[nabs-l] Blindness vs. Other Minority Groups
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Wed Nov 16 01:57:33 UTC 2011
I know, Joshua! I have noticed that too when I've travelled down
to your neck of the woods! * Smile! I actually have family in
Arkansas (Hot Springs village,) so we go down there sometimes.
People up here and north of Maryland don't pay attention
sometimes, but I'm sure there's people who don't pay attention
down there, and I know there's a lot of people who pay attention
up here.
Chris
"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists. If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan (President, National Federation of the Blind,
1968-1986
P.S. The I C.A.N. Foundation helps blind and visually impaired
youth in Maryland say "I can," by empowering them through
providing assistive technology and scholarships to camps and
conventions which help them be equal with their sighted peers.
For more information about the Foundation and to support our
work, visit us online at www.icanfoundation.info!
Sent from my BrailleNote Apex
----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 22:46:11 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness vs. Other Minority Groups
Julie:
You make some great points.
As a musician, myself, I may need assistance to the stage, if I
haven't practiced the route before the concert.
As a Gospel artist, that travels alot, I don't have the time to
learn
the route to and from the platform.
If it's a place I've frequently gone to, I can make it where I
need to go.
When there's an instance, where I need sighted assistance, I show
the
guide how to do it correctly, and it's very successful.
Some people up north don't pay any attention, but in the South
where I
live, it's different.
I know, because I went through several disasters with guides, in
the
Indianapolis area.
Blessings, Joshua
On 11/7/11, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jedi and everyone.
I've conditioned my dog to stop by beginning to stop myself when
people grab me. Actually, I didn't need to condition her for
when
people grabe my left(dog) arm. She really does not like that.
But
now we're working on stopping when people grab my right arm as
well.
Generally my dog will just ignore people who grab my right arm,
but
this, as some of you might know, will just make the person tug
harder
in the direction they want you to go.
About the smile: I think part of it is the fact that I am a
rather
smiley person. The other (and bigger) part of it is that I
don't
think we will get anywhere by being grumpy about it. Now if
someone
keeps grabbing me or doing other things even though I have told
them
repeatedly not to, that is a different story. I will get quite
agrivated, but you can be firm, serious, and calmly polite all
at
once.
I know there are different views on this. Why should we be
smiley and
happy when someone is truely being annoying to us? I don't
think
there is a law that says you have to be nice about it, but I
believe
that people are more likely to listen to me if I talk to them
like a
friend or an equal instead of their enemy just as I am more
likely to
listen to someone tell me about their life if they are telling
me
calmly how it is different from mine instead of being harsh and
rude.
I think I was just so surprised that she didn't listen to me
that the
words didn't even come. I'm so used to my other accompanist,
who has
learned that I do not need to be guided on the stage. I really
do
think that some sighted people take it as a matter of course
that we
need help, so they just help and don't even think twice about
it.
They are trained by the media or whatever that we need help with
the
various things we do, so it doesn't enter their mind that we
might not
want it or need it. This is not an excuse, but we need to
understand
this when dealing with them. We need to talk to them under the
impression that they can and are willing to learn, that is, if
we want
to teach them. Of course I don't think every day should be an
educational day on the abilities of the blind. Lol We have
lives
too.
On 11/7/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
That's exactly what i'm interested in. I'm getting this book on
encounter groups in the next week or two. I'll let you know how
it goes
as I read it.
Respectfully Submitted
Original message:
I wonder if a society goes through different stages of
"acceptance"
for a minority group within that society. And if so, whether
"you're
pretty smart for a blind person" is one of those stages, just
like in
some other countries a few decades ago, people did make comments
such
as "you are pretty smart for a women", but now these countries
have
much better gender equity. The optimistic news is that
advancements
made by the other minority groups show that indeed this change
can
happen. The question is what are these stages, and what
different
strategies and tactics did other minority groups deploy at
different
stages to moved the society forward? Since Arielle used women
as one
of the comparison example, I should mention that the World
Economic
Forum just issued its flatest Global Gender Gap Ranking Report
last
week. The world ranking is a de facto illustration of different
stages
of gender equity in different countries, and perhaps the blind
community can compare ourselves to these countries and see what
stage
we are at now, and what are some of the best practices women in
those
countries are using to move their societies to the next stage of
acceptance and inclusion, as well as countries where the wrong
tactics
were used and hence are still stuck at the same stages for a
decade.
On 11/7/11, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all.
I know this was mentioned a bit in previous messages, but I
think the
big difference is the fact that sighted people believe that we
are
always in need of help. They take it as a matter of course that
we
are helpless and can't do whatever it is by ourselves. Now I am
speaking generally; I do not mean all sighted people.
I don't believe that other minority groups deal with this
problem.
White people don't try to help African Americans with simple
tasks
without asking them if they need it as sighted people often do
to the
blind. When blind people refuse help or get annoyed when they
are
treated differently, then the sighted people are offended when
the
blind speak and advocate for themselves.
I actually think that educating complete strangers is easier
than
educating people I know. I have been called angry and prideful
because I refuse to allow people to grab my arm and propell me
along,
and I get very frustrated with people who will not talk to me in
favor
of speaking to my sighted friends. It was said to me by a
friend that
I should just deal with it and accept the help because it is
easier
that way. I don't even know if this person even understood how
offensive that comment was to me.
When I am in the middle of a situation where in I have to
educate
someone, I try to handle it with firm politeness. It helps to
keep a
smile in place and explain it as though these things happen all
the
time, which they do. You can complain and rant to your friends
later.
:)
The other problem is that there really is a time and a place for
advocacy and education. I am a performer, so I must walk on
stage. I
prefer to do this independently. I am a singer, and I work with
an
accompanist. We have been working together for about five
years. She
knows that I will walk on stage on my own. This weekend at a
singing
competition I had to work with another accompanist. This one
thought
it necessary to grab my arm and stop me at my place in front of
the
piano and try to turn me around to face the audience. I was
stuck. I
could not give her a speach then and there of course, but I was
afraid
that it would look bad that she was litterally trying to turn me
around like I didn't know which way to face on my own.
Unfortunately, even when I tried to explain it to her later, she
did
not understand. I have also taught my guide dog to stop when
people
grab my arm. This is actually quite fun. The person trying to
pull
me along will get annoyed and inquire as to why I am not moving.
When
I explain calmly that my dog stops when people try to guide me
because
it is her job to guide me, and she does not need to compete with
others, they understand and don't get too offended.
This is a very interesting thread, and I've been enjoying
reading
about all your thoughts and experiences.
On 11/6/11, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
Chris,
People of Color have had to deal with misconceptions about their
capabilities and still do. For along time, there was a
psychological
science devoted to explaining how Black people are mentally
inferior to
White people in order to justify segregation and the prejudice
that
African Americans face in schools. Lots of White people still
think
that Blacks are more prone to violence and stealing than Whites.
And
don't get me started on GLBT: you'd be horrified to learn what
they go
through. The point is that discrimination and prejudice, as
well as
misconceptions about their cabilities and characteristics, are
alive
and well; people have just gotten a lot better at hiding their
negative
judgments. And as to the disabled populus, I think the reason
why
people don't hide their prejudices is because they don't
associate that
kind of prejudice with hatred, a certainly undesireable attitude
socially speaking.
Respectfully,
Jedi
Original message:
Hi Arielle,
You raise some good points here, and I hope this starts a good
discussion; one that I believe is good to have. In my opinion,
the difference between the public's stereotyping and
discrimination of blind people and that of other minority groups
is this: blind people have to deal with more misconceptions
about
us. In other words, there are still widely-held misconceptions
about us and what we can and cannot do, which are held by the
public as being true. This, of course, is a generalisation; not
all of the public believes these misconceptions to be true,
especially those members of the public who work directly with us
or are friends or relatives of a blind person; those who know
from experience what blind people can do. It seems to me that
these misconceptions are passed down through the generations;
from one generation to their children, then passed on to those
children's children, then to their children, and to their
children, and so on. When these beliefs are taught for a long
time and are handed down through the generations, it becomes
easier for people to believe them and they mostly do. These
misconceptions, which are widely believed by a vast majority of
the public, are the beliefs from which the stereotyping and
discrimination stem. Then, the misconceptions of the public
directly effect us, as we then become the object of
discrimination and stereotypes. To me, other minority groups
don't have this problem. Take the African-Americans for
example.
Are there any widely-held misconceptions about what they can do
and how successful they can be? No! Are there any doubts as to
their ability to compete on terms of equality with their white
piers? No! Are their any questions about their ability to be
employed? No! Even during the segregation era, this group was
not
discriminated against for the reason that there were
misconceptions held by the white that they couldn't be on terms
of equality with everybody else in society, but for the simple
reason that they were different! During this time, I think the
majority, the white population, forgot the undisputed fact that
all people are different, and that having a different skin color
doesn't justify looking down on a person. The beliefs about
blind people which make people discriminate against us are of a
different character than the beliefs which make people
discriminate against other minorities. The difference is that
the beliefs about blindness which cause discrimination against
us
to happen are stemmed from a lack of education about the truth
about blindness, whereas the beliefs which make people
discriminate against other minorities (I'm talking about
minorities based on skin color, religion, political beliefs,
sexual orientation, etc.) are just based on relatively untrue
stereotypes and thoughts. Therefore, people who might
stereotype
or discriminate against us wouldn't tolerate discrimination
based
on race, religion, etc, because the times have changed and the
misconceptions and discrimination have no justification
whatsoever, nor are even legal, in the case of outright
discrimination. However, they would stereotype about us because
they don't have the education about blindness to see the fact
that these stereotypes aren't justified either. For this
reason,
we have organizations such as the Federation to educate and
advocate. We have a special responsibility, in my opinion, that
many other minority groups don't have; to educate the public.
We
have to make sure everybody knows what blind people really can
do
and prove that we can compete on terms of equality with our
sighted piers. Other minority groups have proven this already,
and the little discrimination that still exists is generally
thought to be ridiculous and baseless. However, the public
doesn't think of discrimination against the blind that way,
simply because they don't think it's discrimination! They're OK
with it, because they aren't educated. So, it is our job to
educate them! I should also say that we also need to educate by
example, meaning that we must not discriminate or stereotype
against other people. Those are my thoughts.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:09:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Blindness vs. Other Minority Groups
Warning-this topic has the potential to start a heated debate,
but I
also think it is an interesting and important topic for us as
blind
people to think about.
Lately I have been thinking a lot about how the problems faced
by
the
blind are similar to or different from those faced by other
minority
groups in this country historically and in the present. More
than
that, I have been thinking about how the general public sees us
as a
group in comparison to how they view other minority groups. It
has
struck me that oftentimes members of the general public treat us
in
discriminatory ways or stereotype us without even considering
that
this kind of treatment resembles stereotyping and discrimination
against other minority groups.
Let me give a concrete example. In his book Freedom for the
Blind, Jim
Omvig writes of a time when he was directing a training center
and a
female staff member at the center commented, "You do your job so
well,
sometimes I forget you're blind!" Seeing the teachable moment,
Mr.
Omvig brought up this incident to his students during a
philosophy
class, and to illustrate his point he said to the woman, "You
are
such
a good teacher, sometimes I forget you're a woman!" From what I
recall, the staff member got a bit upset and insisted that "no,
what I
said about you being blind was very different from what you said
about
my being a woman. I was just trying to give you a compliment!"
Now, as blind people most of us understand the problem with her
comment-the implication that being blind must not be very good,
so
someone who does a good job isn't like other blind people. To
me
this
sounds like the same problem as making the analogous comment to
a
woman-but she didn't see it that way. Why not? Is there a
difference
here?
I have often been quite frustrated when people I know and
trust-friends or family members, who have very liberal views
about
race, would never utter a racial slur or support discrimination
against racial minorities, women, gays etc. who nonetheless
have
no
qualms about saying negative things about blindness. Like
saying
blind
people are all worse than the sighted at something, or that
blind
people are more dependent or less successful than the sighted,
etc.
They will sometimes say these things to my face and don't
understand
why I don't like to hear these things. Sometimes family members
will
make comments comparing me favorably to other blind people.
They
think
they are giving me compliments, and fail to understand that I
don't
want to hear negative things spoken about the blind as a
collective.
Yet these same people would never tell an African American that
they
are "smart for a black person" etc. I remember during the
protests
against the Blindness film in 2008, I was perplexed by how many
people
just didn't get it, and didn't see what harm the film could
do-and yet
an analogous film where everyone developed black skin or female
anatomy with such dire consequences would never be accepted in
our
modern society. And finally, in my research, I have observed
that the
college students in my experiments have no problem saying on a
survey
that the blind are much less competent than the sighted, yet
would
never say such things directly about another minority group-in
fact,
lots of fancy indirect measures have been developed to tap those
attitudes because people nowadays are so unwilling to admit
their
prejudices, unless it's toward the blind.
So, what's up? Are stereotypes about the blind somehow more
accurate
than stereotypes about ethnic minorities? Is discrimination
against
the blind somehow more justified? Or is it just that we are such
a
small group that we haven't developed the same history, had the
same
scale of civil rights activism, etc. to raise people's
awareness? Do
you guys think we deserve the same considerations as other
minorities
in this country? If not, am I missing something? If so, how do
we
get
members of the public to see this?
Also, as an aside, I'm curious to hear from those of you who are
"dual
minorities" being both blind and a member of a minority group in
this
country (ethnicity-wise, or a different group like GLBT,
uncommon
religious beliefs etc.) How do you think your two identities are
similar? Different? Do you feel they interact with one another?
I look forward to the discussion.
Best,
Arielle
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Julie McG
Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in
Opera
Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of
Guiding
Eyes for the Blind
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16
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Julie McG
Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in
Opera
Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of
Guiding
Eyes for the Blind
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16
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