[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Carly Mihalakis Esq. carlymih at earthlink.net
Mon Jun 27 02:09:34 UTC 2011


Hi, Chris,

         I never divaulge my PIN since, if you must use the creditAt 
option, your PIN is not needed. 06 :43 PM 6/26/2011, 
bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>Car,
>No debit machines and ATMs are a necessity, not a luxury. But you 
>cannot enter your debit pin number on the flat pannelled  screens. 
>Without any vision, you'll need someone to enter it for you.  I 
>would hope NFB would push for those machines to be replaced by 
>tactile machines so we can enter our numbers independently. Pin 
>numbers are meant to be  private, known only by you.
>Ashley
>
>-----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 8:48 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National 
>Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes 
>interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>
>
>
>
>Hi, Chris and Kurt, and others having an interest,
>
>         I was born with RB and was a pretty high functioning blind
>kid, growing up. Now, I am brain damaged and my short term memory is
>unreliable, at best. What ought someone with this additional
>disability do to identify their money?
>And, don't you guys love those debit machines, or does the Federation
>deem those too,  a "luxury?"
>Car
>
>and over again, is already accessible
>>to us if we know how to handle it.  We don't even need technology like
>>an iBill or LookTell app, and 99 times out of 100, I might even say
>>999 times out of 1000, we'll be fine.  Sighted people are playing by
>>pretty much the same odds-what with fraud and ponzie schemes and so
>>forth.  Don't get me wrong, I'll take advantage of the usability of
>>the new money as much as anyone else.  But I'm getting a little
>>frustrated with blind people demanding things we don't really need and
>>acting like it's an unalienable right to get whatever we want.
>>   Best,
>>Kirt
>>
>>On 6/26/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Kirt,
>> >
>> > I say "take it when you can get it!" We're debating something
>> > that's going to happen anyway, which is fine, but the accessible
>> > currency is still going to be made no matter what we say.  ACB
>> > won the case.  Even if it is a luxury, let's take that luxury
>> > when we can get it!
>> >
>> >  Chris
>> >
>> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>> > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
>> > you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
>> > www.campabilities.org.
>> >
>> > The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
>> > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
>> > on this link to learn more and to contribute:
>> > www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
>> > Foundation.
>> >
>> > Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
>> >
>> >  Sent from my BrailleNote
>> >
>> >  ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date sent: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:52:02 -0600
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> > interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June
>> > 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> >
>> > Car,
>> >   That was two words.  ;)  I know I'm a jerk.
>> >   I still think the cost is too high.  If the government is going
>> > to
>> > spend millions of dollars that don't need to be spent (nothing
>> > new
>> > there), I can honestly think of more ways they could do it.  How
>> > a
>> > bout just cut every blind person in America a check for a
>> > thousand
>> > dollars?  That would be cheaper than replacing all the cash out
>> > there
>> > with newer bills of different size, or with tactile marks, or
>> > whatever.  And, honestly, I'd probably get more use out of it.
>> >   Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/24/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >  Hi, Arielle,
>> >
>> >  In a word it is absolutely, worth it!
>> >  Yet, if people in power are reluctant to change existiing
>> >  infrastructure then divices needed to discern, individual
>> > currency,
>> >  ought to be FREE in the name of total equality.
>> >  for today,
>> >  Car
>> >  :25 PM 6/24/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > I think there is a difference between having currency designed a
>> > certain way from the get-go, and having to change what has
>> > already
>> > been designed.  So comparing India which has had identifiable
>> > currency
>> > since it became independent with the situation in the U.S.  which
>> > would
>> > have to redesign the money from scratch is not really
>> > appropriate.  I
>> > agree that having bills be identifiable by touch is useful for
>> > many
>> > reasons, both for the blind and the sighted.  But is it worth the
>> > cost
>> > of having to redesign what has already been created?
>> > Arielle
>> >
>> > On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >  Kirt,
>> >  I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of
>> > Indian
>> >  currency
>> >  has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending
>> > machines
>> >  or
>> >  ATM were invented.  True it is not fair for millions of sighted
>> >  individuals
>> >  to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning
>> > ATM and
>> >  vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which
>> > individuals
>> >  have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes
>> > out; but
>> >  if
>> >  we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from
>> > advancing
>> >  our
>> >  goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for
>> > the
>> >  blind
>> >  we would never achieve anything.  If we used the fairness
>> > arguement as
>> >  you
>> >  described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be
>> >  mandated to build
>> >  ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons
>> >  in  wheelchair can have
>> >  equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society
>> > where
>> >  only
>> >  majority have access and opportunity to life because making
>> >   adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary
>> > changes
>> >  to
>> >  make certain aspects of life accessible  is unfair to the
>> >  majority, or do we
>> >  want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost
>> > so that
>> >  their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can
>> > have equal
>> >  opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness
>> > arguement,
>> >  then
>> >  the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional
>> > and
>> >  it was the
>> >  main reason why many businesses were opposed to it.  Redesigning
>> >  the currency
>> >  may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon
>> > be a part
>> >  of
>> >  life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems.  Many
>> > sighted
>> >  people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many
>> >  sighted people
>> >  who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and
>> > the
>> >  little
>> >  inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring
>> > greater
>> >  opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
>> >
>> >  best
>> >  Anmol
>> >
>> >  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>> > Perhaps
>> >  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> > like a
>> >  breeze
>> >  among flowers.
>> >  Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> >  --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >  From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> > interview,
>> >  Ride
>> >  into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> >  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >  Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
>> >  Anmol,
>> >    I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
>> >  infrastructure.  I just
>> >  think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
>> >  replaced.  I'd
>> >  be interested to know if India's currency has been of
>> >  different sizes
>> >  ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
>> >    Just think of it this way.  How many times do
>> >  you see an ATM in a
>> >  convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
>> >  supermarket?  If
>> >  we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
>> >  marks, all
>> >  those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
>> >  replaced.  I'm
>> >  sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
>> >  worth the
>> >  cost for most people involved.  It's not fair to the
>> >  however many
>> >  million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
>> >  all their
>> >  ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
>> >  But, like I
>> >  said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
>> >  off
>> >  something that will work.
>> >    Best,
>> >  Kirt
>> >
>> >  On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> >  wrote:
>> >  Kirt,
>> >  Actually there is a large infrastructure in India.  The
>> >  thing is that
>> >  identifiable currency has just become a part of life
>> >  and I don't think it
>> >  was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
>> >  it was designed.  So
>> >  why was the Indian currency designed in different
>> >  sizes? I am not sure, but
>> >  the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
>> >  cost to do this can
>> >  not be that high since there are not many resources
>> >  and frankly it is hard
>> >  to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
>> >  people with disabilities
>> >  is rare.  Perfect example of what can be possible in
>> >  the US.
>> >  Anmol
>> >
>> >  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> >  make me sad.  Perhaps
>> >  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>> >  vague, like a breeze
>> >  among flowers.
>> >  Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> >  --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >  From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> >  Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> >  into History, Race for Independence, Wed.  June 22,
>> >  8:00 pm EDT
>> >  To: "National Association of Blind Students
>> >  mailing list"
>> >  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >  Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
>> >  Anmol,
>> >    I should never say I'm leaving-people always
>> >  say
>> >  stuff and I can't
>> >  stay away.  Here's the thing about India.  As
>> >  large as the population
>> >  is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
>> >  to
>> >  replace.  I hope
>> >  that will change as India's economy becomes more
>> >  and more
>> >  developed
>> >  and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
>> >  now, I
>> >  think doing
>> >  this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
>> >  because
>> >  of all the
>> >  machinery that would need to be redone.
>> >    Best,
>> >  Kirt
>> >
>> >  On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> >  wrote:
>> >  Kirt,
>> >  The population of UK may be five times less
>> >  then US,
>> >  but the population of
>> >  my country of India is 1 billion  almost
>> >  three
>> >  times more then the US and
>> >  still we have currency wich can be
>> >  identifiable by the
>> >  blind.  So if India
>> >  can make the transition without a problem,
>> >  then it
>> >  should not be that
>> >  difficult for the US.
>> >
>> >  Anmol
>> >
>> >  I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>> >  never
>> >  make me sad.  Perhaps
>> >  there is just a touch of yearning at times;
>> >  but it is
>> >  vague, like a breeze
>> >  among flowers.
>> >  Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> >  --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >  From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> >  Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> >  [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> >  Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> >  into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>> >  June 22,
>> >  8:00 pm EDT
>> >  To: "National Association of Blind
>> >  Students
>> >  mailing list"
>> >  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >  Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
>> >  Carley,
>> >    Cool!  I've never been a science
>> >  guy.  I'm
>> >  going to straite my brain
>> >  and leave the list for a couple days.
>> >  Enjoy,
>> >  everyone.
>> >
>> >  On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >  Hi, Kurt,
>> >
>> >  As I understand it, a muscle
>> >  striates when it
>> >  is
>> >  active.  If
>> >  therefore, a law, procedure or
>> >  cultural norm
>> >  striates,
>> >  it flexes its
>> >  muscle, thus changing states.
>> >  Have fun, Kurt!
>> >  Car23/2011, you wrote:
>> > Carly,
>> >    I'm not exactly sure what
>> >  a
>> >  striation is.  The NFBwas opposed to
>> > such a measure, and I think they
>> >  were
>> >  right to be
>> >  against it for
>> > reasons I've already mentioned.
>> >  But,
>> >  after
>> >  the federal court judge
>> > decided to side with the ACB, the
>> >  NFB
>> >  decided,
>> >  rightly, that it may as
>> > well be a part of the process
>> >  since it was
>> >  going to
>> >  happen anyway.  I
>> > don't really see the harm in
>> >  this, do
>> >  you?
>> >    Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
>> >  <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >  Good morning, Kirt,
>> >
>> >           'Seems to
>> >  me though, that one ought to be able to
>> >  determine
>> >  shades of their own
>> >  reality, which
>> >  is how I
>> >  understand the Federation
>> >  wants its members, to
>> >  conduct
>> >  themselves, in
>> >  the world.  Yet, beyond
>> >  the elaborate striations
>> >  the
>> >  existing system
>> >  will need to experience,
>> >  if such a change were to be
>> >  made,
>> >  how come
>> >  the Federation
>> >  didn't  speak up when it
>> >  was asked,
>> >  by
>> >  the Mint last time that entity
>> >  produced curency?
>> >  :
>> > Carly,
>> >    We all make
>> >  mistakes.  No worries.
>> >    Now, just for the
>> >  heck
>> >  of it, I'd like to address a point I
>> >  think
>> > you made earlier.  (I'm
>> >  only
>> >  guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
>> > the whole message to
>> >  me)  But I
>> >  think
>> >  you said something like this.
>> > "The federation is kind
>> >  of
>> >  hypocritical
>> >  because they rap ad noseum
>> > about independence but
>> >  are stuck
>> >  relying
>> >  on sighted people to help
>> > them-depending on
>> >  another person
>> >  isn't
>> >  independence at all!"  If I'm
>> > off the mark, I'm sorry,
>> >  but I
>> >  can see you
>> >  saying something like that
>> > so it's just my guess of
>> >  what you
>> >  said
>> >  from the little bit gmail was
>> > able to read me.
>> >    Here's the thing
>> >  about
>> >  that.  Independence does not mean do
>> > everything by yourself
>> >  all the
>> >  time.
>> >  It simply means you can do what
>> > you want to, when you
>> >  want to do
>> >  it, in a
>> >  way that's efficient and
>> > works for you.  It
>> >  means,
>> >  basically,
>> >  that you aren't subject to
>> > another person's vision
>> >  of your
>> >  life, you
>> >  do things the way you wish
>> > to do them.  It also
>> >  means you
>> >  do
>> >  this without really making anyone
>> > else go much out of
>> >  their way to
>> >  help
>> >  you.
>> >    So think of it
>> >  this
>> >  way.  Every store already has a sighted
>> >  worker,
>> > most of those will be
>> >  honest,
>> >  almost all
>> >  will be honest with other
>> > people watching.  If
>> >  you ask
>> >  that
>> >  person "hey, what's this bill you're
>> > handing me?" that's in
>> >  no way
>> >  compromising
>> >  your independence.  Using
>> > technology is better
>> >  because it
>> >  takes away
>> >  the outside chance that
>> > someone's trying to pull
>> >  off some
>> >  funny
>> >  business but, without the
>> > technology, you're still
>> >  probably
>> >  safe
>> >  most of the time.  As we've
>> > seen already from other
>> >  posts,
>> >  nothing is
>> >  fool proof.
>> >    But back to
>> >  independence
>> >  and philosophy and stuff.  Have you
>> >  ever
>> > used a reader?  If you
>> >  have,
>> >  you're
>> >  using another person, who's
>> > chosing to do something
>> >  they
>> >  don't have to
>> >  do; either they get money
>> > or they don't, but it
>> >  works
>> >  because you
>> >  get the job done and you
>> > aren't forcing them to
>> >  do it for
>> >  you.  They chose to provide their
>> > time to read you
>> >  something-you
>> >  aren't
>> >  making them do anything.  Have
>> > you ever used a sighted
>> >  guide?
>> >  I do,
>> >  all the time.  (I'm starting to
>> > less and less just to
>> >  keep my
>> >  cane skills
>> >  up but sometimes it's just
>> > the most efficient way
>> >  to get
>> >  stuff
>> >  done.)  You can get somewhere
>> > independently and use a
>> >  sighted
>> >  guide, as
>> >  long as you're getting there
>> > on your terms and you
>> >  could do it
>> >  without
>> >  a guide there.
>> >    See what I'm
>> >  saying?  Independent and interdependent
>> >  aren't
>> >  mutually
>> > exclusive.
>> >    Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/23/11, Carly
>> >  Mihalakis
>> >  <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  'Morning, Kurt,
>> >
>> >
>> >  'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
>> >  with all
>> >  those I'd
>> >  say
>> >  off the wall
>> >  comments,
>> >  about the
>> >  Ibill.
>> >
>> >  Now a truth
>> >  immerges which
>> >  I failed
>> >  to state clearly, before.
>> >
>> >  'was confused with
>> >  the
>> >  NoteTeller 2
>> >  which, experience has shown me is
>> >  unreliable, at
>> >  best.
>> >  Carly even the
>> >  person
>> >  showing
>> >  them
>> >  couild not
>> >  make them work.
>> >  It's
>> >  interesting
>> >  however
>> >  that folks on this List have found good
>> >  luck
>> >  with
>> >  them.
>> >
>> >  Carwrote:
>> > That
>> >  is your
>> >  experience
>> >  -- mine is that the iBill works quite
>> >  well
>> > -- and
>> >  I think
>> >  others
>> >  have found this to be true too.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > At
>> >  05:08 PM
>> >  6/22/2011,
>> >  you wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >  Hamberto and all
>> >  interested folks,
>> >
>> >
>> > Truth be
>> >  known, my
>> >  common law husband and I had the I bill,
>> >
>> > courtesy of
>> >  rehab
>> >  but, after repeated attempts to make the
>> >  thing
>> >
>> > identify
>> >  paper
>> >  currency, we ascertained it a genuine
>> >  piece of
>> >
>> >  shit
>> >
>> > and is not
>> >  worth
>> >  anything, so I submit that the
>> >  manufacturers
>> >
>> >  must
>> > be
>> >  well
>> >  aware of
>> >  their having themselves a niche market,
>> >  in blind
>> >
>> > people and
>> >  the deep
>> >  pocketed agencies who tend to support
>> >  them,
>> >
>> >  so
>> >
>> > are
>> >  totally
>> >  exploiting it in the manner of any
>> >  Capitalist
>> >  aware
>> >
>> >  of
>> >
>> > the
>> >  exisstance of a
>> >  small and needy marketplace.
>> >
>> > So, in
>> >  essence,
>> >  don't waste your's or rehab's  time with
>> >  the I
>> >
>> > bill! 02:11
>> >  PM
>> >  6/22/2011, you wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >  but what
>> >  happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
>> >  want
>> >
>> >  to
>> >
>> >  know
>> >
>> >  what
>> >
>> > it is,
>> >  but there
>> >  is not a single sighted soul to tell me
>> >  what it
>> >
>> >  is? I
>> >
>> >  know
>> >
>> > is a
>> >  free
>> >  alternative but, is it truly worth it?
>> >  And, what
>> >  if
>> >
>> >  that
>> >
>> >
>> >  sighted
>> >
>> > person
>> >  lies
>> >  about the amount of money that is on the
>> >  bill?
>> >
>> > I would
>> >  probably
>> >  support ideas like the KNFB reader and
>> >  the
>> >
>> >  iBill
>> >
>> >
>> >  identifier
>> >
>> > if they
>> >  were
>> >  even cheaper.  If they were so, I would
>> >  buy one or
>> >
>> >  the
>> >
>> >
>> >  other,
>> >
>> > but so
>> >  far, I
>> >  can not afford either one.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l
>> >  mailing
>> >  list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> >  nabs-l:
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>> >  net.org/carlymih%4
>> >
>> >  0earthlink.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  _______________________________________________
>> >  nabs-l
>> >  mailing
>> >  list
>> >  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> > ydude%40gmail.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> > --
>> > Arielle Silverman
>> > President, National Association of Blind Students
>> > Phone:  602-502-2255
>> > Email:
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>> > Website:
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