[nabs-l] ID's and Voting

Lavonya Gardner hotdancer1416 at gmail.com
Tue Aug 28 18:04:25 UTC 2012 

I have to have my eyes closed, do to autism. They gave me a lot of crap about that. After I freaked out, because they touched me, they let me keep my shades on.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 28, 2012, at 12:59, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Why does it matter if your eyes are open for an ID photo, or if you
> are wearing sunglasses? Is it a legal issue or are  some DMV workers
> just obsessed with getting an attractive picture?
> Arielle
> 
> On 8/28/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> The way I write my signature is Place my finger on the line, place my pen
>> next to my finger, lift my finger, ask someone if the pen is in the right
>> place and agust to what they say, then if I can I place my finger back on
>> the paper and then I write my signature strait from my finger. I have a
>> signature that doesn't need me to lift my pen from the paper, so that is
>> really good. I also just use my first name as my signature only. (I'm not
>> sure if people know this, but your signature doesn't need to be your name,
>> it can be a star or a picture of some kind). I've been told that my
>> signature is super hard to copy and it is still readable. I use a mixture of
>> 
>> cursive and the typical letters. I sat down with my living skills instructor
>> 
>> one day and we experimented with signatures and found the thing that would
>> be the fastest, most readable and the best reproducible, so that is what I
>> now use. Also, I only write capitals, because they are the easiest to write
>> 
>> for me.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 10:15 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] ID's and Voting
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I think it is fair for a blind person to need to get a state ID card
>> or non-driving license. Going to the DMV sucks but it sucks for
>> sighted people too. Having some kind of legal identification is just
>> part of living in this country as an adult and enables us to
>> participate in all the same activities as those with drivers'
>> licenses, including flying on airplanes and passing the age test to
>> buy alcohol (I don't think student ID is acceptable for either of
>> these things, whether you are sighted or blind). I do, however, agree
>> that requiring a blind person to give a signature that matches one on
>> file is probably unfair even if it is not intended to be
>> discriminatory. A blind person could get around this by signing with a
>> stamp, though I'm not sure how long those last.
>> Arielle
>> On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hm my main concern with the IDs is that people have to get to the DMV
>>> somehow.  In places like Nashville, that's not exactly straightforward.
>>> I
>>> guess they could take a cab?  It just sucks because, I think before,
>>> people
>>> could just use a student ID (speaking about our own age group).  Now, the
>>> states have made it more difficult than it already was.
>>> 
>>> Rhode Island has an interesting approach to this (and someone correct me
>>> if
>>> I'm wrong).  If you don't have a state ID on you at the polling place,
>>> you
>>> can sign an affidavit of identity, which basically just certifies that
>>> you
>>> are who you say you are.  I like this idea (well, except for the whole
>>> signature thing, which I had never thought about).
>>> 
>>> http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Cynthia Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Stephanie:
>>>> 
>>>> This is great informaition. Thanks for going so much in depth.
>>>> 
>>>> The ID issue is the easiest. I don't know of a state that doesn't
>>>> offer a nondriving photo ID. This can be obtained wherever you would
>>>> go to get your driver's license. It looks just like and contains all
>>>> of the information that a driver's license contains. It is a
>>>> legitimate form of ID. I had no problems at the precincts in NC when I
>>>> showed my photo ID.
>>>> 
>>>> Where ID's relate to my concern is that when you get your ID, you have
>>>> to sign the bottom. The DMV that I went to had an electronic pad that
>>>> you sign with a stylus. I typically like to place a finger down on a
>>>> paper to orient myself before I write my signature. But touching the
>>>> electronic pad made a finger print. After a few unsuccessful tries,
>>>> the agent gave me an index card, and they elected to process my
>>>> signature the old way. This was helpful, but even though I have been
>>>> signing my name since I was 7, I really don't have any way of knowing
>>>> if I have signed my name exactly the way it looks on my state ID; this
>>>> signature is kept on file with the state so they don't actually have
>>>> to look at your ID to see it. I know that the intentions of this are
>>>> good and in place to prevent voter fraud, but as a blind person, I
>>>> feel like it pretty much gives me no choice but to find 2 witnesses to
>>>> sign my ballot and varify my signature, and I think that is unfair
>>>> since a sighted person can fill out their ballot independently and
>>>> forego the long precinct lines since they are located far and few
>>>> between due to the mailed-out ballots being the primary method used
>>>> for voting.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm sure the membership committee will look at all of this information
>>>> and decide if this call is a good idea, which I think we will, and we
>>>> will work to find appropriate people to conduct the call. Thanks so
>>>> much for the information. It was really great to read.
>>>> 
>>>> And, I go by Cindy so that's fine.
>>>> 
>>>> Cindy
>>>> 
>>>> On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> This website is very informative.  The following link takes you to a
>>>>> page
>>>>> where they have links to several laws relevant to people with
>>>> disabilities.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Laws
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>>>    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Heh, I mean Cynthia, sorry!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>>>>    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm excited to see that other people support the idea of getting
>>>>>>> involved
>>>>>>> but sad to admit that it's a problem.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My story is this:  In 2008, I went for early voting at one of the
>>>>>>> designated places in Nashville.  When it was my turn, they
>>>>>>> designated
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> polling machine to me.  Before I began the process, I asked about
>>>>>>> assisted
>>>>>>> voting.  Maybe I should have asked about accessible polling
>>>>>>> machines?
>>>>>>> Anyway, he just said he'd have to help me and that was the only
>>>>>>> option
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> had.  I turned him down and went through the process myself (I do
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> vision).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It seems that the voting issues fall into a few categories:
>>>>>>> 1) lack of knowledge of rights/responsibilities on behalf of the
>>>>>>> voter
>>>>>>> 2) lack of training and knowledge of polling staff
>>>>>>> 3) lack of a functioning accessible voting machine on site
>>>>>>> 4) difficult-to-follow tutorials/instructions for the accessible
>>>> machine
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For me, numbers 1 and 2 seem to be the biggest problems.  How do we
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> the word out and how do we insure that the people at the polling
>>>>>>> places
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> trained and that there is a funcitoning machine available?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I like the idea about having demos.  Barring that, would it be
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> to record a tutorial and post it online?  Maybe by someone who has
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> recently?  I've heard that the tutorial provided at the polling
>>>>>>> place
>>>> is
>>>>>>> often not straightforward or easy to follow and that a blind user
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> a better job haha
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think we should at the very least inform people of their rights.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think finding the federal law wouldn't be too hard, but some rules
>>>>>>> vary
>>>>>>> state by state.  I'm having trouble tracking down the information
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> TN,
>>>>>>> for example.  Anyway, here is the federal law (I think).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act*
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 1984
>>>>>>> generally requires polling places across the United States to be
>>>>>>> physically
>>>>>>> accessible to people with disabilities for federal elections. Where
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> accessible location is available to serve as a polling place, a
>>>>>>> political
>>>>>>> subdivision must provide an alternate means of casting a ballot on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> of the election. This law also requires states to make available
>>>>>>> registration and voting aids for disabled and elderly voters,
>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>> information by TTYs (also known as TDDs) or similar devices. For
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> information, contact:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> U.S. Department of Justice
>>>>>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>>>>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>>>>>>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>>>>>>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *National Voter Registration Act*
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The National Voter Registration Act of 1993, also known as the
>>>>>>> "Motor
>>>>>>> Voter Act," makes it easier for all Americans to exercise their
>>>>>>> fundamental
>>>>>>> right to vote. One of the basic purposes of the Act is to increase
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> historically low registration rates of minorities and persons with
>>>>>>> disabilities that have resulted from discrimination. The Motor Voter
>>>> Act
>>>>>>> requires all offices of State-funded programs that are primarily
>>>> engaged
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> providing services to persons with disabilities to provide all
>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>> applicants with voter registration forms, to assist them in
>>>>>>> completing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> forms, and to transmit completed forms to the appropriate State
>>>>>>> official.
>>>>>>> For more information, contact:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> U.S. Department of Justice
>>>>>>> Civil Rights Division
>>>>>>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>>>>>>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>>>>>>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It seems that the NFB has a lot of lawyers.  Is it possible for us
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> someone trained in law to help us with this one?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Here is another good resource, the Department of Justice:
>>>>>>> http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/drs/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One question I have is, why aren't ALL voting machines accessible?
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> seems like this is more of a software issue.  Would it not be
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> write accessible software to be used on all machines?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One other thing is that we should encourage people to file a
>>>>>>> complaint
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> they have these aforementioned problems this year and in the future.
>>>> We
>>>>>>> (the NFB) should provide information on that, as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> While I think this is a concern for the whole NFB on a national
>>>>>>> level,
>>>> I
>>>>>>> think as students, we are in a good spot to target new voters and
>>>>>>> college
>>>>>>> students who have not voted before.  Maybe we could draft a brochure
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> rights and responsibilities and general information (maybe even for
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> who aren't blind but are disabled?) and make sure it gets
>>>>>>> distributed
>>>> at
>>>>>>> voter registration drives going on campus.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cindy also makes a good point about getting to the voting place.
>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>> this will become even more difficult in many states that require
>>>>>>> valid
>>>>>>> state IDs (like TN, AL, AR, etc.).  How should we deal with this?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>>>>>    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Cynthia Bennett
>>>>>>> <clb5590 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Stephanie:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That is a great idea. I had a similar experience as Josh as I voted
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> my first election. They were the 2008 primaries, and I was very
>>>>>>>> excited. When the machine did not work, I asked a poll worker to
>>>>>>>> assist me. They filled in the ballot as I wished, but the worker
>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> make some comments about their preference on a politician. This
>>>>>>>> occured when I said that I did not want to vote for a particular
>>>>>>>> office, because I was unfamiliar with any of the candidates. I said
>>>>>>>> something like, "I don't want to fill in anything for this," and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> worker responded with "Oh, I heard that ___ is pretty good. Do you
>>>>>>>> want me to fill in his/her name?" I chose to still not vote for
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> particular office. This practice is illegal, and I chose not to say
>>>>>>>> anything about it. But I do think that an informational call about
>>>>>>>> rights and accessible voting machines would be awesome.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>> each state is a little different, but information about federal
>>>>>>>> mandates on the presence of accessible voting machines/rights and
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> typical patterns in accessible voting in states would be great. For
>>>>>>>> example, Washington conducts mail ballots. There are a few
>>>>>>>> precincts
>>>>>>>> around town, but if you work in a neighborhood in which it takes a
>>>>>>>> while to get to a precinct, you are at a disadvantage as a blind
>>>>>>>> person. So, you can either take off work and use public
>>>>>>>> transportation
>>>>>>>> to navigate to one of the few and very busy precincts and wait in a
>>>>>>>> 3-hour line, or you can find a reader and disclose your voting
>>>>>>>> preferences. The other animal in this issue is that if you choose
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> get a reader to fill out your signature does not match the
>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>> on your state ID which is kept on file, then your ballot can be
>>>>>>>> deemed
>>>>>>>> as false and not counted. As a blind person, I do the best I can
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> my signature, but I do think that even the most ambitious blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> are at a disadvantage when having to match a signature, and our
>>>>>>>> ballots could not be counted, and we may not hear about it, or we
>>>>>>>> would learn of it after elections are closed. If we are afraid that
>>>>>>>> our signature may not match that of our state ID, then we can have
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> witnesses sign. But that is 2 more people that have to see my
>>>>>>>> ballot.
>>>>>>>> I do not think that this practice is common within the states, and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> would definitely not like my experience to dominate the nature of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> call, but I wanted to relay it to show that I think this is a very
>>>>>>>> good idea. I would personally like some professional/legal
>>>>>>>> advice/legal suggestions on how this can be changed.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So, if you have any suggestions on people to conduct this call, or
>>>>>>>> resources for where this information can be found, please share it.
>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>> not, the membership committee will certainly take the initiative to
>>>>>>>> conduct an informative call if we do in fact decide to pursue this
>>>>>>>> topic. But I wanted to make sure that since you made the
>>>>>>>> suggestion,
>>>>>>>> you are welcome to provide suggestions on people to conduct the
>>>>>>>> call.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I know that someone comes to each NC state convention with an
>>>>>>>> accessible voting machine to show in the exhibit hall. During this
>>>>>>>> time, people can vote in a fake election and orient themselves to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> machine. I am not sure if NC is still doing this since it has been
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> few years since the accessible machines were introduced, but I
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> there is still a need for outreach about accessible voting.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Keep the good membership call suggestions coming!
>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 8/27/12, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi, Stephanie!
>>>>>>>>> That's a great idea!
>>>>>>>>> I went to my voting site, earlier this year, and the machine
>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>> My Disability Rights person that works for the governor, here
>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>> he'd come
>>>>>>>>> down, to show them how to work it, but he never showed up!
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>>>> behalf
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> Stephanie DeLuca [sjhhirst at gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:53 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Membership Call Survey
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I think a discussion on voting as people with disabilities would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> good.
>>>>>>>>> Since a lot of people are on college campuses, it'd be a good
>>>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>>>>> get involved with informing people with disabilities (mainly VI)
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> rights and responsibilities for voting.  I've been to/worked at
>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>> voter registration drives, and I have NEVER seen information on
>>>>>>>>> voting
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> you have a disability.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>> As you are probably already aware, NABS conducts monthly
>>>>>>>>>> membership
>>>>>>>> calls.
>>>>>>>>>> In order to get this school year started we are currently
>>>>>>>>>> seeking
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> input on what topics you would like to see us cover this year.
>>>>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>>> either reply directly to this thread with your suggestions or
>>>>>>>>>> mail
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>> directly to
>>>>>>>>>> Nabs.membership at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>> The NABS membership Committee
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Cynthia Bennett
>>>>>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 828.989.5383
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Cynthia Bennett
>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>> 
>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>> 828.989.5383
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
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>> 
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