[nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy College

Mon May 9 10:20:52 UTC 2011

I think many times the problem is that we literally want to consider ourselves equal to the sighted in every way. I think it's obvious that as blind people we do pretty much everything we need to do with more or less training. But if you ask me, I'm not doing any of those things because I want to be equal with anybody else. I do what I do because I need to do it, and if I need to learn some blindness-specific techniques to accomplish something I will learn them because it's good for me. In most cases, successful blind people are equal to successful sighted people in terms of how competent they are at what they do, in terms of their skills etc. But there are some facts which are undeniable: for example, blind people are not able to drive a car independently to go to work every day. We don't know what will happen in the future, but today, this is a fact. Does this make us inferior to the sighted? Of course it doesn't, because we can find alternative ways of getting to places. But are we equal to the sighted in terms of being able to travel to places independently? I think we are not and, if you ask me, it's not such a huge drama to think about it in this way.
I'm not saying that blind people are worse than sighted people in any way, I'm just saying that in a world created mostly for sighted people, being blind has some disadvantages which cannot be mitigated with training and/or opportunity. Fortunately enough, those disadvantages are really not too bad after all, and blind people can be, in most ways, just like anyone else.
Is it really so hard to accept that there are a few things out there which really cannot be done without sight? As blind people, we of course need to find ways to do those things in the future if technology can help, but at the same time we need to be realistic.
I do believe that some things which we consider impossible right now will be possible in the future, but I don't see the point of saying that we are equal to the sighted in every possible way. I don't mind accepting that there are a few things that I can't do as a blind person, because even if I tell myself that I can do them if I want to, I still won't be able to do them. If at some point in the future I see that I actually have a practical and realistic way of doing those things, then I will tell myself that I can do them.
On May 8, 2011, at 5:04 PM, Jedi wrote:

> Kirt,
> 
> I think that if we decide to conclude that we will never be truly equal even with training based on the setbacks we experience, we've basically doomed ourselves to a kind of learned helplessness. Instead, I'd rather focus my energy on the intrensic value of blind people in society and our intrensic equality with the sighted because that's the philosophy that propels me to find solutions to the setbacks we do face and to gather the necessary cooperation from both the blind and the sighted to make them work. I think that's what Jacobus tenbroek did when he got the NFB started. Seems how it worked for him and the loads of leaders that have come after, I think I'll repeat this successful action.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
> 
> Original message:
>> Jedi,
>> (there are a lot of people I  could reply to but I want to talk to
>> Jedi right now),
>>  Fair enough-there are certainly other disabilities, both personal or
>> circumstancial, that are as limiting as blindness is without
>> training-what does that have to do with blindness making us unable to
>> perform on an equal level as the rest of the world without training
>> and opportunity?  I mean, sure there are plenty of other limiting
>> factors in life, what does that have to do with blindness being or not
>> being a limiting factor?
>>  Josh-helpless is bad.  I think we all agree on that here.  But I
>> still say we're not equal with the sighted world, in terms of
>> capability, without propper training.  And, I'd submit, even with
>> propper training, blindness is stil a disability and, as such, will
>> always cause problems here and there although they would be more
>> inconveniences than drastic debilitating issues.
>>  Just my thoughts,
>> Kirt
> 
>> On 5/7/11, Josh Gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey, can you explain that? I find it interesting.  Your thought,
>>> I mean.  Feel free to write offlist if you want.
> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 7 May 2011 20:19:57 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy
>>> College
> 
>>> Or perhaps whatever god you believe in knows you can't write your
>>> insights
>>> down so, taking a page from the Devil, inspires all sorts of
>>> universally
>>> true and enlightening insights a la Firmat's Theorem that will
>>> vanish into
>>> thin air in the morning.  (grin)
> 
>>> Mike
> 
> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Josh Gregory
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:09 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy
>>> College
> 
>>> Um...  maybe Cause your mind is more relaxed? You don't have to
>>> think about
>>> much so you can think more clearly? IDK.  Just my late-night
>>> thoughts...
>>> Josh
> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 7 May 2011 20:06:13 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy
>>> College
> 
>>> Lol, yes.  Why is it that everything comes to you when you are in
>>> bed?
> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 7:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] An Article about another Student at Myy
>>> College
> 
> 
>>> Yeah, I'd say so.  But I was thinking a while ago and realized
>>> that there
>>> are loads of cases where training is required in order to
>>> function, not
>>> just blindness.  I can't remember what specific examples I
>>> thought of at
>>> the time, but I'm sure they'll hit me at some God-forsaken hour
>>> of the
>>> night.
> 
>>> Respectfully,
>>> JEdi
> 
>>> Original message:
>>> Jedi,
>>>   Maybe it'll makemore sense if I say it this way.  I wasn't
>>> refering
>>> to a person's intrinsic value.  I should've said we can't
>>> compete on
>>> an equal level by default.  I'm going to invert a statement
>>> you've
>>> heard a billion times.  Without propper training and
>>> opportunity,
>>> blindness is a great deal more than a mere nuisence, and is, in
>>> fact,
>>> a very significant limitation.  Would you agree?
>>>   Best regards,
>>> Kirt
> 
>>> On 5/7/11, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think I know him too.  We got our guide dogs at the same time
>>> back in
>>> 2004.
>>> I remember Matt really loved baseball at the time, and he was
>>> always
>>> playing
>>> outside with his dad.  I couldn't really speak English at the
>>> time and we
>>> were very young, so I don't think we got to talk much.
>>> Actually, when
>>> they
>>> were matching dogs with owners he got assigned my current guide
>>> dog, but
>>> Matt walked too slow for the dog, or maybe it was the dog
>>> walking too
>>> fast
>>> :).  But the fact is that I ended up with that dog, which is
>>> still
>>> working
>>> wonderfully! I was always walking a little faster than the dog
>>> they
>>> assigned
>>> me at first, so it worked out very well.  I guess that's the
>>> advantage of
>>> instructors having a huge pool of trained dogs to choose from
>>> for each
>>> person.
> 
>>> IC
>>> On May 6, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Jedi wrote:
> 
>>> I believe Matt Cooper participated in Youth Slam 2007.  I met
>>> him and
>>> was
>>> quite impressed with him just because he was a down-to-earth
>>> kind of
>>> guy
>>> who didn't toot his own horn to much.  He was an all-around good
>>> kid.
> 
>>> I really liked the title the school gives to its DSS office.  It
>>> makes
>>> so
>>> much sense and isn't euphemistic at all.  "Office for Accessible
>>> Education." I think I might suggest that to my school.
> 
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi
> 
>>> Original message:
>>> What do you guys think of this?
>>> http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/05/04/seeing-it-through/
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