[nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS

Mike Freeman k7uij at panix.com
Tue May 3 02:08:39 UTC 2011


Arielle:

I admire the clear presentation of your position.  And if an audible traffic
signal made one brief noise at the start of a WALK cycle and then shut up, I
wouldn't be so disenchanted with them.  However, I am one of those
individuals who finds the majority of them distracting at a minimum.  And I
never found T intersections and turn-arrows to be a significant barrier to
safe crossing; what *is* a barrier is cars that don't obey their *own*
signals and APS's wouldn't help with this.

Moreover, with respect to the deaf-blind, I think we of NFB and, for that
matter, every other organization of the blind, speak with forked tongue.
One the one hand, we often say that audible pedestrian signals are no
substitute for good training and listening.  Yet we speak of having
vibrotactile signals for the deaf-blind who, by definition, cannot listen.
We can't have it both ways.  I know the deaf-blind don't like to hear this
and we don't like to say it but methinks we need to adopt a consistent,
congruent position on travel of the deaf-blind without reference to
sentiment.

Let the flames begin. (big smile)

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 4:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS

Hi Ashley and all,

I don't know exactly what NFB's official position is at this point. I
personally am a big fan of audible traffic signals, for a few reasons.
First, as you pointed out, there are several kinds of intersections where
the auditory cue to cross is rather subtle-such as T-intersections, those
where the parallel street is generally quiet or those with leading turn
arrows, where you have to listen for the turning traffic to stop before
crossing. I know it is possible to reliably cross these kinds of
intersections using traffic cues alone, but the potential for mistakes (both
missing the cue to cross and inadvertently crossing at the wrong time) is
substantial especially for those who have had insufficient training. Second,
as far as I know, there is no reliable way to tell when your walk signal is
about to end. So if you come up to an intersection and the light is in your
favor, there's no way to tell whether you will have enough time to cross
before the light changes. The only really safe way to handle this is to wait
until the light turns red and then green again, which can be inconvenient.
Trust me, I've gambled on these and tried to cross without enough time-the
result is scary not to mention embarrassing. Finally, though I know this
logic is not always popular, I do think that if the sighted are given a
clear cue to cross the street and it is not an undue hardship to make that
signal accessible to the blind, it should be done. I can't imagine an
intersection where sighted pedestrians are expected to watch the traffic
without any kind of walk signal or light indicating when it was safe to
cross.
That being said, I don't think this necessarily has to be our biggest
priority at this time. I also recognize that some blind travelers find
audible signals bothersome and I would support some way of making the sound
optional or implementing a tactile (i.e. vibrating) signal, which would also
benefit the deaf-blind.

Arielle

On 5/2/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought it wasn't supposed to be enforced till like 2012?
>
>
> On May 2, 2011, at 7:14 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> George,
>> Actually the ACB seems as mad as ever; yes they won in the court; but 
>> the government has not produced accessible currency yet.
>> Some do not feel the decision will be enforced.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 6:57 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS
>>
>> I believe the national is officially against expanding the use of APS.
>>
>> As far as accessible currency, didn't the ACB already close that case 
>> in court?
>> ACB V. US trasury 2009 or something like that?
>>
>>
>> On May 2, 2011, at 6:36 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am on the ACB list and as usual with controversial topics, they 
>>> are taking the Accessible pedestrian signal and accessible currency 
>>> topics and really trashing the NFB and they don't know the real 
>>> positions and facts.
>>> They think NFB opposes both.
>>> I may not tell them as they will not listen, but what are the positions?
>>> Nfb is not opposed to APS fully.
>>>
>>> What is the national position? Any late resolutions?  Also, what do 
>>> you think and when have you found them helpful or not helpful?
>>> Personally, I'd like the APS at intersections where you have to 
>>> press the walk button as a pedestrian.  We cannot see the walk 
>>> signal to know when our time starts; you have to press the button in 
>>> order to tell the computer that you are a pedestrian and need a walk 
>>> phase to cross the street.  I think these are called actuated 
>>> signals.  These streets favor drivers, not pedestrians; the busier 
>>> streets get more traffic time.  That change of the signal is activated
by a computer.
>>>
>>> At fixed time streets, those streets with a set time to cross, 
>>> without a button are easier IMO and you got sufficient traffic cues 
>>> to hear to cross.
>>> I also think some streets are more complex now a days with more turn 
>>> lanes and islands, and a accessible signal would be great.  Some 
>>> signals even talk to you and count down the time left in the walk
interval.
>>>
>>> So I guess I see APS as a benefit  when you have insufficient 
>>> traffic cues to cross the street.  I've tried to learn how to cross 
>>> T streets, and those are confusing too; maybe the APS would help 
>>> there too.  No parallel traffic on T-shaped streets.
>>>
>>> Look forward to your thoughts; I know NFB modified their position on 
>>> APS, so I'm not sure what it is now.  I certainly don't want them 
>>> everywhere, but in several cases with complex traffic patterns I can see
their use.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertech
>>> jorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/computertechj
>> orgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president
> %40gmail.com
>


--
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com





More information about the NABS-L mailing list