[nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS

Sat May 7 15:21:25 UTC 2011

One of the guys in our Agriculture and Equestrian Division who lives in San
diego tells of an instance when a car pulled up to an intersection with an
APS (there are quite a number in that city) and, rather than looking at the
light, just listened for the APS.  He stepped on the gas and ran smackdab
into a car broadside because the light wasn't in his favor. Turns out there
was actually a bird that sounded like the APS and he thought it *was* the
APS when, in fact, the APS hadn't sounded. (grin) I think the Ag and Eq
division member's name is Fred chambers.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ignasi Cambra
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 1:39 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS

I don't think people would get confused though... I mean sounds are
different when they come out of a speaker... Well, in any case I hope they
don't have any of those birds in Madrid cause if they do they must be
learning lots of things these days :).
On May 4, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Jedi wrote:

> There's just one problem with that. I believe it's Australia. In fact, I'm
sure it is. They have this bird called a lyrebird, and it has the ability to
mimic the sounds it hears. So, if it hears this special bird song and mimics
it, some blind person's life could be in danger if she or he doens't know
how to read traffic. I've heard of other birds having a similar ability as
the lyrebird. So, I'd vote for some other pleasant sound that's a little
harder for wildlife to mimic such as a piano tune or something.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
> 
> Original message:
>> I just remembered that in Madrid they have an other interesting system:
where APS make this rather pleasant sound which sounds just like a bird
singing. It's actually not annoying, and they have them literally all over
the city. At this point it's just a sound that one identifies with Madrid.
The bird also sings differently depending on how much time you have left to
cross etc. The first time I heard it I thought it was funny, but the truth
is that it doesn't bother people and it does the job.
>> On May 3, 2011, at 11:26 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
> 
>>> Hello all,
> 
>>> I, personally, do not have a problem with APS so long as they are spaced
far enough apart and aren't too bothersome to the public.  I also think that
there should always be a button, in case those who find them annoying don't
want to use them.  I don't have an issue with their presence at high-traffic
intersections or complex crossings such as those mentioned by other members
of the list; however, imagine having APS at every intersection in a downtown
area?  That would be a nightmare for everyone!
> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Robby
>>> On 5/2/2011 7:42 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>> Hi Ashley and all,
> 
>>>> I don't know exactly what NFB's official position is at this point. I
>>>> personally am a big fan of audible traffic signals, for a few reasons.
>>>> First, as you pointed out, there are several kinds of intersections
>>>> where the auditory cue to cross is rather subtle-such as
>>>> T-intersections, those where the parallel street is generally quiet or
>>>> those with leading turn arrows, where you have to listen for the
>>>> turning traffic to stop before crossing. I know it is possible to
>>>> reliably cross these kinds of intersections using traffic cues alone,
>>>> but the potential for mistakes (both missing the cue to cross and
>>>> inadvertently crossing at the wrong time) is substantial especially
>>>> for those who have had insufficient training. Second, as far as I
>>>> know, there is no reliable way to tell when your walk signal is about
>>>> to end. So if you come up to an intersection and the light is in your
>>>> favor, there's no way to tell whether you will have enough time to
>>>> cross before the light changes. The only really safe way to handle
>>>> this is to wait until the light turns red and then green again, which
>>>> can be inconvenient. Trust me, I've gambled on these and tried to
>>>> cross without enough time-the result is scary not to mention
>>>> embarrassing. Finally, though I know this logic is not always popular,
>>>> I do think that if the sighted are given a clear cue to cross the
>>>> street and it is not an undue hardship to make that signal accessible
>>>> to the blind, it should be done. I can't imagine an intersection where
>>>> sighted pedestrians are expected to watch the traffic without any kind
>>>> of walk signal or light indicating when it was safe to cross.
>>>> That being said, I don't think this necessarily has to be our biggest
>>>> priority at this time. I also recognize that some blind travelers find
>>>> audible signals bothersome and I would support some way of making the
>>>> sound optional or implementing a tactile (i.e. vibrating) signal,
>>>> which would also benefit the deaf-blind.
> 
>>>> Arielle
> 
>>>> On 5/2/11, Jorge Paez<computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> I thought it wasn't supposed to be enforced till like 2012?
> 
> 
>>>>> On May 2, 2011, at 7:14 PM,<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
> 
>>>>>> George,
>>>>>> Actually the ACB seems as mad as ever; yes they won in the court; but
the
>>>>>> government has not produced accessible currency yet.
>>>>>> Some do not feel the decision will be enforced.
> 
>>>>>> Ashley
> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 6:57 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS
> 
>>>>>> I believe the national is officially against expanding the use of
APS.
> 
>>>>>> As far as accessible currency, didn't the ACB already close that case
in
>>>>>> court?
>>>>>> ACB V. US trasury 2009 or something like that?
> 
> 
>>>>>> On May 2, 2011, at 6:36 PM,<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
> 
>>>>>>> I am on the ACB list and as usual with controversial topics, they
are
>>>>>>> taking the Accessible pedestrian signal and accessible currency
>>>>>>> topics and really trashing the NFB and they don't know the real
positions
>>>>>>> and facts.
>>>>>>> They think NFB opposes both.
>>>>>>> I may not tell them as they will not listen, but what are the
positions?
>>>>>>> Nfb is not opposed to APS fully.
> 
>>>>>>> What is the national position? Any late resolutions?  Also, what do
you
>>>>>>> think and when have you found them helpful or not helpful?
>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like the APS at intersections where you have to
press the
>>>>>>> walk button as a pedestrian.  We cannot see the walk signal to know
when
>>>>>>> our time starts; you have to press the button in order to tell the
>>>>>>> computer that you are a pedestrian and need a walk phase to cross
the
>>>>>>> street.  I think these are called actuated signals.  These streets
favor
>>>>>>> drivers, not pedestrians; the busier streets get more traffic time.
That
>>>>>>> change of the signal is activated by a computer.
> 
>>>>>>> At fixed time streets, those streets with a set time to cross,
without a
>>>>>>> button are easier IMO and you got sufficient traffic cues to hear to
>>>>>>> cross.
>>>>>>> I also think some streets are more complex now a days with more turn
>>>>>>> lanes and islands, and a accessible signal would be great.  Some
signals
>>>>>>> even talk to you and count down the time left in the walk interval.
> 
>>>>>>> So I guess I see APS as a benefit  when you have insufficient
traffic
>>>>>>> cues to cross the street.  I've tried to learn how to cross T
streets,
>>>>>>> and those are confusing too; maybe the APS would help there too.  No
>>>>>>> parallel traffic on T-shaped streets.
> 
>>>>>>> Look forward to your thoughts; I know NFB modified their position on
APS,
>>>>>>> so I'm not sure what it is now.  I certainly don't want them
everywhere,
>>>>>>> but in several cases with complex traffic patterns I can see their
use.
> 
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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