[nabs-l] ID's and Voting

Misty Dawn Bradley mistydbradley at gmail.com
Tue Aug 28 19:51:25 UTC 2012 

Hi,
I usually just sign as best as I can. It usually does not look good, but I 
just try to do it. I have someone show me where to sign, or I use a 
signature guide that they can place on the paper.

Misty



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] ID's and Voting


> One problem with a stamp is that if it is stolen, the person posessing it 
> has your official signature.  I know each of us has our
> own set of strengths, but I wouldn't think memorizing how to write a 
> signature would be all that hard for most of us.  It does
> take a bit of practice, I grant you that.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 23:15:47 -0600, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>I think it is fair for a blind person to need to get a state ID card
>>or non-driving license. Going to the DMV sucks but it sucks for
>>sighted people too. Having some kind of legal identification is just
>>part of living in this country as an adult and enables us to
>>participate in all the same activities as those with drivers'
>>licenses, including flying on airplanes and passing the age test to
>>buy alcohol (I don't think student ID is acceptable for either of
>>these things, whether you are sighted or blind). I do, however, agree
>>that requiring a blind person to give a signature that matches one on
>>file is probably unfair even if it is not intended to be
>>discriminatory. A blind person could get around this by signing with a
>>stamp, though I'm not sure how long those last.
>>Arielle
>>On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hm my main concern with the IDs is that people have to get to the DMV
>>> somehow.  In places like Nashville, that's not exactly straightforward. 
>>> I
>>> guess they could take a cab?  It just sucks because, I think before, 
>>> people
>>> could just use a student ID (speaking about our own age group).  Now, 
>>> the
>>> states have made it more difficult than it already was.
>>>
>>> Rhode Island has an interesting approach to this (and someone correct me 
>>> if
>>> I'm wrong).  If you don't have a state ID on you at the polling place, 
>>> you
>>> can sign an affidavit of identity, which basically just certifies that 
>>> you
>>> are who you say you are.  I like this idea (well, except for the whole
>>> signature thing, which I had never thought about).
>>>
>>> http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Cynthia Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephanie:
>>>>
>>>> This is great informaition. Thanks for going so much in depth.
>>>>
>>>> The ID issue is the easiest. I don't know of a state that doesn't
>>>> offer a nondriving photo ID. This can be obtained wherever you would
>>>> go to get your driver's license. It looks just like and contains all
>>>> of the information that a driver's license contains. It is a
>>>> legitimate form of ID. I had no problems at the precincts in NC when I
>>>> showed my photo ID.
>>>>
>>>> Where ID's relate to my concern is that when you get your ID, you have
>>>> to sign the bottom. The DMV that I went to had an electronic pad that
>>>> you sign with a stylus. I typically like to place a finger down on a
>>>> paper to orient myself before I write my signature. But touching the
>>>> electronic pad made a finger print. After a few unsuccessful tries,
>>>> the agent gave me an index card, and they elected to process my
>>>> signature the old way. This was helpful, but even though I have been
>>>> signing my name since I was 7, I really don't have any way of knowing
>>>> if I have signed my name exactly the way it looks on my state ID; this
>>>> signature is kept on file with the state so they don't actually have
>>>> to look at your ID to see it. I know that the intentions of this are
>>>> good and in place to prevent voter fraud, but as a blind person, I
>>>> feel like it pretty much gives me no choice but to find 2 witnesses to
>>>> sign my ballot and varify my signature, and I think that is unfair
>>>> since a sighted person can fill out their ballot independently and
>>>> forego the long precinct lines since they are located far and few
>>>> between due to the mailed-out ballots being the primary method used
>>>> for voting.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure the membership committee will look at all of this information
>>>> and decide if this call is a good idea, which I think we will, and we
>>>> will work to find appropriate people to conduct the call. Thanks so
>>>> much for the information. It was really great to read.
>>>>
>>>> And, I go by Cindy so that's fine.
>>>>
>>>> Cindy
>>>>
>>>> On 8/27/12, Stephanie H. DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > This website is very informative.  The following link takes you to a
>>>> > page
>>>> > where they have links to several laws relevant to people with
>>>> disabilities.
>>>> >
>>>> > http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Laws
>>>> >
>>>> > In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>> >     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>>>> > <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Heh, I mean Cynthia, sorry!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>> >>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Stephanie H. DeLuca
>>>> >> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> I'm excited to see that other people support the idea of getting
>>>> >>> involved
>>>> >>> but sad to admit that it's a problem.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> My story is this:  In 2008, I went for early voting at one of the
>>>> >>> designated places in Nashville.  When it was my turn, they 
>>>> >>> designated
>>>> >>> a
>>>> >>> polling machine to me.  Before I began the process, I asked about
>>>> >>> assisted
>>>> >>> voting.  Maybe I should have asked about accessible polling 
>>>> >>> machines?
>>>> >>>  Anyway, he just said he'd have to help me and that was the only
>>>> >>> option
>>>> >>> I
>>>> >>> had.  I turned him down and went through the process myself (I do
>>>> >>> have
>>>> >>> some
>>>> >>> vision).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> It seems that the voting issues fall into a few categories:
>>>> >>> 1) lack of knowledge of rights/responsibilities on behalf of the
>>>> >>> voter
>>>> >>> 2) lack of training and knowledge of polling staff
>>>> >>> 3) lack of a functioning accessible voting machine on site
>>>> >>> 4) difficult-to-follow tutorials/instructions for the accessible
>>>> machine
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> For me, numbers 1 and 2 seem to be the biggest problems.  How do we
>>>> >>> get
>>>> >>> the word out and how do we insure that the people at the polling
>>>> >>> places
>>>> >>> are
>>>> >>> trained and that there is a funcitoning machine available?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I like the idea about having demos.  Barring that, would it be
>>>> >>> possible
>>>> >>> to record a tutorial and post it online?  Maybe by someone who has
>>>> >>> used
>>>> >>> it
>>>> >>> recently?  I've heard that the tutorial provided at the polling 
>>>> >>> place
>>>> is
>>>> >>> often not straightforward or easy to follow and that a blind user
>>>> >>> could
>>>> >>> do
>>>> >>> a better job haha
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I think we should at the very least inform people of their rights. 
>>>> >>> I
>>>> >>> think finding the federal law wouldn't be too hard, but some rules
>>>> >>> vary
>>>> >>> state by state.  I'm having trouble tracking down the information 
>>>> >>> for
>>>> >>> TN,
>>>> >>> for example.  Anyway, here is the federal law (I think).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> *Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act*
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The Voting Accessibility for the Elderly and Handicapped Act of 
>>>> >>> 1984
>>>> >>> generally requires polling places across the United States to be
>>>> >>> physically
>>>> >>> accessible to people with disabilities for federal elections. Where
>>>> >>> no
>>>> >>> accessible location is available to serve as a polling place, a
>>>> >>> political
>>>> >>> subdivision must provide an alternate means of casting a ballot on
>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> day
>>>> >>> of the election. This law also requires states to make available
>>>> >>> registration and voting aids for disabled and elderly voters,
>>>> >>> including
>>>> >>> information by TTYs (also known as TDDs) or similar devices. For 
>>>> >>> more
>>>> >>> information, contact:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice
>>>> >>> Civil Rights Division
>>>> >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>>>> >>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>>>> >>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> *National Voter Registration Act*
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The National Voter Registration Act of 1993, also known as the 
>>>> >>> "Motor
>>>> >>> Voter Act," makes it easier for all Americans to exercise their
>>>> >>> fundamental
>>>> >>> right to vote. One of the basic purposes of the Act is to increase
>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> historically low registration rates of minorities and persons with
>>>> >>> disabilities that have resulted from discrimination. The Motor 
>>>> >>> Voter
>>>> Act
>>>> >>> requires all offices of State-funded programs that are primarily
>>>> engaged
>>>> >>> in
>>>> >>> providing services to persons with disabilities to provide all
>>>> >>> program
>>>> >>> applicants with voter registration forms, to assist them in
>>>> >>> completing
>>>> >>> the
>>>> >>> forms, and to transmit completed forms to the appropriate State
>>>> >>> official.
>>>> >>> For more information, contact:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> U.S. Department of Justice
>>>> >>> Civil Rights Division
>>>> >>> 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
>>>> >>> Voting Section - 1800 G
>>>> >>> Washington, D.C. 20530
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> www.usdoj.gov/crt/voting
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> (800) 253-3931 (voice/TTY)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> It seems that the NFB has a lot of lawyers.  Is it possible for us 
>>>> >>> to
>>>> >>> get
>>>> >>> someone trained in law to help us with this one?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Here is another good resource, the Department of Justice:
>>>> >>> http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/drs/
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> One question I have is, why aren't ALL voting machines accessible?
>>>> >>> It
>>>> >>> seems like this is more of a software issue.  Would it not be
>>>> >>> possible
>>>> >>> to
>>>> >>> write accessible software to be used on all machines?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> One other thing is that we should encourage people to file a
>>>> >>> complaint
>>>> >>> if
>>>> >>> they have these aforementioned problems this year and in the 
>>>> >>> future.
>>>>  We
>>>> >>> (the NFB) should provide information on that, as well.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> While I think this is a concern for the whole NFB on a national
>>>> >>> level,
>>>> I
>>>> >>> think as students, we are in a good spot to target new voters and
>>>> >>> college
>>>> >>> students who have not voted before.  Maybe we could draft a 
>>>> >>> brochure
>>>> >>> about
>>>> >>> rights and responsibilities and general information (maybe even for
>>>> >>> people
>>>> >>> who aren't blind but are disabled?) and make sure it gets 
>>>> >>> distributed
>>>> at
>>>> >>> voter registration drives going on campus.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Cindy also makes a good point about getting to the voting place.
>>>> >>> Also,
>>>> >>> this will become even more difficult in many states that require
>>>> >>> valid
>>>> >>> state IDs (like TN, AL, AR, etc.).  How should we deal with this?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>>>> >>>     ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Cynthia Bennett
>>>> >>> <clb5590 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Stephanie:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> That is a great idea. I had a similar experience as Josh as I 
>>>> >>>> voted
>>>> >>>> in
>>>> >>>> my first election. They were the 2008 primaries, and I was very
>>>> >>>> excited. When the machine did not work, I asked a poll worker to
>>>> >>>> assist me. They filled in the ballot as I wished, but the worker 
>>>> >>>> did
>>>> >>>> make some comments about their preference on a politician. This
>>>> >>>> occured when I said that I did not want to vote for a particular
>>>> >>>> office, because I was unfamiliar with any of the candidates. I 
>>>> >>>> said
>>>> >>>> something like, "I don't want to fill in anything for this," and 
>>>> >>>> the
>>>> >>>> worker responded with "Oh, I heard that ___ is pretty good. Do you
>>>> >>>> want me to fill in his/her name?" I chose to still not vote for 
>>>> >>>> that
>>>> >>>> particular office. This practice is illegal, and I chose not to 
>>>> >>>> say
>>>> >>>> anything about it. But I do think that an informational call about
>>>> >>>> rights and accessible voting machines would be awesome.
>>>> >>>> Unfortunately,
>>>> >>>> each state is a little different, but information about federal
>>>> >>>> mandates on the presence of accessible voting machines/rights and
>>>> >>>> some
>>>> >>>> typical patterns in accessible voting in states would be great. 
>>>> >>>> For
>>>> >>>> example, Washington conducts mail ballots. There are a few 
>>>> >>>> precincts
>>>> >>>> around town, but if you work in a neighborhood in which it takes a
>>>> >>>> while to get to a precinct, you are at a disadvantage as a blind
>>>> >>>> person. So, you can either take off work and use public
>>>> >>>> transportation
>>>> >>>> to navigate to one of the few and very busy precincts and wait in 
>>>> >>>> a
>>>> >>>> 3-hour line, or you can find a reader and disclose your voting
>>>> >>>> preferences. The other animal in this issue is that if you choose 
>>>> >>>> to
>>>> >>>> get a reader to fill out your signature does not match the 
>>>> >>>> signature
>>>> >>>> on your state ID which is kept on file, then your ballot can be
>>>> >>>> deemed
>>>> >>>> as false and not counted. As a blind person, I do the best I can
>>>> >>>> with
>>>> >>>> my signature, but I do think that even the most ambitious blind
>>>> >>>> people
>>>> >>>> are at a disadvantage when having to match a signature, and our
>>>> >>>> ballots could not be counted, and we may not hear about it, or we
>>>> >>>> would learn of it after elections are closed. If we are afraid 
>>>> >>>> that
>>>> >>>> our signature may not match that of our state ID, then we can have 
>>>> >>>> 2
>>>> >>>> witnesses sign. But that is 2 more people that have to see my
>>>> >>>> ballot.
>>>> >>>> I do not think that this practice is common within the states, and 
>>>> >>>> I
>>>> >>>> would definitely not like my experience to dominate the nature of
>>>> >>>> the
>>>> >>>> call, but I wanted to relay it to show that I think this is a very
>>>> >>>> good idea. I would personally like some professional/legal
>>>> >>>> advice/legal suggestions on how this can be changed.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So, if you have any suggestions on people to conduct this call, or
>>>> >>>> resources for where this information can be found, please share 
>>>> >>>> it.
>>>> >>>> If
>>>> >>>> not, the membership committee will certainly take the initiative 
>>>> >>>> to
>>>> >>>> conduct an informative call if we do in fact decide to pursue this
>>>> >>>> topic. But I wanted to make sure that since you made the 
>>>> >>>> suggestion,
>>>> >>>> you are welcome to provide suggestions on people to conduct the
>>>> >>>> call.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I know that someone comes to each NC state convention with an
>>>> >>>> accessible voting machine to show in the exhibit hall. During this
>>>> >>>> time, people can vote in a fake election and orient themselves to
>>>> >>>> the
>>>> >>>> machine. I am not sure if NC is still doing this since it has been 
>>>> >>>> a
>>>> >>>> few years since the accessible machines were introduced, but I 
>>>> >>>> think
>>>> >>>> there is still a need for outreach about accessible voting.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Keep the good membership call suggestions coming!
>>>> >>>> Cindy
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On 8/27/12, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>> > Hi, Stephanie!
>>>> >>>> > That's a great idea!
>>>> >>>> > I went to my voting site, earlier this year, and the machine
>>>> >>>> > didn't
>>>> >>>> work.
>>>> >>>> > My Disability Rights person that works for the governor, here 
>>>> >>>> > said
>>>> >>>> he'd come
>>>> >>>> > down, to show them how to work it, but he never showed up!
>>>> >>>> > Thanks, Joshua
>>>> >>>> > ________________________________________
>>>> >>>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on
>>>> behalf
>>>> >>>> of
>>>> >>>> > Stephanie DeLuca [sjhhirst at gmail.com]
>>>> >>>> > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 2:53 PM
>>>> >>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Membership Call Survey
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > I think a discussion on voting as people with disabilities would
>>>> >>>> > be
>>>> >>>> good.
>>>> >>>> > Since a lot of people are on college campuses, it'd be a good
>>>> >>>> opportunity to
>>>> >>>> > get involved with informing people with disabilities (mainly VI)
>>>> >>>> > about
>>>> >>>> > rights and responsibilities for voting.  I've been to/worked at
>>>> >>>> > several
>>>> >>>> > voter registration drives, and I have NEVER seen information on
>>>> >>>> > voting
>>>> >>>> if
>>>> >>>> > you have a disability.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > On Aug 27, 2012, at 2:32 PM, Cody Bair <codyjbair at yahoo.com>
>>>> >>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> >> Hi All,
>>>> >>>> >> As you are probably already aware, NABS conducts monthly
>>>> >>>> >> membership
>>>> >>>> calls.
>>>> >>>> >> In order to get this school year started we are currently 
>>>> >>>> >> seeking
>>>> >>>> >> your
>>>> >>>> >> input on what topics you would like to see us cover this year.
>>>> >>>> >> Please
>>>> >>>> >> either reply directly to this thread with your suggestions or
>>>> >>>> >> mail
>>>> >>>> them
>>>> >>>> >> directly to
>>>> >>>> >> Nabs.membership at gmail.com
>>>> >>>> >> Sincerely,
>>>> >>>> >> The NABS membership Committee
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> >>>> >> for
>>>> >>>> >> nabs-l:
>>>> >>>> >>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> Cynthia Bennett
>>>> >>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>> >>>> 828.989.5383
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cynthia Bennett
>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>
>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>> 828.989.5383
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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