[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Sun Jun 26 15:33:56 UTC 2011


Kirt,

I say "take it when you can get it!" We're debating something 
that's going to happen anyway, which is fine, but the accessible 
currency is still going to be made no matter what we say.  ACB 
won the case.  Even if it is a luxury, let's take that luxury 
when we can get it!

 Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near 
you, just click on this link to their national Web site: 
www.campabilities.org.

The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in 
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click 
on this link to learn more and to contribute: 
www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.  
Foundation.

Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:52:02 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 
22, 8:00 pm EDT

Car,
  That was two words.  ;)  I know I'm a jerk.
  I still think the cost is too high.  If the government is going 
to
spend millions of dollars that don't need to be spent (nothing 
new
there), I can honestly think of more ways they could do it.  How 
a
bout just cut every blind person in America a check for a 
thousand
dollars?  That would be cheaper than replacing all the cash out 
there
with newer bills of different size, or with tactile marks, or
whatever.  And, honestly, I'd probably get more use out of it.
  Best,
Kirt

On 6/24/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:


 Hi, Arielle,

 In a word it is absolutely, worth it!
 Yet, if people in power are reluctant to change existiing
 infrastructure then divices needed to discern, individual 
currency,
 ought to be FREE in the name of total equality.
 for today,
 Car
 :25 PM 6/24/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote:
Hi all,
I think there is a difference between having currency designed a
certain way from the get-go, and having to change what has 
already
been designed.  So comparing India which has had identifiable 
currency
since it became independent with the situation in the U.S.  which 
would
have to redesign the money from scratch is not really 
appropriate.  I
agree that having bills be identifiable by touch is useful for 
many
reasons, both for the blind and the sighted.  But is it worth the 
cost
of having to redesign what has already been created?
Arielle

On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:


 Kirt,
 I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of 
Indian
 currency
 has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending 
machines
 or
 ATM were invented.  True it is not fair for millions of sighted
 individuals
 to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning 
ATM and
 vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which 
individuals
 have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes 
out; but
 if
 we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from 
advancing
 our
 goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for 
the
 blind
 we would never achieve anything.  If we used the fairness 
arguement as
 you
 described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be
 mandated to build
 ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons
 in  wheelchair can have
 equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society 
where
 only
 majority have access and opportunity to life because making
  adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary 
changes
 to
 make certain aspects of life accessible  is unfair to the
 majority, or do we
 want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost 
so that
 their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can 
have equal
 opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness 
arguement,
 then
 the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional 
and
 it was the
 main reason why many businesses were opposed to it.  Redesigning
 the currency
 may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon 
be a part
 of
 life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems.  Many 
sighted
 people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many
 sighted people
 who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and 
the
 little
 inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring 
greater
 opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.

 best
 Anmol

 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.  
Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a
 breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
interview,
 Ride
 into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
 Anmol,
   I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
 infrastructure.  I just
 think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
 replaced.  I'd
 be interested to know if India's currency has been of
 different sizes
 ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
   Just think of it this way.  How many times do
 you see an ATM in a
 convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
 supermarket?  If
 we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
 marks, all
 those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
 replaced.  I'm
 sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
 worth the
 cost for most people involved.  It's not fair to the
 however many
 million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
 all their
 ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
 But, like I
 said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
 off
 something that will work.
   Best,
 Kirt

 On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Kirt,
 Actually there is a large infrastructure in India.  The
 thing is that
 identifiable currency has just become a part of life
 and I don't think it
 was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
 it was designed.  So
 why was the Indian currency designed in different
 sizes? I am not sure, but
 the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
 cost to do this can
 not be that high since there are not many resources
 and frankly it is hard
 to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
 people with disabilities
 is rare.  Perfect example of what can be possible in
 the US.
 Anmol

 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
 make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
 vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
 Our Eyes interview, Ride
 into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22,
 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
 Anmol,
   I should never say I'm leaving-people always
 say
 stuff and I can't
 stay away.  Here's the thing about India.  As
 large as the population
 is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
 to
 replace.  I hope
 that will change as India's economy becomes more
 and more
 developed
 and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
 now, I
 think doing
 this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
 because
 of all the
 machinery that would need to be redone.
   Best,
 Kirt

 On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
 wrote:
 Kirt,
 The population of UK may be five times less
 then US,
 but the population of
 my country of India is 1 billion  almost
 three
 times more then the US and
 still we have currency wich can be
 identifiable by the
 blind.  So if India
 can make the transition without a problem,
 then it
 should not be that
 difficult for the US.

 Anmol

 I seldom think about my limitations, and they
 never
 make me sad.  Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times;
 but it is
 vague, like a breeze
 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 wrote:

 From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
 [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
 Our Eyes interview, Ride
 into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
 June 22,
 8:00 pm EDT
 To: "National Association of Blind
 Students
 mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
 Carley,
   Cool!  I've never been a science
 guy.  I'm
 going to straite my brain
 and leave the list for a couple days.
 Enjoy,
 everyone.

 On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net
 wrote:


 Hi, Kurt,

 As I understand it, a muscle
 striates when it
 is
 active.  If
 therefore, a law, procedure or
 cultural norm
 striates,
 it flexes its
 muscle, thus changing states.
 Have fun, Kurt!
 Car23/2011, you wrote:
Carly,
   I'm not exactly sure what
 a
 striation is.  The NFBwas opposed to
such a measure, and I think they
 were
 right to be
 against it for
reasons I've already mentioned.
 But,
 after
 the federal court judge
decided to side with the ACB, the
 NFB
 decided,
 rightly, that it may as
well be a part of the process
 since it was
 going to
 happen anyway.  I
don't really see the harm in
 this, do
 you?
   Best,
Kirt

On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
 <carlymih at earthlink.net
 wrote:


 Good morning, Kirt,

          'Seems to
 me though, that one ought to be able to
 determine
 shades of their own
 reality, which
 is how I
 understand the Federation
 wants its members, to
 conduct
 themselves, in
 the world.  Yet, beyond
 the elaborate striations
 the
 existing system
 will need to experience,
 if such a change were to be
 made,
 how come
 the Federation
 didn't  speak up when it
 was asked,
 by
 the Mint last time that entity
 produced curency?
 :
Carly,
   We all make
 mistakes.  No worries.
   Now, just for the
 heck
 of it, I'd like to address a point I
 think
you made earlier.  (I'm
 only
 guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
the whole message to
 me)  But I
 think
 you said something like this.
"The federation is kind
 of
 hypocritical
 because they rap ad noseum
about independence but
 are stuck
 relying
 on sighted people to help
them-depending on
 another person
 isn't
 independence at all!"  If I'm
off the mark, I'm sorry,
 but I
 can see you
 saying something like that
so it's just my guess of
 what you
 said
 from the little bit gmail was
able to read me.
   Here's the thing
 about
 that.  Independence does not mean do
everything by yourself
 all the
 time.
 It simply means you can do what
you want to, when you
 want to do
 it, in a
 way that's efficient and
works for you.  It
 means,
 basically,
 that you aren't subject to
another person's vision
 of your
 life, you
 do things the way you wish
to do them.  It also
 means you
 do
 this without really making anyone
else go much out of
 their way to
 help
 you.
   So think of it
 this
 way.  Every store already has a sighted
 worker,
most of those will be
 honest,
 almost all
 will be honest with other
people watching.  If
 you ask
 that
 person "hey, what's this bill you're
handing me?" that's in
 no way
 compromising
 your independence.  Using
technology is better
 because it
 takes away
 the outside chance that
someone's trying to pull
 off some
 funny
 business but, without the
technology, you're still
 probably
 safe
 most of the time.  As we've
seen already from other
 posts,
 nothing is
 fool proof.
   But back to
 independence
 and philosophy and stuff.  Have you
 ever
used a reader?  If you
 have,
 you're
 using another person, who's
chosing to do something
 they
 don't have to
 do; either they get money
or they don't, but it
 works
 because you
 get the job done and you
aren't forcing them to
 do it for
 you.  They chose to provide their
time to read you
 something-you
 aren't
 making them do anything.  Have
you ever used a sighted
 guide?
 I do,
 all the time.  (I'm starting to
less and less just to
 keep my
 cane skills
 up but sometimes it's just
the most efficient way
 to get
 stuff
 done.)  You can get somewhere
independently and use a
 sighted
 guide, as
 long as you're getting there
on your terms and you
 could do it
 without
 a guide there.
   See what I'm
 saying?  Independent and interdependent
 aren't
 mutually
exclusive.
   Best,
Kirt

On 6/23/11, Carly
 Mihalakis
 <carlymih at earthlink.net
 wrote:



 'Morning, Kurt,


 'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
 with all
 those I'd
 say
 off the wall
 comments,
 about the
 Ibill.

 Now a truth
 immerges which
 I failed
 to state clearly, before.

 'was confused with
 the
 NoteTeller 2
 which, experience has shown me is
 unreliable, at
 best.
 Carly even the
 person
 showing
 them
 couild not
 make them work.
 It's
 interesting
 however
 that folks on this List have found good
 luck
 with
 them.

 Carwrote:
That
 is your
 experience
 -- mine is that the iBill works quite
 well
-- and
 I think
 others
 have found this to be true too.

Dave

At
 05:08 PM
 6/22/2011,
 you wrote:




Hi,
 Hamberto and all
 interested folks,


Truth be
 known, my
 common law husband and I had the I bill,

courtesy of
 rehab
 but, after repeated attempts to make the
 thing

identify
 paper
 currency, we ascertained it a genuine
 piece of

 shit

and is not
 worth
 anything, so I submit that the
 manufacturers

 must
be
 well
 aware of
 their having themselves a niche market,
 in blind

people and
 the deep
 pocketed agencies who tend to support
 them,

 so

are
 totally
 exploiting it in the manner of any
 Capitalist
 aware

 of

the
 exisstance of a
 small and needy marketplace.

So, in
 essence,
 don't waste your's or rehab's  time with
 the I

bill! 02:11
 PM
 6/22/2011, you wrote:

Hello,
 but what
 happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
 want

 to

 know

 what

it is,
 but there
 is not a single sighted soul to tell me
 what it

 is? I

 know

is a
 free
 alternative but, is it truly worth it?
 And, what
 if

 that


 sighted

person
 lies
 about the amount of money that is on the
 bill?

I would
 probably
 support ideas like the KNFB reader and
 the

 iBill


 identifier

if they
 were
 even cheaper.  If they were so, I would
 buy one or

 the


 other,

but so
 far, I
 can not afford either one.





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--
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org

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