[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Sun Jun 26 15:33:56 UTC 2011
Kirt,
I say "take it when you can get it!" We're debating something
that's going to happen anyway, which is fine, but the accessible
currency is still going to be made no matter what we say. ACB
won the case. Even if it is a luxury, let's take that luxury
when we can get it!
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
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Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:52:02 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
22, 8:00 pm EDT
Car,
That was two words. ;) I know I'm a jerk.
I still think the cost is too high. If the government is going
to
spend millions of dollars that don't need to be spent (nothing
new
there), I can honestly think of more ways they could do it. How
a
bout just cut every blind person in America a check for a
thousand
dollars? That would be cheaper than replacing all the cash out
there
with newer bills of different size, or with tactile marks, or
whatever. And, honestly, I'd probably get more use out of it.
Best,
Kirt
On 6/24/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
Hi, Arielle,
In a word it is absolutely, worth it!
Yet, if people in power are reluctant to change existiing
infrastructure then divices needed to discern, individual
currency,
ought to be FREE in the name of total equality.
for today,
Car
:25 PM 6/24/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote:
Hi all,
I think there is a difference between having currency designed a
certain way from the get-go, and having to change what has
already
been designed. So comparing India which has had identifiable
currency
since it became independent with the situation in the U.S. which
would
have to redesign the money from scratch is not really
appropriate. I
agree that having bills be identifiable by touch is useful for
many
reasons, both for the blind and the sighted. But is it worth the
cost
of having to redesign what has already been created?
Arielle
On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
Kirt,
I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of
Indian
currency
has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending
machines
or
ATM were invented. True it is not fair for millions of sighted
individuals
to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning
ATM and
vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which
individuals
have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes
out; but
if
we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from
advancing
our
goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for
the
blind
we would never achieve anything. If we used the fairness
arguement as
you
described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be
mandated to build
ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons
in wheelchair can have
equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society
where
only
majority have access and opportunity to life because making
adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary
changes
to
make certain aspects of life accessible is unfair to the
majority, or do we
want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost
so that
their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can
have equal
opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness
arguement,
then
the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional
and
it was the
main reason why many businesses were opposed to it. Redesigning
the currency
may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon
be a part
of
life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems. Many
sighted
people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many
sighted people
who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and
the
little
inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring
greater
opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
best
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
--- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
wrote:
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
interview,
Ride
into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
Anmol,
I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
infrastructure. I just
think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
replaced. I'd
be interested to know if India's currency has been of
different sizes
ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
Just think of it this way. How many times do
you see an ATM in a
convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
supermarket? If
we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
marks, all
those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
replaced. I'm
sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
worth the
cost for most people involved. It's not fair to the
however many
million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
all their
ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
But, like I
said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
off
something that will work.
Best,
Kirt
On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
wrote:
Kirt,
Actually there is a large infrastructure in India. The
thing is that
identifiable currency has just become a part of life
and I don't think it
was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
it was designed. So
why was the Indian currency designed in different
sizes? I am not sure, but
the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
cost to do this can
not be that high since there are not many resources
and frankly it is hard
to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
people with disabilities
is rare. Perfect example of what can be possible in
the US.
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
make me sad. Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
vague, like a breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
--- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
wrote:
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
Our Eyes interview, Ride
into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
8:00 pm EDT
To: "National Association of Blind Students
mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
Anmol,
I should never say I'm leaving-people always
say
stuff and I can't
stay away. Here's the thing about India. As
large as the population
is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
to
replace. I hope
that will change as India's economy becomes more
and more
developed
and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
now, I
think doing
this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
because
of all the
machinery that would need to be redone.
Best,
Kirt
On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
wrote:
Kirt,
The population of UK may be five times less
then US,
but the population of
my country of India is 1 billion almost
three
times more then the US and
still we have currency wich can be
identifiable by the
blind. So if India
can make the transition without a problem,
then it
should not be that
difficult for the US.
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they
never
make me sad. Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times;
but it is
vague, like a breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
--- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
wrote:
From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
[Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
Our Eyes interview, Ride
into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
June 22,
8:00 pm EDT
To: "National Association of Blind
Students
mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
Carley,
Cool! I've never been a science
guy. I'm
going to straite my brain
and leave the list for a couple days.
Enjoy,
everyone.
On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net
wrote:
Hi, Kurt,
As I understand it, a muscle
striates when it
is
active. If
therefore, a law, procedure or
cultural norm
striates,
it flexes its
muscle, thus changing states.
Have fun, Kurt!
Car23/2011, you wrote:
Carly,
I'm not exactly sure what
a
striation is. The NFBwas opposed to
such a measure, and I think they
were
right to be
against it for
reasons I've already mentioned.
But,
after
the federal court judge
decided to side with the ACB, the
NFB
decided,
rightly, that it may as
well be a part of the process
since it was
going to
happen anyway. I
don't really see the harm in
this, do
you?
Best,
Kirt
On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
<carlymih at earthlink.net
wrote:
Good morning, Kirt,
'Seems to
me though, that one ought to be able to
determine
shades of their own
reality, which
is how I
understand the Federation
wants its members, to
conduct
themselves, in
the world. Yet, beyond
the elaborate striations
the
existing system
will need to experience,
if such a change were to be
made,
how come
the Federation
didn't speak up when it
was asked,
by
the Mint last time that entity
produced curency?
:
Carly,
We all make
mistakes. No worries.
Now, just for the
heck
of it, I'd like to address a point I
think
you made earlier. (I'm
only
guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
the whole message to
me) But I
think
you said something like this.
"The federation is kind
of
hypocritical
because they rap ad noseum
about independence but
are stuck
relying
on sighted people to help
them-depending on
another person
isn't
independence at all!" If I'm
off the mark, I'm sorry,
but I
can see you
saying something like that
so it's just my guess of
what you
said
from the little bit gmail was
able to read me.
Here's the thing
about
that. Independence does not mean do
everything by yourself
all the
time.
It simply means you can do what
you want to, when you
want to do
it, in a
way that's efficient and
works for you. It
means,
basically,
that you aren't subject to
another person's vision
of your
life, you
do things the way you wish
to do them. It also
means you
do
this without really making anyone
else go much out of
their way to
help
you.
So think of it
this
way. Every store already has a sighted
worker,
most of those will be
honest,
almost all
will be honest with other
people watching. If
you ask
that
person "hey, what's this bill you're
handing me?" that's in
no way
compromising
your independence. Using
technology is better
because it
takes away
the outside chance that
someone's trying to pull
off some
funny
business but, without the
technology, you're still
probably
safe
most of the time. As we've
seen already from other
posts,
nothing is
fool proof.
But back to
independence
and philosophy and stuff. Have you
ever
used a reader? If you
have,
you're
using another person, who's
chosing to do something
they
don't have to
do; either they get money
or they don't, but it
works
because you
get the job done and you
aren't forcing them to
do it for
you. They chose to provide their
time to read you
something-you
aren't
making them do anything. Have
you ever used a sighted
guide?
I do,
all the time. (I'm starting to
less and less just to
keep my
cane skills
up but sometimes it's just
the most efficient way
to get
stuff
done.) You can get somewhere
independently and use a
sighted
guide, as
long as you're getting there
on your terms and you
could do it
without
a guide there.
See what I'm
saying? Independent and interdependent
aren't
mutually
exclusive.
Best,
Kirt
On 6/23/11, Carly
Mihalakis
<carlymih at earthlink.net
wrote:
'Morning, Kurt,
'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
with all
those I'd
say
off the wall
comments,
about the
Ibill.
Now a truth
immerges which
I failed
to state clearly, before.
'was confused with
the
NoteTeller 2
which, experience has shown me is
unreliable, at
best.
Carly even the
person
showing
them
couild not
make them work.
It's
interesting
however
that folks on this List have found good
luck
with
them.
Carwrote:
That
is your
experience
-- mine is that the iBill works quite
well
-- and
I think
others
have found this to be true too.
Dave
At
05:08 PM
6/22/2011,
you wrote:
Hi,
Hamberto and all
interested folks,
Truth be
known, my
common law husband and I had the I bill,
courtesy of
rehab
but, after repeated attempts to make the
thing
identify
paper
currency, we ascertained it a genuine
piece of
shit
and is not
worth
anything, so I submit that the
manufacturers
must
be
well
aware of
their having themselves a niche market,
in blind
people and
the deep
pocketed agencies who tend to support
them,
so
are
totally
exploiting it in the manner of any
Capitalist
aware
of
the
exisstance of a
small and needy marketplace.
So, in
essence,
don't waste your's or rehab's time with
the I
bill! 02:11
PM
6/22/2011, you wrote:
Hello,
but what
happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
want
to
know
what
it is,
but there
is not a single sighted soul to tell me
what it
is? I
know
is a
free
alternative but, is it truly worth it?
And, what
if
that
sighted
person
lies
about the amount of money that is on the
bill?
I would
probably
support ideas like the KNFB reader and
the
iBill
identifier
if they
were
even cheaper. If they were so, I would
buy one or
the
other,
but so
far, I
can not afford either one.
_______________________________________________
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--
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone: 602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org
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