[nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And Bookshare

Kirt Manwaring kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Wed May 25 21:21:35 UTC 2011


Kevin,
  There are some textbooks for which bookshare isn't all that
practical.  For instance, I took a logic class last semester where
they used all sorts of symbols that aren't in any braille code...I
kind of had to make my own personal logic-braille.  (which I mostly
used on paper because there just weren't symbols in the braille code
for what I needed)  Bookshare couldn't handle those kinds of books.
>From my understanding, Mike was talking about the technical aspect
more than the legal aspect.  (i.e, rendering books like my logic book
accessible in electronic braille).  Mike, am I understanding you
wrong?
  Best,
Kirt

On 5/25/11, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com> wrote:
> I actually don't think it would take any new laws.
> I think the department of education could write the regulations for this
> based on existing law.
> The federal government is great and producing basketful's of paper
> regulations.
> The key is that the disability funding has a major share that comes from the
> federal government.
> So if the department of education and the other agencies combined there
> efforts around funding and states that disability services ors need to
> provide to a central location the title and contents of any books that they
> need to convert.
> The department of education doesn't need to build another database or
> storage structure because they already fund a major part of BookShare.
> -Kevin
>
>
> On May 25, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>
>> Kevin: How would such a law be implemented in the case of technical
>> materials? Seems to me we have a way to go before imposing such strictures
>> on DSS departments, much as these would be desirable in the abstract.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>> sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On May 25, 2011, at 13:39, Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Where we could exude some real leverage as an organization would be to
>>> work to have the U.S. department of Education require that any University
>>> or School that receives federal funding for any aspect of disability
>>> services upload a quality copy of any book that the institution's DS
>>> department creates to BookShare.
>>> Remember that initially BookShare was a sharing point where books would
>>> be scanned and uploaded by volunteers.
>>> The infrastructure seems be well developed for central storage and
>>> cataloging of accessible books.
>>> Since the U.S. Department Of Education is providing quite a bit of
>>> funding to BookShare and the federal government is providing huge funding
>>> to disability services this process if mandated by the federal government
>>> could take all the individual DS efforts across institutions and insure
>>> that there is a central catalog for books that have been converted as
>>> well as the actual book itself.
>>>
>>> Furthermore if institutions were required to only adopt books that are
>>> available in accessible format or loose there federal disability funding
>>> then the publishers would be lining up to put there books on BookShare.
>>> I would certainly rather have BookShare manage the content and provide a
>>> common format that we can use across the various devices and accessible
>>> software apps then have to hunt all over the internet for it and pray
>>> that I can find an accessible version.
>>>
>>> We are a long way from accessible book readers chiefly because there is
>>> not enough teeth in the laws and regulations to force the momentum to
>>> create accessible material.
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>> On May 25, 2011, at 3:23 PM, <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kirt,
>>>> I think you miss the point. We still need an accessible library of books
>>>> via NLS or  bookshare.
>>>> Sighted people can borrow books at the library or buy them used or cheap
>>>> online. Anyone else can buy a paperbook that is very cheap.  Yes novels
>>>> are easily rendered accessible.  But I don't think many ebook readers
>>>> are accessible.
>>>> Have you forgotten the protest against Amozon kindle because they
>>>> silenced speech?
>>>> I heard that the Barnes & Nobel ebook reader is not accessible. And as a
>>>> personal example, my library has ebooks too.
>>>> But at Nova, Ashley can't use them because they're pdf files. Jaws was
>>>> only reading the title, not the entire page!
>>>> Now this is unequal access. I say keep NLS and Learning Ally. If ebook
>>>> readers were actually accessible, then we can think about eliminating
>>>> what you call preferential treatment.
>>>> As it stands now, I got to pay, yes pay a reader, to read the ebooks and
>>>> myriad of paper sources because those are not accessible to me.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Kirt Manwaring
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 3:24 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>> Bookshare
>>>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>> One other thing I didn't catch from your last email.  If access to
>>>> novels from mainstream sources is pretty straightforward, why do we
>>>> still insist on getting these novels from bookshare and learning ally
>>>> for free?  I'd personally like it if NLS implimented some sort of
>>>> delete timer in to their downloads like lots of other digital ebook
>>>> lending libraries do.  (overdrive anyone?)  But if we can read our
>>>> novels in braille through ibooks or blio, where we can buy them
>>>> honestly, why do we still demand getting these novels from bookshare
>>>> or learning ally for free?  Sounds like preferential treatment to me,
>>>> at least with books that aren't textbooks.
>>>> Warmly,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 5/25/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Steve,
>>>>> Fair enough.  I was a bit too bold and am probably a bit too
>>>>> optomistic-I'll defer to you on that front.  And scientific/math
>>>>> notation has always been a problem with electronic braille, hasn't it?
>>>>> I think that's one area where paper braille, for all its annoyances,
>>>>> will probably always be superior, barring some crazy new inovation
>>>>> making braille displays bigger and representing tactile graphics with
>>>>> the braille pins or something.  It'll need to be that drastic, I
>>>>> think, to make rendering of graphics in refreshable braille even
>>>>> comparable to paper braille with embossers and so forth...so we'll
>>>>> probably be grappling with that issue for a long time, regardless of
>>>>> what happens to bookshare.  I certainly wouldn't trust a math or
>>>>> science textbook from bookshare-they've had problems enough with
>>>>> literary braille.
>>>>> I see your point about brand names.  But when one of those brands is
>>>>> owned and operated by the NFB, I feel a lot more comfortable about
>>>>> that brand providing braille support.  It's not a guarantee of course
>>>>> (I've honestly been a bit disappointed with the blio so far) but it
>>>>> makes me feel pretty comfortable that blio will get better and braille
>>>>> access will improve.  I hope the good people at KNFB don't
>>>>> disappoint-the NFB's set a pretty good precedent for accessibility so
>>>>> far and it'd be a shame if Blio doesn't hit the mark.
>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/25/11, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I see it, we need to get access to e-books, and there are some
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> happening that hold great promise.  I think that giving us access to a
>>>>>> novel, for
>>>>>> example, is probably pretty straight-forward in most cases.  We need
>>>>>> access
>>>>>> to E-texts to even have a chance at accessing more mainstream titles,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> not suggesting that this isn't important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a lot up in the air yet with respect to scientific and math
>>>>>> notation and how information in drawings should be conveyed.  This may
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> be that
>>>>>> important for leisure reading, but it is very important in textbooks.
>>>>>> Perhaps it will evolve that organizations such as Learning Ally will
>>>>>> concentrate on making
>>>>>> the various drawings accessible.  They might then create a final
>>>>>> product
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> merging their special representation of drawings with the text that is
>>>>>> already
>>>>>> available.  I think we may have a harder time forcing publishers to
>>>>>> create
>>>>>> accessible drawings because that goes a bit further than just taking
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same text
>>>>>> and making it available in another format.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My second reason for hanging back on this is that all of the tools you
>>>>>> name
>>>>>> are brand names, products of a specific company.  We don't know what
>>>>>> sort
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> availability of accessible texts will be maintained over time.  The
>>>>>> industry
>>>>>> is new, and we don't know a lot yet about consistency.  What if some
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> way
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> displaying text catches on in five years and the approach used is hard
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> make accessible.  My point isn't that there isn't reason to have some
>>>>>> hope,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> rather that we need to base those services we decide we no longer need
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> what is there now and not on what we think will be the case
>>>>>> eventually.
>>>>>> In
>>>>>> 1997 or so, Adobe made a committment, due in part to pressure, to make
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> Acrobat Reader accessible.  Even with their efforts, our governor
>>>>>> yesterday
>>>>>> released statements using PDF documents that were not accessible.  I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> never have thought in 1997 that there would still be inaccessible
>>>>>> PDF's
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> 2011.  We justneed to be cautious when predicting where technology
>>>>>> goes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 25 May 2011 11:42:15 -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve and Mike,
>>>>>>> You're the technology people here, so I won't argue this too hard.
>>>>>>> But are my statements about braille access to textbooks premature?
>>>>>>> Isn't that kind of a huge reason why we're making the Blio reader and
>>>>>>> working with Amazon on their Kindel?  Are you saying that an ebook
>>>>>>> reader, produced in part by the NFB, which is free, will not become
>>>>>>> more accessible and will not support braille access?  That seems a
>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>> silly to me.  What about websites like coursesmart?  You guys know
>>>>>>> more about this than I do but it seems to me that we're moving fast
>>>>>>> towards access to mainstream books in braille.
>>>>>>> Steve, I'd submit that we'd need the expensive technology to read
>>>>>>> electronic braille, with or without bookshare.  If we want to read a
>>>>>>> bookshare file in electronic braille, we need one of those expensive
>>>>>>> braille displays or notetakers-we'd need the exact same technology
>>>>>>> setup to read a mainstream braille book through Blio or coursesmart
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> (I still think before too long) the Kindel.  We'd just have to pay
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same price for our books the sighted have to pay-if we don't have the
>>>>>>> money, maybe that's an insentive to start working or, at the very
>>>>>>> least, better manage our precious SSI.
>>>>>>> Just my thoughts,
>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/25/11, Liz Bottner <liziswhatis at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> TO my knowledge, book publishers are actually partnering with
>>>>>>>> BookShare
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> make their books available and accessible. I do think that quality
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> BKS
>>>>>>>> books has improved over the years.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Liz Bottner
>>>>>>>> Guiding Eyes Graduate Council
>>>>>>>> GEB Voicemail:  800-942-0149 Ext. 2531
>>>>>>>> e-mail:
>>>>>>>> liziswhatis at hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> Visit my LiveJournal:
>>>>>>>> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter:
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/lizbot
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:20 AM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There really needs to be some entity that is REQUIRED to produce
>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>> textbooks.  That process is a bit different than the process need to
>>>>>>>> translate novels into braille.  I think it's great that more and
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>> are easily accessible with the new technology available, but it
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> foolish to assume that publishers are going to put accessibility
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> designing electronic files.  The NIMAC is the repository of
>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>> textbook files.  Textbook companies are required to make K-12
>>>>>>>> textbooks
>>>>>>>> accessible.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps there is a more streamlined way to get good braille in the
>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> blind students than using Bookshare but there needs to be a
>>>>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>>>> process for producing quality braille.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sally Thomas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Kirt Manwaring" <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ebook Accessibility/The Future of NLS And
>>>>>>>> Bookshare
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One more thing (I hate double posting, but I sure do it a lot),
>>>>>>>> Maybe I was being just a bit too bold-we're not quite to the point
>>>>>>>> where mainstream ebooks are as accessible as bookshare files or
>>>>>>>> RFB&D
>>>>>>>> audiobooks...but we're moving there fast.  I don't think it'll be
>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>> long until you can read a Kindle book or a Blio book on your
>>>>>>>> notetaker
>>>>>>>> or smart phone with braille display.  The technology's out there, it
>>>>>>>> just needs to be developed and put to use a little bit more-and that
>>>>>>>> trend's already started with Apple and Blio.  But it won't be too
>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>> until reading a mainstream ebook in braille, on any platform we use
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> read electronic braille now, will be as saemless and practical as
>>>>>>>> using bookshare.  When that happens (and it's certainly not far
>>>>>>>> off),
>>>>>>>> I suspect we'll have an interesting philosophical debate on our
>>>>>>>> hands...and you all better know where I'll stand after my last few
>>>>>>>> posts.  *grin*  And now, for me, I don't need bookshare anymore to
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> ebooks for free I should buy and I feel like Learning Ally books are
>>>>>>>> probably the same because of Audible (although audible's library
>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>> as extensive for textbooks), and I feel a little guilty every time I
>>>>>>>> download a learning ally book for free that I should buy, just like
>>>>>>>> every sighted person out there has to buy audiobooks instead of
>>>>>>>> getting them on a silver platter
>>>>>>>> I'm done now,
>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Julie,
>>>>>>>>> More and more sighted people are reading ebooks instead of going to
>>>>>>>>> libraries or buying them hardcopy.  The ability to read mainstream
>>>>>>>>> ebooks in braille, not just on apple devices but on computers and
>>>>>>>>> probably notetakers before too long, is expanding at a tremendous
>>>>>>>>> rate!  If we want to borrow a hardcopy book, we should use a
>>>>>>>>> library
>>>>>>>>> like everyone else does.  If we want to buy a hard copy braille
>>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>>> we should use a book store (ala NBP), just like sighted people have
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> buy hardcopy books if they want to keep them.  Maybe it's a
>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>> idea to see if government can subsidize NBP and similar bookstores
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> we have to pay the same price as everyone else.  But if we want to
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> an ebook to keep, we should have to buy it.  Just like everyone
>>>>>>>>> else.
>>>>>>>>> And the technology to read ebooks in braille (not just on apple
>>>>>>>>> devices, but with a braille display and a computer) is already here
>>>>>>>>> and expanding fast!  Can somebody tell me why, if we want to be
>>>>>>>>> treated equally, we're clinging to free ebooks when we have options
>>>>>>>>> (again, not just apple!), to buy our ebooks just like everyone else
>>>>>>>>> and read them with braille displays?  If that's not hippocricy, I
>>>>>>>>> honestly don't know what is.
>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to insult anyone, offend anyone, or hurt anyone's
>>>>>>>>> feelings.  But I obviously feel pretty strongly about this-please
>>>>>>>>> don't take my passion as a personal attack.
>>>>>>>>> With respect,
>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Well said.  I agree with those statements.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking about it that way as well.  What do sighted people
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> when they want a new book?  They go to the public library, or they
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> to Borders or some other book store.  Sometimes they go on Amazon
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> order hard copy books.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We, however, do not get hard copy braille books very easily.  No,
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> many books are "made" (I mean specifically made, not just embossed
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> the common people) for distribution.  But we need equal access to
>>>>>>>>>> books, so we get all these different formats in which we can get
>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think he is confused about the term equal access.  It doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>> that *everyone* needs to buy an iPad or whatever and download
>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>> just like the sighted people do.  It means that we can have the
>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>> choices as the sighted people.  Equal access, equal choices.  If
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> don't want to read our books on an Apple device, we shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>> forced to, and if we want to read all our books on iPhones, then
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is our choice as well, but we shouldn't have choices taken away
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> us in the guise of equal access.  Are all sighted people going to
>>>>>>>>>> switch over to reading their books on their Apple divices?  No.
>>>>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>>>>> us.  That just doesn't seem right to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure I'm completely crazy in saying all these random things,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> find this is my opinion.  Sorry for subjecting you to my rambles.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Brice Smith <brice.smith319 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Besides the undercurrent of Apple snobbery here ("It seems to me,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> many others who have embraced the integrated access of Apple
>>>>>>>>>>> products,
>>>>>>>>>>> that some quarters of the visually impaired community desire
>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>> access without equal responsibility,) I have one MAJOR,
>>>>>>>>>>> fundamental
>>>>>>>>>>> problem with this article:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ":
>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they simply
>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions. First, what of
>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted individuals who are in similar circumstances? The
>>>>>>>>>>> unemployment rate continues at high levels, and I'm sure many of
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> who are currently facing hard times would love a treasure trove
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> free books at their fingertips. Why don't we open BookShare.org
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> NLS
>>>>>>>>>>> up to these unfortunates?"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sighted individuals do have a treasure trove of free books at
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> disposal. It's called the public library, Josh.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, I treat BookShare like a library, in that I
>>>>>>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>>>>>>> delete what I download when I'm finished reading. I'm sure that
>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>> users of BookShare  and NLS keep everything they download, and I
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> not mind at all if Bookshare or NLS encouraged and moved towards
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> model of renting and borrowing as opposed to downloading and
>>>>>>>>>>> keeping.
>>>>>>>>>>> Still, BookShare is my treasure trove and rental service for
>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> the public library is the treasure trove and rental service for
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted individuals.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brice
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/24/11, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Guys:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I came across an interesting editorial/article written by Josh
>>>>>>>>>>>> DeLioncourt from lioncourt.com/the Maccessibility Network and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>>>> to get your thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The article discusses the future of NLS and Bookshare and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> rise
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> ebooks. It suggests that as visually impaired/blind people we
>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>> try to move towards a future of reading/purchasing Ebooks from
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream sources such as the Amazon Kindle, Audible.com, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple's
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ibooks and that blindness-specific sources such as Bookshare.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> the NLS library service should go away.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for discussion sake what are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you see NLS and Bookshare completely going away in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> future?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for what it's worth, here are my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> While mainstream sources are great, what about braille and
>>>>>>>>>>>> braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> literacy? You can't use a braille display to read Kindle books.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Audible books are audio so no braille there. As far as I know
>>>>>>>>>>>> (someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> correct me if I'm wrong) you can't read Ibooks with a braille
>>>>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>>>>> either. I for one love Bookshare because you can download the
>>>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> BRF files and read them in braille on either a braille display
>>>>>>>>>>>> or a
>>>>>>>>>>>> notetaker. You can also get hardcopy braille books from NLS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What about those who do not like the voice used by the Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Samantha voice on the Iphone? I for one hate those
>>>>>>>>>>>> voices
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> reading book purposes...I've tried and just can't get into them
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> reading.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What about seniors just losing their vision? Though I hope as
>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>> people get into technology as possible you have to be somewhat
>>>>>>>>>>>> computer savvy to work the kindle PC software and the Ibooks app
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Iphone/Ipod touch/Ipad is all touchscreen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts...I would be very very sad if NLS and Bookshare
>>>>>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>>>>>> away completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> hHere is the article...just thought I'd bring this up for
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Crossroads: Rekindling the Accessible Ebook Discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>> by Josh de Lioncourt
>>>>>>>>>>>> A few weeks ago, I read a question posed by someone on Twitter
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> rekindled a line of thought I have had on and off for a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> years. In essence, the question was this: "We have
>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> National Library Service, and other similar resources. Why
>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> care about the accessibility of eBook platforms like iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Adobe Digital Editions, etc?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the surface, this question, which has been posed by several
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>> with whom I've been acquainted, appears to be a pragmatic one.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> digs a little deeper, however, it becomes an illustration of an
>>>>>>>>>>>> alarming attitude, often an unconscious one, throughout the
>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired community.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Before exploring that aspect, though, let's take a quick look at
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> a few of the strictly practical answers that can be given to
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> .In general, books released in printed form are now
>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneously
>>>>>>>>>>>> available in digital formats. This provides readers and students
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> access to material, be it for pleasure, education, or work, at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same time as their sighted counterparts. This is rarely the case
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> publications offered through many of the resources aimed at
>>>>>>>>>>>> providing
>>>>>>>>>>>> materials in accessible formats.
>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many of the resources which provide accessible materials are
>>>>>>>>>>>> understandably required to obtain medical proof of disability
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> their users before they are able to gain access to the content
>>>>>>>>>>>> provided. Some users may be unwilling or unable to jump through
>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>> hoops, or find it a violation of privacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some services require expensive, unwieldy, or otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>> or inefficient equipment to access their content. By contrast,
>>>>>>>>>>>> commercial solutions like Apple's iBooks and Amazon's Kindle
>>>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>> access to their content across a variety of mainstream devices,
>>>>>>>>>>>> including mobile phones.
>>>>>>>>>>>> .Some resources of accessible content, (i.e. BookShare.org),
>>>>>>>>>>>> charge
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> recurring fee for the service. For avid readers who consume
>>>>>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>>>>>>> number of books each year, this is undoubtedly a cost-efficient
>>>>>>>>>>>> solution. For those who read only occasionally, however, it can
>>>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>>>> far more costly than purchasing books from a digital retailer.
>>>>>>>>>>>> .Many books are never made available in accessible formats
>>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>> bodies.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is by no means an exhaustive list of practical reasons why
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired user may prefer access to a digital e-book
>>>>>>>>>>>> platform,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but it does provide a sample of the variety of such reasons. No
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> solution will ever work for all users, and that must be always
>>>>>>>>>>>> kept
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> mind when topics such as this are discussed or debated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a far more important issue that this subject raises,
>>>>>>>>>>>> however.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is best expressed in the form of a question: "As visually
>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>> people, what is it we desire most: equal access, or preferential
>>>>>>>>>>>> treatment?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago, this was not nearly as legitimate of a
>>>>>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Services like NLS and BookShare provided materials that were
>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>> inaccessible to those with visual impairments or other
>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> a manner that was equivalent to public libraries.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With the ever increasing ubiquity of the Internet, the
>>>>>>>>>>>> availability
>>>>>>>>>>>> and usage of public libraries around the globe has fallen
>>>>>>>>>>>> sharply.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Research can be done far more efficiently online, where the
>>>>>>>>>>>> wealth
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> information is virtually limitless and growing all the time. A
>>>>>>>>>>>> WikiPedia article outlines the basic statistics of the decline
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> library use over the last twenty years. As far back as 2001, 93%
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> college students felt it made more sense to obtain the
>>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>> they needed online than by visiting a physical library.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The majority of information online is, of course, far more
>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>> than the visually impaired have ever had access to in the past.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Few
>>>>>>>>>>>> technological advances, if any, have had such a profound impact
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> quality of life for visually impaired individuals, and you will
>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>> none who would argue that point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With the decline of libraries as a research tool has come the
>>>>>>>>>>>> decline
>>>>>>>>>>>> of their usage as a source of books consumed for pleasure as
>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask
>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself this: how many sighted readers do you know who
>>>>>>>>>>>> regularly,
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively, obtain books for a local public library to read.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>> answer will be very few, if any. These days, most avid readers
>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase books to read, just like any other form of
>>>>>>>>>>>> entertainment
>>>>>>>>>>>> media such as music or movies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> While the usefulness of services like NLS or BookShare.org in
>>>>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>>>>> passed is undeniable, their necessity is waning in the wake of
>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible mainstream sources of materials such as iBooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Inkling,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Audible.com. Though services providing accessible content to
>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>> with disabilities may still be the best, or in some cases the
>>>>>>>>>>>> only,
>>>>>>>>>>>> solution for some users today, we should be actively moving
>>>>>>>>>>>> toward
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> future of equal access with our sighted peers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems to me, and many others who have embraced the integrated
>>>>>>>>>>>> access of Apple products, that some quarters of the visually
>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>> community desire equal access without equal responsibility,
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>>>>>>> when regards written material. Do we, the visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>> community,
>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase music like everyone else? Do we buy DVD's like everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> else?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we pay for Coca-Colas at the corner store or our lattes at
>>>>>>>>>>>> StarBucks? Why not our books as well? Is the entertainment or
>>>>>>>>>>>> educational value of a novel by Stephen King or a instructional
>>>>>>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>>>>>>> on programming C++so low that we feel it isn't worth as much as
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the latest album by Lady Gaga or a course at the local
>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>> college?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who may argue that, given the high percentage of
>>>>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired individuals with low or limited incomes, they simply
>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>> afford to purchase books, I have two questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> First, what of all of the sighted individuals who are in similar
>>>>>>>>>>>> circumstances? The unemployment rate continues at high levels,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> sure many of those who are currently facing hard times would
>>>>>>>>>>>> love a
>>>>>>>>>>>> treasure trove of free books at their fingertips. Why don't we
>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>> BookShare.org or NLS up to these unfortunates?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Second, what about all the funds wasted, be it by individuals or
>>>>>>>>>>>> government agencies, on access technology which is less capable
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream solutions? For example, the GW Micro BookSense is
>>>>>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>>>>> in $349 USD and $499 USD varieties. It allows visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>> to read books in electronic format and listen to audio books or
>>>>>>>>>>>> music.
>>>>>>>>>>>> How is this a better value than, for example, an iPod touch,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>> provides the same functionality, plus Internet access, email,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> tens
>>>>>>>>>>>> of thousands of applications to extend its capabilities starting
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> just $229 USD? This isn't even to mention the fact that the iPod
>>>>>>>>>>>> touch
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be connected to a Braille display, has significantly more
>>>>>>>>>>>> storage,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and a battery warranty that is twice the length of what users
>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> the BookSense. Wouldn't money saved by integrated solutions
>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>> be better spent compensating the authors of useful or
>>>>>>>>>>>> entertaining
>>>>>>>>>>>> books for their hard work?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it not the height of hypocrisy that the visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>>>> wastes not a moment in lambasting, (even suing), companies like
>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon
>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lack of accessibility in its Kindle products, and yet
>>>>>>>>>>>> balks
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion that we begin moving away from having the majority of
>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>> printed materials handed over for free?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We, the visually impaired community, are rapidly approaching a
>>>>>>>>>>>> crossroads. It is time to prove that we have the courage of our
>>>>>>>>>>>> convictions. Will we be worthy of equal access, and by extension
>>>>>>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities? Or will we squander the chance to put ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> equal footing with the sighted world by an unwillingness to move
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward with society, and a misplaced sense of entitlement?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know which outcome I'm hoping for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gma
>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Brice Smith
>>>>>>>>>>> North Carolina State University, Communication - Public Relations
>>>>>>>>>>> Brice.Smith319 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.co
>>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>>>>>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>>>>>>>>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of
>>>>>>>>>> Guiding
>>>>>>>>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>>>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>>>>>>> life."
>>>>>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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