[nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others

Thu Jun 9 19:55:31 UTC 2011

 Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone 
a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille 
Forum (ACB's magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's 
Braille Forum.  Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics 
of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read 
the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see 
there what he says about the NFB and Dr.  TenBroek and Dr.  
Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the 
United States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the 
pot too much? Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * 
Smile!

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near 
you, just click on this link to their national Web site: 
www.campabilities.org.

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in 
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click 
on this link to learn more and to contribute: 
www.icanfoundation.info.

PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.  
Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 
4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the 
Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in 
Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by 
email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I 
C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on 
Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope 
to see you at the game!!!

--- Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 21:06:49 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others

Chris:
I've seen them working together a lot lately which surprises me.
But as long as its for the good of the community yes, I would 
agree with you.

On Jun 1, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

 In our case then, do you think more could have or can happen
 if the NFB and ACB spend more time working together and less 
time bickering and "attacking each other's philosophy?" Yes, in 
fact I do.

 Chris

 "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities 
motto)
 To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near 
you, just click on this link to their national Web site: 
www.campabilities.org.

 The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in 
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click 
on this link to learn more and to contribute: 
www.icanfoundation.info.

 PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.  
Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June 
4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the 
Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in 
Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by 
phone at 410-984-4369 or by email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  
Visit the above link to the I C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for 
more information or join us on Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: 
nonprofit organization." Hope to see you at the game!!!

 --- Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:35:34 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in 
others

 Mike,
 In the African-american struggle for huma rights, there were/are
 lots of different philosophies and approaches taken by a lot of
 different people-you probably know more about that than me 
having
 lived through a lot of the craziness.  Do you think more 
could've
 happened faster if...say, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X spent 
less
 time bickering and more time cooperating or, at the very least,
 ignoring each other?  I'm not denying that both of them did a 
lot to
 better the condition of black people...but imagine what could've
 happened if the two of them didn't take so long to reconcile-or, 
if
 nothing else, if they didn't spend time attacking each others'
 philosophies and devoted that energy to their respective 
movements?
 Could that comparison be aplicable to us?  Am I remiss when I 
say
 that we in NFB sometimes spend too much time attacking the
 philosophies of other blind people rather than advancing our own
 philosophy?  Am I remiss in saying that many in the ACB spend 
more
 time trying to tear down the Federation instead of building up 
the
 Council?  Why can't we, if nothing else, leave each other alone 
and
 spend all our time working on our own goals?
 Maybe we could take that comparison further, to incolude 
individual
 blind people who disagree with us.  Ideally we should try to 
engage in
 constructive dialogue and find some sort of common ground with 
people
 who disagree and, for example, have next to no travel or daily 
living
 skills.  After all, we hope they'll "see the light", so to 
speak, and
 become empowered with good training.  But let's say they don't 
accept
 our philosophy...whether they're compitent blind people or not, 
let's
 say they want nothing to do with the Federation.  I say first we 
try
 and learn whatever we can from them, no matter their skills and
 atitude (or lack thereof).  Once we've learned something from 
them,
 even if it's as simple as "I need to have better cane skills" or 
"this
 guy has terrible hygiene-at least I know now why it's so 
important to
 take showers!", then I think we try and let them learn from us.  
That
 can either be  by talking or by them looking at our example...if 
they
 chose to not accept our world view, there's no reason to get 
angry and
 defensive.  There is still probably common ground somewhere and, 
even
 in the highly unlikely event you can't find any (which is 
probably due
 to you not looking hard enough), just ignore the person and move 
on.
 If we can't be friends, there's no reason to be enemies...live 
and let
 live, and all that jazz.
 Warmly,
 Kirt

 On 5/28/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
 I know of no site that has everything gathered in one place.  
However, you
 could do worse than to read Dr.  Floyd Matson's book, "Walking 
Alone and
 marching together" (available on the NFB website and via the NLS 
Web-braille
 site) and, if you'd wish to see the alternative point-of-view, 
James
 McGivern's "People of Vision: a History of the american Council 
of the
 Blind", also available from the NLS Web-braille and BARD sites.

 It might also behoove us all to reread or re-listen-to the NFB 
convention
 banquet speechdes of Drs.  tenBroke, Jernigan and Maurer.

 I know that's a lot of reading but no one ever said 
Federationism was easy!
 (huge grin)

 Mike

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Josh Gregory
 Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:07 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in 
others

 Is there a site with...  the history of blind people and what
 they went through? I'm curious now, this is a good thread.
 Josh

 sent from my Apex
 Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:52:47 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in 
others

 Although I was never subject to one, I can still remember when,
 at late as
 the 1960's, welfare workers conducted "night raids" with the 
help
 of the
 police wherein said workers would visit blind clients and go
 through their
 homes to make sure that nothing had been bought that would
 indicate that the
 clients had unreported income.  This extended even to such items
 as a new
 dress.

 I echo Briley's sentiments that many today have no concept of
 what went down
 in the past.

 Mike

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Briley Pollard
 Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 7:28 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in 
others

 I think it is not always an appropriate comparison to say our
 struggle for
 civil rights isn't completely parallel with the black American
 experience,
 but we have struggled for civil rights.  Go read some history on
 how blind
 people have been treated by families and institutions over the
 years.  Blind
 children were targets for sexual assault in extremely high
 numbers because
 they were considered to be vulnerable.  They were placed in
 horrific living
 conditions throughout history in institutions because families
 believed that
 blindness was equal to ineffectiveness, and that they'd never be
 able to
 succeed or help out their relatives.  As a people group, we have
 suffered
 many indignities that I don't think the current generation of
 blind people
 even come close to realizing.

 Best,
 Briley
 On May 28, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Darian Smith wrote:

 Mike:
 African-Americans/blacks (however one choosses to term
 themselves)would not have been too keen on the idea based upon
 how
 they were treated by whites  up to that time.
  It is curious that how    african-americans were treated is
 always
 one of the first ways we as blind  people choose to make our
 comparisons in our struggle  for first-class citizanship.  I
 wonder,
 were blind people  beatin and hosed down when they peacefully
 protest
 the unjust ways they were treated? Were  they lybnched?  Can we
 safely
 make those  comparisons?  unless  I am missing something (I
 could be,
 and it wouldn't be the first or last time I have), we  have some
 similarities with regards to civil rights, but largely our
 histories
 were quite different and  the scars, deaths,risks were felt on
 largely
 different levels.
 Just  some thoughts on  the matter,and I very much appreciate
 the
 question.
  Respectfully,
  Darian

 On 5/26/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
 Darian:

 What do  you think African-americans would have said during the
 1950's and 1960's had one of their number said he/she would
 rather
 date a Caucasian person because of the concern for two black
 persons
 dating?

 Mike

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf Of Darian Smith
 Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 5:49 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in
 others

 Jedi,
  Sure-let me see...
 We as federationests have certain ways that we like to deal with
 situations, ways that we see life or phrase things in life.  For
 example We like to use  the term "blind"  as opposed to
 "visually
 impaired" or any variant there of.  We also like if a person
 uses
 products with Braille  on them (braille watches, braille
 compass,
 braille books and the like, but somehow we tend to make people
 who
 don't utilize these things seem lesser for not.
  I have a friend who would much rather date a sighted  gentleman
 than
 a blind gentleman because she is concerned about the idea of two
 blind people dating.
  Personally I may feel a certain way about  these things, but I
 would
 like to think that  it's  huge to  consider where each person is
 in
 their life and  accept them into the  fold as they are.    I am
 fine
 with educatinn,  so long as  we arn't critical and that we are
 accepting, because  seems to me that weas people hate to be told
 that we
 are "wrong"
 for thinking like we do.
  Does that make sense?
  Respecgfully,
  Darian

 On 5/26/11, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
 Very good points.
  We as blind people are a minority, and I think it's  good to
 remember that  there are other minorities out there.  How does
 one
 member of a minority group address another member of that same
 group
 if they don't feel that this person is acting like they should
 in
 public?  Don't feel like this person is projecting a positive
 image
 of the rest of that group to society?
    I believe that we all face that problem and how we deal with
 it
 varies, but I would hope that we know enough to not  take  it
 upon
 ourselves to change the worlds opinions.  I think we can model
 that
 positive image that is with in our grasp to become, that
 probably is
 the  healthiest way to approach this  idea of
 perception-changing
 that we  think about alot,  Does that make sense?
  thoughts?

 On 5/26/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
 Excellent points.

 I'm going to add to that some.

 I've noticed that we also tend to judge a person's actions when
 they attempt to handle a vexing situation like overhelpfulness
 or
 discrimination.  I've been doing some research on the effects of
 such judgment and have concluded that it creates an invisible
 audience for the blind person in question.  This audience is
 made of
 both the blind and the sighted community and creates thoughts
 like
 "What will my blind friends and colleagues think of me if I
 react this
 or that way?
 What will the sighted person I'm talking to think? What will
 sighted bystanders think?" What this does is create a win/lose
 situation where the stakes are high.  Aside from causing stress
 that
 limits problem-solving ability, this high stakes situation also
 creates a greater likelihood of negative response to perceived
 threats to the blind person's self-concept and sense of efficacy
 in the
 interaction.
 So for example, an overly helpful person might cause a blind
 person
 to feel ineffective as it is.  But the invisible audience
 concept
 boosts that feeling considerably because of the stress involved
 with feeling like they have to show themselves as both effective
 and graceful in handling both the offers of help and the person
 who's offering it.  Is any of this making sense? So the bottom
 line
 is that by trying to be the perfect ambassador for the blind, we
 may be shooting ourselves in the foot by creating such a high
 stakes situation in our mind that the stress lowers our ability
 to
 present the cool, calm, and effective image we want to offer to
 the
 public.

 On that note, I've noticed that our community seems to have it
 in
 our heads that we're responsible for how the sighted feel about
 us.
 The truth is that there are limits to that responsibility.
 Sure, we
 want to set a good impression in all areas, but so does everyone
 else.  The sad truth is that we are judged based on the actions
 of one
 person.
 But the thing is, there's nothing that we can really do about
 that
 except to expose a given sighted person to the diversity of our
 population.  Even if we set the perfect impression, it's likely
 that
 the sighted person will still stereotype by saying that we're
 all
 amazing or that the one individual in question is the exception
 to
 a rule.  It seems to me that the only people who really get that
 we're as diverse as they are are those who know how to
 deconstruct
 society's grand narrative or are those who have seen enough
 diversity in our population to realize that they can't judge all
 of
 us based on one
 person.

 Respectfully,
 Jedi

 Original message:
 That makes perfect sense, but we should not fall into the trap
 of
 taking responsibility for others' actions.  When we do that, we
 lose sight of our own goals and direction in life.  Unless
 you're a
 therapist, or a rehab teacher working with people like that, it
 is
 not your job to fix them.  Even as a therapist or teacher, your
 place is to be a mentor and an instructor.  As I previously
 said,
 if that person, after being shown compassion and alternative
 ways
 of thinking, doing and living chooses to fall back into old
 patterns as soon as the instructor's back is turned, that shows
 a
 lack of respect for everyone around them, including themselves.
 So
 if a person wants to wallow in misery and self-pity, let them!
 That person will either fall hard when they find out their
 parents/family members/significant other or what have you can't
 take care of them forever, and then they'll realize what needs
 to
 happen in due time, or they will get sick of the status quo and
 want to change it.  And if people hold it against a decent blind
 person because they've met a person like that in the past, it's
 not worth it to try and make them feel any differently.  They
 will
 either come around in time or they
 won't.  Choice is the key word here.
 Everyone is free to think as they choose so long as it's not
 hurting anyone.  So, while it might temporarily sting a bit to
 lose
 out on a potential friendship due to someone's ignorance, as
 soon
 as you meet someone who's worth your time, you forget about that
 other person real quick

 On 5/26/11, Daniel Romero <djdan567 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I think the reason why this might go down is because of the view
 that we get from the public in general.  Most people who are
 sighted are not used to a blind person.  You have to understand
 that one blind person being seen is a huge thing.  They're now
 reliable for what a person thinks about blind people.  They are
 the ones setting an example.  So if you have a blind person who
 smells bad, rocks, pokes their eyes or just do not have the
 proper skills, the outside person will make an assumtion and say
 that all blind people are like that.  i'm not saying it's right
 for blind people to call out other blind people with a skills
 set
 that is lower then theirs, they're just calling them out because
 they are representing blind people.  It puts a bad label on us
 blind people who do take care of ourselves, have the skills to
 be
 independent and succeed.  like i said, i'm not saying it's right
 but I don't think us who do have the skills want to have a
 negative conotation.  Not all blind people poke their eyes,
 rock,
 hop, twitch,bump into everything, smell bad, do not clean their
 own clothes, or anything like that.  So to be part of a group
 that's going to display such a view that is negative to the
 public,
 we fall right behind that.  Am I making sense?

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