[nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others

Fri Jun 10 02:50:02 UTC 2011

Hi Kirt:

Yes--perhaps you're right.
Unfortunately I've met waay too many people who go on trying to shield fellow NFB members from the ACB,
and seeing as the tensions are still high in many regards,
I thought this might be a reason--not so much to raise any points but to stay out of any trouble.

And you're right, we have pretty much debated other issues to death so…

anyway, I'll go before I get called out by David again.

Jorge

On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:

> Jorge,
>  I disagree with you on the last point.  I think Dave was trying to
> keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming
> everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me
> wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other
> things.
>  I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB
> and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book
> People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us.  So, no, I
> don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB
> literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this
> NFB-sponsored public forum.  Do I agree with his decision?  With all
> cander, no.  But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the
> NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the
> positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB.  If anything, I think
> they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who
> they're dealing with in the political arena.
>  Respectfully,
> Kirt
> 
> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
>> 
>> Yet we encourage distributing it.
>> 
>> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
>> distributed for free would they?
>> 
>> 
>> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not good"
>> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>> 
>>> David,
>>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
>>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
>>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
>>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
>>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
>>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Kirt
>>> 
>>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> David:
>>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
>>>> 
>>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing
>>>> view
>>>> is he?
>>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
>>>> No, and I take that as harmless.
>>>> 
>>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by
>>>> future leaders anyway?
>>>> 
>>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
>>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
>>>> must
>>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we
>>>> will
>>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
>>>> aim--and
>>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles
>>>> of
>>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
>>>> 
>>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we
>>>> not
>>>> open to discussion on this?
>>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
>>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
>>>> hidden
>>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
>>>> 
>>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
>>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Jorge
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Chris:
>>>>> 
>>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate,
>>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a debating
>>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.  This
>>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the
>>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Andrews, List Owner
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
>>>>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
>>>>>> Although
>>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno,
>>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from
>>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr.
>>>>>> TenBroek and Dr.
>>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
>>>>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much?
>>>>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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