[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Koby Cox
kobycox at gmail.com
Sat Jun 25 23:28:25 UTC 2011
Can you email me off list?
Koby.
sent from my iphone
On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:21 PM, Courtney Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com> wrote:
> Anmol,
>
> Whoa, whoa, whoa! Let's keep things in context here.
>
> The problem with accessible currency is that it is not a necessity for
> blind people to live productive, independent lives. Numerous currency
> identifying solutions have been discussed on this list, many of which
> take less than a minute to work properly.
>
> The ramps/elevators mandated by the ADA were the only viable way for
> people in wheelchairs to access many biznesses. As a person who
> formerly used a wheelchair, I can tell you that the exhaustion and
> pain of attempting not only to navigate an inaccessible entrance, but
> bringing your chair along, too is enormous. And I was lucky and could
> transfer out of my chair and walk quite a distance/up stairs, if
> slowly. There are many who can not, meaning they'd essentially be
> barred from establishments unless they could get five or six large men
> to lift both them and their chair, which really really isn't feesible.
>
> The currency is an inconvenience thing, at best; yes, if you don't
> have an Apple device, you may have to save up for several months or
> longer to purchase the IBill, but as you've gone your entire life
> without an IBill, a few more months won't make that much of a
> difference.
>
> Let's please not compare apples and oranges, or conflate our
> experiences with those of other minority groups who had considerably
> greater challenges before the ADA's passage.
> Respectfully submitted,
> Courtney
>
> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kirt,
>> I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of Indian currency
>> has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending machines or
>> ATM were invented. True it is not fair for millions of sighted individuals
>> to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning ATM and
>> vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which individuals
>> have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes out; but if
>> we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from advancing our
>> goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for the blind
>> we would never achieve anything. If we used the fairness arguement as you
>> described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be mandated to build
>> ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons in wheelchair can have
>> equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society where only
>> majority have access and opportunity to life because making
>> adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary changes to
>> make certain aspects of life accessible is unfair to the majority, or do we
>> want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost so that
>> their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can have equal
>> opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness arguement, then
>> the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional and it was the
>> main reason why many businesses were opposed to it. Redesigning the currency
>> may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon be a part of
>> life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems. Many sighted
>> people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many sighted people
>> who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and the little
>> inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring greater
>> opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
>>
>> best
>> Anmol
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
>>> Anmol,
>>> I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
>>> infrastructure. I just
>>> think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
>>> replaced. I'd
>>> be interested to know if India's currency has been of
>>> different sizes
>>> ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
>>> Just think of it this way. How many times do
>>> you see an ATM in a
>>> convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
>>> supermarket? If
>>> we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
>>> marks, all
>>> those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
>>> replaced. I'm
>>> sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
>>> worth the
>>> cost for most people involved. It's not fair to the
>>> however many
>>> million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
>>> all their
>>> ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
>>> But, like I
>>> said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
>>> off
>>> something that will work.
>>> Best,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Kirt,
>>>> Actually there is a large infrastructure in India. The
>>> thing is that
>>>> identifiable currency has just become a part of life
>>> and I don't think it
>>>> was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
>>> it was designed. So
>>>> why was the Indian currency designed in different
>>> sizes? I am not sure, but
>>>> the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
>>> cost to do this can
>>>> not be that high since there are not many resources
>>> and frankly it is hard
>>>> to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
>>> people with disabilities
>>>> is rare. Perfect example of what can be possible in
>>> the US.
>>>> Anmol
>>>>
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>>> make me sad. Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>>> vague, like a breeze
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>>>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
>>> 8:00 pm EDT
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
>>>>> Anmol,
>>>>> I should never say I'm leaving-people always
>>> say
>>>>> stuff and I can't
>>>>> stay away. Here's the thing about India. As
>>>>> large as the population
>>>>> is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
>>> to
>>>>> replace. I hope
>>>>> that will change as India's economy becomes more
>>> and more
>>>>> developed
>>>>> and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
>>> now, I
>>>>> think doing
>>>>> this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
>>> because
>>>>> of all the
>>>>> machinery that would need to be redone.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>> The population of UK may be five times less
>>> then US,
>>>>> but the population of
>>>>>> my country of India is 1 billion almost
>>> three
>>>>> times more then the US and
>>>>>> still we have currency wich can be
>>> identifiable by the
>>>>> blind. So if India
>>>>>> can make the transition without a problem,
>>> then it
>>>>> should not be that
>>>>>> difficult for the US.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anmol
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>>> never
>>>>> make me sad. Perhaps
>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times;
>>> but it is
>>>>> vague, like a breeze
>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>>> [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>>>>> Our Eyes interview, Ride
>>>>>>> into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>>> June 22,
>>>>> 8:00 pm EDT
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind
>>> Students
>>>>> mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
>>>>>>> Carley,
>>>>>>> Cool! I've never been a science
>>> guy. I'm
>>>>>>> going to straite my brain
>>>>>>> and leave the list for a couple days.
>>> Enjoy,
>>>>>>> everyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi, Kurt,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As I understand it, a muscle
>>> striates when it
>>>>> is
>>>>>>> active. If
>>>>>>>> therefore, a law, procedure or
>>> cultural norm
>>>>> striates,
>>>>>>> it flexes its
>>>>>>>> muscle, thus changing states.
>>>>>>>> Have fun, Kurt!
>>>>>>>> Car23/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Carly,
>>>>>>>>> I'm not exactly sure what
>>> a
>>>>>>> striation is. The NFBwas opposed to
>>>>>>>>> such a measure, and I think they
>>> were
>>>>> right to be
>>>>>>> against it for
>>>>>>>>> reasons I've already mentioned.
>>> But,
>>>>> after
>>>>>>> the federal court judge
>>>>>>>>> decided to side with the ACB, the
>>> NFB
>>>>> decided,
>>>>>>> rightly, that it may as
>>>>>>>>> well be a part of the process
>>> since it was
>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> happen anyway. I
>>>>>>>>> don't really see the harm in
>>> this, do
>>>>> you?
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
>>> <carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good morning, Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 'Seems to
>>>>>>> me though, that one ought to be able to
>>> determine
>>>>>>>>>> shades of their own
>>> reality, which
>>>>> is how I
>>>>>>> understand the Federation
>>>>>>>>>> wants its members, to
>>> conduct
>>>>> themselves, in
>>>>>>> the world. Yet, beyond
>>>>>>>>>> the elaborate striations
>>> the
>>>>> existing system
>>>>>>> will need to experience,
>>>>>>>>>> if such a change were to be
>>> made,
>>>>> how come
>>>>>>> the Federation
>>>>>>>>>> didn't speak up when it
>>> was asked,
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> the Mint last time that entity
>>>>>>>>>> produced curency?
>>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>>> Carly,
>>>>>>>>>>> We all make
>>>>>>> mistakes. No worries.
>>>>>>>>>>> Now, just for the
>>> heck
>>>>>>> of it, I'd like to address a point I
>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>> you made earlier. (I'm
>>> only
>>>>>>> guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
>>>>>>>>>>> the whole message to
>>> me) But I
>>>>> think
>>>>>>> you said something like this.
>>>>>>>>>>> "The federation is kind
>>> of
>>>>> hypocritical
>>>>>>> because they rap ad noseum
>>>>>>>>>>> about independence but
>>> are stuck
>>>>> relying
>>>>>>> on sighted people to help
>>>>>>>>>>> them-depending on
>>> another person
>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>> independence at all!" If I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> off the mark, I'm sorry,
>>> but I
>>>>> can see you
>>>>>>> saying something like that
>>>>>>>>>>> so it's just my guess of
>>> what you
>>>>> said
>>>>>>> from the little bit gmail was
>>>>>>>>>>> able to read me.
>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the thing
>>> about
>>>>>>> that. Independence does not mean do
>>>>>>>>>>> everything by yourself
>>> all the
>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> It simply means you can do what
>>>>>>>>>>> you want to, when you
>>> want to do
>>>>> it, in a
>>>>>>> way that's efficient and
>>>>>>>>>>> works for you. It
>>> means,
>>>>> basically,
>>>>>>> that you aren't subject to
>>>>>>>>>>> another person's vision
>>> of your
>>>>> life, you
>>>>>>> do things the way you wish
>>>>>>>>>>> to do them. It also
>>> means you
>>>>> do
>>>>>>> this without really making anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> else go much out of
>>> their way to
>>>>> help
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>> So think of it
>>> this
>>>>>>> way. Every store already has a sighted
>>> worker,
>>>>>>>>>>> most of those will be
>>> honest,
>>>>> almost all
>>>>>>> will be honest with other
>>>>>>>>>>> people watching. If
>>> you ask
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> person "hey, what's this bill you're
>>>>>>>>>>> handing me?" that's in
>>> no way
>>>>> compromising
>>>>>>> your independence. Using
>>>>>>>>>>> technology is better
>>> because it
>>>>> takes away
>>>>>>> the outside chance that
>>>>>>>>>>> someone's trying to pull
>>> off some
>>>>> funny
>>>>>>> business but, without the
>>>>>>>>>>> technology, you're still
>>> probably
>>>>> safe
>>>>>>> most of the time. As we've
>>>>>>>>>>> seen already from other
>>> posts,
>>>>> nothing is
>>>>>>> fool proof.
>>>>>>>>>>> But back to
>>> independence
>>>>>>> and philosophy and stuff. Have you
>>> ever
>>>>>>>>>>> used a reader? If you
>>> have,
>>>>> you're
>>>>>>> using another person, who's
>>>>>>>>>>> chosing to do something
>>> they
>>>>> don't have to
>>>>>>> do; either they get money
>>>>>>>>>>> or they don't, but it
>>> works
>>>>> because you
>>>>>>> get the job done and you
>>>>>>>>>>> aren't forcing them to
>>> do it for
>>>>>>> you. They chose to provide their
>>>>>>>>>>> time to read you
>>> something-you
>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>> making them do anything. Have
>>>>>>>>>>> you ever used a sighted
>>> guide?
>>>>> I do,
>>>>>>> all the time. (I'm starting to
>>>>>>>>>>> less and less just to
>>> keep my
>>>>> cane skills
>>>>>>> up but sometimes it's just
>>>>>>>>>>> the most efficient way
>>> to get
>>>>> stuff
>>>>>>> done.) You can get somewhere
>>>>>>>>>>> independently and use a
>>> sighted
>>>>> guide, as
>>>>>>> long as you're getting there
>>>>>>>>>>> on your terms and you
>>> could do it
>>>>> without
>>>>>>> a guide there.
>>>>>>>>>>> See what I'm
>>>>>>> saying? Independent and interdependent
>>> aren't
>>>>>>> mutually
>>>>>>>>>>> exclusive.
>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/23/11, Carly
>>> Mihalakis
>>>>> <carlymih at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Morning, Kurt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
>>> with all
>>>>> those I'd
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>> off the wall
>>> comments,
>>>>> about the
>>>>>>> Ibill.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now a truth
>>> immerges which
>>>>> I failed
>>>>>>> to state clearly, before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'was confused with
>>> the
>>>>> NoteTeller 2
>>>>>>> which, experience has shown me is
>>>>>>>>>>>> unreliable, at
>>> best.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Carly even the
>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> showing
>>> them
>>>>> couild not
>>>>>>> make them work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's
>>> interesting
>>>>> however
>>>>>>> that folks on this List have found good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> luck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> Carwrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That
>>> is your
>>>>> experience
>>>>>>> -- mine is that the iBill works quite
>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- and
>>> I think
>>>>> others
>>>>>>> have found this to be true too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At
>>> 05:08 PM
>>>>> 6/22/2011,
>>>>>>> you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Hamberto and all
>>>>>>> interested folks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Truth be
>>>>> known, my
>>>>>>> common law husband and I had the I bill,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> courtesy of
>>>>> rehab
>>>>>>> but, after repeated attempts to make the
>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> identify
>>>>> paper
>>>>>>> currency, we ascertained it a genuine
>>> piece of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> shit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and is not
>>>>> worth
>>>>>>> anything, so I submit that the
>>> manufacturers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>> well
>>>>> aware of
>>>>>>> their having themselves a niche market,
>>> in blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> people and
>>>>> the deep
>>>>>>> pocketed agencies who tend to support
>>> them,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> are
>>>>> totally
>>>>>>> exploiting it in the manner of any
>>> Capitalist
>>>>> aware
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>> exisstance of a
>>>>>>> small and needy marketplace.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, in
>>>>> essence,
>>>>>>> don't waste your's or rehab's time with
>>> the I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> bill! 02:11
>>>>> PM
>>>>>>> 6/22/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> but what
>>>>>>> happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it is,
>>>>> but there
>>>>>>> is not a single sighted soul to tell me
>>> what it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is a
>>>>> free
>>>>>>> alternative but, is it truly worth it?
>>> And, what
>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> person
>>>>> lies
>>>>>>> about the amount of money that is on the
>>> bill?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would
>>>>> probably
>>>>>>> support ideas like the KNFB reader and
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> iBill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> identifier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if they
>>>>> were
>>>>>>> even cheaper. If they were so, I would
>>> buy one or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> other,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but so
>>>>> far, I
>>>>>>> can not afford either one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l
>>> mailing
>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>> unsubscribe,
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
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