[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

bookwormahb at earthlink.net bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Thu Jun 23 21:48:04 UTC 2011


Chris, way off. The Braille Lite was made by Blazie Engineering who made the 
braille n speaks.
FS acquired Blazie Engineering and two other small companies.
The Braille Note is what you mean by BN I guess. This was made by humanware.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 5:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview,Ride 
into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Weren't the Lite and BN both made by Humanware?

Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info.

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:48:51 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
22, 8:00 pm EDT

Yeah, but look tell is really really really nice.  iNote isn't
bad I
guess, but Look Tell is amazing.  Braille Lite Mileniums weren't
bad,
either, for what they were designed to do.   But they sure as
heck
don't compare to an Apex or Braille Sense.  It's a silly analogy,
but
I think it illustrates the difference in quality between the two
apps.

On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
Well, not bad either way, imo.
Best,
Josh

sent from my Apex
Email:joshkart12 at gmail.com

----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:31:07 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
22, 8:00 pm EDT

Someone can help me here, but looktell's pretty much
instantaneous and
I think iNote's about 10 seconds or so.

On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
  What is the time difference for each ap?

  sent from my Apex
  Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

   ----- Original Message -----
  From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:15 -0600
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
  interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
  22, 8:00 pm EDT

  No.  When looktell announces the bill, it's certain.  Probably
  even
  more so than it would be with a picture.

  On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
   But, wouldn't having a picture be better because it could be
   certain of what the bill was?

   sent from my Apex
   Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

    ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
   Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:43:56 -0600
   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
   interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
   22, 8:00 pm EDT

   Josh,
     That's right-excpet the 4th generation Touch has a camera on
   the
   front and the back so it's more convenient to use the back, at
   least
   that's what I've found.  Looktell will just read out the
   denomination,
   iNote has to take a picture and takes longer.

   On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
    Explain how each works.  This is why I say it could get
   offtopic.
      I know the 4th generation IPod touch has a front-facing
   camera.
    So, I assume one would simply place the bill under the camera
   and
    the app would tell you what denomination it was?
    Best,
    Josh

    sent from my Apex
    Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

     ----- Original Message -----
    From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
    Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 18:26:52 -0600
    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
    interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
June
    22, 8:00 pm EDT

    Na, if we're talking about solutions for accessible
currencyk,
    we're
    still on topic.  If you're using an iOS device, you can get
   Inote
    which is free or pay 2 dollars and get looktell money reader
    which is
    easier to use.

    On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
     Can you explain offlist, please? I'm afraid we might be
  getting
     too offtopic if we keep it on.
     Best,
     Josh

     sent from my Apex
     Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

      ----- Original Message -----
     From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
     To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
     <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
     Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:59:55 -0600
     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
     interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
June
     22, 8:00 pm EDT

     Yeah, but looktell is better.

     On 6/22/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
      Oh, so that's the one I heard about.  The pay one, that is.
   So
      EyeNote's free.  Thanks Jessica!
      Best,
      Josh

      sent from my Apex
      Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

       ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
      To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
      <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
      Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:36:04 -0700
      Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
      interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
  June
      22, 8:00 pm EDT

      Josh, eyeNote is free.  The other I speak of is looktell
  money
      reader.  It is 2 dollars.

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Jun 22, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Josh Gregory
   <joshkart12 at gmail.com
      wrote:

       Hi, Jessica.  There's another one? EyeNote is what I was
     talking
      about, but I didn't know there was another one.  Do you by
  any
      chance know it's name?
       Best,
       Josh
       PS: Eyenote's free? Thought you had to pay for it.  Well,
we
      learn something new every day.  (smile)

       sent from my Apex
       Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

       ----- Original Message -----
       From: Jessica Silva <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
       To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
       Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
      interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
  June
      22, 8:00 pm EDT

       actually there is the one he speaks of but also there is
the
     one
      made by the US treasury.  it's called eyeNote and it's
free.

       On Wed Jun 22nd, 2011 3:39 PM MDT Josh Gregory wrote:

       They've got an ap to help with identifying money for I O S
      devices, that was mentioned on this list before I think.  I
    have
      heard it's only 2 bucks but that it works well.  It might
be
   in
      the ap store, but not having a device to check on, I'm not
    sure.
       Best,
       Josh

       sent from my Apex
       Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com

       ----- Original Message -----
       From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
       To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing
list'"
      <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 14:11:10 -0700
       Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
      interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
  June
      22, 8:00 pm EDT

       Hello, but what happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
   want
      to know what
       it is, but there is not a single sighted soul to tell me
  what
     it
      is? I know
       is a free alternative but, is it truly worth it? And, what
  if
      that sighted
       person lies about the amount of money that is on the bill?
       I would probably support ideas like the KNFB reader and
the
      iBill identifier
       if they were even cheaper.  If they were so, I would buy
one
    or
      the other,
       but so far, I can not afford either one.

       -----Original Message-----
       From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
      [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
       Of Kirt Manwaring
       Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:01 PM
       To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
       Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
      interview, Ride
       into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00
pm
    EDT

       Joshua,
       Valid points.  I've got a solution for you that doesn't
cost
   a
       thing.  Get a sighted person you trust to tell you what
your
      bills are
       when you get them, and fold them so you can identify them
in
     the
       future.  Inconvenient, maybe...but hey, if we're going to
  fit
     in
      to
       the world we've got to put up with some annoyances.
       BTW, what's wrong with a 20 cell display?  Not ideal maybe
    but,
      hey,
       maybe a rehab counselor would be more willing to get
   something
      with
       that much of a price reduction as compared to a 40 cell.
I
     used
      a
       20-cell PAC mate all through High School, an 18-cell Apex
  for
     my
      first
       year of college, and the shorter displays work fine.
       Best,
       Kirt

       On 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
      wrote:
       This is what Allan Ramos told me.
       He was a trainee at LWSB, when I was there.
       He's a member of the CCB, (California Council of the
Blind,)
      (not to
       be confused with Colorado Center for the Blind.)
       I'm going on what he said.
       Paper currency in the US, started with Andrew Jackson.
       Glenn Beck talks about this in great deal, in his book,
      "Growth."
       I've heard, that the debit cards are an alternative, but
we
      don't have
       such a system, that is accessible to us, in my small town.
       It's either what I suggested, or we should ask the NFB to
   push
      the
       companies that make accessible technologies, to make their
      technology
       affordable for all blind citizens, that need it.
       That's my problem with the Blind Driver Challenge, (for
      example.)
       They will make this car, but they have to charge an obseen
      amount of
       money, for it.
       I'm not going to be able to afford it.
       I can't afford a Pac Mate, with a 32 cell Braille display,
   and
      my
       state won't purchase it, for my schooling.
       I'm bringing this up, because, (back to the currency,) the
     IBill
      costs
       $100.
       The IBill, (I felt of one at convention last year,) is as
    small
      as a
       giga-pet.
       I got one of those, for $5, when I was a child!
       Why would I pay $100 for something that small?
       Make it affordable!
       Blessings, Joshua

       On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
       Josh,
       Your idea to have only coins is a good idea, but not
    realistic.
      Can you
       see
       a 50 dollar coin or even 20 dollar coin? Paper currency
has
     been
      and will
       always be a fabric of this country as it is in every
  country.
      Which
       country
       has only coins and know paper currency?
       I do not believe, but I could be wrong and please correct
  me,
      but I do
       not
       think that ACB is advocating only braille notes.  From my
      understanding
       they
       have been advocating a form of paper currency which is
      accessible  and
       afordable.  Ovisily braille is not the most afordable
means
   to
      make paper
       currency accessible.

       Anmol
       I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make
me
     sad.
      Perhaps
       there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
vague,
      like a
       breeze
       among flowers.
       Hellen Keller


       --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Joshua Lester
      <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
       wrote:

       From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
       Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
      interview,
       Ride
       into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00
pm
    EDT
       To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:51 PM
       Anmol, it's amazing that you bring up
       accessible currency.
       What the ACB wants, is Brailled currency.
       That isn't going to work.
       I have the answer to the problem.
       First of all, it's political.
       I'm tired of people saying that the conservatives aren't
on
       the side
       of the blind.
       When it comes to currency, they are.
       Remember, when Reagan mentioned a return to the gold
       standard?
       Coins are the answer to the problem.
       We can identify the coins, by their texture.
       We can't do this with paper currency.
       That solves the problems with our currency.
       This would help everyone, including us.
       #1.  You can't inflate, or deflate coins.
       #2.  You can't counterfeit coins.
       #3, (Here's the thing that will help blind people,) We can
       identify
       coins by their texture.
       Would there have to be alot of changes made?
       Yes, but is it worth it?
       Yes!
       Blessings, Joshua

       On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
       wrote:
       Jessica,
       Good point.  In addition, I would much rather a blind
       person to feel mobil
       even if they don't have good mobility skills and
       frankly I would rather have
       audible street lights then to see a blind person get
       killed because they
       could not figure out how the traffic goes.
       Anmol
       I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
       make me sad.  Perhaps
       there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
       vague, like a breeze
       among flowers.
       Hellen Keller


       --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Jessica
<jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
       wrote:

       From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
       Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
       Our Eyes interview, Ride
       into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22,
       8:00 pm EDT
       To: "National Association of Blind Students
       mailing list"
       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:01 PM
       There are certain types of
       intersections where no matter how long you stand
       there and
       listen to traffic you will never hear a good cycle
       so in
       those cases I actually support aps.  Just keep that
       in mind
       when someone talks about every intersection being
       crossable
       by listening to traffic.

       Sent from my iPhone

       On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Kirt Manwaring
       <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
       wrote:

       Anmol,
       It's a nice thought.  Maybe it'll
       be
       possible, some day.  Never say
       never, ri9ght?
       But here's the thing.  The two
       organizations have evolved two
       separate philosophies and mindsets.  I'm
       doing
       something really bad
       and generalizing.  If anyone who knows
       more than
       I do wants to correct
       me here, feel free.
       The stance the ACB seems to take more
       often than
       not is to make the
       environment more accessible for us.
       This is
       evidenced by their
       support for audible street signals (which
       make a lot
       of sense to me,
       I'm not really convinced one way or the other
       on that
       one yet),
       tactile currency, descriptive movies, the
       provisions
       in the ADA to
       make ATMs accessible, the 21st century
       communications
       act, their
       support for Randolph-Shepherd, universal
       design in
       technology, etc.
       They also use lots of their resources to
       fight
       descrimination, at
       least it seems that way to me.
       The NFB, on the other hand, seems to
       more often
       than not advocate us
       adapting to the environment.  This is
       evidenced
       by the strict
       standards of training centers, pushing
       braille,
       opposition to the
       tactile currency idea, advocacy of relying on
       traffic
       rather than
       audible signals (which makes a lot of sense
       to me),
       our philosophy
       that with the right training and opportunity
       we can
       compete on an
       equal footing, the idea of the blind driver
       challenge,
       etc.  Of course
       the NFB sometimes pushes making changes in
       the
       environment (technology
       bill of rights, Help America Vote Act, and
       the ADA
       which we also
       supported), and the ACB does advocate for
       quality
       independence
       training/O&M.  But, those are the
       rough
       philosophies of the two
       organizations, if we're going by their
       records.
       Is the ACB wrong?
       No, I don't think so, but the NFB is more of
       a fit
       with my vision of
       blindness.  I just think thee two
       separate
       methodoligies willkeep us
       from ever uniting as one group...and that's
       ok.
       We all have the
       right, even the obligation to advocate for
       ourselves
       and those we
       represent.  The ACB does it their way,
       we do it
       ours.  Sometimes there
       is overlap, lots of times our philosophies
       take us in
       different
       directions and put us on opposite sides of
       important
       issues.  When our
       aims are the same (or similar), we need to
       work
       together and present a
       united front.  When we are at odds
       (which we
       often are, the two
       organizations really are very different), we
       both have
       the right to
       push our separate agendas and attempt to get
       our
       policies implimented.
       Sometimes they win, sometimes we win, that's
       politics.  We don't have
       to be bitter about it and, on the personal
       level, we
       can still be good
       friends even when our politics are at odds.
       Just my thoughts,
       Kirt

       On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
       wrote:
       Kirt,
       You bring some vary valid points, and yes
       we have
       beaten the
       democrats/republicans analogy  to
       death but
       it keeps coming up as a
       comparison, so I will just say one thing
       about
       this.  I may have already said
       this before on the list, but please
       furgive me if
       I have.  The blind
       community is a to small of a community to
       be
       divided on partizen lines like
       democrats and republicans, and our
       challenges are
       to great to be divided
       like democrats and republicans.  Sure
       there will be
       differences between
       members of the ACB and members of the NFB
       on how
       business should be
       conducted, but honestly there differences
       between
       members of each
       organization on how their organization
       should do
       business.
       True there were disagreement on how
       business
       should and leadership issues
       causing the split between the NFB and
       ACB, I
       consider the leadership issues
       to be pitty differences.  Often when one
       candidate
       loses, they and their
       supporters go and form their on
       organization or
       chapter.  This happened at my
       local NFB chapter and as a result we have
       two NFB
       chapters in a small town.
       Now some may consider this to be a good
       thing, but
       think about how much more
       we can achieve if we were one NFB chapter
       in
       Fayetteville in recruiting,
       fund raising and my volunteers for
       events.  In
       addition, these types of
       childish arguements causes many blind
       people who
       otherwise may be involved
       in a blind organization to be a "fense
       sitters".
       Now using this analogy  to
       NFB ACB, ACB does not have near the funds
       that NFB
       has, but they are not
       poor eather.  Their attendence is not as
       large at
       the conventions, but it is
       not small eather.  Think if both of these
       organizations were together how
       much more money we would have to do
       policy that
       each organization does or
       the advocacy work that each
       organization
       does, and think about how much
       larger the convention would be.  We would
       pack two
       hotels full or near full.
       In addition, think about how much venders
       would be
       giving out in prizes
       because now insteading having to spend
       money to
       send their workers to two
       convention, they will only have to send
       their
       workers to one convention.  In
       addition, most venders give out big
       prizes at each
       convention and if there
       was only one convention, they can give
       two
       prizes.
       However, you are right in that
       realistically the
       two organizations will not
       merge any time soon.

       best wishes,
       Anmol
       I seldom think about my limitations, and
       they
       never make me sad.  Perhaps
       there is just a touch of yearning at
       times; but it
       is vague, like a breeze
       among flowers.
       Hellen Keller


       --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt Manwaring
       <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
       wrote:

       From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
       Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
       [Nfbnet-members-list]
       Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
       into History, Race for Independence,
       Wed.  June
       22, 8:00 pm EDT
       To: "National Association of Blind
       Students
       mailing list"
       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 2:51
       PM
       Anmol,
       I don't really see a
       merger
       happening any time soon,
       nor would I
       want it to.  We've all beaten
       the
       democrat/republican
       analogy to
       death...but imagine Barack Obama and
       Mitt
       Romney in the
       same political
       party.  It just wouldn't work.
       There are huge
       differences.  It
       doesn't make the NFB better for
       everyone, but
       it makes the
       NFB better
       for me.  I have lots of respect
       for my
       friends in the
       ACB who stand up
       and fight for their agenda.
       Lots of the
       times, it's
       the same as mine.
       When it's not, we can talk without
       being
       jackasses to each
       other and,
       in a lot of cases, the disagreement
       actually
       strengthens
       our
       friendship.
       I say diversity is
       good,
       competition is good, we
       need a free market
       of ideas.  I respect ACB and the
       sincere
       people there
       trying to make
       the lives of blind people
       better.  I
       happen to find
       the Federation
       philosophy and method more meaningful
       for
       me.  I want
       to understand
       the split.  From the little bit
       of
       studying I've done,
       I don't really
       think it was petty personal
       differences but
       rather
       differing
       philosophies about methodology and
       leadership
       that drove
       the two
       groups to separate.  We can be
       different
       without being
       petty.  We can
       disagree without being bigots.
       When our
       two
       organizations come down
       on opposite sides of important
       issues, as we
       often do, we
       need not be
       arrogant or self-rightious because we
       think
       we're
       right.  The fact is,
       we disagree.  And I think the
       disagreements are too
       central to our
       respective organizations for us to
       ever become
       one.
       But that doesn't
       mean we can't be friends, especially
       on a
       personal level.
       Best,
       Kirt

       On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
       wrote:
       Kirt,
       You are bringing up some vary
       good
       points...
       Understanding the history of
       the NFB and ACB is an import part
       in the
       history in
       the blind movement and
       an important part in the history
       of two
       organizations.
       Frankly in it is just
       my oppinion both organizations
       bring value
       and have
       and continue to make a
       difference for blind people
       across America
       on a daily
       bases.  It is a shame
       that this split happened and just
       maybe
       the next
       generation of blind
       individuals our generation or
       those who
       are younger
       then can bring the two
       organizations together once
       again.  Now
       this is just my
       translation and my
       oppinion, but  it seems to
       me that
       the NFB ACB
       split happened over pitty
       differences and two individuals
       with
       different ideas
       fighting for power.  It
       seems to me that the hate the
       two
       organizations have
       towards each other is
       not as strong amongest this
       generation.
       Infact many
       members of NABS of ACB
       and NABS of NFB are friends in
       life and
       attack on the
       other organization is
       usually not
       allow on each
       organization's mailing
       list.
       Dave, you are right that ACB does
       not have
       the same
       amount of people
       attending its' convention, but
       their
       attendence is not
       small eather.  I would
       guess 1500 attend the ACB
       convention and
       all the major
       venders who attend
       the NFB convention attend the
       ACB
       convention.  There
       are also quite a few
       young people who attend the ACB
       convention.
       Yes ACB does its' business
       different then
       NFB, but
       thats why they are a
       different organization.  However,
       this does
       not make
       them any worse or better
       then the NFB.
       Just my thoughts and it would be
       great if
       we keep the
       attacks on each
       organization to as less as
       possible.

       Anmol


       I seldom think about my
       limitations, and
       they never
       make me sad.  Perhaps
       there is just a touch of yearning
       at
       times; but it is
       vague, like a breeze
       among flowers.
       Hellen Keller


       --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt
       Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
       wrote:

       From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
       Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
       [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
       Our Eyes interview, Ride
       into History, Race for
       Independence,
       Wed.  June 22,
       8:00 pm EDT
       To: "National Association of
       Blind
       Students
       mailing list"
       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2011,
       12:25
       PM
       Dave,
       How long ago
       was
       this?  Things could've
       changed
       since you last went
       if it's been a while, maybe?
       And, with respect,
       this
       is a big deal to
       a lot of us.  I know for
       me it's
       a lot more than
       a
       "small
       consideration", I like to
       know the
       past as much as
       I can
       because it
       shaped the here and
       now.  I can
       read the books
       put out
       by each
       organization-they probably
       both have
       lots of the
       truth
       intermingled
       with their respective
       agendas.
       But nothing
       beats
       talking to people
       who have studied the issues
       or,
       preferably, people
       who were
       actually
       there.
       All the
       best,
       Kirt

       On 6/21/11, David Andrews
       <dandrews at visi.com
       wrote:
       The two biggest things I
       noticed
       at an ACB
       national
       convention were
       that the crowd was
       considerably
       smaller than
       that at a
       NFB convention
       -- less exhibits etc.
       too.
       The second
       things was
       that there were few
       young persons -- some
       but
       noticeably not
       very
       many.  One of the major
       things that the ACB has
       pushed in
       the past is
       that it
       is different
       from the NFB, it does
       things
       differently
       etc.
       This doesn't really
       matter to younger people
       though,
       so they have
       little
       reason to join, so
       don't.

       You guys can spend lots
       of time on
       the
       history, and
       differences if
       you want -- but what is
       the
       point.  It
       happened,
       it is over with and
       done.  Yes we can
       and should
       learn from our
       history, but it is just
       one small consideration.

       Dave

       At 11:32 AM 6/20/2011,
       you wrote:
       Dave,
        I do see
       your
       point.  Those
       alive at the time are not,
       and will
       probabluy never be
       friends.  Heck,
       getting
       them to actually talk in
       peace would be the
       achievement
       of the
       century!   if
       such a
       call were
       to hypothetically
       happen, how
       could we
       keep it from
       opening old wounds
       and stoking old
       fires?
        Best,
       Kirt

       On 6/20/11, Chris
       Nusbaum
       <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
       wrote:
       Dave,

       Our joint
       conference call
       isn't
       associated
       whatsoever with the
       proposition of a
       change in
       the NFB
       bylaw.  If I'm setting
       this
       up, which it
       appears I am,
       I didn't
       even have
       the intention of
       mentioning that
       proposition on the
       call.  The call's
       purpose is
       to learn the
       history of
       the NFB/ACB,
       with a
       little emphasis on
       the "civil war"
       period,
       from both
       sides so we
       are informed.  I
       also want this
       call to
       start a
       discussion on
       the history of our
       movement and what
       we can
       learn from
       it, not
       only as
       Federationists,
       but as
       blind
       students.
       Jorge and I have found
       some ways that we
       can hold
       the call
       without
       making it a NABS
       membership call,
       if it is
       entirely
       necessary.  And as to
       your
       comments about
       them not
       being our
       friends,
       then using your
       argument, the
       Republicans
       should not
       hear the
       Democrats point of
       view in meetings
       of
       Congress, but
       the two
       parties should be
       separated from
       each other
       for fear
       of their
       own side being
       attacked.
       We can
       keep our same
       opinions, and probably many
       Federationists
       and Council
       members
       who attend
       this call will.
       This is just a
       way that we
       can be
       more
       informed when forming
       these opinions.


       Chris

       "A loss of sight,
       never a
       loss of
       vision!"
       (Camp Abilities motto)
       To learn more
       about Camp
       Abilities
       and find a
       local camp near
       you, just click
       on this
       link to
       their
       national Web site:

       www.campabilities.org.

       The I C.A.N.
       Foundation helps
       visually
       impaired youth in
       Maryland have the
       ability
       to
       confidently say
       "I can!" How? Click
       on this link to
       learn more
       and to
       contribute:

       www.icanfoundation.info.


       Sent from
       my BrailleNote


       -----
       Original Message -----
       From: David
       Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
       To: National
       Association
       of Blind
       Students
       mailing list
       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date sent: Sun,
       19 Jun
       2011 20:39:01
       -0500
       Subject: Re:
       [nabs-l]
       [Nfbnet-members-list]
       Threw Our Eyes
       interview,Ride
       into
       History, Race
       for
       Independence, Wed.
       June
       22, 8:00 pm EDT

       Chris:

       I don't want to
       friend
       anyone -- but
       I think
       this is a terrible
       idea!
       Remember the
       ACB split off
       from
       the NFB because they
       thought
       that we were all
       wrong,
       did our
       business in
       the wrong way etc.  I
       am
       not going to say
       that we
       can't learn
       anything
       from the ACB, but
       not a
       history
       lesson.  I
       was at a ACb
       National
       Convention a few years
       ago
       -- and heard the
       NFB
       attacked openly
       and
       indirectly.  These
       folks
       are
       not our
       friends.  We
       can work
       jointly at
       times, and should, and I
       don't think we
       should be
       against
       them, for
       the sake of it, as
       some of
       my old-timer
       friends are
       -- but a
       joint
       conference call on
       consideration of
       a change
       to a NFB
       division
       bylaw is going to
       far!

       Dave

       At 12:53 PM
       6/19/2011, you
       wrote:
       Kirt,

       I have a friend
       in the
       Council that
       I will
       see Monday night, so I
       plan to give this
       idea to
       him and
       ask if he
       knows someone in the
       Council that
       would be
       knowledgeable
       enough
       and willing to attend
       this call on
       behalf of the
       Council
       as an
       expert on their history.
       Maybe it would be
       better
       if someone
       like me
       moderated.  Keep in
       mind
       that I did
       volunteer, but
       I'm not
       degrading
       anyone else, I'm just
       using myself as
       an example
       here.
       I'm a
       member of the Federation,
       but I'm not a
       hard-line
       "NFB is
       good, ACB
       bad" person, so I
       wouldn't
       show any bias to
       NFB or
       ACB.  I
       also am
       not currently a
       contributing
       (due-paying)
       member of
       NABS, so I'm
       not a
       leader in it of
       course.
       That way, we
       wouldn't have
       any
       bias.
       I think it would
       be easy
       to have it
       jointly
       attended even if it's
       an
       official NABS
       call.
       If we have a
       representative of ACB on the
       call,
       we could probably
       easily
       get other
       members of
       ACB on the call to
       kind of back up
       or add to
       that
       guest
       speaker's information.
       Thoughts?

       Chris

       "A loss of sight,
       never a
       loss of
       vision!"
       (Camp Abilities motto)
       To learn more
       about Camp
       Abilities
       and find a
       local camp near
       you,
       just click on
       this link to
       their
       national Web
       site:

       www.campabilities.org.

       The I C.A.N.
       Foundation helps
       visually
       impaired youth in
       Maryland
       have the ability
       to
       confidently say
       "I can!"
       How? Click on this
       link
       to learn more and
       to
       contribute:
       www.icanfoundation.info.

       Sent from my
       BrailleNote

       ----- Original
       Message
       -----
       From: Kirt
       Manwaring
       <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
       To: National
       Association
       of Blind
       Students
       mailing list
       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date sent: Sun,
       19 Jun
       2011 00:45:08
       -0600
       Subject: Re:
       [nabs-l]
       [Nfbnet-members-list]
       Threw Our Eyes
       interview,Ride
       into
       History, Race
       for
       Independence, Wed.
       June
       22, 8:00 pm EDT

       Carley,
        The
       two
       organizations don't
       really claim to be "friends"
       as
       such-it
       seems like now
       they just
       mostly
       ignore each
       other, work jointly
       when
       their agendas
       converge and
       play
       politics when
       they don't.  Maybe
       they
       aren't enemies,
       but the
       official
       organizations don't really
       advertise
       themselves as
       friends.

       While it
       would be great to
       have people from both
       organizations
       participate in a
       joint
       call, I don't
       see it
       happening.  Here's
       hoping
       though, I
       guess  It's
       certainly a
       nice
       thought-although, if the
       call
       were to have
       presentations
       from
       members of
       both organizations, it
       probably should
       be jointly
       moderated
       and
       attended.  The NFB (or
       probably even
       NABS) would,
       I'm
       betting, not
       be inclined to go
       there.
       So maybe we'll
       have better
       luck
       going through
       unnoficial channels
       and
       setting this up
       on our
       own?  No
       need to
       make it an official event
       for
       either the
       Federation or
       the
       Council-I think
       it's safe to say
       that
       idea was doomed
       to fail
       before it
       was brought
       up.

       Best,
       Kirt

       On 6/18/11, Chris
       Nusbaum
       <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
       wrote:
       And, as I said
       before, I
       would be
       very
       willing to moderate this
       call.
       Please keep me
       posted!


       Chris

       "A loss of sight,
       never a
       loss of
       vision!"
       (Camp Abilities motto)
       To learn more
       about Camp
       Abilities
       and find a
       local camp near
       you, just click
       on this
       link to
       their
       national Web site:

       www.campabilities.org.

       The I C.A.N.
       Foundation helps
       visually
       impaired youth in
       Maryland have the
       ability
       to
       confidently say
       "I can!" How? Click
       on this link to
       learn more
       and to
       contribute:

       www.icanfoundation.info.

        Sent
       from my
       BrailleNote


       -----
       Original Message
       -----
       From: Ignasi
       Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
       To: National
       Association
       of Blind
       Students
       mailing list
       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
       Date sent: Sat,
       18 Jun
       2011 18:51:04
       -0400
       Subject: Re:
       [nabs-l]
       [Nfbnet-members-list]
       Threw Our Eyes
       interview,Ride
       into
       History, Race
       for
       Independence, Wed.
       June
       22, 8:00 pm EDT

       This call would
       be very
       interesting
       indeed.  If
       representatives
       from both
       organizations
       are willing
       to
       participate, it can really
       be productive in
       many
       ways.
       On Jun 18, 2011,
       at 1:46
       PM, Carly
       Mihalakis
       wrote:



        Good
       morning,
       list,

        A
       few days
       ago, someone on
       the NABS list  suggested
       a
       conference
       call bringing
       clarity to a
       younger
       generation.  What,
       exactly, is
       the history of
       the
       ideological
       parting of
       ways, between the
       Federation and
       the
       Council? Does
       anybody know
       today, the history
       of this division
       or is it
       a product
       of sheer
       habit as is the case
       with Republicans
       and
       Democrats? If
       such a
       meeting of both
       entities were to
       take
       place, There
       ought to
       be representation of
       both
       organizations
       so that a
       wholistic
       portrait of this issue
       can be
       exercised.

        and
       its split
       from the
       ACB.  This seems like a
       productive and
       enlightening
       discussion
       but I
       wonder, if the
       Federation and the
       council claim to
       be
       friends, should
       there not
       be representation
       from
       both   sides, identifying
       their position and
       whereabouts
       they stand, in
       this? At
        ----
       Original
       Message
       ------

       From: "Joe
       Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com
       (by way of David
       Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)

       Subject:
       [Nfbnet-members-list] Thru
       Our Eyes
       interview,
       Ride
       into History,Race
       for
       Independence,
       Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm
       EDT
        Date
       sent:
       Fri, 17 Jun 2011
       19:26:45 -0500


        Save
       The
       Date:

        On
       Wednesday,
       June 22,at
       8:00 pm eastern, Thru Our
       Eyes host,
       Joe

       Ruffalo will
       interview
       Parnell Diggs, chair of the
       Imagination
       Fund,
        Race
       for
       Independence.

        The
       interview
       will highlight
       current and past grants
       awarded to
       state

       affiliates
       and chapters.
        In
       addition,
       featured will
       be Imaginators who will share
       the
       methods
        to
       make the
       ask to make a
       difference in changing what
       it means
       to be blind.


       Special
       highlight of the
       interview will be the
       announcement of
       the 30

       winners who
       will have the
       opportunity to be driven by a
       blind
       driver

       while
       attending
        the
       national
       convention in
       Orlando.


       Witness the
       opportunity to
       ride into history!

        To
       watch and
       listen to the
       interview, please visit the
       following:

       <http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org

        For
       JAWS
       users and mobile
       phone users, please visit
       the
       following:


       m.thruoureyes.org


       Other options
       to watch or
       listen can be found on the
       sites
       listed above.

        To
       call in
       with comments or
       questions, please dial the
       following:
        1
       888 572
       0141
        Join
       us to
       Make a
       Difference!






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