[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Thu Jun 23 21:02:58 UTC 2011
Haha, and would it be at all possible for me not to make typing
errors? Definitely not. *grin*
On 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris,
> I don't mean to be a jerk, but pretty much everything you just said
> has been said before by others on this thread. Would it be at all
> possible for yoju to look at all the messages on a thread before you
> reply, or is that not feasible on an Apex?
> Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/23/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> One of the things I like about LookTell vs EyeNote is that the
>> LookTell Reader uses the camera and automatically takes a picture
>> of the currency. But on the EyeNote app, you have to snap a
>> picture before it recognizes the currency. This is something
>> that I didn't like about the KNFB Reader Classic when I tried it
>> out. Sure, the EyeNote is free, but come on... if you can
>> afford an iPhone or iPod Touch, you can afford the $2.00 for the
>> app.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>> To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
>> you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
>> www.campabilities.org.
>>
>> The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
>> Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
>> on this link to learn more and to contribute:
>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:26:52 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> Na, if we're talking about solutions for accessible currencyk,
>> we're
>> still on topic. If you're using an iOS device, you can get Inote
>> which is free or pay 2 dollars and get looktell money reader
>> which is
>> easier to use.
>>
>> On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Can you explain offlist, please? I'm afraid we might be getting
>> too offtopic if we keep it on.
>> Best,
>> Josh
>>
>> sent from my Apex
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:59:55 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> Yeah, but looktell is better.
>>
>> On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oh, so that's the one I heard about. The pay one, that is. So
>> EyeNote's free. Thanks Jessica!
>> Best,
>> Josh
>>
>> sent from my Apex
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:36:04 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> Josh, eyeNote is free. The other I speak of is looktell money
>> reader. It is 2 dollars.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 22, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Jessica. There's another one? EyeNote is what I was
>> talking
>> about, but I didn't know there was another one. Do you by any
>> chance know it's name?
>> Best,
>> Josh
>> PS: Eyenote's free? Thought you had to pay for it. Well, we
>> learn something new every day. (smile)
>>
>> sent from my Apex
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jessica Silva <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> actually there is the one he speaks of but also there is the
>> one
>> made by the US treasury. it's called eyeNote and it's free.
>>
>> On Wed Jun 22nd, 2011 3:39 PM MDT Josh Gregory wrote:
>>
>> They've got an ap to help with identifying money for I O S
>> devices, that was mentioned on this list before I think. I
>> have
>> heard it's only 2 bucks but that it works well. It might be in
>> the ap store, but not having a device to check on, I'm not
>> sure.
>> Best,
>> Josh
>>
>> sent from my Apex
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:11:10 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> Hello, but what happens if I have a bill in my hand and I want
>> to know what
>> it is, but there is not a single sighted soul to tell me what
>> it
>> is? I know
>> is a free alternative but, is it truly worth it? And, what if
>> that sighted
>> person lies about the amount of money that is on the bill?
>> I would probably support ideas like the KNFB reader and the
>> iBill identifier
>> if they were even cheaper. If they were so, I would buy one
>> or
>> the other,
>> but so far, I can not afford either one.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Kirt Manwaring
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview, Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm
>> EDT
>>
>> Joshua,
>> Valid points. I've got a solution for you that doesn't cost a
>> thing. Get a sighted person you trust to tell you what your
>> bills are
>> when you get them, and fold them so you can identify them in
>> the
>> future. Inconvenient, maybe...but hey, if we're going to fit
>> in
>> to
>> the world we've got to put up with some annoyances.
>> BTW, what's wrong with a 20 cell display? Not ideal maybe
>> but,
>> hey,
>> maybe a rehab counselor would be more willing to get something
>> with
>> that much of a price reduction as compared to a 40 cell. I
>> used
>> a
>> 20-cell PAC mate all through High School, an 18-cell Apex for
>> my
>> first
>> year of college, and the shorter displays work fine.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> wrote:
>> This is what Allan Ramos told me.
>> He was a trainee at LWSB, when I was there.
>> He's a member of the CCB, (California Council of the Blind,)
>> (not to
>> be confused with Colorado Center for the Blind.)
>> I'm going on what he said.
>> Paper currency in the US, started with Andrew Jackson.
>> Glenn Beck talks about this in great deal, in his book,
>> "Growth."
>> I've heard, that the debit cards are an alternative, but we
>> don't have
>> such a system, that is accessible to us, in my small town.
>> It's either what I suggested, or we should ask the NFB to push
>> the
>> companies that make accessible technologies, to make their
>> technology
>> affordable for all blind citizens, that need it.
>> That's my problem with the Blind Driver Challenge, (for
>> example.)
>> They will make this car, but they have to charge an obseen
>> amount of
>> money, for it.
>> I'm not going to be able to afford it.
>> I can't afford a Pac Mate, with a 32 cell Braille display, and
>> my
>> state won't purchase it, for my schooling.
>> I'm bringing this up, because, (back to the currency,) the
>> IBill
>> costs
>> $100.
>> The IBill, (I felt of one at convention last year,) is as
>> small
>> as a
>> giga-pet.
>> I got one of those, for $5, when I was a child!
>> Why would I pay $100 for something that small?
>> Make it affordable!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Josh,
>> Your idea to have only coins is a good idea, but not
>> realistic.
>> Can you
>> see
>> a 50 dollar coin or even 20 dollar coin? Paper currency has
>> been
>> and will
>> always be a fabric of this country as it is in every country.
>> Which
>> country
>> has only coins and know paper currency?
>> I do not believe, but I could be wrong and please correct me,
>> but I do
>> not
>> think that ACB is advocating only braille notes. From my
>> understanding
>> they
>> have been advocating a form of paper currency which is
>> accessible and
>> afordable. Ovisily braille is not the most afordable means to
>> make paper
>> currency accessible.
>>
>> Anmol
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>> sad.
>> Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> like a
>> breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Joshua Lester
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,
>> Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm
>> EDT
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:51 PM
>> Anmol, it's amazing that you bring up
>> accessible currency.
>> What the ACB wants, is Brailled currency.
>> That isn't going to work.
>> I have the answer to the problem.
>> First of all, it's political.
>> I'm tired of people saying that the conservatives aren't on
>> the side
>> of the blind.
>> When it comes to currency, they are.
>> Remember, when Reagan mentioned a return to the gold
>> standard?
>> Coins are the answer to the problem.
>> We can identify the coins, by their texture.
>> We can't do this with paper currency.
>> That solves the problems with our currency.
>> This would help everyone, including us.
>> #1. You can't inflate, or deflate coins.
>> #2. You can't counterfeit coins.
>> #3, (Here's the thing that will help blind people,) We can
>> identify
>> coins by their texture.
>> Would there have to be alot of changes made?
>> Yes, but is it worth it?
>> Yes!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>> Jessica,
>> Good point. In addition, I would much rather a blind
>> person to feel mobil
>> even if they don't have good mobility skills and
>> frankly I would rather have
>> audible street lights then to see a blind person get
>> killed because they
>> could not figure out how the traffic goes.
>> Anmol
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>> vague, like a breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
>> 8:00 pm EDT
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:01 PM
>> There are certain types of
>> intersections where no matter how long you stand
>> there and
>> listen to traffic you will never hear a good cycle
>> so in
>> those cases I actually support aps. Just keep that
>> in mind
>> when someone talks about every intersection being
>> crossable
>> by listening to traffic.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Kirt Manwaring
>> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Anmol,
>> It's a nice thought. Maybe it'll
>> be
>> possible, some day. Never say
>> never, ri9ght?
>> But here's the thing. The two
>> organizations have evolved two
>> separate philosophies and mindsets. I'm
>> doing
>> something really bad
>> and generalizing. If anyone who knows
>> more than
>> I do wants to correct
>> me here, feel free.
>> The stance the ACB seems to take more
>> often than
>> not is to make the
>> environment more accessible for us.
>> This is
>> evidenced by their
>> support for audible street signals (which
>> make a lot
>> of sense to me,
>> I'm not really convinced one way or the other
>> on that
>> one yet),
>> tactile currency, descriptive movies, the
>> provisions
>> in the ADA to
>> make ATMs accessible, the 21st century
>> communications
>> act, their
>> support for Randolph-Shepherd, universal
>> design in
>> technology, etc.
>> They also use lots of their resources to
>> fight
>> descrimination, at
>> least it seems that way to me.
>> The NFB, on the other hand, seems to
>> more often
>> than not advocate us
>> adapting to the environment. This is
>> evidenced
>> by the strict
>> standards of training centers, pushing
>> braille,
>> opposition to the
>> tactile currency idea, advocacy of relying on
>> traffic
>> rather than
>> audible signals (which makes a lot of sense
>> to me),
>> our philosophy
>> that with the right training and opportunity
>> we can
>> compete on an
>> equal footing, the idea of the blind driver
>> challenge,
>> etc. Of course
>> the NFB sometimes pushes making changes in
>> the
>> environment (technology
>> bill of rights, Help America Vote Act, and
>> the ADA
>> which we also
>> supported), and the ACB does advocate for
>> quality
>> independence
>> training/O&M. But, those are the
>> rough
>> philosophies of the two
>> organizations, if we're going by their
>> records.
>> Is the ACB wrong?
>> No, I don't think so, but the NFB is more of
>> a fit
>> with my vision of
>> blindness. I just think thee two
>> separate
>> methodoligies willkeep us
>> from ever uniting as one group...and that's
>> ok.
>> We all have the
>> right, even the obligation to advocate for
>> ourselves
>> and those we
>> represent. The ACB does it their way,
>> we do it
>> ours. Sometimes there
>> is overlap, lots of times our philosophies
>> take us in
>> different
>> directions and put us on opposite sides of
>> important
>> issues. When our
>> aims are the same (or similar), we need to
>> work
>> together and present a
>> united front. When we are at odds
>> (which we
>> often are, the two
>> organizations really are very different), we
>> both have
>> the right to
>> push our separate agendas and attempt to get
>> our
>> policies implimented.
>> Sometimes they win, sometimes we win, that's
>> politics. We don't have
>> to be bitter about it and, on the personal
>> level, we
>> can still be good
>> friends even when our politics are at odds.
>> Just my thoughts,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>> You bring some vary valid points, and yes
>> we have
>> beaten the
>> democrats/republicans analogy to
>> death but
>> it keeps coming up as a
>> comparison, so I will just say one thing
>> about
>> this. I may have already said
>> this before on the list, but please
>> furgive me if
>> I have. The blind
>> community is a to small of a community to
>> be
>> divided on partizen lines like
>> democrats and republicans, and our
>> challenges are
>> to great to be divided
>> like democrats and republicans. Sure
>> there will be
>> differences between
>> members of the ACB and members of the NFB
>> on how
>> business should be
>> conducted, but honestly there differences
>> between
>> members of each
>> organization on how their organization
>> should do
>> business.
>> True there were disagreement on how
>> business
>> should and leadership issues
>> causing the split between the NFB and
>> ACB, I
>> consider the leadership issues
>> to be pitty differences. Often when one
>> candidate
>> loses, they and their
>> supporters go and form their on
>> organization or
>> chapter. This happened at my
>> local NFB chapter and as a result we have
>> two NFB
>> chapters in a small town.
>> Now some may consider this to be a good
>> thing, but
>> think about how much more
>> we can achieve if we were one NFB chapter
>> in
>> Fayetteville in recruiting,
>> fund raising and my volunteers for
>> events. In
>> addition, these types of
>> childish arguements causes many blind
>> people who
>> otherwise may be involved
>> in a blind organization to be a "fense
>> sitters".
>> Now using this analogy to
>> NFB ACB, ACB does not have near the funds
>> that NFB
>> has, but they are not
>> poor eather. Their attendence is not as
>> large at
>> the conventions, but it is
>> not small eather. Think if both of these
>> organizations were together how
>> much more money we would have to do
>> policy that
>> each organization does or
>> the advocacy work that each
>> organization
>> does, and think about how much
>> larger the convention would be. We would
>> pack two
>> hotels full or near full.
>> In addition, think about how much venders
>> would be
>> giving out in prizes
>> because now insteading having to spend
>> money to
>> send their workers to two
>> convention, they will only have to send
>> their
>> workers to one convention. In
>> addition, most venders give out big
>> prizes at each
>> convention and if there
>> was only one convention, they can give
>> two
>> prizes.
>> However, you are right in that
>> realistically the
>> two organizations will not
>> merge any time soon.
>>
>> best wishes,
>> Anmol
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and
>> they
>> never make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at
>> times; but it
>> is vague, like a breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring
>> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>> Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> into History, Race for Independence,
>> Wed. June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> To: "National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:51
>> PM
>> Anmol,
>> I don't really see a
>> merger
>> happening any time soon,
>> nor would I
>> want it to. We've all beaten
>> the
>> democrat/republican
>> analogy to
>> death...but imagine Barack Obama and
>> Mitt
>> Romney in the
>> same political
>> party. It just wouldn't work.
>> There are huge
>> differences. It
>> doesn't make the NFB better for
>> everyone, but
>> it makes the
>> NFB better
>> for me. I have lots of respect
>> for my
>> friends in the
>> ACB who stand up
>> and fight for their agenda.
>> Lots of the
>> times, it's
>> the same as mine.
>> When it's not, we can talk without
>> being
>> jackasses to each
>> other and,
>> in a lot of cases, the disagreement
>> actually
>> strengthens
>> our
>> friendship.
>> I say diversity is
>> good,
>> competition is good, we
>> need a free market
>> of ideas. I respect ACB and the
>> sincere
>> people there
>> trying to make
>> the lives of blind people
>> better. I
>> happen to find
>> the Federation
>> philosophy and method more meaningful
>> for
>> me. I want
>> to understand
>> the split. From the little bit
>> of
>> studying I've done,
>> I don't really
>> think it was petty personal
>> differences but
>> rather
>> differing
>> philosophies about methodology and
>> leadership
>> that drove
>> the two
>> groups to separate. We can be
>> different
>> without being
>> petty. We can
>> disagree without being bigots.
>> When our
>> two
>> organizations come down
>> on opposite sides of important
>> issues, as we
>> often do, we
>> need not be
>> arrogant or self-rightious because we
>> think
>> we're
>> right. The fact is,
>> we disagree. And I think the
>> disagreements are too
>> central to our
>> respective organizations for us to
>> ever become
>> one.
>> But that doesn't
>> mean we can't be friends, especially
>> on a
>> personal level.
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>> You are bringing up some vary
>> good
>> points...
>> Understanding the history of
>> the NFB and ACB is an import part
>> in the
>> history in
>> the blind movement and
>> an important part in the history
>> of two
>> organizations.
>> Frankly in it is just
>> my oppinion both organizations
>> bring value
>> and have
>> and continue to make a
>> difference for blind people
>> across America
>> on a daily
>> bases. It is a shame
>> that this split happened and just
>> maybe
>> the next
>> generation of blind
>> individuals our generation or
>> those who
>> are younger
>> then can bring the two
>> organizations together once
>> again. Now
>> this is just my
>> translation and my
>> oppinion, but it seems to
>> me that
>> the NFB ACB
>> split happened over pitty
>> differences and two individuals
>> with
>> different ideas
>> fighting for power. It
>> seems to me that the hate the
>> two
>> organizations have
>> towards each other is
>> not as strong amongest this
>> generation.
>> Infact many
>> members of NABS of ACB
>> and NABS of NFB are friends in
>> life and
>> attack on the
>> other organization is
>> usually not
>> allow on each
>> organization's mailing
>> list.
>> Dave, you are right that ACB does
>> not have
>> the same
>> amount of people
>> attending its' convention, but
>> their
>> attendence is not
>> small eather. I would
>> guess 1500 attend the ACB
>> convention and
>> all the major
>> venders who attend
>> the NFB convention attend the
>> ACB
>> convention. There
>> are also quite a few
>> young people who attend the ACB
>> convention.
>> Yes ACB does its' business
>> different then
>> NFB, but
>> thats why they are a
>> different organization. However,
>> this does
>> not make
>> them any worse or better
>> then the NFB.
>> Just my thoughts and it would be
>> great if
>> we keep the
>> attacks on each
>> organization to as less as
>> possible.
>>
>> Anmol
>>
>>
>> I seldom think about my
>> limitations, and
>> they never
>> make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning
>> at
>> times; but it is
>> vague, like a breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt
>> Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> into History, Race for
>> Independence,
>> Wed. June 22,
>> 8:00 pm EDT
>> To: "National Association of
>> Blind
>> Students
>> mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011,
>> 12:25
>> PM
>> Dave,
>> How long ago
>> was
>> this? Things could've
>> changed
>> since you last went
>> if it's been a while, maybe?
>> And, with respect,
>> this
>> is a big deal to
>> a lot of us. I know for
>> me it's
>> a lot more than
>> a
>> "small
>> consideration", I like to
>> know the
>> past as much as
>> I can
>> because it
>> shaped the here and
>> now. I can
>> read the books
>> put out
>> by each
>> organization-they probably
>> both have
>> lots of the
>> truth
>> intermingled
>> with their respective
>> agendas.
>> But nothing
>> beats
>> talking to people
>> who have studied the issues
>> or,
>> preferably, people
>> who were
>> actually
>> there.
>> All the
>> best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/21/11, David Andrews
>> <dandrews at visi.com
>> wrote:
>> The two biggest things I
>> noticed
>> at an ACB
>> national
>> convention were
>> that the crowd was
>> considerably
>> smaller than
>> that at a
>> NFB convention
>> -- less exhibits etc.
>> too.
>> The second
>> things was
>> that there were few
>> young persons -- some
>> but
>> noticeably not
>> very
>> many. One of the major
>> things that the ACB has
>> pushed in
>> the past is
>> that it
>> is different
>> from the NFB, it does
>> things
>> differently
>> etc.
>> This doesn't really
>> matter to younger people
>> though,
>> so they have
>> little
>> reason to join, so
>> don't.
>>
>> You guys can spend lots
>> of time on
>> the
>> history, and
>> differences if
>> you want -- but what is
>> the
>> point. It
>> happened,
>> it is over with and
>> done. Yes we can
>> and should
>> learn from our
>> history, but it is just
>> one small consideration.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 11:32 AM 6/20/2011,
>> you wrote:
>> Dave,
>> I do see
>> your
>> point. Those
>> alive at the time are not,
>> and will
>> probabluy never be
>> friends. Heck,
>> getting
>> them to actually talk in
>> peace would be the
>> achievement
>> of the
>> century! if
>> such a
>> call were
>> to hypothetically
>> happen, how
>> could we
>> keep it from
>> opening old wounds
>> and stoking old
>> fires?
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/20/11, Chris
>> Nusbaum
>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> Dave,
>>
>> Our joint
>> conference call
>> isn't
>> associated
>> whatsoever with the
>> proposition of a
>> change in
>> the NFB
>> bylaw. If I'm setting
>> this
>> up, which it
>> appears I am,
>> I didn't
>> even have
>> the intention of
>> mentioning that
>> proposition on the
>> call. The call's
>> purpose is
>> to learn the
>> history of
>> the NFB/ACB,
>> with a
>> little emphasis on
>> the "civil war"
>> period,
>> from both
>> sides so we
>> are informed. I
>> also want this
>> call to
>> start a
>> discussion on
>> the history of our
>> movement and what
>> we can
>> learn from
>> it, not
>> only as
>> Federationists,
>> but as
>> blind
>> students.
>> Jorge and I have found
>> some ways that we
>> can hold
>> the call
>> without
>> making it a NABS
>> membership call,
>> if it is
>> entirely
>> necessary. And as to
>> your
>> comments about
>> them not
>> being our
>> friends,
>> then using your
>> argument, the
>> Republicans
>> should not
>> hear the
>> Democrats point of
>> view in meetings
>> of
>> Congress, but
>> the two
>> parties should be
>> separated from
>> each other
>> for fear
>> of their
>> own side being
>> attacked.
>> We can
>> keep our same
>> opinions, and probably many
>> Federationists
>> and Council
>> members
>> who attend
>> this call will.
>> This is just a
>> way that we
>> can be
>> more
>> informed when forming
>> these opinions.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "A loss of sight,
>> never a
>> loss of
>> vision!"
>> (Camp Abilities motto)
>> To learn more
>> about Camp
>> Abilities
>> and find a
>> local camp near
>> you, just click
>> on this
>> link to
>> their
>> national Web site:
>>
>> www.campabilities.org.
>>
>> The I C.A.N.
>> Foundation helps
>> visually
>> impaired youth in
>> Maryland have the
>> ability
>> to
>> confidently say
>> "I can!" How? Click
>> on this link to
>> learn more
>> and to
>> contribute:
>>
>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>
>>
>> Sent from
>> my BrailleNote
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Original Message -----
>> From: David
>> Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
>> To: National
>> Association
>> of Blind
>> Students
>> mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun,
>> 19 Jun
>> 2011 20:39:01
>> -0500
>> Subject: Re:
>> [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>> Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride
>> into
>> History, Race
>> for
>> Independence, Wed.
>> June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> Chris:
>>
>> I don't want to
>> friend
>> anyone -- but
>> I think
>> this is a terrible
>> idea!
>> Remember the
>> ACB split off
>> from
>> the NFB because they
>> thought
>> that we were all
>> wrong,
>> did our
>> business in
>> the wrong way etc. I
>> am
>> not going to say
>> that we
>> can't learn
>> anything
>> from the ACB, but
>> not a
>> history
>> lesson. I
>> was at a ACb
>> National
>> Convention a few years
>> ago
>> -- and heard the
>> NFB
>> attacked openly
>> and
>> indirectly. These
>> folks
>> are
>> not our
>> friends. We
>> can work
>> jointly at
>> times, and should, and I
>> don't think we
>> should be
>> against
>> them, for
>> the sake of it, as
>> some of
>> my old-timer
>> friends are
>> -- but a
>> joint
>> conference call on
>> consideration of
>> a change
>> to a NFB
>> division
>> bylaw is going to
>> far!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 12:53 PM
>> 6/19/2011, you
>> wrote:
>> Kirt,
>>
>> I have a friend
>> in the
>> Council that
>> I will
>> see Monday night, so I
>> plan to give this
>> idea to
>> him and
>> ask if he
>> knows someone in the
>> Council that
>> would be
>> knowledgeable
>> enough
>> and willing to attend
>> this call on
>> behalf of the
>> Council
>> as an
>> expert on their history.
>> Maybe it would be
>> better
>> if someone
>> like me
>> moderated. Keep in
>> mind
>> that I did
>> volunteer, but
>> I'm not
>> degrading
>> anyone else, I'm just
>> using myself as
>> an example
>> here.
>> I'm a
>> member of the Federation,
>> but I'm not a
>> hard-line
>> "NFB is
>> good, ACB
>> bad" person, so I
>> wouldn't
>> show any bias to
>> NFB or
>> ACB. I
>> also am
>> not currently a
>> contributing
>> (due-paying)
>> member of
>> NABS, so I'm
>> not a
>> leader in it of
>> course.
>> That way, we
>> wouldn't have
>> any
>> bias.
>> I think it would
>> be easy
>> to have it
>> jointly
>> attended even if it's
>> an
>> official NABS
>> call.
>> If we have a
>> representative of ACB on the
>> call,
>> we could probably
>> easily
>> get other
>> members of
>> ACB on the call to
>> kind of back up
>> or add to
>> that
>> guest
>> speaker's information.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "A loss of sight,
>> never a
>> loss of
>> vision!"
>> (Camp Abilities motto)
>> To learn more
>> about Camp
>> Abilities
>> and find a
>> local camp near
>> you,
>> just click on
>> this link to
>> their
>> national Web
>> site:
>>
>> www.campabilities.org.
>>
>> The I C.A.N.
>> Foundation helps
>> visually
>> impaired youth in
>> Maryland
>> have the ability
>> to
>> confidently say
>> "I can!"
>> How? Click on this
>> link
>> to learn more and
>> to
>> contribute:
>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>
>> Sent from my
>> BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original
>> Message
>> -----
>> From: Kirt
>> Manwaring
>> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> To: National
>> Association
>> of Blind
>> Students
>> mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun,
>> 19 Jun
>> 2011 00:45:08
>> -0600
>> Subject: Re:
>> [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>> Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride
>> into
>> History, Race
>> for
>> Independence, Wed.
>> June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> Carley,
>> The
>> two
>> organizations don't
>> really claim to be "friends"
>> as
>> such-it
>> seems like now
>> they just
>> mostly
>> ignore each
>> other, work jointly
>> when
>> their agendas
>> converge and
>> play
>> politics when
>> they don't. Maybe
>> they
>> aren't enemies,
>> but the
>> official
>> organizations don't really
>> advertise
>> themselves as
>> friends.
>>
>> While it
>> would be great to
>> have people from both
>> organizations
>> participate in a
>> joint
>> call, I don't
>> see it
>> happening. Here's
>> hoping
>> though, I
>> guess It's
>> certainly a
>> nice
>> thought-although, if the
>> call
>> were to have
>> presentations
>> from
>> members of
>> both organizations, it
>> probably should
>> be jointly
>> moderated
>> and
>> attended. The NFB (or
>> probably even
>> NABS) would,
>> I'm
>> betting, not
>> be inclined to go
>> there.
>> So maybe we'll
>> have better
>> luck
>> going through
>> unnoficial channels
>> and
>> setting this up
>> on our
>> own? No
>> need to
>> make it an official event
>> for
>> either the
>> Federation or
>> the
>> Council-I think
>> it's safe to say
>> that
>> idea was doomed
>> to fail
>> before it
>> was brought
>> up.
>>
>> Best,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/18/11, Chris
>> Nusbaum
>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> And, as I said
>> before, I
>> would be
>> very
>> willing to moderate this
>> call.
>> Please keep me
>> posted!
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "A loss of sight,
>> never a
>> loss of
>> vision!"
>> (Camp Abilities motto)
>> To learn more
>> about Camp
>> Abilities
>> and find a
>> local camp near
>> you, just click
>> on this
>> link to
>> their
>> national Web site:
>>
>> www.campabilities.org.
>>
>> The I C.A.N.
>> Foundation helps
>> visually
>> impaired youth in
>> Maryland have the
>> ability
>> to
>> confidently say
>> "I can!" How? Click
>> on this link to
>> learn more
>> and to
>> contribute:
>>
>> www.icanfoundation.info.
>>
>> Sent
>> from my
>> BrailleNote
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Original Message
>> -----
>> From: Ignasi
>> Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
>> To: National
>> Association
>> of Blind
>> Students
>> mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat,
>> 18 Jun
>> 2011 18:51:04
>> -0400
>> Subject: Re:
>> [nabs-l]
>> [Nfbnet-members-list]
>> Threw Our Eyes
>> interview,Ride
>> into
>> History, Race
>> for
>> Independence, Wed.
>> June
>> 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>
>> This call would
>> be very
>> interesting
>> indeed. If
>> representatives
>> from both
>> organizations
>> are willing
>> to
>> participate, it can really
>> be productive in
>> many
>> ways.
>> On Jun 18, 2011,
>> at 1:46
>> PM, Carly
>> Mihalakis
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Good
>> morning,
>> list,
>>
>> A
>> few days
>> ago, someone on
>> the NABS list suggested
>> a
>> conference
>> call bringing
>> clarity to a
>> younger
>> generation. What,
>> exactly, is
>> the history of
>> the
>> ideological
>> parting of
>> ways, between the
>> Federation and
>> the
>> Council? Does
>> anybody know
>> today, the history
>> of this division
>> or is it
>> a product
>> of sheer
>> habit as is the case
>> with Republicans
>> and
>> Democrats? If
>> such a
>> meeting of both
>> entities were to
>> take
>> place, There
>> ought to
>> be representation of
>> both
>> organizations
>> so that a
>> wholistic
>> portrait of this issue
>> can be
>> exercised.
>>
>> and
>> its split
>> from the
>> ACB. This seems like a
>> productive and
>> enlightening
>> discussion
>> but I
>> wonder, if the
>> Federation and the
>> council claim to
>> be
>> friends, should
>> there not
>> be representation
>> from
>> both sides, identifying
>> their position and
>> whereabouts
>> they stand, in
>> this? At
>> ----
>> Original
>> Message
>> ------
>>
>> From: "Joe
>> Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com
>> (by way of David
>> Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)
>>
>> Subject:
>> [Nfbnet-members-list] Thru
>> Our Eyes
>> interview,
>> Ride
>> into History,Race
>> for
>> Independence,
>> Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm
>> EDT
>> Date
>> sent:
>> Fri, 17 Jun 2011
>> 19:26:45 -0500
>>
>>
>> Save
>> The
>> Date:
>>
>> On
>> Wednesday,
>> June 22,at
>> 8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our
>> Eyes host,
>> Joe
>>
>> Ruffalo will
>> interview
>> Parnell Diggs, chair of the
>> Imagination
>> Fund,
>> Race
>> for
>> Independence.
>>
>> The
>> interview
>> will highlight
>> current and past grants
>> awarded to
>> state
>>
>> affiliates
>> and chapters.
>> In
>> addition,
>> featured will
>> be Imaginators who will share
>> the
>> methods
>> to
>> make the
>> ask to make a
>> difference in changing what
>> it means
>> to be blind.
>>
>>
>> Special
>> highlight of the
>> interview will be the
>> announcement of
>> the 30
>>
>> winners who
>> will have the
>> opportunity to be driven by a
>> blind
>> driver
>>
>> while
>> attending
>> the
>> national
>> convention in
>> Orlando.
>>
>>
>> Witness the
>> opportunity to
>> ride into history!
>>
>> To
>> watch and
>> listen to the
>> interview, please visit the
>> following:
>>
>> <http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org
>>
>> For
>> JAWS
>> users and mobile
>> phone users, please visit
>> the
>> following:
>>
>>
>> m.thruoureyes.org
>>
>>
>> Other options
>> to watch or
>> listen can be found on the
>> sites
>> listed above.
>>
>> To
>> call in
>> with comments or
>> questions, please dial the
>> following:
>> 1
>> 888 572
>> 0141
>> Join
>> us to
>> Make a
>> Difference!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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