[nabs-l] a great article

[Joshua Lester]

That's why we shouldn't have anything to do with them.
Blessings, Joshua

On 9/7/11, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> Joshua et al:
>
> I think that some people are a bit idealistic when it comes to
> relations with the ACB.  It is important to remember that they were
> born out of opposition to the NFB and how we do things.  So, if you
> take away from them being against us, and doing things differently,
> there just isn't much left.  So, you may be expecting more than they
> can deliver.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:47 PM 9/6/2011, you wrote:
>>Arielle, it works both ways.
>>If we respect them, they need to respect us.
>>Terms like, "Tenbroek Machine," shouldn't be used to describe us, by
>>that organization.
>>I know, because I've observed that mess, from the outside, looking in.
>>I'm thankful for the NFB, and we all need to respect one another.
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>On 9/6/11, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > Chris, I'm glad you decided to share this article. While I didn't find
>> > anything in it particularly special either, I think we need to be
>> > careful not to reject a piece of writing or thought just because it
>> > happens to come from the ACB. It is true that ACB and NFB have taken
>> > different stances on some policy issues and that the two organizations
>> > have very different philosophies about leadership. However, when it
>> > comes down to it, ACB is made up of a bunch of blind folks just like
>> > us who have decided to join together to obtain support and collective
>> > advocacy. While I personally wouldn't join the ACB and prefer to stay
>> > with NFB, and I don't advocate having the two organizations unite
>> > because I think it's good for blind people to have a choice of
>> > organizations to join, I think we do owe the ACB folks some respect
>> > here.
>> > Furthermore, though many of the members of this list are already
>> > committed Federationists as Heather pointed out, some of us are still
>> > exploring what the two organizations have to offer. Please, let's not
>> > shoot down this exploration. I have been on this list for eleven years
>> > and one of the things I like best about it is that we are free to
>> > discuss our views on blindness and to examine and critique other
>> > people's ideas-even if we don't all agree with them or even if our
>> > personal views are unpopular. Stifling these thoughts and reflections
>> > is likely to do more harm than good, and, I fear, to make some folks
>> > reluctant to join us. When I was in this questioning stage myself, one
>> > of the things that pushed me to take the plunge and join NFB was the
>> > fact that I was encouraged to ask questions and to challenge NFB
>> > actions that I didn't fully understand. If we get too zealous about
>> > the superiority of NFB's views over other ways of thinking about
>> > blindness, we risk thwarting the development of some of our future
>> > leaders who are still deciding where NFB fits in their lives.
>> > Best,
>> > Arielle
>> >
>> > On 9/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Ashley,
>> >>   I didn't really mind him sharing it, either.  I'll stay, kind of.
>> >> Every once in a while, something comes up that makes all the silly
>> >> back and forth rhetoric actually worth it.  But only every once in a
>> >> while, so I'll only be on here every now and again.
>> >>   Take care,
>> >> Kirt
>> >>
>> >> On 9/5/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>> ,
>> >>> I hope you'll stay; sometimes I'm frustrated by arguing, but I just
>> >>> hit
>> >>> the
>> >>> delete key then. For spam I ignore it.
>> >>> To me, this list has been one of the best resources. As to the
>> >>> article,
>> >>> it
>> >>> had some good tips, but they were
>> >>> generic, still I did not mind him sharing it.
>> >>> Ashley
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Kirt Manwaring
>> >>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:29 AM
>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a great article
>> >>>
>> >>> Hey all,
>> >>>   It's been a while and I really don't have a lot to say, except
>> >>> there's a good reason I've stopped spending much time on here and all
>> >>> these silly debates, arguing for the sake of arguing and sparking
>> >>> controversy for controversy's sake, just don't really appeal to me
>> >>> much anymore.  I'd rather live a real life, you know?  Some of us have
>> >>> those.
>> >>>   Chris, I know you were trying to share good ways of getting involved
>> >>> in any organization.  The suggestions here are things I can use in my
>> >>> local political party, my church, the county lions' club, student
>> >>> organizations on campus, etc.  They're a bit generic and vague, and I
>> >>> suspect the people who want to be involved in any organization are
>> >>> already...well, getting involved, but I suppose the bit of practical
>> >>> advice in here can be useful to someone who wants to work in any
>> >>> established organized movement.
>> >>>   Anyways I'm tired of arguing semantics.  I'm irritated that people
>> >>> get their panties in such a twist when someone else shares an opinion
>> >>> contrary to their own.  This list is not simply for NFB propaganda,
>> >>> but, with all the assorted spam and forwards and shouting matches that
>> >>> really serve no purpose whatsoever, I find myself growing tired of it.
>> >>>   I guess this is goodbye till next time, folks.  If I ever see
>> >>> something on here worth spending my time on (I'm starting to think
>> >>> it's not really likely), I'll chime in.  In the meantime, have fun
>> >>> with the list.
>> >>>   Cheers,
>> >>> Kirt
>> >>>
>> >>> On 9/2/11, David Dodge <daviddod at buffalo.edu> wrote:
>> >>>> Heather and Chris,
>> >>>> A few things. First, Chris saying that the article he posted is a
>> >>>> great
>> >>>> article is his opinion and anyone that dislikes the article has every
>> >>>> right
>> >>>> to that opinion also. I don't think we should shun anyone for their
>> >>>> personal
>> >>>> opinion on anything.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Personally, I like making connections between organizations and
>> >>>> seeing
>> >>>> how
>> >>>> they are alike and different. I do not feel as though Chris put this
>> >>>> out
>> >>>> there to try and change anyone's core philosophy. Instead, I think he
>> >>>> meant
>> >>>> it has some basic introductory information that some people on this
>> >>>> list
>> >>>> will find useful and others wont.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Heather, I'm going to call out something specific that you said and
>> >>>> hope
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> will not be offended by my doing so. It's just its something I see a
>> >>>> lot
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> people do on a variety of listservs that I have an issue with. I
>> >>>> don't
>> >>>> think
>> >>>> we should ever try to quantify a listserv. "most people" on a certain
>> >>>> listserv "people on this listserv do or don't want to hear".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What we have to remember is we actually don't know the full extent of
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> listserv. For instance, I have given this listserv to a number of
>> >>>> friends
>> >>>> and colleagues of mine whom are not very active within NFB but love
>> >>>> this
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> the information they get. Another important thing to remember is the
>> >>>> responses we see are not necessarily indicative of the large whole on
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> listserv. I am part of some listservs that I have never responded to
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> part of some that I respond to more than I have on this one. I'll
>> >>>> stop
>> >>>> rambling, I just don't like quantifying a sample that I am unsure
>> >>>> about.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I don't feel like I've done myself justice in this response but
>> >>>> hopefully
>> >>>> it
>> >>>> gave someone, somewhere, something to think about. Haha. Have a
>> >>>> wonderful
>> >>>> weekend, everyone.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> David
>> >>>> ----------------------------------
>> >>>> David Dodge
>> >>>> Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>> >>>> State University of New York Student Assembly
>> >>>> English Major
>> >>>> University at Buffalo
>> >>>> 306 Clemens Hall
>> >>>> Buffalo, NY 14260
>> >>>> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Heather Field
>> >>>> <missheather at comcast.net>wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Chris,
>> >>>>> I can't imagine what could persuade you that the article you pasted
>> >>>>> is
>> >>>>> great. It's just a glorified list of things to do once you've
>> >>>>> established
>> >>>>> why you are in an organisation and what the organisation is trying
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> achieve. If one doesn't know the, why, of one's membership, and one
>> >>>>> doesn't
>> >>>>> know the, what the organisation does, then one will not be motivated
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> get
>> >>>>> involved.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A person who is well informed on the why and what of the ACB, a
>> >>>>> condition
>> >>>>> that doesn't develop by reading their literature incidentally,
>> >>>>> rarely
>> >>>>> discovers much consistency of philosophy or purpose, beyond opposing
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> NFB. Occasionally there is good colaboration on a state or local
>> >>>>> level,
>> >>>>> but
>> >>>>> that is not thanks to national policy, nor from diplomatic forays by
>> >>>>> either
>> >>>>> organisation. It occurs when mutual interests of local blind people
>> >>>>> can
>> >>>>> be
>> >>>>> best served by working together. In my experience, once immediate
>> >>>>> goals
>> >>>>> are
>> >>>>> achieved, while people remain friends, NFB people don't suddenly
>> >>>>> rush
>> >>>>> off
>> >>>>> and spend lots of time working with the ACB. After all, an
>> >>>>> organisation
>> >>>>> actually has to, "do", something if people are to do it with you.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I find myself wondering why, if you've got all this time to be
>> >>>>> poring
>> >>>>> through ACB literature and then editing and posting it on NFB lists,
>> >>>>> why
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> don't use it more constructively and get involved in physically
>> >>>>> making
>> >>>>> a
>> >>>>> difference with the NFB in your local area.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Chris, most of the people who frequent the NFB email lists have
>> >>>>> signed
>> >>>>> up
>> >>>>> because they're very committed members of the NFB and have made
>> >>>>> their
>> >>>>> decision based on the facts as they see them. You may find the
>> >>>>> occasional
>> >>>>> article which you think is useful. However, the fact remains that
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> two
>> >>>>> organisations differ on fundamental, philosophical and practical
>> >>>>> issues.
>> >>>>> You're not going to change anyone's mind on this list by posting to
>> >>>>> do
>> >>>>> lists. Those of us who work on the front lines of changing what it
>> >>>>> means
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> be blind have learned that it is not what one does, as demonstrated
>> >>>>> by
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> myriad different ways chapters and affiliates engage their
>> >>>>> communities
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> change what it means to be blind. It's why, one does these things.
>> >>>>> It
>> >>>>> is
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> why that colours every interaction with the public and one's fellow
>> >>>>> members.
>> >>>>> Someone who truly knows why will be involved. You can't hold them
>> >>>>> back.
>> >>>>> Telling people how, to get involved skips the, why should I
>> >>>>> question.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I'm not the moderator but I am letting you know that there are a
>> >>>>> bunch
>> >>>>> of
>> >>>>> people on this list who find your posting of ACB stuff just plain
>> >>>>> annoying.
>> >>>>> Like you, we could subscribe to the Forum if we wanted to read it.
>> >>>>> But,
>> >>>>> we
>> >>>>> don't subscribe because we don't want to read it Chris.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Do you imagine that those in charge of the liberal website Move
>> >>>>> on.orgwould post press releases from the T party and encourage
>> >>>>> subscribers
>> >>>>> to try
>> >>>>> to embrace the good bits of the ideology? We're mostly all too busy
>> >>>>> doing
>> >>>>> the real work of the NFB to bother reading the literature of the
>> >>>>> organisation who spends an inordinate amount of time and energy
>> >>>>> doing
>> >>>>> nothing more useful than trying to oppose us.
>> >>>>> By the way, when you take a published article and add anything you
>> >>>>> are
>> >>>>> breaking copyright law.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>> Heather Field
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If there was a "philosophy", or "goals" or consistent national,
>> >>>>> state
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> local consistency to learn about in the organisation from which you
>> >>>>> lifted
>> >>>>> the article, then perhaps, and only perhaps, that may have been
>> >>>>> useful.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>> >>>>> To: NABS list ; Blind Talk list ; Gary Legates
>> >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a great article
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi everyone,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>> >>>>> subscribed to both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.
>> >>>>> The Monitor, as you know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication
>> >>>>> and the Forum is the Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a
>> >>>>> great article in July's Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize
>> >>>>> your ACB Membership," giving fifteen tips on how to take
>> >>>>> advantage of all ACB (or any organization, for that matter) has
>> >>>>> to offer.  I think this could also apply to the Federation and to
>> >>>>> NABS or any other special-interest division, and is some good
>> >>>>> advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in parentheses to some
>> >>>>> parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>> >>>>> thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>> >>>>> your throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to
>> >>>>> learn about both.  Here is the article.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>> >>>>>  by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>> >>>>>  All too often, people join organizations without taking
>> >>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>> >>>>> its purpose,
>> >>>>> mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>> >>>>> lack of
>> >>>>> participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>> >>>>> forfeit what
>> >>>>> could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>> >>>>> great
>> >>>>> relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>> >>>>> that can
>> >>>>> make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>> >>>>> explore the
>> >>>>> meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>> >>>>> to assist
>> >>>>> you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>> >>>>> skills
>> >>>>> complement yours.
>> >>>>>  1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>> >>>>>  2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>> >>>>> reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>> >>>>> turn
>> >>>>> someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>> >>>>> looking
>> >>>>> for.
>> >>>>>  3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get
>> >>>>> involved.
>> >>>>>  4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>> >>>>> them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>> >>>>> observe
>> >>>>> actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>> >>>>> organization.
>> >>>>>  5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>> >>>>> chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>> >>>>>  6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state
>> >>>>> affiliate
>> >>>>> and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>> >>>>>  7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>> >>>>> on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>> >>>>> objectives.  Seek
>> >>>>> to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>> >>>>> abilities in
>> >>>>> the most effective and efficient manner.
>> >>>>>  8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>> >>>>> news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask
>> >>>>> a president
>> >>>>> or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>> >>>>>  9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by
>> >>>>> our
>> >>>>> organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to
>> >>>>> learn about
>> >>>>> useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>> >>>>> awards, and
>> >>>>> upcoming projects and events.
>> >>>>>  10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>> >>>>> needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>> >>>>> others
>> >>>>> sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>> >>>>> occupation, hobbies,
>> >>>>> health concerns and so much more.
>> >>>>>  11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to
>> >>>>> learn
>> >>>>> of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>> >>>>> organization.
>> >>>>>  12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>> >>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>> >>>>>  13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>> >>>>> such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>> >>>>> calls with
>> >>>>> the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>> >>>>> calls.
>> >>>>>  14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>> >>>>> our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>> >>>>> site that
>> >>>>> you didn't think of inquiring about.
>> >>>>>  15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>> >>>>> the same.
>> >>>>>  The more you know and the more you become involved, the more
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>> will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>> >>>>> that is
>> >>>>> continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> >>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> >>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> >>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> >>>>> nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan (President of the National
>> >>>>> Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
>> >>>>> www.icanfoundation.info for
>> >>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>> >>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>
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