[nabs-l] Advanced foreign language advice needed

Sat Aug 25 00:38:46 UTC 2012

Hello,
Can we please refrain from these 2-10 word responses?
They aren't really contributing to anything except for cluttering up our 
inbox.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Lavonya Gardner
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 4:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Advanced foreign language advice needed

No kidding

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 24, 2012, at 19:44, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> 
wrote:

> Danielle and all,
> While I generally agree with the do it your own attitude, I feel there is 
> a place for notetakers. In classes involving more visual
> input via videos slides, actions etc, a notetaker can take down those 
> notes you're missing and even describe to you what you're missing. For 
> instance in my high school spanish class students had to act out something 
> and the class guessed its action or we would be given commands in spanish 
> such as open the door or turn on a light switch and students did that. 
> This method of listening and performing the action is called total 
> physical response. In addition, my teacher showed videos and wrote on the 
> board a lot. This person starting the thread said she had a braille note 
> and I'm sure can take notes well. But its hard to follow a foreign 
> language class when you have handouts, have to hear the teacher and write 
> your notes.
> Remember that sighted students can copy from the board where as we have to 
> hear it and write it. in taking my own notes, I found that sometimes I 
> could hardly get one thing down and the prof was onto the next thing! In 
> my spanish class in high school, I used a brailler and did not take notes; 
> I had a student notetaker. It would have been too loud to braille and 
> listen to the teacher and besides there was hardly time.
>
> I do not buy the work argument because at work we are at meetings and 
> taking notes there, not trying to comprehend a new concept. Well, we might 
> be learning, but it is not a foreign language and at work you have more 
> time.
> Do you all know that most of the 8 hour day, employees really don't work? 
> They come to work, but they are not working! Why? Well, because, they 
> either cannot concentrate the whole day, get bored of the assignment and 
> go  on the internet, and some just are lazy. Even the best conscientious 
> workers will take social breaks or breaks for personal matters.
> So, a blind employee might put in an extra hour or two of work then to 
> learn or complete an assignment.
>
> In school, I think we should get accomodations if we need them. After all, 
> professors really don't verbalize everything and I learned the truth my 
> first semester at school. You may want them to verbalize everything on the 
> screen  or at least everything that is important, but they don't. They are 
> going to point to stuff or another thing I saw was talk about something 
> and not read the definition. I found a notetaker quite helpful in spanish 
> and I stick to my suggestion. Notetakers are not  for every class, but in 
> some situations its good. And, a good notetaker will copy down correctly 
> so you get the spelling of words. I did not know how to even write most of 
> the words down since it’s a foreign language.
> Other students are not expected to know how to write it either, at least 
> for a while. They copy from the board and see the pictures. By pairing the 
> picture to the verbal message, they understand the concept.
> Then they learn how to write the foreign language vocabulary.
> For instance, my teacher had a picture of the beach or restaurant and 
> pointed to certain stuff and
> described it; sometimes she translated to english; other times not as it 
> was obvious she was pointing to the oceean.
>
> Anyway, we'll all do what is best for us, but I don't think we should rule 
> out an accomodation based on philosophy or what our future might be.
>
> In general, I think students could learn better notetaking skills; I wish 
> there was a class in notetaking and study habits because it is not as 
> needed in high school as teachers teach differently, butin college 
> listening and getting the important points and putting them down in your 
> own words is important.
> If we had such a class for anyone, I think the drop out rate would 
> decrease.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Danielle Sykora
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 5:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Advanced foreign language advice needed
>
> Hi everyone,
> Yes, I agree that we should be able to take our own notes. The ability
> to take notes is a very important skill. It doesn't seem practical to
> always expect to have someone else take notes for you.
> Just my opinion,
> Danielle
>
> On 8/24/12, Lavonya Gardner <hotdancer1416 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> They have note takers for school and assistances for work. I have 1
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2012, at 17:00, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My view may not be popular -- but, it seems to me that as blind persons 
>>> we
>>> need to be able to take notes as does everybody else.  Use of a human 
>>> note
>>> taker, while it may seem expedient, isn't going to prepare you for the
>>> real world.  Unless you have a problem, in addition to blindness, most
>>> employers aren't, and shouldn't provide you with a note taker.  We need 
>>> to
>>> have the tools to study as everybody else does.
>>>
>>> I would use the Braille note to take notes in class, and worry about
>>> powerpoints etc. later.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 09:10 PM 8/21/2012, you wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> If this is a state college, if you ask for a note taker, they can't 
>>>> deny
>>>> you a note taker. If they say that is against their policy, say that is
>>>> BS and you can sue them.
>>>> If they are a private college that put you on a 504 plan the case is 
>>>> the
>>>> same. They can provide you accommodation if it isn't unreasonable.
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 6:37 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Advanced foreign language advice needed
>>>>
>>>> Aleeha,
>>>> Well, that is too bad because I think a foregin language class is one
>>>> where
>>>> a notetaker would be very  beneficial.
>>>> If you feel you miss material in class, you can always go to the
>>>> professor's
>>>> office hours. In my experience, they are generally real willing to help
>>>> and
>>>> repeat or clarify any lecture material.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: aleeha dudley
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Advanced foreign language advice needed
>>>>
>>>> I use a note taker in science classes and am not ashamed to say it. The
>>>> university does not provide these services for foreign language 
>>>> classes.
>>>> Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Aleeha Dudley
>>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
>>>> Changing what it means to be blind
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>>>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aleeha,
>>>>> Sounds like a handful. I would not be able to read notes on a laptop,
>>>>> take notes and listen at the same time even if it was in english!
>>>>> What teaching style does she use? I only took foreign language in high
>>>>> school; I would not want to try in college due to no braille
>>>>> availability. In high school I was accomodated with hard copy braille
>>>>> and braille texts which was vital to my success; college you have to 
>>>>> do
>>>>> auditorily.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'd suggest is not reading the class notes in class. Do you need 
>>>>> to
>>>>> read them for a worksheet or group activity? If so, could someone else
>>>>> read them with you? Sometimes my professors have a study guide but I
>>>>> follow auditorily since I ask the professor to speak out the questions
>>>>> before going over them. If in a group of students, I try and get them 
>>>>> to
>>>>> read the handout to me so I can participate.
>>>>> Instead of in class, get any handouts ahead of time and read them. If
>>>>> you feel you need them in class, is it possible to put the handout 
>>>>> file
>>>>> on your braille note and switch files from your notes and class notes?
>>>>>
>>>>> Another idea which might be quicker for accessing notes is to emboss 
>>>>> the
>>>>> class notes. Do you have an embosser of yours or the schools?
>>>>> I find that i can  skim a hard copy document faster than a braille
>>>>> display file.
>>>>> Also recording class might help. Another idea, which many would 
>>>>> disagree
>>>>> with, is have a notetaker. Your school should provide a notetaker upon
>>>>> request for you. Languages classes go fast and I think it would be 
>>>>> hard
>>>>> to take notes as fast as they go especially when other students can 
>>>>> copy
>>>>> notes from the board or slide at their pace and you have to do it
>>>>> right as the teacher talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH,
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: aleeha dudley
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 10:08 AM
>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Advanced foreign language advice needed
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if any of you have taken 300 level foreign language
>>>>> classes and if so, how did you keep track of all that is happening in
>>>>> the class? I am finding it difficult to read the class notes on my
>>>>> laptop, take my own notes on my Braillenote apex, and also try to
>>>>> comprehend what the instructor is saying since it is all in Spanish. 
>>>>> Let
>>>>> me know what you think. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Aleeha Dudley
>>>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students
>>>>> Changing what it means to be blind
>>>
>>>
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>
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