[nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Thu Jun 2 01:13:29 UTC 2011
Chris,
That's just the resolutions-they have banquet speeches and
presidential releases going all the way back.
On 6/1/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris:
> I've seen them working together a lot lately which surprises me.
> But as long as its for the good of the community yes, I would agree with
> you.
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>> In our case then, do you think more could have or can happen
>> if the NFB and ACB spend more time working together and less time
>> bickering and "attacking each other's philosophy?" Yes, in fact I do.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near you, just
>> click on this link to their national Web site: www.campabilities.org.
>>
>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland have
>> the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link to learn
>> more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info.
>>
>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N. Foundation's Night
>> Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 4th! They're only 6 dollars
>> per ticket and all proceeds go to the Foundation to help the blind and
>> visually impaired youth in Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting
>> Wendy Nusbaum by phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at
>> wendynusbaum at yahoo.com. Visit the above link to the I C.A.N. Foundation
>> Web site for more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N.
>> Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!!
>>
>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:35:34 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> Mike,
>> In the African-american struggle for huma rights, there were/are
>> lots of different philosophies and approaches taken by a lot of
>> different people-you probably know more about that than me having
>> lived through a lot of the craziness. Do you think more could've
>> happened faster if...say, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X spent less
>> time bickering and more time cooperating or, at the very least,
>> ignoring each other? I'm not denying that both of them did a lot to
>> better the condition of black people...but imagine what could've
>> happened if the two of them didn't take so long to reconcile-or, if
>> nothing else, if they didn't spend time attacking each others'
>> philosophies and devoted that energy to their respective movements?
>> Could that comparison be aplicable to us? Am I remiss when I say
>> that we in NFB sometimes spend too much time attacking the
>> philosophies of other blind people rather than advancing our own
>> philosophy? Am I remiss in saying that many in the ACB spend more
>> time trying to tear down the Federation instead of building up the
>> Council? Why can't we, if nothing else, leave each other alone and
>> spend all our time working on our own goals?
>> Maybe we could take that comparison further, to incolude individual
>> blind people who disagree with us. Ideally we should try to engage in
>> constructive dialogue and find some sort of common ground with people
>> who disagree and, for example, have next to no travel or daily living
>> skills. After all, we hope they'll "see the light", so to speak, and
>> become empowered with good training. But let's say they don't accept
>> our philosophy...whether they're compitent blind people or not, let's
>> say they want nothing to do with the Federation. I say first we try
>> and learn whatever we can from them, no matter their skills and
>> atitude (or lack thereof). Once we've learned something from them,
>> even if it's as simple as "I need to have better cane skills" or "this
>> guy has terrible hygiene-at least I know now why it's so important to
>> take showers!", then I think we try and let them learn from us. That
>> can either be by talking or by them looking at our example...if they
>> chose to not accept our world view, there's no reason to get angry and
>> defensive. There is still probably common ground somewhere and, even
>> in the highly unlikely event you can't find any (which is probably due
>> to you not looking hard enough), just ignore the person and move on.
>> If we can't be friends, there's no reason to be enemies...live and let
>> live, and all that jazz.
>> Warmly,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place. However, you
>> could do worse than to read Dr. Floyd Matson's book, "Walking Alone and
>> marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS
>> Web-braille
>> site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, James
>> McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council of the
>> Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites.
>>
>> It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB convention
>> banquet speechdes of Drs. tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer.
>>
>> I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said Federationism was
>> easy!
>> (huge grin)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Josh Gregory
>> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> Is there a site with... the history of blind people and what
>> they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread.
>> Josh
>>
>> sent from my Apex
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:52:47 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> Although I was never subject to one, I can still remember when,
>> at late as
>> the 1960's, welfare workers conducted "night raids" with the help
>> of the
>> police wherein said workers would visit blind clients and go
>> through their
>> homes to make sure that nothing had been bought that would
>> indicate that the
>> clients had unreported income. This extended even to such items
>> as a new
>> dress.
>>
>> I echo Briley's sentiments that many today have no concept of
>> what went down
>> in the past.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Briley Pollard
>> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:28 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>>
>> I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our
>> struggle for
>> civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black American
>> experience,
>> but we have struggled for civil rights. Go read some history on
>> how blind
>> people have been treated by families and institutions over the
>> years. Blind
>> children were targets for sexual assault in extremely high
>> numbers because
>> they were considered to be vulnerable. They were placed in
>> horrific living
>> conditions throughout history in institutions because families
>> believed that
>> blindness was equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be
>> able to
>> succeed or help out their relatives. As a people group, we have
>> suffered
>> many indignities that I don't think the current generation of
>> blind people
>> even come close to realizing.
>>
>> Best,
>> Briley
>> On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote:
>>
>> Mike:
>> African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term
>> themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon
>> how
>> they were treated by whites up to that time.
>> It is curious that how african-americans were treated is
>> always
>> one of the first ways we as blind people choose to make our
>> comparisons in our struggle for first-class citizanship. I
>> wonder,
>> were blind people beatin and hosed down when they peacefully
>> protest
>> the unjust ways they were treated? Were they lybnched? Can we
>> safely
>> make those comparisons? unless I am missing something (I
>> could be,
>> and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we have some
>> similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our
>> histories
>> were quite different and the scars, deaths,risks were felt on
>> largely
>> different levels.
>> Just some thoughts on the matter,and I very much appreciate
>> the
>> question.
>> Respectfully,
>> Darian
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>> Darian:
>>
>> What do you think African-americans would have said during the
>> 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would
>> rather
>> date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black
>> persons
>> dating?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Darian Smith
>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in
>> others
>>
>> Jedi,
>> Sure-let me see...
>> We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with
>> situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life. For
>> example We like to use the term "blind" as opposed to
>> "visually
>> impaired" or any variant there of. We also like if a person
>> uses
>> products with Braille on them (braille watches, braille
>> compass,
>> braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people
>> who
>> don't utilize these things seem lesser for not.
>> I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted gentleman
>> than
>> a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two
>> blind people dating.
>> Personally I may feel a certain way about these things, but I
>> would
>> like to think that it's huge to consider where each person is
>> in
>> their life and accept them into the fold as they are. I am
>> fine
>> with educatinn, so long as we arn't critical and that we are
>> accepting, because seems to me that weas people hate to be told
>> that we
>> are "wrong"
>> for thinking like we do.
>> Does that make sense?
>> Respecgfully,
>> Darian
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Very good points.
>> We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's good to
>> remember that there are other minorities out there. How does
>> one
>> member of a minority group address another member of that same
>> group
>> if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should
>> in
>> public? Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive
>> image
>> of the rest of that group to society?
>> I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with
>> it
>> varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not take it
>> upon
>> ourselves to change the worlds opinions. I think we can model
>> that
>> positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that
>> probably is
>> the healthiest way to approach this idea of
>> perception-changing
>> that we think about alot, Does that make sense?
>> thoughts?
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
>> Excellent points.
>>
>> I'm going to add to that some.
>>
>> I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when
>> they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness
>> or
>> discrimination. I've been doing some research on the effects of
>> such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible
>> audience for the blind person in question. This audience is
>> made of
>> both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts
>> like
>> "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I
>> react this
>> or that way?
>> What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will
>> sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose
>> situation where the stakes are high. Aside from causing stress
>> that
>> limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also
>> creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived
>> threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy
>> in the
>> interaction.
>> So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind
>> person
>> to feel ineffective as it is. But the invisible audience
>> concept
>> boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved
>> with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective
>> and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person
>> who's offering it. Is any of this making sense? So the bottom
>> line
>> is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we
>> may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high
>> stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability
>> to
>> present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to
>> the
>> public.
>>
>> On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it
>> in
>> our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about
>> us.
>> The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility.
>> Sure, we
>> want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone
>> else. The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions
>> of one
>> person.
>> But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about
>> that
>> except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our
>> population. Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely
>> that
>> the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're
>> all
>> amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception
>> to
>> a rule. It seems to me that the only people who really get that
>> we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to
>> deconstruct
>> society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough
>> diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all
>> of
>> us based on one
>> person.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Original message:
>> That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap
>> of
>> taking responsibility for others' actions. When we do that, we
>> lose sight of our own goals and direction in life. Unless
>> you're a
>> therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it
>> is
>> not your job to fix them. Even as a therapist or teacher, your
>> place is to be a mentor and an instructor. As I previously
>> said,
>> if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative
>> ways
>> of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old
>> patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows
>> a
>> lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves.
>> So
>> if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them!
>> That person will either fall hard when they find out their
>> parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't
>> take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs
>> to
>> happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and
>> want to change it. And if people hold it against a decent blind
>> person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's
>> not worth it to try and make them feel any differently. They
>> will
>> either come around in time or they
>> won't. Choice is the key word here.
>> Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not
>> hurting anyone. So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to
>> lose
>> out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as
>> soon
>> as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that
>> other person real quick
>>
>> On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view
>> that we get from the public in general. Most people who are
>> sighted are not used to a blind person. You have to understand
>> that one blind person being seen is a huge thing. They're now
>> reliable for what a person thinks about blind people. They are
>> the ones setting an example. So if you have a blind person who
>> smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the
>> proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say
>> that all blind people are like that. i'm not saying it's right
>> for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills
>> set
>> that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because
>> they are representing blind people. It puts a bad label on us
>> blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to
>> be
>> independent and succeed. like i said, i'm not saying it's right
>> but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a
>> negative conotation. Not all blind people poke their eyes,
>> rock,
>> hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their
>> own clothes, or anything like that. So to be part of a group
>> that's going to display such a view that is negative to the
>> public,
>> we fall right behind that. Am I making sense?
>>
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>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
>> http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>
>> - Robert Byrne
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com Follow me on twitter:
>> http://twitter.com/goldengateace
>>
>> "The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
>>
>> - Robert Byrne
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>>
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