[nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 56, Issue 13

Fri Jun 10 18:00:27 UTC 2011

Dear National NABS,

I must firstly clear up a few things: 1. I was simply going off of what the
person at the hotel told me.  I don't think the last 4 numbers of the credit
card are needed, but the guy I talked to said it was.  2. Please, I beg you
to get a grip.  This is NOT a scam.  I'm seriously desperate for a room.  3.
Just because you had a bad experience last time, doesn't mean you will this
time.  I'm from Nebraska, a very hospitable, and welcoming state.  Finally,
I now have a room, thanks to an email I sent to my ala modern, Colorado
Center for the Blind.  So, there's no need to worry about it.  Thank you for
your time.

Rachael E. Vacanti
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:00 PM, <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: window eyes commands (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
>   2. Roommate (Rachael Vacanti)
>   3. Re: window eyes commands (Kirt Manwaring)
>   4. Re: window eyes commands (Carly Mihalakis)
>   5. Re: window eyes commands (Jorge Paez)
>   6. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez)
>   7. Re: window eyes commands (bookwormahb at earthlink.net)
>   8. Re: window eyes commands (Kirt Manwaring)
>   9. Re: window eyes commands (Jorge Paez)
>  10. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Kirt Manwaring)
>  11. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Carly Mihalakis)
>  12. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez)
>  13. Re: window eyes commands (Carly Mihalakis)
>  14. Re: window eyes commands (Ignasi Cambra)
>  15. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews)
>  16. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews)
>  17. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez)
>  18. Re: Roommate (Peter Donahue)
>  19. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Kirt Manwaring)
>  20. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Jorge Paez)
>  21. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Kirt Manwaring)
>  22. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (Serena Cucco)
>  23. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews)
>  24. Re: Security in ourselves, acceptance in others (David Andrews)
>  25. Re: window eyes commands (T. Joseph Carter)
>  26. Re: window eyes commands (T. Joseph Carter)
>  27. Re: Roommate (Diane)
>  28. Re: Roommate (Darian Smith)
>  29. Re: Roommate (Peter Donahue)
>  30. Re: window eyes commands (Kirt Manwaring)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:22:28 -0400
> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <3AD62BD071A54882B65814B489E9B5A0 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=response
>
> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
>
> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
>
> Chris
>
> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> www.campabilities.org.
>
> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> www.icanfoundation.info.
>
> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> to see you at the game!!!
>
> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> At least I can change it to elloquence.
>
> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> commands I mean.
> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
>
> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> reader thing.
>
> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> insert f7: links list.
> insert f5: headings list
> Insert f9: frames list
> H: headings
> C: combo box
> R: radio button
> B: button
> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> is
> Control insert tab.
>
> Thanks for any tips.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> sbaum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:44:38 -0600
> From: Rachael Vacanti <revacanti at gmail.com>
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimNQhJY0xtmRyQ4=6eB6GQpo7s-Vg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hey NABS Girls,
>
> If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know.
> Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along.  After all, who
> spends
> time in their room during national convention?  Certainly, I won't be.  All
> I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit
> card.  Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle
> Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd.  So,
> girls, let me know as soon as possible please.
>
> Rachael Vacanti
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 16:48:42 -0600
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimVWPhp1M-NO=sY-ap=Yo2yuY=whw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Ashley,
>  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
>
> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Nusbaum
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >
> > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> > you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> > www.campabilities.org.
> >
> > The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> > on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> > www.icanfoundation.info.
> >
> > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> > C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> > Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> > to see you at the game!!!
> >
> > --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> > Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> > At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >
> > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> > commands I mean.
> > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> > that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >
> > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> > reader thing.
> >
> > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> > you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> > insert f7: links list.
> > insert f5: headings list
> > Insert f9: frames list
> > H: headings
> > C: combo box
> > R: radio button
> > B: button
> > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> > is
> > Control insert tab.
> >
> > Thanks for any tips.
> > Ashley
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for nabs-l:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> > sbaum%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 15:59:50 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609155803.01c1c100 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Hi, I know whatcha mean about the Apple speech. I learned to type on
> a 2e in the early nineties and when i got my DecTalk Express in '95 I
> was shocked at how much better the quality was!
> for today,
> CarAt 03:48 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >Ashley,
> >   You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> >synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >
> >On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris Nusbaum
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> > >
> > > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> > > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> > > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> > > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> > > you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> > > www.campabilities.org.
> > >
> > > The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> > > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> > > on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> > > www.icanfoundation.info.
> > >
> > > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> > > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> > > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> > > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> > > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> > > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> > > C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> > > Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> > > to see you at the game!!!
> > >
> > > --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> > > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> > > Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> > > At least I can change it to elloquence.
> > >
> > > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> > > commands I mean.
> > > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> > > that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> > > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> > >
> > > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> > > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> > > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> > > reader thing.
> > >
> > > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> > > you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> > > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> > > insert f7: links list.
> > > insert f5: headings list
> > > Insert f9: frames list
> > > H: headings
> > > C: combo box
> > > R: radio button
> > > B: button
> > > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> > > is
> > > Control insert tab.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any tips.
> > > Ashley
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for nabs-l:
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> > > sbaum%40gmail.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:08:21 -0400
> From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <D2827943-2030-4AF5-BBD0-9977D4416921 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Do you mean Fred and the rest of them?
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
> > Ashley,
> >  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >
> > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chris Nusbaum
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>
> >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >> www.campabilities.org.
> >>
> >> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >> www.icanfoundation.info.
> >>
> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> >> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> >> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> >> to see you at the game!!!
> >>
> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> >> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> >> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >>
> >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> >> commands I mean.
> >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> >> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >>
> >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> >> reader thing.
> >>
> >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> >> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> >> insert f7: links list.
> >> insert f5: headings list
> >> Insert f9: frames list
> >> H: headings
> >> C: combo box
> >> R: radio button
> >> B: button
> >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> >> is
> >> Control insert tab.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any tips.
> >> Ashley
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> for nabs-l:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> >> sbaum%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:16:49 -0400
> From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <34F6E32D-0DAB-44AD-9ECC-48BBC12CD75C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> David:
> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
>
> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing
> view is he?
> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> No, and I take that as harmless.
>
> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by
> future leaders anyway?
>
> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so must
> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we will
> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our aim--and
> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles of
> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
>
> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we
> not open to discussion on this?
> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a hidden
> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
>
> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
>
>
> Jorge
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>
> > Chris:
> >
> > While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate,
> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a debating
> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.  This
> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the ACB,
> or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >
> > David Andrews, List Owner
> >
> >
> >
> > At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.  Although a
> lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno, please
> especially take time to read the President's Message column from Mitch
> Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr.  TenBroek
> and Dr.
> >> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much? Oh
> heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:56:17 -0400
> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <F6D37CF3E33D4E66A71491BA4F39BA91 at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
>
> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning the
> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to
> understand.
> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
>
> Ashley,
>  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
>
> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Nusbaum
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >
> > Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> > songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> > Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> > you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> > www.campabilities.org.
> >
> > The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> > on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> > www.icanfoundation.info.
> >
> > PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> > Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> > 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> > Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> > Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> > email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> > C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> > Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> > to see you at the game!!!
> >
> > --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> > Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> > Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> > At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >
> > So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> > commands I mean.
> > I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> > that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> > line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >
> > How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> > through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> > choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> > reader thing.
> >
> > I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> > you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> > Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> > insert f7: links list.
> > insert f5: headings list
> > Insert f9: frames list
> > H: headings
> > C: combo box
> > R: radio button
> > B: button
> > In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> > is
> > Control insert tab.
> >
> > Thanks for any tips.
> > Ashley
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for nabs-l:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> > sbaum%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:00:22 -0600
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimfy72Vrh_dQkr57OiWGKFt_Sx6jg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Jorge,
>  I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I
> much prefer Reed myself.  *smile*  Oh-and someone should give the
> voiceover lady a name.  I like her, too.
>
> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning
> the
> > computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to
> understand.
> > Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kirt Manwaring
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >
> > Ashley,
> >   You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> > synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >
> > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chris Nusbaum
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>
> >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >> www.campabilities.org.
> >>
> >> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >> www.icanfoundation.info.
> >>
> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> >> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> >> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> >> to see you at the game!!!
> >>
> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> >> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> >> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >>
> >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> >> commands I mean.
> >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> >> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >>
> >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> >> reader thing.
> >>
> >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> >> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> >> insert f7: links list.
> >> insert f5: headings list
> >> Insert f9: frames list
> >> H: headings
> >> C: combo box
> >> R: radio button
> >> B: button
> >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> >> is
> >> Control insert tab.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any tips.
> >> Ashley
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> for nabs-l:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> >> sbaum%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:12:17 -0400
> From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <4830D35D-DFAB-4C88-9F7A-E02EA8DBB68C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I think the voice Over lady is Samantha.
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
> > Jorge,
> >  I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I
> > much prefer Reed myself.  *smile*  Oh-and someone should give the
> > voiceover lady a name.  I like her, too.
> >
> > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first learning
> the
> >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to
> understand.
> >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Kirt Manwaring
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>
> >> Ashley,
> >>  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >>
> >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Chris Nusbaum
> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>
> >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >>>
> >>> Chris
> >>>
> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >>> www.campabilities.org.
> >>>
> >>> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >>> www.icanfoundation.info.
> >>>
> >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> >>> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> >>> to see you at the game!!!
> >>>
> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> >>> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> >>> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >>>
> >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> >>> commands I mean.
> >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> >>> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >>>
> >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> >>> reader thing.
> >>>
> >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> >>> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> >>> insert f7: links list.
> >>> insert f5: headings list
> >>> Insert f9: frames list
> >>> H: headings
> >>> C: combo box
> >>> R: radio button
> >>> B: button
> >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> >>> is
> >>> Control insert tab.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any tips.
> >>> Ashley
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>> for nabs-l:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> >>> sbaum%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 19:02:10 -0600
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimKLBiSF5rLOkF4=ysLiQ=7_nyvkg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> David,
>  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
>  Sincerely,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > David:
> > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >
> > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing
> view
> > is he?
> > Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> > No, and I take that as harmless.
> >
> > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by
> > future leaders anyway?
> >
> > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> must
> > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we
> will
> > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> aim--and
> > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles
> of
> > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >
> > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we
> not
> > open to discussion on this?
> > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> hidden
> > threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >
> > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> > but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >
> >
> > Jorge
> >
> >
> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >
> >> Chris:
> >>
> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate,
> >> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a debating
> >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.  This
> >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the
> >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >>
> >> David Andrews, List Owner
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> little
> >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
>  Although
> >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno,
> >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column from
> >>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr.
> >>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too much?
> >>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 18:21:46 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,    National Association of Blind Students
> mailing
>        list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609181927.01d5e920 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef
> between the consumer organizations.
> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here!
> Car:
> >David,
> >   I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> >the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> >issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> >slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> >circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> >terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >   Sincerely,
> >Kirt
> >
> >On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > David:
> > > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> > >
> > > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> > opposing view
> > > is he?
> > > Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> > > No, and I take that as harmless.
> > >
> > > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up
> by
> > > future leaders anyway?
> > >
> > > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> > > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> must
> > > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and
> > say we will
> > > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> aim--and
> > > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> principles of
> > > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> > >
> > > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and
> > are we not
> > > open to discussion on this?
> > > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> > > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> hidden
> > > threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> > >
> > > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> > > but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> > >
> > >
> > > Jorge
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> > >
> > >> Chris:
> > >>
> > >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> inappropriate,
> > >> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a debating
> > >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
>  This
> > >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> the
> > >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> > >>
> > >> David Andrews, List Owner
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> > >>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> little
> > >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> > >>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
>  Although
> > >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno,
> > >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> from
> > >>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr.
> > >>> TenBroek and Dr.
> > >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> > >>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> much?
> > >>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> nabs-l:
> > >>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > nabs-l:
> > >
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:26:46 -0400
> From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <94D7D8BC-C205-4ED9-A2C5-15ADD260E88E at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
>
> Yet we encourage distributing it.
>
> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
> distributed for free would they?
>
>
> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not good"
> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
> > David,
> >  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> > the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> > issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> > slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> > circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> > terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >  Sincerely,
> > Kirt
> >
> > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> David:
> >> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >>
> >> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing
> view
> >> is he?
> >> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >> No, and I take that as harmless.
> >>
> >> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up by
> >> future leaders anyway?
> >>
> >> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> must
> >> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we
> will
> >> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> aim--and
> >> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our principles
> of
> >> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >>
> >> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are we
> not
> >> open to discussion on this?
> >> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> hidden
> >> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >>
> >> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >>
> >>
> >> Jorge
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >>
> >>> Chris:
> >>>
> >>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is inappropriate,
> >>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a debating
> >>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
>  This
> >>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of the
> >>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >>>
> >>> David Andrews, List Owner
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> little
> >>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
>  Although
> >>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno,
> >>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> from
> >>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr.
> >>>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> much?
> >>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 18:33:29 -0700
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,    National Association of Blind Students
> mailing
>        list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20110609182652.01d59c78 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Samantha, sounds right.
> Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha
> and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who
> has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the
> standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I  prefer to listen
> with  perfect Paul!
> Car:
> >I think the voice Over lady is Samantha.
> >
> >
> >On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >
> > > Jorge,
> > >  I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I
> > > much prefer Reed myself.  *smile*  Oh-and someone should give the
> > > voiceover lady a name.  I like her, too.
> > >
> > > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first
> > learning the
> > >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to
> > understand.
> > >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence.
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Kirt Manwaring
> > >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM
> > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> > >>
> > >> Ashley,
> > >>  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> > >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> > >>
> > >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > >>> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Chris Nusbaum
> > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> > >>>
> > >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> > >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> > >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>>
> > >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> > >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> > >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> > >>> www.campabilities.org.
> > >>>
> > >>> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> > >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> > >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> > >>> www.icanfoundation.info.
> > >>>
> > >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> > >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> > >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> > >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> > >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> > >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> > >>> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> > >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> > >>> to see you at the game!!!
> > >>>
> > >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> > >>> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> > >>> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> > >>>
> > >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> > >>> commands I mean.
> > >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> > >>> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> > >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> > >>>
> > >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> > >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> > >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> > >>> reader thing.
> > >>>
> > >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> > >>> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> > >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> > >>> insert f7: links list.
> > >>> insert f5: headings list
> > >>> Insert f9: frames list
> > >>> H: headings
> > >>> C: combo box
> > >>> R: radio button
> > >>> B: button
> > >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> > >>> is
> > >>> Control insert tab.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks for any tips.
> > >>> Ashley
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> nabs-l mailing list
> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>> for nabs-l:
> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> > >>> sbaum%40gmail.com
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> nabs-l mailing list
> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>> nabs-l:
> > >>>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> nabs-l mailing list
> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>> nabs-l:
> > >>>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> nabs-l:
> > >>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> nabs-l:
> > >>
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for nabs-l:
> > >
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:37:39 -0400
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <26FBC135-29DD-41D2-8712-6DAAA16F7375 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Yes indeed, it is Samantha. The voices on the iPhone are Nuance voices.
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:33 PM, Carly Mihalakis wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Samantha, sounds right.
> > Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha and
> other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who has always
> been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the standalone
> OpenBook machine. I use K now. I  prefer to listen with  perfect Paul!
> > Car:
> >> I think the voice Over lady is Samantha.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >>
> >> > Jorge,
> >> >  I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I
> >> > much prefer Reed myself.  *smile*  Oh-and someone should give the
> >> > voiceover lady a name.  I like her, too.
> >> >
> >> > On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >> >> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first
> learning the
> >> >> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to
> understand.
> >> >> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence.
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Kirt Manwaring
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM
> >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >> >>
> >> >> Ashley,
> >> >>  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> >> >> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >> >>
> >> >> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >> >>> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: Chris Nusbaum
> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> >> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> >> >>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> >> >>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Chris
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >> >>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >> >>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >> >>> www.campabilities.org.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >> >>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >> >>> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >> >>> www.icanfoundation.info.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> >> >>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> >> >>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> >> >>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> >> >>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> >> >>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> >> >>> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> >> >>> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> >> >>> to see you at the game!!!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> >> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> >> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi all,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> >> >>> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> >> >>> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> >> >>> commands I mean.
> >> >>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> >> >>> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> >> >>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> >> >>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> >> >>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> >> >>> reader thing.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> >> >>> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> >> >>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> >> >>> insert f7: links list.
> >> >>> insert f5: headings list
> >> >>> Insert f9: frames list
> >> >>> H: headings
> >> >>> C: combo box
> >> >>> R: radio button
> >> >>> B: button
> >> >>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> >> >>> is
> >> >>> Control insert tab.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks for any tips.
> >> >>> Ashley
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> >>> for nabs-l:
> >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> >> >>> sbaum%40gmail.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> >> >>> nabs-l:
> >> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 21:30:48 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <auto-000016242415 at mailfront3.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I have an open mind and I don't need you lecturing to me.  My point
> was that such a discussion isn't the purpose of this list.
>
> Dave
>
> At 06:16 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >David:
> >With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >
> >After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> >opposing view is he?
> >Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >No, and I take that as harmless.
> >
> >Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought
> >up by future leaders anyway?
> >
> >Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves,
> >so must our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy
> >and say we will follow it until we die for if the target changes,
> >then so must our aim--and we should be open to anything and consider
> >all as long as our principles of blind independence and first class
> >citizenship are not at risk.
> >
> >You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and
> >are we not open to discussion on this?
> >Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> >hidden threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >
> >I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >
> >
> >Jorge
> >
> >
> >On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >
> > > Chris:
> > >
> > > While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> > inappropriate, and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This
> > is not a debating society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute
> > the Braille Forum.  This list is for NABS and blind students, not
> > to discuss the founding of the ACB, or debate how it is different from
> the NFB.
> > >
> > > David Andrews, List Owner
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> > >> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone
> > a little and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille
> > Forum (ACB's magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's
> > Braille Forum.  Although a lot of it has to do with the lagistics
> > of their convention in Reno, please especially take time to read
> > the President's Message column from Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see
> > there what he says about the NFB and Dr.  TenBroek and Dr.
> > >> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the
> > United States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the
> > pot too much? Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 21:33:49 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <auto-000016242530 at mailfront3.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics
> for which it was intended.  And ... the history was that people broke
> away from the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they
> disagreed with the way things were done by us.
>
> Dave
>
> At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
>
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef
> >between the consumer organizations.
> >There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here!
> >Car:
> >>David,
> >>   I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> >>the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> >>issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> >>slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> >>circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> >>terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >>   Sincerely,
> >>Kirt
> >>
> >>On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > David:
> >> > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >> >
> >> > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> >> opposing view
> >> > is he?
> >> > Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >> > No, and I take that as harmless.
> >> >
> >> > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up
> by
> >> > future leaders anyway?
> >> >
> >> > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >> > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> must
> >> > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and
> >> say we will
> >> > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must
> >> our aim--and
> >> > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> >> principles of
> >> > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >> >
> >> > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas,
> >> and are we not
> >> > open to discussion on this?
> >> > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >> > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there
> >> is a hidden
> >> > threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >> >
> >> > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >> > but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Jorge
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Chris:
> >> >>
> >> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> inappropriate,
> >> >> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a
> debating
> >> >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
>  This
> >> >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> the
> >> >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >> >>
> >> >> David Andrews, List Owner
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >> >>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort
> >> zone a little
> >> >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >> >>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
>  Although
> >> >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in
> Reno,
> >> >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> from
> >> >>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and
> Dr.
> >> >>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >> >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >> >>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> much?
> >> >>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:36:55 -0400
> From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <6ADD8FA5-B59B-4B17-B07F-732EBF980EF0 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > Car:
> Read the ACB website under "about us" and "history" and some NFB documents
> (i forget where I found them), they describe the conflict quite in detail.
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:33 PM, David Andrews wrote:
>
> > I am not trying to sensor anything just keep each list on the topics for
> which it was intended.  And ... the history was that people broke away from
> the NFB in the early 1960's and formed the ACB because they disagreed with
> the way things were done by us.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > At 08:21 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> We've often wondered a same thing what is the history of such a beef
> between the consumer organizations.
> >> There, in my opinion, ought not be censorship, here!
> >> Car:
> >>> David,
> >>>  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >>>  Sincerely,
> >>> Kirt
> >>>
> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > David:
> >>> > With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >>> >
> >>> > After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> opposing view
> >>> > is he?
> >>> > Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >>> > No, and I take that as harmless.
> >>> >
> >>> > Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up
> by
> >>> > future leaders anyway?
> >>> >
> >>> > Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >>> > organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> must
> >>> > our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say
> we will
> >>> > follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> aim--and
> >>> > we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> principles of
> >>> > blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >>> >
> >>> > You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are
> we not
> >>> > open to discussion on this?
> >>> > Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >>> > are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> hidden
> >>> > threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >>> >
> >>> > I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >>> > but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Jorge
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Chris:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> inappropriate,
> >>> >> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a
> debating
> >>> >> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
>  This
> >>> >> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> the
> >>> >> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> David Andrews, List Owner
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >>> >>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> little
> >>> >>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >>> >>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
>  Although
> >>> >>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in
> Reno,
> >>> >>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> from
> >>> >>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and
> Dr.
> >>> >>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >>> >>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >>> >>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> much?
> >>> >>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:39:56 -0500
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mary Donahue <braille at satx.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
> Message-ID: <002f01cc2717$afe08600$82070b43 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello Rachael and everyone,
>
>    Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room
> with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001 and
> she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay
> with
> us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends
> those red flags flying high in our minds!
>
>    I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national
> convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes
> treat
> them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay
> with
> them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with
> them at 1:30 in the morning!
>
>    This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went very
> wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't
> want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year
> due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping everyone
> has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rachael Vacanti" <revacanti at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate
>
>
> Hey NABS Girls,
>
> If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know.
> Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along.  After all, who
> spends
> time in their room during national convention?  Certainly, I won't be.  All
> I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit
> card.  Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle
> Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd.  So,
> girls, let me know as soon as possible please.
>
> Rachael Vacanti
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 20:44:47 -0600
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=NmiW144yA9pbPFNTb25gHdj944A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Jorge,
>  I disagree with you on the last point.  I think Dave was trying to
> keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming
> everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me
> wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other
> things.
>  I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB
> and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book
> People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us.  So, no, I
> don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB
> literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this
> NFB-sponsored public forum.  Do I agree with his decision?  With all
> cander, no.  But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the
> NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the
> positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB.  If anything, I think
> they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who
> they're dealing with in the political arena.
>  Respectfully,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
> >
> > Yet we encourage distributing it.
> >
> > I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
> > distributed for free would they?
> >
> >
> > Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not
> good"
> > for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >
> >> David,
> >>  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> >> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> >> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> >> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> >> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> >> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >>  Sincerely,
> >> Kirt
> >>
> >> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> David:
> >>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >>>
> >>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an opposing
> >>> view
> >>> is he?
> >>> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >>> No, and I take that as harmless.
> >>>
> >>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up
> by
> >>> future leaders anyway?
> >>>
> >>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> >>> must
> >>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say we
> >>> will
> >>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> >>> aim--and
> >>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> principles
> >>> of
> >>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >>>
> >>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are
> we
> >>> not
> >>> open to discussion on this?
> >>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> >>> hidden
> >>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >>>
> >>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jorge
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Chris:
> >>>>
> >>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> inappropriate,
> >>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a debating
> >>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
>  This
> >>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> the
> >>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >>>>
> >>>> David Andrews, List Owner
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >>>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> >>>>> little
> >>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >>>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
> >>>>> Although
> >>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in Reno,
> >>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> from
> >>>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and Dr.
> >>>>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >>>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> much?
> >>>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:50:02 -0400
> From: Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <175DDA44-838F-41F7-A9A2-934DFEB21819 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hi Kirt:
>
> Yes--perhaps you're right.
> Unfortunately I've met waay too many people who go on trying to shield
> fellow NFB members from the ACB,
> and seeing as the tensions are still high in many regards,
> I thought this might be a reason--not so much to raise any points but to
> stay out of any trouble.
>
> And you're right, we have pretty much debated other issues to death so?
>
> anyway, I'll go before I get called out by David again.
>
> Jorge
>
>
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
> > Jorge,
> >  I disagree with you on the last point.  I think Dave was trying to
> > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming
> > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me
> > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other
> > things.
> >  I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB
> > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book
> > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us.  So, no, I
> > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB
> > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this
> > NFB-sponsored public forum.  Do I agree with his decision?  With all
> > cander, no.  But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the
> > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the
> > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB.  If anything, I think
> > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who
> > they're dealing with in the political arena.
> >  Respectfully,
> > Kirt
> >
> > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
> >>
> >> Yet we encourage distributing it.
> >>
> >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
> >> distributed for free would they?
> >>
> >>
> >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not
> good"
> >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >>
> >>> David,
> >>> I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>> Kirt
> >>>
> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> David:
> >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >>>>
> >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> opposing
> >>>> view
> >>>> is he?
> >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >>>> No, and I take that as harmless.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up
> by
> >>>> future leaders anyway?
> >>>>
> >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> >>>> must
> >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say
> we
> >>>> will
> >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> >>>> aim--and
> >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> principles
> >>>> of
> >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >>>>
> >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are
> we
> >>>> not
> >>>> open to discussion on this?
> >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> >>>> hidden
> >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jorge
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Chris:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> inappropriate,
> >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a
> debating
> >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
>  This
> >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> the
> >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >>>>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> >>>>>> little
> >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >>>>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
> >>>>>> Although
> >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in
> Reno,
> >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> from
> >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and
> Dr.
> >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >>>>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> much?
> >>>>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:00:02 -0600
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikYxhWjjU-Dr6H+Tv_HC0RfzLY=hQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Dave,
>  I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on
> this list.  I certainly respect your decision.  However, I do have one
> concern.
>  Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the
> purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students.
>  For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the
> two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is
> absolutely important, critical even.  Blind students, many of whom
> having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why
> there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two
> organizations from always working together.  Certainly I didn't
> understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I
> studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest
> factors that kept me out of the Federation.  I thought "why can't
> these people just work together and get along?"  Had I been exposed to
> this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would
> have been more willing to network with other blind students in the
> Federation at a younger age.  My perception was honestly that there
> were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but
> bickering over silly past history.  Once I was exposed to the "civil
> war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the
> two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing.
>  So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to
> blind students.  We need to know our history, it helps us decide what
> we're going to do now.  So I ask you, with civility and an open mind,
> why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students?
> What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've
> debated in the past?  Certainly it matters to us blind students and it
> matters to us a great deal.  I honestly want to know what makes this
> question not fit to be discussed here.
>  Respectfully,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Jorge,
> >   I disagree with you on the last point.  I think Dave was trying to
> > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming
> > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me
> > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other
> > things.
> >   I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB
> > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book
> > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us.  So, no, I
> > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB
> > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this
> > NFB-sponsored public forum.  Do I agree with his decision?  With all
> > cander, no.  But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the
> > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the
> > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB.  If anything, I think
> > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who
> > they're dealing with in the political arena.
> >   Respectfully,
> > Kirt
> >
> > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
> >>
> >> Yet we encourage distributing it.
> >>
> >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
> >> distributed for free would they?
> >>
> >>
> >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not
> >> good"
> >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >>
> >>> David,
> >>>  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >>>  Sincerely,
> >>> Kirt
> >>>
> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> David:
> >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >>>>
> >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> opposing
> >>>> view
> >>>> is he?
> >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >>>> No, and I take that as harmless.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up
> >>>> by
> >>>> future leaders anyway?
> >>>>
> >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> >>>> must
> >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say
> we
> >>>> will
> >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> >>>> aim--and
> >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> >>>> principles
> >>>> of
> >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >>>>
> >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are
> >>>> we
> >>>> not
> >>>> open to discussion on this?
> >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> >>>> hidden
> >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jorge
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Chris:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> >>>>> inappropriate,
> >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a
> debating
> >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
> >>>>> This
> >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >>>>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> >>>>>> little
> >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >>>>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
> >>>>>> Although
> >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in
> Reno,
> >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> >>>>>> from
> >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and
> Dr.
> >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >>>>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> >>>>>> much?
> >>>>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:31:05 -0400
> From: "Serena Cucco" <serena.c.cucco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <9DB7C35B04DA455A976F3BDBF6D912D8 at SerenaPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> I don't think David Andrews was trying to keep us from talking about the
> history between the organizations.  I think he didn't approve of the
> distribution of the ACB's magazine on this list, which is pretty much for
> the NFB, although we don't exclude ACB students.  I think Dave's objectin
> is
> simply cuz he still considers the ACB our enemy.  Similar to countries at
> war.  Yeah, the civil war is over, but the leadership cannot forget it.
> It's possible he was also concerned that Chris was trying to convert people
> into the ACB by distributing the magazine on this list.  Knowing Chris a
> little from the list, I doubt this was his intention, although I can see
> why
> David might've thought so.
>
> Serena
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Kirt Manwaring
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:00 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
>
> Dave,
>  I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on
> this list.  I certainly respect your decision.  However, I do have one
> concern.
>  Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the
> purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students.
>  For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the
> two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is
> absolutely important, critical even.  Blind students, many of whom
> having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why
> there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two
> organizations from always working together.  Certainly I didn't
> understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I
> studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest
> factors that kept me out of the Federation.  I thought "why can't
> these people just work together and get along?"  Had I been exposed to
> this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would
> have been more willing to network with other blind students in the
> Federation at a younger age.  My perception was honestly that there
> were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but
> bickering over silly past history.  Once I was exposed to the "civil
> war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the
> two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing.
>  So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to
> blind students.  We need to know our history, it helps us decide what
> we're going to do now.  So I ask you, with civility and an open mind,
> why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students?
> What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've
> debated in the past?  Certainly it matters to us blind students and it
> matters to us a great deal.  I honestly want to know what makes this
> question not fit to be discussed here.
>  Respectfully,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Jorge,
> >   I disagree with you on the last point.  I think Dave was trying to
> > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming
> > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me
> > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other
> > things.
> >   I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB
> > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book
> > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us.  So, no, I
> > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB
> > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this
> > NFB-sponsored public forum.  Do I agree with his decision?  With all
> > cander, no.  But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the
> > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the
> > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB.  If anything, I think
> > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who
> > they're dealing with in the political arena.
> >   Respectfully,
> > Kirt
> >
> > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
> >>
> >> Yet we encourage distributing it.
> >>
> >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
> >> distributed for free would they?
> >>
> >>
> >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not
> >> good"
> >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >>
> >>> David,
> >>>  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> >>>  Sincerely,
> >>> Kirt
> >>>
> >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> David:
> >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> >>>>
> >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> opposing
> >>>> view
> >>>> is he?
> >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> >>>> No, and I take that as harmless.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought up
> >>>> by
> >>>> future leaders anyway?
> >>>>
> >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves, so
> >>>> must
> >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say
> we
> >>>> will
> >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> >>>> aim--and
> >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> >>>> principles
> >>>> of
> >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> >>>>
> >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and are
> >>>> we
> >>>> not
> >>>> open to discussion on this?
> >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> >>>> hidden
> >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Jorge
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Chris:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> >>>>> inappropriate,
> >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a
> debating
> >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
> >>>>> This
> >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> >>>>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> >>>>>> little
> >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> >>>>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
> >>>>>> Although
> >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in
> Reno,
> >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> >>>>>> from
> >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and
> Dr.
> >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr.
> >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> >>>>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> >>>>>> much?
> >>>>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae
> z%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma
> il.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepae
> z%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gma
> il.com
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serena.c.cucco%40gma
> il.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:38:02 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <auto-000015602302 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I will say two things, and then ask everybody to just move
> on.  Frankly what I objected the most was attaching three versions of
> the Braille Forum to a message.  It just isn't necessary for the
> discussion of one article.  and ... in general I think I run things
> with a pretty light hand -- the other endless debates prove that, but
> when I do say something why is it that everybody feels compelled to
> argue with me.?
>
> Dave
>
>
> >Dave,
> >   I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on
> >this list.  I certainly respect your decision.  However, I do have one
> >concern.
> >   Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the
> >purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students.
> >  For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the
> >two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is
> >absolutely important, critical even.  Blind students, many of whom
> >having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why
> >there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two
> >organizations from always working together.  Certainly I didn't
> >understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I
> >studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest
> >factors that kept me out of the Federation.  I thought "why can't
> >these people just work together and get along?"  Had I been exposed to
> >this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would
> >have been more willing to network with other blind students in the
> >Federation at a younger age.  My perception was honestly that there
> >were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but
> >bickering over silly past history.  Once I was exposed to the "civil
> >war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the
> >two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing.
> >   So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to
> >blind students.  We need to know our history, it helps us decide what
> >we're going to do now.  So I ask you, with civility and an open mind,
> >why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students?
> >What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've
> >debated in the past?  Certainly it matters to us blind students and it
> >matters to us a great deal.  I honestly want to know what makes this
> >question not fit to be discussed here.
> >   Respectfully,
> >Kirt
> >
> >On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Jorge,
> > >   I disagree with you on the last point.  I think Dave was trying to
> > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming
> > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me
> > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other
> > > things.
> > >   I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB
> > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book
> > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us.  So, no, I
> > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB
> > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this
> > > NFB-sponsored public forum.  Do I agree with his decision?  With all
> > > cander, no.  But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the
> > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the
> > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB.  If anything, I think
> > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who
> > > they're dealing with in the political arena.
> > >   Respectfully,
> > > Kirt
> > >
> > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
> > >>
> > >> Yet we encourage distributing it.
> > >>
> > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
> > >> distributed for free would they?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not
> > >> good"
> > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> David,
> > >>>  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> > >>>  Sincerely,
> > >>> Kirt
> > >>>
> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> David:
> > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> opposing
> > >>>> view
> > >>>> is he?
> > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought
> up
> > >>>> by
> > >>>> future leaders anyway?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves,
> so
> > >>>> must
> > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say
> we
> > >>>> will
> > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> > >>>> aim--and
> > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> > >>>> principles
> > >>>> of
> > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and
> are
> > >>>> we
> > >>>> not
> > >>>> open to discussion on this?
> > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> > >>>> hidden
> > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jorge
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Chris:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> > >>>>> inappropriate,
> > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a
> debating
> > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
> > >>>>> This
> > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> > >>>>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> > >>>>>> little
> > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> > >>>>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
> > >>>>>> Although
> > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in
> Reno,
> > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> > >>>>>> from
> > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and
> Dr.
> > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr.
> > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> > >>>>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> > >>>>>> much?
> > >>>>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:45:59 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> Message-ID: <auto-000015602629 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> I am flattered that you consider me to be a leader -- but you
> shouldn't attribute motives to me that may or may not be true.  I do
> not consider the ACB to be the enemy, I don't always agree with them,
> and I am not about to join.   they probably keep us honest and  we do
> the same for them
>
> Dave
>
>
> >I don't think David Andrews was trying to keep us from talking about the
> >history between the organizations.  I think he didn't approve of the
> >distribution of the ACB's magazine on this list, which is pretty much for
> >the NFB, although we don't exclude ACB students.  I think Dave's objectin
> is
> >simply cuz he still considers the ACB our enemy.  Similar to countries at
> >war.  Yeah, the civil war is over, but the leadership cannot forget it.
> >It's possible he was also concerned that Chris was trying to convert
> people
> >into the ACB by distributing the magazine on this list.  Knowing Chris a
> >little from the list, I doubt this was his intention, although I can see
> why
> >David might've thought so.
> >
> >Serena
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> >Of Kirt Manwaring
> >Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:00 PM
> >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Security in ourselves, acceptance in others
> >
> >Dave,
> >   I know you have the final say on what does and does not appear on
> >this list.  I certainly respect your decision.  However, I do have one
> >concern.
> >   Certainly correct me if I'm wrong but, as I understand it, the
> >purpose of this list is to discuss matters relevant to blind students.
> >  For me as a blind student, knowing the history and background of the
> >two major consumer organizations that represent blind people is
> >absolutely important, critical even.  Blind students, many of whom
> >having little or no exposure to either us or the Council, wonder why
> >there are such deep-seeded philosophical differences that keep our two
> >organizations from always working together.  Certainly I didn't
> >understand the huge differences between the NFB and ACB until I
> >studied their histories at length, and it was one of the biggest
> >factors that kept me out of the Federation.  I thought "why can't
> >these people just work together and get along?"  Had I been exposed to
> >this history earlier in my academic career, it's fair to say I would
> >have been more willing to network with other blind students in the
> >Federation at a younger age.  My perception was honestly that there
> >were two organizations, basically working for the same thing but
> >bickering over silly past history.  Once I was exposed to the "civil
> >war", and what really happened, I was more able to understand why the
> >two groups are not the same, and don't aim for exactly the same thing.
> >   So, all I'm trying to say is this issue is absolutely germane to
> >blind students.  We need to know our history, it helps us decide what
> >we're going to do now.  So I ask you, with civility and an open mind,
> >why this question is not appropriate for a list of blind students?
> >What makes this issue any different from the countless others we've
> >debated in the past?  Certainly it matters to us blind students and it
> >matters to us a great deal.  I honestly want to know what makes this
> >question not fit to be discussed here.
> >   Respectfully,
> >Kirt
> >
> >On 6/9/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Jorge,
> > >   I disagree with you on the last point.  I think Dave was trying to
> > > keep the debate which doubtless would have ensued from spamming
> > > everyone's inboxes. Although, now that I think about it, that makes me
> > > wonder why we've been free to debate ad noseum before about other
> > > things.
> > >   I've heard people in NFB leadership encourage the study of both NFB
> > > and ACB philosophy and history, some have even suggested the book
> > > People of Vision, on this list, as reading material for us.  So, no, I
> > > don't think they're trying to shelter us or keep us from reading ACB
> > > literature on our own time, I think Dave's trying to keep it from this
> > > NFB-sponsored public forum.  Do I agree with his decision?  With all
> > > cander, no.  But I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the
> > > NFB leadership is actively trying to keep us from studying the
> > > positions and dynamic changing views of the ACB.  If anything, I think
> > > they want future leaders to be as informed as possible about who
> > > they're dealing with in the political arena.
> > >   Respectfully,
> > > Kirt
> > >
> > > On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> And--is not the NFB Braille Monitor a copyrighted property?
> > >>
> > >> Yet we encourage distributing it.
> > >>
> > >> I'm sure neither the NFB or ACB would have a problem with either being
> > >> distributed for free would they?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Or, and I say this with respect to everyone involved, is it just "not
> > >> good"
> > >> for the leadership if we hear the ACB's side?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> David,
> > >>>  I do understand the Braille Forum is a copyrighted publication of
> > >>> the American Council of the Blind, so there might be legal/ethical
> > >>> issues with distributing it outside official ACB channels.  But I am
> > >>> slightly curious (and I say this with the utmost respect), would
> > >>> circulating an issue of the braille Monitor  describing the split in
> > >>> terms favorable to the Federation be "not appropriate for this list?"
> > >>>  Sincerely,
> > >>> Kirt
> > >>>
> > >>> On 6/9/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> David:
> > >>>> With all due respect, can we not have an open mind?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> After all: Chris isn't doing any obvious harm by presenting an
> opposing
> > >>>> view
> > >>>> is he?
> > >>>> Is he telling us to join the ACB?
> > >>>> No, and I take that as harmless.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Why silence what could possibly be a question that will be brought
> up
> > >>>> by
> > >>>> future leaders anyway?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sooner or later we'll have to debate not the marrits or not of the
> > >>>> organization, but what we stand fore because as the world evolves,
> so
> > >>>> must
> > >>>> our stance on issues--we can never stand solid by one policy and say
> we
> > >>>> will
> > >>>> follow it until we die for if the target changes, then so must our
> > >>>> aim--and
> > >>>> we should be open to anything and consider all as long as our
> > >>>> principles
> > >>>> of
> > >>>> blind independence and first class citizenship are not at risk.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You realize its not the ACB that you oppose, its their ideas, and
> are
> > >>>> we
> > >>>> not
> > >>>> open to discussion on this?
> > >>>> Just because we talk doesn't mean we do,
> > >>>> are you by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that there is a
> > >>>> hidden
> > >>>> threat in reading a politically contrary paper?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I agree--if Chris were to do it every month I would see why,
> > >>>> but just once won't hurt anyone will it?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jorge
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:42 PM, David Andrews wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Chris:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> While what you are trying to do is "well meaning," it is
> > >>>>> inappropriate,
> > >>>>> and not in step with the purpose of this list.  This is not a
> debating
> > >>>>> society, and nor are we a vehicle to distribute the Braille Forum.
> > >>>>> This
> > >>>>> list is for NABS and blind students, not to discuss the founding of
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>> ACB, or debate how it is different from the NFB.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> David Andrews, List Owner
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> At 02:55 PM 6/9/2011, you wrote:
> > >>>>>> Hmm...  that's interesting.  Well, I went out of my comfort zone a
> > >>>>>> little
> > >>>>>> and signed up to get both the Monitor and the Braille Forum (ACB's
> > >>>>>> magazine) by email.  I will attach this month's Braille Forum.
> > >>>>>> Although
> > >>>>>> a lot of it has to do with the lagistics of their convention in
> Reno,
> > >>>>>> please especially take time to read the President's Message column
> > >>>>>> from
> > >>>>>> Mitch Pomerantz.  You'll see there what he says about the NFB and
> Dr.
> > >>>>>> TenBroek and Dr.
> > >>>>>> Jernigan, while comparing the ACB's founding to that of the United
> > >>>>>> States.  What do you all think of this? Am I stirring the pot too
> > >>>>>> much?
> > >>>>>> Oh heck...  another little debate won't hurt.  * Smile!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:19:18 -0700
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <20110610061917.GI21333 at yumi.bluecherry.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> The ones from the System 7 era?  That are still in Mac OS X 10.7
> coming out next month for old times' sake?  ;)
>
> Besides Alex which has had some additional tuning, 10.7 has the
> option of three Nuance voices?Samantha, Tom, and Jill.  There are
> also a collection of international voices.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 04:48:42PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >Ashley,
> >  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> >synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >
> >On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chris Nusbaum
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>
> >> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> >> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> >> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >> www.campabilities.org.
> >>
> >> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >> www.icanfoundation.info.
> >>
> >> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> >> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> >> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> >> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> >> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> >> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> >> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> >> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> >> to see you at the game!!!
> >>
> >> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> >> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> >> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> >> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >>
> >> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> >> commands I mean.
> >> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> >> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> >> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >>
> >> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> >> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> >> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> >> reader thing.
> >>
> >> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> >> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> >> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> >> insert f7: links list.
> >> insert f5: headings list
> >> Insert f9: frames list
> >> H: headings
> >> C: combo box
> >> R: radio button
> >> B: button
> >> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> >> is
> >> Control insert tab.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any tips.
> >> Ashley
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> for nabs-l:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> >> sbaum%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 23:21:50 -0700
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <20110610062149.GJ21333 at yumi.bluecherry.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream.  She
> still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile
> version of Tom.
>
> I do prefer full version of Samantha, though.
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote:
> >
> >
> >Samantha, sounds right.
> >Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha
> >and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who
> >has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the
> >standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I  prefer to listen with
> >perfect Paul!
> >Car:
> >>I think the voice Over lady is Samantha.
> >>
> >>
> >>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jorge,
> >>>  I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I
> >>> much prefer Reed myself.  *smile*  Oh-and someone should give the
> >>> voiceover lady a name.  I like her, too.
> >>>
> >>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first
> >>learning the
> >>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to
> >>understand.
> >>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Kirt Manwaring
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM
> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>>
> >>>> Ashley,
> >>>>  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> >>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >>>>
> >>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> >>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> >>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >>>>> www.campabilities.org.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >>>>> www.icanfoundation.info.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> >>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> >>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> >>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> >>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> >>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> >>>>> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> >>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> >>>>> to see you at the game!!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> >>>>> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> >>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> >>>>> commands I mean.
> >>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> >>>>> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> >>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> >>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> >>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> >>>>> reader thing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> >>>>> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> >>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> >>>>> insert f7: links list.
> >>>>> insert f5: headings list
> >>>>> Insert f9: frames list
> >>>>> H: headings
> >>>>> C: combo box
> >>>>> R: radio button
> >>>>> B: button
> >>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> Control insert tab.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for any tips.
> >>>>> Ashley
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>> for nabs-l:
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> >>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>for nabs-l:
> >>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>nabs-l mailing list
> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:16:10 -0600
> From: "Diane" <dianefilipe at peoplepc.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
> Message-ID: <A7C3525AE9CB43EAAC7884E128F347C2 at DianePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>        reply-type=original
>
> I also was questioning this Peter.
> Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed?
> If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed...
> D
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Mary Donahue" <braille at satx.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
>
>
> > Hello Rachael and everyone,
> >
> >    Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room
> > with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001
> > and
> > she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay
> > with
> > us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends
> > those red flags flying high in our minds!
> >
> >    I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national
> > convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes
> > treat
> > them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay
> > with
> > them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with
> > them at 1:30 in the morning!
> >
> >    This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went
> very
> > wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't
> > want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year
> > due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping
> everyone
> > has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin!
> >
> > Peter Donahue
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rachael Vacanti" <revacanti at gmail.com>
> > To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate
> >
> >
> > Hey NABS Girls,
> >
> > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know.
> > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along.  After all, who
> > spends
> > time in their room during national convention?  Certainly, I won't be.
> > All
> > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit
> > card.  Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle
> > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd.  So,
> > girls, let me know as soon as possible please.
> >
> > Rachael Vacanti
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:37:04 -0700
> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinTacEXJkksGBk-HKi-Z5WE-bYP=g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Possibly what the  individual she spoke with at the hotel told her.
>  at any rate, I hope  this person finds a roomate, I would hate to see
> someone not be able to  benifit from the admosphere, activity, and
> energy that is  our national conventionn  - that's what counts here.
>  Darian
>
>
> On 6/10/11, Diane <dianefilipe at peoplepc.com> wrote:
> > I also was questioning this Peter.
> > Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed?
> > If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed...
> > D
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: "Mary Donahue" <braille at satx.rr.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
> >
> >
> >> Hello Rachael and everyone,
> >>
> >>    Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room
> >> with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001
> >> and
> >> she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay
> >> with
> >> us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends
> >> those red flags flying high in our minds!
> >>
> >>    I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national
> >> convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes
> >> treat
> >> them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay
> >> with
> >> them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle
> with
> >> them at 1:30 in the morning!
> >>
> >>    This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went
> very
> >> wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't
> >> want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that
> year
> >> due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping
> everyone
> >> has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin!
> >>
> >> Peter Donahue
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Rachael Vacanti" <revacanti at gmail.com>
> >> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM
> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey NABS Girls,
> >>
> >> If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know.
> >> Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along.  After all, who
> >> spends
> >> time in their room during national convention?  Certainly, I won't be.
> >> All
> >> I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit
> >> card.  Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle
> >> Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd.  So,
> >> girls, let me know as soon as possible please.
> >>
> >> Rachael Vacanti
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
>
> ?My secret?? See it, and stay focused on it.?
>
> ? Shaquille O'Neal
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:20:49 -0500
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mary Donahue <braille at satx.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
> Message-ID: <003101cc278a$5c758ec0$82070b43 at yourfsyly0jtwn>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello Dianne and everyone,
>
>    I didn't catch the bit about the confirmation and CC numbers when I read
> her message yesterday. Her plea for a room in the Shingle Creek has all the
> makings of a scam and definitely has the red flags flying! No one needs to
> be taken advantage of or scammed in this way. All the best.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Diane" <dianefilipe at peoplepc.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
>
>
> I also was questioning this Peter.
> Why are the last 4 digits of a credit card number needed?
> If I say Jane Doe can stay with me, that's that, no cc number needed...
> D
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Mary Donahue" <braille at satx.rr.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Roommate
>
>
> > Hello Rachael and everyone,
> >
> >    Did you check with your affiliate to see if anyone would let you room
> > with them? We asked this same question of someone from New York in 2001
> > and
> > she told us know. The good hearted people we are we allowed her to stay
> > with
> > us-- a very, very, bad mistake! Today a plea like this for a room sends
> > those red flags flying high in our minds!
> >
> >    I realize that rooms are at a premium for this year's national
> > convention. Here's hoping you can find a roommate. And for God's sakes
> > treat
> > them with the respect and dignity they deserve for allowing you to stay
> > with
> > them . And if you have issues between each other don't try to tangle with
> > them at 1:30 in the morning!
> >
> >    This is the tenth anniversary of the national convention that went
> very
> > wrong for us in 2001. We're very careful who rooms with us. I just don't
> > want to see anyone else have to go through what we went through that year
> > due to bad decisions where roommates are concerned. Here's hoping
> everyone
> > has a wonderful and hassle-free convention. Now let's all go Sorin!
> >
> > Peter Donahue
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rachael Vacanti" <revacanti at gmail.com>
> > To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:44 PM
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Roommate
> >
> >
> > Hey NABS Girls,
> >
> > If ANYONE has a room at SHINGLE CREEK July 2-8th, PLEASE let me know.
> > Whether I know you or not, I'm sure we can get along.  After all, who
> > spends
> > time in their room during national convention?  Certainly, I won't be.
> > All
> > I will need is a room confirmation number, and last 4 digits of a credit
> > card.  Or if anyone is looking for a roommate, I have a room at Shingle
> > Creek July 4-8th, but I'm staying at the Centre on the 2nd and 3rd.  So,
> > girls, let me know as soon as possible please.
> >
> > Rachael Vacanti
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:48:57 -0600
> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,    "T. Joseph Carter" <
> carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikyoxx8E2KU2ELkoFiDLZh1o33-QQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Joseph,
>  I only just yesterday connected the dots and realized that the
> iphone and victor stream have the same synthesizer, lol!  And I don't
> really mind Samantha on the iPhone, is she really a lot better on a
> full computer?
>
> On 6/10/11, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
> > My first exposure to Mobile Samantha was on the Victor Stream.  She
> > still grates on my nerves on the iPhone, and I prefer the mobile
> > version of Tom.
> >
> > I do prefer full version of Samantha, though.
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:33:29PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>Samantha, sounds right.
> >>Has anyone observed that, blind dudes tend to be drawn to Samantha
> >>and other female nararrators, while females tend to prefer Paul who
> >>has always been my personal favorite back in the days when I used the
> >>standalone OpenBook machine. I use K now. I  prefer to listen with
> >>perfect Paul!
> >>Car:
> >>>I think the voice Over lady is Samantha.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Jun 9, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Jorge,
> >>>>  I mean like Fred, Paul, Harry, Georgina or whatever her name is...I
> >>>> much prefer Reed myself.  *smile*  Oh-and someone should give the
> >>>> voiceover lady a name.  I like her, too.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>> I didn't understand apple's synthesizer; back when I was first
> >>>learning the
> >>>>> computer they had the Apple computer at school. It was harder to
> >>>understand.
> >>>>> Eeek. Jaws is clearer with eloquence.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 6:48 PM
> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ashley,
> >>>>>  You think decktalk's robotic?  Listen to the old Apple speech
> >>>>> synthesizers...I'll show you robotic!  *grin*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 6/9/11, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> dec talk sounds too robotic!  Its annoying.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
> >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 3:55 PM
> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Well that's good, Dectalk is annoying.  But the Dectalk archive
> >>>>>> songs are pretty funny, especially its battles with Eloquence.
> >>>>>> Maybe you could check on GW Micro's site.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
> >>>>>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
> >>>>>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
> >>>>>> www.campabilities.org.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
> >>>>>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
> >>>>>> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
> >>>>>> www.icanfoundation.info.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> PS: Last chance to get your tickets for the I C.A.N.
> >>>>>> Foundation's Night Out at the Frederick Keys fundraiser on June
> >>>>>> 4th! They're only 6 dollars per ticket and all proceeds go to the
> >>>>>> Foundation to help the blind and visually impaired youth in
> >>>>>> Maryland! Get your tickets today by contacting Wendy Nusbaum by
> >>>>>> email at wendynusbaum at yahoo.com.  Visit the above link to the I
> >>>>>> C.A.N.  Foundation Web site for more information or join us on
> >>>>>> Facebook at "I C.A.N.  Foundation: nonprofit organization." Hope
> >>>>>> to see you at the game!!!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- Sent from my BrailleNote
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:22:30 -0400
> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes commands
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am getting a temporary job and I was informed I have to use
> >>>>>> Window  Eyes, WE, and I am used to jaws.
> >>>>>> At least I can change it to elloquence.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So does anyone have a list of commands for it, the reading
> >>>>>> commands I mean.
> >>>>>> I need commands for things like read to end of screen; in jaws
> >>>>>> that is insert down arrow.  Also read next/previous word, current
> >>>>>> line, current sentence, next/previous paragraph would help.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How are the internet commands different? I know that you move
> >>>>>> through menus with the same arrows and hit enter on your menu
> >>>>>> choice, just as with jaws; that is a keyboard thing, not a screen
> >>>>>> reader thing.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I heard you still have to turn on forms mode in We, where as jaws
> >>>>>> you do not.  Are the hot keys the same, or are some the same.
> >>>>>> Some of the hot keys for internet for jaws are:
> >>>>>> insert f7: links list.
> >>>>>> insert f5: headings list
> >>>>>> Insert f9: frames list
> >>>>>> H: headings
> >>>>>> C: combo box
> >>>>>> R: radio button
> >>>>>> B: button
> >>>>>> In jaws you can also custom label links and I think that command
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>> Control insert tab.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for any tips.
> >>>>>> Ashley
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>>> for nabs-l:
> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nu
> >>>>>> sbaum%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> >>>for nabs-l:
> >>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>nabs-l mailing list
> >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>nabs-l mailing list
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> >> nabs-l:
> >>
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> >
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> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 56, Issue 13
> **************************************
>