[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Wed Jun 29 22:36:02 UTC 2011

Chris,
I don't know. Maybe gmail has delayed your mail somehow.

-----Original Message----- 
From: chris nusbaum
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 6:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride 
into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Whoa! I'm getting these emails on the Gmail Web site (as I'm checking
email on my laptop with JAWS) dated today that I read on my
BrailleNote using KeyMail like last week! Don't know what's going on
there. Is this on your end, Kirt, or mine?

On 6/29/11, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
> Probably not.  "By the way, if you discriminate against me, I know
> lawyers" isn’t the kind of thing you want to convey to a prospective
> employer.  *grin*
>
> Joseph
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:16:15PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>Joseph,
>>  Haha, but I bet it would be something nice to say in a job interview?
>>
>>On 6/29/11, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Too bad it can’t fit on a resume.  *grin*
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 04:47:28PM -0400, bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> wrote:
>>>>Joseph,
>>>>I'd say putting 60 hours  into a legal battle and being a full time
>>>>student shows time management and the ability to withstand pressure.
>>>>I'd say that battle was a full time job even if you weren't paid for it!
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message----- From: T. Joseph Carter
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 12:52 AM
>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview,
>>>>Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>>>
>>>>Carly,
>>>>
>>>>When going through school as an undergraduate, I stupidly believed
>>>>that I could not work.  I continued to believe that my first year of
>>>>graduate school.
>>>>
>>>>In my second year, I could have worked if I were otherwise just a
>>>>normal (blind) student in a normal graduate program.  The fact was
>>>>that I was not.  In my second year of graduate school, from September
>>>>through June, I was involved in a time-consuming and costly legal
>>>>battle with the university.  I spent between 60 and 80 hours a week
>>>>engaged in that battle, and I was a full-time student besides.  In
>>>>fact, in the first quarter of the school year, I had student teaching
>>>>during part of the day (after negotiating inter-city public transit
>>>>of course), classes in the evening afterward, and I got to have my
>>>>approximately 60 hour a week legal battle in my off-hours or in
>>>>between.
>>>>
>>>>Needless to say, I didn’t sleep as much that year as I was previously
>>>>accustomed to doing.  Had it been the full 80 hours a week I put into
>>>>the process during winter term during the fall term, I could not have
>>>>kept up.  The university did not know how close I was to being unable
>>>>to keep up with their crap—but I managed to hold them off of the
>>>>really heavy stuff until January.  I exchanged more than 1,000 emails
>>>>with university faculty between September and January 16th.  Another
>>>>1,000 by August.
>>>>
>>>>If I could do that, in a hostile environment, with professors
>>>>actively looking to fail me on every single assignment or find some
>>>>way to manufacture some trumped up disciplinary action or something,
>>>>then I most certainly could have dropped chicken strips into a deep
>>>>fryer for a living.  Indeed, the fact that I could make time for that
>>>>legal battle when I had to is what caused me to realize that I could
>>>>have made time for a job down at KFC or something.
>>>>
>>>>If you don’t want to work, then don’t.  But the option exists, and
>>>>lots of people manage somehow to make it work receiving nothing but
>>>>federal student aid without a separate government check every month.
>>>>
>>>>Joseph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 06:26:18PM -0700, Carly Mihalakis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi, Kurt,
>>>>>
>>>>>'Thought I had missed where Joseph edified the list, as to which
>>>>>jobs he himself has had, while going to school. At 03:04 PM
>>>>>6/27/2011, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>>>Joeseph, Ah, sighted people have so called handouts too like food
>>>>>>stamps and if you are poor enough, Medicaid. This philosophy
>>>>>>doesn't match reality. The reality is it takes longer to study
>>>>>>college material, particularly visual subjects since we got to
>>>>>>have descriptions or a reader make tactile diagrams. The reality
>>>>>>is that many colleges such as the community college do not have
>>>>>>updated screen reading software making it an unlevel playing
>>>>>>field. The reality is that if you are not writing that short
>>>>>>essay yourself, it takes longer, I mean longer, to dictate it to
>>>>>>a scribe. Oh then that scribe has to read it back to you with
>>>>>>punctuation to ensure you have it as you want it, where as a
>>>>>>sighted person can read it silently. Maybe you took all your
>>>>>>tests electronically, and used jaws fast, but not all of us have
>>>>>>that resource. Bottom line it takes longer to study and as Kirt
>>>>>>said working while in school is Not practical for many reasons.
>>>>>>You never said what part time jobs we could do anyway. You
>>>>>>yourself haven't had many interviews even with a college diploma.
>>>>>>Remember most college students are servers or are selling
>>>>>>something like tickets. When I took interpersonal communication
>>>>>>we did introductions and like a fourth of the class was waiting
>>>>>>tables part time at restaurants; a few were pizza delivery
>>>>>>drivers. Now a blind person can't perform the duties of those
>>>>>>jobs.  I said before you can work part time if you find the right
>>>>>>employer; you could work as a tutor, babysitter, dog walker, or
>>>>>>maybe even as a receptionist.  But its hard to find an open
>>>>>>minded employer without that college education and I contend that
>>>>>>its harder to find little odd jobs to work through school. So
>>>>>>seems to me you really are not practicing what your preaching.
>>>>>>Show me some blind students who work part time and how they do
>>>>>>it.  Come on, is an employer really going to say, buy jaws when
>>>>>>the employee is only working 20 hours a week and won't be there
>>>>>>for the long term?  Do you really think that employer will invest
>>>>>>$1000 for that part time receptionist or customer service
>>>>>>representative?  That money goes toward a screen reader. I do
>>>>>>hope you find work soon though so you won't have to deal with the
>>>>>>government. Ashley -----Original Message----- From: T. Joseph
>>>>>>Carter Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:26 AM To: National
>>>>>>Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>>>>>>[Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into
>>>>>>History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT
>>>>>>Actually, the system supposedly provides an income to people who
>>>>>>are incapable of working.  Thatâ€™s what permanently disabled
>>>>>>means.  You get government money because you meet the definition
>>>>>>of being unable to engage in substantially gainful activity
>>>>>>(i.e., a job). The only way we achieve equality is when a person
>>>>>>is not thought to be unemployable just because they are blind.
>>>>>>Now, I know how far we are from that day.  There are a good
>>>>>>number of us who canâ€™t seem to find employment largely because
>>>>>>of that one simple fact. All Iâ€™m saying is that we shouldnâ€™t
>>>>>>delude ourselves and start thinking the system is anything other
>>>>>>than what it is: A handout to the disabled, because in the eyes
>>>>>>of the government weâ€™re pitiful and helpless, unable to work
>>>>>>for a living.  If stripping away the mask makes people angry, it
>>>>>>SHOULD make them angry. The social security system to us
>>>>>>represents the scraps we are given to placate us.  To keep us
>>>>>>content that we still have a living, even though we do not have
>>>>>>access to the skills and opportunities that would allow us to
>>>>>>succeed, excel, and compete for the same goals that our
>>>>>>non-disabled peers do. Absolutely we should use it when we can as
>>>>>>a stepping stone to something greater, but so many of us fall
>>>>>>into the trap of believing that it is what we deserve. No,
>>>>>>thereâ€™s no dignity in that kind of life, and if we deserve
>>>>>>anything at all it is dignity.  So therefore I conclude that we
>>>>>>deserve far better. And for myself at least, I intend to find
>>>>>>better. Joseph On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 07:22:22PM -0600, Kirt
>>>>>>Manwaring wrote: >Joseph, >  I think you make very good points.
>>>>>>As I understand it, the system >is designed to give financial
>>>>>>support to those who, because of >disability, have a difficult
>>>>>>time working.  The only reason I'm on SSI >is because doing my
>>>>>>school work, on average, takes a substantially
>>>>>>>longer time than it would if I were sighted because the
>>>>>>alternative >techniques I use often are slower than using sight.
>>>>>>(readers, test >scribes, needing to feel all the details on
>>>>>>braille graphs vs. being >able to look at it all at once and
>>>>>>glance at what I need later, etc.) >School is preparing me to
>>>>>>work a regular job-since my alternative >techniques require lots
>>>>>>of time work isn't really practical for me >while I go through
>>>>>>school.  I suspect that's why you applied for SSI >in the first
>>>>>>place.  The system is not designed to take people who are
>>>>>>>perfectly capable of working and make them in to couch
>>>>>>potatoes-I >think that's an unfortunate side effect of the whole
>>>>>>deal.  Rest >assured, once I get a full-time job, I'll cut the
>>>>>>chord with SSI. >Permanently. >  I can only speak for me, and how
>>>>>>I see the system.  I don't think it >was ever intended to be a
>>>>>>handout or something to keep able people >from working. It's
>>>>>>unfortunate many people abuse the system and, I'll >admit, it
>>>>>>makes me angry!  But do you have a better idea to make sure
>>>>>>>we're able to get the education we need to work?  And anyway
>>>>>>(I'm not >talking about you, I don't know your situation), if
>>>>>>someone's able to >work a full-time job, what business do they
>>>>>>have getting SSI?  Best, >Kirt > >On 6/26/11, T. Joseph Carter
>>>>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote: >> Wait, are you saying the
>>>>>>system is designed for us to sit on our >> collective duffs and
>>>>>>mooch off of others while we piddle around and >> do nothing?
>>>>>>Does that seem like an appropriate system to you? >> >> You know
>>>>>>how most people get through school?  They work.  Why should >> we
>>>>>>be different?  Yes, I know we ARE, but why should we accept that?
>>>>>>>> We cannot work through school because the very act of going
>>>>>>through >> school takes us longer.  Why? Because we havenâ€™t got
>>>>>>the skills to >> keep up.  Why?  Because the same system that is
>>>>>>giving us our little >> handout (for which Iâ€™m told we should
>>>>>>be grateful) has actively >> interfered in our efforts to be and
>>>>>>do better than that. >> >> As for suing, how, whom, and why?  My
>>>>>>benefits were never actually >> stopped, only threatened.  Just
>>>>>>enough to keep me jumping for my >> government slavemasters.  I
>>>>>>was entitled to, had, and won each of my >> appeals, so the
>>>>>>system worked as designed. >> >> Iâ€™m just no longer willing to
>>>>>>be a slave. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at
>>>>>>01:18:23PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote: >>>Joseph, >>>  You make
>>>>>>great points, and I really do feel for you.  That's
>>>>>>>>>aweful...like, maybe get a social security lawyer kind of
>>>>>>aweful. >>>  All I'm saying is, the way the system is intended to
>>>>>>work (and the >>>way it works for a lot of us), SSI is necessary
>>>>>>income.  I'm using it >>>so I don't starve through school; the
>>>>>>minute I get out and find a >>>full-time job, I'm saying goodbye
>>>>>>to my SSI for good.  That's how it >>>should be-use it to get
>>>>>>yourself able to work then cut the cord. I >>>know lots of people
>>>>>>abuse it, I know it's poorly managed, and I know >>>you're
>>>>>>getting screwed by the system.  But the way I see it, it's
>>>>>>>>>designed to be a boost up to equality, not a handout.  Of
>>>>>>course, >>>everyone doesn't use it that way. >>>  In any case,
>>>>>>best of luck.  I hope things work out for you.  For >>>what it's
>>>>>>worth, I'm sorry you're going through all this crap. >>>  Best
>>>>>>wishes, >>>Kirt >>> >>>On 6/25/11, T. Joseph Carter
>>>>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Kirt, >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Social Security and SSI are still a handout, and they come
>>>>>>with >>>> strings attached that make getting off of them pretty
>>>>>>difficult. >>>> Especially if you live in subsidized housing,
>>>>>>collect food stamps, >>>> receive utility subsidies, etc.  If you
>>>>>>do and you go and find >>>> yourself a job that doesnâ€™t pay
>>>>>>enough, you will have a sudden net >>>> reduction in your income
>>>>>>that already doesnâ€™t pay the bills. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™ve decided
>>>>>>Iâ€™m getting off this roller coaster even if it makes me >>>>
>>>>>>homeless in the process, because Iâ€™m sick and tired of living
>>>>>>in fear >>>> that they might take away my benefits!  Iâ€™ve
>>>>>>gotten three letters to >>>> that effect in the past two years,
>>>>>>in the midst of cancer treatment >>>> for two of them, all with
>>>>>>the customary 30 day appeal Iâ€™d better take >>>> advantage of
>>>>>>if I want to be able to survive another month! >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m
>>>>>>tired of getting paid to NOT work.  Iâ€™m tired of living in
>>>>>>places >>>> where the government intrudes upon my home three
>>>>>>times a year to make >>>> sure my landlord isnâ€™t complete pond
>>>>>>scum (but allowing them to be >>>> one level removed from pond
>>>>>>scum!)  Iâ€™m tired of being told that if I >>>> start working,
>>>>>>my rent will suddenly be 120% of what anybody in their >>>> right
>>>>>>might would ever pay for this dump. And Iâ€™m tired of being >>>>
>>>>>>told that theyâ€™re sorry, but I just donâ€™t qualify for the
>>>>>>work >>>> incentives, or the better medical coverage, or the
>>>>>>exemptions that >>>> might possibly allow me to save a few
>>>>>>hundred dollars with which to >>>> actually get out of here! >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your not-a-handout Social Security and SSI have made slaves
>>>>>>of far >>>> too many of us.  Perfectly able to work, but afraid
>>>>>>to try for fear >>>> that weâ€™ll lose what little weâ€™ve got.
>>>>>>We are trapped in a prison of >>>> learned helplessness, and the
>>>>>>only way out is to see these things—all >>>> of them—for what
>>>>>>theyhey are: Government handouts designed to keep us >>>> docile,
>>>>>>afraid, and living in poverty.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iâ€™m done playing that game. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 09:13:21AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>Carley, >>>>>  First off, I've done a bit of really
>>>>>>light research and I was way >>>>>liberal about what I thought
>>>>>>the cost of this would be.  It's probably >>>>>going to be in the
>>>>>>neighborhood of $100 million, so I was way off. >>>>>That'll
>>>>>>teach me not to make outlandish statements with no proof. >>>>>
>>>>>>But still, the point I made in my last message stands.  Of course
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>don't want the government to write out a check for all of us-I
>>>>>>was >>>>>trying to point out that trying to make all the cash out
>>>>>>there more >>>>>"blind-friendly" is not necessary.  Just like we
>>>>>>don't need government >>>>>handouts (I'm not counting SSI as a
>>>>>>government handout because that's >>>>>money lots of us genuinely
>>>>>>need), we don't need the government >>>>>spending $100 million
>>>>>>redesigning currency we can already use with >>>>>pretty much no
>>>>>>problem.  Honestly, if you think you can't afford an >>>>>iBill,
>>>>>>there's probably something you're buying with your $680 a month
>>>>>>>>>>>that you really don't need. >>>>>  Just a thought, >>>>>Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>
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>>>>>></x-flowed>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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-- 
Chris

"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
Visit Camp Abilities online at: www.campabilities.org
Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info.

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