grin)

 Mike


 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Josh Gregory
 Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in 
others

 Is there a site with...  the history of blind people and what
 they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread.
 Josh

 sent from my Apex
 Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:52:47 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in 
others

 Although I was never subject to one, I can still remember when,
 at late as
 the 1960's, welfare workers conducted "night raids" with the 
help
 of the
 police wherein said workers would visit blind clients and go
 through their
 homes to make sure that nothing had been bought that would
 indicate that the
 clients had unreported income.  This extended even to such items
 as a new
 dress.

 I echo Briley's sentiments that many today have no concept of
 what went down
 in the past.

 Mike


 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Briley Pollard
 Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:28 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in 
others

 I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our
 struggle for
 civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black American
 experience,
 but we have struggled for civil rights.  Go read some history on
 how blind
 people have been treated by families and institutions over the
 years.  Blind
 children were targets for sexual assault in extremely high
 numbers because
 they were considered to be vulnerable.  They were placed in
 horrific living
 conditions throughout history in institutions because families
 believed that
 blindness was equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be
 able to
 succeed or help out their relatives.  As a people group, we have
 suffered
 many indignities that I don't think the current generation of
 blind people
 even come close to realizing.

 Best,
 Briley
 On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote:

  Mike:
  African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term
  themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon
 how
  they were treated by whites  up to that time.
   It is curious that how    african-americans were treated is
 always
  one of the first ways we as blind  people choose to make our
  comparisons in our struggle  for first-class citizanship.  I
 wonder,
  were blind people  beatin and hosed down when they peacefully
 protest
  the unjust ways they were treated? Were  they lybnched?  Can we
 safely
  make those  comparisons?  unless  I am missing something (I
 could be,
  and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we  have 
some
  similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our
 histories
  were quite different and  the scars, deaths,risks were felt on
 largely
  different levels.
  Just  some thoughts on  the matter,and I very much appreciate
 the
 question.
   Respectfully,
   Darian

  On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
  Darian:

  What do  you think African-americans would have said during the
  1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would
 rather
  date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black
 persons
 dating?

  Mike


  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  Behalf Of Darian Smith
  Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in
 others

  Jedi,
   Sure-let me see...
  We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal 
with
  situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life.  
For
  example We like to use  the term "blind"  as opposed to
 "visually
  impaired" or any variant there of.  We also like if a person
 uses
  products with Braille  on them (braille watches, braille
 compass,
  braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people
 who
  don't utilize these things seem lesser for not.
   I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted  
gentleman
 than
  a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of 
two
  blind people dating.
   Personally I may feel a certain way about  these things, but I
 would
  like to think that  it's  huge to  consider where each person 
is
 in
  their life and  accept them into the  fold as they are.    I am
 fine
  with educatinn,  so long as  we arn't critical and that we are
  accepting, because  seems to me that weas people hate to be 
told
 that we
 are "wrong"
  for thinking like we do.
   Does that make sense?
   Respecgfully,
   Darian


  On 5/26/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
  Very good points.
   We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's  good to
  remember that  there are other minorities out there.  How does
 one
  member of a minority group address another member of that same
 group
  if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should
 in
  public?  Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive
 image
  of the rest of that group to society?
     I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with
 it
  varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not  take  it
 upon
  ourselves to change the worlds opinions.  I think we can model
 that
  positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that
 probably is
  the  healthiest way to approach this  idea of
 perception-changing
  that we  think about alot,  Does that make sense?
   thoughts?

  On 5/26/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
  Excellent points.

  I'm going to add to that some.

  I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when
  they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness
 or
  discrimination.  I've been doing some research on the effects 
of
  such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible
  audience for the blind person in question.  This audience is
 made of
  both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts
 like
  "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I
 react this
 or that way?
  What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will
  sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose
  situation where the stakes are high.  Aside from causing stress
 that
  limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also
  creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived
  threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of 
efficacy
 in the
 interaction.
  So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind
 person
  to feel ineffective as it is.  But the invisible audience
 concept
  boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved
  with feeling like they have to show themselves as both 
effective
  and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person
  who's offering it.  Is any of this making sense? So the bottom
 line
  is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, 
we
  may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high
  stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability
 to
  present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to
 the
 public.

  On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it
 in
  our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about
 us.
  The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility.
 Sure, we
  want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does 
everyone
  else.  The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions
 of one
 person.
  But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about
 that
  except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our
  population.  Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely
 that
  the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're
 all
  amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception
 to
  a rule.  It seems to me that the only people who really get 
that
  we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to
 deconstruct
  society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough
  diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge 
all
 of
  us based on one
  person.

  Respectfully,
  Jedi

  Original message:
  That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap
 of
  taking responsibility for others' actions.  When we do that, we
  lose sight of our own goals and direction in life.  Unless
 you're a
  therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it
 is
  not your job to fix them.  Even as a therapist or teacher, your
  place is to be a mentor and an instructor.  As I previously
 said,
  if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative
 ways
  of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old
  patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows
 a
  lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves.
 So
  if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them!
  That person will either fall hard when they find out their
  parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't
  take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs
 to
  happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and
  want to change it.  And if people hold it against a decent 
blind
  person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's
  not worth it to try and make them feel any differently.  They
 will
  either come around in time or they
  won't.  Choice is the key word here.
  Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not
  hurting anyone.  So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to
 lose
  out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as
 soon
  as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about 
that
  other person real quick

  On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com> wrote:
  I think the reason why this might go down is because of the 
view
  that we get from the public in general.  Most people who are
  sighted are not used to a blind person.  You have to understand
  that one blind person being seen is a huge thing.  They're now
  reliable for what a person thinks about blind people.  They are
  the ones setting an example.  So if you have a blind person who
  smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the
  proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and 
say
  that all blind people are like that.  i'm not saying it's right
  for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills
 set
  that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out 
because
  they are representing blind people.  It puts a bad label on us
  blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to
 be
  independent and succeed.  like i said, i'm not saying it's 
right
  but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a
  negative conotation.  Not all blind people poke their eyes,
 rock,
  hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their
  own clothes, or anything like that.  So to be part of a group
  that's going to display such a view that is negative to the
 public,
 we fall right behind that.  Am I making sense?

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  --
  Darian Smith
  Skype: The_Blind_Truth
  Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
  http://twitter.com/goldengateace

  "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.

  - Robert Byrne



  --
  Darian Smith
  Skype: The_Blind_Truth
  Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
  http://twitter.com/goldengateace

  "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.

  - Robert Byrne

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  --
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  Skype: The_Blind_Truth
  Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
  http://twitter.com/goldengateace

  "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.

  - Robert Byrne

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