[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
T. Joseph Carter
carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
Sat Jun 25 10:56:33 UTC 2011
Courtney,
I agree with your assertion that it is not a necessity. Yet it is
something that many who are blind (myself included) feel should be
done all the same. I’m still not sure what shape more accessible
currency will take, but I hope that it is not a simple subsidizing of
the inefficient technologies we’ve already got. A low-tech solution
is needed.
Or, if the solution is high-tech, it should involve very simple and
affordable electronics along possibly with some kind of counterfeit
protection benefit as well. A bar code readable only under a UV
light, perhaps? That’d be an instant read for a device, and in fact
it could read it twice, first with the UV and then without it. If
the bar code can be read both times, the bill is a forgery. That
kind of thing.
Of course, such a system requires replacing all paper currency in
circulation today. This is not a trivial task, but it can be
accomplished in years rather than decades using methods I have
described in the past.
My preference is still for progressively shorter bills as
denomination decreases, but this requires the dollar bill to become
about 2/3 its current length, and anyone who owns vending machines
will scream bloody murder about the cost of retrofitting their
hardware for that!
Joseph
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:21:57PM -0500, Courtney Stover wrote:
>Anmol,
>
>Whoa, whoa, whoa! Let's keep things in context here.
>
>The problem with accessible currency is that it is not a necessity for
>blind people to live productive, independent lives. Numerous currency
>identifying solutions have been discussed on this list, many of which
>take less than a minute to work properly.
>
>The ramps/elevators mandated by the ADA were the only viable way for
>people in wheelchairs to access many biznesses. As a person who
>formerly used a wheelchair, I can tell you that the exhaustion and
>pain of attempting not only to navigate an inaccessible entrance, but
>bringing your chair along, too is enormous. And I was lucky and could
>transfer out of my chair and walk quite a distance/up stairs, if
>slowly. There are many who can not, meaning they'd essentially be
>barred from establishments unless they could get five or six large men
>to lift both them and their chair, which really really isn't feesible.
>
>The currency is an inconvenience thing, at best; yes, if you don't
>have an Apple device, you may have to save up for several months or
>longer to purchase the IBill, but as you've gone your entire life
>without an IBill, a few more months won't make that much of a
>difference.
>
>Let's please not compare apples and oranges, or conflate our
>experiences with those of other minority groups who had considerably
>greater challenges before the ADA's passage.
>Respectfully submitted,
>Courtney
>
>On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kirt,
>> I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of Indian currency
>> has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending machines or
>> ATM were invented. True it is not fair for millions of sighted individuals
>> to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning ATM and
>> vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which individuals
>> have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes out; but if
>> we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from advancing our
>> goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for the blind
>> we would never achieve anything. If we used the fairness arguement as you
>> described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be mandated to build
>> ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons in wheelchair can have
>> equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society where only
>> majority have access and opportunity to life because making
>> adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary changes to
>> make certain aspects of life accessible is unfair to the majority, or do we
>> want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost so that
>> their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can have equal
>> opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness arguement, then
>> the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional and it was the
>> main reason why many businesses were opposed to it. Redesigning the currency
>> may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon be a part of
>> life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems. Many sighted
>> people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many sighted people
>> who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and the little
>> inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring greater
>> opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
>>
>> best
>> Anmol
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
>>> Anmol,
>>> I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
>>> infrastructure. I just
>>> think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
>>> replaced. I'd
>>> be interested to know if India's currency has been of
>>> different sizes
>>> ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
>>> Just think of it this way. How many times do
>>> you see an ATM in a
>>> convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
>>> supermarket? If
>>> we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
>>> marks, all
>>> those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
>>> replaced. I'm
>>> sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
>>> worth the
>>> cost for most people involved. It's not fair to the
>>> however many
>>> million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
>>> all their
>>> ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
>>> But, like I
>>> said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
>>> off
>>> something that will work.
>>> Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Kirt,
>>> > Actually there is a large infrastructure in India. The
>>> thing is that
>>> > identifiable currency has just become a part of life
>>> and I don't think it
>>> > was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
>>> it was designed. So
>>> > why was the Indian currency designed in different
>>> sizes? I am not sure, but
>>> > the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
>>> cost to do this can
>>> > not be that high since there are not many resources
>>> and frankly it is hard
>>> > to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
>>> people with disabilities
>>> > is rare. Perfect example of what can be possible in
>>> the US.
>>> > Anmol
>>> >
>>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>>> make me sad. Perhaps
>>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>>> vague, like a breeze
>>> > among flowers.
>>> > Hellen Keller
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>> >> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
>>> 8:00 pm EDT
>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing list"
>>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
>>> >> Anmol,
>>> >> I should never say I'm leaving-people always
>>> say
>>> >> stuff and I can't
>>> >> stay away. Here's the thing about India. As
>>> >> large as the population
>>> >> is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
>>> to
>>> >> replace. I hope
>>> >> that will change as India's economy becomes more
>>> and more
>>> >> developed
>>> >> and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
>>> now, I
>>> >> think doing
>>> >> this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
>>> because
>>> >> of all the
>>> >> machinery that would need to be redone.
>>> >> Best,
>>> >> Kirt
>>> >>
>>> >> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Kirt,
>>> >> > The population of UK may be five times less
>>> then US,
>>> >> but the population of
>>> >> > my country of India is 1 billion almost
>>> three
>>> >> times more then the US and
>>> >> > still we have currency wich can be
>>> identifiable by the
>>> >> blind. So if India
>>> >> > can make the transition without a problem,
>>> then it
>>> >> should not be that
>>> >> > difficult for the US.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Anmol
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>>> never
>>> >> make me sad. Perhaps
>>> >> > there is just a touch of yearning at times;
>>> but it is
>>> >> vague, like a breeze
>>> >> > among flowers.
>>> >> > Hellen Keller
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>>> [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>>> >> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>> >> >> into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>>> June 22,
>>> >> 8:00 pm EDT
>>> >> >> To: "National Association of Blind
>>> Students
>>> >> mailing list"
>>> >> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> >> Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
>>> >> >> Carley,
>>> >> >> Cool! I've never been a science
>>> guy. I'm
>>> >> >> going to straite my brain
>>> >> >> and leave the list for a couple days.
>>> Enjoy,
>>> >> >> everyone.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Hi, Kurt,
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > As I understand it, a muscle
>>> striates when it
>>> >> is
>>> >> >> active. If
>>> >> >> > therefore, a law, procedure or
>>> cultural norm
>>> >> striates,
>>> >> >> it flexes its
>>> >> >> > muscle, thus changing states.
>>> >> >> > Have fun, Kurt!
>>> >> >> > Car23/2011, you wrote:
>>> >> >> >>Carly,
>>> >> >> >> I'm not exactly sure what
>>> a
>>> >> >> striation is. The NFBwas opposed to
>>> >> >> >>such a measure, and I think they
>>> were
>>> >> right to be
>>> >> >> against it for
>>> >> >> >>reasons I've already mentioned.
>>> But,
>>> >> after
>>> >> >> the federal court judge
>>> >> >> >>decided to side with the ACB, the
>>> NFB
>>> >> decided,
>>> >> >> rightly, that it may as
>>> >> >> >>well be a part of the process
>>> since it was
>>> >> going to
>>> >> >> happen anyway. I
>>> >> >> >>don't really see the harm in
>>> this, do
>>> >> you?
>>> >> >> >> Best,
>>> >> >> >>Kirt
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
>>> <carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > Good morning, Kirt,
>>> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> > 'Seems to
>>> >> >> me though, that one ought to be able to
>>> determine
>>> >> >> >> > shades of their own
>>> reality, which
>>> >> is how I
>>> >> >> understand the Federation
>>> >> >> >> > wants its members, to
>>> conduct
>>> >> themselves, in
>>> >> >> the world. Yet, beyond
>>> >> >> >> > the elaborate striations
>>> the
>>> >> existing system
>>> >> >> will need to experience,
>>> >> >> >> > if such a change were to be
>>> made,
>>> >> how come
>>> >> >> the Federation
>>> >> >> >> > didn't speak up when it
>>> was asked,
>>> >> by
>>> >> >> the Mint last time that entity
>>> >> >> >> > produced curency?
>>> >> >> >> > :
>>> >> >> >> >>Carly,
>>> >> >> >> >> We all make
>>> >> >> mistakes. No worries.
>>> >> >> >> >> Now, just for the
>>> heck
>>> >> >> of it, I'd like to address a point I
>>> think
>>> >> >> >> >>you made earlier. (I'm
>>> only
>>> >> >> guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
>>> >> >> >> >>the whole message to
>>> me) But I
>>> >> think
>>> >> >> you said something like this.
>>> >> >> >> >>"The federation is kind
>>> of
>>> >> hypocritical
>>> >> >> because they rap ad noseum
>>> >> >> >> >>about independence but
>>> are stuck
>>> >> relying
>>> >> >> on sighted people to help
>>> >> >> >> >>them-depending on
>>> another person
>>> >> isn't
>>> >> >> independence at all!" If I'm
>>> >> >> >> >>off the mark, I'm sorry,
>>> but I
>>> >> can see you
>>> >> >> saying something like that
>>> >> >> >> >>so it's just my guess of
>>> what you
>>> >> said
>>> >> >> from the little bit gmail was
>>> >> >> >> >>able to read me.
>>> >> >> >> >> Here's the thing
>>> about
>>> >> >> that. Independence does not mean do
>>> >> >> >> >>everything by yourself
>>> all the
>>> >> time.
>>> >> >> It simply means you can do what
>>> >> >> >> >>you want to, when you
>>> want to do
>>> >> it, in a
>>> >> >> way that's efficient and
>>> >> >> >> >>works for you. It
>>> means,
>>> >> basically,
>>> >> >> that you aren't subject to
>>> >> >> >> >>another person's vision
>>> of your
>>> >> life, you
>>> >> >> do things the way you wish
>>> >> >> >> >>to do them. It also
>>> means you
>>> >> do
>>> >> >> this without really making anyone
>>> >> >> >> >>else go much out of
>>> their way to
>>> >> help
>>> >> >> you.
>>> >> >> >> >> So think of it
>>> this
>>> >> >> way. Every store already has a sighted
>>> worker,
>>> >> >> >> >>most of those will be
>>> honest,
>>> >> almost all
>>> >> >> will be honest with other
>>> >> >> >> >>people watching. If
>>> you ask
>>> >> that
>>> >> >> person "hey, what's this bill you're
>>> >> >> >> >>handing me?" that's in
>>> no way
>>> >> compromising
>>> >> >> your independence. Using
>>> >> >> >> >>technology is better
>>> because it
>>> >> takes away
>>> >> >> the outside chance that
>>> >> >> >> >>someone's trying to pull
>>> off some
>>> >> funny
>>> >> >> business but, without the
>>> >> >> >> >>technology, you're still
>>> probably
>>> >> safe
>>> >> >> most of the time. As we've
>>> >> >> >> >>seen already from other
>>> posts,
>>> >> nothing is
>>> >> >> fool proof.
>>> >> >> >> >> But back to
>>> independence
>>> >> >> and philosophy and stuff. Have you
>>> ever
>>> >> >> >> >>used a reader? If you
>>> have,
>>> >> you're
>>> >> >> using another person, who's
>>> >> >> >> >>chosing to do something
>>> they
>>> >> don't have to
>>> >> >> do; either they get money
>>> >> >> >> >>or they don't, but it
>>> works
>>> >> because you
>>> >> >> get the job done and you
>>> >> >> >> >>aren't forcing them to
>>> do it for
>>> >> >> you. They chose to provide their
>>> >> >> >> >>time to read you
>>> something-you
>>> >> aren't
>>> >> >> making them do anything. Have
>>> >> >> >> >>you ever used a sighted
>>> guide?
>>> >> I do,
>>> >> >> all the time. (I'm starting to
>>> >> >> >> >>less and less just to
>>> keep my
>>> >> cane skills
>>> >> >> up but sometimes it's just
>>> >> >> >> >>the most efficient way
>>> to get
>>> >> stuff
>>> >> >> done.) You can get somewhere
>>> >> >> >> >>independently and use a
>>> sighted
>>> >> guide, as
>>> >> >> long as you're getting there
>>> >> >> >> >>on your terms and you
>>> could do it
>>> >> without
>>> >> >> a guide there.
>>> >> >> >> >> See what I'm
>>> >> >> saying? Independent and interdependent
>>> aren't
>>> >> >> mutually
>>> >> >> >> >>exclusive.
>>> >> >> >> >> Best,
>>> >> >> >> >>Kirt
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >>On 6/23/11, Carly
>>> Mihalakis
>>> >> <carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > 'Morning, Kurt,
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> 'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
>>> with all
>>> >> those I'd
>>> >> >> say
>>> >> >> >> >> > off the wall
>>> comments,
>>> >> about the
>>> >> >> Ibill.
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > Now a truth
>>> immerges which
>>> >> I failed
>>> >> >> to state clearly, before.
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > 'was confused with
>>> the
>>> >> NoteTeller 2
>>> >> >> which, experience has shown me is
>>> >> >> >> >> > unreliable, at
>>> best.
>>> >> >> >> >> > Carly even the
>>> person
>>> >> >> >> >> >> > showing
>>> them
>>> >> couild not
>>> >> >> make them work.
>>> >> >> >> >> >> > It's
>>> interesting
>>> >> however
>>> >> >> that folks on this List have found good
>>> >> >> >> >> >> > luck
>>> >> >> >> >> >> > with
>>> them.
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>>> Carwrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>That
>>> is your
>>> >> experience
>>> >> >> -- mine is that the iBill works quite
>>> well
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- and
>>> I think
>>> >> others
>>> >> >> have found this to be true too.
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>Dave
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>At
>>> 05:08 PM
>>> >> 6/22/2011,
>>> >> >> you wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>Hi,
>>> >> Hamberto and all
>>> >> >> interested folks,
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>Truth be
>>> >> known, my
>>> >> >> common law husband and I had the I bill,
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>courtesy of
>>> >> rehab
>>> >> >> but, after repeated attempts to make the
>>> thing
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>identify
>>> >> paper
>>> >> >> currency, we ascertained it a genuine
>>> piece of
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> shit
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>and is not
>>> >> worth
>>> >> >> anything, so I submit that the
>>> manufacturers
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> must
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>be
>>> well
>>> >> aware of
>>> >> >> their having themselves a niche market,
>>> in blind
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>people and
>>> >> the deep
>>> >> >> pocketed agencies who tend to support
>>> them,
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> so
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>are
>>> >> totally
>>> >> >> exploiting it in the manner of any
>>> Capitalist
>>> >> aware
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>
>>> of
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>the
>>> >> exisstance of a
>>> >> >> small and needy marketplace.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>So, in
>>> >> essence,
>>> >> >> don't waste your's or rehab's time with
>>> the I
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>bill! 02:11
>>> >> PM
>>> >> >> 6/22/2011, you wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>Hello,
>>> >> but what
>>> >> >> happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
>>> want
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> to
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> know
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> what
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>it is,
>>> >> but there
>>> >> >> is not a single sighted soul to tell me
>>> what it
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> is? I
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> know
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>is a
>>> >> free
>>> >> >> alternative but, is it truly worth it?
>>> And, what
>>> >> if
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> that
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> sighted
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>person
>>> >> lies
>>> >> >> about the amount of money that is on the
>>> bill?
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>I would
>>> >> probably
>>> >> >> support ideas like the KNFB reader and
>>> the
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> iBill
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> identifier
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>if they
>>> >> were
>>> >> >> even cheaper. If they were so, I would
>>> buy one or
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>> the
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>
>>> >> other,
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >>>>but so
>>> >> far, I
>>> >> >> can not afford either one.
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>nabs-l
>>> mailing
>>> >> list
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>To
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>>> >> >> your list options or get your account
>>> info
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> for
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> nabs-l:
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%4
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> 0earthlink.net
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >>
>>> _______________________________________________
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