[nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS

Sat May 7 23:17:12 UTC 2011

I think it goes without saying that one shouldn't cross the street
unless they both hear a favorable sound from the APS and also don't
hear any perpendicular or turning traffic. There is one light with an
APS that I use here in Boulder and I always wait a few seconds after
the APS starts up to be sure nobody is running the light or making a
quick turn. Still get across with plenty of time to spare.
Arielle

On 5/7/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> One of the guys in our Agriculture and Equestrian Division who lives in San
> diego tells of an instance when a car pulled up to an intersection with an
> APS (there are quite a number in that city) and, rather than looking at the
> light, just listened for the APS.  He stepped on the gas and ran smackdab
> into a car broadside because the light wasn't in his favor. Turns out there
> was actually a bird that sounded like the APS and he thought it *was* the
> APS when, in fact, the APS hadn't sounded. (grin) I think the Ag and Eq
> division member's name is Fred chambers.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ignasi Cambra
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 1:39 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS
>
> I don't think people would get confused though... I mean sounds are
> different when they come out of a speaker... Well, in any case I hope they
> don't have any of those birds in Madrid cause if they do they must be
> learning lots of things these days :).
> On May 4, 2011, at 12:56 PM, Jedi wrote:
>
>> There's just one problem with that. I believe it's Australia. In fact, I'm
> sure it is. They have this bird called a lyrebird, and it has the ability to
> mimic the sounds it hears. So, if it hears this special bird song and mimics
> it, some blind person's life could be in danger if she or he doens't know
> how to read traffic. I've heard of other birds having a similar ability as
> the lyrebird. So, I'd vote for some other pleasant sound that's a little
> harder for wildlife to mimic such as a piano tune or something.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Original message:
>>> I just remembered that in Madrid they have an other interesting system:
> where APS make this rather pleasant sound which sounds just like a bird
> singing. It's actually not annoying, and they have them literally all over
> the city. At this point it's just a sound that one identifies with Madrid.
> The bird also sings differently depending on how much time you have left to
> cross etc. The first time I heard it I thought it was funny, but the truth
> is that it doesn't bother people and it does the job.
>>> On May 3, 2011, at 11:26 PM, Robert Spangler wrote:
>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>
>>>> I, personally, do not have a problem with APS so long as they are spaced
> far enough apart and aren't too bothersome to the public.  I also think that
> there should always be a button, in case those who find them annoying don't
> want to use them.  I don't have an issue with their presence at high-traffic
> intersections or complex crossings such as those mentioned by other members
> of the list; however, imagine having APS at every intersection in a downtown
> area?  That would be a nightmare for everyone!
>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Robby
>>>> On 5/2/2011 7:42 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ashley and all,
>>
>>>>> I don't know exactly what NFB's official position is at this point. I
>>>>> personally am a big fan of audible traffic signals, for a few reasons.
>>>>> First, as you pointed out, there are several kinds of intersections
>>>>> where the auditory cue to cross is rather subtle-such as
>>>>> T-intersections, those where the parallel street is generally quiet or
>>>>> those with leading turn arrows, where you have to listen for the
>>>>> turning traffic to stop before crossing. I know it is possible to
>>>>> reliably cross these kinds of intersections using traffic cues alone,
>>>>> but the potential for mistakes (both missing the cue to cross and
>>>>> inadvertently crossing at the wrong time) is substantial especially
>>>>> for those who have had insufficient training. Second, as far as I
>>>>> know, there is no reliable way to tell when your walk signal is about
>>>>> to end. So if you come up to an intersection and the light is in your
>>>>> favor, there's no way to tell whether you will have enough time to
>>>>> cross before the light changes. The only really safe way to handle
>>>>> this is to wait until the light turns red and then green again, which
>>>>> can be inconvenient. Trust me, I've gambled on these and tried to
>>>>> cross without enough time-the result is scary not to mention
>>>>> embarrassing. Finally, though I know this logic is not always popular,
>>>>> I do think that if the sighted are given a clear cue to cross the
>>>>> street and it is not an undue hardship to make that signal accessible
>>>>> to the blind, it should be done. I can't imagine an intersection where
>>>>> sighted pedestrians are expected to watch the traffic without any kind
>>>>> of walk signal or light indicating when it was safe to cross.
>>>>> That being said, I don't think this necessarily has to be our biggest
>>>>> priority at this time. I also recognize that some blind travelers find
>>>>> audible signals bothersome and I would support some way of making the
>>>>> sound optional or implementing a tactile (i.e. vibrating) signal,
>>>>> which would also benefit the deaf-blind.
>>
>>>>> Arielle
>>
>>>>> On 5/2/11, Jorge Paez<computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> I thought it wasn't supposed to be enforced till like 2012?
>>
>>
>>>>>> On May 2, 2011, at 7:14 PM,<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>> Actually the ACB seems as mad as ever; yes they won in the court; but
> the
>>>>>>> government has not produced accessible currency yet.
>>>>>>> Some do not feel the decision will be enforced.
>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 6:57 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] accessible pedestrian signals APS
>>
>>>>>>> I believe the national is officially against expanding the use of
> APS.
>>
>>>>>>> As far as accessible currency, didn't the ACB already close that case
> in
>>>>>>> court?
>>>>>>> ACB V. US trasury 2009 or something like that?
>>
>>
>>>>>>> On May 2, 2011, at 6:36 PM,<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>
>>>>>>>> I am on the ACB list and as usual with controversial topics, they
> are
>>>>>>>> taking the Accessible pedestrian signal and accessible currency
>>>>>>>> topics and really trashing the NFB and they don't know the real
> positions
>>>>>>>> and facts.
>>>>>>>> They think NFB opposes both.
>>>>>>>> I may not tell them as they will not listen, but what are the
> positions?
>>>>>>>> Nfb is not opposed to APS fully.
>>
>>>>>>>> What is the national position? Any late resolutions?  Also, what do
> you
>>>>>>>> think and when have you found them helpful or not helpful?
>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like the APS at intersections where you have to
> press the
>>>>>>>> walk button as a pedestrian.  We cannot see the walk signal to know
> when
>>>>>>>> our time starts; you have to press the button in order to tell the
>>>>>>>> computer that you are a pedestrian and need a walk phase to cross
> the
>>>>>>>> street.  I think these are called actuated signals.  These streets
> favor
>>>>>>>> drivers, not pedestrians; the busier streets get more traffic time.
> That
>>>>>>>> change of the signal is activated by a computer.
>>
>>>>>>>> At fixed time streets, those streets with a set time to cross,
> without a
>>>>>>>> button are easier IMO and you got sufficient traffic cues to hear to
>>>>>>>> cross.
>>>>>>>> I also think some streets are more complex now a days with more turn
>>>>>>>> lanes and islands, and a accessible signal would be great.  Some
> signals
>>>>>>>> even talk to you and count down the time left in the walk interval.
>>
>>>>>>>> So I guess I see APS as a benefit  when you have insufficient
> traffic
>>>>>>>> cues to cross the street.  I've tried to learn how to cross T
> streets,
>>>>>>>> and those are confusing too; maybe the APS would help there too.  No
>>>>>>>> parallel traffic on T-shaped streets.
>>
>>>>>>>> Look forward to your thoughts; I know NFB modified their position on
> APS,
>>>>>>>> so I'm not sure what it is now.  I certainly don't want them
> everywhere,
>>>>>>>> but in several cases with complex traffic patterns I can see their
> use.
>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
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-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org