[nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps complaint

Tue Mar 22 20:47:59 UTC 2011

That's true and I said that. There are no grounds to sue google; yet 
universities need to provide accessible content to students.
I hope they prevail and google changes because they will lose business from 
the university.

-----Original Message----- 
From: David Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:02 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps complaint

Frankly, you and others are getting ridiculous in your speculation,
attribution of motives etc.  We don't sue Google directly, because
there are no grounds.  There is no law that says they have to develop
accessible applications.  There are laws that govern what others,
like universities do, they may not be able to use inaccessible apps,
but that doesn't mean that somebody couldn't sell them.

Also, these things do not happen in a vacuum, or with out much
consideration.  For someone to suggest that the NFB has not tried to
contact, and work with Google is naive at best.  Also, lawsuits are
expensive, time consuming, and disastrous if we loose.  So, these
things aren't lightly done, or just done to get publicity.

Come on guys ..... think.  We are not a bunch of idiots!

David Andrews

At 05:31 PM 3/16/2011, you wrote:
>The only reason for doing this that makes sense to me is the NFB not
>wanting to get in to a long, drawn-out court battle with google.  I
>know the Federation has money to spare...but going up against the
>likes of google and winning would take a lot of money and, probably,
>litigation.  So maybe they see this as a way to bring about some
>limited improvements and set a precident for the future?  Sounds like
>a stretch, but it's all I can think of.
>   Best,
>Kirt
>
>On 3/16/11, Laura Glowacki <orangebutterfly87 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I agree.  Google has done a lot in the past with seeking feedback
> > from users on accessibility.  Obviously there are still things
> > that need to be worked on, but has anyone actually approached
> > google and offer to help with that process?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jorge Paez" <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] confused - regarding - NFB Google Apps
> > complaint
> >
> >
> > I don't know,
> > this just sounds odd considering how much talk there has been on
> > this very list about
> > precisely how accessible Google Apps are.
> >
> > Seems like a weird move by the leadership if they're trying to
> > get attention.
> >
> > And get attention for what exactly?
> >
> > Jorge
> >
> >
> > On Mar 16, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Ignasi Cambra wrote:
> >
> >> I think it's true that Google could do a lot more in terms of
> >> accessibility, especially with Google Docs. But their email and
> >> calendar services are perfectly accessible. Gmail even has an
> >> HTML only version which is as simple as it gets. Also, the good
> >> thing about Google apps is that you can use them through other
> >> software. I use Gmail and Google calendar everyday with my Mac,
> >> but I never actually open the Google site for that. I get my
> >> emails through Imap and use iCal to look at the calendar and
> >> add events etc.
> >> In other words, I think this complaint should have formulated
> >> differently. There are lots of things that can and should be
> >> fixed, but saying that these services are not usable by blind
> >> people in those universities is lying. My university uses
> >> Google apps, and I'm not complaining about it because I can use
> >> it...!!
> >> On Mar 16, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Jorge Paez wrote:
> >>
> >>> Precisely my thoughts.
> >>>
> >>> Where's the NFB suing Freedom Scientific?
> >>>
> >>> Or Google?
> >>>
> >>> Gosh knows Google could do way more then any school to fix
> >>> that problem.
> >>>
> >>> Just my thoughts.
> >>>
> >>> Jorge
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 16, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> Google Aps are accessible with screen readers that have
> >>>> innovated and
> >>>> are able to use google apps such as NVDA for example. JFW
> >>>> works, but
> >>>> very limitedly. What happened to the screen reader companies
> >>>> doing
> >>>> their jobs and making things accessible instead of the NFB
> >>>> getting
> >>>> sue-happy *gain* and complaining because screen reader
> >>>> companies are
> >>>> falling behind? I don't think that Google has _ever refused
> >>>> to work on
> >>>> accessibility for anyone. Just saying ...
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 16/03/2011, Jorge Paez <jorgeapaez at mac.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Hello fellow NABS members.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm sure most of you have heard about the complaint National
> >>>>> filed regarding
> >>>>> universities using Google Apps.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From what I understand, GMail is completely accessible but
> >>>>>> the rest isn't.
> >>>>> (I've never used anything more then Gmail in the apps as of
> >>>>> yet),
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but so far, I haven't seen many people use this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Are we complaining because the University is mandating that
> >>>>> everything be
> >>>>> done threw Google Apps (part of which is unaccessible) or
> >>>>> are we complaining
> >>>>> for simply using inaccessible web applications that could
> >>>>> potentially pose
> >>>>> problems?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jorge
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Nimer M. Jaber
> >>>>
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> >>>> and above, please click here:
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