[nabs-l] Body language and facial expressions

Sat Nov 19 22:40:13 UTC 2011

Patrick,
Right. Facial expressions are often natural. They reflect our mood. No one 
taught me to look sad, happy, worried, annoyed, etc, it just happens if I 
feel that way. But some totally blind people seem so expressionless, and I 
don't understand why, because like you said, facial expressions are
genetically encoded.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Patrick Molloy
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Body language and facial expressions

Bridgit,
I liked what you said, but I think you should know that there are some
facial expressions that blind people don't have to learn. For
instance, a smile is genetically encoded in everybody. We don't need
sighted people to tell us how to do that. I think it's best to start
with what blind people already know, then find a trusted sighted
friend or family member and talk to them about nonverbal
communication. As I say, we really don't have far to go, because there
are genetic codes for a lot of these facial expressions. It's just a
matter of learning to use them and practicing them.
Patrick

On 11/19/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> that type of attitude won't get you a job or friends. Its not about 
> fitting
> into a box, its about learning appropriate communication behaviors to get
> along in the world. If I decided to live in France and work there, I'd 
> learn
> French culture, ways of greeting one another, personal space, and other
> customs and would also learn what was deemed offensive there. So in our
> culture here, I'll want to learn the same things only differently since 
> most
> people learn by observation.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carly Mihalakis
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:03 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list ; National
> Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Body language and facial expressions
>
>
> Good afternoon, Ashley I think,
>
> What's with trying to cram everyone into boxes
> upon which are plastered identifiers like
> "blindness" and "cognitive impairments?" People
> ought to feel they can just do what feels right,
> and comfortable and not be pressured to shead
> some mannerisms, while retaining others. Doncha
> think? And, besides, there are folks starving, in
> this here world so if kid needs to rock, and he
> doesn't happen to have so-called cog native
> impairment, let the kid rock around the whole,
> clock!11/19/2011, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>>Bridgit, Very well said! Sighted people in a culture learn body language
>>and facial expressions from observing others; our culture emphasises
>>personal space, shaking hands to greet, and eye contact just as some
>>examples. Blind and low vision people wonâ€™t see it, but if someone works
>>with us, its still a learned behavior; we just learn in a different way. I
>>think behaviors such as eye contact and shaking hands  are natural since I
>>learned early on as did sighted peers. Once practiced, it became more
>>automatic. I also like your comment that we should try to extinguish
>>behaviors associated with mental and cognitive behaviors. Rocking is one 
>>of
>>
>>them. Yet, I think it would be unnatural to learn something now; I could 
>>do
>>
>>it, but it would probably be stiffer and not as natural like if I learned
>>gestures. What I do though in a presentation is look around the room from
>>left to right; speakers to do this to get attention and establish
>>themselves before talking to a group; I do it even though I cannot see a
>>lot, especially toward the back of the room. I can also say yes or no with
>>my head because I was taught early on. But other nonverbals such as
>>winking, shrugging shoulders, and becconing with the hand were not taught
>>and I think I'd be a little stiffer and unnatural doing them. Still it
>>would be good to try and learn. Ashley -----Original Message----- From:
>>Bridgit Pollpeter Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:30 PM To:
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Body language and facial expressions
>>This is such a dodgy issue. It is a fine balance, and while I understand 
>>we
>>
>>shouldn't use and act in ways completely unnatural to us, we also should
>>try to follow behavior that's not indicative of other disabilities
>>associated with mental and cognitive issues. Most body language and facial
>>expressions are learned behavior. Since most of the population is sighted,
>>we learn facial expressions and body language from observing others. 
>>Babies
>>
>>and little children often mimic what they see others doing. As we grow
>>older, we tend to adopt body and facial expressions natural to us as
>>individuals, but often associated, whether conscious or unconscious,
>>through learned behavior. It stands to reason that if a person is trying 
>>to
>>
>>adopt behavior nonvisually, one would work with another person to adopt,
>>and understand, certain facial and body expressions. Just because we learn
>>the behavior, A. K. A. facial expressions and body language, through a
>>nonvisual medium, does not necessarily imply that the facial and body
>>expressions a blind person replaces with either more stoic and rigid
>>expressions or movement, or rocking or inappropriate movements, is
>>inorganic, or unnatural, to that individual. If you learn, though
>>nonvisually, a different way to move and express yourself, why does it 
>>have
>>
>>to be unnatural and arbitrary? Like sighted people, we're adopting
>>behavior, just in a different way; it's learned behavior though learned in
>>a nonvisual manner. And as I've stated earlier, I believe asking u to
>>cover, hide, something like our eyes is equal to bleaching skin or
>>straightening hair or covering accents/dialects; I don't, however, think
>>that changing certain behaviors, such as rocking, can be equated to this.
>>First, all people have physical movements often unique to them as an
>>individual whether noticeable or not. It's often instinctive and
>>unconscious. However, some movements are associated with mental, cognitive
>>or psychological disabilities/concerns. In particular, rocking is often
>>associated with developmental disabilities or abuse victims. Certain 
>>facial
>>
>>expressions are also associated with developmental disabilities and other
>>psychological issues. Obviously people who are blind, while many do have
>>multiple disabilities, don't have developmental disabilities, but because
>>some of the "blindisms" are also linked to such disabilities, I don't 
>>think
>>
>>it's a problem to expect people who are blind to correct such behavior. I
>>don't see this similar to changing, or concealing, body parts or internal
>>attributes associated with race or ethnicity, or in the case of
>>disabilities that can't be controlled such as the functioning of eyes or
>>missing limbs. In a nutshell, which I have problems fitting things into,
>>smile, my point is that body language and many facial expressions are
>>picked up through learned behavior. Whether we learn this behavior 
>>visually
>>
>>or nonvisually, it doesn't mean we're just going through the motions-
>>acting as it were. It's the same process just done nonvisually. Just as we
>>learn to read and write Braille or use adaptive technology with computers.
>>We're doing the same things, just in a different way. I also don't think 
>>we
>>
>>can compare certain changes nade , physically or internally, indicative of
>>race or ethnicity, to correcting social behavior such as body language or
>>facial expressions either linked to other disabilities or inappropriate to
>>a given situation. Sincerely, Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter Read my blog at:
>>http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/ "History is not what
>>happened; history is what was written down." The Expected One- Kathleen
>>McGowan Message: 7 Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:26:31 -0700 From: Marc 
>>Workman
>>
>><mworkman.lists at gmail.com> To: National Association of Blind Students
>>mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness versus
>>other minority groups Message-ID:
>><039F2609-C62A-4985-83E1-FBC50C239F70 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>charset=us-ascii Carly wrote, How can facial expressions and other body
>>language convey meaning if they are not naturally, ocuring? For this 
>>reason
>>
>>I don't see a reason to sort of put on nonverbal, expression if, behind it
>>there is little, meaning? I want to take Carly's point further and suggest
>>that pressuring blind people to look and act like others is in itself
>>wrong.  I'm not suggesting there is no value to it, nor am I saying it
>>should never be done, but it makes me uncomfortable. The subject of this
>>thread is comparing blindness to other minorities. I think there's a
>>parallel between pressuring blind people to look and act like everyone 
>>else
>>
>>and things that some minorities used to do and still do for similar
>>reasons.  In the past, among African Americans, there existed the practice
>>of skin bleaching and hair straightening for the purpose of appearing less
>>black and/or more white.  I can't give evidence to show how common this
>>was, but Malcolm X talked about trying to remove the kink from his hair
>>himself and finding it a physically and emotionally painful process. 
>>There
>>
>>are also surgeries performed to give people of East Asian descent more
>>"white looking" eyes and Jews more "white looking" noses.  These are just 
>>a
>>
>>couple of examples.  Pressuring minorities to adopt the dominant group's
>>style of dress, gate, diction, body language, etc also often happens. I
>>hope we can agree that this is at the very least unfortunate.  There may 
>>be
>>
>>psychological and other explanations for why this occurs, but feeling
>>pressured to get a nose job or to bleach your skin so that you look more
>>like one particular group in society is problematic to say the least.  So
>>what's the difference between these cases and pressuring a blind person to
>>adopt the behavioural habits, facial expressions, body language etc of 
>>some
>>
>>sighted people? You might say that we live in a sighted world and so we
>>have to adapt. There is something to this, but I wonder if it would be
>>equally acceptable to say we live in a white-dominated world so non-whites
>>have to adapt.  It may be the case that blind people who don't "look 
>>blind"
>>
>>are more successful and integrate better, and it also may be that
>>non-whites who look and act white are more successful and integrate 
>>better,
>>
>>but in neither case is it just that the minorities need to assume the
>>dominant groups characteristics in order to be successful. What ultimately
>>needs to happen is not that blind people begin to look and act like 
>>sighted
>>
>>people, but that we all become more accepting of differences that are
>>arbitrary and irrelevant.  Most, if not all, so called blindisms are
>>irrelevant, and I see no more reason to stamp them out than I do for 
>>trying
>>
>>to eliminate various differences in behaviour and appearance possessed by
>>other minority groups. Cheers,
>>_______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40earthlink.net
>>
>></x-flowed>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 