[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Carly Mihalakis
carlymih at earthlink.net
Thu Jun 23 03:41:03 UTC 2011
Hi, Anmol,
Exactly my point. The Federation wraps ad nausium, about independent
this and self initiated and back to independent but, when the cards
are on the table, a person must still rely on another, to identify
his money? What was wrong with supporting an accessable currency,
from the to begin with?22/2011, Anmol Bhatia wrote:
>Kirt,
>You and Josh have valid points, but I have even a better solution!
>Lets make the currency identifable so that a blind person would not
>have to find a friend or rely on technology to identify their money.
>Don't we stress independence? Well having to ask someone how much
>money you have or dependenting on technology to identify your money
>is not independence. The folding method is fine if you know how much
>money you have.
>Anmol
>I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>like a breeze among flowers.
>Hellen Keller
>
>
>--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
> interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 4:00 PM
> > Joshua,
> > Valid points. I've got a solution for you that
> > doesn't cost a
> > thing. Get a sighted person you trust to tell you
> > what your bills are
> > when you get them, and fold them so you can identify them
> > in the
> > future. Inconvenient, maybe...but hey, if we're going
> > to fit in to
> > the world we've got to put up with some annoyances.
> > BTW, what's wrong with a 20 cell display? Not
> > ideal maybe but, hey,
> > maybe a rehab counselor would be more willing to get
> > something with
> > that much of a price reduction as compared to a 40
> > cell. I used a
> > 20-cell PAC mate all through High School, an 18-cell Apex
> > for my first
> > year of college, and the shorter displays work fine.
> > Best,
> > Kirt
> >
> > On 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > This is what Allan Ramos told me.
> > > He was a trainee at LWSB, when I was there.
> > > He's a member of the CCB, (California Council of the
> > Blind,) (not to
> > > be confused with Colorado Center for the Blind.)
> > > I'm going on what he said.
> > > Paper currency in the US, started with Andrew
> > Jackson.
> > > Glenn Beck talks about this in great deal, in his
> > book, "Growth."
> > > I've heard, that the debit cards are an alternative,
> > but we don't have
> > > such a system, that is accessible to us, in my small
> > town.
> > > It's either what I suggested, or we should ask the NFB
> > to push the
> > > companies that make accessible technologies, to make
> > their technology
> > > affordable for all blind citizens, that need it.
> > > That's my problem with the Blind Driver Challenge,
> > (for example.)
> > > They will make this car, but they have to charge an
> > obseen amount of
> > > money, for it.
> > > I'm not going to be able to afford it.
> > > I can't afford a Pac Mate, with a 32 cell Braille
> > display, and my
> > > state won't purchase it, for my schooling.
> > > I'm bringing this up, because, (back to the currency,)
> > the IBill costs $100.
> > > The IBill, (I felt of one at convention last year,) is
> > as small as a
> > > giga-pet.
> > > I got one of those, for $5, when I was a child!
> > > Why would I pay $100 for something that small?
> > > Make it affordable!
> > > Blessings, Joshua
> > >
> > > On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> Josh,
> > >> Your idea to have only coins is a good idea, but
> > not realistic. Can you
> > >> see
> > >> a 50 dollar coin or even 20 dollar coin? Paper
> > currency has been and will
> > >> always be a fabric of this country as it is in
> > every country. Which
> > >> country
> > >> has only coins and know paper currency?
> > >> I do not believe, but I could be wrong and please
> > correct me, but I do not
> > >> think that ACB is advocating only braille notes.
> > From my understanding
> > >> they
> > >> have been advocating a form of paper currency
> > which is accessible and
> > >> afordable. Ovisily braille is not the most
> > afordable means to make paper
> > >> currency accessible.
> > >>
> > >> Anmol
> > >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they
> > never make me sad. Perhaps
> > >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it
> > is vague, like a breeze
> > >> among flowers.
> > >> Hellen Keller
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list]
> > Threw Our Eyes interview,
> > >>> Ride
> > >>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
> > 22, 8:00 pm EDT
> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students
> > mailing list"
> > >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > >>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:51 PM
> > >>> Anmol, it's amazing that you bring up
> > >>> accessible currency.
> > >>> What the ACB wants, is Brailled currency.
> > >>> That isn't going to work.
> > >>> I have the answer to the problem.
> > >>> First of all, it's political.
> > >>> I'm tired of people saying that the
> > conservatives aren't on
> > >>> the side
> > >>> of the blind.
> > >>> When it comes to currency, they are.
> > >>> Remember, when Reagan mentioned a return to
> > the gold
> > >>> standard?
> > >>> Coins are the answer to the problem.
> > >>> We can identify the coins, by their texture.
> > >>> We can't do this with paper currency.
> > >>> That solves the problems with our currency.
> > >>> This would help everyone, including us.
> > >>> #1. You can't inflate, or deflate coins.
> > >>> #2. You can't counterfeit coins.
> > >>> #3, (Here's the thing that will help blind
> > people,) We can
> > >>> identify
> > >>> coins by their texture.
> > >>> Would there have to be alot of changes made?
> > >>> Yes, but is it worth it?
> > >>> Yes!
> > >>> Blessings, Joshua
> > >>>
> > >>> On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>> > Jessica,
> > >>> > Good point. In addition, I would much
> > rather a blind
> > >>> person to feel mobil
> > >>> > even if they don't have good mobility
> > skills and
> > >>> frankly I would rather have
> > >>> > audible street lights then to see a blind
> > person get
> > >>> killed because they
> > >>> > could not figure out how the traffic
> > goes.
> > >>> > Anmol
> > >>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and
> > they never
> > >>> make me sad. Perhaps
> > >>> > there is just a touch of yearning at
> > times; but it is
> > >>> vague, like a breeze
> > >>> > among flowers.
> > >>> > Hellen Keller
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net>
> > >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
> > [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
> > >>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
> > >>> >> into History, Race for Independence,
> > Wed. June 22,
> > >>> 8:00 pm EDT
> > >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind
> > Students
> > >>> mailing list"
> > >>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > >>> >> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:01
> > PM
> > >>> >> There are certain types of
> > >>> >> intersections where no matter how
> > long you stand
> > >>> there and
> > >>> >> listen to traffic you will never hear
> > a good cycle
> > >>> so in
> > >>> >> those cases I actually support aps.
> > Just keep that
> > >>> in mind
> > >>> >> when someone talks about every
> > intersection being
> > >>> crossable
> > >>> >> by listening to traffic.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Kirt
> > Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> > >>> >> wrote:
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> > Anmol,
> > >>> >> > It's a nice thought.
> > Maybe it'll
> > >>> be
> > >>> >> possible, some day. Never say
> > >>> >> > never, ri9ght?
> > >>> >> > But here's the
> > thing. The two
> > >>> >> organizations have evolved two
> > >>> >> > separate philosophies and
> > mindsets. I'm
> > >>> doing
> > >>> >> something really bad
> > >>> >> > and generalizing. If
> > anyone who knows
> > >>> more than
> > >>> >> I do wants to correct
> > >>> >> > me here, feel free.
> > >>> >> > The stance the ACB seems
> > to take more
> > >>> often than
> > >>> >> not is to make the
> > >>> >> > environment more accessible for
> > us.
> > >>> This is
> > >>> >> evidenced by their
> > >>> >> > support for audible street
> > signals (which
> > >>> make a lot
> > >>> >> of sense to me,
> > >>> >> > I'm not really convinced one way
> > or the other
> > >>> on that
> > >>> >> one yet),
> > >>> >> > tactile currency, descriptive
> > movies, the
> > >>> provisions
> > >>> >> in the ADA to
> > >>> >> > make ATMs accessible, the 21st
> > century
> > >>> communications
> > >>> >> act, their
> > >>> >> > support for Randolph-Shepherd,
> > universal
> > >>> design in
> > >>> >> technology, etc.
> > >>> >> > They also use lots of their
> > resources to
> > >>> fight
> > >>> >> descrimination, at
> > >>> >> > least it seems that way to me.
> > >>> >> > The NFB, on the other
> > hand, seems to
> > >>> more often
> > >>> >> than not advocate us
> > >>> >> > adapting to the
> > environment. This is
> > >>> evidenced
> > >>> >> by the strict
> > >>> >> > standards of training centers,
> > pushing
> > >>> braille,
> > >>> >> opposition to the
> > >>> >> > tactile currency idea, advocacy
> > of relying on
> > >>> traffic
> > >>> >> rather than
> > >>> >> > audible signals (which makes a
> > lot of sense
> > >>> to me),
> > >>> >> our philosophy
> > >>> >> > that with the right training and
> > opportunity
> > >>> we can
> > >>> >> compete on an
> > >>> >> > equal footing, the idea of the
> > blind driver
> > >>> challenge,
> > >>> >> etc. Of course
> > >>> >> > the NFB sometimes pushes making
> > changes in
> > >>> the
> > >>> >> environment (technology
> > >>> >> > bill of rights, Help America
> > Vote Act, and
> > >>> the ADA
> > >>> >> which we also
> > >>> >> > supported), and the ACB does
> > advocate for
> > >>> quality
> > >>> >> independence
> > >>> >> > training/O&M. But,
> > those are the
> > >>> rough
> > >>> >> philosophies of the two
> > >>> >> > organizations, if we're going by
> > their
> > >>> records.
> > >>> >> Is the ACB wrong?
> > >>> >> > No, I don't think so, but the
> > NFB is more of
> > >>> a fit
> > >>> >> with my vision of
> > >>> >> > blindness. I just think
> > thee two
> > >>> separate
> > >>> >> methodoligies willkeep us
> > >>> >> > from ever uniting as one
> > group...and that's
> > >>> ok.
> > >>> >> We all have the
> > >>> >> > right, even the obligation to
> > advocate for
> > >>> ourselves
> > >>> >> and those we
> > >>> >> > represent. The ACB does it
> > their way,
> > >>> we do it
> > >>> >> ours. Sometimes there
> > >>> >> > is overlap, lots of times our
> > philosophies
> > >>> take us in
> > >>> >> different
> > >>> >> > directions and put us on
> > opposite sides of
> > >>> important
> > >>> >> issues. When our
> > >>> >> > aims are the same (or similar),
> > we need to
> > >>> work
> > >>> >> together and present a
> > >>> >> > united front. When we are
> > at odds
> > >>> (which we
> > >>> >> often are, the two
> > >>> >> > organizations really are very
> > different), we
> > >>> both have
> > >>> >> the right to
> > >>> >> > push our separate agendas and
> > attempt to get
> > >>> our
> > >>> >> policies implimented.
> > >>> >> > Sometimes they win, sometimes we
> > win, that's
> > >>> >> politics. We don't have
> > >>> >> > to be bitter about it and, on
> > the personal
> > >>> level, we
> > >>> >> can still be good
> > >>> >> > friends even when our politics
> > are at odds.
> > >>> >> > Just my thoughts,
> > >>> >> > Kirt
> > >>> >> >
> > >>> >> > On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
> > >>> >> wrote:
> > >>> >> >> Kirt,
> > >>> >> >> You bring some vary valid
> > points, and yes
> > >>> we have
> > >>> >> beaten the
> > >>> >> >> democrats/republicans
> > analogy to
> > >>> death but
> > >>> >> it keeps coming up as a
> > >>> >> >> comparison, so I will just
> > say one thing
> > >>> about
> > >>> >> this. I may have already said
> > >>> >> >> this before on the list, but
> > please
> > >>> furgive me if
> > >>> >> I have. The blind
> > >>> >> >> community is a to small of a
> > community to
> > >>> be
> > >>> >> divided on partizen lines like
> > >>> >> >> democrats and republicans,
> > and our
> > >>> challenges are
> > >>> >> to great to be divided
> > >>> >> >> like democrats and
> > republicans. Sure
> > >>> there will be
> > >>> >> differences between
> > >>> >> >> members of the ACB and
> > members of the NFB
> > >>> on how
> > >>> >> business should be
> > >>> >> >> conducted, but honestly
> > there differences
> > >>> between
> > >>> >> members of each
> > >>> >> >> organization on how their
> > organization
> > >>> should do
> > >>> >> business.
> > >>> >> >> True there were disagreement
> > on how
> > >>> business
> > >>> >> should and leadership issues
> > >>> >> >> causing the split between
> > the NFB and
> > >>> ACB, I
> > >>> >> consider the leadership issues
> > >>> >> >> to be pitty differences.
> > Often when one
> > >>> candidate
> > >>> >> loses, they and their
> > >>> >> >> supporters go and form their
> > on
> > >>> organization or
> > >>> >> chapter. This happened at my
> > >>> >> >> local NFB chapter and as a
> > result we have
> > >>> two NFB
> > >>> >> chapters in a small town.
> > >>> >> >> Now some may consider this
> > to be a good
> > >>> thing, but
> > >>> >> think about how much more
> > >>> >> >> we can achieve if we were
> > one NFB chapter
> > >>> in
> > >>> >> Fayetteville in recruiting,
> > >>> >> >> fund raising and my
> > volunteers for
> > >>> events. In
> > >>> >> addition, these types of
> > >>> >> >> childish arguements causes
> > many blind
> > >>> people who
> > >>> >> otherwise may be involved
> > >>> >> >> in a blind organization to
> > be a "fense
> > >>> sitters".
> > >>> >> Now using this analogy to
> > >>> >> >> NFB ACB, ACB does not have
> > near the funds
> > >>> that NFB
> > >>> >> has, but they are not
> > >>> >> >> poor eather. Their
> > attendence is not as
> > >>> large at
> > >>> >> the conventions, but it is
> > >>> >> >> not small eather. Think if
> > both of these
> > >>> >> organizations were together how
> > >>> >> >> much more money we would
> > have to do
> > >>> policy that
> > >>> >> each organization does or
> > >>> >> >> the advocacy work that each
> > >>> organization
> > >>> >> does, and think about how much
> > >>> >> >> larger the convention would
> > be. We would
> > >>> pack two
> > >>> >> hotels full or near full.
> > >>> >> >> In addition, think about how
> > much venders
> > >>> would be
> > >>> >> giving out in prizes
> > >>> >> >> because now insteading
> > having to spend
> > >>> money to
> > >>> >> send their workers to two
> > >>> >> >> convention, they will only
> > have to send
> > >>> their
> > >>> >> workers to one convention. In
> > >>> >> >> addition, most venders give
> > out big
> > >>> prizes at each
> > >>> >> convention and if there
> > >>> >> >> was only one convention,
> > they can give
> > >>> two
> > >>> >> prizes.
> > >>> >> >> However, you are right in
> > that
> > >>> realistically the
> > >>> >> two organizations will not
> > >>> >> >> merge any time soon.
> > >>> >> >>
> > >>> >> >> best wishes,
> > >>> >> >> Anmol
> > >>> >> >> I seldom think about my
> > limitations, and
> > >>> they
> > >>> >> never make me sad. Perhaps
> > >>> >> >> there is just a touch of
> > yearning at
> > >>> times; but it
> > >>> >> is vague, like a breeze
> > >>> >> >> among flowers.
> > >>> >> >> Hellen Keller
> > >>> >> >>
> > >>> >> >>
> > >>> >> >> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt
> > Manwaring
> > >>> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> > >>> >> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>
> > >>> >> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring
> > <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> > >>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
> > >>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
> > >>> >> Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
> > >>> >> >>> into History, Race for
> > Independence,
> > >>> Wed. June
> > >>> >> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
> > >>> >> >>> To: "National
> > Association of Blind
> > >>> Students
> > >>> >> mailing list"
> > >>> >> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > >>> >> >>> Date: Tuesday, June 21,
> > 2011, 2:51
> > >>> PM
> > >>> >> >>> Anmol,
> > >>> >> >>> I don't
> > really see a
> > >>> merger
> > >>> >> happening any time soon,
> > >>> >> >>> nor would I
> > >>> >> >>> want it to. We've
> > all beaten
> > >>> the
> > >>> >> democrat/republican
> > >>> >> >>> analogy to
> > >>> >> >>> death...but imagine
> > Barack Obama and
> > >>> Mitt
> > >>> >> Romney in the
> > >>> >> >>> same political
> > >>> >> >>> party. It just
> > wouldn't work.
> > >>> >> There are huge
> > >>> >> >>> differences. It
> > >>> >> >>> doesn't make the NFB
> > better for
> > >>> everyone, but
> > >>> >> it makes the
> > >>> >> >>> NFB better
> > >>> >> >>> for me. I have
> > lots of respect
> > >>> for my
> > >>> >> friends in the
> > >>> >> >>> ACB who stand up
> > >>> >> >>> and fight for their
> > agenda.
> > >>> Lots of the
> > >>> >> times, it's
> > >>> >> >>> the same as mine.
> > >>> >> >>> When it's not, we can
> > talk without
> > >>> being
> > >>> >> jackasses to each
> > >>> >> >>> other and,
> > >>> >> >>> in a lot of cases, the
> > disagreement
> > >>> actually
> > >>> >> strengthens
> > >>> >> >>> our
> > >>> >> >>> friendship.
> > >>> >> >>> I say
> > diversity is
> > >>> good,
> > >>> >> competition is good, we
> > >>> >> >>> need a free market
> > >>> >> >>> of ideas. I
> > respect ACB and the
> > >>> sincere
> > >>> >> people there
> > >>> >> >>> trying to make
> > >>> >> >>> the lives of blind
> > people
> > >>> better. I
> > >>> >> happen to find
> > >>> >> >>> the Federation
> > >>> >> >>> philosophy and method
> > more meaningful
> > >>> for
> > >>> >> me. I want
> > >>> >> >>> to understand
> > >>> >> >>> the split. From
> > the little bit
> > >>> of
> > >>> >> studying I've done,
> > >>> >> >>> I don't really
> > >>> >> >>> think it was petty
> > personal
> > >>> differences but
> > >>> >> rather
> > >>> >> >>> differing
> > >>> >> >>> philosophies about
> > methodology and
> > >>> leadership
> > >>> >> that drove
> > >>> >> >>> the two
> > >>> >> >>> groups to
> > separate. We can be
> > >>> different
> > >>> >> without being
> > >>> >> >>> petty. We can
> > >>> >> >>> disagree without being
> > bigots.
> > >>> When our
> > >>> >> two
> > >>> >> >>> organizations come down
> > >>> >> >>> on opposite sides of
> > important
> > >>> issues, as we
> > >>> >> often do, we
> > >>> >> >>> need not be
> > >>> >> >>> arrogant or
> > self-rightious because we
> > >>> think
> > >>> >> we're
> > >>> >> >>> right. The fact
> > is,
> > >>> >> >>> we disagree. And I
> > think the
> > >>> >> disagreements are too
> > >>> >> >>> central to our
> > >>> >> >>> respective organizations
> > for us to
> > >>> ever become
> > >>> >> one.
> > >>> >> >>> But that doesn't
> > >>> >> >>> mean we can't be
> > friends, especially
> > >>> on a
> > >>> >> personal level.
> > >>> >> >>> Best,
> > >>> >> >>> Kirt
> > >>> >> >>>
> > >>> >> >>> On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia
> > <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
> > >>> >> >>> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>> Kirt,
> > >>> >> >>>> You are bringing up
> > some vary
> > >>> good
> > >>> >> points...
> > >>> >> >>> Understanding the
> > history of
> > >>> >> >>>> the NFB and ACB is
> > an import part
> > >>> in the
> > >>> >> history in
> > >>> >> >>> the blind movement and
> > >>> >> >>>> an important part in
> > the history
> > >>> of two
> > >>> >> organizations.
> > >>> >> >>> Frankly in it is just
> > >>> >> >>>> my oppinion both
> > organizations
> > >>> bring value
> > >>> >> and have
> > >>> >> >>> and continue to make a
> > >>> >> >>>> difference for blind
> > people
> > >>> across America
> > >>> >> on a daily
> > >>> >> >>> bases. It is a shame
> > >>> >> >>>> that this split
> > happened and just
> > >>> maybe
> > >>> >> the next
> > >>> >> >>> generation of blind
> > >>> >> >>>> individuals our
> > generation or
> > >>> those who
> > >>> >> are younger
> > >>> >> >>> then can bring the two
> > >>> >> >>>> organizations
> > together once
> > >>> again. Now
> > >>> >> this is just my
> > >>> >> >>> translation and my
> > >>> >> >>>> oppinion, but
> > it seems to
> > >>> me that
> > >>> >> the NFB ACB
> > >>> >> >>> split happened over
> > pitty
> > >>> >> >>>> differences and two
> > individuals
> > >>> with
> > >>> >> different ideas
> > >>> >> >>> fighting for power. It
> > >>> >> >>>> seems to me that the
> > hate the
> > >>> two
> > >>> >> organizations have
> > >>> >> >>> towards each other is
> > >>> >> >>>> not as strong
> > amongest this
> > >>> generation.
> > >>> >> Infact many
> > >>> >> >>> members of NABS of ACB
> > >>> >> >>>> and NABS of NFB are
> > friends in
> > >>> life and
> > >>> >> attack on the
> > >>> >> >>> other organization is
> > >>> >>
> > >>>> usually not
> > >>> allow on each
> > >>> >> organization's mailing
> > >>> >> >>> list.
> > >>> >> >>>> Dave, you are right
> > that ACB does
> > >>> not have
> > >>> >> the same
> > >>> >> >>> amount of people
> > >>> >> >>>> attending its'
> > convention, but
> > >>> their
> > >>> >> attendence is not
> > >>> >> >>> small eather. I would
> > >>> >> >>>> guess 1500 attend
> > the ACB
> > >>> convention and
> > >>> >> all the major
> > >>> >> >>> venders who attend
> > >>> >> >>>> the NFB convention
> > attend the
> > >>> ACB
> > >>> >> convention. There
> > >>> >> >>> are also quite a few
> > >>> >> >>>> young people who
> > attend the ACB
> > >>> >> convention.
> > >>> >> >>>> Yes ACB does its'
> > business
> > >>> different then
> > >>> >> NFB, but
> > >>> >> >>> thats why they are a
> > >>> >> >>>> different
> > organization. However,
> > >>> this does
> > >>> >> not make
> > >>> >> >>> them any worse or
> > better
> > >>> >> >>>> then the NFB.
> > >>> >> >>>> Just my thoughts and
> > it would be
> > >>> great if
> > >>> >> we keep the
> > >>> >> >>> attacks on each
> > >>> >> >>>> organization to as
> > less as
> > >>> possible.
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>> Anmol
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>> I seldom think about
> > my
> > >>> limitations, and
> > >>> >> they never
> > >>> >> >>> make me sad. Perhaps
> > >>> >> >>>> there is just a
> > touch of yearning
> > >>> at
> > >>> >> times; but it is
> > >>> >> >>> vague, like a breeze
> > >>> >> >>>> among flowers.
> > >>> >> >>>> Hellen Keller
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>> --- On Tue, 6/21/11,
> > Kirt
> > >>> Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> > >>> >> >>> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>> From: Kirt
> > Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> > >>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re:
> > [nabs-l]
> > >>> >> [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
> > >>> >> >>> Our Eyes interview,
> > Ride
> > >>> >> >>>>> into History,
> > Race for
> > >>> Independence,
> > >>> >> Wed. June 22,
> > >>> >> >>> 8:00 pm EDT
> > >>> >> >>>>> To: "National
> > Association of
> > >>> Blind
> > >>> >> Students
> > >>> >> >>> mailing list"
> > >>> >> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > >>> >> >>>>> Date: Tuesday,
> > June 21, 2011,
> > >>> 12:25
> > >>> >> PM
> > >>> >> >>>>> Dave,
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>> How long ago
> > >>> was
> > >>> >> this? Things could've
> > >>> >> >>> changed
> > >>> >> >>>>> since you last
> > went
> > >>> >> >>>>> if it's been a
> > while, maybe?
> > >>> >> And, with respect,
> > >>> >> >>> this
> > >>> >> >>>>> is a big deal
> > to
> > >>> >> >>>>> a lot of
> > us. I know for
> > >>> me it's
> > >>> >> a lot more than
> > >>> >> >>> a
> > >>> >> >>>>> "small
> > >>> >> >>>>> consideration",
> > I like to
> > >>> know the
> > >>> >> past as much as
> > >>> >> >>> I can
> > >>> >> >>>>> because it
> > >>> >> >>>>> shaped the here
> > and
> > >>> now. I can
> > >>> >> read the books
> > >>> >> >>> put out
> > >>> >> >>>>> by each
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > organization-they probably
> > >>> both have
> > >>> >> lots of the
> > >>> >> >>> truth
> > >>> >> >>>>> intermingled
> > >>> >> >>>>> with their
> > respective
> > >>> agendas.
> > >>> >> But nothing
> > >>> >> >>> beats
> > >>> >> >>>>> talking to
> > people
> > >>> >> >>>>> who have studied
> > the issues
> > >>> or,
> > >>> >> preferably, people
> > >>> >> >>> who were
> > >>> >> >>>>> actually
> > >>> >> >>>>> there.
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>> All the
> > >>> best,
> > >>> >> >>>>> Kirt
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>> On 6/21/11,
> > David Andrews
> > >>> <dandrews at visi.com>
> > >>> >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>>>> The two
> > biggest things I
> > >>> noticed
> > >>> >> at an ACB
> > >>> >> >>> national
> > >>> >> >>>>> convention were
> > >>> >> >>>>>> that the
> > crowd was
> > >>> considerably
> > >>> >> smaller than
> > >>> >> >>> that at a
> > >>> >> >>>>> NFB convention
> > >>> >> >>>>>> -- less
> > exhibits etc.
> > >>> too.
> > >>> >> The second
> > >>> >> >>> things was
> > >>> >> >>>>> that there were
> > few
> > >>> >> >>>>>> young
> > persons -- some
> > >>> but
> > >>> >> noticeably not
> > >>> >> >>> very
> > >>> >> >>>>> many. One
> > of the major
> > >>> >> >>>>>> things that
> > the ACB has
> > >>> pushed in
> > >>> >> the past is
> > >>> >> >>> that it
> > >>> >> >>>>> is different
> > >>> >> >>>>>> from the
> > NFB, it does
> > >>> things
> > >>> >> differently
> > >>> >> >>> etc.
> > >>> >> >>>>> This doesn't
> > really
> > >>> >> >>>>>> matter to
> > younger people
> > >>> though,
> > >>> >> so they have
> > >>> >> >>> little
> > >>> >> >>>>> reason to join,
> > so
> > >>> >> >>>>>> don't.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>> You guys can
> > spend lots
> > >>> of time on
> > >>> >> the
> > >>> >> >>> history, and
> > >>> >> >>>>> differences if
> > >>> >> >>>>>> you want --
> > but what is
> > >>> the
> > >>> >> point. It
> > >>> >> >>> happened,
> > >>> >> >>>>> it is over with
> > and
> > >>> >> >>>>>> done.
> > Yes we can
> > >>> and should
> > >>> >> learn from our
> > >>> >> >>>>> history, but it
> > is just
> > >>> >> >>>>>> one small
> > consideration.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>> Dave
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>> At 11:32 AM
> > 6/20/2011,
> > >>> you wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>> Dave,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>
> > I do see
> > >>> your
> > >>> >> point. Those
> > >>> >> >>>>> alive at the
> > time are not,
> > >>> and will
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>
> > probabluy never be
> > >>> >> friends. Heck,
> > >>> >> >>> getting
> > >>> >> >>>>> them to actually
> > talk in
> > >>> >> >>>>>>> peace
> > would be the
> > >>> achievement
> > >>> >> of the
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > century! if
> > >>> such a
> > >>> >> call were
> > >>> >> >>>>>>> to
> > hypothetically
> > >>> happen, how
> > >>> >> could we
> > >>> >> >>> keep it from
> > >>> >> >>>>> opening old
> > wounds
> > >>> >> >>>>>>> and
> > stoking old
> > >>> fires?
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>
> > Best,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>> Kirt
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>> On
> > 6/20/11, Chris
> > >>> Nusbaum
> > >>> >> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> > >>> >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Dave,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> Our
> > joint
> > >>> conference call
> > >>> >> isn't
> > >>> >> >>> associated
> > >>> >> >>>>> whatsoever with
> > the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > proposition of a
> > >>> change in
> > >>> >> the NFB
> > >>> >> >>>>> bylaw. If
> > I'm setting
> > >>> this
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> up,
> > which it
> > >>> appears I am,
> > >>> >> I didn't
> > >>> >> >>> even have
> > >>> >> >>>>> the intention
> > of
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > mentioning that
> > >>> >> proposition on the
> > >>> >> >>>>> call. The
> > call's
> > >>> purpose is
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> to
> > learn the
> > >>> history of
> > >>> >> the NFB/ACB,
> > >>> >> >>> with a
> > >>> >> >>>>> little emphasis
> > on
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> the
> > "civil war"
> > >>> period,
> > >>> >> from both
> > >>> >> >>> sides so we
> > >>> >> >>>>> are
> > informed. I
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> also
> > want this
> > >>> call to
> > >>> >> start a
> > >>> >> >>> discussion on
> > >>> >> >>>>> the history of
> > our
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > movement and what
> > >>> we can
> > >>> >> learn from
> > >>> >> >>> it, not
> > >>> >> >>>>> only as
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Federationists,
> > >>> but as
> > >>> >> blind
> > >>> >> >>> students.
> > >>> >> >>>>> Jorge and I have
> > found
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> some
> > ways that we
> > >>> can hold
> > >>> >> the call
> > >>> >> >>> without
> > >>> >> >>>>> making it a
> > NABS
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > membership call,
> > >>> if it is
> > >>> >> entirely
> > >>> >> >>>>> necessary.
> > And as to
> > >>> your
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > comments about
> > >>> them not
> > >>> >> being our
> > >>> >> >>> friends,
> > >>> >> >>>>> then using your
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > argument, the
> > >>> Republicans
> > >>> >> should not
> > >>> >> >>> hear the
> > >>> >> >>>>> Democrats point
> > of
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> view
> > in meetings
> > >>> of
> > >>> >> Congress, but
> > >>> >> >>> the two
> > >>> >> >>>>> parties should
> > be
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > separated from
> > >>> each other
> > >>> >> for fear
> > >>> >> >>> of their
> > >>> >> >>>>> own side being
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > attacked.
> > >>> We can
> > >>> >> keep our same
> > >>> >> >>>>> opinions, and
> > probably many
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Federationists
> > >>> and Council
> > >>> >> members
> > >>> >> >>> who attend
> > >>> >> >>>>> this call will.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> This
> > is just a
> > >>> way that we
> > >>> >> can be
> > >>> >> >>> more
> > >>> >> >>>>> informed when
> > forming
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > these opinions.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> Chris
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> "A
> > loss of sight,
> > >>> never a
> > >>> >> loss of
> > >>> >> >>> vision!"
> > >>> >> >>>>> (Camp Abilities
> > motto)
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> To
> > learn more
> > >>> about Camp
> > >>> >> Abilities
> > >>> >> >>> and find a
> > >>> >> >>>>> local camp near
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> you,
> > just click
> > >>> on this
> > >>> >> link to
> > >>> >> >>> their
> > >>> >> >>>>> national Web
> > site:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> www.campabilities.org.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> The
> > I C.A.N.
> > >>> >> Foundation helps
> > >>> >> >>> visually
> > >>> >> >>>>> impaired youth
> > in
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Maryland have the
> > >>> ability
> > >>> >> to
> > >>> >> >>> confidently say
> > >>> >> >>>>> "I can!" How?
> > Click
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> on
> > this link to
> > >>> learn more
> > >>> >> and to
> > >>> >> >>>>> contribute:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> www.icanfoundation.info.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> Sent from
> > >>> >> my BrailleNote
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> -----
> > >>> >> Original Message -----
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > From: David
> > >>> Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> To:
> > National
> > >>> Association
> > >>> >> of Blind
> > >>> >> >>> Students
> > >>> >> >>>>> mailing list
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> Date
> > sent: Sun,
> > >>> 19 Jun
> > >>> >> 2011 20:39:01
> > >>> >> >>> -0500
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Subject: Re:
> > >>> [nabs-l]
> > >>> >> >>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
> > >>> >> >>>>> Threw Our Eyes
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > interview,Ride
> > >>> into
> > >>> >> History, Race
> > >>> >> >>> for
> > >>> >> >>>>> Independence,
> > Wed.
> > >>> June
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> 22,
> > 8:00 pm EDT
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Chris:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> I
> > don't want to
> > >>> friend
> > >>> >> anyone -- but
> > >>> >> >>> I think
> > >>> >> >>>>> this is a
> > terrible
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > idea!
> > >>> Remember the
> > >>> >> ACB split off
> > >>> >> >>> from
> > >>> >> >>>>> the NFB because
> > they
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > thought
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> that
> > we were all
> > >>> wrong,
> > >>> >> did our
> > >>> >> >>> business in
> > >>> >> >>>>> the wrong way
> > etc. I
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> am
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> not
> > going to say
> > >>> that we
> > >>> >> can't learn
> > >>> >> >>> anything
> > >>> >> >>>>> from the ACB,
> > but
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> not
> > a
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > history
> > >>> lesson. I
> > >>> >> was at a ACb
> > >>> >> >>> National
> > >>> >> >>>>> Convention a few
> > years
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> ago
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> --
> > and heard the
> > >>> NFB
> > >>> >> attacked openly
> > >>> >> >>> and
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > indirectly. These
> > >>> folks
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> are
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> not
> > our
> > >>> friends. We
> > >>> >> can work
> > >>> >> >>> jointly at
> > >>> >> >>>>> times, and
> > should, and I
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > don't think we
> > >>> should be
> > >>> >> against
> > >>> >> >>> them, for
> > >>> >> >>>>> the sake of it,
> > as
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> some
> > of
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> my
> > old-timer
> > >>> friends are
> > >>> >> -- but a
> > >>> >> >>> joint
> > >>> >> >>>>> conference call
> > on
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > consideration of
> > >>> a change
> > >>> >> to a NFB
> > >>> >> >>> division
> > >>> >> >>>>> bylaw is going
> > to
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > far!
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Dave
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> At
> > 12:53 PM
> > >>> 6/19/2011, you
> > >>> >> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Kirt,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> I
> > have a friend
> > >>> in the
> > >>> >> Council that
> > >>> >> >>> I will
> > >>> >> >>>>> see Monday
> > night, so I
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> plan
> > to give this
> > >>> idea to
> > >>> >> him and
> > >>> >> >>> ask if he
> > >>> >> >>>>> knows someone in
> > the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Council that
> > >>> would be
> > >>> >> knowledgeable
> > >>> >> >>> enough
> > >>> >> >>>>> and willing to
> > attend
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> this
> > call on
> > >>> behalf of the
> > >>> >> Council
> > >>> >> >>> as an
> > >>> >> >>>>> expert on their
> > history.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Maybe it would be
> > >>> better
> > >>> >> if someone
> > >>> >> >>> like me
> > >>> >> >>>>> moderated.
> > Keep in
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > mind
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> that
> > I did
> > >>> volunteer, but
> > >>> >> I'm not
> > >>> >> >>> degrading
> > >>> >> >>>>> anyone else, I'm
> > just
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > using myself as
> > >>> an example
> > >>> >> here.
> > >>> >> >>> I'm a
> > >>> >> >>>>> member of the
> > Federation,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> but
> > I'm not a
> > >>> hard-line
> > >>> >> "NFB is
> > >>> >> >>> good, ACB
> > >>> >> >>>>> bad" person, so
> > I
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > wouldn't
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> show
> > any bias to
> > >>> NFB or
> > >>> >> ACB. I
> > >>> >> >>> also am
> > >>> >> >>>>> not currently a
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > contributing
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > (due-paying)
> > >>> member of
> > >>> >> NABS, so I'm
> > >>> >> >>> not a
> > >>> >> >>>>> leader in it of
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > course.
> > >>> That way, we
> > >>> >> wouldn't have
> > >>> >> >>> any
> > >>> >> >>>>> bias.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> I
> > think it would
> > >>> be easy
> > >>> >> to have it
> > >>> >> >>> jointly
> > >>> >> >>>>> attended even if
> > it's
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> an
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > official NABS
> > >>> call.
> > >>> >> If we have a
> > >>> >> >>>>> representative
> > of ACB on the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > call,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> we
> > could probably
> > >>> easily
> > >>> >> get other
> > >>> >> >>> members of
> > >>> >> >>>>> ACB on the call
> > to
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> kind
> > of back up
> > >>> or add to
> > >>> >> that
> > >>> >> >>> guest
> > >>> >> >>>>> speaker's
> > information.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Thoughts?
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Chris
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> "A
> > loss of sight,
> > >>> never a
> > >>> >> loss of
> > >>> >> >>> vision!"
> > >>> >> >>>>> (Camp Abilities
> > motto)
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> To
> > learn more
> > >>> about Camp
> > >>> >> Abilities
> > >>> >> >>> and find a
> > >>> >> >>>>> local camp near
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > you,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> just
> > click on
> > >>> this link to
> > >>> >> their
> > >>> >> >>> national Web
> > >>> >> >>>>> site:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> www.campabilities.org.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> The
> > I C.A.N.
> > >>> >> Foundation helps
> > >>> >> >>> visually
> > >>> >> >>>>> impaired youth
> > in
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Maryland
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> have
> > the ability
> > >>> to
> > >>> >> confidently say
> > >>> >> >>> "I can!"
> > >>> >> >>>>> How? Click on
> > this
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > link
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> to
> > learn more and
> > >>> to
> > >>> >> contribute:
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > www.icanfoundation.info.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> Sent
> > from my
> > >>> BrailleNote
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > ----- Original
> > >>> Message
> > >>> >> -----
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > From: Kirt
> > >>> Manwaring
> > >>> >> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> To:
> > National
> > >>> Association
> > >>> >> of Blind
> > >>> >> >>> Students
> > >>> >> >>>>> mailing list
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> Date
> > sent: Sun,
> > >>> 19 Jun
> > >>> >> 2011 00:45:08
> > >>> >> >>> -0600
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Subject: Re:
> > >>> [nabs-l]
> > >>> >> >>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
> > >>> >> >>>>> Threw Our Eyes
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > interview,Ride
> > >>> into
> > >>> >> History, Race
> > >>> >> >>> for
> > >>> >> >>>>> Independence,
> > Wed.
> > >>> June
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> 22,
> > 8:00 pm EDT
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Carley,
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> The
> > >>> two
> > >>> >> organizations don't
> > >>> >> >>>>> really claim to
> > be "friends"
> > >>> as
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > such-it
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > seems like now
> > >>> they just
> > >>> >> mostly
> > >>> >> >>> ignore each
> > >>> >> >>>>> other, work
> > jointly
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > when
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > their agendas
> > >>> converge and
> > >>> >> play
> > >>> >> >>> politics when
> > >>> >> >>>>> they
> > don't. Maybe
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > they
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > aren't enemies,
> > >>> but the
> > >>> >> official
> > >>> >> >>>>> organizations
> > don't really
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > advertise
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > themselves as
> > >>> friends.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> While it
> > >>> >> would be great to
> > >>> >> >>>>> have people from
> > both
> > >>> organizations
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > participate in a
> > >>> joint
> > >>> >> call, I don't
> > >>> >> >>> see it
> > >>> >> >>>>> happening.
> > Here's
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > hoping
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > though, I
> > >>> guess It's
> > >>> >> certainly a
> > >>> >> >>> nice
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > thought-although, if the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > call
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> were
> > to have
> > >>> presentations
> > >>> >> from
> > >>> >> >>> members of
> > >>> >> >>>>> both
> > organizations, it
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > probably should
> > >>> be jointly
> > >>> >> moderated
> > >>> >> >>> and
> > >>> >> >>>>> attended.
> > The NFB (or
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > probably even
> > >>> NABS) would,
> > >>> >> I'm
> > >>> >> >>> betting, not
> > >>> >> >>>>> be inclined to
> > go
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > there.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> So
> > maybe we'll
> > >>> have better
> > >>> >> luck
> > >>> >> >>> going through
> > >>> >> >>>>> unnoficial
> > channels
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> and
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > setting this up
> > >>> on our
> > >>> >> own? No
> > >>> >> >>> need to
> > >>> >> >>>>> make it an
> > official event
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> for
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > either the
> > >>> Federation or
> > >>> >> the
> > >>> >> >>> Council-I think
> > >>> >> >>>>> it's safe to
> > say
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > that
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> idea
> > was doomed
> > >>> to fail
> > >>> >> before it
> > >>> >> >>> was brought
> > >>> >> >>>>> up.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> Best,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Kirt
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> On
> > 6/18/11, Chris
> > >>> Nusbaum
> > >>> >> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> > >>> >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> And,
> > as I said
> > >>> before, I
> > >>> >> would be
> > >>> >> >>> very
> > >>> >> >>>>> willing to
> > moderate this
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > call.
> > >>> Please keep me
> > >>> >> posted!
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> "A
> > loss of sight,
> > >>> never a
> > >>> >> loss of
> > >>> >> >>> vision!"
> > >>> >> >>>>> (Camp Abilities
> > motto)
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> To
> > learn more
> > >>> about Camp
> > >>> >> Abilities
> > >>> >> >>> and find a
> > >>> >> >>>>> local camp near
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> you,
> > just click
> > >>> on this
> > >>> >> link to
> > >>> >> >>> their
> > >>> >> >>>>> national Web
> > site:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> www.campabilities.org.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> The
> > I C.A.N.
> > >>> >> Foundation helps
> > >>> >> >>> visually
> > >>> >> >>>>> impaired youth
> > in
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Maryland have the
> > >>> ability
> > >>> >> to
> > >>> >> >>> confidently say
> > >>> >> >>>>> "I can!" How?
> > Click
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> on
> > this link to
> > >>> learn more
> > >>> >> and to
> > >>> >> >>>>> contribute:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> www.icanfoundation.info.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> Sent
> > >>> from my
> > >>> >> BrailleNote
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> -----
> > >>> >> Original Message
> > >>> >> >>>>> -----
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > From: Ignasi
> > >>> Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> To:
> > National
> > >>> Association
> > >>> >> of Blind
> > >>> >> >>> Students
> > >>> >> >>>>> mailing list
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> Date
> > sent: Sat,
> > >>> 18 Jun
> > >>> >> 2011 18:51:04
> > >>> >> >>> -0400
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Subject: Re:
> > >>> [nabs-l]
> > >>> >> >>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
> > >>> >> >>>>> Threw Our Eyes
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > interview,Ride
> > >>> into
> > >>> >> History, Race
> > >>> >> >>> for
> > >>> >> >>>>> Independence,
> > Wed.
> > >>> June
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> 22,
> > 8:00 pm EDT
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> This
> > call would
> > >>> be very
> > >>> >> interesting
> > >>> >> >>>>> indeed.
> > If
> > >>> representatives
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> from
> > both
> > >>> organizations
> > >>> >> are willing
> > >>> >> >>> to
> > >>> >> >>>>> participate, it
> > can really
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> be
> > productive in
> > >>> many
> > >>> >> ways.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> On
> > Jun 18, 2011,
> > >>> at 1:46
> > >>> >> PM, Carly
> > >>> >> >>> Mihalakis
> > >>> >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> Good
> > >>> morning,
> > >>> >> list,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> A
> > >>> few days
> > >>> >> ago, someone on
> > >>> >> >>>>> the NABS
> > list suggested
> > >>> a
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > conference
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> call
> > bringing
> > >>> clarity to a
> > >>> >> younger
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > generation. What,
> > >>> exactly, is
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> the
> > history of
> > >>> the
> > >>> >> ideological
> > >>> >> >>> parting of
> > >>> >> >>>>> ways, between
> > the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Federation and
> > >>> the
> > >>> >> Council? Does
> > >>> >> >>> anybody know
> > >>> >> >>>>> today, the
> > history
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> of
> > this division
> > >>> or is it
> > >>> >> a product
> > >>> >> >>> of sheer
> > >>> >> >>>>> habit as is the
> > case
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> with
> > Republicans
> > >>> and
> > >>> >> Democrats? If
> > >>> >> >>> such a
> > >>> >> >>>>> meeting of both
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > entities were to
> > >>> take
> > >>> >> place, There
> > >>> >> >>> ought to
> > >>> >> >>>>> be
> > representation of
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > both
> > >>> organizations
> > >>> >> so that a
> > >>> >> >>> wholistic
> > >>> >> >>>>> portrait of this
> > issue
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> can
> > be
> > >>> exercised.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> and
> > >>> its split
> > >>> >> from the
> > >>> >> >>>>> ACB. This
> > seems like a
> > >>> >> productive and
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > enlightening
> > >>> discussion
> > >>> >> but I
> > >>> >> >>> wonder, if the
> > >>> >> >>>>> Federation and
> > the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > council claim to
> > >>> be
> > >>> >> friends, should
> > >>> >> >>> there not
> > >>> >> >>>>> be
> > representation
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > from
> > >>> >> both sides,
> > identifying
> > >>> >> >>>>> their position
> > and
> > >>> whereabouts
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> they
> > stand, in
> > >>> this? At
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> ----
> > >>> Original
> > >>> >> Message
> > >>> >> >>>>> ------
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> From: "Joe
> > >>> >> Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com>
> > >>> >> >>>>> (by way of
> > David
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> Subject:
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > [Nfbnet-members-list] Thru
> > >>> Our Eyes
> > >>> >> interview,
> > >>> >> >>> Ride
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> into
> > History,Race
> > >>> for
> > >>> >> >>> Independence,
> > >>> >> >>>>> Wed. June
> > 22, 8:00 pm
> > >>> EDT
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> Date
> > >>> sent:
> > >>> >> Fri, 17 Jun 2011
> > >>> >> >>>>> 19:26:45 -0500
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> Save
> > >>> The
> > >>> >> Date:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> On
> > >>> Wednesday,
> > >>> >> June 22,at
> > >>> >> >>>>> 8:00 pm eastern,
> > Thru Our
> > >>> Eyes host,
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> Joe
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> Ruffalo will
> > >>> >> interview
> > >>> >> >>>>> Parnell Diggs,
> > chair of the
> > >>> >> Imagination
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > Fund,
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> Race
> > >>> for
> > >>> >> Independence.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> The
> > >>> interview
> > >>> >> will highlight
> > >>> >> >>>>> current and past
> > grants
> > >>> awarded to
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > state
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> affiliates
> > >>> >> and chapters.
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> In
> > >>> addition,
> > >>> >> featured will
> > >>> >> >>>>> be Imaginators
> > who will share
> > >>> the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > methods
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>> make the
> > >>> >> ask to make a
> > >>> >> >>>>> difference in
> > changing what
> > >>> it means
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> to
> > be blind.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> Special
> > >>> >> highlight of the
> > >>> >> >>>>> interview will
> > be the
> > >>> announcement of
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>> the
> > 30
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> winners who
> > >>> >> will have the
> > >>> >> >>>>> opportunity to
> > be driven by a
> > >>> blind
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > driver
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> while
> > >>> >> attending
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> the
> > >>> national
> > >>> >> convention in
> > >>> >> >>>>> Orlando.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> Witness the
> > >>> >> opportunity to
> > >>> >> >>>>> ride into
> > history!
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> To
> > >>> watch and
> > >>> >> listen to the
> > >>> >> >>>>> interview,
> > please visit the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > following:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> <http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> For
> > >>> JAWS
> > >>> >> users and mobile
> > >>> >> >>>>> phone users,
> > please visit
> > >>> the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > following:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> m.thruoureyes.org
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> Other options
> > >>> >> to watch or
> > >>> >> >>>>> listen can be
> > found on the
> > >>> sites
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > listed above.
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> To
> > >>> call in
> > >>> >> with comments or
> > >>> >> >>>>> questions,
> > please dial the
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > following:
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> 1
> > >>> 888 572
> > >>> >> 0141
> > >>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> Join
> > >>> us to
> > >>> >> Make a
> > >>> >> >>>>> Difference!
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>
> > >>> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> >> >>>>>> nabs-l
> > mailing list
> > >>> >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >>> >> >>>>>> To
> > unsubscribe, change
> > >>> your list
> > >>> >> options or
> > >>> >> >>> get your
> > >>> >> >>>>> account info
> > for
> > >>> >> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> > >>> >> >>>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > >>> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing
> > list
> > >>> >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >>> >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >>> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe,
> > change your
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> > nabs-l:
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> > >>> >> >>>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> > >>> >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> > >>> >> >>>>
> > >>> >> >>>
> > >>> >> >>>
> > >>> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
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> > >>> >> >>
> > >>> >> >>
> > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
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> > >>> >> >
> > >>> >> >
> > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
> > >>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> > _______________________________________________
> > >>> >> nabs-l mailing list
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> > >>> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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