[nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs

Thu May 12 04:07:28 UTC 2011

Kirt:

Far be it from me to say that a person can't succeed without training in a
NFB center. I am not one of those who say "it's a NFB center or nothing!". I
sometimes think there's a bit too much of that in our outfit. To some
degree, this is understandable; if one has a product that works superbly,
one wishes to spread the Gospel. However, I think this does a disservice to
those of us who did *not* attend a NFB-inspired training center, who *did*
receive good training elsewhere and who have been and are still living
normal, fulfilled lives. WE don't want to completely fall into the trap of
"my way or no way".

That said, however, I would ask that you consider the following: how do you
*know* that your skills will naturally improve (both O&M and daily living
skills)? And how do you know that your confidence will increase simply by
living your life? I admit that it's probably more likely than not that your
skills and confidence will increase whether you go to a NFB center or not.
However, I submit that you'll have nothing to measure this by; there will be
no peers to encourage you, to kick you in the posterior when you need it and
to serve as a yardstick by which you can truly judge your progress. And
there may be skill deficiencies you haven't noticed yet that could be
remedied at a NFB center.

In other words, without NFB center training (or training at any other
halfway decent orientation and training center, for that matter), you'll be
strictly on your own. That may be what you want. God knows I might not have
lasted more than a day at the old Iowa Commission for the Blind center under
Dr. Jernigan even though I would have believed in the training; when I was
your age, I was quite maverick. But would I not have been almost
insufferably arrogant? I mean, when Spiro T. Agnew called college students
"an effete corps of impudent snobs" in around 1970, I knew he was looking
straight at me and I loved it! But was such arrogance wise?

You might well be missing out on some valuable experiences -- even in the
skills you think you're good at, you can always learn *something* in
organized training you might not have thought of otherwise.

And why are you in such an all-fired hurry? I can tell you this: the
likelihood is *very* high that if you eschew training now, you'll never take
it. Adult life and responsibilities have an insidious way of creeping up on
you and taking all your time. So for practical purposes, your choice is not
to finish college and *then* take training but rather to finish college and
immediately enter the world of work (after all, you'll have student loans to
pay off) with little prospect that you'll ever be able to carve out the time
to get NFB center training in the future,

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 7:59 PM
To: Antonio Guimaraes; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs

To all,
  Very good points-I know I probably am better off getting a dog after
training.  And I'm really considering it-the more I think about it, the more
I'm leaning towards that option.  But here's the thing.  Due to rehab
bureaucracy and slowness (namely, taking a month to even get in touch with
me to schedule an appointment...but let's  not go there), It's pretty much
not possible for me to do training on the original time table I wanted to.
And, the more I think about it, the more I'm seeing a lot of cons to
training (although I'm still probably going to do it).  In a lot of areas
the center spends a lot of time on, my skills are superb.  Those that need
work are improving at a very good clip already-I'm already independent
enough to do pretty much whatever I want to do, whenever I want to do it,
without too much trouble.  My o&m isn't great, but it's good and getting
better fast.
My daily living isn't all that good but it's improving at a rapid clip as
well because I'm having to figure out stuff on my own and I'm making tones
of progress there.
  So my question is this...and let's drop talking about a dog for a minute
because I don't know what to do about that just yet.  While training would
certainly be beneficial, I've come to realize my biggest hinderence is a
lack of confidence rather than a lack of skill-I've been doing more o&m and
cooking recently, and my skills are a lot better than I thought they were.
While I'm not denying training would give me the confidence I'd need-would I
gain that confidence working on the skills I already have in a real-world
environment?
(namely college)  I mean-would it be a better use of my time to go to
training and re-learn a lot of what I already know and gain confidence, or
would I be better served spending those 6-9 months in a college classroom,
in my own apartment, practicing and improving the considerable skills I
already have and gaining confidence that way?  I honestly don't know.  I'm
not denying I need serious improvement in some areas (and I could improve
even on the skills I excell at), but it's not as if I'm starting from
scratch-and I honestly feel like I know enough to learn anything else I need
to know with practice.  On the one hand, training would improve those skills
faster than college would-I'd certainly come out of it more efficient and
empowered.  On the other hand-I'm already quite efficient and empowered
already, and I know my efficiency and empowerment will improve with time so
long as I keep working at it.  Thoughts, anyone?  Would I gain more by
keeping up with my college education, or going to a center?  I'm really not
sure anymore.
  Warmest regards,
Kirt

On 5/11/11, Antonio Guimaraes <freethaught at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kirt,
>
> You're probably better off geting a guide dog after your training at CCB.
>
> While CCB is known for being the most dog-friendly of NFB training 
> centers, you still spend most of your day without your guide, and 
> attend class travel the building and such with your long cane.
>
> You're free to leave the the training grounds with your guide dog in 
> toe, and will use the dog on your activities outside the formal training
setting.
>
> The time you spend away from your dog is time your dog is just sitting 
> with another instructor, not bonding with you, unlearning good 
> behavior, and forgetting its place in the pack of two.
>
> Other people, including the dog sitter for the day take your place as 
> the alfa dog, and this does nothing for your team.
>
> this is just how I see the picture. I have been at CCB long enough, 
> but others may have a different story.
>
> You'd need only ask Julie Deeden about the policies and she'll tell 
> you all about them. No dogs durring the training day. Dog stays with 
> someone else, and not with handler, and such.
>
> So get some good training under your belt, then interview and train 
> with a dog after, I say. You'll have superb cane travel skills, and 
> will be ready to take on dog travel with renewed confidence.
>
> Best,
>
> Antonio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs
>
>
>> Amy, Nicole and all,
>>  If I get a dog (which is a huge if), I'd wait at least a couple 
>> months before going to a training center.  I'm guessing me and my new 
>> friend would need some time to really get to know each other-time 
>> which would probably be in short supply at a training center.  I do, 
>> however, have a question which is probably silly.  When attending a 
>> center, are you under contract to use a straight cane whenever you 
>> travel anywhere-whether in class time or just on your own time?  I 
>> mean...let's say me and my dog want to go see a friend in Denver over 
>> the weekend (I have a few friends, hard to believe.  :)).  Would 
>> there be any official policy against me bringing a folding cane along 
>> for the trip, in the event I'd need it?  I'd do a straight cane 
>> but...you know, those don't really fit in backpacks very well.  Would 
>> anyone care if I did that, on my own time?  From what I understand, 
>> you guys'll probably say that's a really dumb question and of course 
>> that would be fine.  But my experience with life has told me to 
>> always make sure I know what's going on before I get in to it.
>>  Warmest regards,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 5/8/11, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> hello kurt,
>>>
>>> i see that you want to attend ccb which is awesome! yes, you can 
>>> bring your guide dog to the ccb but, you will have to use a cane for 
>>> some of your activities oncluding travel class. i hope this is 
>>> helpful to you and, hopefully others here will chime in with their 
>>> comments and suggestions to this topic.
>>>
>>> take care and good luck in coming to ccb.
>>>
>>>
>>> hugs,
>>> amy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sun, 08 May 2011 21:22:10 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs
>>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>   I'm thinking of attending the CCB sometime soon.  I'm also going 
>>> to try out using a guide dog and, if I find it beneficial, will 
>>> probably go through the process of getting one.  So my question is 
>>> this.  Is it ok to bring a guide dog to an NFB training center?  I 
>>> mean, I know that during my official day-time lessons I'd just need 
>>> to use a cane-and I'm fine with that.  I think the worst thing I 
>>> could do, if I get a guide dog, is let my cane skills slip.  But 
>>> would there be any problems, aside from logistics I'd have to work 
>>> out, with bringing a guide dog to a training center?  Anyone done it?
>>>   Warmest regards,
>>> Kirt
>>>
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