[nabs-l] Blindness vs. Other Minority Groups

[Jedi]

That's exactly what i'm interested in. I'm getting this book on 
encounter groups in the next week or two. I'll let you know how it goes 
as I read it.

Respectfully Submitted

Original message:
> I wonder if a society goes through different stages of "acceptance"
> for a minority group within that society. And if so, whether "you're
> pretty smart for a blind person" is one of those stages, just like in
> some other countries a few decades ago, people did make comments such
> as "you are pretty smart for a women", but now these countries have
> much better gender equity. The optimistic news is that advancements
> made by the other minority groups show that indeed this change can
> happen.  The question is what are these stages, and what different
> strategies and tactics did other minority groups deploy at different
> stages to moved the society forward?  Since Arielle used women as one
> of the comparison example, I should mention that the World Economic
> Forum just issued its flatest Global Gender Gap Ranking Report last
> week. The world ranking is a de facto illustration of different stages
> of gender equity in different countries, and perhaps the blind
> community can compare ourselves to these countries and see what stage
> we are at now, and what are some of the best practices women in those
> countries are using to move their societies to the next stage of
> acceptance and inclusion, as well as countries where the wrong tactics
> were used and hence are still stuck at the same stages for a decade.

> On 11/7/11, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all.

>> I know this was mentioned a bit in previous messages, but I think the
>> big difference is the fact that sighted people believe that we are
>> always in need of help.  They take it as a matter of course that we
>> are helpless and can't do whatever it is by ourselves.  Now I am
>> speaking generally; I do not mean all sighted people.

>> I don't believe that other minority groups deal with this problem.
>> White people don't try to help African Americans with simple tasks
>> without asking them if they need it as sighted people often do to the
>> blind.  When blind people refuse help or get annoyed when they are
>> treated differently, then the sighted people are offended when the
>> blind speak and advocate for themselves.

>> I actually think that educating complete strangers is easier than
>> educating people I know.  I have been called angry and prideful
>> because I refuse to allow people to grab my arm and propell me along,
>> and I get very frustrated with people who will not talk to me in favor
>> of speaking to my sighted friends.  It was said to me by a friend that
>> I should just deal with it and accept the help because it is easier
>> that way.  I don't even know if this person even understood how
>> offensive that comment was to me.

>> When I am in the middle of a situation where in I have to educate
>> someone, I try to handle it with firm politeness.  It helps to keep a
>> smile in place and explain it as though these things happen all the
>> time, which they do.  You can complain and rant to your friends later.
>>  :)

>> The other problem is that there really is a time and a place for
>> advocacy and education.  I am a performer, so I must walk on stage.  I
>> prefer to do this independently.  I am a singer, and I work with an
>> accompanist.  We have been working together for about five years.  She
>> knows that I will walk on stage on my own.  This weekend at a singing
>> competition I had to work with another accompanist.  This one thought
>> it necessary to grab my arm and stop me at my place in front of the
>> piano and try to turn me around to face the audience.  I was stuck.  I
>> could not give her a speach then and there of course, but I was afraid
>> that it would look bad that she was litterally trying to turn me
>> around like I didn't know which way to face on my own.

>> Unfortunately, even when I tried to explain it to her later, she did
>> not understand.  I have also taught my guide dog to stop when people
>> grab my arm.  This is actually quite fun.  The person trying to pull
>> me along will get annoyed and inquire as to why I am not moving.  When
>> I explain calmly that my dog stops when people try to guide me because
>> it is her job to guide me, and she does not need to compete with
>> others, they understand and don't get too offended.

>> This is a very interesting thread, and I've been enjoying reading
>> about all your thoughts and experiences.

>> On 11/6/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
>>> Chris,

>>> People of Color have had to deal with misconceptions about their
>>> capabilities and still do. For along time, there was a psychological
>>> science devoted to explaining how Black people are mentally inferior to
>>> White people in order to justify segregation and the prejudice that
>>> African Americans face in schools. Lots of White people still think
>>> that Blacks are more prone to violence and stealing than Whites. And
>>> don't get me started on GLBT: you'd be horrified to learn what they go
>>> through. The point is that discrimination and prejudice, as well as
>>> misconceptions about their cabilities and characteristics, are alive
>>> and well; people have just gotten a lot better at hiding their negative
>>> judgments. And as to the disabled populus, I think the reason why
>>> people don't hide their prejudices is because they don't associate that
>>> kind of prejudice with hatred, a certainly undesireable attitude
>>> socially speaking.

>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi

>>> Original message:
>>>> Hi Arielle,

>>>> You raise some good points here, and I hope this starts a good
>>>> discussion; one that I believe is good to have.  In my opinion,
>>>> the difference between the public's stereotyping and
>>>> discrimination of blind people and that of other minority groups
>>>> is this: blind people have to deal with more misconceptions about
>>>> us.  In other words, there are still widely-held misconceptions
>>>> about us and what we can and cannot do, which are held by the
>>>> public as being true.  This, of course, is a generalisation; not
>>>> all of the public believes these misconceptions to be true,
>>>> especially those members of the public who work directly with us
>>>> or are friends or relatives of a blind person; those who know
>>>> from experience what blind people can do.  It seems to me that
>>>> these misconceptions are passed down through the generations;
>>>> from one generation to their children, then passed on to those
>>>> children's children, then to their children, and to their
>>>> children, and so on.  When these beliefs are taught for a long
>>>> time and are handed down through the generations, it becomes
>>>> easier for people to believe them and they mostly do.  These
>>>> misconceptions, which are widely believed by a vast majority of
>>>> the public, are the beliefs from which the stereotyping and
>>>> discrimination stem.  Then, the misconceptions of the public
>>>> directly effect us, as we then become the object of
>>>> discrimination and stereotypes.  To me, other minority groups
>>>> don't have this problem.  Take the African-Americans for example.
>>>> Are there any widely-held misconceptions about what they can do
>>>> and how successful they can be? No! Are there any doubts as to
>>>> their ability to compete on terms of equality with their white
>>>> piers? No! Are their any questions about their ability to be
>>>> employed? No! Even during the segregation era, this group was not
>>>> discriminated against for the reason that there were
>>>> misconceptions held by the white that they couldn't be on terms
>>>> of equality with everybody else in society, but for the simple
>>>> reason that they were different! During this time, I think the
>>>> majority, the white population, forgot the undisputed fact that
>>>> all people are different, and that having a different skin color
>>>> doesn't justify looking down on a person.  The beliefs about
>>>> blind people which make people discriminate against us are of a
>>>> different character than the beliefs which make people
>>>> discriminate against other minorities.  The difference is that
>>>> the beliefs about blindness which cause discrimination against us
>>>> to happen are stemmed from a lack of education about the truth
>>>> about blindness, whereas the beliefs which make people
>>>> discriminate against other minorities (I'm talking about
>>>> minorities based on skin color, religion, political beliefs,
>>>> sexual orientation, etc.) are just based on relatively untrue
>>>> stereotypes and thoughts.  Therefore, people who might stereotype
>>>> or discriminate against us wouldn't tolerate discrimination based
>>>> on race, religion, etc, because the times have changed and the
>>>> misconceptions and discrimination have no justification
>>>> whatsoever, nor are even legal, in the case of outright
>>>> discrimination.  However, they would stereotype about us because
>>>> they don't have the education about blindness to see the fact
>>>> that these stereotypes aren't justified either.  For this reason,
>>>> we have organizations such as the Federation to educate and
>>>> advocate.  We have a special responsibility, in my opinion, that
>>>> many other minority groups don't have; to educate the public.  We
>>>> have to make sure everybody knows what blind people really can do
>>>> and prove that we can compete on terms of equality with our
>>>> sighted piers.  Other minority groups have proven this already,
>>>> and the little discrimination that still exists is generally
>>>> thought to be ridiculous and baseless.  However, the public
>>>> doesn't think of discrimination against the blind that way,
>>>> simply because they don't think it's discrimination! They're OK
>>>> with it, because they aren't educated.  So, it is our job to
>>>> educate them! I should also say that we also need to educate by
>>>> example, meaning that we must not discriminate or stereotype
>>>> against other people.  Those are my thoughts.

>>>> Chris

>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:09:24 -0600
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness vs.  Other Minority Groups

>>>> Warning-this topic has the potential to start a heated debate,
>>>> but I
>>>> also think it is an interesting and important topic for us as
>>>> blind
>>>> people to think about.
>>>> Lately I have been thinking a lot about how the problems faced by
>>>> the
>>>> blind are similar to or different from those faced by other
>>>> minority
>>>> groups in this country historically and in the present.  More
>>>> than
>>>> that, I have been thinking about how the general public sees us
>>>> as a
>>>> group in comparison to how they view other minority groups.  It
>>>> has
>>>> struck me that oftentimes members of the general public treat us
>>>> in
>>>> discriminatory ways or stereotype us without even considering
>>>> that
>>>> this kind of treatment resembles stereotyping and discrimination
>>>> against other minority groups.
>>>> Let me give a concrete example.  In his book Freedom for the
>>>> Blind, Jim
>>>> Omvig writes of a time when he was directing a training center
>>>> and a
>>>> female staff member at the center commented, "You do your job so
>>>> well,
>>>> sometimes I forget you're blind!" Seeing the teachable moment,
>>>> Mr.
>>>> Omvig brought up this incident to his students during a
>>>> philosophy
>>>> class, and to illustrate his point he said to the woman, "You are
>>>> such
>>>> a good teacher, sometimes I forget you're a woman!" From what I
>>>> recall, the staff member got a bit upset and insisted that "no,
>>>> what I
>>>> said about you being blind was very different from what you said
>>>> about
>>>> my being a woman.  I was just trying to give you a compliment!"
>>>> Now, as blind people most of us understand the problem with her
>>>> comment-the implication that being blind must not be very good,
>>>> so
>>>> someone who does a good job isn't like other blind people.  To me
>>>> this
>>>> sounds like the same problem as making the analogous comment to a
>>>> woman-but she didn't see it that way.  Why not? Is there a
>>>> difference
>>>> here?
>>>> I have often been quite frustrated when people I know and
>>>> trust-friends or family members, who have very liberal views
>>>> about
>>>> race, would never utter a racial slur or support discrimination
>>>> against racial minorities, women, gays etc.  who nonetheless have
>>>> no
>>>> qualms about saying negative things about blindness.  Like saying
>>>> blind
>>>> people are all worse than the sighted at something, or that blind
>>>> people are more dependent or less successful than the sighted,
>>>> etc.
>>>> They will sometimes say these things to my face and don't
>>>> understand
>>>> why I don't like to hear these things.  Sometimes family members
>>>> will
>>>> make comments comparing me favorably to other blind people.  They
>>>> think
>>>> they are giving me compliments, and fail to understand that I
>>>> don't
>>>> want to hear negative things spoken about the blind as a
>>>> collective.
>>>> Yet these same people would never tell an African American that
>>>> they
>>>> are "smart for a black person" etc.  I remember during the
>>>> protests
>>>> against the Blindness film in 2008, I was perplexed by how many
>>>> people
>>>> just didn't get it, and didn't see what harm the film could
>>>> do-and yet
>>>> an analogous film where everyone developed black skin or female
>>>> anatomy with such dire consequences would never be accepted in
>>>> our
>>>> modern society.  And finally, in my research, I have observed
>>>> that the
>>>> college students in my experiments have no problem saying on a
>>>> survey
>>>> that the blind are much less competent than the sighted, yet
>>>> would
>>>> never say such things directly about another minority group-in
>>>> fact,
>>>> lots of fancy indirect measures have been developed to tap those
>>>> attitudes because people nowadays are so unwilling to admit their
>>>> prejudices, unless it's toward the blind.
>>>> So, what's up? Are stereotypes about the blind somehow more
>>>> accurate
>>>> than stereotypes about ethnic minorities? Is discrimination
>>>> against
>>>> the blind somehow more justified? Or is it just that we are such
>>>> a
>>>> small group that we haven't developed the same history, had the
>>>> same
>>>> scale of civil rights activism, etc.  to raise people's
>>>> awareness? Do
>>>> you guys think we deserve the same considerations as other
>>>> minorities
>>>> in this country? If not, am I missing something? If so, how do we
>>>> get
>>>> members of the public to see this?
>>>> Also, as an aside, I'm curious to hear from those of you who are
>>>> "dual
>>>> minorities" being both blind and a member of a minority group in
>>>> this
>>>> country (ethnicity-wise, or a different group like GLBT, uncommon
>>>> religious beliefs etc.) How do you think your two identities are
>>>> similar? Different? Do you feel they interact with one another?
>>>> I look forward to the discussion.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>>> m%40gmail.com

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

>>> --
>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com



>> --
>> Julie McG
>>  Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind

>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16

>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/philso1003%40gmail.com


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.