[nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs

Sat May 14 00:59:19 UTC 2011

Ultimately, I think it's important to  consider the rules of
engagement here and work  with or not with them if that's how you
feel.   i will say, for the sake of discussion that many people go
into a training center environment with the idea that they know all of
what they need to know in a certain area, or in the majority of the
core  areas of instruction. To some this may or may not be true, but
I doubt  that even experts stop learning.   I've always looked at  the
training that our three centers provide as essential tools from which
we can  build the foundation of our confidence.  It is true that we
won't remember every single thing that  we are taught, but we will
learn that we can feel more comfortable with a slate, or that the
stove is a wonderful tool, if used safely, that power tools are things
that blind people can use, you can conduct large research tasks on the
computer using a screen reader, or take on that scary intersection
using  your alternitive techniques and a cane.
  I don't  think this means that you (not kirt, but in general) should
be discouraged from taking a guide to a center, but to be aware of
what that may mean for you both as a team, and your development as a
confident blind person (this also impacts you both as a team).
   We in the National Federation of the Blind  believe that  the
successful blind person has the skills and confidence in Home
management/activities of daily living, access technology, Braille
reading and writing (both with the brailler and the slate), and Cane
travel.  The belief shared at  our three centers is that emurtion into
 a program that teaches these skills utilizing non-visual techniques
will  yield the  optimum outcome for the consumer.
 Have people  gained these skills and confidence, and the positive
philosiphy of blindness without  having attended  an NFB center? sure
they have, and I encourage one to consider those avanues as well as
LCB, CCB or BLIND inc.
 just some thoughts.
  Best,
  Darian

On 5/12/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Ignaci:
>
> There are a number of things involving this thread that are being left
> unsaid. One of them is that we view our NFB-oriented training centers not
> merely as facilities for blindness skills training but,rather, as attitude
> factories. We believe that society's mistaken notions and erroneous
> stereotypes about the blind are so pervasive that we, the blind, can't help
> but buy into them, at least to some extent. If one goes to a NFB center
> where one is surrounded by high expectations, encouragement and constant
> emphasis on stretching oneself to do things one believes he/she cannot do so
> that one is de-programmed from society's discount of the blind, one is in a
> far better position both to get the full benefit of skills training and to
> go out and grab the world by the horns and insist upon first-class treatment
> -- not because one deserves to have it because of some notion of fairness
> but because one *expects* it as a matter of belief and right.
>
> Call this brain-washing if you wish; NFB has been accused of this many times
> in the past. But we've found that out of our attitude factories come
> well-adjusted blind persons who are ready and eager to take their places in
> society willing to exercise both the rights and the responsibilities of
> citizenship.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ignasi Cambra
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 3:32 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs
>
> Kirt,
> In my personal opinion, I feel as though you would be better off just
> staying in college. If things are working well for you and you think you're
> improving, I don't see why you would want to postpone everything 9 months. I
> never received any formal training other than what I learned from my sighted
> parents while I was growing up, and some o&m instruction from a teacher here
> in Spain when I was pretty young. I was able to get a guide dog really early
> and at this point O&M is not a problem for me. Even though I'm aware that my
> skills in other things such as cooking are not the best, I would not spend 9
> months somewhere just to learn those things. There are probably faster ways
> of getting it done, and I don't feel as though I would benefit enough from a
> full 9 month program.
> What I would consider though would be to spend a month or so at a training
> center so that I can get better at certain things. I don't even know if
> that's possible, but whenever I have time and I don't have any concerts to
> play in a couple of months I will try to see what options I have.
> Many times I feel like blindness skills are more about having common sense
> than anything else. After all, O&M, daily living etc are not tremendously
> complicated things which cannot be mastered with experience and by living in
> the real world :).
> Again these are just my opinions and everyone will probably have different
> ideas. In any case, I find this to be an interesting subject.
>
> IC
> On May 11, 2011, at 10:58 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
>> To all,
>>  Very good points-I know I probably am better off getting a dog after
>> training.  And I'm really considering it-the more I think about it,
>> the more I'm leaning towards that option.  But here's the thing.  Due
>> to rehab bureaucracy and slowness (namely, taking a month to even get
>> in touch with me to schedule an appointment...but let's  not go
>> there), It's pretty much not possible for me to do training on the
>> original time table I wanted to.  And, the more I think about it, the
>> more I'm seeing a lot of cons to training (although I'm still probably
>> going to do it).  In a lot of areas the center spends a lot of time
>> on, my skills are superb.  Those that need work are improving at a
>> very good clip already-I'm already independent enough to do pretty
>> much whatever I want to do, whenever I want to do it, without too much
>> trouble.  My o&m isn't great, but it's good and getting better fast.
>> My daily living isn't all that good but it's improving at a rapid clip
>> as well because I'm having to figure out stuff on my own and I'm
>> making tones of progress there.
>>  So my question is this...and let's drop talking about a dog for a
>> minute because I don't know what to do about that just yet.  While
>> training would certainly be beneficial, I've come to realize my
>> biggest hinderence is a lack of confidence rather than a lack of
>> skill-I've been doing more o&m and cooking recently, and my skills are
>> a lot better than I thought they were.  While I'm not denying training
>> would give me the confidence I'd need-would I gain that confidence
>> working on the skills I already have in a real-world environment?
>> (namely college)  I mean-would it be a better use of my time to go to
>> training and re-learn a lot of what I already know and gain
>> confidence, or would I be better served spending those 6-9 months in a
>> college classroom, in my own apartment, practicing and improving the
>> considerable skills I already have and gaining confidence that way?  I
>> honestly don't know.  I'm not denying I need serious improvement in
>> some areas (and I could improve even on the skills I excell at), but
>> it's not as if I'm starting from scratch-and I honestly feel like I
>> know enough to learn anything else I need to know with practice.  On
>> the one hand, training would improve those skills faster than college
>> would-I'd certainly come out of it more efficient and empowered.  On
>> the other hand-I'm already quite efficient and empowered already, and
>> I know my efficiency and empowerment will improve with time so long as
>> I keep working at it.  Thoughts, anyone?  Would I gain more by keeping
>> up with my college education, or going to a center?  I'm really not
>> sure anymore.
>>  Warmest regards,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 5/11/11, Antonio Guimaraes <freethaught at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Kirt,
>>>
>>> You're probably better off geting a guide dog after your training at CCB.
>>>
>>> While CCB is known for being the most dog-friendly of NFB training
> centers,
>>> you still spend most of your day without your guide, and attend class
> travel
>>> the building and such with your long cane.
>>>
>>> You're free to leave the the training grounds with your guide dog in toe,
>>> and will use the dog on your activities outside the formal training
> setting.
>>>
>>> The time you spend away from your dog is time your dog is just sitting
> with
>>> another instructor, not bonding with you, unlearning good behavior, and
>>> forgetting its place in the pack of two.
>>>
>>> Other people, including the dog sitter for the day take your place as the
>>> alfa dog, and this does nothing for your team.
>>>
>>> this is just how I see the picture. I have been at CCB long enough, but
>>> others may have a different story.
>>>
>>> You'd need only ask Julie Deeden about the policies and she'll tell you
> all
>>> about them. No dogs durring the training day. Dog stays with someone
> else,
>>> and not with handler, and such.
>>>
>>> So get some good training under your belt, then interview and train with
> a
>>> dog after, I say. You'll have superb cane travel skills, and will be
> ready
>>> to take on dog travel with renewed confidence.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 6:05 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs
>>>
>>>
>>>> Amy, Nicole and all,
>>>> If I get a dog (which is a huge if), I'd wait at least a couple
>>>> months before going to a training center.  I'm guessing me and my new
>>>> friend would need some time to really get to know each other-time
>>>> which would probably be in short supply at a training center.  I do,
>>>> however, have a question which is probably silly.  When attending a
>>>> center, are you under contract to use a straight cane whenever you
>>>> travel anywhere-whether in class time or just on your own time?  I
>>>> mean...let's say me and my dog want to go see a friend in Denver over
>>>> the weekend (I have a few friends, hard to believe.  :)).  Would there
>>>> be any official policy against me bringing a folding cane along for
>>>> the trip, in the event I'd need it?  I'd do a straight cane but...you
>>>> know, those don't really fit in backpacks very well.  Would anyone
>>>> care if I did that, on my own time?  From what I understand, you
>>>> guys'll probably say that's a really dumb question and of course that
>>>> would be fine.  But my experience with life has told me to always make
>>>> sure I know what's going on before I get in to it.
>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 5/8/11, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> hello kurt,
>>>>>
>>>>> i see that you want to attend ccb which is awesome! yes, you can bring
>>>>> your
>>>>> guide dog to the ccb but, you will have to use a cane for some of your
>>>>> activities oncluding travel class. i hope this is helpful to you and,
>>>>> hopefully others here will chime in with their comments and suggestions
>>>>> to
>>>>> this topic.
>>>>>
>>>>> take care and good luck in coming to ccb.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> hugs,
>>>>> amy
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sun, 08 May 2011 21:22:10 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] NFB training centers and guide dogs
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>  I'm thinking of attending the CCB sometime soon.  I'm also going to
>>>>> try out using a guide dog and, if I find it beneficial, will probably
>>>>> go through the process of getting one.  So my question is this.  Is it
>>>>> ok to bring a guide dog to an NFB training center?  I mean, I know
>>>>> that during my official day-time lessons I'd just need to use a
>>>>> cane-and I'm fine with that.  I think the worst thing I could do, if I
>>>>> get a guide dog, is let my cane skills slip.  But would there be any
>>>>> problems, aside from logistics I'd have to work out, with bringing a
>>>>> guide dog to a training center?  Anyone done it?
>>>>>  Warmest regards,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
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-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace

"The purpose of life is a life of purpose.

— Robert Byrne