[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Thu Jun 23 17:12:43 UTC 2011


Joshua,

As a conservative, I agree with you in your frustration.  The 
only thing I would disagree with you on is that we can't identify 
paper currency.  Let's see...  the folding system? The Money 
Reader apps? The KNFB Reader?

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near 
you, just click on this link to their national Web site: 
www.campabilities.org.

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in 
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click 
on this link to learn more and to contribute: 
www.icanfoundation.info.

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:51:40 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 
22, 8:00 pm EDT

Anmol, it's amazing that you bring up accessible currency.
What the ACB wants, is Brailled currency.
That isn't going to work.
I have the answer to the problem.
First of all, it's political.
I'm tired of people saying that the conservatives aren't on the 
side
of the blind.
When it comes to currency, they are.
Remember, when Reagan mentioned a return to the gold standard?
Coins are the answer to the problem.
We can identify the coins, by their texture.
We can't do this with paper currency.
That solves the problems with our currency.
This would help everyone, including us.
#1.  You can't inflate, or deflate coins.
#2.  You can't counterfeit coins.
#3, (Here's the thing that will help blind people,) We can 
identify
coins by their texture.
Would there have to be alot of changes made?
Yes, but is it worth it?
Yes!
Blessings, Joshua

On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
 Jessica,
 Good point.  In addition, I would much rather a blind person to 
feel mobil
 even if they don't have good mobility skills and frankly I would 
rather have
 audible street lights then to see a blind person get killed 
because they
 could not figure out how the traffic goes.
 Anmol
 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.  
Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net> 
wrote:

 From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
interview, Ride
 into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:01 PM
 There are certain types of
 intersections where no matter how long you stand there and
 listen to traffic you will never hear a good cycle so in
 those cases I actually support aps.  Just keep that in mind
 when someone talks about every intersection being crossable
 by listening to traffic.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Kirt Manwaring 
<kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 Anmol,
  It's a nice thought.  Maybe it'll be
 possible, some day.  Never say
 never, ri9ght?
  But here's the thing.  The two
 organizations have evolved two
 separate philosophies and mindsets.  I'm doing
 something really bad
 and generalizing.  If anyone who knows more than
 I do wants to correct
 me here, feel free.
  The stance the ACB seems to take more often than
 not is to make the
 environment more accessible for us.  This is
 evidenced by their
 support for audible street signals (which make a lot
 of sense to me,
 I'm not really convinced one way or the other on that
 one yet),
 tactile currency, descriptive movies, the provisions
 in the ADA to
 make ATMs accessible, the 21st century communications
 act, their
 support for Randolph-Shepherd, universal design in
 technology, etc.
 They also use lots of their resources to fight
 descrimination, at
 least it seems that way to me.
  The NFB, on the other hand, seems to more often
 than not advocate us
 adapting to the environment.  This is evidenced
 by the strict
 standards of training centers, pushing braille,
 opposition to the
 tactile currency idea, advocacy of relying on traffic
 rather than
 audible signals (which makes a lot of sense to me),
 our philosophy
 that with the right training and opportunity we can
 compete on an
 equal footing, the idea of the blind driver challenge,
 etc.  Of course
 the NFB sometimes pushes making changes in the
 environment (technology
 bill of rights, Help America Vote Act, and the ADA
 which we also
 supported), and the ACB does advocate for quality
 independence
 training/O&M.  But, those are the rough
 philosophies of the two
 organizations, if we're going by their records.
 Is the ACB wrong?
 No, I don't think so, but the NFB is more of a fit
 with my vision of
 blindness.  I just think thee two separate
 methodoligies willkeep us
 from ever uniting as one group...and that's ok.
 We all have the
 right, even the obligation to advocate for ourselves
 and those we
 represent.  The ACB does it their way, we do it
 ours.  Sometimes there
 is overlap, lots of times our philosophies take us in
 different
 directions and put us on opposite sides of important
 issues.  When our
 aims are the same (or similar), we need to work
 together and present a
 united front.  When we are at odds (which we
 often are, the two
 organizations really are very different), we both have
 the right to
 push our separate agendas and attempt to get our
 policies implimented.
 Sometimes they win, sometimes we win, that's
 politics.  We don't have
 to be bitter about it and, on the personal level, we
 can still be good
 friends even when our politics are at odds.
  Just my thoughts,
 Kirt

 On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Kirt,
 You bring some vary valid points, and yes we have
 beaten the
 democrats/republicans analogy  to death but
 it keeps coming up as a
 comparison, so I will just say one thing about
 this.  I may have already said
 this before on the list, but please furgive me if
 I have.  The blind
 community is a to small of a community to be
 divided on partizen lines like
 democrats and republicans, and our challenges are
 to great to be divided
 like democrats and republicans.  Sure there will be
 differences between
 members of the ACB and members of the NFB on how
 business should be
 conducted, but honestly there differences between
 members of each
 organization on how their organization should do
 business.
 True there were disagreement on how business
 should and leadership issues
 causing the split between the NFB and ACB, I
 consider the leadership issues
 to be pitty differences.  Often when one candidate
 loses, they and their
 supporters go and form their on organization or
 chapter.  This happened at my
 local NFB chapter and as a result we have two NFB
 chapters in a small town.
 Now some may consider this to be a good thing, but
 think about how much more
 we can achieve if we were one NFB chapter in
 Fayetteville in recruiting,
 fund raising and my volunteers for events.  In
 addition, these types of
 childish arguements causes many blind people who
 otherwise may be involved
 in a blind organization to be a "fense sitters".
 Now using this analogy  to
 NFB ACB, ACB does not have near the funds that NFB
 has, but they are not
 poor eather.  Their attendence is not as large at
 the conventions, but it is
 not small eather.  Think if both of these
 organizations were together how
 much more money we would have to do policy that
 each organization does or
 the advocacy work that each  organization
 does, and think about how much
 larger the convention would be.  We would pack two
 hotels full or near full.
 In addition, think about how much venders would be
 giving out in prizes
 because now insteading having to spend money to
 send their workers to two
 convention, they will only have to send their
 workers to one convention.  In
 addition, most venders give out big prizes at each
 convention and if there
 was only one convention, they can give two
 prizes.
 However, you are right in that realistically the
 two organizations will not
 merge any time soon.

 best wishes,
 Anmol
 I seldom think about my limitations, and they
 never make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it
 is vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
 into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
 22, 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:51 PM
 Anmol,
   I don't really see a merger
 happening any time soon,
 nor would I
 want it to.  We've all beaten the
 democrat/republican
 analogy to
 death...but imagine Barack Obama and Mitt
 Romney in the
 same political
 party.  It just wouldn't work.
 There are huge
 differences.  It
 doesn't make the NFB better for everyone, but
 it makes the
 NFB better
 for me.  I have lots of respect for my
 friends in the
 ACB who stand up
 and fight for their agenda.  Lots of the
 times, it's
 the same as mine.
 When it's not, we can talk without being
 jackasses to each
 other and,
 in a lot of cases, the disagreement actually
 strengthens
 our
 friendship.
   I say diversity is good,
 competition is good, we
 need a free market
 of ideas.  I respect ACB and the sincere
 people there
 trying to make
 the lives of blind people better.  I
 happen to find
 the Federation
 philosophy and method more meaningful for
 me.  I want
 to understand
 the split.  From the little bit of
 studying I've done,
 I don't really
 think it was petty personal differences but
 rather
 differing
 philosophies about methodology and leadership
 that drove
 the two
 groups to separate.  We can be different
 without being
 petty.  We can
 disagree without being bigots.  When our
 two
 organizations come down
 on opposite sides of important issues, as we
 often do, we
 need not be
 arrogant or self-rightious because we think
 we're
 right.  The fact is,
 we disagree.  And I think the
 disagreements are too
 central to our
 respective organizations for us to ever become
 one.
 But that doesn't
 mean we can't be friends, especially on a
 personal level.
   Best,
 Kirt

 On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Kirt,
 You are bringing up some vary good
 points...
 Understanding the history of
 the NFB and ACB is an import part in the
 history in
 the blind movement and
 an important part in the history of two
 organizations.
 Frankly in it is just
 my oppinion both organizations bring value
 and have
 and continue to make a
 difference for blind people across America
 on a daily
 bases.  It is a shame
 that this split happened and just maybe
 the next
 generation of blind
 individuals our generation or those who
 are younger
 then can bring the two
 organizations together once again.  Now
 this is just my
 translation and my
 oppinion, but  it seems to me that
 the NFB ACB
 split happened over pitty
 differences and two individuals with
 different ideas
 fighting for power.  It
 seems to me that the hate the two
 organizations have
 towards each other is
 not as strong amongest this generation.
 Infact many
 members of NABS of ACB
 and NABS of NFB are friends in life and
 attack on the
 other organization is
   usually not allow on each
 organization's mailing
 list.
 Dave, you are right that ACB does not have
 the same
 amount of people
 attending its' convention, but their
 attendence is not
 small eather.  I would
 guess 1500 attend the ACB convention and
 all the major
 venders who attend
 the NFB convention attend the ACB
 convention.  There
 are also quite a few
 young people who attend the ACB
 convention.
 Yes ACB does its' business different then
 NFB, but
 thats why they are a
 different organization.  However, this does
 not make
 them any worse or better
 then the NFB.
 Just my thoughts and it would be great if
 we keep the
 attacks on each
 organization to as less as possible.

 Anmol


 I seldom think about my limitations, and
 they never
 make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at
 times; but it is
 vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
 Our Eyes interview, Ride
 into History, Race for Independence,
 Wed.  June 22,
 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind
 Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 12:25
 PM
 Dave,
   How long ago was
 this?  Things could've
 changed
 since you last went
 if it's been a while, maybe?
 And, with respect,
 this
 is a big deal to
 a lot of us.  I know for me it's
 a lot more than
 a
 "small
 consideration", I like to know the
 past as much as
 I can
 because it
 shaped the here and now.  I can
 read the books
 put out
 by each
 organization-they probably both have
 lots of the
 truth
 intermingled
 with their respective agendas.
 But nothing
 beats
 talking to people
 who have studied the issues or,
 preferably, people
 who were
 actually
 there.
   All the best,
 Kirt

 On 6/21/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
 wrote:
 The two biggest things I noticed
 at an ACB
 national
 convention were
 that the crowd was considerably
 smaller than
 that at a
 NFB convention
 -- less exhibits etc.  too.
 The second
 things was
 that there were few
 young persons -- some but
 noticeably not
 very
 many.  One of the major
 things that the ACB has pushed in
 the past is
 that it
 is different
 from the NFB, it does things
 differently
 etc.
 This doesn't really
 matter to younger people though,
 so they have
 little
 reason to join, so
 don't.

 You guys can spend lots of time on
 the
 history, and
 differences if
 you want -- but what is the
 point.  It
 happened,
 it is over with and
 done.  Yes we can and should
 learn from our
 history, but it is just
 one small consideration.

 Dave

 At 11:32 AM 6/20/2011, you wrote:
 Dave,
    I do see your
 point.  Those
 alive at the time are not, and will
 probabluy never be
 friends.  Heck,
 getting
 them to actually talk in
 peace would be the achievement
 of the
 century!   if such a
 call were
 to hypothetically happen, how
 could we
 keep it from
 opening old wounds
 and stoking old fires?
    Best,
 Kirt

 On 6/20/11, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:
 Dave,

 Our joint conference call
 isn't
 associated
 whatsoever with the
 proposition of a change in
 the NFB
 bylaw.  If I'm setting this
 up, which it appears I am,
 I didn't
 even have
 the intention of
 mentioning that
 proposition on the
 call.  The call's purpose is
 to learn the history of
 the NFB/ACB,
 with a
 little emphasis on
 the "civil war" period,
 from both
 sides so we
 are informed.  I
 also want this call to
 start a
 discussion on
 the history of our
 movement and what we can
 learn from
 it, not
 only as
 Federationists, but as
 blind
 students.
 Jorge and I have found
 some ways that we can hold
 the call
 without
 making it a NABS
 membership call, if it is
 entirely
 necessary.  And as to your
 comments about them not
 being our
 friends,
 then using your
 argument, the Republicans
 should not
 hear the
 Democrats point of
 view in meetings of
 Congress, but
 the two
 parties should be
 separated from each other
 for fear
 of their
 own side being
 attacked.  We can
 keep our same
 opinions, and probably many
 Federationists and Council
 members
 who attend
 this call will.
 This is just a way that we
 can be
 more
 informed when forming
 these opinions.

   Chris

 "A loss of sight, never a
 loss of
 vision!"
 (Camp Abilities motto)
 To learn more about Camp
 Abilities
 and find a
 local camp near
 you, just click on this
 link to
 their
 national Web site:
 www.campabilities.org.

 The I C.A.N.
 Foundation helps
 visually
 impaired youth in
 Maryland have the ability
 to
 confidently say
 "I can!" How? Click
 on this link to learn more
 and to
 contribute:
 www.icanfoundation.info.

   Sent from
 my BrailleNote

   -----
 Original Message -----
 From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
 To: National Association
 of Blind
 Students
 mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sun, 19 Jun
 2011 20:39:01
 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes
 interview,Ride into
 History, Race
 for
 Independence, Wed.  June
 22, 8:00 pm EDT

 Chris:

 I don't want to friend
 anyone -- but
 I think
 this is a terrible
 idea!  Remember the
 ACB split off
 from
 the NFB because they
 thought
 that we were all wrong,
 did our
 business in
 the wrong way etc.  I
 am
 not going to say that we
 can't learn
 anything
 from the ACB, but
 not a
 history lesson.  I
 was at a ACb
 National
 Convention a few years
 ago
 -- and heard the NFB
 attacked openly
 and
 indirectly.  These folks
 are
 not our friends.  We
 can work
 jointly at
 times, and should, and I
 don't think we should be
 against
 them, for
 the sake of it, as
 some of
 my old-timer friends are
 -- but a
 joint
 conference call on
 consideration of a change
 to a NFB
 division
 bylaw is going to
 far!

 Dave

 At 12:53 PM 6/19/2011, you
 wrote:
 Kirt,

 I have a friend in the
 Council that
 I will
 see Monday night, so I
 plan to give this idea to
 him and
 ask if he
 knows someone in the
 Council that would be
 knowledgeable
 enough
 and willing to attend
 this call on behalf of the
 Council
 as an
 expert on their history.
 Maybe it would be better
 if someone
 like me
 moderated.  Keep in
 mind
 that I did volunteer, but
 I'm not
 degrading
 anyone else, I'm just
 using myself as an example
 here.
 I'm a
 member of the Federation,
 but I'm not a hard-line
 "NFB is
 good, ACB
 bad" person, so I
 wouldn't
 show any bias to NFB or
 ACB.  I
 also am
 not currently a
 contributing
 (due-paying) member of
 NABS, so I'm
 not a
 leader in it of
 course.  That way, we
 wouldn't have
 any
 bias.
 I think it would be easy
 to have it
 jointly
 attended even if it's
 an
 official NABS call.
 If we have a
 representative of ACB on the
 call,
 we could probably easily
 get other
 members of
 ACB on the call to
 kind of back up or add to
 that
 guest
 speaker's information.
 Thoughts?

 Chris

 "A loss of sight, never a
 loss of
 vision!"
 (Camp Abilities motto)
 To learn more about Camp
 Abilities
 and find a
 local camp near
 you,
 just click on this link to
 their
 national Web
 site:
 www.campabilities.org.

 The I C.A.N.
 Foundation helps
 visually
 impaired youth in
 Maryland
 have the ability to
 confidently say
 "I can!"
 How? Click on this
 link
 to learn more and to
 contribute:
 www.icanfoundation.info.

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message
 -----
 From: Kirt Manwaring
 <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 To: National Association
 of Blind
 Students
 mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sun, 19 Jun
 2011 00:45:08
 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes
 interview,Ride into
 History, Race
 for
 Independence, Wed.  June
 22, 8:00 pm EDT

 Carley,
    The two
 organizations don't
 really claim to be "friends" as
 such-it
 seems like now they just
 mostly
 ignore each
 other, work jointly
 when
 their agendas converge and
 play
 politics when
 they don't.  Maybe
 they
 aren't enemies, but the
 official
 organizations don't really
 advertise
 themselves as friends.
    While it
 would be great to
 have people from both organizations
 participate in a joint
 call, I don't
 see it
 happening.  Here's
 hoping
 though, I guess  It's
 certainly a
 nice
 thought-although, if the
 call
 were to have presentations
 from
 members of
 both organizations, it
 probably should be jointly
 moderated
 and
 attended.  The NFB (or
 probably even NABS) would,
 I'm
 betting, not
 be inclined to go
 there.
 So maybe we'll have better
 luck
 going through
 unnoficial channels
 and
 setting this up on our
 own?  No
 need to
 make it an official event
 for
 either the Federation or
 the
 Council-I think
 it's safe to say
 that
 idea was doomed to fail
 before it
 was brought
 up.
    Best,
 Kirt

 On 6/18/11, Chris Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:
 And, as I said before, I
 would be
 very
 willing to moderate this
 call.  Please keep me
 posted!

    Chris

 "A loss of sight, never a
 loss of
 vision!"
 (Camp Abilities motto)
 To learn more about Camp
 Abilities
 and find a
 local camp near
 you, just click on this
 link to
 their
 national Web site:
 www.campabilities.org.

 The I C.A.N.
 Foundation helps
 visually
 impaired youth in
 Maryland have the ability
 to
 confidently say
 "I can!" How? Click
 on this link to learn more
 and to
 contribute:
 www.icanfoundation.info.

    Sent from my
 BrailleNote

    -----
 Original Message
 -----
 From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
 To: National Association
 of Blind
 Students
 mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sat, 18 Jun
 2011 18:51:04
 -0400
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes
 interview,Ride into
 History, Race
 for
 Independence, Wed.  June
 22, 8:00 pm EDT

 This call would be very
 interesting
 indeed.  If representatives
 from both organizations
 are willing
 to
 participate, it can really
 be productive in many
 ways.
 On Jun 18, 2011, at 1:46
 PM, Carly
 Mihalakis
 wrote:



    Good morning,
 list,

    A few days
 ago, someone on
 the NABS list  suggested a
 conference
 call bringing clarity to a
 younger
 generation.  What, exactly, is
 the history of the
 ideological
 parting of
 ways, between the
 Federation and the
 Council? Does
 anybody know
 today, the history
 of this division or is it
 a product
 of sheer
 habit as is the case
 with Republicans and
 Democrats? If
 such a
 meeting of both
 entities were to take
 place, There
 ought to
 be representation of
 both organizations
 so that a
 wholistic
 portrait of this issue
 can be exercised.

    and its split
 from the
 ACB.  This seems like a
 productive and
 enlightening discussion
 but I
 wonder, if the
 Federation and the
 council claim to be
 friends, should
 there not
 be representation
 from
 both   sides, identifying
 their position and whereabouts
 they stand, in this? At
    ---- Original
 Message
 ------
    From: "Joe
 Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com
 (by way of David
 Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)
    Subject:
 [Nfbnet-members-list] Thru Our Eyes
 interview,
 Ride
 into History,Race for
 Independence,
 Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
    Date sent:
 Fri, 17 Jun 2011
 19:26:45 -0500


    Save The
 Date:

    On Wednesday,
 June 22,at
 8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our Eyes host,
 Joe
    Ruffalo will
 interview
 Parnell Diggs, chair of the
 Imagination
 Fund,
    Race for
 Independence.

    The interview
 will highlight
 current and past grants awarded to
 state
    affiliates
 and chapters.
    In addition,
 featured will
 be Imaginators who will share the
 methods
    to make the
 ask to make a
 difference in changing what it means
 to be blind.

    Special
 highlight of the
 interview will be the announcement of
 the 30
    winners who
 will have the
 opportunity to be driven by a blind
 driver
    while
 attending
    the national
 convention in
 Orlando.

    Witness the
 opportunity to
 ride into history!

    To watch and
 listen to the
 interview, please visit the
 following:
    <http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org

    For JAWS
 users and mobile
 phone users, please visit the
 following:


 m.thruoureyes.org

    Other options
 to watch or
 listen can be found on the sites
 listed above.

    To call in
 with comments or
 questions, please dial the
 following:
    1 888 572
 0141
    Join us to
 Make a
 Difference!






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