[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Tue Jun 28 03:30:32 UTC 2011

Ashley,
  Whoever says you'd have to touch the burgers if you knew what you
were doing?  I thought that's what spatulas and forks, or at the very
least oven mits, were for?
  Best,
Kirt

On 6/27/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joseph,
>   Even while reading braille at 300 words per minute (which is kind of
> rare but not un heard of), sighted people can still glance at the page
> and find what they want faster than we can.  And even for those of us
> who have the time to train our palms to be as sensitive as our
> fingertips (I'd wager not many of us do-there's a life to live, even
> as a college student), I'd give the edge in efficiency to a sighted
> person who can quickly glance at the information as opposed to feeling
> for it with our fingers.  Don't get me wrong; I love braille.  One of
> the reasons I'm really considering going to a center is so I can
> become one of those lightning-fast braille readers.  But even then,
> being able to glance at the page without having to feel it is faster,
> I would think.
>   There is, I think, a pertanent point to be made here.  When you have
> to read through something without skimming, I actually think those of
> us who speed jaws up to a billion words per minute and can comprehend
> what we listen to have an advantage over our sighted peers.  I know
> there have been plenty of times I've whipped out my headphones and
> gone through in a half an hour to 45 minutes reading the same material
> that takes most people an hour to an hour and a half.  But, that said,
> lots of things do take longer for us.  I *needed* those time
> extentions on my AP tests and ACT tests because those dang graphs and
> maps were hard enough to feel with my fingertips, let alone my palms!
> And, since I'm not one of those blazing fast braille readers, I had to
> make due with my 145 to 150 words per minute-plus I had to go back and
> look at my essay for any braille translation errors/extra braille keys
> pushed in the speed of the moment.  That's something sighted people,
> writing their essays by hand, don't have to worry about...and it takes
> longer!  It just does.
>   And yeah, lots of the students I know who are taking classes don't
> work.  Take my roommates for example-a pretty much random sample of
> boys attending Brigham Young University who all kind of got thrown
> together.  Me and two of my roommates had jobs, three did not.  I had
> to quit my job because I wanted a life outside of class, one of my
> roommates told me many times he would probably have quit, or not even
> taken the job in the first place, were it not a family friend that
> hired him.  So out of the six of us, I was one of the 50 percent that
> tried my hand at working a job my freshman year.  I'm pretty sure I
> won't try again-making friends and living life is as important to me
> as devoting myself to my education.  If I were to get a job, it's no
> exhageration to say I'd have only a little bit of a chance to get
> involved on campus and make friends-I'm not willing to give that up
> unless I absolutely have to.
>   Anyways, we've talked circles around each other for too long, I
> think.  I respect your points and best of luck, my friend.
>   Best,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/27/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi, Kurt,
>>
>> 'Thought I had missed where Joseph edified the
>> list, as to which jobs he himself has had, while
>> going to school. At 03:04 PM 6/27/2011, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>>>Joeseph, Ah, sighted people have so called
>>>handouts too like food stamps and if you are
>>>poor enough, Medicaid. This philosophy doesn't
>>>match reality. The reality is it takes longer to
>>>study college material, particularly visual
>>>subjects since we got to have descriptions or a
>>>reader make tactile diagrams. The reality is
>>>that many colleges such as the community college
>>>do not have updated screen reading software
>>>making it an unlevel playing field. The reality
>>>is that if you are not writing that short essay
>>>yourself, it takes longer, I mean longer, to
>>>dictate it to a scribe. Oh then that scribe has
>>>to read it back to you with punctuation to
>>>ensure you have it as you want it, where as a
>>>sighted person can read it silently. Maybe you
>>>took all your tests electronically, and used
>>>jaws fast, but not all of us have that resource.
>>>Bottom line it takes longer to study and as Kirt
>>>said working while in school is Not practical
>>>for many reasons. You never said what part time
>>>jobs we could do anyway. You yourself haven't
>>>had many interviews even with a college diploma.
>>>Remember most college students are servers or
>>>are selling something like tickets.  When I took
>>>interpersonal communication we did introductions
>>>and like a fourth of the class was waiting
>>>tables part time at restaurants; a few were
>>>pizza delivery drivers. Now a blind person can't
>>>perform the duties of those jobs.  I said before
>>>you can work part time if you find the right
>>>employer; you could work as a tutor, babysitter,
>>>dog walker, or maybe even as a
>>>receptionist.  But its hard to find an open
>>>minded employer without that college education
>>>and I contend that its harder to find little odd
>>>jobs to work through school. So seems to me you
>>>really are not practicing what your preaching.
>>>Show me some blind students who work part time
>>>and how they do it.  Come on, is an employer
>>>really going to say, buy jaws when the employee
>>>is only working 20 hours a week and won't be
>>>there for the long term?  Do you really think
>>>that employer will invest $1000 for that part
>>>time receptionist or customer service
>>>representative?  That money goes toward a screen
>>>reader. I do hope you find work soon though so
>>>you won't have to deal with the government.
>>>Ashley -----Original Message----- From: T.
>>>Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:26
>>>AM To: National Association of Blind Students
>>>mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>>>[Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview,
>>>Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>>>June 22, 8:00 pm EDT Actually, the system
>>>supposedly provides an income to people who are
>>>incapable of working.  Thatâ€™s what permanently
>>>disabled means.  You get government money
>>>because you meet the definition of being unable
>>>to engage in substantially gainful activity
>>>(i.e., a job). The only way we achieve equality
>>>is when a person is not thought to be
>>>unemployable just because they are blind.  Now,
>>>I know how far we are from that day.  There are
>>>a good number of us who canâ€™t seem to find
>>>employment largely because of that one simple
>>>fact. All Iâ€™m saying is that we shouldnâ€™t
>>>delude ourselves and start thinking the system
>>>is anything other than what it is: A handout to
>>>the disabled, because in the eyes of the
>>>government weâ€™re pitiful and helpless, unable
>>>to work for a living.  If stripping away the
>>>mask makes people angry, it SHOULD make them
>>>angry. The social security system to us
>>>represents the scraps we are given to placate
>>>us.  To keep us content that we still have a
>>>living, even though we do not have access to the
>>>skills and opportunities that would allow us to
>>>succeed, excel, and compete for the same goals
>>>that our non-disabled peers do. Absolutely we
>>>should use it when we can as a stepping stone to
>>>something greater, but so many of us fall into
>>>the trap of believing that it is what we
>>>deserve.  No, thereâ€™s no dignity in that kind
>>>of life, and if we deserve anything at all it is
>>>dignity.  So therefore I conclude that we
>>>deserve far better.  And for myself at least, I
>>>intend to find better. Joseph On Sun, Jun 26,
>>>2011 at 07:22:22PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>wrote: >Joseph, >  I think you make very good
>>>points.  As I understand it, the system >is
>>>designed to give financial support to those who,
>>>because of >disability, have a difficult time
>>>working.  The only reason I'm on SSI >is because
>>>doing my school work, on average, takes a
>>>substantially >longer time than it would if I
>>>were sighted because the alternative >techniques
>>>I use often are slower than using
>>>sight.  (readers, test >scribes, needing to feel
>>>all the details on braille graphs vs.
>>>being >able to look at it all at once and glance
>>>at what I need later, etc.) >School is preparing
>>>me to work a regular job-since my
>>>alternative >techniques require lots of time
>>>work isn't really practical for me >while I go
>>>through school.  I suspect that's why you
>>>applied for SSI >in the first place.  The system
>>>is not designed to take people who
>>>are >perfectly capable of working and make them
>>>in to couch potatoes-I >think that's an
>>>unfortunate side effect of the whole
>>>deal.  Rest >assured, once I get a full-time
>>>job, I'll cut the chord with
>>>SSI. >Permanently. >  I can only speak for me,
>>>and how I see the system.  I don't think it >was
>>>ever intended to be a handout or something to
>>>keep able people >from working.  It's
>>>unfortunate many people abuse the system and,
>>>I'll >admit, it makes me angry!  But do you have
>>>a better idea to make sure >we're able to get
>>>the education we need to work?  And anyway (I'm
>>>not >talking about you, I don't know your
>>>situation), if someone's able to >work a
>>>full-time job, what business do they have
>>>getting SSI?  Best, >Kirt > >On 6/26/11, T.
>>>Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>wrote: >> Wait, are you saying the system is
>>>designed for us to sit on our >> collective
>>>duffs and mooch off of others while we piddle
>>>around and >> do nothing?  Does that seem like
>>>an appropriate system to you? >> >> You know how
>>>most people get through school?  They work.  Why
>>>should >> we be different?  Yes, I know we ARE,
>>>but why should we accept that? >> We cannot work
>>>through school because the very act of going
>>>through >> school takes us
>>>longer.  Why?  Because we havenâ€™t got the
>>>skills to >> keep up.  Why?  Because the same
>>>system that is giving us our little >> handout
>>>(for which Iâ€™m told we should be grateful) has
>>>actively >> interfered in our efforts to be and
>>>do better than that. >> >> As for suing, how,
>>>whom, and why?  My benefits were never
>>>actually >> stopped, only threatened.  Just
>>>enough to keep me jumping for my >> government
>>>slavemasters.  I was entitled to, had, and won
>>>each of my >> appeals, so the system worked as
>>>designed. >> >> Iâ€™m just no longer willing to
>>>be a slave. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Jun
>>>25, 2011 at 01:18:23PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>wrote: >>>Joseph, >>>  You make great points,
>>>and I really do feel for
>>>you.  That's >>>aweful...like, maybe get a
>>>social security lawyer kind of aweful. >>>  All
>>>I'm saying is, the way the system is intended to
>>>work (and the >>>way it works for a lot of us),
>>>SSI is necessary income.  I'm using it >>>so I
>>>don't starve through school; the minute I get
>>>out and find a >>>full-time job, I'm saying
>>>goodbye to my SSI for good.  That's how
>>>it >>>should be-use it to get yourself able to
>>>work then cut the cord.  I >>>know lots of
>>>people abuse it, I know it's poorly managed, and
>>>I know >>>you're getting screwed by the
>>>system.  But the way I see it, it's >>>designed
>>>to be a boost up to equality, not a handout.  Of
>>>course, >>>everyone doesn't use it that
>>>way. >>>  In any case, best of luck.  I hope
>>>things work out for you.  For >>>what it's
>>>worth, I'm sorry you're going through all this
>>>crap. >>>  Best wishes, >>>Kirt >>> >>>On
>>>6/25/11, T. Joseph Carter
>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>
>>>Kirt, >>>> >>>> Social Security and SSI are
>>>still a handout, and they come with >>>> strings
>>>attached that make getting off of them pretty
>>>difficult. >>>> Especially if you live in
>>>subsidized housing, collect food stamps, >>>>
>>>receive utility subsidies, etc.  If you do and
>>>you go and find >>>> yourself a job that
>>>doesnâ€™t pay enough, you will have a sudden
>>>net >>>> reduction in your income that already
>>>doesnâ€™t pay the bills. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™ve
>>>decided Iâ€™m getting off this roller coaster
>>>even if it makes me >>>> homeless in the
>>>process, because Iâ€™m sick and tired of living
>>>in fear >>>> that they might take away my
>>>benefits!  Iâ€™ve gotten three letters to >>>>
>>>that effect in the past two years, in the midst
>>>of cancer treatment >>>> for two of them, all
>>>with the customary 30 day appeal Iâ€™d better
>>>take >>>> advantage of if I want to be able to
>>>survive another month! >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m tired of
>>>getting paid to NOT work.  Iâ€™m tired of living
>>>in places >>>> where the government intrudes
>>>upon my home three times a year to make >>>>
>>>sure my landlord isnâ€™t complete pond scum (but
>>>allowing them to be >>>> one level removed from
>>>pond scum!)  Iâ€™m tired of being told that if
>>>I >>>> start working, my rent will suddenly be
>>>120% of what anybody in their >>>> right might
>>>would ever pay for this dump.  And Iâ€™m tired
>>>of being >>>> told that theyâ€™re sorry, but I
>>>just donâ€™t qualify for the work >>>>
>>>incentives, or the better medical coverage, or
>>>the exemptions that >>>> might possibly allow me
>>>to save a few hundred dollars with which to >>>>
>>>actually get out of here! >>>> >>>> Your
>>>not-a-handout Social Security and SSI have made
>>>slaves of far >>>> too many of us.  Perfectly
>>>able to work, but afraid to try for fear >>>>
>>>that weâ€™ll lose what little weâ€™ve got.  We
>>>are trapped in a prison of >>>> learned
>>>helplessness, and the only way out is to see
>>>these things—all >>>> of them—for what theyhey
>>>are: Government handouts designed to keep
>>>us >>>> docile, afraid, and living in
>>>poverty. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m done playing that
>>>game. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat,
>>>Jun 25, 2011 at 09:13:21AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>wrote: >>>>>Carley, >>>>>  First off, I've done
>>>a bit of really light research and I was
>>>way >>>>>liberal about what I thought the cost
>>>of this would be.  It's probably >>>>>going to
>>>be in the neighborhood of $100 million, so I was
>>>way off. >>>>>That'll teach me not to make
>>>outlandish statements with no proof. >>>>>  But
>>>still, the point I made in my last message
>>>stands.  Of course I >>>>>don't want the
>>>government to write out a check for all of us-I
>>>was >>>>>trying to point out that trying to make
>>>all the cash out there
>>>more >>>>>"blind-friendly" is not
>>>necessary.  Just like we don't need
>>>government >>>>>handouts (I'm not counting SSI
>>>as a government handout because
>>>that's >>>>>money lots of us genuinely need), we
>>>don't need the government >>>>>spending $100
>>>million redesigning currency we can already use
>>>with >>>>>pretty much no problem.  Honestly, if
>>>you think you can't afford an >>>>>iBill,
>>>there's probably something you're buying with
>>>your $680 a month >>>>>that you really don't
>>>need. >>>>>  Just a thought, >>>>>Kirt >>>> >>>>
>>>_______________________________________________ >
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>>></x-flowed>
>>
>>
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