[nabs-l] Body language and facial expressions

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Wed Nov 23 23:38:06 UTC 2011 

I'm=20totally=20blind.=20=20I=20probably=20do=20that=20stuff=20naturally,=20=
but=20I=20
can't=20make=20myself=20look=20certain=20ways,=20as=20I=20don't=20know=20wh=
at=20I=20look=20
like.

Chris

"The=20real=20problem=20of=20blindness=20is=20not=20the=20loss=20of=20eyesi=
ght.=20=20The=20
real=20problem=20is=20the=20misunderstanding=20and=20lack=20of=20education=
=20that=20
exists.=20=20If=20a=20blind=20person=20has=20the=20proper=20training=20and=
=20
opportunity,=20blindness=20can=20be=20reduced=20to=20a=20mere=20physical=20=

nuisance."
--=20Kenneth=20Jernigan=20(President,=20National=20Federation=20of=20the=20=
Blind,=20
1968-1986

P.S.=20=20The=20I=20C.A.N.=20=20Foundation=20helps=20blind=20and=20visually=
=20impaired=20
youth=20in=20Maryland=20say=20"I=20can,"=20by=20empowering=20them=20through=
=20
providing=20assistive=20technology=20and=20scholarships=20to=20camps=20and=
=20
conventions=20which=20help=20them=20be=20equal=20with=20their=20sighted=20p=
eers.=20=20
For=20more=20information=20about=20the=20Foundation=20and=20to=20support=20=
our=20
work,=20visit=20us=20online=20at=20www.icanfoundation.info!

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Sat,=2019=20Nov=202011=2017:40:13=20-0500
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Body=20language=20and=20facial=20expressions

Patrick,
Right.=20=20Facial=20expressions=20are=20often=20natural.=20=20They=20refle=
ct=20our=20
mood.=20=20No=20one
taught=20me=20to=20look=20sad,=20happy,=20worried,=20annoyed,=20etc,=20it=20=
just=20
happens=20if=20I
feel=20that=20way.=20=20But=20some=20totally=20blind=20people=20seem=20so=20=

expressionless,=20and=20I
don't=20understand=20why,=20because=20like=20you=20said,=20facial=20express=
ions=20
are
genetically=20encoded.

-----Original=20Message-----
From:=20Patrick=20Molloy
Sent:=20Saturday,=20November=2019,=202011=204:59=20PM
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Body=20language=20and=20facial=20expressions

Bridgit,
I=20liked=20what=20you=20said,=20but=20I=20think=20you=20should=20know=20th=
at=20there=20are=20
some
facial=20expressions=20that=20blind=20people=20don't=20have=20to=20learn.=20=
=20For
instance,=20a=20smile=20is=20genetically=20encoded=20in=20everybody.=20=20W=
e=20don't=20
need
sighted=20people=20to=20tell=20us=20how=20to=20do=20that.=20=20I=20think=20=
it's=20best=20to=20
start
with=20what=20blind=20people=20already=20know,=20then=20find=20a=20trusted=
=20sighted
friend=20or=20family=20member=20and=20talk=20to=20them=20about=20nonverbal
communication.=20=20As=20I=20say,=20we=20really=20don't=20have=20far=20to=20=
go,=20because=20
there
are=20genetic=20codes=20for=20a=20lot=20of=20these=20facial=20expressions.=
=20=20It's=20
just=20a
matter=20of=20learning=20to=20use=20them=20and=20practicing=20them.
Patrick

On=2011/19/11,=20Ashley=20Bramlett=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>=20wrote:
=20that=20type=20of=20attitude=20won't=20get=20you=20a=20job=20or=20friends=
.=20=20Its=20not=20
about
=20fitting
=20into=20a=20box,=20its=20about=20learning=20appropriate=20communication=20=

behaviors=20to=20get
=20along=20in=20the=20world.=20=20If=20I=20decided=20to=20live=20in=20Franc=
e=20and=20work=20
there,=20I'd
=20learn
=20French=20culture,=20ways=20of=20greeting=20one=20another,=20personal=20s=
pace,=20
and=20other
=20customs=20and=20would=20also=20learn=20what=20was=20deemed=20offensive=20=
there.=20=20
So=20in=20our
=20culture=20here,=20I'll=20want=20to=20learn=20the=20same=20things=20only=
=20
differently=20since
=20most
=20people=20learn=20by=20observation.
=20Ashley

=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20Carly=20Mihalakis
=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20November=2019,=202011=204:03=20PM
=20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20=
;=20
National
=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Body=20language=20and=20facial=20expressions=



=20Good=20afternoon,=20Ashley=20I=20think,

=20What's=20with=20trying=20to=20cram=20everyone=20into=20boxes
=20upon=20which=20are=20plastered=20identifiers=20like
=20"blindness"=20and=20"cognitive=20impairments?"=20People
=20ought=20to=20feel=20they=20can=20just=20do=20what=20feels=20right,
=20and=20comfortable=20and=20not=20be=20pressured=20to=20shead
=20some=20mannerisms,=20while=20retaining=20others.=20=20Doncha
=20think?=20And,=20besides,=20there=20are=20folks=20starving,=20in
=20this=20here=20world=20so=20if=20kid=20needs=20to=20rock,=20and=20he
=20doesn't=20happen=20to=20have=20so-called=20cog=20native
=20impairment,=20let=20the=20kid=20rock=20around=20the=20whole,
=20clock!11/19/2011,=20Ashley=20Bramlett=20wrote:
Bridgit,=20Very=20well=20said!=20Sighted=20people=20in=20a=20culture=20lear=
n=20body=20
language
and=20facial=20expressions=20from=20observing=20others;=20our=20culture=20
emphasises
personal=20space,=20shaking=20hands=20to=20greet,=20and=20eye=20contact=20j=
ust=20as=20
some
examples.=20=20Blind=20and=20low=20vision=20people=20won=E2=80=99t=20see=20=
it,=20but=20if=20
someone=20works
with=20us,=20its=20still=20a=20learned=20behavior;=20we=20just=20learn=20in=
=20a=20
different=20way.=20=20I
think=20behaviors=20such=20as=20eye=20contact=20and=20shaking=20hands=20=20=
are=20
natural=20since=20I
learned=20early=20on=20as=20did=20sighted=20peers.=20=20Once=20practiced,=20=
it=20became=20
more
automatic.=20=20I=20also=20like=20your=20comment=20that=20we=20should=20try=
=20to=20
extinguish
behaviors=20associated=20with=20mental=20and=20cognitive=20behaviors.=20=20=

Rocking=20is=20one
of

them.=20=20Yet,=20I=20think=20it=20would=20be=20unnatural=20to=20learn=20so=
mething=20now;=20
I=20could
do

it,=20but=20it=20would=20probably=20be=20stiffer=20and=20not=20as=20natural=
=20like=20if=20I=20
learned
gestures.=20=20What=20I=20do=20though=20in=20a=20presentation=20is=20look=20=
around=20the=20
room=20from
left=20to=20right;=20speakers=20to=20do=20this=20to=20get=20attention=20and=
=20establish
themselves=20before=20talking=20to=20a=20group;=20I=20do=20it=20even=20thou=
gh=20I=20
cannot=20see=20a
lot,=20especially=20toward=20the=20back=20of=20the=20room.=20=20I=20can=20a=
lso=20say=20yes=20
or=20no=20with
my=20head=20because=20I=20was=20taught=20early=20on.=20=20But=20other=20non=
verbals=20such=20
as
winking,=20shrugging=20shoulders,=20and=20becconing=20with=20the=20hand=20w=
ere=20
not=20taught
and=20I=20think=20I'd=20be=20a=20little=20stiffer=20and=20unnatural=20doing=
=20them.=20=20
Still=20it
would=20be=20good=20to=20try=20and=20learn.=20=20Ashley=20-----Original=20
Message-----=20From:
Bridgit=20Pollpeter=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20November=2019,=202011=202:30=20PM=
=20To:
nabs-l at nfbnet.org=20Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20Body=20language=20and=20facial=20=

expressions
This=20is=20such=20a=20dodgy=20issue.=20=20It=20is=20a=20fine=20balance,=20=
and=20while=20I=20
understand
we

shouldn't=20use=20and=20act=20in=20ways=20completely=20unnatural=20to=20us,=
=20we=20also=20
should
try=20to=20follow=20behavior=20that's=20not=20indicative=20of=20other=20
disabilities
associated=20with=20mental=20and=20cognitive=20issues.=20=20Most=20body=20l=
anguage=20
and=20facial
expressions=20are=20learned=20behavior.=20=20Since=20most=20of=20the=20popu=
lation=20
is=20sighted,
we=20learn=20facial=20expressions=20and=20body=20language=20from=20observin=
g=20
others.
Babies

and=20little=20children=20often=20mimic=20what=20they=20see=20others=20doin=
g.=20=20As=20
we=20grow
older,=20we=20tend=20to=20adopt=20body=20and=20facial=20expressions=20natur=
al=20to=20us=20
as
individuals,=20but=20often=20associated,=20whether=20conscious=20or=20
unconscious,
through=20learned=20behavior.=20=20It=20stands=20to=20reason=20that=20if=20=
a=20person=20
is=20trying
to

adopt=20behavior=20nonvisually,=20one=20would=20work=20with=20another=20per=
son=20to=20
adopt,
and=20understand,=20certain=20facial=20and=20body=20expressions.=20=20Just=
=20
because=20we=20learn
the=20behavior,=20A.=20=20K.=20=20A.=20=20facial=20expressions=20and=20body=
=20language,=20
through=20a
nonvisual=20medium,=20does=20not=20necessarily=20imply=20that=20the=20facia=
l=20and=20
body
expressions=20a=20blind=20person=20replaces=20with=20either=20more=20stoic=
=20and=20
rigid
expressions=20or=20movement,=20or=20rocking=20or=20inappropriate=20movement=
s,=20
is
inorganic,=20or=20unnatural,=20to=20that=20individual.=20=20If=20you=20lear=
n,=20
though
nonvisually,=20a=20different=20way=20to=20move=20and=20express=20yourself,=
=20why=20
does=20it
have

to=20be=20unnatural=20and=20arbitrary?=20Like=20sighted=20people,=20we're=20=

adopting
behavior,=20just=20in=20a=20different=20way;=20it's=20learned=20behavior=20=
though=20
learned=20in
a=20nonvisual=20manner.=20=20And=20as=20I've=20stated=20earlier,=20I=20beli=
eve=20asking=20
u=20to
cover,=20hide,=20something=20like=20our=20eyes=20is=20equal=20to=20bleachin=
g=20skin=20
or
straightening=20hair=20or=20covering=20accents/dialects;=20I=20don't,=20
however,=20think
that=20changing=20certain=20behaviors,=20such=20as=20rocking,=20can=20be=20=
equated=20
to=20this.
First,=20all=20people=20have=20physical=20movements=20often=20unique=20to=20=
them=20as=20
an
individual=20whether=20noticeable=20or=20not.=20=20It's=20often=20instincti=
ve=20and
unconscious.=20=20However,=20some=20movements=20are=20associated=20with=20m=
ental,=20
cognitive
or=20psychological=20disabilities/concerns.=20=20In=20particular,=20rocking=
=20
is=20often
associated=20with=20developmental=20disabilities=20or=20abuse=20victims.=20=
=20
Certain
facial

expressions=20are=20also=20associated=20with=20developmental=20disabilities=
=20
and=20other
psychological=20issues.=20=20Obviously=20people=20who=20are=20blind,=20whil=
e=20many=20
do=20have
multiple=20disabilities,=20don't=20have=20developmental=20disabilities,=20b=
ut=20
because
some=20of=20the=20"blindisms"=20are=20also=20linked=20to=20such=20disabilit=
ies,=20I=20
don't
think

it's=20a=20problem=20to=20expect=20people=20who=20are=20blind=20to=20correc=
t=20such=20
behavior.=20=20I
don't=20see=20this=20similar=20to=20changing,=20or=20concealing,=20body=20p=
arts=20or=20
internal
attributes=20associated=20with=20race=20or=20ethnicity,=20or=20in=20the=20c=
ase=20of
disabilities=20that=20can't=20be=20controlled=20such=20as=20the=20functioni=
ng=20of=20
eyes=20or
missing=20limbs.=20=20In=20a=20nutshell,=20which=20I=20have=20problems=20fi=
tting=20
things=20into,
smile,=20my=20point=20is=20that=20body=20language=20and=20many=20facial=20e=
xpressions=20
are
picked=20up=20through=20learned=20behavior.=20=20Whether=20we=20learn=20thi=
s=20
behavior
visually

or=20nonvisually,=20it=20doesn't=20mean=20we're=20just=20going=20through=20=
the=20
motions-
acting=20as=20it=20were.=20=20It's=20the=20same=20process=20just=20done=20n=
onvisually.=20=20
Just=20as=20we
learn=20to=20read=20and=20write=20Braille=20or=20use=20adaptive=20technolog=
y=20with=20
computers.
We're=20doing=20the=20same=20things,=20just=20in=20a=20different=20way.=20=
=20I=20also=20
don't=20think
we

can=20compare=20certain=20changes=20nade=20,=20physically=20or=20internally=
,=20
indicative=20of
race=20or=20ethnicity,=20to=20correcting=20social=20behavior=20such=20as=20=
body=20
language=20or
facial=20expressions=20either=20linked=20to=20other=20disabilities=20or=20
inappropriate=20to
a=20given=20situation.=20=20Sincerely,=20Bridgit=20Kuenning-Pollpeter=20Rea=
d=20my=20
blog=20at:
http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/=20"History=20is=20
not=20what
happened;=20history=20is=20what=20was=20written=20down."=20The=20Expected=20=
One-=20
Kathleen
McGowan=20Message:=207=20Date:=20Fri,=2018=20Nov=202011=2013:26:31=20-0700=
=20From:=20
Marc
Workman

<mworkman.lists at gmail.com>=20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20
Students
mailing=20list=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Blindnes=
s=20
versus
other=20minority=20groups=20Message-ID:
<039F2609-C62A-4985-83E1-FBC50C239F70 at gmail.com>=20Content-Type:=20
text/plain;
charset=3Dus-ascii=20Carly=20wrote,=20How=20can=20facial=20expressions=20an=
d=20
other=20body
language=20convey=20meaning=20if=20they=20are=20not=20naturally,=20ocuring?=
=20For=20
this
reason

I=20don't=20see=20a=20reason=20to=20sort=20of=20put=20on=20nonverbal,=20exp=
ression=20if,=20
behind=20it
there=20is=20little,=20meaning?=20I=20want=20to=20take=20Carly's=20point=20=
further=20
and=20suggest
that=20pressuring=20blind=20people=20to=20look=20and=20act=20like=20others=
=20is=20in=20
itself
wrong.=20=20I'm=20not=20suggesting=20there=20is=20no=20value=20to=20it,=20n=
or=20am=20I=20
saying=20it
should=20never=20be=20done,=20but=20it=20makes=20me=20uncomfortable.=20=20T=
he=20subject=20
of=20this
thread=20is=20comparing=20blindness=20to=20other=20minorities.=20=20I=20thi=
nk=20
there's=20a
parallel=20between=20pressuring=20blind=20people=20to=20look=20and=20act=20=
like=20
everyone
else

and=20things=20that=20some=20minorities=20used=20to=20do=20and=20still=20do=
=20for=20
similar
reasons.=20=20In=20the=20past,=20among=20African=20Americans,=20there=20exi=
sted=20the=20
practice
of=20skin=20bleaching=20and=20hair=20straightening=20for=20the=20purpose=20=
of=20
appearing=20less
black=20and/or=20more=20white.=20=20I=20can't=20give=20evidence=20to=20show=
=20how=20
common=20this
was,=20but=20Malcolm=20X=20talked=20about=20trying=20to=20remove=20the=20ki=
nk=20from=20
his=20hair
himself=20and=20finding=20it=20a=20physically=20and=20emotionally=20painful=
=20
process.
There

are=20also=20surgeries=20performed=20to=20give=20people=20of=20East=20Asian=
=20descent=20
more
"white=20looking"=20eyes=20and=20Jews=20more=20"white=20looking"=20noses.=20=
=20These=20
are=20just
a

couple=20of=20examples.=20=20Pressuring=20minorities=20to=20adopt=20the=20d=
ominant=20
group's
style=20of=20dress,=20gate,=20diction,=20body=20language,=20etc=20also=20of=
ten=20
happens.=20=20I
hope=20we=20can=20agree=20that=20this=20is=20at=20the=20very=20least=20unfo=
rtunate.=20=20
There=20may
be

psychological=20and=20other=20explanations=20for=20why=20this=20occurs,=20b=
ut=20
feeling
pressured=20to=20get=20a=20nose=20job=20or=20to=20bleach=20your=20skin=20so=
=20that=20you=20
look=20more
like=20one=20particular=20group=20in=20society=20is=20problematic=20to=20sa=
y=20the=20
least.=20=20So
what's=20the=20difference=20between=20these=20cases=20and=20pressuring=20a=
=20blind=20
person=20to
adopt=20the=20behavioural=20habits,=20facial=20expressions,=20body=20langua=
ge=20
etc=20of
some

sighted=20people?=20You=20might=20say=20that=20we=20live=20in=20a=20sighted=
=20world=20and=20
so=20we
have=20to=20adapt.=20=20There=20is=20something=20to=20this,=20but=20I=20won=
der=20if=20it=20
would=20be
equally=20acceptable=20to=20say=20we=20live=20in=20a=20white-dominated=20wo=
rld=20so=20
non-whites
have=20to=20adapt.=20=20It=20may=20be=20the=20case=20that=20blind=20people=
=20who=20don't=20
"look
blind"

are=20more=20successful=20and=20integrate=20better,=20and=20it=20also=20may=
=20be=20that
non-whites=20who=20look=20and=20act=20white=20are=20more=20successful=20and=
=20
integrate
better,

but=20in=20neither=20case=20is=20it=20just=20that=20the=20minorities=20need=
=20to=20assume=20
the
dominant=20groups=20characteristics=20in=20order=20to=20be=20successful.=20=
=20What=20
ultimately
needs=20to=20happen=20is=20not=20that=20blind=20people=20begin=20to=20look=
=20and=20act=20
like
sighted

people,=20but=20that=20we=20all=20become=20more=20accepting=20of=20differen=
ces=20that=20
are
arbitrary=20and=20irrelevant.=20=20Most,=20if=20not=20all,=20so=20called=20=
blindisms=20
are
irrelevant,=20and=20I=20see=20no=20more=20reason=20to=20stamp=20them=20out=
=20than=20I=20do=20
for
trying

to=20eliminate=20various=20differences=20in=20behaviour=20and=20appearance=
=20
possessed=20by
other=20minority=20groups.=20=20Cheers,
_______________________________________________=20nabs-l=20mailing=20
list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org=20To
unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20account=20=
info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0earthlink.net

_______________________________________________=20nabs-l=20mailing=20
list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org=20To
unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20account=20=
info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40ea
rthlink.net

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