[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Thu Jun 23 23:24:58 UTC 2011


I think it's important to mention this observation before we go 
on.  This was an ACB proposal, not an NFB one, and look how many 
of you are for it! Many of these people are the same people who 
(in earlier threads) almost attacked ACB and said the NFB is so 
much better.  Reminder: NFB leadership was totally against this 
two years ago, probably because ACB proposed it.

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near 
you, just click on this link to their national Web site: 
www.campabilities.org.

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in 
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click 
on this link to learn more and to contribute: 
www.icanfoundation.info.

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:18:54 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 
22, 8:00 pm EDT

That's the problem!
They should have thought about it.
Now, it's left up to us.
Blessings, Joshua

On 6/22/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
 Joshua,
   Different textures, different sizes, I honestly don't know 
either.
 That's why this is such a problem.  If we were a smaller 
country, or
 if we'd thought about this 25 years ago, I bet it would be a lot
 easier..

 On 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 What else can we do, to make it identifiable?
 We've discussed this to death, on the other list.
 Making the paper currency have different textures may be okay.
 The Braille, though isn't the answer.
 I don't know what else to do.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
 Kirt,
 You and Josh have valid points, but I have even a better 
solution! Lets
 make
 the currency identifable so that a blind person would not have 
to find a
 friend or rely on technology to identify their money.  Don't we 
stress
 independence? Well having to ask someone how much money you have 
or
 dependenting on technology to identify your money is not 
independence.
 The
 folding method is fine if you know how much money you have.
 Anmol
 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.  
Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a
 breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
interview,
 Ride
 into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 4:00 PM
 Joshua,
   Valid points.  I've got a solution for you that
 doesn't cost a
 thing.  Get a sighted person you trust to tell you
 what your bills are
 when you get them, and fold them so you can identify them
 in the
 future.  Inconvenient, maybe...but hey, if we're going
 to fit in to
 the world we've got to put up with some annoyances.
   BTW, what's wrong with a 20 cell display?  Not
 ideal maybe but, hey,
 maybe a rehab counselor would be more willing to get
 something with
 that much of a price reduction as compared to a 40
 cell.  I used a
 20-cell PAC mate all through High School, an 18-cell Apex
 for my first
 year of college, and the shorter displays work fine.
   Best,
 Kirt

 On 6/22/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 wrote:
 This is what Allan Ramos told me.
 He was a trainee at LWSB, when I was there.
 He's a member of the CCB, (California Council of the
 Blind,) (not to
 be confused with Colorado Center for the Blind.)
 I'm going on what he said.
 Paper currency in the US, started with Andrew
 Jackson.
 Glenn Beck talks about this in great deal, in his
 book, "Growth."
 I've heard, that the debit cards are an alternative,
 but we don't have
 such a system, that is accessible to us, in my small
 town.
 It's either what I suggested, or we should ask the NFB
 to push the
 companies that make accessible technologies, to make
 their technology
 affordable for all blind citizens, that need it.
 That's my problem with the Blind Driver Challenge,
 (for example.)
 They will make this car, but they have to charge an
 obseen amount of
 money, for it.
 I'm not going to be able to afford it.
 I can't afford a Pac Mate, with a 32 cell Braille
 display, and my
 state won't purchase it, for my schooling.
 I'm bringing this up, because, (back to the currency,)
 the IBill costs $100.
 The IBill, (I felt of one at convention last year,) is
 as small as a
 giga-pet.
 I got one of those, for $5, when I was a child!
 Why would I pay $100 for something that small?
 Make it affordable!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Josh,
 Your idea to have only coins is a good idea, but
 not realistic.  Can you
 see
 a 50 dollar coin or even 20 dollar coin? Paper
 currency has been and will
 always be a fabric of this country as it is in
 every country.  Which
 country
 has only coins and know paper currency?
 I do not believe, but I could be wrong and please
 correct me, but I do not
 think that ACB is advocating only braille notes.
 From my understanding
 they
 have been advocating a form of paper currency
 which is accessible  and
 afordable.  Ovisily braille is not the most
 afordable means to make paper
 currency accessible.

 Anmol
 I seldom think about my limitations, and they
 never make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it
 is vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Joshua Lester 
<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 wrote:

 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes interview,
 Ride
 into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
 22, 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:51 PM
 Anmol, it's amazing that you bring up
 accessible currency.
 What the ACB wants, is Brailled currency.
 That isn't going to work.
 I have the answer to the problem.
 First of all, it's political.
 I'm tired of people saying that the
 conservatives aren't on
 the side
 of the blind.
 When it comes to currency, they are.
 Remember, when Reagan mentioned a return to
 the gold
 standard?
 Coins are the answer to the problem.
 We can identify the coins, by their texture.
 We can't do this with paper currency.
 That solves the problems with our currency.
 This would help everyone, including us.
 #1.  You can't inflate, or deflate coins.
 #2.  You can't counterfeit coins.
 #3, (Here's the thing that will help blind
 people,) We can
 identify
 coins by their texture.
 Would there have to be alot of changes made?
 Yes, but is it worth it?
 Yes!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Jessica,
 Good point.  In addition, I would much
 rather a blind
 person to feel mobil
 even if they don't have good mobility
 skills and
 frankly I would rather have
 audible street lights then to see a blind
 person get
 killed because they
 could not figure out how the traffic
 goes.
 Anmol
 I seldom think about my limitations, and
 they never
 make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at
 times; but it is
 vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
 wrote:

 From: Jessica <jessmonsilva2003 at sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
 Our Eyes interview, Ride
 into History, Race for Independence,
 Wed.  June 22,
 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind
 Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:01
 PM
 There are certain types of
 intersections where no matter how
 long you stand
 there and
 listen to traffic you will never hear
 a good cycle
 so in
 those cases I actually support aps.
 Just keep that
 in mind
 when someone talks about every
 intersection being
 crossable
 by listening to traffic.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:57 AM, Kirt
 Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 Anmol,
  It's a nice thought.
 Maybe it'll
 be
 possible, some day.  Never say
 never, ri9ght?
  But here's the
 thing.  The two
 organizations have evolved two
 separate philosophies and
 mindsets.  I'm
 doing
 something really bad
 and generalizing.  If
 anyone who knows
 more than
 I do wants to correct
 me here, feel free.
  The stance the ACB seems
 to take more
 often than
 not is to make the
 environment more accessible for
 us.
 This is
 evidenced by their
 support for audible street
 signals (which
 make a lot
 of sense to me,
 I'm not really convinced one way
 or the other
 on that
 one yet),
 tactile currency, descriptive
 movies, the
 provisions
 in the ADA to
 make ATMs accessible, the 21st
 century
 communications
 act, their
 support for Randolph-Shepherd,
 universal
 design in
 technology, etc.
 They also use lots of their
 resources to
 fight
 descrimination, at
 least it seems that way to me.
  The NFB, on the other
 hand, seems to
 more often
 than not advocate us
 adapting to the
 environment.  This is
 evidenced
 by the strict
 standards of training centers,
 pushing
 braille,
 opposition to the
 tactile currency idea, advocacy
 of relying on
 traffic
 rather than
 audible signals (which makes a
 lot of sense
 to me),
 our philosophy
 that with the right training and
 opportunity
 we can
 compete on an
 equal footing, the idea of the
 blind driver
 challenge,
 etc.  Of course
 the NFB sometimes pushes making
 changes in
 the
 environment (technology
 bill of rights, Help America
 Vote Act, and
 the ADA
 which we also
 supported), and the ACB does
 advocate for
 quality
 independence
 training/O&M.  But,
 those are the
 rough
 philosophies of the two
 organizations, if we're going by
 their
 records.
 Is the ACB wrong?
 No, I don't think so, but the
 NFB is more of
 a fit
 with my vision of
 blindness.  I just think
 thee two
 separate
 methodoligies willkeep us
 from ever uniting as one
 group...and that's
 ok.
 We all have the
 right, even the obligation to
 advocate for
 ourselves
 and those we
 represent.  The ACB does it
 their way,
 we do it
 ours.  Sometimes there
 is overlap, lots of times our
 philosophies
 take us in
 different
 directions and put us on
 opposite sides of
 important
 issues.  When our
 aims are the same (or similar),
 we need to
 work
 together and present a
 united front.  When we are
 at odds
 (which we
 often are, the two
 organizations really are very
 different), we
 both have
 the right to
 push our separate agendas and
 attempt to get
 our
 policies implimented.
 Sometimes they win, sometimes we
 win, that's
 politics.  We don't have
 to be bitter about it and, on
 the personal
 level, we
 can still be good
 friends even when our politics
 are at odds.
  Just my thoughts,
 Kirt

 On 6/22/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Kirt,
 You bring some vary valid
 points, and yes
 we have
 beaten the
 democrats/republicans
 analogy  to
 death but
 it keeps coming up as a
 comparison, so I will just
 say one thing
 about
 this.  I may have already said
 this before on the list, but
 please
 furgive me if
 I have.  The blind
 community is a to small of a
 community to
 be
 divided on partizen lines like
 democrats and republicans,
 and our
 challenges are
 to great to be divided
 like democrats and
 republicans.  Sure
 there will be
 differences between
 members of the ACB and
 members of the NFB
 on how
 business should be
 conducted, but honestly
 there differences
 between
 members of each
 organization on how their
 organization
 should do
 business.
 True there were disagreement
 on how
 business
 should and leadership issues
 causing the split between
 the NFB and
 ACB, I
 consider the leadership issues
 to be pitty differences.
 Often when one
 candidate
 loses, they and their
 supporters go and form their
 on
 organization or
 chapter.  This happened at my
 local NFB chapter and as a
 result we have
 two NFB
 chapters in a small town.
 Now some may consider this
 to be a good
 thing, but
 think about how much more
 we can achieve if we were
 one NFB chapter
 in
 Fayetteville in recruiting,
 fund raising and my
 volunteers for
 events.  In
 addition, these types of
 childish arguements causes
 many blind
 people who
 otherwise may be involved
 in a blind organization to
 be a "fense
 sitters".
 Now using this analogy  to
 NFB ACB, ACB does not have
 near the funds
 that NFB
 has, but they are not
 poor eather.  Their
 attendence is not as
 large at
 the conventions, but it is
 not small eather.  Think if
 both of these
 organizations were together how
 much more money we would
 have to do
 policy that
 each organization does or
 the advocacy work that each
 organization
 does, and think about how much
 larger the convention would
 be.  We would
 pack two
 hotels full or near full.
 In addition, think about how
 much venders
 would be
 giving out in prizes
 because now insteading
 having to spend
 money to
 send their workers to two
 convention, they will only
 have to send
 their
 workers to one convention.  In
 addition, most venders give
 out big
 prizes at each
 convention and if there
 was only one convention,
 they can give
 two
 prizes.
 However, you are right in
 that
 realistically the
 two organizations will not
 merge any time soon.

 best wishes,
 Anmol
 I seldom think about my
 limitations, and
 they
 never make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a touch of
 yearning at
 times; but it
 is vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Kirt
 Manwaring
 <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 From: Kirt Manwaring
 <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
 into History, Race for
 Independence,
 Wed.  June
 22, 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National
 Association of Blind
 Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Tuesday, June 21,
 2011, 2:51
 PM
 Anmol,
   I don't
 really see a
 merger
 happening any time soon,
 nor would I
 want it to.  We've
 all beaten
 the
 democrat/republican
 analogy to
 death...but imagine
 Barack Obama and
 Mitt
 Romney in the
 same political
 party.  It just
 wouldn't work.
 There are huge
 differences.  It
 doesn't make the NFB
 better for
 everyone, but
 it makes the
 NFB better
 for me.  I have
 lots of respect
 for my
 friends in the
 ACB who stand up
 and fight for their
 agenda.
 Lots of the
 times, it's
 the same as mine.
 When it's not, we can
 talk without
 being
 jackasses to each
 other and,
 in a lot of cases, the
 disagreement
 actually
 strengthens
 our
 friendship.
   I say
 diversity is
 good,
 competition is good, we
 need a free market
 of ideas.  I
 respect ACB and the
 sincere
 people there
 trying to make
 the lives of blind
 people
 better.  I
 happen to find
 the Federation
 philosophy and method
 more meaningful
 for
 me.  I want
 to understand
 the split.  From
 the little bit
 of
 studying I've done,
 I don't really
 think it was petty
 personal
 differences but
 rather
 differing
 philosophies about
 methodology and
 leadership
 that drove
 the two
 groups to
 separate.  We can be
 different
 without being
 petty.  We can
 disagree without being
 bigots.
 When our
 two
 organizations come down
 on opposite sides of
 important
 issues, as we
 often do, we
 need not be
 arrogant or
 self-rightious because we
 think
 we're
 right.  The fact
 is,
 we disagree.  And I
 think the
 disagreements are too
 central to our
 respective organizations
 for us to
 ever become
 one.
 But that doesn't
 mean we can't be
 friends, especially
 on a
 personal level.
   Best,
 Kirt

 On 6/21/11, Anmol Bhatia
 <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Kirt,
 You are bringing up
 some vary
 good
 points...
 Understanding the
 history of
 the NFB and ACB is
 an import part
 in the
 history in
 the blind movement and
 an important part in
 the history
 of two
 organizations.
 Frankly in it is just
 my oppinion both
 organizations
 bring value
 and have
 and continue to make a
 difference for blind
 people
 across America
 on a daily
 bases.  It is a shame
 that this split
 happened and just
 maybe
 the next
 generation of blind
 individuals our
 generation or
 those who
 are younger
 then can bring the two
 organizations
 together once
 again.  Now
 this is just my
 translation and my
 oppinion, but
 it seems to
 me that
 the NFB ACB
 split happened over
 pitty
 differences and two
 individuals
 with
 different ideas
 fighting for power.  It
 seems to me that the
 hate the
 two
 organizations have
 towards each other is
 not as strong
 amongest this
 generation.
 Infact many
 members of NABS of ACB
 and NABS of NFB are
 friends in
 life and
 attack on the
 other organization is

   usually not
 allow on each
 organization's mailing
 list.
 Dave, you are right
 that ACB does
 not have
 the same
 amount of people
 attending its'
 convention, but
 their
 attendence is not
 small eather.  I would
 guess 1500 attend
 the ACB
 convention and
 all the major
 venders who attend
 the NFB convention
 attend the
 ACB
 convention.  There
 are also quite a few
 young people who
 attend the ACB
 convention.
 Yes ACB does its'
 business
 different then
 NFB, but
 thats why they are a
 different
 organization.  However,
 this does
 not make
 them any worse or
 better
 then the NFB.
 Just my thoughts and
 it would be
 great if
 we keep the
 attacks on each
 organization to as
 less as
 possible.

 Anmol


 I seldom think about
 my
 limitations, and
 they never
 make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a
 touch of yearning
 at
 times; but it is
 vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Tue, 6/21/11,
 Kirt
 Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 From: Kirt
 Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re:
 [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
 Our Eyes interview,
 Ride
 into History,
 Race for
 Independence,
 Wed.  June 22,
 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National
 Association of
 Blind
 Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Tuesday,
 June 21, 2011,
 12:25
 PM
 Dave,

   How long ago
 was
 this?  Things could've
 changed
 since you last
 went
 if it's been a
 while, maybe?
 And, with respect,
 this
 is a big deal
 to
 a lot of
 us.  I know for
 me it's
 a lot more than
 a
 "small
 consideration",
 I like to
 know the
 past as much as
 I can
 because it
 shaped the here
 and
 now.  I can
 read the books
 put out
 by each

 organization-they probably
 both have
 lots of the
 truth
 intermingled
 with their
 respective
 agendas.
 But nothing
 beats
 talking to
 people
 who have studied
 the issues
 or,
 preferably, people
 who were
 actually
 there.

   All the
 best,
 Kirt

 On 6/21/11,
 David Andrews
 <dandrews at visi.com
 wrote:
 The two
 biggest things I
 noticed
 at an ACB
 national
 convention were
 that the
 crowd was
 considerably
 smaller than
 that at a
 NFB convention
 -- less
 exhibits etc.
 too.
 The second
 things was
 that there were
 few
 young
 persons -- some
 but
 noticeably not
 very
 many.  One
 of the major
 things that
 the ACB has
 pushed in
 the past is
 that it
 is different
 from the
 NFB, it does
 things
 differently
 etc.
 This doesn't
 really
 matter to
 younger people
 though,
 so they have
 little
 reason to join,
 so
 don't.

 You guys can
 spend lots
 of time on
 the
 history, and
 differences if
 you want --
 but what is
 the
 point.  It
 happened,
 it is over with
 and
 done.
 Yes we can
 and should
 learn from our
 history, but it
 is just
 one small
 consideration.

 Dave

 At 11:32 AM
 6/20/2011,
 you wrote:
 Dave,

   I do see
 your
 point.  Those
 alive at the
 time are not,
 and will

 probabluy never be
 friends.  Heck,
 getting
 them to actually
 talk in
 peace
 would be the
 achievement
 of the

 century!   if
 such a
 call were
 to
 hypothetically
 happen, how
 could we
 keep it from
 opening old
 wounds
 and
 stoking old
 fires?

   Best,
 Kirt

 On
 6/20/11, Chris
 Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:

 Dave,

 Our
 joint
 conference call
 isn't
 associated
 whatsoever with
 the

 proposition of a
 change in
 the NFB
 bylaw.  If
 I'm setting
 this
 up,
 which it
 appears I am,
 I didn't
 even have
 the intention
 of

 mentioning that
 proposition on the
 call.  The
 call's
 purpose is
 to
 learn the
 history of
 the NFB/ACB,
 with a
 little emphasis
 on
 the
 "civil war"
 period,
 from both
 sides so we
 are
 informed.  I
 also
 want this
 call to
 start a
 discussion on
 the history of
 our

 movement and what
 we can
 learn from
 it, not
 only as

 Federationists,
 but as
 blind
 students.
 Jorge and I have
 found
 some
 ways that we
 can hold
 the call
 without
 making it a
 NABS

 membership call,
 if it is
 entirely
 necessary.
 And as to
 your

 comments about
 them not
 being our
 friends,
 then using your

 argument, the
 Republicans
 should not
 hear the
 Democrats point
 of
 view
 in meetings
 of
 Congress, but
 the two
 parties should
 be

 separated from
 each other
 for fear
 of their
 own side being

 attacked.
 We can
 keep our same
 opinions, and
 probably many

 Federationists
 and Council
 members
 who attend
 this call will.
 This
 is just a
 way that we
 can be
 more
 informed when
 forming

 these opinions.



   Chris

 "A
 loss of sight,
 never a
 loss of
 vision!"
 (Camp Abilities
 motto)
 To
 learn more
 about Camp
 Abilities
 and find a
 local camp near
 you,
 just click
 on this
 link to
 their
 national Web
 site:

 www.campabilities.org.

 The
 I C.A.N.
 Foundation helps
 visually
 impaired youth
 in

 Maryland have the
 ability
 to
 confidently say
 "I can!" How?
 Click
 on
 this link to
 learn more
 and to
 contribute:

 www.icanfoundation.info.



   Sent from
 my BrailleNote



   -----
 Original Message -----

 From: David
 Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
 To:
 National
 Association
 of Blind
 Students
 mailing list

 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date
 sent: Sun,
 19 Jun
 2011 20:39:01
 -0500

 Subject: Re:
 [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes

 interview,Ride
 into
 History, Race
 for
 Independence,
 Wed.
 June
 22,
 8:00 pm EDT


 Chris:

 I
 don't want to
 friend
 anyone -- but
 I think
 this is a
 terrible

 idea!
 Remember the
 ACB split off
 from
 the NFB because
 they

 thought
 that
 we were all
 wrong,
 did our
 business in
 the wrong way
 etc.  I
 am
 not
 going to say
 that we
 can't learn
 anything
 from the ACB,
 but
 not
 a

 history
 lesson.  I
 was at a ACb
 National
 Convention a few
 years
 ago
 --
 and heard the
 NFB
 attacked openly
 and

 indirectly.  These
 folks
 are
 not
 our
 friends.  We
 can work
 jointly at
 times, and
 should, and I

 don't think we
 should be
 against
 them, for
 the sake of it,
 as
 some
 of
 my
 old-timer
 friends are
 -- but a
 joint
 conference call
 on

 consideration of
 a change
 to a NFB
 division
 bylaw is going
 to

 far!


 Dave

 At
 12:53 PM
 6/19/2011, you
 wrote:

 Kirt,

 I
 have a friend
 in the
 Council that
 I will
 see Monday
 night, so I
 plan
 to give this
 idea to
 him and
 ask if he
 knows someone in
 the

 Council that
 would be
 knowledgeable
 enough
 and willing to
 attend
 this
 call on
 behalf of the
 Council
 as an
 expert on their
 history.

 Maybe it would be
 better
 if someone
 like me
 moderated.
 Keep in

 mind
 that
 I did
 volunteer, but
 I'm not
 degrading
 anyone else, I'm
 just

 using myself as
 an example
 here.
 I'm a
 member of the
 Federation,
 but
 I'm not a
 hard-line
 "NFB is
 good, ACB
 bad" person, so
 I

 wouldn't
 show
 any bias to
 NFB or
 ACB.  I
 also am
 not currently a

 contributing

 (due-paying)
 member of
 NABS, so I'm
 not a
 leader in it of

 course.
 That way, we
 wouldn't have
 any
 bias.
 I
 think it would
 be easy
 to have it
 jointly
 attended even if
 it's
 an

 official NABS
 call.
 If we have a
 representative
 of ACB on the

 call,
 we
 could probably
 easily
 get other
 members of
 ACB on the call
 to
 kind
 of back up
 or add to
 that
 guest
 speaker's
 information.

 Thoughts?


 Chris

 "A
 loss of sight,
 never a
 loss of
 vision!"
 (Camp Abilities
 motto)
 To
 learn more
 about Camp
 Abilities
 and find a
 local camp near

 you,
 just
 click on
 this link to
 their
 national Web
 site:

 www.campabilities.org.

 The
 I C.A.N.
 Foundation helps
 visually
 impaired youth
 in

 Maryland
 have
 the ability
 to
 confidently say
 "I can!"
 How? Click on
 this

 link
 to
 learn more and
 to
 contribute:

 www.icanfoundation.info.

 Sent
 from my
 BrailleNote


 ----- Original
 Message
 -----

 From: Kirt
 Manwaring
 <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 To:
 National
 Association
 of Blind
 Students
 mailing list

 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date
 sent: Sun,
 19 Jun
 2011 00:45:08
 -0600

 Subject: Re:
 [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes

 interview,Ride
 into
 History, Race
 for
 Independence,
 Wed.
 June
 22,
 8:00 pm EDT


 Carley,

    The
 two
 organizations don't
 really claim to
 be "friends"
 as

 such-it

 seems like now
 they just
 mostly
 ignore each
 other, work
 jointly

 when

 their agendas
 converge and
 play
 politics when
 they
 don't.  Maybe

 they

 aren't enemies,
 but the
 official
 organizations
 don't really

 advertise

 themselves as
 friends.

 While it
 would be great to
 have people from
 both
 organizations

 participate in a
 joint
 call, I don't
 see it
 happening.
 Here's

 hoping

 though, I
 guess  It's
 certainly a
 nice

 thought-although, if the

 call
 were
 to have
 presentations
 from
 members of
 both
 organizations, it

 probably should
 be jointly
 moderated
 and
 attended.
 The NFB (or

 probably even
 NABS) would,
 I'm
 betting, not
 be inclined to
 go

 there.
 So
 maybe we'll
 have better
 luck
 going through
 unnoficial
 channels
 and

 setting this up
 on our
 own?  No
 need to
 make it an
 official event
 for

 either the
 Federation or
 the
 Council-I think
 it's safe to
 say

 that
 idea
 was doomed
 to fail
 before it
 was brought
 up.

 Best,

 Kirt

 On
 6/18/11, Chris
 Nusbaum
 <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 wrote:
 And,
 as I said
 before, I
 would be
 very
 willing to
 moderate this

 call.
 Please keep me
 posted!


 Chris

 "A
 loss of sight,
 never a
 loss of
 vision!"
 (Camp Abilities
 motto)
 To
 learn more
 about Camp
 Abilities
 and find a
 local camp near
 you,
 just click
 on this
 link to
 their
 national Web
 site:

 www.campabilities.org.

 The
 I C.A.N.
 Foundation helps
 visually
 impaired youth
 in

 Maryland have the
 ability
 to
 confidently say
 "I can!" How?
 Click
 on
 this link to
 learn more
 and to
 contribute:

 www.icanfoundation.info.


    Sent
 from my
 BrailleNote


 -----
 Original Message
 -----

 From: Ignasi
 Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
 To:
 National
 Association
 of Blind
 Students
 mailing list

 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date
 sent: Sat,
 18 Jun
 2011 18:51:04
 -0400

 Subject: Re:
 [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list]
 Threw Our Eyes

 interview,Ride
 into
 History, Race
 for
 Independence,
 Wed.
 June
 22,
 8:00 pm EDT

 This
 call would
 be very
 interesting
 indeed.
 If
 representatives
 from
 both
 organizations
 are willing
 to
 participate, it
 can really
 be
 productive in
 many
 ways.
 On
 Jun 18, 2011,
 at 1:46
 PM, Carly
 Mihalakis
 wrote:




    Good
 morning,
 list,


    A
 few days
 ago, someone on
 the NABS
 list  suggested
 a

 conference
 call
 bringing
 clarity to a
 younger

 generation.  What,
 exactly, is
 the
 history of
 the
 ideological
 parting of
 ways, between
 the

 Federation and
 the
 Council? Does
 anybody know
 today, the
 history
 of
 this division
 or is it
 a product
 of sheer
 habit as is the
 case
 with
 Republicans
 and
 Democrats? If
 such a
 meeting of both

 entities were to
 take
 place, There
 ought to
 be
 representation of

 both
 organizations
 so that a
 wholistic
 portrait of this
 issue
 can
 be
 exercised.


    and
 its split
 from the
 ACB.  This
 seems like a
 productive and

 enlightening
 discussion
 but I
 wonder, if the
 Federation and
 the

 council claim to
 be
 friends, should
 there not
 be
 representation

 from
 both   sides,
 identifying
 their position
 and
 whereabouts
 they
 stand, in
 this? At

    ----
 Original
 Message
 ------

 From: "Joe
 Ruffalo" <nfbnj at yahoo.com
 (by way of
 David

 Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)

 Subject:

 [Nfbnet-members-list] Thru
 Our Eyes
 interview,
 Ride
 into
 History,Race
 for
 Independence,
 Wed.  June
 22, 8:00 pm
 EDT

    Date
 sent:
 Fri, 17 Jun 2011
 19:26:45 -0500



    Save
 The
 Date:


    On
 Wednesday,
 June 22,at
 8:00 pm eastern,
 Thru Our
 Eyes host,
 Joe

 Ruffalo will
 interview
 Parnell Diggs,
 chair of the
 Imagination

 Fund,

    Race
 for
 Independence.


    The
 interview
 will highlight
 current and past
 grants
 awarded to

 state

 affiliates
 and chapters.

    In
 addition,
 featured will
 be Imaginators
 who will share
 the

 methods

    to
 make the
 ask to make a
 difference in
 changing what
 it means
 to
 be blind.


 Special
 highlight of the
 interview will
 be the
 announcement of
 the
 30

 winners who
 will have the
 opportunity to
 be driven by a
 blind

 driver

 while
 attending

    the
 national
 convention in
 Orlando.


 Witness the
 opportunity to
 ride into
 history!


    To
 watch and
 listen to the
 interview,
 please visit the

 following:

 <http://www.thruoureyes.org>www.thruoureyes.org


    For
 JAWS
 users and mobile
 phone users,
 please visit
 the

 following:


 m.thruoureyes.org


 Other options
 to watch or
 listen can be
 found on the
 sites

 listed above.


    To
 call in
 with comments or
 questions,
 please dial the

 following:

    1
 888 572
 0141

    Join
 us to
 Make a
 Difference!







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