[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
Carly Mihalakis Esq.
carlymih at earthlink.net
Mon Jun 27 02:09:34 UTC 2011
Hi, Chris,
I never divaulge my PIN since, if you must use the creditAt
option, your PIN is not needed. 06 :43 PM 6/26/2011,
bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>Car,
>No debit machines and ATMs are a necessity, not a luxury. But you
>cannot enter your debit pin number on the flat pannelled screens.
>Without any vision, you'll need someone to enter it for you. I
>would hope NFB would push for those machines to be replaced by
>tactile machines so we can enter our numbers independently. Pin
>numbers are meant to be private, known only by you.
>Ashley
>
>-----Original Message----- From: Carly Mihalakis
>Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 8:48 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
>Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>
>
>
>
>Hi, Chris and Kurt, and others having an interest,
>
> I was born with RB and was a pretty high functioning blind
>kid, growing up. Now, I am brain damaged and my short term memory is
>unreliable, at best. What ought someone with this additional
>disability do to identify their money?
>And, don't you guys love those debit machines, or does the Federation
>deem those too, a "luxury?"
>Car
>
>and over again, is already accessible
>>to us if we know how to handle it. We don't even need technology like
>>an iBill or LookTell app, and 99 times out of 100, I might even say
>>999 times out of 1000, we'll be fine. Sighted people are playing by
>>pretty much the same odds-what with fraud and ponzie schemes and so
>>forth. Don't get me wrong, I'll take advantage of the usability of
>>the new money as much as anyone else. But I'm getting a little
>>frustrated with blind people demanding things we don't really need and
>>acting like it's an unalienable right to get whatever we want.
>> Best,
>>Kirt
>>
>>On 6/26/11, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Kirt,
>> >
>> > I say "take it when you can get it!" We're debating something
>> > that's going to happen anyway, which is fine, but the accessible
>> > currency is still going to be made no matter what we say. ACB
>> > won the case. Even if it is a luxury, let's take that luxury
>> > when we can get it!
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > "A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>> > To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
>> > you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
>> > www.campabilities.org.
>> >
>> > The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
>> > Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
>> > on this link to learn more and to contribute:
>> > www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
>> > Foundation.
>> >
>> > Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
>> >
>> > Sent from my BrailleNote
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date sent: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:52:02 -0600
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> > interview,Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June
>> > 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> >
>> > Car,
>> > That was two words. ;) I know I'm a jerk.
>> > I still think the cost is too high. If the government is going
>> > to
>> > spend millions of dollars that don't need to be spent (nothing
>> > new
>> > there), I can honestly think of more ways they could do it. How
>> > a
>> > bout just cut every blind person in America a check for a
>> > thousand
>> > dollars? That would be cheaper than replacing all the cash out
>> > there
>> > with newer bills of different size, or with tactile marks, or
>> > whatever. And, honestly, I'd probably get more use out of it.
>> > Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/24/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, Arielle,
>> >
>> > In a word it is absolutely, worth it!
>> > Yet, if people in power are reluctant to change existiing
>> > infrastructure then divices needed to discern, individual
>> > currency,
>> > ought to be FREE in the name of total equality.
>> > for today,
>> > Car
>> > :25 PM 6/24/2011, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > I think there is a difference between having currency designed a
>> > certain way from the get-go, and having to change what has
>> > already
>> > been designed. So comparing India which has had identifiable
>> > currency
>> > since it became independent with the situation in the U.S. which
>> > would
>> > have to redesign the money from scratch is not really
>> > appropriate. I
>> > agree that having bills be identifiable by touch is useful for
>> > many
>> > reasons, both for the blind and the sighted. But is it worth the
>> > cost
>> > of having to redesign what has already been created?
>> > Arielle
>> >
>> > On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Kirt,
>> > I am not sure, but I would guess that the current system of
>> > Indian
>> > currency
>> > has been in place since independence in 1947 before any vending
>> > machines
>> > or
>> > ATM were invented. True it is not fair for millions of sighted
>> > individuals
>> > to have to pay and adjust to accessible currency: redesigning
>> > ATM and
>> > vending machines, replacing the cash they already have which
>> > individuals
>> > have to do every 7 years I believe or whenever a new note comes
>> > out; but
>> > if
>> > we allow the fairness arguement for the sighted keep us from
>> > advancing
>> > our
>> > goals to create opportunities and bring greater independence for
>> > the
>> > blind
>> > we would never achieve anything. If we used the fairness
>> > arguement as
>> > you
>> > described, it is not fair for millions of businesses to be
>> > mandated to build
>> > ramps or have elevaters so that hand full of persons
>> > in wheelchair can have
>> > equal access, but do we live and do we want to live in a society
>> > where
>> > only
>> > majority have access and opportunity to life because making
>> > adjustments or baring cost associated to bringing the necessary
>> > changes
>> > to
>> > make certain aspects of life accessible is unfair to the
>> > majority, or do we
>> > want a society where people are willing to adjust and bare cost
>> > so that
>> > their fellow citizens who happen to be blind or disabled can
>> > have equal
>> > opportunities and rights as them? If we take the fairness
>> > arguement,
>> > then
>> > the Americans with Disabilities ACT (ADA) is unconstitutional
>> > and
>> > it was the
>> > main reason why many businesses were opposed to it. Redesigning
>> > the currency
>> > may cause inconvenience at first, but like Europe it will soon
>> > be a part
>> > of
>> > life and an adjustment that many do not have any problems. Many
>> > sighted
>> > people have asked me why is the currency not accessible? Many
>> > sighted people
>> > who I talk to about this do not seem to mind baring the cost and
>> > the
>> > little
>> > inconvenience associated with doing this in order to bring
>> > greater
>> > opportunity and equality to the million or so blind individuals.
>> >
>> > best
>> > Anmol
>> >
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>> > Perhaps
>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> > like a
>> > breeze
>> > among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes
>> > interview,
>> > Ride
>> > into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 8:48 PM
>> > Anmol,
>> > I didn't say India doesn't have a lot of
>> > infrastructure. I just
>> > think the US, all told, has more that would need to be
>> > replaced. I'd
>> > be interested to know if India's currency has been of
>> > different sizes
>> > ever since India became in independent country in 1948.
>> > Just think of it this way. How many times do
>> > you see an ATM in a
>> > convenience store, bank, hotel, hospital, airport or
>> > supermarket? If
>> > we made our currency different sizes, or added tactile
>> > marks, all
>> > those hundreds of thousands of ATMS would have to be
>> > replaced. I'm
>> > sure Europe had that problem adopting the euro, but it was
>> > worth the
>> > cost for most people involved. It's not fair to the
>> > however many
>> > million sighted Americans out there to make them replace
>> > all their
>> > ATMS, vending machines, cash they already have, etc.
>> > But, like I
>> > said, since it's going to happen anyway, I hope they pull
>> > off
>> > something that will work.
>> > Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> > wrote:
>> > Kirt,
>> > Actually there is a large infrastructure in India. The
>> > thing is that
>> > identifiable currency has just become a part of life
>> > and I don't think it
>> > was ever intended to be accessable for the blind when
>> > it was designed. So
>> > why was the Indian currency designed in different
>> > sizes? I am not sure, but
>> > the sighted and blind have benefited from it alike and
>> > cost to do this can
>> > not be that high since there are not many resources
>> > and frankly it is hard
>> > to get Indian politicians to do anything good for
>> > people with disabilities
>> > is rare. Perfect example of what can be possible in
>> > the US.
>> > Anmol
>> >
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never
>> > make me sad. Perhaps
>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>> > vague, like a breeze
>> > among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Fri, 6/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> > Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> > into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22,
>> > 8:00 pm EDT
>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students
>> > mailing list"
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date: Friday, June 24, 2011, 7:14 PM
>> > Anmol,
>> > I should never say I'm leaving-people always
>> > say
>> > stuff and I can't
>> > stay away. Here's the thing about India. As
>> > large as the population
>> > is (massive!), there's not near the infrastructure
>> > to
>> > replace. I hope
>> > that will change as India's economy becomes more
>> > and more
>> > developed
>> > and the middle class gets larger but, as it stands
>> > now, I
>> > think doing
>> > this in the US would be a lot harder than in India
>> > because
>> > of all the
>> > machinery that would need to be redone.
>> > Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/24/11, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
>> > wrote:
>> > Kirt,
>> > The population of UK may be five times less
>> > then US,
>> > but the population of
>> > my country of India is 1 billion almost
>> > three
>> > times more then the US and
>> > still we have currency wich can be
>> > identifiable by the
>> > blind. So if India
>> > can make the transition without a problem,
>> > then it
>> > should not be that
>> > difficult for the US.
>> >
>> > Anmol
>> >
>> > I seldom think about my limitations, and they
>> > never
>> > make me sad. Perhaps
>> > there is just a touch of yearning at times;
>> > but it is
>> > vague, like a breeze
>> > among flowers.
>> > Hellen Keller
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>> > [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw
>> > Our Eyes interview, Ride
>> > into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>> > June 22,
>> > 8:00 pm EDT
>> > To: "National Association of Blind
>> > Students
>> > mailing list"
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:49 PM
>> > Carley,
>> > Cool! I've never been a science
>> > guy. I'm
>> > going to straite my brain
>> > and leave the list for a couple days.
>> > Enjoy,
>> > everyone.
>> >
>> > On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, Kurt,
>> >
>> > As I understand it, a muscle
>> > striates when it
>> > is
>> > active. If
>> > therefore, a law, procedure or
>> > cultural norm
>> > striates,
>> > it flexes its
>> > muscle, thus changing states.
>> > Have fun, Kurt!
>> > Car23/2011, you wrote:
>> > Carly,
>> > I'm not exactly sure what
>> > a
>> > striation is. The NFBwas opposed to
>> > such a measure, and I think they
>> > were
>> > right to be
>> > against it for
>> > reasons I've already mentioned.
>> > But,
>> > after
>> > the federal court judge
>> > decided to side with the ACB, the
>> > NFB
>> > decided,
>> > rightly, that it may as
>> > well be a part of the process
>> > since it was
>> > going to
>> > happen anyway. I
>> > don't really see the harm in
>> > this, do
>> > you?
>> > Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/23/11, Carly Mihalakis
>> > <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Good morning, Kirt,
>> >
>> > 'Seems to
>> > me though, that one ought to be able to
>> > determine
>> > shades of their own
>> > reality, which
>> > is how I
>> > understand the Federation
>> > wants its members, to
>> > conduct
>> > themselves, in
>> > the world. Yet, beyond
>> > the elaborate striations
>> > the
>> > existing system
>> > will need to experience,
>> > if such a change were to be
>> > made,
>> > how come
>> > the Federation
>> > didn't speak up when it
>> > was asked,
>> > by
>> > the Mint last time that entity
>> > produced curency?
>> > :
>> > Carly,
>> > We all make
>> > mistakes. No worries.
>> > Now, just for the
>> > heck
>> > of it, I'd like to address a point I
>> > think
>> > you made earlier. (I'm
>> > only
>> > guessing, because my gmail wouldn't read
>> > the whole message to
>> > me) But I
>> > think
>> > you said something like this.
>> > "The federation is kind
>> > of
>> > hypocritical
>> > because they rap ad noseum
>> > about independence but
>> > are stuck
>> > relying
>> > on sighted people to help
>> > them-depending on
>> > another person
>> > isn't
>> > independence at all!" If I'm
>> > off the mark, I'm sorry,
>> > but I
>> > can see you
>> > saying something like that
>> > so it's just my guess of
>> > what you
>> > said
>> > from the little bit gmail was
>> > able to read me.
>> > Here's the thing
>> > about
>> > that. Independence does not mean do
>> > everything by yourself
>> > all the
>> > time.
>> > It simply means you can do what
>> > you want to, when you
>> > want to do
>> > it, in a
>> > way that's efficient and
>> > works for you. It
>> > means,
>> > basically,
>> > that you aren't subject to
>> > another person's vision
>> > of your
>> > life, you
>> > do things the way you wish
>> > to do them. It also
>> > means you
>> > do
>> > this without really making anyone
>> > else go much out of
>> > their way to
>> > help
>> > you.
>> > So think of it
>> > this
>> > way. Every store already has a sighted
>> > worker,
>> > most of those will be
>> > honest,
>> > almost all
>> > will be honest with other
>> > people watching. If
>> > you ask
>> > that
>> > person "hey, what's this bill you're
>> > handing me?" that's in
>> > no way
>> > compromising
>> > your independence. Using
>> > technology is better
>> > because it
>> > takes away
>> > the outside chance that
>> > someone's trying to pull
>> > off some
>> > funny
>> > business but, without the
>> > technology, you're still
>> > probably
>> > safe
>> > most of the time. As we've
>> > seen already from other
>> > posts,
>> > nothing is
>> > fool proof.
>> > But back to
>> > independence
>> > and philosophy and stuff. Have you
>> > ever
>> > used a reader? If you
>> > have,
>> > you're
>> > using another person, who's
>> > chosing to do something
>> > they
>> > don't have to
>> > do; either they get money
>> > or they don't, but it
>> > works
>> > because you
>> > get the job done and you
>> > aren't forcing them to
>> > do it for
>> > you. They chose to provide their
>> > time to read you
>> > something-you
>> > aren't
>> > making them do anything. Have
>> > you ever used a sighted
>> > guide?
>> > I do,
>> > all the time. (I'm starting to
>> > less and less just to
>> > keep my
>> > cane skills
>> > up but sometimes it's just
>> > the most efficient way
>> > to get
>> > stuff
>> > done.) You can get somewhere
>> > independently and use a
>> > sighted
>> > guide, as
>> > long as you're getting there
>> > on your terms and you
>> > could do it
>> > without
>> > a guide there.
>> > See what I'm
>> > saying? Independent and interdependent
>> > aren't
>> > mutually
>> > exclusive.
>> > Best,
>> > Kirt
>> >
>> > On 6/23/11, Carly
>> > Mihalakis
>> > <carlymih at earthlink.net
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 'Morning, Kurt,
>> >
>> >
>> > 'Guess I really blew it for myuy self
>> > with all
>> > those I'd
>> > say
>> > off the wall
>> > comments,
>> > about the
>> > Ibill.
>> >
>> > Now a truth
>> > immerges which
>> > I failed
>> > to state clearly, before.
>> >
>> > 'was confused with
>> > the
>> > NoteTeller 2
>> > which, experience has shown me is
>> > unreliable, at
>> > best.
>> > Carly even the
>> > person
>> > showing
>> > them
>> > couild not
>> > make them work.
>> > It's
>> > interesting
>> > however
>> > that folks on this List have found good
>> > luck
>> > with
>> > them.
>> >
>> > Carwrote:
>> > That
>> > is your
>> > experience
>> > -- mine is that the iBill works quite
>> > well
>> > -- and
>> > I think
>> > others
>> > have found this to be true too.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > At
>> > 05:08 PM
>> > 6/22/2011,
>> > you wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> > Hamberto and all
>> > interested folks,
>> >
>> >
>> > Truth be
>> > known, my
>> > common law husband and I had the I bill,
>> >
>> > courtesy of
>> > rehab
>> > but, after repeated attempts to make the
>> > thing
>> >
>> > identify
>> > paper
>> > currency, we ascertained it a genuine
>> > piece of
>> >
>> > shit
>> >
>> > and is not
>> > worth
>> > anything, so I submit that the
>> > manufacturers
>> >
>> > must
>> > be
>> > well
>> > aware of
>> > their having themselves a niche market,
>> > in blind
>> >
>> > people and
>> > the deep
>> > pocketed agencies who tend to support
>> > them,
>> >
>> > so
>> >
>> > are
>> > totally
>> > exploiting it in the manner of any
>> > Capitalist
>> > aware
>> >
>> > of
>> >
>> > the
>> > exisstance of a
>> > small and needy marketplace.
>> >
>> > So, in
>> > essence,
>> > don't waste your's or rehab's time with
>> > the I
>> >
>> > bill! 02:11
>> > PM
>> > 6/22/2011, you wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> > but what
>> > happens if I have a bill in my hand and I
>> > want
>> >
>> > to
>> >
>> > know
>> >
>> > what
>> >
>> > it is,
>> > but there
>> > is not a single sighted soul to tell me
>> > what it
>> >
>> > is? I
>> >
>> > know
>> >
>> > is a
>> > free
>> > alternative but, is it truly worth it?
>> > And, what
>> > if
>> >
>> > that
>> >
>> >
>> > sighted
>> >
>> > person
>> > lies
>> > about the amount of money that is on the
>> > bill?
>> >
>> > I would
>> > probably
>> > support ideas like the KNFB reader and
>> > the
>> >
>> > iBill
>> >
>> >
>> > identifier
>> >
>> > if they
>> > were
>> > even cheaper. If they were so, I would
>> > buy one or
>> >
>> > the
>> >
>> >
>> > other,
>> >
>> > but so
>> > far, I
>> > can not afford either one.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l
>> > mailing
>> > list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> > unsubscribe,
>> > change
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>> > for
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>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfb
>> > net.org/carlymih%4
>> >
>> > 0earthlink.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> > --
>> > Arielle Silverman
>> > President, National Association of Blind Students
>> > Phone: 602-502-2255
>> > Email:
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>> > Website:
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